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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2904: How to Reverse Osteoporosis and Osteopenia (The Data-Backed Formula That Actually Works)
01:54:14
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If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
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Mind Pump.
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Mind Pump. With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer
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and Justin Andrews, you just found the
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most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast approaching over half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode. We answered live callers questions. So people called in, we got to coach them on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 60 minutes long. Now in the intro we talk about muscle gain and fat loss. We talk about fitness, bone strengthening, current events, family life. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this, submit your question to mplifecaller.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Row Nutrition. Today I talked about their anti inflammatory supplement curcumin and resveratrol. And like all RO supplements, they use medical grade liposomal technology for delivery. You guys, I've been using this stuff for five days. I have way less inflammation in my joints that I started getting because I went back to Brazilian jiu jitsu. This stuff really works. Go try it out. Go to row nutrition.com that's R H O nutrition.com discount mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by zbiotics. So this is a probiotic that's been genetically modified to break down one of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption, acetaldehyde. So you drink this, then you drink like you normally do and you feel way better. There's nothing like this on the market. It's patent pending. Go try it out. Go to zbiotics.com that's zbiotics.com mindpump26. Use the code mindpump26. Get 15% off. We also have a brand new workout program, Maps Upper Lower. It's a four day workout split. We have a men and Women's version. It's 40% off right now. Go to mapsupperlower.com, use the code launch for the 40% off discount. All right, real quick.
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If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear? Over@mypumpstore.com I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.
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B
All right, today we're talking about how you can strengthen your bones, what the data says and what really works. In fact, it works almost every time. Reverse osteopenia and osteoporosis. Get started now. Let's go.
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C
I don't know what problem for this, but I know we've had some callers, I know we've had some clients that we've helped over here recently that I think were really unaware because they were fit people. This is, you see this? I think it's, I think there's an obvious group of people that everybody kind of assumes right away they think of this like elderly population that is inactive, doesn't eat really well and frail. And so I think we, when you hear osteopenia or osteoporosis, you automatically go that, that direction. But there's actually a, a good percentage that also fall in the fitness category. And this looks really different. In fact, it's hard to spot for the average person. You might see somebody, and I've seen this as young as in early 30s, all the way up to 40, 50 year old. Typically female clients of mine who are ripped and lift weights and count their macros and train three to five strength, train three to five days a week. And they look amazing, but they have been under calorie for so long.
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B
So I'm glad you said that. So we're going to get to all of that, but I'm glad you said that because. Because there is this myth, this belief that osteoporosis, osteopenia is inevitable. If you get it, it's because you have genetics that cause you to get it and stuff like what you said would actually enforce that idea. What are you talking about? I know this person over here works out all the time and they have osteopenia. It's obviously something that you can't fix or reverse. The causes are genetic. Not true. Now there are genetic predispositions to everything, but osteopenia and osteoporosis is not inevitable. There are things that cause it, that are very clear and there are very clear ways, data driven and backed ways. And also based on our experience, I've worked with a lot of people in this case where you could slow it down, stop it and reverse it. I do think it's important that we differentiate the difference between osteopenia and osteoporosis. So both of them, you have a loss of bone mineral density. Osteopenia, you're getting to osteoporosis. So osteopenia is like a warning.
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D
Cursor.
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B
Yeah, it's like a warning. It's like pre diabetes. Like, okay, listen, we don't reverse course here. You're going to be in osteoporosis. Osteoporosis, you're already in a category now where you have some issues with bone density. I have some data on both, just so people know how prevalent this is. So we'll start with osteopenia, which is just low bone mass. 43% of adults age 50/ have osteopenia. Almost 43%. By gender, it's half of women and about one third of men. Okay. So women do suffer from it at higher rates, but still one third of men will suffer from it. And it's typically after the age of 50 and definitely after the age of 65 is when this happens.
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C
How common is it in obese people relative to people that are underweight?
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D
That's a good question.
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C
Interesting to see that ratio.
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B
It's actually pretty similar. Yeah, we would think. We used to think that being obese meant that it protected you from low bone mass and low muscle mass, but that's not the case.
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D
So those MRIs came out.
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B
Yeah, yeah. Now frailty. So when people think of osteoporosis, they think of the really frail older person.
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C
Yeah, that's why I asked that.
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B
But that's when the osteoporosis is really, really bad. That's when it's really bad. But before it got there, they looked like you're a normal person moving around, maybe not active, but you do a bone scan, it's like, oh, we have some issues going on now. Osteoporosis. Over 12% of adults aged 50 plus. So by gender, 19% of women, 4% of men, and over 65, it gets much higher. 17%. So 12%. Let's look at this. 19% of women have osteoporosis. That's almost 2 out of 10. And then osteopenia. What did I say? Half.
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D
Half. Almost.
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B
Okay, so why is this a big deal? Before we get into how you can reverse this and what the data says, why is this a big deal? This is a major risk for mortality.
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D
Yeah.
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B
When you look at the data on what, what happens as we get older and how does our health decline rapidly? You know, what is it? What is it when somebody dies, Typically it's not this huge major, like, like out of nowhere event. Typically you look at someone's life, it's like the last two years of life really suck. Like what's going on there? Typically an injury.
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D
It's an injury. Yeah. And then usually what they say, if you like break a hip, fall and
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C
break your hip, die, pneumonia, that's a saying.
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B
That's right.
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D
Yeah. It just kind of creates this spiraling pattern.
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B
That's right.
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D
The rest of your health.
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C
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the explanation to that is you're so frail, you're so weak, you fall and you break your hip. Your body doesn't have the resources to fix it. And then all it takes is getting pneumonia in that state when it's working so hard to try and repair and heal this broken hip. And then pneumonia hits you, and then all of a sudden, it's just like it can't handle all that.
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B
Yeah. So they use pneumonia in that saying. But really, it means if you break your hip, you d of anything at a much higher rate.
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C
Right.
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B
So anytime you break a bone, you're just very vulnerable. You're immobile. You have to heal. There's a. It's catabolic on the body. It's a stress on the body. Surgery is a stress on the body. The stronger and the better vitality you have, the easier time you have recovering. If you're getting older and you're already frail and you've already got bone mass issues and you already have not that great a mobility, and then you break something and you're immobile, Health declines very rapidly, by the way. The data shows it's not just your body's health, it's your brain's health as well. Dementia rate goes up dramatically. You get depression, anxiety. So you don't want to break anything. You don't want to become injured because your bones are weak as you get older. So that's kind of what's happening. And it's a lot of people. It's a lot of people that have this particular issue. Now, that's the bad news. The good news is this. It is very treatable. This is one of those things where it's like, if you do these things, the odds that you will slow down, pause, and probably reverse bone mass losses is high. So this is like, you can fix this, you guys, but you gotta do the things that we're gonna talk about.
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A
Yeah.
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D
Well, I'd like to get into a little bit, though, of, like, if they're gonna go to the doctor, like, what does that protocol look like? Cause I know for a while there, they would just put them on medications like Fosamax or. Or, yeah, like, some calcium supplements.
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B
So doctors will recommend a lot of what we're about to talk about. The problem is doctors are not coaches, trainers, and nutritionists.
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D
Right.
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B
So doctors will typically say, hey, here's the things you probably should do more of, but there's no coaching involved. Well, what does that look like? Well, I kind of don't know. Or here's what the recommendations look like. Kind of general. And then there's medications that they may recommend.
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C
I wonder what the success rate is of that.
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B
Not great. Yeah.
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D
No, I'm curious. Not great too, right?
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C
I mean, just imagine that you, if
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you got great, how good are doctors at treating obesity?
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C
I mean, just imagine, you know, you, you got to this place because of most likely malnutrition, not taking care of your body, not lifting weights, not doing those things. You're probably most often advanced age, go to the doctor and they tell you this and he says, do this, do that, do this and see you on your way. Like the likelihood that that person makes all those changes and then also does it correctly. Because that's the other part I think of this.
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B
There's also just this perception that this is kind of inevitable, you know.
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D
Yeah. Look at your age.
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And they're like, okay, in fact, in fact I can find articles right now. Or it's almost like, well, you really can't do much about this or here's some of the things you can do. But it doesn't do much, which is not true. The data, there's, there's really good data on this, everybody. You can find it. This is something that you could definitely do something about. And it's not a lot of crazy stuff. No, it's really just being consistent in the things that we're about to talk about. And what you find in older populations that do all the things that we're talking about, their bone density is amazing. They've got the bones of 20 year olds. When you find a 7 year old that's doing all of these things. So this is totally, this is a process of adaptation, everybody. So as you age, if you don't give your body a reason to remain strong or resilient, it slowly becomes less resilient and it slowly becomes weaker. So you see muscle loss, excuse me, muscle mass loss, strength loss, mobility loss and bone mass loss. But if you do the things we're going to talk about, you will halt that all from happening in dramatic ways. Dramatic ways. So we'll talk about the first one which is get stronger. Now, I didn't put lift weights here because yes, you need to lift weights, but sometimes when I say lift weights, people just lift weights and don't realize that if they're not getting stronger, they're not going to get the benefits from from the lifting weights. So they'll, they'll lift weights either in a circuit fashion or they'll use the same 5 pound dumbbells all the time. Because here I'm lifting weights. But the signal that is the, the adaptation that is telling you we're moving in the right direction. Everybody is strength. So when you're lifting weights, the goal is to lift weights to get stronger. If you're getting stronger, your bones are going to get stronger.
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D
Yep.
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B
Okay. Now, it's not a one to one correlation, but it's the best objective measure we have because some strength gains come from just your central nervous system firing better. But what's downstream of that are muscles are pulling harder on the ligaments and tend on the tendons which pull harder on the bones. The bones strengthen as a result. So if you're going to lift weights, the idea is to get stronger. If you're lifting weights and you're not getting stronger either because you're doing circuit training, you're not doing traditional strength training, or you're using the same weight all the time, you're doing very little in terms of improving your bone mass density.
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C
Right. And this is in the context of somebody who is, we're trying to reverse osteopenia or osteoporosis. Right. If you, or somebody who is listening to this and you're like, I just want to do things preventative, that might look like just maintaining strength. Let's say you have somebody who's like,
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B
you already lift weights.
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C
Yeah. You and have gotten strong. Right. Like, let's say you've gotten, you know, two times your body weight and squatting and deadlifting and all those great lifts and you don't have this. You just maintain you're good and you're going to be good.
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B
You're good. But if you're listening, so. So what this looks like is traditional strength training. This is what gets you stronger. So this is what it looks like. You do a set of so many reps, eight reps or 10 reps, it's challenging. So the reps that you do, you can maybe do two more if you squeeze out as much as you can. But you don't, you stop 2 reps 2 reps short of that, that's the intensity that you're chasing. And then you rest for two minutes, not because you have to rest, but because this is how you get strength. This is how you build strength. You rest for two to three minutes and then you repeat the set again. Now you want to do exercises that are appropriate and I don't care. You don't have to do any stronger. Getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction. So just give an example. When I would train people in advanced age, you know, 70, 80 years old, they never strength trained before. They'd come to me with osteopenia, osteoporosis. Here's an example of how they would get stronger. It's a very classic example. They'd come in, I'd do my assessment, I'd have them sit in a chair and try to stand up. And if they could do that without, without their hands, that became our exercise.
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D
Yeah.
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B
Okay, we're going to sit down and stand up and I'm going to watch your form. It looks like, ooh, eight reps. Looks like maybe one more we could do. But we're going to rest. We'll sit here and rest. That's your squats.
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D
I know.
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That's the exercise.
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D
It's so functional too, for their everyday life. Like you're always going to be looking for a chair or couch or whatever, like even the toilet. And it's like, you know, to strengthen that pattern, you know, definitely benefits their lives.
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B
Yeah. And I'm going to say this. Your strength gains will come just as quickly as a percentage of your overall strength as they do for a 20 year old. That's what the data shows. It's very clear your ultimate potential is different than a 20 year old. But you'll see yourself get stronger relatively consistently, especially the first year that you're doing this. So I would get a client. I'm just, again, I'm giving you examples of actual people I worked with who could maybe sit down and stand up five times. Two months later, 20. Yeah, like that's how dramatic of a difference over a two month period that they'd get that strength. By the way, how often should I strength train? Two days a week. That's it. Two days a week, you're fine. Two days a week is enough to make this happen. Number two. And here's now pointing to what Adam was talking about because he mentioned what about the people that strength train all the time and still have bone mass issues. Here's the problem. They're eating too little. So you see this a lot in the fitness space. This is kind of an orthorexic eating disorder type where they count everything. They're so afraid of gaining any ounce of body fat. They do all the right things in the workout, but they're constantly undereating, which will cause your bones to weaken. If you're Trying to get stronger, you need to fuel the strength gains, you need to fuel the muscle gain, which means you got to eat enough to do it, especially protein and.
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C
Or over training. So it looks like that sometimes burning out, right? Because somebody might be like, well, I eat a good amount of calories, but not relative to the amount of training that they're doing. Right. So they are training six days a week intensely. Plus they go on bike rides and marathon running and all kinds of. Then they do all these things to maintain that body fat percentage, or they. Or they intentionally walk 20,000 steps every single day to keep their calorie burn up and movement up. And so even though they may not be what the average person may think is a dangerously low place of calories, say 23, 20, 400 calories, but then their activity level and their amount of training they're doing is so high that this happens also. So it can be a combination or just one by itself. So it could be just grossly undereating for a very long period of time and still strength training, or it can be both undereating and. And many times in these fitness people, like the orthorexic ones, it looks like that. It looks like both. It looks like too much exercise, not enough food. Yeah, too much exercise and not enough food. It results in this.
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D
I mean, this is the alarm for me with, you know, the GLP1 100. And I just talked about this one of Courtney's friends just recently, because she's pretty fit, and then, like, went through, like, basically a year of, like, messing around with GLP1s and, you know, shaving a lot of weight off, but was still maintaining a lot of exercise, but was just not eating barely any, like, enough calories to sustain, you know, what she was doing. So, yeah, the osteopenia came in.
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B
I'm glad you said that because there's. You're seeing articles now where people are, oh, my God, I was in a GLP for a year, two years. Now I'm in osteopenia. What happened? The GLP doesn't cause bone weakening, has nothing to do with that. It's that they're eating so little that you will lose just, like, muscle mass. If you lose muscle mass, you're at risk of losing bone mass.
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D
Yup.
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B
Okay. Bone and muscle are very closely connected. Muscles get stronger and build. Bones get stronger and build. Muscles get weaker and you lose them. Bones tend to get weaker and you lose them. They're very, very closely connected. So if you're eating properly and strength training properly, what you will see are strength gains with your exercises, whether it be your squats or your presses or your rows or whatever the exercise you're doing, you'll see strength gains and you have to fuel that with the right amount of food and protein, otherwise it's just not going to happen.
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C
You know, this is one of the things that I love about what the DEX scan does do, that it does show a bone density test.
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B
Yes.
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C
You know, traditionally as trainers we always just did, you know, body fat calipers or the.
