2713: Why It’s So Hard to Stay Fit (and What to Do About It)

Summary

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2713: Why It’s So Hard to Stay Fit (and What to Do About It)

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: October 24, 2025

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Main Theme Overview

In this engaging episode, the Mind Pump hosts dive deep into the systemic and cultural reasons it’s so hard to stay fit in modern society. They dissect environmental, psychological, and social barriers to maintaining good health, highlight how technology and social norms steer us toward unhealthy behaviors, and offer practical, science-backed advice for those seeking lasting change. Throughout, they mix humor, personal stories, and sharp insight to challenge popular fitness myths and help listeners understand what it actually takes to stay healthy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Default State: Why Staying Fit Is So Difficult

• Modern society incentivizes poor health:
  • Sedentary lifestyles and easy access to calorie-dense, hyper-palatable processed foods are the societal default (“In modern societies, the default is poor health. Obesity is the norm. Bad health is the norm. Immobility is the norm.” — Sal Di Stefano, 03:09).
  • Technology innovations—from food delivery to online shopping—remove daily movement from our routines.
• Environmental context shapes health outcomes:
  • City design affects movement: Walkable cities like San Francisco have lower obesity rates than more car-dependent ones (06:19).
  • Weather, urban sprawl, and cultural expectations further limit organic movement.
• Generational shifts in food and activity:
  • Multiple generations have now grown up with ultra-processed foods as a norm, further ingraining unhealthy habits.
  • “Now you grow up and your relationship to food is built around convenience and hyper-palatability.” (Sal, 06:25)

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2. Social & Psychological Barriers

• Fighting social norms:
  • Eating healthy and being physically active is now so unusual that it feels socially isolating and rebellious.
  • “You feel you're at a place, you really do feel like if you eat really healthy... it’s so out of the norm to eat, you know, whole natural foods.” (Sal, 10:17)
• Peer and relationship influence:
  • The people closest to you strongly influence your health choices. It’s difficult to sustain fitness if your social or family circle doesn’t value the same habits (Adam, 10:43).
  • Often, sustaining health requires changing friend groups or finding supportive partners.
• Being a ‘rebel’ for your health:
  • “You have to realize that you're going to be a rebel... you kind of stand out. And I don't mean stand out because you look fit and healthy. I mean stand out because you live differently than everybody else.” (Sal, 14:44)

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3. The Need for Structured Effort & Lifestyle Change

• Planning and injecting activity:
  • Movement and healthy eating no longer happen organically—they must be deliberately planned and structured.
  • “You have to inject activity because it won’t happen naturally... you have to move outside of the norm.” (Sal, 12:19)
• Long-term thinking:
  • Sustainable change hinges on thinking in terms of lifelong habits, not quick fixes (“How can I do this for the rest of my life?” — Sal, 23:49).
• Delayed gratification:
  • The ability to value long-term results over short-term pleasure is essential—not just for fitness, but as a life skill.
  • Adam and Justin discuss parenting strategies to help kids develop delayed gratification (21:25).

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4. Technology and Its Double-Edged Sword

• Outsourcing activity and thinking:
  • Not only are we outsourcing movement, but we increasingly outsource cognitive tasks (e.g., navigation, decision-making) to technology, leading to mental “atrophy.” (Sal, 29:31)
• Kids and screen time:
  • A lack of unstructured time and daydreaming, replaced by constant digital entertainment, may have unknown long-term negative effects (Adam, 26:04).
• AI concerns:
  • Discussion of recent legislation in California around AI chatbots for kids, and how technology is outpacing our ability to judge or manage its impact on youth (Sal, 27:20).

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5. Health & Fitness Data and Trends

• Physical decline data:
  • Average grip strength among young men has dramatically dropped compared to decades ago; women's strength has slightly increased due to more sports participation (Sal/Adam, 13:51).
• Federal activity guidelines:
  • More activity than current minimum recommendations significantly reduces early death risk, but most people fall into extremes of inactivity or over-exercising (Sal/Adam, 39:46).
• Protein for satiety:
  • High-protein diets help food satisfaction and appetite control up to a point; most people would benefit from eating more protein (Sal/Adam, 51:30).
• Movement isn’t just gym-based:
  • House chores and daily movement can be as valuable as gym sessions, especially for those with sedentary desk jobs (Adam, 37:19).

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6. Practical Advice and Philosophical Takeaways

• You must redefine ‘normal’:
  • Achieving and maintaining fitness now means living differently from ‘average’; you have to design a life around movement and meaningful nutrition choices.
• Health = Freedom:
  • Investing in structure and discipline yields greater freedom; poor health is far more restrictive (Sal, 19:21).
• Success comes from relationships and community:
  • Build social support into your fitness efforts and realize that resisting peer pressure is a skill that pays dividends.
• Take the long view:
  • Approach health and fitness with a “rest of your life” mindset (Sal, 23:49).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the challenge of being fit in modern society:

  • “If you want to be fit and healthy, you have to literally go outside of your way to structure your life in a way that is not… normal.”
    — Sal Di Stefano, 08:46

• On peer and family influence:

  • “One of the main things that helps me stay healthy and fit is I have a partner who cares about it equally.”
    — Adam Schaefer, 10:43

• On being sustainable:

  • “How can I do this for the rest of my life? ... The fail rate to keep that goal is even higher. So it’s got to be in the context of forever.”
    — Sal Di Stefano, 23:49

• On technology atrophying human abilities:

  • “If you outsource activity, your muscles atrophy... The brain also atrophies in a sense where if you outsource thinking… your brain will literally lose its ability to think.”
    — Sal Di Stefano, 29:31

• On social media and fitness careers:

  • “There’s a lot of badass trainers you don’t even know about, because they’re not on social media.”
    — Adam Schaefer, 68:26

• On delayed gratification as a life skill:

  • “Delayed gratification is countercultural these days, I feel. I mean, across the board, people just want instant.”
    — Justin Andrews, 19:42

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:09 – Why poor health is society’s norm
• 06:19 – How city design and environment affect obesity rates
• 10:17 – Social isolation of healthy habits
• 13:51 – Data on declining grip strength
• 14:44 – “You have to be a rebel” to be healthy
• 19:21 – “More freedom” is found through discipline and structure
• 21:25 – Teaching delayed gratification to kids
• 23:49 – Fitness must be approached as a lifelong change
• 29:31 – How technology atrophies physical and mental skills
• 39:46 – Exercise dosage and longevity
• 51:30 – Protein’s role in satiety
• 68:26 – The myth that you must be a social media influencer for a fitness career

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Listener Q&A Highlights (Post-Content Segment)

• Form without a mirror/trainer (56:40):
  • Use mirrors or record yourself to ensure proper technique, especially if new.
• Choosing a personal trainer (59:41):
  • Prioritize likability, a thorough assessment process, experience, and alignment with your training values.
• Top rotational moves for bodybuilders (62:59):
  • Windmill, pressing with rotation (e.g., kettlebell or dumbbell), medicine ball tosses; prioritize moves with real-world carryover and dynamic speed.
• Is fitness a viable career without social media clout? (67:01):
  • Yes! Most great trainers aren’t influencers; focus on mastering your craft and networking locally.

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Final Takeaways

• Society is structured against your healthy living—choose to be different.
• Build supportive relationships and be ready to stand out for positive change.
• Embrace that fitness success is a lifelong, evolving journey requiring structure, planning, and mindset shifts.
• Don’t be seduced by quick fixes, hacks, or what’s trending on social media.
• Ultimately: “If you want to be fit and healthy, you have to live in a way that is not average, not the norm… You’re going to be a rebel.”

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For more details, advice, and to join the Mind Pump community, follow @mindpumpmedia on Instagram or visit mindpumppodcast.com.

Transcript

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[Mind Pump Intro Host]

If you want to pump your body.

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And expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal Destefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we picked questions off of Instagram mindpump Media. That's where you can post them and we answered them. But this was after our intro. Today's intro is 53 minutes long. Now in the intro we talk about muscle gain and fat loss. We talk about diet, nutrition, family life. It's a great time. Again, if you want to post the question, go to Mind Pump Media. Do it under the qua meme. That's Q U A h. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Legion. Today we talked about their egg white protein powder. So if you can't have dairy, go with egg white protein. It's just as high quality. Great for building muscle, great for satiety. Go check them out. Go to bylegion.com that's B-Y-L-E G I O N.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump and get a discount. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi. Today we talked about their green juice. This is micronutrients with greens that are ground down to taste delicious and to be bioavailable. It's a feel good green powder you take daily. Go check them out. Get yourself 20% off. Go to Organifi.com mindpump that's O R-G-A-N-I-F I.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump to get 20% off. Our sale this month is Maps GLP1. This is a workout program with nutrition advice, supplement advice, lifestyle advice. All of it for people who are on a GLP1 like tirzepatide, semaglutide, ozempic, wegovy. Maximize fat loss, keep the muscle. Don't lose muscle on a GLP1 with this program. Go check it out. Go to mapsglp1.com, use the code GLP50 for the discount. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to mypumpstore.com that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

In modern societies, the default is poor health. Obesity is the norm. Bad health is the norm. Immobility is the norm. Why is it so hard? Why is it so difficult to be fit and healthy? We're going to break down the reasons why this is so challenging, and maybe you'll find the solution for yourself.

[Justin Andrews]

Why, Sal?

[Sal Destefano]

Why?

[Justin Andrews]

Sounds like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I can't wait to hear what you're going to propose the reason.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, think of some of the reasons why it's so prevalent, why poor health is so prevalent. Why it's the more common thing, like being fit and healthy. You stand out because. Well, precisely because it's not common.

