2679: The 10 BIGGEST Gym Mistakes That are Killing Your Gains & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2679: The 10 BIGGEST Gym Mistakes That Are Killing Your Gains & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Release Date: September 6, 2025

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on the ten most common gym mistakes that are holding people back from making progress in the gym. The hosts break down each mistake, clarify how they manifest, and give real-life coaching to listeners who call in with their struggles, offering actionable strategies and mindset shifts. The show’s dual mission is to debunk fitness myths and provide honest, science-based advice that supports health and sustainable results.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Train Too Hard: Over-Training

[02:53]

• Many believe going all out every session equals more results, but exercise is a stressor; you adapt by recovering, not just surviving the stress.
• Key Avatars: Type A executives, young ambitious lifters, those with self-hate tendencies, and people whose life stress makes moderate workouts excessive for them.
• Quote:

  “The harder you push, the more you get out...except in fitness. The harder you grind, the better the results is not true here.” – Adam [05:59]

2. Don’t Train Hard Enough: Under-Training

[07:58]

• Equally problematic is lack of consistency or fear of pushing oneself.
• Doing the same routine for years (e.g., same weights, same classes) means you’re active but not gaining.
• Indicator: Lack of progression in strength and reps signals need to adjust intensity or consistency.
• Quote:

  “If your strength isn’t going up, you might be doing too much or not enough.” – Sal [08:45]

3. Neglecting Strength as a Foundation

[11:09]

• Strength should be the base for most people’s routines—creates improvements in aesthetics, metabolism, health, and fat loss.
• Chasing sweat/burn or cutting rest sabotages real strength progress.
• Quote:

  “Strength training produces most of those results—or at least gives you the best results bang for your buck by far.” – Sal [12:10]

4. Not Following Proper Workout Programming

[13:21]

• Random machine use or targeting “trouble spots” isn’t strategic.
• Quality programming (even if basic) vastly outperforms piecemeal workouts.
• Personal anecdote about Sal’s mom, illustrating common pitfalls.

5. Avoiding “The Best Lifts”

[15:45]

• Core compound movements (squat, deadlift, overhead press, row) yield the best progress for effort.
• Quote:

  “If you skip those best lifts, you’re basically trying to do this on extra hard mode...most people want results for the effort they put in.” – Sal [16:22]

6. Not Resting Long Enough Between Sets

[18:15]

• The rest interval, not just the exercise, distinguishes strength training.
• Short rest turns strength training into endurance work, which isn’t optimal for muscle/strength gains.
• Suggested rest: 1.5–3 minutes.
• Quote:

  “Rest periods make strength training strength training, more than the exercises do.” – Sal [18:28]
  “I mastered the art of conversation…so they don’t realize that we’re resting for two or three minutes.” – Sal [20:03]

7. Not Giving Yourself Grace & Patience

[20:31]

• Failure is part of the lifelong journey; relentless self-shame kills long-term consistency.
• Progress is slow; unrealistic timelines set people up for disappointment and quitting.
• Quote:

  “Master trainers are master grace givers.” – Sal [22:38]

8. Not Trying Different Rep Ranges

[22:38]

• Staying in a rep range stalls gains—rotate across low, medium, and high rep schemes over time.
• Manipulate rest and tempo as “levers,” not just exercise selection.
• Quote:

  “Everybody has their favorite rep range…explore the full breadth.” – Sal [23:13]

9. Skipping Technique & Skill Practice

[24:11]

• Proper technique is non-negotiable; the difference in results and injury risk is dramatic.
• Exercises are skills—treat them as such for higher return.
• Quote:

  “Don’t treat them just like a way to work a body part.” – Sal [25:16]

10. Skipping Unfavorite Body Parts

[26:42]

• Training the whole body supports development everywhere—skipping legs, arms, or chest leads to imbalances.
• Symmetry is more attractive and healthier than sheer size.
• Studies show working one limb affects the other; overall balance is key.
• Quote:

  “Balance and symmetry is everything—not just aesthetics, it displays health, mobility, and performance.” – Sal [29:00]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Overtraining Personalities

“Type A executive…they think the harder they go, the better the results. If they don’t get results, that means they’re not going hard enough.”
— Sal [04:50]

On Random Programming

“A lot of people can name a few exercises per body part, but programming is knowing how to order them, where to put them in the routine, rep ranges…”
— Sal [15:45]

On Grace and Patience

“If you don’t give yourself grace, if you hammer yourself with shame and self-hate, you’re done. This will be a relationship you ultimately hate.”
— Sal [20:31]

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Listener Live Coaching Highlights

[58:39] Dennis (South Carolina)

Big Background:

• Lost 130 lbs in a year, stopped heavy drinking/smoking, obsessed with losing last bits of chest and belly fat.
• Still training/dieting in “bodybuilder mode.”

Advice:

• You aren’t doing anything wrong—last fat loss is always slow/stubborn.
• Warning: If motivation is only aesthetic, you’ll relapse (“It’ll never be enough. You’ll keep moving the goalpost.” – Adam [65:32]).
• Shift focus to process and health, not appearance. If you want the “look” you crave, paradoxically, you have to stop chasing it with obsession.
• Sal gives Dennis personal contact for accountability—a rare show gesture.

[74:54] Scott (Canada)

Goal: Get better at dips and pull-ups (wants “streetlifting” ability; home gym only).

Advice:

• Focus exclusively on those movements, practice them frequently—keep intensity very low, treat them as skill drills (not to fatigue).
• Drop the volume of other work.
• Eat at maintenance—don’t cut and try to get strong simultaneously.
• Added to Mind Pump’s private forum for ongoing guidance.

[84:43] Randy (Tennessee)

Background:

• Past over-reliance on cardio, recent cortisol/sleep issues, improved with coaching and testing (EquiLife).
• Still struggles with sleep, thinks body temperature/workout timing may be to blame.

Advice:

• Insomnia on training days is a sign the workout volume/intensity is still too high.
• Switch to MAPS 15 (15 min/day protocol) and focus on walking; don’t re-escalate quickly even when you feel better.

[95:07] Kyler (Michigan)

Incredible Journey:

• Lost 164 lbs (327→163), now struggling with sustainable maintenance, injury, overuse, and eating more post-diet.
• History of extreme focus and restriction; fear of slipping if not hyper-vigilant.

Advice:

• Move from “goal fixation” to enjoying the process—a new, more challenging phase.
• MAPS 15 Performance + bring calories up by 500 (to 2,900); keep walking at current levels (not “as much as you want”).
• Focus on support and gradual trust-building in new habits; invited to private forum for check-ins and community.
• “What served you before will hurt you now. This is a normal transition.” – Sal [107:29]

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Other Engaging Segments

[31:02] Gym Lingo Goes Mainstream

• Sal’s daughter’s use of “gains, swole, bulk, cut, PR” etc.
• Gym lingo is now universal, not just for lifters.
• Fun reflection on shifting culture—“Bro” has crossed genres and genders.

[36:23] Parenting & Sarcasm

• Discussion about teasing kids, consequences of sarcasm, fostering safe environments at home vs. ribbing among friends.
• “Master trainers are master grace givers.” [22:38]

[45:15 onward] Family Dinners

• All hosts reflect on the challenge and importance of regular family meals.
• Family dinners are tough to maintain, but worth the planning and effort.
• Theme: Balance, tradition, and family culture are as important as training habits.

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:53 – Mistake #1: Training Too Hard (Over-Training)
• 07:58 – Mistake #2: Not Training Hard Enough (Under-Training)
• 11:09 – Mistake #3: Not Starting With Strength
• 13:21 – Mistake #4: No Programming/Bad Programming
• 15:45 – Mistake #5: Skipping Compound “Best” Lifts
• 18:15 – Mistake #6: Not Resting Enough
• 20:31 – Mistake #7: No Grace and No Patience
• 22:38 – Mistake #8: Avoiding New Rep Ranges
• 24:11 – Mistake #9: Not Prioritizing Technique
• 26:42 – Mistake #10: Skipping Certain Body Parts
• 58:39 – Live Coaching: Dennis (Massive Weight Loss Journey)
• 74:54 – Live Coaching: Scott (Pull-Ups/Dips & Streetlifting)
• 84:43 – Live Coaching: Randy (Military/Sleep/Cortisol)
• 95:07 – Live Coaching: Kyler (Massive Transformation/Maintenance Fears)

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Tone & Language

The episode balances tough love, humor, deep empathy, and practical wisdom. The hosts—true to Mind Pump style—blend science with playful banter and real-life relatability, calling out fitness industry BS while making every listener feel seen and understood.

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Summary Takeaway

Mind Pump 2679 is a masterclass in reframing fitness struggles for real gains—personal growth, consistency, and enjoyment over aesthetics-alone obsession. Whether you’re stuck spinning your wheels, afraid to push hard, lost in the details, or paralyzed by perfectionism, this episode is packed with actionable checklists, eye-opening analogies, and heartfelt coaching to help you escape the “work harder, expect faster” trap and build something you actually love for life.

Standout Message:
Progress is about learning to do just enough, with joy, skill, and self-compassion—not about punishing yourself or chasing illusions.

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For more Mind Pump truth bombs, follow them on Instagram @mindpumpmedia and check out programs at mapsfitnessproducts.com.

Transcript

[Sal Destefano]

Back to school is better with family.

[Adam Schaefer]

Freedom From T Mobile, we'll pay off.

[Sal Destefano]

Four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 8 $2009.99 Eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off earlier, cancel contact T Mobile. If you want to pump your body, your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the entire world in all of history. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we had callers call in and we got to coach them on air. We got to help them with their fitness, their diet, all of their struggles. When it comes to fitness on air, it's our favorite part of the episode. But before that we do an intro. Today's intro is 55 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fat loss and muscle gain and strength training and exercise. We also talk about family life and sometimes current events. It's a great time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, just send us your [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today I talked about their horny stack. These are the Happy Drops and Shilajit Gummies. Combine them together and watch what happens. Go try them out. Go to Organifi.com that's O R G A N I F I.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Rock Recovery. This is a rehab facility that we work with. They're really good. Look, if you or a loved one or friend struggles with addiction, go to rockrecoverycenter.com mind pump. You will get help. You can fill out a form, everybody's gonna get some advice and one of you will get a free sponsorship which is worth something like $50,000. So it's rockrecoverycenter.com mindpump also this month we are doing a quiz for women. It's called the Muscle Mommy Movement quiz. So go to musclemommymovement.com quiz on that. Find out if you're a comeback queen, an efficient powerhouse, a strength novice, or a lifestyle integrator. See which avatar fits you and get some personalized advice based off of your life. Again, it's muscle mommy quiz. Sorry. Musclemommymovement.com quiz. All right, here comes the show. All right, you go to the gym, but your progress, well, it's lacking. Nothing's happening. What is going on? There's 10 reasons. These are 10 common reasons. While you're not making gains in the gym, if you make these mistakes, they're crushing you. Here we go.

[Adam Schaefer]

First one's gonna be controversial, of course.

[Sal Destefano]

Of course. By the way, I got this because I was talking to our customer service team yesterday, and they'll get questions and, you know, help people through fitness and stuff like that. You know, fitness questions, stuff. And it was Margaret. Margaret's like, you need to do an episode on, like, common gym mistakes that are preventing people from getting results because she's constantly having to repeat herself at the same. Which is, again, these are common ones, the ones that we listed. You guys know that's this whole podcast. That's right. Here's the first one. The first one is you go too hard. You actually train too hard. Is there such a thing as too hard? Yes, there is. Of course. Exercise really is a stressor on the body, and the adaptation process, the recovery and then adaptation from that stressor is what makes you more fit, right? So you go to the gym, you work out, it's a stress. Your body heals or recovers, then your body adapts so that next time, that same stressor is not the same stressor. It doesn't stress your body as much. Your body is strengthening itself. If the workout is too intense or too hard for you and your body, in the context of your life, when you consider things like diet, age, fitness level, sleep, all that stuff, if it's too hard, there is no room for adaptation. Sometimes there's no room even for recovery. So you might even be going backwards. But oftentimes what happens is people give themselves just enough room for recovery. They go to the gym, there is tolerate it, there's no progress. It's just they're essentially spinning their tires in the mud.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you think since the second one is the opposite of this, do you think that you could describe a specific avatar like that? This is because I. Because. Because the other one is. The second one is the opposite of this one. I mean, I don't want people to Be confused and be like, okay, well then what? I'm one or the other. And so I kind of have a picture of what I think that person looks like. You know. Do you have an. Could you describe that avatar?

[Sal Destefano]

Type A executive. They tend to accomplish things in life by gritting their teeth and going after it. And so they approach exercise this way. Yeah, they just, they think the harder they go, the better the results. And if they don't get results, that means they're not going hard enough. And so this is like a personality for sure. I can, I can see this person. I had clients like this.

[Justin Andrews]

You see them multiple times in the gym or like a really long stretch of time in the gym and just hitting almost everything, like constantly. Yeah, I mean, it's. We had a lot of clients like this.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. This is a very common thing, especially with successful people. I mean, that's just like common thoughts like, I gotta basically live in the gym now to, to get this kind of progress I'm seeking.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, the audience is probably tired of hearing me say this, but I just feel like that's, it's so true. And the reason why we can describe that avatar is this, you know, type A executive go getter. Because everywhere else in life, the harder you push, the more you work, the more you do, the more you get out. Yeah. Like everything else, everything else in life.

[Sal Destefano]

This is how they got through school. This is how they got their promotions. This is how they make their money.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Every. Everything else that you do that you do with this attitude has served them well. This is like the one thing that doesn't. It's the one thing that. No, the, the harder you grit through things and the more you grind or push, the better the results. Is not true in this case. And so I think it. I, I would agree. I would say that this is the, the key avatar that fits this. This over training or doing. Going too hard. Another one. That would probably be the young ambitious kid.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, who's like, you know, no pain, no gain glorifies some of the.

