2801: 3 Ways to Build Muscle and Endurance (How you Should Approach your Training)

Summary

Mind Pump Ep 2801: 3 Ways to Build Muscle and Endurance (How You Should Approach Your Training)

Released: February 25, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

This episode of Mind Pump dives into the challenge of building muscle, strength, and endurance simultaneously – a classic fitness “competing goals” scenario. The hosts explore three different science-backed strategies for training both attributes, discuss the real-world psychology behind program adherence, and provide direct advice to listeners dealing with these conflicts in their own fitness, including performance-vs-aesthetic goals and adjustments for postpartum women or shift workers.

The episode also features live caller Q&As addressing fat loss sustainability, balancing running with strength, and guidance for night-shift training. The hosts’ signature humor and candidness are on display, along with their in-depth, practical expertise.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding the Strength & Endurance Tradeoff

• Main question: If you want both strength and endurance, how should you approach your training?
• Sal: “Building strength and muscle and getting endurance and stamina… compete. The more you focus on one, the less you get of the other. But what if you want both?”
• Research shows that results can be similar or slightly different depending on the training split and the specific goal (e.g., pure attributes vs. skill in a sport).

The Three Main Approaches:

• A. Blended Sessions: Train both strength and endurance in the same workout (“Hybrid/CrossFit” style).
• B. Split Sessions: Alternate separate strength and endurance workouts within the week (e.g., lift Mon, run Tues).
• C. Alternating Weeks: Commit to one week of strength, then one week of endurance, and repeat.

[05:22-08:42] Framing the “Hybrid Athlete” Problem

• Consistency matters more than programming perfection: “It’s… your consistency over time.”
• Enjoyment and personal preference should guide the method, as adherence is the key to long-term success.

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2. Pros & Cons of the Three Approaches

A. Blended (Same Workout) Approach

• [08:42-13:20]
• Very popular with “hybrid athletes,” event-focused lifters, or those who enjoy “the sweat.”
• Pros:
  • Simplifies programming, easier for inconsistent schedules.
  • Fits people who hate to skip “the fun part” of workouts.
  • Best when the sport demands both attributes simultaneously (e.g., CrossFit competition).
• Cons:
  • Less specificity – don’t maximize either strength or endurance.
  • Mental and technical aspects of each quality get blended; you don’t master either skill set.
• Quote [12:22, Sal]:
  • “You’re not really experiencing the steak by itself or the vegetables by themselves… You’re kind of getting this blend of all three.”

B. Split (Alternate Days) Approach

• [16:21-17:53]
• Tends to suit people who naturally prefer one side (strength or endurance), with the other as a “supporting role.”
• Used in bodybuilding (strength with supplemental cardio) and endurance (mainly running/cycling, occasional strength).
• Requires psychological “gear shifts” between modalities, which can challenge consistency.

C. Alternating Weeks Approach

• [18:16-21:35]
• Underutilized (supported by new research).
• One week dedicated to strength, one week to endurance.
• Pros:
  • Outperformed the other two approaches for improving both endurance and strength attributes in studies (excluding skill-based goals).
  • Helps those “addicted” to one modality break fixation and get the most out of focused blocks.
  • Builds up momentum and mental adaptation for each focus.
• “The best results came from, like, a full week of strength, a full week of endurance, and alternating… I can just be focused on it and know next week I’ll be…” – Sal [19:06]

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3. The Psychology of Fitness Programming

• [22:54-25:09]
• Adam and Sal discuss that the “right” method is often what you are most consistent with.
• “If you don’t like it, it doesn’t matter… then go with one of the other ones.” [07:31]
• Enjoying the nuances of each style (mental “flow” on cardio vs. focus with weights).
• Fitness adherence is more important than “perfect programs.”

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4. Real-World Fitness: The Swiss Army Knife Approach

• [28:27-29:41]
• The healthiest, happiest gym-goers aren’t fixated; they “love fitness” overall—using different modalities as needed for their goals.
• Simplicity and minimalism (doing a few big movements very well) matters more for general population than debating “optimal” nuances.
  • “80+ percent of the population… will struggle most of their life being consistent doing anything. If I can just get those people to focus on a handful of the best movements… they are going to be pretty strong and fit.” – Adam [30:02]

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5. Live Caller Q&As - Highlights

A. Jasmine (Colorado): Postpartum Programming

[67:18–79:03]

• Active mom (Jiujitsu, climbing) wants to know: How do I safely return to training after childbirth?
• Advice:
  • Treat postpartum as “starting from zero”—muscle recruitment patterns, hormones, and priorities have all changed.
  • MAPS Starter is the ideal program to rebuild foundational movement before progressing to more advanced training.
  • “The challenge is going to be you submitting to the whole process. That’s going to be the challenge.” – Sal [71:16]
  • For skill sports like jiu jitsu: Flow, don’t compete; keep injury risk low for at least 1 year.
  • Reframe progress: Sometimes it’s not about performance, but increased energy, reduced anxiety, or avoiding injury.

B. Alex (Washington): Sustainable Fat Loss and Program Shifts

[80:54–90:13]

• Tracking calories, making solid nutrition progress after a surprise DEXA scan result and bringing up protein intake; concerned about rebounding after past yo-yo dieting.
• Advice:
  • Bump up fats a bit for hormonal health (don’t go below 70g daily).
  • Move towards “intuitive tracking”—hit protein, eat only whole foods, walk more, and adjust based on hunger.
  • Switch from Push/Pull/Legs to MAPS Anabolic three days a week for superior results and simplicity.
  • “Stop tracking everything…just do that. You’re gonna get the results and you’re gonna do it in a way that’s sustainable.” – Sal [87:42]

C. Brock (Utah): Night Shift Home-Training

[92:05–100:31]

• Lost 60 lbs, wants to maintain progress on night shifts with limited equipment and maintain focus on performance rather than aesthetics.
• Advice:
  • Use MAPS 15 symmetry (dumbbells, bands) and focus on a “little every day is better than a lot, sometimes.”
  • Pair days when you feel great (good sleep) for more volume, otherwise stick with minimum effective dose.

D. Caitlin (New York): Performance VS Aesthetics Dilemma

[100:31–108:44]

• 42, lifts and runs frequently, wants performance (faster 5K/run and stronger compound lifts) but also wants to look leaner and “like she does all this work.”
• Hosts’ response:
  • “You’re doing everything that is at odds with the aesthetic goal. Cardio/running this much is not how you build the visual result you want.” – Adam [102:55]
  • You must pick: focus on aesthetics (drop running, eat more, build muscle, then cut) OR go for slow “everything improves” (alternate blocks/weeks of strength and endurance).
  • Women perform (athletically) best at ~23-26% body fat, but that may not match “lean enough” image desires.
  • “The only way to do all that is if you pick one or two and focus, then pick the next one.” – Sal [102:42]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Consistency:
  • “If you don’t like it, it doesn’t matter… then it’s like, go with the other one.” – Adam [07:31]
• On the Hybrid/Blended Approach:
  • “You’re not really experiencing the steak by itself… you’re kind of getting this blend.” – Sal [12:27]
• On Progress Postpartum:
  • “It’s going to take you to feel like your old self… about two years.” – Sal [70:22]
• On Sustainable Fat Loss:
  • “The secret is getting to your goal with the least amount of control… because that’s what causes the rebound.” – Sal [91:49]
• On Aesthetics vs. Performance:
  • “Your body is adapted… conflicting goals to everything you’re doing to it. That’s why [aesthetically] it’s not responding.” – Adam [102:55]
• Real talk:
  • “Most clients come with an aesthetic goal…if you want something else, cool, but for changing the look, there’s an objectively better way.” – Adam [16:17]

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Segment Timestamps

• Intro/Theme Overview: [02:22–05:22]
• Three Approaches, Research, Psychology: [05:22–21:35]
• Hosts’ Personal Programming and Reflection: [21:35–29:41]
• Q&A: Jasmine – Postpartum Training: [67:18–79:03]
• Q&A: Alex – Fat Loss Journey: [80:54–90:13]
• Q&A: Brock – Night Shift Strategies: [92:05–100:31]
• Q&A: Caitlin – Performance vs. Aesthetic Goals: [100:31–108:44]

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Tone & Language

• Candid, deeply experienced, and direct – the hosts often poke fun at fitness industry myths.
• Supportive but tough-love approach to callers; honest about expectations and real-world timelines.
• Science-based, practical advice with a strong emphasis on lifestyle and mental wellbeing.

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Summary

This episode unpacks the classic “I want it all” challenge in fitness: strength, muscle, and endurance gains don’t always play well together. The hosts lay out research-backed training structures, stress the importance of adherence and enjoyment, and coach listeners in tailoring their training (and expectations) to their real priorities. Live callers get actionable strategies for postpartum recovery, sustainable fat loss, balancing shift work, and reconciling performed vs. aesthetic aspirations, all delivered with Mind Pump’s characteristic blend of humor, hard truth, and compassion.

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Find the hosts & more:
Instagram: @mindpumpmedia
Web: mindpumppodcast.com

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For detailed program recommendations and episode resources, see the Mind Pump Podcast show notes and MAPS Fitness Products at mapsfitnessproducts.com

Transcript

[Caitlin]

Or lost.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Caitlin]

Hi there.

[Narrator/Announcer]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding.

[Sal Destefano]

Let me get my phone out.

[Caitlin]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[Adam Schaefer]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge.

[Sal Destefano]

So the network out here is huge.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Caitlin]

Actually, can you point us in the

[Narrator/Announcer]

direction of a T Mobile store?

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Justin Andrews]

want to pump your body and expand

[Sal Destefano]

your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pop. Mind Pop. With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer

[Justin Andrews]

and Justin Andrews, you just found the

[Sal Destefano]

most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the world. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had callers call in and we Got to coach them live on air. We helped them with their health and fitness. It's a good time. By the way, this is after the intro. Today's intro was 61 minutes long. This is where we talk about fat loss, muscle gain, exercise, diet, current events, family life. That's always fun. After that, we got to the callers. By the way, if you want to be a caller on one of these episodes, send your question to mplivecaller.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Huel. They make a RTD ready to drink meal replacement shake. It's plant based and it's delicious. It's the best tasting plant based meal replacement we've ever had. High in protein, it's got some carbs in there, some fiber. Use it as a meal. Use it as a post workout meal. In fact, that's how Adam has been using it. Go check them out. Get yourself a discount. Go to huel.com, that's h u e-l.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump and you can get 15% off. This episode is also brought to you by Zebiotics. This is a pre alcohol drink. It's actually a genetically modified probiotic that's been designed to break down acetaldehyde. What is that? It's one of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. When it gets broken down in the gut by the bacteria in zbiotics, you don't absorb it in your bloodstream and then you don't get all those negative effects from acetaldehyde. The inflammation, the headaches, the feeling crummy. So drink zebiotics then go drink some alcohol and watch. Watch what happens. You feel much better. Go to zbiotics.com, that's zbiotics.com mindpump2. 6. Use the code mindpump26. Get 15% off your purchases. Also, new program maps great8. One lift a day, eight day split. Get really strong on the best eight exercises, the only eight exercises you ever need to do. And because it's a launch, it's 50% off. Go to mapsgreat8.com so that's mapsgreat8.com, use the code launch. Get it for 50% off. And we'll also throw in the Great 8 Nutrition Guide Guide. All right, here comes the show.

[Adam Schaefer]

T shirt time.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's T shirt time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Ah, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Justin Andrews]

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[Sal Destefano]

All right, real quick.

[Caller/Guest]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

Building strength and muscle and getting endurance and stamina. They compete. What does that mean? The more you focus on one, the more, the less you get of the other one. But what if you want both? What if you want endurance, stamina, muscle and strength? How should you approach your training? Well, there's three ways you can approach your training. We're going to break down all three of them, talk about the value of each and why each one might be beneficial for you or not. Let's go.

[Caller/Guest]

Which one wins this?

[Adam Schaefer]

I know that, I know we'll get to it that you're experimenting with this right now, but was, was this a recent study that they did this when they compared all three of these?

[Sal Destefano]

There's actually more studies on this. So I've looked up recently, I looked up studies that compared these and what they find is results are either similar or a little better for certain versions, but it depends on what you're looking for. If you just want the physical attributes, then there's better options. If you want the physical attributes to apply to a particular skill, then there's other options that are better. In other words, like if you want to get better at a particular skill, like cycling, running, or playing a sport, there's a better way to approach it. If you want, you know, if you, like, enjoy a workout a particular way, there's value in other ones. And then if you just want to do it because you don't really care about the skill acquisition as much as you like the physical attributes, overall endurance, overall strength, then there seems to be a better option. And then of course, our trainer minds. This is the part that I'm looking forward to, is where we can go in and kind of speculate on the kind of person that would enjoy each one of these versions because ultimately that's what matters, right? It's is your consistency over time.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I think that's the questions that I have for you as we, after we get through these is. And it's early right now, I know for you, but it'll be interesting to see if you find that the approach that you're doing, which is obviously research, shows that the way you're going about it is the best way for what you're trying to accomplish. But then to back to your point about the trainer brain, if you know, if you find it, it's actually more difficult to be consistent with it.

[Sal Destefano]

If you don't like it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Then it's like, then, then go with the other one of the other.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. So there's three main ways to do this. Now this is just overgeneralizing because the, the workout programming is much more specific than this. Right. There's also what happens in the workout that's very important. But generally speaking, there's three main ways you can approach this, this problem. One is you train both strength and endurance in the same workout. The second option is you do different workouts. So Monday may be strength and then Tuesday may be endurance and so on. So alternating in the same week. And then there's a third option which is probably the least known, maybe even the least popular, where it's one week focused on strength, one week focused on endurance. So you, it's like totally broken up. And so those are the three main ways. And so let's break down each of them and kind of talk about, you know, what their value may be and who they may work for. So I guess with the first one, the same workout in this three. To me, when I think of this, this reminds me of like CrossFit style training or what people would label as conditioning or something like that.

