2821: If You're Not Doing THIS You're Leaving Gains On The Table

Summary

Mind Pump Podcast 2821:

"If You're Not Doing THIS You're Leaving Gains On The Table"
March 25, 2026 — Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode centers on a powerful but often overlooked truth in fitness: if you’re only strength training, you might be leaving significant muscle and performance gains on the table. The hosts dive into why incorporating other forms of exercise—like cardio, mobility work, sauna use, and even modalities like Pilates—can not only augment strength training but may be the missing link for continued progress. The team tackles myths, shares nuanced programming advice, and fields live caller questions on weight loss, injury recovery, pain, and optimizing fitness at any age.

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MAIN THEMES & TAKEAWAYS

• Building muscle and health isn’t just about lifting weights.
• Strategic cardio, mobility work, and other modalities can unlock plateaus and enhance results.
• Flexibility and individualization in training yield better, longer-lasting gains.
• Nutrition and programming tweaks must fit your lifestyle for true sustainability.

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DETAILED HIGHLIGHTS & INSIGHTS

1. You’re Leaving Gains on the Table If You Only Lift Weights

[04:05 - 14:09]

• Sal initiates the discussion by asserting strength training is the most effective for building muscle. However, “you’re leaving gains on the table if that's all you do.”
• Other forms of exercise—like moderate cardio, mobility/flexibility training, and sauna use—can be leveraged to support muscle building:
  • Cardio (in moderation): Improves health, increases capillary density, helps with recovery, and augments your “gas tank” in strength work.
    • Sal: “A little bit of cardio… I noticed the benefit in the strength training. Now I didn’t have to rest as long. I felt like I could push harder in my sets.” [07:00]
    • Adam: “If I’m doing legs and what’s limiting me is my heart rate, not my quads, that’s when I know I need some cardio.” [09:19]
  • Mobility / Flexibility: Dedicating time to mobility or deep stretching can unlock joint ranges, allowing for more effective strength training and muscle growth.
    • Sal: “When I devote one day a week to deep stretching, my strength training is better because my range of motion is better.” [12:54]
  • Sauna Use: Post-workout sauna use can boost VO2 max, aiding recovery and performance.
    • Sal: “It’s a hack… studies will show that sauna use post-exercise boosts endurance and VO2 max more than if you didn’t.” [16:54]

Memorable quote:
— Sal: "There are little hacks. Cardio will get you stamina faster…and mobility training or something like Yin yoga is often better at increasing ranges of motion in a shorter period of time." [14:09]

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2. The Nuance of Programming: It’s the “Delicate Dance”

[10:54 - 23:10]

• Cardio/other modalities are tools to bring in strategically; not all the time, and not at the expense of your main goal (usually strength).
  • Adam: “Cardio is an intermittent tool that I pull in and out of my routine based on what I notice in my strength training.” [11:41]
  • Sal: “Most of the time when we’re communicating, it’s to average people with limited gym time. For most, prioritize strength training. But die-hards may be leaving progress on the table by doing nothing else.” [12:18]
• Individualization matters: In coaching, they blend the modalities a client loves with what best achieves their unique goal.
  • Adam: “If you love Pilates but want a better butt or shoulders, the prescription is two days full body strength, one day Pilates, and some walking. Use the right tool for your goal.” [21:36]

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3. The Role of Lifestyle, Community, and Stress

[24:00 - 43:54]

• The discussion pivots to lifestyle factors, community, and chronic stress.
• Sal shares a study: Regular fish oil supplementation (EPA/DHA) improved stress, sleep, and mood in people facing psychological distress. [24:00]
• Chronic stress today is different—persistent, low-level, and often linked to lack of community.
  • Sal: “We pursue relationships that don’t require responsibility… We live among strangers.” [28:18]
  • Adam: “Social media is the junk food of connection; personal connection is like slow-cooked real food.” [30:39]
• They reflect on how real community and purposeful connection can buffer stress and enhance resilience.

Memorable quote:
— Adam: “You could be kind of an okay trainer, but if you’re likable, people keep coming back because most people need community as much as they need a workout program.” [32:47]

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4. Listener Q&A & Live Coaching

Caller 1: Andy – Overweight, Blue-Collar Worker (Plumber)

[63:08 - 73:10]

• Challenge: Overwhelmed about weight loss, very active at work, inconsistent with diet.
• Advice: Keep it simple. Just eliminate fast food/processed food, eat home-cooked whole foods. Prep meals (grill meat, rice, potatoes) so you’re not caught without food; this alone (plus minimal strength training) could see 15-20 lbs lost.
• Key tip: “Don’t let yourself go too long between meals—that’s when cravings strike. If you just stick to this, you’ll get to a healthy body fat level without ever feeling like you’re starving.” —Sal [69:33]

Caller 2: Lipcho – Knee/Ankle Injury Long-Term Rehab (North Macedonia)

[73:09 - 79:28]

• Challenge: Long-term mobility deficits post-injury, pain on squats, uneven legs.
• Advice: Stay unilateral (MAP Symmetry, skip bilateral phase for now, extend isometrics), add foot-specific mobility from MAPS Prime Pro, and trust the process—improvements take time but ARE happening.
• Notable support: The team lauds his commitment and knowledge, recommends sharing progress in a few months.
• Bonus: Advice for his elderly mother with osteoporosis—MAPS Starter, supervised slow, strength-focused movement and higher protein.

Caller 3: Mario – Police Officer, Post-Labrum Surgery

[86:26 - 89:46]

• Challenge: Recovering from shoulder surgery, wants best strategy to regain lost strength and size.
• Advice: MAP Symmetry (full version). Focus on weak arm dictating load, skip bilateral phase at first. Consider BPC-157/peptides (if prescribed) for healing (offered MP Hormones for support).
• Key principle: “With good exercise and smart rehab, you often recover much faster than the doctor predicts. But you must be careful." —Sal

Caller 4: Marta – 60, Transforming After Menopause

[91:33 - 105:35]

• Challenge: New to lifting, in great shape for age after major lifestyle change, wants to do “the least necessary” to succeed.
• Advice: The hosts say her routine is “perfect.” She should gradually eat more (focus on protein and up calories) to enable further strength/muscle gains and flexibility as she ages.
• Practical tweak: Just increase meat portions at each meal.
• Big takeaway: If you build your “base,” you can maintain with minimal work and maximize your health span.

Memorable quote:
— Sal: “You’re a great testimony for everything we talk about. She called in with a perfect prescription—doing less, eating more, and getting better results at 60 than ever before.” [105:46]

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OTHER NOTABLE MOMENTS & QUOTES

• On Pilates application: Useful for hypermobile clients to build end-range stability. [18:30]
• On deep tissue massage: Benefits likely from improved recruitment and range, not ‘fascia stretching.’ [14:09]
• On modern stress: “Social media is the junk food of connection.” —Adam [30:39]
• Animal trivia banter: Hippos are 5% body fat, blue whales ejaculate up to 40 gallons at once—just classic Mind Pump humor. [49:49, 50:29]
• On community: “Gyms are going to be a great place to find it, where you have great culture.” —Sal [34:39]

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• [04:05] If you only lift, you’re leaving gains on the table.
• [07:00] How cardio augments muscle and strength.
• [12:54] The hidden value of mobility/flexibility work.
• [16:54] The “hack” of sauna work for recovery and VO2 max.
• [24:00] Fish oil, lifestyle stress, and new data.
• [28:18] Modern relationships, community, and resilience.
• [63:08] Andy (Plumber) Call: Real-world weight loss sustainability.
• [73:09] Lipcho (Macedonia) Call: Rebuilding after injury.
• [86:26] Mario (Police) Call: Post-op return to strength.
• [91:33] Marta (60+): Maintenance, healthspan, and thriving post-menopause.

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CONCLUSION

Bottom line:
Strength training is king, but you’ll reach new heights by strategically integrating other modalities. Cardio (in moderation), flexibility/mobility, heat exposure, and individualized programming— along with whole food nutrition and community — are the “secret sauce” you’re probably missing. The journey to health and muscle is nuanced, requiring clear goals, flexibility, and the willingness to step beyond old dogma.

Notable Summing-Up Quote

Sal, [105:46]:
“She accidentally became a great testimony for everything we talk about… doing less, eating more, getting better results at 60 than ever before.”

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Want More?

• Find Mind Pump and the hosts on Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug
• Programs: mapsfitnessproducts.com
• Podcast website: mindpumppodcast.com

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[Summary presented in the candid, straight-talking spirit of Mind Pump]

Transcript

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[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

If you want to pump your body

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

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With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

and Justin Andrews, you just found the

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live callers. People called in, we got to coach them on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 58 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about muscle building and fat loss, personal training, current events, family life. It's always fun. By the way, if you want to be a caller, here's what you do. Submit your question to mplifecaller.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Kion. They make high quality supplements. Today we talked about their fish oil supplement. There was a study that showed that using fish oil regularly if you're under a lot of stress will significantly improve the symptoms of stress. This is from fish oil. This was a double blind, placebo controlled study that just got released. Anyway, Kion has great supplements which include fish oil. Go check them out. Go to getkeon.com that's G-E-T-K-I-O-N.com mindpump. That'll give you 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Troscriptions. This is medical grade supplements like methyl and blue. They have supplements for sleep, supplements for calm. This is again medical grade. This is like the highest quality stuff. You'll get pharmaceutical grade stuff. Go on their link, through our link and get yourself 10% off. Go to troscriptions.com that's T R O S C R I P T I o n s.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump to get that discount. We also have a brand new program bundle which includes Maps Symmetry, Maps prime, and the advanced training techniques guide. All of that together, over 50% off. 147 bucks. Head over to mapsmarch.com Here comes the show.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

T shirt time.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

And it's T shirt time.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Two winners this week. One for Apple podcasts, one for Facebook. The Apple podcast winner is tired of nicknames. And for Facebook, we have Devin Sullivan. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

All right, real quick.

[Podcast Host Doug]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head over to mypumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You want to build muscle. You want to speed up your metabolism, so you just lift weights. Here's the deal. You're leaving gains on the table if that's all you do. Go.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, okay.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You guys taking a guess where this is gonna go?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Nutrition?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Well, no, no, no, you're right, yes. Diet for sure. But I'm talking about other forms of exercise. Other forms of exercise that can really encourage or contribute to or foster the muscle building process.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Isometrics.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Strength training. I mean, sure, that or other forms of exercise. Think about this. So here's where this thought came from. Right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

There's lots of different ways to exercise and they're all great for specific goals or adaptations. And the best form of exercise for building muscles is strength training. Like period, end of story. Nothing comes close. Obviously, I don't think I need to make that case. But can other forms of exercise be used in ways to encourage or add to the muscle building process?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Maybe not through the cardio, like in an indirect way.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Why not? Absolutely. Think about. Let's start there for a second. Because we've talked so much about how like really hard cardio training can send a competing signal, which is true. Especially long bouts of cardio. Like you run lots and lots of miles and you lift weights and your goal is to build maximum muscle. The cardio is going to. That much cardio is going to take away from the muscle building process. But can a little bit of cardio help you build muscle through the strength training process?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Well, that's the biggest argument that people try and counter when we talk about that. So there's plenty of science to support that. Building your cardiovascular gas tank feeds to your muscle building potential. So yeah, absolutely. There is some benefits to it. I guess the argument that I would continue to make that we've made on the show for a really long time is people tend to overdo that and underdo and leave basic strength training on the table. And there's, there's plenty to get from that. Well before you improve that. And so it's this kind of, I don't know, delicate dance when I have that conversation with somebody of like, what do I want you to focus on? Like, I mean, yet personally I do so that I was on the, the Dyna bike just the other day doing the intervals.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

The assault bike.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, the assault bike. Right. To, you know, try and build my gas tank a little bit, you know, only I only spent seven minutes on it or eight minutes on it. So I wasn't doing it for a long time.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Well, it's interesting about that too because you're doing like hit style.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

And so it is a bit like of a fast twitch, like acceleration kind of stimulus.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Which your muscles do tend to respond to. And it's, it's really, it's like the amount of time and duration and how you're like injecting that in your program. It really could then spark like a new stimulus for muscle.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