[Justin Andrews]

Big guys in gyms.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. Or. I mean, I definitely fit that category because even before I would consider myself this, you know, high performing type of executive person who's a type A, I would have considered myself the young kid who was chasing soreness because I thought that was an indicator of a good workout. I still think that there's a good portion of people that probably think that. So those would be kind of like the two main avatars, I think.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And maybe the last One would be just the. The person who's just gotten to a really. They've gotten to a kind of a dark place of self hate. They hate how they look, they hate themselves. So they go in the gym and just beat the crap out of themselves. And at first it feels good because. Feels good to beat the crap out of yourself when you hate yourself. Initially, it's a bit cathartic, but that doesn't last very long.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm gonna add one more because I think the last one that I have to add is. Is the sneaky one. And this is somebody who doesn't feel like, or it doesn't look like they're going so hard in the gym or so crazy, but because they have so many other.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Stressors in their life. Right. They're either battling some sort of an illness. They're. They're malnutrition, they're. They're undernourished. Right. They don't.

[Sal Destefano]

Poor sleep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, Poor sleep.

[Sal Destefano]

Stress at.

[Adam Schaefer]

Stress with their personal life, high stress at their work life. But then they're not even training that crazy in the gym. But it doesn't.

[Sal Destefano]

It's too hard for them.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's too hard for them.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm so glad you said that.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's the sneakiest one of all of them.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. Going too hard can look different for different people. High performing, top athlete, they're too hard. Looks very different than the woman who's getting poor sleep because she's got two little kids at home and she's also got a job. And so she goes to the gym and takes classes, you know, three days a week, and it's just beating her up. The next one's the opposite, which is you don't go hard enough. This is the person who lacks consistency. They can't string months together of consistency in the gym or they're afraid. They're afraid of pushing themselves. So they go to the gym and the routine looks kind of the same all the time. The same eight pounds, same dumbbells, same everything. That's right. And they're just not. They're just. They just don't get after it sometimes. And so they go in there and this is, okay, you're active, so it's better than not doing anything. But you need to push yourself a little bit. By the way, both of these combine. The story that they tell is that there's a right dose, there's too hard and there's not hard enough. In the middle is the perfect dose for your body. And what does the. How do you know you have the perfect dose? You are progressing in particular in performance. In performance, if your strength is going up, you can do more reps, you're doing the lifts better. That's the best indicator that you're doing the right amount, just the right amount for your body. If you're not progressing in those ways, regardless of what the scale shows, you're not getting stronger. And I see performance improvements you might be doing. Going too hard or not going hard enough.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. The client that comes to mind is the clients. I had lots of clients at this that, you know, go all the way back to, like the video cassette days. So, I mean, I remember having clients, I had several clients like this where I'd ask them about their workouts. I'm like, oh, yeah, no, 10 years consistently.

[Sal Destefano]

Same video.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, the same video. You know, 8 o' clock in the morning. Yes. And so same weight, same, same, you know, workout for 10 years or like that. And. And I, I share that. Not to knock that person, because kudos to that person who has made movement and exercise a part of their life.

[Sal Destefano]

Still healthy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very good. Very good. And very much better than not doing it at all. But the point trying to address here is why they're not getting gains. Right? Why is what they're not getting gains? Because they're not progressively overloading their body. They've been running the same routine. Body's very adapted to the whatever thing it is. The same category would be people that love classes. You know, at 24 Fitness, we had all those group X classes, body pump and all this stuff. And then, you know, the same people coming every same day, and they look the same and it's like, yeah, but their body's well adapted to the signal that's being sent in that again, better than doing nothing. And they're, they're moving. And I think there's lots of value to keeping the body active and just moving for overall health. But also real quick recipe for, you know, flatline gains in plateau.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Add one to that. I remember they had that one section of machines kind of set up like curves where.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And you see.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it, again, to your point, it's like, at least they're there and they're consistently kind of going through these. But it's very much the same exact pin spot. It's the same type of, like, effort that they're putting into every single machine. And then they just. Yeah, they get to a point where they look the same every time.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You Know this Cause you'll talk to.

[Justin Andrews]

Them and be like, oh yeah, they're very social.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I grab the eight pound dumbbells and I do 10 reps, you know, of overhead press. Oh, how long have you been doing that? Oh, seven years. Yeah, it's the same dumbbells, same reps. Okay, we're not going to change. Next up, your foundation isn't strength. Strength is the physical pursuit that contributes to all other physical pursuits. Now of course, if you have very specific performance goals like endurance, stamina, agility, strength is still the foundation, but your workout's going to look different. But for most people, most people listening, they're interested in longevity, health and fat loss. This is what they're fat loss, aesthetics, longevity. The foundation of your routine should rest on strength training. Because strength training produces most of those results or at least gives you the best results. Bang for your buck by far. So if your goal is like, I want to look better and improve my health and longevity and I'm only going to the gym two or three days a week, the bulk of that should be traditional strength training. It should not be any other form of exercise. Again, unless your goal is like endurance and running and stuff like that, in which case the routine looks different. But for most people, the foundation should be strength that'll give you the best results.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, this is where too back to kind of the circuit training point where we see that go sideways, where people think that they're doing a strength based type of a workout, but they're cutting the rest period substantially. And so they're, they're definitely like not getting the full benefit of actually strength training.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, the, I would say the opposite of this are the, the people that I remember when I was at Orange Theory and you know, they got more into the speed at which they could get through the workout.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Versus moving up. And I remember I used to have to stop the class and be like, listen, I do not want to look over to my group in the weight area and see people not resting. You've got to rest. You should be trying to rest and go up and wait. Not how much faster can I get through or how many more rounds can I do? That's right. And so people tend to chase the sweat, the burn, more activity versus slowing down and going, getting strong. Can I get strong, Can I get stronger in this lift? And so yeah, I think a very specific avatar gravitates towards this mode of training.

[Sal Destefano]

Next up, you're just not following good workout programming or you're just not following a program at all. You go to the gym and you say, oh, I'm going to do a little this machine, I do a little that machine. I'm going to work on this strength training. If there's a knock on strength training, it's this, it's more complex in terms of programming than other forms of exercise. Typically now all forms of exercise there's programming that makes it more or less effective. Strength training in particular, right. So it's very important that you follow some kind of a program that doesn't have to be complex, doesn't have to be crazy. Programming. Very basic good strength training programming will outperform you. Going to the gym and doing exercises for areas you want to work on so much, it's like night and day. It's like one doesn't do much, the other one. Suddenly I'm getting phenomenal results. And a lot of people do this. A lot of people go to the gym and they'll say I'm gonna do a little bit of this, a little of that. I think I wanna work on my arms. You know, I do this exercise over here cause I wanna work on that part of my legs. It's funny, this is my mom. My mom finally agreed to let me hire her a trainer. Finally. She's very modest, she doesn't want me spending money on her. It's a typical old world mother, very loving and I'm like, mom, you need to strength train. I do strength training. I'm like, tell me about your strength training. Well, I go to the gym and I do this machine cause I wanna work on this. And then I do that machine cause I wanna work on that. And I'm trying to explain to her workout programming which you know, didn't work. So finally what I did is I used her skill on her. She's got this incredible skill of guilt. She can like throw it on me, make me do things. So I bought the training and I said, mom, it's going to be a waste of money if you don't use it. So now she's working with a trainer, but now she's following programming and the results are just.

[Adam Schaefer]

This might be, maybe this is the most common in the gym because most people that are going to the gym have somewhat a base knowledge of exercise or what they should be doing and have probably seen somewhat of results from their effort of doing that. But then are, are stuck in the same routine. I think we're all guilty. I mean I think even at the level all of, all of us are at, are even guilty of gravitating to kind of the same routine or the exercises you like doing and not changing things up. And so you got to know that if somebody with all the experience and knowledge that all of us have in here, if we still have a tendency to, to gravitate that the average gym goers absolutely doing that, they're, they're just doing the stuff that they like.

[Justin Andrews]

Going to like be attracted to what you're uncomfortable with.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so. Yeah, that's just human nature.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And a lot of it's like this too. Like a lot of people can name a few exercises per body part, but programming is knowing how to order them, where to put them in a routine, rep ranges, how to use those. Like programming is all the other stuff. It's not just exercises that you know per body part. Next up is you don't focus on the best lifts. The analogy I like to use, I'll use an analogy to explain this. Like let's say your goal was to dig a 10 by 10 by 10 hole. So 10ft deep, 10ft wide, you know, both width, length, hole. And you have three options to dig with a spoon, a shovel and a backhoe. Yeah, all of them will dig a hole. One of them does the best job and requires the least amount of effort. Yeah, that's what it's like with certain exercises. There are certain exercises that if you do them like a deadlift or a squat or an overhead press or a row that are like the backhoe, they will get you there much faster. And then there's lots of other exercises that have value, but they're just not nearly as effective. And if you skip those best lifts, I mean you're basically trying to do this on extra hard mode, which if that's what you want, cool. But most people, I think they want results for the effort they put in.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. This one's interesting to talk about because I do still think you see this, but I would have said 10, 15 years ago this was the number one problem.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

10, 15 years ago, big difference. Like, huge difference. I mean the fact I could work in a gym for 10 hours in a day and actually go like, I recall days in the gym. Okay. In like some of the most busiest gyms in the Bay area, working a 10 hour shift and not see one squat. Y or definitely not a dead.

[Sal Destefano]

I went months without seeing a squat in the 90s.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I went months without seeing a deadlift for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But even this, not seeing the squat rack be used in an entire 10 hour day is crazy. We're what, a 180 now?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now you have gyms that most big commercial gyms have got at least four to five squat racks and there is normally a line of people waiting to use after the next, which that, what a. I mean that's one of the coolest things things I think.

[Sal Destefano]

What a win.

[Adam Schaefer]

Huge win, Huge win. To think that this was probably one of the biggest reasons why people weren't seeing results 10, 15 years ago to now, seeing that much. I still think there are a lot of people that miss the mark here, but we've definitely moved the needle in the right direction in, in regards to. More people are figuring this piece out totally.

[Sal Destefano]

Next up, you don't rest long enough in between sets. We kind of mentioned this earlier, but what makes strength training, strength training is the rest periods. In fact, the rest periods make strength training, strength training more than the exercises do. This is true, everybody.

[Justin Andrews]

That's crazy, right?

[Sal Destefano]

It's the rest periods that make strength training build strength, build muscle, boost your metabolism, get those hormone benefits. And it's not because you necessarily need the rest. This is, I wish they called them something else. Like we have reps, sets and rest period. And because it's called rest, I think.

[Adam Schaefer]

People think should be like gain supercharged.

[Sal Destefano]

Periods or maybe, maybe pause. I don't know what the right word would be. But people hear rest and they think, oh, that's cause you need to rest because you can't keep going. But I can keep going, so I'm not going to rest therefore making it more effective. No, no. The rest period is so that you can shift or focus on energy systems that contribute to building muscle and strength. If you keep going, you move into a different energy system of the body where you're building endurance, which if you want that, that's great. But if you're doing strength training for the benefits of strength training, which is the muscle, the sculpt, the boost of metabolism, the rest periods are what make it strength training. So it's not that you need them because you need to rest, it's you need them to get the results. Charging up your symptoms. And the rest periods should be at minimum, a minute and a half, at minimum for many people, two to three minutes. It's what's going to give you best results. By the way, the data on this is clear.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think the reason why that is, is I think that people think by shortening the rest periods and keeping going like that they're getting the benefits of both. They think that they're getting the, the Best muscle building benefits and endurance benefits. Very few people, when you tell them that, go like, well, I do want endurance. It's like, yeah, but do you want it more than being able to build muscle? Because that's.

[Sal Destefano]

And there's a better way to get endurance, by the way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And too. And I think people just want to get through it. I just want to get through this. Let's get over with like, that's a common thought.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I'll tell you what, as a trainer, when you train people and you do it right, this is a skill to learn how to get your clients to sit down. In fact, I mastered the art of, of conversation because this is what got my clients to chill out. Because I would get new clients and we'd be. We'd do a set, they'd wait 20 seconds, like, all right, let's go again. They'd pick up the weights. No, no, we got arrest. So I'm like, you know, I'm going to distract them with really good questions and conversations so they don't realize that we're resting for two minutes or three minutes. And they got better results, of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

Master the three minute conversation.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. Next up, you don't give yourself grace. Listen, if you plan, if your goal, which should be this, if your goal is to be able to do this forever, because that's what you want, right? You want to be able to be consistent for the rest of your life so that you have good health or better health for the rest of your life, you have good mobility for the rest of your life so that you feel great. Right. You don't want to get in shape and get out of shape. You want to do this forever. This journey is going to be marred and littered with failures. Okay. You are going to have a lot of failures. I don't care. The most consistent person is going to have a lot of failures throughout this process. If you don't give yourself grace, if you hammer yourself with shame and self hate, you're done. This will be a relationship that you will eventually hate and you'll stop. You won't be able to do it forever. The only way you could pursue a lifestyle of health and fitness is if you accept the fact that you're going to make mistakes. And when you do, you give yourself grace and you get back on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I would say the word that is interchangeable to grace for this one would be patience.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think that both go hand in hand. And I think it's. It's a similar point. I think a lot of people think that they're going to build muscle and lose body fat a lot faster than they're going to. And so I think takes time. Good point. Yes. I think understanding that and that. And I, I do think it goes hand in hand with grace. Part of that is the ups and downs of, of the process. Part of it is it's just a slow process. Like it's. It takes a long time to build five pounds of muscle. It takes a long time to just burn five pounds of body fat. And so if you understand that and simultaneously give yourself grace, because not only does it take a long time and you need to be patient, you're also probably going to make mistakes along the way, which is only going to prolong that process even more. And so understanding both the grace and the patience thing, I think are so important.

