← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2919: 5 Tips for Bigger Arms (The Mistakes Most People Make Without Realizing It)
01:57:26
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A
If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
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B
Mind Pump. Mind Pump.
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With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer
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and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in history. Approaching over half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we answered live callers questions. We actually coached people on air live. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 63 minutes long. Now in the intro we talk about fitness, current events, muscle building, fat loss, family life, always a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, submit your question to mplifecaller.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Kion. Today we talked about their essential amino acid supplement. We just talked about a study that shows that non essential amino acids are not necessary to stimulate net muscle protein synthesis. What does this mean? Well, what that means is if you're in a cut, you could use essential amino acids to keep your muscle without adding a bunch of extra calories. Very effective tool. While you're going on a cut, go check them out. Go to getkeown.com that's G-E-T-K-I-O-N.com mindpump. That link will get you 20% off. This episode's also brought to you by mphormones.com if you go to mphormones.com, you can book a complimentary 10 minute consultation with a membership specialist to see if hormone therapy and peptide therapy is right for you. This is with doctors. This is legit FDA regulated compound pharmacies. If you want to explore hormone therapy, okay, Testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, thyroid. If you want to explore peptides, go to mphormones.com also right now we have a buy one, get one free thing going on with maps programs. The top 10 most popular maps programs. Maps, anabolic, aesthetic performance, 15 minutes anywhere symmetry, starter muscle mommy, power lift and 40 plus buy one, get one free. Happening right now. Go to mapsbogo.com all right, here comes the show. All right, real quick.
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D
If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear? Over atmypumpstore.com. i'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over tomy pump store.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.
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Easily one of the number one fitness goals when people go to the gym is to get bigger arms, more Sculpted arms to have arms that look amazing. We're going to give you five tips. They really work to get those arms that you want. Let's go.
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C
This is all I cared about.
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B
When you were young.
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C
When you're young, all I cared about.
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B
That's me too. You know, arm training. Arm training isn't super complex, right. So, like, if we talk about developing the lower body, working the back, in particular, training the core, some people think that's very basic and simple, but it can be difficult. There's a lot more complexity. But a lot of arm exercises are pretty straightforward. Yeah, it's pretty easy. Single joint action, it's pretty easy, but people still mess them up, and they mess them up in ways I don't think they realize that they're leaving a lot of gains on the table. In fact, what we're gonna talk about when I would train experienced lifters or when I manage gyms, and they weren't clients of mine, but they were members of the gym and we'd have conversations and we would include some of these things that we're gonna talk about. They seem like minor changes, but they make a big difference in your arm development. And here, I'll give you the first one. The first one is. This is gonna sound obvious, but you would be surprised. In fact, if you're listening, many of you are probably guilty of not training in a really full range of motion with your arm.
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D
Yeah, I was going to say there's actually pushback to this. I've. I've encountered it.
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B
Weird.
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E
Yeah.
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D
And in terms of like the time under tension kind of philosophy of, you know, not necessarily going to full range of motion, like there's some drop off. But yeah, if you're not expressing full range of motion, you're not actually achieving the full potential.
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F
The.
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D
The entire muscle.
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B
So I always hated the. The I got to maintain tension on the muscle, which is why I'm not doing a full range of motion. I hated that argument. Because unless you're relaxed in a full range of motion, like I'm setting the weight down right, the muscle is under tension. So stay connected the whole time. But the studies on full range of motion demonstrate this pretty clearly. You build more muscle and the strength that you develop is more complete because it's applied to, you know, most of the strength you gain in a range in a exercise, most of it goes to the range of motion that you train in. The further outside of that range of motion you move, the less of that strength is applicable. So in other words, if I do half Squats. Once I go down six inches below that, it's like significant drop off. It's a big force production.
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D
Drop off.
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B
And when it comes to muscle development, full range of motion has been shown in studies to make a difference. So this one's simple. And like I said, a lot of people are guilty of this, of stopping their curls, especially like a preacher curl, they'll stop it just short. Or tricep exercises where they don't go all the way up. They kind of stop at halfway. Like, just do the full range of motion with your current exercise and watch what happens.
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C
Yeah, I think this is because they end up. Or we end up trading weight for full range of motion.
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B
Oh, like, because I got to go lighter.
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C
Right. And so I think there's this idea that, you know, if I shorten the range up a bit, I can go up another five or ten pounds on the weight. And my, my ego likes that better that I can. You know, having to stay at 30, having to stay at 35s through a full range of motion, but just a highlight, like, I mean, I've talked about this before with my legs. I remember when that was on law for me, that was a real obvious one because I squatted down to 90 for so long and then to go full range, and it was a significantly lighter difference to see my. Myself be able to develop bigger legs. Going through a full range of motion with like, significantly, like 100 pound plus lighter weight is just highlights. Like, you know, you going down £5 or £10 on your bicep curls, to go through a full range of motion is far better than you going up five or ten pounds and shortening.
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D
Well, not to mention the, the longevity of this approach versus the other. And it's, you know, whenever you're going to be encountering anything in life where you're picking something up or you're using your arms to express that push or pull, like movement. If you're just, I don't know, let's say five degrees, you know, outside of your normal, like lifting patterns.
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B
Like, that's injury susceptible.
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D
Yeah, it's susceptible. Your body's not going to recognize that it's gonna immediately tense up and try to protect what it can so you don't get injured.
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B
I re. I have a sp. You just brought back a. A memory, Adam, that I totally forgot about. So I'm at this. Let me see. I must have been. I was 18. I was probably 18 years old. I was a fitness manager. And at this point, I had been working out for a while. So I started working out at 14. So I'm already experienced with working out. I'm a certified trainer. I'm not a good trainer yet, but I know what I'm doing in terms of exercises, let's say. Okay. And I had this trainer that worked for me. His name was Mitch. You might know Mitch, you might have met him before. Vietnamese dude, was kind of lean, muscular, and he had these really incredible looking arms. And him and I did this workout together. Now, I distinctly remember this because I had gotten so proud or so I was so prideful of the fact that I could do preacher curls. So I was 18. I could do preacher curls with the curl bar with the 25s on each side, right? So you got the curl bar, throw the 25s on, and I would do my preacher curls like that. And I did a workout with him. He put tens on each side, and I remember thinking, like, oh, this is gonna be easy. Then I watched him do his preacher curls, and he went all the way down, like way full extension. Almost like he's hyperextending his elbows and coming all the way up. And I always stop just short of that. I would stop, you know, maybe a couple inches short of that. And so I stuck with his weight. I did the real full range of motion with the curls. I got the craziest pump. And from then on, I changed the way I trained my biceps, especially on that exercise. And I noticed results very quickly. I didn't change the exercise, I didn't change anything. It went lighter, but I moved a couple range, a couple inches further with my range of motion. I also got this with overhead tricep extension. This is one that, you know, if you, especially if your elbows are healthy, you can get really strong and you can press a big dumbbell or whatever. And I learned the same thing. You know, I had the big 100 pound dumbbell, and I would stop just short, and my buddy's like, dude, grab the 50, go down as far as you possibly can, bring your elbows back, feel the stretch, and then go all the way up. And it feels fried. My triceps. And I had great results. It was all because of the range of motion. So here's the next one. In your arm exercises, try to always include one that loads the muscle in a stretched position. Okay, so this is a. And this would be an exercise where you feel the muscle stretching and you're also fighting resistance. So a good example of this for biceps would be like incline curls, right? I'm laying back on an incline. My elbows are down by my sides, lower the dumbbell all the way. And that's actually a stretch on the bicep. Right. If my elbows are in front of me, there's no stretch. But when I bring it back because of the attachment over the shoulder, like, if I were to stretch my bicep now, I'd have to bring my arm back in order to do so. That stretch position and loading it, the data shows, seems to have a little bit more. It's a little bit more special when it comes to hypertrophy for triceps. This would be an overhead exercise where you're really stretching the tricep. So in your workout, always try to include at least one exercise that loads the stretch position. And what you find oftentimes is their entire arm workout. There isn't a single stretch exercise. None of them.
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C
Yeah. I mean, I feel like you gotta do one in the stretch and one in the flex position.
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B
Yes.
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C
That's just that, that's the. The key. That was a big unlock for me because, you know, even I don't know how many years of, you know, biceps and triceps, three, four times a week I was doing, but for sure, I'm at your know, two or three by this time. When this finally comes together for me, I didn't realize that, you know, standing cable rope, push downs, straight bar push downs, triangle push downs and reverse push downs. Same exercise, all the same, you know, and so, you know, in a workout, I would do dumb stuff like that where I would do one of those exercises back to back, Like I was getting a, like a different workout and of course fell for the trap of, oh, it feels a little different. And so maybe it is different. And it's like, no, no, I'm not. I'm not hitting the tricep different from a different angle. Right. I'm not putting it in a stretch position and a contract in a fully contracted and then somewhere in the middle type of position and understanding that you're to your next point, like the elbow positioning of each one of the movements.
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B
That's what, that's what makes it a different exercise. For the most part.
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D
Yes.
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B
Is elbow position. So although hand supination plays somewhat of a role in bicep development, it does almost. It does nothing. Or tricep development. But what does change things is where your elbow is. So now when you're looking at your workout and you're like, which exercises should I pick? I'm going to do three today for my biceps or three for my triceps. Well, now you have all these exercises to pick from. You're like, okay, which ones do I pick? I can only pick three. Pick three. That where the elbow position is different. This is such an easy arm training program. Hack. Now when it comes to training chest and back and legs, it gets more complex. For arms, it's literally this simple. Yeah. Pick different, different elbow positions. Done. You now have perfect, perfect arm workout.
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C
And an example that would be like elbows other side, elbows in front, elbows behind.
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B
For triceps.
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C
Yeah, perfect.
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B
Or for biceps, elbows behind, elbows, asides, elbows. Like, if you just do that, load those muscles with a different elbow position, you're going to get really a great workout and really full development. Much more than if you picked three exercises with the same or similar.
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D
I was waiting for this, this next one.
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B
Compound lifts.
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D
Compound lifts, yeah, just because, you know, in terms of loading muscles and also getting the maximal benefit of that, you know, really loud signal and then following up with the single joint movement. A lot of times too, like playing between both just. And this is the funny part, you think, like power lifters themselves, you know, like, dude, they get really big muscles.
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B
Yes.
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D
And it's a very demanding signal that they're producing when they're, you know, summoning all this force. And so the only way to do that is with these compound lifts and then to, you know, sharpen it, sculpt it. I understand all that, you know, as a result of that, but if you're not going to include compound lifts, you're not going to even touch the amount of gains potential.
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B
And you're a good example of this. I mean, probably if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see Justin. Justin's got some guns on him. And he probably does an isolation exercise for his biceps and triceps. I don't know, twice a month, maybe very infrequently, but for the most, it's all compound.
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D
I enjoy them. But yeah, it's all compound lifts. Yeah.
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B
And so compound lifts for triceps are things like close grip, bench press dips. When it comes to biceps, where people are like, what's a compound lift? Like back exercises, kinda, you just do them differently. An exercise that I learned from Mike Menservice. So Mike Metzer talked about this and he learned from Arthur Jones was a supinated grip pull down. Now I know you're like, well, that's a back exercise. It is, but you can change the way you do it to make it a bicep exercise. If you kind of lean forward and curl the weight down on the Way down. Watch what happens to your biceps.
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D
They will really recruit your biceps.
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B
They will. You will feel them like you've never felt them before. And you'll be able to load them with the weight that you normally wouldn't be able to curl, which plays a big role in their size and development, not to mention the functionality.
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C
Well, just to back up how powerful compound lifts are for building the arms, even these, because you guys are naming movements, right, like dips and, and supinated curls, which are. You're trying to, you are trying to target the arms. But you'd be surprised how much your arms grow just from heavy lifting. The traditional.
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F
Yeah.
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D
Oh, yeah.
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C
Compound lifts. So, I mean, since my pec tear, what, a year and a half ago, I can probably count on one hand, maybe definitely under two hands. I can know less than 10 times, maybe under five, that I've trained my arms in a year and a half. Yeah, I never train my arms anymore, but I still do a lot of the heavy compound lifts and that's been enough to sustain. Now I don't have as impressive as arms as I did, but I still got arms. You know, I still don't look like somebody who doesn't work their arms out and that's just been able to be sustained from doing compound lifts and not doing any of these lifts are even targeting it. And I know a lot of guys that are like that, that just don't even do arms. I mean, a lot of your, your CrossFit people, almost all CrossFit guys are not. Don't do isolation curls.
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D
Get a big bench from bicep without. Or tricep. Yeah, without getting massive triceps and shoulders as a result. It's like it has to balance it out.
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B
Yeah, no, 100% a good example, by the way of this. And sometimes I get a little bit of controversy around. Look at gymnasts. Gymnasts have crazy looking triceps and biceps. Now part of this is, you know, when you look at top level gymnasts, what you're looking at are genetically gifted mini bodybuilders. They have these polymorphisms that make them really good at gymnastics. The other part of it is how they train, you know, the iron cross. I mean, this is crazy tension on the biceps, constantly doing pull ups, constantly doing dips, very little if no isolation exercises. And their arms look like amateur bodybuilders with the development. And it's all from these compound lifts. Compound lifts are like your bread. This is like your meat and potatoes. The isolation exercises are great and they do something, but if you get strong, you get strong at a close grip bench press. Watch what happens to your triceps. There is no tricep press down in the world that will come close to adding 30 pounds to your close grip bench.
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C
To Justin's point, show me somebody who bench presses heavy and I'll show you some big triceps. Show me somebody who rose a barbell heavy, really heavy. I'll show you bicep. I mean, just, it comes along with that territory. And the reason why, and the reason why I want to put emphasis on it is because I wish I knew that. I know, I wish someone had really hammered that home to me when I was younger because I spent so many years doing arm full day arm workouts and all I did was arm stuff. It was all isolation stuff and it was like all to grow these arms and it's like, man, if I would have just got a bigger bench, a bigger row and not to mention like that we're talking specifically about the arms. But the carryover that getting those things have to just overall building muscle development or anything like that, it just, it has a compounding effect. You know, it's just, you can't, you cannot stress that enough. That, that should be the cornerstone is because somebody who listens to an episode like this that wants to get big arms, I, I bet you are already training arms like all the time, but, and they're probably trading that out for other days of deadlifting or rowing or bench pressing or like, don't do that to make that your cornerstone. And then, yes, then take the advice we're giving right now of, you know, elbow positioning and do these compound lifts and that's all. But it's like, man, the cornerstone should be go get big at these, go get strong with these big lifts and watch what that does.
