← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
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- [00:00]
Sal Destefano
Awkward time to ask this, but. Hey, did you download the trail map?
- [00:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. No, I don't need to.
- [00:06]
Sal Destefano
I don't understand. You're trusting your signal out here.
- [00:08]
Adam Schafer
I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network. And if we end up in bumtots nowhere, well, we've got T Satellite for backup.
- [00:15]
Kristen (Caller)
Whoa.
- [00:15]
Sal Destefano
I don't trust my carrier that much.
- [00:17]
Adam Schafer
We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.
- [00:21]
Sal Destefano
With America's best network and T Satellite, we're keeping you connected in places you never thought possible. And if you switch today, you get free phones for zero down and only 25 bucks a month per line for four. Find out more@t mobile.com or visit your local store. Best Mobile Network Based on analysis by Ooklev Speed Test Intelligence data to age 2025 with 24 monthly bill credits and 4 eligible port ins on essentials for well qualified customers with autopay plus taxes, fees and $35 connection charge per line credits and in balance 2 if you pay off earlier, cancel contact US Finance Agreement example $299.99 Moto Edge 5G required T Satellite available with compatible device in most outdoor areas in the US where you can see the sky included with experience beyond or $10 a month. However, news monthly cancel anytime visit t mobile.com early birds always rise to the
- [01:02]
Adam Schafer
occasion for summer vacation planning because early gets you closer to the action. So don't be late. Book your next vacation early on VRBO
- [01:09]
Sal Destefano
and save over $120.
- [01:11]
Adam Schafer
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- [01:19]
Sal Destefano
only one place to go.
- [01:22]
Adam Schafer
Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts
- [01:24]
Sal Destefano
Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews,
- [01:29]
Adam Schafer
you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode callers called in live on air. We got to coach them, which is always fun. By the way, that happened after the intro. So today's intro was about an hour long and in the intro we talked about fat loss, muscle gain, workouts, diet, current events, family life. By the way, if you want to be a live caller on an episode like this, what you do is you submit your question to mplife Caller Now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab. So they make skincare products that are biomimetics. So they're trying to mimic how the skin actually works. And they're all natural. This is why people love Caldera Lab. I mean, you notice a difference after one or two applications with skin moisture balancing. Even with acne, I notice less fine lines and wrinkles. In fact, over 80% of participants in the Caldera lab studies have shown the same thing. Anyway, if you go through our link, you can get yourself 20% off. Go to calderalab.com mindpump use the code mindpump20. That'll get you 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Ketone iq. This is a ketogenic diet in a bottle. So ketogenic diet is when you eat no carbohydrates whatsoever. Now your body burns ketones for energy and you get mental clarity. It's awesome. Except you're not eating carbs, which sucks, right? We all like carbs and it's great to work out. With carbs you get better pumps, the whole deal. Well, now you can drink Ketone iq. You just take a shot of one of their small bottles of their Ketone IQ product and boom. Ketones in your system. Even if you eat carbs and you get all the effects, the clarity, the focus, the smoothness, the energy. Try them out for yourself. See what I'm talking about? Go to ketone.com, that's K-E-T-O-N-E.com. that link can get you 30% off your subscription. Plus you can get a free gift with your second shipment. We also have a sale on nutrition calls with Mind Pump certified and approved personal trainers and coaches. These are our coaches, we hired them, our team trains and develops them. Here's what you do. You go to mindpumpnutrition.com, you get a 45 minute call with one of our coaches who breaks down your diet and nutrition and sets you up with a 12 week plan. It's normally $99, but right now if you go to mindpumpnutrition.com, use the code APRIL50, it's 50% off. So half of $99. It's like $48.50. By the way, this offer expires today at midnight. So if you catch this episode in time, act on it. Mindpumpnutrition.com, the code APRIL50. Alright, real quick.
- [04:12]
Doug
If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or or training gear over atmypumpstore.com. i'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over tomy pump store.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.
- [04:26]
Adam Schafer
One of the most frustrating things that People can suffer through when trying to lose weight. Is that last stubborn 10 pounds, you're losing weight, doing great, then you get about 10 pounds away from your goal. It won't budge no matter what you do. So what do you do? We have the answer. Check it out. What do you do? All right, let's talk about this. Why is this so stubborn? Why is it that this. Because this is common. You often hear about this. That last 10, 15 pounds just won't come off my body.
- [04:57]
Doug
What's your body's job?
- [04:58]
Sal Destefano
I was going to say you got to argue there's evolutionary reason for this. Right. I mean, your body has got to be the leaner you get.
- [05:06]
Adam Schafer
The harder it gets to get leaner.
- [05:07]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, the harder it gets to get leaner. It's not you would think, I guess common, common thought would be as I get in my rhythm and I'm consistent with my training and my diet, it should get easier and easier, but it's actually the opposite. Yeah, it gets harder and harder the leaner you get. I mean, I think the initial weight loss or body fat drop for somebody who say north of 30% body fat is relatively easy. But as you get closer and closer to that either for men, single digit body fat, for women, low 20s, it becomes really difficult every percent to get lower.
- [05:43]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. But you know what, you also hear this from people who aren't even trying to get that low. You'll just hear people who are like women who are trying to get like 26% body fat or guys who are trying to get to 16 or 17% and then they're 10 pounds away from their goal and then suddenly everything stops. And what's happening oftentimes because now if you're just doing things wrong and you're eating more suddenly and stuff like that, that's different. But let's say you're doing everything consistently and then suddenly you get stuck, you've hit a metabolic wall is what happened. And so to, to put it in a simple terms, and of course it's more complicated than this, but simply speaking, when you're losing body fat, you have to be in what's known as a calorie deficit. You have to be burning more than you're taking in. Okay. Or taking in less than you're consuming. And your body doesn't like to be in this place. Your body doesn't like to burn more calories than you're taking in. It has to borrow to make up the difference. And it borrows energy from hopefully body fat. Just like if you were spending more money than you were making. At some point, you look at your bank account and you go, yeah, we got to figure out how to spend less. And so your metabolism adapts you actually, your body starts to burn less calories. And one of the ways it does this is it'll pair muscle down. And in my experience, this is where this happens, is where a person's losing weight and they're eating less, eating less, moving more, moving more. And then they get in this place where they're like, I got to eat even less. I don't feel like I'm eating that much at all. I'm really hungry. I'm already working out a lot. I don't think it's realistic, knowing what my schedule is like and my consistency behaviors are like, to add more exercise. Is that what I got to do? I got to just. I got to cut even more my calories and exercise even more. And. And a lot of coaches and a lot of trainers would say, yeah, that's what you got to do, because that's the easy answer, but it's not actually the best answer. When you get stuck in this place where you hit that metabolic wall, what you often need to do to get the last 10 pounds off your body is to change gears and try to boost metabolism or try to make your metabolism learn or want to burn more calories. And so oftentimes, when I'm working with someone and they're stuck on those last ten pounds, we do a reverse diet and start focusing on building muscle so that we can get the £10 off,
- [08:12]
Doug
start giving them resources. I mean, it's literally like you're signaling your body. Your demand for calories is very high because of that amount of activity you're producing, but the resources are very low. And so your body's like, well, now we need to adjust for this and maintain whatever resources we can hold on to totally. So it's just like we're trying to go against our natural mechanisms there, and you just inevitably hit a wall. So reversing out is pretty much the answer.
- [08:40]
Sal Destefano
I'd say this is pretty obvious when you, you know, the calorie intake for both, whether it be for the female or male, like, so typically, if. If someone's hit this wall and they're a female, they're. They're. They're under 2,000 calories. There you go. And so it's, like, very obvious.
- [09:00]
Adam Schafer
It's like, we usually around 15.
- [09:03]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But any. But anything under 2000, if they hit this wall, I'm Going back the other way for sure, you're already at that low. Like for me, under 2000 for a female, anything really under 2500 for a male would be the same thing. Same thing. Guy. A guy who's eating, you know, 2400 something calories and that he's hit that wall. So I think that has a lot to do with it because if someone came to me and they're like, oh, I hit this wall, I can't lose. Last 10 pounds and she's eating 2600 calories. Oh, we still have, we still have room.
- [09:31]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [09:31]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, we still have room to cut and still be in a healthy place. And a guy comes to me, he says, oh, I've hit the wall. I can't lose the last 10 pounds. I go, how old your calories? Oh, I'm 3400 calories. Oh, okay.
- [09:41]
Adam Schafer
Well, easy.
- [09:42]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, we, easy. We have room. But typically this happens when somebody has already played the cutting, cutting and moving more game and they have now found themselves exercising, you know, four to six times a week, plus maybe even cardio or lots of steps in activity, and their calories are now in the low 2000s or under 2000 calories. And it's like, where do we go from here? And it's. You're in. Which is why I think so many people put all the weight back on. Because it's just not sustainable. It's not a sustainable place to be for probably 95 of the population. Unless you are obsessed with exercise, it's just not a good place to be. And so, yeah, it's almost always a reverse diet.
- [10:24]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And you, and this is so common that you even see this in people who use a GLP medication, which are powerful. These are powerful medications that just like really crush your appetite. We saw people like this. We worked personally, we worked with a group of 50 plus people and there were people on there who had lost significant weight on a glp. So they were, they were, they had to lose, I think it was close to north of £80. Initially. They'd gotten something like £60 off. There was another £30 left. They were at this plateau. There was one person in particular, I can remember, she was at this plateau for like six months. And we were asking her, okay, well, let's, let's look at what you're eating. And she was eating 1200 calories or less a day. Some days it was a thousand and she's got 30 more pounds. Not to get shredded, but just to get into like a normal healthy place she had 30 more pounds ago, and she was eating, like I said, a thousand to twelve hundred calories, sometimes even less. She said, and that's a tough. Your metabolic rate has this remarkable ability to adapt. It's crazy. We got good studies on this where there's a few ways your body will do this. Some of them are more mysterious than others, but the obvious ones that we can measure, and they've done this really well, where they'll. They'll put trackers on people and measure daily activity. And as a person ramps up their exercise and cuts their calories, their body will start to make up for it with reduced activity throughout the day. So without them realizing, they're sitting more, they're walking slower, they're doing less movement throughout the day because the body's trying to make up for it. Another obvious one is lethargic purposely. Yeah, totally. Another one. Another obvious one is muscle loss. So when you look at just a calorie deficit with activity minus strength training, so no strength training, so no protective exercise. When it comes to muscle, you look at 30% to 45% of the weight coming from muscle. And it's not the body's. Not that the person's body is burning muscle away because it needs to burn muscle for energy, but rather it's trying to reduce its demands by taking this tissue that's kind of expensive from a caloric standpoint and bringing it down. And then there's mysterious ways that the body slows its metabolism down. You know, you could have the same lean body mass and have a metabolism that decides to burn more or less calories. And this has to do probably with mitochondrial function and other mechanisms. Hormone changes can also affect this as well. So the body just starts to stress.
- [13:09]
Sal Destefano
Stress too. I mean, look at the challenge that Corinne and I are having currently right now, like with just her body not responding the way we would want it to. And it's. It can be very stressful and frustrating for somebody who feels like they're eating really well, training and doing all things. And so, you know, it. I don't know. This is the part about personal training I think is so valuable and why, I think, think tools like AI will never replace a good coach who can help somebody through this process. Because I've trained enough people to see anomalies like this all the time where it's just like, this doesn't make sense, you know, and the body sometimes just rebels and the math just doesn't.
- [13:53]
Adam Schafer
Math.
- [13:54]
Sal Destefano
It's like this, hey, based off of the amount of activity we're doing. And based off of my macros and what I'm eating, this is what should be happening. Yet it's, it's not because of all these variables.
- [14:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. What I used to do back in the day, even before I fully understood reverse dieting, like, even. Because there was a point there where I really understood the concept of reverse dieting. But even before that, when I'd get a client like this and we're doing the traditional, you know, we're doing some strength training, adding some activity, we're tracking calories and macros and we're cutting calories and then they get stuck, you know, 10, 15 pound plateau away from their goal. And it would be for a while and I would give them a good month or two before I decide it was a plateau. Because you don't get to see this consistent fat loss. Typically it's like you'll get a little bit and then it'll stop for a few weeks and it goes down again. But once I established, like, oh, this is a plateau, before I even understood what reverse dieting was, I just knew this person needed a mental break. So they'd come to me and we'd talk, okay, we're plateauing here. I'd say, you know what we're going to do for a little while, we're going to try to stop losing that last £15. We're just going to focus on getting strong for a little while. We're just going to focus on getting you stronger in the gym for a little while. It's a different focus. It feels good. And what tends to happen when we start to get stronger is then the fat loss starts to happen. Here's what everybody wants to do when they're stuck with that last ten pounds, they want to increase their activity and cut their calories more harder. Here's what most people need to do. Build their way out of this plateau. Yeah, you don't want to cut your way out of this plateau. You want to build your way out of this plateau. Far more successful strategy. I can almost always break through this kind of a plateau through a really structured let's get stronger phase, which typically includes an increase in calories, hitting protein targets. Changing the structure of my workouts a little bit, oftentimes I even reduce the volume and I'm looking at, look, let's just put some, let's see if we can get more weight on the bar. And then that's the plateau buster. Whereas a lot of people are like, no, no, I got to run more. I got to eat less, let me cut even more. The reason why it feels so stubborn is because your old methods stopped working. And then to make it worse, especially if your calories are already low, here's where it's really frustrating, because I talked about the person who's like, I don't want to cut anymore and I don't want to move anymore. You oftentimes even get the person who's like, fine, I'm going down lower. I was at 1600 calories. I'm going down to 1200 calories. And then I'm going to add an extra day of cardio. And they got 10 more pounds to lose. And then this is where it gets really crazy. And I've seen this more than a handful of times.
- [16:34]
Sal Destefano
You'll see them up. They'll see their weight shoot up sometimes.
- [16:37]
Adam Schafer
Oh, this is what. This is. What's more. More common. I've seen that too, which is that people are just like, I don't understand what's going on, but I've seen this is more common. We'll see, like, three pounds down on the scale plateau again. Then we'll do a body composition test, and we're like, looks like your body fat percentage went up. How is that possible? I lost three pounds. It was muscle. You lost three pounds of muscle?
- [16:59]
Doug
Our.
- [16:59]
Adam Schafer
Our nutrient intake was too low.
- [17:01]
Doug
Deceiving like that.
- [17:02]
Adam Schafer
And yeah, you're smaller, but you lost muscle, so your body fat percentage actually went up. Boy, is that really my favorite story around this.
- [17:11]
Doug
Adam is crushing.
- [17:12]
Adam Schafer
When you talk about what do you do with your trainers. I love that story. Because you have a bunch of trainers.
- [17:17]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [17:18]
Adam Schafer
That experience this. I mean, you've told it before. I would love to hear that story again because you're not talking about a bunch of everyday people who don't know how extra. These are trainers.
- [17:25]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [17:26]
Adam Schafer
That went through.
- [17:26]
Sal Destefano
No, I mean, it's. It was a competition that Justin was a part of this. And I used to do this, you know, on the fair, fairly regular basis, annually with my trainers, where we'd have fun. We used to have the. The hydrostatic way. I had a relationship with that company, and they used to bring the truck. So we had an outside source. This was like. What was great about it was that it was very controlled. Right. So it wasn't like.
- [17:48]
Adam Schafer
It was like just a mirror. Yeah.
- [17:50]
Sal Destefano
It wasn't a mirror. It wasn't a bunch of people that were randomly, like different trainers testing.
- [17:53]
Doug
They weren't testing their own calipers.
- [17:55]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. They weren't doing their own calipers it was an outside source that was scheduled.
- [17:59]
Adam Schafer
Third party.
- [17:59]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, third party. And real accurate, too. So, you know, and we would. We would test and then the goal was to, you know, who could have the greatest body composition change.
- [18:09]
Adam Schafer
How long was it for, by the way?
- [18:10]
Sal Destefano
Three months, I think, is what we used to do. Yeah, yeah, about three months is what we would do.
- [18:13]
Adam Schafer
Ninety days is. You could lose the most. Yeah, yeah. Body fat.
- [18:16]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, it was.
- [18:16]
Kristen (Caller)
It was.
- [18:16]
Sal Destefano
It was three or four months that we would do it for. And by the way, what was the prize?
- [18:21]
Adam Schafer
Was it bragging rights? Would you guys.
- [18:22]
Sal Destefano
We used to put money in the pot.
- [18:24]
Adam Schafer
Oh, wow.
- [18:24]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody. Everybody put money in the pot. And then, of course. Bragging rights.