[Sal Destefano]

It's so key.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. To someone's consistency because if you go in with these high expectations of I'm going to get after it for this amount of time and I'm. You think you're not going to make any mistakes and you think it's going to happen faster, boy, you're going to be set up for disappointment.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep. And then when you make a mistake, you beat yourself up, the shame spiral starts and you're done. By the way, master trainers are master grace givers. This is what makes the best trainers. The best trainers is they're really good at extending that to their client so the client's honest with them and then the client feels it and then they give it to themselves. Next up, you don't try different rep ranges. Right. So now this doesn't mean you try different rep ranges in every workout, but you train in a particular rep range for a while and then try a different rep range. Everybody has their favorite rep range. Okay. I love low reps. I love low reps. I like reps around 5 or 6. You get me above 15 and I just want to leave. I don't, I don't like it. It sucks. But I do it because your body adapts to the rep range that you're in. And each rep range has its own value and each rep range has its own downside. And so it's important to explore the full breadth of strength training rep ranges, which are between 1 and 25. It's a wide range, everybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think that what fits in here also is rest periods and tempo. Yeah, I think all three of those are levers that we, we don't tend to manipulate or pull enough. We all tend to fall into a rep Range we like a rest period, we like a tempo we like. And you might be changing exercises up here and here, but they're, they're all in this similar way of training. And so I think understanding how all three of those are great levers to manipulate and as you train and also a part of programming. And so I think a lot, I think all three of those are included in this point.

[Sal Destefano]

Next up, you're not prioritizing technique and skill. When people look at exercise, it's a means to an end for them. It's like, this is just to work this area. This is just to get sore. This is just to sweat. Exercises are a skill and the better you can perform the skill, the better the results you're going to get and the less chance of injury. But definitely the better the results look. If you go to, you want to hit a golf ball as far as possible with a club, I think everybody knows there's a technique. You just swing the golf club as hard as you can, that ball's not going anywhere. If you have good technique, you get a lot of distance. If you want good results, treat your exercises the same way. A properly performed or high skill performed exercise like a squat or a deadlift or an overhead press versus a poor technique version of those. The results are so vast in terms of the difference. Like, one, I get terrible results and I get hurt. The other one, it's safe and oh my God, my body's progressing incredibly. So treat them like a skill. Don't treat them just like, as a way to work a body part.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is one of my favorite tips that we give to clients in general or just especially beginners. I also think this helps manage the first ones where we're talking about going too hard or not hard enough. Like, I think we approach workouts so much as like this punishment or beating our body up when we'd be far better served if we were to go in and approach it as a skill that we're trying to improve and get better at. I think that naturally will create this kind of progressive overload. It will give you way more return on the exercises. It's a much better way to approach exercise is, hey, these are all skills and I want to get really good at these skills versus, oh, how much can I punish myself? Or how hard can I make this? Or how much can I sweat? How good can I get at these movements? It will serve you far better than any other way.

[Justin Andrews]

It's funny how, you know, athletes get this, but they don't necessarily understand that you Apply that same principle to working out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Which is so funny.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because I mean, you're not going to practice at 100 because. Yeah, you're going to take yourself out of performing really well for the, for the game. And it's, it's a very similar concept. If you just approach these lifts, especially the ones that make move the needle the most, you can get better at them. And getting better at them, you don't go 100%. You just, you know, really work on all those little nuances and, and, and do it with not too much intensity. Then eventually you, you realize, wow, look what I can do to perform at, at a high magnitude.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. And then finally you skip the body parts that you don't think are fun. You know, the guys, every teenage, every.

[Adam Schaefer]

Teenage guy right here.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You know, women who skip, you know, shoulders or arms or chest or whatever. The body. Yes. You can avoid body parts and focus on ones you want to bring up. But over time, training the whole body with balance produces the best results for every body part. Okay. Training your legs over time will in, it will improve your body's ability to develop your arms. The body works this way. This is very fascinating studies where they'll take a person and they'll immobilize one arm like it's in a cast. And when you do that, you're going to get atrophy. Right. Muscles are going to shrink and get. It's like when you break a limb, that's just what happens. Then they'll have some people exercise the other arm and they have other people not exercise the other arm. Do you know what happens when they exercise the other arm? The arm that's immobilized atrophies less. The body likes to be in balance. So over time, if all you want is, you know, better looking shoulders, you're better off over time training the rest of your body. So don't skip those, those body parts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Interesting that we chase this because it's a pretty established fact that we as humans are attracted more to symmetry than we are size.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's not like, you know, bigger shoulders, bigger butt. Those things. I know those are, these are common things that someone chases. But the, the eye is, it's more pleasing to see symmetry than it is to see just excessive size. But yet all of us are guilty of probably approaching our training and our workouts with this, I need a bigger chest or I need bigger butt, I need a bigger whatever. And you're just all focused on that versus going like trying to bounce Now. I think Bodybuilders are the exception here. I think this is one of the areas that they do a really good job. Because you're judged on. Yeah. When you get up on stage, the guy with the biggest chest does not always win. If he's not proportioned to his shoulders and his back, he won't win. And so you're judged on symmetry. And so I. And how many times have you lost size on a body part and then being complimented because you're more imbalanced?

[Sal Destefano]

What's funny about this, by the way, is that building a butt has become so popular that you're now seeing women only do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And they're starting to get the skinny leg butt look. And it's like, that doesn't look right.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Balance and symmetry is everything with. With. With. Not just aesthetics, by the way. The reason why we find balance and symmetry attractive is because it displays health, mobility, and performance. Like, if you have a developed body part and others don't support it, that's called injury and poor performance.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

In the real world. So don't skip those body parts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

All right. So be getting messages from people. Ever since I talked about the organifi horny stack, the shilaji, I haven't heard back from kind of messages.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for Drew and the team.

[Sal Destefano]

Over there to just say, either keep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Talking about, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

This is Shilajit and Happy Drops. Happy Drops. People are already reporting that it increases their libido. Shilajit has been shown to do this with fertility and stuff, especially for men. You combine the two and, you know, take them both consistently for a couple weeks and watch what happens. Watch what happens, everybody.

[Justin Andrews]

Watch out for the hips talk.

[Sal Destefano]

It's a good time. And they're gummies, which is even more fun, so. I know, I know. I love it. I love calling them. I don't get their approval. I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why I'm waiting for that. There's only been a couple of these questions. Commercials that are ran. It's typically after a few of them were. I'll hear back from that side. So, you guys, they'll either love it or hate it. I mean, they were. The Christmas blend they were happy about. That was the last stack that you talked about. I think they liked. And so so far, it's been positive. But the horny stack, still a little more on the edgy side.

[Sal Destefano]

It's all right. It's true.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what it is, how they receive it.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, I got. I Got to talk about something hilarious. So I'm having this the best time with my daughter because she's getting into like lifting and it's so fun because she's still a my daughter. So I'm still dad, which means I'm not cool. And she's a still teenager. Still a teenager. Which means she's going to, you know, she knows little. Yeah. But my daughter's, she's, she's wonderful. She's so disciplined. She's got all these great characteristics. Anyway, she's getting into lifting and so we're, as we're talking, she's using language that I'm just so shocked that a 15 year old girl is using things like gains. You know, things like she said progressive overload. Progressive overload, bulk cut. And I'm like, what is going on here? I'm like, is this.

[Justin Andrews]

Is it because TikTok, dude, you know what?

[Sal Destefano]

So I looked this up. So there's a lot of lingo which I think we kind of don't realize now has made it mainstream. That's gym language. For example, bro is kind of gym language, which now everybody says. In fact, I was at.

[Justin Andrews]

Where was at bro Science for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

I was moving my oldest into college. And we were in an elevator. So funny. And the elevator was getting full with kids. Right. And. And there was like a bunch of girls in there. And as it was getting full, you know, it kept stopping at every floor because all these kids were moving in. It was the first day and the kids were saying, we're all joking. They're like, all right, don't let anybody else in. That's it. If the next one comes up, tell them we don't fit because we're all packed like sardines. And of course when it opens, kids squeeze their. Squeeze themselves in. And the girls, they would look at each other and go, bro, bro. And I'm like, what do you say? You're a girl. So funny. So there's that Gains has made it mainstream.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, swole. Yeah, swole.

[Sal Destefano]

This is all stuff we said in the 90s that now everybody understands.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now are we see. Are we even seeing that to people that make don't train too, is it.

[Sal Destefano]

It's because I think lifting has gone more mainstream.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's kind of like common. Like PR is another one.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I've even. I like. To your point about bro. I've heard, I've heard, I've heard young girls talk to each other like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have nieces that I've heard Say stuff like that. And so that's made away. And they're not, like, big workout people.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that's interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Bulk and cut. Those are. Those are. Have gone mainstream. I said PR beast mode. That's a thing. I think it's so great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's so funny that this gym, like, culture and lingo is kind of making.

[Justin Andrews]

It out way better than Skibidi, you know?

[Sal Destefano]

What was that? I know. Have you tried looking up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude. And there's some video attached to it. It was just, like, really wild.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, not just that, but, like, have you tried looking up just their. Yeah. Their lingo in particular?

[Justin Andrews]

Of course. I. Yeah, I do that just to embarrass them.

[Sal Destefano]

That's our job.

[Justin Andrews]

Goal is to. Yeah. Pick them up and say those kinds of words in front of their friends.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you guys. You guys use, like, Urban Dictionary or what? How do you stay on top of what the kids are saying to you, or do you just. Straight up.

[Sal Destefano]

They actually. There's actually videos where there's, like, parents who are. Who are walking through a tutorial, and it's so funny.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've seen some funny ones. Where. Or a dad. There's a. There's a guy.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I've seen this one.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. There's a dad that has, like, two daughters.

[Sal Destefano]

And he says it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And he puts them in, like, a whole. But he does it, like, in a whole. You know, I'm saying he's like, use his claws. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he's, like, communicating to them in front of their friends.

[Sal Destefano]

Stop it. It is your job.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you know what you're saying?

[Sal Destefano]

Listen, I'm gonna say this right now. Like, this is, like, your job as a dad is to tease your teenage kids and embarrass them. It's the best thing. Yeah. It is the most amazing thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's funny. You say, I love it. I have to. I have to challenge that, just because of the. The recent book that I read. And it was, in fact, we. And we just had a moment. We just had a moment yesterday where this happened. So crazy. So we. Katrina and I just finished that book, and I told you that one of the main tips from that was leave sarcasm at the door. And Katrina, I was upstairs. It was yesterday. This just happened. And I come downstairs, and she, like, Max was in the living room. She, like, pulled me in the pantry real quick. She's like, oh, my God, he just had a meltdown. I'm like, really? What happened? And then she's telling me what happened. And I let her finish and go, you know what you did right there, don't you? And she's like, what? She goes, I was just playing with. I said, yeah, you were being sarcastic.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I said, you were just having fun and teasing him. But it did. His brain doesn't understand that. And so what she did was he had like, his. His treats and she was trying or like, like his snacks or whatever, and she was like, no, I want you to eat this or finish this first. And then she pretended to, like, eat them, and he just, like, had a complete meltdown. And then she had to be like, max, you have to be share with me. I'm like, what you did was you were playing with him and you were being sarcastic. I said, but he doesn't. His brain doesn't. And we have to understand that. And she's like, oh, my God, you're so right. She's like, we just. Now we just talked about that.

[Sal Destefano]

So I don't do it to my younger kids. Yeah, not the younger ones. When I do it to my daughter, I don't push it. I do it because she thinks it's funny too.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I think it's interesting because I know I have. I mean, look at Katrina and I both are. I think we're all kind of similar sarcastic people.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I just never thought. Thought of that as like a negative thing. But when you understand the way the brain develops as a kid and that they don't get that humor yet.

[Sal Destefano]

And then for us, I made that mistake with my. With my four and a half year old where he did something and I laughed because it was funny, but he took it personal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's just the younger ones, it is. It's dicey like that, but yeah, but then, I mean, they're going to get it at school when they get older, their friends. And so it's like the ribbing, it's, you know, it's. You want to get home, you want to have a safe place. So I understand the argument for that as well. So, yeah, I've been trying to check myself with that. I'm conscious of that. Because you go to affect them.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. And. And to your point, and he. He talks about this in the book, is that, you know, with their friends and stuff, that's where they'll learn that it's like that you leave, let them with their. With your parent. You're a different. You are different to them. And so their brain doesn't process it the same as their friend. Their friends. So Even though they're feeling it, they're doing it. They're learning it with their friends. This is because we didn't see this in Max. Max says all these funny things and they tease each other like all the Batman characters in Lego. And it's totally funny and playful. If Katrina and I try and do it, it doesn't land the same way.

[Sal Destefano]

I'll give you a win and a fail that I did with my. With my daughter. So here, I'll give you a win. Right. Drop her off at school and then yelling out the window, I love you, you know, real loud. And she kind of smiles and giggles, but she's embarrassed, right? That's okay. But I did.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a good example, though, of being playful and fun in a loving way. You're telling her, I love you. Like, you're not.

[Sal Destefano]

No, I'm not teasing her. And then I'll do the stuff in front of her friends while I'll use the lingo. And then her friends laugh and then she's like, dad, you know, that's kind of fun. But then I had a fail a while ago where if we pull up to school to drop her off, she tells me to turn the music down. Always. It doesn't matter what I'm playing, by the way. She just wants the music down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So one time we pulled up and as soon as she opened the door, I blasted. What's it called? Mariachi music. I don't listen to mariachi music. She got really mad. Yeah, she got really mad. Because actually did a person. That was a little too far. So it's definitely.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think, yeah. To me, it's just an interesting one for me because I know it's. I mean, I always love learning stuff or I would have never. I would actually would have thought of that as a positive thing in the past. Like, I would have said, like, my kidneys have some thick skin. This. But then when it was a neuro psychology book that I'm reading. And so like when you understand the. The neuro development of their brain and where they're currently at, and then you understand how it's processing and you. Oh, okay, maybe that's not the best.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you can tease your kid. You could tease your kid and it becomes an insecurity 100.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's actually most likely will become that. And you won't know it because they're not going to show that to you. But inside they're going to hold it that way. It's like. And so I'm like. And I Mean, I share that story with you. Like, I. How crazy is that? That, like, one of the most impressionable things ever was my uncle teasing me about my hair when I was like, what?

