2823: The Fitness Skills You Stop Using First (And Regret Later)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump #2823 – The Fitness Skills You Stop Using First (And Regret Later)

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Date: March 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, the Mind Pump crew tackles a powerful question: What fundamental fitness skills do people lose first—and later regret the most? Drawing from decades of coaching and personal experience, Sal, Adam, and Justin break down six vital abilities, why they vanish with neglect, and what can be done to retain (or recover) them. The discussion ranges from deep fitness know-how to personal anecdotes, client lessons, and broader social insights about health, community, and even the unintended consequences of new wellness trends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. If You Don’t Use It, You Lose It: Six Essential Skills

[02:26–24:42]

• Main Thesis: Fitness skills deteriorate rapidly if not practiced—regardless of age. The hosts list six movement patterns/skills that are crucial for overall longevity, quality of life, and injury prevention:

  1. Overhead Pressing / Reaching Overhead ([02:42] – [08:10])

     • Most adults lose the ability to lift arms overhead due to lifestyle and lack of use.
     • Noted as a modern problem compared to 50 years ago (e.g., “Monkey bars!” – Sal [03:40]).
     • Clients often can't flatten arms against a wall without arching their backs ([05:22]).
     • Loss leads to neck, shoulder, and upper-back issues—even in the young and muscular.

  2. Squatting ([08:23] – [09:33])

     • Toddlers squat naturally; adults lose this basic “rest position.”
     • Loss leads to knee, hip, and back pain, reducing mobility and readiness for movement.

  3. Hinging ([09:48] – [12:18])

     • Bending at the hips without excessive lower back flexion is commonly lost.
     • Most clients can't deadlift or hinge, directly driving low back pain.
     • Coaching cues: Best simple cue—"Stick your butt out!" ([11:14]).
     • Sal describes using a PVC pipe for feedback as a “game changer” in teaching the hinge ([10:17]).

  4. Running ([12:18] – [14:49])

     • “Running is a fundamental human movement. That doesn’t mean you gotta go run an ultramarathon…” – Adam [14:31]
     • Most adults stop running entirely after childhood, leading to loss of skill and ability.

  5. Jumping ([17:05] – [18:35])

     • Adults frequently can’t jump safely; many can’t jump at all.
     • Sal shares painful realization after jumping from his truck and feeling like his knees would “explode” ([18:21]).

  6. Throwing ([19:54] – [20:54])

     • Humans are uniquely good at throwing with accuracy and force; most lose this skill.
     • Relevance: Good for shoulder health, scapular function, and trunk rotation.
     • “If you don’t practice throwing, your ability to do this without hurting yourself goes away.” – Adam [19:54]

• Bonus: Sitting on the Floor, Balance, and Rotation

  • Adam notes the loss of comfort sitting on the ground as a hidden loss (esp. when watching kids’ sports) ([18:35]).
  • Balance and trunk rotation are debated. Sal and Justin argue balance deserves a spot; Adam notes if you can run/jump, you likely have balance ([21:11]–[22:23]).

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2. Age vs. Activity: Why We Really Lose Skills

[08:34–09:48, 24:05–25:40]

• “You don't lose these abilities because you get older. You lose them because you stop doing them.” – Adam [08:34]
• Many clients believe they’re ‘just fine’ or only motivated by aesthetics, but loss of fundamental skills is the true risk.
• Sedentary lifestyles—not age—drive atrophy in skill.

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3. Practicing (and Regaining) Lost Skills

[16:31–17:16, 24:01–24:33]

• Regaining skills must be gradual; jumping into competition or extreme fatigue erases skill and increases risk.
• “If you lost the skill because you stopped running… signing up for an ultramarathon is not a good idea.” – Sal [16:45]
• Adam warns even fit, aesthetic-focused adults can lose these abilities if not practiced directly.

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4. Simple Lifestyle Strategies for Retention

• The hosts pepper in practical tips to reinforce movement patterns:
  • Balance: “Every week, I put my socks on standing on one leg… I don’t want to lose that.” – Sal [22:56]
  • Use floor sitting, squatting, and movement as everyday tasks, not just gym drills.

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5. Fitness Business/Pedagogy Sidebars

[57:06–61:20]

• Advice to trainers: Don’t jump from gym employment to solo business unless you’re a top performer. Community, structure, leads, and mentorship make gyms the best start.

  “If you’re not number one or two in your local gym, you have no business going and trying to build your own business. And you** will make less money**.” – Sal [57:48]

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6. Changing Tune on Cannabis Use

[61:20–78:47]

• Hosts reflect on shifting perspectives with new research. They now recognize regular use increases risk for anxiety, depression, motivation issues, and cognitive impairment.

• Occasional recreational use compared to moderate alcohol intake.

• Open, ongoing conversation with kids about cannabis is essential; modeling responsible behavior is key.

  “[Cannabis] really messes up the dopaminergic system of the brain to where… the stoner myth is kind of true.” – Adam [61:54]

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7. Nutrition, Red Light Therapy, and GLP-1 Coaching

• Red Light Therapy: Only panels in the 630–660nm and 810–850+nm range are effective ([29:40]). “If it’s outside that, it is nothing.” – Adam [29:40]
• GLP-1 Agonists & Fitness: Effective use (for weight loss, e.g., Ozempic) should start only after building foundational health: mitochondrial fitness, gut integrity, stress/cortisol management, optimizing hormones, resistance training, and prioritizing protein ([50:25–53:29]).
• Bumping Fats for Sleep: Ensuring adequate fat intake (never below ~60g for most women/~70g for most men) avoids hormone problems and supports sleep quality ([78:54–81:14]).
  • “One of the first things you'll notice if your fat intake [is low]… you'll notice your sleep will be [impaired].” – Adam [79:53]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sal on losing movement patterns:
  “That person didn’t wake up one day and have to use a walker. At 30 you couldn’t do this, and it got worse and worse… next thing you know, you’re…” [05:55]
• Adam on practicing skill:
  “Fatigue throws skill out the window. Anything under fatigue, your skill goes down no matter what. So the idea is to practice and regain the skill before you ever try doing it to fatigue…” [16:49]
• Adam on fitness “default”:
  “If you just live the way everybody else does, you’ll be unhealthy—not just physically, but mentally and spiritually… you have to be a rebel.” [47:20]
• On “do” versus “don’t” messaging (community and social media):
  “It’s a far better strategy...to tell someone what they should do, than what not to do.” – Adam [37:23]
  • “Isolation is the issue. It’s less about the dangers of these bad things and more about what it’s pulling us away from.” – Adam [39:02]
• On loss of running/jumping:
  “I've never stopped working out. I’m very consistent… I've got muscle, but I'm losing the ability to run well and jump because I never practiced them.” – Adam [24:05]

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Significant Timestamps

• 02:26 – Adam: “What you don’t train, you lose. Six skills you don’t want to lose.”
• 05:22 – Sal describes alarming loss of overhead mobility in young clients.
• 09:48 – Defining the hinge, why most lose it, and best teaching cues (PVC pipe).
• 12:18–14:31 – Running: evolutionary context and personal story (“taco shell fire”).
• 17:05 – Jumping: how fast skill disappears, personal failures.
• 18:35 – Loss of floor sitting, impact on daily life.
• 19:54 – Throwing, why it's unique to humans, its benefits beyond sport.
• 22:56 – Everyday balance: “I refuse to put socks on sitting down…”
• 24:05 – Even consistent gym-goers lose skills without direct practice.
• 37:23 – “Do vs Don't”: More effective leadership.
• 47:20 – “Default” lifestyles and their systemic negative impact.
• 50:25 – GLP-1 protocol for trainers (Acronym: MARCH).
• 78:54 – How increasing fats can help sleep; minimum recommendations.
• 61:20 – Changing mind on cannabis as new research emerges.
• 57:06 – Trainer business advice; only top performers should go solo.

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Final Takeaways

• Movement Patterns Are Use-Dependent: You don’t lose fundamental fitness skills due to age; you lose them due to neglect.
• Skill Loss Has Downstream Effects: Losing basic skills like squatting, hinging, or reaching causes pain, limits independence, and increases risk of injury.
• Practice is Crucial: Fitness is about more than muscle—aesthetic focus alone leads to regret later when these movement skills are lost.
• Community & Lifestyle Matter: Regular practice in realistic, everyday contexts (balance, sitting, playing, socializing) is as important as gym routines.
• Nutrition & New Trends Need Context: Red light therapy and weight loss drugs only work if you set the right foundation; don’t chase hacks before basics.
• Openness & Adaptation: The hosts discuss openly how their positions have changed with new data—especially regarding cannabis and community.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants to preserve their mobility, independence, and true functional fitness for life—not just look good in the short term.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Howie Mandel]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the

[Adam Schafer]

most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we answered questions that people posted on Instagram @mindpump media. But before we did that, we did the intro. Today's intro is 52 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, fat loss, muscle gain, current events, family life, always a good time. Again, if you want to write in a question that we can pick for an episode, go to Instagram mindpump Media now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Joovv. This is Red light Therapy. That works. It's the same wavelength, the same intensity as you see in the studies. Most red light therapy panels online are pure garbage, waste of time. Not Joovv. These are the ones they use in the studies. Go to Joovv.com mindpump that's J-O-O-V-V.com the code mind pump will get you $50 off your first purchase. By the way, it's Joov's 10 year anniversary. That means everything's on sale. Go check them out. This episode is also brought to you by Huel. These are meal replacement shakes that are vegan. They taste good, they're high protein. They also have energy drinks. Go check them out. Get yourself 15% off. Go to huel.com, that's h u e l.com mindpump use the code mindpump for that discount. We also have a brand new workout program bundle, the Spring bundle, Maps, Symmetry, Maps prime and the advanced training techniques guide all of that together over 50% off. Head over to mapsmarch.com all right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit, pause, head over to mypumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Adam Schafer]

Here's a fact. What you don't train, what you don't practice, you lose. You actually, in fact, there are six skills you don't want to lose. You don't want to lose these abilities. Let's see if the guys can guess what they are.

[Justin Andrews]

If you don't use it, we're going

[Adam Schafer]

to go lose it. We'll see if. Just throw one out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Well, first one I'm going to say is to press over your head.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's definitely one of them. So just to. Just to paint some context, we've seen this. When you don't practice a particular movement pattern or use it often, the brain actually adapts same way muscle does. So if you don't use your biceps, your muscles atrophy and they shrink. When you don't practice a movement pattern, the neural pathways that control that movement pattern weaken, in essence, atrophy. So you actually lose that ability. You lose the ability, and then gaining it back is a whole process. And there are certain abilities just to loosely name them that you really don't want to lose. Because if you lose these abilities, there's a lot of downstream negative effects that come from them. And you're right, that's. One of them is being able to lift your arms directly above your head.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I have a theory on why that is so bad today in comparison to, say, 50 years ago.

