2814: If You Want A Lower Body Fat Percentage, Watch This !

Summary

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2814: If You Want A Lower Body Fat Percentage, Watch This!
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: March 14, 2026

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Brief Overview

This episode tackles the common obsession with lowering body fat percentage, exposing myths around "cutting" for both women and men. The hosts urge listeners to reconsider constant fat loss pursuits, emphasizing that building muscle, finding energy balance, and prioritizing health often yield better (and healthier) results than simply aiming for a lower body fat niveau. The show also features multiple live coaching calls with listeners, addressing real-world fitness journeys and programming questions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Body Fat Percentage Myths, Especially for Women

• Main Takeaway:
  The pursuit of ultra-low body fat—especially for women below ~22%—can backfire by stalling progress, derailing health, and actually raising body fat percentage over time.

  • At or below 22% body fat, women risk hormone disruption, muscle loss, lower bone density, decreased energy, and period loss.
  • Men experience negative effects when dropping below ~11% body fat (testosterone loss, libido issues, poor performance).
  • The healthiest and best-looking physiques usually come from adding muscle, not endlessly chasing lower fat numbers.

  "If your body fat percentage is at 22% or lower, don’t go on a cut. You’re just going to lose muscle. You’re probably even going to go higher in body fat percentage. It’s a bad idea." — Sal DeStefano (02:32)

  • Health Over Leanness:
    Women’s bodies are especially sensitive to being “too lean” due to evolutionary reproductive demands.
    • Recurrent theme: “Peak health is peak fertility.” Maintaining healthy hormones often means sitting above abs-visible leanness.

  “Peak shredded Instagram look is never peak health. Peak health is peak fertility.” — Sal DeStefano (18:48)

• Muscle Gain Over Cutting:
  For those already at or near "lean," focus should shift to muscle gain:

  • Adding 5–8 lbs of muscle not only enhances curves and definition but also allows you to eat more and feel better.

  “They could get the look they want by adding five to eight pounds of muscle on their body versus trying to cut their way down to the look.” — Justin Andrews (05:27)

  Timestamps: 02:32 - 10:54

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2. Practical Coaching: Real Client Stories

• Women with Perpetual Cuts:
  Hosts share success stories of women increasing their body fat/calories (sometimes against their wishes), restoring lost menstrual cycles and boosting fertility.

  “We bumped their calories and within two months they got pregnant.” — Sal DeStefano (10:44)

• The Slow Road to Muscle Gain:
  Case study of Justin’s wife Corinne: Months of adding calories and gaining some fat, but muscle and definition took longer to materialize. The body first needs to restore health before it can build muscle.

  “It looks like this: getting healthier, getting healthier, getting stronger, getting stronger, getting stronger—then comes the muscle.” — Justin Andrews (15:34)

• Body Image & Social Media:
  The episode calls out unrealistic online "fitness" ideals, highlighting that even in gyms, truly lean or “shredded” bodies are rare.

  • Social comparison makes people feel less content and more likely to pursue unhealthy targets.

  “Comparison is the thief of joy.” — Justin Andrews (22:13)
  “You rarely see a body that is jacked and ripped [in big gyms].” — Sal DeStefano (23:01)

Timestamps: 10:54 - 25:00

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3. Nutrition & Food Industry Realities

• High-Protein Snacks & Supplement Talk:
  Quick discussion on new snack products (e.g., Crisp Power high-protein pretzels) and the continued pitch for pure creatine supplements.

• Processed Foods & Labeling:
  Reveal of ingredient downgrades in mass-market foods (e.g., “peanut butter style crèmes” in Reese’s) for profit, not health.

  “They found cheap alternatives that taste like the food you were eating before, but it’s not really the food anymore.” — Justin Andrews (58:38)

• Organic vs. Conventional Farming:
  Hosts discuss pesticides on produce, effectiveness of washing, and whether "organic" is always meaningful.

  Timestamps: 25:10 - 57:20

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4. Coaching Call Highlights

a) Veronica from Virginia: Veteran Competitor (68:32)

• 56 years old, multiple figure/physique competitor.
• Wants to optimize off-season training for future shows, focus more on "athletic" qualities and long-term vibrancy.
• Recommendation: Try MAPS Strong (athletic/posterior chain focus) before returning to a stage/show prep split.
  • Emphasizes off-season = muscle-building = best physique outcomes; don’t just repeat the same bodybuilding splits.
• Memorable Moment:

  “One of the best packages I brought to the stage was when, in the off-season, I trained like a powerlifter.” — Justin Andrews (73:43)

b) Sam from Kentucky: Massive Weight Loss Journey (79:46)

• Down from 340 to 270 lbs, using GLP-1 medication (Tirzepatide).
• Gained lean mass despite cutting, following advice to raise calories and lower training volume.
• Next Steps:
  • Keep calories up; only cut calories when truly plateaued.
  • Focus on reverse dieting, step count, slow and steady approach.
• Memorable Quote:

  “Increased calories by a significant amount and dropped training volume, built muscle, got stronger, and got leaner.” — Sal DeStefano (87:38)

c) Karen from New York: Bariatric Patient, New Strength Goals (88:24)

• 60s, recovering from bariatric surgery, on GLP-1, down >120 lbs total.
• Wants safe programming for strength, mobility, and balance, only 2x/week gym.
• Advice:
  • Traditional strength training 2-3x/week with a slow progressive overload focus.
  • Support from a professional coach recommended.
  • Using essential amino acids (EAAs) multiple times per day to help hit protein goals post-surgery.

d) Daniel from North Carolina: Fit New Dad, Limited Time (98:04)

• 30yo, home gym, newborn at home.
• High activity in landscaping job, but adjusting post-baby and during winter off-season.
• Wants to work on imbalances, get strong, keep up with new responsibilities.
• Recommendation:
  • MAPS 15 Powerlift for short, efficient strength sessions, freeing time for nutrition and parenting.
  • For his postpartum wife: MAPS Starter, gentle introduction when cleared by doctor.

Timestamps:

• Veronica: 68:32 — 78:43
• Sam: 79:46 — 87:33
• Karen: 88:24 — 96:42
• Daniel: 98:04 — 106:10

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sal DeStefano:

  “Ladies, if your body fat percentage is at 22% or lower, don’t go on a cut. You’re just going to lose muscle … get better results by building muscle.” (02:32)
  “Peak health is peak fertility… not the shredded IG look.” (18:48)

• Justin Andrews:

  “They could, they would get the look they want by adding five to eight pounds of muscle on their body versus trying to cut their way down to the look.” (05:27)
  “Comparison is the thief of joy.” (22:13)

• Client Stories:

  “We bumped their calories and within two months they got pregnant.” — Sal (10:44)
  “You rarely see a body that is jacked and ripped [in the gym].” — Sal (23:01)
  “Increased calories … dropped training volume, built muscle, got stronger and got leaner.” — Sal (87:38)

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Actionable Takeaways

• For Most Women: If body fat is 22% or lower, avoid further cuts—focus on strength and muscle gain.
• For Most Men: Generally, avoid dropping below ~11% body fat unless for short-term goals.
• Both Genders: Building muscle and metabolic adaptation usually makes you look and feel significantly better than chasing sub-healthy leanness.
• Reverse Diet Smartly: Don’t stay in cut/cut/cut mode, especially with long-term medication use or past history of overtraining.
• Real Progress = Slow, Steady, Strong: Give the body time to adapt back to “normal” before expecting muscle gain—getting healthy, then strong, then muscular.
• Don’t Trust Everything on Social Media: Most fitness photos, body fat targets, and food/label claims are either unrealistic or worse, misleading.
• Consider Coaching: For complex personal histories, surgeries, or when stuck in a rut, individualized coaching creates accountability and personalization.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a modern reality check for anyone stuck worrying about their "body fat percentage." For most, the key is to eat more (not less!), train smarter (not harder or longer), and above all, play the long game for health, strength, and metabolic flexibility.

Stay strong, focus on health, and remember: sometimes the key to looking leaner is actually building, not cutting.

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Find Mind Pump and its hosts on Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug Podcast & programs at: mindpumppodcast.com and mapsfitnessproducts.com

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Transcript

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[Sal DeStefano]

If you want to p and expand

[Justin Andrews]

your mind, there's only one place to go.

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Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts

[Justin Andrews]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews,

[Sal DeStefano]

you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast you'll find anywhere. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, people called in. We coached them live on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 65 minutes long. This is where we talk about fitness and fat loss and workouts, current events. Always a good time if you want to be on an episode like this. If you want to call in and have Adam, Justin and myself coach you on air, send your question to mplifecaller.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Kion. Today we talked about their Pure Creatine Monohydrate. It's pure powder, nothing else. It's the cleanest source of creatine you can get. There's no colors, no fillers, no sugar, no flavor. Just good old creatine monohydrate. Extremely well sourced. Get 20% off. Go to getkeon.com that's G-E-T-K-I-O-N.com mindpump that link will get you 20% off. It's also brought to you by Crisp Power. These are high protein pretzels. Each bag is like 25 grams of protein or more and they taste amazing. It's a delicious high protein snack. Way better than chips. Way better than cheese curls. It's got protein, tastes good and we'll give you 10% off. Go to crisppower.com that's C-R-I S P P-O-W-E-R.com use mind pump 10 as your code and get 10% off. We also have a brand new workout program bundle. It's called the spring bundle, it's Maps Symmetry, Maps prime, and the advanced training techniques guide. All of that together is 50% off 147. Just head over to mapsmarch.com all right, real quick.

[Doug Egge]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, ladies, if your body fat Percentage is at 22% or lower, don't go on a cut. You're just going to lose muscle. You're probably even going to go higher in body fat percentage. It's a bad idea. Let's get into it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, this is. I felt close to home. We just got off a call recently. I recently shared what Kren and I have done and it's tough. And I think this is at any age, I think this becomes extremely important.

[Sal DeStefano]

Over 35.

[Justin Andrews]

Over 35 post kids, perimenopausal like this becomes even more. It's important no matter what. I mean, even in young, healthy women that haven't had children yet under the age of 35, I, I've seen this where you're in the, you know, teens and the body just is not responding. Many times you see things like period loss, bone density gone down, things like that. And you feel like you're eating really good, training really hard, and the body is just not showing any results.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. 20. So by the way, I want to say this too, especially if you strength train. So if you have good strength, which means you have some muscle, 22% is how most women actually want to look. This is how most women want to look. It's a good body fat percentage. It's lean, you're healthy for a lot of women. For most women, if you start to push below this, especially if you push below 20, you start to see hormone disruption, muscle loss, you feel worn down, loss of performance, energy goes down. Now, yes, there's always anomalies that are out there for both men and women, but this is generally true for a lot of women. And again, if this is you, if you're like testing your body fat and you're like 21%, 23%, 22%. Should I go in a cut? No. In fact, you'd be better off just continuing to try to build lean muscle, which oftentimes results in a little bit of a body fat percentage drop anyway. It's just a much better healthier sustainable approach, the constantly chasing the leanness, the super leanness. This is also true for men. It's just more true for women. Women are much more sensitive. Their bodies are much more sensitive to going to start to getting too lean with body fat percentage. With guys, it's also true. You see guys, guys go below 11%, you start to see testosterone drop in a lot of guys when they do that for women in my experience tends to be right around below 22. Definitely below 20.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, and since you brought up men, and we just talked about this recently with my own personal experience, how surprised I was by my body fat test because I didn't feel like I look like that. A lot of times when I get a female client that's hovering around the 22% body fat range or so and they're telling me like, ah, but I

[Sal DeStefano]

want to look, I want more definition. Yeah, they're muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they're exactly is they. They could, they would get the look that they want by adding five to eight pounds of muscle on their body versus trying to cut their way down to the look. And then, and what's amazing about this is, and I promise you they'll, you'll get the look you're looking for the shape, the curve, the smaller waist by adding the muscle. And that seems counterintuitive, but it's true. And it is true for both men and women. A lot of times we are, are chasing this look and the better approach is to feed the body more, build more muscle, because even at a higher body fat percentage with 5 more or 8 more, or for men, 10 more pounds of muscle on your body looks radically different totally than you just dropping down 2% body fat from where you're currently, where you're currently at. And we've seen this time time again. And I mean, and I've experienced it with myself many times where I'm surprised. I'm like, oh, wow, I would have not thought I was that body fat percentage because I know what I feel like when I'm a certain percent and it's like I definitely don't feel like the guy that was 19 body fat and started his transformation journey 10 or 13 years ago or whatever. When I did that whole, when I documented that I'm only 1% different than that guy, but look radically different because I have a lot more muscle mass on the body. And I think a lot of women, they get stuck in this, this percentage where they're at and they want to get leaner. Many times they're eating in the low 2000 calorie or lower already and they, they want to get a leaner looking

[Sal DeStefano]

and they end up losing muscle.

