Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Episode 2747 - "The New Rules for Modern Manhood" w/ Larry Hagner
Release Date: December 11, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Guest: Larry Hagner (The Dad Edge Podcast, "The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood" author)
Episode Overview
This engaging episode of Mind Pump dives deep into the evolving concepts of masculinity, marriage, and fatherhood in today's world. The hosts welcome Larry Hagner, founder of The Dad Edge and author of "The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood," for a candid, tactical conversation about the struggles men face in modern relationships, parenting, and personal development. The discussion balances personal stories, practical frameworks, and hard-won insight on becoming a better man, husband, and father.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The "Drift" – Modern Male Stagnation
[04:03-08:52]
- Larry introduces the "Drift," a state where men drift into unfulfilling routines after big life transitions (marriage, fatherhood, career).
- Men feel isolated, lack purpose, feel unappreciated at work and at home, and let marriage, health, and friendships stagnate. Larry's fictional avatar "Lance" personifies this.
- Quote:
"Lance buys into that, but he knows that he's leaving so much on the table, but he just doesn't know how to access it..." (Larry, 06:55)
2. Loneliness and Lacking Male Role Models
[07:02-09:55]
- Over 70% of men experience loneliness and lack deep, meaningful friendships.
- Many never learned relational, emotional, or parenting skills from their fathers—focusing mainly on being “providers.”
- Modern dads are more involved, but often without a blueprint for true connection.
3. Marriage, Midlife, and the Fork in the Road
[09:55-11:26]
- Men in "midlife crises" often face a fork: they either implode (divorce, affairs) or make the hard changes to reconnect and lead.
- Quote:
"Marriage is actually the exact same thing [as fitness]; there are skills that are associated with connecting to your wife, building intimacy, building attraction... And just most men [...] look at that as like, well, if I need to learn that, does that mean I'm less than?" (Larry, 10:34)
- The roadblock for most is admitting these skills must be learned, not innately known.
4. The Communication Gap and Core Relationship Needs
[12:12-15:15]
- Most men’s biggest marriage problem: communication.
- Women’s 3 core needs: Feel seen, heard, and safe.
- Men’s 3 core needs: Respect, appreciation, physical affection.
- Disconnect happens when unmet needs breed resentment on both sides.
- Real-life story: Adam describes a blow-up with his wife Katrina rooted in clashing unmet needs (respect vs. safety).
"It's wild how when both of those [core needs] could be off, what it could cause." (Adam, 16:13)
5. Leadership & Initiation in Relationships
[19:24-24:28]
- Men are often caught in an impasse—waiting for their partner to "go first" in fixing things.
- Larry advocates for men to initiate change and show consistent leadership, but warns it must be genuine and sustained, not a temporary fix.
- The "Nice Guy" Trap: Acting with covert expectations (like doing chores for intimacy), which leads to resentment.
"A woman is not attracted to that. A woman wants a kind man...but she also wants a man to lead." (Larry, 22:44)
6. Tactical Skills and Frameworks for Men
[26:54-33:24]
- Larry shares Keith Yackey's "5 Ps of Attraction":
- Partner – Be a teammate.
- Parent – Be a patient and playful dad.
- Producer – Financial stability with a “buffer.”
- Power – Confidence, not domination.
- (The fifth “P” is not enumerated in the episode.)
- Communication tool:
- For negative emotions: Globalize issue ("That sounds frustrating"), invite more ("Tell me more").
- For positive emotions: Localize to her ("You must feel amazing").
- Practice these responses to foster emotional safety and connection.
"When you emotionally validate a woman... you become the most interesting and attractive guy in the room." (Larry, 31:53)
7. The Power of Male Friendship and Community
[34:31-40:29]
- Male peer groups are a "force multiplier": Surrounding yourself with men you respect, who hold you accountable and speak wisdom, massively affects your trajectory.
- Old friendships often bond around shared trauma; growth sometimes requires new circles focused on positive models and accountability.
"Your group is your force multiplier... If you have a group of friends like Lance does... That can be crippling, man. It could keep a man in the same spot for decades if he doesn't figure that out." (Larry, 34:29; Adam, 40:29)
8. New Dads: Priorities and Clear Roles
[41:05-45:34]
- Marriage must come first, even after kids arrive; don’t let your partnership be demoted.
- Divide household and parenting responsibilities clearly to prevent silent resentment.
"The biggest mistake that a new dad will make and a new mom is they will slide that marriage on the back burner..." (Larry, 41:07)
9. Modern Challenges: Phones, Porn, Video Games
[46:45-52:45]
- Technology and vices are major distractions and outlets for stress—if not checked, they erode connection and leadership.