[Adam Schafer]

What is it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Monkey bars.

[Adam Schafer]

That might not be.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, hear me out. Hear me out. Like, other than that, there's not a lot of things that a young kid or even an adult would have fundamentally done done on a regular basis overhead. Like, it's not a normal. It's not a normal movement. Like the hinge extension. Yeah. In full extension being connected. Yeah. All the way from hands to all short. Like, where. Where else are you doing that in regular life for the average person?

[Adam Schafer]

We just. I think. Well, not a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

Climbing's a big part of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Climbing is a big part of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And.

[Adam Schafer]

And we organize our homes and our lives so we don't have to do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That movement. Do you guys remember the first time you had a client?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

When you actually realized, like, you can't reach directly. And what it looks like typically is a person's. They can't straighten their arms out, and they can't do this. And they end up leaning back to try to straighten their Arms out. So one of.

[Sal DeStefano]

One of my go to. I don't think we've ever talked about this. One of my go to moves on a. We talk about the assessment. Right. And how we used to break down. And everybody, or not everybody, but a lot of people know that's what our prime, our maps prime, is how we would assess a client.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

One of the things that we don't have in there that I actually used to do, and a lot of it was to just point out how alarming this was, was I would take a client, put them against. Flat against the wall, and then I'd have them try and raise their arms all the way up to show, like, how their hips come off the wall. Oh, yeah. How. How much they would arch their back to get their hands above there. And I'd be like, we should be able to stay flat right here and be able to come all the way back and touch the wall. And they would be so, like, blown away how they can't do that.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember the first time I saw this as a trainer, and it was alarming because it wasn't somebody who was in advanced age.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that's what I was gonna say. This was something I did, like, on people in their 30s and 40s.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, this is.

[Adam Schafer]

They look normal. They just weren't working out. They were just sedentary and they couldn't lock out and they had to overarch and do. And I remember putting the weight down. Maybe it's too heavy. We'd go lighter and they still couldn't. And I had. I grabbed his wrists and I pulled them straight up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then I said, okay, now try and hold them there. And he would contort. And this was common. This was not uncommon.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it was so common. So part of the spiel that I would do is it's like everybody comes in because especially 30s and 40s, because they want to lose body fat or build muscle or look a certain way. And I would, like, easily break that down real quick, following our macros and doing these things. Like, that's the easy part. I'm like, but I'm also going to get you to move better and feel better. Oh, I feel fine. And then I would do some of this stuff and be like, look at this. You can't. Yeah, you've lost this. And you're only this old right now. Like, imagine if you continue down this pathway at 50, 60, 70, like, and then I do the whole analogy or like. Or metaphor of like, somebody using a can. I'm like, that person didn't wake up, you know, one day, and then all of a sudden had to use a walker. It was at 30 years old, you couldn't do this or you couldn't do that. And then it just got worse, worse, worse. And the next thing you know, you're.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, you can't. You can't help but for what you brought up, like, think of all the fundamental movement patterns, like squatting, hinging.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You know, those are other ones.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, so I think immediately of like when the Starrettes were here and they're talking about what they implemented in the book, where it's like you got to balance and then tie your shoe. I think the bending over, you know, tying your shoes. Like people. I mean, you get. It becomes a lot harder, like if you don't actually have the ability to hold yourself in place and then also hinge.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Well, there's.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is balance one of them?

[Adam Schafer]

No, I didn't put that on.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

So. So that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Definitely one of them.

[Adam Schafer]

But all the ones that I listed are ones that I was able to find data supporting that lead to a lot of the stuff that we're talking about. So, like, for example, losing the ability to really extend your arm up above your head, you start to lose the connection between how the scapula and the humerus move together. And that thoracic stability, which is that upper mid back stability. And what ends up happening over time, you start to develop neck issues. It starts out with neck tension, then it looks like tension across the shoulder girdle. Then it's shoulder problems.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And that then contributes to lots of other things, by the way, because again, this is not just older people. This is actually quite common. We had a guy who came in, and I won't say too much without calling him out, but he was a. He was a. He was a physique competitor. This guy's like Jack in his 20s. Couldn't do this basic movement because he never trained with that full extension. Actually lost it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

In his 20.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Which is limited by. Yeah, I was. I would assume too, is rotation on there, because, like trunk rotation, any kind of rotation where that's pretty limited. I would say even the most egregious one I see a lot is with the neck.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because, you know, you end up turning your whole body one direction. And this is one of those where I see, like, injuries or like a lot of pain with a lot of clients because they can't actually turn their neck.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, one thing too, that's that we got to communicate that's important is you don't lose these abilities because you get older. You lose them because you stop doing. Yes. So this is not a result of age. So a lot of the ones we're going to say neglect. You'll notice that older people can't do them, but it's not because they're older. It's because they stopped doing them. You mentioned two others, so we'll go back to those. Squat and hinge. Yes. Very important. So squatting, if you have a toddler, you notice how natural squatting is. Like, this is. Our bodies are actually made. This is actually a rest position for humans. It's a natural rest position. And scientists will notice that hunter gatherer societies, this is how they often sit and rest. And it's because it's a rest. It's good on the body. It's actually good for the digestive system. You decompress, it decompresses the spine. It's also a ready position. So even though you're fully rested, you could move very easily, and you lose that ability. Now, that's an easy one because most people who don't work out can't even do a normal squat.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Without all kinds of work. And then what does that lead to? Well, it leads to knee pain, hip pain. And low back pain. And low back pain. So also important, then hinging. This is an important one. Hinging is the ability to bend over without having too much flexion in the

[Sal DeStefano]

spine, loading the hips instead of the back.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

This one is so crazy that all trainers know this. All trainers who've been training for longer than just a few months.

[Sal DeStefano]

I can't do that. That's why I didn't. Deadly. They can't do it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they just can't do it. You tell someone to bend over and it's all lumbar flexion. And there's no hinging at the hips, which is. And we, you know, we learned this right. People will say, lift with your legs or, you know, try. It's like we, we, we, we. Then you try to do it, and you can't do it. You lost that ability.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And that is low back pain.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is why one. And we did this a long time ago. It's in our. And it's in our programs. You see, I love. I love seeing all of our trainers use this tool. Um, I. And this was an unlock for me. Didn't happen till, God, I want to say year six or seven, when I went to. I went to some Seminar. One of my national Certs. I don't remember which one, but the guy training us pulled out a PVC pipe and would put it. Put it on the back of their nodule. Their. Yeah, the back of the spine. Yeah, on their. Their upper back. And then they're on their hips. And you had to keep all three points of those contact. And that feedback. To teach someone how to hinge was better than any cue that I had been doing for years. And just carrying a little light pipe like that, that became a staple in my gym that we would do to teach. Because teaching a hinge to somebody who's lost the ability is a really. It's tough.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like you're speaking a different language.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is. It's a. It's a very tough cue.

[Adam Schafer]

The best cue I ever used. Which sounds funny.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stick your ass out.

[Adam Schafer]

Stick your butt out.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know which I. Which, by the way, I remember when we first started this podcast, the trainers that. The trainer. There was. There's a. There was a movement for a while there. I haven't heard this in a long time, but it was. It was really popular. And maybe when it was that time when we were talking about that queue, a lot of, you know, biomechanic dorks would get on there and be like, that's a tur. That's a bad cue.

[Adam Schafer]

Then.

[Sal DeStefano]

Then you get an over excess. It's like, if you don't cue that to the average person, they don't know what. They don't know what to do. And so you had a lot of people that were trying to counter that. I was like, no, that was the best cue I had until I had the.

[Adam Schafer]

It just got the person to kind of go, oh, okay, this is what

[Sal DeStefano]

I. Yeah, yeah, that. That made sense to them. You know what I'm saying? Like, telling someone to give them an anterior. I need you to do anteriorly. Tilt your pelvis.

[Adam Schafer]

Bend at the hips.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's like, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Slide your hips back. Like, those are. Cues are tough for the average person to. To grasp.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Until they can feel it or see it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Chop those hips.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, that was one of the better ones to cue, too, for sure. Stick your ass out. Karate chop your hips was before PVC pipe. That was for sure my go to.

[Adam Schafer]

I do that as well. All right, the next one. This is actually a personal one for me because I'm. I need to start practicing this because I'm losing this ability, and that's just to Run. Just run. So I had a conversation over the weekend with some friends of mine and we were talking about fitness. The conversation went to fitness and, you know, we're having fun. And so I asked them a trivia question. I said, what's the. What's one of the physical things that humans can do better than almost any other animal? And so everybody's always like, I don't know, run is real. Yeah, run for distance. We're actually made. If we're, if we're made to do anything physically, there's another one. But one of them is to run. We have these big knee joints. We have these huge glutes. We're on, we're. We're on two legs. And they actually used to do this contest. There used to be a contest that they stopped a while ago, but it used to be a man versus horse. And it was a long distance run. And about 50% of the time or so the human would win. And you think to yourself, how does a human beat a horse? Well, it wasn't for speed, it was for distance. Yeah. And a fit human can out track or out distance run pretty much any other animal. We're actually really, really good at running. Which sounds crazy because the average person would say, no, we're not. Look around, we've all lost the skill.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, most hunting, it's like, yeah, you, you might have been successful in actually like spearing or.

[Sal DeStefano]

Never falls down right there.

[Justin Andrews]

Never falls down. You got to track them for a while.

[Sal DeStefano]

They bleed out and they're normally, I mean, after them. We've, you know, we've evolved weaponry where like more. Yeah, but that's. Come on. The first bow and arrow was probably barely got it, you know, I'm saying it was like enough to break the hide for a while. Yeah. They had to bleed out and they probably. The animals probably got pretty far before.

[Adam Schafer]

And they're faster than we are.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Before you track them down.

[Adam Schafer]

And this is, it's a personal one for me because, you know, we were laughing at this earlier. Like, was it a couple weeks ago? But I was running because my wife was burning some taco shells. I heard her say fire. And I ran and I'm running and I'm running slow, dude. And I'm like, man, I gotta practice.