[Caller/Listener]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So just, I mean, just to kind of paint it differently, let's say there's a woman at 22% body fat and she says, I want to go on a cut, I want to drop 3% body fat. I want to get down to 19% body fat. And in that process, let's say she loses. I don't know what the numbers are, but let's say she loses seven pounds. But two or three pounds is muscle. But she lost more body fat than muscle. Let's say the percentage actually goes down. Is she in a better place? And I would argue no, she's not. That loss of muscle is, is resulted in a reduced metabolic rate, so her metabolism slows down a bit. This happens when you cut calories anyway. Even without muscle loss, your metabolism learns, learns to slow down. But if you lost muscle, that's most likely going to happen. You'll see some hormone changes. Losing muscle tends to cause hormone changes that are not as ideal. And does she look better even though she's leaner but with less muscle? I would argue if we take that same woman had her gain 8 pounds, even if she gained enough body fat in that 8 pounds to keep her body fat percentage the same, because she would have to. Okay, so if you gained 8 pounds of lean muscle at 22% body fat without gaining any body fat, you'd actually get leaner because now you have a smaller percentage of your body's body fat. But let's just say she gained muscle and she gained enough fat to stay at 22%. So she's 8 pounds heavier on the scale. But she's got more muscle and enough body fat has been gained to maintain 22%. She's got a faster metabolism and she looks better even though her body fat percentage is the same. She looks better. Her arms look leaner even though she's at the same level.

[Justin Andrews]

She scales up like eight pounds, eight pounds.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so she's going to look more sculpted in her delts, in her back, her butt, her quads, all the areas that she may have wanted to increase definition. And yet now she's in a place with a higher resting metabolic rate. So now maintaining 22% means she could eat way more. She's stronger, her hormone profile's better. Oh, yeah, she feels a lot better

[Doug Egge]

energy, like even like fertility markers and things like, I mean, you have to pay attention to these things. Your body's naturally telling you where your healthy zone is and where you're thriving the most. Even for men. Like, you know, if your sex drive, like, plummets, that's something to pay attention

[Sal DeStefano]

to almost every time I've worked with a male client who's natural because obviously you could take testosterone. So this changes things. But a man who's natural, who starts to try to get down to 10% body fat or a little lower, okay, like clockwork, they're not as strong. Less energy, and there's a reduction in Libido. Okay, now 14%, 13%, 15% feel great once we start to get down to. And this is for men, 10%, 9%. Okay. You look leaner, but you feel way worse. And I would argue with that same person, if they just built muscle at 12%, 13%, objectively, they would look better. So we have to be really careful with this body fat percentage gain. It's not what you think it is. And I'll say this, look, you mentioned fertility. You know how many female clients I had that were fitness fanatics who worked with me who maintained we had to gain body fat? Dude, I had, I've had. I can think off the top of my head, three women that I trained who were athletes. So they were, these were like, they were, they were high level college athletes. And then they hired me a little later. So they're in their, like, you know, 20s, 30s, and they walked around really lean because they like to be really lean. So they walked around 18% or so. And then they're married, and I'm still training them. And they're like, oh, we're trying to have a baby and it's taking a while. And we have the conversation. I'm not a fertility expert, but it would pop up and they'd say, if we bumped your calories, you got your body fat percentage up. I bet it would be a lot easier. And all three times. Yeah, all three times that was the answer. Bumped their calories and within two months they got pregnant.

[Justin Andrews]

We have to talk about, though, why this is so hard, though, mentally, just because, I mean, when Corinne and I are going through this right now and we tested our body fat, I want to say it's been a month and a half. I have to go back and look at the exact dates. Do you remember the dates when I showed you the two tests?

[Sal DeStefano]

I want to say it was about a month and a half. Like 45 days maybe.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, about a month and a half or so in between. And I take a lot of responsibility for up as a coach. Here. I shouldn't have had her test that soon. I got so excited.

[Sal DeStefano]

You didn't mess up with what your strategy?

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

The frequency of testing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, Y. Yeah. And I'll. And I'll tell the audience what happened and why. So we. We started. Our first test was at like, 17 point something percent body fat. I. I can pull up the numbers to get exact, but, like, I have all. We have all the data. We've tracked everything. So it's like around. It was around 17 body fat, or so we were hovering around 1900-2100 calories. And she stays lean like that year round. She. And. And she really wants to build muscle. The feedback from her shows when she's got on the judges are like, she needs more mass. She needs more size. And so this is. This is why she. She came to me to help her through this process. Now, what I know is what we're talking about right now. I know that from all my experience that a. A woman's body, when it's in the teen, teens, especially like 17, it doesn't respond very well to both burning body fat and building muscle in that low. It's kind of in survival mode. And if we want to lean out and get more shredded, or in her case, build a bunch of muscle already, the body fat percentage has got to come up.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

And so I knew this inevitably, that we were going to come up a little bit on body fat percentage. My hope was to show her in that short period of time that we also would have built some muscle. But that didn't happen. A month and a half goes by. We're increasing calories, and all that happened in that. And I mean, she's dialed right. We. To the calorie. We know exactly what we're consuming.

[Sal DeStefano]

She went from 19 to 2100 calories to what?

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so we were up to between 26 and 2800 calories a day.

[Sal DeStefano]

5, 5, 600 more calories a day,

[Justin Andrews]

plus dramatically reduced volume.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

So I.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way less exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I reduced her volume probably in half. I have to ask her to get specifics, like, on what she would say is the. The total volume I've cut out, but I've cut out probably half of the volume that she was doing. I minimize her steps. I said I don't want. So I've reduced a lot of that. All of this intentional because I knew I wanted to increase body fat percentage, but I was hoping I also would build some muscle on that. And she looks so good to me. Right now, and we're hitting PRs, like, every week.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's funny, too, because she looks way better.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. So look. Looks. And that's what it is. Everybody's telling me. I was like, dude, Corinne looks so good. I'm like, I know, I know. I'm so proud of her. She's kicking ass right now. And I'm like, she's hitting PRs her day. And so I jumped the gun of even, like, knowing better, that I should. Should have probably stayed a little bit longer. I. I wanted to show her really quick, like, look at what we' going. Let's keep pushing. Right? And what came back was devastating, I know, to her, you know, and frustrating to me, and frustrating me, because I should have known better. I should have waited longer and delayed longer. I. I got antsy and I did that. And so imagine her pushing as hard as she's been pushing for me, listening to everything I'm telling her do. And all that happened was literally no pounds of muscle were built, and we only put on body fat. So we've gone up on the scale, like eight pounds. And it's been. It's all registered.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which, by the way, she's still lean. Right? Right.

[Justin Andrews]

We're still at. She's at 19.

[Sal DeStefano]

She went up. She went up to 19.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. We went from 17 to 19 body fat. Now, I know the average person might be like, oh, my God, I wish I would. But you gotta understand where this is all relative mentally. Yeah. It's all relative to what that has to feel like as far as discouraging for a client to go through.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm gonna add to this. Right. So I think you're on point, bro. I think 100 point. You jump the gun a little bit. Because here's what will happen with muscle gain. This is. This is what happens with muscle gain. Predictably, you get. If you're eating right, you're doing good, you know, programming, you get stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger, Stronger muscle. It's not like stronger muscle, stronger muscle. It's like, you get stronger. And she's hitting PRs consistently. We can expect over the next 30 days for her to gain muscle. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about. She's added. What. How much has she added to some of her lifts?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. She's up 25, 50 pounds on the big lifts, like hip thrusts, squatting.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's going to turn into muscle. Yes, that's just how it works.

[Justin Andrews]

I would even add this to that. That layer that you said. It looks like this getting healthier, getting Healthier, getting healthier, getting stronger, getting stronger, getting stronger. Then comes the muscle. And so that, I think that's the part that is that you people have to understand is that when you're at that lean of a body fat percentage with that low of a calorie, the body is not in a healthy place. It may look good to the average person who's looking out, but it's not in a, in a healthy place. And if the longer it's been in that place, the less it feels healthy. And so it's not even going to be. And this is where I screwed up. It's going to be longer than just 45 days of being healthy.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

And, you know, feeding properly, reducing the volume to where it should be, it's finally going like, oh, yeah. And it's like. And it's given us some positive feedback. Like, here you go, you're getting a little bit stronger. You're starting to get a little bit stronger. But it's not giving us so much positive feedback that we see this awesome change on the scale of all muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

So the question, just not to get too deep in the weeds, the question is, how could she gain so much strength without it registering as muscle gain? Well, first off, if you're too lean, you're not going to have good neural drive and good muscle contraction. You're just.

[Justin Andrews]

And.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or recovery and. Or recovery. So that's number one. So what she's noticed are central nervous system adaptations, more energy, more fuel, reduced volume, which is allowing her to get those strength gains. So that's where that comes from first. Now, as you continue down this path, the only way she's going to continue to get stronger is if muscle fibers actually grow larger. And that's where you see. And this happens to guys too. Like, I'll get stronger, stronger, stronger, and

[Doug Egge]

then I'll see the central nervous system. Then it goes to muscle building.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Now, as far as, like, just to use an example of a guy, if I had a guy come up to me who religiously kept his body fat at 8%, okay, that's like a Korean, like a male Corinne, 8%.

[Justin Andrews]

We just had that caller, remember?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, the bodybuilder caller who I talked to. That's right, that's right. So you got a guy who comes to me and is like, he's just very religious about keeping his body fat. 8%, which is like Corinne, for her, 17. 8%. All the time. He's like, I want to gain some mass, I want to gain some Muscle, you have to gain some body fat, bro. It ain't going to happen. 8% body fat. Yeah, we actually have to gain some body fat to get your body to build some muscle. That's just the way it works. And, and again, I'm going to speak

[Justin Andrews]

to people and guys, bodies are more resilient to that.

[Sal DeStefano]

They are far more resilient at lean body.

[Justin Andrews]

Yet still would have to do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Still would have to.

[Justin Andrews]

That was the same advice we gave that guy, this guy, this iron man running bodybuilding dude who's at like single digit body fat is wanting to go build and it's like, dude, we're gonna have to, I'm gonna have to put body fat percentage, increase calories, reduce all your training volume.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I'll say this, for a guy to significantly affect his fertility to where he becomes infertile, he has to diet and over train for a while for that to happen. Like for a long time. Women, most high school and college female athletes don't have their period. That's how sensitive their bodies are to just kind of over responsive to that.

[Justin Andrews]

They're designed to reproduce and the baby's in you. That's what makes the human body so magical and special. The fact that because women have this ability to reproduce and we do not, it has to be kept at a certain health level in order to carry the life of another baby.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm glad you said that because peak shredded Instagram look is never peak health. Peak health is peak fertility. This is true for both men and women. For both men and women, this is peak health, peak hormone health, peak all that is peak fertility is typically what it looks like. But again, if you're listening and you're like, oh, I want testing your body fat and you're like, I'm at 22%, I'm at 21%, I want to get leaner. Stop, don't. Now you can dip into 18% but get right back out. But again, even there, if you're at 22% body fat and your metabolism is roaring, you've been doing it right, you're eating a lot of calories, you want to dip into 18% for a month, okay, fine, but come right back out. But if you're sitting at 22%, you're eating 2,200 calories, you're working out five days a week, the worst thing you could do is try to go on a cut. What'll happen is you're going to feel like crap and you're going to lose muscle and oftentimes what happens? And this is where it gets really frustrating. I've seen this so many times and it's such a frustrating place to be. They lose weight on the scale, they beat themselves up, they restrict their calories. Like, oh, my God, I'm so excited. They get a body fat test, comes back the same. What the hell just happened? I just did everything I thought, I feel terrible. I'm working out more. My body fat percentage stayed the same. How did that happen? Well, you lost muscle. In fact, the getting leaner part, ironically, would be to just build muscle. That'll make the getting leaner.

[Justin Andrews]

No, that's, that's just for sure for. And, and the hard part is the uncomfortable phase. Yes, right. The, the uncomfortable phase of the, the body getting up to that higher body fat percentage, to getting in a healthier place, the delayed gratification of the, the muscle packing on. Like you said, it's like we first get healthy, healthy, healthy, then we get strong, strong, strong, and then comes the muscle, muscle, muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And, and, and that's, and that's different for everybody depending on how, like, the longer you've kept yourself in that low calorie, low body fat percentage, the longer it most likely takes to get healthy and then to get strong and then to build muscle. And so, and the shorter that you've been in that time, the more likely it is that you can rebound pretty quick. This is why, even though there's not a large percentage of these people, but there is a percentage of people that compete that are. We talked to another lady that had a very healthy relationship with competing, right. And you could, you could tell by the way she looks, it feels how much she was eating, like, and so if you, for the most time you're in an off season, you eat high calorie and then you get shredded for one show and then you go get back, back to a higher body fat. You can, you can do that and, and the body will respond relatively quick. But if you've been in this, like, perpetual cycle of very low calorie trying to always push to a lower body fat percentage, the body is just resisting.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's just, it's crazy to me how much. And media has always done this. It's done this for a long time. And now social media, we've like, normalized these, like, really unhealthy, you know, ideals.

[Justin Andrews]

It's always been that way. It has, it's always been that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

But what I mean by that is social media is so in your face all the time. We're bombarded by it.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally, totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's so crazy. It's like, what's the ideal? The ideal now is this crazy, unhealthy, very unattainable.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, haven't we, haven't we done studies now too on like, like your likelihood of like your perceived happiness based off how much, how many hours you're on?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah, there's a strong correlation.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, there's a major correlation to that. I mean, because it's, I mean what is it? Comparison is the thief of joy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't help but. And this, this is not just body. It could be success. I mean that's the other thing. People that are striving to do better in their life. If you opened up Instagram, it would.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everybody's rich.

