2869: The Best Strategies for Getting a Crazy Pump (That Actually Work)

Summary

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2869: The Best Strategies for Getting a Crazy Pump (That Actually Work)

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Release Date: May 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the science and strategies behind achieving an epic muscle "pump" during strength training. The hosts reveal what actually causes the pump, debunk common supplement myths, and share the most effective, science-backed methods to maximize that rewarding muscle fullness. The crew also addresses listener questions about nutrition, recovery, overtraining, and practical programming advice.

The episode’s first half is a lively, technical, and often funny roundtable exploring what really drives a great pump—and busting the hype behind pump-focused supplements. The second half features live coaching calls with listeners, giving actionable advice on the topics of muscle building, cutting, fat intake, and recovering post-pregnancy.

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Main Discussion: The Anatomy & Psychology of the Pump

What is “the Pump” and Why Does it Matter? (03:23–08:00)

• Definition & Experience:
  The pump is the sensation of increased blood and fluid in a muscle during/after a strength training workout, making it feel tight, full, and big.
  • Sal: "It's been compared to other awesome feelings... it gives you a preview of what you could look like with a little bit more muscle." (03:23)
• Psychological Benefits:
  The pump is motivating and psychologically rewarding, often making people more consistent in the gym.
• Is the Pump Necessary for Muscle Growth?
  • Not a direct signal of muscle growth, but generally associated with it—well-fed, well-rested, and well-trained muscles tend to get better pumps.
  • Sal: “When we finally got that pump, I'm like, okay, it's going to start to build now. And I don't know if that was the pump or more that they were able to connect to the muscle more.” (07:00)

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Pump Supplements: Overrated or Useful? (08:08–11:14)

• Myth-Busting the Supplement Market:
  • Pre-workout “pump” supplements (citrulline, arginine, vasodilators): marginal effect compared to foundational factors.
  • Adam: “I was absolutely drawn to the supplement pump market…way later, when I got into competing and I become very dialed with my nutrition and now I'm really paying attention to hydration and carbohydrates… I'm having the best pumps in my life." (08:09)
• Realization:
  Consistency with hydration, sodium, carbs is much more effective for big pumps than most supplements.
• Key Quote:
  Sal: "You're not going to see citrulline or arginine [on our list]... Those might help a little bit, but they pale in comparison to what we're about to talk about." (07:56)

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Science-Backed Strategies for a Great Pump

1. Hydration + Sodium (09:00–12:34)

• Why it Matters:
  Most of muscle volume during a pump is water. Hydration, with sodium, fills muscle cells and drives fullness.
• Implementation:
  • Drink at least a half to full gallon of water before and during workouts.
  • Add 1,000–2,000 mg sodium (via electrolyte packets or salty foods).
• Memorable Moment:
  Adam: "Putting a half gallon of water in my system before I worked out and then drinking while I did was the craziest difference of pumps. ... And I've tried every pump supplement you can think of. It doesn't come close." (10:46–11:01)

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2. Carbohydrates & Glycogen Loading (12:34–14:03)

• Why it Matters:
  Muscles store carbohydrate as glycogen, which pulls water into muscle cells, creating volume and the pump effect.
  • On low or keto diets, muscles feel “flat” and pumps are weaker.
• Practical Tip:
  • Eat a carb meal (e.g. 75g) 1–2 hours pre-workout.
• Adam: “This is one of the things why I never liked low carb diets that much... the pumps suck.” (13:06)

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3. Full Range of Motion & Muscle Focus (14:03–15:23)

• Why it Matters:
  Fully stretching and contracting muscles during exercise maximizes the “pump and flush” of fluids.
• Practical Idea:
  Slow reps, maximize both the stretch and the squeeze.
• Justin: “It’s like a sponge, right? Being able to wring it all the way out and absorb a lot more…” (14:39)

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4. Higher Repetition Training & Supersets (15:23–17:58)

• Why it Matters:
  More reps = more blood pushed into the muscle (often 12–20 rep range).
  Supersets (isolation + compound) amplify the pump.
• Sample Supersets:
  • Pullovers → Pullups (lats)
  • Flies → Bench Press (chest)
  • Laterals → Shoulder Press (shoulders)
  • Leg Extensions → Squats (quads)
• Sal: "Supersets are just two exercises back to back for the target muscle... do an isolation exercise first, go right into the compound lift... it’s crazy.” (17:08)

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5. Flexing & Isometric Holds Between Sets (17:58–18:52)

• Why it Works:
  Flexing the target muscle between sets (as bodybuilders do) increases isometric tension, driving more blood in.
  • Stretch holds (e.g., holding the stretched position of a fly) can also cause a profound pump.
• Science Note:
  These techniques lower force output temporarily, so are not suited for max strength-focused sessions.

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6. Favorite “Pump” Exercises (23:37–24:36)

• Sample Favorites:
  • Upright rows for shoulders (Sal)
  • Rear delt cable flyes (Adam)
  • Supinated grip, close-grip pulldowns (Sal for back)
  • Heavy deadlifts + lat pulldowns (Adam)
• Athletic Exception:
  Too much pump can hamper performance for sports (e.g., forearm pump in motocross is bad!).

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Cautions: The Downside of Only Training for the Pump (25:05–27:00)

• Warning:
  Only chasing “pump” can lead you to neglect heavier, low-rep training, which is essential for building long-term muscle.
• Adam: “I trained the pump forever. ... What happened to me was I trained the pump forever... It wasn't until I really started to heavy and, and train and load and stuff like that. ... Now I touch a little bit of weights and get pumped up... It’s wild how that heavy training… if you avoid it for a long time and then you finally do it, boom, you’re gonna build tons of muscle.” (25:27–26:40)
• Balance:
  Use both high-rep/pump and heavy/low-rep modalities.

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Listener Q&A & Coaching (58:31–99:14)

1. Lindsay (Alberta): Gaining Glutes After Weight Loss (58:31–63:05)

• Problem: Four years training, lost 50 lbs, now wants to grow glutes but sees little progress.
• Diagnosis: Low calories (~1,600), fat intake low (~50g), high activity as a waitress.
• Advice:
  • Increase calories by 300 (protein stays, increase fats to at least 70g).
  • Use a glute-focused program; MAPS Muscle Mommy recommended.
  • Focus on getting stronger as the first sign it's working.
  • "If you're frustrated… then you would go into a bulk… you're going to have to go up at least 300 calories." (59:13–61:04)

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2. Alex (Florida): Plateau, Fatigue, and Military Fitness (64:34–72:25)

• Problem: Overweight, history of under-eating + overtraining, crushing fatigue, wants to get leaner for military tests.
• Diagnosis: Tracks well during week, not on weekends (= underestimates true caloric intake), long-term under-recovery.
• Advice:
  • Consistently track all intake, focus on winning the weekends.
  • Bump calories; increase fats to minimum 70g.
  • Reduce training volume; suggested MAPS 15 for efficiency.
  • "If that's your thing, the new goal is to crush Saturdays and Sundays." (70:07–71:12)

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3. Brianna (North Carolina): Plateau, Injuries after Pregnancy (73:37–87:49)

• Problem: Strong fitness background, lost baby weight but body is "soft," plateaued. Multiple injuries, overtraining history, struggles letting go of "all-in" approach.
• Insight: Hosts quickly identify an overtraining pattern, driven by psychological need for intensity; recommend psychological shift to doing less to get more.
• Advice:
  • Seek a coach for accountability and to prevent self-sabotage; hosts offer Mind Pump-trained coaches.
  • Accept a slower, year-long transformation focused on full recovery, slight gains, and sustainable change.
  • "You're going to be a great client. ... This is not a physical challenge for you. It's a psychological challenge." (83:51)

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4. Avery (Michigan): Dietary Fats While Cutting (88:59–99:08)

• Problem: On a cut for wedding, great at hitting protein/carbs, consistently under-eats fat.
• Advice:
  • Prioritize essential fat intake (switch to higher-fat cuts of meat).
  • Don't fear moderate calories; in her case, 2,200–2,400 is healthy and achievable.
  • “Only proteins and fats are essential. ... If you don’t eat enough fat, your body will not function.” (90:25)
  • Stay in comfort calorie range, follow MAPS Muscle Mommy for wedding prep, avoid stress and drastic diet cycling.
  • "Just enjoy your workouts. 2,200 calories. We'll give you a nice little recompense by the time you get married." (96:02–96:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The pump is part of why people come back year after year. It’s psychological fuel.”
  — Sal (04:44)

• “It doesn’t come close to just drinking more water.”
  — Adam (11:01)

• “You need the fat. I would cut the carbs and add the fat.”
  — Sal (91:53)

• “Chasing only the pump, you miss out on the biggest tool for building muscle: heavy strength training.”
  — Adam (26:26)

• “This is not a physical challenge for you. It’s a psychological challenge.”
  — Adam (83:51)

• “Just chill, enjoy your workouts. 2,200 calories.”
  — Sal (96:02)

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Timestamps

• 03:23 — Defining "the pump," why it matters, psychological & physiological sides
• 08:08 — Supplement industry myth-busting (pump pre-workouts)
• 09:00 — Hydration & sodium for maximal pump
• 12:34 — Carbohydrates & glycogen loading
• 14:03 — Full range of motion and mind-muscle connection
• 15:23 — High reps & supersets; favorite exercises for pump
• 17:58 — Flexing, isometric holds, and stretching for pump
• 25:05 — The trap of only chasing the pump, importance of heavy strength cycles
• 58:31 — Q&A: Lindsay, Alberta—Glute building after weight loss
• 64:34 — Q&A: Alex, Florida—Breaking plateaus, military readiness
• 73:37 — Q&A: Brianna, North Carolina—Overtraining, post-pregnancy changes
• 88:59 — Q&A: Avery, Michigan—Dietary fat in a cut, wedding prep

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Episode Flow and Tone

The Mind Pump crew’s signature blend of direct science, no-BS myth-busting, personal stories, and humor fills the episode. The show moves from technical education (with practical, actionable coaching) to relatable client stories and back again, making the science of the pump and effective muscle-building accessible—and fun—for both newcomers and advanced trainees.

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Takeaways

• For Maximum Pump:
  Prioritize hydration, sodium, and carbohydrate intake over expensive supplements. Emphasize higher-rep, full-range, and focused training, with occasional supersets and isometric work for target muscles.
• For Muscle & Progress:
  Don’t get trapped only chasing the pump; heavy and lower-rep training is essential for permanent gains.
• For Diet:
  Essential fats are non-negotiable—don’t shortchange fat intake, especially in a cut.
• For Plateaued Progress/Overtraining:
  Sometimes “less is more”—get help, embrace rest cycles, and listen to your body if you’re always “grinding” and hitting walls.
• For Sustainable Results:
  Consistency and psychological self-awareness beat hacks and fads, every time.

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For more science-backed fitness guidance and programming, check out the Mind Pump team on Instagram @mindpumpmedia or at mindpumppodcast.com.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Podcast Host Intro]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal Destefano]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, callers called in asked us questions to help them with their health and fitness. We got to coach them live on air, but this is after the intro. Today's intro was 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fat loss, muscle gain, the pump, current events, family life, always fun. If you want to be on an episode like this, send your question to mplifecaller.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one [e-mail] Our partners, Vita Bella, specialize in hormone therapy and peptide therapy. And if you go on their website or our site mphormones.com and use the code mindpump365, you'll get a free 10 minute consultation with a medical professional. Everybody does. Plus a raffle entry. And they're going to give away three free memberships and 10 free essential labs that they're going to give away. So you can actually win something. But nonetheless, go to mphormones.com, use the code mindpump365, get a free 10 minute consultation with a real medical professional. This episode is also brought to you by Dose. Today we talked about their cholesterol product. It's a natural supplement. Clinical trials show over 91% of people who used it saw an improvement in Their cholesterol. A majority, vast majority of people saw an improvement in their triglycerides and their ldl. It's an effective, all natural supplement for your blood lipids. Doug, in fact, is doing an experiment himself and he'll be reporting back on what he sees. Go check him out. Go to dosedaily co mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get 25% off your first month's subscription. Also, we have a sale by any Maps 15 style workout program by any other Maps 15 style program for free. It's buy one, get one free happening right now. There's two days left for this massive promotion. Just head over to maps15bogo.com all right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it.

[Adam Schafer]

Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

One of the best feelings you can get from a good strength training workout is the pump. It's been compared to other awesome feelings. I won't mention it right now, but it's amazing, it's fun, it feels good. It gives you a preview of what you could look like with a little bit more muscle. So what we're going to do is talk about ways you can give yourself an incredible crazy pump for your workouts. These are tips and tricks. Let's go. Do you remember the first time I got a pump? Yeah, I remember the first time I got a pump on my back because that was like a crazy. That was a big, that was a big deal.

[Adam Schafer]

That was way later in my lifting career.

[Sal Destefano]

That was for me. I was 15 or 16.

[Adam Schafer]

Way later for me. Yeah, yeah, way later.

[Sal Destefano]

And it was because I did dumbbell pullover superset to pull up and I stood and then I felt my lats dead.

[Adam Schafer]

Deadlift to lap pull down was the first.

