2724: Fix Your Gut, Fix Your Body - The Benefits of Probiotics

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump Ep. 2724 – Fix Your Gut, Fix Your Body – The Benefits of Probiotics

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: November 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew dives deep into the science, benefits, and misconceptions around probiotics, exploring how gut health profoundly influences not only digestion, but also muscle growth, mental health, immunity, and much more. They discuss the explosive growth of the probiotic market, how modern lifestyles make supplementation close to essential, and break down ten unexpected benefits of probiotics, backed by research and their signature practical, no-BS approach.
The latter half of the episode features live coaching calls with listeners on topics like gaining muscle when highly active, optimizing workout programming, and nutrition adjustments (especially for women working on muscle gain).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Probiotic Boom & Why It Matters

• Massive Market Growth:

  • 2015: $34 billion
  • 2025: $90.56 billion, projected to hit $126 billion by 2030
  • "That's serious growth... and it makes sense, because it works." – Justin (04:46)

• Why People Need Probiotics Now:

  • Modern diets lack fermented foods and fiber needed for a healthy gut biome.
  • Environmental factors like glyphosate, antibiotics, and even antimicrobial soaps disrupt gut microbiota.
  • Generational decline in microbiome quality due to C-sections, formula feeding, and less breastfeeding.
  • "We’d rather take a pill than fix our diet…but maybe it’s necessary." – Sal (05:27)

• Lifestyle & Environmental Damage to Gut Health:

  • Regular mentions of how hard it is to get enough probiotics naturally in today’s world.
  • Breastfeeding statistics—more people are coming back to it after decades of formula being the norm (09:07–09:29).

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Ten Unexpected Benefits of Probiotic Supplementation (09:39–12:52)

• Builds Muscle, Boosts Recovery & Performance

  • "You can look this up… Data on probiotics and force production, recovery, and hypertrophy are kind of wild.” – Justin (03:21)
  • Not as powerful as creatine, but more effective than almost anything else for muscle building.

• Reduces Cortisol in Chronically Stressed

  • Not a blunt cortisol "reducer"—it balances, lowering high levels (09:39).
  • "The gut-brain axis, GABA, the HPA axis—probiotics seem to balance those out." – Justin

• Improves Anxiety and Depression

  • Significant anti-anxiety/antidepressant effects, according to research; not as strong as exercise, but better than many OTC remedies.

• Boosts Immune Function & Lowers Infection Rates

  • Lower rates of viral and bacterial infections (standard effect).

• Lowers Blood Pressure & LDL Cholesterol

  • Documented in controlled studies.

• Enhances Skin Health

  • Reduces acne and eczema, even when taken orally, indicating the reach of gut health (12:00).

• Supports Weight Loss and Reduces Body Fat

  • Statistically significant reductions in fat and waist circumference—rare for supplements (16:02).

• Improves Sleep Quality & Reduces Allergies

  • Noted improvements in users’ sleep and allergy symptoms.

• Supports Oral Health

  • Helps with gingivitis and gum disease markers.

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How to Choose a Probiotic (17:23–19:35)

• Buyer Beware!

  • $90B market draws lots of cheap, ineffective products.
  • "Don’t just buy the cheapest—there’s a universe of difference. Seed is our choice; the science and delivery are unrivaled." – Justin

• Quality matters: Alive at room temp, survives the digestive tract, simulated testing for efficacy.

• Supplement industry is plagued by underdosing and poorly tested products—be selective.

• “Go with Seed. There's no other probiotic that comes close.” – Justin

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On The Gut-Skin Link

• "It’s so funny to hear that about acne… When we were kids if you asked a dermatologist, 'Does my diet impact this?' They’d scoff at you.” – Sal (13:04)

On Western Medicine’s Blind Spot in Nutrition

• “How much training do you think I got on exercise or nutrition, as a doctor? Zero. That’s why doctors don’t mention it." – Sal (15:00)

On Real-Life Parenting, Marriage, and Kids

• Conversation shifts in the last half to efficient home hacks, marriage advice, and how parenting changes priorities (see timestamps 38:33–49:46).
• “If you place your kids over your spouse, data shows everyone suffers more… but it’s so unintuitive.” – Sal (41:06)
• Discussion of sharing responsibility among families and finding balance for relationship health.

On Effective Fitness Approaches for Busy People

• "People with fast metabolisms do better with lower-volume programs. You’d be amazed how little you need to do to gain or maintain." – Justin (74:41)

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Call-In Coaching Segments

(61:28–70:59) Jerry from New York: How to Gain Muscle on a High-Activity Lifestyle

• Problem: Construction worker + basketball, super active, can’t put on weight/muscle.
• Advice:
  • Limit gym work—2 days a week max, focus on compound moves.
  • Sneak in liquid calories (full-fat dairy, even sugar before heavy activity).
  • "If you had a quart of whole milk daily, that's an easy 400 extra calories, and real easy." – Justin (65:51)
  • Hit protein (at least 1g/lb bodyweight).
  • If calories are high and activity is high, muscle will come—patience!

(71:01–78:57) Luke from Tennessee: Going from High-Volume to Mind Pump’s MAPS 15

• Problem: Lost weight successfully but wants to build more muscle; concerned about dropping workout volume.
• Advice:
  • Try MAPS 15 "Advanced" (minimal volume but high frequency), see if strength rises.
  • Monitor progress—if strength goes up, you’re on the right track; add volume only if needed.
  • Fast metabolism + high calories pairs best with lower-volume, consistent training.

(79:19–91:13) Andrew from Canada: Overtraining and Life Stress After Achilles Rupture

• Problem: After Achilles injury, trains hard, making early progress but drops off, feels fatigued, joints ache, worried about testosterone (low but rising).
• Advice:
  • Classic overtraining—especially with a demanding home life (five kids, full-time work).
  • Switch to MAPS 15 Performance, one foundational workout weekly, focus on consistency.
  • Any extra energy: add mobility work rather than more volume.
  • "Phase 1 works for you because it’s the lowest volume. Stay there until life shifts." – Sal

(93:31–102:51) Myra from Montana: Women, Strength Gains, and Troubles Building Muscle

• Problem: Gained strength but not muscle, despite training; concerned about upping calories.
• Advice:
  • If strength increases, you're building at least some muscle, but calories may be the limiter.
  • Strength: Squat up 10 lbs, deadlift up 15, bench up 10—solid, but more food would yield more muscle.
  • Reverse diet faster: add 200–400 calories, especially given heavy teaching load (group fitness instructor 3x/week).
  • Psychological challenge in bumping calories = join Muscle Mommy group for support.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:45] Introduction to probiotics’ benefits beyond digestion
• [03:47] Probiotics and muscle building data
• [04:54] Probiotic market growth stats
• [05:27] Why modern life damages gut microbiome
• [09:39] 10 surprising health benefits of probiotics
• [12:35] Gut health’s effect on skin, immunity, and more
• [18:14] How to choose a quality probiotic
• [38:33–49:46] Parenting, marriage, and relationship talk
• [61:28–70:59] Coaching call: Active male struggling to gain muscle/weight
• [71:01–78:57] Coaching call: Programming tweaks for muscle gain
• [79:19–91:13] Coaching call: Balancing intensity and recovery post-injury
• [93:31–102:51] Coaching call: Women, strength, and calorie fears

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Closing Points

• Gut health is foundational: Impacts everything from mood to muscle to immune health.
• High activity = higher calorie needs: If you’re very active, “sneak” in more calories with liquids and eat consistently.
• Lower volume often works best—especially if you’re busy, older, or recovering.
• Supplement quality matters, a lot: Don’t trust the cheapest or trendiest option; go with science-backed, reputable products.
• Mindset and support communities make big changes doable: Especially for women or parents afraid to eat more or who struggle with program switches.
• Practical home and relationship advice: Parenting, marriage, and home life all affect fitness and health outcomes. Stay flexible, communicate, and prioritize your core relationships.

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Notable Quotes (With Timestamps)

• "You can look this up… Data on probiotics and force production, recovery, and hypertrophy are kind of wild." – Justin (03:21)
• "We’d rather take a pill than fix our diet… but maybe it’s necessary." – Sal (05:27)
• "If you had a quart of whole milk daily, that's an easy 400 extra calories, and real easy." – Justin (65:51)
• “How much training do you think I got in exercise or nutrition, as a doctor? Zero. That’s why doctors don’t mention it.” – Sal (15:00)
• “People with fast metabolisms do better with lower-volume programs. You’d be amazed how little you need to do to gain or maintain.” – Justin (74:41)
• “If you place your kids over your spouse, data shows everyone suffers more… but it’s so unintuitive.” – Sal (41:06)

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Episode Mood: Practical, evidence-based, conversational, peppered with humor and personal anecdotes—even taking lengthy detours into topics of relationships, home life, and practical daily hacks related to health and happiness.

This episode is a must-listen if you’re:

• Wondering if probiotics are worth adding to your routine
• Trying to balance fitness goals with real-world demands
• Seeking evidence-based solutions (not hype)
• Needing to hear you’re not alone in facing lifestyle or mindset barriers

Find Mind Pump and the hosts on Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug.
Learn more at mindpumppodcast.com.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. As winter approaches, make sure you set aside some time for self care. Now through December 2nd. Get great savings on personal care essentials when you shop in store or online. Buy two participating self care items and save $3. Shop for items like Tresemme Shampoo, Dove Shampoo, Dove Men's Care Body Wash, Dove Body Wash and Axe Shower gel, and save $3 when you buy two or more items. Offer ends December 2nd. Receipt restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Adam Schafer]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Justin Andrews]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Adam Schafer]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Justin Andrews]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode Live callers, people called in. We coach them, we help them on air with fitness, fat loss, all the good stuff. But this was after the intro. Today's intro is 59 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fat loss and muscle gain, fitness, health, family life. It's always a good time. If you want to call in and have us coach you on air, here's what you do. Email us your question and your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Seed. This is the world's best probiotic. In today's episode we talked all about the benefits of probiotics. Get this one. This is the best one. Go to seed.com mindpump use the code 25mindpump get a discount. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi. Today I talked about their green juice. I'm using it daily again. I always notice a benefit with my vitality and energy when I take it. Anyway, they have lots of good products and supplements. Go check them out. Go to Organifi.com mindpump that's O R G A N I F I.com mindpump use the code mindpump Get a discount. Also, Black Friday sale starts right now. 60% off everything. All programs, all program bundles, all mods, all guides, everything everything. Site wide 60% off. Also if you get something you enter into a contest. Two people are going to win a one week free stay at the Mind Pump Park City House which has been optimized for fitness and biohacking. It's a beautiful place in a beautiful location. Two people get a week stay there for free plus $1,000 will go towards their travel. Five people are going to get three months of one on one coaching and 10 people will get three months of our concierge coaching. Sign up now go to maps fitnessproducts.com use the code BLACK Friday for the discount. All right, real quick.

[Doug]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, hit head on over to my pumpstore.com.

[Sal DeStefano]

That'S it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Of all of the supplements you can take, it's looking like probiotics are the most beneficial across the board. And yeah, I'm not talking about digestion. Everybody knows that probiotics help with digestion. But there are many ways probiotics affect the body in a positive ways. Many of them you're probably not aware of. We're going to talk about those 10amazing and weird ways probiotics benefit your body. Let's go.

[Doug]

Is this going to be as good as creatine?

[Sal DeStefano]

The muscle building studies coming out are fascinating and interesting. I don't know where that's on your list. I know that's on your list.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not on this list because we've talked about it before, but I'm glad you said that. Adam, the data on. You can look this up. Everybody, you pause, look it up. The data on probiotics and force production, recovery and hypertrophy are kind of wild. Yeah, it's a supplement that actually builds muscle. I wouldn't say it's as effective as creatine for building muscle. It's not, but it's more effective than anything else. Which is kind of wild.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean you could probably make the case though in circum in certain circumstances. It could be though, right? Like if you have like debilitating issues with your, with your gut and then the probiotics help solve that. I mean I, I would think that would.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure. It's just, it's just weird to me that a pro bot.

[Sal DeStefano]

I would have never.

[Justin Andrews]

Had you asked me this 10 years ago, I would have speculated, oh maybe. No, it was a direct muscle building effect.

[Sal DeStefano]

So super not to derail you from your, your story here, but I'm curious because you last time you brought it up, I actually want to dug the check and I didn't ask him. So I'd like him to look up. Curious about the market. Just is how have we seen the probiotic market just explode? Like is it. Was it you Know, a, a multi million dollar industry just, you know, a decade ago. Now it's, you know, tens of millions or hundreds of. Like, where is it at? Like, I'm so curious.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's.

[Doug]

I have no idea.

[Justin Andrews]

I would say it's a. It's, it's 100.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. It's 90.56 billion billion in 2025.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that worldwide or US?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's global.

[Adam Schafer]

And projected to reach 126 billion by 2030.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's serious growth. And where was it 20 years ago?

[Justin Andrews]

It was nothing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, where would. Yeah, that's. That's some serious growth.

[Justin Andrews]

That's crazy. Yeah, that it's, it makes sense, you guys, because it works. Here's the thing though. If you take a good probiotic, you notice there's a lot of things that are probiotics that you might not.

[Sal DeStefano]

What you got for me?

[Adam Schafer]

34 billion in 2015. So it's gone up substantially.

