2789: 5 Weird but Effective Ways to Add Muscle.

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2789 – "5 Weird but Effective Ways to Add Muscle"

Release Date: February 7, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Overview: Episode Theme & Purpose

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew dives into "5 Weird but Effective Ways to Add Muscle." Drawing on decades of coaching experience and scientific literature, Sal, Adam, Justin, and Doug discuss unconventional yet science-backed muscle-building techniques. The hosts break down why these approaches work, how to implement them, and who might benefit most. The episode mixes deep-dive fitness advice with witty banter, cultural observations, and live coaching calls from listeners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why "Weird" Muscle-Building Methods? (03:08–04:05)

• Essential Context: The hosts stress that these strategies should supplement—not replace—basic muscle-building fundamentals (i.e., train regularly, eat protein, get enough sleep).
• Quote: "They're not going to replace the staples... don't waste your time doing this stuff if you're not doing the basics." — Justin Andrews (04:05)
• These methods provide an “advanced” edge or novel stimulus, especially useful for experienced trainees or those seeking variety.

1. All-Day Cluster (a.k.a. "Cluster Day") Training (04:46–11:02)

• Description: Inspired by Soviet Olympic lifters – break a high-volume workout into “micro-workouts” performed throughout the day (e.g., 2–3 sets every 2 hours).
• Benefits: Dramatic strength gains; improved technique; increased total volume with better recovery between sets.
• Personal Experience: Justin and Adam both found surprising gains in strength and muscle when spreading big lifts across a whole day.
• Quote: "By the time I got to the later sessions, I was getting stronger, not weaker… It was really wild.” — Justin Andrews (09:44)
• Who Should Try: Works best for those with home gyms and flexible schedules; not for beginners.

2. Blood Flow Restriction (BFR) Training (11:04–15:10)

• Description: Partial restricting blood flow to limbs (e.g., with knee wraps); allows light weights to stimulate high muscle fiber recruitment and growth—originally used for rehab.
• Benefits: Fast muscle growth using lighter loads, ideal during injury rehab or as a “finisher”.
• Personal Anecdote: Sal reported adding half an inch to his calves in three weeks.
• Quote: "The fastest half inch I ever added to my calves was adding BFR… it was wild.” — Sal Di Stefano (12:26)
• Note: Use in moderation, as a supplement to main strength work.

3. Super Slow Motion Training (15:10–18:57)

• Origin: Developed during WWII as gyms lacked heavy weights—extended time under tension, e.g., 30 seconds on both concentric and eccentric phases.
• Benefits: Excellent for learning mind-muscle connection and safe strength stimulus for older adults or injury rehab.
• Applications: Useful for clients who struggle to “feel” target muscles or returning from a layoff.
• Quote: "If you have trouble feeling a muscle, this is great… go real light, make it a 30-second negative, a 30-second positive." — Justin Andrews (17:07)
• Warning: Not to be used exclusively due to greater demand on connective tissues.

4. Overcoming Isometrics (19:40–20:42)

• Description: Pushing/pulling against an immovable object as hard as possible.
• Benefits: Rapid spikes in force production and CNS adaptation; excellent for breaking plateaus.
• Quote: "You would see a 40% increase in your force production in just a few weeks... It's crazy." — Justin Andrews (20:03)
• Note: For advanced lifters seeking short-term strength surges.

5. Post Activation Potentiation (PAP) (20:43–24:16)

• Description: Pair a heavy, near-maximal lift with an explosive movement (e.g., heavy squat then a jump).
• Physiology: CNS priming from the heavy lift enhances subsequent explosive power.
• Memorable Example: Adam describes using PAP to increase his vertical jump instantly.
• Hosts’ Reaction: This method is “mind-blowing” once experienced—underused outside high-level athletics.
• Quote: "You do a heavy squat, wait, then jump, and boom, you PR your vertical." — Adam Schafer (21:23)

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Audience Q&A: Live Coaching Segments

Scott from Ohio (69:28–76:58)

Background: 40-year-old chef, ex-powerlifter, recently reignited strength training. Key Points:

• Scott describes success with MAPS Red and Old Time Strength, but wonders about next steps as he turns 40.
• Advice: Rotate in MAPS Symmetry next for injury prevention and balancing, then move to Powerlift.
• Quote: "For someone with lots of muscle memory... balancing the body out with Symmetry will floodify your joints." — Justin Andrews (73:54)
• Tip: Alternate strength-focused programs with movement/performance-based phases to avoid injury.

Alyssa from Michigan (77:00–87:57)

Background: Mid-20s, history of yo-yo dieting, back injury (L4/L5), seeking sustainable fat loss and strength. Key Points:

• Celebrates hitting protein goals (describes it “like steroids” for muscle gain!).
• Advice: Absolutely fine to swap out squats for safer variations; process over outcome; recommends total alcohol abstinence.
• Quote: "The challenge is focusing less on the result, more on the process, and DEEPLY on your relationship with yourself and exercise." — Justin Andrews (81:09)
• Encouragement: Perfect candidate for coaching; already making smart, sustainable changes.

Natasha from Hawaii (88:41–101:01)

Background: Experienced lifter/coach, consistently trains, frustrated she doesn’t “look like she lifts.” Discussion:

• Hosts suggest possible body dysmorphia—her stats (28% body fat, strong lifts) indicate impressive fitness.
• Advice: Reverse diet to bring calories up, possibly to 2800; reduce volume with MAPS 15; avoid overtraining.
• Quote: "You know the knowledge, but sometimes you just need outside accountability so you don’t get in your own way." — Doug Egge (97:05)
• Hormones: Consider hormone testing or even HRT (testosterone) if appropriate.

Eva from Missouri (103:41–114:52)

Background: 51 years old, lost >120 lbs, avid backpacker, food "noise"/fear of regain. Coaching:

• Her calories (1800/day) are too low given her hiking and training.
• Advice: Raise intake to 2000+, use high-protein meals to address hunger; avoid tirzepatide/medications since her “food noise” is likely simple hunger.
• Quote: "You’re not someone I’d recommend meds to… what we’re hearing is your body saying ‘feed me, we’re doing a lot.’" — Doug Egge (111:24)
• Training: Rotate through MAPS 15 programs; don’t overcomplicate; enjoy activity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sal, on “Cluster Day” Training:
  "What if I did a few sets at 9 a.m., a few more at 11… and spread it out all day? I got stronger. It was wild." (06:05)
• Doug, on BFR:
  "It's a super cool tool for trainers rehabbing clients—it's massive for returning from injury." (13:41)
• Justin, on Super Slow for Beginners:
  "If you haven’t worked out in a while and are shaky, go real slow—one set, and you’ll reconnect." (18:57)
• Adam, on Isometrics:
  "Of all the contractions, this is the one that fires you up—do a week of this and break your plateau." (20:03)
• Adam, on Culture and Social Media:
  "So much of what we talk about today is alarmist… it was worse in 1975. The difference is today’s problems are psychological." (62:42)
• Justin, on Healthy Relationships:
  "If your partner isn’t on board with your health journey, work on the relationship first. Without it, everything else is a struggle." (68:11)
• Doug, on Coaching Experienced Lifters:
  "Sometimes you just need someone to keep reminding you: ‘You’re doing great!’ That’s what coaching can be." (97:05)

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Timestamps for Key Concepts

• Start of Core Topic: 03:08 (“Weird but effective ways to add muscle”)
• Cluster Day Training: 04:46
• BFR Training: 11:04
• Super Slow Training: 15:10
• Overcoming Isometrics: 19:40
• Post-Activation Potentiation: 20:43
• Live Q&A: Scott: 69:28
• Live Q&A: Alyssa: 77:00
• Live Q&A: Natasha: 88:41
• Live Q&A: Eva: 103:41

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Section: Culture, Mental Health & Social Media (59:00–63:46)

• Hosts reflect on cycles of cultural pessimism, noting that many modern fears are amplified by constant connectivity and newsfeeds.
• Advice: Purposeful disconnection (no phones, no news) can remedy much modern anxiety and loneliness.
• Sal highlights that, historically, problems have always been present—what's new is the “psychological war” amplified by media.

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Section: Relationship Health and Fitness Journey (64:11–68:40)

• Adam offers insights from a “Better Man” church group, focusing on male mentorship and iron-sharpens-iron support systems.
• Strong friendships and mentorship are essential for growth, especially for men who often isolate socially.

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Takeaway: Novelty Matters—but Master the Basics

The episode emphasizes that weird and novel muscle-building methods can spark progress when traditional routines plateau. However, these methods supplement—not supplant—foundational training, nutrition, and rest. Mindful self-awareness, coaching accountability, and community support are recurring themes, both for fitness and broader life satisfaction.

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Connect with Mind Pump

• @mindpumpmedia
• Show/Programs
• [Hosts’ individual IG accounts]: @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug

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For anyone seeking not just new ways to build muscle, but a roadmap to sustainable progress, this episode delivers wisdom and tough love in equal measure.

Transcript

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[Sal Destefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Justin Andrews]

Mind Pop. Mind Pump.

[Sal Destefano]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Justin Andrews]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had callers call in and we got to coach them live on air. So people with fat loss goals or muscle building, strength training, whatever, we got to help them out. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, send your question to mplivecaller.com now. That segment happened after the intro. The Intro today was 65 minutes long. This is where we talk about fitness and fat loss and current events and all kinds of cool stuff. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Seed. This is the world's best probiotic. Now, I highlight studies that show that probiotics help with fat loss and muscle gain. It's true. Lots of studies, no joke. Go check it out. Go to seed.com mindpump use the code 20mindpump and get 20% off your first month's order. This episode's also brought to you by caldera lab today we talked about their clinical trials. You got to go on their website. Check out the four week before and afters. These are real clinical Trials. Go to calderalab.com mindpump and if you use the code mindpump20, you'll get 20% off. We also have a sale. We have something called the couples Bundle. This is four programs, 50% off altogether in a bundle. Maps, aesthetic maps. Hit maps. Muscle mommy and the no BS six pack formula. All of it, 50% off. You get them all for 197. Go check them out. Go to npvalentine.com all right, real quick.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now.

[Doug]

Hit pause.

[Adam Schaefer]

Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Justin Andrews]

When it comes to building muscle, the consistent is true strength. Train, eat high protein, be consistent with it, get good sleep. But there are some weird things you could do that have been shown proven to add some muscle to your body. And they're weird because you don't do them all the time. But there's data supporting them and we've seen them work ourselves. We have experience with them, with clients and ourselves. So we're going to tell you about these weird ways that actually build muscle.

[Doug]

They really work.

[Justin Andrews]

Check it out.

[Adam Schaefer]

I live in the weird Sal.

[Doug]

I was actually looking at this. I'm trying to think of. Oh, there's a couple of these actually. You definitely do do. Yeah, there's. I. I see three that Justin does.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I mean we've all played with.

[Doug]

Well, the only. No, the first one is. The first one is the only one. I feel like you really have done like truly tested. I've done like versions of this first one, but not like. Like how you have.

[Justin Andrews]

It's so.

[Doug]

And it's on my list of I need to do this.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Well, I want to be clear. The reason why they're weird is because they're not. These aren't things you do all the time.

[Doug]

Yeah, no.

[Justin Andrews]

And they don't replace the staples, so they're not going to replace their interrupters. In other words, if you're not doing the basics, the important stuff, then don't waste your time doing this stuff. Like don't, don't practice, you know, spinning, you know, backwards slam dunks when you can't dribble. Right. You got. You got to practice the Basics, because they give you the most output. And you guys are laughing about the sports.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's like when you take my analogies and just bastardize them.

[Justin Andrews]

I like it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's my analogy. Bastardized.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a thing.

[Justin Andrews]

That's basketball, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

I never heard it.

[Justin Andrews]

Basketball, right. All right, here we go.

[Caller Scott]

Sports.

[Doug]

Go, go.

[Justin Andrews]

Here we go. Here we go.

[Doug]

Stick to your own analogies.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, listen. Just talk about mitochondria over there. All right, so look, here's. Here's one of them. And I've done this before, and it's wild. And I got this idea, actually, a long time. I never really put it into practice until much later, but I got this idea by reading on how the Soviets trained their Olympic athletes. And then, in general, the science of strength training is the best in Olympic lifting. They just have. They have the most science because countries compete with Olympic lifting and they spend a lot of money on it. It's the most scientific form of strength training. That doesn't mean lots of government funding. That's right. It doesn't mean you need to apply how they train, because it's different than bodybuilding. It's different than other forms of strength training. It's not appropriate for everybody. But they've invested so much money and time. I mean, the Soviet Union at one point was like, they were all in, all in. And they had athletes living in their.

[Adam Schaefer]

Labs, essentially, and they produced, like crazy athletes.

[Justin Andrews]

Crazy. They dominated. And it was because they just really applied the scientific method.

[Adam Schaefer]

You found out later they cheated a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I mean, look, I'm glad you brought that up.

[Doug]

You ain't cheating. You ain't trying.

[Justin Andrews]

Athletes were using anabolics all over the place. When the Iron Curtain fell down, when the Soviet Union dissolved and their coaches came over here and went to other countries, you suddenly saw people.

[Adam Schaefer]

All of a sudden, there's an explosion of.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So their training methods were remarkable. And one thing was they would extend workouts for super long. Now, it's not because they did tons of exercises. It's because they would do an exercise and they'd take a long time in between, and then they do another one, and then they take a long time in between, and then they go eat, and then they come back and do it again. And a lot of athletes were taking all that total volume and putting it kind of in one workout, whereas the Soviets were doing this thing where they were having athletes in there for five or six hours or eight hours, because they would kind of spread it out. And my idea Was I wonder what would happen if I kind of took a high volume workout that I would do. Maybe that would take me an hour and a half or so and I just spread it out over a whole day. Yeah. Like, what if I did a few sets at 9am and then I would come back at 11am and do a few more sets and come back again at one and did another few sets. What if I did this till like 5pm and in between I would eat and in between I would rest, Maybe a little stretching. Like what would happen? Well, I'll tell you what happened. I got stronger and it was wild. It was really crazy what I, what I got from something like this. So this is something you can experiment with. And it's obviously not for everybody, but especially if you have a home gym, it's wild. The strength gains that you get.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a fun experiment. I did it one time after you had mentioned it and it was like, it was wild because you do, you do realize, like you're capable of a lot of volume as long as you spread it out throughout the day because you can recover. And then it's interesting how much better you get at the lift because it's like if you allow for more rest in between, like your body just responds and recognizes it more powerfully.

[Doug]

I want to, I want to brand these.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Like, I mean there's not really a name for this, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Sal's Workout. Cluster day.

[Doug]

Cluster days.

[Justin Andrews]

A cluster day.

[Doug]

Because it reminds me of like a cluster set.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh sure.

[Doug]

Done all through the day.

[Adam Schaefer]

Cluster day.

