Many of us were taught an unspoken deal: live faithfully, do the right things, and life will work out. In this episode, Amber and Tom gently - but firmly - challenge that transactional model of faith and money with Amy Butler, a pastor, author, and founder of Invested Faith.

Amy shares how her own ministry journey exposed the limits of “cosmic vending machine” theology – and why she believes faith communities are called to something deeper: interdependence. Drawing from her books Beautiful and Terrible Things and Holy Disruption, she explores how churches can move beyond scarcity thinking and creatively repurpose their assets to fund social enterprises that challenge unjust systems.

Along the way, the conversation gets refreshingly practical: why pastors need balance sheets, not just Bible studies; why financial literacy is a form of pastoral care; and why closing or transforming institutions can be holy work. It’s a hopeful, grounded look at how faith communities can steward money, power, and privilege with courage, imagination, and a little disruption.

About Pastor Amy Butler:

Pastor Amy Butler has led some of the most iconic pulpits in America, including becoming the first woman to lead New York's Riverside Church. She's a writer, community builder, and founder of Invested Faith, a movement helping congregations use their aging assets to fund the work of faith-rooted social entrepreneurs building businesses that are changing unjust systems.
Amy’s Books:

Beautiful and Terrible Things
Holy Disruption (co-authored with Dawn Darwin Weaks)

For more episodes and info, visit Money, Meet Meaning.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices