2691: 7 Red Flags That Your Workout Isn’t Working

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2691: 7 Red Flags That Your Workout Isn’t Working

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: September 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the "7 Red Flags That Your Workout Isn’t Working"—how to identify if your program is no longer delivering results, even if you "feel" like you’re doing everything right. The Mind Pump crew breaks down each red flag, explains the science and psychology behind them, and weaves in practical advice and real coaching calls with listeners. Their aim: help you waste less time, avoid injury, and focus on what delivers meaningful, sustainable results.

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7 Red Flags Your Workout Isn’t Working

1. You Aren’t Making Strength Gains (03:56)

• The most obvious but overlooked indicator. If your lifts aren’t getting stronger—especially in your first few years of training—your program isn’t working.
• Sal: “Nothing predicts muscle gain like strength. Nothing comes close.” (06:04)
• Beginners should see steady progress. Even poorly designed programs often lead to gains for newbies. If you’re spinning your wheels, programming is the likely culprit, as long as diet and recovery are in check.

2. You Get Sore Every Time (07:18)

• Consistently sore after every session? It’s often a sign of poor programming, not effectiveness.
• Soreness is normal after novel workouts, but repeated soreness signals not enough adaptation and probably too much intensity or volume.
• Justin: “You end up just causing damage and you’re not actually adapting at this point.” (08:17)
• Sal: "The best progress … were in workouts that produced little to no soreness." (11:50)

3. Your Sleep Quality Gets Worse (12:56)

• Well-planned exercise should improve sleep, not ruin it.
• If training leads to restless sleep, it’s a hallmark sign of overreaching or overtraining.
• Doug: “If I get that restless sleep energy, that’s just, oh man, you can’t shake it. It’s like I’m overtraining a bit.” (13:17)

4. You Feel Tired Instead of Energized (13:54)

• Training should boost daily energy, not drain it.
• Sal: “You should be more energized, not less.” (15:34)
• The best workout leaves you feeling like you could do more—not totally spent.

5. You’re Starting to Hate Working Out (16:36)

• You won’t be consistent with something you dread, regardless of its theoretical effectiveness.
• Sal: “If you absolutely hate it and you like other forms of exercise, don’t do it.” (16:36)
• The right program is not just effective—it’s sustainable and enjoyable.

6. You Keep Getting Injured—Especially in the Same Spots (19:47)

• Recurring injuries reflect bad programming, not just “bad luck.”
• Watch out for poor exercise sequencing, too much intensity, inadequate recovery, or chronic overuse.
• Sal: “If you keep getting the same issue … it’s your program, you gotta change it.” (20:42)
• Injury rates are highest in the early months of training, but they should be close to zero with sound programming.

7. Your Appetite Declines or Flatlines (23:12)

• Productive training often increases appetite (a sign that your body is trying to fuel growth and recovery).
• No change or a drop in appetite can mean overstress or under-recovery.
• Adam: “If we are sending a signal to build muscle and you’re not seeming to feel an appetite kick up, maybe there’s something we’re not doing.” (24:15)

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Deep Dives & Notable Moments

The Soreness Myth and “No Pain, No Gain” (07:18–13:00)

• Chasing soreness is a common but misguided strategy—often intensified by trends like CrossFit and the normalization of high-stress “lifestyle backgrounds” (social media, work, politics).
• Adam: “[Soreness] feels more common than … when I was a 20 year old trainer.” (08:43)
• Recovery and low-level chronic stress are discussed as key, often overlooked stressors that impact results.

Adherence and Enjoyment are as Important as “Optimal” (16:36)

• Justin: “You can white knuckle it only so far. … Where’s the longevity in that?” (17:27)
• Adam: “If you love doing it, I don’t want to take movement away from you, even if it’s not the most effective for muscle.” (17:42)
• The team stresses reframing results to include sleep, mood, productivity, and wellbeing—not just the mirror or scale.

Program Quality versus Blind Consistency (19:47–24:15)

• Examples of poor program structure: heavy squats after heavy deadlifts, excessive “core” before big lifts.
• Doug: “There’s a lot of ways to avoid [injury].” (23:10)
• Productive programs create steady strength gains, limit repetitive injuries, and set off subtle but noticeable boosts in hunger for quality food, not insatiable cravings.

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Science & Broader Context

Boredom, Movement, and “Mental Restoration” (26:00–29:45)

• Discussion of a boredom study (men choosing to administer electric shocks rather than sit idle).
• Sal: “When you’re bored, this is when you ponder the big questions… and for the first time, we’ve eliminated all boredom.” (26:26)
• Movement—walking, not just sitting—can be the most productive form of ‘boredom’ or reflection.

The Role of Peptides in Recovery (29:45–34:16)

• Stories about the effectiveness of BPC-157, Thymosin Beta, and Thymosin Alpha for healing and immune system support.
• Anecdotes and research discussion highlight the sometimes contentious regulatory history during COVID.

Muscle Mommy Movement & Women’s Fitness Community (34:16–37:03)

• Sal, Adam, and Justin discuss launching a women-only muscle-building forum, emphasizing the unique needs and conversations that arise in a gender-specific context, plus the value of “the right app” for community building.

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Listener Coaching Calls & Practical Advice

These segments deliver practical case studies highlighting the episode’s themes.

1. Austin: The Overworked, Underslept, and Underfed Dad (62:35)

• Working a physical job, not making progress, and struggling with tendonitis, sleep, and “carnivore fatigue.”
• Advice: Don’t chase big, frequent workouts; focus on MAPS 15 Performance for a low-dose, high-frequency, sustainable approach. Prioritize calories, sleep, and consider gut health. Let go of chasing abs at all costs.
• Key quote:
  Adam: “Sleep and getting enough calories are number one and number two.” (75:10)

2. Juliana: Lifelong Athlete, “Quad-Dominant” Squat, Lagging Glutes (80:32)

• She feels squats in quads but not glutes, plus some hip discomfort.
• Advice: Use hip thrusts as a primer or swap for one squat session per week, and don’t force squat stance beyond what feels natural—sumo deadlifts also help.
• Sal: “Hip thrusts are not a better glute developer than squats—unless you’re somebody who has a tough time feeling your glutes.” (84:12)

3. Aaron: Formerly Overweight, Now Cutting Too Aggressively (87:18)

• History of yo-yo dieting; stalled out eating too few calories for his size.
• Advice: Reverse diet—slowly add calories by ~200 every two weeks, focus on building strength, forget the scale for now.
• Adam: “You eating that low calories, you stepping that much, you’re not going to get fat on 2500.” (91:09)

4. Libby: New Mom, Recovering from a History of Overdoing Fitness (94:51)

• Recovering from pregnancy and a background of excessive training; struggles with sleep, overreliance on fitness trackers, and wrist pain post-pregnancy.
• Advice: Embrace a slow, sustainable return; don’t try to “grind” your way back. Consider coaching for accountability and mindset. For wrist pain, check baby-holding positions, do gentle mobility, and use a brace.
• Sal: “You can’t grind yourself into better health. It just isn’t gonna work.” (97:45)

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Notable Quotes

• Sal (on soreness):
  “The best progress I ever get personally and the best progress my clients ever got were in workouts that produced little to no soreness.” (11:50)
• Adam (on the mirror):
  “If you’re getting stronger, you’re moving in the right direction…including the mirror, including the scale.” (06:00)
• Justin (on loving your workout):
  “You can white knuckle it only so far…Where’s the continuation of that? Where’s the longevity in that?” (17:14)
• Adam (on adherence):
  “If you love doing it, I don’t want to take movement away from you, even if it’s not the best and most effective way for you to build muscle.” (17:42)
• Sal (on fitness post-baby):
  “You can't approach your fitness like you did your law degree. It just won't work. You can't grind yourself into better health. It just isn't gonna work… Am I developing the right relationship with fitness?” (97:45, 100:34)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:56 — Red Flag #1: Not getting stronger
• 07:18 — Red Flag #2: Always sore
• 12:56 — Red Flag #3: Sleep getting worse
• 13:54 — Red Flag #4: Lower daily energy
• 16:36 — Red Flag #5: Hating workouts
• 19:47 — Red Flag #6: Repeat injury
• 23:12 — Red Flag #7: Appetite drop
• 26:00 — Boredom, social media, and mental health
• 29:45 — Peptides for healing and immune function
• 34:16 — Muscle Mommy Movement
• 62:35 — Listener Call: Austin (fatigued dad, post-carnivore, tendonitis)
• 80:32 — Listener Call: Juliana (glute activation)
• 87:18 — Listener Call: Aaron (weight cycling, aggressive cutting)
• 94:51 — Listener Call: Libby (postpartum fitness, recovery, joint pain)

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Tone and Takeaways

• Science-based, myth-busting, and direct (“no fitness institution or ‘truth’ is safe”).
• Empathetic toward busy adults, parents, and those dealing with real-life recovery, sleep, and lifestyle struggles.
• Consistently emphasize sustainability, enjoyment, and health as the cornerstones of lasting transformation.
• Practical: Listeners are coached through program choice, injury recovery, nutrition, and motivation.
• A running thread: If your program is leaving you exhausted, sore, and hating the process—it’s time to change.

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Bottom Line:
A “good” workout is more than just sweat and soreness. Real progress is marked by sustainable strength gains, better sleep, higher energy, positivity, resilience to injury, and a relationship with fitness you can sustain for life. If you spot these “red flags,” don’t push harder—pivot smarter.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[A]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[C]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[A]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, people called in and we coached them on their health and fitness on air. It was a good time, but this was after the intro. Today's intro is 58 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fat loss and muscle gain and diet and supplements, current events, family life. It's a good time as well. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, if you want to call in, have us coach you, send us your question. Send it to liveindpumpmedia.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Mphormones.com doctors there can see if you're a candidate for hormone replacement therapy. Whether you're male or female and or peptide therapy. There's a lot of peptides out there that have some pretty incredible benefits, including GLP1 peptides. You can get them there as well. Go to mphormones.com this episode is also brought to you by Brain FM. They play music that's engineered to induce different states of mind. In other words, if you listen to focus, it changes your brain waves to Ones that mirror focus. There's meditation, there's sleep. You got to try it out. Try it out for free for 30 days. It'll blow your mind. Go to brain.fm forward/mindpump. Also right now, flash sale Maps performance is 50% off, half off one of our most popular maps programs. Head over to maps performance.com. use the code athlete50. That's athlete50 for that discount. All right, real quick.

[D]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over atmypumpstore.com. i'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it.

[B]

Enjoy the rest of the show. T shirt time.

[C]

And it's T shirt time.

[B]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know, it's my favorite time of the week.

[C]

Only one winner this week, that's for Apple Podcasts is JW wvu. You are the winner. It's a name I just read to [e-mail] include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. And for the rest of you, leave a review on Apple podcasts or Facebook. You have a very good chance of winning because, hey, if we have no other people applying, well, then you are the winner. So again, go to Apple Podcasts or Facebook and leave a review.

[A]

All right. By now, you know strength training is awesome. One of the best ways to exercise, change your body shape and sculpt the way you look. But check it out. Not all strength training programs are great. In fact, some of them suck. We're gonna talk about seven red flags that your strength training program. Well, it's not working. Let's get to it.

[B]

Did you steal this from my reel that went up today?

[A]

No. Did you put one up?

[B]

Of course. Yes. Come on, guys. It was. It was the three. The three. Three ways. What was it? Three ways, Dylan, or the three reasons your. Your workouts suck. Is that what it was? Something like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, the girls just posted it. Well, this is seven, so I had more. Yeah, let's hear it.

[A]

Well, though, so, you know, this is good because oftentimes people will follow a program and because they're working and moving, especially if they sweat or it feels hard, they may for a long time think that it's. It's good. This is a good program. It's hard. So therefore, it must be doing something. Sure. But that's not the case. If you're following a workout program, there are definite red flags. That you might need to find a different workout program and strength training in particular. All workout programs have programming. In other words, you follow a particular way of doing it and you'll produce better results. This is especially true of strength training. Strength training is one of the most scientific forms of exercise. Programming makes a huge difference with strength training much more than other forms of exercise. So let's talk about the first red flag. This is the quite obvious one, but you would be shocked or surprised. I said I was shocked as a trainer when I trained people and they didn't pick up on this. You're not making any strength gains. Well, your program's not working. Yeah. It's just not. What.

[D]

It's right there in front of you, period.

[A]

End of story. By the way, all of these are, in the context of diet is good. Other things are good. Right. Because you could have a good program and your diet could be terrible and that might be the problem. So this is like everything else seems to be okay, but your program is not producing strength. Strength training should make you stronger. Now, there is a small subset of people where this becomes less and less true. If you're super advanced, the more advanced you get. That's right.

[B]

I mean, this is especially true, though, in the first couple years, first three years, you're in the first few years of your training and you're not seeing relatively consistent strength gains, then that something's wrong with programming.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. It means it's not working. It literally means it's not working for whatever reason.

[B]

And part of why that is is because early on, when all of this is so novel, even subpar programming. Oh, yeah, you're going to see strength gains. So if you're not seeing strength gains, there's. There's a real problem in the programming.

[A]

That's right. That's right. Now, if you're advanced at some point, you can't just keep getting stronger. Right. If that was the case, every one of us in here would be, you know, we'd be bench pressing £10,000. Right? Yeah. So. But the first few years, like the best, correlate for whether or not you're progressing in terms of muscle gain, whether or not you're, you know, getting all the benefits of that, you know, better metabolism, you know, hormone benefits is strength. Nothing predicts muscle gain like strength. Nothing comes close. So this is the key, at least. Again, like Adam said, for the first three years of your training, if all you ever did was pay attention to whether or not you were getting stronger, that would direct you in a better direction than anything else, including the mirror, including the scale or circumference measurements or anything else. Like, if you're getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction.