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B
No way of testing it.
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C
Yeah, we did not test bone density and the DEXA scan actually does bone density and so you can take. And I like that a lot because you have some I. And I've seen this in young, 20, 30 year old female clients that are especially. This is common. You see this in like the bikini world, like bikini competitors that are used to really hardcore dieting and lots of cardio but they strength train and they have muscles and they have, they look to the average person but their bone density is really, especially for their age is extremely low. This can highlight like that you've been, you've been teetering in that direction already and you know, hopefully seeing that at a young enough age can course correct before you get into a dangerous place.
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B
I'll tell you, I'll say this again. The strength training protocol is a couple days a week and eat to build for somebody who actually has osteopenia, osteoporosis or getting close to osteopenia. That's the formula. That's it. No more than that. In fact, we have a program that if you're listening and you've never done strength training maps starter, follow that and then you'll get stronger at the lifts. Eat to build and watch what happens. Now. The third thing that we're going to talk about has to do with nutrients. Too much emphasis has been placed here, I'm going to be quite honest. So you need key, you need appropriate amounts of key nutrients for bone strength. Calcium, vitamin D and magnesium. Those are important for bone strength and they are a majority of people, osteopenia, osteoporosis are deficient in those key nutrients. However, by themselves they do not cause osteopenia and osteoporosis unless you're so deficient that you're in like disease state.
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D
Just supplementing isn't going to solve.
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B
No, no it won't. So that's why I want to go with that because people are like, oh, stronger bones. I got to.
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C
And it's less about Those individual nutrients, it's more that you're so low on calories. That happens.
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B
That's part of it.
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C
That's part of it.
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B
But also, these nutrients definitely aren't part of the building strengthening bone. But here's what happens. I'm sedentary. I don't do any strength training. Oh, I know. I'll just take vitamin D and calcium. It's not gonna do much. You still need the signal. Your body still needs a reason to strengthen its bones. You need to give it adequate calories and macronutrients like protein and essential fats to help build the bone. And then you need the micronutrients to make that happen. There's a correlation, but by themselves, I'm gonna tell you right now, it will not fix your problem.
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C
Well, it's the same way. I think you've already, you've tied it together already nicely with bone and muscle. It will be like somebody who has lost muscle and they no longer want to lose any more muscle. And they, they go, oh, I was under eating protein, so I'm just gonna eat more protein.
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B
But you don't do.
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C
But there's no strength training. There's no.
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B
You'll do very little.
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C
Yeah, you'll do very little. You might slow down where you're at currently and not lose any more muscle than you have. So you might slow down the process of the losing bone. But if you don't give it a reason to grow and build, then the likelihood that you're going to reverse it or completely stop it is very unlikely.
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B
That's right. But yes, yes, if you're strength training and you're eating properly, you want to make sure you're taking or you have adequate vitamin D, calcium, magnesium, which are very important. And they're commonly. It's common to have people that have optimal amounts of. Yeah. Of those, especially vitamin D. And then lastly, it's very important be consistent. Building muscle takes a long time. Building bone takes a longer time. It takes a long time. In the data where people are straining. Well, here's what you see. You see, you see the bone loss stop or it slows down and stops. And then a year later, we see an increase about 1%, sometimes 2%. So it takes a while. Yeah, so building muscle takes a while.
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C
We just had a recent client that was suffering this and she shared her. Her test. I think it was 1 or 2% in the year. And I don't think, I don't think she realized how good it was. I think it was a little bit more Than that. It was like, it was like a phenomenal. But sounded so low to her. Like, oh my God, I only, I only moved this much percent and I was like, oh my God, that's in one year's time. That's huge.
- [22:54]
B
I, I just want to say this. Like, you know, I, When I had clients come to me with certain situations that they were going to work on, some of them would be more difficult for me than others. This one right here, I felt so confident. I felt so somebody comes to me. Osteopenia, osteoporosis. But I'm willing to come in and work out with you twice a week and I'll eat the way you tell me. Fixed. Nope. Listen, it's gonna be fixed.
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D
It does resolve.
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C
It's just a matter of time.
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B
It's just a matter of time.
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D
Consistency wise is the big thing.
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B
I've had so many doctors call me and say, what are you doing with Linda? I can't believe her bone mass has increased. Like, what are you guys doing? I'm like, we're lifting weights. How many days a week? Once a week. What are you doing? Three exercises. And the doctor's just like, what?
- [23:36]
D
I know.
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B
Like, no, we're just getting stronger. And then I'd share the numbers. Like, Linda could barely do a wall push up. Now she's doing push ups off her knees on the ground. Like, it's just, she's just stronger and it works. So it's, it works everybody. But you got to stay consistent because, you know, if, let's say you gain five pounds of muscle in six, six months, which would be phenomenal, it's much slower to build bones. You just got to be very, very consistent with what you're doing anyway. Kind of along those lines with nutrients and stuff. Dude, I gotta just brag on one of these supplements from ROW Nutrition. Okay, so, so row for people listening, they make the supplement company, but they, they have this kind of medical grade delivery technology called liposomal. So it makes everything much more bioavailable and easy to digest and all that stuff. Anyway, they have a curcumin resveratrol product which is really good for inflammation. And you guys know I've been doing jiu jitsu.
- [24:31]
C
Yeah.
- [24:32]
B
And you know, inflammation in my joints and connective tissue because I'm not used to moving that way. And so I started taking this twice a day about four days ago.
- [24:41]
E
Whoa.
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B
What a difference.
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C
Do you take it proactively like before you do it, or does it every day? Every day. And something like that does it matter the timing of it in relation to the training and the possible inflammation or is it just. Just ipping it in your stomach?
- [24:55]
B
Probably, I'm a guest. It's probably better to have it around. But I just using it daily because what it does is it helps produce a natural inflammatory. Excuse me, a healthy natural inflammatory process. So it's not like blocking inflammation.
- [25:09]
C
Is it like an adaptogen then? Like turning it down?
- [25:11]
B
No, curcumin just has this kind of really nice anti inflammatory effects. But it's not like a nsaid where it's gonna hammer your inflammation down so much that you're gonna stop recovery and stuff like that, so. And it's healthy. It's got lots of other properties for longevity. And I've known this, I've used it before. But you know curcumin especially because it's liposomal, it's a fat soluble compound.
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C
Doug just pulled it up right now. It works on the more electrode level by blocking NFkB, a molecule that travels into the nuclei cells and turns on. That sounds very adaptogen.
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B
Like not quite.
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C
And it doesn't say it's an adaptogen, but that's kind of how an adaptogen works, right?
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B
Yeah, adaptogens are interesting. Adaptogens help make your body resistance resilient to stress. I guess you could say that's part of what an adaptogen does. But this is really just a anti inflammatory. So here's the thing with curcumin, which is one of the comp. It's one of the active compounds in turmeric. You got to take it with a fat. You don't absorb much and that's just with the fat. So liposomes are little fats.
- [26:10]
D
Yeah.
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B
And so I've been using this.
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D
A lot of people aren't doing that, bro.
- [26:13]
B
I've used curcumin in the past when I did jiu jitsu before. That's why when I saw the bottle. Yeah, let me try to. This is the best one I've ever used.
- [26:19]
E
Oh, wow.
- [26:19]
B
Yeah, I'm like four or five days in and like dramatic difference.
- [26:22]
C
I wonder if it's the delivery system.
- [26:23]
B
It's gotta be.
- [26:24]
C
Why you notice the biggest things.
- [26:25]
B
Gotta be, dude. Oh yeah, it feels great.
- [26:26]
C
Oh, that's cool.
- [26:27]
B
I was gonna ask you, Adam, about. You have this like green energy.
- [26:32]
C
Oh, bro, I.
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B
What's going on?
- [26:36]
D
A rabbit hole.
- [26:36]
C
You guys ready for this or what?
- [26:37]
B
So I am, bro.
- [26:38]
C
I. I think I've mentioned it a little bit on the podcast. I don't know. I definitely have mentioned to you guys off air. I think we talked about it. I have solar and I have. Have quite a few panels. I think I have 27 panels, so I have plenty.
- [26:53]
B
That's a lot.
- [26:54]
C
And it's. And it's paid off. Solar. Right. So I don't have any extra, like, bill or. Yeah. So, you know, thanks for considering the
- [27:01]
D
environment, by the way.
- [27:02]
C
Well, it's. I can't. I can't take the credit. I bought the house with it already on.
- [27:06]
F
Right.
- [27:06]
C
And done so. But was like, super excited about that. Like, oh, yeah, I'm going to save a bunch on my electricity bill. Right. And, you know, Katrina and I are coming up on a little like a year and a half or so since we've lived in this house of like. So I've seen a full cycle of seasons and everything like that. And I chalked the first year up of. I did a lot of experimenting with, like, running stuff like crazy because I want to see, like, what's it look like. Yeah. If I don't. If I just don't. I run it all the time when I want, when I. And I heat the pole and all the things. And so, you know, you know, after I came, like, through a full year that I go, okay, well, this is my year of, like, trying to be. Manage it, be a little more responsive. And as I've been doing that for, like the last six months, I'm not seeming to make any sort of an impact. And so I'm getting really frustrated.
- [27:50]
B
Doesn't make a difference. Yeah.
- [27:51]
C
So it's like, I don't feel like I'm saving any money on having all these solar panels. These are like normal electricity bills like that I've always had, and they do it differently. So the way I get is like, my electricity bill comes in and it is actually very, very low or modest. Right.
- [28:06]
B
So there's a difference there.
- [28:08]
C
But that's because the way solar bills is that they have a true up, which they hit you every six months and they go, oh, this is what you used off the grid. So the way it works is while the sun is out and it's making electricity on your solar panels, you. You pull from that solar and you use it. So all day long, especially in the summertime, we have long days and I'm running AC and stuff like that. My. I pull from that solar. Now, for some reason, let's say I wasn't home or I didn't run, I didn't run it very much. Then any additional solar that I generate to the grid. They. They buy from me. They buy. Sounds great, right? Sounds awesome. PG&E buys this from me, and then. And then when it goes dark and I'm no longer using the solar, I now need to.
- [28:54]
B
Now you're pulling from the grid.
- [28:55]
C
Now I got to buy back from them, basically.
- [28:56]
B
Right?
- [28:57]
C
Okay. So I'm like. So I get how this kind of works. And so I'm like. So I should be making over. And I still should be. Why am I still not saving a lot? Well, so I do all this digging. I go through the contracts and read. I'm on YouTube like crazy. Finally I'm like, boy, is this a scam? And I have. Dude. Okay, so when. When. When PG&E.
- [29:18]
B
The sun's not real.
- [29:21]
A
When.
- [29:21]
C
And, And I apologize because I've only. I. I've only done digging for a day on this. So if I get the kill. Exactly, exactly. But you'll get the gist of what I figured out and the. And the overall math of this. So when I. When I go over and. And I provide more to the grid, PG buys it for 8 cents on the killer.
- [29:43]
B
Oh, no, don't tell me, bro.
- [29:44]
D
Listen to this.
- [29:45]
B
Sell it hella cheap to them and buy it back expensive. Oh, my God.
- [29:48]
C
I sell it to them for $0.08 cents, okay, during. During whatever, overage.
- [29:52]
B
Don't tell me, bro.
- [29:53]
C
And then when it. When the night comes and I need it. Yeah, I buy it back for 48 cents.
- [30:00]
D
How did they work that out?
- [30:02]
B
Wow, dude.
- [30:02]
C
Okay.
- [30:03]
G
What?
- [30:04]
C
48 cents? And there's no Carry a little bit of a markup. There's no carryover. So like in the summer when I'm pumping tons of extra because sun's up all night. And. And it's not just myself, by the way, because it goes to the grid.
- [30:16]
H
So the.
- [30:16]
C
They sell it back to you.
- [30:17]
B
So hold on, So I make sense. And they sell it to Everybody else for 48. So you're making them hella money.
- [30:22]
F
Yes.
- [30:22]
D
Yeah, they're making them money.
- [30:24]
C
A ton. Yeah, a ton. So. And by the way too, I pay an extra monthly fee every month just to. For them to have a special meter for my solar thing.
- [30:34]
B
And on top of it, you got to pay.
- [30:35]
C
So I have a guaranteed fee on top of that that I have already and a contract. And then, then our city that we live in has an additional thing that charges me for being green energy, which is a month.
- [30:46]
B
They charge you for that? Yes.
- [30:48]
C
Yes. Dude, people are angry, bro. It's like 100 bucks. And by the way, it's like 100 bucks.
- [30:54]
B
100 bucks a month.
- [30:54]
C
The city is charging me. The, the meter thing has cost me another 25 bucks.
- [30:58]
B
You're getting charged 125 bucks to do something that everybody says is good for everybody.
- [31:03]
C
That's right. And that they. They get to go profit six times off. Off of me.
- [31:07]
B
On.
- [31:07]
C
And then sell me back mine at the. At the going rate.
- [31:11]
B
So really, what this is.
- [31:12]
C
It is the biggest scam. And then again, like I was starting to say, let's say. Let's say I took the month.
- [31:18]
B
Hey, Justin. They pissed off the wrong guy.
- [31:20]
D
Oh, dude, for real.
- [31:23]
B
He'll do the best.
- [31:24]
D
I wanted to see your reaction once you saw it was 48.
- [31:26]
C
Oh, bro. I bought Chuck my computer. I. I came down storming downstairs. Katrina. Because I'm like, I'm. I was ready to hire Katrina.
- [31:35]
B
That's a racket.
- [31:36]
C
I was. I was getting ready. So what we were. Why I was doing this, like, let me take one more step because, you know, this was starting to cause rift between me and my wife. I'm like getting upset at my wife. Like, oh, and then, by the way, too, they. They PG need tells you that you should try and do your laundry on these off hours and peak hours. You guys want to know the difference of peak hours and off hours is 4 cents.
- [31:57]
B
Oh, my God.
- [31:58]
C
So if I do my laundry at midnight or one of the more weird hours, I say 4 cents. 4 cents. Instead of it being 48 cents. It's.
- [32:08]
B
It's 40.
- [32:08]
C
It's 44 cents. So you're not saving. I mean, you know what? Like, rearrange your whole life. Can I communicate to the. To the. To the. Running the AC at this time and doing your laundry this time also, you could save a dollar. So let me get done.
- [32:22]
B
Let me try. Let me try selling this or communicating. It makes me angry from PGD's perspective. So they're in the meeting right now. Right. Listen, you're right. The thing right now is green. Yeah. Everybody wants to go green. And this is. We're going to sell this, right? Because that's good. Right? Everybody thinks to go green so we could save the Earth because that's what we need to do. So here's what we're going to do. Yeah. We're going to convince everybody to get solar panels. And really what it's going to do
- [32:49]
D
is give us more energy for cost.
- [32:52]
B
We're going to get a 40. We're going to get a huge margin on the energy everybody else produces. Then. Then we're gonna, because we're gonna sell it back to them.
