2802: The State of the Hormone & Peptide Industry w/ Vita Bella Founder Phil Vella

Summary

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Mind Pump Ep. 2802: The State of the Hormone & Peptide Industry w/ Vita Bella Founder Phil Vella

Episode Theme:
A deep dive into the hormone and peptide industry with Phil Vella, founder of Vita Bella. The Mind Pump crew examines the industry’s truth, quality control pitfalls, pricing myths, legal challenges, prescription guidance, and the future of peptide medicine with rare transparency.

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1. Episode Overview

• Main Purpose:
  To expose the realities and evolving landscape of the hormone and peptide industry—from gray markets to pharma-level practices—with candid discussion about quality, pricing, legislation, and patient care. Phil Vella shares inside knowledge as an industry disruptor and entrepreneur, including stories of transformation and ethical dilemmas facing the field.

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2. Guest Introduction & Background

[02:20] Phil Vella's Story

• CEO of Vita Bella Health, operating in 40 states, offering peptides, hormones, and broad wellness.
• Formerly a major player in tech (employee #1 in Cisco Software division) before pivoting to healthcare entrepreneurship.
• Inspired by his daughter's perspective on "the best job in the world" connected to saving lives.
• Personal history: recovered rapidly from spinal fusion via peptides, became motivated to disrupt gouging in the space.

Memorable Quote:

"It's fucking narcissism. I did that. His life would have never been the same. He's 300 pounds, now he's 210 shredded, picking up girls, amazing business, making 500 grand a month."
— Phil Vella [04:13]

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3. The State of the Industry: Quality, Regulation & Pricing

Legal & Regulatory Headaches

[03:41], [09:45]

• Legislation constantly changes by state. Frequent headaches akin to "medical marijuana days."
• Barriers to entry (licenses, DEA paperwork) remain extreme, but once cleared, allow for lucrative, lasting business.

[10:01-11:51] The Gray Market

• The FDA is cracking down on companies selling 'research grade' peptides not meant for human consumption but widely marketed as such.
• Danger: No medical guidance, no lab oversight, often catastrophic patient outcomes (e.g., organ growth, incorrect dosing).

Memorable Quote:

"How can you...tell them what they should be doing when you haven't seen their labs, you don't know their health history and you know nothing about them?"
— Phil Vella [11:44]

Quality Control Data

[12:09-13:15]

• Vita Bella tested multiple gray market peptides:
  • Some are genuine, others have mislabeling issues; four out of tested samples were "not known" substances.
  • Purity levels vary wildly (23% to 120%), with potential serious health risks for buyers.

Price Transparency & Markups

[13:58-15:28]

• True cost to clinics: $70-90/vial for high-quality sarms/peptides, typically sold around $190 (“making money, not gouging”).
• Some competitors charge up to $1,100.
• Markups justified by malpractice insurance, licensing for each state, and high operating costs.

Notable Breakdown:

• Medical licensing: $30-$40k per practitioner for multi-state operations; licensure and compliance are significant barriers.
• Costs explained candidly (see [14:16-15:28]).

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4. Business Model Innovations

Membership Model

[08:06-09:45], [30:12-34:15]

• Vita Bella follows an enterprise SaaS-style subscription for healthcare:
  • $129/month gets you:
    • All quarterly doctor visits
    • Access to doctors, injectable supplies
    • Injectable testosterone, enclomiphene, or B12 included at max dose
    • Access to weight loss, peptide, and hormone therapies at near-wholesale pricing
• Only one tier, no complicated upcharges; a la carte for extras.
• No salespeople—just one-on-one with real doctors.

Quote:

"We built the company 100% mimicked off an enterprise license agreement in tech... How do I make like a SaaS instead of a healthcare as a service company?"
— Phil Vella [08:06]

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5. The Fall of Transcend & Impact on Patients

[16:31-19:38]

• Transcend, a major provider, collapsed due to overcharging and poor management—owed partners money, couldn't refund clients, lost medical oversight.
• Massive patient vacuum; Vita Bella has grown 300% by onboarding Transcend’s abandoned clients at a fraction of the price.

Notable Story:

"Three months of Tessa Moreland is $5,000. With us, it's $900. And I'm making money at $900!"
— Phil Vella [18:08]

• Mind Pump's own audience/community of 20,000 left hanging by the fallout.
• Discussion of the challenge and responsibility of partnering with providers in a volatile space.

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6. Service Philosophy & Medical Guidance

[22:34-24:29]

• Vita Bella enforces a 45-minute medical consult with each patient—emphasis on education, not just sales.
• Critique of the industry norm: short, rushed doctor calls, upselling without patient understanding.

Quote:

"Doctors have become so quick to prescribe shit medicine. And more importantly, how many times...you don't even know why you're taking something."
— Phil Vella [23:17]

• Slow expansion, focus on customer service and results over sheer volume.

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7. State-by-State Limitations

[26:35-29:39]

• Currently active in 40 states; heavy legal hurdles keep Vita Bella out of California, Hawaii, Alaska, New Jersey, Kansas.
• Each state may require separate legal entities/licensing, driving cost and complexity.

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8. Peptides, Big Pharma, and the Future

FDA, Big Pharma & Compounding

[34:15-36:39]

• Ongoing lawsuits between compounding pharmacies and pharma giants (e.g., Strive Pharmacy vs. Eli Lilly); industry-defining legal precedent allowing compounding of drugs like tirzepatide/semaglutide.
• Prediction: Pharma will try to own market with proprietary versions, but compounding remains strong for now.

Memorable Quote:

"I think they're going to not only find their own lines, they're going to make this insurable."
— Phil Vella [46:39]

Guidance on GLP-1s (Weight Loss/Obesity)

[38:02-43:44]

• GLP-1s (e.g., Ozempic, tirzepatide):
  • Should never be prescribed alone—pair with testosterone or GHRHs to prevent muscle loss.
  • Rampant overprescription and misguidance; actual optimal dosing is patient-specific, often much lower than prescribed.
• Massive impact: Snack companies losing money, airlines reviewing weight limits, potential long-term impacts on Social Security due to increased longevity.

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9. Clinical Insights: Safe, Effective Peptide Use

Safety & Personalization

[41:38-43:33]

• "Medicine's 50% art, 50% science"—even identical twins respond differently, so individualization is key.
• Dangers of influencer-led, cookie-cutter advice; crucial to monitor labs, titrate dosages personally.

Rapid-Fire Protocol Picks

[72:12-73:33]
Phil's answers to "best in class" for common goals:

• Gut Healing: BPC/PDA
• Joint Pain/Inflammation: Same + glutathione
• Fat Loss: Tirzepatide
• Muscle Recovery: CJC/Ipamorelin
• Anti-Aging/Skin/Hair: GHK-Cu
• Libido: PT-141, plus new proprietary drugs
• Brain/Cognition: NAD, CMAX, L-ank, SS31, 5-Amino-1MQ
• Injury Repair: PDA, TB-500, nandrolone, testosterone

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10. Ethical Stance & “Legacy First” Mindset

[59:12-60:57]

• Vita Bella & Phil prioritizing legacy over money, not printing cash at patients’ expense.
• Willing to halt business if quality/support drop, a rarity in the industry.

Quote:

"I didn’t build this business for money. I built it for legacy. I built it to change people's lives."
— Phil Vella [59:41]

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11. Industry Trends, Myths & Misconceptions

Research-Grade Peptides: Dangerous & Oversold

[10:01-13:39], [61:14-62:46]

• Peter Attia quote was manipulated—he’s against unregulated peptides, but supports clinical use.
• Vast majority of “revolutionary” claims from influencers are dubious—true benefit requires medical oversight and context.

Real-World Experiences with Peptides

[63:08-68:10]

• Hosts and Phil share personal trials with:
  • BPC, MOTS-C, Sloop, thymosin-beta for injuries and well-being
  • Acknowledgement that effects are highly individual; some feel dramatic benefits, others little at all.

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12. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Industry Greed:

  "We make them expensive because of greedy, egotistical capitalist pig fucks..."
  — Phil Vella [13:39]

• On Education & Customization:

  “We force you to spend 45 minutes with the doc... when you leave, you’re empowered.”
  — Phil Vella [22:34]

• On the Future Regulation:

  “There will be a revolution like we've never seen before. It's the first time ever that people have preventative control of their health.”
  — Phil Vella [46:01]

• On combining GLP-1s:

  “It should be illegal to prescribe GLP-1s by themselves.”
  — Phil Vella [38:02]

• On Pharmacy Lawsuits:

  “Thank God for compounding pharmacies.”
  — Quote from court ruling, related by Phil [52:35]

• On Business Ethics:

  “I can pause my business if quality drops. No one else can—or is willing—to do that.”
  — Phil Vella [60:57]

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13. Timestamps for Must-Listen Segments

• [02:20] – Phil’s origin story: Tech to peptides
• [09:45] – FDA action against gray market peptides; dangers of "not for human consumption" products
• [12:09] – Third-party quality tests reveal what’s really in gray market vials
• [13:58] – Truth about product markups: pharmacy cost vs retail pricing
• [16:31] – Transcend collapse: How a major provider left patients in limbo
• [22:34] – Why Vita Bella forces 45-minute doctor consults for every client
• [30:12] – Vita Bella’s unique all-in pricing and membership model
• [34:15] – SaaS as a model for health: building for exit, predicting revenue
• [36:39] – Strive Pharmacy lawsuits, compounding’s future
• [38:02] – Why GLP-1s should never be solo; the real risks in weight loss countryside
• [41:38] – Medicine as art vs science; identical twins case study
• [46:39] – Why pharma is pivoting to make peptides insurable
• [54:53] – Impact of weight-loss revolution on entire US industries
• [72:12-73:33] – Phil’s “best for” peptide protocol rapid fire

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14. Closing Thoughts

The episode is a treasure trove for those interested in the real business, medical, and ethical terrain of cutting-edge hormone and peptide therapies. From jaw-dropping price exposes to personal transformation stories—and real talk about the responsibilities and risks for patients—Phil Vella and Mind Pump deliver candid, actionable raw fitness truth.

