2824: Why Skipping Meals Is Hurting Your Metabolism

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2824: Why Skipping Meals Is Hurting Your Metabolism
Date: March 28, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

This episode of Mind Pump dives deep into the raw truth behind fasting, meal skipping, and their effects on metabolism, body composition, and overall health. The hosts challenge the resurgence of intermittent fasting as a fat loss trend, drawing on real-world coaching experience and the latest studies. They also answer live questions from listeners about nutrition during pregnancy, recovery from surgical menopause, and stubborn belly fat, delivering science-based and empathetic advice.

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Main Theme:

Is Skipping Meals—Especially Breakfast—Really Helping or Hurting Your Metabolism?

Sal, Adam, and Justin debunk the popular belief in fasting, especially as it’s recirculated across social media, highlighting the potential risks and explaining why, for most people, it's a poor long-term strategy for fat loss, muscle maintenance, and metabolic health.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fasting & Skipping Meals: Myths vs. Reality

• Social Media Myths: Rise in fasting trends due to social media and marketing, often without scientific backing.
  • “Fasting is making you fatter. Stop doing it.” (Sal, 02:10)
• Study Discussion: Sal references a large study of ~1700 individuals showing:
  • Skipping breakfast = 33% higher odds of elevated fasting blood glucose
  • 25% higher odds of hypertension
  • 40% higher odds of reduced HDL
  • 24-25% higher odds of full metabolic syndrome
  • “People who skip breakfast more than four times a week had these metabolic issues…” (Sal, 03:16)
• Nutrient Deficiency: Skipping meals, especially in active people, typically reduces overall protein intake and can worsen body composition.
  • “Almost everybody under eats protein…” (Adam, 05:01)
• Body Adaptation: The body quickly adapts to lower caloric intake, leading to lower energy, poorer workout performance, and metabolic downregulation.
• Long-Term Effects: Chronic fasting increases the likelihood of binging and disordered eating.
  • “Regular restriction results in binging later, disordered eating… If you’re skipping two meals… it’s nearly impossible to hit your protein target.” (Sal, 09:54, 12:03)
• Improved Blood Glucose with Protein Breakfast: Eating a high-protein breakfast stabilizes blood sugar for the rest of the day (09:54).

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2. Historical Context & When Does Fasting Make Sense?

• Fasting Origins: Historically associated with religion, spiritual practice, or medical therapies (epilepsy, gut rest), not weight loss.
  • “Fasting was first used for spiritual practice or certain gut health issues, nowhere else.” (Sal, 07:32)
• Only Appropriate in Special Cases:
  • Spiritual reasons
  • Short-term gut health
  • “Bigorexia”/athletes stuck in obsessive eating routines
• Autophagy & Health Claims: Calorie deficit—not fasting per se—initiates autophagy and other benefits; routine fasting offers no extra gain versus regular calorie restriction.

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3. Practical Advice: Structure, Psychology, and Routine

• Six Small Meals: While not necessary physiologically, frequent meals support better adherence and appetite control for most clients.
  • “Clients who eat regularly—every 2-3 hours—have better self-control and fewer binges.” (Adam, 14:48)
• Psychological Factors Matter Most: Diet adherence and outcomes are more about behaviors & mindset than “the perfect plan.”
  • “Diet is so much more about psychology and behavior than X’s and O’s.” (Sal, 19:37)
• Women Are More Sensitive: Chronic fasting can trigger significant hormonal issues, particularly in women (hair loss, burnout, stress hormones up).
  • “I’ve seen more burnout, hair falling out, and hormone issues in women who chronically fast, even if they hit their calories.” (Sal, 20:15)
• If You Must Restrict, Do Evenings—not Mornings: Preferably, restrict in the evening rather than skip breakfast for better health outcomes.

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4. GLP-1 Medications and Misconceptions

• Bone Loss Publicity: News on GLP-1 drugs weakening bones is likely tied to calorie deficits and undernutrition—not the drugs themselves.
  • “People on GLPs are just not eating enough—it’s predictable: lose muscle, bone mass, skin issues, etc.” (Sal, 21:29)
• Doctors & Pharma: Most doctors lack the time or training to coach behavior; future may see more drugs “stacked” to counter side effects.
• Relationship with Food Still Key: Powerful drugs don’t substitute for a healthy mindset and food habits; patients may continue unhealthy eating patterns.
  • “Even on GLP-1s, if relationship with food is off, people still reach for junk—even when sick from it.” (Adam, 24:44)

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5. Depth in Social Relationships

• Community vs. Acquaintances: Depth, not breadth, of friendships is vital for mental and emotional health.
  • “We confuse the breadth of friendships with depth…” (Sal, 31:35)
• Men, Vulnerability, and Curated Circles:
  • Real vulnerability is sharing and seeking help, not just projecting strength.
  • Men especially benefit from friendships across life stages—peers, mentors, and mentees.
  • “You need friends in different life stages: your age, older mentors, and younger ones to mentor.” (Sal, 40:25)
  • “I really do believe you’re the average of the five people you spend most time with.” (Adam, 38:44)
• Advice for Younger Men: Slowly invest more time in positive, wise circles, and seek mentors.

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6. Conspiracy Theories, Declassified Docs, and Societal Distrust

• Recent Declassifications: Hosts have fun discussing recent CIA document releases confirming past “conspiracies” (weather modification, mind control programs, chemtrails, etc.)
  • “All the conspiracy theories are turning out to be true…” (Sal, 46:06)
• Overload and Gaslighting: Overwhelming information leads people to tune out or distrust everything.
  • “Eventually, this is going to be so much, people will just tune it out…” (Adam, 51:52)
• Pop Culture Tangents: Bigfoot sightings, meme culture, and humor around the uptick in “confirmed” conspiracies.

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• Sal:
  “Fasting is making you fatter. Stop doing it.” (02:10) “People who skip breakfast have 33% higher odds of bad blood glucose…” (03:16) “High protein or optimal protein for fat loss is around one gram per pound of target bodyweight..." (11:35)

• Adam:
  “Almost everybody under eats protein… You skip another meal, now it’s way too low.” (05:01) “Clients who eat regularly every 2-3 hours have better self-control, fewer binges at night.” (14:48)

• Justin:
  “The reduction in calories [from fasting]… is an initial benefit. But your energy will quickly dip and progress stalls.” (07:11)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:10: Sal’s hot take: “Fasting is making you fatter.”
• 03:16: Study cites dramatic increases in metabolic syndrome from skipping breakfast.
• 09:54: Protein in the morning controls blood glucose all day.
• 12:03: Binging, disordered eating from meal-restriction habits.
• 14:48: Anecdotal client insights—controlled eating leads to better results.
• 20:15: Unique fasting risks for women—burnout, hair loss, hormone disruption.
• 21:29: GLP-1 medications, calorie restriction, and media misconceptions.
• 31:35 - 44:44: Segment on friendship depth, men’s vulnerability, curating circles of support.
• 46:06 - 55:00: Conspiracy theory segment—with laughs and cultural commentary.

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Listener Q&A Highlights

Lisa – Training & Nutrition for Pregnancy

[64:03 - 81:08]

• Context: Postpartum recovery with history of hypothalamic amenorrhea, plans for second child.
• Advice: Maintain calories (~2500), focus not on cutting but on strength and muscle preservation; use gentle, consistent routine (recommend MAPS 15 & postpartum approach); prioritize protein and don’t rush postpartum “bounce back.”
• Key Quote (“If you need a goal, it’s just to get stronger.” Sal, 67:12)
• Advice for body fat goals: wait until postpartum is stabilized; mid-high 20% is ideal for health and fertility.

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Taryn – Rebuilding Health Post-Surgical Menopause

[84:15 - 91:33]

• Context: Hysterectomy, ovary removal, surgical menopause at 39, busy work/family life.
• Advice: Prioritize gentle strength training (MAPS 15), 8-10k steps daily, avoid overstressing, incremental strength gains, and consider individualized coaching.
• Key Quote:
  “The focus should be...on strengthening—muscle is very protective, and less stress than endurance training.” (Sal, 87:20)

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Vanessa – Belly Bloat/Fat & Bodybuilding Prep

[93:25 - 105:26]

• Context: 47, 5’11”, strong history but struggles with midsection puffiness, prepping for bikini comp, low-carb diet, working nights.
• Advice: Some self-image distortion likely; at 1,600 daily calories, far too low for her size/activity; advised on slow reverse diet (add 200 cal/week), with calories mostly from carbs, maintain protein, and focus on strength. No prep/cutting until at least 2,700+ calories.
• Key Quote:
  “No way I’d let you prep for bikini at 1,600 calories—you need to reverse diet up to high 2,000’s first.” (Adam, 101:19)
• Pro tip: Reverse dieting restores energy, improves body composition before a future cut.

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Memorable Moments & Humor

• Chemtrails Declassified: Hosts jokingly lament that conspiracy theorists are now “batting a thousand.” (“All the conspiracy theorists…are just right all the time right now.” - Sal, 46:06)
• Bigfoot & Ancient Aliens: Playful banter about the recent uptick in Bigfoot sightings and possible connections to aliens or interdimensional demons.
• Modeling with a Fat Face: Adam jokes about lacking the jawline to be a clothing model.
• Coach Brakes: Adam reminds listeners that a good coach not only gives guidance but “presses the brakes” when a client wants to overdo it.
• Vulnerability as Real Strength:
  “Real vulnerability means you’re not helping anybody—just asking for help. That’s hard.” (Sal, 35:38)

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Takeaway Messages

• Skipping meals—especially breakfast—can hurt, not help, your health/metabolism for most people.
• Fasting for fat loss is overhyped; adherence, behavior, and balanced routines win every time.
• Prioritize high-protein meals and regular eating; psychological satisfaction matters.
• Women are especially vulnerable to negative effects of chronic fasting or undereating.
• When facing medical complexities (menopause, surgeries, postpartum), gentle strength training and adequate nutrition are crucial.
• Build meaningful, deep relationships for overall health—curate your circle with intention and seek mentorship.
• And for those prepping for physique competitions: build your metabolism first—don’t diet from a low baseline.

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Resources/References for Listeners

• MAPS Fitness Programs
• Find Mind Pump on Instagram
• For coaching or questions, check Mind Pump Podcast site or mpLifeCaller.com

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This summary is designed for those who didn’t listen to the episode but want the full spectrum of facts, science, advice, and signature Mind Pump banter. It captures the unfiltered, science-driven, and often irreverent spirit of the hosts.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Doug]

If you want to p and expand

[Sal DeStefano]

your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts

[Doug]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews,

[Sal DeStefano]

you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In this episode we answered live callers questions. People called in, we got to coach them on air. But this was after the intro part of the episode. The intro was 61 minutes long. Let's talk about fitness, current events, fat loss, muscle gain, conspiracy theories, sometimes good time. By the way, if you want to call in, here's what you do. Submit your question to mplifecaller.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is nphormones.com get testosterone therapy, hormone therapy, peptide therapy from real medical practitioners, FDA regulated compound pharmacies. None of that gray market stuff. It's the real deal. Go to mphormones. This episode is also brought to by Vuori. This is the best athleisure wear you'll find anywhere. Lasts a long time. It looks great. You know who they are. By the way, you can get 20% off with our link. Go to vuoriclothing.com mindpump that's V U O R I clothing.com mindpump we also have four days left for our brand new workout program bundle, the Spring bundle, Maps, Symmetry, Maps prime and the Advanced Training Techniques guide. All of that together combined over 50% off. Head over to mapsmarch.com all right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Hit pause.

[Justin Andrews]

Head on over to my pumpstore.com that's it.

[Adam Schafer]

Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

You want to lose weight? So you thought fasting Was a good idea. Skipping breakfast, great idea, right? Easy way to control calories. No. Fasting is making you fatter. Stop doing it. Let's get it hot.

[Justin Andrews]

Take.

[Adam Schafer]

We haven't said that in a minute.

[Sal DeStefano]

We haven't. I. This is coming up because I have a friend of mine who, you know, he trains Jiu jitsu, lifts weights, and, you know, of course he's sending me the articles. Not articles typically. They're like Instagram posts on fasting. Oh, it's good for you, dude. I should do this, I should do that. I'm like, listen, definitely not a good idea, especially for someone like you who trains in Jiu Jitsu and lift weights. You already have a trouble hitting your protein intake. This, that, and the other.

[Justin Andrews]

You need nutrients.