[Doug]

And one of the things that like blew my mind about cluster sets was that ability to like the amount, how heavy of a weight that you could do just by this, these little break. These little breaks. Now that cluster set is done in a short period of time.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like you wait 15 seconds and.

[Doug]

So it's like the, in my, in my, like the kind of things, like a cluster day. It's like it's the day you're doing, you're not doing a lot of volume in these little work, these little micro workouts or you know, all day micro workout would be another thing you could call it. But I've, I haven't done it to the extent that you have. But there was times, and this was back when I was competing in training all the time where I would, I'd have these workouts where I'd be the, I'd go to the gym three times. Like I would just, I'd come in the morning and then I'd Do a little bit of, a little bit of work and then I come out and then. And I also walk because I was trying to move a lot at the time and then come back in the afternoon, then come back in the evening and I just saw. And I wasn't really adding a lot more. It was, I was breaking it up as I was doing and it was awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

It was, it's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's super fun, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

The thing that Lew me, all three.

[Doug]

Workouts, I felt so strong. Whereas if I put it, all of it together, you know, when you're, when you're especially training, as long as we've all been training you, when you get about 30 to 45 minutes into your workout, like you, you feel like you're getting stronger for the first 20 to 30 minutes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And then you feel like you kind of. And then the back, you feel it, you can feel it. You can feel like around 40, 45 minutes an hour.

[Justin Andrews]

Good intensity.

[Doug]

Yeah, exactly. Like you're, you're, you're tailoring off. This is where the, the old like finisher sets and exercises volume. Yeah, junk volume comes in is because like those exercises and you tend, if you do it right, you put the ones that are really important in the front and these less important exercises towards the end. You're not really. Whereas if I spread it out in the day like that, I could do all these major exercises and I feel really strong, all of them. And when you think of the total time I'm working out and we're going to as much or more time, but it's spread out.

[Justin Andrews]

What's, what's wild to me. Here's what I experienced doing this. So mine looked like this. I would pick two or three exercises and I would do three sets of each. So typically it was two exercises and I do like squats and bench press or something like that. And I do the same exercises all day because the idea was like, let me get, let me just see what I could do with these exercises. And I would pick a weight that I could do 5 or 6 reps with that normally I do 10 reps with. So that's the intensity. Okay. So it's heavy, but it's not like hard. And I do five reps, three sets for squat, and then I go to bench and do three sets. What was weird is by the time I got to. So it started at 9am Then it would come back at 11, then I'd come back at 1. When I got back to the 1pm and, and the 3pm I was stronger. It was weird. It was like I was getting stronger as the day went on. And then as the day continued to go on, then I didn't notice a little bit of fatigue. But by the end of the day, I did all these sets of squat, all these sets of bench press, and then I come back to do those lifts, you know, four or five days later, I was like, really strong. It was really, really wild. It's a lot of fun.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I did the same with that. It was two. It was just squat and overhead press. But like, yeah, like you said, it just, it kind of ramped up. I just kept getting, you know, stronger, stronger, stronger. And then slowly towards the end, started kind of tapering off. The only thing was, the downside was I was pretty sorted.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Pretty damn sore.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Knowing you probably went too hard, I.

[Adam Schaefer]

Definitely teetered over the threshold.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So next up is blood flow restriction training. I don't see people talk about this anymore, but about 10 years ago, lots of people were talking about this. This is a super weird way to add quick muscle. It's really, really strange. And it was discovered years ago by, I think it was a physical therapist or scientist who noticed when he would sit on his knees for long periods of times, he would get occluded in his calves because his calves wouldn't get good blood flow and they'd get swollen. It'd be like swelling from it, almost like a pump. And so he started studying this and this became a physical therapy method. And so the way they would use it is if you have an injured knee, we can't put much load on your legs, but we want to strength train still. So what do we do? How do we work around that? You can't put much load, but we want to strength train. So what they would do is they would use a device, and you can use a knee wrap for this, and you tie it around the top of your thigh tight enough to cause occlusion. So not so tight that you lose feeling, but tight enough to where your blood is not coming out like it did before, it's going in, but not coming out as much. Then they would do some sets of an exercise like leg extensions. And what happens is, because you can't get rid of the waste byproduct of the exercise fast enough, it fatigues and it starves the muscle enough to where the fast twitch muscle fibers act as if they're lifting heavy weight. And so it's simulating heavy weight and you get similar results. Now, I experimented with this and I never added the fastest. It sucks. But the fastest half inch I ever added to my calves was adding bfr. It was like three weeks. I had like a half inch to my chaos from doing this. Pretty wild.

[Doug]

We. We've known this in physical therapy for a long time.

[Justin Andrews]

Long time.

[Doug]

It's been like. I know that professional athletes in particular, I think it started in hockey, have been using this for a. A really long time. It's. And it's awesome for that. Like, I think it's a cool like you, like you've labeled this weird hacks to build muscle if you've never messed around with it. I saw the same things, especially with calves, but really, really cool tool for trainers for rehabbing clients. You know, how many times have you got a client fantastic that you know is fresh off of a knee surgery and gone through the rehab and now you're the one who's training them, you know, before it's like. And you know, you're probably not a good idea to go backload them and load up a bunch of weight and squat right out the gates early on in this person's training. But I definitely can include them and do some exercises with that and really get this crazy pump and make it feel like they trained really intense with really light weight. Super valuable.

[Justin Andrews]

You pick really light weight. You do a lot of reps. You rest for 30 seconds. You repeat, rest 30 seconds, repeat. And you will be surprised at how few reps you could do by the second and third set. And the fire that you feel, there is no burn. I felt my life like occlusion.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Blood flow restriction.

[Adam Schaefer]

I was just fact checking myself. The origin of it was a doctor in Japan.

[Justin Andrews]

Japan.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Japanese doctor.

[Doug]

That's.

[Justin Andrews]

I.

[Doug]

For some reason I thought it was.

[Justin Andrews]

Katsu was his last name. Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug]

And then it gets first introduced.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hockey was. You're right.

[Doug]

Okay. Yeah. Then it was then it was hockey who. They first started using it and now, now all athletes, it's like a known rehab strategy that they can do really. Even when the, when the, the, the client is still recovering, you know what I'm saying? Because it's not a lot of risk because it's so low of weight and resistance.

[Justin Andrews]

It works best on the extremities, arms and legs. And you would add, you know, this to the end of one of your workouts in a week and it's crazy. And you get the most crazy pump you've ever had in your life.

[Doug]

I, I play with it a lot and I really liked it to the. But I, I started and I saw such great results from it. I did the typical, you know, knucklehead trainer thing is like I started to, it started to replace other things.

[Justin Andrews]

No, you can't do that.

[Doug]

And then what I realized was that it's awesome, it's good. It's not better than traditional strength training. And so what, it, it complements it really well.

[Justin Andrews]

It'll add like 15%.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's best if you have restrictions like you said, like for rehab or, or in that regard or as novelty.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Next up is super slow motion training. Now this was a method of strength training that came about during World War II. So during World War II they were rationing metals, iron. You couldn't make dumbbells and weights because they needed it for the war efforts. And so in the, in the 1940s there weren't a lot of gyms, but there were a few gyms. This is when bodybuilding and strength training started to kind of grow. And so the gyms were stuck with like 20 pound dumbbells and like light barbells. And so what did the athletes do? They said, okay, well instead of two or four seconds on the descent and two or four seconds on the positive, what if I made it 30 seconds? What if I did a 30 second negative and a 30 second positive? And this created super slow motion training. And if you do this all the time, it's not great, but if you do it every once in a while, it's pretty awesome. It's really. And you can do this with any exercise. Pick a really light weight though. It's way harder than it was.

[Doug]

Well, there's an entire franchise that's across the country built off of this and they really, they target advanced age people.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's really safe.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's what makes it. This is a great way. You have a, a client who's, you know, advanced age, so 70 plus, never really strength train. You're trying to reverse or slow down osteoporosis, you're trying to do something like that. Here's a really cool way to do that with low risk. Right. Like you, you, we all know the benefits of building muscle from, you know, the big compound lifts. But you get 70 year old frail client who's never lifted before. There's very high risk with doing some of these movements. Great way to start them is these, you know, isometrics or really, really slow movements with a little bit of resistance and safe and great way to build muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Average person. Here's where I see the benefit of this one. Novelty, that's always cool. But two, if you have trouble feeling a muscle, this is great.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You're doing a compound lift, like a, like a row or a press and you're like, man, I don't feel it. My chest, I don't feel it. My lats go real light. Make it a 30 second negative, a 30 second positive where you're just focusing on the muscle. You'll feel the muscle. One of the best ways or like.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you've been out of training for a long period of time, you're coming back in, you know, just to provide you with a better amount of stimulus and intensity. I feel like it's a great way to reconnect.

[Doug]

I'm doing this right now. So one of my like I'm right now, strength is ramped up and I have been really fearful of moving past 80 pound dumbbell presses. Now I started it like 50, 60s, worked my way up. Oh, because you're picked her and yes. Oh, yeah. And so Now I'm at 80s and I'm moving 80s really easy and I want to go 90, 100, keep going. And I'm just, instead of doing that, I'm moving the 80s really slow. And so I don't want to because that's, I re injured it. If those that followed my journey barbell pressing after I had the tear. So I tore, tore my pec minor when I was wakeboarding and then rehabbed, you know, did all the things came back and then I was, I was bench pressing. It wasn't even, I want to say it was like 185. Barbell just wasn't ready and just re injured it. And so, you know, again I can feel, I can feel it missing. I can feel it's not, it's not right. But I can also still do dumbbell presses. And I've gotten strong again, but. And now I've ramped all the way up to 80 and now I'm at that place where I'm like, okay, I could go to 90 or 100. I'm moving, I'm moving 80s for a lot of reps. And since I'm running out of reps now, I'm going, okay, let me slow down the tempo. Really slow.

[Justin Andrews]

The two times I've used this for clients is one, I don't feel my lats, I don't feel my chest, I don't feel my delts go real slow. And then we're able really connect. The other time is. And I know you guys have seen this, right? And people have Experienced this when you haven't worked out in a while and then you go to do an exercise and it's shaky. It's like, almost like your muscles are laughing. They're like this, this is what I'll do with a client. So we're doing a press and they're kind of shaking, like, oh, I feel like I'm shaky. What's going on? I'll go light and I'll go. We're going to go slow. We do one set like this and the shaking stops and we connect and we go back to a normal, normal press. Next up, a form of an isometric lift called overcoming. So overcoming isometrics is when I'm trying to lift something or press something or pull something that I can't move.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, immovable object. This is actually my favorite form of isometrics. I mean, everybody's familiar with just holding a pose or a position. But I feel like this is really a way to maximize your efforts and really ramp up the recruitment.

[Doug]

You get way more recruitment this way too.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, this is the advanced, this is the muscle building isometric.

[Adam Schaefer]

This one will really fry you if you.

[Justin Andrews]

This one right here, when you look at the data on isometrics, this is the one of all the contractions, all the ways you can lift. If you were to try to get gains of strength or force production in three weeks or four weeks, you're advanced. Let's say you're advanced. I'm good, I'm strong. I haven't been able to add weight to my squat or whatever. If you did this for three weeks, you would see a 40% increase in your force production. It's crazy how much you increase your force production in a short period of time. This is advanced. But this produces crazy short term gains. So if you've been like plateauing for a while, do a whole week or two of this with some of your main lifts. Go back to your lift again and watch what happens. It's pretty wild.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Next is post activation potentiation.

[Adam Schaefer]

I love this.

[Justin Andrews]

Which is. This has a lot of data supporting it. It activates more muscle fibers, increases neural activation. Same thing, builds more muscle. Here's what it looks like. You do an explosive movement first, then you go do your. Oh, sorry. You do a heavy lift first.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we.

[Justin Andrews]

Then you do your explosive movement. So the heavy lift recruits the central nervous system, gets the muscle fibers ready, then you move to something explosive. So what it looks like is and you pick a weight that's 80 to 90% of your max so you go do a heavy squat, one rep or two reps, rack it up and then you wait three minutes and then you do a jump.

[Adam Schaefer]

A jump? Yeah. And this is literally what I did to test out for vertical jump. And it works fantastic.

[Justin Andrews]

You get a higher jump.

[Adam Schaefer]

You get a higher jump. And it's, it's strange because I think, you know, for me it was like, well, this doesn't seem like logical because.

[Justin Andrews]

You feel really one of my, you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Feel, yeah, you're like in a grinding type of exercise. But really it just, it gets everything lighting up and recruited. So now that's useful force that I can apply.

[Doug]

I, I, so I remember early on, early certifications, reading about this and understanding this but never really applying it or, or seeing it. And I remember when I first realized the potential of it and I had pull ups had been in my routine for a while, so I had a good relative idea of like how hard a pull up was and how many I could do and some of that. And I had just, I had just done a really heavy deadlift and I jumped up to do a pull up just to kind of mess around. And I went, I went, whoa. Yeah, like it's surprised Hit the bar, bro. It's a pro. It's a pr. It was, I was so strong and I felt so light. I had never felt that before. And I went, whoa. I'm like, oh, that's what that is like. And I up into that point, read about it, knew about it, never actually really messed that much with it or applied it, thought, oh, it's like you just like this, you know, niche thing that doesn't really apply to me. I don't really need to use it. It's not something I care about. When I did that, it blew my mind. What a cool tools. You know the, the what's the reverse called? So you can also do, where you.

[Justin Andrews]

Do explosive lingo Heavy.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not called anything, but I've done that before.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's why we're getting confused.

[Doug]

I've used both because that, this is also really useful. Like a lot of times when I was short on time on like priming and warming up and I knew I wanted to get into like some heavy squats, I would do a couple explosive jumps, just jump squats to get. And it just kind of wakes everything up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Maybe pre activation potentiation.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there isn't. There is a name for the reverse because the reverse is a tool also. You can use that before you go into a heavy Grinding squat. Do a couple of quick jumps in the air, like explosive. Just two. Two or three of them.

[Justin Andrews]

Real quick. You're right.

[Doug]

And then go in there, and it wakes that CNS up. And so it's. It's another way to kind of prime all those muscles, because if you move them explosively. And I've done it with bench press before where real lightweight. And then I get on, and then I load. Then I load it with a really heavy weight, and then I can. And then you're just better connected. And so both work really well and are super cool to experiment with getting into your lift, I think, especially if.

[Justin Andrews]

You'Re an advanced lifter. Besides the rehab applications for some of these, if you're an advanced lifter, have fun with these. I know it's a blast, and it's pretty cool. The novelty alone makes a difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, yeah, it just shows you how many more options there are to explore. There's so many things, like you can do to train the body.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude, I got to bring this up because I forgot to bring this up yesterday. So. You know that clip you sent me, Adam, of Jelly Roll? And he was doing the. He's like a judge on a show.