Key Takeaway:
Get your advice—and your peptides—from educated, transparent, and service-focused clinicians. The future of the industry will be shaped by those who combine ethics, science, individualized care, and business savvy.

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Transcript

[A]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[B]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[C]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer

[A]

and Justin Andrews, you just found the

[B]

most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today we head on Phil Vella. He runs a company, a hormone and peptide company called Vitabella. And he reveals the truth about that entire industry. It's going to blow your mind. The overcharge that they do for peptides is wild. The quality control, terrible. This guy owns a company, breaks it down with full disclosure. He's honest about the whole thing. In fact, we partnered with him. That's how much we liked him. So we know you're going to love this episode. It'll blow your mind anyway. If you're interested in hormone therapy, peptide therapy, you want the best prices. You don't want to work with salespeople. You only want to work with doctors. Go with them. Go to mphormones.com that's where you get hooked up. Now this episode is brought to you by our sponsor, Kion. They make athletic supplements that are clean and effective. Clean because they're third party tested. Effective because they only use ingredients that have been shown in studies to make a difference. This is a great place to buy creatine, a great place to buy essential amino acids and more. And if you go through our link, you'll get 20% off. Go to getkeown.com mindpump that's G-E-T-K-I-O-N.com mindpump Also, we also have a brand new program launch. And because it's a new launch, it's half off maps grade eight. One lift a day only. Eight exercises. Simple, basic, super effective, 50% off. Plus we're going to throw in the Great Eight Nutrition Guide. If you sign up within the launch period, which is right now. Go to mapsgreat8.com that's mapsgreatnumber8.com use the code launch that gives you 50% off plus the free nutrition guide. Alright, real quick.

[C]

If you love us like we love

[D]

you, why not show up by rocking

[B]

one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now.

[C]

Hit pause, head on over tomy pump store.com.

[D]

that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[B]

Phil, I'm glad you're here, dude.

[C]

Yeah, I'm glad we got you here, dude.

[B]

Yeah. Awesome. How you doing?

[C]

I'm doing good, man.

[B]

Good so, all right, short intro. Tell people who you are, what you do, because we met, I met you the first time we were at the Peptide Congress. Yeah, that's when we ran into each other and, you know, we hit it off a little bit. So what do you do?

[C]

So I'm the CEO of Vita Bella Health. We're a 40 state health and wellness company. Peptides, hormones, everything. We're the disruptor in the industry. I've got a bunch of other businesses that I own, but by far this is the sexiest and the funnest thing that I've ever done in my life.

[D]

That's, that's crazy for me to hear that because it reminds me a little bit of what it was like for medical marijuana days. I don't know if you remember when that hit. I was a part of that. And it's like every, every week, new legislation, different state laws. You got big pharma trying to lobby against you, and so it feels like it would be a shitstorm to try and run. So explain the excitement or the attitude that you have towards that because it gave me a headache.

[C]

I'll just say it straight, as, if I could do any other business again, it wouldn't be this business. Okay, okay, let me be very clear. It wouldn't be this business. However, now that I've already done it and I'm in it and I've got all the licenses, the DEA's, the stupid amount of paperwork, all the red tape to get through and be successful, it's that hard to do it. So it's that easy to succeed once you've done it.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[C]

It's so hard to penetrate and understand all of these laws. It really is. And every day you're right. Peptide laws change. And all of a sudden you're like, yeah, you can't ship in clomiphene just to the state of Colorado. Now it's this one. You're like, you can't advertise Viagra in South Carolina, but everything else is okay. And so the laws change on a consistent basis. They're going to continue to change the pharmacopoeia, everybody but the excitement comes from truly the text messages that I get of people like, dude, you don't understand. You don't understand. She said yes.

[B]

Do you understand?

[C]

I got a promotion. The energy, my kids, my parents like the feedback that I get from patients. It's addict. It is. I tell people this, it's fucking narcissism. It is, it's fucking, it's narcissism. I'm just like, I did that, I did that. His life would have never been the same. So, like, he's on a trajectory. He's 300 pounds. All of a sudden he's 210 shredded. No girl ever talked to him in his life. Now the guy's walking out. Picking up girls, has an amazing business. I mean, I told this story the other day, this one of our patients. Guy was broke, couldn't afford his meds. Now he's making like 500 grand a month.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Killing the game. Guy's got a baby on the way, a fiance that it would have been impossible to get back in the day.

[D]

But yeah, I mean, it's so you're obviously a serial entrepreneur. Give me a little bit of a rundown of what, what you did kind of before and then, and then what got you to dip into this space?

[C]

I've always been in tech. You know, welcome home. In San Jose, I was the godfather of Cisco Software division employee number one. No way. Really? Yes. No kidding. Yeah, I went in $0. And when I first started the division, and I left at about 5.5 billion in 2019, today the division's doing about 22 billion. So that's where I first came up. I know everybody really well here. Chuck Robbins, who's the current CEO, he did my engagement. John Chambers did my engagement. I know all the boys at Cisco. Yeah, I came up in tech. And prior to that I had tech companies, but I came in through tech to Cisco through a WebEx acquisition in 2007. Crushed it at Cisco. 2019, became a full time single dad and walked in, shucked my computer. And I'm like, I don't know what God has planned for me, but she's not going to grow up with a nanny. And that's what happened. And then my daughter sat me down one day. Her name's Mia Bella. My beautiful. And I said, what's the greatest job in the world? And she says, it's a doctor, Daddy. And I was like, well, the hell with me going to medical school, so

[B]

that's not going to happen.

[C]

She goes, they save lives. And I'm like, yeah, that's great. We're not saving lives. Then I don't know what you want me to tell you, but we went through and. And I thought to myself, I had double spinal fusion. The doctor said 12 months to recover. I needed to be back in 90 days. Growth hormone peptides, everything. He charged me crazy amounts of money, 22 grand, by the way, per month for the meds. Found out it was 2200 and I'm like, fuck off, there's no way. And so I spent a lot of money putting that man out of business. So my daughter and me sat down one day and I was like, daddy wants to go have doctors work for him. And she goes, that's even cooler. You mean to tell me we get to tell them who lives and who dies? This is amazing. I'm like, not exactly, but kind of. And she's like, let's do it. So Vita bella means beautiful life. My beautiful, my daughter or beautiful life. Life is beautiful. And my daughter's like, let's, let's call a vita bella. And and so that's how we got into this particular space. But getting transitioning, when you're at Cisco doing so many different businesses, I had so many different businesses to see and look at. I got into restaurant industry, I got into AI industries, I got into software marketing, automation industries as investors, operators. Then I realized I don't want to operate or do that. But this industry, the reward is like psychotic.

[D]

What, what skills do you think that you picked up from the other businesses that are most applicable to this one? Like what it like obviously Cisco, you see all these different businesses, lots of them probably look very different. Tech is, you think is very different than Peptide Space, but obviously you did, you picked up enough to go do very well at this. What, what skills do you think apply the most that you picked up? What were they?

[C]

Well, the first thing is we built the company 100% mimicked off of an enterprise license agreement in tech.

[D]

Okay, explain that.

[C]

Yeah, so enterprise license agreements is like Microsoft, they sell you OCS365. So you get, you know, word, you get your Excel, you get notes, you get everything that's included with ocs, email, all of it. So I thought to myself, how do I make like a SaaS instead of has healthcare as a service company? And that's what Vitabella is, it's a service, it's a membership driven company very similar to like a software. As a service company, you pay your monthly fee, you get access to your doctors, you get free injectable supplies, you get to treat all eight categories, hormones, all the way down to skincare. So we have everything that there's nothing excluded. If it treats narcissism, confidence, self esteem or ego, we prescribe it, literally what

[B]

it is, all things.

[C]

If you have any sickness whatsoever, please find, find another company.

[D]

Were you the first to do that in this space, to disrupt it like that? Did you, did anybody, Was anybody Else doing like a membership base like that.

[C]

Hone did a membership base, but it was like testosterone and like one other thing, but to do everything. First of all, we're still the only company that does what we do. Eight categories of treatment.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

No one, no one even has skin care. Like you've got hims hair loss. They've got, you know, sexual wellness.

[D]

They focus on one little.

[C]

Yeah. And so I'm like, by the way, it's not the smartest thing to do. Let me be very clear. For those that are thinking about this, going this broad is very hard because you're a jack of many trades instead of a master of one specifically, it's a little easier. But give people choice, give people options.

[B]

What's happened recently in this peptide space where the gray market, the research chemicals, they're selling out, they're trying to get out because something is coming along the pipelines that says you guys can't do that anymore. It has to be through prescription. What happened?

[C]

The FDA has patiently watched all of these companies market research grade peptides to humans for human consumption. So on the bottles, it specifically says not for human consumption.

[B]

But we know who they're selling.

[C]

We know who they're selling to. It literally says in the ads, the emails, the Jay Campbells, the peptide sciences, Swiss chems, you can see it all. It's black and white. The problem is there's thousands of CDC cases of people getting very bad side effects. You're not under guidance. You have no medic. They're not looking at labs. You're looking at the catastrophic damage that's being done to specific individuals that do not know what these things do because quite frankly, they're uneducated in the market. We've seen people come in that are using GHRHs and GHRPs with PSAs of 20.