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B
No, these are simple. Like I said, these are simple tips that make a big difference. And then the last one, this, this applies so well to arm training. So occlusion training or blood flow restriction was really popular. I want to say like nine years ago, eight years ago, this was this, this builds muscle, you guys, it builds muscle and it's a strange way to train. It's, it was used in physical therapy far way before any bodybuilder got their hands on it. And it, it was discovered, I want to say 60 or 70 years ago, essentially when you occlude a muscle of venous outflow, so of blood outflow, waste byproducts build up in the muscle and the, the fast twitch muscle fibers, fatigue and Adapt as if you were lifting really heavy weight. You also get this crazy stretch phenomena from this intracellular pump, which is the most intense you've ever felt with occlusion training. So for people aren't familiar, it's really easy with arms. It's more difficult with other body parts. But you would take a knee wrap and I would tie it around my upper arm tight enough to where I could feel it's cutting off some blood supply. I don't go so tight that I'm numb, but enough to where, oh yeah, I could feel that's pretty tight. Then I go rep out some curls and I'm going to warn you, the fire that you will feel in your biceps for doing this, it is nothing more painful than this feeling right here. It's literally because the waste byproducts are just building up in the muscle. You can't get rid of it. It burns like crazy. The pump you get is insane. It's the craziest pump you've ever felt. And it, it adds another element. When I've done this, I've done this on calves and I've done this on arms. And within weeks I added a quarter inch to both of them just for adding a couple sets in the week. Just a couple sets in the week. And it made a huge difference. Anybody doing this? Anybody doing this?
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D
The forgotten method.
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B
But it's wild.
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C
It was hot and popular for a minute and I don't know why, if it fell out of favor or not, but I mean for both, for arms and calves. This is like such a hack.
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B
Oh, such a cool. It's crazy. Yeah, it's fun. It's crazy. And again, you grab some light dumbbells, rep them out, you'll feel the burn. Rest 30 seconds to a minute. The burn will not go away while you're resting. You're just gonna. It's actually gonna intensify.
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D
Super novel stimulus.
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B
Then go grab the really light dumbbells again. I mean, just so people know, for me it was like 10 pound dumbbells. Rep them out again, do this three times, then let go of the dumbbell, sit for another 30 seconds while everything's on fire. Take off the knee wraps. And you did it. And again the pump and the swelling you get from this is just super, super crazy. Anyway, I have, Doug has a study that I'd like for him to pull up on non essential amino acids and how they're not necessary to stimulate NET muscle protein synthesis. Okay. So I want him to pull this up. So this is really interesting. Okay. So muscle protein synthesis we can measure. And when this is positive, when we see this, what this means is the body's building. Okay, so we're building. So if we measure this, is it
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C
certain that's always happening when that's happening?
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B
Well, it's got to stay positive all the time. Okay, so, so obviously you can go positive, then you go negative much later and it comes out to like nothing.
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C
Okay.
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B
But what we do see by doing certain things, eating particular ways or whatever is like, oh, this is stimulating muscle growth. Now it used to be, I think believed that you needed a complete protein for this to happen. And what they found in this study and other studies is that the non essential amino acids are not needed. Only essential amino acids are needed to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. Now this doesn't mean this is all you ever do. So all you ever do is take essential amino acids and you never have complete proteins. That doesn't make sense because you're going to eat food. But what this does mean is that if you're in a cut, this is where this applies. You're in a cut, your calories are low. Adding a bunch of extra protein now is you're counting all of your calories. So you're like, well, you know, how do I get more muscle protein synthesis but I can't go over on my calories. Throw some essential amino acids at yourself
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D
on top of it.
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B
It's very low calorie, almost no calorie because it's not a complete protein. And you're going to get more muscle protein synthesis. And so this is a great strategy because the main strategy in a cut is preservation, is keep my muscle. And essential amino acids, you know, like the kion ones that we've been using, you take six of those capsules three, four, five times a day to keep that muscle protein synthesis high. Your calories barely budge because it's not a complete protein.
- [22:05]
D
Well, that makes sense. We've been saying that for people in a GLP one.
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B
Totally.
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D
And so of course, yeah, to take that into somebody like, who's on a cut too, I would imagine that's the benefit.
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C
I experimented with it last year. It was super effective. I wish I had it when I was bodybuilding, you know, or at least I wish I did it when I was bodybuilding. I didn't do it when I was bodybuilding. In fact, I was still like big, you know, amino acids. Essential amino acids are just all this. Yeah, waste bcas or waste all this. That's. I was in that camp still at that time. So I didn't waste my time with doing that. And I look back now and I wish I would have. I saw. I mean, I did a Dexa. I did Dexa before, after, and the whole cut, I did that. I lost like no muscle. And you do a cut for you, you typically lose a little bit of muscle.
- [22:48]
B
It's expected.
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C
Yeah, you're expected. And your goal is to lose as minimal as possible. And so to be in a cut for as long as I was and shred down like I did that last, that time last year, that was like really impressive.
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B
If I were to do an aggressive. And I have, I don't really have any intentions of doing an aggressive cut, but let's say I wanted to get into single digit body fat. And for me it's a little different from person to person. But if I start to go like, I can maintain around 11% body fat, maybe 10, and I'm okay. If I want to start to get into the single digit, it's like, I know I'm going to lose some muscle. That's just, just what happens if I get, especially if I get below 7%, like, and there's nothing I could do. I'm just gonna. It's just a matter of how much muscle I lose. The way I would do it now is like I normally do with my diet and everything is I would have the kion essential amino acids and I'd take that like five times a day. Yeah, I would throw six, six, six capsules at myself five, six times a day. And I would preserve more muscle than. Than I have in the past. That would be the strategy. So did you see, Adam, I don't know if you saw this. Did you see the meme that's going around about. I'm going to pull it up right now about Germany's tax brackets and system and how. And how like, weird it is. How crazy managing that. Okay. No, no, dude, this is wild. So somebody did the math on this and what they did is. So this is a dual earner couple with two children, how much money they would make and how much money they would take home based off of the tax system in Germany. In Germany.
- [24:20]
F
Okay.
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C
So did they convert it to US Dollars? So it's easy for us to kind of translate.
- [24:24]
B
Well, it's in euros, so it's fine, whatever. So here's what's crazy. Because of the way the tax system works. You take home essentially the same amount of money. If you make €3,000 or €6,000amonth, it's almost the Same so you could make twice as much but because you make so much more, they tax you that much more and you end up taking home almost the same exact amount of money as a person who makes three. That's right.
- [24:52]
C
Well I mean how it's not double is crazy because we're not double like that. But I remember. Don't you remember this yourself? Like I remember working my way up right. The annual income and now this is granted 20 something years ago. So this has probably moved and changed a little bit. But I clearly remember when you move
- [25:14]
B
into a new tax bracket.
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C
Yeah, yeah. So I clearly remember what it was like to go from like 70,000 a year to like 90 to like 110 range. And I remember getting to like the 110 and like that was like a big milestone to be in the six figures. Right. And going like I didn't feel any wealthier at 110 that I did at 70 because at 70 I had very minimal taxes. I had enough write offs expenses. I basically like paid no extra taxes. But once I got into the six figure more like I was paying, paying extra taxes. So it's like I brought home a little bit more during the year but then I had to pay back stuff at the end of the year and I'm like when I look at the math and I wash it, I'm like God for that. Climbing all the way up to there. I really don't feel like I made much more. And they're it really. And they. And I've heard, I've seen people put this up before where it's like the leap you have to make to really make the lifestyle feel different is it's wild. And so even in the US it's like that. It's maybe not that extreme.
- [26:10]
B
Yeah.
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C
Where it's three and six.
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B
Well what's crazy about this is it's, it de. Incentivizes people.
- [26:15]
D
Yeah.
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B
So imagine if you're this couple and you know this and you're taking home X amount and you're like okay, should I work harder? Should I go for that promotion? Should I try to become more productive?
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D
Incentives aren't even really a part of it.
- [26:31]
B
And you're looking at each other and you're like honey, if we make double we take home the same amount. Don't even waste your time. Why waste your time? Yeah, this happens with a lot of, with some of our like social programs. So I know somebody like this.
- [26:43]
D
Yeah.
- [26:44]
B
Where they get so much money from the state and, and I'm like, hey, why don't you get a job? And, like, if I get a job, I don't lose these.
- [26:52]
D
Yeah.
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B
I don't get this anymore.
- [26:54]
D
Yeah.
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B
And. And so essentially, if I get a job, I'm going to make the same amount as I'm already currently getting, except now I'm working.
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C
Yeah.
- [27:01]
B
So I think I'm just not going to work. And I can't blame.
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D
Yeah.
- [27:05]
B
Like, that's. That's a logical. Logical thought process.
- [27:07]
D
Right.
- [27:08]
C
Yeah.
- [27:08]
B
You know?
- [27:08]
C
Yeah.
- [27:09]
B
So it's kind of crazy.
- [27:10]
C
No, I mean, that's. Yeah. No, I know. I know plenty of people that are like that. That I've seen it. That's tough for me to wrap my brain around that. But that's. We've. But you've created that. You create when you. And you incentivize people to do that. Why go to work when I make what I'm going to make a couple more bucks and I got to work way harder, Work way harder. Does it make sense? I mean, don't you remember going that
- [27:29]
B
way, like, with your.
- [27:30]
C
So the one positive to that, I guess, was it really made me look at what I did and how much I like it. And so, like, when I would get opportunities, and I'm sure you guys did, too, from clients and stuff like that, to move careers. Right. Like, I always had always, you know, I don't know how many times in a year, maybe a couple times a year, I'd get a client who. That we connected. They really liked me, and they would be like, you know, hey, come work for me. You know, you should come work for me and I'll pay you this much. And it was, you know, sometimes it was more money than what I was making, but it was always like, a little bit more than what I was making. And I was always like, yeah, yeah, no, I know what it's like.
- [28:06]
B
I love what I do.
- [28:06]
C
I love what I.
- [28:07]
D
Just fun.
- [28:08]
C
Yeah.
- [28:09]
D
Yeah.
- [28:09]
C
I love what I do. And another 30, $40,000 a year, which sounds like a lot. Yeah, it's not really a lot.
- [28:15]
B
Yeah.
- [28:16]
C
Because when you move up, that's another tax bracket. You go up and it's like, really? What is that difference per month? And when you live in an area that's expensive, it's like, I mean, it doesn't make that big of an impact.
- [28:28]
B
One of the tough things, I think, for, you know, I think people. And I get why this is a difficult one. And I was lucky. I had some really. You know, I come from an immigrant family, so they're very Hardworking. I was constantly preached to about all the great opportunities here we could take. And, you know, my dad grew up real poor. My mom, her dad came here when he was, you know, very difficult time. So I was brought up in this kind of like, you know, you're very grateful for what you have, go out there, work hard type of deal. And it was, it was. It was a huge plus. But I, And I kind of understand where people, you know, where this mentality comes from. But you see someone producing so much or making so much more. Well, yeah, they should pay so much more in taxes. But what you gotta be careful with is, what you don't wanna do is take your most productive people as defined by what the market says is productive. So I know sometimes people argue this, like, I work real hard too. Like, I know they work, but I also bust my ass. It's like, okay, you do work really hard. Okay. But the market determines value. And so if somebody's being really productive based off of what the market says, and oftentimes it's skewed, right? Like, it could be that they're making some product or whatever that's like, okay, is that really benefiting anybody? But oftentimes it's also like, they're innovating. They're doing some things that are really. What we don't want to do is deincentivize people who are really productive by saying, hey, you're gonna get hammered. You know, more. The more you make, the more you produce. And what ends up happening is you can get people to go, what's the point? I'm not even gonna try anymore.
- [30:04]
C
Yeah, I think it. I think it's really easy to look at that when you've. You've been kind of an employee your whole life. It's different once you've had to build a business. Like, you have a total different lens that you can see that through.
- [30:15]
D
I've learned. I've had very different conversations about this with, you know, my friends that are work as a teacher, like work with the government or.
- [30:24]
G
Yeah.
- [30:25]
D
Have just been an employee and, like, has never even attempted to own their own business. It's a totally different world view and perspective you get as a small business owner. And a lot of those, you know, tapes and restrictions and things that you have to kind of bust through just to get, you know, what. What's on paper, you know, bringing that home. It's.
- [30:44]
B
It's pretty substantially, you know, it's been fun. It's been really fun. And your oldest works, right? Okay.
- [30:50]
E
Yeah.
- [30:51]
C
Yeah, he does.
- [30:51]
B
Okay. So this is really interesting. This is really cool. I think every kid goes through this. My niece gets a job, right? She starts working, she gets her paycheck, and she's looking at it and going, wait a minute.
- [31:02]
C
Rest of it.
- [31:03]
B
Why is my. I make 15 an hour.
- [31:05]
E
Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:06]
B
And I'm like, oh, you pay taxes? And to see the light bulb go on. And for her to be like, wait a minute. Isn't that, like. No, that's how much you gotta pay. Yeah, I should see that. That come through. It's pretty funny. Have you guys experienced that with your kids? Have they said anything about that?
- [31:20]
D
Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah. Same thing as a paycheck. And. Yeah, I think the realization of that was two. And the nice part was, was Ethan was running his own experiment with trying to sell T shirts. And he was originally trying to sell, like, these packets that were like. Like Gatorade that he was, like, hustling at school, and kids were buying it from him and stuff. And it was a cool little thing he was doing. And then he was making, you know, some. Some side change from that. And of course, you know, I was buying some stuff, like, off Amazon for him initially. And then I was like, you gotta
- [31:56]
B
put that back in his margins.
- [31:58]
D
His margins were 100. And so then he. He, you know, moves all that into, like, well, I want to sell T shirts now. And, like, he actually was pretty resourceful and got this, like, whole setup from his gymnastic gym. They had, like, made T shirts before in the past, but it was like they, you know, they weren't using it. And so he asked if he could use it, and. And so basically brought it home. And he's got this whole thing all set up. Yeah, I'm like, oh, cool. Like, I'm all about, like, helping you, like, get this thing off the ground. Launch and all this. But I was like, you know, you're gonna have to buy all the T shirts, and you're gonna have to buy the ink and, you know, and all that kind of. So you gotta factor all that in and, you know, see how we're gonna recoup. And. And so he bought all that. He sold a few, and it just. It, like, crushed him, you know, he was just the realization of, like, I don't think I'm gonna make my money back down. I was like, I know it's hard, right? You know, but it's like, you got
- [32:53]
B
one under your belt.
- [32:54]
D
I was like, the more of these you keep doing, and you figure it out, like, that's what entrepreneurship is.
- [33:00]
C
I can't wait for that day.
- [33:01]
D
It was rad though. It was fun.
- [33:02]
B
My five year old, he, he'll buy like, it's like jewelry making kits, but it's like for kids stuff like you make a bracelet or whatever. And he was selling them to family. Of course family members are gonna buy them all. And so now we go to the store and he's like, I wanna papa buy this for me. I'm like, why? So I can sell some. So then I'm having the conversation of like, okay, it cost $15 and you're gonna sell them for a dollar each. You're gonna make $10. You actually lost $5. And he's like, what? And I'm like, yeah, if you buy this and you sell them for a dollar each, you lose money. And it's like the wheels are turning.