[D]

If you're not adequate recovery, you know, your hormones are balanced, like, you have to do a lot of things right to be able to kind of see that in your program.

[A]

That's right. 100%. Next up, you get sore every single time. This is going to ruffle people.

[B]

Yeah, I was going to say this is going to surprise or ruffle feathers for sure. Because at the end, I think we're all just as guilty of chasing the soreness as if it was the best indicator of a good workout, and the opposite is true.

[A]

That's right. Soreness will happen when you change up your programming, your rep range, you try a new exercise. But if you get sore after every single workout, especially if you're repeating the workout so you've been following the same program, there's nothing new. It's not like you added a bunch of weight to the bar, and every time you work out, you're sore for two days afterwards. It's probably not working. In fact, this one typically goes along with the first one. You get sore after every workout. You're not getting stronger.

[D]

Yeah, and I think that that's a misleading thing for a lot of people, too, because it's like, you start to feel that as an indicator that I.

[A]

Broke my muscles down.

[D]

And so therefore, now this is going to turn into, like, the building process where I'm going to get muscle. But you keep doing that over and over again, and, you know, you end up just, like, causing damage and you're not actually adapting at this point.

[B]

Do you. Do you guys find that this conversation has become more relevant or more important today than it was just 20 years ago?

[A]

I don't know if it's more. I had this conversation forever, man. But you feel like it's more important.

[B]

I do. I just. And what I'm alluding to is two. What I think are major factors that played a role in that. I do think that CrossFit played a role in a role in that. And then just the amount of low, chronic stress that everybody deals with, I think has played a massive role in that, too. I think that a lot of people are just. Are. Have that. That low level that you don't think is that bad. You know, you're on social media all the time. You're stressed out about that. Financially, things are tough. The economy's been rough. Politics are crazy in the last decade or two, I think you've got a lot of that stuff going on behind the scenes. And so, because at least when I pay attention to a lot of the, the people that we help out, it seems that that advice feels more common than what it was when I was a 20 year old trainer. Does it not to you? Does it feel the same?

[A]

Yeah. You know what, you're making some good points. I mean, low level. It's funny you brought up the news cycle. Right. Social media, I mean, when you're stuck on that all the time, which it's, it's funny when you look at the data. In fact, I was going to talk about this later and we'll get to it. About being bored. We have no moments of, of nothing. Yeah, we just don't. We fill every second of every day.

[B]

With something and a lot of that something is stress.

[A]

Right. In social media's algorithms, it's, it's like processed food. It's engineered to keep you engaged. In fact, it's worse than processed food. Processed food had scientists go in and engineer food and it took, it took them decades to like start to really put things together. Your algorithm modifies itself on the fly. So it's like eating food that modifies itself as you're eating it to make it perfect for you.

[B]

Also you can make the argument that processed pro, even processed food, especially good, high protein processed food, has value to building muscle and has some value even though it's.

[A]

Oh, that has no.

[B]

You're right, that has no.

[A]

No value.

[B]

No value.

[A]

No, no. So this constant flood of, you know, just information, comparison, that's all that's keeping things slightly above normal. So that kind of low level stress and you're probably not active while you're doing it, you're not out in the sun. So that's a great, that's.

[D]

You never really fully recover. I mean it's like kind of that low level that you carry on with you and it's like not a, not a bad.

[B]

I mean you add the, the, the stress, you add the divide in politics that we've seen in the last decade. You add all that up with that.

[A]

And sleep got worse.

[B]

Yeah. I just don't think that we can tolerate the same level of intensity in the gym as that we could. And I know there's a bunch of people that are screaming because there's, there's still a subset of people that are like absolutely sedentary, need movement. So like that. But in general, like when I think about all the people that we've been helping for over two decades. It feels that way to me. This was a common thing that I'd have to help people with, but I feel like it's way more common. And you just kind of replay in your head briefly just all the people that we've had call in. Like, how often is the advice Scale back. Scale back.

[A]

Yeah, I know. With the soreness, it's interesting. The best progress I ever get personally and the best progress my clients ever got were in workouts that produced little to no soreness. Oftentimes, no soreness is where the best workouts and how do I know they were the best workouts to get the best results? Strength gains went through the roof. In fact, soreness was, for me, a sign that I needed to scale back. Almost always, if a client came to me on a Thursday and we had worked out on a Monday, I'm like, hey, how'd you feel after your workout? Oh, man, I was. I'm still a little sore. Okay. It was too hard. It was. It was, you know, maybe too much volume. We're going to scale back. That's how I use soreness. So if you're sore after every single workout, it's not working for you. By the way, I don't care what your workout is. So a workout may be well programmed for someone else. It's not working for you. That's true for all of these. So some workouts are bad for everybody, but some workouts are just not right for you. Yeah. Next, your sleep quality gets worse. So all the data will show that exercise, when applied properly, improves the quality of your sleep. If you start working out and you suddenly have trouble sleeping or you suddenly start waking up several times in the middle of the night, it's your workout. And that's a number one sign, by the way, that you're overdoing it typically is that you're sleep. So it should improve your sleep quality, not make it worse. If it gets worse, it's time to look at the workout.

[D]

That's a big indicator for me. If I get that restless sleep energy, that's just, oh, man, you can't shake it. It's like I'm over training a bit.

[B]

And the. I mean, personally, the right dose is magical for me. Getting like, I know a huge difference. I go on runs all the time where I admittedly talk about I'm not working out or I'm not lifting. I don't get the best sleep when I'm not working out. But when I start training, my sleep is so Much better. And there is that fine line of the proper amount of volume and intensity training and how much of that before it goes the opposite direction. But it's. When done appropriately, it makes a big difference in your rest.

[A]

The next one is that your normal daily energy gets worse. So if you're following a workout program that's producing crashes throughout the day, it's not working for you. This was me for years. For years. Especially as a kid, I thought the harder I went, the better. In fact, some of my first workouts I bought. One of the first fitness books I ever bought was Arnold Schwarzenegger's Encyclopedia Bodybuilding. I still own it. In fact, I think we have it here somewhere. It's all taped up.

[B]

Used to be a.

[A]

But it's a thick book.

[D]

It's been used in a beast.

[A]

Most of that. Most of that I think Doug uses as a booster. I don't think you'd be able to.

[B]

I don't think you'd be able to see the table if you didn't have it underneath.

[A]

Don't sit on that, dude. That's my favorite book. It's. It's most of that book. Sorry, Doug. Most of that book is.

[C]

Never gets told.

[B]

It just keeps on giving.

[A]

He's gonna. He's gonna stab you one day. Most of that book is exercises. And when I first got that book, my workout was everything. I literally opened the book, I went to page one, and I did every single. I did two or three sets of all of it, every exercise. I remember I was in the backyard for three hours. Something like that.

[B]

Arnold was a volume monster.

[A]

Yeah. But even he didn't follow that. It was just giving me all the. It was just giving me multiple exercise per body part. I just did all of them. Yeah. And I'll never forget, like, I was just in school, I'd be like, oh, my God, I'm dying. I come home, take a nap. My mom's like, what's wrong with you? And then I'd wake up from a nap, go outside, work out for three hours. Yeah, I was beating the crap out of myself. But anyway, your energy. A good workout program should give you more energy on the times you're not working out. You should be more energized, not less.

[B]

Another way to even evaluate that is immediately after, like, I know when I. When I'm doing just the right dose, I actually. And it took a while to train myself to be able to do this, because I leave going, oh, I could do more. You know, I leave going, like, oh, I'VE got more in me. But that's the perfect place to leave. Not the, oh my God, I just cashed everything out and you're walking, take a nap. Yeah, you're walking out. So spent. And so it is learning to, to, to walk away when you still feel like you have something left in the tank. And then if you do that, the rest of the day seems to like get better and better and better with energy versus the opposite of, oh, I still got more, I'm gonna go back and do more sets. And then you're kind of dragging ass.

[A]

The rest of it. One of the reasons the, there's two reasons why I work out first thing in the morning. One is it just works on my schedule. But two is because it makes me better here.

[B]

Oh yeah. Sets the tone.

[A]

It does. I come in after my workout and, you know, we start recording probably two hours, an hour or so after I'm done. And I just feel that's how you should feel.

[B]

Even being an anti morning guy. I do know that the times that I've done that, it's always made my.

[A]

It's the best. Yeah, it's the best. Next up, this one. A lot of people don't even consider this, but, but this is a red flag. You're beginning to hate your workout. By the way, I don't care how effective your workout is on paper, if you hate it, it's not a good workout. Just period, end of story. A good trainer knows this. A good trainer knows that part of their job is to get you to develop a relationship with exercise where you enjoy it. So I don't care what the workout, I don't even care if it's strength training. We tout strength training from the rooftops. But if you absolutely hate it and you like other forms of exercise, don't do it. Yeah. Because doing something you hate isn't going to be something you're going to do very long. It just doesn't.

[D]

They can, I mean, you can white knuckle it only so far. And it's like some people, that's their perception of what workouts are and what fitness is all about is like white knuckling it till you get to the point where you're happy with where you got.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And then it's like, but where's the continuation of that? Where's the longevity in that? It just doesn't exist. So you got to find a way to enjoy it.

[B]

Well, this is why. That's one of the follow up questions we always have. When, even when somebody Says something that they run X amount of times a week. We almost always go, do you like it?

[A]

That's.

[B]

Or do you love doing it? Because if you love doing it, I don't want to take movement away from you, even if it's not the best and most effective way for you to build muscle. So if I'm talking to somebody and they're like, oh, I want to lean out, I want to build muscle, and I run three times a week, and I absolutely love it, and it's therapeutic for me and I enjoy it. Even though I know that's not the most effective way for them to build muscle and then lean out, I still would incorporate it or allow them to do it because it's something they love to do.

[A]

That's right. Now, there's two ways to approach this. One is to learn to enjoy and love what you're doing if it's effective. This is where I always point people. So if the workout is effective and it is producing results that you want, I don't think it's hard to go from not liking it to liking it. In fact, this is what I got good at towards the end of my career, is I got people who hated working out to enjoy working out. Part of it was they started to really see the benefit, the full scale and spectrum of benefits. The second option is, if that doesn't work, then don't do it. Try something different.

[B]

I do. I'm glad you said that, though, because I do think for a lot of people, part of this process is actually just reframing. Right. Because there's a lot of people that will claim they don't like it.

[A]

That's most of it.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And a lot of it has to do with. Because you are purely looking at the scale or the mirror as the indicator of how successful this workout is or is not. The sooner you learn to attach it to other things like mood, energy, sleep, libido, all that productivity, it's your job, you know, better father at home. Like, once you start connecting the dots that, oh, this workout doesn't just get me, you know, a different number on the scale or a different looking body in the mirror, it also does all these other things. It becomes a lot easier to reframe how much you enjoy or like working out. I even being a workout person, I would say that I don't love to work out. I've learned to love to work out because I recognize all the positive things that it brings to my life aside from what I can do esthetically in the mirror. Or what I can do on the.

[D]

Scale can't just be means to the end, you know? Yeah, you have to enjoy it 100%.

[A]

Next, you have repeating injuries. So the occasional injury may happen, especially if you're pushing intensity or chasing a specific goal during a season where you're kind of sprinting with your program. But if you continue to get repeating injuries, especially in the same areas, your programming's not good. And a big consideration with workout programming for people who put together like strength training routines is, does this combination of exercises, does this order of exercises, does the way the days line up, do the micro cycles and mesocycles, do those reduce risk of injury or do they increase risk of injury? Like, I'll give you a silly example like this one. Most people know this, but like, you wouldn't do heavy deadlifts and then go do heavy barbell squats right afterwards. The, the, the, the injury risk goes through the roof because you've just fatigued the heck out of your erector spinae muscles, your posterior chain with a deadlift. Then you go to barbell squats and you're kind of setting yourself up for another example would be like, hammer your core and then go, do you know barbell squats? Those are easy examples, but there's many that people just don't see. And if you're following a workout program that you got online or that you kind of put together yourself and you keep getting the same issue, the same knee issue, the same hip issue, the same shoulder, elbow, whatever, it's your program, you gotta change it.

[D]

Well, it's an interesting one because you'll see this a lot with people that really enjoy this intense class setting or like momentum based fitness, and they get really engulfed by it. And it's like, they'll come back with an injury like a month later, two months later, and it's like, oh, I just need to work myself back to it. And then they do the same thing again and then get injured again. And then they just like, not, not like really critically analyzing. Like, is this really benefiting me and my body? Like, not sometimes. It might be a bit of ignorance, like, I don't know that I could do it differently. This is just like what kind of worked for me. And then maybe I just need to back off a little bit.

[B]

This is actually pretty common. Do you guys remember Doug? Maybe you can look up stats on how, how common is it that somebody gets injured in the first, you know, six months or they're working. It's a pretty, it's a Pretty high.

[A]

Percentage in the beginning.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Especially for repetitive like. Like, I remember.

[B]

I remember knowing this stat because that was one of the ways that I used to pitch personal training was just like. And by the way, statistically, this many people get injured in the first couple months.

[D]

Just people used to justify this all the time to me. And I'd ask them, like, oh, did you have any injury? And they're like, no. And then they look, well, actually, I had like, this ankle thing and I had a shoulder. And it's like, it'. You know, it's just convenient because they enjoy it so much.

