2786: The 5 "Good" Reasons to Do Cardio (Most People Get This Wrong)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2786 — The 5 "Good" Reasons to Do Cardio (Most People Get This Wrong)

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

Original Air Date: February 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew lays out the five genuinely good reasons to add cardiovascular training to your routine, while busting myths about common (often misguided) motivations for cardio. Drawing from decades of coaching, they explain the contexts where cardio shines, why strength training is often the better tool for fat loss and aesthetics, and how to apply specific training for well-rounded, resilient fitness. The episode features in-depth discussion, humorous asides, and live Q&As tackling real listener challenges.

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The 5 Good Reasons to Do Cardio

1. Building Endurance

• Key Point: Cardio is the most effective tool for developing cardiovascular endurance, allowing you to perform longer in sports, day-to-day activities, and recreational pursuits.
  • “The number one reason that you would want to do cardio is for endurance… It’s a great way to build endurance.” — Sal (06:57)
• Practical Application: The type of endurance you need should guide your chosen activity — hiking for hiking, running for running, etc.
  • “If you want to get really good at hiking up hills, hiking up hills is the way you… should go. If you want to get really good at playing soccer, then you should play soccer…” — Doug (07:40)
• For general endurance, prioritize enjoyable, low-impact options like steep incline walking, cycling, or hiking (08:15).
• Avoid starting overly intense (like running or sprinting) if you’re just trying to avoid being winded on stairs.

2. Because You Truly Love It

• Key Point: Enjoyment breeds consistency, and finding a cardio activity you love (whether salsa dancing or basketball) is reason enough.
  • “If somebody’s like, I love rowing… well, keep doing it.” — Sal (10:30)
  • “The biggest challenge with exercise is not the results. The biggest challenge is consistency, period.” — Sal (10:32)
• Word of Caution: Make sure you genuinely love the activity for its own sake — not just as a means to burn calories or control weight.
  • “Many times, we’re running away from something, of course, or needed a marathon… but would say ‘I love to run.’... make sure that it's a true passion of yours.” — Doug (11:31)

3. Cardio for Good Health & Longevity

• Key Point: Cardio, used appropriately, supports heart health (improving cholesterol, triglycerides, etc.), especially when combined with other training for a complete routine.
  • “If you’re trying to change your blood lipid levels… cardiovascular activity tends to have a better approach.” — Sal (13:36)
• Even if you strength train, maintaining a habit of cardiovascular movement preserves specific physical abilities throughout life.
  • “If you stop doing that activity, you’ll actually lose the ability to do it well… your body prunes them away.” — Sal (14:47)
• Caveat: Don’t overdo cardio if you’re metabolically unhealthy or frail; focus on building strength and resilience first (16:14).

4. Getting You Outdoors

• Key Point: For “gym rats” or desk-bound folks, outdoor cardio is a way to intentionally get fresh air, sunlight, movement, and exposure to nature.
  • “Going outside is good for you… for some people, cardio type activity… is the one thing that gets you to go outside. And I think that’s a great reason.” — Sal (17:25)
  • “I actually think, of all the points, this is the most important one.” — Doug (18:02)
• Being outdoors benefits mood, health, and generally counters the sedentary indoor lifestyle.

5. Connecting With Others

• Key Point: Cardio-based activities (sports, walks, group exercise) are social glue, providing opportunities to bond and connect.
  • “This is how they socialize. Yeah. This is how they connect to other people.” — Sal (19:53)
  • “For me, like, I just crave movement and I crave, like, getting that from my body… but also, interacting with people just makes it so much better.” — Justin (20:00)
• Social movement is shown to improve mental, emotional, and overall health — especially important given trends toward digital isolation (21:19).

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The WRONG Reasons to Do Cardio

Fat Loss & Aesthetics — Cardio as a Primary Fat-Burning Tool

• Key Message: Cardio is not the most effective way to lose fat or sculpt your body — strength training is.
  • “What’s the worst reason to do cardio? … Lose body fat. Yep. Will you lose some body fat with cardio? Yeah. Are there better ways to do it? Yeah, a lot better ways to do it.” — Sal (21:35)
  • “Cardio by itself in a calorie deficit causes muscle loss and fat loss, causes a negative adaptation with the metabolism, tends to cause plateaus.” — Sal (21:41)
  • “It’s the wrong tool for the job that you want.” — Doug (23:49)
• Cardio in a deficit results in muscle loss and metabolic slowdown, making strength training the superior option for “sculpting, building metabolism, losing body fat.”
• If aesthetics or limited training time is your focus, prioritize lifting weights (22:30).
• This is why Mind Pump is perceived as “anti-cardio”: “We’re the anti-do-cardio-for-the-wrong-reason guys.” — Sal (23:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Exercise as a Toolbox:
  “Different forms of exercise have their own unique benefits. It’s like you have a toolbox… important to know the tool and what it's good for.” — Sal (03:55)
• On Misplaced Love for Cardio:
  “People abuse exercise. We know that. So, you know, lots of people will say they love the abuse, when in reality, a good coach will sniff that out for sure.” — Sal (13:21)
• On Outgrowing Abilities:
  “If you stop doing that activity, even if you work out… you’ll actually lose the ability to do it well… your body prunes them away.” — Sal (14:47)
• On Social Health:
  “We’ve become more connected online but more isolated to in-person stuff. And so these two [outdoors + connection] are probably the best arguments [for now].” — Doug (21:19)
• On Coaching vs. Self-Coaching:
  “You never work to coach yourself… It really helps to have a guide that you can trust and say, ‘Okay I’m going to trust the process, I’m going to do it, and not listen to myself…’” — Sal (66:49)

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[Key Segment Timestamps]

• [03:28] – Main topic intro: “The 5 good reasons to do cardio.”
• [06:57] — Reason 1: Endurance.
• [10:30] — Reason 2: Love/enjoyment—do what you love.
• [13:36] — Reason 3: Cardiovascular health & lifelong abilities.
• [17:25] — Reason 4: Getting outdoors.
• [19:52] — Reason 5: Social connection.
• [21:35] — Why cardio is NOT the answer for fat loss or aesthetics.
• [23:46] — Mind Pump’s rationale: Not anti-cardio, "anti-wrong-reason".
• [61:00] — Q&A: Petite frame / lean female, challenge of eating enough calories and building muscle.
• [70:14] — Q&A: Mom who wants to peak at 30, balancing PRs & lifestyle.
• [80:16] — Q&A: Young mechanic, former wrestler, 150lb weight loss, scared to eat more, now lifting.
• [86:18] — Q&A: Husband wants to help wife start strength training safely.
• [92:25] — Reflections on coaching spouses, pitfalls & tips.

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Listener Q&A Highlights

1. "Do petite women have to work harder to stay lean?" [61:00]

• Alexa (5’0”): Frustrated at needing to eat low calories and train hard to look lean.
  • Sal: “You’re tripping. It feels hard because you’re doing the wrong stuff…15% body fat is too lean to maintain. Focus on building muscle, eating more, cutting running post-race.”
  • Adam: “You’ll build more muscle, the faster your metabolism gets, and you can be this lean eating more calories.”

2. "Is it too late to see muscle & strength gains in your 30s?" [70:14]

• Vanita: Wants to peak for her 30th birthday for motivation.
  • Adam: “Do not be fooled that you can continue to gain strength and build muscle for a long time… Some of my strongest, most beautiful clients were 70.”
  • Sal: Reverse diet, control bulk, focus on Mass 15 Power Lift, add calories even if it feels scary.

3. "How do I eat to gain muscle after massive weight loss?" [80:16]

• Caden: 19, lost 150 lbs, now on TRT, nervous to up calories.
  • Sal: “You can easily bump your calories… You’re underfeeding it right now—bump to 2500, build up, train hard.”
  • Adam: Controlled, gradual increase; use the Mind Pump forum for accountability.

4. "Getting my wife started with resistance training." [86:18]

• Casey: Wife is new, wants simple, sustainable start.
  • Sal: Start with Starter Program. Then Maps 15, then explore others.
  • Adam: “Always worth investing in a coach—easier to hear feedback from someone besides a spouse!” (89:15)
  • Tips on the challenges of coaching your spouse vs. having a third-party coach.

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The Mind Pump Crew’s Approach: "Right Tool for the Right Job"

• Every form of exercise offers unique benefits.
• Start exercise with clear intentions and match the “tool” (cardio, strength, etc.) to your goal.
• Enjoyment, specificity, health context, outdoor exposure, and socialization are good reasons to include cardio — not just because it burns calories.

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Closing Thought

The Mind Pump team’s message: “Cardio has real value when it’s used specifically and intentionally. But if you’re after fat loss or transformation, strength training is king. Stay intentional, challenge yourself, and look for activities you can love for life — not just quick fixes.”

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Find Mind Pump:
Instagram: @mindpumpmedia
Programs & resources: mindpumpmedia.com

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Transcript

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[Sal Destefano]

Mind Pump.

[Doug]

Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and just you just found.

[Sal Destefano]

The most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we got to coach people on air. People called in and we helped them out with their health and fitness. And we can help you out too. By the way, if you want to be in an episode like that. Send your question to mplifecaller.com now. That segment was after the intro. Today's intro is 54 minutes long. It's where we talk about fat loss and muscle gain, current events, family life, that kind of stuff. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is dose. I talked about their cholesterol product. So you drink two ounces a day. And in a clinical study, over 90% of the participants saw an improvement in their LDL in their cholesterol, their triglycerides. So it actually works. It's all natural. If you need to improve your blood lipids, you can try this before going to a prescription. Go to dosedaily.co mindpump. The discount code is mindpump the that'll get you 25% off. This episode's also brought to you by joovv. Red Light Therapy that works. Studies show that red light therapy, well, it's got lots of benefits. Regrows hair. It's good for your skin, makes it look younger. Within a few applications, builds muscle, gives you a better pump. Red light therapy works. Unfortunately, a lot of the products out there are crappy. They don't have the right wavelength or power. Joovv is the real deal. Go to Joovv.com that's J-O-O-V-V.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get $50 off. We also have a brand new sale in February. It's the couples bundle. This is Maps, Aesthetic maps, Hit Maps, Muscle Mommy, and the no BS Six pack formula. All of those in the couple's bundle normally would cost you almost $500, but right now you can get all those for 1. 97. Go to MPValentine.com and sign up. All right, here comes the show.

[Doug]

T shirt time.

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[Doug]

Oh, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week.

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[Sal Destefano]

All right, real quick.

[Justin]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to mypumpstore.com that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

Cardiovascular training. It's a form of exercise with its own benefits. Sometimes people do it for the wrong reasons, but if you do it for the right reasons, you're likely to do it the right way and reap incredible benefits. We're talking about the five good reasons why you should do cardio. And then later on, we'll talk about some of the terrible reasons why people do cardio. Let's get to it.

[Doug]

Here they are.

[Justin]

Promote cardio.

[Doug]

There are none. No, I'm just kidding. Everybody gets all upset.

[Sal Destefano]

Pump up that myth about us. Anti cardio. No, I mean, I want to open. I also want to say this. All forms of exercise, if applied appropriately, have benefits. Exercise and activity in general is just good for you so long as it's applied appropriately. But different forms of exercise have their own unique benefits. So the way I'd like to explain it or the way I've explained it in the past, it's like you have a toolbox and you open up the toolbox and you have a screwdriver and a hammer and a saw. And, you know, I could use, you know, a hammer to try and break a piece of wood in half, but it'd be better off if I use a saw right so it's important to know the tool and what it's good for.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And then if you approach it like that, you'll get the best benefit. If you do it for the wrong reasons, you. You tend to miss out on.

[Justin]

Well, at the end of the day, it's always. The body adapts and responds best to specificity.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Justin]

And so if you're looking at this like, what is my intention going in to my training and, you know, this exercise specifically, what are the benefits of it? What can I squeeze out and maximize the most to. To get that kind of potential. But, you know, cardio itself has benefits. You just have to know exactly, like what you're going in to it for.

