2704: How to Finally Reach Peak Fitness

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2704: How to Finally Reach Peak Fitness

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: October 11, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump team dives deep into the real secret behind reaching and maintaining peak fitness. Moving past fad workouts, tribalism in fitness modalities, or the allure of short-term results, they advocate for building a lifelong, enjoyable relationship with fitness. True, lasting results are explained not as a product of the latest routine, but by finding enjoyment, sustainability, and self-awareness in your health habits. The episode features live call-ins covering advanced programming tweaks, overtraining and sleep recovery, postpartum fitness on GLP1 and HRT, and a unique case of lifting with a persistent nerve injury.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Secret to Lasting Fitness: The Root Is More Important Than the Method

[03:01–17:30]

• Beyond Methods: Whether you run, lift, do CrossFit or yoga, all modalities can both help and hinder, depending on how you relate to them.
• Tribalism in Fitness: The hosts lament infighting in the fitness world (e.g. Pilates vs. bodybuilding), noting that any approach can become dysfunctional if driven by insecurity or unhealthy motivation.
  • Adam Schaefer: “Every single one of those can be used in a way that is not going to improve your health and fitness… The secret is in the root of why you’re doing things.” [05:05]
• Measuring Progress: Move beyond relying solely on the mirror or the scale. Measure holistic indicators: sleep, mood, libido, energy, ability to play with your children.
• Consistency Over Perfection: Lifelong adherence trumps the ‘perfect’ short-term routine.
• Real Motivation: Most engage fitness out of insecurity or as a reaction to a crisis, which isn’t always sustainable long-term.
  • Sal DeStefano: “Problem is, quality of life isn’t enough of a motivator… It normally requires something life altering, a massive insecurity… to move them out of that paradox.” [10:18]
• Fitness as a Journey: Nearly everyone fails at first or pursues fitness for the wrong reasons before finding a sustainable groove.
  • Adam Schaefer: “You’re going to fall down 100,000 times along the way… It’s a fitness journey.” [12:36]

2. Powerful Analogies: Fitness & Relationships

[13:24–15:28]

• Pursuing fitness is likened to dating—you often date ‘the wrong person’ for the wrong reasons before learning what genuinely matters for you.
• Guidance (good coaching, positive parental examples) can help—but most people need to have their own journey and setbacks.

3. Why the “Harder” Path Wins: Lifelong Enjoyment vs. Quick Fixes

[15:28–17:38]

• Promoting lifelong health and enjoyment is much harder to “sell” than quick, dramatic 90-day transformations.
• “You will fail” pursuing rapid, aesthetics-only approaches, even if you temporarily succeed.
• Real success rate for unsustainable ‘perfect’ plans is “less than 10% long term.” [16:29, Adam]

4. Fitness Communities & the “Muscle Mommy Movement”

[17:38–19:01]

• Community can accelerate finding the right path (e.g. Muscle Mommy - a women-focused strength community with support, accountability, and coaching).
• The hosts highlight how different women, with different goals, unite around positive motivation and support.

5. Cautionary Tales: David Goggins & Dysfunctional “Motivation”

[19:01–22:42]

• Goggins cited as an example of ‘hating yourself through fitness’—pushing to the point of organ failure and thinking the solution is more volume, not less.

• Harnessing insecurity or hate can fuel short-term results, but not sustainable health.

  • Sal DeStefano: “You are also hating your body if you go so crazy that you reach breaking points where your organs want to shut down.” [22:10]

6. Success is Environmental: The Benefits of Surrounding Yourself With Like-Minded People

[32:19–34:02]

• Entrepreneurial culture and fitness: Drawing an analogy to why the US produces more businesses (immigrants, supportive culture, more ‘bets’ on ideas).
• Adam: “I don’t care what your pursuit is… surround yourself with people who have a similar pursuit and you’re far more likely to be successful.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Motivation Root:
  • “The secret is in the root of why you’re doing things… If you change that, then each one of these things can become incredibly valuable.” – Adam Schaefer [05:06]
• On Failure:
  • “You will fail… you could go do the wrong stuff and get results. You won’t keep it… If you’re listening to this right now, you’ve probably already failed many times.” – Adam Schaefer [16:01]
• Analogy to Relationships:
  • “Very few people right out the gates, their first person they date… It was motivated by the right factors… That’s pretty rare. If ever.” – Sal DeStefano [14:21]
• David Goggins Example:
  • “He talks about health and fitness in a dysfunctional way… You can hate yourself through fitness, too.” – Adam Schaefer [21:00–22:10]
• On Group Influence:
  • “Surround yourself with people who have a similar pursuit and you’re far more likely to be successful.” – Adam Schaefer [32:19]

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Caller Q&A Highlights

1. Josh from Virginia – Phase Rotation vs. Block Programming for Muscle Growth

[53:38–63:45]

• Question: Should I cycle strength/hypertrophy/volume every nine days or stick to four-week blocks for 12 weeks?
• Hosts: Both work; the difference is marginal. For real progress, throw in something novel (e.g. switch to full-body split, focus on different movement patterns).
  • “When you’re consistent, at this stage… one of the best ways to break through a plateau is something more novel than what you’re currently doing, not something similar.” —Sal [65:23]
• Actionable: If plateaued, try a totally different split or program (e.g. from push-pull-legs to full body).

2. Jeremy from Michigan – Muscle Growth While Chronically Sleep-Deprived

[65:23–73:58]

• Question: Everything is dialed except I can’t get deep sleep (26min is a win!). Is my progress limited? What can I do?
• Diagnosis: Classic overtraining (high volume, frequent training + poor sleep).
• Advice:
  • Take a week off; then scale back to two full-body days/week.
  • “Exercise… makes sleep better. Unless it’s too much.” – Adam Schafer [70:13]
  • “If you’re not getting good sleep… it's very much so over training.” – Sal DiStefano [69:07]
• Outcome: He’ll likely see improved recovery, muscle gain, and well-being—less is more, especially at age 50.

3. Lindsay from Florida – Postpartum Reverse Dieting After Rapid Weight Loss on GLP-1 + HRT

[75:00–84:07]

• Situation: Lost 50 lbs on GLP-1 (weight loss med), now titrating down. In early postpartum, started HRT. Wants to reverse diet, build muscle, and fix body comp (esp. glutes).
• Advice:
  • Take it slow: “You’re not even a year postpartum. Most women don’t feel themselves for like two years.” – Adam [80:14]
  • Cut training volume (no more 5x/week). Suggest 2–3x/wk lifting, higher calories, focus on strength.
  • Join a supportive community (Muscle Mommy Movement).
  • Hosts express concern she started both medications quickly postpartum, but support her reversing the aggressive steps now.
• Actionable: Focus on muscle gain, controlled calorie increase, less training stress.

4. Jason from Nevada – Lifting With a Non-Functioning Trapezius

[85:17–93:13]

• Case: Nerve severs at age 17; one trap doesn’t work. Now 48 and fit, but imbalanced. Can he improve symmetry/training effect?
• Advice:
  • You must allow compensations in this unique scenario; try electric muscle stimulation (e-stim) if any hope of muscle firing remains.
  • Train both bilateral and unilateral as best fits; focus on support muscles (rhomboids, serratus).
  • With sleep limitations, focus on sustainable, brief workouts (MAPS 15 advised).
  • “You want those compensations when you don’t have a muscle you can’t fix.” – Justin Andrews [93:29]

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Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:01] – Main topic begins: The true secret to lifelong fitness
• [05:05] – Tribalism and why motivation root matters
• [12:36] – Why it’s normal to fail repeatedly on the “fitness journey”
• [19:00] – The David Goggins cautionary tale
• [32:19] – The power of a supportive community
• [53:38] – Caller Josh: Programming for muscle
• [65:23] – Caller Jeremy: Overtraining, sleep, and recovery
• [75:00] – Caller Lindsay: GLP1/HRT and postpartum reverse dieting
• [85:17] – Caller Jason: Training with nerve injury

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Final Takeaways

• The path to peak fitness isn’t about the perfect routine—it’s about cultivating an internal motivation and relationship with movement that’s joyful, sustainable, and adaptable.
• Programs and modalities matter much less than motivation, environment, and consistency.
• Community and positive role models can supercharge your commitment.
• Beware of extremes—both in undertraining and overtraining; more is not always better.
• In addressing plateaus or unique situations (e.g. postpartum, injury, chronic sleep loss), doing less or something different often unlocks progress.

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Find Mind Pump on Instagram:
@mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug
Podcast & Programs: mindpumppodcast.com | mapsfitnessproducts.com
Muscle Mommy Movement Community: musclemommymovement.com

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This summary delivers the essential lessons, best quotes, and practical caller advice from Episode 2704, enabling both fans and newcomers to apply the Mind Pump “raw fitness truth” to their own journey.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

From the Cascades to PDX to your.

[Adam Schaefer]

Kitchen, we recycle like we live here.

[Lindsay]

That's why governments, brands and recycling companies.

[Adam Schaefer]

Are all joining together to bring change to make recycling better. As in trusting that your recyclables end.

[Lindsay]

Up in the right places to be.

[Adam Schaefer]

Made into new things and having brands help fund the cost of recycling.

[Lindsay]

You can find the Latest [e-mail] Oregon. From Mount Hood to the bin under your desk, together we can do this.

[Doug]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Mind Pump Mind Pump.

[Sal DeStefano]

With your hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Doug]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Adam Schaefer]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we coached people on air for their health and fitness. Real people calling in asking us for help. But this was after the intro. Today's intro is 51 minutes long. Now. In the intro we talk about fat loss and muscle gain and fitness. We also talk about family life and current events. It's always a great time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you call and we can help you out, send us your questions. Send it to liveindpumpmedia.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Element. This is an electrolyte drink. You can either get the powder or you could get the ready to drinks. They have new flavors now like watermelon stuff. Tastes amazing. No sugar, no artificial sweeteners. Go check them out. Go to drinklement.com mindpump on that link you'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink. Mix flavors with any purchase. This episode is also brought to you by Joy Mode. They have a pre sex supplement that has been shown to actually work. The ingredients are backed by data and Adam talks about his experience today using Joy Mode. You want to try it out? Go to tryjoymode.com mindpump Use the code mindpump at checkout. Get 20% off. We also have a sale on maps. GLP1. This is a workout program designed for people who are using a GLP1 like Ozempic or WeGovy. Tirzepatide semaglutide. It's a workout program. There's diet advice, there's lifestyle advice. All designed to maximize fat loss, minimize muscle loss. In fact, you'll probably gain strength and muscle and boost your metabolism. Following this program. You can get it for half off. Go to mapsglp1.com. Use the code GLP50 for the discount. Back to the show. All right, fitness. There's so many different ways to become fit. You can run, cycle, swim, Pilates, yoga. You can lift weights. You can do CrossFit. Now, of course, they all produce different things in the body, but ultimately, people pursue them to improve their health and fitness. But what's the secret? How can you do something for the rest of your life? How can you create a relationship with fitness where this is just something you always do and you never stop? Because that's really the big challenge. Today. We're going to talk about that. What is the secret to ultimate fitness? Let's go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it would be.

[Adam Schaefer]

It would have.

[Sal DeStefano]

It would have something to do with learning to measure all the other, like, things outside of the mirror and the scale. Right. Like, can I use. Because let's just say, like you said, you could have all these different modalities that could get you to the same point. So it's not. This isn't an argument over that's right, this is wrong or anything like that. It's more so, you know, there's a ton of different ways to skin a cat, but the real. The thing that's going to make you successful is if the thing that you're measuring at the end is, am I sleeping better? Is my libido better? Am I happier? Can I. Can I do the things with my kids that I want to, like, if. But I don't know how to. How you would say that or categorize.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean, that's really good. That's really good.

[Justin Andrews]

Why would you say the secret lives within you?