[Justin Andrews]

You're looking for.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, because it's not cultural.

[Sal Destefano]

All of it.

[Adam Schaefer]

It takes work, effort, discipline, sacrifice. All things that are challenging for people.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I would say.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's easier. It's easier to be sick, lazy, obese. I mean, it's easier.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I think we.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's not easier long term.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But in the. In the short term, it's easier.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, in the intro, I kind of said it right. It's the default and the like. I'll point to one thing, right? We've innovated so well at reducing activity. So much innovation goes into reducing the amount of movement that you need to do. Like, I'll use a very simple modern example, like a very recent example. Food delivery services. Food delivery services. Now eliminate the need. The. The need to actually get up, walk to your car and drive somewhere. Yeah. Where you can have anything, buy now button on Amazon. Amazon's another one. I, you know, going shopping required you to move a little bit. Now, I don't know what the data is now, but I wonder what percentage of shopping now is done online versus.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you think in, in another, like, let's say, let's see, let's say processed foods were around over a hundred years ago, but we did things the same way. Do you. Obviously it has a lesser impact. How less do you think it's negligible. Do you think that. No. Do you think. Or do you think processed foods have an even more impact than technology? It's obvious. The combination of the two was the silver bullet. Right? I mean, that was it. The fact that we, we reduced daily movement and activity so dramatically in such a short period of time through technology while simultaneously making food unbelievably palatable and accessible and inexpensive like that. That's, that's it, right?

[Sal Destefano]

That's the big combination. But yeah, no obesity, you could largely place that at the feet of processed food. And then weakness and poor health. A lot of that has to do with inactivity. Even the way we design our cities. You know, it wasn't that, it was a long time ago. Okay, but it wasn't that long ago where cities were not designed for you to not walk or move. Now you, A lot of cities are suburbs and you live in your house here. And then if you want to get anywhere, you have to drive to where they go. If you look at the data on people's health and obesity in older cities or cities that were more designed around, let's say, horse and buggy, where you just, for example, San Francisco, here is a good example. The average person steps. Takes more steps in San Francisco than they would, let's say, in a place like San Jose.

[Adam Schaefer]

We should be able to look up that right there. Like what percentage of people in San Francisco are obese in comparison to people that in San Jose that are.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, that's. Yeah, you should definitely look that up on what the average steps are. So we've, we've, we've essentially innovated our way into less and less and less movement and then food. Now we are now generations deep in this culture of eating diets that are heavily processed, which introduces a whole new problem, which is if you grow up in this environment of ultra processed food now you're, you're kind of fighting uphill, right? Because now you grow up and your relationship to food is built around convenience and hyper palatability. And so what happens is, you know, I Talk about this when I get onto the podcast and they ask me questions that are similar. The relationship that people develop around food really just values the palatability and its convenience more than anything else.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's relatively the same. 18%. Oh, San Jose is worse. Yeah, well, that's right. Obesity rate, to your point. Yeah. San Jose would be worse.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no. San Francisco has the second lowest obesity rate in the country. So there you go. Underneath it. This is attributed to the city's infrastructure, which make it one of the most walkable and bikable cities.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, well, there you go.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I remember seeing a stark contrast when I went to Chicago. And it's not necessarily like, the structure of the city because it did have, like, good parks and had good, you know, walkways and things for people to do, but the weather was so. That's crazy. Yeah. Which was a big factor for people even getting outside.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I mean, I would also, I. I think that we are in the middle of another, you know, techno technological revolution that is going to hurt us that way too. Which is if you look out the amount of time people are spending on their smartphones today versus just a decade and a half ago.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, that's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's not only like all the other things like the Uber and the obvious, those. The door dash and Instacart, because you're. You're like. But I think we're getting. We're also getting rocked to sleep when normally you might go out for a walk or. I mean, we see this with kids. How. When was the last time you guys drove by Example. When was the last time you guys drove by a park in a neighborhood where kids live and saw the park full of kids.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, great.

[Sal Destefano]

Example. It's more.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's more common for me to drive by a park and see it completely empty in a neighborhood full of. Where just 15 years ago that wasn't the case. You would see that from full of kids.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, to. To the earlier point that you made. If you want to be fit and healthy, you have to literally go outside of your way to structure your life in a way that is not, for lack of a better term, normal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Or convenient.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's not normal. Like a normal life. And what I mean by normal is healthy. Right. I mean, normal in terms of what's average is you. You wake up, you maybe eat something, you get in the car, you drive somewhere, you sit all day, then work is over, you get in your car, you drive home, you walk a little bit but then really you sit down again for the rest of the day and then you repeat. So activity has to be structured or planned. And then when it comes to food now, what is it, 70 of our diet? I think last time I looked, yeah, it's heavily processed.

[Justin Andrews]

Even involved in that whole process of harvesting, gathering, like presenting, preparing, like even just getting somebody to, you know, prepare their food, I think is a big step.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's, you know, it's, it's interesting considering that, you know, I consider myself, I think we all consider ourselves fitness people. How easily I was. Even I adopted something like Instacart.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

To be honest with you, I don't even hate going to the grocery store, but it's just so convenient, so easy, and they made it so affordable that it's just like, why not? And I, and I assume that a lot of these things have been like that for people. It's not like this, like, oh, this is so such an important thing I need. It's like, oh, it's, it's easy, it's nice. And then before you know it, that stuff just starts to add up. And then you look back and it's like, damn. Yeah, there are a lot of things.

[Justin Andrews]

Realize how many times you're repeating that habit.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. I think one of the main reasons why it's hard is because you have to be so different from everybody around you that it's. You feel you're at a place, you really do feel like if you eat really healthy. How often have you guys heard this from. From, from clients when they start eating healthy? It's so hard when I hang out with people. What do I do when I go here, what do I do when I go there? Because it's so out of the norm to eat, you know, whole natural foods. It's far more normal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's why I think it is. I think it's. I mean, we always give this advice when we have somebody who's really trying to make a life changing like, like fitness health right in there. And they have a circle of friends that don't you. They have to kind of change their friend circle. It's very difficult to. Because there's, it's inevitable. I don't care how long we've all been doing this. Like, I'm tempted to have pizza night or burger night or have the thing. It's like what keeps what. One of the, one of the main things that helps me stay healthy and fit is I have a partner who cares about it equally. And so what's nice is Even when I'm having those cr. It has to line up that both of us have that craving for us to go like, and feel like, oh, you know what? I've been on my kick with a gym and I've been good. Yeah, I feel like pizza. Yeah, you feel like pizza? Okay, cool, let's do it. Where it's actually very, very uncommon for that to happen. It's very uncommon for Katrina and I both to go, yeah, I totally feel like this is a good pizza night. Normally one of us is kind of like, no, I don't feel good. I sat around all day today. I want something healthier like that. And that makes a huge difference otherwise. I, and I remember dating girls that were not into fitness like that, and I realized it about myself. It's like, oh, I'm not like, because I'm, I'm quote, unquote fitness guy. I'm not like, I'm not perfect at all. And I easily can be pulled the other direction.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Especially with things like treats and candy and that option. It's like, if I, if I'm dating somebody who loves that in their life, oh, I'm, I'm like, I'm easily going to get persuaded that way. So having a, a partner or a circle of people that have the same goals or habits around eating, I think is, is paramount to someone's long.

[Justin Andrews]

It is.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's. We, we talk about it and I think this is kind of glossed over. You know, it's like, it's a lifestyle change. How often do you know, we say that and people say, you know, hear that. If you want to be fit and healthy, it's a lifestyle change. It literally is a lifestyle change. You have to change how you live, meaning you have to inject activity because it won't happen naturally. If you're expecting your activity to happen naturally unless you work like a blue collar job, it's just not going to happen. You have to inject it in. If you expect to eat healthy as a default, it's not going to happen. Healthy eating requires now planning and moving outside of the norm. And I like to communicate this because I want people to understand what it's going to look like for them moving forward. And if you have the. Because sometimes people in the fitness space will sell it as like, you know, you're getting fit and healthy and then, you know, you just lead a normal life. It's like, well, what do you mean by normal? If you think you're going to live the way you did before, it's just not going to happen. The default is poor health and, and strength is way down. The scariest data for me is looking at the average grip strength of young men versus what they were, you know, decades ago.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think that has a lot to do with the activity thing.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean there's something to be said about. Did you know that the average swinging on monkey bars when you're seven, eight years old, all the, you know what I'm saying? Like that you were doing physical things that required this like incremental strength gains over years and years and years that you don't do anymore.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I love those pictures of old playgrounds. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like 10ft high.

[Sal Destefano]

They're crazy compared to what they look like now.

[Justin Andrews]

Broke my arm.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah. By the way, did you guys know that when they do average grip strength for young women there actually hasn't gone down. There actually has gone up a little bit in college.

[Adam Schaefer]

Interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, because women are now encouraged to play sports now versus back then they weren't encouraged as much. Whereas men's strength. Grip strength is.

[Adam Schaefer]

I did. You know, it's so funny, we never bring that up. Yeah, we always talk about the average man's strength and how weak we are, stuff like that. But women's have actually gone up a.

[Sal Destefano]

Little bit over the last few decades.

[Adam Schaefer]

W for the girls.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, it's a W. Come on guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Big L for us. It's gonna be bad when it flip flops. You know what I'm saying? Where's the other side?

[Sal Destefano]

Nobody wants that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I mean that's, that's where it's heading. If it's heading that direction. That's interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

How. Okay, so how much has.