[Doug]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Which show is that?

[Adam Schaefer]

Star Search, I think something like.

[Justin Andrews]

There's this. It's viral. It's going viral right now. So it's this clip, and it's him. He's one of the judges. And apparently the singer had just stopped. And Jelly Roll, who's this artist, is like. He's, like, tearing up. He's very emotional now. If you don't know who Jelly Roll is, he's had a crazy story, hard life, becomes a Christian, talks about all the time, like, huge change to his life. The dude who finished singing also has the face tattoos and stuff. Almost like. It was like, almost like brothers.

[Adam Schaefer]

They almost looked identical.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I get. And so he's talking about how, you know, he's had a tough life. This is the singer. He was addicted to drugs. He finds Jesus. It saves his life. It's the greatest thing. Whatever. So Jelly Roll's like, oh, my God, this is crazy. And he picked Jelly Roll's song to sing. So Jelly Roll then goes back and says, man, I was praying that I could have an opportunity to talk about God. So it's a really cool moment. But here's what I'm bringing this up, because there was, like, two seconds of that clip that I noticed. I'm like, Justin. Well, for sure. Justin has this uncanny ability to notice evil people. He's got crazy discernment. Crazy. I love his discernment because he's always on point. So there's like a. I know you missed it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I did.

[Justin Andrews]

It was like a 2 second where the camera pans. Christy Teigen.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Is one of the judges.

[Adam Schaefer]

Watch how uncomfortable she is.

[Justin Andrews]

They're mentioning Jesus and God and you can see her face. Like, Like, I told you, the demons in her.

[Doug]

I didn't even. I did not catch this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Needless to say, I'm not a fan of her.

[Doug]

I don't know much about her, so I don't even know.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a lot of stuff about her. Rabbit hole and John Legend and some of the posts they did in the past with their. Their just, I don't know, code words that mean something.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's ties. Yeah. It's all that kind of stuff. Oh, I'm willing to go look into like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, like pizza.

[Doug]

Now I want to go look back.

[Justin Andrews]

And look at the clip.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's worse than Diddy kind of stuff.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Bad stuff, dude. Yeah, bad stuff. But it's funny because, like, I saw two seconds of her face. I'm like, oh, I gotta show Justin because I know for sure right away when he's watching, he's like, oh, he said something on Christy T. Look at.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Burning inside right now.

[Justin Andrews]

But as soon as they mentioned that her face is like. I was like, why are you so.

[Doug]

That's weird.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude.

[Doug]

That's so weird. Such a cool clip, though.

[Justin Andrews]

Such a cool clip.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's powerful.

[Justin Andrews]

Such a cool.

[Doug]

I mean, I'm tripping out, though. Like, I've been talking about it, like, the shift in. In our culture. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Doug]

And the shift in the media is just like, I. I don't know. I. I can't. I struggle with how I.

[Justin Andrews]

How I feel about it. Oh, the media's fake. You.

[Doug]

You would think you know what it is. And Justin sent over something yesterday that was fascinating. The sound thing. Right. And then like how our brain recognizes the patterns and it's like. Or it's. It's like once you hear this weird stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Primed.

[Doug]

Yeah. You get primed like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Then you hear it forever.

[Doug]

So there's a part of me that like, oh, this, this is a good message. And that's good. This is all good stuff. But it's just like, I don't like feeling like I'm being primed.

[Justin Andrews]

Like they're trying to pull a fast one. Yeah.

[Doug]

And so why so. Because I don't want to be this person who was the anti woke crapping on all this media content and everything like that two years ago. And media is evil, bad. And then now all of a sudden I'm like, yay, media, Media.

[Caller Scott]

Look at.

[Doug]

They're sharing all the stuff that I like. It's like they don't give a shit about either one.

[Justin Andrews]

Now.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're still being manipulated.

[Doug]

Yes, I'm still being. Yes. Either way, you're getting manipulated. And like, how many people fall into that trap.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Fall into that trap of like, you're like, no, they're not on your team.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Doug]

They're not on your team.

[Justin Andrews]

No. And the media is gone. Media just. They just want to sell you stuff. That's a fact. That's 100%. But there's. I'll tell you what, there's a verse for that because I brought this up to Chad because I was like, you know what? Chad? So Chad's a pastor. I work with, you know, I work with him once a week or so. And I'm like, man, I'm noticing like this stuff that's happening and it's getting more popular, but, you know, I get, I get really. What's the word? Like a skeptical. You know, and it's like, it's, you know, it reminds me of. It's like when they. Remember when they had like, you know, Pride Month and they had all these companies promoting Pride. But then you saw their, their, their Middle east ads.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Completely different.

[Justin Andrews]

And they did. Yeah. Totally different. And everyone's like, oh, these companies support us. No, you don't. They're just doing what they.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you really did, you'd support everyone.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You would do that in Iran. But you don't. Right. So my. So I'm skeptical with that. So he, he showed me a verse from Philippians, and I'm not gonna read the whole verse, but essentially it says it doesn't matter what the motives are because it's still, it's still getting preached and it's literally in that verse. So I'm like, okay, cool. So, yeah, I don't trust media at all.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But fine, Fine. We still got good messages.

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's kind of the attitude I've had about it. It's just like, well, at least it's better stuff, propaganda or not. Yeah. Propaganda or not. It's like, if.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'll figure out how to monetize it.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're gonna brainwash my son. Brainwashing. With good morals and positive things.

[Justin Andrews]

Because.

[Doug]

That'S what it feels like, it feels like they don't really about, you know, anything other than eyeballs attention. And that's.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what. That's really what I gotta tell you guys. So speaking about like media and false or whatever, do you guys know Mark Davis is the owner of the Raiders?

[Doug]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Of course there's. Bro, that's the funniest thing. You guys probably already know this, but I don't. False.

[Doug]

Not. Not if it's new news. So why are you coming up with this new. I know. What are you. What are you following?

[Justin Andrews]

Nothing. Just shows up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Tom Brady.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. No, dude. So. So have you seen his girlfriend? Doug, look up Mark Davis girlfriend. That'd be. So I'll just.

[Doug]

Is it crazier than Bill Belichick's girlfriend?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, it is crazy. Oh, and then you guys know what Mark David. You know what he looks like?

[Doug]

Yes. He's like. He's almost dead.

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, he's very old. Overweight. Yeah, he's got like a weird bull cut or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, Las Vegas owner Mark Davis sparked headlines after saying that his 26 year old girlfriend. Which you'll see.

[Doug]

26.

[Justin Andrews]

That's his girlfriend. That's him, bro. So listen, he got interviewed and he goes, oh, no, she had no idea I was a billionaire. She was just like, look at this. He goes, she just. She fell in love with my smile and my personality. She had no idea I was a billionaire.

[Doug]

He did not say that.

[Justin Andrews]

Did. It's right there. Like, read that.

[Adam Schaefer]

It says here, bro, this is right up there with the, the lawsuit about the guys because he had too big.

[Doug]

Get out of here. Okay, that's got to be taken out of context. It has to be sarcasm. No, he got interviewed, like from the. No, come on.

[Justin Andrews]

If.

[Doug]

Come on.

[Justin Andrews]

That's got to be. It's what he said.

[Doug]

I don't know. What would you say if you're in his shoes and someone's calling that out. You, you, you. You poke fun at him.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Was he like tongue in cheek?

[Doug]

Yeah, that's totally different. Gotta be.

[Justin Andrews]

Bro.

[Doug]

That's got to be. Apparently she. No, she doesn't know I'm a billionaire. She fel. Smile like, that's if some reporters trying to. Trying to. Trying to make fun of me. I'm him, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Maybe, bro.

[Doug]

Come on.

[Justin Andrews]

I hope he doesn't believe that.

[Doug]

Do some digging, Doug.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm sure he has to be the most delusional.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, some people delude themselves to feel better.

[Doug]

I mean, maybe, but I. I bet you I Bet you this is taken out of context and this is like him.

[Justin Andrews]

I just cracked me up because I saw it.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I was dying of laughter. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's no way.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you just caught my eye.

[Adam Schaefer]

Has to be a joke.

[Justin Andrews]

Your smiles. I had no idea.

[Doug]

I mean, it's just, it makes for, it makes for a great meme and conversation for sure. I was just like, wow, wow. I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that hilarious?

[Doug]

Anyway, I mean, okay, you're, you're, you're. Okay, you're. You're that. How old is he? He's how old? How is he?

[Sal Destefano]

Seventy.

[Doug]

He's. You're. You're 70 years old.

[Adam Schaefer]

A 26 year old.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're. You're 70 years Old. You're a billionaire. You don't. Your kids are way grown by now. Okay? It's fast, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

She's his granddaughter's age.

[Doug]

Yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Do you not.

[Adam Schaefer]

We just made it a Starbucks, hit it off.

[Doug]

I'm just asking you, I'm asking you.

[Justin Andrews]

When I dated.

[Doug]

Your wife doesn't exist anymore. She's moved on or she's passed away. Your kids are all grown. You're a single billionaire.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Doug]

And, and 26 year old.

[Justin Andrews]

That's Justin.

[Doug]

Well, what's her name?

[Justin Andrews]

My wife doesn't listen.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, yeah, I'm definitely. I find me a nice 20.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I mean, okay, are you, are.

[Doug]

You out at 70 years old shopping for another 70 year old lady?

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, okay, here's the deal. What does he have in common with her besides the fact that she's young and he wants. What do they get taught? What do they do besides sleep? Have sex? Like, what's he going to. What do you talk about?

[Doug]

I mean, do you think that guy.

[Justin Andrews]

What would you talk about now at your age with a 26 year old? He'd be like, oh, God, bored. What are we talking about? What are we doing here? Let alone a 70 year old.

[Doug]

Do you think he doesn't have.

[Justin Andrews]

He's a dinosaur.

[Doug]

Do you think he doesn't have enough hobbies, friends, to talk to people and do this to fill that gap?

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, I mean, I'm just, I'm.

[Doug]

No, I'm just. I want you to think a little bit like a little broader here. Like you, he's.

[Justin Andrews]

You're trying to defend him is what you're doing.

[Doug]

I mean, yeah, because I would probably be this guy if I would. If I. And I would. And my wife listens to the show. She knows that. Like, like I told her if this doesn't work out, like it's like you're it, you're, you're my one, you're my one man. This doesn't work. Yeah, if it doesn't work, then it's.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm going back to.

[Doug]

Then it's, yeah, it's five, five girlfriends that I don't really care, you know what I'm saying? And I'll keep my friends and all other stuff like that and just, I mean he's, he's got plenty of stuff on his plate. He's got plenty of hobbies, he's got plenty of money, he's got plenty all stuff like that. Like that's the probably part that he can't fill that gap. And, and a, a 70 year old partner from school.

[Justin Andrews]

They go on a School. She's 26, reads her stories at night. That's funny.

[Doug]

It's arm candy. I mean, I'd say he, he gets to walk into, he gets to walk into dinner and, and say, you know, I've got one of the hottest chicks at the, at dinner with all his other buddies who, you know, I would.

[Adam Schaefer]

Almost like reference like Nicki Minaj or so I don't even know like a, a artist right now. That would be like ridiculous. I mean, she'd pull him to go.

[Doug]

Watch, you know, I mean, Doug, you're approaching that age.

[Adam Schaefer]

Would you date a 26 year old here?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, the politically correct answer is no, of course not.

[Doug]

But yeah, I mean, see, good man.

[Sal Destefano]

But here's the thing.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll agree with Sal too.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, you probably don't have a lot in common.

[Justin Andrews]

I feel like, I feel like that would be a headache, a nightmare.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, it depends on the person. Drama really does depend on the person.

[Justin Andrews]

She's a 26 year old who was dating a 7 year old. What do you, what do you think's there?

[Doug]

Okay, yeah, but what, what do you think's there?

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, you can find a hot one with personality.

[Doug]

You could also find. And she could be smart. Smart in the fact that like, listen, I, I'm, I am, I'm happy with how he lives his life and does his thing. He gives me the freedom to do my thing when we're together, we have a blast and stuff like that. When I'm off doing my thing, I'm hanging out with my friends. Like we have this. I guarantee he didn't just pick some random 26 year old that was hot. I guarantee that that's not the only 26 year old hot girl he could have married or hangman. Girlfriend with. He found one that probably was like, cool. Like, he's like, listen, I don't have to have conversate 26 year old conversations all day long. She comes to me at dinner. We have a great time. She looks amazing on my arm. She go, we go to the boat and she's hanging out next to me like, you know, on the yacht. You know what I'm saying a lot about this. And then, and then when I want to go have play poker with the boys, she's not giving me shit. She goes, hangs out with her girls. I don't care.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying? Meanwhile, you have kids. Come on. Meanwhile, you got kids and grandkids. You got your grand. You got your granddaughters coming up to you. Your grandpa. Grandpa Adam. Who's this? Yeah, I went to school with her. Yeah, she was younger than me when I was in class. Who is this? Oh, this is. This is Pappy's grand girlfriend.

[Doug]

Yeah, you know, I guess that's the.

[Sal Destefano]

Thing that is one of the downsides.

[Doug]

Okay, so. Okay, it gets. It gets publicized because he's obviously in the space of me. Does this guy, you know, bring. Does he marry her? Does he bring her around all his grandkids and stuff like that, or is this like his girlfriend? You know, it's like, this is my girlfriend. I like this. And he does. I don't have to explain that to my granddaughter. Yeah, you're not hiding her. I'm sure she's totally built a tunnel. I'm sure she's totally okay taking the helicopter to Belize with her friends while I go do family time with my grandkids. I'm sure she's not like, why don't I get to go play with the grandkids? I got to go take the helicopter to Belize with my three.

[Justin Andrews]

Three girlfriends. Right?

[Doug]

I mean, don't you think that's how it goes down?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, probably.

[Doug]

Yeah, I think think it's like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Probably not a helicopter to Belize, though.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Probably a private jet. All right, I'm changing the subject. We just lost every female listener. Adam. Yeah. Good job. Good job. I got some studies, some more studies on probiotics. The studies on probiotics on fat loss and muscle gain are starting to compile. It's wild. Meta analysis. Meta analysis are showing across the board a positive effect on fat loss and probably through speeding up the metabolism.

[Doug]

How long until we start to see companies market it as a fat loss?

[Justin Andrews]

It's coming. They're gonna 100. They're gonna start marketing probiotics as fat loss product 100. It's got more data. Probiotics have more data supporting them for fat loss than every fat loss supplement that's out there.

[Doug]

Is that true?

[Justin Andrews]

I can't think of a fat loss supplement that's got great data supporting. They don't exist.

[Adam Schaefer]

They don't exist.

[Justin Andrews]

No. So pure marketing. Yeah. Dude. So it's pretty cool. I'm looking at. There were 45 plus studies that were done to notice an association. All of them notice a positive.

