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Move It or Lose it - The Podcast
Move It or Lose It | Episode 144 | Mike Studer - The Brain Chooses Itself
00:48:54
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Your host, Kathy Chester and welcome to the Move it or Lose it podcast. A podcast about all things that move the mind, body and soul. The Move it or Lose it podcast is for information, awareness and inspirational purposes only. I am not a doctor and I don't even play one on tv, so please consult your doctor before making any medical decisions. The views expressed by advertisers, guests or contributors are their opinions and not necessarily the views of the Move it or Lose it podcast. Introducing the Pulse Device. Cutting edge wearable device, revolutionary wellness. Designed to stimulate circulation, reduce harsh pain and tightness and speed up recovery. The Pulse Device uses advanced vibro tactile technology trusted by patients, clinicians and wellness professionals. Whether you're recovering from an injury, battling a neuro condition or just want to feel the best every day, Pulse helps you rechange recharge so that you can live and feel better. Lightweight, powerful and easy to use. Experience better performance, better recovery and a better you. Order now and save $30 using my code Ms. Disrupted@pulse device.com the Pulse device is your health recharged? You won't be disappointed. Get it now for yourself. I have it. I love it. Go ahead and grab it. Hello. Welcome to another week of Move it or Lose it. I'm really excited. Mike and I have done this a few times trying to get together and do this podcast, but we did it. We're on today. So Mike stutter, thank you so much for being here. I am so excited. You are so accomplished and we're going over all your stuff and I thought oh my gosh, I need to get. I need to get moving. I need to accomplish a lot to try to catch up with you. So thank you for being here and thank you for all that you do for the neuro community. Just going over a little bit of the things that you do. So of course it's a Monday. My printer didn't work. So you just are so Board certified specialist in neurologic Physical therapy. Very well respected. First the first Neurology Specialist certified examination was administered in 1987. As of June 2024, AB PTS was certified in 4000 and we'll talk about that in your awards. All physical therapists are qualified through education, clinical experience and licensure to treat broad spectrum of symptoms and conditions. And this is what you are teaching, correct?
- [03:01]
B
Yeah, yeah. So I'm a board certified neurologic clinical specialist. There's not many of us. I've now been certified for over 30 years and I've received my recertification which will Carry me through to 40 years. So, wow, Kathy, we're calling out my age now because I've been a physical therapist for over 35 years now.
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A
That's okay. That's okay. You look really good for whatever age you are. So just talk about a little bit about your accomplishments. You. You are a neuro clinic. You already have that of the year. You. When did you win that? The neuro clinic?
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B
I won the.
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A
My words are not coming out.
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B
That's okay. I won the National Neurologic Clinician of the Year by the American Physical therapy Association in 2011, and then 2014, I was awarded the same designation by the geriatric section.
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A
That's really awesome.
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B
Of the apta. So very honored to receive that. And then just a few years later and a few years ago, I was designated as a fellow at the American Physical Therapy Association. There's not too many of those. So I.
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A
Talk to us about what that means, because a lot of people don't. Unless you're in that field, they don't know what that means. So tell us what that is.
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B
So a Catherine Worthingham fellow of the American Physical Therapy association has provided distinguished service, clinically, research, academically, educationally, across the lifespan of their career in physical therapy. They have some. They've been someone who's impacted the profession positively. That would be the shortest way of putting it. There's about 400 people in the history of the profession that have been designated as such. And I'm just blessed to have been nominated and to be awarded such.
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A
Yeah. So. Well, so are we. We. Now I want to know what. What got you. What. What. What grabbed you in the neuroscience? Like what. What it was like. Okay, I have to know because sometimes I feel like, especially when it's something like Ms. Or Parkinson's, something that it's like, this is difficult to understand. What made you think this is so difficult to understand? I'm in. I'm going to go for it.
- [05:21]
B
All right, Kathy, I thank you for the question. It's a very intelligent, insightful, and impactful question. I came into physical therapy as a person who thought he wanted to do everything possible to continue to be aligned with Major League Baseball. That is my sport. And once I knew I could not make it to the majors, I knew that I had to get there some way. So I had a full ride scholarship to the University of Missouri as a function of being a valedictorian. I went there, I tried to ask what's my best way of getting in with Major League Baseball? Broadcast journalism, athletic training, Physical therapy. I took physical therapy. As I started my volunteer hours to get into physical therapy school, I was awakened to neurologic physical therapy. Helping people with stroke, those with multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, actually make a difference in their quality of life to me was much more meaningful than helping someone run 90ft faster to first base. And the game was over by then.