[B]

So those are growth hormone boosting peptides when they have a high. They got prostate enlargement and stuff going on there. Which if you had a PSA of 20, it's like, we got to check you for cancer.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

The last thing you would do is boost growth hormone if you have cancer.

[C]

100%. Okay. Yeah. I mean, so you're prescribing medications to people and they're taking dosages that no one has any idea. No one has any idea what they're actually taking and what the correct dose is. I mean, we've seen. It's sick. What we've. It's sick. And I'm like. And the guy goes, you know, I'm feeling like my Stomach. Like my stomach. I've got a six pack. But now it's growing. Because your organs are growing, pal. Your organs are growing. You've got cardiomyopathy. You're literally not under guidance. Like how. And I said this on every podcast I've been on. How can you literally look directly in somebody's face or get on the phone with them and tell them what they should be doing when you haven't seen their labs, you don't know their health history and you know nothing about them?

[B]

It's impossible.

[C]

And by the way, how do you feel good about yourself?

[B]

You and I text each other every once in a while and you were like, just wait till I show you some of the test results of these gray market. So I've been waiting. I didn't ask you. So what'd you guys do? Did you guys go and grab a bunch of gray markets and test it? What'd you find?

[C]

So we took a whole bunch of peptides. And by the way, there's some good ones. I'm not gonna lie, there's some good ones. What I'm realizing is, what I'm realizing is these companies are getting it from the same source. So if Reddit Truetide tests perfectly on one, it's gonna test perfectly on most of them.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

However, there are certain meds that people mislabel. So because they're getting them in clear vials, so you have to label them. So now you don't have any QC quality control. Meaning like your BPC150 could be KPV, could be CJC. You don't know because they're just wrapping a label on site. What if they mix the box? What if they take that box, put it on another area? So four of the peptides that we tested, we don't even know what it is inside of them. So it came back NK or. Yeah, nk. Not known.

[B]

So it said something you tested for

[C]

that we don't even know what's inside. Yeah. And then the purities all over the map, NAD at 23%, 78%, 91, all one of them. 120% of what it said was supposed to be inside. So it's like 120 milligrams per. And you're like, what?

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And so listen, the cost of quality peptides, the cost of real pharmaceutical licensed inspected pharmacies that are prescribing but like, like Vitabella, they're not expensive. We make them expensive because of greedy, egotistical capitalist pig fucks

[B]

just to like that. So hold on a second. So because they're always saying, look, research chemical, you know, research chemical grade peptides, you'll save money because the stuff that comes out of the FDA approved labs so expensive. Or pharma too expensive. And you're saying that's not true. They're just marking them up like crazy.

[C]

What's it really cost? What's it cost to get some Orland direct to the consumer? So I'll talk some prices here. Maybe it costs some Moreland for a bottle. 70, 80 bucks direct from the pharmacy. To me. To me. Right. I'm going to be very. This is going to be the most transparent stuff. I don't know. These cameras are. It's the most transparent conversation you're going to have today.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Is let's say it cost me 70 bucks, 80 bucks, 90 bucks. I'll charge 190. Okay, 190 bucks. I'm making money. But then you go to other companies, which I know of, they're in Scottsdale. Oof. I want to call them out so bad. So you got other companies that are charging $1,100 for Samorlin and then they're giving you. By the way.

[B]

So their margin is 80 to 1100.

[C]

And by the way, I'm talking about a 15 milligram vial of Samorlin, not 2. 15. Yeah, I'm selling 15 milligram vials because they're not that expensive. And all those people that want to come and they're going to be like, oh, but you're still price gouging, making money. How fucking expensive do you think it is to be successful in this industry? I've got medical insurance, malpractice insurance. I've got EMR systems, portals, shit, tons of documents. DEAs. Licensing. Medical licensing in every single state is horrifically expensive. Each one of my providers, if I want to get them licensed in every single state, all in, thank God we're getting a little DEA help right now because you only need one DEA right now. But when you needed all the DEAs, it's $888 per DEA per state for one single doctor or one single nurse practitioner.

[B]

So hold on, so that's 880 times 50, 40 grand per person.

[C]

Per person. Right. That's what it used to be. Now it's just 888. But then you look at all the medical licensing. 30 to 40 grand per practitioner. If they want to be licensed in every state, that's just licensing.

[B]

And how many patients would one practitioner be able to Work with you figure

[C]

if they can, maybe a thousand ish.

[B]

Okay. So you try to grow your company, you're going to have to add.

[C]

I have a ton. I just hired another 20 due to the fund that I think we'll be talking about very shortly. All right, let's get the cat out of it.

[B]

Let's go there for a second. So what's going on? So we worked.

[D]

I've had so many of these conversations and everybody's been thanking us.

[B]

So we.

[C]

So are.

[B]

We worked with Transcend for a little while. They were one of the larger providers of peptides at home hormones. And I'm not going to go into details, but let's just say they owe us a lot of money and they

[C]

owe everyone they screwed.

[B]

They did. They did some bad stuff. Some really bad stuff. Lots of complaints coming, all that stuff. What, what, what, what happened? What's, what's happening with the industry and what's this like? That's a big. That's a big vacuum. They were a big company. Big vacuum.

[C]

Transcend, I think, was one of the staples in the industry. They also were the largest overcharging company in the world. I've never seen prices like what they charge. They had salespeople that literally sold. We don't have one salesperson in my company doesn't exist. It's you and the doctor. If you and the doctor don't decide on it, we're not pushing you meds, period. It's you. So what happened was, is a couple things. One, they screwed over their pharmacy, so they lost, revive and some other things, owing them millions of dollars. And the second thing is they lost their. What's called the PC Group owner. For people who don't understand, it's the doctors. Right. So Transcend is an mso, which is a services organization. And then the medical group, the main doctor, won a lawsuit against Transcend to where Transcend couldn't contact patients anymore or do anything like that. And by the way, this is all public knowledge. It's all out on the web. You guys can look up the cases. So Transcend essentially can't even fulfill pharmacy. They can't refund, they can't do anything. They can't talk to people right now.

[B]

That's why they're ghosting everybody.

[C]

That's why they're ghosting everybody. Correct. And so it is fucking Christmas every day for people like us in this industry is Transcend had so many patients, so many patients that didn't even know what they were paying, by the way. And so I hired a number of the Transcend people. We got them down from Michigan down to Arizona, and we are onboarding a number of patients. By the way, my company has grown 300% in the last few weeks. Whoa. And so we just.

[B]

No wonder you're smiling so blah.

[C]

So we are. And the patients are coming in, and literally, these are. I have so many cool things. I'll give you guys some of this content so you guys can, like, post like. These are, like, real text messages. We'll redact the names. And they're like, yeah. So I'm paying $5,000 a quarter for my Tessa Moreland treatment. One more time. Three months of Tessa Moreland is $5,000. Yeah. And he's like, how much is gonna be with you guys? Because I don't want to. I want to keep the pricing the same. I was like, unfortunately, it's 900. We're not gonna be able to get to the $5,000 mark. And so. And by the way, I'm making money at 900. But. But why. Why do you need to overcharge? Why do you need to do these things? It was crazy. But the big things with Transcend is I think they had the best education group. I'm gonna give it to them. Like, the customers that come to us and patients, they're educated because they're sales people.

[D]

Well, it's because they've been listening to

[C]

a podcast for two years, you guys, for forever.

[D]

Who's been teaching them all about peptides for a long time. So they come in educated.

[C]

So literally, I just get on the phone and they're like, yeah, I'll take bpc. I'll take Tessa Moreland. I'll take cjc. I want to do a tri blend. Give me some different. That's like. And it's such. And I'm like, the average spend per patient is 220% up with new patients. And it's been the greatest thing that's ever happened to my company. And one, I couldn't be more thankful to all of you guys. I know they owe you guys money. I'm sure that we can figure out something for me to take over.

[B]

We're more.

[D]

I think we're more.

[B]

I was waiting for this.

[C]

Less about five negotiations, by the way,

[D]

less about the money. And the thing that, you know, I've had. I think I'm up to 13 or 14 calls with other companies that have all been in bidding wars. And for me, it's. It's less. It's a black eye for Us, you know, we built this not with the intent to sell peptides supplements or anything else like that. Like, we're. We're the business of training clients, helping them with nutrition, getting them in good shape, changing their behaviors, healthy foods, that type of stuff. And yes, we have a large audience that loves all those things. And so it made sense to look for a company to partner with. But it. Man, we. They. All those people have been dumped onto our. I mean I've got a forum that's got 20,000 peptide users in it of our people. 20,000 that they just left out hanging that are just. That are furious at us, you know, and they have no idea how much money they owe us and how screwed we got out of the deal. And it's like, I mean, I'd love to. To refund all you people. I. I go bankrupt refunding all of you guys on what they owe you. And so for me, it's like I'm so hesitant and I. And I also come from the medical marijuana space. So I did that for three years. And I know how difficult is. A lot of patients don't know. They don't know the stress that you have to go through when legislation changed or now you can't do this. It's like that delay sometimes prescriptions or so that. And then people get. And they don't get mad at you guys to get mad at us because we're the ones who introduce that. And so that's. It's been a massive headache for us. And I go back and forth on do I even want to f. With it? Because it's like to risk another black eye on our company when that's not what we do. Although I recognize that there's a massive amount of people that it changes their lives. And I use hormone replacement therapy and have for 15 plus years and know what it's been for me. And so yeah, it's like this. It's an unfortunate challenge and position that we've been put in and I'm not sure how we solve it yet. And so we've been really slow to decide on what we're gonna do because there's not a lot.