[Sal Destefano]

That was the first time you got.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, it's the first time I, I mean I could, I, I like, I did rows and in fact I used to really like hammer strength rows and I could feel kind of a pump, but not like this. The first time I deadlift to a lat pull down was the first time I felt like my entire back. Like I felt like it was, it felt so different. And any, anybody's experienced that there is a big difference between getting a little bit of a lap pump or, you know, feeling your rhomboids a little bit versus like feeling Your whole back pumped up.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So the pump itself doesn't necessarily trigger or signal muscle growth, but I. I do. I strongly believe it's associated with muscle growth because it tells us quite a few good things that are happening to your body. Like, you know, if you don't get good sleep, you probably don't get a good pump. Nutrition's off. You're not going to get a good pump. If an exercise isn't connecting well to a muscle, it's hard to get a good pump connected. But I also. Even if it didn't trigger muscle growth, it definitely doesn't take away from it. But one thing is for sure, psychologically, it's awesome. And I don't want to ever downplay that, because people work out consistently years and years and years because they enjoy it and the pump is part of it. The pump is when there's more blood and fluid in a muscle than there normally is. So it feels big and tight, and you can see and look in the mirror and kind of get an idea of what that muscle would look like if it was more developed. So if you're, like, trying to build your butt and you get a pump in your butt, like, suddenly you could see, like, wow, this is what it would look like being more round. If your arms. If you want your arms to be bigger and you get a good pump now you can look and see, like, oh, gosh, this is what it would look like if I gained a half an inch on my arms. So I don't want to downplay that psychological component.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't even think I paid attention to it till way later. I mean, I know that, like, so my arms got pumped and that I would. You know, you'd always kind of, like, measure, like, your bicep and all that to your buddies. But that was about it until, like, I worked out with Adam one time. We did supersets the first. I'd never done it before, and my chest, like, blew up, and I was like, oh, my God.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, I.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, this is what you guys are talking about. It was wild.

[Sal Destefano]

It's awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

One thing I have a question for you, Sal, in regards to the science on that. Is there a lot of really good research that says that it doesn't contribute to, like. I mean, do we not. Is there not a possibility that it actually does play a role in building muscle and we just don't have the.

[Sal Destefano]

There's some theories around it. It's hard to control for.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

Because if someone's well fed, well hydrated, and they're having a good workout and recovered, then they're going to get a good pump and we're going to see more muscle growth. But is it the pump or is

[Adam Schafer]

it really all the other things?

[Sal Destefano]

So it's like, how do you separate the.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

I guess you could restrict blood, but that wouldn't be a good thing either. So it's really hard. It's really hard to parse it out. One thing is for sure, I'll say this, look as a trainer for sure, when a client had a body part that, that was hard for them to develop, the beginning stages of me knowing this is going to build was always the pump. It was like, oh, I never feel my back or my chest doesn't respond. And when we finally got that pump, I'm like, okay, it's going to start to build now. And I don't know if that was the pump or more that they were able to connect to the muscle more. But I always noticed that that was like the beginning stage of now we can feel the muscle, now it's going to develop, you know, type of thing, type of deal. One thing's for sure, we're going to go through this list. What you won't see on this list is anything in your pre workout. Okay. Because they don't make that big of a difference when it comes to the pump. What we're going to talk about makes the biggest difference. And you could test this out yourself and see how big of a difference this makes. So you're not going to see citrulline or organine or, you know, blood, you know, these natural vasodilators type of deal. Those might help a little bit, but they pale in comparison to what we're about to talk about. And I know this firsthand. I know some clients have trained. I know you, Adam, have experienced this as well.

[Adam Schafer]

This was mind blowing for me.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Because I was, I was drawn to all the. Because I love the pump. I was absolutely drawn to the, the supplement pump market. Right. Like, I just, I bought all of them and I absolutely used to take them all the time and I swore by them like that they, this is totally working. And not that they're not. It's just that way. Later when I got into competing and I become very dialed with my nutrition and now I'm really paying attention to hydration and carbohydrates and all these things like that. And I went, oh my God, I don't even have a pump supplement right now. And I'm having the best pumps in my life. It has very little to do with that supplement. It has way more to do with

[Sal Destefano]

these other things that you're talking about. And not to go too far in a segue, but that market, those pre workout pump inducing supplements, they sold so well because the marketing was brilliant. What they used to do in the magazines, this was, I remember this, they showed the before and afters and it was a before and after of the same workout. It was like before, pump, after pump. And I'm gonna tell you this right now, you get a good pump. It's dramatic. And I remember if you look at that, you're like, oh my God, that's incredible. I want to try that. And people like them. And yeah, some of the ingredients may help performance and there's some studies that support it, but it's the stimulant effect that people, I think like the most. I mean, this is why the stimulant free, you know, pre workouts are not nearly as popular as the ones with caffeine. So we'll start with the first one. Most important thing, be very well hydrated and have some sodium. This makes a huge difference. And I first pieced this together as a kid when I would have some food the day before that would cause me to hold water. So it was like a high sodium pizza or french fries or something like that. And I'd wake up and I could kind of feel I was kind of like holding a little water, a little stiff. Then I'd go work on this crazy pump and I started to piece together. It's like, oh, I've just got more water in my muscles, got more water in my body. And that's most of what your muscle is. That's what the pump is. It's fluid. Sodium helps you retain the water in the muscles and in your body, and then you need the water. So be very well hydrated and have some sodium.

[Adam Schafer]

And the bigger you are, the more water you could handle. Before and during this process, again, most of these, actually I learned not until I really competed because never once had I tracked water so diligently either. And because I was trying to at one point during this, this journey get 2 to 3 gallons of water in. Like, I had to be really methodical about like, how much I got by a certain time. And so what became really common for me was to get a half gallon in before I got into my workout. And then during my workout, I would crush another half gallon.

[Sal Destefano]

That would make a huge difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, my God.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Putting a half gallon of water in my system before I worked out and then drinking while I did was the craziest difference of pumps. And I've tried every pump supplement you can think of.

[Sal Destefano]

Doesn't come close.

[Adam Schafer]

It doesn't come close to that. And that was so eye opening for me, was like, here I am. I don't have any of these. I don't have any special supplements in me to induce this. And I have got the most unbelievable pumps right now. And it's just because I just drink a lot of water.

[Sal Destefano]

So I work out in the morning like pretty early, so typically like 6:45. So I don't have any food, but I make sure to have like a quarter gallon of water with a thousand or two thousand milligrams of sodium.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So I'll have like a packet element

[Adam Schafer]

or sometimes more, which by the way, Sal, is, is. And I remember when I put this, it's, it was kind of a duh, aha.

[Sal Destefano]

I know.

[Adam Schafer]

Moment for me. Right. Like being a young kid, of course, wanting to buy the supplemental thing. But it's just like a majority of what's in our muscle is water.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

And so it makes. And everybody and anybody also knows, or most people know this too. When you wake up in the morning from not drinking any water for eight, nine hours while you were sleeping or through the whole night, you look flat and you've, you look like you lost. Everybody say, oh, I look leaner and I lost weight. That's all the water that's come out of your system. Right. And so rehydrating and refilling that all back makes logical sense that the muscle belly is going to be able to fill up with that more. And so it was, it was kind of a duh, aha moment for me. But I had never been intentional with it. I never like, said, you know what? And so if you're listening to this and you've never like made an aggressive goal to drink significantly more water than you usually do before you get into your workout even. And then during your workout, I just urge you to do that.

[Sal Destefano]

Try it.

[Adam Schafer]

Like just try, just try that with the high like with.

[Sal Destefano]

And add some sodium.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Add some salt in there for sure. And watch what a difference your pumps are.

[Sal Destefano]

The next one is to have carbs. So carb glycogen does. Your muscles do store glycogen like your liver. And if you don't have enough carbohydrates, your glycogen is a bit depleted, which will make your muscles feel flat. That's the term bodybuilders use when they diet for a show, they just feel flat. So have some carbohydrates. Now I've had, I've been in a calorie surplus on a ketogenic diet and I've also been in a calorie surplus in a diet with carbohydrates. The difference in the pump is night and day.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It is hard to get a pump on a ketogenic diet. It doesn't come close to when I have carbohydrates.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, this is one of the things why I never liked low carb diets that much. And I know they're great for fat loss, they're great for curbing the appetite. I did, I did appreciate it for all those things, but the pumps suck. And again, another thing that I learned during competing, I mean, I had this down to a science. I had exact amount of grams of carbohydrates I need to have before a workout.

[Sal Destefano]

What was it, 75?

[Adam Schafer]

Yep, 75 grams before. And I would have this incredible. And if I did more, it would only be better, right? It was, I needed a minimum of that. I should say. Right. So I should be make that clear because I've talked about this before and I don't think I've ever made that clear. It's like that was all. As long as I got to that before, I would see a huge difference. But again, another duh, aha moment. Your muscle bellies are all water and glycogen.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So of course loading it up with carbohydrates and loading it with water would make, would fill, would give you the most potential to fill those up, those muscle bellies up. And so it was another one of those mind blowing yet duh moments for me when I actually tracked and went after.

[Sal Destefano]

And you can have the carbohydrates an hour or two before your workout. That's enough time for them to get into to, to get some glycogen in your muscles. Next up, really want to focus on a full range of motion. Stretch the muscle, squeeze the muscle. Stretch, squeeze. You are pumping fluid in and out of the muscle and you're feeling the muscle. So to get a really good pump, you really want to target the muscle. You're trying to get a pump in. And so when you're doing a back exercise, yeah, you could do rows and your back is working. But if you focus on stretching and squeezing and going through that full range of motion, you're gonna get more blood into that muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like a sponge, right?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Being able to wring it all the way out and absorb a lot more and. And make room for that.

[Adam Schafer]

Have they done any, like, good studies where they show, like, how much blood and fluid is getting pumped into the muscle in a full range versus like, a shortened range?

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, that'd be interesting to see. I mean, it's pretty obvious, like, the. The. You can feel a difference in it, and it seems pretty logical, but it's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, any exercise, there's. Any exercise I do, and there's, you know, there's benefits to doing things a little faster. Maybe there's benefits to that. But if I know I want to get a pump, I'm going through a real long, full range of motion, big contraction, and I am getting a stretch, and I'm getting a squeeze, and I am emphasizing both of those, and I can make the pump happen so much faster. Yeah. When I'm doing those two things right there.

[Adam Schafer]

Agreed.

[Sal Destefano]

Next up, higher reps. Higher reps is much easier to get a pump than lower reps. Not saying you can't get a pump with low reps, but if I really want to feel the muscle pump that inflate. Yeah. I'm going to go 12 to 20 reps. In fact, sometimes I'll avoid higher reps because the pump can get so painful. It can actually restrict me. Like, this can happen with my legs. If I go 20 reps, it's like two or three sets, and I'm like, I can't do too much more stiff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. At that point, I mean, when I

[Adam Schafer]

think of this, I think of, like, the analogy of, like, pumping up a tire, and the difference of if I got five pumps versus I get 20 pumps, I don't care how hard I pump that five. Like, the tire will pump up way more after 20 pumps in that tire. And so it's the same. Your muscle belly is the same way, too. And it doesn't mean that there's not benefit to. There's, of course, tremendous benefit to the low rep, but if I'm chasing a pump, I'm gonna do things like high rep or superset. Like, Justin's experience with me is like, that's the. The best way. Totally.

[Sal Destefano]

And again, like, this is. It's so effect. What we're saying here is so effective. Like, do you guys have body parts? Maybe you, Adam? Because I know, Justin, you don't chase this too much. But did you have body parts that got so pumped. Yeah. That they would hurt and you'd almost be limited.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Delts can get me Too.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, so me too. So, in fact, sometimes I'll avoid doing some of the stuff for my delts because it just gets so like, so they get so full it's hard to move. But other times it's fun. And I know If I'm going 20 reps and I'm going slow on the movement and squeezing and I'm hydrated, have the carbs, it's going to be balloon time with those muscles for sure. Next up, supersets. You brought this up earlier, Justin, that you did this. So supersets are just two exercises back to back for the target muscle. And you can either do two compound lifts, but if you really want to get a crazy pump, do an isolation exercise first. Go right into the compound list. Compound. Yeah. Holy cow. Does this make things.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a monster.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah. So like an example of this for like I talked about it for my back is I would, I did dumbbell pullovers, which is somewhat of an isolation exercise for lats to pull ups. For chest, an example would be flies to bench press. For shoulders, it would be laterals to shoulder press. For quads, it would be leg extension straight to squats. So you're isolating the muscle you want to get a pump in. Then you go to the compound lift, let the other muscles kind of help out and they inflates you. It's crazy. It's crazy. And then lastly, flexing between sets. Now there's definitely bodybuilders that do this because they want to see themselves in the mirror. But there's also old school bodybuilders did this because it helped get more blood into the muscle. And so when you're resting, you could literally sit there and squeeze the muscle and hold some contractions. There's an isometric benefit as well, but this definitely ramps up.

[Adam Schafer]

Aren't there some pretty recent studies that show the benefits, I mean, to intra.

[Sal Destefano]

What do they call it, interest, that stretching or. Or.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like stretching, squeezing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Don't. I mean, isn't that similar to that? Like the, the, the stretching is creating like this isometric tension on it is similar to that. Would you get the same type of benefit?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So that's like where you hold a weight in a stretch position.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what's wild about that, by the way, is you can get a pump with really deep stretching. I don't know if you guys ever experienced that, where you stretch a muscle really, and then suddenly you have more blood in there. So that's another thing. Flexing is One. The other one is in between sets. Now, this is going to lower your force output. So this isn't necessarily what you want to do when you're trying to, like, lift heavy.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not like a performance benefit.