- [33:36]
C
I need to raise prices. Yeah, totally.
- [33:40]
B
Did you guys see? They just. This is the new data that came out. It was a federal national survey on drug use and health. The number one used addictive substance in America. Do you guys want to guess what it is?
- [33:53]
C
They were including things like nicotine and like alcohol.
- [33:56]
B
No, no, it's legal stuff. Let's talk about that.
- [33:58]
C
Oh, legal stuff.
- [33:59]
A
Caffeine.
- [34:00]
C
So Nick. Oh, yeah, caffeine.
- [34:01]
B
They didn't put caffeine.
- [34:02]
D
That counts.
- [34:02]
B
They don't count that. That's a good one, Doug. They should. If they put caffeine on, I mean,
- [34:05]
C
it's gonna be nicotine or I mean,
- [34:08]
B
for the first time, actually, not alcohol. I went way down for the first time ever. Weed.
- [34:12]
C
Wow.
- [34:12]
F
Oh, wow.
- [34:13]
B
Weed, Weed. Cannabis is the number one used, most popular daily drug. It now beats alcohol and cigarettes.
- [34:22]
D
I don't know how I feel about that.
- [34:24]
B
Same. I don't know if I like that.
- [34:26]
D
It's not a good thing.
- [34:27]
B
I don't think it's a good thing.
- [34:28]
D
I definitely, just from what I've seen from teenage kids and like how insanely pervasive it is and how, and how unproductive. You know, a lot of you guys sound like me.
- [34:38]
C
You guys remember when we had this debate like, like a couple years ago. You remember this?
- [34:41]
B
Yeah.
- [34:42]
D
You did?
- [34:42]
G
Yeah.
- [34:42]
D
You already started that?
- [34:43]
C
Yes. I said, man, I would way rather catch my kid drinking.
- [34:48]
D
Yeah.
- [34:48]
C
And drunk then catch him smoking weed.
- [34:50]
D
Yeah.
- [34:51]
C
And that was coming from back then. I was smoking weed all the time. I was like, that's coming from somebody who smokes. Like, I, I, I would rather that. And it's, and it's not because I think One is more or less healthier. It's not even that angle. It's that it's. Weed is pervasive like that. It's easy to justify. It's healthy for me. Or it's not bad. Or it's like, oh, it helps you with my anxiety, like hangovers.
- [35:12]
D
And you don't. There's not a lot of like, yeah, like immediate consequence rules.
- [35:17]
F
Right.
- [35:17]
G
Things.
- [35:18]
C
Right, exactly. And so that, that to me is, it's, it is. It creeps on you and then before you know it, it's a daily habit and you don't, you're unproductive. You don't do shit.
- [35:30]
B
You know what's one of the crazy things about this? So I was wrong on this, and I'm going to say this. I thought that legalizing cannabis, this was back when it wasn't legal. Okay. Now it's mostly legal. It's not federally legal yet, but it's basically legal because so many states have legalized it in the federal government doesn't. Doesn't really care or do anything about it. I thought legalizing it would not increase its use. I thought, oh, it's just going to be about the same and maybe even people will use it last because it's not as like seductive because it's not this black market thing. It's not exciting.
- [36:02]
F
Right.
- [36:03]
B
Which now, in hindsight was one of the dumbest opinions you could possibly ever have. It for sure increased you through the roof.
- [36:09]
C
I don't, I don't think it's fair to, to call that yet. It's still novel. It's extremely novel for a vast majority of our society.
- [36:22]
B
You think it's going to, you think it's going to go up in 100%?
- [36:25]
C
Yeah, 100% it's novel. I mean, I mean, I see it in my like own, like family of like people that were like, weed was so taboo and enough educations come found that it actually is not too bad for you. It's like, okay, let me try it.
- [36:38]
B
You know?
- [36:38]
C
Oh, and they're like, there's, there's this curve happening or this, this pendulum happening right now of everybody can get it. It's not so bad for you. Oh, let's try. Oh, it's fun. I never did it. Like, it's, there's a lot of that happening right now. And then also kids can get it legal. I do think, I definitely think it's going to swing back. Will it come way back and lower?
- [36:58]
B
How high is it going to get before.
- [37:00]
C
Right. Like that. That the Verdict's not out.
- [37:03]
B
It's just wild to me that in the US it's used more daily than alcohol or. Or tobacco, which is wild. Here's the other part of this is interesting to speculate on. Okay.
- [37:14]
C
Smoking weed by yourself is not as. As. As is like, bad as, like, drinking by yourself.
- [37:20]
B
Well, I was.
- [37:20]
F
Okay.
- [37:21]
B
You're kind of along the lines of where I'm going.
- [37:22]
E
So.
- [37:23]
B
Okay, definitely alcohol can have some horrible effects. Alcoholism, terrible.
- [37:28]
C
Like, how often does. How often did anyone ever say, like, yeah, man, I had a. A couple beers and played some video games. You definitely smoke some weed and play video games.
- [37:35]
B
Well, this is where I'm going most social. Most people. Exactly where I'm going. Most people who drink, you know, who enjoy. Enjoy the occasional drink, even weekly or whatever are not alcoholics. We know this. The vast majority of people drink alcohol are not alcoholics. The vast majority of people who drink alcohol are doing it in a social setting. Yeah, it's a social. One of the effects of alcohol is it's kind of a social lubricant.
- [38:01]
C
Yeah.
- [38:01]
B
Cannabis is not cannabis.
- [38:04]
D
You get weird.
- [38:05]
B
Cannabis actually is. Now, some people say it's social. Not really. It really isn't. I know a lot of introverts. Put yourself in a scale back. Put yourself in kind of a scary social situation. Smoke and drink, guaranteed you won't. You'll run away.
- [38:18]
C
I don't care who you are. I mean, there's obviously my brother's example, someone who uses it for social anxiety. Right. But that he's a minority. Even if that is true of people that do it. Mo. And if it's something that you can smoke in your room by or do in your room by yourself, like, it's not a. It's not a social.
- [38:36]
D
And also, that's like intervention, you know, with alcohol.
- [38:39]
B
Yeah.
- [38:39]
D
If you're just sitting there, like, drinking hard alcohol by yourself, like, people are gonna be really concerned.
- [38:44]
F
Yeah.
- [38:44]
B
But also, I would challenge that. Adam. So I don't know your brother.
- [38:47]
H
Yeah.
- [38:48]
B
Would you say he's, like, a super social person?
- [38:49]
C
Oh, no, I'm. That's why I did the air quotes. Is this, like, I don't. I don't buy that.
- [38:54]
B
It's.
- [38:54]
D
Right.
- [38:54]
C
Yeah. But it's. Listen, who am I to say, like, maybe it does what.
- [38:58]
B
Whatever.
- [38:59]
C
It's like, I still would argue that he's an anomaly even if that's true.
- [39:03]
B
So I. I'm the reason why I'm, like, sounding the alarm on this. I'm speculating, but, you know, I've done both. Right. If I've smoked weed, I've had alcohol. Weed does not make me more social. Maybe when I'm with close friends that I trust.
- [39:15]
D
Yeah.
- [39:16]
B
But you put me in a place. I don't know anybody. If you give me any cannabis, like now I'm. Now I don't want to talk to anybody. I'm way more anxious. Okay. Yeah. I think with the loneliness epidemic, with the fact that society is now organizing itself in a way to make.
- [39:30]
C
It's a dangerous combination.
- [39:31]
B
Yeah. It's like social socializing. Okay, so this is what happened. Activity. We organized society to make being active difficult. It's actually being active now is. You have to. You have to go out of your way to be active. Being sedentary is the default. This is how we organize society. We've also now slowly, maybe actually quickly have organized society in a way to make being social with people something you have to go out of your way to do. Whereas being social used to be the default. You had to be social. If I went to the store, you know, I had to walk to the store, I had to go to store. I had to talk to people I knew, my neighbors. We have organized society now to isolate ourselves. Doordash, Internet, like, everything is like. And we know this. The loneliness epidemic is crazy. You throw weed on top of that. Holy cow. Bad combination. And that's not good for people.
- [40:18]
C
Yeah, No, I don't. I don't disagree with that at all. I don't. It's a bad. And that. And that is what could potentially cause it to continue to go really, really bad and stay bad for a long time.
- [40:26]
B
And listen, okay, I'll say this about alcohol. Is there a difference between drinking a beer and doing shots?
- [40:34]
A
Yeah.
- [40:34]
B
Okay. Cannabis does not look the same as it used to. It does not look the same. You go to a dispensary and you find yourself a joint and you try to find one less than 20%. THC. They don't sell them. Oh, yeah, they don't. No, they're all 25 plus. It used to be 15%, 10%. They're making them strong as hell. So this is. This will be interesting.
- [40:56]
C
I mean, I just gonna say if you could finish a. Finish a joint, you're a stoner. I mean, that's like today's cannabis. I mean. Yeah, no, I'm blitzed. If I have, like more than two hits or something. I mean, that would be just. If you can actually finish a whole one. Like, that's. That's crazy.
- [41:13]
B
You got a Crazy tolerance.
- [41:15]
C
Yeah, which. Yeah, exactly. Which means you had to do a lot to get to that.
- [41:17]
B
A lot.
- [41:17]
C
You had to do a lot to get to that level. For sure. Yeah. No, I, I mean, I mean, part of the motivation. There was several things that motivated me to, to quit, but I also know my son's getting to that certain age and I like, I, I definitely, if I want, if I don't want him to ever do that, one of the easiest ways I think, is to him not see his dad or, you know, be around that or any of that stuff. And so that was a big, big motivation for me. And I'm not an anti cannabis person. Like, I, Even when I said, when I stopped, I was like, you know, I'm not saying I'll never do it again. Like, I'll. Like there's. I'm sure there's going to be a situation or a time where I partake or do that, but it'll be few and far between.
- [41:55]
B
I have a friend of mine, I won't say who they are and give too many details, but someone I know very well who was a, A regular cannabis user. So they have it on kind of a daily basis, which now we're finding is not that uncommon. Okay. So they used it regularly. They also had social anxiety and would not necessarily like to be in public or social situations. Thought that that was their personality. Just thought that that's who they were.
- [42:20]
E
Yeah.
- [42:20]
B
Quit smoking cannabis after getting through the first couple months of the difficulty of whatever became much more social, hosting events, being around people and literally told me, said to me, I thought that was my personality. I had no idea it was the cannabis.
- [42:36]
C
That's like the people that think they're productive on it and then they get off of it. It's like, whoa, that's what productivity looks like, actually looks like it's like caffeine
- [42:44]
B
is good for you.
- [42:45]
C
You went to work, you still went to work. You still did your job. Does not mean you're productive yet.
- [42:49]
B
You guys know that one meme that says, like, hard times create good men, good men create good times. Okay. They made one for nicotine in cannabis. It said, nicotine. Nicotine produces. Produces good men. Good men. Good times. Good times produce weed. Weed produces bad men. Bad. So basically saying like, nicotine was getting.
- [43:08]
C
Guys get back to smoking cigarettes.
- [43:14]
D
Work our way back to Marlboro.
- [43:15]
B
I think that's hilarious.
- [43:17]
C
That's hilarious.
- [43:18]
B
I just learned something the other day. Have you guys ever heard of the over just justification effect?
- [43:25]
C
I feel like I can guess what it is. Yeah.
- [43:27]
B
It's really cool, dude. I looked at the study, or I saw this study. It was really interesting. So scientists took a group of kids who love to draw. Okay, these were already kids. They love to draw. That's just, like, their favorite thing to do. Whenever they have free time, they draw. They enjoy it. They took and they divided them. And this, you can look this up. Look up the overjustification effect, Doug, if you don't mind. And they took the kids, they separated them. They gave half the kids a star every time they drew. So every time they drew, they give them a star and a reward. The other kids, they left alone. Here's what happened. The kids who were given a star stopped drawing on their own. They just stopped. The kids, they left alone continue to go. Continue to do it. They call it the over justification effect. Athletes experience this as well. You have athletes who are passionate about a sport, love it, got all the trophies, do everything, then suddenly they go play pro, and now it's a job. They're getting paid, and they lose. They lose the passion for it. And you'll see that as well. Well, they talk about, I wonder what
- [44:24]
C
that curve looks like.
- [44:25]
D
Yeah, I know.
- [44:25]
B
It's like.
- [44:26]
C
Because obviously there's some positive reinforcement that probably happens early on. You start drawing and you get a star. You get this thing like that. In fact, actually, I think I, I, I saw Horozi just talking about this. This must have been what he was alluding to, this study, because he was saying that, like, that falls off after a while. So what's the curve look like? Because initially, that reward signal does work. Like, initially.
- [44:48]
B
What is, what does it say, Doug?
- [44:49]
A
Well, I don't know, but the. If you look at the graph, it looks like it falls off very quickly.
- [44:53]
B
That's right.
- [44:53]
C
Oh, interesting.
- [44:54]
B
Can you pull it? Can you put it up on the.
- [44:55]
D
It looks like a tree.
- [44:56]
B
Oh, it's not there.
- [44:57]
D
Okay. Sorry.
- [44:58]
B
Yeah, Yeah.
- [45:00]
A
I thought it was up.
- [45:01]
B
No, no. No worries. Yeah, it's interesting. Right? And so you see this with people, too. Yeah. So people who love doing what they do.
- [45:08]
C
Yeah.
- [45:09]
B
Yeah.
- [45:09]
D
Look at that.
- [45:10]
B
Yeah.
- [45:10]
C
What's that? What is that? What's that graph?
- [45:12]
B
What's the intrinsic motivation?
- [45:14]
C
What's the X and Y?
- [45:16]
A
Okay. Obviously the motivation is on. I guess this would be the X axis, and this is over time. And that shows when the rewards introduced.
- [45:27]
C
Right. So what I'm curious about is. Oh, as soon as reward is introduced.
- [45:31]
A
Well, it looks, according to this graph, as soon as the rewards introduced. I find that hard to Believe it's so quick.
- [45:38]
C
I find that way hard to believe.
- [45:39]
B
What does it say? How does it explain the overjustification? Is there something there? Read what that says about the overjust.
- [45:48]
A
So, yeah, it's the introduction of an incentive that has a detrimental effect on an individual's intrinsic motivation to complete a task that they were initially motivated to do alone.
- [45:59]
B
Yeah. So recognizing a kid that likes to draw is different. They'll be like, yeah, man, I really like. I love these drawings that you make. Is different than saying, every time you draw, I'm gonna give you a straw.
