← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2684: Do ONLY These 8 Lifts to Achieve an Amazing Body
01:42:21
Mind Pump Fit Tip: Do ONLY These 8 Lifts to Achieve an Amazing Body. (1:49) Probiotics are the best fat burners! (22:29) Adam’s evolution with his diet & exercise. (27:44) Functional Justin. (34:12) The Botox stack. (37:37) Due...
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- [00:00]
Sal Destefano
Introducing Family Freedom from T Mobile. We'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone16128 gigabyte $8 $29.99 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen.
- [00:33]
Caller Matthew
And it's up to Donkey Kong and.
- [00:35]
Sal Destefano
His buddy Pauline to get them back.
- [00:39]
Caller Matthew
This unlikely duo is going on a.
- [00:41]
Justin Andrews
World smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities.
- [00:45]
Caller Matthew
To explore an underground world and the.
- [00:48]
Sal Destefano
Power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 enough only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.
- [00:59]
Justin Andrews
If you want to pump your body.
- [01:00]
Sal Destefano
And expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.
- [01:08]
Justin Andrews
Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.
- [01:12]
Sal Destefano
You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in history. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we had callers call in. We got to coach them on air with their fitness, but this was after the intro. Today's intro is 58 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness and fat loss and supplements. Talk about conspiracy theories. Today it's a good time. By the way, if you want to be a caller on one of these episodes, email us your question. Send it to liveindpumpmedia.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Seed. This is the world's best probiotic. By the way. Probiotics have been shown to enhance fat loss. It's true. Probiotics are probably the most effective fat loss supplements you could take based on the studies. Anyway, go check them out. Go to seed.com mindpump Use the code 25mindpump Get 25% off. This episode is also brought to you by Luminos by Entera. They have this combo of products they call the Botox combo. These are peptide enhanced skincare products. Peptides are powerful. Okay, nothing works as effectively as peptides when it comes to changing the appearance of your skin. And Luminose by Entera has the highest concentration. Anyway, check them out. Get 10% off. Go to Lum. Go to enteraskincare.com that's E N T E R A skincare.com mpm Use the code mpm. Get 10% off your order. Also, we have a quiz for you ladies. See if you are a comeback queen, efficient, powerhouse, strength novice, or lifestyle integrator. Which one do you fall under? Get some personalized advice. It's a free quiz. Go to musclemommymovement.com quiz all right, here comes the show. Strength training you already know. It's amazing. It's the best form of exercise to shape and sculpt your body, build muscle, burn body fat. It's great for health. That's awesome. But it can be complicated. Here's what we did. We're going to give you the eight lifts. That's it. Just these eight lifts. If you just did these. And that's it. You get an amazing physique with balance, muscle strength, functionality, fat loss. You look great. We're going to break them down. Here we go.
- [03:15]
Adam Schafer
I mean, I saw this list and I would make the argument that you could damn near just do these eight things for the rest of your life and you'd be.
- [03:22]
Sal Destefano
That was the goal.
- [03:22]
Adam Schafer
You would be pretty, pretty well balanced. Not just looks wise, but functional and health. Yeah. No, these are, this is, this is it right here. If you just did and get. And what's great about them, not to get ahead on all of them and so with that. But they all have a lot of room for improvement, you know, and treated like a skill. Like improving upon the, just the, the, not just the strength of them, but the movement of them. Like, boy, these would just. You would reap so many benefits.
- [03:54]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. There's a few things, right. To consider, obviously, how you look. Right.
- [03:58]
Adam Schafer
A program called the Great eight that's.
- [04:00]
Sal Destefano
Hey, maybe grade eight got a ring to it. They're, they're, you know, you want the exercises that build the muscle, that give you the look, that help burn body fat. But you also want functionality, even if you're not an athlete, because if you don't focus on functionality, over time, you'll develop problems, longevity. And then you're not able to do all these great exercises. So you want that as well. And also functionality contributes to symmetry and balance in a physique so you don't end up looking imbalanced or causing problems in that direction. So we literally picked the exercises that again, like what Adam said, if you just did this forever, you'd be good. Yeah, you'd be great. So. And we wanted to simplify it because strength training can Be very complex, like strength training. Programming can be some of the most technical program that exists when it comes to exercise. Other forms of exercise, they benefit from good programming as well, but they can be a lot easier to figure out than strength training. So we simplified it and we picked the best exercise that covers all your body, your entire body, and different ways of moving different planes of motion. And so we'll start with the first one. Okay. We'll start with the king. They call us the king of all exercises, the squat. Now why did we pick the squat over a leg press or another machine or even, you know, another lower body exercise? Well, the squat involves pretty much the entire body. You have to have good core stability. You have to have good thoracic strength and mobility to hold the bar. And then when you squat, you get this real great full range of motion that strengthens all of the muscles of the lower body, from the hips all the way down to your ankles and even your feet, if you perform them properly. And the squat will develop an incredible lower body, but also an upper body that can support the lower body. So it gives you all of that stuff. So they call it the king of exercise for a reason, and that is because it produces incredible, incredible, incredible gains.
- [05:58]
Adam Schafer
And you could spend years consistently doing this.
- [06:03]
Sal Destefano
It's always going to give you.
- [06:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I mean, I still, I don't think I'm a great squatter. I'm a good squatter.
- [06:10]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [06:11]
Adam Schafer
I've been working at it for a really long time. And so, and that's not a bad thing. That's a, it's a good, it's, it's great that that movement is so valuable, so complex. And the, the, the longer that I can continue working at or working towards being a great squatter, I can continue to reap benefits from it. And so it offers a lot total body wise, muscle building wise, functional wise and improvement wise, which is, I think, why it's been crowned the king of all movements.
- [06:43]
Sal Destefano
Yes. And when, even when it comes to just building muscle, it's a, it's a phenomenal exercise. For building muscle. There's, there is pretty much no exercise that'll compete with the squat. Generally speaking, for developing the lower body from the glutes to the hamstrings of the quads, you even get ankle mobility and some calf involvement.
- [07:02]
Justin Andrews
It's a primal movement pattern.
- [07:04]
Sal Destefano
That's right.
- [07:05]
Justin Andrews
This is just one of those fundamental exercises you have to include. I mean, even to the point of like, mechanicalistically, there's pressure, internal pressure within your body and this helps to depressurize, you know, all of that just by sitting in that squat. And so there's just, there's all these, like, benefits to squatting that people don't even realize.
- [07:26]
Sal Destefano
I'm so glad he said it was foundational. If you don't squat and train this, you'll lose this ability even if you leg press all the time. So you could leg press for your entire life, develop, you know, strong legs and not be able to do a good squat. Now, the reverse is not true. If you practice squats and get good at them, you'll always be able to get on a leg press and perform a leg press. You'll always be able to get on a hack squat and do a hack squat. You'll always be able to do all those movements. But because it is foundational, it contributes so much to everything else. And then again, from. Again, from a development standpoint, if you're just interested in that, you really can't compete with the barbell squat. Next, we have the deadlift. This is picking something up off the ground.
- [08:09]
Adam Schafer
Another very, very close second. I mean, I.
- [08:14]
Justin Andrews
Arguments for both.
- [08:15]
Adam Schafer
I have, yeah, I've made arguments. We've had podcast episodes where we've. We debated this. And I've actually made the case that I think the deadlift is the ultimate, just purely because how much we do in the anterior plane and how much we neglect the posterior chain. And so. And it's not that the squat doesn't include that also, but it's a little more anterior driven than it is posterior driven. And I think that focusing on all those. That entire backside just brings people back into better posture and alignment. And, and it. And then it also carries a lot of the similar benefits as the squad does. So I, I can make the case that this is. This is one and two are interchangeable, right?
- [08:58]
Justin Andrews
Counter. Yeah, it's such a great point to counter daily life on your movement patterns, they're all anteriorly driven. So it's like, yeah, this is such a great counter to that.
- [09:08]
Sal Destefano
And if you get, you know, good at deadlifting and don't neglect other planes of movement, that's important as well, which we'll get to. But if you get good at deadlifting, you get pretty close to bulletproofing your back. I mean, low back issues are so. And I know some people are like, oh, deadlifts are bad for your low back. No, they're not. A properly performed deadlift is amazing for you. Not improperly performed deadlift is like an improperly performed any other exercise. Where the risk starts to skyrocket.
- [09:33]
Justin Andrews
It's got to be appropriate.
- [09:34]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. But if you do it right, good control, good stability, the right amount of weight. Challenge yourself. You're going to develop strong hips. You're going to develop a really solid, strong low back, a strong mid back. You're going to activate your lats. Your grip is involved. You have an isometric contraction of the biceps. Even it's. And it develops a nice looking physique. I can often tell when somebody doesn't deadlift. When I look at their back. I can tell when somebody just does other back exercise. You can see it in the lack of depth. Dude.
- [10:04]
Justin Andrews
It's impossible to build holding a lot of weight.
- [10:07]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [10:07]
Justin Andrews
You know, whatever argument somebody wants to make. It's just like if you're holding a substantial amount of weight, your body's gonna. Yeah. Form into that.
- [10:16]
Sal Destefano
Totally. Next up is the overhead press. I mean standing overhead press. When you push a weight overhead. This was by the way, for a long time, this was the way that strength athletes demonstrated their strength. This is how they competed. It didn't matter what else you could do. If you could pick something up over your head, then you're pretty strong. And let's see, you could do the most with that way. This is what strength athletes did for a long time. It is a shoulder exercise, but when you're standing and you're pressing something overhead, it's. You got to be stable. The whole base has to be stable to press up overhead. So you have to have strong lower body stability. You have to have good core stability. This promotes incredible shoulder function. The scapula has to move in a good way with the humerus. You have to have good mid back stability. To press straight up overhead involves the triceps. It's a, it's an exceptional. It's actually the most functional pressing movement, the pinnacle.
- [11:13]
Justin Andrews
Upper body exercise.
- [11:14]
Adam Schafer
I, I think we do it a disservice by calling it a shoulder exercise.
- [11:18]
Sal Destefano
That's right.
- [11:19]
Adam Schafer
It is the squat of the upper body.
- [11:21]
Sal Destefano
Literally.
- [11:22]
Adam Schafer
It would be like calling a squat a quad exercise.
- [11:24]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [11:25]
Adam Schafer
And leaving it at that when it's like. It's so much more than that. The overhead press is the squat of the upper body. And it, it incorporates so much of your upper body and requires so much good, so, so good of mobility and stability to do that. Especially a full range of motion. Right. All the way down, all the way up, full extension and the ability to stabilize with your core. And that standing. I mean you, it is far more than just a shoulder Exercise. And to call it just a shoulder exercise does it disservice because you would never call a squat just a quad exercise.
- [12:00]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, any weak point in the kinetic chain will get exposed really quick with this exercise. And I think that's, yeah, that's why we hold it to such a high regard because you really do have to put a lot of work in to pull it off.
- [12:13]
Adam Schafer
And it's also, you know, we talk about a lot, we tell a lot about our, our personal journey in working in gyms and the evolution of, you know, how cool it was to see the squat getting introduced to that. I, I'd actually say that the overhead standing, overhead press is still neglected. It is, it is.
- [12:29]
Justin Andrews
I don't see it very often.
- [12:29]
Adam Schafer
I'm gonna say it's the, it's the squad of the 90s.
- [12:33]
Sal Destefano
Yep.
- [12:33]
Adam Schafer
Right in the 90s when we saw the squat Scott racks, squat racks, dust all over it. Nobody ever doing it. You could still go to the gym today, commercial gym, with lots of people working it, and actually not see an overhead presto.
- [12:45]
Sal Destefano
No, no, no.
- [12:45]
Adam Schafer
I mean, think about that for a second. I mean, no, it's true. And we talk about it as, it, as being the squat of the upper body. It is that valuable, it's that fundamental, it's that good for you to get good at it, yet it's being utilized like squats were 20 years ago.
- [13:00]
Sal Destefano
Well, just to give an example, an athlete who could do a standing overhead press with 135 pounds with good technique, good stability, is going to be more dangerous on the field than a guy that could seated overhead press £185 or even £200. That's how much more functional it is. Because when you're pressing like that, you got to have everything else supporting you. Yeah. You know, you're not just sitting and pressing something up. Now, seated presses are great. You know, they hit the shoulders and you know, the bench is kind of holding you steady. It's a good bodybuilding exercise. But move to overhead press and see what happens. First of all, you won't lose shoulder size, but what you will gain is a stronger kinetic chain all the way through. But great observation. I agree 100%. Next up, we have the incline press. Now, you could say bench press would be in there, but I'll argue that the incline press, both from an aesthetic perspective, it'll develop a nicer looking chest and also from a functional perspective, there's more carryover into the real world because when you tend to be pressing things, you tend to lean into them and not lean away from them. But mostly this is just aesthetic. Like if you only ever did incline presses, you'd have a nicer looking upper body than if you only ever did bench press.
- [14:07]
Adam Schafer
No rebuttal for me. I've been arguing for the incline press over the flat bench press for so long you get a better range of motion motion. The average client, their technique and form will be naturally better because it just puts you in a more advantageous position when you go get into it. The aesthetic reasons of building the upper shelf of the chest, I think like you're making right now I just functionally.
