2853: How to Build 5 Pounds of Muscle in 30 Days (Step by Step)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2853 — "How to Build 5 Pounds of Muscle in 30 Days (Step by Step)"

Date: May 8, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew shares a comprehensive, science-based strategy to aggressively build up to 5 pounds of muscle in 30 days. The discussion is aimed at listeners who are not beginners, but rather experienced lifters who have already accrued significant muscle mass and may be stuck at a plateau—a notoriously tough demographic to eke out fast muscle gain. The conversation weaves in personal anecdotes, relevant studies, practical programming, and lifestyle adjustments, while maintaining the crew’s blend of no-nonsense expertise and banter. The latter part of the episode covers related listener questions and broader conversations about fitness culture, nutrition, mental health, and trends in training.

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Main Theme:

How to Build 5 Pounds of Muscle in 30 Days (Is it Possible & How to Do It Step by Step)

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting Expectations: Who Can Actually Gain 5 Pounds in a Month?

• Beginners vs. Veterans:
  • “For the beginner to build five pounds of muscle in a week, not that hard.” – Sal (02:20)
  • “The most difficult person this would be for is ... you've been consistent for the last two years ... trying to add five more pounds of muscle. That is difficult.” – Adam (02:30)
• Muscle Memory Factor:
  • If you’re coming back after time away, gains can be rapid due to muscle memory.
  • Adam recalls regaining over 20 pounds in his first month back (03:53–04:25).
    • “To see what happened to your body in the first 30 days, it blew my mind.” – Sal (03:22)
    • “I was only doing two lifts a day.” – Adam (03:31)
  • For already-consistent, advanced lifters, this is a very aggressive goal.

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2. Essential Steps for Fast Muscle Gain

Step 1: Start with a Deload Week (05:36–09:06)

• Deload (or complete week off) is crucial to reset the body and maximize responsiveness.
• Frequent trainers tend to slip into training what they can tolerate versus what is ideal, stalling progress.
• Well-controlled studies show ~29% more strength/muscle gain when regular deloads are used.
  • “Have you been training for three to six months and not taken a full week off? Maybe try it and see what happens.” – Adam (08:23)
• Practical approach: Cut volume and intensity in half or use their 7-Day Overtraining Rescue Guide.

Step 2: Dial in Your Nutrition — Protein & Calories (09:06–12:39)

• Protein:
  • Aim for more than 1g protein per pound of target body weight (suggested 1.2–1.5g/lb).
    • “Bump your protein even higher ... the data suggests this will ... contribute to more muscle gain.” – Sal (09:13)
• Calories:
  • Aggressively increase calories for bulk—women: 400–600+, men: 700–900+ over maintenance.
  • Must be a true surplus, not a slow reverse diet.
  • Prefer carbs for muscle gain, but ensure essential fat minimums (60g+ for women, 80g+ for men).
    • “In my experience, people tend to build more muscle when the carbs go up a bit, but that’s not true for everyone.” – Sal (11:49)

Step 3: Sleep: Prioritize Rest Every Day (12:39–15:23)

• Consistent, high-quality sleep is non-negotiable for accelerated muscle growth.
• No late nights, same routine every day, including weekends.
  • “If you really want to gain five pounds of muscle in 30 days ... your sleep needs to be great every single night.” – Sal (12:39)
  • “You don’t build muscle in the gym. You build muscle when you eat and sleep.” – Adam (13:32)

Step 4: Change Your Lifting Stimulus — Novelty is Key (15:23–17:25)

• Dramatically change training style to provide a novel muscle-building signal.
  • Change split (e.g., from body part splits to full body), alter rep ranges, or try new formats (strength, powerlifting, unilateral/multi-planar, performance).
  • “The more novel you go here tends to get the best results.” – Adam (15:49)
  • Use a program most different from your usual approach.
  • Recommended MAPS programs: Anabolic, PPL, Strong, Powerlift, and Muscle Mommy (17:13).

Step 5: Be Okay with Gaining Some Body Fat (17:25–17:59)

• Aggressive muscle gain comes with fat gain—accept it or choose a slower pace.
  • “If you’re scared of gaining an ounce of body fat, you have no business trying to gain five pounds of muscle.” – Sal (17:25)
  • “If you gain five pounds of muscle and two pounds of body fat, you did great.” (17:42)

Step 6: Supplements (18:00–19:46)

• Not a major driver, but helpful for supporting surpluses or meeting protein goals.
  • Core recommendations: Creatine, protein powder (whey or egg-based), essential amino acids, multivitamin.
  • For extra calories, “make your own mass gainer shake” (e.g., with peanut butter, banana, whey/egg, and milk).
• “Supplements don’t play a huge role, but we should list ... best supplements for gaining mass.” – Sal (18:00)

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3. Related Fitness, Nutrition & Culture Banter

Prisoner Ingenuity & the Power of Boredom (23:57–26:32)

• Entertaining discussion about prisoner inventions and the ingenuity born from boredom.

The "Boring Diet" Trend & Appetite Management (26:32–30:32)

• Viral trends on eating repetitive, boring foods for weight loss (“boy kibble” — ground beef and rice).
  • “When you make things unpalatable, you eat less.” – Sal (28:36)
  • “Boredom [in diet] ... is actually a great way to hack your appetite.” – Sal (28:46)

Hydration & Mood/Energy (Study in Young Women) (37:47–41:50)

• Just 1.36% dehydration makes tasks feel harder; more likely headaches/fatigue (38:18).
  • “In young women, just 1.36% dehydration makes tasks feel 58% harder ... fatigue 17% worse, headaches twice as likely.” – Sal (38:21)
• Real-world impact: higher water intake helps pain, energy, cravings.

Fasting & Protein (44:21–45:58)

• The roots of fasting are spiritual, not aesthetic.
• Occasional protein or water fasts can have measured benefits, but aren’t practical for general population clients.

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4. Mental Health & Community: Politics, Church, and Social Media (48:01–61:14)

Political Identity & Mental Health (48:01–53:56)

• Strong Democrats among young people report radically higher rates of mental health issues vs. strong Republicans (56% vs. 15%).
• Hypothesize multiple causes: values, support systems (church/pastor vs. therapist), anxiety focus, loss of traditional structures, etc.

The Power of Real Communities (54:44–61:15)

• Study: Adolescents deeply involved in church communities are largely immune to growing trends in youth anxiety and depression.
  • “The kids that were most active in a church community almost had no effect ... almost no rise in anxiety and depression.” – Sal (55:22)
• The decline in face-to-face, purpose-driven community is a root cause of many youth mental health issues.
• The gym (and fitness community) can fill some of this need.

Letting Kids Take Risks & Parent Roles (61:14–64:29)

• Dads typically encourage more risk-taking; moms more protection.
• Healthy development requires manageable exposure to risk and independence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you’re scared of gaining an ounce of body fat, you have no business trying to gain five pounds of muscle.” – Sal Destefano (17:25)
• On the magic of muscle memory:
  • “To see what happened to your body in the first 30 days, it blew my mind.” – Sal (03:22)
  • “I was only doing two lifts a day.” – Adam (03:31)
• On sleep:
  • “You don’t build muscle in the gym. You build muscle when you eat and sleep.” – Adam Schaefer (13:32)
• On hydration study:
  • “In young women, just 1.36% dehydration makes tasks feel 58% harder ... headaches are twice as likely.” – Sal (38:21)
• On diet trends:
  • “When you make things unpalatable, you eat less.” – Sal (28:36)
• On accepting fat gain:
  • "If you gain five pounds of muscle and two pounds of body fat, you did great." – Sal (17:42)
• Political/marriage/mental health:
  • “Strong Democrats are more likely to go to therapists, strong Republicans to pastors/church … people who go to church community do better.” – Sal (51:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:46 — Launching the main topic: Can you build 5 pounds of muscle in 30 days?
• 03:53–04:41 — Adam’s 23 pounds regained in one month (“muscle memory”).
• 05:36–09:06 — Why a deload week is step one.
• 09:06–12:22 — Diet: Protein and calories for bulking.
• 12:39–15:23 — Sleep and its impact on results; personal stories.
• 15:23–17:25 — Switching up training stimulus (programming).
• 17:25–17:59 — Accepting body fat gain during a bulk.
• 18:00–19:46 — Supplement recommendations.
• 37:47–41:50 — Hydration, energy, and a key study on women.
• 48:01–53:56 — Political leanings and mental health in youth.
• 54:44–61:15 — Community, church, kid mental health resiliency outcomes.

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Listener Questions (65:28–76:23)

1. How often do you deadlift? (65:28–68:54)

• All hosts currently deadlift infrequently (~monthly or intermittently) due to injury risk and diminishing returns at advanced level.
  • “For me, the deadlift ... risk is really high now.” – Sal (65:33)

2. Should active workers (e.g., blue collar) still train in the gym? (69:47–72:09)

• Yes, but focus on corrective exercise and movements that counter repetitive job-related imbalances, not hard workouts.

3. Can intermittent fasting be used strictly for calorie deficit? (72:11–74:13)

• Technically yes, practically not ideal for most. Often leads to dysfunctional eating patterns over the long term.

4. Is it realistic to be a part-time personal trainer? (74:13–76:23)

• Rarely works; success is highly unlikely unless you train friends/family or don’t depend on the income; better to fully commit with financial preparation.

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Tone & Style

• Direct, honest, science-based advice: Hosts bluntly critique fitness myths and reinforce their strategies with both research and in-the-trenches experience.
• Casual, humorous banter: Frequent personal anecdotes, self-deprecating jokes, and friendly arguments about food, carbs, and childhood.
• Practicality first: Emphasis on what works in real life, not chasing the trendy or theoretical.
• Community-centered: Highlights importance of social connection, both in and out of the gym.

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Summary Table: Step-by-Step Guide to Gaining 5 Pounds of Muscle in 30 Days

| Step | What To Do | Notes | |-----------------------------|--------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1. Deload Week | Dramatically reduce volume/intensity | Reset for more adaptive phase, proven to increase strength/muscle over time | | 2. Increase Protein | 1.2–1.5g/lb bodyweight | Go higher than your usual intake | | 3. Caloric Surplus | +400–600 cals/day (women), +700–900 (men) | Aggressive 4-week bulk, prioritize whole foods | | 4. Optimize Sleep | Consistent, high-quality every night | Maintain routine, no late nights/weekend "cheat" sleep | | 5. Novel Training | Change program split, rep range, stimuli | MAPS programs or similar; choose one most different from your norm | | 6. Accept Fat Gain | Don’t fear some added fat during bulk | Success = more muscle, some fat inevitable | | 7. Smart Supplementation| Creatine, quality protein, amino acids | Mass gainers better homemade |

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For anyone wanting to break through a muscle-gaining plateau aggressively—and willing to pay the cost in discipline and a little extra bodyfat—this episode offers an evidence-driven, actionable playbook with sharp insights and a healthy reality check. The hosts’ experience-driven wisdom and candid delivery make the listening as useful as it is entertaining.