There's two ways that I can think about. One is through general health. If your health is not optimal and other forms of exercise may help with that. Then that can help you build more muscle, right? So if you're, if your cardiovascular health is compromised for sure, and all you do is lift a few days a week and you just, you just don't have good cardiovascular health, that becomes the limiting factor. Now that starts to limit your capacity to strength train and overall health not being so good. The other thing is, you know, cardiovascular activity increases capillary density and blood flow. And again, so long as it's not overdone, it can help. And look, I've experienced this myself, not so much recently, but in the past when I was real, like super, like hyper focused on building muscle. There was a point there where my stamina was so bad and doing a little bit of cardio. And I did a little bit of cardio because I noticed my. Just to tell you guys a specific story, it was years ago and we got into this competition at one of the gyms I was running. It was me, the fitness manager and one of the top trainers there. And the competition was so you can gain the most weight over. I don't remember how, what period of time. And so we just went on this huge competition, see how much weight we could put on the scale. So we were lifting and eating like idiots and just getting as big and puffy and we didn't care. Let's just see who can gain the most weight. And I remember one of my staff members was teased. We were all teasing each other and one of them was like, I bet you couldn't even do a stationary bike without getting gassed out. I'm like, yeah, right, dude. I got on the stationary bike and I gassed out. And I remember feeling like, oh, this isn't good. So I did a little bit of cardio for that. But then I noticed the benefit in the strength training. Now I didn't have to rest as long as in between sets. I felt like I could push harder in my sets. It became a limiting factor to, to what I was doing. And the little bit of cardio actually helped me build.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah, I noticed that the quality of two of the output of those types of exercises and performing it, when you do have that type of like cardiovascular stamina that you've built, it doesn't take much, but it does contribute towards a better outcome and quality of your workouts.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Well, I have a, I have a

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

really simple barometer that I've always used personally, which is when, when I'm. It never happens in upper body, but when I'm training lower body, if I'm training my legs and what's limiting me in the strain training routine is I'm gap my heart rate. Oh, yeah, my heart rate. I'm like, my heart rate is pounding so much from the set of squats or lunges or if I'm doing something back to back and it's not like, oh, the muscles are fatigued, which is what happens when I train my upper body. If I train my upper body, it's normally. Chest is on fire, palms like crazy. I need my.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You're not so gas.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

But I'm not gassed. I'm not like, like, I'll do some leg workouts where I'm like grabbing my. And same. So that's my barometer of like, okay, this is where I can use. I can introduce some of that to get, to get, get the gains out of that. Because that's my limiter. It's not my, my, my quads are, oh, we can't handle this anymore.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It's like my heart is going, we

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

can't handle this anymore.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And now the argument. We've actually joked about this in the past, but I actually have a really break it down. Like, the argument is, well, then just do practice higher reps and shorter rest periods for legs, which will build stamina. But I would, I would surmise that you probably are better off being more efficient with how you build the stamina through cardio and then going back to traditional strength training. Because you're right, Adam, you could do that and just push it and just be gassed out. But now your strength training is cardio for a while. Right. But what if instead, because VO2 max

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

or quickly quickly adapts.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It adapts very quickly. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So I could easily do a couple weeks of really short interval style training like you did on the assault bike. And very quickly, boom, I got the adaptation and my strength training. Strength training.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So. Okay, so I just want to make sure this is clear so that the audience doesn't think that you're flip flopping or were flip flopping. Because I, I still stand by the way we coach and, and talk to people in regards to this conversation. Yet admittedly, I tell you how I, how I'm using it right now. And so you absolutely could just stay in a 15 to 20 rep range of, you know, strength training anyway. And it'll. It will get there. You know what I'm saying? You'll get there. I think a hack.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Is for the next week or two, I get on that DynaBike for eight minute blasts.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And by week two, I'll already be able to handle some of that.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I noticed it in the first week.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, so. So, yes, absolutely. I think that's. But again, this is how I've always used cardio. To me, is this intermittent tool.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I rarely ever am. I, like, all the time doing it consistently. It's like I notice things in my strength training. Boom, I'm gonna do that. Oh, I've got something coming up where I'll need a little durance. Boom, I'm gonna add in there. Oh, I'm getting ready to get leaned out for the next six weeks. Final two weeks. I'm gonna use some cardio to, like, shred down. Like, I've always used cardio as this intermittent thing that I pull in and out of my routine based off of that. And so I still stand by the way we've communicated the podcast, because I think the way we've educated people that have been listening and trying to learn, I think it's the simpler approach. Well, like, what you're talking about is a little more nuanced and advanced to understand.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Well, I'm talking to the person that's already consistent. Lifting.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Has a little time.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Most of the time when we're communicating this, it's like average person has a tough time stringing two or three days a week in the gym. They don't have a lot of time. The number one goal is fat loss. What form of exercise should I do? You know, strength training. But there's a lot of people who strength train whose goal, and they do it consistently, and their goal is to build muscle, and because of that, they do nothing else. And in many cases, they may be leaving gains on the table because they're not doing other forms of exercise to augment the strength. Another example is like, flexibility, mobility, you know, range of motion. Style training.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Totally.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You know, like, if you lack range of motion or you're tight, which can happen. It can happen. If you strength train a particular way all the time. Could a modality like yin yoga, could that make you better at strength training? Definitely. Could a guy like me? For sure. When I devote one day a week to deep stretching and, let's say, the sauna, I notice my strength training is better because my range of motion is better and I feel better.

[Podcast Host Doug]

It's a good introduction, too, to those new ranges of motion before we really start loading it up. And I think that's. That's one of the big I. I guess, like, missteps. A lot of times it's like, we will promote the message of full range of motion, like squats, full range of motion exercises. And people have just done sort of that limited version, and it becomes an entirely new exercise. And you know, you can really, like, you do more harm than good if you're not like, really building that up and, you know, acquiring that type of strength support around your joints and that end range. But, like, if you start tapping into that, think about your muscles, like the potential you're leaving. How, how much percentage, 20, 30, like, also, you could gain by really venturing into that.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

To put it differently, for most people who are looking for health, longevity, fat loss, like the typical goals, and most people who are like, I'm only going to be able to work out a couple days a week, realistically, like, and I'm only going to pick one form of exercise. I'll. I'll stand by my guns and say strength training. But the different forms of exercise are better at certain types of adaptations. Can you get endurance with strength training? You can. Can you get more functional flexibility with strength training? You can. But are there other forms of exercise that specifically for those things are a little better? Like, yeah, cardio will get you stamina faster. And there are forms of mobility, specific mobility training, specific forms of yoga, if you want to have like a, like something that you can put a label, like, they're better at increasing ranges of motion in a shorter period of time. They're like little hacks. Right. So you know who's good at this? Jay Cutler was really good at as a bodybuilder. I mean, he was famous for getting. And he made this kind of a popular thing to get really deep tissue massage, like, painful deep tissue massage. And he said that this made him build more muscle because now they tried to explain it by saying, you're stretching the fascia and this. That's probably not what's happening. What probably is happening because deep tissue massage does help with recruitment patterns. It does help a range of motion. It's just a different, you know, application. He noticed it in his workouts and he got better pumps.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, I stand by that. The timing that I made my run doesn't work the same. I, I don't have the same success as I had without Katrina's dedication to massage me at that time.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I mean, that was a, that was an early period of mind pump, and she wasn't full time working for us. And so she had time to, to massage me almost daily and to, to get those massages. Like, I still had. It wasn't the, like, fufu like, no, no sports massage. Yeah. And obviously that's, that's one of her gifts. Right? That's what she's did. She did her whole career, whole family. Right. They had the only school in the Bay Area. Like she, they taught it. Like, so she's really good at what she does. Family is. And I, it. The way it sped up recovery was insane to me. And I have, and I have such a good gauge because I know it was like before, I know it was like during and I know it's like after of like what that feels like. And I've just never been able to. To handle that level of volume of training as I was able to handle while she was still doing it. And so, and I know there's, there's other factors that played a role too. Like my calories were much higher than what they were before too. That helps. It goes. But it, it's dramatically different. What, what it was, it wasn that, you know.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Another example is like sauna use. Studies will show that sauna use post exercise boosts endurance and VO2 max more than if you didn't do that form of exercise. So using a sauna post workout study studies on this are pretty interesting. Will boost VO2 max more than not doing the sauna. And the sauna is a hack in that sense because it's, it's not stressful on the body.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Is that just the core warming up as a signal that it's like emulating, you know, some kind of cardiovascular movement?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

A little bit. Yeah. A little bit. Vasodilation? Yes. It helps with endothelial health, increasing blood flow. The heat is a bit of, you know, stimulates, you know, heat shock proteins. I mean, we could try to break it down.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I can't wait till my son gets. My son's getting done literally right now.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Right now?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, as we speak.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Right now.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

It's getting all set up right now.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

No, it's awesome. I can't wait. It's awesome.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Are you good about using yours?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Are you? Not mine. My wife uses ours. Yeah. When I go to. When I go work out, I almost always use.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I'm surprised you're not religious without having it at your house.

[Podcast Host Doug]

I would.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

When I'm home, I'm home. And I don't want to like, like, you know, I'm not working out or taking time in the sauna or anything like that. So it's typically in the morning because I'll do it in the morning before I come here to work. And then so it's like three days a week or something like that.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense because you, you get your lift so early and then you're.

[Caller Lipcho]

That's it.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You're like, you're.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It's just a nice combination because I do it, you know, post workout.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Have you considered doing it with your, your one week on, one week off and like making that work?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I definitely do it more on the weeks I don't lift. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Because I feel like that would be a great.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I spend more time.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I spend more time in there. Another form of exercise, here's a good one that, because we've, we've kind of pooped on this one for a while, is Pilates. Is. Could I think of an application of Pilates that would help.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

With strength. I do. Because of its end range stability that it helps build. You know where Pilates might be a phenomenal application with strength training. This dawned on me earlier today as I was thinking about this segment of the podcast is because I'm thinking of all the different modalities of exercise. I'm like, would there be benefit to this? Would there be benefit to that?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Is there any place for this?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

One of the hardest clients, types of clients I ever trained ever, were people with hypermobility. Hypermobility is so different and a lot of it was hard because you have to train them in a counter way to what you normally would do. So some of hypermobility is like super crazy.

[Podcast Host Doug]

You limit their range.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You have to limit the range of motion. And because if you go to their full range of motion, injuries like they're going to get hurt. They're just lax. Everything's relaxed. Pilates with its short, you know, kind of pulsing. You know, exercises at end ranges of motion would be excellent for somebody with this hypermobility who's strength training, who finds that they get injured when they go ask the grass and squats and stuff like that.

[Podcast Host Doug]

You're really trying to condition to become more rigid.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right. In those ranges of motion. And it would be something because. Because with hypermobility, the limiting factor to strength gains for them oftentimes is pain. And it's tough because everything they see on, on social media is like, here's a full range of muscles.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I think, I think that there's, I think I can make an argument in a case for almost every modality.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You're exactly.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You're thinking about the reason why we. And I'm sure right now people are all scratching their heads because you're, you're saying all these positive things. You're saying all these things about cardio. The reason why we don't is the. The nuance that comes with that. Rarely do I meet somebody who I think has the perfect balance of Pilates to their strength training routine and everything else that they're doing. They're all in on Pilates and their goals. Or the person who utilizes Cardio to increase VO2 max so that they can then get more out of their workout is a cardio junkie. It's like. Or the, you know, so it's like. Or the person that is into yoga, talking about anomalies. They. They call themselves a yogi, and they do it three to five times a week and little to no strength training with traditional. Right. And so, you know, it's. It's. It's tough to. On a podcast without this specific. This. This is why if you. If you're really, always really interested in my opinion on our strong beliefs on all these different modalities that people ask direct questions like that we answer generally is listen to our live callers.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Because now we're talking to a specific.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, because we're talking. We just had a live caller the other day that I remember. I specifically remember telling her, like, oh, yeah, do your Pilates, because she loves Pilates, but also listens to the show and hears what we're talking about with strength training. So it was like, I think we were prescribed her two days a week of full body strength training, one day of her Pilates, and then encouraging walking the rest of the time. So, you know, when. When you have a client who's sitting across from you and they tell you they love this thing, or they feel so good when they do it. I would never tell them never do that. Or, oh, that sucks. Or it's terrible for you. It's like, especially.

