2808: Build a Butt or Get Abs? Where Do I Start?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth — Episode 2808

Title: "Build a Butt or Get Abs? Where Do I Start?"

Release Date: March 6, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Overview of Main Theme

This episode focuses on a popular question in fitness: “Should I build my butt or get abs first?” The Mind Pump crew unpacks the science and psychology behind building a butt vs. shedding fat for abs, debunking myths and offering practical strategies for sustainable body transformation. They also delve into related topics like sustainable fat loss, muscle building order of operations, how physique goals have changed over time, and the long-term health impacts of strength training and muscle mass. The episode blends science-backed fitness advice with lively banter, personal stories, and tangential forays into childhood play, generational differences, and supplements.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. “Build a Butt or Get Abs?”: The Order Matters

• Start with Building Muscle First, Especially the Glutes

  • Justin: “You want to build a butt and you want abs. I’m going to tell you right now, build a butt. Start there. That's the best place to start.” (03:45)
  • Adam: “Trying to do both at the same time means you do nothing. It’s literally like you’re trying to drive your car forward and back at the same time.” (05:20)
  • Reasoning:
    • Building muscle requires a calorie surplus, while getting shredded for abs requires a deficit – doing both at once stalls progress.
    • Building glutes first makes future fat loss (cutting) easier because you’ll burn more calories at rest, preserve curves when you get lean, and get a metabolic boost.

• Psychological and Visual Benefits

  • Building muscle, especially glutes for women (and chest, shoulders for men), creates a more athletic, curvy, or “shapely” look—even at a higher body fat percentage.
  • Strength and muscle mass drastically improve the appearance of a physique at the same body fat percentage; visuals of “before and after” at similar fat percentages but different muscle mass drive the point home.
    • “A man at 19% body fat with more muscle looks way different [than] at 19% with less muscle.” (15:05)

• Enhanced Sustainability and Long-Term Results

  • Building first increases your metabolic rate, so dieting later is easier and more sustainable (10:01–12:42)
  • Even for those who “just want to lose weight,” focusing on muscle gains helps make weight loss more effective and maintainable.

2. Debunking Implants and “Shortcuts”

• The rise of artificial enhancements like butt injections is critiqued; not only are they risky and often look disproportionate, but they can affect muscular function and health.
  • Adam: “It doesn’t look right… it looks better when the hamstrings and the quads and everything come up with it.” (09:12)
  • The crew underscores the power of actually building muscle, which is achievable for almost everyone.

3. Fitness Culture: Then vs. Now

• The hosts reminisce on shifting cultural preferences: building muscle (and specifically, building a butt) was far less popular 20 years ago; now it’s mainstream for both women and men (04:06–04:40).
• Discussion on how social pressures and ideals prompt some to chase both “lean” and “curvy” at once—often leading to frustration and spinning wheels.

4. The Hidden Benefits of Muscle & The “Under-Muscle” Crisis

• Modern society’s health crisis isn’t just “over-fatness,” but “under-muscling.” People who maintain or build muscle mass are metabolically healthier, more functional, and look markedly better at the same weight and body fat.
  • “It’s as if muscle is this active miracle tissue that people just don’t realize.” (18:17)
  • Referencing Dr. Gabrielle Lyon’s work: “We don’t have an obesity problem; we have an under-muscle problem.” (19:01)

5. Generational Shifts: Childhood, Play, and Strength

• Playful tangent into how children today are less physically active (no monkey bars, less broken bones, more indoor play) compared to previous generations, reflected in declining grip strength and bone density (21:09–30:47).
  • “College-aged males today have the average grip strength of a 50-something-year-old in 1986.” (20:02)
• Societal risk-aversion has led to less physical development, and possibly less resilience.

6. Supplements & Product Experiences

• Ketone IQ: Hosts share positive experiences, especially with increased focus and energy. Noted that it doesn’t taste great, but is improved vs. older formulas.
  • Adam: “Old exogenous ketones tasted like jet fuel… but it has gotten better.” (59:23)
• Legion Protein: Strong endorsement for taste and mixability, particularly peanut butter cup flavor.
  • Justin: “Is this really protein? …this is the most delicious. I can’t believe this is protein.” (56:05)

7. Listener Q&A Highlights

(Timestamps indicate start of each question)

Q1: Is Adding Daily Calisthenics on Top of MAPS Program Overkill? (66:50)

• Adding a significant amount of calisthenics (push-ups, pull-ups, squats, etc.) on top of a structured MAPS program can be excessive unless carefully selected.
• Advice: “Follow the program exactly as laid out; then modify, tweak, add new things the second time around.” (68:12)
• Overreaching too quickly may inhibit progress and recovery.

Q2: Is MAPS Great 8 Good for a 40-Year-Old Doing BJJ? (69:04)

• Yes, especially as “in-season”/sport-focused programming since it emphasizes one big lift per day, maximizing adaptation without overly taxing recovery.

Q3: What’s Most Important for Sleep Quality? (70:12)

• Sleep length and sleep quality are primary; but the best way to improve them is maintaining a consistent sleep schedule—same bedtime, same wake time, every day.
• “Of all the things… that improve your sleep, that's the biggest one.” (70:51)

Q4: Experiences with BPC157 + TB500 Peptides? (73:31)

• Both are enthusiastically endorsed for recovery from injury, muscle quality, and even subjective “leanness.”
  • “Cuts recovery time in half.” (74:44)
  • “Of all the peptides I've used, [that combination] is my absolute favorite.” (74:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Chasing Two Goals:
  “Trying to do both at the same time means you do nothing. It’s literally like you’re trying to drive your car forward and back at the same time.” – Adam Schaefer (05:20)

• The Impact of Building Muscle First:
  “If you have to, you do have to pick one or the other, focus on building the butt. That one makes the biggest difference.” – Justin Andrews (12:42)

• Critique of Implants:
  "It's the biggest, strongest muscle in your lower body. So… you have the most potential to grow and manipulate… It looks way, way better to do that [than get implants]." – Adam Schaefer (09:12)

• On Under-muscling:
  “We actually really don’t have an obesity problem. We have an under muscle problem.”— Adam Schaefer (19:01)

• Childhood Play & Physicality:
  “I remember, like, a simple game…see how many [monkey bars] you could skip. Physical, hard, physical play was what we did.” – Adam Schaefer (22:14)

• Nutrition & Childhood:
  “We ate garbage in the 90s, you guys. It’s not like it was radically… maybe when Doug was microwave food, but when we were kids, you had Squeezits… Twinkies in their lunch.” – Justin Andrews (28:07)

• Supplements:
  “Is this really protein? …this is the most delicious. I can’t believe this is protein.” – Justin, quoting a friend’s first impression of Legion Peanut Butter Cup (56:05)

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Additional Segment Timestamps

• 03:45 – Launching into the butt vs. abs debate
• 09:12 – Dangers & dysfunction of artificial butt enhancements
• 15:05 – Visual difference of “same body fat, more/less muscle”
• 19:01 – Quote on “under-muscling” as the real health issue
• 21:09 – Decline of generational strength (grip strength stats)
• 29:21 – Data on declining bone density & fractures in children
• 43:28 – Discussion on supplement taste, particularly Ketone IQ
• 56:05 – Strong testimonial for Legion protein flavor
• 66:50 – Q&A segment begins

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Tone & Style

• Laid-back, witty, and irreverent – the hosts freely share personal anecdotes, humor, and occasionally tangent into pop culture or nostalgic territory (childhood, toys, snacks).
• Science-informed and direct – even when casual, advice is always rooted in the hosts’ decades of fitness experience.
• Candid product commentary – honest about sponsor products, including what they actually use and like (and sometimes, what they don’t).

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a quintessential Mind Pump blend of hard fitness truth, myth-busting, and actionable advice. If you’re trying to decide how to prioritize your training—whether to chase visible abs or stronger glutes (or the classic dilemma of building vs. burning)—this is your no-nonsense, science-backed roadmap. The hosts’ wide-ranging discussion also touches on crucial but overlooked aspects of health, such as the long-term value of muscle mass, society’s slipping physicality, and the sometimes-underestimated impact of supplements and routines. Plus, you’ll get practical guidance for integrating new training, sleeping, and recovery tactics.

Transcript

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[Chandler G.]

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[Sal Destefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

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Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts

[Sal Destefano]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews,

[Justin Andrews]

you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the history of the entire world. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we have listeners questions. People posted them at mindpump Media on Instagram. We picked four of them, but this was after our intro. Today's intro was 62 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness and strength training and fat loss and current events and family life. Of course, it's always a good time. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first One is ketone iq. So typically, if you want high ketones in your system, if you want the focus that comes from ketones, you gotta go on a ketogenic diet, no carbs, or fast for a long time. Well, if you like carbs, you don't want to go no carb, you don't want to fast. But you want the benefits of ketones. The focus, the lower inflammation, the better athletic performance. You can try exogenous ketones and ketone IQ is the best company for it. Go check them out. Go to ketone.com that's K-E-T-O-N-E.com mindpump on that link, you'll get 30% off your subscription. Plus you can get a free gift with your second shipment. This episode is also brought to you by Legion. Legion supplements are some of the best. Today we talked about their protein powder, just how great that it tastes, how easy it mixes. There's no artificial sweeteners in it, so it's all natural. Great company, great products. Go check them out. Get yourself a discount. Go to buylegion.com mindpump the code mindpump will get you buy one, get one 50% off. We also have a brand new maps program bundle. It's called the spring bundle. It's Maps Symmetry and Maps Prime. And we include the advanced training technique guide. So all of that together, over 50% off. You get all of it for 1 47. Go check it out. Go to mapsmarch.com all right, real quick.

[Eli]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show, ladies.