- [14:30]
Justin Andrews
Risk, reward, like and I went through this a lot, you know, because I definitely hold the bench press, you know, up there is like one of the main ones to, to focus on. But yeah, in terms of that, like having just that grade of incline, like really sets your shoulders up in a nice position. Like you can really load it substantially so you get all the benefits just a little bit less risk.
- [14:51]
Adam Schafer
I almost never flat bench ever anymore. I mean even if I might play with the degrees of the bench where I might go down to like 15 degree and like it is like kind of a lower incline. But I never do completely flat anymore. Incline bench and maybe just a little bit lower than like your traditional 45 or whatever. What the gyms are set at that 15 to 45. Playing in that, that degree for me is all I ever do anymore.
- [15:15]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Next up is a row. Rowing is one of the best back exercises you could do. Now why a row? Why not a pull down or a pull up? All great exercises. And I think pull ups are phenomenal. But people mostly lack or the issues that they tend to. What you tend to see with people's back mobility and strength and stability oftentimes is in the mid back forward shoulder is quite common. You row and you row well, you're going to have good healthy thoracic strength. Whereas you could do tons of pull ups which is also great. But you could ask, you could actually not solve forward shoulder by just working the lats, which is what that exercise does. Again, pull ups are great. It's actually, you know, if I had to make 10 exercises would probably be in there but a row. If I had to pick a back extension antagonist.
- [16:03]
Justin Andrews
You had to. All this chest work and overhead work.
- [16:05]
Sal Destefano
Is this, I mean rowing was always staple with clients, beginners.
- [16:09]
Adam Schafer
Every client, every. I don't think I, I, I think I know there's not a single client that I didn't do a like row.
- [16:16]
Sal Destefano
Was always regardless of their level.
- [16:17]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, exactly. Didn't matter. The goal level where at like a row is a staple movement. And that I don't think ever left a program for me. I mean, I might do some variation of it. I might move and rotate different types of. With dumbbell, barbell, some machines that would. But it's like that's a staple movement that is in every client's programming at every level, regardless of the goal.
- [16:38]
Sal Destefano
That's right. And next up, we need strength moving side to side. Like we just named some great exercises. But if you just did those, you would lack lateral strength, which you would get away with for a little while. But eventually you'd run into problems. Eventually you'd run into hip problems, maybe some knee problems, maybe some back problems, because you need that lateral strength and stability. And I think the best exercise for this is a lateral sled drag. It's extremely functional. It connects everything together. It works all the muscles on the sides. But most importantly, it helps all those strong muscles communicate well laterally and it keeps you healthy. And so I think if you're just going to do again all these exercises we list, you need to have something laterally. And I can't pick a better one than a lateral sled drag.
- [17:21]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. And I mean it just strengthens supports those muscles. Yeah. Laterally. So you do it in a way that it's not so risky as well. So this is one of those things. If it's all in the concentric part of the contraction, like, you know, we're not getting a whole lot of damage caused. Which.
- [17:38]
Sal Destefano
Right.
- [17:38]
Justin Andrews
You know, anybody can do this. And it's one of those things too. You can even implement it like on a daily type of a routine. So I love it.
- [17:46]
Adam Schafer
Well, I knew we'd have no debate from Justin on that. I mean, this is like his staple. Go to.
- [17:51]
Justin Andrews
I'm like such an evangelist for.
- [17:52]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he tried to put this in every program we ever wrote, if I recall.
- [17:55]
Sal Destefano
I did. And he usually wins.
- [17:57]
Adam Schafer
So.
- [17:57]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [17:58]
Adam Schafer
So here, here's how I look at like, okay, so you've gone through these, uh, obviously you wrote them kind of in order to. The, the. The. The first five are like the staple five of building the most aesthetic physique. In fact, you could just do the first five and you will build a great looking physique. Then I look at the last three that you put in that you're going. And lateral sledge.
- [18:16]
Justin Andrews
This is like supporting it.
- [18:17]
Adam Schafer
Exactly. This is what will. Will. This is the health side. This is the Side that's going to protect your joints and overall movement, the functional side. So it's like. I think most people are familiar with the big five. We talk about the big five all the time. They tend to be in anybody who has rights of good programming will. These last three are the three that will protect you forever, in my opinion.
- [18:38]
Sal Destefano
Yes. Yes. Because if you don't do them, those big five, eventually.
- [18:40]
Justin Andrews
Hips, knees, ankles. Yeah, we gotta protect them.
- [18:43]
Sal Destefano
You'll hit a problem. You'll hit some issues. All right, next up, the windmill. This is a rotation exercise that moves you in different planes of motion. It really protects the spine. This is phenomenal for the spine, and it does address a weakness that you often see in people who deadlift and squat a lot, which is that strength and rotation. The strength and the ql.
- [19:06]
Justin Andrews
There's a massive deficit in thoracic rotation.
- [19:09]
Sal Destefano
Totally. Yeah.
- [19:09]
Adam Schafer
100.
- [19:10]
Sal Destefano
In fact, if you don't do these, go try and do them without weight right now. If you work out a lot and you're gonna find you can't even do one without weight. And this is me, like, if I don't practice these, I lose this ability. And when I lose this ability, I can tell when I start training them, everything else does better.
- [19:24]
Adam Schafer
This is such a good. I remember when we all first started kind of getting into women. I know Justin's been into it for a long time. It was really him challenged us to do more of it. And I remember how glaring it was. Like where. Where the holes in my movement patterns were and the breakdown. Because the. The thoracic mobility, the shoulder mobility and stability required to this. Your ability to rotate. Yeah. Equally on both sides. Because what you'll find with a lot of people, they. They might be okay on one side, and then the opposite side will be really bad. And that just gives you so much insight into probably why you have some chronic pain on one side or why you're having issues or you noticed imbalances. I feel like this really helps you re. Recognize that. And then if you just make sure if, like the goal was, I just want to get great on both the left and the right side here to where I can get them looking almost exactly the same. If you accomplish that, I'm willing to bet that you've got minimal to no chronic pain going on through most of your body. Because if you have a even and evenly distributed community communication down the connect chain on both sides here equally. And you're equally strong on an exercise like this, you're probably pretty well balanced through your entire body in order to.
- [20:43]
Justin Andrews
Perform this move, you're resilient to lateral and rotational forces. Like you could go so much further in your training and getting back to like the lateral sled drag and all this for the lower body. It's like if people just considered that fact alone, like they would have so much more progress and less plateaus.
- [21:01]
Adam Schafer
Well, I also think of a lot of my clients like the, the this is, this was definitely this highlighted to the. The weakness in my programming as a trainer, as an early trainer, you know, even as I started to evolve and get better, I understood like balance aesthetically but from the functional side of protecting clients. And I would always have clients get in my strong clients, clients that have been training for a long time and that I got in good shape and that were filling in some of the best their shape. But they would injure themselves with these, the most basic stuff. It would be like picking a shampoo bottle or pulling a weed in the garden or reaching back to feed their kid in the back seat or some. Something so little and basic. And I remember early on it baffled me like what, what's going on? I've got this client so strong, really they got hurt doing that. And this was because I lacked this in my programming. I lacked addressing this with those clients. And because I got them in good aesthetic shape and they felt strong, they were giving me all this feedback. I thought I was so on point with what I was doing. This wasn't something that came along until much later in my career is understanding the importance of incorporating this into all clients programming.
- [22:06]
Sal Destefano
That's right. Last we have a core exercise. It's the perfect sit up. It's a flat on your back exercise where you slowly articulate each of the vertebrae in your lower back as you do a full sit up. It works the obliques, works the core. It's very controlled, very low risk. I mean if you just did this and you did this with good control, you would develop an incredible core, good musculature, good aesthetics, a good functionality. Especially when you combine it with the windmill and the lateral sled drag, which really work with the lateral sides of the core. Like and again, you put all these eight together. If this is all you did, if you broke this up throughout the week and all you ever did was practice these exercises for the next 15 years. You have a pretty darn good physique. Bulletproof, with a low risk of injury. So long as you prefer.
- [22:53]
Adam Schafer
Dude, I'm so, I'm so inspired right now to write a great eight program. I just Think that's a. It's got a catchy name to it. It really is perfect. I mean, it'd be fun to write it in a very minimalist approach. Right? So instead of like trying to like the ultimate pro, it's like the. Like a very minimal.
- [23:10]
Sal Destefano
Simple.
- [23:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, very, very simple. Like you're saying, like you're just kind of practicing all these movements throughout the week to where you're spending very minimal time in the gym, but you're addressing all these movements. Oh, what a. What a great, simple, solid program that you could spend years working towards and see incredible progress.
- [23:28]
Sal Destefano
100. All right. I got some interesting studies on you for you. I gotta study on you, Adam, for.
- [23:35]
Justin Andrews
You paid for this.
- [23:38]
Sal Destefano
We've had cameras in your. Wait a minute. Do 10 months. Now. This is a study on probiotics, and this was a systemic systematic review on probiotics for preventing and treating excess weight and obesity. So this is a review of six clinical trials. They found that 66% of the studies showed significant reductions in body weight and BMI. 80% of them. So majority of them reported decreased waist circumference. And both analyzed studies noted reduced total body fat mass from probiotics. Okay, so I'm gonna put this in context for everybody. If you come. If you took all fat loss supplements. All fat. All supplements that say they help you lose fat, and you compared them with probiotics based off of just this right here and more studies. I have more here. Probiotics are the best fat burner.
- [24:32]
Adam Schafer
It sounds like this is.
- [24:33]
Sal Destefano
They're the best fabric. This is funny to me, isn't it?
- [24:36]
Adam Schafer
It sounds like this is the most. I don't. Groundbreaking or cutting edge stuff that they're finding out about pro. We've known about probiotics for a long time. We know what it does for overall gut health. We've been touting that for a long time. But the last few times you've brought these studies up, they're related to fat loss. So is that because this is relatively new that we're figuring this out? And so there's more and more studies that are going in this direction because that really wasn't the focus.
- [25:04]
Sal Destefano
Well, you know, when this started, it would. Prompted this was. They would take. Remember those studies on mice where they.
- [25:10]
Adam Schafer
Took fecal matters and they changed their.
- [25:12]
Sal Destefano
All they did was take. They took a lean mouse and an obese mouse and they took the. The microbiome of the lean mouse and trans and literally put it in the obese mouse changed nothing. The obese mouse Got lean. Yep.
- [25:25]
Adam Schafer
And vice versa, too.
- [25:26]
Sal Destefano
Yes. And, like, what is going on here? Like, what is happening? So that prompted more and more studies in these reviews, and these reviews are crazy. There was a review that really tried to break, like, what's happening. What they're finding is because they see lowered visceral fat, reduced body weight, less abdominal fat, they think it has to do with mechanisms that. That with enhanced energy expenditure. So healthy microbiome increases your metabolism. Okay. There's appetite regulation. So a healthy microbiome reduces things like cravings. And then there's just. They also just see this where it seems like your body is less likely to take those calories and store body fat. Because remember, micro. Your microbiome is what breaks the food down. Yeah. You. You have more bacteria cells in your gut than you have human cells in your whole body. I mean, you're basically more bacteria than human. So your microbiome plays this huge role in your health, which we've known by the way. It's not even controversial.
- [26:26]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, I've definitely heard a lot about the cravings being attributed to that.
- [26:29]
Sal Destefano
It's so crazy. So we have a partner, Seed, and they're just. They're the best probiotic company in the world for many reasons. But the lead researchers in the world work for this company. They get it. They're ahead of the curve. They're. They set the trends. They're the ones that do that, conduct the research. They have, again, the best product. It's crazy because I can literally say that taking seed, a probiotic is a fat loss supplement. We don't sell fat loss.
- [26:56]
Adam Schafer
It's interesting that. Can they market it that way? Why don't they market it that way?
- [26:59]
Sal Destefano
I don't know. That's interesting because if you could show.
- [27:02]
Adam Schafer
The studies indefinitely, if it's out, it's outperforming any. Anything and everything that's ever been marketed as fat loss. You know, that's. That. You know that that's a trigger for people, Right? Because there's still people buying fat loss pills that don't even work. That's how much effective the marketing works. So interesting that they wouldn't promote it as that.
- [27:19]
Sal Destefano
I don't know if you start to run into, like, potential issues or challenges that maybe. I don't want to touch that, you know, because fat loss as a category and of selling supplements, like, you got to be careful because regular regulators love to hammer them for good reason. Look at. If you've listened to our podcast, if we talk about fat loss supplements, we'll typically talk about ones that build muscle, and indirectly, you'll see some fat loss. We almost never promote like a quote unquote fat loss supplement or fat burner, because they don't do that.
- [27:49]
Justin Andrews
No.
- [27:50]
Sal Destefano
Some of them will have stimulant effects.
- [27:52]
Justin Andrews
It's more of a stimulant.
- [27:53]
Sal Destefano
Give you energy. Maybe they'll suppress your appetite for a little bit. But, yeah, probiotics literally are fat loss supplements. Which is wild. Yeah, it's so wild.
- [28:03]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. Because it's like, healthy. It's like, oh, we have a supplement.
- [28:05]
Sal Destefano
But we're gonna, what we're probably gonna see. Adam, just, you know, touching on what you said is, I think over the next five years, that will be how probiotics are advertised. I think everybody knows it's good for gut health. Then they start talking about mental health, because you see benefits there. Skin health. We see benefits there. I think over the next five years, it's gonna be fat loss. Because these, these studies, I mean, it makes sense. Yes.
