← Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari
Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari
Awakening in a Chaotic World with Loch Kelly
01:10:24
What if the reason you feel stuck… isn’t because you’re broken—but because you’ve been looking in the wrong place? Loch Kelly challenges one of the most common assumptions in spirituality: that awakening requires years of struggle, discipline, or...
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- [00:00]
Howie Mandel
The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my how we do It Gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow $267 million gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my Howie do It gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow $267 million gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right now@globalgamingleague.com that's global gaming in partnership
- [01:29]
Ryan Seacrest
with Level Up Expo.
- [01:31]
Alex Ferrari
Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness, and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host, Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists and truth seekers to illuminate the path towards awakening. Here, we ask questions that truly matter. Why are we here? Where are we going? And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose and our consciousness to the next level? This is a space for transformation, a space for expansion. A space to remember who you really are. So take a deep breath, open your mind, and prepare to step into your next Level Soul. Now, if you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the next level, explore Next Level Soul tv, our streaming platform filled with exclusive movies, docs, original shows, transformative series, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks and deep Spiritual teachings you won't find anywhere else. New content drops every week, helping you expand your consciousness and live from your highest potential. Start your journey today at Next LevelSoul TV. The views, opinions and statements expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the beliefs or positions of of Next Level Soul, its host, or any of the companies they represent. Now let's dive into today's episode. I'd like to welcome to the show Lock Kelly. How you doing, Locke?
- [03:04]
Locke Kelly
Good. Nice to see you. Nice to meet you, Alex.
- [03:06]
Alex Ferrari
A pleasure to meet you as well, my friend. Your work in mindfulness, consciousness, the deep end of the pool, as they say, is pretty profound. You've been doing this for a few years, and I'm very happy you're here. So I'm going to ask you my very first question is that most people come to spirituality because something hurts. As I always like to joke, no one looks for Jesus when they're in the Amalfi coast on a yacht, eating lobster and drinking champagne. They generally aren't looking for Jesus at that point or consciousness or anything else. So what was the pain or question that actually pushed you onto this path?
- [03:46]
Locke Kelly
I mean, I would say that the majority as, as you say, I agree, come what I call because of the fire, but some come because of the light. In other words, some people have had peak experiences, and I. I had both. So some people are just, you know, struggling along in their routine, and then all of a sudden the. The nature of their reality shifts. And what is here is this kind of profound connection, feeling of bliss, a sense of meaning. And so I've had. I had both. I could, you know, as I go back, I can see that there were times as a kid that things broke through when I was like, what is this? Does any. Any adults know what this is? And at one point, I can remember being on a school bus and thinking to myself, having had a. Just experience looking out of the window and feeling kind of the spacious sky and feeling it's very open. And I said, adults must. This is what adults must talk about. And then I realized they don't talk about it at all. You know, so. So I. I did have. I'll go to my more fire experience, which is, you know, one of them, which is that my father developed cancer when I was in high school. So he had brain cancer, left side of his brain. I went off to college. I. I would come back and he had been. He was reduced to being back to a kindergarten level. And then he worked his way up. So by the End of the year, he was ready to go back to work, but he would like, show me his workbooks and like, oh, look how I'm doing, you know, so we'd switch. I just became a man and, you know, an adult. And now all of a sudden, here he is. And it was his left brain. He was a engineer and a math guy, so it, it made him more loving. So that was one of the things that, you know, why I combine, you know, meditation, consciousness, neuroscience and psychology. Because I saw that, that he was very left brain, very mathematical. And he. Then all of a sudden my girlfriend came to the door and he was, Angela, like, so great to see you. And I was like, wow. Okay, so some. Something with the brain, something shifted. So then he, he, he ended up having an aneurysm at the end of that year and then passed on. So I went off to school in sophomore year and, you know, very heavy hearted and kind of left my family and would communicate with them. But none of my friends really had been through this because they were all college kids. So they'd be like, all right, let's go have a beer. And you know, sorry to hear about it. And I tried to talk to the Freudian psychologist. He just took notes and I was like, okay, that's enough of that. Then I walked out. One kind of early winter evening, I walked out of the library and just kind of felt or heard kind of a voice within me say, I don't know if you can take this much longer. And I kind of looked up as if, you know, the voice was coming from the top of my head speaking. But as I looked up, I opened my awareness to the sky. I saw the stars and something lifted and opened. And this feeling of being kind of contracted and small and heavy and worried just opened up and lifted. And I felt unburdened and connected to something greater. And I just started laughing and crying and just felt like, oh my God. And that just felt like. I looked at the stars and the trees and the snow and the. Everything just seems so vivid and clear and hopeful and, you know, just. Just, you know, full of life that I had been kind of shut off from. So I just, you know, tried to talk to people about that and everyone say, oh, that's cool, man. You know, but that showed me. And it ended up being one of the ways that I actually found that was similar to when I ended up going to Sri Lanka, India, Nepal. This kind of direct practice, which is literally feeling like you're contracted awareness is identified. And I open up the Awareness,
- [08:36]
Alex Ferrari
as
- [08:36]
Locke Kelly
if we're in this dark cloud of our minds and our body and our emotion and then just opening, oh, how about the sky? Oh, and then the sky is also within your body and there's this sense of big open mind, open heart that is a real experience of, of consciousness at a. At a greater level.