[A]

By the way, this happens with strength training, too. Like, somebody would be following, let's say, a good strength training program. They're getting stronger, they're progressing, but they refuse to move out of it. And the next thing you know, they have shoulder pain or elbow pain. Then they use the elbow sleeve, then they use this, then they use that to try to remedy the issue without realizing that that program's not working anymore.

[B]

Say 15 to 30%.

[A]

Yeah. Correct.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And 30% for the first 12 months in CrossFit.

[A]

That's low.

[B]

I still think it's underreported still.

[A]

Yeah, those people are embarrassed. Yeah, that's. That's. That's high, dude.

[B]

That's really high. Are you kidding me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

30 of people that are gonna get hurt.

[A]

But, you know, if you follow good programming, your odds of getting hurt the first year should be close to zero.

[D]

Yeah, you don't need to get injured. That's the thing.

[A]

No, no, no.

[D]

There's a lot of ways to avoid that.

[A]

Not at all. All right, last, your appetite declines. Good programming will actually do this. Now, I'm not talking about the crazy cravings, ravenous hunger, because bad overtraining tends to cause that as well, but just a nice general increase in appetite, especially from strength training, is a sign you're doing the right thing. Your body wants you to feed it a little bit, and you're going to feed it more nutrients to help with the muscle growth. If you're following a workout program that causes that gets to the point where you're like, you just lost your appetite. That's a bad sign, even.

[B]

I mean, you could even potentially say flat, like, especially early on, because early on, if done correctly, again, you're sending a signal for your body to build muscle. It is going to want more calories, more nutrients in order to do that. And so it's very normal to see a nice increase if you're declining really bad. But I Think even if you're flatlined early on like, that, that's typically a sign too. Like, okay, there's something that we need to tweak here, because if we are sending a signal to build muscle and you're not seeming to feel an appetite kick up, maybe there's something we're not doing.

[A]

This was so predictable that I would tell my clients, because we see it all the time. Yeah. Because as a trainer, you want to get good at predicting things for your clients, so it doesn't surprise them. So I'd have a client, I'm seeing that they're getting stronger, and then I'll tell them, hey, expect your appetite to go up. What do you mean? Well, we're getting stronger. You're building muscle. If you find yourself getting hungrier than you normally do, that's a good sign. And I'll let them know ahead of time so I don't freak out. But it's so predictable. So predictable. All right, I got. I want to talk about the boredom study, because you talked about how people. You brought it up earlier about how it's crazy. So, you know that study that. I think Arthur Brooks brought it up on a podcast. He did, and I talked about it once on the show. There's a famous study on boredom where they took a group of men, they put them in a room. I don't know how long they were in the room for. It was like an hour. And they had two options. You either sit there, or you push this button and shock yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So you can sit there or shock yourself. It was a painful shock. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Most people chose to shock themselves. Yeah.

[D]

Just to feel something.

[B]

Well, there's also. There's a challenge, I think. I don't know if it's a game or a big challenge that's, like, known where there's, like, this sound. Dead room that if you. You can win money if you can stay in it.

[A]

45 minutes is the record.

[B]

Is that what it is?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I know. It's like a cr. It's like. That sounds so. Like.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Really?

[D]

Some underground bunker? That's like super sound.

[B]

Yeah, it's completely sound dead.

[A]

And.

[B]

Yeah, but that's different.

[A]

That's different that people go mad because.

[D]

Mental.

[A]

Yeah. There's no sound at all. And you can hear your heartbeat.

[B]

And I mean, part of it's too being super, super alone, too. You know what I'm saying? So I'm sure that exacerbates, but I think I remember seeing that. I don't know what Is there a name for it? Have you guys seen it?

[A]

Yeah, you can put. Doug, you could put the most soundproof room in the world, and then it'll pull it up for you. But, yeah, boredom is interesting. So. So Arthur Brooks was talking about this. Obviously, he's an expert on. On, you know, neurobiology and human behavior. And he says, you know, when you're bored, this is when you ponder the big questions. This is when you think about yourself and your family and things above yourself. And he says this is actually very important.

[D]

Connect a lot of dots.

[A]

It's very important. And for the first time in human history, we've effectively eliminated all boredom. All boredom, 100%. I mean, I'll think back to when I was a kid. That's it right there, Doug. The Guinness Book of World Record for the quietest place on Earth. That's so wild. So I remember when I was a kid, when you went to the bathroom, there was nothing to do in there but go to the bathroom to the point where you would make out designs on the tiles. If there was a shampoo bottle, that's.

[D]

Where you see a lot of carved, like, horrible things.

[B]

There's a whole book section at Barnes and Noble dedicated to bathroom books because there was nothing.

[A]

Bathroom reader. Yeah, I know.

[B]

There's nothing to do but read a book or a magazine in there.

[A]

Yeah. So. But we've eliminated boredom where we don't stand in line and be bored. We don't wait at stop signs and be bored. We don't do anything and be bored anymore. And so we've eliminated that necessary period where we can ponder things. And the downstream effects of that are more stress, less feelings of purpose and fulfillment, and less reflection. So I was thinking about these studies.

[D]

Right, Because I'm, like, sourcing your thoughts.

[A]

Yeah, I was thinking about this because I'm like, yeah, but it really is. It's so hard to sit and be bored. We'd rather shock ourselves. And then it occurred to me there is a way to do this and have it be less painful. Move. Move. You can walk and think. You could exercise and think. Occupying your body allows you to, especially if it's something repetitive that doesn't require a lot of thought, like a walk. Some of the best thinking you'll ever have will be doing that versus just sitting there and just thinking. In fact, I think for people who are depressed or anxious, sometimes sitting and thinking can make things worse. But going for a walk and thinking, I think, is totally different.

[B]

So I have something for you. Since you went this Direction. I just shared it this morning. It was a Tony Robbins thing. So I'm going to play it so we can hear. And then another thing to also consider is actually reframing how you're thinking. So this is what that is.

[A]

There's only one reason you're suffering. You're focused on yourself. Self focus creates suffering because the nature of the human mind is to find what's wrong. And we're all selfish at times, but if you stay selfish, you suffer. The fastest way out of suffering is appreciation. There is no better way. You cannot suffer and appreciate. You cannot be grateful and suffer simultaneously. And the only way you can appreciate is get outside yourself and notice the grace of your life in some way. Listen to me. Now you want a different life right now. Want to transform your joy right now. Trade your expectations for appreciation and you have a whole new new life. There's only one. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's biblical truth too. Super powerful. Yeah. Being other focused. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's very true. Yeah. One of the hallmarks of depression of is. Is self rumination. And we oftentimes try to think our way out of those things and it just makes things a lot worse.

[B]

So, yeah, I think the combination of what you're saying in that. Right. So reframing it, not focusing, self getting and moving, like recipe for solving that, you know?

[A]

Totally. Hey, speaking of solving things, I have another person that I know that used peptides for healing after surgery. My buddy had shoulder surgery. Oh yeah? Yep. Used BPC and thymus and beta. And he was skeptical. He's not in the fitness space or anything like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we talked about it, got him set up. He came back to me and he goes, he goes, my surgeon and my physical therapist are shocked. He's like, I'm as good as I should be in twice. Like, in other words, it took half the time for me to heal that they thought. And they're all telling me to be careful because they can't believe how well I can move just for museums. Peptides.

[B]

It's crazy. My sister is going through this, right? So I got her the BPC157 in KPV capsules. Capsules, yes. And you know, everything. She's been battling with inflammation and gut issues and she this. My poor sister, she's been through this so many times that she like, she knows every single thing that will inflame it. She knows what she needs to do during this time.

[A]

Like this has been years and Years.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So she's really, she's really got it down. And she had asked, when we had talked about this a while back, she'd asked me to, to get her this so she could try it out. And she's been taking it for five days. And she's coming to me going like, I've never felt this good.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And already testing some of the foods that she knows that would kind of like start to like cause inflammation again. And she's like, I've never had anything that's impacted it this, this quick from after what she just went through. And so she's trying that. She's. She says that's been amazing for her. This was literally just. Is happening right now. My sister's at my house right now and has been all week and she's been taking it. Today was the, the fifth day that she's taking it. She was telling me that last night.

[A]

Of all the peptides, I've tried them all. Of all the peptides and I have that I've used the combination of BPC and thymus and beta is by far the best. By far the best. Just overall recovery. Reduced inflammation. Well, being skin health. Hair, you know, hair health. Like, it's like that. Is that right there.

[B]

It has the most research, right?

[A]

I mean, it's got a lot of research, but they're just so regenerative on the body. They upregulate receptors for growth hormone. So there's probably a muscle building effect somewhere. But I like the. Just, just the way it makes my body feel. Just an incredible combination.

[B]

I mean, you have me sold right now on the thymus and alpha, right?

[A]

Oh, if you're gonna get sick.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That is wild.

[B]

I know. I'm again, I did it the other day when people say, hi, Katrina sick for four days and didn't catch anything. I didn't catch nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's now become. It's like when I. When I'm on top of it right away I take that stack of stuff, you know, thymus and alpha being part of that and I'm on it before I get sick. It. I don't know what the percentage of what it reduces, but the fact that I. There's already been a handful of times where I haven't got sick is mind blowing to me because I always used to get sick and. Or the few times I have still got sick when I did the sac. It's like super mild.

[A]

You guys know the story of, of thymus and alpha during COVID right? You guys know what Happened with that.

[B]

No, pull it.

[A]

There were, if it works, get rid of it. There were doctors on the front lines in, in many places that were using thymosin alpha. So a thymus and out. So this, there's two thymosin peptides, Thymus and beta is the one that I talked about. That's for like healing, you know, tissues, stuff like that. Thymus and alpha is for the immune system. And what it does is it, it helps mature white blood cells and basically boosts your defense system against infection, viral infection. So when Covid was a thing and people were trying to figure out what do we do? There were some forward thinking doctors because thymus and alpha peptides been around for a long time. It's not like this new thing we've known about for a long time. And they were using it and reporting that their patients were recovering very quickly. Those reports were coming out. The government put a stop and stopped all production of all thymus. You couldn't get it during that period of time. You can get it now, but during that period of time, for whatever reason, they stopped it completely and you just couldn't.

[B]

Didn't that happen with like NAD and.

[A]

Some other things too that happened with. What's it called? Nac.

[B]

Oh, nac.

[A]

Nac, which has been a supplement forever. They, they Amazon wasn't able to sell it. Obviously they told him you couldn't sell. Such a weird time they were pulling things like that. You could buy it again by the way. Nac. You could buy it. Suddenly you can buy it, you know, wherever. But anyway. But yeah, for people who are interested, mphormones.com is those are the partners that we have, you know, that do all that.

[B]

You guys, what do you guys think so far? This is first time we've ever done something like this before. This, the Muscle Mommy movement. This whole group that we started for women. Yeah, it's pretty cool, huh?

[A]

So this is the first. What we did is we created this group for. It's called Muscle Mommy for just for women who want to build muscle. And you go in there, there's weekly coaching calls with our trainers. It's this great forum that's interactive specifically for this group. And for the first seven days the three of us were on every day talking to them. Yeah, and I don't know, I mean it's a, it's a large commitment for us because at 5pm every night we were doing it. Yeah, but you know, I miss training people sometimes it makes me feel like I'm training people again.

[D]

Yeah, it does yeah, it's good to connect and kind of hear it too. It's kind of funny, when we were off, you know, some of our trainers were like telling us like they're a little more comfortable to kind of bring up topics and things. I think that's what's rad about this group too, is they feel a little more emboldened to, you know, bring up some things, you know, specifically female related.

[B]

Oh, I think that's a big part. We've had forums and groups forever, but we've always kind of just mixed everybody together. And I've gotten a lot of feedback of how many ladies appreciate that we've created a private community just for them. And I. And you can see all kinds of connections and bonds. And I have to tell you, I mean, shout out to her, Mosi and whoever else owns that with him. But the school, the school app is the school app. Yeah. If the audience doesn't know this. We always, we had a really hard time years ago deciding whether we were going to do an app away from Facebook. And we even, we even launched something years ago, long time ago. And it was just so difficult to get people to adopt something else. And so we've always stayed on Facebook because how user friendly it is and that's where most people are. But to see how well this app is working and how user friendly it is because it's like social media built into like this really robust educational app. So everything that we've recorded, so Sal talked about us being on there, that's still there. So as you come, let's say you just are the first time hearing about today. You go to the muscle, my movement, you can watch all those videos that get caught up and there's all kinds of great tutorials and videos and education tools.

[A]

So we have our trainers and then.

[B]

On top of that, and then on top of that too, we're now getting some of our doctor friends like Gabriel Lyon to go in there. Lauren. Dr. Lauren to get in there. So we have all these, these incredible tools and then you also have programming. So if you're wondering what there's programming in there or if you're already following another program, you still can follow that and still get the help and guidance in there. So it's just become a really cool community and really exciting to see how well it's been received, you know, by everybody.

[A]

It's awesome, right? Speaking of women, this cool study came out of Japan where they were studying if the, the body odor of women when they were ovulating changed the Behaviors or the mental state of men?

[D]

Of men.

[A]

Yes. What do you guys think happened?

[D]

Well, because they did this study before, right, with men and their smells. Like how women could pick up on. Yeah, like if they're attracted.

[B]

Are we too dumb to pick anything up?

[A]

Yes. No.

[D]

Oh, I'm sure just subconsciously we were drawn to it.

