2849: Are Deadlifts Actually Dangerous? The Truth About So Called Risky Exercises

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2849 | May 2, 2026

Title: Are Deadlifts Actually Dangerous? The Truth About So-Called Risky Exercises
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump hosts dive deep into the controversial question: "Are deadlifts actually dangerous?" Drawing from recent studies, expert opinions, and decades of coaching experience, Sal, Adam, and Justin debate the legitimacy and risks of so-called "dangerous" exercises—particularly the deadlift. The conversation unpacks injury statistics, biomechanics, skill acquisition, and training intelligence, while exposing how misguided avoidance of certain functional movements (like deadlifts) can actually increase overall injury risk and diminish quality of life. The team also answers live listener questions on muscle imbalances, breaking through plateaus, and training around injuries, offering personalized programming and nutrition guidance in their signature straight-shooting style.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Dangerous Exercises: Myths and Facts

• Deadlift Controversy (03:29):

  • Recent research (2026 narrative review, "Beyond the Neutral Spine") reignites the debate on deadlift safety, citing high compressive spinal forces and lumbar flexion rates in gym-goers.
  • Dr. Stuart McGill (spine biomechanics expert) warns deadlifts require "near perfect technique" for general populations and may not be suitable for everyone.
  • Sal: "Exercises don't hurt you. What hurts you is your inability to do them properly. It's you that hurt you; it's not the exercise." (06:20)

• Skill & Risk Perspective:

  • Most injuries stem not from exercises themselves but from lack of skill, improper technique, or excessive load.
  • Adam: "If you're moving a weight you can move five times, even if your technique isn't perfect, your likelihood of injury is much lower than going for a PR (personal record)." (07:47)
  • Justin: "A hinge—deadlift pattern—is something we face every day. It's sad we’ve gotten to a place where hinging is so difficult." (11:19)

• Analogy to Running (08:01):

  • Despite humans being "built to run," running causes the most exercise-related injuries, reinforcing that skill acquisition and appropriate progression are essential.
  • Sal: "If we're going to base what exercises and movements we should do off injury risk, then we would throw out running." (11:45)

The Importance of Respecting Movement as Skill

• Skill Loss Through Avoidance:

  • Failing to practice fundamental lifts (squat, hinge, row, press) leads to loss of functional capacity and greater injury risk in daily life.
  • Justin: “It's not that we shouldn't be doing those movements. It's that we should be practicing them so they don't hurt us.” (15:09)

• Progression Over Perfection:

  • There are multiple styles and progressions for deadlifts—e.g., never going below 5 reps, using trap bar or single-leg variations—to mitigate risk while building skill.
  • Adam: “You don't have to just do more weight on the bar to progress! Pause, tempo, isometrics, variations—the risk drops with smarter programming.” (19:49)

Functional Strength vs. Machines (20:21)

• Real-Life Resilience:
  • People who avoid “dangerous” free weight exercises in favor of machines may actually be at greater risk for life injuries due to lack of multi-planar and stabilizer engagement.
  • Sal: "The person with the higher rate of injury in life is the machine person." (21:19)

Deadlift as Therapy: Real Stories

• Both Doug (the producer) and Justin report overcoming chronic low back pain by learning to deadlift properly and progressively.
  • Doug, After hitting a 405lb deadlift: “It used to go out all the time. Not anymore.” (23:24)
  • Justin: “Before deadlifting and barbell squatting, I had chronic low back pain. That's what got rid of it.” (23:44)

Slippery Slope of Avoidance Culture

• Mind Pump Take: The trend of removing challenging movements from routines, for fear of risk, leads to a society that is less resilient, less mobile, and prone to injury in life’s unpredictable moments.
• Sal: "It's just lazy to tell people to avoid [deadlifts] instead of teaching them how to do it." (24:46)
• Justin: “There’s not a lot of stuff that replaces the deadlift. Get rid of a lot of exercises, but do not lose this skill.” (25:26)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sal: "The difference between the barbell curl and running isn’t that one is a skill and one isn’t—the difference is just how technical they are and how much risk is involved." (10:24)
• Adam: "We need things that are shocking for clicks, and it just steers people different directions that are harmful..." (16:08)
• Sal (on real-world function): "Everyday life isn't on a track. It requires you to stabilize, twist, and reach in ways only free weights prepare you for." (21:18)
• Justin (on giving up deadlifts): "It's a slippery slope toward ‘WALL-E’..." (14:41)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:29: Launch into controversial exercise debate; deadlift risk studies
• 06:44: Core argument—skill, injury, and personal responsibility
• 08:01: Risk of running & necessity of progressive skill acquisition
• 15:09: Avoidance vs. mastery—why shunning movements is the wrong lesson
• 19:38: Overload and safe deadlift progressions beyond more weight
• 20:21: Free weights vs. machines: why manufactured “safety” isn’t always safe
• 23:24–24:46: Cure for chronic low back pain: deadlift done right
• 25:26: Deadlifts as an irreplaceable, lifelong skill

---

Listener Q&A Highlights

[55:50] Mike from Switzerland – Overcoming Arm Imbalances and Injury Recovery

• Lost 50 lbs, overcame a herniated disc with physio and unilateral work, but still has imbalances.
• Mind Pump Advice: Keep working unilaterally, prioritize lagging parts (add sets/calories); patience and consistency trump shortcuts.
• Sal: “If you want a lagging part to grow, move volume away from dominant parts and put it into the lagging one, and eat more to support growth.” (58:01)
• Guidance to let hand fully heal from break before loading—don’t risk reinjury; try MAPS Symmetry.

[65:35] Mercedes from British Columbia – Eating Huge, Seeing No Gains?

• 5’1", 102 lbs, eating 2,800–3,000+ calories/day, all lifts up but no muscle gained per scans.
• Mind Pump Advice: Be patient—her strength (12 pullups, 150lb RDLs) and food intake mean she’s likely adding muscle, even if scans don’t show it. Switch to higher-calorie, fattier foods for easier calories if needed; don’t force more food to the point of gut distress. Try MAPS Powerlift for a new training stimulus.

[74:02] Jesse from Australia – Balancing Boxing & Strength Training

• Training for an amateur boxing match; worries about strength loss/body composition.
• Mind Pump Advice: Maintain 2x/week strength work on top of boxing; swap days according to enjoyment and recovery. Keep a flexible approach, don’t sacrifice enjoyment of movement for aesthetics. Use supplements like glycine, theanine, and magnesium for better sleep; try earplugs or white noise.

[85:01] Salvador from California – Fat Loss Plateau & Mountain Bike Goal

• Large caloric deficit (1700–2000 kcal), stalled weight loss, 50km mountain bike race ahead.
• Mind Pump Advice: Eating far too little; must raise calories to 2,400–2,700, focus on gaining strength with longer rest periods, then cut calories for fat loss closer to the race. Provided MAPS Anabolic program for hypertrophy and metabolic support.

---

Additional Noteworthy Topics

• Discussion on concussion risks in women’s vs. men’s sports (30:03).
• Perceived strength as a leading factor in men’s attractiveness (37:37).
• Ashwagandha, supplement talk, and stress management (41:31–44:19).
• Peptides, GLP-1 agonists, myostatin inhibition, and Big Pharma’s latest trends for muscle gain and fat loss (45:46–54:49).
• The dark side of “looking fit” without functional fitness or health (53:02).
• Multiple stories on overcoming back pain, body image struggles, and developing lifelong training habits.

---

Takeaways

• Deadlifts—and other compound "risky" lifts—are foundational movement skills, not inherently dangerous exercises. Training skillfully and progressively matters far more than the label of "safe" or "dangerous."
• Avoiding these key movements creates greater functional deficits and higher real-world injury risk than doing them.
• Progression can (and should) be achieved in many ways beyond just lifting more weight—volume, tempo, angle, isometrics.
• Respect movement; treat it as a skill worthy of the same practice and attention as any sport or activity.
• Nutrition, recovery, skill, and psychology all play huge roles—consult experts and be patient.
• Listener Q&A underscores the team’s practical, individualized approach—fueled by real science and real-world experience.

---

Memorable Quotes

"Exercises don’t hurt you. What hurts you is your inability to do them properly."
— Sal Di Stefano (06:20)

"If you’re going to throw out the deadlift, you may as well throw out running too."
— Justin Andrews (10:15)

"You can 100% do without biceps curls. You can never do without a deadlift."
— Justin Andrews (22:06)

"It’s not a lack of that we shouldn’t be doing that movement. It’s a lack of we should be practicing that movement so it doesn’t hurt us."
— Justin Andrews (15:09)

---

Summary: Should You Deadlift?

Should you deadlift? If you want a movement that builds functional strength, spine resilience, and real-life preparedness—yes. But, as with running, squatting, or throwing, treat it like the skill it is: progress with intelligence, train with intention, and respect your own timeline. It’s not the deadlift that’s dangerous. It’s failing to learn and progress that sets you up for harm.

---

This episode is essential listening for anyone who wants the unfiltered truth about exercise risk, practical injury reduction, skill development, and life-long resilience. The message is clear: don’t shy away from so-called "dangerous" movements. Instead, seek to master them intelligently—and thrive for life.

Transcript

[Justin Andrews]

When Mother's Day means celebrating your mom,

[Sal DeStefano]

your wife, maybe even your daughter as a new mom.

[Justin Andrews]

Trust 1-800-FLOWERS to help you celebrate every

[Sal DeStefano]

important woman in your life with double blooms from 1-800-Flowers. Order one dozen roses and get another dozen for free. It's a simple way to give beautifully with colorful blooms that make Mother's Day feel meaningful for every mom you're celebrating. Order with confidence and get Double blooms at 1-800-FLowers.com podcast that's that's 1-800-FLowers.COM podcast.

[Avocado Mattress Ad]

This Memorial Day shop one of Avocado's biggest mattress sales of the year and fall in love with sleep again at Avocado. Better sleep starts with better materials. Our certified organic mattresses are crafted without compromise, using high quality organic materials that bring comfort and support into perfect balance. No polyurethane foams, no shortcuts, just a cleaner, more natural sleep experience that your body will appreciate night after night so you fall asleep more easily, stay asleep longer and wake up feeling refreshed and ready for the day ahead. That's sleep with purpose this Memorial Day. Discover what it means to truly sleep well. Upgrade and save up to 20% on our award winning mattresses. Shop the Memorial Day sale now and get up to 20% off at avocadomatress.com or or select retailers nationwide. Visit avocadomatress.Com that's avocadomatress.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Com if you want to pump your

[Sal DeStefano]

body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

and Justin Andrews, you just found the

[Sal DeStefano]

most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, people called in and we got to coach them live on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro, 51 minutes long, we talk about exercise, strength training, cardio, fat loss, muscle gain, current events, family life, all that good stuff. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this, if you want to call in and have Justin, Adam, myself coach you on air, here's what you do. Send your question to mplifecaller.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab. This is skin care that actually works. It's science backed, but it's also all natural and you can get 20% off. Go to calderalab.com mindpump use the code mindpump20 for the 20% off discount. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi, makers of great organic Supplements. Today we talked about their Ashwagandha infused green juice. Great for stress, great to help make your body more resilient. Also good for inflammation and digestion. Go check them out. Get 20% off. Go to Organifi.com mindpump use the code mindpump for that 20% off. We also have a brand new sale this month. It's buy one, get one free of any Maps 15 style program. So we have many Maps 15 style programs. These are programs where you work out just 15 to 20 minutes a day. You can buy one and get one free right now. Go to maps15bogo b o g o.com to get yourself set up. All right, real quick.