- [06:31]
A
Wow, that's really interesting. That's really great. And I can only understand from my perspective as owning a regular gym and it was successful. And I just had this nauseous feeling when Covid hit because right before then, everybody wanted to do a second gym. And in my heart I'm thinking, this isn't what I want to do. And thank you for the accolades, thank you for wanting me to have that. But I know the direction I want to go. And it's not like you're saying I don't want my legacy to be, you know, that I got some 20 year old girl in a bikini. I want my legacy to be that this person is now walking again. This person now took a step and this person stood in the shower for the first time. And so those are the things I. So I really appreciate what you did and what you're saying. And it is a big step and it is something that is unknown from back, especially back then, watching your TED Talk and the two books that you have. I loved the idea with when we talk about neuroplasticity back in the day, that was something we talked about. But I remember I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis over 20 years ago. And that was something that was not talked about and it was just kind of ridiculous in the beginning when people brought it up. So talk to me about how, how you were brought to that and what you saw in the beginning, how you saw it and how you saw it work and how you were able to intelligently speak to other therapists and, and explain how this works to others.
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B
It's a great question. I've been fortunate in my career and life to have many opportunities to be able to garner a broad perspective on historically what we've done. For example, I was in physical therapy school in the late 1980s. Okay. And at that time, we did not know about neuroplasticity. You're exactly right. We did not know about neurogenesis and, and many of the conditions that we treat more effectively now at that point in our careers and education, we thought we could try to help the individual function we didn't know we could combat or what we now know is mitigate the disease, much less make some improvements. So we spent a lot of our time working with individuals with stroke, just trying to help them recover as much as they could put some of their life together with amputations and with many orthopedic conditions. Knee replacement, hip replacement, et cetera.
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A
Right.
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B
Okay. By the time we hit the decade of the brains in the 1990s, or the decade of the brain, I should say singular, it became apparent just then in laboratory experiments, first, starting with animals, that under the right conditions, that the nervous system would respond and make new connections. And so the action of making new connections as a function of learning is called neuroplasticity. All of us, no matter our ages and no matter our conditions, have the capacity for neuroplasticity. We can learn a fact. 15 times 15 is 225. We can learn an event or an episode in our life. That was a fun show I just watched. Remember that vacation that we took? Those are episodic memories. And finally, we have one third portion of memories called procedural memories, and that is the memories of how we move, that we automatize. In the early days of neuroplasticity, we did not think that this was a viable process that would last beyond someone's early childhood. Oh, sure, young kids that had to have a hemispherectomy, half of their brain taken out, right. Could learn how to use one half of the brain to control the whole body. They could learn how to speak and write and learn new languages, et cetera. But we've learned that there's no end, no timeframe to neuroplasticity. No matter, no age, no condition. And so my benefit is seeing what we didn't know, learning about it from the start, and being on the ground level and the grassroots. A clinician working for 50 hours a week, seeing patients, learning how to apply this and watching what works. And here's the essence, and then I'll turn it back to you. Your podcast has it, right? Move it or lose it is, in fact, as you likely know, one of the ten accepted principles of neuroplasticity.
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A
Right.
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B
So we talk about use it or lose it. We talk about use it and improve it.
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Yes.
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So if we use it, it will improve, not just we didn't lose it.
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Right.
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We talk about intensity, repetitions, and practicing in a manner that imitates life.
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Yes.
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So my passion and my TED Talk formulate those and translate all of the science so that people can live their lives better.
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A
I loved that. I loved listening to the TED Talk. I could listen to it daily because it really hits, I think, so many, so much of where we are in any of them, whether it's a stroke survivor, whether it's Parkinson's, whether it's multiple sclerosis. And I love what you said about a lot of times, I think one of the first signs that I had, and I'm using me because I'm with you is, was cognitive stuff. And from the time I was diagnosed 20 something years ago, it was, well, that's not going to come back. And well, that I believed what my doctor said. And now, I mean, what do you say to the people that, I mean, they prescribe me Adderall and that's still the drug of choice for cognitive issues. What do you say to that? Or do you see that also? Do you see that changing in, in all the, in all of the issues? The brain, whether it's a concussion, whether it's Parkinson's, whether it's ms, do you see that changing? Absolutely.
