Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth – Episode 2687

Guest: Zuby
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Release Date: September 18, 2025
Title: Zuby on the Current State of America

Overview

In this deeply relevant and emotionally charged episode, the Mind Pump hosts welcome back Zuby—artist, commentator, and newly minted father—for a wide-ranging discussion about the current state of America, collective trauma, the dangers of media manipulation, and how social media fuels polarization. The episode was recorded in the aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, providing a timely and personal lens on debates around crime, perception, tribalism, and public discourse.

Zuby offers a calm, measured, and insightful perspective on not only America’s divisions but on the personal tools we need to stay sane and compassionate in chaotic times. The conversation moves from Zuby’s reflections on fatherhood to deeper discussions on perceptions of crime, collective guilt, social media’s impact, and how to hold onto decency in a polarized world.

Episode Structure and Timestamps

• [02:13] – Zuby on Fatherhood & Life Changes
• [05:58] – Living in Dubai: Safety, Culture, and Laws
• [10:11] – Crime, Harsh Laws, and Cultural Perceptions
• [13:00] – Individual vs. Collective Guilt and Tribalism
• [17:42] – Are Our Divisions Orchestrated? Media Influence
• [25:21] – The Perception vs. Reality of Crime
• [29:19] – The Psychological Toll of Constant Negative Exposure
• [31:12] – Collectivization after the Killing of Charlie Kirk
• [33:30] – Zuby’s Social Media Response to the Tragedy
• [38:23] – Dangers of Pendulum Swings and Overreaction
• [43:29] – On Responsibility as Public Speakers/Public Figures
• [46:13] – Why Calm Minds Are Harder to Manipulate
• [51:13] – The Importance of Rooting Yourself in Real Life
• [54:24] – Parenting and Social Media: Lessons for the Next Generation
• [58:44] – Staying Grounded and Sane as a Commentator
• [62:10] – Traveling, Fear, and Avoiding Manipulation
• [64:46] – Final Reflections & Advice

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Fatherhood’s Transformative Impact

[02:13–05:26]

• Zuby shares how fatherhood has fundamentally shifted his priorities, moving him from self-focus to selflessness and long-term thinking.
• He credits his experience as an uncle with smoothing his transition.
• “As soon as I knew she was pregnant, I was like, yeah, I have a child...I quietly knew I have a child that's in the world. I just haven't seen them yet.” – Zuby [02:56]
• He notes the permanency and beauty of this change, refuting the cliché that “nobody is ever ready” to be a parent.

Life in Dubai: Safety, Culture, and Diverse Population

[05:58–10:11]

• Dubai is described as extremely safe, clean, futuristic, and family-oriented.
• Only about 10–15% of residents are native Emiratis; the rest are expats from all over the world.
• Zuby dispels common Western misconceptions about danger, gender oppression, and “harsh” laws in Dubai, highlighting that harsh legal penalties are mainly reserved for serious crimes like murder and drug trafficking.
• The lack of crime is largely attributed to an intentional, filtered immigration system and the absence of social welfare incentives for loitering or exploitation.
• “There aren’t just large swathes of people hanging around doing nothing…If you’re not working, you’re not eating, you’re not accommodating yourself, there’s nothing for you.” – Zuby [08:37]

U.S. Crime, Law, and Social Attitudes

[10:11–12:54]

• Hosts and Zuby discuss America’s approach to crime: repeated criminal releases, leniency, and resultant high recidivism.
• They contrast harsh, immediate justice in Dubai/Saudi Arabia with U.S. policies––the “liberal, progressive, soft on crime mentality.”
• “By the time someone murders someone, usually they've been like arrested and. 20 times, literally. Yeah, 20 times. And been let out again and again and again.” – Zuby [12:31]

The Dangers of Collective Guilt and Tribalism

[13:00–17:42]

• Zuby warns about the human tendency toward collectivism and collective blame—how easily tragedies are turned into political or racial narratives.
• He emphasizes the risk of a pendulum swing: over-correcting leftist excesses with right-wing collectivism.
• “There are bad people in every single demographic...But I have the same—so I'm as responsible for that stabbing that happened in Charlotte as you are…Like what connection do I have?” – Zuby [16:01]
• He advocates a steadfast commitment to individualism and careful resistance to mass scapegoating.

Media Manipulation & Narrative Framing

[17:42–29:08]

• The hosts and Zuby dive into how media, politicians, and algorithm-driven platforms selectively amplify incidents to serve left or right agendas.
• “What gets orchestrated is things happen. And then either political parties or media will grab something and run with it and create a distorted perception…” – Sal [23:32]
• The gap between perception (especially on crime and racism) and objective reality is explored; people believe what repeated, emotionally charged coverage suggests, not what data shows.

