2817: Should You Bulk or Cut First? (Most People Get This Wrong)

Summary

---

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2817: Should You Bulk or Cut First? (Most People Get This Wrong)

Release Date: March 19, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew dives deep into a foundational question many fitness enthusiasts—and especially beginners—have: "Should I bulk, cut, or just try to ‘recomp’ my body?" The hosts challenge widespread fitness myths, focusing on why most people get their starting point wrong, and break down the science and strategy behind optimizing metabolic health for sustainable fat loss and muscle gain.

The hosts emphasize the importance of metabolic “runway,” why building muscle should usually precede drastic cuts, and explain when (and how) to use bulking, cutting, or recomposition. Expect candid, science-backed advice served with their signature wit.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Bulk, Cut, and Recomposition (Recomp)

• Bulking: Process focused on mass gain, especially muscle, by eating at a calorie surplus and lifting weights.
  • “Bulking is the process of trying to gain. Typically it’s muscle...Usually people don’t go into bulk to gain body fat.” — Sal [03:04]
• Cutting: Reducing calorie intake to lose body fat.
  • “A cut is the attempt or process at which you’re trying to get leaner.” — Sal [03:04]
• Recomposition (Recomp): Simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss at caloric maintenance—much more subtle, often slower progress.
  • “Recomp...means change your body composition. I want to get leaner and build some muscle.” — Sal [03:04]
  • Also described as maintaining, or staying in the “Goldilocks zone.” — Adam [03:29]

---

2. Why Most People Should Begin with a Bulk (or a Metabolism-Building Phase)

• Adam’s Shift in Philosophy:
  • For almost everyone, starting by building up calories/metabolism is optimal—even for those with a high amount of fat to lose.
  • “I would say almost always, I’m gonna bulk somebody out the gates.” — Adam [02:04]
• Nuance for Overweight Individuals:
  • Even someone 100 lbs overweight should start by focusing on eating quality whole foods, increasing protein, and building muscle, not by slashing calories.
  • “I would say yes, I would bulk them first...but there’s some nuance to explaining what that looks like.” — Adam [02:25]

Understanding Runway

• Before you even consider cutting, assess if there's enough metabolic “runway.”
  • If your calories are already low, cutting further is unsustainable and quickly leads to plateaus.
  • “If you go below [about 1200 calories], you’re feeling really bad, you’re not getting adequate nutrients...not sustainable.” — Sal [04:31]

---

3. The Importance of Building Metabolic Health Before Cutting

• Real Example:
  • Female caller, 5’11”, 167 lbs, 1,600 calories/day, very active—not enough calories to cut from safely.
  • “There’s no way I’m taking that person on a cut from...1,600 calories...No way.” — Adam [05:25]
• Why Bulk First?
  • Lifting, whole foods, and higher protein build muscle and allow your metabolism to handle more food, making future fat loss easier and more sustainable.
  • “The lower your calories get, the more likely it is that your body will try to pare muscle down to adapt.” — Sal [08:12]
  • “Giving ourselves runway with a hotter metabolism, which means more muscle...is the way to go.” — Sal [09:46]

---

4. Problems with the Traditional “Cut First” Mentality

• Short-term vs. Long-term Success:
  • Cutting immediately might produce quick weight loss, but almost always leads to rebounds once motivation fades.
  • “The problem isn’t fat loss...it’s easier to lose the weight than it is to keep it off...we need to look at this problem and really consider the keeping the weight off part.” — Sal [09:47]
  • “Almost all of them gain the weight back...That’s the thing we need to focus on the most.” — Sal [10:25]

Psychological Challenge

• Bulk first: Harder psychologically (“Delayed gratification”), as scale may move slowly or even up at first.
• Cut first: Harder physiologically—extreme calorie restriction isn’t sustainable, leads to plateaus and eventual burnout.
  • “Initially with that motivated state of mind, it is going to feel frustrating.” — Sal [15:53]
  • “What we’re saying is easier...it’s an easier strategy.” — Sal [14:36]

---

5. The ‘Recomp’ Conundrum: Who Should Use It?

• Recomping is “black belt” dieting: requires high discipline, pure whole foods, patience, and a good ability to listen to one’s body.
  • “Recomping...is, I think, the healthiest, the best approach, but also black belt level... if you got the discipline to know what you’re doing is right.” — Adam [19:09]
  • Appetite becomes a trustworthy signal only when eating whole unprocessed foods.
  • “Your appetite will actually tell you. But you have to eat in a way to where your appetite signals are accurate.” — Sal [19:28]