[Justin Andrews]

Almost tripled.

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it kind of points. And not a lot of people eat or consume a lot of fermented foods because obviously that would cover it.

[Sal DeStefano]

It also, it also points to. That we'd rather take a pill than actually fix our diet too.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, guys, listen. Of course, you guys, I hate to say it. It's easier. I hate to say it, but it may be necessary. So, yes, we don't eat a lot of fermented foods. We also don't eat a high fiber diet. And there's fiber. And certain types of fiber feeds, sure, beneficial bacteria. So that definitely plays a role. But there's also so many things that are environmental that disrupt the microbiome of the gut from glyphosates in foods. Even organic foods sometimes have glyphosates through cross contamination antibiotic use, antibiotic or antimicrobial soaps in toothpaste. Just environmental things that have just totally disrupted our microbiome. It's probably essential to take a probiotic these days and remember a lot of your microbiome because it's influenced by your environment quite a bit, but a lot of it you get from your mom. Okay. And so if you're a C section baby, that's reduced. If you don't breastfeed, that's reduced. Now that girl grows up to have her own kids. And so what you're seeing is this generational decline in the quality of the microbiome of the gut. And a lot of people are connecting this to autoimmune issues.

[Doug]

Yeah, I didn't even thought of antibiotics and glyphosates because they're so prevalent.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Doug]

In the environment. And it just finds its way in all of your. Like, water, in all the foods that we eat, everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Another random question since you brought up brain breastfeeding. When. When did baby formula really take off? Like, at what point did we. Because at this point, I would guess that there is a greater percentage of people that use.

[Justin Andrews]

It's reversing a little bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it is reversing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. But so where. Where was it set? Like, in the 70s? I would imagine almost everybody is.

[Justin Andrews]

Is. That's a good question.

[Sal DeStefano]

Breastfeeding at that time.

[Justin Andrews]

And then, you know, at court, it. It working. I know you went here, so we'll blame it on you. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Strongly correlates with the. You know, you could loosely label as a feminist movement. So as women went into the workforce, and as. This is also part of it, everybody. So don't get pissed off with me, but this is lots of books that were very popular during these decades that labeled breastfeeding as oppressive and burdensome and how modern science was freeing. And so there were decades there. So now it's reversed now. Okay, so now we have all this data and science supporting breastfeeding, and. But there were decades there where it was like. Like, why are you breastfeeding? It's so. It's like you're gonna wake up in the middle of night, you're gonna do this and that. It's. You know, formula is just as good, just going that direction. So there were times, like the 80s and 90s, it was like. It was. You were kind of weird if you were like, no, I'm gonna breastfeed. Especially when you're in a medical.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It'd be interesting to see what the numbers were like, because I imagine most of our parents probably grew up being breastfed, and very few people didn't. And then I do know that it became widely popular, and it'd be interesting to see how much it's rebounded or gone back the other direction, too.

[Caller/Guest]

It looks kind of like a bell.

[Justin Andrews]

Curve or whatever, but. Yeah. So because of our environment, the way we live, probiotics are probably necessary. Muscle building, endurance, stamina recovery, all of those things are positively affected from probiotics. Supplementation. Supplementation. What does that say there, Doug?

[Doug]

Boom.

[Adam Schafer]

So it has gone up. So from 2004, it was 73%, and then it went up to 84% in 2021. However, after six. Up to six months in 2004, it was 11.3% in 2022.

[Justin Andrews]

It was 27.9% of what, what's the 11 to 22? Breastfeeding.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, breastfeeding.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so breastfeeding went up.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

2004-2022.

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then I would imagine it was the opposite from like say 1980 to 2000 growth. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Huge growth. Yeah. All right, so let's talk about some of the other ways that probiotics seem to benefit you. Here's one. Reduces cortisol in stressed individuals. This was a more recent study.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now, is that just because you, if you're, if your digestive system is thrown off and you have trouble breaking down food, then you're gonna have this low level.

[Justin Andrews]

Way more complex than that. Okay, Way more complex. You have the gut brain axis, you have gaba being produced by oftentimes is heavily influenced, like other neurotransmitters from the gut. You have the HPA axis, you know, just the hypothalamus, the pituitary, the adrenals, how they communicate with each other. Probiotics seem to balance those out. So by the way, this cortisol lowering doesn't happen in people who don't have, you know, stressed levels of cortisol. In other words, it's not a cortisol lowering drug. It's a balance. It creates this balancing effect. So somebody who's under a lot of stress, who has these inverted cortisol levels and has all these issues with it, which it'll feel like is in the morning, I feel like I get hit by a car. It takes me a couple cups of coffee to get moving at night. I'm tired, but wired. And then I can't sleep or I get broken sleep. Probiotics. Probiotics. Easy way to kind of help with that, which is pretty cool. That was a more recent one. Another one. Improves anxiety and depression. So this is pretty significant. It's actually a significant anti anxiety antidepressant intervention. Especially when you compare it to other over the counter interventions. Of course, not as good as exercise and just eating healthy. But if you're like, yeah, I got some anxiety, can I take a supplement? Probiotics. That's the way. That's a good one. It boosts immune function. That one's a little bit more well known. But we see lower rates of viral infection, bacterial infection, better inflammatory pathways from supplementing. Again, this is from people supplementing with probiotics. Lowers blood pressure. So they find it to lower blood pressure, reduces LDL cholesterol. Here's a cool one. Enhances skin health reduces acne and eczema from taking oral probiotics.

[Sal DeStefano]

I imagine all these that you're listing off that there are studies to support that they've controlled all things equal. This is the only thing they've changed is added this probiotic and all those markers are showing.

[Justin Andrews]

So lifestyle trial tests are difficult because there's so many things to control. Probiotics, easy. They take groups of people who aren't taking probiotics. We're going to give you this one that contains and we're going to give you a placebo and then let's see what happens. So it's like it's, it's a easier type of study to conduct. So it's not like a survey, you know, how many tomatoes do you eat or do you eat healthy?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I feel like those are terrible.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it's like Here, here's your 30 day supply.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Of this thing. We're not going to tell you what it is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. Half of you get a placebo, half of you get a, a probiotic and the researchers don't even know who gets what. So it's, you know, double blind. Yeah. And then they come back and report back and see what's going on. But acne and eczema.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You see a benefit from keeps pointing.

[Doug]

To like how, how many things are affected by your gut bacteria and like healthy gut bacteria obviously is going to make a massive difference in so many directions.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny to hear that about like acne because when we were kids, like if you asked a dermatologist like does my diet impact this at all? They would say no. They would scoff at you.

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder if they still say that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I know they, I know they did. Not just 10 years ago or less when I was still seeing a dermatologist for my psoriasis. I mean. No.

[Justin Andrews]

Doesn't it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Oh yeah, no, that's, that's not, that doesn't matter. It's like really feels like it should. Yeah.

[Doug]

I feel like I have an effect.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You know what's funny about that? Not to go off topic, but what wouldn't a better diet affect? Well, can you name anything that it wouldn't like any issue that someone has? Would eating healthier with your body affect it? Yeah, always all things. Yeah. Like what? What wouldn't it. You know, I'm trying to think right now. I think it all gets weird that a doctor would say that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because I think that would be like the, you know why? It's because they're not trained in it. Who was it? Dr. Peter Attia was just on 60 Minutes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw that. Yeah, I saw that.

[Justin Andrews]

And she. And she's like, you know, I don't remember what the question she asked.

[Sal DeStefano]

How many people think what you do is like, hocus pocus?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. Yeah. And. Which is crazy because literally what Dr. Ati is doing, he's a real physician. He's a. I believe Harvard. No, Stanford. Is it? Stanford. Stanford trained. That's where he got his education. And all he's doing is, like, fitness and nutrition protocols in addition to the traditional medical protocols. And she mentioned hocus pocus.

[Doug]

Why is that so weird?

[Justin Andrews]

It's not like he's doing weird stuff, you know, he's not.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, he's not biohacking stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, it's like, no, I'm getting. I'm testing their grip strength. I'm testing their VO2 Max. Yeah, we're doing exercise.

[Sal DeStefano]

Pretty fundamental things.

[Justin Andrews]

That's so weird. And. And then she asked him that, and he said, how much training do you think? He goes, I went to Stanford. I trained. Doctor, how much training do you think I got in exercise? Zero. Zero.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

How much train do I think I got? Nutrition, Almost zero.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, so that's why other doctors don't. They don't have the training. Yeah, so they don't. What does that say there, Adam? I mean, Doug. Sorry. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It seems like dermatologists are now suggesting dietary changes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So it's. It's coming.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Coming up relatively new, though, because like I said, it wasn't that long ago when I seen a dermatologist. I think actually that was kind of like the tipping point for me is like, at that point, I'm. I'm pretty fully aware. You know, I was kind of more just asking, like, hey, is there anything I could do? It was like, I knew the answer was more like, let's see if.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's see where you're at here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, let's see how they respond. And I'm like. And when they were just like, oh, yeah, no, that doesn't really matter.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you guys know, they still use it. You know, one of the big medications for really bad acne is Accutane. Doug, how does. Look up Accutane, if I'm not mistaken, it is a very powerful antibiotic. Or am I tripping? Can you look that up in how it works? And what. Because I know that Accutane has got some really wild side effects. What does it say?

[Adam Schafer]

It's retinoid derived from vitamin A.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so what. So is it antimicrobial, microbial, or is it just. Yes, there you go. Yeah. And it's. It's got some pretty. It's a very powerful drug. But anyway, so helps with acne, helps with eczema. It supports weight loss and fat reduction. Here's what's cool about this. There are no supplements to help with that. Pretty much no supplement. You'll give someone and then you'll see a. A statistical significant reduction in fat loss without lifestyle changes. There just isn't this one. There is these people lot. Not a ton, but they didn't change anything else. They lost about 2 pounds of body fat and about 1. About 1.8 centimeters around their waist, which in the realm of supplements for fat loss, is pretty amazing. Yeah. Because supplements pretty much do nothing when it comes to fat loss. So I thought that was pretty cool. Improves sleep quality, reduces allergy symptoms, and supports oral health like gingivitis and gum disease. So crazy.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What. What it does. The athletic performance benefits for me, I think are. Are a great selling point because I.

[Doug]

Know of all things ever put those together.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I know of all the things I talk about that I just said our audience is the most. Yeah, that's the one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Muscle burn, fat. Now I'm interested.

[Justin Andrews]

Done. Let me use this one. Oh, I mean, healthy. Too cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

The fact, though, that it's a $90 billion industry, the. The amount of bootsy probiotics that are out there, I mean, there's got to be. I mean, that's just got to be taking it back on you guys. That would be my biggest concern as a consumer. I feel like a lot of these things that get a lot of popularity, the studies start popping out, I think of the red light therapy in the last decade. Same thing. Like, you know, and then here come all the charlatans. And so buyer beware. I mean, I think one of the biggest mistakes people make when they hear stuff like this and they go out is they go find the thing and they search the cheapest version of whatever that thing is, and that's what they purchase, thinking that they're getting what they read about or heard about.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, go with seed. If you're hearing this right now, you go with seed. There is. When you're looking at quality supplements, there's always a difference in. In every market of supplements because the supplement industry is just notoriously terrible. So Consumer Reports will do test protein powders. The recent one came out, you know, it was like, I don't Remember was like 7 out of 10 of them had high levels of heavy metals. Or they'll test other supplements. Like, oh, you know, eight out of ten had nothing in the pill or had barely. Whatever. But when it comes to probiotics, and I know this gut health was a big issue for me for decades. You have seed over here, and then you have everybody else way over here. It's like. It's a universe of a difference in terms of the science, the application, the delivery. The bacteria is alive at room temperature. It's stable. It gets delivered to where it needs to. They have a simulated digestive tract to see what's happening. There is. There's no other probiotic that comes close. So, yeah, I would just go with seed. That's the one. Anyway, I got an article I want to talk to you guys about. Have you guys been seeing this, like, going viral right now about these reports? I'll pull this one up on, like, the international spy network that's been. That's infiltrated our Silicon Valley for a while.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our feeds are also different.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I'm surprised you didn't get this one.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

From me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Justin would get that one.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I'm surprised you didn't either, because you know what this is?

[Sal DeStefano]

What.

[Justin Andrews]

What would be if you're Russia or China. Okay. And you're like corporate espionage. You're like, I want to steal secrets from these tech billionaire nerds.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Where do I go?

[Justin Andrews]

How would I get with honey pot them?

[Doug]

Yeah. Every time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Honey pot them. With what, though? What are they? What are you?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, no. You don't know what that term is. Honey pot.

[Sal DeStefano]

Honey pots are where you attract them. You attract them.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but it's specific for spying is women.

[Doug]

Women.

[Sal DeStefano]

I thought honey pot honey potting, someone just means in general. You basically entrap them.

[Justin Andrews]

Within the spy world, a honey pot is always a girl. It's. It pretty much.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, you're not.

[Justin Andrews]

Guys aren't a very.

[Doug]

Unless you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I mean. Oh, I have a demographic.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just always. I always thought honey potting was not specific to, like, you're using a woman to attract that. That it was more like you're basically entrapping people using something that would entice them. No, but I didn't know that it was specific to.

[Justin Andrews]

In the spy world, you send attractive women.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Over to.