[Sal Destefano]

It was just. It was cute. But to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no, it was like, I was. I was mortified. You know what I'm saying? That, like, I mean, I'm seven or eight or. I don't remember. Old. I was really young. And, you know, he teasing me about that and like, that's like forever stuck with me. It's like, that's wild. That's imprinted. But it's where your brain.

[Sal Destefano]

My wife will do it. Where, like, my little one, my two and a half. Gone with that. Now.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'Ll be in therapy for that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, exactly. My kids would tease me every day. And it's like, it's just like our love language.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal Destefano]

No, my wife would do this with my two and a half year old where she'll say something, but she says it in, like, a cute way. She'll mispronounce it and then she'll repeat it back to her because it's cute.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And I'm like, don't do that. Because she's going to get insecure about how she's saying things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I also think that your guys's kids now are old enough that you could actually talk about that. Right. So you could be like, hey, does that. Does that bother you when I. When I rib you like that and then. And let them be like, yeah or no. Like, no, Dad, I love it. You know, I'm saying. And then a lot of funny little.

[Justin Andrews]

Anecdotes that though, too, because, like, I've been really trying to kind of peer in a little bit more to their world. And, like, was playing video games with Everett, like, we got the new Zelda, and we're just, like, playing it together. And I, like, suck. I really suck at video games. And I admittedly, I'm like, okay, pal, I'll play. But, you know, like, don't give me, you know, like, Because I've gotten pissed off before because I'm, like, concentrating.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm competitive.

[Sal Destefano]

You're too competitive.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm just, like, trying to, like, figure out always. And there's so many buttons, like, now and, like, I have to go through and not. I'm like, where's my sword? And I have to go, like, hit Z1. And then like, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.

[Sal Destefano]

And they get this.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're like, dad, what are you doing?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh. Oh.

[Justin Andrews]

They get so frustrated with me and I'm just like. And it's like, the one thing I'm like, I suck at with this. So they're just like, piling on, piling on, piling on.

[Sal Destefano]

And I'm like, do you throw the controller?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't want to play because you do this.

[Justin Andrews]

Shut them up, you know? But I'm like, well, this is, like, poetic justice, right, for me. And it's feedback for me, like, if I feel like that. So. But they don't. They don't know how to tease. We're working through that with, like, the teasing part of making it more fun and, like, you know, lighthearted. But. So I'm cognizant of that when I'm teasing them and then they're teasing me. And so we're kind of working through that, but they. They find some good, funny spots where they, like, hit me, and I'm like, oh, yes, you got me. But, you know, it is. It's like I, I. I found myself, like, almost like, getting, like, super.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, you're. I mean, you are a hardcore athlete. And when you play, when you're in any competitive environment like that, especially young men, because I. I didn't play a lot of sports, but I was in competitive environments, either in sales or, you know, running clubs, stuff like that. The love language between young men is to hammer each other.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it is.

[Sal Destefano]

Literally. I mean, I'm. This is true. I've told my wife this many times.

[Justin Andrews]

An extreme degree. Oh, I've been in the most extreme version of that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Listen, well, this is what you've. You've theorized on the evolutionary purpose of that, right?

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, you're testing them.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. It's like, who's.

[Sal Destefano]

Can you handle it?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, that's. I mean, I don't know how if that's been prov. In to be true or not, but it seems pretty logical.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, the guy in the group who's too sensitive to it is. Is always the guy.

[Justin Andrews]

Everybody's like, he's the target.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Like, don't. Like, that guy's not gonna. He can't hang or whatever. I mean, because this is what guys do. I told my wife this. I said. I said one of the big things, because you ever hear the nicknames girls give each other? They're so cute and great and sweet. The nicknames guys, derogatory, always. Oh, they're. They're a real problem. Like, if you're overweight, you're gonna have a nickname based on being overweight. If you're short, your nickname's gonna be about being short rat face. You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schaefer]

Rat face. Dude, y.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you have a buddy who lost the testicle and they. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

One ball, Pat.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Forever.

[Adam Schaefer]

No mineral. The guys will always do, like, derogatory. It is true. But I mean, that makes sense to me that, you know, if you go to war, and especially back in the days when very young men would go to war.

[Sal Destefano]

Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Very, very young, you want to know that these guys. Yeah, they're not going to fold when they get teased because they're going to have a lot more pressure than that when we go to war together. And so it makes sense that that's kind of built in our DNA to organically kind of test each other that way to make sure.

[Sal Destefano]

And so, yeah, I. I find it endearing. I mean, you guys know that we're off air, we just. We crush each other, and it's like. It is hilarious. I mean, you guys will hammer me about stuff that just. And I just think it's the funniest thing, and it's lovely.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I think that we all have that. That similar thick skin like that. And I think that that's something that. But again, I try and remember, like, I definitely got that from my friends. Yeah, it wasn't, like, a thing.

[Sal Destefano]

No, you get it from your mom.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't get it from my parents at all.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. I got it from my friends. I got it my.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, my parents called me beak face. Oh, my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

Seriously? I mean, it was pretty. It was pretty easy for me after I read that and had that big, hot moment to go like, oh, my God, that makes so much sense. That, like, that's definitely not who I want to hear that from. You know, I'm saying you're like, yeah, I can handle it from my friends all day long. But your. Your parent or your uncle or someone like that, like, it's going to land different. But again, back to my point, I think you guys have old enough kids now, which I think is cool that you guys could. You could talk it out, too. Yeah. You'd be like, hey, does that bother you when I. Because I don't want it. You know what I'm saying? No, no, dad, it's cool. You know, it's like, okay, cool. Then I feel like we can have that fun there versus, like, you know, my son's so young. It's like it either lands or doesn't land, and it's most likely not gonna land.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I. I went through that, and I stopped teasing them about their hair because you know that. You know, even when you talk.

[Adam Schaefer]

I asked them about.

[Justin Andrews]

I was like, does this bother you guys?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, they probably said yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And they were like, yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Stop. Yeah. You're like, oh, what were you saying about their hair?

[Justin Andrews]

I keep calling broccoli hair.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, yeah, yeah, Screech.

[Justin Andrews]

Anything I could come up with because it just bothered me, you know, but it's like, it's. What do I care?

[Sal Destefano]

That's their style.

[Justin Andrews]

Why am I an.

[Sal Destefano]

Teenagers crack me up because they. They try to be different so hard. But they actually are the same. Like, I want to be rebel, but you all look the same. Nobody's rebelling. You all have the same haircut. You all dress the same. Y' all the same. It was like mullet.

[Justin Andrews]

Then it's like broccoli hair. I'm like, I'm. I'm really, like, curious what's next, dude? Because I. I hope it's like shaved head or something.

[Adam Schaefer]

We could probably go back to our. Our. Because a lot of stuff is being repeated, right? Yeah, there's a lot of. A lot of training.

[Sal Destefano]

There was a kid in my. My daughter knows who did. I forgot what she called it. I'm so mad. But he shaved everything except for the back. There's a term for it. No, it wasn't rat tails. Like a flat. Like, and there's a name for it. I'm so mad I can't remember what it was. She's like, oh, this guy totally gave himself a something. And I'm like, what's that? She's like, you shave everything except you leave the back. I'm like, that's such a guy thing. What to do.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, we probably had. So I'm sure you look back. Remember when it was popular to do the side steps in the side of the hair, do some cool. I mean, there's some stuff like that.

[Justin Andrews]

I sort of.

[Sal Destefano]

Bricks.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So we've definitely done some things that.

[Sal Destefano]

Are fun, you know, You've done it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Although I did to Max. I did it. Max when he was like three. I cut his hair like that. So. Yeah. Yeah. But again, I think a lot of the stuff is making its way back that it's. It's kind of cool to do some of this stuff. So I'm sure we could probably look back at some dumb stuff we did that hasn't been done yet. And you could probably predict that that's. That's coming around the corner.

[Sal Destefano]

I want to give a shout out to my parents. Today is their 48th wedding. Anniversary.

[Adam Schaefer]

No way.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. You know, one of my favorite things when I was a trainer that I used to love, I used to love training people who had been married a long time and then watching my parents. It's such a wonderful. If you could be around a couple that have been married for a long time that have a good relationship, it's so great to be around them because you realize how much you become so much wiser and tolerant of each other. My parents, when I was younger, they would get in some blowouts about certain things. Now they can tease each other about stuff that used to cause issues. And it's like, like it's so. Because they've been together for so long. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, you. You almost truly become one. I know that's the whole point of marriage and unity is like that. But you, you gotta understand that just because you walk down an aisle yesterday and you were individuals, the next day, you're not going to be completely one. It's like, it's a process of getting there, I think, getting Start to notice.

[Justin Andrews]

That in your own significant other.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh.

[Justin Andrews]

Taking on some of your characteristics.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

That trips me up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. When I, I mean, I mean, it's been. Katrina and I have been there a long time now. Long way longer than any other relationship I've ever been in. And like, the, the. I mean, the joke right now in our house, this has been happening a few times where Katrina's, like talking to me and she's like skipping so many important details for me to even understand. And then she stops and she's like, you always read my mind. Why can't you. I'm like I said. Did you just hear how you just.

[Sal Destefano]

Started talking right there?

[Adam Schaefer]

I'll make her go back and be.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, like, she's like jump cutting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, total jump cutting. It's like crazy. I'm like, just repeat out loud and then pretend I'm anybody else trying figure that out. And she's like, but you always know. I'm like, okay, I'm good. I'm like, we're good.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what I'm saying?

[Kyler (Caller)]

We're.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're. That we're that much one. But I'm not that good.

[Sal Destefano]

I think the best, the best thing is esp.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Because she'll do.

[Adam Schaefer]

She'll. She'll go and she'll be talking and she'll be, you know, that one thing, and then she'll go the next day. And I'm like, I don't even know what the one thing was that she's alluding to that. And then she's on the other thing. She's like, you know the other day when so and so. And, like, so and so. The one thing I'm like, katrina, you literally know.

[Sal Destefano]

You didn't give me any information right there.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I'm supposed to know.

[Sal Destefano]

My wife does that. So I don't understand this. Maybe one day, if we're together for 48 years, like my parents, I'll understand her. She'll talk while her mouth is full, but she won't talk. She'll do that. And I'm like, mumble. No, not mumble. She does this voice inflection. Like, she'll drink water and she'll. And I'm like, do you. How do you think. I know. It's obvious what I'm saying. No, it's not. I have no idea what you're saying when you do that. So I'm hoping, like, 40 years, you know, you'll be able to.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're like, oh, yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

It's funny because it keeps, like, coming back to me because we're trying to really train the boys to be better about manners and all that, you know, and, like, sitting in for dinner, and then, like, you know, she's correcting them, and then I'm like, kind of sit back, and then I'll start, like, talking with mouthful of food. And, like.

[Sal Destefano]

Me. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, that's an area that I. I want to get better at that. That we. It surprises me how much effort I find that for us, considering I did come from as dysfunctional as my house was, we did have family dinners every night. Like, that was a staple thing. No matter how messed up we were, how crazy it was just a half hour before we had dinners every night together. And I actually find that very difficult for me to be consistent with that right now, which is a shame, because my son is so young. So it's.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, how do you guys do it? Then? You just eat your own and then you feed him.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So a lot. A lot of times, like, you know, his. He's feeding schedules a little bit sooner than us. And so a lot of times Katrina will have. Have him eat, and then. Then we'll eventually eat. And then even when we eat, it's like one of us is on the counter, one's at the table, or the timing is off a little bit. And so I find that, I mean, we're making a conscious effort. And so at least a couple times a night, I mean, a couple times a week, we will make sure that we Time it all and put a lot of effort into it. But that's just it. Is it? I. I realize it. It actually takes effort, total effort to. To make that happen with something that I felt was so routine for me as. Because you would become. Because it was so routine, I just assumed that, oh, this will be very routine for me and my family. But it quickly has gotten away from me many times and I think probably doordash has a lot to play with.

[Sal Destefano]

That too is, you know, sometimes you're.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just like, oh, I'm really hungry right now. Oh, doordash that right now. And it's like, like you're not all saying, oh, dinner's at 6, and we prepare it the hour before and that's when we'll all eat. It's like, oh, Max is hungry right now. Okay, let him eat right now. Well, then you and I can doordash this later. And so I find that happens a lot.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

More than I would like it to. And I know how valuable dinner times are at night. And so we. And the way why I bring this up that it's been a challenge is I. Even my son will. Oh, family dinner night. He'll do that. Like, where we're like, yeah, it's family dinner night. Like, and that's what her and I look at each other like. Well, we need to definitely be way more. More consistent with this. If he's groaning as if it's out of the normal, you know, it's like it needs to become more than normal. And, and then sure, maybe once in a while we have a. Get to watch a movie while we're eating or do something special. Pizza night on Friday, like, that's becomes more of the anomaly and the consistency is around that. But the fact that my son is saying something about sitting at it means.

[Sal Destefano]

It'S not as consistent.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't realize how, how challenging that would be for me, considering God.

[Sal Destefano]

Bless my wife, she'll. She'll ask me like, what time are you home today? And then let me know ahead of time. And she'll really try to time it so that when I walk in the door, dinner is on the table or about to be put on the table, everything's timed, and we wait till everybody sits down before we eat. And I love it because when I was a kid, my dad worked a lot, but we always, always, always, always at least had dinner together.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, doesn't it make you kind of appreciate that they did do that consistently?