Movement on the Scale

• Scale may not move much at all for a long time during true recomp.
  • “There’s little to no movement on the scale... at all...if you’re doing a real true recomp.” — Adam [21:32]
• Recomp isn’t suited for people with a lot of fat to lose; they’ll see faster progress with a bulk/reverse diet then a cut.
  • “You can actually show movement faster with a reverse diet first and then the cut.” — Sal [21:59]

---

6. The Right Way to Bulk or Reverse Diet

• A bulk shouldn’t be an excuse to eat junk or vastly exceed maintenance.
• “It doesn’t take a lot to bulk...100 to 200 calories is enough to be considered in a bulk.” — Adam [24:11]
• “Bulk doesn’t mean eat garbage.” — Sal [24:36]
• Dirty bulking (no limits/eating anything) is not advocated: leads to excessive fat gain.
  • “Dirty bulk...just means you get really fat.” — Sal [25:00]

---

7. Case Study: Raising Metabolism and Results

• Story of a female client running 20–30 miles weekly, eating only 1,700–1,800 calories, feeling “stuck.”
  • Gradually reduced running, focused on strength, reverse dieted up to ~2,700 calories, improved strength, dropped body fat, looked/ felt far better.
  • “She’s not running 20–30 miles a week, I’ve got her up to almost 3,000 calories... she dropped body fat and built muscle...way easier to maintain.” — Sal [26:39]

---

8. Science vs. Practice

• Lab studies on “muscle burns X more calories than fat” are oversimplified.
  • “There’s so many more factors that go into what it takes to build that muscle, what it takes to maintain that muscle.” — Adam [27:04]
• Huge real-world differences between a strong, muscular metabolism and a starved cardio-bunny metabolism.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adam on shifting philosophy:
  “I would say almost always, I’m gonna bulk somebody out the gates.” [02:04]
• Sal on metabolic “runway”:
  “Do I have runway to go on an effective cut?...If you go below [about 1200 calories], you’re feeling really bad...not sustainable.” [04:31]
• Adam’s coaching evolution:
  “As a new trainer...I’d cut their calories down and move them more...And that almost always, eventually failed. Even the ones that I got to the goal failed later on. They put the weight back on.” [12:45]
• On recomp being “black belt” status:
  “Recomping is, I think, the healthiest, the best approach, but also black belt level in my opinion.” — Adam [19:09]
• Sal on bulk basics:
  “Bulk doesn’t mean eat garbage.” [24:36]
• On lab science oversimplifying metabolism:
  “The metabolism knows how to become more and less efficient...it’s just like, how arrogant sometimes we are to be like, this is what it is...I can tell you this: I’ve trained hundreds of people that I...this doesn’t add up.” — Adam [27:32]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:04 — Bulking, cutting, and recomp explained
• 05:25 — Why you shouldn’t cut calories if you’re already eating little
• 06:31 — The strategy with obese/overweight clients
• 09:46 — The long-term importance of metabolic “runway” vs. just losing fat
• 14:35 — The psychological challenge of building up calories first before a cut
• 18:06 — What true recomp looks and feels like
• 19:09 — Why recomp is “black belt” status
• 24:11 — What a real bulk should look like; avoiding “dirty bulks”
• 26:39 — Case study on reverse dieting, activity reduction, and massive improvement
• 27:32 — The complexity (and mystery) of metabolism in the real world

---

Practical Recommendations

• Most people, unless consuming a lot of food and already muscular, should begin with a metabolic-boosting phase (bulk or reverse diet), focusing on whole foods and increasing protein and strength.
• Cutting should only be attempted when there’s sufficient metabolic “runway”—otherwise, the process is miserable and unsustainable.
• Recomping is generally best for advanced/very patient individuals who are disciplined, eat no processed foods, and are primarily focused on slow, sustainable change.
• Avoid “dirty bulks”—the calorie surplus should be modest, and food quality matters.

---

Resources Mentioned

• Reverse Dieting 101 Guide: 50% off (use code diet50 at mindpumpreversediet.com)

---

This summary captures the practical, honest, and evidence-driven approach of Mind Pump to one of fitness’s most misunderstood dilemmas, and offers value even to those who’ve never heard the episode.