[C]

I think you should hurry up. This is not. This is not an IQ test with the right company. Very simple. No, I.

[D]

There's so many bad actors in the space, which that's. It also reminds me of. And, and can you agree or not?

[C]

I mean, I think that's a. Bad actors. That's a very kind of you. Yeah, bad actors is very kind. I Think there's pigs. They are. There's people that are more worried about money. That's the one thing that's cool is I don't give a about Money. I'll wear 20 T shirts and swim sweaters all day long. I made the money. I worked at Cisco. I did the. I did the. The thing. And now it's like my legacy to give back. I think one of the cool things about Vita Bella and I'm gonna screw myself by saying this live on here because I know some jag off Karen's gonna ruin this for me. But since we've opened the company, since the founding of the company, we're a 105 star reviewed company. We don't have a single four star review.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

One period fact. And so another thing is everybody is quick to onboard you. Right. They want to just get your money, they want to sell you. They want to get you in front of a doctor and spend like 5, 10 minutes with you and get you what you want, because that's what you want. Order. And we force you to spend 45 minutes with the doc, go through everything, really understand everything about yourself so that when you leave that phone call and you leave that conversation that you're empowered. You truly understand what you're getting. And I think that's where we've lost medicine is one. Doctors have become so quick to prescribe shit medicine. And more importantly, how many times we asked it that you don't even know why you're taking something.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So you don't. You just take this. Take this pill once a day. Okay. And it'll make me feel better. No one. No mechanism, no what it does, no explanation. No education. Right. They don't have this for the normal, when you're sick kind of group. Right. There's no three guys sitting there. Let me tell you about what you know that a Z pack does. Like, there's no one doing that. So it's. There's bad actors everywhere. I think that there are a lot of good people though too. Yeah.

[D]

Did Sal tell you the story on how we got to transcend how that happened?

[C]

It didn't.

[D]

So we originally started with Dr. Rand and his team.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And a lot of respect for Regenerative. Yeah, regenerative. And they're a brick and mortar, though. They're a small brick and mortar. And that was the experience we had. Like the. Every patient saw a doctor and got a meeting.

[B]

Excellent.

[D]

Problem was because they were a small brick and mortar operation, they couldn't handle our volume. So again, I was getting all these complaints of I can't get an appointment for 30 days. You know, it's like, and, and, but the service was amazing. Anyone who did get in was just like, oh my God, their team was so great. They walked me through everything. Feel really like they weren't getting oversold. It was just amazing. And so we, the original problem we were trying to solve was not about the service side. It was now like, who can handle our volume?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And so I began hunting for okay, who, who can handle our size. And at that time I didn't know anybody else besides Transcend that could handle our sales volume. And so I was like, okay, let's do it. And it started off pretty good. We had a forum, we were, we were making their doctor come in every single week and educate our audience that we were building and growing. And so the first year or so when they were making hay and everything was great, it was not so bad. But then it quickly went downhill. It quickly turned into looked like a greedy thing of just selling them. No follow up, no teaching them how to use it. No, it was just a mill they were turning. And so we got in this predicament of like we've had what amazing service is like and I know how important that is. But then we're also at the size where it's like we can't just go with a mon PA who's gonna handhold every single person or they need to be at a size where they can talk to that many patients.

[C]

I think there's a blend where you can do both. Right? And I don't even think, I don't think you need to have VIP programs or any of that shit. I think you want that, go to Peter Attia, go to one of those guys, right? Pay your 100 grand. You want that type of service, pay for it. But if you're looking for really good service, really good prices, there's good companies out there that do it. I just think that they don't spend enough time actually caring about cs. Coming from Cisco, we were paid on CSI Customer Success Index. And so we need to make sure that people are happy. And you guys, by the way, on any company you guys go to, that's the true indication of success is are people happy? Because they're not going to leave you, by the way. No one leaves you really for price. And if they do let them go, they leave you for two things. Results. Are they getting the results that they want? And when they call or email, do you pick up the phone? That's it. It's not hard to be successful. It's results and service. Are they getting their meds in a reasonable amount of time? We ship when? The minute you get off the phone. Our average ship time is 48 to 72 hours the front door.

[B]

Wow. All 50 states. 40, 40 states.

[C]

I can't do business in California. I can't.

[B]

I can't really. There's no.

[C]

I. I can't do it.

[B]

This is the worst.

[C]

It is the most. Talk about laws. I'm out. I quit. It's in my bylaws. Someone's going to have to redo my entire operating agreement.

[B]

Does that mean you don't service in California or do they have to mail to another place?

[C]

Do not the state of California. Okay, yeah, I may turn it on. I've been very big ego of anti. I have such bad experience with the state. And it's just the legal system. Right. You know, you show up and I always say every day it's not an IQ test. It's an IQ test in California. It is.

[D]

Well, it's a smart. It's a smart strategy on your part going back to. If your metric is customer service and you know all the loopholes you have to go through in California and what a it is you're gonna. And someone else might be going that's crazy. That's so much volume you're losing. But it's like, yeah, but I'm gonna have so many headaches and so many disgruntled patients that have no idea that it's not my fault. It's all this bullshit loopholes that I have to do. And so it's probably. Yeah.

[B]

We had to get. Because we live in California, obviously they would ship our stuff to a mailbox in Florida that would. Then we would forward all the way over here.

[C]

Yeah. And one illegal as shit. But anyways, it's not that I don't want to do business. I don't want to do that. I don't want to suffer. I don't want patients to suffer. Why do you need to go and then you have to set up that mailbox. You have to do all those additional loopholes. Why there's so much damn business in this country. Let someone else deal with that headache. And they can specialize in headaches. And the people who specialize in headaches make good money.

[D]

So what are the other ones? So you 40. So there's. What are the other states besides California

[C]

that are Hawaii, Alaska, New Jersey, Kansas. Any. You know, they have CPOMs need to have Separate, you know, California requires a whole separate operating agreement. Whole separate company. Same thing with New Jersey. Whole separate company. Same thing with Kansas.

[B]

So you'd have to start a whole another company over here.

[C]

It needs to be an entirely separate company. There's three states that require that and then a couple of states that I'm just like, the volume is not there.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And this is probably the only one

[D]

that you would consider maybe building an operation over here.

[C]

It's the fourth largest economy in the world. It's stupid of me to stay away from it. However, from an anxiety, sleeping really good at night and feeling amazing. Like when I wake up in the morning, we score California amazing. I feel good about it.

[B]

We run a business here. We know exactly what we're talking about.

[C]

So then the laws, I mean, it's been rough. It's crazy. So I love. By the way, I did business here for the better half of my life. And if I turned on California, me being Cisco royalty from back, I would have a triple. I probably 10x the company. But I'm not ready. I'm not ready to deal with laws yet. I'm not ready to deal with California yet. I will literally open up a separate team to own and operate because I'm gonna need a separate pharmacy. So you can ship to California. You just need a separate pharmacy that's in California.

[B]

Got it.

[C]

There's a lot of little things that you need to do. And we've got it. I've got. Great guy. I was just on a podcast, Rick Nemi shot off for God's economy. And he was. He's got a pharmacy here. And he's like, what do you want me to do? And I'm like, I'm not ready. But when I'm ready, I will. Absolutely. I'll absolutely turn it on. And so I think. And it's in discussion every day because it is. It's a big economy for us. But maybe in Q3 or Q4.

[D]

So explain to me because I vaguely know the model.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And I love that you're like a disruptor in the space because I think I think of ourselves as disruptors. How does the. How do the different tiers of memberships work and what comes with that?

[C]

Yeah, it's a great question. One damn tier of membership. Oh, that's it. 1. 129 bucks.

[D]

Wait, hold on. That can't cover skin fit.

[C]

Just watch. I got you. Okay, watch this.

[D]

Here we go.

[C]

129 bucks a month.

[B]

I'm right.

[D]

Can't wait for this.

[C]

Close one. Hundred twenty nine bucks. I'm going to give it to you straight, right, ladies and gentlemen. So 129 bucks a month you only pay for your first doctor's Visit, which is $99. 45 minute consult, 15 minutes, they review your labs, 15 minutes, they go over health history and goals. The last 15 minutes, they build a custom protocol. Okay. If you have labs in the last six months and they've got everything we need, we can use them.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[C]

If you don't have labs, 250, get ready. No, we give you a full eleven hundred dollar Quest diagnostics 34 biomarker panel for 89 bucks.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

If you want to upgrade to full comprehensive, $189, that's getting you everything from your IGF1 levels, D everything. So you get that with us and then what do you get? $129 a month. You get all of your ongoing quarterly doctor's visits included. You get your choice included in the package for 129 bucks of injectable testosterone, sipionate up to max dose, enclomiphene up to max dose, or B12 up to max dose. Weekly injections shipped automatic to your house.

[B]

So that comes with it.

[C]

Comes with it for 129. You get your testosterone included. 129. But here's where the clincher is. So you get the testosterone, you get everything. And by the way, we just did this. We just started and added in the meds recently. Prior to that, no meds included. What do you get? You get your doc visits and then you get access to our war chest of medication when you're on the phone with the docs at wholesale pricing. And you get to treat everything from weight loss, hormone therapy, peptide therapy, skin care, anti aging, injury and recovery, hair loss, you name it. The plethora gambit of narcissism and self esteem. Okay. And your meds get shipped to your front door. 48, 72 hours, 24 hours a day, six day a week, clinical care team and at all times. We're online. Sunday is a day of God. He rested and so do we.