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Transcript

[Doug]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal Destefano]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Adam Schaefer]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer

[Sal Destefano]

and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered listeners questions at the end of this podcast, but we started with a 61 minute intro where we talk about fitness and fat loss, muscle gain, we talk about current events and family life. By the way, if you want to give a question that we might pick for an episode like this, go to Instagram. It's mindpumpmedia now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Legion. They make high quality supplements for muscle gain, fat loss and athletic performance. Go check them out. Get yourself a huge discount. Go to buylegion.com mindpump use the code mindpump and you can buy one get one 50% off. This episode is also brought to you by Butcherbox. They deliver high quality meats to your door. Grass fed meat, wild caught fish, heritage pork at great discounts. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump on that link. New users will get your choice between chicken breast for a year, top sirloin for a year, or ground beef included in your box for life, plus $20 off at checkout. Also this month by any Maps 15 style workout program. Get another one for free. So buy any Maps 15 program. Pick any one for free. Go to maps15bogo.com all right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to my pumpstore.com that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, you have 30 days. You want to build muscle. Is it possible? Can you build five pounds of muscle in 30 days? It might be. We're going to give you the steps. Let's get to it.

[Justin Andrews]

£5 in 30 days? Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's a, that's actually a really good. I mean, first off, let's not act like it's easy. Five pounds of muscle in 30 days is, is. That's a really good, that's kind of an aggressive goal. Yeah, but you could do it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You got everything, have everything lined up and be super dialed in for sure. But you can do it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think it's, I think it's aggressive and it's difficult in the context of somebody who's Been consistently training already and has already built quite a bit of

[Sal Destefano]

a. Oh, yeah, beginner will do this all day long.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Sal Destefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or somebody who's fallen off the wagon for a while and then getting back

[Justin Andrews]

muscle memory might take a drastic change, but, you know, it could happen.

[Adam Schaefer]

The most difficult person this would be for is if you're listening to this and you're already consistent, you've been consistent for the last two years, and you've built already a good amount of muscle, and you're trying to add five more pounds of muscle. That is difficult.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I'm glad you said that, because that's what we're talking to. So for the beginner to build five pounds of muscle in a week, not that hard. Just follow a good program, follow a MAPS program, eat properly. Oftentimes you see people gain five pounds of muscle in the first month or two. If you have muscle memory, even easier. If you used to have all this muscle, you lost it. Then you get back into working out. Muscle memory is crazy, especially when you feed yourself properly and you train properly. It is incredibly wild how quickly you gain muscle back. I remember when you did your YouTube series, Adam, and I knew muscle memory was crazy. I've experienced it. I've seen it firsthand. But to see what happened to your body in the first 30 days, it still blew me. It blew my mind. And so many people thought you were lying.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

They thought you were making up your DEXA scans.

[Adam Schaefer]

But the thing that probably was the most surprising for myself was how little I actually had to do to get that back. So that was what was really interesting to me, was that I. I mean, I was only doing two lifts a day.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

So to think that you could build that much muscle, but, I mean, just highlights.

[Sal Destefano]

Now, just not to go off on a tangent, but just a little context here. First off, you gained how much muscle in the first month?

[Adam Schaefer]

23 pounds.

[Sal Destefano]

23 pounds of muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

23 or 22, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

As verified by a DEXA scan. By two DEXA scans. But here's the context. He was gaining back, I think, 40 or 50. He was still. He was still a good 30 pounds away from his most muscular size.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, more than that.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, okay. So you were deep in muscle memory. You didn't gain back all the muscle you never had. You still had way room to go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I. I mean, I. I think. I think I calculated like I was 50 pounds from peak, you know, bodybuilding.

[Sal Destefano]

So you. You didn't you didn't get halfway to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's why I was so confident in that. Like, I, I called it before I did it, and I felt really confident that I could get halfway there pretty fast. Yeah, I, I figured the back half would be, of course, way more difficult to get back to that.

[Sal Destefano]

And just so people understand, like, muscle memory is well documented. And when you first build muscle, it. It's a slower process. If you lose it and gain it back, it's much faster. And the best way to explain this, I guess the best analogy is like, you, you have to build muscle. Imagine you have a construction site, and so you're going to build a building. So you need machinery, you need plans, you need workers, and then you need the materials, and they build this building all the way up. Now imagine that building is torn down, but you have the remaining machinery, the remaining plans, and the same workers that built it the first time. Would they be able to build it faster the second time around? Yes. You don't have to get anything else. You just got to go. And so that's the best way to explain it. Of course, physiologically it's much more complex than that, but we're going to speak to people who are consistent. And so the first step that you need to take in order to do this is to start with a deload week.

[Adam Schaefer]

I love that, I love that as advice because we're speaking to the person who is been really consistent and maybe plateaued or already gained a bunch of muscle. It's like, how do I get on 5 more often? We just talked about this recently on the podcast. One of the last ones we did where how many times all of us have been in this kind of trouble training routine and consistency. And then we took a vacation for a week or got sick or. And then you come back and you're stronger and it's just always this like, oh, wow, my body really just needed some time off. And I hadn't, I hadn't done that because you, you strive. So you. Most of us strive so much to be consistent and to continually progressively overload. And that's hard as it is rarely do you think, like, oh, what I need to do is actually scale back or take a week off.

[Justin Andrews]

It's still so counterintuitive. It is people that are working that hard and yeah, their entire effort and emphasis has been on trying to be as consistent as possible and like, keep achieving progress to, to then peel back and then allow your body to really fully recover is transformative.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So this is. And the reason for this, There's a reason for this, and I'll get to some data here in a second. But if you're really consistent, what tends to happen almost always with anybody who's really consistent with their training is that they start to veer away from what's ideal and they start to move slowly towards what they could tolerate. And they start tipping into this, like where they're hitting this line and they're slightly crossing it. So they're doing what they could tolerate, which is more than what's ideal. So what's ideal will build the most muscle, most strength, give you the best results. More than that actually slows down to progress. You could tolerate it, but it slows down your progress because there's more recovery involved. But we tend to move in that direction. You know, you know who you are. Like, you've been working out for a while, your workouts have slowly, over time, got a little harder. You're adding more weight, which is volume, maybe you've added more sets, that kind of stuff. So you're already playing that, that, that game already. So taking a, a deload week resets you, gets you ready to gain that five pounds of muscle number two. Here's what the. There's a recent study that I just read, or I just recently read, where they actually compared two groups of well trained people and they had them follow the same routine. But one group had a deload week every, I don't remember what was every five weeks or something like that, and the other group didn't. And so a deload week for people aren't familiar is essentially a week where the, where the intensity and the volume is dramatically reduced. Not a little bit, like a lot reduced. It's like a super easy, almost like you're going to the gym, going through the motions type of week.

[Justin Andrews]

You're like practicing lifting.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. The group that did the deload week every so often gained 29% more strength and significantly more muscle. So you just build more muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I like the other study even better that showed the two groups that went through and every month one group took an entire week off.

[Sal Destefano]

That's way more than what's normally recommended.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. And that group saw the same results, took no weeks off in those three months. That, to me is, that is enough for me to like, for everybody to at least consider doing this. Even if you think, oh no, I don't think I am over trained or I don't think I need a deload week, it's just like, well, have you been training consistently for three to six months and not taking a full week off yet? Like maybe try it and see what happens. Because what the research shows is that you definitely, you won't go backwards. That's for damn sure.

[Sal Destefano]

Nope.

[Adam Schaefer]

And there's a great possibility you'll see as much of results or more results by doing that. And so I think there's a lot of value in everybody starting with this. So I love that you use this as like your first two ways to approach this.

[Sal Destefano]

One way is, is you go into the week and you cut your volume in half and your intensity in half. So it literally feels like you're wasting your time in the gym. That's a, that'd be a general way to do a deload week. There's another way you can do this, which is we have a free guide. In fact, I'll point to it. It's the seven day over training rescue guide. It's free. It'[e-mail] you get this guide and just follow the seven day layout. And it's literally designed to take somebody and get them fully ready to go in seven days. Okay. So follow that and then you're ready to go. So dilute a week is what you start with, then you get back into it. We'll start with diet first because you need the nutrients and you're gonna need the extra calories to make this happen. You're not gonna build five pounds of muscle out of thin air. Get your protein above 1 gram per pound of target body weight. So if you're already doing well with this, if you're a 130 pound female and you're eating 130 grams of protein, I say add 30 grams to that. Add 40 grams, guys. Add 50 to 60 grams to what you're doing. So bump your protein even higher than when you have it. The data suggests that this will in combination with other things contribute to more muscle gain. When you're in a period of time where your body's actually trying to build the extra muscle. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

When you're anabolic, you need the materials there to help.

[Adam Schaefer]

Doesn't it show up to 1.5? Isn't that what the kind of the upper limits are like once anything beyond that doesn't there hasn't been shown any.