[Adam Schafer]

Nutrients.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he's just, you know, he's just debating and arguing with me. He thinks it's a great idea. So, you know, I'm like, all right, cool. Let me just show you a study. So I'll. I'll send. I'll kind of go over the study on fat. We actually have good studies now on fasting, and it's in comparing it to controlled calorie diets, or in other words, diets that are similar, but the difference being, you know, it's fasted or not.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And here's. Here's one of the ones that I. That I found. And this was done with, I don't know, 1700 individuals, and this is the relationship they found with skipping breakfast. Okay. So people who skip breakfast more than four times a week had 33% higher odds of elevated fasting blood glucose, 25% higher odds of hypertension, 40% higher odds of reduced HDL. And overall, they had 24 to 25% higher odds of full metabolic syndrome. So those are the associations with people who skipped breakfast. And so I just. We need to. We need to tackle this because fasting is. It's again, it's coming around again as this, like, great way to. To lose weight. It's terrible.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. It's funny because it's something that. It's been around forever. You know, it's one of those. Another classic example, not eating in the space, you know, that we. We've taken and broke down some of the positive benefits from it and then exacerbated it and marketed the. Out of it. And it's sell it. Yeah. And then sell it. And then it's turned into a trend. And then now there's, you know, supplements that you should take while you're fasted. So you don't, you know, so you minimize the muscle loss and all the. And so it's just like we've totally have bastardized the true meaning of fasting and the intent of it and where that, where it originated from and turned it into a marketing ploy to get people to buy more stuff. And, you know, I, I think there's tremendous value in, in fasting. In fact, there's many times where I'm like, you know what, I should get back to where I was like trying to fast at least once.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm guess you're not doing it for fat loss.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, of course not. I think that's. We all agree that it's a terrible strategy for fat loss and you always will get pushed back from somebody like, well, I did it and I lost all this weight and it's just like, yeah, it's okay, great. There's a lot of different things that you can do temporarily just to lose weight. But there's a couple things why I don't like it because when I look back at all the people that I've trained, and you've heard this probably many times in the podcast, that's repeat and it still stands true. And our live callers that we take every single week, the same thing. Almost everybody under eats protein. Unless you've been listening to the show and you've now adopted that, you focus on that. People that are just kind of eat or do their thing typically are carb heavy, a lot of sugars, high fats, and don't hit high protein. And you take somebody like that and you skip a whole nother meal or two. Yeah, right. Or two. You may reduce the calories temporarily in that person, but you also end up cutting into some of their protein intake that was already low. So now they're even now. Now they're getting really low on protein. And, and, and they're, they're probably, if they're fasting for fat loss, doing more activity or lifting weights, you're just over now overdoing it on that, not giving the body the proper nutrients to, to build and grow. And eventually the body adapts to that calorie intake and it shows. Okay. I'm used to skipping breakfast and lunch and eating at two or whatever time you first start your, your first meal and you're getting no results. You're low protein, you're training every other day dramatically decreases.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I mean, I went through that whole process because it's a convenience. Like, you know, skipping breakfast is an easy one for people to be able to handle for the most part because, you know, you're busy and you're getting ready and, and I think that the reduction in calories initially for somebody that's like, well, I need to like, you know, manage this a bit and, and reduce calories. So that way I'm not intaking as much.

[Adam Schafer]

My.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm going to lose body fat. Like all these benefits can happen. You start to find out that, yeah, your energy is really going to be affected, you know, in a negative way and you're going to get adapted to that pretty quickly. So it's not really going to benefit you and your workouts. And the thing is it, it acts as more of a deterrent as you go further along with it towards any progress you're making.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's three. So fasting does have a long history. It's actually one of the first documented forms of quote, unquote diet. And it was, it's documented early on for spiritual practices. So it's present in the world's major religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism. It's also recorded as a way to help with seizures. So, and that's what we think they were talking about. But, and we know this because when somebody has epilepsy, many times they respond well to having rising ketones in the system and no glucose. So that's what happens when you fast, right. You have no, you're not consuming anything, so your body starts to develop energy from ketones. This can also be accomplished with a medicinal ketogenic diet, which is actually one of the first treatments for epilepsy before we had better drugs. But there are a few places that the data shows where fasting has value. So one is spiritual practices. So fasting for spiritual practices is like fasting for anything. Like you're denying the flesh, you're putting yourself in a state of suffering in an attempt to get closer to God. So there's value there for sure. There's also value for certain gut health issues. So certain inflammatory gut issues. You may have a functional medicine practitioner which will have you take a break from eating to allow the inflammation to come down or have shorter eating windows to allow this to happen. So that's another way. And then the third value of fasting is for people who are not on the other end of the spectrum of eating disorder.

[Adam Schafer]

Orthorexia.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not, not orthorexia, but like bigorexia.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So we know what anorexia is. It's like starving yourself. Then there's like what we used to label, or what they label bigorexia. This would be Maybe closer to what I would do as a kid. I always felt skinny, so I was stuffing myself, constantly throwing it down. And it was mentally beneficial for me to fast because I didn't eat for 10 hours and realized that my muscles didn't just evaporate. And it's like, oh my God, I was been so attached to having to eat every other hour. But that's it. Other than that, there's no real value. And the reason why people like fasting, as in for weight loss, is because it's a very black and white, clear,

[Justin Andrews]

the most simplistic, basic.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, this is how I cut calories. I was naughty.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Until this time. Now, the data that I showed people might be wondering why is it associated with worse fasting glucose, worse blood lipids, worse overall metabolic health? Well, there's, there's a couple reasons for this. One, eating protein in the morning controls blood glucose better all day long than if you don't have protein. Okay? And we know this because we have continual glucose monitor data now which measures blood sugar in real time. And for the most part, unless you got really bad gut issues, again, if you got really inflamed gut issues and your functional medicine practitioner tells you to take a break, it'll probably benefit your blood glucose. But everybody else eating a high protein breakfast with all the same food all throughout the whole day, versus not eating the high protein breakfast, eating the same food, the high protein morning meal controls blood glucose better. And then the second reason, which I think is the big reason, here's what happens with regular fasting or regular restriction. It results in binging later, it results in disordered eating later. You're either, you're eating faster and you know this, if you're listening, you know this. Like you break your fast, watch the speed of your eating, it's faster, which leads to higher calories. And then food choices tend to be more difficult. And then Adam, to your point, okay, I need to eat, let's say I'm a woman that needs to eat 130 grams of protein a day. And the data on protein is clear. I'll just really quick. High protein or optimal protein for fat loss, muscle gain, athletic performance is around a gram of protein per pound of fat, target body weight. So you can do less than that and you're okay, but optimal is better. Way better for whatever fitness or athletic performance goal you have. Okay, so I'm 100, I want to eat 130 grams of protein a day. I'm not even a 200 pound male. I'm typical small, petite woman, 130 grams. So it's like 40 grams of protein, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, 45 grams or so, breakfast. So now I skip two meals and I have an eating window of three hours. What am I going to do? Eat 130 grams of protein in three hours?

[Justin Andrews]

You got a lot to shovel in.

[Sal DeStefano]

If I'm dedicated and I'm like, look, I'm still getting my protein. That is disordered eating. Yeah. Eat 130 grams of protein as 130 pound female in three hours, you're stuffing yourself. Yeah. And so this is why you see these problems. Now. We have really good data now ever since fasting became popular over the last 10 years, we've compared with controlled studies, like really good, well done studies where it's calorie restriction. So same diet, both deficit. This one's fasted, this one isn't. Guess what? Same results. In fact, the trend is towards the non fasting group for muscle gain and for just overall well being hormones and stuff like that. The trend, because it's not a huge difference, but it's a difference. So there's really no benefit. People talk about cell autophagy, you know, this is when your cells are clearing out waste and you know, guess what, a calorie deficit does that too.

[Adam Schafer]

I know. Not only that, but it's like if you, if you really are doing it for that, then do, do it once a month for 24 hours.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like don't do it for fat. Like if you want all the neurological benefits that you're going to get from it. Cell autophagy stuff like what I'm trying

[Justin Andrews]

to say, psychological benefits and everything else.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Removing yourself from the day to day, like I'm always having to eat.

[Sal DeStefano]

But what I'm trying to say to you, Adam, is that the data shows it doesn't produce any better results than a calorie strict.

[Adam Schafer]

I know, but I mean, and I know that if you want to do. I know Volt or Longo did the, the fasting mimicking diet and showed all this research and you know, just eat 500 calories for a week. But I mean, I would, I would just, I would say I would, I personally think that you hit it hard or something. Yeah, yeah. 24 hours of no food is easier than 500 calories for sure. For seven days in my opinion. Like, I think, I think restricting for seven days in a row, 500 calories, where it's just like, hey, I'm not eating for 24 hours. Let's get those great Benefits that we're talking about. Also detach from things, get the spiritual benefits, whatever, and then, and then go back to eating normal. It's the intermittent fasting that I'm not a fan of. It's just like, that's the daily, this is what I do. And it, I think what Justin brought up, it just becomes like a excuse to just skip breakfast and do it, do it that way because it's easy to not eat in the morning for

[Sal DeStefano]

a lot of people. The irony is if you're going to put restrictions on your, on your eating and you're like, I don't care what you guys say, it's better for me. I need to have hard lines.

[Adam Schafer]

You'd be better off doing the evening

[Sal DeStefano]

later, later you're better off eating in the, during the day and then cutting it off.

[Adam Schafer]

Which by the way would present a challenge for a lot of people. Because a lot of people have a hard time eating high protein for breakfast.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or they're on the run.

[Adam Schafer]

They're on the run or they're rushing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, but you're better off if you, if you're gonna do this, which I don't even think you need, I don't think you should do this at all. But if you're going to and you're hard set on it, you're better off eating the high protein breakfast. Get that blood glucose control, cutting it off at 6pm I mean you'll get

[Adam Schafer]

better sleep that way also just like, okay, I mean you, you always go the, the research and science of which I, I think I know our audience appreciates, but just anecdotally with clients. This is why, and if you've listened to Mindful for a very long time, I was the big advocate and would debate. We used to break up. We used to debunk the myth about, yes, small meals, six small meals. And I used to advocate still for it and argue for it not because of the science and it's burning any more body fat. And what we used to say is 20 year old trainers, it's like stoking the fire and like that's all. And I'm very aware of that. Yet I still advocated for clients doing that because what I found is that when clients were like regularly eating every two to three hours and they never allowed themselves to get really hungry, they just had better self control. And I, I'm the same way too. Even if I'm not practicing intermittent fasting, if I just miss breakfast and I don't get my first meal till like 11 or no and I'm kind of behind all day. Well, my later evening at 10 o' clock at night, I'm like ravenous, I'm craving.

[Justin Andrews]

You're more likely to make bad and

[Adam Schafer]

then I make, and then I make bad. Whereas if I'm like, I get up, I make sure I have my, my first, my first meal early and then I'm having another meal by 10, 11, then I'm on another meal. I knew if I'm like doing it every two to three hours, come dinner time, I have a very modest dinner, I feel satisfied, I can cut it off before bed and I go. And I have found that with clients, also the clients that try and restrict these windows and stuff like that, maybe they have a little temporary success, but

[Sal DeStefano]

they're also the ones that are more

[Adam Schafer]

likely to binge and make bad choices later in the evening.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you have to be careful with studies is when you look at a.

[Adam Schafer]

They're controlling, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

And not only that, but you look at a study and then you see a result. It's important to get into the study and figure out what's causing the result. So like, the benefits that they'll show with fasting are real, but they're not from the fasting, they're coming from the calorie restriction. Okay, so it's not the fasting, it's not that I'm not eating for eight hours, it's that my calories are really low. And for, depending on the individual and how long you do this because you keep this up long enough, not great either. But for a lot of people, restricting calories for a little bit, I mean, you get a lot of health benefits. Reduced inflammation, higher BDNF in the brain, improved accelerated cell autophagy, anti cancer, all those different things. But it's not the fasting, it's the caloric restriction. So this is what's real important to look at. So fasting again, in my experience, unless I'm dealing with those three people that I listed earlier, like spiritual reasons, bigorexia, or gut health issues, the success rate with fasting for clients, for fat loss or anything else is literally as bad as any other diet. It's got the same fail rate. In fact, I would say it's a faster track towards disordered eating than some of the other diets, except for the extreme ones. You're gonna create some disordered eating eating. By the way, the people even with

[Justin Andrews]

gut issues, I mean, I think even like the elimination diet where you start just extracting, you know, one item at a time. So you can really evaluate, you know, what, what your body doesn't agree with the most and, but still the consistency of, you know, having routine. I think the body just, it performs so much better when you just give it that kind of like hard line routine as opposed to this intermittent, you know, throwing things at it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And what makes me, like, really annoyed with this is that oftentimes these articles are presented by scientists and so they have like all this authority, but, but none of them are. None of them have coached and trained people for years. And if they were just took a little extra time and compared it to just regular calorie restriction, they would see there's no real benefit to fasting aside from the fact that it restricts calories. And again, just for somebody listening, because there's people out there who are like, no, I need hard lines. You don't understand. I need structured eating. For me, that's the best way to get going because I don't think it's a great way to live forever. But maybe for you it's a great way to get going on figuring this out. You're far better off restricting in the evening, from a health perspective than you are in the morning. In the morning, it's actually the worst time to restrict.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, this is why I advocate for the six small meals. There's also a psychological part of that. I think that there's always that angle too.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the biggest angle.

