A Tiny Revolution

Summary

Podcast Summary: Next Comes What – Episode: A Tiny Revolution

Host: Andrea Pitzer
Guest: Fred Grande
Release Date: December 6, 2024

In the thought-provoking episode titled "A Tiny Revolution" of Next Comes What, host Andrea Pitzer delves into the potent role of humor as a tool of resistance against authoritarian figures, with a particular focus on Donald Trump and his allies. Through a blend of historical anecdotes, contemporary examples, and insightful analysis, Pitzer explores how satire and comedy have historically undermined oppressive regimes and examines their efficacy in today's polarized political landscape.

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Humor as Historical Resistance

Andrea Pitzer (A) opens the discussion by highlighting the longstanding tradition of using humor to challenge dictatorships. Referencing Charlie Chaplin’s iconic portrayal of Adenoid Hinkle in The Great Dictator (00:28), Pitzer emphasizes how comedians have historically skewered tyrannical leaders to diminish their fearsome image.

Notable Quote:
"Dictator of the world, your destiny will kill off the Jews, wipe out the brunettes, then will come forth our dream, a pure Aryan race... You make me afraid of myself." (00:28 B)

Pitzer further explores Mel Brooks' strategic use of humor against oppressive leaders. In a 2012 Q&A with Salon, Brooks stated, "If I can make this guy ludicrous, if I can make you laugh at him, then it's a victory of sorts." (05:50 A). This sentiment underscores the power of comedy to humanize and diminish the stature of authoritarian figures.

Modern Applications of Satire and Comedy

Transitioning to contemporary times, Pitzer discusses how modern entertainers have transitioned into political roles, embodying the fusion of humor and governance. Fred Grande (B) provides insights into figures like Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who leveraged their comedic personas to gain political traction.

Notable Quote:
"There is not an empty chair on that stage that didn't tweet out. Never forget the heroes of 9/11... leaders like Zelenskyy, who transitioned from a comic to a wartime president." (08:05 B)

Zelenskyy's rise from a satirical actor to the president of Ukraine serves as a case study in Pitzer's analysis. Her ability to use humor not only galvanized public support but also provided a relatable image in times of crisis.

The Onion and InfoWars: Satirical Takeover

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to examining The Onion’s acquisition of Alex Jones’ InfoWars (25:12 A). This strategic move symbolizes how satire can dismantle platforms that propagate conspiracy theories. Pitzer explains, "If the company manages to defeat a court challenge to their purchase, they can use satire to further mock and deconstruct the conspiracy narrative that hoodwinked so many." (25:29 A).

Online Resistance and 'Laughtivism'

The discussion shifts to the rise of online resistance movements, where hashtags and digital satire play pivotal roles. Pitzer introduces the concept of "laughtivism," where humor is employed as a nonviolent strategy to challenge and delegitimize authoritarian power.

Notable Quote:
"The response to these humorous stunts has been telling... there’s our downer moment. While threats have been made against journalists, immigrants and protesters, the US has not yet crossed into violent reprisals against those who mock the president." (20:56 A)

However, Pitzer warns of the potential dangers of humor becoming defeatist or reinforcing existing prejudices, emphasizing the need for humor to evolve and adapt to effectively foster unity and resistance.

Impact and Limitations of Humor in Political Resistance

Pitzer critically examines the dual-edged nature of humor in activism. While it can unify and reduce fear among marginalized groups, there is a risk of it promoting division or becoming stale through repetitive jokes that fail to inspire broader societal change.

Notable Quote:
"Constantly resorting to gallows humor to joke about a worst possible future... can disempower people who might make a difference." (31:22 A)

She advocates for fresh and challenging humor that transcends stereotypes, ensuring that satire remains a vibrant and effective tool for resistance rather than a means of alienation.

Conclusion: The Future of Humor in Resistance

In concluding the episode, Pitzer underscores the necessity of leveraging humor to bridge divides and foster collective action against authoritarianism. She posits that while humor alone cannot enact change, it serves as a crucial catalyst that complements broader social movements.

Notable Quote:
"If we can't imagine uniting more people than the number who currently agree with us using humor and the recognition of shared experiences, then deep down, we have to wonder how much we really believe in democracy." (35:01 A)

Pitzer calls for a reinvigorated approach to political humor—one that is inclusive, dynamic, and strategically aligned with the goals of social justice and democratic resilience.