[Sal Destefano]

So. So it depends on who you're looking at. If you're looking at like, like well trained people who've already got good strength and muscle, they seem to do in some cases better when they bump it up a little higher. It also depends on the rest of your calories. I'm saying I'm recommending this because I know generally speaking, most people are going to benefit from this. You definitely won't go backwards from doing this. Yeah. And it's more likely than not going to contribute to the more muscle. So aim for more than a gram of protein per pound of body weight. I'd go like 1.2 to 1.5, you know, something like that. Next up, bump your calories aggressively. So, ladies, you're going to gain five pounds of muscle. This is not a 100 to 200 calorie increase. You're looking at 600 calorie increase, fellas. More like 800 calorie or 900 calories above what you're currently eating. If you're going to try and gain five pounds in 30 days of muscle, you're going to have to go on a four week bulk.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Not a controlled, slow reverse diet, but a bulk. Add those calories. Now I will say this, don't let it be garbage because that quickly turns into 1500 calories above. Yeah. And, and then you'll be, you'll be left with, you know, more muscle but a lot more body fat. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Fat will go with that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So it's, it's going to be an aggressive. It's going to be aggressive. It's going to be like a 400, 400, 400 calorie, 500 calorie bump for women, 700 to 900 calorie bump for men. You're doing it for four weeks, so go for it. Get those calories up there. Doesn't matter if it comes from carbs or fats, so long as you're eating the essential fats. So I know that's the next question people like, what should it be, carbs or fats? Make it a mix. Doesn't matter if you're eating enough fat. Don't care if it's more fat. Don't care if it's more muscle. In my experience, people tend to build muscle more when the carbs go up a little bit. That's not true for everybody. So you know who you are, you know how you feel. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's normally not true in the case of somebody who doesn't eat enough pro. Enough fat.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So in the case you're a little deficient.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But once you, if you're, if you're a female, you're north of 60 grams of fat, you're hitting adequate. If you're a man, you're eating over 80, then you're fine. You can get it all carbs. If you're under those, then I would bump fat first.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. Next up, sleep amazingly. Okay, what does that mean? Every day? Every day, weekends, Friday nights. If you really want to gain five pounds of muscle in 30 days. If you're like, for the next 30 days, my goal is to add a half an inch on my arms or half an inch on my glutes, which five pounds will translate to if I want to see visible change, if I really want to gain 5 pounds of lean body mass. Your sleep needs to be great every single night.

[Justin Andrews]

Hit that circadian rhythm.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Sun up, sundown.

[Sal Destefano]

No going out with your friends, no staying up late playing video games. It's the same time every night you're going to bed, same time every morning, you're waking up Friday, Saturday included, Sunday included. Have a sleep routine and make this a priority. The difference that good sleep makes to like, okay, sleep when it comes to muscle is silly.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's so crazy when you finally connect the dots that you don't build muscle in the gym. You build muscle when you eat and sleep.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That is when you build muscle. So when you really understand that, that it's not the ext set in the gym, it's not what exactly what you. It's what you do when you rest and you eat, then the resting part becomes a huge piece of that. And if you unlock that by putting a focus for 30 days of like, okay, I'm gonna create a night routine and I'm gonna be consistent for 30 days. Watch what happens.

[Justin Andrews]

Everything else you're doing is trying to stimulate that growth. You're not going to grow unless you add those components and that emphasis into sleep and eating.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, totally. I remember. Just funny story, I've told this before, but there was a year and I don't remember how old I was. I want to say I was 15. And my parents went to Italy for 45 days. So they were long trip. My dad's got family there, and so it was the first time they'd left us kids for that long. So we stayed with my grandmother. Okay, so this is my Italian grandmother and my Italian grandmother. Like many Italian grandmothers, her favorite thing to do is feed you. It's like her favorite, favorite thing to do. And so I got really good sleep at my grandma's house because she let me sleep in. There wasn't much to do at night. They didn't have all the cable Channels or whatever. And she literally. My grandmother was like, what do you like to eat?

[Justin Andrews]

Steak.

[Sal Destefano]

And I said, I don't know, steak, breakfast, lunch and dinner. My nonna made me steak and pasta and other stuff. But all the meals I would wake up and I'd go out downstairs, big ass steak waiting for me. And I gained so much muscle in that 45 days.

[Justin Andrews]

Grandma's hooking it up and I thought

[Sal Destefano]

there was something magical about red meat. I just didn't realize I wasn't hitting my protein and getting the sleep like, like I was at my grandma's house. So it was, it was pretty funny. All right, next up. Lift differently. This is the time you change the stimulus.

[Adam Schaefer]

Also love this.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. So for many of you, if you're doing a split, go to three days full, full body, we'll do it for you. If you're training in the low rep ranges, raise the reps a bit. You know, if you're always at five reps, go up to, you know, 10 to 12. For always 10 to 12, go down to five. Long rest periods are probably going to be good regardless. But change your plan up a little bit.

[Justin Andrews]

You're always doing hypertrophy. Try a powerlifting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Don't overlook this. I think this is one of my favorite go to moves with clients was to. To switch when they, when they got stuck in a plateau. One of the best plateau breakers was just getting them out of their routine. And I mean I hike I. Instead of the advice that you just gave, I recommend getting a program that is different than what you would get. Because typ1 people tend to gravitate towards the things they already like. Changing that up for them many times is changing it back to something they just did not to right before that. And so it's not, it's not novel enough. Right. The more novel you go here tends to get the best results. And so I love to look at how somebody trains and go and kind of Justin was point is like have you ever trained like power like. No, I've never. Okay, cool. That's what we're doing. It's like you ever train something like performance or unilateral stuff, multi planners? Oh no, never done it. Okay, we're going that direction. So something that is so different than how you would normally train tends to send a great muscle building signal with that in conjunction with the increased calories and sleep and everything else you're giving as advice. I mean that is just a recipe for building muscle.

[Sal Destefano]

The five programs off the top of my head that we have that are really good for most people for building muscle, because all the programs are great. But the five that tend to be the most appropriate for most people listening if they're going to do this would be like, maps, anabolic maps, ppl Map, Strong muscle, Mommy and maps. Power Lift.

[Justin Andrews]

Power Lift.

[Sal Destefano]

I think those would be the five that I'd say for most people. If you're relatively well trained, well rested, well fed, like, pick the one that's

[Adam Schaefer]

different, that's most different than what you would normally do.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally last. Be okay with fat gain. If you're scared of gaining an ounce of body fat, you have no business trying to gain five pounds of muscle. That's it. I mean, so many people are so afraid.

[Adam Schaefer]

Definitely not in 30 days.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you're not that aggressively.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you're gonna gain that aggressively, you're gonna put some body.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So you got to be okay. You got to be okay with it. You got to be okay with it. If you gain 5 pounds of muscle and 2 pounds of body fat, you did great.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a win.

[Sal Destefano]

That's a huge win. Even if it was five and three, you did a phenomenal job. If you're a hard gainer, if you're like super, super lean all the time and you gain five and five, that's a win, too.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So I just want people to understand that you got to be okay gaining some body fat. The people that have the most difficult time with building muscle are the people that are most afraid of getting body fat. Those are the hardest people to get to gain any muscle because they're so afraid of any pound going on the scale. Actually, supplements is. I'm sure people are going to ask what kind of supplements, by the way, supplements don't play a huge role, but we should list, like, mass, like the best supplements for gaining muscle mass.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, they're helpful in this category, especially when you're trying to get a surplus.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I would say so. Legion is a great company sponsored by them. They have so many good products. Creatine protein powder is up there. Their essential amino acids would be good. What else would you guys say?

[Adam Schaefer]

Does Mike. Does Mike have an actual mass gainer? Do you know? If he does, like, look up Legion

[Sal Destefano]

Doug and see if he's got, like, a meal replacement with some calories. That would be great.

[Adam Schaefer]

And even if he doesn't, then all. All I do is you. You add a banana or scoops of peanut butter to a shake.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that's like, I prefer to make my own mass gainers. With the, like a peanut butter whole milk, 2 tablespoons of peanut and like a tablespoon of Nutella or something. And it's like you want a good thousand calorie shake. There you go.

[Sal Destefano]

What'd you find there, Doug?

[Doug]

Yeah, I don't think they have an official mass gainer.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. So I would say do their whey protein, their creatine, and their amino acid supplements. You can throw in a multivitamin there, and that would be your mass gain stack over the next 30 days.

[Adam Schaefer]

Banana and 2 tablespoons of peanut butter.

[Justin Andrews]

Best whey protein on your gut inside

[Adam Schaefer]

that whey prote by that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or the egg. Either one of those would be good.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. I don't do whey. I can't do dairy. But their egg protein, that's what I do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's right up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So if you can't do whey, do their egg. Their egg's amazing. And then, like I said, add the banana and 2 tablespoons of peanut butter, and now you've got yourself a nice.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, I actually prefer. It's some. Some my wife can have. She can have whey or she can have egg. Yeah, we prefer the egg. The flavor wise, it's so good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Frothier.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, The. The vanilla and the chocolate is really. She prefers it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I like both. I like both.

[Adam Schaefer]

I go back the way between the two. I have both of them and I use both of them.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude, I gotta tell you about a funny conversation we had the other night. I didn't think about it until afterwards, and I'm like, what's going on? So you guys know how we did?

[Doug]

I don't remember.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know what you call it, but there's this thing on social media. Our team had us do it. And so I don't know if it's been. It's up yet as of the airing of this episode, but you're with your friends, you take a gulp of water, you hold it in your mouth, and then each person pull out, like a random object they brought from home. And the goal is to make everybody laugh. Yeah. Okay, so we did that.

[Justin Andrews]

He took that home with you?

[Sal Destefano]

Well, no. So I took. I brought three random objects from home. Yeah, I brought a diaper. I got little kids, so I figured you guys will laugh because we always talk about, you know, have kids or whatever. I brought a diaper. I bought a potato.

[Justin Andrews]

Put a snicker bar in there.

[Sal Destefano]

I do. I almost did. Made it look like poop?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah. And then eat it afterwards. Freak you guys out big time. So I brought a diaper. I brought a potato, because a potato is random as heck. Yeah. And then I brought a baseball because you guys make fun of me that don't play any sports. So I thought. You guys laugh, right? So a potato, a diaper, and a baseball. So I come home and. And my wife's like, oh, did you. Did you bring everything back home? I'm like, no. A potato, a diaper, and a baseball. That I'm pretty sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, you want me to take those back home? Say, I want you to bring it. Well, I'm like, okay, whatever, dude. So now thinking about. I'm like, she just wants to tell me what to do. Like, who brings a potato and a diaper back home and a baseball that nobody knew we even had to go look for?

[Justin Andrews]

Maybe the diaper still useful.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was in here. I saw it.

[Sal Destefano]

You're not using the baseball yet. Yeah, I left it on the counter.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Did you get it?

[Sal Destefano]

Did you get it or no? Yeah, I got them.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Because they were here yesterday.

[Sal Destefano]

No, that's why they're not there anymore. But as I'm getting. I'm like, really? She want me to take home a diaper and a potato and a baseball. Nobody knew we had a baseball, by the way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Did you even know you had it,

[Sal Destefano]

or you just looking for stuff? I was like, I'm going to bring a ball. Some kind of a sport, you know, ball to work. Because they're gonna laugh. And the baseball was easiest to carry. I even know we had it, so I'm like, I'll just. Yeah, it could have been a football, too.