[Sal Destefano]

No. But it's a feel thing. And there's some bodybuilders that swear by this.

[Justin Andrews]

I've experienced with that with like, a stretch of a fly, like just holding it there with weights, and then like, oh, my God. Like, the amount of blood that would just, like, pump through there is crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the downsides of the pump is that it's pretty disappointing when it goes away. It definitely, it's. I mean, you know, when you get.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, it's not functional.

[Sal Destefano]

No. And when you get really good at this, you can definitely see, whoa, this is what is my potential. I could potentially look like this. And it's. It could be quite dramatic. But if you do all this and you do it well, you can make yourself look very different 30 minutes into your workout than you did when you. When you first started.

[Adam Schafer]

I feel like all your fitness influencers that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, everybody right before they take pictures.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, nobody takes pictures every time. Yeah. Why would you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I didn't even know that. Dude did forever. I seriously thought everybody was just so.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember in the. Again, back at the. My bodybuilding days, because I was already doing socials by then, and, man, I'd see my competitors, I'm like, dude, they look crazy. You know, and then I'd be like, oh, that's because they're always like, best lighting, best pump, best everything. You see them in. You see them in real life and size them up like, okay, it's not that impressive.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Magic trick, you know, what's, you know, speaking of competitors. So oftentimes, so competitors who compete on stage, right, they're trying to show themselves off as lean as possible and dehydrated. They're actually trying to be dehydrated to an extent to give them the illusion of being even more shredded. And you talk to competitors and ask them, how hard is it to get a pump on stage? How hard is it to get a pump when you're trying to pose in front of people? You're not hydrated, you're depleted. You tried carb loading, but maybe you didn't as well as you could. Your sodium was low. You're been in a calorie deficit forever. You're tired. And you'll hear bodybuilders say, like, I couldn't. I can't even get the muscles.

[Justin Andrews]

That's like the art of it at the end, right? Is the.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I mean I took a. This is something that, you know, I talked many times about the things that I saw as opportunity for me.

[Caller Alex]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, I definitely do not think that I've got a great bodybuilding physique whatsoever and. But I, I had some advantages with my programming knowledge, my nutrition knowledge. This was one of the things too that I thought was like a huge advantage for me was like, oh, these guys were like, like having no water, zero water and then trying to use just carbohydrates like most of your muscle bellies water. Like you want to, you want to pull the water between your skin and your muscle, but all your water, you don't want to pull all of your water out.

[Sal Destefano]

Pulling all of your water out of

[Adam Schafer]

your muscle bellies is like, you're going

[Sal Destefano]

to make it almost impossible to get a deflated balloon.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So you. So I would, I was I still on actual day of competing, drink a quarter gallon of water, which in context of like competitors, that's a ton.

[Sal Destefano]

Some of them are spitting throughout the day. Yes. The water out of their system.

[Adam Schafer]

So I would, I would, I would drink a quarter gallon in on, on day, on game day, getting up there on stage. So. Because I knew I needed that water so to pair with the car and. But you do still lose the pump really fast because your body uses up really quick when you, when you're so low calorie, you're so depleted that you, you do these little rubber band pumps and you're trying to time when you're gonna go up on stage. And a lot of times I remember I would go thinking that it's about my turn to go out and then they would, something would happen, the show would get delayed and then you would, you would. Yeah, you would. Flat out. You know, this is kind of off subject, but I found this really interesting. Like, and maybe Sal, you understand the science even better than me, but I found that if I different carbohydrates and or pairing with fats, it when I would intake food would allow my body to be able to stay pumped up longer.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I don't know what the science is with that, but everybody says that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So everybody has their life.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So I had, I had so like one. I remember one show I got ready for and this was the first time that I used sweet potato with my, my chicken to like get ready for like the show. And so same amount of grams of carbohydrates as measured out as my white rice and everything like that. But something to do with like how my body process those carbohydrates versus then if I would have rice and then and. And versus rice. I know it's difference. And then versus when I'd have rice and avocado. So the best combination was rice, avocado and the chicken and something to do with. And what then the difference was how long I could hold a pump.

[Sal Destefano]

Interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

All of them had a difference. The longest pump that I could hold and fill myself out with was the rice. Comboed with the fat. Comboed with the.

[Sal Destefano]

My. The food that I'll eat that will always give me a crazy pump if I have it like a few hours before is french fries. Now it's not because french fries are good for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Sodium and the carbs.

[Sal Destefano]

It's hella high sodium and it's carbohydrates.

[Adam Schafer]

It's the sodium and the carbs, period.

[Sal Destefano]

End of story.

[Adam Schafer]

By the way, this is also why to you at that point, this is why so many bodybuilders swear by like the. The pancakes and the. And the. Or the burger and fries before.

[Sal Destefano]

It's the sodium.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's the sodium and the carbohydrates. It's just that you're loading up on a ton of sodium and carbohydrates that you've depleted your body up for so long.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you guys have exercises that you know like. Oh, this for sure. If I want to get a punt, this is the exercise. This is going to get me to just blow the heck up. Oh yeah. Upright rows for shoulders. For me, if I do upright rows, it's. It's gonna within four reps my shoulders.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I love those rear delt cable flies so much.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that's good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. If I. All I have to.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, you bent over the full.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Two exercises. If I do a. I obviously I'll do something for the full full shoulder. Right. Like a, like a military shoulder press or whatever. Right. A dumbbell press in those rear flies and my shoulders are blown out. Just those two movements, like for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

For back. For me, it's supinated grip, close grip, pull downs and I go all the way up, get a real deep stretch, all the way down, get a good squeeze. It's like half a set.

[Caller Alex]

4.

[Adam Schafer]

Four sets of heavy deadlifts over the lap pull downs. I don't think there's. I don't think it's possible to get it back more pumped than that.

[Sal Destefano]

Justin, do you even care?

[Justin Andrews]

I Was listening to you guys. I don't even know.

[Adam Schafer]

He's like, this sounds good. I don't want to inject.

[Justin Andrews]

That's one of those things. It's like, oh, this happened to me. You know, that's kind of how I look at it.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what's crazy about this is as an athlete, the last thing you want is a pump when you're on the field because you can't move. Especially.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it was always the forearms. Like when I would get a pump in the forearms, I would be like, oh, no. Like, I'd be panic mode, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

I had a guy, I had a guy hire me who raced motocross and I like, okay, so what are your fitness goals? And he, dude, he confused the hell out of me. He goes, I want, I don't want to get a pump in my forearms anymore. And I'd never heard anybody not want to get a pump before. And I remember being like, oh, crap, what do I do?

[Adam Schafer]

You know, we, we, we just had Phil Heath here and he told us, and I wish we would have gotten more. And we've talked about this and speculated on this a long time ago. And, and I, I, I wish there was some good science to support this theory that I have or that we have, because I think we've agreed and shared this. Where the pump can be bad. Where you only chase the pump.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Which I was that kid for a

[Sal Destefano]

very long time because heavy, low rep strength training with long rest periods doesn't produce a pump. And so you'll avoid it. Yeah. And avoid this great way to build muscle.

[Adam Schafer]

And, and so, and it just, what happened to me was I trained the pump forever. And I remember for years, like, man, looking at, if I could just look like that and I, then I would deflate down and feel like now I don't even look like I work out. Years I felt this way. It wasn't until I really started to heavy and, and train and load and stuff like that. And the biggest difference was when I worked out like that I didn't have the impressive pump. But then what I deflate, though. But I. Exactly. But what I look like is I look like I had muscle all the time. It didn't matter if I was pumped up or not. And then, and now what I see as I've gotten older because I've built so much of that muscle too, is like, man, I touch a little bit of weights and get pumped up and it's like, even if I feel like, man, I'm really deflated, I haven't trained in a while.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, man.

[Adam Schafer]

Let me get in the gym real quick. I'll get a pump and I'll look like a guy who works out all the time. Like, it's so. It's. It's wild how that heavy training, I don't know what it is we talked about. It's more, you know, I think it's just granite. Like, well, they all, they all build

[Sal Destefano]

muscle, but if you avoid it for a long time and then you finally do it, boom, you're gonna build tons of muscle. I had the same experience when I would lift heavy. I had to get disconnected from the fact that I wasn't going to get a pump. It's like, okay, cool, I'm just gonna lift heavy. But each time I built muscle. They both can build muscle, but if you stick to one for too long, like we talk about all the time. Yeah, you're missing the benefit of the other one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So big difference.

[Sal Destefano]

I know for sure. So I want to bring up this peptide stack that I just got from our partners at MP Hormones. Have you guys heard of the close stack?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, Katrina got that. Phil said that. Phil said that to her, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

So I'm going to look this up.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, so, so supposedly it's like, bro,

[Sal Destefano]

this is the best.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he told her that. He said this is because she, okay, she's always taken, like, you know, skin face, like, type peptide and supplements that we can get our hands on. And she would tell, she told Phil when we all first met what he was saying. He's like, oh, wait till I send you what we have. We have the, the. The best.

[Sal Destefano]

So I, I looked up reviews. First of all, I'm very familiar with these peptides, so I know, like, oh, this combination is amazing. But you also look up reviews and it's like, so it's got ghkcu. So GHKCU really increases collagen production. So it's good for gut health, but it's really good for the skin. Okay. And everybody knows that. Then you have BPC157. Everybody knows that. One gut healing neuroprotective joint recovery. But it also helps with collagen and protein synthesis and those types of things. Then you have TB500. This is a thymus peptide. This is good for hair growth. It's also got some benefits for skin. It's good for recovery, it's good for healing. And then you have kpv. KPV is anti inflammatory. It's also good for gut health. But when you combine them, the Synergistic effects for the skin. Because I've done GHKCU, BPC and. And TB 500. I've done that. That trio before. And you definitely notice my wife's done it. Definitely notice.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

We've never, never had added the kpv. Yeah. But I know KPV is another peptide that's good for.

[Adam Schafer]

Stack that and sit in front of the red light, man. That's like.

[Sal Destefano]

That's what she's doing. My wife's doing that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So that's the. That's the four peptide stack. And so we used it and what's cool about our partners at MP Hormones is it comes in one vial. So it used to be if you wanted all four of those, you get four vials.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You'd have to do four injections.

[Justin Andrews]

Mix it.

[Sal Destefano]

No, it's all. It's all in one. It's like a tiny bit. 20 units.

[Adam Schafer]

So that doesn't include the cream also. So there's another thing.

[Sal Destefano]

You can also go. You can also.

[Adam Schafer]

She uses a cream too.

[Sal Destefano]

You can also apply peptide to your face.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

And it's more.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. She has the injectable and then she also has these.

[Sal Destefano]

The.

[Adam Schafer]

The cream that she's doing.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Bro.

[Sal Destefano]

The before. So if you're listening right now, look up close, stack before and after, and you'll see people 30 day before and afters. And it's like, do they get a facelift? It's pretty wild.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Katrina and I talk about this a lot. We've talked about this a while ago on the podcast where we kind of all are at with, you know, anti aging and all the. The things out there and Botox and face and plastic surgery and like, I'm so pro. Doing things that are like natural and using the. Using all those tools to do everything you can to reduce aging. Not a fan of like, like, you know, injecting Botox or plastic surgery.

[Sal Destefano]

So peptides for people listening, these are. These are signalers that the. In the body, that your body knows what to do with. Many of them exist already in the body. Like BPC does. Thymosin or TB 500 is a. A piece of thymus and beta. This thing already exists in the body. So it's not a pharmaceutical drug. It's a peptide that your body already has signaling it. And so you're signaling. Just tissue repair, collagen repair, skin repair.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Is what's happening. And many of these. These peptides that you have in your body decrease with age. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You're not Injecting a foreign thing in there to, to kill nerves so you don't have wrinkles to do.

[Sal Destefano]

By the way, have you guys paralyzed your.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

The data on Botox is wild.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what it does. Right. So the science of what Botox does is it kills the. Right. It basically paralyzes. It paralyzes the nerves that make muscle. Yeah. That make your, your, your frowns or smiles or all those things like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Which is why did you know that. That there's data that shows that people with Botox experience less happiness? Of course, because they don't. They can't express as well.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And so there's this feedback signal. Right. So your brain tells you to be happy, but then your brain also receives a signal from your face expressions that you're happy. And so, and so what? They, so these, these studies show that Botox can reduce.

[Justin Andrews]

Isn't that crazy? Because it's like. Yeah, you're worried about these wrinkles. When you're smiling, you're less happy. Yeah, exactly. Immediately, like it affects your mood.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Doug, look at the trade off.

[Sal Destefano]

Look up how Botox affects happiness. I'd love to see those studies. I remember reading them a while ago and it's, it's pretty, it's pretty wild. Super common. Super common. People are using Botox at such.

[Adam Schafer]

Disrupting the brain's emotional feedback loop, paralyzing specific facial muscles.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, this prevents you from making expressions like frowning, which can subtly dampen negative emotions and boost mood. However, this effect varies by treatment. So you basically can narrow your emotional like I'm less happy.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, there's a way, there's a, there's a hack into the reverse of this. For on the positive side too, by the way, if you've never tried this, like it actually takes like you have to be very intentional and practice like the next time you're angry is like force yourself to smile and it's, you will feel a difference. So I know, like you will feel a difference.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, well here, try this fake laugh and try to realize you're good on real life.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you seen that video where this lady starts doing that and she goes like haha. And then the guy that she's doing this goes hahaha. And then they keep going back and forth and it turns escalates and it's real, you know, and then you're, you know, even just watching it, I started laughing. It's like it's, it's fake and then all of a sudden it's real.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what I mean, like, you could you fake smile when you're angry, and you will literally start to feel better. I mean, it may not get rid of the problem that you're angry about or whatever like that, but it will dramatically shift how you feel about.