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Key Takeaways

• Historical Significance: Comedy has long been a powerful tool against tyranny, effectively humanizing and diminishing the stature of authoritarian leaders.

• Modern Adaptations: Contemporary figures like Zelenskyy demonstrate how entertainers can harness humor for political leadership and resistance.

• Satirical Strategies: The Onion's acquisition of InfoWars exemplifies how satire can dismantle harmful conspiracy narratives.

• Potential Pitfalls: While humor can unify, there is a risk of it becoming defeatist or reinforcing existing prejudices, necessitating continual innovation in satirical approaches.

• Future Directions: Effective political humor should aim to unite broader audiences, fostering shared experiences and collective action to support democratic values.

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This episode of Next Comes What offers a comprehensive exploration of humor's role in political resistance, blending historical context with contemporary examples to provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of satire as a tool for social change.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to Next comes what from Degenerate Art. This is Andrea Pitzer. So writers, singers and everyday people. Skewering dictators or whole regimes is a mainstay of political history. From the Soviet Union to Syria to our lives today, there has not been.

[B]

In a very long time a political figure that is as hated as Trump by a lot of people. So a lot of people have said every type of thing about him. A lot of people have drawn him. Do you know how much you gotta hate somebody to draw them? A lot of people. Drawings take time. Drawing. It's one thing to curse somebody out real quick. It's a totally different thing, too. No, no, wait. I'm getting his ass. I'm getting his ass.

[A]

I'd like your reporter murder moments go way back, before Charlie Chaplin playing Adenoid Hinkle in the Great Dictator.

[B]

The world. Is your feet worn out, afraid no nation would dare to oppose you. Dictator of the world, your destiny will kill off the Jews, wipe out the brunettes, then will come forth our dream, a pure Aryan race. Beautiful Blondarians. They will love you, they will adore you, they will worship you as a God. No, no, you mustn't say it. You make me afraid of myself.

[A]

To Rome's Emperor Claudius being satirized as a pumpkin. 2 millenn.

[B]

I'll tell you one thing, and I'm not ashamed to say it, my estimation of John Sacrimoni as a man just fucking plummeted. Give him a break, will you? It's an emotional day to cry like a woman. It's a fucking disgrace. His fucking coach turned into a pumpkin.

[A]

And today, the online resistance has adopted its hashtag as the inheritors of similarly pugnacious movements that defied authoritarians.

[B]

See all the white knights and they belong who on the blogs, the journalists on Twitter who bark like raging dogs. And when you all get doxxed and cannot carry on, though your band, the resistance, lives on.

[A]

Still online, dunking tends toward simple insults, often involving the color orange.

[B]

Now, I don't know if you've been.

[A]

Following the news and body horror imagery.

[B]

I have no idea what's gonna happen next. And neither do any of you. And neither do your parents. Because there's a horse loose in the.

[A]

Hospital and frequently seems to fall a little bit short.

[B]

They try to find experts on the news. They're like, we're joined now by a man that once saw a bird in the airport. It's like, get out of here with that shit.

[A]

So thinking of the many stories I encountered in my research about the ways that everyday people fought concentration camp regimes.

[B]

Tell me about that.

[A]

I want to talk about how humor as resistance actually works in oppressive states and what might or might not be accomplished in the US today and going forward in the next four years or beyond.

[B]

What surprises me, American people don't know we have comedy in Russia. We have comedians. They're there. They're dead.

[A]

And fair warning, this post considers how comedy operates strategically, and nothing is less funny than surgery on a joke.

[B]

I know you think people are going to be interested in this, but they're not.

[A]

So if you're just, you know, kidding around to blow off steam for fun and you aren't interested in wielding it for any ends beyond that, I am not trying to police your jokes with friends.

[B]

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?

[A]

But the question of whether or not Cool Burns accomplish anything has weighed on me in the face of the daily inanities of the Trump transition that we're already seeing. But as Pete Hagseth and his mom keep up their PR campaign, Trump continues to fill his administration with billionaires, celebrities, and loyalists. I want to go through some of what I found on what actually happens with political humor in the face of adversarial power or tyrants. Real and wannabe.

[B]

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room. What is going on here? I demand an explanation.