[D]

So, okay, so okay, let me get this clear then. So 129 is get takes care of like which is takes care of me. That's what I need to take. Yeah, but let's say I decide that I want to. I need BBC. I need something else. So then is it all a cart? Is that.

[C]

It's all a la carte. Non subscription.

[D]

Okay, you get the pick.

[C]

We've got a patient portal you can go on and click refill. Click Request Meds V. Very clean, very intuitive. Come from tech. It should be good. But yeah, you just go on and click what you want. We don't do BPC anymore. We moved over to pda. Yeah, but yeah, I mean there's, it's very simple.

[D]

It's just a precursor to that.

[B]

Right?

[D]

No, PDA is great.

[C]

This is great for the pod. So pda, we replace btc, Pentadeca. Pentadec Arginate.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's the same thing. It's just attached to a different 15.

[C]

Yeah, it's the same 15 chain amino acid, extra subarginate at the end. I said acetate. And all the studies have shown better absorption, better half life, better everything and patients have loved it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've used, I've used. Wow, that sounds. So what's cool about that? Because one of the things about this space is like what's going to happen in the future? Even though it's, it's prescription peptides, the FDA and big pharma seem to be, they don't like the compound pharmacies. They don't like the compound pharmacies because they want their brand name, they want to be able to control things. And this all of course, with the popularity, in my opinion, with the popularity of GLP1s, this really pissed them off that, you know, you go buy Ozempic, it costs this much, but you can go get some aglutide from a compound pharmacy for much less. But the way you've set up your company, it's very easy for you to sell this at some point because you've got monthly reoccurring revenue. Yeah.

[C]

SaaS based business.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. Is that so, so you've actually got an exit potentially. Whereas a lot of these other companies, I'm like, how are you guys gonna move? What are you gonna show?

[C]

I'm a businessman.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Absolutely. I'm a businessman at heart.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And, and it is absolutely built for you to show your EBITDA and for you to show your growth and for you to have predictable revenue. It also allows me to continue to offer our price points. The way that we do is because I can predict revenue, which allows me to predict on the operating expenses I can grow. So I do not outgrow my membership just in basic opex. So I'll never have the problems at these other companies when they, you know, when you get slow seasons, when you go into summer, people aren't ordering enough, then you're going into like. Cause you get seasons within this industry.

[B]

Yours is consistent.

[C]

I'm a consistent industry as far as the membership is concerned. And then we offer the meds at crazy prices. I mean, for pharmaceutical, FDA licensed and approved medications, there's nothing like the pricing. It doesn't exist.

[B]

Wow. And what do you think about the. What I said about the future with the, with Big Pharma trying to. Is that a constant battle? Are you able to. Are you still able to do compounded GLPs or did they take those off?

[C]

Everything that's currently available is still available.

[B]

Okay, Okay.

[C]

I should say. Let me rephrase that. Everything that was available is still. Still currently available.

[B]

So Tirzepatite semaglutide.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.

[D]

I thought Eli Lilly, them shut that down.

[C]

They're trying to strive. So this is great. We guys can put this up here. Put the, put the readout up is Strive sued Eli Lilly. Strive Pharmacy out of Arizona sued Eli Lilly one. So pardon me, pause that. Eli Lilly, Eli Lilly and the pharmaceutical company sued Strive Strive 1. Now Strive is suing Eli Lilly and the other pharmaceutical companies. They're going on the offense now. Whoa. Yeah. This is huge news, by the way, for our industry.

[B]

This is massive.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So it's a big news for our industry. They are actively suing Big Pharma for trying to mitigate the industry and trying to come down on compounding pharmacies. Cause there is a need, there is a need for certain meds to be compounded. And if you have the right prescription and you have the right use cases, in particular GLP1s.

[D]

In my opinion, what, what we have found with GLP1s is most these patients dosing. Our dosing is way too high.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

You get almost every single. We did a thing last year where, and it was just for us, for educational purposes, we took on 50 GLP1 clients that the three of us met with them weekly and coached them through their. Their weight loss journey. Almost every single one of them. Their dosing was off. Too high.

[B]

Too high. I can't eat.

[D]

Yeah, too high enough.

[C]

And you wonder why they become skinny fat.

[B]

Right?

[D]

And it's like these people can't hit protein intake and lift weights like on these. This like it's crazy. But they're getting these already preloaded. This is your dose or a doctor starting them off at this super dose. So yeah, that it's, it's interesting that there's, there's that the Eli Lilly and them even have a Case because you. There's so many patients that we have seen that absolutely shouldn't even be at that dosage.

[B]

And by the way, the political climate. Because, you know, I. Because I follow the space. You know, it's like, one second it looks good this way, then it looks that way. But the political climate seems favorable for you guys with RFK because he's pro compound pharmacy CRF all the time. You do?

[C]

I do. He works out of my gym in Arizona.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So he's. He's pro, like compound pharmacies like this.

[C]

He's pro compound pharmacy. He's probably mushroom. He's pro everything. Okay. Let me tell you. I can tell that. I bet you mushrooms get approval before any peptide or anything else. I think that's number one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I've seen the.

[C]

Sorry, rfk.

[B]

No, I've seen the studies on that with the. With PTSD and all that stuff.

[C]

I would go back to your GLP1 statement. I think it should be illegal to prescribe GLP1s by themselves. I'm gonna say what I said for everybody. It should be illegal to prescribe GLP1s by themselves because one, you're dosing. So you're gonna go catabolic. No matter what you do, you're gonna go catabolic, period. You guys know that. You're gonna go catabolic. You have to put some sort of GHRH and igf something else to pair it. You have to.

[B]

So you're putting some kind of an anabolic, like, peptide in combination with that.

[C]

You have to. If you're a man, testosterone, right? If you're deficient. If you're younger in clomiphene, if. And you have to give them. So how many people, like all these companies, they just prescribe the GLP1. There's no nutrition. No, like eat one gram. One gram of protein. There's nothing. There's no workout regimen. There's no. What the fuck do you think is going to happen to you when you're not eating food, you're not lifting weight and you're not getting your protein. Now you're. And here's what happens is. And you guys know this is. Then they become skinny fat or they lose their muscle. So when they get. You could never get off your GLP because you. If you did destroy your mentality. Fatter than you were than before you started because you're. Everything's gone, Phil.

[B]

People. People are going on them and getting osteopenia because of low calories. We worked with the group that we worked with, Phil, I'm telling this is 100%. There was one woman. There was more than one, But I remember this one woman who lost 80 pounds on a GLP1. Super low calories. She had 50 more pounds to go. She was eating under a thousand calories a day and couldn't lose any more weight. Her body had. Her metabolism had. That's it. Plateau, flat line. And she's like, what do I do? Do I up my dose? I'm like, no, we're gonna go down to 500 calories.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we had to reverse diet her, which was very hard on the GLP1. And we tried to talk to her about working with getting on a compounded one so she could adjust the dosage because she plateaued. You're also seeing that. You're seeing people lose a bunch of weight and plateau because they lose so much muscle metabolism goes in the tank, losing their hair. Like, you got a strength train. You can't eat too little. And I love what you said about combining it because you know that, by the way, the pharma industry agrees with you. So everybody listening right now. Phil's not like making some crazy statement. Right now, the pharma industry is investing massive R and D in myostatin inhibiting drugs and compounds to prevent the muscle loss.

[C]

They know the 677.

[B]

They know that.

[C]

Merck right now just has it. The sky clinical too.

[B]

Yeah, they know this. So what you just said isn't like. Like you didn't just invent like, they know. They're just not talking about it right now because they don't have their special drug yet ready to sell with the GLP1. But they know this is a problem. So I agree with you. 100.

[C]

I obsess on this industry every single day. I wake up, my first two, three hours of the day is reading. I just dive in and read and read. And the GLP1 problem is massive. I. The biggest thing no one's talking about is they stick to their titration schedule. Everyone sticks to their. I'm gonna go here. I'm gonna go for. If you are continuously losing fucking weight, why are you going up in your dose? If you're meeting your weight loss, why are you. Because your doctor said that's another thing is medicine's 50% art, 50% science. I just launched an amazing, an amazing comparison on this. I have identical twins. That means the exact same fucking DNA. They live together, they both play pickleball. They do the exact same thing. They're in the exact same consulting line of work. The identical medication dose for both, you would assume, same DNA, same lifestyle, it would work completely different.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Results.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

So if two identical twins get completely different results, what the fuck is it going to be for you and me, right? And so medicine's 50% art, 50% science. Something could work amazing for you and different for you, Sal. And the reason why is because all of our bodies are different, they react differently. And so even when we prescribe and I'm like, it should work, and they're like, well, can you guarantee it works? No, but that's why we stick with you. And that's why any provider, they should meet with you on a quarterly basis. You have to have check ins so that way you can adjust. Maybe this doesn't work. Maybe you get a better reaction here. Maybe at this dose it's better for you. I don't know. Same thing with testosterone. We have guys that are like at 160, not. Not going well, they go to like 1, 120, 100. Not that I would ever personally go down, but yeah, they get better results. And he's like, now I feel my libido is better and I'm like, your libido, it could be.

[B]

No, you're right. But you're 100%. No, you're 100% with testosterone even. It's incredible the difference. I have a buddy from Fitness guy, yeah, Works out and he wanted to try what was considered a somewhat of a micro dose of terzepatite. So it wasn't the full dose at all. Wanted to micro dose it. Vomited. Vomited for days. That's how sensitive he was. Whereas other people, you would give that to that reaction. That's what. Yeah, it happened to me too. Yeah. On a microduction.

