2828: The "Goldilocks Zone" - Build Muscle WITHOUT Bulking or Cutting

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2828: The "Goldilocks Zone" – Build Muscle WITHOUT Bulking or Cutting
Release Date: April 3, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew tackles one of the fitness industry’s biggest sacred cows: the relentless cycle of “bulking” (eating in a large calorie surplus to gain muscle) and “cutting” (eating in a calorie deficit to lose fat). They argue that most people are better off aiming for a middle ground—what they dub the “Goldilocks Zone”—where you live close to calorie maintenance, focus on whole foods, and let your body naturally achieve a healthy balance of muscle and leanness. The crew also takes listener Q&A, discusses the power and pitfalls of supplements, and even reflects on neurodiversity and tech’s influence on modern fitness and life.

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Main Discussion: The Goldilocks Zone vs. Bulking and Cutting

The Problem with Bulking and Cutting

• Sal’s Opening Argument [03:10]:
  • Constant bulking and cutting makes fitness stressful, obsessive, and unsustainable.
  • “You stop progressing, and you stop because of it. Stop trying to bulk and cut. Let's talk about it.” — Sal [03:10]
• Definition Rundown:
  • Bulking: Eating above maintenance to gain muscle (not fat).
  • Cutting: Eating below maintenance to lose fat.
• Key Point: For many, the constantly shifting and hyper-tracking of diet removes the joy and sustainability of fitness, making long-term adherence far less likely.

Why is the Goldilocks Zone Ideal?

• Adam’s Perspective [05:55]:
  • Maintenance/recomp is ultimately ideal both physically and psychologically.
  • People like bulking/cutting because it creates measurable changes (even if they’re not always meaningful).
  • “The reason why bulking/cutting is so popular is...people have a really hard time staying in that Goldilocks zone where the scale doesn’t really move.” — Adam [06:29]
• Justin’s Take:
  • The end goal for most should really be sustainable homeostasis—a lifestyle, not a phase.
  • Initial structure is useful for learning, but the aim should be guilt- and stress-free eating.
  • “You kind of want to work your way to this place where it’s basically maintenance or recomp, you’re serving this as more of a long-term health strategy.” — Justin [08:04]

The Goldilocks Zone Method

• Sal’s Coaching Evolution [11:02]:
  • The second half of his career focused not on macro tracking, but on core behaviors:
    • Eat mostly whole foods
    • Center meals around protein
    • Don’t skip meals; eat when hungry, stop when satisfied
  • “When you eat whole natural foods…everybody ended up here [around healthy body fat]. We weren’t trying to cut, we weren’t trying to do anything.” — Sal [11:26]
• Counterpoints & Caveats:
  • Some special cases (e.g., with disordered eating history) benefit from temporary, structured bulks/cuts to recalibrate signals.
  • For truly sedentary or uninformed beginners, some learning/tracking might be necessary for a period.

Building Trust Beyond the Scale and Mirror

• “Non-Scale Victories” [16:58]:
  • Sal shifted focus for clients to improved strength, sleep, energy, mood, and pain reduction.
  • Eventually, positive body composition changes “sneak up” because adherence is easier.
  • “You just did two more reps. How’s your sleep? Oh my God, I’m sleeping better…And then eventually what would happen is they’d say things like, I’m getting leaner. What’s going on, like, this is weird, I don’t feel like I’m trying really hard.” — Sal [17:17]

When is Bulking or Cutting Appropriate?

• Highly competitive physique, athletes, or those with disordered signals may require targeting (but not forever).
• “There are cases where a targeted bulk or a targeted cut might be important… But for a lot of people…just eat whole foods, focus on protein, and let your body settle.” — Sal [10:05]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Moment | |-----------|--------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:10 | Sal | “Stop trying to bulk and cut. It’s destroying your experience...Let’s talk about it.” | | 06:29 | Adam | “I think the reason why bulking and cutting has been so popular…is I think people have a really hard time staying in that Goldilocks zone.” | | 11:26 | Sal | “When you eat whole natural foods…everybody just fell pretty healthy ranges in these healthy, lean, ish body fat percentages without really counting anything…” | | 16:58 | Sal | “So my clients… would have these conversations…What I would do…is I show them…You just did two more reps…How’s your sleep?…and then eventually what would happen is they’d say…‘I’m getting leaner. What’s going on, like, this is weird, I don’t feel like I’m trying really hard.’”| | 25:10 | Sal | “If you let [appetite] run wild, we’re gonna go crazy. That’s not true with natural food. It’s just not.” |

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Supplements, Studies, and Industry Skepticism

Supplement Discussion [29:24–41:58]

• Supplement Contamination Study [33:30]:

  • 1/3 of tested sports supplements contained banned drugs (SARMs, stimulants, amphetamines, cardiac drugs).
  • “That’s a big old chunk. No wonder the FDA is trying to regulate supplements. These companies are going to bring it on themselves.” — Sal [33:55]
  • Boner pills: Many contained Viagra; old prohormones were basically over-the-counter steroids (e.g., Superdrol).

• Nattokinase Study for Heart Health [37:06]:

  • Over 1,000 people, 12 months, significant reduction in arterial plaque, LDL, triglycerides; increase in HDL and artery thickness.
  • “No adverse effects recorded at all. For heart health, this is a remarkable supplement.” — Sal [40:05]

Supplement Advice

• “Do your own research.” — Justin [36:58]
• “That’s the supplement industry for you, ladies and gentlemen. You got to be very, very careful.” — Sal [36:54]

Memorable Anecdotes

• Cooking and meal prep as family time [26:12] – “It’s a hack, for sure.” — Adam
• Hilarious/absurd news headlines and SNL satire on health culture [43:24]
• Sal’s neurodivergence: photographic memory but terrible sense of direction [51:28]

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Listener Q&A [64:45–71:43]

1. How do I combine Spin instruction and strength training without burning out? (Lindsey)

• You simply can’t do it all; high-volume spin is very taxing.
• “Three days a week of spin, one day a week of strength training…that’s it.” — Sal [65:42]
• “The people that I had working in my gym that had the toughest time building muscle were my spin instructors.” — Sal [66:19]

2. Do full-time moms have a higher caloric need, or is stress sabotaging goals? (Midwest Sweetheart)

• Likely need more food and less training volume if energy/strength are low; protein-centric, low-volume suggestions.
• “If your goals are to build strength and you’re not, then most likely you need to be fed more or reduce the stress…” — Adam [67:38]

3. What’s the best MAPS program for a blue-collar worker? (justinjd99)

• Strength training focus, minimal volume: MAPS 15, MAPS Performance 15, MAPS Powerlift 15
• “You don’t need to send a super loud signal to build muscle.” — Adam [68:45]

4. How do I stop the cycle of starting and stopping because of boredom or missing a day? (BigRigs)

• You’re probably doing too much. Consistency > Variety.
• “Break it up…Do something you enjoy rather than skipping.” — Sal [70:15]
• “Build something that you can be very consistent with and then build on that…not all or nothing.” — Adam [70:34]

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Other Highlights

AI & Tech Tangents [45:11+]

• The team discusses AI-generated viral media, AI’s role in modern life, and privacy concerns about tech and data.
• The team jokes about how AI can now identify AI-generated content.
• Neurodiversity: Sal discusses his unique strengths and weaknesses (exceptional recall but poor sense of direction).

Product/Service Mentions (Skip for summary’s sake, but sponsors were Troscriptions, Organifi, nutrition consultations, apparel, and electrolyte drinks.)

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Key Timestamps

• Main topic start: [03:10] – “Stop trying to bulk and cut.”
• Goldilocks Zone Debate: [05:55–24:00]
• Coaching Anecdotes & Behavioral Solutions: [16:58–25:10]
• Supplement Scandals & Studies: [29:24–41:58]
• Family & Community Eating Habits Hack: [26:12]
• Neurodiversity and Fitness: [49:00–54:27]
• Listener Q&A: [64:45–71:43]

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Tone and Style

• Laid-back, conversational, peppered with jokes and personal stories.
• Strong, honest opinions rooted in decades of coaching and science.
• Active skepticism toward fads, extreme protocols, and the profit-first supplement industry.
• Focused on long-term health, practicality, and joy in fitness.

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Summary Takeaways

• For most people, the healthiest, most sustainable path is not bulking or cutting, but living in the “Goldilocks Zone” of maintenance, with a focus on whole foods, protein, and joyful, consistent movement.
• Obsessive tracking and rigid periodization are often unnecessary outside of high-level sport or unique cases.
• Supplements can be useful, but many are contaminated or overhyped; prioritize basics and do research.
• Sustainability, “non-scale victories,” and enjoyment are dramatically undervalued in the mainstream fitness narrative.
• Modern life (tech, stress, processed food) is often the villain, not your own biology or willpower.
• Coaching is about education, building trust, and teaching clients to listen to their bodies—once their body is “speaking the right language.”

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For anyone seeking practical, honest, and evidence-based strategies for building muscle and losing fat without the lifestyle disruption of bulking and cutting phases, this episode is both a myth-busting deep dive and a refreshing call for sanity.