- [28:29]
Adam Schafer
If they're outperforming any supplement right now, that's, that's been marketed that way. Like, and that's obviously a very good strategy for marketing something. So you would think that, that they would go that way.
- [28:39]
Sal Destefano
They should. What we're talking about. Yeah. I was going to ask you, Adam. Yeah. About your, how are your workouts going? Because. Yeah. I asked you.
- [28:49]
Adam Schafer
The lack of them. Is that what you're saying?
- [28:52]
Sal Destefano
You know, I'm saying this. Yeah.
- [28:53]
Adam Schafer
Let's hear.
- [28:53]
Sal Destefano
It was yesterday or the day before. I'm like, hey, how's your workouts going? You're like, you know, I barely have to do anything. Yeah.
- [29:00]
Adam Schafer
I'm really, I'm really, I'm really bad right now. I'm really inconsistent. I'm, I'm on a one, one day a week.
- [29:05]
Sal Destefano
You know why I'm laughing?
- [29:06]
Adam Schafer
Maybe. Maybe two.
- [29:07]
Sal Destefano
Because you always say do the least amount of work to listen the most.
- [29:10]
Adam Schafer
I'm living the brand.
- [29:11]
Sal Destefano
No, I think you're doing.
- [29:12]
Adam Schafer
Living my.
- [29:13]
Sal Destefano
Think you move to a new level. I think it's the least amount of work to achieve the least amount.
- [29:18]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I am moving into the least amount of results real soon here. So I, that's crazy.
- [29:22]
Sal Destefano
Once a week.
- [29:23]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [29:23]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [29:24]
Adam Schafer
Once.
- [29:24]
Sal Destefano
And you're maintaining really well, dude.
- [29:26]
Adam Schafer
You think so? Thank you.
- [29:27]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, you are.
- [29:27]
Adam Schafer
I appreciate that. I, I, I'm, I've definitely.
- [29:29]
Sal Destefano
You don't look out of shape at all. That's not why I asked you.
- [29:32]
Adam Schafer
I definitely, I definitely see a difference when I lose I. I can see that I can get away with the one or two day a week for a while, but after a while, I. I can tell. I just. But what's nice is that I just got to kick it up a little bit and then I'll notice that. And again, I think I've talked about this at nauseam on the show, so I apologize if it's annoying to hear, but I really. My relationship with diet in relation to exercise has really evolved in my 40s.
- [29:57]
Sal Destefano
You don't let the diet go crazy.
- [29:58]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I mean, I. I don't know about you guys, but admittedly, I guess I didn't even realize how much I actually struggle with that. I think I had a really hard time with. Because I. And I know you can relate to this, of always eating to build and to bulk and to be the big guy, because I was so insecure about being little. But what I think I realized, I never moved out of that of like, you know, until much, much later. Like, I feel like I would. I was always so afraid of missing protein. I was so like. And so I was always still pushing the calories, even if I was inconsistent on the lifting. And I'd even. And I would justify even overeating and treats and all the things because I'm like, oh, well, I don't want to get small.
- [30:34]
Sal Destefano
Oh, yeah, I feel that.
- [30:35]
Adam Schafer
And so. So it took a long time.
- [30:37]
Sal Destefano
I mean, it's like you'd rather be. You'd rather get fatter than lose. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:42]
Adam Schafer
And. And any. But logically, I don't think that, like, if you asked me, I'd be like, no, but, but, but I do. I rec. I recognized in my 30s, all the way into probably my 40s, that I was still eating those behaviors. I think I've brought it up before on the show where I remember one time I just, you know, five guys was always been a staple. Even when I was competing, I included burgers and stuff into my diet. And so, you know, burgers make their way to my diet on a regular basis. And this staple go to is, you know, I get two double doubles plus or the two, you know, double cheeseburgers or whatever. I'm. I was still ordering that. And I was. I was finding myself like, oh, my God, like, so stuffy. I'm like, what am I doing? Like, it's not even satisfied. I'm beyond satisfied. And so it took me a long time to even, like, realize, like, I'm not in full 240 pound training seven day a week. Adam, what Am I doing eating that way? And so the last four, four or five years, I've really gotten better about just being more self aware of my eating patterns in relation to my.
- [31:43]
Sal Destefano
So less energy expenditure, less energy intake.
- [31:45]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And it sounds so duh. But for just again, admittedly, like I had created so many habits, behaviors around eating a certain way that I, I, I struggled with disconnecting or moving away from that when I probably should. And so I don't know, I don't know how much somebody else can relate to that conversation or even maybe on the other side, people have had that right. Where I mean, I think we see this with live callers who've been eating to be small for so long, you know, that even when they know they need a reverse diet or gain, they can't, they can't move.
- [32:16]
Sal Destefano
I think what happens with a lot of people is when they stop working out, then they say screw the diet completely. That's probably.
- [32:22]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, that's how, and that's how I've been. And so I just, I've gotten much better about that. Is, is really going like, okay, like, you know, as much as I would love to enjoy that ice cream tonight, it's been a real low week of activity and this and that, like, this is just not gonna do it. And then the times where I am, it's like, okay, this is a day that I can enjoy this.
- [32:42]
Sal Destefano
It's also muscle memory. I mean, I pulled up here, like there's an epigenetic memory where you get modifications in your, in your muscle cells, their DNA. When you build muscle to where they kind of want to stay muscular, even if you stop training, at the very least, you build them back very, very quickly. And so what this speaks to. And I'll speak to you, you know, just about you, since we're talking about you, Adam, you've built so much muscle in the past, to the point where you were a professional competitor in the ifbb, that you had so much muscle, you've invested so much in the epigenetics that once a week for you produces a physique that most people would need to train, you know, three, four days a week.
- [33:22]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [33:23]
Sal Destefano
To accomplish.
- [33:23]
Adam Schafer
I think there's another factor that I think, Al, with the great eight that we're talking about today too, is that I remember in the, in my 20s, in my early lifting career, if I was like having this inconsistency where I'm on, I'm fall off and then I'm consistent that I'm not. I always went back to like training. I started with arms. I started with what I like to work out where I like. It's like sometimes I might just squat, but I'm definitely squatting. You know what I'm saying? I'm definitely deadlifting. Or I'm definitely like, I may not do a lot that week, but I'm the. What I do do.
- [33:52]
Sal Destefano
The important ones are going to be.
- [33:54]
Adam Schafer
The, the big movers. I don't mess around with any of the other. Unless you. If you start seeing me doing tricep push downs and bicep curls and it's.
- [34:02]
Sal Destefano
Your third or fourth workout.
- [34:03]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, exactly. That. You can almost. If you see me doing that in here, you know, I'm on workout two or three already that week because I've. And that's again, I've, I've. It's almost like a treat to me to get to do the fun machine type stuff. Otherwise I go, oh, you need, you need a squat, Adam. You need to deadlift. You know, you need to do those big movements. Get, get those in. And then I, and then I afford the right to kind of play around with the other exercises. And it served me, it tends to serve me really well.
- [34:27]
Sal Destefano
You know what's cool about this? I saw this discussion on X. There were some exercise scientists that were talking about muscle memory, and the speculation or the, the argument or discussion was around whether or not using performance enhancing substances and then going off them, whether or not you benefit from the muscle memory later. Oh, I think there's always been this argument.
- [34:48]
Adam Schafer
I know there's an argument right there. But I mean, personally, bodybuilders, I think, I think it's.
- [34:53]
Sal Destefano
So do I. I think so. But you know what, there's a downside to it, right. If you use performance enhancing substances to build a certain amount of muscle and then go off of them, and then you benefit from the muscle memory, you do run the risk of really hammering your hormone levels forever. So there's that side of it too.
- [35:10]
Justin Andrews
Sure.
- [35:10]
Sal Destefano
You know, the other side of it. So. Yeah. How's your training, Justin? I know you've been, you're getting back into it.
- [35:14]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, I've been getting back into it. I mean, somebody asked me to like, if, if I increased my overhead press now since the series, I'm like, no.
- [35:22]
Sal Destefano
Dude, like.
- [35:26]
Justin Andrews
Put 225 up every now and then just to mess around. But I don't, like, I'm not, not pushing that hard.
- [35:32]
Sal Destefano
Where are you gonna go? 400.
- [35:33]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, exactly. It's like, we're done.
- [35:35]
Adam Schafer
More, more, more, more.
- [35:36]
Justin Andrews
No, that was peak. Yeah, I, I'm so functional right now. I'm like, the biggest thing for me is to try and keep up with training with my son. And so I was actually more endurance focused right now. I'm like trying to like move in different directions and planes and, and just get back some more of that athletic type skill training. So I have actually been pretty frequent at least three times a week doing like real focused, like, sled work and a lot of kettlebell work and stuff like that. So it's, it's a lot less of barbell training for me these days. But yeah, I'm just, I'm just trying to find. Feel like I can move and, and feel like I have stability and control.
- [36:18]
Sal Destefano
I got to do more of that.
- [36:19]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I, I mean, I am too. That's actually kind of where I, I told you guys that my fantasy football league, they did a 40 yard dash to do the, to decide the draft order. And I. If they were, everybody was pissed you just accepted last. Oh, I did. I opted out. I totally opted out. And everybody was so mad at me. Fitness guy doesn't do the four yard dash, you know, And I'm like, oh. Because I know better.
- [36:39]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. But tell, tell us what happened.
- [36:42]
Adam Schafer
Oh, no, the four. Four. Okay. Actually, so five guys actually did it. Okay, Five guys did it. Five guys opted not to do it or no, excuse me. Five guys actually did it. Two guys walked it just to do it. You know what I'm saying? And then there's three of us that didn't do it at all. The. Of the five guys that actually did it, four of the five got hurt.
- [37:03]
Sal Destefano
Oh, my God.
- [37:03]
Adam Schafer
Pull the groin. Pull the quad. Pull the hamstring hip issue. Like everybody. And I'm. And, and those guys are all completely deconditioned. And I'm trying to, trying to explain this to them was like going over all their heads. And they didn't want to hear it, right. Because they just want to talk to me. But what I was trying to get them to understand is like, I'm at more risk, believe it or not, to pull the hamstring than they are because you guys are all weak. You guys are all hella weak.
- [37:27]
Sal Destefano
You can't.
- [37:28]
Adam Schafer
You have no horsepower. So the fact that you didn't pull a muscle is, Is pathetic. Right? So that's me.
- [37:32]
Sal Destefano
I'm like.
- [37:33]
Adam Schafer
Me, on the other hand, I'm still significantly stronger than all of you guys. And I, if I run them, I have no, I do not. I train that athleticism at all. And so I'm more likely to pull and tear and do something than they are. And they just did.
- [37:49]
Sal Destefano
You generate so much force, but you haven't practiced.
- [37:51]
Adam Schafer
Yes, yes. And I'm very aware. I have no business doing that.
- [37:56]
Justin Andrews
Accelerating is.
- [37:58]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, so. So I'm like, I was trying to explain that to them and of course.
- [38:01]
Sal Destefano
When I tore my hammy in Hawaii.
- [38:05]
Adam Schafer
No, it's the exact example. I mean, you're look how good a shape you're in aesthetically. Right. Aesthetically you're in fake.
- [38:09]
Sal Destefano
Not saying. Yeah, not the rest.
- [38:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, aesthetically, you're in phenomen shape. But then this is where the, the average person doesn't, it doesn't register. They think that, like, oh, well, then you should be in a way better situation than the deconditioned person when it comes to a sprint like that. It's like, no, not at all. In fact, he's more likely to hurt himself because he could deadlift 500 plus pounds. And you asked those hamstrings to go that fast? Explosively pop. Yeah. And they pop. So. Yeah.
- [38:36]
Sal Destefano
Anyway, torque, I got, you know, I got to tell you about the. What people are labeling. And this is such a great, such a great label for these two products. So Luminos by Interra. They have skincare products that are like peptide. They're all peptide based. They have. People are calling this the Botox stack.
- [38:54]
Justin Andrews
Oh, I've heard that. Yeah.
- [38:56]
Sal Destefano
Because they're saying when you combine these.
- [38:58]
Adam Schafer
Such a better thing to do, right?
- [39:00]
Sal Destefano
Yes. You're not place it. You're not deadening muscles, you know, using Botox, but you use their. And I'll pull up the two products that people are talking about.
- [39:07]
Adam Schafer
This is my first. My favorite part of this is not to interrupt you, but to tell you because this has been a topic for Katrina and I. You know, we're in our mid-40s, so all of her friends are either Botox or Facelifting. Yeah, everyone's Facelifting or Botoxing. And I'm like, I'm all for the peptide stuff. I'm like, go that route. Do everything you can naturally. Red light peptides do that stuff. So much better for you than shooting something into your face that kills the muscles to obtain a certain look. It's so crazy.
- [39:40]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. So it's their daily firming serum and then their line lifting serum, and you combine those two and people are. Are like, oh, this is like, this is like natural Botox. Like, my face looks like. It's like I gave myself after a few weeks. So It's.
- [39:55]
Adam Schafer
I mean, I know I'm biased, but I think my wife looks better than all of her friends by far who have paid for all kinds of crazy surgeries and Botox and. And that's all she's done. Katrina's never done any of that.
- [40:07]
Justin Andrews
Same boat. Yeah.