[Sal Destefano]

Just a T. Just a tad. It's just been a tad.

[Adam Schaefer]

But it's positive.

[Sal Destefano]

But, but the, but then. But with men's grip strength has gone significantly. Whereas like a college age male today has the grip strength of like a 60 year old.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

In 1980. And again, it's just, there's no. We're not using our bodies in our normal lives. And so again, the default is weak and the default is immobility and the default is obesity and poor health. And so you have to, you have to realize that you're going to be a rebel. I don't know what better word to use to describe like if you want to be fit and healthy, you kind of, kind of stand out. And I don't mean stand out because you look fit and healthy. I mean stand out because you live differently than everybody else.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I Think to your. Your earlier point of, like, you know, living, then you can live normal. It's like, I think people have these goals to get in shape, and then once they, they get in shape, it's, oh, now I can live normal again. And then it just. They go on this rebound or this like, yo, yo. Where it's like, now I'm like, slowly declining again. Now I have to get back in shape again. And it's this roller coaster.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. I like, I like, I like the rebel term. I think that's a. It's a good.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's accurate.

[Adam Schaefer]

I do think it's accurate, in fact. And. And you know what? Most people experience something. I remember experiencing this when Katrina and I first got together. And I mean, I totally felt like. I mean, the family, my, you know, my own family did not make me feel good about, like, choosing to.

[Sal Destefano]

This is a big problem for people who get into health and fitness.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. And. And I had to, like, stand my ground and be like, no, I'm. I'm not embarrassed to eat this way. I'm not. I'm going to. If you guys are going to eat that, I'm bring my own. And, like, I'm okay with it. Like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna impose how I'm gonna eat. But at the same time, too, I'm also gonna. Not gonna allow everybody else to influence me to where I gotta fit in and do that. And so if you go into it with that attitude of, like, you're gonna have to be a bit of a rebel. You're gonna have to kind of stand your ground. You gotta be. I think that sets the table better for the. Then other than trying to, oh, yeah, it's totally normal. You'll be fine. Everybody, Everybody will love it. You're gonna look so good, feel so good, and it'll be just like, no, it's like, that's why it's.

[Justin Andrews]

So be counter.

[Sal Destefano]

That's why it's so important that you. The most important thing you develop around these habits or this different lifestyle is a good relationship with it, because it's going to be. You're going to be doing it forever, and you're going to be different than most people forever. That's the idea. And if it's not something you truly. And you value in a positive way or truly enjoy, or by the way, people are like, well, I don't enjoy it. You have to find a way to enjoy it, because how are you going to do something for the rest of your life Unless you enjoy it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's really encouraging, though, though. And it's like. I don't know, I feel like it's. We. We had this talk about being like a good man and, you know, being faithful and loyal and saying no to the things. Like, it's hard in the moment, and it takes discipline and it takes sacrifice like that. But I also think you gain so much more respect for being that person who does that. So it may come off as rebellious and difficult at the beginning. And everybody. And really why everybody wants to drag you down is so they feel better about themselves is because they. When they see that there's a part of them that goes, I should be doing.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, and they're not. And so instead of them owning that and saying that they're gonna make you feel bad so you give up and then you're like them again. They're like, oh, I feel better about. Because we're all the same. So they're gonna.

[Sal Destefano]

You're. So. You don't have to mirror.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you're gonna. Exactly. So you're gonna have to be a bit rebellious. But when you can sustain that and you can survive that rebellion or that. That temptation start to accept you, they'll. Then they will respect you because of it. I remember example of the family is like, I remember the first three to five years feeling that way. And then now I think of now it's like, now I'm the person in the family everybody comes to for anything related health, nutrition, all that stuff. And everybody admires that part of it. Because I said I was going to do it, I did it, I stayed with it. So there's a lot that. But it takes time.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And there's also a misconception. And I can see where this comes from, where it's where people will look at. And I'm not talking extreme, by the way. Let's be clear here. We're not talking about extreme, like obsession with health and fitness. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a. Generally, a life that is generally geared towards better health, that's got balance in it, that's not stressful. So I'm not talking about orthorexia or extreme performance. Like, if you want to go extreme performance, that's fine. Orthorexia is not good, no matter how you cut it. I'm talking about general health. There's this misconception that it's not free or it's restrictive. Right. Like, okay, chain to it. Yeah. You got to Eat that way and you exercise, you know, four days a week at, you know, 6am or whatever. I just want to be free to do whatever I want. But there's. It's actually the opposite. What comes with that structure and that discipline is more freedom.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Because there's nothing more restrictive than poor health. So it is a bit of a misconception.

[Adam Schaefer]

It just takes time.

[Sal Destefano]

It does.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's just that that's it. Can you, can you survive or last through the time of rebellion and, and, and building that healthy foundation? Because if you do, it does give you, it gives you more respect, it gives you more freedom, but you have to get there.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's, I mean, delayed gratification is countercultural these days, I feel.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, across the board, like, people just want instant. They want to find the hack, they want to find the, the path that's going to get them this result, you know, the soonest. Like, I don't want to go through the struggle of it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you guys, do you guys think about that with, like. I actually think about that a lot. It's one of the greatest predictors of somebody being successful. Right. Is that ability to do that. Do you guys, as, as dads, do you think about that with the kids? Like, is that a conversation you have? Are there certain things that you guys implement? Like, do you like, is that like a talk or.

[Sal Destefano]

I think they learn more from action, from watching, you know, and as they get older, then you can talk to them about it. But like, with my little ones, I think they're just going to learn from watching, you know, from just watching how mom and dad live and what we do and not necessarily talk so much about it until maybe they get older.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think too, like, because you have to remind them every now and then too, because we talk about, like, when I started out, work and because they asked me a lot about work and like, what we do here and like, and they, they just see kind of where our level is right as we are right now, like where they're going to school and how all these things are, you know, know, accessible to them. And it's like it hasn't always been accessible. And you guys are in a tiny little room and you know, like, I, it's trying to kind of portray like, all the other jobs I had before this job.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, that led me to this point and just try to kind of timeline that. So, you know, they, they don't assume that they're going to find this amazing job right out of the gates, out of college. It's just they're going to have to do the, they're going to have to dig holes, they're going to have to, you know, we're going to have to like figure out what works best for you and what's going to drive that passion in you to, you know, to take you to, to success.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Katrina and I have, are trying to implement something early already and I learned that from, I learned it from, I think it was Scott Donnell I really liked. It was a clip I shared a while back. But he, he talked about and I hope, I hope I'm crediting the right person. I think it was him or maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was somebody else. Anyways, it would, the point was when you're, you have this like normal knee jerk reaction as a parent when your kid asks for something that's like, no, we're not going to do that. And instead of saying no, I build things in between it before it's yes.

[Sal Destefano]

So you're. So it's like scenarios where he has to wait.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. And teach him that. And so it also teach him this. It's not always just direct. No, it's just like, yeah, you can do that, but first you need to go clean your room and we're going to finish your homework and then you.

[Sal Destefano]

Can do that just to strengthen that muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. And so it's. And I really thought that was brilliant, actually. I think it was the neuroscience guy that I follow. And that's what it was. It was talking about the neuropsychology behind that of like, hey, you have these little micro opportunities to teach delay, delayed gratification, even into a five and six year old because they are asked, can I watch cartoons? Can I have the ice cream? Can I do this? And it's either we either say yes or we say no, or we could go, yes, you can, but first you need to go pick up your toys. We're going to do this and then we're going to do that and then you can have that. And like we've tried to practice that in that normal, like we want to say no. It's like, oh, here's a great opportunity to say yes.

[Sal Destefano]

But after wait.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I, this is why I think it's so this is why, you know, when I talk to our trainers, I always try to communicate that the thing that we want to convey to our clients, the thing that I think is important for somebody who's wants to get in shape or lose weight, is to think in the context of the rest of their life because. And people don't like that. We know this, like, running gyms. Yeah. People don't like to think, lose 30 pounds forever. Now, if you ask them, would you like to keep it off? They'll say, yes. But what they'll always say is, I'd like to lose it in six months. And then you say, okay, well, what about 10 years from now? I don't want to think about that. Let me worry about that later. Or when I take it off, then I'll worry about keeping it off. But you have to go into this with the idea of, how can I do this for the rest of my life? And I think that sets you up much better for what you're going to choose to do now, what kind of decisions you make, how big of a step you take or how small of a step you take initially, because you're thinking in the context of forever, is this something that I want to do for the rest of my life? So if you're saying to yourself, I'm going to go take four Zumba classes a week, do you want to do this for the rest of your life? I don't really know. All right, let's start with what you think you could do for the rest of your life, and let's move from there. Because the fail rate is so high after somebody accomplished. First of all, the fail rate to get to a goal is low. Is high. The fail rate to keep that goal is even higher. So it's got to be in the context forever.

[Justin Andrews]

This reminds me, I had a conversation with Everett because he's been struggling a bit with, like, feeling in a class. He's really bored. He's like, I hate. This is like, the worst. It's like, you know, I could be doing all these things. And, like, he's just. He's. He just finds it as, like, the. The worst ever. And I'm like, you know, you're.

[Sal Destefano]

Gonna.