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B
Here? Yes. And, and here. And it's, it's an affirmative with an exclamation point. A couple of things. And let's again use you as an example. You've elevated that for us. So Kathy, number one, you run a gym, you run a podcast, you run a family and many other things. We understand that you're doing things in your purpose filled life to prevent further degradation or loss. Right. Because you have to be organized with the podcast and the gym and life, you're actually keeping your cognitive faculties viable. Again, let me state very clearly, preventing further loss and what that means in the brain physically, it's like a superhighway where sometimes maybe multiple sclerosis can have an exacerbation and you can have a highway that's closed temporarily, especially if you have a relapsing, remitting subtype of multiple sclerosis. Highways closed. But because Kathy is used to running multiple highways between these two towns, she has many other redundant lanes that she can continue to travel on. And so until this highway reopens this lane, you can still function at quite high speeds. And it's only because you continue to lay down more asphalt and keep those workers out there laying down pavement and actually widening your highways that you can continue. So that's one thing. You're preventing further losses. And, and you are laying down redundant pathways. Neuroplasticity is dependent on demand.
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A
Yes.
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B
And supply.
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Right. Very well.
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B
Demand of your brain. Your brain won't supply it.
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A
Right.
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B
Now I'll briefly address the last part of your question. Do you see those Things changing. Absolutely. We have stigmas in health care and society that have held you down, have held other people like you down, saying, it's ms, what do you want us to do? We can't beat the disease, right? It's Parkinson's. However, if we have someone that's hungry, we feed them. If we have someone that's weak, we strengthen them, right? If we have someone whose brain has been injured, we haven't taken the same thing to say, let's provide a stimulus and try to reverse the hunger, reverse the weakness, reverse the neurologic damage. If we don't try, it will not happen and we will lose those functions.
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A
Yes.
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B
More to say about that, but I want to turn it back over to your elegant question.
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A
Thank you. I, I love what you said about that because I think that obviously movement, incredibly important, right? The dopamine, all that takes place with that. But what I do love in what I do and I see other people do is having the podcast. Especially when I'm, when I'm interviewing a patient, let's say, okay, I've got to keep track of what I'm saying and when they, when I'm watching them losing their thought. So it's a very good exercise for an Ms. Patient or Parkinson's or stroke to be having to think ahead of, okay, I've got it. I've got to keep this. I've got to really be listening and focusing because at some point this is my podcast and that, that person may lose what they're saying. So I better be listening and I better be ready to help this person out. So to me, it's a very good wordle all those kind of things, but very good ways to help the mind to readjust. And again, new lanes that I haven't gone in. But that's. Those are kind of games I play with myself.
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B
Those are very healthy games. And again, it's purpose filled. It feels fun to you, it feels engaging and productive to you and to each person. Every listener you have out there, they need to choose their own opportunities to procure more health. You know, it. Not everybody has to exercise, right? You can actually get movement through physical activity. Doesn't have to be in a gym, but when it's structured and it's in a gym, you can get an elevated dosage if that's something you believe in. But you're exactly right, there are opportunities that are out there. And just like you're exercising your cognitive faculties when you're interviewing someone, we have to keep all of our faculties viable. Recently Moved from a two story home to a one story.
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A
Okay.
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B
Am I going to allow my legs to get weaker because I'm not going up and down stairs? I have to replace the stimulus. If I retire from work, I have to replace the stimulus that work was giving me.
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A
I love that you said that.
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Yes. And when you lose those stimuli, you don't lose it because you're aging, you lose it because you stop doing it.
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A
So. Okay, I have a question about that. So a lot of times I run a couple support groups as well. So I have a lot of people in the support group that will say, because it's open to not just multiple sclerosis, but all, all of the things, all the fun things. So one of the things that I always feel when I'm listening is that when you're struggling, when you're not working anymore, you feel like there's no. You lose the sense of not only independence, but what is my life worth anymore? Once that happens, we're in scary territory.