- [40:08]
Adam Schafer
Oh, yeah, that's. We're at the age parties. We're at that. We're age now where it's a. It's like Botox has become a regular thing. And then many of them are already exploring facelifts or going that, going that route. I'm just like, no, man.
- [40:21]
Sal Destefano
Did you guys see the video that is now going all over the place where there's u. It says U. S. Forces striking a drug vessel off the.
- [40:30]
Adam Schafer
Oh, I just saw. I saw it this morning.
- [40:32]
Sal Destefano
Did you see that? So these were Venezuela. These were drug. Like big time drug traffickers. And they were in a speedboat and the US Forces like hit him with a missile. You know, And I gotta say this because, okay, bad guys, I get it. Bad guys, dangerous, they probably kill people. I get that whole deal. But we gotta be careful when we allow this kind of stuff because there's no. There was no due process. There was no court order. It was like. And now you think to yourself, how can we get away with this? Because some people, like, it's a bad guy. You got to be careful with that. Because if you allow decides it's a bad guy. That's right.
- [41:12]
Adam Schafer
If you allow, and I mean, everyone in this room could probably say they were a bad guy at a point.
- [41:16]
Sal Destefano
If you allow the government. That's why we have due process. Because you got to be careful who says, who's a bad guy.
- [41:23]
Justin Andrews
Well, has this been like a long time operation that they had? Well, I kind of.
- [41:27]
Sal Destefano
Yes. Yes. And here's how they get away with it. Whenever they declare a quote, unquote war, now they follow different rules. Sure. So, you know, the government said we are now going to be.
- [41:40]
Justin Andrews
This is a muscle move.
- [41:41]
Sal Destefano
It's war against the drug cartels.
- [41:42]
Justin Andrews
Well, that's. I mean, didn't he come out already and was targeting and so. Yeah, I mean, I, I feel like they're ramping that up.
- [41:49]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, dude. And so when you say war on whatever. Yeah. What happens is they don't follow. Then they start to follow the rules of war, which is no due process. It's like, bad guy, kill him. Yeah.
- [41:59]
Adam Schafer
I mean, it does.
- [41:59]
Sal Destefano
You got to be careful.
- [42:00]
Adam Schafer
It does say under here that the, the. This terror, terrorist organization operating under the Control of Nicholas Maduro, responsible for mass murder, drug trafficking, sex trafficking.
- [42:10]
Sal Destefano
Right.
- [42:10]
Adam Schafer
And acts of violence.
- [42:11]
Sal Destefano
Oh, they're bad guys for sure.
- [42:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. But I mean, that's pretty. That's like real bad.
- [42:14]
Sal Destefano
It is, but the part that you have to be like, I'm not a.
- [42:16]
Adam Schafer
Fan of, like, not to, like, justify drug dealers like that, but it's like blowing up a boat because people are smuggling drugs is one thing. Killing somebody who is a mass murderer. Agreed.
- [42:27]
Sal Destefano
I'm just always weary of whenever we do something like that, and it's. There's no due process because it's not. We're not in war. It's like, there's an actual war going on, but when they declare it that way, then they follow those rules. And what can happen is. Because then it becomes whoever.
- [42:42]
Adam Schafer
I mean, I get where you're going, because here's the thing, too, like, it's so much of.
- [42:46]
Sal Destefano
You could always make the case very.
- [42:49]
Adam Schafer
Easy to get everyone to get behind that.
- [42:51]
Sal Destefano
That's right.
- [42:51]
Adam Schafer
Because of that. And. And what I'm always cautious of is was that the real desired outcome was that we wouldn't got a coach, bad guys. Or is that to get us all this support behind, like, yeah, get him. Oh, so we can sign that contract for $2 billion to build more missiles and to do more things. It's like, I don't know, what if. If. If that's where this is really heading and that's the whole point of all this. Definitely. Well, I'm very, very cautious of how much I get behind.
- [43:17]
Sal Destefano
I'll use. I'll use another example. Like after September 11th, we passed these bills that said if you. If the government says you're a terrorist.
- [43:26]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. They just take you.
- [43:27]
Sal Destefano
They could detain you forever with no due process. Not even tell your family or anybody, which, if you are a legit terrorist. Okay.
- [43:34]
Justin Andrews
I still can't believe we passed that.
- [43:36]
Sal Destefano
But if we had. And it's still there, by the way, we still have it. If that means that they could call.
- [43:41]
Adam Schafer
You a terrorist, none of us in here know how much it is or is not abused.
- [43:45]
Sal Destefano
It's. That's the thing.
- [43:46]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [43:46]
Sal Destefano
And maybe they don't.
- [43:47]
Justin Andrews
People going into vans and then see you later.
- [43:49]
Sal Destefano
Maybe they don't abuse it. But I think. Think if you ask anybody, even if they love the current administration or the past one or whatever, you don't love all of them. There's going to be one where you're like, I don't trust them. Well, now they have the power to say bad Guy, no, due process. And you can always point to due process and say it gets in the way. You can always say that like, no, no, no, we got to do fast. We got to move quickly. We can't take that time. We got to get these guys. But once they get over that. Now you're done. Now it's like power always wants to move quickly.
- [44:17]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [44:17]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [44:18]
Justin Andrews
And that's why we have all these checks and balances. And people get pissed off when it's slow. But you want it to be slow. Yeah, you always want it to be slow because, you know, then you really have to critically analyze is this the right move?
- [44:29]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. So when I saw that, I'm like, okay, bad guys, they probably are. I'm not making the case at all. I don't know anything about them, but I'm pretty sure they're bad guys. But I'm like a little bit like, oh man, they're just gonna. And I don't know if it was a drone launch missile or what, but you see the video of this boat going.
- [44:43]
Justin Andrews
And then of course the part of me is like, yeah, dude, of course get all these.
- [44:47]
Sal Destefano
Of course. But you know, you could be labeled. There's been times when they've come out with reports and they've said things like, you know, right wing views are, you know, this is the biggest terror threat. I'm like, wait a minute. Or radical left wing views could be. And it's like, well, who determines? Like, what do you mean by that? Yeah, and who determines that?
- [45:07]
Adam Schafer
Well, that's the thing. I got.
- [45:08]
Sal Destefano
We need due process.
- [45:09]
Adam Schafer
My point is that, I don't know. I feel like we. There seems to be. The government is playing 3D chess and then you get bits of information that they want.
- [45:19]
Sal Destefano
You sure, I don't, I don't have all the information.
- [45:21]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And so then, then you go, well, and I don't mean that in a positive way. So I mean that to. What you're saying is, you're right. Is that, you know, they're like, again, you, you like, the plan is they care about a contract going through that's going to make put line their pockets for billions of dollars and hey, well, how do we get majority support? Oh, I know what we do. We pointed all these bad guys over here and then every gets everybody stirred up of, yeah, go get them. And then we go, go, oh, by the way, we need to pass this to do that. And we're all, yeah, do it because we need to get more of those. When it's like, man, the whole. That person was used as a pawn to really get something else to get past. And it's like, to think that later.
- [45:55]
Justin Andrews
We'Re supporting the terrorists.
- [45:57]
Adam Schafer
Right, Right. So to pretend like you. To pretend like. Because you get an Instagram clip shared for you, or that Trump put something out that. You know, the whole story, come on either side, whether you support or not.
- [46:10]
Sal Destefano
Support what's cool about this. I don't know if it's cool, maybe the wrong word, but it's like, we found them. We have film of them. We're watching this boat speed, you know, off the coast, and then we watch a missile hit it, and we don't have video of Epstein hanging himself. We don't know what's going on there.
- [46:26]
Adam Schafer
Come on. That's right.
- [46:27]
Sal Destefano
Come on.
- [46:28]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [46:28]
Sal Destefano
Come on, bro.
- [46:29]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [46:30]
Justin Andrews
I'm still pissed off about this.
- [46:32]
Sal Destefano
Whatever.
- [46:32]
Adam Schafer
Stop.
- [46:33]
Sal Destefano
Dude, just stop it with all that.
- [46:36]
Adam Schafer
You know, it's nuts, because obviously we've been talking on this podcast for 10 years, and I. I have seen the. I don't think I've ever seen something switch from left to right so fast in my life. I know it is a trip.
- [46:50]
Sal Destefano
I know it's crazy.
- [46:51]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And I. And I have to check myself because obviously I lean more that direction. And so I like a lot of those narratives more than I like the other narratives. But I also am not a fool to know that that's being fed to me.
- [47:04]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [47:05]
Adam Schafer
You know what I'm saying?
- [47:06]
Justin Andrews
Same bird.
- [47:06]
Adam Schafer
Oh, man. Dude, it's crazy how quick it moves now and how quick media and everything gets behind whatever direction you know, you.
- [47:14]
Sal Destefano
Just reminded me of. Did you guys watch the new Superman? Did you guys see that?
- [47:18]
Adam Schafer
Oh, I. We heard about it.
- [47:20]
Justin Andrews
My son watched it.
- [47:21]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. It wasn't that.
- [47:22]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, it was all right. Yeah. But anyway, there was a scene in there that made me go, whoa, this is crazy. So this one scene where. I don't know if this is spoiler alert, but Lex Luthor traps Superman, and he's trying to. Lex Luthor is trying to gain public support for labeling Superman as either, like, a bad guy or a terrorist. Right. And so he has. He has all these engineered monkeys who are on computers. He has, like, millions of them. And all they're doing is commenting on social media about. And hashtagging how he's a bad superhero, he's an alien threat, this kind of stuff. And it's like, you know, that's funny. We obviously don't have genetically altered monkeys doing that, but we do have.
- [47:57]
Justin Andrews
You have factories.
- [47:58]
Adam Schafer
They do have Phone farms.
- [48:00]
Sal Destefano
They do.
- [48:00]
Justin Andrews
Speaking of that, did you know. Okay, you know the. The mega song Gangnam Style?
- [48:07]
Sal Destefano
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
- [48:08]
Justin Andrews
So apparently this is. This has come out that it was part like, it literally got its popularity because of bot farms. So, yeah, it was nothing.
- [48:19]
Adam Schafer
And then all of a sudden came.
- [48:21]
Justin Andrews
Up as like millions searched all like, inorganically. And then after that took off and became like a global phenomenon because of this artificial lift.
- [48:32]
Sal Destefano
In the beginning, you could totally manufacture popularity.
- [48:34]
Adam Schafer
But yeah, that.
- [48:35]
Justin Andrews
It was such a clear example of, like, how that works. And then, you know, to. To put that into the zeitgeist out there for everybody.
- [48:43]
Sal Destefano
Do you guys remember. Okay, you guys remember the show Saved by the Bell? We're gonna do it ourselves. You remember that episode? I don't remember who it was. Lisa or Kelly, where they're like, anything she does, everyone else in the school does. And then they tested it and she wore a pizza on her head. Yeah. And everybody else started wearing a pizza on her head. That's what they do. Right? You get a few, like, cool, whatever, influential people. Yeah. To start promoting something. Next thing you know, everybody's like, this is the new stuff.
- [49:04]
Adam Schafer
I don't know, man. I. I think, I think that kind of attention and fame is way more cursed than it is a blessing. I mean, look at what. Man, you see what David Goggins is going through right now.
- [49:15]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [49:16]
Sal Destefano
I actually feel bad for him.
- [49:17]
Adam Schafer
I mean, part of me does a little bit. The, the irony, though, the irony of the us feeling bad is that we had. We had denied ever having him on the show and said that just because a lot of messages. Yeah. A lot of his fitness advice is counter to what we've been trying to preach to people, because I don't think that. That the average person needs to. To.
- [49:33]
Sal Destefano
It's not a good message.
- [49:34]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. To just grit their teeth through it and do it. It's like there's. There's not. There's a much better healthier approach than. Than that. And so that was the only reason. Nothing personal against him. I think a lot of other stuff he says or does is very inspiring. I don't know him, but again, look what happens. You know, you get all this global attention and revered by so many people, and then out comes this, you know, tick tock video from his daughter saying.
- [49:57]
Sal Destefano
He was such an absent father.
- [49:58]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [49:58]
Sal Destefano
Yes, I feel bad. I feel bad for two reasons. One, I think he came out and he's like, I was an absent father. But I feel bad because. Well, first, personally, it hits me in my Heart because I was an absent father for my older kids for a long time and I worked a lot and I thought I was doing the right thing. Really what it was a lot of pride and valuing the wrong things. My children suffered greatly for it. So I feel for anybody who did that looks back and then feels terrible because it'll tear you up. It tears me up still to the same just talking about it. It. Yeah. So I feel really bad about it. But I also feel bad because I. I couldn't imagine if one of my kids went on social media and said that about me.
- [50:41]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [50:41]
Sal Destefano
You know, like oh, it would crush me.
- [50:44]
Adam Schafer
Oh, it would totally crush you. I think why it's got to be so. Or why it's, you know, why he's getting so much backlash is because he's the. You know, hard is no excuse. Get up to it no matter what. And it's like even if fixing that relationship with your daughter is hard, you're the guy that should be able to figure that out. Well, you're the guy that should work hard enough or figure a way out to do that at all cost. And it's like it also points out.
- [51:09]
Sal Destefano
Just how fake the online love is. It's not real because you look at the comments. The guy that got all these accolades, oh he's great. Suddenly people are pilot. Oh of course he's got time to do this his crazy routine where he works out or whatever. He's not even a good dad.