[Podcast Host Doug]

They're moving their body. They enjoy it. It's like they're gonna repeat it.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's all factored in. But if that same person is like, I do Pilates three, four times a week, and my goal is to build. I want to build my butt. I want to build my butt, and I wish I had a little more shape to my shoulders. Like, I want to lose some body fat for that. Well, it's like, well, listen, when it comes to reducing body fat, sculpting your butt, sculpting your shoulders, that's not the best form.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Right?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

This doesn't mean that you have to get rid of it. But I'm saying that let's. Why don't we use the right tool for the thing that you're telling me about, we'll still include the thing that you love a lot because I don't want you to lose that. I think that's important. And so the prescription looks something like that. Two days a week, full body strength training. Do your one week of Pilates that you love to do. And it has lots of benefits. But now the majority of your work is utilizing the tool that's best suited for the things that you're telling me to. And I've been, you said back to me, my body's perfect. I don't want to change it. It looks exactly how I want. I love my body fat percentage way it is. And I really love doing Pilates. But I hear you guys talk shit about Pilates. Well, don't stop it, keep doing it. You have the, you have the aesthetics, you want, you feel good, you love doing the thing. But it's. People come to us with specific goals and then they, they want to shoehorn it into the, the class that they love or the modality that they enjoy. And it's like, okay, well, you got to pick and choose. Either do the thing that you'd love and just. And love it and enjoy the benefits that it gives you, or if you really want the thing that you're telling me and describing to me, this look or this performance or whatever it is, and then I tell you that's not the best tool for it. Don't get defensive, like I'm attacking your modality.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

This is the beauty, I think, in art of coaching and personal training is that there's lots of nuance in conversation and it's depending on the question. You can have a very specific question for a specific goal, and then I'm going to give you a specific answer. But it doesn't always apply to everybody because people have different goals, different personalities, and there's different applications. And so I just thought, you know, there's probably a segment of people listening who are super die hard strength training, which is great. That's me. Who might be leaving progress on the table because they're not using these other modalities to augment. And you could definitely augment strength training with other forms of exercise and find that strength training become far more effective. So I got a study for you guys on fish oil that Max Lugaver just posted.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, really?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Which is really cool.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So relatively new or what new one? Okay.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

A new random, randomized double blind trial found that taking Omega 3s daily for three months significantly improved stress, anxiety, depression, sleep quality, and Everyday memory in adults with psychological distress. So people who are stressed, who have a lot of stress in their life, either due to work or sleep issues or kids or whatever, taking a daily intervention, 500 milligrams of EPA, 250 milligrams of DHA improved nearly every psychological measure that the researchers tested.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Interesting.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Just a wonderful, inexpensive, healthy supplement that you can take that will help your brain. By the way, this also, it's also great for your blood lipids. It's great for muscle function, overall health, longevity. It's like one of those, one of those things that's probably for most people, I would say. It's a, it's. It's in the top. It's in the top 10 for sure.

[Podcast Host Doug]

A lot of people are deficient.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Well, it seems like we're, we're moving more and more in that direction with the, the type of stress that people deal with. It's so funny how as a society we've, we've flipped in the last hundred years. We had, we were much More closer related 100 years ago to like, how we originally evolved, which is the lives.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Acute, like war. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is like crazy, right? Stuff like that. I mean, but today it's not like that. It's political drama and just staring at your screen and intaking all this negativity and political divisiveness. Like, it's this low level chronic stress all day, all the time that I think people don't perceive as bad because it's not as scary as a bomb's coming, you know, but it's more, it's consistent and all time.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It's so wild you're going there. So before I do, though, I want to recommend that people, because fish oil isn't all the same quality. Oftentimes it's rancid. It's not high in, you know, the kions.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Kion's fine.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Is the best. They have really, really good fish oil. Super high quality. So people listening. Because you could go to the grocery

[Podcast Host Doug]

store and do that Pokemon test.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Dude. If it smells fishy and like, it's probably rancid and you can go to the grocery store and get like their brand if you buy official. Anyway. It's not the same. It's not the same. So. All right. It's wild that you just said that, Adam, because I'm, I, I was just listening to a book today that talked a little bit about that.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And I think what we've been doing is placing the blame on the Type of stress and not on something else that's been missing in our life that we used to have that made a. It made us so resilient. So it's not the stress as much which we're pointing to. You know, this low level, constant stress. People texting me, emailing me, I'm busy all the time, you know, versus back in the past. Like you said, you saw a line.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I know where you're going. I'm gonna, I'm gonna.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So it's, it's okay. So trip off this. So here's what led me down this rabbit hole. So there's this like, interesting phenomena that was studied with war veterans. So people would serve and when their time was up, they'd go home. And a significant percentage of them would reenlist to go back. And they were studying this. I'm like, what?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Why would you want to go back?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Why would you go back to living in the barracks, eating military food, potentially being in danger? Why would you trade being at home or being in society? Like, what's going on? And so what they found was it really had to do with. I'm going to loosely label it as community because they had community. So here, this is what I wrote. I literally. This is a quote from the book. Okay. And there was this researcher. I can't remember his name. I'm going to find his name for you guys. He's an American researcher, Japanese name. And I think I was telling you about it today, Doug, wasn't I giving you a little bit of his name? Yeah. So I'll get his name here in just a second. Here it is. His name is Shinya. Let me see. I can't remember. Shinya something. I'll find it. But anyway, he did a big study on this and this is a quote. He said that in modern societies, people now pursue what are called duty free relationships. So duty free relationships are like relationships that don't require a lot more.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Like an acquaintance.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It's like we're buddies, we're friends. It doesn't require a lot of responsibility and help. We're not like doing life together. It's just like, hey, what's going on? And then I'm isolated and that's it. Yes. So these relationships, and they also are pursuing subjective forms of well being which are based on things like self esteem and the verification of the individualized self. And they're discarding interpersonal forms of well being based on social support and community. So what they find in these studies is when you have real community and connection we're actually doing life with people where people know about your challenges. Not just the surface stuff. Like, we hang out on the weekend here and there, but, like, actually, like, we're. We're helping each other. We become very resilient. Like, super resilient. So you look like older societies were like, you know, World War II, you

[Podcast Host Doug]

know, London getting bombed, a lot more intensive relationship. For sure.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It takes more work.

[Podcast Host Doug]

It takes a lot more work, but the payout is much greater, I'm sure. And I've heard that from veterans that, you know, it's like they leave their brothers out there, and it's like they just long to be back with them. It's like a purpose that's not matched, you know, in civilian life.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. His name is Shigehiro Oishi, who wrote this, and he talks about how it's just kind of organized this way. And I think some people, A lot of people can kind of relate. Like, a lot of people live in neighborhoods, especially out here in California. Like, you don't really know your neighbors. You might say hi to them or whatever. Yeah. But back in the day, like, you did. Oh, yeah. Together. And if you're in. If in, your kids would go to the neighbor's house, and then you guys will help each other and someone's sick, and let's all bring them food. And now the drawback of that, I guess you could call a drawback, which is what we all run from, is like, they know your business, and, you know, you want to kind of be, like, left alone or whatever. I mean, people used to knock on people's doors without calling.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

They were just not. Hey, what are you doing? Come on. If someone knocks on your door now without calling, you're like, what the hell?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Like, don't answer the door. Nobody text going.

[Podcast Host Doug]

And borrow stuff from your refrigerator. Yeah, yeah, dude.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Always open. And so what he's saying is that modern societies, which is focused on individual pursuits and this kind of, like, individualized kind of society, he's like, we live in now. We live in. In societies where the majority of the people that you run into are strangers. Yeah, the vast majority are strangers.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I mean, social. Social media is like the junk food of connection.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You know, and. And personal connection with neighbors and relationships is like the slow way of cooking real food.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You know, it takes time. Yeah. It's work. It's effort. You know, it's like. But it's. It's way better when you do, you know, But I think that's just what has happened and it's so quick and easy to just. And it's funny because I think the, the younger gener grew up with it thinks that they're more connected because at the touch of their phone screen they can be talking to their friend who's a stayed away or at all times, they can be dming back and forth throughout the day and not see them. But there's, there's something that's missing. There's. Without that, that human touch. I mean I, I don't, I mean obviously we feel strongly about this. With the decision of the business in the last year of just. We're gonna, it's like there's gonna be a clear divide. There's gonna be people who gonna say just like there is with junk food, right. That are gonna be like, who cares? I like the way it tastes. It's easier. They don't know my drama, my personal issues. Like I don't care, I'm gonna, and they're gonna go all in on that direction and there'll be other people that value the whole foods and the slow cooking process and that and go like I want human connection and places I can do it the old fashioned way or get reconnected to a human. I'm going to. And I'm willing to even potentially pay more money for that and do that. And I think that we're heading very quickly in that direction where most things will be like, I mean we were talking off air and so curious to continue that conversation. Like, you know, we think that personal training happens to be one of those professions that you really value the interpersonal connection. Like in fact so much that you can be kind of an okay trainer and.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But people keep coming to you.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

But people keep coming to you and they love you. Right? And what I mean by okay and what I mean what I should. Let me define okay better because you're, you would still be a good trainer. You're just good in different way. Like you're not the, the most educated,

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

you don't have the best programming.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're not the most knowledgeable, but you're likable and, and people like coming to you and which is probably the number one trait a trainer can have is to be likable. You could have a decent business now. Throw in some experience and some real serious knowledge and you become extremely valuable. But what professions do you, what else do you see like that and what other ones do you not see? One of the things that we were talking about because I know your family is deeply in the finance World. It's like.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And they're so mad whenever.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I know they are, but it's just like, I'm with you on this. Like, I don't give a shit about my finance guy, so long as he brings me back more than 9%. You know, it's just. He could be. He could be a dick. He could be like, it's so impersonal to me. And. But it's like, yo, we did 13% last quarter. I'm like, all right, keep going, guy. You know, I'm saying, like, I don't care.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

The argument I made to them was I said, you know, when you work with a person, because they're like, oh, personal training, AI is going to be. And I said, listen, every time you work out with a trainer, you spend an hour with them. Every time you work out, every time you make a trade, your client isn't sitting with you hanging out for an hour. You might meet with them once a quarter. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

You might not do it in your sleep.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Well, listen, just. Just to play out their argument, I don't disagree that there'll be some people who are like, I just want the result.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Tell someone to check all my. All my Oura Ring, track all my data, tell me what I need to eat today, and that's all they want from it. But I'll tell you something right now, from someone who trained a lot of clients and been in this for a long time. 80% of the clients aren't that 80%. You felt more like a therapist and a friend.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And so, yeah, the 20%. There's the 20% that were like, yo, Adam, I got 18 weeks. We got to look like this. I got to do this. Tell me exactly what to do. Don't do it. That guy probably does pay for an AI. That's a quarter the price of what I would be charging to get. Lay out the perfect blueprint for what he's going to do, and he's going to fall through. But that is such a small percentage.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Of your client.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I'll argue this, that in a society that's. That's just running towards, you know, lack of community. Because where do people find community now? Right. Used to be your neighborhood, your church, what is your, like, city? You know, meetups or whatever. Yeah. Like, that doesn't really happen anymore. I believe gyms are going to be a great place to find it, where you have great culture, you know, everybody you work with, your trainer, anything. People are going to be. And because people are so still. They still want to look good.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

What was it?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

They still want to get fit. They're still going to go in that direction.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

What was it Arthur Brooks said the other day? I heard him say something. It was the first time I'd heard him say that. That what activism replaced. It was something around, huh.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Probably motherhood.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

No, it wasn't motherhood. It was something else. I wish I remember what I want to say. It was. It was either church. It was something more related to church community, that direction, because you have this sense of belonging towards a better, higher cause. And so that's like why there's such a high level of activism is because there was such a low level of that. I wish I remember, but the way he articulated was the first time I'd heard him say that, I'm like, oh, I gotta remember that. That was a really interesting conversation.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But it's really interesting again to look at, like, because I've already been kind of looking at this research and it just keeps confirming it, like, what is it about stress? Why are we suffering from all these effects of stress? Is it because we're bombarded with stress? And the old. I guess the old message was it's the type of stress and it never goes away. And I think that's part of it. But then you look at the data and you see some people are just really resilient. And it's like, why are they so resilient? And it's because they have tight community and a higher sense of purpose. And suddenly they can handle way more stress. And I gotta tell you this, my dad, the way he grew up, they didn't have social media, they didn't have constant reminders. But he didn't grow up without stress. I'm gonna tell you, right?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

They were poor.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

No, he was working since he was 9. Sometimes they didn't have food. Like, that's really deep stress up your