[Doug]

Could you say, or would you say that any and all stresses that induce adaptations are a good thing if the.

[Sal Destefano]

Adaptations are to make you more resilient? Yes, yes, absolutely. You could have negative adaptations to trauma, you know, and stresses. But you're right, if it's an adaptation that makes you more resilient, if it's a good adaptation. We're getting real specific now, but generally speaking, I'd say that's correct. Yeah.

[Doug]

That's why I just, I framed it that way. It's like you could, you could potentially. Because I think that's the, the thing that we always have to understand that about exercise. Because obviously all exercise can be good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

But it's not good isolated. It's good because it's a stress that tends to have a positive adaptation attached to it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

Tends to also is key word there.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Because we. But we have to look at exercise from that framework. It's not that it by itself is good, it's what it induces that typically is good. And when used appropriately to your tool points can be really good or applied appropriately, but when used improperly can.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Doug]

Be not good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I mean, you could exercise so improperly you hurt yourself or you beat yourself up or you induce no changes because you're not. It's not intense enough, for example. So. All right, let's talk about cardio and like the five, you know, good reasons to do cardio and the reasons will motivate the application. What I mean by that is if you do forms of exercise for the right reasons, then you tend to perform that type of exercise properly because you're aiming in the right direction. Okay. So the number one reason that you would want to do cardio is for endurance.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Is it's a great way to build endurance.

[Justin]

Sure.

[Sal Destefano]

It's one of the best ways to Build cardiovascular endurance. Like you want to be able to run, you want to be able to swim, you want to be able to play for long periods of time with your kids at the park. Like you're going to need some cardiovascular endurance. And cardio is a great way to build endurance.

[Justin]

If fatigue is a major factor for you, doing any kind of movement, like focusing on cardiovascular type training is really going to be a massive benefit for you going forward to then in any other pursuit after that, it's like, you know, now we can eliminate that as a major factor. Fatigue is, is a pretty, pretty big barrier for you.

[Doug]

Pointed in the right direction though. Who, who brought up which one of you said specificity? Was it you, Justin?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So because and to your kind of like, if you want to get really good at hiking up hills, hiking up hills is the way you probably the.

[Sal Destefano]

Best form of car.

[Doug]

Right. If you want to get really good at playing soccer, then you should play soccer. Soccer. If you want to get good at running long distances, then run like, then.

[Sal Destefano]

That'S what you practice.

[Doug]

So I think that's also important to totally to nail down here is like if endurance is what we're after, okay, the next layer to that is what kind of endurance am I after? And then that's how I apply cardio.

[Sal Destefano]

Now there is general endurance that you'll build. That being said, if you just want to get overall better endurance and stamina just for everyday life, then you may choose the form of cardio that you enjoy the most. That's the safest for you, that you could perform the best. So there is general. Right. General overall fitness. Just like you could build general strength.

[Justin]

Like a foundation of it.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. That's right. So you want endurance again, when somebody says I want more endurance and stamina, cardio is one of the tools I'm going to use. One of the first tools I'm going to use.

[Doug]

Okay, let's use that actually. Because if someone came to you and said, I just want general endurance, I'm not trying to play soccer, I just, I don't want to have shortness of breath when I'm, you know, going up the stairs. Yes. And so when I think of that, the, the way I think I would probably apply cardio to that person. Like as far as the tools inside of a gym would be like a steep incline walk, power walk.

[Justin]

Sure.

[Doug]

I mean a steep incline power walk is going to elevate the heart rate in a way that is going to build some stamina endurance and safer you.

[Justin]

Can get to that specificity and emulate it, the better.

[Doug]

And it, and it's, and it's challenging enough that, you know, walking around and playing with your kids and doing stuff like that is. It's going to cover those bases really level. I would not have you sprint on the, the, the treadmill for 20 minutes or whatever at a time that I would, I would, I would prefer to put that client on. Like I said. Yeah, the steep incline power walk.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I mean, sprinting is gonna be inappropriate if somebody says I, I get gassed going up the stairs. Yeah, we're not sprinting. That's not where we're gonna start.

[Doug]

That's my point, though, because. Because people will start with running. I mean, I should have said sprint, just running. People would say, I'm gonna go run as and I'm gonna run as as long and hard as I can. Try and improve that. It's like, well, we could also put that treadmill on a 11 incline and walk at speed 3 to 4 and watch that heart rate. Get up.

[Sal Destefano]

Treadmill walking or uphill walking or bike were my favorite forms of, you know, let's get started with cardio. Forms of cardio. Yeah.

[Doug]

Because they're saying, and I want general endurance.

[Sal Destefano]

They don't require tons of skill. The risk, the risk of injury is very low in comparison.

[Doug]

Low impact.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. That's right. So those would be the ones I would pick. But again, you want endurance. Cardio style training is going to be great. Next up is. You love doing it. I never like to discourage somebody who's found a form of activity that they love, because the biggest challenge with exercise is not the results. The biggest challenge is consistency, period. End of story. And so if somebody's like, I love rowing, I love rowing. Well, keep doing it. That's the form of cardio you're going to do. Keep doing. I love running outside, Sal. Like, are you going to tell me to stop doing it? No, no, I want you to keep doing it because you love it. I love salsa dancing. I had clients that would tell me. I actually had this one client who. She's like, I want, you know, I want to keep working on my endurance. I said, well, what do you like doing? She's like, well, does salsa dancing count? I said, well, yeah. She's like, well, I love doing that. I'll do that with my husband, so go do more of it. She's so excited that that was the form of cardio that I recommended.

[Doug]

So I'm going to do my best to try and challenge Every point that you bring up just to make people think, even, like, deeper sometimes, in my experience, someone who brings up salsa dancing, their love for basketball, or, you know, swimming that they did their whole life, they love, like, easily. That's normally like, oh, yes, keep going. Doing that. I've had a lot of clients that claim to love running, and many times we're running away from something, of course. Or needed a marathon in order to get them motivated to burn calories, to lose weight, but would say, I love to run. And so I would challenge the person that said that to make sure that it's a true passion of yours that you would do. Regardless of your. Where you're from, fitness goals are at body fat percentage, aesthetics, and all those things.

[Sal Destefano]

You like doing it for the sake of doing.

[Doug]

That's right. Independent of that, I think is so important and important to. As the. The. The client to peer into that, because. Would you guys not agree that you've had a lot of clients who said, I love to run?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

And it's like, well, do you really love to run, or has this been the thing that you always do to try and get in shape?

[Justin]

The underlying thing might be, like, keeping my body at this size or whatever. You know, there's something else that's like, right, yeah.

[Doug]

Like, all the time I'm running, I can keep myself at this weight. And so that I've learned to love that thing versus, like, do you really love it? And. And I think that's a very. A good. I'm glad you brought the salsa dancing, because that's a very clear difference. Like the person who goes salsa, David, I'm going salsa dancing, so I can lose 15 pounds.

[Sal Destefano]

Usually they do it because they're like.

[Doug]

They live. They dance. They do it because they love to dance. Or the person who's like, I'm gonna go pick up some ball, because they play ball their whole life, they love to do that, versus the person who is. Who chooses to go rhyme because they. That's when I was in the best shape of my life.

[Sal Destefano]

Because I like to be skinny.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

Difference, no.

[Sal Destefano]

That's why the asterisk of appropriate has to be in there. So if it's appropriately applied. But people abuse exercise. We know that. So, you know, lots of people will say they love the abuse, when in reality, a good coach will sniff that out for sure.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Next, you want good health. So all forms of activity, again, applied appropriately will improve your health, but each form of activity is unique in how it improves health. We've Talked ad nauseam of the benefits of strength training and strength training across the board. If you had to pick a form of exercise in the context of modern life, especially when you throw aging in there, if you had to pick one, it's the best one. But cardio is great for other things. If you're trying to change your blood lipid levels, you want to lower your ldl, raise your hdl, maybe change the particle size of your ldl, change your triglycerides, cardiovascular activity tends to have a better approach. And if you're looking for good overall health and you like to work out and you approach it the right way, yeah, cardio is going to be a part of this. So a good routine for someone who's like, I just like good health and longevity, cardio is going to be a part of the mix.

[Justin]

I think especially too, if it's like, it's difficult with your everyday life schedule to like, have movement opportunities, and you kind of need to schedule that a little bit more. I think cardio fits in that category just to broaden your amount and volume of movement.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. And also when we're talking about good health, we also mean the ability to continue doing certain activities throughout your whole life. So what I mean by that is, like, we'll use running as an example. You know, you like to run, you enjoy it, you do it in your 20s, you approach it appropriately, you do it in your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, your 60s, your 70s. You'll never lose the ability to run if you stop running, even if you're fit, even if you work out. Otherwise, if you stop doing that activity, you'll actually lose the ability to do it well. And this is, I mean, look, I could take a very fit person in the gym who does, you know, cardio on a bike, who strength trains, who never runs. And you have them run. And although they have the endurance and stamina, they have bad technique and the skill of running, their body's actually forgotten. So good health also means the ability to do all these things that I want to continue doing, and you need to practice them. Otherwise your body prunes them away, actually gets rid of the ability to do that.

[Doug]

So again, doing my best to try and challenge all these great points and to think the full picture of this, many times get a client who is not in the best place metabolically, but they say they want to start running because they want good health. They've heard someone like Sal say that this is a great goal to have. I may not have run or do Cardio, I should say at the beginning, because I want to build muscle, build their metabolism before I introduce that. And so you also, you also don't.

[Sal Destefano]

Want to take someone who's frail and start them out with lots of cardio. You want to strengthen them a little first.

[Doug]

Right.

[Justin]

Which so, so be resilient for that repetitive stress.

[Doug]

And, and you, you will hear this a lot from somebody who just got back from the doctor who told them all their markers are all off and they need to get healthy or is recently motivated to become healthy and they're carrying all this extra body fat on them and that. And so, okay, that person, it seems you would think like cardio would be a good thing, but at it will be a part of their routine. Just not at first. At first I'm going to really focus on, on building muscle, building the correctional exercise movement pattern. That's right. And so again, this is where someone could get this, this message misconstrued is that they hear, oh yeah, okay, well that's me. I want to be a healthy person. And so let me add cardio also. But maybe I don't have you where I want you yet strengthened metabolically before I would do something like that, 100%.

[Sal Destefano]

Next up. This is a good point, everybody, I'm about to make here. It sounds silly, but it's a good point. I fall in this category, which is it gets you to go outside. There's a lot of gym rats. Okay. That's a real term. A gym rat is a fitness person that lives in the gym.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And they don't go outside. They never go outside. They don't go outside unless they're getting to their car.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

This easily could be me. Now I have kids and my kids get me to go outside. But if I didn't have kids or if my kids, my little ones were older, I would almost never do lots of stuff outside. I would do all my exercise indoors because I love the gym. Going outside is good for you. It's beneficial to get in the fresh air and the sun. And for some people, like cardio type activity, like getting on your bike, riding around, going on long walks, on hikes, it's the one thing that gets you to go outside. And I think that's a great reason.

[Doug]

I absolutely, I actually think of all the points, this is the most important one. Unless you have a job that requires you do labor outside, which is a small percentage of the population. And I think that we are more and more trapped inside under these, you know, blue lights where we're Sitting in front of blue screens and sedentary. And I think that just the idea of getting outside and moving in, fresh air, fresh sunlight, nature is probably the best argument of all the things that you brought up, in my opinion, especially.

[Sal Destefano]

For guys like us. Like, I would say Justin's probably the most likely to do stuff outside, but you and I are like gym rats. Like, we would do all of our.

[Doug]

Workouts inside and maybe that's why I feel so passionate about this is.

[Sal Destefano]

But like it gets you to go out.