[Justin Andrews]

You would think every 22 year old is rich. And why aren't you? You know I'm saying like way stronger. Yeah, way, yeah, way stronger. Way richer. Way ripped her faster. It's just. And, and the algorithm is designed. The more you hover over it and look at it, the more you get of it. It's just always so then before you know it, you're the only one who's not.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's just wild because we've all, we've all worked in gyms most of our lives. So you already have a self selection bias of like people who work out. Do you know how often never we see rarely ever in the abs in the gym. You don't.

[Justin Andrews]

If you, if you listen long enough. You've heard me tell. It's been a long time since I've told this story but I used to do this when I used to present to people when I would get somebody who was intimidated by the gym and I was sitting down, presenting them the membership and training and stuff like that. Ah, you know, I'm just, I feel really insecure. I would literally mid. I'd say stand up and look around. I want you to stand up. I want you to find me five intimidating bodies that you see out there. And a lot of times they would, you'd see this look on their face. They're like, oh wow, everybody looks like me. You know what I'm saying? Like, like a person in here trying to get healthy. I was like, that's most the gym, most the commercial gyms are a bunch of average looking people that are struggling their way through and not doing it the best way that are it just. You rarely see a body that is jacked and ripped. Now there are obviously anomaly gyms.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah. That have attracted gravitate to Those ones.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. But your, your general lifetime 24 hour fitness crunch insert whatever big commercial.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're generally gonna be more Planet Fitness. Average population. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You ain't watching a bunch of. They're fitter than if you go to Disneyland. You know what I'm saying? They're definitely fitter than the people that go to Disneyland.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, that'll make you feel good about yourself. Go to Disneyland. Disney World. That's where the.

[Justin Andrews]

That's where the average person.

[Sal DeStefano]

Disney.

[Justin Andrews]

Disney. Disney World's the worst.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Remember I sent you guys. I sent you guys Scooter dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Classic jams. Yeah, traffic jams with scooters.

[Caller/Listener]

I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Like that's double and double fisting like a super Big Gulp looking drink with a nachos. Whether. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was crazy. I remember you guys telling me that I went like what, two years ago? Yeah, I went to. It was. Yeah, two years ago. I think it was.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's cuz the south is there, so it's a little worse. Disneyland's like that too. But Disney World. No world is worse. World is.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd never been to world until this time and, and it's exactly how you described it is like I've never seen so many Rascal scooters in a. In a. Seriously, like you, you, you. You will go there for one day and see more Rascal scooters than you will see your whole life in a decade of like in, in the real world. Like that's how like centralized that is. It's. It's a, it's a wild thing. And it's because of just. It's obesity, not because they had like a knee surgery. I mean I'm sure there's exceptions that there's some people out there, but no,

[Sal DeStefano]

they're just, they're just. They can't walk.

[Doug Egge]

It's always interesting to me, even in the Midwest, like the propensity for people to be like they're drinking Mountain Dew. They're drinking the most, the highest sugar drinks like all day. Sweet teas and you know, stuff that's like, that's what's popular. It was like mind blowing to me. I was like, this is just straight liquid crack. You know, you guys are drinking.

[Justin Andrews]

You think a lot of that too is just because trends tend to start from the outside and come in. I guess that wouldn't explain Florida very well because I'm like sometimes like it just takes a while before that stuff. It's cultural stuff gets there.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's cultural. There's studies on Mexico this is really interesting. Mexico's obesity rate after Coca Cola exploded.

[Justin Andrews]

Coca Cola after. They were actually one of the leaner, fitter.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. They didn't have an issue with obesity. And then they just.

[Doug Egge]

A huge driver of that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's liquid calories right in your face.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it doesn't help. They have terrible water too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh.

[Justin Andrews]

So all of a sudden you insert a different option that's loaded, full of sugar and tastes good. Like it's like, you know, saying it's like, well, take a chance dying or soda.

[Sal DeStefano]

We got clean soda. That's true everywhere. Serious. I know, it's crazy. I got to tell you. So I got a. I got a friend of mine who's been using creatine. So we recommend creatine all the time. But this friend of mine has. Does a job that requires him to lose a lot of sleep at times. Okay. Because he's got to work overnight. He's working emergency, that kind of stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so he tried. He's been doing the high dose creatine to see if it helps with his brain function stuff. And he's like, bro, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. The studies on that. It's wild. If you are sleep deprived, you can do a test and we can see that you're sleep deprived. In studies, they'll give people 20 grams of creatine, which is a very high dose. And it almost gets rid of all of the cognitive symptoms of sleep deprivation. So it's not gonna. Obviously I don't think you can not sleep and eat creatine. But that's crazy. There's nothing that's ever done that you give someone meth and it's not gonna completely get rid of some of those effects.

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder at what, what the threshold is. So, you know, I'm like tracking sleep like crazy right now, which, by the way, last night scored my highest score ever at 87. I'm on the hunt for 90. I've never seen 90 before.

[Sal DeStefano]

Competitive with sleep.

[Justin Andrews]

I am very competitive with sleep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sleeping competitive.

[Justin Andrews]

I am bec. With this. I'm on it. And I. I have plans to do some things soon that I'm gonna add to and track and change. And so I'll. I'll get back to you. But so let's say. So I had, I traveled, which that definitely gave me some. Some low 70s, which for me, which is great though, because for me now that's considered low, is low 70s, which is awesome. That's a huge improvement for me. I used to score in the 50s and 60s and all the time. So low, low 70s. So do you think there's still benefit at that? Because it's not, that's not like sleep deprivation. I'm not like way deprived, but I'm not good.

[Sal DeStefano]

So what the theory is is that with sleep deprivation or stress you get energy, basically energy creation dysfunction or mitochondrial dysfunction. And because ATP is like this primary source of energy for basically all your cells, when you use creatine, you have more ATP. We know what this does for athletic performance. So more ATP means you're stronger. That probably results in more muscle gain. Creatine, we've known this for a long time, but the brain uses a lot of ATP now you have to take more creatine to influence brain metabolism. Higher dose, 5 grams for muscle, probably closer to 15 for the brain. But yes, absolutely.

[Justin Andrews]

So that's why I'm trying to get better about core. Like, okay, like today was great. 87. So I feel good. So I'll take my normal dose of creatine. What I haven't been good about and consistent about is recognizing like, okay, there was a day or two there where that was bad. Like, try intentionally make it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think because we have some relatively long studies that show creatine is really safe. It's this really, really safe compound. We've got lots of studies on creatine. I think if you have a job that's demanding stress as a parent, something that requires you to be sharp, I think it would not be a bad idea to always be in the higher, you know, 10 to 15 grams all the time. Because of all the, the mental load, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So I should probably, what I should do is what you're saying is just try and train myself. It's obviously I have plenty of access to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. He's using the kion because it's like the pure powder. Yeah, pure, pure, super well sourced creatine powder.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, just, you know, take a scoop of it, put it in water, drop in your face, whatever. Wash it down.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

A few times a day.

[Justin Andrews]

Does Keon have the. I know, obviously they have the, the powder in the jug. Did they, do they make individual packets too now? I thought I saw one. Oh, do they? Let me check it out. Look up, look up and see that if they do. I mean, Keon's always, I mean, super quality.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's like super, super high quality stuff. So.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I, the reason why I asked that too, because I didn't know about the, their, their other ea is done Differently. And they. They have it in different forms, flavored and stuff you flavored. And then also.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is just powder.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they have it in pills. They have it in powder. And so I'm wondering if they have. If they have other forms besides just the.

[Sal DeStefano]

The.

[Justin Andrews]

I think they only have the plane. No packets either. And it's in the bottle?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so it's just the EAAs that come in the pills or the powder?

[Sal DeStefano]

Correct.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. So I was wondering if they had different options.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was. Dude, Jay Campbell, him, he texts me every once in a while. You know Jay, he's like, everything's great. Got this new thing or whatever. But, bro, that myostatin inhibiting peptide that they worked on, Remember he talked about this?

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, they said that. So they actually come out with it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's got to be weight. Falliston or Follistatin. Look it up, Doc. Let me see if I'm saying it right.

[Caller/Listener]

I don't know.

[Doug Egge]

I've heard it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this peptide has been around for a long time. I just. I'm going to talk about it because. Keep your eyes on this because I think this is.

[Doug Egge]

Dr. Kahn was trying something.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is going to be probably used by everybody.

[Justin Andrews]

Didn't we inject it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. In the arm?

[Justin Andrews]

No, the one. Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, he gave us. He. He said it was his own one time. Use it, it stays in your body forever type of deal.

[Justin Andrews]

No, not forever. It was like a year.

[Sal DeStefano]

A year or something like that. So I don't really notice much from that.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know. I don't notice a lot from a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, so listen to this. So Jay, I've been talking to him and you know, Jay Joe's like. Jay's like, he loves hyping everything up. So I'm always like teasing him, right? But he's showing me pictures of these people before and after himself. He's like, bro, this stuff is so Follistatin. Is that. Is that what it is?

[Justin Andrews]

Follistatin is the thing he was talking about.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so Follistatin has been around for a while. It's a peptide that reduces myostatin activity. So myostatin is like, it's like what puts the brakes on muscle growth. And if you can effectively block myostatin, which we don't. Haven't done, they can do this genetically. With animals, you just build muscle. It's crazy. So, like the, the. This. All this research is going into these kind of myostatin inhibiting pathways because of GLP1 drugs.

[Doug Egge]

Are they Combining them together.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what they did in some of these studies where they'll take people. They've done it with monkeys so far. Well, they put them on GLP1, then they'll put them on a myostatin, like really powerful myostatin inhibiting drug. And they don't lose any muscle. In fact, they actually gain muscle on low cat. It's really weird and wild. So it's crazy like where this is going. But anyway, Jay's guy is a chemist and he figured out how to make the false statin long acting. Because the problem with false standard was it was so short acting you'd have to literally use it like 10 times a day just to keep it active. Wow, there, what is that one called?

[Justin Andrews]

Holistatin.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Yeah, his is long acting. And he's been telling me and showing me pictures and what people are writing. And this is like, bro, this is going to take the athletic and bodybuilding world by storm. Either this or stuff like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's where I think it's going to be a huge mistake for a lot, for a lot of people. And this is just my personal opinion based off of what I'm been experimenting with myself and have come to realize the hard way is one of my greatest strengths I talk about is that I have this ability to switch it on diet training and like just make real quick. And multiple times now I've allowed myself to fall off the wagon, come back, and when I come back on, I put on 15 to 20 pounds of muscle like that. I mean, fast, but so then all of a sudden all these injuries start.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what, that's a good question. I'm going to ask Jay if this would help you with that.

[Doug Egge]

I would be worse that what's the quality? Because wasn't that like a contention there?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, the study, the monkey studies we're talking about is not this. They're using something so powerful that these monkeys didn't do anything and they're eating low calories.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, but see, that doesn't make any sense. You know that. Okay, so you get that signal, but like, where's the stress and what's, what's compressing it into, like informing it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it will build muscle without strength training. That's a good question. Yeah. So his, his guys are all, all bodybuilders. They're all guys, they're all dudes.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're all working out, training.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So he's, he himself has gained 8 pounds of lean body mass in less than a year, which for Jay is a lot of muscle. He's been strength training for a long time.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just from using. So I'm just saying, like, this is. This new frontier is going to be wild.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's going to be. It's non hormonal. It's going to be. Well. And I'm going to ask him about that with you because I wonder if it'll be worse or better.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. My first instinct is. Yeah, that it's worse because you want

[Sal DeStefano]

to slow it down.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, I need to in. That's where I'm at right now. It's a. It's a really annoying place for me to train.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Really annoying.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sorry.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's like, it's to be going to the gym and like lifting.

[Sal DeStefano]

And your nickname's Mr. Glass.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. This is the nickname you've given me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now. That's messed up.

[Justin Andrews]

It is.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm sorry, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

It's really help.

[Sal DeStefano]

It. It's.

[Justin Andrews]

It's. But this is the only conclusion I've come to is that it has to be something like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Too rapid. It's so rapid. And you took such a long time off from being really consistent, gaining 15 pounds of muscle in like, you know,

[Justin Andrews]

two months, not even 30 days. Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. You tracked it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. I'm doing it in 30 days. I did 21 the last time I did crazy tracking and showed everybody it was. It was 20, 21 pounds in 30 days.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's all muscle memory. Everybody, everyone's.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it's not real.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, buddy.

[Sal DeStefano]

This was all gaining muscle back.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll do, I'll do it again for you. It's not hard for me.

[Doug Egge]

It's like literally brought it back.

[Justin Andrews]

I.

[Sal DeStefano]

It.

[Justin Andrews]

What. And how that happens so quickly back and forth for me is because I, I'm also guilty of the other way. Like when I'm off, I. I also don't eat. I don't eat.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm.

[Justin Andrews]

I like, it's easy for me to skip the first two meals a day and then eat. And then so my calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dramatic muscle losing.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. Exactly. My calories dramatically drop. My protein gets cut in half or more. I'm not stimulating it by lifting consistently, so it just pares down.