[Sal Destefano]

The effort that goes into it, considering.

[Adam Schaefer]

How busy he was how busy your mom like to. To make sure that was organized.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, you know how hard it is to time like two or three courses to be warm at the same time. I've tried doing it. I'm like, I'm barbecuing. We're having meat. That's it. But my wife will have like three different things in time it. Which is skill.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Have you guys always been consistent with it, Justin?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. That's one thing that was a stable and it. To your point, like, there's other things too, like church and like these other things that I was like, oh, my God. It was just like so consistent. I was like, you know, like. But for some reason, dinner has always been like, this is. This is where I catch up with everybody. And so I just. I personally had always just like been adamant about trying to make sure that everybody. Because to Courtney, I know her love language is really about cooking and. And, you know, even going further than that to where it's like through her day, she's also in the garden and she's bringing things in that. And it's such like a. That's like such a disrespect thing for me to not like, honor that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

So. So I'm trying really hard to kind of establish another level with that, though, with the kids, because they don't, you know, they were kind of like taking.

[Adam Schaefer]

Advantage of it and not appreciating it. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They wouldn't eat like certain dishes and all this kind of stuff given like a hard time. But so it's. It's been a process. But, yeah, it's been. That's something that I've always kind of, you know, appreciated because we can talk and communicate and get a lot out of the kids that way. We don't get their attention like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

There's.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's times where I. I find Katrina's really good about it sometimes when she's preparing the meal and to integrate Max into chopping something up. And I, I would just. I would love for that to be an every night thing. It just. It's been work. It's been way more effort than I thought there would be.

[Sal Destefano]

It takes effort and planning.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Period.

[Sal Destefano]

End of story.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

When you're a kid, you don't realize it because mom makes it happen or whoever makes it happen.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But it. Schedule.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And I. And I do. I mean, it's an opportunity for me to give kudos to. To my mom for being able to do that. I know I've talked a Lot. A lot of the bad stuff or what that. But that was something that we were really consistent with that. I looking now as a dad six years later, I go like, oh, wow, that, you know, that's not like it just happens magically. Like that was a serious effort put forth to do that. And I would like more of that. And I just have to be better about being consistent with that.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm going to change directions here because we have. Have Tom and Ben, they're here from Rock Recovery Center. And I just gotta say, I love all of our partners. We don't work with anybody that we don't appreciate either their products or who the people are. Both. But this has been one of the more rewarding partnerships. Tom and I are in regular communication and anytime he has somebody come through through mind pump that is either for them or a loved one that needs help with addiction, he always asks them permission. But then I'll get messages from him and he'll say, like, oh, you know, Susan came in and her son needs help and would you mind recording a video for me? Just letting her know that you appreciate it. And so that's what I'll do. I'll send a video. And it's so rewarding to just hear about these people because, you know, I don't have personal. You don't have any personal experiences with it. But there are people that I know that are relatively close to me who've dealt with addiction and that is so hard. So to hear that, you know, this process and to be able to feel like I can. Can somehow contribute to the success is like. And it's just so rewarding. So I'm excited to have him on the show, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I know. Me too. I remember when we first were taught, I mean, I was, I was working with the two of them last year and it, I. It didn't even cross my mind. And he brought it up. He's like, hey, do you. What do you think about us doing some sort of a partnership? And I thought, I haven't really thought of something like that. I said, but what you guys are doing, I'm. I know the guys are so behind it. And so I said for me, I would just hope that it would. It would make sense for you guys, you know, business wise, and that it would help you enough that it makes sense for you guys to do that with us. And so that was really the, the only hesitancy that I had when we first were meeting with them because it's not like a typical. It's not like a normal business.

[Sal Destefano]

Not at all.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's like a product that everybody loves and then they go buy. It's like, okay, I'm sure we have a lot of people that have family or friends that are probably battling with it and I think you guys are an incredible resource. And so if they, if they can get service and help from you guys and it makes sense, then I would love to do it. And it's probably become one of the more rewarding, if not the most rewarding.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, we get the partnerships life changing.

[Adam Schaefer]

We get videos from people who are.

[Sal Destefano]

Going through it, who found them through us. It's like I tear up every single time I want to mention something new that we're doing, which I think is awesome. We have this quiz, so it's a, it's called the Muscle Mommy movement quiz. And you can go on and find out what avatar you probably fit in and then you'll get some tailored advice to you. And I think this is super cool. Our new advertising company put this together. It's got integrity behind it because a lot of times these quizzes are ridiculous. But this one's great. And the avatars are the comeback queen, the efficient powerhouse, the strength novice, or the lifestyle integrator creator.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So you do is you go musclemommymovement.com forward/quiz and you, you answer the questions, see where you fall. And then there's some advice that you get based off of which avatar best fits you in terms of, you know, diet, nutrition, you know, exercise and that kind of stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

One of my really fun. One of my favorite parts about the new marketing team is that a huge focus of theirs is adding more value, nurturing more, and servicing our people better than we have before. Where previously so much of our marketing team was focused on the acquisition side and just how fast can we add more people? More volume. More volume. And I really felt like that got away from us. I mean, we built this on just, you know, the small group of people that we are servicing and helping so much. And it grew organically like that.

[Sal Destefano]

That.

[Adam Schaefer]

And admittedly, as it grew to the size it did, some of that stuff got away from us. And I can tell by the way they're structuring and putting things out, the focus is way more on getting. And this is connections. Yeah, this is just another example of that. Is like, hey, even within the Muscle Mommy community, there's a lot of different people that would say they fit in that category. In fact, a lot of people that love the Muscle mom aren't even Mommies, you know, but they. They. That. That look that people. So, okay, how can we serve those two? Those. Those people that are not even technically a mommy, but they like that way of training. And so that's really where this quiz is to help them. Like, okay, this. This group of women that are more like this, more like that, yet they're all. They all have a similar goal, but different enough that the messaging is going to be different for them. I just think that that's a super fun testament to that.

[Sal Destefano]

We should take the test. Even though we're not muscle moms. I'd like to see where we all fall in and do that. Maybe we'll bring that up on the next episode. Yeah. Element is an electrolyte powder you add to your water that tastes amazing. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it has the right amount of sodium. Most electrolyte powders are too low in sodium to make a difference. Not element. Thousand milligrams per serving. For better pumps, better performance, you just feel great. And again, it tastes great. Go try them out. Go to drinklement.com mindpump on that link. You'll get a free sample pack of the most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase Back to the show. Our first caller is Dennis from South Carolina. What's up, Dennis?

[Adam Schaefer]

What's going on?

[Sal Destefano]

What's up, man?

[Dennis (Caller)]

Hey. Hey, guys. How are y'?

[Sal Destefano]

All?

[Adam Schaefer]

Good. Good.

[Sal Destefano]

All right. How can we help you?

[Dennis (Caller)]

Hey, I gotta. Well, first of all, just thank y'.

[Sal Destefano]

All for all y' all do.

[Dennis (Caller)]

I know y' all hear that. Probably acknowledge them, but I, from the bottom of my heart, it's helped me tremendously with this journey that I've been going through, and I know countless others. I hear it every day with listening to y'.

[Adam Schaefer]

All.

[Dennis (Caller)]

I haven't been a listener of yalls for probably more than a year, but I've kind of caught up because I listen to you all the time. So I'm deep into your archives of all your stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

Appreciate it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you, Dennis.

[Dennis (Caller)]

So I'm just going to read what I got here, a little bit about my background. About a year ago, I was about 373 pounds when I wrote this email. I was 245. My email says 235, but I was actually 245. I smoked for 15 years, and I would drink every night, and I was always giving a reason of why. To relax, to go to sleep. It doesn't matter. I did that seven days a week, ate like crap, and then woke up about a Year ago and said, I gotta do something. This is getting out of hand. I've always been big into weightlifting, always been big into the body building scene. That, that mentality. I will eat rice and tuna fish whenever I need to. Like that's where my brain is. But I'm also that way when it goes to drinking and smoking. And I'm like, I obsessive about other things. But any case, I work out five days a week for about an hour. I get about 15,000 steps a day. I just now started wearing a weighted vest to kind of. Because I'm dropping weight. So I wanted to add more weight so that my calories would kind of stay the same burnt. I'm sure y' all will have something to say about that. I eat about 3,000 calories a day. 3,100 calories a day. I just had my DEXA scan done about three weeks ago. I can get into that if y' all need me to. I take creatine, HMB, BCAAs. After working out with a little bit of protein powder. I eat four meals pretty much from nine to five is. My meals are about two to two and a half hours spaced out with all my protein. I usually do about a cup of rice or a sweet potato or something as my carbs and then a cup of veggies. I do not eat fruit, just so you all know. And that's really about it. My main question, sorry to be so long winded, is I've trained really hard for the last year and I'm not saying that I haven't made progress. I have obviously made progress, but I'm seeing, I'm noticing my chest on my lower is. It's retaining fat. I can't get rid of it. I've. I've tried every exercise known to man.

[Sal Destefano]

I've.

[Dennis (Caller)]

I've done what I thought that I needed to do that in my lower stomach and I cannot get rid of this. I would assume it's just stubborn fat. And so I don't want to be concerned if y' all just say, hey, man, it's just going to take time and you just got to keep working at it and it'll eventually come off. Then I'm okay with that. But I don't want to be doing something wrong and not causing that, if that makes sense.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, no, you're not causing that to happen. It is stubborn body fat. I think you're doing way more than you need to. But if you love it, I think you're doing okay. I can tell you have that bodybuilding background. Can you tell me a little bit about that history?

[Dennis (Caller)]

Sure, yeah, yeah. I mean like I started lifting weights probably 18, 17, 18 years old, big into weights and I got into actual bodybuilding, early 20s. I didn't, I didn't compete. It was just, it was honestly just a mindset. It was, you know, lift as you could, eating, very strict, all the vitamins like it. I had a case of vitamins that I used to take that was an everyday thing. I know longer do that, but that's where my background came and I just kept researching. I research bodybuilders all the time just because they're the most in shape people on the planet. So I mean, if you're not listening to them, I'm not saying to be like them to get to 6%, 4% body fat, but they just, they had it down, but it's hard to do. And so I did that for years and then I had, and then life hit me upside the head. I was 30s, I partied then I, then I would go back into it and train and I would get down to, you know, an inch shape weight feature. And then I know there's something in my life would happen and it's been a roller coaster, which I've heard you talk about in the podcast. That's probably one of the worst things to do is to go in and out of gaining weight, losing weight, gaining weight, losing weight. And so this is like my final straw. I'm not, this is it. So I'm, I will maintain something along these lines for from here till I'm not on this earth anymore.

[Sal Destefano]

What makes you convinced that this is different?

[Dennis (Caller)]

My daughter, number one, I, I, I've, I have a daughter that, she doesn't live with me, but I, I know, I just, it hit me one day a year ago that I got to be here for her. Instead of being selfish for myself and wanting to drink and smoke and do all the stuff I used to do, I really, I really wanted to focus on having and maintaining a life for her. And the older I get, the more I know that my health is more important for her and not just for me. So I guess not being selfish was my biggest thing. I just said this is, I gotta stop. And so this is the longest I've ever been consecutively on this strict of a. Like I don't, when I say I don't cheat, I don't cheat. Now I'm not against it. I'm not against if my wife wants to go and grab a, a burger or Something. I'm not gonna say no, but I will take the buns off, and I'll eat. Like, that's just what I do. I am strict.

[Scott (Caller)]

Strict.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, what you said was. I mean, it's a very powerful motivator. There's nothing like being a father. But do you mind if I dig a little deeper?

[Dennis (Caller)]

Sure, absolutely.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Part of my brevity. Because I hear a lot of me in you. Okay, so I know you said it's for your health and longevity. Why are you worried about stubborn body fat on your pecs and your lower abs, then?

[Dennis (Caller)]

Just because I. Yeah, that's true, man. That's a good question. I don't know, because I guess I feel like I'm working so hard, and I want to look a certain way in my brain. I want to look a certain way. That's where my head is.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm gonna help you with this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Careful with that.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm gonna help you with this, Dennis, because your. Your true motivation. I know there's a part of you that is doing it for your daughter, but there's a very strong part of you that's actually stronger, that is more focused on how you look. It's more focused on for you and all that. And I get it, because that happens to me all the time. And here's. Here's my warning to you, Dennis. If you don't change that, I promise you, you'll fall out again. I promise you. I would bet everything. I'd bet my whole company on it, that you'll go back to the old extreme where you get back into drinking, smoking, eating or whatever. So if you don't. If that. That part right there is what you're gonna have to tackle and wrestle with. Otherwise, it's going to be on and off again.

