Move It or Lose It | Episode 147 | Nate West and Dennis White: Service and Strength Beyond Limits

Summary

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Move It or Lose It | Episode 147

Nate West and Dennis White: Service and Strength Beyond Limits

Host: Kathy Chester
Guests: Nate West & Dennis White
Date: March 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Move It or Lose It highlights the unique journey of two military veterans—Nate West and Dennis White—living with Multiple Sclerosis (MS). Host Kathy Chester, herself an MS warrior and trainer, leads a heartfelt and practical conversation about transitioning from military life after a chronic diagnosis, advocating within the VA system, and the importance of fierce self-advocacy and community for veterans with autoimmune conditions. The episode is rich with actionable advice, honest storytelling, and resources for veterans and their families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Service Backgrounds and MS Diagnoses

• Nate West served 22 years in the Army, discharged in 2022 after a 2019 MS diagnosis, which retrospectively had signs as early as 2013.
  • Quote: "I was really good at ignoring my body. I guess the military training taught me to ignore pain, ignore everything, and just push through."
    (Nate, 03:45)
• Dennis White left the Marines in 1993; his MS was diagnosed much later, in 2014, with a pivotal link to having contracted mono while serving overseas.
• Both shared struggles with memory issues, foot drop, and delayed diagnosis due to either personal denial or fragmented military/civilian medical records.

Notable Segment:

• Nate’s Timeline of Symptoms and Diagnosis
  [04:12–05:14]: Overcompensating for past knee injuries masked his MS symptoms, delaying correct diagnosis.

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2. Navigating Medical Discharge and VA Systems

Nate’s Fight for Benefits

• Upon medical discharge, Nate faced a system offering minimal disability compensation, failing to account for service injuries, PTSD, and MS complications.
  • Quote: "They wanted to get me out immediately, and I said no... They were trying to give me 30%, so they weren't factoring in PTSD, three knee surgeries, or anything else that I was exposed to... I just kept on telling them no every chance I got, which—the military is so good at hearing the term no—sarcasm 100% intended."
    (Nate, 06:29–08:20)
• He leveraged the VA’s own documentation to advocate for fairer compensation and retirement, successfully navigating the appeals system with legal support.

Dennis’ Path and Mono Link

• Dennis utilized VA medical resources, learning years later that his MS was likely triggered by mono contracted in Okinawa—now understood as a risk factor.
  • He eventually hired a law firm specializing in veterans’ claims: "They don't take any money from you until they win you a percentage, and then they only take like, 10% of the back pay."
    (Dennis, 18:44)

Actionable Advice:

• Go through reliable VA resources only for information ([09:50]).
• Explain your symptoms on your “worst day” to doctors and for paperwork; be thorough about changing capacity, fatigue, or pain ([10:49]).
• Use the Disability Benefits Questionnaire (DBQ) to understand and meet the criteria for higher disability ratings ([28:17], [28:51]).

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3. Advocacy, Appeals, & Support Systems

Barriers for Cognitively Challenged Veterans

• Kathy raises the issue of vets with brain injuries or cognitive impairments who cannot self-advocate online or through forms ([14:41]).
  • Support Solutions:
    • Lawyer support for active-duty and post-discharge
    • Involvement of family (“second set of eyes”) to help with forms and appeals

Community Support

• Veterans organizations (Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion) plus local groups and patient advocates (though quality varies) can assist ([30:56], [33:17]).
• Importance of having a mentor/veteran who’s successfully navigated the system: "Having somebody on your side that says, I’ve done it... I got the T-shirt."
  (Nate, 31:41–31:52)

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4. Devices, Therapies, and the Fight for Access

The MyoCycle and Other DME

• Dennis’s Fight:
  • Discovered the MyoCycle (an FES device for MS/spinal cord injury) after a severe fall, and faced repeated denials from the VA due to lack of familiarity.
  • Persisted through three levels of appeal (the third, to an external board) before finally being approved.
    • Quote: "I spent probably two years... If I knew what I know now, it probably wouldn’t take that long because I wasn’t real familiar with the appeal process."
      (Dennis, 21:10–22:28)
  • With regular use, was able to regain unassisted walking within two months: "By June, I was walking unassisted. So I was, like, on it every day. Doing it every day."
    (Dennis, 26:29–26:32)

Other Medical Equipment

• H Wave, Replexa Plus, and Bioness: all issued by the VA for pain management or mobility, though not always widely known ([34:16], [38:14]).
• Device Adjustment:
  • Importance of tailored programming—residual neuroplastic effects can cause frustration or require readjustment ([40:35]).

Variable Experiences

• Not all VAs are created equal. Some are proactive, others require appeals and education ([33:29], [37:44]).
• Persistence and community/peer support are crucial in accessing advanced treatments and durable medical equipment.