[Justin Andrews]

You're gonna have this feeling all the time. What you need to do now is really work on, like, reframing this. And also too, like, board is a skill, and this is something, too, where I used to craft ideas. I used to start, like, putting pieces together. And also that entrepreneur kind of brain I didn't realize was an entrepreneur brain at the time. But I was trying to solve things, and I was trying to figure out kind of my next steps and, you know, something else, like, creative. I could create something. And he's creative. I'm like, think about something you can create while, you know your Your teacher's checked out. You're gonna have a bad teacher.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You're gonna have a bad coach. You're gonna have, you know, and you're going to be stuck in this situation where you don't have control over that. But what you can do is reframe. Reframe it.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's gotta be such a hard thing as a dad to see. When. I mean, when. When. I mean, I think we all are pretty aligned on the way we look at the education system and how it was designed and what it was designed for. And then you start to see, oh, my God, I have a son that has an entrepreneurial brain, and he's having to go through this process, and there's a part of you that wants to teach him. Don't. There's a skill in being bored. All the things you said. But then there's another part of you probably.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I hated it. Yeah. Inside you're going like, it is stupid. You know, say, but you. You can't convey that because that's only going to exacerbate that issue with him. Right. So you have to, like, teach him other skills to apply. That's got to be a tough thing to wrestle.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, they just bring up something interesting as. My wife made a comment on this the other night, and I was thinking about this. Do you remember when we were kids how it was kind of frowned upon to daydream? Like, oh, you're just daydreaming.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what kids don't do anymore? Daydream.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Because they have. They're always entertained.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like a pejorative.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You'd make fun of somebody for being.

[Sal Destefano]

I think there's value in daydreaming.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, 100.

[Sal Destefano]

And nobody does it anymore. I mean, like, when's the last time you sat and just think and just thought.

[Justin Andrews]

Think about something?

[Adam Schaefer]

I think we. I don't think it's talked about. And I know I've probably been beating the drum on this podcast.

[Sal Destefano]

Google the value of daydreaming. I bet there's studies on those.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've been beating this drum on this podcast back since the Irresistible book and everybody made fun of me and stuff like that. I think that we still have not even seen the worst of what's going to happen to a generation of people that literally are on social media for six to eight hours on average a day. Like, that's where that time would be spent. Like, daydreaming doesn't exist, Sal, because they're on a social Media platform. They're like that. They're filling their time and again. And this by the way too, I'm not, this isn't me like standing on my pedestal pointing the finger. Like I see it in my own behavior and I'm aware of it like that we can't go to the restroom or stand in a line or these things. And so I have to choose to like resist that urge to do that. And then when you're a kid, that part of your brain isn't, you don't have that, that's not naturally in you to resist that temptation. And so, and I don't think that we've seen the all the negative effects of what's going to happen to them 20, 30 years from now. It's like, that's so new.

[Sal Destefano]

No, so new. Speaking of which, did you guys see that? I'll pull it. Did you guys see that? California just passed regulations on chat bots for kids. Did you guys see this?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, no, I didn't see that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, so it's, this is, this was in TechCrunch, which is, you know, publication around technology. They just signed a bill that regulates AI company Companion Chatbots. So it's designed to protect children and vulnerable users from some of the harms associated with AI Companion Chatbot user. And so they're essentially going to put in things like you're going to need to put in your, you know, your age, you're going to have to identify who you are. And this is mainly over a couple issues that happen. We talked about that one teenager that committed suicide and they went back and his chat bot over months kind of convinced him to. There was another young lady, 13 year old girl who took her own life after they, and they, they went and looked at the chatbot that she was talking to and there was a whole series of problematic and sexualized conversations.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

With the company's chatbot. So they passed. This is going to require companies to implement features such as age verification and warnings regarding social media and companion chatbots. And the law also has stronger penalties for those who profit from illegal deep fakes. That's good. Including $250,000 per offense because the deep fakes are also a big issue. That's wild. That's wild to me that vulnerable people are talking to these chat box and it's so convincing that it's just takes them down this dark path.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

It's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Man, it's going to be weird. You see last week too, speaking of chat bots, did you see that chat GBT partnered Up with Shopify. Did you see that?

[Sal Destefano]

No. What are you gonna do?

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's. So it's basically now when you're on chat gbt and you're using it to search for Name the thing, the best pants, the best stuff for this links directly to buy. You can buy straight out there. Yeah, right there. Then there's. And I mean it. Maybe somebody else thinks this is negligible or no big deal, but it's like, you know, I'm of the, you know, camp that the consumerism is not a healthy thing, that we've. We've gone down that rabbit hole for so long. This just makes that. That transaction even easier, you know?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You know, it's manipulative. What's wild, too, is that the. Like a muscle. Like, if you outsource activity, your muscles atrophy. Right. So if I stop walking and I have a hover machine or something that does all the walking for me, all my muscles will atrophy. And the connections that go to those muscles that, you know, allow me to walk and move, that all atrophies as well. We all know that the brain also atrophies in a sense where if you outsource thinking. The example I love to use is the one we're familiar with, like navigation. Like, we don't remember anyone or navigation. Yes, We've outsourced it. And what happens is it's not just that you forget phone numbers or you forget how to navigate the part of your brain that knows how to navigate and that spatial awareness starts to atrophy and it actually loses its ability. So if you're relying on AI to think for you, your brain will literally lose its ability to think in many different ways. And there was that one study where they looked at MRI images and they actually saw parts of the brain.

[Adam Schaefer]

So have you changing. Have you played devil's advocate with yourself, though, on that thought? Because I have.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, what? So, like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I bring up the navigation thing, too, because I think that's, like, kind of. Kind of alarming. Like everybody.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, because we know it personally. Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right, Right. But then if I outsource that and I adopt something else in replace of that, I build a different muscle. For example.

[Sal Destefano]

Like what?

[Adam Schaefer]

I'll give you an example. Okay, well, because we'll stick with navigation, I no longer have to pay attention to where I'm going because I just plug it into my Google Maps, but now I can listen to a podcast while I'm driving, and I don't even have to think about where I'M going because I'm downloading information or I'm listening to an ibook, and you got it. And I think we all can agree that the information that I'm downloading from that podcast or from that book is incredibly valuable to me and makes me smarter in different ways.

[Sal Destefano]

It's either or. I think in the past, we were able to navigate while listening to things, while having conversations. It wasn't like we were navigating. Like, I can't listen to the music. I can't focus. Except for maybe when you're super lost. I think it was just happening, so I don't think it's either or. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Sorry, this reminds me. I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard this on a podcast, and they're talking about, like, way back in the day when, you know, trains just became a thing, and, like, you had all these railways that would connect you to cities and. And, like, people were worried that life's moving so fast right now. They start doing cocaine.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, they start promoting these types of drugs and to help speed up. Yeah. Like, up the usage of, like, certain drugs and things because they felt like they were, like, having to keep up some kind of pace with that. I thought that was, you know, that.

[Sal Destefano]

You know that methamphetamines were prescribed to housewives in the 60s. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've seen the ads.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah. Pep in your step.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like, is this your cocaine now? You know, like, it's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's actually. That's kind of an interesting thought, Justin, because, I mean, we do that with Adderall and stuff today. I mean. I mean, how many. This just happened in, like, the last two decades with kids going through college felt, like, the pressure and the information that they were. That they were having to learn at such a high rate. Like. And then as soon as one kid found out about Adderall and then passes to the next kid, it became like. It's. I mean, it became like an epidemic in colleges. Right. I mean, that wasn't really a thing when we were coming up in School.

[Sal Destefano]

No. 1.

[Adam Schaefer]

That wasn't a thing at all. And then it became super popular.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, got crazy and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's what I mean. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I know. And it's.

[Sal Destefano]

It.

[Justin Andrews]

I've actually noticed a big trend in schools where they're, like, giving a lot less homework and they're trying to pack it all in when you're actually in class.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Our schools, the school of Max is in is really good about that. It's a really.

[Justin Andrews]

That for us.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I've had them in two different schools that, like, they're both considered, like, really high academic schools. And there's. There was a very clear difference between the two. It just seemed like one of the other. The other one valued so much more of the other stuff, too, versus the other one was pure academic. And the pure academic. I remember when he was in pre K, like, coming home with, like, stacks of homework to still do, like, kids in pre K. And he's doing this. Like, this is ridiculous. Like, where the. The class he's in, the school he's in now, I think has a really nice balance of that where I don't feel like that's all the kid is doing when he gets home, you know? Is it.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you guys remember when we were younger and you didn't have just the quick access to Internet and you. You're like, hey, you know, I'm thinking of a stat. Or, hey, did this happen with dinosaurs? And you just had to ask people and then you just kind of had to, like, think about it and debate and nobody could look it up. Yeah. To double check or whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys remember that sounds right.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You'd end it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Whoever made the best argument. That's how Sal got known as being so right all the time. Because he just made a good argument. Yeah, he's exactly. He says it's so calm. He's like, he must be. I'm like, he must know.

[Justin Andrews]

I walk away, like, confused.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm not buying that.

[Sal Destefano]

Speaking of AI, Doug, if you could Google figure 03. I just want to show Adam something really interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Figure 03.

[Sal Destefano]

This new robot that they just did. Hold on. Wait.

[Adam Schaefer]

Before you show it to me, you will see it probably putting away dishes, but you will not see it washing a dish.

[Sal Destefano]

Let's read what it says.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's see. Let's see.

[Sal Destefano]

Let's look it up, Doug. And then you want to click on.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not a Tesla bot, is it?

[Sal Destefano]

No, dude, but this thing has hands that articulate.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And it does things for you, including washing the dishes. That's what it says.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Sal Destefano]

That's what it says. What was the bet anyway?

[Justin Andrews]

Did you.

[Sal Destefano]

Would you have to get me? Wasn't there a bet like we made it? Or was it just a bet you.

[Justin Andrews]

Had to go to the moon?

