2794: How to Catch Fire for Fitness! (Fall in Love With it and You'll Always Do it.)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2794 — How to Catch Fire for Fitness! (Fall in Love With it and You'll Always Do it.)

Release Date: February 14, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this engaging, wide-ranging episode, the Mind Pump crew tackles the elusive “secret” to making fitness a lifelong habit: falling in love with it. The hosts draw deeply from their collective coaching experience, share vivid client stories, and debate the industry’s heavy focus on aesthetics versus the true, sustainable rewards of fitness. The show then pivots through calls from listeners seeking individualized advice, covering nutrition roadblocks, postpartum training, fasting for spiritual reasons, and mastering the “last 10 pounds” challenge. True to Mind Pump form, the conversation is energetic, unfiltered, practical, sometimes hilarious, and deeply motivating.

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Main Discussion: The Real Secret to Lasting Fitness Motivation

Finding Love for Fitness (02:48–13:00)

• Sal kicks off with a bold statement:
  “Here’s the real secret. If you fall in love with [fitness], you never stop doing it. Duh… but it’s a hard thing to do. We’re going to talk about that.” (02:48, Sal)

• Do you have to be “born” for it, or can anyone learn it?

  • Adam: “Everybody can fall in love with it. I think of it a lot like the same misunderstanding I had around falling in love with a person… love is a choice, it’s action. It takes action.” (05:43, Adam/Schafer)

  • Justin: Discusses the “self-fulfilling” belief that you’re “not the kind of person” who loves fitness, but says the right path or modality can change that. (04:56, Justin)

• Building the relationship:

  • Adam: “If I have a client in front of me who says, ‘I hate to work out,’ I say, ‘Okay, tell me what you love.’ And every other aspect of your life, the healthier version of you enjoys that thing more. Let’s connect those dots.” (07:35, Adam)

  • Sal reframes fitness as a relationship that matures, not a shallow affair:
    “If you do it the right way, the relationship develops into one that enhances… the rest of your life.” (09:02, Sal)

Why People Fall Out of Love: The Industry's Seduction with Looks (09:00–16:00)

• Overemphasis on appearance:
  Sal criticizes how fitness is sold: “The industry oversells, by far, one effect of being fit: how you look. That becomes the only value. The only reason I work out is because I want to look this way… this relationship becomes a toxic one.” (10:41, Sal)

  • Reflects on Arthur Brooks’ happiness research:
    “If you spent all your time and money going from a 6 to a 9 [in looks], your happiness would barely change, if at all. We’ve taken the side effect, put it way up here, and said, ‘this is why I work out’—it’s going to let you down.” (11:01–12:00, Sal)

• The gorilla in the room metaphor:

  • Sal shares the famous basketball-passing/gorilla experiment to illustrate: “If all you focus on is looks, you’ll miss all the other wonderful things that are happening. You’ll never develop a complete relationship with fitness.” (13:00, Sal)

The Tested Path: Real-Life Stories & How to “Catch Fire” (15:00–18:30)

• What keeps people working out for life?:

  • Sal describes interviewing 60–70-year-old gym regulars who cite mental clarity, happiness, community—not appearance—as their motivation:
    “That was never the answer. It was always, ‘I like how I feel. Gives me mental clarity. Purpose to get out of bed. Makes me happy.'” (15:54, Sal)

• Sales pitch for deeper focus:
  “If you focus on all those other things… the side effect that will occur is the physical changes you want. But the main effect is you develop a relationship [that] you’ll never stop.” (15:54, Sal)

  • Adam: “You unlock something really special that motivates you, because when you reach peak physical looks, it’s short-lived… but the benefits—sleep, mood, relationships, productivity—these are what keep you going.” (22:55, Adam)

Connecting Fitness, Money, and Meaning (18:13–23:20)

• Adam draws a parallel between chasing money and chasing body goals: “If you’re always pursuing more and don’t realize money is just a tool—to buy back time, to give, to create security—you move the goalpost, never happy.” (18:13, Adam)
• Sal: “Buying things is the worst way to buy happiness. Giving to others gives you happiness every time you think of it for the rest of your life. Buying something will never do that.” (19:11, Sal)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Loving Fitness

• “If you fall in love with it, you never stop doing it. Duh.” (02:48, Sal)
• “Love is a choice… If you are waiting to fall in love with fitness, you may never find it. It takes action.” (06:11, Adam)
• “No one ever says, ‘I just love my biceps.’ It’s always, ‘I like how it makes me feel. It gives me purpose.’” (15:54, Sal)

On Chasing Aesthetics

• “We’ve taken the side effect [looks], put it way up here… it’s gonna let you down.” (12:00, Sal)
• “If you reach a level of peak physical looks and fitness, it’s cool when you get there—but it’s short-lived.” (22:26, Adam)

On Building Sustainable Motivation

• “Connect your fitness to the things you already love. Good coaches do that; they help you see how health makes everything else better.” (09:02–09:52, Adam)
• “Do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. That’s what you’re doing.” (94:48, Adam, coaching a caller)

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Listener Call-Ins: Key Coaching Segments

1. Nicole from California: Nutrition Mindset Hurdles (70:31–84:14)

Context: Nicole is strong, consistent, but struggles with tracking and cutting without mental stress; wants to lose ~4% body fat (28–29% → 24–25%).

Key Coaching Points:

• No major health gain to drop from 28% to 24% body fat if already fit and strong. (75:05, Sal)
• “A lot of people don’t like tracking. There are ways to coach without tracking… It’ll look like, ‘Take a couple ounces out here,’ small tweaks.” (75:53, Sal)
• Adam recommends the “concierge” program: monthly check-ins with a coach, focusing on small, manageable tweaks, not strict tracking. (77:29, Adam)
• Activity lever: With 13,000 steps/day already, can't increase steps for further deficit; focus will be on gentle nutrition changes and individualizing strength training. (80:53, Adam)
• “The belief that if you look shredded, your life is dramatically better—it’s not true. To go from unhealthy to healthy, big difference. From healthy to shredded? Not so much.” (85:50, Sal)

2. Alex from Massachusetts: Postpartum Comeback (86:22–95:37)

Context: Used to train hard/run marathons, now postpartum with two young kids, wants a sustainable comeback.

Key Coaching Points:

• Sal: “Assume your body’s not the same for two years after the last child. You’ve got to do less than you think.” (88:04, Sal)
• Programming:
  • Start with MAPS Starter for 3 months (basic, gentle, focus on pelvic floor/core).
  • Then MAPS 15 for three months.
  • Only then progress to more advanced work.
• Avoid running postpartum until core/pelvic floor recruitment is restored.
• “You’re going to feel like superwoman two weeks in, but don’t ramp it up. Stay patient!” (94:24, Sal)
• Creatine: Up dosage to 10g/day for brain benefits, split into two doses.
  • Protein: 130g/day is a good target (at her current weight).

3. Sarah from Tennessee: How to Fast Without Losing Muscle (96:32–103:32)

Context: Lifelong athlete, wants to incorporate spiritual fasting without sabotaging her muscle mass.

• Sal: “If you fast for spiritual purposes, but try to hack around muscle loss, you’re missing the point. God knows your heart.” (98:18, Sal)
• Adam: “If you’re lifting and hit macros/protein 6 days a week, you’re fine. One day with only water won’t cost you muscle.” (99:06, Adam)
• Other ways to fast: try fasting from electronics, news, etc.
• “It's more dangerous for me to fast from electronics than food!” (101:54, Sal & Adam)

4. Natalie from Oregon: Mastering the “Last 10 Pounds” Cut (104:35–116:49)

Context: Been through bulks/cuts, struggling to get past the last 10 pounds, doesn’t want to lose muscle. Maintenance ~2,800 cal; wants to lean out for anniversary trip.

Key Coaching Points:

• Often, cutting too aggressively causes as much (or more) muscle loss as fat loss. (106:16, Adam)
• For women already lean and strong, must “play a game of mini cut/mini bulk” to trick body past homeostasis.
• For Natalie (based on her calories, strength, and leanness):
  • Gently drop to 2,600–2,700 cal/day; try for 10,000 steps/day (currently at ~8,500).
  • Change program for novelty (try Muscle Mommy or Powerlift).
  • Add “stomach vacuum” exercises to draw in waist and improve core.
  • “Stay the course, don’t go dramatic. You’re gonna see great changes if you stay patient.” (113:49, Adam)

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Tangents & Memorable Banter

• Industry Conspiracies & Food Chat (24:00–30:00):
  The hosts riff on bizarre findings about US food (cheese rennet made by pharma companies?) and wonder why foods in Europe often don’t trigger intolerances as they do in the US.

  • “I eat cheese every day. And a drug company’s making my cheese…” (25:05, Adam)

• Parenting & Bullying Stories (43:45–49:51):
  Heartfelt (and hilarious) stories about coaching their own kids through bullying, and why confidence and compassion matter more than fighting fire with fire.

  • “You remind him his parents don’t love him… yeah, that should handle it, probably up to about 6th grade.” (50:21, Adam, joking)

• Cooking at Home & “Ingredient Households” (61:04–62:01):
  Justin introduces the idea of “ingredient households” where everyone cooks from basic ingredients together. Sal: “We’ve lost the art of cooking together—it’s one of the best ways to bond with your kids.”

• Collectibles, Card Openings & Middle-Aged Humor (63:03–67:00):
  Jokes about getting older (lists of dad-gifts: Velcro shoes, Tiger Balm, etc.), and the “turnoff” of grown men watching others open baseball cards on YouTube.

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Guidance and Mind Pump Philosophies (Interwoven Throughout)

• Find and stoke love for fitness—not just discipline.
  “It is possible for anyone to learn to love fitness. It’s about action and connecting it to the things that light you up outside the gym.” (Various, Sal/Adam/Justin)

• Aesthetics are a side effect, not the main effect.

• The value of a great coach:

  • Helping you connect health to core motivations.
  • Making only the minimum necessary changes for maximum benefit.
  • Encouraging patience, consistency, and gradual progress.

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Key Segment Timestamps

• [02:48] – Main theme: How to fall in love with fitness
• [05:43] – Is love for fitness innate or learnable? (Adam)
• [09:02] – Fitness as a relationship (Sal)
• [10:41–13:00] – Toxic focus on looks, lasting motivation
• [15:54] – Stories from 60–70yo gym regulars (Sal)
• [22:55] – Real-world coaching: what keeps people going (Adam)
• [70:31–84:16] – Caller Nicole: Nutrition mindset, non-tracking approach
• [86:22–95:37] – Caller Alex: Postpartum fitness reboot, patient programming
• [96:32–103:32] – Caller Sarah: Fasting and muscle preservation
• [104:35–116:49] – Caller Natalie: The “last 10 lbs,” slow progress is best

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Recap: Mind Pump's Formula to “Catching Fire” for Fitness

1. Shift your focus away from aesthetics to the daily, unglamorous victories: feeling capable, clear, happy, and confident.
2. Meet yourself (or your clients) where you are. Build bridges between fitness and the core things that matter in life.
3. Accept that love is a verb, not a passive sensation. Keep taking action, however small.
4. Reframe “discipline” as a product of passion, not brute force. When you enjoy the benefits, you’ll want to keep going.
5. Be patient and trust the process—gradual, individualized change is what lasts.

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Follow the Mind Pump team for more science-backed, myth-busting fitness content!

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

At the UPS Store, we know being.

[Nicole (Caller)]

A small business owner means holiday time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is still go time, still get those orders, ship time and still re up on stamps and supplies time. That's why this upcoming holiday, while others close up shop will be open and happy to help you keep being unstoppable. Come into your local store today. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, pricing and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. The UPS Store Be Unstoppable.

[Adam Schafer]

Unstoppable.

[Justin Andrews]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Justin Andrews]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the universe. That's us. Mind Pump. Now today's episode we coached people live on air. We had callers call in. We got to help them with their health and fitness. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 67 minutes long. Now in the intro we talk about fitness and fat loss and health, current events, family life. It's always a great time. If you want to be on an episode like this where you can call in, we get to help you live. Here's what you do. Go to mplivecaller.com, submit your question there. Now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Kion. Today we talked about their essential amino acid supplement. These are capsules. Take them throughout the day if you especially beneficial when you're in a calorie deficit to hold onto muscle. Adam today talked about his experience and what he's seen using them on a regular basis. Anyway, they have lots of other supplements and if you go through our link you'll get 20% off. Head over to getkeon.com that's G-E-T K-I-O-N.com mindpump this episode is also brought to you by Butcherbox. This company's great. They deliver grass fed meats, heritage pork, wild caught fish and more to your door. These are high quality meats sent to you by mail in a box with dry ice. So it's frozen and it's high quality and the prices are incredible. Head over to them and get yourself a hookup. Here's what you do. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump if you go on that link and you're a new user, you'll get your choice between organic ground beef, chicken breast or ground turkey included in in your box for free for an entire year. We also Have a new workout program bundle. It's called the couples bundle. It's maps, aesthetic maps. Hit Maps, Muscle mommy and then OBS six pack formula. Entire bundle is over 50% off. Go check it out. Go to MP Valentine dot com. All right, real quick.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, we're going to talk about the real secret to fitness. Here's the real secret. If you fall in love with it, you never stop doing it. Duh. But it's a hard thing to do. We're going to talk about that. How can you fall in love with fitness? How can you catch fire for fitness so it becomes your thing, then you never have to worry about stopping. You love it. Let's get into it. That's the secret. Yes, it is.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Love it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, have you guys ever met, Ever met somebody that genuinely loves fitness who doesn't do it? No, no, no. Yeah, that's it right there.