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5. The Psychological Toll and Ongoing Support

• Fatigue of Advocacy:
  • Many veterans give up on appeals due to exhaustion—the process itself aggravates MS symptoms ([27:37–28:01]).
• Coping and Community:
  • Kathy, Dennis, and Nate all stress the vital importance of connecting with others who “get it.” Groups like Modified by MS and men’s MS Zoom calls for mutual support and accountability ([38:14–39:21]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Advocacy: "Information is key, and you're using their information against them." (Nate, 29:13)
• On Military Training: "The military is so good at hearing the term no—sarcasm 100% intended." (Nate, 08:20)
• On Support: "Having somebody on your side that says, I’ve done it... I got the T-shirt." (Nate, 31:46)
• On Community: "They help hold you accountable—which I need. So many times... I need another dude to say, stop being a... and get off your ass." (Nate, 39:21–39:34)
• On Adaptive Devices: "I call it my Go Go Gadget machine... the fact that I have it is amazing." (Nate, 41:53)

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Important Timestamps

• Nate describes initial symptoms and diagnosis – [03:45–05:14]
• Fighting for fair military discharge and VA rating – [06:29–09:06]
• Advice on advocacy and using the VA (DBQ) – [28:17–29:13]
• Dennis’s MyoCycle journey (discovery through appeals) – [19:01–26:32]
• Support organizations and local resources – [30:56–31:32]
• Discussion on community and peer accountability – [38:14–39:34]
• Challenges of different VA centers – [33:29–37:44]
• Devices and adjusting tech for everyday life – [38:14–41:33]

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Tone and Takeaways

Relatable, frank, and supportive, the episode champions persistence and informed self-advocacy, while recognizing the emotional cost. Listeners are encouraged to seek out solid information (especially from the VA), leverage legal and peer resources, and not to give up (“I know how to fight it... and I know how to win”—Nate). Both guests urge veterans to connect with supportive communities for ongoing help.

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Resources Mentioned

• VA Disability Benefits Questionnaire (DBQ)
• MyoCycle, H Wave, Replexa Plus, Bioness (durable medical equipment)
• Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, local veteran/military organizations
• Modified by MS (support group, especially men’s calls)

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Closing

Kathy underscores the unique challenges and strengths of veterans navigating major diagnoses and the healthcare system, closing with gratitude for Nate and Dennis’s service and determination—and a reminder:

"We do have to move it. That is our best medicine."

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Your host, Kathy Chester and welcome to the Move it or Lose it podcast, a podcast about all things that move the mind, body and soul. The Move it or Lose it podcast is for information, awareness and inspirational purposes only. I am not a doctor and I don't even play one on tv, so please consult your doctor before making any medical decisions. The views expressed by advertisers, guests or contributors are their opinions and not necessarily the views of the Move it or Lose it podcast. Introducing the Pulse Device. Cutting edge wearable device, revolutionary wellness. Designed to stimulate circulation, reduce harsh pain and tightness, and speed up recovery. The Pulse Device uses advanced vibro tactile technology trusted by patients, clinicians and wellness professionals. Whether you're recovering from an injury, battling a neuro condition, or just want to feel the best every day, Pulse helps you rechange, recharge so that you can live and feel better. Lightweight, powerful and easy to use. Experience better performance, better recovery and a better you. Order now and save $30 using my code Ms. Disrupted@pulse device.com the Pulse device is your health recharged? You won't be disappointed. Get it now for yourself. I have it. I love it. Go ahead and grab it. Hello, welcome to another edition of Move it or Lose it. Today I have the honor of having some military veterans. So thank you very much you two and I will get you guys in your names for serving and protecting our nation. So I have been wanting to highlight some of our military and you'll see that throughout our series this year. And so you might notice that Dennis, I had you on. Dennis White. I've already had you on and thank you. You are going to help me with some of these interviews. And today we also have Nate West. These are names are easy. I haven't messed up. They won't be on my bloopers of messed up names. So thank you Nate for participating today. You are also a military vet. You served in the army, correct?

[C]

Yes, I was. I joined before 9 11. So I joined in August of 2000 and I finally got discharged in November of 2022. So my 22 years of service ended because I got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis

[B]

in 2019. WHO doesn't want that?

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

You were diagnosed actually the same year as my son.

[C]

Oh wow. I. Congratulations.

[B]

Right?

[C]

A horrible disease. But it was, it was a shock to me whenever I first found out. I was actually very, very upset and mad and I was dealing with a lot of survivor's guilt. Anyways, my combat tours because I dealt with explosives. So obviously I'm Unfit for military service after finding out with dead masks, especially with the memory issues. Sure. Not controlling.

[B]

Was that one of the first things. Nate, sorry to interrupt you. Was that one of the first things that affected you was memory?