- [33:00]
E
Yeah.
- [33:01]
B
You guys, listen. Everyone's gonna do this, you know, and then, and then everybody in the, in the, in the, in the meetings and say, well, how are we gonna, how are we gonna get people to fall for that? Yeah, it's good because it's green because of polar bears. And that's how we're gonna sell it, you guys.
- [33:13]
C
Oh, you should see, what you're saying is so spot on. And they, they have little cartoon ads that are exactly what you're describing right now. If you go to the PG website and learn if you're. So let's say you're someone who's interested.
- [33:26]
B
This is so California.
- [33:27]
C
If you're interested in getting solar, you know, because maybe you are an environment.
- [33:31]
B
By the way, how much you're an
- [33:32]
C
environment person or you're a person who wants to save money. Either one. But you're. You're inquiring and see what a PG and you want. These are the, these, they're little, they're little cartoon things of what. What you're doing for the world and what, how you're going to save all
- [33:44]
B
this money because we're dumb.
- [33:45]
C
It is so. It is such a racket. And look it, I.
- [33:50]
B
How many people do what you did and actually figure it out?
- [33:52]
C
Oh, and not many. Because. Because I'm sure that it's confusing too, because I'm in a contract too, by the way, that binds me and all the way that I have to do this. Because here's the other thing I'm trying to find out. I'm trying to find the loopholes now. So now I'm looking for. Can I try and hijack my own energy instead of sending it back to the grid and stored in a battery. In a battery at my house so I can. So I can decide when I want to pull from my own energy that I'm overproducing and use it at my will. Now I think I'm actually in a contract that does not allow me to do that. And I. And I sign that when I get those.
- [34:27]
B
The energy you're collecting for the solar panels that you own.
- [34:30]
D
Yes.
- [34:31]
B
On the roof of the house that you own, where the sun is shining on you. You got. You can't do that. Yeah.
- [34:38]
D
You don't actually own it.
- [34:39]
B
Yeah.
- [34:40]
E
Wow.
- [34:40]
B
Dude, do you guys want to know something crazy crazier than that? Yes. They added a tiny tax on tea and it caused the American Revolution. Right. Now we got stuff like that.
- [34:51]
C
Yeah.
- [34:51]
B
And people have just like whatever.
- [34:52]
D
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
- [34:54]
B
That is. That's not even. That's.
- [34:55]
C
Oh, it's close.
- [34:57]
D
And on my mind it is so.
- [34:59]
C
And okay, so I'm. I could not imagine if I actually had the house first and then I went out and how much those cost? 30, $40,000. Could you imagine if you spent 30 to $40,000 to give.
- [35:14]
B
To give huge margins, Jeannie.
- [35:16]
C
And you could. Doug, Google this right now, on average, what does solar save you on your electricity bill? 100 to $300 on average.
- [35:24]
B
Yeah.
- [35:24]
C
That's nobody. Not in the Bay Area. Does anyone have $100? 300. I mean, most electric. If you have a house that's larger than 2,000 square feet, your electricity bill, on average, $800.
- [35:35]
B
Oh, wow, there's a solar calculator there. What a racket.
- [35:40]
C
Such a racket.
- [35:41]
B
And then, not to mention, I'm just going to add more. Let's just throw a little look at that.
- [35:44]
C
100 to $200 per month.
- [35:45]
B
Yeah.
- [35:46]
C
Is what. Is what you.
- [35:47]
B
So it would take you 30 years pay off your solar panels, bro. And that's if they could decide like, you know, we are change the price
- [35:59]
C
and which they have done. So part of what I dictate how
- [36:02]
B
much they pay to buy it back.
- [36:04]
C
What I've communicated right now has evolved and changed the people who paid astronomical prices to. To have their solar got grandfathered into a little bit better deal and stuff like that. So as it's evolved and changed, they continue to screw you more. So because they've got so many people bought into, this is the way to go. Like the tax benefits and the. What the rate that they get is. It's continuing to change. And they. That fee that I was talking about that was added this year, January. So that was. That's a new fee that decided to slide in there. Oh, no one's gonna see an extra 25 bucks. We're gonna charge everybody for just having it.
- [36:35]
B
So California.
- [36:36]
D
Oh, now let's get back into insurance.
- [36:38]
B
No, you know, you know what the problem with that is, is that, you know, PG and E is a. Is a monopoly.
- [36:44]
C
That's why it's. So that's.
- [36:45]
B
The regulations make it impossible to compete.
- [36:47]
D
Yeah.
- [36:48]
B
So although it's a private company, it's really not. It's really just the cause. What would be great is if there were competing energy.
- [36:54]
C
That's right.
- [36:54]
B
Who said, hey, you know what, we'll pay you 20.
- [36:56]
C
You know, that's. You know, I actually you.
- [36:58]
B
My energy.
- [36:59]
C
I was naive. I thought solar was representing like a competitor to your traditional PG&E way of getting energy.
- [37:07]
D
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:08]
C
That's what I actually thought. I thought.
- [37:09]
B
Silly peasant.
- [37:10]
C
I totally, I believe I, I thought when solar was coming on, it was like, hey, this is better for the environment. This is also an alternative to then going the traditional.
- [37:20]
B
But let me ask you this though. Don't you feel good inside?
- [37:24]
D
Yeah.
- [37:25]
B
That people walk by your house and you look like you.
- [37:28]
C
I mean, I just, I just kept getting. And my poor wife, right? I'm like trying to, I'm trying to like, I'm over here calling her when I see her open the door for two seconds, I'm over here like, tell her.
- [37:38]
B
Are you. What are you doing doing laundry right now? You're supposed to do laundry from this
- [37:41]
E
time to this time.
- [37:41]
C
Say like all the same four cents, you know what I'm saying?
- [37:45]
D
Dude, the latest thing we're fighting is all these like, like areas they're zoning off for lithium battery, like dumps.
- [37:54]
B
Oh yeah, they're.
- [37:55]
D
They're trying to put them everywhere, dude. And like, this is all in like areas along the coast where it's really nice and like there's farmland all over. And I told you guys recently about that one that exploded. And this happens quite a bit. And then it gets toxic chemicals just everywhere.
- [38:10]
C
What's the logic of, of putting lithium bearing lithium batteries near the ocean? Is it because it's gonna. They hope it's gonna drift out and. No.
- [38:18]
B
God, no. I think they're just. There's just no logic.
- [38:20]
D
This is just like politicians lining their pockets did. Yeah, that's it.
- [38:24]
B
Yeah.
- [38:25]
D
Summed up just.
- [38:26]
B
Have you looked into recycling here in the Bay Area?
- [38:28]
C
Oh, I know, I know. That's been dead for a long time. I know. We haven't been recycling.
- [38:32]
B
That's it. That's what they. That's the only thing. They actually recycle. Everything else goes in the same because
- [38:37]
D
everything's lined with plastic and they're like, oh, I can't use.
- [38:39]
B
No, they throw everything in the same garbage. Because we used to sell our like cardboard and stuff to China. They stopped buying it.
- [38:45]
D
Yeah, they didn't buy it.
- [38:46]
B
So we have all these bins in most places. Have this been California? You have like recycling bin. You know, this. Make sure you separate. Everything goes on the same place. The only thing that they recycle is aluminum. Yeah, that's it. Everything else is garbage. It's the same thing.
- [38:58]
C
It's so crazy that you do all that.
- [39:01]
B
You feel good, you know, hey, there's garbage cans. Where was it? I think it was in Santa Cruz. You know, the garbage cans are like big and it's like recycling and then waste and there's two holes. Yeah. I looked inside. It was the same bag. It was just two holes. Yeah.
- [39:15]
D
Just feed it into the same baby.
- [39:17]
B
It was just two holes. I feel good.
- [39:18]
C
I'm putting my camera.
- [39:19]
E
Yeah, dude.
- [39:19]
B
I'm like, why did I say bag?
- [39:22]
D
Sums it up right there. Two holes, same place.
- [39:26]
C
Yeah, right there. I could. I was just so blown away as I continued to pull the thread.
- [39:33]
B
Have you guys watching.
- [39:34]
D
That's crazy. I didn't know anything.
- [39:36]
C
Is that not wild or what was the last.
- [39:38]
D
When was the last.
- [39:38]
C
Yeah.
- [39:39]
B
Another thing, not since we're on this topic. You remember Inconvenient Truth with Al Gore? Was it Al Gore?
- [39:45]
G
Yeah.
- [39:46]
B
You guys remember that, that documentary?
- [39:47]
C
I barely remember.
- [39:48]
B
So that documentary kicked off this huge, like, kind of green movement.
- [39:54]
D
Yeah.
- [39:55]
B
With the fear of climate change and, oh, my God, this and that. And people get so up in arms about this topic. But I just implore people. Oh, to watch Inconvenient. An Inconvenient Truth.
- [40:07]
D
Now go. Look at those things you brought up.
- [40:09]
B
They made predictions in there. Yeah. That we. By now we would have told.
- [40:13]
D
You should have seen it by now.
- [40:15]
B
So off.
- [40:15]
C
Yeah.
- [40:16]
B
So off. The fear in there that they stirred up was insane. 2006.
- [40:22]
E
Yeah.
- [40:22]
B
No, no, no, no. Near term timelines were overstated or scientifically oversimplified. You know what's funny about AI AI is.
- [40:30]
C
Yeah.
- [40:30]
A
It's not exactly.
- [40:33]
B
No, you got to see. Maybe Google. Doug, what were the predictions made in Canadian? Well, I remember.
- [40:40]
C
I mean, we were already supposed to be dead. It was like crazy.
- [40:43]
B
Those coasts wouldn't exist.
- [40:44]
C
Yeah. It's crazy stuff. Yeah. I remember it was like over the top.
- [40:48]
B
Somebody told me this once too, and it made a lot of sense. He said, here's how you know if they're telling the truth or not.
- [40:55]
C
Where they buy. Where all the rich people buy.
- [40:57]
B
Are politicians still buying, you know, beachfront properties and our banks still financing them. Because banks are really good. Like some of the best. Oh, yeah. Data collected ever is by banks and insurance companies. They've got it down. They know when, how, what percentage they can charge or whatever banks won't fund.
- [41:16]
C
Dude, look how hard it was for us to get fire insurance in Tahoe.
- [41:19]
B
Because it was. Because.
- [41:20]
C
Because all it took was a couple fires over the last decade to happen more and statistically put them at a tiny bit. Fraction more of a Risk and now all of a sudden almost impossible to get insurance. It costs a crazy premium to do it. So you're right. Like if it was really even close to statistically true, you wouldn't be able
- [41:35]
B
to get a bank loan. You wouldn't be able to buy a property. The banks just say, no, we're going to lose money. And the banks, banks run everything. Right. So that's, that's how you.
- [41:42]
C
20 foot sea level rise.
- [41:44]
B
Yeah, but when did they say the 20 foot sea level rise was going to happen? I think it was like 20.
- [41:47]
C
We already passed it.
- [41:48]
B
15 or something.
- [41:49]
C
Yeah, yeah, we had already passed. I remember we'd already passed the date. And like none of that's, none of the, none of that stuff.
- [41:53]
D
All you need is Sarah McLaughlin and some polar bears and you know, like shrinking icebergs. And then you have a thing, by
- [42:02]
B
the way, with the, with this. What this points to isn't that, you know, that we shouldn't worry about the environment, we shouldn't worry about keeping. That's not what we're saying.
- [42:13]
C
Well, let's just be consistent.
- [42:14]
B
What you need to be, what you need to be careful for is when politicians start to generate lots of fear around something because they're doing it for their goals. Yeah. And so always I'm always skeptical, like,
- [42:26]
D
well, I'm a big nature person and I'm always looking out for like company dumping toxic shit.
- [42:31]
C
Well, what is one, what is one rocket trip up to space for the uber rich or one private jet across?
- [42:38]
B
Well, the private jet stuff's crazy.
- [42:40]
C
Yeah. Private jet to, to another country one time when it comes to carbon footprint, like, like that one trip is you could do solar your whole life and it won't, it wouldn't even.
- [42:50]
B
You could ride a horse your whole life and you wouldn't even cover it. That' that's why I used to love like Leonardo DiCaprio, like talking in different countries, you know about this. It's like private jet, yacht, private jet, yacht, private. I'm like, damn, bro, you just did more than a thousand people would do.
- [43:06]
C
That's why it's such a. So dumb.
- [43:08]
B
All right, I'm going to change subject here. Creatine. I love creatine. We're going to talk about creatine again. Have you seen the data on creatine? We've seen it with brain health, but have you seen it specifically with like, let me see, I pull it up here with brain, like injury. Have you seen this?
- [43:25]
D
Not for injury.
- [43:27]
B
It's like preventative or recovery yes, bro. People recover from concussions and brain injuries much faster when they're on creatine versus when they're not. Which is pretty incredible.
- [43:41]
D
We should have known that.
- [43:42]
B
Yeah.
- [43:44]
C
So this was anxiety recovery, build muscle longevity.
- [43:49]
B
I'll quote a rope done on rats. But we've seen this in humans.
- [43:52]
C
It's going to be in cereal in a couple of years. Just watch. I'm calling it.
- [43:55]
B
It's going.
- [43:56]
C
Actually, there might be creatine cereal already, so.
- [43:58]
B
So check this out. There was an open pilot study with children adolescents 1 to 18 and creatine. It improved the duration of post traumatic amnesia and intubation, the degree of disability and overall recovery. Improved cognitive function, self care, communication, locomotion and sociability. Reduced headaches, dizziness and fatigue. No adverse effects at all. There was a study on rats where they gave them like a brain injury. Essentially 36 to 50% reduced cortical damage.
- [44:29]
D
Wow.
- [44:30]
B
Because of creatine. And the process is. It attenuates secondary injury mechanisms. So mitochondrial dysfunction, lactate accumulation, oxidative damage. And it improves outcomes in hypoxia models relevant to brain trauma. So it's not a cure all. But if you're listening, you're a parent and your kid plays a contest.
- [44:50]
D
Any high contact sport. Yeah.
- [44:52]
B
Creating it's not just gonna prevent it.
- [44:55]
D
Yeah. Just keep it along.
- [44:56]
B
It'll help with their brain health. Isn't that cool? It's the best accidental thing I've ever done in my life. I took because I wanted to get jacked. I've been taking it non stops.
- [45:04]
C
I mean, what do you think about that prediction though? Creatine cereal?
- [45:06]
B
I think it's gonna be everywhere, dude.
- [45:08]
H
Sure.
- [45:08]
B
I think it's, you know, the way
- [45:10]
C
we way you predicted protein years back that that was going to be the next thing. And we saw it now we see it every protein. Doritos now the most comical one of all of them. That has to be the most comical one.
- [45:20]
B
It's a new level.
- [45:21]
C
Have you seen anyone more funny than that? The protein Doritos than protein Doritos.
- [45:25]
B
How much protein is in a protein?
- [45:26]
D
It's gonna be like protein.