Transcript

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Sal Destefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

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[Sal Destefano]

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[Adam Schaefer]

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[Sal Destefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts

[Adam Schaefer]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews,

[Sal Destefano]

you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we had listeners write questions in that we picked off Instagram. This is mindpump Media. We picked four questions, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 59 minutes long. This is where we talk about fitness, fat loss, muscle gain, workouts, current events, family life. Always a good time. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Troscriptions. These are prescription, strength and grade supplements. Today we talked about their calm and sleep supplement. Combine them together. Best sleep of your life. This stuff is powerful. Go check them out. Get a discount. Go to troscriptions.com that's T R O S C-R-I P T I O N S.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. Get 10% off. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi. Today we talked about their green juice which also contains Ashwagandha. So it's got micronized green supplements in there or greens plus some botanicals that help with things like stress. They help your body adapt to stress. They help with anxiety. Go check them out. Go to organifi.com mindpump use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. Also right now it's 50% off. A nutrition call with a mind pump coach. This is a mind pump certified personal trainer coach. You can get on a call with them and they'll set you up with some nutrition guidance and a nutrition plan. 50% off originally. $99 half off right now. Go to mindpumpnutrition.com use the code APRIL50 for the discount. This offer expires Friday, April 3rd. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, a lot of you need to stop trying to bulk and stop trying to cut. It's destroying your experience. It's making this impossible. You're not progressing, and you stop because of it. Stop trying to bulk and cut. Let's talk about it. What? Yeah, I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Where is this coming from?

[Sal Destefano]

Well, so, you know, just through talking through or talking to a lot of callers that call him, and I get the whole bulk and cut process and why we do it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like 90% of our callers.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So coming in with that. Yeah, so. So for people listening who aren't familiar with those two terms, just real quick. A bulk is the attempt to eat more than you're burning so you can muscle. I don't think anybody bulks to gain body fat. And then a cut is the attempt at reducing your calories below what you're burning in order to cause fat loss. And so someone listening might be like, well, that's why I'm working out. I'm trying to accomplish one or the other or both. And the challenge with it is this constant attempt at manipulating your diet and counting these things for a lot of people makes the experience so the. For lack of a better term, unenjoyable, makes it stressful to the point where they eventually stop because it's a. It's stressful. It sucks. It makes eating can be obsessive. Feel either restrictive or structured, too structured. And it changes the entire workout experience to be really only about accomplishing a particular goal. Which I get that. Like, people have fitness goals. I get that. But when I Coached and trained people. Everybody had a fitness goal. My goal was always, can I get this person to do this for the rest of their life? So regardless of what your goal is, which I'll help you get to, my goal as a coach is, can I get this person to a place where they enjoy doing this? And oftentimes this, like, structured. I got to do this bulk, I got to eat this much, or I got to eat this little. Kind of kills the whole thing and turns it into this experience that really, really sucks. So the question's always like, well, what do I do? How do I eat? What do I do here? What's interesting, and again, I've experienced this with clients and even myself, is if you eat a particular way, which we'll talk about, because I'm sure you guys have some input. But there are ways to eat where your body kind of directs you in a way to where you eat more when your body's trying to build. If you're a bit overweight in terms of body fat, your body actually has. You eat an appropriate amount and you start to lose body fat. And the progress appears to be more of a recomp than it does this dramatic cut in bulk, you know, type of thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I think I'd like to propose an argument to that.

[Sal Destefano]

Sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

I actually think that the cutting and bulking process eases people's mind and simplifies the process of recomping. Just because when you. When. When you try, the ideal place, I think to be, and I think we're probably, most of us probably land is in kind of like this, what we call the. Or try and land in this Goldilocks zone, where it's just a re. It's like a recomp. You're not aggressively bull. I don't think you really try to

[Sal Destefano]

push in one direction.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't think any of us really aggressively bulk or cut. You can make that argument. Back in my competing days, I did stuff like that, but for the most part, I think I just eat somewhere around maintenance, which puts me in this sometimes, which is, I think, an ideal to your argument. An ideal place for people to be both, I think, physically and psychologically. But I think the reason why bulking and cutting has been so popular and why we tend to use it as a tool is because I think people have a really hard time staying in that Goldilocks zone, where the scale doesn't really move north or south when they have a goal of I want to lose fat or I want to build muscle and simplifying it. By putting them in a bulk, say the person who wants to build muscle so we have them. So they say they see some sort of potential movement in the direction they think they're going, even though it may not even be muscle, but they see some sort of like, I'm trying to bulk, I'm trying to build.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So the fact that I'm up three pounds on the scale feels like a positive reinforcement and so I'll stay the course type of deal and vice versa. I'm trying to lean out, I'm trying to cut, I'm trying to lose body fat. And so I'm reducing my calories significantly. And I see the scale goes down a little bit. And so I think that that strategy tends to ease people a little bit. That. Okay, I think I'm going the right direction. But I see your argument. But I think the reason why it, it's tough for the average person is I think the average person struggles to, to be there.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I think they lack knowledge on some level in terms of what they're actually putting in their body. They're blissfully sort of, they have an idealistic opinion about how they eat until they actually, you know, put that on paper. But I, I agree with the initial statements. Like you kind of want to work your way to this place where it's like, it's basically maintenance or recomp or it's, you know, you're, you're serving this as more of a long term health strategy and goal where I can maintain what I'm doing without being too hyper focused on fluctuating into the extremes. So yeah, I think that, at least initially, I think it's helpful to kind of put parameters out there of like, okay, if this, this will, this is where my maintenance really is. This is where, you know, deficits lie. And like, if I'm going to go, you know, extreme in that, or extreme here, you can at least have a basis for getting a portion of, you know, this meal. I can just slightly reduce that meal or I could slightly add to this meal. Like you need some kind of like homeostasis.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I agree with your statement about that. The end goal should be what he's saying. Like, I definitely agree that ultimately that's where I wanted to take all my clients. Ultimately, I, I want to find this homeostasis of where you're eating, where you're in a satisfied place. And you know, and it's not a stress or anything. Yeah, it's not a stress. You're not tracking or pushing really hard to gain or Cutting really hard to lose. You're in this really nice place. But my argument is that a lot, most people aren't there. In fact, most people do better with some sort of a focus on a cut or a ball. Until maybe to Justin's point that that experience and knowledge gets there. That it's like, oh, I can, I don't need to move the scale in order to be successful and I don't need to hyper push or focus in the direction and I can get incredible health.

[Sal Destefano]

And there are, there are cases, and I do want to be clear, there are cases where, um, a targeted bulk or a targeted cut might be important. Um, I'll give you an example. You have somebody who has, who's had eating disorders for much of their life and their idea of eating enough is really off. It's just really off. When they eat enough, like what's appropriate to them. It feels like too much. I'm stuffed. I don't feel good. Yeah. Uh, so with that person, you, you kind of have to recalibrate them. But for a lot of people, by the way, this is what my, my training looked like in the back, back half of my career. The first half of my career was all cutting and bulking. It was all this stuff. The back half of my career asked me how many times I would take clients and have them figure out what they need to eat and get them to a cut or bulk. What it looked like at the end was we're going to focus on like there were parameters, but it looked like this, like you're gonna eat whole foods.

[Justin Andrews]

Feed your activity. Really?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You're gonna eat whole foods. That's what you're gonna focus on. Really. Try and stick to that most of the time, as much as you possibly can. Make your meals protein centric. Don't skip meals when you're hungry. Eat when you feel satisfied. Stop. And towards the back half of my career, this is what my nutrition advice looked like. Now there was coaching through this because although it sounds simple, there's still challenges.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

If you go from a 70% of your calories come from processed food, like most people to whole food, there's some coaching that's involved. No, not skipping meals or eating appropriate, like, you know, meal prepping. Like there's some coaching involved, but there's this, there's this presupposition, there's this assumed status of people. There's this assume, like we assume that our appetite signals are not to be trusted. Yeah. We assume that if a person just eats when they're hungry, they're all going to end up obese. That's not true. That's only true when you feed yourself food that has been engineered to make you overeat. Then you. Then if you listen to your systems of satiety or appetite, well, yeah, you are going to be obese. But when you eat whole natural foods, again, except for the extremes, here's what ends up happening. This is what I end up finding. Towards the end of my career when I would have guys, when I would coach guys in this way and they'd kind of start to follow this, they would eventually fall around 15, 16, 17% body fat. That's where they ended up. Everybody, everybody ended up here. We weren't trying to cut, we weren't trying to do anything. Just we all kind of fell in this body fat percentage. Everybody got stronger, everybody built muscle. My female clients, they would fall somewhere between 21 to 25, maybe 26% body weight. Everybody just kind of fell pretty healthy ranges in these healthy, lean, ish body fat percentages without really counting anything, really only paying attention to, I'm eating when I'm hungry, I'm eating protein centric and I'm sticking to whole natural foods. And what this looked like for someone who is really overweight is they would see fat loss. For somebody who needed to build muscle, we'd see a lot of muscle gain. For people who were kind of in this average range, we would see a nice trade of fat loss with muscle gain. But it was a stress, kind of stress free approach and they didn't go through the challenges that you'll often see with like structured cuts and structured bolts. Like I'll give another example. I was talking to my cousin recently. My cousin does jiu jitsu, also lifts weights. So he's active and his body fat came back at 18%. He's like, Dude, I want to get down to like 15, 16, so it's dropped like 3%, not a big deal. And he goes, you know, what should I do? How do I go on a cut? I said, well, there's two ways we could do this. I said, a, we could track your calories and put you in a deficit and then you'll drop that 3% body fat and it'll probably take us six weeks, something like that. Or you could do this. And I told him what I'm saying. I said, hey, eat your body weight and protein. Eat it first, stick to whole natural foods, eat when you're hungry, and that's it. Now you'll still drop body fat. It Won't happen as fast. However, in the structured cut, here's what you're going to notice. Here's some of the side effects. Your performance is going to drop in jiu jitsu and in your workouts because you're in this kind of bigger deficit. If you do what I'm saying, I don't think you're going to notice a drop in performance at all. And it'll take longer. You're not going to drop 3% body fat in six weeks. It might take more like 12 weeks or 18 weeks. But the whole time, you're going to feel good, and it's not going to feel like this structured thing. And the odds of rebound are way lower because you're not coming out of a cut, you know, type of deal.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, there's a. There's a. There's a bit of bias that we have that we have to factor in when we give advice like this. I think that it pertains to what Justin was saying about the education piece that I think is so important. I realize that the clients that I got, the back half of my career were much easier to deal with because they were all referrals. So when you came to me later on, it was like, tell me what to do. You already helped.