[Adam Schaefer]

That was the best one. I thought you did. Yeah, because that one got me. I almost. I almost spit the water out on that one. Okay, that's. That's ironic.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Adam's elephant trunks definitely got me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Bro, that's disgusting.

[Justin Andrews]

I just glad I didn't have to touch him.

[Sal Destefano]

No, I know. He's like, I never wore him. Lies.

[Adam Schaefer]

Lies on your face, Katrina. My, my, my.

[Sal Destefano]

All these images. I can. I can pick up peanuts. Check it out, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

My. My oils failed, too. Nobody read. They would have been funny if you guys would have.

[Sal Destefano]

So what was the oil? What was written on them? They.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I can't even remember, but they were, like, really funny, sexual names for each type of oil, and they were funny, and so if you would have read them, they would. But, you know, we all have water in our mouth, so. I can't say, like, read it. And I just thought. I thought I. What I thought would happen was I put it out there and Justin kind of. Justin did grab. Do this for a second.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But no one, like. And I thought that's what I would go down would be. Like, one guy would grab and actually read it and then. And then start dying laughing. And then everybody else would read it. And that didn't. It didn't play out.

[Sal Destefano]

I like how Doug pulls out a gun.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

What are you doing, Doug?

[Justin Andrews]

He went hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's funny he did that because Katrina suggests that she. You should bring one of your guns. I'm like, what? Why would I bring one of my guns?

[Sal Destefano]

She told you to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, she told me to do that. And because we're trying to think where. I'm like, man, you gotta help me random wise think of three things that are like, super.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, it matches Doug because we always tease him about his anger. You know, that he's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, the shiv would have got me.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

If you brought like a. If you brought a Sharpie.

[Doug]

I was actually gonna get a toothbrush.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you would have shaved brush.

[Sal Destefano]

I would have lost tape to one end or something.

[Adam Schaefer]

Considering we haven't said that in a long time. Like, that used to be like an ongoing joke on the podcast.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But we haven't talked about that forever. And so to pull that out, that

[Sal Destefano]

would have been like, dude, you just reminded me. Speaking of which. So my. My wife's probably gonna volunteer with this. There's this group that. That you can go and meet with prisoners and you become what's called a chaplain and you meet with them and you meet with them on a regular basis and kind of give them hope and help them type of deal. So she's going to volunteer for that, but I went to the training with her and they had a list of things that were prohibited.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Post it notes.

[Justin Andrews]

Post it notes.

[Sal Destefano]

Post it notes.

[Adam Schaefer]

What do they use that for?

[Sal Destefano]

They were hiding drugs in the. In the plastic and. Not the plastic. The. You know, the glue on the back of Post it note. Yeah. They were able to figure out how to put fentanyl in there. Line it in there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, it looks like the, The. The. It looks like the glue. But then they would peel it off, I guess, and use it as.

[Justin Andrews]

I know there's got to be a book so crafty.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's got to be a book. They're brilliant. There has to be a book that has like all the, all the crafty things that, like, prisoners.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. There has to be.

[Adam Schaefer]

There has to be. There's, like, so many. There's so many that, like, I've heard some.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm like, what?

[Adam Schaefer]

They can do that?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

No way.

[Justin Andrews]

So inventive and engine. Yeah. Their ingenuity.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude, that's what I was gonna say.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it just highlights when the mind is like. Put it, like, rest when you're bored

[Sal Destefano]

and you got nothing to do but think about, like, ways to do things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is there a book, Doug? I know there's.

[Doug]

There is actually called Prisoners Inventions.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Doug]

Incarcerated artist named Angelo.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

Yeah. Documents ingenious, often contraband objects and methods created by prisoners to make life more bearable.

[Sal Destefano]

You know that they know how to communicate to each other through the toilets in some of these prisons.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

If you, like, flush it, I guess, or empty the water out, you could speak into the toilet and then the person down there. Yeah, dude. They can send messages. There's currencies. Yeah. There's all kinds of. All kinds of crazy ways that they get to do the. You know, they make, like, sex things in prison. Sex things like toys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude. Yeah. I was. Got me down a rabbit hole, and there's this one guy that interviews people who are, like, inmates, and they're talking about, like, the way the things that they do and they.

[Adam Schaefer]

Creating there.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm like, man, like, again, if you're bored.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Well, I mean, Doug. Doug found a whole book on it. There's a whole book on it. So I'm sure there's hundreds, if not more inventions inside there.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, what happened to today's jello? You.

[Doug]

Yeah, there's all kinds of.

[Justin Andrews]

I took it.

[Sal Destefano]

Who made.

[Adam Schaefer]

Are you looking at stuff or what?

[Doug]

Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff here. I don't know. Pictures. It looks interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Anyway, you know what pruno is?

[Adam Schaefer]

Pruno is that.

[Doug]

It's like a wine, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Which is rotten fruit.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, Rotten fruit and socks. Right. Don't they.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know how they make it.

[Adam Schaefer]

They use, like, socks and.

[Sal Destefano]

But they literally make alcohol with rotten fruit. They ferment it and then they get hammered. Yeah, they call it. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Sal Destefano]

Super wild.

[Justin Andrews]

Whatever you can do.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, Diet. Speaking of diet, have you guys seen this trend on social media called the boring diet trend?

[Adam Schaefer]

The boring diet trend.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I saw. Remember the video they did of. They've calling the. You know what they call dog food or boys. Boys food. Boy. Boy kibble. Boy kibble. Oh, you saw that? Just stuff that we Eat ground beef and rice.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, like boy meals and girl meals?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, they just call it boy kibble. It was on the news. They were talking about, like, you know, boy kibble sweeps the nation. Is this, like, way of eating or what? Like that. And they were like, they were on it. It's like, man, that's such a good, such a good meal.

[Sal Destefano]

Ground beef rice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, just ground beef and rice. You know, they were calling it boy Kim.

[Sal Destefano]

Why are they trying to make everybody unhealthy?

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. It's like, it's.

[Justin Andrews]

What's the alternative?

[Adam Schaefer]

It's such a good. That's. I mean, that's like my go to.

[Sal Destefano]

That is.

[Adam Schaefer]

It tastes good.

[Sal Destefano]

Some salsa or some guac?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean, I. I mean, I saute onions and mushrooms and make it real good. And. And it's. It. But it's a staple weekly meal that I prep because you can do it in bulk. And then it goes so good with eggs. And I like it. I like it for. Doesn't matter morning, afternoon or night. It's like.

[Sal Destefano]

So you know what I do? This is such a. This is such a bodybuilder thing. I take a potato.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I wrap it in a wet paper towel and I microwave the hell out of it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, you can bake a potato like seven minutes.

[Sal Destefano]

And then I take it out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And I, you know, put butter on it. And then I put my ground beef on top of it. And then two sunnyside up eggs and I throw on top of it. Mix it together. It's good. It's really, really good.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's pretty good.

[Sal Destefano]

Anyway, by the way, and you reminded me there's like another trend where it's like boy meals and girl meals. And they'll show a picture. Like a girl meal is like tomato cracker.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, you know, like, like nice looking. Yeah. And boil meat, random cheese.

[Justin Andrews]

Like some, like, vegetable.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude. So anyway, the boring diet trend. So this guy writes and he says, if you follow this diet, you're guaranteed to lose weight. He goes, you're only allowed to eat sweet potato, chicken breast and broccoli. Eat as much as you want. And everybody's like, this is brilliant. I'm like, oh, my God, of course, dude. Of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Do they not know who bodybuilders are?

[Sal Destefano]

No. Well, what this points to is that when you keep. When you make things unpalatable, you eat less.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And boredom. Eating the same thing over and over again is actually a great way to hack your appetite. If you have, like, cravings all the time, novelty triggers the heck out of cravings.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

So if you're one of those people that's like, man, I get really stuck, and I just keep overeating. Something you could do with yourself is eat the same kind of foods all the time, and it'll actually tamp it down.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what whole foods are good for.

[Adam Schaefer]

The hardest part is the. The window at which you start to get hungry. That's why. That's why I always, like. You know, I remember we used to talk. One of the first things that we came out when we first started this, you know, 11 years ago, was the. The frequency meals myth. And I've always been a fan of the frequency meals.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, small meals.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, Small meals throughout the day. Because not only my personal experience, but with clients also. What I found is when a client gets busy at work or four or five hours stretch between meals and they start to get hungry, then come the craving.

[Sal Destefano]

Choices aren't great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, it's just. And. And I. I know what it's like to feel like this when you let that happen. You're like, God, this sounds good. Like, all these cravings start kicking in, and then it's like, oh, but I have sweet potato and ground beef in the refrigerator.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I. And the discipline it takes to go do it. Now, what I've learned is that when I have those moments and I just go microwave, and I start eating, I'm fine.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But the decision to go do that when you. When you let those cravings kick in is really difficult for a lot of people to handle. And so I had a lot of success by just having my clients break up three big, big normal meals to six small meals and just train them that a few hours. Yeah. Every couple hours. Even when you're not hungry. Get that next one in and get that next one in. It's such a small meal. It's easy for them to eat and digest, and it's. And they never allow themselves to get that.

[Sal Destefano]

You're right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it just is.

[Sal Destefano]

Automatically encourages meal prep. Automatically.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

Which is a huge benefit when you're trying to eat in a healthy way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

No, it makes. It makes a lot of sense. I know when you go grocery shopping and you're hungry.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. Look at the stuff you buy, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm a fitness guy. If I'm hungry at the grocery store, I'm gonna buy candy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Like cheap, crappy candy, too. I'm gonna have nerds or something like that. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

At the grocery store, I could eat boring, though.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel.

[Justin Andrews]

I feel like, there could be like three things like steak, cheese, and chicken nuggets.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, whoa.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, I'm done, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

You have the palate. I'm fine. Hey. The chicken nuggets from rice. The gluten free chicken nuggets from butcherbox. Yeah, it's a problem.

[Justin Andrews]

It is, actually.

[Adam Schaefer]

I didn't realize that the chicken strips and the chicken nuggets were different like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

One of them's gluten free and one of them's not.

[Sal Destefano]

The gluten free ones. And the nuggets, the strips are not.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But in my. I get four bags of it. So my butcher box comes. I put four bags in those.