[Adam Schafer]

What do you think? Do you think that the people that do fall in love with it were like, kind of like meant to fall in love with it, or do you think that anybody can learn to fall in love with it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Such a great question. Such a great question. If I didn't train people for 20 years, I would have maybe thought it was the first one. But I trained enough people over 20 years, and it took me the last of the back half of that, because the first half of that, I wasn't good at this. But the back half of this of my career, the last 10 years, this started to become the focus. This is where I placed my energy, and it became a success story. And a good. A large percentage of my clients, the majority of them in the back half, I got them here now. They didn't become fitness fanatics. There's a difference. A fitness fanatic is actually somebody who struggles with working out too much, who struggles with it becoming too high of a priority. And these people tend to work in fitness. When I talk about falling in love with fitness, it's like, you know, I had a good. And I know you guys did, too. We talked about this, where I got pretty good at getting people who struggled with being consistent through training and coaching and working with me over the years to where they loved it. It was a part of their life, and they never stopped to this day there's many of these people that I'll see or talk to who still work out who. I remember when they hired me, it was an on, off again struggle. So you can do it. You definitely can do it.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah. I think the general public, I'm sure there's that sense like when you kind of propose that question where their perception of the gym is like, well, they love it already and these people are already gravitating towards it. I just, I'm just not that kind of person. And it's like this self fulfilling kind of justification when in fact, yes, it, they, there's. And I think that's, that's always been sort of something I've wanted to address is like, what are the different ways we can present it? How, how many different angles can we find to, you know, for that one thing to really resonate to that person? That yes, it is for you, it's literally for everybody, but we have to find that pathway for you that it makes sense for you to get in and enjoy it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

100%. Everybody can fall in love with it. And I think of a lot of it like the same misunderstanding that I had around falling in love with a person. There was a misunderstanding around that too. I think a lot of times people walk around and they think they're just going to meet Mr. Or Mrs. Right and this overwhelming feeling, you'll just know, you'll know will happen, but feeling's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Always going to be there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, it, it. And I remember later in my adult life learning that love is a choice. It's action. And so can. If you are waiting to fall in love with fitness because you don't right now and you don't choose to love it, then you may never find it and you'll never happen for you. And so it takes action. You have to start to take action. And what, to Justin's point, maybe the, the, the way that you tried to fall in love with it, the modality, the extreme dieting, the, the trainer or person who sent you in the wrong direction or who didn't meet you, where you were at, convinced you that loving fitness wasn't for you. No, it's not true at all. We just need to figure out where you're at, meet you where you're at, connect the dots to the other parts of your life than maybe the, the, the ones that you don't care about or the ones that you've been misled about. There's so many other things that, I mean every other aspect of your Life, the healthier version of you enjoys and that thing more. So let's take the exercise, nutrition part out of it. And so if I have a client in front of me says, I hate to work out, I hate. I hate exercise. I hate fitness. Okay, tell me what you love.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I love spending time with my kids. I love to travel. I love to play basketball. I love to like you.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Love all these other nature, whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, so my defense to health and fitness is that all those things that you just love, do you really love those things? Guess what? I can enhance all of them.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Your relationship with your kids, your relationship with your spouse, when you travel and go places, all these other things that you've already agreed or decided that you love, the healthier, stronger, fitter version of you enjoys all those things, exponentially magnified it. So if you can learn to find a way to live a healthier, fitter, stronger life, even though maybe you don't enjoy going to the gym and you don't enjoy sacrificing the wine every night or exercise, what you will enjoy are the results from that and how it impacts the other things in your life, which then tends to result in maybe I do like this thing a little bit more. So I absolutely believe that everybody, even somebody listening who thinks they hate exercise or hates working out and nutrition or making food, healthy food choices, you absolutely can learn to love it. The key and what good coaches do is they help those people connect the dots to the things that those people have already agreed they love and how pursuing a healthier version of themselves makes all those things so much better.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I like what you said about, like, you know, loving an individual, because that's what you're talking about is a relationship. And what do we refer to when we talk about fitness? It's a relationship. It is a relationship that you build with it. And if you do it the right way, you. The relationship develops into one that enhances what perfectly said Adam, enhances the rest of your life. So I love that example. I think that's a very accurate example. I think one of the challenges with this is that the media and industry part of fitness oversells, by far oversells One of the effects of being fit and healthy, which is how you look now, That's a real effect. It's a visible effect. It is a real effect. If you're fit, the fit and healthy version of you looks different than the less fit, less healthy version of you, and you tend to be leaner, you've got better muscle Maybe you look more attractive, you know, you look more vibrant. Maybe you look more youthful. That's true. But what we've done is we've sold that so heavily that that becomes not just one of the many values, but it becomes the best value or worse, the only value. The only reason why I work out is because I want to look this way. The only reason I work out is because I want to look more attractive, because I want to lose body fat, to look a particular way, because I want to look younger. And when you do that, this relationship you build with fitness will become a toxic one.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, it's exactly parallel to relationship with another person.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

The most shallow version of that relationship is just to focus on. On their looks and, and that feeling you get by being attracted to them. How long does that last?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

And how, you know, what can you build off of that?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's. It's.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

It's a very narrow scope.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's. Here's what they've done is that, by the way, it's not just the fitness industry. All industries will. You know, sex sells. That's what they say. Right. What they're really referring to is attractiveness, beauty, or what we would consider to be youthful beauty. In fact, that's all we think of as now as beauty, is this youthful beauty. And all industries sell that so much that the idea is if I look a particular way, I'll have this dramatic improvement in my life. By the way, the data doesn't support this at all. At all. I remember Arthur Brooks, who's a Harvard professor, expert on happiness. Wonderful man, but he's an expert on this. And he said, if you were on a scale of 1 to 10 of beauty, like physical beauty, if you were a 6 and you spent all your time, money, and energy going from a six to a nine, your happiness level would barely change, if at all. So it's actually. They oversold it to us, everybody. Not only did they oversell it to us, but it's actually the side effect. It's not the main effect. The main effect of fitness is not the way you look. The way you look is actually a side effect. And so what we've done is we've taken the side effect, put it way up here, and said, this is why I'm working out, and this is why I'm eating healthy. And it's gonna let you down. It's gonna let you down. And hey, by the way, God forbid you actually achieve what you think that ideal is. You're gonna really find out it Sucks. And you may actually become addicted in a way that's very unhealthy, which we see in the fitness industry represented by many fitness influencers who are communicating this terrible message. So the key to, to how to catch fire for fitness starts with this. It starts with realizing all of the non visual, non esthetic, non beauty based benefits of fitness. Now you might think to yourself when I'm saying that, like, well, yeah, duh, like, okay, of course there's lots of other benefits. No, no, no, we only notice what we focus on. This, this is a, this is a psychological fact that's been tested many times. This is famous study that I've shared many times on the show. You could watch it on YouTube. I'm going to give it away now, so it's not going to work on you because I'm going to give you the secret to it. But there's this famous video where you've got 10 people passing a basketball to each other back and forth. And as you watch the video, there's a professor that comes out before it starts and he says, count how many times the ball is being passed. And so you watch the video and you count like one time, two times. And as they're passing the ball, these participants are walking around each other. So it kind of looks, you gotta really pay attention who's passing the ball. At the end of the video you expect the professor to come out and say, how many times did the ball get passed? And you've got your number, you know, 14 or whatever. And he says, did you see the gorilla? You're like, what? They rewind the video and you'd see for the first time a man in a gorilla suit walks right through the group. You didn't even notice it. Walks right in front of your view, right in front of your vision wasn't registered because you were only paying attention to the ball being passed. In other words, if you're working out and you're the main reason, the thing that you want, the thing that you're focusing on is how I look. All you're going to notice is that you're going to miss all this other wonderful things that are happening. And you will never develop a complete relationship with fitness. It will never develop into a long lasting, forever relationship. It just won't. My favorite people to talk to on this specific subject were always my members that used to come into my gyms who were in their 60s and 70s, who were consistent. I used to love talking my favorite members. And you would see them because you would know who they were not just because they looked fit, but because they were so consistent. They were like your regulars. Like, you'd come in typically in the morning, sometimes late morning, and. And I'd see them come in five days a week or something, or four days a week, and I'd see them come in. They're super consistent, like clockwork. They're retired. And they'd show up, great attitude. They'd come and do the same. They do a workout, leave. And so when you're managing a gym, if you're a good manager, you want to know your members, right? It's like, this is my home, and so I want to know the people. So I'd start talking to these people. And being a fitness guy, I was always curious. And the number one question was always like, how long have you been doing this? And what do you love about it? Because I was just curious, like, man, you're. You look like you're in your 60s. I'm guessing, you know, that's what I'm thinking. And you're so consistent. You look great. You got all this energy. Like, how long have you been doing this? And I would always ask, hey, man, how long you been working out? 40 years, 50 years? 30 years? I'd be like, whoa, why do you keep doing it? What do you love about it? And I would expect them to say things like, you know, I like my biceps, or I'm jacked or makes me look good. That was never the answer. That was never the answer. It was always something like, oh, man, I like the way I feel. Gives me so much mental clarity.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

It's like, purpose to get out of bed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Makes me happy. I love seeing the people that are in here. It's like all the stuff that I didn't anticipate. And then, of course, as I got older and continued training people and working with people, I realized that they figured it out. And so these are the things that you focus on with fitness. And I'm going to tell you this right now. If you focus on those things, here's how I sell it to you. Because part of my job is to sell to you the right things. Because I know that the other guys sell the wrong things, and they sell it very effectively. It's real easy to sell the wrong things, by the way, I could sell the wrong things all day long. Super simple. Lose 30 pounds in 30 days, take this pill, and people will buy it. Or else, you know, show before and afters and do this thing, and it'll work or whatever. But here's how I sell it to you. If you focus on all those other things, the side effect that will occur, guaranteed is the physical visual changes. You will get leaner, you will build muscle, you will look more attractive, you'll get all those wonderful things as a side effect. But the main effect is I'm developing because a relationship is something you develop. Right. People have been married for 50 years. They didn't have that solid relationship in year one or even year five. Took time. You develop a relationship with fitness where you'll never stop and it changes based on your life. The rigidity around it isn't what you think it's like. Man, there was a period of time when I had kids and so I had to change my workout or my work was real busy or I got sick that one time had that thing that happened. So my workouts changed to make me feel, you know, better as a result. I remember the first time I experienced that I had a close family member who was battling cancer. This was a two year ordeal, very stressful, very difficult. And I remember finding myself working out just to alleviate stress. And it totally changed my workouts. I wasn't going in there like pushing the weights and whatever. And it was like so multiple.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, like you can, yeah, you can do just a therapeutic, a movement session. You can, you can have a high intensity session. You could have a long endurance session where it builds all this cognitive clarity. There's just so many different ways you can utilize fitness in your life and it enhances the earlier points, so many facets of your life.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't it interesting that there's. I feel like there's a lot of things in our life that the relationship. Right. If you don't figure that piece out, like listening to you, obviously I started it off by talking about the relationship with another person and how this is similar to with choosing to love. I also listening to you talk about it, think about your relationship with money. If you're always pursuing more money, more money and you don't realize or buying things. Yeah, exactly. If you don't realize, like one of the best parts of it is it's a tool to gain back time. It's a tool to give and help others. It's a tool to like create safety, protection, all the like. If you don't connect the dots to the benefits of more of it and then what to do with it, then you always end up just moving the goalpost and trying to fill this. Yeah. Never happy and just another zero gets out of the bank account. And it's just like and you, and you thought, but when you started on that, oh, if I was just this rich or I had just this much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Money, you know what's so crazy, what you're saying too. First of all, there's wonderful data to support what you're saying. So not to get off on a tangent, but when they look at how money affects happiness, buying things is the worst way to do it. Buying experience is a little bit better. Giving money to help people voluntarily produces the same amount of happiness every time you think about that thing you did for the rest of your life. Buying something will never do that. In fact, here's how you know, buy something and then go buy it again. See if you feel the same thing. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't, right? But you give money in a genuine way really helps somebody for the rest of your life. When you hear about it, when you talk about it, man, I remember that time. You'll feel the same. And the data, the data totally supports it.

[Adam Schafer]

And if you don't unlock that and figure that out along the way, then you end up having this really unhealthy relationship.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's how you know, okay, because here's what the data will show you, that being leaner, having more muscle means that you're happier, it means that you're healthier. But I could very easily find 10 people with a low body fat percentage with a lot of muscle, and I could show you that they're very unhealthy. I could show you their labs that they're very unhealthy. Okay? I could very easily pick those people. Most of them will probably be fitness influencers. So the reason why the data shows leaner muscle equates happiness is because of what I said earlier. It's not because of the way they look. There's a lot of people that look that way that are not healthy, both physiologically or mentally. But we've got it all twisted and mixed up. And if you don't, if you don't aim for what we're saying, you're destined for one of two things. Either one, you're gonna go on and off, on and off, on and off, eventually ending with off, because you'll get sick of that. Or two, and I don't know which one's worse, you'll become the body obsessed fitness fanatic who. They can't age, they just can't age. And they constantly throw things at themselves and find themselves getting more and more desperate as life goes on. And so, and we know people like that, so. Yeah, but that's it, that's it right there. And if you approach it the way we're saying the right methods and the right diet actually starts to follow as well. It's so long as the root of why you're doing it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. If you really struggle with this, I think it's, it's a valuable. This is why we always talk about the value of, of a good personal trainer.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, that's what they do.

[Adam Schafer]

A really good trainer and a coach. I think this is what's the most valuable part about them. You know, anybody who's had experience in this can, can put together macros and a decent workout program. But a really good coach can find kind of where somebody can take somebody who says I hate to work out, I'm not into it.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That's right, your buttons.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And figure out what, what that is, meet that person, where they're at and then really help that person connect to the things that they already know that they love in their life. Once you can do that, you unlock something that's really special that motivates you to. Because to your point, if you, if you reach a level of like peak physical looks and fitness, it's, it's cool when you get there, but it's short lived.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then if you haven't learned to connect the dots to all these other things, then it's really tough to stay panic motivated to keep doing this thing because you're already like, okay, well I did the thing and yeah, I was cool. I mean I was cool that day and it felt really cool. But then it's like, but okay, now I don't care anymore. And I know what it took to do that and that was such hard work and sacrifice. Like I just, I'll go back. But you have to really connect it to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh man.

[Adam Schafer]

I notice when I get my workouts in, I'm just, I'm a better husband. I'm a more active father. I, you know, I sleep better, I'm more productive. Yeah. More, I get more done at work like that I'm better to be around like better mood. Yeah. You just, you start to, to see.

[Sal DeStefano]

That you'll never want to stop.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then, and then the motivation changes to work out and then it's easier to.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you modify the workouts appropriately. Yeah. Because you don't over train, you don't under train because of how it affects everybody. Everything else.

[Adam Schafer]

This is what, this, what I mean, I know I share it all the time, so I apologize for the people probably tired of hearing this, but it was such an unlock for me because I was so guilty of the on and off the wagon all the time and the permission to go there and just do a couple things, you know, Or. Or like, I don't really feel like going, but you know, I need to go there and do this one thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right?