[A]

No, dude. So they would have. They would have these women sweat, and then they would, you know, armpit sweat. They take the armpit sweat. They'd have the men smell it. Then they'd have those same women during ovulation, sweat, and then have the men smell it. And there was a. There was a difference. So ovulation, of course, when they're most fertile. And it's. It's like funny, this animal part of us. And. And. And the man had greater senses of being gross animals. They felt more relaxed with the smell.

[B]

Okay, so relax.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

Me. Run through this for me on what this looks like for a study. So we're in this group. I smell one thing.

[D]

We huffing.

[B]

And you go, tell me how you feel. And I go, well, I feel happy. Or that's how. Is that how we're reporting?

[A]

How do you feel? Yeah. What is it? Do you like the smell? Do you not like this? I'm guessing, you know, how do you feel? And they're comparing. You know, they're comparing and they found that when women ovulate, the smell, the pheromones they produce are, you know, attractive to men.

[B]

What was. What were ours? If they did the reverse. You said the girls did the reverse.

[A]

Women can smell if a man has more testosterone.

[B]

Right?

[A]

More testosterone. And if they're more. If they're compatible.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So women would smell T shirts.

[D]

Their nose is more sophisticated.

[A]

They would smell T shirts that men wore while working out. Yeah. And then they would pick out men that they thought were attractive. And the ones that they thought were attractive tends to line up with the smell that they liked.

[B]

So it's so interesting because. Yeah, I'm sure your wives does the same thing too. Like, Katrina loves to wear a shirt that I wore all day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if I have a shirt that I was wearing today and I come home underwear, and she'll.

[A]

Too far.

[B]

Too far, bro. That's not.

[D]

Shouldn't have shared that.

[A]

Your brief.

[B]

And sometimes I wear hers. You know, it's just totally normal at my house.

[A]

That's why. That's why she wore them. You took all my underwear, Justin.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Speak. Hey, speaking of our wives, we. So we. We did a. We did A family workout this weekend inside here. And I don't know, you see, we take, we bring Max, we put the Legos up front and everything. That okay? And Katrina's walking over to him. I got, I'm headphones, I'm doing my own workout. And she, she walks over to Max. She goes, I love to watch your daddy work out. Do you love to watch him work out? And he's like, no. Why? She's like, because look how focused he is. He's so focused when he, when he works out. And then he's looking over. I. This is me being told later on. I don't see any of this going on. Katrina told me after we worked out. And then he's like watching her or watching me, and he goes, mommy, you should see me at school. He'd be really impressed.

[A]

Yeah, dude, it was so funny.

[D]

You're impressed with that?

[A]

That's cute. We had a bad moment yesterday. We were driving somewhere and My son, my 4 year old, almost 5, he's complaining, I feel anxiety. I don't want to sit here. I don't feel good. And we're like, you're fine. Breathe deep, slow. You're totally fine. Totally ignoring the poor kid. And we're driving. He just throws up. He's obviously sick. And I'm just like, Both Jessica and I are like, wow, dude. This poor kid was trying to tell us and we were just telling him, like, chill out. When he was sick this whole time. Oh, I felt so bad. We took him home and just I, you know, you know when you kid throws up, like, if you're a parent, your kid's gonna throw up in the car at some point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just what happens? So you take out the car seat and I looked at it and I'm just like, I'm buying a new car seat, bro. I'm not even trying to.

[D]

That's not gonna happen.

[A]

I'm dumping it. I'm not gonna even try.

[B]

Max grows up a lot in the car. He gets car sick a lot. He gets car sick. Pretty calm, pretty common. And so that's happened. I remember the first time it happened to me when he was real, real little and he just. I mean, he blew chunks all over. And in the car seat, those car seats, like, I don't know what yours looks like, but mine is like, it was so difficult just to take it apart looking back, if, you know, I was trying because it was expensive. So I was like, man, I gotta save this. But, like, looking back, I don't know how many hours I Spent on trying to clean it.

[A]

You're.

[B]

I'm like, I would have. I would have bought another one.

[D]

Hand all the way through those, like the back of the se.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I always end up, like, pinching.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No.

[D]

Arm like.

[A]

No.

[D]

I hate those things.

[A]

Under the car seat, I have this, like, car protector. Car seat.

[B]

Oh, good. You have one of those always. Oh, that's always.

[A]

Yeah, because, you know, they have blowouts when they're little babies and stuff like that. So now you could just toss that too. But then we get home and then my. My two year old, she sees him get sick, and I think she was a little, you know, whatever. And then we're taking care of him, and then she's like, mama. My wife's like, yeah, honey. She goes, if I get sick, will you love me too? Like, oh, she was jealous that she would get me.

[B]

I was asking. That's funny. We were talking about this too. Like, we were talking. We were in the hot tub and we're talking about Max, and I was giving him a hard time. Like, hey, how come. How come when you don't feel good, how come you don't. You don't want. You don't want Daddy. And he looks at me and goes, because you can't take care of me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That'S right.

[A]

Okay, fair enough. You know where I've been taking them? I always forget. This place is so close. It's such a great place to take your kids.

[B]

Oh, Happy Hollow.

[A]

Happy Hollow. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, you told me you were.

[A]

I always forget, like, it's just right there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, it's such a great place. It's got a zoo there. Yeah, there's things to play on. We had a total blast there.

[B]

That's one. Have you. Have you gone down to Gilroy Gardens yet with them?

[A]

No. Thank you for reminding.

[B]

Yes, you go there. That's the other between the two. I don't know which one I like more, but I think they're both hidden gems, especially Gilroy Gardens. You would expect for a theme park that it would be one, packed all the time. Totally not. And two, dirty. And it's not. It's so clean. Like, I'm so.

[A]

It's never busy.

[B]

I'm so impressed. And then the third place I would tell you to go to is to go, which is a little bit of a drive, but worth it, to the. The Monterey Zoo, because a lot of people don't even know that zoo exists over there. And so very private, clean, small, and it feels like you have it to yourself when you go with your kid?

[A]

Well, when we. We went twice. So I went to.

[D]

If you want to go to the ghetto, go to Great America.

[A]

Yeah. That's what you do. That place getting. It's gangster.

[D]

It's actually a lot cleaner than it was the last time I was there. Like of a lot of the tagging.

[A]

And the riff raff.

[D]

Riff raff and all that. And there was like nobody there cuz it's like later in the season.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So we were just like hit and ride after. Really Ride. Yeah.

[B]

Oh that's bro. Those Ray Bans were made for that.

[D]

I could not believe the quality.

[B]

And like so good.

[D]

Clear. Like it. No.

[B]

Did you see his videos?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, maybe Doug can pull up his. His Instagram. It's probably still up there from yesterday.

[A]

You were, you were with your two teenage boys. So when you go to we'll just a theme park with. Oh, okay. It was just Everett.

[D]

Yeah, just Everett.

[A]

Yeah. You go with a teenage boy, you're gonna go on rides.

[D]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Hard.

[D]

No, like every. I mean what else are you gonna do? I'm not gonna sit there and just chat.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean we were kind of doing that in line anyways and it was, it was fun like just hanging with him. But it's just like funny because I haven't been on an actual legit roller coaster because we go to like the boardwalk every now and then and whatnot. But they don't have because they, they weren't. They were always a little too scared. It was much. And so, you know, last time we went to Great America like Everett didn't want to go on any of the rides or nothing. And now we're like hitting all these rides and I'm like, I'm the one that's like ah. Like I felt like I was going to throw up on a. A few of them because it's just the, the forces hit you a little bit different, you know?

[A]

Do they. Do they still have the demon? Does that still exist?

[D]

That's what the first ride we went on. Yeah.

[A]

That's still a classic.

[D]

It is, it's classic, but it's. It's pretty chill actually. The demon isn't. Dude, you know what? The craziest one, which I didn't even expect. It was one of those kind of looks like the grizzly, but it's not. It's all like wooden is like gold striker because it throws you around. There's no loops, there's no corkscrews. There's nothing like that. It just, it feels like you got shot out of a cannon and it's just like violently thrashing you through the whole ride. Like, for an entire minute you're just, ah. Like getting just thrown.

[A]

Yeah. How safe are. I have this debate with my wife all the time because she's like, we're never gonna put the kids on roller coasters. I'm like, why? Come on.

[D]

Depriving them of joy.

[A]

Yeah. She's like, they're dangerous.

[B]

I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure them driving in your car is more dangerous.

[A]

Why would you add more?

[B]

Well, I'm just. I'm not adding more. I'm trying to take away from, like. I'm pretty sure the safety in there is any car. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no.

[A]

What do you do?

[B]

No, no. I mean, dude, it's like the same logic as the airplane thing.

[A]

I'm.

[D]

I'm pretty convinced the safety issues are because of dumb people. Because, like, there's signs everywhere. It's like, don't stick your arms out. Don't stand up. Don't you know this? People do that stuff.

[A]

How. How safe. Doug, do you have stats there for roller coasters?

[B]

Oh, bro, they. You know how. You know how safe they have to be or else they get shut down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can't.

[A]

You know which ones are not.

[B]

You can't lose a person every 500 people or something like that. They're like, oh, yeah, that's up to the 4%.

[D]

Start it over again.

[A]

20.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Nobody's heads fell off.

[B]

Once a year they get together. Okay, listen, our goal is to keep it under 19.

[A]

What does that say there?

[D]

Maybe tomorrow we'll do better.

[A]

Exceptionally safe.

[B]

Exceptionally.

[A]

With the chance of serious injury being statistically very low. Often cited as less.

[B]

1 in 15 million rise.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

And people get hurt.

[D]

They have like, some surgery or something.

[B]

Just walking out of your house to get in your car.

[A]

That's what I thought. Yeah. Now, the ones that I will agree with her on are carnivals. Carnivals. That's different, bro. They pop those up.

[B]

Yeah. You see the guy that runs them?

[A]

Yeah. Like, and that.

[B]

I don't think it's the ride. I think it's the operator.

[D]

He's got like, meth teeth.

[A]

Oops, wrong button. Yeah.

[D]

I'm not trusting that. So.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. So maybe I'll go then. I haven't. I haven't been to Great America.

[B]

I. I want. I want Matt. Max. It's fun, dude. Max. Max is like, yeah, no, no, dad, he's still young. No, I just got him to jump off my shoulders in the pool. That was like, a huge milestone.

[D]

Sweet.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

See it?

[A]

How old were you guys? The first levels, dude, you went on a real roller coaster?

[B]

Well, I did Santa Cruz when I was probably 7. Ish. 7 or 8.

[A]

When the first time you went on a real roller coaster, like loop to loop? Yeah.

[B]

Oh, well, you can't even do that till you're 48 inches.

[A]

So how tall is 48 inches?

[B]

That's four feet.

[A]

That's four feet tall. Yeah.

[B]

That's a decent height.

[A]

So how old do you have to be?

[B]

Probably like eight or nine.

[A]

Okay. So is that how old you were when you first risk?

[B]

Probably. Yeah. I remember going to Great America and being too short and waiting to get tall enough.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So I remember that.

[A]

I waited longer than that. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah. No, I. So my. My family. When I didn't live here, I had family, you know, Stephanie and all that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We. We used to get season passes every year. And so even when I was a really little kid, and I remember I was, like, one of the younger ones, and so we were waiting for me to get to height so I could go do all the. Because my. My. My girl cousins were all one to three years older than me and also obviously sprouted earlier. So I was like the young little cousin that was waiting to grow. So as soon as I was tall enough to.

[A]

To ride them all, I wrote them all. How old were you, Justin? First time?

[D]

Yeah, I was really young.

[A]

You too? Yeah. I was the only chicken. I was like 15, 14, 15, I think. I mean, I wanted.

[B]

Not much, bro. What were we just trying to get.

[A]

Him to do the other day?

[B]

He's like, not river. We were gonna do rafting.

[A]

Oh, yeah. River.

[D]

I feel like Florida. There's, like, some water park where it has, like. Like the world's tallest water slide. And there's, like, three levels of it. There's one down, and I snuck my way up because I was too young, and my brother kind of, like, pushed me in front, and then I. I, like, hung down. So you basically have to lay down your back and your legs, like, already, like, vertical.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

And I just went for it. It was like the worst enema I've ever had. You go down and then it's all water.

[B]

Those are, in my opinion, more scary because you're, like, free. You know what I'm saying? Like, so there's a little bit more. Like, when I get in a roller coaster, I mean, it's like. Do you know that I Mean, you're, like, locked in. The thing's hooked around the rails. I feel pretty safe.

[A]

You ever seen the prank where people get in a roller coaster and they'll go with someone that's kind of scared, and then they'll have, like, a loose bolt with them, and they'll be like, wait, this just came off the chair right before it takes off. Why did I think of that? So you gotta hold it in your pocket. That's horrible. Prayer. Right as you take it off, be like, oh, this fell off your chair.

[B]

Is this important? That is horrible.

[A]

You know what you just said, Justin, do you know that that's. That there's been some major, like, some serious injuries of people who've done, like, high diving or whatever where. It's. The enema thing.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Where it's like blown out there. Yeah. Yeah. Dude. You can actually look that up. That can actually become.

[B]

From high diving into the water, like, jumping.

[D]

I mean, it was uncomfortable.

[A]

Didn't. From a high. From a high place. And then it. Yeah.

[B]

What distance do you have to be up before it or to where it feels like concrete? They said.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

It's because at one point you're. If you go from a certain height, you're.

[A]

Yeah, you're good.

[B]

Yeah. I believe, like, jumping from, like, the Gold Gate Bridge, that's why the people die, because it's like concrete hitting it like that. I wonder what the. What the height is on it. Because there's some. There's some people that high dive from pretty.

