← Move It or Lose it - The Podcast
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Your host, Kathy Chester, and welcome to the Move it or Lose it podcast, a podcast about all things that move the mind, body and soul. The Move it or Lose it podcast is for information, awareness and inspirational purposes only. I am not a doctor and I don't even Play 1 on TV, so please consult your doctor before making any medical decisions. The views expressed by advertisers, guests or contributors are their opinions and not necessarily the views of the Move it or Lose it podcast. Introducing the Pulse Device. Cutting edge wearable device, revolutionary wellness. Designed to stimulate circulation, reduce harsh pain and tightness, and speed up recovery. The Pulse Device uses advanced vibro tactile technology trusted by patients, clinicians and wellness professionals. Whether you're recovering from an injury, battling a neuro condition, or just want to feel the best every day, Pulse helps you rechange, recharge so that you can live and feel better. Lightweight, powerful and easy to use. Experience better performance, better recovery, and a better you. Order now and save $30 using my code Ms. Disrupted@pulse device.com the Pulse Device. Is your health recharged? You won't be disappointed. Get it now for yourself. I have it. I love it. Go ahead and grab it. Hello, welcome to another edition, another show of Move it or Lose It. Today. I am very excited because this is something that I have been very interested in and I'm very excited to have Garrick Salpeter on from newfit. And you are the founder, right? And you have the. Yeah, you're the founder and co. You are. What is your job title? Completely. I'm like founder and co.
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Founder and CEO.
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CEO. So very nice. Thank you for being on here. I've had so many questions about the newbie and how do I get it? Where is it at? And so you guys really. Well, let you explain. But for clinicians, athletes, for people like us, which you'll see, a lot of the people that are listening on this are people that have different autoimmune diseases, different brain injuries, Parkinson's, all sorts of stuff. So you'll. You'll. That'll be kind of our audience. So first I want to know, Garrett, what in the world got you into this and what excited you about it? What did you see first that you were like, there's definitely something to this. This electrical stimulation. There's something to this?
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Well, yes, happy to get into that. Thank you, Kathy. And hello, movers. It's honored to be here with you. And Kathy mentioned that she's interested in the newbie. So that's our product, our company Is new fit for neurological fitness because we believe in the power of the nervous system and how working with the nervous system is a gateway or a bridge to powerful outcomes and transformations. And our product, for which we're best known as the newbie for neurobioelectric stimulator. And it is a. A good question in terms of, you know, why. Why even right. Go so far down this. This rabbit hole in the first place? So, yeah, I feel very fortunate to have found an area where my. My academic training in engineering and neuroscience overlaps with my interest and passion and. Yeah, is passion of athletics and working with the human body. I grew up not too far from you, Kathy. I grew up in Chicago and played. Played ice hockey. And I really identified as a hockey player. And that was my catalyst for wanting to learn more about the human body so I could train myself and become a better athlete. And along the way, I had several really disappointing experiences with traditional physical therapy, traditional orthopedic medicine, you know, these various injuries that I had during. During my formative years.
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Injuries in hockey. What?
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Yeah, right.
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Does that happen? Yeah.
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So come to find out it does. And then I ended up playing in college. And my last year in college, I was already set to go to graduate school in engineering. I was a physics major, very academically oriented, and still a very passionate athlete. And I had this experience where I had another injury. I had some torn ligaments. I was told I likely would need surgery. And I was just kind of bummed out at the time. And I figured based on my previous experiences that, okay, that would be that. And then a friend of a friend introduced me to this chiropractor who was doing functional neurology. And I worked with him. And he's the first one who really taught me about the importance of the nervous system. Even when we're talking about an orthopedic type of injury, even we're talking about soft tissue, where people don't really think about the nervous system and how it responds and how that supports or does not support the healing process. So he taught me about the importance of the nervous system and the healing process and showed me what direct current could do. He had this older analog device with these different dials, you know, direct current device, more like a microcurrent device. But yeah, using. Using the power of those direct current electric fields combined with these. These techniques informed by neuroscience, I was able to heal my ligaments and avoid surgery. And I was so happy and relieved as a player, you know, and then as a. As a pre engineering student, as Someone with that sort of engineering, problem solving, scientific orientation to find something that actually made sense scientifically. Principles, that's, that's what really got me excited. Like this amazing eureka moment, light bulb going.
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I get it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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And so I, it literally changed the trajectory of what I want to do with my life because going through that, I just felt a calling within me to share that type of work with as many people as I could. And so eventually I started, I came to Austin, Texas for engineering school and I started a clinic working under a guy who's the chiropractor for the UT Longhorns football team.
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Started okay, very cool.
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Had 120 square foot room in his office. And I started for several years, you know, working under his license and those of others and actually working with people day to day and kept seeing ways that, that, that we could use this neurological approach and using direct current electric fields outcomes. And I, I started working with people like me that were athletes. I wanted to give the, give the, giving them the tools and techniques that I wished I had. And because it was so neurologically oriented, we eventually started just through existing clients and friends, you know, getting questions about, hey, could you work with this person, spinal cord injury, this person who has Ms. And eventually we started working with people with various neurological injuries and neurodegenerative conditions and had some just amazing breakthrough results that were the most wonderful, unexpected, energizing, gratifying, humbling surprises.