[Adam Schafer]

You prep these meals, you have a good choice ready for you. It's like it's easier to make that choice. Then you're not prepared. You don't have a, you don't have a meal. You're on the go. You've also fasted now for 12 hours. It's like, man, you want to talk about really having to white knuckle some situations like that. And then, heaven forbid, you have one day that week. You also had bad night's sleep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So now you got a bad night's sleep thrown in there also. So like, it just, it's like it's inevitably it's going to break totally. And then when it does, it's just.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'll say this, look, if, if diet was X's and O's, what's good and what's bad? If it was that easy, there would be no, nobody would have any issues with their diet. It would be simple. But the, the thing is, diet is so much less of the do this, do that, here's the right diet, and so much more of the behaviors and psychology around it. I mean, that's just a fact, you guys. Like, it's, it's. If it was as easy as, like, let me just get, like, the right way to eat, would anybody have a problem?

[Adam Schafer]

No. Then all my, all my, all my family, that love chat, GBT would all be in great shape. Yeah, I mean, that's, that was the case because you could chat, you could put in all your metrics and say,

[Justin Andrews]

give me all the answers and I'll do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

One more warning. One more warning. I'll say, this is more common in women than men, far more common. Just because their bodies are more sensitive. Fasting repeatedly, even if you're eating enough calories on stuff, does seem to have a stress response on people. And I've had female clients who just did this. And then over time, hormone issues, hair falling out, like, just didn't feel it, started feeling burnt out because it can cause prolonged periods without eating. Repeated over and over and over again does cause a bit of a stress response. And you see this in blood markers. You'll see, you know, catecholamines rise, cortisol rise, and you just do that over time, especially if you combine it with exercise and a busy, you know, you know, lifestyle. Probably not a good idea for most people. Speaking of which, speaking of studies that people don't just misconstrue, another study came out on GLP medicines and it's flying everywhere and people are just. So it's a little bit frustrating. Yeah. Study came out that showed that there was a significant correlation between GLP usage and bone weakening. Okay. So now people like, oh, my God, GLPs, they're bad for your bones.

[Adam Schafer]

It's massive calorie restriction.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, man. People on GOP are just not eating enough. That's very predictable. If you don't eat enough, you're gonna lose muscle eventually. Bone mass, tendon and ligament strength will go down. Hair will go down. You'll notice saggy skin on your face. All this, you know, ozempic face, all the stuff they talk about, it's. It's just because people are doing it wrong. They're hammering their appetite with GLPs and eating a thousand calories a day. And that's what's going to happen.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

When you do that for a long time, I'm watching.

[Adam Schafer]

I won't, I won't name the family member that I have going through this right now, but I'm watching kind of the dark side or the bad side of these GLP ones. I've seen a lot of good examples of like it's. We've obviously had callers and, and we took groups through and so we've seen like the radical change that somebody's gone through and how awesome it's been and how powerful it can be for people with both behaviors and to break those chains and all those things. I, I don't, I don't know where I stand. I think I argued pretty strongly on the podcast early on that I felt it would be a net positive for sure. From it I go back and forth, especially when I have situations that are really close to me, my own experience than having like a family member that I'm watching like just like drop like 60, 70 pounds or whatever. The thing that I'm, I'm most fascinated with that I should know better. I should know that even though I, I said when I went through it, I took my trainer brain out of it, there's still part of that that I can't eliminate. Right. Like, for example, because of who I am and how long I've done this for, I have a healthy relationship with food. So for example, one of the things that I was so fascinated with the GLP1s I thought is like just no desire for junk food. In fact, I could feel my body craving nutrient dense foods because I needed it so bad. Like I felt so deprived. It was just like all I wanted was chicken, steak and rice or something that like felt like it was a value. Like things that were just garbage. One didn't taste the same anymore, were bland and didn't. Didn't feed me or feel that. Watching somebody who's had a really bad relationship with food for a really long time, it's wild to see that they still keep grabbing the fire Cheetos and it's like. And then like on the toilet, like just destroyed and then come back and then try ice cream. And then, and then like and then spider. And then not eat, not eat for a whole day. They took the shot, right? They took a shot. The, the first two days, no appetite. So almost eat no food. Then finally day three, they can eat a little something. When they finally do want something. Oh, let me try some garbage. And then it's like. And then on the. Just battling the, all the side effects and it's like, how is that not signaling to you? Don't do that. Like go eat. And, and yet still going back and, and doing that over and over and over. And I forget that I have a, a better, a healthy relationship with food. So it was really easy for me. Eat. Try one bad thing. Notice it doesn't feel good. Does the sit well, it's like, oh. And then I thought, wow, that's crazy how you just, you crave the nutrition.

[Justin Andrews]

I know different than a lot of eating disorders.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. But if you have people that are just are. It's so insidious, they don't even realize. It's like I'm watching it, like and coaching to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And still I'm beginning to think that maybe because if you look at the medical system, doctors well intentioned but not trained in coaching, almost no nutrition background and they're prescribing GLPs to obese people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I think if you look at that and you look at it broadly and the, the negative effects of just eating too little, including muscle loss hormone issues, like all those different things, we may end up with a net like negative or flat.

[Justin Andrews]

Because how is there no like standard in terms of like physicians when they're prescribing.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, here's why. I'll tell you.

[Justin Andrews]

Having specifically you have to have program with this with strange.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll tell you why.

[Justin Andrews]

Have to have.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll tell you why. And this is like, this is more of like what I'm like what it's unfolding to me. Doctor's happy.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know why you're losing weight.

[Adam Schafer]

Blood sugar's down. Losing weight.

[Justin Andrews]

Like look at all these other metrics,

[Adam Schafer]

like all these other markers, stupid. Are showing positive because this person's coming from obesity.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so they're not like, they're not measuring bone density and worrying about it going down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Strength.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And strength and asking about that. They're like weight is down, blood sugar levels are down, cholesterol's down. Like fat is down. Like, oh, we're keep it up.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the equivalent of like a plastic surgeon, you know, like, oh yeah, I can help you get the weight off. I can help you like there's no like, like long term health benefit.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, it's going to happen because

[Adam Schafer]

they don't think that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well and also just the way the industry, the whole medical industry is organized in the incentives, what's going to happen is instead of them because this is the hard way, the hard way. And doctors can do this. They don't have time. The hard way is, okay, we're going to put you on this but we're going to start with a low dose. We're going to make sure you hit protein, I'm going to make sure you strength train. We're going to coach you and follow you. They're not going to do that. They can't. So what it's going to look like is the format industry is going to come out with more drugs to stack on top of it to help fight for sure. The other stuff. Yeah. Muscle building side effects. Yeah. Like all that stuff is going to throw more stuff on top.

[Adam Schafer]

Well it makes it even tougher because I think what is it? Is it. It's Manjaro and Ozempic. Both are pre loaded.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so there's no modifying. Yeah, there's no modifying the dose. It's just go up. That's like, that's wow. That's what the, the dose that they, they had my family member on was just like holy. Just completely crushed. And you know why that was? Because when they first put her on it still was eating the bad foods of that not seeing fast enough weight loss. So it's like ramp it up, you know, so ramp it up. And then finally it's like crush the appetite. Like doesn't want to eat for a day or two then finally eats a little bit. When they do eat it's something that's not like, it's like holy. And you're getting this feedback of you go eat the thing and then you're, you're tore up on the toilet but who cares?

[Sal DeStefano]

The weight's going down. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like it just and but knows knows it's making them miserable and still gravitate. So, so I know that I said that I did my best to take my trainer brain out and experience that so I could try and relate to a client as much. But what I didn't realize until this recent conversation was, you know, you don't

[Sal DeStefano]

allow yourself to be sick on the toilet.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I didn't allow myself to be naive to what I was feeling. And I like I just went with how I felt. And so in my head I go

[Sal DeStefano]

like yeah, but how you feel and you're, how you're connected to how you feel.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, Right. And I just, I, I misunderstood the level and the power of how important that is.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're going to see is we're going to see over the years to take a while. You're going to see an explosion of osteopenia, osteoporosis injuries. You're going to see IQ drop. You're going to start to see IQ because not enough nutrients, your brain starts to also suffer. It's not going to be good until unless people really figure out how to do this the right way.

[Justin Andrews]

It's malnourished and brittle.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's frustrating. Well, by the way, I got to say this too. This is my favorite part of the whole thing. Only because there's a part of me that gets annoyed with Hollywood. The whole, you know, what is, what was the movement they were doing? Like body.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Body acceptance movement. Body positivity movement through Hollywood gone. All those overweight actors and musicians who were like promoting, you know, a healthy at any size and body.

[Justin Andrews]

They're all skinny campaign.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're all skinny now. Yeah. They all went on, on GLPs and lost hella weight.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

All those same people. Yeah, yeah. Just, just remind people that Hollywood, they don't give a yeah about you. They're just going to say whatever they think they're supposed to say. Type of along these lines. By the way, this is good news. So RFK just took a bunch of. So there was a bunch of peptides. I have a list of them here. Oh yeah. Where they were not available through compounding pharmacies because the FDA came down and said you guys can't compound these anymore. So for people don't know, you can get GLP through your physician brand name, far more expensive. Or you could go through like a company like that we work with. If you go to mphormones.com, you work with a doctor, you still work with a doctor, but they work with a compound pharmacy. So it's the equivalent of a generic drug versus brand name. Okay. So it's like ibuprofen versus Advil. Same medicine, a little more expensive to go brand name, same thing. So compound pharmacies are, were able to make all these different peptides. FDA said no more. So they had to, they banned them for a while. RFK reversed that. So now you can get again original BPC157, thymosin alpha, thymosin beta. You can get GHKCU, you can get Ipamarilyn, Epitalon, KPV, mot C is back. C Max and Celanqua back. Kisspeptin, DSIP, all back now through real, real compound pharmacies, through doctors. So if you go to mphormones.com, you can get all those peptides again which were, you know, for a while. They're FDA regulated pharmacies. Compounding pharmacies weren't able to make them good.

[Adam Schafer]

So it's official now.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're all back. Yeah, I know that is critical.

[Adam Schafer]

That is, that is really cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was, you know, recently I've been reading this book and these studies on like anxiety and depression and how like community is so important and how. That's probably the real reason why we're seeing challenges. It's not social media, it's not tech, it's that it's replacing these other important things. So I was listening more and I heard something, so it's, it's obvious. But when I heard, it really was like, whoa, that's, that's crazy. We've confused like breadth of friendships to, with depth of friendship. So like, I know a lot of people, I have a lot of acquaintances, a lot of people know my name, I say hi to them and the data shows better than nothing. That's better than being isolated, but it pales in comparison to having really deep friendship.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not even on the same. And I think inherently we all know that without naming names, the amount of people that we have met in the space that are Instagram famous or YouTube famous, and they're surrounded by, you know, millions of people, the following them and communicating with them. Loneliest people are some of the loneliest people we've ever met. So lonely. A lot of them battle depression and take anti anxiety medication and, you know, really struggle with this. Yet you see this outward personality online and they're always doing stuff with people and it's like, it's all this great social life. Yeah. You, you think that they must have the most social life. Look at all the things they do and all the people around them and all it's like. And then yet when you actually get to know them in person, in a conversation, outside of the cameras, and it's like they just, they lack depth, they lack connection. They just, they don't have any really. They don't have anyone they call a really close friend. And it's like, wow, it's so wild.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, one of the reasons why this hit me so hard is because I wasn't like that. But it was definitely, I was definitely me. Like in the past, I'd have friendships and I'd have family, but I would only let them in so far. Like, you can't. I wouldn't let people in on my challenges, on my struggles, on my real, like vulnerable challenge. To the point when I got divorced, you guys know when I got divorced was 11, 12 years ago, my family was shocked. They had no idea. They're like, what, what, what do you mean? Yeah. Not knowing that the last, you know, 10 years was really. Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. Because you didn't admit anything.

[Sal DeStefano]

I didn't let them in.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so that's the depth. The depth is like, like, do people really know you and do you really know them? And a few of those friendships is like, that's worth the time.

[Adam Schafer]

What has the. Because you've openly shared this with us and told us this before. What is that? What does that practice or training look like for you to work on that?

[Sal DeStefano]

What does that look like?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, what does that look? Because obviously becoming aware of it is step one.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what I was gonna say. That's number one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Step one is you become aware. I'm this guy who does this. Step two is how do I get out of that? Like, are there moments where you're like, this is something that I, I wouldn't share with my boys. I need to do this. And it's like, it's uncomfortable. You don't want, like, are you, do you, Are you, are you, are you consciously exercising that still a challenge?