[Sal Destefano]

My.

[Adam Schaefer]

My friend Christine told me that you're the best at this. You're the. And so I could give advice like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, hey, or you actually gave better advice because of your experience.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So you distilled it down to the both crux.

[Adam Schaefer]

Both is true. Both is true. But nonetheless, it's biased because you get. You don't get the average client. You get a client who's coming to you with, I already trust and believe everything you're saying. Where I think the average person or average trainer, even if you're knowledgeable and you listen to this podcast and you give a lot of this advice, still has that challenge of, like, they have to educate the client still to get them to hop on that side.

[Sal Destefano]

I think the argument you're making, Adam, is maybe something like this, because I can see where you're going. It's like, I got to show someone movement right on the scale.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

Otherwise they're going to be like, this is taking too long. Right? Yeah, no, I get that.

[Adam Schaefer]

And. And they're. And they're also. We know how deceiving the mirror, all those things can be. And so you're telling them, like, just trust me. Trust this process. And we want to hover. And they're like, I don't look good. I don't feel like I'm getting any change.

[Justin Andrews]

And so they have hardwired expectations.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. So it's, it's, it tends to be a little bit easier to say, hey, we're going to go in a bulk. This is what to happen. This is what to expect. And it's like. And so it's easier to prep for that and then to show that you have that control and ab ability to manipulate their look, their weight, their strength, all these things, so that I then have the trust to go, okay, this is how we. This is the place we want to be. Where we. You talk about your clients, how they. But I mean, we're all biased because by the time we were at the, our, you know, whatever level you want to call us, when we were great trainers or good trainers that I bet each of us in here were out fishing for brand new people who didn't trust us. We got clients that were like bought into our philosophy.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, you're not wrong. But I'll add this because to what Justin was saying, my, the way I coached and trained people was different. I would steer away, you're right. From the scale and the mirror. And I started to point out all the improvements that they normally wouldn't have noticed because they're so hyper focused on the scale in the mirror.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So my clients, when they would come to me and we'd have these conversations and believe me, like any coach or

[Justin Andrews]

trainer, listen to their subconscious more.

[Sal Destefano]

They know this. Like if you're a trainer or coach, you know this. Okay. Or even if you're not in your. A person who hires a trainer, they would come to me and they'd say, no, I want to do this. I want you to tell me what to do, and I want to lose that, lose that, and so. Or gain this. And so it was a conversation. But then what I would do through my training is I show them. You just did two more reps. You're stronger here. How's your sleep? Oh, my God. I'm sleeping better. How's your energy? You know, I don't need that third coffee in the day. Hey, did you know, do you notice your back doesn't hurt when we do bent over rows like we tried five weeks ago and we couldn't do them. Now we're doing you notice your back doesn't hurt. And so they started to see all these other improvements which kept them going. And then eventually what would happen is they'd say things like, I'm getting leaner. What's Going on, like, this is weird. I don't feel like I'm trying really hard. And then I knew I had them, and then I knew, like, no, no, no, this is working. But it is a lot of conversations, and I totally get it. Like, almost nobody enters into a fitness program saying, what's your goal? I want to do this forever. Nobody says that. Everybody says, I want to specific. I want to build muscle, burn body fat. I want to change the way this looks or change the way that looks. But the real challenge is figuring out how to do this forever. And look, I'm going to say this right now. Our bodies are not broken, everybody. The problem is you're feeding your body food that was designed to make you overeat, and you live in a world that's designed to make you not move. It's not your body that's broken. It's this environment that we're in. If we just change the inputs a little bit, like, you could still eat and eat until you're satisfied. Just eat foods that your body knows when to say stop. It knows when to say eat more, because that's what will happen, too. I had many clients through this process that would get so scared because we'd start training, they'd listen to me and start eating whole natural foods. But we're strength training. And what they would do is they come to me and be like, my appetite is through the roof. Why am I so hungry, Sal? I don't want to keep eating this much. And I would tell them, no, no, eat when you're hungry, because we're building muscle right now. Your body's actually telling you that you need to eat more food. Listen to it, and it's really interesting. And I do think so many people are ruining their experience in the relationship with fitness because they're so hyper focused on macros, cutting, bulking. I got to do this. I got to do that thing that it becomes this really stressful, like, process to the point when other life stresses start to get high. It's just overwhelming. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm done. I'm going to stop. I just want to enjoy my life.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, interesting, because it is definitely like, an advantage to have a coach identifying those things and being able to forecast it and, you know, tell you're gonna run into this and, you know, to be able to kind of calm their own urges to, you know, to just fully cut or to fully bulk or, you know. So I think that, you know, it simplifies it so you can make an argument like the, the cut and bulk. Like, initially, it's like kind of the, the new trainer that's like the easy way to handle that situation. Instead of like really identifying a lot of those things that are going on in their process of cutting out the processed food and really sticking with whole natural foods, you have to kind of identify those things and really have them visualize it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, the truth is that I know for sure that each of you would handle this case by case, because there's clients that come to you in the first hour. They're communicating to you their goals, their challenges, their. Their previous history with diet and workout and with that and where you, where, how you guide them is completely dependent on that. Of course, you know, there's. There's a, There's a, There's a, There's a scenario. There's a scenario example for someone that you absolutely put on a cut or absolutely put on a bulk or absolutely tell them we're not going to do either, that we're like. And so the question becomes, you know, where do. And I think that's where my argument is right now, is that I think that most people aren't ready for kind of hovering around that. That place yet. I think they have to go through the education process of even knowing what, you know, 150 grams of protein looks like. Knowing what?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You still have to do that. Yeah, you still gotta, like, what is protein centric? Do I have an egg?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, it's probably more like 30. It's a 40 gram.

[Adam Schaefer]

And what does it look like when I actually intentionally try and eat in a surplus of calories? And what does that feel like when I do that? And what does it feel like when I decide to restrict a little bit? Like, I mean, that's the other thing too I've always had to communicate is like, there's this idea of, like, you know, being in a, in a cut, you won't feel hungry. Like, you.

[Sal Destefano]

Of course you're gonna feel hungry. Of course, if it's a specific. If it is a directed, structured cut. Right, right, right.

[Justin Andrews]

It's gonna be all right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so to me, there's. There's a bit of. There's a, There's a bit of an education process that goes through the, the teaching of cutting and bulk.

[Sal Destefano]

People that I'm talking to know who I'm talking to right now. I think people listening were like, oh, God.

[Adam Schaefer]

And, and I know. And I know who you're talking to,

[Justin Andrews]

like, over and over.

[Sal Destefano]

Right, right.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's there's people that are beyond that. They understand what their macros are. They know what maintenance probably is.

[Sal Destefano]

It could even be the beginner right now that's overwhelmed with all of it. And it's like, what do I. Okay, what do I do? How many calories? What do I. And it's like, oh, really? Just do that. Just eat whole natural foods, eat high protein meals. Eat it first. That's all I gotta do.

[Justin Andrews]

A big weight off their shoulders.

[Sal Destefano]

But to your point, Adam, I had. Look, I was on a coaching call with Will and one of his clients. Now, this woman had been impatient several times for anorexia, and she had just gotten released, and she wanted to hire a coach, and so she hired one of our coaches. My advice to her was not listen to your appetite signals, because if she listens to her appetite signals, she's not going to eat because it's off. So my advice to her was, this is gonna feel uncomfortable. You're gonna eat well beyond what you think is enough, because your idea of enough is so off that you have to relearn what that feels like.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I guess that's what I. Where I'm coming from too, is I have that in the back of my mind right now. Cause I know that Katrina is booking a call for me to hop on with Corinne and one of her clients, and I know that her client struggles with eating enough.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I know that if I tell

[Sal Destefano]

her to listen to her body, if

[Adam Schaefer]

I tell her to listen to her body, she's gonna be like, oh, I'm stuffed. All like, yeah, your. Your signal is. Is off. And you need to be in a. In a bulk. And we need to. To understand that there's going to be a bit of this uncomfortable feeling. And we'll, you know. So. Yeah. And I guess again, back to the point that this is what makes personal training so special and so unique, right? Is that there's there's some general case, there's some general rules, there's some. Some principles that, you know, over decades of training, so many people that we've really distilled down to some, like, core values of, like, eat whole foods, hit your protein. That's going to work for, like, 90% of the people, for, like, 90% of THE WAY.

[Sal Destefano]

But you always get those wrenches.

[Adam Schaefer]

But exactly. There's always going to. That. That it's not. It's not like a blanket statement of, like, just do that. It's like, there's going to be these people that. That come to you that, oh, no, this is somebody who I need to put in.