[Justin Andrews]

You want to build a butt and you want abs. I'm going to tell you right now, build a butt. Start there. That's the best place to start. I'll explain why in a second.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it'd be interesting if we had stats on that, obviously. I mean, that's such a popular thing. I Remember back in 24 days, butts and Guts was a seminar I used to.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So it was a popular, a popular seminar that we used to run. It was. I'd always get filled up too. So obviously. And I see the direction you're going. It's a common goal that someone say, I want, I want a small waist. And I also want to build my butt. It would be interesting to see if we saw the statistics on this. And I would love to wish we could see the comparison of 20 years ago and today because I can almost guarantee what the stats were 20 years ago. I'm not too sure about right now. I see what you're saying 20 years ago, 100%. Everybody tried to get a small ways first and then build the first.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

That would be like lose the. I got to lose this, I lose this, you know, baby weight or lose my body, lose body fat, lose that first. And then I want, I want to build a butt where I think more people are aware of the direction you're going to go with this. And I, I, and I would, I would think that's changed, but it'd be interesting to see how much has changed.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it still more dominant that way, you think, or do you think it's shifted enough?

[Justin Andrews]

I think so. But I think what you probably see more often is I want both. Can you give me a routine that'll give me abs and I want to build my butt?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, yeah, no, I think you're going to get. People that are going to say that have always said that, but I think that the approach to that you can't

[Justin Andrews]

do both at the same time. One requires you in a calorie surplus and you're gaining. The other one requires you to be in a calorie deficit and you're losing. Trying to do both at the same time means you do nothing. It's literally like you're trying to drive your car forward and back at the same time. So you end up staying in the same place. You have to focus on one and not on both. And so then the question is, which one do I focus on first? Is does it matter? Does it matter if I start with one before the other? Does it make it easier or harder to accomplish the second one if I start with one versus the other and the answer is yes. Yeah, there is a better, you know, way to start or there is a better order. I should say start by building a. But if your goal is to get a smaller, tighter waist and your goal is to get a more round butt, start by building the butt. Because that process of building will make it easier for you to get lean later on. Getting lean first in the deficit can actually make it harder to gain afterwards in comparison.

[Chandler G.]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So you start with this calorie surplus. You go into what's called a bulk and you focus on what's on getting strong. This in turn causes or, or tends to move your metabolism in a positive way, then the cut is much easier. Always build first.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

I wonder if that mentality of like really trying to slim down and the frustration of not building might lead into things like butt injections.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, gosh.

[Eli]

You know, like all the artificial options out there that, you know, are way more prevalent than they were before. And it's frustrating because we know you can literally build a butt. Like it's, it's something that's like very feasible to do. But I think that the approach for sure, like this is, is necessary to think about that first.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not only that, but it's. I mean, I know we've, we've come a long ways with the science and, and the fake butts are better today than what they were 20 years ago. But it, it's, it doesn't look. Because it's a muscle, you know, and so. And muscles work synergistically. It doesn't look right. No, it's. It's this. You.

[Eli]

You see. I see it a lot though.

[Adam Schaefer]

I do too. And, and I, and I asked, I asked Katrina. Katrina. Now I feel like, because I've talked to her about it so much, I feel like she now totally sees it. But I don't think she saw it before until like I would explain to her, I'm like, do you not see like what the hamstring to ratio to the, the glute ratio looks like and like how off that looks, you know, and once you, I feel like once you see that, you can't unsee that. And so it's takes away from that. I would rather, and I, I've told her this before, I would rather look at a body that is more symmetrical with a smaller butt that is proportionate to the legs. I think it just, it, it looks better than the, this overly sized butt with no hamstrings to go with it.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, that's not to, that's also. You're not even talking about the, the dysfunction, the muscle recruitment pattern dysfunction that happens from having implants under a muscle. By the way, this happens for the upper body too. When women get breast augmentation. It changes the angle of pull of the pec muscles. And so you see things like frozen shoulder and shoulder issues are actually quite common in those situations. Now you're doing it to arguably the most important, most crucial part of the body, which is the lumbo pelvic hip area. And so you're going to cause different recruitment patterns, potential dysfunction, not to mention the risk of things like capsular, you know, contraction where the, where the actual implant itself starts to form scar tissue around it, and that can cause issues. And also, at the end of the day, It's a muscle. 10 out of 10 times. 10 out of 10 times. You could build your butt. You could build the muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

It has the most potential.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's the biggest, strongest muscle in your lower body. So it's like of all the muscles that you have the most potential to grow and manipulate. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And change the shape and all this

[Adam Schaefer]

stuff is that, I mean, so, I mean, for sure. Like, I, I mean, that's why I've always I. The breast augmentation. I've always understood more like, there's. You can't, you can't.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. You can't just add fat.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, you can't do that. But the glute, like, you can build that and build that way easier than a lot of other muscles. And so to go that route. And then. And it looks so much better when the hamstrings and the quads and everything come up with it. And so it looks way, way better to do that. But, I mean, we're getting off a little sidetrack. I know the point of this conversation was, you know, strategically, you know, what do you go about first is? You build. You build. You build that first. Yeah, you build that.

[Justin Andrews]

By the way, this conversation is important too, for people who are like, I just want to lose a bunch of weight. Like, I don't want it because we used to get, we get clients like this all the time. I don't really care about building a bunch of muscle. Yeah, it'd be cool if I'm a little stronger, but I just need to lose a lot of weight. So can we just focus on that? Not realizing that the building process makes the fat loss a lot easier and a lot more sustainable. So if your goal isn't to build any muscle, whatso you could care less about that, all you could care about is getting leaner. You still focus on building, which is always the first place.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. By the way, this is, this is not just for women. Like, everybody. You pick this goal of butt and waist. I mean, if a guy comes in and he's got a 30 pound overweight potbelly and small arms and chest and shoulders, and he goes, oh, I want to, I want to build my chest and shoulders. And I'd like to get rid of this, this pot belly. We still focus on building the chest and arms first. I don't worry about the pot belly. It's like, that's going to come down

[Justin Andrews]

which by the way, so just for people understand, getting leaner and building muscle together is quite difficult. However, your odds of both of them happening simultaneously are far better when you're focusing on building. Yes, it's zero. When you're focusing on just losing like your odds of building muscle while losing body fat while you're in a deficit, you could pretty much forget about it. But in a calorie surplus, high protein, good strength training, getting stronger, there's a decent chance that you'll actually get leaner through that process. And I used to see this with clients all the time. When I would train clients, I would always focus on building for a couple reasons. One, for the reason we just said. Two, because it was the easiest thing for me to influence as their personal trainer when I would meet them two or three days a week because I'm not with them every day with diet, I can't watch what they're, it's more difficult. So I would just, I would focus on that also because it's like this, we can totally impact right out the gates. And what would happen through this process almost simultaneously is it would get stronger and also get leaner. You would see some muscle gain and you'd see a little bit of a drop in body fat percentage even though we're focused on the building. And so this is like the best place to start regardless of what goal you have. And it sets you up so well. If you take someone who needs to lose 50 pounds and you focus on for six months, for six months, all we're focused on is getting stronger and building muscle. The fat loss process after that six month process is cake in comparison to you. Hire me. And right out the gates we try with fat loss, it's going to be very difficult in comparison, but you build that body up first. Oh my God, it's incredible.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What you can end up doing. So if you have to, you do have to pick one or the other, focus on building the butt. That one makes the biggest difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's, it's also easy, easier psychologically. You know, I, when you, you bring up the point like, so people have to be asking, like, listen, how does that, how does the science work on that? It doesn't make sense that one of them, you can, you can do both and the other one, you, you can only maybe do one. And it's like, really what's happening is if you do a proper bulk, where it's not a sloppy bulk, where you're just eating garbage and in a crazy high calorie surplus, then what really is happening and how it's possible that you can build muscle and kind of lean out at the same time is there's periods of that time in that quote unquote bulk when you're actually kind of in a, in a deficit where the body actually starts to lean out a little bit because your bulk is so minimal, you're only bulking 250, maybe 500 calories. So there's actually periods of time when you're in a little bit of this deficit and so the body then leans out a little bit while you also have other times where you're a little

[Justin Andrews]

bit in a surplus.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so it actually has an ability to build. And so you're hovering more close to maintenance. A little bit surplus versus what most people do, which is go into a cut. And a cut basically just ensures to your point that, okay, you might cut and lose some body fat, but you certainly aren't building muscle. You don't have the material to.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. Which also. Here's another part of it. If, if you're listening to this right now, and I magically added 10 pounds of lean body mass on your body with no additional body fat, nothing, just pure lean body mass, your body fat percentage dropped because body fat percentage is your body fat as a percentage of your overall body weight. So your body weight went up 10 pounds because of lean body mass. You're actually leaner. Even though you didn't lose a single pound of body fat, you're now leaner because that lean body mass, not to mention the increase in metabolic rate, not to mention you've just improved your body's ability to burn more calories because you have more active lean tissue. Not to mention, here's the other part that people, that we often don't communicate, which is if you have a guy that's sitting at, let's say, let's say he's at 19 body fat. So he's like 4 or 5% above what would be considered kind of like Fit athletic. Not six pack, but 15 is kind of like fit athletic, but you don't have, you know, visible abs or whatever. Let's say he's at 19. A man at 19 with good muscle mass underneath, looks way different. Way different.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like you're talking about me right now. Well, we were as I was at 18.2.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what I'm saying? And I just couldn't wrap my, I couldn't wrap my brain around it.

[Justin Andrews]

Imagine being 18 right now, same body fat percentage, but 15 pounds less. Well, so you would look way different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, there's pictures of me that I was. I was 19 point. I think 19.2 or 19.7 when I did my transformation.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it looks so different.

[Adam Schaefer]

And if you looked at what I look like right now, like, versus what I look like when I was not lifting weights and I just let myself get up to 19 body fat, huge difference. In fact, I should look for. I mean, I have. If you go deep enough on my Instagram, you can find.

[Justin Andrews]

What a great point. It's not just about body fat percentage because of the same. Same body fat. It's just one has more muscle, one has less muscle. It looks very different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very, very different.

[Justin Andrews]

This is true for women, too. Most women would probably want to sit around 21 to 23% body fat, fit, healthy, lean. But a woman at 28 or 29% body fat with muscle looks way different than 28, 29.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I'll tell you that because I do remember the weights and I remember the weights and the body fat percentage. So check this out. So I wish I should have taken a picture for everybody, so I didn't think about this being a fun comparison. So when I did that original. The original, not the last transmission everybody saw me do two years ago. I'm talking about the first one I did.