[Adam Schaefer]

Especially when you're. You're pushing and doing it as hard and as strict as you are, because you. You said it already. It's like, man, I'm putting all the work in I'. Child. I'm disciplined. And I ain't seeing these results, like, because. Because you're still tied to the physical results from everything you're doing right now. You feel like that's where people break, because they go, man, I've been killing it. I'm doing everything perfect. I'm not getting the look I want. Why am I even wasting my time doing this? And that's what causes the off and on right there. Versus going, man, I'm just a dude that works out five days a week. I'm healthier. I'm stronger, this is what I do than I've ever been. I'm, I mean I'm, I'm added mirrors back to my life by the way. I'm taking care of myself and being actually very proud of where you came from and where you're at and how consistent you've been. And it's more become just a lifestyle that you live. And yeah, you know what, over time it's, it is going to just. You will get better and the, and the body fat will continue to give, especially if you're that dial. But if you connect your how dialed and how hard you're making an effort towards this, towards the way you look, that's going to let you down. And what's crazy is even when it gives you results, it'll still let you down because you'll just move the goalpost and you'll be. Keep moving the goalpost versus man, you're, you're doing great. And I think that was Sal's first, you know, questioning like you're doing a lot. Like you're training, you're training a lot, you're moving a lot, you're putting a lot of effort.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, you're treating this like a bodybuilder with your routine, your diet. I mean, I see your email and you're breaking it down. I see, you know, peptide stack, testosterone. You're doing it like a bodybuilder is which, you know, for the purposes of looking a particular way. And I'm just going to add to this, Dennis, you will never be satisfied. It will never give you what you're looking for and eventually you'll bounce in the other direction. Now, here's the second thing. I'm going to tell you that I think this is going to sell you on what I'm saying. If you do this for the right reasons, you'll actually get the look that you want. But here's the kicker. You can't care about the way you look, so you got to stop caring about that and really just refocus on the most important reasons and placing that first, which is health, longevity, mobility. And it'll start to direct you in actually a more appropriate way of doing things. It'll reduce your risk of injury and you will get the look you want. There'll be a point where you'll look in the mirror and be like, oh my God, this is. But if you don't do that and you chase a look, it's, it's like trying to catch your shadow. It'll, you'll Never get there. It's always gonna be in front of you no matter what happens. And I, I've been to 6% body fat. I've done. It's never, it's never enough.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, it's actually really good timing that you're calling in right now because Sal's series just kicked off and this is a lot of his series is about his lifelong struggle with exactly what we're talking to you about right now. So, so definitely make sure you're following along. I know the first episode just went live. I don't know when the second one.

[Sal Destefano]

Second one will be up by the time this today.

[Adam Schaefer]

And this is Mind Pump TV on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, we'll send you the link to the first episode. Check it out, Dennis. And you can see like, I, I hear me and you. That's why I went straight. That's why I went real straight with you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So. Because I'm not. There's no advice I can give you fitness wise. I mean, I could give you a program. I could tell you which program is better, but if we don't, if we don't take the route and really tackle that, it's not going to help and you will fall out. I'm going to tell you this right now. It will, you will go back. Dude, I just.

[Dennis (Caller)]

I'm sorry.

[Sal Destefano]

Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, no, do your thing. Go ahead.

[Dennis (Caller)]

I was just going to say. Yeah, I honestly have never thought of it the way I've been putting it. And as soon as you said it, I was like, well, that makes a lot of sense. But I guess also deep down in my being and what Adam says, yeah, I am doing all this stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, you cut out.

[Dennis (Caller)]

Like, oh, there it is. If it, if it takes me another year to get to wherever I want.

[Adam Schaefer]

To get to, so be it.

[Dennis (Caller)]

But I want to make sure that I'm not messing it up.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no, you're doing the right things, bro. You're, you're diet.

[Sal Destefano]

I think you're doing more than you need to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You could do less and still get to that place.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

So. But it's like Sal was saying, if you loved working out five days a week, keep it going. But you're, you're doing more than enough. Enough to continue to change your physique, continue to get stronger, continue to lose body fat. And you're, you're feeding, you're feeding yourself appropriately, calorie wise. You've got a good focus on protein. You're hitting all the Right. Vitamins and supplements. You got your hormones balanced out because you're taking tr. I mean, you're doing all the right things. It is just a matter of time. But I think Sal's just wanting you to let the. The sooner you let go, the sooner you'll be happy with where you're going and where you're at.

[Sal Destefano]

Dennis, here's something I'm gonna do something I've never done before. I don't know who you are. So. So what I'm going to do, and I'll never, I probably will never do this again. I'm going to have Doug send you a link to my series and he's going to give you my cell phone number and I want you to text me when you have questions or whatever struggles with this.

[Dennis (Caller)]

Oh, absolutely. That's awesome. Thank you so much. That means the world to me.

[Sal Destefano]

As soon as we get off, he'll send that over to you and then you watch the series and then let me know what you think and then we'll see if we can't get you on the right path, my friend.

[Dennis (Caller)]

Cool. Can I just a small follow up question just because I've watched two or three videos that you've posted recently about the Rhonda Patrick. Yeah, I think is her name.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep. Yep.

[Dennis (Caller)]

And so I know that you said Sal because I saw you on Instagram say, you know, she's not wrong. I get, I get the philosophy behind what she's saying and what you're saying. But as a person, like I've told you what I do, is it better for me to do walk or am I strong enough? I should be doing hit to get more fat off my body or it doesn't even matter.

[Sal Destefano]

It won't make a difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

It won't.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're checking all the boxes you want.

[Sal Destefano]

If you want more extra stamina and endurance, you can, man. It'll probably, you'll probably have to reduce your strength training. Yeah, but it's intense.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's already, he's already teetering on overdue too much. That, that's just flirting with that. Like you're. You could actually scale down to four days a week or a three day a week and see as much results as you possibly are. And I have no idea what the outside forces are going on as far as stress levels in your life. And so if depending on how that is, what you're currently doing right now could even be a little too much. So adding something that's high intensity, like high intensity, like interval training help won't help. It'll only. It'll only flirt with that line even more, if not cross over that line. What you're doing right now, brother, is more than enough to continue to build a good physique. It's just. It's going to be. It's a slow process. It's going to have peaks and valleys, but you're not try. When you. Your first original question, you ain't it up. You ain't doing anything that's messing that up. You're on the right path. But I agree with Sal. Like, we got to get to the place where we're reframing kind of the goal, because even when you reach whatever this. This picture is, it'll change. It just does. It'll. It will. It'll be. It's that. It's that. It's that shadow, like you said. You'll never catch it. You know, is the.

[Dennis (Caller)]

Is the weighted vest thing smart idea or stupid idea?

[Sal Destefano]

If you like it. If you like it.

[Dennis (Caller)]

I just feel like I'm. I. I got so used. I did what y' all said and started, you know, at 6,000 steps, and then I know what. My body adapted to it. And then I got eight, and then I had 10, and then I was just able to walk without my heart rate going up. And so. So I said, put this on and do the same walking. It should add a little extra something, I assume.

[Sal Destefano]

It does. It makes it harder if you want to make it harder and you enjoy that. But is it making a big difference? Not really. Okay, all right, cool.

[Dennis (Caller)]

Well, thank you all so much for all your help. I really do appreciate everything y' all do.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thanks, Dennis.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I had to get straight with him because I saw his email.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you could tell when he was talking to you and he said it. He, like, he could tell. He's hearing himself, and he's like, oh, shit.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, this doesn't make sense. It's for my health.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, know you. You could see it in his eye. You could see it literally as it's coming out of his mouth. He's saying. He's saying it, and he's going, damn, you're right. Like, it's the wrong focus.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And we just fool ourselves. I mean, I do it all the time, and it's. Again, it's that shadow analogy, and you just will never catch it. You will never. The most. It's so crazy. People on both ends of the spectrum are the most unhappy with their bodies. People who are totally unhealthy Obese, don't think about anything. They're very unhappy people. On the other extreme, the shredded, you know, whatever, they're just as unhappy with their bodies. It just looks different. It's a similar dysfunction, just in the opposite direction.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you have to tell the audience too, just why we're concerned about. Because what he's doing isn't crazy over training or something. But the biggest concern that I have when I hear someone like this is they're doing all the things and they're putting so much effort towards moving the needle for an aesthetic look. And when you're not getting that look that you're, you're seeking, that's when you throw your arms up and go like effort. Why am I doing all this stuff versus fitting? Figuring out, you know, maybe, maybe three days is a very easy routine for you to work out. And sometimes you get 10,000 steps, sometimes you get 8, sometimes you get 12. And you don't have this crazy regimen. It's just, hey, I'm a guy that walks. Hey, I'm a guy that gets to the gym three times a week. And it's easy and you in and the results come slowly, but it's something that you just do forever. You're not constantly measuring the work you're doing for the money you're getting paid. You know what I'm saying? So that's, that's kind of what that trap is and that's what leads somebody to the on off. Our next caller is Scott from Canada.

[Sal Destefano]

What's up, Scott?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Scott?

[Scott (Caller)]

What's up, gentlemen?

[Sal Destefano]

How can we help you?

[Scott (Caller)]

So I sent in the question there. I don't know if you guys can see it or not.

[Dennis (Caller)]

Not pretty much.

[Scott (Caller)]

I suck at dips and pull ups and that's all I really want to get better at. I. Have you guys ever heard of street lifting?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, like, like the bar, all the.

[Justin Andrews]

Bar guys and the kings and all that.

[Scott (Caller)]

Yeah, it's like powerlifting, but they just train like max dip, pull up and squat. So pretty much I'm super interested in that. But I can only train at home right now. I can't really get out because I got a, I got a one and a half year old and we got another one on the way. So I got a dip station and a pull up bar and some dumbbells and a couple kettlebells and I want to get as strong as I can on the dips and pull ups and I'm kind of lost. I've tried everything, doing negatives bands, I Don't know if it's over training. My job is pretty labor intensive. I'm walking 10 to 15k steps a day and lugging around pails and stuff. So I'm just lost. I don't know how to get stronger.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, Tell me about your job. What is it that you're doing? Is it blue collary?

[Scott (Caller)]

Yeah, it's painting, but it's, it's a lot of commercial. So it's a lot of carrying heavy pails around and ladders and. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

How's your, how's your sleep with the kids?

[Scott (Caller)]

Sleep's honestly not bad. Like we get to bed around eight, nine, so I'm sleeping at least seven, eight hours a night.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. And how's your diet?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, how are you eating?

[Scott (Caller)]

The diet's pretty solid. So back a while ago when I was about 17, I was 2:30 and I ended up dropping down to 130 in a period about eight months. Just, it was really disordered eating, but I just didn't know how to lose weight. Well, but, but over the course of the last, you know, five to six years, I've just slowly been increasing calories, focusing on, you know, getting stronger in the gym. And I've worked my way up to 32,3500 calories and I don't really ever miss protein.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, good. Okay. What does your routine look like?

[Scott (Caller)]

So right now I'm doing a Monday push day, which is I'm doing dips, push ups and an accessory movement. It's kind of inspired by the Maps 15 style that you guys talk about. And then the next day is a pull day. So it's pull ups in some fashion, whether it's dip spins or, sorry, bands or negatives or something like that. And then it's rows with the kettlebells or the dumbbells and then usually curls like an accessory. And then same idea with squats. So it's about five or six days a week. Week, but it's like half hour a workout.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, that's not bad. But you know, I think what, what might. How many pull ups and dips can you do? Because I'm going to give you some numbers to work with.

[Scott (Caller)]

So pull ups I'm looking at like one to two clean pull ups and dips I'm looking at anywhere between three and five. But some days I feel strong and I can get them no problem. And other days I just feel exhausted and there's no chance.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. All right, so here's what we're going to do. Every day you're going to practice and you want the pull ups and dips the most, right?

[Scott (Caller)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so most days you're going to practice doing them, but real low intensity and you'll practice them two or three times a day. So rather than doing a set of two where you're pushing yourself or a set of, you know, eight or whatever dips, you're going to go up, do one pull up and if you need to jump yourself up there to make it easy, do so.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or use a band.

[Sal Destefano]

Or use a band and you're going to practice, you know, so just two or three times a day you'll go up there and do a couple of those and then come back down. You're going to practice those most days and then maybe once or twice a week you do some of the accessory work and you're going to adjust your intensity based on how you feel. And what I mean by that is you're probably never really going to train hard. You're just going to practice pull ups and dips. Think of it this way, it's like you're trying to get a kickflip on a skateboard. You're just trying to get the technique. Don't worry about the intensity, don't try to make it so that you're super tired. Fatigue league. This is not bodybuilding. This is different than bodybuilding. We're trying to get good at specific exercises.

[Scott (Caller)]

Okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah. So what about the rest of the work workout routine? Like so should I still be including some sort of rowing movement on pull days? Or still trying to get better at the push ups too? Or how do I incorporate the skill training with the rest of the programming? Or should I ditch with one?

[Sal Destefano]

I, I would, I would leave almost everything else out if you really want to get good at those two lifts. And you could do something for like your legs and maybe your core once or twice a week. But you're just, you're just gonna practice a lot, that's all you're gonna do and treat it like practice. You start to get fatigued, you're done.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, most optimally you'll just have it set up. So if randomly throughout the day you can do it like multiple times, just one rep and then maybe an hour later another one rep rep and then you just keep kind of attacking it randomly throughout the day. And it's just one of those things. It's like you said, it's a practice. It's, you just, you see it, you, you go attempt it and you do it without fatigue. So you make sure you get through the mechanics of it. You get as low as you can and then, you know, grind through it and then try it again. So it's just like one of those things. Just think of it as a constant practicing type of a movement.

[Scott (Caller)]

Okay. And for the diet, where that's concerned, before the next baby comes, I'm looking to hopefully lean down. Is that something that I should be doing?

[Adam Schaefer]

While not a great strategy, sort of.

[Scott (Caller)]

Skill focused training, not a great strategy.

[Adam Schaefer]

While you're trying to also get strong at this. Yeah, that's just not ideal. And also getting ready to have a.

[Sal Destefano]

Kid, it may help because you're lighter. That's the other side of it though. So, I mean, I would eat at maintenance. I don't think you should go in a cup while you're doing this.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so just eat it.

[Scott (Caller)]

All right, guys, thanks a lot.

[Sal Destefano]

Just think of it like for energy. Just think of it like practice. You're not doing a workout. You're going out there and you're pr. Every time you walk by the pull up bar, you do one and you come down and then you're done. And then you try it again later. When it comes to dips, you do four or five and you're done. You start to get real fatigue, tired or sore, you're done, but you're just practicing the lift. And what you'll find is you'll start to get better and stronger relatively rapidly. If you treat it like bodybuilding, it's going to take a lot longer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you're not trying to get all sore from.

[Scott (Caller)]

Okay, so when there comes a point where I work my way up to a solid amount of reps with my body weight on the dip and pull up, how long should I wait before I include weight like on a belt or something? Is there a rep range you guys suggest for that?

[Sal Destefano]

No, but I mean, I like to get. I mean I like to get up to be able to do like 15.