- [46:08]
C
Okay. This is actually really interesting considering we just had a. We just did this with our, our leadership team with like, okay. Another way to say this is like, okay, I've got an employee. This is their job. They've been doing their job and tasks for the last nine months. Those things. And then I reward that job. They didn't do anything else outside of it. And then we give them a raise. Wouldn't that cause the same thing?
- [46:34]
B
That's interesting because I wonder if that would apply because there were already getting paid to do what they do, so they're not doing it for free. So I wonder if that makes a difference.
- [46:43]
D
You have to equate to their, their result. Right.
- [46:48]
C
And so this is another. Okay, let's use another example. So this is. Would also imply that I've trained my son to make his bed before he goes to school every day. And he's consistently done it for, let's say, a year of his life. And then all of a sudden I decide I'm going to start paying you $5 for. For, for me.
- [47:04]
B
So here's what it says. The over justification effect can occur almost immediate. Just one or two exposures to an expected tangible reward. The decline in intrinsic motivation is triggered when a person's brain reclassifies an enjoyable activity chore being done strictly for a paycheck or a prize.
- [47:23]
C
Okay, so. Okay, this.
- [47:24]
D
There's the reframe it.
- [47:26]
B
Yeah.
- [47:27]
C
So where. Okay, so that means. That means this. Let's use my son bed making analogy I was giving. That would mean that he's been making his bed for a year on his own. On his own.
- [47:39]
B
Loves doing it.
- [47:40]
C
I decide he. On, on, on, you know, the, the 56th time I start paying him $5 every time. Great job, son. And now. But I start doing it every time. But then I don't do it. Then it.
- [47:52]
B
That's right.
- [47:53]
C
That's why. Because he expects it now.
- [47:54]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:55]
C
Okay. But if I kept doing it, I'm sure he would keep doing it.
- [47:58]
B
I don't know. Because what they showed in the kids study is.
- [48:00]
C
Well, that's. Yeah. Because it looks at one or, one or two exposures. One or two exposures would be the giving.
- [48:04]
B
So scroll down Doug more. So this is the site, this is the experiment that I read. It's leopard green. NISBITS landmark 1973 nursery school study. Researchers documented this shift within a matter of days. Children who already enjoyed drawing were observed after receiving a tangible expected reward for it. And here's how the timeline conditions unfold. So they saw an instant shift in self perception. Individuals learn about their own preferences by observing their own actions. If they notice they're receiving an external reward for a task, they rapidly conclude I must be doing this for the reward rather than I am doing this because I like.
- [48:37]
D
Is this more about art than it is, you know, about like chores?
- [48:42]
B
I think if kids.
- [48:43]
C
Well, this is what, this is what Scott Donald teaches.
- [48:46]
F
Yeah.
- [48:46]
C
Artists he talks about. This is why you don't give allowance for basic chores in the house.
- [48:52]
B
Yeah.
- [48:52]
C
He's like, that should be. That's part of being the unit and the family. You make your bed, you take out the trash.
- [48:57]
D
What you do, it's like.
- [48:58]
C
But then we have other things.
- [48:59]
B
He organizes them as like jobs essentially.
- [49:01]
C
Exactly. So it's like these are chores that you do and you don't get. It's part of being the family you do. We all do this. But if you want to make money, there's opportunities for you to make money. You can babysit your sister for a weekend. You can go wash and detail the car. You can go, you know, break down the cardboard. But whatever. Like he has t. And he's like those you, you create as jobs.
- [49:23]
D
Well, I can, I don't know, I guess I could see this from a different perspective of it being like, you know, an athlete and like you're, you're, you love sports, you love the game. They don't love the game because it becomes a job. But like the same thing with artistry. Like if I'm making music or something, I'm just doing it for that. And then I get paid this exorbitant amount of money for that. All of a sudden then I'm like,
- [49:42]
B
well now I'm just doing this for
- [49:44]
D
somebody to pay me to keep doing this. And then, you know, my, my interest is going to fall off quickly.
- [49:49]
B
Yeah.
- [49:49]
D
With that. But I, I guess like it, like I don't really see it from that other perspective. If I'm, if I'M actually doing hard work. I want to get a reward.
- [49:57]
B
Yeah. But, yeah, I think that's different. Right.
- [49:59]
D
Yeah.
- [49:59]
B
We're already paying them. They're already working for us. Yeah.
- [50:01]
D
So I don't know. I guess I'm just trying to understand.
- [50:03]
C
Yeah, me too. And I'm like, trying to use the example I gave because I get making a bed would be a chore and would be a thing that you could train to do your kid to do without getting paid. And then if all of a sudden I decided to pay him, it would. He would. You would inevitably fall off of doing that.
- [50:16]
B
Yeah, if he's already doing it on his own.
- [50:18]
A
I find it's intrinsic motivation. So I think it's, you know, their desire within to want to do something.
- [50:24]
G
Right.
- [50:24]
C
And so then maybe he does it, but he's now doing it just because he wants the money.
- [50:28]
A
Right. So that desire falling away. So I think that's what's happening with sports and music and things like that.
- [50:35]
B
Yeah. Interesting, right?
- [50:37]
C
I mean, it's interesting because, I mean, it makes me wonder how that does carry over to job and other things like that too.
- [50:43]
D
It's like, seems a little bit different. Yeah.
- [50:45]
C
I mean, kind of. Right. But there's a part of me, I mean, even when, you know, the. The example I'm thinking of right now when. When we did something like this where we. Where we just raise up to raise up. I prefer to, like, attach it to something. Attach it to something. Yeah. Like. Or give a new goal. Like, hey, I want to raise you up. But these are the things I'm looking
- [51:03]
D
for leading up to that point to get there.
- [51:05]
C
Yeah. Versus just like, hey, you've been working for us for a year and doing your job. Here's another X amount of dollars. Because then like, what. What are you rewarding really by doing that? And you're just like. And then they're just literally just doing the same thing to get that. And then you. Then now they'll expect that every year of like, oh, if I just do the same job.
- [51:21]
D
It's almost like the incentive version versus like the ten tenured, you know, like, I expect, like, just because I've been here that long.
- [51:28]
C
Right.
- [51:29]
B
I get paid more.
- [51:29]
D
Yeah.
- [51:30]
C
That's interesting.
- [51:30]
B
Yeah, interesting. So along the same lines, like a psychology stuff, I'm reading this book.
- [51:34]
C
What are you reading?
- [51:35]
B
Validation. It's called Validation. And it talks about the power of essentially validating people when they're coming to you with something or they have an experience, which, by the way, doesn't Mean, you agree with them. It's just you're validating their experience.
- [51:47]
C
Yeah.
- [51:48]
B
The data that's cited in this is pretty remarkable. So when somebody has a difficult situation, stressful situation, validating somebody, essentially validating their experience lowers their fight or flight response. Invalidating them triggers it. So, like, your kid comes to you like, oh, my God, I'm freaking out over this thing.
- [52:10]
C
It's not that big of a deal.
- [52:11]
B
Yes. Oh, who cares? Don't worry about it. Like, get over it type of deal. Worst thing you can do triggers. Yeah, worst thing you do triggers their fight or flight versus validating their experience. What's funny? What's crazy about it? I'm reading the book, and I grew up in a household. We didn't invalidate anything. Everything was invalid. Like, everything was like, get up. You can do it, Whatever. Wipe it off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I grew up that way. But when I trained and coached people, I learned that this was very powerful. Like, when I had clients come to me with challenges, the worst possible thing I could do was invalidate.
- [52:41]
C
Well, I think that. I think when you say this, you have to be very clear, too, because I think somebody will interpret validation of to being like coddling. And it does look different. We do this with my son. It's just like he can have a moment of breakdown and you can validate his feelings, but then also correct his behavior and be like, I know, I know that that felt like it hurt.
- [53:01]
D
And it was this.
- [53:02]
C
But you're going to be okay. Like, this happens when we play rough. You fall down. It was an accident. You're going to be all right.
- [53:07]
B
Yeah.
- [53:08]
C
Like, you can. You can validate their feeling, you know, whatever they're going through, and then turn around and coach right afterwards.
- [53:14]
B
It's like, hey, I can see. Yeah, I can see why that really
- [53:16]
C
bothered you, because I also.
- [53:17]
B
A lot of sense.
- [53:18]
C
I also think that. That somebody can take the validation thing too far worse. That's all you do is validate, and you don't follow it up with the coaching. It can just be like, oh, you poor thing. Oh, my God, that's. Oh, I can't believe that. And there's. That's it. And so then that. Then you also create a victim. You create somebody. Every time something rough happens or anything bad, there's like, you come running up and you're just validating how they feel all the time. And then we have this society of people that want to be validated.
- [53:41]
B
So that's the thing. So there's a confusion, right? Is that validating. Isn't that you agree that. Yeah, I agree with, with, with what's. I agree with you. I agree with your, with your. The fact that you're so upset that, you know, you're, you're. You got a, an A minus on your test and you're freaking out. Like, you don't have to agree with it, but you can say, look, yeah, I could tell you worked really hard, you expected an A. And so that's really disappointing.
- [54:05]
C
Yeah.
- [54:06]
B
And then the conversation.
- [54:07]
C
Right.
- [54:07]
B
But you lower that fight or flight, they feel valid. And then you can have that conversation.
- [54:12]
C
I mean, that conversation, though, has to be equally as important.
- [54:14]
B
Totally.
- [54:15]
C
Because otherwise if you just.
- [54:16]
B
As a parent.
- [54:17]
C
For sure.
- [54:17]
D
Yeah.
- [54:18]
C
Because if you just go and validate feelings all day long about when. Especially when they're wrong.
- [54:22]
D
Yeah. Because then you kind of enforce it.
- [54:24]
C
Yeah. I mean, you're. If they're acting.
- [54:26]
B
But it's different. Validating. Your kid is very different than like your friend or especially your spouse.
- [54:31]
C
Yeah.
- [54:32]
B
Yeah. You know, like the correcting part with this.
- [54:36]
C
Let me tell you, honey, I can
- [54:39]
B
see why you're upset. Let me tell you why you're wrong. Here's why you shouldn't be upset. That's not going to work. That's not the same thing, dude. That works. Anyway, I'm going to take a left and so guess what is available back. Available as a peptide that you can now again get.
- [54:55]
H
What was.
- [54:56]
C
It was off.
- [54:57]
B
MOT C is available again. For a second there, you couldn't, Couldn't for me, couldn't get it. They had put a pause on it. But MOT C, if you like, if
- [55:06]
D
you go back on the menu, you
- [55:07]
B
go through our partners@nphormones.com, you can get MOT C again, which is very exciting because that's one of my favorite favorite pedals.
- [55:15]
C
You and Justin both.
- [55:16]
D
I've been on that a long time.
- [55:17]
B
Oh, it's the best, dude.
- [55:18]
G
Yeah.
- [55:18]
C
You two have always raved about that. Why? Why was it off?
- [55:21]
B
Because the FDA sent letters and scared everybody.
- [55:25]
C
Was that around the same time as the BPC one?
- [55:26]
B
That's right. So BPC you couldn't get for a while. E. Yeah. And now they've kind of made it so that. So you could get. You can now get a prescription again from otc. Get it from an FDA regulated compound pharmacy, and you get the real deal. So MOT C, the nickname exercise in a bottle. And that sounds sensational, but essentially it really does supercharge the mitochondria. So what people get from it is mostly what they get is energy.
- [55:53]
D
Yeah, it's energy.
- [55:54]
B
You feel just really good energy all the time. What it's also doing is helping things like burn body fat. So bodybuilders like Motsi for fat loss because of the increased energy production, the increased metabolic rate. In studies with animals, they'll feed them a high calorie diet and they don't gain as much body fat.
- [56:13]
C
Interesting.
- [56:14]
B
When they take Motsi, increases insulin sensitivity. Really good as well. Interesting. One of my favorite, dude. Is one of the few peptides I took.
- [56:21]
C
I actually haven't taken it.
- [56:22]
B
It was one of the ones I took where by day three, I was like, whoa, dude. I feel like.
- [56:26]
D
I feel like it's hit and miss with people that I've talked to at least. Like, it's like, very awesome for some. And then some are like. I don't even.
- [56:34]
C
I mean, I feel like that's almost everything with peptides.
- [56:36]
B
Yeah. Depends on the peptide. Some people like the SS. I think it's SS31. I think that's what it's called. Doug. Look it up there.
- [56:42]
A
Sloop.
- [56:43]
B
No, no, no. That's totally different.
- [56:44]
D
That's a different.
- [56:45]
B
So I think It's. Is it SS31. Put SS31. Peptide. See if I got that right, because I might be wrong here. Yes. So SS31 also targets the mitochondria, but works differently. People either respond really well to mot C or SS31.
- [56:59]
D
Okay, so that's the alternative.
- [57:00]
B
Because I've done SS31 and I've heard people rave about it, and I've done it. Notice nothing.
- [57:06]
D
Yeah.
- [57:06]
B
MOT C for me.
- [57:07]
D
I haven't tried that one.
- [57:08]
B
It's like a light dimmer. Like, I turned up the light.
- [57:10]
D
Yeah, same.
- [57:12]
C
Interesting. Is it. So is it injectable or is it pill injectable?
- [57:15]
A
Daily.
- [57:16]
B
Yes.
- [57:17]
C
Oh, it's daily.
- [57:17]
B
Yeah.
- [57:17]
C
Yeah, that's why.
- [57:18]
E
That's why.
- [57:21]
F
Yes.
- [57:21]
B
It's a little tiny. That's not what it is.
- [57:24]
C
Yeah, yeah. It's just the habit of doing a daily thing. It was like, it's. That's just another thing.
- [57:30]
B
So you guys want to hear some cool patents that I saw this. This post on? These new patents that just got submitted that for pretty innovative, interesting inventions. I'll read them off to you. Motorola just got a patent for a throat tattoo that works like a microphone.
- [57:50]
A
What?
- [57:50]
B
Yeah, a tattoo that works like a microphone. I'm not sure. I'm just reading you the headline.
- [57:56]
C
Is Motorola still. Are they owned by somebody? Else.
- [57:59]
D
Is that like a rote tattoo?
- [58:00]
C
They realize Motorola is still doing it.
- [58:02]
B
Check this out. Amazon has a patent for a flying warehouse that releases delivery drones. It's happening, you guys.
- [58:10]
C
Oh, I've seen that. I've seen that.
- [58:12]
B
They'll be in the air.
- [58:13]
E
Yeah.
- [58:13]
B
And you're gonna order something and a drone's gonna come down and in 10 minutes you're gonna get your warehouses, bro. Imagine that. 15 minutes you buy.
- [58:21]
C
Boom.
- [58:21]
B
Delivered to you.
- [58:22]
D
We're so close to Wall E, dude.
- [58:24]
C
It's gonna be.
- [58:25]
D
I feel like that was the beginning.