[A]

You got to have technique, though. You got to know how to really put yourself. Yes. Yeah. Otherwise it's gonna be like a. You know.

[B]

And then how far does that. How far up? Does technique work like that? Does it become irrelevant when you're. I don't know, jumping?

[A]

I just do what I do and don't do it. Just walk in.

[D]

It's like those old. You ever see those carnival acts where the guy is like. It's almost like three, four stories high.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And it's like a little ledge.

[D]

He jumps into, like a little.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Tiny tub of water.

[A]

There's no single height at which water becomes guaranteed to kill you. So impact velocity, velocity, entry posture, and body stiffness. Doesn't say.

[C]

250Ft, though, is considered highly lethal.

[A]

Okay, that's hot.

[B]

That's really.

[A]

That's very high.

[B]

That's really high. 250ft. I was just thinking, like, it was gonna be somewhere like 30 to 50 or something. Like something.

[A]

What's the deepest you guys have ever dived down underwater? Have you guys ever gone down below 10ft? Oh, yeah. There's no. With no. With no.

[B]

Like, you can go. There's some. Or at least they used to have, like, Olympic pools that had, like, 15. 15 foot.

[A]

Yeah. Bottom. Weird, huh?

[D]

That pressure gets me, dude.

[B]

Yeah. Your. Your ears do all of that.

[D]

I'm a terrible swimmer, dude.

[A]

You too? Yeah, me too.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It's just. It never. I just.

[A]

Too much muscle. That's what it is. Too much. Yeah. Adam floats. Yeah.

[D]

I feel like I'm dog paddling the whole time.

[A]

You know, Justin's also bottom heavy.

[B]

He's like a bobber.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's trying to swim down like this.

[A]

And just pulls him down. I had a discussion with a friend of mine about Brain FM the other day, and I was trying to explain to him how well it works, and he's like, how can sound? It was a great. I love when I have discussions with people where I. Where I get them. You know, we're having his talking. He's like, how can sounds induce, like, brain wave states? Like, does that really work? I'm like, talking about the data, this and that. And I said, look, sure. I said, do you listen to music that changes your mood? And then boom, Got him right away. He's like, oh, yeah. I'm like, that's a. That's a state of mind.

[D]

That was easy.

[B]

Or have you ever heard that. That 1980s alarm clock that we all hear and it makes your skin crawl right away? Doesn't, like, universally. Everybody has that feeling. Right. At least everybody, I think, grew up in the 80s. If you hear that alarm sound.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't care how. How.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I mean, I haven't heard one in forever. And then every once in a while, a movie or someone will. I'll hear that sound.

[A]

It's the same alarm clock, by the way. It's the wood look.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

You know, they use. Even in, like, horror movies, they use a lot of, like, babies screaming in the background, like, real faint. So it, like, gives you that, like, primal, visceral, like, tense.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Yeah. So for. For women. For women in particular, they've done studies on this. For women in particular, that it has an effect, especially postpartum. Postpartum women's brains are so wired to react to a baby crying. It's. You guys. Look at the data.

[B]

They have figured this out on the reverse, too. Those are all, like, kind of negative and make you feel angst. But they also have things that make you shop in the store longer.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So the music that's being played in your grocery store has been. Has been carefully curated. That's not even, like, random that you're hearing what you're hearing. It's like they have found music and stuff.

[D]

John Mayer.

[B]

Yeah. Dude. I don't know if that's true, but I know. I definitely know it's curated. And it's like they've figured out what.

[A]

Sounds child's laughter is supposed to be good. Unless you don't have kids, in which case it's terrifying. Anyway, but we were talking about Brain fm and I was explaining to. And then, of course, the closing point is, you know, I'm like, try it out for 30 days. See for yourself. Because you could do that. And so I can't wait to get his report back. Oh.

[B]

I mean, there. I don't think I've met anybody who I've turned that on to that.

[A]

Hasn't Everybody noticed it's 100. Yeah. I haven't had anybody yet try it and not come back to me and go, that's weird. Yeah, that works.

[B]

So it's just a matter if you're the type of person that you.

[A]

I mean, we've.

[B]

We've always. From the moment we've been introduced to that, if we're not using it with Max or ourselves, like, it's a pretty consistent app that we use in our house, for sure.

[A]

All right, Justin, we have. You have to bring up the shredded cheese. Bummer.

[D]

Oh, want me to bring that up?

[A]

Yeah, dude. Why is that?

[D]

Well, two weeks, Doug. The actual ingredients that. Because they have preservatives. Right. And this you kind of, like, expect there's some preservatives, but there was like some forever type chemicals in there that they snuck in there.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And I'm like, it's just cut up.

[A]

Cheese like, so it doesn't stick to each other, maybe.

[D]

Yes, exactly. It's like emulsifiers or whatever they call those. Yeah. Where they don't, like, melt into each other.

[A]

Think of that.

[D]

Yeah, me either. You know, because you just get a bag and you're like, oh, this is easier for. Buy tacos or whatever. And it's like, dude, so much better to just shred it. We buy shredded chips, PSA for everybody.

[A]

What does that say? Anti caking agent, like potato starch or powdered cellulose, and a natural mold inhibitor such as natamycin. Interesting. Mold inhibitors aren't bad, but if you're consuming it constantly, I'm sure that has an effect on your microbiome so explain.

[B]

To me what you're doing. I wasn't listening to Justin. What's he doing? He's like, I do that sometimes.

[D]

I do that to you all the time.

[A]

So this is the key for clumping. Yeah. So they put chemicals in there to keep it, you know, so that you could still spread it or whatever.

[B]

Oh, I thought he was saying there's something that you can add to it. Because I was like, mine never clumps up. Mine is always.

[A]

Yeah, cuz it's got all those chemicals.

[D]

No, this is the bags you'll buy because you know, you're like, oh, this is. Be a lot more convenient.

[A]

Did you guys eat Velveeta when you were a kid? You did? For sure. Oh, God.

[B]

Super.

[A]

Look at the ingredients in Velveeta.

[D]

Does it has to be just plastic, bro?

[B]

It is. We used to yelp, melt it down and make fondue. Have fondue out of it.

[A]

Just dip it. As a kid.

[B]

As a kid, though, I thought it was good. I mean, I, I was.

[D]

The guy ate like easy cheese and was spraying it.

[B]

What, what is. What is. I don't even think it's real or.

[A]

No, it's. Oh, it has got a base of skim milk, but then there's protein concentrate, canola oil, sodium phosphate, modified food starch, whey. There's more in there though. Yeah, look at that. Yeah, it's got all kinds. It's weird.

[B]

Is it high in protein because of the whey?

[A]

Look up the macros of Velveeta.

[B]

Watch. It's hella good.

[A]

We're gonna sell it. Yeah, it's got stabilizers and thickeners. There's coloring, preservatives.

[D]

Slap that on my steak.

[A]

That's a. That's some American cheese right there.

[B]

I mean, I. I only remember using it for fondue. I don't remember what else we used it for.

[C]

So 4 grams protein for 70 calories worth of cheese.

[A]

So 1 ounce? Sure.

[D]

Mac and cheese. They used to do that.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I mean, that's not bad. Salad. Six ounce. Six ounces of it. Is it 24 grams of protein?

[A]

Yeah. What do you. You. But it's plastic.

[B]

Well, I know, but I'm just saying, like, if you read a steak's worth, it would be, you know, it's half a steak, you know, a little. A little. A little less than a chicken breast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so it's.

[A]

I've actually never had Velveeta.

[B]

You've never had it?

[A]

Never.

[B]

Oh, you're not missing out on it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Weren't you speculating? It tastes like plastic. You've never had it before?

[A]

It looks like plastic. Yeah.

[D]

It was like all vegetables back in the day. They thought it was a good idea to put Velveeta on them.

[B]

On what?

[D]

Yeah, vegetable.

[B]

Oh. Oh, my parents. That's the other thing my mom used to. Okay. We used to have it as fondue or melted over broccoli. Same thing.

[D]

This is why I've. Yeah. Despised vegetables. Then I started to figure out, oh, you just need to, like, grill them.

[A]

When I was weird.

[B]

My mom was a really good cook, though. I know you've talked about your parents not being the best cook. My mom was a killer cook. But we did some weird. Like that. That was like. That was off brand.

[A]

My wife. My wife, she's gonna get mad. I don't know if she'll get mad if I share this, but she. She had the worst diet growing up. She didn't drink water, I think, until she was like, oh, you've seen this before. What? I'm not exaggerating. She didn't drink water. In fact. In fact, I'm not making this up. She told me a story the other day.

[B]

She's like, sorry, honey, who's the Korean guy who hasn't even taken a poop? She's like that. She's never taken a poop.

[A]

No. No. She never. King Jung. Kim Jong.

[B]

I wasn't even trying.

[A]

That's a myth, though. Of course he poops. She told me a story. She said she slept over a friend's house when she was, like, 13 or 14. Had water for the first time. All they had was water. She. She couldn't drink it. So she went in the fridge and got Otter Pops and melted them and put them in a glass and drank that. Because she never drank water. All she drank was soda. Wouldn't she be dead? No. Apparently only Brondo. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about.

[B]

So she could. She couldn't.

[A]

Soda. That's all they had was soda.

[D]

Is it.

[A]

There's enough water in soda for her to live? Oh, yeah. It's mostly water. Yeah. You won't die. You'll get obese. And maybe that's some other stuff, but only soda. And when she was a kid, she's like, oh, yeah. Sometimes for dinner, we'd have, you know, like, our dinner would be chili cheese fries that we would make.

[B]

She's so lucky. Here.

[D]

That must keep it. Hard to break that habit. Dude, how'd she do with water now? Like, is it still, like, has to add something.

[A]

Thank God we, we have partners like Element, because that's what she puts even to this day. Water by itself. Because she's. Her brain is wired to have flavor.

[B]

Because I feel like just some good purified water. Some of the, like, me too. I crave it sometimes. I crave that.

[A]

I don't know. That's interesting.

[D]

Really cold water.

[B]

But I mean, I've had clients. I've had clients. So have I. Yeah. That have like.

[A]

I forgot that she was like that, though. She brought it up to me the other day and I'm like, no, you had water. She's like, no, I had none.

[B]

Did she say when she like started to discipline herself to include it?

[A]

When she got into fitness kick. She's super. You know, she's like this really growth minded person. Right. So when she wanted to start to get in shape, she started to. She followed a lot of the wrong stuff, but it was right enough to where it made a difference because it was so different what she was doing before. Yeah. So she did like Lean Cuisine meals and then she started drinking water for the first time. And then she would make like she. She'd juice greens.

[B]

I guess. I guess I was pretty, pretty guilty of that as a kid growing up too. Although the one probably like, because I'm trying to think, like, when did I have water from the hose probably.

[A]

I do remember that.

[B]

I remember playing. Right.

[A]

In sports.

[B]

I remember having water when I played sports.

[A]

Hose water was delicious. I remember hose water got warm.

[B]

But I don't ever, ever remember going to the sink and filling up a glass of water, like ever as a kid. Ever. I don't remember ever doing that. But I do remember drinking out of the hose. And I do remember having like a water bottle for sports. That's the time I drink.

[A]

We didn't drink sodas.

[D]

We had a PVC pipe. Literally, we were like cattle.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

They sprayed.

[A]

They poked holes in it. Yeah. We're just your parents.

[D]

No, this is when I.

[A]

At home.

[B]

Imagine at your house in the backyard.

[A]

Mom, I'm thirsty.

[B]

Turn on the hose. Turn the trough on. Piss while you're outside. Too tired of cleaning up your bathroom.

[D]

Hide it with some hay.

[B]

Not an animal. That was common in football. Our, our football team in high school had the same thing too. They just, they just wheeled it out. It was like some homemade. Some homemade pvc.

[A]

Speaking of which, was your high school. Did it have at least legit urinals or have the stupid big one where everybody look at each other? Where they have to.

[D]

Oh my God. At least in my high school. But every time I went to a sports game, like that was so the thing back then. Thank God they got rid of that. Like I, I was scarred.

[A]

Can we just talk about how traumatizing that is for a child?

[B]

For sure some pedo guy wasn't involved in creating. Why, why was that so tricky here?

[A]

But no, no, this is what it was. Listen, ladies don't even understand. They don't know.

[D]

This entire wall was just one long.

[A]

And young guys, I had, I've had one, I had one.

[B]

Sports that were circular at each other. You and I would be, I remember those half the distance from each other right here. And we would be not looking at each other, like no way. Avoiding it or. You just have to not, not look where you're peeing.

[D]

You just say, huh.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, look, that's what you're working with. It's not cool when you're a grown man. But when I was, you know, 10 and I went to a sporting event for the first time and I see a grown man pull out his, you know, waiting right in front of me, traumatized.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get you scarred.

[A]

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[C]

Our first caller is Austin from California.

[A]

What's up man?

[B]

How you doing, Austin?

[E]

What up, Sal? Adam, Justin, huge fan of the show. You guys are awesome. It's an honor to be on here. Thank you so much for everything you guys do.

[A]

You got it, man. How can we help you?

[E]

All right, so I'll go ahead and just read off the. The question that I have sent in. Hey, mind pump crew. I'm 35 years old, in decent shape and I work a physical hands on job. My goal is to get absolutely jacked. Think Boulder shoulders, six pack abs, big quads. I was running a six day push pull leg split and saw good results but just developed tendonitis in both arms, had to scale back and now I'm following map Santa Bolic and just wondering if I can get shredded and jacked off this program alone given my goals and recovery. Needs, or is there a better program or hybrid approach you'd recommend for someone in my situation who wants aesthetics, performance, and longevity? Thanks for everything. I'm a huge fan of the show.