- [51:24]
Justin Andrews
Oh yeah.
- [51:25]
Sal Destefano
Oh my God.
- [51:26]
Justin Andrews
Example of the moment mob mentality.
- [51:27]
Sal Destefano
That's terrible.
- [51:28]
Adam Schafer
That's why I think it's a curse to be that famous dude to get that much attention because everybody, they're waiting for you is waiting for you to fall from grace or and and in fact many people are trying to push you from grace. Yeah, they're not even waiting. People aren't even waiting. They are, they're. They're trying to find ways to get you to fall from grace. And it's like no thank you dude.
- [51:49]
Justin Andrews
I was watching, I watched this show every now and then. It kind of relaxes me. It's like this aerial footage of like cities and it kind of gives you a little bit of the history. I know I'm totally taking turn here.
- [52:01]
Adam Schafer
I like to do that just music in aerial photos. Cuz I watch that.
- [52:05]
Justin Andrews
Well no, it's like got a narrator.
- [52:07]
Sal Destefano
And there's a conspiracy twist. I guarantee you I have something to bring up later.
- [52:12]
Adam Schafer
But they over the aliens base.
- [52:14]
Sal Destefano
This isn't that.
- [52:14]
Justin Andrews
This is actually maybe Adam Might like us, but. So it just goes, I guess, some of the history and. And like, it was going over Las Vegas, and you see it from all the. These cool new angles and everything. And there's this one, like, it goes over. It's a trailer park, and it kind of starts talking about it. And apparently the. Or I guess he's still somewhat of an owner of Zappos, but he sold it off to Amazon and made like, I don't know, like, almost a billion. Like, hundreds of millions of dollars. Right. But decides to literally just live in this molecule home. And it's this tiny little trailer park home with all these other kind of radical, weird, eccentric people, and they're like. Like walking around.
- [52:55]
Adam Schafer
A multi millionaire.
- [52:56]
Justin Andrews
Multi millionaire downgrades and then goes and lives in Vegas when it's hot in, like, a trailer home. I was like, weird possessed him to do that. I was, like, tripping on that.
- [53:05]
Sal Destefano
I think he figured out what makes him happy.
- [53:07]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, well, that's the thing. I was like, you start thinking about that, and you're like, you hit your pinnacle. Like, you hit some level that most people don't even. Can't even fathom, and you realize that, like, well, what got you there? And like, in.
- [53:21]
Sal Destefano
In.
- [53:21]
Justin Andrews
I think that he just, like, really pulled himself back to the roots of.
- [53:25]
Sal Destefano
Of.
- [53:26]
Justin Andrews
Of his whole journey.
- [53:29]
Sal Destefano
A trailer park with his two pet llamas.
- [53:30]
Adam Schafer
Shut up.
- [53:31]
Sal Destefano
What's it say there, Doug?
- [53:33]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [53:34]
Justin Andrews
He was CEO, I believe, and create.
- [53:37]
Sal Destefano
Fun and a little weirdness. Weirdness. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'll say this.
- [53:42]
Justin Andrews
Look, 240 square feet.
- [53:44]
Adam Schafer
Oh, my God, bro, that's extreme. Because I.
- [53:46]
Justin Andrews
It's super extreme.
- [53:47]
Adam Schafer
Listen, I totally get the one. I think sometimes, you know, back to.
- [53:51]
Sal Destefano
Like, curses for 1.2 billion.
- [53:53]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah.
- [53:53]
Justin Andrews
1, 3 billion.
- [53:54]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [53:56]
Justin Andrews
Net worth is at least 780 million.
- [53:59]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Dude, living in a freaking trailer. I'll say this right now, all day long. And if you asked me this 15 years ago, it would have been different, but I would trade a beautiful house all day long so I could be near people I want to be around, bro.
- [54:14]
Adam Schafer
I. I'm an example of this. Yeah, we. I. The last two houses or three houses, I've downgraded each time square footage wise. And I left Ocean View, biggest one, all of them, to be closer to family because we went out there thinking that we have this epic place. Everybody's going to want to come stay. I mean, I even put all this energy into the.
- [54:35]
Sal Destefano
I mean, our.
- [54:35]
Adam Schafer
Our guest place was better than our master bedroom. And I thought I'd have friends and family and stuff. And nobody came and visited us out there. And it was like, what is this all for? Why the big property and all the space if it's just me and Katrina, Max, nobody visits us. And so I left. And then again I. And then, and then the last one, we had a little more square footage and I went down even more. And so I definitely can relate to realize and to us, like when we did this place, a lot of our conversation was like, like, how do we. We've had that. We've been blessed to have lived in what, five, six different houses together. And they're all very, very different. Everything from condos to big houses to great locations to remote locations, to city, all of it. And we're like, you know, what are the things that we value and appreciate? Well, one of the number one for us is to be have family.
- [55:22]
Sal Destefano
That's it.
- [55:22]
Adam Schafer
It's like, that's number one. So we've got to be somewhere remotely close. And we didn't realize like, how much even just a 20, 30 minute jog for could be for people. So it's like we need to be. Be within 5, 10 minutes if we're probably gonna see them. And then it's like, okay, what's the next layer to that? Well, how do we use the house? You know, what rooms are we in? You know, we've had a separate game room where we had something like that. No one ever went upstairs because it wasn't around where the area was. And you know, is it the size of the house or do we need more entertainment room for outside? Because we barbecue, we do things like this. So a lot of thought went into us finally moving to this place. And I downsized and went. And I was explaining this to my siblings about the place. I mean, granted, it's a very. It's beautiful, it's nice. We. We put a lot of into the aesthetic of it. But I mean, compared to what I would have thought in my 20s when I reached the level, what I would. I mean, I thought bigger, more this and that. And so I get that. I don't know if I'd ever go all the way back down to a trailer, because I think there's some level of comfort that I like of some sort of space in some room. So that's. That's wild to me to go that. But I totally get the, you know, why have this big, giant empty mansion that nobody's in?
- [56:33]
Sal Destefano
Oh, God.
- [56:33]
Adam Schafer
You know, and if anything, it's a pain in the ass. To keep clean. Clean, because you're not using.
- [56:37]
Justin Andrews
And it's just, like, to show people, like, what you have or what you've accomplished. Like, you know, who cares about all that? It's like, what you're gonna actually use it for. And, like, you know, help your family get closer together and, like, have friends closer by or have proximity to school or, you know, like, you're weighing all those things out. That's like.
- [56:57]
Sal Destefano
For me, it's all about, like, being near people I love. And a kitchen and maybe another area connected to the kitchen. Kitchen. That's where we spend all our time. We're always there. Not in your bedroom, but like a room where everybody.
- [57:10]
Justin Andrews
Living space.
- [57:11]
Sal Destefano
Everybody's there. That's right.
- [57:12]
Adam Schafer
No, that's exactly how we've designed our place. The first time I've ever been in a place where every inch of the house is used a lot.
- [57:21]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [57:22]
Adam Schafer
Like, you know how they do those heat patterns, and they show where people kind of bounce between two or three, like. Like that. Mine would be lit completely up. Like, there is not a spot in that house that. That doesn't get daily use. That's how cool. Like, it's got. But it's has nothing to do with size. It's more about the footprint and layout and then being close to family.
- [57:40]
Sal Destefano
So.
- [57:40]
Justin Andrews
Real quick, conspiracy, since you brought it up. Yeah, so I was actually, like, I've never even heard about this because, like, and I'm big on especially pyramids that I don't know about. Like, I'm always. You know, we talked about Antarctica and all kinds of, like, weird stuff down there, but. But I had never heard about a. An underground pyramid in Alaska.
- [58:02]
Sal Destefano
So it.
- [58:03]
Justin Andrews
Within the Alaskan Triangle. Apparently there's this unzoned area in the map where it's, like, there's nothing, like, mapped out. And apparently, according to some military, like, reports, and people have come out and talked about this, like, there's this, like, massive, massive, like, like, they call it the dark pyramid, but it's like, like, apparently it's like another sort of like, like Area 51 type place. Yeah. Where they look that up.
- [58:31]
Sal Destefano
Doug. Dark Pyramid, Alaska. I want to see what this looks like.
- [58:33]
Justin Andrews
There was this reporter, and she does, like, a lot of the UFO kind of reports from. From people that have been in the military have, like, some kind of clearance. And so, you know, as far as credibility goes, that's about as close as we got for credibility. But, like, there was this whole, like, show, and I think even Netflix had, like, kind of a documentary about people's reports of it, but apparently, like, it's a big military operation.
- [59:01]
Adam Schafer
So I. I think we've kind of talked about this before because you guys have talked about your conspiracy theories. But I think the thing that. Now that I've embraced the tinfoil hat with you guys a little bit, I think the theory that I've come up with the most, like with the aliens and UFOs, is that. Especially in the lines with what Justin is sharing right now, is that I believe there's. It's more likely that we had way better crazy technology long, long time ago, and government has found some of that technology. We have things, and we're capable of doing things that most people don't know we're capable of. And that's what explains a lot of these crazy UFOs and stuff. Not that it's some alien from some other planet.
- [59:44]
Justin Andrews
It's found technology. It's found. That word.
- [59:47]
Adam Schafer
Yes. It's found technology we had found probably a long time ago in some of these hidden pyramids that we still can't even explain how they got built.
- [59:56]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. Then the government just zones it off.
- [59:57]
Sal Destefano
So the public doesn't know about it. I'll go hard in this direction. I now think, because they talk about these interdimensional beings, I think it was demons, and I think demons influenced humans and gave them technology a long time ago and had them worship pagan gods. Oh, my God. So that's the spiritual side. That's right. That's what I think. Hey, just as viable as it was.
- [60:22]
Adam Schafer
I mean.
- [60:23]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. I mean, you're.
- [60:23]
Justin Andrews
I mean, it's all up for grabs.
- [60:25]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. 2019.
- [60:27]
Justin Andrews
I feel like everything got shaken up.
- [60:29]
Adam Schafer
I definitely think we probably then all kind of agree, more or less, though, that it's more likely aliens. Yeah, it's more likely. Not aliens. It's more likely we've had this technology, whoever gave it to us, really advanced civilizations that.
- [60:44]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. They're not going to tell.
- [60:45]
Sal Destefano
Talk to us about it.
- [60:46]
Adam Schafer
Doesn't that seem more likely to you? Like, when you especially, like. I mean, I'm just.
- [60:49]
Sal Destefano
Well, there's the ferment. Was it called the Fermi paradox? Is that what it is for me? Is it Fermi paradox. Look that up, dog. If I'm saying.
- [60:55]
Justin Andrews
I know.
- [60:55]
Adam Schafer
You're talking the furry paradox.
- [60:56]
Sal Destefano
No, not. Yeah, not the furry paradox. Don't Google that. Fermi. F, E, R M. What is it? Fermi. Yeah. It's the apparent contradiction between the high probability that extraterrestrial civilizations exist in the vast universe and the Lack of any evidence or contrast contact with them. And so it's like, why have we not why, why? And it's. And so, yeah, so I think it's demons.
- [61:21]
Justin Andrews
Okay, Demons it is.
- [61:24]
Sal Destefano
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- [61:46]
Justin Andrews
Our first caller is Matthew from Canada.
- [61:48]
Sal Destefano
What's up, Matthew?
- [61:49]
Adam Schafer
What's happening?
- [61:51]
Caller Matthew
Hi, guys. How are you?
- [61:52]
Sal Destefano
Good, good. How can we help you? Good.
- [61:56]
Caller Matthew
I just want to tell you first off, it's a big honor to be speaking to you guys. I listen to you guys daily and really respect what you guys do.
- [62:02]
Adam Schafer
Thank you.
- [62:03]
Justin Andrews
Thanks, man.
- [62:06]
Caller Matthew
So I'll tell you a little bit about me because it'll lead into my question, which will probably make it easier. I'm a father. I have twins who are 2 years old. I'm a kinesiologist and they run a small studio here in Montreal. I am the strength and conditioning coach for the men's hockey team at Concordia University. And this is what's leading me into. My question for you guys is acicordia. As the strength coach, we only have the opportunity to train two, two days a week, Tuesday and Wednesday, back to back at 10am because of the schedule and because of schools, hockey is a very intense sport and it's very hard to hit everything in the two training sessions that we have available to us. Right? Like, you got your strength, your power, your speed, mobility, agility, injury preventions, the biomechanics of the skating, stride. I can't hit it all, obviously, in the two sessions. And I've been there now for six years and we've done, we've done very well. But I feel like I've never maximized the training I'm doing with this team to really improve performance, I would say, but really just capitalize on the training. So I wanted, I was wondering, what would you guys do with the two blocks that you have available for the training sessions?
- [63:29]
Adam Schafer
Is this all year the only two? Like, does this change in season, out, season, or is it like consistently. These are the two days. That's all we get.
- [63:37]
Caller Matthew
These are the two days. This is all we get. And it's all season long until we.
- [63:41]
Sal Destefano
Lose in the playoffs or win so this is always.
- [63:44]
Justin Andrews
Pack it all in.
- [63:45]
Sal Destefano
This is always.
- [63:46]
Caller Matthew
Yeah, I know.
- [63:47]
Sal Destefano
So this is always in season. Then they're always playing and practicing. What's their, what's their practice? What's their practice and play schedule look like?