[Sal DeStefano]

I lose.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I lose some weight sometimes. Sometimes I gain a little bit because I'm drinking, eating bad stuff. And so I don't really change a lot on the scale. But I. So I gain body fat, I lose Muscle rapidly. See, maybe about a, I don't know, 10 pound change on the scale or whatever like that, but definitely a huge different composition change. And then I turn it on and I go the other opposite. I'm like dialed, dialed, hitting everything, tracking everything, lifting progressive overload week over week. Like, I mean, and then I just. It all comes back. And then all of a sudden the thing that happens is I am quote, unquote, feeling so good in the gym. I. I just keep lifting more because I can. I feel like I can totally lift weight. And I'm not, by the way, I'm not pushing it. It's not like I'm going in there and going like, trying to hit PRs, hitting singles. It's just that every time I come back to squats, I can add another quarter on and then add another quarter on and it's just like. And then all of a sudden I feel pools, tears, I feel strains, and it just keeps happening to me.

[Sal DeStefano]

You gotta like settle and do it slowly.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Get your body used to. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And just do that for a while. And that's kind of where I'm at right now. I'm like, I'm doing the same weights, which is so counterintuitive for me when it's like when I know I can do more and. But I know I'm like, I just need to stay here for a while and really just condition the body and the joints.

[Sal DeStefano]

What a weird problem to have.

[Justin Andrews]

Weird.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I mean?

[Justin Andrews]

Weird.

[Sal DeStefano]

Weird. Stop progressing too fast.

[Justin Andrews]

Stop it. Yeah. But what I know is that it's the same thing that I said has been so awesome about having all this muscle memory from getting older. The, the downfall of is, is what I'm realizing now is just when it comes back that quick, it presents other challenges.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's the, and the irony of that is this, you know, and I, and I understand too, being on hormone replacement therapy. It feeds into that if I was letting myself be low testosterone at my levels where now I wouldn't be able to build that back that fast. What allows me to do that is I've got good high toss, I've got optimal testosterone levels. And so, you know, the body naturally would put. Put brakes on that for me, but, you know, I keep it at optimal levels.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'd even consider that.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah. And so it, so it packs in it on where. So, yeah, it's a blessing and a curse.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah. I'm having kind of like an entirely different experience right now. It's like. So I have had like this run of maybe a week of the most high intensity, high volume, like, work capacity, you know, just physically exhausting.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're digging holes, bro. Yeah. And.

[Doug Egge]

And I feel the best I felt in a long time. And it's like really like mixed emotions about it because it's like I used to train at a really high intensity all the time and then like really dramatically shifted because of, you know, everything we talk about. And it made a big, huge difference because I just trained that way forever. And then this stark shift was like my body responded and I had all this like crazy progress to the point where I feel like I've been too low volume for too long. So now like, I'm jumping up high, but. But I'm. I'm going full, you know what?

[Justin Andrews]

Full tilt?

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, full tilt. I like that. It's better. Full tilt all the way. And I'm just like, I have to taper that now because I'm like. Because I'm. I'm like, it's antsy to now bring that into my training more because it's like I'm still. I'm lifting weights, but I'm also doing all this manual labor work and all this kind of stuff. Just trying to, like, you know, be productive, get on top of things. And. And I. And I'm getting the best sleep, granted. I've been outside and I've been getting

[Justin Andrews]

a lot of sun.

[Doug Egge]

You know, I've been eating a lot more. And so you could like, factor a lot of these other things in.

[Sal DeStefano]

Plus, we're so sedentary.

[Justin Andrews]

But yeah, so this. So okay. Yes. So you want to know something interesting since you went this direction about last night's sleep score? Part of it that's a little wild to me is like, it wasn't my best. Turning everything off early, getting to bed on my consistent time last night. You know what I did yesterday was I did an hour in the red light sauna, I did an hour of cardio, and I trained all in the day and I just slept. I think we have become so sedentary for so long here.

[Doug Egge]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

And if we're killing me, dude, we're

[Sal DeStefano]

here from 9am to 5pm just for listeners. We will get approximately a 15 to 20 minute walk. That's it? Yeah, that's it. The rest of it's sitting here, doing the show in meetings, doing business stuff. So that's it. From nine to five.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doing 20 minutes of walking. Yeah, that's way sedentary, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

It's totally even. Even the Hour. Hour on the treadmill and working out still put me under a 10,000 step day.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was an appropriate activity day.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's. And then I got this great. And then. And then also I sit in the red light for the red light sauna for. For an hour. And so I think my body just needed to get exhausted like that. And then I. And like I said, I didn't even have my best loop or two. I'm like. I look back, I actually told Katrina, I'm like, man, I told you I

[Sal DeStefano]

wanted to get to bed early.

[Justin Andrews]

We ended up staying up late talking all stuff like that. And I'm like, but what? I got an 87 on my score. It's so weird, but the only thing I could draw it back to is like, oh, I did all those things. I'm like, man, if I would have also got to bed on time, maybe I would actually hit that elusive 90 that I've been trying to. To get after. But what it highlighted to me more than anything else is like, God, that's how much I need to get more of that in my life. Because my body needs to.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, I need to figure this out, how to get that in there.

[Justin Andrews]

Is there somewhere, probably in the middle, though, for you. I feel like.

[Doug Egge]

I feel like I can't sustain this. And I was talking to Corey that last night, it was just like, oh, my God, I could barely even move my arms. Like, I was just like, so fried and. But. But at the same time, I had this weird, you know, like, you get that. That kind of rush. And it's probably the cortisol feeling, you know, where I was just like, oh, I'm like, I feel really, like, weirdly good and, you know, energized, but at the same time, my body was trash.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe we should have, like, treadmills while we podcast. It's so silly to me. I know. I get it. You're moving. But, you know, you see, like, fitness podcasts and they'll do the podcast, but they're on a treadmill while they're talking.

[Doug Egge]

It's so much. Yeah, but I get it. Same time, because.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I get it.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I don't. Like, I think it would be just you. You did this. You know, kudos to you. Starting us on this was like, you were like, we need at least after the pocket get up and do our. And we do.

[Sal DeStefano]

And that's minimal. It just helps with our show.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, what we should do is we should do it before also now is like, we should just Agree when we get here because we kind of have a slow start anyways to a day. Hey, let's. Yeah, exactly. Let's go walk before the first one and then do our, our break and do another one. And even then we're still gonna be. But I mean, I think, I think that in itself will create.

[Sal DeStefano]

We'll actually increase our productivity.

[Justin Andrews]

I think so too. I think so too. And so it'd be a good, A good habit for us. And that. I mean, and by the way, I'm not advocating for an hour, sauna, hour of cardio, hour of training the average person. But what it really highlighted to me was just how, to your point, how sedentary we've been, how much my body needs more of that, which is not normally. The person who listens to this podcast is normally a fitness enthusiast type of person. So that's not the recipe for the average person. I just. We are, we sit in here for, for so long.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Speaking of all that, I just. God, you know, it's been so rewarding because, you know, we've been doing this now for over, over 10 years and I haven't really, I haven't personal trained for most of that time. But now we have trainers and coaches here that train clients in person and virtually. And you know, we get to kind of be a part of it here and there. And I always tell the truth. The trainers, I mean, bring me in on the calls. I'd love to talk to people if you need help or if the person's a fan of the show, wants to meet. Like, I'd love to just get to know these people. Well, yesterday I was on with Will and one of his clients, I won't say her name just to protect her privacy, but I've talked to her several times now and you guys, the improvement that she's been going through and seeing is I. Emotional. It got me emotional. So this person working with Will was. Came out of an in treatment facility for eating disorder. So she started working. She. Her. Yeah, her insurance was in the COVID therapist. She couldn't find a good one. She was a fan of the show. She called in and wanted to work with one of our trainers and coaches. And we did the whole like, okay, we're not therapists, but we can help you with the fitness. And anyway, I got on with her and I haven't seen her probably in. It's been maybe 45 days. And just the way she looked was so dramatically different. She looks so vibrant, awesome, so healthy. And she's taking these baby Steps because she. I mean, she was just really extreme in one direction. So we're taking these steps with eating more, exercising less, because she's due chronic exerciser. Like, you know, how are you thinking about yourself? And so we're having these conversations just.

[Justin Andrews]

Bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got on camera, I looked at her, and I almost. Like, I was tearing up just to see the difference in her face and her hair and her health. Oh, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Now you got on. Was she having more challenges or was she excited about.

[Sal DeStefano]

She's pumped.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

She's pumped. She's so pumped. She's so excited. So, like, I can't believe I'm here and my family's excited and my dog, you know, my. You know, this is happening. That all this positive stuff, she's still. We're still processing through, still moving through. But this is the best. I think she told me this is the best she's ever done. And her strength's going up, and it's just so cool. It's just so cool to see that, you know?

[Doug Egge]

Super encouraging to see that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Super. Will's doing a phenomenal job with her. He's a really good coach. It's so great his brother got to sit in because now he's. He's working here.

[Justin Andrews]

It's so wild to see the. So what's so different for me is most of my career even less than personal training. I train trainers.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So that I'm used to having a staff of 15 to 20 trainers working for me. I've had hundreds over the. Over the decades that have worked for me, and I've never seen anything like the team that we have. And it's. Obviously, I didn't have this podcast. Right. And so a lot of it took. It would take a year, maybe two years of really, really developing a trainer. Before, they were, like, real good trainers.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And these trainers. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Three months.

[Doug Egge]

It's like they jumped five, ten years of experience.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

In a year.

[Doug Egge]

They just leapfrogged.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. To that point, like, I'm. I listened to them communicate to the clients. Like, dude, I couldn't communicate to my clients until, like, year eight or nine.

[Doug Egge]

Stumbling on my words is terrible.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. And so it's so cool to see these. And it's not because they have eight, nine years of experience. Some of them will have less than a couple years and. But it's. They all have been podcast.

[Sal DeStefano]

I came out of that right with Will. I come in here. Doug and I are watching something. So I'm here for a bit. I'm doing some Work. I had to write some emails. Then I walk out and all the trainers are sitting in that area and they're reviewing coaching calls for each other, which is phenomenal. They're literally watching. And like, how could you have communicated this better? How can you help with your clients consistency? Do you think this was the right, you know, the right advice? And they're just like. And they're like, it's like, that's part of the reason is the way that they're working on it. It's amazing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's amazing how these guys.

[Justin Andrews]

The Friday meetings are really cool too, where in fact, Kyle has just evolved it to another layer to it. It's similar where all the coaches and trainers. Half the call is designed to client challenges is what we call it. Where, you know, what are some of the challenges you and every trainer that has one will start to share, oh, I've got a client. We're struggling with this, this and that. Then you get to hear, you know, 22 other trainers are, are all brilliant that are, hey, this has worked for me in the past. Try this. And so they're all, all learning together. And then from there now it breaks up into these subgroups. And so. And they're led by some of our leader trainers that are leading the other trainers and so educating them. And so that's the big focus right now. I shared a thing with Kyle that was. Was huge for me when I was leading trainers. And I remember I was so frustrated that it came so late in my career because I was like, man, I wish someone would have told me this sooner. But it was. This was a stat that. This is 24 fitness days that they had put up on the projector at one of these big meetings. And it was a trainer that had one certification, two certification, three, 34. And if you had one certification, you averaged this many clients in a month, you project, you did this much revenue, and you stayed this long in the company. And that all those line items dramatically increase by every certification that the trainer got. The moral of the story was just the more educated they were, the more

[Sal DeStefano]

likely they were, the better.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, the better they were, the longer they stayed, the more sales they did, the more clients they trained. It was just like it was. And it was a huge leap. And I remember going back to my club that very next day and going like, okay, at that time, I had two trainers that were going through the medical program to be doctors, really intelligent, already had multiple certifications. And I started to allocate my budget without getting approval to do this because they would have said no. I just did it anyways. And I paid those trainers. I paid those trainers to elevate all their other trainers, get them up on their certifications. And so. And it was that after that was the baddest team. Justin was a part of that team. You know, we. I had the smallest team. I dropped down. I think 12 trainers we were running at one time, broke all kinds of records. All master trainers. And it was the easiest my job ever was. And so a big focus right now is we're pulling in brink shallow. And then one other one I forgot who. Who we're working on, that we're going to pay to take all of them through and become masters at all those disciplines. And so I know to think how badass they already are is bringing them all to. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So I'm super excited for what's coming down the pipe with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I'm gonna change topics. So the platform X just came out with this new policy that I think a lot of other platforms are gonna follow suit on. So you guys already see this. That AI content is just everywhere.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's all over the place.

[Justin Andrews]

It's getting so good too. It's so hard to distinguish whether it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is.

[Justin Andrews]

And you have to. I shared a fake video thinking it

[Sal DeStefano]

was real and it's just going to get worse.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So X just did this. They said they just passed the policy. If you're caught posting an AI generated video without disclosing that it's AI, you get suspended from producing. From getting any revenue. So create a revenue sharing for 90 days. If you repeat as an offender, they'll ban you permanently. So I think this is what the other platforms have to do. Yeah. Otherwise what's gonna happen is. And you're seeing this right now with the war in Iran, what is real?

[Doug Egge]

Just the deception. Yeah. Who knows what to.

[Sal DeStefano]

And Iran's producing it, Russia's producing it. America's producing it. People are producing it for views. You're watching it come through. Is that real? Did they just bomb that place? Is that a real new airplane?

[Doug Egge]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that.