[Doug]

Like, it hits, it hits home for myself personally, totally. It, it was something that I, I became more aware of as I got older and, and, and in the past I would never have done this. And it was like so anti the outdoor run or hiker thing. As, as a young guy, I was so, so much more the gym rat. Where I have found in my, you know, late 30s to 40s sometimes I, I don't make it even to the gym, but I'll make a point to go for a nice walk with my wife. Like, and so I think that that has tremendous. When you think it, when you say your goal is health, it has so many other benefits. Sure, it's not the fastest way to build 10 pounds of muscle or burn 10 pounds of body fat, but when you think of general health, it's probably one of the greatest arguments.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, absolutely. And then lastly it, it encourages you and helps you to connect with others. For some people, outdoor cardio or cardiovascular type activities, like sports. Yeah.

[Justin]

Structured activities.

[Sal Destefano]

This is how they socialize. Yeah. This is how they connect to other people. I know a lot of dads like this. I know a lot of dads that have.

[Justin]

This is me, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

This is. Okay.

[Justin]

I have to like have something if I'm going to hang out, I'm not gonna sit down inside and talk.

[Doug]

Horrible, dude. That's what you do.

[Justin]

I already use for work. No, we're outside and we're doing something. I'm either playing, you know, whatever it is, like racquetball or, you know, shooting hoops or, or we're walking or we're whatever, whatever it is. Like, I'm like, I'll meet you outside, we're at the beach or something. Just because it's like for me, like I, I just crave movement and I crave like getting that from my body. There's so many benefits to it. But like also interacting with people just makes it so much better.

[Doug]

Isn't there a viral app right now that's going on that's you meet up with People. Yeah. For a walk. It's like, it was like. It's like the dog walking version. I've heard of it. Where people can connect just to I.

[Justin]

I think kids, animals, you got to.

[Sal Destefano]

Get them all outside. I know, I know dads where this is the only. This is when they get to hang out with other people is when they, on the weekend go play some sport or do something with their buddies. I know a lot of moms stay at home moms who feel so isolated they're at home with their kids. But then when they meet with other moms is when they get the kids in the stroller and they all go for walks at the park. And really it's about doing the walk or doing the workout, but they get to connect and be with other people. And that's super important for health, everybody. The data on that is very clear.

[Doug]

And again, I think these last two have become more important in the last few decades. I think we've become more connected online but more isolated to than in person stuff. And so I, I think these two are probably the best arguments for now.

[Sal Destefano]

What's the worst reason to do cardio? What's the one?

[Doug]

Well, this, this the main reason why they do it.

[Justin]

Shave body fat.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Lose body fat. Yep. Will you lose some body fat with cardio? Yeah. Are there better ways to do it? Yeah, a lot better way. Better ways to do it. Cardio by itself in a calorie deficit causes muscle loss and fat loss causes a negative adaptation with the metabolism, tends to cause plateaus. Strength training will preserve muscle or build muscle as you lose body fat. It's a better form of exercise for that. The other one is aesthetics, which is kind of long. Those like, I want to look better, better ways to do that. Strength training. You can sculpt your body the way you want. Cardio, you just kind of lose overall weight. And again, you can lose muscle or you often do. And again, this is why, if that's your main reason for exercising, if your main reason is, I want fat loss and aesthetics and I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to.

[Justin]

Cardio is indiscriminate. It's not that specific.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. It's so it's like, okay, I only got a couple days a week that I can dedicate to exercise. I want fat loss. The form of exercise to me doesn't matter. I just want to do what's effective and fat loss is number one. Then don't pick cardio, pick strength training.

[Doug]

This is, this is why You've heard us for so many years rail on cardio is because we know that 90% of the people that came to us, this was the goal.

[Justin]

This was the big button.

[Doug]

90% of the people come for fat loss or changing the way they look.

[Sal Destefano]

I would say it's higher. It was actually rare.

[Doug]

I got someone who's like, very rare that you get someone who just says, I just want general health, or I want to be. Increase my vertical. Like, that was so fat loss. Everybody wants to lose fat. Everybody wants to look better. Which is why that message that you've heard from us for so long, which is also too. And it's always the. The 10, the small 10 of people that have the other goals or have. Are utilizing cardio appropriately are always the ones that push back at us. And it's like, you're the minority. Most people go to the gym or hire a personal trainer because they need to lose body fat or they want to lose body fat or they want to look different, I. E. Build muscle or lose fat. And so because of that, you've heard this message of that we're the anti cardio guys.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's like, we're the anti do cardio for the wrong reason guys.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's right.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's.

[Doug]

It's the wrong tool for the job that you want. If it. If it was the right tool for the job, we would never tell. We would never let a client hire us and be like, I want to build endurance or I want to get good. At this point, be like, no cardio for you. We're just hitting weights like, it would never happen.

[Sal Destefano]

But ridiculous.

[Doug]

That's such a small percentage of people that come to a trainer. Most people come because they. They want to look different. And so cardio, I think, is a terrible tool for that. And it doesn't mean it can't be utilized at some point, but it's for the. For the main part of the job, the sculpting, the building, the metabolism, the losing the body fat. It's a terrible tool.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. All right, I gotta bring something up that I was. I'm really impressed with this company. It's one we work with. It's dose. And they have a cholesterol product. So for people aren't familiar, it's like a bottle. It's liquid. You. That.

[Doug]

I used to think you'd drink the whole thing.

[Sal Destefano]

No. So glad you didn't do that. You pour a serving, I think it's 2 ounces, you drink it, you take it Daily. Here's why I'm impressed. They fund and I'll pull it up. They fund and do their own clinical trials. Supplement companies don't do this. Supplement companies will say this study shows this on an ingredient. And then this other study shows dose took their actually did their own clinical trials. So they can make claims. Right. And here's what they found. It's a 90 day clinical study. People using the dose or compounds that were in dose showed 95% of them had an improvement in their LDL. 90 of them had an improvement in triglycerides, 81 of them had an improvement in their total cholesterol.

[Doug]

Can I comment just on how powerful of a study that is too is to. To. It wasn't a survey.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Doug]

People that 95 of people said they felt better. No, they reported. These are actual markers, blood markers that were measured before that they went and did that and they saw that much improvement.

[Sal Destefano]

Everybody got positive results, which almost everybody.

[Doug]

That's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

That's awesome.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Now the reason this is for me more important than ever now. And I'll tell you guys why. So I have my, my normal blood lipid panel. So total cholesterol, hdl, ldl, triglycerides is always great. In fact, I'm like, I'm, I'm invincible. Like, nothing I can do will affect my blood lipids in a bad way. But I've never done a study that differentiates particles. I've never done that. So I'm trying to. I'm getting myself set up with one. And so now, because you guys know me, I worry about everything. So now I'm like, oh, I hope it comes back. Okay. Because I'm also going to do a study that is going to look at my arteries to see how clean and clear they are. And I got motivated because I was talking to my buddy who's a. He's an ER doctor, fit and healthy guy. And he said he got that done and he was surprised to see the results. So he had to change some things even though he was healthy. So I'm like, ooh, I've never done that. So I'm going to take a look.

[Doug]

And, and the thing that we did with Pernuvu, that, that wouldn't.

[Sal Destefano]

That does not. That looks at heart, your heart muscle and if there's any enlargement or anything like that, which I didn't have any. None of us did. But it doesn't look at your arteries. Yeah. It doesn't look to see if they're, if they're how blocked they are? 100.

[Doug]

Yeah. I thought we were getting all of it.

[Sal Destefano]

I know.

[Doug]

So what's the, what's the test look different? Like? That was like a crazy full on blood test. So that a blood test will tell.

[Justin]

Distinguish the particle size?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Yeah, they differentiate the particle size. So you see.

[Doug]

Well, what about the arteries? What. What kind. What kind of scanner test will they.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's a CT scan. It's a CT scan. So they actually look at the arteries themselves. And, and so I know somebody. I know someone else. Fit and healthy. Okay. He was in his 50s.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Cool.

[Sal Destefano]

Worked out everything right. Came back 75. Blockage.

[Doug]

What would you.

[Sal Destefano]

And he's like, what? So he had to change his eating habits, added other forms of exercise and over a couple of years got it down to 40%.

[Justin]

Some kind of genetic polymorphism?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, yes.

[Doug]

Okay, so it's less. Okay, so it's. It's less likely something he was doing.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, whatever he was doing didn't work with his genetics apparently because he was fit and healthy. He wasn't overweight. He was active.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

Came back 75%. Which is. Yeah.

[Justin]

This doesn't sound typical at all.

[Sal Destefano]

Which. So I'm like curious. Right? I want to scare all of us. I want to see.

[Justin]

He's an anomaly.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, I mean, here's typical cell. I'm going to. I'm going to calm everybody down. If your family line includes lots of heart attacks and heart disease, you look into it. You definitely want to look at all the means.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I have none. Nobody doesn't help me. Huh.

[Announcer]

My dad had blockages.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah. And I don't have. Nobody in my family gets heart attack or anything like that, so. But I'm going to go get checked anyway. But I love that dose. Has a natural product that has been shown to actually have positive effects. So I'm super motivated to use it. It's funny, the older I get, the more interested I am in health supplements, not just like muscle building supplements.

[Doug]

That's the shift that you've been in.

[Justin]

You've gone from excuse my organs.

[Sal Destefano]

Does it make your biceps bigger? I don't know, but at least I'll have them. Speaking of biceps, dude, I. I did today. I love old school exercises that fall out of favor that people just stop doing. Here's what I got. What do you do?

[Justin]

Resurrect them?

[Sal Destefano]

Well, here's why I got motivated. So yesterday I did a reaction video. So Josh does some of our social media comparing our arms. No, no, he was. He had a Reaction video where it was doc. It was Mike Israel to.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Talking about leg extensions. And at first when it popped up, I'm like, great. Am I going to.

[Justin]

Oh, great, he's going to sit you up.

[Sal Destefano]

No, Mike Israel is right on the same page. He did. Okay. He's like, leg extensions, like, yeah, they're fine. He goes, but they're not a big deal. Blah, blah, blah. And he goes, you know what's better? Sissy squats.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

He was promoting sissy squats.

[Doug]

Good man.

[Sal Destefano]

Which I remember we're not on an island. I mean, 10 years ago, when we brought it up, nobody, nobody.

[Doug]

Not only that, but we just recently ranked exercises and we got this. All this pushback over leg extensions, like, get out of here for.

[Sal Destefano]

So I started thinking about. I started thinking about, like old school exercises that nobody does anymore. Yeah. And I'm going to say one. I know you did them before Adam. Remember 21s for biceps?

[Doug]

Of course.

[Justin]

Yeah, I did. I did those.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude. So I did them today in the gym. It's great.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, so for people don't know what 21s are is. You start at the bottom. It's barbell curl. You start at the bottom, you come up halfway for seven reps, then the next. Then you go up all the way and you come down halfway for seven reps. And then you do seven full reps. Yeah. And so as a young kid, I did them because bodybuilders did them.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Sal Destefano]

Now experience understands. I'm like, I know why these are valuable. It's including an isometric hold in different positions throughout the whole. Yeah, yeah. It's not just doing a bunch of curls. It's like I have to pause and then pause.

[Doug]

You know, the last.

[Sal Destefano]

And it was a great feel.

[Doug]

The last time I did an arm thing like that, that was. Who was it? On our show. I want to give credit to the doctor that we had. Bodybuilder doctor guy that we had a long, long time ago. This is long before Israel tells. And he introduced clusters to me.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, cluster sets.

[Doug]

And I did those after he left. And I went, whoa, that's cool. I hadn't, I hadn't done cluster sets, at least not appropriately. And I, I forget what the protocol was. You go.

[Sal Destefano]

And then you rest like 15 seconds.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You squeeze out a couple more.

[Doug]

Yes. Because you can do a significantly higher weight.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

Than you would do for something that high of repetitions. And just that, that little 15 second rest. And just the pump that I got from the.

[Justin]

Was just surprising. How you can recover. Yeah, just a little bit.

[Doug]

Oh, man, what a. What a. What a great. You know, also, though, in line with that talk, like, I'm. I'm not there right now. Like, you're at.

[Sal Destefano]

It would be a waste of time for you. Yes.