[Adam Schaefer]

I believe there's nothing I could buy you that would matter anyways.

[Sal Destefano]

There it is right there. And if you look up at the.

[Justin Andrews]

Top, commercial flight to the moon.

[Sal Destefano]

Click on the top right. And you click on figure 03 or something. It'll say some of the stuff that it does. But it's meant to be a. There it is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like a house assistant or something like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude, it's five, eight. How much does it weigh? 20 kilograms. No, that's a payload. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

What do you mean payload? What does that mean?

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

How much it can carry, I believe.

[Justin Andrews]

Is this just an independent company? Is it like backed by any other kind of big software company?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But Dylan sent it to me because.

[Justin Andrews]

Or it looks pretty sleek. It also could just be a guy like dressed up in a. The suit.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

And then they're passing it off like this is happening. This has happened so much in tech, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

So true.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you, Justin. Yeah.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

But it says laundry, cleaning and doing dishes. See dishes. I don't know exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. What is that? Okay, so I. I shared with you guys that Microsoft did this whole thing, a whole analysis on what will be the hardest things for AI to accomplish. And dishwashing was on the top because.

[Sal Destefano]

It'S hard to tell what's dirty. We had it.

[Adam Schaefer]

We had an AI student in here and he was the one that like convinced us. Me of that argument. Was just like, it can pick up and put dishes away all day long, but it cannot detect the difference between a design on a plate or dirty on clean. And then how. And so the damn robot is going to get stuck there. Washing the same plate for Katy Perry.

[Justin Andrews]

Is the closest you got.

[Adam Schaefer]

You wash one, one, one plate for.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[Adam Schaefer]

As close as you got somebody flying.

[Sal Destefano]

The moon for fun. Yeah. Isn't that interesting though? Yeah. How long do you guys think in 10 years people can have.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Because what did Elon say it very reasonable for the price that he said it's going to be.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not like he's like, yeah, it's just going to make sense for the consumer.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, here go. This is a great transition of this because it ties right into the car. I mean, right now I told you guys that one of the things. As I've gotten older, what I do. I just did this the other day again too. Like, I didn't train on Saturday, but boy, I did all kinds of like house chores. Like, I literally made that decision. I'm like, I should go to the gym right now. I was like, you know what? There's a lot of around the house That I needed to knock out.

[Justin Andrews]

Move.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just move and I'm sweating, you know what I'm saying? Like, I did a lot of labor around the house, and I know how valuable that is, right. As far as overall health, fitness and activity. And so I chose to do that. You're going to have something like this that you paid $25,000 for.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, it's washing a dish, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's a great.

[Sal Destefano]

Walking around doing its thing. Look at that, huh?

[Justin Andrews]

Boy, that would be creepy for sure. For sure.

[Sal Destefano]

People gonna have sex with robots. So terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, we'll wait till they can skin them right to where they look like humans or whatever.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, it's playing. It's playing with the dog.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, to Justin's point, though, they. This is like such a sales pitch to like, like, make you feel like, oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you guys seen the AI prank? That's videos of the worst. Have you guys seen the new prank that kids are doing to their parents? The AI prank?

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Taking a picture of themselves in the house. But they're using AI to show, like a homeless person in the home. Oh. And they're sending it to their parents. Like, hey, we're helping this.

[Justin Andrews]

I've seen versions of this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you. I said the made one. I said the made one.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you guys see that plumber that comes in? He's got the shirt off.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I haven't seen that one.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, and they're calling, like, this guy's calling his dad and he's like, hey, dad, who's this plumber that mom hired?

[Sal Destefano]

He's all coming in.

[Justin Andrews]

He's got a picture with her.

[Adam Schaefer]

I sent you guys the French made one. The one with the guy's having the conversation with his girlfriend.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like, why is she. Why is she posing?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, he used. She's inside the house cleaning.

[Sal Destefano]

She's like, super hot. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

The girlfriend's like, sitting. What is she doing in her house? Why is she posing?

[Justin Andrews]

Pretty funny.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Speaking of exercise, I just read an article showing that. So you know what? The federal. Do you guys familiar with, like the federal minimum for or with the. What should I say? The. The federal recommendations for activity? Well, they did a study and they showed that doing a little more is better, which is, of course, because the recommendation is so little.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

So they did a study showing that one about 150 to 300 minutes per week of moderate intense activity or 75 to 150 minutes per week of vigorous intense activity reduced the risk of early death by 21%. But people who exercised two to four times the minimum reduced the risk by as much as 31%. It just goes to show that the minute what they recommend is so low, that more is definitely better. Now, more isn't always better, but in this case, it's definitely better.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, be careful with that statement because I don't. I think that I really feel like we fall on two ends of the spectrum. There's very few people I find that fall in the really good balance, and I'm sure that's going to offend somebody who thinks they are that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I really do think that we, we tend to toggle from one end to the other. You're. You're either you don't do enough activity and you eat poorly, don't move, don't exercise, don't do anything. Or, or you fully adopt the lifestyle and you're like about it and then you're training, you're sacrificing relationships for it. You're carrying your meals too much. Yeah, there's. It's, it's.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's. It's rare that I even like. In our circle, we've had the opportunity to meet a lot of people on this podcast and interview a lot of health and fitness people. Would you like.

[Sal Destefano]

We tend to overdo it.

[Adam Schaefer]

We do like you when, when you. When we have our, even our peers and our friends on the show, they're like, they're the ones that are fit are like obsessed with. With it. They're not like a healthy balance with it for. Not for longevity at least.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And that's not a knock on them or at all. Throwing shade. It's just that when we talk about what probably is the best amount or dose of exercise and training for longevity, which is what you're pointing to with studies like that, most people don't get it. Right. Most people fall on one end of the spectrum. Either you're way under or you're way.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, it's interesting even for us. You know, here we are, you know, fitness guys or whatever, but because we're sitting here most of the time, I'm inactive.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Even though I work out, I'm inactive.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

When I was running, that's the part I missed. Training clients I missed.

[Adam Schaefer]

And that's the part I miss about personal training more than anything was. It was built.

[Sal Destefano]

You're moving.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was built in activity.

[Sal Destefano]

You're standing and moving all day long.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

In here we move barely on a regular day. I'm taking 6,000 steps.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And that's with a walk, which is crazy. Yeah. It's more than the average. So. Yeah, it would be, but.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean the. Probably the biggest move that we did lately of like was was feel making the podcast Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and at least allowing Thursday and Friday so you can make. Because at least now those days I walk. Yeah, you got the kids, right. You're going to the park, you're doing stuff like so on Thursday, Friday, that's when I'm. I'm now doing more stuff. So it's better than what it was just say two years ago in here when we were in here five days sitting on a chair.

[Sal Destefano]

Speaking of which, with activities. So I've been using egg protein now pretty regularly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you guys take all the Legion? I want. I want to take some home. I did you though, leave at least leave one vanilla bag for me because I'm back to making my shakes and I actually want. I want to have it made a shake with their.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, I still use their way all the time.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude, egg, I mean, high quality protein makes a difference. Unless you're eating a ton. A ton of protein, which most people don't. It does make a difference. I do notice a difference because of the egg protein. It's so high quality.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I'm more interested in just the texture and the taste of it in a shake.

[Sal Destefano]

It tastes really good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And I'm so. I have whey mostly. I have all of legions way in my house and that's what I use for my Shakespeare like 90% of the time. But they've recently done the egg and since they've done the egg, I haven't made a shake. And they've done so good with flavor and tasting that I bet it's making.

[Sal Destefano]

A comeback as a, as a protein powder. It's in some, in some ways of ranking protein, it actually outranks whey just a little bit.

[Adam Schaefer]

Really.

[Sal Destefano]

In most of them.

[Justin Andrews]

They're most people, they don't have reaction from the egg protein as much.

[Sal Destefano]

So dairy and egg are the two highest. Dairy being slightly higher. The two things that people tend to have intolerances to. But dairy is more common. So oftentimes if you can't have dairy and you can go to egg, that's a. It's a just as high quality. Like I said, in some cases. I've seen some studies that rank high.

[Adam Schaefer]

As the business operator. What is more expensive to. To produce?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Is it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You say it like it's.

[Sal Destefano]

Is it a lot I don't know how much more, but I know it's more.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's. I'm assuming it's priced a little. Can you compare the two?

[Sal Destefano]

What is egg versus wet? Look at their proteins and see which one costs.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because they're going to be. They make them to where they're relative grams of protein. Right.

[Sal Destefano]

So you know what I would like to see? And I'm going to put this out there, everybody, because you look at the studies on whole egg versus egg white. Whole egg protein stimulates protein synthesis higher and the cholesterol in eggs has an anabolic effect.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Factors in.

[Sal Destefano]

I wish I cannot find why. Except for cooking powder, I cannot find an egg protein that's whole egg. It's always egg white, which is fine. But I wish they had. You know, I think they're afraid of the fat. People just want protein. They don't want the fat, really. But if they had whole egg protein, especially for people trying to build, that would be so amazing. And nobody does it. I can't find it.

[Adam Schaefer]

It must be purely just to keep the calories down.

[Sal Destefano]

It's because people don't want fat. They want just protein and their protein powder. And if you go a whole egg, it's going to be. What is it? 50. 50.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's the. Well, that's.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, generally more expensive.

[Adam Schaefer]

I was actually, you could just give me Legion's price on his whey protein versus his egg protein.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, let's do the actual comparison.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I want to see. I want to see what Legion's selling, the difference. And I want to know if the gram per gram on protein is the same. I'm assuming it's about the same. If not the same.