[Caller/Guest]

I think it's the most,

[Sal Destefano]

the most

[Caller/Guest]

popular I've seen it the most with like hybrid athletes or like people that are like trying to gain and acquire both these attributes. I see that they just, they sort of merge them both into the same workout primarily.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can also see where this, this is probably be interesting to see if we could compare all these. The, the easiest to be consistent with because you're, you're, you're already there. And so let's say you're, you're inconsistent with the days on which you show up to the gym. And so if you have thought this thought process of, oh, I'm going to have these endurance days, I'm gonna have these training trays, it's like this. And it's like, oh, what happens when I miss one or the other versus whether I make three days this week or Five days this week. Every session looks like a blend of the two of them.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I bet there's a big argument for. Even though this is probably of the three, it's the least successful way to go about this. It may be one of the more consistent or successful.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I mean, I see your point. I can see how that would work. Especially if you're somebody that really hates one and likes the other one. You might end up missing the ones he hate more often. Right. Although for me it's a little different, which we'll get to. So I can see that. I can also see, like, if you're in a sport that requires both at the same time, you're going to need to practice that skill. In other words, if, let's say you compete in CrossFit. Okay. Part of your CrossFit training is going to be good, is going to be getting good. It's not just to be strong in endurance. It's going to be getting good at competing in the event. And the event itself oftentimes combines everything in one.

[Caller/Guest]

Well, I think this too is part of. I see this a lot like it. They get attracted to the event style and then the event becomes the training.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Caller/Guest]

So there's no separation of that. There's no improvement on each aspect of it. It's just like you're so focused on the enjoyment and the experience of the event that you bring that in the workout and then it doesn't really. You can't really decide what's working.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not only that, that you're. That that type of person also is only getting in shape when they're signed up for the event. It reminds me of like my clients that were like the marathon. The marathon runners. Right. Like, you know, hey, I need to get in shape, so I signed up for a marathon. It's like, it's like that. That is all. Was all they needed to have this end goal. Then that would get them back into working out for that period of time. And then what would inevitably happen. Marathon would happen. And then afterwards they would fall off the wagon. And then that. That is just repeat the cycle.

[Sal Destefano]

In my experience too, there's another kind of person that would probably like this and that's the person that views or enjoys the. They like the sweat. Yeah. They like the conditioning part of the workout itself. Like for them, a workout is that these kind of people had a tough time. In my experience, I can think of a person has a tough time with just strength training. Yeah. Like, this is boring.

[Caller/Guest]

Too bored.

[Sal Destefano]

I got a rest. I You know, and now when I used to train people, I'd force them to do it because I'm training you so I can make it enjoyable by hanging out with you. But there's a lot of people where, you know, this is what they. This is why they work out. They like the workout part of it, the part that makes them feel like they're struggling and having a tough time, and so blending it together to them is what they enjoy doing. Now, this is far less specific, but again, if this is how you enjoy training, and especially if you're competing in a way that combines all this, there's going to be a component of needing to combine it all, because that's what your competition is going to ask.

[Caller/Guest]

Well, I just. I was thinking of the person that classifies themselves as, I'm in shape. Like this in shape. People, like, really gravitate towards this merger of, like, strength training and endurance. Like, combined totally.

[Sal Destefano]

Now, one of the detriments of this is the. You're not separating.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're not reaping the max benefits of either.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And not only that, but you're not separating the mental aspect of each. What I mean by that is there's a mental approach and understanding that goes with strength training, and it's a very different one than there is for conditioning or endurance. It's a very different approach. And sometimes it's hard for people to. Or should I say it's better to separate them so they can understand what strength training should feel like, because that's all I'm doing. And then they understand what stamina, endurance training feel like, because that's all I'm doing. When you kind of blend it all together, it's like eating a dish with three different courses on it, and you put them all on one fork and eat it. Like, you're not really experiencing the steak by itself or the vegetables by themselves or the starch by themselves. You're kind of getting this blend of all three, which is okay, but you don't really ever develop the real understanding of just the steak or just the vegetables or just the starch.

[Adam Schaefer]

So this is 100% who I was for the first, like, 10 years of lifting for me. And I wrestle a lot with, like, what version of me.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, I see.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do I. Do I prefer or to, like. Like, better, you know, and, you know, funny, we had. We had a challenge. I'm sure it'll go up on social media soon here, where the staff try to get us to balance on a V bar, and we all failed. And we All. Well, we all failed. And I. And just like Justin, I got. I got really frustrated, and why. I got really frustrated because that was the type of stuff I. I used to do. I used to incorporate a lot of that into my workouts, you know what I'm saying? And not for any other reason that say I could do it and stuff like that.

[Sal Destefano]

That's cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

And, yeah, it was cool. It was fun. I trained a lot like this. We're super setting and circuits. And then the other days doing plyos. I mean, I just, again, remember I talked about how, you know, I took a lot of pride and no workout ever looked the same, and I was really overall fit, but I definitely wasn't the strongest I'd ever been. It wasn't the most aesthetic I'd ever been, but I was overall fit. And so. And I. And I think back to the. All those attributes that I had, and there's some of them that I. I miss. And I want to get back. You know what I'm saying? I think especially when we get. It gets highlighted like that, like, I can't do this, and I should be able to do this. But then I also go, you know, I do like that. I've put on a lot of muscle and I've gotten really strong, and I have a way better aesthetic physique than that kid did training way. Like, I trained way less look better and stronger than that guy who was training his ass off. And ironically, that guy wanted what I have today, but I trained the wrong way to do it, and I had all those other attributes. So I wrestle with that a lot of times, because there are some benefits to training, to training this way.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I think the most important thing to communicate, and I think where we come from, because we've trained so many clients, is most clients come to you with a aesthetic goal. They. They want to change.

[Sal Destefano]

They want general health, general fitness. Yes, but they want the aesthetic.

[Adam Schaefer]

But they want to look. Yeah, they want to look better. Of course. They want to feel better. Of course. They want to have some sort of endurance and stamina. Of course that's part of that. But they really are like, I don't like to look the way I look in the way I feel. And. But it's.

[Sal Destefano]

Look up the top.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And. And so when we communicate, we always communicate from that, because that's a. That's 90 of are looking for that. So the people that always grumble when we talk about this, and. And they're like, I love my CrossFit or I love this weight train. I'm not talking to you. You represent the 10 or less that never miss workouts. Love. Training this way was the 25 year old version of me. And I get it. So like train your way if you want to, but if you come to me, if that same person came to me and goes, but man, I really want to devote my delts more and I wish I look like this, there's

[Caller/Guest]

an objectively better way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Better way to go about it.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah. So we just have to highlight that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, that's right.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, the next option is different workouts. So one day would be strength training, one day would be endurance or cardio. Now this, I typically the people that tend to employ something like this either really like strength training or really like endurance. And it just looks different. If you really like strength training, it's typically strength training focused with some cardio thrown in on off days. And these are the aesthetically driven people. They want to get lean, they like sculpting their body. Bodybuilders sometimes pre contest is what their routine looks like. It's like I lift and then I do a little cardio and sometimes and oftentimes they're on different days. And then you have endurance athletes. I trained a lot of clients like this where they were either triathletes or marathon runners. Most of the workouts during the week were endurance for them. And then there were a day or two where it was just strength training. And so this is, this is a good approach. Now you can have a balanced approach as well. But I think this approach is good for people who are focused more on one versus the other because then it's just which one I devote more time to. And the other one plays more of a supporting role than, you know, playing the main actor in this particular movie. And again it's like, now you can mix it all up, but again, which one do you want more of? I think this allows.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, the only downside, I think is you get kind of in rhythms and to shift your intention going from one specific thing to the next, which we'll get into the other version. But I think that that might be one thing to point out is, is like each workout itself, you have to kind of gear yourself psychologically and kind of prep yourself a little differently.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, after we share the third one and then Sal goes in to share his story, I'm going to share with you how I've been doing things, which is closer to this, but it's a modified version of that. And so I'm really interested to get to the third one, share what you're doing and how you're going about it. And then I'll tell you what I've been doing now for several weeks now. And it's kind of a modified version of this. And so we'll get to that.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so then you have this third version which is far less known and less popular. But this occurred to me after reading a study where they compared different ways of training for endurance and strength. And one of the ways that they trained these athletes, volume is equated for, by the way, was one week strength, one week endurance. It actually outperformed for both endurance and strength, the physical attributes or the physical expressions of both. What I mean by that is if you have a specific skill that you want to apply this to, probably not a good way to train. Because if I'm getting good at running or trying to be good at swimming, I need to practice that often. I don't just need endurance. You can have tons of endurance, but if your skill is off, then endurance can not going to apply very well because you're not efficient with your movement. But if you just want general endurance and strength, what the study showed was one week focus on one, one week focus on the other. And it seems to be a better approach. Now here's why I'm doing this. And I could see where this would apply to a lot of people who struggle with falling in love with one of these attributes. Like, I like training for endurance and stamina. I could care less. It's boring. I'm not getting a pump, I'm not getting jacked. I'd much rather be lifting weights. Okay. But if I give myself a full week of this is all I'm focusing on, next week I'll get back to my lifting. So I'll look forward to that. But I'm gonna wait till next week. What it allows me to do is have a full week of getting into it. There's momentum behind it, momentum of really trying to really appreciate what I'm getting from it, really appreciate the mental effects, the physical effects, see the endurance build up towards the end of the week and know that I'm not going to lose more muscle doing it this way. It would be the same things if I did it alternating days. It's just I'm in it. And this reminds me of the way we phase our strength training programs. You can do a day of low reps, a day of high reps, a day of moderate reps in the same week. But the reason why we Typically have a block of each is because each one of those is a different mental approach, like lifting under 5 reps. Different approach than lifting at 12 reps. And if you stay in it for three weeks, you get good at it. You get good at the mental part of what this should feel like. So that's why I'm doing it this way. It's really just that I know if I just have a week of endurance, I can just be focused on it and know next week I'll be. Learns it better and I'm just going to start to try to enjoy it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I should say there's another way to frame that or say that I think, and I think you can identify with this too is I also see huge benefits for somebody who admits that they have an addiction to either one of those.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So because it forces you to break up with that every week.

[Sal Destefano]

That's what I'm doing. Doing.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's like and. And actually commit to the opposite for at least a little while.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Before you can go back. And so what a great way.

[Sal Destefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

And use either side. Right. So let's say you're the person who's just like always got to run marathons and you always run and those exist. And there's a lot of.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's a lot of those people and they just struggle with the weight training. This idea of like, you get a week of that, but then you got to go over to this side and you got to let go of that. And so I think for that person and then to what you've been sharing your journey of like knowing that you have this pool to it, it's like that forces you to break up with that every single week. And so I think there's a lot of value totally to that. That for that person.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally 100.

[Adam Schaefer]

I could see that.

[Sal Destefano]

So what were you doing?

[Adam Schaefer]

So. So I'm doing something kind of like it's. It's not always, but sometimes in different workouts. I. I care mostly about the way I look, body fat percentage more the aesthetic.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've always talked about that. But over, you know, recently I've like, hey, I'm getting. I'm going to be 45 this year. I. I want to have some endurance and stamina too. And so this has become a priority of me. And so. And also if for the audience that hasn't been caught up to. It's like we've talked about you and I a lot off air speculating on like, you know, why do I get injured a lot when I get back in the, in the, the rhythm of things and it's, it's a blessing and a curse. Right. I mean, I'm sure this pisses everybody off when I say, like, how I can put 20 pounds on in a month sounds awesome, but also ends up leading to a lot of nagging of

[Sal Destefano]

muscle, by the way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. Of issue. Right. And so, and I'm here again. So what I've been doing is I, I, I'm, I'm lifting weights to, to change body composition is my main focus. But if I train like yesterday, I trained legs pretty, pretty hard and I'm definitely pretty sorted. So now what I'll do is like the next day or two, it'll be cardio. I'll take off weights completely.

[Sal Destefano]

So you're essentially doing this to slow down the, the, the, the process of building strength and muscles, prevent injury.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I love that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And I'm also, the way I'm also framing it in my head is like, oh, this is facilitating recovery too.

[Sal Destefano]

Right? Moving, moving blood flow, Mental part is so big.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So that's a part of me is just like, so I'm, I'm reducing the, the amount of lifting the weights. I'm trying to increase some of this endurance training where I'm hour on the elliptical or you walking or something like that. Sometimes I do little moderate sprints, get to elevate the heart rate a little bit so I can so push that. But it, I, it's, it's still geared around the strength training, but there's no, like, it's not like one day on, one day off when it's not like that. It's like I might get two days of lifting in a row, but then all of a sudden I notice that like, oh, I'm a little stiff, I'm a little tight. Okay, now I'm gonna, I'm gonna do cardio. And then, and then I might do, one day, I might get up and be like, well, I'm still kind of feeling a little sore. When I work out, I'm gonna do another day. And, and so there's been times where I've done three days in a row of cardio. And then there's been times when I've done two or three days of strength training and I'm just kind of feeling how my body feels. And when I feel like I've been pushing the weights and my body's starting to talk to me a little bit, it's like okay, switch over.

[Sal Destefano]

I go the cardio way.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so it's kind of looked like

[Sal Destefano]

that the mental part is so important. Like, I'll just tell you guys the. Just how hard it was for me today. So today's day one of cardio week, right? Not supposed to lift weights. Boy, did I. I did okay. I kind of failed. You know what I did what you do, bro. I did. I had to do three sets. I had to do a couple sets. No, you did it. I did. I had to do a couple sets of weight. I literally did three sets. That's it. And then I went and got on the treadmill. And now here's the deal. Here's the other side of the mental part, which, by the way, I did that three set. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm so. It's so addict. It's wonderfully. What's the word? The awareness around it is really painful. It's like, man, is this. Is it this bad?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But getting on cardio, I don't like, you know, cardio for the sake of the cardio. But I do like the fact that I can get into a zone and listen to a book or think or write.

[Caller/Guest]

There's a meditative aspect to it, for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

You can't do that with weights. I gotta focus on lifting. No.