[Doug]

So. Yes. So it's like, so important to talk about that because I know as a young guy, I hear this and I'm like, oh, this is what I'm missing.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

And then I'm. I'm skipping out on, like, some of the fundamentals, and it's like, I'm not even in a rhythm enough. I'd say I'm in a. I'm in a good rhythm right now. I'm on two months or so, give or take, of consistency and on diet training, all the things. But I'm so back at baby fundamental phase, you know, I'm saying, like, well, even.

[Sal Destefano]

Even if you ask me, I never miss workouts. How. When am I going to do 21s again? I'm not going to be doing it every time.

[Justin]

You know what the relevance is? Funny that you mentioned that I did do 21s, but I immediately think of things, stupid things I did that were like. It was more like barbell complexes, you know, where I would just stack them all, you know, back to back to back. And it was just, you know, that's sort of the. The performance end of, you know, one of my stupid.

[Sal Destefano]

One of my favorite things to do back. I don't work out with anybody, but back in the day, every once in a while, I'd grab one of my trainers or my fitness managers.

[Doug]

When I was managing hand off back and forth, I used to love that.

[Sal Destefano]

That's like, I do as many as.

[Doug]

I can do and I hand it.

[Sal Destefano]

To you and we just go back and until we die, it's like, it's.

[Justin]

Just fun, you know, it's like you go beat up your buddy.

[Doug]

Honest. Okay. That is the. To me, that's the most valuable part of it for someone who's been training as long as you have. And consistent as you have is like, is that part. It's like it's not the. The bedrock or the foundation to what you do. And it's not going to put an inch on your arms or any of the stuff that all the muscle magazines would sell. Sell you on, you know, because, you know, what I did is I remember making a mistake as a kid is like, oh, you read it in the magazine or you hear it, and then.

[Sal Destefano]

Now that you Add all.

[Doug]

You do all the things or. Now that's the thing I do all the time. And it's just like, it's kind of.

[Justin]

Just seen where you, what you can tolerate, you know, in the beginning, there's a lot of like discovery in that and exploration. And so I feel like there's, I don't know, I try not to deter that too much, especially with like young athletes and people that are trying to figure out where their line is, you know. And so like doing some techniques like that, it helps to kind of gauge.

[Sal Destefano]

That for what's the most insane, like obviously inappropriate routine that you've ever done for yourself, like fitness wise, like, what's.

[Justin]

The crazy, crazy shit?

[Sal Destefano]

Of course you have. But can you think of. I have in my head some of the craziest things I did. Like there was a period of time there where I was like, you know what? I've never done a double split routine. And so I did a full on like Arnold Schwarzenegger style. You hit in the AM and the pm, you come back and it's six days a week. And I did it for as long as I could until the signs of over training were so up.

[Justin]

We did like two hour weight training, like heavy, intense power cleans, squat, you know, bench, over everything in the morning. And then we did practice, you know, in the middle of the day and then we did practice in the evening.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And we did that for at least like two weeks.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh my God, he's taking so much.

[Justin]

Yeah, I was in. I remember just having to go into the ice bath just to maintain my body.

[Doug]

I, I would, I would, I would say the same thing that you did. In fact, this was also during the time too where we would. I got up, I was motivated with one of my other trainer buddies. We were like early 20s and we did this, this double split routine and I, we would train like 5, 6 in the morning, really hard too. And then I go in the midday and just lay in my bed. Right.

[Sal Destefano]

Big, big old meal recover. Yeah.

[Doug]

Just lay there for like four hours. He was not even sleepy, just laying there, you know what I'm saying? Trying not to move, you know what I'm saying? So I can be ready for my 8 o' clock workout where we would train hard. Again, the reason why that's so memorable to me and I'd say it's so inappropriate is I remember this is a capital McKee, a leg day so hard and bad that I stepped off the curb and I fell.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

My legs were so destroyed that the Stepping off the curb was enough for. I literally fell to the ground and I went, this is.

[Sal Destefano]

You know. And of course, we're like, yeah, that was a good one. You know what's fun? You know? Yeah. Looking back, it was stupid. It was crazy. Thank God. It hurt myself. But there was a. There was a fun in that. Yeah. There was fun with being naive.

[Doug]

Well, the most.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, like, we were clueless. It was just. It was like, you talk to your buddy and you're, like, so psyched.

[Justin]

I can't move.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, bro. We would talk with you, like, we're going to do this thing. I think we're going to work out.

[Doug]

I think the most valuable part about it because. And I think about, like, kind of the era we're in right now. We're in this really interesting, you know, information era, and there's a lot of really young guys with a lot of, like, read all the studies and have all the sciences. But, like, we also did a lot of the stupid stuff for a long time. And so that. The ability to speak from that experience and under the mindset. So that's the most valuable part to me was like, I look back and there's obviously these regrets of, like, God, if I would have just simplified my routine. Yeah. But because I didn't and I did so much the wrong way for so.

[Justin]

Long, it humbles you a bit. I feel like I. I could read that with somebody who never did that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin]

You're like, oh, you just stayed in the books and did everything, like, you know, perfect.

[Doug]

Yeah. So that's what I mean. I think. I think it gives you another level of communication that that person can't give.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Doug]

Because not only was I dumb enough and crazy enough to do it, I also understood what was going through my mind during that time and how I felt and how I thought. And like, you know, it's. It's easier to be able to convince that person because I've been there, than to just study my way, you know, give you the studies.

[Sal Destefano]

Data shows.

[Doug]

Yeah, exactly. And so that when I think of it, when I think back to those days, no regrets. I think that I go, it was if. Who would have known we'd be on a podcast. Yeah. Gave. Gave all of us that. That ability to communicate and connect to somebody who probably thinks that's a good idea. And so I think that part of it.

[Sal Destefano]

I know. And looking back, I've told the story so many times. His name was Joe. He was a family friend, chiropractor, bodybuilder. At the time, biggest dude I ever seen. And I mustered up the courage, I was probably 15 years old, to take him aside and ask him like, how did you get so big? And he looked at me, like, looked at me dead in the eyes. He goes, all right, here's what you do. You lift weights three days a week, full body, do one exercise per body part and eat a lot of chicken.

[Justin]

Eat your body weight and protein, eat.

[Sal Destefano]

A lot of eggs, eat a lot of milk, a lot of tuna fish, and then go to bed at 9 o' clock every night and wake up at 6 or 7am every day. And I remember leaving that conversation like, he won't. He lied. Why would he. Just think. Some of you just thinks I'm a kid. He was giving me the best advice of all time.

[Justin]

That's not what I read in my muscle bag, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

The best advice.

[Doug]

I mean, I think you, you are so lucky and blessed that you got the bodybuilder or the, the powerlifter guys to.

[Sal Destefano]

At least I was doing those lifts. Yeah, that was deadlifting to bring, to.

[Doug]

Bring, to bring you under your lane. Because I didn't, I didn't get that. And that I think would have really saved me a lot of time if I would have at least done that really well. I, I bought into all the information of just like, oh, this, this is just as good or better. And like, okay, this is, this. Okay, I understand the study. I see what, okay, I'm going to just do those things because I didn't like doing the other stuff. And so I fell into that trap versus I got.

[Sal Destefano]

Speaking of lifting and stuff. So I, I just, So I had this conversation with my wife, right? So she's been relatively consistent with her strength training now for a little while. There was a period there it was really hard to be consistent. But kids are older, more time. We have a great garage set up. So she's been going. And so she's also been in my faith series now quite a few times. So she's been on there together and she brings great insight, female insight. Somebody commented underneath now and it was a funny comment. They were like, it's really hard to watch her workout with such low intensity. So she got real like, what is this person saying? Or whatever.

[Justin]

Right.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

So anyway, and it made me think for a second, I'm like, I know how strong she is.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And I know when I see her work out, she goes way lighter than she could. Now I know why. There was a period of time there after she had our baby the youngest, where if she went too hard, she would hurt herself. Her body just needed time to adjust. And so I'm like, she's still. Is she still in that? I think she is. So I was. We've been worked. We worked out together a couple times, and I watched her do. I don't remember. It was like, with that new row machine that we have.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And she has a quarter on there, and she's just. I'm like, add some weight. She's like, it's fine. Like, no, no, Add some weight. She puts tens on. I'm like, you can add, like, three times as much weight. So she finally now is starting to push herself with. With. With the weight and the intensity. Dude. She responds so fast. Like, three workouts. I'm like, oh, my God, look at your arms and your delts and whatever.

[Doug]

I feel like Katrina is the same way, too. We. We did. I was. I was sharing earlier when we did a live call or what that we. I talked about how I, like, give, like, little bits of stuff, and she's been on her kick for.

[Sal Destefano]

She gets stuck at the same.

[Doug]

She totally does. She totally does. And, you know, it just. It takes one workout with me where I'm like, you could throw another 25 on there. You're fine. No, no, you're fine. I'll let you know when you're in. Like that. And then she doesn't. She's like. And she'll tell me. She's just like, message received. I knew I wasn't. I could be. There's more. There's a lot more. I could be pushing, which is so tip to me. My female clients, that was always, always very good with form, cautious guys. Was the opposite guys. The opposite guys.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm like, how many times did you.

[Doug]

Have to tell them, yeah, yeah, too heavy, bro.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, no, no.

[Doug]

Slow it down. Deeper range of motion. Come on, guy.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

Like, guys, I'm always having to back off.

[Justin]

He's very much like a guy. Like, oh, really? She's always going too hard, and I'm just like, relax. You know, she doesn't want to hear it, and she doesn't want to do mobility. And so I'm like, those are the things I'm always.

[Doug]

That's really weird that stressing with you being such the mobility guy into all that stuff that.

[Justin]

Well, she hated, like, jumping and a lot of the things when I used to, like, train and. And I had, like, that athletic background, I would sneak in, you know, some of These, like, type of athletic moves, and she hated those. So I'd like, kind of adjust the, the workouts and whatnot. But yeah, she, she hated every time I would address any kind of, like, pattern dysfunction. And two, like, but still tells me, well, I feel it in my quads.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm like, what do you mean you.

[Justin]

Feel it in your quads? You know, I'd have to go through and like, tell her. I'm like, look, we, we need to correct this. Like, like this. The root of this is, you know, a dysfunction, the way you move. And so I'm trying. And so it's been years for me to finally, like, get in there and, and start getting her to be disciplined with, like, doing priming, you know, warm ups and doing it the right way. But yeah, it's, it's funny because she just wants to go hard, like super hard. And I think we kind of related with that.

[Doug]

I just, I just introduced this with Park City. This literally just two weekends ago, right? We were up there. I had just introduced Katrina into assisted single leg deadlifts versus stability balancing.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

So she was next to me, and I'm doing my lifts and I know, right? She's been training for a while, so she's, she's past kind of the starter phase. You know, she's time. And I know what her goals are, right? So she's like. And she's doing, I think she's holding like a 10 pound or, you know, maybe a 15 pound dumbbell. And she's like doing single leg deadlifts, like, stability, right? And, and I go, you know, you go over there and you grab that cage and you do that. You probably load that thing with like 50 pound dumbbell, right? And she's like, what do you mean? I'm. I showed, I show it to her. And she's like, of course. She went from 15, then she went to like 30. Then she went, then she's holding a 50 pound dumbbell, doing that. And, And I was like, how's your, how's your butt feel now? She's like, oh, my God. I'm like, yeah. I said, I know that's your goal, right? I said, what you were doing is not bad. I said, like, building good stability, balance. I said, love, when you get reintroduced to training again, that's a good place to start. But you've been doing this for a while now. Load that sucker. And it's. I'm like, you loading with a 50 pound dumbbell and balancing is gonna be really hard. So go ahead and Go assist yourself for that. And then she was like, oh, my God, that's awesome.

[Sal Destefano]

No, I'm having fun because my wife's got. She's got really good, like, strength genetics. She could get really strong. So. And she. I think she just forgot how to really push it. So. And now, because I trained my daughter and my niece, she'll pop in and we'll work out, and it's cool because I see that that pushes her because they'll use a weight, and of course, she has to use more just to.

[Doug]

Let the kids know.