[C]

I was really good at ignoring my body. I guess the military training taught me to ignore pain, ignore everything, and just push through. Sure. You know, they say, pick yourself up by your bootstraps or know mission first or.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So many other military quotes, but.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I didn't pay attention to my body.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But my family did.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So they saw the changes that was happening. I was actually having a lot of foot drop on my right side, but I was contributing that to a knee injury because I've had three knee surgeries on my left knee.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I thought I was overcompensating. Sure. But apparently that was for signs of Ms. Starting back in 2013.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

But I didn't get diagnosed until 2019.

[B]

Wow. So when they did your MRI, were they able to see back that you had it for quite some time?

[C]

Yes. The military is not great at communicating well with civilians, as Dennis put it. And I saw some off post doctors, and they actually did diagnose me with possible Ms. As early as July of 2013. The records were off post versus on post. So whenever I did final out of the military, they gathered all of my medical records together, and that's when I saw it.

[B]

Okay. Wow. So you get diagnosed, you get the news, and then what's. What's next for you?

[C]

Um, it is. Multiple sclerosis, or any autoimmune disease is pretty much a immediate medical chapter because you're no longer fit for duty. So they started me on a med board, which is what it's called in the Army, Dennis. I don't know what it's called in the Marines. I'm guessing something similar. But the medical board started, and I had to fight because they wanted to give me the bare minimum I was sitting at. As I said, I joined in 2000, so I was sitting at 19 years. They wanted to get me out immediately, and I said no. But they started the medical chapter, and I had to fight because I was sitting at 19 years. I wasn't at my full 20 for retirement age. And they were trying to give me, you know, basically 30% from the army and maybe 25 to 30% for the VA and I said no, and I had enough.

[B]

How do you fight that? When you say no? When you say no, they're not just going to say, oh, okay. So when you say no, what does that Mean, you have to do a lot, I'm. I assume. What does that mean?

[C]

There's appeal processes for everything. And they also give you a lawyer.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So I had a JAG lawyer advising me during the entire time. And they said, I'm thinking, as a

[B]

civilian, I'm looking at this like Top Gun, so.

[C]

Oh, absolutely. Which is naming. But they.

[B]

Dennis, you're laughing at me. So just that.

[C]

Yes. Well, most people think, you know, flight, so they think Air Force immediately and actually Navy, but. Yeah. So I was being advised by a military JAG lawyer, and I just started reading everything VA and found out that Ms. Is covered. It's a minimum of 30%, which. Oh, by the way, they were trying to give me 30%, so they weren't factoring in PTSD, three knee surgeries, or anything else that I was exposed to because my job was explosive. So it's technically called combat engineer, but we did route clearance, so we made sure the roads were safe, AKA we got blown up a lot.

[B]

So sounds like something I really want to get into, like, right now.

[C]

Oh, it's a blast. Absolutely.

[B]

Pun intended.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah. It's a lifelong joke, but, yeah. So I started reading up on all the things that I was supposed to receive, and I just kept on telling them no every chance I got, which. The military is so good at hearing the term no sarcasm. 100% intended

[B]

this. I know.

[C]

Yeah. They hated it. Every single time I said no or I fought something, there's like, why don't you just accept this? This is a good deal. I'm like, for you, not for my family.

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

And I kept on saying those words, and they. That was during the time frame that Covid was happening, and everything was shut down, so everything was online or via Zoom. So that gave me an opportunity to tell them, though, and, yeah, go see the doctors that I wanted to because they couldn't schedule things quickly.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So during their hurry up and wait, I was doing research.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I was finding people in my corner, and it worked to my benefit. I can't say that for everybody.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

A lot of military vets actually go out with that 30%, and then they have to fight for the other, you know, 70% to get to 100.

[B]

So questions for you guys. What do you both suggest? So this is why this. These podcasts are so important and why I really wanted to do them, because are so many veterans that don't know what to do, and they don't have that. Anybody to reach out to. They don't. They know. Okay. They got their 30, and they don't know what to do. What do you suggest? How do they reach out? Is there a community of veterans that they can reach out to?

[C]

In the world we live in today, everything is online. You can read as much as you want to, and I just suggest that you go to valid sources. I actually went through the VA website, and that's where I got most of my information. I used their information against them to say no. And whenever you go to these doctors, you have to explain it to them as if it's your worst day. Yes, with ms, we do have good days where we can do some of the things we normally do, but it's not every day. And I had to explain that as not only a service member, but as a patient of ms, because two weeks ago, I couldn't even get myself out of bed. I just physically couldn't. My body was not communicating well with my brain. I had no appetite. I didn't want to leave bed. I was extremely fatigued. And unfortunately, that's a new normal for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I had to. I had to learn to listen to my body and know what it needed. Sometimes I just need a day of rest.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Sometimes I can go out and do everything I want to with my kids.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But that's not the normal. And I had to explain that to doctors that what my new normal was.