[Sal DeStefano]

It feels fast though, right?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's not, dude. That's how. Just that's how my mind now is like, I'm. Oh crap, I'm losing the skill of running. Yeah, I should practice running. It's. It's a fundamental human Movement. That doesn't mean you gotta go run

[Justin Andrews]

like really deceptive one too because in your mind you feel like you maintain these abilities.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And even though it's been like decades or so since you've done it and then go apply it, you know, and it's like it's, you're, you're talking to a foreign, like it's a foreign language to your body now.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally, totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, I talk about stuff like that whenever we go to truck. You always ride the bikes and stuff like that. And I remember for a long time as a kid I would ride my bike all day long with not using my hands.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know if you guys have tried that.

[Adam Schafer]

No,

[Justin Andrews]

it's stacked.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's way harder than I thought it. Like it's like, wow, this is so crazy. Like I can't do this. Like I would do that forever. I would ride around on my, on my bike and not use the handlebars and pedal it for 15 minutes straight. No big deal. And I can't do that. Like it's wild how, how quickly your body just adapts. Yeah, we don't need this.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't want to lose a skill. You just got to keep practicing. I worked with this really good physical therapist years ago and she had clients that she would work with who were in advanced age and they'd come to her for, you know, very specific issues. And I would hear, and I heard this more than once where, where one of her clients says, hey, should I start using a cane or a walker? And she's like, we won't use that until it's absolutely necessary. Because the second you start using that regularly, your ability to walk without it goes. Totally goes.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, this was the, in my opinion, when I think of the best thing that CrossFit did was was this was even though the way it was programmed. But the, the, the philosophy of being able to do.

[Adam Schafer]

I get the philosophy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Because they, they, they incorporated throwing. They obviously running. Every movement pattern you're going to cover was part of it. Now the unfortunate part was you put that in a competition setting which is not the ideal way to do that because then you get a bunch of middle aged people.

[Adam Schafer]

Listen.

[Sal DeStefano]

That are trying as hard as they can to do it, which is like you'd be better off. You just did all that stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm so glad you said that because I'm referring these to these as abilities and stuff skills. Because there's a way to do it where it's, where it works. If you don't. If you lost the skill because you stopped running or you stop doing these

[Sal DeStefano]

things, signing up for ultra marathon is not a good idea.

[Adam Schafer]

No. Because fatigue throws skill out the window. Anything under fatigue, your skill goes down no matter what. So the idea is to practice and regain the skill before you ever try

[Justin Andrews]

doing it to fatigue under low intensity and work your way up, you know, progressively. Yeah. So I. I mean, jumping has to be in.

[Adam Schafer]

Jumping's there. Jumping is one of them. And it's funny, dude. You guys, listen. This is a real skill. And by the way, you take the typical deconditioned 60 year old and they can barely jump.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Many of them can't jump 60, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Take your typical deconditioned 40 year old. Well, they can at least get off the ground. I mean. Yeah, I mean, yeah, but like, you know, give them a little stand. I mean, maybe this thing right in front of us and watch them try.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, it's a good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stare at the jump at it.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, it's a good test of that. By the way, if someone's listening right now in their middle age, like, I could jump. Jump off of something that's kind of. And land.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, don't do that. And you'll know that you close your

[Adam Schafer]

knees, you'll know your skill is gone because it feels like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Can you lay soft? Well, I mean, I shared that. That was a couple years ago on the podcast when I had just gone. Probably a few years of not training that way. In fact, plyo boxes were pretty regularly in my routine that I would. Or intermittently I should say. But I would never go six months and not plyo box something. Right. And I hadn't for a couple years, probably three, four years straight. And I remember jumping out of the. I have a lifted truck. I remember just jumping out, like, just. And I thought my knees were gonna explode. Yeah. And it's just like that is. I mean, that's a skill that I. I had and was just. Yeah, and I did.

[Adam Schafer]

I was like, oh my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I lost that. I lost that. I lost that skill. My brain didn't though. Like, I felt like I'd done that a million times, I should be able to do it, but it's like I hadn't adapted to that. And it's like, yeah, if you don't slowly retrain it back, you will. Absolutely.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what skill I totally lost? Like. Like it's not good at all. In fact, it's makes me really upset because, you know, I'll go to events like for my kids. My son just started playing soccer. Sitting comfortably on the ground. It's. I don't have it. Oh, yeah, you make me sit on the ground.

[Justin Andrews]

Hard one for me, too.

[Adam Schafer]

You make me sit on the ground. And five, 10 minutes in, I'm like, this hurts. I'm like, I'm ruining a, like, 90 90s. Yeah, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is my personal. Like, when I think of, like, the last decade that I'm most proud of was the work I put into mobility because I'll sit in a squat.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of times when I. When Max and I.

[Adam Schafer]

You did that with your son. Oh, your son was a big motivation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And that. That has been. And so a lot of times when we're like, we're sitting on a lawn or doing something like that, I'll. I'll do it in a squatted position for half the time, you know, like, just because that's become comfortable, which is crazy to think, because I remember how uncomfortable that was just, you know, seven, eight years ago.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, here's another one. This is not one of the ones that makes a list, but it's just one that noticed with clients being able to lay on a flat surface on your back. This sounds crazy, but a lot of people, their head. They have a tough time with their head laying fully back. In fact, with clients, we would often have to put towels or something under their head because. Yeah, laying on a flat surface or their head would be cocked like this.

[Sal DeStefano]

How forward. Had that? How forward. And that's worse today than it's ever been. Super bad iPhones and stuff like that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That's right. For sure. All right, the last one is throwing. This is the other ability. So running and throwing are two things that humans do better than any other animal, especially throwing. We throw with incredible accuracy. And if you don't practice throwing regularly, your ability to do this without hurting yourself goes away, and eventually you can't do it. Now, you might think yourself, why do I need to practice throwing if I'm not going to throw? It's really good for shoulder health. It's very good for shoulder health. Just the momentum, the slowing down, the momentum, the relationship between the prime movers and the stabilizers, the way the scapula,

[Justin Andrews]

T spine rotation is necessary, all that. Yeah, everything. I mean, you know, some way to kind of build that up, too. And this is why we emphasized windmills so much, because, like, you know, a lot of the body's ability to do. It's a pretty complex movement. If you break down A throw what all has to transpond from there. So it's like, you know, working on something like that really helps your body to understand. Like okay, we're going to need all down the kinetic chain to work in unison with this in order to now

[Adam Schafer]

add velocity and think of all the things that are happening together that are beneficial for the body. When you lose the ability to throw. It's not just that you can't throw. There's a lot of things there that you miss out as a result.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I wanna, I wanna, I wanna fight for Justin's that he said. Because I, I could make a case for it getting, getting above some of the ones that you said, which is the balance. I think balance has to be. Hey, my mother in law just happened, just happened last weekend and she was down and out for three days. Bruise this big on her hip. She was out in her. And she's very active and strength trains, but her stability and balance isn't really there. And she was pushing down soil in a pot. She took her foot and she was stomping down and the balance, lost her balance. So just went.

[Adam Schafer]

So balance is, the balance is very important. But the reason why it's not on the list is if you maintain the ability to run and jump, balance is typically there along with strength. You typically won't find somebody that can jump well and run well with terrible balance.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's a prerequisite.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. But, but now here's the deal. Like at her, at her level, you're gonna focus on balance. Before that you're gonna have to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not jump boxing. No, I'm not jump boxing with her and having her run yet. So she'll. And that's where I got a lot of clients in fact. Yes, there was a, a real, a standard balance on one leg and then you have them forward, side, back. Right. So now like I'd have a client do that 10 times and working up to doing 10 without losing your balance was very difficult. In fact, I bet a lot of people listening right now, I bet you you can't. You cannot stand on one leg and balance and swing your leg forward, swing your leg back, swing your leg out 10 times without losing your balance to do that.

[Justin Andrews]

And then I'd add rotation. So you'd have to actually look, you

[Sal DeStefano]

know, so I, so I, I, I love talking about stuff like this too because, just because the fact that we're getting older and I think about this stuff, I always, not a week goes by that I Don't put my socks on. Standing on one leg with that in mind.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I, if I, I. Because I don't want to lose that. And so I will get my socks out of my drawer and I will balance on one leg. And. And it gets to a point where sometimes it's a struggle. It's not like it used to be when I was 20 and, oh, my

[Justin Andrews]

right hip flexor fights me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. I have to, I, I have to work to do it.

[Adam Schafer]

And so I refuse to put my socks on sitting down. I refuse to do the old man. Yeah, cross your leg over, put your sock on thing. Not going to do it. Yeah. I'm not the noises yet, but it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

We talk a lot, right. About how we, we build. This is also, again, when you have a really good trainer, I feel like this is. These are the types of conversations that we would have with clients. And I would, I would give these little tips to my clients, like, hey, try putting your socks on always. Yeah. Balancing on one foot and just. That habit is a great habit.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I want to be clear, too, because someone who's like, fit right now and works out like I do is listening to this, be like, well, I'm fit and I work out, you lose these skills. I don't care how fit you are. Yeah. I don't care.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you don't practice these skills, you're 9% body fat.

[Justin Andrews]

You see the running, the jumping, that's it, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of people running, jumping, balance. I haven't.

[Adam Schafer]

I've never stopped working out. I've been working out since I was 14. I'm very consistent with working out. I've got low body fat percentage, got muscle, whole deal. And I'm losing the ability to run well and jump because I never practiced them. I've already lost the ability to sit on the floor comfortably. And that's somebody who works out all the time. So if you're listening, you're a fit person. Typically, these are people who are focused on the aesthetic or simply focused on one style of exercise that's their favorite style. You'll lose this ability no matter how much you go to the gym, if you don't practice them.

[Sal DeStefano]

So anyway, it's hard. Right. Because what you just hit briefly right there is that mo. This is what motivates most people to, to work towards.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That the health journey is like, I want to look better.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or I'm carrying this, this gut. I don't like it. And so let's get rid of it. Type of deal. I'm trying to think of, like, what percentage of my club. Very few clients. I think there was a percentage maybe 10 that came in that, like, had that kind of holistic mindset to start,

[Adam Schafer]

but it's usually because it's been so far down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly. They've known something's happened that they're, they're forced in that it's like, like five engine restricted. Yeah, yeah. It's like now. Now we want to, like, repair. Yeah, yeah, but it's. But yeah, no, I can't. I can't stress some of those, Those skills and any way that you can, you know, find it in your routine. I'm sure Justin's really good about this with all the rotational stuff. Like, I try to be good about things like that where I just intentionally do it, you know, I love too, the new one for me, because I've never. It's. Or it's been a long time since I was a kid that I've had a pool and so, like, like swimming.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And like. Yeah, like, I'll literally do. Swim a few freestyle breaststrokes, things like that.