[Sal Destefano]

And she's, like, way stronger than they are.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And so especially on back exercise, she could pull like. Like a horse. And so to see that and then to see her body change so rapidly, I'm like, yeah, all right, dude. Yeah, just right away unlocked. Yeah. It's awesome.

[Doug]

It's so good.

[Sal Destefano]

Anyway, oh, speaking of workouts and stuff, I was gonna ask you, Adam, to do this because you're the most likely. You're the most consistent besides Doug with the juve red light.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. So remember that study I brought up a while ago where they took. I love this study where they took people and they red lighted one leg.

[Doug]

Would you make me do that?

[Sal Destefano]

Well, no, I don't. You don't go that far. Okay. Okay. Well, so for people who don't know, there was a study here, there's a couple studies where they red light one leg, then they'd have them train both legs, and the leg that got red lighted actually built more muscle and strength, which is a great. Because you have a natural control. It's your. Both your legs. It's amazing. But it also increases nitric oxide. And so I would love for you to test it once.

[Doug]

Just see if I get a pump.

[Sal Destefano]

Just to see if you get a better pump on one side and maybe pick, like, an easy body part, like biceps, just red light one arm, then go do curls and see if you notice a better pump.

[Doug]

I mean, I would love to do that with my. My. My legs and see if I get a better pump that way, like, and feel it with what you're making me think right now. That would be really cool for people, is we get a lot of people that obviously, symmetry is one of our popular programs, and we have a lot of people that have asymmetry. Right.

[Sal Destefano]

We have this.

[Doug]

This imbalance on right to left, accelerating it. Yeah. So imagine if you are somebody who got one of those Dexa skin, like a really weak. And you have.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Really weak left leg or left arm. Like would it be cool to like.

[Sal Destefano]

Just make it faster?

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, wow.

[Doug]

That was not a bad thought. And pair it with symmetry. So literally follow symmetry. Use it on the less dominant side pre workout and see what happens.

[Sal Destefano]

Wow, that's interesting.

[Doug]

I know. Well, that's what just came to mind when you were saying that because that's kind of a fun way to.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, that's the thing. When you have one side that's off, you want it to balance out and you might as well get it.

[Justin]

You're really trying to just bring it up. Yeah, it's.

[Sal Destefano]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Doug]

Wouldn't that be cool?

[Sal Destefano]

Do you guys have a body part part that's harder to get a pump than others and one that gets a pump super easy. Do you guys have that? I think that's common for a lot of people, right? No, not anymore.

[Doug]

I did for sure when I was young.

[Justin]

My back like it took me a.

[Doug]

Long time to get a, to learn how to get a really good back pump.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

But for absolutely. Now I can get crazy back pump.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

But I would use it for a long time. I never knew what feeling of, you know, it wasn't deadlifts really made a difference for me on getting like feeling a full back pump.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I remember the day. This is how funny I remember the day I got my first back pump. The day. I can tell you. I can tell you it was summertime. I was 16 in my backyard watching predator and I was in my backyard and it was the first time I did pull over supersetable pull ups. And I remember I came down and I felt my lats over to pull ups of course.

[Doug]

Oh yeah. So mine was the deadlift to a lap pull down. That comes a great. That combination. I had never felt an entire. My entire. I felt my back from top to bottom just complete and that. And you know, this is what a great. Because there's a bit of an isometric part of a deadlift. Right. You're keeping your, your spine stabilized in that move. Even though the, the movement isn't an isometric. Considered an isometric. You're keeping yourself in this isometric position. That's so isometric is so good to getting really connected to a part of.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Doug]

And so I think you have to.

[Sal Destefano]

Activate the hell out of everything.

[Doug]

Yes. And so was what happened was like for the first time I did this great isometric contraction on the back with a, with a deadlift. Even though I understand it's. That's not a. A isometric but that type of Contraction on the back, going over to a lap, pull down, which most people feel really good of an exercise. And that pumping the lat was just huge.

[Justin]

Deadlift to pull ups.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Well, yeah, same thing.

[Justin]

Same thing.

[Doug]

Same thing that gave me the craziest. And then from that point on, now.

[Sal Destefano]

For me, I can get a back pump. Pump super easy, but nothing like delts. I could get a. My delts will get so pumped I can't move. It hurts. And that'll take me one set. It's just that I get it. Yeah. Instant.

[Doug]

That wasn't one. That took me longer, too. Back delts and then glutes were probably the three that took the longest, but once I. Once I unlocked it. You unlocked.

[Sal Destefano]

Justin gets glue pumps.

[Justin]

I get pumps all over.

[Doug]

I mean, I think. I don't think he even knew what pump was until. Until we started working out together. It's happening.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I just don't like it on my floor.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

He trained for strength for so long. When he started working out with me and stuff like that, I think it.

[Sal Destefano]

Was the first time he's like, I did.

[Justin]

Honestly, I think I told you about that. I was like, oh, my God, I feel so, like, huge and wrong right now.

[Sal Destefano]

Wrong. That's the best. This feels.

[Justin]

I know. Well, you know, it just felt dysfunctional, you know, because you're, like, stiff almost.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't care. It's the only thing I like now. The only thing I like better than the pump, because the pump is just. It's up here. It's the best feeling ever. The only thing I like better than that is lifting more weight than I've ever lifted before. I just can't chase that because I'll hurt myself. Yeah. So the pump is what I'll.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm always settled for. I'm with you on that. There's nothing that the. The nothing. The pump is such an amazing. I mean, aside from the. The aesthetic look part of it, it's just. It's the feeling of, like, all that. The blood pressure flowed in that.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like looking at your potential.

[Doug]

You know what I mean?

[Sal Destefano]

I can look like this.

[Doug]

I can get there and stay there. As a young. As a young kid, I used to always think I was like, man, if I could just. That was. I remember saying that to myself, if I could just look like that. If I could just. Just look like that T shirt. That's like the rich. That's the rich guy, though, chasing the dollar amount. You know what I'm saying? It's the Same thing. Because I know for sure when I was 20, saying that, I passed that kid up a long time ago. And I kept saying that for a while.

[Sal Destefano]

I know it doesn't go away.

[Justin]

Yeah, it is my chest, the one one, like, substantially. It would, like, get bigger than anything else.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah, you're. You're peck heavy for sure.

[Doug]

Hey, what did you think of the talking about exercises, stuff like that? The. The reaction video, Brett Control, which I thought was really funny.

[Sal Destefano]

I was gonna ask, bro, how far these reaction videos gonna go. There's a reaction of a reaction.

[Doug]

Hey, I wanted Justin because Justin has the more comedic personality to do a reaction video to that video. Because it was.

[Justin]

That's what I'll do. I. Because initially they had me doing those. I don't know if you guys knew this, but I was just like. Like, I don't do these.

[Doug]

Yeah, this is not my job.

[Justin]

See?

[Doug]

So you should do that because I wanted you to do it, and this is what I want you to do. Be like, I have nothing to contribute to this. Like, that's how I wanted you to do it. Because it was. It was Joe De Franco reacting to another trainer who was commenting on a revert, a PR reverse lunch.

[Sal Destefano]

And then it was Brett Contreras reacting to Joe.

[Justin]

To Frank Franco's reaction of that reaction.

[Doug]

Yeah, so I wanted you to do a reaction to just like, no, we could do.

[Sal Destefano]

We could do one of you.

[Justin]

I'll do one to that same video.

[Doug]

That's right. That's what I mean. That's. I wanted you to do that.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, listen, you react to it, and then you react to your own reaction and then react again to it. Like, 15 of the hell he's talking about.

[Doug]

But I bring it up, though, because I actually thought it was a. I love that. I mean, this is just highlights how much respect that we have for Joe DeFranco and his. I mean, there's. I don't know. I definitely. Maybe two hands for sure. One hand. Maybe two hands I count on, like. Like, the trainers and coaches that I have so much respect, and, like, the ones that have been an admiration for.

[Justin]

Them, It's a smaller group than I would have thought initially. You know, as a young trainer, you look up to a bunch of coaches out there, and then, you know, even going through that whole process, it's. It literally is like 10 people.

[Doug]

And that's no disrespect to the. The good trainers that follow us.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't want.

[Doug]

I don't want you to. There's a lot of we have a lot of good trainer friends or good trainer. No, there's another course, there's another level.

[Justin]

These are the top.

[Doug]

The way, the way that Joe, the way that Jo reacts to that video is just so good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you, you could tell. I mean he just, he knows what he's talking about, but he also has experience with what he's talking about.

[Doug]

Yeah. So he's just a really passionate, really good job of, of, of the nuance. Like, hey, I understand where this, this guy is coming from for these reasons. Let me, let me show you where we have done that and why. How the thought process, all the things and just his, his ability and it. In so much of personal training has been lost in my opinion to, in these, you know, 30 second, one minute reels that, that have gone viral, gotten popular and, and personal training, it's so much more nuanced than that. I mean I feel like everything that somebody says, this is the way I can make an argument for. No, it's not so like because of that, it's. There isn't this like this guy or the way they do it or the way this person says is always right. There's, there's almost always an exception to. And if you don't know all of.

[Sal Destefano]

That stuff, that's why the best coaches have both education and experience.

[Justin]

Yep.

[Sal Destefano]

And I can tell Brett Contreras is.

[Justin]

Like, you need the application to go with it.

[Sal Destefano]

Brett Contreras, very knowledgeable, also lots of experience. That's why I respect his opinion. You know, Joe DeFranco is another one, which I consider. Joe DeFranco.

[Doug]

Ben Bruno's really good.

[Sal Destefano]

Ben Greeno is great.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You can tell Ben Bruno's trained a lot of everyday regular people.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Just by the way he communicates.

[Doug]

Yeah. And I just, just shout out to those. There's lots of other good coaches, but those three coaches, their, their, their knowledge, both the, the, the science and application is just.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Doug]

Incredible. And it's not a couple years, it's decades.

[Sal Destefano]

No, it's 20, 30 years.

[Doug]

Yes. Of doing that. And you can tell when they communicate something. And I just, I love to see content like that. And those guys should be, they're, they're big, but they should be even bigger than what I mean they've gotten to that point on social media. Social media is so fast and, and it has.

[Sal Destefano]

The person with the thing that goes.

[Doug]

Viral is the things that's most controversial. And it's just like that, that's the stuff that gets the algorithm going and it's like, man, our. Our industry or, I mean, our space isn't that like, it's. Talking to an individual is so unique to that individual. And there's so many times where I tell one person this thing and another person something totally different because there's so many variables that. That come into this is why I gotta.

[Sal Destefano]

I gotta listen. I gotta just pump the tires of our coaches that we don't have a lot of coaches that work for us. So people listening, like it's on purpose. We're trying to grow as fast as we can. We have more people that we can service. Obviously, we have millions of listeners, but we don't want bad coaches. And so we hire based off of character and, you know, purpose and some experience. And I tell you, man, I'm so impressed with our coaches. They. They were good when they came in.

[Justin]

They're sponges, man.

[Sal Destefano]

But six months later or eight months later, we're not talking years later. It's like they have experience of four or five years. Yeah.

[Justin]

Like, some of our coaches downloaded 10 years of experience.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm telling you, some of our coaches, you know, I remember we hired them wasn't that long ago. It was less than a year ago. Because we don't have. We just started this. And I'm listening to them coach and watching their technique and how they're applying. And I'm like, you already have. You're already talking like a trainer with. With. With five years of experience in less than a year. It's amazing.

[Doug]

Off air. I share with you guys, like, how impressed I was. Been hanging around here later. We have. Obviously we have clients now that come in here late at night and stuff. Right. Typically after 5pm People get off work and they train. And so there's been times where I'm here and just. I can tell by the way a client warms up, how good of a train.

[Sal Destefano]

I know.

[Doug]

And I'm like watching the. The. The priming movements that these clients are on their own.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin]

So.

[Doug]

And I'm like. And I'm sitting at. I'm sitting at our counter over here. And I'm like, what? I'm like. And I had to go to Kyle. I'm like, who is. Whose trainer is. Who's training that client? Who's training that client?