[Adam Schaefer]

Five.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. My wife and I were kind of like having a fight over this. And mainly because my youngest and I, like, we eat them almost immediately. So it's like, it doesn't even last like a week in our house having five bags. And so each time she's like, we realize, like, you have to trade some other meat out, like, so, you know, for me to keep, like, so she was always trying to argue that, like, yeah, we just need like three bags. I'm like, no, we need five bags.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, well, especially if you and the boys are eating. It's competitive because we, we get. I think that's how many we get. But because it's a staple meal for Max and occasionally I'll. I dip into it. So I'm maybe, maybe once a week or every other week I eat them because I know that's like his meal, Right. But if I start dipping into him like that, where I'm.

[Sal Destefano]

The protein in them is pretty good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, yeah, yeah. I'll crush 20 of those.

[Sal Destefano]

You'll make 20 at a time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Which puts a dent in the back.

[Justin Andrews]

I could do whole bag.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

By yourself?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's a pile, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not even.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

How many servings?

[Adam Schaefer]

I would say there's. I think there's about 30 or 30 or so because I've done. I've done 20. 20. And me and Max could finish a bag in one, almost one sitting. So I know that's only got to be 25, 30 at most.

[Sal Destefano]

However many it takes to get 40 grams of protein, whatever that is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's only like 12. Yeah, it's like, damn, you're eating 20 or 30.

[Doug]

Six of them are. Is 13 grams, I believe.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so. So no, I mean, I mean, so what?

[Adam Schaefer]

14?

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you just, you said six of them is how much?

[Doug]

13 grams. So you're trying to go for 40 grams of party.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Protein.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah. So what am I doing? 18. 18.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's not right. 6. 6 is not 13 grams.

[Sal Destefano]

Is that what it says?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's. No, it's not.

[Doug]

Let me look it up.

[Adam Schaefer]

I guarantee it's not, because I track this whole time. It's more like 12, like I said, is about where you're at. It's about 40.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You know, you think arguing macros.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. I was like.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, I've looked at it too. All right.

[Sal Destefano]

Macros. Yeah.

[Doug]

Let me find. Let me find that. Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, think about that logically for a second. It's more.

[Sal Destefano]

It's more than.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. No, no. There's like. I think. I think if. When I do 20, I just want

[Sal Destefano]

to see how many. I just want to see how many.

[Adam Schaefer]

50 or 60.

[Sal Destefano]

I just want to see how many calories.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you're like 12. You're like 12. Okay.

[Doug]

So. I'm sorry. You're right.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know.

[Doug]

My. My. You're 10 grams for three pieces.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you.

[Doug]

I was off.

[Adam Schaefer]

You were way off.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. So

[Doug]

I stand corrected.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

You were right on the dot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I know, bro. No. You think I got defensive.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, I forgot I was really gonna see her argue with me over this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, I've actually broke it down many

[Sal Destefano]

times in a bag.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh.

[Doug]

So there's eight servings. So that'd be like 24 nuggets per bag.

[Sal Destefano]

So hold on. How many calories?

[Adam Schaefer]

There's 24 nuggets in a bag.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that's 20 eats four.

[Sal Destefano]

Exactly.

[Doug]

170 calories per serving.

[Sal Destefano]

170 per. How many nuggets? Nuggets.

[Doug]

Three.

[Sal Destefano]

And there's eight servings. Yeah. Damn, Justin, you're having 1300 calories in nuggets, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but a solid, like a big lunch.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, I do that sometimes in the weekend. I'm not even gonna lie to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, but at least you're getting, like, 60. 70 grams of protein, so it's. It's not like. Yeah.

[Doug]

Getting 80 grams.

[Justin Andrews]

I've been burning a lot of calories lately, though. I just put his work.

[Sal Destefano]

I just pictured Justin with a. Like a pile of nuggets, and he's watching cartoons.

[Justin Andrews]

It does feel like that, though.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, I'm with you, bro. I totally. I totally get that, but that's why I can't. If I eat them. I mean, I ain't doing less than no 12 to 16. I'm definitely, like, any less than. That's a waste of time.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, yeah. So I'm gonna put a big dent in them if I eat them a lot. And that's like.

[Sal Destefano]

Max is like, I feel super weak right now that I only eat 12.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm surprised that. Yeah, you only do that because you're Mr.

[Sal Destefano]

Meal over here, bro. My meals are healthy, dude. You guys make fun of me all the time, but I'm eating good.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's healthy. That's all.

[Sal Destefano]

No, what I mean is I'm eating like, you know, I'm not. I'm not going crazy, you know, that

[Adam Schaefer]

was one of the biggest things that helped me use. Excuse me. To change this conversation to be helpful for somebody. Like when I switched over my bad habits at night of, like, ice cream and just shit calories, you know, sweets, and just, like, going and crushing 12, 16, at least. I'm 54.

[Justin Andrews]

I feel too. It does deter me from, like.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Huge cookies.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it feels like a total treat, Right? I'm getting chicken nuggets. Right? Like, stuff like that Magic spoon cereal. I used to do that. Like, those types of things like that where it feels like I'm getting somewhat

[Sal Destefano]

of a treat, but I'm protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I'm crushing 30, 40, 50 grams of protein.

[Sal Destefano]

Are you. Are you guys. Are you guys ketchup? You guys ketchup them?

[Adam Schaefer]

No. God, no.

[Sal Destefano]

Just straight up barbecue sauce.

[Adam Schaefer]

Barbecue sauce.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what I used? Oh, ketchup's best. No. What? Ranch mayonnaise.

[Adam Schaefer]

Mayonnaise. Mayonnaise on those?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What are you from England? Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, you like French fries and mayonnaise? Are you one of those? You do.

[Sal Destefano]

That's European. That's what they did.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. I've tried it.

[Sal Destefano]

It's.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's too much.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not a mayonnaise guy at all.

[Sal Destefano]

You're white. Stop it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can do cracker.

[Sal Destefano]

I can do tartar.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can do the tartar sauce on. On fish chips.

[Sal Destefano]

You do hot sauce? Shut up. Yeah. Yeah. All right, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Racist.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm sorry, guys. All right. Do you guys know where the word goodbye came from? I just learned this the other day.

[Doug]

Oh, I heard that, too.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you?

[Sal Destefano]

Did you, Doug?

[Adam Schaefer]

Goodbye.

[Doug]

God be with you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So in the 1600s, people would say a parting. Like a parting thing to say is, God be with ye. God be with you. And it got. And it started to get shortened into goodbye. So goodbye comes from God be with ye. I just learned that the other day in the 1600s.

[Adam Schaefer]

I had no idea.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Isn't that Cool. Did you see the same clip I did?

[Doug]

I probably did. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Our algorithms are a little similar. Yeah. Adam's algorithm's all cars.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you looked at.

[Sal Destefano]

But you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everyone should do this right now. I want to see what everybody's exploring.

[Justin Andrews]

Justin's like, mine's all butts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just to get your back, Justin. Mine used to be like that.

[Sal Destefano]

I had to.

[Adam Schaefer]

I had to change it because I have too much. There's too much butts on my Explorer page. Like this. Yeah, I know. If we look.

[Justin Andrews]

That's all dachshunds now, you know.

[Sal Destefano]

Look at.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bro. Hot rods.

[Sal Destefano]

Look at. Let me see. Yeah, look at that. It's all cars, dude. Wow. That's crazy. What does mine look like? Yeah, all cars are. You know, I'm barely. I'm barely ever on Instagram, honestly. In fact, I had a friend of mine. Let's see what mine looks like. Oh. So here's mine. Mine's. Yeah, mine's like, just a bunch of randomish kind of stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Jesus.

[Sal Destefano]

Stuff. Yeah. So I. I had. I had somebody message. I saw a friend, and they were like, oh, dude, I DM'd you. I sent you this link. I'm like, I don't check any of that stuff. My team picture. I got kicked out of my social media by my partners. I mean, anyway, that's hilarious. All right, I got some dehydration stats for you guys that is kind of interesting. What do you mean by that? So I saw this, and I thought it was really interesting. I'm going to pull it up in

[Justin Andrews]

terms of, like, effects of dehydration, so.

[Sal Destefano]

In young women. So the study. The study. The title of it. This was in Journal of Nutrition. Mild dehydration affects mood in healthy young women. So trip off this. In young women. Just 1.36% dehydration. Just a little bit. Just a little. Dehydration makes tasks feel 58% harder. Concentration, 45% harder. Fatigue, 17% worse, and headaches are twice as likely. Just 1.36.

[Adam Schaefer]

How do they get it down to a.

[Sal Destefano]

Why you always ask questions. I don't have the answer.

[Adam Schaefer]

You mean good questions. How do I ask good questions to challenge these studies?

[Justin Andrews]

How do they feel?

[Adam Schaefer]

Because. Okay, how. Yeah, how are. Like, what. What. What are they using to measure, like, oh, she's 2. She's 2% dehydrated right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Do they give them, like, a specific cup to use for this?

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know what they did, you guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, do you have a guess? Do you have A science educated guess for me, because I'm like, I'm trying to fig out how you get okay with any study. There's 30, 40, 50 in a group. So you got 40, 50 ladies in this group.

[Sal Destefano]

I think what they're doing is they're looking at probably their urine, and they're probably looking at the concentration of, okay, electrolytes in the urine. And there's something that's deemed hydrated and it's something that's deemed. Like, that's what I was looking for.

[Adam Schaefer]

Some sort, like, I can't even wrap my brain around. Like, how do you get to like, oh, she's 5% hydrated.

[Justin Andrews]

Concentration of.

[Sal Destefano]

It depends how salt multi taste.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm sorry, you gotta have somebody in there. So.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I. Okay, so I get what they probably did. That is they probably samples, gave them all a certain amount of water and then. And then asked like, how's your. Do you have any headache? How's your energy feel? How would this task surveyed. And then they tested and saw, like, oh, wow, I know.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, I know this. So that I. I used to. I had this belief as a trainer that your thirst was a good indicator of.

[Adam Schaefer]

No. Is it when, by the time you're thirsty, you're already dehydration. Dehydration has already kicked in.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not for sports, like, primarily, not necessarily.