[A]

George Orwell linked comedy with social change at the smallest level.

[B]

The moral to be drawn from this dangerous nightmare situation is a simple one. Don't let it happen. It depends on you.

[A]

He said a thing is funny when in some way that is not actually offensive or frightening. It upsets the established order. Every joke is a tiny revolution.

[B]

Of course you have the good taste. Not to mention that I spoke to you, of course. Good night. Yeah, I'm rapidly becoming a big underground success in this town. See, in another 25 years, to be able to shake their hands in broad daylight.

[A]

This destabilization of the status quo is surely why autocrats have no sense of humor and why comedians like Mel Brooks are advocates of humor in defiance of murderous leaders. Citing Chaplin's take on Hitler as his inspiration. In a 2012 Q&A with Salon, Brooks said a little bit more about using humor against brutality. And he said, the only weapon I've really got is comedy, and I never stopped using it. If I can make this guy ludicrous, if I can make you laugh at him, then it's a victory of sorts. You can't get on a soapbox with these orators because they're very good at convincing the masses that they're right. But if you can make them look ridiculous, you can win over the people.

[B]

Crushed. France, 27 days. You know, France, Poland, a half hour. No more Poland, you know, very convincing. Whatever we want, we take. We now in Argentina, all of us.

[A]

So entertainment and politics have always been deeply bound together, but the relationship has become more incestuous since Orwell was alive and Brooks launched his career. Celebrities have moved from commenters to practitioners.

[B]

Where are you likely to see more acting? 10 years on the TV series Love Boat or 8 years in the US Congress? My next guest is more than qualified to answer that question. His resume includes both. Not long ago, he left politics. In July, he will become president of Goodwill Industries International. I'm happy to welcome Fred Grande.

[A]

Fred.

[B]

Fred, how are you? Welcome to the show. Thank you.

[A]

Across my lifetime, Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jesse Ventura and Hulk Hogan all became political figures wielding humor as part of a character that they developed.

[B]

You know, he's a fierce competitor, but you've never seen Donald Trump fight like this. Hey, look at this. Donald Trump. Donald Trump. It's Trump the Thumper. Oh, my God. The hostile takeover of Donald Trump. On this big man.

[A]

Jon Stewart went from skewering politicians to becoming an earnest advocate.

[B]

There is not an empty chair on that stage that didn't tweet out. Never forget the heroes of 9 11. Never forget their bravery. Never forget what they did, what they gave to this country. Well, here they are.

[A]

Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a comic, played a president on television, then became a president.

[B]

In addition to his role on that.

[A]

Satirical TV show, Zelensky made a name for himself in Ukraine as an actor and entertainer.

[B]

He won Dancing with the Stars in.

[A]

2006, and he was the voice of Ukrainian Paddington. Donald Trump the politician won on the basis of an imaginary Persona invented by others.

[B]

It's important to remember that when the Apprentice Premiered back in 2004, Donald Trump was a bankrupt punchline in the New York tabloids. A guy who inherited a real estate empire from daddy and then managed to lose it all. And that is until he was cast in the Apprentice by the producer of Survivor, all around reality TV savant Mark Burnett. According to a fantastic new profile, Burnett, the New Yorker. Whereas others had seen in Trump only a tattered celebrity of the 80s, Burnett had glimpsed a feral charisma.

[A]

Silvio Berlusconi in Italy dominated media as an owner before taking control of Italy itself as prime minister.

[B]

While Trump was born into a family that was already immensely wealthy. Berlusconi was born into a middle class family in Milan. Normal parents, normal education, and a Norma. However, Berlusconi had something special. He was fascinated by show business and was the best salesman you could find. In fact, Berlusconi's beginnings were as a singer. That's right. Berlusconi started his career as a crooner who entertained parties on cruise ships and the like.

[A]

Vladimir Putin stages buffoonish showings of himself shirtless, on horseback or camping. Like some aging film star chasing his last bid at a rocky sequel, a shirtless Putin braved the cold waters of a mountain lake in the Siberian wilderness.

[B]

Didn't you want to see that?

[A]

If everything becomes a show like this, then nothing is real. Entertainment has eaten politics, and humor is just a branch of entertainment. Which is not to say that humor doesn't still have a role in opposing oppression. And overwhelmingly, the authoritarian and the right in general are terrible at using humor as an art. My pronouns are usa.