[Sal DeStefano]

For sure. That's a way to get.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You get all those nerds.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. These guys that got no attention in high school at all. Yeah. And then they're billionaires.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And then Suddenly, you know, they're getting all this attention.

[Sal DeStefano]

So how's that? So wait, tell me. This. This is interesting to me now. So what?

[Justin Andrews]

I knew, I knew.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's why this is interesting. So how's it. How's it unfolding? So what's.

[Doug]

Whoa. I've heard about these tech bro murders. Like, that's a whole, like, class of. Of incidences around here too. And one of them was in Santa Cruz, and this guy was like, you know, this billionaire who. He had like a boat, like in the harbor and everything, and they caught him dead. This. This prostitute, like, was basically. They're doing heroin with him.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God.

[Doug]

And then like, left in. Apparently he's having, like a seizure or something.

[Justin Andrews]

Died. So these aren't. These aren't prostitutes. They're not sex workers.

[Doug]

These are spies.

[Justin Andrews]

They send highly educated women who are very attractive, which is.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what we're working for, who don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Even have an accent sometimes. Remember, this is like. This is funded by the state. This is like Russia's funding it, China's funding it. Yeah, they send them over and they play a long game. So they go over there. These articles are crazy because there was this. They've got a couple of them now that are like spilling their secrets to us and saying, like, well, here's what we do. They'll come over there and they have a whole strategy. So.

[Doug]

So they're like in legit relationships with these guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Married. Yeah. They'll go as far as to get married and have kids.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

And then the guy totally trusts them, of course. And they get all kinds of secrets from them that they send over to these other countries. It's like a super long.

[Doug]

So crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Dark, right?

[Justin Andrews]

So. So here's the.

[Doug]

Off somebody like that for that long.

[Justin Andrews]

So here's the screen.

[Doug]

You have kids with them.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's the script. You first appear in their life. Listen, she. So this girl goes in here and she spills, like this.

[Doug]

Mother Russia, huh?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So. So first you appear in their life seven times before making contact. So you want to be around them about seven times. So they kind of notice you a bunch of times. Then. Then she says is when they finally meet you, their brain already trusts you. Then she says it starts with love bombing messages, compliments, selfies, bikini photos, but photos. Then you, you, you. Typically, not always, but oftentimes you paint this story that you. You got a sad backstory. My parents were killed, or I'm a student or I'm broke now. Billionaire nerd guys, like, I'll save you. I'll take care of you. You know what I mean? And it's. Then they also use another technique where they fake mutual connections. So they'll start following friends or they'll make friendships with your friends, and it's all totally fabricated. Then once trust is established, the psychological manipulation escalates. They'll make you doubt yourself. Things like, your boss doesn't appreciate you, your colleagues use you. Then they, you know, we understand each other. We're in this together. They'll create stress. You know, crazy. I'm reading all this stuff and I'm like. And they're well trained. Like, they know how.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now I imagine that's a. A better strategy than literally infiltrating like that and then trying to just steal from them. Stealing their ideas will be probably, probably harder to prove and get them like, right. Like, obviously she, if she in the point where having kids, she's got bank account access. She's got. She's probably got access to money. But doing that would get you caught up versus I'm just spying and giving.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, part of it is that, yeah.

[Doug]

All the information.

[Justin Andrews]

Part of it is sabotage. So here's this company and they're competitive, and I'm just going to stress him out. I'm going to make his home life like this terrible.

[Sal DeStefano]

The power of a woman.

[Justin Andrews]

Right there.

[Sal DeStefano]

There was a, There was a many empires.

[Justin Andrews]

There was a famous case of a congressman. Maybe you can find out, Doug, where, where the. Where it was found out that his girlfriend was a Chinese spy and he was a congressman.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so then what she'll do, she'll influence your voting or get, you know, more insider information or whatever. And I'm like listening to this. I'm like, this is. There's no defense. Like I said, you got a bunch of dudes, first of all. You just get a bunch of dudes. Let's just start there.

[Doug]

This is the oldest hustle that's existing.

[Justin Andrews]

You just get a bunch of dudes, okay. You don't even have to say anything else. And you get an attractive woman who seems intelligent, who's like, needs help or whatever. Like already he's weak, especially if he's single. And that's what she's saying. Typically will target single guys. Yeah. But if he's also a total dork and he never had that kind of attention. Yeah. Oh, my God. And then he's probably justifying, right? He's like, well, yeah, she's with me because I'm successful.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm helping her. So that's why this is. Meanwhile your friends are like, well, it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like a movie waiting to happen right there. I mean, did they, did they unveil anybody that's in the.

[Justin Andrews]

They have people who are giving like information now who are like, you know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Imagine being that guy, you know, and you f. You don't. You find out.

[Doug]

Oh, I know, right? You have kids with them.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at this, look at this. Christina Fang, known as Fang Fang. She was a Chinese spot who formed relationships with up and coming US Politicians. Okay, look at this picture. Yeah.

[Doug]

Deadly Fang.

[Justin Andrews]

You didn't score that girl. No, dude, come on, look at that guy. You're not that funny. You're not that charming.

[Doug]

I mean, he looks, he looks jolly.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, dude. But I mean, as I'm listening to this, I'm like, this is the most brilliant thing. Like, I like, there's no, like, what's the defense?

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, it's weird because like, even I was training quite high profile type Silicon Valley executives and whatnot. And you sit there and you're like, okay, I have to take this call. And it's like you try not to listen, but like I'm sitting there listening to really crazy important information, you know, that they're discussing and.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that how you made so much money or something?

[Doug]

Yeah, I definitely used it to my advantage.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't.

[Doug]

But, but I mean, it's like Steve Jobs or who likes on the phone. You're just like, whoa, it's. It's crazy. But you know, that trust, you could establish that trust pretty, pretty effectively.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then especially a woman like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, that's, I mean, you're just up next level.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, they're. I mean, imagine you're this guy and it hasn't came out yet, and then somebod knocks on your door to tell you like, that's.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, how many you imagine you've got like a six year.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. How many dudes did. Would deny. No, she's not, she's not. No, she's not.

[Justin Andrews]

I trust her. Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, she's not.

[Justin Andrews]

I love her. We love each other. Yeah, yeah. Devastating. Yeah. You mention how crushed. Oh. How crushed you would be. Yeah, maybe.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe. Is that the worst? Like, like that has to be worse than even, like imagine if you had kids with it. It's got to be worse than even having her step out on the marriage. Right. So worse than like finding out the.

[Justin Andrews]

Whole time she was working on you, she was working you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Okay. Put yourself in that position because the.

[Justin Andrews]

Whole thing's a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have you. One of the other happens to you. You don't have a choice either. She.

[Doug]

She.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Like right now, like we found out.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Our wives.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Right now, you either find out she's cheating on you, has another man and maybe even family.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. With someone else, or this whole time.

[Sal DeStefano]

She'S been working you and she's a spy.

[Justin Andrews]

And which one's worse?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, the spy.

[Justin Andrews]

Spy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Spy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Definitely. That would be. That would be because then. Then. Because here's the thing. Here's what your. Your head would rationalize for the cheating part.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it was good beginning. Or she still kind of could have loved it. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It was a rough. She did love me.

[Doug]

Where did it go wrong?

[Sal DeStefano]

Where spy is like.

[Justin Andrews]

She never loved.

[Sal DeStefano]

She never loved. It was all fake.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Devastating.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's way worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Devastating.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way, way, way worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that'd be great.

[Sal DeStefano]

That would crush me.

[Justin Andrews]

And you know, I think about the. Again, imagine if this was one of you guys or. Or me. Right. Like you would probably. I can imagine my head being like, well, she was a spy, but I know she loves me now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. You'll be in denial. You 100 would be. If she did that good of a job where you had kids and you've been together for six years.

[Justin Andrews]

That would turn.

[Sal DeStefano]

Even somebody telling you that would turn me celibate.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd be like, never nothing from the rest of my life.

[Doug]

I mean, I'm definitely China and retaliate.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you imagine the trauma you have that you never trust anybody after that.

[Justin Andrews]

Nobody. That's what I'm saying. I'd just be celibate forever. Oh, that be.

[Doug]

I'm like, I'm gonna start working for Huawei.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

What is honey, Honey pot.

[Justin Andrews]

You're so easy to fight. You wouldn't fit in.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're a spy in China. No, I don't think that's working for.

[Doug]

I'll be a spy, not obvious blend right in.

[Justin Andrews]

Stop you at the airport. You can't come in here, dude. Anyway, I thought that was. I thought that was crazy. I told you guys a story. And I don't mind saying this now because if she hears and screw you, just terrible. One of the worst experience I ever had. I had this. I had this woman who hired me to train her. And she was in her. I want to say mid-20s, and her. I didn't know much about her. Her at the time, fiance. They were about to get married. She came in to hire me. I Trained her once and she's like, hey, can you train me at my house? And I said, yeah. She's like, you know, I'd like you to train me and my soon to be husband. So I was like, okay, no problem. So we set up this package. They buy all this training. And I drove up for the first time to this house and it was the. I'd never seen a house like this in my life. It was. I think it was 17,000 square foot house.

[Caller/Guest]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. So I drive up to it and you know, I don't know if you guys ever had a client like this where you have no idea. And you start driving this neighborhood. You're like, okay, what's happening here? So I pull up to this ridiculous. Like, I've never seen a house like this in my. Still to this day. I've never seen how likes a house like this. I go up to it and I ring the doorbell and they, they, you know, they buzz me in. I walk in and I get lost. It's such a big house. I get lost. So I have to call them. I finally get to the room where we're working out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And she was like a 25 year old, stereotypical blonde, you know, like, you know, pretty blonde girl.

[Sal DeStefano]

Whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

He was. If you could imagine what a, what a like a tech nerd would look like if I were to tell you. Yeah, like classic glasses, skinny, super awkward dude. Yeah.

[Doug]

Really into Strava.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And he was, he was probably 40, so there's already a huge age gap. Yeah. And the whole workout, guys. She demeaned him so terribly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The whole workout. And I've never, I don't think I've ever told the story on the podcast. I refunded them because I couldn't handle it. Like, she was like, you're so weak. I can't believe you can't do that. And like horrible.

[Doug]

That's so awkward.

[Justin Andrews]

And I, And I remember the whole time I'm thinking in my head like, like, bro, I know why you're with her.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But this is not cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but isn't that, isn't that the highest. Okay, so the. It was really the man. What's that called? Okay. Where they pay for women to demean them.

[Justin Andrews]

And like, I don't think it was a kink. I think he was just.

[Sal DeStefano]

You say that, but that it's. It's that.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I could.

[Sal DeStefano]

That type of guy that is the. The most likely to high power.

[Doug]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Executive. Everyone tells you. Oh, he wasn't like that.

[Doug]

It's like billions.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I can tell. I could tell she was making these comments to him and he was just get crushed.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I told you that. So I had. I trained three different clients that. And I didn't even know this was a thing where we were. That were. That were male. Yeah. Mail order brides. And then same thing. Same exact thing. It was always like this kind of tech nerd guy, and he was like in his late 40s, early 50s, and she was like in her mid-20s.

[Justin Andrews]

At least he knows what.

[Sal DeStefano]

He barely spoke any English at all. And like, the first time I was like, totally lost. I was like, this is such an interesting relationship. And then by the second and the third one, I realized, like, oh, this is kind of a thing over here.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I had no idea that was. I didn't even know it was a thing until I started asking questions and someone's like, oh, yeah, that was probably a mail order bride. Looked it up. I'm like, oh, my God, that's totally what that was like.

[Justin Andrews]

But it was. I remember feeling so sad because the whole hour I trained him, she would make these little comments that were so. And he would get so crushed and so sad. And you could tell she's just making him feel like garbage the whole time. But I was so uncomfortable in front of another man. Yeah, dude. In front of.

[Caller/Guest]

You know what I mean?

[Justin Andrews]

And she'd make a comment about me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like that, why don't you have arms like Sal?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you know, maybe you're right. Maybe afterwards.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm telling you, I'm telling you, that's.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly what I want.

[Sal DeStefano]

Equates. I mean, I don't even know how. How we make Doug Google search this, but I know that that's like. That's like a. That's like a. A popular, you know, kink for. And it tends to be that guy. The guy that has a lot of power, a lot of money, a lot of success. Used to being told yes. And so they want someone to be.

[Doug]

Like, feared at work.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, there's a. There's a. There's a. There's a genre of. Of guys that literally just take abuse virtually. They don't even get. They don't even see the, like, they give women money to like. I forget what it's called. Well, there's a name for it where they like. Well, the ones basically punk them and make them. These. Humiliate them.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

They humiliated. They punk them and they make them give him money. Give me a thousand dollar. You need to give me a thousand and Then, like, the guys, this was.

[Justin Andrews]

His fiance, though, you know what I mean? It wasn't like he was paying, like, he's gonna be married to this girl.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's just it. So that's even better than paying for it for some random stranger. You marry it so you get it every day. I mean, if that's your thing. Right, that's your thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Whatever. Yeah, I was uncomfortable and I mean, when it's that. And I made up some excuse like, I can't drive over here. It's not gonna work. And I refunded him.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, you gotta think, if it was trim separately, if it was not normal and he was really that uncomfortable, he probably wouldn't have even wanted you come back. You chose not to come back.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but I. I don't know. That was my perception. Maybe you're right.