- [18:28]
Doug
Yeah, bragging rights.
- [18:29]
Sal Destefano
Even though there was money involved, I think the. I think it was just when you're
- [18:32]
Adam Schafer
in the gym, you want to be the guy. Yeah.
- [18:34]
Sal Destefano
And this was also too, by the way, this is like the. This staff I'm talking about with Justin was my elite staff. There was a. There was a period of time where I had trainers I've shared before where I had got it down to about 15 trainers, and they were all master level. So these aren't a bunch of, like, newbie trainers. Rookie.
- [18:52]
Adam Schafer
These are all multiple certifications.
- [18:54]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, multiple certs. Yeah, Master trainers. Everyone's really good at what they do. And everybody was really fit, too. It was just taking your. Your fitness to another level. And man, the amount, including myself, of trainers that were just like, this thing doesn't work. Oh, yeah, that doesn't work. And them getting online and, like, looking for all the air in it, and it's just like, oh, I don't think I let enough air out when I went under.
- [19:23]
Doug
And I'm talking about extreme methods, too. You get guys doing, like, burpees in the sauna.
- [19:27]
Sal Destefano
Oh, yeah.
- [19:28]
Doug
Like all kinds of stuff to lose weight.
- [19:30]
Sal Destefano
To lose. To lose weight rapidly and to cut as hard as they could, like, so they were doing things like that. And because you have a bunch of trainers who probably are in very healthy metabolic places, too. You keep that in consideration, too. It's just like these are. They're coming from a healthy metabolic place. You're talking about some situations that could have. People that aren't healthy have hormone issues. These are all very balanced.
- [19:51]
Adam Schafer
This is a bias of fit people.
- [19:52]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. So. So if. If anybody should have an easy time of shredding down, it should be these guys and girls. And. Oh, yeah, at least half, you know, would come back and be incredibly frustrated. And you had situations where trainers body fat percentage actually went up because they
- [20:10]
Adam Schafer
would lose weight on the scale. Yeah, they're like super encouraged. I'm winning.
- [20:13]
Sal Destefano
Yes.
- [20:13]
Adam Schafer
I lost 10 pounds.
- [20:14]
Sal Destefano
Yes.
- [20:15]
Adam Schafer
But they did it through too much calorie restriction. Too much cardio.
- [20:18]
Sal Destefano
Yes. Yeah. And, and that's exactly what happened. And what like I said, like it would have resulted in is a bunch of pissed off trainers. It was such a, that I talk about that time in my career and I want to, I'm trying to remember what year I'm at Santa Teresa. So I'm about eight, nine years into my career at that time, maybe a little further along. And so I'd consider myself a relatively experienced towards the good part of being what I consider myself good. So that was a very eye opening moment for me that time. And then of course when I got into competing and took that to a whole nother level on it, on a, on consistency and also being presenting myself and even lower really just opened my eyes to how, how easily people can dip into that.
- [21:02]
Adam Schafer
How the body works.
- [21:03]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, exactly. And how that could fluctuate and I mean just, you know, I hope, I hope Corinne, I'll ask her today. I know she listens because she's, she's heard us talking about her. I hope she's okay and comfortable with me continuing to share. But I think she's such a great example because she's brilliant, she knows what to do. She's great at coaching clients that are showing this. But even herself is, is challenged with this. And we have these moments where we just had a week where I gave her a diet break and we have a diet break and I cut her like 500 calories a day. 500 calories a day. Her steps were like at 10,000, which is increased from 8,000 steps. So where she no cardio, but just increased activity, reduced calories. And so it really was more about the diet break. And every Sunday we have a check in photos, weights, I get all her stats and everything like that. And we're up two and a half pounds on the scale post period too by the way. So, so last weigh in things of that we're in the thick of period holding water, all things so that. So logically, you know, as trainers you go, okay, there's no way she's gaining fat in this week. But her, her body weight on the scale is up two or three pounds in a calorie reduction like that. And so you know, the body, we, we, we expect it to work on this perfect 24 hour clock because that's what we've decided a day is right, but it doesn't work that way. Your, your hormones and are fluctuating your, you know, sodium intake and the way your body's storing water. You know, it's just there's so many things that can, can manipulate it. The time you decided to get on the scale that day and hop on it and measure it and can be really discouraging. And I think the common mistake is the course correction when you're, you're doing a lot of the right things. And so it's, it's super common. Trainers are not mu. Immune to it. They, they, they battle with it just as much. But again, the, the big lessons that, that I have learned through that is to, is to trust the process and to continue to stay the course. Because what I have found is in a lot of times, like, what I, what, what I'll expect to happen from, like, with Corinne is continuing down the path we're going, and then all of a sudden it seems like the body catches up. And the analogy I kind of give is the way we talk about how children grow, you know. Yeah. In these weird spurts. It's not like you feed when you, you feed your kid when your kid rests. And they grow over years. We all know that. Everybody knows this, right? And what we used to think, what scientists used to think back in days, it was just this real incremental, slow, gradual, all the time type of growth. And what we've learned is that it's not like that at all. In fact, they can look flatlined for a period of time, and then all of a sudden, boom, this like, spurt happens. And a lot of times in the muscle building game and the fat loss game that your body responds that way, you doing all the right things and stuff like that, and it's just like, no results. No results. This sucks. I'm not seeing the results. Maybe even see a little bit of negative results. And then, boom, one week you have, and it's like you look like you lost a percent or two of body fat. And so this, this makes this difficult for people.
- [24:18]
Adam Schafer
It does. I remember for myself, one of the first times I allowed myself, I say allowed because my challenge was, you know, I always wanted to gain weight. But the first time I actually stuck through a diet where I was trying to get myself down to like below 10%. And I remember it got kind of hard towards 9% body fat. You know, appetite goes up, the whole deal. But I got there and then I bumped my calories. I'm like, cool, I got here, let me just eat more and bump my calories. Now at this time, I had been doing regular caliper testing. Okay, so body fat testing. I had somebody test me and I remember I bumped my calories, was eating more. Of course, you feel great, more energy, stronger in the gym. And two weeks later, I just had a curiosity. Let me see where my body fat percentage is. I went up on the scale. I don't remember how many pounds, like 4 or 5 pounds. And I was down to just below 8%. And I remember being like, what, how did this, how is it that I ate more and I got leaner? I built, I built into it, you know, body fat percentage. This is a percentage of your body that's body fat. So what that means is if you're listening right now and I snap my fingers and you gain 10 pounds of just muscle, just muscle. So you're 10 pounds heavier than the scale, your body fat percentage went down even if you don't lose a single pound of body fat. So I think what a lot of people need to do in this situation here where they've been losing, losing, losing, they've been doing the, what they think is the right thing, cutting their calories and doing more activity. Now they're stuck with that plateau, that stubborn last, whatever, £10, £15. Build your way out of it. Watch what happens. It's. This is when the magic starts to happen. You're working with your body.
- [25:58]
Sal Destefano
I will add to that to, to that though, as you, to, to mentally prepare you psychologically, because the most difficult part is there, there's an, there's an uncomfortable phase of that. And I think that's why it gets so difficult, which we, we, we've all. Whether you're the person who is obsessed with getting big and so the cutting part or, or vice versa, you're afraid to get big. There, there'll come up, they'll come a time where you're, you're doing the right things and you'll feel uncomfortable or it won't feel right. And, and I can't stress enough, the advice you're giving is right, is just to keep building the direction in what I have found. So long as you're eating whole foods, hitting your protein intake right, and feeding the body, that way you will be, you won't put on a bunch of body fat.
- [26:47]
Adam Schafer
No, you're not going to mess up
- [26:48]
Sal Destefano
real bad if you reverse diet. And you're basically calling your reverse diet or reverse diet. But what you're really doing is allowing yourself to eat whatever you want, whenever you want. And you're hungry.
- [26:58]
Adam Schafer
Like that's where healthy food.
- [27:00]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. But if you, if you do this where you're like you're saying is reverse diet out when you're hungry, feed, feed a whole, whole natural meal type of deal and lead with protein. I can't. I don't think I've ever seen anybody not have success. They will probably go through a little bit of a uncomfortable phase. If you're really low calorie and you have someone bump 3, 300 to 500 calories, that could be a third of their day.
- [27:23]
Adam Schafer
You're going to gain water weight for sure.
- [27:25]
Sal Destefano
And you gain some water. Yeah, you're going to gain some water weight that you're going to hold on to a little bit which will make you like, oh my God, I got fatter. But trust me, 500 calories didn't put a pound of fat on you. Even if it put two or three pounds on the scale, it didn't put a pound of fat on you. And just keep going that direction and you will, you eventually speed that metabolism up. You will build your way out of that, that body fat reduction you want. And then kind of what we talked about the other day so many times too, and this is a, this is a recent lesson for myself. I the last body fat test that discouraged or upset me but then which I thought was so this is the opposite of a situation I've had. I felt like I look pretty good. Wife's compliment me. I'm feeling pretty good. I'm back to the walking around naked in the house, brushing my teeth. Get a body fat test that came back went that's not good.
- [28:15]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:16]
Sal Destefano
And that, and it messed with my head. And because I'm like, it wasn't the number that I expected. I'm really good at being able to guess that. But the truth is I just have, I have more muscle under the body fat that I have this time. And when I actually think about it, I'm like, you know what? I, I like that. I don't mind. I don't. And so a lot of people are stuck on this scale number or body fat percentage number. But if they would just put more
- [28:37]
Adam Schafer
muscle in their body. Funny. A woman at 24 body fat who gains muscle and even stays the same body fat. So she gained some body fat with it. So 24, 24 more muscle. You look leaner, you have more shape on your body. You've got more sculpt. Same thing for a man. So yeah, More muscle at looks, better at, higher body fat percentage and less muscle does.
- [28:56]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Yeah. So I. I had a question for you guys. Is there recently have either one of you guys almost got into a street fight?
- [29:04]
Doug
It wasn't a street fight or, like, a field fight.
- [29:08]
Adam Schafer
I've been holding on. I've been dying.
- [29:11]
Doug
Oh, man. I text right away. So shocking, you know, Like, I think you hear a lot of stories of, like, Little League games and. And, you know, where parents go crazy and, like, just too interactive, and they just don't let the refs. They get all heated and really, like, what's crazy about. So I. I left the studio, and I was, like. Wasn't sure if I was gonna make the game because it's pretty far to get there from here.
- [29:35]
Sal Destefano
This is Everett's flag football.
- [29:37]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [29:38]
Doug
So you just have a flag football game. So he's in the playoffs now, so. Oh, there's that extra bit of intensity, you know, and so I left and. And I got there a little bit before the half, so I kind of didn't get a lot of the context of, like, how the game's been going. Like, Courtney wasn't like, keep me updated. I get in there, and it's like, just. You could feel the tension, like, already is, like, very good game. Like, and so we were actually behind by, like, two touchdowns when I got there. And then we started making all this progress, like, right when I got there, and I'm just like, yeah, like, you know, yelling. They're looking back at me, like. And it was like, the coaches were close to us. The. The spectators are on one side. Our team's on the other side. And so there was a lot of, like, engagement between their coaches.
- [30:29]
Sal Destefano
You're on the. You're on the visitor side.
- [30:30]
Doug
We're on the visitor side with this. So I think that's kind of where, you know, some of the conflict when you get into the intensity of, like, you know, that's my son out there, and you're not making a call.
- [30:41]
Adam Schafer
Like, it.
- [30:42]
Doug
There was a lot of talking with their coach, was very, very overstepping with the referees, and he was like, you know, he's flat guarding. He's doing this, like. Like, every single thing. How much time are they going to have on the field to figure this out? And he's, like, counting down the seconds they had in between plays and, like, saying, like, they're going over, and it was, like, just overkill, you know, and. And I'm just kind of, like, just trying to acclimate and get there. And see what's going on. And, you know, Courtney's trying to update me with this. And. And then there was, like, a lot of this chatter from one of the moms on our side and their coach specifically. And it was like, so she's in
- [31:26]
Sal Destefano
the stand and she's barking at him and he's down in the field. Yeah.
- [31:29]
Doug
So they. There's no stands. It was all field. So it was like a soccer field.
- [31:33]
Sal Destefano
Ah, got it.
- [31:35]
Doug
Yeah. And so we were like. I was like, in the shade, so it was a hot day. So there was like a whole bunch of parents, like, in the shade, and there was parents that were like, right there on the field, right next to behind their.
- [31:44]
Sal Destefano
Okay, team. Okay.
- [31:46]
Doug
And the other part was funny because I was showing up knowing that it's the team that, like, I grew up at this school. And they. So every time we play them, there's this, like, added bit. Like, I kind of know their kids and I kind of know the mentality. Like, it's really funny coming back to sports now as an adult, and you see kind of like the culture of different schools and, like, kind of the vibe. And, like, so we grew up and our fans were, like, really engaged in, like, very, like, know, vocal.
- [32:22]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [32:23]
Doug
And my dad still kind of has that energy, and I'm always, like, calming him down. Like, dad, you know, like, let's let the. The game play. Let the kids have fun. Let the refs call the game.
- [32:32]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [32:32]
Doug
You know, and so nobody was, like, checking the fans and, you know, regulating this. And so it just kept getting more intense and more intense. We started coming back and, you know, the kids were. Were feeling a lot of this, and then they started to kind of, like, scuffle and, like, it was getting a little bit violent. Like, one of the kids, like, we're grabbing for the. For the flag and then ends up tackling the kid. And then they're.
- [33:01]
Adam Schafer
Oh.
- [33:01]
Doug
Then the parents get all crazy. So anyway, it turns out, like, we ended up winning the game.
- [33:07]
Sal Destefano
And so you guys came back at one.
- [33:08]
Doug
Came back one. And it was like, it was. It was epic. Like, we got, like, a safety, and then, like, so we just won by, like, I think it was like two points or maybe. Maybe four. I think they missed, like, some extra point conversions along the way, but super close. And it was like a great game. Like, I wish it was just the game, you know, with the kids, and that was it.
- [33:29]
Sal Destefano
Right?
- [33:29]
Doug
And we all like, yeah, good game, good game, you know, good sportsmanship. But it was like, it just got kind of escalated. After the game, the coaches kind of came over, and they were, like, barking at some of the parents. And one of the. One of the coaches is where I kind of got triggered, because. So one of the moms, like, was kind of still yelling because of one of the calls, and even after she won. So this was like. It's like, yeah, right. Like, right at the end. Yeah, she said something. And then one of their coaches was like, who let this lady out.
- [34:04]
Adam Schafer
Out of the house?
- [34:05]
Doug
And like, get back in the kitchen, you know?
- [34:07]
Sal Destefano
Oh, he said that?
- [34:08]
Doug
Yeah, dude. Like, super dog. Derogatory. And I was just like. I was like. I was like, hey, watch your mouth. You know, I'm like. I yelled back at their coach because I just was like, dude, that's not cool. You know? And. And so they're all just. And he turns around and just kind of, like, looks back, and he sees Justin.
- [34:28]
Adam Schafer
Well, so I'll be quiet.
- [34:29]
Doug
So we have another parent who's. He's this big jacked, like, Asian guy, and he's. One of his kids, like, plays. I've seen him at basketball games. But he just, like, calmly kind of walks over to. To their coaches after the game, and he's just, like, trying to, like. Like, hey, man, like, what. Why, like, why are you guys engaging so much, you know, with. Let's just let the kids play. And he was trying to be kind of like, check them and be a little bit diplomatic about it. But then the coaches, like, kind of went off the hinges on him, start yelling at him, getting his face.
- [35:03]
Adam Schafer
What?
- [35:03]
Doug
And then, like, this other coach was kind of swarming over to the side of him, and then some other people were coming this way, and so I was just, like, you know, talking to Courtney, and I saw this all kind of forming. You know how when. When they start swarming and trying to kind of, like, zone in on one person? I was like, nah, dude. So I just. I walked right up to them, and I kind of tapped one of the coaches on the shoulder. I was like, what's going on over here? And he just kind of looks over at me. She's like, oh, no, no, no, no. We're a good boss.
- [35:31]
Adam Schafer
This pump.
- [35:32]
Doug
We're a good boss. And he's, like, yelling, and he, like, grabs the coach. He's like, no, no, we gotta go.
- [35:39]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Because Justin came over.
- [35:42]
Doug
It was so funny, dude, because it was, like, literally on the brink of. And you felt it, like, you know, it's in the air. Like, I felt like they were gonna, like, attack this guy.