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So you saw it in with athletes first. So you're working with them. So were you surprised to see it in the neurological world where you were then working with people who had brain injuries? Ms. Were you surprised to see what you were seeing?
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Yes and no. I, I was, you know, if you'd asked me when I started this journey if our work would, would help people get out of wheelchairs after 20 more years, you know, I would have said, I mean, that's amazing, but I, I don't know.
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Right, right.
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So it's surprising in that regard, but it's also not, not necessarily as surprising from the perspective of, you know, the first time someone came to ask, hey, my friend is in a wheelchair from a spinal cord injury from these all these years ago. Do you think you could help her? Because everything that we had been learning and implementing around neuroscience, it started to not feel like as big of a stretch that it could be possible. So it's like yes and no.
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Yeah, absolutely. So then, so you started this, you had the, so then, okay, you started. The newbie wasn't was there then? So you Already had you already built. That was the newbie was there or you weren't. When did that kind of come on the scene?
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So I was using for several years. I sort of talk about it as my lab.
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I wish we had a PowerPoint so I could see. Right.
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Yeah. So I sort of talk about it as my laboratory period. Whereas, you know, seven or eight years of actually working with people day to day in the clinic using older versions of electrical stimulation technology. And during that time, I went back for additional graduate school in neuroscience. As I got really passionate about this and with that engineering background, I kept seeing ways I wanted to improve the technology that was out there and ways I wanted to, you know, continue to improve and evolve the methodology than the ways in which electrical stimulation was being used.
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Right.
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I finally got to the point, you know, I had been just waiting for someone else to come out with something and thinking I'd open more facilities.
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Yeah.
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And finally got to the point, you know, sort of all these different signs from the universe that.
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Yeah. So it'll be you.
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That's right. That's right. So, yeah, did not set out initially to start a medical device company, but that's all, you know, in terms of those signs from the universe. One interesting story in our facility, a guy came in just as a. As a client, and I. I started chatting with him a little bit, found out he's a patent attorney, and he was. He had really bad knee pain. Came in on Monday, and he said he was going to withdraw from this marathon that he had to run that. That he was planning to run that coming Saturday.
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Oh, I can feel that. That kill me.
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And so he was like, yeah, but I want to rehab this. So we. We did a session the other. On Monday, did another session on Wednesday. He felt so good. He actually ran in that marathon.
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That's awesome.
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And then the next week comes in, he's like, hey, tell me, tell me more about this. And I told him some of my ideas. And. And this was. This was probably the last straw that got me that kind of the last influence that sort of pushed me over the edge to make the decision. But he's like, you know, you could probably patent, you know, a couple of these different ideas here. I was like, oh, interesting. And that. That was sort of the final thing that was like, okay, maybe I will pursue this.
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That's really. It's really awesome. And I love, like, I'd written down a couple things, but I really love the idea of you. There's the understanding of the rehabilitation performance and how it Comes from the brain. And so I wanted to talk about the nervous system in general. And what does the nervous system actually have to do with the healing and injury pain? Because I think a lot of people that I work with and talk to, even when I'm talking to them, because they'll see me in my pulse device and like, we don't understand what electrical stimulation has to do with our pain. And you know, there's so many of us that don't want medication, surgery, things like that. So there's such an excitement about this. And so I want you to explain to our listeners how, how does this work and how does, how does this, the healing take place from injury and pain? Because we've seen it, I've seen it how one or two. And all of a sudden I see a little bit. A little bit. And then they're like, you talked about the marathon runner. So how do you explain this to someone that doesn't quite understand electrical stimulation?
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I think the, the biggest concept that we have to start with is the, the framework of the nervous system and understanding that the nervous system is the control system of the body. So our, our muscles, all of our movements, of course, are performed by our muscles, which transmit force to tendons and move our bones. And the muscles don't do anything on their own. They only do what they're to do by the electrical signals of the nervous system. So it's interesting to think about hardware and software, the hardware being the physical structures, bones, muscles, tendons, ligaments, discs, et cetera. And the software being the electrical neurological signals that control the hardware and tell it what to do. So that in addition to movement and muscles, it's also the other organs of the body. The nervous system controls heart rate and blood pressure, blood vessels constricting and dilating. It controls the digestive and elimination organs and the reproductive organs. And of course also it also controls hormonal release and thinking and metabolic activity. So the nervous system is the underlying control system of the body. So I think the first question to ponder is if we're going to target an intervention somewhere, does it make sense to think about how we can influence the underlying control system of the body? Because I think it's reasonable to at least believe that that could get us closest to the root cause of addressing
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so kind of training the nervous system is what we're talking about. And how do we. That flight, frightening, that flight or fight. That's the way area that we, that we are just so nerved up, especially with any brain injury, Ms. And stuff that how do, how does that help with that? How do we train that?
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So there's, there's a, there's another part to that that, that you mentioned in the previous question about pain that I think is, is then the next piece that we can bring up here to sort of build this, build this framework, make it a little more robust, and then we can get into. To fight or flight in the autonomic nervous system as well. So pain is, is interesting because we used to think that pain was something that we was experiencing the body and just reflexively reflected in the brain. There was a, like, we used to think there was a pain signal coming from the body and it would just be reported to the brain. And we now know that it's much more nuanced and complicated than that and that the brain actually takes in inputs from the body and the brain determines whether or not to create an output of pain. So pain is essentially an emotional signal created by the brain as part of our brain's strategy for protecting us. Our brains, right. Our brains want to ensure that we survive, that we don't get injured, that we're not susceptible to being eaten or harmed. So our brains don't want us to stretch farther, so they keep us tight. They don't want us too fast or create too much force, so they keep us more limited and weaker and keep us in these more narrowly confined margins of safety.