[Sal Destefano]

You also think, like, a smile has to do with the mouth, and it does, but it's the whole face. So one of the most disturbing images that they've actually tracked. This is a face that's smiling without the rest of the face smiling. So it's a. It's a mouth smile.

[Adam Schafer]

You had Doug pull us up years

[Sal Destefano]

ago without the eyes smiling, and it just looks unnerving, creepy.

[Adam Schafer]

You had Doug pull this up a long time ago. It looks creepy.

[Sal Destefano]

It looks super creepy.

[Justin Andrews]

That marketing for that. That one horror movie where they're smiling.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Oftentimes crazy. Like. Like the. Like when they display a killer. They have a smile, but the rest of their body. Yeah, look at that.

[Adam Schafer]

That does look creepy.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude. Dude. Because your brain can't register what's going on, and so they look crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a creepy.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I watch whenever I feel like, oh, I'm, like, depressed or whatever? Like, there's this one video it was from. I think it was in. In the uk where they had this. This. This talk show, and they brought in people with, like, unique laughs and, oh, my God, I die every time I watch it. Oh, it's so.

[Sal Destefano]

It's a bunch of weird laughs.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, you know, everybody has, like, the most bizarre laugh you've ever heard. It's so contagious.

[Caller Brianna]

Where.

[Adam Schafer]

Where do you think that. Why do. Why do we all have. That's an interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Why do we all laugh?

[Adam Schafer]

No, no. Why do we all have different laughs?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it changes, too, based on who you hang out with.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, when I was a kid, I thought.

[Adam Schafer]

Weird.

[Sal Destefano]

When I was a real young kid, I thought people laughed in different languages.

[Caller Avery]

What?

[Sal Destefano]

I was really young. Oh, people. Other countries laugh in different languages. This guy.

[Justin Andrews]

Sorry, I was trying to think of.

[Adam Schafer]

Think about how. How unique that is. He's right. So that's an interesting thought you said, Justin. So you think that it changes based off of who you hang out with?

[Justin Andrews]

I do.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, much like our slang. Our slang does. Right. Yeah. I also start using slang when I'm hanging around.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you know, it's weird because I was thinking about that even with myself, because I. You know, you listen to yourself on the podcast or you listen just how you interact with different people. And I was. I was with, like, an old group of friends that I hadn't hung out with in a long time. And then I heard one of my friends laugh, and I was like, dude, that's my laugh. You know? And then I was like, ew, you probably affected me with your laugh. And then I picked that up, and then, you know, so. And then to. Courtney is funny because, like, the longer you hang out with somebody, kind of mold into that person.

[Sal Destefano]

And, like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, she has certain expressions that I've known. I've picked up on the same with her and me. And, like, she kind of laughs a little bit like me sometimes, and I call her out on it. Yeah, it's weird.

[Adam Schafer]

You notice that, do you? Do you know that?

[Sal Destefano]

I don't. I'm trying to think about. I don't know. I don't know. That's interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I like.

[Sal Destefano]

I like. I like it when people laugh heartily. You know what I mean? Like, they're really letting themselves, like a good belly laugh.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, you don't care. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's great. It's like one of my favorite things. When you're with a group of friends or you're.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I never knew I did the.

[Podcast Host Intro]

The.

[Adam Schafer]

The Windex one that they make fun of me, but I. I think I only do that on podcasts. For some reason, I feel like I

[Sal Destefano]

might be a fake laugh.

[Adam Schafer]

No, what I think. Yeah, it's like. Well, no, it's not a cursy laugh. What it is, is, like, because I know we're being recorded, so subconsciously I'm aware of that.

[Justin Andrews]

You're filtering it.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm. I'm. I'm filtering it. So instead of a bell laughing like, you're talking, he's saying something. I don't want to, like, laugh. You don't overpower it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think. I think I only do that on the podcast. I don't think I do that in real life. And unless you guys hear me do it in real life, tell me, because I don't think I do.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think I have. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I've only done it on the podcast, and I didn't know I was doing that until the staff made fun of me. I'm like, I don't do that.

[Sal Destefano]

I think our staff.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't remember when they made fun of me?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

They made like a whole, like.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Little Windex bottle. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys remember in school when you and your friend would get. Would start laughing, but the teacher's like, you can't talk, and you guys just couldn't even look at each other. You explode. Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Try to hold it in.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that was possible. That was the best. You know, what happened in public. I don't care where I am, by the way. It could be the most depressing place. I could be at a funeral. So I hear somebody fart, forget it. I'm gone. I'm gone. I have to leave or I'm gonna laugh. I'm gonna laugh.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't do well in, like, serious environments.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, because you're nervous, maybe.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's a weird tick. Yeah, I just. I, I. Yeah, I can't help myself.

[Sal Destefano]

That's terrible. I'm gonna come to you with bad news.

[Adam Schafer]

My son has.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm gonna be dying soon.

[Justin Andrews]

I bet you are.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm just kidding.

[Justin Andrews]

See, that's how I'm dealing. I have to make a joke out of it. You know, it's just how it goes.

[Adam Schafer]

My. My son is, like, super courtesy, right? With his. His farts. Like, he'll. Last night, I'm, like, laying with him, and it's like. But, like, where it's bedtime, right? Night lights are out. We already read. We're laying down there. I normally lay with him for, like, five or 10 minutes before I go. And, like, he does this every once in a while. Like, all of a sudden, he pops up and he gets up, and I'm like, what are you doing? And I got a fart, Daddy. And he gets out. So he doesn't fart on me. Then he comes back opposite of my house.

[Sal Destefano]

Opposite, opposite. My son was right on top.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

He did this to Jesse.

[Adam Schafer]

So I think. I think why this has happened is because when he used to do. Come on, buddy. Come on. Don't fart on me like that. Like, I think I've.

[Sal Destefano]

So now he's trying to be.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, like, so I think he. I've called him out on that before. And so, like, now he'll go, daddy, I have to fart. Is that okay? Like, yeah, dude, go ahead, buddy. It's all good.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no. Aurelius.

[Adam Schafer]

Will.

[Sal Destefano]

One time, Jessica was laying down on the couch, and he climbs up on the couch, sits on, like, on her head, and just. And now she was.

[Adam Schafer]

You know why you probably belly laugh over. How can you not laugh? How can you just, like, I reinforce my sons and go to. Hey, buddy, don't worry. Oh, no, dude, you've now trained yours. Because he's like, well, because daddy thinks this.

[Sal Destefano]

Of course, she got upset, right? She's like, oh my.

[Adam Schafer]

What are you doing?

[Sal Destefano]

And I'm just like, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. What are you doing, dude?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, right?

[Sal Destefano]

Just sat on her head. Like, God, that's the worst, bro. That's a bold move. All right, I got a post I want to talk about. Actually, you sent this to me, Adam, a couple weeks ago. We haven't brought. I never brought it up. That was a really good post. So somebody on social media did a post. I think they're a trainer. I'm not sure. They might be just a fitness expert or whatever. Let me see. Yeah, they're a personal trainer. And the post says why young people usually suck at training older people. People, do you remember this?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I'll go.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. So here's some of the reasons they say why young people suck at training older people. And I want to see if we agree with this because.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, let me hear it.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't. I, and I did read these earlier and I would have disagreed as a younger trainer, but I think I agree with some of these now. So, number one, they can't wrap their heads around how important controlling systemic inflammation and improving mitochondrial health is for health and performance. Yep. So what they hear is blah, blah, blah, because, you know, when you're a kid, you can drink like crazy, you could train like an idiot, you know, you could go to bed late. Right. Number two, they don't understand that some movement limitations are permanent. Number three, they don't understand general adaptation syndrome and how life stress and physical stress accumulate. Number four, they don't truly listen to what their clients want. And then number, number five, to them everything is black and white. Then there's risk management. Sounds soft to them. They can't accept the fact that full range of motion is subjective. What do you guys think about this?

[Justin Andrews]

Incredible.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I sent it to you. I felt like this was. This is every 23 year old smarty pants trainer right here. Yeah, that's why. I mean that it hit that button for me. It was just like, you know, all these things that when, when you're young and even if you're knowledgeable, right. And you understand the science, you have this very narrow lens at which you see training through.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

Once you've been training for a decade or two or three, and you've had hundreds and hundreds of clients and middle aged people, you start to realize like, okay, I need to understand the science. That's very important. Right. But then there's a ton of other variables that and that are individual to each person I'm going to train that I have to learn to balance and juggle. And this is what makes really good coaches. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I think the biggest thing thing that stands out for me with that is like young people, they want to assert that they, they know what, they're the right answer. They know what to teach this person and they're not listening, they're, they're not really receiving. Like that's a big one back. Like that's, I see that all the time. And I, I was guilty that too as a young trainer because like you're just, you're so focused on trying to figure out the solve. Like what's, how can I like put together the best plan and implement this with this person. But I'm not really listening to their actual feedback and well, full confession.

[Sal Destefano]

Like as an early trainer, I dismissed oftentimes what clients said.

[Adam Schafer]

We all had, we all.

[Sal Destefano]

When I had a mom that was, you know, stay at home mom, two, three kids or whatever, she's like, you know, I have a real tough time finding time to exercise. I like time you got. What are you talking time? You know, you'll have more energy if you do and it's good for you. And then, you know, I had kids in my mid-20s and I was like, oh yeah, like this takes up a lot of time. Kids are really demanding. I had to train a lot of people before I started to listen. The accumulated stress, one, I didn't get that in my early days as a trainer. Like, what do you mean? We barely. You're working out twice a week. That's not too much. And it wasn't until I had enough clients that would say the same thing, not get good results that I started to scale things down. I saw good results and I'm like, maybe I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Maybe I need to kind of listen to these people and change how I approach some of the stuff. Yeah. And then I became a much better trainer. But I do agree that experience can play a big role in how you train people. And young people are at a disadvantage. That doesn't mean you won't find a young trainer who hasn't been trained well.

[Adam Schafer]

No. Because look at our team.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you can learn.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. We train the hell out of these people or trainers and we teach them.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I love it blows my mind when I sit back and listen to some of these 23 year old kids that we have working for us and listen to the way they communicate health and Fitness. I'm like, they're, they're so far ahead of what.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, it took me 10 years to understand.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

What they. What they've. Wow. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Go back, read them over again because. And then let's pick the one that was the most.

[Sal Destefano]

The most. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

What was the biggest? Like.

[Sal Destefano]

All right.

[Adam Schafer]

Because we, we're guilty of probably.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So the first one. They can't wrap their hands around how important controlling systemic inflammation.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Is. That's kind of a big one. Yeah, yeah. They don't understand that some movement limitations are permanent. That's a pretty big one. Yeah. They don't understand general adaptation syndrome and how life stress and physical stress accumulates. I think for me that's the, that's the biggest one for me. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And they don't truly listen to what their clients want. That was probably another one because I'm like, I know. Yeah, I know, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Those two are bangers.

[Sal Destefano]

Here's another one. Everything's black and white. Yeah. Young trainers, everything is black.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I'm guilty of all of them. But I really, I really didn't understand the stress bucket thing.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That, that was a big.

[Sal Destefano]

I also didn't understand how much of a, how big of a role age played. Yeah, yeah. Like it plays a role. Everybody.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure.

[Sal Destefano]

Now you can make a big difference with diet, exercise, and you could be in a different category from your peers. Like you fit in healthy 50 year old. You are not like the average 50 year old, but you're not going to be like a, like a fit and healthy 20 year old version.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, another way to say that is we all agree and every trainer listening right now agrees. This, the stress bucket thing is a real thing. You're. You have a smaller bucket when you get older.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean that's like literally legit.

[Sal Destefano]

What?

[Adam Schafer]

You have a smaller bucket with more. Yeah, like, like you have more responsibility, you know I'm saying most likely have. Have kids. A business hour responsibility. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like. Yeah, that's the other thing with.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't even realize.

[Adam Schafer]

And your bucket is smaller when you're young. You have this big giant bucket with hardly any shit. And it's just like. So you can get away with a bunch of stuff and get away with poor nights of sleep and not maybe doing your mobility.

[Sal Destefano]

Sleeping.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. And still see results as you get older. That, that bumper. Doesn't mean you still can't build tons of muscle. Doesn't mean you can't be in the best shape of Your life doesn't mean a lot of the other rules in science doesn't apply to that person. It's just you're playing a different game. You have, you have a different side

[Justin Andrews]

and that can't slip really. I mean, you got to continuously make,

[Sal Destefano]

you know, when I was decision, I

[Adam Schafer]

was in my 20s, I didn't get that.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, no, listen, when I was 22, I had a gym with my partner down in, in a Palm Spring area. We had a gym down there. And I'm not even, I'm not making this up. Like, we would work till 10, 11 o' clock at night. Now the gym itself had a wine bar in there and beer. And sometimes we drink afterwards and we go to bed at 2am I'd wake up at 7am, I'd go work out

[Justin Andrews]

right back after it.

[Sal Destefano]

I would be wrecked if I did that right now. It would wreck me. And back then I could do that bartending. I do three, four days in a row. Sleeping, go to bed early one night, boom, I'm back to normal. If I did something like that three days in a row, four days in a row, it would take me weak.