[Sal DeStefano]

How old are you at that time? 20. What?

[Justin Andrews]

It was. I was probably. That's a good question. I was probably in my mid-20s.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, mid.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So I'd been already training for a while. I mean, who knows? I could be wrong. Didn't. I don't care either way, I was uncomfortable as hell. I'm not coming here anymore. I mean, even more, what you said is true. Even worse, I know I made the right decision.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No matter what. That'd be weird.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it's crazy. Anyway. Anyway, I got it. You know, I. I got to tell you about. So, you know, my series has been going on, and I did an episode with Jason Calipa, so everybody probably knows who he is, but I'll say, you know, if you don't, he's like a CrossFit stud.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, he, you know, he won early on as a young kid. Super. And he's just also this really good guy. We've had him on the show a couple times, and each time I've talked with him, you know, you just meet someone who's, you know, genuine. He's a very genuine, nice guy. And he. I had him in my series, and it was a great. It was such a great time working out with him, talking about faith, hearing his journey and just. And so that's up right now, and I'm getting all these great comments from people, but it was just. It's really great. Just want to shout out to him, man, just running into people in the fitness space who are that influential, who are also that humble and authentic. Is rare. Yeah, Is rare.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did he talk about his men's group in the morning and how big it is now? You know, how many people we were trying to figure out the other day.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't ask him how many people, but it's getting huge. What's cool, too, is why we were talking. He's like, you know, for the last. For the prior year, he had worked with a team that was helping him build his social media presence. Yeah. And he goes. And I fired them because it was a lot of like, you know, stuff that works on social media, poking fun.

[Sal DeStefano]

At people and gimmicky stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, I don't like it, dude. He goes. He goes. Personally, he goes, if I know what the mission and the purpose is and I feel good about it, then the business will follow. And if it doesn't, so be it. He goes, I don't. It didn't feel right to just poke at people and try to talk.

[Doug]

Integrity.

[Sal DeStefano]

Does he still have all his gyms? He had 31 locations. I don't know the very first week.

[Justin Andrews]

Because we had more business.

[Sal DeStefano]

We had him on the show twice. And the first time I asked him about the clubs and I was just really interested in the business side of everything that he did. And I know he had like 31 gyms all over the world, too. They're not just like. I think. I know he's. He's like worldwide. But I remember how him talking about how difficult. I mean, the. The amount of revenue he was generating with and the fact that he had to have 31 gyms to generate that.

[Justin Andrews]

That was a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of work, a lot of stress. I'm curious of where he's at in his life now, if he's still. Still managing that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I mean, I know his one over here does really well.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Very popular.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But even got a loyal following again because he's a good guy.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's crazy, though. So. So, I mean, I look at the opposite way, is not because it's successful, but someone of his much is as famous as he is, as good as he is smart. All the. All the. He has all the right attributes, qualities to run the successful thing. Still, it's not a lot of money for the amount of work and effort. Like, people just have no idea.

[Justin Andrews]

Purpose for. Driven. Yeah, he is very purpose driven. Has a lot of integrity. And every time I hang out with him, it just keeps confirming, you know, he put together, if I'm not mistaken, a charity after his daughter, what his daughter went through.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah. They do a. They do a big dinner every year. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, really cool. So he's just. And the men's Thing that he does in the morning is free. So you have a top level celebrity CrossFit, you know, guy who takes. I don't know how many men show up now. 100, you know, at least 50 in the morning. And he does it. He. And he wakes up early, he brings the equipment, he packs up his truck, he brings it over there and he charges nothing.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of respect for that. A lot of discipline just to do that. You know what I'm saying? Just to get up and to do that. Three kids or two.

[Justin Andrews]

I think he has two.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I know he has two or three.

[Justin Andrews]

I can't remember. I can't remember. You know, it's also funny too, is every. I love every time I'm hanging out with a top level athlete in any sport. Just my, you know, my, my fitness brink. I know you guys are like this. You just notice the genetic, like where they are advantages with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you just see like, oh, yeah, this guy, you know, he is a. He is a chimp. I told him that too. So you're like such a champ.

[Doug]

He's a gorilla grip dude.

[Justin Andrews]

He's got these big old, you know, hands and just like, he's like a total classic mesomorph, you know, you heavily muscled.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're around him. Justin. I know you're around a lot of gymnastic parents. Is there. Have you guys had any situations recently with all the parents that you've been around? Have you picked up dad tips or any dad hacks? Anything that you picked up from another parent that you went oh for like.

[Justin Andrews]

Getting their kids to just period.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like anything in general. Like, you know, the last time you seen something that somebody else did and you're like, oh, that's cool.

[Justin Andrews]

Or.

[Sal DeStefano]

I like that. Like, I want to implement something like that.

[Doug]

Just like a stadium chair. I was like, oh, that's cool.

[Justin Andrews]

Not like that, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not like that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's brilliant. Yeah.

[Doug]

I was like, wow, you were sitting.

[Justin Andrews]

A bench for four hours. I know.

[Doug]

My back was hurting. It's like, you really figured this out.

[Justin Andrews]

Guy kind of snacks you got.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not what I was doing.

[Justin Andrews]

Stadium chair and snacks.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I just, I'm always kidding. I mean, we just had Sean Stevenson in the store, in this, in the shop. And I was telling you, asking him a question in there. I wanted to hear about his experience with his kids. And, and I'm always looking for that for especially parents, like people that I can relate to as far as like, you know, the, the business, the success that he's had while also Raising kids and everything like that. So can you remember the last thing or has there been anything?

[Justin Andrews]

Not really.

[Doug]

It's more like, because everybody has their own dynamic. It's like unique to them and like a lot of times it's, they do a lot, like they're obsessive over multiple sports and, and traveling and like, so I, A lot of the parents that I tend to hang out with are kind of like, I mean, they're very into what their kids doing, but then they're like gone. They're gonna go take them to soccer now. They're gonna go take them to this traveling team in this one. And like I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out how to kind of keep them focused on the one thing. And then, you know, we have good conversations about like their training and you know, what they're doing nutrition wise and all that kind of stuff. And they asked me a lot of questions about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I mean, that's, that's a good point though too. Okay, so I guess I gotta reframe this even differently. Yeah. I'm trying to think like, because maybe.

[Doug]

Life advice I don't really get from.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, not even that. So like. Or maybe that's because what you said, like, you learn from that. Just you're doing the, like. I'm doing the opposite because I can, I could make cases for that too where I see, like, where I see, apparently. Yeah. What not to do. You know what I'm saying? Like, can you remember the last thing that you've seen or that made you go like, oh, I need, I, I need to pay attention to that because I don't want that.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's crazy on the data on, on some of that involvement is they, so you guys know the whole, like, you've heard this before, right?

[Doug]

I see the strain that really puts on.

[Justin Andrews]

So you've, you guys have heard this, right? Like when you're married, a mistake people often make is they place their children above themselves.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Or above each other.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So what you find in the data is when husband and wife prioritize each other above the kids, the kids have a better outcome. Everybody has a better outcome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Which is counterintuitive because when you have kids, you love them so much. And I can see in some ways you'll love them even more than your spouse. In some ways. Because they're innocent, they're kids. All that stuff where it's like, no, the kids come first, kids come first. And when you look at the data, if you place your Kids first, then actually they suffer as a result.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you know why I think that's so hard? I think that a lot of people are in tough marriages or relationships, and then they have the kid. And because the kid is so much to focus on, it distracts them from the best part of it, root issues. And, and, and then, and then the relation, the relationship seems to get better because maybe the fighting isn't as bad or they're not. They're not.

[Justin Andrews]

Because they're busy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because they're busy.

[Justin Andrews]

And then they're.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they, and they're both probably good people and they want to have a good kid. And so they, they're both kind of attacking that. And so they think that the kid is like, help the marriage. But really all it really did was like, put that to the side.

[Justin Andrews]

Divorce, spike when kid moves out.

[Sal DeStefano]

So when the kid. And I bet you that's almost always. That's the relationship. Where that happens is like, they never really addressed the problems in the relationship before the kids. The kids just be created this great distraction. And because they both cared about being good parents so bad, they just said, oh, we'll forget about our marriage and we'll just.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that's a valid theory. I've seen data on this. So of course we got to go. You know, let's, let's look at data. And if you have a not good relationship, adding kids to it typically makes it worse. But here's what the data also shows, that a good relationship can often get strained when a child is involved. And it's typically. Well, let me ask you guys, who is the one that typically is challenged the most with placing the child above the marriage? Husband or wife, mom or dad? It's typically mom. And this is where. This is what the data shows. Mom suddenly becomes a mom. Now, my kids are everything. Husband is down here. And so then husband becomes resentful towards. Mom doesn't know how to verbalize it because meanwhile, while she's taking care of the kids. And then you feel selfish because you're like, well, you know, okay, well, she's.

[Doug]

With the kids sitting in the backseat.

[Justin Andrews]

And this causes big problems. And it's typically mom and the. And what makes it so challenging is if you tell a mom this, good luck, good luck saying, hey, you put your kids above your husband. Well, yeah, it's my kids. You know, of course they need more, you know, this, that, and the other. So that's, that's what the data shows.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, a lot of female clients I trained, they were aware of that, because I remember that being something that I would. I would communicate when I get a mom that I was about to train. And it always hit home when I talk about, you know, your whole life. You probably put all these other people above yourself, and it's time to take care of yourself. Most of them were pretty aware of that. I'd have to say that in our. In our house, it's. It's different. I wouldn't. Katrina was like, I remember a part of what I think I was.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys do a good job prioritizing each other.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, she. Well, she was very adamant about that from day one. Like, she was just.

[Justin Andrews]

She likes. Makes time make sure that you guys have time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, she was always that it's us first, you know, it's us. It's us versus him, versus, like, it's. It's him and then us. It's. It's us, you know? And so since day one, she's always prioritized our relate. And she's been good about it even before Max, because I'd say our work was our baby before having a son. And I've always deferred that power and control to her of like, hey, when you feel like we're not connecting enough or doing enough, you don't have to talk to me about it. You literally just say, you're not going anywhere. We're going here. And I'll always concede because I trust you to see that better than me, you know, and let me do what I do really well, which is bury myself into the thing for us. And then. And then you pull me up for air when you think that's awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Do that.

[Doug]

Courtney's always been good about that, too. It's just like, I think sometimes, because we divide and conquer, and we're like, we look at it so much that we're a team, and that there's times, too, where it's like, we have two kids, and so one has this event over here, and then, you know, one has this here, and, like, how can we, you know, be most effective with this? And so sometimes it will get into this. Like, enough of these events happen where we're separate and we're separate, and then it becomes a bit of strain, and we don't realize that that's adding up. And, like. So, like, to get on top of that and really prioritize the dating again, I think that's something where it slips. But we.

[Sal DeStefano]

I.

[Doug]

We acknowledge it.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I date once a week. Yeah, it sounds so silly, but it makes a huge Difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's, you know, I. For us, I think it's easy. But I've. I've often said this to Katrina when I think about you guys with multiple kids, because I think about, like, one of the things that makes it really easy is that, like, at all times, Katrina's mom is available for us to do that. But I don't know if I handed her a six year old and a newborn by herself or if you didn't.

[Justin Andrews]

Have family like that. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, so then, then it would be really, really tough. Like, we've talked about it. It's like, man, we're really blessed that we've got family. We've got our mom. We've got. But it's like, but if we had two, it would throw a curveball at it because it's not like I. I can't see her. Her mom taking a newborn and Max would be a lot. That's a lot for her, her mom, especially in all day. Like, we can just take off for a day or two. And so that would change this up a lot. And so I think that would. And then, then it only gets more as they get older and sports in.

[Justin Andrews]

Different directions, and it gets super complex. It's like, okay, well, I have family nearby. Well, okay, get a nanny. I can't afford a nanny. Well, what do I do now? And so what some people will do is you'll have families doing life together and they'll work with each other. So, hey, you know, Wednesday nights, we'll take your kids. Thursday nights, we'll take your kids. But it has to be a program that's been.

[Doug]

I guess if I want to go back to your original question about, like, with other parents, I started to be more open about offering that, like, we can take your kids, practice. We can, you know, provide whatever. Like, they can stay at the hotel with us. You know, when we travel here, like, we offer it first as opposed to, like, you know, just kind of.

[Justin Andrews]

And they tend to give it back.

[Doug]

Yeah. And it's reciprocated and it's. It's been very helpful. Especially now we have to travel more with, like, the school. It's like 45 minutes and, you know, it's been a pain. The scheduling has been a pain. Yeah, that helped.

[Sal DeStefano]

I wish. I mean, Sal, this isn't for you because you pro.

[Justin Andrews]

You.

[Sal DeStefano]

You saw this, I think better maybe. And I'm curious, Justin, if you. What you. You were like, like, I wish somebody would have communicated to me. I probably would have been less of a pain in the Ass to be with in my 20s and 30s, if someone would have really communicated the. The value of family with Raise kid. It seems obvious, but it really. It really wasn't that obvious.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, give yourself some credit though, bro. You didn't have the. The grass.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know, but like, I wish so. But I wish so. I wish someone would have hammered that home to me because then I probably would have. I would have had way more patience even when I didn't have a kid. Of the value of that. Where I was such a little brat. Like. Of just like, I don't want to do this. Like, this is. Oh, like the.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, why do we have to meet with the family?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Why.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why we again, you know, we're just there three days ago. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, again, like, yeah, I don't want to go. Like, I was. I was such a little brat about that because I didn't. I didn't. Until having my son. I didn't see that. And then I'm like, okay, I can't be alone. Of the only person who didn't realize how important and how valuable. And then just the power of that. The power of. Of the family dynamic and community of having a grandmother and aunts and uncles that. That all have a relationship with him, not just for him and the value of what it's raising, but then to what we're. How this conversation started. Just how important it is that we stay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like that.