[Adam Schafer]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear? [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's often a lot of controversy in the strength training world with certain exercises. These are deemed dangerous or risky exercises. Should you skip them or are they valuable? Oftentimes some of these exercises are listed as some of the best. But then you hear experts say don't do them, they're bad for you. Who's right? What's going on? Do them or not do them. Let's talk about them.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you hear the interview not that long ago, who was interviewing Robert Obris? No, no, no. That's when he originally said it.

[Adam Schafer]

Originally said it.

[Justin Andrews]

So he originally said it on Rogan, but then somebody. Oh, I want to say it was Eddie Hall.

[Adam Schafer]

Eddie Hall. Yeah, it was like buddy Eddie hall, who's another strong man. And, and they were kind of like going back and forth on Live or FaceTime or whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

But yeah, so he, yeah, and that one's pretty nuanced. But it's, you know, he was trying to make the case that the risk really wasn't worth the squeeze for your average person to do deadlifts.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's interesting. Your right guys bribe deadlift because that's the exercise. I just, I'll pull up what I read. That's the most controversy that got me. There's a lot of exercises that there's even, there's exercises trainers. So they don't even do these. At least deadlifts. Some people will do them. But that's the exercise that prompted, you know, this topic because. So yeah, there was a, a narrative review that was published in the Journal of Sports and it was a 2026 one, and it was titled beyond the Neutral Spine. And it really reignited this kind of heated debate around the deadlift. And the research cited in the sports medicine publications confirms that approximately 73%. Which, by the way, I don't know how they got this number, but anyway, 73% of recreational gym goers demonstrate notable lumbar flexion when deadlifting under load. And the conventional deadlift places compressive forces on the lumbar spine that can reach 8 to 10 times body weight at peak load. Sounds really scary. Then you got people like Dr. Stuart McGill, he's a spine biomechanics researcher, and he argues that the deadlift requires near perfect technique to be for. Be performed safely by gen Pop. And so he's like, let's avoid it or let's try other exercises. And of course, then they, then they talk about how lower back injuries account for roughly 25% of all resistance training injuries. So I want to start by saying this, that exercises don't hurt you. Okay. What hurts you is your inability to do them properly. Yeah, that's it. So anything you do that hurts you, anything. What ends up getting you hurt is that you just couldn't do it. Your body couldn't do what you asked

[Adam Schafer]

it to do, couldn't generate force where you needed to generate force.

[Sal DeStefano]

It didn't have the ability to generate the force properly, to stabilize. Properly stabilize it. You lacked the mobility, the extensibility. You just, you were doing something. Whether because it was too much weight for what you could do, or you didn't have the technique, you didn't have the skill, you didn't have the prerequisites, you didn't have the mobility. It's you that hurt you. It's not the exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know if taking that position, though, strengthens the argument to deadlift or not more. Well, I don't think that's the angle or the position I would take on this. I think that what happens is. And where I could get behind Robert and Eddie when they were having that discussion is that I, I don't think at the level that they're. They're lifting, it's worth it. Unless you're going to win.

[Adam Schafer]

From their perspective, I could kind of.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I mean, and they're.

[Adam Schafer]

The extremity of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're so strong.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And they're. And their whole, and their whole programming is designed to adding and lifting more and more and more competitive than chasing a pr. I, I think, I would say there's a Way to lift and never do less than 5 reps in the deadlift and never even attempt a PR and see tremendous. And. And then. And then the. The risk factor changes dramatically. If you're moving a weight, you can move five times the likelihood that you're gonna really injure yourself doing so. Even if your technique isn't perfect, it dramatically goes down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Now you trying to do singles and. And you don't. And, you know, go after a PR of a weight that you can only pull off the ground one time, and you don't have perfect technique. You're talking about a huge difference in risk.

[Sal DeStefano]

See, I think it's important to talk about the potential risk of exercises so that people treat them the way that they're supposed to be treated. Here's the problem. Here's the real problem. The real problem isn't the exercise or whatever. It's that people view workouts in general as a way to get tired, sweaty, and sore. Yeah, I agree. Nobody views. Very few people, I should say, view exercises, movements as skills. Cycling is a skill. Running is a skill. Jumping is a skill. Throwing is a skill. Squatting, deadlifting, Squatting, deadlifting, a barbell curl. They're all skills. But if I don't respect it as a skill and if I just look at an exercise and go, that's legs, that's back, that's shoulders, I'm just gonna get those body parts tired. I completely disrespect the fact that it's a skill, and I just do it to get tired. By the way, I'm just gonna be very clear here. Do you know what activity leads to statistically the most injuries? What exercise type leads to the most injuries? Running. Running, running. Do you also want to know something else crazy? Humans were designed or evolved, whatever you believe, to run. We're actually made to run exceptionally well. We have big knee joints. We're on two legs. We have this really thick Achilles tendon. We have lots of muscle on the bottom of our foot. And when a human can run, when they possess the skill, they really possess the skill to run. Humans can outlast almost any animal. It's actually one of the physical things we could do better than most animals. In fact, there used to be this race that they stopped doing a long time ago. But maybe, Doug, you could look this up where it would be a human versus a horse. Yeah. And it wasn't for speed. It was for distance.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

50% of the time or something like that. The human would win out, endure the horse. Yeah. Because we're really good at that. And yet it's the highest injury risk of all.

[Adam Schafer]

It's the one exercise like just from the couch. People are comfortable with like just, just getting up and then just stepping into a run because they feel like this is just an innate skill that we.

[Justin Andrews]

So I, I love, I love you coming at it from that position because then, then with that argument it's, you know, if you're going to throw out the deadlift, you may as well throw out running then too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Throw any. Let's. You could throw. Look, barbell curl is a skill too. The difference is it doesn't require.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it doesn't require. Okay, we could. Because that doesn't, that doesn't.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know what you mean.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that doesn't connect. Right. Or that doesn't track. But running is arguably as technical or more technical than the deadlift. Yet we encourage all kinds of people to do this.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

So if, if you, you can't say deadlifting isn't, isn't worth.

[Adam Schafer]

Qualify it like ahead of time. Like we're not like you need to work with a coach. You need to make sure you have the proper mechanics, like the right form, the like. There's no like prerequisites like that are pushed as opposed to like a lot of these like compound lifts.

[Justin Andrews]

There's another angle too which is this is a very basic human movement that we should all be able to do. A hinge. To hinge properly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Something off the floor.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. To hinge properly is a skill.

[Adam Schafer]

We face it every day.

[Justin Andrews]

We should all want to be figure out how to do to practice. And if all these studies that come out or these arguments for the deadlift is high risk, it's like that. That's not like a reason to not do it. It's a, it's a man that's sad that we've gotten to a place where hinging is so difficult.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll put it differently. It's a reason to res.

[Adam Schafer]

Dosing.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a reason to respect.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a skill. Look, if we're going to base what exercises and movements we should do based off of the data on injury risk, then we would throw running out, of course. 1. So that's my whole point with the thing I remember. I remember this hitting me like a ton of bricks. Years I've told this story before. I haven't told a long time, but years ago. A long time ago. I don't know, it's 15, 17 years ago, something like that. I was hiking in the Foothills down in south San Jose. And I'm up there hiking. And in the foothills, people either hike or run. So it's not like a crazy trail, it's like a flat trail. So you'll see people running or hiking. And I was getting passed up by all these joggers. Now I'm a trainer, and as a trainer, I can't help but notice biomechanics, okay? So I'm watching people run, and in my mind I'm like, oh, my God. Foot pronation. Oh, gosh, that person's knees are gonna hurt. Oh, my God. Excessive anterior pillar. And I just watch everybody running by. And every single running person running by, I'm like, oh, God, that looks horrible. That looks hard. And they're just, you know, these are people trying to lose weight or whatever, and they're just running to fatigue. And then out of nowhere, this guy runs by and he's like a gazelle. Like, he was this. You could, you could tell he's been practicing the skill of running. He's competitive, he's good at it. And he just coasted by. And I'm watching him and I'm realizing how beautiful his technique was. And then I'm thinking to myself, like, you know, hunter gatherers, this is how we. This is how we killed animals. We weren't faster than animals. We throw something at them and then we run after them so they bleed out. We're made to run. Why is it that this guy's. And I'm like, oh, I know why. Here's what happens. Somebody hits the age of 35, oh, my God, I gotta lose weight. Gonna go buy some running shoes. And I'm gonna run till I'm tired.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, and they're flat footed.

[Sal DeStefano]

And nobody treats any other skill this way. If I wanna learn how to play golf, I don't go out, grab a golf club and swing as hard as I can until I'm tired. I'll go hire a coach. I'll figure out my technique. And I know that it's a skill. Exercise is a skill. Strength training is a skill. It's not just a way to get tired. And if you respect it as such, here's what happens. To your point, Adam, if you don't practice a skill and strengthen a skill, you lose it. So right now, if you're listening right now, and you haven't run a lot since you were 12, which is most people, your running is going to suck. You're not running, your technique's going to be terrible. If you haven't thrown A baseball since you were in Little League. Go throw a ball really hard. See how your shoulder feels right afterwards. You've lost the skill. If you don't practice the skill of hinging or squatting or pressing or rowing, you'll lose it. Even the behind the neck exercises that even some certifications say don't do. Super dangerous. Behind the neck, press behind the neck, pull down. Your ability to articulate your shoulders in that position with the mobility and strength in order to control it. If you stop practicing that, you'll really lose it. So it's actually a good idea to practice and learn all these different skills and treat them with respect. And what will happen is you won't hurt yourself.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, this is a slippery slope towards Wally, you know, like totally. It's like we, we agree. Oh, all the studies are showing the high risk of injury through deadlifting. So let's just eliminate that. Then what comes next? Yeah, right. And then what comes next? I mean, if we, if we use that to steer us in what we should or shouldn't be doing as far as movements, sooner or later all the, all the studies will continue to point to this movement hurts us. This movement hurts us. And it's like, it's not a lack of that we shouldn't be doing that movement. It's a lack of we should be practicing that movement so it doesn't hurt us.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

So this idea that, you know, deadlifts are bad for you or the day. I mean, listen, I admittedly, I didn't train them for a very long time and I didn't train clients on them, but it was because I was fearful of the skill. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't feel I could coach it properly. And so I didn't teach my clients to do it. I was too embarrassed as a trainer to do it in the gym because I didn't think I had good technique. And at that time in my life, I didn't value enough to go hire someone to teach, coach me and teach me to do it. It wasn't as popular as it is today, where you could probably tap someone on the shoulder in the gym today and find someone. Nobody deadlifted. Nobody did in the gym like you. If you worked at a gym like we did 20 something in the 90s. Yeah. Nobody was deadlift.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'd have members stop me and tell me, what are you doing? That's different gym.

[Justin Andrews]

So it was, you know, so I understand why a lot of people avoid it. I would, I did. But let me tell you somebody who did and then, and then see the value of learning how to do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh my God.