[Podcast Host Doug]

tolerance just like a muscle.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But he speaks so fondly about growing up because the community was really tight. You know, where he grew up was really tight. Everybody knew each other and were with each other all the time. And it just makes you super resilient. And I think that's the big.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Well, you also. There's other so many factors too. I shared a clip from that minimalist PODC about. Isn't it wild how we. We have the. The poorest person has more than what kings and queens had.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. Just because it didn't even exist. Right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And so, you know, and so the real secret is, is is appreciating and loving what you do have versus always focusing on what you don't have. And I think that the halves has happened so fast for us and for so long that, like, people have become numb to, like, going, like. Do you know that? Literally, just like, what, a few hundred years ago, having warm water when you wake up every morning before work was, like, mind blowing.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

The fact that we, like, in the world where that's still the case.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, like, that's crazy. That's crazy that almost. Almost everybody has that as like a base. A baseness, necessity thing that they have, which that would have been the ultimate luxury at one point is to have you turn on a faucet and instantly every. Because every morning you got to bathe or shower. Most people probably been doing that for a very long time. You just walk over and you at your. Your house that's so small or doesn't have this or doesn't have that only has one television in.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

My dad was a teenager, like 15, 16, and he at the time, he's like, deep into work. So he's like, full working whatever. His mom would warm up water and fill up a bathtub and just keep filling it with pots.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's how I used to do it

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

until it was warm. And then he jokes about it, but he goes, we would all use the same water, and we'd start with the baby, and we'd end with the dirtiest person, which typically was me or my dad because we were working. So it's like the baby, then the next person. The next person, then you end up. You wouldn't just dump the dirtiest because

[Podcast Host Doug]

he can't keep having warm community water.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

They can't keep having warm water. But yeah, it's really interesting because my friend Chuck really talks about this. He's good at this because he's done lots of mission work. And so he's gone places where he doesn't know anybody. And he talks about this, like, you gotta go do work. You gotta go and actually make friends. You have to go and be a part of a community. It doesn't just happen by accident. You have to go. And he actually talks about this. He's like, oh, yeah. I see some people that. I'm like, I want to be that person's friend. And I would, like, consciously put the effort in to be their friend and build community. Nobody really does that anymore. I think we just kind of like, accept the fall into it.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

We're also.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I mean, we're.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You're. You're talking from A place of being in the Silicon Valley, which is probably the worst.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

One of the worst.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because there's places in the. I mean, even in my little pocket.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Did you say. Who was it that, you know, that moved?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

My sister. My sister. My sister lives in the. The, like, deep part of our mid. Middle of Texas and out in the middle of nowhere. And like, the whole neighborhood every Friday is on the front lawn. Like, the whole neighborhood, they all barbecue and they got their little lawn chairs they fold out, and everyone's just. Kids are running around on their bikes all over the place. And that's like, every Friday. Like every Friday. It's a thing that everyone's doing and it's normal. And it's not like you needed an invite or their flyer goes out. So it's like, it's just expected. That feeds your soul.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And so there's communities like that. I mean, I. Like, I. I feel really cool about the place. I'm in a little cul de sac. A lot of people. All my neighbors are older, but they're all. They all go out and do their own yard, and they all know each other. My name. One of my neighbors has eggs. He comes over probably once every other week and drops off extra eggs to us. I got another neighbor that, you know, older. Anytime we see ambulance or anything coming in out there with his wife, one of us is over there asking if we can take someone. So there's a. There's that. I mean, that's what's also what drew me there. Like, so. Because you don't see that I also have lived in many houses before that, that I live around here. I live there. I live there. I remember our. Our. Our condo that Katrina and I lived in when we first got together or shortly after. I lived there for two and a half, three years, and I never met anybody, any neighbor next to me. And we were connect. Our homes were connected.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

How great. Like, we literally could walk outdoors and like, five feet away and, like, I didn't know their name. Who. Like, nothing.

[Podcast Host Doug]

It's like a total commuter mentality. Like, even the schools, like, when I was at San Jose State, it was like, you just show up, you do your thing, and you. Peace out. Yeah. And nobody's staying to hang out. And, like, the only ones are the artificially manufactured ones, like the fraternities and sororities. Like, that's the only way you could, like, build any kind of community there. That's just, like, kind of a conundrum here in this area.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I was thinking, too, while I was listening to this study. I was thinking of, like, my own tendency. And I think this is natural for people because I'm like, you know, why are we moving away from it? If it's so good for us, why did we move away from it? And I think it's because it takes work. It takes work. Like, to give you an example, if something's happening to me personally and I'm struggling. Right. And you come up to me when you guys come, hey, Sal, what's the matter? I don't wanna talk about it. Leave me alone. And I genuinely wanna be left alone.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But then as a good friend, you see something, you're gonna kind of corner me. No, no, man, you gotta talk about it, bro. Yeah, yeah. And I might be resistant and I be. But I don't wanna talk about it. But then afterwards, like, man, that felt good.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So I don't think it's just that, Sal. I also think that it falls in line with a lot of the other things I try and defend with where we're currently at. We haven't seen the fallout enough yet to course. Correct. So we're still in the middle. I mean, iPhone's been out for what, 20 years?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Has it been that long?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Really?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Is it 20?

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Actually, I think so, yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

We're coming decades already.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, but that's not a lot. That's not a. I mean, two.

[Podcast Host Doug]

First one.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Two decades is not a long time. First of all, it took the first five years before people started to really even adopt it. So it's really only 10, 15 years that everybody has kind of adopted it. Right. And social media came, what, maybe five, 10 years after that, so 15 years somewhere around there. So we. We're.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And we're.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And it's just now becoming a conversation, you know, I mean, to the point where when I was first bringing it up, just what, eight years ago teased, nobody knew about those books, no one was talking about that stuff. So the fallout hasn't come. We. And there's not enough communication and there's not enough to see, like, oh, wow, this shit's kind of messing us up. You extend that out another decade or two and it'll course correct. I think that people will be like, oh, wow. Like, and then.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And it starts starting to happen. I think Gen Z is kind of figuring it out a little bit with. If you see what kind of. They're trying.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I think so too.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I think they're all kind of like, okay, we need to, like, hang out with each other. Millennials really had the Worst because they grew up with it right in the middle.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. To the point where I remember hearing things that were like if you're, if you don't learn it or you don't figure it out, you'll be behind, you'll be left behind. And so it was this idea of like oh give your kid this, this tool right away so they could figure it out. Because that's everything's going to be and there was some truth to that. Everything is built off of that is surround around that and, and the kids that don't know it really inside and out probably are doing okay business wise related to that. But we didn't know what the ramifications of that were long term. And I think we're, we're starting to piece that together. I think so extended out and I bet you you see more and more. I agree. Families.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I was gonna ask you Adam, as you were talking you, you I remember what you were saying off air about the calm and sleep from transcriptions. Yes.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Dude.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So I, I tried it too. Have you tried it?

[Podcast Host Doug]

I haven't tried that. I've been doing the methyl and blue quite a bit though, bro.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Fire. Yeah, it's fire.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yes, yes.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I, I, it's actually really like really effective.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

What, what was it, what was the

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

name of so the sleep one is.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

No, no, the the Doctor who we had on oh God, I know he hasn't aired yet. Doug, I want to Doctor sure.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Let me get his name here.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Right here.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Because his episode hasn't aired.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

It's gonna Dr. Scott. Sure. I think.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yes. He pronounced his last name so Scott. It was Scott. That's what I was looking just his first sure.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Cher.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I'm not sure. So Dr. Sketcher.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, there he is the actor.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

He, he came on the show one was great interview. So look forward for the audience to hear that one.

[Podcast Host Doug]

That's a good information.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So good.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Y and set me up with a stack. He knows obviously I've been working on my sleep and so I've been sharing my sleep score. So people have been seeing. I've been first time in my life I've ever hit 90s. So I've had 290 now. So I've had a 90 to 92 legit. So I consistently am in the 80s which in the past never was hitting in the 80s. I still have my occasional if I had alcohol like four or five nights back and that disrupted my sleep. I had not the greatest score but man, that stack like you feel it like I, I, I'm such A fan of supplements that. You know me, I'm so skeptical. Yeah, yeah. Like. Like, there's not a lot of things where I'm like, oh, yeah, I feel that it's.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And it was measurable on your.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Very measurable.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So I did the. So the calm and the immune one have an extract or compound from cordyceps. It's good for immune system, but it also increases REM sleep. So I did just that. I think it was the mun. So it's not even supposed to make you sleepy. In fact, you could take it before you work out for athletic performance. You could also take it before bed because it boosts REM sleep. And I definitely wake up more rested.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So I took a half.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So his stuff is.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I took a half of the calm and it's called a torch. Right. I don't want to say tor. I want to say trochee. What is trochee? What does it mean?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You could do it sublingual. Yeah, you could do it.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Is that what that means? A trochee is something that dissolves in your.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But you could just swallow it too.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. So I. I took. But it hits faster if you. If you did.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And I. I. So I did like that. It does have a. I mean, it has, like a mouth numbing feel to it. So I took a half of the. The. The calm and then the sleep. I think I took a full. And yeah, within 30 minutes, I felt like, oh, yep. Yeah. Yeah, it was nice. So it was really nice. And I had a great. A good. Good sleep too. So I am. I. I'm definitely a fan of the product and a fan of him. I really enjoyed that podcast. So that was a really good one for sure.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I learned something really interesting the other day, and then I confirmed it with a friend of mine. So I was out to dinner with my friends Griffin and Katie, and they have a son who's autistic. So have you guys heard of autism fever?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

No.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Fever. No.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So parents will report this, and there's studies on it, and I confirmed it with them. So parents with children with autism will notice that when their kids get a high fever, their symptoms of autism, like, almost go away.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, interesting.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Wild.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Look it up. Doug, type in autism fever.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Never heard of this.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yes. And so I brought it up. We were at dinner, and they were talking about their kid. They're great, great parents. Such. They're awesome people. Griffin is like, bro. He's like one of these people I could talk to and get, like, super deep on pretty much any topic. He's like one of those guys that, like, will have a quote from a book for every conversation. He also loves conspiracy theories. So if you ever meet him. Justin?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh, he's crazy. He's on that level. But we're all talking and I'm like, oh, I read about something called autism fever. And his wife looks at me and she goes, oh, it's a real thing. She goes, when my son has a high fever, suddenly he's talkative. He's making eye contact. He's like, yeah. And so they don't know why. They don't know why or what's going on in the brain that causes that. But it's this. It's a. It's a documented phenomena. And I think it's so interesting. And I'm like, like, what is happening

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

during a fever that makes me towards. With an autistic kid, isn't the brain, like, hyperactive?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Good question. I don't know. I don't know. And autism is such a wide spectrum.

[Podcast Host Doug]

You wonder if it kind of shuts down a certain.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Like it down regulates or something like that because you're. You've got a high fever or something like that. Maybe some slows that down or.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I don't know, dude. I don't know.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I wish.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

I'm not able to cast right now, but recent research suggests fever causes immune cells to release molecules like IL17a, which interact with a specific brain region involved with social communication.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's what it is.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So you would. You would. You would think that you could take like a peptide or something that would release.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Well, I think that they're. Look, they're researching this.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And it could potentially lead to a treatment.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Sounds pretty promising.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It was just wild to meet someone and she's like, oh, she's like, that's crazy. She goes, he gets a high fever and suddenly he's like.

[Podcast Host Doug]

That's why.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It's like his symptoms are gone. How crazy.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Little nephew.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Way crazy. I can't imagine having an autistic kid and then all of a sudden that when.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. They're sick and then they're like.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

All of a sudden. Yeah. Like, awake can communicate better than.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Totally weird. Totally. I know. Interesting.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's super interesting. That's super fast.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

All right. Something else that's interesting that I learned about animals that Justin loves this stuff. Yeah. Dude. Hippos. You know, body fat percentage hippos have. Because I think they look like they're.

[Podcast Host Doug]

No, they're like. They're solid, muscular animals, bro.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

They're 5%.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

No, no. Yes, they are 5% body fat.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Over 65% of their body mass is muscle alone. Just for context, the average man is 40% lean muscle. So they've tons of muscle and they're big animals.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Well, I mean, they're literally the most vicious, violent animal and strong. Hit them against anything, they'll win.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So I'm like, yeah, but they look chubby. It's because most of their body fat is in their super thick hide. So you have really thick skin that protects them. Yeah, so they look kind of like they're, you know, like chubby animals. But. But it's not. I looked up a picture of a hippo skin peel.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Husky.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

They're just. Bro, it's just. They're. They're muscle machines. Yeah, they're super. If you look up a picture of a hippo thick, without their skin, like, it. Like, they could do like a drawing of one, bro. It looks like a. It's a tank, dude. I have some 5% body fat.

