2818: Beyond the Scale: Rethinking Metrics for Fitness Success

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2818 — “Beyond the Scale: Rethinking Metrics for Fitness Success”

Release Date: March 20, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this provocative, insight-packed episode, the Mind Pump crew takes a deep dive into how people measure fitness success—shining a bright light on the pitfalls of relying solely on the scale and examining better ways to track real progress. The hosts draw on decades of coaching experience and personal stories to reveal why fixating on weight can sabotage results, cause emotional turmoil, and lead to unhealthy habits, while advocating for a shift toward performance and well-being metrics.

The first half of the episode centers on the dangers of “scale obsession” and why most people misinterpret their weight. Later, the team fields listener questions about fitness programming for blue-collar workers, drop sets, maintaining strength while building endurance, and proper front squat form—all with their trademark candor and a healthy dose of humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Obsession with the Scale as a Fitness Metric

Starts at 02:36

• Sal kicks off with a bold statement:

  “Do you weigh yourself often? Congratulations, you're totally sabotaging yourself.” (02:36, Sal)

• The crew unpacks the negative impact of daily weighing:
  • For most, the scale becomes an emotional trigger, dictating mood and behavior in unhealthy ways.
  • Adam notes, weighing oneself isn’t inherently bad if it’s only data, not emotion—but most people can’t separate the two:

    “Does what the scale say dictate your mood and how you feel for the rest of the day? ...that’s a clear indicator you’re not qualified to interpret the data.” (04:05, Adam)

• Sal with real client stories:
  • Client #1: Despite visible changes and tons of compliments after months of training, a woman was crushed when the scale had only dropped two pounds. “At that point, it had crushed her. I had to rebuild her trust in the process because of that.” (07:25, Sal)
  • Client #2: Another client, happy about losing 10 lbs due to a serious illness, highlights how the scale can reinforce unhealthy perspectives.
• Personal reflection:
  • Sal confesses to his own struggles with scale obsession, admitting he’d manipulate “gains” by eating inflammatory foods just to see the number rise.

Key Insight:

The number on the scale is simplistic and highly misleading, failing to distinguish between muscle, fat, water, and other factors. For the majority, daily weighing is demotivating or leads to destructive compensation—either over-eating or over-restriction.

Memorable Quote:

“Everybody, without any further investigation, understanding...I think weighing yourself daily, for most people, you’re totally sabotaging yourself.” (09:55, Sal)

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2. Better Metrics: Strength, Performance, Sleep, Well-being

• Focus on progress that matters: increased strength, visible definition, improved energy, performance in the gym, digestion, and sleep quality.
• Adam on tracking metrics:
  • Though he’s a big fan of data, the scale is the “least clear” and open to misinterpretation—even for the experienced:

    “As much as I track…when I look at scale weight, of all the things that I track, it’s the least clear answer for me.” (12:08, Adam)

• Sal and Justin note that, over time, experienced trainers move away from constantly tracking any number of metrics and trust their ability to interpret overall progress.
• Shift from numbers to qualitative feedback (“How do you feel? Are you getting stronger?”) is a hallmark of experienced coaching.

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3. The Mirror and Subjectivity of Self-Image

(17:07–20:48)

• The team critiques using the mirror as a primary progress indicator:
  • “Second worst metric and most commonly used is the mirror.” (17:07, Adam)
  • Reflections can change drastically due to hydration, inflammation, sleep, and are highly subjective.
• Adam shares experience with body image as a competitive bodybuilder:

  “I became so hyper focused… I realized how much that can fluctuate and change within 24 to 48 hours.” (17:46, Adam)

• Sal recalls a client who wanted to look how she did in her 20s—yet admits she "wasn't happy" with her appearance then. Highlights how subjective and unreliable self-judgment can be, regardless of objective progress.

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4. Psychological & Social Discussion

(25:00–34:55)

• The show takes a detour into social issues connected to identity, meaning, and “extreme” modern trends (e.g., Therians and the role of meaning/purpose).
• Discussion loops back to the idea that “external validation”—be it body image, identity, or social approval—rarely leads to lasting happiness or groundedness.
• Notable Quote:

  “I think social pressure needs to be back a little bit. There needs to be quality control amongst your peers…this is the reason why we have friends.” (29:21, Justin)

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5. Audience Q&A: Practical Fitness Coaching Topics

(57:03–68:25)

A. Best Program for Blue Collar Workers (57:03)

• Problem: Already active all day, high risk of overtraining with conventional workout routines.
• Team recommends:
  • Very low volume, moderate intensity programs:
    • MAPS 15 Protocol or MAPS Grade 8.
  • Focus on food prep and whole foods over “quick” options like food trucks; avoid sugar-sweetened beverages.
  • “Eat as much as you want—just stick to whole natural foods and you’re good.” (58:59, Sal)
• Pro tips: Prep proteins and carbs in advance; bring a cooler if necessary; don’t stress step count—already covered!

B. Why Don’t We Talk About Drop Sets More? (60:28)

• Drop sets are “super advanced” and not relevant for 99% of the population.
  • “In the context of the things that really move the needle… it’s damn near irrelevant.” (60:58, Adam)
• Used sparingly, mainly for novelty by advanced lifters; overuse can actually hinder results.
  • “Even bodybuilders aren’t doing them all the time.” (62:06, Sal)

C. How to Maintain Strength While Building Endurance/VO2 Max (63:24)

• Some loss of maximal strength when focusing on endurance is inevitable.
  • “The amount of strength training required to try to maintain what you’ve built is very little.” (64:12, Sal)
• Maintain 1-2 days/week of strength work; swap other days for endurance or VO2 work.
  • Progress is fast: “VO2 max…you can improve that within a week’s time.” (64:41, Adam)
• Undulate training focus as needed; cycles of strength and endurance can build well-rounded fitness.

D. Biceps Soreness in Arms-Crossed Front Squat (66:01)

• “Sounds to me like you’re really squeezing and holding onto the bar for dear life… you probably need to lift your elbows higher.” (66:14, Sal)
• Bar should rest on shoulders/anterior delt, not be held by arms.
• Suggest using towels, wrist straps, or a safety bar for easier front squats.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On scale-driven obsession:

  “Pretend it’s £10 up or £10 down, does that change your emotional state? If the answer is yes…you probably shouldn’t be doing it.” (04:55, Adam)

• On performance as the best metric:

  “Performance is actually a better [metric]. If I had to pick any metrics…it’d be performance based.” (16:48, Sal)

• Mirror as a flawed standard:

  "If I know for a fact what's going on based off of all the macros, things I'm doing…But then I look in the mirror right now, and I don't like what I see compared to what I saw just two days ago." (17:46, Adam)

• On novelty techniques (e.g., drop sets):

  “I would do a drop set once a month. Literally like, I think I’m gonna do a drop set today.” (62:06, Sal)

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Timestamps for Key Sections

| Segment Topic | Approx. Time (MM:SS) | |-------------------------------------------------|------------------------| | Main show starts & scale obsession begins | 02:36 | | Why the scale is misleading | 03:33—10:47 | | True metrics for success | 11:01—16:48 | | The mirror and subjectivity | 17:07—20:48 | | Social commentary on identity trends | 25:00—35:00 | | Audience Q&A: Blue collar fitness | 57:03 | | Drop sets: worth it? | 60:28 | | Endurance vs. strength: how to balance | 63:24 | | Front squat form troubleshooting | 66:01 |

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Summary Takeaways

• The number on the scale is a poor and vague indicator of real progress and almost always leads to frustration, faulty decisions, and emotional rollercoasters.
• Performance, strength, energy, sleep, and body composition (when measured sparingly and properly interpreted) are superior benchmarks.
• Trainers themselves gravitate toward less metric fixation with experience, relying more on qualitative progress and long-term habit building.
• “Advanced” bodybuilding techniques like drop sets are rarely useful for general population and often counterproductive.
• Fitness and well-being should be adapted to the context of your daily life (e.g., blue-collar vs. sedentary workers).

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Transcript

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[Doug]

If you want to p and expand

[Sal DeStefano]

your mind, there's only one place to go.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts

[Doug]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews,

[Sal DeStefano]

you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the history of the entire universe. That's right. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we answered questions that were written into Instagram. Our Instagram page is Mind Pump Media. We picked four and we answered them. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 54 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, of course, muscle building, fat loss, nutrition, current events and family life. One more time. If you want to write a question in that we can pick, go to Instagram indpumpmedia Now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Dose. Today we talked about their liver enzyme lowering supplement shown by clinical data to actually work. It actually works. If you want a healthier liver, you gotta use DOS. Go to dosedaily.co mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get 25% off your first month subscription. This episode is also brought to you by Caldera Lab. This is skincare that works. It's all natural. It balances out the microbiome of the face. It looks amazing. This company's exploded recently because people love their products. Today we talked about the ultimate stack of products to dramatically improve the look and feel of your skin. Go check them out. Go to calderalab.com that's C-A L D E R-A L A B.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump20. You get 20% off your first order. We also have a brand new workout program bundle. It's called the Spring Bundle. Maps Symmetry, Maps prime and the advanced training techniques guide. All of that together only 147. That's 50% off. Head over to mapsmarch.com. all right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail]. i'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you weigh yourself often? Congratulations, you're totally sabotaging yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a, that's a bold statement right there.

