2762: Roxanne Saffaie Gets Us Emotional Reminiscing The Past 10 Years

Summary

Mind Pump 2762: Roxanne Saffaie Gets Us Emotional Reminiscing The Past 10 Years

Podcast: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Guest: Roxanne Saffaie (The Roxanne Show)
Date: January 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this special, reflective episode, longtime friend and fellow podcaster Roxanne Saffaie turns the tables and interviews the Mind Pump crew—Sal, Adam, Justin, and Doug—on a milestone occasion: 10 years of Mind Pump. The conversation runs deep, covering business lessons, authenticity, brotherhood, the difference between teammates and friends, personal transformation, and what it means to be successful both outwardly and internally. Expect vulnerability, laughter, debate, and even a few tears as the team looks back (and forward) on their journey.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Power of Authenticity and Integrity

• Authenticity as a North Star

  • Roxanne opens up about the vision she held for years to sit with the Mind Pump team, highlighting their authenticity as what drew her in as a listener and podcaster.
    • "Authenticity was number one. It's felt...because that is just how I function, how I've always functioned." (Roxanne, 08:02)
  • The Mind Pump hosts reaffirm that with temptations to play social media games or follow algorithms, authenticity is more rewarding, even if it's a harder and slower road.
    • "We could feel it. It didn't feel good...We fired the guy [algorithm specialist]...and went back to what we do." (Sal, 16:06)
    • "The path is far more narrow and harder...but it's so much more rewarding." (Adam, 12:26)

• Defining True Success

  • Roxanne posits that success is internal—being free to express one's evolving self, not subscribing to society's metrics.
    • "What does it really mean to you, Roxanne? For me, it's: I just want to be who the fuck I am." (Roxanne, 11:03)

2. Brotherhood, Teamwork & Navigating Partnership

• Foundation of Selflessness

  • Adam and Sal argue the secret, above even aligned values/consciousness, is “selflessness”—loving your partners and being willing to carry them when they're down.
    • "True selflessness...If you enter into any relationship with that attitude, what comes from that is this beautiful, growing relationship." (Adam, 21:27)
  • Sal describes going through divorce shortly after starting Mind Pump and how his partners "held him up" for years while he operated at 10%.
    • "They held me up that whole time...now the loyalty that it'll create...after that, it's like they just solidified it." (Sal, 23:23)

• Unusual Trust and Structure

  • The group shares that, despite their differences, they've built a company on unwavering trust—even splitting everything equally and not having a formal partnership agreement for years.
    • "I don't know if you could do this in the right way without that attitude, because otherwise you become tyrannized by this thing you're chasing." (Sal, 17:57)

• Teammates vs. Friends

  • The distinction: teammates have a shared mission and weather more friction than friends, but both require selflessness.
    • "Both include selflessness, but one has a goal, the other doesn’t." (Adam, 33:43)
  • Teammates’ wins feel like your own; trust and respect reign even in disagreement.
    • "If there's friction...you run towards each other, you don't run from each other." (Roxanne, 35:46)

3. Navigating Public Life and Privacy

• Balanced Approach to Fame

  • The hosts reflect on being recognized and maintaining personal boundaries (e.g., Sal avoids saying his kids’ names), and their intentional focus on “the brand” rather than personal celebrity.
  • "None of us desire that. We don't want the limelight." (Adam, 40:00)
  • Authenticity off-mic translates to fan trust:
    • "Early days...fans would say, 'You guys are just like you sound on the podcast.'...it was weird for us." (Sal, 43:06)
    • "We're not out there juggling fire...I'm not trying really hard to get your attention. If you relate, you find me." (Justin, 42:38)

• On Fame, Exposure & Upbringing’s Influence

  • Roxanne and Adam discuss how childhood experiences (violence, hypervigilance) shaped their authenticity and ability to “read” people.
    • "It's animal instinct. You can just read it quickly." (Roxanne, 46:10)

4. Challenges, Evolution, and Staying Grounded

• Personal and Professional Growth

  • The hosts recount how they’ve each “lived multiple lives” within Mind Pump, from Sal’s newfound faith and remarriage after divorce, to Adam’s transition to fatherhood, to Justin opening up on the mic thanks in part to improv training.
    • "I feel like I've lived two lives in this ten years." (Adam, 51:24)
    • "I was conscious of everything I was doing as opposed to just being in the moment...One is reserved and one is less reserved." (Justin, 55:02)

• Navigating Big Business Pivots

  • They discuss their major recent pivot: moving away from digital products (as AI threatens that space) back towards high-touch, real human coaching and building a large team of elite trainers.
    • "We HAVE to get back in touch with people...we have to do that through trainers." (Adam, 61:45)
    • "We want really good trainers...not gonna rush the process." (Sal, 62:07)

• Finding Meaning in Difficulty

  • On challenge and discomfort as the fuel for growth, and emotional discipline required to lead.
    • "We look back and go, the best thing that happened was the challenge...Being in the fire is the best part." (Adam, 65:01)
    • "What we want is certainty in here [self], not out here [circumstance]." (Roxanne, 68:34)

• Limiting Beliefs & Confidence

  • The team reveals they share “delirious confidence,” but acknowledge letting go of myths—like “I can do anything”—and embracing humility.
    • "Something that could be a limiting belief: that I can do anything I put my mind to...That's a myth." (Sal, 73:06)
    • "If you're doing something based on a lie, you've entered hell." (Sal, 49:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Podcasting’s Emotional Impact:

  • "I never forget where I come from, ever...And you so graciously were like, 'Let me listen.' And you told me, 'You're a natural. You're gonna do great.'" (Roxanne to Sal, 09:16)

• Vulnerability Among Alphas:

  • "You guys are directional, you're logical, you have your sarcasm—so masculine. But then there's the empathy, compassion, the creativity together, the feminine...that's so beautiful." (Roxanne, 79:04)

• Tears & Tribute – the “See Me” Exercise ([85:18] onward):

  • Roxanne prompts each to share what the others may not recognize in themselves, leading to emotional, tearful tributes:
    • Justin on Sal: "He's just such a passionate person...He could be like my mom."
    • Justin on Adam: "The most honest person I know..."
    • Justin on Doug: "Zen master...brings us back on track."
    • Sal on Doug: "He's just a good man...He's a very quiet leader."
    • Sal on Justin: "Justin is a rock...super loyal, solid."
    • Sal on Adam: "He's the gas of the operation...incredibly loyal, big heart."
    • Adam on Doug: "Our Master Splinter...the operations don't work without him."
    • Adam on Justin: "So confident and humble, strong integrity, doesn't need credit."
    • Adam on Sal: "He's the mother of the group...so much heart, humble, star player."

• On Masculinity & Fatherhood:

  • "Men need to be around other good men. A man without good men around is undisciplined and wild." (Sal, 84:14)
  • "The best compliment...is when a caller says, 'I didn't want to be a dad, and now I do.'" (Sal, 82:43)

• Looking Forward:

  • "I'd love to have the first national coaching brand...to create the standard." (Sal, 110:33)
  • "In a perfect spot, we'd do the podcast two or three times a week and grow the in-person side." (Adam, 110:10)
  • "Just a whole fleet of trainers that we get to pump up, teach and send off to do the good deeds." (Justin, 112:07)

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Detailed Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:31] – Roxanne introduces her journey and admiration for the Mind Pump team
• [06:41] – Roxanne’s emotional essay on their impact, “podcast spiritual brothers”
• [09:16] – Roxanne recounts Sal’s early feedback, discusses authenticity and impact
• [12:26] – Adam and Sal reflect on resisting algorithm/game-playing
• [16:06] – Story of firing the YouTube “algorithm guy” and returning to authenticity
• [21:19] – Partnership success: selflessness, agape love
• [23:23] – Sal’s divorce and support from partners, loyalty
• [33:43] – Teammates vs friends
• [38:12] – Managing privacy, being recognized in public
• [51:24] – “How many lives have you lived?”—hosts share personal evolution
• [61:45] – Business pivot: from digital to high-touch coaching
• [65:01] – On loving the “fire” of challenge, emotional discipline, finding meaning in struggle
• [73:06] – Limiting beliefs and the myth of self-sufficiency
• [79:04] – On masculine/feminine energy balance
• [82:43] – On fatherhood and reconstructing positive masculinity
• [85:18] – “See Me” exercise: the hosts celebrate each other’s unseen strengths (emotional highlight)
• [110:07] – Looking ahead: the future of Mind Pump, in-person training, legacy

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Final Reflections

This heartfelt, often deeply personal episode offers a rare view inside a working partnership built on not just shared vision but unwavering trust, humility, and real friendship. Roxanne's skillful, compassionate questions tease out both vulnerable anecdotes and hard-won advice for any team, business, or individual wrestling with authenticity and ambition. It’s a love letter to 10 years of Mind Pump—and a model for how business, brotherhood, and self-mastery can combine for profound impact.

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For more, find Roxanne at The Roxanne Show and @roxylook on Instagram.
Follow Mind Pump: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug

Transcript

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Sal Destefano]

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[Roxanne Safai]

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[Doug]

To pump your body and expand your.

[Adam Schaefer]

Mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal Destefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump Today's episode. This is unique. We've never done this before. We had somebody in the studio, good friend of our Robin, Roxanne Safai. We've known her for a long time. She has a great podcast called the Roxanne Show. She came in to interview us for her podcast. Now the show turned out to be amazing. She asked us some of the best questions anyone's ever asked us in a podcast. And it was great because we got to reminisce on the years we've been together. It's now been 10 years. We liked it so much we got quite emotional in fact in this episode that we thought we would drop it on our channel. So if you've been listening to Mind Pump for a long time, you want to hear how we got started and what makes us tick. And with somebody that knows how to ask those questions and ask them the right way, that's what today's episode's all about. So we'd like to thank Roxanne for this episode and thank her for letting us post it on our channel. And again, if you're a fan of Mind Pump, we know you're going to like this episode. Now you can find Roxanne on her podcast, the Roxanne Show. You can also find her on Instagram, rockseedlook. So that's R O X Y L O O K. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, Seed. This is literally the world's best probiotics. So if you know all the benefits of probiotics, Seed has the world's leading researchers. It's the best probiotic you'll ever find. If you want the gut health benefits, the skin health benefits, the mental health benefits, the recovery and muscle building effects that probiotics can provide that the data now shows, go with seed. Seed.com mindpump, that's the link. And if you use the code 20mindpump, you'll get 20% off. We also have a sale going on with a new program this month, maps 15 symmetry. So this is maps symmetry, but the 15 minute version. So 15 minutes a day work on balancing the body, developing aesthetic physique. It's 50% off because it's a brand new program. You got to get it here though, go to 15 symmetry.com. you use the code December50 for the discount. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Roxanne Safai]

I was a celebrity makeup artist, right? That's how I met my fucking ultimate teammate who's in this room right here. Carrie. Yeah, Right. And so the highest expression in martial arts is what?

[Sal Destefano]

Black belt.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

And to me, oh, I got it. Black belt, beauty.

[Roxanne Safai]

But no, it's not even the beauty thing. Oh, that's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I keep messing up.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, it's Jiu jitsu.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, this is why I changed it. Nobody fucking got it right.

[Roxanne Safai]

You love the name, but no, to me, to live the highest expression, the most beautiful life, is to live from the highest expression of yourself. Right, right. So that's where I was overly poetic probably, which I can totally be at times because I'm a writer, you know, and so. But yeah, four years ago is when I rebranded. And that was a big deal because I was already. So December is year eight that I've been podcasting, which is fucking heavy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Makes us feel.

[Roxanne Safai]

It's really, you know, that puts you.

[Sal Destefano]

In a special category.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Most, not a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

Surv.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, the stats on that are crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

First of all, the average only make it to 12 episodes. Then even that person. Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

How's the show been growing?

[Adam Schaefer]

How's it been doing?

[Roxanne Safai]

It's great. I mean, it's top 1%, but that's still. I don't want to put it down. I don't want to say it doesn't mean anything to me, but it's still. The beautiful part for me is that I feel like I'm endlessly beginning. Right. Like, it's always. There's always another level. There's always more to grow into. However.

[Sal Destefano]

It's fun, though.

[Roxanne Safai]

Oh, oh, it's. It's beyond fun. It's Dharma.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Like, I'm living my Dharma. I. I came here to do this, amongst other things, but this is me expressing myself.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Roxanne Safai]

The highest level. Right. This is connection creation. And, you know, on the. On the flight here, I publish an essay every week on Substack, and I decided to write about this experience with you guys as this week's essay.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, It's. It's really. It actually got me really emotional.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, really?