[Caller/Guest]

Cause you can kind of zone out and you could really just get into the rhythm.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally, totally. Because again, with weights, like, I'm under the bar.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, that's what I like about the cardio.

[Sal Destefano]

That's exactly it.

[Caller/Guest]

You have to lean into that.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. So I put my headphones on, I'm listening to a book, and 10 minutes into it, man, I'm into the book and I'm writing ideas and thinking, like, okay, I could like it for this reason. These are the things that I could like. So in this whole week, that's what I'm gonna do. This whole week, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go through a book and then look forward to next week when I get to go back and lifting. Yeah. Go back and lift.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I'm so curious to see how this goes for you. I'm. I'm playing with the idea right now, especially considering that we just launched grade eight of this. Like, you know, it'd be really cool. And I don't wanna mess with what you're doing or not. I think you should absolutely do what you're doing right now, but afterwards, you'd be such a great person to see. Do grade eight with the cardio. So Literally, you just do one exercise a day, and then the rest is,

[Sal Destefano]

you know, my fear is around. This is gonna be a great commercial for grade eight. You know, my fear is around grade eight. It will get me. And let me explain before everybody goes, oh, shut up. I'll get really strong.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And I start to get hurt once I go past a certain.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that's why I think pairing it with cardio right afterwards will kind of tamper that. Maybe because you're right. Because I think if you just ate and did one exercise and got really

[Sal Destefano]

strong, bro, I would, you would just give.

[Caller/Guest]

Discard the fact that if you just hyper focus on one thing that moves the needle a lot, like how far you get.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Caller/Guest]

You know, and it's just like, it's such like a foreign concept. Like, we need to overwhelm the body with all these things and, you know, get into this crazy, like, gauntlet workout.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I, the reason why I love so much the grade eight is because it, When I think about what my last, like, I don't know how many years now has looked like, it's looked a lot like that. There's a lot of day, I mean, I, I, Yesterday when I trained legs, you know, quote unquote hard, it was squats for five sets. Yeah, that was the hard part. Then I messed around on the leg extensions. Really? Just to kind of mock all the people that were talking. I literally have a day.

[Caller/Guest]

I just rage.

[Adam Schaefer]

I had done April, I had done leg extensions in so long. I'm not even that strong right now, dude. I'm like, I'm, I, I only squatted two. 250. Okay. I'm doing 250 for reps and five sets. Five. I worked up to five sets.

[Sal Destefano]

You lifted the stack.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then I go over to leg extensions, stack the whole thing for 12 to 15 reps. And even after that, I did squats, dude. And I'm just like, the sissy. Squats were hard.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what I'm saying? And of course I, I posted about it because I know that that whole thing, that was the best way to use the ladies.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is the best way to use the leg stitching machine and all. And all the, hey, all the, all the smart trainers breaking down the biomechanics like you guys, everybody who argued that missed the point. I said take. We take two. Two groups. One group for two years is only allowed to do one exercise for their leg development, leg extensions. Then go ahead and pick eight other leg exercises. Hack squats, Front squats, Bulgarian split squats, walking lunges, step ups. I mean, the list goes.

[Sal Destefano]

Crushes would destroy.

[Adam Schaefer]

The list goes on. And those two groups, okay, they can only do those one exercises for four or five sets.

[Sal Destefano]

Whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Pick your sets. I don't care. And see who's got better quads in two years.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, come on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everybody knows that's. That's the point of it. When we were ranking them is. Is thinking of that. Nobody. And then, you know, you just. You. The real truth is, everybody. Should I say, of course I'm doing them because it's easy. Yeah, stop.

[Sal Destefano]

I like to sit down. Yeah, I. I know. You know, it's the real thing, too, is when it comes to fitness, we've said this before. When you really start to have fun with it and enjoy it, like, perfect routines are great. Okay? We write programs, and I love creating perfect programs. But if you can enjoy fitness, if you really start to play with it and enjoy it, that's it. You got it. Forever. You'll love it. If you generally love fitness. And I used to have members like this in my gym. Will just. I'm not talking about the bodybuilders or the freaks. I'm talking about. People just love fitness. They were always the healthiest. Why? Because they just loved fitness. And they could do all kinds of different things. They would lift weights, they would do this, they would do that.

[Caller/Guest]

It would go on off. It's just all.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it. And then you have this, like, Swiss army knife where you could pull out a tool on the knife for whatever you need. Oh, I need a little more strength. Boom. Strength training. I need a little stamina.

[Adam Schaefer]

Boom.

[Sal Destefano]

Mobility. I need a little mobility. I need a little this and a little that. I need something for more recuperative. Now you. Now you're using fitness in a way that values you.

[Adam Schaefer]

I always come from a place of, like, the very minimalist attitude, because in our experience, even at the most successful we ever were. Right. So a decade after being coaches and when we probably all consider ourselves finally good coaches. Right. Took a decade or whatever.

[Sal Destefano]

Ten years.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And so we're finally good coaches. Even at that peak, Coach Adam, you still are only getting 30 to 40% of these people lifetime success, which is a high percentage. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like. It's like baseball.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

You're batting.300.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. You're a hall of Famer. You know what I'm saying? If 70% of your people fail.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You're doing good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you're doing good. And that's and so, so my thought, when I, when I communicate exercise and fitness, I always go for like, man, if I could just get people to do a couple of these movements. And that is the argument I always have. When we get into these debates with other trainers that are 25 years old and done all the certifications and understand anatomy so well and biomechanics, it's just like, yeah, but what you need to understand is that 80 plus percent of the population are going to struggle most of their life being consistent doing anything. And so if I can just get those people to focus on maybe a handful of the best movements and learn to like them, learn to do them, practice them as a skill, figure out that, figure them out, and then they just approach those, they are going to be pretty strong and fit. But if I argue and debate these things about emg, light up on the leg extension versus this and confuse the fuck out of these people. And the reason why I'm so passionate about it, because I was a young 20 year old reading all that stuff and I wasted a lot of time, a lot of clients, time, clients and my own time doing this when I would have been way better served getting good at my squats, getting good at my deadlifts, getting good at my ball, getting good at these movements that really move the needle. I would have been way better served.

[Sal Destefano]

Way better.

[Adam Schaefer]

Way better.

[Sal Destefano]

Speaking of controversial posts, the one where you and I, Adam were talking about, you asked me, yes, dude, if you could.

[Adam Schaefer]

I lost, by the way.

[Sal Destefano]

I know I lost. Okay, so here's what the post was. The post was, Adam asked me if you could change or implement one thing in commercial gyms, what would it be? And I said, address code. And in the controversy in the comments is silly about this. Look, everybody, I think people need to be reasonable. I've been in gyms since the early 90s, okay, as a kid, all the way growing up. It's gotten crazy, you guys. It's gotten really wild. It's gotten crazy everywhere. First of all, I remember going to the beach. You'd never see thong bikinis. Now you go to the beach, everybody's wearing. So this is just the trend of how people are. But gyms, this is why I think now's the time. I think there's enough people where, if you actually implemented a reasonable gym, you know, dress code, not like you gotta wear a burqa in sweats, okay, everybody calm down. But you know, just, you just, you're not gonna wear, you can't be, you know, showing your whole torso or something. Like that, like, I think you would get more members. Well, here's enough people that are like, enough moms and dads and regular people who want to get fit, who are like, yeah, I'd love to go to a gym where people aren't literally half naked, you know, being distracting or trying to get looked at, like, and that's the truth, by the way. If you go to the gym half naked, I don't care how it's so comfortable. Shut up. You want people look at you. That's the truth. And I think a gym dress code,

[Caller/Guest]

everybody's already experienced this, right? Like, you go, it's PE class. Like, you have to have, like, a specific shirt and shorts. And it's just like, it was simple, it was effective. Everybody was in there for a purpose. But I mean, yeah, I mean, again, it's not silly. So, yeah, go ahead.

[Sal Destefano]

I want to hear your argument.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I, obviously, I took the other side of this argument and I can argue your side and I, and I. Let me first argue the way I actually think you believe, because you obviously, if you, you know, you well enough, you know that you lean way more towards, I mean, more now conservative. But you were still libertarian about this. So I think you're, you're not saying we need legislation for, no, I don't want a law. Whereas, yeah. Where it's like, it's all, no, no,

[Sal Destefano]

I don't want laws. Yeah, this is a private, like a consensus.

[Caller/Guest]

Like, everybody agrees. Like, here's what private Jew.

[Adam Schaefer]

Even then, I don't, I don't. I don't think you would, you would want that all gyms have to do this. I think what you would like to see is like a gym step forward and be like, this is going to be how it is. And I don't disagree with that because I think that then the market will dictate who's more. Right, exactly. Because I, I think there will be. And I think we kind of see this with Planet Fitness is that Planet Fitness regulates what you can. They're. They're no stringers. You're not.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. So. And that's their whole pitch is, you know, we're the gym for everybody now. I think they took the extreme, and that's an example. Got rid of exercises to get rid and competitive. So they, I think they, they went to an extreme version of that. But that, that's kind of their, their philosophy. So. And I think you could go the Other extreme, I think you could be like, hey, we encourage shirtless people. And, and there'll be a bunch of people that go to that one. So I really think that's the answer is, you know, allow the gym to do that and it'll attract the people that like that. It's just interesting to me because I don't like the. So I would say Bradley Martin's gym is the other extreme.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I'm not a fan of that.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Even though I'm, I'm pro wear. Whatever you want to wear. I'm also like the dudes taking their shirts off and all the cameras, all. Everyone video themselves and influencers.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, I really, I really do think if a commercial gym today had a reasonable dress code, I think they would do better. I think there's a lot of people that are turned away from gyms, I don't know, because they feel uncomfortable. Moms and dads. You know how many the comments of like, moms were like, yeah, it makes me uncomfortable. And dudes were like, yeah, I really. And then people, of course, are hammering the guy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you can't.

[Sal Destefano]

If you can't control yourself.

[Adam Schaefer]

You could argue, you could argue, you could argue that you're right. Based off of the growth of Planet Fitness.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, they're one of the fastest growing chains right now and that, that they're designed to make people feel comfortable. Right. If you're really overweight and you don't want to see a girl in a tube top and booty shorts and you don't want to see a guy in a stringer and stuff like that, like, we're that. So you could argue that it also.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, there's also the purist in me where I really love good, pure fitness culture and good fitness. Gym culture is about fitness. It's about camaraderie, it's about support. And yeah, you can have that with the half naked bodies also. But I think that gym culture, when you look at the toxic side. I hate using that word because that's such a misused term, but the toxic side of fitness culture is this, like, look at me, it's all about how I look. It's all about looking at each other. It's about checking each other out.

[Caller/Guest]

Heavy on the vanity.

[Sal Destefano]

People will talk about gyms as a meat market. This is where that comes from.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now how do you make peace or reconcile that feeling that you have when you also. Simultaneously. Pumping Iron is one of your favorite movies.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And that gym is. The guys are taking their shirts off. They're in booty shorts and they're.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, that was a different, that was a different time. I mean let's be honest, those gyms were small and it was pros. And so the culture is the culture. I'm talking about the typical gym today. Commercial gym. It's a commercial gym. I'm trying. So if I owned a commercial gym

[Adam Schaefer]

today, I mean that gym, if it could have been a commercial gym though, it would have been. It just couldn't be.

[Sal Destefano]

It was all different back then. It was such an outside of the, you know, the mainstream.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know it's. But maybe that's what it is. That's why I'm trying to get like how do you reconcile that because you've never spoke out of anything about that with that, with that gym. And that gym was okay. And they, they took their shirt, they were barefoot, took shirts off, booty shorts, you know, slapping each other in the ass in the back.

[Sal Destefano]

They were doing all that dog.

[Adam Schaefer]

They did posing in the mirror and you know what I'm saying? And so there's all that. But it's now obviously it's grown to mainstream. These are commercial gyms and now it attracts a lot more people. And so is it maybe more because you see a lot more of it and it's. Yeah, I mean what. Because I think it's the same, it's kind of the same thing, I think

[Sal Destefano]

so I don't like again, I don't think there should be a law, but I think a gym today, that, that was really fitness forward, that was clean, great equipment, great trainers. The trainers make the culture by the way. What I'm saying doesn't make the culture. Okay. It's the trainers and the staff that make the culture. But that had reasonable dress code I think would really serve the people that need this the most. Which is the everyday average person that needs, you know, the 20 something year old fitness fanatic. They don't, they'll go work out, they'll go work out somewhere. But you know the mom that has two kids, the dad that's working, the person who's overweight, like and again, reasonable. You don't need to go wear a uniform. I don't think you should show up at a gym and be required to wear like some crazy uniform. But I do think some reasonable. Look, I have a 16 year old daughter. Like you walk her. Would I want to walk in my 16 year old daughter into some of these gyms? By the way, it's not half naked dudes that I don't Want her around the way some of these people are presenting themselves. And she's 16 years old. I don't know if I like this culture.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's funny that you and I find ourselves in this argument and disagreement here, because you and I also disagree on the spanking thing yet. I don't spank. And I also. My wife and I train training hoodies.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I'm.

[Adam Schaefer]

We are in burkas.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're fully burking out with Dre, because that's. My vibe is to be hoodied out, covered, like, you know, can't tell who I am type of deal. And I'm hiding this thing underneath. Like, that's. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But I also am like.

[Caller/Guest]

I mean, what is, like, the thought process, too, of, like, some people that go in there, It's a signaling of, like, you know, it's a single energy, and it's a. It's a dating thing. And it's like, look at me, like, trying to attract, like, a potential person. And so it's like, yeah, that's an interesting thought. Is like, well, where. Where does that person now, you know, go? Try to signal that well.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, okay, I like this as a. As a pro argument to it, because here's the thing. It's like this and this. I didn't find this out till way later in my. Dating is. One of the things I love about Katrina is that she cares about health and fitness. Like, I do, too. She's not obsessed with it, but she cares enough about it that there is this accountability piece that comes from my wife. Well, where's a better place than to find a woman like that than inside the gym?