[A]

Yeah, no, great question.

[B]

Tell me a little bit about the. The job. Physical job.

[E]

So I do a paintless dent removal. I take dents and door dings out of cars. No paint, no Bondo. So I go behind metal, and I'm just kind of pop cranking all day, you know, both arms. So I think just a mix between that and then doing, you know, each muscle group twice a week just kind of caused me to kind of burn myself out and ended up getting tendonitis, literally both arms at the same time. And so I just completely worked on more recovery and kind of lost a lot of size. And, man, that kind of sends you through a little mind to. To say the least. And now I kind of just hop back on Maps Anabolic to see, you know, try to get some size back and just didn't know if that's the best program to be on or. Yeah, you know what, what you guys would recommend.

[A]

How long you been lifting for? Consistently.

[E]

Consistently. Two years. Yeah. Right after my son was born, kind of saw myself as, you know, I didn't want to be that soft, pudgy dad. I wanted to be the fit dad that him and all his buddies looked up to. So I started working out, and then I actually started with Maps 15, started seeing decent results. So then I hopped into Maps Anabolic, saw better results, finished that one. Then I just jumped into a push, pull leg routine and then ended up. Yeah, I ended up tearing my quad and then getting tendonitis in both arms.

[A]

Yeah. Wow.

[B]

So you're following Maps programs, getting great results, then jump to something else.

[A]

We just want to make sure.

[E]

Yeah, man, I know.

[A]

All right, so here's. Look, you're only two years into this. The best thing you could do to get jacked right now is to just focus on trying to get stronger. Okay. So if you're getting stronger in some of the core lifts, doesn't have to be every lift. In fact, chasing every lift is a bad idea. But in the core lifts, your presses, your pulls, your squats, if you're getting stronger, you're getting. You're building muscle. So that's probably for the next year or two. That's your focus. Maps Anabolic is a great program for that. That being said, after following Maps Anabolic, I definitely think you should interrupt your training with, like, a symmetry or performance or a performance, because Maps Anabolic is so focused on sagittal plane. Yeah, sagittal plane. And so we want some of those other movements so we don't develop. Develop issues. But Anabolic is perfect. Absolutely. If you're getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction. If you're not getting stronger, you're not moving in the right direction. And that'll be true for you for the next couple years at least.

[B]

I do think a three day a week program or maps 15 is probably in your is best for you, especially if you're having a hard time building and because you probably, if you're that active at work, you might have a hard time hitting the calories you need. You're young, you're fit, you're active. Sometimes one of the hardest parts is actually getting enough food to grow. So what does your diet look like? And are, is that something you struggle with is to hit enough calories?

[E]

Oh, that's something I'm. That's a whole other thing I'm struggling with right now. So I had blood work done right when my son was born because I was constantly tired and I went to like more of like a natural doctor because I didn't want to like go into the hospital and get prescribed something and went to a natural doctor. They said my A1C was out the roof, my triglycerides, all that. So she put me on like a 30 day or 60, 60 day carnivore diet and it like kind of leveled me out. But then I didn't realize that this doctor was like a huge advocate for carnivore. And so now she like just wants me to stay on it where I'm.

[B]

Like, I hate it.

[E]

I was like, if I'm looking at a ribeye steak, I'm like, oh, and I have to eat this. And so now I'm kind of just like, I don't even know what to do diet wise because I'm not really. I didn't mind doing like the carnivore for like 30 or 60 days, but so I don't want to be carnivore my whole life and.

[A]

No, yeah, here's what you could do. You could hit your protein targets and then throw some starches and some fruit in there and some fiber and using.

[B]

Things like rice, sweet potato, yams typically are your good choices. Go try. I mean, if the, if the carnivore made you feel a lot better, there's probably something you, you were eating that doesn't agree with you. Most likely things like breads, sugars, those types of starch. I would stay away from that.

[A]

Not.

[B]

And do use things like white rice, sweet potato, yams, but start to introduce those into fruit. Yeah. And fruit. Sorry, that's it.

[A]

Yeah. So eat your protein. Hit that first. Then eat your. Your carbs from those sources. That'll help with the gains.

[B]

Yeah, you're gonna need to, too. This is. And you've probably heard, or maybe not, I don't know how long you've been listening to Mind Pump, but we went through the. The Carnivore, or ketogenic diet early on in the podcast. And one of the things I talked about because we all kind of. Kind of had our. Our own challenges with it. I was in the height of trying to get big and jacked, and I couldn't eat enough calories. I just. That was the part that was so hard. It's like, just like you. I was like, I'm over the steak. I'm not hungry. I don't even want anymore. And trying to stuff down another steak when I'm already full was so difficult. So I found it really good for getting healthy or losing body fat, but I found it terrible for trying to gain. I couldn't. And my workouts, I didn't have good pumps. I wasn't. I didn't have good energy, like. Like. So I think it's a terrible program for a terrible way of eating to try and bulk or build.

[A]

You know, it's all. So what did you eat before you went on Carnivore? What did your diet look like?

[E]

I mean, it's pretty solid. I mean, we do. I mean, I was eating, like, kind of overnight oats every morning, like with protein, like, mixed in. And then my lunch would usually be like a turkey sandwich or like chicken and rice and veggie bowl. And then dinner was usually just like a protein salad and a sweet potato. So I thought I was doing good, and then I was told my insulin levels were high and my A1C was high. And now I just want to kind of get a second opinion because my A1C went from 6.4. Now it's at 5.6. And she's like, oh, you still need to stay on the carnivore. And I'm like, I don't really want to, though.

[A]

Interesting. That's very interesting. Did you do any gut health testing?

[E]

I didn't know.

[A]

Yeah, you might want to do that because you might be getting some immune responses from food that can contribute to that. And you could start with just fruit. Like, you could start with just Throwing some berries in there. People who are reactive to food tend to be okay with fruit more than the starches that we just said. So if you want to ease your way into it, that would be one way to do it. And then as far as the program is concerned, Maps Anabolic is perfect and Maps 15 would even be good. Here's how you should judge the workout programming for the next couple years. Am I getting stronger? If I'm getting stronger, it's working. If I'm not getting stronger, it's not working. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And usually the answer is not to do more. Sometimes it is, but oftentimes it's not to do more.

[B]

Definitely not. In your situation where you're struggling to hit calories and you already have a really active job, more is not going to serve you. In this situation, the right dose is going to serve you. But we do need to solve the eat the food though, because you can have the best program in the world. If you're not giving yourself enough nutrients to grow, you just won't grow. It just won't happen. You'll, you'll, you'll stay, you'll stay fit, you'll stay strong, but you'll, you'll stay at a plateau because you're not able to feed your body enough calories to break through the plateau.

[D]

Were you still, did you still have the tendonitis when you were on Carnivore or did that kind of dissipate?

[E]

No, I mean, so it, I, I feel like it got worse when I was on Carnivore and then so now I've, I, I kind of quit eating Carnivore all the way. Like I'm, I'm just like sweet potatoes, white rice, that's about it. And like, I feel way more energy now with my workouts and the, the tendonitis. My right arm's completely gone. It's a little there in the left arm, but I can actually work out again. And so I just started back on Maps Anabolic yesterday. I was going to try to just run it Monday, Wednesdays, Fridays. And then I didn't know if it was best to do like a two day break in between. It's just kind of hard with my, my work schedule. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. It's kind of like a good day for me to work out. And then I didn't know if I should be doing like cardio like on off days or just sticking to trigger sessions. Because the thing I did like about Carnivore, man, my abs were popping out like crazy and like as soon as I started eating carbs again, it's like it disappeared. I'm like, man, should I go back to Carnivore? But then I think of like all the cons that came with the Carnivore and that, you know, outweigh the pros.

[A]

You know, Austin, abs are so overrated. Yeah, it's so funny.

[D]

Amen.

[A]

Nobody cares really. Except for you and maybe some other bros in the gym. Yeah, it's super, it's super overrated. Especially when you look at the data. Yeah. So I mean, and that's from a calorie deficit, so that can happen.

[B]

Yeah. No, and that's no carbs too. So you just put all the water out.

[A]

Now cardio wise, especially with your, your, your, your insulin and blood sugar stuff. I walk after your meal. That's gonna, that's gonna have a positive impact on those things. And then again, I would look at gut health testing. Sleep might be another one. If your sleep is poor, that has a bad, that has a really negative effect on that stuff. Is your sleep okay? No. Bad, Bad sleep? Yeah.

[E]

It's not good at all.

[A]

No. Okay, well, that'd be the first place I would look. Do you have any ideas why your sleep is. Do you have a lot of stimulants throughout the day or.

[E]

I mean, I don't have a lot of stimulants. It's just, I mean, I run a business with my dad, so it's usually about 14 hours, you know, a day of work. Then I get home and then I have a toddler, so I want to, you know, I get like about three hours with him a day. So I kind of just spend all my energy with him. And then it's about 10, 9, 30, 10 o' clock when he's going down. And then that's when I kind of shower. I sit in red light for like 30 minutes while I read. And then I'm really not going to bed till like around 11:30. And then I'm up at 5 to start working out.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta.

[D]

Schedule's crazy.

[B]

Maps 15 is becoming more appropriate.

[A]

That's the program for you.

[B]

Yeah, you got, you got a lot going on, dude.

[D]

Even if you do the Mass 15 performance, I think that would be ideal.

[B]

Yeah, actually, let's send him that. That's a good call because he's already done the master team.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't have maps 15 performance, do you?

[E]

No, no, I just have the, just maps 15.

[A]

I don't think red light therapy before bed is a good idea for you okay? Yeah. That might be. That might be messing up a little bit. Yep. That mean that might, might be messing up your sleep a little bit. Really? Yeah, yeah. And try to go to bed earlier if you can or wake up up later if you can, one of the two. Because that has a profound impact on, on fasting glucose, insulin, insulin sensitivity, all that stuff. Especially if it's chronic. It has a real big impact.

[B]

I mean, the good news about this conversation is it's. To me, it's very obvious why you're not seeing the results you want. I mean, you're obviously over, over training, overworked, not enough nutrition, not good sleep. That combination, it will, will keep anybody at a plateau for anybody, buddy. So it's like sleep, sleep and getting enough calories are number one and number two and then number three, especially right now, reducing the volume of training like in a mass 15 is a better choice than actually doing it stronger. Yeah, that'll, that'll be. That'll serve you way more. So that's kind of the. I would. Those are the three main things I would tell you. Go focus on and we should see a difference supplement wise.

[A]

Number one, you might want to look at ashwagandha too for, for someone like yourself as.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, I've never, I mean I've. Protein and creatine's about the only thing I'm, you know, been taking. I never really looked into.

[B]

Also look into potentially magnesium at night too. If he's having trouble sleeping, stuff like that. That's off. I would check that too.

[A]

Those would be two places to look supplement wise.

[B]

But we got to get better sleep, bro. That's. I mean, we have to get better sleep and then we got to be able to get enough calories. Those two things are huge.

[E]

Yeah, no, my wife was telling me the same thing. And then we like, in the mix of all that, this last two, like two months, we've been kind of to like buy another house and like, so it's just been like kind of like emotional roller coaster with that.

[B]

And then. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah. I was like, okay. Sleep needs to start being number one priority because I'm just like waking up tired every day and like going to bed exhausted.

[A]

And you know, think of it this way too, Austin. I mean, you're in a season of your life. Young man, kid, married, business. You're sacrificing yourself for your family, which is commendable. And what you want to do with your workouts is they should. Could improve the quality of your life, not take away from it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So if your workouts, if you're putting so much energy in your workouts that it's making you more tired to do the other stuff, it's not the right kind of workout for you.

[B]

Or you're so sore and not recovering.

[D]

Because you're being strong and healthy, not getting jacked. And getting jacked is not on the cards right now.

[A]

Yeah. Like pushing your body might not be a good idea.

[B]

And the irony of that, by the way, though, is focusing that way will probably give you better, will give you more aesthetic gains than focusing on trying to get aesthetic gains. So the irony is let go of the getting jack goal. Get healthy, get better sleep, eat better, focus on those things and. But what will happen is you'll get leaner and more ripped. So.

[A]

And by the way, this is what it would look like with Maps 15 or 15 performance. You know, it's a daily 15 minute or whatever, 20 minute workout. But when you're like, man, I'm fried. You skip a day and then just start again where you left off. It doesn't have to be a seven day program. It could be a 10 day or 13 day program. Yeah. So when you feel good, you do the workout. When you're like, ah, I need some more sleep, sleep. Then you don't, and that's it. And you'll probably progress that way.

[B]

Awesome.

[E]

Yeah, no, that sounds good. I mean, I feel like hearing it.

[B]

From you guys is Austin, did you happen to watch the YouTube series I did last year? I didn't know that's a good one for you to watch, considering where you're at and kind of the advice we're trying to give you because you, you hear me? So I came off of a, you know, I lay off. I hadn't lifted in a couple months and you get to watch me kind of reintroduce training and the level of volume and intensity that I approach it with, with is similar to how I would have you train right now. And so if you want some slash entertainment and help along the way, watch that. You'll get some, you'll get some good nuggets in that while you're going through this process. It's on the Mind Pump TV channel.

[E]

Oh, I'll definitely check that out. And then after like running maps 15 performance, do you think like, stay in.

[B]

That, stay in that, Stay in that? Yeah, stay in that for right now, for a while and then just reach back out to us. Are you in our, our private form or.