[Sal Destefano]

A scoop is about the same. About 24 grams.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So I wanna, I wanna know, is it the same? And then I'm curious to, like, how much more he has to charge for the egg than he does the. The way.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, let's see what the. Let's see. But I know it's a little bit more.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I mean, if you've never. If you've never made a shake with egg. Egg protein is awesome.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, it is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it frosts. It frosted up a little bit. And so I haven't had legions yet. But so far, I mean, Legion has been so spot on with all their flavors and stuff. So that's the way 64.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, but how many servings in that? Yeah, you got to compare the two. Let's give Doug a little, little time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

Well, my computer is being glitchy. Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Dial up.

[Sal Destefano]

That's why. Yeah, what was the noise, dude? It's crazy. I was having a conversation with my. He's almost five now, right? We're talking and I was trying to explain TV when I was a kid.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, you were telling.

[Sal Destefano]

So I said, you know when I used to watch tv, I said, you had to watch what was on tv. And he's like, what do you mean? That's. What's what? That's. Now I'm like, no, no, I couldn't choose what was on tv. And he looked at me like, what a dumb. Why would they do that? I'm like, no, no. There were channels. You put it on. Whatever the channel had on it was what you had to watch. He's like, so you would click and pick on it? I said, no, you couldn't pick it. It was just there. It was just on. And the look on it. He was like, looking at me like, that's the dumbest. Why. Why would they make that? Like, they didn't know how to make it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, do you guys remember? I mean, I missed that. TV Guide used to be a big deal. I used to get in the grocery store, used to get the TV Guide. And you'd plan watching a show later that week.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what's happened? This. What happens with too much.

[Justin Andrews]

Gave you talking points.

[Sal Destefano]

When you have too much choice, you end up watching nothing. Yeah. When I was a kid, if something was. It was a movie on tv, I was like, I think I'll watch this. And it started halfway through. Cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

What is it? Okay, what is the psychology of that? Because it's crazy how weird that is when you. When you don't have too much choice. Yeah, you. When you don't have the choice, you were, like, excited, like, oh, that's one of my favorite movies. I watched that one.

[Sal Destefano]

But I would have never. I would never pick it on Netflix.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or not now, when you have access to all of it, you never go back to that because you're like, oh, I've already seen that.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Watch it again.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It was, like, less stressful to go to Blockbuster and just, like, physically, I want this one. As opposed to, like, trying to remember things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Talk about a sad thing that died. I mean, that was fun. Talk about great memories on Friday night, going to. Going with your girlfriend down to Blockbuster.

[Sal Destefano]

Buy some candy and some.

[Adam Schaefer]

To pick a movie out. You know, I mean, they go back to, like, the movement thing too. Like, that was a whole effort. Got in the car Drove.

[Sal Destefano]

That was a date.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was, it was a whole like that was a whole date. The whole thing.

[Sal Destefano]

It took four hours time on your hands.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now we.

[Sal Destefano]

Ben.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now they bench three. Three different movies.

[Sal Destefano]

It was, it was. I do. I remember that was really fun going.

[Adam Schaefer]

I love. So I used to love that I used to love.

[Sal Destefano]

Now were you a rent like three or four movies at a time person?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Or were you. Oh you did. So you were like that. Yeah, I would rent one.

[Adam Schaefer]

One.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. My dad never let us pick more than one. Just one really. What you're watching the one. That's it. You want something else?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, is that when.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Was that when your parents were paying and you were a kid?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, okay. Well that's different. I'm. Yeah. I don't think we rented very often when we were kids, but when I got my own money and I could go rent at Blockbuster, I mean I rented two, three, four at a time.

[Sal Destefano]

Whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

What was your most rented movie? Did you. Rad. Always.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean it still has the title because I I rented that as child the most. I mean ever. I. That movie came out when, when all of us have talked about our kids. When you remember your kid watched the show Annoying. That was my annoying movie. Probably to my parents that every time they went to the movie and they asked me, is there anything you want me rent. Rad. Rent Rat. I've watched the same thing over over and over and over for I don't know years.

[Sal Destefano]

We. We would watch Predator over and over again. Commando, that was over and over again. First Blood. And then when my. When we'd sleep over my grandparents house, sometimes my cousin and I would sleep over for the weekend. We would pick just random kung fu movies like the dubbed ones. They didn't even speak English. This dubbed. We'd pick them out and they would just be so ridiculous.

[Justin Andrews]

And yeah, it'd be like Stargate or. That was a big one for me. It's like anything like Kurt Russell.

[Adam Schaefer]

Stargate. Yeah. No way.

[Justin Andrews]

Stargate. Dude, this is great.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a random one.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's a random one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's good though. I get behind that. I watch that a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that and then Big trouble. Little China.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Was on repeat.

[Sal Destefano]

Is that a movie that you can. You can recite every line from beginning to end?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

If you put it on right now, put it on mute, I would tell you everything. That's. Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

I didn't watch it that many times. In fact that's. That's when I could. I could watch again because it's been so long since I've probably.

[Sal Destefano]

So good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it, though, even now? Because you know how that is so good.

[Justin Andrews]

It's cheesy good. Like you. You still appreciate it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, some movies are still good, even though it's like, I just watched a movie like that that's like, cheesy, but it's still enjoyable. You know what I'm saying? But some are, like, painful to watch. You thought it was so good and then you put it on and you're like, oh, this is.

[Sal Destefano]

If they made a big trouble in Little China Part 2.

[Adam Schaefer]

They did. Didn't they make a remake of that?

[Sal Destefano]

They did not. No.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think so.

[Sal Destefano]

I was gonna. I just got sad. Did they really?

[Adam Schaefer]

Doug, you still working? He's still trying to find. I had to pull out a different.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

Computer to actually find it.

[Justin Andrews]

I know, it's like, we gotta get this.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's the. What's the ren and stimping thing of The. The. The. Five hours later? SpongeBob is a SpongeBob.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

Anyway, I did find the numbers.

[Sal Destefano]

What is it?

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, all right.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

So, yeah, it's more expensive. Egg protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yes, we knew that.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

So for.

[Sal Destefano]

Sorry.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

Always a wise ass. All right. 22 grams of.

[Justin Andrews]

Sorry.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

22 grams of protein in. In the both of them.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

So they're serving 30 servings in one.

[Sal Destefano]

30.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

20 servings in the other.

[Sal Destefano]

So 10 more in the way. Yeah.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

And the price is relatively the same, so it's actually.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's more expensive.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, so that's. So that's what he did. That's smart of him. The serving size, I mean, that's good to know, though.

[Sal Destefano]

I figured.

[Adam Schaefer]

I figured one was. That's actually quite a bit more expensive, to be honest with you. 20 to 30 servings, you're talking about. You're getting almost half the service.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

A little bit less money for the. The egg, but not substantially.

[Sal Destefano]

Egg's always more expensive. Yeah, but if you can't have dairy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, I need the most high quality. Yeah. Look at our. Yeah, no, our vegan proteins are really expensive. Right. So it's not. My point is, though, if you. If you're fine with both of them, then go away. And you're trying to save money.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

Way all day long. But I mean, taste wise, I can't wait to do Please save me a Vanilla Egg so I can try it.

[Sal Destefano]

They're really good. My. Speaking of supplements, I started implementing the green juice back into my routine. And every time I do, I was like, why did I stop taking it? It's. It's one of the most feel good products that I use.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Just on a regular basis.

[Adam Schaefer]

I gotta get better maybe. You know, you're so good about that. I would, I would love for us to do that before we podcast like in the.

[Sal Destefano]

You know why you're asking me to do is make you some.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I do. You know what it is? Because we have these.

[Justin Andrews]

You mix it for me.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have.

[Sal Destefano]

I will.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have these here. And I don't have that at home, the little plastic bottle. So because it does so well to.

[Sal Destefano]

Put it in a water bottle and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just shake it up. I, I'm not a fan of putting it in my other bottles. I like to put it in something I can throw away. And so we have that here, so. But I don't have that at home.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I love it.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you, if you were to make.

[Sal Destefano]

It, I get back, I'm using it daily now. So when we come in here, I'll use it because we have some of the back. And I just feel, every time I feel good. Digestion feels good on it. It's one of their better products.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like a little bit of boost of energy even out of it. I don't know what it is about theirs, but it's always been, it's. I mean, there's a reason why it's their number one product deficient.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, I saw this article that I thought would be interesting to bring up about the satiety effects of protein. The satiety effects of protein. And this guy made an article to make it kind of sound like the, the. So satiety is like the, the, the feeling of satisfaction, the fullness. Right. So eating certain macronutrients like proteins, carbohydrates and fats, each one of them has a different effect on satiety. And it's widely, it's. It's well known and widely regarded that protein produces the most satiety. So if you, if you're trying to eat less, a high protein diet tends to, tends to promote that. However, past a certain point, it loses that effect. What's that point? It's right around hitting that upper limit of what's considered effective. Once you pass that, you don't get any more of a satiety effect. But the good news, and here's why the article kind of made me annoyed, is most people don't hit that upper limit. So for most people hitting eating A high protein diet makes a big difference, especially consistently. Yes, yes. But it's an interesting phenomena. They think it just. When you hit a certain amount of amino acids, your body is like, we're cool. We think we have all the nutrients that we need. And so it's this great trick, by the way. Over time, this satiety effect may actually start to wear off. If you eat a high protein diet for years and years and years, really, it may have less of an effect than it did initially. But that's okay because if you've been doing this for five years, you've built other relationships and habits that'll probably.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't think there is a simpler piece of advice than telling a client every single meal. Go after a large portion of protein, normally meat, eat it first, everything else will fall into place. I mean, it's, it's wild. And that's not even me telling you. You can't have bread, you can't have pasta, you can have it first. Yeah, just eat, eat that first and make that a priority every single meal. And it is wild how much that takes it. Now I'm not saying it's not possible to stuff your face with macaroni and cheese afterwards, but it is far less likely. It is far less likely. You eat, you eat that meat first and that really takes care of a big chunk of like how hungry you are afterwards. And then it's so much easier to eat a smaller portion of whatever carbohydrate or starch you're talking about.