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so I could understand this natural inclination to want to signal, you know, and present and be that. And that's the best place to find each other attractive and stuff like that. So I. And to be honest, if luckily I met so here. Funny. Katrina talks about how many times we'd seen each other in the gym. I never noticed her. Why? Because she's hoodied up.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now, I met her outside of that and then realized that she was like that. And I respect. I love that she does that. It's great. But I wouldn't have picked her out inside the gym had she. Had we not met in business.

[Sal Destefano]

It's also like, okay, how would you communicate this to your daughter? And I'm speaking both to men and women. If my daughter wanted to go to the gym, wear a strapless tube top with tiny little shorts, I'M going to sit down with her and be like, honey, why are you dressing this way? You know, you want people to look at you. You want that attention. Let's talk about that for a second.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, okay, that to me, and that's actually.

[Sal Destefano]

It's not about. It's too hot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But I need to be comfortable.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what? But here's the thing though, too. And I would rather that I don't have a daughter, so I can't speak from that conversation. But if I did, I would rather me have the conversation. My daughter. And she chooses, of course, you know, but she has that option if she wanted to. And I like that. I like that. Because she's gonna go to school and they're gonna offer her drugs and sex and all these other things. And I hope that as a father, I teach her these things.

[Brock]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm not saying that Jim raises my daughter. My point with. What I'm saying is the conversation I would have with her is also an honest conversation you have with yourself. When you go to the gym and you are almost naked working out. It's not because it makes you comfortable. It's not all the lies. Shut up.

[Adam Schaefer]

See, that's the dad in you want people to.

[Sal Destefano]

You want people to look at you.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's the dad in you wants to come out and you want to father all these girls.

[Sal Destefano]

Listen, I don't wanna father anybody. It's just an honest conversation because there were people commenting. Listen, there were. There were people commenting underneath. Well, if you can't control yourself, it has nothing to do with me. I don't care. Yeah, but I'm talking about. The question was if, for commercial. If I owned a commercial gym today, I think this is one of the things I would implement. And I think it would be good for business. I think it would be good for the culture. I'm not going to force you dress however you want me walking my private. You walk in my house that way, I'm going to kick you out. So I'll do the same thing in my gym. And so it can. It's just. It's an honest conversation.

[Caller/Guest]

Interesting experiment. I think that it would do well and then the other ones would do well for, like the more dating kind of totally environment. I think that, you know, there's room for that. It's a big industry. Like, there's plenty of options. Like, I don't think that there. There should be like. I think it'd be fine to just define it. Here's what, here's what our you know, code of ethics are. And this is what our gym's culture is about.

[Sal Destefano]

From a business perspective. Sign up for it or not. Also from a business perspective. You'll love this, Adam.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You want to make a gym that actually is profitable, does well, has a big impact. Who are you going to cater to? The young kids who are coming in trying to hit on each other half naked or the middle aged people who like, no, I'm here. It's a sliver who's got more money to spend?

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like that's so, I mean to me that's when I think of what you're describing and I, I, I don't go enough big commercial gyms lately to, to, to even have much of a dog in this fight because I have, I haven't experienced what you're saying. Like, I think that when I go to like say a club one or club sport, like it ain't like that.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, that's, that's rich old people too expensive.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, right. And, and when I go to like, I don't know, I'd say when I go to like American Barbell or Golds, I, I think there's a healthy balance of it. I don't think it's extreme or, or crazy. I have seen extreme though. I've been to like those ones in LA or Vegas. Yeah, I've been to Las Vegas and I've seen, and I've seen Bradley Martin's job.

[Sal Destefano]

I went there once with my wife and because her family's in Vegas and we went there to work out with her brother and her sister in law.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's, I think it's just Vegas culture too.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean that's where all the strippers work out. So I mean, and they are advertising.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean it is business. That's true. You know, I'm so, so I can't hate on that. It's like that's what they do for a living and it's like best way to get customers to come pay me at my job is to see my body when I work out. And so I understand. But I, so I, like, I'm not, but I'm not the biggest fan. I wouldn't again want my daughter growing up in that, in that and stuff like that. But I also would teach her that. And I feel like the thing that I don't like, I think were I agree with you or probably what we have in common is that that same guy or girl who dresses like that and gets attention, that maybe they don't is like inappropriate or they don't like too much. It's like, well, you're bringing that on by doing that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And so I also play a role too.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everybody that's so that, that's like.

[Sal Destefano]

It doesn't excuse the dirt bag.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no, that's not what I'm saying about that.

[Sal Destefano]

But I'm saying like, you, you, if you put yourself out there, that's what

[Adam Schaefer]

I would have this whole uniform conversation I had with my. I have with my daughter if I had a daughter. That's right. Saying, hey, if you do this, you know that there's dirt bag guys out there.

[Sal Destefano]

And then what they're seeing, they're going

[Adam Schaefer]

to be gawking at you. They might be taking videos of you. They're probably going to approach you when you're trying to work out. So understand that. And what you're.

[Sal Destefano]

They're just looking for an opportunity.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so that's just reality and that. And that's so. It's like, if you're going to do that, you decline. Complain about that is another thing. It's just like, there's a real easy solve to this.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's not like somebody commented something hilarious underneath because somebody wrote, well, you're just talking about the women. And then this guy's like, you know what? If I went to the gym wearing what you guys were wearing, you guys would kick me out. Hello. Fast. Like, it's true. The dude walked in there with tiny ass, little shorts, my wife beater with his junk hanging out. He made my wife beater. Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

I said, what about nipple type wife beaters? I said, ask me. Asking for a friend. You know, I have no moose knuckles.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, I haven't worked out that in a while.

[Adam Schaefer]

Really?

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Good for you.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, and it's because my, my, well, it promotes that. No, my intern. My security is a little bit better. It's an insecurity thing. Right. All of it is. It's like you want to show your muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know that so. Well, because that was me, dog. I was. I did that for years. For years. I wore three T shirts. Wife beater, regular T shirt, another T

[Sal Destefano]

shirt makes you bigger.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. And then I. And then I get aired up in the gym. Layer after layer comes up by the time. Yeah, yeah, I know. You know, that's a thing now. I know the pump cover is a thing.

[Sal Destefano]

That's what they call it. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's a term for it.

[Sal Destefano]

It's the top shirt.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. There's A term.

[Sal Destefano]

There's a term for something we've been

[Adam Schaefer]

doing for 25 years when we work out and they call it a pump cover and stuff like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. Anyway, I was going to ask you, Adam, you've been having the. The Huel meal replacement a lot, like crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Almost daily. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm.

[Sal Destefano]

This is the first time I've seen you consume anything that's a meal replacement. That's entirely like. There's no. It's all plant based.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And you always. And you're like a. Like a. You know, I'd say you have like the palate of a child. It doesn't taste super good. You won't have it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, dude, I had. They have a. I mean, the strawberry banana flavor is bomb. They have a chocolate peanut butter flavor. That's bomb.

[Sal Destefano]

That's what I like.

[Adam Schaefer]

They've got it. They've got a coffee one. Have you had the coffee one yet?

[Caller/Guest]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, the coffee one yet. We only had a couple in there and I had them and I'm like, man, where they all at? Because we've only had. I haven't seen more of that. We have more of the other ones. And that's my favorite one that I've had. I haven't seen it come back in our refrigerator in a while. So those are. What I like is this. And we've talked about this before. I. If I do a certain amount of whey or dairy in my diet, I'm fine. But when I'm really trying to push and hit my protein intake, it's almost always in the diet in order to kind of get there. And I just digest that way better.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so if I just break it up and so I make sure that one of my sources is coming from that instead of like two sources of whey or dairy.

[Sal Destefano]

It's really easy to digest.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Really easy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very. And so I like it post workout. Post workout.

[Sal Destefano]

Because it's got carbs too.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's already loaded. It's good. Yeah. It's a meal replacement. I can. I can get it right afterwards. And so, yeah, I've, you know, kind of. Kind of enjoyed it, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I did. I did not see that.

[Sal Destefano]

I've seen like, I've never seen you consume.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

That consistent of shakes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Ever.

[Adam Schaefer]

I also am such a. The ready to drink. I Even. Even in my.

[Sal Destefano]

You're like adding powdered water.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I know. The shaker cup thing is just. I mean, I did it. I did it for a very Long time. So I absolutely was the shaker cup guy. You know, I'm the one that came up that showed you guys the tip on that. Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Tell everybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude, that is if you are a shaker cup person. The worst part about shaker cups is the nasty protein smell.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, God. When it. Oh, you have to throw away there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. It's disgusting. Can't watch.

[Sal Destefano]

You can't.

[Adam Schaefer]

You can't.

[Caller/Guest]

In your car, in the sun.

[Adam Schaefer]

You can't screw it in the garbage. There's hack.

[Sal Destefano]

You'll never get it out.

[Adam Schaefer]

The minute that you finish that, you literally. And you don't have to do a good job of rinsing. You literally pour it out, rinse it real, throw it, and you throw a paper towel inside it and close it.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Throw it in your gym bag.

[Sal Destefano]

Absorbs everything.

[Adam Schaefer]

Absorbs everything. And it'll keep it from ever getting stinky. That was. I forgot who taught. I wish I could give the credit to who it was, but was in my bodybuilding days.

[Sal Destefano]

So it works.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's magical.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it works great. If you leave your Shaker cup from the morning till evening, sometimes it ruins.

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Especially if it was. If it was sealed and it wasn't rich multiples out.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so all you do is you got to just throw a paper towel in there and then it'll. It'll absorb it all in there and it will not stink.

[Sal Destefano]

Speaking of calories and stuff. Okay, so we all have foods that we just like. We want to overeat. Right. And for me, I've talked about French fries before. Dude, it's the ones from in and out. I can't stop. No, no, no, listen, listen.

[Caller/Guest]

Those are delicious.

[Sal Destefano]

Listen, we've been going. We went to In N Out Now a few times with my family, and I'll order two fries. I always get two fries. And my kids never finish theirs. My niece doesn't finish hers. My wife, bro, listen, I ate five fries. Five.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, my God.

[Sal Destefano]

In a row. In a row. And I was like thinking to myself, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop. And I couldn't stop. It was too.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're so in that place right now that I remember one. You've healed your gut.

[Sal Destefano]

I think they put a lot of. I think they put drugs in.

[Adam Schaefer]

You've healed your gut so you. You feel a lot better. So you don't have that natural regular you should have. And you've built so much muscle that you could power through stuff like that and not get super fat. If you were getting fat, like, you would actually slow down. I know you.

[Sal Destefano]

If you were.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you were getting fat from it, you would slow down.

[Sal Destefano]

Call me fatter. This room, this reminds me of my

[Adam Schaefer]

daily gelato kick that I was on. Peak bodybuilding. You know what I'm saying?

[Sal Destefano]

When I was 240 and, like, 7%

[Adam Schaefer]

body fat, I was eating gelato every day.

[Sal Destefano]

But you're like this with ice cream, right? If it's in front, you'll just eat it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Until it's gone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Gone?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. See?

[Adam Schaefer]

Gone.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Like, you won't stop because it hurts.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, you'll just keep going. No, actually, I mean that until it actually hurts. I will pass. Yeah, I'll pass. Full until it. It starts.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, how much will it, like, go to an out? Like a gallon?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, no, I. I could put a whole. The whole, you know, the whole carton thing.

[Sal Destefano]

Wow. Yeah. Is that a gallon?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I know it's not a gallon.

[Sal Destefano]

No, gallon's a big one. A quartz.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's more than a quart. What's the thrifties ice cream thing? Like that? Yeah, I could put a whole, which is like, I think 3,000. 3,000 calories worth.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. No, I could do that. That's a lot right now. I couldn't do that. But I. I peak. Peak metabolism. When I was like. Like, where you're at right now, where you're saying you could eat five fries.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I could eat a whole. I couldn't believe it, though. I just kept eating, and my kids

[Caller/Guest]

are like, I don't roll switch, dude. Because I can't eat anything without feeling the pain of it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It just.

[Caller/Guest]

I can't, dude. I can't eat, like, all the fun, crazy stuff. Like, I'll eat little bits.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you do the parasite?

[Caller/Guest]

Die later.

[Sal Destefano]

You might have worms. Did you get the parasite cleanse? You got to do it, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Adam did it. I did it. I did it.

[Sal Destefano]

You gotta do it, dude.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, you might have me, but I. I mean, it's gonna stop.

[Adam Schaefer]

Cheese, dog. Stop.

[Brock]

Cheese.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's all he's gotta do. Yeah, I'm just gonna just reflaim it

[Sal Destefano]

on the one condition that's refuses.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you. Is that. What is it? For you. Justin, where you fit some cheese? Is it just still. Is it cheese for real?

[Caller/Guest]

Well, I always eat cheese, so that's. Yeah, we don't even care.

[Adam Schaefer]

How much is that, Doug?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Quarter and a half.

[Adam Schaefer]

Quart and a half.

[Sal Destefano]

Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, yeah, I could put A quarter and a half.

[Sal Destefano]

That's 3,000 calories. Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Good God.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. You know. You know. You know, we always talk about the stuff that, like, stems from childhood. It's like, childhood, right? And we didn't have it. I remember, like. Like, I have a lot of blurry memories. One of, like, my biggest memories is I moved out when I was 17, got my own apartment. And I remember the first time I went grocery shopping.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm getting ice cream.

[Adam Schaefer]

My freezer was. My freezer was literally nothing but frozen burritos and freaking ice cream, dude. And it's all that was in there. And I remember because I couldn't do it. My parents would let me do it as a kid. I would open up the container and sit in front of the tv, and I just sit there and eat the whole thing, dude. Eat the whole thing.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I can't. I can't.

[Adam Schaefer]

And the worst part was I played basketball. I did all these active things so I could get away with it. Yeah. It's like, it was the worst thing that could happen to me. Like, I. I know that if it. If. If it put a ton of weight on me, it would have. It would have. Like, I would. Would have.