[C]

Did not sit well.

[B]

No. Whereas other people will take a full dose and then maybe I need more or whatever. There's a radical difference in variance with the GLP. 1s radical. Radical. My wife, if I microdose her, we're talking about five units. Five units on something where the nor the normal full dose.

[C]

150 units.

[B]

That's right. And five units for her. Sometimes we got to go down to two because she'll get a little bit of indigestion and nausea.

[C]

Could barely see that on the needle.

[B]

You're right, she's very sensitive. Whereas other people, people take more. So what you're saying is 100% correct.

[C]

It's, it's a shame, honestly. You know the bad actors where you talk about like Customer service. I'm more, I'm more concerned with bad actors that are giving bad guidance.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because that's what who gives a about our industry and making money. I care about hurting people. Like, that's ideally what these individuals are doing during this cash grab that's currently going on. Right. You got influencers that could give two about you. They could give two about you. All they want to do is clickbait you and let you run. Is the bill as high as possible with their user code.

[B]

Well, you know what a lot of people are getting their education from on peptides are these fitness freaks who take crazy amounts of test steroids. And those are not the people you want to get advice from. Peptides. They're taking grams of giving.

[C]

How can you. You guys have had so many amazing people on this show. So this is going to be horrible for me talking about them. How can the guys that come on here that are on nine other things be like, this is the one. This is the one thing that changed, though. My whole, like when I took that, everything changed. It's not the combination of the other nine things plus this one thing together that had the same synergistic effect. You're going to narrow it down. That's why I look at like Johnson and he's like, yeah, rapamycin, you know, I took it out, dude, you're on 200 medications.

[B]

Oh, you're talking about that guy that says he wants to live.

[C]

You're on 200. Listen, I'm good at math. I'm good at math, pal. There's no way in my right mind. He's like, yeah, we narrowed it down to that one pill. You narrowed it down?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Out of 200 medications to one piece.

[B]

What do you think about the future of your industry? Is it because of the bad actors? You know, it reminds me of the supplement industry. Does this to themselves all the time. Where you'll get some third party, whatever. Investigative, you know, investigative, you know, company will go out and take third party test supplements. They always come back the same. Eight out of 10 of them didn't have what they said or had other stuff in them. And I always, I'm always like, you guys are gonna, you're gonna make yourself get regulated. You know, it pisses me off.

[C]

We are regulated by the way you are, but research aid. But we are.

[B]

Yes, you are regulated, but could you, could you, with these bad actors, could you see how they could bring up, bring about the other regulation that makes it like, no more compounding, no more.

[C]

I think there's no way. So I personally think there's no way our industry gets destroyed. And the reason why is there will be a revolution like we've never seen before.

[D]

There's too many people telling.

[C]

It's the first time ever that people have control of their health. Think about this. It's the first time ever that people have preventative control of their health to where, you know, pda, bpc, like actually going in and seeing if it can happen naturally instead of forcing surgery. It's the first time that you can gain muscle and you can, you know, you know, TB4, TB1. There's so many different things that help out with immunity. And for you to come in and take that away, I think it won't get more regulated. I think big Pharma is going to get more aggressive in creating their own lines.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[C]

Because you know why they're missing out on the revenue.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And, and they'll find a way to make this truly, I think they're going to not only find their own lines, they're going to find a way to make this insurable.

[B]

By the way, reimbursement for people listening right now. Just so I remember I asked this question, I asked Dr. Seeds this question, right? She's. I love him. And he, he really explained it. Well, the difference between a drug and a peptide is a peptide your body already produces, your body knows what to do with, recognizes it. A pharmaceutical drug is basically shoehorning a chemical to attach to receptors. And your body doesn't recognize it, and we hope it does this and not all this other stuff. When you take BPC or tb, your body makes it already.

[C]

So what, you're doing some of them, but yes, on some of them, yes. So there's 7,000 peptides in the human body. 7,000 peptides are nothing more than short chains of amino acids. Less than 50, more than 50. It's called the protein. Okay, Very simply, the great part about peptides is imagine you look at a US map. All the highways go somewhere. You want to go to la, take this highway. You want to go through Arizona. You take the 10, take the 17. Peptides are nothing more than messengers for the body. It tells you, it's like, like shooting a text message. Click, click here, okay, Slow down my digestion. Click, click. Satiate me. Click, click. Send a toxic message. Pituitary gland release growth hormone. They're natural to the body. A lot of them are natural right to the body. But peptides, because you're getting synthetic peptides a lot of times, but bpc. No, but BPC is amazing. By the way, shout out to Everybody that's taken BPC and taken PDA. There's 7,000 peptides. It's the only one. You can't replicate that 15 chain amino. There's so many GHRHs, there's so many different ones. It's the only one. That's why pda, God forbid, like we get that taken away from us, we're going to be in big trouble. But there's so many amazing peptides that can do amazing things, but they're just messengers and people are afraid. Like, it's cool to talk, but peptides are still new. Is it? What's the first peptide? Insulin saved what, millions, if not tens, hundreds of millions of lives. It's 100 years ago. A hundred years ago we brought insulin to market. But like peptides are still new. You have to be careful. You know what we need to be careful of is taking chemicals and putting chemicals in our body that we have absolute no idea what it's going to happen. Like giving yourself something that your body has and more of it. That's considered amazing.

[B]

Well, what worries me because I remember when this happened and maybe it's different now. Maybe what you're saying is I agree with you, so most might be different. But I remember in, remember 2020, remember the craziness that happened there. I remember during the COVID time, there was data showing that thymosin Alpha might actually help with COVID And suddenly you couldn't get thymos and Alpha. They made it, you could not sell it. So there's always a part of me that's a little bit like, oh man. You know, when there's enough money, they'll find a way to. But you're saying the opposite. There's so much money the way it is now, they're going to try and figure out how to get in the business.

[C]

You're. There's an inflection point. This is great. There's an inflection point. This is the Kodak blockbuster Inflection point is the world's changing. Yeah, the world is changing right now. And those who get behind it will flourish. Now they're going to figure out dosing mechanisms because like Ozempic and these, these, these peptides, they're patenting the dosing. They're patenting the route of injection patent. They're patenting certain things that make it easier and that they can actually maintain a patent on so that they can make money. They're going to innovate at a Speed that they never have before in this market. They're going to make compounds with PHS that actually can bind and bend together so that they can be injected. The body, the glows, and everything else that everybody's using, they're gonna find a way to do this fast. Like MK and all these. It's amazing that when MK went on the scheduled tour, the. The category 2 substance list, MK677 in Beauta Merlin.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So.

[B]

So that went schedule.

[C]

Yeah, just wait.

[B]

Is that why I can't get that?

[C]

Just wait.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But yeah, Merc. I believe it's Merc. Don't quote me. All of a sudden. Came out with a. Yeah, no problem. We can move forward to clinical. We can move forward to phase two a week later. You didn't even mask it. It went on the category two, and then all of a sudden. Yeah, don't worry about it. Everything was good. No problem. So in one hand, it's dangerous for you and we don't have enough studies. But in the other hand, there were no problems with the study. Let's proceed to the advanced clinical phase. Think about that.

[B]

By the way, that was some strong stuff, man. That, man, I would take that and I would just get strong on that stuff. How did. Who was it that you said sued? Eli Strive Pharmacy. Okay, so how are they able to do that? Is. It is because I know, like, with certain compounds you can't patent because they're naturally occurring. How is that with. How are they doing that?

[D]

Is it like a counter suit because they lost revenue when Lily tried to sue?

[C]

The counter suit that they're doing right now has to do with. And again, I'm not pulling up the studies here, but there's. I believe it has something to do with the oppression that they're pushing down on compounding pharmacies and trying to make it hard to do business.

[B]

Right.

[D]

You're hurting my business.

[B]

So they're like, that's the point.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. They try to. That Lily's tried to sue first lost. And then that's them coming back and being like, now we're getting you for all the last revenue for tarnishing our name.

[B]

And how did they win the lawsuit in the first place? Is it that you can't patent peptides because they're naturally.

[C]

It's not that they couldn't patent. They said that they couldn't prescribe, like, tirzepatide and semaglutide. I forget what the med was. But they couldn't prescribe one of them and they went to court and they said, you can't stop them. And I believe that. You guys gotta look at the quote. Please, God, put the quote up on this damn video. What do you guys do it? The judge says, thank God for compounding pharmacies.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

It was one of the most amazing.

[B]

Wow. That was the ruling.

[C]

Yeah. It was one of the most amazing, amazing quotes that I've seen out there. But yeah, it, it definitely was something to, well, to your point that we've

[D]

reached this point where I, I, we, we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

Because we what, for the first time in decades we've actually slowed down the rate of obesity and we're actually reversing.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[D]

I mean that's, we've been on the rise for, well, this is the first years, 50 plus years.

[B]

This is the first, first time a medical intervention actually for obesity used properly. All right. Especially if you work with a trainer, protein. Right. Dosing. It's the first time a medical intervention is actually, can make a big difference without also killing you.

[C]

Almost. It's borderline guaranteed. You can't, you can't stop it from working.

[B]

Have you guys, have you seen that? Snack food companies are reporting losses. Airlines are going to start cutting prices because the people are not as heavy. They're talking about.

[D]

Well, you even see, you see the big shift. I told, I've been talking about the show.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Because we know how important protein is. You're seeing fast food restaurants with whole new high protein menu and they're pushing that because they know that everybody's going to be on a GLP1.