[Adam Schaefer]

I guess if you want to make it weird. I think, you know, when we first started. I'll take it back. Right. When we first started the show, we had a couple big goals. One of them was to counter a lot of lies that the fitness industry puts out. And we've been doing that for 10 years. The other thing that we really saw a challenge with was the. Just for lack of a better term, the tribalism that exists in fitness. So what you see in fitness is you have these groups now, all of them are true, trying to improve their health and fitness. Let's say maybe not. Maybe they'll say that. In reality, they're not really trying to do that, but ultimately that's what's happening, or that's what they're trying to do. And you have people who use a lot of bodybuilding or powerlifting or CrossFit or Pilates or yoga or running and Then in these camps or these tribes, what they like to do is poke at each other or point to each other and say, well, that's wrong. That's not good. And what I'd like to point to is that every single one of those can be used in a way that is not going to improve your health and fitness. Every single one of those can become dysfunctional.

[Josh]

Also.

[Adam Schaefer]

Every single one of those methods can be used to improve the things that you said, Adam. You can run if that's your favorite thing to do, or do Pilates or yoga or lift weights. You can do those things to dramatically improve the quality of your life and develop a relationship with those things to where you want to do it forever. So less than the methods, although I do believe there's parameters of, you know, what works, what doesn't work, and, you know, what's considered appropriate application. The root. Like, what is the root intention. Yeah, like, if I'm using strength training, but the root is I'm, you know, like mine, let's be personal. Like, I'm too skinny. I need to get bigger. You know, my value is in how much muscle I have. It becomes dysfunctional. Right. It's not really. I'm no longer doing it to improve the quality of my life. It's actually becoming something completely different. And I think that could be true for any of these different pursuits. So really, the secret is in the root of why you're doing things. I think if you change that, then each one of these things can become incredibly valuable, and then the balance is kind of, you know, baked in, you know, again, taking it back. You'll often hear us, you know, promote strength training to people, but that's largely because people will give us a specific goal or what we know we're dealing with is, well, this person doesn't have a lot of time to spend at the gym. What's going to give them a big roi? Strength training just seems to be one of the best tools for that. But ultimately it's about, you know, and that's just for us, it was so.

[Justin Andrews]

Considering the individual, which is a lot of times my qualm with most things that we experience in education and politics. And you name the category, it's group think. You get swept into it and it. It's kind of a natural thing because, you know, people get passionate about when things work and, you know, what's. What's worked well for them. However, you got to kind of remove yourself back and really assess personally how this is affecting your individual results. And so, you know, that's just something to just always kind of be conscious of being swept into the momentum of the group.

[Sal DeStefano]

I would say it's largely dictated by, by the application. And the application is mostly influenced by the roof. Yeah, because I do think that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Great point.

[Sal DeStefano]

I do think that somebody, potentially we'll just use CrossFit, but insert anything can be used with it being applied appropriately and get said desired outcome, even if the root isn't ideal. Right. Like, so somebody who really understand, maybe someone who listens to this show but still loves CrossFit. And so they, they take those nuggets, they go, okay, I hear what the guys are saying, why it, it's a slippery slope and why, you know, the programming needs more of this. And so they modify their, their CrossFit training and they, they measure the things. But deep down they still want to get jacked. You know, they still want to look jacked and that's their motivator. So I think that you can not have, still not have the most ideal route driver so long as the application is appropriate. But I would to agree with you, ultimately most people's application is applied in relation to the root. Does that make sense?

[Adam Schaefer]

It's my product of it, so 100%, yeah. I'll give you an example, two examples, right? So if the goal is, if we look at the biggest challenge with the average person when it comes to fitness, the biggest challenge is consistency, period, end of story. It's like the biggest challenge is people just, they're not able to, or they find it super challenging to make fitness and health a regular part of their life and be able to maintain it forever. In other words, if you could solve that, you've solved everything. So I'll give you an example. What I mean, you have person one who does the perfect routine and perfect diet, but doesn't love it, doesn't have a relationship with it, where they just love it and want to do it forever. Person B does suboptimal application of these things. So it's not absolutely perfect, but it's not terrible. Of course, it's within the parameters of what's appropriate. But they love it, they find enjoyment, it brings life quality, they have a good relationship with it. Who's going to be more successful throughout their life? Right? The person who has the love for it, who has the good relationship with it. And so that's really the secret to ultimate fitness. And what's so disheartening for a lot of people, that's why I get so passionate about this, is people who are Getting into fitness, they jump into the space, they're like, okay, I'm ready to do something about my health. And they get in there and they're like, this is bad. That's better. Do this. More effective, do that. And they're like, ah, which one do I do? I'm so confused. I don't know which direction. And this person says that's wrong. And this person says that's bad. And they say that bodybuilders are not functional. Bodybuilders are saying, you ain't going to build any muscle. But I like to run, it's my favorite thing to do. Or I like to dance. What's wrong with dancing? Oh, it's not, it's not the most effective thing, but I love it. So I think it's a very important conversation for people and I think it's incredibly important for trainers because if you're a trainer, you have, there's a lot of goals you have for your clients, but the ultimate goal is, can I get this person to want to do this for the rest of their life? The most important thing you can foster in that person is a relationship that makes that happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

Problem is, quality of life isn't enough of a motivator to get you out of that beta paradox. That's the problem with that. If you are having what you could consider a relatively good life, but you're just way out of shape, you rarely hear that client go, you know what I think, but I want to improve the quality of my life, I should go get healthier and take care of myself. It normally requires something that is life altering, a massive insecurity, something, something to move them out of that paradox. Otherwise they stay in that, that place, comfort zone, comfort zone until the doctor goes, hey, you're going to die if you don't do this, or someone close to us does, or you get to this place where you just feel disgusting yourself, or maybe somebody is teasing you. That goes back down to a deep rooted insecurity from childhood of, oh my God, remember when they called me chubby and someone said that like it's normally something like that that moves us in the direction of, of change. But we know that that's not the place you, you had to stay. So it's tough to hear the advice you're giving without not first doing it the wrong way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, people come, people often come to us for the wrong reasons.

[Sal DeStefano]

Almost always.

[Adam Schaefer]

Most people do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Almost always.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And even what you said like this is by this a fact. People will have a heart attack or Their doctor's like, you're going to. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sometimes that's not even a motivator.

[Adam Schaefer]

That doesn't improve consistency. Oftentimes. No, you're right. If anything, they start and they're like, okay, I'm really motivated. And then they go right back. You know, there's people who had, who, who have heart attacks and their doctors like stop smoking and then they stop for a while, they go back. So the root is the most important thing. The relationship with fitness and health is the most important thing. If you could build that properly from the right place, the rest of it takes care of itself. Now I'm not saying there are.

[Justin Andrews]

Correcting something has an end.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Enjoying it and learning to love it like it. That's indefinite.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Sal DeStefano]

But can we do it without first banging our head or first being frustrated or first. Do you think it's possible? But do you think it's possible there's somebody listening right now who doesn't currently work out and goes, you know what? I do want to improve my qualif. And goes to the gym and goes and does it. Do you think that's possible?

[Adam Schaefer]

I think it's possible. But I don't think it's possible that you're going to get on this journey and not fall down 100,000 times along the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Account for that.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're going to like.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like one of those things that.

[Adam Schaefer]

I almost feel like, like nobody's ever done this right out the gates.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It's almost like you, it's inevitable you had to fail and it's almost inevitable you had to do it for the wrong reason to then learn that lesson, to then do it the right way.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why we call it a fitness journey.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a, it's a, it's a total, it is a growth journey. But if you start, if you, if you aim in this direction and you'll fall the whole way. I still fall. And I'm a fitness professional. I've been doing forever. I still fall. But if you aim in this direction every time you fall, you'll try to get back on the path and you'll stumble your way towards what I'm talking about, which is this kind of lifelong, so unique.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is there anything else like that? Gosh, is there anything else that requires most people to be driven by insecurities, life changing things just to get you moving and you normally move in the wrong direction first. Or maybe not the ideal direction. Right. Because your motivator, your root cause, it's not Ideal yet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Maybe you're right. Good point.

[Sal DeStefano]

Would you say pursuing relationship.

[Adam Schaefer]

That might be it. Imagine the guy, you know, the guy. Anyway, the guy or the girl keeps dating the wrong people.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a good. I like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I like that. And you're like, wait a minute.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because that's something that we.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm after the wrong things.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that's it. That's actually it is anything. You totally missed the mark on that. But that was a really. That's a really damp water, though. Yeah, that was.

[Jason]

That.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a. That's. I think that's. I think that's a really good example and I can't think of a better one than that because you. We. Many people that go pursue relationships think that they're pursuing it correctly or for the right reasons. And something that you learn when you date a lot of people is like, oh, this whole time or you get divorced.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Or.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, right. I was looking for the wrong things. Or I. Yeah, that's a good. That's a good one. And very few people right out the gates, their first person they date, they. They hit a home run. Yeah, they, they, they, they. It was motivated by the right factors. They knew what they're supposed to do. I mean that's, that's pretty rare. If ever a lot of people could. I know there's people out there that married their, Their first love that would probably make that argument. But I don't know if I would call that more luck than it was like you really knowing what you were supposed to get.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. I think having the right guidance helps a lot. Like if you work with a good coach that understands this going into the right mentality. Yeah, dude, Huge. Yeah. Most people don't start with a good coach or. Yeah. Or.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So having like having a good guy I want. That would be great. Using Justin's analogy, I wonder if those people that have had that success of good.

[Adam Schaefer]

They probably had good examples with their parents.

[Justin Andrews]

Great examples of parents.

[Adam Schaefer]

They probably had strong faith with good morals. Good. You know, pre wedding, you know, good, good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good counseling along the way too. Right. Like a good dad or mom that they could lean on and be like, hey, I'm having this challenge with my.

[Justin Andrews]

Personally healthy and a mentally healthy place.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, first going into.

[Sal DeStefano]

Interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. But you know, when it comes to fitness, I mean we've been. Look, guys, we've been trying to do this for 10 years. We've been trying to attract people with a message that is way less attractive than the wrong message. This is way Harder to sell. I'm telling you. Hey, we're gonna do this forever, and we're gonna find a way. You gotta do it because you really want to care for yourself and be healthy. And Mrs. Johnson or whoever's like, I wanna lose 40 pounds. What are you talking about? I want to look jacked or I want to be ripped? What are you talking about? That guy over there told me I can make it happen in 90 days. And all I got to do is, you know, work out with him and take this pill or whatever. That's way easier to sell than what we're selling. But what I'm trying to say right now is you will fail. And I don't mean you're not going to get results. You could go do the wrong stuff and get results. You won't keep it. The fail rate is almost 100%. It's not going to happen. In fact, if you're listening to this right now, you've probably already failed many times. In fact, your idea of success is based off of your failures. In other words, how many times have you talked to somebody who says, oh, this diet I did before, man, it worked really well.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why did it? No, it didn't because it stopped. You stopped, right? You went back to the weight, came back on. It actually didn't work. It totally failed. So it's really, it's about how I do. It's like, if somebody goes into this and says, I want to find a way to enjoy this, I want to find a way to value this, and I want to feel better in my life and improve my health, and they just use that as their guide. They're far more likely to get there, Far more likely to get there and develop a great relationship with this than the person that's like, I'm going to follow this routine that I read is perfect. Follow this perfect diet because I'm fat and I want to get, you know, I want to look better, that person's odds of success are almost zero. It's like less. It's like less than 10% long term. So the secret to all of this is that root. And if you pursue that and trainers, this is the, this is what you got to do for your clients. If you do this with your clients, well, first off, your business will succeed. You won't have to get clients every single, you know, two or three months because they're going to stay with you. But also, number two, they will have this ability. You'll develop this with them where they can do this for the rest of their life, and then they don't ever have to worry about it again.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, it's cool to watch right now because I feel like we're getting to watch this happen real time for people in a large group setting in the muscle mommy movement.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yes. That's what motivated me to talk about this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because there's so many questions in there that are so individual and unique. Yeah. And yes, there's right answers for them. But ultimately it's this. Yeah, it's this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Can we foster this?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And I do. I feel like I'm watching that happen real time. It's really cool to see. I mean, it. The feedback that we've gotten on that community is just unbelievable. Way better than what I had anticipated it was going to be. And so it's exciting to see and didn't realize how. How much maybe our community needed something like that. You know, I thought maybe because we. I felt like we were so connected with all the things that we do, but something about that. That group is just. It's incredible to watch all these ladies moving in, even though different goals all have different challenges, so that. Yet moving kind of in the same direction. I think a lot of it has to do with this part, is that most of it. Yeah. Is like. Because everyone is figuring that out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, our trainers who run this, and we pop in there occasionally. It's usually we have our trainers that run this. They know what to do, they know the right answers. They know how to apply nutrition. They know how to play exercise like you should if you're a good trainer. But this is the coaching part. And the goal is, can we get these women. I don't know how many people we have in there now, but can we keep this women. Keep these women on this path now so they don't ever want to stop again? This becomes what they do forever.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So. And it's an ongoing thing, by the way, I'll mention the link for anybody who wants to join. It's musclemommymovement.com and it's going to be ongoing. It's ongoing group coaching. So a good example of what I'm talking about, because dysfunction with health can look. Well, see, there's the obvious where it's like obesity, chronic disease or whatever, but then there's a less obvious. Because you look at the person, you go, whoa, that person looks fit and healthy. But when you dig deeper, you see this tremendous dysfunction. And I'm gonna use a very famous guy as an example of this. I just read an article about David Goggins. David Goggins. There's a reason by the way, I don't hate. I don't know the guy. I'm sure, I'm sure he's a good guy.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm sure we'd like him.