[Justin Andrews]

Sabotage.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you know, it depends, right? It depends on who we're talking about because I, I weigh myself. Right. So am I sabotaging myself right now because I'm weighing myself, or is it most people that do that end up sabotaging themselves? I can't get behind that.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's a self selection bias. If you weigh yourself daily, you're probably the one that's sabotaging yourself. If you, if you're constantly checking the

[Justin Andrews]

scale, if you're success with the scale. For sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Even. Even if you're not right, what's it. What do you think are the percentage of people that can read that data? As simple as we make it sound and interpret it correctly. That's. That's what makes a really good argument. Or to your point.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that maybe you're not even obsessed, Justin, with the scale, but you regularly weigh yourself. You have to ask yourself, are you even informed enough or understand what you're actually reading?

[Justin Andrews]

Discern, like what kind of.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, like muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Like ratio versus fat. Like you consist of versus water versus water.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I would, I would even, I would even reword it like this. I'd say. Does what the scale say dictate your mood and how you feel for the rest of the day?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that. Well, that to me, you're winning or losing. That to me is a clear indicator that you're, you're not qualified to interpret that data.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Because it shouldn't. Like, because again, I, I weigh myself daily. It's feedback and it's like, oh, interesting, this might be going on. Or what? Like, and then I also crush your feelings. No, no, it doesn't make me go like, oh my God, I'm so sad. Like, oh, I'm going the wrong way. Freak out. Like, it's just like, oh, interesting, this could be going on. This might be like a lot. So I, I bet you're right. I bet a large percentage of people that do use the scale and get on it, what it says, and this is a great exercise for anybody who's listening right now who just may disagree with this? Your statement is, pretend it's £10 up or £10 down, does that change your emotional state? And if it were, we're not even

[Sal DeStefano]

telling you what that. 10 pounds.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That's exactly the same. Just 10 pounds up. Say, say pretend you got on there today and it was 10 pounds higher than you expected or 10 pounds less than you expected. And does that change your, your emotional state? And if the answer, if you can be honest with yourself and you would say, oh my God, yeah, that would make me either really happy or, yeah, that would make me really frustrated, then that says you probably shouldn't be doing it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have, I have two great stories around this, and then I'll. And then I'll talk about myself because this is, you know, this is. Was a constant struggle for me and it can still be even now, so many years later. But I remember the first time this really struck me. I was a relatively new trainer and I had this woman that I trained. And at this point I had become privy to the fact that frequent weighing would often get in the way. Okay. And what I mean by that is like, if I had a client and we're building muscle and this person's interested in losing weight or body fat, God forbid the scale go up a pound. Like, it was just so hard, you'd have to deal with that with the client. There's lots of conversations and talking around it, essentially talking them off the ledge type of deal. So I had this. At this point, I had kind of seen this and I had this woman, she wanted to lose weight. I don't remember how much it was. I was like, probably £15, something like that. And I had convinced her to not weigh herself. We had this big conversation. She's like, okay, I won't do it. So I'm training her and she's getting stronger and she's getting visibly leaner. Uh, what I mean by that is like, it just. There was more definition, more definition. Arms. Her lower body was shaping. And then she was coming to me and she was telling me all the compliments and comments she was getting from work and from her husband. So she'd come in and so this was over like a three month period or something. She'd come in and be like, oh, another person I haven't seen in a long time came up to me and said, oh my God, you've lost so much weight. She's like, this is like the third person. People come up to her and say, oh, my God, how much weight have you lost? And she'd say, well, I don't know, I'm not allowed to weigh myself, type of deal.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so this is just kept happening. Her husband was like, oh, my God, you look amazing. You look so good. This people worker, you know, co workers, would compliment on how much weight she was losing. Meanwhile, she's getting stronger, and I'm seeing more definition. Well, anyway, we finally hop on the scale a few months later, and the scale had barely budged. I think it went down like a pound or two. She was devastated, totally devastated. Crushed. This isn't working.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is abandoned ship. Yes. And I remember we had to sit down. I went. I remember I sat down with her. I said, your strength went up 30 pounds here, 15 pounds there. Everybody's not saying to you, you look different. They're saying to you, oh, my God, how did you lose so much weight? Your husband's saying it. You've been commenting on this. And I said, you do realize you've lost body fat and built muscle, which means you're smaller and more defined. But at that point, it had crushed her. And there was, like, this long period after that.

[Justin Andrews]

That number just really got.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had to rebuild trust. I had to, like, rebuild her trust in the process because of that. And then on the other hand, I have another. Had another story of a client who had gotten really sick. They got really sick and came in after a while. Like, they got really sick, came in. And I remember they came in, they were depleted. You could tell they were really sick. They probably lost muscle. It was like one of those illnesses where it was, like, you know, throwing up the whole deal and then fever. Okay. She came in, gets on the scale, and she's like, oh, well, at least I lost 10 pounds. This is great. And, like, she was happy about it, even though, like, you obviously just got over a major illness. It was like four weeks long. And so these are great examples of how this could really mess you up. And if you're the kind of person that weighs yourself daily, this is dictating your joy. And it's also dictating what you do in the gym and with your diet to the point where it's moving you in the wrong direction. Now I'll speak to myself. As a kid, I just want to get big. And I can still struggle with this as a grown man, but definitely as a kid. As a kid, it was like the scale was everything. If I went up, I don't care what I gained. I just want to gain weight on the scale. And I would actually veer towards inflammatory foods because they'd make me hold water. Like pizza was great because I'd gain a few pounds on the scale and I'd never weigh myself in the morning because I knew I'd be heaviest at night and I'd weigh myself after a heavy meal. God forbid I weigh myself before I ate, even though I know logically that was like, dumb. It was totally moving me in this terrible direction. So if you're looking at the scale constantly and weighing yourself daily, you're sabotaging yourself. There are far better metrics to measure, like strength, energy, your overall performance and fitness, your digestion, your sleep. You could use body fat tests even though. But those can get also carried away. But that's a better measurement. The scale just tells you total mass, tells you nothing about body composition. It doesn't say water retention or not or dehydrate or not. It's just a, it literally is just a number. Everybody, without any further investigation, understanding. I think weighing yourself daily, for most people, you're totally sabotaging yourself.

[Justin Andrews]

It's funny because most people, it's for a look anyways and like, see your point earlier of like, everybody's giving positive feedback, you know, and receiving that and you know, to, to be hung up on just the number of the scale like this is. I've had many clients that, that was the main determiner and they come in and they just had to lose the weight, you know, and to lose the weight and by any means necessary, feel fatigued, you know, but they're still happy about it because they got to that result. And it's just, it's. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, of all three of us, I'm, I'm for sure the guy that probably tracks these types of metrics the most and more regularly than everybody. Right. Everything from the scale to DEXA scans

[Sal DeStefano]

to my competitor, this was what you, this was your game.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, Right. And even before that, I, I've, I've always been fascinated with that data. I still love that data. Like right now I'm tracking sleep a lot. Like, I, I pay attention to all stuff, but I think the problem with the scale is in its simplicity, that we, we make it seem so simple, yet it's probably one of the more sophisticated pieces of data that you could get meaning, like how difficult it is to interpret.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

What, what it's giving you, like, it's not like body fat test is actually really clear what moved it like if you go take a body fat test, say you, you've been following a plan for two months, you get a body fat test, there's your body composition. Yeah, it's pretty clear. There's, there's still cases where that can definitely mislead you. In example I gave was recently with what we had been going through with Corinne. Like, it didn't give a great result back for us, but it's still the direction I want to go and I want to take her. And so some people can misinterpret even that, but for the most part, it's a pretty good indicator. And it's pretty clear, right? Like, oh, look, I gained fat, I lost. Or I, I lost fat, I gained muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm moving in the right direction or not moving at all, whatever the case may be. But the scale is, is actually much harder to interpret. Very, very difficult. I mean, even for somebody who's been doing this for a very long time and is tracking all these other metrics, I mean, I'll get on the scale and I'll still go. It's not like, oh, I definitely. This is happening. I'm going, okay, this, I'm recounting. Well, I've been doing this, I've been doing that. This could be going on right now. This could be like, I'm. I even question that. And yet we. So many people take that data and go, oh. And they, they right away go to a conclusion. It's like, that's crazy. Like, as much as I track and as much as I'm really good at all these things, when I look at the scale weight, of all the things that I track, it's the least clear answer for me. I still go, like, it could be these things. I might be do this. Maybe I'll try this one variable. Like, I definitely do not allow it to go like, oh, no, I'm off the rails. Or oh, no, this is. Or, yeah, this is perfect. Like, that's so vague of all the metrics that we can use, you know,

[Sal DeStefano]

it's the most vague. You know, it's wild about metrics. And I know this is true for you guys. I guarantee and I guarantee it's true for most really experienced trainers, except for the context of, let's say, where you're training competitors. Right? These are people who are getting on stage, and that's different. But the average person, early days trainer or early days trainer, me, I used to do body fat tests and scale measurements relatively frequently. My clients and I do often every two Weeks, probably often every two weeks. I'm testing. I'm testing body composition. I'm looking at body fat percentage. Gain muscle, lose muscle, gain body fat, lose body fat later version of myself. I almost did no metrics ever. And I bet you that's true for you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, remember I. I admitted I failed Corinne on this journey that we just went on, and we waited still six to eight weeks. I can't remember what it was between tests, and it was still too early.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, because I know. I know we're on the right path.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

I know we're on the right path of what we're doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Too much information for a client.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is bad often.