[Sal Destefano]

But what I learned was, is there's like, you. You'll drink as much water as you need. Okay, so 1% dehydration. You're okay. You're not gonna die. You're fine, except you're gonna not feel as good. You just might not know what's going on. But your thirst will get you enough water. It's not like people are walking around dying of not having enough water. But there's what's minimally required and then there's what's optimal. And so I remember I had this woman I worked with in my studio, when I saw my studio, and I would hear her, and she was not a bodybuilder. So this wasn't like bodybuilding advice, because that's why I discredit it. My old bodybuilders, they say that they must not know what they're talking about. She was not a bodybuilder. She was correctional exercise specialist. She was a wellness expert. And she was telling her clients, her female clients, like, drink a half a gallon of water a day, sometimes more, to her male clients. And she would say, you'll have less pain, you'll have more energy and less Cravings. And so I started to. And then they'd come back and be like, I can't believe it. My back pain is lower. And you're right, I have more energy. I don't understand. So I started recommending it, and my everyday clients, who could care less about gaining tons of muscle and whatever, they all noticed the same thing by drinking just more water. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So that became a big focus for me, too, and training clients. Mainly, it was energy, it was headaches, and it was pain.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

So, like, any of those that, like, came up when I'm fielding questions about, you know, their experience or their background or anything, it was like, if any of that showed up, it was like, hey, the focus is here. Let's, like, focus on your hydration.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I shared that on the podcast a long time ago. That was. It was Justin who. I remember hearing talk to his clients about that, and I was like, really? For, like, that wasn't on my. My list of when I asked somebody how their energy levels and. And I'd heard him repeatedly go, you know, how much water are you drinking? And then recommend that. And then noticing how many people that. That was solving it was like, oh, wow. Interesting. How many people are just that low on water and then what a difference it makes on their Internet.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. How did you. Where did you learn? Did you learn that from someone, Justin, or is it all just from yourself?

[Justin Andrews]

It's, like, experience, but, like, it was a lot of, like, in college and. And also in high school, too. Like, so there was a lot of sports, athletic trainers that would kind of, like, reiterate this especially, too. And I was in the Midwest, and there was humidity was a big factor to that. Like, it was always stressed, like, you know, you're behind or, like, you know, all these symptoms. And they kept reiterating the symptoms. And I felt like the extreme version of that when I went to St. Louis and I played in this game where it was, like, 90 degrees and it was like, you know, almost 100 humidity. It was, like, crazy. So I. Yeah, I lost, like, ten pounds almost, like, on my way to the game. So it just. It started clicking to me that that was, like, something to address. Even when I would. Before practice was like. And they would weigh us and everything, and it was real, like, systematic.

[Sal Destefano]

And so you just knew the importance of it. And then you communicate that to your clients. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's great. It makes a big difference, just a little bit. And I mean, again, that study kind of confirms it. That A new study. Yeah, that's an interesting study. It just came out and it's for, and they had young women. So I would imagine that the older you get, the more sensitive you are to slight, you know, slight dehydration. I would imagine.

[Adam Schaefer]

What is, what is the. There's a, like there's been a movement in our space with the water fasting and the idea that we do we drink too much water and have you seen, have you seen content like that? Yeah. Where does that come from? What's the, what is the basis?

[Justin Andrews]

I've only heard Andy Galpin talk about that like as just like another way to stress, like and get that kind of hermetic effect.

[Sal Destefano]

But yeah, maybe. But you know what, you add stress on stress on stress. Like there's things to communicate, like exercise and then there's things that, like it's not that important. Like I'm not going to communicate water fasting to anybody. I don't know. Can you remember a person you worked with?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, it kind of reminds me of why we don't talk a lot about protein fasting. And there's benefits to that. Yeah, right. So there's benefits to going.

[Sal Destefano]

Can you think of a client that would have benefited that except for maybe the bodybuilders you train?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, exactly. That's my, that's my point. My point is that so many people under. Consume that that even though there's research to support a occasional. Yeah, occasional protein fast, that has lots of benefits. But it's like all my clients struggle getting that. So why would I, why would I do that? You know what I'm saying? So it's same thing. I feel the same thing with water. It's like, yeah, I don't have a lot of clients that were like over water that I'm like, hey, we should go a whole day with no water and do a water fast. It's like, no, I was constantly.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I don't think I'd ever like see a reason to promote that.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I mean to me that's, that this is the difference of somebody who's like a, A deep, you know, study research person and somebody who's coached a lot of people. It's just like, it's. I, I'm familiar with the research that has, that points to both those having benefits. But it's like in the real world,

[Sal Destefano]

who do I apply that to?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it just, it doesn't make sense for most of the people.

[Sal Destefano]

You're going to get detrimental effects.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And so in fasting in general, its Roots are in religion. It's, it's all. Its roots are all in religion. The benefits of all fasting was spiritual. And what we do with anything spiritual is we take it and we turn it into something that's aesthetic or optimized this or that. But the benefit, it was all spirit. People didn't fast back in the day because they wanted to increase cell autophagy or improve my mitochondrial function. No. They were like, I'm going to fast, weaken the flesh so I can pray more.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what would be a fun episode for us to do that we need your help to do, but just thinking about this right now of like, worthless studies. So, like a whole episode on, like, you know what we think are the top five worthless studies?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So studies that have been in particular, like ones that you've heard shared in our space as using this as a reason to do this.

[Sal Destefano]

Like chocolate burns, body fat.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff like that. Right. Like just. Or the antioxidants in wine. Right. Like all these different ones that have been, that have been promoted before. That's like. Okay, yeah, that's what the science says.

[Justin Andrews]

Machines to improve the, you know, the output of muscle contraction.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, like on top of everything.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like, no, I know.

[Sal Destefano]

So I remember I had a client that was telling me about all the incredible benefits. Do you guys remember when. What was it called? Remember the acai berry? There was like that company, monavivi. Monavie. My stepdad, way back. Okay. This was like, it was a multi level marketing thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And I remember I had this, this gym. I was managing a gym, and one of the people that come in was like, trying to sell me on it. It's like this, you got, you, you run this gym, you got trainers, you can make so much money. And he's trying to sell me how, like, revolutionary this berry is. And I remember, like, I was listening to him and I was thinking about it. I'm like, why hasn't everybody heard of this berry before? And then I did a little research. I'm like, oh, it's like a super common berry in Brazil.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like a blueberry, but in Brazil.

[Sal Destefano]

And then I looked up the onioxidants and blueberries and I showed them.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's almost identical.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm gonna have one. Blueberries do.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, there's nothing special.

[Doug]

I wanted to mention something though, about fasting. So water fasting is when you're fasting but only drinking water. If you're not drinking water, it's Called dry.

[Sal Destefano]

Dry fasting.

[Justin Andrews]

Just so that.

[Sal Destefano]

Dry fasting. Yeah, that feels. This sounds absolutely terrible.

[Justin Andrews]

Not excited for that.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a thing, though. It's a thing. That's a thing.

[Doug]

But it doesn't sound very good.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, here.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a lot of very often, to be fair mornings about it.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you guys want to do like, you want to go in a controversial direction? Doug, what do you think? Should we go to controversial?

[Doug]

It really depends on what it is.

[Sal Destefano]

I have a study done.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's hear it.

[Sal Destefano]

I know Adam's all about it. Political. It is political, but it's not really political. But it is political.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everything is political.

[Justin Andrews]

You can fast forward, right?

[Sal Destefano]

So this. This was. All right, let me pull it up here. This is. The data is from the US General Social Survey. Percentage of younger people diagnosed with a mental health problem. Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at.

[Sal Destefano]

So who do you think put you guys on the spot? Who do you think these are? Young people. Has the highest percentage of reported mental health issues between the political parties. Like which, Sorry, liberal women. Yeah, no,

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, is it right?

[Sal Destefano]

It's right. Of course it's right. So here's what it is. Someone who identifies as a strong Democrat, 56% also have a reported mentality. Not like a moderate, like strong Democrat. Yeah. Next is a weak Democrat. So someone's like loosely. 41%. Next is independent, 35%. Next is a weak Republican at 30%. And thus the lowest rate of mental health reported mental health issues is a strong Republican at 15%. Geez. These are. These are younger people. Okay. That's a big difference.

[Doug]

How do they determine that?

[Adam Schaefer]

That's my question.

[Sal Destefano]

It's a survey. How do you identify politically?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And then. Or have you been diagnosed with anxiety, depression, Are you on medication? That kind of deal. So the difference between a strong Democrat and a strong Republican and younger people, 50. What is that, 56% to 15%. 40% difference. And mental health.

[Adam Schaefer]

So the more interesting part of that conversation is why do you think that?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, why. Why would that be the case?

[Adam Schaefer]

So my. My theory would be somebody who is that, you know, is strongly left leaning or in that direction. Right. A lot of it is less of personal responsibility, more about relying on government more. And like. And that forces you to worry about all these outside where somebody who's like, strongly right is very much so. Accountability. I have personal control of my health. I have control of my finances. I'm like a very capital factors.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I think that that, that says the most about.

[Sal Destefano]

Because this is a big difference. Everybody So I know some people are like getting mad or whatever. Like this is real, it's real data. It's a big difference, not a small difference. So there's two ways to look at it. One is do people with more mental health issues tend to lean towards a philosophy that says we'll take care of you? And there's lots of scary.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean it's probably both. It's probably true.

[Sal Destefano]

And then there's another side to it. So this guy wrote about it and I can't disagree with some of some of the stuff he says. He says if your ideology convinces you to avoid marriage and children for travel and career or because the climate is going to turn into hot lava and kill you, that probably is going to promote some little bit anxiety and depression. I agree with that. Yeah. Another one.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's always there. Well the first thing you said that and then what I said I think are all true.

[Sal Destefano]

Here's another one that strong Republicans are more likely to go to pastors and their church community for support, whereas people who are identified strong Democrat are more likely to go to therapists. And there's some interesting data around that on people have good relationships, just in general do better.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wasn't the, I mean this will piss a bunch of people off. Who cares? Wasn't the original what the what wasn't that's what therapy was designed to replace the church. Is that what that originally was?

[Sal Destefano]

As people move, got out of community they needed there was like a gap. Yeah. And so they started paying people for, for that kind of stuff. So that's another, that's another big one. And then the fear kind of around, you know, things uncontrollable. Yeah. It's kind of negative spin.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Kind of speak.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. I mean it's like you're worried about everybody else and so versus.

[Sal Destefano]

But I think the avoiding marriage and children and focusing on just travel and career and I think the, you know, the less of people in this kind of strong faith based community or strong community in general. I think those are probably two of the biggest factors because when you look on the other side of that with the data, I'm not saying this because that's my opinion. I'm just when you look at the data, when people are married and have children and realize that that's an really value that their odds of depression, anxiety and also go way down.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean I'd be way more interested into seeing all the things that you just brought up versus just the left versus right leaning thing. Because within that, in both of those you're going to find those groups of people.