[Sal Destefano]

You should hear my cousin's feedback too, because he's doing this right now. So he's trying to eat 200 grams of protein a day, stick to whole natural foods, and remember, his goal is to drop about 3% body fat.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but he's stuffed.

[Sal Destefano]

He's like, he's like, I can't eat my protein. Protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, he's stuffed.

[Sal Destefano]

He's like, I can't do it. I'm like, well, you're gonna be in a natural cunt.

[Justin Andrews]

There you go.

[Sal Destefano]

That's what you wanted.

[Justin Andrews]

It limits you.

[Sal Destefano]

I said, do you feel like you're dieting right now? He's like, no. I said, that's exactly, that's exactly the point. But yeah, I think the people who know, people who should hear this know because they're hearing this right now and they're going, oh, yeah, this is overwhelming. This is stressful. I don't live like this anymore. And again, the premise that the average person, just humans in general, have this appetite, that if we let it run wild, we're gonna go crazy. That's not true with natural food. It's just not. It's only true with food with drug like effects that have been engineered to be that way. That's why we overeat for the most part.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, this is why I was such a fan of Whole30 when it was created. It was such a good.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, talk about there's not a lot of, a lot of diets or modalities that I think I get way behind and be like, oh, that's really, like, most people would be very well served to spend 30 days of, like. Because it's hard. Let's be honest. It's very hard. It's hard. Especially for the average American.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, you're radically changing how you eat.

[Adam Schaefer]

Suddenly just a lot of people eat out and eat a lot of processed foods. And so it does take some serious planning to plan A month of I'm only gonna eat whole.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what's another part of that too? We actually talked about this. I don't know if this was with a caller. I think it was with a caller recently. But I had this realization that we've taken meal preparation, which used to be this communal. It used to be a great way to spend time with people. And it turned into like a job I gotta do real quick. And I'm just gonna say this, like straight up, like husbands and wives. You guys are Looking for time to spend together while you do something and have time to meal prep together, cook together.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a hack, for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

It's some of my favorite time that I ever spend with my wife is when her and I are cooking together. It's like a great way to connect and we're gonna do it anyway, but why don't we turn it into this? Like, by the way, if you have kids, include your kids. My wife is great at this. She'll send me pictures. And I have little kids. I got a three year old and a five year old, so there's not much they could do. But what they can do is like peel things, throw things in the blender. And so she'll involve them, she'll put them at stations and they'll do this. And she turns cooking meals into this wonderful experience for the family. And I think that's such a hack because now you've not just. You have the value of meal prepping, you don't just have the value of eating whole natural foods that are healthy, but now you've added the value of connection and this kind of community effect, which just makes it so much now. It's something I look forward to.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, we're trying to. We're in the process. We're on day three or third day. We're getting there. We're teaching Max how to make me coffee in the morning.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

French press.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have all the right

[Sal Destefano]

tools with the hot water and everything.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I want it to be a little risky. Right. So I want to say. Yeah, yeah. It has to be a little like, that's.

[Sal Destefano]

He's.

[Adam Schaefer]

We got this again. His school. So cool. His school sends him home with this kind of thing for parents. And it's like their age breakdown from, you know, 1 to 3, I think 3 to 5, 5 to 7, 7 to 9. The different things they should be capable to do.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that's great.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so it's just a real. I mean, Katrina and I got that just recently, like, oh, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

We're.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's some things in here that we're not making them do, we're not in court doing more of. And so we're. We're trying to incorporate that. And one of them was like, you know, making. Making breakfast or doing things like that for himself. And I was like, you know what? He's in this like, money earning phase right now too. So I'm gonna like, pay him a dollar for every Time. He makes coffee, of course. And so, yeah, so I'm trying to teach him how to. How to make coffee right now, but he's already connected that cleaning the toilets is $10 and doing coffee is a dollar. And so he's, like, trying to get me to pay more for this.

[Sal Destefano]

Tell them they're both connected. You make dad coffee, you'll get to clean.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's trying to get me to pay more for coffee. I'm like, I'm not paying you. Starbucks is already overpriced at $3. I'm definitely not paying you 10 do dollars for a cup of coffee. They're going backwards.

[Sal Destefano]

So. But, dude, that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, it's funny watching. Watching him try and do it right now. So we'll see. We'll see if it backfires on me or if it works out, but that's. That's my goal.

[Sal Destefano]

I want to ask you guys. Adam, you're the one. You've been using the tro. Scriptions. Calm and sleep.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm a. I'm a believer, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

They nailed.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Whatever the formulations are. Can you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the most like. Like, I could feel it.

[Adam Schaefer]

What am I feeling? Okay, I want to know what I'm feeling. I can feel the calm, which is impressive. There's sleep, obviously, sleep. Things like melatonin and stuff like that. Really most.

[Sal Destefano]

There's a form of gaba. Is that what it is in the calm? That crosses the blood brain barrier. So traditional gaba, which is a neuro inhibitory compound, so it basically calms the brain. If you take traditional GABA and you feel it. Scott actually made a point of this. He said it's because you have a leaky gut.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

It's not supposed to. You're not supposed to feel. It's too big of a molecule. But they have a form of GABA in there that crosses the blood brain barrier. So when you take it, you feel.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, so explain this to me, because I've always been a fan of Ned's product, right.

[Sal Destefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I feel this more than I feel that. Why?

[Sal Destefano]

You have a magnesium. You probably need magnesium.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

But this is not filling nutrient deficiencies. These are compounds that actually have, like, physiological effects. So it's not just feeling a nutrient deficiency. It's like, this has an effect.

[Adam Schaefer]

So Ned didn't have GABA then?

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's why. Oh, so that's. So it's the GABA that I'm probably. Because I couldn't wrap my brain around.

[Sal Destefano]

Why there's a Garen in there. And then this sleep one, I believe has the Gaba. Doug, if I'm not mistaken. Pull that one up. So there's compounds.

[Adam Schaefer]

He was on this. Oh, he's on the.

[Doug]

No, I was on the calm.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're on the call.

[Doug]

Oh, I was on the.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, go on. Trope plus calm.

[Doug]

That's the one I was on.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Okay.

[Doug]

All right, let me go find the sleep here.

[Sal Destefano]

No, and then there's the duo right there. That's it. No, Gaba, Mike. Duo. That's the one. Yeah. See, that's the combo right there. Yeah, you put those together. And so I take.

[Adam Schaefer]

I take the calm about an hour first. So I.

[Sal Destefano]

And then right before bed.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then right before bed, I take the other one.

[Sal Destefano]

And then. Justin, have you been doing the. The methyl and blue?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, I have. Consistently.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's helped a lot with my energy. Usually when I drive home, like, I seriously have been having this issue where I'm like. I bonk so hard.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm like.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm, like, dozing off and I'm driving. I'm waking myself up.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm playing loud music.

[Justin Andrews]

But, yeah, there's just moments a lot more times during the day where I've just, like, crashed that it's just. It's been consistently good.

[Adam Schaefer]

So he recommended to me that I take the. The methylene blue in the morning early, and as part of my sleep routine. What is it about that? That how. Because that's the one.

[Sal Destefano]

Mitochondrial efficiency. And so it's supposed to help with just better mitochondrial health, but if you take it too late, it's a bit energizing. So if you take it at night, then it might interfere with sleep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, because that's the one.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. I've been really good about the calm and sleep consistent. I haven't been as consistent with the. The methylene.

[Sal Destefano]

And then there's cordycepin in there, which is an interesting compound from cordyceps, which has got an effect on increasing REM sleep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, this is part of. This is part of what's in the sleep.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Cordycepin, the cb.

[Justin Andrews]

Next.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it has five milligrams of melatonin.

[Sal Destefano]

When the blue pee is funny, though,

[Justin Andrews]

I got used to it, man. It's so funny because, I mean, I have a weird story. I don't feel like I'll go outside, like, pee on the tree, you know, And I forgot that I was, like, you know, taking methylene blue a lot. My son saw.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, no. What he said he's like what?

[Justin Andrews]

He was all confused.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude, why is your pee blue? He's too young to scare. He could have made up a total bat.

[Justin Andrews]

I could know.

[Sal Destefano]

What does that mean, son?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I could have made up a story or something.

[Sal Destefano]

You should probably be a really good boy. I don't know if I'm gonna be around.

[Justin Andrews]

I just was. It threw me off because I was like, what? It just became normal now?

[Sal Destefano]

That's hilarious. That's so funny. Dude, I got. Oh, speaking of supplements, did you guys see the post that. I'm gonna pull it up that Mike Matthews did on the study that they did on supplements? Oh, dude, watch this. I'm gonna pull this up. So there was a 20, 25 study that tested 200 popular sports supplements and they tested them for banned substances. Okay, banned substances.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so this is like anabolics and 200 supplements.

[Sal Destefano]

1/3 of them contained banned drugs. One third? Third of them.

[Adam Schaefer]

What was in the category of these sports supplements?

[Sal Destefano]

What, like, like athletic performance, strength, you know, muscle building, nootropic, pre workout, whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

Who was it? Jon Jones or. I remember some fighters making this claim.