- [09:01]
Alex Ferrari
That's beautiful. So awakening in general seems to be the next natural stage of human development. Yeah, you know, you go through this, you get caught in the, in the, like you said, the routine of life. And you kind of are this kind of focus, focus, focus. But when you open up, you knew. Awake a bit, you start to see things. I always like to, you know, say it's like you're starting to see the code in the Matrix. You're starting to see things a little bit differently than everybody else. Why do you think this isn't taught in schools or even in therapy that this is a natural next stage of human evolution?
- [09:39]
Locke Kelly
That is such a great question. It literally is. Is, you know, the fascinating thing, because 1. I think 1 of the reasons if you look at it developmentally, is that, you know, as kids were, you know, in human beings are. Our babies are very dependent on family and, and, you know, whereas if turtles kind of are born and go right into the ocean, you know, so they're, they're immediately able to be independent, but we have to be dependent. And then we learn independence. And the way we learn independence by school, by thought, by discriminating, by ego function, that's a, you know, don't cross. That's a red light, that's a green light. You know, remember these rules do this. So we develop this very strong identity that is an ego function that becomes an ego identity. And it creates the sense as we came to believe. I think, therefore I am so thinking education and survival and then success, you know, with doing things well. Achievement is. Is about mental identity. And that waking up is. Is a subtler dimension of consciousness that, you know, was. By spirituality and religion was taken and then almost made into more of a ritual and kind of a, you know, what you had to go to certain people to get, you know, get blessings or it's in a church or God's up above or. So there wasn't this, this development in the mass culture that the kingdom of heaven is within you or that. That what you're searching for is already here or look how to look within. Even if people said look within, they look within their minds or they look within their personality.
- [11:42]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word
- [11:44]
Howie Mandel
from Our sponsor, the Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up. March Madness is here and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my how we do it gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow 267's million dollars GAM in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.
- [13:18]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show.
- [13:22]
Locke Kelly
And, and this subtle dimension of consciousness is, is not an object and it's not a thought, but it's just as palpable. And that's, that's what you wake up to. It's. It's similar to that experience of this, of opening to the sky, this awake space that is the intelligence prior to thought, that from which we can use thought, we can move our hands. But it's so subtle that there was no institution that really took hold to make it kind of a secular way of teaching. It became kind of taught and then there became like these Olympic athletes of meditation, like yogis and join the monastery if you're going to get it. Whereas there is this tradition which is, you know, one I looked for and found, where everyday people would, you know, could just in the midst of their life, recognize their Whatever you want to call it. True nature, being, presence, authentic self. True, true nature. You know, just by small glimpses during the middle of the day, doing these short little movements of awareness and consciousness.
- [14:49]
Alex Ferrari
Well, let me ask you, with that said, if. If someone is listening right now who thinks they're too busy, too broken, too skeptical for spirituality, what would you say to them?
- [15:00]
Locke Kelly
Directly look within your own experience and find the times that you have been felt most free, happy, connected, a sense of unconditional love. And what. Where were you? What was happening? And then, isn't that what we all want? And what if there's a way, you know, to not have to. If. If religion is a. Is your doorway, that's fine. But what if it was a natural human dimension of consciousness and you could access it just the way you could learn, you know, to do other activities that seem difficult, like, you know, maybe something as simple as typing. You don't know how to type. You don't know where the keys are. You know, you have to learn where the keys are. And now if. If I, you know, people type, they just type with, you know, from a kind of flow consciousness, they just can type. So. So there's a learning of. Of an activity or a type of consciousness that isn't mental. It isn't of your will. It isn't actually using a type of awareness called attention, which it can start with in meditation. But that's not. That actually becomes an obstacle. It isn't trying hard or reading a lot of spiritual books or even, you know, effortfully hoping that grace will arrive if you pray hard enough for. But it's almost this. This tradition is that grace is already here, that. That what you're looking for is our natural. It's already given. Whatever this consciousness is, it's just covered over. So if there could be a way, if you could uncover this natural dimension of who you are and its natural condition would be like you were as a joyful child, except now with, you know, a lot of learning and mental capabilities to function, then that's kind of what it would be like.
- [17:25]
Alex Ferrari
So, Locke, let me ask you, though. You're saying the kind of. You're insinuating that there's stuff on us that we have to kind of coats, if you will, let's say five big, heavy coats that we're walking around with. And as we move through life, we put on more coats and more coats and more coats. Those. But those are ones that who are enlightened or found enlightenment or just awakened seem to have less coats. Now, many of those coats are coats that we pick up along the way from parents, from classmates, from communities, from countries, from religion specifically that it's kind of makes us heavier and we can't be that free flowing child that we once were. So how can we break through a lot of that or at least confront the programming that we received? Because everyone, every soul on the planet gets programming. The moment they come out of the womb. They're starting to, they're starting to learn. Whether they're being taught or just observing. They just pick it up. It's, it's. I don't know if you have children. I do. And watching them and seeing the traits they picked up, some good, some like, man, you, you picked that up for me after every, I mean, God, Jesus, you know, you know, and I'm like, I didn't even say anything.
- [18:42]
Locke Kelly
I'm like.
- [18:42]
Alex Ferrari
But now they, they just pick those kind of traits up. They also pick up the good ones too, which is, which is won. But they pick up all of you, which is, which is problematic sometimes.
- [18:54]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [18:56]
Alex Ferrari
So how can we, how can we really face. Because if they're watching this episode right now.