[Adam Schaefer]

We probably would like him but we've never had him on the show because he, he is and communicates the example of dysfunction on the opposite end of the spectrum. So the way he talks about health and fitness is, is not healthy. It's a dysfunctional way of promoting health and fitness. And I'll give you an example. So there was this, this is just an example of how you can hate your. Hate yourself through fitness as well. So I read this article about how he implemented this new routine because all of his organs were shutting down. I'm going to read you what the article said and you gu can hear for yourself. So after running over 150 miles a week, competing in countless ultra marathons and breaking world records for in pull ups which is over 4,000 in 17 hours, his body reached a breaking point. My organs were shutting down. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't even get out of bed. A specialist told him, you're the tightest person I've ever seen. You've got 50,000 hours of stress trapped in your body. So from that moment on, here's what David Goggins did. He started doing a two hour stretching routine before bed every night. He added more stuff to his body, which is wild.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That, that's the answer.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not the answer.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's not the answer. That's the answer. He thought that was the answer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is to do a two hour before bed stretching routine.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just to continue to.

[Justin Andrews]

It makes sense with his thought process about how to approach things. So you know like that would be, you know. Well, stretching is going to help to kind of unwind and help me gain a little bit of resolve with the stress and like get it out. But definitely not, I mean even the.

[Sal DeStefano]

The, the level of intensity of application on that's hilarious. Like two hours. I got a plan now. I'm going to do two hours of doing this every day. Yeah. I mean this is also the same guy who used to take all the hate comments and negative stuff they say and puts it in his headphones as he works out and runs like he is. He, he leverages that. It's a, it's an incredible motivator though. I tell you what fueled and I think that's why I think that's why he's. He's loved so much is if you've ever tried to flip hate or insecurity on its head and use it as a motivator, it will propel a lot of people forward or in the right direction. Problem is, it's going back to your point with the root cause. It's the wrong root cause. It's the wrong reason to go.

[Adam Schaefer]

If the irony is this and do.

[Sal DeStefano]

That and you eventually will break, the irony is this.

[Adam Schaefer]

He'll talk about obese people or people who aren't in shape, and he'll tell them you're hating your body and not realize he's hating himself with the way he's doing it. So, yes, it's true. And you might not be trying to do this, but if you're really obese and you're not active and you're not eating healthy, you are actively, through your actions, hating your body. But you are also hating your body. If you do what he does, which is you go so crazy that you reach breaking points where your organs want to shut down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that a recent article?

[Adam Schaefer]

It was a recent article. I don't know how recent that those events were, but the article I found was.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've been meaning to check back in. I saw. I mean, I think I brought up on the show a week or two ago when all the events happen with his daughter online. That's caused a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that made me sad.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's unfortunate. But I hadn't followed up to see what the latest news on that is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Anyway, I got to tell you guys, funny. So I just got. I got on the phone this morning, so my parents are in Sicily right now. So they've been there now for a few weeks. They'll be there for a few more weeks. And this is what both of my parents are from. And my dad, you know, he came here when he was 18 or 19. So they're over there with his family, and they're sending videos and pictures, and it's really cool. It's good to see my dad with his brothers and. And all that stuff. And the culture over there. So just. It's so intense. It's so loud and chaotic. It's so crazy. They'll send me videos of, like, it's a dinner and. Well, first off, the kitchen is not big because they don't have, like, you know, our family have a lot of money or whatever, so it's a small. So it's like the entire kitchen is taken up by a long table. And they're just all around each other and it's just bright and loud and blah. And I remember like the energy that you would feel over there, especially if you're driving cars honking. It's just, it's a lot of, a lot of stuff. But anyway, I was talking to my dad and my, my dad's like, oh. I said, oh, how's it been over there? Oh, pretty good. He goes, I went to judo the other day. I'm like, oh, great. So my dad went back to, so his old judo school. He went to go visit. So my dad now is in his 60s and he's got, you know, arthritis from, you know, hard labor since he was 9. So he's got his back hurt, all this stuff. But of course he goes to judo.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And his instructor, you know, gave him a gi. So he's like, hey, you should, you should train. Yeah, you should train with some of us. So my dad was training with their, the, the teen and 20 year old guys. Yeah, of course. So he's going over there, right? And so his, the, the main instructor there was a guy that came up with my dad. So he knows that my dad has this like inhuman strength and he still does, even though he's all, you know, half broken or whatever. So, So I guess my mom, my mom's telling the story. So I guess he tells these kids who are in their 20s. He says, hey, let, let, let Dominic, Domenico, grab your gi and then try and use your gi, your grip breaking techniques. Because in judo, if someone gets a good grip on you, you got to break the grip, otherwise they're gonna potentially throw you. So my dad did it and nobody could get it. Nobody could break his grip, dude. And these kids are like, what's wrong with you? I can't break. And then the, the instructor's laughing, he goes, okay, now let him pin you and then see if you can get him off. And he got on top of him, held him, and they like, like nobody was moving. They're like, they're like, how much do you weigh? What is going on here? Oh my God. So my dad's telling me the story. Like that's his ego.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was gonna say, what an excellent day for him though. That's gotta feel excellent.

[Adam Schaefer]

But today he's like hurting. Oh yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's like, worth it. Worth it?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah, totally worth it. So cracks me up, dude. I remember once in jiu jitsu he did that too. He was in his 50s when he came to jiu jitsu with me. And I Remember there was this high level competitor who kept trying to break my dad's grip. And I mean, at one point he put his foot on my dad's hand and just tore his gi. Cuz his hand wouldn't break the grip.

[Sal DeStefano]

That is crazy. You know, speaking of your dad, you brought up a thing one time when you talked about what, what reading level. When did he stop school? He only made it to how far?

[Adam Schaefer]

He was nine.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Adam Schaefer]

So nine he stopped going to school. I don't know. What grade are you at night at 9?

[Doug]

4Th grade. 30.

[Sal DeStefano]

4Th grade.

[Adam Schaefer]

4Th grade.

[Sal DeStefano]

You want to know a stat that I saw today?

[Adam Schaefer]

What?

[Sal DeStefano]

I was fascinated. Do you know what percentage of Americans have lower than a sixth grade reading level?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's terrible.

[Doug]

I'm afraid it's too high.

[Justin Andrews]

I know, I was gonna say it's probably.

[Doug]

I'm gonna say 40%.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know. That's high.

[Sal DeStefano]

If it's 40%, I know, it's really high, right? It's like 20, almost 60%.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh my gosh.

[Sal DeStefano]

Can you believe that?

[Adam Schaefer]

How do they judge reading level? So what would be considered.

[Sal DeStefano]

We all take tests throughout school and you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I know that, but I mean, what would be considered above 6th grade? Like what book would be above 6th grade reading level? I'd like to see what that is.

[Sal DeStefano]

You could probably google that and see what books are considered sixth grade reading level. I mean, nonetheless, isn't that alarming?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

More than half the country is less than a sixth grade. I had to, I fact checked it because I didn't believe it. It was actually. He said it was 60. It was like when I looked it up, it was 56. That and 20%. Not even like a second grade. Like crazy amount.

[Doug]

20.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was wild.

[Justin Andrews]

Currently? Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right now? Yes. Yeah, it was, it was a conversation. It was Ray Dalio and somebody else. They were talking.

[Adam Schaefer]

Harry Potter is sixth grade. Okay. So that's about as high as it goes for 60 of people. Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

You believe that?

[Adam Schaefer]

That was a hard book to understand. When I read it, I couldn't understand. Did you guys get it? No, we didn't understand.

[Sal DeStefano]

We never read. But isn't that fascinating? I mean, that's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Crazy. That's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, the thing that more than more than half of those people are influencing how and what we do in this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Country is a little scary. You know what's wild to me, I see stats like this all the time. How terribly dumb Americans are. It's like these typical, you know, they. Oh, our math, you know Level, our reading level. And yet our entrepreneurial production still outperforms everybody, destroys everybody, which I think points to other things. I'm not saying that one of the made.

[Sal DeStefano]

The number one factors for that is what is the amount of money we have. People betting on people. So no other country in the world has as many people that are betting on other people. And that is a huge factor.

[Adam Schaefer]

So explain that. What do you mean?

[Sal DeStefano]

So in other words, like let's say Australia or another, and. And here, equal smart people, or let's say there's the equal, like an Elon Musk here and an Elon Musk there type of person. He is far more likely to get somebody to back him financially bet on him.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Than in Australia.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so just purely off of. And that makes. And I mean, think about how many fa. How many failed companies there are and how many times you do. And we know angel investing, that doesn't go the way you want to go. Most of them fail. And we can afford, the US can afford to keep doing that until you finally hit that one.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so that's one of the major factors.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think that's part of it. I think the entrepreneurial spirit also has been with us for a long time because so many people came to this country, still do with this idea that I can make this happen, I can do this thing, I can start.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a melting pot of ideas.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so people come up. So there's a culture of that?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, yeah, no, it's because I've heard.

[Adam Schaefer]

People like, I have friends that are European Italy. I have some friends, you know, in other countries, UK or whatever. And they say that the culture is. Is more like, oh, come on, why are you trying to stand out? Or, you know, why just go do this other thing? Whereas over here it's like, encourage, blend.

[Justin Andrews]

In like some of those other countries.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So that makes a big difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, yeah, I think it's going to attract even those people. I mean, there's people that fly across the world to go directly to Silicon Valley and then them and eight other dudes live in a house together all while that, like, that doesn't exist really. I mean, there's probably places that have TR to try to create something similar to that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I think it's a culture, but it is.