[C]

You have Hershey's and a couple of these companies that have hired doctors, functional medicine doctors to lead them into the next phase. I know some of them that have just been hired getting paid half a million million dollars a year to lead them into the next phase. I think the scary part, and you know this is really the scary part for me is this is going to end up bankrupting the country. And I'm going to walk you through this. Is Ozempic intrazepatides going to end up bankrupting the United States? That's a crazy statement. How is, because the biggest issue we have with our funding right now is Social Security. People are going to live longer than they ever have in their life. They are, is because you're managing their glucose, you're managing their sugar, insulin resistance. People are going to fundamentally live way longer than they ever have. Heart disease going down, diabetes going down,

[B]

everything obesity related and blood sugar related.

[C]

And what's going to happen when all of a sudden the Social Security bill, click, click, click, click, click. You're not. We're already on the verge, right. We're 40 billion. I mean it's going to bankrupt the country as you continue down this line. Unless they're going to figure that out,

[B]

they're going to have to. You also have entire industries that are, are losing money because they are there to treat all of the nasty side effects of obesity and poor health, all the medications. And then again snack food companies are reporting losses, clothing companies are changing how they purchase and make sizes. And so we're already seeing this being reported and we only have, I think last time we looked at how many, what percentage of Americans were on a GOP on like 20%. That's gonna go up to probably three quarters.

[C]

Well, where are they right now too, the oral options?

[B]

Because I know that for sure is

[C]

gonna like that's the last sort of barrier I see with you know, they've got them. Yeah, we've got oral options. I mean there's oral options available. The downside is our stomachs are so damn acidic. Like it breaks it down. So you gotta take. I believe it's like a two point Dr. Dan, if you is, is our, our main guy on this. I think it's like a 2.8% bioavailability on the pill. So you've got to take like 30 times the dose to get the absorption. It works but it's.

[B]

Does it work as well when you get report when people report back or they.

[C]

People have reported back. I'm not the, the keen on this one but people have reported back. Good. I just think that the, there's nothing like injectable anything. Yeah, like our stomachs are the. Nate, they're like I use nasal. I, I used the trocheats. Listen, there's nothing better than injectable. The bioavailability is just so high and so. Yeah, I mean I think that it's gonna be a big, it's gonna be the games. But we don't even talk about the real side effects of these products. We talk about side effects all the time of GLP1s and like oh, the blindness to this. What about evisceration of heart disease? Diabetes, cancers? I mean all of this, the other

[B]

stuff you mentioned is so low, even in the data, so low. The risk of these things is surrounding

[C]

air and I'm not taking it away.

[B]

You're right. The biggest risk is if you don't. If you just do it and don't monitor protein and strength training. You lose a bunch of muscle. That's the risk, 100%. That's the big risk that everybody's gonna run into unless you approach.

[C]

And most of these people that are taking it, they don't have any discipline. So they need trainers. We tell them all the time, we launched an app to, like, give them training. But I'm still like, please, God, get a trainer. Yeah, like, do something. You need an accountability buddy. That's what you need. Like, everybody needs an accountability. I need an accountability buddy on the basic daily shit that I do. Like, Phil, did you get that meeting shit? I missed the meeting. But you need someone to help you, you know, along your pathway. It's not just having a person there to tell you what to do. It's just holding you accountable for doing what you said you were going to do. You obviously got fat and weren't in shape and all this other stuff. Now you have a cheat code. It is Ozempic and Tirzepath. These are all cheap. They're a cheat code, guaranteed insurance policy. But if you get a trainer on top of it, the trainer should give a good amount of nutritional data to you. Right?

[B]

We've had a lot of success. We've had some great success so far, Phil, with people who've worked with our coaches who've been on a GLP1, who were able to come off the GLP1, create new disciplines with a scale down kind of process, develop new behaviors, new disciplines, new ways to approach when the hunger comes back. Dr. Seeds communicated this really well too. All the neural pathways that you had developed around certain behaviors, they start to weaken after you're on a GLP1 for six months or a year because you're not strengthening them. We've had good success. When people come off and then the ones that are like, oh, I think I need to go back on. They go on a little bit and they come back off. Which I think is great because I think the concept of having to stay on something forever, I think that turns off a lot of people. But I think if you do it right, this is the best tool I've ever seen as a trainer. Ever. Never seen a tool as effective as the. If I had this 15 years ago, I'm just kidding. That's good. But so you guys are the. Are you guys. You and another company? So the only ones kind of doing monthly membership?

[C]

You know, there's a few that have come out over the, over the time period from an end to end, holistic, from an end to end. Like literally from front to back. Anything to do with health, anything to do with your body, your look, how you feel, how you show up every day. We're the only one that offers it end to end. There's a couple that come out and they offer a number of different products. But the good part is it's great. But then you still have to pay crazy money. So not only are you doing a membership, but now you're still charging stupid money for meds. The reason why we did a our membership is just to control opex, right? And I lose money on the business. Like people don't get this. They're like, you're printing cash. No, because I don't give a shit. I didn't build this business for money. I built it for a legacy. I built it to change people's lives. That's the difference is you've got people that are trying to make it, make their money, make all this return of investment. I don't give a shit. There's nothing I want to buy, there's nothing I want to invest in. There's no North Star of a dollar figure. I'm like, if I just had this much money, I have enough money for me to be happy. And so now it's my time to give people the opportunity to literally unlock the best version of themselves. But. And so we are. We are. The membership pieces were the best of the memberships. There's probably by now 10, 15 different companies of the bigs hone. It's really the only one that has a membership. And then you've got the ones that are just one product. Memberships. Yeah, just glp. One membership or just testosterone. What do you got, Peter md. You got all these other. Who. Who they just suffer on quality of care. Maybe one day we do suffer on quality of care. And guess what? I will slam the pause button on the company because I can. Nobody can do that. Like that's the difference. No one, no one's willing. No one can lose money. No one can lose money.

[D]

And so I shared a clip with these guys today. I was actually really surprised to hear this. I think it was on 60 Minutes with Peter Atia and she, she did like a rapid fire thing with him and she asked most overrated. Yeah, most overrated thing in the fitness space right now. And he said Peptides.

[C]

And I he round about it though. Did you show him the rest of the clip?

[D]

So no, no. So what else?

[C]

He. He talked. He. Specifically because. So he. I saw the Same thing, the rest of the clip. I'm gonna give a shout out to Peter, okay? He said because it's research, you don't know where they're coming from. He goes, you need to get them from. So there's a manipulator. You need to get the, you need to get the whole clip. It's a manipulator. Yeah, it's a manipulator.

[D]

I was so surprised I share with this guy because I was like, you know, a lot of what Peter ATIA says aligns with a lot of things that we talk about. And I was like, wow, I'm really surprised that he was specifically.

[C]

He's 100 in on peptides. He's 100. He says peptides. And then he goes, specifically research peptides. And then he goes through and he goes, you don't know where they're coming from. They're not from a lab, they're not from here, they're not qc. So people manipulated that. I posted it on our own wall and people didn't finish watching and they're like, well, what the fuck? Why am I taking. I immediately took it down because I'm like, shit, this is going to cause me a nightmare. Because people didn't want to watch. They're like, peptides. And then they just ended it and immediately sent us a support email.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[C]

And they're like, how dare you do that? And put Peter. And. And I'm like, oh, God, these people don't want to watch the whole clip. Like there's, there's 60 seconds up. You watched eight.

[D]

Yeah, well, people have been chopping it like that. It's chopped to just him saying that.

[C]

Manipulation.

[B]

Well, that makes sense. Yeah, it all makes sense.

[C]

He's, he's. By the way, I, I love the guy. I think he's great. He's a wealth of knowledge. I just hate how he flip flops. But that's also a good thing. He's one of the only doctors that come out. He'll say, I changed my mind strong on one product. And when he gets enough research, yeah, he'll change.

[B]

I appreciate that.

[C]

And the level of respect that you have to have for somebody like that is hard because they. He goes hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

When he believes in something, he goes hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I feel like we're like that. Yeah, I mean, we're.

[B]

Lane's like that. Lane's done that.

[D]

I think we, we will be staunch about something until the research comes out. We're proved otherwise, but we're the first ones who admit it. Though when it does. I mean, we were that way on EAA's. Remember how we were on EAA's.

[B]

Yep.

[D]

We talked a lot of about it for a very long time and then was blown away by some of the research and studies and said, okay, it makes sense for this person in this situation. Like, I get it.

[C]

What do you guys think about, like, some of these new drugs that are coming? I say new. Newer. Right. The Samorin, that's some Morelands. All that's been around for a while, but Sloop and MOT C and all these other products that people are coming out with, which, by the way, I just jumped on them right now. So before I get.

[D]

Sal's taking them all. Yeah, I. I have my. Like, the BPC. And what's the replacement of that right now?

[C]

PDA.

[D]

Yeah, PDA. I think between those and GLP1, everything else pales in comparison, in my opinion.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And I've tried a lot. I've tried a lot of them, but I've been injured a lot of times, played sports and stuff like that, and I know what it's like to recover from an injury without BPC. And then with it. It. Is it literally 50 of the recovery time. I like half. So if you're something that whatever injury you have, it should take 16 weeks. Whatever. Half the recovery time.

[B]

That's.

[D]

That's miraculous to me.

[C]

I throw in that. So we throw in a. I throw in Angelone all the time when we do this. Angelone's a fantastic.

[D]

And I would say thymus and beta with that. Right. Also. So.

[B]

So, yeah. Yeah. Bodybuilder.

[C]

It's a 500 increase in collagen. It's the only one that has that type of. Of in low doses.

[D]

It's good.

[C]

You still got a problem down there.