[Sal DeStefano]

And I think it's probably a challenge for a lot of guys because you, you don't want to feel like a burden. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to tell, you know, this. You know, I don't want. I got it. I'm gonna handle it. I was like, my mo. Yeah. You know, finding Faith made a huge difference on that. Huge difference on that. And so now it's much easier for me to like communicate challenges and issues and even do it publicly, which actually it's funny publicly. It's easier for me than in private, which is also a way of kind of, you know, putting up a wall type of deal.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I can tell about, I can talk about it here, but then in person, I'm not going to talk too much about it, but it's way better now.

[Adam Schafer]

What do you think that is? What do you think that is right there?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I know what that is. If I feel like I'm helping someone else, then I can do it.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Because it's not a burden, you see. So I can do this.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you'll reveal enough. But then they're not gonna keep digging.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, they also, they can't give any feedback.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what I mean. They're not gonna keep like prying it out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it's not just that. It's the feeling like a burden part. Like, I could do it with clients if I, like, if somebody comes to me with like an eating disorder. Early on I found if I shared that I struggled. It's also, I feel like I'm helping them.

[Adam Schafer]

It's also self serving ego versus true vulnerability.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, true vulnerability.

[Adam Schafer]

True vulnerability would be putting yourself out There with. You said an uncomfortable situation with your friends. Doing it to help others is the. Makes my ego feel better because I'm helping. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I guess you could put it that way. The other way to think about it is real vulnerability means you get. I. You. I. I'm not helping you in any way, shape, or form. So now I'm really vulnerable.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, like, about whatever you're. I have no value except for the fact that this is hard.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm struggling with this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Right now you got to rely on someone else. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, especially, like you said with men, because, like, you know, you don't want to admit, like, all these things that are failing, you know, and that's a really hard thing to come forward with that without any other, you know, sort of context of how you're fixing it or how. Because that's always me. It's like, well, I'm working on this, and I'm gonna fix this.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think a lot of guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, man, I'm really getting. You know, I'm sucking it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I think a lot of guys can relate to that. By the way, doing this. I think it's important. You have a wife and you're. And you share with her, but this is also a natural thing for a husband that you don't want to burden your. Like, let's say you're the primary breadwinner. I'll give a good example. You're. You work and your wife stays at home, and, man, you're struggling at work, and you're like, oh, my God, I might lose my job. I think it's honorable to not want to burden her with every one of those problems because now she's stressed out too. You want to try and make her feel secure.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I also think that's a. One of the places where real, Real valuable relationship with other men coming in.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

You get to. You and I have a beer, and you're like, bro, I think I might get fired.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Yeah, that's right.

[Adam Schafer]

And you and I talk it out. We work about it, and like, 100. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Rock when you get home.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the thing.

[Adam Schafer]

100. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was having that discussion with somebody, and they're like, oh, yeah, that's because you're right. Burdening your wife with every challenge at work. And now she's at home with the kids, and she's like. Like, you want to protect her a little bit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, no, no. I Mean, the, the flip would, I think, is tr. Like her burdening you with all the things that she's doing at home while you're out doing the breadwinning. And the money is also.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's important for men and women to have.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Like, that's like, that's again, that's the relationship with.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

She.

[Adam Schafer]

She has with her girlfriend that goes. It's like, oh, my God, the kids today, they were this or that. It's like, last thing you want to hear when you're almost about to get fired from your job in the middle of the day, you're like, yo, my God, my son. Your son just did this and broke the windows. It's like, that's not like. I mean, it goes both ways.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. That's. That's why there's got to be value. There's value for both sexes having relationships with people. I think the. The next layer of complexity is like, healthy, good ones. So it's like that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like, that sucks if you have toxic.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, because then. Then it's like. Because then that's the. The other layer to this is it's. It's already important to have those, but then you also want to. Good. And so I, I was always. This was an area that I didn't struggle in. I've always had networks, friend. But what I've realized as I got older is how I've curated that circle. Yeah. So I. I didn't have a problem. I'm very open. I'm very vulnerable. I'll share. I'll share that stuff. That wasn't probably. It has something to do with being raised by a mother. And I have that more that feminine energy. So I'm okay with doing that. But also having men that weren't going to pull me up and push me to be better versus more like, oh, man. Yeah, that sucks. So that's dude or F her. You know, like, you know, like, that's not. That's not helping.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schafer]

That's not making me better or really good. So being able to curate that circle. That's why, I mean, I really do believe you're an average of the five people you spend the most time with. And so, you know, it's a good example of that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'd be like if I was hanging out with a bunch of, like, meathead body dysmorphia bodybuilder guys. That's my friends. And then I go to them, like, guys, I think I'M overdoing it with my workouts, and I think I'm just. I have a battle. No, bro. Go after it, bro. Be difficult.

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's such a good. Good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Terrible.

[Adam Schafer]

That's such a good point to bring up, Sal. Because when we're young, especially in our, like, teenage years and young adult years, you tend to gravitate to others who have the same insecurities and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sure.

[Adam Schafer]

And then you form these bonds that you have and that. So this was me. Like, I. Like, I. I formed bonds and loyalty to a lot of other men that struggle with all the same insecurities and issues and. And so we're all stuck.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you commiserate.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And. And you don't realize it. And then you. And you justify it because, like, oh, that's my boy. We got into, like, at least five fights together, and he's got my back, and, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, he would die for me. Like, that's why goodwill hunting resonates so much with me. That's like, it's all loyalty when you're. Yeah, it's all. It's all loyalty. It's like you've built this, like, this. This family unit, but it's. It's. It's based and rooted around these insecurities.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a good bulwark against that. So I. I learned this from our church. We have groups that we go to. They have. They're really good. The church I go to has got really good communities and stuff. And they said, and I think this is brilliant. You need to have other men in your life, but you also need to have men that are in a same life, similar life stage. So you got young kids. You're. Whatever. You want friends that are like that as well. You also want older male friends who are retired.

[Justin Andrews]

Wisdom.

[Sal DeStefano]

They raised the kids. They've gone through all that. And then you want men under you that you can mentor. And they said that that combination is the best for being vulnerable, offering help and stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

I'd add to that, too, with, like, if you can do that and then find things that are different that you admire about each of them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, I might have my friend who, like, just has lots of spiritual wisdom, and he's older and he has this. I love that. Yeah. I can learn from that. Then I have somebody who's just fiscally super responsible and done really well for him financially. Then I have my, you know, founder friends. It's like having a diverse group and. And seeing characteristic characteristics that you admire about those Other men, totally. Because you can also have that too, because there's. I have. I have really good close relationships where, you know, maybe that friend, I. There's certain aspects of him that it's like, that's not something I want to get from him. But they have other aspects that I admire that I go like, well, that I do admire.

[Justin Andrews]

You try the hangouts around the aspect 100. That's how you really start curating that. And I, too, I always gauge it based off of, like, you know, is this filling me up or is this draining me down?

[Adam Schafer]

You know?

[Justin Andrews]

And like, that's after I leave to hang out. It's like, okay, well, I have to evaluate that. And what was that like? And so then you kind of start to curate a better environment that brings out more of the positive.

[Sal DeStefano]

I remember as a young dad, because, you know, I have older kids, so at one point I was kind of a young dad, and I'd have buddies that were still single, and they were the worst for any kind of advice or anything around that because they didn't understand. They had all the quote, unquote, freedom in the world or whatever. But being friends with other younger dads was great because they're in the same thing. They have the same priorities.

[Adam Schafer]

So now you guys are. Imagine you're coaching your. Your young, you know, teenage sons that are getting into young being young men and young adults. And this. They're. This is starting to click for them. They understand this, and they might not be there yet, but they're. They're starting to. And they go, well, how do I do that, dad? Like, how do you coach them to curate that? What does that look like? Because I know that's what. When we talk about things like this, I get DMS all the time about that. It's like, okay, I get that this is important, but, like. And a lot of people think of it as, like, it's this breakup. Like, you go, okay, I realize these are my toxic friends that we, you know, that we grew up in high school together and stuff like that, and I need to evolve past that. But they have. They really struggle with it. So what do I have to have a breakup conversation? And then how do I get that?

[Justin Andrews]

It's not like our nutrition conversations where you're seeking out, you know, better, nutritious foods. Like, I'm seeking out better friends that can mentor me or have some. Something to offer that's even better. And it's like, you just. It just naturally starts to gravitate more of your time. You're not completely disregarding, you know, that, that friend group and maybe there's some value still there. But then that's where you look at that friend group like, well, how can I create and foster an environment where you know the best aspects of them, you know, I can enjoy with them. But like I'm not just doing it as frequently as I was.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. I love that. I love the idea of giving that analogy like how we coach people with nutrition instead of thinking about cutting out more. Yeah. Add more to where it's just, it becomes a small amount of your time and then that time is focused on maybe the connection that you have with.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the other thing too with teenage boys is oftentimes the older mentor, it can be dad, but oftentimes it's a coach. Like really good coaches do a good job of mentoring younger men. It could also be a pastor and then mentoring younger guys, which you could tell them specifically, hey, go get a kid that's two, three years younger than you, wants to play your sport or whatever. And you know, coach them once a week. This is an unlock for guys, by the way. You take a young man who's struggling and you put them in charge of other younger men and they tend to rise up. I remember learning I had a client years ago who got sent to one of those like those camps. He was, he got caught smoking weed a bunch and his parents sent him off to one of those camps and he was just, he was struggling. He had no direction. He was a good kid, but just no direction. And one of the things they did with him is they put him in charge of a group of six younger guys and he just rose to the occasion, suddenly became this like great leader and just totally became a better person.

[Justin Andrews]

Responsibility now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Responsibility. Responsibility. Does it.

[Adam Schafer]

I think there's also too like, there's a lot of value. And like we were always trying to like measure our time and value of dollars or something like that. And like so many young men that I talk to are afraid to go add value to somebody's else life without getting some sort of financial exchange for it or something. So it's like, dude, if you see someone that you admire in business or something that they do like work for free. Yeah. Exactly how valuable that is. Like you find a way to add value to their life with asking nothing in return because the value is getting close to that person.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

The value is being of value to that person because then that person will want you around and be okay with that. Being around like, and that may means doing hours of Stuff, you know, on a daily or weekly basis for free for this person. But the wisdom and that. That you gain will pay itself tenfold in your life and being okay with that. We're always so caught up in, like, well, how much am I gonna make if I go do all that stuff for him for free? Is he gonna pay me, or should I out? It's like, no. Like, you know. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

As if what you're getting in the

[Sal DeStefano]

room as if you're not getting any value.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's insane.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's crazy. All right. I'm gonna go in a. In a different direction. I don't know if you saw this, Justin. Did you see the CIA declassified documents that came out more. Just listen. This is. Bro. People are posting the funniest memes, and it's like a conspiracy theorist and, like, celebrating or like kings. Because they're just right all the time right now.

[Adam Schafer]

They're all right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Every single one is coming true. Declassified CIA files reveal that under President. President Lyndon B. Johnson, the military sprayed chemicals from planes, also known as stratospheric aerosol injections, to modify the weather.

[Adam Schafer]

Huh.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Justin Andrews]

So chemtrail.

[Adam Schafer]

That was funny.

[Justin Andrews]

And like, oh, you're an idiot. Tin foil hat loser.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, man. You know what's funny, too? Because my cousin. My cousin, he likes. He's. He gets all into this because my uncle was like this, and my uncle was really smart, so he wasn't, like, wacky conspiracy stuff. He'd, like, get into it. My cousin was taking. He lives up in Roseville, right? And you know, California gets super hot up there, sunny. And he was taking pictures, and he's like, check out the sky right now, super clear. And then you see planes going across, and you see the contrail or whatever, and then he was taking pictures of it, and those contrails were spreading. Next thing you know, the whole sky is hazy, and he's like, that's not a contrail, dude. He's like, that's a chemtrail.

[Justin Andrews]

Why are they still doing, like, total crossing patterns? So they, like, blanket one entire area. Come on, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's happening, dude? Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Aren't there other files that are supposed to be coming out this year, too? Like, more JFK stuff or another. Another conspiracy I can't handle anymore.

[Sal DeStefano]

I need a break. Dude, stop releasing them. Let me just chill for a second.

[Justin Andrews]

That's sort of the.

[Adam Schafer]

They may as well just dump it all right now. Because the fact that all the Epstein stuff came out and, like, we're just like, nobody's in jail. Nobody's like, it's just like, why not just throw it all out there now at this point, like just.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd heard there's like. So there was like something like 4.9 terabytes of whatever that they've released. Yeah, but there's like a hundred terabytes still of just Epstein.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, just Epstein. Well, I told you guys that Epstein stat that I heard that if you were to stack the emails on paper, one email a time on top of each other. It's taller than two Eiffel Towers. Oh, wow. I mean, just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you see, by the way, did you see that they. They. All the emails. There is a period of time where there's no email.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

That are redacted.

[Adam Schafer]

The 911 time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right around September 11th.

[Justin Andrews]

Convenient.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right before. During.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you see? Did you. Did I said what? I'm pretty sure I sent Justin this stuff. I sent Justin all this stuff. More the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, I like it too.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sorry. The.