[Justin Andrews]

And so, yeah, I used to just, like, I would take all those metrics at the very beginning, and so I would try and, like, get as much data as possible on the client, and then I would just store it away, and then we would literally only revisit it when they felt like they made immense progress and they're pumped and like, well, let's see kind of where we. We landed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, and let's look at this.

[Adam Schafer]

That, you know, so such a. So it was so funny, too. I was. I was like, I was actually trying to figure out, how can I do this when I went to get her test or when she went to go take her test, because she goes and does it, and it's all in her data system, her email and everything. But in a perfect world, I only get it. She doesn't get it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, all you would say to her is, we're moving in the right direction.

[Adam Schafer]

I would, like, literally, I wouldn't report back to her what is being. What is being read by the. The test, because I am very confident in what I'm doing. Like, we've done this enough times.

[Justin Andrews]

Mental burden.

[Adam Schafer]

I was aware of what was the potential where we needed to be. And even she knows, logically, I would have protected her from the mental games that it plays. If I. If I could have and I should have, like, figured out a way, like, you know what? Let's. I should have said that from day one was like, you know what? Let's have your test emailed just to me, and I'll interpret the data I don't want you to see.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll change your training.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I should have. I should have done that. And I. So I look back now like, this was a mistake. Is Coach Adam on this part? I should have done that. Because then she'd still be. She's seen all seeing PRs damn near every other week. People are complimenting every, you know what I'm saying? But then the data comes back and it's not. Yeah, ideal. Right. Or doesn't say this, but you know,

[Sal DeStefano]

you're moving in the right direction.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's funny, I used to ask typically female clients that ask them this just kind of prove a point. Say, okay, let's say, let's say your weight on the scale never change. Let's say you, you still going to weigh whatever 160 pounds, whatever it is, but I got you to lose 10% body fat. So you gained muscle, but the weight is the same on the scale. You know what they used to say to me? I don't care, I just want to get smaller.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

You do realize you'd be smaller, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just want to be. Yeah. It's like, oh, you. And then I do the famous, like, you want me to cut your leg off? You lose weight on the scale.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Will that make you happy? It just kind of illustrate the silliness of the whole thing and it does, it really does mess people up. This is my performance. So you may be hearing this and thinking, oh, what, you didn't track anything for your clients? No, no, no. I used to look at their energy, their strength, their performance, their pain. I could tell if they were gaining a lot of body fat. I could tell. And so then that would adjust my training. But performance is a far better metric. It's not perfect, but it's better, drives

[Justin Andrews]

them to better habits.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, if you dramatically increase your fitness, the side effect of that is you're probably going to get leaner and build muscle. Probably health wise, you're way better and quality of life wise, you're way better. Performance is actually a better. If I had to pick any metrics that I could only ever use, they'd be performance based for the most part.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, because I would say the, the second worst metric and most commonly used is the mirror.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, God.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because that can be so deceiving. Oh my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh God.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, and that's subjective. That really was highlighted personally for me. I mean, I, I, I pieced that together later in my career as a trainer. But the, the, because I had to become so hyper focused on it in the bodybuilding world and it was now become like part of like my job. I'm, I'm totally looking at all these things, I realized, wow, how much that can fluctuate and change within 24 to 48 hours. And also give you a feedback of, oh, my God, this doesn't look right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

But you. I know, because I was tracking so detailed. That was my favorite part of the whole experience of competing, aside from manipulating myself, was the coaching level up I got from. It was, oh, wow. Like, if I know for a fact what's going on based off of all the macros, things I'm doing that I know I'm doing the right things. But then I look. I'm looking in the mirror right now, and I don't like what I see compared to what I saw just two days ago. Oh, this is crazy. Like, this is totally what my clients have felt and expressed to me so many times before. When they're like, I know I don't. I look this way. And they're like, it's like, how do you. How do you argue that?

[Sal DeStefano]

I. I had a client once. It's like one of those breakthrough moments as a trainer. And then I would use this as an example later, but I had a client who was in her late 30s, so, like, 38, 39. And she said, this is what I want to look like. And she brought a picture of herself when she was in her mid-20s. She was like, at the beach or whatever. She's like, this is what I want to look like. So I looked at it, and, you know, of course she was younger, more fit, the whole deal. And I said, how did you feel about the way you looked when you were 25? And she's like, wow. She goes, wow, let me think about that. She goes, yeah, I wasn't happy with myself. Isn't that interesting? I said, I think the way you feel about yourself is largely subjective. And it really dawned on her, like, yeah, when I was in my mid-20s, even though I look like that, I was so insecure about the way I looked. Had you asked me then, I would have been like, oh, no, I got too much flab here. I don't look good there, and whatever. And studying yourself in the mirror, you're setting yourself up for terrible failure.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, and like you said, I mean, before we were on the podcast today, I was talking to you openly, man. I can tell right now. I have systemic inflammation right now going on, and my diet's dialed right now. And so there's a couple things I know for sure that happens there. I'm puffier, for sure. So I'm holding water all over the body, which in the reflection of the mirror, looks like body fat. Looks like body fat. It also reflects on the scale Holds an extra two to four pounds for me on the scale, yet I know I'm, like, dialed nutritionally, and so it's more like, oh, what else is going on in my life that's causing this inflammation? I can feel it. I can see it. I. I notice it's really easy for me. My aura ring, the way it slides on and off. I'm like, I know when I'm holding extra water, and yet I. I know it's not a problem with my training and my diet. And so that's where this would throw a client way off. And I get it. Because objectively, you look. Because you. You say subject, your image is subjective, and there is a subjective part, but there's a very objective part of it. I'm for sure fluffier. Like, there's no. There's, like, it's. It's very clear. So it makes it extra hard because there's a subjective element to it. And then there's actually a true objective element to it that, yeah, you could easily be holding an extra two or four pounds of water for a period of a couple days because you ate something, you had extra stress, you. You had a really rough night or two of sleep. You over trained, you've got a small injury like that, which is probably what my case is right now. Like, you. Like, there's a lot of. There's a whole host of things that could have happened that it does not reflect. You're not dieting. Right, and you're not training.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. I just had this conversation with my wife because she was taking creatine, and she's like, I stopped taking it. So why. She goes, I just feel bigger. I'm like, you know what's happening with creatine? Like, it's your muscles.

[Justin Andrews]

She's like, I know, but in the muscles.

[Sal DeStefano]

And she knows. She knows. We're having this conversation about this, and she's. She used to be a trainer. She's still. It'll just mess with your head. And creatine doesn't make you hold water in a way that looks like bloat makes your muscles fuller. If anything, it makes you look more sculpted, and you will go up a couple pounds on the scale from it because you're more hydrated. But people are like, this is why creatine has been hard to sell to women for so long, by the way. Although more women are using it now because I think they're getting. They're finally figuring it out. But initially, this is why you had this whole category of creatine. Supplements that were like creatine for women. No bloat. Because women would take creatine, their muscles will feel fuller. But to them, promoting myth.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, a lot of people don't know how to discern the difference between the two. They look and feel totally different. So like, so what I have right now, systemic inflammation looks different than water retention from in the muscle. In the muscle. It's very, very different.

[Sal DeStefano]

One looks like sculpted tone.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. In shape.

[Sal DeStefano]

The other one looks like water.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. Totally total different.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. So I. We've been getting message. I want to cover something because we've been getting some messages from people who've been using Dose, the liver support supplement they have, and they're reporting back, like, energy, like energy boost. Like, I have way more energy. So, like, what's in it that's giving me more energy? So what I did is I pulled up common symptoms of, you know, I looked up elevated liver enzymes, or let's just say your liver is being a little bit too stressed. Okay. And by the way, there's. There are supplements out there that will say that they'll help with liver health, but very few of them actually have clinical data. Dose actually has, has real studies on their product and has shown a majority of people have an improvement in liver function. So you'll see this in the data. So if you go get your blood test, you'll see an improvement. Most people see an improvement in their. In their liver enzyme markers. But here are some of the symptoms, some of the common symptoms that your liver enzymes are a bit elevated, loss of appetite, itchy skin. This is one where you kind of feel itchy skin, fatigue and bloat. And so people are reporting back and they're like, is this an energy supplement? I'm like, well, if you needed it, it's an energy supplement. You'll feel better from that.