[Sal Destefano]

Sure. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's going to be people that are, that are Democrat that want to have kids and want to have family and don't and would.

[Justin Andrews]

And I think their doctrines changed a lot over the years, too, in terms of what they're promoting and the tactics they're using to gain votes. And I just feel like it's, it's. The extremes have, have definitely happened on both sides, but, yeah, especially the negativity in the campaigning and the mudslinging creates more anxiety.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why I think a study like that's not very helpful to me, because it just creates more divide and division on the left and, and both are horrible.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's, I think it's helpful if you look deeper. Well, I think if you just look at it and go. And like to point the finger, then it's not.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, what would be more helpful as a study, like you just said, is like, do people that want to have kids have this and that? Are they like, that would be more helpful than do conservatives or Democrats? That's what I'm saying.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's like family values.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're looking deeper, but the average person is going to go, look, see, less people have more mental issues. Yeah. So that's a, that's a, it's not a, that's not a useful study. It'd be more useful because there was

[Sal Destefano]

a study that came out not that long ago, and it was actually conducted by this person was secular. I can't remember the name of the guy. He did a study on adolescents and teenagers and depression anxiety. If I remember his name, you guys know what I'm talking about. Because he was all over the place not that long ago. And he was like, why are adolescents and teenagers experiencing anxiety and depression at rates we've never seen before? Like, never before, relatively recently, was that age group more depressed and more anxious than people in midlife? That just doesn't. Throughout all the times we've been recording this, midlife is when you experience the highest rates of those things. When you're adolescent or teenagers, typically, you're like, having the time of your life. Right. And yet they're the most anxious, most depressed.

[Justin Andrews]

How much did we care about politics when we. We were teenagers? Not at all. It was the worst. Like, no.

[Sal Destefano]

So what he did is he looked at the data and he's like, is it social media? Is it like, what is it? Is it the news? Is it this and that? And he said, and he found the most protective thing you guys want to know what the most protective thing was? It wasn't how little you were on social media. It wasn't any of that stuff. It was the kids that were most active in a church community almost had no effect. In fact, they had almost no rise in anxiety and depression. So the ones that were the most active, like weekly and twice a week and three days a week, going and becoming in their church community, grounded in something else and being with other people, they were like, no problem.

[Justin Andrews]

Purpose elsewhere.

[Sal Destefano]

And this guy's secular. I can't remember his name.

[Doug]

Guy. Or is it Gene Twenge?

[Sal Destefano]

No, no.

[Doug]

Hi, Jen.

[Sal Destefano]

No, I can't remember. I can't remember his name. You'll know.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a book I read. I talk about.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don't you do this, Doug? Say, say, say Church Protective with Depression, Anxiety among teenagers.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did she talk about that book? I don't remember her talking about that. That book is really. You really enjoy that. But the whole social media, that entire book is nothing but studies.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So speaking of social media, I don't think it's social media that's damaging. I think the reason why it's damaging is what it's replacing. So you don't have friends, you're not going out, meeting with people, you're not connecting with.

[Justin Andrews]

Artificial connection.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. So that's what the issue is. It's less about social media. I'm not saying that doesn't have negative.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I just say I don't. I don't think it's more about.

[Sal Destefano]

Because again, what they found in the study was kids that were at the church, they still use less social media, but even the ones that did it was like it didn't have that effect on them because they were with real

[Justin Andrews]

people and they just need to care about school and sports and. And, you know, like, they don't need to take on all the world's problems.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, let kids be kids, man.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, is it. Is it happening? Is it, Is it. Are we going back the other way? I mean, are the. Is the younger generation less and less?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Well, you mean lower and lower rates of depression.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

We don't have good recent data that shows that that might be reversing. There's suggestions that it's starting to flatten out, but this is more like observations. Like it seems like maybe kids are moving away and maybe they're starting to do this kind of stuff, but we don't have good data. Yeah. On this.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it feels like it's you know, it's funny how this whole like the AI stuff and all the, all the con. I mean, already, I mean, look how quickly our feeds change to a bunch of AI made content. It's going to naturally kind of force everybody out. I mean, I think everybody's going to be like, oh, this. I mean, I already see, I already see it when somebody shares something now.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, like, oh, that's. It's fake.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's fake. Oh, that's AI. That's not real. Like, it's already getting to that place

[Justin Andrews]

and like feels fake.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it still, it still gets me right occasionally where I share something and I'm like, oh my God, I didn't even know. But sooner or later that's going to happen to me enough times where it's just like, that's going to become my default is I don't care, so I'm not interested. And I'm like, you'd have to prove to me that it's real. If I like.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you seen Lose interest? Yeah, I've noticed some people that I like loosely follow that are starting to replace their posts with just AI images and AI driven posts. And you're like. And adults just sprinkle them in. I'm like, it's obvious, you know, and it's like, it's weird to watch because it's like you're becoming less of a real person, like in real time, you know, like, it's. I could see people being like, just

[Doug]

abandon that Dr. Tyler Vander Wheel. Is that correct?

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Somebody well known.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's all made it up.

[Sal Destefano]

And he was being interviewed left and right and you guys would totally recognize who it was. And I'm really frustrated.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Is he a doctor or is he.

[Sal Destefano]

He wrote a book on it or he's reporting on it, but he's not the one that conducted the study. And I can't remember who it was that was. I'm gonna find the name Doug because I can search.

[Adam Schaefer]

You should read Hygiene. I think you like it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I know Jonathan Hayes. Oh, he's the one that talked about it all the time. Yeah. He was going all over the place talking about it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Protective.

[Sal Destefano]

It was.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

For these kids.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, you know, his story is really cool, you know that, you know, speaking since you went politics like that. Like him. And then the other co authored Coddling of the American Mind were like liberal teachers. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know that.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Look that up. Like, look up the two. The two authors of Coddling the American Mind. It's it's, it's Jonathan Haight and then somebody else. And one of them was like a really strong left. Left leaning. And I think the other one was like a. You pulling up, Doug?

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm pulling it up.

[Sal Destefano]

See who it is.

[Doug]

Yeah, but he was Jonathan Haight. Greg Lukenoff.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I forget where they were professors. I read that one a long time ago.

[Sal Destefano]

But if you, you can watch interviews with Jonathan Hay, he breaks it down. He's like, listen, I don't have a dog in this race. I'm just reporting the data. Yeah, it's like it was very protective for kids, so just, you know, something to pay attention. And we've lost. Look, kids used to have community. Definitely used to be in church, but it also was just. You went outside. Yeah, you went outside and you were during all your friends. You were with your friends all. There was nothing to do at home, so you had no choice. But now it's like it's replaced with artificial relationship. So of course people are going to be depressed.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean, you recently talked about. And I don't disagree that we see the. Already the change in what's happening in the gym culture. Right. With the community driven that way. I mean, it will start with the adults and the parents and then maybe that'll eventually trickle down to the kids and maybe we will see this like pendulum swing back where it becomes cool again to go outside and play and do stuff besides sit on your phone all day long.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I just. There's actually a st. There's actually. So there was a post. The gym era is ending and what's replacing it will define.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, don't you. Don't you think it really.

[Sal Destefano]

It really.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like we talk a lot about, you know, Gen Z and, and Millennial and like it. It's really our fault. Like it Never once have I gone outside to go jump in the pool or play outside and my son not want to go.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, it's.

[Adam Schaefer]

But if, if I let him, he would want to. He would. If. Yeah, he'd watch TV or sit on an iPad if I let him. But if I go, I'm. Guys, go get in the pool. It's like he's bolting with me.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, kids that eat unhealthy, it's because their parents eat unhealthy. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so, so really who's to Fault is the US adults who've had an iPhone for the last 15 plus years and we're okay sitting on the couch, scroll doom scrolling or watching television and it's like, part of why these kids don't go outside anymore is because at some point, the adults stopped.

[Justin Andrews]

You have to foster the environment.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. If you don't foster, if you don't teach it and they don't see it, then they don't know, you know, and so. And. And then you. You create an entire culture around everyone sitting on their phones and not interacting, and then that's what. Because I guarantee, if. If my son saw outside, the whole neighborhood was always playing every time we came home from school, and the kids, like, he'd want to stay out there, I wouldn't have to, like, go do it. But because everybody has done this, it

[Sal Destefano]

doesn't send them outside. Nobody's out there.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

What do I do?

[Justin Andrews]

Go outside, Deb, I've been getting hope lately. I mean, there's been. Even with my kids, like, their friends, they want to go. And it's kind of, like, unnerving. I know for Courtney especially, it's a bit unnerving, but, like, they want to go sleep out in the wilderness by themselves, and they want to do that by. So they have this kind of rope that they tie, and there's, like, YouTube videos and stuff that's kind of popular now where they. They create these kind of, you know, platforms that they. They can lay on top of, and, like, they string it all together. I forget what it's called, but it's, like, it's really cool. And it takes, like. Like, hours for them to create it. And then, you know, and they have their. Their own kind of little hangout fort, and they pop up and. And they were, like, trying to do it, like, near this beach, but it's, like all these trees, and Courtney's like, well, that's somebody's property, and they're gonna call the cops and, like, let them, like, deal with that, you know, like, maybe that's a consequence, but, like, what are they gonna do? They're just gonna unravel it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then cops just move on.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Always think about consequences is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like. Like, let's get back to, like, risking some things in. In learning, you know, like, in. In working together towards something. And it's like things like that, like, little projects or, like, fishing or, you know, camp camping, I feel like, is something that my kids have really been pulling me back to get into. So we're. We're starting to kind of move in that direction.

[Sal Destefano]

That's kind.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, that's probably. That's probably one of the hardest challenges I have. Even with Katrina, with With Max is like, I'm always encouraging, like, him to do stuff that. Where he might get hurt or he might fall in or he might. I'm like, I'm here. Like, he's not going to drown from me being like. Like, by the time he falls in, I'll be there in three. He's not drowning in three seconds. Like, it's not happening. It's like. And you know what? Maybe I'll scare him and I'll teach him not to lean over the pool and do that again. Like, that's. It's okay. Like, it's okay for him to take some of these risks and potentially fall or get.