[Adam Schafer]

The interview of the guy. There's like suppressed interviews from the firefighters that were in the building that said they saw explosions go off.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it's funny cuz like, you know, when they happened, it was, you know, I. I was watching the news, like, like big time. Like, and I was sitting there and you.

[Adam Schafer]

I.

[Justin Andrews]

There was actually interviews that were like very controversial. That they live and they never should.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what I'm talking about. These were. These are. These guys are like covered and just walked out and they're talking about.

[Justin Andrews]

They're talking about explosions and like how it was like very much like there's no way it would.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, well, after the plane. Yeah. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially the other buildings that they would just collapse like uniformly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like then they find.

[Justin Andrews]

There's no way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it thermite? Is that the name of the. Didn't they find a thermite? And you know what that is?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what melts steel. It's a compound that burns so hot. Yeah. That they use it for demolition. To melt. To melt steel. Yeah, I know.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh man.

[Justin Andrews]

And at this point, it's like if you get all this release, there's just people out there that they just will resist it. They don't want to hear it. And they're still going to push back and be like, oh, this is all fake.

[Adam Schafer]

I have.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm so like, it's just baffling to me. Like, what?

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Justin Andrews]

Like how do you decipher and determine what is true now?

[Adam Schafer]

That's just it for people. Like we've been gaslit so much that the common, the common theme that I'm seeing in like my family and friends that don't go down the rabbit hole or like it's just like, oh, I don't even know what's true or.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

They just dislike. So they hear some crazy thing that's came out that proved a conspiracy theory true. And they don't. They're just like, oh, it's probably AI

[Sal DeStefano]

or that was a psychological tactic in the Soviet Union is they would constantly change information to the point where people were just like, I don't know what to believe.

[Adam Schafer]

That's where we're at right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're.

[Adam Schafer]

That's when I talk to somebody who doesn't follow any of it or isn't into it and you bring something up, it's like, yeah, is that just another one of those things, though? That's not like I just dismiss it.

[Sal DeStefano]

My favorite part of all, the September 11 thing that I always am so fascinated by was one of the most surveyed places in the world with audio recording security is the Pentagon. Remember, this is like the central hub of intelligence of intelligence and defense of the United States government. It's surrounded by cameras.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, like for sure, where you sneak in

[Sal DeStefano]

surrounded. And we don't have a single video of the plane flying in and hitting the side. We don't have a single one. And they confiscated all the security cameras from like the 7 11s and stuff around there. We don't have a single. The only video they show, you can't tell what it is. It just boom, blows up. There's no more video. I'm like, you can't tell me there isn't a, like there's a recording of how many birds flew by that building that day. I guarantee you they have. The whole place is surveyed like crazy

[Justin Andrews]

people out there that want more government. It's just, it's just mind boggling to me.

[Adam Schafer]

It's disgusting to think that one of the most horrific things that's ever happened in our history was done to ourselves.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe. Or we just don't know.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean that's, that's, that's just, that's, that's so evil.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So evil and, and so bad to think that. But again, like I said, the people that are close in my family that are just like, who knows? Who knows?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's just, it's, it's just, it's like, tune it out. You like, you tune it out and you're just like, just. I mean, and I, I don't Know if that was always the strategy, like maybe that was the strategy from day one was just like, eventually this is going to be so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

It seems like that's the strategy right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it does feel like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right?

[Justin Andrews]

It feels like any, any skepticism that's going to go against like, you know, some push agenda or whatever. It's like, you know, the only thing they have is to make you look crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, why are they releasing first we get Epstein emails and they're just boom, tons of them. And it's crazy stuff. Simultaneously, CIA declassified documents are showing we were definitely trying mind control with psychedelics and drugs.

[Justin Andrews]

We were definitely even before MK Ultra.

[Sal DeStefano]

Before.

[Justin Andrews]

What was that? Operation Artichoke.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So that was even before, like I even knew about.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's declassified.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, and oh yes, we were bioengineering ticks to. To spray these. Oh, and yes, we are spraying chemicals.

[Justin Andrews]

All hunches were actually 100 true.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, and yes, aliens are real. And it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I think that's the strategy right now is to make us go, I don't know what the hell to believe. Right, right. It's.

[Adam Schafer]

It's all.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's all.

[Justin Andrews]

So can we talk about Bigfoot finally?

[Adam Schafer]

Wait, what if you say that when

[Sal DeStefano]

we were walking, there's hell. Sightings are big right now.

[Adam Schafer]

See now, okay, this is what they do too though, right?

[Justin Andrews]

This is where it gets fun for me.

[Adam Schafer]

This is what they do right here. Then they throw some out there like that. That you're just like, that isn't true. And then you're like, no, right now

[Sal DeStefano]

there's like a huge amount of reported. Doug, look it up. Of Bigfoot sightings right now that are happening.

[Justin Andrews]

That's exciting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which is. That's exciting, by the way. You know, one of the main theory. You know, it's funny about Bigfoot. There's a big theory that Bigfoot is interdimensional.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, they're, they're just.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. They're trying to figure out why he disappears. Way so good at hide and seek.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

This big animal that's supposedly, you know,

[Adam Schafer]

can't be super fast.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it can't be super fast. Like you know, in and out. And so.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, Doug, what do you get over?

[Doug]

Yeah, So a lot have been reported early this year, most notably in northeast Ohio, which I never thought would be the place you'd see Bigfoot.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Where several residents and a sheriff reported a seven to eight foot tall, foul smelling creature. And then there's been additional Sightings in California from March. So yeah, it seems to be a thing.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Say where in California?

[Justin Andrews]

It's always northwest.

[Doug]

Let me see if I can find more details here, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Isn't it by where you're at?

[Doug]

Do you know Runyon Canyon? Where running.

[Justin Andrews]

We have a Bigfoot museum. You know that, right? Like down the street.

[Doug]

Oh, also San Bernardino county.

[Adam Schafer]

So a lot of sightings.

[Doug]

But we got Wisconsin.

[Adam Schafer]

All these iPhones. You think we would catch some footage?

[Justin Andrews]

No, well, they have some, but you know, you. It's so skeptical.

[Adam Schafer]

I know. I remember the last one I see.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was like.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

We even have Florida and Texas, you know, report.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what's weird, by the way? Bigfoot and aliens have some. Some interesting things in common.

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Sal DeStefano]

Like. Yes. So aliens. When people have encounters with aliens, they report a foul smell. Yeah. Often a. Or wet dog type smell. Which is the same kind of smell. Yeah. That people refer to with Bigfoot.

[Adam Schafer]

I did not know that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Do you know what else has a bad smell, Adam. Oh, what? Demons. You know what else is interdimensional, Adam? Demons. Yeah. I don't know, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I'll be.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you see that meme with the guy from Ancient Aliens?

[Adam Schafer]

Aliens.

[Justin Andrews]

This is gonna be one with Sal. Just like,

[Adam Schafer]

hey, once I debunked his carbon carbon dating. Now everything's on the table now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everything's on the table now.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh my gosh.

[Sal DeStefano]

I can't wait till we have.

[Justin Andrews]

Reality's getting flipped upside down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, we got Stephen. Stephen Meyer will be on at some point. We're supposed to be having scheduled. Come on. And he breaks down all the science of that stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm actually really excited.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I tell you what, bro, you were right. But you couldn't sell it. You just don't know the science, dude. This was how Adam selled it. This is how he sold it. Were you there? Yeah, I wasn't there. Did you see it? Did you see a dinosaur yourself?

[Adam Schafer]

I might have to go back. I might have to go back and

[Sal DeStefano]

listen, you got to sell it better, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Right? Hey, this is me as a trainer too. Like, I read the science. I understand it. Get me to regurgitate it perfectly. Just listen. That's why I tell my clients. Just trust me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just listen to me.

[Adam Schafer]

Just listen to what I have to say.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sorry.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sorry. I didn't trust.

[Adam Schafer]

You just should know that by now. Like, I know. I read the books, I saw it, I heard the data, but I could not regurgitate it for you like, that's your skill, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's.

[Adam Schafer]

That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

You read something, you tell me what to sell, dude. Hey, speaking of selling, so we're this episode sponsored by Vuori, and. I got it. I got to say something, dude. I was going through my. My closet. By this point, 80% of my closet's Fiori. Right? We've been sponsored. How long have we been sponsored by them?

[Adam Schafer]

Good.

[Doug]

Eight years, I'd say now. Probably more, actually.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bro. I got stuff.

[Doug]

Probably since 17.

[Justin Andrews]

That is.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got stuff that's like seven or eight years old.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

From Vuory. I've washed them hundreds of times. Look, brand. This is the. It's the longest last.

[Justin Andrews]

Still wear, like, my old stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

They just don't go. They don't get old. They last a long time.

[Adam Schafer]

I did. You know, I don't know if you guys seen. I've been wearing the. If you go back on some of the episodes, I've been wearing that. The. The jacket. I don't know what you call that. I wish. It's like the lightweight black one I have. That's a Vori jacket. It's button up.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Take a windbreaker.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. It's like a.

[Sal DeStefano]

Kind of a.

[Adam Schafer]

Like a windbreaker material. Love.

[Sal DeStefano]

They have a bunch of new stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Love.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, they're raincoat, dude. I don't know if you guys have seen that one, but I wear that one also. It's. Dude, it's so lightweight and perfect and. Yeah, I always forget about that. And then it rains. I'm like, oh, yeah, I have.

[Adam Schafer]

I love that they're, like, branching out in more style stuff. It was. It was very. Just kind of athleisure. Wear focus. Oh, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now it's like.

[Adam Schafer]

But I feel. I mean, they got. They got into snow gear and stuff like that. They get in a rain jackets like that. This kind of windbreaker vibe. Like the flannels. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, they got a lot able to cast up there. Doug. I want to see what it's called what Adam has, because.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Let me see if I can switch.

[Adam Schafer]

I bought the last one in the store when we just did it. We did a shoot for them. Oh, that's why. Just recently. Yeah. And they get. Every time. They get me.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Would you guys come up with this?

[Adam Schafer]

They give me. They give me every time I'm in there because there's something new that just

[Justin Andrews]

got right to the party.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you pulling it up right now, Doug?

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm trying to get it.

[Adam Schafer]

What's the name of it?

[Doug]

I don't know which one you're referring to exactly. So many jackets.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. You haven't seen me wear it.

[Doug]

I. I probably.

[Adam Schafer]

It's got like a collar. It's got a collar to it. Button. It buttons up. It's lightweight. The. The wrist have like a. Like I can Velcro tighter or loose. Like it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Let me see if I can get this to cast up here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. They come. They got really.

[Adam Schafer]

But I was what I will say this. This is one and. And thank God they've been with us for as long as they have and stuck with us for this long. I'm terrible at remembering all the exact names of. Of. Of all the. All the gear. She's like, I know what I like. I. I know what it is like I know what it is for my. When I see it. But when. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When. When I got to drop and when someone's like, what is it? What are. I'm like Sundays.

[Justin Andrews]

They like Sundays.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Sunday joggers. I know those.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, that was my first favorite with the. The Sunday joggers I've got.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's this one?

[Adam Schafer]

That's the Seaside Sweats. Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Seaside Sweat line is amazing. Sweatshirts.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got any suggestions of what it might be called, Doug?

[Doug]

I wish I could.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't even have a guess, huh?

[Doug]

I don't even have a guess because again, I'm trying to get through all these different.

[Adam Schafer]

Go ahead and put it in the shirt.

[Doug]

Is it considered a shirt jacket?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a jacket. We'll have. We'll make sure the editors find it and put it in the.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

I can't tell you. I mean I see one. It's called the Coronado shirt jacket, which is a button up jacket, but it's

[Sal DeStefano]

almost a collar with a collar. That might be it. It might be it. Coronado shirt jacket. Adam.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean I'm looking really quick right now to see if I can find it in the short time this is men.

[Sal DeStefano]

We'll just go with that or another shirt.

[Adam Schafer]

Everyone's like, that doesn't look like the one Adam was wearing.

[Doug]

It is a button.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's keep talking about 9 11.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm always like, oh, we gotta be careful, dude. Although, hey, conspiracy theory. They're crushing right now. They're like 100 or something like that.

[Justin Andrews]

I think they're understood.

[Sal DeStefano]

While you guys are look. While Doug is confused looking this up.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

What do you think the next. Let's. Let's bet some bets.

[Adam Schafer]

V. It's a v.1 coach jacket.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, v1. Coach jacket.

[Adam Schafer]

V1. V1. Coach jacket.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, what is, what is the next conspiracy theory that will be proven right?

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

There's so many.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I can't think of it.

[Adam Schafer]

What hasn't. Tell me what's on the table still.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's where I'm trying. That's literally where I'm at right now. Because I think they've all been proven right.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that, I think the power.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. Oh, I got one.

[Adam Schafer]

So.

[Justin Andrews]

So the pyramids, you know, the theory of it being an actual source of power plant. Yeah, I think that one's gonna be all right.