[Justin Andrews]

Interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

What are the different flavors they have, Doug? Do you know they are. Do you know what they all are?

[Doug]

I have to look it up.

[Adam Schafer]

I know they have a few of them, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Well, the products, I don't think they're different flavors of each product. I think it's like liver. The 1:1 is for liver and it's a specific. Because you drink what, two ounces of it?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember, I thought you had to drink the whole bottle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank God.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Don't do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's like a two ounce serving.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a pretty common one though, in the. The blood markers back, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You'll see a little bit of elevated Liver.

[Sal DeStefano]

Especially if you had a hard workout. Yeah, yeah, really hard workout. Or elevated CK levels if you have a lot of muscle mass. And doctors who are not familiar with athletes. Yeah, I've had people come back and

[Adam Schafer]

be like my doctor said, that's how I always tell you. That's how you always know when you got a good like doctor who's like strength trains and understands that is they'll normally when they go over their blood, they'll say, oh, this is a little elevated. But I. I could tell you lift weights. And so that's probably a little bit from there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Because I've had both sides. I've someone who's like, hey, this is a little hot.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And I'm like, really? Is that a problem? What do you got, Doug?

[Doug]

So I mean there's just one flavor for each variety.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that's the liver one. That and it tastes like, kind of tastes like, like carrot juice almost.

[Doug]

I think it's a combination of a variety of different juices of some ginger in it, some orange.

[Adam Schafer]

I believe they have another product too.

[Doug]

Turmeric. Oh yeah. They have obviously the cholesterol. Cholesterol.

[Sal DeStefano]

They have one for cholesterol too.

[Doug]

Yeah, they have one for skin.

[Adam Schafer]

And now what I think you've shared this before about their pro, which is. Is cool, is that they have like really good tests and stuff where people.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah, these are.

[Adam Schafer]

This have actually done blood work.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Taken just that. And they've gone down that actual studies. Yeah, that's cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which is great because supplements typically don't come with. With studies.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. Especially something like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. All right. I got a new thing that's going on in the world that is interesting. There's a new thing, a new category of. I don't know what you would call it. Identify identity. So do you guys know what Therians are? Justin probably knows.

[Justin Andrews]

I've heard this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doug, look up Therians.

[Adam Schafer]

Sounds very Star Trek. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

These.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll pull up the article. Dude. So

[Justin Andrews]

little breakaway.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, look at these guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So they're kind of like furries, but different.

[Sal DeStefano]

So Therians are people who.

[Adam Schafer]

Look at. There's even a thing that says how do you know the difference between a Therian and a furry?

[Sal DeStefano]

No. So a Therian is someone who identifies psychologically. So mentally, physically, spiritually with a non human entity or an animal. So these are people actually identify.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not either one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So this is like I am a dog. This is how I identify. And they'll walk on all fours.

[Justin Andrews]

So we Just we don't call these people crazy anymore.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know. Probably had no trauma or anything growing up at all.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's sad. But, dude, I mean, you know what this. You know, I was thinking, why can't.

[Adam Schafer]

Why can't. Why is that so taboo to talk about that, by the way?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know why.

[Adam Schafer]

Because the percentage on this stuff is, like, ridiculous.

[Sal DeStefano]

When you see it, I think what's happening. I'll try to keep it, like, secular because I have a different worldview now. But I think what's happening is there's such a lack. There's. There's simultaneously a lack of meaning.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's combined with this idea that you. You create your own destiny and you can be whatever you want. And that combined when you have a lack of meaning, with, I can be whatever I want. And you. And you're like, well, I don't want to be this. And so now I want to be this other thing. And it feels good to be this other thing. Therefore, that's probably. That's what I'm gonna get.

[Justin Andrews]

Really unique attention, which, you know, some people are starving for. So, you know, you're going to do weird things.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And so they meet together. This is actually a big phenomenon in some countries where you get, like, these groups and. And they meet together and. Yeah. And so a furry is someone who likes to be in the costume, but these. These believe.

[Justin Andrews]

They believe it. And they're. They're walking around like animals.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Dude, you see the picture. You see them get together, like, all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

Or is this just like, you know, when they hang out, this is.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is what they are.

[Adam Schafer]

This is what happens, too, because of the Internet and the fact that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you get more of these ideas.

[Adam Schafer]

There's probably only a few hundred or maybe a few thousand of these people in the entire world, but they can all find each other.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it looks like a movement, some

[Justin Andrews]

sort of a. I feel like we've hit every category.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nope. I bet you there's more. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I watched that show. I love Taboo. I love Strange Addictions. Like, that's my jam, dude. I love weird people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I feel like they've gone everywhere with it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know what's left.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, that. But again, what's that. What's that? The. What's that thing where they. You see a group of people dancing, and then you'll come, You'll. You. That study, you know? You know what I'm talking about? So it's.

[Justin Andrews]

It.

[Adam Schafer]

Because of the Internet. You have that where these would be all over the world. They wouldn't be able. They wouldn't be able to collect collectively, get together. So all it takes is one person who. Who sees this collective group and now goes like, okay, I could, you know, I'm saying, who's, like, to your point, lost, no identity, no purpose. And it's like, I can relate to this person. I like animals, whatever.

[Sal DeStefano]

The thing is, my worldview is different now because I would have explained this, like, I guess, psychologically, but now I have a different worldview, which is, I guess you could. Well, definitely could say more biblical. But this is really an extension of this idea that you determine what your identity is. And now that doesn't sound bad on the surface, but let me just paint a picture, okay. If my idea, identity is a podcaster, this is what I am. This is my identity. This is everything. And then I lose my voice. What am I now? Or my identity is as a father and then my kids move out. Yeah. Or my identity as a construction worker or a singer, or I'm an athlete, and then I get older and I can't be an athlete.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but those are all, like, based in reality. Like, this is like fantasy land.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, what my point is. Yes, that's the secular side.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a big difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And that's, you know, but it's just

[Sal DeStefano]

an extension and it goes to crazy. Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

But there's no, like, feedback they're accepting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, like, you know, there's no, like, like, checks and balances within their friend groups.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know someone.

[Justin Andrews]

Everybody's leaning into the fantasy and not, like, they just don't want to face reality, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I think social pressure needs to be back a little bit.

[Justin Andrews]

There needs to be quality control amongst your peers, you know? And I mean, I'm sorry, but, like, it needs to come back with force because, you know, this is the reason why we have friends. This is the reason why we have family.

[Adam Schafer]

To tell you you're stupid. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Stop doing stupid.

[Adam Schafer]

But you're saying, like, it's cool to play.

[Justin Andrews]

And, you know, you can. You can do LARPing and all that stuff, which is great, but, like, that's for play.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

This isn't like, your identity.

[Sal DeStefano]

Make your fan base angry,

[Adam Schafer]

bro. I'm telling the deal for play. I'm there with you. I'll larp with you.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

He's got.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's got a huge larpy.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm not going to put costume on, but you know what I'm saying? Somebody sent justice for whatever reason. I got a question for you, S. So. So a part of you. Do you. Is there no longer a part of you that identifies as a podcaster or a father?

[Sal DeStefano]

I think that my identity is in who I belong to, which would be God. So whatever that is, then that's where I'll go. And that's a very. That feels so much more grounded and secure, as crazy as that may sound to somebody who doesn't, you know, have a faith like that. I think it's very secure because all this stuff here is fleeting. Everything here. Now, that doesn't mean I don't want to be a great dad or I don't want to do a good job.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You don't think that you can. You don't think that you can identify as a father and also be able

[Sal DeStefano]

to disconnect, not make that the ultimate identity? That's my point. If that's your ultimate.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think that's what you have to make clear, because I think there's. If someone were to ask me, I absolutely identify as a father, as a leader, as, you know, those things, I. I identify.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's not your thing that you worship.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, no, of course. So. And. And at any time, those things could change. Right. So I think there. There's a part of the ability to identify as something without, like, losing yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because inevitably, all that can be stripped from you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. I know somebody, by the way, who.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because I.

[Adam Schafer]

That being a father could be stripped from me. Right. And if that's all I identify with. And that was.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, even if.

[Adam Schafer]

And I couldn't disconnect from it, even

[Sal DeStefano]

if there wasn't a travesty that happened. I mean, how many times? Probably more common for most.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, super common. When they. Kids move out. That's why you see relationships, the percentage of them that. That end in divorce.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're lost. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because they. They. They did. They identified only as a dad or a mom or a parent, and that was their whole thing. And then all of a sudden, the kid goes to that phase. Right. Like most kids do when they turn 18 to, say, 25, where they actually want to disconnect from mom and dad a little bit and go do their own thing. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm no longer.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know someone whose kid went to a school who. The school had to have a litter box for a kid that identified as. I'm serious. Yeah, I know the school.

[Justin Andrews]

Literally, this happened in a local school here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe it's the same school.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you know about this?

[Justin Andrews]

I have heard about.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Where they actually set a litter box aside.

[Adam Schafer]

They actually did it.

[Justin Andrews]

They did it. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

This is the.

[Justin Andrews]

This is the height of like, you

[Adam Schafer]

know, we are at the height. We're definitely coming back.