[Adam Schafer]

It's such a movement, properly progressively overloading. I mean, it prevents back pain. It prevents like a lot of these chronic pain and arthritis and issues down the road. So to, you know, like generalize everybody to steer away from something where people go to the extreme in excess, just like anything else. I mean, that's what pisses me off about our space is we need clicks and we need views and we need things that are shocking and they're all generalizations and it just steers people different directions that are harmful because we're implementing these specific types of exercises that are going to work well as a skill for your life. And it's like there's a way to do that and introduce it with the proper amount of load where your body can withstand that. It's supposed to withstand that. We have muscles for this. Like we, we have the, the gear, the equipment. We, we're made for this. You just have to load it properly. You have to build the skill up and the strength to produce it and to generate force. And so, yeah, you literally could go down the list. I mean, unless you're like slamming weights on your neck or something. Like I, you know, there, there might be some value there.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's some of my favorite videos that were just, for me as a trainer, paradigm shattering were these old, you can find them on YouTube. Old Soviet era wrestlers. So these were Greco Roman wrestlers who were doing weight training exercises and they were doing exercises I'd never seen before. So I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh my God, what are they doing? This is crazy. And then I'm like, wait a minute. These are like the Winniest athletes of all time. Back then. This is when I learned about the Jefferson deadlift. Listen, you want to watch something? So much controversy that makes you cringe. Like, what are you doing? Like the way you're not supposed to do a Jefferson deadlift. Yeah, Jefferson curl, Jeff. Yeah, Jefferson curl. Now these guys were doing this because when you're a wrestler, you're picking someone up the floor, you're not in this proper looking, perfect, whatever. You're very rounded. So they had to strengthen that position to prevent injury during competition.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're moving, moving weight.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. It's not a barbell.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not a barbell. It's not stationary. It's a guy that's like resisting you.

[Sal DeStefano]

That' that's right.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're in that precarious position like Tell me, you know, tell me, like, that's like not valuable.

[Sal DeStefano]

The risk of injury goes up when the, when the demands start to get close to your limits of what you can handle.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is why, you know, the risk starts to. The risk versus. Here's where risk versus reward becomes an issue. You're really freaking strong. Okay, so if you're a guy. Yes. And you're deadlifting and you've been training for five years and you weigh 180 pounds and you, you're like at a 450 pound deadlift, which is like, you're really strong, dude. If you're £180, you're pulling 450 off the floor. You're a very strong guy. Now at that point you're like, okay, is adding 50 more pounds to my deadlift going to do much more for my quality of life or building muscle? Is it worth going up £50? No, it's not. But you get 180 pound guy who can deadlift £100 and you get him to go up to £200, the reward is phenomenal. Quality of life goes through the roof. Stability around the spine is incredible. He notices it every day. Far more than the guy who went for 450, 500 type.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, not to mention too, there's several ways, I mean, we did a whole episode, I think the nine ways to progressively overload the body. And you don't have to just do more weight on the bar too.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can make it harder by slow.

[Justin Andrews]

We can slow down the tempo. You can do isometrics and pauses. There's so many things that you do. Variations where I do a Sumo deadlift and then I do a conventional or single leg. Yeah, or single. There's so many things that we can do to challenge and progressively overload the body to see continued progression in that movement and get better at the skill before we increase the risk by going, hey, let's slap 2-50-300-400 on the bar. It's like, how about I stay at 135, but now I'll do single leg or I'll pause or I'll do an isometric hold, like so many things you can do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's the proper comparison. Because then if we go down that rationale of like dangerous exercises, then the rationale, logically, with that rationale would lead you to machines.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, Slippery slope I was talking about.

[Sal DeStefano]

If I follow that rationale, then what I'm going to do is go. I'm going to say, okay, well, I'm Only going to do machines. It's controlled, it's on a track, it ain't going to get out of place. But I'm going to give you, here's a proper comparison. If you took two people, identical situations, both of them training properly. Okay. So good technique, doing what their body can handle, good mobility, good stability. One person's doing the quote unquote dangerous exercises and the other person's doing the quote unquote safe machine exercises. And you have them live their life for their whole life. The person with the higher rate of injury in life is the machine person. Yeah. They're less strong in ways that you need to protect yourself in everyday life. Because here's what happens in every life.

[Adam Schafer]

Translate.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm walking and my foot goes off the curb or my kid jumps over here and I got to reach and grab them, or I got to twist and grab this thing or my five year old jumps on my neck when I'm sitting on the couch a particular

[Adam Schafer]

way like you want, then you're carrying shifts.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a joint stability component to lifting free weights.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

That you, you don't get with the machine.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

It's on a track. It's stabilized for you.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

And so there's tremendous value to a weight on a barbell or a dumbbell that can move freely. And all those stabilizer joint or all those stabilizer muscles have to stabilize that movement. That is incredibly valuable that you, you miss out on if you do that. Yeah, no, it's a, it's a really slippery slope to go down and eliminate a movement, especially a movement like that. It's like we could do without bicep curls. You can 100 do without biceps.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's so funny.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schafer]

Like you guys both look at me right then.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it's, I mean, it's true.

[Adam Schafer]

You can still do them every day.

[Justin Andrews]

You can, but you can, you can literally never do a bicep curl. If you're doing pull ups and yeah. Deadlifts and everything like that, you're fine. You can never do a bicep. We could do without certain exercises, but there's certain ones. We just lose a lot. An overhead press, a barbell squat, a barbell deadlift, the row.

[Sal DeStefano]

These movements are so important for everyday life. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

For the way we, we will move throughout the rest of our life.

[Sal DeStefano]

For the rest of our life.

[Justin Andrews]

And, and to eliminate one of those because of the risk factor is just ridiculous.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, my favorite example of this is. And we have the person here who can confirm this. Doug hired me because of back pain.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doug went to a chiropractor.

[Justin Andrews]

I have so many stories, stories of clients I know low back pain and then deadlifting is what made them not have low back pain.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, let me, let me tell the story for me. He had repeated back injuries. It just kept going out. And he goes. And his chiropractor, who I had started working with, was like, go see this trainer. He knows what he's doing. So Doug, who had back problems where his back kept going out, started training with me and we trained properly and appropriately, eventually got him to do a 405 pound deadlift at a body weight

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

of what, probably 153 or 5.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's an incredible strength to weight ratio. Does your back go out anymore?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Has been a very long time, knock on wood.

[Sal DeStefano]

But no, it doesn't. It used to go out all the time. Yeah. And that's an example.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I've, I've shared in the deadlift. I've shared on the podcast. Before deadlifting and barbell squatting, I had chronic low back pain. That's what got rid of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, the irony of that, right? Like, as, as a young man, by the way, like, I, I had low back. Chronic pain. Like chronic low back pain. And you know what, Learning how to squat and deadlift.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you were strong everywhere else too.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It wasn't like you weren't working out.

[Justin Andrews]

Susceptible. Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the. You were a muscular bodybuilder.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. And I, and it wasn't until I started doing that. I mean, the, listen to the, the core strength required to stabilize the barbell when you're doing a deadlifter is so incredibly important and valuable too. So. And, and getting good at that skill forces you to do that. And that was that alone right there. And as long as I maintain that. And I notice a difference when I have these spells where I'll go on a kick for a while and I won't deadlift or squat for a little while. And that very first thing that always motivates me to get back to lifting is I'll start to notice low back fatigue. I'll sit on a plane for an hour and it's like, oh, my God, my little drive somewhere. I'll be like. And I always know it's like, God damn it, I haven't been squatting or deadlifting. And if I'm, if I'm, if that's consistently in my routine, I don't have chronic.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what it is? You know what this conversation is? It's lazy. This is the conversation. Hey, we're not even attempt to teach you or talk about why. We're just say don't do it because we're too lazy to explain it to you. We're too lazy to communicate it properly. And. And to be quite honest, we think you're too lazy to do it the right way. So just avoid it. You guys just, just skip it.

[Adam Schafer]

Put caution tape around it and move on.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, move on. And it's like. No, that's not the proper. That's not the proper.

[Justin Andrews]

It's just, I, I think it frustrates me because I would be okay with that. With a lot. There's probably a hundred exercises you could convince me that you could do without.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's one pick the ones that are the most.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's a. It's one of the ones. It's. There's only a handful. There's less than a handful of movements

[Sal DeStefano]

that like, I feel like don't lose this skill.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, exactly. Do not lose this skill. To be able to do this. That would be. That's one of them. So it's like get rid of. There's a lot of shit that we can get rid of that. It's like, you know, not a big deal if you don't do that or if we do this, it gets, it takes care of that. Like there's not a lot of stuff, there's not a lot of stuff that replaces the deadlift. Yeah. And I'm okay with variations like if you're not. If the skill isn't there to do a barbell deadlift and we trap our deadlift.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying? And we work towards that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You work towards it.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, or if. Or we do single leg like you said.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had my 70 plus year old clients deadlifting all of them. Every single one. We didn't start deadlifting.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it was like, no, you probably

[Justin Andrews]

started with a single leg toe touch.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yo.

[Justin Andrews]

Which is where I started.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I would start them off on a rack and it was barely bending over. And eventually I got them to do full on deadlifts. And every single one of them was like, I can't believe how good my back feels.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is incredible.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, we're gonna change subjects off air. Adam. I love, I love the things that Adam gets passionate about.

[Justin Andrews]

You talk about my soap.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude. Hey, listen, first of all, first of

[Adam Schafer]

all, are you still doing like three showers a Day or.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I always have been that guy, but I. So we had. We had caldera lab today, and we're just raving about. We talk about all this stuff that. All this stuff is great, but their skin stuff. Yeah, it's amazing. But there's soap is one of my. Like, once I converted over to using soap, I've never used. I don't know how many years now it's been. I've never used another soap. It's the. The best bar so ever. And I just can't believe you guys haven't got on board as. As. Because it's a.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's the lather you keep raving about. It's just this really thick, like.

[Justin Andrews]

And I know. And I know your argument back to that is like, you know, that the lather has nothing to do.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's the experience.

[Justin Andrews]

It is.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're such an experienced guy with your bath.

[Justin Andrews]

There is. I. And. And I'm very aware of the. I'm aware of the shampoo game. I'm aware of the soap game. I'm aware of the toothpaste game.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you smiling when you take a shower? You like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. To lather up and see myself, you know?

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, to make a nice little, like, bubble hat. Like little kids. You know, what would be, like, the ultimate, like, if you could sell Justin. Because I. For sure. I guarantee you Justin uses dish soap.

[Justin Andrews]

I guarantee he does use diesel.

[Sal DeStefano]

He does use fuel or whatever that.

[Adam Schafer]

Whatever's there.

[Caller Salvador]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You steal from Courtney, whatever that, like, shop soap is that you use to get free stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, the orange. So it's, like, sandpapery. I'm totally using that.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I've. So I've. Before caldera lab, I've. I've purchased, like, your, you know, organic goods, like homemade soaps and stuff like that. And I. And I like. I like those. In fact, we used to. Although they're ridiculously expensive when you buy like that, which is just crazy. I. I've liked. But the one thing I've never liked about them is I feel like I'm scrubbing on my skin and I can't see any lather whatsoever. So I've always wanted the best of both worlds. And I know that a lot of the crap. The crappy stuff that's got all the chemicals and the. To make the lather.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. Caldera lab. So here's a question I want to ask you because you're also. You also have sensitive skin because you have psoriasis.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I know caldera Lab.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, does it dry me out?

[Sal DeStefano]

I was just gonna say, because one of the things that they. What they focus on is does this work with your skin? Does it balance out the microbiome or does it just strip your body or whatever? So you, you, you say no. It doesn't make it.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it does not drive me out at all.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, good. I know.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like dermatologist tested and they're. It's all plant based, and so it's all natural. But that's what blows my mind is I've. For the first time, I've tried all kinds of natural soaps. Like I said, I've never had one that lathers the way that does. And it lathers better than any chemical soap that I tried in the past. And so to me, it's like, I don't know how that doesn't. Doesn't fire you guys up the same way. And I'm like, what do you use? Sales? Like, I'm like, I mean, I've never even heard you talk about what you. What do you.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't. First of all, I don't even know.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think you watch your body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Talk about that.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think you wash your body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think you wash your body. I don't. I'm convinced you're. That's why you're oily.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm supposed to be oily. My skin makes natural.