[Doug]

It's kind of interesting. Why, I wonder. It would be interesting to talk to seed, Right. We've been working with a seed for a long time. They're the leaders in the space. Curious to why they wouldn't do that if it's got such great.

[Justin Andrews]

You know how that's one of the touchiest things you can advertise towards.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. Advertising those claims is rough.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. And they're, you know, they're probiotic, they're established, they do a good job. So it's a good question. I don't know. But the day. Here's the thing that I was thinking, right, Metabolism, a big part of your metabolism, gut health, is the bacteria in your gut.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course that plays a big role in energy production. I mean, breaking food down and you know where it goes.

[Doug]

Think of how many clients that we've had and our trainers right now have where they're doing a lot of the things right. And. But their progress is stalled so bad. But because they have some sort of gut issue that they're dealing with and then they solve their gut issue and all of a sudden, bam. They start building muscle. Bam. They start losing body fat. Like it's so important. I think it's more important than the science is caught up to.

[Justin Andrews]

So here's. So I've been using seed for a long time and it's like a staple and I love it. It really helps with gut health, all that stuff. You know what's really coming in? Value. The value that I'm getting from it a lot right now is that I'm allowed. It's allowing me to push my calories and my protein intake without. Because sometimes when you start to push calories and protein, especially when you get past a certain point, it's the gut health, digestive issues. That's what stops you. You hear this all the time. If I go, too hot barrier.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It, it, I can go. I can utilize more of the food that I eat and the nutrients keeps me regular. It makes a huge difference. Yeah. By the way, do you guys know they have a multivitamin seed?

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Look them up, Doug. Look up their multivitamin. Yes. And I. And. And it's. I just got it. I've been using it. So I like. Here's why I like seed.

[Caller Alyssa]

A lot.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of their science goes into the delivery process, which is with probiotics. How do you keep them alive? How do you get them delivered to the right part of the body without them getting broken down, all that stuff? So they use that science with multivitamins. And when you look at nutrients, micronutrients, some of them get absorbed in this part of the digestive system, some of them get used in this part of the digestive system. And figuring out how to get them where you want them to go is a big problem. Usually you just throw them all at the body, and whatever comes through, comes through. They've used their science in the capsules that they use with. With the probiotics, also with a multivitamin.

[Doug]

So imagining multivitamin is in capsules.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. So one inside one. Yeah. With different.

[Doug]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Doug]

Oh, wow. That's cool.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I've been using it.

[Doug]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I haven't seen it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I like it.

[Doug]

We have any here?

[Justin Andrews]

Do you know if we have it here? No, I bought it. I didn't want to wait for them to send me one. Dude. Remember, they didn't send us.

[Doug]

I mean, it just shows you how bought in you are, though.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. It's actually painful. Product we get for free. You get a buy. Oh, that's cool. You guys want your crazy. You guys ever look up crazy patents that actually exist? You ever do? I know you have.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

There's some weird.

[Doug]

No, I have my pastimes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, you look it up. Studies.

[Justin Andrews]

Like.

[Doug]

I cannot relate to this conversation.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, there's weird things that have been patented before 1965, Doug. Look this up. Centrifugal force, birth, delivery. Or look that up. Birth, birth, delivery. Centrifugal force. Patent, 1965. What a scientist. That's how. You know.

[Doug]

That's cable or something.

[Justin Andrews]

Cattle, right?

[Doug]

You do that, the cattle come out, you swing them around like that.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know that.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. The baby cows, they get all this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no.

[Justin Andrews]

This was a table. Yeah, yeah. Now this guy invented a table that. To help deliver babies where a woman lays on it and it rotates so the baby. Right there. Look right there. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal Force.

[Doug]

Could you imagine someone in the middle.

[Adam Schaefer]

Of that lady is going to sign up for that Dude.

[Doug]

You say it was tested on somebody to get it patented.

[Justin Andrews]

No, they don't have to.

[Doug]

Oh, you could patent something that I have tested anything.

[Adam Schaefer]

You said to have really good pictures.

[Doug]

You just think that's going to be a thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Somebody thought somebody has this. Whoever invented this had never been around a real child.

[Doug]

Well, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

They were a childless couple that invented it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Oh, of course. Wow. So what if we spend. How many times do patents happen? Just like a gamble, like you're hoping that most.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, most of them.

[Doug]

Is that what it is?

[Adam Schaefer]

It is in a lot of them. I mean they. They do that to really just try to prevent any competition a lot of times too, before they. Yeah, the technology.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And Apple buys up a lot of them. If you go in, you'll note that.

[Sal Destefano]

There'S a net right in front.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

To catch the baby when it flies out.

[Adam Schaefer]

What a net.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank goodness. I like how the diagram is. Boo.

[Adam Schaefer]

Boobs.

[Justin Andrews]

Don't you remember we showed you that one patent, that mouse trap that was with a. Was with a pistol.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You saw that one?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a mount. You put your gun on it and then if they.

[Adam Schaefer]

Then the trigger hits and it just.

[Doug]

Hilarious.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why go through all that money? Because it's expensive to go all the way through.

[Doug]

It is, isn't it?

[Justin Andrews]

Plus you'll blow.

[Adam Schaefer]

And to maintain it in internationals different from, you know, just.

[Doug]

And they expire too. Right. So you have to renew the renewal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I went down all that because, you know, obviously I. I had.

[Doug]

Did you something, Sal, did you see the clip? I shared a clip of Peter Atia and I think a hormone specialist, our female hormone specialist, doctor talking about testosterone for men and like the argument of that. Did you see that?

[Justin Andrews]

No. What do you say?

[Doug]

Oh, I just. I thought it was. I mean I shared it as if. And I said it on the. In the post that if you've been listening to Mind Pump long enough, we've been talking about this and you theorized this a long time ago and I think we've said it many times that you can have two. Two men the same age, same everything or a lot of things similar. Right. Not exactly the same DNA. It doesn't have to be identical twins, but two men that have 400 test levels and one of them feels great, builds muscle, all the things, and yet the other one could have all the symptoms of low testosterone. And Peter Attia is theorizing that a lot of that has to he thinks to do with androgen receptor density.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, of course.

[Doug]

And so, and that's just. And that the. His ability to upregulate.

[Justin Andrews]

They did a study, well, they did this one study to look at the association between natural testosterone levels and the ability. The your ability to build muscle. So they took a bunch of men and they tested their testosterone and then had them do strength training. And they wanted to see was higher testosterone associated with building more muscle. Now all the men were within a kind of in the range. Okay. What was a stronger association was androgen receptor density.

[Doug]

I thought they can't measure that.

[Justin Andrews]

They can with muscle biopsy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah, no, they.

[Justin Andrews]

You can do a muscle biopsy while.

[Doug]

You'Re alive because that was what was one of the things Peter T. Was saying. He's like, I wish we had a good test.

[Justin Andrews]

That's not a good test. Like you can't take people in and right piece of their muscle.

[Doug]

So what's unfortunate is that we, we.

[Justin Andrews]

Don'T have a really changes when you strength train, you upregulate, you get more receptors. There's supplements that might do it or ways of eating.

[Doug]

Because you made this case, he's just like you, you take the end. So take that case of the two guys that are on 400, you give the guy who has all these terrible symptoms the added HRT to bring him up to say 900 or 1000 and he feels life changing. You do that same thing for that guy who already felt amazing at 400, bring him up to 900, he feels no change.

[Justin Andrews]

It's also why I think this is a total theory. I don't have any data to support this, but when you talk to bodybuilders or you look at the bodybuilding space, there's such a crazy variance between their tolerance of anabolic steroids. Like some guys will take a bunch and they're fine, everything feels good. Some like, oh my God, I go that point, I get all these crazy side effects or worse. And I think it has to do with androgen. Like if you have more androgen receptors, you're going to utilize more of what you, what you take. Whereas some guys, like it's not getting used so it just turns into other stuff. It gets converted to other.

[Doug]

I mean I've seen, I've seen crazy examples of that, you know, anecdotally seeing and also my own personal experience where I remember meeting men's physique guys that were just taking grams of stuff that's crazy and just horrible results. Personally, I experimented with increasing my dose and the, the highest I could really get without getting like, terrible adverse effects was 500 milligrams, which in the bodybuilding world is like a baby.

[Justin Andrews]

Nobody takes that.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's like what these, some of these guys. So. And I, I have found that, like, my body does really good on just a mild dose of it. Puts. Puts me at optimal level like that, and I get no adverse effects. I start pushing those limits and 100. See all these bad, no better effects. Yeah, and no better effects, like get all the bad side effects from it. And, and this is what I've seen with some of these people, with some of these other bodybuilders, some of them that could, though, could push grams. And the more they pushed, the bigger they got and the stronger they got. And it's just. So there's, there's definitely more there than just testosterone, you know, that's right. Free testosterone levels that we don't know about.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, your androgen receptors go up as you get older as a man.

[Doug]

Up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. They think it's because your testosterone levels start to decline and your body starts to raise androgen receptors. So, yeah, there tends to be higher.

[Doug]

I mean, this would be, this would. Would be. Have to have some sort of correlation to old man strength maybe. Wouldn't you think?

[Justin Andrews]

Maybe. Could be.

[Doug]

I mean, I mean, we, we've. We've theorized that. That we will. We theorize that. And so that's probably paying a factor too, but so is probably that because it's like real strength. Like, if anyone's ever seen, like old man strength, it's like, yeah, go wrestle your uncle. It's like, it's weird how it doesn't make sense. And like, you can't think that he's as that. I mean, he has some great CNS adaptation in his body. That's definitely part of it, but there's probably something else there. And if you're saying that androgen receptors go up as you age, you know, he probably needs a lot less of the stuff, which I have also experienced in my own life as I've gotten older and I've talked about, talked to the other show. That's. I think it's one of the blessings of aging as a man that I've realized is that man, I just need very little volume in training to. To obtain the results that I felt I had to work so hard for in my twenties.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Speaking of results, did you, Doug, pull up the before and afters from Caldera Labs clinical trials? Check this Caldera Lab. All power to them. They spend money on clinical trials. Yeah. So this is a skincare company and they advertise to men, but they actually spend money on real studies.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

So they're not just like, hey, check this out. They actually did real studies and the studies show tremendous results. These are the before and afters from the studies. Click enlarge some of those, Doug. So. So the guys can see them. I mean, it's. Look at that. Whoa, look at that. That's after how many weeks? Four weeks. That's a four week difference.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And you can visibly see the difference in his wrinkles and the health of his skin. Yeah. Like we're talking about, like, typically that would be like Botox or something to produce something like that. And they have all these before and afters on their site.

[Doug]

Well, this goes back to the conversation we had the other day on. Yeah, look at that. Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Huh?

[Doug]

That's so cool to have all those nine.

[Justin Andrews]

So over 90% of the people in the clinical trials saw visible improvements after four weeks.

[Adam Schaefer]

Crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

On their skin. I mean, they're killing it.

[Doug]

There's a lot of cool stuff now that we can do naturally to really to fight anti or to, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, the way it works is it's just making your skin healthier. And their products facilitate the microbiome on the skin. That's good. They don't strip your body of their natural oils and then make you pretty. Like they're literally working with your body. So they've hit the. They've really done it. Yeah, they've done it.

[Doug]

I mean, I've gone away. Complete spin. I don't know how many years it's been since I've used any sort of the steroid creams or stuff like that. From her psoriasis, I've moved completely all to all natural stuff. And I. I've had just as much success, if not better than all that. All those creams that I used to do. I regret that. I feel like all the years that I did that I screwed myself because it would. It would work so well and then it would come back worse, Work so well, then come back worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Your body, your body downregulates this receptor and then it starts to rebound and cause this other thing.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you ever seen people use steroid creams for their psoriasis or eczema? And over years and years and years and years, they need to use more, more, more, more, and then they get to a point when it stops working and they have to go off. So there's people that will post this, they're like I have to go off and then their skin gets so reaction, violent reaction that'll last like 30 to 60 days and then start to come back and these poor people have to go through that whole process.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild. I mean I felt like I was. I've experienced a mild version of that. That's what's happened to me is like it got worse after I did all that stuff and then since it's been years now where I've used products like this, like this and GHK CU are like the, the go to things for, for my psoriasis just to constantly use those, the Caldera product and that and that has kept it the same for I don't know how many years. Like it has it. It's hard when you have psoriasis. Gets worse as you age. Eczema can get better as you age. Psoriasis. That's true, it gets worse. And so it's just kept it at bay where I felt like the first few years I had it when I was using all those creams, it just exacerbated.

[Justin Andrews]

My daughter gets a little bit of eczema in the crook of her elbow if she eats eggs because she's got intolerance to eggs. So she thinks my three year old, she thinks it's called eczema because of eggs. Oh that makes sense. So I want to bring something up to you guys real quick because I would love your guys opinion on this. I think this is so true and it's so incredible. So Thursday mornings my church has something called Better Man. So Better man is this, it's this program, I guess you would call it a program that different churches will do. So it's not just to my church like lots of churches will do, lots of people. And it's essentially bringing men together to be. To help make them better men, better fathers, better husbands, better brothers, better sons. And of course it's all based on scripture, but it's also based on coaching and psychology and it's really, really good. Well anyway, today was day two and I love it and they were bringing something up. So there's a quote. In fact it's weird, I was wearing the shirt. Proverbs 27:17, Iron sharpens iron. And so in this proverb it says iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another. And so what they brought, what he brought up and I think this is so true is he said only, only a man can tell another man certain things. And Lift them up. If you try to have your wife or your girlfriend or a woman say to you. Just doesn't. Just doesn't hit the same. And that's. Think about that. Think about getting called out by your buddy versus if your wife did it and the difference you would feel. And they were talking about. He was talking about data and how men need to have close male relationships because men lift each other up and really can push each other in ways that typically we don't receive from women just as well, or we'll perceive it as being critical or make us feel weak.

[Doug]

Where does your. Where does your evolutionary mind go for that?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, God. I mean, I could easily come up with the evolutionary theory around that. Like, guys going off to hunt or go to war. Like you want to succeed at the hunt or war. We're not going to sit here.

[Adam Schaefer]

No time to. Yeah. Emotionally talk your way through it.

[Justin Andrews]

Think about this way.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's just like, matter of fact, brass tacks. Here's what you're doing wrong.

[Justin Andrews]

Think about this way. Imagine we're at work and we're trying to build. We've done this 10 years. We're building this business. And. And I'm doing something. And when you guys look at me angrily, you know, but serious, and I obviously respect you guys, you look at me like, man, you're being a. Yeah, yeah. Imagine if your wife said that to you. Right. Way different.

[Doug]

Well, you know what's interesting?

[Justin Andrews]

Way different.

[Doug]

Well, it's interesting about your saying that with that. How. How wild is this? Your buddy can say that to you, and it gets you fired up.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Doug]

To go get your wife, on the other other hand, says, go slay that dragon.