[B]

My pronouns are usa.

[A]

How about it, huh? My pronouns are kiss my ass.

[B]

My personal preferred pronouns are fried chicken and collard greens, and my pronouns are patriot and ass.

[A]

Kicker is American. My pronouns are I won, please don't shoot.

[B]

I'm a they.

[A]

It might not seem fair, because if you're against Trump, you sit and see Trump and his associates all the time using humor in horrific and derogatory ways that not only don't bring us together, but actively demonize vulnerable groups.

[B]

I don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. Yeah, I think it's called Puerto Rico.

[A]

But power has gotten more proficient at stealing and suffocating its opponent's humorous resistance.

[B]

Keep hating on me on the Internet. My comment section are woke parents and I make rats off compound interest. Y'all live with your parents?

[A]

So, in Serbia during the late 1990s, a pro democracy group called OPTOR, which.

[B]

Means Resistance Otpor, became experts in the area of nonviolent struggle. Their most important weapon was humor.

[A]

For 10 years, I've been trying to.

[B]

Get rid of this stain. I've tried everything. But now there's a new machine with an outstanding cleansing program.

[A]

It gets rid of these and other.

[B]

Stains safely and reliably.

[A]

They put a poster of President Slobodan Milosevic's face on an oil barrel and they left a large stick near it in a shopping district. The fun that shoppers had while waiting in line eventually brought police who arrested the barrel. They couldn't arrest the people standing around. They didn't know who'd put it there. So they took the barrel, and that went viral. A group that started with only 20 members became a movement of 70,000 people, tremendously expanding what they were able to accomplish. And the group embraced this idea that has since come to be called laughtivism.

[B]

The purpose of humor in this sort of street protest action is to show that the regime has no legitimacy. It shows the funniest face of the regime, et cetera, et cetera. But at the same time, it also shows people that you can do something and get away with it, which is.

[A]

Using humor as a part of a larger nonviolent strategy to break the hold of political repression. And this kind of physical action used to humorous ends, can be really effective.

[B]

And their techniques have been widely copied during the Orange Revolution in Ukraine and the Rose Revolution in Georgia.

[A]

In 1983, after a strike in Chile, where miners were surrounded by police and violence was imminent, it was clear that the government wanted to unleash bloodshed. And so the strikers called for a different kind of demonstration in which people, on an assigned day, walked or drove half speed.

[B]

Hey, where do you think you're going? Going home.

[A]

And this was a form of protest by which people could join in solidarity, realize their strength, but have little or no risk of arrest. I love that example.

[B]

Beneath the mountains in the plush outskirts of Santiago, despite the vast national debt, the general is building himself a new bunker. It remains an open question whether he'll ever live in it.

[A]

Another one that it was really powerful. There was a televised version was that two Italian satirists wound up blackballed from state programming, leading Nobel Prize winner Dario Fo to condemn censorship. And in 2003, Fo and his wife, Franca Rame, put together a vicious, hilarious performance that mocked Berlusconi directly. A kind of a puppet show telling a tale where the prime minister, through a horrible accident, ends up with part of Putin's brain when Putin is assassinated by terrorists. Humor allows the powerful to level the playing field. OPTR founder Sergey Popovic said in an interview about what's happening more recently in Syria that fighting Assad is like boxing Mike Tyson. You don't want to box Mike Tyson. Even the Mike Tyson that fought recently.

[B]

Is the old Mike Back. Is vintage Mike Back. Let us know. Are you talking to me right now? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I guess I'm back. Yeah.

[A]

You don't want to box him. You want to challenge him at chess.

[B]

Really funny. Really funny. What do you mean I'm funny? It's funny, you know, it's a good story. It's funny. You're a funny guy. What do you mean? You mean the way I talk? What? It's just, you know, you're just funny. It's, you know, the way you tell the story and everything. Funny how? I mean, what's funny about.

[A]

What does this translate to? For Americans, it's not enough to make Trump ridiculous. He makes himself outlandish daily and thrives on both outrage and attention. It's really about the thrill of the spectacle and defying common decency. For him, Trump grows on hate from the left when it binds his followers closer to him. Even Berlusconi in Italy was eventually tarnished by the stories of those infamous bunga.

[B]

Bunga parties that Berlusconi used to throw.