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. And just that permission to do that because I feel better when I do this thing. Yeah. I know I'm not gonna make huge gains doing one set of something or one exercise something, but that permission of doing that was such an unlock for me.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just wanna just commend you on your evolution. You walked in as we're talking about growth and relationship. You walked in today talking about one of the most crazy conspiracy theories I've ever heard.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I just remember. I remember compliments. Something related to. I remember. Where's he going with this? Listen, this is my favorite part of you. I remember when Justin and I would bring up things and you would make fun of us and you'd laugh at us. Oh, you guys are.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm on the team.

[Sal DeStefano]

Enough of the things we said.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm on the team now have come true.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm on the team where you came in. I want to hear about chi.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, you know what?

[Sal DeStefano]

That's crazy, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

You know about chi. Okay, I'll tell you. I was just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Blew my mind by the way you said it. Just to do. Of course. Right away.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Justice. Like, I know.

[Adam Schafer]

Actually, I didn't even finish saying. I said, bro, did you know about cheese? He's like, fizer.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm like. I'm like, you haven't brought this up.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm like, this is crazy.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

There's just so much like.

[Adam Schafer]

Pfizer owns 90% of all the cheese here. 90% of farm. I eat cheese every day. I know. And a drug company's making my cheese.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Ask me what brands I use. The non Fizer ones you specifically go by. Yeah. Like Till MC's one of them. And I. I live and die by Till mc.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, why does.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why does a pharma company own 90%?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Great question.

[Adam Schafer]

And so interesting that so many people have intolerances to this. This is so. And then oddly, when you go somewhere where. Europe, where they have strict regulations around that and no pharmaceutical comes in, totally fine. You can go that we've. Everybody has talked about this. We know many people that go, I can eat bread. They go, bread, pasta, cheese. When they. When they're in Europe, totally fine.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I hadn't even thought of that.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, yeah. But in America, it's a huge problem.

[Sal DeStefano]

That guy's. Is it Brett Weinstein? Is that his name? Brett? Is it Brett? You know that one scientist that. You know what I'm talking about. He went to Europe. He's got terrible gluten and. Terrible. Yeah. Where he gets like terrible react. Even cross contamination. Him and his wife went over there. He was doing this like, like, like, you know, videos on his Instagram or whatever. And he was like, I'm eating bread, I'm eating pasta. I've had no reaction. I'm going to keep like letting you guys know from.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

So many people have gone to Europe, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

The difference is what are they doing to our food?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

What are they doing to our. But why does Pfizer own cheese? That's weird.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's what I'm getting. I don't think they own cheese, but they created this product.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Gmo.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. It's a rennet. Is what you usually use to make cheese. And it's their version of it. And it's in 90% of the cheese.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, so. Which is just as insidious.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which is.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they don't own it because that would probably make everybody be huge. Huge.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like let's rent it. So it's not as Pfizer.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like an enzyme.

[Sal DeStefano]

But why does fight. So they've genetically.

[Justin Andrews]

So they have a lab made enzyme.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. That is a. They call it a genetically engineered version of which.

[Adam Schafer]

Which is not allowed in anywhere in Europe. Cheese.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's the difference? Look up Pfizer Rennet versus regular rennet. Why would you go with the Pfizer one?

[Adam Schafer]

Here's what I've decided, by the way, to your point, why he's looking that up about me and the conspiracy. I think now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, are you gonna go further than we are?

[Adam Schafer]

I am.

[Sal DeStefano]

I am.

[Adam Schafer]

I think to. To not believe in these things makes you a conspiracy theorist.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That's how far I am forever. I'm just like.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I'm like, yeah. You choose not to look at these things. I mean, I look at you now. How do you. How naive are you?

[Justin Andrews]

So here's the reason it's cheaper.

[Adam Schafer]

Here's the reason they give it to you.

[Justin Andrews]

Vegetarian and consistent alternative to traditional calf rennet.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Vegetarian.

[Justin Andrews]

So they say it's molecularly identical to calf rennet, but it's not calf.

[Sal DeStefano]

Molecularly identical.

[Adam Schafer]

Molecular my ass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, here's. I. I don't know how. I mean, I definitely have razzed you guys for a long time. Now but I don't know how you go the last four years in someone's shoes like my shoes and not get converted.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

There's just the.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I mean it's hit a full on tipping point.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I mean at that point I would have this to be in full on denial to stay on that side.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, I just have to be like.

[Adam Schafer]

People are still like tomorrow.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is how crazy it's gone if tomorrow a politician pulls his face off and is a lizard.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I would not be surprised. Not that I'd be like did you.

[Adam Schafer]

Guys do see this is also another way crazy that I'm like how is not everybody talking about this? Because I know, I know 3 million documents were released for the Epstein.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

There is but this is all like sub media. So this is all like the independent circles and like podcasts and YouTube and.

[Sal DeStefano]

But.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

But mainstream media. Of course we're not going to cover it.

[Adam Schafer]

So. So what there is a. What do you call that? Not a dossier or where you're. Where the subpoena. Not a subpoena. Where the. The Senates are basically having a. There. It's not a hearing but it's like kind of interrogation either the lack of word here. Yeah. Like an inquiry that for a lack of a better word we'll use that. But one of the senators is getting ready to like drill like one of the. One of the people and Epstein is like texting her.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh. Oh yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

What to what to ask? Like they have the time stamps of their phones. You see her look down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally influencing her. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Influencing her on what? This like what? Yeah, like and like nobody like we're like that is happening in our government.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like you.

[Sal DeStefano]

You.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

You know documents.

[Adam Schafer]

There's nobody right on. On any side of the aisle that doesn't think Epstein is this evil bad person. And like the craziest thing we'll see. Right. Everyone agrees on that. Like even the. The non conspiracy people at least believe that. Right? No, there's nobody that's bought in that he was a good guy or anything. Right.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Dude, that's three and a half million documents just from the FBI. And we're not even talking about the CIA has documents that we're not even going to have access to. And not to mention. You think Epstein was the only Epstein?

[Adam Schafer]

No, of course not. There's multiple Epstein's out there and there's so much so. But that just fascinates me that we have this, you know with. Within our government. You've got these senators that are having this conversation this important Inquiry for Doug's lack of better word. I'm just slipping me what. What. What it is. And a person like that even is allowed to be communicating literally. And is. Is so powerful that a senator is listening, is listening. And with blindly asking the question, not. Not even knowing what.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're just puppets.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

So crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, just a puppet. Yes, a. What's your favorite? Do you guys have a favorite? Because some of the stuff's so dark. I don't want to talk about it. But I do have some favorites of the emails that are released. You guys want my favorite one?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Well, I like the Bill Gates one.

[Sal DeStefano]

But yeah, this one's my. This was Hillary Clinton emailing. This is amazing. Requesting documents pertaining to the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh, the location of his body, and the location of the buried Nephilim. What? Yeah, what?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I'm so glad you brought this up.

[Sal DeStefano]

What does anybody. Okay, do you guys know what?

[Adam Schafer]

No, break that all down, please.

[Sal DeStefano]

The Nephilim in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, when Satan, he convinces a third of the angels to revolt. This is the Bible. This is why it's so crazy.

[Nicole (Caller)]

He.

[Sal DeStefano]

He convinces a third of the angels to rebel and there's a war that happens and God and his angels kick him out, throw them down to earth. Well, a lot of these angels, right, fallen angels or demons, that's what it says in the Bible. They find women, human women, attractive, and they sleep with them because they can make themselves look like humans and they produce offspring that are called the Nephilim. These are giants.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Giants.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're literal giants who are killers who eat people, like terrible. And they ruled the world. At that time. Part of the reason why there was a flood was because of these Nephilim. And she said, I'd like to find the burial sites of the Nephilim. Hillary Clinton.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, what? Okay, Doug, please look up Lovelock Cave.

[Sal DeStefano]

What?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

So they found remains in Nevada, Lovelock Cave, of these like over 10 foot skeletons with red hair. And there's a tribes there that have confirmed this and have like literature and everything. Apparently they actually like cornered them into this cave and like set on fire. And there's like remnants of the soot and everything from the fire. But yeah, I don't know what happened to these skeletons. I think the Smithsonian had taken it and then quickly wasn't there, like removed it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like military reports. I think they were like a special military team. And it might have been in the Middle east where they. There was. They. They saw like a giant and they were firing at it. And then they killed it. But some of them got.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Oh, I did hear about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. There's like some stuff and then.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, that was, this is all part of like the Foya stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

So the Freeman and then Gilgamesh was this giant that was. And the resurrection too.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

What? Because I, I, I was always like, yeah, the giants was like a cool, like, legend kind of lore. I'm like, oh. But I'm starting to see now people are actually have like evidence like that they found like skeletons.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look at Adam. He's so, so deep right now.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not even. I'm not even trying to go deep, bro. I tried to stay on the other, other team for a long time. It's just like at one. That's why I'm like, there's no turning back.

[Caller Nicole]

How.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, how do you, how do you not, how do you not question so many things now? This stuff with Epstein now and the, the ties that. And these emails that they're so damning.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not even like, do you see Bill.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you see Bill Gates, his wife?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, I saw it.

[Sal DeStefano]

One of the emails says that Bill Gates got an std.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he was emailing Epstein, you know, to get him antibiotics. And then. How can I get, how can I sneak these into my, to my wife? So she, because he obviously went home and slept his wife, she and everybody. And then he's like, it's not a real email. He was emailing himself and he got, Remember, he got divorced. His wife divorced him.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Somebody interviewed him. You could watch the interview.

[Adam Schafer]

She stepped away from the foundation.

[Sal DeStefano]

She. And she's basically like, yeah, that's, Yeah. I mean, she didn't say. Yeah, she said.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

It's really not in so many words, but she acknowledged.

[Sal DeStefano]

Go watch it.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That's a contributing factor.

[Adam Schafer]

I know it's unbelievably damning, this stuff. The Peter Atia. I mean, thousand emails.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what's crazy, though? Not that I'm defending the guy because he didn't say anything that was like, really crazy, but he's getting destroyed. Oh, yeah, we have politicians and stuff on there. But some of the emails are so dark. I Please don't go look.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

And nothing's happening.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's the part that. Okay, so they haven't released a lot.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Of politicians names yet. That's still coming.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, some of them, like George Bush Senior. Some of that stuff's out there. So. But he died.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

And I heard too, like, you know, there's there's some stuff where disinformation, like. So there's some stuff in there that are, like, you know, Epstein could just be, like, talking and, like, he's writing it in there. Like, it's not verified, but, you know, there's. There's also a lot of factual information in there that they actually went through.

[Sal DeStefano]

And found the evidence, like what Adam said. They were showing the text and it was timestamped, and you can link it up directly to.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you can watch the video while the factual stuff.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That's why it's like. It's like a whole huge thing you got to kind of filter through. So I'm like, you know, some of it might be, like, not true, but. Oh, yeah, a lot of it, you know, is really bad.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a.

[Adam Schafer]

That's support. I agree. I think that there's. Of course they're gonna also. To have that much stuff out, it's going to be very easy to slide in a few intentional misinformation. So then people discredits it. So, yeah, people go, oh, this. That was made up and that was fake. Throw that out. There'll definitely be some fall. People like Peter Tia will be like, oh, we could sacrifice him. Yeah, he's some medical influencer.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That's how I feel about that. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I'm saying? But there's like. So what'll be interesting, though, is people like him that it ruins their life if they come forward and sell out more people. Because eventually I would think that would start to happen. Right. A couple of people that are like, you. You came after Jesse Nicki Minaj. Well, yeah, people.

[Sal DeStefano]

She's going scorched earth, dude. Who just saw that she was gangster. You know what I mean? Some people don't care.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which I appreciate.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Well, I wonder if that's what they're. I was. I was watching.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Aren't they coming after our. Our guy who was in force, Gump. What's his name again?

[Justin Andrews]

Tom Hanks.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

They're, like, going after him.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was.

[Adam Schafer]

I was watching a recent interview of. Of Andrew Tate, and I thought it was really interesting, something that he was talking about and what he said. Because a lot of people are, like, calling him this sellout, and he's talking about. He's obviously defending himself. Just like, I'm not a seller, but these people. He's like, these Internet people, he goes, I. They've already checked the boxes with me. He goes, the first thing that they do with somebody with my. As much power and influence as I Have speaking as him is they, they will jail me for that I didn't do right. And they can build all that. And they've done that. And I've still beat that. Came out the next step.

[Sal DeStefano]

Kill.

[Adam Schafer]

Kill.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

He goes. And so I, I, I've already pointed you all in the direction I 100 have said. Like. He's like. But I also know that I'm at a place now where they've already tried the first step, which they don't want, obviously. They don't want to have to go murder me because that draws way more, Makes me a martyr, way more attention.

[Sal DeStefano]

He goes, you can only do that so many times.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. And so he's like. So they try to ruin my life like this. He goes. And they still lost. And he goes, if I keep pushing it. I, I've already told you. I've already told everybody everything. And like, and so he's like. You could tell he's deathly afraid.

[Sal DeStefano]

Can I tell you, not that I would ever be a target, but can I tell you one of the number one reasons why I wouldn't buy a fully electric car is that they could shut it off. There's been, They've come out. Yeah. CIA people have come out and said, oh, we could.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

They backdoored, you know, so they could have access.

[Sal DeStefano]

We could fully take control of your car and make it crash fully. So what an easy way to take someone out. Oh, yeah. You hear what happened?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Now go, Andrew.

[Sal DeStefano]

Take on a car accident, dude.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Now go through and go. So there's this other crazy thing, and I brought this up a while ago about, like, patents and all that, right? And so if you go through, if a machine is over 40% efficient, then it has to be given to the state.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I don't know.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

It's classified.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, wow.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

What?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, explain that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because. Because it's too efficient.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Too efficient.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

And so then they take that on as, like, classified, you know, projects that then they end up working on and, and developing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow. What?

[Adam Schafer]

That's so crazy. That was an act.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Like, I forget what the act was, but they, they put that into Congress.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, here's what you got to do, because we just scared the crap out of everybody. Just pray. Just.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

We're dealing with shitty stuff, you guys. Like, we could be having such.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got to focus on your family, okay? Pray, exercise.