[Sal DeStefano]

The next. I got one, it's gonna be all

[Adam Schafer]

the COVID stuff has already been.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, that's already.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that was bullshit. It's gonna make people super angry. Everybody relax, okay? I'm about to say just calm down. But they did, they took, they took a bunch of AI. AIs. I'll read it to you guys. And what they did and they put in a bunch of data. They took Super Grok Chat, GBT and Google Gemini and they gave them. Fed them a bunch of data and studies and they all concluded that vaccines cause autism. That's what the AIs did. Whoa, I hope that doesn't come out true, you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

If that does, that's such a, it's such a hot topic too.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is brutal. But if that comes out, by the way, who knows if they're right or whatever. But if it comes out and that's proven. Oh my God, that's going to be really.

[Adam Schafer]

I wonder how really bad how, what, what data they were scouring. Is it just a correlation though? Would they, would they put there.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I have no idea. Yeah, like that's, I don't know how AI does it.

[Adam Schafer]

I, Yeah, I would imagine what led to that, you know, quote unquote conspiracy theory, if you want to call it that. Is that there. There was a high enough correlation that people started connecting the saying that. So there was already. I mean, I think the human mind had already figured out that there's. There's core. There seems to be a correlation there.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so there must have been a

[Justin Andrews]

release of a lot of data because they do internal studies all the time with these medications.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it analyzed a 82 page study is what they did. And they, they concluded this is what the AI devices concluded.

[Adam Schafer]

There you go, Douglas.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. That's nice. I have mine in. Mine's like a charcoal color. Yeah, it's sick, dude. It's really Cool. I didn't know there was other colors. I was so getting other colors.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look at that, dude. Yeah, it should be a model for them, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

Stop it.

[Justin Andrews]

You're gonna have a face like that.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't have that. Look, dude. I don't have a jawline like that. No. You ever seen, hey, show me a model. It's got a fat face. Yeah, models don't have fat faces.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what?

[Adam Schafer]

You.

[Sal DeStefano]

You kind of. That's weird. That's true. You're like ultra handsome. Fat face, though.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

How does that work?

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good job, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you gotta look confused. Like, where is he looking?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't have the. I don't have the jawline, dude, to be. To be a model at all, so. Or the luxurious hair. Justin has that. Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not a model.

[Sal DeStefano]

Zebiotics is the world's first and only pre alcohol drink that actually works. Remember, this is genetically modified bacteria, okay? It's patented. And what this bacteria does when you consume it, it's probiotic is it breaks down acetaldehyde in the gut. What's acetaldehyde? It's one of the negative byproducts of alcohol. So when you drink alcohol, it breaks down this negative byproduct in the gut so it doesn't get into your bloodstream like it normally would. You feel way better is the thing you need to have before you drink Zebiotics. And if you go through our link, you'll get yourself a hookup. Go to zbiotics.com that's Z B-I O-T I C S.com mindpump26. Use the code mindpump26. Get 15% off. Back to the show.

[Doug]

Our first caller is Lisa from Pennsylvania.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Lisa.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Lisa? Hello.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Hi. Good. How are you?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good. How can we help you?

[Lisa (Caller)]

First off, I want to thank you guys. I really enjoy your podcast and I've learned a lot.

[Adam Schafer]

Awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

What you got for us?

[Lisa (Caller)]

So I'll just jump right into my question. So my question is how should I train during pregnancy and before getting pregnant? What should be the goal during this time and what can I expect? So for a little context, I eventually want to cut and reach a body fat goal of 20 to 22%. I'm currently 5:1 and around 130 pounds with a body fat around 28%. I eat around 2300 to 2500 calories per day. I did a reverse diet at 25. I got up to 2500 to get my period back, and I've had a consistent period the past three months. So after having my first baby, I had a tough postpartum. I had an unexpected C section and lost a lot of weight afterwards. I was around 118 pounds postpartum. I didn't have a period. Even after I stopped breastfeeding and finally realized I had hypothalamic amenorrhea, I cut back on activity and I increased my calories. I eventually got it back one and a half years after giving birth, I've been at maintenance. And while I really want to try to work towards my body fat goal, I know I shouldn't try to cut right now. My husband and I want to start trying for a second baby in the next couple months. Should my goal during this time be maintenance? Can I expect to make any gains during pregnancy?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Good question. I see you wearing scrubs, by the way. Do you work in the medical field?

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome. What do you do, if you don't mind me asking?

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yeah, I'm actually a dentist.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, cool. Very cool. And I wanted to ask that question because it seems like just based off of, you know, not getting your period and kind of what you experienced before, that you probably veer more towards stress and do rather than rest. Is that accurate, would you say? Yeah. Okay. So for people listening, hypothalamic amenorrhea is a result of, typically it's too much stress, not enough eating, and so your body just doesn't want to be fertile. So what you did during that period is you probably did less work and ate more, and then the period came back, and now you're saying you got it back for the last three months.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yeah. And also I have a history of an eating disorder, so I think even though my body fat percentage and like, even my weight was probably, like, at a, like, could be a healthy number, I think just given what my body's been through in the past, too, maybe it's a little more protective.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep, I would agree. That's a really, really good observation.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Very good observation. So your body fat percentage is actually exactly where you want to be to get pregnant. So typically, mid to high 20s is where you'll see the best fertility. If you're trying to get pregnant right now, there is no fitness goal. You're just working out. Now, if you get stronger, that's a good sign because that means you're eating enough. So if you have to have a goal, the goal I would have is to get stronger in the gym.

[Justin Andrews]

Muscle Preservation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So because getting stronger typically means I'm eating enough, my stress is okay, I'm getting good sleep. So if you need a goal, it's to get stronger. And I would start, I would start back up on the slow reverse diet right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I keep getting calories around 2500 for sure. 2500 in a three day a week type of training program or like a Maps 15 type of protocol. Either one of those two programs with eating 2500 calories should keep you in that good place.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I like Maps 15 a lot, especially with the workload that you probably have and the responsibilities that you hold. Plus your bait. Your first child is what, a year and a half old?

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yeah. He'll be turning too soon.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so you're still. Your hands full. Yeah, you still got your hands full. So it takes a little while for that to slow down. So I would go maps 15, I would continue to reverse diet. And then when you're pregnant, the idea is for exercise is to maintain good pain free mobility and health. And so Maps 15 would remain to be the best program. And walking. And you want to listen to your body. As you probably already know, first trimester sometimes really sucks. So if you can only do a little bit, then do that. If you can't do anything, then don't do that. And you're just listening to your body the whole time. Postpartum, once you get cleared, depending on the situation, now you're looking at map starter and that would be the ideal program. Postpartum. By the way, what I'm telling you isn't just the best advice for fertility, it's also the best advice for overall fitness and health. Yeah. They're actually both the same. Because if we go opposite of what I'm saying, not only will you reduce your chances of getting pregnant, you'll also prolong the amount of time it's going to take to quote unquote, get back in shape and all that. So it's actually the same thing. And I'm only saying that to sell you. By the way, what I'm saying is true, I'm not making it up. But I'm only saying that to sell you on this because you probably have a tendency to go, yeah, but I want to, I want to get this at the same time. Yeah, that's right.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yeah. So what you're saying is I can, I should keep increasing my calories right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you at 2500 right now?

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yeah. And I mean, I think just give or take the, the type of day it's it's right around there, but I can eat anywhere from, like, 2300 to 2500, and it seems like my weight is kind of stable.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. You're probably in a good place right now. Are you. What's your activity like throughout the day? How many. How often do you, like, like, how many steps have you ever tracked? How many steps you're at?

[Lisa (Caller)]

I'm at like 10,000, about a day.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. You're moving pretty good then. Yeah, I'd want you hitting 2500.

[Sal DeStefano]

That'd be kind of consistently.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, consistently hitting 2500.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Lisa (Caller)]

So should I try to bump up, like, my calories and I guess, intentionally stronger?

[Adam Schafer]

I would let your body tell you, in other words, I would. The goal would be to hit 25, follow the training program and try and get strong. If you start to build muscle, you'll feel an appetite increase. And if your appetite increases, feed it whole foods and go ahead and let your calories come up. But you also might be at a pretty good number. 20,551.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not bad.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not bad. It's a good place to be.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got your period.

[Adam Schafer]

You're at a healthy body fat percentage. You're probably in a really good place to kind of hover. So I'd hover right around there. But if my appetite increases, because I'm on a good strength training program, I'd let you go up 26, 2800 calories if you feel it. But if you don't feel it, I don't need you to stuff yourself to get over.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I wouldn't go below.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I wouldn't go lower.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I wouldn't go lower. And especially because you just got back your period.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which tells us that you're. You're moving in the right direction.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. We definitely don't want to try and restrict and cut from where you're at.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, you want to.

[Adam Schafer]

You want to eat to where you're satisfied. I think you're at a healthy place at 2500 calories. If your appetite increases, it's probably because you're starting to build muscle on the program. And then I would say go for it. Bump. Bump your calories a little bit.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Okay. During pregnancy, do people still get, like, can they still get stronger during that time?

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you can, but that's not the goal. Right. So in other words, if I'm training you through that process, it's. We're. We're following the same program as that you were doing before you got pregnant. And a good goal for us is, like, can. If we were able to maintain that strength through, that'd be an awesome win. But I'm also listening to your body. Like, if you came in and you saw me and you're like, oh, Adam, I'm just. Didn't get the greatest of sleep. I don't feel great. I'm gonna. I'm gonna back off. Intensity work. But if you're feeling great, we're gonna keep going. Along the way we're going. And I've had clients train literally up till the week they popped a baby out and maintained their strength that they did going into pregnancy.

[Sal DeStefano]

But here's. Here's what you should expect, though. You should expect the first and third trimester to not be as strong.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Typically first trimester, which may be experienced, not all women do, but typically, nausea, I'm not getting enough food because everything sounds gross. And so you're feeling kind of weaker. Second trimester, you know, they call it the honeymoon trimester. I'm feeling great. I'm strong. All good. Third trimester, especially towards the end, I'm out of breath. I don't have the energy. So I. So, you know, maintaining strength is a gift during pregnancy. Getting stronger is like a blessing.

[Adam Schafer]

Just remember this. If you've been listening to the show long enough, you've heard us say this. To maintain the muscle you built takes very little. So if you. If you do a good job right now, before pregnancy, like, as you're trying to get pregnant, like building muscle and staying fit and staying healthy, when you get pregnant, the amount of training and volume you need to maintain that muscle is very minimal. It's 1, like, 1/7. So imagine how much you can still scale back during pregnancy and still keep a healthy, strong, fit body.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Actually, to go off of that. Is it okay if I ask one more question? So with this first. With my first baby after my surgery, it felt I had to build from the ground up. Like, I started. I did pelvic floor therapy. It was body weight. So, like, in that time, I've come a long way, and I lost all that weight, including a lot of muscle and strength, I guess. Is there any. If. If I'm about to do that over again, like, I'm almost nervous to have to do that all over again. Is there anything. Any tips or, like, things I should keep in mind or what I can do differently? I. I know looking back, I'm like, I definitely could have ate more because I. I mean, that's how I lost my period. But if there Is anything else?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I mean, there's.

[Adam Schafer]

Going into. Going into it or after it? Are we talking about, like, what you could be doing right now?

[Lisa (Caller)]

After. After.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, well, after what you did with pelvis, floor stuff is going to be crucial again.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And Lisa, I'm going to say this like it's. There's. So the information that's out there for postpartum fitness is some of the worst I've ever seen. What they tend to advertise is, you know, you get back into shape, you know, six months postpartum, nine months postpartum. Here's the reality. And you're probably experiencing this even as someone who exercises. It takes like two years to feel like your old self. Like, that doesn't mean you weren't progressing the whole time, but, like, it takes a while before you're like, oh, my God, I feel like my old self. And then, boom, I'm pregnant again. Is typically what happens. So you give yourself a little grace. It's a radical change on the body now going into, you know, giving birth at a healthy body weight, feeding yourself well, being strong. The odds that you can have vaginal delivery, especially after having a C section goes up, it's better. It's much better. And then there's other stuff that you could look into. Like, really good doulas seem to increase the odds of a vaginal delivery and stuff like that. But go into it well fed, healthy, don't try to get lean. Don't try to overdo it. You're just taking care of yourself. And then postpartum, you know, it sounds like what you did was okay, and it might take a while. You might happen faster. So second pregnancy, second birth might be way better. My wife had a radically different experience the second time around. Much better. But the expectation is just what we tend to get from the fitness influencer. So crazy wrong. It takes a while.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Okay, so it sounds like it's just kind of unavoidable. Like, it's just hard. Like, you have to kind of work from the ground up and build back up again.