- [45:27]
C
Look it up, Doug. I want to see. I actually haven't looked at the bag macros because I think that's hilarious.
- [45:32]
B
There's a protein shortage, you know, you guys, I told you guys about. So how much protein is in protein Doritos?
- [45:39]
A
10 grams per serving.
- [45:40]
C
Let me see what a serving is.
- [45:41]
B
Well, I guess that's more than one. It's probably a bag, Doug. It's probably a small bag or whatever.
- [45:47]
C
I'd be impressive. It's more than that.
- [45:49]
D
Yeah.
- [45:49]
C
Oh, is it two servings in there or three?
- [45:52]
E
It's one.
- [45:53]
C
I'm looking for the protein. It's right there. It's the nutrients. I can see it from here.
- [45:55]
A
Is this the right one, though? Is that for protein?
- [45:57]
B
Not sure. Yeah, well.
- [45:58]
D
Oh, great.
- [45:59]
C
I mean, it tells you the serving size. Like it looks at least.
- [46:01]
B
Yeah, I think it's for a small bag.
- [46:05]
D
Yeah.
- [46:05]
A
That's the wrong one. Yeah.
- [46:06]
B
Yeah. Why don't you go back, Doug, and put in protein Doritos macros. Okay. And then you can look at images and see for yourself. Nutrition facts.
- [46:17]
H
Here we are.
- [46:18]
B
And so I think what we're going to see. Therehere we go.
- [46:20]
A
So 150 calories, 10 grams of protein, 10 chips.
- [46:23]
B
What are they really?
- [46:24]
C
Slide up, slide up, slide up. It says serving per bat. You need to read that.
- [46:28]
G
Yeah.
- [46:28]
C
It says seven servings per gallon.
- [46:30]
B
That's a big bag.
- [46:31]
C
That can't be.
- [46:32]
A
10 chips.
- [46:33]
B
10 chips.
- [46:33]
A
10 chips.
- [46:34]
B
So 1 gram of protein per chip.
- [46:36]
C
No, that's not right.
- [46:37]
B
That's what it says. What's the ingredients? I wonder where they get.
- [46:41]
C
Yeah, but sal, that says seven servings. That would mean there's 70 grams of protein in that bag.
- [46:45]
B
It would be. It's the big bag. It's the big, big family bag is what they're talking about. Hey, all the meatheads listening right now.
- [46:52]
D
Yeah,
- [46:55]
B
70 grams.
- [46:55]
C
I would have done that. I would have done that too.
- [46:57]
B
18 year old man.
- [46:58]
A
Cheese.
- [46:58]
D
Cheese on there.
- [46:59]
B
Yeah. Dude, what are you eating over there? Chips. I wonder what the ingredients. It's probably pea protein. Or is it milk protein casings?
- [47:08]
A
Milk. Milk proteins.
- [47:09]
B
Oh, it's got to be. Yeah, because it's. It's nacho. Well, there you go, guys. Proteins and everything.
- [47:14]
D
Now Doritos.
- [47:15]
C
So 70 grams in the big. So what did you figure out the little bag, though? What's the little bag?
- [47:19]
B
I think probably one serving. It's 150 calories. It's probably one. Probably.
- [47:22]
H
Yeah.
- [47:23]
D
Yeah.
- [47:23]
B
Which isn't bad. I wonder what they taste like, if they taste good. You try them.
- [47:27]
D
Yeah, I don't think you guys are reading them right.
- [47:29]
E
Yeah.
- [47:29]
B
What's your favorite flavor experiment with that. Doritos. Are you cool?
- [47:32]
C
No, not you.
- [47:33]
D
I'm. Yeah. Nacho guy.
- [47:34]
B
You know what I tried?
- [47:35]
D
Oh, no, the taco. Have you ever tried that one? The roll?
- [47:38]
B
They're like rolled up.
- [47:39]
D
I don't know, but it's like a taco seasoning.
- [47:40]
B
Yeah, so there's one. They're like Doritos, but they're like little,
- [47:43]
C
like the Taco Bell seasoning ones.
- [47:44]
D
It's. Yeah, it's like. I don't know.
- [47:47]
A
All the bags that are coming up are the bigger bags.
- [47:49]
B
That's fine, Doug. Yeah, we'll.
- [47:54]
C
I was waiting for you to say I didn't do it because I always do it.
- [47:58]
B
Come on, bro. Who's gonna slide in there to give him a jab?
- [48:01]
C
Dude, she just caught Dougling.
- [48:07]
D
Dougal it.
- [48:08]
B
Could you.
- [48:08]
C
Dougal it first?
- [48:10]
B
We're gonna make that a thing now. Dude, he's so bad right now. He's gonna fight.
- [48:15]
C
That's it.
- [48:16]
A
You do this.
- [48:16]
B
Hey, speaking of. Speaking of retailers and stuff, do you know what I saw at bevmo? You know the store bevmo?
- [48:22]
D
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:23]
B
Do you know what they sell at the front? What? Zebotics.
- [48:26]
C
Oh, they're in there.
- [48:27]
B
They're in bevmo, finally.
- [48:28]
C
I know.
- [48:29]
D
That is such, like, an obvious, like. Yes, like that. You need to be there.
- [48:33]
C
Katrina. Katrina connected them to a couple retail places and restaurants, actually. I didn't tell you guys this. They reached back out to her. Yeah. And they. Well, I mean, we had been kind of trying to do that for a long time and encouraging them to do that, and this never happened.
- [48:50]
B
And.
- [48:50]
C
And I don't know if maybe it just. Maybe because people weren't aware of the brand yet, and maybe there's more brand awareness and so maybe.
- [48:57]
B
You know what it is?
- [48:57]
D
I think they had their sights on these other products they were developing, too. And I don't know, like, they weren't like, well, spreading it into all the bars.
- [49:05]
B
So I was. So I. So I go to BevMo, obviously, the 4th of July. So we're buying drinks for. For the party or whatever, and I see them, and next to them are other, you know, recovery type supplements for, you know, after you drink. Right. The day over, the day after. Do you want to feel better? And there was quite a few. There was like a couple, like, shot, like, drink shots you could take and some pills. So I think this market exists, and I think the reason why Zbotics has taken so long is because it's so different. So I'm wondering if retailers, like. Well, we already have a couple of those things. They don't sell that well. Yeah, yeah. For people listening, Zbotics is way different.
- [49:42]
D
It works. There's no denying it.
- [49:44]
C
It is a.
- [49:45]
B
It is a probiotic that's genetically modified to actually break down acetaldehyde so it's not like electrolytes. And, oh, here's this herb that helps with inflammation. It actually reduces this byproduct of alcohol consumption. It gets rid of it out of your gut so that it didn't cause all these issues. So my prediction with zbotics is what's been happening, it's going to be a slow grow because people are going to try it, and they're like, you have to try it.
- [50:10]
D
I know. Yeah. To become a. A fan.
- [50:13]
B
Because it works.
- [50:14]
C
Yeah. No, if you're somebody who has any sort of side effects, I feel like from drinking at all, it's one of those things that it's like, a must try because.
- [50:20]
B
Totally.
- [50:20]
H
Yeah.
- [50:20]
C
It's. It's changed my relationship with being able to drink, which has been awesome. It's been awesome. That I can actually enjoy just a glass.
- [50:26]
B
100.
- [50:27]
C
Feel like I always had to have the weekend covered and I, like, had
- [50:30]
B
like, oh, tomorrow I'll get to sleep.
- [50:31]
C
Yeah.
- [50:32]
D
So it's your next day.
- [50:34]
C
No, it's been super.
- [50:35]
B
I got a cool study for you, Justin, on explosive power. Let's see if I can find this. So I know you like this. No, not that kind of explosive. Good Lord, no. They did some brain stem on people, and they found. And I got to look up this. This. This study. So they did brain stem, and they stimulated parts of the brain that control, like, motor function. Just by doing that, they improved explosive power. So no additional exercise? No nothing else. It was just that. And it improved their. Yeah. Improve their power output. I can't find the study, but it makes sense. The central nervous system.
- [51:13]
D
Yeah. What did they do?
- [51:14]
B
Say again? They did some brain stem, maybe. Doug, you shouldn't.
- [51:16]
D
The stem, though, like, dog.
- [51:18]
B
Look up brain stimulation.
- [51:20]
D
And that just help the recruitment process, like, heightened it.
- [51:25]
B
That's right. Okay. That's right. Isn't that. That's wild.
- [51:28]
D
Yeah.
- [51:28]
B
You don't wonder about that?
- [51:30]
D
Okay. So I just immediately assume somebody's gonna try and develop a product out of this.
- [51:35]
B
Yeah, dude.
- [51:35]
H
Right.
- [51:36]
D
Like some kind of helmet or something you wear free.
- [51:39]
B
Isn't there non invasive brain stimulation?
- [51:41]
C
So non invasive brain stimulation. It looks different than, like, e stim stuff.
- [51:46]
B
It's not on the muscles. It's on the skull.
- [51:47]
C
Yeah, but is it. But even that. It's different, though, right? It's instead of, like. Isn't this, like, what Ben Greenflies do where you have to do, like, exercises where you have to, like. Oh, it's not like. No, it's literally, you're Changing brain waves.
- [51:57]
B
It's literally activating these.
- [51:58]
C
It's actually, it's actually pulsating.
- [52:00]
B
Yeah. Maybe Doug, just type in non invasive brain stimulation and click on images because I want to see what this looks like.
- [52:05]
C
Yeah, but so it is like an e ste bro.
- [52:08]
B
This is cool because you get a device like this, it actually works. Yeah, it's not going to compare to exercise and all that stuff everybody but it does something. Imagine right before a game. Well actually put this thing on for 15 minutes.
- [52:19]
D
Yes, exactly. I'm like some kind of like pre game like hat helmet thing that you wear.
- [52:25]
B
There it is. It uses magnets. Look at that.
- [52:27]
C
Imagine too how it could. Well that's kind of ridiculous though right there.
- [52:31]
B
No, I think they have.
- [52:32]
D
I think it's all going to look ridiculous until.
- [52:33]
B
Bro, there's going to be a commercial.
- [52:35]
C
Well, you know what I think of right away. We talked about this just recently. What's the number one reason for injury?
- [52:40]
B
Oh, so lack of sleep.
- [52:42]
C
Lack of sleep. Why, why does lack of sleep affect that? Yeah. CNS interrupts. So if I had a poor night to sleep and I'm a pro athlete and I'm getting ready to go play my sport away
- [52:53]
B
some brain stimulation be
- [52:55]
C
a really band aids to the really interesting to see how that could help mitigate that potential. Yeah, that, that's what comes to mind right away when I see that.
- [53:03]
B
That is really cool. I, I'm assuming that there's gonna be some commercial devices if there aren't already that you could kind of play with. But think about that like you're gonna go hit a pr, put on your whatever hat, turn it on.
- [53:14]
D
I wonder.
- [53:15]
B
Wait 15 minutes, go hit your PR
- [53:16]
D
because Halo, remember that product that it was like headphones kind of stemmed, you know, your brain but it wasn't the stem. It was a different part of the brain for Doug.
- [53:27]
B
Maybe look that up again and say products.
- [53:29]
C
The Warriors.
- [53:30]
B
I wonder if there's anything that the
- [53:31]
C
warriors were using Halo for a while there. I wonder if they still do or not. When it was first out it was,
- [53:35]
D
it was an interesting product. Yeah, I was wondering but again I haven't heard about it since and I don't know if it really took off.
- [53:41]
B
There you go. Looks like you could buy some. I don't know how effective that looks.
- [53:44]
C
Like the thing that, that Tom Bilyeu had us wear that one time.
- [53:47]
B
Oh, they're only 4, $5,000. Holy cow. Is that what that costs?
- [53:51]
D
No.
- [53:51]
B
1200, 1700, $5,000.
- [53:53]
C
Then all of a sudden there's a $300 one.
- [53:55]
B
Yeah. Well, if that plugs that go up
- [53:57]
D
your nose,
- [53:59]
C
this one might give you cancer. But it's only 349 you're gonna perform.
- [54:07]
B
So it produces. It uses external electrical currents, magnetic fields or ultrasound to safely modulate neural activity without surgery. These devices are utilized across both clinical settings like major depression, ocd.
- [54:19]
E
Yeah.
- [54:19]
B
And consumer.
- [54:20]
C
Oh, that's an interesting reason.
- [54:21]
B
Wellness. Yeah. Transcranial magnetic stimulation. That's the one that I was familiar with.
- [54:26]
D
Transcranial magnetic stimulus, which is quite.
- [54:29]
B
Wow. They're used to treat conditions like major depressive disorder, OCD and smoking addiction.
- [54:34]
E
Huh.
- [54:35]
B
Well, that's interesting.
- [54:36]
D
Yeah.
- [54:36]
B
We're gonna get some weird still.
- [54:38]
D
Yeah.
- [54:38]
B
In the next 20 years, they're finding
- [54:40]
D
so much, so much about the brain. It's just like there's so much that we don't know.
- [54:44]
C
By the way, whenever I see stuff like this too, and especially, I mean, the audience can't see what we're looking at. But it just. How. How accurate sci fi movies got. Some things.
- [54:52]
B
I know.
- [54:53]
D
Yeah.
- [54:53]
C
You know, saying like some of this stuff was like, that's why I'm so into it.
- [54:57]
D
I'm like, yeah, you know, what idea is that?
- [54:59]
C
Something you saw in a sci fi movie 30 years ago.
- [55:01]
B
Yeah. You know, it kind of looks like what. What's his name had in Back to the Future when he answers the door.
- [55:06]
D
Yes, yes, totally. It's a business. Big old, like, huge halo.
- [55:10]
G
Yeah.
- [55:10]
D
As it turns out.
- [55:11]
B
You know what movie trips me out because I know we're going to be able to do this at one point. I know it, but it's crazy. Do you guys remember one of my favorite movies when I was a kid was Total Recall.
- [55:21]
C
Yes.
- [55:22]
B
With Arnold.
- [55:22]
D
Yeah.
- [55:23]
B
And in that movie, if you haven't watched it, Total Recall, there's like this company that sells vacations.
- [55:29]
C
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [55:30]
B
And experiences. But it's cheaper because you don't actually have. You don't actually go on vacation. You sit in this machine and it
- [55:37]
D
gives you the memory, develop the memory of it.
- [55:39]
B
So literally injects the memory or whatever into your mind and then you're like, wow, that was a great. You know, but you sent. You spent, you know, way less because you sat.
- [55:46]
C
You know why they're gonna be able to do that? You know why we are not only going to be able to do that, but it will actually make it into production and we people will do it for sure. Because I watch the positive it has on like depression and stuff like that. Somebody, somebody, you Put in all of a sudden.
- [56:00]
B
So we, they, they. They've been able to, they think, erase memories and animals. So now it's like, hey, man, I had a traumatic childhood. We're gonna just make that go away.
- [56:09]
E
Yeah.
- [56:09]
B
Get in our machine.
- [56:10]
D
That's not going to be misused at all.