[Justin Andrews]

Use that. I think you use that as like, pull the race card.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you're saying, here's why I don't talk about it. I've never been in a conversation. You're the only man I've ever met my entire life who in full on conversation with dudes is like, hey, I took a bath yesterday.

[Justin Andrews]

The soap.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, like. And I'm like, part of me is kind of like, this is weird. That's bold. What are we talking about here?

[Adam Schafer]

It's a bold move.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So that's why I never brought it up. Yeah, I use soap, dude, but I'll get some of the caldera lab. Anyway, I'm gonna change directions again. Dude, there's a study that's going viral right now. I'm gonna bring it up on male versus female concussion. Have you heard of that? Have you heard of this? Okay, Justin, I have it.

[Justin Andrews]

Interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so this is crazy. So. So here's what the. What the article says.

[Adam Schafer]

As long as we win. Cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

You had to throw that in there. Women or girls are up to twice as likely to suffer concussions as their male counterparts when playing the same sports under the same rules. Various. Various studies show.

[Justin Andrews]

Because we have thick skulls, by the way.

[Adam Schafer]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way. The reason why this is crazy is because the force at which men hit each other or, or hit the soccer ball or whatever is so much higher. Yeah. So you would expect men to have higher rate thicker skulls or what? No, it's because that the way that our brains work and the way they handle impact and the way they handle inflammation, it seems to be a lot better in men than it is in women. And so they're finding that there's. Those differences make a big difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I wouldn't even think that. I said that, but I wouldn't even think the thick skull would. Would help because it's really shakes the brain. Yeah, your brain, your brain's slamming to the inside of your skull. Anyways.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's neck muscles, brain micro architecture and the menstrual cycle. You know what's funny about this?

[Justin Andrews]

It's like we evolved to battle in wars.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's the deal. It's not neck muscles biology there. Although strong necks definitely can help. You know, when you have two professional soccer player men hitting the ball or running into each other or any other sport or boxers, the force at which we hit each other is so much higher that it doesn't make up the difference. It's, it's, it's the brain microarchitecture. And so they're like, you know, probably because we evolved with more getting blasted,

[Adam Schafer]

being a little more resilient to.

[Sal DeStefano]

With that. Yeah. This is important to know though, with sports. Yeah. It's funny because my, my daughter plays lacrosse. Is that the one? She plays lacrosse. And I know in women's lacrosse they're not allowed to hit each other.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like men's lacrosse.

[Caller Mike]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

And, and I think some people would look at that like, what's the difference? Let them. I think it's.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know that. I didn't know that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they have different rules. Yeah. They're not allowed to like physically. So in men's lacrosse, what is the, what are the rules? How can you guys. It's like hockey.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's just like hockey. I mean, and you could stick check, but it, it's like. Yeah, you can't actively like hit above the head.

[Sal DeStefano]

And can you run into each other?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah, you could sit, you could check. You can use your fighting for your. You can use your stickball.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. See, the girls aren't allowed to do that. Yeah, if you start doing that, they'll shoulder in.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, they're wearing pads, so it's, you know, it's all fair game. But. Yeah, I don't think the women wear like, shoulder pads.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, they were.

[Adam Schafer]

So, yeah, it's just helmet wear. Helmet and maybe like glove.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Pads. Oh, they don't, huh?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, because they can. They can check at the stick where the hands are, but they can't like body.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I can get this ball. I can get the ball out of your stick with my stick. Yeah. Unless I'm doing this wild swing. I think it is like this overhead. Then they'll call it. Yeah, but if you check each other, because I've seen this, my daughter plays. And they'll sometimes run into each other. They'll blow the whistle.

[Adam Schafer]

I dig it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they won't let them.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I was, I was in the impression it was the exact same rules as hockey.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

And hockey allows the shoulder full. You can do a check. You can do. You can't. What you can do is check in the back. In hockey. Hockey, you cannot have a guy turn around similar in that and check him in his back but squared up. You can check them.

[Adam Schafer]

The high stick.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's encouraged. You can't lift a stick apart above their head and come down so that. That. That be high.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this brings up another question. Is that because there was this. There was this article that. Everybody is so funny. When I. Every time I saw this article posted, I'd read the comments. I'm like, thank God nobody's buying this crap. It was the one that said that gender differences don't matter if the man transitions and then he plays sports with women, the performance. And they're trying to make this crazy argument that nobody believed and none of the data actually supports.

[Justin Andrews]

We've moved on from that, haven't we?

[Adam Schafer]

There still goes against biological science.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm like, you know what? Different brain architecture. Okay. So now we're all playing the same sport. We're boxing and I'm a dude, but I transition. We're going to punch each other in the head. There's a difference. Yeah, there's a difference with. With how that affects us. Safety. There's a safety difference.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You bring up boxing. So interesting. I just. Last night my uncle was. Brought this up to me. Did you. When Muhammad Ali died, did you know who did his eulogy?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Billy Crystal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I didn't know.

[Justin Andrews]

They were like super close friends.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, weird.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I had no idea. I watched it on YouTube. It's actually really good. If you ever had time to look up Billy Crystal does Muhammad Ali' eulogy. Yeah, totally random. I had no idea. So I like. He got his big break from Muhammad Ali. Another comedian couldn't come through. They were doing some award ceremony or something for Muhammad Ali. It was when. And Billy Crystal was like an unknown.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow. Really?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. Unknown. Somebody fell through. He happened to have a bit that he used to do, even though he was unknown, like. And so he's like, hey, this someone recommended.

[Sal DeStefano]

Muhammad Ali is one of my favorite. I. I love old box. I don't watch boxing anymore, but I like old boxing. He's one of my favorites of all.

[Justin Andrews]

He does this great thing. So I watched this first, then I went down the rabbit hole a little bit. Then the next thing I watched was he does a. He did this tribute when he was being, I think inducted to the hall of Fame or something. He was still alive. And it was called 15 rounds. So Billy. If you look up Billy Crystal, 15 rounds of Muhammad Ali and he does a full on impression and it's 15 rounds long. It's his life. It's really good. And he plays he. And he imitates a famous sportscaster and Muhammad Ali. And so he does both the voices and it's a story of his life and his fights.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you ever seen the interview where Mike Tyson is on Arsenio Hall? This will date me a little bit. This old talk show and Arsenio Hall, I think.

[Justin Andrews]

Is this when he gets Mike says something to him about being close to him or something like that?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that's a different one. No, that was with. Was that P. Diddy was sitting next to him.

[Adam Schafer]

Diddy was.

[Sal DeStefano]

He picked up his hand, he moved it over.

[Adam Schafer]

He was like trying to put his hand on it.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, but he asked Muhammad Ali. Sorry. He asked Mike Tyson, how would you do if you fought Muhammad Ali? And the reverence he had for Muhammad Ali. And Tyson doesn't like you ask if we fight anybody. Yeah, Especially back then. He'd be like, I'll kill him.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But he was like, oh, he's the greatest of all time. He had such a reverence.

[Justin Andrews]

He was there. He was there at that. That event too. You see him in the crowd when they do it. But yeah, it was a worthwhile watch. I thought it was really, you know

[Sal DeStefano]

what Muhammad Ali kind of pioneered in boxing or in all fight sports. Do you guys know, you know what he pioneered? Because obviously he was a great boxer talking. Yeah, of course.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nobody hype. Man. No, nobody did it before.

[Justin Andrews]

He was the greatest. Yeah. I mean, that's where he backed it up.

[Adam Schafer]

That's the thing. You can't like have that bravado and not back it up. Otherwise.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was his strategy against Sonny Liston. You know that, right? So Sonny Liston was dangerous and scary and Muhammad Ali knew that if he got in his head that he would just mess with him psychological war. And he just pissed them off so bad that Sonny Liston was, was off.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Do yourself a favor and watch that. It's only like a. It's like maybe 10 minutes or so. It's a short, it's a short little watch. But super worth was so. Well, I had no idea about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, we missed this prime, right. We all, we never got to see the best of Muhammad Ali ever.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. It was in three years he was in prison.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Because he was.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, you already know about Tyson too, right? Both him and Tyson spent their, some of their prime years of boxing in prison.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, well, Tyson did something well, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not saying one of them was a little less. Yeah. I'm saying that we missed out two of the greatest fighters of all time. We missed out on some of their, their greatest years of box.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you're a boxing. If you, if you never watched his Frazier fights, man, that is a war. Just watch those fights. They're super awesome. All right. I got this other study that's really interesting. So there was a study that was done asking women questions about attractiveness. So here's what the title of the study says. Cues of upper body strength account for most of the variance in men's bodily attractiveness. In other words, perceived strength accounted for or explained over 70% of the variance in male bodily attractiveness.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you mean by that?

[Sal DeStefano]

So when they're looking at bodies.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which one's more attractive? Yeah, that was the 70. 70% of it was perceived strength, which. That's like the vast majority of it. Right. It wasn't anything else. It was like, for the most part,

[Adam Schafer]

not just your good looking face.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was just literally like, he looks stronger, which is why. So he's more attractive.

[Justin Andrews]

Where the, where the, the beach muscle training come from too, where guys just hit, check chest and arms. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're like, you're going all in on that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying? She ain't seen my back. You don't know what a strong back looks like. Just chest and arms.

[Sal DeStefano]

So go, go, lift Some weights if you want to increase your attractiveness level and make more money. That's the other one. I don't think they talked about that.

[Caller Mike]

I mean, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

You know me. I used to joke about that all the time, about being all show and no go. Right? Just no. No girls ever asked me how much I bench press when I took my shirt off. As long as I look like I bench press is what mattered. So it's like I was.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was watching this. I don't remember how I got. It was like, on my algorithm, and this woman was sharing how unattractive it was. She was with this guy. And I forgot. I should have shown my wife this, because I'm like, is this true? She's like. She was talking about how she was with this guy and she saw him do something that every man in her life that she knew was good at, but she saw him and he was bad at it and immediately made her, like, not attracted to him.

[Justin Andrews]

What was that? I feel like you said. Did you share this before?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, but I was thinking about this. Like, if you grew up with dudes that could fix things around the house, like, dad is good at it. My brother's good at it. Then you get with this guy, and then you see him swing a hammer, and he's just like. Doesn't know what he's doing. Just imagine that would make you go, oh,

[Justin Andrews]

I thought. I thought that. I thought I saw something like that. But it was like, that's why I won't do housework. Oh, you know what it was? I shared this a long time ago. There was a funny clip. There's this great clip. I shared this on social media. Someone made this.

[Sal DeStefano]

This fun.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a. It's a guy and a girl, and they're walking on the. On the sidewalk together, and they're holding hands, and, you know, and she's, like, looking at them, and it's like, you could tell that they're in love and stuff like that. And it's like, got some funny music going or whatever. And all of a sudden, a ball. Like, some. Two guys were, like, throwing a football in the street, and it lands at his left.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller Salvador]

And.

[Justin Andrews]

And. And the guys, like, they make. And they do, like, a head nod like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Throw it at us.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, like, throw it. And he looks and he picks it up, and he's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because it's his left hand.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And she's like, yeah, like, into it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because his right hand was holding her.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he, like.

[Justin Andrews]

He throws it. It's like this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Don't do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Terrible throw. And the chicks like, just kick it, dude. Like at that moment, just let go

[Sal DeStefano]

of her hand and throw the ball way better. That's the real move than trying to throw with your leg. Yeah, yeah. It was such a great. I was talking to. I won't say too much, I won't call him out, but a friend, a family member, and she was talking about how she started dating this kid, this guy, so they're younger, and she told me this like, huge green flag. So they were walking.