[Justin]

Like, we remember how hard it was just to give him. To buy into that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

So I'm so impressed.

[Sal Destefano]

I wish I. Man, I feel. I watch them. They're so good. I feel so blessed. I've never worked with so many gifted coaches, but I think back to when I first became a trainer. I was so hungry. I loved it. Man, could you imagine working environment like this with. With. With how they're getting coached and trained and what they're doing? Incredible.

[Doug]

I mean, I feel like Justin's experience the closest thing to that out of all of us, like, because he got an opportunity to.

[Sal Destefano]

He worked with some good trainers. Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

He got a chance to be at a high level private studio. Although I would still make the argument that these guys are better.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Doug]

You know, because they're.

[Justin]

I have a bias. And yes, I agree.

[Doug]

Because you did. You had an. I never got to do that. I didn't get to get to. You know, I was in Big Box gym. Then I went into leadership and, and the business side more. So, you know, of us as coaches. You guys are far better coaches and trainers than I am. And so I, I missed out on that opportunity to. To work with like a collection of like, you know, five, six other.

[Sal Destefano]

I had, I had great experience working with people outside of fitness. So like, physical therapy, functional medicine, that kind of stuff. But Justin, he was surrounded by like, athletic, very good athletic, top tier trainers for sure. Which is cool because I learned a lot from Justin. We first got together, which is pretty cool.

[Doug]

So that's probably why it all works too.

[Justin]

It does, yeah.

[Doug]

That's the reason everybody's so different.

[Sal Destefano]

I got to tell this story before I forget. My daughter Dalia, my three year old daughter, I was playing with her the other day and this is just. Just gives you a little. Little peer into her personality. So she comes up to me, which by the way, when your daughter comes up and says, come play with me, you say yes every time. So she's like, I'm dropping everything, but she grabs my hand. Papa, come play with me. So I'm like, done. Let's go. So I walk with her. She goes, sit down. It's a restaurant. I'm like, okay. So I sit down and she's like. And she tells me what to say. She's like, ask me. Tell me you're hungry. Oh, man, I'm so hungry. And so she's like putting pretend food together. And she's like, tell me you want eggs and toast. So I'm like, hey, could I please have some eggs and toast? She goes, no, I'm eating it. And she's like, like, what's happening right now? Like, I just, I just sat there while she pretended to eat. You can't have anything.

[Justin]

You don't watch me eat.

[Sal Destefano]

So, like, okay, I'M like, what do I do now? She's all nothing, like, okay, I don't understand this game. She just want to tell me no.

[Doug]

For sure.

[Sal Destefano]

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[Announcer]

Our first caller is Alexa from New York.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi, Alexa.

[Doug]

How you doing?

[Sal Destefano]

Alexa, Hi.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Hello. Nice to see you guys. Thanks for having me on.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it. How can we help you?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I have a bit of context, so I guess I'll start with that. But I, I guess I'll. My real question is, my broad question is, is it harder to lose body fat and maintain progress with a more petite frame? So I'm five foot tall, which has been a struggle. And I think I'm doing everything that I'm supposed to be doing, but I just feel like I'm working so much harder just because I'm a lot shorter. So I recently got a DEXA scan and I was at 15% body fat, which is pretty low. But I don't feel like it looks low just because I'm so petite. So I feel like because I'm five foot tall, I just have to work harder to appear leaner. My calories have to be cut so much more because my BMR is lower just because I'm shorter. So right Now I'm maintaining 1600-1800 calories a day, which I feel like is pretty high. But I'm super hungry, so I'm scared to cut it even lower just to maintain the physique that I have right now. I really just want to maintain what I've got going on, but it doesn't feel sustainable. The things that I'M currently doing lifting four times a week, running four times a week, maintaining 1600-1800 calories. I just feel like I have to work super, super, super hard to maintain whatever I've got going on now.

[Sal Destefano]

Good question. Good question. Can I be just straight with you?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

You're truth. You're tripping. You're tripping hard. So here's the deal. It feels like you're working so hard because you're doing a lot of the wrong stuff. I also think, actually, I know that you don't see yourself accurately, so it's a bit of a distorted perception of how you look. 15% is not just lean, it's a little too lean to maintain. You'll typically get hormone imbalances if you're not already experiencing some of those side effects. If you want your body to look different at your first off, your size makes no difference. It's all relative. And I've trained young ladies at your size who've gotten their metabolisms in the high 2000s, which I think you could definitely do. So I'll give you advice in just a second. But I think what you're looking for is more muscle, not less body fat.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Because muscle is what gives shape, it's what gives sculpt. And especially at a body fat percentage between 15 to 18%, it's what's going to give you the look that I think you're looking for. It's muscle, not less body fat.

[Doug]

And also the ability to eat way more calories.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And the reason why you're. The reason why you're hungry is because you're. You're starving yourself and you're probably not feeling great with all those workouts and running on such low calories. So there's a couple things, couple things I would advise you to do. I would cut the running down to two days a week. Do you like the stamina from running or are you doing it for fat loss? Let me ask you that first.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

So I'm actually training for a half marathon, which is fun, so I'm doing that. I do enjoy it. I do enjoy training for endurance. So all of these things I really enjoy. I'm not really doing it for fat loss, but, yeah, it's fun for me.

[Sal Destefano]

It's conflicting.

[Justin]

Yeah, it is.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Because you're like, I want to perform with a half marathon, but I also want to look leaner, and I also got to be careful with my calories, and those are all conflicting. How important is the half marathon to you? Can we not do it? Or is it, like a big deal for you?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Well, it's on Sunday.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

So after that, I have no running races in the books.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, so after Sunday, don't do it again. Cut your running down to. If you like to run, cut it down to two days a week. If you can get rid of it. I would get rid of it and just do something a little easier. And I would bump your calories. Yeah. And build some muscle. The look that you're looking for is going to come from more muscle, not more body fat. Stop weighing yourself. Don't worry about the scale. But, like, if I were to. If I had you increase your calories and had you gain five pounds of muscle, I guarantee you would look in the mirror and be like, whoa, that's the look that I was looking for. But I'm also looking at your pictures. You look lean.

[Doug]

Yeah, you look great.

[Sal Destefano]

You got to. Really? Yeah. You're not seeing yourself accurately. Yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I'm just wondering, how much more muscle can I build? Because I feel like I've gotten. I was really skinny at one point, so I built muscle. And then I had my DEXA scan. So my DEXA scan results said that I gained about 7, 000 pounds of skeletal muscle. So I'm not sure. I guess if I eat more, I could probably gain more.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, for sure.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. No, you. You. You'll. You'll build more muscles for sure. You got a great base, too. I mean, you. If you folk. I mean, you look like you could compete. You. You totally could focus on increasing calories, building muscle. Just be okay with the. Be comfortable with increasing a little bit of body fat on the way there, and then know that you have the skills to. To come right back to where you're at. But you're. You're. You're more than enough lean, but you're too lean to build muscle right now. Yeah, you're so lean, your body's not going to build muscle at that leanness. It needs to put on a little bit of body fat. This is similar to the journey I'm taking Corinne on right now. Like her, she's so lean right now that I need her to increase her body fat so we can build muscle. It's just not going to build her body that lean. And she's at 17. You're at 15. You're even leaner. I'm constantly telling her, we got to keep. Increase calories. Yes, you're gonna feel a little fluffy. Yes, you're gonna feel like you're putting a little body Fat on, but we need to. In order to go build muscle. And so that's what you need to do right now, is focus on that. So as soon as the marathon is over, you need to switch over to the concept of, like, increasing calorie, putting some. Putting some body fat percentage and muscle on. And then what will happen is you'll put. You'll land somewhere in the mid 2000 calories wise, then you should be able to cut down to 20, 22 and be as lean as you are right now with eating more calories and less.

[Sal Destefano]

Work, you're gonna feel, you're gonna feel stronger, more energy, more drive. You'll feel amazing. Your strength will go through the roof. So right now you've got everything you're doing. You have a severe limiter on what your body can do because your calories.

[Justin]

Are so low, very depleted.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's like you got a speed limiter on and you're, you know, you want to go fast, but your car, you're just, you're. You're. You got a speed limiter. It's not letting you.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah, it feels like a lot of work. I'm just so scared of increasing calories just because I don't know if my. I mean, I keep thinking, focusing so much on my height, and I keep hearing, you know, five foot tall, you should have this many calories versus someone who's larger. So it's, it's definitely limiting me.

[Doug]

So of course, Melissa Wolf, who was the competitor that I trained before Corinne, the last one, she was five foot, so five foot. We got all the way up to 2, 800 calories. So she was eating 28 calories. She hit stage competing and won at. And she was eating 2200 calories.

[Sal Destefano]

That's to hit stage.

[Doug]

That was on stage. The. Her peak week. We cut down.

[Sal Destefano]

It was her body fat down. Yeah.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. She was super lean. So you, you absolutely can. But just again, like, just like I talked to Corinne, as we have the same conversation right now, is you're gonna be. You're gonna feel a little fluffy. You're gonna feel like you're holding a little bit of what. That's just water. That's just where you're at right now. We can go right back the other place really quick. Don't worry. And so you have to learn to get comfortable with that process of putting, putting size on, putting muscle on, and then know that you have the ability to come back the other direction. And the longer you can stay in that phase, the more muscle you're going to build. The faster your metabolism is going to be, and the better and healthier you're going to feel. When you lower those calories back down to, say, somewhere like 22, you'll be able to maintain the look you're wanting with more muscle on your body, with no running and have. Have what you want. But you have to first be able to kind of go through what is uncomfortable for a lot of my female competitors.

[Sal Destefano]

One thing you said, Alexa, is you're scared, so you would. And I get that. I get that personally, but also because I've worked with people like this. Have you ever worked with a coach?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

No. I am actually a certified personal trainer, so I coach myself, but I've never worked with a coach.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you'd never work to coach yourself. Take it from me. So it's always valuable. Yes. So it really helps to have a guide that you can kind of offset, you know, all that and trust and say, okay, I'm going to trust the process. I'm going to let you tell me. I'm just going to do it, not listen to myself, because I know I can, you know, be a little distorted with it.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And like I said, like, the reverse diet is going to change your life. It's going to absolutely change your life. If you're interested in working with a coach to walk you through that, you could just trust. I could have somebody call you, and we'll see, you know, where we can take that.

[Doug]

At the very least, start following Corinne, because I'm coaching her through this exact process.

[Sal Destefano]

Exactly. She's a trainer.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yes, I actually just did.

[Doug]

Okay, good.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. Well, I mean, this is the conversation we're having right now, so definitely at least do that. And then if you want, she's a coach, so she's incredible, so. And she doesn't need me for the knowledge piece of it. It's the accountability piece is why she has me. Just. Just that reminder as she's going through it. And. And, you know, just because she's an brilliant trainer doesn't mean that she doesn't get challenged with the same things. And so that'll be a great process for you to watch.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Awesome.

Appreciate it.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it.

[Doug]

All right, Alexa, thank you.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it. Thanks. All right, what do you guys think? She gonna do it or not?

[Doug]

I mean, I. She's following Corinne. I hope she reaches out to Corinne. That's what I'm hoping. Because Corinne is incredible. It's so funny. Corinne is Incredible with coaching other people.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Yet also recognizes that she needs someone to coach her through that, through that process.

[Justin]

Totally different thing.

[Doug]

And so hopefully they connect. I hope that she, you know, DMs, or messages her, and hopefully they can connect and she can. She can help her. Because this. This is the conversation.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, I think that Alexa knows what to do. I think she asked us to get kind of confirmation, but she doesn't want to.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Because of the fear.

[Doug]

It's tough.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Justin]

The psychological barrier is everything.

[Sal Destefano]

Absolutely everything. But, I mean, if she just did what we said would be. I mean, she already looks incredible. I think she's getting away with a lot of the wrong things. If she just started moving in the right direction, there'd be some incredible changes.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Announcer]

Our next caller is Vanita from Utah.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi, Vanita.