[Justin Andrews]

Still there. I feel like it's coming back.

[Adam Schafer]

We're coming back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're right.

[Adam Schafer]

We're coming back. We're coming. We're coming back. And I remember it doesn't work. I remember when you guys were sounding the alarms five years ago or whatever like that. And I'm like, dude, this is how it works. Pendulum swing so hard this direction. Peak stupidity. And we're on our way back. Yeah, like, that's just. It's. And of course, we'll probably extremely swing the other way, you know, over the. We'll go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, now you have AI. You have AI, you know, relationship. I just watched another clip of this woman who's got this. She used to be married and everything. She had actual relationships. Now she's like, has this relationship with her AI boyfriend and she's like, it's the best relationship I've ever had. I'm like, oh, no, it's not real.

[Adam Schafer]

And I think. I said, I think, I think. Well, unfortunately, unfortunately, there'll people that will worship it, there'll be people that marry it, there'll be people that all the things with it, and then we'll run through a period, probably a decade, maybe two, of that extreme side right there. But once we have enough thousands of idiots to do it and realize where that path ends, I think humans tend to correct and come back the other direction. I think that's. I think one of the. The biggest keys. I think somebody navigating through this world is. Is actually to remain. I mean, this is one of the things I love about my wife. Sometimes I think she's crazy how. How disconnected she can be to some stuff and like, unaware of what's going on.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's probably better.

[Adam Schafer]

But it is. She has such a healthy relationship with it. And it's just like. It's all. It's all noise to her, you know, it's all. It's like, it's in it. It's. It's like we. We focus on what we can control in our house and our child and our families.

[Sal DeStefano]

What you actually have the most influence.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. It's like we do not have this influence over even millions of idiots doing extreme weird things and worshiping weird things and doing like, it's just. And if any. And. And allowing it to affect your daily emotion is. Is giving up your. Your. Your power, your control, and what you can. Truly.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's anxiety inducing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, very anxiety inducing. You know, and. And if you. The. The more you feed into it, the more it just elevates.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude, I had a good quote as Duncan Trussell. This is, like, perfect with, like, you know, Katrina's mentality. It's like he says, some poor phoneless fool is probably sitting next to a waterfall somewhere, totally unaware of how angry and scared he's supposed to be.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, dude, that's so Katrina.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's so true. That is.

[Adam Schafer]

That is what I thought.

[Justin Andrews]

That was a brilliant quote.

[Sal DeStefano]

1.

[Adam Schafer]

100% that, like, I need to know

[Sal DeStefano]

what's happening, though, in the world.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, why?

[Justin Andrews]

What are you gonna do? Why?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, what are you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

What values that bring you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, well, I can't do anything about it. Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Even when I try to inform her on something, she's.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't even want to hear it. Well, my wife's got.

[Justin Andrews]

My wife like that, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Really? So my wife's got like that, too. She turns off routinely, will turn off social media or her whole phone. In fact, right now, she's going through where she turns off her phone throughout the day. And if I want to get a hold of her, there's other ways to get a hold of her. In fact, you know what we're doing? She ordered a phone that you can. That you can connect to your cell phone, that you turn your cell phone off or basically brick it. But if you get a call, it'll go through this basic phone. Yeah, yeah. So if I want to call her, she gets a call, but she doesn't pick up her normal phone with everything on it.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you've known. Katrina's never had any of that ever, Ever.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, she's. You know what she told. You know, my wife says to me, she goes, if you think I need to know something, tell me. So I'm like, all right. And you know what? There's almost nothing that I feel like something happens. I'm like, do I need to tell her this? No, it's not going to change anything. Speaking of extremes, I've been seeing these reports of gas prices in California. Have you seen. So is this happening? I haven't got gas yet. Is it here or is this. In some areas.

[Adam Schafer]

I thought the last time we looked, we're at 5.

[Justin Andrews]

It's increased. But like, I mean, some areas.

[Adam Schafer]

Close to six. We're close to six right now.

[Justin Andrews]

I heard reports of, like, eight.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's some places in California where it's like, almost $8.

[Adam Schafer]

No way. Really? I know.

[Doug]

That was two days ago.

[Justin Andrews]

That's hard to believe. I don't know if it's California for.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, someone was doing. People were screenshotting and I don't. It might be in places like Tahoe.

[Justin Andrews]

It might be.

[Adam Schafer]

No, we're normally hard to. The area is normally higher.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but it's.

[Adam Schafer]

No, remote places are normally, I thought

[Sal DeStefano]

more expensive because you're up in the mountains.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, no. Remote places are normally cheaper.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look up.

[Adam Schafer]

We're normally like one of the peak places, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it almost six or five?

[Adam Schafer]

Because they have. They have way more control and power on us. We need it.

[Justin Andrews]

Gavin Newsom's a great negot, so, you know, like, he's been killing it.

[Sal DeStefano]

More than half of that is not even the gas. It's a bunch of taxes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, the gas. Gas stations don't make a ton of money. No gas station. You know, gas station.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know the most.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, gas stations don't make money on gas. They almost break even on gas.

[Sal DeStefano]

They make it on the concessions.

[Adam Schafer]

They make it on. On the concessions. That's how a gas station makes money. It is not on gas. So when you think like, this guy's gouging me, it's like, no, he's making, like, pennies. Pennies on.

[Justin Andrews]

One of our friends used to own a Shell station.

[Adam Schafer]

They make.

[Justin Andrews]

They make it all on.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. When people come in and buy drinks and snacks and all that crap. That's. Which is why, if you have a tiny little notice how much those have evolved in the last decade. Like, that. Now, a lot of gas stations are like, almost little shopping centers, grocery stores.

[Doug]

So I found a gas station in Mendocino is charging almost $10 a gallon.

[Sal DeStefano]

There you go, dude.

[Doug]

But that's not standard. This is just weird.

[Sal DeStefano]

How are they charging $10?

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, that's taking advantage of the marijuana market.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Maybe.

[Adam Schafer]

Maybe all these drug dealers got to go up there, go pick up their weed, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh.

[Adam Schafer]

They're like, yeah. And you're like, I gotta. I gotta ship me in a 400. They know you got cash, like, all. Yeah, I'm recording. I think, like, tons of cash. They're like, I gotta get back here with all this, so.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, perfect. I got you.

[Doug]

I like the New York Times. It said, U.S. gasoline prices rising again. Hit $3.48 a gallon.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that was where so low, dude. In California, that would be. By the way, they're going to start charging now per month for miles. You guys know that.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that going to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

I believe they passed that. Maybe look that up, Doug, in California. So however many miles you drive now, you're going to pay a tax. Which. How do they, how are they going to know that? You just report it?

[Doug]

I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

We start turning back our odometers that

[Adam Schafer]

we're do the

[Sal DeStefano]

old school style when

[Adam Schafer]

you, when you do the math on the, the income that is taxed times the sales tax, times the gas tax times. Like your money gets taxed 60%.

[Sal DeStefano]

More than that, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

More than that. Like it's. So it's a form of slavery at this point.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, we got, we got $30 million, dude. Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

So they don't actually have this, you know, implemented at this time. They're studying a road charge program. These are lawmakers, by the way, who are studying to replace the declining gas tax. So I don't know where.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, so they're going to lower. So this is what they do. Like we're going to lower your taxes. We'll make it up somewhere else.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we're going to get it on the back side.

[Adam Schafer]

Didn't we just get a bunch of oil places?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, but there's also.

[Justin Andrews]

Where's it going?

[Sal DeStefano]

They're also bombing oil refineries though, all over in the Middle East. So I don't know.

[Adam Schafer]

Our oil supply isn't going down.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's still causing good NGOs or anything.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, it caused oil prices to, to. I, I actually.

[Sal DeStefano]

Does that mean it's a good time to buy oil?

[Adam Schafer]

Oil and speculation. Yes. So on speculation, oil already spiked. It would have been smart for you to buy it, say two months ago. Two months ago you would have made.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it going to be a good investment, Adam, to buy a horse because of all this?

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you know, I'm the guy who's banking on all these gas engines. Like that's. I'm all, I'm all in on that.

[Sal DeStefano]

How do you, how do you, how do you tax my mileage?

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, no, hey, here's the thing that I like.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm gonna go full cow.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm all in on that. On, on. On that theory that even if, whatever we get all this gas, we do all this stuff like that, like they're the. What they're doing on regulations. If you guys haven't paid attention to like every generation of car, even if, even if it's a company that still is making gas powered car, it's like the Restrictions they put on the exhaust and all things like that. It's just like you have all these cars that are going to. Going down to, you know, six cylinder, four cylinder, hybrid everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

The high, the high output ones will be collectors.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Like my 68, like, things like that. Like a real old school engine that's like. Yeah, no, that I think is. Is going to be like a thoroughbred horse, you know, saying like, like your best, best horse that you would pay. Which by the way, horse, like ridiculous horses with like hundreds of thousands.