[Adam Schafer]

Somebody, Somebody said.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, we did, bro.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I'm just, like, letting it out.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, but you nailed it. It was so funny you went that way because I, I actually heard a really good. I wish I remember who it was. It was a great conversation around this. Just how awful, how evil, how dark, all this stuff. It's like you control what you. You clean your own room, like at this. With this place, like, getting caught up. It's always been true to get caught up in everything and let it ruin your day and try and make this like, like build, Build yourself, build your relationship with your. Your family, your neighbor, squash your light. Like, and. And that has so much power in itself because if everybody just did that, that would be one of the most influential and powerful that would change the world. Exactly. And so that is.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're not. You're hard to manipulate. Because here's the game. The game is to manipulate the masses. This is what it shows. This is. This is why they have so many powerful people in these emails, is because these people have influence. And you'll see some of these emails where they talk about how you can manipulate the public. But if you're focused on your faith, your family, your health, what is true and what is right, you're hard to manipulate. You're much harder to manipulate. But if you're floating around and your faith is based off of media and the world and what the world offers you, and you don't have kids to take care of, who take you out of being selfish, because that's what kids are very good at doing, and you're not focused on loving other people. Boy, you're like a puppet man. I could pull you in any direction I want. I can scare you. I can make you want this. I can make you more.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you think more or less people right now are. I mean, this is my personal journey on. It is like I'm so. I'm not on a side. Like, I feel like there's so many people.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm on a side, but it ain't.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, political office. That's what I mean. That's like, I feel like more and more people. I mean, I have a thread with my. A couple of my buddies and this. I have multiple threads. I have like my conservative thread and my liberal thread.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Totally different groups.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And. And even my buddies that are conservative, which I tend to have more conservative values, is what I would tell somebody. I would not say I'm conservative at all. I say I have conservative values. I'm like, bro, you guys need to get off the team. Whatever.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like, yeah. Because that becomes their.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, oh, I'm so.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I'm like, bro, don't defend any of these.

[Adam Schafer]

Do not defend any of these politicians right now. I mean, they're like, and there's no way you're in that club, in my opinion, on either side of the aisle and didn't know about all this.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, and here's the thing too. This is just human behavior. Power is very alluring. It's very seductive. Power gets you a lot of the things in the world. So if you like money, power will get you money. If you like pleasure, power gets you pleasure, power get your food, power gets you things, power gets you whatever attention. So it's very alluring. So it's like, well, who do we trust that's in power? The person who doesn't seek it. The very people who fight and make a career out of trying to gain power. Those are the people you don't have. You're the wrong person. The person who's not looking for it, who kind of gets put in that position like we need you, which they don't exist.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, that's why back to the work.

[Sal DeStefano]

We don't have any working.

[Adam Schafer]

You should work instead of looking out towards these people that are put on pedestals, that are the famous online, that are politicians. It's like you should work from the inside out. Totally from your, from your circle, from you, your. The neighbor that you have a lot of respect with, that you have conversations with, that you see day in and day out with his family. And like you go outward. Not you don't like reach you from inside out versus this person's so famous or this person's the president or this person. It's like, dude, I don't trust, I don't trust no one like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

Especially with all this stuff coming out.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, I'm change directions because I had a wonderful moment last night with my 16 year old daughter. So it's, you know, when you have teenage kids, I don't care how cool you think you are or what you do, you're just not cool no matter what. Right? You just aren't. You're always dad, you're always mom, whatever. But last night I had a I'm cool moment. So I come home and we had interviewed Nick Hexum, the lead singer from 3:11.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And my daughter loves, she loves music from the 90s. She loves like all kinds of different. She's like really into music. So I come home and I already knew and I said, hey, do you like, do you like 3:11? She's like, oh yeah, I love them. So we're like playing songs like, oh, that's my favorite song. Oh, my God, that one's so. I never heard that one. I'm like, hey, look who I interviewed today. What? You know him? What did he say?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Street cred.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So right away I was like, for a second, you know, But I'm so cool.

[Adam Schafer]

I had, I had.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That's great.

[Adam Schafer]

I had an opposite dad. Like, that was like a happy dad. I had like a. I had one of my first, like, really angry, I guess it was angry, sad, hurt. I felt all at the same time. I found out from Katrina, because he didn't even say anything to me. She came over and told me that some kid like, kind of bullied Max yesterday at school.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Called him a loser and. Yeah, I know. Said he called him a loser. And his. He had a stinky shirt. Right? And so he tells, he tells Katrina this. Now I know who the kid is, and I know that this happens to be like the troubled kid at school. Always getting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Always.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. And he told Katrina. He goes, Katrina goes, well, how did you feel? She goes, he goes, I really. It made me very sad and I wanted to cry, but I fought back from crying. So I didn't cry, but I felt like I wanted to cry because he made me sad. And hearing her tell me that, the story of that, like, you know, the, the dad and you get enraged. I mean, this is like a little.

[Sal DeStefano]

Six year old kid.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Put you in.

[Adam Schafer]

A garbage can, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Absolutely. Beat up his dad.

[Adam Schafer]

I pulled him in and reminded him. I said, I reminded him what I tell him. You remember what daddy tells you about those kids, right? And he goes, yeah, but dad, are you sure? And I. Are you sure his parents don't love him? I said, that's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, no.

[Adam Schafer]

I said, son, when, when kids, when kids are like, he's gonna tell him. I. I want him to. And then, and then I want the teacher.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your mom and dad don't love you.

[Adam Schafer]

I said, listen, maybe you should love your son more. And so he's not like that. I said, so bring it on. I hope that he says that I'm giving terrible advice.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Throttled.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is he a little overweight? Yeah, he's kind of. Okay, make sure you tell him he's fat. Yeah, okay. Make sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, No, I want, I want and I want. But I also want him to have compassion about. I said, listen, don't, don't, don't let it hurt your feelings. I said, because you know what? At home, he's probably really sad. He doesn't have as good of a mommy and daddy as you do, there's not a love and there's not a lot of. There's not a lot of love. And he's like, are you sure? I see his mom.

[Sal DeStefano]

I said, but I said, well, you.

[Adam Schafer]

Know, she might be all right, but trust me, if he's like that, he's hurting some. And so I let him.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So I'm waiting for the time that he's. I said, you just. So this time I like drilled at home, like it's hard, it's hard when.

[Sal DeStefano]

Somebody hurts your kids because you know what it feels like as a kid. Yeah, yeah. That sucks. I think all of us went through that at one, every kid does.

[Adam Schafer]

But I really want him to make that connection because I think if he understands that these bullies and these kids that are like that are hurting inside and that's what caught they want. They're, they're hurting, they have pain inside. So I told them they have pain inside because something. Maybe their mommy and daddy fight a lot. Maybe they don't give them a lot of attention. Maybe they don't have a lot of nice things like you do. You get to do a lot of cool things. You have lots. Your mom and daddy have a lot of love. And when a kid doesn't get that, they tend to act out and they be, they're mean to other kids. And so when a. You hear a kid say something like that, that you know it's not true and he says that to you. I said, you know, don't, don't be sad. In fact, you should feel sorry for.

[Sal DeStefano]

Him and you let him know.

[Adam Schafer]

You just say, man, I'm so sorry. My dad told me that kids that are mean, like you probably aren't loved. So tell, you tell that. You tell that six year old.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's horrible.

[Adam Schafer]

That's horrible.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know that's right. Psychological levels.

[Adam Schafer]

And then let your mom and dad come talk to me and then we'll have a talk. And so, or the teacher for that matter, if she thinks that's inappropriate. I'll, I'll definitely defend that because you know damn well it's what it is. You know, that kid is like fighting for attention because whatever, whatever reason I don't know the mom and dad well.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, I mean that whole thing, it's so tough because like too like if your kid's defending himself as well and I got in that predicament, you know, and I had to like face the principal and like potential te like the other parents and whatnot. But like, like Especially when it's justified. It's like, your kid decided to try and strangle my kid with the. The rope from the tetherball. And he socked him in the stomach and made him cry out, you know, the rest of the day, sorry, you know, like consequences. But it. Again, you don't want to, like, resort to violence. And you're like, yeah, I get all this stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I told you guys about that one time I had a client, this kid that I trained. He was young. It was. I think it was like 4, 14, 13. And his mom told me, oh, he gets bullied sometimes, but whatever. Anyway, I build this relationship with this kid, and he tells me, this kid follows him home from school and taunts him the whole time and says terrible things to him the whole time. And I'm like. And I'm, you know, I'm, you know, I like this kid. He's my client, you know, so inside, I'm like, boiling, you know, And I'm like, well, what does your mom tell you to do? Because I don't want to say anything opposite. My mom says, ignore him. You know, My mom says just to just, you know, he's probably, you know, you know, hurt, and just ignore him. And I'm like, And he's still doing it. He's like, yeah, he's following me. So anyway, I got fed up. I kept hearing this, and I was like, oh. So I told him one day, it's terrible advice. So next time he follows you, he said, do you want him stop? He's like, yeah. I said, turn around. And I told him exactly what to do. I said, punch him straight in the nose. I said, aim for his nose, because then he can't see. He's going to blur it. And I said, and then keep hitting him until someone pulls you off. I was so mad because, listen, I'm not even going to say what this kid was saying to him.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

This kid was saying terrible. And pulling on his backpack, and he's like. And I've seen this before. Yeah, yeah, he did it, dude. He hit the kid and he beat him up. And they never messed with him? No, he never messed with him again. And he said, you know, I'm like, yeah. When he came and told me, I'm like, did you get in trouble? He's like, yeah, I got suspended in my head.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I'm like, definitely. When they know you have claws, I'm.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, did you tell your mom that I told you?

[Adam Schafer]

I. I definitely want him to connect the dots. Those kids are hurting Inside. And that's the reason why they do it. And I think if I can build his confidence around that. It's not about him that they're saying these things, it's them. I hope that that will be able to squash it. Now there's. Once it gets physical, it's a. That's different coaching to like, you, You. You put your hands on my son.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, you gotta defend yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. Yeah. You put your. You put hand. Like my son will be taught you don't do that. You don't do that. And like. But if he's got. He's put it. If someone puts a rope around my kid's. So you absolutely justified.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I'm like, hey, you know he did that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. But I, I think if he can handle. If he can control his emotions and when a kid is being mean, like, especially during these, these grade levels, when these kids aren't really. These kids are just mean. They're just mean little kids and they say mean things. I don't know if he lets them know that it's because his parents don't love him. I'm pretty sure that'll handle it. That should handle it. Probably up to about 6th grade or so, 6th grade, 6th grade kids start to get a little more physical and stuff like that.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Then we got.

[Adam Schafer]

You could talk. But for right now, he just remind him that his parents don't love him and that's why he's like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I gotta ask you, just change. Change the topic. You've been really. I know you're. You're back to working out. You're being consistent. Yeah. Obviously putting on muscle. How, How You've been consistently taking lots of supple supplements, but the one I see you routinely taking throughout the day are the essential amino acids. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you see I did a post?

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. I did a post the other day about. I mean, you know how I am. Right. Like, I tease you a lot because you're like, you feel it right away. And I'm always like, yeah, but you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Don'T take something consistently unless you notice.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And I also, I also, I also like to. To tease out things and I like to see it. So I've now, this is four times now where I've built cut. Built cut. And. And I. And I've consistently used those. And so obviously I, I hang on to muscle. Way better. Yeah. Way better. Yeah. It's like. And that. And that's a. And so maybe you're somebody who does. That's not a big Deal to you. Like, for me, I've shared before. We were just talking to somebody recently, I think on. On a call, live call or something that I'm the type of person that as soon as I reduce calories, man, if I, If. If my protein intake isn't super optimal or high, I like my body. And I have the tracking of this too. This is not me just like, oh, I think I lost muscle. This is me on a DEXA scan. I. I lose muscle pretty quick if not being fed. I noticed that it. I definitely hold on to more of it by taking that. It helps tremendously.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're doing. I see you take what, five capsules?

[Adam Schafer]

No, it's. It's six. It's six to seven three times a day. Yeah, yeah. And what I.

[Sal DeStefano]

What I'll do such a simple inexpensive supplement that I over that I totally underestimated until we had them on the show and then I've used them. I know you've used them.

[Adam Schafer]

I wonder too because you're. You have more of a body type like me. I. I wonder if like certain people would. Will. Will notice a big difference versus other people. Like, I know the studies were. I know he blew all our minds like that, but I wonder because there has to be this like individual variance of why.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think so. But I mean losing muscle in a calorie deficit is the norm. It's just hard.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just. It's just the difference is honestly like this guys, like either you lose a lot of muscle or you use a. Lose a little bit of muscle. It's typically what it looks like. Yeah. Not losing any muscle in a deficit is like, wow. And this and. And the essential amino acids make that difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, that my last. So I can't. I DEXA scan again this coming up. Coming up Monday, which I think this is about when this podcast. So I'll be. Have have been getting it done. The last one that I did was I did a bunch two years ago when I was doing that transformation thing. And it would. That was the first time it kind of blew my mind because again, I've been in cuts. I've done all this stuff so many times. I've tracked with all the data and everything like that. And it's pretty normal.

[Sal DeStefano]

You.

[Adam Schafer]

I go in a cut and I'm gonna. I'm gonna lose some lean body mass. But I actually I. I gained. Like I held on and gained.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

And yeah. So I literally went down. I think I'll look back at the exact numbers I was looking back on them Just the other day, just to kind of check to see what it was. But I want to say I went down like 3 or 4% body fat and actually gained lean body mass. And I was like, in a calorie deficit. So to be in a calorie deficit most of the time and to see that was like, whoa. Like, so I'm.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm totally sold on it. I can again, I've been doing this for long enough to. To feel and see a difference in my body. And yeah, ever since, you know, Angelo came on and kind of dispelled a lot of things that I thought to be true around EAAs. And so since you brought them up, though, I do want to ask you because I can't remember. I don't remember recall in a calorie. So put me in a calorie surplus. Put me in calorie deficit. Is it more beneficial for me to go in between meals or to protein spike a meal already?

[Sal DeStefano]

Probably in between.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Probably in between.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, is that different based off the cut and the.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. On the bowl? So no matter what, it's probably better to be in between.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

But the data will show it probably doesn't make a difference. Okay. So if I had to pick one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So what I've done is I've done in between. Unless it's like a low. A low protein and you throw out the meal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's kind of.

[Sal DeStefano]

So the way I used to use essential amino acids back in the day was I would give to my vegan clients. That had a huge impact.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Huge.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I would have them take five capsules. And back then, we didn't work with Kion, so it'd be whatever. Now we have a good brand. But back then, I would take five capsules with your meal because vegan sources of protein, especially whole food, aren't that great.

[Adam Schafer]

And I wonder if that's part of why I see such huge benefits from it is because I. Anyone who's been listening for long enough, I've always talked about how hard it is for me to hit 220 grams of protein all the time. It's hard to do that. It's hard for me to consistently always do that. Even when I'm prepping like I am right now. When I go back, I check like, damn. Still I'm only. I'm only at 180. And so it's like, I think that fills those gaps. And so I think that's what I'm noticing more than Anything else is just.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the majority of people.