[Sal DeStefano]

We are known for that so much that people will literally leave and move in with a incubator and go live with eight, 10 other dudes that are all on computers just trying their ideas.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

And Then you have a ton of people that are going, I, I think that I like this kid, let's bet on him. And literally being wrong 90% of the time, the betting on these people. But because we have that, that amount of times that we're betting on those people is so much greater than anywhere else in the country. It allows for more of those success rates, which only just perpetuates what you're saying causes more of the culture of.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I think more people coming. Yeah, it keeps feeding.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it feeds into itself.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like I have family members in, on one part of my family that are really educated. They live in northern Italy. And when you talk to them about their career choices, you know, they'll go to school, get this education, and then I'll ask them. And there's two reasons for this. Right. So I'll say, have you thought about opening up your own office? Why would I do that? I get this guarantee, if I get this job over here and they give me a little stuff over here, why would I take a risk like what you said? The other reason is in many countries there's a lot of barriers, so it's like difficult to do that. Like you have to get all these licenses and permits and here it's a lot easier. But I think the culture plays a big role because the truth is, being an entrepreneur is a lot of it is. There's a lot of sayings around it, right. Like an entrepreneur is the only person willing to work 80 hours to avoid working 40 hours. Or it's an entrepreneur, someone who jumps out of a plane and makes a parachute on the way down. Like it's, it's. If you just base, you know, off a logic, it's probably more logical to go get a stable job.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, imagine to how much easier it is to, to be that person or take that chance when you move to an area or a house where that's where everybody, everybody is doing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's not, it's not. We're in a room, you know, this size and we're looking around and there's 20 of us. And it's like, okay, literally 20 of us in here. Only two of us might make it. Yeah, I'm, I'm all in. I'm doing it. And it's like you would probably never do that except unless you had a surrounding like that you were all by yourself and someone told you the odds.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the workaround too, to the regulations. Cuz like work hours and all that, you know, they're just all living Together, constantly working, and they're all dedicated to this one idea together. So, yeah, to be able to foster that, you don't find that around the world.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what that points to. I don't care what your pursuit is, but surround yourself with people who have a similar pursuit and you're far more likely to be successful at that pursuit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just to. Just to confirm another stat that I saw too, that. So Australia leads, or excuse me, UK leads this. Yeah, UK leads this. 16, 500 millionaires a year leave there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. And I'm sure they land in places like the US for the reason that you're talking about. We've created that culture of you can come become a billionaire. And there's more.

[Justin Andrews]

We have a lot of the examples. Right. So because it started out with the energy side where it's like, okay, we have all, you know, this oil and, and ways to, you know, these, these gajillionaires from that now, you know, technology. And so you have like multiple examples of that.

[Sal DeStefano]

We have a disproportion of people that are trying to make it and that are willing to bet on people that are trying to make it in our, in our country, which allows that to look that way.

[Adam Schaefer]

What is that exact number? 16, 500 individuals departing in 2025. Pretty good. I remember forecast. Yeah. You saw that same stat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the stats that stat. I was talking. And they're the highest, I believe. Right. Is that they're the high, they're the worst. So I think. I don't know what if you.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'll make it. I'll create an analogy that makes more sense, just so people kind of get this. If you run a business, if you have a company, I don't care what the company is. You have this company and your most talented employees keep leaving. You're doing something wrong.

[Josh]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, what are you doing wrong?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That your best people continue to leave. Now, I'm not saying that millionaires are the best people overall, but I mean in terms of production. In terms of. Yeah, but economic production. Imagine they're the best producers.

[Sal DeStefano]

Imagine how hard it is to solve that problem when someone like America is so far ahead of you in that. So, like, back to my point that you've got, you know, so let's say the legislatures, for argument's sake, for this UK has 10 billionaires that are willing to bet on these young entrepreneurs. The US has 1,000 billionaires that are willing to do it. You live in the uk, you're trying to build this business. Do I stay here and hope I get one of the 10 guys to give you money, or do I fly over there? So regardless of what policy, regulation, all the things are to the point you're making right now, I'm still going to go over there because my odds are greater.

[Adam Schaefer]

Could be. But I wonder what they're. I wonder what it. What it costs like. Doug, look up. How much does the average millionaire in the UK pay in taxes versus the average millionaire in the US These are.

[Sal DeStefano]

People that are bleeding right here. I want to see this stat, actually.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow. UK is losing a lot. China's gaining, it looks like. Is that what that is?

[Sal DeStefano]

China's at 13 -13,000.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, why do I see two graphs?

[Doug]

That's 2023 and 2025.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, okay, okay, I see that. Wow, look at that. All these countries lose people. France gained some in 2023, but then lost.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, but what does that highlight?

[Adam Schaefer]

I wonder what policy they changed. That's what I.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then I'm assuming America is in the plus. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Pro. It's got to be. It's not.

[Sal DeStefano]

We can't see it. I think Doug scrolls down. We can see it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let me see.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm doing a double search here. I don't see the US because we're pot, we're plot.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're positive. The rest of these are all the negative ones. But God, look how bad UK is.

[Adam Schaefer]

So here's what I want to know. In 2023, they lost 3200 in. In 2025, they're projected at least 16, 500 something policy change. Something happened that was a policy change.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. 100 you. That has to be. That's a. That's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's got to be that they.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because look at nobody nowhere else has gotten worse by that much. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

China got better, which all China has to do is say, you can't leave.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, China got better. Everywhere got better. Anywhere get worse except for uk.

[Adam Schaefer]

South Korea got a little worse. Numbers are small, but got a little worse.

[Sal DeStefano]

Boy. What. I mean, you're right. UK had to have done something.

[Adam Schaefer]

They must have done some crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

2020, 2024. Something must have came, rolled out.

[Adam Schaefer]

What does it say?

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot going on over there.

[Doug]

So anyway, I'm looking at taxes here in the UK. It seems that the rate is about 45% for those earning over a million pounds.

[Adam Schaefer]

So the average over a million pounds is going to pay almost half of their income in taxes.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Doug]

The US is a little more complicated because there's various, obviously Our top rate I believe is like 38%.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. But we have a lot of tax breaks and incentives, so that is.

[Doug]

Yeah. So it really depends on how your income is generated. So for example, capital gains.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why did so many millionaires leave the uk? Exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just. Just Google that. Because that's just that there's got to be some theories around that to have that alarming. I mean, nowhere else in the world.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's what's crazy about the mentality too is you have the average, average person's not a millionaire. Right. Average person's like, you should give us more of your stuff. You should. But what you're doing is you're getting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Rid of the people that are innovating.

[Adam Schaefer]

People that are the best innovators and the people are creating wealth and they're going other places. So it doesn't necessarily work out in your favor.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what I mean?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's. That's like again it's like having playing for like the Yankees and just because you're not the highest paid guy and all that, you're complaining, you're wanting the management to actually lower paying everybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

Even new tax policies, including the what scrapping of non.

[Doug]

Does that say domiciled tax status, which I have no idea what that means. And then there's anticipated future tax hike.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh. So new political party comes in. There was like oops, we got to bounce.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean that's crazy though. That's like a crazy mass exodus. I mean compared to anywhere else in the world. I mean that's wild.

[Adam Schaefer]

That is wild.

[Doug]

Here's another thing too. The US actually taxes people on their worldwide income. So if you're in a different country, the US will still find you and tax you.

[Adam Schaefer]

You mean if you're a US citizen?

[Doug]

If you're a US citizen, yes. Not all countries are that way though. So you can actually leave some countries and not have to pay tax.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. But if that's. If you keep your money, if you bring your money back over here, if you keep it there, you don't.

[Doug]

Well no, in the US you're still.

[Adam Schaefer]

Responsible for tax even if you keep it over there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why everyone becomes a citizen over somewhere else. That's why everyone goes in and goes to Dubai and they live in. Now they live in Dubai and that's. There has become a citizen over there and interesting pay to buy type taxes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Speaking of companies and entrepreneurship and all that stuff element continues to explode.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

And now they have a bunch of new flavors.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm digging the new pineapple flavor.

[Adam Schaefer]

I haven't tried it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because you drink it. It's good. It does. I'm not gonna lie, though. It does make me want to use some alcohol. And I want to see.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, gosh. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you tried it yet, Justin?

[Adam Schaefer]

I have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. I was gonna say it's tasty.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I over some.

[Justin Andrews]

I see what you're saying with that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

They have smaller cans now too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You can get the smaller, you know, kind of Red Bull size cans.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then they have pineapple, which is.

[Sal DeStefano]

What is it, half the dose? Is that what it is?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Thousand. It's 500.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a smaller amount.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you said the pineapple is really good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Really good. There's another flavor I didn't try. Didn't you try lemonade? Is it lemonade?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

How's lemonade?

[Adam Schaefer]

Really good.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I wonder why they didn't have lemonade before. That makes sense.

[Doug]

It's really actually one of my favorites.

[Adam Schaefer]

That would make a lot of sense. Interesting. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I bet you when they. I'm sure, especially a company like them, they. I'm sure they did their due diligence and surveyed and probably launched my favorite still grapefruit.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I haven't tried pineapple yet.

[Sal DeStefano]

Grapefruit's one of my favorites.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I like that.

[Justin Andrews]

My new. It used to be black cherry.

[Adam Schaefer]

Cherry.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I like. You know what black cherry was. Was for a minute, and I got tired of it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You just never did it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I think same thing happened to me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I. But I've definitely done way more grapefruit. I have not got tired of grapefruit. I have not got tired of lunch.

[Justin Andrews]

It's so refreshing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Those two. Yeah, they have. And black cherry. Maybe that's what it is. Black cherry had more of a sweeter taste to it, and so after a while, it wasn't as refreshing. Nothing is as refreshing as the grapefruit and the lime to me.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, so I gotta, I got. I'm gonna do a new vernacular or change or I'm going to change what I call my favorite undershirt, which has been historically called a wife beater. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

What are you gonna call it?

[Adam Schaefer]

Call it something different now. I'm. I was always resistant before because I hate that. I hate changing words, especially ones I grew up with in the 90s.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, God.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just because it's offensive.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you going for a rebrand right now, dude?

[Adam Schaefer]

So here's the deal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cracker Barrel.

[Adam Schaefer]

Cracker Barrel.

[Sal DeStefano]

Aunt Jemima, Come on, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's the deal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Washington Redskins. Who are you now, dude?

[Adam Schaefer]

Come on. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. Here's what's going on. So I get why some people don't like it. I like the Caucasians. I don't think it's a good thing to beat people or anything like that. So it's just what it was called when I was a kids, we grew up with.

[Sal DeStefano]

So let's hear it.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I finally heard a replacement that I like. That's why. Because all the replacements for any stain catcher call it. Yeah, come on, bro. Stop the racist stuff. Stop it. It's a rib tank that sucks. Rib cage. Undershir. Dumb, dumb. Not gonna do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Somebody said in the comments of one of my videos, my series are like, why don't you call it a wife pleaser? I'm like, I like that, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Pleaser.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm gonna call it a wife pleaser from now on. Don't squint your eyes, Doug. It's a great.

[Justin Andrews]

Makes everybody uncomfortable.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, well, yeah, you're gonna be uncomfortable either way. I'd rather be a wife pleaser. So I'm gonna start referring to my wife pleaser, which I think is also uncomfortable, but I don't mind the discomfort.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know if I like the rebrand.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why? I don't know if I get behind it.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's honest for me. At least I know when I. When I'm walking around in it. My wife's pleased. You thunder your thunder tank. Yeah, I like. I like thunder tank. Speaking about. Speaking of pleasing people, I'm gonna put you on the spot, Doug, because I'm gonna bring up an old story. Yeah, he is. I'm gonna bring up an old story about your birthday. Remember your birthday when your date. We were all saying nice things about you. Remember this? And I talked about quite.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's quite the giver.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, that's not what she said.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, what she said.

[Adam Schaefer]

I remember exactly. We were all going around saying nice things about Doug because Doug's a great. He's a great human being. Great man. And like, really, it was great. Doug was. His eyes were watering. All of us were emotional, talking about Doug, how much we love him. And then, you know, his date stands up, it's her turn, and she goes, yeah, Doug is such a great lover.

[Sal DeStefano]

She did say great lover.