Social Media and the Human Psyche

[29:19–31:12]

• Constant barrage of violent, negative, emotionally intense content isn’t “normal” for the human mind.
• This can lead to skewed perceptions, chronic fear, divisiveness, and outrage fatigue.
• “There's a balance between being informed and just being inundated with like, horrible stuff...to the point that you become very fearful or incapacitated.” – Zuby [29:19]

The Collective Response to Tragedy and the Kirk Assassination

[31:12–36:34]

• Discussing how tragedy tempts people to demonize entire groups (political or otherwise).
• Zuby stresses the need for unity and civility, even in the face of heated disagreements.
• “I urge you to not become as callous and soulless as the enemies, as your enemies during the process.” – Zuby quoting his own tweet [33:55]
• The danger in social media amplifying minority voices of hatred/vilification is highlighted; most Americans, despite online evidence, don’t celebrate violence.

The Dangers of Overreaction and the Importance of Tempering Public Discourse

[38:23–43:29]

• Discussing the pendulum swing from left to right, and the dangers of authoritarian, reactionary policies masked as patriotism.
• Fear and anger make societies susceptible to manipulation and overreach, as seen in the wake of 9/11.
• Zuby: “When people are angry or fearful, generally they make bad decisions, especially in groups.” [40:44]
• The power and danger of the media and public figures are underscored—freedom of speech comes with the responsibility to consider consequences.

Debate, Violence, and the Need for Rational Discourse

[43:29–46:13]

• Zuby outlines the only three ways to resolve conflict: dialogue, separation, or violence, strongly advocating for civil debate as the most critical tool for a pluralistic nation.
• “If people can no longer talk and discuss and debate, no matter how uncomfortable…it can only lead to separation or violence.” – Zuby [45:09]
• Calm, centered people are far harder to manipulate than those who are angry and afraid.

Anchoring in the Real World & Avoiding the Online Abyss

[51:13–54:24]

• The hosts urge listeners to ground themselves in real-world relationships and experiences.
• Online outrage cycles can warp reality; most people behave better in person than online.
• Zuby highlights how online experience can distort perceptions to the point of irrational fear.
• “Almost everything is worse online than it is in real life…I know people in the UK who are afraid to step foot in the usa. I know people in the USA who are afraid to step foot in the uk.” – Zuby [51:13]

Parenting in an Age of Social Media

[54:24–58:44]

• Zuby and the hosts discuss parenting strategies around screens and social media.
• Delaying device and social exposure is the best approach—“I think I have some advantages…this experiment [social media] has been running 20 years, so I can see the patterns.” – Zuby [55:20]
• Peer pressure among children is real, but as more parents become aware, group resistance will increase.

Staying Balanced as a Public Figure

[58:44–62:10]

• Zuby shares his strategies: faith, family, fitness, hobbies, and routine social media breaks.
• “Every week, I take every Sunday off social media…I take a break every seven days. Even if it's just one day, it makes a significant difference.” – Zuby [59:12]
• He bases his views on his real-world experience, refusing to let online negativity govern his worldview.

Traveling the World, Facing Fear, and Building Perspective

[62:10–64:46]

• Zuby makes a case for living “not by fear,” travel, and first-hand engagement as the antidote to manipulation and irrational anxiety.
• “Live not by fear. Take reasonable precautions, but you don’t need to just hide in one little corner of the globe…” – Zuby [62:25]
• Drawing a parallel with dietary discipline, Sal notes the power of recognizing your own susceptibility to manipulation: step back when needed.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “As soon as I knew she was pregnant, I was like, yeah, I have a child…I quietly knew I have a child that's in the world. I just haven't seen them yet.” – Zuby [02:56]
• “If you're not working, you're not eating, you're not accommodating yourself, there's nothing for you.” – Zuby on Dubai [08:37]
• “I'm as responsible for that stabbing that happened in Charlotte as you are…Like what connection do I have?” – Zuby [16:01]
• “What gets orchestrated is things happen. And then either political parties or media will grab something and run with it and create a distorted perception…” – Sal [23:32]
• “There's a balance between being informed and just being inundated with like, horrible stuff...to the point that you become very fearful or incapacitated.” – Zuby [29:19]
• “I urge you to not become as callous and soulless as the enemies, as your enemies during the process.” – Zuby quoting his own tweet [33:55]
• “When people are angry or fearful, generally they make bad decisions, especially in groups.” – Zuby [40:44]
• “If people can no longer talk and discuss and debate, no matter how uncomfortable…it can only lead to separation or violence.” – Zuby [45:09]
• “Almost everything is worse online than it is in real life.” – Zuby [51:13]
• “Every week, I take every Sunday off social media…I take a break every seven days. Even if it's just one day, it makes a significant difference.” – Zuby [59:12]
• “Live not by fear. Take reasonable precautions, but you don’t need to just hide in one little corner of the globe…” – Zuby [62:25]

Final Reflections & Advice

• Prioritize real-world experience over online narratives; most of what you see online is a distortion.
• Be mindful of your mental well-being; take active breaks from social and news media.
• Approach others as individuals, not as representatives of collectives or abstract enemies.
• Remember that dialogue is the primary, most important tool for a diverse society; violence is never an answer.
• Parents: delay and curate your children’s exposure to social/digital media—community and consistency matter.
• Recognize the incentives of media and politics to stoke fear and anger; resolve to stay grounded and rational for your own health and society’s sake.

A measured, insightful, and much-needed conversation in chaotic times—listen for an antidote to outrage.