[Justin Andrews]

To 20 pull up 15 or so.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I was gonna say at least 10. Yeah, you want to get to a point where you can at least do 10 body weight before we start loading it with like singles, doubles and triples and stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that would be a great progression though, for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

I tell you what, Scott, what, what I'll do is I'm gonna have Doug put you in our private forum. Yeah, let's follow him as you go through this process so you can kind of check in with us, let us know what you're doing and because we're doing something really unique and custom here. Right. So this isn't like the typical go follow this program. And we, we have only so much resources. We haven't seen you lift or do anything. So we're going to put you in the private forum. Share with us as you're going through it. If you have challenges, you have questions and we'll get, we'll get to where you want to go. So we'll help you, we'll help you through that process.

[Scott (Caller)]

Okay. Is that on Facebook?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Okay.

[Scott (Caller)]

I'm gonna have to make an account then. I'm not on any social media, so.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Hey, man, that's a lot of people.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. We do have, we have a lot of people that do that, that just do it. So they. So you don't even have to add anything in there. Just create one and then Doug will add you and we'll just.

[Sal Destefano]

For the forum.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Scott (Caller)]

Okay. That's awesome. You guys are amazing. I love hearing about your fatherhood. Thanks Stories And Sal, your journey is great, like with the faith based sort of thing that's going on. And I can't wait to see your series.

[Sal Destefano]

Appreciate that and God bless you.

[Scott (Caller)]

I appreciate you guys a lot.

[Sal Destefano]

So thanks, man. And congratulations on the new baby dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thanks, Scott.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Scott (Caller)]

Thanks guys. Take care.

[Sal Destefano]

Take it easy. Yeah. This, this practice model isn't typical workout programming. No.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But it is very specific.

[Sal Destefano]

It is the fastest way to get good at a particular exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

This is the thing like I had mentioned before with like junk volume, like it's irrelevant. Like all the rest of those movements are irrelevant. Like if he wants to really get good and hone in on it specifically, just do that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Prioritize it. That's it.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude. I did. I did. I know you have a story of this too. I did this with pull ups. At one point. Point I wanted to be able to do over 20 pull ups and all I did throughout the day was I'd hop on a pull up bar and do like. And at the time I think my max was like 15. So I do like 5. I put 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Done. And I just do that throughout the day. In like in no time. I got my pull ups up to.

[Adam Schaefer]

The craziest part about my story is that I actually wasn't even intentionally trying to do that.

[Sal Destefano]

It was just for fun.

[Adam Schaefer]

I was just for fun. Like it was. I had to walk past that thing just like, I don't know, a hundred or five hundred times, hit some rest in a work and I'M by myself out in the middle of nowhere. I was just bored.

[Sal Destefano]

Bored. It was just.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'd hop up, I'd do it too. I said, then go the next thing and then hop up again. Just mess. Just messing around. Like, it was literally good. Yeah. Then before I knew it, I was repping 25 pull ups. I was like, no, that was not intentional at all whatsoever. So such a. It's such a hack. But I wanted him in the forum so that we could. Because I.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. Because he could overdo it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Yeah, but this is. This is like one of those things that's hard for people to wrap their brain around because it doesn't feel like a workout. No, no. So I hope. I hope he posts in there and share some so we can kind of help him through this process.

[Sal Destefano]

Our next caller is Randy from Tennessee. Welcome back, Randy.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Randy? All right.

[Randy (Caller)]

Good morning, guys. Thanks for having me back on. I appreciate it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. How you doing, man? If I recall, you were the. You were having trouble sleeping and you thought it might be eggs.

[Randy (Caller)]

Yes, that was my initial question. I'll just give you a update on my situation and then ask my follow up question here.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Randy (Caller)]

It turns out it wasn't the eggs that. I mean, that was kind of a crapshoot thinking it might be the eggs, but. But I had to give it a shot with thinking that might be what it is. Last time I was on, you all thought it might be my cortisol levels elevated at night. Turns out that was an issue. I did the EqualiLife's bedtime cortisol test and I did their. Was it the hormone and stress test and the hormonal stress test. That was very revealing. It showed that throughout on typical day or the day. I did the test throughout the morning, afternoon and early evening, my cortisol levels were very low. Late evening, it's suddenly really high.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Inverted. Inverted cortisol. Inverted. Yeah.

[Randy (Caller)]

Yeah, that was definitely there. So I worked with one of their health coaches. She recommended some supplements for me to take to help with that and some protocols to do. I can go through those if you guys want. But to get to the point, been doing that stuff and I've been able to fix the cortisol issue. I did the bedtime cortisol test again just a few weeks ago and it showed optimal levels at night. And I've definitely noticed some improvements to my sleep since working on that.

[Adam Schaefer]

That nice.

[Randy (Caller)]

And I feel throughout the day too, like back in. I think it was in March was the Last time I was on, I could definitely feel throughout the day, throughout the mornings and most afternoon, my energy levels were down. I was feeling lethargic and take me until about lunchtime to get going on most days and then the evenings after about dinner time, I'd suddenly get this like boost of energy and be wide awake. Now it's like the other way around, which is much more optimal. I can energy levels coming up much quicker in the morning. I'm able to get going much quicker in the evenings. About nine o' clock, energy's down and I'm getting tired and it's like time to go to sleep. So definite improvement there. I feel like my sleep is still not optimal despite improving quite a bit. Most nights I don't wake up nearly as much in the middle of the night as I used to, which is good. But I still tend to wake up after about five and a half, six hours and then can't go back to sleep after that. Even though it kind of feels like my quality of sleep is good, duration still isn't great. And I think what's going on is there's a tendency for my body temperature to be elevated at night. That seems to be an issue. And so my question now was, and it seems to correlate to when I do my workouts too. For reference, right now I'm running Maps Cardio and I'm in phase three and I'm doing the four workouts, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays and Saturdays. Seems to correlate in the days I do my workouts those nights. Body temperature seems to be more elevated at night. And I was wondering what kind of correlation could there be between when I'm doing my workouts and how I'm doing them and how that might affect body temperature at night when I'm sleeping.

[Justin Andrews]

What time are you doing your workouts?

[Randy (Caller)]

First thing in the morning.

[Sal Destefano]

It's not the workout, it's not the workout, it's not the workouts. But they are probably too intense for you and that's why you're waking up. So you might be getting a little bit of a sugar dump at night, the stress response. So you can see that with a cgm. But, but even if you don't, I mean, if a workout, if a workout plan is causing insomnia, that's one of the clear signs that it's too much over stress for your body.

[Randy (Caller)]

I, I, I was wondering about that because I don't, I thought for sure, you know, the Maps cardio program wouldn't be too much for me for, for Reference. I don't know if you guys remember last time. I did mention last year for pretty much the back half of last year I was over training, just doing too much volume and intensity and weightlifting and running and I ended up injuring my back about a week before Christmas. That was, it was either a slip disc or herniate disc in my lower back. Fortunately the, the back is better. I don't have any issues with the back now. And I have to, I have to give a shout out to. I hope I'm saying his name right. Dr. Aaron Horschig. He's a squat university guy. I bought his book Rebuilding Milo. Fantastic book on how to assess and treat weightlifting injuries. It was pretty much the chapter on the back in that book that helped me fix my back.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, old, old habits die hard, Randy. So yeah. So if, if this is optimal and you were here with over training, you're over here now. Yeah. But you're still over training. And insomnia, especially on the days you work out is a cleat. It's one of the clearest signs.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a big one.

[Sal Destefano]

That is too much. And I know cardio. I know the program cardio. It's a lot 15. If you switch to mass 15 and just focus on walking with it, your sleep will fix within a week. Week.

[Randy (Caller)]

That's what I suspected. The other thing that happens is seems to be a tendency, whatever muscles were worked in a specific workout, those like the next one to two nights, those specific muscles will feel like sore when I wake up.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's just too much.

[Randy (Caller)]

The sores will go away during the day. When I'm moving around, everything during the day feels fine. It's just because those particular muscles that got worked most recently tend to get sore, inflamed when I'm sleeping is what it feels like.

[Sal Destefano]

And I'll tell you what I mean just to hammer this home. I mean if you don't fix this, invert your cortisol again.

[Randy (Caller)]

Oh yeah, of course I'm aware of that.

[Sal Destefano]

And so, and so here's what happens. Sometimes. Sometimes people take themselves out of a excessive stress state. Let's say it's inverted cortisol symptom. Then they come out of it and they don't give their body enough time to acclimate and heal afterward. Just because your cortisol is back to where it was doesn't mean you're, you're done. So you know, I would go like I said, Mass 15. Focus on steps. Don't do anything crazy with cardio. Or anything like that. And within either days or a week, you'll notice an improvement in your sleep.

[Randy (Caller)]

Yeah, I noticed an improvement in the last. In the last week since, just for reference, before I started, I'm about to finish up maps cardio. Before I did that, I did map symmetry. And that was fantastic. My body felt. I did that and reverse dieted. My body felt great on that whole program. And like you just said, Sal, that's when I got to the point I thought, okay, I'm good to go. Now I can start pushing myself again.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. Nope, not yet.

[Adam Schaefer]

There.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. That's right. Do you have Mass 15?

[Randy (Caller)]

I have Mass 15 performance. I did that at the start of the year.

[Justin Andrews]

Perfect.

[Sal Destefano]

That was good.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like that one run that. You know, a last piece of advice, maybe Best investment ever. Eight sleep. I just, I. I swear by that, bro. I mean, you want something, especially if you get hot at night and you have. You run hot if you're someone like that. Oh my God. 8 Sleep is a game changer.

[Randy (Caller)]

Funny you mentioned that. I did buy an eight sleep system.

[Adam Schaefer]

You did?

[Randy (Caller)]

I got about a month ago. Set it up. It seemed to help a little bit, but not a lot. And that's when I started to think, okay, it's probably not just body temperature, it's probably right. Maybe my body's still sensitive to overtraining.

[Sal Destefano]

It helps with sleep. But if you're over trained, there's nothing you can. Yeah, there's nothing in the bed. You could have somebody caressing your head and massaging you all night and still wake up. You know what I mean?

[Adam Schaefer]

Right, Right, right. Yeah.

[Randy (Caller)]

So exactly what you guys are saying is what I thought the case was.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it, my friend. Mass 15 it. And you'll be great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Great.

[Sal Destefano]

And then stay like that for a while, Brandon. Give yourself like six months of allowing your body to heal before you try to scale up again.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'd be so surprised how much you can progress on that program.

[Sal Destefano]

You'll progress. You'll actually progress that entire time. By the way, we're not taking a step back.

[Scott (Caller)]

Oh, I'm.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm aware.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Randy (Caller)]

The unfortunate reality for me is I'm in the army. I've been in 12 years. And so sometimes there are things in the army I have to train for.

[Sal Destefano]

Of course.

[Randy (Caller)]

Like, my unit has a 12 mile foot march coming up end of September. And I'm stationed here at Fort Campbell, home to the 101st Airborne Division.

[Sal Destefano]

I forgot about. I forgot about that. Randy, you need to live Once a.

[Randy (Caller)]

Year we have to do a 12 mile foot march and we have, you know, with combat gear and a 35 pound rucksack, we have to try to finish in three hours or less.

[Sal Destefano]

Listen, you're still in the military. You need to live in math 15.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Sal Destefano]

You should just live there.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the best compliment for that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude, you're already doing a lot. It's going to be the best. It'll. It'll make everything better.

[Adam Schaefer]

You live there and then when you know you have something like that coming up, you train in that short period of time for that specifically, specifically for that. And then you're back to map 15.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

When you know you got a challenge like that, you train for it. And you. When, especially when it comes to cardiovascular endurance.

[Sal Destefano]

Four weeks.

[Adam Schaefer]

It does not. Not even that, dude. A couple weeks. You can get. Yes, you can get cardio. This is. I always tell people that anyone played sports in high school knows this. Like it's crazy how quick, how quick we. We do hell week, right? Everybody did it in basketball, football, whatever sport you played. And you come from completely deconditioned summer shade where you were just hanging out with your buddies and some of that to one week of hell of running cardio. And the next thing you know, you already have the great. Now of course you continue to improve, but 80% comes back right there. So you could get a long ways just in a week or two of training for whatever set event. You don't have to be training for months to get that endurance.

[Randy (Caller)]

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that. That was my, my first thought was neck next month till that foot march, do the cardio training I gotta do for that. And after that go back to like a master.

[Adam Schaefer]

There you go. There you go. You're on the right track.

[Kyler (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Randy (Caller)]

I have to say one more thing. Sal, you said one thing. Last time I was on. That was a real light bulb moment for me. And the past year and a half has been like a real life transition period for me. I was married for five years and then my ex and I split over a year and a half ago. We finalized our divorce a few months ago. And Sal, you said last time when you got, when you went through your divorce, I think you said it was two days after you and your wife at the time had that conversation and Bree decided to get a divorce two days later. You hit several PRs in the gym.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Randy (Caller)]

And it was because the stress of that, dealing with that kind of major life change can be like A performance enhancer Temporarily. Yeah. And it can give you a false sense that, oh, I'm progressing and I can push myself harder when really it's. I would say it's more like an artificial enhancer because it's just spiking cortisol and adrenaline.

[Sal Destefano]

My body thought a bear was attacking me. It was a stress response and I was hypomanic for a little bit before it crashed.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Randy (Caller)]

So after you said that last time, that was. I had a moment where I said, okay, I gotta be honest with myself. I've got underlying stress here that I've not dealt with and I totally start dealing with that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Good for you, Randy. Good for you, bro. You're self aware. You're on the right track, brother. You do good.

[Randy (Caller)]

Yeah, I think so.

[Adam Schaefer]

You are good stuff, man.

[Randy (Caller)]

All right, well, thanks again guys. I really appreciate it.