[Justin Andrews]

It's just trying to regain that one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I think, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

And that's such a good. That's a good easy, like, it doesn't provide. It provides a little bit of resistance. It's safe to do that.

[Adam Schafer]

You stress your whole body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. And so it's such a speedo.

[Adam Schafer]

It's such a speed up.

[Justin Andrews]

Adam does.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you really go in there naked?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, we naked swim all the time.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You can't see in my backyard. Would you not naked swim if you.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, we've done it. That's how we broke our pool open.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

Wait, you just all jump in? You got kids?

[Justin Andrews]

No, just me and my wife.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, your teenage boys.

[Justin Andrews]

We had to close the gates.

[Sal DeStefano]

We've done it so much. Well, we've done it so much. So yesterday we were swimming as a family yesterday, and we're doing some backyard work right now. And so we have construction guys that are coming in and out, and they had already left for the day, but I get home, and I had already set the pool to where it would be a little bit warmer than the freezing cold. Right. So I, I, I come in and I, I told Katrina, I said, hey, tell Max I, I heated the pool up for us so we can hang out in the backyard on swim today. And she's like, oh, he's gonna be excited. And I come. I was like, I walked out the Door. And here comes my son down the stairs. Remind you he's almost seven now, right? It's ass naked. You know, like, hey, hey, buddy.

[Justin Andrews]

Freeze a bird.

[Sal DeStefano]

Today's a short day. You know, we're swimming in shorts.

[Adam Schafer]

Because then we have.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's like, oh, come on, man. Yeah, we have people coming that might be contractors coming in the backyard. So. And so he puts his shorts.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm the worst. Because I can't. There's nothing. I'm sure. I don't know if you sure you guys like this too? There's nothing I can do with my wife, like, swim naked or whatever where we're naked, and then I'm not immediately. I'm not going in that direction.

[Justin Andrews]

You're not going to take advantage.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we can't. We can't enjoy the swimming because now I'm like, oh, well, now all I'm thinking about is I would.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that, like.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that, like, if my wife calls me in the bathroom, she's taking a shower and she has something important to tell me, and she calls me in there, I'm like. I look. I'm looking down like this. It's like, why won't you look at me? You know why? Because if I notice, then I have

[Sal DeStefano]

to imagine that's the difference between. Because I feel like, Katrina, I have very high sex drives. I think that's something to do with one kid and four kids. Right. Like, you guys have less opportunity. And so if that. You're in a situation like that, I'm

[Adam Schafer]

gonna test that out. I'm gonna tell my wife, be naked in front of me every day. Let's see how long it takes for me to not. Yeah. I don't know, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

I feel satisfied.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I feel like. I wonder why that. Why that is that. That I can handle that. You know what I'm saying? And because maybe because it's like, I. We. We're not ever short of opportunity where I think if I had multiple kids, I could see where you guys would maybe.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm sure that plays a role. Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Right. You guys have less. Less. You guys are playing defense more than I am.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So I. So I pulled up. So I'm gonna change. I pull some numbers on red light therapy. Because we talk about red light therapy, its benefit. And I'm like, what do the studies show in terms of the. The type of red light, the wavelength, you know that it uses the.

[Sal DeStefano]

I look this up.

[Adam Schafer]

So check this out.

[Sal DeStefano]

First off, it's like half the time.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, check this. No, dude, it's worse.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So the studies on red light. So red light therapy has been shown in studies just for people who aren't familiar with this. This is a wavelength of light that when you put it on any ball, any cell, it accelerates the production of energy of the mitochondria. So you put it on your scalp. Now the, the cells in your scalp are more likely to grow hair. So it regrows hair better. Put it on your skin, your skin rejuvenates, you put it on muscles that recover faster, probably build. Build even more. In fact, there's some studies that compare, like right arm to left arm. The one with the red light therapy actually got more muscle. You could shine it on areas that produce testosterone, you'll produce more. So it sounds crazy, but there's so much studies around it. It's been around for decades. We've known this for a long time. So it's not like, woo, this is actual real stuff. But I looked up and I said, okay, what are this? What wavelengths are they using, these studies? Well, there's red light, which is 630 to 660 nanometers, and near infrared, which is 810 to 850 plus nanometers. If it's outside of that, it is nothing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, if it's outside, it's ineffective.

[Adam Schafer]

The studies show it's ineffective.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

So if you're buying red light.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, see, so I thought it was. So I did this. So I've had family, right, that. Oh, hey, I was looking, I was looking up juve and you know, I found this other one for like half the price or whatever like that. And I go, okay, well what's the nanometers on the, on the red light? And it was like half the wavelength. I'm like, well, okay. I just logically went like, well, if it's half of what it is, you're probably gonna have to sit in front of it for double time. And what the recommendation is on all the studies.

[Adam Schafer]

No, it's more like a waste of time. Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so here's the deal with red light panels. They used to be, because again, we have this, the studies go all the way back to the 60s. I think up until relatively recently, red light panels were so expensive. The ones that produce these nanometers, they were so expensive, like 15,000, $20,000, that the only place you would get them would be really expensive, like skin care and spa type places. So like if you went treatments. Yeah. So like in the year 2000 or whatever, you could go to some place in Beverly Hills. And you'd pay, you know, 300 bucks to be in front of this panel that probably cost them 15 grand or something like that. Well now like Juve, which by the way, Joovv is affordable, but it's not as cheap as stuff you get on Amazon. Joovv has panels that produce these wavelengths like the ones you find in studies.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

If you find panels that are like cheap or the ones that we put on the baseball cap or the face mask. Waste of time. Yeah, you're wasting your money. It's not in the. It's not producing the nanometers that have been shown in studies to have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, you may show me things. We're talking about juve right now. And Dylan, I hope this is possible. I know he's in the back right now. We're working on. We're working on a whole new system right here where we have the switcher system. It. Will it be possible for like right now, as we were just talking about Juve, Justin's commercial like running up as like in a square box in a corner.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, the one he did with the aliens? Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

At least the alien pop up the head.

[Howie Mandel]

Eventually anything's possible. But it's a tremendous amount of work to set all these things up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Once you have it set up on the switcher as a.

[Adam Schafer]

As a save there, it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's right though.

[Howie Mandel]

Yeah. No, I think it's possible for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I think like, I mean that that's. I want, I. I personally want that when we talk about some of the brands that he's done commercials for, I just, you know, we could do.

[Adam Schafer]

We could repost it on Instagram and point to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, well, I mean for now, for now that's cool. But I think it would be way cooler like right now. Why everyone was talking.

[Adam Schafer]

You have a little.

[Sal DeStefano]

The. Actually you can see Justin's ad that he did. We have to bring some of those back.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That was exciting. You did. I mean they were brilliant. They were just.

[Sal DeStefano]

How long did the juvenile take you?

[Adam Schafer]

Way ahead.

[Sal DeStefano]

How long did you want to take you to shoot? Do you remember?

[Justin Andrews]

That was like two days. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

We do like a major production.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, we did. It was like non stop. It's one of those things. I don't know, dude. I get in this weird mode where it's like, okay, then this, then this and I don't really pay attention to what time it is or like if I have eaten food. Yeah, it's just like Pure creative. Like, let's just get it out, you know, of my, of my mind. And yeah, I, I know we've done really long.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, I have.

[Adam Schafer]

I have a little bit of a, like a dream that one day I can like do something like that. Because I, I also get very creative with storytelling. Not with like, like you're.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll combine it at some point.

[Adam Schafer]

That would be fair.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I feel like Adam would have to loosen his.

[Adam Schafer]

The first springs a little bit to say it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I feel like in the. In the perfect scenario where we don't have other much more important things to be doing. Way more important.

[Justin Andrews]

It's always been the hitch, you know, it's like, it's just not.

[Adam Schafer]

How much money is it going to bring in?

[Sal DeStefano]

How does it cost us to do it?

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, speaking of exciting stuff, I haven't had as much fun writing a program as I've had I did recently with. It's not coming has not out yet. It's going to be out in like what, a month or two. The new PPL program. Yeah. Yeah. So next month, the most like frequently requested type of maps program is one that's a PPL split.

[Justin Andrews]

Isn't it weird we've avoided it, but it's like such a popular, everybody knows push pull lakes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

That's just kind of like a staple in the gym.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's. Well, it's a, It's a bodybuilding favorite.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a. It's a very, very.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you're. If you don't do a traditional single body part type, it's ppl.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, we've been trying so hard to, you know, tell people about like, you know, training the entire body, like total body workouts. And I think like, that's just one of those. We haven't visited that yet.

[Adam Schafer]

So a lot of people that would love this. And by the way, this will be the first time we did a male and female version. So for people as.

[Sal DeStefano]

As far as splits, ppl and upper lower have always been my favorite.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just, I. That's all. That's like kind of what I'll fall back to if I'm doing.

[Adam Schafer]

Especially if your volume's high.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. If I'm doing a split.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right now I'm more. Way more maps 15 type of protocol. But like, if I'm running that kind of volume, I love an upper lower or a push pull legs type of split is like my personal go to.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, same. So. So I. This morning I was thinking and we had time. This is My cardio week. So this is the time when I can, like, listen to books and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, what do we got? This is like the third or fourth week of cardio.

[Adam Schafer]

The fourth cardio week. So it's got to be. So it's. This is. Has it been a month? Two months already? Has it been two? No, it can't be that.

[Justin Andrews]

I posted about that today with Arnold. Had this one.

[Adam Schafer]

Come on.

[Justin Andrews]

Interaction with some guy. I don't know who, but he was making him do all these, like, calisthenic cardio moves.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I'm walking. Great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you. I was going to say, have you made it over?

[Justin Andrews]

No. Jazzercise.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you not even at three?

[Adam Schafer]

Trying. You know what it is? I'm really enjoying listening to books, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

You go any slower, you'll go back in time. 3.

[Adam Schafer]

I thought it was if you.

[Sal DeStefano]

3. 3 is not even walking dog. I don't think you could call it walking. Yeah, I don't think you have to be at 3 to call it walking. If you're under 3, that is not. You're like. You're basically kind of not standing still. You're not standing still.