[Justin Andrews]

Green flag.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a green flag.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

So they were walking and she goes. And we were walking on the sidewalk. And I was on the outside towards the road. He was on the inside. And he switched. He made me go on the inside. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, that's, that's, that's good old school chivalry. Yeah, dude. I'm like, he knew that. He knew to do that. That's great.

[Adam Schafer]

Appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, I want to talk about Ashwagandha because it's one of the main ingredients in organifies green juice. I have a friend of mine who has a high stress, valuable job does this. This saves lives, basically. And it's just his job. He tries to do everything he can to manage his stress, but he's often tired and stuff just because of the nature of his job. He does emergency work. And so it's just. It's a stressful job. He's been doing it for a long time. He's good at it. And so he was like asking me, like, what are things I can do that'll help? So of course we talked about, you know, diet, exercise, we talked about sleep. And those are things that he's aware of. And he's like, are there supplements that can help? And I'm like, the one with all the data is Ashwagandha. And so he's a. He's a smart guy. So he looked up the data, he comes back, he's like, I can't believe I'm not from. I wasn't familiar with this.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So he started using it regularly. And a couple weeks later he's like, I can't believe. I can't believe nobody told me about Ashwagandha. He's like, it feels like life changing for me.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you think that's the main thing in the green juice that people comment? Because it gets. Obviously. I mean, it was for the longest time. I don't even know if it still is or not. But for the longest time it's been Organifi's flagship product. I mean, that's what put them on the map. I remember our first experience with it. Up until that point, every green juice I tasted tasted like crap. It tasted amazing. Oh yeah, it felt good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Normal green juices tastes like. Like if you mowed the lawn and then juiced it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Disgusting.

[Justin Andrews]

And so, you know, it's obviously gotten tremendous reviews for such a long time. Do you think it's the ashwagandha that is the main. It has a lot of. It has a lot of good things in it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's better than just taking ashwagandha because ashwagandha is great. It's one of the main ingredients. But it also has the microgreens in there, things like chlorella, spirulina and other things that when you grind them up enough and you make them bioavailable, they just have all these benefits. They have all these digestive health benefits, anti inflammatory benefits. They help with digestion. It just feels good. So it's like one of those, like, can I improve? Is there a supplement I can take that will improve my body's ability to handle stress? That's also good for me. And of course this is a supplement so it doesn't replace diet, sleep and exercise. It's like, yeah, green juice. Green juice. Take that regularly.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I always thought it was a deficiency thing, but I think it is too. It's the, the calming of it, like with the, the stress management of it. For sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. That's what I noticed it the most. Yeah. When I like to use green juice the most is when I'm traveling because I just travel messes me up. If I'm traveling for the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

My sleep is off. Airplanes, I have like, I get motion sickness easy. So I'm get off the plane. I always feel kind of, kind of weird. And if I do the green juice, you know, it makes a big difference.

[Justin Andrews]

You. Any flights coming up? Are you flying anywhere anytime soon?

[Sal DeStefano]

We were talking about one. Well, yeah, we are going to Arizona.

[Justin Andrews]

What is that? Is that. That's in June.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I fly before that.

[Justin Andrews]

I got Miami.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, that'll be the big. That'll be the, the, the biggest talk I've done for mind pump for. In terms of length and amount of people.

[Justin Andrews]

So last year when you did it. So last year, we need to talk. It wasn't the main stage.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was not the main stage last year.

[Justin Andrews]

I thought it was.

[Sal DeStefano]

I thought it was last year. My second time. Okay. So I was on the main stage.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because the first year you weren't. You had such great feedback. They got such great feedback that he put you on it. Now, the difference between this. Now you're the opener.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So you went to a new place.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So you. You were. You were already though, on the main stage. I mean, last year.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

The crowd was. Was big.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But this was.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is a longer talk. And again.

[Justin Andrews]

Is it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. They want me to speak for 35 minutes, I think, which that's not really. I'm not worried about that. I could talk for a long time, 35 days. We're confident because the last talk was 20 minutes. And I remember being like, oh, man, I gotta make sure I cover this. And as I'm talking, there's a timer. And I started realizing, like, I'm right out of time, I better get through my slides. Yeah. Type of deal.

[Justin Andrews]

So I'm excited for that event. I mean, the fact that they rented like a whole place now, right. So they have. It's huge. Bigger than the Vegas one they had, which. That was huge.

[Sal DeStefano]

The whole peptide space is insane.

[Adam Schafer]

It's going crazy right now.

[Justin Andrews]

It's insane.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yes. It's getting so crazy. It's so interesting. Everybody there is a practitioner. Most people. So people who use peptides in their practice. So you're looking at like doctors, nurse practitioners, wellness practitioners. So a lot of the talks are really technical, like newest peptides combinations, how you can identify which ones you're your patients need, you know, that kind of deal. But of course, I'm not talking. I'm not speaking to that. I'm going to speak to.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you watch that clip I sent you last night?

[Sal DeStefano]

Which one?

[Justin Andrews]

You didn't.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a no.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the only one I sent you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, which one?

[Justin Andrews]

It's the only one I sent you.

[Sal DeStefano]

What was it?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I want you to look at that. I don't want to bring it up until you watch it because I want. I want you to. I want you to comment on it. It was. It was our buddies, Jordy and his buddy. They were interviewing a pharma guy and a. And a peptide bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was going to watch that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I want you to short, so in like minutes. So it's. It's not a long commitment.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you know what happens if I open a text and then it doesn't.

[Justin Andrews]

And you say, it's for me? Then you go, no,

[Sal DeStefano]

it's. He's trying to tell me to work more. No, that's not what it is. If I open it, my ADD is so bad. Right. And then I don't have the thing that says you should read it very quickly. I forget that it's there. So what, what I got to do and I do this sometimes is I'll remark it as unread.

[Adam Schafer]

We see that you saw it and didn't read it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you're like, you're like a kid.

[Justin Andrews]

I got to hide the vegetables inside this stuff. So I'm gonna have to find ways to like live pancakes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I gotta sneak the things I need

[Justin Andrews]

him to read or listen to into something else. So I gotta figure it out.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I am excited to speak to people who are using peptides because I think the con. The the conversation around how to use GLPs is so important.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah. So we can't remove the fitness and the nutrition elements.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude. I'm so crucial. I'm seeing more and more people lose weight successfully because that's what they do on a GLP and come out with other problems.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh I mean look at, look every our colors now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Osteoporosis.

[Justin Andrews]

It's rare that we do a week of callers and not at least two or three of them are not used. One of the GLP1s. I mean it's, it's because now and, and a lot of them had huge success like you said, losing losing weight. But so many people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Are losing a ton of muscle at the same time. And so I mean this is really. We've been having this, this conversation for well over a year now. Almost two years when we, for when we first started talking about it. And I know I was really early on very pro. In fact I used to argue for. I think the net. It's going to be net positive. So it's gonna be awesome. I, I'm, I'm back and forth now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. We've seen enough people entirely dependent on person their approach. That's right. It's entirely dependent on what else you do with it.

[Justin Andrews]

And unfortunately I don't have. From what I'm seeing, I've, I've lost faith in people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So when I started and I think this is recently for me when I started to see it, you know, penetrate the circles of friends I had that I would have never guessed would be using it is when I went oh wow.

[Adam Schafer]

So it's, it's just too cosmetic the reasoning and yeah. Really shouldn't be a reason.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I was, I was really hyped on it when I saw it with the people that were 300 pounds and struggled their whole life to lose weight. And it's like, this was a, and these people, this was like a huge, huge benefit to helping them quiet that noise and heading the. I mean, we've seen so many great success stories, success stories around that. As I started to see it introduced and being used by people I would never guessed, and then how they were using, I was like, oh, man, this is turning quickly. It's turning into anyone. And everyone is like, hey, this is a quick way to lose 10 pounds of people's baseline.

[Adam Schafer]

Now it's like, well, yeah, I'm on

[Sal DeStefano]

this, but I'm also doing this. Yeah, I'll predict this right now. I predict we're going to come out of an obesity epidemic into a frailty.

[Justin Andrews]

I agree. I think you're, I think you're right.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's gonna happen? Which brings me to another topic, because what they're now doing, this is just pharma does this. Right? Big pharma does this because this is what they know to do. I don't necessarily think that there's bad intentions or evil, although sometimes I think that's, that's the case. But what they do is they, they, they'll come out with an intervention, then that intervention will cause other problems. And then they come out, their goal is to come out with intervention to solve the problems that the first one caused. This is just what they do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so what you're seeing now is lots of money and research is beginning to pour into muscle building compounds. And the direction they're going is myostatin inhibition. So, and we've known this for a long time. Like if when you take an animal and you genetically modify them so that you knock out the milestone, they just build tons of muscle, crazy amounts of muscle. Like, it's silly how much muscle these animals build because they don't have this, this something called myostatin, which is essentially the brakes on muscle growth. So what they're doing is they're trying to come out with interventions that will inhibit myostatin because they're like, cool, we can combine this with the glp. It'll solve the muscle issue because they lose muscle on there, but they won't because they're on this myostatin inhibitor. But I've been doing research on myostatin inhibitors, interventions. So knockout animals, where they genetically modify them is a little different than what they would do with people. Obviously, they're not gonna, you know, you've got your genetics. So they would have to, they would have to Inhibit it through different means. And I looked this up in the animal studies and here's some of the stuff that they end up finding in them, which is interesting. So when the animals build more muscle through myostatin inhibition through an intervention, not genetically modified, but through an intervention we see reduced muscle quality. And one of the things they notice is what's called lower mitochondrial density. In other words, to put it differently, there is not a proportional increase in athletic performance and strength to the hypertrophy that they.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. Useless muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, so they build all this more muscle and athletic performance doesn't catch up to it or doesn't match it. And so they actually become less, less non functional meat it to, to an extent.

[Justin Andrews]

And I mean I would argue too that this is a. Will end up compounding too because if you have somebody who cares just about aesthetics and this thing gives them the aesthetics that they want, why should I go to the gym and lift any more weights? I've already.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm more.

[Justin Andrews]

And so you'll lose the good quality muscle from the little bit of whatever training you might have done during this time. Because now you have this intervention that gives you this kind of artificial looking muscle that's practically useless to you. I mean this is. We predicted this. You'll have obesity. Yeah, exactly. Well over a year ago we were predicting this and we talked to Dr. Seeds about it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I remember him saying that this is. That would be good looking weak people. But that's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like gaining 15 pounds of muscle but you're not strong.

[Justin Andrews]

But when I look at the people that are taking it to my. My point, those are the people that would want that who don't care. Well that would say like big segment of people. Yeah. It's like oh, I look good.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean what a perfect like plastic surgery.

[Justin Andrews]

What, what a perfect segue. How you start. You, you perceived strength is what is the. That's all people care is I, I look stronger and fitter.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And so I don't care if I have less or more mitochondrial health. I don't care if I can more

[Sal DeStefano]

weight or not weight.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you know as long as I look like I can.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you know what happens if you're heavier and you're not stronger? You're worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're just heavier.

[Adam Schafer]

It's more stress is going to add up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So my point with this is, is less of what you're saying because that's important. Not saying that's not important. That's for sure important. People are going to go down that path because they just look better, even though they're not better. But my point with this is it doesn't solve the problem, which is you're still gonna have to strength train. Yeah, you're still gonna have to work out. Yeah, you're on a myostatin inhibitor. Go work out still. Because we need it to be strong muscle. We need to be functional.

[Justin Andrews]

But what I'm saying is that, is that it's going to be so much worse because one of the safety cold, One of the signals that motivates people to go to the gym, in fact, the loudest signal that motivates most clients that we all train is the mirror. Is the mirror. I don't look good. I don't like the way I look. I would argue that 90% of those people that hire me wouldn't had hired me if they had this artificial signal that said I look pretty good. But I know I need to go to the gym. I know I need to go lift weights, because that's healthy for me or better for me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I don't give.