- [58:26]
C
Well, what was they, I thought they, they've tested this and it, and it didn't, it didn't go. Why?
- [58:33]
D
The drone delivery hasn't really taken off yet.
- [58:35]
C
But they've tested it in areas. Yeah, they've tested it in some areas. I don't know why it didn't take off.
- [58:42]
B
I don't know.
- [58:43]
D
But I'm scared to regulate maybe, I
- [58:45]
B
don't know, who knows? But let me see. Because of FAA regulations, noise pollution, privacy concerns.
- [58:51]
C
Oh, that makes sense.
- [58:53]
B
So I, I, I think this is going to be the future. I think it's going to be crazy because Amazon really, I mean, Amazon was crazy, right? You get stuff the next day, which is wild. Like, that's crazy. For those of us who know what it was like before, like, I used to buy stuff.
- [59:06]
C
Oh, you get stuff the same day, bro.
- [59:08]
D
You know you do. You know, we're going to have, because of this, we're going to have freaking flying pirates.
- [59:14]
C
Oh, 100% that's why I won't, Justin. That's why I won't. That's why I won't work.
- [59:20]
D
There's still packages,
- [59:24]
B
motorcycle drones.
- [59:25]
C
Yes, bro, 100% that's going to happen. I mean, if you, the risk, the risk of, of robbing.
- [59:34]
B
I want to make a movie, dude.
- [59:35]
C
The risk of robbing a person is, has, that has to be a major deterrent in comparison to robbing a robot. Like that's not, it's a non human, a drone flying like net at it.
- [59:48]
D
People are going robots like crazy.
- [59:50]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [59:52]
D
Humans are going to.
- [59:53]
C
Now the only, the counter argument to that is I, if you would have asked me if we could go back in time and you know, 40 years or more, because it'd be even longer than that. We have a 40 years or more and say one day every day there'd be all kinds of packages dropped off at people's doors and people wouldn't steal them off their doorstep. Yeah, I wouldn't believe that.
- [60:16]
B
Yeah.
- [60:16]
C
People don't.
- [60:17]
F
Oh, yeah.
- [60:18]
C
I mean, the fact. All the time now, the fact that there's. There's you. Everybody's got a box at their door right now and it doesn't get stolen. So, you know, maybe people won't.
- [60:27]
B
It is crazy.
- [60:27]
C
They'll be. There'll definitely be some pirates originally.
- [60:29]
F
There'll be
- [60:33]
D
pirate active, at least for a while. Like hawks on their shoulders.
- [60:41]
C
Have you seen all those? I. I wonder how many of them are real and how many of them are staged. Those viral videos of people that do steal the boxes off the.
- [60:48]
B
Yeah. People put the bait box.
- [60:50]
C
Yes. And they bait them.
- [60:52]
D
Well now with AI. They've just done so many of those where it explodes.
- [60:55]
H
Yeah.
- [60:55]
C
I don't know if they're real or not.
- [60:56]
B
Those bring me joy. This is really bad. But I get really happy when I see a thief. We get blasted with blue spray.
- [61:02]
C
Is like the worst.
- [61:03]
E
Dude.
- [61:03]
C
It's up. It's up there.
- [61:04]
B
Like it's really annoying me.
- [61:06]
D
Like really Lowest common denominator. Yeah. Thing to do.
- [61:10]
B
It makes. It makes me really mad because.
- [61:11]
C
Yeah. Anyone you guys ever.
- [61:12]
B
So I. Do you guys remember the first time something really valuable of yours?
- [61:16]
C
Yeah.
- [61:16]
B
What was it?
- [61:17]
C
Yeah, it's a car.
- [61:18]
B
Oh.
- [61:20]
C
More than once.
- [61:21]
D
That's a big one.
- [61:22]
G
You know.
- [61:23]
B
Hey, what are the odds? I don't think. I think most people have never had their car stolen, let alone two car stolen.
- [61:29]
G
Yes.
- [61:29]
C
Two cars stolen.
- [61:30]
F
Yeah.
- [61:30]
C
You know, the irony of all that though is the, the. So I had. I had the. The car, the Integra, and then I had my truck stolen. The car being stolen. The thing that broke my heart more than anything was my thousand CD CD case. You know, I had the big four. Four flipper CDs I've been collecting since I was in high school.
- [61:52]
A
Gone.
- [61:52]
C
Gone. That was just like cars replaceable. That collection was not replaceable in my truck because I had a DVD player and stuff inside there. I had at that time. So, you know, my annual trip that we go to the lake all the time.
- [62:06]
G
We.
- [62:07]
C
We would make a short video of us wakeboarding and jumping and doing all this stuff like that. Right. And I had at least three years of DVDs.
- [62:18]
B
Oh, you can't replace that.
- [62:19]
C
Oh, I can't. And my buddy. We still can't find the original stuff of that. So it's just like they're gone. And like. And those were really special to me. Even more so now that I'm older. Like, it was. I loved him when we were close to that now it's like, man, that
- [62:31]
B
was a. I had. The first time I ever experienced it was my bike. I rode my bike to like the local. It was a convenience store. They had a street fighter too there. Remember that? And I was playing it and I look out, check my bike. It's there. Still playing. Still playing. Look out, bike's gone.
- [62:45]
F
Huh?
- [62:46]
B
Bike was gone. And I went to my grandparents house.
- [62:49]
D
Infuriating.
- [62:50]
B
We went to my grandparents house. My grandfather found out. This is a true story. I'll share it. He passed away, so I can share it. And I told my grandfather and he said, what, somebody stole your bike? I said, yeah. He goes, come with me. So I get in the car with him and we're driving around looking for my bike. Here's the, here's the crazy part. Okay, this is the crazy part. He had his Beretta in the car, dude. And I remember thinking this as a kid. This is a true story. I mean, I never even told my mom he had his Beretta in there. And I. In my mind, I'm like, I'm not going to tell him. If I see my bike, is he gonna shoot? No way.
- [63:23]
D
Like some kid, like, yay.
- [63:25]
B
No way, dude. The kid could ride right in front of me. Like, hey, what's up, Sal? Terrified. That was the first time that I snapped. You know what, old Sicilian? You know what you just made justice, bro. The DVDs.
- [63:40]
C
Okay, so Katrina told me we were going through. I shared with you guys that old picture of Katrina and I when we first got together. And because we were going through all these old photos of her and I, one of the other old photos that popped up was the very first kind of thing that we ever did together was I took her snowboarding and taught her how to snowboard.
- [63:56]
B
And.
- [63:57]
C
And there's a picture of her and I doing that. And she goes, you remember that day? And I'm like, yeah, I know. I told. She's like, you were so patient. This and that. She goes, do you remember what you did on the drive all the way up to the thing? And I'm like, no. She's like, you. You had me watch your wakeboarding video.
- [64:14]
B
Oh, look what I do.
- [64:17]
D
You did.
- [64:18]
B
Now you do amazing hour.
- [64:22]
C
Me like doing tricks hour.
- [64:27]
B
She still, she's still stuck with you, dude. Wow, that's a good woman. That was good, bro.
- [64:31]
C
It was kind of cool. Were you turned up music behind it and everything? Oh, yeah, dog.
- [64:37]
E
Oh yeah, dude.
- [64:38]
D
Busted tricks highlight reel.
- [64:39]
C
Oh, dude.
- [64:41]
D
Courtney to watch any of my highlights
- [64:43]
B
from football or Anything.
- [64:45]
C
Anyway, she's tra. She was trapped in the truck the whole time.
- [64:48]
B
That's why she go nowhere.
- [64:49]
D
I should held her hostage.
- [64:51]
B
That's the move. That's the best thing ever. How long were you guys dating at that point?
- [64:56]
C
Oh, we had just. It was the first real, like, thing we ever did.
- [64:59]
B
No way, bro.
- [65:00]
H
Early on.
- [65:01]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm 29. I was 29. She was 30.
- [65:04]
B
See, she's smart because she's probably like, this is ridiculous. But she's also probably thinking, like, he's really confident this is gonna go somewhere. I know his confidence is interesting. We point this in the right direction, we're good.
- [65:16]
D
Yeah, yeah. I'm just gonna have to direct this.
- [65:18]
B
That's awesome. When your system that is meant to guide your health falls short, it becomes necessary to take your health into your own hands. Introducing Element. So Element is an electrolyte powder you add to your water. There's no artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it's got all the sodium you need for better muscle contractions, better performance, to feel better. Here's the deal. A lot of people who work out hard, especially if you're on a low carbohydrate diet or you don't eat processed foods, you need more electrolytes. Maybe you have muscle cramps or you have excess fatigue or headaches. Try Element. It tastes amazing. It's inexpensive. There's no sugar, no sweeteners. It gives you the right amount of electrolytes to fuel you, fuel you for your workouts. Go check them out. Go to drinklement.com mindpump on that link, you'll get a free sample pack of the most popular drink. Mix flavors with any purchase. All right, here comes the show.
- [66:18]
A
Our first caller is Kayla from New York.
- [66:20]
D
Hi, Kayla. Hi, Kayla.
- [66:22]
G
Hi. Wow, this is surreal.
- [66:25]
B
How are you? How can we help you?
- [66:27]
G
I'm good. Thank you for having me. Well, so after listening to your episode that aired on Monday, I switched things up and decided I should just be straightforward and real. I'm turning 40 in February, and I want next year to be the year that I've looked the best I've ever looked. Yes, I want great mobility, functionality and strength, but ultimately, I want to look amazing, but without doing any harm to my hormones or metabolism. For my background, I spent the last eight years being pregnant, birthing, nursing three babies just to start perimenopause. A year postpartum after my third to then have nearly a year of almost daily diarrhea to learn that I had sibo I treated the sibo, started hormone therapy, had a return of the SIBO 8 months later. Then I need to increase my HRT a few months ago and I also had carpal tunnel surgery six months ago. I'm 39 now. I'm a wife and mother to three little girls, 7, 5 and 3. I want to set a good example for them and show them how they need to respect their bodies and take care of their bodies and they already know that we value protein in our house. I used to run to lose weight when I was younger and as a form of punishment therapy, I turned to circuit training to lose weight. That was a bad idea in my early twenties. The circuit training worked, but it doesn't anymore. First world problems, but life has been a roller coaster the last eight years. My husband and I had a rough patch when I hit 37 and my perimenopause came on. Thank God I got the HRT because that poor man may have divorced me otherwise. And my girls were kind of on edge because I was just a raging lunatic. So now I've gotten my digestion to a better place. I still have to steer clear of gluten, sugar and most dairy. But before all this, I was a selfish person and my husband always spoiled me and then the onslaught of babies and how my body changes and all the things that come with the entire life change was really hard for me to accept, but accepting it now has made me a better mom, wife and just person in general. I've got back to my faith and that's helped me a lot. And also your podcast has really been beneficial. Now that I have things pretty well settled, I'd like to focus on getting some self esteem back. Self esteem back and being a bit more selfish for a year. I want to build strength, lean out and look amazing. But I recognize when it's time to push and when it's time to slow down. My busy season for work is mid December through March, so I'd like to do a bulk in the fall months. Do like a 15 program and some light walking during my busy season just to maintain, cut and increase. Do increase some cardio or something to lean out in the spring and burn some fat and then maintain again through the summer months. If that sounds doable. My question is what programs do you think would benefit me the most during these seasons for the upcoming year?
- [69:37]
B
Good question and I'm glad you called in. Sounds like you've been through the ringer.
- [69:42]
G
Well, I mean, what mom hasn't? But such is life. But yeah, it took Me a little while to accept all the chaos that kids bring.
- [69:50]
B
Yeah. Although it may seem common to you, it's very difficult. And I've worked with a lot of women through having children, through the hormone changes and all that can happen, and oftentimes contributing to poor gut issues. And so you just had all of it all at once. Are the gut issues pretty much rectified?
- [70:08]
G
It's not perfect. I unfortunately fell in love with sourdough baking, so that doesn't help me, but as long as I steer clear of that, then yeah, okay.
- [70:21]
B
Okay. So we gotta make sure we maintain that. So maintain good gut health, because that'll throw everything off. Is your HRT stable now? Have you found the right dose? And it's right and everything feels good now?
- [70:33]
G
Yeah, yeah. When I started it last June, I was doing a bulk that fall and my metabolism shot through the roof. And I talked to my ob GYN and she said that it could be that I'm metabolizing things much quicker. So we needed to up my levels a little bit, but I'm pretty good now.
- [70:53]
B
Okay, and you're on. What's part of your hrt? Is it the whole gamut? Are your progesterone, thyroid, testosterone.
- [70:59]
G
No thyroid, progesterone, estrogen and testosterone.
- [71:02]
B
Okay, good.
- [71:03]
C
No thyroid, huh?
- [71:04]
F
No.
- [71:04]
B
So, okay, good. So a good. What you want to focus on right now is traditional strength training, and you want to get stronger. That's going to be the best thing for setting yourself up for the cut later on. Are you tracking your calories? Do you have an idea where you're at with that?
- [71:22]
G
Yeah, my maintenance is around 2000. When I was doing a bulk last fall, I could get up to 27 to 3,3000 calories. And I'm not gonna lie, it was hard to cut from that because I love food.
- [71:36]
B
Yeah.
- [71:38]
G
It's kind of my comfort zone. And plus the sourdough, you know, just throws that out the window.
- [71:43]
B
And when you got up to that, gaining a bunch of weight or are you building muscle and maintaining?
- [71:48]
G
No, I really only. Over the last year, I really only fluctuated. When I was lean in the summer, I was like 125. And when I was bulking at my weight, my highest, I was 135, so.
- [72:00]
B
Oh, that's awesome.
- [72:01]
G
Yeah, I oscillate between that.
- [72:03]
B
No, no, no, that's phenomenal because this is perfect. I mean, you would be somebody that I would really look for a body comp change rather than a hard cut.
- [72:10]
G
Yeah.
- [72:11]
B
You know, so I would put you in A reverse diet. I wouldn't have you climb as high as you did last time and then kind of stay, you know, if you're at 2000ish right now, I'd put you, you know, 24, 25 and just get strong. And what you'll see over time is this nice body composition change that wouldn't require. And you're. What are you sitting at right now, body weight? Are you, are you around the 135 or like 130? Yeah. I mean, if you just did that.
- [72:36]
C
Yeah, you're at a good weight.
- [72:37]
B
You would be good. And you would just see yourself kind of lean out as your body sculpted and you know, Kayla, I gotta tell you, with everything that you're doing, you're a perfect candidate for coaching. To have somebody coach you through the process would be perfect because you've got all the other stuff. Look, and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, managing more things is a lot. You've got kids, it looks like you got a job. You've done all the managing of the SIBO and the hrt. I mean, it would probably benefit you to just offset that and have someone kind of walk you through the process and meet with you on a semi regular basis with nutrition and exercise programming. I don't think you need anything special. I think you're in a great place. I mean, a program like Maps Anabolic or Muscle Mommy, you know, 2,400 calories, I think you'd get great results. But what a coach is going to do is walk you through the kind of reverse diet process, maybe throw in some mini cuts, modify the program so that it's, you know, instead of Maps Muscle Mommy, it's Maps, Kayla. And then just kind of move you through this, you know, maybe six to nine month process where at the end of it you're like, man, I'm. Everything's great and it feels good and my body's working the way I want it to.