[Justin Andrews]

Very different.

[Dr. Z]

And.

[Doug]

And that makes you go do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Very different.

[Doug]

That interesting. And if your bud slay that dragon like, you would. You wouldn't get me up for that. It would. You calling me a. A yeah. Would get me more. Fire yourself up or what do you think you're doing? Quit being a. You could call me out like that and that would fire me up to.

[Justin Andrews]

Or, hey, man, you're drinking too much, bro. You need to cut that out. You know, you might be like, oh.

[Doug]

But you telling me, go, go, go slay that dragon for us doesn't fire me up. Your wife tells you to go do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Very different.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And so they were. They were talking about this, and it was like blowing my mind because I'm like, man, that's so. That's so true. Like, you're like, again, your buddy, your Buddy could come to you and be like, hey, man, you're. Bro, you're eating too much. Or you're, you're drinking too much, dude. And you know, your wife coming to you, you're drinking too much. She's like, come on, stop it. Don't tell me. Yeah, I'm trying to. You know what I mean?

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, that's why the last few years, culturally, just hasn't, hasn't resonated with me at all. It's like every, every sports team, every group of guys, everything I've ever experienced is just very cold delivery. Like this is, you're fat, you know, or you're this. I'm like, ah, okay. You know, and you, you move on and everybody moves on. And it's like, I know it's, it's like harsh and it's, it's sort of like something that we, we've tried to, you know, we've tried to manage other people's feelings and, and be a little more empathetic. And I'm definitely, I understand that. But at the same time, amongst men, I, I don't want to lose that dude.

[Doug]

My favorite, one of my favorite YouTube viral clips of all time is the baseball dad coach with the youth boys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And he's talking to all of them. It's like, if your dad says it's okay, like, he's like calling out all of them and that's have, you know, a clip. I'm talking about Doug.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. That is one of the all time greatest clips ever of that.

[Justin Andrews]

I've heard this before too, that like, like, if your wife wants you to, she has to lift the crown higher than you are so you can raise yourself to it, which is very different. But your buddies, guys you respect, I should say some random dudes, I can do this. But guys, they can kick you in the butt. It's very different, I take it. You know, I would receive it very different from a man than I would, but my wife could lift me like no one else. Yeah, but it's a totally different thing. So they were talking about how iron sharpens iron, and they were talking about the data on how important it is that men have close male relationships and mentors. And you see this throughout culture and history. And men are so isolated today, where they have buddies at work and then they go home, and then they're just at home. But you don't have those male friendships where you guys push each other. And I was like, man, that's so, so true.

[Doug]

I mean, you're pointing out one of the things. And to Justin's point, what's wrong with our culture right now? I mean, this is the loneliest time men have ever replaced. Supported that.

[Justin Andrews]

Right?

[Doug]

And so it's like the importance of having other. And it's not just other men, but other good men. Right?

[Justin Andrews]

There's got to be men.

[Adam Schaefer]

Other men that you're not going to respect. Some, you know, something you don't respect, like, criticizes you, you're not gonna take.

[Doug]

I mean, I tell. I always tell our. Our young male staff and my. My. My nephews and that are like, that are younger than me. Like, you should be trying to seek out men in your life that you admire in every aspect.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally.

[Doug]

Whether that be spiritual, whether that be physical, whether that be financial. That's.

[Justin Andrews]

At all of them.

[Doug]

Like, you. You should have a specialty of all of them. Like, no, that's great. If you have a guy that's got a great balance of all that. That you could have as a major mentor, that's awesome. You have a unicorn if you find that. But easier to find is, you know, that guy that is, like, he's just a financial genius. And so, like, that's what I. I talk to him about. It's like. Or that guy that is just a spiritual genius. Or that, like, find that in other men and. And. And foster those relationships. I think the mistake I probably made when I was in my early 20s is I thought I needed to have, like, all these commonalities with like. Like, oh, like, we were. Like, we were high school buddies. Like, we need to have. We need to have. We like sports. We do this. All these things.

[Justin Andrews]

Or.

[Doug]

And I needed to find other guys that were just like that. When it's like, dude, no, that's not the strategy. I have relationships with other men that we only have a thing in common like that when we're together, all we talk about is business, right? Or all we do talk about is our spiritual walk. All we talk about.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

So it's like. Like, you can. You can build relationships, and you don't have to have all these things in common.

[Justin Andrews]

So there's also tons of value in having an older mentor. So a man has more experience than you who's done the things that you looked up to. And then having someone younger than you that you mentor.

[Doug]

Can I talk.

[Justin Andrews]

That's another thing.

[Doug]

Can I tell you how. Okay, so I share this with Doug.

[Justin Andrews]

You got.

[Doug]

There's a. You should watch this, because it really kind of it really brought me back down to earth a little bit because I'm guilty of this. I think we're all guilty of this on this podcast of, of talking about just the times right now and just how terrible it is and well, all this. Right. And you're probably the most guilty of this for sure. You're like, you know, Chicken little sky is always falling, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Like this depends. Yeah. If we're talking about the business, that's, you know.

[Doug]

Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

[Justin Andrews]

That's fair. You just said that earlier. Yeah, that's fair. Every time I say something good about the business.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Farts on it right away. It's fair, that's fair.

[Doug]

There's a show on Netflix right now. I think it's called 1975. Look at, look it up to either. 1975. You guys should watch it.

[Justin Andrews]

I have.

[Doug]

Have you watched it?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

It's just everything that was going on in culture, the world, Hollywood, crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

It was crazy.

[Doug]

It was, it was crazy, crazy, crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

It was crazy.

[Doug]

I mean the oil embargo did happen. Yes. Oil embargo, the Watergate. I mean there was, there was assassination. Assassinations, corruptions, division.

[Justin Andrews]

The Cold War was crazy.

[Doug]

Yeah. 1975.

[Sal Destefano]

Break down 1975.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what the difference was?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll tell you right now what the difference was.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're not social media.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You didn't have media.

[Doug]

That's the only thing. If we had Instagram back then.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh God, everybody would have gone mental.

[Doug]

You. Yes, exactly. You would have gone. If you could have seen the, the stuff that was going on every day in your feed, everybody would be worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Than what they are. People couldn't get gas on certain days. Yeah. If your lice, if your license was in, ended in an odd number. You can only get gas on Mondays and Wednesdays. So if you have no gas on Thursday, you got to take the bus to work. I'm sorry.

[Sal Destefano]

And you had to wait in a.

[Justin Andrews]

Line and a long ass line. Some people would wait an hour well into.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'd only get like, like certain news that was national news. You wouldn't get like this state is experiencing this crazy thing that's happening 247 news. They run out of stuff to say internationally even. And it's like, you know, it, it's just like now all the news that's negative, we could have access to every single day.

[Doug]

That. And so it was, it was a good watch for me for that reason. Like, I mean I just clicked it on. The click on. It was like, like Kind of, you know, almost white noise for me. It wasn't like something. And I was. And I'm watching. I'm going, oh, my gosh. Like, you know, if this is way worse, that is what we're experiencing. And on every level, the scare of.

[Justin Andrews]

The dollar, every serial killer, kidnaps, war.

[Doug]

Money, Polish politics, cultural division. I mean, everything you think of that we talk about today, how it is so bad today, housing, interest rates, like, I mean, all those things were way worse back then and crazier. It's just that, like you said, we didn't have Twitter and Instagram to remind you a thousand times every day of every single thing.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, my wife's done this week, God bless her, And I noticed a huge difference. And she. She turns her phone all day. She turns her phone. Yeah. I can't get a hold of her. In fact, if I want to get a hold of her, you know what I got to do? I got to get on our, like, security camera and talk through it to tell her I need to talk to her. So she takes her. She bricks it all day.

[Doug]

Yeah. It's awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

She's done it all week. Yeah. And it's made for her. It's made a huge difference.

[Doug]

That's why my. My. My car trip that you cover is one of my favorite trips. When we. When we drive for eight hours for three days straight.

[Justin Andrews]

That.

[Doug]

Those speeds. I have two hands on the wheel at all times. I never touch my phone. It is. It's in my glove box, plugged in, listening to music while I'm driving, and it's the most. That's one of my. That's why I love it so much. I'm so hyper present and disconnected from the world, and sometimes I need something like that, that forces that. Because it's hard to discipline yourself to just. That's so kudos to her, to just brick your phone on a random.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, that's why I like using the sauna in the steam room.

[Doug]

Yeah, you can't bring it in there.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I can't bring any because it'll break my phone.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So I sit in there and I'm sitting. It's the only time I really effectively do it or just sit.

[Doug]

I mean, I just. I just urge everybody to go watch that show because so much of what we talk about today is just this alarmist about how horrible and crazy and.

[Justin Andrews]

Bad and, bro, do you know me? Serial killers from the 70s, dude, can you imagine social media?

[Doug]

Literally name a thing that you talk about today. Worse that you. That is so bad. Housing, economy, murder, cultural division, war, politic, corruption. I mean it was worse. It was so that's why it's such a good exercise for everyone. And guess what? We're here. We made it. I know we made it all the way to 2026. And that was in seven, I would say 50 years ago.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's the difference that today a lot of our problems are self inflicted, psychological.

[Adam Schaefer]

100% in our head.

[Doug]

100 psychological war. That's. That's why I think it's such a good exercise for you. It's such a good exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you think would happen if everybody turned their phones off most of the time? Do you think we would see a radical change?

[Doug]

Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

In, in mental health. In connection, I think all the problems that we see today that we can label like loneliness, anxiety, depression. I bet you we'd see a sharp.

[Doug]

I think of what they're trying to the school. So I guess they're trying to do that with schools. Right. So according to the teacher that I was talking to. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

My daughter's school does that where they break the phone. She has to put it in a Faraday bag.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

When she gets there. They just started that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So that, yeah. So if that I think that already we're going to see in our youth is a big difference. If they, if they got to break their phones for the whole day of school, that could be a superpower.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's crazy about what we're talking about right now is we're going to hang up these mics. We're all going to get our phones right afterwards. Yeah, that's right. I just called you out. Iron. Sharpened iron guys. That's, that's how crazy addictive this crap is.

[Doug]

Oh yeah. I mean I think that's the reason why we talk about it is I, I'm, I'm fully aware of the pool that it has. You know and I, and I think there's. Because then there's the other side of this. Right. Like I also recognize that our entire business is built off that. This was my top yesterday I got interviewed ironically. It was like a, a menopause show. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

I picked you person.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And it was about like spousal, like getting in shape and the challenge of that. And it ended up going down this whole direction. The direction I took it is like relationship health.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Because if you don't first fix that and you don't have good communication with your partner and you can't come to your partner and say, hey, I I want to make 2026 the healthiest year of our life. Let's agree that we're gonna cook our meals at dinner, you know, and, and start trying to walk every day. And you can't have that conversation with your partner. Like, you're figuring out macros and figuring.

[Justin Andrews]

Out the best of time.

[Doug]

Waste of time.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're right.

[Doug]

You need to solve that first. And so I gave like my whole conversation for an over an hour had we never touched macros and protein intake and, and exercise selection. It was all about relationship hacks that I have found to connect me and my partner.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what? Data blew me away when I first read it years ago. And I found. First read it because of gastric bypass surgery. This is when it got kind of popular in the like early 2000s, late 90s. And it's true, by the way, without gastric bypass, when you have a couple that's over both people are overweight, if one person dramatically improves their health, divorce rate goes up.

[Doug]

I talked about this. I talked about on the show.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of people don't. That's a scary stat for.

[Doug]

Here's what I explained to them, though. I said it's not what you think it is. A lot of people think it's, oh, that person got fit and they got other people attracted that are looking to them. It's not. That is that one chose to grow and the other one.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Doug]

And they grew. And so replace that with anything. Right. You could become a better person. You can get whatever it is. Is that. That one that. That team? Okay. Because you decide when you marry someone that you are one, you're a team. Yes. And so if you've agreed upon that and one of you decides to make this radical change of their life and that in towards being healthier and the other one chooses not to, you just create a distance, the likelihood that they. And if they do, I. I wouldn't even argue the ones together stay together to stay together like that. Like you're saying that the divorce rate is high. It's like how successful is the marriages that just stay together even with that? Because you have a person who is. They've grown apart. And so, yeah, the whole talk was.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't want, by the way, I don't want that data to make someone encourage them then to leave their partner if they're in that stress. Because I've also seen this as a trainer, when one person moves in this direction and the other person doesn't, eventually, sometimes it takes years, sometimes it takes Years. But eventually it bleeds into the other partner and the rest of the family and inspires them. It inspires them. And if you do it lovingly, not controlling, you just do it. And you just. And you don't try to hammer them and force them to do it, and you just do your thing, eventually. I've seen it happen time and time again. You hang in there, you love each other, you love them anyway. They start to follow. So I just want to.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, I know. I agree. Again, back to, like, what I talked so much about were all these little hacks on, you know, I talked about how I surrendered when Katrina and I got together, I surrendered the calendar. I just said, I don't. I don't run the calendar. Like, you tell me where we need to be as a team and stuff like that. Like, I think that's important. Listening to audiobooks together grows us together. Like, getting. Making sure that every other week that we get away without our son or nature. It's like, you do all that, and that forces the. The communication, the connection, the bond to each other. Then it makes the, hey, let's have. Let's eat healthier, or, let's cut out the drinking, or, oh, let's do this thing much easier. If you try and do that and you don't have that, and that person also doesn't care about that, it doesn't land well at all.

[Justin Andrews]

Arthur Brooks gave this great analogy. He said, you know, he said, here's the issue with couples therapy. He goes, you've got a glass with water and dirt in it, and you'll go to therapy and you'll just stir up the dirt. You just keep stirring it up. He goes, what if you did this instead? What if you got a glass of clean water, which is fun together and hanging out together, and you just poured it into the glass? Eventually, what would happen? It's like, yeah, 100%. 100%. Just connect and have fun together.

[Doug]

That is. That is the foundation that a great. And I believe that's analogy, and I believe that's your path. If you're listening and you don't have a partner that is on the same health journey as you is fix the relationship first.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And work on that, because that is going to be the foundation of getting that partner to want to do that with you. And if. And if you try and do it without them or in spite of them.

[Justin Andrews]

It turns into resentment. Yes.

[Doug]

It's really, really hard to do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Organifi is a supplement company that is incredibly good at what they do. They use superfood blends like their green juice or their red juice to help with stress inflammation to make you feel better. The red juice gives you energy. The green juice is good for stress and inflammation. They have a gold juice. This is great before sleep to give you better sleep. They also have vegan protein powders and lots of other products. Third party tested. Very efficacious, clean and healthy. We've been with the sponsor for years because they do such a job.

[Doug]

Good.