[Justin Andrews]

Pain and punishment.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And I just didn't get it. I just. So you hear people talk about stress when you're a kid and you're like, yeah, what are you talking about? You have no idea. But if you're well trained, it makes a big difference. But here's the thing. When I talk to my family members who are getting trainers outside of the state, so these. I have family members outside of state, so they can't, they don't have access to our coaches. And I always tell them, okay, talk to the fitness manager and try and find somebody who's, who you feel like you can, can connect with. In other words, they're kind of your age group and they have experience training people like you. Because if you get some young kid and they're smart, they just don't have the experience to understand, you know, kind of what it's, what it's all about. You want to hear some cool, cool study on women's breasts. I knew I'd get you guys excited for that. No, this is a, this is an interesting, an interesting study. I gotta find this, this was about. Okay, so this is an interesting study. So the more a woman's breasts grow during pregnancy, the more likely it is that the fetus or the baby is a male. What? Yeah. So, you know, there's all these like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah,

[Sal Destefano]

yeah, there's all these like, like, you know, Old. What do they call them? Old wives or whatever. Like where you know, do you hold it high? Do you hold it low? Do you have more nausea? Do you have less nausea?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

They actually did a study and found the wrong place.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you ever do the ring one where you put a ring around their belly button and the way has to twirl around. Yeah, the way it spins.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

We did the Chinese birth calendar though.

[Adam Schafer]

We did the Chinese birth calendar too.

[Sal Destefano]

So when the baby was conceived in the mother's age or something like that. And it'll predict if it's a boy or girl. Yeah. Type of deal. So I don't know. But this is so. This. Can't remember. This says that this is due to the fact that male fetuses require more energy resources than female fetuses. So male fetuses grow faster, have higher metabolism, accumulate more body mass and generate more a greater metabolic and oxidative stress in the mother. So the mother's breasts because they contain.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude. How. Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that.

[Adam Schafer]

The body already knows what's coming and then starts producing milk at a higher rate.

[Justin Andrews]

It's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

And just wants to store more body fat in that area to do that. What's cool to me.

[Adam Schafer]

The magic that's so wild.

[Sal Destefano]

What's cool to me is that the like what they know about breast milk and how. Yes. When the baby. The baby's mouth touches the nipple.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

The. The woman's body receives a signal that the baby needs more immune factors. The. The breast milk is different at night than it is in the morning. So it like helps put you different nutrient. Yeah. Balance. Different nutrient balance. It's wild. And there's like a two way street like the. The. The boot. The baby's saliva sends signals to the mom to produce different things in the breast milk. Yeah. Chat.

[Justin Andrews]

GBT doesn't of that.

[Sal Destefano]

No, I bet it does.

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Justin Andrews]

What I bet it wants to.

[Adam Schafer]

How much of a. How. How much more are our kids on formula today than they were 30 years ago?

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's going down.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's trending down. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I think there's been a movement.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller Avery]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

So it was so there's like a bell curve then. So we've seen. We saw like.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I think it was. I think it was going up for a while and I think it's starting to trend down. If I'm not mistaken. You don't know if Doug can look this up. Is formula. Is. Is formula use trending up or down? Okay.

[Podcast Host Intro]

I was going to do breastfeeding but

[Sal Destefano]

either one would probably work. I think it's. I think it is going down. There was a big push at one point that it was because breastfeeding rates.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, there was.

[Sal Destefano]

There was.

[Adam Schafer]

There was marketing around that it was better for your baby than it than.

[Sal Destefano]

And that it was crazy. And that it's. It's more freeing. You know, don't breastfeed. You're going to. So you're more free to do the things you want type of deal. Yeah. It says it's been trending up over the last. Breastfeeding has been trending up over the last two years.

[Adam Schafer]

It's been relatively stable and declining slightly due to.

[Podcast Host Intro]

I should go in the US oh,

[Adam Schafer]

that's due to failing birth rates, though, Sal.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. No, no, no. If you look at it as a percentage, Doug, the last.

[Adam Schafer]

It'll be funny. This is not universally going down in

[Sal Destefano]

the US well, is shifted due to a mix of supply chain. Okay, so, Doug, go back to the first thing you brought up, because this is a bit misleading. Yeah. So breastfeeding rates have generally trended upward over the last two decades. So it's definitely. It's gone up a little bit. I think it's just better education.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, what does that say with national trends, Doug? Yeah, let me pull that. The percentage of mothers who start breastfeeding has increased, rising from roughly 73 in 2004 to 86 recently. That's a big job. That's a big jump. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

While many start sustaining, it remains a challenge. Yeah, it's a lot of work.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it's challenging for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

I didn't even realize until you become a dad and you see, like, oh,

[Justin Andrews]

you see what they have to go through. It's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

You're feeding a baby, then you put the baby to sleep, and then, oh, guess what? Baby's gonna wake up and you gotta feed him again. And this is happening all day long.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I remember my wife.

[Justin Andrews]

They get teeth.

[Sal Destefano]

I remember my mom. I remember my wife was, you know, when she was. Became a new mom with Aurelius. And I remember her being like, I can't even. I don't have time to pee. Like, she was like. She was like, feeding the baby. She had to pee real bad. But then she couldn't get off the toilet and the babies, and she's like, this is the wildest thing ever. And I like, poor lady.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, this is another one of those things that I talk about Katrina, how much I fell in love with her, you know, D1 athlete mentality. Like she was like straight competitive with. I mean, she had stored up so much breast milk, she was able to give it away and help others.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that's so awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you guys give it to her?

[Adam Schafer]

She donated to people that needed it and stuff. So she was like, not only did she breastfeed for a year, but she also was on the pump, like pumping out as much. We had a freezer just stacked of it in case, like, she. We needed it and so then she was able to donate.

[Sal Destefano]

You ever try it?

[Adam Schafer]

I actually didn't.

[Sal Destefano]

You never tried breast milk?

[Adam Schafer]

No, I didn't. No, I didn't. Did that experience. Hey, do you remember, Remember the, Remember the bodybuilding trend?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. What are they doing?

[Adam Schafer]

Dude, there's a huge. I mean, listen, ways. I mean, come on, we're sitting here talking right now about how, how magical. How magical it is.

[Sal Destefano]

Hey, I could make a commercial that would sell. There's only one protein that doubles the weight of a human.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it was an episode of Taboo that shows the watch. Like they actually went through it because there was a problem because some of these bodybuilders are going to like these wet banks and they, you know, and it became an issue because it's like they're buying it up and now, you know, they're losing reserves. So, yeah, it was. But there was interest for sure. Bodybuilders were like, this is the, the way to get, you know, maximal gains.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, Doug looked it up. Some bodybuilders buy and drink human breast milk. I mean, it acts as a.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, have we done, have we done any? There should be some good studies on this. It'd be cool.

[Sal Destefano]

I think none exists. I don't think, I don't think.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think people are promoting.

[Adam Schafer]

Why wouldn't, why would, why wouldn't we test this? I feel like we, we, we should test this.

[Sal Destefano]

Doug, look up adults drinking breast milk studies. Let's see if any exist. Yeah, not. Don't look on images because that'll be weird.

[Justin Andrews]

Breast milk studies don't need any Game

[Sal Destefano]

of Thrones and study these. Let's see if there's any studies to support videos. Scientific studies show no proven clinical nutritional benefit from adults drinking human breast milk, while compounds like human milk oligosaccharides are currently being researched in labs for gut and immune health. Yeah, I've heard about that because I've heard people help cure their gut health issues.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean, I mean, you know what that does for you. I mean, if you have a healthier gut, you're going to build more muscle. I mean, you've talked about what let the, our, you know, our partner seed the, all the studies coming out with them with the benefit of that. Like, I mean, you would think if that helps, that it's got to promote that. So I want to see more studied it. I want to see more research around it. Yeah, I mean, I. Let's. If you had to take a guess, cow's milk versus breast milk. Heads up for adults. Yes,

[Sal Destefano]

good question.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's like, I mean, it's the same species. You'd think, you know, we'd be more receptive.

[Adam Schafer]

I would think so too.

[Justin Andrews]

Just, just out of like dumb guy knowledge here, I think.

[Sal Destefano]

Brett, is this amino acid profile similar to cow milk?

[Podcast Host Intro]

Well, it says that breast milk is significantly lower in protein than cow's milk. Let me see about that.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, here's the deal. Human milk is trying to build humans. Cow milk is building bulls. So. I don't know, bro. I don't know, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

You want to look like a bull.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I remember when that looks like a baby.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember when that guy told me that. You remember Arnold's thing. I don't drink milk. I'm not a. I'm not a baby.

[Sal Destefano]

Speaking of experiments. Oh, wait, there you go.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't Doug doing one?

[Sal Destefano]

He's doing experiment. Let me see what this say. What does it say? Let's see.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Yeah, it's kind of not well organized for a quick reference.

[Sal Destefano]

That's fine. So Doug's doing experiment right now. So here's what he's doing. He got his blood work done and he's going to do a 30 day test with Dose.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, cool.

[Sal Destefano]

With their cholesterol, with the cholesterol supplement.

[Podcast Host Intro]

So my cholesterol tends to come in high. This last time I had my numbers in front of me, I got 222,

[Sal Destefano]

so 222 and you're taking Dose daily. So you're doing that, what is it, like 3 ounces or something? 2 ounces, 2 ounces every single day. Now go on the Dose website because the studies on Dose are amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I remember it was like it reduced it by more than like 50 or something.

[Sal Destefano]

It was a pretty.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I can't wait. This is great that Doug's doing this and actually did his blood work.

[Sal Destefano]

It should definitely impact his cholesterol. But I want to see what their studies.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Dose for cholesterol is right here.

[Sal Destefano]

Read what this. Read what their data shows.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I remember last time we talked about them, it had the percentages.

[Sal Destefano]

There you go. What does that say right there, Doug?

[Podcast Host Intro]

Yeah. So ldl. Let me get this pop up out of the way. So 95% of participants reported a positive impact triglycerides. 90% again, same story with that. And then total cholesterol, again, 81% had a positive impact.

[Sal Destefano]

So this is an actual clinical study that doses.

[Adam Schafer]

Was your LDL high or just your total cholesterol high?

[Podcast Host Intro]

Yeah, my LDL is at 146. It should be less than 100 according to them. My HDL is good. Triglycerides are good. So I'm really looking at the total cholesterol and the ldl. So we'll see what happens here.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's interesting. My. My lipids, like, I can't. I can't do anything to them that make them go bad. It's really wild. I'm like, no matter what my. I mean. I mean, sometimes I'm scared. I get my report, but I'm like, oh, gosh. What is it? Oh, everything looks amazing. Whoa. Thanks. Full steam ahead. But it is interesting how much. How much genetics play a role in this. But you can definitely affect it through lifestyle for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, how much is your like, okay, someone like Doug who lifts weights, super healthy.

[Sal Destefano]

It's one factor, dude. So LDL is probably the strongest correlate to certain issues. But you look at all. All of your cholesterol numbers. So your. Your total ldl, hdl, you can even break it down to look at the particle size. But then you got to look at other stuff. Blood pressure, strength, body fat. You got to look at your triglyceride. Like, look at all these, you know, all these other metrics. It's a part of a bigger picture. So by itself, unless it's extreme.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's not the best predictor.

[Adam Schafer]

So. Okay, so is it common with people that have. That do have issues if you with that are would be more serious situation like Doug, you're. I'm assuming that most. If he was your client right now, you'd be like, we're not really worried about it right now. We're fine or whatever. But what tends to come with that? Would high blood pressure be something that typically followed that for somebody who it's

[Sal Destefano]

connected to, who is unhealthy? Heart disease.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So that's why I asked about blood pressure.

[Sal Destefano]

It's connected to, well, blood pressure for sure. You don't want high blood pressure. But here's the deal. Doug uses dose and it improves his cholesterol numbers. Okay. That's a good thing because dose is natural. And so it's essentially improving his health. He takes a statin, it's reducing the production of cholesterol in his liver.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. It's a blocker.

[Sal Destefano]

Right. And that doesn't necessarily mean you're healthier. Now in some cases it could be a good thing, but in other cases, like prescribing a statin to somebody like Doug, there's a lot of controversy around that. It's like, why would we do this? He's super healthy. It increases his risk of brain fog, maybe even dementia. So I don't know if it's a good idea. And you'll hear scientists talk about this. It's a little bit. But if you have this dumpster fire and the person already had a heart attack, then they'll throw something. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Then it makes sense.

[Sal Destefano]

Then you see the data show. By all means.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. So this will be cool. I mean, you're really good about being consistent with your stuff. So I can't wait to see what a difference. So it'll be.

[Sal Destefano]

And you do it for 30 days. 90 days.

[Podcast Host Intro]

So I have three bottles. There's eight servings per bottle. So for 24 days.

[Sal Destefano]

And we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. Cool.

[Adam Schafer]

Right on.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Good to know. Butcherbox delivers high quality meat to your door. Look, if you like protein and you want grass fed meat, wild caught fish, you want high quality chicken, heritage pork and more, go to butcherbox.com mind pump. They deliver you a box every single month. Now you can meal prep. Now you got healthy meat, you got good protein. And if you go on that site butcherbox.com mindpump and you sign up, you can choose for free for the life of your order. You can plus $20 off. You can get free sirloin tips for life, free chicken wings for life or free ground beef for life included in your box. Butcherbox.com mindpump Back to the show.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Our first caller is Lindsay from Alberta.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi, Lindsey.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing? Lindsay?