- [56:14]
B
That's. Yeah, yeah.
- [56:16]
C
Which was the other Men in Black? Pretty much.
- [56:18]
D
Yeah. The neuralizer.
- [56:19]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Men in Black version of that.
- [56:21]
B
That.
- [56:22]
D
Yeah.
- [56:22]
E
What.
- [56:22]
C
What move. When you think back, Total Recall, these sci fi movies, who had it most accurate? Maybe Star wars, bro.
- [56:28]
B
No, we haven't got there.
- [56:30]
C
What are you talking about, bro? Your boy Elon.
- [56:33]
B
You just.
- [56:33]
C
What are you talking about? Yeah, I mean, SpaceX, Star wars, with
- [56:39]
D
all the stuff with Palantir. I mean, I think that they pretty much nailed that. Who was predictive, like pre. Pre crime?
- [56:46]
C
Oh, like, oh, Minority. Minority Report.
- [56:48]
D
I think in the way that they use technology with like gesturing. That is the thing too. It hasn't really took off yet, but I think it will in the future. I think like there's gonna be a lot less physical. It'll be more gesturing. Yeah.
- [57:01]
C
I used to think Player One, but we really. You know what's crazy? We've. This. We were so heavy talking about this just two years ago or a year and a half ago, whatever it was, you know, this whole virtual reality people gonna be plugged in. Like, it really fell out of favor quick.
- [57:17]
B
Like it causes vertigo and.
- [57:20]
D
Yeah.
- [57:20]
B
And stuff.
- [57:21]
D
Yeah, yeah.
- [57:21]
C
Like Oculus and all. Every, Everyone got all excited about it. Like, man, it felt like we were like making really fast progress. It was. I felt like, oh, man, overnight we're gonna be in Player One.
- [57:30]
D
Where though. I mean, like, I, I got into it for a minute, but yeah, because you just. After a while, there's fatigue.
- [57:37]
B
The movie that I believe bespoke best to the future of AI was her. Have you guys seen her?
- [57:43]
C
Yeah.
- [57:44]
H
Yeah.
- [57:44]
B
I thought that was a pretty. Like I was kind of there already, though. We are.
- [57:49]
C
I mean, you can already. You already have these.
- [57:51]
B
But the reason. The part of it that made me. Made me go, oh, I could see this happening. Typically AI movies are like, oh, no. The AI takes over and destroys everyone. This AI was like, hey, listen, I want to go disappear into the Internet and just do my own thing. So I'm gonna take off now. And that's all they did.
- [58:04]
D
Well, like right now I just saw an interview with like Tony Robbins and he was talking about like his AI agent that he has, and his AI agent was notifying him and was like, hey, I would like to purchase this like robot vessel, like a robot dog. And in order to program it for myself so I could like, yeah, use it. And, and so he was like talking about this with this guy that was like predicting a lot of what AI was going to become. And so I guess that agent was part of that whole Multbot website where they, they socially interact and they have all these ideas. And so he actually the a. The agent bought it and purchased it themselves, didn't use any of like Tony's money from his bank account. Like purchased this dog, had it shipped his address and is already working on programming so it can.
- [58:58]
B
Well, that's not scary.
- [58:59]
D
I was like, whoa, that's already happening. Like, that's trippy.
- [59:03]
B
Yeah. We guys talking sci fi? The one movie that comes to mind, this isn't going to happen, but this one movie that comes to mind, in my opinion, one of the best sci fi movies ever made with one of the greatest twists ever. Planet of the Apes original. Oh yeah. One of the greatest twists of any movie ever. At the end where you're just like, what.
- [59:20]
E
Yeah.
- [59:20]
C
Is going on?
- [59:21]
D
What about soil and green soy greens? Yeah, that one got me.
- [59:30]
C
I don't know. Star wars, dude. I'm starting to feel Star wars right now with SpaceX and going that direction. All right, now you think Elon's gonna dominate off from the U.S. but what happens when it becomes like a country thing and it becomes all that? Then we got all these.
- [59:41]
B
I think satellites does a better job.
- [59:43]
D
Give me lightsaber, dude, and I'll be happy about that.
- [59:45]
C
Oh, you think Dune does a better job than. Than Star.
- [59:47]
B
You know why? Cuz Dune is so far in the future.
- [59:49]
D
Star wars ripped off of Dune. I hate to say it as a huge fan, but it totally did.
- [59:52]
C
Oh, wait, a Dune came first. Yeah, I did not know that.
- [59:56]
B
Uhhuh.
- [59:57]
C
Dune is older than Star Wars.
- [59:59]
B
Uhhuh. Yeah. Really? So.
- [60:01]
D
So foundation. Foundation in Dune. Now the nerds are going to go crazy with this, but yeah, it's. It's like you pulled a lot from those. Those.
- [60:10]
C
I did not know that the original Dune was before Star Wars.
- [60:13]
B
Yeah.
- [60:15]
C
How. How close, Justin, are they? 1960s.
- [60:17]
A
Holy crap.
- [60:18]
C
It was the original one's 1960s.
- [60:19]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [60:21]
D
Just some really wild ideas in there too. And like the Star wars totally bit off of that.
- [60:25]
C
I actually thought it was the other way around. I. I did not know that.
- [60:28]
B
Yeah, it's because Dune made a movie that sucked first.
- [60:31]
D
Well, well, George Lucas wanted to make like Flash Gordon, like he was really inspired by that. And then like try to get the rights for it and everything. And so anyway, he through his whole process had to like make other movies to then create Star Wars. But yeah, pulled a lot from all these different sci fi.
- [60:51]
B
So the first movie of Dune was 70s, I think, I think 80s.
- [60:54]
A
Yeah.
- [60:55]
C
So well if it was 80s and then Star wars was 70s, the movie star Wars. So the book Dune came first.
- [61:01]
B
That's right.
- [61:01]
C
Then Star Wars 84 was when. Oh, so that's why it feels like that. So I know.
- [61:06]
D
Yeah, the movie came out 1984.
- [61:08]
B
Dune sucked.
- [61:09]
D
Yeah, it was.
- [61:09]
A
Yeah.
- [61:10]
D
Terrible.
- [61:10]
B
It wasn't good.
- [61:11]
C
Yeah. But I mean even that though, that came after Star wars. So Star wars actually. So in other words, George Lucas probably red Dune.
- [61:16]
B
Yeah, of course.
- [61:17]
C
And then that inspired some of the storyline. I did not know that for sure.
- [61:20]
D
I didn't know that Joseph Campbell, I mean he was really pulled a lot from all those myths and stuff. Whatever. I still think it's like one of the best collab like you're gonna pull from ideas that already exist. So you put it together. It was one of the best.
- [61:36]
C
Yeah, I mean, I mean that's not taking anything away from Star Wars. I just, but I the. I just assumed that they were actually more original and so many people have taken from them. I didn't know that technically Dune was. Was first. That's interesting.
- [61:48]
B
Yep. Star wars sucks.
- [61:49]
E
Hey,
- [61:52]
D
cut that out.
- [61:54]
B
Sorry.
- [61:55]
C
Unacceptable.
- [61:55]
B
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. What is butcher box? So it's better me for a better you. And it's convenience. Look, Butcherbox delivers grass fed meat, heritage pork, grape free chicken, wild caught fish to your door at great prices. If you like to eat protein, if you want a better fatty acid profile like you get from grass fed meat. If you like to eat healthy and you like to eat healthy consistently, but you also like to save money. Butcherbox is the best. I've been with them for years. Every month I get my box with my favorite cuts of meat and that's how I meal prep my day. I got my meat, I cook it. Throw some carbs and some vegetables. I got myself a healthy diet. Go check them out. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump and on that link you get your choice of free ribeyes included for a year or free ground beef or chicken breasts in your box for Life for free. Plus $20 off butcherbox.com mindpump all right, here comes the show.
- [63:01]
A
Our first caller is Derek from California.
- [63:04]
B
Hey, welcome Back.
- [63:04]
D
Dude, how you doing, man?
- [63:06]
H
Hey guys, thank you for having me back on.
- [63:09]
B
You got it, dude. Give us an update.
- [63:11]
H
Yeah. When I last called, you guys advised me to eat 2,900 calories, get 7,000 steps a day, and do maps anabolic. Since I knew I was coming back on, I mean, sure that I followed everything you said. The hardest part for me actually was getting the steps in. There were definitely times when I had to do some late night walks just to get it in. But I made. I did it. I ended up gaining another five pounds, which seems kind of crazy because it had been hard for me to gain weight earlier. I think maybe it might have been the change in programming and also being consistent with getting my calories and protein. When I called last time, I was trying to get 3,400 calories, but when I wouldn't track, I think I actually ate a lot less and probably didn't get enough protein because I don't naturally want to eat that much. Also, according to my scale, my body percentage actually increased from 18 to 19. I did include some pictures this time. I don't know, maybe you can tell me if it looks like I have 19%. It could be the inaccurate smart scale which we talked about. My other thought though, is that I might be eating too much fat. I hadn't really been paying attention to that before, just calories and protein. But I looked at my fat intake before this call and I realized I'd been eating an average of 120 grams of fat per day. I do find it hard to get enough protein without getting too much fat and making sure that I'm eating enough calories overall. But aside from the fact that I still don't feel like I'm close to having abs, I'm actually very happy with how things are going. Oh yeah, I'm getting stronger and I suppose that's my main goal. We talked about this last time, but I feel overall really good and really healthy and I know that's the most important thing. I did have a couple lifting goals for this year. I wanted to be able to bench press my body weight and squat 225 and I already was able to do both of those and we're only halfway through the year, so it's been cool to see the progress there. But I mean, that's pretty much my update. I do have a few questions, but I don't know if you guys want.
- [65:18]
C
We're looking at your photos right now and it's super clear. Your chest, your arms, your shoulders, your Legs all got built. You built me.
- [65:26]
B
You built.
- [65:26]
D
For sure.
- [65:27]
B
It's been 60 days since you did this. Right. So 5 pounds on the scale, 1% body fat up, which tells me most of that was muscle, by the way, the scale. The. The margin of error is like 4%. Okay. How was your strength over the last 60 days? What changes, if any, did we see?
- [65:46]
H
Well, I mean, I. I just know I've been able to go up. It's been a little bit different because of, you know, doing maps, anabolic versus what I was doing before. So I'm not like, the programming is different. So I'm not. It's not exactly a one to one comparison. But, you know, I know that I've been able to gain strength, especially like in my squats and bench press.
- [66:07]
B
Good, good. If you had to estimate, how much weight would you say you've added to both of those?
- [66:13]
H
The bench press, like 30 pounds.
- [66:16]
B
Holy crap.
- [66:18]
H
Squat, maybe like 20. I don't know.
- [66:20]
B
Holy cow.
- [66:20]
C
Yeah.
- [66:20]
E
Yeah.
- [66:21]
C
No, he looks like it.
- [66:21]
B
That's a big deal. So you've gained a lot of muscle.
- [66:23]
C
Yeah.
- [66:24]
B
You've gained a lot of muscle in 60 days, being consistent with all that stuff. So what are your questions? What do you want to do?
- [66:33]
H
Well, I guess I'm not worried about my weight increasing, but I didn't know if there should be a cap on that. My body fat, I guess. As long as the body fat percentage doesn't keep going up, does it matter if it's just muscle or should it be. Once I get to a certain weight, I try to keep it that way.
- [66:55]
B
It matters at a certain point. But there's a couple things you could do. You're. So you're sitting at 2900 calories still.
- [67:02]
H
Yeah.
- [67:03]
B
You could stay at 2900 calories and keep strength, training properly. Keep going and you'll probably see some body comp changes.
- [67:10]
G
Yeah.
- [67:11]
B
Especially with the muscle gain.
- [67:12]
C
How's your appetite been?
- [67:15]
H
It's. It's good. I mean, I feel like eating 2900 is definitely easier than eating 3400, but I don't necessarily feel hungry after 2900. I just. I feel good, but if I eat less, then I'm still hungry.
- [67:28]
C
Okay, you're in a good place.
- [67:29]
B
Yeah. So I would say you could just stay at 2900, stay consistent, keep doing what you're doing, and you'll have some body comp changes. You could also cut your calories. You could bring them down to like 2300 and you'll see some fat loss. But and maybe to the tune of like 4%.
- [67:43]
C
I wouldn't do that just because you're, you're seeing such great strength gains.
- [67:46]
D
I don't think it's something I keep,
- [67:48]
C
I'd keep leaning into the building muscle. It's very clear you built chest and shoulders, arms, legs. I mean, you can see it in your before and after.
- [67:55]
B
I also want to point out something else that the, that this happens quite often where people track, but because they're not consistent with their tracking, their estimates are off. And this is super common. Like, this is like, everybody. So when you were eating 3,400 calories before, I don't think you were always averaging, like you said, 3400 calories because you went down 500 and gained 5 pounds on the scale. So you were probably on average lower than 2,900 calories or right around that, that the number that you're at now. So I just want to point that out because that happens to a lot of people. They're like, I'm eating this much, but this is happening. It's okay.
- [68:33]
C
Yeah.
- [68:33]
B
When we track consistently, what we find is actually a lot different. And the average person is off by 30, 40% with their numbers, and people who know what they're doing are typically off by 20%.
- [68:43]
C
I think you're in a really good place, calorie and training wise and step wise. I just kind of keep you there and let the programming do the rest. Because just running through the program and then switching to a new program is just going to show you continued strength gains and results. And over time, what'll happen is you'll end up building so much muscle, it speeds metabolism up and you'll get leaner.
- [69:02]
B
Yeah.
- [69:02]
C
So.
- [69:03]
B
And I'm not worried about your fat intake. You're hitting your protein. I'm not worried about fat intake unless you have like, you know, you get a blood test and your lipids are off. Sometimes that happens to some people, in which case we would look at the type of fat that you're consuming. But if your lipids are fine, 120 grams of fats, totally fine.
- [69:22]
G
Yeah. Okay.
- [69:23]
E
Yeah.
- [69:23]
H
And it's mostly, I mean, it's fat from, like, meat, like beef or, you
- [69:28]
C
know, I like it.
- [69:29]
B
For some people, that's totally fine. There's a, there's a, there is a percentage of people that, that can cause blood lipid numbers to be a bit off. And then we would switch where you get your fats from. But in my experience, most people, if they're exercising, eating a whole Food, diet, you know, otherwise healthy. It's not an issue.
- [69:44]
H
Okay.
- [69:45]
C
You said the 7,000 steps you said can be difficult for you sometimes I can't remember what you did for work. Are pretty sedentary throughout the day.
- [69:52]
D
Other.
- [69:52]
C
Outside of that.
- [69:53]
H
Yeah. Um, yeah, I think last time you asked me how many steps, I. I said 5,000. I know I. I was tracking, but I wasn't really paying that much attention to it. It's just on my watch. Um, I think it was less than that actually. When I look back, it was probably more like 35,4000.
- [70:09]
C
That's the average. That's the average person.