[Sal Destefano]

They talk about that. That's. That's a natural tension between moms and dads that. That moms, you know, bring him in and dads kind of push him out and they're supposed to have that tension because too much of one or the other.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure. Like, I think they're like. I think if I was somebody who was, like, wanting him to do, like, really crazy, dangerous stuff, I could see. Yeah. Help control. But it's like, man, we got to let him do some of these things where. Yeah, it's. It's okay. I know he's by the fire. If. Trust me, he'll. If he get. If he gets burned by. It's going to hurt.

[Sal Destefano]

He'll learn his lesson.

[Adam Schaefer]

He won't do it again. He's not going to die. He's not going to catch on fire.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what I'm saying? His hand.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's going to put his hand near it and it's.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

And he's going to cry. And really. That's hot. You got to be careful around. Around the stove. You got to be careful on those things like that. It's like. But always. Oh, you know, moving him and doing that, doing it for him. It's like, no, I mean, that's how they. That's how kids learn. And so we have turned into, I feel like a culture that. That does a lot of that with our. With our kids. And I think that's part of the problem, too.

[Justin Andrews]

Safety is way too high on the. On the. The pedestal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm with you.

[Sal Destefano]

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[Doug]

First question is from Burke himself. How often do you each deadlift?

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so how often do we currently deadlift? My deadlift routine is pretty, I'd say relatively inconsistent. I probably deadlift once a month maybe. But the reason for that is for me, the deadlift is a lift that I'm really strong at and getting stronger at it. I don't get great returns. The risk is really high now. So at any given moment I could probably pull 500 to 515 off the ground. When I start training deadlifts regularly, my deadlift strength goes up pretty quickly and I'll, you know, in a relatively short period of time get up to 560, 570, 580, and then my risk of injury is really high. So I always do some kind of hip hinging movement, but I don't deadlift regularly now. For most of my clients, deadlifts were a relatively regular part of the routine, once a week or something like that. But for me it's, it's not a regular part of my routine anymore.

[Adam Schaefer]

The irony of this, because we promote it so much and yet right now we're all going to say we're not doing very much. Yeah, I'm, I'm doing rdls only right now I've been dealing with a pain, forearm pain and stuff that I can't get to the bottom of. It's been an issue for a while and just heavy conventionals just lights it up bad. So like me doing RDLS, I'm not, I'm only holding like 135, 150 pounds. And so it's not very stressful where I deadlift. I deadlift 300 pounds and so, and that really strains it. And so I haven't been doing that. I'll always squat. So that is something that I never, I never not do is I always squat. Deadlifting moves in and out. I just, I mean, I just conventional deadlift though, like maybe three weeks ago was the last time I did it. But I've been doing RDLs more regularly right now because of what I'm dealing with right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I kind of go Back and forth. And mainly now if I do deadlifts, it's going to be trap bar deadlifts. And I've scaled down my squatting a lot too. It's not like you just mainly because of.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, you're like me with deadlifts. Squats for you are like me with deadlifts. You squat so much weight.

[Justin Andrews]

So like, and, and it's been so many years that I've focused on squatting that I think I was just trying to kind of give my body a bit of a break and focus. I'm. I'm actually more focused on building up my core again and just my control of my body. I feel like I've lost a little bit of that on command. Like, I can, I can move a specific way. Like, I feel like I've lost a little bit of that. And so it definitely looks a lot more like, you know, power and speed training. And, you know, if I do any hip hinging, it's definitely more like kettlebell work and swings. And so I don't do a ton of heavy deadlifting anymore. But I do go through periods of it. Like, maybe it's like two weeks or so and I'll focus on just kind of building myself up again and then I'll. I try and kind of get back to that.

[Sal Destefano]

What's cool about some of these compound lifts is when you, when you do them for a long time, you get really good at them. You can do them intermittently. Oh, yeah. And maintain them. Yep. The key is to never, never do, like, you don't want to not do a hip.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like if I, if I have to, like, I could go pull 300 pounds. Deadlifting.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know I can, like, and so, like, which is. Is not impressive, but it's also not weak.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what I'm saying? So it's like they'll always remain enough in the routine to where, like, I still have that kind of, like, foundational strength in it. Squatting for me is the main one that I never let go because when I really worked on my mobility and my hips and my ankles, the thing that keeps that now is just good deep. I don't squat heavy hardly ever anymore. Like, I mean, I rarely. I, I normally. Two plates is what I normally work. I just work out with two plates. But I go real deep and slow and control. I keep higher reps. Like, that's typically how I train all the time. And part of why that is so important to me, even more than the deadlift is just I find that it keeps my hips low, back and ankle stuff in check big time.

[Doug]

Next question is from Jessica Killshot. How would you explain the importance of dedicated time in the gym to someone who's very active at work and doesn't see a need for it?

[Sal Destefano]

You know, I have a lot of blue collar workers in my family. Family. And so these people, these men are very active. Like their jobs are workouts all day long. But I strongly advise them to go to the gym for correctional exercise. So the injury rate with, with, with very active jobs like blue collar work, construction work, you know, welding, whatever. Like there's a high injury rate.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And the, and that's because of repetitive

[Justin Andrews]

movement, muscle imbalances and you're not addressing the posterior chain.

[Sal Destefano]

Really. That's it. So I would, I'd have them go to the gym once a week, focus on certain lifts, correctional exercise. And it keeps them healthy, it keeps them injury free. They can do the jobs better. And so that's what it looks like. Now the average person is so sedentary that I'm just trying to get them to move. But you know, when you work with someone like this and you look at their eight hour day, it's like, oh geez, you're like super active all the time. You don't need hard workouts. What you need is correctional exercise.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I agree. And then even more specifically I'd be like, give me the job. Right. Like are you a contractor or carpenter? It's like, oh, you hammer on one, with a hammer on your right hand all day long. It's like that's going to create some.

[Justin Andrews]

Always raising your arms.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. Like so. Or a painter. Right. That does one like so, you know, give me the job. And I can probably point out the things that they probably have issues with and that we want to correct that and that imbalance out in, in the training. And that's what their training looks like is to support their work. Right. So you're, you're better at your job. You're not, you don't suffer from chronic pain. And so the gym becomes super important. In fact, arguably more important for that person. Because when you do repetitive movements, it's just like a lot of people think that like, like some of my most dysfunctional people were ex athletes.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it wasn't because they lacked being in shape or active. They were very active. But they threw a baseball with the same side.

[Justin Andrews]

They're locked in positions.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Thousands of times where they were punched one on one with their lead. Punched and jabbed. It's like so you have, when you do things repetitively all the time, all day, every day. Sure you're less likely to get fat because you move and you burn calories, but you're more likely to have imbalances and chronic pain. And so our training looks like supporting or correcting a lot of that. And you absolutely want to be inside the gym. And arguably as important or more important it, it becomes less of a conversation about body fat percentage or calorie burn because they move, it becomes more about

[Sal Destefano]

like protecting your body.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Doug]

Next question is from A. Kumar. Can intermittent fasting be used to stay in a calorie deficit?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Not ideal. You know, people like to do this because it's so black and white and so for them it's like don't eat, eat. And it can help them. But in my experience this just promotes really dysfunctional eating pattern. It looks like it's like restricting and then binge and then restrict and then binge and it's just not a good long term strategy. It can be a strategy and for some people who need something black and white, like I'm shutting it off at this time, you know, type of deal, I could see it having potential benefit. But long term, you look at the data on fasting for calories, the fail rate is just the size with any other diet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, to me it really depends on where this person is at. I'll tell you that I use this a lot but it's not a very good strategy for me to be in good shape. It's a good strategy for me to not put on a bunch of body fat. So like, like right now, a lot of times I will not eat till noon or 1. Now the problem with that is I almost always can't hit protein with that. And so it's inevitable I'm going to lose some probably muscle on that. The benefit is I, it's, I don't need a lot of calories so my calories naturally come down but I'm not in good shape. And if I want to get in better shape, it's not a good strategy. It's a, it's so it's a decent strategy for me to manage calories like the questions being asked. It's not a good strategy for me to be in my best shape or get in shape. And so if you're somebody who's like, oh, I'm happy with where I'm at muscle wise, like so like where I am, like I'm not trying to really make any major change, I'm Very aware that I've been in way better shape. But I'm like, I'm not trying to do anything special. So it's not a big deal that I don't eat till noon or one and I probably don't, I don't build any muscle or I lose some muscles, who cares? But I know that I'm not going to overeat because now I've missed. I'm behind a thousand calories. But if you're somebody who is also trying to get in shape or be in better shape, I don't think it's a good strategy at all.

[Doug]

Next question is from Josh with W Fitness. How realistic is it to want to work as a trainer part time? I enjoy my Monday through Friday day job but would love to help people and I am currently in the process of getting my NASM cert.

[Sal Destefano]

In my experience, first off, personal training is a high turnover rate. Okay. Anyway. And there's a lot of reasons for that. Mostly not good coaching and training from other trainers or fitness managers and stuff like that. But there's already a high turnover rate. In my experience, people who start as part time trainers, the fail rate is really, really high.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. But if you're gonna do it, the only way to do it is to go to a big box gym that's going to give you leads and clients.

[Adam Schaefer]

Problem with that though, Sal, is very few big box are gonna look. Yeah, I never wanted a part time. Yeah, it was like, that was like, I mean I, I had to like love the person.

[Sal Destefano]

Like the only way to do it part time is if you have friends and family that want to pay you a little bit to train them, then you can do something like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Your friends or somebody you know already.

[Adam Schaefer]

And if you have a full time job and you don't need to make money and you can be okay with only training one or two people, then you totally can do this.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, if it's like you're not trying to grow it to be your main gig and you have a job you like and you're like nothing. There's nothing wrong with, I guess having one or two clients at all times that you're kind of helping or training and that's the best way to start is probably with family and friends and maybe you get a reputation because you're so good at it that the word of mouth, they start telling their friends and family and other people about the help that you've given them and it becomes like this little side hustle that you have that you love doing.

[Sal Destefano]

In my experience, the only people that are interested in doing this are either students who are going to school so they want to train people and then I also want to go to school or people who are afraid to make the leap to fully committing to being personal trainers. So it's kind of like I'm going to keep my day job so I can make money and then slowly learn how to become a personal trainer is a terrible strategy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Terrible strategy.

[Sal Destefano]

Better strategy is save your money, give yourself a few months cushion of savings and then dive in head first. Your odds of success are way higher. Doing it that way the other way with kind of dipping your toe in the water, your fail rates like, I mean you're probably gonna fail.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't even know if I know anybody that's been successful.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't either. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating, rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.