[A]

No? No.

[B]

I'll have Doug put you in that. Okay, so I'll hook you up with that. We'll send you matt 15 performance. Follow that. After you get through it, just check in with us and. And give us an update on how you're feeling and what's going on. And then most likely, we'll probably tell you to stay in it for a little bit longer, but there's a possibility you rebound and you're doing great, but just hit us up in the forum.

[E]

Awesome. I appreciate you guys. And then one. One other question. Like, this doctor that I'm dealing with, like, just to. She does prescribe me, like, my trt. So, like, I'm, like, scared to tell her, like, I don't want to do Carnivore anymore because I feel like she's going to, like, drop me, you know, because, like, when I had my legs, that was another thing. My teeth, my testosterone was like, at 180.

[B]

When I just go through MP hormones. You can go through us.

[A]

Yeah. But also. Also you could just tell her, say, look, this isn't working for me. I'd like to add some more stuff into my diet. Let's continue to monitor.

[B]

And she most likely will continue.

[A]

And if you could do some gut testing with me, that'd be great, because, you know, I wonder if I have some gut health issues. Use. I'd like to find out why my A1C is still where it's at. And so. And I really don't want to. This is just not sustainable for me. And if she's a good doctor, she'll say, okay, let's find another way.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Awesome.

[B]

Worst case. So you go through epi hormones. You can get that too. So you'll be right.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Well, I should have gone through there.

[B]

First, but all good. It is what it is. All good.

[A]

All right, man.

[B]

Yeah, we'll stay in touch. Austin.

[E]

I. I appreciate you guys again, so much. You guys rock. Show's awesome. Thanks again.

[A]

Appreciate it. Take it easy, brother. That's interesting that a doctor recommended. That's new Carnivore.

[D]

That's a new thing.

[B]

And then also a naturopath that gave you trt.

[A]

I don't think he said she's. She's into the natural health, but that doesn't necessarily.

[B]

Yeah, that doesn't add up, though.

[A]

I'm wondering if it's. I'm gonna guess. I'm totally gonna guess, but I'm wondering if it's a chiropractor who works with a doctor that prescribes. And so sometimes chiropractors go in this like, interesting direction where they do things that are just, just like this is. What do you. What do you.

[B]

Yeah, well, that's a weird. That's a weird combo for. To put you on an extreme carnivore diet, but then also put you on trt.

[A]

Yeah. The only time a doctor, in my opinion should recommend carnivore is when you, when you identify, like really extreme immune.

[D]

Extreme.

[A]

Yeah. Reactions to food. That really is the only real application otherwise the calorie deficit.

[D]

Sustainable, dude.

[A]

And it's not sustainable. It's. It's a. Listen, when you're coaching anybody on lifestyle for health, sustainability is at the top. Because I don't care how good something works. If the fall off rate is 90 plus percent. Waste of time. Yeah, it's a waste of your time. So sustainability is near the top. Unless there's emergency situations. I get that. But yeah, it's interesting. Yeah.

[C]

Our next caller is Juliana from New York.

[A]

Juliana, hello.

[D]

Hello.

[A]

How can we help you?

[D]

Hi guys, how you doing?

[F]

Thanks so much for having me on.

[A]

I appreciate it. You got it. How can we help you?

[F]

Uh, yeah, I'll just read my email here. So I stay concise. But. Hey, mind punt team. I've been listening to the podcast since inception and I've run through a ton of the programs with incredible results. Honestly, I'm a lifelong athlete and I've never truly experienced muscle gain and body transformation like this until I started MAPS programming. My question is how do I better engage my glutes when squatting? I've always struggled to feel my glutes activate during certain exercises, squatting being one example. I feel a lot of the lift coming from my quads. I also feel some discomfort and impingement in my hips when the rep count and the weight starts to climb. Just looking for some tips on how I can improve my performance there.

[B]

Athletes.

[A]

Athletes, yeah. So do they develop? Do your glutes develop or do you also feel like they're a lagging body part?

[F]

I get some development, but I don't think I'm maximizing as well as I can be.

[A]

Okay. And what sports were you in as an athlete? What did you compete in?

[F]

Primarily softball. I also played a little bit of basketball and soccer as well.

[A]

Okay. The hip impingement sometimes comes from when people squat. They're trying to stick their butt out or sit back to try to activate the glutes and they end up hip. They end up impinging the hips. So believe it or not, leading with the knees might actually help with that. So bending the knees first, rather than sticking the butt back first. So that's more of a function thing with the squat, but for someone like you, hip thrusts or magic. Yeah, hip thrusts are a magic exercise for people who've been active but working out, they squat. Like, I can only feel in my quads. Yeah.

[D]

Especially to build up volume there.

[A]

That's right. And so I would, you know, I would hip thrust before squatting for someone like you, and that's when you're going to see the development in your. In your glutes.

[F]

Would you. As far as programming, would you always work it in before the squat or take the squat out and replace it completely with the hip thrust?

[A]

Depends how often you squat. Squat. Yeah. So. So if you're gonna squat twice in a week, you could replace one of the workouts with hip thrusts. Then the second time you. You. You squat, you do a light set or two of hip thrusts. More as a primer. Yeah. Than anything.

[D]

Just to get connection.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Two, you can. I don't know how low you squat, but that also could play a factor with that. Just. And two, be careful of that to lower the weight a bit as you go down and progress, rest in. In that low depth. But holding and pausing and then, you know, really just trying to emphasize the tension and. And connection there. That will start to contribute towards feeling it more in your glutes.

[B]

I also love doing. Do you do conventional deadlifts or do you do sumo deadlifts?

[F]

I do kind of a mix of both, depending on what the program's running, but.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I love sumo deadlifts, too, just especially if you don't do them often. And then we're trying to get engagement. There's just the. The opening up that stance helps helps. Like, my female clients engage the glutes more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it kind of forces you to do that when you step. When you stand like that. I like that.

[A]

A good glute combo, like program or workout. For somebody who says what you're saying would look like this, it would be. You would start with hip thrusts. You'd have like three to five sets of hip thrust, Then you do a couple of sets of squats, and then you'd finish off with a couple sets of Romanian, where you get a stretch at the bottom, and then when you come up to the top, squeeze your glutes really hard, and then go back down. So that's like a good combo kind.

[D]

Of hit from every angle.

[A]

That's right. That's right. And then. And that. That typically will do it. But hip thrusts Are your friend. Yeah. Hip thrusts are not a better glute developer than squats. Unless you're somebody who has a tough time feeling your glutes.

[B]

Yeah. When you're very.

[A]

In which case they make. They make all the difference.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I know, too, with the hip impingement, especially, like, I just finished up max performance, like, last month, so I lowered the weight on that and just kind of worked on trying to get deep into that squat.

[B]

Perfect.

[F]

Do you think there's any difference in, like, obviously, spreading my feet wider Feels better on the hips. Is it something I should work towards, a more narrow stance and, like, getting low, or does it not matter?

[A]

Either way, it's really okay. Okay. In a perfect world, be able to squat low from every foot position, but. Yeah, but if you're going heavier and you're like, I feel better, be comfortable. That's right. Then go with the wider.

[B]

Nothing wrong with that.

[F]

Okay, cool. That makes a lot of sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you. Julian, did you join our seven days of free training in the Muscle Money Muscle Mommy community?

[F]

No, I just saw it come through, so I've definitely got to get in on that.

[B]

Yeah, hop in. It's absolutely free. We're doing it for the all. All seven days. The guys and I are leading it, and then we have two coaches that will keep it going on. But, yeah, I think we had 300 and something people there last night, and so just come join it.

[A]

Yep.

[F]

Oh, awesome. Yeah. I ran Muscle Mommy in the spring, and I love the program. I thought it was really great.

[B]

And you could just. So you know, because I know that that was some confusion. Like, you can run any program with that community. It's really just. It's like, it's a community based for women that are wanting to build muscle. And so, yeah, there's a lot of people following anabolic and other programs. So with that, it's more about building the community for us.

[F]

That's awesome. Yeah, thanks.

[A]

You got it. Julian, Are you. Are you Italian from both sides or just one side? Side.

[F]

Yeah. I'm Calabrese. So right across the water from you.

[A]

Oh, there you go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You guys are. You guys are angry over there.

[F]

Yeah, we're some stubborn people.

[A]

For sure. That's what they say.

[B]

Well, I hope you take our advice then.

[F]

Yeah, no, I appreciate it.

[A]

Thanks a lot, guys. You got it. Thanks for calling in.

[F]

Take care.

[A]

It's so funny in Italy, the different regions say things. So what she said about being stubborn. Yeah, that's a Thing that Italians will say about people from Calabria.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Means hard head, hard headed. I don't know why they say that. So funny.

[D]

That's weird.

[A]

I know. You know the whole, like, the reason why you'll see so many people rave about hip thrust building.

[B]

That reason right there.

[A]

Yes. And then you'll see studies that compare them to squats and it's like, no, they actually build the same amount of glute. It's. It's not that it's better, but if it's better for you, then it's better.

[D]

Yeah, it's a little more quad.

[A]

And for women who are like, I can't build my butt no matter how many squats I do. They do. And they don't feel it.

[B]

Super, super common in female athletes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because you do. You're. When you're anterior driven and you. And you drive off of the, your foot like that in your quads all the time, you just, that's your default pattern. And so then you go to squat, which is already a quad exercise too. It just takes over. And so it's. And all it is is that you're just become so dominant that almost all my, like, I mean, Katrina's this way too. Katrina. Katrina does a lot of hip thrust us because she was a basketball player. And that's when she does. And she has a hard time.

[A]

You barely go down more than a quarter squat in basketball.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Our next caller is Aaron from Minnesota.

[A]

What's up, Aaron?

[B]

How you doing, Aaron?

[D]

Aaron, what's happening, buddy?

[A]

How can we help you?

[G]

How we doing? How are we doing, guys?

[B]

Good.

[A]

We're good.

[G]

Awesome. I'll just go straight into the question, not waste your time. So in high school, I was up to 2, 290 pounds. And my junior year I just got sick of it. And So I lost £100 and been like four months since then. I'm 33 now. I've, you know, I've been fluctuated up and down, never back that high, but. And then this last April, I decided I want to get in the best shape of my life for my 33rd birthday. So I started to cut. Went down to 2100 calories and I've lost like 25 pounds on that. I'm down to around 186 pounds. The goal is to get to 175 to 180 and maintain there to try to, you know, get in the best shape of my life. So my question is, is just kind of, how do I do this the most efficient way I was at 2100 calories. I was at that for a long time. And for a short period, I dropped down to 18 to try to make progress go faster. Or 18, 100 calories try to make progress go faster. But my question is, is that too big of a deficit being 510at, you know, 186.

[B]

You're.

[G]

And then kind of how long should I maintain that cut till I go back to a maintenance for a while or bulk.

[B]

You're already lower than I would want to take you. And so I'd get you going back the other direction. Hitting, getting down to 1800. That's like my £140 own female. Like. And I'm assuming you're probably a busy, active guy. Probably train at least three to five times a week. Oh, six days a week. Like, that's plus 12 to 14. You need to go the other way, bro. Other way. It's time to. And you'll get, you'll actually get leaner. If you actually give yourself more calories and get strong in the gym, It's. But you're, you're, you're as low as about as I'd ever let you get. And then. And we'd only stay down in that 1800-2000 for a short period to like, maybe drop a little bit. And then I'd always be pulling you out. To me, that's kind of your. That should be your bottom bottom that you ever get to, not somewhere you stay and hold.

[A]

Aaron, what's the most. If we look at your overall fitness, what's the most important goal for you with all of this? If I were to say, what's the ultimate goal? Number one at the top? Yeah.

[G]

Ultimate is like longevity because I have three kids, you know, but for that short period of time, like, are all like, I know you have this. Had this issue. I've watched your videos selling. But, you know, I just wanted to look really good for a short period of time and then maintain that health, you know, that's probably the two biggest. You know.

[A]

Yeah. So with longevity. Of course, longevity. But where I'm getting is do you want to solve this issue of up and down? You know?

[G]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So we got to reverse you. Yeah. I would put you on a slow reverse diet and focus on getting stronger. And I wouldn't even. I wouldn't think about dropping calories for longer, long time. Yeah. And through that process, Adam hit the nail on the head. You're. You're going to get body composition change if you do it Right. So you can actually get leaner and build some muscle at the same time. Yeah, but I wouldn't. Okay. I wouldn't cut you. Definitely not.

[G]

And it, and in that, I know the best router, what I've heard is do a really, really slow gain. So like a quarter of a pound to a half a pound a week. Is that kind of the range you guys want to see if you, if.

[A]

I let you weigh yourself?

[B]

Yeah, I'm not really, I'm not really hung up on the scale. And in fact, someone like you who's lost that much weight, I don't want you to get on the scale because, I mean, shoot, we could actually jump up. You're gonna actually, when you add calories back and you feed the way you should, and then you start, you're gonna gain five pounds right away. So, but it's water, so I'm not.

[G]

That'S all gonna be in my head.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So I, I actually don't like you weighing yourself with someone who's had to lost a lot of weight like that tend to freak out when they see any sort of fluctuation. And you could be doing the perfect thing and you're going to course correct when I don't want you to. So I would actually keep you away from that, that you eating that low calories, you stepping that much, you're not going to get fat on 2500 calories. So I, I, I want you to incrementally keep working up slowly and just, you know, add a couple hundred calories, stay there for a week or two, add a couple more hundred calories, stay there for a week or two and just keep doing that and watch how you feel in the gym.