- [35:51]
Adam Schafer
That's exactly what I pictured when you. When you texted us. I'm like, oh, I know what happened. They started getting loud at each other, and then Justin walked over and they thought, it's probably not a good idea if we should probably chill out.
- [36:02]
Sal Destefano
Well, I was telling Sal. I was telling Sal, when you're out in the bathroom, I said, justin has. When these moments happen, Justin has that look on his face that's like, I want to use that shoulder press.
- [36:11]
Adam Schafer
I'm looking for. I'm looking for an excuse. I got all this bearing.
- [36:16]
Sal Destefano
I've been baring this shit.
- [36:17]
Adam Schafer
Let it out.
- [36:18]
Doug
I have some moves I want to use. I've never, like, really kicked somebody hard. I've always wanted to do that.
- [36:24]
Adam Schafer
Oh, my God, dude, what an uppercut look like.
- [36:26]
Doug
Oh, my God. I was thinking about these things. It just is like a switch, though, cuz, like, I'm like, well, he disrespected. You know, I'm like, I'm not okay with that. Like, if they do anything, like, they're done.
- [36:37]
Adam Schafer
And it just.
- [36:39]
Sal Destefano
You know what's funny? You know, the funniest thing about this is that I. If all four of us were put in situations like this, the most likely to fight would be Justin and then Doug probably, and then you or I. Which I think is so opposite of what people would think.
- [36:52]
Doug
I don't know. I think people see you if somebody got disrespected.
- [36:54]
Sal Destefano
Well, okay. I'm quick. What I'm quick about. So if someone was messing with. Yeah, yeah. If one of you guys. I would definitely be the first person.
- [37:03]
Adam Schafer
If it was my wife, you know, that's right.
- [37:05]
Doug
And she didn't have, like, her husband wasn't there or anything she was in. They were kind of like verbally attacking her. And like.
- [37:11]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:11]
Doug
And I was just like, no. As soon as. Anyways, it was one of those things,
- [37:15]
Adam Schafer
you know, it's okay with it. You know, it just reminds me of that video you guys showed me. Was it you that showed me from that actor from Jack Reacher? Oh, yeah, yeah. What's the actor's name? Does anybody know? I don't his actor.
- [37:24]
Doug
I don't know.
- [37:25]
Sal Destefano
Everybody knows him by Jack Reacher.
- [37:26]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, he's got a body cam on and he's riding his motorcycle with his kids. With his kids. And his kids have, like, motorbikes. And they look young, bro. They look like they're seven, eight, maybe nine maybe. I don't look like little kids.
- [37:36]
Doug
Alan.
- [37:37]
Adam Schafer
Rich, rich son. Okay. And they're riding around a neighborhood and his body cam, you can watch the video online. And one of his neighbors stands in front of him to the point where he has to dump his bike. Yeah.
- [37:48]
Doug
Yeah.
- [37:48]
Adam Schafer
He's like, you're riding around this neighborhood. He's like, yelling at him. Yeah. And he's like, yo, man, are you, like, are you drunk? Like, what's going on? And so they go back and forth a little bit. Gets on his bike again, and he's obviously irritated, so he revs it. Yeah. The neighbor gets right in front of him again, and then that's when he snaps and punches the guy. But I'm like, what a. What a terrible situation to be in because your kids are there.
- [38:10]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [38:11]
Adam Schafer
You know, it's like, part of me is like, I don't want to.
- [38:13]
Doug
Right.
- [38:14]
Adam Schafer
Get violent in front of my kids, but then part of me is also.
- [38:16]
Sal Destefano
I mean, I think he. I think he handled.
- [38:18]
Adam Schafer
You're doing this.
- [38:19]
Sal Destefano
I think he handled it, right?
- [38:20]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [38:20]
Sal Destefano
Like. I mean, I think that, like, goes through your mind. I think he did it. I think
- [38:25]
Adam Schafer
eventually the guy down.
- [38:26]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, he eventually pushed the guy down and pummeled his ass.
- [38:28]
Doug
Yeah.
- [38:29]
Sal Destefano
But, I mean, he first tried to diffuse it or was like, what are you doing? You know what I'm saying? And the guy was still, you know, berating. It was like, it'd be different if he hopped off his bike and just started whooping the dude's ass. Right. That's a different story.
- [38:39]
Adam Schafer
But he jumped in front of him, which is not. That's, like, dangerous.
- [38:42]
Doug
Yeah.
- [38:42]
Adam Schafer
You know, he had to dump his bike as a result. But that's. That's, like, the last thing you want to do as a parent. Because, listen, you might think it's like, you get a situation like that, lose your temper. It's terrifying for your kids to see your dad do that.
- [38:55]
Sal Destefano
Remember, you shared this story a long time ago about the kid who threw a basketball at the back.
- [38:59]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, dude, he threw a ball. I was driving. My. My. This. My older kids were little, and we're driving. There's teenage kids playing basketball. And as we drove by, one of them thought it would be funny to throw the basketball at the car, and it bounced off the back window. My daughter, who at the time was little, she was a little. Who's like three or four maybe, and I'm already feeling the fumes because they hit the ball off. And I was gonna keep driving, but then I looked at rear view mirror. My daughter looked terrified, and that was it. I snapped. That's when I pulled over. They all ran Inside. And I tore their basketball hoop off their thing. My kids never forgot that, you know, that whole thing. And I regret losing my temper like that or whatever.
- [39:37]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah, but, man, did I. Did I share with you guys the, the. I told you when the whole thing happened with my car, the, the M8 getting, like totaled, right? Like, the, like, I was like, trying to. What is the lesson that I'm supposed to get from all this? I'd say one of the things that, like, came up for me that was really interesting, I shared with Katrina, she's like, oh, my God, I've never heard you tell that story before. And I'm like, well, I hadn't. I said I hadn't thought about it. I came up because I was like, really trying to figure out, like, what is this supposed to be about? It's supposed to be like, detachment from material things, like whatever, and not care. And, you know, I. I don't know. You guys weren't around. I think Doug saw a little bit, but I was like, really just so calm about the whole thing and concerned about the guy who hit it and everything like that. Inside, my heart was broken, but really tried to handle it with like, okay, what's the, what's my lesson here? And so when I was 16, the first real materialistic thing that I ever obsessed over or loved was my Acura Integra. It was the first car, it was the first thing I ever got that was worth More than $1,000. And I love that car. Every dollar that every paycheck went into that thing. And so I don't know if you know this or. But I. Right after I had it for like maybe six months, I'm. I'm. I'm in the middle lane to. To turn into a grocery store, to go left, and it's just pouring down rain. It's that kind of rain where your windshield wipers go as fast as possible and they still can't clear the rain off fast enough. It's raining like that. And a lady drifts over and clips me. And when I. I'm in the rain and, and I'm in that and it slides. I, in my head think it's like a little bump. And I get out and I see my car and it's actually smashed in the exact same spot. Looks exactly the same as the M8. And I go. I go ape shit. I'm a stupid 16 and a half 17 year old kid, you know, and someone just broke my toy. And I'm screaming and yelling and I'm all Irate out in the middle of the road with night raining down. And I'm going. And it was an old lady that was in the car and she was so scared she wouldn't get out of the car.
- [41:34]
Doug
Oh.
- [41:35]
Sal Destefano
Until the cops came. The cops finally came and were there was when she finally would open her door and come out because here's this teenage boy who's.
- [41:42]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. You know.
- [41:42]
Sal Destefano
Scared. Yes. Yeah. And I don't, I can't see who she is at, you know, just mad. I'm just mad. But I was cussing and swearing and swinging my arms and just like so pissed when I saw it. I thought, oh, that's so crazy because that was. I mean I walked up on that situation with that guy and it was the total opposite. It was like, I didn't do that at all. Was more concerned about. I was like, bro, we should probably get out of the car because he's in the middle of the middle of the street still. And he was totally kind of out of it. But I had forgot about that memory completely about that part of that. At least at that part of that moment. I was like, oh, that's right. I forgot that.
- [42:13]
Adam Schafer
When you saw the old lady, did you say sorry or were you still.
- [42:16]
Sal Destefano
No, totally not. I was.
- [42:17]
Adam Schafer
You're still.
- [42:17]
Sal Destefano
No, totally. I was so in my own, my own moment. I was in. I'm a young, dumb 17 year old kid. I still was mad at her, you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't. The only reason I only thought about that now was like, oh, that's right. I forgot that she was so scared that she stayed in her car.
- [42:32]
Adam Schafer
I had someone scare me in my car, like terrify the hell out of me. When I was 16 years old, I was driving this one. I had a. I bought my first car. That was mine was a Toyota pickup truck. And I put rims on. It was just a four banger. Like there's. I didn't even have AC or power steering. But you know, it's my own car.
- [42:47]
Sal Destefano
But you had ribs.
- [42:48]
Adam Schafer
I had rims. I had rims on it. And, and I, and I thought it was fast, which it wasn't. It was like 160 horsepower, you know, four, four cylinder. But I was driving and there was a truck next to me and I thought I'd race them because that's what I did all the time. And I took off at the light, went in front of them, put my hazards on because that's what you do when you beat someone, right? To show them and Then I break check them a little bit like, oh, yeah, I beat you. Well, it turned out to be the biggest human being I've ever seen in my life. He pulled up next to me and he was so mad and yelling at me and he was huge. He was the big. He was jacked in.
- [43:22]
Doug
Huge break check somebody that is.
- [43:25]
Adam Schafer
And I was looking at him and I kept saying to him, I'm just a kid. I'm just a kid. And then I had to stop at a stoplight and I stopped and he got out of his car and he was just as big as I thought he was. And he tried to rip my side view mirror off. And I kept telling him I was just a kid. And he got in his car and took off. And I remember being like, oh, man, that was really scary. And years later, so now I'm 18. I'm the fitness manager at 24 Hour Fitness in Hillsdale. One of my trainers was a competitive bodybuilder. Brought in his friend, Mr. San Jose. It was that guy. He didn't recognize me. Yeah, he walks in, I'm like, I
- [44:02]
Doug
know you're talking about big white dude.
- [44:03]
Adam Schafer
Yes, massive white dude.
- [44:05]
Doug
Gold gym.
- [44:06]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I know, exactly. Huge white dude. Yeah, this is back in 97 or 98.
- [44:09]
Doug
I used to call him Troy.
- [44:10]
Adam Schafer
So you can look him up if you want.
- [44:11]
Doug
He looks like that guy from Troy.
- [44:13]
Adam Schafer
But he walked in, he didn't recognize me, of course, but I looked at him.
- [44:15]
Doug
Oh, shit,
- [44:18]
Adam Schafer
there he is, bro.
- [44:21]
Doug
I had something like that happen, but I was like in college and I was like pulling out of campus and there's this guy, like, you know, I could see him in my rear view mirror, like, just like tailgating everybody behind and like swerving, going all crazy. And then he finally got to me. And so I decided like, oh, I'm just, screw this guy, I'm gonna break check him. And I just kept break checking him and I could see the guy just raging and going crazy. And then we get to the stoplight and I'm here and he's next to me and he's like yelling and I'm rolling down my window. I was like, what are you going to do? And he literally takes his gun out of the center console. He's got it like this.
- [44:59]
Adam Schafer
And I.
- [44:59]
Doug
And I just immediately was like, oh. And it turned right and just sped out to the right, like, right as dude. Like, I. I still think about that today. Like, that's all been a huge deterrent for me to ever like, get in the road rage stuff. And it's like, why? Why, like, why did I even get involved? Obviously he was like, running from the cops or like something like, he was not.
- [45:20]
Sal Destefano
You never know.
- [45:21]
Doug
You don't want to mess with people now.
- [45:22]
Adam Schafer
It's like so hard to get me, like, in that space now. Like, someone's doing something or whatever. I'm like, whatever, it's not a big deal. And yeah, I've even had the thought, like, I've even had this thought where, like, someone's racing and trying to get around me or whatever. I'm like, what if it's like an emergency? What if the dude is trying to get somewhere or something like that. You never know. You know what I mean?
- [45:41]
Sal Destefano
Katrina is the master at that. She always has the ability, like in those moments to like, think of, yeah, well, what if this. And it's like, oh, God, okay, what do you make me feel terrible? You know? I'm saying, like, that's like, you never. You don't know. You have no idea what that person
- [45:52]
Adam Schafer
is, you know, what it was going
- [45:53]
Sal Destefano
through or on their way to.
- [45:54]
Adam Schafer
So when I told this story, horrible happened to him. I just remembered now, I told this story maybe a couple years later, so I'm 19 or 20, told the exact story I just said to a friend of mine who then told me, this is a made up story. And he's like, you know, he's like, this is. Let me tell you a story that'll help you. And he's like a dad gets on his. On a bus with his two kids and they're just acting up and they're just screaming and climbing the seats and throwing things, and everybody's looking at this dad, like, why don't you do something about it? Why don't you? Finally, one of the kids spits and it hits this woman and she stands up and screams at the dad, what kind of father are you? Why aren't you helping your kids? And he looks at her and goes, I'm sorry. Their mother just passed away and they don't know how to handle it. And I remember when I heard that, it crushed me. And I'm like, you know what? You don't know what people are going through. They could very well be massive jerks. But they could also be going through something. Who knows? Anyway, some more studies are coming out on the best form of exercise for skin.
- [46:46]
Sal Destefano
Form of exercise for skin.
- [46:47]
Adam Schafer
For skin. Like, what form of exercise improves the way skin looks the best?
- [46:53]
Doug
I'm asking, not cardio.
- [46:55]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. You guys know the answer to this. You know this, when you've seen fitness fanatics and the kind of exercise they do, there's a difference in their skin.
- [47:02]
Doug
There is.
- [47:03]
Adam Schafer
Here's what they found in the study. Strength training by far was the best because it increases collagen production systemically. So when you lift weights, obviously if you're building muscle, you're getting lots of protein synthesis. Part of this is collagen production.
- [47:18]
Doug
Okay. I was thinking oxidative stress was probably
- [47:21]
Adam Schafer
like, well that's the other part. With too much of any exercise.
- [47:24]
Doug
Sure.
- [47:25]
Adam Schafer
But it was the only form of exercise to really, really boost collagen production in the skin. So it's like the best form of exercise with good looking skin.
- [47:33]
Sal Destefano
Does that is, is, is that like, like every time you're working out you get this boost from it or is it like a sustained thing by carrying more lean body mass? You get it Both. Both.
- [47:43]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, you get this, you get this signal that says boost protein synthesis and then over time your body carries more collagen matrixes, more, more. Just muscle fibers, larger muscle fibers. So it's literally, you know, you think of strength training as muscle building. It's protein building and which includes collagen, which is a protein.
- [48:05]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [48:06]
Adam Schafer
So speaking of skin, by the way, so Caldera lab, right. One of our partners, they, one of the reasons why they're so good at what they do, they have a term called biomimetics. Biomimetics. And essentially what their theory or their, their, their methodology is, is they want to, they are trying to find and work with natural ingredients that act like skin. So do our formulas mimic, and I'm reading off their website, the skin's natural pathways? In other words, is this how the body, the skin naturally moisturizes, naturally boosts collagen production, naturally reduces damage from UV rays and that's the, the foundation of where they look at their, their compounds and their formulations.
- [48:55]
Sal Destefano
Interesting.
- [48:56]
Adam Schafer
So they're not trying to like. Because there's different ways to look at this. You can look at it from like, let's figure out what chemicals do this, that and the other. Or you could say how does the skin work and what helps the skin?
- [49:05]
Doug
How do you work with the skin?
- [49:07]
Sal Destefano
How do you enhance it? Measure something like that?
- [49:08]
Adam Schafer
I don't know, dude.
- [49:09]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, well, I mean obviously there's a way to do it because we've, we've used people have used pharmaceuticals to clear skin and do things like that.
- [49:16]
Adam Schafer
Right.
- [49:16]
Sal Destefano
But they're not, that's normally like some. They're killing the bacteria or killing something.
- [49:19]
Doug
Yeah. It's kind of taking over the job.
- [49:21]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, no, that's a good point. Like, you want to get rid a bunch of bacteria. We could either antibiotic the hell out of you or we could figure out a way to improve the microbiome of whatever we're looking at.
- [49:30]
Sal Destefano
Right. And that's. And that's got to be the difference. Right. Like most of your, your chemical face products are designed to like kill and like start over on it. Right.
- [49:40]
Doug
Like.
- [49:40]
Sal Destefano
Like an antibiotic where this is doing something more like a probiotic.
- [49:44]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [49:44]
Sal Destefano
Right. I don't know if that's a way.