[Adam Schafer]

I think so too. Yeah. That's why, I think, that's why I'm so sold on it. And I think it's so valuable is because I think a lot of people underestimate how, how, how inconsistent they are with hitting optimal protein numbers. And so supplementing with something like that while doing that super beneficial or.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got an uplifting crazy story for you guys. Did you guys hear about the, the 13 year old boy that saved his family from drowning?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Crazy story. So there the family was out kayaking and paddle boarding and they got swept out almost three miles out to sea. So it's a mom and I think it's her. Let me see. Let's see. It's a mom and her 8 year old and a 12 year old boy. The 13 year old boy and an 18 and an 8 year old sister. So she got three kids out there with. They get swept out. So it must have been a current or something. And they're like screwed. The mom makes the decision because she's like, I don't know what to do here. So she tells her oldest kid, the 13 year old, and she goes, you got to try swimming out to shore and see if you can get us help. Now I can't even imagine doing that as a parent. You got to stand on your kids and she can't leave the little ones. Yeah. So she sends this 13 year old boy out there, so he decides he's going to do it. And so this is what he said. He had to swim for four hours in the ocean. Okay. The whole time he's praying and he said, God, if you help me, I will get baptized. And he's talking to God and this is what he says. He goes, I don't think this is the boy. There's an interview, you can watch the interview. He said, I don't think it was me swimming. It was God. The whole time I kept on praying, kept on praying. I said to God, I'll get baptized. The waves were massive. I had no life jacket on. I just kept thinking, keep swimming, keep swimming. And he kept praying. He made it to the beach, got to the shore, ran a mile to find help and ended up getting help. The family, by the time that they got in the helicopter to find the family, they were nine miles out to ocean and they saved the whole family. Wow.

[Caller Nicole]

Whoa.

[Adam Schafer]

Our coaster.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is Australia.

[Adam Schafer]

Australia. Australia.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the mom, she said one of the hardest decisions ever had to make was to say to Austin, that's the Boy, try to get to shore and get some help. How crazy is that?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Imagine hours in the ocean.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, imagine her, too. After you send your kid, you're like. It's like three hours have gone by, and you're four hours. Yeah. Floating out there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, but the interview. The interview was crazy. You hear this kid? He's like. I was praying. And God, he's like, it wasn't me swimming. It's like, what a. What a wonderful, miraculous.

[Adam Schafer]

Is this recent or is this one of those times?

[Sal DeStefano]

Just happened.

[Adam Schafer]

It just happened.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. It's not like one year ago. What is this, 97 you just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Still a cool story.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That's great to bring.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's even more cool. Hey, speaking of kids, I'll talk about my daughter again yesterday. This. This happens often, right? So I got my niece living with us. So I got two teenage girls. Girls. And they love to tease me. And I love it because it's just endearing. I know that they. That's how they show their love. And so they'll tease me and joke with me. And of course, you know, my birthday is today. And so they're calling me Boomer and Unk and names you call them old guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And then they're both like. They're both trying to mess with me, right? So, like, throwing punches or they're trying to wrestle with me.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're old and this and that. And so I'm like, tell them, like, listen. And so I had to pause for a sec because we're laughing. I said, listen. I said, I get the feeling that you both think that you could take a guy out. They're like, of course we could. Both of us together. I said, you can't. I said, listen to me right now. No, you can't.

[Adam Schafer]

In fact, go get your mother, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

I said, listen. I said, you get all three of you. I said, I'll. If I grab you with one hand, I could. You'll be on the floor. No, you can't. So they both start squaring up, and they're trying to get with me or whatever. So I just grabbed my daughter, put her on the floor on one hand, and she's screaming, ah. Ah. Help. How dare you to take me. Here's a little life lesson. Please let go. Then I let go. That they get up and come after me again. It was the funniest, dude. It was so funny. And I'll tease him about it like, you'll never be. You'll never beat me, you know? Oh, I love it such a good time last night at my house. Just cracking up.

[Adam Schafer]

So good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, hey, I was gonna ask you, Adam again. I want to go back to you. You had you last one of our last episodes. You were talking about how you. You were holding water because you ate.

[Adam Schafer]

All this food from my ice cream.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, we were talking about like the pump and all that stuff and then my burritos. Yeah, you had. I have not tried the butcher box chorizo that you're talking about so far. So is it.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

No, they had that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have to cook it. Is it pre made?

[Adam Schafer]

It comes in just like. Like a hamburger. You know, the way hamburger. Their hamburger comes. It's. But it's chorizo and it is good. It's so good. And it's okay. So traditional. Will sometimes upset my stomach. It's like greasy. It is not greasy.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's got to be made. They still picking the heritage fork?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. You guys. That's why you guys have to try it. It's not like. It is not.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I wonder if it's different. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

100. It's the heritage pork.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's derived from that. All their pork tastes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. And that's what made me do it because I'm like, you know what?

[Sal DeStefano]

I.

[Adam Schafer]

We rave all the time about their. Their heritage pork and their baby back ribs. Like Katrina's like, I'm gonna try their chorizo. Made that with some egg and a little bit of potato and a burrito in burritos. That's been my breakfast. I had it again today. I've had it every day. Had it every day this week.

[Sal DeStefano]

I haven't seen it on their site.

[Adam Schafer]

So good.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is in an add on. It's got to be an add on. So you just do an add on to your box.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a. That's a wife question.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you find it, Doug?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm looking for it right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Find it. I want to see how much what it is and if it's an ad.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Because they have curious because. Yeah. Every time I eat trees and I love the taste. You have to get like immediate, like fire.

[Adam Schafer]

It tastes so different. It doesn't taste like that. It's like it's. I mean, you could tell it's like not greasy at all. We even took it. We took it. Even a little bit of greasy. She. She poured it out then.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you do that anyway.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. And then we. And then we made the burritos out of it and it's like. Yeah, not greasy.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I know. I heard this new term. And Courtney was. I don't know, she's, like, obsessed about, like, growing her own food and, like, stuff for, like, spices and, like, having all this stuff in the house. She. You guys have had her, like, sourdough bread. It's like, she's. She's really into just, like, making everything from scratch. And so apparently, there's this term. It's called, like, the ingredient household. And so the. The philosophy is really, like, you have. The whole house is, like, stock with all these ingredients and everything to make, like. Even the kids will go, like. And they do this a lot. They'll go, you know, make their own cookies or they'll make their own brownies.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have all the basic ingredients.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

All the basic ingredients to do everything. We don't have anything prepackaged or anything, like, ready, like, accessible. They have to go in. And we've been, you know, experimenting with the boys with this for, like, the last couple years.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, what a great point, Justin. We have lost the art of cooking together because everything's so convenient. And I get it. It takes time. One of the best ways to bond with your spouse or your kids is to, like, make things.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It gives you automatic time. Sometimes you think. You say, what do I do with my kids? I gotta think. Cook something together. Yeah. You know, it's a lot of fun. What is that? Doug's. That showing?

[Justin Andrews]

Is this the one, Adam?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Chorizo ground pork sausage. Right there, right?

[Nicole (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's it called? Is an add on. How much is it?

[Justin Andrews]

It is an add on. It's ten bucks. $10.20.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that's nothing.

[Justin Andrews]

Two pounds.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that's right. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You guys have to. I'm.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

It's on.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, I definitely want to try. I gotta tell you guys, by the way, because, you know, I just turned. I'm on the. The wrong side of 40 now, so I'm getting closer to that other. That other ticket.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, you say now. We say you're almost 50.

[Sal DeStefano]

At least a few years, but still. But anyways, my friends were like, hey, what kind of gifts can we get you, you know, for your birthday? Which I want gifts. So I gave him a bunch of. You know. So here's the list of things that I. I told them. So you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Rolex watch.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you're an old guy. If you're an old guy. You understand? Okay, so number one, I said balance shoes. I said new Balance shoes. But Velcro, of course. You gotta have Velcro shoes. By the way, my dad he always buys shoes without laces, and I used to make fun of them. I get it now.

[Adam Schafer]

Barbecue spatula.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I said. I said. I said ibuprofen. Because sometimes I sleep wrong. Get injured for some reason. Hair clippers for my ears. That's a new one. A sign that says get off my lawn. That's the other one. Slow down. Cassette, mixtape, and a pencil. If you're from our generation, you understand the association. You know why? There's a pencil with a cassette. Cassette tape. I said a Blockbuster T shirt.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Kind rewind another one.

[Sal DeStefano]

I said a cereal box with Bruce Jenner on the COVID You guys remember that guy?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

The original?

[Sal DeStefano]

The other one was Tiger bomb. Mentholated cream for my joints. And then finally I said a jug of water from the garden hose, because that's the best water. That was the best water that we drank.

[Adam Schafer]

That actually would be like, a really cool, like, birthday to actually, like, a box to get all that. To get all that stuff.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I bet you forgot Tums. And in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

I bet you. Right there, Doug, look up on ebay. A Wheaties box with Bruce Jenner. I bet you it's worth a ton of money.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you think so?

[Sal DeStefano]

I bet you it's worth a ton.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you see my post I did about Doug?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh.

[Adam Schafer]

So I. You know, Doug Sil. Doug's big silver guy, right? So did you see what I did? So I. So, so behind me, right? Wimy last year, right, when Doug's talking about buying silver, I bought the Wimy silver panini, okay. Which is a rookie card of his, and I got it at 700 bucks. It's selling right now for $1500.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow. Yeah. Doubled your money.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller Nicole]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Had you back actually bought real silver, it might have been even up more.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I did the math, actually. That's why I did it first. It was 51 with silver. I was up about 57.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that was the point, was I.

[Adam Schafer]

Was looking up silver and how much silver had gone up in the last year, and I was like, oh, wow. It looks like my silver panini went up a little bit more than silver.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you find the Wheaties box? I did.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a bunch of them on sale.

[Sal DeStefano]

How much?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, they vary. One is $94. There's one that's been dropped to $345.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some of them.

[Adam Schafer]

Are they not open too?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Some of them are not even opened.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

So, wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a famous box. You guys know the picture, right? Of course. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, that. Dude, you know what's weird.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, that's so. That's so cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you guys ever noticed this? I'm sure you have. You notice all the men when they date a Kardashian. Like, at least I'll turn out kind of. Something happens to all of them, bro.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

They get mkultra.

[Sal DeStefano]

Something happens to almost every single guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, God.

[Sal DeStefano]

That ends up marrying one of those chicks.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I do like that you brought this up, though. And I don't know. What I'm talking about is, like, the collectibles are, like, interesting to watch right now with our dollar being destroyed. Like, a lot of collectible stuff is, like, way, way, way up. It's. I mean, it got me back.

[Sal DeStefano]

You start buying things with baseball cards.

[Adam Schafer]

I did stamps. You should see. I have.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I have a bunch of our new currency.

[Adam Schafer]

My buddies. My buddies that I told you. I tease. That are like, that actually watch other grown men open cards. I will never.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's.

[Adam Schafer]

I will never reach.

[Sal DeStefano]

That gets them. No sex.

[Adam Schafer]

But what I will. What I will tell you is that the. The excitement of. Of opening cards, because it's like gambling, because there's collectible cards in there that are worth the kind of money that I just shared with you. That's. A card from just last year is already valued that high. That part I get into. So we were all supposed to get together this weekend, and. And so I have, like, all these boxes of cards that I'm like, I bought last, like, in the Christmas time that I'm waiting to, like, open up and stuff. And I haven't done that since I was, like, a kid, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's. I'm all excited right open in front of them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, of course I'm gonna open.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're gonna do.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll. They'll get to open it up together. There's a way to do it and everything. Like, there we're. We were last. The last time we were all together. And this is me hanging out. These are, like, my childhood friends.

[Sal DeStefano]

Their wives must think this is the worst thing ever.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. Yeah. No, they do not get any.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, you want to get your wife like, the Sahara desert, just tell her you watch other men open baseball. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

No, it is.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

The equivalent would be. What was it called? The. The Pony Prancer. Like. Oh, God. Like. Or stuffed animals.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hobby horses.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, hobby horses.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Or having a bunch of stuffed animals.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you're a guy for guys.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That's like.

[Adam Schafer]

I was with Jay last weekend, and we were talking because we're all friends and we're all in A group thread together. So that. And a mic it was. And I was teasing the other buddy about that. I was like, like, dude, he what? You know, he's grown ass man and he watches other men open baseball cards. I'm like, that's just. I get the excitement around the baseball cards and it's collectible. So I'm not crapping on that. Like, I just explained an example of, like, you. It's their assets, right? You get the right ones and they're. They're cool. Right? So I get that. But to watch other men open the cards is a little bit too much. A little bit too much for me.

[Sal DeStefano]

And we were.

[Adam Schafer]

We were all together over the Christmas holiday break. And for Christmas, my, My, my is like another mother of mine. So my best friend's mom, she had bought all the. Her boy. Her two boys, and then her. Her husband who's now into the opening the cards. Them. And we're.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's.

[Adam Schafer]

We had boxes of them and for after Christmas, we're all open them up and my buddy and. And his brother are so into it. Like, there's a way to open it and you slide it up one at a time to like, to build up the suspense and so to watch. To watch them get mad at their dad, the way he's opening the cards and the way he's.

[Sal DeStefano]

What are you doing?

[Adam Schafer]

You're going too fast. You're ruining.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

You gotta do it seductively.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, yes, it's exactly right. There's like this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I'll have to show you guys. There's. I got video of, like, it happening and going down.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm like, inside top 10 things that just turn off your wife. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't think that turns any wife on.

[Sal DeStefano]

You don't need it.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I'd be into garbage pill kids if we could just like, bring those back. Those were sick.

[Sal DeStefano]

Those were great. But I ain't watching somebody open a box of them. No, that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's. That's. It's like the video game thing for me. Like, I get the video game thing, but to watch other people play the video game thing, I just don't. That they can't. I can't get behind that.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

That was always annoying because you'd have to wait forever for that older brother and like, cool. You're good at it. But I want to turn. You know, it's like. And that became its own economy.

[Adam Schafer]

It's huge, you know, it's huge. People watch for hours. Other grown adults play video games in open.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Is it t. Pain who makes, like, so much money?