[Justin Andrews]

Good morning.

[Caller Lindsay]

Oh my God, I'm so sorry.

[Caller Avery]

Good.

[Caller Lindsay]

How good?

[Adam Schafer]

Good.

[Sal Destefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Lindsay]

Good. I just had a question essentially about building muscle. I've been working out consistently for about four years. The first two years of that were quite low calories. So I was trying to lose weight. I lost about £50. Since then I've been trying to grow muscle but I'm currently in a cut. Obviously you can't build muscle that way. I'm just wondering, do you think I should do like a Straight up bulk. Should I do a body recomp? Because it's my main goal is to build my glutes, and obviously that hasn't really worked. And it's kind of getting frustrating because I got the workout part down pat. It's just mostly the nutrition and calories and stuff like that that need to be dialed in.

[Sal Destefano]

So we need more information, but just right out the gates. If you're frustrated with your glute growth, then you would go into bulk. Yeah. If you want to make it happen real slow, like imperceptibly slow, you could try playing the recomp game, which is really, let's say, like, takes a long time to see and feel anything. And also, considering your background, you said you lost a lot of weight with real low calories. But I do need more information. So let's start with your nutrition. What does it look like right now?

[Caller Lindsay]

Right Now, I'm about 16 to 1700 calories. I try to get. I focus on proteins on about 140 grams. I try to focus on whole foods when I can. I do track all of my food just because that's what I was doing as a trainer for so long. So it's just kind of been ingrained in me to track it. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And you're. And so how many grams of fat and carbs are you having?

[Caller Lindsay]

I don't really properly check that. If fat, I'd probably say about 50, 60 carbs.

[Sal Destefano]

Quite.

[Caller Lindsay]

I think a decent amount of carbs.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. That's why I thought your fat's probably really low, but you're definitely gonna have to increase your calories.

[Adam Schafer]

We're not building an ass on 1600 calories.

[Caller Lindsay]

Yeah, I know that. The only thing is, like, when I look online on a TD calculator, it varies hundreds of calories depending on which one I look at. So I don't really know what my actual maintenance is.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, if you're eating what is 16, 1700, and you're not seeing anything happen right now, then that's probably become your maintenance. What does your workout look like?

[Caller Lindsay]

I do four times a week. I do two upper body, two lower body, one focused on quads, one focused on glutes.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. And then your. And then what is cardio and daily steps and all that stuff look like.

[Caller Lindsay]

I don't do any cardio at the moment. I might do a spin class here and there, but I. I work as a waitress, so I get quite a bit of steps. Probably like 12 to 15, 000 a day.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, your calories are really low.

[Adam Schafer]

Way low.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you're gonna have to go. Go up at least 300 calories.

[Adam Schafer]

I'd like to put you on one of our programs, too. So I'd like to put you on a MAPS program and then bump your calories, at least 300 calories right out the gates.

[Caller Lindsay]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

And that's just a start. You're probably gonna have to go up again after that, but that's a good, like, little bump to get you going. And then I switch the program out. What do you call it?

[Justin Andrews]

Muscle Mommy.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you have Muscle Mommy?

[Caller Lindsay]

No, I actually haven't tried one of your programs. I just didn't know which one to do.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah. If you're. If you want your glutes to grow, that one's glute focused. So we'll send you Muscle Mommy. Follow that one.

[Caller Lindsay]

Sounds good.

[Sal Destefano]

Increase your calories by 300. You need more fat in your diet. That's pretty low. You're, like, at the borderline. So I'd get them up at least 70.

[Caller Brianna]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

And then you can take the rest of the calories and throw them towards carbs. Your protein's fine. And then follow Muscle Mommy. And if you're getting stronger, it's working.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Focus on the strength. If. Hold the 300 calories. Hold the 300 calories for a couple weeks. You should probably see the. The weight might go up a pound or two on the scale, but then it'll level off. When it levels off and it's held. Holding for at least a week or two, go up again and just keep playing that game. So the goal is, can I add 2 or 300 calories and kind of maintain the scale weight around the same? And as long as I'm doing that, I'm just going to keep bumping up those. Those. Those calories. And I'm not worried about seeing a fluctuation of 3-5 lb up or down. Like, definitely at least go down when you got to push the calories harder.

[Caller Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I expect you to stay around the same or even go up three or five pounds on the scale. Not a big deal.

[Sal Destefano]

What you'll notice is more energy and more strength is what you're going to notice right out the gates. And then Justin had. He made a comment earlier, and that's why it was really. Actually, I didn't even ask you this. Are you doing traditional strength training? Are you resting in between sets or are you doing, like, circuits and trying to.

[Caller Lindsay]

No, I rest quite a bit. Like three to four minutes in between.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, good, good, good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah, do what we said. You're going to get right out the gates. You're gonna see strength.

[Justin Andrews]

So that's good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, right. Within a week or two you're gonna just feel way more energy and way stronger and you know, you're moving in the right direction.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller Lindsay]

Okay, perfect. Thank you so much.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it. Thanks for calling in.

[Caller Lindsay]

Okay, thanks, bye.

[Sal Destefano]

It's so, it's so interesting how so many people, especially women, come up with the idea that they're going to build muscle eating 1600 calories a day. Yeah, it's not going to happen.

[Justin Andrews]

No, you need the food, you need the materials.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, no, no, it's not going to happen. I would say it's almost impossible unless you're a complete beginner and you start at a thousand calories, in which case you're super, you, you're severely under muscled. But if you don't feed your body, I don't care what else you do, if you don't have the nutrients, nothing's gonna happen. Wasting time.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, we, we were just somebody, we think that the building process is in the gym. It's not. No, it's, it's not in the gym. It's the rest recovery and the eating that builds the muscle. And so if you don't feed the body enough calories, you don't recover and rest properly. And that's the other thing too is like, you also have to keep that in. Like someone who's training four times a week is also moving as much.

[Sal Destefano]

Waitress.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, moving as much as she is and then that low calorie. So that's already, that's low calories. Even if she was sedentary and, and training once or twice a week, that's super low calorie for somebody who's going four times a week, training that high, that much volume and then also moving as much. It's just like. Yeah, you're not going to build on that.

[Sal Destefano]

And the thing to. Yeah, the thing to consider too is, you know, when you're doing something like this, are you seeing strength gains in the gym? And if you're not, something's wrong. Strength turns into muscle. It's one of the strongest correlates to muscle growth.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Our next caller is Alex from Florida.

[Sal Destefano]

What's up, man? What's going on, Alex?

[Justin Andrews]

What's happening?

[Caller Alex]

Hey, appreciate you guys taking the time to take my call.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you got it, dude. How can we help you?

[Caller Alex]

So I'm gonna do what I pretty much heard everybody else do. And that is, read my question, but I'M gonna add in some stuff that's kind of happens in, since I, I sent it in. So Overall context, I'm 41, I'm weighing about 245, 250. I'm 71 inches tall, had a BMI of about 35 to 34, and as of my last in body two months ago, I had around 31 body fat, which translates to roughly about 80 pounds. So for the past two years I've been doing a bunch of barbell training, lifting two to three days a week and trying to get back into running shape after I had a foot surgery back in 2023. To do that, I've been eating around 2300. So that breaks out to like 200 protein, 63 fat, 240 carb with about 35 to 40 grams of fiber, which when I started that was told that that was like a 2 to 300 calorie deficit for what should have been my maintenance for the two years prior to that, I was eating about 100 to 200 lower than that. And before that. So call that four or five years ago, I was eating at 1950 because that was a number I had. I believe that at the 1950 though, I was starving myself and I never like fully recovered from that. And over the course of this, what I figured out is I'm having some very crushing fatigue and I'm not seeing progress in the gym. To kind of make a long story short, I recently decided that the appropriate goal for me is to get into that 15 to 20% body fat range and not try and get to an actual scale number. I'm active duty military and they're changing fitness component to be a two mile run. That for my body size right now to get a passing score, I, as I marry my dirty loader here would need about a 16 1/2 2 mile run. I'm about a minute slower than that. All to be said, I don't feel like I'm making progress in the gym. I don't based on the energy crashes alone, I don't feel like I'm eating at the appropriate level for how I am training. And I am looking for help because I realized that what I am doing is not working and it is beyond my skill set to solve.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, all right, good, good question.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're correct. You're on track of like too low for sure.

[Sal Destefano]

Are you, is the tracking accurate? Like you're giving us numbers? Is this consistent you track or are you guessing or are you like estimating

[Caller Alex]

when I am tracking I am fairly consistent. I am using a scale now. I'm about 75, 70. I'll call it 70% consistent. Because obviously on the weekends is when I tend to fall off the track.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so we actually have no idea what you're eating then. So we need to know. We don't know because when people are. Yeah, they've done a. Listen so many studies on this, it's ridiculous. And even people who know are under. Just underestimate. It's impossible. So if you're saying 70, 75%, I can pretty reliably say your calories are higher than what you're reporting, probably. So that being said, knowing your background and your workouts and how long you've been training, I also think you're probably doing too much. Now. On the surface, on paper, it doesn't look like too much, but cumulatively over time, if it's been something that you've been pushing for a while and staying consistent, then it's probably time for less volume. So is the number one goal for you? Because we also need to prioritize what the goals are. Is the number one goal to get that runtime or is it to get leaner or is it to build muscle? We got to pick one.

[Caller Alex]

Honestly, at this point, it's the get leaner. It's probably been that for about four years, because I feel like if I can do that, the rest should flow from that.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Caller Alex]

Because I'll have, in theory, less to push around.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. So I would. Okay. Get real consistent with your food intake, including the weekends. So real consistent. I'd start you off around 23 to 2400 calories. You're gonna need to bump your fat. You put your grams of fat up there pretty low, so I wouldn't want to see you have less than like 70 grams of fat in your diet. I think your strength training is okay if it's a couple days a week with running. Or you could try Maps 15 and you can do. And you can focus on getting your runtime a little bit better, which would look like a couple runs a week. One would be one mile as fast as he can. Another one will be a slow 2 mile and. And you pursue that. But you got to be consistent with your tracking because they can't. You can't reverse diet yourself unless you know what's really happening.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, Alex, I'm gonna take a. I'm gonna take a guess at what happens right here. Just because this is kind of common when somebody is really good about measuring and tracking during the week. And then on the weekend they're not. And where you're telling us your calories are when you are tracking is low for what you're doing. So you under eat nutrients during the week when you're being good and then on the weekend you over consume in calories and probably still under eat on things like protein that you need.

[Caller Alex]

Absolutely, yeah, I think that's absolutely the case.

[Adam Schafer]

And so this is like a recipe for a hard plateau is that I'm doing all this work but then what's happening is I'm underfeeding the body what it needs to build muscle and to see progress during the week. And then I go on the weekend I over consume the stuff I shouldn't be eating and I. And then I spend still miss nutrients that I need like protein intake. And that is just like an absolute recipe for. I'm not going to build muscle. I'm going to hold body fat and getting stuck in that. And so I don't know if you've listened to the show for a long time, but you. I've talked about this a lot about winning the weekend. Like if. Yeah, if that is your thing. Yeah, if that's.

[Caller Alex]

That's where my battle is.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So if that's your thing. I actually don't even to start this kickoff focus on just those, those two days more than anything else. Like the, the Monday through. You've already proven that Monday through Friday you can measure, track and you hit stuff. It's like the new goal going forward if you're my client is we're going to crush Saturdays and Sundays. Saturdays and Sundays are going to be your best days. Like that's we need to go into. If you really want to see this change, you want to be dialed in then Saturdays and Sundays are become your best days. And then I know what will happen is the rest of your week will be pretty good too because it's. That's our.

[Sal Destefano]

You've already proven that's easy meal prep for your weekend.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. You got to be. That's got to be a of part. A part of your. Your weekend is meal prepping.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So like make that a priority and make that a goal is that I'm gonna track and dial my weekends in and then I bet you if you do that you'll start to see the rest of everything else come together.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. And then do you have, do you drink on the weekend?

[Caller Alex]

I don't drink at all.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, good. Okay good. That's it. We gave you.

[Caller Alex]

Because I got Tired of feeling crappy after I did.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Good.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude. No. So it's. It's what's happened. Adam's right on point. Do that. Exactly. Be consistent with it. Watch what happens. You'll start to see your body move in the right direction. Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

What program you want to send them?

[Sal Destefano]

Put them on 15.

[Justin Andrews]

15, okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Maps 15. With the running, it's going to seem like a little bit of strength training, but it's. It's. It's. I think it'll be.

[Caller Alex]

I was actually thinking about Maps 15 performance. Would that be something that was appropriate for what I'm trying to do?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Any of them. Any of them would be great. So let's send you that one then.

[Caller Lindsay]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

And then I'm gonna have Doug throw you in the. The private forum if you're not in there already. So I'll have Doug put you in there, and so you can just kind of keep us posted.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm guessing if you. You win these weekends for in the next two, three weeks in a row, you'll. You'll start to see a big difference already.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Caller Alex]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, Alex, that's it, brother.

[Adam Schafer]

Stay in touch.

[Caller Alex]

Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Keep us updated inside the form.