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Scary.
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So I always love the idea. This has always been my dream at some point is to have times that we brainstorm with those people and remind them, oh, what did you like to do previous to this? And how can we then engage in activities so these people don't feel like there's nothing to live for, but they are still relevant.
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B
That's right. And that's why I start every single physical therapy session that I have with a person that I've never met, whether I'm a coverage therapist or doing a new evaluation by learning about the person.
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Yeah.
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What was your work? What are hobbies you have? What are things you like to do? Because then I take that information and fold that into. I inform my physical therapy session with that. The individual is engaged to recapture those activities. Or. Or they're engaged to remind their brain about the things that they used to do. Sometimes I just frame my educational opportunities according to what their profession was and I make an analogy that that feels more common to them. So we need to personalize health care, personalize wellness. What I like to say, the big, you know, phrase right now is precision medicine.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I tell people you can't spell precision without the letters from person.
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Yeah.
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Well, I'm writing when you need those to spell precision.
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A
Yeah, I like it. That's good. This must be why you're asked to speak all over the world. You think you're funny. You're very intelligent. This is. Yeah. Very good. I like that. What do you say to some of the patients that are, are feeling like, they're not. They're not heard, they're not listened to.
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B
Okay. So what I like to do in those situations is I want them to tell me about their healthcare experiences. Name two things that you have seen or experienced in healthcare that has not felt healthy to you, and give me one thing that you feel like has been healthy. Because I want to be a provider that doesn't replicate the errors that have been made, and I want to reproduce the success you've already had. So I let them help me inform my care and my practice right away.
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Very good.
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Yeah. If you don't open it up for. To give people the opportunity to say what works for you.
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Right.
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And you've already lost them, and you've lost a large part of benefit in what we call the placebo effect, right?
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Yeah, 100%.
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I'll be very careful to define this well for the audience. You're very familiar with it, but a placebo is not the same thing as a placebo effect.
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A
Right.
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B
A placebo is meaningless, invaluable, sham. It's a sugar pill, it's a tincture, it's an ointment, it's snake oil. Okay. That's meaningless and worthless. But the placebo effect is the amount of that something will be improved or made better because you believe in it. Yes, I believe in my therapist. I believe in this hospital or program. I'm going to. I believe this medication is going to help me because my mom also took it and it worked for her. So we need to leverage the placebo effect by demonstrating to people that we're listening to them and we care about getting it right.
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A
Correct. I think that that is one of the things that I know you'll understand this is that when I decided to go into this field, and long story, I didn't get to complete the physical therapy. So what I. What my big. What my heart was always stressed about, not sure that's the right word, is that what next with these patients? You know, what's the next part? And because exercise, physio, all of that was such a big part for me, that's what I decided to continue, was that we've got to figure out what next. Because I'm seeing too many patients lost after, like, I don't know how to exercise. I've never been in an exercise program. And so for me, I thought, well, gosh, I do know how to help these people. And so this is what I'm going to do. This is what I want to do. I didn't know there was no money in it. Mike, I should have called you. But it is something that, as you know, that feeling of helping and seeing someone with issues like this is so completely rewarding. What do you say to. Gosh, it's leaving my mind. I got to think of this because it was a good question of, oh, because I know you have this, like I do people that you are caring more than they are or you want them healthier than they do. That's a very difficult thing for us when, when we see how far they can go and they don't. They're. They're not good. They're missing appointments, they're not coming. And you're just like, I can't care more about your health than you do. How do you handle that?
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B
I'll tell you this, and this is just my perspective on this. Bob Marley once said, no bad days. All right. And I say no bad patients.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I feel very strongly that an unmotivated patient is a person that hasn't been heard and listened to.
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A
Yeah.
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That my approach has not resonated with them because it's my job. If I'm doing it well, not to cookie cut the same exact treatment for everyone, but to find the person in there and find meaning so that I can tap into that.
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I like that.
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B
So I'll tell you that when I see an individual is less than fully engaged.
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Yeah.