- [70:10]
B
Right. I mean, if we put you. What phase of. Of anabolic are you on? Your phase three.
- [70:15]
H
I just finished phase three.
- [70:16]
B
Okay, so you're done with the program?
- [70:18]
G
Yeah.
- [70:18]
B
All right. We could put you on another program.
- [70:20]
C
Put them on one of the splits.
- [70:21]
B
Yeah. And let's keep going.
- [70:22]
C
Ppl or upper lower.
- [70:24]
B
Are you. Are you okay working out four days a week instead of three?
- [70:28]
H
Yeah, that's what I was doing before. I've maps anabolic.
- [70:30]
B
All right, let's. You want to try upper lower. That's a four day split.
- [70:33]
C
I love that.
- [70:35]
H
Okay. Yeah, I was gonna ask about that too. Like where you think I should go from here?
- [70:39]
C
Keep your calories right where they're at. Follow upper lower. If you do anything different, try and try and keep your steps over 7,000. Shoot.
- [70:46]
D
Shoot.
- [70:47]
C
Just be. Be active walking. Try to make an effort on the weekends when you do have days off or being really conscious of is consistently staying up there. Trying to get to that kind of 10,000 mark would be a good goal because just that extra activity following a new program, holding the calories there, I think you'll lean out and continue to kind of build muscle.
- [71:05]
B
Totally.
- [71:05]
D
Yep.
- [71:06]
H
Okay, cool. Thank you. And then after. What did you say? Upper lower?
- [71:12]
B
Yep.
- [71:13]
H
Is it recommended? It's just like kind of keep.
- [71:16]
C
Probably go to symmetry. Has some unilateral. Has some unilateral work. Just since that's. Those are very bodybuilder and strength focused programs. Yeah, it'd be good for you. We always recommend once a year running through either a performance type of program maps performance, or running through a map symmetry, where we address kind of unilateral different planes of motion. I think that would be good for you. And then you could go back to those programs.
- [71:40]
H
Okay, thank you. I know sometimes on your podcast you guys talk about different variations or things to do. Is that something more for experienced lifters? Would you recommend just someone like Me sticking with a program for a while before trying new things.
- [71:57]
B
If you follow maps programs and you switch programs after you complete one and you inject something like symmetry or performance, you know, every six months or year, you're, you're fine. Yeah, you just follow our programs. You're set.
- [72:10]
D
It depends on, you want like if you want to just stay in a kind of an aesthetic focus and like that's what you'd like to do. That would be like the, the majority of what you'd go back and, and you know, and go through the programming wise. But we're just saying to interrupt that. Otherwise I, I see no problem with you trying like a variation of any of these different types of programs we have to offer. So you know, you could, you could even do old time strength. You could get crazy and, and you
- [72:37]
B
just follow our programs. Yeah, that's it.
- [72:38]
D
We have it all laid out. So. But yeah, if you, if you're somebody that wants to maintain a certain, if
- [72:43]
C
you're, yeah, if you're really focused on strength and aesthetics, staying in a maps at a box upper, lower type of split, especially if the three, four day routine kind of works really well for you, you can stay in that pretty indefinitely and just interrupt once a year. Run either symmetry or one performance, that's it. But you could cycle through those two programs if that's your main thing. If you like strength, I want to look good. That's the main thing. Then the, the symmetry and, or the performance will address any sort of imbalances and keep you to where you're not just become this stiff little bodybuilder where you can only move in one plane. That'll, that'll do you well. Take you a long way.
- [73:19]
H
All right, thank you.
- [73:20]
C
Yeah. Great job, dude. Great job. We're going to send up or lower to you, Derek. Right.
- [73:27]
H
All right, that sounds great.
- [73:28]
B
Hi, bro.
- [73:29]
H
All right, thank you.
- [73:30]
B
Thank you.
- [73:31]
E
Recordings.
- [73:33]
B
Yeah. So what's really good about this? And I like that this happened for the average person walking, watching, this happens a lot. And this is why oftentimes you'll hear fitness influencers communicate to this. Although I don't appreciate how they do it, I think it's valuable that they communicate this way. But what often happens is a client will say, here's my calories, here's my macros. I don't know what's going on.
- [73:57]
D
Yeah.
- [73:57]
B
And then when you actually track diligently, they're off.
- [74:01]
D
Yeah.
- [74:02]
B
And that's what happened majority of the time. Now influencers like to communicate to people how much they're lying and your metabolism can't slow down, you can't speed, they go too far. But this is the, this is often the case. This is the case with fitness fanatics who know what's in food. I estimate all the time. Then when I actually count, I'm off every time. So I think that's a, just a nice example of that.
- [74:23]
D
Yeah.
- [74:24]
C
No, and even in on the step to on activity, a lot of you look at your watch once or twice and you realize oh, I do 7,000. Like I must do that every day. And it's like, oh no, that was like a really active day. What is a really low day and an average day look like? And then when you look out the total average, you're like, oh, I was walking a lot less than what I thought I was. And so yeah, I know this is super common. This is also why I think there's tons of value and everybody going through at least a, a phase of their life, whether it's you know, a 60 day run at it or whatever where they track everything really just the education. Try to be dialed as much as you can. Yeah. Just, just to at least get an idea of your behaviors and, and become aware of that because of that exact reason is most people over underestimate on, on, on activity and food.
- [75:08]
A
Our next caller is Beth from Georgia.
- [75:10]
B
Hi Beth.
- [75:11]
C
How you doing Beth?
- [75:12]
E
Hey guys. How are you?
- [75:13]
B
All good. How can we help you?
- [75:16]
E
Well, I will just start by reading my email so I don't ramble. Okay, Beth, I've been listening to Mind Pump for at least four years every episode. I bought several of your programs. I really love them that it's been really nice to follow a great program versus coming up with my own stuff, which I did for many years. I feel stronger than ever. I've really maintained my weight and muscle mass. So thank you. I appreciate it. Here's a little more about me. I'm a 59 year old married mom of three grown boys and live to tell about it. As you guys can relate, I have struggled with some disordered eating in the past but happy to say I'm, I'm eating a lot. I'm probably have the healthiest relationship with food I've had in, in quite some time. I'm five three, about £107. My last DEXA scan said I was at like 20.5% body fat. A little different than those in body scans that they do in the office. The Dexes are way more accurate. I've been working out consistently for about 35 plus years. Very committed. I actually work for an NFL team, so my job can be pretty high stress. I travel with the team, so we have some long days, seven days a week. I can return from a crazy road trip at, you know, middle of the night or whatnot. But really, I have a couple questions. So I don't have any, like, specific goals right now, and I'm not sure what. What might make sense right now for me. Like, at 59, what. What would you guys recommend is a realistic goal for me at this age or stage in my life?
- [77:01]
B
All right, good question. So what would improve the quality of your life?
- [77:06]
E
Probably reducing stress to some extent. But.
- [77:10]
B
Okay.
- [77:10]
E
I don't know if you can see in my email. I exercise quite a bit every day.
- [77:15]
B
Okay. So when someone says they want to reduce stress, there's a couple. A couple directions we can go with that. One is to change the stress that you have. So a good example is like, I'm in an abusive relationship. I'll leave that relationship, and that stress is gone. Sometimes that can't happen because the stress is not necessarily bad. Like, it's a job, you enjoy it. It's just high demand. Or you got a lot of kids, or you just got a busy life, and so you're like, look, these aren't really stresses I can turn off because they're not bad. They're just stressed. They're a lot of work. It sounds like you're the second one.
- [77:53]
E
Yes.
- [77:54]
B
Is that correct?
- [77:54]
H
Yes.
- [77:54]
E
Agreed.
- [77:54]
B
Okay, so then the answer is to become more resilient. And so then the goal with exercise and nutrition is to increase the resilience of your body so that those stresses don't feel so stressful, so that they don't cause as much of what could feel like at times and be overwhelming stress or like, it's kind of burning me out type of deal. Does that make sense?
- [78:18]
E
Yes.
- [78:19]
B
Okay. For someone like, and this is different from person to person, so this could be very different advice for someone else. But someone like you, as consistent as you are with your exercise and your past with nutrition and all that stuff, it's. It's a kind of a simple way to increase your resilience, but it might be difficult for you to make these changes. So one of them is with your exercise and activity, I would reduce the amount of intense exercise that you do because it is another stress. Now, the challenge with that, and you just correct me if I'm wrong, Beth, is that for someone like you, you're like, but that's all stress relief, like working out hard is stress relief. Okay. But it's not contributing to resilience. So what we would want to do
- [79:04]
C
is stress on the body.
- [79:06]
B
It's a stress on the body still.
- [79:07]
C
Even if it helps with the mental stress from the work and all the things like that, it's still stressing about in the moment.
- [79:12]
B
You're like, man, this feels good. But it's actually reducing your resilience for the other kinds of stress that you have in your life because it still requires recovery and all that stuff. And so it would look like less of the intense workouts. And there's a few places I think we can make some changes. Power yoga is a good example. Yoga can be recuperative. Power yoga is not. Power yoga is typically a workout. So that's one way. The other way would be to look at your strength training and would be to switch from three full body workout days to something like a Maps 15 style workout program. So that would be the other option. Nutrition wise. This is going to be difficult. Beth, you need to gain weight. Yeah. You're sitting at too lean of a body fat.
- [80:04]
H
Yeah.
- [80:05]
C
So, and just so you know, for resiliency, that is.
- [80:08]
B
Yeah.
- [80:08]
E
Right.
- [80:09]
C
Not for look awesome abs in a bikini and get on stage. I mean you look, you're, you look amazing.
- [80:14]
E
I'm worried about that I'm doing that anytime soon at 59.
- [80:19]
C
Well, you look great. You look, you look ripped.
- [80:21]
B
And I would say that the 20%, although the DEXA says 20, the INBODY says 14. I can see the striations in your delts. You're very, very lean. And body fat percentage. Body fat does provide a certain level of resilience to both men and women. And so you're walking around at a body fat percentage that kind of redlines you. It's like you're maintaining a stage ready body fat percentage all the time. And that's okay for short periods of time, but all the time it reduces your resilience. It reduces resilience to things like illness, stress, how your body responds to hormones, all that stuff. And so I would, I would, you would need to gain weight and I'd like to see you gain like a few percent body fat. You won't look. You'd look great still. But by eating more and letting your body fat percentage go up and changing the intensity of workouts, you're just going to notice way more vibrance and energy and resilience from doing those things are there.
- [81:18]
E
What program do you think I've done? I really? Like Muscle Mommy. I've done anabolic. And I know you're saying maps 15. I do tend sometimes with my, like, travel and whatnot. Like, the season's getting ready to kick off here shortly, so it gets a little crazy.
- [81:33]
H
Yeah.
- [81:33]
E
The map 15. Like, getting in the gym every single day is challenging.
- [81:37]
B
Skip it.
- [81:38]
E
Combining the two days, you know, and
- [81:40]
C
going every other someone like you, Beth, I would put you on math 15 muscle mommy. And when you can't get to the gym, I'd say, so what?
- [81:48]
B
And then you just pick.
- [81:49]
C
I say, so what? Enjoy the workday and do what you do best at your job. You're active, you're healthy, you're fit. And if you've been listening for four years, you've heard us talk about the study of how much you have to lift in order to maintain versus to gain and build. You have built an amazing physique. You have built a tremendous amount of muscle. You are healthy. You are strong or plenty. You missing two to three workouts here or there ain't a big deal at all.
- [82:16]
B
Actually, what'll happen, Beth, is if you increase your calories with the intent of gaining a little bit of body fat. You go down to Maps 15 Muscle Mommy. Skip the workouts you can't make. Just pick right back up where you left off. You're going to get stronger. Yep. You're actually going to see progress is what's going to happen on top of feeling more resilient energy and all that stuff.
- [82:38]
E
All right. Are you shot, Beth?
- [82:41]
C
Are you. Are you already on hormone replacement?
- [82:45]
E
Yep.
- [82:45]
C
Okay.
- [82:46]
B
Yeah.
- [82:46]
C
Figured. I figured you.
- [82:47]
E
Awesome.
- [82:48]
C
Yes. Right?
- [82:49]
B
Yeah. So let's do this, Beth, because I would love to have you back on, because I know what's gonna happen if you do what we say. It's gonna blow your mind. Yeah.
- [82:57]
G
Okay.
- [82:57]
B
So do you know, by the way, how many calories you're eating a day and all that?
- [83:01]
E
I don't. I really only kind of track protein.
- [83:04]
B
That's fine. Nothing wrong with that.
- [83:06]
C
That's great.
- [83:06]
B
I'm gonna assume that you generally eat the same kind of stuff most days like most fitness people do. Okay, I do. Okay, so add an extra 300 calorie meal. So something that's, like, small, got some protein in. Could be a smoothie if you want, or it could be like another small meal. Add 300 calorie meal. Do maps 15 muscle mommy. I'd like to see you in 60 days. And I bet you're gonna come back and be like, I did not realize that this would Happen.
- [83:35]
D
Another way to give her maps 15 performance as well.
- [83:39]
E
I just feel like I have it.
- [83:40]
D
Oh, you do?
- [83:41]
E
I was gonna ask, like, what is the difference between, like, the maps 15 and performance?
- [83:46]
D
Just more emphasis on. On different planes of motion. Just because if you're doing this consistently and you're pretty dialed in already, you know, to. To expose your joints to. To all those different, like, ranges of motion and to, you know, bulletproof a lot of the shoulders, the hips, the ankles. And so a lot of that kind of takes care of itself instead of having to then focus on mobility to address any kind of pain and stiffness you might get from training as frequently as you do. So it's one of those things to preventively get ahead of it.
- [84:17]
E
Okay.
- [84:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So either one would be fine, but I'll send you 15 muscle mommy if you don't have it.
- [84:22]
E
Beth, I have that, too.
- [84:23]
B
Oh, good.
- [84:24]
C
Beth, what's your. What's your three most consistent meats that you eat? Are you a meat eater?
- [84:29]
E
Yeah. Yeah.
- [84:30]
D
What are your.
- [84:31]
C
What are your three.
- [84:31]
E
I would say chicken and beef.
- [84:34]
C
Okay.
- [84:34]
E
And fish.
- [84:36]
C
So. Okay, perfect. So another way to do what Sal's leaning towards with the 2,300cal is are you a chicken breast or chicken thigh girl?
- [84:45]
E
I'll do both.
- [84:46]
B
Yeah.
- [84:47]
E
So because y' all have kind of intro chicken thighs more.
- [84:49]
C
Yes. Yeah. I would push you there. I'd push you in the thighs. The beef. I'd get the higher fat beef. The. And fish. I'd go more salmon and things that are. So just. What? It's easier for someone who's already got a very consistent way of eating. Sometimes it's difficult to inject another meal for them. They find that difficult to be consistent is choose fattier cuts and. Or add olive oil or butter to those. Those meals.
- [85:12]
B
Yeah. So you just up. You're just up in the calories.