[Justin Andrews]

Right, the one where you first went on social.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. There's a picture of me in the mirror. Yeah. Whenever I first started. Right. So this is.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you look way different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So I am 212lbs and 19 body.

[Justin Andrews]

212.

[Adam Schaefer]

212 and 19 body fat. Where I'm at right now, or what I did last, what, two weeks ago when I did that test was 233 pounds and 18 body fat.

[Justin Andrews]

So almost the same body fat percentage.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

20. 20 more pounds. 20 more pounds body mass.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Looks way different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Radically different. Like so much to the point where Katrina was just like. Yeah, that's not right. There's no way. That's so much different. It's. It's crazy how that can make such a difference. Because from about body representative, not technically that much better.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But looks night and day difference because I'm carrying so much lean, lean body mass on me. So it's.

[Eli]

And there's not a lot of charts out there that really depict that well either.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Eli]

Based off of, like, oh, well, percentages, you want to kind of fall in this range. But it's like, you know, to understand that you put muscle on top of that body itself is going to totally.

[Justin Andrews]

It adds shape, it adds curve. It adds firmness. It looks very different. You're absolutely right. I would love. That would be such a great and powerful picture depiction because typically what we'll do is we'll show, yeah. You know, a 200 pound man in two pictures, one lean and one not lean, which obviously looks radically different. Right. Know 12% body fat, 200 pounds, 25 body fat, you know, 200 pounds. They look radically different, but we don't often see which is also same body fat percentage.

[Adam Schaefer]

But give that guy 25 pounds of muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. And do it with women too. A woman with way more lean body mass. Same body fat percentage and heavier on the scale. Yeah, way, way different. Way heavier. Way heavier. Looks way different. Looks curved.

[Eli]

So psychologically like beneficial, especially I think for women because to the points of like bringing that trainer example in and like telling them how much she weighs, like, it's like that's such a profound thing sometimes it is.

[Justin Andrews]

Not to mention from a health perspective, you guys, like if you're strong and fit in the sense that you've got good function, decent stamina, good strength, body fat percentage, you know, like again, I'll use the numbers for men and women. 19% for a man, let's say 29% or 30% for a woman, which is above what you know, it's a good 6, 7% above where people would say they'd want to be. But one of them is fit, strong and has some stamina. The other one is just sitting at that body fat percentage. Their health is way different. Way different. Oh yeah. Health markers, Way different. Longevity, well, way different. Quality of life, way different. Hormone profile, way different. It's as if muscle is this active miracle tissue that people just don't realize.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is why I keep, I mean I keep, you know, sounding the trumpets about what Gabriel Lyons messages is so, so important. And I think it's, it's so much more true. We and we. And it's like, can we change that conversation? It's like we actually really don't have an obesity problem. We have an under muscle problem. We, that's really because a lot of these people that are quote unquote, 30 to 50 pounds overweight if they were the exact same weight, but that weight, 20 of that 30 pounds or whatever, like that was muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, very different.

[Adam Schaefer]

You have a radically different body and health markers.

[Justin Andrews]

I remember, I don't know if it was in the 90s where they started, they would show imaging of people who were, you know, in the category of obese and they showed how much muscle they Had. So these were sedentary people who were obese. And the belief used to be that if you were overweight, you probably already also had more lean body mass. And the rationale was you're bigger carrying all that weight.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I usually think that's true.

[Justin Andrews]

They have less muscle. Sarcopenia is very common, prevalent. Yeah, that's right. So the question is, does it cause the obesity? Does it contribute to the obesity? Yes, it, yeah, when you're muscled it does. It definitely does. And you're right, this, my, my. I mean they're my favorite studies. Not because I like the outcome but because I think they really demonstrate. What we're talking about are these grip strength tests, studies on college aged males. It's wild, you guys like. And grip strength is just a proxy for overall body, you know, body strength. So it's an easy way to test if you're strong, can you recruit muscles on command? The last, it was 2015. So it was something like that. It was like maybe, maybe eight years ago. They did one where college aged males today have the average grip strength of a 50 something year old in 1986 or 60 year old in 19. It was ridiculous. Like they're as strong as like their grandfathers were, you know, as a grandfather was in the 1980s. Just to kind of illustrate how weak we've become because our lives require very little strength and so our bodies adapt. Yeah, our bodies adapt.

[Adam Schaefer]

How much of a role do you think monkey bars played?

[Eli]

Oh God, all those old videos. I mean, I revisit that a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think, I think about that for just a second.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, we used to play.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everybody in here, everybody in this room grew up swinging and playing on monkey bars. Yeah, right.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

When was the last time you saw a kid do that?

[Eli]

I mean, Brianna, all the time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did she?

[Eli]

Yeah, but they were the anomaly, the. To your point, like that's. None of the kids were just like inclined to go.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean every, every school playground had them. That was like, that was, that was like a standard thing that everybody had and you just did.

[Eli]

Not to mention that bouncy, rubbery surface is detrimental too for kids as well. Like they've, they've done research on that.

[Justin Andrews]

What is it? What's detrimental about.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, so aside from his tire rubber. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The chemical exposure is one big part of it. But like.

[Eli]

Yeah, I think it's some somehow like the, the impact of it like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Too soft, is it?

[Eli]

Yeah, it's too soft. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Interesting.

[Eli]

I have to, I'll have to go back and research the Study. I don't really remember, like, what they found, but it was problematic.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I mean, I remember. I remember like a simple game. And I'm trying to remember at what age did I stop doing. Doing this. It was probably for sure by high school, but definitely all the way through, you know, middle school, we were doing this. But you would, like how you would swing and see how many you could skip.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And go. And back. Going back where? I mean, that was like a part of a normal day.

[Justin Andrews]

Physical, hard, physical play was what we did. Yeah, that's. That's how you played because you went outside and you did.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I bring up that because I know you bring up the grip strength test so much, and I think that being able to hang from a monkey bar is, like, great for the, like the, the dead hang test that we all test, that everybody talks about so much now about. And that we all. Everybody fails at and the, the grip strength. And it's like, I wonder how much when you look at our society as a whole.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

That, that, that just, just. No, no monkey bars.

[Justin Andrews]

They're just not playing physically. Kids now play electronically. They're just. That's how they meet up with each other. That's how they play. You guys ever watch those?

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, they still got recess at school.

[Justin Andrews]

They do, but that's it.

[Eli]

That's what's structured. I think.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know, but that's. That's what it wasn't like when you went home.

[Justin Andrews]

When you went home, did you stop playing or were you outside playing?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but I wasn't doing something in particular for my grip strength.

[Justin Andrews]

Forget the grip strength. You were just stronger. Everything you did was physical. You weren't. When you got home, there was nothing to do other than go outside and go throw football, run, wrestle, climb trees. Like, you know, you weren't at home. You weren't sitting down. You know, if you were that kid at home sitting there, you're the weird kid. When we were growing up, like, nobody did that. You were outside, dude. There was nothing to do inside.

[Eli]

You're sick.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Now it's like, I've told my.

[Eli]

That's actually something I tell my kids all the time. Like, you know, like, the kids that do that, they're the ones that were sick all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Eli]

I don't understand you guys at all. Like, yeah, like, what's wrong?

[Justin Andrews]

What's funny? It's like I make this joke all the time. It's like when we were. When we were kids, the punishment was, go to your room now. It's like, get out of your room and go outside. Yeah. And you got to set a timer. Go stay outside for 45 minutes.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Or whatever. You guys ever watch those videos? I think we brought it up before on the show of playgrounds in the 50s, bro. They were dangerous.

[Adam Schaefer]

Die. I told you, once a year, we lose a kid.

[Eli]

You know, actually, the Monkey bar is where I broke my arm. So it was like. It was not. It was like 12 foot. It wasn't even, like, 10. It was like. Like higher than the normal. And I just fell right on my arm and broke it. And then that same year, I broke it again. We were playing.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at that, bro. Dude, look at the size of that playground. Look what kids are climbing. I know that no way a parent would let their kid climb. Look at that. He's sitting on the top of that thing. And that's. How high do you think that is? Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

It's wild that we. It's wild how much that. How much society played a role, that it's even conditioned you. Like, you wouldn't do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. No. That terrifies me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right? You wouldn't let your kid do that.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

But yet we know that. We know that that was a part of our society, and that was normal. Yet you would freak out if you saw your kid.

[Eli]

It freaked me out. I actually intentionally tried, and that was, like, rough because we'd go to the dog park, and there was, like, these trees, and the kids were inclined to climb the trees, and they get to a point where you get, like, about halfway. I'm like, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, hey, guys.

[Eli]

You know, Then they keep going all

[Justin Andrews]

the way to the top.

[Eli]

And I felt like the parents around me were going to call CPS or something.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Eli]

And I'm just like. And so I'd have to, like, coach him. Like, okay, we can't go, like, that high. Like, maybe, like, midway.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is an area where Katrina and I are challenged. Because I'm. I. I know I have to do more of that with him. And my son's not inclined to do stuff like, shoot. I just. The fact. The last pictures I took of him and I posted, you know, you know, I read on his private thing that I post is stuff like, once a week. It's actually. I'm like. I get so excited to see him take risk because he just doesn't. He doesn't do enough of that. Like, it's like. And he needs to do more than that. And him and his buddy had built this, you know, fake bridge between his two beds and they were jumping and flying across, you know, the bed. I'm just like. That's like the. And then it's.

[Justin Andrews]

Because.

[Adam Schaefer]

Come on, dude. It's a bed. The pillows. But I mean, I can't. He doesn't climb trees. I can't get him to do stuff like that. He's not into anything like that. I remember when we tried to do gymnastics for. Way back when, when he was right before COVID and then Covet hit, which kind of threw a monkey wrench and everything. But I. I want him to do more stuff like that. Kids just are not inclined well to want to do that stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Let me ask you this. Here's something that's crazy, right? When we were kids in elementary school, there was always, always at least one kid, if not two, who had a cast on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, Always, Always, always.