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B
I want to pivot and make certain that I'm doing what I can to allow them to work with me to adjust the dosage. How does that feel to you? Because they might be scared or fearful of what I'm doing, but also unwilling to verbalize that to me. And if I don't give them space to say, does this make you fearful? I don't know that. And I have scared them off from coming to therapy. Or maybe my therapy has been too game, like too playful. Some people love that. Other people feel like they're wasting their co pay. So I want to make certain. How are you receiving this therapy? Does it feel like it's meaningful and value to you? And in many situations, I need to find out the subtype of person we have here, what motivates them. Because they might be motivated by what we call gamification. They want to try to see if they can set a new personal best in a two minute walk test.
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Yeah.
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But if I assume that everybody's motivated by gamification.
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Right.
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Then I miss 40% of the people.
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A
Right. That's true. I love that. Yeah.
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B
And what is worth your co pay and worth your Time. Because some people also don't have any self efficacy and they don't think they can improve or. I say one last thing on this.
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A
Go ahead.
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B
Last part. The. The attribute known as self efficacy.
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A
Yeah.
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Thinking that what I do to help my health condition matters is extremely important. And if someone has no self efficacy, I can't talk them into having self efficacy. I say people earn self efficacy. They don't learn self efficacy. So a less than fully motivated patient.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Sometimes I'm going to quiet down.
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Yeah.
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And let them prove to themselves they're doing better than what they predict.
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A
Yes, like that. Very good. Very, very good. I'm going to replay this. And so my other question is what do you. Okay, let me remember what I was going to ask. Darn it. Those. That cognitive stuff. It was. I wanted to put that in. I'll ask you something else that hopefully it'll come to me. It was where I started talking about
- [27:21]
B
self efficacy that you were. You were just about ready to talk and I was talking to you about different ways that people could be motivated. Gamification would be one thing. We didn't talk about it, but lost version. So maybe that was talking about is different ways to motivate people.
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A
Oh, I know what it was. No, what do you. What are your thoughts on some of the newer physical therapy that I run into when I get them next where it's like, boom, boom, they walk. They did this.
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B
They did it.
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A
Checked out, check done. That makes me nervous when I get. And I'm like, wait, you. You didn't do this. They didn't do this with you. Hold on. That makes. Or if they won't work with me to help the client, the patient, where it's like, is this about you or are we talking about the patient? Do you see a big difference in. And I don't mean nerve. Well, they'll say neuro, but it's not really neuro. And the nervousness. Am I alone on that or is this making nervous. Okay.
- [28:24]
B
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So we do understand that your best opportunity to be served well by a physical therapist as an individual with multiple sclerosis is to seek out someone that has earned degrees of specialization or certification in this. Because, number one, if nothing else, that indicates this person cares about and has attempted to learn more about this condition. And in that fashion. We know nowadays we still have a shortage of healthcare providers and many providers are being served by someone who would rather not see X diagnosis on their caseload. This is what I really like to do, but. Oh, I've got to see one of these individuals.
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A
Right?
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B
And that could be total knee replacement, low back pain, could be ms, could be CP or stroke. But if you're not matched well with someone that is engaged by your condition, they may demonstrate that disengagement by exactly what you're talking about. A very robotic, a very checklist oriented, systematized rather than personalized approach. And I say be a great healthcare consumer and move on.
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A
Yeah, yep, exactly. I'm like, it's like speed dating. If you're not feeling that, then there are a lot of physical therapists and you'll find a great one. But move on.
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B
It's not hard to find a physical therapist that has neurologic specialization. You just go on to find a pt.org and it's spelled out just like that and type in the search engine exactly what you're looking for. Neurologic has specialization within five miles from this zip code. And you've got it.
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A
I love. Yeah, thank you. That'll be on the show notes as well. Okay, so I want to talk about the books that you wrote. Talk to us a little bit about. Hey, so the one in 2007 I believe was just seeing changes, right? We're talking about like changes and, and we're just talking then because we talked a little bit about it before. That's when I was kind of hearing because you know, I would just always wanted more knowledge. So I was the one like at any doctor's office at any place that could, you know, knock, knock, knock. What is this thing? I want to know more. So that's when people were still. We're kind of learning more. People aren't thinking it's completely nuts. They're kind of having some like ideas. This is, this is. All right. There may be something to it, but a lot of actors were still thinking it was nuts. So you start writing a book. Talk to us about the book.