[A]

And an underage girl. But his political career only ended with his death in 2023.

[B]

Think about it. Berlusconi died on 12 June at the age of 86. He was an old man. Well, last year he appeared on TikTok with this video. Ciao ragazzi e comi jua vidoyo canale. We're not going to go into what he's actually saying in the message of this video, but what I want to emphasize here is that the man you just saw was an 85 year old man when this recording was made, when he was running again in an election in which he had a real chance of winning.

[A]

So Trump has to be wounded in ways that unsettle him and tarnish his impunity and his defiance of the laws in the eyes of his followers, the people who admire him for his willingness to embrace corruption and trash norms.

[B]

I want to explain something. The people that you see leaving because nobody ever leaves. And when they do, I finish up quick, believe me.

[A]

The harms his policies do has to be made apparent in comic ways that might resonate even with the apolitical.

[B]

Can you clarify your comments about injections of disinfectant? No. I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you, just to see what would happen. Now, disinfectant for doing this, maybe on.

[A]

The hands, would work, and it's a difficult task.

[B]

Get away from that phone. I would advise you not to interfere. I was willing to shoot Captain Renault and I'm willing to shoot you. Hello? Put that phone down. Get me the radio tower. Put it down. Major Strutter has been shot. Round up the usual suspects.

[A]

Even when political humor is effective in extreme authoritarian societies, it carries great costs in the forms of reprisal against the artists involved. Dario Faux and Francarame suffered various punishments for their defiance of Italian politicians over the decades. Fo was arrested by police in November 1973 and Rame was kidnapped and raped by fascists earlier that same year.

[B]

Ramey premiered a collection of five monologues entitled Tuta Casa, Leto e Chiesa, it's or It's All Home, Bed and Church in 1977 in Milan. These monologues about the situation of women, in particular about the sexual servitude of women, predates Eve Ensler's the Vagina Monologues by 20 years.

[A]

Sonia Noederer wrote about the use of humor by the resistance to Bashar al Assad in Syria, saying about some of the people that had stood up against him. The daring works of cartoonist Farzat, the powerful songs of Kashush, and the witty slogans of protesters in Kafranbel are only some examples.

[B]

So what these people are saying with their slogans and with their demonstrations in Sweden and all around Syria in regime controlled areas, is that you are not capable anymore, you are not governing, and we want, like the rest of the Syrians, to be rid of you.

[A]

The response to these humorous stunts has been telling Firzat's hands were broken and Kashush vocal cords severed under torture by regime forces, while the Kafranbel cartoonists were assassinated by Islamists. So there's our downer moment. While threats have been made against journalists, immigrants and protesters, as well as implicit threats against trans people, reinforced by the high rates of violence against that community that already exist, the US has not yet crossed into the threshold of violent reprisals or physical revenge against those who mock the president.

[B]

Let's put her with a rifle, standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. Okay? Let's see how she feels about it. You know, when the guns are trained on her face.

[A]

Trump did call for critics of the Supreme Court to be jailed, though he seems more likely to use political pressure to get his opponents blackballed and fired, rather than being able to resort to arrest and torture. New at 11 students in Moreno Valley.

[B]

Standing up for their teacher after a video showing his disappointed reaction to the.

[A]

Outcome of the presidential election went viral.

[B]

That video has now landed the history teacher on administrative leave and under investigation. But there is a movement growing tonight, people fighting to get him back in the classroom.

[A]

Given the lower level of risk compared to those who have paid severe prices for their defiance of strong men and authoritarians, the melodrama of online Anti Trump resistance grifters can invoke eye rolls. Valorizing the bravery of anti Trump stances in the cases where a person is unlikely to be punished for them is embarrassing. Sometimes I read the comments. Sometimes my security folks advise me to not read them. But let me look. I'm not leaving the country. Obviously, I didn't want him to win, but if you guys know my story at all, and if you don't, just Google Kathy Griffin, Donald Trump, you know, I've already tussled with him. I've tussled with him seven years ago and I prevailed. And I, you know, just played Carnegie hall two weeks ago and by the way, literally kissed the stage. There's a big lipstick mark that's still there. Probably at the same time, preserving the basic, well established tradition of openly mocking political leaders is vital.