- [49:45]
Adam Schafer
No, no, that's a good. That's a good example. Yeah, yeah, totally. Doug, that picture you pulled up before, by the way, that was not Mr. San Jose, that was Mike Matarazzo who was a. Yeah, I couldn't find your Mr. Santos. Yeah, I would love to see a picture of this guy. Six foot tall, white dude, flat top.
- [50:02]
Doug
Oh, flat top. Oh, he was bald. The one I'm thinking of.
- [50:04]
Adam Schafer
Maybe he was Bald. He was 6 foot. He's just a tall dude for a bodybuilder, obviously. Huge jacked. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know who it is.
- [50:12]
Doug
I know. I feel like I know.
- [50:13]
Adam Schafer
That's why I want to see a picture.
- [50:14]
Sal Destefano
Trying to remember, is he still personal training?
- [50:15]
Adam Schafer
I believe. I have no idea.
- [50:16]
Sal Destefano
I think he's still personal training.
- [50:17]
Adam Schafer
White dude. Like straight up white dude. His face was red when he was yelling at me.
- [50:22]
Doug
Just veins in the forehead.
- [50:24]
Adam Schafer
I remember that part.
- [50:25]
Doug
Yeah, yeah.
- [50:25]
Sal Destefano
I feel, I feel like we have to. I mean, the chances that we don't know him would be higher.
- [50:30]
Adam Schafer
Did you guys see what happened with Facebook, Instagram, with Meta?
- [50:35]
Sal Destefano
No.
- [50:35]
Adam Schafer
Okay, so they just. I'll pull it up.
- [50:37]
Doug
Oh, wait, so did they just pull a lot of their VR? I. I heard that they downsized because that was like a huge.
- [50:46]
Adam Schafer
Well, that's not miss for them. I know that they are. They're cutting on that. But that's not the article. Okay, so the article shows LA jury came out with a verdict that finds Instagram, YouTube and Instagram and YouTube, sorry, were designed specifically to addict kids.
- [51:02]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [51:03]
Adam Schafer
No, so they had to prove this in court, which that's not good for them at all. That's not a good ruling because if you are found specifically, and here's what my question is, how do they prove this in the court? We're trying to make kids like it versus make it addicting.
- [51:22]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Not only that, but like.
- [51:23]
Adam Schafer
Because what's the difference?
- [51:24]
Sal Destefano
And Then does that open the door for the. All the gaming companies that do the
- [51:29]
Adam Schafer
same exact thing if this kind of verdict sticks and starts to spread? You're right. And I'm going to say this as a parent. You know, you make. If you use addictive science for children, I think that should be heavily regulated. I do. I really do. Because of the way it affects the brain and development. I think it's a problem. Addictive things for adults, I'm not a fan of either, but at least you're an adult. You can make your own decisions.
- [51:55]
Doug
Yeah, you can.
- [51:57]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [51:57]
Doug
You can actually discern whether or not, like, you are addicted. Like, it's like, yeah, they're just susceptible to.
- [52:03]
Adam Schafer
But, you know, I used to be like this huge. Like, give people choices, make their own decisions. I'm largely still that way. But more and more I'm realizing that people just.
- [52:15]
Sal Destefano
Humans need.
- [52:16]
Adam Schafer
We just can't help ourselves, so.
- [52:19]
Sal Destefano
Or more some sort of a moral foundation.
- [52:21]
Adam Schafer
Well, that for sure.
- [52:22]
Doug
Have you guys watched that documentary? It's about plastics.
- [52:28]
Sal Destefano
I saw that, but I didn't see. I didn't watch. Yeah.
- [52:29]
Doug
How pervasive it is. Has become over the last decade or so. But, yeah, it's got. I forget her name, but she was on Joe Rogan before, like, hilarious lady. She talks about phthalates and like. Yeah, she did the study with the taints and all that and the size and like, reproduction.
- [52:44]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [52:45]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, that study, the study that. What about.
- [52:47]
Doug
Oh, she measured the taints.
- [52:49]
Adam Schafer
Oh, you brought.
- [52:50]
Sal Destefano
One of you brought that up for a long time.
- [52:52]
Adam Schafer
Shorter.
- [52:52]
Doug
Yeah, it gets smaller and smaller.
- [52:54]
Adam Schafer
The area between the front and the back.
- [52:57]
Doug
Yeah.
- [52:57]
Adam Schafer
Shrinking related to chemicals.
- [53:00]
Doug
Just showing all these petrochemicals.
- [53:02]
Sal Destefano
Like, you know what? I'm going to measure taints. I have this weird suspicion that they're shrinking. I have a hunch. Yeah, like, how do you come up with.
- [53:11]
Adam Schafer
I have a hunch about your launch.
- [53:12]
Sal Destefano
How do you come up. How many.
- [53:13]
Adam Schafer
How many taints do you have to see before you, like, before you have some sort of correlation. Right.
- [53:17]
Sal Destefano
To draw to, Like, I don't know.
- [53:18]
Adam Schafer
Man, these ts are looking smaller than the ones I remember. Yeah.
- [53:21]
Doug
I don't know what whips sites you go to for that, but yeah, so she. I mean, she was a big part of this movement in, you know, trying to kind of check a lot of these petrochemicals that are just everywhere. And there's. There's literally, there's so many regulations that you would hope, like, you know, lead back in the day as an Example, right. Like we found out that this. Everybody's IQ is dropping like a few points and then.
- [53:48]
Adam Schafer
And crime went down, crime went down, took out lead.
- [53:50]
Doug
So there's all benefits. Once we started removing that, you know, from, from gas and from like toys and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, why wouldn't we look at like all these other chemicals that are literally in your everyday life and are not beneficial to you in fact are harming. She actually took a bunch. Her experiment in this was with couples infertility, which I thought was. It was really interesting to watch. Like it was like maybe six or seven different couples and they couldn't, you know, conceive. And so they were literally trying out like to live a life without any of this exposure and everyday contact with. What did that look phthalates.
- [54:33]
Adam Schafer
It.
- [54:34]
Doug
It was. They just had to literally replace everything. Like there's a lot of companies out now that actually are trying really hard like clothing wise with you know, drinking bottles, like everything else, like to, to start removing a lot of the plastics and, and a lot of these phates. But so what was cool though was. And it was really like oh man. Tugged on your heart a bit because like they give their story of how many times they've tried. There's been like 10 years for you know, some of these couples. And then, and then you see them going through a year of this process and it was like, I think maybe five out of the seven couples or whatever, like we're able to have a kid.
- [55:12]
Adam Schafer
Wow.
- [55:13]
Doug
And it was remarkable. And you're like, wow, this is crazy. But then of course, you know, there's, you know, there were some stipulations with the other ones why it didn't work for them.
- [55:23]
Adam Schafer
But like 5 out of 7 is not bad for people who are infertile or having this.
- [55:26]
Doug
Yes, it was pretty remarkable. But it just made me think about that like how, how crazy like inundated we are.
- [55:34]
Sal Destefano
Clothes, bed sheets, medicine, things we drink from medicine. Yeah. I was gonna say what are, what do you think are the. Probably the top five.
- [55:40]
Adam Schafer
You know. You got it. Here's the deal. With petrochemicals, you can directly.
- [55:45]
Doug
Pills everything.
- [55:46]
Adam Schafer
You can directly connect the use of petroleum and petroleum based chemicals and the growth of the world's population. They are directly related.
- [55:57]
Doug
Sure.
- [55:57]
Adam Schafer
And we're so dependent on them that this is a way bigger problem than. Yeah, we got to get rid of them.
- [56:06]
Sal Destefano
So. So my point is though, like if someone was trying to, to like minimize their exposure, would. What would be the first Five things that you.
- [56:16]
Adam Schafer
Your house would be wood, glass, aluminum. Aluminum. You have all cotton.
- [56:22]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah, but that's unrealistic, Sal. So go back to what I'm saying. Like you're gonna. Look, the things are, I think of you lay in your bed for eight hours, right? So that's got to be one of the places you drink out of a bottle or something like that. So probably avoiding plastic cosmetics is a big one.
- [56:37]
Doug
Yep.
- [56:37]
Sal Destefano
Cosmetics, big one.
- [56:38]
Adam Schafer
Okay, Beauty products.
- [56:40]
Sal Destefano
What do you got for top five, Doug?
- [56:42]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, major sources. Soft vinyl toys, vinyl flooring, cosmetics.
- [56:47]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, but that's what that. Okay, so that's air fresheners. Phthalates are commonly found. That's what they're found in. I would think of like. Like my son's toys aren't affecting me as much. Like what. What's affecting each individual. Like, unless he's. He's sucking on it. Put it on your mouth. I know.
- [57:02]
Doug
You think even pvc, like the drinking water and all that, you got to replace the like copper and. Yeah, it's there. It's just there's so many things that's like.
- [57:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [57:12]
Doug
Where do you start? She kind of outlines like a good outline for that.
- [57:15]
Adam Schafer
You absorb it through skin. So it's not like you, you know, you play with it. The toy, like.
- [57:20]
Sal Destefano
I know, but. Okay, but so then something on your skin, like I said, like sheets or something like that all night long would be something more than something you just touch for five minutes. Right?
- [57:28]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Cosmetics, I'd say, is probably one of the worst. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah. Because you're literally putting it on your skin all day long.
- [57:34]
Sal Destefano
I would think drinking. Drinking out of a water bottle too would probably be.
- [57:38]
Adam Schafer
Well, that's the microplastics, which is. Which is a really big one.
- [57:40]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [57:41]
Adam Schafer
Did you see that?
- [57:41]
Sal Destefano
Oh, that doesn't fall in the same category.
- [57:44]
Adam Schafer
So nanoplastics. I don't care what kind of plastic it is. Nanoplastics just get stored in your. Your organs. So it could be. It could be phthalate free nanoplastics, but it doesn't matter. They accumulate. Yeah, there was that one, right? That one study with people with Alzheimer's. They found like a teaspoon worth of nanoparticles in their brain.
- [58:02]
Sal Destefano
That's a lot.
- [58:03]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, dude. That's a lot for inside the brain. Yeah, it is like a teaspoon.
- [58:06]
Doug
That's what freaked me out. I started taking psyllium husk as a result of that.
- [58:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah.
- [58:11]
Sal Destefano
Is that a supplement to help with that?
- [58:12]
Adam Schafer
So they we think so. Things that bind. So psyllium husk might help. You know what else they found that helps? Probiotics. Oh yeah. I was saving this for a commercial, but I'll talk about it.
- [58:23]
Doug
There's a freebie there.
- [58:24]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, no, no probiotics. Probiotics are shown to. Because. Because your gut microbiome can get rid of a lot of nano. Nanoplastics. Yeah. And so there are strains of bacteria that do it. Yeah, they actually tested it like specifically.
- [58:37]
Doug
Yeah. And I mean if you look too. Like a lot of it was. I don't know, dude, it. The documentary kind of has its bias. Right. It's like kind of anti capitalist on some level. Right. Because it's trying to really pressure the. The companies responsible. But you start looking at it too like they were misleading the consumer by saying like all these things were recyclable. Which there was this big movement there and then it boosted sales and it lasted for another decade of like really inundating us with more plastic.
- [59:07]
Adam Schafer
You know, it's one of my favorite examples. Even know it's one of my favorite examples of like a. We made. We did. We made a bad, stupid decision. Playgrounds, right? The floor on the playgrounds. What is it made of?
- [59:18]
Doug
Rubber.
- [59:18]
Sal Destefano
The rubber tires, bro, that's rubber shredded.
- [59:21]
Adam Schafer
Just given off all the.
- [59:23]
Sal Destefano
All the high school football fields too.
- [59:25]
Doug
The heat expresses it all off, bro.
- [59:28]
Adam Schafer
We used to play on wood. It was. It was tambar.
- [59:30]
Sal Destefano
All the. All the high school football fields are out of that too.
- [59:34]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. All the Astroturf is the same thing.
- [59:36]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, it's all little, tiny.
- [59:37]
Doug
Hate that cuz you know that sliding
- [59:38]
Sal Destefano
and get so Astroturf. Like that's the. All the high school football fields now that are all nice and pretty and
- [59:44]
Adam Schafer
they're perfect and they don't have to be watered.
- [59:46]
Sal Destefano
That. That what they're using is tiny little particles of recycled rubber beads.
- [59:52]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Doug, look at how much like what kind of chemical exposure. Say chemical exposure from playground flooring. I'd like to see what that says because you can smell it if it's hot.
- [60:05]
Sal Destefano
Oh yeah.
- [60:06]
Adam Schafer
You know, and it's all bouncy. I guess it's safe. But meanwhile my kids getting, you know, feminized or something. I don't know. I do estrogen to my skin. Playground surface. What does that say? Hold on. Made from recycled tire crumb poured in place. Rubber and artificial turf contain toxic chemicals.
- [60:22]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [60:23]
Adam Schafer
Including lead. Oh my God. Wow.
- [60:25]
Doug
Are you serious?
- [60:27]
Adam Schafer
Endocrine disruptors that compose risk to children via inhalation ingestion or skin cut. So no one's going to eat the flooring. Well, I'm sure some kids.
- [60:35]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, well, you think about the kids.
- [60:37]
Adam Schafer
Skin contact and breathing.
- [60:38]
Sal Destefano
They talked about the kids on playing football. Think about you getting tackled and dude, it comes flying up. It's like all these tiny little black dots.
- [60:45]
Doug
I got my eyes and like.
- [60:46]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, always like so for sure that gets ingested and get in your mouth and getting tackled on a football field.
- [60:52]
Adam Schafer
What was wrong? What was wrong with tambark? Why did we switch it out? Is there something wrong with tambar?
- [60:56]
Sal Destefano
I think there money, bro. Money.
- [60:58]
Doug
Yeah, it's.
- [60:59]
Adam Schafer
It can't be recycled, dude.
- [61:01]
Doug
I think the perception of the bounciness of it.
- [61:03]
Sal Destefano
There's billions of tires that just get thrown away. They found a way to reuse a material.
- [61:07]
Adam Schafer
I think Justin's right. I may be wrong. I bet you tanbark is cheaper. But parents like the bouncy safety.
- [61:14]
Sal Destefano
I'll bet that all day long tan bark is not cheaper than the recycled rubber tires.
- [61:18]
Adam Schafer
Use artificial, not artificial turbo.
- [61:21]
Doug
If it's trash.
- [61:23]
Sal Destefano
Exactly.
- [61:23]
Adam Schafer
Trash is r. Is the. I don't know, put down. Say, is the rubberized playground flooring cheaper than tambark? Let's see what that says. I think tambar is cheap. Dude, that's like.
- [61:34]
Doug
No, it's.
- [61:34]
Adam Schafer
It's.
- [61:35]
Sal Destefano
No, it's not.
- [61:35]
Adam Schafer
You don't think so?
- [61:36]
Doug
No.
- [61:36]
Sal Destefano
Have you ever used. You ever put tam bark in your. I mean, I did it for my house. It's not. It's. I mean, it's cheese. It's not like crazy expensive. It's not like laying tile. But it's certainly recycled Tires that are thrown away have to be cheaper.
- [61:49]
Adam Schafer
No, rubber playground flooring is not cheaper than tan bark. Told you. In terms of installation cost.
- [61:55]
Sal Destefano
Doug. Googling, bro.
- [61:56]
Adam Schafer
I don't. Hey, hey. I'm just going to tell you this. I am now typing in exactly.
- [62:01]
Sal Destefano
Exactly what sounds like exactly.
- [62:05]
Adam Schafer
No, no, no, no. Scroll down, scroll down. Okay. Open that. Open that part right there. Tambark wood mulch. Initial cost low. It's the most budget friendly, often costing about $50.
- [62:16]
Sal Destefano
The problem is you have to keep replacing it.
- [62:18]
Adam Schafer
That's. I don't think that's why they did it. I think it's because they thought it was safer to have kids.
- [62:23]
Sal Destefano
I also. Okay. I also want to look up like.
- [62:26]
Doug
Yeah, the port in place was definitely.
- [62:28]
Sal Destefano
I also am curious how we're looking from a retail perspective too. Just because people are charging 6 to $10 doesn't mean that that they're not getting it.
- [62:35]
Doug
If you're looking at cost.
- [62:36]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah, I think you would like what. That doesn't mean that just because we're getting. That's the retail prices right now.
- [62:41]
Adam Schafer
I hope somebody retail for sure is. I would bet money, I'll bet you 50 bucks that the reason why they use the rubber port and stuff or the rubber is because people requested quote, unquote, safer flooring.
- [62:53]
Doug
I think you're right.