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B
Okay, so to be very clear but yet succinct, I've published about 50 articles, two books and seven book chapters. The book that you may be referring to here, so my most popular book right here is the. And it's available on Amazon, is the Brain that Chooses Itself.
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A
Yes.
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B
That book does exactly what you and I have been talking about today. It respects the patient's ability and values the patient's ability to make choices in their own wellness and health care. And in that book, which was just published in 2024, late to 2024, can
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A
I say thank you by the way, that it's unbolt. Can I say thank you. A lot of us have very poor eyesight, so, so thank you for that. It's always.
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B
I'm glad you enjoyed that.
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A
Thank you.
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B
I recorded that book in this very room and with this very microphone, really and shrouded to be able to make for a very, let's just say impactful and high quality recording studio.
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A
Thank you.
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B
You're very welcome. I take great pleasure in narrating that book myself. So that book actually divides health span. How can we stay functional, fun and productive for as long as possible? It divides it into five separate categories. Physical activity, movement that we've talked about today. Nutrition, sleep, rest and play, social connectivity, keeping connected with others and then also having alone time as we prefer. And then the final one is doing challenging things so that we keep our faculties viable. And you already know, live and breathe all of this. But there are health properties that can reduce inflammation like physical activity, like sleep that we don't necessarily know.
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A
Right.
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B
If unless we delve into the literature. And there are so many different ways to get the health properties that it's a misnomer to say you need to take this supplement. You need to only do this exercise.
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A
Right.
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Everyone in the world needs to fall asleep at 9:30 and sleep eight hours. And the problem is that we feel like we're missing the mark. So why even try? Aging is going to do what aging is going to do. And so I took the book and I said, let's give people, empower them with all the different options and let them choose an option that feels easy and inexpensive and intuitive and logical and let them choose to grab some health.
- [34:01]
A
Yes. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think it's a great book. I'm going to encourage everyone to get that. I think it's, I, I think it's so crucial. I think it brings up things that we don't always think about and, or never thought about. And I think that it's, it's just very well done. I love it. I know a lot of us love to have audible because we can no longer breed with our eyeballs anymore. So I just really encourage that. That'll all be on the show. Notes and definitely. I have just been so impressed with Talk to us about. I love what you talked about in the TED Talk. And then I, I know I won't keep you because I know then people, 30 minutes is the top. Talk to us about the. I love what you talked about the TED Talk about the one can't remember his name, the one that was in the Water. And because I do see, I do see with my, my higher functioning clients that are able to do some forms because I always take it as like a surrogate training but change it to that person. And I do see some that want that short hit and they'll do that HIIT program and I'll do it with them. And they get a lot out of that and so not a ton, but I do have those clients that will do that. So tell me about, or tell the listeners about, about this young man and how that changed.
- [35:24]
B
What's interesting is Luke had two concussions one month apart. And a year later I got to see him for the first time. He had gone from a high level soccer athlete and straight A student to basically failing in both of those. He was losing attention span, he was depressed, he could not problem solve very well. The concussions, two of them had stacked up. I put Luke through a progressive training program that involved physical activity in the exact fashion that he liked. Yeah, we put it into the context of soccer and I gave him a cognitive activity to keep track of at the same time. We call that dual tasking. We gave him, just as you're suggesting, Kathy, high intensity interval training. And I put him on an underwater treadmill, which meant he was in water up to his chest. He would have to listen to a list of words that I would play out. And each one of those words he had memorized were with associated with one of the four directions on the treadmill. Forward, sideways, backwards, or sideways. And by engaging his brain and his body without overdoing it because running underwater has a degree of buoyancy at support, he saw himself as capable. He saw himself as improving. He received dopamine and brain fertilizers and created the neural pathways that restored his capacity to think and attend in class. Right now your listeners will be impressed to know that even though I saw Luke back in 2017 and 18 and he could not find his way through school or back onto the soccer field, that Luke this August is starting physical therapy school.
- [37:33]
A
Wow, that's really awesome. That's a miracle. And that's. Those are the great stories. I think people, when they start a program, they think, oh my gosh, it's been a year. I'm not doing this, this. And it's constantly saying, patient, patient. Sometimes we have to go backwards to go forward. Patience.