- [73:52]
G
Yeah. Okay. I don't know about the cost of a coach at the moment, but that's something I can talk to my husband about. So.
- [73:59]
B
Okay, but that you'd be perfect for that. But I think. How many days a week are you able to work out in the gym?
- [74:06]
G
Well, I've been what I'm what I call lazy exercising at the moment. I pretty much do a 15. Some days I'll double up so that I can have a day off or whatever, but I work out. Like I have a home gym, so I'll go in the basement and I'll Do a couple lifts a day, almost five days a week.
- [74:24]
B
Oh, that's fine.
- [74:25]
C
I like that.
- [74:25]
B
Yeah. How many steps are you taking on a daily basis?
- [74:28]
G
My average for June was 14,000.
- [74:31]
E
Oh, wow.
- [74:32]
B
Kayla, you're kicking butt.
- [74:33]
D
Yeah.
- [74:33]
C
Yeah.
- [74:34]
B
Honestly, don't do anything too aggressive with the cut. I think if you stay the course, especially now, the HRT dialed in, what you're gonna see over the next six months to a year is this really nice, consistent body composition change. The mistake you can make, Kayla, is to try to force it, is to try to push too hard in any direction.
- [74:54]
G
Yeah. I think part of that is what kicked off the Sibo the first time, the 3,000 calories. I was impressed with even myself that I could maintain that. But I think it was too much for my digestion to handle, plus the stress of my busy season.
- [75:11]
B
If you want to try any supplements for gut health, Organifi has a new parasite cleanse that I really, really like, and it seems to be benefiting a lot of all listeners who have kind of reoccurring SIBO issues. So it's natural. It's an easy supplement. You would do, like two cycles of it. But as far as a workout, so here's the deal, and this is the mentality. It's like, man, I dealt with all this stuff. I'm coming out of this cloud that lasts years, and I think my body's starting to work the way I want it to. Now I'm going to slam on the gas. This is a mistake. You don't want to do that. You're going to progress just fine as long as you're consistent. And what you're doing 14,000 steps a day, bring your calories up to 24, 2500. Consistently hit your protein targets. Be consistent with a mass 15 protocol 15, muscle mommy 15 power lift 15 symmetry. Either one of those and just stay consistent. We're going to see, like I said, over six months to the next year is just this nice change in body composition. This nice, consistent change.
- [76:12]
C
And to address kind of your thought process because you were kind of asking about the whole year during certain seasons, this program, then that program, a 15 protocol year round is great for you. The thing that changes is your mindset and intensity in the lifting. So when you're in your. When you're in your busy season and maybe you're not getting as much rest or you're not as dialed on the diet, back off on the intensity. Go through the motions. You go to your workout. You just do your workout. You get your Steps, you walk the day when you're in your less busy season and you're more rested, you're more fed, you feel really good. Push the intensity. This is where I'm trying to get stronger, so I'm going to add more weight to the bar. So that's what it looks like. It looks less like a radical change in the programming that you need to switch up or you need to all sudden start doing all kinds of cardio. No, what it looks like is when you're really, really busy and you got a lot on your plate, your workouts are almost therapeutic. You're going through the motions, You're. You're doing your lifts, but you're not really pushing it. When you are feeling great and you're well rested, and that might look like week to week. It could look like month to month, like, depending on what your, you know, what your seasons look like. But that's how you gauge what you should be doing is like the 15 protocol is perfect for you, but you're. You're manipulating the intensity based off of what's going on in your outside.
- [77:24]
B
You're the only way you can mess this up. Just based off everything you're saying, Kayla, and where you're at. The only way you can mess this up is if you try to rush it. Yeah, that's it. I'm not worried about you not working out. Sounds like you're pretty consistent. You're active daily. Your metabolism is not in a bad place. Hormones are now where they need to be. The only way that Kayla can mess this up is if you try to rush it. So that's the issue. If you don't rush it, you'll get great results. They'll be nice and consistent. If you think you can get results faster by rushing it, you'll be wrong. And that'll move you.
- [77:58]
G
The only reason I mentioned cardio in, like, the springtime to really, like, lean out was because a little while ago, you guys were talking about your HIIT program, and I thought, well, maybe that could kind of jumpstart my cut phase or whatever, but maybe that's just too much for me in this phase.
- [78:17]
C
Well, you're also. You're at such a great place, I wouldn't need to cut you. And I feel this has been a common theme when I've been talking to a lot of our female clients and callers is build into the body you want. Like, you don't need to. You don't need to cut into the body you want. You're at a good Weight for your size, how tall are you? You're at a good weight.
- [78:34]
G
I'm only 5 3, and that's rounding up.
- [78:36]
B
No, you're fine.
- [78:37]
C
Yeah, that's a good. You're.
- [78:38]
B
Oh, my God. Yeah. 130 pounds. You. You stay on this path, your body fat will fall in the low 20s. You'll have sculpt shape, muscle metabolism. Yeah, you're going to be great.
- [78:49]
C
Yeah. You don't need to get. Get smaller. You'll get. You'll get tighter and denser, so your weight will stay the same or maybe go up a little tiny bit. But you'll have the physique you want, and that's with the mentality of building into the body, not kind of burning and leaning out into the body.
- [79:03]
B
If you do anything like hit or cardio or anything like that, that would be for endurance. I would. If you're training for an athletic endeavor, you're like, man, I want some stamina so I can go running with my kids. Or go. That's fine. Go for it. But if you're looking at body composition change and aesthetics. Stay the course. Just stay the course. It's perfect.
- [79:23]
C
Yep.
- [79:25]
G
Awesome.
- [79:25]
B
Yeah. Do you. Which. Which maps 15 programs you have and. Because I'd like to send you another one.
- [79:31]
G
I have muscle, mommy. And symmetry.
- [79:33]
B
Okay, I'll send you powerlift15.
- [79:35]
G
Oh, that sounds awesome. I heard you guys talking about that lately.
- [79:39]
E
Yeah. You're good.
- [79:40]
C
You'll love it.
- [79:40]
B
Yeah.
- [79:41]
C
Cycle through those, Kayla.
- [79:42]
B
That's it.
- [79:43]
G
Perfect. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.
- [79:45]
B
Yeah. Thanks for calling in.
- [79:46]
G
Thanks.
- [79:47]
B
Bye. Bye. We. We. We need to have. I mean, she just brought. She brought up perimenopause and how. How hard that was for her. It is very hard for a lot of women, and it's very hard for a lot of marriages when. When that starts to happen. Yeah. And without education, it can feel like, what the heck is going on?
- [80:04]
E
Yeah.
- [80:05]
B
But it's. Hormone changes are no joke. They are no joke. They will affect you. And without the education around it and what's going on, it could feel like you're losing your mind or like, what the heck's going on?
- [80:15]
C
Oh, I think I've mentioned this once before that, you know, Katrina's mom life coaches a lot of people and a lot of people that are in their late 30s, 40s, and above, and almost always she's. When she's dealing with. When people have got, like, a lot of marital stuff, a lot of hormones, it's like the first thing she sends them, like, you need to go like. Like, go do that first and then we can work on all the other stuff because if that's out of whack and we're trying to fix all this, like. And she says it's always life changing for people.
- [80:43]
A
Our next caller is Robert from South Carolina.
- [80:46]
B
What's up, Robert?
- [80:46]
E
Robert.
- [80:48]
F
Gentlemen. Oh, my goodness. I'm gonna try and stay cool here. Little fanboyish right now, but I'm gonna try and stay focused.
- [80:56]
B
Yeah, man.
- [80:58]
F
Just thank you so much for what y' all do and thank your team for letting me be on here. It's a truly an honor to be able to speak to you guys. You've been an impact in my life for a decade at least.
- [81:10]
G
Wow.
- [81:11]
F
I heard you first on the Ben Greenfield podcast a long time ago.
- [81:14]
C
Long time ago. Wow.
- [81:16]
F
Yeah.
- [81:16]
B
Yeah, dude.
- [81:17]
F
It's been. It's been a cool journey.
- [81:19]
B
Thank you. How can we help you, dude?
- [81:22]
F
So I don't know how far back I need to go in relevancy for. For a little context, but I've taken up the bold challenge of trying to train my wife. I got my. I know, Adam, you can relate here, but I just got my nasm and I talked to Ann on the school and she. She was amazing. I talked to her like, 15 minutes, and I signed up for the. For Yalls Academy Academy course.
- [81:51]
B
All right, awesome.
- [81:52]
C
Welcome.
- [81:54]
F
It's been. Thank you. It's been. It's been incredible.
- [81:56]
C
Cool.
- [81:56]
F
Lot a lot of stuff in there that I don't know how I would have approached it. So it's good to have a guide and a lot of stuff that challenges me as a person because I'm not the salesy person, as you mentioned. All that, like, a lot in that course. Like, these are things that typically trainers struggle with. And I am right there.
- [82:14]
C
Yeah, right on.
- [82:15]
F
So I appreciate that.
- [82:16]
C
Good stuff.
- [82:18]
F
So. But my current call, again, trying to stay focused. I'm trying to figure out how to best support my wife. We actually met at a planet Fitness at 5am like 5 or so years ago. So fitness is kind of in. In our relationship from the beginning, but she. She has been dealing with. And we found this through functional. Some functional medicine stuff testing. Her cortisol levels are just tanked out. She's got like the midday crashes. She's got the migraines that come on, like, a lot. And I had tried to start her off with like, map starter. She did great. She was fine with that. Try to do the muscle mommy with her. It was kind of. She. She likes to do something every day. So I was like all right let's try the maps 15, let's try and see what we do there. But she still gets those like hard crashes midday. So I used your little Dexa AI to see get Yalls advice on how to approach that scenario. And it's like scale way back because you don't want to I guess push weight on her so much you don't want her to stress her physiological system there and burn her out. So I didn't know whether I should be going all the way back to. Let's just do movement based stuff prime Matt's prime level, like that kind of thing or if I can keep pushing her weight wise. She really wants to grow in strength so I kind of struggle with how to balance that starter.
- [83:54]
B
Good questions Robert. What's the protocol that the functional medicine practitioner has her on right now?
- [84:01]
F
Well she's using a lot of supplement based stuff. I don't know if you know like what ADR is. And there's another. It's like a, it's like a mixture of different ayurvedic stuff just to kind of give her adrenal gland some support.
- [84:20]
B
Okay.
- [84:20]
F
Especially in the morning. But nothing. She hasn't really addressed the lifestyle part of it which again is like a lot of keep stress low. We have a five and two year old by the way. Another thing that you and I relate on your story about your kids is excellent. But yeah. So that, that's hard to take that stress out of it, you know. So that. Does that answer your question at all? Yeah, I don't know if I did
- [84:46]
B
and so I'm asleep. Is her sleep okay?
- [84:48]
D
Sleep routines.
- [84:50]
F
Sleep it.
- [84:51]
G
We.
- [84:51]
F
We try to be in bed by like 8 o'.
- [84:53]
G
Clock.
- [84:54]
F
It usually ends up being 9:30 but it's pretty solid. She has various nights of bad sleep but. But she mostly gets some pretty solid sleep in there.
- [85:06]
B
Okay. Because that would be number one. Would be sleep. Diet would be number two. I'm assuming she's avoiding caffeine and alcohol during this period.
- [85:16]
F
Yeah, hasn't done those in a long time.
- [85:18]
H
Okay, good.
- [85:19]
F
I push her a lot on creatine. I don't know if that's helpful.
- [85:22]
B
No, that'd be very helpful.
- [85:24]
F
Okay.
- [85:24]
B
Yeah, no, no. Creatine would be very helpful as far as extra. So here's the deal. If she's still dealing with HPA axis dysfunction. Right. If her cortisol still bottomed out, you have to be very careful with added stress.
- [85:38]
C
Did you go like starter?
- [85:39]
B
Yeah. I mean Starter might be okay. Even maps 15 would be okay, but it'd be low intensity. Yeah, it'd be low intensity. Yeah. And the idea is starter. Yeah. I'm going to get your. I'm going to have you perfect your technique and your intensity is 60%. And if she gets stronger, great. If she doesn't, that's fine, too. We're just. If she doesn't get the hormone, if she doesn't get the cortisol back to normal, if she doesn't get her hypothalamus or pituitary and her adrenals back to normal, nothing's gonna happen with the strength training. So that's the number one priority. Number one priority is that whatever gets that better is what we're gonna focus on. And so the strength training is really. This is how I would do it, what makes her feel better throughout the day. And so it's probably gonna look like is low intensity, perfected technique doesn't even feel like a workout. And she's gonna do a little every day, and that's it. Because what'll happen is you push it a little bit, she's gonna get more energy. Crashes, bands.
- [86:39]
F
Yeah.
- [86:40]
B
And so that's it. And it might take, you know, HPA axis dysfunction can sometimes take a while, can sometimes take 90 days or longer to get things moving back to where they should. How, if you don't mind me asking, how old is your wife?
- [86:55]
F
Gosh, 38.
- [86:56]
B
Okay.
- [86:57]
F
I'm four. I'm turning 40. So she's 38.
- [86:59]
B
Yeah.
- [86:59]
C
You better get that. Right. Yeah, we'll edit that for you. Robert.
- [87:06]
E
Yeah.
- [87:08]
B
Has she had other hormones? I'm sure. I'm assuming she's had her thyroid checked and progesterone, estrogen, all that. She did a Dutch test?
- [87:15]
F
Yeah, she had a Dutch test. Thyroid seems to be doing well, and. And the hormones are crazy off, and we think that's from the adrenals being off. Could be a lot of that hooks together.
- [87:28]
B
How long has she been doing the protocol with the functional medicine practitioner?
- [87:32]
F
About a month. We actually checked in with him earlier today.
- [87:38]
B
I'd give it another month or two and see what happens. She's also 38 and perimenopause and having two little kids can kind of start. Start, you know, causing some issues. So, you know, I would say if after a month or two, you're not seeing huge improvements, then hormone replacement therapy would be another option, you know, and you could send the blood work to nphormones.com the doctors there, and have them look but of, you know, of course, let's see if things balance out without having to do that.
- [88:08]
F
Do you know if they're inside? I've been actually looking for them from me personally. Do you know if they're in South Carolina yet? I think they were one of the states.
- [88:14]
B
I believe so.
- [88:15]
C
South Carolina was one of the ones.
- [88:16]
A
They weren't.