Transcript

[A]

Everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T Mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now T Mobile is available in a US cellular store near you bigger network. The combination of T Mobile and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage savings versus comparable Verizon plans plus the costs of options, benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.

[B]

If you want to p and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[A]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts

[B]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews,

[C]

you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode. Should you bulk, should you cut or should you do a recomp right now? How do you know which one you should start with? Which one is right for for you? By the way, we have a reverse dieting 101 guide. It breaks it down for you so you know when to add the calories, how fast to add the calories to do an effective reverse diet to set you up for an effective cut and it's 50% off. It's $23.50. You can go to mindpumpreverse diet.com, use the code diet50. This episode is brought to you by a sponsor, organifi. They make organic supplements for health, wellness, fitness, muscle gain and fat loss. And you can get 20% off. Go to Organifi.com mindpump. That's O R G-A-N-I F I.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump for the 20% off discount. All right, real quick.

[D]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[C]

All right, you're wondering if you should go on a bulk a cut or just recomp your body. How do you know when it's the right time? That's what we're talking about in today's episode. Let's do it.

[E]

I've shifted my opinion on this over years and I would I would say almost always. Just because I believe there's always an exception to the rule. But almost always I'm gonna bulk somebody out the gates.

[C]

Almost always it leads to the other ones. Yeah, yeah.

[E]

Well, so even like, like, even if you like, imagine the person who, someone thinks that like what they think is probably the exception of the rule, you're a hundred pounds overweight, you haven't worked out, you're eating McDonald's, also that it's like you can't possibly be telling me you're gonna bulk that person. Yeah, and I, I would say yes, but then I think there's, there's some nuance to explaining what that looks like.

[C]

Totally.

[E]

But I, I would say yes, I would, I would bulk them first.

[D]

Before we go further though, for us non like bodybuilder types, explain to me the difference of, of recomp, you know, between the bulk and cut.

[C]

All right, so let's, we'll, we'll start with, we'll explain the first two. And they get to recomp. So bulking is the process of trying to gain. Typically it's muscle. Usually people don't go into bulk to gain body fat, but it's try to gain a cut is the attempt or process at which you're trying to get leaner and recomposition is maintenance. Well, you're trying to, you're trying to recomp, meaning change your body composition. I want to get leaner and build some muscle.

[E]

Right, right. Which would be like the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that would be a good way to say it too is Goldilocks zone or you know, stay at maintenance.

[C]

Too hot, too cold.

[D]

I thought it was like, whenever I heard that term, I thought you were referring to a reverse dieting or something.

[C]

Well, reverse dieting, which we'll get to, would be a bulk. Right. This is where you're trying to eat more to try to build. But so here's where people typically start. Should you bulk cut or re or recom? It depends on your goal is what people would say. You're trying to lose weight, then you go to cut, you're trying to gain weight, you want to bulk recomp. That's just you want to kind of get leaner and build muscle at the same time. Not quite. Not quite. That's not a determining or the determining factor that you should consider on whether or not you should be on a bulk cut or recombit. I think there's a few other things you need to consider, and I think this is kind of where you're going Adam. Which is, okay, you want to lose weight, but do you have Runway to go on an effective cut? Right. In other words, is your. Is your basal metabolic rate, or is your metabolism, to put it loosely, is it burning hot enough to where I can bring your calories down, but I have room to go down to take you to a place that you can sustain. In other words, just to paint the picture, you're overweight, and on average, every day, you're inactive. But on average, every day, you're eating 2000 calories a day, and you want to lose 50 pounds. Well, in order to lose 50 pounds, you might think, oh, just go down to 1500 calories or 1200 calories. You could do that, but you would plateau very quickly. You might get 10 or 15 pounds off your body, but now you're left with, you know, another 20 pounds or something to go. And now you're at 1200 calories. And you. You can. You can't really go down from there. You go below that, and you're feeling really bad. You're not getting adequate nutrients. Proteins and fats aren't adequate, and it's not sustainable. So that's one of the big things to consider is, do I have Runway?

[E]

We just had a live caller this morning. Female, weighed 167 pounds. And she wants. And was 5 11. Yeah. Was complaining of, like, carrying a body fat in her stomach area. We talked. We must talk to her about a bunch of other things for a good 10 minutes before I finally asked her, do you track calories? And, you know, where are you at right now? And, you know, I wish I would ask her that the first two minutes because we would have got to the conclusion way faster. She's eating 1600 calories. Like, there's no way I'm taking that person on a cut from, you know, 5, 11, 167 pounds.