[Doug]

Like.

[Justin Andrews]

And I gotta add something to this because you also. Or have become this. You particularly or specifically flexible with the fact that he's with people. That may not completely mirror all of your exact. Like, grandma's gonna buy him a toy, give him some candy, or maybe he'll watch more tv, whatever. Because that could also be a problem. You could also be like, no, we're not going over there. Because then it's not gonna be exactly what I find. My.

[Sal DeStefano]

I resist.

[Justin Andrews]

I've heard you talk about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. I resist that a little bit. And I have to. And I know I have to. It's easier now that he's 6 because I feel like I've built a foundation. It was harder when he was like 2, 3, 4. When I felt like I was laying that foundation. I feel like.

[Justin Andrews]

But I've heard you over the years. I've heard you go through this process. Yeah, it's been a loosening up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It's been a pro. And I'm sure a lot of other parents struggle with this. When you, when you.

[Justin Andrews]

For sure. We've had callers that have said this.

[Sal DeStefano]

When you're, when you're trying to lay this, this, this, this new, these new set of values or foundations or beliefs or nutritional habits or movement habits or non television habits with your child. And if they're integrated into a family that doesn't value any of those things very much, it's, it can be really challenging. But what I, what I love is that if, you know, it was a little bit of a push and pull for the first, you know, five, six years, once you establish that, it's, it's actually really easy now. It's so cool. Like, it's so cool to hear stories of them telling me like, hey, we asked him if you want to go to McDonald's. He's like, no, I, I don't eat that or I don't want that. It's just like, you know, make the kid happy. Yeah. No, I love, I mean, I love it. I love that they, they can offer or try those things and they realize that he doesn't even care.

[Justin Andrews]

That's my son. Does it have red dye? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's. I absolutely love that he can, that he's like. But early on, but it wasn't like that, so. But I get you for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Speaking of integration, whatever I have now, I've told you this last couple times, so green Juice now has made it into my regular daily repertoire because we have it here in the studio. I've been using it pretty daily and it's interesting, every time I use it consistently, I'm always like, why did I stop in the first. A nice feel good product.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And we talked earlier about need reminders. Yeah, yeah. And we talked earlier about probiotics. What goes along with that is creating an environment that fosters good bacteria growth. And the, you know, the, the organifi. Green juice is one of the things that'll do. It'll feed good bacteria.

[Sal DeStefano]

Would you pay a premium for it to be in a ready to drink?

[Doug]

I'd drink it, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. But I wonder if that would, if they'd have to add things to prevent it from, you know, degrading or something like that. There's complications with keeping things in liquid form versus it being freeze, you know, freeze dried or in a dried powder in terms of shelf life.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I wonder if that would be. Yeah, because I don't know any company that has a ready to drink green juice.

[Justin Andrews]

There are, but they have like a shelf life typically. And it's not this. It's not. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, because I know I would.

[Justin Andrews]

Because it's real food.

[Sal DeStefano]

I would. I would pay a premium for that.

[Doug]

Yeah, they're perishable. Usually. Like.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know, I know. It would ramp the cost of extremely high, though. I mean, I think the average person would be like, forget that. Give me that.

[Justin Andrews]

But they're so convenient. You get the little packets.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I know, but look at. Even look at you. I mean, look at your elements. You guys all drink, like, now. Now that we have the ready to drinks.

[Doug]

I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

When was last time you mixed a packet?

[Doug]

I'm a sucker.

[Justin Andrews]

We do it at home all. Oh, do you guys? All the time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I still. I rarely. Now that they have the ready to drinks. I mean, the only way you'll get me using the packets now is if my ready drinks are gone. If I actually dip through all of them and then it's like, oh, damn, I'm out. And I gotta use the packet because I. I love the fact I use the.

[Justin Andrews]

I use a little organifi. Packets. The little single serving.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those are.

[Justin Andrews]

They are to a bottle of water.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I don't.

[Doug]

Yeah, the bottle of water makes it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I typically don't have one of those bottles with me. That's why. I think that's why I'm bringing that up is like, I'm always, like, looking for. You know, ever since we moved to the new house, one of the like. Like, there's a. There's a couple things that I did. And I know, Justin, you're in the middle of still building yours. I can't stress to you these little details of making sure as you are building your thing from ground up, you have, like, having a purified water on tap.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

One of my biggest pet peeves was filling up water jugs or water bottles all over my house all the time.

[Doug]

Oh, my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just.

[Doug]

That was one of the first things in the morning. And so Courtney's done a really good job of, like. Like, we don't have any plastic bottle. Like, I'm the worst. Like, I'll go buy a plastic water bottle because I'm just like, convenience first. But so I'm there, like, helping her get the. The kids ready for school and filling up their water bottle. And it's like, they don't fit, like, in there perfectly. So you can't just leave it in there, you know? Like, I want one that's, like, big enough so you can have, like a big.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Doug]

So it's easy to put in there. But yeah, it's Such a pain. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

You have reverse osmosis. Do you remineralize? Does it add minerals to it?

[Sal DeStefano]

I. I have the. I don't know if that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, no, you have to add that to your device.

[Justin Andrews]

So you could buy trace minerals and add a couple drops to like a couple gallons of water and get it. Yeah, that's what I do. Yeah. Otherwise it's just water.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So is that necessary if I'm still doing things like element and green juice?

[Justin Andrews]

Probably not.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I was gonna say I didn't think. I didn't think it was that big of a deal if I was doing. If I was doing stuff like that. Obviously that was the only thing I drank. But I drink. I always get an element or a green juice in a day. But I mean, that little things like that. I'll tell you, like, I think about all these little.

[Doug]

Yeah, that would be a hack for me.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not crazy. It wasn't crazy expensive. It was just a matter of planning it. Like, hey, this sink is going to be dedicated to the water purifier. Reverse osmosis.

[Doug]

That and it's the charging station. Like, specifically, I have that all mapped out because it's just like the. The kids devices and things for school.

[Justin Andrews]

And all these things.

[Doug]

And like, dude, I need it organized and I need it all in one place. Plus, then I could be like, put it in the charging station and then it's dedicated to that. So the rest of, like the house, it's like, there's no electronics anywhere else.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm. I'm pass of almost a year. Right. Of being in this place. And if you were to ask me to list these things, it would be all these quirky, dorky little things.

[Justin Andrews]

Dimmers.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have dimmers on every light switch in the entire house.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a big deal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which is like a big deal. Such a little thing. Yeah, but it's such a dumb little thing that, like, they don't build the house like that. Unless you say something like, you're like, I want every light switch in here to have a dimmer. Every single light switch in the entire house has a dimmer to it. The stupid, you know, reverse osmosis water thing. I've got the. The cubed, like, slushy ice. Which was like, such a big deal. Yeah. Like, that's a huge deal. You know, it's like, these are the things that I go, like, this was the best investment ever.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what? To the light dimmer thing. You don't put the right light bulbs. Yeah. In Your. In your lights with that. If one of them is wrong, you get this weird sometimes flickering thing going on, which I have to figure out now in my house because it happens in my house. It's like one of these lights is. The light bulb is doing this. I gotta go.

[Sal DeStefano]

I learned from our. Our Truckee place because of all the light bulbs, which we do. Like, when we. That was the other thing I did when I bought it was like, I stocked up on, like, backup plan. I have a backup storage for every bulb in the place so that if.

[Justin Andrews]

That happens, this is the most dad conversation.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, the only thing more than that is, like, talking about barbecue or directions.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Or new shoes that you don't need to lace.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What kind of antacids are you taking?

[Caller/Guest]

Well, I just.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just think because I know Justin's in the thick of this right now, and I. I literally. We just rolled. I can't believe it's been a year. We just rolled past a year of our place. And, you know, I mean, I love all of it. And it's. And it's awesome. It's beautiful. Blessed all the things. But it's like when I actually think of the things that. Like those little things.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That give me the most joy, they're not things that cost the most amount of money, which is thinking through that. Like, I value that a lot. And like, your charging station is a great example of that. Like, making sure you have something like that. You're like, oh, this is such.

[Doug]

Well, it's just the.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I think the. The everything has to have a place. And that's my mentality. Like, going into a new place. Like, I want organization and, like, cohesion and, you know, limb taking shoes off. It's like. You put it right here. Right. Because it's like this pile that I'm constantly.

[Justin Andrews]

God bless my wife. She is. Oh, my God, she's gifted.

[Sal DeStefano]

You don't care about none of that stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

No. Why? I care about it, but I suck at it. I'm just. I'm just not good.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's good for. I want somebody else to do it for me.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm so blessed. The clutter kills me, so. My wife is so gifted in how she designs and organizes the house so that it's both aesthetic and it's also practical. Yeah. And she makes things look so, like, I would be the worst. Oh, my God. My house would be bare walls. There'd be just chairs and tables and nothing.

[Doug]

I'm a little neurotic with that.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you.

[Doug]

Yeah, you'll see. Yeah, it's very design, like, heavy.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't have an eye for that at all. At all.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think I do either. But I value it and appreciate it. You know what I'm saying? So.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I know you and Jessica and you would share pictures. She likes to send you stuff. Yeah, I'm an idiot. So, Adam, do you like this? Yeah, it's good. But you got. You reminded me. You just remind me of something about, like, little quirky things. My grandmother used to have toilet seats that were cushioned. Yeah, I used a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had a grandma that had those. I love those because they stay warm.

[Justin Andrews]

Do they make those anymore? Probably.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, they have to. They have to be somebody.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm gonna buy some. Okay.

[Doug]

But I. You know, one thing I never understood was the carpet around it. Why would you ever do that?

[Justin Andrews]

I have carpet around the toilet every time.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's still like. That's still a thing. That's still a thing where you have the carpet right there.

[Justin Andrews]

Because your feet, you want them to be warm or whatever. Yeah, I know. Cushion toilet seat seats. That's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I didn't do, I didn't do in the house because I actually didn't do a lot of. I would have. If I redid bathroom floors and. And toilets, I didn't redo those. When I do, I will do heated floors and a heated toilet seat because that. I get up and pee and go to the bathroom and I sit all in the middle. And there's nothing like, we're winners here now. There's nothing like. I can't believe cold, cold ass cheeks on a seat at 2:00 in the morning.

[Justin Andrews]

I can't believe you have. You're like the most constant confident man I've ever heard. I know that. Just loves to talk about how he sits down to pee. Respect.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's just like, oh, there you go. There's your cushion seats. Whoa, Whoa.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a 91 seat. What does that one do?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I don't know. It has a gel seat.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know why?

[Justin Andrews]

It's super comfy.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I think is, what seems kind of weird about himself is the cleaning. The cleaning of it. You have to have a material that really wipes good clean. Vinyl is vinyl. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Just spray it down with some Lysol and you're good.

[Sal DeStefano]

But they stay warmer. That's what's nice about those.

[Adam Schafer]

You need a Japanese toilet seat. A Japanese toilet.

[Sal DeStefano]

The crazy ones that have, like a.

[Adam Schafer]

Button, they have heated seats, they have bidet, they have air drying, all that.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're almost too much.

[Doug]

Yeah, I've seen some.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, hold on. You air dry your butthole after you, you, you.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, if you have a Japanese.

[Sal DeStefano]

Toilet, it has like a. A blower on her and everything. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You want. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You want to drive?

[Sal DeStefano]

You've seen those before.

[Justin Andrews]

I have, but I've never air. They sent a nice little brown eye whisper.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, there's times, there's times where it'd be like, it would be nice to have that, but that's like you got time. You know what I'm saying? That's. You know those dad moments where you go to the bathroom and you're like going to the bathroom to get peace and so you're planning on like a 30 minute restroom break. Like that's where a toilet. Like that's awesome. You know what I'm saying?

[Justin Andrews]

I've been banned from the long toilet visits. Can't do anything anymore. It was such a huge fight. Oh, I know. I did so bad.

[Doug]

It's your safe space, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but it's just.

[Sal DeStefano]

You submitted, huh? You gave up. Well, it's just I stuck my ground on that. This is staked. I stick.

[Justin Andrews]

You want a she?

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll build you a sheet. You're not taking this away from me. You could have a.

[Justin Andrews]

You could have a lot of areas.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can't take this from me. This is my. This is my time. This is my only time.

[Doug]

I need to get away.

[Caller/Guest]

She may.

[Justin Andrews]

Good points. All right, fine, whatever. You know why?

[Sal DeStefano]

You know why you abused it. You faked it too many times.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not even that. It's just you're there, so it's just like, you know, nobody's around.

[Doug]

Where is he?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, and he's unrealized.

[Doug]

I sloped a little elusive, a little mysterious.

[Justin Andrews]

That's all. I stopped.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

The best electrolyte powder is element. It's got the right amount of sodium to make a difference. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar. Add it to your water. Tastes great. Go check it out. Go to drinklement.com mindpump with that link, you'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink, mixed flavors with any purchase. Back to the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our first caller is Jerry from New York.