[Caller Alex]

Will do.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, brother. So when people don't track consistently and they give you numbers, this is just. Coaches know this. It's. It's under. Yeah, it's always under. The weekends get a little loose. Here's what it looks like when they actually. When they actually control this and they look at this. You know, somebody eats 2100 calories Monday through Thursday, Friday, Saturday, maybe Sunday, they get a little looser. It actually looks more like 3,000 calories on Friday.

[Adam Schafer]

It's worse.

[Sal Destefano]

So easy.

[Adam Schafer]

It's worse than that, Sal, because not only do they do that, but then they eat. You know what they do? They eat 70 grams of protein, and they eat a ton of saturated fat and a bunch of extra calories. And so.

[Sal Destefano]

And then you add it up and average it out, and it's like you're way over.

[Adam Schafer]

You're. You're missing your. Your goal protein for building muscle. You're over consuming the calories for burning body fat. And so you're in this, like, hard plateau of not seeing any results.

[Justin Andrews]

At least he's not partying late at night.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah. I had to ask that if you

[Justin Andrews]

are two on top of it, but yeah.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Our next caller is Brianna from North Carolina.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi, Brianna.

[Adam Schafer]

Hello.

[Caller Alex]

Hi.

[Sal Destefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller Brianna]

Well, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I'm just going to go ahead and read my email because I tend to talk a lot and I want to stay on time.

[Sal Destefano]

No worries.

[Caller Brianna]

Hi mindpump, My name is Brianna. I am a longtime listener since 2017 and have valued your podcast so much over the years. I've shared it with everyone I know and now my husband and I discuss the podcast daily since we listen separately on our drives to work. I would describe myself as a fitness fanatic and while I do enjoy all fitness to include running, don't hate me. I especially enjoy weightlifting and have been lifting for about 14 years. My overall question is where do I go from here? I had a baby 17 months ago and although I quickly lost the weight, my body was still very soft and soggy, mostly around the midsection. I've been steadily gaining weight and it seems like nothing I do is helping. I'm almost back up to what I was when I gave birth after coming back down to my pre pregnancy weight and I'm confused as to how I got here. Some background and context because I have a complicated situation. So 2014 I had a hip pinning in my right hip because I fractured my femoral neck. I made a full recovery, got back to lifting and running, completed a Half Marathon in 2016, began getting really strong in my lower body lifts continue this for nearly a decade. I ran a full Marathon in 2023. I lifted most of that training cycle because I didn't have a kid and any other responsibilities so I had plenty of time on my hands. I didn't run into some knee and foot issues at the end of the training cycle and probably over training now. Thinking back after that marathon I decided that I would take a year off, get back to lifting and then in 2025 I would run the 50th Marine Corps Marathon. Well, I found out I was pregnant in 2024, but I decided that I was still going to go forward with the marathon. I gave birth in December of 2024, trained for and ran the full marathon in October of 2025. At 11 months postpartum I had a relatively easy and uncomplicated pregnancy. I did anabolic at the beginning, switched to symmetry after that was done and then following my birth I slowly returned to lifting, doing kind of like what you guys say. I did bands only at about six weeks postpartum. Then I did a few weeks of traditional lifting with the stability ball. How you guys described starter even though I don't have that program and then I switched over to Maps 15 about two and a half months postpartum. But this is also when I had to start getting into running so I could train for that marathon. Didn't have time with a brand new baby to do both. My husband was also training for the same marathon. So we're just passing baby back and forth, coming and going. So I had to prioritize the running. Didn't lift as much as I should have and I think that led to some imbalances in my muscles. Following the marathon I had some hip issues again. When I got it checked out, there was beginning stages of another stress injury. So I was put into physical therapy, restricted from any impact activity and any lower body lifting. I had begun Maps 15 again, but with the restrictions on lower body lifting, it felt like I was doing hardly anything. So I switched to MAPS Muscle Mommy where I had a little bit more volume that I could actually accomplish in a workout. Sometimes I don't get to do the whole workout in a day. I would do a couple exercises one day, finish that workout the next day. I kind of do like you guys say, don't look at it as a seven day week, but just pick up where I left off when I have time. I've been tracking my protein. I get about 145 to 175 grams daily. I was assuming I'm probably around 2,000 to 2,200 calories a day. I've been doing that for the past 4ish months now. I eat all whole natural foods. I do protein powder and then my gym has an in body scanner. So I've been doing that once a month just to see if I'm going in the right direction. Other than that, I don't really step on the scale. I usually do 8 to 10,000 steps a day. I previously was cleared to do a walk to run program because my job does require a fitness test twice a year. After meeting with the doctor, he said hold off on that, nix the impact. I'm still clear to do lower body lift. Really have to listen to my body, not overdo it to not exacerbate the issue while I'm still healing. But it's been over four months of all this strenuous tracking now that I've stopped breastfeeding and my baby's mostly sleeping better through the night and I'm not seeing any weight change. And on the inbody scanners I'm not really seeing any composition change as well. I wouldn't really care about the number on the scale if I was seeing that composition change, but I'm not really seeing any of that either. I'm not sure if the inability to do any lower body lifts is affecting my ability to see progress, but I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and nothing is helping. I don't know where to go from here or how to make meaningful changes. I used to be really jacked and muscular and now I feel like I'm a bust a can of biscuits. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Please help.

[Sal Destefano]

Brianna, thank you so much for calling in.

[Justin Andrews]

Great descriptors.

[Sal Destefano]

I know you've been listening to us for a long time. You probably know what we're going to say.

[Caller Brianna]

Well, my husband asked me the same question and I was like, no, I don't. Because usually when callers call in, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm already pegging, like what you're going to tell them. And I really don't know. But for you, we assume that, Sal, you're going to say, give it grace, wait for at least two years to start feeling like myself. But. But other than that, I don't really know.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, okay, so let's back up. Right? So you had, you had a hip pinning, you had a foot injury, you had another stress related injury. You run marathons and you continue to run a marathon through pregnancy while doing maps anabolic and maps symmetry.

[Caller Brianna]

No. So that was postpartum. I gave birth in December of 2024. I trained for the marathon and ran out of 2025.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Okay. So do you feel like you tend to overdo it

[Caller Brianna]

maybe a little bit?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Give me a better answer. It's okay. Listen, it's okay to say yes but not be ready to tackle.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you had a hip issue. You had a hip issue and you decided to go still go run a marathon. Yeah. Like that wasn't enough for you to be like, maybe I shouldn't run a marathon.

[Caller Brianna]

Yeah, I mean, I was so close. I was like, after all of this, I was like, might as well send it.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, no, listen. No, I feel you.

[Adam Schafer]

That's the attitude right there.

[Justin Andrews]

I totally, I feel healing and recovery is boring for you.

[Sal Destefano]

100. I feel you. 100. So I totally understand. But you got to be honest. Like, do you think you're over. Do you think that you have a history of overdoing it probably in the past? Yeah, yeah. I think you, I think, I think that's your button is to go, go, go. And I think your body stopped responding after it Sent you a bunch of injuries.

[Justin Andrews]

Lots of signals there.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, there's a lot of signals right now that your body's like, you're just going too hard. You're pushing your butt. You're just like. Like the second you get clearance and you feel okay, you get after it again. Unless an injury stops you is a little bit of the pattern, and so you're just overdoing it. Hon, let me ask you this. Are you ready to let go of this, or do you still want to keep your arms tightly wrapped around this even though it's producing no results in injury?

[Justin Andrews]

Can we take.

[Caller Brianna]

Well, I have decided to give up running for the time being. I still want to be able to lift because that's what I really enjoy. However, with my job, I don't know how much I can give it up completely just because that would end my career, which.

[Sal Destefano]

What do you do for work?

[Caller Brianna]

I'm in the military, so we do have to do fitness tests. There is sometimes hikes or. You name it, whatever might come up that we have to do.

[Sal Destefano]

That's easy.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, no, no. That's easy for you.

[Justin Andrews]

No problem with that.

[Sal Destefano]

Now you're lying to yourself. Super easy for you, Brianna. You're training well above and what you need for passing those tests. You know that. Yeah, you could pass those tests, no problem. You could train for that. Easy.

[Adam Schafer]

There's not a. There's not a military marathon test, is there?

[Caller Brianna]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. I didn't think so.

[Sal Destefano]

And you definitely can't do it.

[Adam Schafer]

They're normally like a mile or two type test, and you definitely can't do

[Sal Destefano]

it if you keep hurting yourself.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And it's. It's really hard to let go of, but you're gonna have to, so I know what the answer is for you. I don't know if you're gonna want to hear it, and I don't think you can do it on your own because you've been doing this for so long. I think it's real uncomfortable for you to stop doing some things because you're forced, like you just said, for the time being. So your way of letting go of it is actually controlling it, Right? Okay, fine. I won't do it for now. Yeah. I'm gonna wait till I feel better. I'm get after it again, and then I'm gonna hurt myself. And if I do, then I'll stop until the doctor says I can. And I'm gonna tell you right. It's just gonna get worse. Bree, it's gonna get worse and worse and worse for you. And you have a kid now, which adds more responsibility and stress. And you're. You're still young, but as you get older, it's gonna. Your body's gonna rebel in ways that are gonna suck, like, really suck. And I don't want you to hit that.

[Adam Schafer]

Just out of curiosity, have you checked your hormones?

[Caller Brianna]

So I had done a full panel probably in 2023. I did a course seer where we weren't allowed to eat for like eight days. And we were running through the forest and stuff. That really wrecked me. I went to a functional medicine doctor. She did a ton of tests. There was no, like, glaring red flags, but a lot of things just kind of off.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller Brianna]

And she did put me on a protocol that kind of helped my body get kind of back to normal. And I've started doing some of those things again, taking some of the supplements, but I haven't gotten them checked post pregnancy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I would definitely. I would definitely do that. Just because a lot of the stuff, as much as you've been beaten up on your body and after having a kid too, this is sometimes where you start to see that start to come.

[Sal Destefano]

It's not. Listen, it's not going to help you, though, unless you change kind of where this is all coming from. Here's the answer. You shouldn't. You need to work with a coach. You got to let go of it. If I give this to you, I know what you're going to do with it. I can give you advice right now. I know what you're going to do and take. I know how you can take my advice and how you're going to apply. I've just trained a lot of people and so I know what it's going to look like. And you're going to let. You might do it until you start to feel good and then go back to your old ways. And I'm just letting you know it's going to get way worse and way harder if you stay on this path.

[Adam Schafer]

This is not a physical challenge for you. It's a psychological challenge.

[Sal Destefano]

You got to let. You got.

[Adam Schafer]

This is not a thing that you can muscle your way through and overcome it like you have with everything else in your life. This is going to be a psychological.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm going to encourage you. Okay, Let me encourage you a little bit. Okay. You're really coachable. I know you're really coachable because you're in the military. You know how to take orders. Okay. So you would work well with A coach. Here's what'll happen when you work with a coach. It's going to be scary, and then you're going to start to feel really good. And then the psychological part is you're going to want to do more, but you're going to feel really good. So I think sometimes the fear of letting go of all of this is, oh, cool, now I'm going to gain 50 pounds of body fat and I'm really going to get out of shape because I got to rest. That's not how it works. What it's going to feel like is like, huh, I'm starting to feel better. Hey, what's going on? I got more energy. And then suddenly. And then suddenly you're like, my body's responding. This is weird. I don't feel like I'm doing anything to make my body respond, at least not compared to how I used to train. That's right.

[Caller Brianna]

I have worked with a coach previously for probably about two years, up until I got pregnant. And then it was like I couldn't eat anything, and half the time I was too tired to go to the gym. So I just felt like it was a good time to, like, sever. And I don't even think she coaches anymore, but she had gotten me to, like, a really good place. I was eating probably close to 3, 500 calories. I was probably really lean, probably leaner than I should have been. So I know that, like, a coach is probably a good idea. Just don't know how to find a good one because.

[Sal Destefano]

Are you kidding me?

[Caller Brianna]

We got social media.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, no, no. We got them.

[Adam Schafer]

We have coaches.

[Sal Destefano]

We got coaches now. We have coaches that we hire, train, develop. So I'll send you. I'll send you somebody to call you, and if it works for you, work with one of our coaches. I'm going to give you just. I'm going to be straight up with the timeline. This is going to take a year. Okay? Now, that doesn't mean it's a year of no results. It's going to be a year of results, but it's going to be year. Probably a year of working towards no setbacks, where you're going to. At the end of it, you're going to be like, I can do this. Like, I could totally do this on my own. I see how this. I totally understand how I was before. I don't just know it in my head, but I feel it in my heart. And this is going to be a totally different relationship with all this. Your performance is going to explode. You're going to build muscle, you're going to be stronger, you're going to get lean without feeling like you're beating yourself up and you're not going to hurt yourself. That's what it's going to be like. But you probably have about a year of this.

[Caller Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Caller Brianna]

I think part of it is like, I know what to do, but doing it for myself is a lot harder. And so having somebody else take brain work out of it makes it so much easier because I just can do what they say.

[Adam Schafer]

And then I'm like, okay, that's great self awareness. Great self awareness.

[Sal Destefano]

100%. 100%. You're going to be a great client. I know it.

[Caller Brianna]

So is there any, like, I'm about to finish up Muscle Mommy, and I just don't know if there's anything that any program I should do next, especially with the limitations that I have or if Coach will.