[Sal Destefano]

It's real.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm like, is that true? You know, because they were saying it was like spiked, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

They found. Here's what they found. Okay, now this is a lot, bro. That's one third. Okay, that's a lot. That's a big old chunk. No wonder the. The FDA is trying to regulate supplements. These supplement companies, so stupid, they're going to bring it on themselves. Here's what they found in some of them. One of them, they found a sarm, which, like, that's not even a. That's not even an approved drug. Yeah, okay. A sarm. There were banned stimulants, there were amphetamine, like drugs, ADHD medications and cardiac drugs.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow. Yeah, yeah, that's just. That just goes to show. Well, you know, this creatine segment's working well. I mean, that just goes to show you they know the power of just a supplement that people feel. Yes, right.

[Justin Andrews]

If you want you to feel something,

[Adam Schaefer]

so you feel something from it.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you guys seen this study? I don't know if I ever showed you guys this where they, the, you know, I don't know what you call them, the boner pills category. Right? Like sex supplements or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did a whole bunch of them. They tested a whole bunch of them.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And a, like a significant percentage of them had Viagra.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Sal Destefano]

Like Viagra actually put the drug in there. Yeah, like this Works well, that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, that's what they used to do with the old fake steroid stuff, right? They used to put, like real, like testosterone and real stuff inside it to make people. They used to do things that would.

[Sal Destefano]

They didn't have to back in the day. They were legal. Did you guys know, by the way, did you guys ever take Super Draw in the early 2000s? Do you guys remember that one?

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know if I took Super Draw. I took the one that. What was the one that. The one I did take was the one that Mark McGuire got in trouble for.

[Sal Destefano]

Andrew Standard.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's nothing. Actually.

[Justin Andrews]

I tried that and I did.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I did the, The. I did the trend one that ended up getting knocked off the counter also. So I've done. I did a few of the designers

[Sal Destefano]

I remember, in the early 2000s, okay, Super Draw design. What they call it Pro Hormone. It's not a hormone. It's a pro hormone. It's before hormones. It turns into a hormone. So they kind of like sold it that way. It was called Super Draw. And I'll never forget. I took it and I was like, wow. Like, I. I got like, no joke. I probably added 30 pounds to my bench press in like two weeks.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's all.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what Super. Do you know what? You know who uses Super Draw now?

[Justin Andrews]

Huh?

[Sal Destefano]

Power lifters and bodybuilders. They say it's stronger than Anadrol, which is one of those classic steroids. What? Yeah, dude, it's a. It's a real story.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I remember that it's a designer steroid that, that. I forgot the brand of that, that trend. The trend over the counter was. But I remember it was so strong that I took two bottles back to back, and I had side effects. I. I started to get gynecomastia from it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

From a supplement. I was like, this is crazy. So, you know, I had something, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

Super Draw is now a black market steroid, dude. I bought that at the store. At the supplement store, dude. I'm like, this is my favorite supplement. Well, yeah, bro. You're taking steroids.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the supplement industry for you, ladies and gentlemen. You got to be very, very careful.

[Justin Andrews]

Gotta do your own research.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, here's some good news on supplements. And Doug's been using the supplement for a while. Nattokinase. Am I saying that right, Doug?

[Doug]

Nattokinase.

[Sal Destefano]

You gotta say it in a Japanese way, don't you?

[Doug]

Yeah, well, the natto party.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Where did you get this.

[Doug]

Well, I've heard about it for a long time.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's so undercover about everything.

[Doug]

No, I. I share these things. I'm not secretive.

[Sal Destefano]

Come on.

[Doug]

You know, it's just hard to get

[Sal Destefano]

a word in edgewise. You always def. I.

[Adam Schaefer]

Get out of here with that. We've been together for over 10 years. Yeah, I can't get worded edgewise. Forgot to tell you guys about that tax break you guys could have had. Ah, come on.

[Sal Destefano]

We met it. We met the girl he's dating, like, three years after they were dating. Hey, I am a little secretive.

[Justin Andrews]

What can I say?

[Sal Destefano]

He's like, what are you talking about?

[Doug]

So anyway, I'd heard. First heard about nattokinase because of, you know, like, supporting spiked protein removal.

[Sal Destefano]

Removal. Yeah. So this was a big study, Doug, this is crazy. They took a thousand. Over a thousand Covid shots.

[Justin Andrews]

Spike.

[Doug]

Yes, in Covid.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Spike protein.

[Sal Destefano]

So it's part of that protocol that one doctor said that you could use to get rid of spike proteins? Yes, but that's not what the study shows. So this is on arterial plaque and heart health. They had over a thousand people take nattokinase for a year. I hope I said that right.

[Doug]

I liked years.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude, this is wild. Every person had an ultrasound at the start and another at 12 months. The people who were taking 10,800. I don't know, FU stands for Per day. It's not what you think, Justin. It's a. It's a. It's a measurement. Doug, look that up for me. I'm. I'm surprised. I'm embarrassed. I don't know what that is. Here's what they found. At that dose, carotid artery plaque shrank up to 36%.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

36%. Arterial wall thickness decreased by 21% on average.

[Adam Schaefer]

Big numbers.

[Sal Destefano]

77% of the people showed measurable improvements in arterial wall thickness. 66% showed measurable reduction in plaque size. Improvement rates across all markers range from 66 to 95% for the majority of all thousands.

[Adam Schaefer]

What rivals that Sal.

[Sal Destefano]

They saw total cholesterol went down. LDL went down. Triglycerol went down. HDL went up. This is like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do we even have a pharmaceutical drug that can.

[Sal Destefano]

That has, like, this is either as good or better?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Do we. What would compare to that?

[Sal Destefano]

There's a lot of things you could take to help with.

[Adam Schaefer]

On the pharmaceutical side.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, but they all have side effects. There were no adverse effects recorded at all.

[Adam Schaefer]

Interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. It's crazy. Now they co Administered it with vitamin K2 and low dose aspirin, but. But that's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Vibrant fibrinolytic units.

[Sal Destefano]

Fibrinolytic units. I didn't know what the heck that was.

[Adam Schaefer]

Measures the potency and enzymatic activity.

[Sal Destefano]

So it breaks down fibrin, a protein involved in blood clotting. Dude, this is like.

[Adam Schaefer]

It sounds like something that everybody should kind of take. Why would you not.

[Justin Andrews]

Prophylactic.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Pro for heart health. This is remarkable supplement. It's really, really good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Of course, Doug doesn't show. And this was this guy, he's like,

[Justin Andrews]

I'm trying to live long after one

[Adam Schaefer]

of us has a heart attack, then he lets. Well, you should have been taking that dou. D. Whatever after we did the.

[Doug]

I'm gonna tell you everything now.

[Sal Destefano]

Everything.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but isn't that.

[Sal Destefano]

Isn't that remarkable? That's like a huge measurable effect on just like a cheap.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now we don't have any sort of partnership or sponsorship or anything. Who does? The.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, cabal has.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah. Equal life. They have a.

[Adam Schaefer]

They do.

[Doug]

In fact, one of his emails was highlighting the fact that this, you know, can address plaque buildup. And I responded to it and bought some.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Doug]

I didn't tell you. I'm sorry.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I started taking it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, you take it too?

[Sal Destefano]

I just started taking it. Like. Yeah. I take so much.

[Doug]

You gotta listen to. You gotta listen to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm less.

[Sal Destefano]

I gotta slow.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. It could take him an hour and a half just to get through all the stuff that he takes with you. So I don't even want to hear everything he's taking.

[Sal Destefano]

I've been taking it for probably two months or three months or so. This was. I remember we did our. Our full body scan.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But they did. But it didn't look at artery health. Right. It looked for like pre. Cancerous stuff. And I still have yet to schedule. I'm actually going to go see a doctor soon because I want to schedule one of those ultrasounds where they look at your, you know, all your arteries to see if you have any. Any build, just as a precaution. I actually have a. I have a family member who at my age had a heart attack not that long ago, which is kind of wild.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And I just found another friend of mine at my age had cardiac arrest. So I think we're getting the age now. We start to hear these weird things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So, you know, usually supplements I would take in the past were related to muscle building or performance. Now I'm more interested in kind of longevity stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So for. For the past few months I've been taking. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you guys seen. I haven't watched SNL in a really long time, but there was like a clip and I was watching it and it was interesting because so they were trying to kind of dig at RFK and like a lot of the health movement that he's making and kind of attacking Big Pharma and all that. And so there's this one sketch which is. I mean, it was reasonably amusing, but it was like, they're taking this guy through like the ER and like, quick, give me a steak. And they give him a steak, inject

[Sal Destefano]

them with methyl and blue and, you

[Justin Andrews]

know, and they're going through all these, like, things like, we bring up as like, you know, like preventative, like.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Supplements. And they're just like throwing all that at them and like, totally, like putting a dig in at, you know, this space. And I'm sure it's like a dig at Joe Rogan and like, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

But it's.

[Justin Andrews]

It was interesting for me to see like, that other side of the culture that's like, still in a course. Like, we're not out here, like, promoting for interventions like on the. You know, Western medicine is amazing for, you know, to save your life trauma and like. Yeah, it's like, it's silly and stupid. I know it's a joke, but it's. It's just kind of funny because that, that puts it like that thought in, you know, other people that like, have these preconceptions that like, oh, this is all bullshit. You know, it's like, does even fit in that category?

[Sal Destefano]

No, it's not the same. Yeah, I have a news article. I'm going to read it just because. Not because. It's because I think we should talk about the news article, but I just want to see if I can read it without you guys laughing. Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So impossible.