[B]

But listen, let's review the rules. Here's how it works. The president makes decisions. He's the decider. The press secretary announces those decisions. And you people of the press type those decisions down. Make, announce, type. Just put them through a spell check and go home. Get to know your family again. Make love to your wife. Write that novel you got kicking around in your head. You know, the one about the intrepid Washington reporter with the courage to stand up to the administration.

[A]

You know, fiction, even in the US Humor is not without some risk served up dishonest drivel. In a press Release by Ron DeSantis, Team Axios, Tampa Bay reporter Ben Montgomery responded, this is propaganda, not a press release. Montgomery soon lost his job.

[B]

Being dropped to your knees.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Begged to do this. John and Dennis thought I should be. Omarosa said me. Some other people said you.

[A]

And in the end, we can expect more of this and worse under Trump 2.0. But sometimes the comedians get their revenge, flipping off the president.

[B]

You've all seen that picture. You remember it. Julie Briskman made national headlines with that photo. It was two years ago.

[A]

That was when President Trump's motorcade was.

[B]

Passing by in Virginia as he left his golf club. Briskman was later fired of her job because of that. That is the price she paid. But last night, she got a new job, winning a seat on the County Board of Supervisors in Loudoun County, Virginia.

[A]

Just outside of Washington, D.C. she won again in 2023. Importantly, she didn't run on having flipped off the president, but one of Trump's golf courses is in her district. The Onion similarly struck a blow against Trump ally Alex Jones.

[B]

The Onion, the satirical website and newspaper the Onion, has taken over the website InfoWars of Alex Jones, the very platform that Jones used to spread horrific conspiracy theories, including those really awful false claims about the Sandy Hook shooting being not real.

[A]

It's a great joke all by itself, but it also carries the seeds of social change inside it.

[B]

We're going to take it and take the universe that Alex created and just pave it over. We're gonna create a new world.

[A]

The Onion was ending infowars stream of hate that targeted families victimized by gun violence in a deal that included the backing of those families.

[B]

We're all on social media, we're all on TikTok and Instagram, and there are a million little Alex Joneses out there, each selling their own supplement or making you drink raw milk or something. They're trying to get you afraid of something, and they're trying to sell you the solution. And our new website is going to tackle exactly that.

[A]

If the company manages to defeat a court challenge to their purchase, they can use satire to further mock and deconstruct the conspiracy narrative that hoodwinked so many and made Jones rich. Just as sports can be a refracted, less harmful version of war, humor creates a battlefield that is, for now, in the US Typically, bloodless. Humor that is legible to a broad part of the population can create a rift between an authoritarian leader and his followers.

[B]

I love my dead gay son.

[A]

A comic response to authoritarianism can likewise reduce anxiety or dread among vulnerable groups, at least momentarily, by cutting the target down to size or making the autocrat seem mundane. Doing so, it denies him what he wants most, which is to be feared.

[B]

Now, if I don't get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole. That's going to be the least of it. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country. That'll be the least of it.

[A]

And the promise to a lot of people who would like to just ride things out is that they won't face any harm or repercussions if they just let Trump and his allies do what they want. Humor can keep the fundamental ridiculousness of repressive society front and center to those people who might be inclined to disengage. We're heading into a place where you need a refilled tank to deal with anything you're dealing with, whether it's grief, loss, or the happy parts as well. And sociologist Makjen Yul Sorenson wrote that when nonviolent resisters use humor, not only is it hard to justify violence, but almost all kinds of reactions, violent or not make the oppressor look ridiculous. I'm using a lot of international examples here, but the US has its own long and vibrant history of humor in nonviolent civil rights and workers rights campaigns. Think of Frederick Douglass decades before the abolition of slavery, delivering rousing mimicry in his talk on the Southern style of preaching to slaves. See how mercifully he has adapted you to the duties you are to fulfill, while to your masters who have slender frames and long, delicate fingers, he has given brilliant intellects that they may do the thinking while you do the working. Civil rights activist Bruce Hartford wrote about nonviolence and humor while trying to force bank of America to abandon discriminatory hiring policies. The protesters had learned that pre printed checks were just a formality and that they could write the same information on anything and use it as a check. So they opened checking accounts with tiny balances and they drew improvised checks on their picket signs denouncing bank of America for racism. Anne Hartford wrote that when we entered with our signs on their long sticks, the managers rushed up and said, you can't picket in here. This is private property. Oh, we're not picketing. We responded with good cheer. We're here to cash a check. See, it's written out right there. Many were shocked, but even a few of the managers had to laugh. In the wake of the November election, a common phrase appeared on social media, said by people on the right and the left. Harrisbackers and Trump supporters alike enjoy the camps. The right might have been crowing about victory and kidding on the square, while, you know, really meaning it. Imagining leftist enemies that would be locked up by Trump. The left was more likely to direct the comment at people who didn't show up to vote because they felt Harris had not done enough to gain their support. They didn't support Gaza policies or they couldn't be bothered.