- [63:54]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, the rest of the day.
- [63:55]
Sal Destefano
Days.
- [63:56]
Caller Matthew
So usually they have games on Friday and Sunday. Sometimes they have games during the week. That really changes training up. Depending when the game is. It's never consistent. Monday is usually a day off for the guys to catch back up on schoolwork. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, practice game, Friday, game, Sunday, type of schedule.
- [64:18]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, the biggest challenge injury prevention is about.
- [64:22]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, the biggest challenge. And you almost nailed it. I think you nailed it. It, Matt, is that you, you're trying to, you know, like, how do I fit everything in? You can't. In fact, if you try to fit everything in, you're gonna, you're gonna increase the risk of injury and reduce the. Their performance. It's really going to be about mobility and injury prevention. It's actually less is more. Yeah. So it'll be very, very minimal with strength training, some correctional exercise and mobility. And your goal, you know, with your background in kinesiology would be look at biomechanics and focus on correctional exercise. Really. Because if you try to push the strength training while they're in season, that's gonna, it's not gonna help.
- [65:02]
Adam Schafer
Especially that high of volume. They got two games a week sometimes.
- [65:06]
Justin Andrews
Even then they would. Yeah. Ideally I would have spread it out so it's like micro workouts, you know, throughout the week. But like, it doesn't sound like you have that ability to program that with them.
- [65:16]
Caller Matthew
No, it's very difficult.
- [65:17]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. I mean, just to put it differently, if those two days were focused on correctional exercise and recovery, they'd probably do better. Better than if they were focused.
- [65:25]
Caller Matthew
Okay, I'm just gonna, just gonna jot that down.
- [65:27]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Yeah. Because they're all, I mean these are college, these are high level athletes. They're. They're redlining, they're.
- [65:34]
Caller Matthew
They're big time athletes. Some of them have been to NHL development camps, rookie camps, even pro, the main camp. So they're big time athletes.
- [65:42]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah. And so if it's focused on like active recovery, mobility, they're gonna get, you're gonna get more out of them than you would if you were pushing performance.
- [65:52]
Adam Schafer
The only window you're going to have to do that is in the, is like after. Yeah. Off season play, after playoffs when they, how. I don't know how long they have before everything kicks back up again. But that's the, the short period of time that I would ramp up any of the intensity and volume of, of training.
- [66:09]
Justin Andrews
I probably even if you do any kind of strength training exercises, it would keep it more unilateral more than anything. I don't know if you're familiar with Mike Boyle, but I would go through.
- [66:18]
Caller Matthew
Oh, yeah.
- [66:18]
Sal Destefano
Big fat. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
- [66:21]
Justin Andrews
Like. Yeah, it's just, again, this is a really tough question in terms of like condensing your focus there, but I think they nailed it with this. Injury prevention is the highest thing, but I mean, you still have to include just a little bit of strength train to maintain, but with them performing and, and explosively moving, you're going to get a lot of wear and tear already. So, yeah, just maintaining, managing that, assessing them in those sessions and figuring out those needs that you can fulfill, I think is ideal.
- [66:51]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, but less would be more with intensity, with driving, with pushing. It's really about like, can I get them after these strength training sessions to feel like they've recovered more is really the idea. Okay. Keep them healthy. That, that, that's awesome.
- [67:05]
Caller Matthew
I really appreciate that. It's just been an ongoing battle for the six years and.
- [67:09]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I can imagine you guys, I can imagine that. That's a, That's a tough question, bro.
- [67:14]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, oftentimes it's the athletes besides, you know, the talent, you know, talent factor. Oftentimes the athletes that do best are the ones that avoid injury the most and the ones that get the best recovery. Because everybody's pushing so hard at that level. I mean, we're not talking about, you know, high school, you know, or rec league. This is like high level. They're going for it every practice and every game.
- [67:35]
Justin Andrews
I mean, multiplanar isometrics would be my first kind of thought process to, to maintain a bit of strength. Unless in terms of like wear and tear, like in recovery, like the recovery will be pretty substantial. But yeah, to be able to maintain that kind of strength control, especially in like lateral type of poses and, and you know, working on bit of rotational type of isometrics, I think would be very beneficial.
- [68:07]
Caller Matthew
Okay, that, that's awesome. That's exactly kind of the route we're going to stay on with it. I just thought maybe there was more we can get out of it to peak at the right time.
- [68:14]
Sal Destefano
Do.
- [68:14]
Caller Matthew
Can we maintain more strength?
- [68:15]
Adam Schafer
This and that.
- [68:16]
Caller Matthew
You know, you're always kind of looking for the edge to help with performance and yeah. Help go after those titles. So that's always the ongoing battle that I'm looking at.
- [68:24]
Sal Destefano
No. You know, it's interesting, Matthew. Years ago, I remember they did this huge study. This influenced personal trainers, I think in the wrong way in many cases. But they had pro athletes or high level athletes and they started training them on instability balls and dyna discs and one legged this and one legged that. And what they found was a reduction in injury. Injury. Now what they attributed it to was the instability training, but that's not what caused the reduction in injury. What caused the reduction in injury was the fact that they were training with a lower intensity and less volume. I mean, when you train a dyna disc and physio balls, you're not driving and pushing as hard. And so these athletes were getting less, less injuries. And it was, it was less about what they were doing, it was more about what they weren't doing, which was pushing their bodies. So if you become the strength coach that, that figures out how to facilitate recovery, you're going to be very effective. Yeah.
- [69:13]
Justin Andrews
And you could tap into their nutrition a bit more. I know athletes are terrible with that, so if you can kind of lecture them a bit with the nutrition, that would help.
- [69:22]
Sal Destefano
Yep.
- [69:23]
Caller Matthew
Yeah. It's tough with the university athletes, but we try to stay on it as much as we can, you know.
- [69:27]
Sal Destefano
Y. Absolutely.
- [69:28]
Adam Schafer
You guys have like recovery tools and stuff there too. What do you have like, you have red light, you have cold plunge.
- [69:33]
Caller Matthew
We got like the, we got like a lot of cold tubs. We got like the thermal tax, we got red light. The fo foam rollers. Like it's not the state, state of the art, but we got a good amount of tools at our disposal.
- [69:45]
Adam Schafer
How are the boys with using it? Are they. Are they consistent with it or is that even that a challenge?
- [69:50]
Caller Matthew
That's about, that's. That's a battle too.
- [69:52]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [69:52]
Adam Schafer
To go get the treatments.
- [69:53]
Caller Matthew
That's a battle with the university students, I would say.
- [69:56]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I mean that's, I mean, push, push. Pushing that and holding them accountable to that is, is going to be as.
- [70:02]
Sal Destefano
As it's going to be so big. If they get good sleep, that'll be like a game changer for a lot of them. But it's really a game of recovery. That's the game that you're playing with with that, with this level of athlete.
- [70:13]
Caller Matthew
So what I got here, just from my notes for you guys, I got correctional exercise, recovery and mobility. Less volume and less is more. And we can put in more isometric training.
- [70:24]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, that's great.
- [70:25]
Caller Matthew
I nail that.
- [70:25]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, love that.
- [70:28]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [70:28]
Caller Matthew
That's gonna be the with the plan going forward. Really appreciate it.
- [70:32]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, I can't wait to hear what happens.
- [70:33]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, keep us posted that for sure.
- [70:35]
Caller Matthew
Thanks guys. Really, really appreciate it.
- [70:37]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, got it.
- [70:37]
Sal Destefano
All right, man. Yeah, I remember when I had that realization because you guys remember that study came out, right? And then all of a sudden the Dyna did everything became the. The rage.
- [70:45]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [70:46]
Sal Destefano
And you're like, this doesn't make any sense. Like building general strength is like the best thing, but it's because these athletes were training so hard that instead of doing traditional strength training, which is just too much for them.
- [70:56]
Adam Schafer
Did I hear him correctly that they're playing two games or more?
- [70:59]
Sal Destefano
Hockey is brutal. He. Yeah, hockey's brutal.
- [71:01]
Justin Andrews
And then sometimes threes during the week. So.
- [71:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And then you're also practicing.
- [71:06]
Sal Destefano
You know what, this is going to be controversial, but I'm going to say this right now. Like, if those two sessions during the season was nothing, but were literally myofascial release, well, that was why mobility and that's it.
- [71:15]
Adam Schafer
Why I asked him is how good are they about using those recovery tools is because here's a situation where I might dedicate that hour to that. We're all getting in the ice bath together. We're all doing the. If they're not doing a good job of doing that and you have this dedicated time with them, I might be implementing that, as lame as that may sound, but that is going to take them further than pushing their body.
- [71:38]
Sal Destefano
You're already redlining without the strength.
- [71:40]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [71:41]
Justin Andrews
Our next caller is Danielle from Missouri.
- [71:43]
Sal Destefano
Hi Danielle.
- [71:44]
Adam Schafer
Hello.
- [71:45]
Caller Danielle
Hi.
- [71:46]
Caller Morgan
Hi.
- [71:47]
Sal Destefano
How can we help you?
- [71:49]
Caller Danielle
Well, I guess I'll just read my question and I can give you guys some more context. Been a listener for a few years and I really like your approach to fitness. At this point in my journey, I guess I need some direction. I am 5 7, 133 pounds and in body says I'm 18 body fat. However, visually I disagree. I believe I'm higher due to the fat I carry around my belly area. I am trying to give myself a little grace in that area as I have had three C sections. But I do believe I could be better. I lift weights four to five times a week, average 10,000 steps through walking my dog or longer walks with a weighted vest. I am also a stay at home mom. I've had a history of an eating disorder. Started with anorexia until at some point my body had enough and I started binge eating. That was 10 years ago, before having kids. Since then I have under Eaten at times to lose baby weight. And then I do end up overeating later. Right now I'm eating around 2,000 calories a day day body weight and protein. Not from shakes or bars and little processed food. I don't feel like I could cut at all. I would end up overeating later. But I do want to lose some body fat. As for lifting, I have gotten stronger since starting to eat 2000, but I still feel like overall I have a ways to go in strength. My squat is 115 pounds, deadlift 110 and bench 80. I don't feel like my physique is changing for the better at all. Although weight remains stable and I find myself still struggling to want to eat more. What should I be doing? Do I need to suck it up and just push through a cut? Continue where I am even though I feel like I'm spinning my wheels? Or attempt to increase calories and try not to fear the fat game that comes with that.
- [73:29]
Sal Destefano
The last one. Yep, it's the last one.
- [73:31]
Adam Schafer
Gotta bump calories and get stronger right now.
- [73:33]
Sal Destefano
And you're probably overdoing everything. So you have three kids. How old are they?
- [73:37]
Caller Morgan
Yeah.
- [73:40]
Caller Danielle
I guess it goes back to. So when I talk about the eating disorder piece of it, at one point in my life, before kids, right around college, I was 220 pounds. So then I lost about 100. And then have never really wanted to gain weight again because I fear going back to that spot.
- [74:02]
Adam Schafer
Of course.
- [74:02]
Sal Destefano
Of course. I totally get it. Let's look at the context first. Also, you have three kids. How old are you kids?
- [74:08]
Caller Danielle
Kids 9, 6, and 4.
- [74:11]
Sal Destefano
So you're busy. Yeah, very busy. Okay. You have the history of kind of the challenging relationship with diet and exercise. You fear gaining weight. I totally get that. The scan says 18 body fat. You don't agree with that. You're trying to give yourself grace. I appreciate that the right answer is going to be the hard answer, which is you need to slowly reverse diet and focus on getting stronger. Stronger. It'll actually give you what you want. It'll give you what you're looking for. You're just gonna have to kind of be patient. You have to be patient and not be so and. And fight through the fear that you're going to gain all this weight. And now you can do it in a way that's controlled if that makes you feel better. So you feel like you have your hands around it. So if you're eating 2, 000 calories a day, I would have you add 200 calories and you'd stay there for a little while, get yourself stronger, wait a little bit, maybe two, three weeks, then bump it up again. Can. But you have a lot of room to go with your calories. And you know what will probably happen with this, Danielle, is you'll probably get leaner simultaneously.
- [75:08]
Adam Schafer
About the only thing that I would probably get you to stop doing is weighing yourself. Because as I reverse diet you and I know that I'm only adding 200 calories every, say, few weeks or whatever. I know we're not going to put on a bunch of body fat. And I'm not concerned if the scale goes up three to five pounds here or there. And I. And that will normally mess with a client, client psychologically that's challenged with this. And so I would probably tell you, let's not weigh for a while. Let's just focus on getting strong, increase these calories and be consistent. And then, you know, we'll check back in, in a couple months.
- [75:39]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Give you, like, give me an example what I'm talking about. Let's say you gained, let's say it was just crazy and you gained 10 pounds of muscle, but let's say you also simultaneously gained three pounds of body fat. So now your body weight is 146 pounds, but you're leaning. Would that mess with you? Would the scale saying 146 mess with your head a little bit?
- [76:00]
Caller Danielle
I don't think the scale would. It would be more like, how do my clothes fit?