[Caller/Guest]

I feel like there was, like, two or three years where it was just Costco. Like, I only ate Costco. Like, Bagel Dogs. One of those, like, Bagel Bites. Yes. Otter Pops in, like. Yeah. Ice cream. That was it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

It was like. Yeah, that.

[Adam Schaefer]

There was, like, a frozen burritos. The Bagel Bites and Hot Pockets I lived off of for years, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, my God.

[Caller/Guest]

Terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know why? Because they sell you on how healthy they are. How many grams of protein are in.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Look at how many grams of protein are.

[Sal Destefano]

I remember when I realized if you ate a pound of pasta, it was, like, 40 grams of protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Raviolis, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

I remember they eat it all in. I'll eat a pound of pasta. That's all the sheep. Let's go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, what did you guys. What did everybody do for Valentine's Day?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, good. So Jessica made it this fun holiday for the kids. So they all came downstairs, they had a little Valentine's Day gift. She set up the table with, like, hearts, and I got chocolate covers. It was really nice. So she's like. She wants to start this tradition. And then I got her a gift. I was gonna get her something else. I won't say it on air because I'm gonna hold that for another time. But one thing I love. So my wife's into working Out. And so what's cool about that is I can get her fitness gifts without it being, like, offensive. Like, typically, you buy your wife, like, a workout. Like, something for exercise. You always, like, run the risk of, like, okay, are you saying I'm fat? Like, what's the deal? You know what I mean? Hey, honey, I got you this new machine. But she loves. Right? She loves it. And we have the big. We have our big garage, and so I got a. You guys know that row machine I got recently?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, so.

[Sal Destefano]

So love it. That same company. I'm not going to mention them because they don't sponsor us, but they got some. I got a standing abductor machine. Have you ever seen standing abductor machines?

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

So, you know adductor machines. Waste of time, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

There's ones where you stand and you squat down and press your legs out and. And it really hits and isolates the glutes as a way to. To emphasize connection. Interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Can you load yourself while you do it?

[Sal Destefano]

You can load the. Yeah. There's weight on it. You could load. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But that's only on the abduction or adduction.

[Sal Destefano]

It doesn't matter. You have to push down and out as you come out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

And Brett Contreras is. He constantly posts about these standing hip. Hip abducting machines. I've never used them before, but I know enough about exercise and the body to know what something will feel like. And they saw. I saw one for the house, for, like, your home gym. So that's what I got.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, did you try it? Did you?

[Sal Destefano]

No, I just ordered it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

So I haven't used it, so that's what I got it for.

[Adam Schaefer]

What'd you do?

[Caller/Guest]

Okay. Yeah, we went up to Half Moon Bay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I love that.

[Caller/Guest]

It kind of doubled up. Well, it definitely doubled up. It was like my birthday present that was like.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's like, he's like, Valentine's Day birthday present.

[Caller/Guest]

I really was like, we're smashing both these together at this point. You waited too long. So, you know, we're just gonna just make it a.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I get credit for Valentine's Day?

[Caller/Guest]

Exactly. I get credit for this. So, yeah, we enjoyed that.

[Sal Destefano]

But it was.

[Caller/Guest]

I mean, brought our own. We like to do it. So it's like we have our own kind of setup so we don't really have to leave. And see, I had a couple bottles of Romy, and it was made sure this time to bring some zebiotics and all that. We were, like, set, dude. So I didn't have any of the ramification of that next day. So we had a great time.

[Sal Destefano]

When it's just you and your wife, like, how much? Because obviously when you're in your 20s, you just go hard with drinking too far or whatever. What. How. What does that average out to? If you guys are hanging out just two of you and you're drinking, is it like four glasses?

[Caller/Guest]

I mean, it's probably like. It's probably like a bottle and a half.

[Sal Destefano]

Total.

[Caller/Guest]

Total.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that's. That's not too bad. Over the course of, like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, a bottle is only four glasses.

[Caller/Guest]

And so we're not, like, crazy. Yeah. Like you said, we're not like raging teenagers. Enjoy, like, the scenery,

[Sal Destefano]

which you get

[Adam Schaefer]

to ask me about what we.

[Sal Destefano]

But you. But you. But the Zbonics makes a difference.

[Caller/Guest]

It made a bit because I'm not, like, with wine. I enjoy the flavor, enjoy the taste, but, like, it usually gives me, like, I definitely feel like, headaches especially. Yeah. Dude, it just. It doesn't sit well with me usually.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just. Just help with it. Does Courtney, like, the Z Box also? Does she use it too?

[Caller/Guest]

She does too, yeah. Because. Yeah. And the thing is, like, we like to be out and about and, like, go place we don't want to be, like, oh, just like, stay in bed all the next day, you know, so we want to get up and go. And we're out, like, downtown and doing a bunch of stuff, and we went to some place where it's like, I had to endure. So there's these, like, natural, like, plants, gardening places and stuff. And so I'm like, you know, the. The husband that's like, you know, what is this? And, like, I'm trying to. Trying to pronounce, like, all these Latin names and stuff. Like, what kind of hocus pocus wizardry is this that we're buying? You know, it's like.

[Sal Destefano]

Anyways, that's where you act interested.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, I act interested. Like, I'm like, yeah, this. Wow. This is only, you know, grows in this kind of native climate. Cool. You know, so. But it. Yeah, we had a good time.

[Adam Schaefer]

You saw your bagpipes, too. Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah. I love that place for that. It's just. It brings those. Those vibes of, like, when we were in Scotland. It's. It definitely brings that here. And it. That's a cool feature.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have you done that yet? Have you gone into one of those? Both Half Moon Bay and Spanish Bay both do that.

[Sal Destefano]

No, we went. And I've never done that. No.

[Adam Schaefer]

So cool. Yeah, it's cool. You Get a room right there.

[Sal Destefano]

And then they play that.

[Adam Schaefer]

And when. At the sunset. So you're watching the sunset come down the ocean, and the. And the bagpipes goes the whole coastline. So for like an hour, he's.

[Sal Destefano]

When I hear bagpipes, I can't help but think Braveheart, the movie.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. It's like. It feels like war.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, hell, yeah. Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Well, yeah. It's like a cinema, I think. You know, it's a weird thing, but I thought about this, because each culture kind of has, like, a distinctive instrument and, like, kind of like music. And so bagpipes, for me, it hits like, it. You know, it's like a. Like, almost like a tearing effect. I swear to God. Yeah. And I.

[Sal Destefano]

Doesn't happen with me.

[Caller/Guest]

I think of Adam and I'm like, you know polka?

[Sal Destefano]

No, no. Mariachi, bro. Yeah, we get both.

[Adam Schaefer]

You get, like, the German, and I don't.

[Caller/Guest]

Mexicans use. Dude, they. It's polka, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't get. I don't get tearful when I hear an accordion, you know? Yes, you do.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's that song I told you I listened to? Listen to that. Dry. That's famous. What's that? Who's that artist? Tell me. I know you feel. Even I feel that I'm not Italian. I'm like, that's the equipment. I turn it all the way up,

[Sal Destefano]

drive with my windows down. Yeah, of course you are, bro. You're driving your Italian car. That's why I feel it, though. You know what I'm saying? It just feels right.

[Caller/Guest]

It just.

[Sal Destefano]

It feels right. What did you. What did you do? What you guys do?

[Adam Schaefer]

We had. We had Jay and Jason and Danielle over. I. I cooked. I cooked. I cooked for everybody. I prepped my. Katrina wanted my baby back ribs, and so I did baby back ribs. Made a baked bean homemade thing that I did. And then. And then they brought some stuff, and then we z. Biotic it up and then drank. But ours looked a little bit different than a bottle and a half. I mean, Katrina alone put three bottles of champagne. Yes, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

She has extra livers, doesn't she? Yes. How does she.

[Adam Schaefer]

And she doesn't do that. She occasionally do zbiotic dog. She did not do it.

[Sal Destefano]

I could just process.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's. It's a. It's a. It's in genes, dude. You can do. I cannot.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, God. I would die.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that was. She had three bottles of champagne, and then her and Daniel. Danielle cracked another bottle of white wine. That's how that. We finished the night.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

Insane, dude. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely insane. And you wouldn't know, like, because she. She keeps herself pretty composed. I mean, I mean, until she came down, the Britney Spillers outfit. And then I realized, like, your mom's in the house and you just came down. Yeah, it's like, I was like, dude,

[Sal Destefano]

like, you guys gotta leave. Then I real. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did I realize everybody out?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did I realized how tipsy she was?

[Sal Destefano]

I was just like, you know, your mom is upstairs in the room and you just walk downstairs, like, go upstairs. Hold on, I'll be there.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I'm like, okay, this is what three bottles looks like.

[Sal Destefano]

What do you say to get everybody out? Or are you just like, hey.

[Adam Schaefer]

Danielle had just left and I was downstairs doing dishes and stuff like that. And my. So my mother in law stayed the night and her and Max, they went up to. They went up to bed, watch movies in the spare room or whatever like that. So they're. They had been in bed for a few hours. We stayed up drinking by the fire, watching Nate Barghazi, laughing, having a good time. So that. And the kitchen was a disaster. I can't go to sleep. I cannot have a good night with. With a dirty dish looming.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so I'm like, I'm gonna. Just let me straighten up a little bit and stuff like that. And so I'm downstairs and here she comes down, Britney Spears out, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

And I'm like, yes, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

She's like, come to bed. And I'm like, you know, your mom is like, literally.

[Sal Destefano]

Now do you leave the dishes or you just wash faster? I've washed faster because I can't.

[Adam Schaefer]

I still can't.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like I'm getting. I'm getting them done. Don't worry.

[Adam Schaefer]

She's like, hurry, because I'm gonna fall asleep. I'm like, no, you won't.

[Sal Destefano]

I'll be up there just a minute. You know what I'm saying? So.

[Adam Schaefer]

So yeah, if you open the dishwasher, there's like food clumped all over the

[Sal Destefano]

food, you know what I'm saying? I didn't do a good job of spraying everything down. Is there an outfit like my wife? If she wears.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've never seen that one.

[Sal Destefano]

That was the new one. Obviously. That was my wife. If she wears like a long, like, like flowy dress, if she has an apron on barefoot and she's doing anything in the kitchen, I don't understand what happens to me.

[Adam Schaefer]

That sounds biblical, bro. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I just don't. I was like, I lose my mind Bro. And if she has no makeup on on top of it, she thinks I'm lying. She's like, no, you don't. Really. So listen, you try that. It's the hippie dippy in you. Something, dude. That's hilarious. Something, dude. She's in the. You know, she's in the kitchen making food. I'm like, oh, God.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm like, tall, tall socks and short shorts.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, well, that's to me. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, mine's pretty.

[Caller/Guest]

Any skirt?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tennis skirt is like.

[Sal Destefano]

There's nothing that I can put on though, that'll do that. You know what I mean? I'm trying. No, there's nothing.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, they don't.

[Adam Schaefer]

Whatever, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

We do shirtless and a tool belt for you.

[Caller/Guest]

That's true. That is like a home run.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, but you can't just walk out. You have to actually do something.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, you gotta actually fix thing.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you pretended yet you just walked out with a tuba and just carried a 2x4?

[Caller/Guest]

But you know, I saw a hack. It was fun. I saw this guy, this bad hack, who actually, he ended up going in and like, like loosening bolts and things ahead of time.

[Sal Destefano]

And it was.

[Caller/Guest]

And then like, would turn the water off and was just like, oh, the toilet's not working. Like, oh, man, better go get, you

[Sal Destefano]

know, the tool belt.

[Adam Schaefer]

He goes and grabs it.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, I'm gonna need some beverages. And like, like his. His little daughters coming in, giving them, like drinks and stuff. He's like, oh, thank you, honey. Like, this is so hard

[Sal Destefano]

with the hammer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Gets all the praise.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that's great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, I found a new show.

[Sal Destefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

And for some reason I thought I had lit the preview and I didn't think it was going to be that good. Katrina and I, both from different friends, had the recommendations and we're like, you know, maybe we should.

[Caller/Guest]

We'll turn it on.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'll watch it really good. It's on Apple tv, shrinking with Harrison Ford. And the guy from yes Man, I forget his name. He does more comedic movies. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm talking about.

[Caller/Guest]

I know you're talking about.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can't think of this.

[Caller/Guest]

I love you, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. I love you, man. That's what it is, not yes Man. I love you, man. Yeah, that. That guy. I forget his name. And. And Harrison Ford. And it's very well written comedy. Short. Really good. It's on season three, I think season three right now. And we. The only reason why we turned it on was because we literally had like three different people tell us, like, have you guys not seen it? We're like, oh, we saw it on Apple. We didn't, we didn't watch it. Or they're like, oh, my God, it's so good.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so funny because we went to go watch it and it was, it's ranked number one right now on Apple and watched it and it's really good. It's really.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah. That, that new Game of Thrones show, Jason Seagull. That's his name, Seagull.

[Sal Destefano]

I, I, I refuse, I refuse to watch anything until I see if they're not on the EP list. I don't know, man. Oh, God. Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

People watch any TV.

[Sal Destefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

You get Mr. Rogers and he's gone.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, everybody, everybody reruns them.

[Caller/Guest]

Makes me love Mr. Rogers even more nowadays.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, geez, I wish that's the type of person that should be taught in history. I know his story. So good. It's been a long time since something. Watching something got me, like, emotional. His documentary was so.

[Sal Destefano]

Just a great guy.

[Adam Schaefer]

So good. And I mean, as a kid I watched it, but I didn't know his full story.

[Sal Destefano]

Which, by the way, I got to say this. Justin, you brought this up. Is it true that the Epstein email show that Michael Jackson was innocent? Bro, I've been going and was actually taking kids and bringing them to Neverland Ranch to prevent them from getting sent.

[Caller/Guest]

I've heard this. I don't know if that's, that's proven. There's a lot of, like, conjecture around it because too, I was actually.