- [37:52]
B
Wow, that is powerful. And sometimes you do need to go backward to go forward. And you need to know as a person with multiple sclerosis that it's okay to engage in something that Feels difficult, go backward, be a little bit fatigued so you can replenish and challenge some systems. We have done a disservice to persons with multiple sclerosis for decades in shrouding them and nearly protecting them in a blanket that ends up weighing them down to saying, protect, stay away, don't exert.
- [38:30]
A
Right.
- [38:30]
B
And I. Yes, yes.
- [38:34]
A
And it was 20, it was Covid. It was 2020. The first time Ms. Society said exercise is your best defense, I was like, hello, Hello.
- [38:44]
B
It's anti inflammatory. It promotes the immune system's ability to defend. It creates a resilience and redundant pathways for your cortical lesions. But what we understand is that upwards of 40% of the disability that people with multiple sclerosis have is because of disuse, not disappointed disease.
- [39:10]
A
Right? Yeah.
- [39:11]
B
Wow.
- [39:12]
A
Yes, yes, 100%. If I could shout that from the rooftops. I try hard and it is very interesting. And I do believe most Ms. Patients don't like when I say this, but I believe that from the beginning, because my aunt had it and my grandfather, that I never stopped moving. I just did it. I just kept going with what felt right, was seemed right. And yeah, I just thought, you know, I had little kids and I thought I. There's nothing I'm willing to lose, so whatever I have to do. And so I think that those people, I can tell a difference in where they are and why. I think I've stayed in relapsing, remitting and not gone on to worsen.
- [39:55]
B
You've controlled it. And Kathy, you're a little bit younger than I am, so I'll at least hearken to some of your listeners and you may have some familiarity with this, but we have a misperception of what exercise has to look like.
- [40:12]
A
Yeah.
- [40:12]
B
And we also have a misconception that everything has to be exercise and physical activity. I mean, when I was in high school and early days of college, I graduated high school in 87C. Everett Coop was the US Surgeon General, did a great job, but we thought at that time, because of some of his work, that people needed. It wasn't exercise and it wasn't good for you unless you did 30 minutes straight of cardiovascular.
- [40:44]
A
Right, Right.
- [40:45]
B
You know this now owning your gym and as a person with multiple sclerosis, that if it feels too difficult to exercise.
- [40:53]
A
Right.
- [40:54]
B
You can do high intensity interval training for 15 seconds hard. 40 seconds exactly. Five seconds easy.
- [41:02]
A
Right.
- [41:02]
B
15 seconds hard.
- [41:03]
A
Yeah.
- [41:04]
B
You can do four sets of 15 seconds. That adds up to a minute spread out over six minutes of Time. And you benefited yourself sometimes more than 20 minutes straight of activity.
- [41:16]
A
Yeah, 100. And I also agree with sometimes doing it on my own, which I love to do, is that you can see your patient or client look at them and say, oh, they look like they're, they're not ready for that. And then you can say, you know, let's do some breathing and meditation and then maybe stretching today because that's the movement and that's what they need and they don't need today to do. I'm going to throw out the program I wrote for them today because that's what they need today. Something different. Going back to what you said. No. Getting to know your patient, how they receive it, what, how are they going to connect? Do they trust you? Well, they sure will if they can see that. Okay. They, they can see me and know I'm not ready to do a full on workout today. Do you see me in my eyes? That I'm, I'm not feeling it today? So I think that that's an important thing to understand.
- [42:10]
B
You've got it. You should have co written the book with me because you understand here that especially their listeners, if we give them even just one more, let's just say nugget or ear candy, it's this. That when we can help someone engage in movement that they prefer that movement is actually superior to the best exercise.
- [42:40]
A
Yeah. 100, right? Yes. Yeah.
- [42:42]
B
And so we talk about exercise snacks and we talk about what's known as vilpa. And I write about it in the book in chapter two. But let's just make it very clear, if you don't feel that you have time, energy, money to make it out to the gym, personal trainer, et cetera, build your tissue hygiene. Just like Kathy's saying, build your abilities with some stretching today. Build your abilities with a slow walk today. And so you may do something in the confines of your own home known as an exercise snack. You know what, when I stand up from the couch, rather than standing up once, I'm going to sit back down and stand back up and do it five times. That's an exercise snack, right? Reach over and grab a handful of health.