- [62:54]
Adam Schafer
Not because it's, it's cheaper, because tambark is cheap as hell. Now, over time, I could see how the rubber stuff might be cheaper because you have to replace it like you do tambar.
- [63:02]
Doug
Well, it's a feature schools like to highlight. Like even mild elementary did that and then they replaced the playgrounds and then as they replace it, they have the rubber coating everywhere. And it looks, it's the perception of. It is definitely like, oh, it's safer this way.
- [63:16]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, see, there you go. Rubber playground flooring is used over Tamburg primarily for superior safety, lower long term maintenance and increased durability. It provides better shock absorption to prevent injuries, does not rot or require annual replacement like wood mulch, and is accessibility friendly. Oh, because you could roll, you could roll in with a wheelchair or something like that. Probably.
- [63:37]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, that's, that's.
- [63:39]
Doug
I didn't even think about that.
- [63:40]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, so. But I think it's this, it's the whole selling it like, oh, look, Timmy could fall down and not, you know, plus we used to throw tam bark, you know, which, you know. Yeah, it's fun.
- [63:51]
Sal Destefano
I find that really interesting because you would think that stuff that is getting thrown away would be much cheaper. Tires. Tires are getting thrown away.
- [64:00]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, you still gotta process it. You still gotta process it and turn it into something else.
- [64:04]
Sal Destefano
No, you had to process the tam bark. That's it. That was a tree before.
- [64:07]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, but tam bark is wood that is cheap and easy to process. It's not like throwing the baby tree machine off of sandbar. Like, what do you use tambar for?
- [64:16]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, but there's, there's, there's like just tires that just get thrown away that nobody.
- [64:20]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, we got to process it, bro. That's why it's so expensive. Yeah, process it and turn it. I'm telling you, it's those whole like, we got to make things safer. Oh, by the way, saves water.
- [64:30]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, I mean, I, I could see that. That's definitely the selling point. I mean, I'm sure that's how they closed everybody on it. I just feel like that it seems like tires that would be given away.
- [64:39]
Adam Schafer
Not to mention. I wonder if the plastic playgrounds do the same thing. Now that I'm thinking about it.
- [64:43]
Sal Destefano
What?
- [64:44]
Adam Schafer
All the playgrounds are plastic. The slides?
- [64:46]
Doug
Yep.
- [64:46]
Adam Schafer
Everything's plastic. Is that doing the same thing?
- [64:49]
Doug
Especially getting in the heat.
- [64:51]
Adam Schafer
Like it's gonna of course express.
- [64:52]
Sal Destefano
And the plastic slide that your kid slides down instead of the old giving up.
- [64:55]
Adam Schafer
That's why I'm like the old metal
- [64:56]
Sal Destefano
one that used to burn you at 2 o' clock in the afternoon.
- [65:00]
Adam Schafer
We got burned. Hey, listen, we might have got burned, but our taints are large.
- [65:03]
Doug
Yeah. We have really wide tanks.
- [65:05]
Adam Schafer
We got big tanks.
- [65:08]
Doug
Big taint energy shout out to.
- [65:09]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Metal slides. Yeah. Bte. I gotta talk about my ketone IQ regimen. It's three a day right now. You guys got to get in.
- [65:17]
Sal Destefano
I'm. No, I'm okay. So I was going to tell you.
- [65:19]
Adam Schafer
Are you sold?
- [65:20]
Sal Destefano
So, yeah, no. What I like is that I can drink my normal caffeine drinks and then I can have the one that's non caffeinated. You still get that like mental clarity, sharpness.
- [65:27]
Adam Schafer
So using it regularly.
- [65:28]
Sal Destefano
I do. Well, I wouldn't say regularly. I'm not, I'm not. I don't think I do anything as regular as you do. Although my supplement regime has been.
- [65:34]
Adam Schafer
I saw you today pouring a bunch of people.
- [65:35]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, no, I've. Ever since that. I've been pretty good with that. I haven't made my ketone that consistent, but I make it when we podcast. So.
- [65:42]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I do it first thing in the morning before our first episode. Then I do it at lunch before our second episode and then I do a third one.
- [65:52]
Doug
You don't do as like a pre
- [65:53]
Adam Schafer
workout before I jump.
- [65:54]
Sal Destefano
So I'm using.
- [65:55]
Adam Schafer
I mean I've tried it before pre workout but I like it for like cognitive stuff.
- [65:59]
Sal Destefano
So I'll tell you how I use it. So we've now done two podcasts basically right now. And then we have a full day left of content shooting. I'll go. I'll take one after this.
- [66:08]
Doug
Yeah, the busy days I'm definitely taking because I.
- [66:10]
Sal Destefano
After about three podcasts or say four or five hours of content. Whether it's podcasting or we're shooting out there. That's where I start to get mental fatigue.
- [66:19]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [66:20]
Sal Destefano
And so I'll. I'll use it now because I've already drank my caffeine early and I'm fine right now. But I know that we've got hours ahead of us.
- [66:27]
Doug
Sharp.
- [66:28]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, I'll Feel sharp.
- [66:29]
Adam Schafer
Doug, when does does this. When this episode released. We still got time before 2 days. 2 days. In 2 days maps push pull legs.
- [66:37]
Doug
Comes out Push, pull legs.
- [66:40]
Sal Destefano
Top five. Justin Coleman. Crowd pleaser.
- [66:42]
Adam Schafer
Men's version, woman's version. Well, yeah.
- [66:44]
Doug
I hope people prove me right.
- [66:46]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah.
- [66:47]
Adam Schafer
It'll be, it'll be fun. And I, I'm excited about this one just because it's a fun program. People want it. So we did it.
- [66:52]
Sal Destefano
And that Wednesday, Cole will be coaching for it for the first three days.
- [66:55]
Adam Schafer
You'll get it for free. Yep. There's a new fatty acid that's making waves. It's called C4. So this isn't fish oil. This is a fatty acid that's found in dairy. But when you consume enough of it, you get incredible benefits. You get better cellular aging, or should I say slower cellular aging. Mitochondrial health, better skin, reduced inflammation. This is the next breakthrough in fatty acid science. If you want to feel better, if you want to have healthier cells, better skin, better sleep, lower inflammation, try out fatty15. Go to fatty15.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump and get 15% off. Back to the show.
- [67:39]
Doug
Our first caller is Kristen from Oklahoma.
- [67:42]
Adam Schafer
Hi, Kristen, how you doing?
- [67:43]
Farren (Caller)
Hi. Thank you for having me on.
- [67:45]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. How can we help you?
- [67:46]
Farren (Caller)
I'm just going to go ahead and get to my question. I clearly did not proofread before I sent it, but okay. I recently stopped working with a personal trainer. I was with her for about three years. I learned a lot, but it was a lot of pressure and stress. I kind of decided it was time to move on. Now I'm trying to navigate moving forward. I meal prep the four days I work. I still have some disordered eating habits such as binging, mostly with sweets, so I did increase my calories to about 1900. I've considered microdosing a GLP1 to see if I could help combat the binge. Eating, mostly sweets, is my biggest issue. I'm currently about 140 pounds and I'm 5 7. I work as a nurse. I have a 4 and a 5 year old. I'm at the point now with my kids getting older that I can work out consistently. I typically allow 30 minutes a day working out. My brother created me an exercise plan that I shoot for about four days a week. I do about a six minute cardio circuit just for heart health. I hit about 8 to 10k steps a day. My current macros are 155 grams of protein, 175 grams of carbs, 64 grams of fat. I would like to gain muscle, but not sure if I'm getting enough time in the gym for that. I was looking into Anabolic for my next program and have been in this program my brother made me for about three months. I'm just looking for overall health at this point, maintaining and being able to gain strength to be the healthiest I can be. I feel like I would be leaps and bound ahead if I was, if it wasn't for the binge eating cycle.
- [69:09]
Sal Destefano
You're way under eating.
- [69:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, let's, let's pause.
- [69:12]
Sal Destefano
Way, way under eating.
- [69:13]
Adam Schafer
But let's pause for a second, Kristen. So I'm going to just, I'm going to sum this all up. You were with a trainer, but you stopped because of the pressure that you, yeah, you meal prep, work out, but you feel like you binge too much on sweets or you're considering a GLP one. You want to get strong and be healthy.
- [69:36]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [69:39]
Adam Schafer
So that's your main thing. But then also you're not making progress or at least the kind of progress you think you want to see. So I need. Yeah, let's get specific. What do we want? Do we want health? Less pressure, get leaner, stronger? Which, which one do we want?
- [69:59]
Farren (Caller)
So obviously I'm like any woman, my husband rolls eyes. But I want, obviously the tone look. But I've kind of realized going through all this process that if I want to have a more muscular look, I obviously need gain muscle and I would have to probably gain some weight with that. So I've kind of decided to shift my mindset and be okay with gaining some weight.
- [70:18]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [70:18]
Farren (Caller)
To get some muscle and then maybe do. I mean, nothing like not an aggressive cut. Because I don't wanna, I wanna be able to eat with my family and, you know, good. I'll be super restrictive.
- [70:30]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [70:31]
Sal Destefano
You're already in an aggressive cut, just so you know.
- [70:33]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [70:34]
Sal Destefano
You going up to 1900 calories would be considered an aggressive cut. For a 5, 7, 140 pound woman who does 8 to 10,000 steps and is training three to four days a week, that's a, that's a massive cut right now. Corinne, who I'm training right now. Okay. Is 106 pounds eating 2700 calories, only getting 8000 steps into it. Okay. She's like, okay, you need way, way more calories now. We work our way up to that.
- [70:59]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [71:00]
Sal Destefano
So it's not like I want you to all of a sudden eat 2700 calories tomorrow. But the reason why Part of one of the reasons why you're binging is because your body is telling you we need more fuel.
- [71:11]
Farren (Caller)
You're.
- [71:11]
Sal Destefano
We need way. And then. And you feel like you're white knuckling it, trying to be good. And then what does it want? It wants. It wants the fastest source of carbohydrates and fuel as possible because you're depriving it.
- [71:22]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [71:22]
Sal Destefano
So if we were in a more balanced, well fed diet, it would also help out with the binging. It would. So instead of going to something like a GLP one and crushing your appetite even more than where you're at, we need to do a proper reverse diet. Focus on getting strong and building muscle, not weigh yourself. Because if you're already in that mindset of I'm okay with a little, like, don't focus on the weight, slowly increase focus on the strength in the gym and feeling good. And that's where our mindset should be. And to get our calories significantly up, like, I would want you to be all eventually get up to 2,700plus calories to be able to come back down to, say, 2200 calories. And that's an aggressive cut. And you lean out and you're more fed than you are now.
- [72:08]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, I obviously don't have any problem eating a lot of food or a lot of protein. My biggest fear was if I were to increase my calories, I would still have those habits and then I would just be eating I don't know how many calories, you know, at that point.
- [72:20]
Adam Schafer
No, no, but let's. Let's pause here for a second because Adam just gave you all the right answers. But I have a feeling you knew that.
- [72:26]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, I kind of. I knew that's where it's going. I'm just scared to do it right.
- [72:31]
Adam Schafer
So we got to speak to that. So. Because I don't think you need the answers. I think you know the answers.
- [72:36]
Farren (Caller)
I just. Yeah, I mean, I just wanted some reassurance, I guess, that to increase the calories that high, but I'm just scared that I'll be like, oh, there's the chocolate cake, and I want to eat half of it. You know what I mean? And then I'm eating like 3,500 calories.
- [72:48]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, let's talk about that. Because you're like, I want to get stronger and build muscle, but I want to microdose with GLP1. Do you?
- [72:53]
Farren (Caller)
I know, it's like an oxymoron.
- [72:54]
Adam Schafer
Well, not just that, but do you see the conflict that's happening there. So let's speak to that for a second. Okay. You want to build muscle because you know that's the right answer.
- [73:05]
Farren (Caller)
Yes.
- [73:05]
Adam Schafer
Okay. But. But you're scared.
- [73:08]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [73:08]
Adam Schafer
Because you feel like you're gonna go off the rails.
- [73:11]
Farren (Caller)
Yes.
- [73:12]
Adam Schafer
Okay. Okay. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna help you here. Okay. Because you're probably not gonna go off the rails. Yeah, you might a little bit at first, because you might be. And correct me if I'm wrong, Kristen, but you might be the kind of person that keeps yourself in check with lots of pressure and shame.
- [73:31]
Farren (Caller)
Probably. Yeah. Because I feel guilty about it. Then I'm like, oh, I'm not going to eat as much tomorrow. And then I just eat the same amount of food.
- [73:36]
Adam Schafer
And so that's been your M.O. for a little while. And so what happens is you're like, if I let go of that, what's going to happen?
- [73:43]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [73:43]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. So I'll tell you what's going to happen. You might go off a little bit, you might test it a little bit, but then you're going to find that it's actually quite freeing. And what you. And part of the reason why you binge. There's the physiological reason, which is what Adam said, and we'll get there. But the other part of the reason why you binge is because if you live in that place where you're putting a lot of prep, like, you got kids. Right.
- [74:06]
Sal Destefano
You're tyrannizing.
- [74:07]
Adam Schafer
Okay. So. And your kids. Your kids are young, I'm assuming.
- [74:10]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah. They're four and five.
- [74:11]
Adam Schafer
Okay. But you've been around teenagers.
- [74:13]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [74:13]
Adam Schafer
Okay. And you're pretty young. Remember when you were a teenager?
- [74:16]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [74:16]
Adam Schafer
What happens when mom and dad put so much pressure on you? What do you do at some point? Or what do you want to do at some point? You want to what? You want to rebel?
- [74:25]
Farren (Caller)
Yes.
- [74:25]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. So what you're doing is you're rebelling against your own pressure. That's what the binge. That's part of the reason why you're binging is it's a release of pressure. It's like, oh, God, I live under this tyranny all the time. Let me just let go for a second. And then you do, and then. Oh, right back on the pressure.
- [74:40]
Farren (Caller)
No, no, that's truly how I feel. I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm just eating all this. And I was like, I know I'm gonna regret this later.
- [74:45]
Adam Schafer
That's right. That's right.
- [74:46]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [74:46]
Sal Destefano
Then the guilt sets in.
- [74:47]
Adam Schafer
That's Right. So. So part of it is you're. You're physiologically hungry.
- [74:51]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [74:51]
Adam Schafer
And then the other part of it is you got to get out of that. That, like, you got to be okay with. Yeah. You got to stop beating yourself up. Like, you gotta. You gotta stop that. This relationship. If you keep it going, you're always gonna be this way.
- [75:02]
Sal Destefano
Let me also tell you, like, more back to, like, what's happening too. Like, so let's say. Let's say like, to.
- [75:07]
Doug
To.
- [75:07]
Sal Destefano
More to South's point. Like, let's say I was coaching you. First thing I do is I move you up to 22. 22, 2300 calories. And I restraint training three days a week. You're doing great. You're feeling good, feeling strong. And then all of a sudden, you have a day where you. You hit, you do everything, you eat everything normal. And then all of a sudden, you also eat a big bowl of ice cream too. Guess what's gonna happen? Pretty much nothing. You're not gonna put a pound of fat on the next day. You'll probably be holding some water. So psychologically, you'll look in the mirror and go, oh, my God, I can't. No, you didn't. You added 500 calories. 500 calories is not a pound of fat. It's not even a half a pound, not even a quarter of a pound of fat. What you'll probably do is end up fueling our strength training workout the next day. And you're gonna feel strong and have a lot of energy and. And we get right back on the horse and we keep going, and then we try versus. Oh, I can't wait. I did that. And then the next day, trying to restrict more or whatever like that or punish yourself like, so. Yes, that and some of this. This is where I think I feel like a lot of our clients that we work with, this is the hardest. It's like you get, you know, logically what you're supposed to do.
- [76:11]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [76:12]
Sal Destefano
Having somebody who's there who's kind of reminding you, like, I'm just coaching you, it's okay.
- [76:17]
Adam Schafer
And giving you the tools to handle it. If I were to bump your calories, the place I would bump it as fats64 is probably too low.
- [76:24]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [76:25]
Adam Schafer
Your protein's great. Carbs are great. I bet you if you went up to you added 20 grams of fat, maybe a little carbs, get Your calories up, 200 calories, I bet you would feel physiologically better.
- [76:37]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [76:37]
Adam Schafer
And if you have a binge here's what you do. Okay. If you have the binge or that moment or whatever after you're done, this is what you say to yourself. Of course you did that. You're under a lot of pressure. Yeah, of course you did. It's okay. It's all right. We'll try again.