- Personal anecdote: Larry's client accidentally broadcasts porn to his kids via Bluetooth—a cautionary tale about the real costs of unchecked vices.
"I found myself way more productive in the workplace. I found myself way more intentional with my kids, into intimacy with my wife... [Sex] gets better without porn. And I'm like, I don't know if that's true. It is insanely true." (Larry, 47:56)
- Gaming and phones can be healthy outlets, but only in moderation and with honest self-assessment.
10. Traits of Men Who Succeed at Change
[52:45-54:39]
- Successful men are:
- Coachable (open to feedback)
- Consistent executors
- Patient (with themselves and process)
- Most men wait until crisis hits; earlier action dramatically improves outcomes.
11. Taking Wives’ Concerns Seriously & Curiosity Over Defensiveness
[54:39-56:41]
- Husbands should respond to feedback from wives with curiosity ("Tell me how that’s impacting you") instead of defensiveness—truly listen and seek to understand.
12. Hard Truths: Sometimes Divorce Is the Right Outcome
[56:41-58:54]
- Larry has told clients, after failed attempts, that not every marriage should be saved—sometimes personal growth means recognizing an incompatible or toxic partnership.
13. Hope & Data: What Works for Long-term Marriage
[58:54-61:27]
- 94% of divorces are "no fault"—many result from drift, not acute crises.
- Consistent positive practices (like regular prayer) dramatically lower divorce rates to as little as 1%.
- The happiest marriages involve couples who proactively learn and practice relational skills.
14. Premarital Preparation & Ongoing Learning
[62:09-64:50]
- Larry advocates premarital coaching and learning relational skills before crises arise.
- Proactively seeking coaching and models from experienced, successful couples pays dividends.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "You look out on the bleachers of sporting events, you see more dads there. You see more dads on field trips, you see more dads playing with their kids at parks. Like, dads...are hungry and they are eager to do something different." (Larry, 09:38)
- "If you ask a guy, do you know your wife's three needs in the relationship? ...If you don't know what the needs are, if you don't know what the target is, how are you supposed to hit it?" (Larry, 12:32)
- "A woman is not attracted to that. A woman wants a kind man...but she also wants a man to lead." (Larry, 22:44)
- "Your group is your force multiplier. So if you have, if you have a group of friends like Lance does, right, who's speaking negativity...that can be crippling, man. It could keep a man in a, the same spot for decades if he doesn't figure that out." (Larry, 34:29; Adam, 40:29)
- "You might be a new dad, but date nights are still a big deal, man. Make sure that you are still connecting with your wife every single day..." (Larry, 41:09)
- "The best lessons are caught, not taught." (Larry, 47:14)
- "[About intervention in marriage problems] Usually if I can tell a guy, if you can take action sooner rather than later...do not wait until your wife doesn't want to be with you anymore." (Larry, 54:36)
- "Going back to what you just said, though, 1% of couples that pray together will stay together...Both couples or one person will learn the skills of marriage. They learn communication, they learn intimacy..." (Larry, 60:02, 61:27)
Key Timestamps
| Segment | Description | |---------|--------------| | 04:03 | Introduction to the "Drift" and Larry's avatar Lance | | 07:02 | Reader/listener emails validate the 'drift' scenario | | 09:55 | Midlife crisis, forks in the road for men | | 12:12 | Main roadblock: Communication & core needs explained | | 19:24 | Leadership, Nice Guy syndrome, expectation/reward traps | | 26:54 | 5 Ps of Attraction and tactical marital advice | | 31:53 | Communication techniques for validating partner's emotions | | 34:29 | Power of positive male friendships and mastermind groups | | 41:05 | Advising new dads: Keep marriage first, clear roles | | 46:45 | Modern distractions: phone, porn, and gaming | | 52:45 | Traits of men who succeed at change | | 54:39 | Engaging vs. dismissing your wife's concerns | | 56:41 | When divorce is the right call | | 58:54 | Practices that keep marriages strong—hopeful conclusion | | 62:09 | The value of premarital preparation and learning from mentors |
Resources & Where to Find More
- Larry Hagner:
- Podcast: The Dad Edge
- Book: “The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood” (preorder at thedadedge.com/legendarybook)
- Mastermind/Coaching: thedadedge.com/mastermind
- Free bonus courses available with book preorder
Final Thoughts
This episode delivers raw, actionable truth about modern manhood, marriage, and fatherhood. Larry Hagner and the Mind Pump team shed the "stoic provider" stereotype, advocating instead for skill-building in emotional connection, leadership, and community. Listeners are left with hope, hard truths, and a toolkit for stepping up as legendary men.
[Summary by Mind Pump Summaries | December 2025]