[B]

How many doctors would you say understand multiple sclerosis?

[C]

I am blessed with a really good neurologist that does.

[B]

Wow. Good. Good to hear.

[C]

I'm originally from Missouri, but I ended up retiring here in Kentucky because of that. I did not want to move away from that really good doctor who actually listens to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And that is so hard to find.

[B]

Yeah. That I hear you.

[C]

Whenever I say something, they listen, and they put it in their notes.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And the next time I come in, it's documented that I don't like taking pain meds, even though I'm constantly in pain. The army taught me that I can easily be addicted to pain meds.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And they tried giving me all of them, and I said no.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't like side effects.

[B]

Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. I think that's why I've learned to work with different companies that are really trying to help us so that we're not using all of the medication. I think for me, it's been almost 30 years. I was diagnosed young as well. And I think, you know, back in the day when it was like, you can look forward to a stroll later, I was like, what so wanting to be in the military, I just would get. I would go and run it out and I would then make a phone call, you know, four miles in and say, okay, I didn't win today. I couldn't run the disease out, so pick me up. I'll do it again tomorrow. So it was so crazy for. To be told that I would take a stroll or a bike ride, you know, years later, I could not grasp that. It didn't make any sense. But, you know, being fit and knowing that I wanted to do training and stuff like that, it nothing. My grandfather had it, my aunt had it. Nothing that was said just to sit down and rest. None of that made sense. So because of my background in. In training, it was like, no, you have to move it or lose it. So you have to. You'll be atrophy. I was like, I am a big rule follower, but I will not follow that rule. I will move my body constantly so I don't lose anything. So I think that it's. I mean that, you know, in 2020, literally is when the society issued movement is your most important medicine. I was like, whoa, okay. Yeah, that is true. So frustrating because so much is unknown with Ms. And so obviously it's a great month to highlight veterans with multiple sclerosis, but with brain injuries or anything. It is. So I guess what I want to go a little bit further with you guys is. Okay, we know we can go. You gave great advice. Go to the go look on the VA website, right? Because they're going to give you. That's going to be the most reliable information rather than going on different websites that are. Could give you just people's opinions or some kooky stuff. What about those that cognitively. Now I'm still talking about Ms. Or stroke or any brain injury. Cognitively can't do that. Can't get onto a computer, can't cognitively remember what the arena can't think that far. Where's help for them? How do they get that out?

[C]

That's where. So for me, it was a. It was a lawyer because I was still active duty.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

For somebody that gets diagnosed after the military, Dennis, you might be able to help out, but I think it's eight years after you're discharged from the military. You have to claim Ms. And then you can also claim all of the subcomponents or what is affected by Ms. So like your cognitive ability is affected or your mobility is affected. Those are all secondary causes of the Ms. That you can claim. Whenever it comes to my cognitive Ability. I use that fight in me, and that. The anger that I initially felt from being diagnosed because I didn't know what Ms. Was, so I had to look it up. And whenever my kids or my wife would see that the stress of it was affecting my cognitive ability, they helped me out by having a second set of eyes to look over, you know, what I was looking at and being able to read it and understand it, which was a struggle. And those come into. Like, whenever you see those. Those doctors, they have a form that they have to fill out. Well, you can download the form.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's this. I know it has three initials. Everything has initials. Right. But it's basically your disability form.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I can't think of it right now.

[B]

You know what it is, Dennis?

[C]

Brain fog.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I can look it up.

[B]

But what are. What is the years, Dennis? Do you know that you have the.

[A]

What?

[B]

The year. Amount of years you have? Is it eight years?

[A]

It's seven or eight.

[C]

I.

[B]

Okay, yeah. Okay.

[C]

That's. That's where.

[A]

That's where I had the difficulty because my Ms. Was diagnosed. I got out in 93. My Ms. Wasn't diagnosed till 2014.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

My approach with the VA, I mean, at the time, I was going to the VA because years of years prior, I'd lost my. We had a big layoff at work, so I'd lost my job. And I was on. I was talking to another veteran, and he mentioned that, you know, I mentioned I lost my job, so I was looking for work, and he said that he was like, you know, you can go to the VA for your, you know, your medical stuff if you lost. And I was like, oh, okay. So I went to the va, applied, and I got, you know, benefits there. So.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I've been going to the VA for, you know, years, for. All right. Well, most of my medical stuff.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I was diagnosed with Ms. The VA sent me to Ohio State to get. Because they weren't sure. I was seeing just a neurologist at the va, and they weren't sure. So they were like, we need you to see a specialist. So they sent me to Ohio State, and Ohio State's the one that diagnosed me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But as far as things I was fighting for, I had pretty much good luck with the va, And I never. I never even thought that I could get my Ms. Service connected until years later, I found out that, you know, when I was serving in Okinawa, Japan, I got mono, which is our virus.

