Podcast Summary: Next Comes What – "Where the Real Power Lies"

Release Date: May 8, 2025 Host: Andrea Pitzer

In the episode titled "Where the Real Power Lies," Andrea Pitzer delves deep into the intricate web of authoritarianism, exploring how charismatic leaders and technological advancements interplay to reshape societal structures. Pitzer examines contemporary figures and movements, drawing parallels between global strongmen and the political strategies employed by figures like Donald Trump. This episode serves as a comprehensive analysis of power dynamics in the modern world, emphasizing the critical role of human agency in countering authoritarian tendencies.

1. Introduction to Authoritarianism and Modern Figures

Andrea Pitzer opens the discussion by introducing Brian Johnson, a tech entrepreneur renowned for selling Venmo for $800 million. Johnson's obsessive pursuit of immortality through regimented routines, medical interventions, and his ambition to establish a new religion centered around the body serves as a focal point for the episode.

• Andrea Pitzer [00:48]: "Even as I was getting ready for this episode, I saw an article in Technology Review about Brian Johnson."

Brian Johnson's Vision: Johnson articulates his desire to create a decentralized religion that venerates the human body. His approach intertwines technology with personal health, promoting a lifestyle where AI dictates dietary and exercise regimes to optimize longevity.

• Brian Johnson [01:37]: "Don't die is a religion. It's politics, it's economics, it's social, it's morals. All things."

Pitzer contrasts Johnson's ideology with traditional religious frameworks, questioning the implications of elevating the body—and by extension, AI—to a position of ultimate authority.

2. The Manipulation of Power: Bukele and Trump’s Playbooks

The episode transitions to a critical examination of Nayib Bukele, the President of El Salvador, and his authoritarian methods in combating crime. Pitzer references her previous work on concentration camps, drawing parallels to Bukele's mass detentions without due process.

• Andrea Pitzer [04:13]: "I discussed how Bukele… has… positioned himself as a dictatorial savior of the country."

Bukele's strategy involves negotiating with gang leaders like MS-13 to reduce homicide rates, a move that has garnered both domestic praise and international condemnation. Pitzer highlights investigative reports revealing Bukele's collusion with these gangs, undermining his anti-crime narrative.

• Unknown Speaker [05:48]: "Does President Bukele want … to prevent details of the secret negotiations from ever becoming public, especially in a US Courtroom?"

Pitzer draws a parallel to Donald Trump’s approach in the United States, where authoritarian tactics are employed to undermine governmental structures and promote personal agendas. She critiques Trump's efforts to dismantle federal programs, emphasizing the superficial promises of empowerment without addressing systemic issues.

• Andrea Pitzer [08:32]: "So today I'll talk about how, even when things seem to happen magically, there's actually a ton of work going on behind the curtain."

3. The Illusion of Technological Omnipotence

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the misconception that technology—and by extension, AI—can autonomously drive societal progress. Pitzer argues that technological advancements are merely tools dependent on human intervention and creativity.

• Andrea Pitzer [03:03]: "So today I'll talk about who invents the world."

She underscores that the "magic" of technology is human-made, relying on infrastructures like undersea cables, satellites, and human labor for maintenance and innovation. This perspective challenges the notion that technological entities possess inherent power or consciousness.

• Andrea Pitzer [13:31]: "It happened because of humans and could contain no more than humans put into it."

Brian Johnson on AI: Johnson expresses his belief in AI's potential to enhance human capabilities, suggesting a future where AI governs personal health decisions to optimize well-being.

• Brian Johnson [19:03]: "Don't kill the planet and align AI with don't die. There is no other answer in existence on what we do as a species."

Pitzer counters this by emphasizing the indispensable role of human judgment and creativity, arguing that AI lacks the consciousness necessary for genuine innovation and ethical decision-making.

• Andrea Pitzer [16:55]: "The tool itself is not sufficient. There are no hero rulers. There are no hero technologies to whom we must submit."

4. The Human Cost of Technological Advancement

Pitzer highlights the often-overlooked human toll behind technological progress, particularly in developing countries and marginalized communities. She brings attention to the labor-intensive processes that sustain technological infrastructures, such as data workers training AI systems and the societal impacts of automation.

• Brian Johnson [14:46]: "Far from the world's glitzy tech hubs, these data workers train AI systems by sifting through massive amounts of harmful data."

This segment serves as a critique of the dehumanization inherent in some technological pursuits, stressing that without recognizing and addressing the human elements, technological tools remain impersonal and potentially oppressive.

5. The Erosion of Independent Thought and Community

A recurring theme throughout the episode is the erosion of individual autonomy and community bonds in the face of authoritarian leadership and technological mediation. Pitzer warns against the dangers of allowing external forces—be it leaders like Bukele and Trump or AI systems—to dictate personal and societal norms.

• Andrea Pitzer [19:58]: "Humans subordinating their will to AI is as foolish as submitting to a dictator."

She advocates for personal agency and community-driven initiatives as antidotes to the centralization of power. By fostering independent thought and creativity, individuals can resist the allure of authoritarian promises and technological determinism.

6. Concluding Insights: The Imperative of Human Agency

In her concluding remarks, Pitzer reinforces the central thesis that real power resides within human agency and collective action. She urges listeners to embrace their creativity, engage actively in their communities, and resist the passive acceptance of authoritarian or technological dictates.

• Andrea Pitzer [24:30]: "Humans are the force that create changes in humanity."

She calls for a resurgence of individual and collective empowerment, emphasizing that technology should serve as an aid rather than a replacement for human ingenuity and moral judgment.

Notable Quotes

• Brian Johnson [19:03]: "Don't kill the planet and align AI with don't die. There is no other answer in existence on what we do as a species."

• Andrea Pitzer [19:58]: "Humans subordinating their will to AI is as foolish as submitting to a dictator."

• Andrea Pitzer [22:50]: "Without the federal workforce, there is no government. Without actual artists, there can be no new ideas in art."

Key Takeaways

• Human-Centric Technology: Technology, including AI, should be viewed as tools that augment human capabilities, not as autonomous entities with inherent power.

• Authoritarian Tactics in Modern Leadership: Leaders like Bukele and Trump employ strategies that consolidate power by undermining institutions and manipulating societal narratives.

• The Importance of Independent Thought: Maintaining personal and collective agency is crucial in resisting authoritarianism and ensuring that technological advancements benefit society ethically and equitably.

• Community and Creativity as Pillars of Resistance: Active engagement in community initiatives and fostering creativity are essential in countering the dehumanizing tendencies of both authoritarian regimes and unbridled technological progress.

Final Thoughts

"Where the Real Power Lies" serves as a compelling exploration of the intersections between authoritarianism, technology, and human agency. Andrea Pitzer effectively dismantles the myths of technological omnipotence and authoritarian invincibility, advocating for a society where power is decentralized and rooted in the collective will and creativity of its people. This episode is a crucial listen for anyone interested in understanding the modern dynamics of power and the enduring importance of human resilience and ingenuity.