[Justin Andrews]

Damn, good job. Go check them out. Go to Organifi.com forward/mind pump. That's O R G A N F I I. Sorry. O r G A n I f I.com forward/mindpump. Use the code mind pump. Get 20% off. Back to the show.

[Sal Destefano]

Our first caller is Scott from Ohio.

[Justin Andrews]

Scott, what's happening? How you doing?

[Adam Schaefer]

What's up, Scott?

[Caller Scott]

Great. How you guys doing?

[Doug]

Good, good.

[Justin Andrews]

How can we help you?

[Caller Scott]

Well, first let me tell you that you guys are role models well beyond fitness and I appreciate everything you do, respect your opinions on a lot of matters. So I have a programming question. I turned 40 this year and I don't really have my question in front of me. It's been a hectic day with kids not being in school for basically three days. This year.

[Doug]

I am.

[Caller Scott]

Last year was like a resurrection for weightlifting with me, and I dove right into Maps Red Advanced, and I really liked it. I saw gains all throughout and I noticed that my appetite was way up and I wasn't afraid to eat. So I just dove right in. Just let my body just kind of tell me what it was good to do. I finished that one up and it was packaged with old time, which I jumped right into that and noticed some major imbalances from left to right and those kind of corrected themselves out throughout the program.

[Justin Andrews]

Nice.

[Caller Scott]

And finished that one up. And I'm not really sure where to go with my 20, 26 goals. Turning 40, if I should maybe dial it back to maybe a 15 or if there's enough juice left in the tank to maybe approach a power lift if need be, or recommend it. So I'm just kind of looking at your advice of where I should go first to just cycle back the anabolic and old time.

[Justin Andrews]

No good. You seem to be in a good place. So you feel good. How's your sleep, energy, all that stuff. How you feeling?

[Caller Scott]

Sleep's pretty consistent. Go to bed between 10 and 11, get up 5 to 6. Energy is all the way up. I average probably about 17,000 steps a day. I would say I work on my feet. I have no problem there with energy. My diet's pretty consistent. I tracked that for a little bit. I'd say about a pound and a half to 2 pounds of protein. I cook for a living, so I make 90 of what I consume, so it's very minimal with processed foods. And like I said, I'm not afraid to eat, so I'm probably north of 3, 000 calories.

[Doug]

So.

[Justin Andrews]

Nice. What about time in the gym? Are you limited on time or is your time like, can you go to the gym?

[Caller Scott]

I get the three days, three good.

[Doug]

To solid days a week.

[Caller Scott]

And then I'm in there mostly seven days. Even if it's just stretching.

[Justin Andrews]

Nice.

[Caller Scott]

Kind of like on my way to work. I just, I make it a point to stop there, just to have that consistency. So there's no limitations there, you know, I mean, kids are with me today, but we did both the gym and work. So let's bring your daughters to work day.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right.

[Justin Andrews]

Nice, dude. Let's do. I think symmetry will be good next. And then if you feel good after that, going to power lift. Lift. Okay.

[Doug]

You used to have a. You used to have a 600 pound squat, so. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Holy. Yeah.

[Caller Scott]

When I was 19, freshman in college. Yeah, I was. I hit it pretty hard when I was young. I sort of started lifting probably 14 and a half to 15 years old. And I would say genetically, it's there. I mean, both my father and my brother, they don't even work out, they're just tanks. So kind of lost it there for a while. But, you know, life happens. So I wanted to pick it back up and kind of get back into it and kind of work on the long term now.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude, I like symmetry. Next. Because you're probably seeing really good strength gains. You obviously got a lot of potential. 600 pound squat at 19 places you in a special category. Yeah. And I would want to go symmetry before power lift because what we're looking at is injury prevention.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

We want to reduce risk of injury. So the potential for injury. Yeah, it goes up as you get stronger. And when you're looking at muscle memory like you. So what you're tapping into is muscle memory. You had a lot of muscle and strength before. Building it back up is a lot easier than it is the first time. And what we want to do is be careful with how hard we push in a particular direction. Symmetry is really good at building muscle, but it's even better at balancing the body out. It'll floodify your Joints, you'll feel good. Old time strength was perfect. I'm glad you did that. Symmetry would be a great follow up. Then you go into Power lift and you'll be hitting some, some big numbers.

[Doug]

Yeah, good. A good rule of thumb for a guy like you who has a lot of like, potential to be moving a lot of weight is to kind of interrupt the, the Power Lift and anabolic type programs with a symmetry or an old timey. Always to like kind of performance or performance. Like to always toggle back, like do power lift hardcore. Go hard after those lifts and then come back to like a symmetry or old timing. Go after anabolic advance and then come back to like a performance, like kind of toggle that. That'll kind of. That'll. That'll keep you from getting hurt. Like, so someone like, if you're my client with that much strength potential, my biggest concern would be going too hard too fast in that direction and then in injury. So as long as we toggled back and forth in that, we should continue to see gains both aesthetically strengthwise, but then also making sure that we protect you all the way.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Caller Scott]

Is there any like certain rest periods between programs or is it when one ends, you can jump into another.

[Doug]

You go right into it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because they take good bridge program.

[Doug]

Yes, yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Between.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, if you felt like you needed a break, there's no, nothing wrong with taking a week or two off. So that's if, if you just feel a little burnt.

[Doug]

But you definitely would do that if you were running programs like Power Lift followed up with Power lift again or Power Lift and followed by Anabolic. Those programs. I would probably want like a deload week from you because they are so hard in that direction. But these ones going to symmetry or going to performance or going to old Timey will interrupt that nicely for you.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome.

[Adam Schaefer]

Great.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll send you symmetry.

[Caller Scott]

Yeah, awesome. Thank you, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it, man. Right on, dude. Thank you.

[Caller Scott]

Keep it up too.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, Scott, Doug, you send them, send him a discount for power lift too, because that would be a good follow up. I think for symmetry we should ask.

[Adam Schaefer]

Them what food he cooks.

[Justin Andrews]

I saw him in the kitchen. I was gonna ask him, like, what, what do you do? Cooks, bro. Listen, you work in a kitchen.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's stress.

[Justin Andrews]

You are moving constantly.

[Doug]

Well, you say up to 22,000 steps a day.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So I look at his notes. He says he's getting 20,000 average 22,000 steps a day. So he's, he's moving.

[Adam Schaefer]

I believe it too.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. I've been in the back and I know because I worked in restaurants for a little bit. I know. You did even more.

[Doug]

Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's just, you're, you're on.

[Doug]

It'd be interesting to. So when he, when you listen to this, Scott, we didn't say it, but at one point he did ask and I wouldn't mind seeing what a Maps 15 would do with someone like this because he's also got, he's got the ex. Athlete. Athlete background. It sounds like a killer at work, like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And so he might be surprised that scaling back on the, the volume and intensity might see amazing results with less work.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's worth experimenting with. It sounded like he got good result from like Anabolic advance though, which was interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

And, and ultimately what he's tapping into is muscle memory.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's. So that's my point. My point is you, a guy like that, with that much potential, with that much training before and strength, you probably could have done any of our programs. And he'd seen great. He's going to see great results because of the muscle memory. So that's why I bring up the fact that it might want to play with a Mass 15 program too.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just to see stress.

[Doug]

Yeah. I mean he's moving a lot, he's doing a lot. And so maybe, you know, he does really well off of that also and surprises himself. So it's worth, it's worth exploring.

[Sal Destefano]

Our next caller is Alyssa from Michigan.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, Alyssa.

[Doug]

How you doing, Alyssa?

[Justin Andrews]

Hello.

[Doug]

Good.

[Caller Alyssa]

How are you guys?

[Justin Andrews]

We're good. How can we help you?

[Caller Alyssa]

This is so weird seeing you guys like in person. Okay, so I'll just read my question. How long? So bear with me. It's kind of like a two parter, but I am a 90s baby and grew up with processed foods and being told egg yolks are bad and carbs are bad, all of that, you know. I also grew up around yo yo dieting. Ended up being overweight most of my school years. Fast Forward to my 20s. I started lifting and became obsessed. I got my personal training certificate through nasm, finding my love of fitness as well. I counted macros to a T for a few years, but with that I was severely undereating. I'm about 5 7. My lowest I weighed was 125 pounds. I ego lifted a lot and ended up hurting my L4 and L5, which kind of still affects me to this day. I know how to manage it for the most part, but I do avoid barbell squats and deadlifts. Besides RDLs, macro counting became obsessive so I stopped doing that and tried to eat clean. Since 2021 I gained a lot of weight from heavy drinking, being in a stressful relationship and using a busy life as a constant excuse. I got to my highest weight of 236 in 2023. I left my relationship, moved home, made a big career change and got my life back together. When I started going back to the gym regularly, I was doing a class that was an all over body class but I really killed myself doing ended up every day and ended up hurting myself. I started doing some other programming written by a trainer at the gym which got better but I still wasn't seeing the results I thought I should be even though I was down £25 at this point. Fast forward to today. I found your podcast at the beginning of the year and binged the last couple months. I Bought Muscle Mommy Maps 15 and Muscle Mommy 15. I was running Muscle Mommy at first. However at the beginning of the year I started a new job. In the last two weeks of the month I'm usually working 12 hour days every day, sometimes 10 hours on Saturdays. I do stand during my overtime so I'm not sitting all day but the rest of the day I am sitting at a desk. I walk during my lunches whether it's outside or running to the gym for 20 minutes. I'm currently running Muscle Mommy 15. When I wrote this I was on week two phase two but now I'm on phase three week two. Um, I'm trying to get 10k steps in a day if not more. I started semi tracking my food again to make sure I'm hitting my protein goals. Um, and I will say you are right, it is like being on steroids actually hitting your protein goals. Um, I am hitting around 2100 calories a day, roughly 160 to 175 grams of carbs, 60 to 80 grams of fat and 175 to 185 grams of protein. I mean a lot of meat now, lots of eggs, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese. I'm not 100% sure on my weight but the last time I checked I was at 210 and I am getting a DEXA scan at the beginning of February. I'm trying to do everything the mind pumped way right now. I'm not studying myself in the mirror, not constantly weighing myself, focusing on protein even on off days, cut back on alcohol and focusing on getting stronger, which I am. I've never felt better and I can do the most weight I've ever done in rdls and bench press right now, which is really awesome. So I just kind of wanted to know firstly if I am on the right track. Am I doing enough? I'm not a busy mom. I don't have kids. I just work a lot and I'm a generally busy person. Am I eating enough? Am I eating too much? My mind is stuck in bad habits from years of body image issues and unhealthy eating habits. How can I continue to also move forward with feeling like I don't need to track my food? I don't want to fall back into unhealthy habits. I want to live and enjoy my life the best and healthy way possible. And my other question also is, is it okay for me to be changing barbell squats from the Maps programs to other squats because of my L4 and L5 issues? I'm definitely afraid to get back under a bar. And I'm wondering what I can do to build that back up eventually.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So the answer to the last question is, yes, you can replace the exercises. You're doing a great job.

[Doug]

You're doing awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

You're doing awesome. Really good job. Really. Just your awareness and how you're posing the question. I think you know what the real challenge is. I think you have a clear. I learned this phrase the other day. I'm sure people have heard it before. It was the first time I heard it, which is a problem that is clearly defined as half the solution. And I think you've clearly defined what the issue has been with exercise and nutrition and all that stuff for you. We want to, if we got to stop focusing on the result, that's number one. If we focus on the result, you're going to end up where you've ended up in the past. You have to focus on the process, but we have to also go even deeper, which is focus on what causes the right process. Okay, so what's going to cause the right process is a good relationship with yourself, your body, exercise, and diet.

[Doug]

So I'll give you.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll give you one step that I think you can take to move in that direction. Okay. I know you said you're drinking less, but I think step one would be to not drink.

[Caller Alyssa]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think you have just based off what you said. So I'm only basing on what you said to me. I don't think your relationship with alcohol is good. And what you're trying to do is manage it, which is like, I got this abusive boyfriend, so Instead of seeing him every day, I'm gonna see him three days a week or something like that. Right. Still. Still not good. And so the potential's there. So is that possible? Can you cut it out completely?

[Caller Alyssa]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, good.

[Caller Alyssa]

I can.

[Caller Eva]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Good. So I'd start there. I'd start there.

[Doug]

That alone is gonna do wonders.

[Justin Andrews]

That alone's gonna do wonders because. And now you want to find alternate ways to comfort yourself for whatever reason why you end up drinking. Find other ways to do. To try to accomplish that. And it's gonna suck at first because alcohol is a great solution for a lot of things sometimes until it's not. So, you know, find something else to replace that with. The second thing is focus on your relationship to yourself and focus on enjoying the workouts for the sake of the workouts itself. That's gonna move you in the right direction.

[Caller Alyssa]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Now. Now I'm giving you this big, general, like, answers. You probably already kind of knew what I was gonna say. You're a perfect candidate. Muscle Mommy grew or coaching, either one. Yeah. You're.

[Doug]

You should be in our muscle mommy group.

[Justin Andrews]

At least. At least. At best, I would want you with one of our coaches. You're a perfect candidate. Yeah. You. L. You told us what your lifestyle looks like. Your responsibilities are work and yourself. You would benefit so greatly from having a guide and then being able to offset some of that trust and be like, okay, let me just follow what you're saying. Let me just do what you're telling me. And within six months, you would make such a radical transformation in your relationship to all this. Literally six months.

[Caller Alyssa]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So I think you're.

[Caller Alyssa]

Which would be amazing. Yeah. Because I'd always feel like I'm questioning, like. And that's how it's always been, you.

[Doug]

Know, you're doing so good. You're doing so good.

[Justin Andrews]

I just want to encourage you just the way you asked your question. You're, like, perfect. Yeah. You're on the right path.

[Adam Schaefer]

You need somebody.

[Caller Alyssa]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

But having the guide there through every step is going to be gold, because you're going to encounter a lot of this, like, am I doing the right thing? Am I going too far? What do I do here?

[Doug]

Should I do more?

[Justin Andrews]

Should I do more? That's a big question. A lot of that's going to pop up. Should I keep doing more? Should I push harder?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller Alyssa]

Because it always feel. And I hear people talk about it all the time on the podcast. It always feels like you're not doing enough when you're someone who is Used to overdoing it.

[Justin Andrews]

When you work with a coach that you trust, then you could just say, fine, I trust you. Yeah, I'll trust you. I'll trust you. And then eventually you don't. You don't have to try to trust them. You just start to trust the process because you see what it's like. And our coaches are. We. We hand pick them, so they're. They're excellent. But you'd be a great candidate for that. But, Alyssa, you're totally. Yeah. Totally on the right track.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, you're doing phenomenal.

[Doug]

It's gonna be an awesome year. It's gonna be an awesome year.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Caller Alyssa]

I hope so. Yeah. I have been feeling amazing, like, the best and strongest I've ever felt. Like yesterday I did the bench press, and I got 125 for my top two sets for all five reps.