[B]

So right now, we know so much more about that.

[A]

Yeah. And I didn't know that until I started seeing an Ms. Specialist outside of.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And he was. You know, he asked me about my history with the military and if I were injured or anything, and I was like, no, really, the only thing that happens. I got mono in Japan.

[B]

Right. And then it was like, thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he said, well, you know, mono is linked to ms, so.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So that's when I started filing my claim for Ms. And I hired a law firm. And this law firm is, like, based in Texas, and they don't. They don't take any money for you from you until you. Until they win you a percentage, and then they only take, like, 10% of the back pay.

[B]

So why weren't you able to do, like, JAG or. Why weren't you able to do a military lawyer? Is that because you weren't?

[A]

I think that's because I wasn't on active duty.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

And they. So the way I approached it was I. I. I really didn't have to fight for anything until I wanted that mile cycle.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Mile cycle restored my ability to walk. So when I. When I found that, I called the company, and they were like, oh, if you're a vet, I mentioned I was a veteran. They said, oh, you're a veteran. Just request this through your va and they're like, list of veterans all over the country. And I'm like, okay.

[B]

Now, is that something that you had heard about Nate?

[C]

I was actually going to astonish. What is that?

[A]

Oh, it's a. It's an FES device.

[B]

Don't you have it out, like, a little.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why are you there in that messy area?

[A]

No, it uses electric stimulation, and it. It's kind of like a bicycle, but it's made for people with Ms. And people that have spinal cord injuries. So you can. If you were in a wheelchair, you just roll up to it and put your feet in the. In the pedals, and they strap yourself in, and then you have all these electrodes all over your legs. I use about 16, like, 20 electrodes

[B]

on my legs, so it's really, really neat. I've been able. I was able to watch a class, and it. It is really neat. But it's something that the military does provide, and I don't think most. I don't think most military men know that. And so I never.

[A]

I never even knew about it. You know what. What got me onto it was I had a bad fall when I was trying to ride a bike, and so I just googled bikes for ms, and this mile cycle thing came up. So I called the company and they, you know, they said, just request it through your va. So I went, I told my doctor about it at the va and he put in the request with pt, met with physical therapy and explained what the device was. And the lady was like, yeah, that sounds like it would be really helpful. She's like, I'll go ahead and submit the request. So I didn't hear anything back. And a while later I found out that it was denied. And I'm like, well, why isn't somebody calling me telling me it was denied? And so they said it was denied. And the reason was we don't supply bicycles to veterans. And I'm like, okay, they don't even know what this is. So, so I, I met with the head of, the head of physical medicine and the head of prosthetics to try to tell them what this was. And the lady at physical medicine, the head of physical medicine, she just, she didn't know what it was and she didn't even want to know what it was. She was just giving me this attitude about. She's like, oh, I see devices like this all the time, but that doesn't mean they work. And I'm like, yeah, but this is an FDA approved device for people with multiple sclerosis, so what are you talking about? And so I spent probably two years. If I knew what I know now, it probably wouldn't take that long because I wasn't real familiar with the appeal process. So I was contacting, you know,

[C]

different

[A]

organizations like Semper Fi Fund, you know, and I, I even contacted my congress person and their, their department was the ones that told me about the appeal process. So I would, I filed three appeals. The third appeal goes outside of the va, goes to like a board, and they, and they make a decision. So they, after my third appeal, they approved it for 12 weeks. So they sent it to me, came out and set it up. And I had to go in like every 30 days to get tested by the physical therapy to make sure it was working right. And I blew all their tests out of the water, so they ended up just giving it to me.

[B]

So I'm going to make you the contact person for when everybody talks and asks about the myocycle. I'm going to make you the contact person for that.

[A]

Yeah, all the time. Because it was so amazing because I went before I got it, while I was fighting for it, I did this clinical trial in Ohio. It's called therapy. It's a brain stimulation. And before I got that I worked 7am to 3:30pm and by 3:30 I was dead. I would just go later, go in bed and lay down and watch tv. Tonight I was just exhausted. So I learned about this TMS therapy through a, a veteran video that they were treating PTSD on with it.

[B]

Have you ever heard of that, Nate? No. Okay.

[A]

So I, he's giving me all kinds

[C]

of information I like, no, I'm going to forget. So I have to.

[B]

Yeah, no, I love that. And I, and I love. This is, you know, one of the things that is my heart that the veterans can share with each other. Knowledge that, you know, in the, the, you know, in the month of March. But also that this becomes something that I think is, is very important. Go ahead.