- [19:03]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [19:03]
Alex Ferrari
That means that they have a question with inside. They're searching for something, they're curious about something. How can they break free from the programming? You were like, well, I was raised like this and according to my priest or my rabbi or my whatever, I can't do this, this and this. I, I've had so many comments that people say, oh, I'm, I know I'm gonna, I know I'm gonna get in trouble for watching the show, but I just can't turn it off. I've, I've heard that constantly, like my priest is not gonna, not gonna be happy by me watching this show because I'm talking about like, you know, you know, Jesus meditating in India.
- [19:36]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [19:37]
Alex Ferrari
Which as a former Catholic, recovering Catholic, as I joke it is, is a. No, no, you don't know, you don't talk about these kinds of things. So there's a lot of like guilt and that we deal with. So how do you deal with that?
- [19:50]
Locke Kelly
Some people are religious, some people are spiritual, not religious. Some people are consciousness and not necessarily using spiritual language. But I have, you know, I did a master in divinity. I did, I did the three year degree, which is a degree that's done by ministers and some of my good friends are, you know, interfaith groups. I'm involved with Father Thomas Keating, who was very good friend of mine who was a priest who started centering prayer and you know, we just have the same language. We just like immediately drop into talking about the same thing. So this is a place that everyone can meet. It shouldn't be a threat to anything. Everyone can keep their, their religious beliefs and their metaphysical and their, you know, theological beliefs. This is like, well, where does that all meet the human being? So the human, the human consciousness. And we're talking about human development that as we grow up we develop ways to protect ourselves and functional parts of ourselves. And we're. People have big, big T trauma or, or everyone has small T trauma which is basically hurts and protections and feeling that you need to repress something and you feel like you're angry but you can't say it, or you feel like you're, you know, somebody makes you feel small or worthless and then you feel like a part of you feels, oh, I'm worthless, you know, and you repress that. You try to be, oh, I'm worth something and you try to kind of counteract it with another part of yourself. So this psychological dimension is not to be ignored. It's to be unburdened from its. What it's holding as these burdened beliefs about who you are. Because the function. So we're not getting rid of for instance, the ego. We're growing up from it and we're thanking it for all its hard work. And we're asking if it wants to semi retire and stop with, with higher, higher pay and more and just be part of the team because there's something that's more wise and more compassionate a dimension which is what we're talking about is this true nature, authentic self that actually is a functional dimension of who we are, identity in mind that can be with our humanity, which is always going to be imperfect, but there's certain like feelings when you kind of get taken over what's called blended or identified with a part of you. I'm worthless, I'm no good. Or I'm gonna show that person what really is, you know, and then you realize, oh, okay, that's a part of me. Who's that appearing to. And this is the move, the mindful move is recognizing what's happening, not denying it, not repressing it, not fighting it, but stepping into something greater that is you that can be aware of it and has compassion for it.
- [23:08]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [23:10]
Howie Mandel
The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and My how we do it gaming team take on Gilly the king and wallow. 2, 6, $7 million gaming in an epic gaming league video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. The global Gaming league is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We do it gaming team take on Gilly the King Wallow 267's mill million dollars gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.
- [24:44]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show. You mentioned something that there's consciousness and spirituality. Yeah, I, I personally can't, can't separate those two. I think if you're conscious, there's a level of spirituality in it. If you're becoming spiritual, there's a level of consciousness to it.
- [25:03]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [25:03]
Alex Ferrari
In your eyes, how are. Are there people who are quote unquote conscious that just completely ignore spirituality and are people who are spiritual who completely ignore consciousness?
- [25:17]
Locke Kelly
Consciousness goes throughout all of it, you know, and is somewhat recognized by religious or spiritual or. What I'm talking about is secularly conscious people. So conscious people who are, let's say recovering from recovering Catholic or let's say recovering from being in a cult or some other kind of thing.
- [25:38]
Alex Ferrari
Sure.
- [25:38]
Locke Kelly
So they're reject. There's like, I'm not going to use religious language. I'm agnostic, meaning I. Or they're just like, I don't know. I, I can't, I'm not sure. But I know what I do know is my own experience. And that when I'm, when I'm closed down and, and feeling identified with a part that feels separate, then I know I can shift to feel more connected. And when I feel connected, I feel everyone you know is deserving of respect. And so the golden rule shows up. You know, I treat everyone you know as if they're the same as me. Love your neighbor as yourself. Of course that's conscious. That's. That's the experience that doesn't need the metaphysical belief to say, what is this? That is invisible and unnamable, but real. So even the word spirit is like, well, I don't. Some people say, I don't know. And even, you know, Buddhism in some ways, did that move to say, well, we're not going to say that. There's, you know, something else. We're just gonna, we're gonna, as you asked, we're gonna see what gets in the way. We're going to meditate. First thing we're going to see is like, all right, what are these five obstacles? There's doubt, there's, there's, you know, grasping, wanting, desiring, everything, rejecting everything. There's, you know, these are the, the movements of consciousness that keep us pushing and pulling. What if you just recognize, okay, that's just happening, and that's not me that's coming and going. So then where, where am I? Where's the location of what everything's arising
- [27:27]
Alex Ferrari
to as you're walking this path? There's two of you right now and two of me. One is the conscious, mindful, spiritual person. And then there's the, the lock, let's say that is living in the third dimensional world. Living in this experience. Now, those two individuals have to coexist and have to balance.