[Sal Destefano]

That would suck because I know I

[Caller/Guest]

was talking to one of my friends about it too. And his uncle actually was one of the arresting sheriffs in Santa Barbara and who went there. And so one thing he said was like, the doors, like, you could lock them, you couldn't get out from the, you couldn't open them from the inside. Oh, that's, it's like, weird, right? So then, so then he was kind of like, you know, I don't know, like, because I want to believe that because I, I'm a huge Michael Jackson fan. And then I saw like, a lot of these theories kind of opening up about that, but who knows, dude?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, I've watched all kinds of stuff on that. I went down that rabbit hole too. I saw, I heard the phone call for the night he was killed or died, you know, and he's literally with his doctor. Yeah, he's literally taught. No, it's not his doctor. He's talking to somebody else and he's talking Saying that they want to kill me. He's like, they're, he's, he's basically the night. It's the, it's the, it's the night before, you know, that he was in the middle of suing Sony for. And so he was in the middle of suing Sony. Macaulay Culkin and the other kid who spent the most time with him said that they defended him. That court case, you know what they want, those kids, he won that case. So all the stuff that was against him, that they made a documentary about him and everything like that, he won that case.

[Caller/Guest]

When it came out after he died too. And these were all kids, they dismissed their testimonies. And then all of a sudden, now this documentary comes out and they put their false accusations in the documentary. So it's like, to me, yeah, it's all suspect.

[Sal Destefano]

Interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Really crazy, right?

[Sal Destefano]

Look, everybody, the science on red light therapy is profound. There are studies that go back decades that show that red light therapy, light boosts function in all the cells that are exposed to it. What does that mean? You put it on your scalp, you grow more hair, you put it on your skin, your skin gets healthier. You put it on a muscle, it recovers faster. Put on an injury, inflammation goes down. You can even raise testosterone with red light therapy. Here's the problem. Most of the wavelengths that are offered by the red light therapy you find all over the Internet. It's not the ones they use in studies. It's actually crap. You're wasting your time. But there is one company that uses the same wavelengths that you see in studies. It's joovv. JOOVV is red light therapy that works like the ones you find in the studies. And if you go through our link, you'll get yourself a big discount. Go to Joovv.com mindpump that's J-O-O-V-V.com mindpump. The code mindpump will get you $50 off back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Our first caller is Jasmine from Colorado.

[Jasmine]

I've been lifting for about over a decade. I've been training Brazilian jiu jitsu for 14 years. I've been climbing for four years since I moved to Colorado. And this past month or so since giving birth to my baby boy has been probably the hardest adjustment as an active person who's been consistent for so many years. Even in pregnancy, I managed to maintain like three times a week of adjusted lifting regimen. I also managed to kickbox all the way through the week I gave birth. But since Then I've only been walking and doing occupational therapy. And as you probably can imagine, I'm pretty eager to get back into the swing of things. And at this moment, as I'm trying to think about what my life looks like and how my activity looks now post Baby, I have plans to do maps 15 in my home gym, especially after hearing feedback from you guys to other parents on the podcast. But what I've noticed is that programs and advice specifically to recovery, postpartum and actually during pregnancy are pretty dated and often lacking. Especially as an active person. Even though I'm waiting for clearance from my doctor to be able to work out again, I'm pretty much opposed to child for overdoing it on things. And it's funny that you just had that podcast where you talked about getting back in shape after having a baby, but I would love to get your feedback on what this actually looks like. Specifically, how do I treat lifting differently than jiu jitsu and climbing? And what does it really look like? Is it starting from completely zero with body weight exercises? Is it a little bit away? I'd love to hear what you guys think.

[Sal Destefano]

Jasmine, thank you for this question so much. Is this your first child?

[Jasmine]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Thank you for calling in, because you're right. The information that's out there for moms is dated and it's based off of it's. First of all, it sucks anyway across the board. But it's also based off of inactive, you know, regular people, I guess, people who aren't working out all the time or staying fit. Nonetheless, number one, I want to encourage you. You're doing a really good job. And the reason why I want to tell you that is because what you went through, and I would love for you to expand on this, just for other moms listening is probably the most radical body change. I'm not in control what's going on. Things are changing. Like experience you've probably ever had through your fitness career. Is that. Am I putting it accurately?

[Jasmine]

Yeah, 100%.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. The hardest thing about all of this for someone like you who's been working out and fit and active is it's so hard being someone who for a long time, you've kind of got your hands around your body and fitness. Like, you've done it for so long. You're like, I know how to get fit. I know when something hurts. I know what to do with my diet. Like, this is great. But you've been given a radically different hormone profile body and different perspective. Even your thought process is different. You're probably even finding yourself thinking and reacting in ways that are different, especially postpartum, which is a very difficult thing to process because you got to kind of let go.

[Jasmine]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You're like, I don't know what's going on anymore, which is really scary thing to do. So here's what you'll hear from people in social media. They'll say things like, oh, once you're released, once your doctor says you can get back and exercise and by six months, you'll be back in shape. A year later at the longest, you're going to be great. It'll be like, whatever. You might even have someone posting and saying that this, this is me and I'm great and I'm fit and all that stuff. Lies. It's all lies. It's all lies. It's going to take you to feel like your old self the way you did before you got pregnant. It's going to take about two years. Now. That doesn't mean in that two year process, you're not going to see fitness improvements and changes and strength and all that stuff. But don't expect to feel the way you did before for at least two years also. Yes, you are. You got to treat this like you're starting over completely because this is a completely different body than you're used to. Hormones are different. Your priorities are different. Even the way you process sound and sleep is different. You hear your baby crying, it does something to you that you've never experienced before. In the middle of the night, you probably wake up at the slightest movement of the baby. Whereas before you might have been able to sleep all night. You might have intrusive thoughts. What if I drop the baby? What if this happens? This is all part of the what happens to you as a mom to make you a better mom. Okay? So you got to start completely over with, with everything the program that we have. And I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but I'm going to encourage you right now because of your fitness background, it's going to be way easier for you than it is for most people. The challenge is going to be you submitting to the whole process. That's going to be the challenge. The whole challenge is, can I just give in to the whole thing? The best program we have postpartum, by far, hands down, is Map Starter. It's better than Maps.

[Jasmine]

I actually have Map Starter.

[Sal Destefano]

Good.

[Jasmine]

I didn't run it, but I bought it for my dad. But I actually have it.

[Sal Destefano]

You're going to start Map Starter and you're going to be like, this sucks. This is way too easy. I could do this on my strength.

[Caller/Guest]

Strength, stability. Yeah, get into it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, this is easy. Like, what am I doing? I'm way stronger than this, or whatever. Trust. Totally trust the process. Because you have to relearn muscle recruitment patterns. Your hormones aren't going to be back to what they were before for a little while anyway. Lots of things stretched and moved. Your pelvic floor muscles have been changed for the time being. Your core stability has changed for the time being. Posterior change has changed for the time being. So MAP Starter is going to be the program that you start with, and you're probably going to run that once or probably twice and then move to something like Maps 15.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, now let me tell you some encouraging and positive stuff. And this was stuff that I remember having to communicate to Katrina as. Because she came into pregnancy in, like, some of the best shape of her life. Diet was dialed. She felt the best. She was lean, strong. All the things felt great. And I started her on Starter, and I remember her within a couple weeks like, all right, I'm ready. Give me anabolic or give me the next program. Like, I'm ready. And I'm like, are you not seeing progress and results every week? And she's like, well, yeah, I am. So I'm. And I'm like that exactly. The goal is to do as little as possible to list at the most, change, you're seeing change. So the cool part about somebody like you or her is even going through a program that in your head, you go, this is so less of what I would. Yeah, this is so much easier or basic compared to what I could do or normally would. Do you think that it's not enough to give you results, but you'll see results. You'll get stronger, stability will come together. Like, you'll see progress on a program that is so less than what you're probably used to doing. And I would remind her, like, let's reap the benefit from this. The fact that you can do a program so elementary to you and see results is such a good thing. Let's keep going down this process. Don't worry, we'll get there. So that's the positive. The positive thing is because you've got such a great background doing a program that in your head, psychologically, you'll be like, this is not enough. But if you ask yourself, am I getting stronger every week? Am I. Is my stability coming back together? Am I feeling? You'll be able to tell yourself you are. And so ride that train. Ride that train and enjoy that process. And you will. You'll get stronger, you'll get better, and someone like you will rebound quicker than the average.

[Sal Destefano]

Now, Jasmine, you got to also reframe how you view progress or what you consider to be progress. So sometimes progress, because I know what it's like to have kids now. I'm not a mom, but I, you know, I'm married to one. And so sometimes progress is I have more energy than I probably would. I actually feel better than I probably would. I'm less anxious than I probably would be. So it's a little bit of new territory. Your old perception of progress might not be one that you're going to use now. So it might just be okay. I'm actually better than I probably would be. Even though I'm struggling. Would I be struggling more if I wasn't doing this right now? If you do this wrong and you push yourself a little too hard or you do the wrong movements, aches, pains, injury, fatigue, and feeling fried or burnt out, or what are going to happen to you. So I remember even my wife, I mean, she, you know, she was consistent with her exercise real strong beforehand, the whole deal. And she'd be like, man, I just. I didn't even think. I went hard and my back is hurting. Like, what's going on? I'm like, honey, your. Your muscle recruitment patterns, we gotta wait. And so she couldn't even push certain exercises for like a year and a half because each time she'd do it, she kind of hurt and couldn't figure it out. But then afterwards it was like, not a big deal. So just stick with starter, stick with starter, go on walks with the baby, watch Jiu Jitsu videos. That'll help keep the techniques fresh in your mind. If you do Jiu Jitsu, you know, a year later, you're just gonna flow. You know what that means? Because you do Jiu Jitsu, you're just gonna kind of go through the techniques and movements and flow. Don't go too hard and just. And you're gonna listen. In a couple years, you're gonna be like, wow, I'm ready to roll. Unless you have another baby in between, which will take a little longer.

[Jasmine]

Yeah, that's. The jujitsu is the one that I'm actually the most nervous about. Like, I have some. Some lingering injuries pre pregnancy that I, like, did PT for. And I can still feel them, especially now, like in my hips, like with having the baby and stuff. I feel like they're still there know that I need the muscle recruitment stuff. Definitely makes sense. But Jiu Jitsu is definitely the one that I'm. I have the most questions about because it's easy for me to lift and even to kickbox on a bag. Like, I can control things, but when I'm training with people, like, I can't really control their behaviors and how intense they go. And I don't. And I'm not exactly expecting to get back into, like, competition shape, like in the. In a year, but I would be curious to see like. So you're saying like a year before I really get back into Jiu Jitsu the way I used to be?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. If you start to feel good, then you're just gonna go roll at a very low intensity and flow, which you know what that feels like. You're just. You're just practicing technique. Not tons of resistance. You get them into a position, you let them escape. You move into a new position just to keep the techniques fresh in your mind. But no hard. Nothing hard. No hard grappling. The risk of injury is high. The areas that are most susceptible to injury postpartum are hips, back, and the pelvic floor. And pelvic floor injuries can feel like low back injuries. Okay. Or hip or sciatica type stuff. It's because they're all connected with that.

[Jasmine]

That makes sense. Thank you.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it. And you have starter.

[Jasmine]

I do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep. Good, good. Eat to nourish yourself. That might be the other question. High protein is really good. Don't go on a cut. Don't try to go on a cut. Are you. Are you nursing? You're breastfeeding?

[Jasmine]

I'm transitioning from breastfeeding right now.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. So yeah. So that'll give you a little bit more flexibility. But just eat to nourish your body. Let your body heal. Enjoy your baby. You'll be back at it before you know it, and you're gonna feel great. But be patient. Okay.

[Jasmine]

Thank you so much, guys.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it. Thanks for calling in.

[Jasmine]

Appreciate it.

[Sal Destefano]

Not enough is communicated appropriately to women. It's just like, terrible. The information that's out there and the expectations for women who are fit is just. And again, I want to be clear that doesn't mean between now and the two year period, she's not feeling good.

[Caller/Guest]

She'll make rapid progress. You have to be realistic about what you know. You have to recover and heal from completely.

[Sal Destefano]

What I'm talking about is this. She'll get fit and healthy. So that's not. I'm not Saying it's going to take two years to get fit and healthy and look good. All that stuff that'll happen sooner. But she'll know this and this is what you'll hear. Women who are sincere and honest who do this, they'll tell you this, like, I just don't feel like myself a hundred percent. Right. You know, and then like two years later, like, oh, there it is.

[Caller/Guest]

It's a new baseline that you have

[Adam Schaefer]

to work well, especially someone like this who's, who's a peak fitness person.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

14 years of Jiu jitsu training, climbing,

[Sal Destefano]

that's a high bar.

[Caller/Guest]

So she'll be a. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

For someone like that, it's, it's a definite two year, you know, because you're not going to feel PQ for a long time. But someone like, the positive thing just so. Because I felt like we just laid a bunch of bad news on her is that she, her body will like more than the average person.

[Sal Destefano]

I guarantee she looks better than 99 of women, feels better than 99 already at this stage.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Caller/Guest]

It's also why it's so important for her to be dialed in with her recruitment process right now. Because otherwise, you know, you get strong and then now we're, we have these, these new bad patterns that we're established.

[Sal Destefano]

And by the way, whenever we communicate something like this, remember we were coaches. I'm going to give somebody the general answer. Does that mean some people are not going to get there faster? Some people will get there faster. But what I'm not going to say, which is a stupid mistake that coaches make, is tell them the best, best case scenario, you'll be back to yourself

[Adam Schaefer]

in five, six months.

[Sal Destefano]

And then, poor girl is like a year later is like, what's going on? So, so like two years is generally what you'll experience.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Alex from Washington.

[Sal Destefano]

What's up, man? How you doing, Alex?

[Caller/Guest]

What's happening?

[Alex]

Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for having me on. It's awesome to meet you.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it, dude. How can we help you?