[A]

I called my Ms. Specialist in Ohio and I asked him, I said, have you ever heard of this TMS therapy? And it would have been, would it benefit people with ms? And he was like, yeah, I got a clinical trial right now with the. Do you want in on it? And I was like, yeah, definitely. So he got me in the trial. It was open to veterans and first responders and I had to go to Ohio to do it. So I'd spend. I, we. I work remote anyway so I could just work from Ohio. And I spent six weeks. It's like 12 minute treatments every day for six weeks. But while I was down there, I asked the TMS doctor if she was familiar with the myocycline if it would help with Ms. And she's like, oh yeah. She's like, that would be perfect. And she said, you want to try it? And I was like, yeah. So she set me up at Ohio State that has a mile cycle in their physical therapy department. And I did over that six week therapy sessions. I did seven 30 minute sessions on the mile cycle and they kept track of my progress and by the end they said my leg strength improved by 60%.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

That's really amazing that I was like, can you put that in writing? Because I want that for my appeal. So I had that letter from them. I had a couple letters from my doctors. Everyone's saying I should have it and it's still denied. But then I think it was my. After the second denial, I reached back out to my congressperson and I was like, look, keep denying this. You know how. What do I got to do? And they're like, they, they responded with file, file another appeal and that I'll sign the VA to a board and they'll make a decision. So I did that and then and they approved it, so.

[B]

And you have it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So I think that's really neat.

[A]

I think I got it in July or April of 2024.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And by June, I was walking on assisted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I was, like, on it every day. Doing it every day.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such an important thing that we fight for. Well, that you guys fight for. But if I have. I mean, I have this platform, so I want it to be used for things like this. And I think it's really important that veterans know about this and especially those who may be afraid to ask for those things. And I think, because, you know, you talked about that, Nate, that fight is in you. So those who get exhausted of advocating, I think for most of our veterans, most of our military, you are used to fighting for things. You are used to going to bat for things. And so do you think that gives you the strength to continue to advocate when you're told no? Do you think that that is just in you to just say, I'm sorry, I will continue to fight for this until you get that I need to have this?

[C]

It's not within everybody. I used that negative response to my benefit. But I see so many veterans that just give up quickly because there's, like, it's not worth the effort in the strain and the stress that it puts on your body, because stress really does affect Ms. So much.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

100%. It puts you in an extreme fatigue state. I was early in my diagnosis, and I was active duty, so I was still able to fight without it completely washing me out.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Now, I wouldn't be able to do that, but the form that I used, Disability Benefits Questionnaire, also known as a dbq. Those are the initials that I forgot. Dennis was right. It is seven years. I was under the impression that it was eight.

[B]

I'll have them at the bottom of the show notes, too, as everything in

[C]

the military, everything is subject to change. And that's why it's so important to get the information from a reliable source.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But whenever it came to those disability benefits questionnaires, that's what the doctors has to fill out. And I went off of that. The bottom of the form, it tells you exactly what you're needing to get 30% to get 50% to get 80% to get 100%.

[B]

Right.

[C]

It tells you what. What are the requirements?

[B]

Right.

[C]

And I went off of that and use that to my advantage, because information is key, and you're using their information against them.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And they want you to be denied the first couple of times they want you to fight because so many. So many people are trained to get that magic number of 100%, and they may not be qualified. And I understand that not everybody is qualified, but the people that do qualify for it should not have to fight that hard.

[B]

Right, Right.

[C]

To get the. Yes, because it is debilitating for us with ms, us as veterans to fight. And you see so many suicides and

[B]

so many other things that the depression is. Especially when we're talking about. Well, all of it. But when we're with our Vietnam vets, we've seen so much of that with turning to. With all of our veterans, but turning to alcohol, something to numb the pain, drugs, and suicide. And how many marriages make it with vets? Not many. And so I think that. To your point, what do we do with the vets that feel like you do right now? If I had to go through that again, I wouldn't have the strength to do it. The ones that feel.

[C]

Because it's overwhelming.

[B]

Yeah. So is there help to come alongside your brothers and sisters in arms that say, okay, I'm here to help. I'll help you do this, because I know it's too much.

[C]

There are several organizations out there. Dennis mentioned a few of them with the David Veterans of Foreign Wars. You also have American Legions out there, but those are just the big names.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

They're smaller, local companies that do something similar. And if you're close to a military base, you'll find them in abundance.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But they really do care, and a lot of them are veterans themselves, and they've been through that same foxhole of having to fight it, and they know how to do it well.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I try to use my. My experience to help veterans in the same way, because I do know how to fight it.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And I know how to win. That's so important.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[C]

Having somebody on your side that says, I've done it.

[B]

I've been there.

[C]

I got the T shirt.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[C]

It's. It is a challenge.

[B]

How are you feeling now, Nate? How is your Ms. Now?

[C]

I have good days and bad days. This is the Ms. Awareness month of March, and this is the. In 2026 from my 2019 diagnosis. I'm doing the Ms. Walk this year.