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Absolutely.
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And pain.
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And I see that with like. Sorry, I interrupted you, I apologize. You were just giving me ideas about, like, when I'm working with a client, I will notice that whether it's kissing knees, you know, obviously that's a protection. Right. Are somewhere in their brain, some fall, something happened that their brain immediately was like, if I'm going to go down, if I'm going to fall, I'm going to go in with my knees. Or if we're talking about the different walks that, that people have with brain injuries, it all stems from a fear, I believe that the brain is trying to protect them because I'm, you know, I may not remember what happened, but somewhere along trying to heal my body is wanting to protect me. So I'm going to do something, I'm going to circumduct, I'm gonna, you know, do one of these things because my body needs to be protected. So go ahead.
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And that is, that is such a powerful realization. Exactly what you said there. Because that, that's completely true. And there's so many times where we might feel like our bodies are fighting against us and it's Doing it for a reason. Our bodies don't want to create tension, to waste energy or they don't, they don't want us to, to be harmed or limited. They're trying to keep us safe body and the nervous system specifically is trying to do what it thinks is going to keep us safe. And so it does, it limits our, you know, creates tension, weakness and it creates pain in a response. And pain is created in response to perceived threat or the perceived threat of harm in the future. So it's a brain, is a prediction machine, it's looking towards the future and it's essentially a fear based phenomenon where it's, it's afraid that something bad might happen if we do this. And so it creates pain as a signal to tell us not to do that, to change our behavior, to do something differently, etc. So that also speaks to, or that also brings us to the autonomic nervous system and the, the fight or flight. So we know if we're in parasympathetic rest and digest mode where we're more calm, better able to handle whatever we're dealing with in that moment in time. And then if that system gets overwhelmed, we go to the fight or flight. We have to mobilize energy that's productive when it's needed. But if we're constantly in that state, of course that, as you know, as your listeners know, that can lead to all sorts of problems. Being chronically stressed and having that system turned on when it's no longer needed. And so that's a lot of what happens with chronic pain. And one of the cool thought experiments that I like to use, and I'll share this with you right now. So imagine you're listening to this episode and you're in the car, or you're in the room and you open the car door, you exit the room and all of a sudden you see a big scary venomous snake. For you to feel that psychological arousal and you to mobilize, that's productive because it gives you energy to scan your surroundings to see if you can escape or see if you can find an implement if you need to fight and defend and protect yourself. So it's productive in that moment. And then imagine that you're, you know, your, your home. If you have children or a younger niece or nephew or someone who throws a little cute little toy snake your way.
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Right?
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Imagine if you react the same way to that.
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Right, Exactly.
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Then you're, you can imagine that's, that's counterproductive. And so, right. A lot of times it's about.
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Great analogy. I'm going to steal that if you don't mind.
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You're welcome to.
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Thanks.
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So a lot of times it's about teaching the nervous system to calibrate appropriately because so many times it's reacting to an injury as if it just happened yesterday. Even though it was three, six, twelve or months ago and the tissue is actually healed, the nervous system is just still stuck in that pattern of protecting around it in many ways, including creating that signal of pain. And that's a big part of what we want to do in the new FIT method and generally is what we want to do is give the nervous system an opportunity to learn, to recalibrate, to re. Educate those various pathways and understand that it no longer needs to engage those protective patterns at those exact same alarm levels exactly.
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And I think that that's so interesting because you see that so often with people. They'll, they'll see a fear that doesn't really need to be there, but they can't quite get over things like, you know, I'll tell a client that, you know, they might have fallen one time. So now that fear is that they're all, even though that's, that's gone away, but they'll, they'll kind of come down a little bit, but the chair's right there, so there's no concern. It's right there. Big comfy couch or something. But there's still that fear of, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm, I'm going to hit the ground and I'm. And it continues. And it might have been three years ago, but there is that fear. I think, especially with when you're talking about autoimmune diseases, there's that constant fear. Even if it doesn't make any sense. There's always a fear of, of something. You know, it's always, I call it the Chicken little. You know, it's, it's just there's always something that is a fear. And so I kind of go into that too with, you know, is this a practical fear that something is really going to happen or is this somehow, you know, something that is that you're fearing for some reason and kind of getting into that. So I'm going to use everything you're saying and copying that because you're saying it much better than I could. So I love that. And I really have the chronic pain. I love what you, that, what you gave me. Neurological issue. I do 100% agree with that, that we get it. How often do you have Someone come in, use the newbie and say, oh, it's not going to work. You know, I get that a lot. I'll say, we're going to do this today. Let's say it's a stroke or Ms. And I'll get, you know, the baby skateboard. And I'll say, okay, we're going to use before I even have it out. Like it's, it's not going to work. Nothing works for me. So how do you guys deal with that? And the, again, the brain level and the practical fear and the impractical.
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That is, That's a really good question. At, at some level, I think that's a psychological protective response just the same as pain.
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Yeah.