[Doug]

Incredible. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Great job.

[Caller Alyssa]

So that felt really good.

[Doug]

You've already done the hardest part. You've got the momentum. You're doing the right things. You're heading.

[Justin Andrews]

You.

[Doug]

This is the. You're on the hardest part already. You already overcame that part. That. Now the accountability piece and a coach who's just going to help guide you through this process just so you don't have any pitfalls. You're going to be. You're going to be great.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Just be.

[Justin Andrews]

Just by the way, you're asking a question and identifying all that stuff. I'm like, oh, my God, she's going to crush with a good coach.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So, yeah. No, great job. Yeah. Now the injury, the L4, L5 injury. Can you be more. Can I have some details on that? What are we talking about?

[Caller Alyssa]

Yeah. So, gosh, I don't remember the first time it happened, but I was deadlifting and I literally just felt it go.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Alyssa]

And so my L4 and L5 popped out of place and my sacrum twisted.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Caller Alyssa]

Basically is how my. Because I went to a chiropractor and they told me, you know, what was going on because I couldn't even hardly walk. Like, I. To get up from the chair, I had to, like, use my hands to walk up my legs. It was really bad. And so I've just kind of been relying on a chiropractor. And then I kind of learned over time, like, you need to strengthen more of those, like, low back muscles and release more of your hip. Hip muscles, because everything's, like, connected. And I was told by one person, you know, you're really tight in your hips and it's pulling. So when you're squatting down, it's pulling, and that's what's making it pop out.

[Justin Andrews]

And do you have, like, a herniated disc? Was there anything on imaging that you saw?

[Caller Alyssa]

There was no herniated discs or anything. I do have, like, a X ray of it of where. And you can see how, like, the two little bones are like, oh, they're not in line.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. This is a muscle issue. This is totally fixable.

[Caller Alyssa]

Okay. Yeah, no herniated disc. Nothing like that. I've gotten checked a couple times.

[Justin Andrews]

That's good news. That's good news. Yeah. I feel pretty confident the trainer's gonna.

[Doug]

Give you good mob. Our trainer's gonna give you good mobility work for you to specifically address this.

[Justin Andrews]

And it sounds like a lateral and rotational stability issue, if I have to guess. So, yeah, I'm pretty confident you'll be able to barbell exercise again with the right correctional exercise, which would be amazing.

[Caller Alyssa]

Yeah, because I. I miss getting under a barbell, and I want to see how strong I am, but, you know, I just. I am, like, deathly afraid.

[Doug]

By the way, this is an awesome goal to focus on for this year. Like, that is, like, we can solve that. We can get to the bottom of this and help you with that. Let's focus on that. Keep doing what we're doing. Take the advice Sal said on the alcohol thing, and I think you're gonna have a hell of a year. Yep, we're gonna have a hell of a year.

[Caller Alyssa]

Okay.

[Doug]

All right, Alyssa, good job.

[Caller Alyssa]

Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys.

[Doug]

Looking forward to checking in with you.

[Caller Alyssa]

Yes. Thank you.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it. All right.

[Justin Andrews]

I love. I love when we heard that from Scott. And by the way, I told that to my wife. She's like, you never heard that before? I've heard that a million times. It's so true. A problem well defined is half solved. Yeah. So you know, and I knew this is. I know this is a trainer. You guys do, too. Like, when you hear someone coming and they're like, listen, I know I have a bad relationship with this. I know I tend to overdo whatever. It's like I get the chills because I'm like, this is going to be great. That's the hard part. Getting a person to understand that stuff can take a lot of time, but if they know, right out the gates, it's like, let's go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just tweak it a little bit.

[Sal Destefano]

Our next caller is Natasha from Hawaii.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, Natasha.

[Doug]

How you doing, Natasha?

[Justin Andrews]

Hello.

[Caller Natasha]

Hi, guys. Wow, life comes at you quick. It's really you.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, how can we help you?

[Caller Natasha]

I just want to say I've been listening to you guys for many, many years and I've learned a lot from you. So I just wanted to start off by saying thank you very much for giving me your time this morning.

[Doug]

Awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you.

[Caller Natasha]

Just so I don't ramble on, I'm going to just read my question. So it's related to looking like I lift. So I've been strength training for about eight plus years. Between three to five times a week consistently I've used programs from you guys. Jordan Syed, Lane Norton, Mike Isratel. I've had personal nutrition and training coaches multiple times over the years. I myself got certified as a nutrition coach and personal trainer just because I love doing this stuff. So I'm confident I've been doing the most important things correctly, like protein intake, consistency in the gym, hitting high intensities, recovering appropriately, and I just don't feel like I look like I lift. So ultimately my question is where might I be going wrong? Trying to get that more defined look. Because even though I don't want to look like a bodybuilder, I do want to look like I clearly lift weights, because I do. So is it just genetics? Is it too much body fat? On Adexa from November, I was at 28.7% body fat. Is it my hormones? I am on the hormonal birth control pill, so my natural estrogen levels are pretty low on labs. So I'm just trying to figure out what more I can do, if anything, to get that more athletic look.

[Justin Andrews]

Gotcha. Gotcha. So I don't have pictures of you, but 9 out of 10 times when I have someone who works in fitness who is telling me that they know what their protein intake, their calories, it's telling me they've been working out for eight years and they say I don't look like I lift. 90% of the time, it's because they don't see themselves accurately. That's 90% of the time. Do you, Let me ask you this. Do you think there's a greater percentage of body dysmorphia in the fitness space than there is in the average population?

[Caller Natasha]

Yes, of course. For sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Now let me ask you this. Do other people think that you look like you work out?

[Caller Natasha]

See that? That's part of it, too. I don't get a lot of. Not that I'm looking for those kinds of comments, but it's not like people say that to me often. It's more if they maybe, like, squeeze my arm or something. They can feel my muscles, but I don't get a lot of comments about them being able to just visibly see my muscles.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But if I were to ask somebody that knows you and I said, hey, does Natasha look like she work out? What do you think they would say?

[Caller Natasha]

I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. And I'm all right. I'm not sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Caller Natasha]

But I just. I feel like there's just certain areas on my body that. That aren't developing the way I would think they would after all my training.

[Justin Andrews]

Good. We're getting more specific.

[Adam Schaefer]

What areas we talking about?

[Caller Natasha]

Delts, glutes, even my biceps a little bit. I'm a strange girl. I like upper body lifts. I like. I would prefer to have bigger delts and biceps. I'm not as the legs. I mean, sure, I would like great glutes, of course, but it's not as important to me. I prefer that my arms look more defined.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, I'm glad you're getting more specific, because sometimes when someone says, I don't look like I lift, and then they start to say, well, here's the areas that I'd like to work on. We're getting a little bit more specific. And you have followed our programs and all that, and you got your body fat tested. You said you were at what, 28, 28.

[Caller Natasha]

28.7.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. So typically, if you were to drop like, 2 or 3%, you'd probably be really satisfied. And there's two ways to do that. One is obviously calorie deficit. The other is to build a little bit of muscle. How? What are your calories? How are they now? What does your activity look like, and what are your calories at now?

[Caller Natasha]

So I'm basically maintaining right now at about 2200. So not super high as far as maintenance, but my protein is about 140 grams a day.

[Caller Alyssa]

I average.

[Justin Andrews]

That's good. When's the last time you did a reverse diet?

[Caller Natasha]

I did one about a year ago. I was in a reverse diet study with Bill Campbell, so I did that about a year ago, but now I'm kind of hovering around 10 to 15 pounds more than my most comfortable weight. So I haven't wanted to do that at this time.

[Justin Andrews]

What was your experience with the reverse diet?

[Caller Natasha]

It was pretty good. I lost about nine pounds, and then they reverse dieted me up, but my calories never got very high. To be honest, I think they maxed me out at about 2,400 before I started Started putting back on some pounds.

[Doug]

Okay, what's your activity level throughout the day? Would you ever track your steps? Do you know how much you're moving?

[Caller Natasha]

I do, yeah. I average about 10,000 steps a day. I lift four times a week. And then every Sunday I try to do like a three mile run just for cardio.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you move. You sound fit.

[Doug]

Yeah, we need to, we need to, we definitely need to increase calories and we need a reverse diet for sure. That's a lot of activity for that low of calories for someone who's lifting that consistently and also know moving that many steps and then also running. So we, we should be able to get your calories up and reverse diet, I think that's would probably be the greatest challenge right now, is coaching you through the process of like increasing, knowing that maybe the scale might go up a little bit and you're. And that. And mess with your head a little bit. But that's what we need to do is to build some muscle right now to build that metabolism to then take you back down to your 2,200 calories and you actually lean out from that because we don't have a lot of Runway at 22 and all the activity you're doing.

[Justin Andrews]

Ye. Where would we end up?

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, I, I could drive you down to 1900 calories and you could lose a couple pounds and maybe a little but maybe a percent of body fat. But then you're eating 1900 calories, you're doing all that activity and you're not going to like the way you feel. So the move is to reverse diet. Focus on getting strong. Don't weigh yourself and mess. Let yourself get in your own way. And I mean, I, if, if this is. You obviously have the knowledge and the experience. And so, you know, I don't know if you're listening to the show right now and I'm coaching Corinne, who is a brilliant trainer, has, knows all. She knows more than me, but I'm coaching her. Okay. So. And it's not because she doesn't know what to do. It's for that accountability piece to help her stay out of her own head. And we're doing the same thing. We're. I'm reverse dieting her right now and I've got her a calorie she's never seen before. And she's constantly texting me how she feels. And I'm saying, you're doing a great job. You look great. We're doing good. Keep going. And I, she knows that if she didn't have me saying that she would go back the other direction. If you think you're somebody like that and you know that about yourself, you would probably get a lot of benefit from having an outside person taking you through that reverse diet and just reminding you you're doing a great job, because that's what we need to do. I would want to get. If you were my client, I'd want to get you all the way up to, like, 2,800 calories, and then I'd want to stair step you down, and we would lean out into the low 20, 20 percentile body fat or wherever you want to stop at. But going from a cut right now where you're at is just. It's not sustainable and you won't be happy.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're active. And how do you feel with your activity? Do you feel healthy? Strong stamina, Good mobility, good?

[Caller Natasha]

Yeah, I feel great, honestly. I have great energy and I sleep really well. Like, everything is super good. Like, I feel great. I just wish that. That I looked more toned. That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, as you move in your arm and I see your arm, I could 100% tell you work out just from on Z. So here's the deal. I would do a reverse diet. I would switch you to a different program with way less volume, because you're probably so consistent that I bet you benefit from reduced volume. I think Maps 15 might be your go. I think it'd be a great program for you to go into, which would be really scary for someone like you because you've been working out for so long. You'll know it's working if you get stronger. By the way, if you do Mass 15 and your lifts start going up, like, keep going. So also, do you have that pro? Can I send that to you?

[Caller Natasha]

That'd be great. I don't have that one.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm gonna send that to you. And I think you should bump your calories. If you want to slowly do it, that's fine. Bump up 100. I don't care. But let's go maps 15 and let's slowly get your calories up and then just see how strong you get. And I bet you'd be surprised.

[Doug]

Just remember what I said about the. The part that, like, why Corinne's got me too. It's not. It's not a lack of. You don't. You don't strike me as a person who has a lack of knowledge in this, but like her, know that you can get in your own way.

[Caller Natasha]

And I agree completely.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you opening to working with a coach again?

[Caller Natasha]

Yeah, I'm always open to working with coaches. I just, I, I just finished working with a strength coach so I'm kind of deciding where to go after that. But trust me, being able to eat 2800 calories and not gain a ton of weight, that's like the dream.

[Doug]

Like, I would love that you could get there. You absolutely get there. You are more than active enough to get there.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally. Tell me about your lifts. How strong are you?

[Caller Natasha]

See, that's, that's the other thing. I, I feel like I have like a, a high floor but a low ceiling because even with my strength I feel like I should be stronger after all of the, all these years. But my, my one rep max on bench is 135. My deadlift is 235. My squad is 200.

[Justin Andrews]

Stop.

[Doug]

Those are great numbers.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Are you comparing yourself to like a power lifter? Come on, dude.

[Caller Natasha]

But no, like I said, I, I know, I know I am stronger than the average 41 year old woman. Like, I know that. I just feel like I could be stronger. I was, I mean.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're 41.

[Caller Natasha]

I've been doing this for a long time and I can't believe I can't hit higher numbers than that.

[Justin Andrews]

Natasha, you're 41. Yeah, I am. You look great. I can tell on your arms when you're next to other 41 year old women.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

How different do you look?

[Caller Natasha]

I don't, I mean.

[Justin Andrews]

Get out of here. I don't know. Stop it.

[Caller Natasha]

Yeah, I mean, I have more muscle mass than them.

[Doug]

I will say you do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you do. Listen, your calories are too low, huh?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Okay. For sure. And look, and you can get your hormones tested if you want to see if that makes a difference. I know you said you're on birth control. 41. You could if you did. If you're open to hormone replacement therapy, that sometimes makes a big difference with women, especially supplemental testosterone. So you could also look in that direction. That can some, that can make a big difference. Sometimes a huge difference. But I'll have a coach call you. But I'm also going to send you Mass 15 and reverse diet. That's, that's what I would do if I was training you. That's exactly what I would, would do.

[Caller Scott]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Caller Natasha]

Well, I trust you guys. I really appreciate all the advice. I will listen and thank you very much for the program.

[Justin Andrews]

And your delts look good through your shirt. You got crazy standards.

[Doug]

You're doing great.

[Caller Natasha]

I like you guys, more than ever.

[Doug]

Now, you're doing great. But I also understand the, the, the what you're asking.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I do.

[Doug]

And it's, and it's. It's a fair question.

[Adam Schaefer]

All the work in.

[Doug]

And if I was coaching you, we would do it. But what we're saying is how you do it, it's.

[Justin Andrews]

What it is, is you're not, not feeding yourself enough.

[Doug]

You are, you are very active. That much training, that much steps and that much movement for that low of calories for someone who's at that strong, too. So. Which tells me you're moving weight in the gym. So you have a high volume. You have a lot of volume. You're doing. You. You are definitely not eating enough. And we got to get. We got to slowly get it up to that. And the ways to do that is to cut back on the volume by going to like a. Maps 15, slowly increase. Get rid of the scale because it's going to. With your head. Okay. So. And this is the coaching part that I, where I like, I would urge you to do that just for that reason. Not because you don't know, but because I, I like, I have to talk to Corinne every week. You're doing great. Yes, I, I know you feel that way. I know. Yeah. But you're doing perfect. I like what I see. I like where we're going. That's it. That's literally like, I'm not breaking any studies down to her. I'm not getting, like, it's just me reminding her she's doing a great job. That's. That would be coaching you right now. And so just consider that. Or if you don't do it on your own, like we're saying, consider that because I think, I think that's all that you're missing to unlock that. If you want to get down to 21, 22 body fat, see separation, you've got plenty of muscle. It's. It's that leaning out a little bit, and we're not in a place calorie wise to cut to lean out. That's just, that's where you're at right now. So we can get there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Caller Natasha]

Okay. Sounds good.