[Justin Andrews]

I look good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's the real question. Would you trade health to look better? And the answer for most people is yes. They do it all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

Or they would say no, but deep down, they would.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, their actions tell you the truth.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly. That's, you know, I think a lot of people would say no.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, think, look at the rest, the risky procedures and surgeries and things that people do totally in pursuit of looking. Looking for which. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, yeah, they want to portray that they have all those qualities. But then that's where we get to test it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, here's my prediction. Oh, less mitochondrial density. Here. Let's add this other thing that's going to increase mitochondrial density.

[Caller Jesse]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And let's figure out this other intervention. Now you're on science. Yeah. And it's like just, you gotta. Just, you gotta work out, dude. You gotta work out. Fatty 15 is a fatty acid supplement that contains the newest fatty acid that's being shown in studies to have tremendous health benefits. C15. There's over a hundred studies that show that C15 can slow down biological aging, reduce inflammation, make you healthier at the cellular level. It's amazing. It's definitely something people are going to benefit from supplementing with. No, it's not fish oil. It's a totally different type of fatty acid. I've been taking it for a while. I noticed less inflammation myself, and I'm already a healthy guy, so it definitely works. Go check them out. Go to fatty15.com mindpump. You can get an additional 15% off your 90 day subscription starter kit if you use the code mindpump. Back to the show.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Our first caller is Mike from Switzerland.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up Mike? How you doing Mike? What's happening?

[Caller Mike]

Hey guys, how's it going?

[Justin Andrews]

Good, good.

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Mike]

Yeah, well I got to tell you guys have helped me out a ton listening to the podcast. It's been super helpful with everything. So thanks for that for sure. But yeah, a little background. I'm 43 year old American, living in Switzerland, moved here about 10 years ago with my wife, we have two young kids and I've always been a bit overweight my whole life, even as a kid. I've been relatively active overall but never really worked out on a regular basis until about 18 months ago and started consuming information. Fell into your guys podcast and started to kind of dial in my routine and diet based off the advice you guys give and it's been really pretty fantastic. I lost about £50. So I'm 5 foot 7, I'm down to 165, really feeling quite good. Couldn't be really more happy about the whole thing, but hasn't been without some challenges. And so what I want to ask you guys about was the first issue which about six months into this, about a year ago, I had a herniated disc in my cervical spine which resulted in some pain in my shoulder and arm. I worked on it with the physio and he said basically the doctor thought it was due to looking at a computer screen and bad posture. So we worked on that and after about three months got back into lifting again. But my left tricep was really weak after all of that and so I took your guys advice. I've been running math anabolic. I've done it a couple times basically as written and I basically just shifted everything to unilateral instead of bilateral and let that left arm dictate the work. And I gotta say it definitely came back strong. And my left arm is stronger than before the injury, but the right arm, I'm still a new lifter, is also getting stronger so this is still a significant imbalance. Also my arms are kind of a stubborn body part. My calves are about 16 inches and the arms are barely 13. And then the last piece to throw on top before asking your advice is I fell off my bike and broke a couple of hands to my bones in my hand the other day. So that's the same hand that the arm that has the problem. So now I'm going to be sidelined for another three months. So any advice as far as dealing with the hand and overall, just dealing with the imbalance I have with that arm and the nerve issue would be greatly appreciated.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, keep doing what you're doing. So what you were doing is perfect and stay at it. I don't know how bad the nerve damage is and if it's, if there's going to be any lingering issues, but the way that you're training unilaterally and starting with the weaker arm is exactly where the right direction. If you want to build or develop a lagging, quote, unquote, lagging body part, the prescription is to build more muscle overall. So you're gonna increase your calories, hit your protein, and then what you would do is you would move volume away from body parts that you feel like are pretty well developed and kind of add it towards the lagging body parts. So if a, if a program calls for, you know, nine total sets for biceps during the week, and let's say you're very satisfied with your chest and you know it's calling for 12 sets for the chest, you could take three sets off that and put it to the arms and then just stay consistent and that's it.

[Justin Andrews]

You look great, dude. Doug just pulled up your, your transformation. You look great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you did a great job.

[Justin Andrews]

Doing a really good job. Where, where your calories at? Just curious.

[Caller Mike]

You know, I don't get too crazy about all the tracking and things. I can tell you one thing, if I do try to actually track for a day and I'm in the like 2, 500 range, I'm like super hungry. So I, I gotta guess some somewhere around 3, 000 on average.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, nice. Oh, good, nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, you're doing good.

[Caller Mike]

Yeah, but yeah, I, I, you know, make sure that first couple meals of the day, I try to get to at least 100 grams of protein. And I just don't get too crazy about the diet other than, you know, getting away from starches, focusing on protein and focusing on fiber and veggies. Other than that, I don't get too crazy with it. I just kind of let, let it kind of dictate where it's going to fall and, and go from there.

[Justin Andrews]

You're healthy, dog.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just got to stay consistent. Yeah, you just stay consistent, dude, and follow our programs and, and do the little, little volume swap pump. So a little bit more arm work, a little less, whatever you think is doing great work. So if it's with your legs or your back or your chest or whatever. And that's pretty much it. Just stay consistent and you'll see the things. You'll see the lagging body parts start to develop.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Feet. Feed yourself if you're hungry, give yourself food. Keep eating the way you are. But, like, if you don't deprive yourself, continue to fuel the workouts and try and get strong and can get stronger. You know, maybe. I mean, maybe switch up the programming if he's ran anabolic that many times in a row. Maybe. You have any of our other MAPS programs?

[Caller Mike]

No, I got that one. Used it. I liked it. And then I've been kind of just tweaking it based off the overall advice that you guys give.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Mike]

But, you know, I'd be open to trying something else if you thought that it would make sense.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you think about symmetry?

[Sal DeStefano]

Symmetry sounds like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're making adjustments like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Symmetry is right along the lines of. Of what you need to do anyway. Right. We'll send that to you.

[Caller Mercedes]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

But you're doing good, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it, man.

[Justin Andrews]

And obviously, you got to let the hand recover. I mean, that's obvious, right?

[Caller Mike]

Oh, yeah. I just. Do you have any advice on that as far as. Obviously, like, grip strength is going to be kind of last, so I'm not going to be able to do any deadlifts for a while. Is there anything in that other than obviously I wait for the doctor to tell me I can do things, but do you have any advice generally about dealing with that?

[Justin Andrews]

Do you use peptides?

[Caller Mike]

I don't. I'm generally not really interested in going crazy with. With any of those kinds of items. I do use creatine regularly, and I focus on eating the protein, but other than that, I don't subsidize or supplement.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I, you know, keep exercising what you can because that'll actually help with the atrophy in your hand. Yep. And that's pretty much it. Then you just wait. Wait till it heals.

[Caller Mike]

Okay. I know some people use, like, straps and things for grip, and you guys generally say not to do that because it weakens your grip. Overall, would you recommend just waiting till the hand can deal with it? Or would you say that in this

[Sal DeStefano]

case, how extensive is the. Is the break? Like, what are you able to do with that hand?

[Caller Mike]

Yeah, so it broke the. The fourth and fifth metacarpal, and I had to have surgery. And there's five screws and a plate on one bone, and there's wires in the other bone. So my guess is it's going to be three to four months, and then after that, it should be fine, I think.

[Sal DeStefano]

So here's the risk. So the risk is, if you use straps, you're gonna have to really not use your grip. What you don't want to do is cause any healing issues, especially with screws and wires. If you move things out of place, you'll be setting yourself for another surgery in the future. So you got to be really careful. I know it's a pain in the butt because you got to wait. And straps take some of the load off, but not all of the load, you know, so. And now there are hooks. You could use hooks that pull at the wrist, but I don't know how much pressure that'll place on the metacarpalsals, even from here. So I would just be really careful because you want the healing to be good. You don't want a screw to be poking out. You don't want the bone to be misaligned, because then what will happen is you'll be like, cool, I'm good. And then you're gonna have all kinds of problems later on. And that is a. That is a pain in the ass to. To have to continue to operate. Hands are just. You don't want to operate.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a short, short phase of your life to. To. To be down, and then you'll be right back versus trying to wrist it. I mean, we could get creative with, like, ankle cuffs that you put around your wrists and do, like, cable machines and do things like that. But it's like, I would just let yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

Slow articulations and just isometric, you know, type of work is, you know, but. But that very gradually work your way back. Yeah.

[Caller Mike]

Okay, so you. You'd basically suggest wait. Just wait it out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's right.

[Justin Andrews]

And then. And then.

[Caller Mike]

And then go back to what I was doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Then you don't run the risk of re. Injuring.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Caller Mike]

Makes sense.

[Justin Andrews]

Your body will bounce right back. I mean, we. We always worry about, like, oh, God, I'm gonna lose all that muscle.

[Caller Jesse]

You'll.

[Justin Andrews]

You'll bounce. It'll bounce right back real fast. Way faster than it was to get it.

[Caller Mike]

Sounds good. All right, well, I appreciate the advice, you guys, and, you know, really enjoy the show and everything. It's been super helpful. I. Before I started this 18 months ago, I never in my life thought I actually could, you know, get in shape. I was even in high school, I ran track, and I was pretty flabby. So understanding what you have to actually do to get in shape is. It's just so easy once you know what to do.

[Caller Salvador]

It's basic.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Caller Mike]

Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

[Justin Andrews]

You're in a great place, bro. Keep it up, Mike.

[Caller Mike]

All right. Have a good day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. I mean, a pretty. Pretty simple, straightforward advice. He's doing the right stuff. I think symmetry would be a perfect program.

[Justin Andrews]

You didn't want to follow up. You didn't want to push PPC over there, huh?

[Sal DeStefano]

He's. He doesn't want to touch.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, he's uninterested, but just lack

[Justin Andrews]

of knowing what it is, though. I said people. You know, why people think him. You think you're injecting, like, some sort of a hormone or something that's like,

[Sal DeStefano]

you know, you can also do oral bpc, but he's also in Switzerland, and I don't. I don't think they're available. Yeah, look that up.

[Justin Andrews]

Doug, what's. What's. What's the regulation, first of all here?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's kind of iffy. You can get a doctor prescription here, but it's still, you know, FDA tries to, on and off. They just let it, you know, go through again. Yeah. When you're talking about, like, socialized medicine, they're even more of a pain in the ass with that kind of stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You can buy peptides in Switzerland for research, laboratory or pharmaceutical.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So it's research purposes. So he's gonna have to go to the gray market, but he's like, he. Right out the gates.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I know. I just. I mean, when you talk about something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Speeding up the healing process, I mean, if that's something you're.

[Sal DeStefano]

See, thymus cut that time in half.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, if it's three months, you're talking about a month and a half. Yeah. I mean, so would I. So that's why I brought it up. But I don't want to push him on it. But it's also. I think a lot of times people just think it's something that. More than what it really is, you know?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Our next caller is Mercedes from British Columbia.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Mercedes.

[Caller Mercedes]

Hi.

[Sal DeStefano]

How are you?

[Caller Mercedes]

I'm good. How are you guys?

[Caller Jesse]

Good.

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Mercedes]

So I'll kind of go through my questions so that you guys can get a full gist of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, you got it.

[Caller Mercedes]

I'm 5:1. I'm about 102 pounds, 21% body fat. I've been stuck at this weight for a few years. Now I train with your course muscle, mommy. My lifts have all increased, but my actual gym body scans that I've been getting have said that I have not gained a single pound of muscle at all in the past about three years. But all of my lifts have gone up. I can do 12 unassisted pull ups, but I still haven't gained any muscle somehow. I strength train only I don't do anything else. No cardio or anything like that. I'm sitting most of the day for my job and I eat 2,800 calories a day at least.