- [76:54]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [76:54]
Adam Schafer
And that's not letting yourself off the hook. Yeah, it's not letting yourself off the hook. What you're doing afterwards, what you're typically probably doing is like, you idiot. That's it. Tomorrow we're going to really clamp down. That's what's causing more of them.
- [77:08]
Farren (Caller)
I know.
- [77:09]
Adam Schafer
So. So you gotta. I don't want you to say what I'm saying because it's not natural. You're gonna feel like it's silly and awkward, but you literally say out loud by yourself. You can even write it down. That's another way you can do it. Be like, of course you did this.
- [77:24]
Farren (Caller)
Yes.
- [77:24]
Adam Schafer
Under a lot of pressure. You got kids, you got a job, and I just beat you up all the time. And so, of course you wanted to escape a little bit. I totally get it. We're just gonna try again. You got to say that to yourself. Bump the calories. Do what I said. I think Maps Anabolic will be a great program for you. Yeah.
- [77:40]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [77:41]
Adam Schafer
And. And. And I think you're going to get great results.
- [77:43]
Sal Destefano
Follow it the way it's laid out.
- [77:45]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [77:46]
Sal Destefano
More is not better. If you do anything else.
- [77:50]
Adam Schafer
Walk. That's it.
- [77:51]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. You want. You want to do more stuff? You want to be active or. I'm all pro walking. That's good.
- [77:55]
Adam Schafer
That's it.
- [77:56]
Sal Destefano
But follow the program the way it's laid out.
- [77:58]
Adam Schafer
And then.
- [77:58]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [77:59]
Adam Schafer
And then here's the other thing. I'll just ask you a couple questions before I give you this advice. How's your husband with all this? Does he. Does he tell you look good? Is he encouraging?
- [78:06]
Farren (Caller)
Oh, yeah. And I feel like I look great. Like, I have no concerns about how I look. It's. I feel like a lot of it is mental. Like, I read the Dopamine Nation. I was like, I have to figure this out. Like, why am I doing this? But he's super supportive. He's like, stop. Just enjoy it. I'm like, I'm just going to feel guilty the next day.
- [78:23]
Adam Schafer
So. So, okay, you got your husband. You love him. You trust them. Your father, your children. I want you to lean on him a little bit. And then this is what you tell them. Hey, honey, I need your encouragement. And if you feel like I need to rein things in. I want you to gently talk to me about it because I'm not going to trust myself because I don't. I don't think I'm trustworthy with this for myself.
- [78:41]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah.
- [78:41]
Adam Schafer
And lean on him a little bit. But. But I'd go up in fat map Anabolic. You're going to be totally fine. But.
- [78:47]
Farren (Caller)
Okay. And you think like 200 calories a week just increase.
- [78:52]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [78:52]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [78:53]
Farren (Caller)
And see how I do.
- [78:54]
Adam Schafer
Oh, you could go higher than that, but we'll start there. Yeah.
- [78:56]
Farren (Caller)
Okay. Okay.
- [78:57]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [78:58]
Sal Destefano
Christian, have you, do you, do you know that we have coaches that do this too? Do you know that? Are you aware of that?
- [79:02]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, I just, I had a good coach, but she doesn't have children and I feel like I was kind of like running in the ground and if it's going to take time away from my kids, then I'm not doing it, to be honest. So.
- [79:13]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, you don't need another Christian training you. You need something different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if you're open, we have coaches and I have.
- [79:21]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [79:21]
Adam Schafer
I think would work well with what you're. What you probably need.
- [79:25]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [79:25]
Adam Schafer
If you want, I can have somebody reach out and call you.
- [79:28]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah. I mean I would love to talk to somebody. Any more support I could get.
- [79:31]
Sal Destefano
So it's only, it's, it's only a single call a month virtually. That's it. It's. And they.
- [79:35]
Farren (Caller)
Oh yeah, that's super low key. I was doing like weekly check ins.
- [79:38]
Kristen (Caller)
Oh, yeah.
- [79:38]
Sal Destefano
No, no, no, no. It's. You'll get, you'll get plans sent to you and they're really, their goal is to guide you and then that once a week when you guys get on the phone, check up on how the month went, the adjustments and so it's. Yeah, no, we're. We really try and empower our clients to do this stuff and we don't need to be talking to you every single week. You'll get stuff that you can open up and read and valuable to you, but there's not this like accountability. You need to do this every day
- [80:03]
Adam Schafer
type of deal yourself, measure yourself. Yeah, yeah.
- [80:05]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [80:06]
Sal Destefano
So we'll have someone call you and they can tell you this, but that what Sal laid out for you. And we'll send you maps, Anabolic. That's the plan if you follow. If you find yourself wanting more guidance and then, and then get with one of the coaches. They'll take good care of you.
- [80:17]
Farren (Caller)
Okay. Well, thank you guys so much. It was nice to meet you. I enjoy your podcast.
- [80:21]
Adam Schafer
Thank you.
- [80:22]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [80:22]
Adam Schafer
Record Common. Very, very common. Yeah. Situation. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, self tyranny. Oh, yeah. Everybody does it. Yeah, everybody does it. And when you do it for so long, you're like, if I don't do this, what's gonna happen?
- [80:35]
Doug
Oh, my God.
- [80:35]
Adam Schafer
Oh, my God. I'm gonna go in the other direction. Yeah. When. When the reality is the reason why you have these little breaks of whatever you want to call discipline or is because you're trying to escape.
- [80:46]
Doug
You're clamping down so hard.
- [80:47]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, dude. It's like, I need to get away from this. You know, it's like a relief.
- [80:50]
Sal Destefano
I mean, 5, 7, 140 pounds is good weight.
- [80:52]
Adam Schafer
No, she's fit, dude.
- [80:53]
Sal Destefano
Yes, she is. She. If she, she just wants to lean tone, you know what? Like, she used. She needs to build muscle and she ain't building. And she just went up to 1900, which tells me she was probably at 65.
- [81:04]
Doug
Real low.
- [81:05]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah. And. And that much activity. Yeah. And then that. And then you're already doing the whole, you know, restricting on yourself and tyrannizing yourself and. But you're. What you're feeling is that your body needs it.
- [81:18]
Adam Schafer
And the other part that when you speak to is this GLP1 situation where there are definitely situations where it's valuable and then there's situations where I don't think it's appropriate. This is one of them. No, no, it's not appropriate. And it may give short term success, but it is not going to solve the root issues.
- [81:36]
Sal Destefano
No. I mean, you could take a GLP1 and drop down to 130 pounds and eat 1100 calories a day. That's what it would do. If someone who's only eating 1900 takes a GLP one, she'll be lucky to eat 1100 calories.
- [81:47]
Doug
Yeah.
- [81:47]
Sal Destefano
And she'll drop 5 to 10 pounds, but she'll lose almost all muscle. Terrible.
- [81:51]
Adam Schafer
Good. Yeah. Our next caller is Adam from California. What's up, man? How you doing?
- [81:56]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
Hey, thanks for having me on, guys. I. I feel like I'm obligated to glaze you boys.
- [82:03]
Sal Destefano
Go. Go ahead, brother. Go ahead.
- [82:06]
Doug
Let me get ready.
- [82:06]
Sal Destefano
I know you guys hear it all
- [82:07]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
the time, but as somebody who has been in business a long time now, like, I truly do believe, like, what you guys do is the highest form of entrepreneurship and really helping people solve, like, what are maybe the most serious problems. Right. And so just kudos to you, man. You deserve all your success. And, you know I pray for nothing but success for you guys in the future as well. And then PSA to anybody that's listening. Like, you know, these guys know what they're talking about. I, I was skeptical. I went to, I finally got to a point where I was like, you know, I'm just gonna prioritize protein. I'm just gonna hit my 200 grams of protein every day. I'm gonna see what that does. And like, literally every aspect of my life is better. Like dropping fat feeling. I feel amazing. I usually, you know, I go to bed, I'm sore. I've been, I've been usually just after a long walk through my hilly neighborhood with the dogs and my legs are killing me and I wake up every morning like I've been on vacation for a week. Like I feel amazing.
- [83:11]
Adam Schafer
That's great.
- [83:13]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
And so just appreciate you guys. My question's not so much about me. I feel like I'm doing great. And it's about my son Ethan. He is going to be 14 here in July. You know, he's, he, I was an athlete. He's an athlete. My daughter's an athlete. He focuses on baseball and he's a very skilled player. He's, he's a late, I was a late bloomer. Developmentally, we think he's just started puberty, like right now. So this is actually the first year. He's on a pretty good travel program right now. It's the first year baseball has been hard for him. Like we're facing kids that 612 inches taller than him. Geez, on Sunday we faced a 280 pound kid that was an hour crazy. And his plan was, because he's a young eighth grader right now, his plan was to do a hold back year. And he's such a social guy that as we got closer to having to make that decision, he was, he was like, you know, I'm going to go to high school next year. I don't want to, I don't want to be away from my friends. And so we kind of turned our focus to, all right, man, you got to get more athletic, you got to get stronger and, and you kind of got to get after it, right? And he was down to do that. And so let me tell you what we got him doing right now. We got him. He's 5, 4, 155 pounds. He's, he's, he's got some pudge on him, some baby fat and things like that that he's working through. He definitely needs to get stronger, faster, leaner. More agile, just more athletic in general to be able to compete in high school next year. And he's, he's getting after it. So right now we've got him at a. Our target is 150 grams of protein a day. So that may be a little high. That may be, you know, right around the ballpark. He's doing a, you know, for speed, he's doing hill sprints a few days a week. He obviously practices all the time. And then for strength, I've got him focused, like, trying to keep it simple. He's doing farmer carries. Everything he's doing twice a week, farmer carries. He's doing deadlifts for chest. He's doing, you know, one day we're doing flat bench. The next, the next chest workout, we're doing incline dumbbell press.
- [85:30]
Adam Schafer
We.
- [85:31]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
I've got him doing front raises for shoulders. I do have him doing military press. The shoulder stuff. We're doing like once a week because he throws so much for baseball. And then. Yeah, I'm just, I'm looking for, for guidance from you. I would say that his. I'm feeding him a lot of lean cuts right now. And so I, I am worried that he's underfeeding. He's probably between 1700 and 1900 calories every day. And I'm wondering if, if we should boost that up by giving him fattier cuts of meat primarily. And then, you know, my thought is because he's young, he's able to recover so quickly that as long as we keep the weight relatively light and focus on his form, that he should be able to clean crush volume, he should be recovering pretty quickly. But again, you know, I, I didn't start lifting until, you know, I started playing football in high school. It was a, it was a different world. That was a ton of volume, a ton of, you know, just heavy lifting. My focus right now, one is everything we do, I want to make sure it's safe. I don't want to cause any problems for him, of course. And then two, you know, I want to maximize, you know, his ability to, to get more athletic and be able to compete with confidence as he kind of reaches the next stage of his athletic career. So I want to hear you guys out. I know you guys are all athletes. Justin, I know you fellow fellow college football player, would love to hear your perspectives.
- [87:03]
Adam Schafer
That's really good. So there's really good data now that we didn't have back in the day on young athletes and what contributes to their performance later on the most. It's really really good data. But before I talk about that, is he enjoying all this stuff?
- [87:19]
Sal Destefano
He is.
- [87:20]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
He's really getting into it, man. Like his YouTube algorithm. Now, when I check it, it's all fitness stuff, it's all exercise stuff.
- [87:27]
Adam Schafer
It's rad because that's number one. Number one. He's so young, you know, you want to make sure he. He's developing a good relationship with it. He likes it. Otherwise, you'll run into the, like, you know, scenario where the kid gets pushed, and then later on, they're like, I don't want to do this anymore type of deal. The second thing, and this is the most important thing to focus on with a young athlete, especially one whose body is going to be changing rapidly. Is body awareness and kinesthetic ability more important than anything? Because. So the brain is extremely plastic at younger ages. So a good example of this is, like, learning new languages. Like, if you and I learn a new language right now, no matter how well we learn it, we're always going to have an American accent, no matter what. But you teach a kid 4 different languages when they're young, they'll be able to speak all four of them as adults fluently. And that's because the brain has an ability when you're younger that you essentially lose when you're older. It's this plasticity. And this also extends to body awareness and kinesthetic ability. So what you learn when you're younger with body awareness will last and improve your athletic performance later. So here's what the data shows. Let's say you got a kid that's really gifted at baseball, okay? And let's say we could, like, duplicate that kid. And on one end, we take them and we just focus on baseball because they're good at it. And that's where we place all of our time and energy. And then they get to college, and then. And then they, you know, play at that level. Let's say, on the other hand, we take this kid who loves baseball. He still plays baseball, but we also have him run, do gymnastics, do swimming, soccer, play golf, soccer. So he's just doing a lot of different things up until he's probably a sophomore in high school. Then he focuses on baseball. He's gonna be better at baseball than the kid that focused all his time on baseball because of that general body awareness, okay? So that's the most. It's even more important than getting him strong at a particular lift. It's more important than anything. So variety is the name of the game when it comes to Your kid not getting him hurt. Very, very important. As long as he loves it, it's great. Strength training is good for that. And his body on top of that is changing so rapidly that body awareness becomes even more important because let's say he's really good at, you know, throwing a baseball right now and then in three months he gains an inch in height, which could totally happen. His body's totally different now. Now his mechanics are off and it's going to be weird. It's like when you see a puppy grow real quick or kind of awkward.
- [89:55]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
And we've seen that, we've seen that he's grown an inch in the last two months and you know, he, he does pitch and his control has suffered through that process. So it makes a lot of sense.
- [90:06]
Adam Schafer
So it's all about body awareness and variety. I love the carries. You know, the traditional exercise are good too, but have him do lots of different things and get used to his body. Bodyweight movements seem to be better at low suspension trainer so like what they call closed chain movements. So like bench press is great. Push ups might be better. Overhead press is good. Shoulder, you know, handstand push ups might be better. So that, so you want to kind of look at that kind of stuff. Suspension trainer is great. Gymnastic style exercises are good and kind of like these, these like, like full
- [90:41]
Doug
body type movements, multiplaneer type stuff for sure. And honestly, you know, going through this with that type of a, an age range for me, like exposing them. If the compound lifts, it's got to be very minimal and hyperfocused. So you know, their mechanics are everything with that. So you know, like our 15 programs, I was thinking like performance 15, you know, just taking that sort of protocol. But then you know, the days in between where he does his skill sessions and he's working on speed. One thing that's the, one of the most important skills of basically any athlete is to, is speed. Speed is going to carry them so much further than, than most attributes. And you get speed by getting strong and then, you know, we apply acceleration to that. And so to be able to have, you know, the ability to body control, you know, move in different planes, you know, get exposure to all those variables like Sal's talking about. It's like super important. So you know, but light doses of compound lifts to really build up that baseline strength is going to be really important. But like mistake I made and mistake a lot of athletes I've worked with make are, they overdo that and they, they do really long sessions. They do Hour long to two hour long or they do it like four or five times a week. I would reduce that down to like maybe two to three but like only two to three like compound lifts on those days, two exercises on those days and that's it. So It'd be like a 15 protocol but just like twice a week and then the rest of it is all just you know, field work and speed work. So that, I mean that would be my suggestion.
- [92:17]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, I'd send over Maps 15 performance
- [92:19]
Adam Schafer
to him and then you can use those.
- [92:21]
Sal Destefano
First of all does he play, does he, is he in other sports too? Or is it just baseball he's into?
- [92:25]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
You know he was, he played basketball and soccer and then you know, once he was done with his 12 year old seasons he really just wanted to focus on baseball.
- [92:34]
Doug
Yeah.
- [92:35]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
So it was kind of his call. We kind of pushed him to do other things and, and try to get him into fly. He's going to be huge. Right. So I'm like, you know football is always there but you know he just, he loves baseball and that's what he wants to focus on.
- [92:48]
Sal Destefano
We did a really cool interview years ago. It was Chad Wesley Smith.
- [92:54]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [92:55]
Sal Destefano
You'd love it.
- [92:55]
Adam Schafer
It's all about like talks about this.