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And weakness and tightness are neurological neuromuscular protective responses. I think that's a protective response. You know, one not wanting to get their hopes up.
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Right.
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Because things haven't worked in the past and they've been disappointed and so they're guarding against the sadness of disappointment.
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Right.
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So it's, it's interesting just, just as a slight tangent, it's so interesting to, to see the similarities in psychological and behavioral compensatory patterns, physical and movement based compensatory patterns because.
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Right.
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They're both natural strategic responses to.
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Yeah.
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Perceptions. Perceptions of threat and fears of, of what may happen. So.
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Yeah.
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Just very, very interesting. Interesting.
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Yeah.
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And then at the same time I think the person is there because they still, there's still at least a small part of them that believes.
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Right.
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Something can happen and something. And so I want to find a way to speak to that part of them.
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Yes.
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You know, responsibly without over promising and creating falsehood.
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Right.
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And so, you know, I, I think that I, you know, we've, we've generally had good results in terms of, excuse me, in terms of being able to get people like that motivated with a combination of some education on just basic levels of the nervous system and neuroplasticity helping them understand is at least whether it's with us or not, there is at least a mechanism by which and a path along which some healing and some improvement is possible. And we share with them some evidence and some other stories, you know, so a little bit of educational content to get them motivated. And then I think it's also a matter of having something that's powerful enough and targeted enough, effective enough that can help them start to see at least some glimpses of progress, even if it's very minor, you know, early on. Because nothing motivates like results. So seeing results Especially when you've been stalled for a long time.
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Right. 100%. Before we go in, because then I want to talk about. About the. About what it is so people understand. I have a question. Obviously, cognitive issues. We're talking about plastic brain plasticity, obviously something that is well known now. You know, while years ago, they were like, what. I remember asking about that to my neurologist. He's like, I don't even. That's not even something that. That is real. I was like, okay, so now it's. It's so exciting to see and talk to us about how, how newbie, how that helps with cognitive issues and, and also the, the feelings of just, you know, all of those things that we're not going to get better. How many physicians have said to my clients and patients, there's no hope. You're not. You are not going to get better. And I am always like, like, we're going to take this and show them. Yes, you will. Yes, you can. So talk to us about those things.
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There's a few, a few parts to that. One is the broad concept of neuroplasticity.
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Right.
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And then there's applications, and then I think there's. There's sort of different categories of that in terms of movement and neuromuscular function and cognitive function. So I'll separate those. But the same concepts of neuroplasticity apply generally. So neuroplasticity, as you said, is. You, Kathy, said that, you know, it wasn't even believed that it was possible as, you know, a decade or two ago. And so we used to think generally across the field of neuroscience, that that once the brain reached a certain age, in a certain point, it could no longer change its structure and function. And the more modern science on that shows that even though it's not as plastic, as able to change as. As it is during critical periods in childhood and adolescence, sure is still significant, meaningful possibility for neuroplasticity, for the brain and nervous system to change even in adulthood. And so what is neuroplasticity? Well, it's. Move it or lose it. The title of this podcast is very applicable. So neuroplasticity is just. Is. Is not neither positive nor negative. It's neutral. It's the right. It's the capability of changing in response to stimulus. So, yes, what is environmental input or environmental stimulus? And so a good example of that that I think often helps people understand is to think about what it would be like to grow up, you know, here in the United States versus to grow up In Beijing, China, if you're here in the United States, you're going to be hearing English or Spanish and you're gonna, your brain is going to come to understand the, the phonetics, the sounds of, of those languages and those words. Whereas when you grow up in Beijing, China, you're going to hear, you know, Mandarin or Cantonese and you're going to hear a different set of sounds. And so as you learn to speak and, and you learn to, to hear and understand, you end up, end up having a totally different experience and you learn to speak. You know, of course, if we speak their language, we have accent. If they speak our language, they, they have accents. And we can't make all of their sounds. They can't make all of our sounds. It's because we didn't, we didn't come preloaded with those languages. That's what we learned from, from the environmental stimulus and input. And so.
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Right.
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We're a reflection of the inputs that we receive in the environment in which we live. So that's, that's, that's generally what neuroplasticity is. And then how do we harness that capacity to adapt and change? Well, if you have a neurodegenerative condition, you have a neurological injury, neuroplasticity is the opportunity to potentially recover or heal from that. Not the promise that you can, but the opportunity to make change. And so that could mean in the brain, it could mean re. Establishing new connections to make detours around areas that were damaged.
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Right.
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In the peripheral nervous system, it could mean healing or regenerating or regrowing nerve pathways. Excuse me.
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It's okay. We all have this thing right now. So it's like, what is this?
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So some sort of respiratory.
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Right.
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So my kids, yeah, my kids were out of school for, you know, one was one week and the next one. And then I guess I finally got whatever. Yeah, I held out, but finally got it.
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Yeah, I know it's always going to get you those kids.
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So the, so the opportunity to change is there. There's a question of then how do we, how do we tap into that capacity for change? And it's a matter of creating enough. Remember we talked about environmental input and stimulus to create enough stimulus so that the body gets the point that, hey, these nervous system pathways are important. We're using them enough. They're important enough that they're actually worth the energy and resources to invest, to build up and then maintain. It takes energy to build. It takes energy just to maintain neurological pathways to send those electrical signals all day long. It takes energy to get those sodium and potassium pumps moving and to send these ions down.