[Doug Egge]

Did that person just verified.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Did that. Is that. You know, it's just. It's crazy. And it's just gonna get worse. Yeah. So I think that they have to do. I think these platforms are gonna have to say, look, if we catch you and you don't disclose it, you're gonna pay a penalty.

[Justin Andrews]

I know YouTube did something similar. YouTube demonetized any AI pages too. So that's the the quick and easy way to do it is to do that. It's going to be interesting how they do that because a lot of these pages aren't necessarily monetizing though, either. So, like, there's plenty of like, you

[Sal DeStefano]

know, like just random.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, just random popular pages.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, at the moment, what happens on X, this is the best platform I've seen for AI and it's not great yet, but it's the best one is that they'll use Grok because Grok is the AI that they use on X. And so a video will get posted. All someone has to do is underneath it.

[Doug Egge]

They asked Rock.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, hey, Grok, is this. Is this video real? Yeah. And then Grok, like right away is, you know. Oh, no, this is actually a video from 2018. It's not, you know, this or. No, this is an AI created video. This is not real. And so. So you have to wait a second. But they're able to do that pretty well so far.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's kind of cool. Anyway, I saw Doug yesterday. He's. I think he's one of the. The culprits for the missing Chris Power bags. Oh, he was over there crushing.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't think you liked him as

[Sal DeStefano]

much as I did. He was crushing.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, they're my dirty little secret.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now you have another dirty secret.

[Justin Andrews]

We don't want to talk about that one.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you were eating the what? The everything bagel ones.

[Justin Andrews]

Everything bagel ones. Oh, that's how you eat the fire one. That was the other day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my God.

[Justin Andrews]

You are eating way more than you snacks.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are they under there? That's where the Chris Power is.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

We now have a little stash here inside the studio.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our staff just crushes you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

See, they're popping up all over the place too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Chris Power.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I think. I think Costco. Did I see Costco also?

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, look up. I think. I know they're also. I think that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll tell you. Let me tell you, everybody, why that snack is going to just destroy.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's high protein.

[Justin Andrews]

A high protein carb.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cool. Yes, it's high protein. Cool. It doesn't taste. It tastes like a sizzling pretzel. Yeah, dude. And they're flavored and it's just good and that. You know that you do that. You're just going to.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, they're absolutely crushing it already. And I think they're already in a bunch of major stores. I mean, like, literally from. You didn't know about Him What?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

Eight months ago.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, never heard of him.

[Justin Andrews]

It was, like, so crazy. You. That.

[Caller/Listener]

Who.

[Justin Andrews]

Who connected us. You remember who connected us? Yes, dude. You don't remember.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So you remember when we did. Yes, yes. That was. His old Instagram name was Keto Head. Yeah, we interviewed him.

[Sal DeStefano]

We were at.

[Doug Egge]

What was that? With Joe Decina. The race.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Spartan race. This is like year. Year two or three, I want to say three of us.

[Sal DeStefano]

We met.

[Justin Andrews]

We met him. We met him at Spartan. He remained a fan and a listener.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

And every once in a while, he would. He would comment dm. And so I knew he was a listener because he would comment on something we were talking about, what that. And so we. We'd stay in touch over the years. And he. I don't remember what. I think he saw me, like. Like one of their stuff, and he's like, hey, yeah, I can send you. Send you a box with that. And then he was one of. He's. He's one of the founders, I believe, behind it. Sent it over. And I was like, dude, yeah, we gotta get on the phone. Yeah, we go on the phone. I. I really like these. And that's how that happened.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, the game with that, Right. Is you make a snack, you get it everywhere, and then you sell to a big company. Yeah. And you get a big. Yeah, that's the whole.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you see where it's all at? Yeah, you can get at Costco. It is at Costco.

[Doug Egge]

It's already in Costco.

[Justin Andrews]

Geez.

[Caller/Listener]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Doug Egge]

Game over, dude. What's happening?

[Sal DeStefano]

That's. That's awesome. That's super rough. Have you guys seen. You guys seen the list for. Speaking of dirty secret, have you guys seen the list of the dirty dozen foods that are the highest in pesticides? Have you guys seen this? I've seen that.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I have not. So can we get fruit?

[Sal DeStefano]

So, yeah, so there's fruits and vegetables. Which ones are the highest?

[Justin Andrews]

So I'm gonna go lettuce and berries. So strawberries, lettuce, all berries. I'm gonna throw in apples. Apples.

[Sal DeStefano]

You guys are hitting for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So spinach, strawberries.

[Doug Egge]

Anything without a hard.

[Justin Andrews]

That was it. That was one of the best, like, takes I had someone, like, if you're not gonna go organic, Right. And start seeing the ones.

[Sal DeStefano]

Go organic.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, these are the ones.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you can also wash them. Yeah, you can also just wash them really well. Yeah, but spinach, strawberries, kale, collard, mustard greens, grapes, peaches, cherries, Nectarines, pears, apples, blackberries, blueberries, and potatoes.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, how much potatoes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sorry?

[Justin Andrews]

Come on now. How much have you gone? I've gone a bit, you know, talking about AI and what's real, what's not real. It's like, I don't know what to believe. Now, I've seen some interesting content on what a scam organic is and that the. In order to be called organic, the barrier is so low and they're even using things on it that are just as bad or arguably worse for you than the other crap. And so how much have you looked into that? And do you know, like, how valuable is it? And you're talking about a. I want

[Doug Egge]

to say regulations are wrong.

[Justin Andrews]

I want to say the numbers, like, on average, 40, 40%, higher prices on a lot of stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

They are. So the best studies that I've seen are ones where they test the food or. And. Or they test people's urine. This is where you'll see pesticide load. And there's actually. There was actually a few studies where they took people and they had to only eat. So they tested their urine, they were eating conventional, then they had them not change their diet, switch to organic, and then change your urine. And there was a remarkable different.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, yes. Okay. Yes. So it makes a difference. I'd still wash them, though. Still wash your stuff. Because even organic pesticides and stuff can actually sometimes show higher rates.

[Justin Andrews]

That's why I said heavy metals. That's why I said that's what it was. It was. Yeah. You have the. So it's like you're. You're. You're, you know, trading one thing off or trading at one thing out, but then you're getting something else that's arguably just as bad or worse for you.

[Doug Egge]

Oh.

[Justin Andrews]

And so, you know, is it worth the 40%? I do want to be clear, though. We've said this since day one.

[Sal DeStefano]

You actually remove a decent amount if you wash them, especially, like, apples. Like, if you take the apple, you get a brush, you can use regular dish soap and then rinse it off. You'll get the pesticide.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, you get a lot of it. Dude, this reminds me of the food talk. Doug, if you could look this up. Apparently the grandson of the founder of, like, Reese's had just exposed. I don't know. Again, we have to fact check that this is real or not or AI but that, like, some of the ingredients that had changed over is, like, not even, you know, natural or real ingredients.

[Justin Andrews]

I heard this. What do you mean it's fake?

[Doug Egge]

Like Yeah, I don't know if it's the peanut butter.

[Sal DeStefano]

Peanut butter?

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

It's not.

[Doug Egge]

It's just, like, manufactured.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's like the Oreo stuff. I told you. It's like nothing real about it, dude. Like, it's not real. It's not real peanut butter and chocolate.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

So you're just eating, like, just plastic sugar.

[Justin Andrews]

Brad Reese's grandson, Critter, has accused the

[Sal DeStefano]

Hershey company of skimflation by quietly replacing quality ingredients with cheaper alternatives. In February 2026 LinkedIn letter, he alleged that real milk chocolate is being swapped for compound coatings and peanut butter for peanut butter style crims.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Peanut butter style.

[Justin Andrews]

How many?

[Doug Egge]

Like, how, dude? And you go through the. Like, if that's one of the major companies doing this. And of course, profit margins play a huge factor into this. And then they found cheap alternatives that taste like the food you were eating before, but it's not really the food anymore. How many, like, items are out there that aren't even real?

[Sal DeStefano]

I gotta say this, though. This is what they're probably doing. They're looking at their, like. Like heavy users. Like the Reese's Pieces. Heavy users. Yeah. And they're like, do you think they're not gonna buy it if we swap out? Nobody's gonna care. Nobody's eating Reese's and going, oh, yes.

[Doug Egge]

It's not like, high consumption.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

If you are, you got more problems. You got diabetes and everything else.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're not.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's bad. It's the same game that we saw in the toothpaste, shampoo, soap.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's different. Those are products that are, like, advertising natural.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, no. Not. That's what I mean by that. But they're also skimming.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You don't even know their price. Like, their price went up 40 cents and they took 2 ounces out from you. Right. You know what I'm saying? So you're like, oh, that's not bad. It's 40 cents more. That's normal inflation. You know what I'm saying? It's like, no, they.

[Sal DeStefano]

Toilet paper did that.

[Justin Andrews]

They did. Toilet paper did it. Everybody did it. Toothpaste did it. Deodorant did it. Shampoo, everything that we use on a regular basis all did it. Go back and look at your deodorant sticks. Go back and look at your toothpaste bottles. Go back and look at your shampoo bottles. They all skimmed ounces off and increased price simultaneously all during.

[Doug Egge]

Was that cotton ball? Was that just like Part of, you know, when they put it in the bottle just to fill the space.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, like a pill bottle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, I think they do that so it doesn't rattle around. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So it doesn't become powder.

[Doug Egge]

I think that's. I think that's literally just like give you.

[Justin Andrews]

You less. I mean, that's what's a bigger scam. Are chip bags.

[Doug Egge]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Chip. Chip bags are. Are double the. Double the size.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you know, they do that to protect the chips not getting crushed, right?

[Justin Andrews]

I know, but you don't need double the size. You can get away with.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can use some.

[Justin Andrews]

You can use some cotton padding and stuff like that. Get away with a fraction of the

[Sal DeStefano]

price, you know, it's the worst. The worst.

[Doug Egge]

That's just a noisy.

[Sal DeStefano]

The worst chips are. What are they called? Pringles.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're not even sliced potato chips. They're like potato flakes. And then they press them into the chip shaver.

[Doug Egge]

You know, it reminds me of like particle board.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Doug Egge]

Glued together and just smash it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like it's all the crumbs left in everybody's back.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then they just. They just press them into these shapes.

[Justin Andrews]

Some dude is going around the country

[Sal DeStefano]

and he's getting it because you.

[Justin Andrews]

No one ever throws a bag of chips out without crumbs at the bottom.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. You got to eat them, dude. In your face. That's me, dog. You know me and potato chips, bro. That's my favorite.

[Doug Egge]

Salty.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good. If you fry a potato, I will eat it. I don't care how you make it. Whatever. If it's fried, it's done.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you ever tried to make your

[Sal DeStefano]

own smoothie on that potato chips?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I don't know how.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I don't think it's like, I don't. I don't think making your own. I don't think it's that difficult.

[Sal DeStefano]

How do you slice them? With a knife.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you can get a slicer too. They make slicers?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Throw them in hot oil.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, we watch. I've always wanted to make a lot of work. I've always tried. I always wanted to try and make. Make in and out french fries at home. You see them do the potato right there, and then it just gets dropped into the deep fryer and it's salt.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, is it. Is it peanut oil days?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, peanut oils, that's five guys.

[Doug Egge]

Which I actually prefer that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Five guys.

[Justin Andrews]

You like five guys over. In and out fries.

[Doug Egge]

My stomach.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's the deal. In and out fries. I could eat a lot of them and. And not be like, five guys. Fries are good.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's see what they're frying. In and out. What is in and out frying?

[Doug Egge]

It's real potatoes. You're like, oh, it's a lot of potatoes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, if we're like. By the way, if you're, like, splitting hairs on what the. You know where your potatoes get. You know, your French fries get fried. Like, it's.

[Caller/Listener]

This is that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the Lane Norton, which I. I get that. You know what I'm saying? It's like. It's like the Reese's peanut butter. It's like if you're eating bags of Reese, but it doesn't really matter.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's fake. I started a diet.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm angry about it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It's like my favorite candy, dude.

[Doug Egge]

Sunflower oil.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sunflower oil.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Also not good, right? Probably not good now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, is any. I mean, other.

[Sal DeStefano]

I guess.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I mean, you know, McDonald's, I

[Doug Egge]

think, used to use beef tallow.

[Sal DeStefano]

They used to, until they got sued.

[Justin Andrews]

I thought they brought it back.

[Doug Egge]

I don't think so.

[Justin Andrews]

Wasn't that what RFK was all campaigning on? Bring back, Bring back.

[Sal DeStefano]

That'll solve the obc.

[Justin Andrews]

Also, another great lady lost.

[Doug Egge]

Didn't Trump pass something for Monsanto? Like, allowed now?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, they're not cutting it. They're not.

[Doug Egge]

They're not cutting the glide.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because it's required for national security.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah. The Roundup and all that.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like, it's required for national security.

[Sal DeStefano]

So much food is now dependent on using.

[Doug Egge]

So they cut into the.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, the inventory to maintain our obesity.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Are those the numbers that it uses?

[Sal DeStefano]

We're gonna put America on the North Korean diet. I mean, you've seen the studies on, like, countries like North Korea. Like, the Average person loses 15 pounds because they have no food. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, we don't want to do that.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, a lot of us could afford to be on the show alone for a little while and see. It'll be just.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. What if Alone was a weight loss show?