[Podcast Host Doug]

5%. Dude.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I've said animal news for Justin. You know how much sperm that a whale ejaculates?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Sperm is what's in the semen. I heard you say the story. It's disgusting.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

40 gallons whale. 40 gallons.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Dude, why does that make me vomit?

[Podcast Host Doug]

That's so much.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

50 gallon drum. That's crazy.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I wonder if it's a lot at once or it's a long time. What would your guess be?

[Podcast Host Doug]

I feel like this is a challenge.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You have to Google this.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Doug.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Look up blue whale ejaculate.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You think it's a. Do you think it's a long period of time or you think it's just a lot?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

No, I think it's a lot at one time. Yeah. Because a whale. It's a blue whale, bro. That's the biggest animal in history that we know of. And so a blue. A female blue whale, you know, it's probably got a big, you know, vagina.

[Podcast Host Doug]

I feel like that'd be like the worst episode of Fear Factor ever.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

This is. This is your best way of a blue whale.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Have you ever seen. You ever seen them talk about how big a blue whale penis is? It's gigantic, bro.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Okay, show up, Doug.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

How big?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Don't act like you never googled this. Yeah, he's acting like. I don't know where to search.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Is it the biggest of. Okay, all animals that probably.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

It's the biggest animal.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I don't know.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

So this is. Yeah, this is pretty interesting.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Blue.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Well, semen capacity is enormous with estimates reaching up to 475 gallon gallons when fully emptied. So they do not necessarily ejaculate all of it at once, thank goodness.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Oh, yeah. Anyway, yeah, as you say, that's disgusting.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

40 gallons of it.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

How big does you get it?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Like seawater in your mouth or.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Stop, Justin.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that was actually that. I.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

So, by the way, their penis is 2.8 meters long.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

How many feet is that? Because we don't.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

3. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

10, probably 10ft long.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

No, 10 footers between 8 and 10ft.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's how big their wing is.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So a meter is a little bit longer than a yard, which is 3ft, 2.8 by 3. Around 9 or 10ft.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Jeez.

[Caller Lipcho]

Wow.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah, that's a.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's a.

[Podcast Host Doug]

That's a mad hog right there.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Hey, are you. This weekend you had your first soccer game?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my son. Dude, it's the funniest, bro. Watching 5 year olds play soccer is.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Is hilarious.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Well, so my son, he's. He's so cute, right? He's. He's kind of like anxious or whatever, but he's doing it. And they start the game and he's running. Like, he's running, okay.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And he'll run towards the ball, but as soon as the ball gets close to him, he runs away. So. Yeah, dude. So. And it's funny too, because the ball getting near him and he'll look in another direction and just run. And I'm like, is he scared of, like, does he not know what to do? Is he, like, afraid to, like, engage?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So, like the whole game was him running around the ball and away from the ball. And then if the ball accidentally got close to him, he'd run in the other direction. And I'm like, the ball. Focus on the ball. Hit the ball. And he's just running around. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Cause you always see a cluster. Like, there's no actual positions at that level. Like, everybody's just, you know, moves with the ball wherever it goes.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

No, it's not like he's going around, bro.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It's not like he's like, you know, sometimes kids will go play in the grass. No, no, he's just. He's running, but he's just running.

[Podcast Host Doug]

That was Ethan. He was just like, like, ooh, a B. You know, Then he'd find a stick

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

and be like, get to the ball. It's just funny because I. I sent you guys a video. The ball comes and he just runs away. Runs, makes a big circle around and then comes back over here. Oh, ball's gonna be near me, walk around, around. And I'm like, get the ball, get the ball, get the ball. You know, and it's just. Yeah. And afterwards, you know, I don't want him to feel bad or anything. And so I'm like, hey. And so his mom's really good. Jessica's really good. Cause she's like. At first I was like, does he know?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah, maybe he's just not.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Maybe he doesn't know.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

He doesn't know.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But no, she called it. She called it. She says. I think he's. He doesn't. He's scared to engage with the ball because he doesn't want to be the one to do it or whatever.

[Podcast Host Doug]

The pressure of it.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I think that's what it is because he's. He's paying attention, but he's like. Like, he's. He's obviously avoiding.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, wait. Wait till you're kicking the ball. Wait till it unlocks for him because he's. He's that kid.

[Podcast Host Doug]

He.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So this is the same age. I don't know if you remember me telling the story on the podcast when I went and saw my godson play. He's the same age as Aurelius was, his first year of playing soccer. And I remember getting ready to go watch him, and I'm like, hey, you score a goal today? He's like, yeah, how many? And I'm like, oh, we're gonna do more. And I said, like, okay, how about three? He's like, how about five? He scored six goals. I was like, yeah, just a little. Same thing, though.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Just fast.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

But only he wasn't afraid to go into the ball. He just get out in front of all the kids. It was just like one goal after another. It was wild. I have a soccer story from with my son this past weekend, and just fricking broke my heart, dude. I'm like, of course this is. This is going to happen, right? So we're at a birthday party. There's a big birthday party. Like 70 people there, jumpy house, tons of kids all ages. And this is Max's best friend who loves sports. And they got two goal goals set up and this. And there's. There's kids there. It from their traveling. They had their traveling. They came straight from their traveling. Soccer.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It's like, serious.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. They're like, these kids are three years, four years older than him, and they're like. I mean, they're making moves and. And my son's, like, not interested. Like, he played in the jump house when it was just him and Julian. Then all these kids came, and then he's, like, coloring on the bench, and he's fine. Like, hey, you want to go to now? I'm good, dad. I'm doing my thing. And I'm like, okay. And so finally, after all, like, kind of the older kids were playing. Done playing soccer. They all went in the jumpy house, and then nobody was on the. On the lawn. I said, hey, do you want to go kick the soccer ball with daddy? And he's like, okay.

[Caller Marta]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I was like, oh, cool. So he. Get him. I get him out there, and we're kind of kicking around, and there's a kid in his. In his grade that's like. He's like this little, tiny, little, short kid, but he's like a phenom everyone talks about. He plays baseball, soccer, everything. He's like, really good. And he's like this little, short, little. He's smaller than Max. And so he comes running out. I'm like, okay, cool. The three of us. And Max is like, cool. Obviously, kid looks little on him. Let him. And so we're. We're playing it. Max is trying to get for me, and I kick it over to that kid. And so Max turns around, and that kid just plants and boom. And launches it straight into to Max's chest. Yeah, it's a soccer ball, but I mean, it was like a. It was. And I knew right away. And I'm like, like, oh, man. And I see my son. He turns around, and you could just tell he's trying not to cry. Everything in him and fight his emotions, and he just, like, head down, comes walking into me, and it's just.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And you.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And you can tell he's trying to fight back. Crying. He starts crying, and I'm like, dude, what's the chances of, like, I get him out there for like, two minutes.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And this is blasted.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And he gets blasted. Like, literally right after we started. Right after we started playing, I'm like, dude, I'm never gonna get this kid to play sports, dude, at the rate we're going, due to the luck that we're having. And you could tell he was like. I could tell. Like, he's. He was trying to control his emotions. And we sat down and I said, hey, man. I said, did that hurt or did it just scare you? And he's like, it scared me because it damaged soccer ball.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And as a kid, it was like an adult, but the kid did.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Plus when you're that little and something like that Happens, I'm sure. I don't know if you've seen this, but they get embarrassed.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You know, I mean, that's part of the tears too. Oh, I fell. Everybody saw me or whatever.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. So I was just like, oh, get him out there.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Poor buddy.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. The whole time all these big kids are playing, nobody gets hit with the ball. Nothing happens like that. Max goes out there the first, literally within two minutes. And the kid, it was like, I mean, the kid, great kick. I mean what, I mean, what a great kick. I mean he planted, put his foot right into that sucker and it was. Max was just in the wrong place and it just pelted him right in his chest and launched off of him.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh man.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Like, cuz sports themselves, they've been bringing so many different like, lessons and challenges. Like for me, like going revisiting this through my kids, it's so different. And you think it's going to be like a similar experience and like, you remember all the fond memories of like, where you got, you know, from all of those, you know, those hard things and, and struggles that you faced and all stuff. And, and even just like right when I think I'm like, oh dude, we're, we're getting it, you know, and like I got him in a new sport and like the very first, I think I might have told you guys, like, he scored like right away in lacrosse. And I was like, so pumped because I was like, I needed a win for him because he's been fighting me about this sport the whole time and it's like. And he's still like. And he, he keeps coming back and is like, like, I Dad, I don't like this. I don't like this sport. I don't like it. It's not a fit for me. And he's like. And I'm just like, oh. And I just had to like walk off and like trying to like really see, like, well, you know, is this, is this something that like, I need to like, you know, over ride his. His want to do it just so he gets the experience or, or like what. What is the replacement of her word? And so he actually. It was good. It was. He came back to me with like some options. He's like, here's actually what I would be interested. I, I love football. He's like, I love like flag football, but that's the only sport so far out of all of them we've tried that he's like stuck with. And then he was like, I really want to like ride my bike. And, like, you know, get competitive with that. And I really want to do Boy Scout. And I was just like, really? Like, I had no idea, you know, that was such a left field thing for me. But I'm like, well, that is actually kind of cool. You know, like, he can get into, like, really, like, learn how to build a fire and, like, getting like. And I've been wanting to do that. It's just, like. It's just so. It's hard, man, because you think, like, you know, this is, like, such a good base for him, and, like, this is going to be, like, the progression of how I'm gonna build off of this and, like, turn him into a super athlete. It's like, it keeps, like, blowing up in my face, you know?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I still think he's. This is what I think.

[Podcast Host Doug]

He's so good at it, too.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's why he's so good. He has such a good base. What you guys did with gymnastics. He's so gifted and talented in every sport he plays. He's just not interested in it. And he's still young. And you wait till he's in, like, high school. And, yeah, his boys and him are playing pickup basketball.

[Podcast Host Doug]

That's a factor.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yes, It's a total factor. He's still. And. And it's the same advice you guys give me with Max is like. And that's how it makes me chill out. It's like, okay, he's still young, and I was a. I was a late bloomer, and I didn't play a lot of sports till later. And so it's like, okay, you know, he'll just. I. I did think it was gonna be the friend thing. So, like, you. I could totally identify. Like, I thought this was gonna be the unlock. He'd play the sport, he'd be good at it, then he'd love it. It's like, I thought his two best friends who love sports, he would be like, okay, now I'll play. But he's still like, nah, color instead. So I'm just like, yeah, but I mean, it's. I. I remember long before any of this happened, I remember seeing in him that trait. And I remember telling Katrina, I'm like, oh, this is. So that was the first. And I don't know if you guys remember the first trait you saw on your kid that took you back to your deepest memory, but my deepest memory of a kid is remembering kids wanting me to do stuff and me being like, nah, I don't want it. And being like, not be convinced. Yeah, you could not convince. In fact, the more you tried, the more I would dig my heels. And like, no, I don't, I don't need to do. I don't want to do that.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Like, that's interesting.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then, then eventually maybe I came around and did some of those things, but it was always on my terms. It was like, okay, I'll try that. And I've been that way all the way through adulthood. And it's been, that's my.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And I think it's a good trait.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And I agreed. Right, Katrina? I both agree.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Especially for peer pressure and stuff. Yes.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Like, it's like he. And we've seen these things where that he said, like, I don't want to do this or I don't feel like this. And we just go, okay. We don't push it. And then all of a sudden he decides he wants to try it or he wants to do. And it's like so funny. It's like, it's got to be on his terms. So just let it be, you know?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

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[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Andy from Utah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

What's up, dude?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Andy?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

What's happening?

[Caller Andy]

What's up, guys?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Andy]

So I feel pretty overwhelmed when it comes to trying to lose weight. I've been trying to do it for a few years now. I'm a plumber and I work quite a few hours. I'm on my feet all the time and I don't have a lot of time. Also, I'm 5 10, I'm 300 pounds and last exit scan I did was like four years ago. I was about the same weight and everything and it showed up like 38 last time I checked. So, I mean, I, I have a background in lifting and stuff. You know, I did stuff in high school, but you know, I just, I, I have a hard time being consistent because of my job. I remember I, I've been listening to you guys for a little bit and I've searched quite a few of your guys's episodes and I remember Sal talking about specifically trying to work with, you know, blue collar guys and how you're trying not to over train because of how, you know, how active we tend to be. So I just don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. I mean, I understand to not eat a ton, you know, or something.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I don't know.