[Alex]

Yeah, I originally wrote into the show to get some perspective on my fat loss goals. So I'm going to set the stage for you here with a few notes. I'm 35 years old and when I reached out, I was 205 pounds. I had a DEXA scan from November that put me at 30% body fat, which was honestly really surprising to me because I work out all the time. I knew that I wasn't even close to my peak shape anymore. But I guess That I was in a bit of denial about the body fat that I had put on. I'm a new dad. My son was born in August, so I've had to reel back a few days in the gym per week. But I do have a modest home gym set up and a membership to a commercial gym that's right down the street from my house. It's really close. I lift, push, pull legs three times a week and I usually do about 20 minutes of low intensity cardio afterwards. Up until recently my calories were pretty inconsistent. I was eating anywhere from 1800 calories per day to like the upper 2000s. Pretty, pretty big swings. Um, and while I, I know I eat a lot of meat, I really wasn't tracking protein. So I was probably hovering around a hundred grams of protein per day for a long time. I think that my maintenance calories is 2,500. Over the last two to three weeks I've been tracking my calories, tracking my macros and my steps. I use MyFitnessPal to do all that. I've been eating about 2,000 calories per day. I've been hitting 150 to 200 grams of protein per day, 100 to 200 grams of carbs per day depending on if I'm working out or if it's an off day. And I've been keeping the fats under 60 grams and averaging about 6,000 steps per day. So that's been about two to three weeks. Being really diligent. My weight has dropped from 205 to 196 as of today. I'm feeling great about the drop. I'm feeling like it's probably water weight, inflammation, glycogen. I want to make sure that I'm approaching this, this cut and my goal of reducing body fat sustainably and not do anything drastic and rebound. I've been on drastic cuts before, as low as like 1600 calories for a long time. And you know, I was able to achieve my goal but it was just like not sustainable. And the season of life I'm in right now, that's, it's just not, it's not the right plan for me. So basically you know, my goal, all that is to say my goal is to get down to 15 body fat and would love your thoughts on, you know, how to move forward from here. You any advice?

[Adam Schaefer]

You said you're at about 2,400 calories right now.

[Alex]

Over the last two to three weeks I've been eating pretty strictly 2, 000 calories. I'm estimating my maintenance is 2500.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So I'm estimating I'm in a slight deficit.

[Sal Destefano]

So I think there's a couple things you could do. I think what you're doing is okay, you're actually on the right track. But I'm going to take us. We're going to go back for a second before you got your DEXA scan. How are you feeling? Like, how are you feeling, fitness and health wise?

[Alex]

I was feeling really strong. I felt. I felt bloated, like I knew I was. I, like, felt puffy. I felt like I was on like a. Like a heavy bulk, but I felt really strong. Sleep was really good. You know, energy, everything.

[Sal Destefano]

Libido, all good.

[Alex]

Yeah. Energy, libido, everything was really good. I just wasn't happy with the mirror, so.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. But here's the deal, because here's what I'm hearing. Like, I felt like I was doing all right. Then I got a DEXA scan and it changed how I felt. So I'm gonna help you with that a little bit. Okay. Don't get too hung up on a body fat test. Okay. Okay. Because it's like it could change everything just because the test said something. If you felt good, you're probably okay now. I like the direction you're going. There's only one thing I would change a little bit higher fat. Yeah, your fat is too low. Yeah. You got. Yeah. A guy like you, like, you get. Get down to 60. You're. You're playing with too little fat. That's going to start feeling like crap.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think. I think just a little bit. I think the bump in fat by 10 to 20 grams alone and that'll bump your calories a little bit. I think you can hover around the. Probably the 22 to 2300 calories and you'll be fine. And you'll be fine.

[Sal Destefano]

It'll be okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that. That should lean you. Lean you out and maybe even build a little bit of muscle. Just. I think you, like Sal said, I think you're on the right track. I think you were probably having big swings. It sounds like you knew that, like, you would have low day and then you have a really high day. I'm guessing that on those really high days, you probably overate carb type foods and probably didn't hit protein intake. On the low days, you probably didn't get enough protein and what you needed. And so now you're more and closer to the range of where you need to be. And I bet you can hover right around that 22 to 2400 range and actually see a nice body composition change and stay fed so you don't feel like you're starving. Your energy should be okay. And you'll know because you'll be. You'll be strong in the gym. You won't feel as strong as you do when you're eating 3, 000 calories and you're totally filled up because there's a different feeling. But you should feel strong and good energy and good libido and good sleep and should see a nice, nice leaning out process.

[Sal Destefano]

If you were my client. Because the last thing that you said, Alex, is I want to do this in a sustainable way. And I've kind of crash dieted before, so if you were my client, and I like that you said that, by the way. That's the number one concern as a coach for all my clients. That's number one because it's the most difficult thing. Losing body fat, building muscle, getting more fit. Those are hard, but they pale in comparison to consistency over long periods of time. That's like the number one challenge. So what I would do with you is I would say, look, let's do this, Alex. Stop tracking everything. Hit your protein targets. Stick to whole natural foods. That's it. Don't eat anything that's processed. Lift weights three days a week. Maps anabolic. Not the ppl. Whatever you're doing now go. Maps anabolic and try to aim for about 8,000 steps a day because you're at 6,000. Just do that. Just hit protein, whole natural foods when you're hungry. Don't go processed. That'll keep everything in check. Lift weights three days a week. Maps anabolic. Hit 8,000 steps a day. Now you're gonna get. You're gonna get the results and you're gonna do it in a way that's sustainable. It's not gonna feel like you're controlling everything, where at some point you're like, I want to get off of this.

[Alex]

Yeah. Yeah, I do feel like I need to control everything right now. Well, and part of the reason was because everything was, you know, chaos. It was totally uncontrolled. And I was like, all right, if I'm going to try to figure this out, let's. Let's try to control a few things and just see what happens. And then within two weeks, I was like, all right, I feel like I've lost some weight. And, you know, by listening to you guys a lot, like, I knew that was probably going to happen. I was probably going to just shed. Had a little bit of water weight inflammation and I'm feeling a lot better. Strength has definitely dropped. It's not dropped dramatically, but strength has dropped. But that's interesting about the fats. You guys think, yeah, that's low.

[Sal Destefano]

But stop tracking. Stop tracking everything. So I'm going to make it easier.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

The only things you need to control, hit your protein every consistently, every single day. Only eat whole natural foods. Hit 8,000 steps a day and lift weights. Don't track anything else.

[Adam Schaefer]

And eat when you're hungry.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just. But eat a whole food and eat a protein first. Right. So that's kind of like the. When I'm not tracking, I'm intuitive leading. I allow myself to eat when I want to. When I want to eat, I just don't eat the processed shit of the garbage and just go for a high protein meal and it'll kind of control itself.

[Sal Destefano]

It's very reasonable that you'll go from 13 to probably 16, 15% body fat doing this. Yeah, it's. It's actually quite expected. You don't have to do anything else to kind of get there. Now once you get to 15, 16, you're like, oh, cool, I want to get to 12 or 10. Then we might need to track a little bit more. But I think at that point you'll be great, you'll feel great and you'll be like, I'm cool. Okay, got it. I'll send. Yeah. Do you have maps anabolic?

[Alex]

No, No, I don't. Is it a three day a week plan?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's a three day a week plan. It's a better three a week than a push pool also. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna hit. You'll send results just from that. So that'll. That'll help.

[Alex]

Awesome.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Alex]

Yeah, I've been doing PPL for years. Would love to check it out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah, this would be a great change.

[Sal Destefano]

This will be a good change.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Alex]

Awesome, guys. Well, hey, I appreciate the perspective. I'll definitely put it in practice.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, check back with us in about 60 days. I'd like to hear where you're at. I think you're gonna see. I think you'll be really happy.

[Sal Destefano]

Alex, how long you been listening to the show?

[Adam Schaefer]

Just six months.

[Alex]

I, I just found you guys within the last year. So it's when I wrote in, I think it was like six or seven months. I was about to take a flight. I was looking for like fitness podcasts to listen to. I've been like hammering my Normal podcast, like JRES and stuff. And I was like, what is this mind pump? And I started listening and I was like, oh, okay. This is like my alley.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, good deal. We'll send you that program.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, right on. Check back with. I want to hear from you in six. In about two months. I think you're going to see a huge difference.

[Sal Destefano]

Cool.

[Alex]

All right, we'll do.

[Sal Destefano]

Thanks, guys. You know what's for us? He's only been listening for less than a year, so whatever. But it's. It's surprising how long people will listen before they get a program. A maps program.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And just as for anybody listening. Dudes.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're dudes, bro. It's stopping. Stopping and asking for directions, dog. It's stopping and asking for directions. Listen, I got this shit.

[Caller/Guest]

That sounds like good advice, but I'm gonna keep doing this.

[Sal Destefano]

Except you don't. At some point, you're just. You keep taking the wrong turn. Listen here. If you listen to the show for a while, it's probably because you like us. You probably find some value. Just get a damn program. Get a damn program. Try it out for yourself. Maybe we know what we're talking about and I'm gonna tell you this. It'll save you so much time and money because otherwise you'll call us in three years. Hey, guys, I've been trying this. Been trying. That's not working well here.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'll tell you.

[Caller/Guest]

It's our thoughts on paper.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'll tell you this too. I think, I think like push, pull legs is cool and all, but running it as a three day a week routine and not doing it as a six day.

[Sal Destefano]

We're doing it for forever. Yeah. You know, like it's. You got to change at some point in someone like this full body probably works better. Typically does.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no, for his lifestyle, it's gonna be way better. Why? Anabolic is gonna be right up his. That alone is already going to give him good results.

[Sal Destefano]

We'll see.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I, you know, to touch on what you said, I think it's really good advice to not track because I actually would want him. He's going to do Anabolic and he's going to build muscle.

[Sal Destefano]

If he.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. His appetite will go up. And so what he thinks his maintenance is right now might change. And so the advice of like, hey, eat when you're hungry. Just make good choices and watch what

[Sal Destefano]

happens if the secret to not rebounding. Part of the secret is to get to your goal with the least amount of control around everything is possible because that's what people end up letting go that causes the rebound.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Brock from Utah.

[Sal Destefano]

Brock, what's up? How you doing, Brock?

[Caller/Guest]

What's going on?

[Brock]

Wow, this is honestly crazy to be able to talk to you guys. I wrote out my question, so I'm going to read that because I am a rambler and so I don't want to ramble on and, you know, rambling man. Too much of your time, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, let's do it.

[Brock]

First of all, good morning, guys. I want to say thank you to all four of you for being such amazing role models to me and everything you do and say. Ever since I found your podcast, Shout out to Chase Chuning and the Ever Forward Podcast, I have been listening and passing on all of your information to anyone that asks or that will listen to me. Since I submitted my question, a lot has changed. I have since graduated from college and I'm still looking for a job related to my degree. So I'm still working the night shift. I also no longer have a gym membership, so I work out at home using adjustable dumbbells, a suspension trainer, and bands. Um, I've already read and searched everything you guys talked about for night shift, but feel like I do better with maps anabolic style compared to maps 15. Um, I don't really track calories due to some obsessive habits with that, but I focus on eating protein first and trying to eat until I feel like I'm full. And then I average about 13 or 14 steps a day while at work. But on the weekends, which is Wednesday night and Thursday night for me, those next days, I'm kind of lucky to get above 5k. So they do very kind of extreme. I'm not really in looking for like aesthetics or anything. I just kind of want to have a good life and, you know, kind of like what you guys have been talking a lot about performing well and I wanted to really just focus on weight loss. I've lost about 60 pounds since going gluten free about 10 months ago. I do appreciate you guys and take all of your advice and recommendations very seriously. So thank you.

[Adam Schaefer]

It sounds like you're doing a really good job already. The, the quick solve on the program thing I would do based off of what you're saying, like something in between the map 15 and you can, you can double up the days on map 15.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, do a 30.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that like. Yeah, do like a, like a maps 30 or about 40 minutes is probably what it really takes to do that. And so just pair so you're doing four exercises a day. And really, with someone like you that has a shift like that, I would actually decide if I was going to pair it up based off of how good asleep and how rested and how good you feel. So actually, I would run, like, the Maps 15 protocol. But then when you have days where you're, like, well rested, well fed, you feel good, it's like, cool. I'm going to pair the next two days up. Days that you're, like, not so much that I might actually do just the maps 15. And so that's kind of how I would modify it for someone like you. I think that will solve the feeling like Maps 15 isn't enough, but Maps Anabolic is too much sometimes. I think that will help.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Brock, real quick. You said you feel like Maps Anabolic is better than Mass 15 for you. What do you mean by that?

[Brock]

More so habitually than anything. I don't know if it was the mindset of just being able to feel like I've accomplished per se, everything and, like, feeling like I did get a really solid workout in. I will say I'm not, like, the most consistent when it comes to working out. I do let things kind of sway me from stopping rather than, like, minimizing what I'm doing and still working out. So I'll do Maps Anabolic and I feel good, I feel great. And then something happens and I just stop completely. Whereas if I'm doing maps 15, I feel like I'm still leaving stuff on the table.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, well, you're wrong in that case, 15, I'm glad I asked if you came back. Like, oh, I get stronger, I get better performance or whatever. I'm like, all right, we'll stay with that. But, yeah, you got to just ignore your feelings. I think math 15 is better for you, bro, across the board. And just do your best to stay consistent, and you miss a day on it, then just pick back up where you left off. You'll get better results, dude. Okay. And when it comes to. Listen, Brock, when it comes to consistency, I'm just gonna tell you this a little. Every day works better than a lot every, you know, few days. It just does over. Over time. If I were to look at the total training that you did over six months or a year, ver you trying to follow one protocol versus the other, you're gonna do more with the protocol. That looks like a little bit every day. It's just. It's just how it works. And it's for night shift workers. It. No, it's like, bro, it's. There's no comparison.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, this is why I thought him pairing the 15 up, because if you. If you have. If part of your problem is you're. You're inconsistent with getting to the gym and you have a hard time probably getting the gym six days a week, and you don't see yourself doing that.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you have a home gym?