[Justin Andrews]

That was me. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Justin was a kid always signing a cast.

[Justin Andrews]

It's actually pretty rare now, I think,

[Adam Schaefer]

to see that was a thing. Your friend signed your cast.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep. Like, that was a thing. That's how. That's how common aware. That was a common theme in school, that you signed somebody's cast.

[Justin Andrews]

You remember that? Yeah, I do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like ever. You get a cast and all your friends have their signature on your cast. Yeah, that was like a thing. You don't see that ever?

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Eli]

I wonder if. If like, er visits have dropped, you know, or it changed into more like chemicals or, you know, like. I swear, I like switches over into something else typically.

[Adam Schaefer]

Look up the. Look at the. What, the percentage of kids break their kids under. Yeah, 15. Breaking their bones versus our kids.

[Justin Andrews]

Are kids breaking their arms less common today or something like that?

[Eli]

I feel like those numbers probably.

[Adam Schaefer]

Which is interesting because I don't see kids. Well, here's the thing that's. That's interesting about that because you would think malnutrition would play a role too. And so we're less nutritious than we would be. So you would think that would.

[Justin Andrews]

But they're not doing anything that would break.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. That's that. So what my point is, if the number went down in a time when we are less nutritious, we're eating less nutritious food. It would. It would be. It's kind of crazy when you think about that because. And it just shows you how much, much less risk we're taking, you know,

[Justin Andrews]

the whole nutritious thing, though, I'll push back on that because we grew up in the 90s. We ate garbage. Everybody ate garbage in the 90s, you guys. It's not like it was radically. Maybe when Doug was microwave food, but when we were kids, you had squeezes. That's what you were drinking. It was. It was Candy Sun. Everybody had Twinkies in their lunch. It was like white.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you think our generation eats horses? This generation? I don't think so.

[Justin Andrews]

The kids?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. I don't. By. By the way, by no means do I think our generation was good, but I don't think this generation's better. I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

Not better. No, not better. Yeah, but I don't think they're worse.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I don't think that either.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but what does that say? Well, that's a percentage down from 2008 to 2017. I'd like to know.

[Eli]

From like, 1980, 80s, 90s.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah. Because by that point, I mean, kids were still. But it did show there was a drop, so. I know. Isn't that funny?

[Adam Schaefer]

How much. Does co, though, play a huge role in that, too? Although, actually, no, that would put everybody outside.

[Eli]

Although I did see the other day, like, there was some kids in the neighborhood setting up ramps.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Eli]

I was like, yeah, ramps. And this kid is. He's skateboarding through, and then they hit each other. Like, he jumped off. And I was like, oh, man. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at this data, dude. Data suggests a 12 decrease in overall fractures since the 1980s. But there's other research that shows a 32 to 56% rise in specific forearm fractures due to calcium deficiency and low bone mass. Scroll. Click. Show more, because that's a. So in Finland, there was a drop from 1983 to 2005. 18%. Then there's the forearm. Fractures in children increased because of what you're saying. Lower bone mass. Wow. Children in 2017, 2018. Whoa. 10 to 11. Lower bone density than 1979. 1981.

[Sal Destefano]

Wow.

[Eli]

Whoa, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

10 to 11. Lower bone Density.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Monkey bars.

[Eli]

Stressed, dude. If you're not stressed.

[Adam Schaefer]

Monkey dog. Monkey bars.

[Eli]

Yeah, it's.

[Justin Andrews]

It's.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm serious.

[Justin Andrews]

Think about what.

[Adam Schaefer]

What else is strengthening your forearm muscles and your hands and your grip and everything than that as a kid that you're doing.

[Justin Andrews]

No, kids are not doing red rose.

[Adam Schaefer]

No kids are out there doing wrist curls or doing forearm exercises. You're. You're hanging from. You're hanging from monkey bars and climbing trees, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

You ever look at old pictures? Like, sometimes I look at old pictures, like family pictures, right. Like, when my dad was younger, my grandfather and I look at it. I'm like, God, they look like they could beat the crap out of, like, the kid. Like, like, they probably could. Were they just. They were. They were just tougher.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because they were stress tested.

[Adam Schaefer]

Great depression will do that to you.

[Justin Andrews]

They also look older.

[Eli]

It hardens you.

[Adam Schaefer]

You ever see.

[Justin Andrews]

You ever see, like, there's old movies and they'll show the actor, like, he was 30 in this movie. Like, dude looks like he was 45. Like, what's going on?

[Eli]

I feel like just going into, like, cold weather environments did that for me. Like, just going into Chicago, I was like, oh. Just always just tight and hunkered down, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

How cold did it get out there?

[Eli]

Dude, it was like 30 below, like, wind chill my first year I was there.

[Justin Andrews]

30 below.

[Eli]

I've never experienced that. Like, it obviously here we don't you get like, up to like, candlestick. I'd go every now and then it was like, you know, oh, this sucks. But it was like, that was probably like negative 5 or something.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, isn't it Chicago, the places where they had those, like, if you. I'm sure if Doug will come online. The pictures of like, when the wind is like, crazy and it's freezing cold and the cars look like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it looks like the ice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

They've had like, ice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

Yeah. Where it just covers the entire city.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Eli]

And you can't. You can't get in your car. Yeah. I was just. Wasn't ready for that. I was wearing like three sweatshirts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, there it is right there. Like, pictures like that. I've seen pictures like that before.

[Justin Andrews]

That's crazy. I don't like. I don't like cold weather. Like, what do you do?

[Adam Schaefer]

You're just like, not going to work today.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're not getting into that.

[Eli]

Yeah. There's tunnels and things to connect is downtown. But like. Yeah, you have to really prepare and

[Justin Andrews]

plan around your day.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. When we were in Colorado, it was cool. But it's a different kind of cold.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because Chicago's got the wind and they

[Adam Schaefer]

had the wind and the water. Canada, just the other wind and the water. Colorado is dry and so it's not. Doesn't.

[Justin Andrews]

Like I remember.

[Adam Schaefer]

I remember the opposite. Like, it would trip me out. I remember that first time coming down. So I used to have to. We lived in this kind of cabin right above this, like, trailer park. Anyway, this long dirt road to where I had to walk down to. To get to school. I mean, to the bus stop. And you know, I remember walking down as a kid in. In the snow and there's, you know, five feet of snow next to, you know, and a T shirt and it's minus three. But it doesn't.

[Justin Andrews]

It.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, minus three somewhere else feels. I mean, like you said San Francisco, 30 degrees with wind is like freezing cold.

[Eli]

Yeah, it's a whole nother.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So it's a. It's wild how like you could be a different, like climates like that where the temperature isn't just the. The only factor. But Chicago out here is like that.

[Justin Andrews]

I was for sure made for the heat. Like, I don't mind heat. Make it halt all day long. Humid. I don't care. I'm comfortable. Cold.

[Eli]

I would die.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm done, dude. I can't stand it. Yeah, we had. I had buddies that went up to Tahoe. Was it last weekend when it got super crazy snow up there? Oh, yeah. So my buddy, he's. He's been out. He's lived out here for a while, but he's like, hey, man, we're gonna go up to Tahoe. First time ever going. I'm not a big fan of snow, but the kids really want to go, bro, he picked the wrong weekend, dude. Do you know how long it took him to get up there? 15 hours.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've been stuck on. I've been stuck on 80 before.

[Justin Andrews]

15 hours.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've been stuck on times work where everybody just gets out of their car and there's their snowball fights and everybody's just. No, I'm serious. You just. You're not. It's not moving. It's not moving. And you're just. So everybody just gets out of the car and they're hanging out. And what if you have to go poop?

[Justin Andrews]

Like, what do you do? That's always my worry. Like, you're stuck and you're just like, what do you do? You're stuck on the road. Nobody's.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I've never had to go poop, but I've had to go pee in that's on that road. And then you just go, you'll find a tree.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure, sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's not a big deal. But having to go.

[Justin Andrews]

If you got a number two, like,

[Eli]

you're always keep wipes in your car, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I do, because I have little kids.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, yeah, with kids. That would be nightmare. Do you have. Did he have kids with him?

[Justin Andrews]

He had his kids with him.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, God.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I was like at least a young adult. You know what I'm saying? So that's like, whatever, I'm bored. And my buddies and I are stressful, dude. But with kids, that would be a nightmare because I could just imagine kids being stuck in a car for 15 years. Forget that.

[Justin Andrews]

Speaking of kids and playing, dude, I was playing with my five year old and my three year old. So my five year old's boy, right? Three year old's a girl. And it's so funny to see the difference in how they play. This is kind of stereotypical of, like boys and girls, but we all have these, like. I have a bat in my hand. It's like a. It's a long foam bat. My son's got a shield, my daughter's got a sword. And I'm like, all right, we're gonna go kill dragons. All the pillows on the couches are dragons. Let's go. Right? So we're out there, like, killing dragons. And so my daughter stops, she goes. And she has to tell a story behind it. Well, this dragon, he came from this place and then his mom, and she's got to create this complex story around the whole thing. Kill it. Let's just blast. And she's always telling. She's like creating this whole complex scenario. She's three, dude. And I'm cracking up. I'm like, you don't have to make a story. And then she picked up. My son has. This is hilarious. He has a plastic T ball bat. But it's hard, you know, but it's the one that you hit the bat with. Yeah. So we're killing dragons. And then just out of nowhere, I thought. She thought. She thought it'd be funny. She grabbed the bat, she blasted me full speed with that bunk. I'm like, oh, honey. She's laughing. I'm like, that was hard, dude. That was a little hard, honey.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we're trying to. We're. Right now, we're really trying to implement the money stuff right now. So the, like, the save, the give and the invest. So I'm trying to.