[B]

Stop the nonsense about two state solution. Never going to happen, never should happen.

[A]

My sense is that this is a bleak kind of humor with no useful function in terms of resisting authoritarian trends. In some cases, it's a method of coping with fear and disappointment, but ultimately it just promotes division and isolation.

[B]

So you still think, despite the disappointments, fair to say that you think that there are disappointments in the selections. Right. Of Huckabee and some of these others. But you're still sticking by the decision you made? Absolutely.

[A]

Another real danger is defeatism. It's one thing for gallows humor to be common among those whose friends and associates were actually being executed. It's another to keep saying we're all going to die.

[B]

Shut up, you Jewish turd. Oh, you call it Jewish? I'm not Jewish. I'm a Samaritan. A Samaritan? This is supposed to be a Jewish section. It doesn't matter. You're all going to die in a day or two. It may not matter to you, Roman, but it certainly matters to us, doesn't it, darling?

[A]

Oh, rather.

[B]

Under the terms of the Roman occupancy, we're entitled to be crucified in a purely Jewish area. Pharisees separate from Sadducees and Swedish separate from Welsh. All right, all right, all right, we'll soon settle this. Ends up all those who don't want to be crucified here.

[A]

Constantly resorting to gallows humor to joke about a worst possible future that could still be prevented by taking action right now is a way to disempower people who might make a difference. It's impossible to resist savage humor when Trump himself stares directly into the sun during an eclipse and creates a circle of courtier like a circus ensemble. Dr. Oz, whose peers have called him a grifter, imagining him in charge of the nation's most vulnerable patients, or RFK Jr. Prepared to deny children vaccines as Secretary of Health and Human Services. And humor invites people to engage, but it can also exclude through the use of stereotypes and prejudice. The recent example of Elonia, a femme version of Elon Musk as first lady, is an example of another kind of humor that aims to be subversive but often just winds up reinforcing the same misogyny that Musk himself has adopted. So humor that's not new or challenging, that spirals on the same topics that have been endlessly revisited and travels the same circle of listeners can become demotivating even if the topic is old. It's important to bring new energy to the mockery if you want to make a difference.

[B]

This dude who has held the highest office has been called a traitor. He's been called a Russian asset. He's been called all bad or things. But this was the thing. And it's because deep down at his core, even his supporters will admit that deep down at the base of who he is, Trump is an entertainer. And all I'm saying is, as a fellow entertainer, if someone had said, josh, people leave your shows early out of boredom and confusion, I'd be like, oh, okay, we fighting? Say less.

[A]

As Rudolf Herzog, son of that other Herzog, wrote in his book Dead Funny, comedy in a democracy also risks being mistaken for real resistance. It's worth remembering that comedy can't change anything in and of itself.

[B]

In other words, you can yell fire in a crowd at theater if you're on stage, but don't do it off stage. The theater is make believe. That's where it's at.

[A]

And so what follows is what's important a shift in the views of the larger society, a commitment to change. We're taking advantage of the windows opened by a broader awareness of an issue and the connections it makes, which first come from comedy. And I am 100% as irony poisoned as the next Trump hater. But if we can't imagine uniting more people than the number who currently agree with us using humor and the recognition of shared experiences, then deep down.

[B]

I.

[A]

Have to wonder how much we really believe in democracy. And if we make the same jokes over and over to the same crowd and that's all we're doing, but we think we're accomplishing something, then most of the time I'm guessing we're probably not all right. Is that too doubter of a note to end on? Thanks for listening to Next Comes what? Please share this with anyone who's looking for ways to help each other survive this mess. To support this podcast, please subscribe at andreapitzer. Com and consider giving Next Comes what? A five star review where you get your podcasts.