- [43:32]
A
Yeah.
- [43:32]
B
When I'm brushing my teeth, I'm going to try to stand with my feet close together even though I'm close to the counter or the sink and I could catch myself. I'm working on my balance exercises.
- [43:43]
A
Yes. Love that.
- [43:44]
B
During a time I've devoted for something else. We call that habit stacking.
- [43:49]
A
Love that.
- [43:50]
B
And finally there's just an enormity of science on something that's known as vigorous intermittent lifestyle physical activity. You don't have to know the acronym. It's called vilpa and it means in the activities you were already going to do today, spend brief periods of time moving with intensity. You were going to walk out to get the mail, take 10 steps fast on your 80 steps to get the mail. So you were going to get up and get out of bed, try to see if you can do it quickly once or twice and go from lying down to legs on the floor to standing up and generate some power.
- [44:32]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [44:34]
B
Done yourself some help in very small.
- [44:37]
A
So true of time. So true. Yeah, I absolutely. I love that I couldn't be. And obviously more agreement with what you're saying. And I think it's, it's just so powerful and so true. And I, yeah, I just. Yes, we're gonna have to write a book for sure. Because I couldn't be. I'm just like, yes, yes, everything. So it just has been. We're gonna have to do another podcast. We're definitely gonna have to collaborate on something. I couldn't have enjoyed this podcast more. I know that listeners are going to absolutely love this and enjoy just hearing the things that you've shared about neuroplasticity, about. Not everything needs to be this high intensity exercise. It has to be something that works for you that you want to do the other ways, the books, the other ways that, that people can, can grow from these, from the things and not get rid of the depression and have some things that just really gets them excited. So definitely want to talk to you more.
- [45:39]
B
And I know and I, if I've done one thing, I've. I've missed the mark because you referred to books a number of times. So I'll just, I'll bring this one over because I've neglected to mention this one. This is my most recent book and so thank you for bringing it up several times. So this will be a somewhat of a humorous story to end on. And it ends well. On September 15, I experienced a full blown onset of Bell's palsy.
- [46:10]
A
Oh no.
- [46:11]
B
Basically means this. The right side of my face did not work at all for two weeks straight. And I had the worst prognosis possible. Facial droop, no resting tone, no voluntary ability to move my face. And so Kathy, every single day that I went through that, I in fact journaled about what I was going through. And I actually have all of that written in a very short, easy to read book in very large Print.
- [46:43]
A
Oh, I want to. Yeah.
- [46:44]
B
And that book actually not only helps people get through Bell's palsy, because that would be a very small audience, it actually helps people learn how to get through crises without making the crisis worse. So that's exactly why I titled it my Facebook.
- [47:06]
A
Yeah.
- [47:06]
B
And it's called Looking beyond what the Mirror Shows Us in Crisis.
- [47:11]
A
Because I love that we tend to
- [47:12]
B
flame the crisis and make it worse. Thank you for bringing that book up.
- [47:17]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. I love it too, because it is. And this will really, truly be the end. Um, you know, we, we don't always remember those things, like don't make a decision in the middle of crisis. Right. That's not the time that you make big decisions. So what a great reminder. So thank you for that. So I look forward to. To doing something with you soon. And thank you so much for being with us today. And when it airs, I'll let you know. And we'll definitely broadcast this all over so listeners don't worry about. You don't have to pull over because everything will be on the bottom of the show notes. So don't forget to not just listen and. But you please subscribe because that's what helps the podcast. So again, thank you so much, Mike. It was great to have you.
- [48:02]
B
Kathy, thank you for filling this space. If you had chosen an alternate route for your profession, the space that you fill would be void and empty.
- [48:12]
A
Thank you very. Thank you. That's a great compliment. I will take that all day. Thank you. Have a great day, guys. I can't wait to see you back next week. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the Move it or Lose it podcast. It would mean the world to me if you subscribed and left a review. Remember, you can find me on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, and YouTube. New episodes of the Move it or Lose it podcast air every other Wednesday. If you have any suggestions for future guests or topics, please visit my website@www.msdisrupted.com. until next time, Next.