- [27:54]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [27:55]
Alex Ferrari
Because if you go too far down one or the other, you go too far into the material world, you'll get lost. If you go too far down the spiritual consciousness, mindfulness, you start to pull away from this world. Like meditating in a cave for eight hours a day for 40 years. You are in another existence, another reality. When you do things like that in a monastery, you live in this perfect little world where everything's about consciousness, mindfulness, exploration of spirituality, but you're not really interacting with the world. Yeah. So there's a lot. There's a movement now that I've seen that even in the Indian and the Eastern philosophies are saying, we need to have these gurus come down from the mountains and these seekers come down from the mountains and start to become CEOs and go into the world so we can change the world in a different way. So how can you balance something that's ethereal, like spirituality, consciousness, mindfulness, and the practical world of just trying to do what we need to do? So in other words, obviously, you have a mission in life. You're trying to spread this information out to as many people as possible. There's a spiritual component to that, but there is also an egoic component to that, which is not a bad or negative thing. It's just an egoic thing, like, I need to go do this, I need to spread this. But there's that balance. So how can, how can you balance those two as opposed to, like, if you're in the spiritual space going, everything's going to happen, everything will unravel the way it's supposed to. And there's, there's truth to that to some degree.
- [29:37]
Locke Kelly
Yeah, that's true.
- [29:38]
Alex Ferrari
Absolutely. But then, but if you don't get up off the couch.
- [29:42]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [29:42]
Alex Ferrari
And go hustle a little bit and go, you know, if I wouldn't have built the studio that you're sitting in here, I wouldn't be able to create the kind of content that I create for my audience. That takes a level of ego.
- [29:54]
Locke Kelly
Yeah, that's right.
- [29:55]
Alex Ferrari
You off the couch to do that. So what, what do you think, sir?
- [29:59]
Locke Kelly
Yeah, so, so this, this is the same question that I had even as I went off to explore as a, you know, graduate student into Sri Lanka and sat in a five day retreat, 10 day retreat, 21 day retreat, went to the studied and then up through India and then ended up in Nepal with this Tibetan teacher who in a matter of minutes shifted my consciousness just by having me do a simple glimpse exercise. And then I thought, oh, okay, well, should I just stay here and do this or should I join, you know, become more of this, Join this club of Tibetans or. Because that's where. And then I was like, no, I'm going back to New York City, finish my degree. And actually I feel like, you know, they need to have soup kitchens and shelters built. So I'll go help with that. Because I felt like, oh, these are people, everyone's me, you know, so immediately the key is that it's what's called the word non. Dual in its, in its fundamental sense means two truths. There's this absolute reality which is spiritual, and there's this relative reality. And they're not two. So bringing them together is actually the most spiritual and the most, you know, human thing, the humanness and the beingness are human being. Then you bring beingness and humanness together. This. How do you do that? And in some ways I came back and was, you know, did my work in New York City, trying to in the middle. So I would, you know, I became a psychotherapist for a while and teaching meditation. So I'd sit in this clinic in Brooklyn and you know, see psychiatric patients and sometimes they wouldn't show up. So I would just look out the window and do my practice and then the next one would come in and do that. Then I look out the window, do my practice and the next one would come in. So all of a sudden now I'm like, wait a minute, why do I have to look out the window? Why don't I just do it while I'm here with the person and what's the same in them that's with me. And all of a sudden it just becomes a continuous flow. And so what I call awake in the world, I call it awake loving flow. So it's like people who are in flow consciousness or in the zone in a sport or music or walking in nature. You, you enter this embodied, connected, non mental, highly functioning way of doing things. And that's the ultimate goal of, of this.
- [32:51]
Alex Ferrari
That makes sense because you, you know, as I've done my research and my studies and you start getting. Having spiritual experiences as I'm sure you had, and you start seeing behind the curtain a bit. It's. It's almost enticing and intoxicating to go there and stay there.
- [33:08]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [33:09]
Alex Ferrari
I mean when you have a deep meditation where you are walking around in full bliss.
- [33:13]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [33:15]
Alex Ferrari
It's real difficult to go and do your taxes. Like, it's just like what, what am I doing? This is where I need to be.
- [33:22]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [33:23]
Alex Ferrari
But it is this balance that. And I think it's a really important message to put out there because so many spiritual seekers just want to sit and meditate all day and that's fine.
- [33:33]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [33:33]
Alex Ferrari
But at a certain point you've got to balance it with the real world and bring that into. That's what we all need to awaken this planet.
- [33:43]
Locke Kelly
That's right.
- [33:44]
Alex Ferrari
Because if we're all stuck in caves, nothing's going to go.
- [33:47]
Locke Kelly
Yeah. And it's not too, it ultimately is not two things. And that this. So this kind of practice that I do, which is called effortless mindfulness or from the Mahamudra tradition, so they have this sense that you wake up from your small mind to this awareness based knowing and then there the next phase is waking in. So it's called same taste. So the spiritual dimension or the awareness is the same taste as the human and the stuff that's coming and going and just very, very ordinary, mundane. They're not two things. There's washing dishes and you know, meditating is it becomes this flow consciousness and, and it's more fun. Then you're kind of blissfully, I mean, you know, blissfully doing most things. I don't know. I haven't yet achieved the state of blissfully doing my taxes. But that's but many that that may. There may be somebody out there who's achieved that level but but a lot of other things that are daily.