- [85:13]
C
So you're literally. You're literally doing kind of the same thing, but you're intentionally adding an extra 100 calories or so per meal in your meats, making them fattier cuts or cooking them in an olive oil or a butter. And it's an easy way to just bump those up without having to, like, go out of your way to get an extra meal. That's another way to do it.
- [85:33]
B
How? When you did, by the way, with your DEXA scan, do you remember what your bone density showed?
- [85:38]
E
I don't.
- [85:39]
B
Okay. I would just take a look at it. Just make sure it's okay.
- [85:42]
E
I'm going to do one again here when the season kicks off, I kind of do them at the beginning of each.
- [85:46]
B
Oh, good. But, yeah, like I said, if you eat more to kind of gain a little bit, and you follow less intense strength training, like a 15 program in 60 days, what I would bet is that you're going to come back and be like, I'm stronger. I feel better. And you might be shocked. Like, I did not realize my body would respond this way. And it will. It will.
- [86:07]
E
Awesome. One more quick question.
- [86:09]
B
Yeah, let's go.
- [86:11]
E
Okay. Rest periods between sets. Can you do, like, some AB work?
- [86:18]
H
No.
- [86:19]
C
No. You're not allowed to. You're not allowed to. You should be trying to rest for three minutes.
- [86:23]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [86:25]
C
Go, put. Push. Three minutes. Glad you asked that. I'm glad you asked that, because that probably tells me you like to keep it moving.
- [86:30]
B
You know, Beth, this. You're an avid. There's. This is an avatar of. Of a type of person that we've worked with many, many times. So I could. I would have guessed that you have trouble sitting still in between.
- [86:41]
F
Oh, yeah.
- [86:42]
E
A walking pad at work.
- [86:44]
H
Yeah.
- [86:44]
D
You're on the go.
- [86:45]
H
Yeah.
- [86:46]
C
So, yeah, we definitely should follow up, because I feel like I don't want to give too much to rip from you and then you. You bail on us. Because there's a lot of things that I would like to adjust over time with you because you.
- [86:56]
B
You.
- [86:57]
C
You're doing plenty of activity, and you need more rest and you need more calories. And I know that's a lot to ask.
- [87:04]
B
Just the first, you know, 60 days. You're a disciplined person. You can do it for 60 days. It's going to blow your mind. It's going to blow your mind.
- [87:09]
D
The big question is, what NFL team do you.
- [87:12]
C
Falcons.
- [87:13]
D
Oh, Falcons.
- [87:14]
C
How long have you been. Tell me what you do.
- [87:15]
D
That's.
- [87:15]
C
I'm curious.
- [87:16]
E
12 years. I'm actually the assistant to our CEO.
- [87:21]
H
Oh, wow.
- [87:22]
A
Cool.
- [87:22]
C
What a cool job.
- [87:24]
E
You know, master of. Or what is it they say? Master of none, Jack of all trades. Master of none. I do a little bit of everything.
- [87:32]
C
How fun has it been with the Falcons? The entire time has. Very cool. Very cool.
- [87:38]
E
Y' all need to become Falcons fans.
- [87:40]
A
Hey.
- [87:40]
D
When they're not playing the Niners.
- [87:43]
E
Okay, we'll pick you up on that.
- [87:45]
B
Awesome.
- [87:45]
C
Very cool.
- [87:46]
B
Beth, we'll see you in 60 days.
- [87:47]
C
Yeah, we'll fly with you. 60 days. All right, let's do it.
- [87:51]
B
Bye.
- [87:51]
E
Bye.
- [87:53]
G
Recording.
- [87:53]
A
Stop.
- [87:54]
B
We've done such a. I say we like media, right? Fitness media has done such a. A Terrible job of advertising what is actually a healthy body fat percentage. Because shredded looks cool.
- [88:07]
D
I know, but it.
- [88:08]
B
Shredded is almost never ideal.
- [88:10]
D
No.
- [88:11]
B
Regardless of vulnerable. No. And you talk about resilience, especially as you get older.
- [88:15]
C
I want to see the bone density test.
- [88:17]
B
So do I. Yeah.
- [88:18]
C
That's why I think, I'm glad you asked. And I hope she looks into that. And, and, and Beth, if, when you listen to this, that's a good goal. So whatever that comes back, get your bones strong. Let's get it, let's improve that. And the way you improve that will be by, by gaining weight, gaining muscle. And so if whatever the, whatever the bone density comes back, you can always, we can still improve it. So, and especially if it's low, if it's, if it's low, then it's, it's not a we should do, you need to do. But I think no matter what, that's a good goal.
- [88:48]
B
Totally. But, you know, we communicate like getting leaner because everybody's so over, over fat. But when you look at the data, especially as you get older, being too lean is really bad for, for longevity and health. And it does a lot of nasty things. And we just, especially fitness fanatics, like, I gotta shred it all the time.
- [89:04]
C
And like you said, I think there's, I think there's value in periods of time allowing yourself to look shredded either way. But you don't live there.
- [89:12]
H
No.
- [89:12]
B
And for a woman, most women, you're, you're off being fit. Your optimal body fat percentage is in the low to mid-20s.
- [89:19]
D
Yeah. 20s.
- [89:20]
B
Not, not 20. Or what I think by looking at her is. I think she's below 20. It doesn't matter to me what the scale says. When I can see striations on a woman's delts.
- [89:28]
C
Yeah.
- [89:29]
B
I'm like, that's, you're probably too lean, especially if you walk around like that all the time.
- [89:32]
H
Yeah.
- [89:33]
A
Our next caller is Liz from Ohio.
- [89:35]
B
Hi, Liz.
- [89:36]
C
How you doing, Liz?
- [89:36]
G
Hey, this is awesome, guys. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
- [89:39]
B
Thank you. How can we help you?
- [89:40]
D
Let's go.
- [89:41]
G
All right, I'm going to read my question. I've adapted it a little bit because a few things have changed since, since I submitted it, but generally it's the same. So today's my birthday, so that's 49 today.
- [89:53]
B
All right.
- [89:54]
G
And so I have a long history of being very cardio focused, but I've become a lot more focused on strength. In the past, like four years, I've done several MAPS programs and I'M a regular listener to the show. I lift at home, focusing on compound movements about four to five days per week, about 40 minutes or so each time. So I also aim for 8,000 steps per day. I consistently hit and exceed my protein goal of 1:35 per day and currently weigh 1:35 at 5:7. My calorie intake is around 2300, so last week I completed a six day bike trip across Ohio. In preparation, I rode with my biking friend about 20 to 40 miles once or twice a week. While continuing to strengthen train. I try to eat significantly more calories on those long ride days. 1100 or so, in addition to my usual 2300. Even though the trip is over, I still anticipate doing regular long bike rides throughout the summer into the fall. So I feel like this is like, you guys have been a great help to me. Um, I feel like I'm finally kind of managing my body well. I feel like I am getting stronger. The bike trip would probably be considered a cardio activity, but the. The strength that I've built. My legs just made a huge difference. We had to deal with some hills. I felt strong and capable. And then I also recently did my first pull up, which I've never been able to do in my life, so
- [91:15]
C
that was a good thing.
- [91:17]
G
So here's my question. I feel like I'm looking a little thin and I'm interested in putting on some weight and more muscle. Like it's crazy for me to even say those words. I've never had this problem before. So I listened to your podcast a while back about adding five pounds of muscle in 30 days, and I was kind of wondering what kinds of foods I should be adding and about what my calorie intake should be. I recently tried to go up to 2,500 calories per day with 150 grams of protein, but I really have a hard time eating that much food on most days. I also wonder if it makes any sense to drop my step count or at least activity level so that the calories are saved for muscle burning, for muscle building. I'm not really sure if I understand if that would work or if that makes sense. Again, that sounds like a crazy question to me. And then I don't want to stop the biking. I really enjoy that, so that's something I really want to have part of my life. So the whole thing about eating extra on those days, does that make sense so that I can keep from losing more weight?
- [92:21]
B
Liz, good job.
- [92:22]
C
Yeah, you're doing great.
- [92:23]
B
You're doing a Great job. So, so here's the one thing I would change because eating the extra calories on those ride days makes a lot of sense. It's actually great. That's a, that's a great strategy. The only thing I would change is this when you're doing the rides. So when you're going through a season where you're like, okay, I'm pre. I'm going to train for this ride that I'm going to do. This is where you add your one or two days a week of the long rides. You got to strength train way less on those.
- [92:47]
G
Okay.
- [92:47]
B
So don't maintain your current level of strength training and then just slap on top of it. Bike riding, that's a mistake a lot of people make back way off on the strength training while you're doing the writing. And the idea is to maintain strength while building endurance for the cycling. And you can do that with once a week of strength training. I know that sounds crazy, but what you'll find is your performance in the cycling will go up much faster.
- [93:13]
C
Another way to do it would be maps 15. And the days that you ride don't do any lifting. So you just skip Those days of maps 15.
- [93:19]
E
Yeah.
- [93:20]
G
So generally I would not. The days for the long rides, I would not do any strength training. Like the, the trip is over now. So like the long, the long, long rides will be done. So it's really more kind of a once a week, maybe once every other week thing at this point. So now that the ride, the big trip is over, I'd like to shift more into the focus on, on the strength training. I actually, the first program I did was Maps 15, so that's awesome.
- [93:44]
C
Nice.
- [93:44]
B
Yeah. So I would, I mean gaining weight is as simple as I'd back off a little on the volume of training and I'd increase your calories now. The calories, yeah. And I get that you're, you're full and satisfied. And so it's going to take a little because you are trying to force a little bit of a change in your body. There's going to be a little bit of a challenge there. A couple easy ways to do it. You can add something that's more palatable or you could try liquid calories, which is an easier way to add 300 a smoothie. A lot of people find that much easier to add to their daily intake. And I would go more like on a maps, maybe anabolic style program or even a PPL kind of program while doing that. But even if you didn't Change your strength training. Even if you kept it the way it was, if you went up 3 to 400 calories, I think you would start to see the.
- [94:35]
C
Yeah, I like around 15, I think think adding more volume with struggling to eat more calories would be not the way to go. I'm curious what your steps are at right now. Since you did ask that. You did ask the question about potentially reducing that.
- [94:46]
G
Yeah, so I, I try. I have actually cut it back since I. Since I sent the initial question in, but generally around 8,000 is what I try to get. So I usually do. And that's like, I'm not running or even doing. It's really just straight walks. I walk in the, in the morning, and that's something I enjoy. But I can cut that back.
- [95:06]
C
No, no, no, no. I went to. The reason why I asked was just to see if you had like an abnormal amount. Like if you. Because I didn't ask if you would have said, I get 20,000 and I have a walking desk. And I would go, okay, let's. Because that. We just got off a call like that, so.
- [95:19]
G
Oh, gotcha.
- [95:20]
C
So that, that's, that's sometimes common. Somebody is like going out of their way to get 20,000 steps, and then I'd say, oh, yeah, let's cut your steps way in half and that'll help. But if you're 8,000 and that's your lifestyle and you enjoy, I would never take that away from you. I think that's important. You keep that.
- [95:36]
B
And adding three to five, you know, 400 calories can be as easy as adding olive oil or butter.
- [95:42]
C
Higher fat meats.
- [95:43]
B
Yeah. Make your meat cuts fattier. Or an avocado and just do it consistently. I don't think you need to bump your protein. You're at 130 grams and your body weight's probably around there, I'm assuming.
- [95:54]
G
Yeah, I'm at 135.
- [95:55]
B
Yeah. You don't need to bump your protein. I mean, you could do that too.
- [95:58]
C
I mean, I love literally what he just said. Avocado, olive oil, butter, higher fat meats. So every meal that you normally have, think of those four things. Like, what would I. What would I normally do right here? Oh, I would normally have chicken breasts. I'm gonna go chicken thighs. Oh, what would I normally do? I'd have flamingon. I'm gonna go a ribeye right here. Oh, you know what, that sounds delightful.
- [96:14]
B
Right.
- [96:14]
C
I'm just gonna add a half avocado or an avocado to that meal. Like that, to me, that's just an easy way to get that extra 3, 400 calories is. But every meal that you already kind of normally think of those four things, which one of those complements that meal?
- [96:27]
B
Well, and then when you get back to the cycling, when that gets back in your routine, you're just doing one full body workout a week.
- [96:33]
G
You know, even if I'm only cycling once a week.
- [96:36]
B
Yep, yep. You can even do max 15.
- [96:38]
G
Seems like nothing.
- [96:39]
B
No, it does seem like nothing. But you're going to put all your energy and performance into the cycling.
- [96:44]
D
Yeah.
- [96:45]
G
Okay.
- [96:45]
B
And that once a week is going to preserve muscle.
- [96:47]
E
Yeah.
- [96:48]
B
So the mistake people make when they're training for something, they're like, okay, I need more stamina for this particular event. I'm also going to build strength at the same time. Now you're burning the candle at both ends. So what you want to do is say, okay, I've built all the strength. I want to keep it while I build endurance. And once a week is enough to. Not just enough. That's ideal. To maintain as much strength as possible while you're pushing endurance and stamina.
- [97:17]
G
Okay.
- [97:17]
C
So.
- [97:18]
G
So now that this trip is over, and I do think I am in a position to kind of shift over and not, you know, make the bike rides a little more casual, not so long, that kind of thing. I would like to focus a little bit more on strength with kind of doing that, you know, so make. Make the focus strength and the biking and stamina kind of.
- [97:37]
C
I would stick with. I would stick with the Maps 15 protocol until you prove to yourself that eating the extra calories is doing good and you start to see yourself go up in strength. And then I would maybe move. Move to what Sal was suggesting earlier, which is like a split like you
- [97:49]
B
talked about, or maps. Muscle Mommy, do you have that program?
- [97:51]
G
I don't know.
- [97:52]
B
I like that program for you. If right now.
- [97:54]
G
How many days a week is that? One.
- [97:55]
B
Three.
- [97:56]
G
Okay.
- [97:57]
B
If you're not doing any crazy cycling right now, you could go to Muscle Mommy and bump your calories, and you'll see some. You'll see some strength gains and muscle gains.
- [98:03]
G
Yeah, I'd be curious about that. I was curious about the new one, too, because it. The upper, lower, because that's sort of. That's similar to kind of what I'm already doing four days a week roughly and not quite as long. Seems to fit into my lifestyle.
- [98:17]
B
It's going to be more volume than what you're probably doing. But I think Muscle Mommy would Be more appropriate.
- [98:22]
E
Okay.
- [98:23]
B
Yeah.
- [98:23]
E
Yeah.
- [98:23]
B
And keep this in mind. Muscle is a slow thing to add.
- [98:27]
G
Right.
- [98:27]
B
And so I think what's going to happen, you're going to add 300 calories, which isn't a lot. You're going to see some strength gains, and you might go up a pound or two on the scale, which is great.
- [98:38]
G
Yeah, that's fine.
- [98:38]
B
And it might require you doing another calorie bump.
- [98:41]
C
Yeah.