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Yeah.
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Channel.
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So 100%. I have a. Do you have a. Because I've, I've used this just because I. It's something that I've learned is that when I'm with patients or clients. Do you agree with this? You can have bad neuroplasticity. Right. So I'll tell patients a lot. We have to go back. We have to go back to go forward because some of the plastic neuroplasticity that you have because just to first survival, just to get from one place to another, it may not have been the best. We may not. We may have to go back to go forward to learn some good brain plasticity, to be where you want to be. So thoughts on that?
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100. Yeah, I mean, I know I have and I, I would pose the question to everyone listening to this. You know, do you have patterns that you wish were different or that you'd like to be different or that at one point in life may have served you and no longer do? Those are examples of neuroplasticity or, you know, those are, those are examples of maladaptive changes. They may have been appropriate at the time, but yeah, we may want to go back and reset or refresh those.
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Right.
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So. So certainly. And then I also think the point that you made about neuroplasticity can be good or bad is extremely powerful because it is. Neuroplasticity is just the capacity to change. We can change better or change for the worse.
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Right.
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And the, the use it or lose it or move it or lose it is is the biggest, I think factor of that because the, the biggest way that we have the downside of neuroplasticity is lose it, you know, is by not. By not moving, not using it. Yeah, especially, especially, you know, it's important for, for everyone to maintain to, to engage in some minimal level of movement of their bodies just to maintain their baseline level of function. When, when one has a neuro neurodegenerative condition, that, that amount of work that it takes just to maintain is even more. It's not fair. It's just the way it is.
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Right.
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And so if you don't reach that minimum just to maintain takes even more than that to improve.
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Right, right.
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And. And to support it with proper sleep and strategies for controlling inflammation and nutrition and all that.
- [30:42]
B
Right, right. And so I love, by the way, the book. I wanted to compliment you before I lose it cognitively, I want to make sure that I Compliment you. I so appreciate when a book is. Obviously, I can't see out of my right eye. It's just an ornament, so. But I really, truly appreciate when the. When the author reads it, because I. The time I'm in the middle of writing, so I'm like, oh, gosh, I know I have to do this, but the time of trying to read that. At the same time, I love the book. I've been listening to it. Um, so thank you for not only doing. If you haven't seen it, it's the. The new fit method. And so we'll talk a little about the method. But I just wanted to thank you for reading it to us because for all those who need to have it on audible, thank you for putting it out there and thank you for reading it yourself. That was. It was such a great thing to have you have your voice on there and not some person's voice that I'm like, who is this? And so that was a gift. So thank you.
- [31:47]
A
Oh, wow. You're welcome. And thank you. That was. It was actually a really fun experience. I was in a recording studio for two days, and the whole book experience was really fun and wonderful and. And trying and long and.
- [32:03]
B
Yeah. Well, thank you for doing it. I think it'll help a lot of people understand a lot of what we're talking about today.
- [32:10]
A
So I'm. I'm also. I'm glad I wrote it in the. In the days before Chat GPT. So we know that.
- [32:16]
B
Right?
- [32:17]
A
Wrote it.
- [32:18]
B
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That Chat bc. So, yeah, definitely.
- [32:24]
A
So in. In terms of the. The neuroplasticity discussion, that is sort of the. The dark side is that it's. It also describes why things can get worse sometimes.
- [32:35]
B
Right.
- [32:35]
A
Precipitously and sharply, if one is not meeting those minimum criteria for just maintaining, let alone improving.
- [32:43]
B
Right. For sure.
- [32:45]
A
That's sort of the frame of neuroplasticity that I think is at least most useful for us. And then there's, of course, the question of how do we harness it? And then there's the realm of movement and neuromuscular function. Then there's the realm of cognitive function.
- [33:01]
B
Talk to me about the cognitive. Because we have a lot of. Well, that was. That was probably my first one of my first symptoms. NER was my eye. And then the cognitive. Just following it was those. I mean, I was so young and I followed my cousin back to Lansing in Michigan, which is an hour away, instead of going home into, you know, where I look, which is, you know, almost over an hour. And I thought, I don't even have an idea why I did that. And it was simple things. Like I went to go help my, my youngest with homework, and I was like, I don't know how to do math. I don't know how to do. It was all these things that I was losing. And I would say definitely with stress and things that have happened. I recently went through a divorce and I could really tell cognitively. So back to what you're talking about, where the brain without sleep, stress, that, that all plays so much into the cognitive issues. And I was noticing, like, whoa, I'm missing dates. I'm missing, you know, I'm missing, like, things that I would never miss and doing things I would never do. So talk to us about how this works for cognitive issues.
- [34:14]
A
So I first want to say, just in full transparency, the most of the, you know, home run outcomes and success stories for which we're best known or that people are celebrating, you know, a majority of those are more in the movement realm. There's cognitive components. So we're working more with, you know, more and more in the movement realm. There's connections to the cognitive realm. And I also will say that, you know, most of our, most of our work is body based and autonomic nervous system based. And so there are connections, of course, there's strong connections between movement of the body and the effect on the brain. Like, there's. There's a great book called Spark. I think, I think the author is like Dr. Rayti or Reiki.
- [35:05]
B
Okay.