[Justin Andrews]

That's so great. I gotta do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's like, it's just. It's a process. Like, I don't know if it's because we're. I'm early, you know what I'm saying? Trying to figure that out. Like, he's still trying to wrap his brain around it, but the latest, obviously, he's been into Legos forever, so Katrina and I are now like, okay, it's time to implement the money thing. And so let's start to create these little jobs, ways he can earn it. I think I told you guys that, like, he spent like all of his money on his, on his Lego. He was like, okay with that. And then he knew too, like, hey, we're not gonna get another one until you do like chores and, or do jobs, right? So, and so, you know, fully. Laundry. I showed you guys the picture of the, the toilets and stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. So if it was. He cleaned, he cleaned the toilets and everything.

[Justin Andrews]

You had him clean the toilets?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was $10 a toilet. You know what I'm saying?

[Justin Andrews]

It's not bad. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Make 30 bucks, you know, since you made 30 bucks by doing the toilets, because how old your son, huh? Six.

[Justin Andrews]

Six cleaning toilets.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, so he's so, so listen, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's clean the toilet. He looks up at my tree, goes, this is, this is way harder than washing the car with daddy. He just. And then he's. And he gets out, he's upstairs in the master bedroom, and he's like, he's like, mommy, somebody peed on the floor. And she's like, well, who do you think did that? And he was probably daddy.

[Justin Andrews]

No, probably you, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's you who misses the toilet all over the place. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I was like, so Katrina sends me. I was out running errands and there's this like, you know, $30T. Rex logo that he wants. And she sends me that. He's already doing the chores and stuff like that, to add it up, to figure out how much he has to get. And so, like, I'm super proud of him. Well, I'm going over to her mom's house to pick up chicken soup for, for us because we're sick. And I'm like, super proud that like, he, he was the one who came up. He was asking her what can we do? And the reason why we came with toy, I'm like, I don't know what the hell else he can do. He helped her fold laundry. That was something. I was like, okay, well, you could do the toilets. We could do something like that as a project, see if you want to do that. And he was totally down, so we said, okay. It was too rainy and cold to do the, the cars. So I'm over there picking up the soup from my mother in law and Katrina sends me those pictures that he's doing that, so I know he's gonna have enough to do that. And so he has this relationship with my, my mother in law where she's always gifting him and Stuff like that. And so this. The soft part of me is Dad. I go like, oh, you know, I'm gonna swing by, I'm gonna pick up that Lego, and I'll say, it came from Nana. You know what I'm saying? So. Because I actually want him to take this money and save it, you know, so I'm trying to teach the saving.

[Justin Andrews]

But you can't give him the thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly.

[Justin Andrews]

You created the job.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. So I. So I. I come home and I. I bring in the soup. And then, you know, Daddy tells me he cleaned. Cleaned it. Dad tells me what he's earned and stuff like that. And, you know, I can get the thing. I said, hey, guess what I said when I went and saw Nana. I said, she had a gift for you. He's like, what? What did you. And he gets all excited. I go outside, I grab it, and I. And I head to him, and it's. It's the T. Rex logo or whatever. So he. Oh, that was so. That totally. I didn't see that coming. He makes a big old deal about it, and he's. He's open up, and he's sitting there, and Katrina told me earlier. She's like, you know, he's tired. He's feeling under the weather. And when my son is like that, he's, like, a little emotional. And she's like, he's emotional today. And I'm like, oh, really? And I'm like, why? She's like, he's just not feeling good. So he's over there, and he's doing the Legos. And I hear Katrina kind of, like, talking to him. It's okay, buddy. And so with that. And he's. He's starting to cry, and I'm like. I'm like, what the. Doesn't make sense. He just got this thing. He's all happy. And so I come over and I'm like, hey, what's going on? And he's. And he's trying to, like, get control of his crying and get his emotions. And. And she's like. Like, it was the wrong. It was the wrong Lego.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

And. And he's like. He goes, I know. I know this, but he doesn't want

[Justin Andrews]

to let you know that. He's like.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's like, I know this. This is a gift from Nana. And I. I'm. I'm not crying. I'm. I'm. And he's, like, trying. He's getting control, and he's just, like. He's talking himself, and he's getting his breath and And I just, like, give him his space or whatever like that. And then she. She. Katrina pulled me aside and she's like, it was. It's the wrong lego.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not the one that he wanted, but he knows it's a gift from Nana, so he doesn't want her.

[Justin Andrews]

And so.

[Adam Schaefer]

But watching him try and, like, work through that, so it's so interesting. I've seen this now with him multiple times where it's so cool to see how aware he is.

[Justin Andrews]

He's aware of the great. Being grateful.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

But he also has, of course, his disappointment.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. He's a little kid, and I remember being a little kid, like that fact I have a very vivid memory.

[Justin Andrews]

Even adults are like that expectation.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right, right. And so he knows that he doesn't want to be ungrateful or cry or want about it and stuff like that. And so he's like, fighting these, like, these natural emotions to cry.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you get him the other one?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, so, yeah, we win eventually. Of course. Especially because the way he handled it, you know, saying like, he literally. He didn't throw a tantrum. He wasn't even crying. He was like. You could tell. He's, like, holding it and fighting back. And I hear Katrina talking. I'm like, what are you guys talking? What's going on? What's that? Oh, it's the wrong. It's the wrong Lego. The one I up.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying? The one time I did that, because that was a big deal. Like, if you got something and then it wasn't what you wanted, but you were upset about it. Like, I would get. It's not a good thing when I. When I grew up. Right. My dad grew up poor, so they have their own thing. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

But I remember, and I was probably 12, I want to say, and I got my gift from Santa. Not that I still believe in Santa, but I have little younger siblings, so I still got a Santa gift.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it wasn't the Nintendo. And I got something else. And I kind of was sad about it because I thought I was gonna get the Nintendo. And I was really sad about it. And I'll never forget this. My dad, I think it was the day after, he's like, hey, why? You know, I saw you were upset, like, what's going on? And my dad's. He didn't talk to me this way, so it was a big deal. And so I told him I thought I was gonna get the Nintendo. And he's like, okay. And then he walks Away and he goes, follow me. So I went in the car and he drove me the toy store and bought me the Nintendo. Oh, never forget that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh. So I have. I have a same age too. I'm right around probably like 8, 9, 10, somewhere around that age. And my grandma was the one who always got like the big Christmas gift. And like, so. And that year I wanted a remote control car. And like, I was like, so those

[Justin Andrews]

are a big deal back.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, it was a huge deal. And I. I knew. I knew grandma would come. Yeah. Come through with like the. And. And I open it and it is a.

[Justin Andrews]

Is it the one with the cord?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, no. Every boy.

[Adam Schaefer]

I remember being devastated, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Just.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just devastated that, you know, And. And so I like that. Oh, yeah. I was like, ruined my whole day, you know what I'm saying? Like, my grandma came through on Christmas every year on what I wanted, you know what I'm saying? And it's like I'm at an age where, like, I wanted, like, the gas powered, like, I'm ready. I'm ready for like the real deal, like, remote control. And she got me one with like a cord to it.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, I'm four.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, bro, I was devastated. I mean, I remember crying all the whole. Whole deal. And so when I saw that, like, immense. Immediately put me back in that. And I'm like, man, just the. The level of control.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That he has.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, and. And to communicate it so that I'm like, dude. So it was so much better than

[Justin Andrews]

I remember the stupid remote control cars that they would go forward, but the only way to turn is to go backwards. If you went backwards, you remember? That sucks, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I think the cord is the worst.

[Justin Andrews]

That's. That's another level. It's only gonna go four feet everywhere.

[Adam Schaefer]

Super slow.

[Justin Andrews]

We had the technology. Why we still.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

Just run over my GI Joes.

[Adam Schaefer]

But, you know, it's crazy as a kid, like, you can't you. Those emotions, they. Whether, you know, you're trying to figure all that stuff out. So to watch him try and to. To work it out is pretty wild, you know, it's pretty wild to be that.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, I got to ask you guys, when we did the. The big photo shoot with Ketone IQ too. Oh, was that your first times for both of you guys taking, like, multiple servings in a day?

[Eli]

Oh, in the same day? Yeah, for me it was.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because I. Because I do two to three.

[Eli]

I've done one typically, but yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

What do you guys Think I, I, so I, I took it again yesterday and today I, I like it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm on a kick now. Ever since we had to do all that because, because I did feel so good because I'm drinking caffeine, so they have the ones that are non caffeinated too, so I can still, I could still do that and, and feel the benefit. I speak ketone iq. I thought the best part of that day was the meeting the guy who did it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, he's great.

[Eli]

Oh, yeah. And literally was like, Justin, how, how random was that?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Eli]

And he went to my high school.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Eli]

Like, dude, of course you have the same kind of humor.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is me. The fact that he was, when we pulled up his YouTube channel, that he was responsible for that Fitness Scared. What's it called?

[Eli]

Scared Shitless Fitness.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, Scared Shitless Fitness. I shared that video with so many of my friends.

[Eli]

Yeah, it was on Comedy Central there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

So his group that did like, sketch comedy, I think they're called the Clunes. But yeah, yeah, it was weird because I was like, oh, I've totally seen all their videos. Remember all that? Like, vividly.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you guys gone hilarious. Have you got. Because this channel. Because they sold the Comedy Central. He doesn't do it anymore. But have you guys gone through.

[Eli]

They go hard, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean, one of their top

[Justin Andrews]

videos is for a product called the Thruster.

[Eli]

Oh, I haven't seen that one, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

The best part was that we had spent the whole day with him.

[Justin Andrews]

I love it.

[Adam Schaefer]

We spent the whole day with him doing all this, the shooting and stuff like that, for all the ads and commercials to come out later. And it wasn't until the end when we got into the studio to do this part, that that conversation comes up. And you're over there. We ask him, oh, you had a YouTube channel. He had a big YouTube channel back in the day, like 15 years ago or more.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so you're over there looking at it and you're like, oh, my God. Oh, this is. And then I see the title of it. I'm like, oh, this is so just. This is so justice.