[Sal Destefano]

Hey, speaking of wild, I gotta tell you guys something hilarious. We went over, we went to our friend's house warming party. They just moved into a new place. Beautiful home by the way, down kind of where you live, a little bit down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, really?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, really, really nice house.

[Adam Schaefer]

But anyway, my neighborhood didn't even say hi.

[Sal Destefano]

Huh. So I don't know if it was terrible directly your neighborhood, but it was kind of around there. But anyway, we go down there and we tell my daughter, my three year old now, you know, we told her what we're going to. She's like, where are we going? We're going to go to a house party. You know, someone's moving in, they got a new home and she's like super excited for some reason. So I'm like, okay, I don't know why she psyched about this. So she goes and she wants to put on a tutu, which sometimes she'll want to put on a tutu. So she put that on. We get there and we're Hanging out. And she's like, can we dance? When are we going to dance? And then we realize, like, oh, we do this thing at home called dance party. Where my wife has.

[Adam Schaefer]

She heard party.

[Sal Destefano]

She thinks party is a dance party. And so we have this, like, strobe light that does, like, colorful things. We play it in the bedroom, and we play music. And my daughter just. She puts on a tutu, and she runs around a room and just has a blast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

She was so upset that this wasn't a dance party, so we had to go in the room.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, if it was house music, she just.

[Sal Destefano]

She was so obsessed. She's like, when are we gonna dance? When are we gonna dance? I'm like, oh, my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

I made a mistake. When Max was, like, three or four years old, remember I used to have. Over at the Marina house, I converted this huge closet into, like, a toy room closet that you closed off and. Yeah, right. He'd go in there, close it, and play and everything like that. And I. I one time went in there with him, closed it, turned all the lights off, and I took a flashlight and turned music on and flashed around, like, a strobe light. And. And it just. Yeah, he went nuts. And it was like, the cool. But then all the time. Yes, all the time. And if the word party came up or dance or anything, like, came up was like. He would come over and, like, bug me to go do it. That I have to. No matter where we were at or what we're doing, I'd be at strangers houses. Like, I gotta go. I got to go over in your closet or bathroom and turn the lights off.

[Sal Destefano]

And I remember.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. It was definitely one of those moments of. I remember doing stuff like that, going, like, the things that you do as a parent, you know, I'm saying to keep your little three or four.

[Sal Destefano]

So now if we go to a party, we're like, it's not a dance party, honey.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's like, oh, yeah, that's great.

[Sal Destefano]

It's well documented that being on a ketogenic diet improves cognitive function and focus. But what if you like carbs? What do you do? Try ketone iq. This is a drink that you take. It's got exogenous ketones. Immediately, you're in ketosis, and you've got that brain energy that fuel that focus. With no stimulants. No stimulants. You could drink it, go to bed later. You're totally fine. Go check them out. Go to ketone.com, that's K-E-T-O-N-E.com mindpump and on that you can get 30% off your subscription plus a free gift with your second shipment back to the show.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

First question is from Mainfit Chick. What is the best way to make sure your form is good when you have no mirrors, no spotter or trainer to help you?

[Sal Destefano]

This is a tough one. I think if you're, if you're experienced, you don't need a mirror. You know what it feels like to have good technique, good form if you have a lot of experience. Otherwise it's very valuable to have like a, like a, like a mirror that you can look at while you watch yourself in the mirror. Because good form is hard to feel when you don't have a lot of experience on what it feels like. So that's why gyms have mirrors. It's not so you flexing them. Although that's what a lot of people, those people do.

[Justin Andrews]

But yeah, it is way more valuable to be able to see.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you use mirrors at home?

[Sal Destefano]

Do you have ears?

[Justin Andrews]

I do now. Yeah, I have it, I have it set up over my dumbbell rack, but I, I never had it like right behind the squat rack. So I, I just tend to squat. Pretty consistent.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. My last, my last house gym did not have them. Although I'm a huge fan of having a mirror. I just think it's extremely, even if you're advanced, I think it's, it's valuable. I think you don't need it. Yeah. That's why my last house gym I wasn't like, I gotta have a mirror. It's like no big deal. It wasn't in there and I was, it was whatever. But if I was like, this is going to be my consistent spot of training for a long period of time, like I eventually would want a mirror.

[Sal Destefano]

And I think, yeah, I think you can film yourself. Although it's happening after the fact. When you watch the video mirror is real time. Right. So it's, I think it's important to invest in a, you know, a body length mirror so you could watch your technique, watch your form and make adjustments. It's actually very important. I mean I would demonstrate this with clients. I would put them in proper form, take my hands off them, have them do a few reps and then I'd have to correct their form in front.

[Adam Schaefer]

Of the mirror so they could see it.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. It's, it's super. I think it's very valuable unless you're really experienced. Like if, like I don't need a mirror now. I can work out. I know what good technique and good form feels like, so it's not an issue. But if this. You've only been doing this for, you know, less than a year, you want to watch yourself so you can see what's happening. Because you do not know people. You just have no body awareness.

[Adam Schaefer]

If this is new, if you're trying to work on your form, period, I. It's. I mean that you. You need to get a mirror. It's not that expensive. You can get really cheap mirrors.

[Sal Destefano]

Y.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not that expensive, and you get lightweight ones. They think those dancer mirrors that we used to have in here a long time ago that are super lightweight, cheap.

[Justin Andrews]

That you can myar.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's made out of mylar and works really light like you could do. You can very inexpensive. Get a movable mirror for your garage or wherever you're working out. And if you're at the period of your lifting career where you're concerned about your form, you 100 should make that.

[Sal Destefano]

Because you have the body awareness is just. Isn't there. I could tell somebody, like, go by feel, but that doesn't help with a lot of people. You'll watch someone overhead press. This is why trainers. One of the reasons why trainers can be so valuable is people will do an overhead press and not realize what's going on. And they might even think it's a very revealing one.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, even when I was just trying a new technique with a jerk press, it was like I needed somebody else's eyes to really, you know, know where to tweak. Yeah.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

So next question is from Eliza Seidenbender. What should I look for when choosing a personal trainer?

[Sal Destefano]

Ah, good question. Yeah. Do you a say what do you. Number one, do you like them? That's very important because if you don't like them, you're not gonna want to work with them. Number two, do they assess you or do they just take you straight through a workout?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Number three, do you feel better after your workouts than you did going into them? I don't mean exhausted. I don't mean like you're beat up. I mean literally, do you feel good afterwards? Does your body feel better? Do you feel like you're moving better? That's typically a good. A good sign.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'd say number two is the most important.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

If they. They. That's an easy way right away to fish out good versus bad.

[Sal Destefano]

Let's just take you through a workout.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. If you get. If you Get a good trainer, they'll do a full assessment on you and that, that right away, like, if they're doing a full assessment, then you know, they've got the, like very few brand new trainers who don't know what they're really doing or know how to do, like a thorough good assessment. And even if they were brand new and they know to do a thorough good assessment, they're probably good, are going to get really good. And so it's a good. You got some.

[Sal Destefano]

Are they paying attention to you while you're working out, asking a lot of.

[Justin Andrews]

Questions to get background and get those data points? Because you need that. I mean, for them to be able to craft and create something like specific to you, you need to be able to reveal a lot of that.

[Sal Destefano]

And then if, if you had to pick between experience and education, experience is what I would weigh heavier, Much heavier. You know, somebody's like, well, I have a degree in this and that and well, how long have you been a trainer? How many people have you trained? Oh, I just started. Far more valuable to work someone who's been training people for, for 10 years now. These aren't like guarantees. I mean, we have a lot of trainers here in our studio that are new, but they're exceptional. But we train them ourselves, so they're under good tutelage. Yeah, but experience, you know, if you go to a gym and you're looking to hire one of the trainers, there's ask who's the most experienced, who's been.

[Adam Schaefer]

Training people, what's cool about gyms that you can do? I mean, most my career I was the fitness director. Right. So if you come, if you find the fitness director or fitness manager, I'll.

[Sal Destefano]

Be able to match you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And you. And like nobody ever did that, by the way. Like nobody ever. But if you did, maybe the handful of times it happened in a decade for me, where someone's like, who's your best guy? Or who's your best girl? Like, I always that that person that cared enough to ask me about that, come to me and ask me about it. You got that person. So if you really are concerned about getting a great trainer or the best trainer in a gym, walk up to the general manager or the fitness manager and say, I'm looking to train with the best trainer in this gym. Who is it?

[Sal Destefano]

And then another thing too, like, if you listen to our show regularly and your trainer is countering a lot of the things that we advise, they're probably not great. And it's not because we know Everything. It's just we're very experienced. We're doing this for a long time. And I say that because oftentimes we have people come on the show and say, oh, I worked with this coach and, you know, I knew what they were saying I shouldn't do because it was something that you guys, you know, said often you shouldn't do. But I did it anyway. Now here I am. I need help. You know, it caused these problems, whatever. So, you know, you could use us as kind of that, that gauge. Are they countering a lot of the information that we give out?