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah. Well, for a couple reasons.

[Sal Destefano]

Should we put this on air?

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it out?

[Roxanne Safai]

You're not recording?

[Adam Schaefer]

No. Is it up?

[Roxanne Safai]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, no, no. Let's get this going because we're gonna lose all this amazing content I've been recording.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but we need the video.

[Sal Destefano]

We gotta make sure the video's going. Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

D. Where you at, dude?

[Sal Destefano]

We're.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're good to go. Sounds like. Let's make sure we catch her. All this. When you're talking about us.

[Sal Destefano]

I want to make sure this is good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Tell his brain goes.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know what she's going to say.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I want to record. Before you talk about how. How awesome I am.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what got me into podcast? I saw you morons.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can totally see these three could do it. I could definitely do this.

[Sal Destefano]

Idiots can do it. Oh, my God. I'm going to crush.

[Adam Schaefer]

Ok, sorry. We started a lot. We got a lot of people into podcasting that. Exactly.

[Sal Destefano]

These guys. You barely have two brain cells together.

[Roxanne Safai]

You guys are hilarious.

[Sal Destefano]

You got the time? All right. We're good. All right. So. Okay, you were saying you.

[Adam Schaefer]

You.

[Roxanne Safai]

So on my. On my flight here.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

To come sit in this very special chair in this moment with you guys, I decided that my essay for the week. I publish an essay every week on Substack that I would be kind of sharing a journal entry, and this journal entry would be about you guys and about this experience right now, this vision that I've held for now. So it's November right now. December will Be eight years since I started podcasting. Right. And I've had the vision of sitting here with all of you since I started my show, in fact, before the show, because. So my brother Arya Safai was a guest on your show. And 2017. Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was 2017.

[Roxanne Safai]

Not wild. It's a long time. I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Back then, I almost had hair. Back then, actually, 2017, I might have had higher, too.

[Sal Destefano]

You had muscles.

[Adam Schaefer]

I have hair. Guy. Did I have hair in 2017? Yeah. You sure?

[Sal Destefano]

I did.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think I did.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

Wow. A long time ago. Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, yeah, it was. It's crazy, right? It doesn't seem like that long ago, but when you think about it, it.

[Sal Destefano]

Was a long time ago.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, 2025 right now. And, you know, and I went back and I listened to that episode actually, in preparation for this moment right now, which was so special for so many reasons. But he introduced me to you guys, like, hey, I think you'd really like their show. And I was super into podcasting back then. Right. I was listening to Tim Ferriss, Tom Bilyeu, and then. And then tuned into you guys, and I was fucking hooked. And I was hooked for several reasons, some of which we will totally tear open and talk about today. Authenticity was number one. It's felt. It's easy for me to feel it, because that is just how I function, how I've always functioned. Right. So it's. It's Emerson's quote, those who live truly shall see truly. I really. I really believe that. Right? Yeah. Love Emerson.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

And so I got so into you guys. And at that time, too, I started lifting heavy weights finally, because my brother's been telling me for so long. And I grew up in the 80s. I was like, cardio now. I don't want to get fucking bulky. That's why hearing about your. Your daughter and lifting is super special, because I didn't grow up at that time. You know, it's. It's different now. And you guys, I believe, have a big part of you. You have created so much impact in that way on just how, as a woman, I'll speak to it, how we feel about our bodies being strong and how to get strong.

[Sal Destefano]

So thank you.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, no, thank you. And so as I'm on the flight and I'm writing this essay, I'm like, fuck, man. This is so special because, number one, I had this vision, and it's now happening. Right. Number two, you guys have been sort of like spiritual podcast brothers to me because, Sal, you. I mean, it's incredible. And I want everyone to fucking hear this or watch this moment. But I remember before I launched the show, I did a couple solo soads. I call them solo soads. And I sent them to you. Cause you said, let me hear them, so I can. I mean, you may not even remember this, but this is one of those moments where I'm one of those people. I never forget where I come from, ever. Right? And you so graciously were like, let me listen. And you told me, you're like, you're a natural. You're gonna do great. You even gave me fucking great advice that it didn't register, like, how to get the show in the top 100, whatever, anyways. But as I've been journeying now, again, close to eight years, which is such a. It's a big deal. So being here with you guys is a big deal because it reflects back to me that I'm here.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, holy shit.

[Roxanne Safai]

But also what's been so special. And I really. I really trust that you're gonna feel this from my heart, because it's the only place I fucking speak from. But I have been cheerleading you guys on in spirit this whole way through. And to see you, like, to sit in your studio now, to know and witness all of your incredible growth is so tremendous and it's so deserved. And. And I'll close on this before we. When I started thinking about the idea of success, whenever the fuck that was, maybe high school or I don't even know. No, it had to been a little bit later when I started deeply thinking about what is success to you, right? Not society's ideas. Because I've never subscribed to any of that. Right. Maverick, for sure. But, like, what does it really mean to you, Roxanne? And for me, it's. I just want to be who the fuck I am. I want to evolve as authentically. Because, you know, we. I was just telling Carrie, at 47 now, I've lived. I've calculated this. I've lived, like, 10 lives. So I want to honor my authentic evolution. I want to be free to express myself. I want to be free. Right? And to be free. Authenticity is a huge part of it. And when I look at all three of you sitting here, you guys have fucking done it. And done doesn't mean you're done. There's still so much more to go. But you've truly done the thing. You have been you the whole way through, and you've built from ground zero to a massive brand and business, which are really two different things. Yes, they Go together, but they're two different things. You've done it with heart, you've done it with soul, and you've done it with the deepest level of integrity. And I'm just honoring you.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, thank you.

[Adam Schaefer]

What a compliment. What a compliment. Thank you. It's awesome.

[Roxanne Safai]

Real.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I love that Speechless doesn't happen.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. Yeah. Emotional. I get all emotional. I feel that, though, you know, I really do. I think that we did do it our own way, and a lot of times that path is. Is far more narrow and harder.

[Roxanne Safai]

It is.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's. It takes longer, but it's so much more rewarding, you know, to sit here, to be able to do this 11 years later and not feel like we've drifted from ourselves at all. We just talked about this on a recent episode that. How crazy it is and how insidious you can become. The algorithm. And I think even people. Even people with good hearts and good intention like to get out. They start putting themselves out there, and they. They start to get rewarded or liked or shared because they do a thing. And then it's like, oh, let me do a little more of that thing. And it's just like this. This real slow drift from who you are, and. And then all of a sudden, you get rewarded for it, and you get praised and you get money and you get success and adoration and all this. And it's like. And you wake up one day and you're like, oh, like, who am I?

[Sal Destefano]

Who am I?

[Adam Schaefer]

And you're. And you got all this attention, you got all this fame, you got money, all the things that you thought were. You were chasing, and you're so unhappy because you're not really yourself. I can't tell you how many really famous, popular people we get to meet and talk to. And when the mics are off, you can feel that energy from.

[Sal Destefano]

You want to.

[Adam Schaefer]

You want to know.

[Sal Destefano]

You want to. I mean, if you want a little behind the scenes. So I was just having this conversation with these guys. I was just driving, I was praying, and I was just thinking about how blessed I've been and how I used to think how awesome I was and realizing that a lot of it is. Some people would say luck. I think it was just blessing to have these partners that would check me and that we would check. We have so much respect for each other that we can do that and it not be like this personal, defensive. It might sting, but we do that for each other. And just behind the scenes, relatively recently, we had hired. And I like Sharing the story. Cause it's not easy. We hired somebody who understood the YouTube algorithm. And so his job for us when we hired him was, I'm going to help your podcast do a lot better on YouTube. Now, we do okay on. You do pretty well on YouTube, but there's channels out there that are just, you know, 3 million subscribers. And, you know, the channel itself is generating all this revenue. And it's like, you know, if we have this great show, this, you know, great impact, like, are we missing something? Is it. Can we. Can we do something better and reach more people? So this guy gets on and he's trying to help us with the algorithm. And so what he would do is he would send titles that he, through his, you know, analyzing, would do well, and they would get more clicks and more views. And Roxanne, it started to. It felt not good. We could feel it. It didn't feel good. It wasn't the same. Now we would take his title and do it in our way, kind of. And kind of shoe horns. So it was authentic because we couldn't just outright be something else. But it definitely wasn't. We definitely took the compass and turned it a little bit, and we could feel it. We were getting more views and we were getting more attention, but it wasn't feeling great. And I remember there was a point I think was at our Christmas. It was our Christmas party. Justin and I are looking at each other and I'm like, man, doing the podcast, it's been feeling sucky. He's like, yeah, dude. And I'm like, you know, we're trying to follow the trend when what we've done from day one is either create the trend or miss big. Like, that's all. That's what we've done instead of all we've done.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And so we fired the guy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And we got rid of them and went back to. We're gonna go with what we feel is helping people, and it's a billion times more. More rewarding. But we even. I mean, it's hard because you run a business, you employ people, and it's really easy to say, well, it's going to reach more people. And if we want to reach people, then there's a better way to reach people. And, you know, maybe we can do it in this way or that way, but it was taking us away from. From what you're talking about, that authenticity, which, you know, by the way, where that comes from, it's training people, coaching people. That's where.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's where we got that didn't last very long, though.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

How long do you last? Six months.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it was less than that.

[Adam Schaefer]

What do you say?

[Sal Destefano]

Six months?

[Doug]

Four to six months?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it was long, bro. No, it wasn't long.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it was, but it didn't feel good.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, that's right.

[Sal Destefano]

It was.

[Adam Schaefer]

We felt really quick. We were open to, okay, oh, it's. This doesn't feel right, but let's see. And it was just like, no, it ain't happening.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no.

[Roxanne Safai]

And that takes a lot of guts. It does. To. To be able to. And maybe it. Maybe to. To the three of you, it doesn't feel that it. Guts is involved, but it's really. Like you said, it's so easy. And Adam said, like, you're getting more clicks, you're getting more views. You want this stuff, right? You want to grow. And you can. You can rationalize with that part of it. Like, more views, more people being helped. You can even, like, position. But when you have a strong sense of self, integrity, I mean, that's. It's. You're in contention with your own. You know, in that situation, you're in contention with your integrity. And I think that an integrity is so special and so important to me, it's such a really important, top core value attribute. And so I think it does take guts. When you are in a business and you're in it to grow to scale and you find yourself in a situation.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you know how many times we've said this in a meeting? Like, one of us have said this. I think each of us at one point said something similar. It's like, I'll burn this down and start over so long as I could work with these guys. And so, okay, if it doesn't work and the whole thing gets destroyed, we'll start over. But I don't know if you could do this in the right way without that attitude, because otherwise you. You become tyrannized by this thing that you're. You're chasing that becomes your. You start to. To twist and shape all your. Your either your morals or your goals towards this thing that you're aiming for, which is a terrible thing to serve.

[Justin Andrews]

So, yeah, it's. It's almost in kind of going back to that story. Like, it's. It's a blessing that it didn't work.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And we kind of talked about that is, you know, because we do want to grow and we do want to reach more people, and we want all those things, you know, for the business. But if it's not who we are and it's not what we've been doing. And, and you know, who cares? Who cares? It's not worth it. It's just not, it didn't feel, it didn't resonate with us. And so we, we'd rather get the success from, you know, knowing that we're helping people and we're doing things the way that we would do it.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, because I think you define success in that way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right. To do it the other way. Sure. Metric wise, maybe money wise, you know, attention wise, somebody could say that. Success. But to, to, to you three, and I'm with you, that that's not successful. If you have to step out of your integrity and who you truly are, then it's. Then what is that really? Mike, I have questions. So I, I, I've distilled. Cause first of all, I'm a street fucking philosopher and all three of you are too. So we are going to go deep in philosophy here. So I, I like to think about ideas, play with them. When I wake up at fucking 3:34 in the morning, sitting there in the dark with my red light, and I was, you know, recently thinking about relationships and what does it really take? And all kinds of relationships, so friendships, business partnerships, what does it really take to keep the vitality of a relationship intact? And vitality, when I use that word, very strategically meaning. So it's kind of like health span, not just longevity. Right. But like, how do you keep these healthy years going as long as they can? Right. So in a relationship. And this was very bold of me because obviously relationships are super complex. Right. But I have distilled it down to two factors that I feel play the largest role in the vitality of a relationship. Factor number one is the degree at which your consciousness aligns. And number two is your values. So my question. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And then there's a question that when you guys started, when you, you, you came together to start Mind Pump, do you feel that back then your consciousness and your values were already very much in alignment? And has, you know, the past 11 years of you working together, has it just become more in alignment? Has, what's your take on.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's an interesting thing. I would put something above those two things, actually.