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder how many people get on it with that bad strategy, though, because most. Some of these contestants can't even last a week out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, the vegans on those shows, sometimes. Sometimes I'll have a vegan on there. I'm like, do you know what you're saying?

[Justin Andrews]

Have they made a vegan on there?

[Sal DeStefano]

In the early days.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Early days. There was a couple.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you sure?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug Egge]

Towards the end, they actually, like, conceded and they ate. I think it was like a squirrel or something. Yeah, it was.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't. You can't be a vegan to make that show Here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right here.

[Justin Andrews]

No way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let me see. I saw one. While there has been not been confirmed strictly vegan, several contestants identified as vegetarian or near vegetarian.

[Doug Egge]

Or vegetarian.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I was going to say you're. You become whatever when you get out there. I mean, you're eating squirrels normally. One of the first meals they end up getting.

[Sal DeStefano]

They signed this guy up like, you know, they were laughing like, you guys, you know, we signed up. You're not vegan.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they did it. It was just for tv.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't want to kill any.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, it's the last. It's one of the last real reality shows.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it real?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Has anybody died?

[Justin Andrews]

They have. They have medical people that come out every so many weeks and they. They have to go through a full testing and they actually will. Many of them get kicked out.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw an episode where the guy killed a caribou. I don't know, something like that big animal. And he stored the fat because you need the fat. Yeah. And a wolverine got to it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the poor guy happens all the time. Devastated.

[Justin Andrews]

It's. It's one of the most difficult parts is like, you get a big game. So first of all. Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

Where are you gonna store it?

[Justin Andrews]

The contestants that typically win are the ones that do get the big game, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But they also are the ones that are able to save the fat and keep it from the predators. Because all you have these little critters that get in and so they have to build these crazy.

[Doug Egge]

Hang it, dry it out, or you smoke it, whatever it is. Like, it's. That's like a huge signal going out to, like, every animal that's like, in vicinity.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wasn't there one where they were like, in an area with. Was it polar bears? No, grizzly bears.

[Justin Andrews]

Polar bears. Grizzly bears. I don't know if they've done.

[Doug Egge]

No, I can't do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Will kill you.

[Sal DeStefano]

They'll actually hunt. You'll actually hunt.

[Caller/Listener]

You.

[Justin Andrews]

Definitely. Grizzly bear.

[Doug Egge]

So aggressive.

[Justin Andrews]

Grizzly bears, moose, wolverines, wolves, all of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw this one guy, he was in one of those, like, observation. It was like a plexiglass observation, like, thing, supposedly safe. And a polar bear is like. Walked up, came up and was like. I mean, he was trying to get in and the guy's in there. I'm terrified. Like man, if he figures this out, I'm dead. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What will be more terrifying? Polar bear trying to get into your plexiglass or a great white shark trying to get into your. Your cage? Oh, which one's more terrifying?

[Sal DeStefano]

White shark, because I can't swim.

[Justin Andrews]

I agree. I think. I feel like this shark. I feel like there's a. There's a. I. I think there's a slim chance I get away from the polarware. There's no chance I'm swimming away from.

[Doug Egge]

Well, I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

I just did that, right? Don't you guys think that's it? That's the logic?

[Doug Egge]

Like, you could just throw a blast the shark and just hope for the best. You can't do anything to the freaking bear.

[Sal DeStefano]

A polar bear will eat you.

[Doug Egge]

It will maul you and just.

[Sal DeStefano]

It actually doesn't kill you. It just starts eating you.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, God.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know that.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It doesn't kill you. Almost.

[Justin Andrews]

Where you at? Shark or definitely a shark is more scary for me.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, I mean, that's scary.

[Justin Andrews]

So you're the only.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're the only one.

[Justin Andrews]

I will. I'll go. Shark.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, there was a. Just. There was just a video.

[Doug Egge]

Where was My odds are like slightly better.

[Sal DeStefano]

Where was it? It's. It's around here, Justin. Where? There was a. There was a great white that was just swimming around. Oh, here. Around the marina. Well, bro, just swimming around the marina here.

[Doug Egge]

A few shark attacks. There's one recent one that was in.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's just swimming around.

[Doug Egge]

It was in Monterey or Carmel.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

You better double check that.

[Doug Egge]

This lady was like.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at the comments.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's Marina, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

This is real Marina over where I

[Sal DeStefano]

used to live, San Francisco.

[Justin Andrews]

Look, look, it's just swimming over Marina that way. Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, hell no.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, I mean, she's gone though. Like. Like they. Like there's one lady that actually got eaten and she's gone.

[Justin Andrews]

Eaten? Like fully eaten? Yeah. I thought I shouldn't even do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Depends how delicious you are, Justin.

[Justin Andrews]

We get eaten Reese's peanut Butter cups. It tastes like Reese's Peanut Butter.

[Doug Egge]

It's like very infrequent.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's the one. You.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, like, this is like Reese's Peanut Butter.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, damn, the marbling. Hey, Fred, come over here.

[Doug Egge]

If you catch me at the right time, this guy's butt.

[Justin Andrews]

He's not afraid of us.

[Sal DeStefano]

Get him.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Red light therapy has been shown in studies, lots of studies. Improve recovery, make your skin healthier and younger. Regrow hair, reduce pain and inflammation, boost testosterone how does it work? Red light therapy. The red light goes hits the mitochondria. They produce more energy. So any cell you shine it on works better. Here's the problem. Most red light therapy panels online are crap. They're not using the same wavelength, the same intensity as the ones in the studies. Well, there's a company called Joovv. Joovv uses the same red light therapy power intensity panels that you'll find in the studies. It really works. And if you go on our link, you'll get $50 off. Go to Joovv.com that's J-O-O-V-V.com mindpump. The code is mindpump for the $50 off. Back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Our first caller is Veronica from Virginia.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi Veronica.

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing? Veronica?

[Sal DeStefano]

Hello.

[Caller/Listener]

Hi, how are you? I'm honored to be here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. How can we help you?

[Caller/Listener]

I'm going to dive in. Okay, so I'm a 56 year old female who's been lifting since the age of 17. After having two children in my early 30s, I began lifting regularly at age 39. At age 49, I did my first figure show at age 53. During my fifth show, I won my natural Pro card. During my years of competing, I earned a certification for nutrition coaching. That being relevant in that I think I approach food restriction with every competition with a good mindset, understanding that competition competing is choice and privilege, not a sacrifice. I love the challenge of prep and seeing how it changes the composition of my physique much more so than the competition itself. I continue to think about doing another show, potentially doing them as long as possible since now that I'm older, I hope to continue inspiring other women to lift weights. I currently lift daily, approximately 60 minutes. It's part of my routine that makes me happy. I miss it if I don't go, but I don't stress if life gets in the way. I just view it as an unavoidable break. Over the past year, I've gotten bored with generic lifting and have recently been exposed to powerlifting. Listening to your podcast regularly. I'm now at the point where I'd like to carve out a six to eight week period and focus solely on everything your group discusses. Strength, flexibility, power, etc. While still building a symmetrical physique for the stage, I've never followed a purchase program. I've always taught myself and created my own splits. So my question can you recommend the best mind pump program I should be using to take me to the next level, potentially gearing up to enter another cut for another show with a more athletic physique.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow. Yeah, I got a few ideas around this, by the way. Great job.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Very good job. And you look super vibrant and healthy. So this is.

[Caller/Listener]

Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, this is great.

[Caller/Listener]

I feel good. And I'll add to that that I'm proud to be 56, and I feel like I'm 30. I feel like I'm younger than 30.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, well, you look really vibrant and healthy. You know what I love about people who are doing it right with fitness is they love to tell their age because you just feel so good. You know, a lot of times women are like, I don't want to tell you how old I am, but I love that fitness people are the first thing out of their mouth. It's like, hey, guess what? So that's awesome. Okay, so I have a few ideas around this now, because you want to compete and there's an aesthetic component. I have one idea for a program, but then I have another program that's more unconventional that you might find a lot that's going to be fun for you, and that's going to train you a little differently. Okay. Either one I think you would enjoy. When is your next competition? I think that'll help me.

[Caller/Listener]

So, you know, I don't have anything specific in mind. My oldest son has his natural pro card, too, and we've never done a show together. We've talked about it, but I just. I. We've been around the end of the summer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, so end of this summer, I'm flexible. I mean, I've learned the long way that just because you think you're ready doesn't mean necessarily mean that you're ready.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a good. That's a good answer. That's a good answer.

[Caller/Listener]

I have all the time in the world.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, well, so I have a program called MAP Strong. It's going to be very different from what you're used to, and I think you would have a lot of fun training with it. A lot of posterior chain focus. So, you know, as far as development's concerned, you're gonna see a lot of back, shoulders and glutes from that program, but it's not a, you know, you know, bodybuilding physique, you know, stage presentation type of program. It's, it's. It's. There's a more of an athletic component. There's some stamina involved, but it's still a strength program. On the other hand, I have something called Map Symmetry, which is going to be it's going to have the aesthetic component you're looking for. And it's, it's probably different from what you're used to because the first few phases or a couple phases is like all unilateral training. It's all one side and then train the other in different forms and varieties. And if you've never done long blocks of that, you'll definitely see some nice balance and symmetry coming out of that. So you'll see, you'll identify weaknesses from right to left, and then you'll get some balance out of it. And it's more bodybuilding than map strong. So it just depends on which one appeals to you more.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll tell you I prefer strong and I'll tell you why. How much of my competing journey have you heard me talk about on the show? Have you heard much me? Have you heard me talk about it much?

[Caller/Listener]

I have heard you talk about it. I didn't know you guys have mixed feelings about it. That's why I did want to put out there that I kind of, I think I view it with a good mindset.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I think you do too. I think you're an. I know we, we deter a lot of people from competing. I think you have a very healthy mindset and balance around it. And I think you look great, and I think that's why you look great is because you have a good relationship with it. So I think you're would be a blast to train through this. What I wanted to share with you was my most of my lifting career, I trained even though I wasn't a bodybuilder. I trained that way, did my own splits program like that. One of the best packages or physiques I brought to stage was when I on the off season trained like a power lifter, like completely let go of my kind of bodybuilding focus split. And yet, even though it's not a quote unquote bodybuilding program, I got the greatest gains in muscle I'd ever seen on my back and my legs and my shoulder. It was just, it was incredible. And so even though maps quote unquote strong is not quote unquote a bodybuilder program, I think lifting that way in the off season in a calorie surplus will bring you the best physique you've yet brought to stage.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not even a powerlifting program, but so some of the lifts you might not even be familiar with, but it is a strength program. So the goal really, it's trained, it's designed in a way for somebody who competes in strongman competitions. So the lifts, so the lifts are kind of around that and there is an athletic component. But I can guarantee there's going to be quite a few lifts and exercise in there that you probably either haven't done or haven't programmed. But body wise, it's a lot of posterior chain and shoulders, a lot of back glutes and delts is what you'll get.

[Justin Andrews]

It'll be, it'll be an awesome program. And you know, remember too like you, what you bring to stage is done in the off season. Like you already have a great muscle balance. Like you could probably diet right now and get ready and present yourself again on stage and look great again. What will really change or bring a better version of your physique is to do something that you don't normally do, to add muscle in places that you've never added muscle before. And so doing something like a map strong I think will bring something unique and different that I think you'll really, really like. It was one of the best things that I ever did in my bodybuilding career was to kind of focus over on the powerlifting and the strong type of training which was so unique to me and so not focused bodybuilder. And yet here I then I bring the best version of my body to stage. And I think because you're such an experienced lifter and competitor, I think you'll get similar benefits by focusing that way. So I would do strong, I would do it in a calorie surplus to, to build. And then after you go get done with strong, then where you're at from there, then you plan your show like, okay, now I'm gonna go back to like a split or go to a maps aesthetic type of program and then start my, my diet heading into to the stage for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'll be fun if you're getting, you know, if you've been doing traditional strength training, you know, kind of bodybuilding style, powerlifting style for a while, it'll be. And you're like, yeah, I want to try something different. Yeah, you'll find it fun. It'll be enjoyable.

[Caller/Listener]

It sounds fun.

I think that that's exactly. I'm surprised that you guys are suggesting something that is exciting me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, cool.

[Caller/Listener]

I'm sure about all the programs and I probably never, I never would have went for that one.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's one of our most popular programs, especially with women who have strength training background. They always report back and they go, this is one of, this is my favorite program.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

All right.

[Justin Andrews]

You're gonna love the results from it. We'll send that, we'll send that over, over to you. And it's, it's 12 weeks, I believe. Yeah, yeah, 12 weeks. So run, trust the process. Remind you that. Trust the process, run it. Because that's the one thing, you know, when you got a trainer brain, you get in your own way and you start, oh, let me change this or add that. Yeah, have faith in us that we got you and you'll be very happy.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you know, you, you, you know this already, but just, you know, confirm like when you do new movements, new exercises or, or exercises in new ways. Start, start light, go easy and learn them before you push it because they're going to be a lot of new stuff that you probably haven't done. Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

The work capacity days, you might want to, you know, gauge based on like how you recover from that as well. So that's something that's a little more different and intense, but it's, it's also a lot of fun.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, I think you know what you're doing, so it'll be cool. I'd love to have you back on just afterwards to get, get your review.