[Adam Schafer]

Does he tour because he makes more money, people watching him play video games than rapping.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what he's known for. It's so wild. Have you know what you got to do? If this is you and your man, this is what you do.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, well, there's definitely people listening that do this.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's fine. I'm going to give you some advice. That's what you do. Have kids. Wait till your kid gets older. And if they get into it now, you can do it now you got a reason to go have fun with toys is because your kids are into it. But if you're doing it on your own, I don't know, go do something else, dude. Don't work out. I don't know.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Do bigger choice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Seed is the world's best probiotic. Look, probiotics have been shown in studies to have some pretty profound effects on you. So definitely helps your digestion. We all know that helps with your skin. There are many studies now that show that probiotic supplementation helps with cognitive function, reduces anxiety, depression. Here's some new stuff. New data is coming out showing it helps with fat loss and muscle gain. I'm not making this up. Your microbiome helps you digest food. It affects your metabolism, creates neurotransmitters. It's a community in your body that helps assist your body. Or it could go against you. One of the best things you can do is supplement with good probiotics. And like I said earlier, Seed is the world's best. Head over to seed.com mindpump use the code 20. Mindpump, get 20% off. Back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Our first caller is Nicole from California.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Nicole.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Nicole?

[Caller Nicole]

Hi, guys. How are you?

[Adam Schafer]

Good. How you doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you? I recognize you. Have we seen you at our events before?

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah, I've been on your calls before, live calls, and I also met you in Las Vegas. And I've come to the studio in person, so I feel like the luckiest person.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good to see you again. How can we help you?

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah, thanks for taking my call. So I wanted to preface my email that I wrote in with a couple of points. I just want to let you know. You guys know that I'm really proud of where I am right now. After listening you guys for three and a half years and running MAPS programs for three years now, I am physically a lot stronger and mentally a lot stronger. So I just feel like I'm in a pretty good place. But I do have a hurdle that's come up over and over again over the last few years. So this is, this is what my email comes in.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. All right.

[Caller Nicole]

So I have a nutrition issue and question. I recently got an email from Mind Pump saying that you have a nutrition plan call option and I want to know if this would be a good fit for me. The nutrition part is my main hurdle. As I mentioned before, I have had a history of restricting heavily and whenever I cut it messes with me mentally. I've been doing your maths programs for a little over three years and I'm super consistent. I love lifting. I have no problem with that at all. I've gotten a lot stronger in the last three years and I think I look buff when I flex. So there's a little layer of fat over it all and it really hasn't messed with me too much in the last year or so. I did bulk up a couple of times the last three years, but I also bulked up in weight like 10 to 12 pounds. And I had started at a heavier body weight than I was used to. So my original goal was to lose body fat and now I feel like I'm ready to cut. But every time I do it I come up with this issue. I recently did three in body scans at my naturopath in the last six months and I went up from like 26.8% body fat to 29% body fat, which was my last one in December. And, and it also says that my muscle mass is in the high section at like 61 pounds of skeletal muscle mass. So she said that's great and I'm really proud of that. So when I do try to cut, it's short lived and I revert back to maintenance because it's less stressful. Mentally I'm not feeling like physically restricted. I don't really get like hunger or anything like that. It's just my, it's all in my mind. So my goal is to lose 10 pounds of body fat and get in a healthier body fat range like around 24, 25% body fat is my goal mainly for health. I've kind of come to like a more comfortable feeling in my, my bigger body. Really mentally I'm just a little bit more concerned health wise. So I'm currently like £153 and I have a really hard time with weighing and tracking my food. And I have hired online coaches before, including Mind Pump Online coach. And it's just, it's just not something I'm willing to do with tracking. So I know I eat currently around like 2000-2200 calories at a maintenance. And I'm really great at hitting my protein. I usually eat well over 140 grams of protein a day. And I do tend to eat a little lower carbohydrate, like around 100. 120 is like my max and I would say I typically hit lower than 100. And my, my fat intake is usually kind of high, like 85 grams. In the past, I did the bulk and I gained the strength, but the fat along with it. And I did bulk up to like 25, 2600 calories. And I didn't feel like I got huge strength gains from that. I kind of just felt like it was a lot of forcing me to eat and probably had something to do with some of the body fat I gained. And I want to know if I was a good candidate to just have somebody go over like what I eat, maybe just in photos, and see if they can just give me like a really simple doable plan that I can stick to. Let's see if I have anything else and then that's it. I just had some of my strength gains written down in the last year. I tracked from December of 2025 to 2024. And I think I did really well at not bulking during that time.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing a good job. You are really, really good job. And just so you know that there is no health benefit if you're fit and healthy and you're strong, especially if you're strong, you're not really going to get a health benefit going from 28, 29 to 25 or 24. So there's no worry about being at the body fat percentage you're at, especially.

[Adam Schafer]

With the muscle you have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. In fact, some of the. Some data suggests it might even be healthier for some women to be in the high 20s, especially as you get older. But you're far from that. But anyway, my point is, if it's for health, there's really no, there's no reason now if you want it to change aesthetics, yeah, that would be great. Yeah. Yeah. So if that's part of it, you know, then we could definitely tackle it. So the question is, and I get it, I get the tracking issue, and a lot of people don't like it. And so here's the thing, part of it comes from for some people that they don't like to be told what to do. And so once they feel controlled and I see you smiling there. So I'm assuming you have that personality, when you. You know, if you're told to do something, that your instinct may be to go and do the opposite or not do it or you feel controlled. Okay.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So. So that's. That's. That's kind of a big issue. And that's. I mean, that's a bigger issue. It doesn't just relate to food. It tends to bleed out into the rest of our lives. Nonetheless, there are ways to coach without tracking. Okay, so there are ways to coach someone to get leaner without track. And I would assume, someone like you, Nicole, that you generally eat the same kind of foods. Most days. I don't think your diet radically changes. Okay. So if I were coaching you or if I were having one of our coaches work with you, then they would work with you based off of that and not necessarily tracking. Yeah. And so it'd be like, change a couple things here, take a couple ounces of whatever here out, and then. And work from there, and then you're on your side. Because I've worked with a lot of people like you, and the challenge can be letting me coach you. And so as a coach, I have to. I have to work with you. I'm just gonna let you in on how coaches work. Okay. I would work with you, and a lot of it would be me helping you feel like it's your idea, because if I tell you to do something, then I know you're gonna want to rebel. And by the way, I have that same personality. So a good coach is gonna really work with you and help you figure it out. But on your end, Nicole, you have to submit and just say, I'll just do it. And not feel controlled, but rather, this is what I want.

[Caller Nicole]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now the question is, can you get down to 24? Yeah, you totally could. You've got good muscle strength. You're consistent. You look healthy. Going down to 24, 25 wouldn't be a problem.

[Adam Schafer]

You'd be a good candidate for our concierge program, where you just check. You just check in with a coach once a month. And so they. They basically do the nutrition plan with you, set it all up, set you. Since you. Since you've got as much experience as you have already, and then they just check in with you on a monthly basis and make tweaks based off of the feedback and what you're giving them. And so I think that would be great. Give me an idea where you're at activity wise. Do you. Do you have any idea how many steps you take a day or anything like that?

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah, I take like 13,000 steps a day.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you're pretty active.

[Caller Nicole]

I do all. I do a three day a week, one hour program for maps. I just finished maps 40 plus and I just started Muscle Mommy yesterday again for the like, I've done it like four times at least. And then I do. I've been doing the one day of the sprinting from maps 40 plus on my Tuesday. So I work out Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then on Tuesday I just do like a 15, 20 minute sprinting on a, on a cycle, like a bike.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah. You, you're pretty active. That's. That's a lot of steps. So typically when I, when I. Were you doing that. When you reverse dieted too, the steps.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Caller Nicole]

I've been consistent with that for years, like a decade. I have a dog and I walk her every day.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So it's kind of like where you stay. How hard is it to increase from there?

[Caller Nicole]

It'd be hard.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a lot.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Caller Nicole]

I don't think I want to do that.

[Adam Schafer]

So the reason why I asked that is because another way to, to help to without tracking macros is like, what I would do with someone like you is we would do like a reverse diet first, which means since you're already at high steps, I'd actually take back on steps, which would already start to cause a reverse diet because you're moving less.

[Caller Nicole]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

And do a bulk with a smaller amount of calories, less activity. And then when we decide to cut, I increase your activity while cutting or cutting a few things out, changing a few things in the diet, like what you told you would tell me what you ate for the day and I'd be like, oh, cool. Instead of having six ounces there, I just want you to have five ounces there. And instead of having a five. A full cup of that, I just want you to have a half a cup of that. And I could just, I could take away a few hundred calories and I could get you to move 2,000 more steps. But if you're already at peak amount of activity, I don't have a lot of room to play with. This is, by the way, this is exactly what I'm doing with Corinne right now is like, I've told her, like, hey, no going out of your way to get steps. We're in the reverse diet phase right now, so stop with the walking like crazy. I need to be able to use that as a tool to go into our cut. And right now it's just about bulking, getting stronger and adding calories. And then one of the first things that I will do is I will modify a little bit of the food and I'll say, okay, now I want you to get 2,000 more steps a day. But if you're already at peak steps and you stay at peak steps all the time, that's a lever that we can't pull right now. And so it would be another strategy if you don't like tracking, that's a great strategy to pull that lever. But then I got to get you to pull back right now while we reverse diet and build muscle and then go the other direction.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah, I don't see me pulling back on my steps just because like that's my daily. That's just how active I am. And I don't want to give up my. I just like a two mile walk I do with my dog every day outside in the sunshine. So.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't change that. It would be the. Anything you get on the. Any sort of cardio equipment.

[Caller Nicole]

I don't do it. Except for Tuesday. I do like I said, A 15 minute. It's that sprinting of 15 seconds and then a minute of rest. And I do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not much.

[Caller Nicole]

Is that too much?

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, here's the other thing too you want to consider. Okay. Is you want to look at, okay. What's how much of an improvement in life quality is a 3 or 4% loss in body fat. And then compare that to the changes that you would make and is it worth it? Now here's the thing with body fat percentage, Nicole.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

People store body fat in ways that where someone can be at 28% and look great and other women will store it differently at 28 and have to get much leaner. If you store around your a lot on your midsection, then I don't think so.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah, I'm all booty.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So you probably store it in a very healthy way.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a good thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So, you know, okay, if you lost, if you drop 4% body fat, which you could go after and try, is that going to give you like, is it going to be worth, you know, is the juice worth this? Worth the.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, especially if it makes you do things like I was already starting to mention, like it starts to make you manipulate your steps and now you have to kind of track, you know, where you would be just to get 4%.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, where you would benefit from Coaching more than the diet. Maybe small tweaks in the diet, but probably individualization of your program design at your level, your consistency. If you were my client and I'm talking to you and I'm hearing all this stuff, I might make a couple little suggestions with diet. But then I'm gonna look at your workout and I'm gonna individualize it. So you're following our general programming, which is good, but nothing beats individualization. So I'm gonna look at it and I'm gonna say, okay, I'm gonna change this, change that, and then that would. That would leverage your metabolism in a positive way. Cause the body shape changes that you're probably looking for.

[Caller Nicole]

That'd be cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

It would be more of a programming thing. There definitely would be some diet suggestions, but it wouldn't be hardcore diet.

[Adam Schafer]

This is why I think she's so perfect for the concierge, because she's got. It would just be those tweaks. When we meet once a month, it's just like, hey, this is what we're gonna be doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm following Muscle Mommy. Here's what my weight, you know, these are the weights I'm using. Here's whatever. Then they would make individualization to your programming.

[Caller Nicole]

Okay, that sounds pretty great. I didn't know that was an option. Even though I listen to you guys every, every podcast you put out. I guess I missed that one.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, no, we don't really. We don't push and promote it. It's just something that we offer to our clients as. As an option. Typically, clients will go through like a pro program, get to their goal, and then it's one of our ways to kind of just maintain a client that now has all the tools. Like you've list, obviously you've been listening, you've been going through this. Sounds like you have a lot of those tools. And so you would be somebody who I could send right to that direction.

[Caller Nicole]

That sounds great. As far as like my personality and matching me up with someone, I've just realized, like, I'm really blunt. I like full blown honesty and sometimes I need to be kind of like pushed around.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller Nicole]

So like, if someone's really like more of a meek personality, it doesn't really work out with me. It's just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah.

[Caller Nicole]

So you got, if you got someone in mind, that would be great.

[Adam Schafer]

We'll take. We'll take care of that for you. We'll take care of that for you, Nicole. Yeah. Yeah. Now that we know who, now we know sending over, we'll we'll take care of who you get with. Don't worry.

[Sal DeStefano]

We'll put in the notes.

[Caller Nicole]

Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. Well, thank you guys for all your time. I really appreciate you. You guys crack me up every time I listen to you, and I'm really, really proud of how strong I've gotten, even though it's not like the numbers some of your live callers put out.

[Adam Schafer]

You're doing. You're doing awesome, Nicole.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing really good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Keep it up.

[Caller Nicole]

Thanks, guys. Have a great day.

[Adam Schafer]

You too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I gotta. I gotta say this too, because we get hung up on body fat percentage. Body fat distribution makes a big difference. Like, huge difference. Like.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, there's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Especially for women because. So men generally store body fat the same, although you could have a weird distribution. Like a dude could store it in his hips and. But for the most parts on our belly, women, if they store it hourglass style and there's muscle underneath. 28, 29 looks amazing. Yeah. In many women. So distribute. So sometimes we get hung up. Well, I should probably be down here. And then for health purposes, if you're fit, there's no difference.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, it's not gonna make it, especially with good muscle. And so, you know, she reminds me of one of my last clients that I had. In fact, I still was in contact and helping her for a long time, even while we're doing this podcast. And she's always. Was always asking for the next percentage. And I was constantly reminded, you look great, you're in great shape. And it's like, you want this next 4%, but what it. What you have to sacrifice to get that 4% is not. Not only will you not be any healthier, arguably you'd be less healthy to get to that next 4% that you're. You're talking about, but then you're going to have to, like, just. You're not gonna be able to enjoy that. You love to go out with the girls every once in a while and have a glass of wine. You love to do these things that. Those are. Those are great, healthy, balanced parts of your life that you have found a way to keep yourself in a healthy place. Strong and fast fit and to ask for that. There's the sacrifice that. And it's just. And I can hear that in her voice, like, I don't want to do that. I don't want. Well, then, then just. Okay, then you're doing great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Belief that if you. If you look shredded, you'll have this. Your life is dramatically better. It's not true. No, it doesn't change that much to go from unhealthy to healthy. Big difference.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah, well, I'm glad she was too. Was interested in kind of changing up her training because, like, a lot of times just focusing on that is going to take you so much further.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

You get what you want. And then two, you got all these, you know, new abilities you didn't have before.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what I would have done with, if she was my client. Just from talking with her, it'd be like, I'm going to work on programming with you. Yeah, that's what we're going to do.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Have fun with it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Alex from Massachusetts.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Alex.