- [76:04]
Sal Destefano
Okay, well, if you build muscle, they're going to fit differently in different areas, especially around the butt area, the quads and that kind of stuff. Yeah, but it's going to be a reverse diet and focus on strength. And I agree with Adam. Don't weigh yourself. And I also wouldn't study myself in the mirror. Your best metric is going to be the how strong you feel and energy. Those are the two things you should pay the most attention to because you can really fool yourself by looking in the mirror as well. You could start to study yourself and, oh, I don't like this area and this area, I don't know about this. And that can mess with you just as much as a scale can.
- [76:37]
Adam Schafer
Have you ever considered having a coach take you through this process?
- [76:43]
Caller Danielle
I haven't. I mean, having three kids and I'm a stay at home mom, so my husband's the one working. I always, I feel like I should save the money for something else. One of my daughters also has a lot of orthopedic conditions, so we end up having tons of medical costs, and a coach is just not really in the budget for us.
- [77:04]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, that's, that's totally understandable. Do the, can you do the reverse diet? Is. Is what I'm saying. Does that sound like something you can do or is that too scary?
- [77:13]
Caller Danielle
No, I mean, I think I can do it. I always, I guess I like, think a lot about the future, that I'm like, okay, after I reverse diet, do I have to try and then cut again? Because again, I guess that goes back to the fear. Then, like, I feel like right now there's no way I could cut. What if I end up then reverse dieting and feel like, nope, you can't cut again and now you have all this extra body fat from.
- [77:36]
Sal Destefano
That won't happen. You could go as slow as you want. Want. You can go as slow as you want. You could b. You could bump your calories 100 every four weeks if you want. You could take your time, but I don't think you should go backwards with calories at all.
- [77:48]
Adam Schafer
No, no. Especially with 10,000 steps, working out four to five times.
- [77:52]
Sal Destefano
You're wearing a weight vest. You're doing the whole thing.
- [77:54]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're, you're, you're, you're active enough and you're training enough to support well over 2,000 calories.
- [78:02]
Caller Danielle
Would you say then I'm probably undereating now?
- [78:06]
Sal Destefano
Absolutely.
- [78:09]
Adam Schafer
But that's, it's not horrible. You're not in a place where it's really bad, but you're low. And so we don't want to go any lower. In fact, in a, in a perfect world, we end up taking you to a place, say 26, 27, maybe even 2800 calories, and then you end up landing at like 24 and leaner than you've ever been. That's where you want. So you're eating, you're satisfied, you're not eating crazy amount of calories, but you're eating good amount of calories and you are the body fat percentage, the weight you want to be. But we, we got to get there by slowly reverse dieting you and getting.
- [78:42]
Sal Destefano
Stronger and really take your time. If it's scary, just take your time and, and really pay attention to your strength. That's going to be your North Star with the whole thing. Do I feel stronger? Am I able to lift more? That's going to point you in the right direction. Way better than the mirror of the scale, for sure.
- [78:57]
Adam Schafer
And, and, and since the coach thing is probably not an option, let's let's get you in the private forum so we can at least go through this with you. So you can just check in with us as you go through this process.
- [79:07]
Sal Destefano
And you have a home gym, Danielle. Is that where you work out?
- [79:09]
Caller Danielle
Yeah. So about two years ago, my husband bought a squat rack for me, and then I have adjustable dumbbells. And he's actually getting ready to upgrade it to some other stuff for me soon.
- [79:21]
Sal Destefano
Nice. Can I send you Maps Anabolic? You want to follow that? Do you have that program?
- [79:24]
Caller Danielle
I don't.
- [79:25]
Sal Destefano
Oh, yeah. That'll be way better than. I think what you're probably. You're doing a lot of strength training, which you don't need. Need Maps Anabolic would really move things in the right direction. I'll send that to you.
- [79:34]
Caller Danielle
Okay, cool. Thank you.
- [79:36]
Sal Destefano
Thank you. Yeah, thanks for calling in.
- [79:38]
Caller Danielle
Yeah, thank you.
- [79:39]
Sal Destefano
You got it. That's tough. That's a tough, scary thing for someone to move out of.
- [79:44]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. I would keep her away from the scale right now for sure because as soon as she bumps her calories reduces her training down to three days a week. She might see a little bit of a bump on the.
- [79:54]
Sal Destefano
I had a client once, like, she reminded me of a client I trained a long time ago where I had her stay off the scale. And her body fat percentage was going down because we would test body fat and she was getting stronger. She stepped on the scale, saw if the scale went up eight pounds. She was so mad. And I said, but you're leaner, you're stronger, you feel better. And you know what she said to me? I just don't want to weigh this much.
- [80:13]
Justin Andrews
Don't care.
- [80:14]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, I just don't want to weigh this much. It's very difficult. It can be very difficult.
- [80:18]
Justin Andrews
Our next caller is Ashley from Tennessee.
- [80:21]
Sal Destefano
Hi, Ashley.
- [80:22]
Justin Andrews
What's happening?
- [80:23]
Caller Ashley
Hey, guys. Thanks so much for having me on. I really appreciate it.
- [80:26]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, thanks for calling in. How can we help you?
- [80:29]
Caller Ashley
So I'm a 5:1 female currently weighing in at about 140 pounds, according to an in body scanner, where you weigh yourself, you hold the probes. When I first started, I was at about 80% of the ideal muscle mass for my height and weight. So pretty under muscle mass, which is a common thing as you guys talk about. Over the summer, I increased my calories to about 1700 calories a day. My maintenance, I believe, was about 1500. And I also started intaking about 125 to 130 grams of protein. I was lifting about two times per week, playing Ultimate Frisbee in the summer, one day a week and I gained 1.5 pounds of muscle, which is great. I think that's the first time I've ever gained muscle in my life.
- [81:18]
Sal Destefano
That's great.
- [81:18]
Caller Ashley
And that was only 49 days. However, in that 49 days I also gained about 2.5 pounds of fat and my body fat percentage went up. So my clothes got tighter, so I got stronger, I could tell. But I also gained fat and so I became really discouraged. So then I started waffling between kind of cutting, kind of not I just right now, basically I feel lost. Since then I have discovered I went to my doctor. Apparently I may have hypothyroidism. So I have a follow up visit in a couple of weeks to do more blood work to get some confirmation on that. But I've been gluten free now for about six weeks, brand new, which is really tough. So I know that maybe that's playing a role, the hypothyroidism, the metabolism. But my goals are build strength and muscle. I think that'd be really cool. But mostly I want to lose fat. I, I, I don't want my clothes to keep getting tighter and just to be feeling uncomfortable in my body. So I've been kind of wavering. I just listened to the SBC episode. So I have a feeling I know what you guys are going to recommend, but I just think maybe my expectations were off. I guess I thought maybe I could gain muscle without gaining fat. And so, you know, I'm wondering if maybe one that was unrealistic. And I'm looking between I've considered the maps anabolic or the maps 15. So basically I'm not someone who loves to be in the gym. I go in the gym two to three times a week and I just have been doing two lifts. I've been doing push and pull and then hopefully a leg day, which sometimes I kind of skip. If I'm being honest, I don't love legs. And so when I considered the programming, I thought it seems like either I can do the same kind of lifts, like two lifts every single day, like Maps 15 or I know you guys recommend Maps Anabolic, but it's a full body so it take up more time. So I guess my question is, given my current stats and goals, how do I move forward without backsliding into old patterns or sabotaging the progress I've made? And is it unreasonable to expect strength and muscle gain without facking alongside of it?
- [83:26]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, good, good question.
- [83:27]
Adam Schafer
Really good question. A lot of Good stuff too. I wanna, I wanna ask one more thing though, before. To get more detail on the. When you, you went to your. The 1700 calories, do you know what you were before that?
- [83:39]
Caller Ashley
I think based on eating patterns, it was probably about 1500 calories. But before that I had gained a lot of weight just from processed food. I was in a happy relationship. I was doing really well. And so I think I just realized, oh, I'm eating unhealthy. And so when I got my eating in order, I think it was about 1500 calories, but no idea on the protein. Probably pretty low on the protein.
- [84:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. The reason why I'm asking that is because I didn't think that you. 1700 was going up very high from wherever you were and the likelihood that you put on that much body fat and it's more likely that the body fat test was just a little off or you had a little more water in your system when you took the test. And so it registered higher or lower. Like I doubt you increase by only 200 calories and put on that much body fat fat. You probably did better than you think you did.
- [84:33]
Sal Destefano
Well, there's a couple things too, because you're moving in the right direction. But there's two things. Two factors play a role here. One, the hypothyroidism, if that is indeed something that is confirmed and you treat, that makes a big difference. Makes a huge difference with fat loss and muscle gain. Hypothyroidism also affects muscle gain. A lot of people don't know that. So that's one. Number two, when I talk to someone like you, who's doing what you're doing, typically what happens, and correct me if I'm wrong, when they do strength training, they. They don't push the strength. They kind of go in and do the exercise, but they're scared of pushing the intensity and really challenging themselves. Is that what happens with you, Ashley?
- [85:13]
Caller Ashley
100%. So I tend to lean more towards running. So this is. I focused on just the foundational lifts. So I watched a lot of the Mind pump TV actually to kind of guide me. And I do stuff out from like my home gym. It's basically Facebook, Marketplace, st stuff that I got for cheap. But I watch my pump TV to make sure I'm doing the lifts. I go slow. And I did a program on my own through a smart app where it was to increase my 1 rep max. But like I said it, I really have very little muscle. So I mean, I could tell, I was like, oh, wow, I Definitely. I could feel it on my own, but, yeah, I'm still pretty low as far as, like, weight on the bar goes, because sometimes the bar is still all I can do for, like, overhead press. It's really hard.
- [86:00]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. So if you were my client, I would. I would. One of the things I would help you work on is feeling confident pushing the weight, and that alone would make your strength explode. The fact that you gained a little bit of muscle anyway just tells me that you were practicing the lifts, which is not bad at all. But you do you. You need to also push the intensity a little bit. I think Maps 15 would be the perfect program for you. And I want you now don't sacrifice four. So I'm not telling you to go loose with your form, but push yourself. See how strong you can get while simultaneously continuing to increase your calories. And what you'll see is more muscle gain. By the way, the in body scan that you got is well within the range of the margin of error. So there's a margin of error on that scan for how accurate it can be. It's never perfectly accurate. It can be. So the best. Best correlate you have as to whether or not you're gaining muscle is strength. So when I hear you say, I think I feel like I got stronger, what that sounds to me like is you're not testing it or pushing it. You just kind of feel stronger. But if you're stronger and you're pushing it, you'll know because you're like, I did 10 more pounds, or I'm doing 20 more pounds, or I just did five more reps. One of the ways.
- [87:11]
Adam Schafer
One of the ways that I will coach a client like you through this process is as you go through Mass 15, you're gonna open it up. You're gonna see there's gonna be an exercise in there, and it's gonna call for 10 reps. When you choose that weight, I actually want you to fail before that. 10. That's not normal. Normally when I coach somebody, I want them. We always say two in the tank. But if I, you know, make sure you could do at least two more, I actually am gonna push you to go like, listen, make it hard. Make it so hard that you may only be able to get eight, and that's okay. Stop at eight. If you can only get eight, stop at eight. But that tells me, like, okay, she put enough weight on that bar.
- [87:46]
Sal Destefano
Bar.
- [87:46]
Adam Schafer
She was not getting anywhere near 10. That's. I want to challenge that side of you, because if you know that you're already somebody who leans to like lighter weight. I'd rather do cardio. I don't really push the strength. I'm a little more nervous that way. That's one of the ways that I'm going to build the confidence in you, is like, don't worry too much. If it says 10 reps, I want you to choose a weight that's going to be so challenging for 10, you may only get eight.
- [88:08]
Sal Destefano
Now, one. One last thing I'll add, Ashley, is if hiring a personal trainer in person is feasible for you, you, I think it'd be a good idea. Just so you can get that feel, that security of having a spotter and feeling comfortable. Because I've trained a lot. Look, there's a few things that you said that, that reminded me of many people that I've trained. Like, I feel like I'm getting stronger. I don't build a lot of muscle. I never have a lot of muscle. What that usually means to me is that you've never really been able to touch that side of yourself. You've never really been able to get in touch with like what it feels like to summon strength. And that's actually something you have to get used to. And a trainer can help you do that. But nonetheless, if you just follow Mass 15 and push yourself a little bit, you're going to see watch what happens to your strength.
- [88:51]
Caller Ashley
So I get nervous about going too hard because I tend to still be on the side of being sore right now a lot because everything is pretty heavy. So I get nervous about pushing it just a little too far. Kind of like you guys have mentioned in several episodes. So I think that's partly why I not push myself. What would be a good factor of when I'm lifting the weight? Because I can, you know, when I'm doing my overhead press and I'm doing the bar, I keep wanting to add weight to it. So far I can't really effectively do it and get more than like three reps in. So I'm like, well, if I maybe if I just do the bar for 10 reps and then next time I could add weight to do two. Like, does that make sense?
- [89:30]
Sal Destefano
That makes sense. You could also switch the dumbbells because the barbell, the barbell is heavy by itself. 45 pound overhead press for a lot of people is pretty heavy. So you can switch to dumbbells.
- [89:39]
Adam Schafer
And if you, and if you're still getting sore from the weight you're doing right now, you're probably doing okay. I mean, normally what ends up happening with someone like you is you're no longer getting sore anymore. You can do the weight relatively easy, but then you're just afraid to go up and push yourself. But if you're still getting sore from the workouts, then you're probably doing okay right now. Just need to be patient.