[Caller/Listener]

That would be great. And you know what, I'm too old to be hurting myself, so I do always go into things until I learn the movements. So that sounds fantastic. Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it. I'll send it over to you.

[Caller/Listener]

All right. Thank you so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. I love it. Yeah, she's got a great attitude. This is one of the examples I give when I talk about how being fit and prioritizing health and fitness, how much you diverge from people in your age group as you continue to age. I mean, she's still, she's not old, but she's at the age now where, you know, what is she, 54? She said you put her next to a group of typical 54 year old women and it's like her peers.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I also want to highlight, she didn't start until she was 40.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So, you know, she 39 years old, just turning 40 when she started lifting weights.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So how much you can do later in your life too. So many people think you're at an age where it's like, oh, and you know, so she's 54 years old and I'm pretty sure she'd say, I'm in the best shape of my life at 54, which is pretty rad.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, one thing I noticed her, her hair looks so Healthy. This is it. Like good nutrition, good exercise, it's just, it's far beyond just muscle and body fat. It affects the whole body.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next color is Sam from Kentucky.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up Sam? What's up Sam?

[Justin Andrews]

Hey guys, how's it going?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good, good.

[Caller/Listener]

I just wanted to say thank you to you guys. Found you guys about six months ago. I listen to every episode now. You know I was on a call with, this is more of a, a follow up call. I was on a call with you a couple months ago. You coached me towards running maps power lift 15 and honestly it's been incredible. So for context I've been on Tirzepatide since last summer. I'm currently down from 340 pounds to 270 pounds. Currently around 35ish percent body fat. I attach a before and current picture for you guys. One of the biggest breakthroughs is you guys coach me towards increasing my calories. I was at about 2200 and you said get it over 2500 and 50. And I've been losing weight at really the same rate. And even from 340 to 270 I've actually gained lean body mass in that time.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hell yeah. If I recall when we had you on, we told you to reduce your volume and bump your calories because it kind of had gotten to a place where you're a bit, what we thought would like overtrained, a little burnt out and you weren't getting the results. So since doing power lift 15 and bumping your calories, you've gained muscle, gotten stronger I'm assuming.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah. So I like, I do barbell bench or dumbbell benching instead of regular benching just because I'm scared I'm going to fail and I don't have a spotter at the gym. And no worries, like I'm one of those guys who like likes to push my limits and get as close to failure as possible. So my dumbbell bench has gone from 90 pounds in each hand to 110.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow bro, that's great dude.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, so, and right now I'm, I'm on the overhead press part of it. But my squat got a lot stronger in the second month as well. So it's definitely been, it was an adjustment at first because like I used to play football and so for me like I just like to lift and so for me to like drastically decrease my volume almost had to like reset my brain that I would actually, I would actually get stronger with that much volume.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, kudos to you. That's really hard, especially for ex athletes. That's really hard to do that. They, you know, you, you want to revert back to the old, old football days every time you're in the gym, and it's tough, too. So the fact that you listened and followed the advice, I'm so glad you did because I'm sure now, now you're sold. Right. It's like you feel it, you see it.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's, what are your steps at every day? Are you, are you tracking that?

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, about 7,000 to 9,000 a day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller/Listener]

You know, I'm in Kentucky. Once it gets a little warmer, it'll get even higher because I can take walks outside.

[Sal DeStefano]

Very cool.

[Justin Andrews]

You're in a good place.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're in a good place.

[Justin Andrews]

You're in a nice sweet spot.

[Sal DeStefano]

So let me. Is your question. What's your question? Do you keep going? Do you cut? Do you go reverse? Is that what you're asking?

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

Essentially, like, I want to get to probably 15 to 20% body fat. My guess is I'll be between like 210 and 220. So, like, do I go all the way down there or do I, like, before I get there?

[Justin Andrews]

Reverse.

[Caller/Listener]

And then, because when I get there, I want to start, like, doing more bulking, cutting cycles to start really building muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, you're right. If you're at 270 now and you want to drop another 60 pounds or so and you're at 2500 calories now with Maps Power of 15, we want to continue to reverse diet. So the reason why I asked you about your steps is I think it would be very wise to go up another 2 to 300 calories, continue training the way you're training, and then maybe bump your steps a little bit. Maybe Instead of going 7 to 9, try to be around, you know, 9 to 10 consistently, and then keep going on that path until you get to a pretty high calorie place where you're like, wow, I'm eating a lot of food. And then you can cut from there. That'll give us a lot of Runway to get you down to 210. Because if you cut right now at 270, I mean, I could cut you down to 2,000 calories.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, no, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

But then you're gonna hit a plateau.

[Justin Andrews]

You're a big guy. You're a big guy. You're about where I would. There's two things. If I was coaching you and we would go like week by week is like, how you're feeling because I actually think you're in a very nice sweet spot. Yeah, you're probably in a place where you don't feel like you're starving, eating, and stuff like that. So you probably feel satisfied you're eating low enough calorie to where you're having this kind of beautiful exchange where you're still leaning out, you're even building muscle. Sometimes you can kind of hang out there so long as that kind of keeps happening. But you might plateau sooner or later. And then when you do, then what Sal is saying is that instead of what most people would do, which is cut, when you hit a plateau, I'd actually reverse you. I go, okay, let's keep pushing strength. Let's add a couple hundred calories and see if we can actually build some more muscle and get you up to closer to, like, 3,000 calories, and then hang at 3,000 calories for a little while, trying to build strength, and then go do a cut down to 25, and then watch you lean out again. So that would be probably the advice from where you're at right now. But if you're. If you're continuing to see strength gains, you're leaning out and. And also seeing some muscle being built a little bit, you're kind of in the Goldilocks zone. And so I'd kind of hang there for as long as you can. As long as you feel like you're. You're kind of. Every two weeks, you feel like, yeah, I'm definitely progressing. I feel better. I look better than what I did two weeks ago. Just give yourself, like, two weeks. Like, I don't think every week is a bit. I think it's a little bit too obsessed. Like, did I make progress this week? It's like, stay, stay, stay the course. And if every two weeks, you look back and go, like, I'm. I'm better version of me than I was two weeks ago, I'd ride that. I keep riding that for as long as we can before I start to really adjust anything. Yeah. And then that. What would be good to do then is maybe we switch the program simultaneously. So you have, like, go. Go to another Maps 15 program, maybe go to, like, the Strong or something else, maybe even anabolic by that time, because you'll be reverse. You'll be eating enough calories. You could probably handle maps. Anabolic. So good. Like, when. If. When we go to bump more calories and we're talking now we're talking 2,800 calories or so or more, we could probably go to Maps, Anabolic, and that different program. Change a little more added volume with the extra calories. I think you'll see yourself build some muscle. Muscle off of that. But again, hang tight while you're seeing great results. Right now, I think you're in a good spot. Okay.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah. Because that was sort of where I was getting at. Next is like, at what point can I bump up the volume? I know while I'm cutting, that's tough to do, but I. I eventually want to get to a place where, like, my body fat's in a good place, and then I want to just build as much muscle as I possibly can.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're on your way, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

You're doing it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing it because you're on your way.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you're doing it right now.

[Caller/Listener]

You're doing.

[Justin Andrews]

You really are. You're in this, you're in that. What we call Goldilocks. You build a little muscle, burn a little body fat. This nice place when we. We don't want to ramp the volume up or go to an Anabolic until you're eating at least 2800 calories. 20. I want. I'd want you 2800 or more calories before we start adding more. Right now, you're at a nice amount of volume for the amount of calories. You're doing great with the steps. I'm with Sal. When it gets a little bit nicer weather, start to pick them steps up and try and, you know, get up over 10,000 steps with what you're doing. That'll keep you leaning out just by you kind of increasing activity with what you're doing. And then eventually, we'll bump the calories and go to, like, maps. Do you have maps, Anabolic?

[Caller/Listener]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll send that over to you so you have that. So that's the. That's the move, right? Ride this wave until you start to slow down, bump the calories, and then go to Anabolic.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay. That's awesome. Thank you, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, man.

[Justin Andrews]

And keep us posted. It's a fun journey to watch for us.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

Thank you, guys. Yeah, definitely will.

[Justin Andrews]

Kicking ass, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Take it easy.

[Justin Andrews]

Congrats, brother.

[Sal DeStefano]

Keep it up. Thanks. Just for the recap.

[Justin Andrews]

That's cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

He increased his calories by a relatively significant amount and dropped the amount of training volume.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And built muscle got stronger and got leaner. Another one of those just so people understand.

[Justin Andrews]

That just doesn't science.

[Doug Egge]

Come on, science nerds.

[Sal DeStefano]

Where you at? It works, you guys. It works. You got to try it. It works. And watch what happens. And by the way, people on go, because he's on GLP1, people on GLP1s will plateau. This is what happens. They'll lose X amount when they'll plateau.

[Doug Egge]

The most common thing we saw, and

[Sal DeStefano]

then it's like, do I just eat even less? And then you feel terrible and it's like, no, no. Reverse dieting is real. If you do it right, you apply it with strength training. It gets things moving in the right direction.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Karen from New York.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Karen.

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing, Karen?

[Caller/Listener]

Hi, how are you?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good, we're good. How can we help you?

[Caller/Listener]

Yes, I had sent in an email. I've been watching your content now for a few months. And one of the things, I will be 60 in a few months and I now want to focus on gaining strength, working on my mobility, maintaining balance, being able to maintain balance.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right.

[Caller/Listener]

And so right now, for the first time in my adult life ever, I'm down to an ideal body weight. But I'd like to reduce the body fat percentage a little bit and gain some muscle. I'm not. So no longer chasing the scale.

Right. So wonderful.

Now we're at a point where I want to refocus on some other things which I've done over the years, many, many times. But I want to hone in now with some of the conditions as I'm getting older and do it safely and not get hurt.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's great. Karen, have you ever done traditional strength training before?

[Caller/Listener]

Yes, 10 years ago, I went back to school after losing about 127 pounds. So I do have my personal training certification in associates in Exercise Science. But unfortunately, over that time and with COVID setting in and getting older and menopause and thyroid disease and such like that, I was never able to keep my weight down. But I always love being in the gym and so I do have knowledge behind it. But again, there's so much information out there and with my particular situation of having a thyroid disorder and also having had bariatric surgery and I'm on a GLP1 now, it's like I need to hone in. It needs to be honed to get the most bang from my buck. Right. And the most beneficial at this time

[Sal DeStefano]

in my life, I totally get that. What, what's the longest? So by the way, your. Your. Your thyroid's now being treated with medication. So that's all balanced hormones balanced, I see in your emails.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, HRT is great. You know, all those things are, like really dialed in Now I have no more metabolic resistance I have or dysfunction. I'm not insulin resistant any longer.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you ever worked with a, like a trainer or coach for the strength training? Have you ever had anybody train you through that period of time or were you kind of doing it on your own?

[Caller/Listener]

I did years and years ago after my first husband had passed away, I decided to get focused and I was training with someone for about a year and it was a great experience and I enjoyed that very much. And then I was in the gym and just. But no, recently I have not worked with a trainer recently.

[Sal DeStefano]

The best thing you can do and what you're going to love, you're going to love how traditional strength training done properly, good programming with making sure of course you eat enough protein, all that stuff, how that's going to affect your body, the lean body mass gains. What you mentioned with mobility and balance, it's going to feel so incredible. But it's going to come from really traditional strength training and it's probably going to look something like two or three days a week now. That doesn't mean you're not active the other days. So, you know, walking and just, you know, you don't want to sit around, which I'm assuming you already have some activity and you're tracking steps and stuff like that. But nice traditional strength training where, which is appropriate. So we got to make sure we do the right exercises for you where you're seeing yourself gain strength. If you're getting stronger, you're. That you're definitely moving in the right direction and it's going to feel so good on your body. From your metabolic health to how your body actually feels, mobility, all those things. That's the, that's like the one. And I think you know that that's like the one piece that you, you're, you're, you're aiming for, which is great.

[Justin Andrews]

She's done. You see her, she, Doug just pulled up her numbers right here. You see she's deadlifting. You got assisted chin up, you got lap pull down row. Are those, are those your lifts and you're getting between 15 to 1900. 1900 calories is good. You're doing pretty damn good right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you, are those, are, those are current lifts, Karen, that you, you sent us, or was that a, like what you've done in the past?

[Caller/Listener]

No, no, no, those are current. My, actually my deadlift now I'm at like 115.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nice.

[Justin Andrews]

Got a girl.

[Caller/Listener]

And yeah, the other ones are pretty. They're pretty, they're Recent. They're recent numbers. My deadlift just went up a little bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's great. Okay, so how can we help you? Are you looking for more like programming advice or nutrition advice?

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, well, actually, both. I'm looking for some programming advice because, honestly, after I met my second husband, we've been married for six years and I now commute to work. It's different. When I was widowed for 14 years, I came and went in the gym and did what I wanted as I wanted. I ate when I wanted, didn't eat when I didn't want to, whatever it was. The responsibilities in my lifestyle is a little different now. So what I'm hoping to do is to. I need some programming that I can get in the gym two days a week and do it also once at home with other, you know, some other form formatting and. Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. And then also with having had the bariatric surgery and being on a GLP1, I mean, I gotta. I gotta fight to get 150, you know, 140. 150 grams.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

So I did have a question. Incorporating, like, one good dose of an EAA by itself once in a day could help to supplement that because it is hard for me to get. You know, I'm constantly. It's almost like years ago when I had issues of not being able to keep my weight down and food was like, food, food, food. Thought, thought, thought, const. You know, I don't want to be in that realm either all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

I would actually EAAs I would do three times a day. So that. Which is great. So it's great. You're already on that, thinking that way. Are you doing a shake already?