[Sal Destefano]

This is. That. This is a. It's real. This is a real news article. It's the most amusing title I've ever read in my entire life. So this is ABC News Chicago. Quadruple amputee cornhole champion facing murder charges in fatal shooting.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not real.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it is, dude. Yeah, it is. James is accused of fatally shooting the front seat passengers of vehicle during an argument in La Plata, Maryland. So he's the quadruple amputee cornhole champion.

[Justin Andrews]

We quadruple.

[Sal Destefano]

He's got no arms or no legs.

[Justin Andrews]

How did he shoot him?

[Sal Destefano]

He's got like. I think he's got. It shows pictures. Got arms, like, to his elbows.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

And. And yeah, dude. And so he's a champion at cornhole. And then he shot someone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

He's in trial. Yeah, there's so. I have so many. I told you, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

Professional corner. This is real.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

That's.

[Justin Andrews]

That's like. You, like, put a bunch of things.

[Sal Destefano]

I have a lot of questions, like, shake it up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Throwing cornhole.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude. See what. Yeah. How did he shoot someone, though? Like, there's. He doesn't.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, if you become a professional. Cornhole.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, this is.

[Adam Schaefer]

A missing gun is easier.

[Sal Destefano]

Damn, dude. Maybe that's how the argument started.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Won that last match. Like. Yeah, you can. I can shoot, you know, you can't.

[Adam Schaefer]

What?

[Sal Destefano]

Blam.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah,

[Sal Destefano]

I know we're laughing. It's terrible, but yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Maryland, Maryland, you said?

[Justin Andrews]

That's absurd.

[Adam Schaefer]

You have to be so careful with the AI stuff. Dude. Now I know, dude. I had to know multiple times I've sent things now where I'm like, man, I can't say anything anymore without, like, it's so lame that I have to

[Justin Andrews]

go do Fox News is real, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, dude. That's what this. So this was the. The lit. Did you see the viral video of the lady acting like she was a dog in front of the grocery store?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, and the dog attacked her.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. You know, that was AI. Okay, so that was fake.

[Sal Destefano]

I knew it.

[Adam Schaefer]

But it went viral like crazy. And so many people comment on sharing it and thinking it was real.

[Sal Destefano]

And then I'm just laughing because I could just imagine if that really happened.

[Adam Schaefer]

It looked. It looked really real, that it was plausible. And so, I mean, but that's how it gets you, right? It's like, it's something that's plausible like that. And then it. And it does a good job. It's like, man, there's so much of this is going to be going on where people you're just. Will we. Do you think. Do you think you stop sending stuff to your buddies?

[Sal Destefano]

You know what AI is doing? AI is detecting AI. I see that on X. So something will get posted and then someone will underneath it say, hey, Grok, is this real? And then Grok will say, there's an 87% chance or whatever this is AI.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, there needs to be that. I feel like within the next iterations of these, like, social media platforms, if they could have those options, you could scan it first. Before you share it. Because people will just.

[Adam Schaefer]

It is kind of cool, though, how it organically. We kind of self police it, though.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, like, what?

[Sal Destefano]

You have to check the comments.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, you check the comments a lot of times. You'll see. And that's my. My telltale to go do a little digging is if I see a hand, if I see more than one person going, oh, this is AI.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, oh. I go, oh, wow, maybe this is. And then I'll read.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a picture that keeps a weird spot with that.

[Sal Destefano]

There's a series of photos that people keep saying are real, but I can't believe that they're real. From the Epstein. Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

With Stephen Hawking. Dude, it's in a dress, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

It's Bill Clinton.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you look it up to see if it was real or not?

[Justin Andrews]

One of them.

[Sal Destefano]

People are saying it's real.

[Justin Andrews]

One of them said, yeah, they screened it through a lot of the AI detection and it was.

[Sal Destefano]

Said it was passed. Yeah. And he's like. He's like, bro, bro. Did you see him?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so Stephen Hawkins is like, you know, but then he dressed like a little doll.

[Justin Andrews]

There's other ones where the AI can see. This is what they do, though. It's like information, then disinformation.

[Sal Destefano]

Look at that dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

So. So that.

[Justin Andrews]

That one is claimed as real, but there was another one recently where they had, like, Epstein, Bill Clinton.

[Sal Destefano]

So disturbing.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know if it was Bill Gates or not, but they were all like, you know, hanging out with him, like, on the ground.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're like. And so I feel like they're gonna add AI versions of, like, real pictures just to kind of convolute it.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah. Every. So is that saying it's real, dog. Did it say.

[Doug]

I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, you had it.

[Sal Destefano]

You had it.

[Doug]

I don't know what happened.

[Sal Destefano]

Recent unseen. Look at that.

[Doug]

Yeah, they just disappeared off my eyes.

[Sal Destefano]

Erasing it. I hate the Internet. Recent unsealed documents from the Jeffrey Epstein investigation result in the release of various photographs, including authentic images of Bill Clinton and Stephen Hawking, as well as several AI generated fabrications.

[Justin Andrews]

You see?

[Adam Schaefer]

So just adjust.

[Sal Destefano]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay, so that one's real.

[Justin Andrews]

They try to discredit it by adding all this extra AI image.

[Sal Destefano]

No, see, they're not the ones where he's dressed like a doll.

[Doug]

Oh, the princess outfit they're saying is AI generated.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Thank God. It's so disturbing, dude. It's just weird.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, It's. But then again, that's the least disturbing out of anything with that.

[Adam Schaefer]

I wanted you down the rabbit hole. What we talked about when we walked through the day, the. The thing that I never heard of until just recently, the. The neurological thing. I was telling you about, the affidavit, Aphantasia, I think. Am I saying that right? I think it's.

[Justin Andrews]

I finally remember the term.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I think. Yeah, it's called. I think it's called aphantasia or aph.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like apa. Like, there it is right there. A P, H A N. Oh, that sounded.

[Sal Destefano]

Is the inability to voluntarily create mental images in the mind's eye, often described as a blank screen when attempting to visualize scenes, objects, or faces. It's a form of neurodiversity which occurs in 2 to 4% of people. So. So 2 to 4% of people, if you tell them, hey, can you picture a car in your mind?

[Justin Andrews]

They can't.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well. And.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

At all.

[Justin Andrews]

At all.

[Adam Schaefer]

But there's actually a sliding scale. So that 2 to 4% is at all.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

But a lot of people are somewhere on the spectrum of that. Like. So it's like. And there. There's. I don't know if Doug looks up, like the graph, but the graph looks like at all is what, 2 to 4%. And then a lot of people will fall into.

[Justin Andrews]

Does that also mean that they can't. If you ask them to. A piece of paper to draw it out, like, they know it says they can. They can draw it, but they can't see it in their mind?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, they can. They can still. Yeah. That's weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. There's. There's the scale right there. See? Not at all. Then there's a two, then there's a three, then there's four. I was trying to figure out where I fell on that spectrum because I can see the red apple, but I can't see it to, like, the five. Or, like, the one example.

[Sal Destefano]

I can picture it. Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, really.

[Sal Destefano]

Like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like the five is, like, deep. Like the shimmer off the apple.

[Sal Destefano]

And. No, I'm probably in the middle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that detail.

[Sal Destefano]

So it says it's a form of neurodiversity. So. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I have a neurodivergent mind, which. Which has been labeled adhd, but I don't think I really fit neatly in that category.

[Justin Andrews]

Weird.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Thanks, dude. Just offended.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, your. Your ability to recall words is really fascinating. That's why I was really curious to bring it up to you. Because I was sharing, when my buddy and I, who were talking about this, this, I was like, oh, I can't wait to bring this up to Sal, because he. And I was explaining to him that, you know, the three of us can all read a study, the same exact study, for the very first time together. And you asked me to recall it, and I'll mess it up all over the place. Like, I won't be able to recall it exactly. And. And I'll need to have read it five to 10 times, messed it up four or five times, repeating it, and then finally it becomes like, I can explain it where you can do that. And then almost verbatim, it's almost like

[Justin Andrews]

I need a story behind it for it to capture for me.

[Sal Destefano]

Right, right.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've got to connect it to things. I got to apply it. I've got to teach it a few times. Yeah. Then. Now I'm starting to get where I feel. You can look at a study, read it, and then ten minutes later.

[Sal Destefano]

So. I didn't know that was weird. My family. No, my family would say I was like that, too.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, she can do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Very. Photographic memory.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So people. When I was a kid, my family called me. Like, they'd say I was a walking encyclopedia. I didn't know that was weird. But what I do know is weird is that I have such a terrible sense of direction that it's so frustrating. I can. I get so disoriented so easily. And I had a client once that worked in the. In that field, and I started explaining to her how bad my sense of direction was to the point where I was. Like, I said, you don't understand. I've driven to this place 500 times. I will have to use navigation every time. I won't know how to get there. And if I go and park in a. In a parking lot and I walk in 10ft, turn back around, come, I'll forget. I won't know where I am or what's going on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And she told me that that was a type of neurodivergence, actually a type of dyslexia. She said, yeah, it's just with.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, no, I've seen it in you before. I've teased you before. We've left our. Our house that we. We've owned for, like, eight years.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, do I go left or right?

[Justin Andrews]

You can go either way.

[Sal Destefano]

But crazy kid, you don't know

[Adam Schaefer]

this is your house.

[Sal Destefano]

Really bad.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, yeah, I'm bad, too. I attribute mine, though, because I I used to think I. I had that skill really well when I was younger.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I'll tell you right now, I can't get home from here. You guys know that, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

You can't get home?

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

I could probably concentrate.