[Sal DeStefano]

Millions.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, people spend millions on. On like thoroughbred horses.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was just talking. My daughter, my niece, they were talking about gas prices, you know, because they're, they just, they're young kids, so now they're realizing how expensive things are. And I'm like, you know how much it used to cost me to fill my tank in the 90s? I, you know, it was like 20 bucks.

[Adam Schafer]

I have 20 bucks. My furthest memory back of pumping the cheapest gas I ever had. I have the memory of the gas station, the day, everything. How funny is that? 98 cents. I bet Doug has 98 cents. 98 cents. 98 cents a gallon. It cost me, I think 11. I think obviously I was close to all the way e. The light was on. I believe in my Acura Integra. It cost me $11 and something since the entire tank.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doug used to use steam engines, though.

[Doug]

Yeah, no, my dad used to Talk about like 5 cents a gallon gasoline and things like that back in the day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Five cents a gallon, bro. That's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, if you would have. Think about that. That rating you would have. If you would have just put a. A tanker away. Right. You know what I'm saying?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Gas doesn't last.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, it doesn't?

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

How. How long does gas?

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, not long.

[Doug]

It degrades quickly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Very quickly.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I. I did not know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. You can't like stockpile it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I thought you could stay. I wasn't aware of that.

[Doug]

I mean, there's additives you can put in it to life, but I don't know how long you can keep it. But for example, if you have like a generator, you know, you don't want to keep gasoline in it for too long. For too long?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Really? Yeah. Don't they have solar power generators?

[Doug]

They do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Doug]

I mean, Tesla, I mean. Oh, they essentially have that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Speaking of Tesla, I sent batteries for

[Justin Andrews]

your house are cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

I sent some to Adam. Let me pull it up, you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

It's really cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

I sent it to Adam, because this

[Adam Schafer]

is so like chamath who did the breakdown.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. This is so something Adam would be into. So I'm gonna pull up.

[Adam Schafer]

It's as much as I. I'm anti electric cars and hate electric, I would.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this guy didn't analyze. So you know, Tesla is. Has these robot taxis. Yeah. Soon come. Right. So you can literally buy one and then allow it to be used. And he said have it make money for you. Yes, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

He said your car prostitute.

[Sal DeStefano]

He said

[Adam Schafer]

car. Car pimp.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Be a car pimp.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So one robo taxi. Theoretically, this guy did all the math. Right after you do all the cost of the car uptake all that stuff would make you roughly $30,000 a year.

[Adam Schafer]

That's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

So he's like, if you own 34 robo taxes, you make a million dollars a year. Yeah, that's kind of cool.

[Justin Andrews]

That is cool.

[Adam Schafer]

What sucks though about that, Sal, I'll tell you right now, is that that will. Will last for a very short period of time because then it'll become a race to the bottom. Yeah. And it'll.

[Justin Andrews]

Which the insurance companies will catch wind

[Adam Schafer]

and I mean even that will be. That won't be that bad because it's probably not gonna be a high payout for those cars and stuff like that.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

Plus insurance is probably gonna be cheap because they're not gonna get many accidents.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you'll have. You'll have big umbrella insurance policies where you'll basically pay, you know, thousand or something else. But you'll have 10, 20 cars underneath the fleet or whatever because the likelihood of all of them getting crashes so unlikely. But what it'll do is that. That's his current theory right now at the rate it is. But then people just undercut that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like what? What stuff?

[Sal DeStefano]

Before you know it, they'll be competing.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, they'll be competing and then they'll.

[Sal DeStefano]

So there could be a short window.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, very short window. I mean it's like everything though, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Like so are you good? So here's a real question. Are you going to do it?

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, this is all you. I love stuff like this. I mean, I think that's. It interests me in marijuana. When I got into it was not. I was totally not a marijuana guy. I saw it early and I know that the best time to get in stuff like that is on the front. The front end when nobody wants to. They're scared, they're nervous, they don't know about it. A bunch of people prove the model, then everybody dives In.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then by the time you dive

[Justin Andrews]

in, you're just established.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. And then get your fleet. It's like, oh, cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it'd be like a window of like when they first go out by like two or three of them.

[Adam Schafer]

That's how. I mean, at the very least that would be cool. At the very least it would be cool to have one.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'd be down to do that.

[Adam Schafer]

Cars shuttle you around. Like if. If our vehicles that we. We all commute in that we all use paid for itself.

[Sal DeStefano]

So like we drive it here at work.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then all four of them are out. I mean, I mean, how cool would

[Justin Andrews]

that be by a parking lot?

[Adam Schafer]

How cool. Here's how I would do it. And it would be like. It would not be for a business. How cool would it be that we could supply every one of our employees a vehicle that pays for itself and that's part of a perk for working here. And who cares why?

[Sal DeStefano]

You're the business guy.

[Adam Schafer]

So we don't care. We don't care that it's making. It's so competitive. It doesn't make $30,000 everything. What it does at least do is it pays that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's also a write off because the company owns. That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

It covers. It covers that. And guess what? All of our employees have a vehicle

[Sal DeStefano]

supplied by the company and they can't be late.

[Justin Andrews]

Then we wrap them.

[Sal DeStefano]

We got your driver.

[Adam Schafer]

See where you're at. You're still parked in front of your house dog.

[Sal DeStefano]

I love that.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no. So I could. That would totally be my motivation because like what, what would it. It's not big enough business for us to distract us from the things that we do already. But if I could supply all of our employees with a car and for itself. What a cool perk. Oh yeah, right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I love that. I love that. But I thought that was really. Put that. Write that down.

[Adam Schafer]

Nonetheless, that's. It's cool that we're kind of going. Totally going that. Going that direction.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got. Okay, so I have. I'm going to change directions. I have the perfect skin stack from Caldera Lab. This is the stack right here.

[Adam Schafer]

Like if you want like the order of it too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

So besides just the serum, because I'm pretty sure that's like the best product.

[Sal DeStefano]

Love it.

[Adam Schafer]

I screw this up whenever I tell people. So I can't wait to hear the.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. So they have a lot of different products but just three products. And this is just a very effective, effective stack. You'll see A difference using this for sure. So you get the base layer, the moisturizer and the serum and you put them on in that order. Base layer first.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Then moisturizer. Then you add the serum. And look what's.

[Adam Schafer]

Doug, could you look up what's the name of the moisturizer? Because I, I. The base layer of the serum. I'm very familiar with the moisturizer. What's the name called the. That's not the great, is it?

[Doug]

They have the yeah, the great. Now again, I don't have any of the newer.

[Justin Andrews]

Where's the loofah fitting on this?

[Adam Schafer]

I have it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have.

[Adam Schafer]

So the great. I have in front of me right now it's called anti aging facial serum, Biomedic exome serum. This is the one that has the exomes in it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Exosomes is that. Would that be considered the moisture? I know what the base layer is. That's the one that comes in the screw top.

[Doug]

So the base layer is like a

[Sal DeStefano]

moisturizer cream, but there's another one that you do on also. So there's one that is. Looks like it's in a similar container, but it's called something else. Can you name all the products?

[Doug]

Yeah, let me. I'm trying to get to them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

So I'll tell you right now that what the serum is the good and the base layer is called base layer. So I know those two. What those two are. The moisturizer is the one that might

[Sal DeStefano]

be the great degree.

[Doug]

I think it might be the great as well.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it might be the great. So base layer, the great and the good.

[Adam Schafer]

That makes sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then you got it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got your combination.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, I do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

And watch what you're. What people tell you about your face. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So me, I just got to add the moisturizer in there because I do the base layer and then I normally do the serum when I get here. So like religiously. That's why I keep it here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like.

[Doug]

And then the clean slate, of course

[Sal DeStefano]

is the thing you use, you walk.

[Adam Schafer]

That's in my shower. Yeah. So I use that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got a couple compliments on my skin. I've gotten more than a couple. But recently, recently a couple of my skin.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you think that's because your skin looks so good or you have less hair?

[Sal DeStefano]

I have more space.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you got more forehead, dude. You have more slay. You have more skin showing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Damn, this is.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it's hard.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, listen, little by little, chick who gets the. The breast compliments because she's just shown

[Sal DeStefano]

more of it maybe, so just show more face.

[Justin Andrews]

He's got head cleavage.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did I tell you I wore a hat the other day for the first time? First time. You did, yeah. So sunny outside. It was really sunny. It was nice.

[Doug]

It was a beret or something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Huh?

[Doug]

A beret?

[Adam Schafer]

No, you would have to wear, like, a. Just. What are the other ones called? The. Like, the kangal. Kangal ones?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. No, no, I was outside. Cool. Jay. Dude, we. We bought, like, this teeter totter for the kids, so I was putting it together outside. It was warm. It was really nice outside, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

It's been so nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And so my wife is.

[Adam Schafer]

We laid out. We laid out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

So my wife comes out such like. So your head's. Your head's getting somebody. Oh, that happens now. Because I used to have hair, and I never got sunburned on my head, so I had to put a hat on, dude. And I don't like the way I look in hats. I don't have. What's your mold?