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, I usually end up doing a protein latte on my way in and the work in the morning. I make it myself.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, cool.

[Caller/Listener]

So that's hitting like 40 grams of protein. Just drinking on the way in. And then I'll get to work and I'll either bring with me some eggs and ground beef and some cheese, and I'll hit that. I try to hit like 70 to 90 grams before lunchtime only because it's hard for me.

[Justin Andrews]

Good job. No, you're doing great. Strategy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Would you be open to working with one of our coaches through this process? Because I think that you. You're in a really good place to have somebody work with you and iterate as you go along. Change the programming, nutrition as you go along.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, I'd like to. I'd like to look into that because I would I have one of the, you know, eight electrical bioimpedance scales that, you know. So I'm looking at other numbers besides just hopping on the scale.

[Justin Andrews]

No, you're doing really good. And based off of like your schedule and how we do two days in the gym, one day at home. Home, you'd be a great candidate for a trainer. Just kind of be modifying you kind of week to week as you're going and slowly messing with your macros and, and advising because you're in a good spot. You're doing a really good job right now and you're. And you're heading down the right path. So we could have someone call you, show you what that would look like and they'll set up all the programming, take care of all the stuff for you.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, yeah, that would be that. I would like to. I'd love to look into that. Yeah, that would be great.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, Karen, I'll have somebody call you today.

[Justin Andrews]

Doing a great job.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, great job, by the way.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, very cool. Yeah, great.

[Caller/Listener]

Well, I appreciate you taking my call and looking into this because I know you're going to be finding more and more people, I think as time is going by, GLP1s or having had surgery and there's a lot of information out there.

[Justin Andrews]

We just got off another call, just, we got done helping somebody who's been on one for a year and he had hit a plateau. He was a follow up call who just got back on and he's added all kinds of muscle and leaned out by reverse dieting with us. And so, so yeah, no, there, it's, there's a lot now. So you're doing great though. Excited to help you out.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, I look forward to it. And out of your programming, your maps programming and different things, what would you recommend?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, so off the top of my head, it would probably be something like Maps Anabolic. But since you're going to work with a coach, they're going to individualize.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they're going to individualize it for you because of like how your schedule is. So it'll look like it actually look like a modified program. It'll look like anabolic mixed with something that you do at home.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then as you go along, through coaching you, they'll be able to modify it as you go along because you're gonna have that coach with you the whole time.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, that's great. I look forward to the call.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you. All right, Karen, thanks.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, good for her.

[Justin Andrews]

She's doing really good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, good for her.

[Justin Andrews]

I heard some very surprised. With the GLP1 surgery, she's able to still eat that much protein.

[Doug Egge]

I know she's.

[Sal DeStefano]

I wonder. Is rare. I didn't even think of that. But I wonder how many bariatric patients also now are using a GLP1 on top of it. I wonder.

[Justin Andrews]

I bet it's. I mean, what was the statistics. Do you remember what it was taking business. What was the statistics on bariatric patients that end up. End up just like, going. End up going. Putting the weight back on still?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know what the number is, but some of them do that. Oh. It's also a very. I mean, intrusive procedure, I believe. I think the bariatric surgery numbers has dropped considerably since GLP1s. Yeah. Because it's like, try this instead of

[Doug Egge]

weighing the options going in.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it's probably crash.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I'm sure she did that a long time ago. And then now is. And then one's probably helped her way more than that ever helped her. But, I mean, kudos to her to be deadlifting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Going after her protein like that, to be able to be able to eat. Eating 15 to 1900 calories on a geopilot and with bariatric surgery is impressive.

[Doug Egge]

So her whole strategy was on point.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So cool. I'm excited. I hope she. I. I hope she ends up with one of our trainers so we can see her progress through this. Our next caller is Daniel from North Carolina.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, man?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing, Daniel?

[Doug Egge]

Daniel.

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, how's it going, guys? Pretty cool to talk to you. I've been listening for about three years, but I'm one of those weirdos that when I discovered Mind Pump, I actually started all the way back at the beginning. Listen through an order an average of like three to five episodes a day. So I feel like I know you guys already. I'm still not even caught up. But, you know, once I feel. Once I get caught up, I feel like, you know, it'll be kind of sad because I won't have three to five to listen to every day, but.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you gotten to Justin?

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, not yet.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you get really brief?

[Sal DeStefano]

It was really brief. Like episode 1000.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, I'm some. I'm somewhere around, like, 2100, something like that. So I don't even know what you guys are talking about in the last few episodes.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. With Doug. Virginity. I remember that.

[Doug Egge]

I remember that.

[Sal DeStefano]

So how can we help you, man?

[Justin Andrews]

Day to remember.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, so, yeah, so. So I'm 30 years old. I've been training consistently for about six years now. I was overweight most of my life and actually I'm one of those guys that the pandemic was one of the best things that ever happened to my fitness. I've been able to fall in love with fitness, with my fitness journey. I've maintained a healthy fitness level the past several years. So when I originally emailed, I had my first child on the way. But I have since become a dad in the last month. She's three weeks old as of yesterday, so. All right, but. So I. I own and operate a landscaping company. So I'm in the off season now. My schedule is a lot more open, I'm a lot more sedentary. But during the season from about March to October, I'm incredibly active. Some days 30 to 35,000 steps, but on average close to about 20,000. But with the baby on the way, I decided to go all out on my training and nutrition. I was pretty neurotic with both of them for about a month and a half at the start of the year before my daughter came along. Long term, I really want to get in the best shape of my life just to see what I can do. And of course also set an impossible standard for my daughter for any future boyfriends, husbands, that kind of thing, of course. But I'm also noticing some left to right imbalances in my physique and in my movements that I'm sure need to be addressed. I'm actually currently running Map Symmetry. I actually just finished a phase three workout right before I jumped on this call and I previously run Anabolic Performance Aesthetic and I started split and the volume was fine. But I noticed that once I really got going, that's when I could tell I had the imbalances. So I actually stopped it and jumped over to Symmetry.

[Justin Andrews]

Good job.

[Caller/Listener]

And I've been strongly considering something like MAP Strong because I've actually never in my Life focused on 100% strength focused because, you know, I was always the overweight guy and it sounds like it'd be great. But I mostly, especially with the newborn, I work out from my home gym. So I'm not sure if that program is feasible with my current equipment. But also with a newborn, being around, you know how it is, like sometimes pretty sleep deprived. But I've actually, we've come into a pretty good rhythm. So I've got kind of this rule for myself. I get seven, eight hours of sleep, then I'll train pretty hard. But let's see. So one of the things I would like to do if my sleep stays on is, you know, thinking finish, symmetry, anabolic advance, maybe split. But I was kind of curious what you guys think would be a good. A good way to go with a newborn, but also trying to want to be. Feel like I should probably go strength focused because it's never been something that I've really focused on. My nutrition was very dial, but when my daughter was born, the people in our church, I'm very grateful, they brought us a bunch of food and stuff. We didn't really have a whole lot of time to cook. So my nutrition kind of went out the window the first three weeks of my daughter's life. So I'm trying to figure out how to get my nutrition back on track with very little time to meal prep. And then also, I know I've got conflicting goals. I've got a newborn. I want to be in the best shape of my life. I want to focus on strength. But, you know, I know that you guys say you can't always have your cake and eat it too. So I'm just kind of, just kind of curious. I don't really know which way to go from here. I got a lot of moving parts to think about.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So if your sleep is good, it's perfectly fine to focus on strength. And the program that would be strength focused purely would be Power lift. So strong is strong man inspired. So what you're going to get in strong is strength focus, but you're also going to get some stamina and agility in there a little bit because strongman competitions require some of that. It's actually one of my favorite programs, by the way. You could totally follow it with a home gym.

[Justin Andrews]

I have a.

[Doug Egge]

You might want to do a 15 version.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I have a curveball. I like maps 15 power lift for you. Take the extra time that you're not having to be working out for a full hour, hour and a half, prep your meals, and that's what's going to keep you dialed. You're going to get strong doing maps 15 power lift.

[Sal DeStefano]

Real strong.

[Justin Andrews]

You'll get real strong doing that and your nutrition becomes the next most important thing. Making sure you're staying dialed and dedicate that extra time. Because you're not spending an hour in the gym working out. Now you're only spending about 20 minutes or so, maybe 25. Spend that extra 20 minutes getting those meals prepped and really making sure you're dialed on the nutrition part. And. And that also saves you too, because you know the inevitable is going to happen as A dad, you're going to have some rougher nights and sleep. That's a more appropriate amount of volume. Trying to consider that. And so I, I like that. And hey, if you have days where you get great rest, food's all prepped, you're trained, and you want to do more, go for a walk, you know, move, move or do mobility, do some other stuff, activity. But that amount of that volume focused on strength, eating. Well, I, I think would serve you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Great suggestion for sure. Yeah, that's perfect.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally agree.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay. And I was so. And I mean, that's awesome. And like I said, I'm catching up on episodes. So I'd heard that you had some, like 15 versions. A lot of your other programs. I wasn't sure what you had. Yeah, before my daughter was born, I was so my maintenance calories is around 3,000 ish. I'm 5 9, about 175, and 15 to 16% body fat. I was running right before she was born. I was running right around. I was doing symmetry, running right around. Maintenance with maybe just a slight. Just a slight deficit because I would really still like to lean out. But I didn't want to go too hard. And part of me was feeling like if I run the strength program or the power lift program, I don't know if I should try to push calories. I haven't really counted the last. The last three weeks since she's been born. I don't know if you'd suggest pushing calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think so. I think if your calories, if you keep them consistent, the reduction in volume, Volume should take care of that. Now you could bump the calories and make it happen a little faster, but I don't think you need to bump much. You can go up a couple hundred calories.

[Justin Andrews]

You're in a good place. Three thousand, you know, your size is a good amount of calories. So you're in a good place.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So you could go up 100 or 200 calories or keep it the same, but max 15, power lift, the reduced volume. I think we'll handle that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay. All right. That's awesome. And then one more question I had in there. So obviously my wife is postpartum right now, and she. And she, she came to me. I want to preface this with this. She came to me and said that once she was done and recovered and cleared by the doctor, she wanted me to help get her back. I'm obviously not a personal trainer, but I've learned a lot from you guys. Listen to over 2,000 episodes. So just if I. If you guys have just some basic guidelines, ways to handle certain things. Bringing her back from postpartum.

[Sal DeStefano]

Map starter. Yeah, that's the program. Nothing more than that. Yeah, nothing more than that. Map starter. And that's it. And be very kind, give your wife a lot of grace and help her give grace to herself because she might get frustrated with the whole process. But that's the perfect program. Postpartum.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, sounds good. I appreciate it. Just one more thing. I appreciate all that you guys do. It's been super life changing for me. Sal, I love what you're doing with call to his kingdom. It's been a really cool thing to follow on the regular basis. I'm actually. I sent you a message a few weeks ago ago, a prayer request for my daughter and I appreciate you responding. That really meant a lot and. But yeah, just keep everything up that you're doing. I love it. And by the way, Sal, if you're looking for some Christian based heavier workout music, I don't know if you've ever tried skillet before, but you should check

[Sal DeStefano]

out skillet Justin recommended.

[Caller/Listener]

It's my go to.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

Skillet, Skillet, my go to. They. They were actually here in town where I'm at a few months ago, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome.

[Caller/Listener]

Real good stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you. Thanks, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you, bro.

[Caller/Listener]

Yep. So much. Thank you guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Brother, that's great. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I think he was still. His pre workout was still in his system. When he's on fire, he's on fire.

[Doug Egge]

Just had that lifted caffeine.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I mean great suggestion, Adam. I mean. Yeah, he wouldn't even. I don't even think you need to bump calories because no reduced falls.

[Justin Andrews]

He's in a good. He's in a perfect place.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude, he's doing a good job, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

3, 000 calories.

[Doug Egge]

He does listen.

[Justin Andrews]

That's for sure. Yeah, I don't. I definitely think that. Yeah, I think. I think it's a safer bet. I mean he could more but you know, you gotta. You got a three week old.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, I remember how cocky I was the first 10 days. Remember?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's easy.

[Justin Andrews]

It's hard when they just are bored, bro. They still think they're in the womb. They just sleep for like the first week. You know what I'm saying? And then they wake up, you know, like. So he's still got that coming.

[Caller/Listener]

So.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think Maps 15 protocol is better. Protocol.

[Sal DeStefano]

Love it. If you like Mind Pump. Come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for letting me.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're lost. It feels like we're going round in circles. I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road.

[Justin Andrews]

Nah, I'm just kidding.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Let me get my phone out.

[Sal DeStefano]

How is there signal out here?

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together. So the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city. Same. Saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.

[Sal DeStefano]

Actually, can you pull up the way to a T Mobile store?

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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