[Roxanne Safai]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Selflessness, at least that's, I was gonna.

[Sal Destefano]

Say agape, which is sacrificial love.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, selflessness. I think that true selflessness. I mean, I think that's what served my marriage. I think that's what served this relationship. It's easy to say. It's harder to truly practice.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. To, to not count what the other person is or isn't doing and focus, but focus on what can I do for them. I think if you enter into any relationship with that attitude, what comes from that is this incredible, beautiful, growing relationship.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And sometimes that requires you to go through a period of time when maybe you don't feel like you're receiving a lot on the other end and you're giving so much of yourself. But if you truly believe and that's the path to a deep, meaningful relationship, then it'll get there eventually.

[Sal Destefano]

I'll give you a personal, like a clear one example of what Adam's saying. I, I we started the podcast and I very shortly after got divorced. So this is 15 year marriage, two kids. Devastating. Devastating. And I brought my best here, which was 10%. That was the most I could offer my partners when I showed up. And I really, really cared about this business. I care about my partners. But I was just crushed. And these guys held me up for probably years, probably, probably two or three years when I was giving and knowing I was giving 10% and that was the most I could give. And they held me up that whole time. And so in a traditional example of a relationship, they would have been very justified to look at me and go, what are you doing, dude? You're giving us 10%. You're equal partners. You got to show it more. But they held me up. They held me up and I did what I could do and there's things that I could bring. But it was 10% of sales.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And that's all they got and they held me up. So now the loyalty that it'll create, which I already, they already had my loyalty. But after that it's like they just solidified it. So that's I think what Adam's talking about.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

With that.

[Roxanne Safai]

So I sort of categorize both in the consciousness zone though, because when we are higher, like and I'm not, it's not better than everyone. Every soul has their journey. Right. And you are where you are. But if our souls consciousness are in more in alignment then I do believe that the more that one's consciousness is expanded or elevated, we are also able to be less self centric and to have that empathy and that grace and that patience because I think I really believe that comes with being a higher conscious individual. Right. So I kind of group put it into.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. It's interesting though because I think like what's. So what came to Mind for me right away, why I wouldn't put it above the selflessness is that I mean when we first started this, Sal was atheist. That couldn't be farther from my consciousness and my belief. I have a very deep spiritual connection and relationship with God and have my whole life. And so he was very science based and approached the way he looks. Yeah, very different than me but yet we were able to still very much so align and connect on, on other values that I do agree that that would be a top five thing like I think you have to have because nonetheless his, his value for people, his selflessness, his heart, those things were very much so aligned. And I mean I had the pleasure of working with Justin long before all of this. And so I already knew where him and I were connected. You know, Doug was, Doug was a gift that came with Sal that I was unaware of until we did it. But it's interesting like when I look back, I mean we're coming up on, we're celebrating our big 10 year. Like it's officially will be 11, but we're doing our 10 year party and there's like it's, it'll be a. Then we did a lot of like video and special stuff that we're going to do. So we've been reflecting a lot. Yeah. On this. So it's interesting we're going this direction because I've thought a lot about it. Like it's crazy to think that and, and we meet people like we're, we're doing this stuff with our trust and family stuff with this company and, and the guy was telling me the other day when I'm talking to him, he's like, you guys are crazy. He goes, I've been doing this for like 40 something years, helped hundreds of businesses. I have never seen a four way partnership that you guys like. And I don't know if you know this or like everything we have is a partnership. We have real estate, we have investments, we have stock, we have. It's a quarter down the middle on everything. And it's impossible for everybody in this room to equally handle all that stuff. It doesn't matter. It's just there is a brotherhood and a bond that anything that manifests from this is all of ours. And one guy can take a hiatus and only give 10%. One guy can take off for good. And we've already agreed that quarter, that quarter of anything and everything of this is yours and nothing breaks out. And you know, it's interesting to think like I don't know, I don't know what, what it was that, that created that early on.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I just to contribute to that, I think, you know, we're talking about values and we're talking about, you know, from, from the spiritual end of it. I think the more leaned more towards the values of it and saw the potential of where it could go and knowing their values and really kind of picking up on their integrity. And you know, I'm a very observant person and so, you know, this can come across like I don't, you know, talk all the time or, you know, maybe I'm, you know, maybe I'm not as out spoken. But at the same time it's like I am taking mental notes and I'm, you know, watching action and really I'm, that's what I'm most concerned with. You know, people can talk and say whatever they want to me and it doesn't register unless I see it play out. And I, I saw that in them. And so, you know, for me it was like, it was an obvious thing that, that you can build something great with that.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I've seen this in teams that I've been a part of for sports. And there's like that, that core sense that everybody involved has this like, like desire to be great and to grow and, and to, and maintain these values that are really strong. And so it was a very similar type of a aspect and vibe that I got like initially meeting them.

[Sal Destefano]

So Justin has a crazy gift of discernment. He picks, he'll, he sniffs out.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

In somebody who lacks integrity from 10 miles away.

[Adam Schaefer]

He comes in so skeptical. That's why.

[Sal Destefano]

But he just, you know, I'm very skeptical. Mine's pretty good. But his is like, like, he's like, man, he's got that counter. Which is really good, I think. You know, I, I, you know, I'm trying to think about it because some of it was, I'll say a blessing because some of it was like, this is hindsight. So now looking back, like, oh my God.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, I know, right?

[Sal Destefano]

We didn't have, we didn't sign paperwork on this partnership for years.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yep.

[Sal Destefano]

You know that we ran this. How long did we run this part, Shake? Before we officially wrote.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't think we have any official paperwork. So we had an operating agreement, a.

[Sal Destefano]

Real generic one I think might come from knowing that you don't deserve this. So if so. Because we're human, like, we're all super flawed. Okay. So each of us, if we wanted to make a list of the things that you know, we probably could guess what annoys our partners about us. We could probably write a list. All of us. Like, I know that they hate it when I'm this and I fail here, and we could all do that easily. And so it's like, you know, I don't deserve this. So when, you know, Doug or Justin or Adam does something, it's very easy for me to be like, whatever. Like, okay, that's cool.

[Roxanne Safai]

Like, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, this is just.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's so funny, though, because we're all so very different.

[Sal Destefano]

Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, because, I mean, I. I resonate a lot with what Justin says because we played team sports growing up, and I. And I studied a lot of, like, military, like Navy SEALs and stuff like that. And like, that brotherhood that they have, that bond and selflessness of, like, it's the. You're the other guy above you at all cost. And that creates this unbelievable force that. That's how I entered this, this business. Like, that's the only way for it to. To just destroy anything in its path and be successful with. And that, like, every great sport team, every great Navy SEAL team, they have that brotherhood. And so I think. And I know Justin relates to that because of playing sports. It's interesting to me that I feel Doug and Sal have that too, although they didn't. They didn't really like, he played solo sport, but that. Yet that. That, like, resonates with everybody. I feel like of this, like, it's about the. There's times and then you've. Because you've listened long enough so you've probably heard us express where. I mean, Sal and I are, like, going at each other. I mean, if somebody could see what it looks like, people will be like, oh, the whole company's going. People would think it's like the end. I'm sure, like, Dylan could talk about the first time that he ever heard it. Like, he probably went like, oh, I'm not gonna have a job. Yeah. Or, yeah, Justin just kind of like that, that. The meme of what's his face, he.

[Justin Andrews]

Goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm Homer Simpson.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I mean, there's countless, countless times of us, but it's always for the good of the team. It's never about ego. It's never about, I'm more now. And I, I. We both want it. Like, I want you to care that much that you're going to get in my face and tell me I'm wrong and prove to me I'm wrong, and I'm going to battle for What I think is right because. Not because I care for my ego, but because I think it's the right path for the business.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so we all embrace that.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what's. You know what's cool about that, though?

[Adam Schaefer]

That's cool.

[Sal Destefano]

So you ever. You ever hang around with, like, an old couple, like a married couple that have been married for. This is my parents. I'll use my parents as an example. They're both now in their 60s. They've been married for 40 years. And I remember as a kid they'd get in these blowout fights. Right. Marriage is hard, especially when you have four kids, immigrant family, the whole deal. Now I'll hear them bicker about things that used to cause blowouts, but it's different. It's almost comical. They don't take it nearly as personal. It's not a big deal because they've kind of grown together, accepted certain things. And so, like, I'm just thinking back, like, those things, you and I, even Adam, you and I probably butt head the most. It happens less and less.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, we don't notice.

[Sal Destefano]

Which is wild, because we've been together. All of us have been together for so long that I think it's like an old couple. Like, we're getting to the point now where there'll be, like, a few remarks and a little.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is like a. Like a backhanded slide. Exactly. Or whatever.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, I think what. So what I hear and feel, feel is you guys really trust each other.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

And. And trust and respect really go hand in hand. In fact, I'll say love does, too. Right. And so, you know, even in. In friction moments, you. You can. You can have at it because you trust each other. You trust that it's okay. It's safe to disagree. It's safe because at the end of the day, you guys are on the same fucking team, and team is really important. Something I really wanted to talk about with the three of you. So I have this whole. Again, Deep Thinker created a podcast episode about it. Carrie and I talk about it all the time, but I really believe that there's a difference between teammates and friends. And it can sound. Immediately they're like, yeah, exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

100%. 100 what?

[Roxanne Safai]

Tell me from your perspective. Well, what is that difference to you?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, they both include selflessness, but one of them has a goal, the other one doesn't.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, we're both. We're moving in direction.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we're.

[Sal Destefano]

We.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have. We have a. We have a shared. Shared goal and mission that we're on. Friendship is different. Friendship is selflessness, love, companionship there for each other. But you, you don't sit down with your friend and go, like, we're trying to get here. Let's figure it out together. And so, yeah, there's. There's a difference there. Both require, I think, a high level of selflessness. But the team also requires that we're. We're rowing in a similar direction, which I think also more friction will naturally bubble up because there's more going on there. Friendship is like. There's a lot more compassion and empathy and like, oh, they're going through it right now. Not a big deal. We don't tell that way. We don't talk for a couple of weeks, get back together. It's like. But like, we have to live with each other every day no matter what.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because we have a very specific goal. And I don't care how mad I am at you or not or whatever, it's like I show up to next day or I get on these mics with you five minutes later, and it's like, we gotta. We got. We have. We have a goal to get after. And so there's definitely a huge difference.

[Justin Andrews]

I might not like YouTube. We're hanging out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. You should see.

[Sal Destefano]

You should see.

[Adam Schaefer]

When Justin's in a bad mood, he's like this moody little chick over there. He's still. He's still quiet. Yeah, he gets even quieter. Yeah, yeah, he gets even quieter. I don't see him a little harder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.

[Sal Destefano]

Grunts, Little steam and everything's heavier. Everything's heavier.

[Justin Andrews]

Everything's heavier.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is the bike heavier? Slam heavier. The door closes heavier.

[Roxanne Safai]

This makes so much sense.

[Justin Andrews]

I see it like a tantrum. I get angry, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm allowed to get angry. But I mean, everybody. Hey, but he. He gets the job done. Does his podcast, shows up, does what he's got to do, gets through his. You know what I'm saying? And like, Like a team does that. A team understands the goal is above each other, thyself. And so even when there's, you know, stuff. Surf bubbling or stuff going on, it's like we have a mission and we can't. We can't let this simmer for three days.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah. I really feel that teammates, because in my world, for example, and I'm just gonna use Carrie Gabrielle Lyon, also one of my sister best friends. Right. If there's friction, if there's tension, if there's. You run towards each other, you don't run from Each other. Right. That's one thing. Another thing is her wins are my wins. Like, I want my fucking. I want all my friends. I want my loved ones to win. Right? Shit. You guys are like, again, I'm like, I want you guys to win. You're winning. What I'm trying to say is that Carrie's independent wins. Her desires that have nothing to do with me. They do spiritually, because I love her so much and her wins mean everything to me. And, you know, there's this. Was it Simon. Simon Sinek? I think it's. He. He talks about how it's less common for friends to celebrate your wins.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right. Versus, like, you're more likely to have people in your life, your friends, who will be there for you when you're down versus when totally you're fucking winning.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everybody wants you to be successful winning the underdog until you pass them and then they're not so excited anymore.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right, Exactly. So I think that that also plays into.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, to me, that's what defines, like, a real true friendship. Like, I definitely have. I have a lot of acquaintances. I have people that I would call friends, and then I have, like, real friends.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like. And even so, I have, like. And I have these friends that, you know, love to kind of root me along a little. This. But they still want to make sure they're doing a little bit better, you know what I'm saying? Saying, until. Until they. And then. Then they're different when you pass them. Then they're critical or they. They don't hang around as much. But then I have like. Like, you know, brotherhood friends who can't wait to hear about the success or the things that you're doing. And they're inquiring, they're asking, they're. Oh, my God, what? And just. It's a different level of friendship, you know, and there's. Those are a much smaller, smaller number, you know.