[Adam Schaefer]

She said, he's a great lover.

[Sal DeStefano]

That could have been an ad for Joy Mode right there. You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schaefer]

That's Where I'm going. Doug, how do you like Joy Mode? Do you use it in that way or do you use it pre workout?

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that the secret sauce?

[Doug]

I've used it a couple times. I mean, it's, it's good. It's great as a pre workout.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think Justin and I use it more like that. I do use it.

[Justin Andrews]

I've given it to my brother in law.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I do use.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like the energy it gives me.

[Justin Andrews]

Which is awkward to.

[Sal DeStefano]

I use it for what it's supposed to be used for and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, it's a pre. Love.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

You still do that?

[Sal DeStefano]

I do. I'm not like all the time, but when there's, when there's like times when I know it's gonna go down that night and I'm like waiting for her to get ready up there and I'm like, yeah, no, I'm down in the kitchen. I'm down in the kitchen. Anyways, I. Where the Joy mode's at Inside my, In my.

[Adam Schaefer]

How much of a difference can you tell?

[Sal DeStefano]

I had to put like a percentage.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or number on it. Yeah. Like, let's say normally you want to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Put like inches on it.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, not like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Come on, come down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's say normally. Let's say normally you throw a wet washcloth on it, hang it off there. Should you get like a bath towel? Like, what's going on?

[Justin Andrews]

All right, boys, sound difference?

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, no, no. Okay. So I'm like, yes. Okay. I, I've. I've messed around with all the, the, the stuff, the prescription stuff. Right. So the Cialis, the. It's not, it's not quite on that crazy level. Anybody who's ever experienced that before, that's like, that's like almost uncomfortably.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure, sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Weird, you know, somewhere in the middle of that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. From where you normally would be to where that is. It's like, it's leaving the gym with a nice pump.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I like, I do, I do pre workout.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll give you a little. Probably more detail than you probably even want, but I'm gonna love this. When I'm. When I'm on like day three or four in a row, that's when I like to use.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because, I mean, everybody knows you've had it. If I've had a day or two. Yeah. If I've had a day. Day. A day off or two with my wife. Dude. Yeah. She just, you know, I'm saying, like, I'm.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know if it gets better than that. You know what I'm saying? But when it's day three, four in a row and like I'm. I mean we've. I'm tired.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not, I'm not for the electrolytes.

[Sal DeStefano]

That then it brings me back to what it was like on day one. So that's probably the best way for me to describe it. Anybody that can relate to having four or five days in a row what you feel like versus day one. It brings me back to day one on day five. There you go, Joy mode. There's a, that's an ad right there. That's what she looks like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Good stuff, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, good stuff. Doug loves it. All right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Anyway, I found this new category. Well, I haven't found it. My son found it. My, my 4 year old, he's about to turn 5 actually in a couple months. But anyway, he loves learning about. He loves learning about anything. Which by the way, this kid loves coming up to us. He couldn't be more, more my son sometimes he loves walking up to my wife and I or anybody and just throwing out facts, like, like just random facts. And he goes off and it's just hilarious and he won't stop. Like my wife's trying to get him to go to sleep and he like start doze off and he looks at, hey mom, did you know that during the Cretaceous period, like he'll go off on some weird things?

[Justin Andrews]

Does he have his own almanac series you bought him?

[Adam Schaefer]

We have books. He likes watching documentaries and he doesn't forget. Like if he's really into something or encyclopedia, I should say, he doesn't forget. So he loves this kind of stuff. But we, we were reading these books. I told you about those books. Did you get those from Max?

[Sal DeStefano]

Not yet. They haven't got them yet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, they're so good. It's the versus books, like, you know, polar bear versus grizzly or whatever. Like, yeah, should have had that, bro. They're so fun. That's the interesting stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm with them.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's so fun, right? So we were reading them and my son's like, do they have videos of this in like real life? So we go on YouTube and I find hunting videos because that's as close as I can get, right? Because you're not going to find a polar bear versus a lion video. Although that'd be cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Whoever's getting, or whoever organizing that's getting in trouble.

[Adam Schaefer]

For sure we don't have videos of, you know, what they did in the Roman empire. But anyway, you know, I'M finding videos of, like, polar bears hunting or polar bears hunting, like a walrus or whatever. He loves those videos. He loves, like, predators hunting, you know, prey. And he gets so mad when the predator fails. So if I find the wrong video, like, the polar bear's getting the walrus, but then he escapes. Ah. I wanted the polar bear to catch him. Find another one. Find me one where it's a successful hunt. So I have to type in there. Polar bear successful. Brutal. He loves it, dude. Oh, my God. Those are. It's so cool to watch.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is. It's so cool to watch the kids get. I mean, obviously this is my first go around, but to watch him get into things like. I mean, Max has been obsessed with storms now for a year now.

[Adam Schaefer]

That is fun.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, he just is. I mean, you're. There's so many names of storms. I didn't even know that, like, existed until him. Like, he's so into it. Like, he's. He would call something. I'm like, there's a. There's a fire tornado. Never even heard of a fire tornado before. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Superhero.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's. There's all these, these. All these crazy storms. And he's even getting. What we're working on right now is learning what states have. Have those. So I'm trying to incorporate a little bit of geography in there. So he kind of starts to lear the difference of the states while he's doing it. So it's. It's a little bit of a reach for him right now, but he's getting to the point.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you remember when you real. Well, maybe not you. Because you moved a little bit, but do you remember when you realized that our storms here are weak sauce? Some of the storms you see in other places.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Once I moved to Illinois and they actually had tornadoes. I was like, oh, no.

[Adam Schaefer]

And lightning storms.

[Justin Andrews]

We just don't really have lightning storms here either. Yeah, we have earthquakes, though.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I remember going to Florida, to Disney World, you know, when my older kids were real little. And I remember looking up at the sky because everybody started going to the. What's that? Cafe. Animal Cafe so far. What's that one Cafe. They have that Rainforest Cafe. Suddenly everybody was going in that direction. So I'm like, what's going on? And they're like, oh, storm's coming. And I look up at the sky and there's a wall of super dark, thick clouds. I've never seen that here in California. And it's moving towards us. And I'm like, is the World anyway, and it just. It passed over.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I remember growing up in California, and then in. When I was, what, seventh grade is when we went to Colorado and we lived in Divide, Colorado, which is like 10,000 elevation. And pikes Peak is in your backyard. And the lightning storms, I mean, I watched them strike in. On the ground in my neighborhood. Like Lily standing in my garage. And everybody's house. Every house has a lightning rod. Like every house, like, because it's that common that it's connecting to the ground that you just. You have to have a lightning rod on top of your house. And I remember standing in the garage and just watching it. And we're used to. You hear it first, then see it, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no, you see it first.

[Sal DeStefano]

You see it first. Right. And then it's like a delay of like seconds. Yeah. And you count the second. Yeah. Where when you see it, it's the same time. Which is. Is wild because I. Up until that point, I never haven't.

[Justin Andrews]

Talked about this yet, but, like the survivors of like a lightning.

[Sal DeStefano]

A long time ago, you brought that up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

A long time ago, you talked. I forgot what you talked about. But I know you've. You've talked about it before.

[Justin Andrews]

Just how it looks like the burns.

[Adam Schaefer]

Electricity went through them. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like little branches off of it. Almost like the Fibonacci. Kind of weird. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, there's something.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's been struck more than once.

[Adam Schaefer]

Some people have been struck many times.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know there's a couple people that survive. Like, what is the. That's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

What are you doing that you're getting struck by lightning stuff? I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. Look at that. Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

See, that looks crazy, Justin. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because it's almost like you could see these. Electricity went through their veins.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, exactly. I know that. I thought that was so trippy. Like, what a. That's way better than a tattoo, you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Know, it's way better.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, you got so many bragging rights with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so tough.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's the toughest scene.

[Adam Schaefer]

Where'd you get that artwork? Yeah, I. I actually. Adam, I don't know if you would be okay sharing this, but you. You shared a story with me yesterday that got me so emotional. You were brought up your son.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it really highlights.

[Sal DeStefano]

Don't make me cry.

[Adam Schaefer]

What a special kid.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, God. Yeah, that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's hard to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not to not tell that and not get emotional because of him. Well, that. First of all, he has. He's. He's special. He's every dad says his kid's special. I know that. Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but the story really is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, he, but he's. We. We've always have talked about how he has this weird gift that when we're in the room with a family and we could, you know, Katrina's family's huge. Everyone's heard me talk about all that stuff where there's 20, 40, 50 people there and as adults, you know, you know your family drama and you know your aunt or your cousin who's going through a divorce or had something, lost their job or as the adults, you notice that my son doesn't know any of that stuff because he doesn't. He's not around to hear that. And it's a trip that I'll know that like say about a sister in law or somebody. And here we are, show up, my son and us and my. In Katrina and I to a party of 20, 30 people and at one point he will gravitate over that person and just love on him. And it's a trip because that, that, that it could be someone in the family he doesn't even know or hasn't even really been around.

[Adam Schaefer]

That gift of just so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Crazy. Just any. And he loves all. And I don't think they even know that about him. Right. He just. We, Katrina and I know we talk about all the time anyways, it's kind of a known thing between Katrina and I. We don't really talk about it very much or share all the stories like that. It's like one of those things. I think his two parents just like, you know, we get. I feel like we get the gift to see it and everybody else can just either believe it or not believe it it. Well, I'm talking to my sister who is been really just ill going through it. She's got a lot of stuff going on. She watched him this last weekend and we were actually just on the phone, we were talking about something else and I was again talking about, oh man, it's crazy. Max did this thing and I'm sharing like this other, this intuition that he has. She's like, oh my God, brother, I forgot to tell you. She goes, the last night he spent the night with me, she goes, I had a really rough night. She goes, was three different times I was woken up in, in from my sleep and my mind started racing. I got all kinds of anxiety, just got emotional and like just this heavy stress on me. She goes, every time that happened, she goes, literally she was. I was just closing my eyes and trying to calm down. And a couple times I was in tears and she goes, max, dead in his sleep, would roll over and put his arm across my chest. And she goes, it. And then I, she goes, I broke down crying and, and looked up and thank God for that. And she goes, what was wild about it was not that it happened, but that it happened three separate times through the night. And each time it was.

[Adam Schaefer]

He just felt it.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so it's like he's.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's so crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Crazy stories like that. I have so many stories like that of him that he does this thing. And I know that one of the most attractive qualities about Katrina is Katrina has a gift like that. She has this ability. It's why so many people love her. She's so empathetic. I mean, I take so much, I try and learn so much from her to be that, be more of that, that. And to see it in my son as a child is just. It's a trip. Yeah. Trip to watch happen.

[Justin Andrews]

Love it.

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Doug]

Our first caller is Josh from Virginia.

[Adam Schaefer]

How's it going, Josh?

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up man?

[Josh]

Hey, how are y' all doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good.

[Adam Schaefer]

How can we help you?

[Josh]

Yeah, so this is my first time trying a nine day push, pull legs rotation where I do hypertrophy ppl strength ppl then a volume ppl. So each nine day block has all three phases built in. In the past, I've always done the more traditional style of the four week blocks. So four weeks hypertrophy, four weeks strength, four weeks volume. I train six days a week with one active recovery day. I'm not doing nine days straight. So my question is, would I see better results? Sticking with this new approach where all three phases repeat every nine days for 12 weeks, or is it more effective to dedicate the four weeks to each phase across the 12 week program?

[Sal DeStefano]

That's impossible.

[Josh]

My goal is to maximize performance and muscle growth.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's, that's Impossible to answer, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, this is a, this is.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're both. Either one is fine.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is a hair splitting. Hair splitting question. How long, how long you been consistent? Maybe we could, we could give you something that we think will give you some, some, some noticeable differences.

[Josh]

Yeah. So I, I've been consistently strength training now for about three years. I've lost 60 pounds within the last.