[Justin Andrews]

Jerry, what's up, man?

[Sal DeStefano]

How you doing? What's going on, guys?

[Justin Andrews]

Happening good. How's it going? How can we help you? Here we are.

[Caller/Guest]

So guy sent the email in a few wipeout a bunch of golf. Listen I can't put weight on no matter what I do. I've done every freaking split you could imagine.

[Sal DeStefano]

I eat like a house, but I.

[Caller/Guest]

Also move a lot. Super active. I do like 18, 000 steps a day.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, I play ball. I play basketball once or twice a week.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that too, huh? What's that? You do that too, huh? On top of all, I do. Well, that's a lot on top of that.

[Caller/Guest]

But I'm a construction. I'm in the construction in the city. So, you know, I'm lifting sheetrock all day, you know, metal studs.

It's just.

It's just a ton of stuff that I do. But no matter what I do, I. Right now I'm focusing on compound movements. You know, two or three times a week, about 45 minutes in and out, decent rest periods. You know, a minute and a half to three minutes.

Figure.

I eat 3, 500 calories a day. I don't. I can't get results no matter what I do.

[Justin Andrews]

You're not getting stronger either, Jerry.

[Caller/Guest]

I wouldn't say that I can. I would definitely say I'm definitely stronger than I've ever been, ever.

Even.

Even in my 20s. I'm stronger now, in my mid-40s than I was now.

[Justin Andrews]

Good. Good strength is going to lead to size eventually. So at that point, then it becomes a calorie gain. There's a couple things you could do. You could stop the basketball, but if it sounds like you enjoy it, yeah, I won't tell you to do that. The other thing you could do is do less in the gym. I wouldn't do more than two days a week. Three days a week is probably too much. And then I would really, consistently, consistently every single day eat 35 plus 100 calories. Because what's probably happening, and I'd love your feedback on this or your opinion is you're probably some days eating 35, some days eating 3 or 25, sometimes eating 4. So it might not be averaging as many calories as you think. That typically is what happens with people. So I would always go 35, minimum, up to 4,000. Lift two days a week. And if you keep getting stronger, the muscle will come on your body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, too big. You're literally describing. I mean, I wasn't in construction, but I was carrying weights around all day as a personal trainer, eight to ten hours a day. So, like you, I was burning or I was making 15, 20,000 steps every day. Then I was training three to four times a week, and then I was playing basketball. At least two times a week and same boat just couldn't. And I mean, I think I was eating like 4,000 calories and I just felt like I couldn't, I couldn't gain it all. Couple strategies that. A bit controversial that I'll share that word. For me, I just, I had to find places to sneak in calories and so I, this was a time where I started drinking like the fully loaded sugar rock stars like pre basketball. I know that's terrible health advice, but I mean I, I had to find ways that I could sneak in an extra 400 calories. And I tried to make sure I did it when I was doing activity like that. Because when you're, when you're playing ball, I'm sure you could play for a good hour, two hours plus at high intensity like that. I mean that's, that's super aerobic and it, and that tells your body it's tough to build muscle while you're doing something that. And so the, the one thing that will help it does it ensure that you're not still going to have a hard time, but will help it is making sure you slam some liquid calories right before and right afterwards. Now, in a perfect world, you do something healthy. You blend a shake and you, you have some fruit. And that would be the, the ideal advice. But I know how, you know, I don't know what it looked like for you, but playing basketball was sometimes last minute I'm in the gym, like, oh, the right guys are playing. I'm like, I just grab my, my sneakers and I go right in and then I'm playing. Like a lot of times the only option I had was, oh, in the refrigerator they had a, you know, rock star. I just grabbed real quick and I would pound it. So some, that a lot of times will help you sneak those calories in when you need it most right before you play.

[Justin Andrews]

And just to add to that, you know, if you have sugar before you're very active. It does. And this is controversial, but this is just what the data shows. It largely negates what we would consider the negative effects of that sugar intake. So the insulin spike and all that. Like if you have. Even if it was juice, which is the same thing, people are almost the same thing because you're so active right afterwards, you don't get a lot of the negative effects that you might get from a large intake of sugar. The other thing you could do, Jerry, is if you could have dairy. Are you okay with dairy?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, that doesn't bother me.

[Sal DeStefano]

That Much.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, bro. If you had, if you took a, if you had a quart of whole milk every day, you know, with your meals, you drank a glass of whole milk with every meal, that's an easy 400 extra calories plus protein in that. And that's real easy. That's real easy way to add extra calories. And it doesn't feel like you're eating a ton more food.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, the common thing you're hearing from us right now is like sneaking in these liquid calories, which is kind of the opposite of what we normally tell people. But when you're in this.

[Justin Andrews]

Understood.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. When you're in this situation, it. And you already feel like you eat a lot of food, it's tough to just eat more food. You're already stuffed. And so finding places that you can slide in the extra 2, 400 calorie drinks. Like, even if it's like after a meal, slamming that milk down or right before you work out or right before you go play ball slamming that sugar drink like those things will. Because it is, it's purely a calorie thing. You just, if you ate, let's just say, you know, for argument's sake, 5, 000 calories every single day, you'd gain weight. You just. Would you. But it's like you move so much and you're active, you play ball, you're just at a place where it's really tough to stay consistently. And then the other thing I would, I would also say we didn't ask you, but it's so, so paramount that you hit protein consistently. So I don't know if you do, if you're good about that or not, but that's.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, I'm up. I'm around 100, I weigh about 185. I'm around 180 to 190 in grams of protein per pound of body weight consistently.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you do that consistently and then just sneaking those calories in, you'll be good, bro. That's the secret to this. Yep.

[Caller/Guest]

And you, you suggest that you suggest. Just do the compound movements, the five compound movements.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're actually.

[Caller/Guest]

I had back surgery, so I try to be careful. So I do the trap, I do the trap bar overhead. I'll do some sort of row. Not consistently like a bent over row, but whether machine row. And then I'll do goblet squats because it's teaser my back or heel elevated. And then I do some sort of.

[Sal DeStefano]

This one.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know. You do. I think you're Good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You're.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you see our epic. Did you hear our great eight episode? We put eight exercises on there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And there's a couple you could modify, like a barbell squat, if that bothers you can modify that, especially if there's a belt squat. If you go to a gym with a belt squat, that's great for people with back issues, but. Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

So the one where you. The one. That's the machine, Right. It's got a belt hooked up to it.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. It's a really, really good replacement.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can. You could load it a lot. And it doesn't put that stress on that low back, so it pulls on the hips. It's a great option. So are Bulgarian split squats, too. So there's a lot of other things you can do like that. That's a. But I actually, when you said what you were doing, lifting wise, I don't think you're far off from an ideal workout. Like, you're only training three times a week. I think Sal's right. Maybe scale a little bit back. But you're only in there 45 minutes. You're doing the big lip, you're doing the good lifts.

[Justin Andrews]

You're.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think it's your workout. I think it's purely calories. It's just getting in enough calories consistently.

[Caller/Guest]

And not putting too much body fat on with that.

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you're. Well, yeah. If you go crazy with it, you'll put on a ton of body fat, but. Right. Honestly, I think. Let's just say for, you know, the conversation, you were averaging 3, 500 calories a day. That was your actual average. Every day you went up to 4, 000. You're not going to gain body fat. You'll just build muscle. Okay. You know, 500 extra calories a day is not going to make you fat. Right?

[Caller/Guest]

All right, that's perfect.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You got it, ma'. Am.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Keep us posted. Jerry, I'm curious. I'm curious how this goes for you. I know. I know how challenged this can be trying to eat like this.

[Caller/Guest]

I definitely will. I'm gonna. I'll email you as soon as I'll give you some progress updates.

[Justin Andrews]

I appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

My friend. All right, get back to work. Thanks. Thanks, guys. Yeah. Bye. Bye.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, sorry. He's. Could he be more New York while we're talking? He's looking around. He's like, who's looking at me? What are you looking at over there?

[Doug]

Very shifty.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, it's Listen, it's a uncommon question from a middle aged man. You don't often hear that. This is usually teenage boys go through this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But I've worked with the occasional blue collar worker and the amount of activity that they do is insane.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, and if you pair that with two days of basketball a week and you're. When you're playing picket ball, you're playing for hour and a half, two hours easily every time and high intensity. So you're burning, man.

[Justin Andrews]

I remember as a kid I was, you know, 16 year old kid who works out and is fit and I, in the summers I'd work with my dad and I would be toasted by the end of the day. It's, I just was, I just wasn't used to it. And these, you know, 50 year old men would smoke me because for 20 years what they've been doing, you know, so adapted, it is very, you're just active. All work, work, work, work all day long. It's a tremendous amount of calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I'm going to add one more thing. If he listens to this, it's a bit. Also another controversial piece of advice for someone who's asking a question like this. He's at 13 to 15% body fat. Sometimes what I'll do little, I will go in a little cut first because he's already struggling to hit calories and then I'd say if that's really hard right now, why don't we do this? Let's just keep your diet tight, stay hit the protein intake, allow yourself to lean out even more. Get down to like 7, 8% body fat and then go the other direction and sometimes just going in that deficit for a while like that creates that appetite where you're like, oh my God, I'm so.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what the challenge with that is? He may notice fatigue at work and all that stuff but honestly, he also might have been recomping if he's getting stronger.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right, right.

[Justin Andrews]

With what he was doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just moving slow.

[Justin Andrews]

He's just not seeing the scale go up. You know, it's very gradual.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our next caller is Luke from Tennessee.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, what's up man?

[Sal DeStefano]

How you doing? What's up, dude? Good.

[Caller/Guest]

How you guys doing? A pleasure to be here. I love the show and thanks for taking my call today.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got a professional setup there, what you do?

[Caller/Guest]

I'm in sales, so it's kind of work from home type gig. I'm kind of in the field and out on the road a lot, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nice.

[Caller/Guest]

But yeah, well, thank You. So yeah, just to kind of get into it, I could just go through my email real quick. You know, basically I've been lifting off and on since high school. I'm 43 years old now. You know, pretty usual throughout my life kind of yo yo'd up and down in weight a little bit. But over the past year I really buckled down and solidified more fitness as a habit and it's really helped. I started doing Maps Anabolic Advanced.

[Sal DeStefano]

I did that.

[Caller/Guest]

I just finished that actually about a week and a half ago. And I was kind of looking where to go next. So I reached out to one of your, your reps and they had recommended maps 15 advanced. I was a little bit curious about that. Just going from the amount of volume and Maps anabolic going to maps 15 and if that's going to be something that's going to. I don't know if I can modify it or. Because my, my goal right now is to get up to £190 and I'm at 183 right now. So I don't know, should I modify it or should I just stick with the plan and go with it as is or is there a different program that you would recommend?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, let's get to the bottom of why they probably went that way to you.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's tell me a little bit about lifestyle. Like what your work. I mean, sounds like you do work at home at, on sitting at a desk. So what else you got going on, kids? What do you got? Anything else? What do you got?

[Caller/Guest]

Oh yeah, oh yeah, I got, got kids. I actually coached their TenU softball team and we just started basketball. So I'm coaching basketball this year too. So our, our softball season just ended yesterday. So a little bit more time on my hand in the evenings, but. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

How's your sleep?

[Caller/Guest]

But sleep's good. Typically around seven, seven and a half hours a night.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome. And then you did, now did you did Maps Anabolic Advanced. Okay, so that's the one where you train a failure on one week, the next week higher volume. Right.

[Caller/Guest]

So. Well, so this is the one starts out with the strength phase where it's really low reps, high, high, high weight. Then it goes kind of intermediate, raises up direct.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the traditional map synabolic. So you did the three day a week version of it, is what you're saying?

[Sal DeStefano]

Three day a week?

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Got it, got it.

[Caller/Guest]

And then the last phase was like 30 seconds of rest.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

In between sets. Yeah, that was kind of a grind.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So. And how did you progress through that?

[Sal DeStefano]

Great.

[Caller/Guest]

The first two phases, I was progressing awesome. You know, I was reverse dieting at the same time. I'm up to about 4,300 calories. 4,400 calories right now a day, and I'm maintaining 183 pounds. But throughout those first two phases, I was really gaining a lot of strength, a lot of muscle, and things are going great. Like I said, that third phase was kind of a grind, but got through it. And of course, I had to lighten the weight up a little bit, of course, to make sure that I can get through all you guys. The higher rep count too.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course. Of course. So here's what I think you should do, and here's what I think is going to happen. I think if you follow Maps 15, the, the free weight version, which we would say the advanced version, I think what's going to happen at 4300 calories moving out of phase 3 from maps anabolic 3 days a week is you're going to see your strength go up quite a bit. If you see your strength go up by the second week, you're on the right program. If you don't get stronger, then we can add some volume. But I don't think that's going to happen. I think you're going to go into it and you're just going to get stronger and stronger and you're probably going to gain weight, especially at 4, 300 calories. Sounds like you have a faster metabolism.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So guys with the faster metabolism tend to do better with a lower volume type of program.