[Roxanne Safai]

How has it been for you guys, you know, being so public, growing massively in the public, in your personal lives? Like, a couple things, like, I'm so curious to how you manage privacy and connection out here, because that's a big deal for me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

And then how has it also been in terms of, like, personal relationships as you've been growing, you know, have. Have certain relationships fallen out as a result of.

[Sal Destefano]

It's. I get conflicted with the public part of it. It's conflicting because I like when people stop me and say, hey, man, you guys really helped me. But then the other part of. Is, like, I am very protective of my family. So if I'm with my kids, especially with my kids, I'm like, I don't want. In fact, if you listen to podcasts, you'll rarely hear me actually say their names. I'll refer to my oldest, my youngest, my 2 year old, my 4 year old, whatever, because of that. So there's a bit of a conflict. And I, boy, I don't know if I'd ever want to be so publicly known that, that I get stopped all the time, all over the place, unless it was really benefiting people in a purposeful way and then I could kind of talk.

[Adam Schaefer]

I thought we were, I thought we were really mindful about this. And I, I'm actually, I think we have a really good, healthy balance with it. Right. It's inevitable, the amount of people we reach, that you're going to get recognized.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

We go into big cities or places like that, it's almost always that you're going to have somebody walk up to you or what like that. But we also, again, putting the business first. I mean, we even, we didn't want to grow our personal brand. Like it was Mind Pump Adam. Mind Pump Justin. Like it's the brand first. None of us try and really grow our personal pages. That's just by. From the business growing. That's kind of naturally grown. Yeah, it's always been grow the Mind Pump media page. It's always about highlighting our staff and our people in front of us. Yes, we understand that people want more of us. And so there's times where we step forward and we, and we do that none of us had ever wanted to. This is also why the dynamic works where Sal can dominate the conversation and none of us, nobody wants the limelight. Nobody's like, hey, it's. When we first started, we don't.

[Sal Destefano]

None of us desire that.

[Adam Schaefer]

There was four of us, right? So when we first started, there was four of us, Craig.

[Sal Destefano]

Four hosts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Four hosts. And one of the first conversations we ever had off air was like, man, like, like, I remember the first recording we did, 15 recordings that never made it to air before we launched with him. And you know, looking back now, it's crazy because he would have the whole dynamic up because one of the, one of the first things that happened was like after the first episode, he, he, he cared so much because he's been on covers of magazines. He was the most already well known. He, he cared so much about equal air time.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what he said?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, wow.

[Sal Destefano]

He literally is like, all right, Sal, you talked a lot on that one and the next one, Adam did this and so the next one you're gonna open it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

We're like, no. What?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. All of us were like, who cares? Yeah, who cares? That's not how I'd have a conversation.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

So.

[Adam Schaefer]

So. Yeah. So we. So early on, nobody wanted fame, nobody wanted attention. And I think because of that we've had this. Really. And. And also think it helped that it was like slow growth. Like it wasn't like overnight success for us. I imagine that would be really hard to be like a kid or a young person. And also we're older.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And be not known. And then the next day you're a blockbuster movie and like millions. We had this like real. So like I remember, like, hey, someone recognized me. Like, it was like a big deal, you know, say, like somebody knew who I was. That's so crazy. Right? It was like that one time it happened. Right. And then it like started to happen a little bit more.

[Sal Destefano]

We're also in our 30s when it started.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But I mean, had we done in our early 20s, it would have been really probably more challenging, of course, because.

[Adam Schaefer]

It would have fed our ego more. Cared more about that stuff. But I think we figured out by this, by the time we got to that place, that no, none of us really wanted it or liked it that much. And so it's. And I think I'm probably the most open and sharing my personal life. I'd say probably out of all of us. Yeah. I'm the most public about that. And that's just. To me, that's more just kind of. I feel it's the most authentic part of me is like. Like my son is such a big deal in my life.

[Justin Andrews]

You like doing it very transparent.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right, Right. And so. But I totally get where Sal's very protective of that and he's like, it's.

[Sal Destefano]

Just a difference in personality.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm. I'm like. And I understand that when it comes.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm the meat between.

[Sal Destefano]

Anyways. Delicious.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. What I was gonna say it's funny because I think that people listen to us. Like it's different because they actually know us.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not like we're these people doing an act or.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, I'm not like out there juggling fire or whatever. Dude. I'm not like trying to really hard to get your attention. Like you're. You're finding me because you're growth minded and you're relate to You. You're pursuing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You relate to me on some level, my personality, because it's really who I am. And so I don't know. I don't. When I meet people and they. They spot me out, I'd actually, like, I get excited about it because I'm like, oh, cool. You like what we're doing? You know, it's helped you in some ways usually.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, it used to be so weird. Roxann. Early days, when we would meet fans, we'd hang out with them, you know, for a little bit, and they'd say, you guys are just like. You sound. The podcast, you guys are all tripped them out. It was weird for us because I remember being like, what do they mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? I'm authentic. Just what else would I be? And then we would meet and interview influencers and stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd be like, oh, yeah, okay, I see.

[Sal Destefano]

Because we turn the mics on and they become someone else, and the mics would turn off and they would be someone else. Like, that's what they mean.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[Sal Destefano]

It just felt so strange to hear that because I'm like, what else would I do?

[Roxanne Safai]

I've heard that as well. And then in my b past career, working with, you know, I mean, I. All kinds of celebrities. Right. So I used to do, you know, the red carpet, the os, Makeup. Right.

[Sal Destefano]

For.

[Roxanne Safai]

For everything. Magazine covers. So I've seen. I've seen it, and I don't have that gene, and I'm so grateful for this that, like, I've never given a shit about celebrities. With all due respect to everyone's career and your talents and you're great, but I don't care. Care meaning. I don't pedestal anybody. I can have respect for your craft, for what you've accomplished, but it. There's no hierarchy. I don't have that way about.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you think that's because of your exposure or where you think you were that way before?

[Roxanne Safai]

No, I think it's. I. It's how I.

[Adam Schaefer]

You were before.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I'm the same way, too. But I think a lot of it has to do with my exposure, so. Yeah. Yeah. My wife and I both have been around a lot of famous professional athletes, people like that, and I've seen enough to. And behind the scenes that. How effed up they all are and like. And how much they suck at other parts of their life.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That it's like, oh, they're just hyper good at this one thing. But I don't Admire anything else.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so I had enough exposure to that that it doesn't. I don't get starstruck. I don't get excited. I don't think anything. I'm like, oh, they're really cool.

[Roxanne Safai]

It's great.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can, I can separate that. But that's because of my exposure, not because I had this innate.

[Roxanne Safai]

Like, you don't think you have, maybe. Because here's what I want to ask you just on that.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Roxanne Safai]

Because we don't have. There's. There's similarities in our upbringing. Not fully, but, you know, my earliest years, lots of, you know, domestic violence in the house. Like, hyper vigilant. I'm a second out of five second old, so older sister, I'm the second sister. And then my brother's trail behind me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Roxanne Safai]

So I'm their older sister.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

And all of my siblings are as fucking real as it gets. Like, authenticity is just a through line in my family. There's something about, I think, growing up in an environment too, in those earliest years where, I don't know, you know, you grew up in a house of violence, where shit's like, you just don't know. It's. I don't know. I think it kind of.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, there's, there's good books on this.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

The ability for you to read. I. You're, you're. You're probably right. Like, I have ability to read people.

[Roxanne Safai]

Really well, that part.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah, really well.

[Sal Destefano]

You had to learn it as a kid.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can, I can meet somebody famous or not famous in a very short period of time and like sniff out stuff like that.

[Roxanne Safai]

It's like animal instinct. You can just read it really quickly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So that's a fair analysis.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

I mean, you still have to choose, I think maybe. Or this can go into a whole philosophical, I can. Rabbit hole. But, you know, you still maybe have to decide if you're going to, you know, value someone's status or not. Even if you're reading them to be authentic or not. But I don't know. I think there was never anything glamorous or over special about, you know, even though if you're somebody, you've done great things, you're in the public, but that doesn't mean you're better than anybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, definitely not.

[Roxanne Safai]

And that's. And I'm grateful to have that gene. And I feel that you guys operate very much in that same. Yeah. Justin's like.

[Doug]

No.

[Roxanne Safai]

And it's. And it's. And again, then this goes back to something I was saying. At the start that I think is so important is, you know, because you've really just been who the fuck. And I don't mean to just it like I'm putting it down. In fact, I think, I think what you're doing is actually so fucking important because I think that more people need to see realness, you know, need to also register this, this part that you can actually build a kick ass, I like to call it delicious life. Like a life where you're truly thriving on, on all different levels. You know, your relationships, your business, financially fucking health, like, and you're being yourself. You don't have to juggle fire.

[Justin Andrews]

Terrible analogy.

[Roxanne Safai]

You know, you don't, you don't have to do. You don't have to do it. You don't have to do it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think I want to see you do it though.

[Sal Destefano]

He can. I know, I believe, I think to put it differently, you will not have a truly successful life unless you're authentic.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right. So.

[Sal Destefano]

So having money, fame, things, relationships based on a lie is hell yeah. And so I, I like to communicate that to the younger generations. We have younger people that listen to us, especially fitness people. And the fitness space is very easy to be fake. And I, I try to communicate that to kids. It's like, first off, 99.999% of you will never accomplish a level of fame and money that you're worshiping. But even if you do, and it's based on a lie, you've now entered hell yeah. Because now you're getting adoration for something that you're not. You're working and making money doing something that you don't feel a deep sense of purpose behind, which is very hard to break free from. It's easy to break free from something that you're doing that's not giving you something worldly that also doesn't have purpose. You're like, ah, what's the point? But imagine making millions of dollars, bullshitting.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Now you're like, what do I do? I gotta give up all this money to be authentic. And so you're in this kind of weird, twisted space that becomes more and more hellish.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So it's a myth. It's the same myth. I like to use fitness because great analogies in fitness, it's like you can't hate yourself into better health because hating yourself is unhealthy. Right. So you can't be successful in the truest sense with real life satisfaction without being authentic. Even if you are the point 1% that makes the money and the fame from doing so, you've put yourself in a very bad place, by the way, the evidence is there. I'm not just saying this philosophically. Look at the addiction rate, suicide rate of celebrities, people who have access to all the things that we think are great. All the money and the sex and the drugs and the pleasure and the fame. And they're. They're terrible. They're doing terribly. It's all public, so we know. But they're doing very poorly. So it's a myth. Those are myth.

[Adam Schaefer]

Those are more of those values that. That probably back to your original start of this conversation that probably connected all of us because we all were thought this way before we. Yeah, before we all got together. We had all arrived at that place in our lives. And so that's a pretty tight thing to be bonded at.

[Roxanne Safai]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that helps with your collective consciousness theory. I think that's important.

[Sal Destefano]

Aligned.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, very aligned.

[Roxanne Safai]

Alignment.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And that for sure. So it's crazy what I.

[Roxanne Safai]

So this is a fun thing that I did recently where I was calculating. How many lives have I lived so far in my 47 years? I met 10. So you can read the book when it comes out. But in the span of your 10. But you said almost 11 years. Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

So it'll be 11.

[Roxanne Safai]

It'll be 11. Okay. So in your 11 years together, how many lives have you lived? So essentially, like how. With the core of who you are staying true. But your identities have expanded, they have evolved, they've shifted. Right. They've had to. To be where you are now.