[Justin Andrews]

The Thruster one. It's a bit inappropriate, but it's like there's this couple and they're like, oh, you know, let's get into it. Like, I'm kind of tired. It's like, are you sometimes too tired or whatever? Introducing the Thruster. And so you put it on you and your partner, and it does the work for you. Hey. And they're like, really? They're like, do it while sleeping. Do it while reading.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what I felt? I can only imagine how good Justin felt because I felt it for you. It was so to. To feel the validation for the ads that Justin had years ago, to show him that, right? To show somebody that. That does that professionally because, you know,

[Eli]

obviously they crushed it and they. They, you know, got signed and all that. But, you know, so I'm just like, ah. We were just like, meddling and trying ideas and. Yeah. To have him watch that. And he was just, like, into it. Yeah, it was.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, he was very impressed. Like, you could see. You could see it on him. I mean, he sat like, Indian style in the middle of our floor and, like, watched all your ads because he was just like, this is so good. Like, cool.

[Eli]

That's like one of those hidden passions.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's.

[Eli]

I wish it worked, you know, with our business. You know, who knows? Like, at some point it might, you

[Adam Schaefer]

know, I went back and watched them all over again, and I don't know where we have. We put them on the YouTube channel. So they can. Can they. We should put them out there so they just. So we can. At least people can search them and find them because they're so good. I know you have. You have them on your Instagram.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You put them in your. Your bubbles. Yeah. Your little bubbles or whatever like that. But, dude, that. The. The juve one is probably my favorite.

[Justin Andrews]

The jump alien.

[Eli]

Dude, that's the most ridiculous.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, those were so. Those were so good, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Make commercials.

[Adam Schaefer]

You guys say that. Hey, you guys always give.

[Eli]

Dude, dude, ask Eli. He did a lot of that for. With me. And we worked. It was just me and Eli like, coming up and then doing all that. And like, I mean, he went out of his way to help me try to, like, do something with that. So he didn't. He didn't charge even near what he should have, you know, for those.

[Adam Schaefer]

What. You know what, though, is such an example of how different we are. I mean, right before we got this podcast, I was telling you guys this. The way my brain works is like, you know, how cheap, how inexpensive.

[Justin Andrews]

What's.

[Adam Schaefer]

How can I test this theory? Like, it's fast. As fast and as quick as possible to get a. Get an answer. And Justin's like, elaborate. I go, complex. You give him. And he's just like, I am gonna.

[Justin Andrews]

He's creative, dude. He's got that creative mind.

[Eli]

Hanging out with you guys has helped me to really bring that and distill it down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

So, like, the Core of it. And so I feel like.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know, man. We might be at a place now where we need that dude. We might be in a place where we need that creativity.

[Adam Schaefer]

Maybe that's why I want to put it out there again. I think when the. I think as those. Those. Those companies. And I would love for you to. I mean, yeah, he wanted to link up, so I would love for you to do some collab. I know it's been a long time since we did that, and I know Doug probably freaks out just hearing that, going like, oh, great. Just what we needed.

[Justin Andrews]

More.

[Adam Schaefer]

More distractions. But it's like, I agree with you, Sal. I think that stuff is getting so AI fake whack produced, that something authentic and funny and real like that. Like that.

[Justin Andrews]

I can't think up that stuff. I just.

[Eli]

I don't know. I like original ideas. Like, there's just so much carbon copying of. This is the trend. And this is the trend. This is the algorithm. It's like, I don't even get impressed anymore.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why I think. That's why I think. I think you now, maybe you were just way, way too out of your time, bro. Yeah, I think you're everything

[Eli]

I'm over in the future. Once it caught up, it's like dead news, you know, we got AI for that now.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, speaking of news, dude, are you guys seeing what's happening in Mexico? Yeah. Oh, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

Puerto Varto, too, which is like, where a highly traveled place.

[Justin Andrews]

It's locked down. And the cartel. It's a car. It's a war. So how did it start? They killed one of these cartel leaders and then it spurred this crazy government. Yes, yes. So military government, whatever. And I mean, it's to a point where, like, highways are shut down, airports are shut down. Airports are getting taken over.

[Eli]

They were.

[Justin Andrews]

Hostages are being taken.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Gas stations, civilians are getting their. Like, are driving on freeways, getting pulled over. Cars get set up on fire. Like, it's. Bro, the videos coming out of Mexico in some of these areas is crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you say that you heard that? We are going to get involved.

[Justin Andrews]

So there's a couple things. Trump's like, let us do something. And then also they're trying to put forward a bill that will allow the US to hire. I don't know what you call them, but, like, private mercenaries. I mean, they don't use that term because essentially that is so it's like all these retired, like, Special Forces guys

[Adam Schaefer]

that are like, so what would our. Sal, what is our. As why would, why would the US get involved in that? What's. What's the desire?

[Justin Andrews]

Because it spills over. And the cartel, you know, they're responsible for a huge percentage of the drugs that come over the border. And so if, like, if you need, if you want to stop that, then you need to go after the cartel. But the cartel is like wealthy and powerful. Have you seen the pictures of what they own for their military?

[Adam Schaefer]

They look more. They look more military than the Mexican.

[Justin Andrews]

Mexican military.

[Adam Schaefer]

Military, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Like full body armor, night vision.

[Eli]

Hopefully the CIA doesn't fund them this time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just gotta put that out there, drop that conspiracy.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, you want to hear conspiracy theory? Did you hear about the files they dropped? And this was government stuff in the 1950s. I love it when they drop it a million years later. Right? Did you hear about what they just dropped? Dude. So declassified. This is declassified. They just declassified these CIA files. So these are documents that basically reveal a blueprint to manipulate minds through covert drugging experiments. This was called Project Artichoke and it ran from 1951 to 1956. It focused on behavior control, interrogation techniques and psychological manipulation. And they looked at chemicals. How can we use chemicals to manipulate people? How can we put it in the air? Put it in water, alcohol, cigarettes, by the way, another thing that we could do is put them in vaccines or injections. This was in. This was literally their plan. Government, CIA documents. This was operate. You can look it up and read it. Many of these files were just stored in the 1970s, so we don't know the full extent of what happened.

[Eli]

Finger and eye.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is that the same time? What was the other one?

[Justin Andrews]

MK Ultra?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, part of it. Okay, that was part. I was gonna say. That's right. It sounds like very similar to MK Ultra stuff. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

So before. It was before MK Ultra.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, okay, so MK ULTRA was later.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So emerging from projects, in other words.

[Adam Schaefer]

In other words, never has stopped.

[Eli]

No, that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

In other words, it's still going.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh man. Isn't it wild? So they were discussing methods for drugging entire populations.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

That was our own government. Oh my God. It involved secret program emphasizing that long term compounds should be capable of producing an agitating effect. Anxiety, nervousness, tension, or a depressing effect. Feelings of despondency, hopelessness. Lethargy.

[Eli]

Yeah, but you're crazy for questioning things.

[Adam Schaefer]

So have you guys got, have you guys got any like phone calls from friends or, or family? Some of that like apologizing for all the, like how wrong everybody was?

[Justin Andrews]

No, most of my family Member. We're just. We're Sicilian. We don't trust anybody. Anyway. So when this comes out, it's like, oh, my uncle. I told you. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. We're just. They're just naturally skeptical.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but. So I don't have a lot of family.

[Eli]

Well, they're still fighting on, like, the surface stuff. And I'm, like, way over here, you know?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I'm curious about all, like, the, like. Remember all the COVID talks about that? Like, how much, like, how much of this has all come out with that. Like, how many of the people that were so crazy on that side.

[Eli]

I think people just, like, just want to just kind of, you know, Homer Simpson their way out of that conversation.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like that's exactly what it's been like for. On my side with, like, anybody that was like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I keep waiting. I was so crazy. This is all bullshit type of deal.

[Justin Andrews]

During.

[Eli]

During COVID Excited.

[Justin Andrews]

During COVID Engage, they did a huge poll. This is the scariest thing I'd ever seen. They did a huge poll of registered voters, and it was Democrats. So they vote. They did a huge poll. Over 60%. So majority supported taking people's children away if they refuse to. A majority of people polled during COVID were like, yes, take their kids away. They need to vaccinate. Can you believe that? I can't. You better believe they're Homer Simpsons.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Like, imagine being that you can find the poll. Imagine. Yeah. Look at that.

[Justin Andrews]

Poll up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Imagine being that person that voted that. And then all this stuff comes out about it like that. You were like. You were so quick to say some would. Would have voted for something like that in a time that was completely manufactured by a bunch of. Yeah, the crazy dude.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I.

[Justin Andrews]

It's. I remember the pictures of people who were like. They'd have, like, big plastic, like, walls where you could put your arms through. Yeah. And then that's how they'd visit each other. Yeah. With that. The silliness of it. Or the pictures of the bands. The bands with the masks on, but they had the opening so they could play their flute.

[Eli]

So stupid. So many inconsistencies.

[Justin Andrews]

Just no brain, Just no thinking.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you find the poll, Doug?

[Sal Destefano]

I did. They say it's 29, but then who knows if that's real or not?

[Justin Andrews]

I don't if it's more. If it's 5%, that's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, well, that's a little more pull to not show. Okay, so it wasn't 60% bro. So there's only 30%.

[Justin Andrews]

Scroll down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Click.

[Justin Andrews]

Show more. Doug. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh. 29% said temporary removing parents custody.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. 59% supported confining them to their homes. 50. Yeah. Fines for unvaccinated.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's another one. 45% favored allowing governments to force the unvaccinated into designated facilities. So relocation. Forced what? Yeah.

[Eli]

48% favored people calling everybody else Nazis.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Who publicly questioned the efficacy of the vaccine. Almost 50% said. Yeah. Yeah, we'd like to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, this is why. I mean, this is. I mean, what's that. What's the statistic on that? What?

[Justin Andrews]

People.

[Adam Schaefer]

People would trade freedom for safety all day long.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. That's crazy. Like, give me. You would trade freedom for safety like that? That is crazy to me. And then what's that old quote?

[Justin Andrews]

If you trade freedom for safety, you get neither.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You end up with neither one.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think so.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Eli]

President.