[Sal DeStefano]

Two, I believe it was.

[Josh]

So like I'm seeing plenty of results. So I just tried like trying different techniques and different strategies and I was just curious of if it really made a difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you're the differ only. You're going from a four week block to a three week block. But everything else is pretty much the same. It sounds like, you know, the only.

[Adam Schaefer]

Way to know Josh was something like with someone like you because you're in a good place right now, you're really consistent. You've been seeing great results and you can play with all these little tweaks and see how your body feels and how you respond. Now that's given. Or that's assuming diet and sleep and everything else is on point. Because if those aren't on point, we always go there first.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And that's also assuming if you've been really consistent, like you don't miss a workout and you've been lifting six days a week for a while. Oftentimes what gives you the best gains is to back down to like three days a week.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or, or switch. Like this is very similar to what you're used to doing. And so if you create a new stimulus. Yeah. Do something completely different. Get out of the push, pull legs, go to a full body dude. That you're gonna get more from. This isn't that novel to what you're. You're used to doing? So if you're. Which one is going to be better? Well, man, we're definitely splitting hairs on how similar these two training programs and blocks are. So if you wanted to get a stimulus that is going to give you more gains than what you're currently doing, it would, I would tell you to go way further away than what you're doing. Like something totally different and that's more likely to give you more of a stimulus, more results.

[Adam Schaefer]

How do you, how do you measure if you're progressing or not? Because you're saying you're getting good progress and gains. What, what are you looking at?

[Josh]

Yeah. So right now I'm getting back onto a lean bulk right now. So I'm starting to see strength gains again.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Josh]

Before it was Just leaning down. So just how I felt, how my clothes were fitting, how my weekly pictures were looking. But now, like I said, I'm trying to just gain back the muscle mass. So just seeing strength over weeks, you're.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'Re in a good, you're in a really good place because this is when you can, you can try different things and start to figure out what works best for your body. The one thing I would say that I would ask you to consider is are you training in different planes of motion? Are you avoiding developing imbalances? Because at this stage, when you're this consistent, you're seeing good progress and your training is getting advanced in the sense that you're, you're starting to tweak things like phasing and stuff like that. Yeah, you want to make sure you avoid overuse injuries and you know, you know, starting to develop, you know, pain, because that could really be a roadblock to someone like you. But I mean, have you tried a full body, three day a week routine within the last three years?

[Josh]

No, not full body. No, sir.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'd be surprised.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'd be surprised at how, especially on a bulk, at the strength gains and size gains you would see.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, and it's just far more novel from what you're currently doing. This, you're not really moving that far away from what you were already doing. So if you're looking for a novel stimulus.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. That, that would probably move things in the, in the right direction. How much total volume? Give me an idea how much total volume you're doing per body part for a week.

[Josh]

So actually the program I'm doing right now is the map split program. So that's a lot of volume.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Yes, sir.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a lot of volume. I think if you did a full body Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you did a combi, like a total amount of volume per body part around between 14 to 18 sets. So in other words, you would divide that up over the three days, you know, do the compound lifts, you know, a couple isolation movements. So you'd probably see better gains doing something like that because it's so different.

[Sal DeStefano]

So is this how this was? Were you following like a, a different program and then you purchased a maps program that's kind of like with the style that you were already doing or you liked. Is that how this went down?

[Josh]

So I've actually had a few programs from y'.

[Adam Schaefer]

All.

[Josh]

I started, I know this is kind of backwards, but I actually started with the aesthetics program.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Josh]

And then I also have the anabolic, I think That I got that one in like some package special y' all.

[Sal DeStefano]

Had a while back.

[Josh]

But the split one is the one that I've enjoyed the most.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I mean I like, I like lifting like that too. You would really benefit though from like performance or if you have. Have you done anabolic yet since you've bought it?

[Josh]

Uh, I have, but I have not done anabolic in a while, so.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And you do the three day a week version of that would be good. Anabolic Advanced would be another program that you could do that you could try. Yeah. But you know, when you're starting to. Here's the, the thing, like it's, it's hard to know what's going to move the needle the most with someone like you at this point. Generally it's, it's a, it's the, the bigger the difference, the, the bigger potential for the needle to move. Okay. But that being said, you're at this great place where have fun with your training and, and pay attention to how your body responds and then kind of see and now here's the rule. A lot of things work. Nothing works forever.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that's the thing to, to consider. You know, you're, you're at year three. Like this is like when things start to, to get more challenging to moving in the direction you want. So pay attention to like what. How your body responds. Okay. I see now when I do this kind of rep range, I seem to do best with it, but I got to move out of it right around here. These exercises seem to do best for me. Full body produces this feel. Splits produce this feel. Mobility. Man, if I don't do mobility every three months, like I start to hurt in these areas. And so this is where you start to figure things out for yourself and really start to individualize, you know, what your routine looks like. So. But you know what you're asking here? I mean, could move the needle, but I don't know, maybe.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Josh]

One thing I've noticed with it, and it could just be a mental thing. I do feel a little bit fresher doing it the way where I, you know, rotate between the hypertrophy volume and strength every three days. But like I said, that could just be a mental thing. I've only been doing it this way for about four weeks now. So.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean split's got so much volume that the thing you want to consider managing the most is recovery.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because it's such a high volume program. So if you feel like you're recovering better, then that's probably the Right direction.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And if you're getting stronger still. So, I mean, if not, if it's. If it's not broken, you know, I wouldn't change anything. But if you're. If you want something more novel, which would in turn probably produce more results than moving away from something that's like. When I go from program to program, I typically like to go from a program that's not like that program, if versus doing something that's similar to that program, just because I'm going to get more stimulus. But you still are early enough in your journey to Sal's point that you could just keep focusing on getting really strong. And if you like that split and it works well for you, and as long. As long as you're continuing to see results, we necessarily don't have to change it yet.

[Adam Schaefer]

The most valuable programs for you that are going to give you the widest brain breadth of experience and knowledge around muscle building, if that's the main goal that you have, you have split map Split, which is. You're already doing that. Maps anabolic, which is more of a traditional full body style workout. Symmetry, which will help with, you know, imbalances. You want to throw performance in once a year, otherwise you're going to start hurting yourself. Aesthetic is a different style of bodybuilding style training. Training. And then maps an anabolic advanced where you're gonna experiment with low volume, high intensity, you know, Arthur Jones style strength training. All of them are gonna really teach you something about how your body responds. All of them are different and will give you that value. And then as you continue going on, you'll really be able to develop kind of this. This intuitive feel on what really works for your body as you start to push the envelope.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Once, once a year. Kind of like generic advice we get because it sounds like the building muscle, sculpting your ph kind of the main focus. Just once a year, make sure you rotate through either symmetry or performance. As long as you do one of those programs every year, one time, that'll give you enough balance, address everything you need to, and then the rest of the time you can toggle between the ones that Sal just pointed out. Like, that'll be. That'll send you on your way real nice.

[Josh]

Okay, cool. Great.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, ma'. Am.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, brother.

[Adam Schaefer]

Calling in brother.

[Josh]

Yes, sir. Y' all have a good one.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you. Yeah, is this is. It's cool when you get to this place, when you're. You're consistent for years, then you start to mess around with things.

[Justin Andrews]

You get to play with it.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you have fun. And, you know, there's. When it comes to muscle building, you have the low volume, high intensity, you know, train to failure approach. You have the more traditional bodybuilding approach. You have kind of this hybrid of, you know, powerlifting, less exercises, more sets per exercise, maybe full body maps, anabolic type approach. Then you have like the, you know, let's make sure I don't get myself hurt approach, which you got to throw in there. And then you just kind of go in and out and you start to see how your body responds and how long it responds to each style of training and then you know what to look out for. And I think it's real fun.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I just want to address why it's impossible for us to answer that. We, you know, but, but especially that, that close of a programming, right? Like he's. They're so similar in, in nature, the way they're structured, that it's like, like giving him a clear answer of which one is better for him is way too hard to say. It's like you have to kind of go through that and determine that yourself. And I think, I think this happens, though, to all of us is that we tend to kind of keep gravitating toward, towards programs that are similar, that we love doing. And if you're looking to break through a plateau, one of the best ways to break through a plateau, and it doesn't sound like he was at one. So this is, you know, you know, not for him, but anybody else that is at a plateau is to do something that's more novel than what you've been currently doing, not something similar. And that's probably going to produce the greatest results for you.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Jeremy from Michigan.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, Jeremy.

[Sal DeStefano]

How you doing? Jeremy?

[Justin Andrews]

What's happening?

[Jeremy]

Not much. Good morning, guys. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.

[Adam Schaefer]

How can we help you?

[Jeremy]

So, just a little backstory for context. I've been working out into, in and out of fitness for the last 20 or so years. Usually my outs were related to injuries and things like that. That and then, you know, rebounding back, had a little bit of time off. And back in July, I started a strength protocol. Historically, it's been mostly about functional fitness. And I've got a pretty hefty goal of putting on eight pounds of muscle in the next 12 months. And everything with my protocol has been going fantastic. I feel good about my workouts. My nutrition is dialed in, but I'm just getting killed on sleep. I've been trying, I mean, literally Anything that I could think of, I've been trying and I'm. If I get 26 minutes of deep sleep, I am high five in the headboard, man. I mean, it's just, it's so rare for me to get a good night's sleep. I have my Apple Ultra, you know, that's my tracking device, if you will. And it's showing that, you know, some nights I'll get seven hours, but I'm maxing out at, you know, close to an hour of REM and it's usually 15, 20 minutes of deep sleep. But it's just starting to wear on me because now here we are, you know, at the end of September. I've been grinding pretty heavily. Yeah, I'm doing a four day split right now. I'm doing interval sprints on my fifth day and yeah, I'm just, I am looking for some advice on what I might do. I don't do caffeine, I'm not a smoker, I'm going to bed early. I mean, I've googled everything that you can think of, you know, what supplements I might take, that sort of thing. But I'm just still coming up short, man. I just don't know what more I can do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Jeremy, have you tried to scale back some of the training intensity and volume, William?

[Jeremy]

That's the only thing I've not tried. So I work out. I get up 5:30 every morning whether I want to or not. I can't tell you the last time my alarm woke me up. It's just kind of in my DNA. Right. So I get up early, do my workout early and start the day and I'm in bed typically by 9 o' clock is a later night for me. I start my wind down routine around 8 o', clock, you know, get rid of digital and I stop eating and drinking. Three hours before bed, drop the thermostat down to 62.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is easy, Jeremy, this is easy. You're over trained. Yeah, Classic.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you need to back off.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very classic over training. So if you wake up, if you wake up in the middle of night restless.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like you're awake.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got a restless feeling and you're. And then through. And then you're kind of tired but wired. You're over trained.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, copy. So I mean what's a, what's a realistic way to scale that back without going to zero?

[Adam Schaefer]

Right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you don't want to go to zero.

[Adam Schaefer]

You can, if you, look, you can scale it down if you want it to take longer, but if you want it to. If you want this to work faster, take the week off. Don't train for the next week.

[Sal DeStefano]

We did. We did a reset guide that'd be perfect for you to follow. So we did. Is that under.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. No, we got there. Yeah. It's a free guide.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mindpumpfree.com.

[Josh]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll have Doug send you a link.

[Adam Schaefer]

To take a week off when you get back into training. Cut the volume in half.

[Sal DeStefano]

Two days a week.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Go to a two day a week type of program. And do you have maps anabolic yet?

[Jeremy]

I do not.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, we'll send you maps anabolic. Follow that. Two days a week.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is very, very classic overtraining symptom. Classic.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. It feels like this ex. Go to bed exhausted, fall asleep hard, wake up in the middle of the night restless, and it's like hard to go back to sleep. And I can't go back to sleep. And then I kind of do and I kind of don't. Then I'm up and I'm wired, but tired.