[Caller Andy]

I just don't know what to do.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Got you, dude. Yeah. So the workout part's the easy part here. I think Mass 15 would be your protocol for sure. You're so active. I, I'm not worried about making you more active, but a little bit of strength training, you know, one, two lifts a day. The great, great eight would even be awesome. Even more simple. I think that would be great for a guy like you. It's all diet. This is all diet. This is all a diet issue. The, the, the challenge is taking too many steps at once, which is where people screw up. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

One extreme to the other.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So it's like I'm going to fix my diet. I'm going to do this, that, this, that and the other and then it just doesn't stick.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Fizzles out.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So what have you tried in the past, diet wise?

[Caller Andy]

I mean, I've tried. Honestly, what I've done the most is just like intermittent fasting. And boy, you know, in the construction world we start at 6 and we don't eat lunch until about 12. So you know, I kind of got used to that, but I never really saw results, to be honest with you. That, yeah, that's all I've really ever done.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

There's no magic to fasting except for the guardrails that it provides with the eating window.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And a lot of times what it does is it creates a binge restrict type of relationship.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So it's like I don't eat till whatever, but then I just go for it and ate a lot or high calorie. So we got to start with just one step, Andy, and not do any other steps. Just one step. So I'll propose one to you. And I know you're on this show and all that, but I want you to be very honest if you think you can do it. Because we can't take a step that you don't think you can maintain because you're just going to set yourself up for failure. Right. So the one step I'll suggest is this. Just don't eat fast food or processed food. So, okay, just eat food that you made or that your wife made. Meal prep, whole natural food, chicken, meat, rice, potato, vegetables, fruit, and that's it. So don't eat processed food or fast food. Just start there. Does that sound somewhat realistic for you?

[Caller Andy]

It does, yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Do you grill? Do you grill at all?

[Caller Andy]

Yeah, yeah, every now and then.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Because I mean, one of the things that helps my clients that are like, you like and this helps me is how I prepare is whatever day off. I don't know if you have a traditional schedule or, you know, Saturday, Sundays are your days off or not, but whenever your day off is, that's my, that's my grill day. And I'm gonna grill, you know, four, four or five pounds of meat, chicken, steak, tri tip, whatever, whatever it is that I feel like. And then just a bulk rice, white rice, just tons of white rice and that you can do sweet potatoes and some other things like that to mix it up if you want. But I keep it really simple. White rice and, and I mix up the meat. So I have a little bit of something different and, and I have something prepared for me in, in my refrigerator and something I can take to, to work that right there and, and literally not even over complicating the portion size yet and what. And what types of meats. It's like grill whole whole foods, go grill meat and, and white rice and have that ready to eat and make that your choice when you're hungry to like Sal's point of just staying away from the, the eating out. The probably, you know, typical plumber construction burrito and like that. Like get away from, get away from that. Yeah, I know. So from. And, and you know, bust out your, your Tupperware of, you know, steak and rice and enjoy it.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You know, eat when you're hungry and until you're satisfied, stay away from sodas, stay away from, you know, eating out and processed food. That's it. Don't do anything else. And I'll tell you this, Andy, I could confidently say if you just did that with the lifting, with the lifting, you'll probably lose 15 to 20 pounds just by doing that. Eating until you're full consistency, you're not even going to feel like you're dieting. You're going to eat when you're hungry and just eat until you're full. Yeah. And that Alone will probably result.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And I'm going to add a layer to that to help because what will, when you'll know when it'll get hard is when you make the mistake of letting it go too long without eating. Then the cravings kick up. So make sure you've got stuff.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Don't skip any meal.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, don't skip meals. Don't stretch away. I'm super busy. I'll wait, you know, four hours. Because that's when the cravings kick up and that's when it makes it really hard to make that choice of that, that steak and rice, that chicken thighs and rice that you made for yourself, that you barbecue, that tastes pretty damn good anyways. But now you're like, oh my God,

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I want a cheeseburger.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I want a cheeseburger. Because your body feels. So be discipline yourself to try and have it ready for you somewhere with you. Whether it's in your cooler, on the go type of deal or it's, you know, when you get home right away, try not to let those hours go too far because it makes the craving piece that much more.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And like I said, I could, I could confidently say you'll just. From that alone, you'll probably see about 15 to 20 pound loss on the scale. Maybe more with a guy your size and as active as you are. But like, if I had to put money on it, I would say, yeah, 15 to 20 pounds without doing anything else, without trying to eat less, without trying to nothing. Just all you're doing is eating whole foods.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's what you'll see. Drop on the scale. And you'll also build muscle.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's what scale.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So that's you. You'll make a difference. I take, I mean, you do that, just that. And then we'll give you the next step. You call back in or you reach back out to us and then we'll just keep layering.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I'll tell you, I'll tell you this, if you just did that forever, I think you would eventually get your body fat down to below 20%. I don't think you'd ever have to do anything else. But you can call back if you want to keep taking more steps. I mean, it really is. That's that simple. Don't get creative or crazy with it. That's all your disciplines around that. If you think that's somewhat realistic, just do that.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

The hard. And listen, when it happens, if, and when it happens, which most likely will, you'll have a day or a step back or a mishap or you get back on weekend. Yeah. You didn't prep, you didn't prep your meals. Don't beat yourself up. Effort, you've, you've messed up, you know, whatever. It's like hey, one bad day back on the horse. But recognize that, that what made it challenging and why you messed up. And I'm willing to bet done this long enough. The thing that will mess you up is not having the meals ready and prepared for you. Because I ain't even telling you you can't have tri tip, you can't have chicken, you can't have steak ribeye. Enjoy that. That's all good food, bro. That was some with a cup of rice or some sweet potatoes yam. That's all good Barbie. Look, barbecue it up, use your favorite seasoning. All that stuff's all good. But eat whole foods and eat it when you're hungry. Don't wait six, eight hours between meals. And if you, if you can be consistent with that, what Sal's saying it will radically change. Just be consistent with it. And then when you have the day when you f up, recognize why you did because you probably didn't prepare, you didn't have your ready to go for yourself. It's okay. Tomorrow I'm making sure I do that and you get back on the horse and you do that and just watch how far that gets you.

[Caller Andy]

Yep, okay, sounds good. I appreciate it guys. Thanks so much.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You gotta do I'm send you the Great 8 program. That's your program. It looks like it's not a lot. You're gonna get strong on it, trust me. Yep, just follow that.

[Caller Andy]

Good deal. Well, thank you.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I mean it sounds people listening are like really? Is it that simple? Yeah, I mean, I mean here's the funny, here's the crazy thing. A guy like that who's already active. So remember this, the context here is he's active.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

People didn't know this. In his notes it says he does 20,000 steps.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So he's blue collar. So he's already active. So he's already way more active than the average person. So there's the context right there. Strength training. We're going to add a little bit because he wants to signal for building muscle. So just add a little bit so that all that in consideration if all he ever did for the rest of his life was nothing else aside from what we said. He's not tracking calories, he's not chasing this. He's not chasing, he's just eating when he's hungry. Just sticking to whole natural foods. He would eventually drop below 20% body fat and probably closer to 17% forever.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's a fit.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Competitors are built in real food.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's it. He would have to do nothing else.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And the great part about that, there's no, like, you have to eat this kind. It's not chicken breast and tilapia.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Podcast Host Doug]

We're not even telling them to eat all the vegetables.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Literally just that. But I'll tell you right now, what, where this gets hard, of course, is

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

you skip and then your cravings go up, and then your buddy's like, hey, we're gonna grab some.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Jack in the box.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You want something? Yeah. He just gets hyper focused on not letting more than 3, 4 hours go by before he's eaten again. Not let himself get like that. That what people, you know, quote unquote say. Starving, though you're not starving, but they feel like they're starving, that those cravings are kicking up.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's when it's so hard to eat that thing you made for yourself or that you eat yesterday. But if you eat just as you start to feel hungry and you make those choices, you'll trip yourself out.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Like, I'm full all the time. How am I losing weight?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Our next color is Lufto from North Macedonia.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's okay. That's got to be a first.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Exotic.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

It's got to be a first for over there.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude.

[Caller Lipcho]

Yeah, probably it's a first. I'm the first one.

[Caller Mario]

Yeah.

[Caller Lipcho]

I mean, since I've been watching you guys, I. Probably the first one.

[Caller Mario]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Lipcho]

Yeah. So I'm going to read from my email so that I go. I don't go too much astray, so. Hi, Tim. My name is Lipcho. I have issues with my knees since I don't know when. I have been trying to fix it and any help is appreciated. So a little backstory. When I was 19, I had an accident and my right leg was broken. Since then, I have had an ankle issue and never regained the full range of motion. Maybe some nerve numbness. And also, I presume my whole right leg mechanics have been off ever since. Ever since I found you guys in 2017 and got to know more through listening to your podcast. I started doing combat stretches, which kind of help with the range of motion, but haven't been consistent with them till lately. Have been testing my ankle mobility with a test that I saw from Squat University and have been doing combo stretches with a dumbbell on my knee to push the range of motion while doing them. I also feel some hip strain. I don't know if that is normal or not. And not sure whether I'm doing the stretches right since I started doing them more consistently. I feel like a numbness or strain on the outer side of the foot below the big bone. Don't know how it's called. I did map symmetry twice in a row. The first time without doing the last phase. Now in the last week of the last phase, actually that was last week before I send this email, while doing the program, I didn't feel much pain in my knee while doing any kind of squats. Maybe a little discomfort, but nothing drastic. Also I really focused on my right leg since it has less muscle than my left leg and cutting off some sets for my left leg, like maybe or two sets depending on which phase I was in. When doing Bulgarian squats, I can push more weight and feel no pain because I presumably I don't go below parallel, slightly below parallel. But when doing barbell squats and going for a full range of motion, I always have a huge pain in the knee and here cracking. Also I feel like on my left leg my quad is activating more than on my right. Even after the work the workout, my left leg muscles are sore and the right ones are kind of soarish. I lowered the weight and started doing squats with rubber bands around my knees to try and open up my hips. And also I did cave my knees caved a bit to see whether that would help, which it kind of did a bit. I don't feel any knee pain on a day to day basis. Only after doing parable squats and challenging the range of motion. And also as I mentioned, while doing the combat stretches more consistently with weight pushing the range of motion, I feel this numbness and strain on this I think like where the ankle area is probably. So yeah, any help would be appreciated.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Lu Cho, when you're doing the combat stretch, are you trying to use the muscles of your body to also get yourself in the position? In other words, are you doing it passively or when you get in, are you trying to pull your toes up? Are you trying to be active and

[Caller Lipcho]

connected pulling the toes up? And also I did kind of found out this hack when I push everything down to the ground and just push the knee forward, if that makes any sense.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yes, but you want to connect to everything while you're doing and you're doing great.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah, he's doing that, making smart moves.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You're doing great. I would also add 90, 90 and doing those.

[Caller Lipcho]

Doing those.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Very good. You're doing a great job. So. And you've already seen some progression, it sounds like. Yeah. So you're moving in the right direction. So what I would have someone like you do is I would have you follow map symmetry. I would extend phase one an additional two weeks. So instead of the two weeks of isometrics, you're doing four, and then you're going to do phase two and three, and you're going to skip the. The bilateral phase. You're going to stay unilateral.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Just phase two, then.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh, sorry. Just phase two. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So stay in phase two, skip phase three.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right. And I would go do that two rounds and then do it again a third round and then try the last phase and see how you feel. I think you're progressing. You just got to give yourself some time. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Do you have access to a sled at all, by chance or.

[Caller Lipcho]

No.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Okay. Yeah. It'd be great if you could push or pull. Especially pull a sled. You know, it in terms of like. Like shin angles and getting that strength going backwards would help a lot. I.

[Caller Lipcho]

On the weekends, I always go on this troll, which kind of has this kind of uphill, downhill, rough terrain where I just think of my leg and just push it. That counts.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's fine. Yeah, that's fine.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Do you have Matt's Prime Pro yet?

[Caller Lipcho]

I have almost every problem with you guys.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So do you do. Do you do the. The foot exercises in Prime Pro? So you're doing the ankle stuff, you're doing the hip stuff. Do you do the foot. Foot stuff, too?