[Justin Andrews]

Anyway, I gotta tell you guys, my buddy. I have a buddy who, like you, Adam. I would say, like you. If something doesn't taste good, he's not gonna take it. Yeah. So I got him the Legion peanut butter cup protein. Yeah, bro. He's. He called me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, is this really protein? He's like, this is the most delicious. I can't believe this is protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I've never. I've never had it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You guys haven't. I say, you don't. You don't, you don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you guys have the peanut butter one? Yeah.

[Eli]

That's our go, too.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Eli]

It's so good. It's like. Yeah. It blends so well. And, like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Eli]

They're tripping out. They're like, what else are you putting in here? And a lot of times it's just ice.

[Justin Andrews]

And.

[Eli]

And we just blend it up.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I wasn't using the peanut butter, but that's what I was using when you saw me this morning when I was making my Greek yogurt. That's. I put a scoop of the vanilla, the vanilla way in a Greek yogurt. Makes the Greek yogurt taste amazing.

[Justin Andrews]

Even better.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. And then it boosts an extra, what, 26 or whatever grams of protein.

[Justin Andrews]

So I can't have. I can't have dairy, but I do their egg protein and their egg protein is really good. Yeah, it's really good. The vanilla is really, really good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, Mike's got it. Mike's got it nailed. Yeah. You know, I meant to ask him, you Remind me when we get off to hit him up. I just, you know, I keep my Legion protein bars right down below me right here. And I just got the new box and the chocolate chip cookie dough one that I always eat is. Is totally different. The texture. So he's changed some sort of a formulation.

[Justin Andrews]

I want to ask, is it better?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, it's way better. They used to be kind of, like, hard.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's like a real soft texture now. So I'm super curious to what. What he did different. Have you had one lately?

[Sal Destefano]

I haven't, no.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. So you'll have to try.

[Justin Andrews]

You eat the cookies all the time? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know why.

[Adam Schaefer]

I have a thing for him, too.

[Justin Andrews]

The cookies.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Eli]

I think it's just in the form, you know, because it's a cookie, but it could just be a bar.

[Adam Schaefer]

To be honest. I don't even like them. I still eat them like crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

I do. I'm like, worst commercial.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, they don't taste like. They don't taste like a cookie. They taste like a protein. Taste more like a protein bar.

[Justin Andrews]

You. I'm saying.

[Adam Schaefer]

But, and, but there's something. You know what it is? It's got to be.

[Justin Andrews]

Psychologically, it reminds me of a cookie.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Like, and I know, too, it's a little less grams of protein than the protein bar, but I still choose to eat the cookie all the time. And it's like, I know I don't like it more than the protein bar. I've got both right here.

[Justin Andrews]

I have the. I have the cookie and I have

[Adam Schaefer]

the bars right here. And I eat the cookies way better.

[Eli]

But. Yeah, that's convenient. You know, it's convenient.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think there's something there. I think there's like, of course I'm aware. I'm aware that I have both there. The protein bar has got a little bit more protein, so even better. I'd rather have that. It tastes better.

[Justin Andrews]

But you like the cookie.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I still eat the cookie.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because it's a cookie. What is that?

[Sal Destefano]

I have no idea.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I have. I have unlimited access to both. And so, yeah, I finally.

[Eli]

I was a big cookie guy then growing up.

[Justin Andrews]

I think.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think that's my treat. I think that that's what it is. I think there's a psychological thing of that. Like, it makes me feel like, oh, I still get to have cookies every once in a while.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm dead serious.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at me.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's got pros. Because people have asked Me like, hey, do you really like that? I'm like, you know, I don't really like it that much, actually.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, just being honest, it's not like my favorite thing of all. They got a ton of great stuff. It's not my favorite. Like, I love their cereal. I love their boss.

[Eli]

You guys, our cookie went down.

[Justin Andrews]

How many sponsors, how many times have we had a sponsor write in to us to be like, yeah, you know, Adam, you shouldn't say that. It's great, but it tastes like crap.

[Eli]

Take the taste test.

[Justin Andrews]

Adam's actually said that. I'm not gonna say what the sponsor was. We're not with them anymore. But I remember we had a commercial.

[Sal Destefano]

I like that ketone IQ leans into that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Eli]

Oh, they do. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Although it doesn't taste that bad. They've improved their formulation. Exogenous ketones.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. But if you lie and say it tastes amazing or tastes, you'll enjoy it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's tolerable.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Old exogenous ketones tasted like jet fuel, like actual gasoline.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's what kept me from really using it was the experience I had with it originally. But it has gotten. It has gotten.

[Eli]

You could light your breath.

[Adam Schaefer]

It still is not good, right? It still doesn't. It's not gonna drink it forever. Like, I can't sip on it like a Celsius. I ain't doing that. Like, it's. You shut. You shoot it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because it's not. It doesn't taste good, but it. It. There is a significant difference between the way they taste now versus what they tasted before. For sure.

[Justin Andrews]

You were a big cookie guy how when you were.

[Eli]

I was a big cookie cookie monster.

[Justin Andrews]

Were you crunchy or soft cookies?

[Eli]

Yeah, I actually liked the. The fresh baked cookies, you know, the chocolate chip. Like, I said always, like, you know, pester my mom to, like, oh, make me some chocolate chip cookies, but gooey. Yeah. But I would steal my dad's Oreos. He would hide them. Like, he. He was funny, dude. He was. He would always buy things just for himself, and he'd try and hide them, and he'd get pissed off if you found them. I'm like, why don't you just buy more so we can all, like, do the same thing that you're doing, you know? Like, but I would find him and me, my brother would be like, sneak in and grabbing his cookies and eating them.

[Justin Andrews]

Oreo cookies are the preferred treat for children with food allergies. You guys know that. What? Yeah, it's like allergen free. I know this because I have family members with lots of food allergies. And Oreos are like, yeah, because.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not food because. Yeah, I know.

[Eli]

Light it on fire and it's like fireworks.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's nothing food about it. Is that what. No, you've seen that.

[Eli]

You can look it up.

[Adam Schaefer]

I read it. Literally, it's not food when there's nothing food about it.

[Eli]

I'm proud I ate Oreos.

[Justin Andrews]

When you're around kids with food allergies and they bring out treats. Yeah. Like 10 out of 10 times Oreos is gonna be.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. They could probably eat plastic and not have any food allergy issues either. I think that's what's going on.

[Justin Andrews]

It's because there's no dairy, egg or peanuts. Yeah, it's. What?

[Adam Schaefer]

What, what food is.

[Justin Andrews]

What food?

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it hard?

[Eli]

Right? It's lard and sugar.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not even that. No. I think.

[Justin Andrews]

Look up.

[Adam Schaefer]

What is. What is an Oreo?

[Eli]

I thought it was lard.

[Adam Schaefer]

There is nothing real about it.

[Justin Andrews]

There's no animal lard in there.

[Eli]

That may taste better if it was.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. No, it's vegetable oil.

[Eli]

Stuff is in there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude. I know this because, like I said, I have family members.

[Adam Schaefer]

Us. Bleached enriched flowers.

[Justin Andrews]

Palm canola oil. See, there you go. There's not a single animal product in there.

[Eli]

Lame.

[Adam Schaefer]

High fructose corn.

[Eli]

Come on, Oreo, make some lard.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you guys like the double stuff ones or you guys stick to the.

[Eli]

Yeah, double stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you know what? You know that, you know what? A, like, talk about a cool biz like that marketing. I would love to see. Look up Oreos, like, comeback or like business ups and downs.

[Justin Andrews]

Whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

They did a thing that. I don't know if you guys. There's people that collect Oreos because they run limited runs of certain flavors.

[Eli]

Flavors.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so they did the most brilliant thing. They made a scare. They created scarcity around types.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Eli]

I had this.

[Sal Destefano]

So.

[Justin Andrews]

So there's. So there's Oreo Cakesters, Confetti Cake Thins, Chocolate ganache.

[Sal Destefano]

What?

[Justin Andrews]

And Minnie's Peanut Butter. Justin. Oh, that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

So they. They. They have a good time. They have.

[Eli]

I'm like dying.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is just. I mean, I. We know. We know somebody who collects them. Them and actually like freezes them and. And stores them. Has like 100 plus.

[Justin Andrews]

What are you gonna do with them?

[Adam Schaefer]

It's. It's like they become like collector type things.

[Justin Andrews]

What are you gonna do with them?

[Adam Schaefer]

I just. It's a thing, dude.

[Eli]

Probably watch Mad Max.

[Adam Schaefer]

And they're like, I'm telling you guys right now, you have to look it up. There's. There's all these, like, they. They do these limited runs of flavors Forever Oreo verse.

[Justin Andrews]

See, now that pulls up all the weird flavors. I didn't know that.

[Eli]

Interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

That's weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what people don't do with Oreos anymore? Eat them with milk. That's not a thing anymore.

[Eli]

Like, kit cats have a lot of weird flavors.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, in Japan.

[Eli]

Yeah, I didn't know that. Really weird ones.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, Japanese people love. The Japanese culture loves Kit Kats. S. Doug with wasabi. Oh, yeah.

[Eli]

It's like wasabi.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. There's like. There's like, sauce flavored.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want you guys to see all these Oreo flavors. There's like, literally like. Like a hundred.

[Justin Andrews]

Maybe they.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's notes from that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I don't know. Do you remember Kit Kats in Japan?

[Chandler G.]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, they're. They're popular.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I was at, like, the.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Sal Destefano]

At the. Was it the world market the other day. They had a bunch of them from Japan there.

[Justin Andrews]

They're like, like shrimp flavored. They always have shrimp flavored something. Yeah. Like, they have shrimp flavored crackers and chips.

[Eli]

Yeah. Ramen.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I will never eat a flavored treat. That's what. Yeah.

[Eli]

What is it?

[Justin Andrews]

What is going on? Yeah. Look at all those weird flavors, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's nothing. That's not even. I would have googled all. How many total Oreo flavors have there been? That might be a way.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so here's what I'm gonna do. I don't know about you guys, but I'm gonna do the peanut butter one for sure. I'm gonna try the peanut butter one. Yeah. I didn't even know that existed.

[Adam Schaefer]

They have, like, red velvet cake. They've done the birthday confetti. They've done, like, how many? Over 240 collab.