[Adam Schafer]

Coach will modify it all for you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's their job. Their job is to continue to inquire much deeper than we've inquired and listen,

[Justin Andrews]

incorporate our programming in there and they

[Sal Destefano]

modify it on the way. So it's. What you're going to follow is maps, Brianna is what you're going to follow. Yeah. So the coach is going to individualize it, and as you work with them, they'll modify it as you go along because you're working with a coach. Way better than any of our programs are written for the masses. As well as we can write a program, it'll never be better than a coach working with you and individualizing it. So you're going to get maps, Brianna is what you're going to get.

[Caller Brianna]

And then as far as diet, like, I used to track, like, every single piece of anything that went into my mouth, but now that I have a daughter, it's a lot harder because I don't like being on my phone to, like, track everything, and I don't have time to, like, weigh everything out. I just kind of, like, have to go with the flow. Is there a way to do this without having to track every single thing?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. We have strategies. We definitely have strategies around that. 100%. You're actually the majority. Most people hate tracking too long. It just feels like too much.

[Caller Brianna]

I used to like doing it because it gave me, like, all the facts, all the data was right there,

[Caller Lindsay]

but

[Caller Brianna]

now I just, like, I don't have the time.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, 100. No, this will be great. And I'm gonna. You'll see us too, because we like to pop in with our coaches and our clients.

[Caller Brianna]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Thank you for calling in. You're gonna do great.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller Brianna]

Thank you so much. I've definitely taken so much value from you guys over the almost 10 years I've listening to you. And this is just every. My always in my car. Whenever I put the podcast on, I told my daughter, like, oh, Uncle Sal, Uncle Adam and Uncle Justin are. You know, they're gonna join us on our drive. And. Yeah. Because that's all she hears is my bump in the car.

[Sal Destefano]

That's so awesome. Thank you so much. God bless Brianna. Thank you so much. Yeah, we'll see you.

[Caller Brianna]

Thank you.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you. Yeah, dude, totally. She's gonna be. She's gonna be a great client. Yeah. But, you know, you see somebody in

[Justin Andrews]

there to call me.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, when I asked her, like, do you think you're doing too much? It's like, she won't admit it because I know what she likes it. Because I know what it feels like admitting it means.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, even with stuff like, yeah, I could do that for now. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's always temporary.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah. In the healing, it's temporary.

[Adam Schafer]

I just had it. I had a hip, hip, hip impingement, and I decided to go run a marathon after that.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like, while I was pregnant.

[Justin Andrews]

Rational thought.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, she's a killer, though. You know what I'm saying? Like, so that's how she's approached.

[Sal Destefano]

We direct her in the right direction. Okay, great.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Our next caller is Avery from Michigan.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi, Avery.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Avery?

[Sal Destefano]

Hello.

[Caller Avery]

Hey, guys.

[Sal Destefano]

What's happening?

[Caller Avery]

I'm doing good. Okay, so my question is about fat intake. While cutting, I consistently find that fat is the hardest macro for me to hit, especially when my calories are lower. Protein is usually no problem. Carbs are easy, but fats tend to fall short unless I really go out of my way to include them. So I'm wondering, when calories are limited, is fat intake something that can be slightly sacrificed in the short term or is unnecessary to consistently hit a minimum target of optimal fats, even during a cut? Essentially, how strict should I be with my fat macros when calories are tight and does the minimum number of fat stay the same whether my calories are up or down? Right now, my calories in this cut are around 17 to 800 or 1700 to 1800. My protein, I usually try to hit a gram of protein per pound of body weight, so I'm right around 130, but I usually go over that more in the 140150 range. My fats, I'm aiming for 60 grams, but I tend to fall under that, and then I just fill the rest with carbs.

[Adam Schafer]

So real easy fix, Avery, would be to switch your meat choices to higher cut. Higher cuts or higher fat cuts? Higher fat cuts. So I. When someone tells me they're eating that good of protein, which. That's. Which is great, you're probably doing things like chicken breasts, fish, leaner cut meats. So just switch to chicken thighs and ribeyes and enjoy a tri tip and go to fattier cuts. You'll be fine.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, here's why, though. Here's why that's so important. Okay? There's three macronutrients, right? Proteins, fats, and carbs only. Proteins and fats are essential. Essential. Carbohydrates are not essential. Okay? What that means is if you don't eat enough fat, your body will not function. So this is what it looks like in a female when her fat intake starts to be chronically low. Hormone issues, skin issues, nail issues, mood issues, hair issues. You ain't building no muscle, so you need the fat. Okay? And I know we sell protein all the time, but sometimes what happens, and this is more common in women than men, is they're like, cool, I'm gonna eat chicken breast and tilapia and have protein shakes because I don't want the calories. But you really need fat. You need it. I would. Let me ask you this. How often are you strength training? What does your activity level look like?

[Caller Avery]

So I'm currently. I just restarted Anabolic, so I'm in the gym three days a week. The days that I'm not lifting, I usually am. Just. I'll either go, like, walk for a little bit. I try to hit around 10,000 to 12,000 steps a day, and I can do that pretty easily just from my day, my day at work and everything and walking the dogs. But, yeah, so I'm strength training three days a week, and then 10 to 12,000 steps a day.

[Sal Destefano]

Feel better if you bump your fat and if. If your calories need to be a certain number, cut the carbs and add the fat.

[Adam Schafer]

I want to challenge. I want to challenge you another way, Avery. I'm looking at your. Your height and your weight. You are tall, you're 5 7, and you're 135. Instead of trying to cut into the body you want, try and build into the body you want. I get clients that are at this point, because at 5 7, I can have you shredded at 140150 shredded to the bones like you. So you can be a heavier weight on the scale just with muscle, with more muscle, and you'll look the way. You'll look 3% leaner. So you could easily go up to 145 and look like whatever it is, you're probably trying to cut down to 130, 120, whatever that number is. And it's just so tough to do that. It would be way easier to bump your calories to, say, 22, you know, 100 calories. And let's get strong and let's build and then. And not get attached to what the scale number says and watch what happens in a month or two. And I bet you have the body that you're trying to cut into right now, and you'll be eating more.

[Sal Destefano]

Now I know why this is scary, because I'm reading your email. It says you lost £50.

[Caller Avery]

Yeah. So two years ago.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So it sounds scary because you're like, oh, great, I'm gonna increase my calories, then the £50 to come back on my body. It's not. No, you're just gonna get stronger and build muscle.

[Caller Avery]

But I'm definitely, like, I'm not. I want to grow, and I definitely want to put on more muscle mass. So I've been kind of like, when I purchased Anabolic and ran it for the first time, I did have my calories, like, slightly above maintenance, So I was aiming for around, like, 24 to 2600.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Caller Avery]

Which, like, I can do easily, and I like doing that. I like, you know, getting stronger, and I really do. I want to, like, put on more muscle so that I can look the way I want to look with, you know, at my. My weight and my height. I want to. You know, I'm not afraid of, like, gaining. I just. I want to look good. And I know that comes from, like, I need to build more muscle, but I'm also, like, right now, I'm. I'm getting married in July, so I do, like, want to look a certain way for my wedding and everything.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you want to time it. What happened when you were doing the 2400 calories? What happened on, like, on the scale in the gym? Like, what would you get out of that?

[Caller Avery]

I felt really good. I always feel great when my, like, calories are higher. And I, like, you know, seeing my lifts go up and everything. It's really encouraging. But then, like, once I hit that point where I'm like, okay, I need to. I need to bring it back a Little bit. So that I can, you know, look how I want to look for the summertime and especially for my wedding coming up. So I've been trying to, like, go back and forth between doing, like, three weeks with my calories higher, and then I'll cut them back down for, like, another three weeks. And I've been trying to go back and forth, and I don't know if that's, like, gonna leave me stranded.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, no, no, no, no. Let's back up for a second. Did you gain any weight when you were at 2,400 calories?

[Caller Avery]

No, no. I. I maintain. I've been. I've been sitting, like, really comfortably between, like.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, Avery, Avery.

[Adam Schafer]

I said goalie locks.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, this is easy. Here, I'll give you a comfort because I know it's scary for you. You're getting married.

[Caller Avery]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. You're at what. What are you at right now? 1800?

[Caller Avery]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Caller Avery]

And I just reversed that this week. So I was. I took two weeks that I was sitting right around maintenance or slightly above.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Which was what?

[Caller Avery]

Around 24.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, let's go. Happy medium. Stay around 22, 23. Just stay there. Keep working out. You'll get. You'll get. You'll get a little leaner, and you'll probably be a little bit of muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Shave off.

[Sal Destefano]

Just stay there.

[Adam Schafer]

Weddings, July what?

[Caller Avery]

July 10th.

[Adam Schafer]

So we have. We have a lot of time.

[Caller Avery]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So.

[Caller Avery]

But the thing, too, is, like, I already started my dress alterations, so I'm not supposed to, like, fluctuate in weight at all, but I feel like, with my calories right in that, like, Goldilocks zone, I can and maybe build a little bit of muscle and stay, like, comfortable. And I definitely want to put more emphasis on my upper body and specifically my shoulders. So can I take some of the volume from the lower body and the anabolic and maybe put it towards Muscle Mommy?

[Adam Schafer]

You should follow. We should give you Muscle Mommy.

[Sal Destefano]

Muscle Mommy's nice shoulder and glute. Focus.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, Shoulder and butt. That's what Muscle Mommy is.

[Sal Destefano]

But here, so check this out. Okay, so you're getting married, which is stressful because you're planning it. You're doing all the. All the stuff for it. You're getting your dress altered, which means you can't change too much because it needs to fit when you get married. Cutting and bulking is also stressful. You're controlling everything. You're trying to watch this, like, what's happening? Just sit at, like, 2200 calories. From now till then, just Chill. You'll be great. That'll be your best bet. Stop going up. Stop trying to go down. Stop worrying about everything. Enjoy your workouts. Follow maps. Muscle Mommy. 2200 calories. We'll give you a nice little recompense by the time you get married. And you're not going to stress over cutting, bulking. Three weeks here, three weeks there. What's going on? Just enjoy, Enjoy now. Till then, relax, and you're doing just fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Have you. I mean, have you considered getting coached through the process? Would you want someone to coach you to the wedding?

[Caller Avery]

No. And, you know, there's. There's so many things that go into the wedding and so many expenses. I don't think it's like something that is in my timeline right now. Yeah, but, like, what you guys were saying sounds great. I feel like that I can easily eat that much, and that would help, like having that little wiggle room to be able to add in some fattier cuts of meat. That will help me with my fat intake.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude. No, I think if you stayed at 22, follow Muscle Mommy, and just enjoyed your workouts, you would get a nice little. You get a nice little recomp by July.

[Caller Lindsay]

Okay?

[Adam Schafer]

You're. You're, you're healthy and you're good, and you have plenty of time. There's nothing for you to worry about, just so you know. Yeah, there's. There's like, a lot of different ways that we could go about this.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, a lot of. Here's what happens. A lot of women in particular, guys do this too. But women in particular, before their wedding, they add way more stress with their workouts and diet way more, and they end up getting worse results because of. Or they rebound crazy afterwards. So my advice is just chill, relax, enjoy your workouts. 2200 calories. Just stay right there. Don't worry about gaining, losing, and you'll get a little bit more definition and build a little bit of muscle by that time. That's it.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna have Doug put you in the private forum so you have access to us. And then just as you, you know, keep. Update us like once every three to four weeks. That'd be great, how you're feeling and where you're at, because I think you could even end up pushing your calories more if you were already at 24 and you saw no weight gain on that. Because what, what will serve you the most right now is building as much muscle. And, and because we can always. Like, I could do with you. Like, let's say we got crazy, and we built up to 145 pounds, and you put muscle on. You're like, oh, my God. I'm too big for my dress three weeks before the. The wedding. We could cut hard.

[Sal Destefano]

I just don't want to add stress if this. If you're like, if it sounds relieving to you to, like, not worry about this, yeah, then do what I said.

[Caller Avery]

It definitely does. And, like, that's. I don't want to have to add more stress in the process and stress my body out with, like, trying to cut and go back and forth like, it is. It has been something on my mind. And I also don't want to, like, look a certain way on my wedding day that doesn't look like me. So I feel really comfortable, and I fall really comfortable around the weight that I'm at. And those cat. That calorie range is really familiar to me, so it does. Does feel like a little bit of five relief.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Chill. Enjoy your workouts. 2200 calories. Have fun in your workouts. Enjoy your workouts. Don't even worry about it. You're gonna be totally fine.

[Caller Lindsay]

Okay.

[Caller Avery]

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate your expertise, and it's very helpful.

[Sal Destefano]

Congratulations.

[Caller Avery]

All right. Thank you so much.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it. It's a stress that's the big. That was the main thing. I'm talking what you're saying, Adam, 100%. She's working with a coach, and she could let go of it. Yeah, but she's. I could tell right away. We're talking about. She's like, I go to three weeks here, three weeks. There's on top of, like, managing all the wedding stuff. It's like, no, no. Just relax.

[Justin Andrews]

Autopilot.

[Sal Destefano]

Stay 22. You're fine. You'll be good.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, she's such. In a good place.

[Sal Destefano]

She's. This is so good.

[Adam Schafer]

This is, like, such an easy thing to do that we have lots of options. You have plenty of time. She's already at a good weight.

[Justin Andrews]

She's young.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, she. I mean, she's got. She's already been at. She's already seen what 2400 calories to 2600 calories does not over training. Yeah, yeah, no, she's in a. She's in a good place overthinking it.

[Sal Destefano]

If you like mind pump, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you there.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Thank you for listening to mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.