[D]

She'd be miserable.

[C]

And she was active.

[E]

Yeah. And active won't move the needle. Yeah. Training moves a lot of steps. Works a. A physical job. Yeah. No way. Like, and. And that's more common than not where people have. Have kind of plateaued. This is why my argument to the bulk. Now, what it kind of looks like, to be honest, it does kind of look like a recomp. Moving into a bulk. What do I mean by that? So let's take the example of the obese person who's over a hundred pounds of. Of weight over overweight. Right.

[C]

And.

[E]

And let's just. They're sedentary. They have never, never worked out or haven't worked out in a very long time. Eat fast food, predominantly junk food, stuff like that. What it, what I tell them is like this, we're going to eat whole foods. I want you to hit a 180, 200 grams of protein or whatever like that a day. And, and so naturally what happens is that person who was eating fast food and stuff, that they might have been at high, high calories, like they might have been at really high calories, and that's what got them there. And I tell them to eat Whole Foods, 200 grams, and I tell them to eat as much as possible. And they think it's, they feel like it's a bulk.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

But it actually controls the calories a little bit. And so it actually ends up being

[C]

more like a higher protein bill.

[E]

Right, right. It ends up being kind of a recompense. But then what I, what I quickly want to do is as soon as we start building muscle and then their appetite starts to increase, I want to feed it.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

You know, and even though that person needs to lose 100 pounds, the signal that I'm looking for first is, oh, my God, this is too much. Which is normally this happens. This happens all the time with someone like this that's that overweight. And then you get them to change their diet to, from process junk food to whole foods, they think the food is just way too much and they can't fathom how's this possible. I'm over £100 and I can't eat all the food you're telling me to eat. It's like, yeah, it's because you're eating whole foods and you're eating protein first. And so I don't want to just stay there. I could just stay there and they'll probably just keep losing weight. But I actually want to build meta. I want to build their. I want to build muscle, I want to build metabolism. I want to build that Runway you're talking about because maybe what that looks like at first is like 2, 800 or 3,000 calories on this 300 pound person. And I actually prefer them to be more like 35, 4,000 calories. And then we have, we need a

[C]

lot of room to lose £100.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

You need a lot of room to go downward and calories to cause. And by the way, if you get your calories, the lower your calories get, the more likely it is that your body will try to pare muscle down to adapt. Right. So, you know, if you go from 4,000 to 3,000 calories, it's a thousand calorie drop. And let's say your body's burning 4,000. Say, like you got a really humming metabolism. You're losing body fat at 3,000 calories. And if you're strength training, muscle loss may be minimal or not at all. But you take someone who's at 2000 calories and you cut them down to 1000 calories. Same calorie deficit, same type of individual wants to lose weight. Those calories are so low, the body is really trying to adapt quickly to it and it's paring muscle down. And so the odds of muscle loss and a slower metabolism are much higher. So the easy answer here for a bulk would be, I want to build muscle. There really is no someone comes to me that wants to build muscle. We're going to put you on a bulk. We're going to try and eat more calories than we're burning. We're going to try to eat a high protein diet and lift weights. That's an easy answer right out the gates. Like, like there's almost no situation. I mean, I could, I could pull some. If I really think hard, where someone comes to me says, I want to build muscle, and I say, we're not going to put you on a bowl.

[D]

Yeah, we're going to go cut first.

[C]

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Maybe gut health issues or something else, but somebody's coming who wants to build muscle. Easy bulk. Easy bulk. Everybody else. I would agree with you, Adam. I think that the direction to go, even if you want to cut, is to move in a direction that boosts metabolic rate. To set us up.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

For sustainable fat loss. Because the problem isn't fat loss. I know that's what everybody thinks the challenge is when they want to lose weight. Like, the hard thing is to lose weight, but if you actually look at the data, it's easier to lose the weight than it is to keep it off. The keeping it off part's actually the problem we want to look at. In other words, we need to look at this problem and really consider the keeping the weight off part of the problem and make that the most important thing we consider. Because that's the issue. That's the challenge. The weight loss isn't the challenge. It's challenging. But when you look at the data, there's a percentage of people that lose the weight. There's actually a decent percent of people that lose weight, a significant amount of weight when they really put their mind to it. But the majority of them gain it back. The vast majority of them gain it back. And so if you look at all the people that attempt, almost all of them gain the weight back. A small percentage lose the weight, but almost all of the ones that lose the weight gain it back. So that's the thing we need to focus on the most. And so giving us, ourselves, Runway with a hotter metabolism, which means more muscle, which gives us more flexibility and more calories in the cut is the way to go. Because to put it simply, is it easier for somebody to lose weight eating 2500 calories or eating 1500 calories? Right. Obviously the 2500 calories. You don't feel like you're starving yourself all day long.