[Sal Destefano]

Definite.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I feel like two within this tenure. Yeah, I feel like I've lived two lives in this tenure. 11 years. Wouldn't you. I feel like you have to. Will you?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably about two.

[Sal Destefano]

I could get. I mean, I could be specific.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you're obvious. Yeah, you're obvious because you were atheist. Atheist.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, obviously you became a father.

[Adam Schaefer]

I became a father. Yeah. That's exactly what I went. I was.

[Sal Destefano]

I.

[Adam Schaefer]

When we started this, I was saying things like, I may never have a kid to. And I'm on the complete opposite. So that's why I say that two lives in this 11 years.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say, you know, one of the big. One of the big myths. I would say that the world sells you. That I believed, is that your identity is tied up in what you do, your accomplishments, how you look, the people that you are attracted to, whatever. Like, that's your identity. And so you go through life constantly shifting that in Search of what your identity is. But to give you an example, let's say. Let's say you're famous because you're a great singer. So that's your identity. I'm this wonderful singer. And then you have an accident, you lose your voice. Who am I? Yeah, who am I now? Or your identity is in your beauty and then you get older. Or your identity is in your business and then you retire. Or your identity is in your children and then they grow up and now you're at home without your kids. And so for me now, I mean, what I've realized now, which I think is true, is it's not about who I am, it's about whose I am, who do I belong to. So my identity now is in Christ. And so he determines who I am, not me. And that is very. You talked about freedom earlier. That's very freeing. And so wherever I go, I know who I belong to. And does that mean, of course I'm going to grow and change? That's the process. But it's very difficult without that because otherwise it becomes this searching and this constant searching. And I think eventually it reaches a fervor where you're grabbing, grabbing, grabbing, and then time runs out and it's like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, so is that two or three lives in 11 years?

[Sal Destefano]

That would be two. One before, one after.

[Adam Schaefer]

Long ass answer. Was that two or three? I don't know, Granular. There was a nine. You know what I'm saying? How was that? How many is that?

[Roxanne Safai]

Right? Well, you came in just freshly divorced.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right. So you still think it's two?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Okay, cool.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I mean, I could, I could. Are you kidding me? I could give you a list of 15.

[Roxanne Safai]

Wait, what is it?

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, I don't know, like, you know, general manager, fitness guy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, no, no, no. I mean, like in this 11 years, just in our 11 years. I mean, that's because of course I could think of a ton more, you know, like in. In the. Our window together.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I was a. I would have.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would have.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I would have never. I would have never got married again. That's. What if you asked me that after my divorce. Never.

[Adam Schaefer]

You said it.

[Sal Destefano]

I would have never again. Definitely had more kids. Never put myself in that situation where I could lose, you know, being with them, you know, all the time, like never again. So that was a massive shift. You kidding me? The fear that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you may have had like four brothers.

[Justin Andrews]

Might have.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you might have, like four. I might have, like, married, divorced. I'm not gonna ever have kids again. Married kids. Atheist. Yeah. Maybe he's like six. He's like six, I think. Justin, you're like, you and I, too. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Unless you count heavy metal and, like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. What would. What would divide your two?

[Justin Andrews]

I guess it's more of, like, a confidence of being myself. Oh, so it's more like. I guess it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You do have a lot more swag now.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, definitely a lot of swag.

[Sal Destefano]

You were still hot back then.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I extracted that from you.

[Sal Destefano]

I'll stop.

[Justin Andrews]

So it just. Yeah, I became part of you guys. But, yeah, I. I think. I think for me, it's just been, you know, trying to figure out how to not project myself in terms of how I. I thought too much about how it was being received, like, and how, like, I could filter my words and how I could sound.

[Adam Schaefer]

And.

[Justin Andrews]

And so it was just a very. Like, I was conscious of everything I was doing as opposed to, like, just being in the moment and, like, letting it out. And. And so I think it's. One is reserved and one is, like, less reserved.

[Adam Schaefer]

I totally can see that now. What you got me thinking is for sure. Do you remember when you settled into that version of you.

[Justin Andrews]

You.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sorry, I'm hijacking your head. Jump in here on your podcast. When did you. Because I. I think I have it, and I want. I don't want to say three weeks.

[Sal Destefano]

Ago.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I credit. I totally feel like there was a major transition of that version of you where you were, like, overthinking what you said. If I said enough, do I need, like. And then there became, like, the chill Justin. Like, like, yeah, I might just sit. Not talk this whole podcast if I don't feel like it or no.

[Sal Destefano]

Or all.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Or else. And so you did settle into that. When do you. Did you remember when you felt that transition?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think I. I put a lot more emphasis on. And I told you guys when I was going through that process of, like, when we had. What's it called? The. The guy that used to do, like, improv.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's totally what I thought. Okay, so that's. That's what I thought it was.

[Justin Andrews]

You think that was the catalyst for it? But, yeah, because I was. I was thinking, you know, because I would throw a little weedy clones in there whenever you guys would go on your rants. And. And, you know, I was getting a lot of feedback that, like, there was some humor there. And so I was like, maybe I gotta work on that. Like, I don't know, maybe I should be the funny guy. Or, you know, I don't know, like I've never done it before. Like, it's just like, I'm not a stand up comedian or anything. And like, it's not pre planned. This is just like what comes out.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so I was like, maybe I could work on that and, and figure out how to work on that specifically. So it's a skill. And. And then I was like this. But yeah, that started the catalyst for me to realize, well, I could just say whatever, I'm gonna be okay. Because, like, what comes out, like, maybe it's not perfect, but it wasn't. It wasn't horrible. It wasn't like. Like I felt later on, like I totally regretted that. You know, like, that's. That's the thoughts that would go through my head. I would.

[Sal Destefano]

Is.

[Justin Andrews]

I would say things on the podcast. It was just like, oh, my God, like somebody's gonna hear this and be like, what the.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that's when I felt it. I didn't want to say that first because I wanted to hear what you had to say, but that's when I.

[Sal Destefano]

That was huge.

[Adam Schaefer]

I thought. I felt that. I thought. And I remember commenting to Katrina, I'm like, oh, man. Justin is just like when we went through that whole process for. For almost a year. Huh? We have a year.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Maybe more for a year. We used to have an improv coach.

[Roxanne Safai]

It's amazing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Every Monday, podcasting, that was how we would want. And it was. And it was so out of the box.

[Sal Destefano]

Improv games.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, there were all these games we.

[Sal Destefano]

Our.

[Adam Schaefer]

Every Friday now it's Friday, right?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

We do it for our staff, so our trainers. Our trainers all do it just for communication skills. It just would. It's so helpful. Yeah, it was. It would just warm us up, loosen us up like that. And it really did help, I thought. And I really noticed a difference on. I think it helped everybody, but I. That's when I felt like you fully settled in on and so.

[Roxanne Safai]

So you just basically let yourself out. It wasn't necessarily, you know, adding anything as much as it was allowing.

[Justin Andrews]

Justin, I don't think I really, like, adopted a new identity.

[Roxanne Safai]

No. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because like, I was.

[Roxanne Safai]

Maybe you just let out more.

[Adam Schaefer]

Settle in.

[Sal Destefano]

You took off the brakes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

There you go. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And two. Yeah. It's definitely built a lot more confidence and, and gave me that ability to articulate and to communicate better. And just being around them even helped that quite a bit. Just because it's like, it's. It's that pressure cooking.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Me just being here has been such a learning experience for me. So. But yeah, I honestly, I was a father before kind of coming in, so that was interesting. And you know, and so I actually related with Sal a lot with that. But then like, you know, Adam became a father and so it was like a weird. Everything kind of shifted and molded and then, you know, and then we all kind of were spiritually aligned now. And I'm like, oh, what's happening? We're becoming Voltron.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is getting weird. No, he didn't.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yes, he fucking did. He just went Voltron.

[Adam Schaefer]

That was such a great.

[Roxanne Safai]

Oh, it's the best. That was a fucking great cartoon Bat and Thundercats.

[Justin Andrews]

I stopped with Voltron.

[Sal Destefano]

I love it.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, what is curious about. So, as a team and individually, what's stretching you guys right now?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, having. Having a staff of over 30 something people and leading something this big.

[Sal Destefano]

We had a big. We've had a big pivot in the company.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, huge pivot.

[Roxanne Safai]

Ye.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, huge pivot.

[Roxanne Safai]

Because you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, because, well, business wise, we're at a real. So here I believe, or we believe that we are in a crucial time where the consumer is going to seek one of two things. Either you're going to go in the direction of all the things that AI has to offer, which is incredible and very accurate and good for a lot of things, and going to be cheap and all these things. Things. And then there's going to be people that value high touch and human humans to like, like, I know it's more expensive, I know it's more effort. That's okay. I value human connection and value that so much. And it was very clear what was going on in our business because we have digital products that we sell that do not require human at all. And watching it plateau and then start to die and realize that AI is going to really start to consume that side which was our baby, what we built this business off of. And so it was, we have to get back in touch with our people and actually making human connection again. And we have to do that through. And since we're so big we can't possibly do that ourselves, we have to do that through trainer personal trainers and getting back to actually training people one on one and meeting with them and like that. Human connection.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so we saw that last year and we made the massive pivot to focus in that direction. And so we've been scaling that and the bottleneck to that is bodies. So the only reason why that's not 3x the size already is because we need about 50 trainers to support the volume that we can handle. And we're at 17 right now, so that's.

[Sal Destefano]

And we're. And we. We want. Really good.

[Roxanne Safai]

Of course.

[Sal Destefano]

So we're not gonna try going slow. Out of process. Yeah, we want to, really. And that's. You know, there's another reason, too. Adam's like, that business was there for us.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But we were all trainers. Remember, we were coaches trainers for a long time before we started this. So we have a lot of respect for what good trainers do. I mean, a good trainer will change your life. Yeah, there's a lot of trainers out there, but good trainers. There's not a ton of. And so it's like, if we offer this service, it has to meet that standard.

[Roxanne Safai]

Sure.

[Sal Destefano]

And so we just weren't ready to, you know, put the time and effort.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's. Right to her point. Right. That's like. We knew that that would stretch our capacity. Like selling digital programs.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You write a program, put it together like it's evergreen.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

People are buying every day by the hundreds. We don't have to think about it. I mean, we have a customer service team that handles people that call in. Yeah. It was a very rad business, you know, very cool. But we knew the. The monster we were setting out, building if we were gonna. If we're gonna get back to having people and trainers and, like, that's. And we stayed away from it for so long because we knew how much it would stretch our capacity to do it.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But it became very clear that it was either or. And none of us want to go all AI direction.

[Sal Destefano]

It's been so rewarding, though.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. It's been a culture that.

[Sal Destefano]

This is just awesome. Oh, my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, we used to come to work, and it used to be just that, the four of us, you know, quiet. And for years. For years, it was like that. So the energy in here is nuts. Just crazy how much super cool vibe.

[Sal Destefano]

Culture that's building and just the. The. You talk about purpose.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's strengthened even more now because the impact that these coaches and trainers are having, because I'll hop on some of these coaching calls. Show my face. Hey, what's happening? How's. And I hear what they're doing, and it's just. Wow. Wow.

[Roxanne Safai]

It's amazing.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, it's.

[Adam Schaefer]

I get the chills, but it's definitely. I would say, wouldn't you guys all agree that, I mean, you're working harder more and stretching your capacity more today.

[Sal Destefano]

Than you feel like it, though, because it feels.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, yeah, it's rewarding, but, I mean, the level of work and effort. So we're definitely being stretched right now. That's definitely.

[Justin Andrews]

We're running.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, for sure. More. More than we have in a long. A long time. We. We were. We were cruising for a while there. There was a couple years there where business was kind of on a rock. Yeah, we were. We got fat and happy.

[Justin Andrews]

A little bit of chunky.

[Roxanne Safai]

But you guys value challenge, no, Absolutely. Like, you guys. Yeah. It's fuel, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, it shook. I mean, we. We fired our marketing company. We let go. Like, it woke. We needed it. We all look back and we go, like, the best thing that happened to us was the challenge and. And being. Because it forced us.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

To grow. It forced us to stretch our capacity.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And we were. We like that.

[Sal Destefano]

We were.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's like. And. And I know I might come. We all know that. You know, we'll look back five or ten years from now, and, like, in the fire is the best part.