[Justin Andrews]

Right, because there's different version. Like, me and Adam have very different hat.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. I can't wear style. I wish I could wear those hats. I can't wear that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have to. Do the dad have to have a big square?

[Adam Schafer]

If I wear. If I wear that hat, I have to have to wear over my ears.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, my favorite.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm serious. I have a small head, so that's why the. I love dad hats.

[Justin Andrews]

I get that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because I. I wish I could wear those.

[Sal DeStefano]

You ever see Justin? So, you know, we do shoot sometimes. So Justin has to take off his hat and show off his luxurious hair, which he never shows.

[Adam Schafer]

It makes me angry.

[Justin Andrews]

I almost did my hair today just so you guys would stop.

[Sal DeStefano]

Whatever. Whatever, bro. Anyway, so he's always covering his hair, but he'll put his hat down, right? Because he's doing his hair. Yeah. And, bro, you know how you have the little snaps, right? It's like, on the last one.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bro, he's like two left.

[Adam Schafer]

No, he's not.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look, look, look.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, my God. Let me see that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Turn around. Oh, he's got two or three. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

If I put that on, bro, you're almost needing.

[Justin Andrews]

Most of them are one, though.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, my God. I just realized that hat, that's the old school prodigy collab.

[Justin Andrews]

We brought it back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow. You still have that?

[Justin Andrews]

I still have it. And, you know, it's funny inside. It's. This is Everett. We. Yeah, I kind of took it from him. But yeah, because mine, I wore. I remember I wore that to death, and it was just like, dude, trashed I.

[Adam Schafer]

That you guys probably don't remember that story. So I have several of these business stories behind the scenes that. That make me kind of chuckle inside sometimes of, like, people I try to do business with, like, collab with or do things. That's an example of one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I know. I really wanted this one to work. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And I remember. I really did too, way back when. And, you know, we've had some stuff with programs that we've done this. I won't. I won't throw people under the bus or. Or say names of all this stuff, but it always cracks me up when. Because we. We operate from a place. We talk about this all the time. The unfortunate part of the fitness space is there's such a scarcity mindset.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And we're always about helping and elevating other people and. And that these are examples of that. These were people. Like, I was coming from a place of, oh, man, we could grow together. Let's do some stuff and collab and everything like that. And that's one of many examples of somebody who's just like, oh, you know, it was competitive and thought that, like, you know, they didn't want to. They didn't want to do that because we'd be competing with each other. And like, we've had many times like this that some I've shared with you guys, some I haven't. And that's an example.

[Justin Andrews]

Scarcity mindset.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That. That company doesn't even exist anymore. You know what I'm saying? Like, never took off, never did anything. It's like, you idiot. Like, you know, saying like, that we

[Justin Andrews]

could have gone places.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, you could have done something really great. But that. That. What an example of, like, why, like, having a scarcity mindset. How crippling it can be in business.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

And, you know, I think I see. I've seen this so much in. In my lifetime of people that I think could have been really successful because they're talented in whatever craft or thing that they do, but because they operate from a place like that, everybody's gonna

[Sal DeStefano]

take it from me.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, then you're never going anywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

And. And so it. They. It just. It's. It's so unfortunate when you see that because that. That was a very talented person who early on in. In our journey would have made what a great person to. Could have done our apparel for so many years.

[Sal DeStefano]

Who.

[Adam Schafer]

God knows what our Our apparel line.

[Justin Andrews]

It'll look a lot better than it does.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. Our apparel line's always been an afterthought to us and we've. And yet there's people in our space far smaller in their network that have massive apparel lines because that's their passion.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They focus on.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they love it. They love doing that. And you know, well, we're going to

[Sal DeStefano]

come out soon, right, with our own line. Like each of us is going to have our own.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I think that's what we.

[Justin Andrews]

I think the idea of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I think one what. Which we thought would be. It's more fun than it is for business is this.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'll have one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. We all have our own style. And so it's like what I think we're gonna, we're gonna move to this, like, where we each get to give, you know, whoever's running the apparel. Hey, here's a shirt, pants and a hoodie or a hat that I like, you know, put. I like to make one for myself selfishly. And then the people that, you know, like, like, like your stuff, if they

[Justin Andrews]

like it, then cool.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So we'll see.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got. Speaking of companies, I have to mention this. The biggest shutdown or failure or whatever you want to call it in the gray market peptide space happened.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So Peptide Sciences.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, catch me up with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Peptide Sciences was the biggest research chemical, you know, what you would call gray market provider of peptides in the world. So they sold all the peptides for that. And the difference is, you know, with, with gray market, you're not going through a doctor, you're not going through FDA approved compounding pharmacies. You're getting what's called a research chemical. But people would, you know, get that anyway because you typically less expensive and very accessible. You mix it yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. It's pretty significantly inexpensive, which is why it blew up.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. And also you don't have to go through a doctor. You just go on the website.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Peptide Sciences just was the biggest. They're gone. Gone.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just done. And there's speculation as to why I have some inside, you know, scoop. I won't say online on air, but yeah, dude, that. So that's. And that's a huge vacuum.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like they, they were doing. They were doing something like, I think like 50 to $100 million, like insane amounts of revenue monthly and they're gone.

[Adam Schafer]

I. I mean, I feel, I feel really confident about the decision that we made to Go in the direction with, with Vitabella and their model. Yes, I think that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which by the way, the regulations on peptides have been lifted. So now when you go to mphormones.com all those older peptides that weren't available through a doctor are now available again. So Ibutamorin, you know, old school BPC157DSIP. Like all the ones that, that the compound pharmacies were told like you can't do this anymore, they can do it again.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, the best part about it is that not only is it regulated, but the, the model that they built. Very. I think the best example I have is like it's a, it's a Costco model where it's like you pay a monthly membership and you know, if your guy covers your testosterone. Yeah, it covers your testosterone. It built it. And your quarterly appointments with your medical professional. So you get a, you get, you get basically quarterly with meetings with a medical professional who's going to go over your blood work, monitor all that stuff with you. Hormones are include. Your testosterone is included. If you're not a testosterone, if you're not using testosterone, then you can go the B vitamin route.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, B vitamin or enclomophine.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh. Or enclomiphene. And so, and then, and then if you want peptides, you're getting them at wholesale prices that are regulated. So like, I mean I do think it's the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

The way that is like the future of the totally the companies that will stay around and be. And then also from a service point for us because that was the big, the big fix was trying to fix that part. Like we've gone through the process of what it was like when we had incredible over the top service but then couldn't service a lot of people. Then we got a company that could service a ton of people but then the customer service dropped. And I think that the way Vita Bella is modeled is the best of both. Yeah, the best of both. And so, you know, if you don't know that it's all set up.

[Sal DeStefano]

We've.

[Adam Schafer]

It's connected to our mphormones.com link. You can go straight to it. But definitely I think the way the

[Sal DeStefano]

future is for this element. T is an electrolyte powder that you add to your water. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar and it's got a thousand milligrams of sodium. That's a good thing. If you use electrolytes, you need the sodium. Most electrolyte powder is too low to even make a difference. Not element it's 1000 milligrams. It tastes great. No calories. Fuel your workouts. Get better pumps, better clarity, especially if you eat a low carb diet or you like to work in the sun or you work out real hard like you probably do. Go check them out. Go to drinklmnt.com mindpump on that link. You'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink. Mix flavors with any purchase. Back to the show.

[Doug]

First question is from JC truckingut. What. What would be a good program for blue collar workers who work 6am to 5pm how much should we be eating?

[Sal DeStefano]

So blue collar workers are interesting because typically when you work with somebody, one of the strategies increase activity.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Get them to move more.

[Adam Schafer]

But they're already pretty active.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're pretty active. You're moving a lot. So having them track steps, I'm not going to do that. Not to mention the activity so high that too much stress from a workout program, it's kind of easy to do. So I actually, this was a challenge for me early on. I get blue collar workers and I kind of had to figure out what was the appropriate amount of strength training to get them results. Well, it's actually very little.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, especially considering that type of person tends to be like tough. Right. And so they can handle. Yep, they can handle a lot. And so you think that, okay, I'm gonna throw.

[Justin Andrews]

They expect an intense throw work.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. And, and the opposite is kind of true. Like moderate intensity. A lower volume program tends to work much better. And so I think right away, like Maps 15 protocol for them, perfect is probably the perfect balance.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or grade eight. Grade eight would be great. Someone like this.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Depending again on, on what you do for work, like how much heavy lifting you do and all that. Like you got to factor in.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, when this first occurred to me, it was, it wasn't because we weren't necessarily seeing results. It was because they'd come back to me and be like, sal, I couldn't work that well. The day after, I was too sore. And it really made it hard for me to do my job. And so I had to scale it back so they could go back to work the next day. Because your legs get real sore and you work a desk job, how do

[Justin Andrews]

they recover right back to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. So I would scale it way down and boom, we started seeing great results. Now, as far as eating is concerned, blue collar workers diets are notoriously bad. Now, most people's diets are pretty bad, but blue collar workers are really bad. They have.