[Brock]

I just have some dumbbells and, like, the bands and suspension trainers.

[Sal Destefano]

And do you use those or do you just go to the Jimmy Shine?

[Brock]

No, I use those pretty regularly.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, it doesn't matter, dude. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Go mass 15. Stay consistent with it. It sounds to me like the problem is you feel like it's not enough of a workout when you do it.

[Caller/Guest]

So are you looking for that sore feeling? Are you looking for, like, is that what you're lacking or like, it's not

[Sal Destefano]

enough at one time?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Brock]

There are days that I get, you know, like Adam said earlier, I get a ton of sleep. I feel good. I feel great, and I'm like, I'm ready to take on, like, a good, solid workout. But then there are other days where, you know, no matter the amount of sleep I get, I feel like, yeah,

[Sal Destefano]

here's what's happening also.

[Caller/Guest]

Crank that intensity in that short amount of time. Yeah, right.

[Sal Destefano]

And here's what's happening to someone like you with a night shift. You're going to have those swings and energy because of your. Your. Your sleep schedule. Yeah. So it's not because one workout, because it's better to work out.

[Caller/Guest]

You know, it's gonna fluctuate a lot.

[Sal Destefano]

No. In fact, you're better off leaving energy on the table. When you have good energy, you'll get less of those days that you feel like you're. You're dragging.

[Caller/Guest]

Consistency will be more likely, for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude. It's gonna give you more energy anyway, and it's gonna give you less of those days where you feel like you're dragging. Okay, so you're. You're better off going in with a lot of energy and feeling like, man, I could have done three times as much and then just stopping. Then you are getting after it, because that's going to contribute to more of those days where you feel like you're just dying as.

[Adam Schaefer]

How is, like, your cravings and appetite with, like, the schedule and everything like that? Are you. I mean, you said you're pretty good with hitting the protein. How's your diet?

[Brock]

My diet? My wife and I, we are focusing on whole foods. I Would say it's about 90, 10 Whole Foods. We do, like you, Adam, do have the occasional sweet tooth. Ice cream is pretty amazing, so. But we like our sweets here and there. My wife wants her sweet treat with after every dinner, so, you know, we'll have something. We get, like, little yogis, their little fruit covered in yogurt for a sweet treat. Something like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Brock]

But for the most part, it's Whole Foods do, like salads, bowls, that kind of stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, good.

[Adam Schaefer]

So good, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you're Good. You're good. Mass 15, bro. Which one do you have? You have traditional mass 15. Maybe a new.

[Brock]

Yeah, just the traditional maps 15. We bought it when you guys released it. We were like, wow, this is going to be a good program. And we've liked using it in the past, but as I have the gym membership and, you know, moving into the night shift kind of threw everything through a loop.

[Sal Destefano]

What do you think? Map symmetry. Because he's got the dumbbells. Yeah. Symmetry 15.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, I'd be up for that.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, we're going to send you maps 15 symmetry. So you have another one option.

[Brock]

Oh, sweet. Thanks.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Stay the course, though. Sound like you're doing good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Sweet. All right, bro.

[Brock]

Thanks, guys.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it, man. Right on. Yeah. I had to ask because I'm like, why is he saying he gets better? Which would be. Listen, it's possible, but with a night shift, it's. It's less likely you'll get better results.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I was getting the impression that he struggles with being consistent, lifting six days a week. And so it was like, stay with maps 15. And then the days when that happens, you would double. Yeah, when that happens, I would just double it up. And then when it doesn't happen, and then you run 15. But the other advice, too, of just always running 15 is. Is also.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, because what he's saying is, like, man, sometimes I just got a lot of energy. Yeah. And then sometimes I feel like I have no energy. Leave the energy on the table when you have a lot of energy. Exactly. Helps.

[Caller/Guest]

That'll carry into the rest of the week.

[Sal Destefano]

100%.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Caitlin from New York.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi, Caitlyn.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Caitlin?

[Sal Destefano]

Hi.

[Caitlin]

How you guys doing?

[Sal Destefano]

Good. How can we help you?

[Brock]

Good.

[Caitlin]

Well, I'm super excited to be here. I just love the podcast. Thank you so much. I learned so much and it's always so interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you.

[Caitlin]

So my question is I'm a little nervous, so I'm going to read my email and try to stay on pace.

[Jasmine]

42.

[Caitlin]

I'm 42 years old. I'm about five five, 145 pounds. Body fat estimate is 25%. I live five days per week and run about five to six days per week. My goals are performance. I want faster 5k times, sprint speed and getting stronger on squats, deadlifts, bench, and pull ups. I also really struggle with body image and feel pressured away less and look leaner. I eat about 2,400 calories. My lifts are improving. I'm running faster, but I don't feel lean enough. I feel like I don't look like I do all the work. I have a long history of running, always been a runner. In 2023, I started lifting and I got into a strict calorie deficit, Lost a bunch of weight, got down to 125 and felt really good there. Since then, I've gained about 15, 20 pounds. The scale says about 7 pounds of or like half and half muscle and fat. So I know there's been, you know, it's been productive. But I really don't like the weight. I don't like how I look. And so my question is, how do you balance training for performance while also chasing, like, aesthetic goals and like, how do you manage nutrition and et cetera?

[Adam Schaefer]

Caitlin, how long you been listening to us?

[Caitlin]

For like a year and a half, Two years.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I feel like you know what's coming right now.

[Caitlin]

I kind of do.

[Sal Destefano]

I kind of do. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, here, let's.

[Sal Destefano]

Let me paraphrase. I want to be clear.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's paraphrase the 3. 3 goals.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, I'm. Yeah, just give some way clear. So you want to get faster, 5k time, sprint time. You also want to get stronger on squats, deadlifts, bench press, and pull ups. And you want to get leaner. Yeah. Is there anything you don't want to make $10 million?

[Adam Schaefer]

You wanna get taller? You wanna try to get taller too?

[Sal Destefano]

I know it's a lot. The only way to do all of that is if you pick one or two and focus on that and then pick the next one. So you're gonna have to pick a couple. So what do you want?

[Adam Schaefer]

I hear the aesthetic thing is the thing that seems to be bothering you, and that's the aesthetic goal. Doesn't pair well with all that. With all that running, it's just okay. Your. Your body is adapted. Conflicting goals to everything that you are doing to it. That's why it's not responding aesthetically. I bet your performance is Great. I bet you're probably very fit and healthy and all the, all the great markers are all good, which is a great place to be if you love doing all those things. But if you, if so, if you were a client of mine and you were doing all that stuff and you said, adam, I just, I'm doing all this stuff and I don't like the way I look or I want to change my body, I would say, well, we're going all about it.

[Sal Destefano]

Wrong.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. This is not the way we change your aesthetics to block it out.

[Caller/Guest]

So we focus on that you want

[Adam Schaefer]

to look a certain way and we want to do something that. That's a total different focus.

[Sal Destefano]

And.

[Caitlin]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

That. What that looks like is scaling way back on all the running. Scaling way back on how much we've been training, reverse dieting and building muscle to speed your metabolism up and then getting into a cut. It looks so different than performance based goals. Yeah. Now we'll probably get.

[Caller/Guest]

You're not going to drop too much performance wise too. Just FYI. You just need to shift your focus of priority completely so we, we allow the body to really respond appropriately to that. You come back, since you've been doing this for so long, your body's gonna jump right back into performance with, you know, the aesthetics.

[Adam Schaefer]

The good news is we can't. We. We can focus on the aesthetics and, and probably see incredible strength gains in the squats and the deadlift and going that direction. Because that's what I'd want to do. What I'd want to do with you if you were a client telling me that we want to change aesthetics. So I'd say, cool, let's. Let's reverse diet and let's get strong. Right. So that would be the focus would be to build some muscle lift, get, get better at those lifts. You're saying that's going to support our aesthetic goals, but we'd have to scale way back on all the running stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

Just so you know too, Caitlin, the average woman performs best right. Around 23 to 26 body fat. Okay. That's. That's the average woman. Typically, if you're looking for best performance.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. You're in that. You're there.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So getting leaner tends to decrease performance because of what's required with diet and hormones. Yeah. So what you don't want to do is crash your hormones and all that stuff in pursuit of all these other things. Okay. So there's a couple ways you could approach it. What Adam said is the more traditional one, which would like this Aesthetics first. And let's get that first. There is a way to do all of it slowly, really slow. But it looks like you're going to focus a little bit on strength training. Once one week and the next week a little bit on running. And you're going to alternate.

[Caitlin]

I heard you say that like another episode ago, and I wondered if that would work.

[Sal Destefano]

It would, but it's going to get. It'll get you everything slower so you'll kind of slowly get better and everything over time.

[Caller/Guest]

Like add a few months.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. So it would be like one day a week of strength training, four to five days a week of running, one week, the next week, four days a week of strength training, one day a week of running.

[Caitlin]

Okay, got it.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Caitlin]

So I could try that and then I to kind of go back for. The first step that you recommended was like, get strong and get lean and like take the running off to the side.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. That's the more. Yes, that's. If you're like, I want aesthetics, I want to see the aesthetics. Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

If it's a major priority, that would be the move.

[Sal Destefano]

And we're going to reverse diet.

[Adam Schaefer]

And the, the reason why I go that way is because I actually think. I bet your performance is pretty badass for. I think what. I think you're in optimal body fat range. I think you're probably pretty fast. I think you're probably doing pretty damn good performance wise.

[Sal Destefano]

We lost your camera for a second, Caitlyn.

[Brock]

I know.

[Caitlin]

I'm sorry about that. I don't know why that happened, but there it goes.

[Jasmine]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I, I feel like at least what I'm hearing, and I could be wrong, but what, what I'm hearing from you is like, I do all this work and I. And I don't have the look I want. And so when. If a client tells me that, I'm like, well, we're going about it the wrong way if we're looking for a look. And if you want to go for a look, let me handle that. We'll go for a look and then we can always get back like. And you're not gonna. Like Justin said, it's not. You're gonna. All sudden you can't run anymore. You won't be able to do these things. But that stuff will take. That becomes less important right now. Let's go. Build the metabolism, build the physique that you want. And then when you go, oh, man, Adam, I love this. I love the way I look with my legs, my arms all the things that you, you care about. Then I go, cool. Let's start to ramp up the running a little bit and see how it goes and see how much we can maintain this physique. And what, what that will probably look like is a much higher calorie intake with more muscle and have. And you'll be fed more while you go back to more of your running.

[Sal Destefano]

Are you, are you hitting, like, at least 140 grams of protein a day?

[Caitlin]

Yes, Definitely. Yep. Always. Always.

[Sal Destefano]

So it'd be maps. Maps. Anabolic would be your program, and you would really run, like, once, twice a week at the most.

[Caitlin]

Okay, once or twice. Okay. Drop it down to that way.

[Sal Destefano]

Down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And you're gonna keep your protein high? Probably. Yeah. Probably go up to about 2,500 calories. And then just get strong. And then, and then when you feel good, bump it up another little bit. And once you get up to, like, 27, 2800 calories or more, then you can start to cut, and then you'll see the fat come off.

[Caitlin]

Got it.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Caitlin]

And then later on, I can go back to the running. Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, you can. Now, if you, now if you want, if you want, like, coaching, if you want personal coaching, it's a much larger investment. But what a coach would do is walk you through the process step by step, right? You text them, hey, I feel this way. I'm going, what do I do here? And then we also have a question.

[Caller/Guest]

Whatever you're doing, they got you.

[Sal Destefano]

We also have coaches, much larger investment, but you're going to have someone coach you through the whole process. Process. So if you want that, we could have Doug make sure someone calls.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, that would be awesome. I would love that.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. I'll have somebody, I have somebody in mind for you, so I'll have someone

[Adam Schaefer]

call you, and then I'd love to check back in with you because we'll be checking up on your program as you go through it.

[Caitlin]

Okay, I would love that. Thank you so much. Okay, take care. Bye.

[Sal Destefano]

I love that. It's like, I want. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

As she's going through all. But I'm like, okay, I want the buffet.

[Sal Destefano]

I want to do. I want to start a new, new company. I want to make $10 million of first year, but I want to be super present with my wife and my four kids, and I want to learn a new hobby. Yeah. Okay.

[Caller/Guest]

Would be the greatest of all time.

[Sal Destefano]

Let's pick one right now.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I, I, I feel like it, it's typically the aesthetic thing, right? Because somebody who's doing that much work? That's what it is. It's like you're. You're right doing all these things and you're like, I eat good, I run like crazy, but I just don't have this physique I want. Well, it's because we're going about it wrong. It's like, that's not the process for the bet. And again, this is obviously why I asked how long you've been listening, because I feel like that's. The theme of this show, is that we're always telling people that cardio and running is not the best. This is not the best place to build a body you want.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, it's incredible.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, for aesthetics, it's incredible for your heart and it's good for being healthy and endurance. But it's, it's a terrible way to get the body you want if you have these goals. If I want shoulders and a butt and legs to look away, it's like, like that's not how you go about doing it. And so when you get someone who's doing this much work, they feel like, man, I should feel like I look better. But she's actually right. Like, you nailed it. She's. She's in the perfect place for performance. Like, if your body fat percentage and the way and she looks good, like, you're great. Like, let's. If you want to keep pushing the 5k thing and to get faster and that, we can keep doing that.

[Sal Destefano]

The problem is, is that people look at the elite athletes. Yeah, stop. Everybody stop comparing yourself to genetic anomalies. They just do. You don't. You're just so rare.

[Adam Schaefer]

The chick on the COVID of the

[Sal Destefano]

magazine who the best body fat percentage across the board generally for men for performance is like 15, 16%. For women, it's like in the mid-20s, you need those energy and there are those genetic anomalies. You'll see them, they're shredded and they're playing sports. Like, you're not like that. You're probably like the 99.99% of us. And it's a higher body fat percentage than having abs. Just this look. If you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.