[Eli]

I'm. I'm in.

[Adam Schaefer]

See, So I. So why I brought it up was because, you know, when we were kids, Oreos were a thing or like that, but then they kind of fell out of favor. It wasn't like a thing that you hear about all the time, but they've recently, in the last, I want to say, handful of years, I don't know the exact timing, have exploded on the scene again. And I. I think it's due to. They started coming out with all these, like, limited flavors and additions, which caused all this crazy buzz and social media posting and talking about it and so. And I'm just curious of like how, how it did to the business. Like, did it, was it trending a certain way and then all of a sudden it just exploded? Who owns them? What stock?

[Justin Andrews]

What.

[Adam Schaefer]

What are they under? Are they. Is it Nabisco?

[Justin Andrews]

I think.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then Nabisco is owned by a bigger one, isn't it? Yeah, it falls under one of those.

[Justin Andrews]

Monsanto.

[Sal Destefano]

They're actually owned by Mondelez or Mondele Internet.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a spin off from Kraft Foods. Oh, yeah. They used to be Nabisco but now they're owned by. Well, I think there's like two food companies that own everything.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, they're the others. Oh, yeah, that's why I was asking. They're normally, they're normally owned by one of the big ones, you know, 50th of the brand.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, it sucks. This happens all the time. A, A healthy food company.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Will get bought out by the large company and without telling consumers, they'll change the ingredients.

[Adam Schaefer]

That just happened with. Somebody was just telling me about that when I was doing, eating something, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, was it those chips? No, not those chips. They make like gluten free Siete. Was it Siete? No.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what it was? Oh, no, it was my toothpaste.

[Justin Andrews]

Tom's. Yes. They bought out by someone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Tom's got bought out by one of the big ones, Crest or one of those other ones like that. And then they reformulated.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Now they sprinkle. They sprinkled COVID vaccine.

[Adam Schaefer]

I have no idea. I have no idea what I got. But I was a, I was a fan of Tom longest time. And then they ended up, they ended up getting bought out and someone's like, yeah, you know, they changed the formulation.

[Justin Andrews]

They do as soon as they get bought out by a big company.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's dirty.

[Justin Andrews]

Those bastards.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

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[Sal Destefano]

First question is from Sweezy4Real. Is adding daily calisthenics 100 push ups, pull ups, squats, etc. On top of a MAPS training program? Overdoing it, probably.

[Adam Schaefer]

So maybe. Depends on how you break it up into what program?

[Justin Andrews]

Of course, depends on the personal stuff. But here's the deal. When we write a program, we write it with the intention that this is what the person's going to do as their primary form of exercise. Yeah. Now we, we of course being active on top of it with like walking, hiking, maybe some cardio, totally fine. But when we, when we write a strength training program, we write it and the intentions are that's what this person's going to do and they're not going to do anything else. Now I could pick programs where doing more would be more appropriate than other programs. Like you're not going to do math aesthetic and then drop a bunch of calisthenics on top.

[Adam Schaefer]

Terrible idea.

[Justin Andrews]

But you know, like a Mass 15 program, if you've got good recovery or you know, oh yeah, I think you could do that. You could definitely add it to, to some of our programs. But if you get a MAPS program, that's how we write them. We write them with this is what your workout is.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's good you brought this question up because we haven't said this in a long time. We used to say it a lot when we first started because this was actually really common. We get a lot of people be like, hey, I want to do this, I want to do that. I remember being like a, like we get frustrated with like follow the program. So what we tend to recommend to people is like follow the program exactly how it's laid out and then we modify, tweak, add new things.

[Justin Andrews]

Second time around.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, second time around. That's the best way to do something like this. And so if you have a question like this, because here's the truth, like the answer could be yes, could be no, could be depends. It's, it's it it. And it could be yes right now because where you're currently at in your life or no later on depending on what's going on inside of your life. So there's so many variables that make this a possibility or not a possibility. The best thing to do is to to trust the programming and that we kind of know what we're doing. Follow it the way it's laid out and then if you want to make tweaks to it, then make tweaks. Then you have an idea what it's like to it. Put follow it exactly as laid out. And what happens when you add or take away or change things and you can go like, oh, that improved it or oh, wow, I got less results this time. That's the way to go about it.

[Sal Destefano]

Next question is from Brad barber. Would Great 8 be a good program for a 40 year old doing BJJ?

[Justin Andrews]

Of all the strength training programs.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. Either the mass 15 or the grade 8. I think the grade 8 would be the best.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because one movement, one lift a day and then you do your and everything

[Adam Schaefer]

else is centered around Brazilian Jiu jitsu.

[Eli]

Think like again, this kind of reflects a little bit of when we had Corey Schlesinger on totally. Where it's like, you know, in season training. So if you think of your, you know, if you're doing a sport, even if it's like you're just going to practice consistently and you're not in season or you're in season, you know that type of format is perfect for that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I'm glad you took this. We get a lot of BJJ questions with our programs with that. And I actually had. I didn't think about grade eight as being like a nice compliment to somebody who's doing something like that.

[Justin Andrews]

It's great. This is how I mean, I've trained clients like this and the other option is to do a few lifts one day a week. But this is even better where you do one lift a day. Even better.

[Sal Destefano]

Next question is from Notnot A. What is the most important thing when it comes to sleep? Sleep length, sleep quality, same wake time, same bedtime leading up to bedtime, waking up routine. For example, exposure to sunlight to help with circadian and rhythm and any other factors.

[Justin Andrews]

So the two most important. Quality. Yeah, quality and length. Okay, so those are two. You can't get around those. Now if you want to improve those, the single biggest impact you can make is going to bed at the same time and waking up the same time. That of all the things you can do, of course, you know, not talking about the crazy. Right. Like drinking coffee before you go to bed or sleeping in a room with disco music playing or something crazy like the, the, the if you go to bed at the same time. I'm just thinking like someone's like, okay,

[Adam Schaefer]

in case there's somebody out there doing that. Yes, there's somebody out there that's trying to fall asleep to discern it. Maybe stop the disco.

[Justin Andrews]

No way to sleep with that music. You gotta dance, dude. No, but it's, it's. Of all the things that you hear people talk about that improve your sleep, that's the biggest one is you go into bed at the same time, wake up at the same time every single day. That'll have the best impact across the board.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, if you've been listening to my journey the last couple months, I've been talking quite a bit about this and I'm tracking it diligently and I mean I was just, I was expressing my frustration last night that I to Katrina that. And I haven't checked my score today, but I'm. Because part of that's because I know it's not going to be great because I didn't go to bed on. I didn't that I. The preparing for it. Like you prepare for a workout or you prepare. Prepare to start your day every day by brushing your teeth, showering, doing all the things that you do to start your day, treating your bedtime like that. And as much as I know that the hardest part is actually doing it consistently all the time. It's just like, what was it?

[Justin Andrews]

Was it TV would. You were watching a show, just her

[Adam Schaefer]

and I were up talking and then she was watching her office on her phone and I could hear laughing and I'm laying in bed and so it's like not like I'm blaming her or anything like that. I was up late talking to her too. We at least weren't watching tv, but we were just up. We were up. We were up till 10:45 when I finally said to shut down. And then she, on top of that watched TV on her phone for a little bit before she went to bed. And the combination of that meant that I didn't get to bed till like 11:30, which is I know if I'm not attempting to be in bed by 9:30 and like, like really shut everything down by 10, I. It messes. I don't get the best I can get. Okay. But optimal is having a disciplined routine of like I shut the dinner down by 6:37 at the latest, no more TV by 9 o'. Clock. And then if I'm shutting all lights, everything dark by 9:30 and I actually can do that days in a row.

[Justin Andrews]

The thing that messes people up is they'll think, well, I can get eight hours of Sleep. If I go to bed late and sleep in. Technically that's true, but then it's not the same. It throws off your circadian rhythm so that when you try to get back on and typically happens Friday night, Saturday night, and then Sunday comes around, you got to wake up early Monday morning and without realizing you've jet lagged yourself.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Just changed your circadian.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not the same.

[Justin Andrews]

Which takes a couple days to get back.

[Adam Schaefer]

I have plenty of time to sleep. I don't have to, I don't have to get up super early. Right. We don't get here overly early or anything like that. So I have plenty of time to sleep in. But I've literally figured out that I have to prepare and be consistent about that time. And I have enough length in time but that my quality isn't as good unless I do those things and be consistent about those things. I disrupt it makes a difference.

[Sal Destefano]

Next question is from Kristen Strauser. Have any of you used BPC157 and

[Adam Schaefer]

TB500, best peptides that exist.

[Justin Andrews]

In my opinion it's the best combo I've ever used. When you use them both together. So today if you get bpc, they have a better version. If you go, especially if you go through like mphormones.com this is FDA regulated pharmacies. It's not research chemical. You know, stuff where you don't know what's in there. They'll give you something called Pentadec Pentadeca Argonate which is essentially a better form of BPC. And then TB500 or you'll get thymus and beta, which is the, the longer amino acid chain. But TB500 is an isolated part of it. But that combination for recovery is the best muscle quality. I get this look to my body that's different. I get, I, I almost, I feel like I get leaner on it. And I've been talking with some friends about this and they upregulates the growth hormone receptors on the body. So now it's like you've got enhanced fat burning effects. It's the best of all the peptides that I've used and there's a lot of great ones. That combination is my absolute favorite. It's wild.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I, it's. I've been injured multiple times and used it and been. And had injuries that I've done before. And what I've distilled it down to is it cuts recovery time. In half. Yeah, in half. And, and anybody that I've put on it or introduced it to that, has experienced it, has noticed the same thing. The two of those, they're just, it's an unbelievable combination. And of all the peptides that exist, and I've tried most all of them, it's the one that I like, feel, see a difference. Like it's, it's like there's not like a I think I feel this or oh, I felt a little like it's. Yeah, it's a, it's a difference. You notice the TB500 or the thymus and beta knock down the inflammation and you recover at a significantly faster rate.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally. Nphormones.com is if you're interested in something like that and then you can work with a doctor. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expedition exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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