[Caller Lipcho]

Yeah, not really.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Piano toes.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Start doing some more of the foot stuff too, where you. You sit on your knees and then you push your. You drive your feet into the ground. Short foot. So incorporate some of the feet stuff also.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah, that's a good.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

My sister just had surgery. Same area as your. Where your. Your fibula. Tibula is broken. Was broken. And she's lost a lot of good connection to her feet. And so I have her doing a lot of ankle, feet, and hip stuff to get reconnected always, obviously, before you work out. And then I would take the advice Sal is saying with symmetry. Follow. Follow that along like that. I wouldn't mess with a lot of bila. You don't need to do bilateral stuff right now. And I wouldn't want to do it until I felt a lot more recovered and balanced out. So.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, a couple rounds of symmetry with skipping that last phase.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Before jumping into that last phase. So Two rounds without last phase. Third round, jump and then go into the third and then see how you actually.

[Caller Lipcho]

Another round of symmetry.

[Podcast Host Doug]

It would be, yes, in that first phase.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And extend that first phase longer, the isometric phase indefinitely.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Any.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Any chance you can get to. To be barefoot, walking around and articulating those toes?

[Caller Lipcho]

I'm always barefoot.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Perfect.

[Caller Lipcho]

I mean, at home and when I'm. When I'm in anybody's house, I'm always barefoot.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Okay. Oh, good.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yeah. Progress should continue for you. It sounds like you're doing all the right things.

[Katie Duke]

Things.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

How long. How long have you been good about all this? Have you been doing this for a while now? How long?

[Caller Lipcho]

One month or so.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, okay. Oh, you're doing good, bro. I. I just want to make sure this hasn't been something you've been trying to. You've been doing all these things for years and not getting right.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Right. Right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You keep. You keep sticking to what you're doing right now. We're talking about.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Give it time, man.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You're gonna be. You're doing good. You're doing really good. It takes time. It takes time, but you're doing good. You're doing real good.

[Caller Lipcho]

Okay. Okay. I mean, yeah, I. I figured. I mean, I always trust the process. I. I'm. I'm really satisfied with doing a lot of your programs, and. They really work, so I really trust you guys about this thing.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Well, thank you.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Great. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You're awesome, dude.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You're kicking ass, buddy. Keep us posted. I'd like to. I'd like to hear how it's going. Check back in with us in a. In a couple months. I want to. I want to hear where you're at. I mean, help you progress.

[Caller Lipcho]

Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Can I ask you another question?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller Lipcho]

We're done with this.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller Lipcho]

I mean, it's regarding my mom, so let me just. Okay. She's. I mean, she's been diagnosed two years ago with osteoporosis, mainly in the lumber area. And she's been having a little. I mean, a lot of pain issues in. In that particular area. I don't know, maybe a couple of months now. And, I mean, her doctors. Her osteoporosis doctor said it's not from that thing, so she went and. And had a CT scan where she. Where they found out they. She. That she has like. Like lumber sciatica. I don't know if I pronounced that good. And. Lumbar spondylosis.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller Lipcho]

As well. So I want to help her out. I want to Help her out. As. As I know. I mean, you sell. Have been talking about your client that you helped a lot with osteoporosis, and I've been thinking on putting her on Map Starter.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Great choice.

[Caller Lipcho]

She's too much afraid to start working out because she thinks if she cracks something, she might end up in a wheelchair.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So Map Starter.

[Caller Lipcho]

I don't know how to

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

do Map Starter.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Have you seen the exercises in there yet? They're really regressed. She should feel confident. Yeah. Okay.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And are you able to train her yourself to kind of watch her?

[Caller Lipcho]

Yeah, I mean, since I've been. I've been listening to you guys, like, I've picked up a lot of stuff.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's it. You just tell your mom, say, mom, listen, don't worry about it. I'm gonna watch you.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I got you.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I'm gonna watch you. I have a program for you, but I'm gonna watch your form real slow.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Yep. Work on techniques.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Encourage her to get her protein intake up too.

[Caller Lipcho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So incur. Encourage the protein intake. Getting that up with. With the strength training real slow with Map. Map Starter. She'll do great.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Just reps and go real slow and hold positions.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Start her with real lightweight and slowly progress her. So until you'll take care of her. I got.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

She'll stay in Map Starter for a long time. Yeah, she could do that for a year.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Caller Lipcho]

Cool.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Cool. Yeah, Perfect.

[Caller Lipcho]

Cool. So thank you very much, guys. I mean, this was. This was really an honor. Do what you do. Keep the integrity. I really are an example. Have been to me, even for. For. Through my fitness journey. Been taking notes about parenting, about life. So thank you. Thank you very, very much. And do what you do.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I'd love to hear back from you in a couple months. Reach back out, let us know how you're doing in a couple months. Okay.

[Caller Lipcho]

God bless you all.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. You too.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

God bless you. Take it easy.

[Caller Lipcho]

Bye.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

See you, brother.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You got you guys. So I looked up right above Greece.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Oh, it's right about Greece.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think Alexander the Great was from Macedonia, if I'm not Macedonia, if I'm not mistaken. But it's in that. It's in that region right there. First of all, cool that we have

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

a listener over there, but it's a small region too.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Right. But he. But he's doing. It's a big. It's a large country, it looks like from the map.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I was kind of looking at as well. Yeah, it looks fairly good to us.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

He's. He's doing Great. He's progressing well. And it takes time.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Especially after an injury.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's what I was trying to get to.

[Podcast Host Doug]

A month.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I was like, yeah, yeah. I thought he was gonna. Because it says. He's been listening to us for a long time. And I'm like, man, is. Did this injury happen way long ago? And he's just now working and he's. And he's been working on it for years. And he. I'm like, but, oh, one month. He's already doing great. He's doing. He's gonna be fine.

[Podcast Host Doug]

He's making progress. He's gonna keep making progress.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

But this is what I. So my sister, I just. This is. She just cut out. She just took her cast off and she had some Achilles work done. And, man, she's just. The physical therapies. Tell you what, it's not the blanket statement. All bad. Like, all pts, right?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

No, they're great. They're just limited.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it just. It's good. It's tough to find really, really good. It's tough to find a really good trainer. It's tough to find really good doctors to find really good whatever. But, I mean, some of these, they just. They get you healed and they just kick you right out. Her movement sucks. I mean, watching her walk and she's like, like. And, you know, the doctor says to her, well, you need to lose weight, because losing weight is at that. So that's the solve, right? That's just like, lose weight because she's overweight. She knows it. But, like, I'm like, well, that's not the root cause. I said you could be obese and not have this pain. I said that. So. And so you could take somebody who has now has bad, poor movement patterns, and you go tell them, encourage them to run or move, like, do all this activity. And I'm like, no, no, we. When you have. I said, when your knee hurts like that, and you didn't have an acute injury there, and you just had this surgery down in your Achilles area, you. Your, Your. Your. Your foot and ankle have, like, gone to sleep. Your brain has just decided you don't need to use it very much. So you got limited strength, mobility, and flexibility in that area and then also in the hip, because that was all locked up, too. So we've got to gain that access back, get reconnected. That's what you got to do. And so it's very similar to him. And I've got her doing, you know, two or three of the movements for her foot from prime pro Two or three movements for ankle stuff and then two or three movements for her hips every day, all as many times a day as you can. And I said that is more important than you trying to get on the treadmill and walk for three miles to start there. Yes. Yes.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Mario from California.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Mario, what's up, Mario? What's happening?

[Caller Mario]

Hey, what's up guys?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

How you doing, man?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Mario]

So a little bit of background. I'm 5 6, 240 pounds. Most of my training has been like really just strength focused. I love your guys programs. I've run out of ballock and I've run power lift. I even ran Maps Performance before going to the police academy and it helped out tons.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Awesome.

[Caller Mario]

But the reason I actually reached out is back in October, I hurt my shoulder and it turned out it was a torn labrum. So after that, took a week off of lifting. I've still been training very light, just the uninjured side, because I did remember in the past hearing you guys speak on studies showing that that can help like, retain some of the muscle and strength on the opposite side. So my real question is, is, well, like once I'm fully cleared, what would you recommend? Like what direction to go in just to rebuild strength and mobility to ease back into regular training?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, good question, dude. So with the. Once you're fully cleared and you continue to do the rehab exercises, by the way, I like map symmetry.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And. And you would start with the weak arm, which would be the arm that had the, the tear, and let that arm dictate how much weight you use for the other arm. And then you should see some pretty rapid and consistent gains and strength and stability. But don't go crazy with it. Don't push it. Just be nice and smooth with it. But symmetry, unilateral training will be great. And I would skip the last phase, so I'd probably go through symmetry twice. And then this maybe the second time around, you can go through the last phase.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Would you also encourage him for the shoulder stuff specifically to keep that kind of isometric stuff in his routine?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

So even after you do face priming too?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. In phase, in phase one, you're going to go through some isometrics, which are going to be really good for you in the shoulder area. When. And then even when you move out of that phase and you go into phase two to strength training, I'd actually still incorporate some of those isometrics for the shoulder before you work out, like starting your workout with the Isometric for the shoulders just to. Just to help that speed up that process.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Do you have map symmetry?

[Caller Mario]

No, I don't have symmetry.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Now, would you want to do the 15 version of it, or would you want to do the full version of it after you're cleared?

[Caller Mario]

I think I would. I. I really. I would want to jump in, like, the full version of it.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

All right, we'll send that to you. All right, cool. You got it, man.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Take your time, brother. All right.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller Mario]

I should be out of the sling by this week, but recovery, they gave me, like, six to 12 months to fully heal.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, Just take your time, and you'll be surprised. Now, I'm gonna say something, but just be very careful. Yeah. With good exercise, you recover a lot faster. Yeah, but I'm saying be careful because you don't want to go crazy with it. But you. You. You. It'll probably happen faster if you do. Think smart.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Have you. Have you utilized any peptides before?

[Caller Mario]

I haven't utilized any peptides right now. I did get the steroid prescribed to me to help that healing process is just testosterone that they gave me.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh, wow. Wow. They give you testosterone? Well, here.

[Caller Mario]

Yeah, that's what they ended up giving me.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Go to mphormones.com because you can get testosterone there, but they also prescribe peptides and so, like, bpc. Yeah, bpc. Thymus and beta combo. Man, that'll. That makes you heal real quick.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller Mario]

Yeah, that was one I was kind of interested in looking into. I just. With my work, I just need to make sure it's prescribed.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, the way MP Hormones works is you. You meet a doctor, you meet with a medical professional, and then you. You get a prescription. It's like. It's kind of like a Costco membership. So it's. I think it's like 149 or something a month. And then you're. And that includes your testosterone. So you get your testosterone for free, including the membership, and then peptides are sold to you at wholesale, so. And it's all done through a medical. Medical professional prescription. Okay. So, yeah, I look into it. All right, dude.

[Caller Lipcho]

Dude.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

All right, brother.

[Caller Mario]

Thanks, guys.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Thanks for your help.

[Podcast Host Doug]

All right, good.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's. I like. I love when I see little kids on the. Yeah, yeah. You remember when your boys were that little.

[Podcast Host Doug]

I know.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

And then they just like, climb all over you.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. You know, the whole. I. So I had ac. Joint resection, which is different than a labrum. Labrum tear can be a pain in the back. But, but I remember they gave me, I don't remember how long they gave me. They said, oh, this is when you'll be like able to. Now, now. I was smart about it, but I did, you know, exercise and I did things that the doctor's like, oh, you got to wait longer. But I went and I still worked out and they were shocked. I would show up to the physical therapy appointment and they'd be like, oh my God, you're already moving that well. And it's just like, yeah, I'm, I'm practicing exercise and doing things on my own. I was careful about it.

[Podcast Host Doug]

That's it.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But I was back so much faster. And this is before Peptides, before any of us.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Just making sure those movement patterns are.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's right, Jit.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Like you're going to set yourself up for long term success.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Marta from California.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Hi Marta.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Marta?

[Podcast Host Doug]

Hi.

[Caller Marta]

Hi guys. How are you?