[Sal DeStefano]

And context. Context matters, Jeremy. It's not like you may not feel like, like you're like the training is so crazy or way overdoing it. It's in the context of you're not getting good sleep, you're getting up early, you're not getting a lot of. And so therefore it is very much so over training. So if you were getting great sleep and rested and all the things, then, then maybe it would be okay. But I'm gonna guess that scaling back to two watch should notice a difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I'm gonna guess that you're just like putting your nose down and just going through the workouts. And I'm gonna make this happen no matter what. And I got this goal.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I mean that's, that's just me in a nutshell, regardless. So I don't do anything halfway. So maybe to my detriment sometimes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's what's going to happen. You're going to take the week off probably by day four or five or by the end of the week, you're going to sleep and you're like, okay, here we go. And then when you get back on, cut everything in half. And if you're in and you should exercise, appropriate amounts of exercise, of course produces results, strength, muscle, but it makes your sleep better. Yeah. Exercise does not make sleep worse. Unless it's too much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then that's the, that's the classic, classic, like, like easy symptom to notice right out the gates it's that right there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Especially since you're doing all the other things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I knew right away. I was reading your question as you were talking. Oh, he's over trained.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy]

Well, that's good to know. So then as I kind of tailor back into this, you know, doing the two day a week, what's the recommendation on how long I maintain that, or should I say never get back to that. Four days.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, listen to your body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, listen to your body because today may be the bird. And listen, you would be blown away by what you can do in two days, especially if you sound like you're doing a lot of the other stuff, like your diet. If your diet's in check, you're putting together a sleep routine, you have all this other stuff that you're managing so well, and two good days of full body routine. You can build a hell of a, of a physique by just doing that.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if we start to do that, you sleep well. I mean, maybe at one point if you're like, you're missing the extra workout so much, I go, all right, maybe try a third day, see how you feel. And then slowly, and then it's like, try a third day, stay that way for like three weeks and really determine on how you feel before you even consider going.

[Justin Andrews]

Strength is your indicator through this whole process.

[Adam Schaefer]

And here's the other thing too. As you get older, less volume is required to build muscle. Okay. So I train less now than I ever have and I get, you know, still good results. And it's probably gonna continue to scale down as this is true for everybody. So, you know, two days a week, full body strength training. Even if I had someone in their 20s, I'm gonna give them great results. A 50 year old guy is perfect, perfect. You're gonna build the most muscle and strength doing that. And the rest of the week, just stay active. That's it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Jerry, we did not. One thing we didn't ask you about or talk about. Just curious. Have you done blood panels and seen kind of hormone testosterone?

[Jeremy]

Ye. So back in July when I got started, just again, because I'm 50, I want to make sure I'm doing things right. So I linked up with the health and wellness kind of concierge company and they did a full, they took six vials of blood in a urine test on day one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Jeremy]

They did a full body scan. Back in July, I was about 12 and a half percent body fat. But that was using a, you know, one of the in touch or whatever. Those in body scan. So it wasn't like Dexa or anything. Yeah, they said my muscle mass was great, grip strength was great. Everything looked pretty dialed in and I've been pretty consistent with my diet for years. I mean, that's not a new thing for me. I mean, I'm kind of ridiculous about it. It's part of my adhd. I like to weigh my food, I like to track my macros. So I'm staying as dialed in. But that's just part of my life, so it's not a burden to me like some.

[Adam Schaefer]

Jeremy, you're going to see such great results with maps anabolic. Just. Just follow that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Where was I so convinced? Where was testosterone from for you? Are you good?

[Jeremy]

Yeah. So I did start TRT quite a while ago and it actually wasn't related to fitness. It was just related to absolute fatigue. And I had the sex drive of a three year old, so my doctor put me on that. And so I'm still a little under the normal range is what he is saying. I can't remember the number, guys. I think it was like 6 or 700.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're good. But, yeah, you do the right amount of volume with training, you're gonna blow your mind.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Your body's gonna respond like crazy. Yeah.

[Jeremy]

That's exciting. I just don't know what I'm going to do with all this extra time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Jeremy, I'd love to hear back from you because I have a feeling that once you do this recovery week, you go to your two day a week. I think within less than a month, you're going to feel and see a major difference already.

[Jeremy]

That would be awesome.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

Because, I mean, everybody knows that, you know, the muscles made in the bed, you know, and I just feel like I'm killing myself with trying to push out, but I'm not getting a reward of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

100%.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's pretty, pretty clear. I think almost 100% positive.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what it is. Yep.

[Jeremy]

And that's great advice. I appreciate you guys. Thank you for that. I am looking forward to giving that a try and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

My wife will be happy. I got extra time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. All right, brother.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Circle back. Let us know how it goes. Jeremy.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, I will, too.

[Jeremy]

God bless you guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, see you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. That's a classic. Classic. You're just, you're training hard. Everything was sound, and then you just wake up. Yeah. And you're restless. This happens. I talked to Mike Matthews about this. What's happening to him? I mean, everybody I've talked To so many people. People, it's one of the first signs and it literally feels like that, like you go to sleep, you're tired, you wake up and you're like, why am I awake? And then you're restless.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, this is especially a guy like that who's got this, you know, he's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, he's got the personality.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. He's doing it all already. It's like the. What he just needs to do is less so crazy because I know that sounds so counterintuitive for most people is just like. And, and maybe his workouts aren't even that crazy. That's what people need to understand. But it's in the context of what they are.

[Adam Schaefer]

I guarantee that.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, he said, based on how he was describing it, what kind of mentality.

[Adam Schaefer]

He has, like interval training and I'm grinding to him. He's also going hard.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Lindsay from Florida.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hi, Lindsay.

[Sal DeStefano]

How you doing, Lindsay?

[Lindsay]

Hey, how are you?

[Adam Schaefer]

Good, how are you? How can we help you?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good.

[Lindsay]

First of all, I want to say thank you for, you know, taking my question and letting me, you know, be on here. This is super, super cool. I'm going to go ahead and read my question so I don't try to ask you like five other ones. I'm a 34 year old mom of twins that were born in December and a former head coach at orangetheory Fitness. I've always struggled with weight, but Recently I've lost £50 on a DLP one while also starting HRT. I'm five' nine, £153 and I'm pretty happy with my weight. But I still have a lot of visceral fat and underdeveloped areas, especially my glutes, which I've never been able to grow no matter how hard I've tried. I'd like to shift my focus from weight loss to body composition, reverse dieting, building muscle, maybe even do my first bulk. But where I'm kind of caught up is with my GLP1 and HRT and losing weight so quickly. I kind of don't know where to start with maintenance calories, tapering off the medication, and how to set myself up to actually build muscle. What do you guys suggest as my next step?

[Sal DeStefano]

You're still on a full dose of GLP1.

[Lindsay]

I'm titrating down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Lindsay]

So they had put me up to five really quickly, which they shouldn't have because I lost like 20 pounds in my first month.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Lindsay]

So I started working with a hormone doctor versus a primary Care and I'm titrating down, so I'm now on three, and I'm working myself down to under a standard starting dose and then probably eventually off pretty quickly.

[Sal DeStefano]

How. How is the current appetite where you're at now? Good.

[Lindsay]

I feel like I'm getting the same benefits as I was with a 5, just without the side effects. I don't really have food noise. My appetite. Appetite's pretty controlled, so I feel pretty, pretty good right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you able to reverse diet? Like, have you counted calories and are you tracking it all to kind of know where your macros are?

[Lindsay]

Yeah, so I think I'm kind of working myself into a reverse diet now. I was eating at like 1700 calories on my GLP1. I was still trying to be mindful of eating enough, so I was trying to work up to like 2000, maybe 2100 calories, which is what I started yesterday.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Lindsay]

But I don't know if that's kind of what you guys would suggest. My maintenance calories are a lot lower now than they were before.

[Josh]

Of course.

[Sal DeStefano]

Of course. No, I think that's. I think that's great. And then how's your training? Are you still. You're not still doing orange theory stuff, are you? Are you? Okay, so.

[Lindsay]

No, I'm strength training five days a week, which I'm curious your thoughts on that because maybe that's a little bit too much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. In the context of where you're at, like, you're so low calorie, you don't need to be training that that much in order to see the results you want. So. So less would be more in this situation. Something like a MAPS anabolic program would probably be more ideal or even like Muscle Mommy because it has more glute focused in that if you. You mentioned glutes is a primary focus.

[Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, like, Muscle Mommy would probably be a good choice. And then where you're at, diet wise, as far as reversing the calories is. Is smart. That's. That's probably right where we probably would have put you.

[Lindsay]

Okay. Yeah. Because I know you guys answer questions like this all the time. I guess it was just kind of hard for me to figure it out because. Because I've lost those £50 since the end of April. So I've lost it very quickly and a lot quicker than I wanted to. I tried to come in here being super mindful on the GLP1 and weighing myself and stuff. It was just one of those things that I would be at the same weight forever, and then literally one day drop like five pounds, and I'd be like, oh, my God. Because, you know, I was trying to lose like a pound a week, but I have lost very, very quickly. So I know I kind of put myself, myself in a bad spot to reverse diet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Lindsay, can I ask you some more questions? Yes. Okay. So you had twins in December? Yes. Okay. Were you on fertility treatment in order to get pregnant?

[Lindsay]

So I got pregnant with my twins the first month. I was on Letrozole. So that was my first medicated cycle, but I hadn't moved to like IUI or IVF or anything. But that was a medicated cycle to get my twins. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. And then before that, were you. How. How long were you trying to get pregnant?

[Lindsay]

A little over a year. So we, we have three children. We got pregnant very quickly with my three year old, and then we dealt with the secondary infertility, and I wasn't my healthiest during that time, which didn't help my cause going into the pregnancy either.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then you had the babies in, in December. When did you start the GLP1 and HRT?

[Lindsay]

I started the GLP1 at the end of April, and I started HRT in July.

[Adam Schaefer]

So four months postpartum, they had you go on. Why did they have you start HRT so quickly?

[Lindsay]

So I don't. No one really had me started. It was probably more me, and maybe I did it too quickly. I know someone who runs like a hormone clinic that I trust and I've known for a long time, and I started working with her in July.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Lindsay]

I mean, she knew my full background of having the twins and being on a GLP1. I asked her if I was doing too much too soon, and she said that, that getting on HRT and working with the GLP1 at the same time could be beneficial. So I went ahead and moved forward.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Yeah. Because that was really quick. Postpartum and a GLP1. I was really quick to get on a GLP1 postpartum as well. And I'm assuming you stopped breastfeeding. So you stopped breastfeeding, then went on these things?

[Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah. My babies are formula fed right now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I would take it easy. I mean, you're, you're still, you're not even a year postpartum. And most, most women. So there's a lot, lot of. I hate social media because it puts out this just terrible lie that, you know, four months after you have your babies, you get back to whatever the baloney it's bull crap. I've trained a lot of women. I've trained athletes and women who are like, really fit and you're not yourself for like two years.

[Josh]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

That doesn't mean you'll get back and, you know, you don't start getting in shape and sort. But it takes like two years to get back to who you are. So, you know, HRT, GLP1. I think that, you know, was a little quick. I think it would be good, good to scale down the GLP1 so you can reverse diet. I think you're moving in the right direction. More calories, less training. Five days a week is just. It's weight. You'll do better with maps, anabolic, regardless. And then, you know, go up to 20, 100 calories. You're probably not going to see any fat gain. You'll just get stronger and then move up another 200 calories. And every few weeks you could jump up and I would. You're probably going to end up somewhere around 2700 calories.