[Sal Destefano]

Always.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is the. When you're in it and the journey, like, once we. We win again and we're on the top and whatever, and we build that whole side. Like, what. That's cool and all, but it's like, this is the good time. The good time is when, like, the uncertainty, the totally. The, you know, like, the hustle, the. Like, that's. That's the rewarding part. And remembering that. Right. Trying to be present and go, like, even as. As stressful as it can feel sometimes because you have this responsibility of so many people and. And the weight of that.

[Sal Destefano]

That.

[Adam Schaefer]

But then also remembering, like, yeah, that's why I get up every day. Yeah, that's cool. That, like, there's a lot. There's a lot riding on the line. I love that. It's this part that I love.

[Roxanne Safai]

You have to have a lot of emotional discipline, right?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

And. And that really relates back to. To mastery. Mastery of self.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right? To not let your emotions just have their way with you. To really. You know.

[Adam Schaefer]

You ever hear me tell the story of Katrina? The call that. That I had. That gave her on the. In the truck on the ride home when I was bitching about Sal, I.

[Sal Destefano]

Knew it was about.

[Roxanne Safai]

Wait, I've heard stories. Wait, can you say it again? Because I've heard the story.

[Sal Destefano]

Never said it was me. I knew it was me.

[Adam Schaefer]

AKA that's funny. If I never slipped out that time. Whoops.

[Sal Destefano]

We got.

[Adam Schaefer]

Over here a little too Much. Yeah. So this was like, we were at this studio. So it was. It was definitely within this time frame. So it had to been about six or seven years ago, somewhere around there. And typical day, I'm frustrated with Sal. I'm. I'm cussing him out as I'm driving home. I wish he would do this.

[Sal Destefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

And like, I'm venting right about. And there's other things going on. It wasn't obviously just Sal. There's a lot of stuff that we had a lot of pressure going on at that time. And I'm. And I'm venting to her, and I've got her on my truck speakerphone phone, and I'm probably ranting for like seven minutes straight or something like that. And then I finally, like, catch a breath, you know, and then she's. And it's like silent. And I'm like, hello, are you there? She's like, yeah, are you done? And I'm like, well, yeah, what do you have to say? She's like, long pause. Would you have it any other way? And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm like, damn, you're right.

[Doug]

Like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, if it was easy, it would be no fun. If I wasn't frustrated and trying to figure it out and anybody could do it, like, it would be lame.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I had this. I did. I had this. I had. It gave me a whole another level of appreciation for my partners, the struggle, all that. It's like, dude, of course I don't want it to be easy. There's no. There'd be. No. There'd be nothing rewarding at the other side if I didn't have those moments.

[Sal Destefano]

Of like, oh, this is hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or I'm frustrated. It's like. And she's like, would you want it any other way? And I'm like, God damn, you're right.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Roxanne Safai]

She's badass.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, she is badass. That.

[Roxanne Safai]

That's. I love those bottom line moments.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Because they just settle everything.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, totally.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally. Super pivotal moment in the. For me and my journey and walk through all this stuff like that. Like, because I. There's obviously been many of other times for many other reasons where I felt like that. And I always draw back to that moment of like, she's right. Like. Like, this is the part that I like.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm saying, if it was so easy that everything fell in line and everything, Every decision I made worked out perfect, how boring would that be?

[Roxanne Safai]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so I always draw back to that in any Any moment that we're having of just like, hey, would I want it either way? No. Hell no. Like the fact that it's hard is what I love.

[Roxanne Safai]

I relate to that deeply. You know, a lot of people. I've said this before on the podcast a lot, but when we think about uncertainty, and I get this because I especially in my 20s, it's like you want so much control. You're trying to create certainty out here in uncertainty. That's what we think we want. Right? Until you start to understand it's actually not. First of all, you don't want certainty out here. That's boring. That's like the Twilight zone. That's some fucking weird ass shit where basically there's no magic, there's no possibilities, there's no miracles or fucking any of that. Right. What we want is certainty in here. Certainty in self. That no matter what I'm going to navigate out here in this uncertain terrain of life, that I will, I'll be okay. I'll find a way to thrive. Fuck. I'll get better every time. Like take punches, get up. You're better for it, right? It's it. That's the part that I think if, if more people can register. Oh, I'm not really. It's not about out here. I want the open playground of possibilities. But what do I need to do to feel more certain? And certain doesn't mean I have all the answers. It really just means I trust myself. Right. And I have. I. I will do. For me, it's always about the heart. What my heart is directing me towards. I will have the courage to take that step forward into uncertainty, knowing that no matter what I'm gonna face, it's gonna be good for me. So long as I'm looking at it that way.

[Sal Destefano]

It's also a myth that there's certainty anyway.

[Adam Schaefer]

You don't know.

[Sal Destefano]

So it's also just. You get caught in that game of trying to control the outcome, you're gonna hit a wall. Because there is no certainty anyway. No. So it's not a choice of your way's better than the other way. There is no other way.

[Roxanne Safai]

There is no other way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Otherwise you get stuck in this think.

[Roxanne Safai]

All the time and then you're fear based.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh absolutely fear based. And you're clinging on to every single. You can create probabilities.

[Roxanne Safai]

Sure.

[Sal Destefano]

There's no certainty. You don't know.

[Roxanne Safai]

So what limiting belief slash fear. Each of you what, what have what's been maybe the biggest one or one that comes top of mind when I even say that to you in the last 10 years that you've had to rescript. Let go of. Evolve to be the men that you are in this moment.

[Sal Destefano]

That's one of the.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is one of our problems. We're deliriously confident.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That'S definitely another one of those. Like all of us are unbelievably. I mean, just have this very strong self belief. That's one of the. Probably one of the most attractive qualities that I found in all these guys is that we're gonna suck. This is gonna be hard. We're not going to be good at it. So what? Yeah, like, everybody. Everybody in here has made peace. I. And I feel this way at almost any crossroad that they've had in their life with the worst outcome. Well, what happens if this thing doesn't work out? Or what happens if we like, so then we'll do this or we'll figure it out. Like, I'll be alive still. We'll be fine. Everybody has that in here. Everybody has that. And so at least I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn and everything.

[Sal Destefano]

No, you're right.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just don't. Like, I can't think of a thing where I have. I don't know.

[Sal Destefano]

There's also. There's this kind of like. Like, I mean, I could even create a. A, A scenario where everything blows up. But I'm with these guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I mean.

[Sal Destefano]

And we're walking through fire. Yeah. And that's like strip.

[Adam Schaefer]

Strip it all from me. Like.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

We used to say that. We used to say like, as long.

[Justin Andrews]

As it's in slow motion.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah. Just holding hands. Badass. Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, you know what comes to mind through my heart when I hear you say that? Is honor. There's a lot of honor in this room. You guys. Really. You carry a lot of honor independently, but especially also for each other.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

More that Navy SEAL stuff.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, There you go. Yeah. No, I fucking. I get it.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I love that.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah. It's palpable for me. Like I feel it deeply and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I. Well, wait, actually. Limiting beliefs. You're not off the hook.

[Adam Schaefer]

Can't steal out of that.

[Sal Destefano]

I know. I know that.

[Roxanne Safai]

Or fear something that you had to read.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what could be a limiting belief? Probably less so now, but now I'm at least aware that it's there. Is that I could do anything I put my mind to. I can make anything happen. Nothing can Stop me. That's a lie. That's a myth. That's a myth that a lot of us believe. The truth is I don't know everything. The truth is I can't do everything. And the truth is that I'm going to need to relax. Eye on other people. And so.

[Adam Schaefer]

But the final truth of that is that I'll be okay.

[Sal Destefano]

I'll be okay. Yeah. I'm gonna be okay. Yeah. But, but. But if, you know that that was. It would have been a limited belief before for sure that I can do anything, which sounds so awesome and empowering until you're met with the reality that. That life is gonna throw at you that you can't.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's. It's. Something's gonna happen and you're gonna be in a place where it's like, I can't do it everything on my own.

[Roxanne Safai]

Right. So humility really comes in huge and allows you to be more like, you can kind of surrender more, which. That gives you more freedom.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

I love. I love that word humble with us too, because I think that we have this weird ultra confident, cocky, yet humble at the same time personalities. Everybody does. Everybody in here has this, like.

[Roxanne Safai]

I totally agree. It's very felt and it's been the whole way through. As you know, earlier.

[Adam Schaefer]

Some people misread it sometimes, but like, someone like. Yeah, but I think.

[Roxanne Safai]

But you know what? I think that has a lot to do with the person reading.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Roxanne Safai]

You know what I mean?

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah. I think there's something to be said about. I just put something up about this the other day. Like, have conviction in what you're saying. You can still be humble. You can still have humility. And in fact, I think that sometimes people are like, oh, I'm just trying to be humble. It's like, no, you're just not sure about what you're. You're actually hiding right now. You're using the idea of humility, but it's not true. And that's okay. Like, no judgment, but like, the more.

[Sal Destefano]

Honest confidence would say, I. I'm scared right now. But here's what I think.

[Roxanne Safai]

There you go.

[Sal Destefano]

That's. That's humble confidence.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Not saying anything is just fear.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the. There's a difference there. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I think. Well, that kind of goes in line with what I was going to say is. Is really like this entire. Their business is like, something I feared. So if you're gonna go that direction, like, for me, I seek that out, though, and that's been my M.O. since athletics since I was a kid, because I know on the other side of that what that looks like, and I grow and I become stronger and it. It helps me. Builds my confidence and it. It just builds me up as a person. And two, I know I'm going to be okay because of the discipline and the practices that it takes to become better and to become good and to then further, you know, get into the point where you could consider yourself really good at something. Yeah, there's a process to that. And so I always knew that in different directions. You know, I wasn't real excited about the prospect of talking all the time initially, but. But over the years, it just. It became more fun. It became more natural. It. You know, all these things, like, it started to get. It resonated more with me, but it. Initially it was like fear, panic, you know, all these feelings.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But I know that more I chip away at it. I was very confident it would get better.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's one of my favorite quotes. On the other side of fear resides successful. I mean, it's so true. You're. You've lived your life that way. I feel the same way too. Like, run towards it. Another thing that's connected us. Yeah. Obviously, we continue to unpack all these things that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, very similar. Yeah, you guys have that same trait for sure.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, what do you. What's in. In your journey so far? Has there been moments where you weren't sure were things like maybe there was a, I don't know, rejection or things that came in. Into your experience as you're on this journey and you're building that shook your confidence.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want to give you something, but it's really hard because that's part of why this works so well. I do.

[Sal Destefano]

There are definitely moments where we questioned if we're making the right decision or going the right direction.

[Roxanne Safai]

Okay, well, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Not shaking our confidence.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Totally not.

[Roxanne Safai]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Where it's like, oh, because even, like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Even the story you brought up with the guy, like. Right. Like, we were up very uncertain about that. There was disagreement, argument around. Should we. Should we not s. Pushing back, me going, come on, we need to figure it. Let's just try this. Like, so there's. There was uncertainty there, but again, also part. Part of that discussion was making peace with the worst outcome. And we'll solve it. You know, it's like, hey, if it does and it's wrong, we'll feel it, we'll fire the guy, we'll move on or it'll work. It'll Be good and we'll know it. And so let's just go. Let's just agree. And so that's one of the things that works really well is that we. When we disagree on stuff or there's uncertainty and maybe one guy steps forward and feels he has more confidence in an area. The other three submit and go. Like, okay, like, you seem to. You make the best argument. You feel right about it. The key to that is that when that guy makes the wrong decision for the business and it fails.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

We all own it.

[Sal Destefano]

It's all. We all.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not. I knew you were wrong. We should have done. It's like, it does. No, nobody thinks that way. Nobody thinks that way. We.

[Sal Destefano]

We celebrating success.

[Justin Andrews]

Porn ads are a bad idea.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Somebody comes up with a great idea and then it crushes. It's real easy to be like, we made a great decision.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sal takes credit for all this. Ideas for sure. Right, Justin? I came up with, like, that was such a good idea I had, I think, Justin, collective idea. This is like, you know, now what we do is like one of our great ideas. We go like, hey, Sal is a great idea.