[E]

It's a way better strategy if you go the other way, then that person almost always, even if you're highly motivated at first to restrict and lower calories for this cut, um, the inevitable happens where you. You start. That slows down. The process of you losing weight starts to slow down, and then the. And the cravings are going like crazy. And you've been just white knuckling it for weeks on weeks, and maybe you're down five or seven pounds, but it's like, it's now it's moving really slow. It is so hard for that client versus the client who I flipped the. The model on its head, and I'm like, hey, I want you to eat. You're hungry. I want you to eat. Again, just choose these types of foods, and let's really focus on getting stronger. Let's not worry about the scale per se right now. Don't worry. I know you came in. The goal is to lose 100 pounds. We're gonna get there, I promise you. But let me, let me build that metabolism up. Let's build some muscle on your body, and it'll make that process so much easier when you do it this way. It's crazy how much easier it is for the client to adhere to that long term. This is, in fact, I like this conversation because there's controversy in our space around it, and there's typically controversy in the. The newer, young, educated trainer who's just gone through their courses certification and is reading just the science, very familiar with what law thermodynamics looks like and that calories in versus calorie out. And that's exactly how I thought as a trainer when I first started was like, oh, this really overweight person is eating too many calories. I'm gonna cut their calories down and I'm gonna move them more. That's the law of thermodynamics. And that will lose weight. And it would lose weight initially. And then we get to a point where that slows down. So what do I do? Ramp up the intensity or ramp up their movement more? Cut their calories some more. And then eventually this person is eating 1900 calories, training three to five days a week strength and doing cardio outside of that, and they're just like, feel like they can't eat anything outside of the perfect diet that I've given them. And that almost always, eventually failed. Even the ones that I got to the goal failed. Later on, they put the weight back on. And so it's just. It's a failing strategy. Although that's what we're taught the qu.

[C]

The. So someone might be listening and thinking, well, what if I just cut first and then do what you're saying? Right. What if I just. Because I want to lose this weight and I get it, I get it, I get the urgency. You finally got the motivation. You've been dealing with this for a while, right. You didn't gain 60 pounds overnight. It took a little bit of time and you've thought about it a lot over the last however many years, and now you're finally motivated enough to really do something about it. And so you're like, look, they want to channel that. I want to get the weight off. Like I finally made to do something about it, you guys. Why don't I just lose the weight doing it? The what you're saying the wrong way, which is just, I'm just going to eat way less because I feel motivated, work my way back, and I'm just going to work out. And when I lose the weight, then I'll do what you're saying. Then I'll do this slow increase of calories and I'll try to build my. I gotta get the weight off first. I gotta get the weight off first. Well, I'm here to tell you, first of all, that is a strategy. So I'm not going to say that's not a strategy. That is a strategy. But it's harder. It's actually harder than what we're saying. It's way harder. What we're saying is easier. It's an easier strategy. Now, the. The challenge with what we're saying is the fear.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Around it.

[E]

Like the psychological challenge total. Like, okay, one's a really physical challenge. Physiological challenge. Cutting calories really low and moving a ton physiologically and psychologically. And psychologically is difficult.

[C]

Yeah. Initially it doesn't feel that way, but it'll Be.

[E]

The other one isn't as hard physically, but it's. It's definitely as challenging psychologically.

[C]

It is initially. So initially, what you're going to find with the first approach, which is just. Just cut and then I'll worry about building later, is initially because you're motivated. It actually feels great. That's like, I'm doing this. I'm eating my, whatever, chicken breast and rice or my paleo diet, whatever the heck you're doing, white knuckling it or my. My shakes. And initially you're losing weight. 10 pounds, 15 pounds. Let's go. Let's keep going. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna get to that £60 and then I'm gonna reverse and I'm not gonna worry about that. And then at some point months later, after you've plateaued, because you will when you're frustrated, you're like, oh, my God, I lost the first. I gotta lose 60 pounds. The first 25. You know, I did it. Now I'm like stuck here. Like, what's going on? I'm not eating much. Everybody, I'm working out like crazy. Motivation fades, because it will, and then you're done. You're over. And by the way, this is probably what you've done before. You've probably followed this, the rebound, the yo yoing. That's right.