- [35:07]
A
And. And he talks about all of this research, just lays out beautifully all of the research documenting the effects of bodily exercise.
- [35:17]
B
Yes.
- [35:17]
A
On neurotransmitter release in the brain, on BDNF and these other growth factors that help increase the production of either brain cells or connections between them, and also vascular endothelial growth factors. So in microvasculature and new capillaries and blood vessels in the brain for increasing blood flow, even if we're not directly putting pads on the brain cranium or the skull, we're still having a profound effect because the effects of exercise, just bodily exercise on the brain are profound. And when we use neurological stimulation like that of the newbie device, those effects can be amplified and be even greater.
- [35:58]
B
Yeah, 100%. And the fact that you're doing, you know, for us, I think cognitive stuff for me and for different clients and patients, it's that repetition. So going in and doing the repetition again is just another bonus for cognitive issues.
- [36:14]
A
Yeah, for sure. And so There's a lot of things. And of course, one of the biggest reasons that we have such large brains is to control such a breadth, such of complex movement patterns. We're the only animals who can walk and crawl and swim and throw and implement and freeze.
- [36:32]
B
Right, Right.
- [36:33]
A
So being able to do all that. So, so getting better control of movement certainly helps the brain as well. So there's many levels to that connection. And we do often hear. I don't know if we have as much specific data on this, but we do have some data, for example, on improving sleep in Parkinson's patients.
- [36:54]
B
Yeah.
- [36:55]
A
Autonomic nervous system function generally is sort of the next, next pillar I'll talk about. So we have this connection between movement of the body and stimulating the nervous system and how those signals up to the brain, and of course, brain sending signals back down to improve control, how strengthening that pathways and how that generally can improve brain function. Yes. And then there's also the autonomic component which has a big effect, like you talked about, Kathy, about how you notice if you don't get as much sleep or your inflammation is up, there's a strong inflammatory, autoimmune, inflammatory component to that.
- [37:31]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [37:32]
A
So. So being able to control the autonomic nervous system because when your vagus nerve, your parasympathetic nervous system is stimulated, it has a negative feedback loop with inflammatory activity in the body. It'll actually call them inflammatory activity. So, so we have certain protocols that we use that work on activating the parasympathetic nervous system. Some of it is by direct vagus nerve stimulation, some of it is by creating these whole body electric fields. And we're actually doing some work right now, research to sort of clarify the exact mechanisms there, how much of it is vagus nerve versus how much these whole body electric fields and influences. And in, in the meantime, we see significant improvements in heart rate variability and parasympathetic activation.
- [38:18]
B
Right.
- [38:18]
A
We know that it works even if, even if we don't know whether it's 50, 50 or 80, 20 between these different mechanisms.
- [38:24]
B
But I have so many questions for you. The other thing I have is like we see so much now the anxiety. Right. So we're talking about the, the brain and how using this helps the, you know, what, what is really from the brain? What is really something to fear and what is not. Have you found a lessening in, in the anxiousness that people are. I gosh, I hear it every day. So are you feeling, are you seeing that when we kind of break down the fear in the brain we often,
- [38:56]
A
often hear that people say they feel less anxious, they feel better, more mentally clear. You know, hear that anecdotally.
- [39:05]
B
Yeah, I would assume so.
- [39:06]
A
And I think there's a couple reasons for that. I mean first it is interesting to draw the parallel again between how, you know, these movement based protective patterns are in response to fear of getting injured. Anxiety is a psychological response to the fear of something bad might happen later.
- [39:23]
B
Right.
- [39:23]
A
So it's very, very, very similar. So there's also a very interesting connection. And this is not necessarily the source of all anxiety, but for many people, for many people creating more relaxation of bodily tension.
- [39:38]
B
Right.
- [39:39]
A
Also be a huge boost for reducing anxiety. And it's so interesting to sort of think about this. Like imagine just waking up for the day, brain's coming on, your consciousness is coming online and it's like, oh, you know, it's a, it's a nice day. Nothing, nothing going on. The brain sort of scanning and all of a sudden it's like, okay, there's nothing really to worry about. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh wait, our chest is tense. Yeah, there must be something to worry about, right? Yeah, it's sort of, it's, it's not getting a signal from outside, but it's getting a signal from inside because of these patterns of tension that we carry. And so doing this work with the nervous system in the body to release some of these patterns of tension, which is a process and which thankfully can be accelerated with approaches like the new fit method that can get rid of some of the underlying, we'll say, triggers for anxiety. So it's so interesting to understand how the brain body connection is a two way street. Of course, the brain sends signals down to control the body and tell it what to do. It also receives signals from the body that are a strong influence on how the brain perceives and organizes and processes and the outputs that it creates too.
- [40:51]
B
Sure.
- [40:52]
A
So you can actually anxiety oftentimes I perceive that we approach it as that sort of top down brain first cognitive approach. It also can be improved from a bottom up body first approach.
- [41:06]
B
Right, I like that. Thank you.
- [41:11]
A
And and then also, you know, doing the work like with our master Reset.
- [41:16]
B
Yeah.
- [41:17]
A
Protocol or that, that vagus nerve or autonomic nervous system.
- [41:20]
B
Right.
- [41:21]
A
Version of that that we do can also be very helpful for helping to create more parasympathetic activity and reduce that, that kind of.