[Sal DeStefano]

It seems counterintuitive, but it's probably why they led you that direction is if you're eating 4, 300 calories and you're not really gaining weight, they're. They're probably trying to reduce your volume and see if you can just actually build from, from a, a lesser volume program. And, and I think it's a great idea. I think it's a great strategy. I think you're gonna see strength gains right away. It'll feel like you're not doing a lot, but you'd be blown away how little you have to do to stay on. I mean, I don't know if you've heard us. I remember when we first created that program and I think I was the first one to go through it. I remember telling the guys like, this is wild. This feels like so little amount of volume for me, but I'm building, I'm gaining. It's. It's surprising.

[Justin Andrews]

What's your natural body type? Would you say tall and lean or not lean, but let's say skinnier. Okay.

[Caller/Guest]

Tall and lean. Like I'm six one, you know, 183 pound. Now, of course, this time last year I was about £230. So I grinded my way down to where I am right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Caller/Guest]

You know, so I'm just trying to build back up, but do it in the right way. I want to maintain my 10 to 12 body fat that I've gotten to, but I still want to get up to about that 190 pound mark.

[Sal DeStefano]

Man, you've done a killer job. If you came from 230, you're eating 4, 300 calories, you're down to 10. I mean, you've done a hell of a job. Yeah, yeah, you did a good job.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think, I think what'll I'll predict that it. With, with Maps 15 barbell version, you're going to see some really consistent strength gains. And then from there you can go back to maps anabolic, or you could try symmetry or even maps 15 performance would be another program. But if you see the strength gains coming, you're going in the right direction. That's, that's the best signal. That's like, okay, I'm going in the right direction and I'm going to start building muscle. And I wouldn't, I would, I wouldn't be surprised if you gained three to four pounds of lean body mass by the end of that program. Wow.

[Caller/Guest]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

And keeping the calories the same too.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the nice part about where going to Mass 15 is. You, you probably don't need to increase like that. Now if, if I saw you after two weeks and you feel good, you feel strong, but you're not gaining any weight, I would bump your calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if you, if we like hit week two and you're like, okay, I feel good, I'm feeling stronger, but the scale's kind of still hovering around 183, then we have room to still try and bump if you can. But I know eating 4, 300 calories is a lot. That's, that's but good problem to have those, you know.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, it is a lot. And I was kind of curious about that. And that was kind of the second part of my question, which you guys kind of answered already. Like, is there a limit to how far you can reverse diet like that?

[Sal DeStefano]

No. I mean, I mean, there is wishing returns when you start having adverse effects from it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You start you start, you know, your stool is off or you just, you feel bloated all the time. Like you don't feel good. Yeah. Interrupts your sleep. But if you feel good. Yeah, there's no limit. I mean, if you. As long as you keep feeling good and better on your way up.

[Justin Andrews]

I generally have never seen anybody, a guy, unless they were like a competitive bodybuilder, you know, get up to north of 5,000 calories and stay lean, generally speaking. I know there's individual variants out there, but you're reaching that, that, that, that top, you know, kind of tier. So I bet, like I said, I think if you keep it there, you're going to see some nice lean body mass gains.

[Caller/Guest]

Awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Great. Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Well, I really appreciate it, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I'd love to hear back from you, too. You're. You're on such a cool path right.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, you know, let's have you back on. How's that sound? Let's have you back on in a few months. I want to see how you did with the. With 15.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, brother.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. Yep. Take it easy, man.

[Caller/Guest]

Thank you. Y', all, too. Bye.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, when you got.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so 230 down to 183 and 10. That's awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

If his calories were low. Yeah. 4343. Yeah. So 43 at 10 to 12% body fat. 6. 183 pounds, I think he said.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome place.

[Justin Andrews]

Lower volume is the name of the game.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

With someone like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So I don't know who he talked to on our team, but that's. That's good advice. Yeah, it's good advice.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, here we've talked ad nauseam already about how little volume it takes to even maintain. So he's not going to lose. That's for damn sure. Like, what he won't do is go backwards, which is always the fear when you're that guy. Right. You've been doing all this volume, been trained this much. You got to this point, you're like, wait a second, they're telling me to do less work.

[Doug]

So easy to add to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

The other thing, too is he said, and this, this feels like this in phase three of Anabolic, this feels like, for me, Maps, Anabolic being a kind of foundational program. But phase three, he's like, I grinded my way through that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's going to be a nice break on his body and allow his body to, you know, pack on some muscle. It's funny, too. I was literally reading an Article today with Kevin Levroni. Remember him from the 90s? And he said he never could really get away with really high reps because his metabolism is so fast he couldn't build the muscle that he needed as a pro bodybuilder. Of course we're talking about a pro bodybuilder here because he was such a fast metabolism.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our next caller is Andrew from Canada. What's up, Andrew? I recognize you, man. How you doing?

[Caller/Guest]

Make sure I can talk here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Holy shit.

[Justin Andrews]

How can we help you, man?

[Caller/Guest]

I'll do like everyone else and read my email because I don't know what else I'm supposed to do, so. Hi, mind pump crew. I need help solving my problem. I am turning 36 this year. 57 Hover around 200 currently. I've historically worked out improperly. Since high school, never longer than three to six months at a time. I have consistently played a sport, whether it be soccer, basketball, ice hockey, racket sports, also skateboarded, biked, rollerbladed, bmx, skate park kind of stuff, which obviously beat the hell out of my legs. February 1st of 2024, I blew my Achilles playing basketball. This was a huge blow to my life on many levels. Mental battle being the hardest one to come back from still bugs me every day. Fast forward to today. I've been working out consistently since about May of 2024. That's when I was cleared by my physiotherapist to start resistance training in order to get myself back to normal or some sort of normal. Basically we set a goal that I wanted to be able to return to playing basketball as soon as possible. So this led me to training my legs three days a week for about five to six months. From listening to you guys, I know I definitely was over training. I would incorporate upper body stuff eventually here and there, but my main goal was getting my legs as strong as possible so that I could get back to playing basketball. I eventually added agility and mobility training in order to get back in game shape. Just basically to get back at some point. My physiotherapist, who's also a friend, found a protocol for Achilles ruptures from an NCAA school. 24. I passed that with flying colors. So By November of 2024, we set a protocol in place for me to return to basketball and with a minute's progression per quarter type thing so that I didn't go overboard because I have a tendency of doing that. I played my first full game in January 2025 and haven't slowed down since. Sorry guys, I'M sweating like a pig right now. Let's figure out where I was here. Followed a couple different workouts using past knowledge and also an app called Coachify AI. Results varied. Listening to you guys, I was sold on Maps Anabolic so there was a bundle with that and the six pack abs. So I bought that. Eventually did Maps Anabolic. Recently finished Phase three and perplexed at my results. I also purchased Maps prime around that time and use that every day. I spent about eight weeks prior to starting the Anabolic program in the pre phase in order to really dial in on some techniques and to get comfortable with a bunch of the lifts. So going through the phases, phase one I got stronger and basically every lift I started squatting around 135. By the end of phase one I was hitting 225 comfortably. Bench went from 95 to 170 and deadlift went up similarly to the squat, maybe a bit more, a bit less. Other lifts went up. I never really I don't remember what happened with those exactly. Then I went through phase two and three and often questioned whether I was selecting the right weights and using the right intensity. Found myself eventually becoming extremely fatigued most days and have random unexpected aches and pains in either muscles, joints or both. Adding to that predominantly my hands. Throughout this process, I visited with my family doctor, got blood work done on two separate occasions, February and June of 2025, and I do have those results if you guys want to know. Specifically, testosterone is where my brain keeps going. Based on your podcast, my weight changed from 190 to 200 pounds in that process, but I don't feel leaner. I know I gained strength because my lifts went up, but I feel like I regressed rapidly after making gains early on. I followed the Anabolic program two days a week because that's what my life fits and eventually couldn't even muster up enough energy to go more than once a week near the end. Some days even stretching and mobility work feels like it's too much. Going back to my doctor, she thinks that I'm doing everything correctly and I just need to proceed as I've been doing. Whereas listening to your podcast every day makes me wonder what I'm missing. Am I being impatient? Where did I go wrong?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, good blood work came back okay.

[Caller/Guest]

By the way, so I'll pull that up real quick. The only one that I wrote down to mention is the testosterone, so the range they tested was 8.4 to 29 nanomoles per liter. February it was at 9.4 really low and then June, I went up to 12.7.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so it's going up. Okay, so it was just too much. That's classic signs of. So when you Maps Anabolic, Phase 1 is the lowest volume of all of the phases. Even though it's heavy, the reps are low and you don't hit the same areas each time you work out. In other words, like one day might be bench, the next time would be overhead press. When you get to phase two, you start doing full body each time. Phase three, the volume really ramps up. So I would. Maps 15 would probably be the program that would have you continuously progress.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was thinking maps 15 performance just because it's basketball.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, mass 15 performance would be great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That would probably be the ideal amount of volume with your lifestyle and how your body's responding. That's why you saw good progress in phase one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, bro, you're doing pretty good overall. I mean, this is also part of, you know, the part. The process too. I mean, you've made a lot of really good strides in the right direction. I mean, to recover from a Achilles alone is. I know what that's like. That's a pain in the ass. And then to get where you're at weight wise, to see strength go up in all of your lifts, you had a little, a little bit of a setback. But I think to Sal's point, just. Just classic over. Just a little bit too much volume for where you're currently at, especially if you're coupling that with men's basketball. Like, what's a typical week for you? Playing ball?

[Caller/Guest]

When I'm not on the road working like I am right now, I usually work out Tuesday mornings and then men's basketball is Thursday night.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, and then what is it? What do you mean on the, on the, on the. When you're traveling for work, what does that look like and how often?

[Caller/Guest]

So it's typically one week per month. I'm out on the road, staying in a hotel, eating at restaurants. When I'm on the road, I typically do find a gym to play basketball once and work out once if I'm able to, to stay consistent with my routine. That is of, of course, during figure skating season for my daughter. When figure skating season is done, then I can get to the gym twice a week and still play basketball.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, and you. And how does sleep normally for you?

[Caller/Guest]

I'm a father of five, ranging from 17 years old down to 14 months. So sleep is broken.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, well, there's the answer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mass 15, that's another full Time job, dog.

[Justin Andrews]

That's more than a full time job job. Five kids. God bless you by the way. Young man with five kids. What a blessing. That's amazing. I, I, yeah. Mass 15 performance and Mass 15 are the programs you need to live in. Yeah, that's your workout, bro. Especially with broken sleep. All those kids, you work a full time job, one week you're gone adding just a bunch of strength training. It's just not, your body's not going to respond well to it. That's why phase one works so well for you by the way. In phase one to go from 135 to 225. And what was that? Your squat.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a dramatic increase in volume by itself, even though the sets were the same, you went up 90 pounds in a single lift. Your bench press went from 95 to 170. That's almost double. You almost doubled your strength.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So if you go Mass 15 performance and Mass 15 and you just go back and forth between those two, you're probably going to see nice consistent progress. And I don't think you need to add anything else.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no.

[Justin Andrews]

Until your life changes dramatically, which you got a 15 month old kid, it's not going to be like that for another four years.

[Sal DeStefano]

And don't make the mistake when you start feeling better to try and do more.

[Justin Andrews]

Because typically when I feel good is a good sign.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, stay in that, stay in that, that place and, and hover around that. I think that's where you need to be. But a mistake guys make is also. And they start feeling good. They're like oh yeah. And they start ramping it up and start doing more. It's like, no, just, I'm glad I asked too.

[Justin Andrews]

You said, you know, when. Soon. As soon as you told me I had five kids and all that stuff. Like. Oh yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

That confirms it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that confirms it.

[Caller/Guest]

So with Maps 15, how do I make that work if I'm going one day a week?

[Justin Andrews]

You only you. Okay. So you're only able to go to the gym one day a week.

[Caller/Guest]

I, I could go more but I don't want to sacrifice family time, so I choose not to.

[Justin Andrews]

Gotcha. Great. Any, any, Would you. Because what it looks like is about a 15 to 20 minute workout with a barbell. Do you have access? Do you have any equipment at home?

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean he could choose to do one day of mass performance. Just pick, pick, pick to work at one one and that's all.

[Justin Andrews]

That's another way to do it. Yeah, that'd be another way to do it. Or use the suspension trainer in mass 15, the original. And then you'd use a suspension trainer on the days you're not in the gym. And then one day you go to the gym and use a barbell would be the other way to do it.

[Caller/Guest]

I have no equipment at home right now. I'm working my way back to getting some. I sold it all to my brother a few years ago.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I mean that's not a bad. Okay. If you. If, if I'm trying to be home around my family, kids is that's primary, like the focus here. So that's the reason why I'm only going to the gym one or two days a week. Then Sal's idea of, you know, eighty dollar map suspension, like suspension is. Is super cheap. You buy one time you're set and you can literally do the whole program from home.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you're right there and you do it. Do 15. It's 15 minute increments. So you literally sneak away for 15 minutes, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

And the one day you go to the gym, you could do. Do the barbell version. And that's the original mass 15 is what I would do then.

[Caller/Guest]

All right, guys, I lost you for about 15 seconds.

[Justin Andrews]

No problem. What you would do is you would use the suspension trainers on the day you're home. And the one day you go to the gym you would do the barbell workout. But each time is about 15 to 20 minutes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or literally never go to the gym except for to play ball.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. You could also do every workout with a suspension trainer.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah. Okay. Especially, I mean, I do like going to the gym. Sorry to interrupt you because I like the, we'll say the camaraderie of seeing the same people all the time and just using equipment.