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Good, we're good.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Marta]

Good, thanks for your time. I really appreciate it. So I found your podcast just a few months ago, so not that long. And I've been, I've learned a lot from listening to you guys. Honestly, I'm not super familiar with your programs, but I really like what you have to say about fitness and nutrition. So I wanted to get your advice on kind of where I'm at at this point in my life and the direction I'm headed. So I'm 60 years old, I'm 5, 900 and about 138 pounds, and I'm pretty new to lifting weights. I've also been dealing with some chronic plantar fasciitis and knee pain issues for, for several years. I had an in body scan in January and my body fat percentage came back at 18. But I just had a DEXA a couple weeks ago and it came back at 22, which seems like swing to me, but I know the, the DEXA is the gold standard, so I'm going with that number. I'm pretty disciplined, like a lot of your listeners, pretty very consistent with exercise and diet. I eat my protein 1 pound or 1 gram per pound, and whole foods, little to no alcohol, and I eat about 2200 calories a day. I've always been fairly athletic and I started weight training after going through menopause, which included gaining 15 plus pounds and a total shift in my body composition, which freaked me out. At the time. I was intermittent fasting, I was eating very little, I was doing a ton of cardio, I was Tired all the time and I was gaining weight. It made no sense to me, just from everything I'd been told and learned over the years. So it's kind of at my wits end and I started learning more about strength training and the power of protein and thought, okay, I'm going to give this a try and if it doesn't work, I guess I just give up. So I was kind of at that point where I was ready for just like saying this is it, this is how my life's going to be for the next however long I have. So anyway, I started out with dumbbells at my house, just following some online programs. And then about six months ago my husband and I joined a gym which just, you know, half a mile from our house. So my current Exercise program is 3 days of about 3545 minute full body strength sessions, 2 days of stationary bike hour long sessions of zone 2 and sprints, a day of hot yoga, a day of mobility exercises. And I also do before every day, every morning I do about 10 minutes of mobility before I do anything and I get about 7,8000 steps a day. That's kind of what I aim for. Since I started lifting weights, even when I was doing at home, I've lost that 15 pounds that I gained and my body comp is completely shifted like nothing like better than before. It's kind of been nothing short of a miracle. I'm a total believer in strength training now. I'm trying to convince my girlfriends to, to lift a dumbbell here and there. But I think it's one of those things where we've been programmed to believe a certain thing for so many years and it almost seems too simple. So let's see, I'm, I'm, I'm doing, like I said, what feels like a lot less, eating more and I'm, I think I'm leaner than I've ever been or at least in a long time. So I'm super stoked with the progress I've made over the past 18 months or so. And it's kind of crazy to say it, but I'm at a point where it's kind of, it's gonna become kind of fun like just to kind of see how you what the changes you can make that aren't crazy and hard, super hard can the impact it can have on your body. It's, it's amazing to me. So anyway, more than anything, I just was hoping to get your advice on what I should do, what I shouldn't do going forward to build the strength. At this point in my life, my ultimate goal is to do as little as possible and while avoiding injury so I can get as strong as I can reasonably expect to at this point in my life. And from there it's almost embarrassing to say, but I want to do the minimum amount necessary to just to maintain that level of fitness as I get older. I just want to be able to live that healthy health span.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

You have obviously mentality, you have obviously done your homework because of the routine that you have put together for yourself is wonderful.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I'm actually going to say something I don't think I've ever said to anybody who's called in. I think you're doing everything perfect.

[Podcast Host Doug]

For real?

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. There's really nothing I would add, perfect mentality. I have a couple questions and I know you're working. It says in your email you're working with a physical therapist slash trainer. So their background is in physical therapy, but they're also. Yeah, okay. So that means I'm pretty confident they know what they're doing at least when it comes to biomechanics. The strength training that you're doing is traditional strength training where you do a set and you rest. Set and you rest.

[Caller Marta]

Yeah, yeah. Like three sets. And it's mostly machines and dumbbells. I haven't done anything like with the barbells or anything. You know, I'd like to at some point. The problem, my problem too is right now I was working with this, this pt. He. I'm in San Diego. He was in the area and then he moved to New York. So once I started the. I joined the gym, I, the, I tried to train her at the gym and it didn't work out anyway, so I went back to him. He, he's been training me virtually, so he's been programming like six weeks block, six week blocks. And it's been great because he's, he. There's some biases towards my, you know, for my injuries just strengthening my quads and my calves and my hamstrings and stuff. But my, my question is too, like, I just want to make sure my form's good and that I'm, I'm activating the right muscles. So because I'm so new, I, I just worry because, you know, I'm starting to feel a little something in my elbow, like a little, you know, so I just worry about that. But I want to go slow. I'm super excited about it and kind of just like ready to like progress. And that's sort of me mentally and kind of how I operate, I'm like, like, cool, let's keep going. More and more, like, you know, harder.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

No, no, no, no, you're perfect. No, no, no, you're perfect. Don't, don't. The mistake you can make is just trying to rush things. Now, what you might want to do is ask your trainer, because they sound like they know what they're doing, is say, hey, could you find me a trainer in this area to supplement what I'm doing with you so that, you know, I could have the occasional workout with them to watch my technique? Maybe that could be helpful.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I mean, you could also do what. This is what our. We. We have virtual trainers here, right? So we have trainers that virtually coach people all over the world. And we have them, like, we'd have a client send in a video, like, so we say, hey, video yourself doing the squat or doing this. And then that's part of. When they meet with them on a monthly basis. They're reviewing that, they're reviewing diet, they're reviewing stuff. So maybe have your coach do that for you. We also have. We also have a private forum. I'll have Doug put you in, get you in, get you in there, there. And inside the private forum, this is really common. This is probably the most popular thing that people use the forum for because we have people like Dr. Brink, who I think is one of the most brilliant movement specialists in the world. We have Jordan Shallow in there. We have. We're all in there and tons of other coaches that are really good in there. And if you literally just take a video of you doing a movement and say, hey, what does this look all right? Or even like how you're saying, hey, I kind of noticed this issue in my L. And you'll get. Within five minutes, you'll have. Have 10 PTS respond to you and say, hey, it could be this. Try this. This might be happening. Or I noticed this when you move, this is going like. So it's a great.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

I love your combination of. I think you're doing the right amount of strength training. I love the yoga. I love the sauna, the biking, the sea of psych. I love the steps.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Everything you're doing is great.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Your diet is great, body fat percentage wise. So that's within the margin of error. But I'll tell you this. Your best health, health, your best hormonal health, your best fitness, the best way you feel and energy is gonna be between probably 20 to 25% body fat. So in that, like, mid to low percent, 20% is where you want to live. I would definitely suggest you don't chase getting leaner because you'll start to notice negative results just from how you feel calorie wise, you could probably eat more and you'll probably feel better.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

If you bumped your calories, you're at 20, 200 calories. I bet if you went up to like 23, 50, 24, you would just have more energy and strength.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, you'll build muscle. You'll build muscle, especially paired with the routine that you have. You have such a good routine.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You added a 200 calorie meal, high protein meal easily. You would just get better energy easily.

[Caller Marta]

Okay. Because that's the other thing I just wonder about calories. I mean, I hear you guys all the time telling people they need to eat more. And the more I hear it, the more I'm like, yeah, I need to eat more. So I have bumped my calories up. But it's just so I'm like, it's the idea that, you know, it's just

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

a struggle sometimes what you'll see is muscle. Come on.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

The way your routine is you will build muscle. You're not going to put body. And here's, here's a plus side of it, Marta is, and I don't know what else you do like socially in your life, you and your husband. So but as you increase those calories and you get to a place where you can maintain a very healthy weight and be eating say 25, 26, 2800 calories hours, now you have what's called metabolic flexibility. So occasionally when you and your husband go out for a nice dinner or drink, you can go on vacation, you can have a dessert, you can, you can have a little bit of this stuff and it not feel like, oh, my God, I put that weight on. Your metabolism is moving at such a higher rate that it gives you more metabolic flexibility. And so that's another benefit of feeding yourself more and really fueling that muscle building is it'll speed that metabolism up, up and give you a little more freedom and flexibility for more days. Dr.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

So the way you do it, someone like you, I'm gonna make an educated guess, you probably generally eat the same kind of things most days. So you probably have a pretty much. Yeah. So if you just added a 200 calorie meal to that, a high protein, you know, 25 grams of protein meal, that's maybe 200 calories. Just add to your current what you're

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

currently eating or eat bigger portions or bigger portions or just Go two more ounces on every meat serving. You do. That's how. The easy way to do too.

[Caller Marta]

All right. There you go. I think that is for me, that would work better. Instead of 4 ounces, 6 ounces.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Oh, yes.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Oh, for sure.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

If you only have four, easily go to 6 to 8 ounces on all your meats.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

You're just gonna get more energy and stronger.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

In fact, go to 6 right now on all of your meats. Stay there for a little while, enjoy the strength. Gains the muscle and then. And then literally go up again. Another 2 ounces and you'll be fine. Yeah, just inch your way up that way and. And that'll be an easy way to bump the calories. Not radically change or have to force another meal down.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

But I mean, your routine and your structure is perfect.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Beautiful.

[Caller Marta]

Oh, awesome. Thank you. That's great. Thank you.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

That's why you feel so good.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yep.

[Caller Marta]

Yeah. I mean, way better. I used to just, you know, take. I mean, I know they're kind of good for your naps, but I don't feel the need to take a nap in the middle.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're doing great.

[Caller Marta]

I've got way more energy and stuff, so. Okay. One last question. If I can just about diet.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Caller Marta]

So I don't. Is there. I mean, I've read a lot and heard a lot, but I just want to get your take on increasing calories. Is there a different. Like once I get my protein, because I normally get about 150 grams of protein and it's not that hard for me. We always, we eat pretty well and clean. But as far as fat and carbs, if, you know, is there. Should I be eating more carbs with what I'm doing or is it. Is it. It doesn't matter at this point now

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

if you're eating enough fats, because fats, you have to have a certain amount. You can't get around that. But this is where I've noticed a huge difference between people. Some people just feel better eating more carbs when they bump their calories. Other people feel better with more fats. And so you just gotta just play with it and see how you feel. And they say, oh, you know, I noticed that when I bump, when I increase my rice, I've just got more energy and I feel good. Or hey, when I increase my. When I added a little bit of avocado or some olive oil, I feel better. So that's really an individual thing.

[Caller Marta]

Okay.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I encourage you to play with it, especially a client like you who's really dialed in. I love everything you're doing. Like, what I would normally do with someone like you is, like, for two weeks, I'd say, hey, let's add that avocado in, you know, every day, Right. So you have, like, that. Let's just do that for two weeks. Let's see how you feel. You report back to me. And then the next two weeks, I'd say, hey, let's bump, you know, one cup of rice into your diet. So that could be throughout all the meals. And let's see how you feel. And you report back to me which one feels the best, digestive wise, energy wise, strengthen the gym wise. And then that's what we're probably going to do more of. And. But nothing wrong with toggling or splitting it. You're. You're in a good place. Yep.

[Caller Marta]

Okay. Because I feel like it's shocking to me because I love bread, but it's. I feel like based on what I'm eating now, I'm. I eat more fat. Like I. My fat with avocado and nuts and stuff like that.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller Marta]

Anyway. Okay.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

That's a good idea.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Don't be surprised. I know you said you like bread. Don't be surprised if you cut out gluten, if you feel even better. That's just common with a lot of people. Not everybody, but for a lot of people, when they. Yeah. When they cut out bread, they just feel better. And I've noticed even more for women than men.

[Caller Marta]

Yeah. And I don't eat a lot. I eat the Ezekiel bread, so it's not usually considered bread.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That's not real bread.

[Caller Marta]

I know. But I've gotten used to it, so I kind of like it anyway.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller Marta]

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

No, you're doing great.

[Caller Marta]

Thank you, guys, again. I appreciate your time and all the information and the knowledge that you guys share with everybody. I appreciate it and learn a lot.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I'm going to have Doug get you free access to the forum right now, and so you'll be.

[Caller Marta]

That's awesome.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we'll see you.

[Caller Marta]

I love that.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

All right, Martin, thank you.

[Caller Marta]

Thanks so much, guys. Bye.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

She accidentally became, like, a great testimony for everything we talked about. I mean, how often do you hear somebody who calls in who's like, her prescription was perfect.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

The routine was great. The routine was perfect.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

I mean, every bit of it. Every bit of it. And really, where she's at, she could literally just afford to eat more calories.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

She'll feel better. Yeah, she'll feel better with more calories.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

Yeah, she'll eat more calories, she'll build more muscle, she'll have more metabolic flexibility.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

And so but what a cool story.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

And even the trainer she's working with, you know, is a physical therapist.

[Podcast Host Doug]

Also her plan going into the future with her training.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

What a cool story too for somebody.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Gained 15 pounds, beating themselves 60.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

60 years old, gone through menopause, felt like ready to throw their hands up and then did less. Yeah, is doing less.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

Lifted weights, ate more protein. Boom. Radical change.

[Podcast Host Adam Schafer]

So cool.

[Podcast Host Sal DeStefano]

It's as if what we say. True 12 look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

[Podcast Host Justin Andrews]

Mind Pump Media thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, performance and Maps aesthetic nine months of fate expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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