[Adam Schafer]

Very slow stroll. But I'm listening to books and I'm having great thoughts. I'm thinking a lot about stuff. We communicate. And there was this one study that got me into this spiral of thought. So I'm going to back up and just for you guys, because this is. This is wisdom that we've learned through practice when it comes to training clients. So when you become an early trainer, a lot of what you do is tell your clients, don't do this, don't do this, don't do that, don't do that. Then you realize later on it's way more effective if you stop saying that and you tell them to do this. So in other words, I could tell, you know, you know, don't eat that, don't eat this. Or I could say, eat your body weight in grams of protein. Eat it first, and then don't worry about the rest. Why? Because it takes care of so many other things. But also psychologically, not doing something doesn't make sense. Doing something makes a lot of sense. And so I was thinking a lot. It's really got me down the spiral. So I read this study on teenagers and anxiety and depression. Jonathan Haidt talks about this quite a bit about this research. So for the first time ever, this younger generation has had worse anxiety and depression than older generations. This has never really happened before. Typically, that's the generation where they're like having a good time. And that, that the anxiety and depression is a kick in till middle age when you got kids and Morgan the whole deal. And yet we're seeing these kids just go through this terrible.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know where you're going.

[Adam Schafer]

And so he, he was going through the studies and he's like, what is the best protection against this? Like, what is it that's happening?

[Sal DeStefano]

I have a theory.

[Adam Schafer]

And what's going on? What is it?

[Sal DeStefano]

So I, you know, I think what you're highlighting right now is less to do with it's is how it's human behavior and leadership, which is it's a far better strategy in leading a team. It's a far better strategy in raising a kid. It's a far better strategy of clients and that is telling them to go do something versus don't do something.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. So here's what they found.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, like tell a kid to get into a thing or kid like, well,

[Adam Schafer]

so here's what they find a study. So the study starts out with like each, you know, additional hour of social media use was linked to lower overall flourishing and wellbeing. So that's connection between social media use and just worse and worse anxiety, depression. And so what we do is we point to social media. It's constantly bombarding them with images of perfect bodies. It's constantly showing them the news, a bunch of anxiety stuff, you know, scaring kids. So stay off social media. Stay off social media. Well, here's what they found in the data. Forget the social media kids that were really actively religiously participant participants. In other words, they were part of a strong church community. And I'll expand off that. It was like the best protection regardless of how much social media they used. If they were part of a very strong community, it almost had no effect. Now aside from the supernatural component. So if you're not religious, we could cut that out for a second. You'll find data that supports any strong together community.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was just gonna say I would imagine you would see similar data in belonging to a club sport team. And like anything that you, that, that keeps you occupied doing something in the real world with accountability built in with other people, with growth. And like in my.

[Adam Schafer]

It's so it's, it's not the same. So the religious community stuff was the best probably because it points in a really great direction. But you're right. Kids who are active in clubs and sports and activities with other people, it's a great protection. So it's less about the dangers of these bad things and more about what it's pulling us away from.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's really the isolation.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. So like, like, for example, sitting or resting people, like, don't sit too much. It's bad for you. Oh, my God. The more you sit. It's not the sitting that's bad. It's. That's taking you away from moving.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. It's not that processed foods are so bad for you. They are. But it's rather. It's taking you away from whole natural foods that actually have. They're better with their nutrients. They have natural breaks which make you not eat as much. So it's less about all this bad stuff. It's more about what is it pulling me away from. And one of the. One of the big things that just kept coming up.

[Justin Andrews]

The wolf that you're feeding. Right, the old analogy.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow, great one. That's right. So what kept coming up for me. What kept coming up for me was what we lost a lot of is real community. Real community. And so I had this call with my wife and I'm like, man, we have to continue to pursue community and friendships even outside of our comfort zone. Like, pursue it because people don't pursue it anymore. It's not natural like it used to be where people come knock on your door. It's just the way you do that. But now it's so unnatural that you have to kind of pursue it. And I told her, so this is the best. Rather, because she's really good about managing tech, managing tv. I said, honey, if we're just around people a lot, that's not going to be a problem.

[Justin Andrews]

It takes a lot of time regulating.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like going after your protein totally. It takes care of the rest of the stuff. It's a way better strategies than telling your kids, don't go on the thing or limit this. It's like, let's go do this thing.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, let's go do this thing. Or let's go meet up with these people. Or let's go play it.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, you're already so prone to, like, recognizing negative things. And so if we keep reinforcing, like, don't do this. Don't. Like, then it's. It's almost like hitting the golf ball. And don't hit the golf ball in the. In the pond. And then. Yeah, you're gonna hit the pond thinking in the pond.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But if you have a kid that's at home all day after school and they're just on their phones and you're like, get off your phone. Get off your phone.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Way better strategy is like, let's. We.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's go do something.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Or you got to be on your friends or you can even say something like this. I don't care if you're on your phone, so long as you do this and you do that, you're part of this community. You're part of that group.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Then I don't mind so much. And it's a, it's the most powerful protector against all of these things. And I was thinking about all this stuff. Like we talk about processed food. Think of pornography. Pornography definitely has its, its negatives. But what it's taking away, what it's taking us away from is intimacy. And that's the negative issue. That's the real negative thing is it's taking us away from, from those things. So just a totally different way to communicate these things and have a different understanding. So now it's like, as I talk with my wife, it's like, yeah, it's

[Justin Andrews]

a lot more effective.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I'm like, you know what? We're just gonna. Instead of like trying to manage stuff also, which we do instead, let's just, let's be busy with pursuing relationships and friendships and let's just let people in our home and who cares how messy it is and whatever.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, this, this goes back to what we were talking about just the other day too, about the. It's just unfortunate the area that we're at. There's less neighborhood stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was so common in my neighborhood. In fact, my, my son just two days ago got introduced to street hockey. So his, his best friend who's like the. Who's the sports fanatic, his dad, for his birthday, which was just last weekend, got him a hockey stick and a little, you know, ball and a net. And Max spent the day over there with them the other day and was all into it with them. And so it's like, that was like you would walk outside my house on a regular Tuesday at 4 o' clock in the afternoon, and there's kids out there would be doing that. My neighbors would be doing that. You couldn't wait to run out there and go do that. There was, there was community built in a lot with those things. And so. And even because I remember one of the things my best friend and I were like, you know, we had video games.

[Adam Schafer]

It was different, but it was. You guys played it together.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You hung out on each other.

[Sal DeStefano]

It didn't. This. The first of all, the science. The science wasn't there on the. The way they could make it with, like, the open loop theory. It got boring. You don't. We don't do it for a while. Try and beat a level. Then you get frustrated a lot harder. You die. Yeah. And then you're, like, over it for a while. I get tired of it.

[Adam Schafer]

You can't save the game.

[Sal DeStefano]

My mom never had to come in. My mom never had to come in and say, stop playing those video games. Get outside and play. Like, in fact, it was the other way around. Like, hey, make sure you're back by the time that sun comes down. If you don't, you know what I'm saying, you're in trouble. Like, you wanted to go outside because there was at. And then we had a park around the corner that you could walk to. There was always kids there. There was. It was never empty. It's like, man, parks are empty. Streets are empty. It's like, you just don't. Everybody is isolated like that. So it's like, you have to. As a parent, you've got to foster that. You have to go with intent and

[Adam Schafer]

by the way, to foster it. The best way to foster it is not telling your kids or even doing it with your kids, although that's great. Do stuff with your kids. It's. You yourself pursue community and relationships yourself so that people are over, so that you're over other people's houses. And oftentimes this is just the reality. Like, this is the conversation I had my wife. It's not so natural these days. So oftentimes you just got to be the host and you have to pursue now.

[Sal DeStefano]

I would think you would have so. Because I'm interested to see how this continues to play out with Max as he gets older. And I always talk about how your. Your family is similar to Katrina's with a lot of things. We're. We're with them a lot. Are you not with your family a lot?

[Adam Schafer]

So they're. They're. They're more spread out. So it's not as natural. It's not as easy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

So, like, my parents are. Are only about 13 minutes away.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But my brother's, like, 35 minutes away. My other sister's 40 minutes away. So my cousins are all kind of spread out now. So we get together for, like, birthdays and holidays, but we're not all, like, next to each other or we're close.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Now we have, like, a great church community, and so at least a couple days a week, we're with people, but. And my wife's Done this thing where she says Sundays are open house for us and we tell all of our friends after church, everybody come over, it doesn't matter. Just hang out. Yeah. And it's like you got to kind of make it happen. But man, you want to talk about protecting or defending yourselves and your kids against just what happens when you don't have that community. Just. You just got to be in it. You just got to be in it as much as possible.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Which is work.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You say it can be a lot of work for the way we've structured society is the opposite. It's the. It's so. It's.

[Adam Schafer]

Your schedule is off. The house isn't always so clean. What about this? What about that? Can't. You know, it's like it is work, but it's so worth it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the, and the default is, is so easy to default to, which is just the tv. And I mean the way we have stuff streaming, that's entertainment all the time. Like none of that stuff was there. So you kind of had to figure

[Adam Schafer]

it was too boring.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was, it was too being in the house watching television. And if you didn't catch that few hours right after school or the, the on the week, first thing in the morning on the weekend, it's like the rest of the time was like lame.

[Adam Schafer]

I tried to explain that to my 5 year old. I was like, you know, when we watch tv, if it was show wasn't on, it just wasn't on. He just couldn't process it. He's like, what do you mean? I'm like, I just try to explain. So there's a central place that would do what's called a broadcast. And the only time you could watch that show was when they were broadcasting. So you had to watch it. And if it wasn't on, then you couldn't watch it.

[Sal DeStefano]

See, I feel like we can as parents kind of again. Again. You knew we were going to kind of swing this way. Hopefully we get back in more people or more like this. But even though it's available all the time, you can still get back to like creating that. Like there's nothing that stops us as parents from going. Like cartoons are only Saturday mornings for sure. We've done this.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's your window.

[Sal DeStefano]

So we've kind of. So like Friday night at our house is movie night. It's the one night where we don't sit as a family around the dinner table and eat. We can, we can watch movies late into the night. Max is to stay at past his Bedtime. It's a treat. It's so. And he looks forward to it. It's Friday night. That's not every. Every night doesn't look like that. Every night there. The TV isn't on. We're not doing that. We're doing other things there. In the morning time on Saturday mornings is the times where he's allowed to get up and go down and watch cartoons in the morning. It allows Katrina and I to kind of like, slowly get up and start the day. And he knows he gets like an hour or two in the morning where you. So it's like, I feel like you can still. Even though that's accessible. Yeah, it's the discipline as the parent to not make it accessible all the time. It's like, oh. And so it's not weird that after that morning block, we don't do that anymore. That's all. We do that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. The default, again, is a. Points to. This is what I said to my friends, too. I said, you know, the default. I understood this for fitness. Like, the default. If you just live and allow yourself to live the way everybody else does, you're going to be unhealthy. You're also going to be unhealthy mentally and spiritually, not just physically. So you will. Your odds of being obese or having, you know, metabolic issues are very high. If you just. If you don't structure things and you don't have some kind of discipline. It's also very high for psychological issues and spiritual issues. If you don't, again, do the same thing, you have to, like, you always have to be a rebel. You can't live like everybody else, otherwise you'll be like everyone else.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, the positive side is that if we discipline ourselves to do it for enough, long enough period of time, like, it becomes. It becomes just like bad habits become bad, good habits become good habits.