- [92:57]
Sal Destefano
We, we, we go into deep. The whole thing is about childhood like sports and sports development from beginning to end all the way to the professional level. What the ideal kind of programming and volume and all that looks like really, really good. I'll have Doug look up what episode number it is and I'll give it to you. Awesome. You'll, you'll enjoy that conversation. But the guys are right like the, the, the amount of like strength training, like traditional deadlift squatting like movements like that is actually pretty minimal. And you're doing your mindset is right like mechanics is ever like just teaching him good form and strength and if he gets a little bit stronger in it great. But just don't fool yourself because he's so young and can recover well doesn't mean we want to do bunch more with him. As far as strength training is concerned. He'd be far better off doing speed agility type of work and multi planner stuff and working on being quicker and picking up a basketball still and playing basketball like those things will serve him in baseball actually even more than hyper focusing on that. And Chad Wesley Smith goes through this. You do start to hyper focus but not till later in his career. Early on diversity wins, diversity in sports, diversity in his movement patterns. And that is like that's a Lot of what you want going on. More of that, the better.
- [94:15]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
You.
- [94:16]
Sal Destefano
We didn't touch this, but you were. I think you're already alluding to the right thing with his diet.
- [94:20]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [94:20]
Sal Destefano
Definitely bump fattier meats. Like, he. For sure. He for sure could handle more calories. And I would put. And that's an easy way to do it. Let him enjoy tri tip and ribeyes and. And go. Go that, you know, chicken thighs. Go that direction for sure. For more calories and higher fat. But yeah. 9:52 is the episode.
- [94:41]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [94:41]
Sal Destefano
So episode nine. Wow. Is that long ago? It's crazy.
- [94:43]
Doug
Yeah, definitely after like sophomore year, like, really start, like increasing that intensity and like adding that baseline foundation strength with compound list will be. Will be great.
- [94:52]
Adam Schafer
So three sports that are really good at kind of full body awareness and kinesthetic ability would be like wrestling. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is another one. Rock climbing is another one. And so. And now this wouldn't be where he would spend his time, like, really trying to be the best. It would be fun.
- [95:12]
Farren (Caller)
Sure.
- [95:13]
Adam Schafer
So wrestling might be difficult because if he goes and wrestles in school, you know, wrestling coaches are pretty damn intense. So that's a difficult one. But if, like Jiu Jitsu, he might go to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu once or twice a week. That's really good for body awareness.
- [95:27]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
He's shown interest in that stuff. I think. I think that's. That's a great idea and something that we can offer. Perfect for him.
- [95:33]
Adam Schafer
Perfect. So that would be great, right? Because it's great for body awareness.
- [95:36]
Doug
Yeah.
- [95:36]
Adam Schafer
It's athletic. It's different than baseball. You got to learn how to move and use your body differently. It's very similar to wrestling.
- [95:43]
Sal Destefano
A lot of hip power and rotation stuff too.
- [95:45]
Adam Schafer
It's just really. It's the body awareness, dude, that's everything. And then. And then rock climbing is the other one is if, like, hey, you want to have fun, you want to try doing some rock climbing or whatever. But if he's interested in Jiu Jitsu, I bet you, you know. You know, I don't know how much. How much practice he's doing with baseball, but like one or two days a week of Jiu Jitsu would just make him a better athlete. Yeah.
- [96:01]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
Awesome.
- [96:01]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [96:02]
Sal Destefano
You're doing good though, bro.
- [96:03]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [96:04]
Sal Destefano
A lot of it. But we'll send over the.
- [96:06]
Adam Schafer
The 15 performance.
- [96:07]
Sal Destefano
15 performance. So you got that? Listen to that episode 952.
- [96:11]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
952.
- [96:12]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. 9:52. Chad Wesley Smith. And then. And then. Yeah, I Think literally like if you could get him in jiu jitsu once or twice a week would be rad.
- [96:20]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [96:21]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [96:22]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
Awesome, guys. Appreciate you so much, man. Thanks, guys.
- [96:26]
Adam Schafer
Thank you. Yep. That was a long time ago, that episode.
- [96:30]
Doug
Yeah.
- [96:31]
Adam Schafer
First of all, when I talk about it makes perfect sense, but I didn't think that. Yeah. So when he said that to me, it was like, you know, it's like one of those moments a light bulb goes off, like. Of course.
- [96:39]
Doug
Well, yeah, of course.
- [96:39]
Adam Schafer
That's the best thing.
- [96:40]
Doug
It's funny, I just thought of him because I was kind of constructing a bit. A bit of a plan for some, some athletes, student athletes at my son's school. And you know, Chad Wesley Smith actually got involved I think in his kids school. He's like the head coach for their football team and they're just crushing.
- [96:58]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [96:58]
Doug
They're like, oh, wow. Breaking records and everything. And he implemented like his entire protocol and workouts.
- [97:04]
Sal Destefano
I wonder. I was wondering what he's been up to. We haven't talked to him in a long time.
- [97:07]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [97:07]
Doug
I mean I have a juggernaut training, which is a great.
- [97:10]
Sal Destefano
So he still does that.
- [97:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [97:11]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [97:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [97:12]
Sal Destefano
I hadn't popped up in my feed in a long time. I wasn't sure if they were still, still doing it.
- [97:15]
Adam Schafer
It's so counterintuitive, right. You think, oh, my kid's gifted. I'm just going to focus all time and it's just not how the brain.
- [97:22]
Sal Destefano
Well, and you hear examples of this, right. It's like you have, you know, a Tiger woods, you know, who's three years
- [97:29]
Adam Schafer
old, he's focused on.
- [97:30]
Sal Destefano
And he's focused his whole life on that and he becomes this one of the best golfers ever. So it seems logical, like, oh, of course, the more time I spend doing this, the better I'm going to be. But when he breaks it down and this is our. Where our trainer brains goes like.
- [97:44]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
Of course.
- [97:46]
Adam Schafer
And also you want. Studies are good because it's. They're looking at large sample sizes, general performance, what seems to work best. Because obviously Tiger Woods, Serena Williams and her sister, those are like phenoms.
- [97:59]
Doug
Yeah. I mean Tiger woods even had to change his entire swing. Well, because of the. Yeah. Repetitive overuse injury.
- [98:05]
Sal Destefano
Well, and. And who knows what if, like. Because what we see right now in professional sports is what is this playing out? Like a classic example is Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes was a superstar baseball player and football player. And if you watch the way he can, he can contort his body and throw the ball like nobody before him has been able to. And so you're starting to see these kids that are, that grew up understanding this philosophy gives them an edge and they have a total edge. And so it's, it's evolving sports. But we, we talk about players like Tiger woods, like Michael Jordan. This science hadn't came up yet. And so it was like it so knows how much better, exactly how much better would Michael Jordan have been or how much better would Tiger woods have been if he actually diversified that younger, you know what I'm saying? But still kept playing golf but diversified it more. Who knows, he might even been in better what he was.
- [98:57]
Doug
Our next caller is Brandon from Oregon.
- [98:59]
Adam Schafer
Brandon, what's up dude? What's happening?
- [99:01]
Kristen (Caller)
Hey guys, how's it going?
- [99:02]
Adam Schafer
Good. How can we help you? Well, I'll, I guess what I'll do
- [99:06]
Kristen (Caller)
is I'll probably just read by question that I sent in because if I don't, I'll either miss some details or I'll get long winded and talk forever. So I sent it. I said, hey guys, I'm looking for some guidance and clarification on my training and nutrition. I'm currently 34 years old, 6 foot and I'm about 215 pounds. I don't know my exact body weight or body fat percentage, likely mid 20s, but my goal is to get down around 15%. For context, I've been lifting since I was about 14. I've mostly followed the traditional body building or bro split where I'm doing, you know, one muscle group per day, five to six days a week. As I've gotten older, I've started to feel like this amount of volume might be too much. And mentally I started to struggle dialing it in or dialing it back as I feel like I'm not doing enough on a daily basis. I worked with a virtual coach for about 18 months and made solid progress going from about £230 down to 200. While, while I was improving my body composition, I was lifting very high volume. Six to days, six days a week, eight to nine exercises per session, usually four sets each muscle or four sets each lift. And I was doing 30 to 40 minutes of incline treadmill walking. I was eating around 2,400 calories a day, extremely high protein at about two hundred and eighty grams of protein a day, 64 grams of fat and 180 grams of carbs. After about a year I burnt out. I struggled with adherence, especially with nutrition at night. I eventually fell off the plan. I've always had difficulty sticking to strict nutrition and tend to look for instant results. I struggle with body dysmorphia and being overly hard on myself, which makes consistency challenging. This has been my biggest hurdle for as long as I can remember. I never give myself enough credit and I'm probably the most impatient person I know. All this, combined with an intense sweet tooth and bad habit of binge eating junk food in the evenings, especially ice cream, has made it incredibly hard for me to be where I'd like to be. I struggle with all or nothing mentality where I feel like I have to be perfect or I'm failing. So when I fall off the meal plan for even one meal or a day, I tend to derail completely. Going back to my previous nutrition plan, I wondered if my calories were too low and not balanced well enough, specifically my protein. I've also questioned whether under eating for my training volume contributed to burnout and nighttime overeating, or if this is more of a mental thing. My mind tells me that it's a mental thing because it tends to be my sweet tooth that gets me in trouble in the evenings. Right now I'm coming off of a hernia repair which is getting, you know, it's, it's put me out of lifting for about a month, which I do feel like maybe has given me an opportunity to reset and rebuild smarter. Looking ahead, I'm hoping to join my local police department, hopefully where I'll soon be working 12 hour shifts that'll make gym sessions difficult, so I'd like to transition to more sustainable plan, ideally lifting four days a week with a good balance of strength training and mobility. In the past, I've really enjoyed lifting heavy, especially squats, deadlifts and benchmarks. However, my lack of recovery and mobility I believe has hindered my progress and led to some persistent tightness and discomfort throughout my body. I truly believe that was because I didn't and still don't do much mobility work in my routine. So my main question is, while I do focus mostly on whole foods and hitting a protein target, I'd like to know what you guys recommend my caloric intake be regarding my training volume or an appropriate training volume I should say. And I have not. I mean, I've listened to you guys for about six months, maybe a little more than that, and I've been a ton of episodes. I've heard all about all your guys's maps program, but I have not actually purchased one yet because I was like, I don't know exactly which program would be ideal for me Specifically. So I was hoping maybe some guidance on that. Something that maybe balances strength and mobility recovery and just, you know, long term sustainability for me.
- [103:48]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, let's, let's talk a little bit first about your 280 grams of protein and only 60 grams of fat. You must be eating tilapia or tuna and chicken breasts and ground lean turkey. Is that, but is that the diet or what?
- [104:04]
Kristen (Caller)
Pretty much. And I think that that's part of the reason why I struggled to adhere to it after a while. Boring.
- [104:11]
Sal Destefano
Yes.
- [104:13]
Kristen (Caller)
And I was like, I tried to spice it up, but you know, it's,
- [104:15]
Sal Destefano
it's hard to do that A chicken thighs. Have some chicken thighs. Have some rib, have some rib eyes. Enjoy a tri tip every now.
- [104:24]
Adam Schafer
Your protein would be better if you brought it down like 230, added 50 grams of carbs, and then added like 30 grams of fat. Your calories need to be up higher too. You should be up to like 27, 2800. Your intuition is on point, by the way. Everything that you're feeling is because you've been over trained and underfed and that includes your lack of mobility. It's not that you need to do more, it's your body stiff and overtrained. Yeah.
- [104:49]
Kristen (Caller)
Yeah.
- [104:50]
Adam Schafer
So, yeah. So training wise, very easy maps. Anabolic would be a great place to go bump your calories. Your protein's really high. It doesn't need to be that high. 220 grams. 230 grams would be plenty. Yeah.
- [105:02]
Kristen (Caller)
I've since dropped it since I was
- [105:04]
Sal Destefano
that if you just, if you just switch the meats out to the higher fat meats, it'll take care of both.
- [105:09]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [105:09]
Sal Destefano
If you literally get rid of the, the ground turkey and the, and the chicken breast and switch for chicken thighs and, and ribeyes or ground beef, it'll bump the calories and it'll lower the, it'll lower the protein, increase the fats.
- [105:22]
Adam Schafer
It's so rare that I find a guy your size who can do well on anything less than 80 grams of fat. It just doesn't work, dude. It feels like crap and it causes binging.
- [105:30]
Kristen (Caller)
Yeah, well, and I, I, I can't say that I've felt great throughout the entire, I mean, there was days and weeks even where I'm like, I feel like I'm just dragging. And I was like, I don't know if that's overall volume in the gym and I'm just overtrained or underfed or accommodating. Both.
- [105:48]
Sal Destefano
And then both.
- [105:49]
Kristen (Caller)
Right? Yeah. And then the more I listen to you guys, I'm like, man, it's got to be, it's got to be a combination of both.
- [105:54]
Adam Schafer
Yep. Bro. You'll feel so different in like two weeks. If you bump your calories and your fats, do maps, anabolic. That's your strength training three days a week. That's it. Nothing else. If you want to walk, if you want to do mobility in between, then go for it and that's it. And your, and your body composition is
- [106:13]
Sal Destefano
going to change and be patient because going through that, your, your body has been used to getting beat up with that much volume and underfed that. So it'll take a second for you to kind of recalibrate. So I always tell somebody when I switch, this is like, if you trust us, trust the process. But that, that is the plan. The plan is a map. Santa Bolog three day a week program. A great program to follow up. That would be performance.
- [106:33]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [106:34]
Sal Destefano
It will address some of your mobility stuff that you're talking about.
- [106:36]
Adam Schafer
Perfect for police academy too.
- [106:38]
Sal Destefano
So a great. It goes maps in a ball, then go to mass performance right after that. And then, and then the calorie, literally the way, like, I wouldn't even overthink the calories, to be honest with you. It would literally be. Cut out all this extra lean meat and just switch it out for higher fat meats. And it'll take care of bumping your calories and take care of your healthier fats and you'll be more satiated and you'll feel better.
- [106:59]
Adam Schafer
Your testosterone will probably go up too.
- [107:01]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, all those things, like, funny you brought that up.
- [107:05]
Kristen (Caller)
So I, I just had my testosterone. My total T was down to 290.
- [107:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [107:10]
Doug
Yeah.
- [107:11]
Adam Schafer
Low fat, that's normal when you're underfed, over trained, not enough fat. And I bet your sleep's probably crappy too, because it's hard to sleep well when you're underfed and over trained. It's probably so. So yeah, your testosterone will, will go way up just from doing those things. Yeah.
- [107:30]
Sal Destefano
I mean that. So that like the things that I'm like if I'm coaching you through this process because it will take a time for your body to recalibrate. It's like, how's your sleep? How's your libido? How's your recovery? And those are our three first markers and then strength. Right. So those are the four things that we're kind of like, like talking about. I'm not really tripping about weight. I'm not even really hyper focusing on calories. It's like, I'm switching out all those lean meats to higher fat meats, letting you enjoy yourself and be fed when you want. And when you're. If you're hungry, go eat, but just make good choices. Eat the, you know, go eat another serving of the ribeye and rice or whatever like that. Just. That's your body probably telling you it needs more fuel because it's trying to build and trying to build strength. And so. But those are the things that we're looking at. We're like, how's libido, how's energy, how's recovery, how strengthen the gym? Let those be your guide. Once you start checking off all those saying, yeah, that feels good. Yeah, that feels good. Yeah, that feels. Then comes the composition. Then all of a sudden, muscle starts packing on, waistline starts coming in. But focus on those four as your guiding principles of, like, what you need to be focused on. And then the other follows right behind that.
- [108:33]
Adam Schafer
If I just. Again, just for the testosterone. Because you're probably like, what the heck, man? You know? But that's the scary thing. If I were to give a man three steps to crush his testosterone, here's what it would look like. Overtrained, under, eat too, low fat, like, guaranteed to destroy your testosterone.
- [108:48]
Sal Destefano
Yep.
- [108:51]
Kristen (Caller)
You're hitting everything on the head. Like, I don't sleep all that well. I mean, some days I go, you know, I'll go a week. I'm doing okay. I track it. And it's usually high 70s, low 80s. So it's like, it's not awful, but it's not optimal. I wake up every night, like at 2:00 clock on the dot, and I'm just awake for like an hour.
- [109:09]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, stress, dude. Yeah. It's too much. Too much. Too much stress on the body with the exercise, not enough eating and not enough fats. Your body's hurting, dude. Here's what you'll notice right out the gates. More energy, better sleep, and you're stronger.
- [109:22]
Sal Destefano
And recovery.
- [109:23]
Adam Schafer
And recovery. And then what Adam's saying, trust. And then stick with it, because then you'll start to see the strength gains and then you'll start to see the body composition change. Yeah, yeah. Which takes a little longer. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
- [109:33]
Sal Destefano
Once all four of those are in line because you're doing all those things, then you'll see, you'll be good, dude. Yeah.
- [109:38]
Kristen (Caller)
Then.