- [88:17]
C
They were. I know he was working on it,
- [88:19]
D
though, so just got into Hawaii.
- [88:20]
F
Okay.
- [88:21]
C
Yeah, they're working on it and they might be now.
- [88:23]
B
Yeah, I would check. Check with them and see if they are. Yeah. And see if they're in there now. But that would be the other thing. I was. Just. Because of her age. Right. Because she's at the right, you know, mid to late 30s, perimenopause starts to kick in. And that can make this.
- [88:37]
C
Do you.
- [88:38]
B
Much more difficult.
- [88:38]
C
You guys happen to use like a Oura ring or anything that measures and tracks sleep?
- [88:44]
F
We don't have an Oura ring. She has a very kind of basic fitness watch, but it does track sleep. I didn't even think to look at
- [88:53]
C
that I would invest in an Oura ring just because. Just because sleep is such a priority. Of all the things that we're talking about, it's probably the top of all the things that we're talking about right now. And even though you're saying, like, she gets pretty good sleep, measuring it and then also playing with. With habits and routines to improve it. Yeah. So that you're like, hey, I noticed that when we have that chamomile tea and we do this and do that, you get these 80 plus scores. And when we don't, you get set so you have a measurable thing. When you play with different things to improve sleep, you know that you can start to improve the habits that encourage, you know, better and better sleep scores. I think that can be extremely valuable. That's how I use mine. I mean, I use mostly mine for steps and then my sleep. That's the only two things I use it for. I don't care about the calorie. I just want to know, am I hitting my daily activity? And then I want to see my sleep score because I'm constantly doing different things and I'm like, oh, man, when I do that one thing, if I eat after eight, boy, does that really impact me negatively and stuff, you know, Think some things are obvious, some things are not obvious. Everyone's unique and different. Certain things hurt. Some people can have a drink before bed and be fine. Other people have a drink before bed and it'll screw them up. So, so having something like that, that's a, A measurable thing that she can pay attention to, I think is worth the investment.
- [90:10]
B
Yeah. But as far as.
- [90:11]
F
Yeah. Do you mind? Go ahead.
- [90:12]
B
I was gonna say, as far as a workout is concerned, maps. 15 or starter would be. That would be where she would live.
- [90:17]
C
Yeah.
- [90:17]
B
For a while. And then. Has she started the creatine?
- [90:21]
F
Yeah.
- [90:22]
D
Yeah.
- [90:22]
F
I, I, I'm the one who dumps it in her drink in the morning. And the other thing that. The temple. We got the temple. Electrolytes. And then I sneak in and dump the creatine in.
- [90:32]
B
Good.
- [90:33]
F
When she's not looking.
- [90:34]
B
Yeah. I would go five grams three times a day, so breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I'd have her try 15 grams a day to see if that makes a difference with her energy.
- [90:41]
D
Yeah.
- [90:42]
F
Yeah. Okay. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I only did five in the morning, so adding the extra. Because I do remember you talking about the test where the 15 actually is.
- [90:51]
C
That's where the cognitive benefits kick in.
- [90:52]
B
Yeah, that's for the cognitive benefits. And if she's operating at a deficit,
- [90:55]
D
her stomach can heal.
- [90:56]
B
Handle it. Yeah, yeah. You don't, you don't want to take all 15 at once. That's what Justin said. Because that could cause gastro issues. You know, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, 5 grams. And within a week, if it's, if it's something that'll help her, you'll know. She'll know. She'll be like, oh, my God, I feel good. And that's pretty much it. But the workout is like, let's perfect the technique. That's it for now. We're just going to practice the technique, and that's it.
- [91:20]
F
Which is something I, as a aspiring trainer, I've learned that I am way deficient in, like, technique. I've gone back now through the videos. Y' all put it up. Thank you. Of, like, the cues y' all use, like, push the door close with your butt. Like the, you know, let the weights slide up, crushing, those kind of things. Like, oh, okay. That's how I can get her to not just, you know, feel it in your back. What does that mean?
- [91:44]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [91:46]
F
So that's been helpful.
- [91:47]
B
Yeah.
- [91:48]
D
Cool.
- [91:49]
F
Okay.
- [91:49]
B
Do you have both of those programs? Do you have. I know you have starter. Do you have 15?
- [91:54]
F
I do, I do. That's actually what I use.
- [91:56]
B
Oh, good.
- [91:57]
F
I love that program. It's. It's so nice to be able to do something every day and not feel like I'm overdoing or underdoing it. So it's been really nice, and I can do it in my garage, so.
- [92:05]
B
Perfect.
- [92:06]
F
That helps.
- [92:06]
B
Yeah, Perfect.
- [92:07]
F
Yeah.
- [92:07]
B
That's it, my friend.
- [92:09]
F
All right.
- [92:09]
C
Keep us.
- [92:10]
F
Can I. Can I say.
- [92:11]
C
Yeah, go ahead.
- [92:11]
F
One thing, one thing.
- [92:13]
C
Yeah.
- [92:14]
F
Before I go, I. I've been playing, Sal. I don't know, it was like a year, two years ago, I guess now. When you went to a Brandon Lake concert? Yeah, I've been playing that all around here in Charleston because I play at one of the satellite campuses where Brandon Lake started from.
- [92:31]
B
Oh, wow.
- [92:31]
F
And your. Your description of the. It's something different. It's not like the. Like the. The crowd effect. There's something different. I'm like, yes, yes, yes. Somebody knows what I'm talking about. So it's been really great. I wish I had your speaking ability of sharing your testimony.
- [92:48]
B
Thank you.
- [92:50]
F
What a gift. So it's been really cool.
- [92:51]
B
Yeah. I appreciate it, man. Thanks, dude.
- [92:54]
F
But thank you again for having me on. That was incredible advice. Thank you.
- [92:58]
B
You got it, brother.
- [92:59]
D
Yeah.
- [92:59]
B
Let us know what happens, okay?
- [93:00]
F
Yeah, I will. Thank you.
- [93:02]
B
All right, Robert, Take it easy.
- [93:03]
D
All right.
- [93:04]
F
All right. See ya.
- [93:06]
B
Do you know how crappy that is when your cortisol is flat?
- [93:09]
C
Well, that's why I mentioned the sleep becomes the number one priority. Almost certain she go HRT route, so.
- [93:17]
B
Because of her age. But, you know, back in the day when I used to work, when I had my studio, I had a woman in there that was really good. She did hormone testing, all that stuff, and she did not do hrt. She was not a doctor in that sense. And she had a lot of success with working with clients with HPA axis dysfunction. The reason why it sucks so bad is it can take a while. It could take three months, sometimes six months.
- [93:39]
D
Yeah.
- [93:39]
B
And it sucks that you feel like you're doing nothing. It's like, man, you're telling me to, like, rest and, like, walk and, you know, I'm doing one exercise. Like, it sucks, but it can take a while and it's. And it feels like crap, bro. It feels like you're dead.
- [93:52]
D
Yeah.
- [93:52]
B
Like, no cortisol is dead. No energy all day long.
- [93:55]
A
Our next caller is Aiden from Kansas.
- [93:58]
B
Hey, dude, welcome back.
- [93:58]
C
How you doing, Aiden?
- [93:59]
E
What's happening?
- [94:00]
H
Hey, good. How you guys doing?
- [94:01]
C
Good.
- [94:01]
B
Good, man. So give us an update. Last time we talked, I believed you had like a. You had an asymmetry going on, some weakness on one side after an injury, trying to balance it back out.
- [94:13]
H
Yeah. So, you know, we ran through a bunch of different ideas on what it could be. And we really weren't sure for a while, so I just said, screw it. I got the mri, so I'll read my update for you guys. So I did run map symmetry you guys sent over. That was great. I do feel like that helped out. Helped kind of correct my form a little bit too, because I was having some issues, like with the delt wanting to take over a little bit and just not getting, like, full activation of the chest. After our last call, I got an mri. The big finding was I do have. So I have some pretty bad stenosis in the C6, C7 vertebrae. So they said it's actually caused by a little bit of bone spurring going on. And so the only real solution is just pt, maybe looking into some other ways to, you know, get the inflammation down a little bit. Surgery. I definitely. I don't want to do that if I don't have to do that. I. I don't know. I still think there had to be some kind of post viral component that kind of caused all of this because the timing was crazy. Like, pretty much started right after I was, you know, dead ill for about five weeks, I think. Over the past, you know, few weeks, though, it seems like things have kind of calmed down a little bit. So I'm not getting as many, you know, zaps, tingles, you know, that weirdness going on. My biggest questions are just kind of, you know, where to go from here, because I feel pretty good. I want to, you know, progress towards getting back to, you know, heavy lifting. I kind of. I miss being able to, you know, be intense with exercise. I feel like it's kind of. It was an outlet for me, especially, you know, like, heavy lifting. Deadlift, squat, bench, all that stuff. And I just have been avoiding it for so long. I want to kind of figure out what my path is to get back to it.
- [96:02]
B
Yeah, man. So actually not bad news, because I remember you had mono, if I'm not. If I recall. Okay. And we were a little worried that there might be something going on, that it was connected to it. Do you know how bad the stenosis was?
- [96:16]
H
They said moderate to severe, but like I said, I'm not really having severe symptoms or anything right now.
- [96:22]
B
I would stay. Let's stay in symmetry. I don't think we should go heavy just yet. If you're still feeling the zaps and the tingles here and there. Are you on? Because I'm going to recommend a supplement for you for inflammation that can help. If the inflammation. If bringing inflammation down helps then the supplement I'm going to recommend should make a difference. But I want to make sure you're not on any blood thinners or any medications that. Okay, so bromelain, cheap supplement. Take it on an empty stomach two or three times a day. Don't take it with food, otherwise it just is an enzyme to break down food. So take it first thing in the morning, 30 minutes to an hour before you eat. Take it in between breakfast and lunch again in between lunch and dinner. And after a week or two, see if it makes a difference with the inflammation. Stay in symmetry. I would stay in symmetry until you're like man, I think feel like everything's okay. Then move to the heavy lifting because if the stenosis is indeed the issue, what we don't want to do is caused that to flare back up.
- [97:23]
C
I, I have a recommendation for you too. Just, just because I've been kind of going through similar type of stuff, inflammation related and myself personally and how I feel currently right now based off what I just did, you know, going on a kind of a low calorie cut for a little bit and, and just kind of leaning out and stay low for a little bit and see how much that just brings down systemic inflammation in your body and then seeing how good you feel when you go lift for in that state. Now here's the drawback of that. I'm. I'm nowhere near as strong on my squats and deadlifts in this calorie deficit and down 10 pounds than thicker fed me is. But I feel way better in my lifts and obviously that means more to me than, you know, hitting some PR or whatever like that. I mean I feel strong, I feel good even though I don't feel, I feel strong for right now and not relative to what I've been. And so that's the hard part is a guy that's lifted heavyweight before is doing what I'm doing is like I can't focus on what I've done before. I just have to go off of how I feel now. But I can't tell you how good I feel right now from kind of going on that. And so maybe consider that for a few weeks and just to play and see how just leaning out and being low calorie for a while to just kind of bring the entire inflammation down in your body. If you are anything like me, where you just kind of might have this kind of mild low level systemic inflammation always going on and bringing that down just makes you feel way better. Okay, that's been My personal experience right now and. And notice that. But again, the tough part for someone like you is the same thing for me, which is, you know, like, putting on kind of weight. For me, on the. On the squat, like, messes with my head psychologically, but I feel really good when I'm moving the weight, you know?
- [99:12]
H
Right. Okay. So, yeah, no, I can give that a shot.
- [99:15]
C
Cool.
- [99:16]
H
What would you say, like, what would be a good metric to kind of know, like, when you think, like, when would everything be good enough to go back to trying to push it a little bit? Like, how long would you say to
- [99:25]
B
give that it would all be based on your symptoms. So no more tingles, zaps. Everything feels balanced. I think I'm good. I'm not having any of those symptoms anymore. Then you can start playing with. With, you know, challenging the weight with the bilateral exercises. But I would wait, because if there's still some impingement going on, however minor, pushing the weight heavy, especially with things like squats, you know, exacerbated C7, or, I mean, you could potentially cause it to go backwards again. So that. That would pretty much be that. That's basically it. It's like when you feel like. And it sounds like you're coming out, sounds like it's already reducing, so you're already on the right path.
- [100:05]
G
Right.
- [100:05]
H
Okay. Yeah, no, that sounds good. Just have kind of just been confused on where to go from here. Had so many different, you know, theories on what could possibly be going on. So I'm kind of glad to finally have some.
- [100:18]
B
But bromelain.
- [100:19]
H
Concrete evidence.
- [100:20]
B
Yeah. Do the bromelain, like I said, two or three times a day on an empty stomach. Within a week, you should notice just reduced inflammation. It's actually quite effective.
- [100:28]
H
Okay. Yeah. Now I can definitely give that stuff a shot.
- [100:31]
B
You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, dude.
- [100:33]
H
All right.
- [100:33]
F
Yeah.
- [100:34]
H
I appreciate it, guys. Thank you so much.
- [100:36]
B
You guys remember his call? Yeah. First time.
- [100:38]
E
Yeah.
- [100:38]
C
Because we weren't sure what it was.
- [100:39]
B
So here's the thing. Yeah. Here's the thing. With stenosis, it's not uncommon.
- [100:44]
C
No. I've had clients go completely. This is why I brought up the. The systemic inflammation thing, because I think I noticed a big difference with clients, that when they're inflamed, they're like that versus when that's all tamped down, then it's not bothering very much. As soon as they get a little inflamed from either stress, overeating, things like that, then it all kicks up.
- [101:01]
B
Yeah.
- [101:01]
C
So physical therapy, posture, movement Stuff, of course, symmetry type things. That's all going to make it better and then keeping inflammation down. I think will, will help.
- [101:10]
B
And I still, I still, I still veer towards the, you know, the viral impact because it happened after he had this really, really bad illness. Yeah. With mono, which can influence, it can affect the nervous system. It's. But he's getting better, which is good. Just takes a little time.
- [101:25]
A
Our next caller is Clark from Oklahoma.
- [101:27]
B
How's it going, Clark?
- [101:27]
C
How you doing, Clark? What's happening guys?
- [101:29]
E
How's it going?
- [101:30]
B
Good. How can we help you?