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

Are they training you in ways that we would deem inappropriate? And if that's the case, then I would say don't work with them. Find someone else.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

Next question is from Burke himself. What are your top three recommended rotational moves for, for someone who mostly does bodybuilder type training?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, Justin dude. Yeah, yeah. Pressing with rotations is always a big one for me. And you would do that. Dumbbells or if ideally kettlebells, just because of the load of it helps to, you know, kind of really bring that.

[Sal Destefano]

You mean shoulder rotation?

[Justin Andrews]

Shoulder rotation and that external rotation, because it's one of the biggest lacking abilities I think for people is like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you'd say the press with the kettlebel. A close number two to that would be like an Arnold press.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, yeah, yeah. If you're just sticking with like a shoulder press. Like I would add that as a variation to that. But then windmill would be a good one too. Yeah. And then, you know, any kind of trunk twists, obviously. And then being able to. Sometimes I'll use this, like, even if I'm doing a lunge where I'm not just doing like a lateral lunge, but I'm also kind of picking and plotting a point and then pivoting and rotating into that position.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And coming back. Just because the. The spatial awareness to that is. Is something that's very lacking with people. They don't know how to navigate through that.

[Sal Destefano]

You know the other thing too, what sometimes happens with people who do bodybuilder style training is they'll incorporate rotational movements in a bodybuilder style.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So it'll be like a cable chop or an oblique twist to develop the muscles that rotate the trunk. Nothing wrong with that. And it's definitely better than nothing. But rotation with a little speed is much more functional and it'll develop the muscles just as well. So like a medicine ball toss or a twist with the band. Band allows you to move Quicker, I think, is far more functional. Because when it comes to rotation, you need a little bit of that element. Because in the real world, when that's happening, it's almost never in this controlled. Like, I'm just working the obliques. There's a little speed involved, and so it helps reduce injury.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, if I had to pick my favorite, I would say the window windmill. I think the windmill is just a. I mean, because you get the shoulder stability in there, you get the transverse plane in there, you get rotation, you get hip hinging in there. I mean, that's kind of like a all encompassing great move if you can incorporate that into your routine and, and get good at it. Because a lot of times you take a bodybuilder who's got a great physique, and they can't. They can't even do it. So learning to just do it takes its own skill to get good at it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I would say too, like, just an easy one, because everybody lunges all the time. But just adding that bit of, like, rotation with the trunk as you're, you know, lunging and doing like a lunge walk is very beneficial.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And you know, one of the areas. So sometimes people are really strong in the gym, do a lot of bodybuilding style, hypertrophy work. They'll find themselves getting back injuries out in the real world, and then they'll always be like, well, how is this possible? I do rows. I even do bent over rows. Sometimes I deadlift lift. And it's their ql. And their ql is this muscle that stabilizes this kind of the sides of the spine. And the windmill is really good at strengthening. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you got the deadlift.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You get really strong in this kind of like straight line kind of stuff. The ql stabilizes, but sometimes it falls back behind, especially if you start to train too long in that way.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why I like the windmill so much. Such a good, good. I mean, like, that would be the number one for me. Because even if you just did that, you. You cover a lot of good things for the average person. Even addressing some of the shoulder stuff that Justin was talking about, because the shoulder mobility required to do that encompasses that. Yeah, it encompasses that. So it's. It's one of the best. All right. I remember when you first did it with us, and I'm like, this was good.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was a missing movement in my routine that I'm like, I can't believe that I.

[Justin Andrews]

So restricted without it. Crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

To watch people that don't incorporate any kind of thoracic rotation. It's, it's, it's rough to, you know, be functional.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it feels really good to suck at it and get good at it. Like, I remember first doing it with like hardly any weight at all because it was just hard to do the movement to getting to a point where I could load it pretty good. I was like, oh, God, that feels so good to be able to load that movement. And so I would start there and then build on the other two that you said would be great.

[Technical Assistant / Producer]

Next question is from Isiah. Is fitness a viable career in today's climate or are you forced to be an influencer if you want any remote clients?

[Sal Destefano]

Social media has distorted fitness business so terribly to the point where now trainers and coaches who want to do just a virtual business. Let's just say I'm a trainer and I want remote clients. This is what I want to do. I want to coach people remotely. Social media has led us to believe that the value of remote coaching is that people are far away. That's not the value. The value of remote coaching is that it's a low cost way to get coached. Yeah. So you could get just as many clients out in your neighborhood or outside your business and signing them up for remote coaching. They don't have to be across the country. This is what people think. So, like, how am I going to reach people for remote coaching? I need to have the social media, you know, page that attract lots of people from around the country. No, you don't. You go out and talk to people out in the real world and get them. Just like I recommend for trainers, get in person clients. Except now you're promoting virtual coaching and they live in your city. That's all it is. I think again, people get confused. They think remote means they have to be far away. No, remote means you're coaching them virtually. You're doing zoom calls, you're using text. And it's a low, it's a low cost option for coaching. It's less expensive than in person. That doesn't mean they have to be far away. They could still be in your. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It also doesn't mean you don't. You can't build a very successful. Listen, there's a lot of in person.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Badass trainers you don't even know about. Yep. Because they're not on social media.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're too busy training clients. They're busy. There's a, there's a lot of people that are really good.

[Justin Andrews]

Big demand for it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. At Their craft that are not on Instagram. You do not have to be on social media to be a great trainer.

[Sal Destefano]

If you gave the three of us a chance, somebody challenged us and minus mind pump, nobody knows who we are. And they said, okay, build a six figure personal training business. The last thing the three of us would do is go build Instagram is build a bunch of social media, anything.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh God no.

[Sal Destefano]

I would go, I would literally. It's this easy, it's this simple. I would go outside.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

And talk to people and introduce people and bring them in and say, hey, let me take you through a workout or let me talk to you or let me do a free body fat test, set up booth, stuff like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Referrals, like it's the fastest way. Yeah. Physically work with people.

[Adam Schaefer]

The social media thing ends up being like it's a, it's a, it's a marketing tool to, to build on top of a foundation.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So once you like so you don't start there, you start with building that foundation. Not to mention where you're going to get, where you're going to make your bones in this business is the, the reps and practice of, of training these people. So going straight to trying to be an influencer, to then be a trainer is asked backwards. It should be go be a great trainer where nobody in the Instagram world knows who you are. Go get good at your craft. Go change people's lives, get referrals from people because you've gotten so good at your craft. Oh, and then by the way, you can along the way start an Instagram page and start documenting the process and watch what happens from that. And you don't even have to do that.

[Sal Destefano]

And I'll say this, I'll even say this. For fitness people, it's harder to build a six figure business that's social media based than it is to build a six figure business that where you just go out and talk to people. It's harder. It's a completely different business. If you're trying to build six figure on social media, you have to understand social service too. You're now a media person.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, not only trainers are not only that Sal, but then this is the part that I think, why I think we get so passionate about this conversation. And in our course we do not encourage trainers to be a in or a social media trainer first or an online trainer first because the skills to talk and communicate to somebody virtually across, across the globe is far higher than doing it in real person. Where I can see the person moving in front of me when I see somebody.

[Sal Destefano]

If you're not great in person, good luck doing it.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I'm saying. Like. Like you're. Because you're going to get the questions of the clients. Clients gonna be like this. Like, when you're training in person and they're squatting, it's very obvious when their mechanics are off, you're like, oh, that looks really bad. Let me help her fix it. When they call you on Friday for their zoom checkup and they go, man, I hurt myself.

[Justin Andrews]

My knee hurts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Or my knee hurts from squatting.

[Sal Destefano]

They say nothing and they're doing it bad.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. Either one of those. But even. Let's pretend they even are aware because they hurt themselves. Like, what do you. What do you do? You know, what's your set?

[Sal Destefano]

Your phone over here. Let me watch you move. Okay. Maybe put some weight. I don't have weight with me. Okay, let's guess.

[Adam Schaefer]

No good versus somebody who has trained a lot of people on how to squat and are familiar with a lot of the mechanical flaws that the average client has or can ask questions, like, did you do this when you went down?

[Sal Destefano]

Or.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or can you show me a video? Like, oh, okay, I see what you did there. Like, that comes from training real people. You can't. You don't get that.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what this reminds me of? This is like someone saying, I want. Like, if in our era, I want to become a success, I don't have any clients. I want to become a successful personal trainer. What kind of business card should I make? And you look at them like, what do you. Who cares? Yeah, you don't need a business card right now. Let's go out and build your business. It's exactly the same thing. It's just digital. No, you don't need to be an influencer. No, you don't need it to build even a virtual business. Go out and talk to people. It's faster, it's easier, it's more effective, and you'll become a better coach. Well, the first use of social media.

[Adam Schaefer]

Support, the first step of our five steps, right. For in our course, is to go get a hundred reps. So go. Go do it. Go train 100 sessions in person. That's the first thing you go do. Go do that.

[Sal Destefano]

Do it for free.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And that. Exactly. It doesn't have to be. You don't need to be. It's so. Because someone will be like, oh, my God, get 100 clients. That could take forever. It's like, no. Go train people for free. Who cares? At this point you're in the learn phase of your career. You got to go prove. You got to go figure all this stuff out. You're going to gain so much knowledge, skill, information and get good at your craft through that process. Versus oh, I think everybody's an influencer to build their business. And so you're trying to figure out social media, you're trying to figure out Instagram and figure out how to post, right? And catchy shit. It's like. No, it's backwards.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's @mindpumpmedia.

[Mind Pump Intro Host]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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