- [89:59]
Sal Destefano
And one last thing to add that is that being hypothyroid affects recovery. So so oftentimes adding thyroid, if that is appropriate, it's it. Like I said, it's people think of fat loss, which is true, but it also contributes to muscle gain. There is a function of thyroid when it comes to muscle health and function. So that could also be playing a role.
- [90:22]
Caller Ashley
That's all super helpful. Yeah, I, I've been dialing in on the diet, trying to, to get the thyroid under control. And then like I said, I go back, but I also started doing B12 and Ashwagandha or actually a multi methylated B complex. So it has a lot of stuff in it. So that's really great. So then for someone of, you know, my height and size, I think oftentimes I am pretty short. I'm only five one. I know you guys said average woman to shoot maybe for like 150 pounds, which would be 150 grams of protein. Based on just what you know about me right now, is that still what you would recommend or should I dial it back in? Because when I look on all the different websites, they all have a different idea of what my calorie intake should be and what I should be shooting for.
- [91:07]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, 150 grams of protein at 1700 calories is too much protein for that low calories. So I would have you aim for like 120 grams of protein would be plenty, but I think you should aim for about 1850-1900 calories with good strength training.
- [91:22]
Caller Ashley
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate that.
- [91:26]
Sal Destefano
You got it. We're on the right path team.
- [91:28]
Adam Schafer
You're on the right path. Keep it up, Ashley.
- [91:30]
Sal Destefano
Yep.
- [91:31]
Caller Ashley
Thanks, guys.
- [91:31]
Sal Destefano
You got it. I mean, how many times have you trained a client like that where they're just afraid to push?
- [91:36]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [91:37]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. And I could tell when she was like, I don't build muscle easily and I feel like I'm getting so I feel like I'm getting stronger. Means you're not really. You don't know because you're not. Right.
- [91:44]
Justin Andrews
It's not tangible. Yeah. It's quantifiable once you start seeing actual loading increase.
- [91:49]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Have you guys ever had that process? This has Happened to me so many times. I'll get this client that'll come in and then I'll be like, okay, what do you normally do for this weight? Yeah, and then they'll do it and I'll be like, you know, you could add like £10. No, I can't. Yeah, you can.
- [91:59]
Justin Andrews
Since she's new to this, like, yeah, she'll be sore a bit and you're gonna have to work through that. And I think, you know, because we've talked a lot about, like, that's not a good indicator of a good workout and this. But when you're brand new to the whole experience, you got to get through it.
- [92:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously it's opposite advice that I normally would give, which is, you know, hey, make sure you leave two in the tank. But when you have a client like that, a lot of times they have no idea what they're even capable of. And so whatever we're doing rep wise that day, I'm like, listen, you pick a weight that I want you to not be able to do that way, which is not normal advice I give to anybody else. But what that will. What happens a lot of times is they put a weight on and they end up surprising themselves and they end up doing it. It's like, oh, wow, you could have even went up higher.
- [92:38]
Justin Andrews
Our next caller is Morgan from New York.
- [92:41]
Sal Destefano
Hi, Morgan. How you doing?
- [92:42]
Adam Schafer
Morgan?
- [92:42]
Justin Andrews
Hello.
- [92:43]
Sal Destefano
Hi, how are you? I'm good.
- [92:46]
Caller Morgan
How are you guys?
- [92:46]
Sal Destefano
We're good. How can we help you?
- [92:49]
Caller Morgan
Okay, so I broke my fibula on a run. June, like 17th or something. I think I probably had some stress fractures that just finally had enough. And then I tripped and I fell, and I didn't think I fell that hard. So I walked around for two weeks and then realized something probably wasn't right. So long story short, I ended up in a walking boot and I was kind of trying to do single leg moves to try to prevent some of the atrophy, but at this point, I'm out of the boot. I'm still in a brace, but I have like no muscle on that leg. And so, like when I sent this email in, I was trying to combat that atrophy. At this point. Point it's already, already happened. So kind of just wondering what are the best ways to fix that imbalance? Like, do I only do that leg and try to catch it up? Do I try to do both legs and just balance them out that way? Yeah, I guess that is my question.
- [93:53]
Adam Schafer
He'll heal first. Map symmetry lead with the weaker leg first. It'll catch right up.
- [93:58]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Morgan, are you typically that kind of a fracture happens when you're just overdoing it with your exercise? That's why I just said heal and under eating. Is that you?
- [94:09]
Caller Morgan
I. I don't think so. I mean, I. I'm a marathoner, so I've always run, but I've had. I've never been hurt before, and I've been running for, like, 20 years, so I guess. I don't know.
- [94:23]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [94:23]
Caller Morgan
Do you under eat at one point, probably, but now I would tell you no.
- [94:29]
Sal Destefano
Okay, good. Good.
- [94:30]
Caller Morgan
I. I feel like I don't. So it came at a weird time because I felt like I was the strongest I'd ever had been, so I don't know.
- [94:37]
Sal Destefano
Okay. Bone takes longer to strengthen than muscle, so sometimes that muscle could go, and then the bone takes time to go. So there's a couple things here. One, you don't have to worry about the atrophy. Even if you didn't do what Adam said, which what he gave was great advice.
- [94:50]
Justin Andrews
Comes back pretty quick.
- [94:51]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Muscle memory is remarkable. So even just getting into regular workouts, that muscle will come back. Back so fast. So that's one thing that you want to consider. Here's the second thing, and this is counterintuitive, but there's interesting studies on this training the leg. So you're not fully healed yet, right?
- [95:07]
Caller Morgan
Correct. There's actually been. It's been annoying. I had an autoimmune disorder at some point, and so I feel like that's delayed my healing, But I'm still waiting because even though the leg never felt broken, the bone hasn't sort of built as much as they would have hoped for at my age. So. Yeah, still delayed healing.
- [95:27]
Sal Destefano
Okay. And I see you supplementing with vitamin D, calcium. Probably throw some magnesium in there. If you work on the healthy leg, it'll actually prevent some of the atrophy, believe it or not.
- [95:36]
Caller Morgan
Okay.
- [95:36]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. So keep working out the rest of the body.
- [95:38]
Justin Andrews
Machines will be great for this.
- [95:40]
Sal Destefano
Machines are good for. And then when you're ready to go unilateral training, and then be patient, and it'll catch up very quickly.
- [95:47]
Caller Morgan
Okay. So, like, with my. I've had my vitamin D and calcium checked, and I've had a lot of symptoms of vitamin B12 being low, but I had that checked as well. Do you. Is there anything else that could be causing the delayed healing?
- [96:03]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I mean, how are your calories?
- [96:06]
Caller Morgan
Before I got hurt, when I was running my normal workouts, and stuff. I was close to 3,000 every day. Now since being hurt, since I haven't had as much expenditure, I've cut it to like 2000 just because I'm not moving as much.
- [96:23]
Sal Destefano
Do you take methylated B vitamins?
- [96:26]
Caller Morgan
I don't take any B vitamins.
- [96:28]
Sal Destefano
Try methylated, because sometimes people have issues with absorption or sometimes B levels can look normal, but they're actually not adequate. So I would go methylated B vitamin, supplement D calcium, continue to feed your body, and when you're ready, start strength training. And then as far as the autoimmune condition is concerned, would you mind. Mind talking a little bit about that?
- [96:51]
Caller Morgan
Yeah. So when I was 16, they. I did probably have an eating disorder, and I was diagnosed with hyperactive thyroid. I lost all the weight, and it was kind of bad for a while, and then they sort of got me medicated on that, and then it became graves disease, and so I had Graves and Graves eye disease. And then for the last two years, I've been in remission, they say. So it's sort of calmed itself. I still get blood work to check in every six months, whatever. But, yeah, so basic. I'm in remission for that. But because of that autoimmune disorder, I'm probably just always gonna have a little bit of weirdness, you know, with hormones and everything.
- [97:35]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. And then you avoid gluten, right?
- [97:38]
Caller Morgan
I haven't. I've been tested for celiac, and it comes back negative, but I've never gone off gluten.
- [97:45]
Sal Destefano
I would avo it. You're probably okay, but whenever you see any kind of thyroid dysfunction, gluten oftentimes.
- [97:52]
Justin Andrews
Makes it worse, exacerbates it.
- [97:54]
Sal Destefano
Not always, but oftentimes. And it won't hurt. Alcohol, it wouldn't hurt. So I would cut the gluten, replace it with other carbohydrates, and do that for about 30 to 60 days and just see if you feel different and if you start to feel really good, stay off of it.
- [98:09]
Caller Morgan
Okay.
- [98:10]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. But that's it. It. Other than that, I think you're going to be okay.
- [98:14]
Adam Schafer
Take it easy, rest up, let it heal.
- [98:16]
Sal Destefano
Yep.
- [98:17]
Justin Andrews
Get a lot of sleep.
- [98:20]
Adam Schafer
Do we send Matt symmetry over to her? Send. Send. Map symmetry to her. So she has that, too, for afterwards.
- [98:25]
Caller Morgan
Yeah, that'd be awesome. I was doing performance before I got hurt, and then obviously kind of had to back off a little bit.
- [98:33]
Adam Schafer
So once you rehab and you're back to normal strength training, follow symmetry and lead with the. The weaker leg first to let it dictate what you do on the other side.
- [98:42]
Sal Destefano
You have access to vibration plate, by the way.
- [98:45]
Caller Morgan
I do not.
- [98:46]
Sal Destefano
Vibration plates can actually, in some cases, speed up the healing of bone. So that might look into it. I would say look into it and see if that's. If that's something you want to try. And it'd be pretty easy. You could just stand on it. And in some cases, that does help speed up the healing of bone.
- [99:04]
Caller Morgan
Okay. Do you mind if I ask one other random question? I know that's like the written rule in the email.
- [99:09]
Sal Destefano
No, you're good. You're good. Go for it. It's brilliant.
- [99:11]
Justin Andrews
Break it.
- [99:11]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [99:13]
Caller Morgan
So I. I'm obsessed with health and nutrition and everything, so I kind of did like a. A holistic blood test a little bit ago, and they came back saying that my. What was it? AST was too high. And so they actually said I probably had too much protein. Is that actually something to be worried about or.
- [99:36]
Sal Destefano
That's interesting. That's a liver enzyme. So that's. That's interesting. Are you on any medication or anything that could cause that?
- [99:43]
Caller Morgan
I don't think so. The only supplement I took before breaking my leg and adding in the vitamin D and calcium was creatine.
- [99:50]
Sal Destefano
Okay, and then your urea was good. Kidney function was good?
- [99:54]
Caller Morgan
Yeah, it was just the liver one. And then my BUN was a little high as well.
- [99:59]
Sal Destefano
BUN can be a little high when you exercise and stuff, so I wouldn't be worried about. But liver enzyme's interesting. That's an interesting one. 1. So I would look a little deeper in that. I doubt it's protein. It's pretty rare that protein would cause. I mean, what was your protein intake?
- [100:13]
Caller Morgan
I get close to 180 every day.
- [100:18]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, I mean, you could try lowering it to see if it does anything, but I doubt that's causing an elevation in that liver enzyme. Typically, it's like medication, alcohol, some kind of toxin. It could be something like that. But that's interesting. I would look deeper into that. That.
- [100:33]
Caller Morgan
Okay, I. I will see if I can figure something out with that.
- [100:37]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [100:39]
Caller Morgan
All right, thank you, guys.
- [100:40]
Sal Destefano
You got it. All right. Thanks for calling in.
- [100:41]
Caller Morgan
Yeah, God bless you, too.
- [100:43]
Sal Destefano
That's the first time I've heard someone say that high protein would cause. To go up.
- [100:48]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, the doctor just says. Tells her to lower it because he's.
- [100:52]
Sal Destefano
Like, how much protein? Yeah, yeah, that would be. That's an interesting one. Interesting.
- [100:56]
Adam Schafer
The thing about her on before. No, she looked really familiar earlier.
- [100:59]
Sal Destefano
The thing about her. Her bone not healing, though, is interesting. To me, that's really interesting. That's indicative.
- [101:05]
Adam Schafer
She did drop from 3,000 to 2,000 calories too. I doubt her, I doubt she was, she was making that much of a difference in her movement to drop a thousand.
- [101:15]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, but even then, like to be that young, that's indicative of like nutrient deficiency.
- [101:20]
Adam Schafer
Well, yeah, she had an eating disorder, so. And, and she's a marathon runner. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I mean that, that.
- [101:25]
Sal Destefano
I know that pernicious anemia, your B, your B, B levels can look like they're high, but you have symptoms of anemia. That's why I recommend methylated B vitamins because that could be the case when you have the. I think it's called the MTHFR gene variant.
- [101:39]
Adam Schafer
So another example, in my opinion of somebody who's marathon running is not good.
- [101:46]
Justin Andrews
It'S not beneficial, it tends to attract.
- [101:48]
Adam Schafer
It tends to attract the wrong person to do it. And it's like it's not that it in itself is bad, it's just that someone who comes from an eating disorder like that, eating low calories, doing endurance to type of training like that, the repetitive banging on the like, just not ideal. Just not ideal at all.
- [102:04]
Justin Andrews
Pure strength training. I know would be so much better.
- [102:07]
Sal Destefano
Yes, that's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.
- [102:11]
Justin Andrews
Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpump media.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.