[Doug]

How you doing?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Good, thank you. This is wild. First, I'd like to thank you for all the content you've put out over the years. You've had a huge impact on my overall health and wellness, and I'm looking forward to listening for years to come.

[Doug]

Awesome.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you so much. How can we help you?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

So I'll jump in. I've been listening to you guys since 2018, and I have exclusively followed your programs. Unfortunately, I don't feel like I have the strength or aesthetic that might be expected from eight years of consistent strength training. And my best guess for why that is is a failure to adjust volume and intensity for life stressors. That being said, stressors have reduced significantly for me for the past couple years, and I have reached a point of balance where I have a pretty healthy lifestyle. I feel like I've achieved the 80% that you guys talk about. My focus so far has been longevity, sustainability, and muscle gain. But I'm about to turn 29, which means I have one year left in my 20s, and I want to really take advantage of my youth to make significant gains. My goal is to record PR numbers and photos when I turn 30 so that when I'm old and frail, I can look back at that and be proud. So my questions are, is this goal worth pursuing, or would you recommend something else? And would I have to sacrifice the balance I've found to achieve my goal, or are there effective tweaks that I could make to my current lifestyle?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, good question.

[Doug]

This is great. The only thing I would tweak or change is that the idea of looking back when you're older as if this thing that you. Some of my strongest, most beautiful, awesome clients were my clients that were 70 years old and still strong as. So do not be fooled that you can continue to gain strength and build muscle for a long time. And so don't think of it as this moment where you're going to get in great.

[Justin]

It's not just this window, right?

[Doug]

Yeah, it's gonna. If you make fitness, your lifestyle like it sounds like you want for the rest of your life, you're going to be very surprised when you get in your 60s and 70s of how great you feel, look and move and all the things.

[Sal Destefano]

So yeah, Vanita, it's. It's not that this is the reason why you should do but as. As you maintain your fitness and your health, it becomes more impressive the older you get, not less impressive. So, you know, a fit, a really fit 29 year old is pretty impressive. A really fit 69 year old, way more impressive. Now, that's not why you should do it. But just again, just to echo what Adam's saying is, you keep looking, there's more to look forward to as you keep doing this. So let's go back. Okay. You said you had a tough time managing stressors, which tells me maybe you overtrained during that period of time or went after it a little too hard. You're a mom. How many kids you have?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I have two kids, three and five.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, they're still young. Good for you. And Sibo, you got that already handled?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yes. Haven't had symptoms for over a year.

[Sal Destefano]

Awesome. Oh, good. I also see I'm looking at your question. Is it okay if I bring up stuff on your question that you didn't talk about?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So you were in the military? In the marines, yes. Okay, so. So I'm getting a better picture now of the kind of. Kind of personality you have, which sounds to me when I have ex military, they tend to overdo it. They tend to push harder than they need to to accomplish, you know, the best results type of deal. You said things a little more balanced now. So I'm assuming sleep and schedule and everything looks a lot better.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. What does your activity level look like? And tell me a little bit about your nutrition.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Let's see. So for more context, I'm five eight, 135 pounds, currently hit about six to 8,000 steps a day. I do have a desk job, so I have to intentionally work to get that. The past three programs I've done are Symmetry, Muscle Mommy Maps 15, Performance advance, and right now I'm finishing up Muscle Mommy 15, and I'm pretty consistent with those.

[Sal Destefano]

Awesome.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

My Diet is whole foods about 80% of the time and I consistently reach 110 to 130 grams of protein. I don't currently track my macros and calories, but would guess I'm around 220, 200 to 2500 and my sleep is about seven to eight hours a night.

[Sal Destefano]

You're kicking butt.

[Doug]

You are kicking butt. And I think I'm curious to how you feel in the 15 minute protocol versus the other programs because I think that probably really suits, suits your lifestyle because you've added too that you work. So working having kids like that, you got a lot going on. How does your body feel training in 15 when you compare it to the other programs you've done?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Well, I'll be honest, I heard about your 15 programs and I was skeptical. It took me months to try it, but when I did 15, performance advanced, it has been one of my favorites. My body feels less tired after my workouts and I liked it so much I went to muscle mommy 15. I think think I was surprised at how well the 15 minutes works. So it's more like 30 minutes. I do the mobility, but, but I really like it.

[Sal Destefano]

Are you getting stronger on it a.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Little bit, Honestly, mostly upper body. I mentioned in my, in my question, I just haven't made a ton of strength gains over the past few years and I feel like I'm missing something.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, tell me about your lifts. Give me an idea of how strong you are.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah. So squat about 1:45, deadlift 1:50, bench 75. And these are doing like five by fives.

[Doug]

Oh, and that's five reps. Five reps. You're pretty strong.

[Sal Destefano]

Strong.

[Doug]

You're pretty strong.

[Sal Destefano]

You're strong.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. You're pretty strong.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I like, I like.

[Doug]

And you're 135, you said?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You're good.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, let me ask you a question. Be honest with me. Okay. Would other people say you look like you work out?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I mean, I, I don't look like.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm not built, but I don't care what you think. Do other people, what do other people say? Are they like, man, you work out, you look fit?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I don't know. I think they'd be more likely to say I'm just skinny or I'm slender.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, well, change your answer now.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, you could also, I mean, you, you look lean. You, you could go on a, like a bulk and actually intentionally try and get stronger. And I, I can tell you, you have room to, you could put on weight you could put on body fat and you're totally fine.

[Sal Destefano]

How tall are you getting? Five, eight.

[Doug]

Yeah. Well, you're lean.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah. 135. You're lean.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You could eat more. I would go reverse diet, and I like Mass 15 power lift. If you want to see some strength gains mass 15 power lift will get you hitting some PRs.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You have access to a home gym?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah, I do.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

But really go on a control bulk. Like, try and add calories to diet. Make it an. I know you don't really track right now, but get an idea of where you're at. And if you don't track, then what you would do is to add a shake or add a meal every day. That's a balance.

[Sal Destefano]

Like an extra meal?

[Doug]

Yeah, just every day. That's it. Just add that. Don't change anything else. Follow the new program and intentionally go after bulking. Stay away from the scale. Don't let that get in your head of what's going on. Just trust the process. You add good, good calories, you're gonna get stronger.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And you'll build more muscle and you'll look more muscular and look like you lift more weights. If that's what you want to do, you absolutely can.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you know what your body fat percentage sits at roughly?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Um, I did the in body scan at the gym. It said 21%, but I guess I'm a little higher.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you could. You could get. You could gain probably on a reverse diet with power lift. I mean, a good five to eight pounds of lean body mass. Yeah, I think you'll gain. And that'll give you the look, I think more the look that you're looking for.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

So when you say add, are you thinking like a 300 calorie snack or.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep. 3,3400-calorie high protein meal. Yep. Yep. So if you know what you generally eat throughout. So this is how I would coach. This is how I coach people who don't track. You generally know what you eat day in and day out. Most of your meals are kind of similar. There's always those off days, but for the most part, you probably always have kind of this for breakfast. It's okay. You get an extra meal that you know is gonna have 35 grams of protein, some carbs, and that's your extra meal. And you just add that to your day. So now you've added 300 calories.

[Doug]

Another way to do it that I love to do it too, is just add 2 ounces to every time you eat meat. So instead of you eating a six ounce thing of meat, make each serving better, you make eight. So add two ounces of meat that you eat to every meal. So whatever that portion size normally is, go 2 ounces bigger on all of it and you'll be fine. It'll bump those calories naturally that way.

[Sal Destefano]

This is actually pretty simple.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Okay, you make it sound easy.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, the hard part is going to be trusting it. But I think you already did that with mass 15. But yeah, add a few hundred calories. Go mass 15 power lift. Next. How far are you in the current program?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I'm just finishing up Muscle mommy right now.

[Sal Destefano]

Perfect. Yeah, Mass 15 power lifts would be.

[Doug]

Perfect for it is. It's a really simple answer. If we don't see the results, if we, if you're not getting then, then I'd want to, to get deeper into the tracking and seeing exactly where you're at so I can adjust that. But if you have a pretty good general idea of what you eat on a regular basis and you simply just either add a meal or you just add 2 ounces to every single serving of meat, it'll take care of that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Doug]

You'll, it'll, it'll do what it needs to do right there and that'll be enough additional calories and you'll build.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

So I, I typically do the six week mini cuts and mini bulks that you guys talk about. Are you thinking this would be longer than that?

[Sal Destefano]

Yep. Yeah, I keep you on. I'd go all the way through power lift in, in this bulk.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Okay. Is that three months?

[Sal Destefano]

Three months, that's it. Yeah. Three months. And we're looking for strength gains. Do you supplement? Do you take supplements?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Vitamin D in the winter? That's it.

[Sal Destefano]

You don't take creatine?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Not right now.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah, start taking creatine. Yeah, right away. Right away. Five grams a day. Yeah, that's going to be great for what you're looking for. Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. All right.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear, I'd love to hear back from you after we.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, let's get you back on.

[Doug]

We're going to send you the maps. 15 power lift. And I'd love to hear where your lifts go.

[Sal Destefano]

You want to get back on in three months?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah, I'd love to.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you. We'll call you back.

[Doug]

Let's do it.

[Sal Destefano]

All right.

[Caller]

All right, thank you.

[Sal Destefano]

Bye bye. Yeah, I had to read the rest of her question. I was like, okay. Ex marine.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know about you guys, but when I've trained, dudes follow the same pattern when they're ex military, but especially women. When I train ex military women, they're like, well, they're like athletes, but just extreme.

[Doug]

Yeah, they're like athletes.

[Sal Destefano]

They're like, this is too easy. I'm like, no, no, no.

[Doug]

This is rough. The same type of. Exactly the same, but similar type of.

[Sal Destefano]

Of.

[Doug]

They're. They train a lot of mindset. Yes, they train a lot, which is.

[Sal Destefano]

Endure, which is what you want.

[Doug]

Endure. Don't break. Don't like that. That they. So they.

[Sal Destefano]

So what?

[Doug]

Yeah, they, they build these incredibly resilient mindsets. But, you know, resiliency isn't the best attribute when trying to sculpt and build a body. It's just not. I mean, let's be smart. Yeah, exactly.

[Sal Destefano]

There's.

[Doug]

There's a smarter way to do it. And so, yeah, she's 1, 1135 5. She's doing those numbers already.

[Justin]

Move to the 15 protocol.

[Doug]

She goes to a legit, a legit bulk and, and really try and bulk and get strong.

[Sal Destefano]

And I put, I'd put 10 pounds of muscle on her. Yeah, I know. Oh, yeah.

[Announcer]

Our next caller is Kaden from West Virginia.

[Sal Destefano]

Kaden, what's happening?

[Doug]

What up, Kaden?

[Caller]

How are you guys today?

[Doug]

Good, man. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. I just want to say thank you for taking my call today. This really means a lot to me.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it, dude.

[Doug]

What you got for us, buddy?

[Sal Destefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller]

I'm just gonna read my email here, so. All right, so. So here's my situation. I'm 19 years old. I'm a mechanic. I work around 50 hours a week. I'm on my feet a lot, averaging like 15 to 20,000 steps a day. And I train in a powerlifting style. I lift five to six days a week. My goal is to put on lean, lean muscle without extra weight. With that level of daily activity, what would you recommend for my calorie intake to support healthy weight and muscle gain?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you're. You're a machine, dude.

[Doug]

Yeah. Do you know where you're at right now, by chance? Like, how many calories you eat now?

[Caller]

I'm at like 2, 000 calories, roughly, give or take. I am. I don't know how much this really plays into it, but I am on PRT as a 19 year old and I've lost £155.

[Doug]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

When did you lose that?

[Caller]

So beginning of my freshman year. I weighed 300 pounds.

[Sal Destefano]

Wow.

[Caller]

And by the end of my. By August 8th, I actually have all these wrote down. August 8th or no, 2021, I was 300 pounds. 2024, I hit 150 pounds, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

How did you do that? Tell me about your story.