- [35:07]
Alex Ferrari
But you know what? The funny thing is that for accountants, that is the bliss.
- [35:11]
Locke Kelly
Right? That's right.
- [35:14]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [35:17]
Howie Mandel
The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about. Get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place.
- [35:42]
Alex Ferrari
Place.
- [35:43]
Howie Mandel
Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.
- [35:46]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker and Culture Pop. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.
- [36:18]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic Mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [36:52]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show. So it really is a balance of like, we need everybody on board to do the things that they do and to find their bliss. One thing I always find fascinating as a meditator is that. And I'm, I'm not perfect. I'm sure you aren't either in regards to meditation where you meditate and you, you can meditate for two hours or three hours ago on retreats and all that stuff, but when someone cuts you off right in traffic or something else, you know, I'm either still angry. Not me personally, but you, like you as a person might still be angry. Yeah. Still might be resentful, still might snap. But they're like, but I'm. But I'm wearing all the right clothes, I'm wearing the right trinkets, I'm meditating all the time. I'm reading the right books. But I'm still so angry or I'm still so sad or I'm still so traumatized by this.
- [37:51]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [37:51]
Alex Ferrari
What do you say to people that are kind of stuck in that where they're, they're anxious, they even still feel anxious. What is missing from the effortless mindness? The effortless mindfulness that you talk about?
- [38:06]
Locke Kelly
Yeah. So the effortless mindfulness combines the, the primacy of this awareness based knowing which is available. And in some ways it, the dimension is free of pain, free of worry, free of shame, free of fear. And then it comes and is with parts of us that have fear and anger and shame and that are. And, and it, the key is that it's not about stopping. If, if something arises apart, certainly the body will react. If you're standing on a corner and a car comes right by your. Your feet and beeps its horn, you're gonna jump. I mean nobody will not, you know, no one will be like huh. Because. Or the, or they'll get hit if they see a car coming at them. They have to move. So, so there's some human dimension that initially the, the arising of that experience is not you. It's arising to you. It's part of you. The anger. Then the question is, does it turn into resentment and, or judgment? I shouldn't be angry. Like a spiritual ego judging you, you know, what's wrong with you? You should be more spiritual, you know, stop that. Rather than, rather than realizing we all have. So, so I combine in this the, as I mentioned, the kind of direct path non dual meditation with neuroscience and then psychology and particularly in psychology, this, what's called parts based psychology and internal family systems is one of the best known versions of that And I've co taught with Dick Schwartz, who's the founder of that. So the, the framework there is that the healing agent is this authentic self. And you actually, the goal is to live your life from self leadership so that that self is the leader. But the work is to realize that there are all these different sub personalities or what's called parts, or Jung called them Personas or, you know, repressed contents that will get triggered and come up and they have a certain world view when they take over us. Like, that guy shouldn't have done that. I can't believe he cut me off. Like, who are these people? I'm gonna follow? You know, they, they have their own personality. But you, you step out of that and you're with that part of you. So it. So you can realize, okay, you know, it's okay. You soothe yourself. You do like a self soothing. And then you unburden the. The parts that get that tend to get triggered and everything. Then you have these functional parts of you because you need them to do, you know, to learn, you know, know how to drive and you know, do do functional things. But they're no longer like an angry driver. They're just a driver that gets startled and go like, oh, that guy. Wow, I can't believe that's so dangerous. Wow. Man, oh man. And then you let, then you. This kind of authentic self comes in and the next moment and you're resilient.
- [41:36]
Alex Ferrari
Another thing is that so many seekers are chasing enlightenment. This thing, whatever that is, that definition of enlightenment is Buddha. Buddha had a great marketing team with enlightenment, so they put it out there, but they want to find enlightenment without. With avoiding trauma.
- [41:56]
Locke Kelly
Right.
- [41:56]
Alex Ferrari
Can someone really awaken without healing? Or does one have to just. Does one. Or does one have to really go in and do the work before that's awakening happens? Because. Because can you be awake but carrying around all this baggage of trauma or pain or guilt or shame with you?
- [42:16]
Locke Kelly
Right? Yeah. So this kind of relates to what you were saying before about these two. Two dimensions. So I was just teaching a. A seminar this past weekend called Waking up and Growing Up. So basically, you know, and this guy, Ken Wilber talks about waking up, growing up and showing up. Right?
- [42:38]
Alex Ferrari
So.
- [42:39]
Locke Kelly
So this is the key, is that the awakeness doesn't have to grow up. This, from this perspective, the awakeness, the freedom is already here equally within all of us as much as the Buddha. We have that awake consciousness available inherently already within us. Then we each have individual human growth and traumas. And so you can have what's called initial awakening. Out of identification with being like the ego and the body mind and go like, oh, wait a minute, that's not who I am. I'm. This awareness you have this kind of. However, this is the history of many of the spiritual teachers who have acted out. So you know, you know, you know, teachers who then through anger, sex, power, gluttony. Yeah, gluttony, drugs. You know, there's a whole history of, of some of the have, you know, very authentic, you know, a pretty good percentage of modern teachers who have fallen. And it's because having. I've actually treated some of them and certainly have treated more of the people who were hurt by them. It's that they have this initial awakening and they didn't do the trauma work and they actually can stay in what's called a spiritual bypass and not do the trauma work. And what happens is kind of this adolescent part of them usually takes over and they're like, I can do whatever I want. It's all relative. It's all, it's all good. So they take on personality wise, the. That ultimate sense that all is already okay and it's all, there's no problem. There's no, you know, right and wrong, good and evil. Ultimately it's all unfolding. But that's not true on the relative level that people, you need respect and you know, and, and integrity and treating people value me, but they just treat them like objects because it's like, well, I can just do what I want because I'm free and I'm awake. And so that ego takes over. The spiritual ego takes over the initial awakening and acts out through the unhealed trauma.