[Caller Jesse]

Wow.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm getting like at least 140 grams of protein per day, like 95 grams of fats a day. Now I've upped it to 3,000 calories a day, which is really pushing it for me. I don't really know how my future is going to be sustainable because the more muscle mass you put on, the more metabolism. So I'm just going to be eating more and more and more food and I just, I don't know if I can eat any more food at this point. So I was just wondering what you guys thought that I could do to help with this.

[Justin Andrews]

First of all, what do you, what. Because you're in such an amazing place right now, that many calories, the body fat percentage, you're at the height, weight of strength. Strength. I mean, what do you want? What do you, what's, what are your goals?

[Caller Mercedes]

Gain more muscle. I want to, I want to get to like 110 one day, you know?

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow. Yeah, you're so. And you probably look, you probably look like a little jack chick in the gym. Yeah. Dude. You're doing well. I think you just got to be patient. Hunting.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Just stay patient because I could. Look, you could force it.

[Justin Andrews]

What are your lifts at? Tell us about your lifts.

[Sal DeStefano]

Should do 12 pull ups, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I know, I heard that. I heard that.

[Caller Mercedes]

I can do like do. Doing five by fives. I can bench press about £75.

[Justin Andrews]

That's solid. What's your deadlift squat look like?

[Caller Mercedes]

What's my deadlift? Well, I usually do RDLS, so I can do like 1 50, 150 for like 12 wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

RDLS.

[Caller Salvador]

Wow.

[Caller Mercedes]

Quad dominant. So I don't really usually squat too much so I usually do like one leg or like hack squat or stuff like that. But the actual machine weighs like 135 and I'm putting like two 45s on it. So my lifts are like pretty up there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hella strong.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you're really strong.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

Let's give how far muscle or something. Like, I'm not a farmer.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, no, no. Listen, you're doing well, so. Okay. So what's your health? Deep into muscle. Mommy. Are you.

[Caller Mercedes]

I've gone through it a few times, but I've changed a few of the exercises just because I didn't really like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, you want to follow mass power lift?

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah, I could definitely try that. Listen, do you think that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep, I do. Let me put you on maps. Power lift. Now, look, you could try forcing this. And what that's going to look like is eating 3200 calories. 3300 calories. 3500 calories.

[Justin Andrews]

She already takes a mass gainer.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're already taking a weight gainer. Yeah. You're petite. And here's what'll happen. You're going to start trading things like gut health for weight on the scale, and I don't think that's a good trade.

[Justin Andrews]

I definitely think you can swap your chicken breast for chicken thighs, though, so. Doctor.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah, doing that. Even though I kind of think chicken thighs are kind of disgusting.

[Justin Andrews]

No, really? Oh, my God, you're back. You're so backwards. You're so backwards on that. You guys are.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. You like ground beef?

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

What about beef?

[Caller Mercedes]

All the time. Lots of ground beef.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Enjoy some rib eyes and tri tip. Like fattier cuts of meat. It would be a way for you to creep the calories up without feeling like you're having to stuff yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

You take creatine?

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah, I do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

Five grams a day.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing everything right.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just stay consistent. Yeah. Be patient. How old are you?

[Caller Mercedes]

26.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You're young, too. So just stay patient. Stay consistent. You're going to slowly continue to build muscle. You've already got a lot of muscle. You're obviously very strong.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm so impressed that you do. You. Are you getting activity outside of your lifts in. Because you're a truck driver, so.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So you're not. You're. You're somewhat sedentary. I mean, you don't really want.

[Sal DeStefano]

Holy.

[Justin Andrews]

You have a crazy metabolism. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

I seriously do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, stay consistent and you're gonna do great. You again, you could force it. I don't think you're gonna like the way it feels. You're probably already feeling like you're eating a ton of food.

[Caller Mercedes]

I've tried that. Like, I've tried drinking, masking it before I go to bed, or like eating late at night. And then I Wake up in the morning, I'm so sick.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

I'm, like, worth it. No. Because I'm, like, throwing up or whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

So can I go over my fat intake?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. Hell, yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[Sal DeStefano]

Definitely throw olive oil on stuff. You can eat fattier cuts of meat. Absolutely.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah. So, like, let's say if I'm, like, 50, 30, 20, like, for macros, like, can I go, like, higher in my fats and, like, lower in carbs to help get more calories?

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, if you want. Or you can just keep everything the same and just bump your fats.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah, bump my fats.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You can afford more calories, obviously. So don't even drop your carbs. Keep your carbs where they're at. Just add more fat.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, it's easy to do. An easy way to do that. You eat vegetables.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah, sometimes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You throw some olive oil on it.

[Caller Mercedes]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Olive oil, butter, peanut butter.

[Sal DeStefano]

You eat rice, Put some butter in your rice. Like, that's an easy way to add a few hundred calories. Yeah.

[Caller Salvador]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

And that won't make me, like, gain lots of fat or anything like that?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, obviously not.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no. Where you're at, your metabolism is so on fire that it's, You're.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's the deal. You have. So here's the deal. When you're hitting adequate protein, which you are, you're eating 104 grams, 40 grams. You only weigh 100 pounds. You can. Bumping calories at that point is fat and carbs. It doesn't matter.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

[Sal DeStefano]

It doesn't really matter. So, yeah, go ahead, throw olive oil. Throw some butter on there. I'm gonna advise that you don't try to force this. And just, Just stay consistent. Follow mass, power, lift. Get strong.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have fun with it. And you'll, you'll, you'll keep gaining muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

Okay. So should I be, like, bleeding my scans that I've been getting at the gym?

[Justin Andrews]

No, I would, I wouldn't even. You're. You're. You've told me enough already with your macros, your strength numbers, or like that, that, like, you're. You're doing perfect. I wouldn't get hung up on what that says.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah, okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, just keep. Just keep getting stronger in the gym. And, and that's going to. And keep pushing those calories comfortably. And. And that's going to serve you. And. And know this, too. You're. You're. You are 26. You still have many years of gains ahead of you.

[Caller Mercedes]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So. Yeah, yeah. I mean, 30s to go. Yeah. I mean, my best physique didn't happen until my 30s. And so. Yeah. So you. You still. You still have gains ahead of you. So just be consistent. Keep doing the thing, and you're going to continue to build. You will.

[Caller Mercedes]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Mercedes]

I appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good job.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. We'll send you power lift.

[Caller Mercedes]

Okay. Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, guys. Me too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Every once in a while.

[Justin Andrews]

That's great.

[Sal DeStefano]

I guarantee you it broke. I guarantee you.

[Justin Andrews]

She's got to look jacked.

[Sal DeStefano]

She probably looks like.

[Justin Andrews]

I want to see a picture of her, Doug.

[Sal DeStefano]

She probably looks like a gym.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I couldn't find her.

[Justin Andrews]

Now she has to.

[Sal DeStefano]

She probably looks like one of those.

[Justin Andrews]

She has to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't. You cannot sit in a truck all day long.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Sitting.

[Justin Andrews]

And only be 5:1 and 100 pounds and eat 3,000 calories. And not like. Be it. Like. She has got a.

[Sal DeStefano]

She says she has visible abs at 21 body fat, which tells me she's got good muscle.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. And here's the deal. Like, when you're. And this doesn't happen that often, typically we're working with people who are struggling, getting leaner, or women who are afraid to eat more. But when you're working with someone who's trying to build muscle and they're already eating a lot, I mean, you could definitely force it, but there comes a point where it's not worth it.

[Justin Andrews]

No, that's. I mean, that's how you and I both got gut issues.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, that's exactly how we got gut issues. Is. Was trying to push so hard of

[Sal DeStefano]

getting bigger in spite of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly right. No, she's just keep doing it. She's still young, 26.

[Caller Mike]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I didn't. We didn't ask her when she started lifting, but, I mean, say she started in her.

[Sal DeStefano]

She's gonna. I mean, up until she's in her 30s, she's gonna be building some muscle.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Our next caller is Jesse from Australia.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, what's up, man?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing, Jesse? Hold on.

[Caller Jesse]

Hey, how you doing, boys? How the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are we? Good, brother.

[Justin Andrews]

How are you?

[Caller Jesse]

Good, good. I'm so excited. Sorry, I'm just. This is crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

How to help you? How can we help you, man?

[Caller Jesse]

Okay, like, about 10 weeks ago, I agreed to fight boxing. I was doing it once a week. It's like a PT thing. I like the skill. And then to. To get back into it. Did it for about six months, fell off for about a year, and A half weights was always consistent but wanted to come back to it because I really enjoyed it. Like the, the I don't know, I guess progression. Every week I'm getting better and yeah, then my coach was like, you should fight. And I was like, ah, I know. And he's like, we got a fight night, you should do it. And I was like, ah, okay, so agreed to it. That's when I sent the question. So that was about 8ish weeks ago. So the fight is literally next Saturday. Oh, not this Saturday, but next Saturday coming for you. Yeah. So it was more, the question was more about like training for it and I guess how I do everything else. At the time I thought I'd have to cut weight. I'm about 70. I was at the time like 71, 72 kilos. Now I'm at 69. The cap weight was at 72. So we're both good. Me and my opponent are both good. We both trained at the same gym, we spoke to each other. So we're both good weight wise. Don't either cut all sweet. Yeah. So I don't know. So I guess the question sort of now gone to I don't know, how do I keep training weights wise if I want to. Also keep doing boxing because I really enjoy it. It might not be three days a week like I am now because I'm sparring a couple times a week and doing skills one on one and stuff like that. And I've dropped my weights down to twice a week and I'm doing maps performance advanced and I'm in the second phase for more like speed, power, explosiveness, stuff like that. And it's, you know, I just thought two days a week. Don't go crazy, but keep it there. So I got the speed, I got the power. Everything else was cardio and boxing. Focused for boxing. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So don't change a thing, bro. You're killing it.

[Sal DeStefano]

How many days?

[Justin Andrews]

Two days a week.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're gonna keep boxing two days a week?

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, he's trains two days a week. Strength training, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But.

[Caller Jesse]

Yes, but.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, you're doing three days a week now leading up to the fight. What do you plan on doing after with boxing?

[Caller Jesse]

Honestly, I don't know. I don't know because this is like a. I wasn't really planning on fighting, so this is like I'm scared to do it. I should do it. One of those things, you know, you should always do something that you don't want to do every now and then. But. But yeah, so I, I would like to keep going with it, but of course me and my body dysmorphia brain are like, nah, I need to be like as big as possible. You know, I need to keep doing the weights, but I really enjoy it and you know, like seeing like, you know, like sell your, your series and stuff and talking about like your, you know, your issues with like, you know, the weights and trying to be as big as possible and all that kind of stuff. Like, I was always like a lot skinnier than I am now. The start. The photo of me holding a lightsaber is, is proof. You guys see that. They might show you that that's when I was like 18, like barely touch the weight. So. And I have other photos too. There's an SG in there for you, Justin.

[Justin Andrews]

Nice.

[Caller Jesse]

But yeah, so it's, it's good to challenge that as well. Like I, as well as, you know, being self, self conscious about that kind of stuff can really with shit and that's annoying. And it also, it's good for staying consistent and you know, motivation is temporary, but discipline is forever, which is great, but at the same time, you know, at some point you gotta let go of that stuff and just do what makes you happy as well. It's good to be strong and fit and all the other stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

But. Yeah, well, Jesse, if you're, if you're eating right, you're getting good sleep, you seem like you're fit, healthy guy, give yourself four days a week and then, and then you could switch, you could, you could trade, train those four days a week how you want. So if it's two days boxing, it's two days lifting. If it's three days boxing, it's one day lifting. If it's three days lifting, it's one day boxing. And then it's up to you what you want, what you enjoy doing, and that's what it'll look like.