[Sal Destefano]

Take it easy. Yeah, it's good. He's gonna, he's gonna do great if he goes Mass 15. But yeah, right when he said cardio I was like, okay, were some. We're doing it. It's not, not the eggs.

[Adam Schaefer]

I forgot he was military guy too until.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, me too.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then I remembered him.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, 100%. Our next caller is Kyler from Michigan. Kyler, what's happening?

[Kyler (Caller)]

Hi guys, how you doing?

[Sal Destefano]

Good. How can you, man?

[Justin Andrews]

What's up?

[Kyler (Caller)]

So just to reference my email starting off, just pleasure to talk to you guys. I've gotten a lot of advice in the past from you just watching, including Sal, your story about your father's vitamin D deficiency, which I found out I personally do have as well. Adam, your recommendation for Atomic Habits. That book was amazing. And Justin, in general, your training, advice and style has been very applicable to my personal life. So thank you guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Awesome.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you, man.

[Kyler (Caller)]

I found you around Covid when that started. Started diving deep into YouTube and watched a lot of your content and haven't missed a video since. To reference my Starting point, about 11 years ago, I was 327 pounds. I was morbidly obese at the age of 21 and height of 5 7. I turned my life around. I dropped the weight in about nine and a half months down to 185 pounds.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Dennis (Caller)]

Wow.

[Kyler (Caller)]

I started powerlifting with a few friends, got into that heavily and had to stop due to getting my second hernia. Took a year off, had some lingering pain that prevented me from coming back right away. Started getting into bodybuilding and a few other modalities of fitness. I've tried almost everything along with diets over the years. And this year I actually went for the big push. At the beginning of this year I said I'm gonna to finally get to my goal, which was 163 pounds. I know an arbitrary number, but it was half of my heaviest body weight and it was a lifetime goal and I was finally actually able to hit that March, April, May of this year and that's the photo reference that I sent in was actually me at my leanest. And ever since getting there I have experienced both an overuse injury due to excessive cycling. I do believe it's pudendal neuralgia, along with recently a grade two rotator cuff tear. I'm just kind of running into an issue to where I seem to be pushing myself too hard on a consistent basis while fixating on the dieting aspect. I know that I kept my calories too low for too long and I focused on the scale number which wasn't a good idea, at least in the long term. I stayed there too long and I'm struggling at this point in my life now that I've essentially achieved the weight loss that I've always went after. As far as what to do going forward, how do I proceed with my fitness at this point in time? As far as the style I should be focusing on, where my calories should be at, I've always used my own self programming over the 10 years and I feel pretty accomplished with where I've gotten from that. But your guys's advice above anyone else's is what I was interested in and how I should proceed considering my current main modalities of training are a combination of weighted calisthenics, kettlebells, some mace work, sandbags, things of that nature. I did recently bump my calories up from the deficit point of 2000 to 2250, now up to 2550. But mentally I struggle with eating at maintenance or in a surplus due to my history with being overweight. And I did also have disordered eating in the past, which was related to binge eating, which turned into competitive eating and excessive cardio to keep that in check. And and based off from references you've made in the past, I do believe that I have a tendency to push too hard and might fall into the category of a cortisol junkie considering I do enjoy higher intensity workouts without classifying them as. What is that called? I can't think of the word right now. Not Hy rocks, the other one. CrossFit.

[Sal Destefano]

Sorry Kyler, let me start by congratulating you on how far you've gone Dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm so impressed that he got injured and you didn't bounce back. The fact that your first injury didn't cause you to put a ton of weight on in that year is super impressive that normally, always that's what happens.

[Sal Destefano]

So most people, most people never get to the place that you're at. Okay. But the ones that do, there is another step now. So you, you're done with that phase.

[Justin Andrews]

You did all the grit and get you here, Right.

[Sal Destefano]

What that phase looks like is I have this goal and I'm fixated and focused on this goal. And you got there. Most people don't even get there, but you did. Now you have to get to the next goal or the next level, which is there is no goal. And now you have to just enjoy the journey.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Sal Destefano]

And this is going to be just as hard as the previous time was, if not harder. It is a complete mental shift because the challenge now for you is that you, because you were so fixated on the goal and you got there, you don't have the operating system to continue. If you stay with the same operating system, it's going to result in over training under eating obsession, it's going to injury, nothing positive illness. This operating system, which worked for the goal, no longer works. Now for the stage that you're at now, it's like you're driving a car and you made it to the top rev of first gear. You can't stay in first gear anymore. You're gonna. You're gonna burn out your engine. You gotta go to second and third gear and fourth gear. So the next level is how do I fall in love with just the journey? How do I become a guy who just likes to work out?

[Justin Andrews]

This is just what I do.

[Sal Destefano]

How do I become a guy that just enjoys eating healthy? And what that looks like is a bit scary because the fear is if I move out of the old operating system, oh no, I'm going to gain all that weight back. That old operating system got me here. If I move out of that, what's going to happen? Well, I know I can tell you this. First off, I don't know what's going to happen if you move out of that operating system. I think if you do what I'm saying, I know you'll do well. But I can guarantee you what will happen if you stay in that operating system. And for sure you'll injure yourself, crash out, burn out, and you'll be out of it. Your body will force you. So we have to move out of it and Again, it's about enjoying the process. So what that's going to look like from a diet perspective is you're going to slowly take your hands off of controlling everything. Now what that's going to look like is more of a reverse diet. And then on a day by day basis, you're going to stop focusing on it. Now when you start, if you start to go off the rails, which may happen if you start to take your focus off of it. Right, right now you got your hands around your diet like this, you start to take the hands off of you. Like, okay, I did that for a couple days and I just went crazy. Go ahead and grab it again and then try again and slowly take your hands off to the point where you're comfortable and you enjoy eating in a healthy way. So that's going to be a bit of a process with the workouts. Yeah, you're, you're going to do what you enjoy and you're going to stop chasing intensity. Right now you say that you love the intense workouts. That's actually not true because it's causing you so many problems. This is why you're like, this is dysfunctional. Like, this doesn't make any sense. What it is is that you, again, you were in an operating system that worked for you and you're afraid to let go of it. So really it's not that you love it, it's that you're afraid of letting go of it. So you need, you got to move into something where you enjoy the process. You're actually in it. You're like, man, I feel, feel, this feels really good. I feel really joyful. This is giving me good energy. Like I feel healthy and it's not dominating my life. Because the first operating system probably dominated your life. It did, right. So now you got to get into something where it's not dominating your life, it's just making your life better.

[Adam Schaefer]

We probably need to hear what a seven day week looks like for you. So we can probably stair step you back because ripping off the band aid typically doesn't work in this situation. You can't do it all at once. And so like give me, give me a week what the activity, exercise, movement looks like. So I can probably give you some little tips on what I do from there.

[Kyler (Caller)]

Okay, so a typical week, at least in reference to when that photo was taken, at my peak, it was push, pull, leg splits six days a week, along with anywhere between 30 to 60 minutes of higher intensity cardio, usually a 16 mile per hour hour average pace on the bike for a solid 60 minutes before I got injured. After the injury, I was no longer able to do the bike. Still to this day I can't do the bike because of the injury. So I have reduced myself to just walking. I know you guys said steps are king, so I said if they say I can do walking as much as I want, then I'm going to do that. So I ended up switching to just that. But then the push pull legs program still seemed to be too much, especially in the caloric deficit it. So I backtracked to what was it, an upper, lower, upper lower arms or andor accessory day. Then I actually ended up trying based off your recommendation as well, a full body split three days a week and just focusing on walking on my off days, which is where I am currently at majority of the time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Kyler (Caller)]

I can't quite do all of the exercises that I currently want to do to the rotation. Gator cuff overhead work is limited at least to unilateral on the right hand side. Currently dips cause a bit of too much of an internal rotation and golfer's elbow has been flaring up in my right arm, limiting my pull up capabilities.

[Sal Destefano]

How long, Kyler, how long are your full body workouts?

[Kyler (Caller)]

Typically the shortest one is 40 to 45 minutes usually if I cut rest times, which I know you guys recommend not to do. So I've tried extending them, which takes my workout to a minimum of an hour to an hour and a half.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so let me answer, let me ask a different question. How many exercises per body part are you doing and how many sets per exercise?

[Kyler (Caller)]

So I reduced it actually. When I extended the rest time, I actually ended up reducing the number of sets. Now I'm down to three. And depending on the day, I would say it's usually nine, maybe 10 different exercises that I usually end up doing. Just because I do have that, I guess you call it FOMO when it comes to missing out on working a specific body part. Because I'm trying to go for overall development not just aesthetically, but also performance wise.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, okay. Be honest with me, okay? Because I'll help you, but I can't help you if you're. So I want you to be really, really honest with the situation. If I, if I had to do a Maps 15 performance protocol where you're, you're in the gym about 20 minutes a day, most ideal, probably that's ideal. But I need to know from you for like, you got to tell me, is that doable for you or do you think you're like, no, man, I got to be in the gym more.

[Kyler (Caller)]

I like being in the gym. And again, normally I work out at home, so it is one of my favorite things to do because it essentially saved my life. But why I'm here is to get advice and recommendations from you guys because I value your opinions. You are the professional. And essentially I told my wife at the end of the day, if they tell me to do something, I'm going to do it.

[Sal Destefano]

Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Good job. I'm going to send you mass 15 performance.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's do that.

[Sal Destefano]

I want you to follow that, maintain your steps, and continue reverse dieting. And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to have you back on the show in a few months so we could just check in.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're actually doing a really good job, bro. When you started the. The decisions that you made from where you were and where you're going and you're on the right track, this is.

[Sal Destefano]

A normal transition for someone like you. You lost 160 pounds. That is a radical. Radical. People just don't appreciate this enough. It is a dramatic lifestyle change. It is. The way you live versus how you used to live is so different. You're a different person. And so you got there. But now we need to move you to the next level because what served you then is not going to serve you anymore. And this is a very normal transition. This is exactly what happens to anybody who gets to the place that you got to now. The next level is going to get you to the forever part, the mental.

[Justin Andrews]

Training part of it.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Are you on. Are you on Facebook too? I'd like to put you in the private forum so we can. We can stay connected. Okay, cool. I'm gonna have Doug. Have Doug put you in there.

[Kyler (Caller)]

Thank you. I. I really do appreciate all the kind words and everything you guys have said. That means a lot. And again, I do promise that I will take your advice and follow whatever steps you tell me to. I did have an additional question of curiosity based off from my caloric intake. Currently, again, I was dieting at 2000-2250. That was just with the steps and the full body and or upper lower three to four days a week. And now being at 2550, I also increased my average step count to where a low day for me is about 13,500. And that's with 30 minutes on the treadmill in the morning before work, 30 minutes on my lunch break and then getting the rest. However, I Can throughout the day. At some point, does that become too excessive, considering it has led to general leg fatigue?

[Sal Destefano]

No. Your calories are too low.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Kyler (Caller)]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Are you okay? Look, will you be happy if you built some muscle?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

All right. Go up 500 calories.

[Kyler (Caller)]

500?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Get up to 500. Get up to 2, 900 calories and you'll. And watch what happens. Yeah. Mass 15 performance. 2900 calories. And you're just going to build muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you can keep the walking the.

[Sal Destefano]

Way you want, and you just keep doing what you're doing with the walking.

[Kyler (Caller)]

Okay, so 2, 900 calories. Map 15 Performance and walk as much as I want.

[Sal Destefano]

As much as you want. But. Okay, hold on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Keep it low intensity. No, no, no, no. Keep your walking where it's at.

[Sal Destefano]

You slip that in there.

[Justin Andrews]

Tyler, don't be doing crazy inclines.

[Sal Destefano]

35,000 steps a day. I heard you. Slip that in there. No, no, keep the walking with what you're doing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. You're going to be in the forum now. So as you go through this, I want you to reach out, tag us and talk to us as you go through this. So you have any challenges, you have any questions, you're thinking about doing something, just message us in there and we'll. We'll walk you through this. But you're. You're. You're going down the right path, bro. You're doing the right things. You're making the right steps. You got this.

[Sal Destefano]

And I appreciate the trust. I appreciate the trust. You. You'll never. You'll never have to worry about trusting us again after you do this. Watch.

[Kyler (Caller)]

I wasn't worried to start, if I'm being perfectly honest.

[Sal Destefano]

Good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Good stuff, brother. All right, well, we're. We're going to set you up. You're in there, and we'll see you again, and then we'll. We'll talk to you in there, and then we'll do a follow up on the actual show.

[Kyler (Caller)]

Fantastic. Thank you guys so much for taking my call and helping me.

[Justin Andrews]

Great job, man.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you. You. Yeah, normal. I mean, he. The answer he gave at the end was like, okay, if you trust us, because he's submitting, he's just going to do it. And I know it's going to be scary, but he's going to be blown away by the end of this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Super impressive. I mean, obviously the. The total number is impressive, but what really struck me was when he was on that path, lost that weight, then got hurt.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Got hurt to where he couldn't. He had to completely pull back for almost a year on stuff and to not put that weight all the way back. Yeah, just man know that, that the discipline to go through that at that, that time right there. Very few people, very few people can take the weight off and keep it off, much less suffer a major injury and not put it back on. I mean that's some serious discipline.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, if you like our show, come find us on Instagram Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy at and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and open over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Randy (Caller)]

Hi, I'm Chris Gethard and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous.

[Adam Schaefer]

A podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number. Thousands of people try to call you.

[Randy (Caller)]

Talk to one of them, they stay anonymous.

[Sal Destefano]

I can't hang up.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's all the rules.

[Randy (Caller)]

I never know what's going to happen. We get serious ones.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm talked with meth dealers on their way to prison.

[Randy (Caller)]

I've talked to people who survived mass shootings. Crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a.

[Adam Schaefer]

Goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as.

[Randy (Caller)]

A pirate on the weekends. I never know what's gonna happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful Anonymous.