- [101:32]
E
Thanks for taking my call today. I really appreciate it. This is pretty neat. I sent you guys a novel in my email, so I'm gonna sum it up a little bit and give you guys just the details. So I'm, I'm a pretty average guy here. I'm 6, 1 2, 40, 32 years old. I'm a landscape architect and pole builder out here and I'm in the field quite a bit. But my average step count on a daily basis is about 9,000 and I'm out probably 12, 15 hours a day. But a little bit of background. I lost 135 pounds when I was a 17 year old. I did that in about six months by doing a lot of cardio in the HIIT program. Insanity. I don't know if you remember that one, but of course we do. Um, I was doing like 45 minutes on the elliptical and 3 or 4 miles walking, 7 to 10 miles riding a bike and then going home and doing that. And it was, yeah, it was a lot. So I was prioritizing protein. But at the end of the day I lost a lot of muscle, a lot of, a lot of fat. And I felt really good, but realized I'd done it wrong and just kind of hung on to that weight as best I could by just staying in the deficit as much as I could. But then when I got to 2022, you know, throughout the years, I lost 40 plus pounds on, on five different occasions. And at this particular moment I'm looking at that sixth time and. But when I was in 2022, I got serious about lifting weights, got on a sarm stack and then I had a buddy that convinced me to start testosterone and eventually a little bit of MPP there and yeah, just kind of felt like a moron for doing that. Didn't like how it made me feel. And so I stopped doing that. And now at this particular moment I'm out of the relationship. I was when I was doing all that and haven't been in the gym. My living circumstances are a little unorthodox and just kind of lost on what to do at this point with working so much. And yeah, things have changed from those macros that I sent you. Right now I'm kind of at. I'm about 2,600 calories a day, 220 grams protein, 181 grams of carbs, and about 80 grams of fat. I do take 10 to 15 milligrams creatine, 1200 milligrams fish oil, 2000 IUs, vitamin D. That's about all I can really keep up with alongside multivitamin. But yeah, I'm just kind of at a loss. My main question was, is Maps 15 my answer with a reverse diet or what do y' all think?
- [104:12]
C
I do like that.
- [104:13]
B
Yeah, dude, I do like that. Are you doing a lot of other
- [104:15]
C
things pretty well right now?
- [104:16]
B
Yeah. Let me back. I'm gonna back you up a little bit. Well, first I wanna ask you, so how long were you on the, the, the ped cycle? How long did you do testosterone MPP for?
- [104:25]
E
So testosterone, about two years. MPP was only about two months and I was only doing 10 milligrams a week on that.
- [104:32]
B
Okay. Did you, have you had your testosterone levels checked recently just to see if you had any, any long term effects?
- [104:38]
E
So I'm actually waiting on Vita Bella to get back to me. We did a draw two weeks ago, so I'm waiting on my results and a protocol.
- [104:45]
B
Okay, good. Okay, good. You got that covered then?
- [104:47]
F
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [104:48]
B
Cause sometimes that can affect not all. What. Usually it doesn't, but. But sometimes it can affect testosterone levels a little later. So I'd want to see what that looks like. So cool. So you're already on that, so I'm going to ask you what, what, what was it about? Because you've lost weight and gained it back. You said like four or five times.
- [105:04]
G
Yeah.
- [105:05]
B
What happens when you gain it back? Are you at a point where, like, I'm done with this. This is too much. Is it just, you know, I'm tired of. Go ahead.
- [105:13]
E
I think I just kind of fall off. Like, discipline is not the issue. I can get pretty locked in and stay on, but things just seem to change so often and I'm just having a hard time keeping up with that and sticking to whatever protocol I was on at that time.
- [105:30]
C
But also seemed very all or nothing.
- [105:32]
B
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
- [105:33]
C
Seem very d. You seem like the person who's like dialed, doing all the things, taking the supplements, training hard, and then you swing the other way pretty hard.
- [105:42]
E
Yeah, trying to. And at this point, at 32, I'm trying to get rid of that all in or all out mentality and just try to have something that's more manageable. Honestly.
- [105:52]
C
That's why I like the 15 recommendation.
- [105:54]
B
The way to fix that is not to look at the out side of it. So typically what happens when people do that, which is real common. Dude, this is like, like, it's like most people when they go through the cycle is they focus on why they stopped and they're like, man, I got to just. If I could just not do the thing where I jump off the wagon, I'm good. But what they don't realize is the all in is what causes the all out. Yeah, okay, so that's the beginning of this, the beginning of getting you not to stop. The all out part is to solve the all in part. And so the all in part has got to look like something that's very sustainable long term term. I'm not rushing things, you know, I'm just the guy that works out. I'm just a guy that eats healthy and whatever happens, happens. Kind of the attitude that you got
- [106:39]
C
to have with it both on the, both on the lifting part and the nutritional level.
- [106:43]
B
Right.
- [106:43]
C
So I like, whenever, whenever, you know, I'm like, not my ideal eating. And I've allowed drinks and ice cream to come in, which I allow those to ebb and flow in my diet. And I know that I don't go anymore from like the guy who was having, you know, handful of whiskey glasses and, and scoops of ice cream through the week to all of a sudden like dialed. Weighing my food, measuring every. It's like, I'm gonna stop the whiskey drinking. You know what I'm saying? And it's like now I'm only gonna let myself have ice cream once every couple weeks. It's like just instead of going one hard swing the other way, like to assess your, your eating habit. You're good on protein, which is, that's the main thing we always focus on. Try your best to always eat whole foods. You probably have a couple offenders in there. Like everybody does that. You have either a sweet tooth youth or you like the. Whatever the stuff, whatever it is, right. And, and, and, and make a commitment to less of this or no more of that, but don't do it all right away because you're all said motivated right now and just stack on that and, and like, oh, Man, I haven't had it. I haven't had a drink in months now. Okay, cool. That's no longer part of my life. Now let's try the next level. I'm gonna get better about doing this thing right. Like, do that both with the way you train and the way you eat, and that will really help with the real hard swings on and off.
- [107:54]
B
Yeah. Now, Clark, because of your activity, because you're pretty active with your job and the history with us, I definitely would like to reverse diet you with strength training. But I know because of your past, you're probably apprehensive because you've been overweight in the past, and that can be a real fear. Is that resonating? Do you feel a little bit like, oh, man, if I reverse that, I'm a little worried?
- [108:16]
E
Yeah. A lot of that hesitation and a lot of the all in motivation is just from having severe body dysmorphia. I mean, I grew up a big kid. I've always had high endurance, high stamina. I've been landscaping since I was 10. So it's just. Yeah, that's the hindrance there is just wanting to feel good and look good and going all in and then getting burnt out or just kind of falling off.
- [108:39]
B
Okay.
- [108:39]
E
With too many changes. And to. To your point, Adam, I. I just. I gave up drinking pretty recently. Probably within the last month or so in THC as well. Good for you. Appreciate that. I also bought a cafe. So I'm kind of. I'm around sweet tooth food all the time and good drinks, and so that's.
- [109:01]
C
That resonates.
- [109:01]
E
That's been fun to manage.
- [109:02]
B
Yeah.
- [109:03]
C
Well, so that's a perfect example. Right. You're around so much of that, and it probably when you're off, you allow it all to come in like crazy. And then when you're on, you restrict completely. Like, don't let it look like that look like, like all. Like I'm. I'm like, comparing myself, like, kind of week over week, and it's like, hey, this week I want to be a little bit better than I was last week week. Diet wise and training wise, it's like, not. I'm not gonna go from. I was. I'm way off the wagon. Now I'm dialed. It's like, and I was that guy. And that caused these swings back and forth where now I never. I never get too out of bounds. You know what I'm saying? Like, and it's because I don't. I don't go so hard in either direction. And so I think that'll really help is just make those small.
- [109:41]
B
Clark, I like where you're at. I like the, that you, you've stopped the THC and the alcohol. I like your approach. Not that you need to like, not that, oh, I'm so glad you stopped doing those things, but rather it sounds like you're trying the right steps to move in the right direction. You mentioned the body dysmorphia. I'm so glad you were honest with about that because that's a difficult one to work through. How, how bad do you want to solve this? Forever. In other words, is this something like you look, yeah, I want to get good results, but I just don't want to deal with this anymore. I don't want to do the up and down.
- [110:09]
E
Like how I don't want to deal with it.
- [110:11]
B
Okay.
- [110:11]
E
It's, it, it's exhausting. I mean it's been my entire life. So yeah, I just want to get it manageable and just feel good, be healthy and, and going to this next stage of my life trying to grow this cafe. Clark, Healthy.
- [110:24]
B
Clark, nine months to a year of working with a coach. We'll do that with you.
- [110:28]
C
Oh yeah, I'd love to see that.
- [110:29]
B
Like, you're in the perfect place. It would be a good nine months, maybe a year of working with someone on a monthly basis, having them guide you through. You're gonna have ups and downs, guarantee it. But to have somebody there guide you that you can go with that you can message it's gonna pull you back, push you, kind of help you stay accountable. Also prevent you from doing the all in thing. That tends to cause the all out out on the other end. Yeah, that plus your, you know, you're getting your hormones checked, which would be great. See where that's at. This is the perfect time to do it. If that's something you want, I can have somebody call you, but I, I think you're looking about nine months to a year of just kind of working with someone monthly. And then you'll solve it.
- [111:05]
C
Dude, change your life forever.
- [111:06]
E
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I absolutely agree with that and I'm thinking about that pretty much constantly. I actually just yesterday learned that my landscaping and pool building career is going to come to an end pretty soon. So on a financial side of things, a coach is probably not going to be as easy for me to do at this point. But I do have the NASM training course, so I was going to dive into that and just try to self teach as much as I possibly could and talk to my friends who are in the health space and see if they could help me out, holding me accountable.
- [111:40]
B
So that's good. It's different. Okay. Coaching is different. It's very individualized. I don't, we don't talk about this on the show, but we have something called concierge coaching which is far, it's a much, much less of an investment and you're meeting with someone monthly and it is a, it is a mind pump coach and they are guiding you through the process. But this is kind of like when it strike when the iron's hot. Like you've got these big life changes. It's momentum based. This would be the time to do something like that and you wouldn't have to deal with it later on. But like I said, if that's something you look at it, I guess someone call you, talk with them, them. But I do, I would love that.
- [112:15]
E
I appreciate it.
- [112:15]
B
Okay, I'll have someone reach out to you. But I do like a reverse diet for you. Yeah, I do like a map 15 protocol. I think it's going to be kind of this like stay consistent type of deal. Not rush the process too much and then, and then, you know, be able to prevent those, those setbacks. And like I said, you're looking at about nine months to a year of kind of working on this before it starts to be in a good spot.
- [112:34]
C
Dude, we can solve this right now and then it'll be forever.
- [112:37]
E
So that's encouraging. I appreciate that.
- [112:39]
G
Yeah.
- [112:40]
E
And I, I, I do wind up at the gym most days just to take a shower. So 15 minutes to, to, you know, bust something out. It's not a big deal.
- [112:48]
B
Perfect.
- [112:49]
E
Just know, just knowing what that is and is the big part. But I mean, as far as a reverse diet goes, I mean, where do you guys think I should be at calorie wise if I'm doing all this activity? I mean 2600-2800 seems to keep me pretty energetic throughout the day. But I definitely do fall off at a certain point.
- [113:08]
C
Yeah, you eventually should be able to get up over 3,000. You should be all the way up to 32, 3500. But we incrementally get up there.
- [113:15]
B
That's right.
- [113:15]
C
And so the goal would look like you know, 2 to 2 to 400 calorie bump and then you hang, stay there for a while. Weight should stay about the same on the scale. You should feel good strength, everything like that. Once that's been stabilized for a week or two, go up another two or 400. And just keep doing that incrementally, you know.
- [113:33]
E
Okay.
- [113:33]
C
And. And easiest way to do that I like to do is either two more ounces of the meat that I'm already eating or adding one more small meal, whichever one's more convenient. People tend to do better, in my opinion, with just adding a larger portion of the. The meat they're having or a fattier cut. If you're somebody who was eating chicken breast, I go to chicken thighs. If you're somebody who is eating a, you know, leaner steak, enjoy a ribeye. You know, those are easy ways to get an additional, you know, 2 to 400 calories.
- [114:00]
E
That's right.
- [114:01]
C
Or you can add.
- [114:02]
E
I definitely do the. I definitely do the chicken thigh after I heard you preach about that. It tastes so much better. Mind doing that?
- [114:11]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [114:13]
E
And Chuck roast is my go to, just because it's easy to get a hold of and. But, yeah, no, that's. Yeah, good point. I mean, three meals is pretty easy for me to manage. It's hard to do any more than that. Even when I was doing, like, my testosterone and NPV, that was. I mean, I was at about, like, 3, 500 calories, and I was like, oh, my God, I can't eat anymore. So. Yeah, good.
- [114:33]
B
Yeah. Yeah, that's it, man. You'll get somebody. You'll get body comp change through that process. So you'll kind of get leaner, build a little muscle. No big swings on the scales, what
- [114:41]
C
it's going to feel. And I saw. I saw your numbers before. You're a strong guy, so, like, you. You lift, like you hit those lifts like that, and you stay strong and 15, and you feed yourself appropriately, you'll have body comp change.
- [114:51]
G
Yeah.
- [114:52]
C
Yeah, you will.
- [114:52]
E
Absolutely. Thank you, guys.
- [114:53]
B
You got it, man.
- [114:55]
E
Bicep tendonitis. What's your. What's your go to move for that?
- [114:58]
B
Oh, yeah. Deep, deep bicep stretches. Okay. So really, really long static stretching for the bicep tendon. It's actually not a hard fix. And then with the other hand, you
- [115:08]
C
can rub on it those rifle flips.
- [115:10]
B
Rifle flips. You can look that up on our YouTube channel. Yeah, we do this several times a day, and it tends to take care of it.
- [115:17]
E
Awesome. Okay.
- [115:18]
B
Yeah, you got it. Thanks, Clark. I'll have someone call you.
- [115:21]
E
Okay, Sounds good. Thank you guys so much.
- [115:25]
B
He's in a good place.
- [115:26]
H
Place.
- [115:26]
C
He is. He is. And you're. If we can get through the psychological part, that'll be challenging.
- [115:32]
B
That's why the coach is so important.
- [115:33]
C
Yeah.
- [115:34]
B
It's not about the information. Yeah, yeah, that's valuable. The information is valuable. But it's about the coaching.
- [115:39]
D
That's what we have to convey.
- [115:40]
B
It's about the coaching through the process. It helps a lot. And I know it's an investment. I mean, for people listening, it is an investment. But I'll tell you what, of all the investments you can make when it comes to, well, if you get results, nothing comes close.
- [115:51]
C
If you commit and you do it right.
- [115:52]
H
Right.
- [115:52]
C
And you say nine months to a year, you'll never have to do it again. I mean, the tools that you'll get from that will last you for the rest of your life.
- [116:00]
B
That's right.
- [116:01]
C
So it's it. That's why it is like an investment. And it's not, it isn't cheap to do that for nine months to a year. But you know, if you think about it like anything else, you've invested in yourself, it and what better than the thing that's going to be help you control your health.
- [116:13]
B
That's right.
- [116:14]
C
You know that's right.
- [116:15]
B
Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.
- [116:18]
A
Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the like love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.