[Roxanne Safai]

You know, it's so funny. And I just want to. As a woman, this is important to say. You guys are really. This. You really have a beautiful balance, harmonization of your masculine and your feminine energy. You really do, because you guys are boys. I see it like, even in that moment, it's Sal. But there's. There's. There's such a strength to you guys. It's not postured. It just is. You guys just like, again, I can go super poetic because that's just me, but it's like your spines are really tall and strong, but you're not sticking your chest out. You don't have anything to fucking prove. You're just. You just are. And even the love that is so felt for you, for each other, I mean that to me, I just equate it to like, you guys are directional. You're logical. You have your, you know, sarcasm. This is like, you're very masculine. But then there's that empathy, that compassion, that selflessness that, you know, the creativity together, the feminine. And it's just. It's so beautiful. Especially in these days. There's a lot of talk about masculine energy and toxic masculine and all that. And I'm like, you know what? Just like, here, just have a look. Okay. I'm saying, it's my show. Here's three men who just. You don't have to say anything. You don't do anything. You're just, you just, you embody it and, and I really just want to recognize all of you for that. It's beautiful. You guys are fathers. I think you guys are bringing the whole fucking cool dad the thing like back into. Yeah. Back into consciousness into. Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, amongst all of the, I mean, radical things that you, you've shifted so many lives. You. Not shifted, shifting. It's, it's happening still. And then on top of that, you know, just what I just shared. I think you're a beautiful example of men who don't have anything to, to prove. You're driven, you're very heart centric and it's just, it's, it's, it's needed. I think that this, this is, this is the shit that should be on the front pages and highlighted and going viral. This stuff right here.

[Adam Schaefer]

Talking about the toxic max masculinity thing. Really curious, from a woman's perspective, do you think that that is because the, the, that they lack the feminine energy side? That's where that comes from. So what is it about. Yeah, that doesn't come off toxic.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Sitting in this room with three very, four very alpha dudes. Right? It doesn't come off that way.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it, is that what it is, you think? And then when it does come off as toxic, is it because it lacks that feminine energy?

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, I think there's just suppression of sort of the principles and the, the, the, the, the aspect of the feminine in men that carry that trait. Like, for example, you, you're. And I speak about all of you. There's. You don't need to posture your strength. And that in of itself shows a softness about you. But softness is not weakness. Right. There's nothing delicate about any of you. Right. But I sense and feel your softness because it's alive within all of you. You have no problem with that part of you, and that makes you very strong without trying. And that's just one example. Right.

[Sal Destefano]

One of the best. You mentioned something about fatherhood. We all will remark on this. The best compliment we ever get ever is when a caller calls in young man, and he says, I didn't want to be a dad and now I want to be a dad.

[Roxanne Safai]

Dad. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

All of us when we hear that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

Because I think men and women have been lied to for a long time. But men, I think for a long time have really bought into a terrible lie, which is that fatherhood is a burden. A burden dedicating yourself to one Woman boring ball and chain. That responsibility is terrible. Freedom is no responsibility. Go be the rich, rich Jack dude that bangs a bunch of chicks and never has kids and doesn't want to have any responsibility. Like a terrible, terrible lie. And if that's, like, if that's what you want to do, then, you know, everybody do your own thing. But I think a lot of young men for a long time bought into that.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And that's toxic masculinity. It's not real. It's projected fake media masculinity. It's over compensation.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, so. And I think you want to develop good masculinity. I'll tell you what, there's two things. Well, personally, we trained a lot of people people, and most of our clients were women. So if you want to be an effective trainer, you have to figure out how to work with clients very well. And if most of your clients are women, you got to figure out how to communicate, connect and understand and listen and, you know, and all that with women. The second thing is men need to have, they need to be around other good men. We need that.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

A man without good men around him is undisciplined and wild. What I mean by that, there's no, there's no containment, no structure to his strength and his aggressiveness and his drive that we, we can have inside of us. But when you're around good men that you respect, these guys can check me like nobody else.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And I love it. Yeah, I appreciate it. And so men need that. And a lot of men are isolated. A lot of men don't have that. A lot of young men don't have that. They're either in their rooms on video games or stuck on, on pornography. They're not out there talking to women. They're not out there trying to build themselves, and they're not with other men that are doing that. And you get that in teams. Sometimes sports teams will do that. You'll hear. Sometimes young men will tell you, like, a really transformational time of their lives when they got on that football team. The great coach and the team built it because you got to be around other guys that, you know, iron sharpens iron. That's an old saying. So you got to be around other guys that'll do that. And that's oftentimes when you meet a man like that, it's because he's been around other men like that.

[Roxanne Safai]

I, I, I feel that it's a perfect segue to a question. It's kind of like a see me moment. So I'd love for each of you to go say about each other. So I'll give an example. Justin, I would love for you to highlight something about both Sal and Adam that maybe.

[Adam Schaefer]

That maybe that it.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, good. Right in time for your 10 year.

[Justin Andrews]

I get to go first.

[Roxanne Safai]

No, highlight something about them that maybe that they don't. They under. Recognize themselves for. Like, something really wonderful about them that maybe they don't give themselves enough credit for.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's really funny that we're kind of going this direction because we. We have been working on a video for our 10 year, and am I.

[Roxanne Safai]

Still in it for me?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well.

[Roxanne Safai]

Oh, really?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's very similar question.

[Adam Schaefer]

So none of us have heard.

[Justin Andrews]

None of us have heard.

[Adam Schaefer]

Spoiler alert.

[Justin Andrews]

It'll be a spoiler alert.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're gonna get it out before. Yeah, but we all have said it, so.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of the same. You guys were worried I wasn't gonna say anything nice? Of course I said something nice, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not the most sentimental guy, but I can be, you know, at times. But no, I. What I said was just a few things. Like, it s. For me, it's funny because we, like. He knows, like, in the beginning, like, I'm very skeptical person, new people, like, especially if, like, somebody's charismatic. I think for me, it's like, there's a little bit of reserve to really, you know, get to know that person further. But he just. Just. I mean, he won me over pretty much immediately after that. Just in his character and his integrity and just his care and his passion. I think for me, one of the biggest things is just, like, how passionate he is. Like, he is just such a. A passionate person, and that translates to so many different things, and it's family, you know, and it's like this caring, compassionate Sal that, like, not a lot of people see. I mean, you get it a lot on the. On the podcast. You can see him talk to people, you know, that call in and. Yeah, it's just like, it's. Again, he's a very masculine guy, and he's, like, jacked and he's huge guy and all this. And then he's like, also, like, he could be like my mom, you know, like, sometimes, like, he's just like, oh, he's really concerned. He, like, actually cares, you know.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And you don't get that from a lot of guys. So I think that's like, you know, a really awesome trade of his. I think for Adam I. I kind of had a couple things. I've known him a bit longer, but the main thing with. With Adam is just his unfiltered truth. Like, he is, like, the most honest person I know. Like, you know, some people might, you know, take that the wrong way. Might be abrasive. Might, like, never been abrasive to me. Like, tell me exactly what it is. Like, I can deal with it. And that's just how we start our relationship. It was just, like, very honest. And it just. He's never changed, and he's always. And so I know his true intention is much like. Even if he's, like, angry or, like, you know, yelling or. I know what he's trying to do.

[Adam Schaefer]

He can read between the lines.

[Justin Andrews]

I can read between. I know why, and I know, well, this is for an intent. And then I. My mind always goes. I. I know him so well that it's like, I know, like, his intent with this conversation. I know his intent with raising his voice for this person. I know his intent, you know, for doing something behind the scenes that nobody knows about. You know, Like, I know a lot of, like, anyways, there's. There's a lot there, but amounts to, I guess if I have to, like, put in one thing, it's like, the people. People don't get to see, like, how. How radically honest he really is. Like, with everybody, like, in, like, business people, it's. It's pretty remarkable. But. Yeah. So how. Do you want Doug, too? Or do you want.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, no, yeah, no, no, for Doug. Like, again, like, I. I relate a lot to Doug just because of being a solopreneur and, like, kind of, like, owning your own. Like, I. I've always been able to really manage myself really well, and, you know, by proxy to that. Like, I was able to kind of manage and lead people, but, like, I was always like, yeah, whatever, but I'm doing it. And hopefully you do this too, and you do it well. And. But really, I'm going to handle my business and. And to that degree. And, you know, Doug's just the kind of personality, like, he just.

[Sal Destefano]

Just.

[Justin Andrews]

He's on top of things. He's doing things constantly, but he's very, like, calculated with his delivery for, like, again, we kind of call him the Zen master for a reason, because he's kind of like. He'll say the right thing sometimes in the midst of, like, conflict and bring us back to, like, okay, well, let's get back on track. Like, let's move back on the Track and get and go forward. And he kind of knows how to steer us when the emotions get high. And. And. And so I. I value that a lot. His calmness and his. His presence that he brings in here. So into just, you know, him just being a very. He's. He's also, you know, very caring person. Like, very, very much so. So he thinks a lot about other people, so. I've noticed that a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well said.

[Roxanne Safai]

Awesome.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well said.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Get me choked up. I'm the most likely to try these days. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

100. 100.

[Sal Destefano]

But you'll get me if you go.

[Adam Schaefer]

So don't do that, dude. Please, God.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, man. All right, I'll start with Doug. He's. He's just. He's just a good man. Yeah, he's a really. I'm gonna go already. He's a very good man.

[Adam Schaefer]

I remember when I. Roxanne.

[Sal Destefano]

I started training him, and I remember meeting his daughter for the first time and realizing that she wasn't his biological daughter. He. But he. He talked about her and loved her in a way that I would have never guessed. And he's one of the best followers I ever met. And he. He's. He is a very. He is a very quiet leader. He does. He does it in such a gentle way. He lets us be knuckleheads. He let us be knuckleheads for a long time. And he gently steers. Steers this ship with a lot of wisdom because he knows that it's the only way to steer this ship. So, you know, that's. That's Doug. A lot of wisdom. Justin is a. Is a. Is a rock. It's very solid. He's probably the most solid person I've ever met. Also an incredible father. Very humble. He will. He doesn't. He doesn't toot his own horn ever. If he hates it when we toot his horn. And I don't think we do it enough because I think it makes him uncomfortable. So we try not to make him uncomfortable, but just. Just incredible solid integrity. And, you know, Justin's the guy that, you know, if, you know, it's a terrible example. You know, know you killed somebody. Help you. He helped you bury the body. That's a terrible example. But. But, I mean. But that's. But that's. That's just. That's just Justin and he. What. He. What he brings the. You know, people love him the most. The most. And their read is correct. They have a very accurate read on Justin. So if you love him, it's because he's, that's him. That's. He's a lovable guy, great guy, super, super loyal person. So just solid. I, I think of Justin, I think of a rock for sure. Adam's the gas of the, of the, of the operation. So he's jet fuel and drives a lot of, you know what happens here. Whether he points the direction or not, he's the gas behind the whole thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Thing.

[Sal Destefano]

He's Adam, you know, also incredibly loyal. Incredibly loyal. Like no question you have to be in the room with Adam when he's negotiating with someone. Yeah. It's so uncomfortable and, and, and, and, and brilliant at the same time. Like I'm a good, a good closer. I know I'm a good closer. But if I sit in a room with him negotiating, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. And it's really cool, really cool to be around. Very, very growth minded and incredibly resilient. So he can come across as like stubborn or whatever. But, and, but he is one of the most gross minded people I know. And he's got such a big heart that, that and he never his, his charity or how giving he is is something he doesn't ever talk about that you find out about. You'll find out about it either through a side conversation or something. And you're like, you did that. I mean like buying gifts for kids on Christmas that need gifts or supporting friends, you know, children to go through school and stuff. Like he just talk about it. So that's just, that's Adam. It's just for me to be with these guys. I can't even believe I'm here. Yeah. So it's just been, it's an incredible blessing. So, and looking back, looking forward, I'm like, I don't know why or how, but I'm just grateful to be here.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think it's such a disadvantage to go last. Dude. I'm all emotional. I wish I would have went first now, dude. So I wasn't so emotional going into this. I'll start with Doug. I, I, so we did this right. So I, and I, I probably I talked for a long time. I'm sure Dylan's like, we're gonna have to edit all of Adams because Adam went on forever about all these guys because I got so, I got so much love for all of them. They're, we're all so, so different, dude. I think that's the part that still trips me out is to, you know, we really, we really don't hang a Lot outside of here. A lot of people think that like. Like we're like best of buds and we go hang out every weekend together. We rarely ever do stuff together outside of here, but yet we are so bonded and tight in here. And so it's such a. You. Such a unique special friendship and. And bond and partnership that we have. And Doug for sure is, you know, we. We call him Master Splinter, you know, Ninja Turtle reference, you know, so he's. He is. He's. He's wise, he's unbelievably humble. He only. He could work in that position with the three of us. Any other personality would have never have worked with us. He. He allows us to be ourselves and like the guy said, yet still quietly steers. And so. And he's also. I mean, Doug early on was the guy who. Because I. My brain goes at 2, 3 in the morning. I could. I could text him and he's working to, you know, like he just quietly behind the scene manages and handles so much of the things that Sal, Justin and I do not like. So an operation does not grow to this size unless you have a man like that, that is. And he. He'll do it like he just would put his head down and ju. And not. Doesn't need to tell anybody what he's doing. Doesn't need accolades for it, doesn't talk about it, stuff like that. But I know the amount of work it takes to manage all the operations of something that runs this. This big. And I couldn't do it. I could not. There's no way I could do it without him. So I lean on him so much for the. Just Sal brought up me being the gas and kind of steering the ship. Like I couldn't do it without navigating with him. Just. It'd be impossible. So. And only his personality works with. With. With us. No. No other person I would have. He's. He just has this gift to be able to. To quietly lead like that. Justin and I go back a really long time. One of my favorite things to. To share about Justin, the many things. But like one of my favorite is like he. I remember when he used to work for me and I. And I. And I tell anybody like that. I remember telling these guys, it's like, you don't have to ever tell Justin like he up or he shouldn't have done this. Like he is so critical of himself that you just let him be and he just will go do the work and he doesn't want credit for it. He doesn't need to be the guy. He has this. He's unbelievably confident and humble, has an incredibly strong integrity and doesn't need anyone to tell him. And he'll just. I don't need to be the main guy. He can take the jokes of, oh, he's the other guy. But it doesn't work if you don't have a guy that's willing to take the bullets to do all the hard work and. And not give me emotional. Damn it, Roxanne.