- [41:28]
B
Yeah.
- [41:29]
A
Hyper overdrive, hyperactivity, sympathetic nervous system. So. Sure. So the body's no longer reacting to the toy snake. As if it was a real venomous snake.
- [41:39]
B
Right, right, exactly. With the new FIT method that's going on, so you've got people that, that can start to really understand it, to use it so that they can do that. How does that work? They can go ahead and kind of work with it. They can learn the method.
- [42:00]
A
So we have different offerings, you know, so, so it's probably 80, 20 in terms of 80% of the people who have our device, they have the newbie are using it in a clinical practice, whether it be a physical therapy clinic or an activity based gym or, or chiropractic office or you know, it's also used in athletic training facilities and with professional sports teams and universities and places like that too. So yeah, you know. Right, those places. And then 20% of the devices that are out there are used by individuals in their home for a variety of reasons. So yeah, we have offerings for, you know, if you listen to this, are a clinician, if you work with patients or clients in any sort of rehabilitation or movement oriented capacity, you know, we have a full suite of training that you can go through to learn how to implement the new FIT method with your clientele.
- [43:02]
B
And then, which I love that, I think that's great.
- [43:05]
A
And then, and then for, for anyone listening to this, if you're, if you're thinking, oh, that's not me, I just would be interested in trying this for myself. So there's, there's a couple options. One is you can go to our website and there's a directory on there of at the time of this recording, many hundreds of clinics, excuse me, around North America that are certified in and offering the new FIT method. And then if for any reason, you know, there's not one near you or that's not accessible or doesn't work, there's an opportunity to, you know, if it's a good fit and you have the appropriate medical sign off and such, you know, then, then there's an opportunity to rent or perhaps purchase a device to use at home so you can have ongoing work. Because it does take daily effort.
- [43:55]
B
Right.
- [43:55]
A
Just to maintain, let alone to improve.
- [43:57]
B
Yeah. When dealing, do you find that difficult that you have the people do it daily to get them to like come out? I mean. Well, yeah, I mean that would be my question because if, if I'm seeing something after two times I use it, I'm going to be there every day working with it. I'm going to be like, yes, but do you still have those people that are like, well, I tried it last week or the week before, and I'm going to do it maybe next week. And you're just like,
- [44:27]
A
so that's where it's really up to us to communicate the importance of doing something daily. So it doesn't necessarily have to mean you're. You're doing something on the newbie every day, but it.
- [44:40]
B
Right.
- [44:40]
A
It can, you know, and what it would look like is not we're going super hard every day because we do need time to recover and integrate and adapt. So it's usually, you know, perhaps something like more challenging on the lower body one day, more challenging on the upper body another day, more restorative and more mobility oriented on another day. Maybe it's that master reset another day. So you're alternating more intense, less intense.
- [45:06]
B
I love that. So you can do something different each day, which I don't think that we kind of got into that. It will go there because I want to, in the couple minutes we have, I want to talk about how. And we'll put the website so they can see it and all that, how it connects to you and what it does. And, you know, how. How does this thing even work? And so I want, I want them to see it because I think for a lot of us, seeing it is like, is. Oh, okay, I get it. You know, this, this is how it works. And so. Yeah, so go ahead. And I wanted to hear your thoughts on that.
- [45:39]
A
So in terms of how it works, one of the, One of the techniques that most are probably most recognizable from our work is this mapping process where we can actually take one of the electrodes and scan around on your body to find exactly which neurological pathways are underpowered or hypersensitive or guarding or limited and inhibited. And then we can know exactly where to stimulate to get those pathways up and running and, and begin the process of trying to create enough stimulation to reach that threshold that you actually trigger the neuroplastic adaptations within the body. And you could do that on your own through movement. Well, if. As long. As long as you're in a situation where you can move, if you can't move, then you can't do it. So it allows people who can't move to start to get those. Those inputs, those repetitions neurologically. And also, even if you can move, this allows us to get so much more. And one of the metaphors that I really like is that it's. It's like you're traveling a distance, say, from Texas to Michigan. Where I am. Where you are.
- [46:43]
B
Yeah.
- [46:45]
A
If, if you have this fixed distance to cover, there's nothing you can do about that. But you can choose whether you're gonna, you know, walk or ride a horse or drive a car or take an airplane. And so this is sort of like the equivalent of turning it from a road trip to an airplane trip.
- [47:04]
B
Yeah. Which I'd be totally for.
- [47:06]
A
Yeah. You still have to cover the same distance. You still have to do, you know, hundreds of thousands of repetitions. You're just going to get the input that's going to allow you to reach that equivalent amount faster.
- [47:17]
B
Yeah. Give us one of the stories that are in the book, or I know that you talk about there's different patients and stuff that you can't use their full name. But one of the patients that have seen a big difference in using it.
- [47:35]
A
One of the stories actually in the book, the Newfoot Method, is story of Wendy, who has given us permission to use her name and share her story. So she had Ms. For 20 something years and had been wheelchair bound, you know, progressively got worse. And she'd been wheelchair bound for almost 10 years by the time she came to see us. She actually went down from. Came down from Wisconsin to Texas to work with us. And she came down for a one week intensive to begin. So she was with us five days. And she had been, you know, in the position where in the previous couple of years she had to give up her driver's license. She was teaching at a school, could no longer do that, and she got to the point where she required a caregiver at home. So things, you know, it had been pretty rough.