- [45:08]
Alex Ferrari
You know, I'm assuming you've heard of the Epstein files. And they, they, there was a large dump the other day of, of different files and emails and things like that. And there was a very predominant, who I won't mention, but a very predominant spiritual leader who everybody in the spiritual space has heard of because he was a, he was a, he was a. One of the trailblazers in the space back in the 80s. He was on Oprah all the time and all that stuff. And when I read that, you know, there was always something inside me that I said, you know, I don't, I don't know why, I just don't want him on the show. And I listen, I don't have 100% batting average either. You know, I don't. I'm not batting a thousand with people who come on the show over the years. I do the best I can. But there was just something about that, that in that energy I was like, you know what? I don't know why. Just, just don't want them on the show. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [46:09]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker and Culture Pop. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings. When you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.
- [46:41]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes best in state five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union
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Howie Mandel
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Locke Kelly
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Locke Kelly
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Alex Ferrari
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Ryan Seacrest
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- [47:45]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show from your point of view, and I think you touched upon it a little bit, but I want to dive in a little bit deeper on what makes these spiritual leaders who a lot of people follow. I'm not talking cult leaders, that's a whole other conversation. But I'm talking about spiritual leaders, people who read books and go to seminars. And some of them follow them around like it's the Grateful Dead, you know, and, but they're not what they seem to be or the truth comes out about them because I'll be honest with you, I've, I've had people who come on the show and you know, we had a little Bit. A little bit of a banter prior to us recording. And you're the same human being that logged in, right, that I'm talking to right now?
- [48:33]
Locke Kelly
That's right.
- [48:34]
Alex Ferrari
People. People ask all the time, is Alex really Alex?
- [48:37]
Locke Kelly
Right?
- [48:38]
Alex Ferrari
I'm like, yeah, I'm the same dude. Nothing, Nothing's changed. But I've had people come on who are one way right before the camera turns on, and then they turn on. I'm like, right. Oh, these people are. Oh, okay.
- [48:54]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [48:54]
Alex Ferrari
And sometimes I don't air those interviews because I, I have a respect and responsibility to my audience. Long question, sir, to ask you is how do. How do they. How do they fall so far and on and their mental status just as a psychotherapist, what is truly going on inside their head? You remember that. That documentary series on Netflix about osha?
- [49:21]
Locke Kelly
Yes. Oh, show.
- [49:22]
Alex Ferrari
Oh, show. Yeah. Great documentary. I mean, I thought it was fascinating.
- [49:26]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [49:27]
Alex Ferrari
But he, he has millions.
- [49:31]
Locke Kelly
Oh, yeah.
- [49:32]
Alex Ferrari
Tens of millions of followers and still to this day around the world. So he did have.
- [49:38]
Locke Kelly
Oh, no.
- [49:39]
Alex Ferrari
In his teachings.
- [49:40]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [49:41]
Alex Ferrari
But, you know, he had 78 Rolls
- [49:43]
Locke Kelly
Royces and, and, and machine guns.
- [49:47]
Alex Ferrari
And machine guns. You know, we've. We've gone off astray here a little bit.
- [49:51]
Locke Kelly
And he was deeply on, deeply on. On painkillers as well. He was right.
- [49:57]
Alex Ferrari
And then drenched in gold and.
- [49:59]
Locke Kelly
Yeah.
- [49:59]
Alex Ferrari
And, you know, had women all around. It was just like I would. So it's so interesting to see how, like, the person I was talking to you about in the Epstein files has provided tremendous amount of value to the spiritual space, but yet all this other crap, like, what the hell, man? So what's your thoughts on it? Can you explain it to people?
- [50:16]
Locke Kelly
I mean, it's just. It's just kind of simply what the simplest way to say it is. That is what you were saying. There's almost two dimensions of us. There's the spiritual and the. And the relative human. And if you get a spiritual. And then some people have a very intellectual or charismatic part of their personality that then they let the ego can take over and use the spiritual knowledge as a commodity so they don't see their own, you know, humanity and humility, you know, because there's something where, you know, real people who are authentic are doing a service, you know, doing this at a service, not, you know, to be a superstar, but even when they become famous. Because I know some who have, you know, become more famous and remained humble and were genuine from the beginning, but others have not. So it's this willingness to do the you know, to do the honest psychological work and to admit that awakening doesn't, doesn't mean you're not, you don't still have the same human. Just like you still have a body that you still need to eat food and you still need to, to take care of it. You have to take care of your psychological dimension which has its, you know, it has its wounds and it has its strengths and it has its, you know, tendencies toward selfishness or grandiosity which are the kind of temptations in any, you know, you know, power, you know, power corrupts if somebody becomes famous. It can become a temptation for some.