[D]

This is where all that kind of tends to happen.

[C]

And you know this because you know you've done it. You've done this two or three or five times in the past over the course of however long you've, you know, ever tried to lose weight. So it's not going to work again. I hate to break it to you. And it's actually harder because it doesn't work. What we're saying initially is hard because you're telling me that I'm just going to eat high protein and feed myself and lift weights and not worry about the scale. And initially, with that motivated state of mind, it is going to feel frustrating. Okay. Because you might step on the scale.

[D]

It's more delayed gratification.

[C]

That's right. And you might see that, okay, my weight's not going down. Maybe even went up a couple pounds.

[E]

Okay.

[C]

I am stronger in the gym. That part's kind of cool. Like, I'm lifting more weight, but, God, I want to get the 60 pounds off you guys. Like, what's going on here? And then you're eating a little more. You're like, okay, am I ready to lose? And you know, you got one of us as your coach. Like, no, no, we're going to go up in calories again. Let's feed more muscle. And you're like, what? I don't want to do that. But you follow it, and you follow along. And after three or four months, you're now consuming, you know, 3,000 calories a day, 3,200 calories a day. You've built great strength. Your body's got different shape to it. And then you come to us and you're like, all right, can I do it now? And we're like, let's do it. Let's cut now. And then we cut. And here's what happens. Fat falls off your body. Suddenly you burn body fat. The plateaus aren't as hard. You're doing less work. And then when you do plateau, you've got more Runway to cut again, and you end up in this much more sustainable place. Now, what's. What's interesting about the recompense, because people are like, well, what if I just want to recomp? Right? I want to do this kind of slower. Recomp is actually hard, but also easy. What I mean by hard, it's hard to be in that perfect. Lose fat, build muscle. Lose fat, build muscle. But it's actually. The process actually looks like this. Eat your target body weight and protein only. Eat whole foods. Eat when you're hungry, and lift weights. And then what happens is your appetite dictates the calories. And then it kind of looks like this. I bulk a little. I cut a little. I bulk a little. Without you even thinking about it. Bulk cut, bulk cut, bulk cut. And then the body slowly recomping takes longer. Yeah, Slowly changes over time.

[D]

That timeline.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

I just gotta stretch it out.

[E]

I mean, I. I personally like recomping, but I. I think the person who. And this is why I said 90 plus percent or whatever, I would. I would almost always go to a bulk first is just because it's an easier thing to focus on with somebody. Recomping takes a lot. Because here's what comes up when you're in a. When you're teetering back. Because here's. When you're in a recomp. What it really means is that you're trying to hover around maintenance, which. There's no such thing as maintenance there. It means that there's periods of time when you're in a slight surplus. There's periods of time when you're in a slight deficit, which is this small undulation. Sometimes your body's building a tiny bit of muscle. Sometimes it's burning it and so it's these, these and what sometimes that looks like and why it's tough, I think for that person is it doesn't always translate into getting stronger in the gym. Sometimes you don't feel that much stronger because maybe at that period, no dramatic changes. Yeah, there's no dramatic shifts anywhere. The scale typically stays right about the same. And so that really tends to. You're also too. Glycogen isn't always filled all the way up in the body. So your muscle bellies aren't always filled all the way up and you don't look like. So recomping is, you know, is I think the healthiest, the best approach, but also black belt level in my opinion. Dieting for somebody, if you got discipline to know what you're doing is right.

[C]

That's right.

[E]

And wait and just wait and just know it'll that that takes a lot of discipline.

[C]