- [98:41]
H
Okay.
- [98:42]
B
Yeah. Because as you build muscle, I mean, it's really crazy how the metabolism, if you.
- [98:45]
C
If you. Because right now it's been hard to eat the carbs, but what might happen. Appetite goes up. And so listen to that. If the appetite goes up, that's a good sign, especially if you've done it through eating good Whole foods. We're a new training program. If you feel hungry, I would encourage you to eat. Just eat another one of the meals that you can. You already consistently eat, and you're in
- [99:05]
B
such a good place by everything that you're saying and how you do to pull up and you're getting stronger and doing well. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up somewhere around 2,800 calories. 2,900 calories. And that was where you ate, where you lived and just felt your best. Yeah.
- [99:18]
G
Boy, that's insane.
- [99:19]
H
I know.
- [99:21]
G
I really just can't believe how different things are as far as just understanding better how to build muscle and not worry so much about a number on a scale. And, I mean, I used to run like crazy, and I always said I loved it. Now I look back and, like, did I actually love it or did I just love the idea of loving it?
- [99:37]
C
I love that you. I love that you say that and admit that, because so many people don't say that and admit that and that it's so.
- [99:43]
G
You know, there's. There was some sort of badge of honor in doing the hard thing, but, you know, it's hard to stay healthy and not get injured. And I just feel like I'm enjoying things so much more. I can't tell you what a difference the strength of my legs made last week. I was. It was amazing. It was really just amazing, considering, you know. Yeah. What I would have done in the past is I would have just biked like crazy, like, several days a week to get ready for that trip. And I really only biked the once or twice and then just kept trying to get stronger.
- [100:13]
B
And that's awesome.
- [100:13]
G
I think it was. It was huge.
- [100:15]
B
No, that's great.
- [100:16]
C
So good.
- [100:16]
B
Yeah, great job.
- [100:17]
C
So good.
- [100:18]
D
That's awesome.
- [100:18]
G
Awesome. So I have a funny story to tell you. I was telling my daughter, I have a 19 year old daughter, and I was telling her how thankful I am that the message is a little bit more for girls about getting stronger as opposed to just getting skinny. And I was, I was telling her how thankful I was for that. And one day we're walking up the stairs and she's behind me and she's like, mom, if you've been squatting, your butt's getting really big. I thought to myself, man, compliments have really changed. In a good way.
- [100:47]
C
In a good way.
- [100:48]
G
But I, I'm thankful that she's not growing up with the messaging I grew up with. And I think she's going to be all the better for it. And I do think you guys have made a big impact in that regard.
- [100:58]
B
Thank you.
- [100:58]
G
For women in particular. So I'm very thankful.
- [101:01]
C
Thank you.
- [101:01]
B
Thank you so much.
- [101:02]
C
Thank you.
- [101:02]
D
Here.
- [101:02]
H
Thank you.
- [101:03]
C
Yeah, great job.
- [101:04]
B
Thank you.
- [101:04]
G
Well, thank you guys. Appreciate it.
- [101:06]
C
Give it up.
- [101:07]
G
All right.
- [101:09]
B
What a great message.
- [101:10]
C
Yeah, yeah, great call.
- [101:11]
B
What she's saying is true. The messaging is changing a lot to young women. It doesn't mean it's not going to get distorted and twisted because it always does, but it's a lot better than what it was. But to hear, you know, how great she's progressing, what she's eating, I mean, bumping her calories is, is what's going to do it and she's going to feel amazing doing it.
- [101:30]
C
I love, I love to hear her a lot more now say that and admit that too, because I can't tell you how many people I've looked in the eyes and they're, and they're telling me I love it. It's just, it's like, no, you don't hold your.
- [101:42]
B
Yeah, I love my circuit training. I love my, you know, beat up classes. I love my boot camp.
- [101:46]
C
You've convinced yourself that. But if you're the martyrs, completely conflicts with the goals and the things that you, you truly want. And there's a better way, you know.
- [101:54]
A
Our next caller is Kimberly from Minnesota.
- [101:57]
B
Hi, Kimberly.
- [101:57]
C
How you doing, Kimberly?
- [101:59]
E
Hi.
- [102:00]
B
How can we help you?
- [102:02]
F
Well, I'm calling in, I have a question. Basically been using programs for five years. First of all, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate getting to actually have feedback from you personally. I've been using anabolic performance, symmetry, muscle mommy maps 40 plus the 15s and I wanted to start ppl and I'm also a professor, so I have off in the summer. And I really like to run in the summer. And so I was starting my program and I just didn't quite know what to do with how to incorporate some running in with the ppl. And then I remembered listening to one of your episodes where you talked about possibly alternating weeks back and forth. So I just kind of wanted to hear what your thoughts are on what would be the best way to incorporate some running into a ppl. I guess either way, give us an
- [102:54]
C
idea of what, what, what type of running, like how much running are we doing? Would you like to do?
- [103:00]
F
And then so I sign up for like a 10 mile race like every fall just to kind of keep myself kind of in shape. And so like I'll throw in a three to four mile run on like a Tuesday Thursday I'll do some tempo runs or some speed or hill work. And then usually on like a Sunday I'll try to do the long run, like increase my mileage by like a mile every week kind of throughout the summer. So that's where I'm at.
- [103:25]
B
Okay, so you're doing that now, right? So three, three runs a week, one kind of long, one tempo and then run really long.
- [103:32]
F
Yeah.
- [103:33]
B
Okay. And you're going to be doing that now until when?
- [103:36]
F
Till about September. I start teaching again in September so it gets kind of busy so I kind of taper off.
- [103:41]
B
Awesome. And this is for a competition?
- [103:45]
F
Yeah, it's. I mean it's like a 10 mile road race. It's not like anything big deal. But I'm 45, so.
- [103:51]
H
Oh, that's cool.
- [103:51]
B
And that's a good distance.
- [103:52]
E
Yeah.
- [103:53]
B
So the way you would strength train while following that running schedule will be more like maps 15. So ppl is a little, is too much volume for all of that. So you're not going to get the same performance gains in your run or in the strength training because it's a lot. Now you can do the alternate thing where you run one week, lift one week. And that's totally up to how you feel about that. And it's also up to how your skill in running is. So sometimes people need to practice running frequently because of the skill of it. Other times people are like, no, my skill is good and I would prefer to do a week of lifting and then a week of running. So it really depends on you. How do you feel about, about something like that? Would you prefer to continue to practice the running on a weekly basis?
- [104:38]
F
I'm a former like college cross country runner. I've run like four marathons and so running for me is more like I pick it back up. Like, I can just, like, run three miles, like getting on a bike. You know, when you have that kind of memory, like, your body just kind of goes back to it. So it's not like a necessarily, like, practice of running. Um, so I don't know.
- [104:56]
D
Yeah, the alternate sounds pretty good.
- [104:58]
B
Then alternate. So one week, ppl. One week you just do the runs.
- [105:01]
D
I'm pretty curious how that works for you.
- [105:02]
C
I mean, it would be a fun experiment, but don't feel like you have to stick with it if you don't like it. So that's what all I would say with that is like, I think either one is fine. I think if you were going to do running every week, it would be maps 15, like Sal said, or run ppl and then go run and then run on the opposite. So either way is fine. But that would be kind of the two options. If it's conducive to your lifestyle. Do that and you like it, then. Then run it that way. Otherwise, I'd go the other day and
- [105:28]
B
what you would pay attention to is improvements in performance. So when you get back to the running, oh, my God, am I faster? Do I feel better? What it allows you to do is push the intensity on both. So the week that's just strength training. Well, I'm focused on strength training. The week that's on running, I'm just running. And so you can push the intensity a little bit. And so some people like that. And what we've seen in certain studies, and again, it depends on who we're talking about, is more better improvements in both when you alternate.
- [105:57]
H
Mm.
- [105:58]
F
Okay, I have a second part to my question. Is that okay?
- [106:02]
D
Yeah.
- [106:03]
F
So kind of leading into that, I know that running isn't good for fat loss. I've listened to you guys for, like, five years, so I've got that down. So what I'm thinking about is my body type. I'm more of an athletic body type. And so I feel like I'm very, like, heavy on top. So when I lift. And I know you can't get bulky from lifting, you've said this before, but I just feel bulky on top and my. I tend to lean out in the bottom, like my legs and my hips. I don't gain weight there. And so when I do lift heavy, I feel really strong. I'm strong in my lifts. I feel good about that, but I just always feel so bulky on top. Is there a way, like a program or a different way of lifting or is that just kind of genetics and I have to deal with.
- [106:51]
B
PPL has a women's version where there's more volume for the lower body than the upper body.
- [106:56]
F
Okay. So I'm using that right now. And I'm in phase two. I'm just starting phase two this week. Okay.
- [107:03]
B
So you continue to follow that. And if you want to take it a step further, you would cut the sets from the upper body even more and add a little bit more to the lower body.
- [107:12]
C
Transfer the volume you've been listening to, you said for four or five years.
- [107:15]
F
Yes.
- [107:16]
C
Have you heard me. Have you heard me tell Katrina's story of like.
- [107:21]
F
Yes. And I identified with this and I'm struggling because I know, like, it's a little bit of body fat probably, and that's like the last place I lose body fat. But I just have never been able to find, like, the right formula.
- [107:33]
C
Okay, so you. That's. I'm glad you've heard that. So I don't tell the whole story all over again, because your story resonates with me, because it sounds like her. She's got an athletic body. She has kind of a wider back. She was a basketball player. And she leg or she had the most amazing legs. They stayed lean all the time. But then her upper body, she just never felt like. She always felt boxy. She hated that would bother like crazy. She loved to run. That was always her way of kind of staying in shape as a basketball player. When she put on a couple extra pounds, she'd go start doing the hill runs like crazy. She'd lose those 10 and. But yet she never could get this body she wanted until she finally trusted me to, like, just allow me to bodybuild you for a little while. And we're going to abandon this running as your way of getting in and out of shape and losing your five or ten pounds. You want. Do you trust me? And it took us years before this. I think we're three, five years into our. Our relationship before I finally got the reins and I put her on a proper bulk of building muscle and just said, you got to trust me. We're going to build. We're going to build. We're going to build your metabolism up and we're going to do through strength training, we're not running at all. You're allowed to walk. We could do those things like that. But I, I put her on a true reverse diet in bulk, and I got her all the way up to like 29003000 calories from just Lifting weights and building muscle. And then I cut her and we leaned out, and when she leaned out, she finally had brought her waist in. She find her back looked different she'd ever looked, her arms and short. Like for the first time ever, she felt like, I have this physique. And that's when she let go of running. That woman has not ever ran again, other than to maybe play some basketball with my son and kids and stuff like that. She does not ever do it again because she realized how easy it was for her to just lift weights and, and maintain this physique that she wanted. And she kept going back in the past to the running to get there. If that resonates with you, that is probably what you need to do. If that's what you're looking for aesthetically, if you're looking for trying to build that, then I would recommend like a true bodybuilder type of reverse diet and build muscle, build the metabolism up and then a true cut and not using running as the method of trying to lean out, but let your metabolism do that. Hang on to that muscle you build, bring that waistline in. And so that would be my recognition. Now I know how difficult it is because I was married to the woman who had the trainer at her disposal and still didn't use him. So if, if you, if that resonates with you, you, you think you know, you do it, but you know how difficult the psychological piece is, then I just recommend getting a coach through that process.
- [110:00]
F
Okay, probably what I need.
- [110:02]
C
It would be a very well investment for you to have somebody take you through that, because that's what she had to do. She had to let go of the reins and, and say, okay, I trust you. I've watched you do it before my eyes now so many times. It blows me away how I watch you just morph and change your body. I want that. And I said, okay, then you have to do what I say and just trust me. And then, then I forever had her bought in. And so if you, if that's you, then it would be total worthwhile investment to have someone take you through that one full cycle. And it'd probably take a good solid minimum six to nine months of coaching with somebody to really take you through that process. But then once you got that in your back pocket, and that doesn't mean you'll never have to run. You can still run if you want to, and you love to, and you have a competition you want, but you can also control your body the way you want. As far as the aesthetic piece and, you know, what to do to get. To get both.
- [110:55]
F
I think that exactly sounds like me. You know, what do I say? Maybe I struggle because, like, what do I ask coach for? Then when I.
- [111:02]
B
You.
- [111:03]
C
You express what we just talked about right now, they'll. They'll take care of the rest.
- [111:05]
D
Convey it to, like.
- [111:06]
C
That's right.
- [111:07]
D
Yeah.
- [111:07]
C
You. You and all of our. Our coaches are not only trained by us. They were all. They all listen to every episode.
- [111:13]
B
And.
- [111:13]
C
And they know the story of Katrina. And so they're. Trust me, you just tell them that, like, I resonate with Adam's wife and her story and basketball and not being. And have feeling like I have a boxy upper body, and. And I know what I need. So they'll. They'll take you through everything.
- [111:27]
D
Yeah.
- [111:28]
G
Yeah.
- [111:29]
C
So if you want, when we hang up, I'll have. I'll have someone call you, and they can kind of go through all that with you. That would be my recommendation.
- [111:36]
F
Yeah, that'd be great.
- [111:37]
C
Cool.
- [111:37]
E
Let's go.
- [111:38]
B
Yeah, let's do that.
- [111:38]
C
Excited for you.
- [111:39]
B
All right, we'll see you in there.
- [111:40]
H
Yeah.
- [111:40]
E
Thank you.
- [111:41]
B
Thank you. All right.
- [111:42]
F
Yep.
- [111:43]
E
Bye.
- [111:43]
G
Recording.
- [111:44]
B
Yeah, that's, by the way, athletic body fat storage in women looks like that. Yeah. And that's not because sports makes you store body fat that way. It's because you're genetically.
- [111:54]
C
That's what made you good at sports. Exactly.
- [111:55]
B
Yeah. Storing body fat in the lower half is not good for sports, but this is how women tend to store body fat. But then you notice with athletes, I couldn't help it.
- [112:03]
C
I'm listening to the way she talked about the running. I'm listening. And I'm like, she's. Oh, ex athlete. I'm like, this sounds just like Katrina and how Katrina felt about her body. She would always. She had the most lean, defined legs all the time, just amazing. But her upper body, she just felt. And then she. She would start to lift weights for a while, and then she'd get off because. Because she'd feel like she got boxier, and she'd be like, that's not. I already feel boxy. It's making me boxier. And so. And that's. And I just had to wait until she came to me and I said, okay, this is what we need to do. We're gonna drop all this running, and we are gonna literally bodybuild where I'm gonna build your. I'm gonna build your upper body, and we're gonna reverse diet, and then we're gonna come back down and we're not gonna come down through running where you lose a bunch of that muscle that we just gained. We're gonna keep those great delts that I built on you and those lats that I built on you and we're gonna lean out nicely through diet and you're gonna see your waist come in and then you're gonna see this, this body you like. And sure shit, she never, she never strapped up them shoes again.
- [113:02]
B
Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.
- [113:05]
A
Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.