[Caller Jesse]

Cool. Awesome.

[Caller Salvador]

Yeah.

[Caller Jesse]

Sweet.

[Justin Andrews]

I like the idea of you boxing because of your self awareness around the body image stuff, which I can relate to. Sal can relate to, the guys can relate to that. But keeping you focused on like a sport like that is a healthier relationship with exercise, in my opinion. And so I think it's a good, a good way to have checks and balances and. You look badass, bro. I mean.

[Caller Jesse]

Oh, thanks.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, you're, you look, you look great. So. And you're moving and obviously if you're boxing, you're moving well too. So, you know, I, I regret losing basketball. You know, I. That's Something that I wish I was still playing right now. And so if it's something that you can keep going and keep doing, I. I'd keep. I'd keep boxing. Even if it's not at the level of fighting somebody, at least doing it because you love to do it for as long as you can.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I used to. I used to play Aussie footy and then that stopped because of COVID and all that kind of stuff. But I played from, like, literally, I don't know, maybe like Oz Kick or like, whatever it is for you guys. Like peewee football.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Jesse]

You know, like, as soon as you're like, you know, four or five years old, all the way up until, like, you know, maybe like, I was 24, almost 25, so that just got, like, too fatiguing. I just don't. And also, I go for a football team. We haven't won a premiership in, like 30 years. So I'm just like, you know, don't go for. Don't go for Carlton. If you go for a football team also, maybe please do. Please. We need more supporters.

[Sal DeStefano]

But.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah, so that. But that was like a. That was a. Yeah, that was a big part of my life. And then that's sort of gone. But it's weird to just sort of like, not have the passion anymore. But that was like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller Jesse]

Boxing is something else that I found it in.

[Justin Andrews]

Lean.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Lean into boxing is a really good check and balance for. For how you feel with strength training. It really is because you get too big and bulky. You'll feel it in the boxing. You know, boxing requires a nice level of stamina. I like the mix. I think it's great. And then it's up to you what your mix looks like throughout the week. You know, if it's once a week or two or three days a week with lifting.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they work well together.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they do. And throughout the year, you can. You can toggle the focus. So it's like some half the year you're heavy in the boxing. And so it looks like three days a week of training in that. Only one day lifting. And then you're like, all right, I've been boxing for a while. Kind of want to get big again. And then you switch back to muscle. Three days of lifting and only one day of boxing. So I like that kind of rule of stay within this, like, four days of kind of intense type of training and be toggling between whatever your focus is leaning that way. And then if you want to balance, you Split it down the middle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Caller Salvador]

Yeah.

[Caller Jesse]

Awesome. Yeah. No, that's cool. That's so good. There's one. One small other thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Jesse]

Because my sleep is usually decent, I put a lot of effort into my sleep routine, especially like blue light blocking glasses, all that kind of crap and, you know, like, devices and all that. But staying asleep is another thing because I'm a very light sleeper. I sleep with my Mrs. In bed, obviously, but we also have two dogs. Whenever they move them up, if they get up in the middle of the night, I'm up. Is there anything you guys recommend on deep sleeping? I do have an eight sleep that I bought off a mate, which has been amazing.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Caller Jesse]

Staying cool because I just run hot all the time, but in terms of actually staying in deep sleep, I haven't checked my sleep before. I got like six and a half hours, but I woke up like five times during the night. So it's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

You could try. Yeah, so you could try glycine, theanine, magnesium, magnesium before bed. And then white noise or earplugs.

[Caller Jesse]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some people do really well with that. Like. Like the white noise just keeps them asleep. Or the soft earplugs that you put in your ear and then you're. You're good.

[Adam Schafer]

I do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You do that?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Earplugs.

[Caller Jesse]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah, I think I might have to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Dude. It's because then your dogs moves and stuff and you don't. You don't register it while you're sleeping. Yeah. Are you.

[Justin Andrews]

If you haven't tried, Brain fm, mess with that too, though. I think that's. I'm more of a Brain FM guy than I am the earplug guy. So I like.

[Caller Jesse]

I. I listen to Brain FM every night.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

There you go.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And then mess with, like, Sal said, the supplements. I do the same stack, he just said, and I sip on some chamomile tea. That's kind of my routine before I wind down before bed. Helps out, by the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sometimes waking up a lot in the middle of night means you're training a little too hard. Just. Just an FYI. So another thing you experiment with is reducing the volume of your training. And then if your sleep improves, then, you know, that was the issue.

[Caller Jesse]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Shit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, good luck on your fight, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller Jesse]

Thanks. I appreciate it. I put a. A picture of. They actually made like, cards, like fight posters as well, which I wasn't expecting, so there's actually that as well. Picture of my dogs, picture of my Mrs. I don't know, you guys just been. You've been such a massive, big part of my life, obviously, with the one pump hat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I appreciate that, man.

[Caller Jesse]

Dude, like, I just, like, I don't know. I found you guys, like, as soon as Covid hit, you had, like, clips and stuff recommended on, like, YouTube shorts, and I was like, this is perfect. Like, you know, podcast only about fitness, but it's actual good. And these guys are all jacked, too, you know? Yeah, yeah, you guys have changed, like, the way I think about everything, like, to all my friends, like, I'm the fitness person, obviously, but, like, they come to me for advice, but I feel like I can actually give proper advice because I've listened to almost every single old episode you guys have done and, like, almost every single single new one and listen to that many live callers. I feel like I can also just be like, nah, you should do this, and, like, focus on that. That's great body, you know? So appreciate it. Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller Jesse]

Thank you guys so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you so much.

[Justin Andrews]

Good luck, man. Go whoop his ass.

[Caller Jesse]

Thanks, boys.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, dude, that's cool. He's doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It might, you know, it might be that he's pushing the limit a little bit with his training, and that's just the common thing if you're a young man or, you know, you're fit and you get that kind of wake up throughout the middle of the night. Could be that. Could also be that you're a light sleeper. Some people's brains register noise and it brings them out. And earplugs. Is that you, too? It makes a difference. So. But he's doing good.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Our next caller is Salvador from California.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, what's up, man?

[Justin Andrews]

What's happening?

[Caller Salvador]

Hey, how's it going, guys?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good, good. All right, how can we help you?

[Caller Salvador]

I'll just read the question. I get a little lost. All right, so said. Hi, fairly new, listening to the podcast. Looking into getting a workout program for. Need a little help choosing? I did football and wrestling in high school, graduated 2015, graduated at 220 pounds. After a couple years, I went up to 280 or 290. 2018, I lost 60 pounds in about six to eight months doing just, like, hit workouts and like, mile and a half runs. And then during the pandemic, I kind of gained it all back. I was getting free money and postmates was. Was there, so. And November 2025, I was at 282 again. And since I've dropped to when I sent the emails at 258 around there. I'm currently at 248, but I kind of hit a plateau, like a really bad Plateau around 255. I was stuck there for a couple months and I've been, I've still been floating at that weight. Haven't really dropped too much. My current, my goal is to drop to 220 by July. I'm trying to compete in a 50 kilometer mountain bike race in October and I want to be in that weight range. That way I can kind of ride the bike a little easier. Uphills and downhills. At the moment, I'm eating 180 grams of protein a day, around 17 to 2,000 calories daily. My workouts are like 30 minute cardio and then 5 minute jump rope and then I'll do like four compound workouts. Three of my workouts and I'll do two to three times a week.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you're starving yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're eating too little.

[Justin Andrews]

Way too little. Way too little.

[Caller Salvador]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. And how, how, how dead set are we on this mountain bike challenge?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's in October.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it's in.

[Caller Salvador]

Yeah, it's in.

[Justin Andrews]

It's enough.

[Caller Salvador]

That's October.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, we're good.

[Justin Andrews]

Because. Yeah, I wouldn't even want you focusing on that right now. You need to, you need to build. We need to build, build muscle right now. And you're not going to do that at 1700, 2000.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, here's the deal. If you want to get down to 220 by October and lose body fat, you're gonna have to eat more now.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're not gonna cut now.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you could, you could still train, work out, do everything that you're doing, but build into a leaner physique because there's nowhere to go. Your calories are so low, if I cut you more, you're gonna have just a total decrease in performance. You're going to lose muscle. I would immediately bump you up to about 2,400 calories.

[Justin Andrews]

25 at least.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right out the gates.

[Justin Andrews]

Right out the gates. 2500.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it. And just, and just keep working out. And what you're going to notice is more energy, more strength. You're going to start to feel better and stay there for a little while. And then when everything feels good, it bump it up again.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, what I'd want to hear from you and what we should see after you go to that 2500 is relatively quick. We should start to see your lifts in the gym go up, which also too. I want to give you a program of ours and I want to make sure I tell this that you need to rest between. So the way you've lost the weight in the past with HIIT training and running is the opposite philosophy of what you've probably heard us communicate and talk about. So when I give you maps anabolic to follow, you need to rest for a minimum of two and a half to three minutes between sets. So you got, you got to sit still. No doing shit like crazy or no like, oh, I'm ready to go and go right into it. You need to rest and your goal is to put more weight on the bar, more weight on the bar over week over week. So the first thing that I should see is strengths go up significantly in all the big compound lifts that you've been doing. That should be the first thing we notice. Second thing we're going to notice is appetite increase and I want you to feed it. So if you're already at 2500 and you actually start to notice you're getting hungry and strength is going in the gym, I actually want you to go up in calories again. That's your metabolism starting to kick up and your body wanting to build muscle. And where you're at calorie wise with the amount of activity and the size you are is not enough calories to build 10 pounds of muscle on your body. And we need to build 10 pounds of muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stick to clean food, keep eating whole foods and just feed yourself while you get stronger, bro. By the way, you're not just going to notice a jump in strength. Your endurance is going to go up too. By bumping your calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You're not taking enough, enough energy guy your size to do to have any kind of good athletic performance. What you're noticing right now is like your body's surviving. That's why he doesn't want to lose any body fat.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's why it's hit a plateau. It's hit a hard plateau because it's like we can't, we can't go.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you go 24, 2500 calories right now, you stay there for a while, you'll feel good. Then you go up another 200 calories and then, then probably three months before October, you'll probably get yourself up to about 3032, 3300 calories by that point. And then you want to do a cut, you go down to 2500 calories

[Justin Andrews]

and you'll just lose call, call us back in three months. Do what we're telling you to do right now, we're going to give you anabolic bump to 2500. If you get hungry, go up to 2700, focus on getting strong, get those long rest periods. And then in three months, I, we should, we should have shown you a significant difference by that advice alone. And then we'll give you the advice from there to get ready for your, your, your 50k mountain bike thing.

[Caller Salvador]

Got it.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you. Does that sound cool?

[Caller Salvador]

Yeah, sounds good.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, let's do it. Let's do it. Thanks, man.

[Caller Salvador]

All right. Thank you, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I like what Justin said with the. Just kidding.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, nice job.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, bro, he's way too low.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, bro, way too. Your body is, is holding on for dear life to every bit of stored energy. When you're working out that much and your calories are that low and you're that big of a guy, you know, he's two. What do you say? He's at 200, 248. Yeah, he's 248. Big dude.

[Justin Andrews]

And he's doing cardio.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's doing a lot of working out. He's eating enough to just to hold on to everything. There's nothing's gonna happen.

[Justin Andrews]

So. Yeah, no, it's a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.