[Sal Destefano]

I could probably figure it out, but it would be a really long way because there's a few places I know where to go. Yeah. But the way that I always go home, I use navigation. If you told me right now if, like, the power went out right now, that's my biggest fear.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

That we lose power.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I won't be able to go home to be with my family. Poor kids and wife will be like, ah, the power's out and I'll be stuck.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, there's a. So when I.

[Sal Destefano]

10 minutes away.

[Adam Schaefer]

When I go the back way. Right. Right now I'm driving the back way a lot. It's not that much different. It's maybe like 10 minutes back, like kind of country road where Doug is at. And I. I actually have. So I. I still put it on, but I. I try. I'm trying to train myself to not to know all the back turns. And it is. It's like. It's like a muscle. You have to train too, because I. I know I used to be really good at that, but I've become so dependent like you where I just put it in.

[Sal Destefano]

So mine isn't. Didn't develop after navigation. We. We. We drove long enough without navigation. They didn't exist.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

We were kids.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I would get lost.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you.

[Sal Destefano]

You.

[Adam Schaefer]

You recall that even further. Okay. Yeah. See, I. I recall bragging about how good I was. Oh, one time I go somewhere, I got it.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, like, I was actually terrified of getting. Because I would get lost so often. I used to hate it. I used to hate it, hate it, hate it. If I miss a turn. Oh, God, here I go. I'm lost. Now I'm stuck. I'd have to ask for direct, figure things out. When navigation first came out, it was like. It was like a gift from God, man. It was like, oh, God, think finally I can go places. Whereas before I was totally, totally screwed. Couldn't get the mall from my house to go from where I grew up to go to the mall is 1, 2, 3 turns. Couldn't get there. Couldn't get there. It's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

That is funny.

[Sal Destefano]

Anyway, I want to talk to you guys about the green juice. I had message from someone who said it really helped with their anxiety.

[Adam Schaefer]

What?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So it's the Ashwagandha Ashwagandha. Yeah, it's got to be ashwagandha. They were saying that they had anxiety, kind of on and off kind of physical symptoms, anxiety. And they started using the green juice for health because they heard us talk about organifi's green juice, and it. It went away, and they started connecting the dots and said, oh, my God. It's like one of the best things I've tried for. For feeling anxious.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want to know how. How organifi makes ashwagandha taste.

[Sal Destefano]

Good. Good. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have you ever had straight ashwagandha?

[Sal Destefano]

Do you know what ashwagandha means? I think ashwagandha maybe look this up. I think it means horse piss. If I'm not mistaken, it tastes probably like that. Yeah, I think this ashwagandha looked that up. Is that really horse tail or something like that?

[Adam Schaefer]

Horse tail sounds right.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Obviously you guys have had.

[Sal Destefano]

Doug, what does ashwagandha mean? I don't know why you don't have to use Google anymore. He Googles in a strange, neurodivergent Google, like a boomer. This video Google, smell of horse. Smell of horse. This is what Doug will Google ashwagandha info. And then you have to, like, go through.

[Doug]

I. I was typing in the origin of the ashwagandha name, but. Yeah, what does ashwagandha mean?

[Adam Schaefer]

Is easier. Okay. Poor Doug.

[Doug]

I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Poor Doug.

[Sal Destefano]

I can't wait for at least hanging out.

[Doug]

And you wonder why I don't share.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is why. He hoards all the secrets right here.

[Sal Destefano]

He's resentful.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, he's resentful.

[Sal Destefano]

He takes longevity supplements. Screw.

[Adam Schaefer]

Those guys live so much longer, those guys. I'm gonna save all this money.

[Sal Destefano]

He's gonna get back on back at us when we need him. Doug, can you hand me my.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why don't you Google it?

[Sal Destefano]

Why don't you. Why don't you Google it, Sal, that's wrong. I can't Google it. Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Why you so mad, Doug?

[Adam Schaefer]

You. You are the. You are the Google master, though, at everybody. You Google the fastest.

[Sal Destefano]

But AI requires a whole different way of Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

The prompt.

[Sal Destefano]

Different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. You definitely have to prompt different with. With AI.

[Sal Destefano]

I got to figure that out. I don't use AI the way you're supposed to. I just use it like a. Yeah, like Google. I know.

[Justin Andrews]

It's. It's actually better than Google, though. I like it.

[Sal Destefano]

You really?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You.

[Adam Schaefer]

You prefer.

[Justin Andrews]

Like that.

[Sal Destefano]

You preferred.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, you. You like it better than Google?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, by far.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've trained myself to use that more because I, I still was like, you know, I would just use search engines for all that stuff. And it's like stupid.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you.

[Justin Andrews]

There's immediately give it to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's so many cool. We, we don't even use it. I mean we're that like we have the example right now. Like Katrina and I were talking to our car insurance company and you know, he's trying to convince us to is which is separate from my house and you get like a, a better deal.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you, you package the house with it and stuff like that. And Katrina's like, I don't want to do that because I'm so worried that what we originally negotiated there, there's coverage. I need to go through the contract do that. I'm like, dude, plug it, input it into AI and have AI compare it for yourself. So you got to read all of it. Like literally just go like, like give me the pros and cons of this one. Give me the pros and cons of this one. Compare the two of them and, and, and like it like the things that you can use it for. We still don't completely.

[Sal Destefano]

You have to imagine it's like a really smart person. That's how you talk to it. So you can be like, hey, I'm going to be flying into this place at this time. I have to be at this appointment at this time. I'd like to find things to do that are going to be fun in between. I'm with my 16 year old daughter. She's into this kind of stuff. What do you recommend? Yeah, it'll tell you and then the

[Adam Schaefer]

layers that you can go for that because then it kicks off and you go like, oh, we'll keep the budget between this price and this price and, and the driving distance, I mean you can just keep going.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you guys asked your AI yet if it knows, if it knows who you are? No, Ask it say who am I? What do I do? And what are the things that.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, and two, you will scores anything you've ever done.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, it'll tell you. It knows who you are. Yeah, it'll say. Adam Schaefer host, the MIND PUMP yeah, you have this, you have one child.

[Justin Andrews]

It picks up. Even I haven't used it in the months and it just picks up like we never stopped.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you should ask it because my new me and I don't talk about any of my whatever. Yeah, it's like, oh, you're selling stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I know that that we were just, I was telling my buddies this, how good the, the TV listening and phone listening stuff is.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh man.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's on another.

[Justin Andrews]

It's so creepy.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's on another level now. That. And it's. We were talking about this. My buddy's reading like the Snowden book and he was, he was talking about this while we were hanging out this last weekend. And he's like, he's like, he. That was part of Snowden was talking about that stuff a long time ago. Right. And so we've all kind of known it's been happening for a really long time time. But the level of sophistication that it's at now is, is crazy. It'll be. There'll be something super obscure like that I've either never talked about or Katrina and I haven't had a, had a conversation at least in the, the years that we've known each other about. And we'll have a conversation about and then like turn our TV on and it's like recommending a documentary related to it or so. And it's just like, dude, come on. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like this is not just random.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's so like way in left field or, or you pull up your computer screen and all of a sudden you're getting an advertisement for like. But like we're. He was using the example. He's like, dude, my wife and I were literally just talking about, oh, we need to take the kid. Their kids are getting older, we should take them camping. This and that. He goes, 15 minutes later I'm on my computer. I was just like, tents for sale. And this like all can't like lantern and all this. It's like, geez.

[Justin Andrews]

It reminds me of this comedian, the stand up comedian. I forget his name. He's. He's really funny. But he like. One of his bits was just like right in the middle. He's just like, I want to buy a humongous dildo. You know, he just keeps like repeating it over and over and over. He' like, you're welcome.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everybody's like, ah, now you're gonna go

[Sal Destefano]

home and have all these.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, hey, you're welcome. People listening.

[Adam Schaefer]

Funny.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's, it's. Did you know that the US government used which plant here? I think they use planer to hit the first thousand targets or something like that. Palantir. Sorry. In Iran. So they used the AI to find targets. And like it was so accurate. They're now outfitting everything with AI to be able to find targets. Maybe, maybe look that up, Doug. You know, government using Palantir for targets in Iran. I'll just tell you what, I'll just do it.

[Doug]

Yeah. Verbatim.

[Sal Destefano]

Doug puts in Palantir information.

[Adam Schaefer]

Doug does get taken shots today.

[Doug]

I feel like Iran right now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Sal Destefano]

Too much, dude. Based on reports in March 2026, US military utilizing artificial intelligence technology from Palantir, specifically its Marvin Smart system.

[Doug]

Maven.

[Sal Destefano]

Maven, sorry. To identify and prioritize targets in Iran. This technology often referred to as AI driven kill chain. That's not like the way that sounds. None of this sounds has been used to significantly speed up targeting process, allowing the military to process vast amounts of intelligence data to strike hundreds of targets in a short time. Wow. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Not unsettling at all. No, not at all.

[Doug]

And by the way, we have something releasing on Sunday.

[Sal Destefano]

Is it coming out Sunday?

[Doug]

This coming Sunday.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, boy, here we go. Mass ppl maybe one of the hottest programs yet.

[Sal Destefano]

Push, pull legs.

[Adam Schaefer]

Any bets? Let's take a bet on where it lands. Let's take a bet on.

[Sal Destefano]

In the context of just. Yeah, yeah. Comparing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Compare it to launches. We've done so many programs, I think we all predict it's going to do. It'll be a good one. Right. What do you think it will in comparison? Top three, Top five, Top ten. It'll break.