[B]

Good for you. Good for you, team captain. Nice.

[C]

I'm trying to get everybody to realize that men are diagnosed within us too.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Because we're such a small minority. And I'm. I'm super excited, like, almost a year excited to be able to do this.

[B]

Let me know. I'll post it for you.

[C]

Oh, absolutely. I'll let Adam know. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We're competitive. We like that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Very excited for you. That's. That's really cool. When is yours?

[C]

I believe it is. Not until April. April 8th, I think. I. I don't remember. I'd have to look it up again.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Memory.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I put it in my calendar. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Keep me posted and we'll. We'll do something for it. So that is. I really appreciate you. Do you have any questions? Dennis, remember you were supposed to host this with me?

[A]

No, but I did want to add that there. There are patient advocates at the va.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The ones I've dealt with are. Haven't really been helpful, but I've heard there are some good ones.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And that's part of the problem. Not all the VAs are the same.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But when I. When I was requesting the mile cycle, I was arguing with the. The head of prosthetics. I was telling them, look, this device is being provided to veterans all over the country, and they're right. Through their va. Why? And he's. His exact words were, just because one VA does something doesn't mean they all do. Is.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

The other thing I want to mention there. There's a couple devices I have both that they just gave me, like, okay. I told them, you know, I was dealing with pain. They're like, oh, have you heard of this? And I was like, no, But I don't. I'm not the type. I hate taking medication.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I take probably, you know, five or six different medications. And that's because I, you know, I. I need them, and I have to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

One is called an H wave, and one is called a Replexa Plus. The H wave is kind of like a TENS unit. And there's different. Like, if you're having, like. I have a lot of neuropathy, my hands and feet, so I use it for that. And there's certain, like, electrodes. You put certain areas to help with that. And it was. It's been very helpful.

[B]

And that was just given to you. So you just explained. And they. That was something that they gave.

[A]

Yeah. My doctor one day asked me if I'd ever heard of it. I'm like, no. He's like, I'll send you one. And I didn't. I didn't have to do anything for it. Same with the Plus. Now the Replexa plus is a little different. I'm not sure. What kind of technology it uses, but you don't feel anything. But it's supposed to help with blood flow, pain.

[B]

Okay. And this was your doctor at the va?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very neat. So there is an understanding. There is. There is a desire to give out, to give things. Just some of them, at least some of the VAs.

[A]

Yeah. Most of my experience at the VA has been pot. I'd say 90. There's been a few times, you know, with like the. Trying to get the. The mile cycle. That's the biggest. The biggest thing. But I remember when I was getting my. I'm on Ocrevus six months through the va, and they. My first dose got all screwed up. They. I went. I went to my appointment and they're like, oh, your doctor didn't sign the release or the paperwork or whatever. And I'm like, okay, just walk down the hall and get them to sign it. And she wasn't there that day. And I'm like, okay. And so the nurse comes back, your doctor's not here. And I'm like, well, she has to have a backup. Right. Just.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And the backup doctor for her said, I'm not familiar with him, so I don't. I don't want to sign off on it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You don't need to be familiar with me. You just look at my record and.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But.

[A]

So that was. That was an aggravating thing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But other than that, I've had pretty positive, you know.

[B]

Good. Yeah. Good. Now do you get your. You're on Ocarus as well.

[C]

I'm on Ocrevus and I go to a. I don't go to the VA because they don't have an Ms. Specialist.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

They have neurological specialists, which they tried to get me to see, and I again had to fight and say, no, they're not specifically for Ms.

[B]

Right.

[C]

They deal with neuroscience, but it matches different.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

It has to be somebody that is Ms.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Specific. The VA does have Ms. Centers of Excellence is what it's called.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And the closest one to me, I believe, is actually in St. Louis. Oh, gosh, Missouri. And I'm in Kentucky. So obviously I'm not going to make that five hour drive to go see a specialist, so.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But like Dennis said, you know, not all VAs are the same.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And those centers of excellence are absolutely amazing. And they do know all of these different durable medical devices, which is what they're called in the va.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That they can give us. And they do help document it medically. Help us.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I Use a bioness, which was one of the first devices I got. And then whenever I was on.

[B]

And what is that?

[C]

A bioness is also a TENS unit. It goes on my right. Right below the knee. And it is a tension that activates that, that muscle that lifts my foot up. So I don't have the foot drag.

[B]

Yeah. The foot drop or are you dragging?

[C]

Yes, absolutely. And then with my. Modified by ms, which is the organization that's recognized by the National Ms. Society, I do zooms once a week with the men on with Ms.

[B]

I've, I've talked and I, I've done some speaking with them. So very, very familiar with them. Great.

[C]

Amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I, I reached out to them whenever I was diagnosed and they've given me so much information and there's a lot of men on there that.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Have been through similar things. You know, they may have been diagnosed for 20 years and I barely hitting five or six, so.