[Adam Schafer]

And here's what's going to be difficult. I don't know. Have you heard me talk about my experience with Katrina when she. When she got. Got cleared, you're gonna feel like you can do more. And I was constantly telling her, you don't need to. Like, we're staying in MAP starter. So she wanted. She. After, like, two weeks of MAP starter, she's like, I want more, but let's get back to map. And I'm like, why you haven't done anything for six weeks, you know, plus, like, it's your body. Very little it will take to elicit change. And so it's like doing pelvic floor exercises. Doing map starter is enough of a program and volume to progress your body over the next three months. And so it was really difficult for her to. To get that. Now I'm caught now. After a while, she put it together and was like, okay. She listened to me and. But it was. I know what it's like. You'll feel good. You'll start to feel good, and you'll want to do more. The proper way is probably what you did, which is pelvic floor stuff. Then start to introduce exercise. But when you're coming off a layoff of six, eight weeks of no exercise at all and also giving birth, you don't need to do very much for your body to start to adapt and change in the right direction. And in fact, doing too much will only set you back and you take longer to get to where you are.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, there's also too. Because C sections are so common, we tend to think of them as like, a minor procedure. That's a big. It's a big surgery. I mean, they cut right through lots of different, you know, core stability, core muscles.

[Adam Schafer]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if you have another C section, you're gonna have to add. You add some time to that for sure, which you've already experienced. So just keep that in mind as well.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Right. Is the goal of, like, a body fat percentage like 20 to 22%? Is that realistic one day? Like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Yes.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Do I need to, like, just, like, redefine and, like.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. 20, 22. Redefine postpartum. Okay. Once things start to settle and you start to feel good and you're healthy and your baby's sleeping, and then you can start chasing it. But the ideal healthy body fat percentage before, during, and after pregnancy is actually mid to high 20s. It's not low 20s. Low 20s is like fitness, I look good in bikini type of deal. But when it comes to, like, you need a little bit of that cushion. It also tends to be. If you're fit and healthy, I should say that's the context. It tends to give you a better hormone profile. So that's. You kind of want to stay there for a little bit and maybe not chase getting leaner until much later.

[Adam Schafer]

Also, keep this in mind, too, which we. We always try to communicate is 25 to 27 looks different with more muscle, too. Sometimes we get this arbitrary number of, like, Oh, I, I think that percentage is where I would look this way. It's like, I bet If I put 10, 15 pounds of muscle on you right now, same body fat percentage, you would look different. You would look more shapely. You would have. You, you're so a lot of times we get hung up on like a body fat percentage, and we're far healthier and better off trying to build more muscle on our body. And then you can carry yourself at a higher body fat percentage and still have the look that you're trying to achieve at 20, 22. So don't get hung up on a percentage of a number per se. You're in a better place eating more calories, trying to build muscle. And when you come out of the baby, you do that slowly and focus more on that. Focus more on getting a healthy metabolism, building muscle, getting strong, and taking your time and listening to your body. And like, you'll, you'll get there. And if you absolutely want to get to this, like, if you were my client, you're like, I want to see what it looks like. Okay, we could get down there. I'll show you. But I could also show you what you loving your body looks like at 25 to 28 body fat, too.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I think for a long period, I was just, I wanted to look like I worked out because I, I've lifted for several years and I just felt like I didn't look like it. And so I think that was why I came up with that goal or that number. Just in my mind, I was like, that's when you look lean and fit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

No, totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

I get. At least I can ask you a question.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Would your friends and your husband say you look like you lift weight?

[Lisa (Caller)]

I don't know. I mean, my husband will, but he's also. Yeah, but he's my husband.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, he also sees you naked, so he has the best, he has the best vantage, to be honest.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he's the most important person. What he thinks of how you look is way more important than other people. But, and also, look, you said you have a history of challenge around this. You know, you can't necessarily trust your subjective, you know, how you view yourself physically. So this is a good time to, like, ask your husband and ask your friends and, and they're probably going to be honest with you. And you probably already get comments. I bet you already do get comments, maybe at work or whatever. Like, oh, yeah, you look like you work out or you look fit and you might discredit them because you're like, no, no, I don't, you're just being nice type of deal. So just consider that as well.

[Adam Schafer]

We're gonna have Doug send Maps 15 over to you and then after you, after you have this baby, you can reach back out to us. Let us know how you're, let us know how you're.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you have mass 15?

[Justin Andrews]

What do you guys think about.

[Lisa (Caller)]

No, I don't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

With the pelvic floor emphasis.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, no, even better. Let's go. Maps 15. Muscle Mommy. Thanks, Justin. That's the best one for you.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Thank you guys so much. Thanks for taking my call.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it. Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

You're do great.

[Lisa (Caller)]

Thank you. Thank you. Bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, good call, Justin. I forgot all about that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

I just thought of that, Forgot that.

[Adam Schafer]

I forgot that I fought for that pelvic floor exercise. You remember that?

[Sal DeStefano]

It is.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I mean that's in the original, but then yeah, we, we definitely put that in the 15.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I, I, I really think it's important for people to understand like fit and so, so fit, meaning you've got good fitness.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

So strong stamina, like good fitness. You compare the typical woman at 20% versus 26%, same fitness. The 26% body fat person or woman is more resilient, probably more likely to have a better hormone profile, better energy. Better energy, more, more fertile, more, you know, more resilient postpartum, post injury, post illness, post surgery, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's just, this is just, this is just for real, especially when it comes versus health, especially when it comes to fertility. And we get hung up on like what this like fitness look that we see on social media and think that's what ultimate health looks like. But in many cases it doesn't. Many cases it's a, we know this for men now, men's fertility is not nearly as fragile, but you can look at athletic performance and men typically perform better athletically at 15 or 16% than they do at 10%.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I, I'm gonna keep beating the Dr. Gabriel Lyons drum with the, you know, our problem is we're under muscled.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And I, and I even like this, I feel so strongly about this right now because of what I've personally just experienced too is like, it's wild how, how different our body can look with 10 or 15 pounds more muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Same body fat.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, same body fat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so, and, and I think this is even more true for women because women have been marketed to for so long, this kind of skinny, small, like yeah. And if, if, if she, I bet you if I put kept her body fat percentage so we go up fat. So I put on 10 pounds of muscle oil and probably some body fat and some body fat on her even more so more fat on her. But I put 10 pounds of that more so more muscle. I bet she would like the way she looks. And, and I think that more people need to understand that, that even these, the body fat percentage is better than the scale. But even it can be deceiving on this, this number that we get obsessed with that we think, oh, this is the best my body ever looked like

[Sal DeStefano]

was at this percent by the way. Like if you ask men what looks best on women and vice versa, healthy men and women, I should say they tend to like higher body fat percentage because we are geared to look at things like fertility and health. Yeah. And so even women would say it's noticeable. A guy that's got muscle around 15 looks better than 9% in real life. And men listen men for the same thing. A woman with muscle and shape and strength at 26, she looks damn good. 20%. Most guys would probably go for the 26%. So, and this is just again, this is not saying that you do it because the other person likes it more, but rather this points to health more than it does anything.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Taryn from Pennsylvania.

[Adam Schafer]

Hi Taren, how you doing? Taren, how's it going?

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Taryn (Caller)]

So over the past six years I have been through a lot medically. I had a radical hysterectomy in 2019 for cervical pre cancer, found out that I was BRCA positive in 2024 and then in 2025 I had a full ovary removal, thrusting me into surgical menopause at age 39, a double mastectomy and a reconstruction all in a 10 month time period. I finally been cleared to start being active again. But the mix of surgical menopause and a year of decreased movement has really thrown me into a loop. Hormonal issues, dizziness, weight gain and really just being disconnected from who I was before. So my care team was great, but they're all very siloed in their specialties. So I've just been thrown around from doctor to doctor, who other than handing me an estrogen patch and telling me to get back to normal, haven't really helped me on a path to kind of this new phase of my life. So my question is really for any woman in my position thrust into surgical menopause in their late 30s, coming out of major Surgeries. I'm a busy mom. I own a business. I'm on the road a lot. You know, what should I really prioritize to rebuild my strength, get my health back in order, get my hormones on track, and then also, how do I know who to trust in this space when it really just feels super noisy sometimes?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Well, first off, I'm sorry you've gone through all that, but I'm really, really grateful that you had the courage to come on here, share your story, because there are women listening also have a very good attitude. Yeah. Who probably don't have a lot of people that they can listen to. And so they're probably like, hey, tell me what we can do here. You're on hormone therapy now. You've been cleared for that. So is that. Is that going on?

[Lisa (Caller)]

Yes.

[Taryn (Caller)]

Yes. So I am on an estrogen patch, but that's it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Okay. So no progesterone, no other hormones? Okay.

[Taryn (Caller)]

No, because I don't have a uterus anymore.

[Sal DeStefano]

Got it. Okay. So here's the deal. And on top of this, which is lots of stress and trauma on the body, you also said you've got kids business. So there's a lot of things going on here. And so what we want to do with exercise is we want to be very gentle. The focus should be on strengthening because muscle is very protective. It also requires little stimulus to kind of elicit that change. So building strength takes a lot less damage and stress than if you're trying to, like, become a marathon runner. So it's just going to be more appropriate. Maps 15 would be the perfect. So we have a series of Maps 15 programs. There's Maps 15, the original Maps 15, muscle, mommy symmetry, perform like they're all that protocol for you would be perfect. On top of that, I would just look at steps to stay active. So if you're not already tracking steps, you know, 8 to 10,000 steps a day is a decent amount of activity that'll give you the most benefit or a majority of the benefit you'll get from being active. And that's it. That's really it. And so with that protocol, what you should experience is strength gains, improvements in mobility, and just general improvements in overall fitness. The mistake you can make, Taren, is if you push, overdo it. Yeah. And you're gonna be more sensitive to that than most people. But I will say this. Women with children who also have a business are. They're far more sensitive to the stresses of exercise than they realize anyway. Most women with kids, job, they're more sensitive to the stress of exercise than they realize anyway. So my recommendation to them typically sounds very similar to what I'm telling you. Just you're going to be even more sensitive to over applying stress. So when you go to the gym, practice the exercises, when you feel like you're stronger, add a little bit and that approach is going to yield you great results long term.

[Adam Schafer]

If you'd be open to it. I'd actually love for you to work with one of our coaches too. I don't know if that's something that's feasible for you or that you could consider or not, but just because you have a unique situation and as you're going through, I'd love for you to have somebody who you could reach out to, that you could trust and just be like, hey, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I notice. And they could make modifications both in the gym and nutritionally for you as you go through that process and. Or refer you to someone who'd be. We have just a great network as far as other doctors, professionals, things like that too. So I don't know if that's something that you're open to, but I think you'd be a great person to be able to help through something like this.

[Taryn (Caller)]

Yeah, that would be awesome because I. It can really feel like you're on an island and there's not a whole lot out here for, you know, I think women who are in this at my age too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and just consider this. When it comes to what kind of exercise and nutrition advice you should listen to. Obvious, of course. Of course you have unique situations. So if your doctors say, hey, you know, avoid this or that, then you want to listen to them. But beside that, the approach is going to be balancing the stress from the stimulus and the adaptation. So like, am I progressing performance wise? This is a really good measure for you. Did I get stronger? Do I feel like I'm stronger? Do I feel more stable? If the answer is yes, you're moving the right direction, don't add more because the tendency is going to be like, hey, I'm getting stronger. I feel good. Like, let me just throw more at my body. Because there's a line that when you cross over, your body's going to feel like it's shutting down just because of the hormone.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it may interrupt sleep, it may kind of impede on other metrics. So yeah, to pay attention mainly if you, if it's. You feel stronger, you feel like you're energizing from your Workouts, it's more medicine for you. That's, that's good.

[Adam Schafer]

This is why I think the. Having a coach that you can just kind of bounce this off of as you go through this process because it's going to be a kind of a week to week type of deal on how you're feeling. Some weeks we may feel great and the perfect amount of volume and training. Other weeks we may need to adjust certain things based off of your lifestyle, sleep, whatever else you got going on, because it sounds like you're busy.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think you would do great with, with one of the coaches. Like, this is obviously a unique situation and I think I'd want, I'd want to be talking to you as we go through this process because communication, this is not like, oh, just go do these things. See you later. Hope it works out, you know, And I also don't want you to feel that way either. Like, I think Sal's giving perfect advice on where to go, but it's not,

[Sal DeStefano]

it's not going to be individualized as we go along.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. I recognize there probably be some, some pivots along the way too.

[Taryn (Caller)]

Yeah, certainly. And I'm one who will go one to 100 way too quickly.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Which is a good reason to have the coach too, is just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, good. The coach will be the brakes for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. So we'll, we'll do that. If you're, if you have time, I'll have someone call you and, and reach out to you and, and tell you exactly what that would look like and then hopefully we see you a part of the family.

[Sal DeStefano]

And again, thank you for coming on and asking this question.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know there's people listening right now that just would love to hear advice and so this was very helpful.

[Adam Schafer]

I can tell you're going to be successful. You have a great attitude and everything, everything that you've gone through and been through. You seem very positive and you want to do the right thing. So you're going to be great. It's going to be great helping you.