[Justin Andrews]

We were.

[Sal DeStefano]

When we were over at my family's, my brother went to the. The liquor store over all there with the family. So with that, he came back and he brought me like, a Diet Coke. You brought something? He's like, oh, I was gonna bring the. The baby and ice cream, but I know he doesn't eat sugar. I said, you could have brought him one. I don't. That's done. Yeah, I already did the work. Like, he. Like, you could bring him something right now. And like, I know my son now, and that might. He'll eat it. Yeah. Take a couple bites of it, and then he'll give. Give me the rest of it.

[Justin Andrews]

It does get easier.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I see. It's. It's like, it's. It was a lot of work at the beginning. I was a bad guy and weird and all the things, you know, because that's just it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have to go through the uncomfortable bit of not normal and intent and having intention of setting those schedules and those boundaries and going and meeting with people and getting out of your comfort zone. But then you do it for an extended appearance. Just like working out or anything else. It becomes a part of you, and it's habit, and it's like, then you don't have to, like, reinforce that. And I feel like that's. I've. I felt like the things that we did a good job of doing that I look back now after six, seven years and go like, oh, it's not hard to men. And it doesn't mean there's that times where he's like, oh, I want to do more. Like, of course he. He's a kid. Of course he at. But it's like, no, you know, that. And Katrina, we don't do that. You know, we don't do that. And then it's like, okay, you know, of course he's gonna try, but that's it. We just. Then we shift him to another thing. Totally onto it.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally, totally. Adam, I was gonna ask you because you're the most consistent consumer of the Huel meal replacements.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

How you still liking them?

[Sal DeStefano]

Love them. The mocha flavor, the coffee one's my favorite, and strawberry banana.

[Adam Schafer]

So they're. They're non. They're vegan protein.

[Sal DeStefano]

They digest so really easy. Easy.

[Adam Schafer]

And. And I was looking at the protein sources. P is the most. That's the most predominant protein source. Pea protein is one of the highest branch amino acid sources of vegan protein. So it's like, considered one of the more anabolic. Yeah, Protein. So I was looking at the, you know, the back of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just. I mean, I love that it's. It's ready to drink, you know, so it's. It's easy.

[Adam Schafer]

I've.

[Sal DeStefano]

Shoot. I can't tell you.

[Justin Andrews]

They're really palatable, their energy drinks as much. I. I started drinking some of those.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. The pineapple one is really good.

[Adam Schafer]

How much caffeine's in one of them?

[Justin Andrews]

It was like 200, I believe.

[Adam Schafer]

Is it 200 or 152?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's 200.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So we have like five of them. It's a good supplement.

[Sal DeStefano]

The watermelon one, I didn't like the Watermelon. It was a little sweet, but I haven't tried the pineapple. And I'll try the pineapple.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's tasty. I liked it. So curious.

[Adam Schafer]

I had this. There was this fitness guy that posted this GLP protocol, and I thought it was so good. Yeah, I saw the post. I'm going to pull it up.

[Sal DeStefano]

As far as working out wise, like

[Adam Schafer]

what you do when you. Okay, you're going to use this GLP1 or a GLP. Here's what. Here's what you need to do. Okay. So. And he talks about how it works. It's actually. It's actually quite. Coach Woznowski, I don't know about his other content, but this was pretty good. So he talks about how it works. He came up with something, and I think it's his. It's actually quite smart. It's an acronym that he calls March. And he says, you need to focus on mitochondria absorption, resilience cycle and signal and hypertrophy. So what he says is, that totally

[Sal DeStefano]

makes sense to you.

[Adam Schafer]

You have no idea. So you need to make sure you have good mitochondrial health because otherwise the glucagon activation can actually cause more fatigue. Yeah, you need to make sure you have good gut health because it slows down gastric emptying. So if you already got bad gut health and then you go into glp, you're gonna have malabsorption issues. Then he talks about resilience and cortisol. He's like, look, losing 20 body weight in 12 months is a physiological stress. I'm like, absolutely is. So users with poor sleep and high baseline cortisol already overwhelmed. Not a good thing to go on. On top of that. Go on a GLP on a GLP one. And then he says, testosterone is a good idea for a lot of people who have gone to GLP to prevent the loss. And then he says, resistance training plus high protein. So he says this is the order of operation for the people he works with. Rather than throwing people in a glp. He's like, we gotta get.

[Justin Andrews]

You address all these first.

[Adam Schafer]

We're gonna address these things first to maximize its effect, minimize muscle loss. I thought this was one of the most comprehensive.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's the nerded you that says that. That's so the. That's so great for coaches.

[Adam Schafer]

That's exactly who it's for.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

I was gonna say he's speaking to coaches.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. No, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh.

[Adam Schafer]

The average person's like, what are you talking.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no, I Mean, like, you said that. I'm like, yeah, no, that did not.

[Justin Andrews]

So he's like, all those terms are just.

[Sal DeStefano]

But for a train, for a trainer, as a protocol to follow, like, think of that. I like that.

[Adam Schafer]

So he's like, fix your mitochondria, fix your gut, fix your stress response, optimize your hormones, treat and eat, train and eat for muscle, then add the compound.

[Justin Andrews]

I like the order of operations.

[Adam Schafer]

And I'm like, oh, my God. That's really, really.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like the said principle for, you know, you use. I mean, we know that, right, what the said principle is. But you tell a client, well, so

[Adam Schafer]

what this would look like for the average person wants to go on a glp, it's like, all right, we're going to start before you go on the glp, we're going to start with strength training. We're going to start with, you know, making sure we. We get good sleep. We're going to look at your gut health. We're going to make sure your gut health is good. Maybe use a probiotic. But if you need to treat yourself for things like sibo, we'll fix that. Then we're going to look at your hormone profile, get you healthy.

[Justin Andrews]

Healthy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, let's look at your hormone profile. Oh, your testosterone's low. We're going to put you on testosterone. If it doesn't raise through those other natural methods, then we're going to really focus on hitting the grams of protein. Now let's add the glp and then boom. Yes. You get great results. Minimal muscle. I thought it was really.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. For coaches and trainers, that's Wisnowski.

[Adam Schafer]

Coaching is the name of his.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's really. He doesn't even have a ton of followers either. I thought it was really, really good.

[Sal DeStefano]

How'd you come across that? You know, it just showed up.

[Adam Schafer]

It showed up in my. In my feed. And I'm rarely impressed by, like, coaches and trainers who post things on, like, jlp. A lot of it's like, you know,

[Sal DeStefano]

young guy, older guy.

[Adam Schafer]

With you, he looks like a young dude. Yeah, it looks like a young dude. I don't know his other stuff, so I don't know if his other content's great, but this particular post, I was like, really, really good. I'll give this guy a shout out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, from a coaching perspective, I think that's fine. That's really good. You're always looking for acronyms like that to remember to.

[Adam Schafer]

And also for coaches. What a great way to understand how you're going to work with someone on glp. Yeah. Yeah. Paleo Valley makes the best meat sticks you'll have. You'll find anywhere. This is fermented meat meaning it's already broken down, it's not dry, it tastes delicious. It's great for your gut. It's grass fed meat, high in protein on the go. The best meat sticks on the planet are Paleo Valley. Head over to paleo valley.com mind pump. That link will get you 15% off. Back to the show.

[Howie Mandel]

Our first question is from Danielle Kepix for walking lunges in your program. If we get to the point where grip is going before strength, is it better to stick with dumbbells or go to barbell back rack?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, this is when you go to the barbell. Yeah, yeah, definitely this is when you go to the barbell. Now there's another option. If you don't have a barbell or you're afraid of the balance is you could use wrist straps. This is one place where I would use wrist straps for a client because they're so strong that they're trying to use heavy dumbbells and they can't hold on to them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know the idea here is the lunges. So this is when I'm like, let's go and use.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean if you had one really heavy weight that you could sort of hold like a zercher.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh.

[Justin Andrews]

As you're doing it as well. But yeah, I mean that's probably going

[Adam Schafer]

to be your best barbell back rack. Walking lunges. One of my favorite exercises.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I prefer that if I have the space, if I have this, this space to do it, I like, I like that focus on the lunging part.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh bro, it's one of the best lower body.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean if I want to do some grip strength for the, I'll do just carries. You know what I'm saying? If I want to do something for that. But if, if I'm training legs and I want to go, I'm doing lunges, you know, properized.

[Adam Schafer]

This was with the walking lunges with the barbell on your back was Ronnie Coleman.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, there's a yellow spandex out in

[Adam Schafer]

the, he's in the parking lot out in Texas in the side. I do remember that he's got 135 on his back, back and it's at the end of his workout he's walking and you can see the veins through his pants in his legs.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think walking lunges are a really good exercise. Super functional you actually don't. It's a great muscle builder. There's not a lot of room in a lot of gyms to do that, especially if you train at a really popular time. So that's the unfortunate part. But if you've got the ability to do walking lunges, I, I think, think it's a, it's an awesome thing to incorporate. And if you can put the barbell on, it just takes.

[Adam Schafer]

That takes a lot of room. Yep. You got a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

You gotta have a lot of space. I mean, I used to do them in here all the time. Now that we have clients up in here all the time, I don't do them because we have so many people in here. Walking back, you can do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Like backstep lunges with the barbell.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. But I like, I like the locomotion of, of moving forward and, and the weight, I think, is so good because I, I'll even extend my stride. I'll even throw a little bit of a balance between steps. Like, it's such a great movement to play with.

[Howie Mandel]

Next question is from Brad Bod Fitness. What is the biggest mistake that trainers make when they go into business for themselves and leave the company or business they are working for?

[Sal DeStefano]

This is the one you were saying, do your thing. Well, this was a, this was so common. Right. So, I mean, most of my career I trained trainers. So at this point, it's been hundreds that have. That have worked for me. And it's inevitable. Once they got the experience, they got good and they realized, oh, man, the company's only giving me 50 or 30 of what this train, this client, and their clients love them.

[Adam Schafer]

Then they do the math.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. Then they do the math like, oh, my God, I would be making this much. And they go in, in. And listen, there's a. In this. I swear, I've seen this play out. As a good rule of thumb, if you are not the number one or number two trainer in your local gym, okay.