- [109:38]
Sal Destefano
Then it's. Then we'll be rocking and rolling. But just trust the process. It is not a calorie thing, dude. Like, obviously, if you go and eat, like, an like I say and you start binging 4,000 calories, that's not going to serve us. But if you, if you're hungry and you eat and you eat, it's whole natural foods and I don't care if it's a, a fattier cut of meat with a, with a good carbohydrate rice, potato, sweet potato. Yeah, like stuff like that. Go for it, eat it, eat it because you're hungry. That means your body is, it's, it's rebound, it's recovering, it's rebuilding, it's wanting to build muscle. Like you'll be fine and it, but just trust that process.
- [110:10]
Kristen (Caller)
Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, I'll do that.
- [110:12]
Sal Destefano
We'll send over a maps anabolic and then like I said, after Anabolic, follow it up with performance.
- [110:17]
Adam Schafer
Okay, perfect.
- [110:17]
Kristen (Caller)
Guys, I think. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time and, and, and everything you guys do. It's great. Thank you.
- [110:23]
Adam Schafer
You got it, man. All right. I swear, dude, I swear to God, bro. The, the, the ultra low fat sources of protein.
- [110:32]
Sal Destefano
I knew it was like 280 grams with only. Yeah, that is, that is chicken. That is chicken breast, extra lean ground turkey, tilapia.
- [110:43]
Adam Schafer
That's your. Yeah, yeah. And, and I'm gonna say this right now, like those ultra lean, super lean cuts of meat, if that's when that should not be not even close to a predominant source of your, of your animal sources of protein. Unless you're a competitor and you're 12 weeks out and you're measuring everything, if that's usually what you eat for your protein. Oh, your life sucks, you feel like crap, you're not able to recover, your hormones are probably off. Just eat, just eat the meat. Now I'm not talking about going 60% ground beef or you know, eating sausages all the time, but like, you know, chicken thighs, you know, regular ground beef, tri tip, ribeye sort of fat. Yeah, dude, you need it.
- [111:27]
Sal Destefano
It's essential.
- [111:27]
Adam Schafer
Our next caller is Farren from Ontario.
- [111:30]
Sal Destefano
Hi, Farron, how you doing, Farron? Hello.
- [111:33]
Farren (Caller)
Hi, how are you guys?
- [111:35]
Adam Schafer
Good. How can we help you?
- [111:38]
Farren (Caller)
Good.
- [111:38]
Sorry, I'm sitting on the floor because I was having issues using my computer. So I'm on my, on my phone.
- [111:44]
Adam Schafer
So that's all right.
- [111:44]
Doug
That works.
- [111:48]
Farren (Caller)
I'm going to read my email. I did shorten it a little bit just for sake of brevity, but I think it has all the information that you'll need.
- [111:57]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
So.
- [111:58]
Farren (Caller)
Hello, my name is farren. I'm a 38 year old stay at home mom. I have two little boys. And over the past three years, I've lost more than 30 pounds through cardio, macro tracking and then eventually strength training. Along the way I also fell into a cycle of overtraining, restriction and body dysmorphia. But after working with a coach to rebuild a healthier relationship with food and training, I'm now in a much better place. But I'm unsure how to move forward with my goals. So a little bit of background. I started my fitness journey in 2023 when I bought a popular spin bike and began doing classes at home every day. My youngest son was utterly confused and kept asking why I was riding a bike and not going anywhere. And he was right because lost 15 pounds and then stopped going anywhere. I plateaued really quickly. That's when I found the carbon diet coach. I started tracking macros, dialed in on calories, started eating enough protein, and then the weight began to drop off again. So at that time I also started strength training. And I gradually built up a home gym. And by the fall of 2024, I had reached my lowest weight of 122 pounds and 19% body fat. So I looked slim, but I didn't have the physique I wanted. So I kept pushing harder, strength training five days a week, doing cardio almost every day, and then fell into just a cycle of dysmorphia and restricting and binging. I felt awful and I knew something needed to change. So I'd been listening to you guys for a little while and I decided to hire a coach. She helped me rebuild balance. She increased my calories from 1800 to 2400, reduced my training to three days a week, and told me I could do cardio, but it was optional, not mandatory. So my weight went up and stabilized at 134lbs and I felt really great. So at my request, we ran an eight week cut last fall so I could practice doing it in a more sustainable way. I reached 127 pounds, but I felt really crummy and I was really hungry. So I returned to maintenance and that is where I have been ever since. So now my weight has stayed the same. I am probably about 22% body fat, 2,200 calories a day, 130 to 140 grams of protein. Three or four strength days. I do one lower, one upper and two full body days. I use the second full body day as optional, so I don't force myself to do it. But I do complete it most of the time. And I train at home with a home gym I homeschool my kids and I run our household, so I'm pretty active during the day. But my main struggle now is my lower body, so my upper body slims out really easily, and then I carry most of my body fat around my hips and glutes. And I have cellulite, which I hate. Even at my lowest body weight, I still had cellulite. My coach explained that achieving the look I wanted would require a level of restriction that probably wasn't going to be sustainable for me long term. I understand that. But at the same time, I do want to continue to improve my physique. My question for you guys is, is it realistic for me to continue improving my lower body composition while eating maintenance, or would pursuing this goal likely require a deficit that risks pushing me back towards unhealthy habits? How can I focus on building more muscle in my lower body through adjusting my training structure? Or is this mostly a matter of genetics and just false expectations for women? The biggest win for me over the last year has been rebuilding a healthier relationship with food and training. So protecting that progress is really important to me. Thank you for everything you do. I've learned a lot from your show and I would really value your perspective.
- [115:56]
Sal Destefano
First of all, you look great.
- [115:58]
Adam Schafer
You're doing a great job.
- [116:00]
Sal Destefano
You look great and you're doing a great job. That's first and foremost. I'm curious to what. Do you know what your squat deadlift numbers are? How strong, how strong is your lower body? Tell me.
- [116:14]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, so I have been gradually building my home gym. I just got the courage to buy a barbell and a squat stand for myself. So I get that at home. Yesterday I did my first round. I squatted 120 pounds for eight reps.
- [116:36]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [116:37]
Farren (Caller)
So I've been doing that. And then, like, I'm still using the program that my. My coach had me on. So I'm doing like 8, 8 and then 12. So I can do 110 or 12.
- [116:51]
Sal Destefano
Farron, you're. You're doing great.
- [116:54]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And your trainer was. Your coach did a good job. It's actually rare that I hear someone on here tell me about a coach, and I think they did well. I think your coach did a really good job with you. I think you're doing. You're doing great and you need to cut yourself some slack. I think you're too hard on yourself.
- [117:10]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, I know, but.
- [117:13]
Adam Schafer
No, no, there's no but. You're doing really well. Body fat percentage, 20, 22%. I'm going to tell you right now, you're going to feel your best and be your healthiest between 22 to 25% for the rest of your life. That's where you're going to want to sit.
- [117:28]
Sal Destefano
You're at the right body fat percentage. I think you'll obtain the look when we build more muscle in your legs. And I think that you're just now starting squatting.
- [117:36]
Adam Schafer
This is your first time barbell squatting.
- [117:38]
Sal Destefano
A year. A year from now. A year from now, your lower body is going to look radically different. After squatting and deadlifting for a year, you're fine.
- [117:45]
Doug
Yep.
- [117:46]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [117:46]
Sal Destefano
You could get away with bumping Your calories. About 200 more calories. Just so you know.
- [117:50]
Adam Schafer
I think it would be better.
- [117:51]
Sal Destefano
So I would. I would feed you a little bit more and I would try and get strong in the squat and the deadlift. Like, let's keep going.
- [117:58]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [117:59]
Sal Destefano
And watch what your lower body ends up shaping up. And honestly, I want your body fat percentage about where it's at. I don't really want to get. But it'll look different when we put 5 to 10 pounds of muscle on that body.
- [118:12]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [118:12]
Sal Destefano
It's going to look way different.
- [118:13]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [118:14]
Sal Destefano
So I think the look that you're trying to achieve in the lower body will come from squatting for the next. Squatting and deadlifting for the next year and getting strong there and eating. Eating 200 more calories and kind of hovering where you're at, doing what you're doing.
- [118:26]
Adam Schafer
Your calories probably be about 24 to 2500 calories through this process. Process and just get strong. And I think four days a week of strength training is okay. You're better off doing three.
- [118:35]
Doug
Three.
- [118:37]
Farren (Caller)
Okay. So that's. I. I'm not. I don't want to get leaner in a sense that I want to, like, lose weight or even lose body fat. I'm. I'm happy the way I am in that sense. I would just like more muscular.
- [118:53]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [118:54]
Sal Destefano
I heard that. I heard that. I got that from the message. That's. That's what I'm telling you. That's the prescription.
- [118:59]
Adam Schafer
Bump your calories. Do you know how many grams of F I'm assuming you're hitting? I'm assuming you're hitting good protein. Do you know where your fats are at?
- [119:08]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah. So I have. I religiously track, which is another thing that my coach was getting me off of. So I have done times without tracking, but I feel more comfortable tracking my proteins. Yeah. 130 to 140. My fats are between 70 and 80 and then the rest are carbs.
- [119:26]
Adam Schafer
You had a good coach, Faren. Yeah, it's pretty rare I hear about a good coach.
- [119:29]
Sal Destefano
Coach. Where's the coach from?
- [119:32]
Farren (Caller)
So she's now she works for Prime Revival, but at the time, I actually found her through searching on Spotify for a podcast on how to stop tracking macros.
- [119:46]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [119:47]
Farren (Caller)
Going crazy with it. And I just started listening to her podcast and then I added her on Instagram and she reached out to me and said, hey, how can I help you? And it was just a beautiful kind of relationship that we built. She got. Got me into a really good place.
- [120:03]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, she's great.
- [120:04]
Sal Destefano
If.
- [120:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, if you want to reach back out to her for a little short stint, probably be good. But bump your calories to 24, 2500, and let's get you strong. The fact that you just started barbell training, that's like. Yeah, that's like. That's going to unlock a lot of
- [120:18]
Sal Destefano
gains for the next two years. You're going to see consistent progress and change in your. In your lower body.
- [120:23]
Adam Schafer
Just from getting strong.
- [120:24]
Sal Destefano
Just from that.
- [120:24]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, just from that. I'm going to send you maps anabolic. That's the program I want you to follow. It's three days a week. It's three days a week. Do that.
- [120:31]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, that was my question because I'd like to just maintain my upper body, but I'm. I'm. I guess I'm a little bit. I don't want to over train in volume if I want my focus to be on my lower body.
- [120:44]
Adam Schafer
Well, let's do. Let's do this. Muscle mommy. Yeah, I'll give you a muscle mommy. It's a little more. It's more lower body focused. Very similar. Maps Anabolic. Follow that program. Bump your calories 2 to 300. Don't drop them down. And let yourself build. Build into the look that you want. Don't. Don't try to cut into the look that you want.
- [121:03]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, no, I'm done with that. It doesn't make me feel very good, and it just gets me back into a bad place.
- [121:09]
Sal Destefano
And listen to your body. There's a good chance that when you start really hitting strength, your appetite will go up. So don't fight that. If you get hungry, eat. But go eat a good balanced meal. Go have some steak and rice or whatever your favorite meat and rice or yam or sweet potato is. Go have a balanced meal. Whatever. Whatever that is. Like, feed it. If. If. Because that. That's what I'm like, what I'm listening for, if I'm coaching you, is as we're going through this program, you, you're telling me like, wow, you're feeling strong and you're like, adam, I'm getting hungry. And I'm like, yes, feed that. Then we'll go up again. So if you're not, then we're. You'll be fine with a 200 calorie bump. But even at 2,400 calories, if you start getting hungry from lifting this way, that's a good sign. That means you're trying to build muscle.
- [121:57]
Farren (Caller)
Okay, so is this something that I should focus on for the next. Well, I guess forever.
- [122:05]
Sal Destefano
Well, at least the next three months because the program's three months long. So follow that the way it's laid out and with the advice we're giving with calories and just let the program do the work.
- [122:15]
Adam Schafer
And I'll tell you this, Farren, if you just started barbell trust training, if you just focused on, you know, smart training and getting stronger for the next two years, yeah, that's the best focus you the best for the next two years. Just try to get stronger. Yeah. Be smart about it. You know, don't hurt yourself. But, but just try to get stronger. Feed yourself to do so and you'll get the look that you're looking for.
- [122:37]
Farren (Caller)
Okay.
- [122:38]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, you got a really cool, you got a really cool year ahead of you.
- [122:42]
Adam Schafer
You're.
- [122:42]
Sal Destefano
Because you got it. You had a good coaching that set you up well. You're in a good place right now. That program is going to be incredible for you. And just like Sal said, Justin, you know what?
- [122:52]
Adam Schafer
You want to get back on here after you're finished with Muscle Mommy?
- [122:55]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to hear where you're at. Three months.
- [122:58]
Farren (Caller)
Yeah, that would be really cool.
- [122:59]
Sal Destefano
Okay, cool. We're going to send. Yeah, we're going to send it to you and then, and then reach back out and then we'll do a follow up with you.
- [123:05]
Farren (Caller)
Okay, perfect. So Muscle Mommy is good. So I. At home, I have dumbbells, five to 50 pounds. I have a squat stand and barbell, and I have a cable tower too.
- [123:17]
Adam Schafer
You're good. You got everything you need? You're covered. Yep.
- [123:20]
Farren (Caller)
Okay. Okay. And no. So I, I've stopped doing cardio. I just don't.
- [123:25]
Adam Schafer
That's fine.
- [123:25]
Sal Destefano
That's fine. Walk. If you want to do anything else, walk. But follow the program the way it's laid out. Any other activity? Walking?
- [123:32]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [123:33]
Farren (Caller)
Just walking. Okay. Well, when it's negative 15 here,
- [123:39]
it's
- [123:39]
like the seven years of winter that won't end, so.
- [123:42]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [123:43]
Farren (Caller)
Okay. Thank you so much. This has been. I've been wanting to call in and talk to you guys for a few weeks and months probably, and I finally mustered up the courage to do it, and you've given me the reassurance that I hear you say all the time. But it's really nice to hear it directly from you guys and to get positive feedback as well.
- [124:03]
Adam Schafer
Awesome.
- [124:03]
Sal Destefano
You're doing great.
- [124:04]
Adam Schafer
We'll see you in three months.
- [124:04]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, can't wait.
- [124:06]
Doug
Keep it going. Yeah, for sure.
- [124:08]
Farren (Caller)
Thank you so much.
- [124:09]
Sal Destefano
All right.
- [124:09]
Adam Schafer
Thanks, Faren. Hey, that never happens where somebody talks about their. I'm almost always like, this is gonna suck. Yeah.
- [124:16]
Doug
Yeah.
- [124:16]
Adam Schafer
Their coach did a great job.
- [124:18]
Sal Destefano
Well, listen to how she found her.
- [124:19]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [124:21]
Sal Destefano
That. Even that. That podcast episode is not a. That's not a calm. That's a. That's a. Obviously a coach who's been coaching for a long time to even have a podcast episode titled how to Stop Tracking Macros.
- [124:33]
Doug
Totally.
- [124:33]
Adam Schafer
You know, Doug, send her an email. I'd love to get the name of the podcast and find out who this. Who this trainer is. That's great.
- [124:40]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, no, I definitely. Maybe we'll steal her and come work for mine.
- [124:44]
Adam Schafer
That's what I was thinking.
- [124:45]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, for sure.
- [124:47]
Adam Schafer
That's awesome. Yep. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media thank you for listening to Mind Pump.
- [124:53]
Sal Destefano
If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health
- [124:56]
Doug
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Adam Schafer
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Sal Destefano
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Adam Schafer
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Sal Destefano
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Doug
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Sal Destefano
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Adam Schafer
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Sal Destefano
enjoy this show, please share the love
- [125:45]
Adam Schafer
by leaving us a five star rating
- [125:47]
Sal Destefano
and review on itunes and by introducing introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family.
- [125:52]
Adam Schafer
We thank you for your support and
- [125:54]
Sal Destefano
until next time, this is Mind Pump. Awkward time to ask this, but. Hey, did you download the trail map?
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Adam Schafer
Yeah. No, I don't need to.
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Sal Destefano
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Adam Schafer
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Doug
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Adam Schafer
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Sal Destefano
Whoa. I don't trust my carrier that much.
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Adam Schafer
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Sal Destefano
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Adam Schafer
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- [126:58]
Caller - Adam's Son's Father
Com.