[Justin Andrews]

Would you prefer to do an hour workout once a week instead?

[Caller/Guest]

That's what I do right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. So you would like to keep it that way.

[Caller/Guest]

It's working.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's do this then. Let's give you Maps Performance instead. We're going to switch it out and you're going to pick. You got me there.

[Caller/Guest]

I'm not sure what you said after I said it's working.

[Justin Andrews]

No worries. Give you Maps Performance. Okay. Stay out of the last phase. You're gonna go to just the first few phases. Don't do the last phase. And do one foundational workout once a week. The next week, do the next foundational workout. The next week, do the next foundational workout. And that's what you're gonna do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller/Guest]

And when life kind of goes outside of figure skating season, then I can kind of follow the program.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're gonna be a while, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

It's gonna be a while. I think that'll be ideal for you for a long time, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I mean, I tell you what. Reach back out to us, and, you know, in a year of doing that, like, you. You should stay there for quite some time. And if you find. Honestly, if you find a little more time, then do the mobility days at home. So, like, stick to one day of the foundational lifting at the gym, since that's what's working really well for you and those. That's a good program for playing sports and everything you got going on. And then if you feel ambitious, you have a good. You have. You could literally do a lot of the mobility work right there at your house. So you could just. So the mobility stuff, you can add that throughout the week, and that'll help you. Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Caller/Guest]

That's amazing.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll send that to you, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, we'll send that over to you.

[Caller/Guest]

I appreciate that greatly, and I appreciate your time, of course.

[Sal DeStefano]

Andrew, are you already. I can't. I know you and I have talked before online. Are we talking in Facebook or on Instagram? Where do I normally talk to you at?

[Caller/Guest]

I sent a question in a while ago on Instagram.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so we'll put you in the private forum, too. So we got. We have access to you, and you can just reach out to us.

[Justin Andrews]

I think we lost.

[Caller/Guest]

Did put on the show. That's the extent, though.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, we're gonna put you in the forum, too, brother.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I'm back.

[Caller/Guest]

I can hear you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we'll put you in the form.

[Caller/Guest]

Amazing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you got it, man. All right, thanks for calling in.

[Caller/Guest]

Thank you. I really appreciate the perspective you guys give on being a father.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, that's. God bless you, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Five kids, 36 years old. You're doing good things.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're the man.

[Caller/Guest]

Appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, Andrew.

[Justin Andrews]

Take it easy.

[Caller/Guest]

Take care, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

That's great.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

As soon as he said, I have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Five kids on top of, like, he's living labor.

[Justin Andrews]

Top of his job. Yeah. I mean, 36 with five kids, you know, that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So his kids are, like, all the way up. That's a lot, dude. Parents need to understand. Well, I think parents get it, but I think what happens when you're a parent is you do all this stuff with all your kids, and then you look at a Workout. And you judge it based off of what somebody without kids and not that responsibility should be able to do. So you're like two days a week. That's not too much. It is when you live your life for your family.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Which is the right. That's what you do when you have. When you have a family is you live your life for your family. And it takes a lot. Takes a lot of energy. It's a lot of stress. And you just. You can't keep throwing stress at yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, personally, what I heard from him, I would. I like your suspension trainer idea. I do suspension at home all day, and then if for the camaraderie, I go play basketball once a week.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, that's my stick there. Yeah, yeah. That's my meeting up with the guys and getting my little break from the home. But then the rest of the time, I'm going to do map suspension at home. I think that's good, too.

[Caller/Guest]

Our next caller is Myra from Montana.

[Justin Andrews]

Myra, welcome back.

[Sal DeStefano]

How you doing, Myra?

[Doug]

What's happening?

[Caller/Guest]

Hi.

Thanks, gentlemen. Thanks for having me back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. How you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

Give us an update. What's going on?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, so I called in with my traumatized butt and took care of the busies. I upped my calories a little bit, and I ran Muscle Mommy, which was super fun, not gonna lie. I guess my question is, while I was able to see improvement in my strength, I don't felt like I built muscle the same way. So it didn't look like I gained anything, even though my strength was progressing. So my question is, is that just how the program was written? Because I know generally women don't want to look bulky, or is it more of a reaction of all of the other activity that I'm doing right now?

[Justin Andrews]

So. So how much strength did you gain? Let's start there. Give it. Give me an idea. Like, with a lift that you started at and then where you ended up.

[Caller/Guest]

My squat went up about 10 pounds, deadlift went up 15, and bench went up 10.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. So we saw some good strength gains, and the strongest correlate. In other words, the strongest evidence or predictor of muscle growth is strength. There is no stronger predictor. So if you're getting stronger consistently, then you are going to build muscle, and it's likely you did build some muscle. Now, the strength gains weren't so large that I'm like, oh, yeah, you probably gained pounds of muscle, but you're moving in the right direction in the program. All of our programs, although there are avatars, we Design them for. They're all strength training. So they're all designed to build muscle in one way, shape or another, including muscle mommy. Now, what about your nutrition? Did you increase your calories through that period of time?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, so I went up about 100 right at the start and then I just stayed there for the whole program.

[Justin Andrews]

You got to increase your calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

Keep going.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sounds like you were doing all the right things. We, ideally we probably would have increased calories, about 100 calories every week or every other week throughout the program.

[Justin Andrews]

I would have liked. Yeah, it would have been nice to have seen you 500 calories higher by the end of the program, at least.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I just bumped it up in the beginning and kept it there.

[Justin Andrews]

Where did you stay at?

[Caller/Guest]

What calories in between? 2000, 20, 100.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. Gets you up to 23, 24, 2500 calories and we'll see some muscle gain.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep, yep.

[Justin Andrews]

So what this tells me, Myra, is that the programming was perfect. The limiting factor was the calories. Calories. In fact, I would have, I, I bet.

[Sal DeStefano]

Love to see you run it again with the calories.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. I bet you strength gains would have probably been either at least two to three times higher than what you saw with. With more food.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

And then I'm like every other person and concerned about the fat gain with that big of a jump. Is there. It's a way to just increase slowly versus 100 a week, or is that just. Just rip off the band aid and go.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can, Myra, but let's put. I want to put this in perspective for you. If you increase by a hundred calories. Right. Another 100 calories and let's pretend it did all go to body fat, it would literally take you at that rate. It would take you almost, what, three weeks before you could even put on a half a pound to a pound of body fat, imagining that it did. But if you're lifting a good program.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're getting stronger and you're getting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stronger, it's going to get partitioned to building muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

I wouldn't be surprised if you even got a little leaner with such a reverse.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

In fact, I would bump you right out.

[Sal DeStefano]

2, 300 calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Right out the gates. 2 to 300 calories.

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Okay. Yeah, you can.

[Caller/Guest]

My concern with that is when I started the reverse diet about a year ago, I was going really slow, and after about six months, I had already put on £7.

[Justin Andrews]

That's. Well, you look lean.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So do you know what your body fat percentage is at?

[Caller/Guest]

I don't. I had it tested probably two years ago and it was at 14, but that was way before I was lifting a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

I wouldn't be surprised just by looking at your arms and shoulders that you're probably 20, maybe even lower. And right around 20, 21, 22% is a good body fat percentage to build muscle. It's also lean. So I would not be. If you were my client and I was able to coach you throughout this whole process, I would jump you up faster, but I'll let you keep it conservative so you can stay comfortable. But if you were my client, I'd have you go 400 calories. Right. Right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I'd love to see you in our muscle mommy group. Just because that's one of the most common things that people are going through in that fear.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is is trying to reverse diet. So I'd say 80% of the women in that group are in a similar situation as you. Is trying to reverse diet and build muscle. And so if you're open to going, there's a seven day free trial. You can go in there, just check it out. I mean, you're also coach too. Every week.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm also reading your question right now. And you're also a group fitness instructor. So three days a week, you're leading a class. Correct. Your calories are really low.

[Sal DeStefano]

We gotta eat a lot more.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I think you should go up 300 calories. If you're doing the three classes a week, plus Muscle Mommy. Plus, you're already lean, you saw some strength gains. That tells me the programming is working. The extra calories are gonna go to muscle. They're gonna go all to muscle. You'll see some great gains.

[Caller/Guest]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's the other question I have for you. Are you feeling the glutes any more than you were before?

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's awesome. Yes.

[Caller/Guest]

I know, right? Score. I think it was mostly just like really pushing the weight on the Thruster. I'm up to like £300 now, and that'll do it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, come on now. Where did you start with the Thruster? What was your weight at when you feed it now? Yeah. What was the weight you were using before?

[Caller/Guest]

Probably 210.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. 90 pound increase. That's phenomenal.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing good. We. We feed more food. We feed you a couple hundred more calories at least, and you're gonna see that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But. But, you know, if that. The psychological part, I know how difficult that can Be. That's the reason why I'm recommending the. The group is just so you have other women that are doing it too. We can all talk and share. You got the coaching checking in with you every week.

[Justin Andrews]

Week.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just for that reason. Not because I think you're doing anything wrong, but just because I know the psychological part is challenging. When you're asking someone to increase calories like that, and just having the community and the trainers supporting you through that process, I think you're going to crush.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

I looked into the. The group and I didn't match any of the avatars. I'm like the over trainer.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that was, that was just. Literally, that was a marketing tool for us to get people in and try it out.

[Caller/Guest]

Out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Don't even think. Don't even.

[Justin Andrews]

It's group coaching for women who want to build muscle.

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're. You're gonna love it. Get in. Just get in the group. Just go straight to muscle mommymove it.com and then just go straight in and do the trial. And then we'll see you in there, say hi and, and start coming in there and talking with people and you'll see that's gonna, you're gonna get a lot and, and show up to the calls if you can. If you can't show up, then watch the recordings when we have them so that you can continue to hear the advice and go through it. But I, I think you're gonna crush it.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, Myra, the other thing too, if I recall. Do you. You overall feel disconnection in the lower body, pelvic area in general?

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. And I had recommended acupuncture, and I see your question up there that you don't want, you don't want to lay on a table with your butt out. That's not how acupuncture works. Yeah, that's not how that works. So what you would say to the acupuncturist is, you know, from here to here, I just feel less connection and I'm not sure why. And they might ask you some questions. It might be related to past issues, trauma, whatever. And then the, the way that the acupuncture works is not necessarily the needles go where you need it, where you think you need them.

[Caller/Guest]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of times it'll be like in your shoulder. It's like the weirdest thing ever. It's a trip. It's a trip to do it when you're like, wait a second, it's over here and I'm feeling Like, just trust me, watch. And they do it.

[Justin Andrews]

And if you feel an emotional release or it, then you know you're moving in the right direction.

[Caller/Guest]

Okay, cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

And that doesn't sound so intimidating.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no. I've never had my butt out. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Meyer, get in the group. Get in the group. You're gonna.

[Justin Andrews]

The group is number one.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's gonna be perfect for where you're at right now. You did a great job already in the program. The program is right for you. We just need to bump the calories. And I know how challenge you're gonna. And I'm telling you right now, you're gonna have moments during that time where you're like, oh, God, this is too much. This doesn't feel right. And just having the trainer kind of talk you off that ledge saying, no, you're kicking ass. You're doing great.

[Justin Andrews]

I wouldn't be surprised if you got your calories up to 27, 2800 calories at a point.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're just going to be strong.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And have muscle and lots of glutes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome.

[Caller/Guest]

So you would recommend just running Muscle Mommy again, I'm thinking of symmetry.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, Run Muscle Mommy.

[Justin Andrews]

You could do symmetry. But I like muscle for you.

[Sal DeStefano]

The fact that it worked that good with that low calories, I want to see what it looks like with 300 more calories.

[Doug]

Keep it going.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Yes.

[Caller/Guest]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, Myra.

[Caller/Guest]

Well, thank you so much for your help, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it. Good to see you again.

[Sal DeStefano]

We'll be checking up on you.

[Caller/Guest]

Okay, sounds great.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, bye. Bye. Bye. Yeah, when I, when I looked at her question, so, you know, for the, for the listeners, we also, they'll also write a question, and sometimes we don't get all the information when we're talking to them. And as I'm looking up, I'm like, oh, you're doing. You're leading three group exercise classes a week. Week.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

It's a lot extra activity and you're.

[Justin Andrews]

Only eating 20 something hundred calories. What'd she say, 21. And I'm looking at her and you can, you can tell from her upper body, she's probably still in the teens with body fat percentage. So a calorie bump was it. And the fact that she got stronger was just the programming. The programming is what did it. She just didn't feed herself enough.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Once she increases her calories, she can.

[Doug]

Connect and everything where she just.

[Justin Andrews]

For people listening. For people listening right now, if I was working with her and I knew I could be there with her to coach her. I would have her bump 400.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'd be like, watch what happens. And then I'd have to talk her off the ledge, you know, 15 different.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Because she's gonna feel fuller than she.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then she's gonna hold a little bit more water and then think that's body fat. And so that's why I want her in the program is just, just for that. Just because she's gonna have that moment. And I know, I know Alyssa, Karen will be like, honey, you're doing perfect. And just watch what happens. And then once she gets over that and then she. And starts to see what she's wanting, it'll change.

[Justin Andrews]

Like you said, a lot of glutes. There it is. Look. If you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.