[Adam Schafer]

You have no business.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have no business going and trying to build your own business. And you will make less money. In fact, even some of my top guys and girls that were my number one trainer went out and they made it. And they were making close to the same amount of money, but they had to work way harder and way more stress. Yeah. A lot more hours. And just to make the same money they were making for me at the, at the Big Box Gym. And so. And, but. And the only ones that I ever saw surpass what they were making inside the Commercial gym were the the top trend that you got to be if you can't prove to be number one with the muscle of the gym and the, the, the the them carrying all the overhead and the stress of running

[Adam Schafer]

a business and you got leads in your gym all over the place.

[Justin Andrews]

You built in marketing everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

That is the biggest mistake because and to me that should be like if you want to do that I think it's a total good goal. You should prove to yourself you can be the top guy or girl in that facility before you make that leap. Otherwise you're setting yourself up.

[Adam Schafer]

That's 100 however hard. You could go into a big 40000 square foot big box gym as a brand new trainer and trying to become number one in that gym is a lot easier than doing your own business as a personal trainer outside of there. And it's a lot easier.

[Sal DeStefano]

And let me counter this argument before anybody who's already thinking in their head because I think think this is unethical is you're going like well all of my clients said they'll leave and I can do that quick math. I'll instantly the next month make more money than I'm making right now. Inep the inevitable will happen a one year or two years down the road. All those clients won't be with you still and you will have to go get your own business. And so even if you the next month could for one month or two months because they all leave the the gym and they all come to you, that to me is unethical because you didn't build that business. They may love you and say they're there just for you but they would have never met you had they not walked through that facility and that therefore that would have not happened. So you have to go prove to yourself that you can do that first.

[Adam Schafer]

Plus it's such a short term vision. I mean maybe they do come with you, maybe they do stay with you. What do you got a year or two and then what? Yeah, you still got to figure out

[Sal DeStefano]

how to build and you haven't learned the skills of true lead generation building a website like all that stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Now for people who are leaving their company that are not in fitness who want to become trainers. So somebody who's doing some other field.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is why we always say go to commercial box first.

[Adam Schafer]

That's it. The biggest mistake you can make is going off trying to build your own business or going to a small studio. I don't think that's a great starting point. Go to Big Box.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's training Wheels, it's the best place. It's training wheels for a lot of great reasons. Not just because they're taking care of the lease, they're taking all the overhead, the electricity, the lead generation, which are massive. But then you're also in a community of 5, 10, 15, 20 other trainers that have been doing this longer than you, that you can learn from, that you can ask questions from, like, it's

[Justin Andrews]

an incubator for growth, otherwise it's really difficult.

[Sal DeStefano]

Think of it, it's like getting paid to go to school.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And that. And that. And instead of what? And this is such an employee mindset to go, oh, I only make this much. And the company's making all this like you don't even know what it's like to run a multimillion dollar company. So get. That's an employee mindset to think that way. You need to first learn to be the best in your facility before you go take on the next new challenge, which is now you get to learn what it's like to go build a business like that, which is very difficult to do.

[Howie Mandel]

Next question is from Alex Ewan. How come Mind Pump has changed its tune on cannabis? What information came to light that made you change your minds?

[Adam Schafer]

So this is. I picked this question because it is quite true. If you listen to earlier.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's also geared towards you particularly.

[Adam Schafer]

It says, particularly me. I think all of us changed our tune to an extent. Right. I think to an extent. To an extent, like we're wiser. And I think, well, the data now is actually reflecting quite a bit. So early days there wasn't a ton of data and a lot of.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially the growing developing mind.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's really detrimental.

[Adam Schafer]

What we now see with cannabis is regular lose use. Definitely contributes to anxiety disorders, psychiatric issues. It really messes up the dopaminergic system of the brain to where, like the stoner, the stoner myth of the unmotivated stoner, it's actually kind of true. So whatever your natural inclination towards motivation is, it will generally lower over time if you use cannabis on a regular basis. Now, some people are like, well, when I smoke weed, I'm way more creative and whatever. Yeah, yeah. Keep doing that long enough and you'll start to find that you lack it without using it. And then when you use it, also

[Justin Andrews]

assess it the next day, it's really

[Adam Schafer]

like brilliant if it's really brilliant. So there's that. It's also more addictive than was originally believed. So it's not as addictive. As other things, but it still is addictive. It does impair your working memory. It does impair or contribute to things like depression over time changes the structure of the brain. And I'm just going to tell people right now, I noticed with myself I really started reducing my use. I didn't go off it completely until maybe the last couple years where I really don't ever use it. But even before that I started reducing my use because I started noticing that I just wasn't on the podcast. My memory wasn't as good, I wasn't as sharp. And I noticed when I go off for a little while, suddenly I was sharper on the podcast. I'm like, you know, and the podcast does challenge me more than everyday normal day to day stuff. But I'm like, you know, I don't want to be impaired and what's really the benefit of this for me anyway? So I do think there's some medicinal uses. I don't think it's as bad as alcohol necessarily, but it's not. I definitely changed my mind on how I talk about it for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I mean, my two cents, I'm still pro cannabis as much as I am pro glass of whiskey or pro glass of wine. That's where it's, it's been for me,

[Adam Schafer]

like occasional is what you're saying.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I think that that's, I've always looked at that way. And if you've listened to the podcast long enough, you remember before I had a kid and then once I had a kid, I always talked about the day that I would probably walk away from it because I don't want my son to smell it or see me do it. That what that translation looked like for me the last previous years. I set it up to where it was outside. So I, you know, as he's starting to get older, so he's now at an age where he's like, he's very aware of everything around him. He's a very smart, intelligent kid. And so it's been a half a year since I've had anything and I haven't, I didn't say, I didn't announce that on the podcast and say I'm quitting forever like because I'm not anti it and in the right occasion with my friends and really wanting it in a mood like that, I would have it, but I just haven't had that. I haven't had a situation where I

[Adam Schafer]

was like, so here's a question for this is I think someone might be thinking, thinking this you're okay with having the occasional glass of wine or whiskey with Max around, why not weed?

[Sal DeStefano]

Right? I just, I don't want him at a young age smoking weed, and I don't want it to be normalized like that. He can't. There's restrictions already in place for him with the alcohol. He can't have that till he's 21 years old. And if I, If I had to choose, I think that it's a slippier slope with weed because of all the positive benefits that are that come with it. In other words, I watched my. I've told the story before when I was in. In the Thick of cannabis, which was in my late 20s. I have a younger brother who is 13 years younger than me. And so he was just coming up in his teenage years, and he's got an older brother that is in the cannabis industry. And I remember he started smoking at a very young age. And. And his reasons behind it was, you know, he had a lot of anxiety and it would make him feel calm and normal. And I watched that slippery slope of it being like, I'm high all day long.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And. And I think that it was right in the height of all the positive sides of it. There's, there's, there's none of that information about alcohol. No one's coming out and being like, yeah, you drink, and it helps with this, and it's good for that. It's like. And so for the young brain, the young kid who hears all the positive benefits of cannabis and. And then also his dad also smokes like that. I think that's just an easy gateway for him to also adopt it.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's more, it's more. It can become more of an acceptable daily thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what I mean. That's why. That's what I'm saying. We're like. He still sees his dad occasionally have a glass of whiskey with his. His mom. And now. And I imagine they're coming an age where he'll want to try and taste it, and I'll cross that bridge, and I'm sure I will let him. And I think it all. No, it'll be something we have a conversation about. But I didn't want him seeing me smoke and smelling the smoke and thinking that's a normal thing. Like, I don't think that. I don't. I think that will be. It would be a harder challenge for me to convince him why he shouldn't, especially when everybody's talking about all the health benefits and how it's not bad and it's all like, I think that it would become something that he would start doing at a younger age, that I'm.

[Adam Schafer]

The other thing that I changed my mind on, because now we have data that totally counters what I thought. So I thought if you legalized it and regulated it, less people would use it, less kids would use it. And my. My theory was, well, if, you know, when it's kind of like, taboo, more people are going to want to use it, and if it's regulated, it's going to be safe.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a hard argument, though, Sal.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, well, here's what we see now in the data. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Everybody smokes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. But the data is not.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can't track something that was legal. And nobody's going to admit it before to now where they're tracking data. It's like, oh, no, they've got.

[Adam Schafer]

They've got really good data.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's still early. So I don't know if you remember this, but when we used to talk about this a long time ago and we talked about the kids way, way long ago, I was the one that was pro alcohol over. I'd rather my kid get into the Friday night after football game drinking than finding out that he's smoking all the time. Like, I. And you were like, what? That's crazy. It's way more dangerous to be drunk. And. And it's like, I think the. The weed thing is a slipperier slope than I'd rather handle the alcohol thing. And I still stand by that. Well, I'm in the same. I have not changed my opinion, so. No, no, they have cannabis. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

No, they have really good data, though, on use, on alcohol use, cannabis use, on drug use. And since legalization and regulation, it's gone. It's exploded in its. In its use. And you know what? Shame on me. This follows almost every other trend when we. Because the American market is so powerful, the marketing system. So powerful.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That when we legalize things, regulate them, we make it. People use it more. Because of the power of our system, our marketing system, and because of the market and how powerful it is and competitive it is, cannabis has just gotten stronger and stronger and stronger because now they can legally compete. And now it's like, I mean, God, listen. I mean, I was using Cannabis, you know, 10 years ago when we started the podcast, and I would go to the dispensary. That's back when it was still legal for medicinal use. So. And it wasn't a big deal. And I'd go In there. I remember finding something 18, 19, 20%. THC was a lot. You go into a dispensary now, try to find some under 24%.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

They've made it stronger and they've concentrated it. I'd say again, it's. It's.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Well too. To your point about alcohol, I think that even still, like you pay a price if you exceed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

So you have very. Like the alcohol poisoning, the blackouts, the, you know, the excessiveness of it. Like, I think, you know kids more. The exposure of that after experimenting, like that becomes a reality. And it's like, wow, this is kind of like, you know, there's. There's a line here. Whereas weed, I feel like there's less of that. That real rigid line of like this is really.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, there's way detriment to your point. There is way more kids getting high and going to school than they are getting drunk and going to school.

[Justin Andrews]

This is my problem because I see this.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm not okay often with.

[Justin Andrews]

With vaping, especially.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Because it's just. They can have in their pocket and they just puff and they're going about their day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hit their red drops in their eyes and they're hot. Like you're. There's no. I mean, you can't do that. There's always an exception rule. You know, it's an over generalization for him. You see, there's no kids, but there's no kids that are really getting drunk and going to school where there's kids getting high and going.