[Justin Andrews]

All right. Thanks for calling in.

[Caller Natasha]

Of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's. It's so tough. God, fitness people are the hardest with this, man. I don't look like I work out. Everybody else is like, you look like you work out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's just the standard. And I get this. Like the other day, I'll just. This is straight. That's how I Felt Adam sends us a video of this dude bench. Was it four? Did you get up to four plates? Yes, he did a four plate bench. Four plate, brought it down, sits up with it and then lays back down and does it again. Now I've been working out since I was 14 years old.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why aren't you comparing yourself Very easily.

[Justin Andrews]

I could look at it and go, I don't feel like it'll work out. You know, it's like, come on, what are you comparing yourself to? But yeah, calories, like you got to feed the machine. Otherwise it's going to, it's going to be limited. It's just not going to go any further.

[Doug]

That really sounds like, I mean, this is it. She's at 10,000 steps a day. She also told us too that she was also running. On top of that, she's got lifts, she's fit. Healthy people have to. Okay, you don't have like, you don't, you don't have to just be. People think sometimes volume like, oh, super set. Lots of exercises seven days a week. Like if she's moving 200 pound squats and 135 pound bench press, she's got decent volume in her workout. So she's.

[Justin Andrews]

The weight makes adds up.

[Doug]

Yes. And so she is. And she's training four days a week. So she's doing a lot. And at 20. 220, 200 calories and she, and she's at 28 body fat. It totally, it's totally fair for her. Even though she looks great, doing great. All things to say, hey, I, I, I, man, for everything I do, I should be 21 body fat. And that's totally reasonable. But the pathway to get there is, is related to nutrition. It's not her programming, it's not that.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's it. First off, a woman that could bench press 135 pounds is in the 1% of strength.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That is not common. I've trained a lot of people. It's impressive, uncommon. If I see any woman benching the, the big wheels and over 200 pounds.

[Doug]

In squats and deadlifts.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, incredible. 235 deadlifts. She said. So she's doing phenomenal. Here's the other thing. A woman with muscle at 28% body fat almost always looks amazing. I know we say that most women are happy in the between 20 to 25% but if you're strong and you got muscle and you're up to 28%, you know what you look like, you look like you got nice curves.

[Doug]

Well, also hey, don't forget this too. Every client I ever had that was on birth control and they come off, it looks like they lose 2 to 3 pounds of water.

[Justin Andrews]

She's also 41. There could be, you know, hormone replacement therapy could definitely make a difference. A little bit of testosterone makes a big difference oftentimes. So that could also make a difference. But, you know, like, what I've seen, I know I've worked with women who, who are in the high 20s, body fat, but we're also strong. They just look amazing. Yeah. You know.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Our next caller is Ava from Missouri.

[Justin Andrews]

Ava, how you doing? Ava, how are you?

[Adam Schaefer]

Hello. Hello.

[Caller Eva]

Hey, how's it going?

[Doug]

Good.

[Caller Eva]

So it's Eva.

[Doug]

Eva.

[Caller Eva]

I usually don't correct people, but I followed you guys for years. It's pretty crazy to be sitting here talking to you.

[Justin Andrews]

You. Nice to meet you. How can we help you?

[Caller Eva]

You too. Happy belated birthday, Justin. If so, I don't forget that.

[Doug]

We did. We forgot.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's all right.

[Doug]

All right.

[Justin Andrews]

No presents.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't, I don't announce it, so.

[Caller Eva]

Yeah, birthdays are just. They're overrated.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, for sure.

[Caller Eva]

All right, I'm gonna jump into this. So I'm. I'm 5 9, about 146 pounds, 51 years old. I've lost 125ish pounds and kept it off about 5 years now. I had labrum and bicep surgery 8 months ago. Lost a ton of muscle trying to rebuild that I love. So I do a lot of backpacking when I can do. I love the TRX concept too. I average about 6,000 steps a day. I. I'm trying to up that, but, like, it's hard with my job. See, I have maps, starter maps, 15 maps, 15, 40 plus. I try to hit my protein target. Like, that's big for me. I take fish oil, creatine, the Legion gummies, magnesium citrate, vitamin D, 3, biotin tart cherry gummies. And I just got my first seeds order yesterday in the mail, so I'm excited for that. Yeah. So, you know, my big goal is long term health. I want to stay healthy, protect my joints, and be able to hike and chase grandkids around someday, hopefully. I. I just really would love your advice on what I should be focusing on. I tend to like information overload, so I've. I've stopped following everybody but you guys and like Lee Norton. Man, it's crazy. I. I've drank so many, many jugs of Kool Aid over the years. Keto games, street parking, Rip a toe. Like, I've, I've done it all. So I'm just like, I need these guys that just like set me straight.

[Justin Andrews]

I love it.

[Doug]

You actually look incredibly healthy and sound. Sound very healthy.

[Justin Andrews]

You did a great job. How did you lose all that weight? What'd you do, man?

[Caller Eva]

Well, a big calorie deficit, which looking back, I'm like, I knew better. You know, I went. I spent thousands of dollars being like a primal health coach. Fell for that. And not to coach people just because, like, I love information. I just love learning stuff. So a calorie deficit, which I knew better and just like a ton of backpacking, but I lost a lot of muscle because I wasn't hitting my protein because I had to keep my calories so low. You know, it's just.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, good job. Yeah, well, good job. You're in a good place.

[Caller Eva]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And how often are you backpacking now?

[Caller Eva]

When I can, every other weekend. But like, I. I hike every week.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. And how long are your hikes and how often?

[Caller Eva]

10 miles, maybe 12 miles, something like that. When I backpack, it's usually like 40 plus miles. Pretty, pretty hard. Pretty strenuous. Ozark mountains. Yeah. I have a gym in my basement that, you know, I have a squat rack, TRX treadmill.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you're bands. No, you're good. Listen, okay, so every other week you do the hiking when you can, which is the 40 mile one. And then every week you're backpacking, which is like you said like 10 miles. And that's like once, right? Once that week.

[Caller Eva]

Yeah, I try. Not every week. I try.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so yeah, you're gonna live in the Maps 15 protocol. That's your programs always place. And we have enough of them where you just cycle through, compliments it. That's your strength training. Yeah. Hit your protein targets and enjoy your hikes. And I would say the only place that would change anything is on those weeks where you're not getting those hikes. Try to get your steps up.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, just get your steps up throughout the day. So you know.

[Doug]

Or your treadmill.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So you get a good little incline hike on the treadmill if you have to.

[Justin Andrews]

That's it. And don't over.

[Doug]

Yeah, I imagine you do.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially somebody who likes. Likes to do it outside. And don't overthink anything. Just. We have now we have maps 15. Muscle mommy, maps 15. Power lift. The original maps 15. We have maps 15. Symmetry performance. Symmetry strong. Those are your programs. Just cycle through them. Yep, that's it. Don't Overthink it. Just cycle through. That's your strength training. And then the rest of the stuff you do, just go have fun, hit your protein targets and you're good. You're good.

[Caller Eva]

Okay, I have a question for you as far as like the concept too. I really like that. So the treadmill is just so boring to me. But I do, I throw on my backpack that I, that I go backpacking with and it's got about £20 in it. 15 to £20. And I'll get on the treadmill with that. But on the days that like, can I substitute some of the mileage, you know, my steps. Daily steps with the concept too. Like how would I, I guess with meters or.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's fine. Just time. Okay. You just do it for time. And because we're talking about steps, it's a low intensity. So if the intensity goes up, then the time is going to go down. Right. So if you're like, okay, if I were to do 4,000 steps, that would be like a 45 minute walk, then I'll do a 45 minute low intensity concept too. But if it's high intensity, you're looking at 15, 15, 20 minutes.

[Caller Eva]

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller Eva]

Okay. And one more quick question if I can.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller Eva]

So I have a lot of food noise still from being, you know, I've always been heavy. I, yo. Yo. Dieted. I fell for the whole, you know, health at every size thing. Like even that I'm like, I'm gonna be fat and happy. It got me. All right. But so I was thinking about microdosing with like tirzepatide, just, just for the food noise I heard. Like that can be beneficial. What's your take on that?

[Justin Andrews]

We've had experts on the show that have talked about the benefits of doing those things. It is, it is a medication.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And some people, especially when they're healthy, are, are very sensitive to it. Very, very. So even a micro dose for some people just shuts down. Yeah.

[Doug]

Do you have any idea where your calories are at right now?

[Caller Eva]

It's a slippery slope when I try to track, but I, I probably too low. They're probably about 1800.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, no.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. So then I, that, that's the reason why I asked because that you're, you're not someone who I think would be a candidate for that. I wouldn't want.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You know why?

[Doug]

Because what, what can happen even on a microdose. So I don't know if you remember when I to. Went through the whole process and, and, and shared my Whole journey, like even a micro dose would, would tamp my calories down a lot. And if you're only, if you're at 1800 and it tamps it down even the slightest bit, putting you down into 15, 1600 calories with the amount of activity you're doing, I don't want you eating more calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you know why you have food noise right now?

[Caller Eva]

You know, I, I really don't. Other. I've just always been.

[Justin Andrews]

I know why overweight. I know why you're, you have that food noise. Your calories are too low. Yeah. You're hungry.

[Doug]

Oh, probably, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

If you're hiking 40 miles every other week and then every other week 10 plus your. Plus you're lifting 1800 calories is low. That's why you have food noise.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

You got to eat more.

[Caller Eva]

What should I be at?

[Justin Andrews]

Like, I would. Listen, I would bump you up to two to start with. And you're probably going to end up in the, in the low to mid 2000s with that activity. And you just, you could do it controlled and slow just if you're, if you're afraid. But bump it up and what you'll notice is you're stronger. You're just going to be stronger when you work out and have more energy. Okay, but 1800 calories is too low.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're low.

[Caller Eva]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You're five nine. Didn't you say you're five nine two? Is that what you said? Five nine?

[Caller Eva]

Yes, yes.

[Doug]

Yeah. You're tall too. Yeah. Yeah. You're not a little tiny, tiny little thing.

[Caller Alyssa]

No, I'm not.

[Doug]

You definitely, you definitely need more calories. And that's what you, what you hear right now is your body trying to tell you like, hey, feed me. We're doing a lot of shit, by the way.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, with a lot of activity and calories that are not sufficient. You also run the risk of things like osteopenia. And you'll see this in people that strength train even because their calories are just not sufficient. So, yeah, feed yourself a little bit. You know, if you don't want to track what it can look like is when you feel hungry, have a high protein meal. That's whole foods that you go for. Okay.

[Caller Eva]

So yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh my God. Where's that. I got that food noise again. But you've got a pre made 300 calorie or 200 calorie high protein meal. Eat that.

[Caller Eva]

Yeah, yeah, I try to do that. I try. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But I think you're just probably afraid of food because of all the weight that you had lost.

[Caller Alyssa]

For sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, for sure. I get it. I get it.

[Doug]

But. Yeah, but you need a fuel though. You need to feel. Because Sal's right. You're not. You're active. You're active. Yeah, I know, I know. We're talking about here some days where you're not getting six up, but if someone who hikes as long as you hike and, and, and move in your, your, your height, you need to be up, you need to be up there. Mid 2000s is where I'd want to get you up to.

[Justin Andrews]

And you have maps 15. Doug said you have mass 15 and mass 1540 plus. Let me send you another one. So let's see, which one should we send her?

[Doug]

Fellow 15 performance. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because of the hiking. I'm going to send you Mass15 performance.

[Caller Eva]

Okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it?

[Doug]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it.

[Doug]

Keep us posted. I'd like to hear how this journey goes for you. Start, start reversing those calories up a little bit.

[Justin Andrews]

That.

[Caller Eva]

I'll do that. Thank you, guys.

[Doug]

All right.

[Caller Eva]

All right. See you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Once she said her collar. I'm glad you asked.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

For her activity. Strength training.

[Doug]

I mean, I can see it on her. She, she looks, she actually looks pretty help. I mean really healthy and lean. And I knew, I remember hearing her say five, nine. So she's tall.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And that's a lot of activity. And like, and then saying, you need suzepicide. I'm like, you don't look like someone who needs reception. Yeah. And. And then when she said the cow. Oh, God, no. Definitely no.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. That's not food noise. That's just normal.

[Doug]

That's your hunger. Your body's like, we just did a 40 mile hike. I need about 8,000 calories.

[Justin Andrews]

My calories are low. I got a lot of food noise.

[Doug]

Think about that. A 40, a 40 mile hike. I mean, I'm just trying to in my head do some quick, quick back of the napkin math. The amount of calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh my God.

[Doug]

Just to support the hike alone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And so the next day too.

[Dr. Z]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

A 10 mile hike is like.

[Doug]

Well, yeah. I mean, 40 miles.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's substantial.

[Doug]

That's a long. That's a long hike.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. How long are you hiking? That's like a, that's an old.

[Doug]

That's an all day hike. Right?

[Justin Andrews]

Seems like it might even be two days.

[Doug]

Give me, give me. Yeah, give me, give me.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a two day hike, bro. You're hiking a lot for two days.

[Doug]

Yeah. You're talking, you're, you're talking about your body needing like 10, 20, 000 calories. Yeah, yeah, like that. It just needs to do the thing you just did, which means. And then if you go back and then you go right to eating 1800, your. Your body's going like, yo, we're way behind. Help me out. Yeah, so is that. What are you doing? Are you. Did you look it up?

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, I just know people like.

[Doug]

Oh, you probably chat GB real quick, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Walking a marathon would take you seven hours. Six. I mean, so. And that's a marathon. That's walking flat surface hiking. Yeah. That's two days. She's hiking in and back and getting there late.

[Doug]

Yeah. Camping and then hiking and only eating 1800 calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Way low. So it's a way, way low.

[Justin Andrews]

Low.

[Doug]

That's why I'm like, wait a second.

[Justin Andrews]

This is.

[Doug]

She's beyond low. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Two to four days.

[Doug]

Oh my God.

[Sal Destefano]

20 miles per day.

[Doug]

Oh my God. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude, you.

[Doug]

She needs to be, she needs to be mid to high. 2000s.

[Justin Andrews]

Consistently.

[Doug]

Consistently. Yeah, yeah, big time. That's. That's what's going on right now. And. Oh yeah, that's. And her poor, poor body. That's not food noise. That is like, I.

[Justin Andrews]

We're starving hungry.

[Doug]

Yeah. Help us out.

[Justin Andrews]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at Mind Pump Media.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.