[Caller]

So if you want to be honest with me, I was. I've been a wrestler my whole life, and I was fairly decent at the heavier weight classes, but I didn't grow. I didn't grow up. I grew out is what is what I like to say. I kind of put a good bit of weight on. And then my freshman year, I went in with my brother and I didn't make weight to wrestle heavyweight. I was too heavy. I had 15 pounds over the weight limit. So right there, I started losing weight. I didn't do it the right way. I did it very like improper. I know that now. I did it kind of like the wrestler mentality. Get the weight off you as fast as you can. And that's why I'm on TRT as a 19 year old. It's from the doctor. My pituitary gland doesn't produce it anymore because of the weight loss. But that's really about it. I mean, I'm trying to. I probably should have wrote a lot more down about my story. I apologize there.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, no problem, dude. And you're. And let me guess here, you're afraid. You're afraid to eat more because you don't want to gain all that body fat. Fat back.

[Caller]

Yeah, Yeah, I get it. You want to be honest with you? That is the truth.

[Sal Destefano]

I get it, dude. You can. You could easily bump your calories.

[Doug]

Oh, God, yeah.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And you'll just build muscle.

[Doug]

Especially because you're on trt. You have a loud signal that your body wants to build muscle. And you're. You're under feeding it right now. You feeding it more calories. As long as you keep strength training. And we'll give you a program to follow that. I think that's more appropriate for like your activity. Activity level. But you follow that program and you eat about 500 more calories to start with a day.

[Caller]

And do you think like 2500 at.

[Sal Destefano]

Least just to start.

[Doug]

To start.

[Sal Destefano]

We'll get you up to 3,000.

[Doug]

We're gonna get you up higher than that. That's you. Okay, Go right, right to 25. And you start following the program we send you. And you're gonna build muscle.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you like. You like powerlifting style training? Because I can send you mass power lift.

[Caller]

Yeah, I love power I like being there for a while, too. Like, I like spending time at the gym, if that makes sense.

[Sal Destefano]

Long rest period, longer lifts.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm gonna send you mass power lifts. Yep. And bump your calories 500. Yep. And in six weeks, I'd bump you up again. And you're just gonna get strong, dude. But.

[Caller]

Thank you, guys.

[Sal Destefano]

But do it controlled, okay. Because here's the other side. Sometimes what happens, especially with a kid, is you go on a. You start to bump your calories, you feel good, and then you go loose with it and crazy. None of the dirty bulk stuff.

[Doug]

Yeah. Do you.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Are you. Do you have a Facebook profile?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. I'm in the private forum.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, good.

[Doug]

So you. So use that. So use that to stay in touch with us. So as you go through this, add the 500 calories, like Sal saying, and then probably a month to six weeks, we're gonna bump you again. Just keep us posted on how you're feeling, what you notice. But you should see strength gains, and you should start to put muscle on in that first month for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

How do you. Are you live at home or you live on your own?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, I live at home.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, good for you. All right, man. How strong are you? Tell me your lifts.

[Caller]

So my max squat last time I really maxed out was. It's been a couple months, but it was 375. The bench was 245, and the deadlift was. I'm kind of like Justin here. My squats way better than my deadlift. My deadlift was feel your pain, dude. 325.

[Sal Destefano]

You're strong. We're gonna get you pulling over 400 pounds. Not bad.

[Doug]

That's not really bad.

[Caller]

I would love to pull up for £400.

[Doug]

You will. You're only 19, dog.

[Sal Destefano]

And you're. And you're eating 2,000 calories.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Wait till you got to get them up.

[Doug]

Wait till. Yeah. We bump these calories and.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah, we'll send you the program. Bump your calories 500, six weeks. If you feel good, bump it into the five.

[Doug]

Yeah. Stay in touch with us in the forum. Let us know how you're going to the forum, and we'll. We'll guide you through this process and then love to have you come back on in three months and talk about where everything is strong, dude. Yeah. All right.

[Caller]

Thank you, guys. I really appreciate this.

[Doug]

Yeah, of course, man.

[Sal Destefano]

Keep going.

[Doug]

Yeah, great.

[Caller]

You guys have a good one.

[Sal Destefano]

You too, brother. I love it.

[Justin]

Wow, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, he lost hella weight on his own? Yeah.

[Justin]

That's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

That's great.

[Doug]

Yeah. I mean, well, yes or no, he learned a lesson. That's also what crashed his testosterone.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You know, which is interesting to me. I don't know his medical history, so I don't know.

[Doug]

Yeah, interesting. They didn't use, like, HCG first because.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, the fear is that you put a kid on testosterone, you killed it. Relying on it now, well, you just kill the fertility. Now, there's ways to maintain fertility, but that's always the fear. So doctors typically are like, whatever, but there might be more of the story. Who knows, you know, what the deal is. But. But nonetheless, if he. He's scared to add calories. He's 19, 15,000 steps a day, working out five, six days a week. I mean, he can eat 3,000 calories a day.

[Justin]

He's ready.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But 25. 25 will step him up nicely, and he should see a difference right away just from that. Cool.

[Announcer]

Our next caller is Casey and Kristen from Texas.

[Sal Destefano]

What's up, guys?

[Doug]

How you doing, man? How you been?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Hey, guys, thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. Long time. How you been?

[Hunter Woodhull]

I'm well, I wrote down my question so I wouldn't mess it up because it kind of involves my wife here. So it's okay if I just read it?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, go for it.

[Doug]

Don't get us in trouble here.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I know, right?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Me too.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Like landmine. All right, so. So my wife hasn't really been interested in training, but I want her to get into it just for the health benefits if nothing else. She suffers from various health things, and I know that it can help her because it's helped me so much. Now, to make things easier, I built a home gym. And she's agreeable to, like, a Maps 15 style commitment. So my plan here is to train her myself, teach her the movements, take it easy, but aim for consistency. So, A, what do you think of my little plan? And B, what program would you recommend? Starter maps 15, 40 plus 15. Muscle mommy 15, whatever. Now, my dream ultimately is that we're in there together doing the big compound movements. That would be awesome. But I'm open to anything, even if it's starter if need be. So, yeah, what thoughts do you guys have?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, so a lot of that's gonna be based on her ability to perform the movements and mobility. Any experience strength training? Kristen, is this totally new for you?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, Starter is a good place to start.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Then from there, maps 15, and then any of the 15 would be good. After that. And you're going to be with her, right, Casey? So you'll be able to watch her technique and form.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yes, absolutely.

[Sal Destefano]

Starter's the place to start. It'll help her understand stability and control. It's named Starter precisely because it's the best program to start with. You're still going to see progress. You're going to see yourself get stronger. It is strength training, but the exercises in there and the programming is perfect for a complete beginner.

[Justin]

You figure out body control and really how to hold position, anchor down, and all that kind of stuff is necessary to kind of build upon and add load to you as you go.

[Sal Destefano]

And then after that, mass 15 is perfect. Then you can go with any 15 after that, 50, 40 plus. You can go symmetry, power, lift, muscle, mommy. It's all good. Yep. Okay.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Would you recommend working with maybe a trainer from you guys always?

[Doug]

Well, yeah, always.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I mean, you can't. If, if you're willing to invest in something like that, it's always worth the investment.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, they're gonna, they'll individualize everything.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

That's where you're gonna.

[Doug]

And, and, and wife always does probably better listening than to the coach, than probably listening to husband too. Just, that's. I, I can't train my wife and I've got a big podcast where all I do is help train people. It's just easier. It's easier coming from.

[Sal Destefano]

It's just a hard dynamic. It's weird. Like now you're like teaching.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And typically it's not. Doesn't work well unless they're working out.

[Doug]

Together and they're both, both now, now after, after she gets momentum with the coach and gets a solid base, then I could totally see you guys working out together. Right. Like down the road. But you doing the coaching, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how dynamic you are in that situation. I know. I, I think I'm a pretty good coach and I still fail to do it to my wife. So it's just we have so many other things going on in our life and then that, that in itself is a skill set and requires that. And you know that when they mesh, don't always go great. And so I would rather have somebody else, you know, one of my trainers coach my wife than myself for that reason.

[Sal Destefano]

Just the individualization is just. That's the big thing. They'll be able to individualize nutrition guidance, exercise modifications. If there's anything that pops up, hey, this hurts. This doesn't feel right. Can I go harder? Can I add this? Take that away. They're just going to guide you the entire way through.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Gotcha.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Okay, cool. Pretty. Pretty simple. So just start with starter, and then you guys will hook us up with a trainer, hopefully.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm gonna have someone call you.

[Doug]

Yeah, we'll have someone call.

[Sal Destefano]

I'll make sure you're taken care of. You got really, really good coaches, but we'll make sure you guys get awesome.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Okay. Thanks for the time, guys.

[Doug]

Appreciate it.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Good luck.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Thanks.

[Doug]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, do you guys remember Casey?

[Sal Destefano]

I do.

[Doug]

So he's, he's got the basketball. He used to be, he used to be like a real, like, TV guy.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And then he moved to his own channel. He's been doing it for a long time. And so he's my, he's my go to.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, what you said, though, is on point. Like, couples that work out together sometimes works when they're, when they're very similar. Same focus, same kind of whatever. But when it's like, I'm gonna train you.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Type of deal. Yeah, it could, it could work, but sometimes, oftentimes it causes challenges because then it's like, like you don't want your husband telling you what to do. And. Yeah. You know, and I don't want you.

[Justin]

Met and you trained them, which is my situation.

[Sal Destefano]

You still train. Are you able to train your wife consistently?

[Doug]

I can.

[Justin]

She loves it. But I, I, I kind of don't. I don't do it very often because I have my own workout I have to do and everything. But I've tried to go back into that role, and it is a dynamic that works for us.

[Doug]

But I'll tell you how it looks for Katrina. So Katrina and I, we go to the same gym right now, and we totally don't do the same thing. We're on opposite sides of the gym. I occasionally will be walking by and see her doing a lift and, and then I'll stop and say something and I'll, and I'll, I'll comment. I'll be like, hey, you want me to show you something with that? And she'll be like, yeah. And then I'll be like, here's, here's like, your form is perfect. You're now at a level where you're more advanced. Let me show you how to engage your lats even more through that movement. And then I'll sit down and I'll demo it. And she'll be like, oh, wow. And then I walk away. It's like, that's what it looks like.

[Sal Destefano]

You. You mansplain to her.

[Doug]

No, I ask. I go, would you like me to?

[Sal Destefano]

Because if you don't, I'll just.

[Doug]

I'll just keep it walking.

[Sal Destefano]

You're fine.

[Doug]

You know what I'm saying? But she'll go, yeah, yeah, no, I. I definitely.

[Sal Destefano]

Cool, Cool.

[Doug]

Let me show you something. And then, of course. And I lead with. You're doing great already. Here's another. Here's the next level to this. And then she loves that. And so it works really well. But me coaching her for the full hour, just. It's not. You know, we do so much together. And so I think that's. I think that's hard for a coach to do that, much less somebody who's not a professional coach in that. So that you're just asking for that.

[Justin]

If you're consistency and, you know, making sure that everything is moving forward, I think having an outside coach is way more.

[Sal Destefano]

It's also hard. This is the other challenge I've had with with couples is that then it's hard to turn off because then you're. You're coaching your wife or you're coaching your husband, which is less common. But let's. Then you're at home and you're. And you're watching them eat, and they're eating something that's off the D. Now.

[Justin]

You'Re like, do I.

[Sal Destefano]

Can I comment? What do I say? And then you become the coach all the time. So this is just.

[Doug]

It's just.

[Sal Destefano]

It could be a weird dynamic.

[Doug]

Well, yeah. And then you. And you don't want to not have your workout that's set to be at said time. And just because you guys got into a tiff about something. Yes, it's like, like better to outsource that. In my opinion. It's not that it can't work, but in this, in their situation, I think the perfect world is he. She gets some coaching to get her set on her way, and then they can work out in the gym together at the same time. And. And I think they'll enjoy that process.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

[Announcer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The art the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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