[D]

Yeah, we know how good all that stuff works.

[C]

That's.

[D]

Yeah. But as far as the OG stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know how good all that stuff works. But from the peptide space, I've been most impressed with those. Those are the ones that I think. And we've. We've tried a lot. MOT C. C. Max tried the. And he's messed with everything, I think.

[B]

I think Sloop's interesting. I've seen the reviews, and some people rave about it. I tried. Sloop won't say who recommended it to me or the dose they recommended. Let's just say it's a buddy of mine that gets a little overzealous and I was taking such a crazy. I didn't know it was a crazy dose, but he's like, no, no, try this. You'll love it. Couldn't sleep. I felt terrible. It was, like, too much, so I haven't touched it since. MOT C. Amazing. I felt so good. And some people take it. They don't notice anything.

[C]

I just had our docs build a protocol at motc, and I'm like, all right, guys, you know, build a protocol. MOT C. They come back to me in like, three hours, fully done. And I'm like, really? And he goes, phil, there was more research that we found on MOT C than some of the stuff that we've had around for forever. He goes, because we pulled 15 studies in a matter of 20 minutes. We fully protocoled it out. We got it built. And I'm like, there's no way. And he goes, this is amazing.

[B]

It's one of my favorites. It's one of my favorites.

[D]

Yeah, you've read.

[B]

Yeah. I took it and I just had this incredible, incredible difference in energy and well being. I know Justin had a good experience from it. It's good energy.

[C]

You take glutathione.

[B]

Glutathione, I'll use occasionally. You know, when I use glutathione, I'll use injectable glutathione. If I drink. Yeah. Yeah, then I'll use it. Or if I'm getting sick. Yeah, then I'll use it.

[C]

Same.

[B]

My wife has a really bad reaction from alcohol if she drinks. Sometimes she'll wake up in the middle of night, sweat, won't feel good. If I give her glutathione, then she. That doesn't happen to her. So that's. That's the other one, glutathione.

[D]

NAD are solid, especially for situations like that.

[C]

So NAD, we've got a little under 100 meds, and NAD represents almost 40% entire company's revenue.

[B]

Wow. Really?

[D]

I told.

[C]

How much.

[D]

I told these guys, we've done it. We've done every. We've done everything from the patch, the iv, all the stuff, liposomal, whatever. And I went through something I shared on the show a couple months back where I came off of Kratom. I had a Kratom addiction. Came off of it, had some of the worst opiate withdrawals I've ever had in my life and went and got a NAD drip. And it was like, crazy. What a difference. I felt like. And that was what sold me, like, I'd already messed with it enough times. Like, oh, I think I feel a little bit better. Take your crash, your body and your Health really, really bad. And then take it and you can feel. Feel a night and day difference. That was enough for me to be sold on, like, okay, this is. This is definitely working, especially in a situation like that. So I'm sold on nad. I use glutathione, so there's a lot of them out there. I think there's a lot, though, that, like, I didn't. I didn't feel much from Tessa Morland. Ibutamorin felt the appetite increase, and I felt my sleep, so I did like that.

[B]

So I felt the combined BPC and Thymus and beta or TB 500. And that's, like, amazing.

[C]

Well, yeah, that's.

[B]

I mean, you get performance enhancement effects from that. At least I do in the gym,

[C]

so that's a good recovery.

[D]

Yes. Wolverine's hack. That's amazing.

[C]

I think. I think all the GHRPs have been fantastic. I just think you got to get the right dose. Right. Some Moreland testimony, CJC and Pomerelin, I think probably the best one. Because now you think 500 synergistic.

[D]

Part of me feels like I'm jaded because I've taken regular human growth.

[C]

Real growth.

[D]

Yeah, real growth. For a long time.

[B]

So.

[D]

And I.

[B]

If.

[D]

So if you compare to that, I just. I feel like it's hard.

[C]

I mean, you're talking about a scooter and a crotch rocket.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I mean, these are.

[D]

So that's probably why I'm. I feel that way about it. Yeah. I'm just like, yeah.

[C]

I mean, there's nothing like that. I think that. But I also think that, like, there's little things that you can do, like with certain peptides, even with testosterone. Basic stuff. Like, people, they're on sipinate. Sipionate their whole. Their whole life. And I was like, have you tried tri blend? Have you done, like, propionate and Anthony and sipionate together? And they're like, what's that? And you're like, it's really good on the days you inject.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And like, just doing different things. I mean, that's what we've been playing with.

[B]

Oh, so you guys still. You guys will sell those?

[C]

Oh, yeah. We have every. We have every one of them. And we've got them separated. We've got them connected. We got them together.

[B]

A lot of people don't know this either. The ester will actually lower the amount of testosterone that's available. So, like, Testosterone propionate at 100mg is more than 100mg at estate anti because some of it's locked up.

[C]

And what's crazier is you got these clinics that are doing one injection a week. I think that's criminal. Yeah, that's like, what's wrong? And then they're like, yeah, my. Listen, first of all, minimum, twice a week, minimum, I don't care what anybody. I've got enough labs because there's a lot of people that are smart. They've got a lot of knowledge, a lot of studying. I've got applied knowledge. It's completely different. I get to see the labs on a daily basis. I get to watch humans. Like a Monday. Thursday is absolutely fantastic. Right. Just because you get more of a baseline, and then you do three different esters. And then. So now you get a really cool little map on that. And I'm lucky enough I get to take my labs on a daily basis if I wanted to, or weekly basis. And so then you've got other cool things that we've also introduced is we now mix the anastrozil in with the testosterone oil. Because I got tired of the men. Men are dumb. We're just stupid. We're ego. We're forgetting. You get your testosterone shot, you're gone. I forgot. Wow. I forgot what happened.

[B]

So you're putting it in the testosterone.

[C]

Yeah, so we mix it within the oils. We put the Armadex inside of the oil.

[D]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Well, that's kind of smart that way

[C]

you don't forget it. And so I got tired of the support emails and calls, and they're like, hey, you know, my nipples hurt. And I'm like, listen, did you. He's like, oh, I forgot. So now we just removed.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

All of that. You put 0.25 or 0.5 in with the oil. So that way when they get their shot.

[B]

That's smart.

[C]

It automatically hits the body. And then I ran a ton of studies recently on oxandrolone because we got. Everybody just hits us up every day for this.

[B]

Yeah, it's Anavar.

[C]

Yeah, Anavar. And so, like, the guy's like, Yeah, I want 50 milligrams. I was like, you realize if you took like, 10 in the morning, 10 at night, that would crush 50 in the morning.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And so when you watch it on the graph and you see the levels and you see, like, the experience like this, the little tiny things that we do, that is different from some of these other companies. Same thing with our injury recovery recovery protocols. Adding Angelone and bpc. Like, these are great products, but when you pair them and you stack them together like the synergistic effects.

[D]

Well, just to echo what you're saying, you know, I. I've. I've been getting my testosterone through a clinic for, like I said, over a decade now. And I've had now three, four different doctors that have done it. And they all were on the one shot. A weak thing for me. And I also, like, I don't know what the term is, but like, my body, like, so I would spike really hard. By day seven, I was like below what I think. Oh yeah, it was 200 or something. And so then they moved it to like a little bit higher dose still, same problem. Then they went to day six, still, still a problem. So it ended up being like every four to five days is what I need to keep that from that huge crash.

[C]

And so the natural pulsatile release of the body is every three, three and a half days. That's the natural pulsatile release of the body. And so if you can stick close to that, you'll keep a lot better. And then you won't get the big estrogen spikes.

[B]

Some people are going to sub Q or doing testosterone.

[C]

Sub Q. I've heard a lot about this. My brain can't get around it. I just hold the oil for three and a half hours sitting there like, watch. Watching this going through the damn needle. I was like, just sitting there. I feel like a Jeopardy song needs to come on. Waiting for the oil to come in.

[B]

All right, so Phil, I want to do. I got. I'm going to ask you nine rapid fire questions. You're just going to give me the best peptide for each of them.

[C]

Say it again.

[B]

Are you going to give me the best peptides or whatever for each of the things that I.

[C]

All right, I'll give you your best.

[B]

It's not a conversation, just boom. All right, you ready? Gut healing.

[C]

Bpcpda.

[B]

All right. Joint pain and inflammation

[C]

probably same. Adding glutathione.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Fat loss, Tirzepatide.

[B]

Muscle recovery,

[C]

muscle strength recovery, muscle recovery. I'd probably go cjc. Empamorellin for best effects.

[B]

Sleep quality sleep dis up anxiety and stress.

[C]

A good woman.

[B]

You guys sell those too?

[C]

Skin hair, Anti aging, skin hair and anti aging. Ghkcu. You guys could do the glow stacks, but GHKC was great for skin hair. All right, Libido, you got PT141. And we also brought a new drug to market, which we'll talk. I want to definitely get that, but blood pump.

[B]

Okay. Brain focus and cognition,

[C]

brain focus and cognition. Let's see what's that going through the I like nads. That's the obviously coenzyme brain focus you guys do Cmax 5 5Amino 1 MQ I like, I like Cmax L ank I like SS31. I mean there's a ton of stuff

[B]

there and then injury repair

[C]

by far PDA TB 500 and then stack it with some nandrolone and some testosterone on top of it.

[B]

Oh, that'll do it. Well bro, this has been a good time.

[C]

Absolutely, yeah.

[B]

Thanks for coming on the show. It's a lot of fun. I appreciate someone like you in the space and we'll see what happens.

[C]

This has been fun man. Thank you, thank you, thank you for

[A]

listening to Mind Pump if your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprint and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump

[C]

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