[Roxanne Safai]

Sorry. Not sorry.

[Sal Destefano]

Then you go, and I'm gonna go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Stop it. I'll gather myself. Hold on. Yeah, so that's just enough. I keep talking about Justin. I'm gonna cry my ass off. But that's. I mean, there's a reason why we have a brotherhood, right? So he goes. Him and I go back almost 20 years now. So, yeah, Sal is most like me and so different than me at the same time. So we, you know, we talk about that. We clash. That's because we have very strong personalities. Right. If you listen to the podcast, you. There's a good chance if you really like me, you don't like Sal. If you like Sal, you don't. You don't like me. We tend to. Or there's obviously the fans that love everybody and appreciate the dynamic, but. But we tend to divide the audience. It's just like, you're either. You either like my style or you like Sal's style of whatever. And. But that we. So we share that. That strong. That strong personality. And I love. I love that about. And something that. I'll echo that. The guy said that is just understated about. Sal is like. He is. He's the mother of the group that he's truly. He truly is like, of the entire company. So, like, he. He is the person who will call you if something's going on in your family, and he does that with every single person in here. So he has this huge, warm heart. This is also why when I get really defensive when people think he's like, this cocky, arrogant dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Should have went last.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Don't worry.

[Justin Andrews]

Last.

[Adam Schaefer]

You guys got me all. It would have been me. I do. I get. I get really defensive when people think he's this cocky guy, and I'm like, dude, you have no idea. He's probably the most humble person and loving.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Boy, that 10 years, man.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's a. There's a. He's so talented, dude. The fact that, you know what would. Would I love and pisses me off at the same time. Is this guy has the ability to read something one time and then he could go teach it like a professor.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's, it's where my dumbass has to read it four or five times, it up six times, saying it, go back and do it, and then maybe I can somewhat present it. Sal can like go through something and like teach it as if he'd been teaching it for 10 years. It is the most, most crazy gift and to watch it every day and, and he can come to work, have stuff going on with family or a death in the family, stuff like that. And lights go on, cameras hit, and he can just, he can turn that side on. It's just, it's so impressive. It doesn't work. We don't. This, this doesn't happen without him. He's. I mean, I always think of all of us like this basketball team or whatever, and like, you know, it's a championship team that he's, he's the star player. There's no way it exists. There's no way I could possibly. I couldn't do it without any of them. But like, he, he's definitely that guy and he carries it. He, he, he takes that in a way, in such a humble way. Like he doesn't want the attention of all of us. He's the most private, wants the least amount of fame and attention from it, yet he carries the most amount of it because we send him out to talk on all the podcasts, to stand up on front of the stages, write the book to, to be that guy. And so, you know, nobody could be better at doing that. And he, he does it with humility, grace, talent. So, so cool to see. But yeah, obviously, I love all these guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Roxanne Safai]

I'm like, I want to clap. I want to cry.

[Adam Schaefer]

So mad.

[Sal Destefano]

You got me.

[Roxanne Safai]

No, that was so special. It's so, so special. You, you guys are, are absolutely extraordinary. Doug, I know you don't. Do you have a mic?

[Doug]

I have a mic. I don't have a camera, fortunately. I do not have a camera.

[Roxanne Safai]

Do you want to be Oz and just speak it?

[Doug]

I could speak from the great beyond.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm so glad you make Doug go last.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. I thought I was going to get.

[Adam Schaefer]

Out of this, but the good news.

[Doug]

Is I do not have a camera.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, all of us.

[Doug]

It's so funny because when we, we recorded for the 10 year anniversary video, I went last, I think, and I did my thing. And then afterwards, Danny, who was filming this, she said, you know, you guys said so many of the same things. So, you know, I'm just really following up with what everybody else said, and a lot of it's like, ditto. You know, that that'd be my answer. But I mean, I'll go around quickly and potentially say something a little fresh from my perspective. Justin in particular. Again, I relate to Justin a lot. And again, Justin is a super solid guy, but one of the things I appreciate about him a lot is his creativity. He's artistic and a bit of a nerd, but that's good. I love it because I was always kind of a nerdy, artistic kid, and I can really relate. He's a musician. He has a great eye for design. He's funny. He has a good, great sense of humor. And so certainly, you know Justin, even though he is quiet and I think it took me a while to get to know him, the more I know him, the more I say, boy, I really relate to this guy. You know, he feels like definitely we have that bond together. Sal, I mean, it's been said more than once here is salvation. He does have that, that fatherly. You called him mother, but I call.

[Adam Schaefer]

Him because it's so sweet. That's why it's less fatherly. It's less. Yeah. Domineering, alpha. It's very feminine. You know, he's got a very, you know, call me. Hey, you okay? I know you were kind of coughing earlier today. Make sure you take this and take that.

[Sal Destefano]

That's.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's motherly to me, bro. That's not fatherly. You know, father is more like a get up. You'll be all right.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Doug]

So I really admire that, and it's something I actually aspire to have more of, is this like, like empathetic side. So I know. I knew Sal, obviously, because I hired him as my personal trainer and I started working with this guy and I said, this guy is. What's he doing in the small studio in Los Gatos, right? This guy needs to get his voice out there. I mean, when I came into the. His private studio the first time, this guy's, you know, dressed in a. His uniform, you know, with his clipboard, very professional. And then as time went on, I. I really got to see obviously, his vast amount of knowledge and his ability to communicate and remember jokes. The dude can come off with so many jokes that. How do you remember that stuff? You know? But, yeah, just really multifaceted in his ability. So, Adam, I'm going to kind of echo what Justin said, and I admire it as much as it can be. Frustrating. I so admire the ability to be ultra direct and to tell people exactly what you're thinking, because I'm one to kind of like, you know, be the diplomat yet get away with it. I mean, it's because he's so honest. People's like, well, shit. I mean, he just. He said it, and it's like, it must be true because he's just such an honest personality in way of approaching things. And so, I mean, I so admire that. And it's something I've actually been working to get better at. And then this company, his ability to oversee everything as he is our CEO and he is rightfully so. I don't think any of the rest of us want that title. He has his fingers on the pulse of everything, everything. And sometimes it's almost annoying because he'll bring up something, it's like, oh, shit, I forgot about that. How did he remember that? And it's very impressive, but I would, you know, want nobody else other than him to do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Amazing.

[Roxanne Safai]

I am gonna clap. Okay, well, I'm gonna wrap.

[Adam Schaefer]

No more crying, dude. Enough of the emotional stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

Come on.

[Roxanne Safai]

By the way, one of them die.

[Sal Destefano]

And which one first? You know?

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, wait, when's the actual celebration of.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's December 7th, or I think the 5th. Yeah, the 5th is when the video will be up. When we'll. We'll play it for our staff and everything like that. So every year we have a big Christmas party, which is also like our annual.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Fifth, Doug. Is that what is.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's correct.

[Adam Schaefer]

And because it's our 10 year, we're. I know our team is working on, like, a really cool coffee table book of all the photos and everything. For 10 years, they all. The editing team pulled each of us aside and we've created some content about each other, but no one has spoke that. So maybe you got some of those tears out that well, because I'm sure it would have been flowing. I'm still gonna.

[Doug]

At the party.

[Sal Destefano]

So on the.

[Adam Schaefer]

On the spot. That was even harder, you know, with them, because it was easiest with them not in the room. I think them being in the room.

[Roxanne Safai]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Brought more emotion and stuff because I didn't cry. I said all that stuff before. But you pulled the emotion out of it on video.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you?

[Adam Schaefer]

Of course you did. Of course the mother did. Of course the mother did. You know what I'm saying? So I love it.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, 10 years. So here's my two final questions. So the first one is, can we fucking do this again? Because I have so many more questions.

[Sal Destefano]

Sure.

[Roxanne Safai]

You guys are the shit. Truly so special to be here with all of you. The other question, the final question is 10 years from now, where do you. Where do you hope to be? Where do you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. I think right now the mission is the. Is the trainer side. I think there is a possibility we can have 50 to 100 badass personal trainers underneath us.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And to. And we all. One of the things also that we had in common. We didn't touch on this. This is. We all came from 24 Hour Fitness.

[Roxanne Safai]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

And we all were a part of like the early days. And as much as we'd rather be here and love what we do, there was, there was like an energy about like that company when we were there that was really fun that we all share stories about the good old days of some of the stuff we used to do. And so I think that we all share a similar vision of implementing some of that stuff. Stuff like within our own company. And we just never had the size to make sense to do that. And we're going to be there in the next year. And So I think 10 years from now, you know, 50 to 80 employees and a really cool like event like I think that'll be. I mean that's kind of what I see. I think we all think at one point, I don't know if it's in 10 years or not, that the podcast is a little less volume. Volume or frequency. I should say.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, we'll still do this. We'll do this. It'll be like three episodes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I think we all agree we'd do this till we're 80. But I think, I think the. To do everything else that we do. Plus also, I mean, you know, you understand what it takes to come up and do episode like we pump out five a week on top of everything else we do. And so I think that in a perfect sweet spot it would be like three, two or three and then. And then really grow the in person side. So that's what I'm surprised.

[Sal Destefano]

No 100. I'd love to have the first like national coaching brand or company. There is no really representative company out there for what it could be like. So I'd like that. I'd like that. I'd like the standard. Love to create the standard.

[Justin Andrews]

We love Mavericks.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yes you are.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

It's a mind pump movement for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

I hope.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Roxanne Safai]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

That's what I want.

[Roxanne Safai]

I mean. Yeah. I'm stating it. Let's go for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's Go, let's see.

[Sal Destefano]

We'll have you back on in 10 years and see if it's.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'll see.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll have you before.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'll do that before. We do it before for sure.

[Roxanne Safai]

Justin.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I, I mean I'm excited about the trainer side just as much as they are. And then you know, we, we'd flirted around with the idea of like having a gym physically, but I, the thing that's cool is like we get into something and we figure out what's working and then what's working. It's all kind of remote. It's very small right now. But like I, I can't help but this and see this grow and like where is this? Like like times 10 and, and I do potentially see it maybe having a few locations that are actually physical. So who knows? I mean obviously that's, that's something we joked about. The beginning is like you might as well own a bar at that point, you know, because it's not such. That was on our radar. Yeah, it's not combined but it'd be fun to show or at least a big ass head headquarters somewhere. Yeah, that would be fun. And just a whole fleet of trainers that we get to just talk to pump up, motivate to teach and just send them off to the world to do the good, the good deeds.

[Roxanne Safai]

Well, I really believe because you guys are such legit contributors, like you were truly making a difference in life in this world, that you are supported from the highest, from the highest and certainly over here. So thank you so much for making time. This has been so deeply special and truly an honor to be with all of you.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal Adam adjustment as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.