- [52:07]
Alex Ferrari
Coming from where I come from, I've seen Hollywood and working in the film industry, I've seen what happens to an actor or an actress who was nobody and then all of a sudden fame gets thrown on top of them and it's, it destroys most people. But the spiritual fame is a whole other conversation. Yeah, because I love the way you're explaining it that the, the ego now has the information of the spiritual side and the experiences they could have had. Very sound deep awakenings, you know, Kundalini awakenings, whatever, that, a near death experience even, that really transforms them. But then the ego comes in and like I love you, what you said, the intellectual, if they're intellectually, they'll start to rework it a little bit. Do you believe that these, these people or any person who starts to, to go that way is that they have not done the work on the human level to, to release that trauma, to release that, that programming to release those things, to really understand how to be humble in this, in this situation.
- [53:17]
Locke Kelly
Yeah, I mean, I, I think there's a progression and I want to, you know, speak to your question and to the audience who probably are also interested in how do they avoid them as they wake up too.
- [53:27]
Alex Ferrari
Yes, exactly.
- [53:29]
Locke Kelly
Yeah. Because that's our, you know, that's my own, you know, and some of it's about what's called awakening, head awakening. You wake from your like ego and then you become more embodied and then there's almost like a heart awakening. So some of the glimpses that I do, it's called dropping from head mind to heart mind. And you literally unhook your awareness and you let your center disidentify from thought, feel your body directly from within and then drop below your emotional heart into kind of this safe, compassionate, wise center which is kind of open and boundless. And you look from here and you, when you're more awake in the heart, you just, you just see everyone's the same. Nobody's hierarchy, nobody's lower. Everyone is precious. And you know, you, you kind of see clearly that it's not about praise or blame or success or failure, that it's just about showing up and being real.
- [54:46]
Alex Ferrari
Now you, you mentioned your glimpses. You teach small glimpses rather than long retreats, which is what kind of.
- [54:53]
Locke Kelly
Or long meditations. I do long retreats, but within that, that, you know, people go down to the beach, they come back, they talk to each other at lunch, then we do silence, then we do glimpses, then, you know, so it's a very kind of training to be in the, in the world, in a, in a nice environment.
- [55:12]
Alex Ferrari
So. But why are, why are brief moments sometimes more powerful than years of practice? Why are these little glimpses that you teach more powerful than sitting in a cave in the Himalayas for 8 hours a day or 12 hours a day for years on end?
- [55:29]
Locke Kelly
Yeah, so. So the, the key is even if you do long or do some preliminary, it's really. The preliminary practices are often to calm the mind and soothe the animal body which is agitated your nervous system and your mind, you're anxious or depressed just from your. So you kind of calm that system. But the key is that a glimpse isn't just a meditation. It's actually a shift from the predominance of mental personality centered identity to awareness based embodiment. So any awakening is a moment is just has to be like that. It can't be slow. It can be slow. Slowly you can get more relaxed. And then it ha. And then it dropped the bucket. The bottom of the bucket drops out, you know, as they say in the Zen tradition. But there's a shift that is literally like are you aware of being identified with the small self looking out of your eyes? Okay, so what if that were just a part of you and you thank that part and now you just allowed your awareness to disidentify, open up, let go of the problem solver. And then what's here when there's no problem to solve? What's this that's aware of that thinker, that problem solver, aware of your body and is here and alert. And so that shift takes those, takes just a moment and anything else can, can. If it's slower, then you're involved in some egoic, deliberate, effortful action called meditation. So they even call it in the Mahamudra tradition, the goal is non meditation because, because you're awake and you're, you're not trying to meditate, you're just what's called recognizing this dimension, then realizing, oh, it's me and then familiarizing yourself with the relative world from here.
- [58:04]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [58:06]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker and Culture Pop. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.
- [58:38]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union craving the coffee
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- [59:42]
Alex Ferrari
and now back to the show.
- [59:45]
Locke Kelly
So it's just those kind of simple 1, 2, 3 and then you just start to move and talk and walk. Then you lose it. No big surprise. You get caught. You learn that you're caught. How you get, how you unhook or unblend. You learn to return home to your heart. Then open to see from the eyes of your heart. You know, these are kind of words I'm using. But it's, it's very experiential. It's not intellectual. It's there are these glimpses that take you and show you how to shift your consciousness. And that does it through different ways, different starting points for different learning types. And different people have different obstacles that keep them from from letting go and, and discovering this.
- [60:41]
Alex Ferrari
Locke, let me ask you, because you seem, you know, obviously you're an educated man, so you obviously are intellectual in your mind, irrational, rounded. You sound very grounded. But yet you are approaching consciousness, mindfulness, and even spirituality with this kind of lens. But yet I see that you also are playing around in the woo a little bit. Bit the woo. Woo as you will a bit as well. So you're. You, you're dancing these two. You dance the line very nicely. What is your take on all of this? This is a bigger question. You know, what is the meaning of life? No, what is. What is your perception of why we're here? What are we doing? And all of these things that you're teaching all your life's work, how is that incorporate in a system of understanding this insane thing called mindfulness? Beautiful, insane, painful, loving. It is all. It's everything everywhere, all at once. That's what this is. And we're all just trying to figure it out and we're all trying to create evens within it. But I'd love to hear your personal guide after doing all this research.
- [61:54]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [61:55]
Alex Ferrari
Going off to Sri Lanka and hanging out with monks and Tibetans and Buddhists and all of this stuff. What is your take on spirituality? What is, you know, what lens do you see life through?