[Adam Schafer]

But there's also this which is interesting. This is. Which is interesting about cannabis. You can drink without getting buzzed and definitely without getting drunk. Like we could all hang out, have a glass of wine and. I don't even feel buzzed. Yeah. Nobody smokes weed to not get high. Nobody's ever. Oh, I like the taste. I'm not high. The point of smoking weed is to get high. Yeah. So it's like if every time you drank it was to get buzzed or drunk would be a good comparison.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so that's what I mean by it's a slippery. So. But that's what I've always said that I would rather my kid in high school, okay. Have experimented with alcohol than be smoking weed. It's a way slippier slope. And then the next thing you know, you're a pothead, you're high all the time and. And you close yourself on. I get more done when I'm high, you know. You're high, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what makes you think you get

[Justin Andrews]

more done yourself more too. And you get into the video games and you get into the self entertainment. You don't leave your house. Like there's some bit of at least a social component to alcohol. But I'm not even promoting alcohol. I'm just, you know, in comparison, like I look at all those things of how they're interacting with their friends and you know, how that affects like their community.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I think, I think of as a parent, I try and put myself where you guys are with high school kids. Right. Like if my son called me Friday at 11 o' clock at night because he got too drunk with his buddies and he's like, dad, I'm throwing up, I'm sick and I have to go pick him up. Like that's a conversation we're talking about. I'm super proud of him for calling me. Like I'm not even mad. I find out that he smoked weed at school. I'm livid. Like that total different experience for me like that. And I can see that happening. I'm sure a lot of parents that have high school kids have dealt with both those scenarios.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they're two very different scenarios for me. And so, so again I'm still, I'm consistent with how I felt about counting something now personally, you see, I haven't for half a year, but that has a lot to do with one the kratom thing that I went through. I was cleaning up, I was like, I'm getting everything out so I don't want no dependency or anything like that. So that just happened. I was like, may as well kick this because it's always been easy for me to kick and I've just stayed on that track this whole time. And Max is now getting to be seven years old. So it's like, I think it's too.

[Adam Schafer]

It's also important to understand this is just because I'm older. Anything that has the ability to affect your physiology in a way to where you, it alters your state of mind, anything is a slippery slope, whether it's alcohol, weed, kratom, anything. If you take something because you like this, the mind shift or the it changes your perception and it makes you quote unquote high in a way slippery slope because that's very easy to start seeking that out and to start not wanting to be sober.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, yeah, that's what I mean. That was the creative slope for me. Right. It starts off as this, this herbal thing that you justify and say it's no big deal. And then before, you know, it's. There's this dependency on something like that. But yeah, I mean, I, I, at least personally, I don't think that I've changed too. I don't know if you feel like I know you have more.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, I've been on kind of a weird path with that because I really wasn't a big fan of it. Like, coming into the podcast. Like, I, you know, I. All my friends were big stoners and like, I like that. I don't know, I prefer to be around people like that versus, like, you know, alcoholics or something. I wasn't like, super drawn to it, other than it, you know, just made me paranoid the few times I tried it. But I was again to everybody did it initially just to get really high. And so I was like, I wasn't interested in that. But then like realizing you could do like 5 milligrams and then it was a weird thing because I had the CBD kind of ratio to that. And then taking it as an edible form, like, it was a weird combination for me because I actually felt like I was regaining a bit of memory and it was like, actually kind of benefiting me in a medicinal way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so then I started kind of just to find that. And so it got to a point where it became too frequent. And so then now this is kind of like a chronic thing that I'm associating with, you know, being able to relax. But also I'm like, well, it's kind of like, it's good for me, you know, and so. And then I had to like, check myself because it was like a very much of, you know, my, my thoughts around it were. I'm just, I'm doing this a lot now and I'm like, I don't need to do this. And, and then being off of it, my started thinking more sharply and more clearly. So it's just been kind of a wrestling push, pull thing for me. I still occasionally will use it, you know, to, to kind of relax.

[Sal DeStefano]

And who's used it last out of all of us?

[Adam Schafer]

Boy, I don't know. I haven't done it in a long time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you. When's last time you did?

[Justin Andrews]

Probably me probably like a couple weeks ago.

[Sal DeStefano]

What the irony of that? How funny is that? Yeah, the guy who was like, anti it. Never, never did it before the podcast like that. Yeah, I. Mine was. Mine's been six months. But it's not because I like, that's

[Adam Schafer]

when you went off great on me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so. And. And I've like, people that have asked me because I haven't really talked about it publicly. I'm not like, coming out be like, oh, I'm never gonna do this again. I'm just like, yeah. I just. It's easy for me not to do

[Adam Schafer]

what's crazy for me.

[Justin Andrews]

I love it for music, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm gonna be honest.

[Sal DeStefano]

I see. Like you just did a trip with all your buddies. Like, I would do that if I was with you guys up there and I was into that. We're jamming. Like, I would so do that.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what's crazy? I have. Have zero. Cannabis has no pull on me anymore. I actually don't want to do it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Kratom. I will still get the temptation. I haven't touched it and I won't really. But it'll still have a little bit of a temptation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like the occasional, I'm tired, I'm stressed, whatever. I'll have the occasional, like, temptation. But weed has been like, it is gone.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't. I was completely. My opinion. Those aren't even the same universe because my, my body would way rather have an opiate feeling than a. Than a high flying give about. The weed's always been easy for me to kick. It's never been a dependency. No big deal. That's why it's like, not even right now. It's not a big deal. I'm not like, oh, I'm proud. I made six months. Like, that's not a big deal to me. And I. And I may tomorrow. It's like not that. But the opiate feeling is. That's a different. That's a. That's a hard.

[Adam Schafer]

That's the one. I'll still get the occasional temptation. I haven't done anything, thank God, but that's it. But weed, it's almost like. Almost like I don't want to feel that high.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you two had to have the weed conversation with your kids yet?

[Adam Schafer]

So my oldest, few times. My oldest is not like he's not drawn to anything at all. My daughter, we've had a couple conversations. Only 16, but those conversations are going to start kicking up now. Now that she's like playing sports and is more social. We'll talk about it a little bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

But what about you?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. I've had to have quite a few. And it's just because, you know, once you get through junior high, now he's in high school, it's like very prevalent, like all his friend groups, he has to like, actively seek friends that are, you know, not really not users, you know, to, to not have it around him all the time. And it's even he has friends that do use, but he doesn't, you know, and he, he opts out and they're, you know, he's been pretty good about that. But there's always the temptation because you're bored and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, like they're kind of pulling at them to, to try things and that kind of stuff. And so it's a constant communication I have to have because I know it's gonna happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

I. So if you guys get a chance, you should talk to our mutual friend Jason, who's got three daughters, all in high school and just now college. And he's obviously like, I. I love the dynamic and the relationship that he has with his girls. It's really cool. Just, they're just so upfront. He's very open about all that. And Jay, he occasionally smokes, so it's not like this hidden. Hidden secret or anything like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so he's talked to his. The way he's talked to his daughters. I think the thing that I. The takeaway for me having a younger kid that I think is just the most important, which is what you were just highlighting now is the communication is just the. It's. It's actually not that big of a deal if we talk about it. Like, if it's something that I'm aware of, dad knows we talk about and things like that and never losing that is because you can't control every single friend they have at. It's going to be at parties. It's going to be there. They're probably gonna try it whether you like, you know what I'm saying? And so I'd rather just be in the know of how his brain is thinking about it or if he's tried or thinking about, then to have him scared to death how I feel about it. And then it's like. And again, I think modeling is the best possibility. That's also why too he's. He's never seen his dad drunk. You know, doesn't mean I haven't been drunk. But he doesn't like, I'll have a glass of whiskey. But he's never seen me drunk. He's never seen me high. Like, I don't. And I'm not anti any of that stuff. I just don't want to model that. So it's. It makes that step when kids are all doing it. Oh, my dad does it occasionally too. So why not where it's like I feel like he's more likely to be like, I don't see my dad do this, like he's that. So I, that's the way I think.

[Adam Schafer]

I think that's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then just having that open conversation, you know.

[Howie Mandel]

Next question is from Rich Artizone. How does bumping fats help fix sleep disturbances?

[Adam Schafer]

So there's a couple ways. One is if you're not intaking enough fat, in other words, you're not hitting your essential fats, you're going to have more than sleep disturbances. You'll have hormone issues, cellular function issues. Fat is essential. You have to have a certain amount of fat. Now with. Now I know what the FD the RDA will say, but in my experience with my male clients, I never like them to go below 70 grams of fat and I never like my female clients go below 60.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, 60 and 80 for me.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Okay, so 60 and 80.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep, yep.

[Adam Schafer]

So. And I just found that this, that lower than that we would start to notice issues. The other thing is that for some people, they need more than that because it helps regulate their blood sugar. And if you get a spike of blood sugar in the middle of the night, it'll wake you up. And so sometimes having those fats before bed for some people is, helps them with their sleep. Totally. But this is one of the first things you'll notice if your fat intake, along with like skin, hair issues, hormone issues is you'll notice your sleep will be.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's the science on why, why we carved babies up before bed? Like so one of the things that they would do serotonin. Is that what it is?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, so. Yeah, so. So that's another one too. Some people carbohydrates before bed will get them to sleep really well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it depends on the.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think I'm like a baby.

[Adam Schafer]

I think that's me too. Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah. If you carve me up, up, carb me up before bed, I, I'll be,

[Adam Schafer]

oh, I'm going to sleep. Yeah, but it has to do with like, like two lower carbs. You start to mess with some neurotransmitter, you know, production. But yeah, fats are interesting. You don't see this as much today, I think, but when we were trainers this was a thing because we, we were in the 90s, everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's still, I'd say, I don't know if this is a male, female asking this, but with females it's, it still is pretty common. I, I still will look at a woman's diet sometimes when they'll ask me, okay, what do you think of what I'm eating right now? And I'm like, oh, I bump your fats a little bit. It's still a go to move chicken breasts and fish and go really lean and stuff. And a lot of times throw some fat in there. They're like, oh my God. Oh yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Amazing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And they cut things like people think, still think butter and whole milk and all those things are bad. And so there still is a little bit. And egg whites like. And so I'll see, I'll see some diet sometimes where I'm like, hey, bump your fats. And so it's still, it's not as prevalent as it was when we were young trainers, but it's, it still is.

[Adam Schafer]

Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram.

[Howie Mandel]

Mindpump Media thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at Mind. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until, until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Sal DeStefano]

The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app.

[Howie Mandel]

Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We Do It Gaming team take on Gilly The King Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travie McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right [e-mail] that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.