[A]

You're at 1800 right now.

[G]

Right now I'm back to 2100 because I think that that 1800 was too drastic for that time being.

[A]

So, yeah, go up to 23, three, stay there for a couple weeks, then go up to 24, stay there for going on 25, work your way up slowly, and then focus on getting stronger. In the gym. Where you would go wrong is if you started to let go off the rails. So if you start to go like, instead of going up 200 calories, you're like, I'm just gonna eat everything. That's where this could go wrong. So it's still going to be control, but slowly work your way up. And if you're getting strong in the gym, man, we're moving in the right direction.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

All right.

[G]

I appreciate that, guys. And in that I. I do like to. It's kind of my, like, mental, like, break from, like, just everything to go to the gym. And I know I can just do mobility and some walking. Incline. But what program. I'm gonna buy one after this, so. Which one would you guys suggest just for that? I haven't done maps or any of them yet.

[B]

Oh, anabolic.

[A]

Maps.

[B]

Anabolic. Yeah, maps. Anabolic. And on trigger days, you can do some mobility stuff, trigger sessions and walk and.

[A]

We'll send it to you, bro. You don't have to buy it.

[B]

We'll send it to you. Yeah, so that. That's.

[G]

I'm a business owner, too, guys. I. I want to support you guys.

[A]

You are. By getting on here and talking about, you know, what you're trying to do. So that is.

[B]

All right.

[G]

Can I. I got three things here. So, Justin, are you from the Midwest or you got family out there?

[D]

I went to school out in Chicago, so.

[B]

Chicago.

[G]

So did you ever have Culver's Converse?

[A]

No.

[B]

Culver's.

[A]

Culver.

[D]

No, I haven't.

[G]

Oh, man. You guys gotta try it out. We were just in California, so we. I wanted to ask you that, but. And, Sal, I got a book for you. The Meaning of marriage by C.S.

[A]

Lewis. Oh, check that.

[G]

Check that one out.

[A]

Oh, great. Love, C.S. lewis. Yeah. All right. That's a great recommendation.

[G]

I appreciate you guys, so thank you, man.

[B]

What's up, Aaron? Nothing for me.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[G]

So I'm trying to get my physique to look like you, man.

[A]

I'm just.

[D]

Is it like potbellies or what?

[G]

Your time. But, I mean, your brain is exactly like mine, man. Like, you look at. You look at everything and see a business, or how are they making money? Or how does this work? Or how can I turn that into something? And that's exactly how my brain works. So I feel like we're a lot alike in nuts.

[B]

Well, good news, bro. We're gonna help you right here. If you take our advice right here, you're gonna get what you want. So just keep reverse dieting. Stay with. I'll have Doug send you over the program. I'll also have him give you access to our private forum. That way, as you're going through this process, just shoot us a message, let us know how you're doing, and we'll help you out through the whole thing.

[G]

All right? Time to get strong, guys.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Got it, dude.

[G]

I appreciate you.

[A]

Take it easy, dude. Is that a restaurant? Yeah. Is that what he said? So he owns it.

[B]

I thought it was.

[A]

Is it Like a chain or something.

[D]

It's probably a chain.

[A]

Wow. Good for him. Young guy, guy owning a rest wow restaurant. Father of three. Yeah.

[B]

Doing all this, lost £100.

[A]

Yeah. Reverse diet.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just needs, and he's 14,000. He just, he needs to feed himself, dude.

[A]

Oh God. And he's gonna, he's gonna gain so much muscle.

[B]

The hardest part will be a psychological stay away from. If you, when you listen to this, Aaron, stay away from the scale. You don't need to mess with the scale.

[A]

And you know, it's crazy considering he's a so low calorie, lost all the way. He's got some arms on him. He might have some genetics for building muscle.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, he looks like that's why he, when he feeds himself, he's gonna see and just get strong in the gym. You're gonna see good results. Results.

[C]

Our next caller is Libby from Michigan.

[A]

Hi Libby.

[B]

How you doing Libby?

[A]

Hello. Hello, Hello.

[H]

How are you guys?

[A]

We're good, how are you?

[B]

Very good, good, good.

[H]

So I've got a question for you and a little bit of background to make it make a little bit more sense. Growing up, I was never super athletic. Didn't do sports or anything like that. But I did grow up on a dairy farm. So I was pretty fit. Functional fitness that way. But then I went to college, became much more sedentary, didn't really work out a whole lot lot. Gained a bunch of weight. Didn't love how I looked or how I felt. And then I found fitness through an at home company. Probably your favorite starts with a B, ends in a Y. But I am thankful for that because it did change my mindset, get me introduced to it. But then through that and law school, I was working full time, working out two to three hours a day and then going to law school at night. I wasn't sleeping and, and just keep pushing. And if I didn't work out or my food didn't come from plastic tubs, I didn't eat it. So came to a pretty poor situation there for a while. And then I worked with Dr. Lauren Fitzgerald to fix it back in 2021, before BHRT was super cool. So shout out to her. That's how I found you guys. And then through less training, bulking, things like that, I actually fixed my hormones and was able to get pregnant, which I'm super thankful for. And now my pregnancy was rough. I couldn't really work out a ton. I was just pretty sick. But now my baby is 4 months old. And I'm back to work, trying to get back into the swing of things. And I started Maps Starter about a month ago, and I want to do more. So I know you're going to tell me to not just trust the process, but I also find myself deciding when I should work out because sleep is. Is rough, to say the least with a four month old. And I don't want to push myself so far to go back to the place I was. But I also want to make progress and feel better in my skin again. But I also find myself relying on my Fitbit HRV readiness scores, all of that garbage that a machine can tell me. And I want to be able to trust my body. So I guess I'm kind of stuck on how to balance all of that and still make progress, but not end up in that super dark place that I was a few years ago.

[B]

Libby, did you. Did you join our Muscle Mommy community that started yesterday?

[H]

I saw it last night and clicked on it and then had to go take care of the baby, so I didn't get a chance to go back to it yet.

[B]

Okay, get in there. You are like, perfect. This is why we're. We're building this community for that. And you could be following any program so you could be on Starter, right? So it's not like only people following Muscle Mommy. It's women that want to get stronger, build their metabolism, get fit. I mean, that's the idea. And there it's support for everybody. We're doing it. The. The guys and I are launching it for seven days. So we're in there talking every single day. And then we have two. Two coaches that are going to maintain it going forward, but got to get in there with us for sure.

[A]

Yeah, Libby, this is a. This is gonna. This is new territory for you. You can't approach your fitness like you did your law degree. It just won't work. You can't grind yourself into better health. It just isn't gonna work. Your baby's only four months old. And contrary to what I think, women are sold through social media, it takes a lot longer than four months for you to get to the point where you could start to push yourself. For most of my career, when I trained women who had a baby, it wasn't until a year or two after that they started to feel kind of like they would tell me, like, I kind of feel like myself. So you can't grind yourself towards this. This is a new relationship you're going to have to develop, and you have to approach it like this, my fitness routine has to improve everything else in my life. It has to give me more energy for work. It has to give me more energy for my baby. It has to make me feel healthier and more vibrant, not the other way around. That's going to be the view. Now, the challenge with this is you're very accomplished. You probably only have one gear or I'd say two gears. You have either go all the way or don't go at all. It's probably the two gears that you play with. So the challenge with this is learning how to drive in this new gear. You're somebody that would be a prime candidate for coaching. If you had a coach guide you through this process, what they're going to do is this. They're going to a tell you what to do so you can kind of trust their advice, because you can't really trust your advice right now. Your advice is going to put you. It's going to move you in the wrong direction. It served you well in some areas of life. Life. But it's. It's also caused some problems. And if you keep going down that direction, the problems are going to get really, really bad. Okay, so coach is going to say, do this. And you're going to kind of put your faith in them. Say, okay, I'm going to. I'm going to listen to what you have to say. A coach is also going to help you give yourself grace when you screw up. And the way you're going to screw up is you're either going to push yourself too hard or you're going to fall way off because you're going to have a tough time finding the middle ground. And the coach is going to help you get back on. On and figure this out. The coach is also going to help give yourself grace as you start to figure out what your body is responding to best with. And those moments when you're like, why isn't my body responding? What's going on? I feel like I'm doing the right things. It feels like nothing's happening. Like a good coach is going to be able to walk you through that. So you would be a perfect candidate for a coach. I think you would be very coachable. You're probably a very coachable person. I'm sure you were great with your professors. It sounds like you work Dr. Fish fits and you followed her advice. So I, I would like to have one of our coaches call you because that would be best. But if you don't work with a coach, the view that you're Going to have to constantly remind yourself of is, am I developing the right relationship with fitness? Not am I doing the best routine? Am I getting the best results? Am I. That's. That's going to be second and third first is, am I approaching this with the right mindset and heart posture? And if it's a no, okay, what's the right mindset here? How do I approach this? What am I doing this for? How do I want to feel after this? What do I want to stay away from? What are my tendencies? It's going to be a constant conversation as you develop a new relationship. And then once you kind of start to figure that out and it takes time, then it's going to start to feel more and more natural. And then the old ways will feel less desirable. Horrible. But right now, you've got this. Like I said, you've got these two gears, and it's like full speed ahead or nothing is to build you up. And you have no other gears. And I've trained people like you, so I know this. I'm like. And it's probably resonating. Everything I'm saying is probably resonating with what I'm saying.

[H]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. So. So. But if you do this right, I'm gonna tell you it's gonna be a whole new world for you. And. And I'm gonna sell this to you now. So here comes the close. Okay. It's gonna make you more effective at everything else you do. Yeah. So as effective as you've been with your full speed ahead gear, you're going to be even more effective figuring out how to balance these things. So it's actually going to make you better. You're not going to. Sometimes people are afraid. They're like, but am I going to be a badass still? You're going to be more of a badass because you're going to figure these things out.

[E]

So.

[A]

Okay. Can I have someone reach out to you?

[B]

Yeah.

[H]

Yep. Absolutely.

[A]

All right. All right, good. This will be great.

[B]

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see you on the inside, Libby.

[H]

I will. Can I bug you guys with one more? All right. So no one else has been able to figure this out, so I'm hoping you can help me out. While I was pregnant, I didn't have a ton of joint issues or anything that way. But then about three weeks after I had my baby, my right wrist just started being a pain. I felt like I broke it. And I've had X rays and everything. The chiropractors worked on it. Everything doesn't seem to make it better. And then a few weeks ago, my left wrist also started doing the same thing, which makes it even more difficult, like writing, typing, dealing with the baby. Everyone's like, rest. And I'm like, okay, cool. I have a four month old that needs me. I can't really not use my hands. Any ideas or things I can do to make it better?

[A]

Yeah. Do you.

[B]

You want like a computer? Like crazy. That's interesting.

[A]

Yeah. So hormones during pregnancy cause the joints to loosen. And then post pregnancy, things start to settle again.

[D]

Ligaments and tendons.

[A]

Yeah. And you'll sometimes develop dysfunction. You'll see oftentimes which side is the side you hold your baby in the most?

[H]

Probably my right side.

[A]

Okay. And that's the wrist that started hurting the most first.

[H]

Yes.

[A]

And then you switch sides and the other wrist started hurting you. Yes. Okay. So I want you to pay attention to how you're holding the baby. Okay. Okay. So pay attention to that because that could be causing the issue. And so you position your wrist in a way to where it. It doesn't bother you anymore. Or wear a wrist brace at home when you're picking up the baby. So what you'll sometimes see in women is wrist pain, shoulder pain, or hip pain. And it's almost always the side that.

[D]

They hold the baby resting on the joint.

[A]

Yeah. And it could be you're holding in this kind of supinated position. Yeah. Yeah.

[H]

That's where it hurts. So.

[A]

Yeah. So look at your wrist position and adjust that while you're holding the baby.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

In the meantime, I would do just light mobility movements. Really light.

[D]

Yeah. Wrist cars.

[A]

Yep. And then. And then if you have access to a massage therapist, have them massage the forearm flexors and extenders. And you know, doing that once a week should. Should also help. But a wrist brace while holding the baby to kind of let it cool down and then figure out the position.

[D]

Strengthen it with better patterns.

[B]

Yeah. I'll have Doug sent over to you our maps Prime Pro in there is a cool. A bunch of like, wrist cars and exercises you could do. Actually, specific for your wrist. You could just follow along in there.

[H]

Awesome. That'd be great.

[A]

Yep. Yeah.

[B]

All right. Libby.

[A]

Yeah. I'm glad you asked that question.

[B]

Yeah, Great question.

[H]

Thank you, guys. Also, sale. Just want to say thank you for doing what you're doing with your series. It's awesome. And sharing your faith with everybody. A lot of Christians, we don't have the ability to do that or the want to do that, so thank you.

[A]

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. That's encouraging. Thank you, Liberty.

[H]

Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much.

[A]

You got it.

[D]

Have a good day.

[A]

She'll do so well with the coach.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, she's well. That's why I want right away I was like, you got to get in the community. I mean, I feel like at the, at the very least, at least get inside the muscle mommy be.

[A]

She's very coachable. I guarantee she's going to work really, really well with a coach and kind of. Because it's tough, man. When you have that. You see this with high performing athletes, you'll see this with executives, like high level executives. They've learned to just go and the.

[D]

Method of operation is to just well.

[B]

And it's like I always say, it works, it's served them, you know, it's really tough to break something that you do that has served you so well in life. It's just fitness is different. You know, there has to be the right balance and that's what's best for your body. It's not more is better. So totally.

[A]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's mindpumpmedia.

[C]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at Mind Pump Media. The RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.