[Adam Schafer]

What's happening, Alex?

[Nicole (Caller)]

So nice to meet you guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. How can we help you?

[Nicole (Caller)]

So I am in my second postpartum. I had two babies kind of back to back. They're six and a half months apart. Prior to having kids, I focus on my fitness for like two hours a day. Loved running, did five half marathons in a year. And, you know, I've kept my nutrition pretty consistent while having my kids, but I just haven't focused on fitness. So I'm kind of coming out of that fog of my postpartum, really looking to get back into fitness again. Just wanted your take on what should I change and how do I really start this process.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thanks for calling in, Alex.

[Adam Schafer]

When you were, when you were running, were you also strength training or just running?

[Nicole (Caller)]

So I was doing both. I definitely did more running than strength training. I just really fell in love with it. It was kind of therapeutic for me. So majority of the time I definitely was running with probably like short, you know, 20 minute strength training every now and again.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I'm really glad you called in. So there's a couple things you did. The majority of the work is before you get pregnant, which you did, you were fit, you were exercising. That makes the biggest impact. Here's the other thing, Alex, that you're not describing here to people who don't understand. It's a lot on your body to have one baby. It's a lot, a lot to have two babies within a year of each other. It's a radical change on the body. And a woman's body doesn't feel fully recover for probably two years. And so you were six months later, boom, pregnant again.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I can tell you this, you're going to do fine unless you push it, unless you're not patient. You got to do less than you think.

[Caller Nicole]

Okay?

[Sal DeStefano]

And assume your body's not the same for probably two years after your last child?

[Caller Nicole]

Yep.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Okay. Yeah, I'm about a year. So she's about a year and a half. I have two kids. I have a son who's three and my daughter who's a year and a half.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, you're getting there. You're close.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Yeah, I feel that fog kind of lifting. Right. Like, it's, you know, my independence is coming back a little bit. I'm feeling like, you know, I'm ready to go. I want to get that endurance back, but obviously my nervous system takes a lot of shots during the day. So just trying to be realistic about really what can I accomplish?

[Adam Schafer]

Are you open to flipping the focus at this point in your life right now on more of the strength training and less of the running where you're currently at? And we can always pick more of the running up later on.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I definitely have muscle that I have to rebuild. And I know obviously strength training would. Would help me get there probably faster than just running and, you know, being able to focus on different areas of my body. Because I'm sure if you guys have, you know, your young kids, you know, you're using a lot of muscle to take care of them. So I'd love to kind of rebuild that.

[Adam Schafer]

So for sure, it's also. So that's all true. And then also it's the amount of time it takes to run long distance versus how little strength training you need to do to build your body and strength back.

[Caller Nicole]

You could.

[Adam Schafer]

We could literally spend 15 minutes a day doing one or two exercises for your body that is going to do what wonders for getting you back to feeling like your normal self, where the running for half hours to hours at a time is a lot of time, and that's a lot for very little return. Right on in your pursuit.

[Sal DeStefano]

I. I hate running postpartum. It's the worst because it's high impact. Your pelvic floor muscles need to get strengthened. The recruitment patterns need to come back. You need to strengthen your body, activities, everything. Yeah, you do that impact and you're going to find issues with your pelvic floor either through injury or other things that happen when you bounce up and down after having a baby. And you'll. So. So I don't like. I never liked running postpartum until we did a nice bout of correctional exercise. So we have a program that's perfect. It's called Maps Starter. I'm gonna send that to you. Don't worry, I'll send it to you and it's gonna feel basic, it's gonna feel easy. That's the point. I want you to focus on bracing your core. I want you to focus on connecting to your pelvic floor while you're doing these exercises. Like you're doing kind of a Kegel while you're doing your movements to strengthen the muscles that have changed in terms of the recruitment patterns. And a Map starter is a good thing. Three months.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

So do that whole program for three months after Maps Starter, you're going to do Maps 15. Okay. Maps 15 is another three months after that. If you feel good, then you can move to something like Maps Anabolic.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Now the entire time your body's going to change. So I don't want you to think like, oh, I'm doing this basic thing, nothing. You're going to see your body change. Fight the urge to do more than the program because you're going to start to feel good, which is a good sign. And then you're gonna be like, I want to do more.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

This is a lot of the opposite of your natural tendency, especially being a runner going into this really slowing down and like using tempo is your friend here for like really slow wraps and like focusing on that tension, control and connection. And so if you can do these wraps, super slow pace with that, that's gonna move you so much further towards. Now you feeling like yourself again and able bodied.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm a big fan of pushing the stroller and going for a walk. Just no running. That's it, that's, that's what you do for more activity. If you got, you know, the ability to take the kids out, go for a nice walk, do stuff like that, but stick to the strength training protocol. And if you are somebody who does have good discipline and you're. And you pride yourself on that. Similar to my wife, what I had to keep telling her through Map starter is this is perfect, this is enough. You don't need more. Just keep, trust me, I know what I'm doing. And so she kept telling me, I'm ready, I'm ready, I feel good. Yeah. And so, you know, be that person in your own ear if you. Or find somebody to be that person in your ear to tell you that as you go through this process, just like Sal said, follow that out. You go starter all the way through as it's laid out, not more than what is in there. Then you go from there to Maps 15 as it's laid out, not more from there. And the Only thing that's more is walks. You can go take walks. All good for that. But you do that, focus on hitting your protein intake and feeding the nourishing the body right now and you'll be back in no time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you nursing or are you not?

[Nicole (Caller)]

No, I'm fully weaned off of it now, so body's back to just me for the first time and quite a long time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you take creatine?

[Nicole (Caller)]

I do. The past, I would say two months, I've taken it consistently.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good. How many grams a day are you taking? Taking?

[Nicole (Caller)]

I'm doing five right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, try 10.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Try 10. For the brain.

[Adam Schafer]

Break it out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Two doses. So, yeah, that'll be good for brain. And then do you hit your body, your target body weight and protein?

[Nicole (Caller)]

So that's what ithat's been my main focus. You know, I know I'm eating the kids scraps right now. Like, I know I need to, you know, focus a little bit more on getting what I really, truly need to fuel myself for these workouts coming up. And that was something I wanted to ask you guys too. I don't really have a weight target. Right. I don't necessarily feel awful right now. I just want to build muscle. So should I kind of hit that protein for the weight that I'm currently at, or do you think I should.

[Adam Schafer]

Try to increase it a little? Where are you at right now?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, how tall are you and how much do you weigh?

[Nicole (Caller)]

So I'm 54 and I'm 135.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, 130.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. 130 grams of protein.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. That's a good target.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Here's where you go. 35 to 40 grams of protein, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Throw in a shake, you're done. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep, yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Perfect.

[Adam Schafer]

But like you said, hit that consistently. That paired with starter in the programs, that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm going to warn you again, Alex, if you follow our advice and you start hitting the protein targets and you're following starter two to three weeks in, you're going to feel like superwoman and you're going to want to push it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're going to. You're going to be like, I know he said this, but I feel amazing. I'm going to get after it. And you'll. And that. That's where stuff starts to break down. So just follow it, just trust it. And you'll see your body's gonna respond. You'll feel amazing. It'll be a perfect progression.

[Adam Schafer]

Goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. That's what you're doing. Just as little as possible.

[Nicole (Caller)]

And I am home with my kids. I'm a stay at home mom, so I know a lot of my energy also goes there, so I need to. And I think I'll have the same problem as your wife trying to slow myself down, but.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you have weights at home?

[Nicole (Caller)]

Yes, we have a full gym set up, my husband and I. Oh, you're upset.

[Adam Schafer]

That's awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Starter's easy, too. You just need a physio ball and then you're done. You got the rest of it.

[Adam Schafer]

You're good?

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Nice. Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cool.

[Adam Schafer]

You're gonna do great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good job. You want to check back in? You want to check in? In like, three months?

[Nicole (Caller)]

Awesome. I'd love to. I appreciate you guys so much, and you guys have been a great podcast. It's been nice to listen to you guys and have, you know, realistic, you know, advice for where I am in my life.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, good. We'll have you on in three months, and then based off that, we'll send you another program so you don't have to get it right.

[Caller Nicole]

Okay.

[Nicole (Caller)]

All right, awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, we'll see you then. You got it.

[Nicole (Caller)]

See ya.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bye. Bye. I'm glad she called in.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've been speaking to this a few times now on the most recent podcast, but there's so much misleading information to women who've had children. And it comes from these fitness fanatic influencers that are like, I just had my baby six months ago. Look at me. No, it takes a while, dude. It takes way longer than they communicate. And then if you have babies back to back, which six months is back to back, that'll do a number that's.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

A lot for the body to go through.

[Sal DeStefano]

And your pelvic floor muscles really get affected. Okay. Not just from the delivery, but just from the stretching and the. The growing baby. And so this is where you hear the, you know, women will say things like, oh, I do jumping jack and I pee myself or whatever. Running. Postpartum terrible. Strengthen your pelvic floor first before you go run, because that's an injury waiting.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't Corinne working on a postpartum guide right now?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Awesome. Hopefully it'll be out soon.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Sarah from Tennessee.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Sarah.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Sarah? Hello.

[Sarah (Caller)]

Oh, my gosh, this is so awesome. Thank you guys so much for all the awesome content you guys have taught me so much. Okay, so my question is, how can I safely Fast without compromising muscle. I've been an athlete my whole life, and I've actually been doing Jesse Hilgenberg's programs. Like, I. Well, I found her 16 years ago. And so I count my macros and all that, but I'm not super religious about it. I mainly track my protein. But I will say, when I track macros, I do much better at, like, actually eating all the food I need to eat. I used to fast once a week, kind of more for spiritual practices, but then as I've gotten older, I've become more concerned about losing muscle mass. And I do feel like my spiritual life does better when I have some kind of fasting in my life. The last time I did a fast, I mainly did, like, I. It was gross.

[Nicole (Caller)]

I did.

[Sarah (Caller)]

I wanted to get all my macros. So, like, I basically did, like, oil. Like, I would drink protein shakes with, like, oil or juice in them. I mean, it did the trick. But if you guys have any tips for me, I would welcome anything that you guys have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, this is a great question, Sarah. Are you Christian?

[Sarah (Caller)]

Yeah, I am.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, if you're fasting for spiritual purposes, right, which is denying yourself, denying the flesh, and you're trying to circumvent that with. But I'm going to do this thing over here to not lose muscle, then don't do the fast.

[Sarah (Caller)]

Yeah, yeah, I get that.

[Sal DeStefano]

If it's a form of submission, you know, God knows your heart. And so from a spiritual perspective, if it's for spiritual purposes, if you're worried about the muscle loss and you're trying to hack it somehow and figure out how to get around it, it's like. You know what it reminds me of? It's like teenagers not having sex but doing everything else because they're like, well, that's. We're not supposed to do that. So we'll do this other stuff. So my advice is don't fast. But if you're doing it for spiritual purposes, then just. Then just do also. And honestly, it's not going to make that.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, as I say, that's the. Also, sir, keep in mind, if you are six days a week, you hit macros, lift weights, do your thing. One day of fasting, you are not losing muscle. You're not losing muscle.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Yeah.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

If you. If you hit. If you hit macros, especially your protein intake, let's say you don't even hit all your macros, but you hit your protein intake consistently through the week and you're lifting weights, you're fine. You are fine to not Eat anything and have nothing but water all day for a day. And you're not going to compromise muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

You will not.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

You'll be just fine.

[Caller Nicole]

You'll be.

[Adam Schafer]

You'll be totally fine. Yes. So there's nothing for you to worry about from that. Now. If you rarely ever hit protein intake and miss macros and then you also add a fast on there, then okay, then we. But it's not the fast fault. I'd say it's more because you're inconsistent with hitting macros in your protein the rest of the week. That's. That's really doing the damage. So that's where you. As long as you're consistent and doing good with that, the fast is fine. And maybe that's how I would decide if I was going to do a fast on Sunday is like. Or whatever day it is. It's like, hey, I did really good this week. I got my lifting in, I hit my macros. You know what? Now on. On Sunday or whatever, I'm gonna fast. Like, that's a great idea. Not a great idea if you're inconsistent with your eating. Instant.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's also other ways to fast, too. I mean, you can fast from food, you can fast from electronics.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can fast forward from gossip or whatever. There's other ways to fast if you're doing it for spiritual purposes.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That's right.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Sarah (Caller)]

I definitely feel like fasting from food is like, it definitely helps me feel more grounded. I've done water fast, too, and I felt really grounded for the rest of the week. And I'm very disciplined with my. Well, I'm disciplined in general, but I really like, like hitting my macros. I like getting those goals every day. But I'm glad to hear that it's not really going to make that big of a difference because as a woman, I will say that you guys constantly telling us that.

[Sal DeStefano]

We don't need to.

[Sarah (Caller)]

Be over training and under eating, that has really impacted me a lot. And my hormone levels have been so much better since I have eaten consistently. And the week before menstruation, when I'm normally insane, it has completely, like, alleviated that. So I think there's like a fear here of like, okay, if I take one day off a week, am I gonna be insane because I took that.

[Caller Nicole]

One day off, you know?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, no, you're gonna, you're gonna be good, Sarah. Especially if you're really good about doing the other stuff the rest of the week, you're gonna be good. In fact, you're gonna get great benefits from it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And if you do feel. If you do feel like it's not great, then. Then I would say try other fast.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, because everybody's a little different. But I think you'll be all right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I love fasting from tech. I think tech for a day. No tech, no phone, and no such. Such a Such.

[Sal DeStefano]

Same here. Because I could fast from food way easier.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Stay away from the news.

[Adam Schafer]

I think that stuff is just as nasty and dangerous for us and awful for us and such a good practice to do.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's also harder for me. Yeah, Yeah.

[Sarah (Caller)]

I. I will say I'm a stay at home mom, and I have the privilege of, like, we have a landline because my husband is like, you're never. I cannot reach you on your phone because my phone's normally on airplane mode.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

So love that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good for you.

[Sarah (Caller)]

Yeah, I'm definitely in my own world here.

[Adam Schafer]

That's good. That's a good thing. I like. I like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You'll be fine, though. So if you're the fat, fast one time a week, especially if you're hitting protein throughout the rest of the week, you'll be just fine.