[B]

Right.

[C]

They can give me those tips.

[B]

Great support group to be in.

[C]

It is. And they help, they hold you accountable.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which I need. So many times I need, I need another dude to say, stop being a. Yeah. And get off your ass. Go do something.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Get up and move.

[B]

For sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

And Adam is great about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, he'll. He'll call you out and say.

[B]

Yeah. Adam's one of my best friend. So I, I know, I know that he is. So I do the walk in May with him all the time just to do that with him. So I, I've taught and worked with him, love him. And we are both. We're about 20 minutes from each other, maybe close to 30, but yeah, we're really close, so.

[C]

And he just got those two sleeves for his legs.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I was really excited about that. I was doing a podcast with them and I was like, you're going to be there. Go talk. And so it worked. I was just super stoked that he got it. So.

[C]

Yeah, it was amazing.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So really excited for him. So always, always excited for him. So really, that's.

[A]

But I, I got frustrated with it because it was like every time I put it on, it was like a different experience. Sometimes my foot would shoot out the other way and.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Just got aggravated with it.

[C]

Interesting being in Kentucky. The person I saw was based out of Nashville, so it's only like a two hour drive. They actually came up and programmed it to my gate or to the way I walk and then they had to come back and adjust because with everything, your mind is a wonderful thing. And it will. It will learn whether you want it to or not. So it. It learned the device and it helped activate it with my own mind versus the electrodes. So I had to get it adjusted. And you have some. I think it's residual effects. It lasts after you take it off. And I really enjoyed the bioness.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Luckily that's all I need for right now.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But like I was saying, the VA was really good about the durable equipment.

[B]

Good.

[C]

Whenever I was in an extreme relapse and I literally couldn't walk, I couldn't. I couldn't go upstairs or anything like that, they did give me a. Oh, what's it called? I call it my Go Go gadget machine. They gave me a scooter for the long distant walk so I can still do things with my family.

[B]

Good. Good.

[C]

And that's been amazing. It's a Pride victory 10 or something. But I only use it when I have to. But the fact that I have it is amazing.

[B]

Yeah. Good to hear. Good to hear that they fixed that too for. Because as you know, we can. We can create bad brain plasticity or good brain plasticity. And so having it fit more secure will help you to walk in the correct way. So that's. That's good.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Very good.

[C]

Very important to.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Get it adjusted as needed. And yeah, people at Bioness are. Are good about adjusting that. If you do still see a physical therapist or somebody like that, that's usually at the office that I was working at. A.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, that's. That might be a company I'd like to talk to. So for sure. Well, I can't tell you how much I am grateful and probably will want to know more and dig your brains more for things. But I'm so grateful to have you guys on and to just kind of dig your brain about the military and about the VA and just about how you guys have done what you've done and just so grateful for. Not just. Not just for the fact that for your service, obviously. So grateful for that. But understanding the above and beyond. We all have to almost said activate. We all have to fight and to. That word's just not coming. I'm having an Ms. Bloop. Yeah. Advocate for ourselves and we know how difficult that can be over and over again. But there is a totally different level when it comes to the military as well.

[C]

And.

[B]

And so bringing that out and having that knowledge that most people. Most civilians don't, I think is. Is really powerful. And Dennis, get ready for a lot of phone calls about the mile cycle. So you are the point man on that. So I look forward to having more stories. And so this month I really wanted to highlight some of our veterans with that are dealing with multiple sclerosis. So, Nate, it has been such a pleasure to meet you and to know your story and. And it just is. Is just very neat to know that you were able to serve and to really get what you needed and to see how you went through those channels. To really continue to say, no, no, I'm going to. I need it this way. And that you were able to. To get it and to. To fight, to be able to be the husband and to be able to be the dad that you needed to be so very, very proud of your service and proud of your ability to fight for that. So thank you. Thank you.

[C]

And Dennis, it was a pleasure meeting you, seriously. Yeah, thank you very much. You got my number. So we need to talk more.

[B]

Yeah, I have a feeling you guys will talk for. I don't think you guys will not talk anymore. So that's great.

[C]

You're saved in my phone, buddy. Sorry.

[B]

That's great. So thank you guys. And don't forget to tune in. Don't forget to subscribe. And liking and subscribing are different. Please subscribe. That helps us with our podcast and I will see you guys next week for another edition of Move it or Lose It. Don't forget, we do have to move it. That is our best medicine. See you guys soon. Bye. Bye. Have a great day.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the Move it or Lose it podcast. It would mean the world to me if you subscribed and left a review. Remember, you can find me on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, and YouTube. New episodes of the Move it or Lose it podcast air every other Wednesday. If you have any suggestions for future guests or topics, please visit my [e-mail]. until next time,