- [48:21]
B
Yeah.
- [48:23]
A
In the. Actually I got to work with her when she came down to visit. So we did two sessions on Monday and on Tuesday she came in and she said, hey, look what I can do. And so for the first time in a couple of years, she, you know, her knees were bent. Sitting in the wheelchair, she straightened her leg, lifted her foot.
- [48:40]
B
Wow.
- [48:40]
A
To kick it out. Yeah, that was pretty cool. And then at the end.
- [48:43]
B
Yeah, that's awesome.
- [48:45]
A
At the end of the second day, her husband and I were bending down to put on our shoes and socks like we had done for the first few sessions. And she said, wait a second, give me. You know. So then she was able to get enough mobility in her hips to actually hinge down.
- [48:58]
B
Wow.
- [48:59]
A
Go down to put on her own shoes and socks.
- [49:01]
B
That's so awesome. That's really awesome. Yeah. So I really want to have you. I really want to show. I should do like a short one with you where we can show that you in the clinics, one of the clinics where they can actually see what this is and see how it's used. I just think it's. For me, I know when I had my, my. When I could watch it, it was so different. I was like, this is amazing. And I just couldn't get over it. So that's why I had to have you on. I was like, you know, this. I can't get over it. I just can't get over how amazing this. This is. This whole machine, this, all of it is just so freaking amazing. So I was so excited about, you know, where we're going with electrical stimulation and how it's working. And you just. You just have it. I mean, you just got it. And I was like, this is just. Again, I mean, I just am so excited about. For so many of us, we only. We've only known, I think, 20 something years ago with medication. Medication. One of the things that. Because I'm so competitive, you know, we're not all like that. But they said it was a vhs. They're like, well, you'll be able to go on a stroll later. I'm like, a what? I'm like, no. So I just got on a bike, ran. So there's some of us that are like that, and there's some that are just so beaten down, exhausted. So for. What you do is just. Is phenomenal. The people that you help and how this works is. So tell us real quick, tell us how. How we already talked about how they can get into a clinic if they've never used it. They could find one in their area, stuff like that. So I just think that's so exciting. So if you have someone that you would want to. And then we'll talk after, we'll close this. But if you had someone that you wanted to really get a point across, why would they. Why would they use this? Let's talk about again, since this Move or lose it. They've just been diagnosed with, let's say, multiple sclerosis, and they've lost. They're losing the ability to walk. They've been told they're going in a wheelchair. What would you say? Why would they want to use the newbie?
- [51:10]
A
Well, I think it's a good segue into continuing Wendy's story after those first two days at our clinic. She continued to see other glimpses of progress throughout that week, so much so that she decided to rent a device to bring back to Wisconsin with her so she could continue. And over the next several months, she was very diligent she did, you know, did work on the device four or five days per week, and she eventually reached her initial goal, which was being able to get out of her wheelchair and walk holding her husband's hand.
- [51:43]
B
Wow.
- [51:44]
A
And then a year later, she. She achieved her dream stretch goal of being able to walk her son down the aisle at his wedding.
- [51:50]
B
Oh, wow. That's so good. That's really awesome.
- [51:53]
A
And along the way, she. She was able to give up her caregiver at home and. And actually get her driver's license back. She went and took her test to get her driver's license back, so.
- [52:04]
B
Wow. What a celebration.
- [52:06]
A
Yeah, I think. I think, you know, it could be for different people. It might be stories of inspiration like that.
- [52:14]
B
Right.
- [52:15]
A
And then for others, it might be talking about some of the. These mechanisms that we've discussed in the last hour and absolutely understanding the pathways for how some of this can be helpful. So. Yeah, probably a mix of those types.
- [52:28]
B
Yeah. For sure.
- [52:29]
A
Things that I would share.
- [52:31]
B
Yeah. Thank you. So I cannot even tell you how much I appreciate you being on. I mean, I can keep you forever, but I know there's other things you have to do. But, Garrett, I mean, honestly, I'm so excited about. About all of this. About what newfit, about the method. I just am. I'm really hoping that a lot of people will. Will just really tune into this, but they can reach you what you've. I know. I'll put your website and all that stuff down, but anything else, obviously, I'll put the book down. I really, really appreciate that. I know a lot of our listeners will. That cannot are not able to read a book anymore. I just smell the books now because I love that smell. So. But thank you so much for being here, for talking to us and explaining more about the newbie. And on there, too, I'll put. We'll do a video so people can see at the end how it works with people and how they use it. So. Yeah. Thank you so much.
- [53:22]
A
Thank you.
- [53:23]
B
Joy to have you.
- [53:24]
A
Yes. Pleasure to be here with you movers and with you, Kathy. This was great.
- [53:27]
B
Thank you. All right, listeners, so this will be on in a few weeks, and I will let you know. And don't forget to subscribe and, like, give me your input and feedback and have a great day. Don't forget to move it or you'll lose it. So talk to you guys later. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the Move it or Lose it podcast. It would mean the world to me if you subscribed and left a review. Remember, you can find me on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher and YouTube. New episodes of the Move it or Lose it podcast air every other Wednesday. If you have any suggestions suggestions for future guests or topics, please visit my website@www.msdisrupted.com. until next time.