Now here's how that works. Because someone's like, well, how do I know I'm eating the right amount? Like if I'm re comping, how do I know your appetite? This, you know, it's gonna sound crazy because you're like, my appetites what got me here in the first place. But your appetite will actually tell you. But you have to eat in a way to where your appetite signals are accurate. Right. Okay. So you can't eat this. Recomp Diet in This way is a 0. 0 Processed Food diet, zero cravings. There is no processed food in your diet. It's all 100% whole natural foods. And you're eating every day consistently your target body weight in protein from whole natural foods. You're minimizing all processed foods, including protein shakes. Okay. Because this is what helps dictate if you're eating the right amount of calories. Protein provides satiety. Whole foods, really you have accurate systems of satiety with that with whole foods, processed foods throws it all out the window. I mean you can eat potato chips all day long, whole potatoes that are plain, not nearly as much. That's just one example. So if you do that in your patient, and this is how I loved doing it this, this way with clients. Because when I would work with clients, I know I could be with them. These are personal, in person clients, by the way. I would see them twice a week and I would talk to them through the whole process and talk to them the whole process. And it could take a while. And here's. Sometimes it takes a lot longer than you think because although it sounds simple, it's actually for A lot of people, especially people dealing with weight issues like being overweight, it's hard not to eat processed foods all the time. It's hard. And then when you do, you go off the rails because those appetite signals are out the window. But if you want to recomp and you want to do this in a way that's like, look, I'll take the time and I'll just let my body reach its healthy state. It's whole natural foods only. Hit your target body weight and protein, lift weights two to three days a week and hit eight to 10,000 steps a day. And over time, most men will eventually land at a kind of healthy body fat percentage and so will most women. Well, and it just, it just works.

[E]

Part of what it looks like too, that's really difficult is there's little to no movement on the scale. Yeah, there shouldn't be.

[C]

Not in the beginning for sure.

[E]

At all.

[D]

Really.

[E]

If you're doing a, if you're doing a real true recomp where you're just, you're. You're constantly losing a pound of body fat, adding a pound of muscle type of deal.

[C]

I mean, if you need to lose a lot of weight, you'll eventually see, you know.

[E]

Yeah, but that's way down the road.

[C]

Right.

[E]

You know, and, and really a recomp on is not what I would do with a person like that. Right. A person that's got way overweight, you

[C]

can actually show movement faster with the reverse diet first and then the cut.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Which is.

[E]

Yeah. So. And honestly, psychologically for that client, it typically is a better strategy is like we're just no scale. We're just focused on getting strong, adding, adding calorie. And then I come the other way so I can show them more movement. Recomp, like I said to me, is is black belt status like you have

[D]

to have sounds like you have to be like intuitive very knowledge and just be happy with.

[C]

I feel good. I'm working out, I'm eating this healthy.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm not too worried about what's happening or how fast it's happening.

[E]

I'm not on the scale dipping up or down, one pound or two. It's like you're. That you're just kind of hovering and just trusting the process just to give

[C]

an examp what this would typically look like. And I'll just paint like a general scenario. If I had a client that needed to lose £40 and we use the recomp method only pro only whole foods, high protein, you know, strength train two or three days a week, hit 8 to 10,000 steps a day. What it would look like. And if they were good with it, it would look like an initial 10 pound weight loss. Some of it would be water, some of it would be body fat. And they would be stuck for a while. It would be like a lot, like a long period of just getting stronger, getting more fit, getting stronger, getting more fit, getting stronger, getting more fit. And then down the road you would start to see the weight loss happen and then boom, here we are. The reverse diet process would be a little faster to get to the cut. And then again the question about the cut, like, how do I know it's time, like, I'm good for a cut? You're eating a lot of calories. You've got good muscle and strength.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

You really stressed yourself and you want to get leaner. Now you can go on a cut. And I don't like to cut men who aren't eating at least, you know, 3030, 200 calories. I don't like to cut women who are at least eating 26, 27 her calories unless they only have like 10 pounds to lose. I just don't like to cut because the plateaus are nasty and you're. And you end up in this low

[E]

calorie, you end up in a low calorie place. It gives them no metabolic flexibility. It means that, oh, now that you've got down this weight, you can't ever eat outside of this box or you're going to automatically go back up. I think it's important too to know when talking about the bulk because this is an area that I think even I messed up in my late 20s, even partly in my 30s. I'd say it doesn't take a lot to bulk.

[C]

No.

[E]

So I think people sometimes hear us say bulk and it sounds like, okay, hard.

[C]

Yeah, a thousand at least.

[E]

Yeah. Green light to like just the, the what the research shows it's very, it's 100 to 200 calories is enough to be considered in a bulk. You don't need to be eating in this massive surplus to be considered in a bulk. You're just, you're eating over maintenance, a good solid 100 to 200 calories. And so it does. And so it's not the green light to go eat like an.

[C]

I feel like sometimes bulk doesn't mean eat garbage.

[E]

Right. I think sometimes when, when it's communicated and like you, someone hears like an episode like this to go like, okay, I, that makes sense. And like, okay, it sounds like something to Do. Okay, well, I'm gonna.