[Taryn (Caller)]

Awesome. Thank you so much, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it. Thank you. Are you guys familiar with the Brica Gym genes or.

[Adam Schafer]

I was going to ask her to

[Sal DeStefano]

explain it depending on the variation, which she probably had. The one that's the one, the one that will increase your odds the most if you have it. Your odds of getting a really aggressive breast cancer in your life is like 70 something percent. And so when they test you for this gene, they typically recommend removing yeah. And for the reproductive system, so cancers, like ovarian cancer, stuff like that. So they'll typically be like, okay, you've got this gene. And so we're going to recommend double mastectomy, basically preventative surgeries, and we're going to remove your.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

So all before you even actually get it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So she already had it. She already had it. Then they tested her and they're like, oh, it's. You got this gene. So the odds that you're gonna get it again, especially since you had it the first time, are really high. So they go in and they just basically preventative, you know, drastic surgery.

[Adam Schafer]

1. She had a great attitude. It's remarkable. Awesome that she was able to have kids out first, you know that she's had kids. She's had her kids. I mean, my sister had to have a hysterectomy at a very young age, which is. Is tough to do that. She did even younger. Cassie had it even younger than that. So it's tough. But I. This is something where it's like, we could sit here and give, like, all the. The. The. What we think is the best advice.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, you're right. I mean, she's, you know, through this process, it would be great to have someone there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because especially busy lifestyle, all these things that she's going through. Very likely. Even with the. The best prescription we can give right now in this 10 minutes, she's gonna have a week where she's like, hey,

[Justin Andrews]

I'm monitoring how she feels.

[Sal DeStefano]

Feel.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I feel this way. Or this is what's going on. Or even, like. And I'm glad she said it. Like, I feel great. Can I do that? I'm gonna do this or should I do that? Like, and having a coach, like, no, no, no, no. We'll just.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So that will help her out.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Vanessa from Georgia.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Vanessa.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Vanessa?

[Justin Andrews]

Hello.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Hey, y'.

[Adam Schafer]

All.

[Taryn (Caller)]

How are you?

[Adam Schafer]

Good, good.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's happening?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Good. Well, I have a question about the belly and, like, how to unbloat it and all that kind of stuff. So I thought y' all would be the first people I'd want to ask.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, let's go.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's hear it.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Okay, so a little backstory. I'll go ahead and just read the email that I sent. I'm a tall woman, five' 11, and I put on muscle pretty easily, even at 47, but I also stay chunky looking, especially chunky looking, especially in my belly. It's always puffy no matter if I'm 137 pounds, which is me in Marine Corps boot camp when I was 23 or I shot up to 200 pounds at one point when I was more sedentary. Currently I'm about 160, 667, and I'm lifting four to five days a week. By 2028, I'd like to compete in my first natural bodybuilding show in the bikini division. And I'm confident about everything else but the belly. Just, I'm really concerned about that coming in lean enough. So I eat low to super low carb and I definitely get my 150 grams of protein. I sleep well. So what would y' all recommend for finally leaning out my mid and low Ellie area?

[Adam Schafer]

I'm. I'm curious. First, you have you, have you body fat tested? Because I'm. I'm willing to bet that you're at a really good weight. Weight where if you build muscle pretty well like you say you're 5 11, you're built similar to what my ex was built like, and that's about where she carried her weight. 165 to 175 pretty much is where. So where's your body fat percentage right now?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

The only body fat measurement that I've had was one of those. I. I don't know if I can really trust them. You hold it with your hands and you stand on the scale and supposedly it said I was at 24.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That's why I figured you'd be in a good, good range. I had a feeling you weren't. And specifically the stomach area, it could be bloat from something we're eating too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it bloat or is it belly fat?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

So that's why I've restricted my diet for the last couple years. Basically done like an elimination diet. I don't eat a whole lot of new foods. I'm staying away from any of the fodmaps. So, yeah, you know, tomatoes and stuff like that. I do well with rice and potatoes, but even then I'm having trouble eating enough. So that's why I've mostly cut out the carbs. So I'm just focused on like, really nutrient dense foods like beef, lots of steak, lots of, you know, hamburger, things like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, so, Vanessa, to be clear, it's not belly fat, it's bloat. Because you know the difference, right? Do you know the difference between the two?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

So maybe I, maybe I don't. I mean, I got jiggly.

[Sal DeStefano]

So belly fat, you can grab and squeeze like this. Blow. It feels hard. It's kind of digestive. So my stomach's protruding. Yeah.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

So I would say that there's a little of both because I can still pinch.

[Sal DeStefano]

So there's two directions here because if you notice digestive issues, like a lot of digestive issues with certain foods, then the direction you want to go is with a functional medicine practitioner and identify what's really happening. Is it sibo or sifo? You can get tested for parasites. Heal your gut. Like, that's all digestive stuff. Belly fat, there's two. If it's belly fat, there's two directions I typically look at with someone like you. One, you know, you were in the Marines boot camp. You competed. You want to compete again. There's pretty high odds that you may be viewing yourself a bit distorted. And I don't see a picture of you, so I can't determine that. But based off of those right there, the odds that you see yourself in a distorted way. Oh, you pick yourself apart.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm almost certain.

[Sal DeStefano]

Higher.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm almost certain of that. I. I'm looking. She's 47. She's 5 11. I know. She. If she says she puts on muscle, good. I'm.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm pretty.

[Adam Schafer]

Pretty confident. I can envision what you probably look like. You probably look really good. Yeah, you probably look really good. Maybe not to yourself, but I'm. I'm. I'm pretty sure you look pretty good. 5 11, 47 and 167 and probably around 22 to 24. Body fat is a good look now, especially on somebody who says they can build muscle. What are your lifts, like? Tell me about, like, squatting, Deadlifting. Like, what do you. What are your numbers? What can you. What can you.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

I don't actually know what PRs are because I don't. Ego lift. Yeah, I did that before and it didn't work out so well. I ended up getting hurt. So, yeah. To avoid all of that kind of stuff. But let's see, just to give an idea, like, I can deadlift, like, 190.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're good. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what you work out with.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You're good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're strong.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now, here's the other side of this. Okay. Were you always an athlete? Did you always find that you were good at sports?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

No, I rode horses, so that's what I did.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's a sport. So here's the thing, too. Some women have what's known as an athletic body type and body fat distribution. And so what this typically looks like is hips are a little more narrow, and there's a little bit more storage in the belly than what you would see traditionally where it looks like a pear. And so sometimes you'll run into this with female athletes where once they go above 25%, they'll have a little bit more belly fat than another woman who's at 25%, which actually lends itself well to athletes. So a female athlete that does really well is going to have more narrow hips, going to make them faster, a little more belly fat. That's why men store body belly fat in the belly, because. Yeah, so. So there's that as well. But I would guess I would go in the direction of what Adam said. I think you might be kind of picking yourself apart. If you do have actual digestive issues, though, you want to get to the

[Adam Schafer]

root, and going into a bikini composition competition would not be an ideal situation. In that.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

In that either.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if you find eating, you know, the fodmap foods cause digestive issues and bloat, and you got to stay away from too many carbs because it hurts your stomach. That's a gut issue. That's a gut health issue.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you found any foods that are, like, you know, are inflammatory for you?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

So far, it's been like tomato sauce and jalapenos.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. That's not too out of the. Out of the ordinary. I mean, those are. You know, you have your night shades.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But if you find digested, like, what happens when you eat too many carbs? Do you just feel super distended and painful?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

It depends. If they're really clean, like potatoes and just plain old white rice, I don't have any problems. In fact, I blow through those very easily.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

It's the preservatives. I think breads is what it was.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you probably fine? Yeah, you're probably fine. There's really no way to spot reduce. So getting leaner overall, unfortunately. Yeah. What makes it happen?

[Adam Schafer]

Where are your calories at? Right. Where your calories at right now? Do you track?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

I do, yeah. Average is 1600.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. Too low.

[Adam Schafer]

Too way too low.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way too low.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We need a reverse diet.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You got a lot of muscle on you. You're tall. You're lifting weights four to five days a week. You should be up to, like, 23, 24.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah. So if you. If you came to me to. To hire. If you hired me to be your coach for competing, I wouldn't let you do compete. Bikini until we were in the high 2000 calorie range, maintaining your weight. So you. That would be before we, Before I would let you get ready for a prep or pick a show, I would reverse diet you all the way up to a Good at least 28, 20, 900 calories. Your height, muscle strength that you have on YouTube. You should be. We, we need to get our calories up. We got to get our calories because you, you have nowhere to cut if you're right now we're gonna go 800 calories. Yeah. You're not gonna. I mean that. I'm so glad I said that, asked that question, because there's no way I would want you to get ready for a bikini show from a 1600 calorie maintenance. That's a, that's all bad.

[Justin Andrews]

There's nowhere to go.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. All bad. You'll feel, Feel horrible. You'll feel horrible, and then you won't even get close to the, the physique that you're trying to attempt to get. You'll. You'll be disappointed on both ends. And so it's like the move right now, reverse diet, would be to reverse diet slowly and just, and keep focusing on getting strong. And since that's what's, what's exciting because you're already somebody who's strong and you put muscle on. Don't shy away from that. It's easy to, like, lose muscle if you stop lifting weights. Don't worry, it'll go away. So don't, don't shy away from building muscle, letting the scale go up because we're building muscle, but focusing on getting those calories up to put us in a healthier place. And I, I'm willing to bet you would. You're going to feel better. You'll look better.

[Sal DeStefano]

Definitely from 1600 calories, all the things. Yeah, you'll feel way better. I would bump you 200 right out the gates. Yeah. Route the gates go up to 1800 calories.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Are you, are you, are you, are you, are you, Are you listening? I don't know how regularly you listen to the show. Are you listening to my journey with Corinne right now, coaching her?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Yeah. Yeah, I listen to you guys a lot. In fact, thank you so much. I work night, so you guys get me through the night.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, cool.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, cool. Yeah. This is what we're going through right now is I'm reverse dieting her. And, you know, she's, she's a tiny, tiny little petite thing, and we're, we're up to 2700 calories. So I. And I want. I still am going, so I want. I want to keep pushing her in that direction before I let her come back down in calories. So, yeah, I'd want you up much higher so that same focus. And you work. You work not. So you on your feet a lot. What do you do?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Yeah, Yeah. I stock shelves right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

So lots of movement. Bending. Oh, yeah. Moving constantly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your calories are way too low, Lisa.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

I don't feel depleted, though. That's kind of where. Because I thought maybe that too.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, just wait till you start feeding yourself more, and then you'll know. Then you'll be like, oh, yeah, I was way.

[Adam Schafer]

I want you.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is way better.

[Adam Schafer]

I want to. You. You want to program, like, maps 15, and I want to reverse diet you. This is a very similar kind of protocol as I got correct on. So I'd love to send maps 15 to you. I take Sal's advice. At least 200 calories right out the gates. Right out the gates. 200 more calories a day. And then a good goal is to every. Every week or every other week, bump a hundred and keep going that way and only. And just maps 15. That's all you need. Okay. The more. More training harder isn't better. Stay away from the scale if that messes with your head. So, like, okay, cool. If you're cool with it, then. Then that's fine. But I expect that. Expect some of that as we. As we do that. But I think you're gonna put muscle on, and I think we're gonna get a place where we get our calories up, and you should be feeling strong and. And good energy, and then that'll give us some room to. To totally manipulate calories.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Where should I bring those 200 calories in from?

[Justin Andrews]

Carbs?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, rice. Rice, if you like. I love rice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Because I'm assuming your. Your pro. Your protein's good, your fat's okay. Are you okay with your fats? What are you at with grams?

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Yeah, I'm 120 grams of fat.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Carbs had 200 grams. 200. 200 grams of carbs.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I love, too, is. Especially since you said rice and potatoes is. Is literally just use that as your. Just keep, you know, a half a cup or a cup a day is what you're, you know, whatever that is. And then just the next week, add another half a cup. Then the next week of that, add another half cup and just keep Doing that, you know.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, Vanessa.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Thanks y'.

[Adam Schafer]

All. Right, keep us posted.

[Vanessa (Caller)]

Absolutely. Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

God, I'm glad you asked that. 1600 calories is if you're working out four or five days a week and you're active and you're not. And she's 5 11.

[Adam Schafer]

She's built like my ex.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And there's no way, bro, she's deadlifting. Almost 200 pounds. She works out with. That's not PR numbers. She works out with almost 200 pound. Deadlifting. She says she puts on muscle. Good. She's 5 11. That's a dude. That's what my ex walked around at 165 to 175 year round as a fit personal trainer. And. And she does. She would. She's thicker in that area. But it's just that that's her body type. And then when you get. She'd hit stage at 150.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So she's not far off from like a stage weight, but she needs to build muscle, build her metabolism up before she comes back down that. That direction.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally, totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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