[Sarah (Caller)]

Okay. I appreciate your input. Thanks, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Sarah (Caller)]

Have a good one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bye. Bye. It's so important when you ask somebody why they're fasting. Fasting for fat loss. Bad idea. Fasting for whatever. Bad for spiritual purposes. There's lots of value. But then you got to be again, by the way, I'm not speaking out of this because I'm perfect. This is the same struggle I have. You'll do something for spiritual purposes, but then what you'll do is try to control it and it loses its value because you're not giving it.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

You're justifying it somewhere else.

[Sal DeStefano]

It doesn't need to be. You're not giving it up. You're not going like, this is for you. It's like, well, I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna control these levers so that I don't lose muscle, so that I. And like, you brought up fasting from electronics. If you gave me the choice, I would fast from food because electronics is way harder for me. Yeah. So I know that that would be the one that probably.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. Which is even more reason why if you're doing it for special reasons, that's the direction you go.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So I think anybody who knows that they have a vice or a draw or a pull to something, especially something worldly, and you're doing it for spiritual reasons. It doesn't have to be food.

[Sal DeStefano]

Food.

[Adam Schafer]

Food is just what, what it was hundreds of years ago. It was so popular. It's like there's so many things today that you can just be like, but.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

There'S, it's just supposed to be to interrupt, you know, what your normal daily routine is and so you can focus on, you know, higher things.

[Sal DeStefano]

But there are two ways this gets manipulated spiritually. One is the person who wants to restrict their food, and so then they use the fasting for spiritual purposes as an excuse use. Right, right. I'm doing this for spiritual purposes, but really deep down, it's so I can starve myself. Then on the other end, you get the, like, I'm gonna do this thing, but maybe it's the bodybuilder, the fitness enthusiast, but I'm gonna drink amino acids all day and protein shakes all day because that technically is liquid.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I don't want to lose muscle. And again, you're losing the. Really losing the reason why you're doing it in the first place.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Well, I mean, our space has done a poor job of like, having those type of articles out there and things to scare me.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, and not to mention, if you, if, if you are good with your lifting and consistency with your macros during the week, I would argue there's nothing but good benefits for that day of fasting. You're not gonna, you're not gonna just use muscle. I remember when I thought the same way too, though. I remember I thought I went two hours, let alone a day panic. So I get it. I totally get it. But yeah, it's not true.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Natalie from Oregon.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Natalie.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Natalie? Hello.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Nice to see you all.

[Sal DeStefano]

Me too. How can we help you?

[Natalie (Caller)]

Yes, So I have listened for about two years. I have done two match programs. Anabolic twice and performance once. And what I would love help with is having a successful cut, losing that last ten pounds, like those hardest last ten pounds. So I've listened to your advice over these last years, and I've actually reverse dieted. I'm on my third reverse diet, so I've bulked three different times. And about to start my third cut, and especially the last one that I tried, I just feel like, well, not feel. Looking at the data, all I did was lose what I had gained during the bulk, and I really wasn't much leaner. I paid attention to my measurements for that. And my daughter's in the background and I just don't think I Think I really just lost about what I had gained. I think that my body is amazing at adjusting. And so when I cut calories, my body real quick is like, all right, this is our new maintenance.

[Caller Nicole]

Awesome.

[Natalie (Caller)]

And my timeline is on. May 31 is my sixth anniversary, and my husband and I will be going on a belated honeymoon. So we got married during COVID in 2020, and we've never been anywhere together.

[Caller Nicole]

We haven't.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Well, we've been to the beach together, but we haven't traveled on a plane together. So this will be our first trip. My mom's going to watch our daughter, and I would love to feel confident in a bathing suit for this trip.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Congratulations. That sounds like a lot of fun.

[Adam Schafer]

This is super common, by the way, not just for normal people, even at the competitive level. These people that do this professionally, where they bulk up and then they cut down and they basically lose the muscle that they built up on the bulk. And a lot of that is due to too aggressive of a cut. In fact, you were probably doing even better in the bulk and the calories that we cut down to and. Or the activity. Because typically, what tends to happen is they get motivated in the cut, and they increase activity like crazy. They cut the calories so they can see the scale move really fast, and what ends up happening is they lose as much muscle as they did fat. When you did the reverse diet, how high did you get your calories to?

[Natalie (Caller)]

So right now. So right now, I'm eating well. I attempted 2,900 last week, and my waist started to go up a little bit. I've been, like, creeping up there. So I'm backing down to 2,800.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's great. That's good. That's good.

[Natalie (Caller)]

My goal is just to not have my waist go up much. But when I bulked over the spring last year and then cut, I went up to. I went right up to 2,800, and I think that was actually too much. So when I did my first cut from 2,800, it was to 2,300. I did that for four weeks, and I lost one pound. So I think because it wasn't my maintenance, I didn't actually know what my maintenance was because I was gaining. My waist did go up. It was too much, I think, that first time. But I do think I've gained more muscle and did it more slowly since that time. So now right around 2,800, I'm hoping, is my maintenance. I feel like I need a little more data.

[Sal DeStefano]

Natalie. I want A little bit more context. You look pretty lean in your shoulders and your arms. What's your body fat percentage at?

[Natalie (Caller)]

No clue. I've never done a Dex set, and I haven't had a picture in like 15 years.

[Adam Schafer]

How tall. How tall are you and how much you weigh?

[Natalie (Caller)]

So I am 5:3. I weigh about 131, 132 pounds. I would guess I'm around 25% body fat if I had to guess.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

You're probably pretty lean.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're probably. You might even be lower based off of your shoulders and arms. It's hard to tell. But I can see your delts. I could see your arms. Typically, for a woman to have that, she's probably. You're probably low 20s.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which, here's what happens if you're in the low 20s and you're building and you're strong. You're reverse dieting. It's this game of mini cut mini bulk to get down even leaner. Because once you get down to like 22, 21 for some women, for a lot of women, the body starts to fight it a little bit and not want to go. And so you kind of have to play this game and it just takes a little bit of time. How are your lifts? Because you said. I seen your email. You ran maps. Anabolic mass performance. How strong are you? Can you give me an idea?

[Natalie (Caller)]

So not strong compared to a lot of the women I've heard call in. But I've made improvements. So yesterday I did my score. Squat was. My last four reps were 145.

[Adam Schafer]

That's great.

[Natalie (Caller)]

I did a sumo deadlift of 195.

[Adam Schafer]

This is great.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Incline bench 75. And yesterday my overhead press was 65.

[Nicole (Caller)]

For sets of four.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're strong.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're doing really.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're really strong.

[Adam Schafer]

Natalie, how many steps do you take a day? Do you have any idea what your activity level looks like?

[Natalie (Caller)]

Yeah, I average in a week. I average about 8,500.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Is that like you going out of your way to walk or is that just kind of your normal activity?

[Natalie (Caller)]

I definitely have to put in some effort to get that. Like, sometimes I'm just running in place in my house at night.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Was living in Oregon in the weather.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I have a pretty good guess of where I would want you, and I think you would just. But here's the temptation you're going to have because you have a thing coming up and so you're going to want to push it. I bet hitting around 2,600 to 2,700 calories. Trying to hit 10,000 steps every day and maybe switching the maps program to a new one that you haven't done yet.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're going to get a nice slow change.

[Adam Schafer]

You're going to get a beautiful slow change. You're not going to have to cut calories aggressively. You're not really trying to reverse diet anymore. You're just kind of landing in this. And what that will do is this. If I can get your steps up two more thousand steps a day, I know I'm going to increase a little bit more activity and burn just a little bit more. If I switch the maps program, it's going to be novel and there's going to be periods of time in the next two months where you're in a little bit of a deficit. So you're going to lean out a little bit and sometimes you're going to be in a tiny bit maybe of a maintenance surplus. And so you're going to build a little bit. And what that'll do is keep you from losing any muscle. Maybe we even gain a pound or so during that time. But leaning out the whole time, if we just hover there, you, you, it sounds like you're in a really good place. When you eat those 28, 2900 calories right now, how do you feel? Do you feel like you're stuffed? Do you feel satisfied? How do you like that amount of food?

[Natalie (Caller)]

I like it.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. See, I, I, I like.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing good.

[Adam Schafer]

You, you're, you're probably really. And, and the scale can get in your head of like it's not really moving. But change will be happening. If you increase your steps to 10,000 steps a day, you just focus on trying to stay strong. Land around that 2,700 calorie range or so. Don't dip below 2600. That's kind of your mark. 26 to 2700 range. And just stay consistent. I think you will have a nice change. You're going to lean out and you're going to build muscle at the same time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I wouldn't do anything dramatic. You're strong. Your body weight is good. I would guess your body fat percentage is good. We're looking at building and losing a little bit over time. Programming. I love what Adam said with programming. Let's get you strong. So like a maps, you can do like a power lift. Muscle mommy strong. All three of those programs would probably be great. Yeah, I think that would be, that would be the best advice and Your energy probably is good. I'm assuming energy, sleep, libido feels good. Your hormones feel balanced.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Sleep is the one. But I have a four year old and I'm 44, so I don't always get seven hours, but I'm in bed a good amount of time. Sometimes I'm awake.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you look, I wouldn't have guessed your age by the way. You look amazing. I think what Adam said is exactly, that's exactly right.

[Adam Schafer]

You're. I, I mean, I feel like I kind of have a body type similar to this where when I, when I cut too aggressively, I just, I lose weight, but I lose muscle right off. I do better in this kind of maintenance or surplus. I have to be eating enough to keep that muscle on my body. Otherwise it just comes right off with the body fat. And so I can drop weight on the side the scale, but I lose them. And so I do much better staying closer to my maintenance and leaning slowly than I do trying to grassley. Not everybody's like that. I've shared on the show and how long you listen. I had an ex girlfriend that was the opposite. She could starve her body train like a mad woman and never lose any muscle and she would slowly lose body fat. I'm, I'm different like that. I, I lose muscle really quick if I don't stimulate it, I don't feed it like what it wants. And I think you're kind of like that. I think you'll do better in a closer to maintenance calorie range. So hovering around that 26, 2700. And then just try your best to get 10,000 steps in a day. Really make that your new average of.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like if you, if you do this good and you stay consistent by. It's May. When's your trip? May 31st.

[Natalie (Caller)]

It's in 17 weeks. I just checked.

[Sal DeStefano]

So yeah.

[Natalie (Caller)]

May 31st.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah. You could drop 3% body fat.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

By then. Which you'll see.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And that's. It sounds slow, but you'll be, you'll eat muscle if not build.

[Adam Schafer]

And if we do a really good job of this, you drop down the 26, 27 and we don't see major movement on the scale. The scale doesn't really looks different. Yeah, the scale shouldn't move very much. It should kind of maybe a pound or two, but like it should kind of hover around there and that, that tells me you were having this beautiful exchange of. Sometimes we're in a little bit of a buildings phase. Sometimes we're in a Little cut and you're having a nice little exchange so that you, you don't want to see any dramatic drops or, or increases. But you shouldn't see an increase if you're already up to 28, 20, 900 calories and you come down to 27.

[Caller Nicole]

Okay.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Because I know the biggest thing I'd like to see is my waist. Like again, I know I'm comparing myself to like my old self because I've lifted for 20 years, but I haven't always done proper strength training with good amount of rest time. And so looking at like measure and I'm had a kid, but looking at measurements from like 10 or 15 years ago and it's like my waist is just staying right around that 27 inches and I just, I want to see.

[Adam Schafer]

It get a little, I think, I think this way it'll do that. If you want to add something, add like the like stomach vacuum exercises that we talk about. That'll help that, that'll help strengthen the core, which will draw in the, the stomach.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a TVA exercise.

[Adam Schafer]

So you never.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. We have on our mind pump TV channel.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll have Doug send you the video. So I'll have Doug send you over the video. Practice those throughout the day. These are great for working on those internal muscles that will draw the stomach in and that will actually a lot of times will make someone's waist look like it's half an inch to an inch smaller just by getting stronger in the core areas. Doing that with the advice I'm giving you, I think you will see and feel a difference within 30, 45 days already. But stay the course, Stay the course.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

You are doing great.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're eating almost 3,000 calories a day. You're really strong.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing really good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I think your body does better fed than it does.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's the deal. And now it makes sense. You've been lifting for 20 years, albeit maybe not as good, not, not nearly.

[Natalie (Caller)]

As, but very long, like year long breaks in the middle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Fine.

[Natalie (Caller)]

I was all in or all out Fine.

[Sal DeStefano]

But my point is if muscle memories. Here's the problem with someone like you who's been doing it for a while and you're strong already, you're lean, you fit, you're, you're feeling good, you're eating, your metabolism's humming. Especially for someone your size, that's a lot of calories. If you push too hard in any direction, you're going to get negative results.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like you go Too hard in any direction, you're just not going to be happy with the results. So the best bet for you is exactly what Adam said. You drop 100, maybe 200 calories and you walk a little more, and then watch what happens. By the time you're ready to go, you'll see the change.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Okay, I will give that a shot.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're good.

[Adam Schafer]

I love to hear back from you. About 30, 45 days too, I think.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you have muscle, Mommy?

[Natalie (Caller)]

No. Is that. I do work from home.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's fine.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Work out from home.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you can do that. You can do that from home.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll send it to you.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

Home program.

[Natalie (Caller)]

Okay, great. That sounds good. Thank you all so much.

[Nicole (Caller)]

Bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bye. I can always tell by the delts. Yeah. So as she's talking, I'm like, you pretty. Look like you're pretty lean and muscular. Yeah. So we'll see about that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And great numbers. Strong. Yeah. Very, very strong. And health. Great metabolism. 28, 2900 calories and lean and fit. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

She's not like she's doing tons of.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm telling you right now that she has, like, this is me, where.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

If I go real aggressive on a cut, I'll drop weight on the scale.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But then I lose muscle as fast.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's like I've gotten leaner by increasing my calories.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm like that, too.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. I do better at just kind of staying fed. If I stay fed and. And hover around maintenance, that's enough for me to lean out slowly, and I just don't do good in real cuts. You know, it's like, I think. I think every body type is a little bit different. I think understanding that the client and how they are, the advice ends up being different. Because if you're somebody who has a really hard time building muscle, then, you know, I feel like that same person is having. Has a really easy time losing weight on the scale, but then the muscle comes right off with it, you know?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Justin, you have to starve yourself.

[Justin (Alternate Speaker)]

I guess so.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. You can find us at Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes more maps, Anabolic maps, performance and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.