[Lindsay]

Yeah. Okay.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Lindsay]

No, I probably jumped the gun a little too quick on the GLP1.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Lindsay]

Which is crazy because I'm not even. Obviously people care about aesthetics to some degree. Right. That wasn't my main concern. It was like I felt tired and terrible all the time with my three under three. And then I was starting to ache in places I've never ate before. And I started trying to work out and do everything. I've lost weight before twice. Like £50 or more.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Lindsay]

And the things I had done were not working at all. So I guess I moved pretty quickly to my GLP1 along with labs like my cholesterol and triglycerides and all of that were high. So I moved towards it. But when I say it out loud that it was four months postpartum, it kind of sounds a little.

[Adam Schaefer]

Was this baby weight that you were losing? Like, what were you at before the. You got pregnant?

[Lindsay]

I was probably closer to like 185. When I was a coach at Orange Theory, I hung out around 160. But like I said, during my secondary infertility, I was. I was still working out, but my diet was definitely not that great. So I was a little higher than usual.

[Adam Schaefer]

Got it.

[Lindsay]

So I went into my pregnancy a little heavier than I normally would.

[Adam Schaefer]

Take your time is the only advice I'm gonna give you. Yep.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because even on hrt, if you push too hard with diet and training and all that stuff, especially with, you know, three kids, two of them being under, you know, a Year. So I know sleep is can. You know, it's gonna be on and off type of deal. Like, your body will crash if you. If you push. So just take it easy. And you'll get better results if you take it easy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Lindsay, did you. Did you see the muscle mommy group that we just launched?

[Adam Schaefer]

Launched.

[Lindsay]

I heard about it because I listen to your guys podcast all the time, but I haven't, like, looked into it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You gotta get it. You gotta get in there. Yeah. I mean, we just had Dr. Lauren on there last week who's all about women's hormones. And the community is not just women falling muscle mommy. It's just women who want to build muscle.

[Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's 100 centered around ladies.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have two trainers in there that run it, and so you have access to really good trainers, and they could help with this whole process of reverse dieting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Lindsay]

Awesome. Yeah, it's. That's what I need because I. I've been doing in body scans, and my in body scan says I'm at like a 19.5 body fat. But, like, if my stomach does not look like that, like my. It's my stomach problem, which is what I'm like, mainly. I know it needs to be a body composition thing at this point.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got to build.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Build muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everything. Everything's focused around building a year.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's all you should do is build muscle. I wouldn't let you cut for a year. I would just get you strong.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wrong. But you're doing the right things. Coming down on the GLP1, reverse dieting. This is. This is the right path. Scale back. We'll send you over maps anabolic.

[Adam Schaefer]

So we'll send that link for muscle Mommy. Yeah, I think it would be beneficial.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then get in there so I can see. Well, we'll be in there too. So I'll be talking to everybody that's going on in there. So let's see you in there today if we can.

[Lindsay]

Okay. Yeah, for sure. I really appreciate it. Thank you guys so much. I kind of work so hard to get to this point, and then I'm like, oh, my God, what did I do?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no, you're good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're right.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're on the right path now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Lindsay]

Awesome. Thank you so much, Lindsay.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, Lindsay.

[Lindsay]

Bye.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm so surprised that somebody.

[Adam Schaefer]

A surprise that a doctor would recommend HRT and a GLP one 4 months post.

[Sal DeStefano]

I actually. I actually thought she's talking like the previous December, not like this December just passed by like, I was like, oh, wow, very quick.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's just wild. And that's why I asked if she did fertility before because that will affect your hormones. And I'm like, okay, did they did. Was she on HRT before? Because then I'd understand continuing it. But no, she went on fertility. You got to wait till things balance out. Four months postpartum, that's get some healing. Yeah. What are we doing that's, you know, unless there's an emergency situation, I don't know. You know, I'm obviously not a doctor, but to me that seems very, very quick.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. She would need to be like dangerously low to make sense to do something like that. And you need to do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

In that situation for sure. So both, both GLP1 and HRT both fat too fast in that situation. But I mean, we got, we got a hold of her now. She's scaling the GLP one down. She needs to reverse dive, scale back on the volume training, and I think she's going to rebound nicely.

[Doug]

By the way, the link to that group ismusclemommy movement.com.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thanks, Doug.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Jason from Nevada.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's up, Jason?

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, Jason?

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey guys, how you doing?

[Adam Schaefer]

How can we help you?

[Jason]

A longtime fan of the show. I love everything you guys do do. It's great to meet you finally.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you.

[Jason]

Yeah. My name is Jason. I'm 48, about 6 foot 2, weigh 185 pounds and about 19% body fat. I've been strength training for about the past seven years, initially through CrossFit, but now I'm more focused on traditional lifting. I also do some yoga and I try walking as much as I can. I'm a business owner, a husband and father to three kids. I have boy, girl, twins that are 11 years old and a nine year old daughter. So time's always a challenge for me, but fitness remains a priority. What's unique about my situation is that when I was 17 years old, I had an enlarged lymph node in my neck and it was surgically removed. During that procedure, my spinal accessory nervous was severed, resulting in significant long term damage to the nerve and leaving my left trapezius muscle essentially useless. For years, I avoided strength training, thinking it wouldn't be effective. But fortunately, when I started lifting in my early 40s with CrossFit, I haven't looked back. I've seen amazing improvements and I feel stronger and healthier than ever. That said, though, I do have a couple of issues. I'd love Your insight on one is regarding the trap injury. So I have muscle imbalance and issues with my aesthetics. And so the surrounding muscles have to overcompensate. And so I noticed the asymmetry. Are there any specific exercises or strategies that you guys would recommend to improve balance and maintain aesthetics despite this permanent limitation? I did give some pictures of that imbalance. I'm not sure if you guys have access to that. The other question I do have is that I have suffered from chronic sleep problems my entire life. Rarely do I get seven hours of sleep. Typically I get about six and a half hours a night. Sleep is three for me, though sometimes I'll go four to five hours. I'll go weeks, which is four, five hours of sleep. I've explored everything to fix this problem. Therapy, sleep hygiene, medication. Currently I take magnesium, glycine and melatonin. My big question though is with the sleep problem that is chronic for me, it's difficult for me to fix is how much is my lack of consistent sleep quality limiting my muscle growth. Is it possible still to make meaningful progress even with the compromised sleep? Appreciate you guys advice and look forward to hearing what you guys have to say.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, so with the sleep stuff, yes, you can make progress. Yes. It also hampers things. So it does make it difficult. But it's been a long time time. Sounds like you've really tried to figure it out and kind of are having a tough time with figuring out what it is exactly. Hormone replacement therapy might be the next place I would look to see if hormone. Hormone changes can help. You could also look at a peptide called deep sleep inducing peptide. Some people have found success with that, with increasing the. At least the deep sleep when they go to bed. As far as the trap is concerned, with the severed nerve, you don't have connection to those muscles. So there's not much we could do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

What I would recommend, however, is stem. And I would use that throughout the day just to keep them. So stem should at least get that muscle to fire. Have you ever tried stem on the trap or their sternoclamastoid muscle?

[Jason]

Yeah, I have tried it. I have that. Forget the name of it, but I do have the device that tries to fire that. Fire it. But I don't know if it really even works, to be honest. Like, I've tried it a little bit, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Does the muscle fire when you put the patch on and turn it on?

[Jason]

Yeah, I don't. I don't think it does. I think that only the rhomboid does and the other muscles in that area.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. So I would. That's the only thing I would say to try is to see if you can get them to fire. Otherwise, what you actually want is typically what we tell people to avoid, which are compensations. But you need compensations because those. There's. There's two muscles in particular that are not working. And so when you're. When you're training your body, try to have good form, one side's gonna look a little different than the other. But in your case, that's okay. We want those compensations so that we avoid too much pain and injury.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because of that. Would you keep him more bilateral, so. Because he needs them. The other side to work with it, or would you recommend, like, symmetry for a while?

[Adam Schaefer]

Both. They're both gonna be good. Bilateral is gonna be good because the compensations. Unilateral's gonna be good because compensation's gonna be there anyway. So you would train just like anybody, but you're. You're gonna have a little bit of a difference on one side. Especially with things like rowing, pressing, you might notice a little bit difference. But you want compensations, which you probably already have. It's been a long time, right? When did you have that surgery?

[Jason]

I was 17. So it's 30 years.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You've got compensations that are already there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so stim is the only thing that I've ever had. You know, clients that have used that have helped a little bit bit. But it. It's interesting because sometimes the muscle will fire, sometimes it won't. So you could look at more expensive stem machines that are stronger to see if that'll get the muscle to fire. And you could try using it more consistently to see over time if you start to get that muscle to fire, because it's a. It's an external signal. It's not coming from you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You don't have any. Do you have any pain or any issues because of the imbalance like that, or is it just more of an aesthetic thing for you?

[Jason]

I do have some pain. It's not constant, but it comes and goes. I'll get, like, some shooting pain down, like, the back, left side of my arm, underneath my armpit. I find, though, that if I continue to work out, it's always better. And so I noticed, though, if I focus on just front muscles, that the pain gets worse. So I have to do deadlifts and bench pressing to kind of keep my balance on both sides of the body. It seems to help. Help reduce and limit the pain.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you get any mid trapezius activation or is it just upper trapezius activation? That doesn't happen.

[Jason]

You know, that's the thing is, like, the upper trap definitely doesn't work. The lower and mid trap. I might be getting something there, but I can't really tell. It still feels like it's awkward, but, like, when I look at it visually, I. I don't get. Sometimes I've seen the injury with people, like, really bad winging of scapula.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And my winging is. Isn't super pronounced, so I might have some.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of cedar row.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you got your. Your. Your serratus muscle still works, so that's stabilizing the scapula. Your rhomboids are still good, so that's helping to stabilize things. You're probably getting some mid trapezius activation. The sternochlomastoid muscle is also not working, but you have other muscles there that help support the neck. And, you know, your imbalance doesn't look that bad. Honestly, I. I could only really tell with the picture that you sent where you're.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because he told us to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're looking right at it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but it doesn't look that. That pronounced. But the standing one, I couldn't tell if. If you just said, hey, do you notice anything? I wouldn't. I wouldn't have noticed anything. So. But keep. Keep training as normal. I like the two to three days a week that you're currently doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you ran. Are you running any of our programs?

[Jason]

I did you guys. As your legacy program, the anabolic.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Maps 15. Maps might be.

[Jason]

Really try.

[Adam Schaefer]

Mat 15 would be good for you. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

With the lack of sleep that you had mentioned, I think that would be good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You might experiment with the volume of.

[Adam Schaefer]

That would be good. Yeah. Mat 15 might be great for you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, send that to him. That one.

[Jason]

It's hard for me to fit in long workouts, that's for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. You'll like it there, dude. You'll like it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's very convenient.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you're doing a good job, Jay. You're doing a good job with what you're doing. Cool.

[Jason]

Appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you got it, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. We'll send that over to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Great.

[Jason]

I appreciate it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thanks. Thanks so much. You got it. Yeah. When you. I mean, nervous. Severed.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's nothing you can do.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I'm like, you can't and can't.

[Justin Andrews]

Add mobility drills to reconnect. It's just like one of those.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, and it's Sal's point, too. This is opposite advice than we normally give. Right. We want to try and fix that. We where you want to reinforce the composition. You want those compensations when you don't have a muscle. If you didn't have a muscle firing or working and that you can't fix.

[Justin Andrews]

That take over the function.

[Adam Schaefer]

The thing too is when you have nerve damage, although his was severed. So that's a whole another ball game. But you know, I've had people with who've had some nerve damage. If the closer it is to the injury, the higher the odds are that you could get some function back. The longer, I mean his was severed at 17, he says 30 years ago. I know it's gone.

[Justin Andrews]

The quicker you get to working on it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's gone. They're more likely now if he's getting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some lower trap activation though, I mean I would probably double down on a lot of rowing exercises to develop that at least. And so I think that would just that would help support scapula and aesthetically help a little bit.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

So like seated row barbell rows become some of my favorite movements if I'm him.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shoot, shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.