[Justin Andrews]

Top five.

[Adam Schaefer]

Top five, you say?

[Sal Destefano]

God, what's top three? Muscle mommy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Anabolic.

[Sal Destefano]

Anabolic then. And.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or aesthetic would be right there too. That would be in the top five, I'd say.

[Sal Destefano]

Top five. People have. Asking for a ppl split forever.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And this is the first time that we've done a. A maps ppl for men and for women. So the programming is a little different. So we programmed it differently for women based on what they're typically interested in, which is more lower body volume, more glute focus and. And more shoulder focus than. Let's say it'd be interesting to see

[Justin Andrews]

if women bought more than men, which.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, good.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. Like I bet you that's gonna be the case.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have a pretty split audience.

[Sal Destefano]

Split.

[Adam Schaefer]

So when I look at the analytics on buyers and maps programs, it's. It's. It's pretty.

[Sal Destefano]

You're gonna let the girls beat you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what I'm saying. Calling you guys out right now.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's. It's a really. It'll be really interesting to see if more men by the women or vice versa. But it's the first time we've done that. So you'll get you can buy one that's programmed for what men typically want to work on on and one for what women typically want to work on.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then probably the coolest thing that we're doing that is unique, we've only done it one other time is the, the coaching that's coming along with it. Right.

[Sal Destefano]

So yeah, three days of Cole.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So that's been really helpful.

[Adam Schaefer]

So Cole, Cole's launching that with it and it'll. So by the way, like it's within I think three days. So after the launch, I believe Wednesday,

[Justin Andrews]

it will be live, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

The coaching will be live with it. So as soon, as soon as you pick up the program, it's free, it's part of it. You'll be able to join that. If you can't make the times, there'll be a recording and you'll to access it. But if you want to be live on there and ask questions.

[Sal Destefano]

It's also the first time a program has come with specific dietary instruction. It's much more specific. Protein, calories and it's all organized for gaining.

[Adam Schaefer]

So let's go.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the dietary advice. You can eat. You can do the program on a cut.

[Justin Andrews]

Bulk season, baby.

[Sal Destefano]

But there is a bulk type program in there. Element is an electrolyte powder. You can add it to your water. There's no sugar, no artificial sweeteners, but it tastes good.

[Doug]

Good.

[Sal Destefano]

Here's the best part. 1,000 milligrams of sodium per serving. You need that. If you need electrolytes, you need the sodium. This is good for muscle cramps, energy, better pumps in the gym, better performance in the hot sun and of course it tastes delicious. By the way, they also have 12 ounce sparkling cans that come ready to go with the element already inside. Go check them out. Go to drinkelementtea.com mindpuff pump on that link you'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink. Mix flavors with any purchase. Back to the show.

[Doug]

Our first question is from Lindsey D2015. I am training to be a spin instructor and currently made it through my first round of auditions. I'm hoping to coach twice a week, but I'm currently cycling three times a week and running anabolic and I'm struggling with recovery. I'm 29 years old, mom of two. I've been weight training five days a week for eight years. What are some tips on structuring my week so I can do it all?

[Sal Destefano]

You can't.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you need to reduce that.

[Sal Destefano]

You can't do it all Cyclists so Spin is very intense. Very intense. Lots of stress on the body. Map's anabolic. Even if you do the two day a week version, you're now competing. Strong endurance signal from spin, which spin is intense. It's not like just a leisurely bike ride with maps on. But it's not going work to work. It's just not going to work. You might be able to get away with maps 15 or one day a week. Maps anabolic. And then feed your body.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And feed and no more stuff. That's it. Three days a week of spin, one day a week of strength training or three days a week of spin. Mass 15 and make sure you hit your protein targets or less spin and more anabolic. That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but she's trying to be a spin instructor, so I'm sure that's not, that's not gonna happen. So this is, I mean the, the, for this person who's going to be a spin instructor, your strength training routine is going to be one day a week or maybe maps 15. Right.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean that's most likely if you're going to be doing three or more days of teaching spin and doing span. You only really need one day of strength training or one day broken up over the hardest.

[Sal Destefano]

The, the people that I had working in my gym that had the toughest time building muscle were my spin instructors. Yeah. They all had it. And, and why? Because they would teach so many classes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Three, four classes a week. Five classes a week.

[Justin Andrews]

That's up that volume.

[Sal Destefano]

And if you've ever done a spin class, it's like, it's all hype, motivation, intensity. That's, that's what they're all about. It's, it's like go, push, whatever. Yep. And combining that with a bunch of strength trains, it's not going to work.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Next question is from Midwest. Sweetheart. Do I have a higher caloric need as a full time mom of a two year old or is stress just sabotaging my goals?

[Sal Destefano]

So if you're not getting your goals and your question is I'm not hitting my goals, is it because I need to eat more? Is it because you need to do less? I would need more information.

[Adam Schaefer]

I should say I need more info

[Sal Destefano]

to give you a good answer. I would need more information. But the fact that you're asking this question tells me that you probably do need to eat more and do a little less. So typically when I'm training or working with a full time mom who's coming to me and saying, man, I have a lot of stress. What do I need to do? Your strength training routine would look like Mass 15 and I'd make sure you hit your protein targets and then walk and no additional like crazy workout stuff. And you'll know it's working because you're getting stronger, you feel good.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean that's the best advice based off of the information we got that we're getting right now. Because obviously like if her goal was to lose weight then maybe it's and she's not hitting her goals. Maybe it has nothing to do with eating more calories, but it's. If you're having, if your goals are to build strength and build muscle and you're not, then most likely you need to be fed more or reduce the stress by like a Maps 15 program versus something that's higher volume and intensity. So I think the way you said it is the best we can with what we got.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Doug]

Next question is from justinjd99. What is your advice on a blue collar maps program? Maps 15 works great, but I wonder if a powerlifting slash slash performance mix would be a better approach to help day to day construction life.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, you're in luck.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have, we have 15 minute versions of that.

[Sal Destefano]

We have maps 15 performance. Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

If you know.

[Sal Destefano]

And maps 15 power lift maps, grade eight would be another good option for you. For people you know, blue collar workers are very active and so they rarely need more, you know, activity. But strength training is a good idea,

[Adam Schaefer]

believe it or not. This is not that much different than answering the question regarding the spin instructor that thinks they need to do more. Like you're already a very active person doing physical labor. You don't need to send a super loud signal to build muscle. And if you push it too much, you're more likely to get trapped in that kind of recovery state that Sal always talks about versus actually adapting and growing and building muscle. And so a Maps 15 protocol is probably the protocol I would keep this person in and then cycle through the different programs and we have a powerlifting one and a performance one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And you can even venture, venture to try like the, the symmetry 15 only because a lot of times there's overuse, you know, within some of these trades where you're getting a lot of activity just on one side and to kind of address that and balance that out with symmetry would be a good idea.

[Doug]

Next question is from Big rigs.

[Sal Destefano]

Jim Gal.

[Doug]

How do you stop the cycle of constantly starting and stopping if you're just bored with the workouts or one Day of skipping cascades into weeks or months.

[Sal Destefano]

Typically, this is because you're doing too much too soon, and that's why you're stopping. Also, I want to just encourage people, like, it's good to follow a structured program, especially if it's well programmed. But second place is just working out, so long as you're not doing things that are going to hurt you. So if you're like, I'm bored with today's workout. I'm looking at my. Today's workout out, and I'm bored. Okay. You can either not work out or just do something else.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Even if it's not ideal, you're doing something. Break it up. Yeah. Think to yourself, like, what would I enjoy doing? I'm at the gym. Or I'm gonna go to the gym today. I'm supposed to squat. I'm supposed to, you know, Romanian deadlift. I'm supposed to bench press, and I'm bored of doing that. What should I do? Go in there and do something you enjoy rather than skipping.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like what you said first, because I think this. This tends to be the more common thing with someone who says a statement like this where you're. You're kind of all. You're always. You're all. You're all in or you're all out type of deal is what typically happens. Like, you're motivated, and so you're training five days a week type of deal, and then you're not motivated, so you skip a day or miss it two days, and then that two days turns into weeks and you're off the wagon again. You're on and off, and a lot of times that's just a little bit over. Committing yourself to too much too soon. So instead of being on or off and. And on, looks like all these days working out, it's like you just become the person that. You know what, I'm. I'm gonna always make sure I squat every week at least one time, you know, for five sets or something like it. And like, to your point, it doesn't. Pick whatever you want. Pick a. Pick an exercise that you enjoy doing and become the person that always just does that thing, and then be consistent with that and then add another thing. And then add another thing. I think we tend to do this, like, because we're motivated right now. We do as much as we can. And that's unrealistic for you to keep that momentum and consistency. And so. So build something that is something you can be very consistent and then build on that, I think, is a better strategy than the all or nothing totally look.

[Sal Destefano]

If you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Adam Schaefer]

Awkward time to ask this, but hey, did you download the trail map?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, no, I don't need to.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I don't understand.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're trusting your signal out here?

[Sal Destefano]

I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network and if we end up in bum tots nowhere, well, we've got T Satellite for backup.

[Adam Schaefer]

Whoa, I don't trust my carrier that much.

[Sal Destefano]

We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.

[Adam Schaefer]

With America's best network and T Satellite, we're keeping you connected in places you never thought possible. And if you switch today, you get free phones for zero down and only 25 bucks a month per line for four lines. Find out more@t mobile.com or visit your local store.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

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