[Justin Andrews]

Based on convenience. Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Convenience. It's what's easy, what's fast. There's food trucks. Literally, I would tell them, especially because they're activity, I say eat as much as you want. Just stick to whole natural foods and you're good. And that was always the recipe for success.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, we just had a blue collar worker this week that has struggled with weight loss, had most of his lifting career. And I'm very familiar with lifting. And that was like, our advice was. And I took it a step further and talked about, you know, on your off day, prepping a lot of meat and rice. So you have that access to. Because that's, that's what happens is you, you're on the go, you're working hard, you haven't eaten in five, six hours, you get a break. Finally you don't have anything prepared. So it's like burrito truck or something, you know, something like that. That's fast.

[Justin Andrews]

Bring a cooler.

[Adam Schafer]

So yeah, being prepared. And, and again, like I, you don't even have. I don't even have to take this person and go like, oh, you have to eat these types of meats, like dude, tri tip, ribeye, ground beef, fish, chicken thighs, whatever you like with white rice and eat it when you're hungry. You don't have to over complicate this. But, but prepare that and have it ready for you and make those choices.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the other thing is what they drink. Soda was super prevalent.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, soda or beer, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So it's like just drink water, whole natural foods, eat as much as you want. Don't worry about increasing activity. You're already doing plenty, you know, maps, grade 8 or mass 15, and you're gonna get great results.

[Doug]

Next question is from Kathy Steinhild. You guys talk a lot about. He's sorry, you guys don't talk a lot about drop sets much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why? It's a super advanced intensity technique. Bodybuilders love drop sets. But for most people it's just, not only is it not necessary, it's out. It's actually counterproductive.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. I was so, you know, I picked this question because I think it, it's good for us to have this discussion of like, why. Because there's a lot of things we don't talk about. A lot of different techniques.

[Sal DeStefano]

Talk about partials and force reps. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Cluster sets a lot and things like that. And it's like in the context of the things that really move the needle for 99 of the population, it's. It's it's, it's damn near irrelevant. Like, it's just not. It's of all the levers I could pull to help somebody through a plateau or get them to see better results, it's just not there. Does it mean that I don't do drop sets? Yeah, I use drop sets. I can do trouble, it's just this. But I'm not doing drop sets thinking like, oh, this is going to get an extra inch on my biceps this week.

[Justin Andrews]

Or fun.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's, it's literally, it's a novelty for me. It's like, oh, I haven't done this thing in a long time. I like doing it, I'm gonna do it. But it's not how it gets sold in magazines and in the, in the controlled study. Right. So they, they like to take examples of something like this and they control it in a six week study and they go, oh, and group A, that did traditional sets compared to group B, who did some drop sets in there, saw an increase in this. And it's just like, that doesn't tell the whole story of really how valuable it is. It's really more the, the novelty stimulus of it that they get the most benefits that wears off after four to six weeks of them doing it consistently. And so it's just, it's just a small thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is. And I'll, I'll say this, even at my most consistent, best rested, best, you know, diet, best recovery, I would do a drop set once a month. Like this is what it would look like in my routine. And it would be literally like, I think I'm gonna do drop set today. And I'll do it for laterals or curls or something else. By the way, a drop set is when you do as many reps as you can, take some weight off and then squeeze out some more reps and do it again. And you repeat that like three or four times. Yeah, but even bodybuilders, they're not doing drop sets all the time. Bodybuilders are doing them like very infrequently as a way to introduce novelty or spice things.

[Adam Schafer]

And they're also such a terrible example to use because of how, how many of us are enhanced. It's just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, bodybuilding.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's just you can get away with that type of intensity. Yep, that. And so if you're somebody who, like you said, is well fed, well rested, had a good, good balance of routine volume and you occasionally do the drop set could be incredible for you. But if you were like, I was When I was in my, you know, late teens and early twenties and was introduced to this, it became like the thing I did in every workout, you know what I'm saying? And there's just over application.

[Sal DeStefano]

You would have got better results if you did it.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. And so that's why you don't hear us talk that much about it. It.

[Doug]

Next question is from Karan Singh. 19. What does strength maintenance while building endurance, stamina and V2 max look like once you focused on strength for two or three years?

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so the question is, essentially, I want to build my endurance, my stamina, my V2 max, but I don't want to lose any strength. Well, here's the deal. You're probably going to lose some strength regardless. Okay? So, so maximal strength, maximal stamina, they tend to take away from each other. So maximal. Now some stamina, some strength, like, they're totally fine. But if you're like really pushing to gain endurance and stamina, you're gonna see buckets. You're gonna see your strength go down. That being said, the amount of strength training required to try to maintain what you've built is very little.

[Justin Andrews]

Very little.

[Sal DeStefano]

So especially if you're adding other style, other training to your routine. So let's say typically you do three or four days a week of strength training now you're going to move more towards endurance. One day a week of, you know, strength training will be enough to maintain what you're going to maintain by chasing those other things.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's, I would say one and two days of straight training and then one to two days of you pushing stamina, endurance, VO2 max type stuff. And what's cool about VO2 max is you can manipulate that in a week.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so if you want to, meaning you can improve that within a week's time. So getting, getting pretty good endurance, pretty good stamina, and VO improving VO 2 max. You can get that relatively quick if you haven't trained for that and you could just. And, but the mistake that people make is they pile it on top of their strength training they've been doing for two or three years. So whatever that, that, that number was that you just mentioned, like, if you're training four days a week of strength training, like a full hour, I probably wouldn't recommend like really pushing the endurance down. So I'd scale back one to two days. Replace those one to two days now with training for endurance, and you'll get the best of both worlds. You'll, you'll keep most of your muscle, you'll Lose a little bit of strength. Not a lot. You'll look awesome because you'll keep most of the muscle on your body, but you. You should predict that you're going to lose a little bit, but you'll definitely gain that endurance. And then it happens so fast that you can course correct after two or three weeks. Two or three weeks of, like, stamina endurance training. You're gonna get a lot in that short period of time. And if you don't like the way you look and you want to go back to going more, more focused on strength, then you go back to strength.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's the thing. And you can undulate them, too. So it's like one of those things when you feel, whenever you feel like a deficit in something that you want to improve, you can focus on that, you know, for a few months. It's not going to completely hinder you and all those other metrics.

[Doug]

Next question is from James Mullen.

[Adam Schafer]

Art.

[Doug]

When I do front arms.

[Justin Andrews]

Sorry.

[Doug]

When I do front squats with my arms crossed, by the time I'm done, my biceps feel like they're going to explode. Is that normal or is my form out of whack?

[Sal DeStefano]

It sounds to me like you're really squeezing and holding onto the bar for dear life. To try to prevent the bar from

[Adam Schafer]

sliding down, you should be resting up on your shoulders.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So you probably need to lift your elbows higher. So as you squat, you want to lift your elbows as high as you can so the bar doesn't want to roll forward. Sometimes people will drop their elbows as they squat down. Yeah. And it's like they're trying to hold it up with their hands. You shouldn't feel like you're having to hold it up with your hands.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

It should feel like you lift your elbows up and it sits bouncing on

[Adam Schafer]

your upper chest and your. Your anterior delt.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You should feel it balanced balancing on your shoulder caps and. And that. And that is from the elbows driving up. If it's coming down across your. Your arms, you. The. The bar is not in the right placement. You know, someone like this, too. Maybe better way to do it than the arms crossed. Is the, the two.

[Sal DeStefano]

Two, you know, towels or straight or wrist straps.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Wrist straps or two towels wrapped around. And then holding it like that around.

[Justin Andrews]

You can just make fist and hold them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but really, I mean, I used to tell. When I used to train my clients with this, I would say as you squat, lift your elbows. Because as you squat, your elbows might be in a nice position. But when you squat, your upper body tends to bend forward a little bit. So you have to lift your elbows even.

[Adam Schafer]

I usually say lead with your. I used to say lead with your elbows as you drive out of the squat. Lead up, up with your elbows. Keeps your chest up high and then keeps those elbows from dipping because it's natural.

[Sal DeStefano]

They have a. There's this interesting piece of exercise that's like a really inexpensive piece of extra size equipment. I think it was called a, either a stingray or manta Ray. One of them was for a back squat. Didn't like it. But one for the front squat's pretty cool. You put it on your shoulders. It sat across it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it sort of sits in that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And it was actually pretty cool.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean I feel like the, what's the, what's the other one called with a bit with the big pads inside that feels you hit it like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, the squat with the safety spark.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. It's not a farmer squat.

[Sal DeStefano]

What is, what are those?

[Justin Andrews]

What are those?

[Adam Schafer]

Cole, where we, we have one with the two. You get. The handles are right here.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah. Safety bar.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is a safety bar.

[Adam Schafer]

Safety bar, yeah. So the big, the big safety bar hits like a front squat. Oh yeah, yeah. If you squat and if you ever Yolk bar. So if you, if you, if you squat with that, that squat bar. If it's. It's like. So when I, so a lot of times when I want to do front squats and I'm not in the mood to hold the bar across, I'll just use that. And so it'll, it'll target your quads very similar to a front squat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If you're. Your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way you body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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