[C]

I'm reverse diet.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, I'm a reverse diet. And their reverse diet doesn't look like a diet at all. It looks like I'm just gonna eat whatever I want and call it a bulk. And it's like, that would be a dirty bulk, which we didn't talk about, which is not.

[C]

Just means you get really fat.

[E]

Right. Which is not what we would advocate for. I don't advocate for. And that's not what I mean when I say I would bulk everybody. I would not dirty bulk anybody. I would get. Switch them over to whole foods and I would really stretch their capacity to eat.

[C]

But it works. High protein, but it works, you guys. I mean, you know, I have lots of examples of. Of clients I've worked with who've done this. It's quite remarkable. The science around metabolic boosting is a little bit, you know, it's a little bit fuzzy because.

[E]

Doesn't tell the whole story.

[C]

It doesn't tell the whole story. But when you talk to coaches and trainers who've worked with people like, I'll tell. I'll give you an example. And this is not. You've seen it multiple times, all the time. This is not. This example I'm going to give. I guarantee you there's a coach or trainer listening who's like, oh, that happened to my client. Like, I had this one woman that I trained, and she was running 20 to 30 miles a week. So she liked to run. Okay, so it's a lot of miles. Plus she was lifting weights four days a week, and she was consuming about 17 to 1800 calories a day. And, you know, she was fit. She, you know, she was doing good with her running, but she wanted to get leaner. She wanted to change her. She was very frustrated because for all the work that she was doing, she's like, I just don't feel like I reflect now. She's like, is it my genetics? You know, I was overweight as a kid. Is this just as good as it gets? So here's what we did. We slowly cut her running at her strength train about three days a week. And we cut her running down from 20 to 30 miles a week, down to 10, and then down to 5. She was lifting weights three days a week. And I reverse dieter, and I got her up to almost 3,000 calories. And she, through that process, dropped body fat and built muscle through that process. So now she's sitting at like, wow, I'm eating 2,600 calories. 2,700 calories. I'm not running 20 to 30 miles a week. I'm way stronger and I look way better. This is easier. This is way easier to maintain.

[E]

Yeah. This is the part that I don't, I don't like. That gets countered on the Internet with the studies that talk about one pound of muscle versus one pound of fat.

[C]

You know, it's way more complex than that.

[E]

Yeah, it gets. They. There's trainers that try to simplify that building 10 pounds of muscle doesn't make that big of a difference on your metabolic rate. And the. In a lab, when you pull both of them out and you test it. Yes. In a situation like that, what they're burning metabolite. But there's so many more factors that go into what it, what it takes to build that muscle, what it takes to maintain that muscle. Lifestyle changes, habits that have changed.

[C]

And the metabolism knows how to become more and less efficient.

[E]

And then, by the way, and then this is what we know about the metabolism, which is, is what? Third place and the most complex things in the universe. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like how arrogant sometimes we are to be like, this is what it is like, okay, buddy, this is what we know so far about it. I can tell you this. I've trained hundreds of people that I. This. It doesn't add up. It doesn't add up how this little petite girl that was eating 1900 calories is now eating 2800 calories, doing less cardio.

[C]

She gained two pounds of muscle.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's only put on £5 on the scale. Like that doesn't math at all based off of that. And, and she's not doing anything radically. In fact, she's doing less activity, which. There goes the law thermodynamics. And so something is off here.

[D]

So definitely benefits your blood sugar too. I mean, you gain more lean muscle tissue and then, you know, stores that, that glucose. Your hormone profile, there's so many benefits to it.

[C]

It's.

[D]

It's interesting to me that they would argue in a different direction.

[C]

Yeah, they try to. Or they oversimplify it to such a crazy degree.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So look, I hope that answered everybody's question, but here's what we have. We have a reverse dieting one on one guide because it is a process. And so anytime we talk about a reverse diet, people are like, okay, how do I know how many calories to add? How do I know where I'm at? When do I add the calories? What does this all look like so we have a guide Again, it's the reverse dieting 101 guide breaks it down. It's 50% off right now you can get it for $23.50. Go to mindpumpreversediet.com, use the code diet50 for the 50% off.

[B]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, performance and maps aesthetic 9 month of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[A]

Everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T Mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now T Mobile is available in a US cellular store near you bigger network. The combination of T Mobiles and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage savings versus comparable Verizon plans plus the costs of options, benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.