- [62:08]
Locke Kelly
So I would say that the. The first thing is, is that what I'm doing and how I answer that is by what's called pointing or sharing or inviting people to have an. A direct experience for themselves. Because that's the only answer that nobody can tell you. There's no book, there's no. And that, that's actually one of the more seductive things is the beautiful poetry about it, you know, from people. Whereas when I talk, I give kind of, okay, here's a map, here's some methods, and here's some markers so you know where you are. And then the method is the key. So there's different methods. I'll give you. Let's try this method. Let's try this method. They're all going the same place. They're all showing. They're. They're asking you, don't look at me. Look back at yourself. Look within.
- [63:08]
Alex Ferrari
Yes.
- [63:09]
Locke Kelly
Now here's how to look within. And here's what you're looking for. And here is what's not so important to look for. There's a lot of stuff in there, thoughts, feelings, and says, okay, let that come and go. Now look for what doesn't come and go. And then see if you can Rest as that which doesn't come and go. And then as this, just include what comes and goes and just see if they're not. Actually not two things. And all that's changed is not the content, but the context.
- [63:56]
Alex Ferrari
It's beautiful because you're right. There's. There's so many. I always tell people, and, and this is one of the core pillars of what we do because it's. It, it is a slippery slope. Look, it is. And there is a lot of. There's a lot of temptations out there and a lot of shortcuts, a lot of shortcuts that people sell out there. But you. As I both know, there is no shortcuts. This takes time.
- [64:20]
Locke Kelly
There's no. But that's the interesting thing. There's no shortcuts, but there is. It is already here. So there's no.
- [64:26]
Alex Ferrari
That's the point.
- [64:26]
Locke Kelly
Some of the shortcuts are long cuts, like take you down, like they say. They say, like, you got. You got to do all these, you know, you got to do a 120,000 prostrations, you know, before you're, you know, you're. As if you have to earn something or as if you have to. So there's some. So there's. It's always a paradox. There's always awakeness and there's always unfolding. There's always a spontaneous presence. And there's also a kind of a mixing or a growing up and waking up that never stops. That's never. You never get to a place called enlightenment. So I don't even use the word enlightenment. I use the word awakening because it has an ing. So it's always this dance of the ultimate and the relative, the spiritual and the mundane. And they're always dancing and you're always getting caught in one. And you step back and then you come back in and you dance and, and. And then you feel this, this kind of flow.
- [65:39]
Alex Ferrari
You said something that was pretty profound, is that when as a teacher, you always aim people back at themselves.
- [65:47]
Locke Kelly
Yes.
- [65:48]
Alex Ferrari
And that is one of the core pillars of what I do and one of the core pillars of next level soul is to let everybody know if there is a teacher or a guru or a spiritual leader who says, I am the way.
- [66:00]
Locke Kelly
Right.
- [66:01]
Howie Mandel
Run.
- [66:02]
Locke Kelly
Right.
- [66:03]
Alex Ferrari
They're guides. They should be guides to guiding you to your own power. Because Christ said. Christ said it very easily. What I can do, you can do in more than the kingdom of heaven is within you. Those are those core pillars. And when you have people who are out there saying, I'm the way, I am the master. You must bow to me or you must understand. That's when I start getting a little funky.
- [66:24]
Locke Kelly
Yeah, yeah. The way I say, the way I say that is that the role of a teacher is to introduce you to your own inner teacher.
- [66:34]
Alex Ferrari
Absolutely. Oh, that's great. I like that.
- [66:37]
Locke Kelly
Yeah. So you've got your own inner guidance, you've got your own inner wisdom. Everyone's the same and that what I give is pointers, a little bit of a map, helpful hints, but, but they're all toward. Don't listen to what I'm saying. And in fact, when I do the glimpses, the. Because the premise is that the awakeness is here as well as the mental, emotional humanness. I'm talking to the awake. You. You. I'm asking you through, through your mind, through your language, through my. From my awakeness to my language to your language, to your awakeness. Can you, the awareness, notice what doesn't come and go? Can you, the awareness drop out of your head and be equally within your whole body? Can you be more open hearted and look more from this open hearted place that's already connected? So, so when you talk to the, the awake, that's why it's direct. It's like, all right, let's, you know. And then now there, from there you can look back honestly and say, okay, now can you see where you get caught? Oh, now can you see the trauma? Oh, now can you? And you're like, oh, yeah, sure. Okay. Because now you're not defensive and now you're not looking from a judgmental, analytical part. You're looking from this presence when you're like, oh sure, that's right, I do that. I get, I tend to get mad. Someone cuts me off, then I get mad that I'm mad. Then the part of me says, don't get mad, you're mad. Then the next part says, well, you could, it's okay, you can get mad because that's very human. Yeah, but not that mad. But you
- [68:32]
Alex Ferrari
get, get out of, get out of my headlock. Get out of. Get out. Get out of my head.
- [68:36]
Locke Kelly
That whole stacking of the.
- [68:40]
Alex Ferrari
It's like two voice. Well, it's the angel and the devil on your shoulder kind of thing. In many ways. What is the biggest mistake people make when they're trying to find this within them? To be present, to be mindful, to be con, to understand their consciousness, to be in the moment. What is the biggest mistake they make?
- [69:01]
Locke Kelly
I mean, you know, you can start almost anywhere in a Lot of a lot. There's a lot of good paths that have initial preliminary help. You know, doing yoga, qigong, Buddhist meditation, going to church, praying, doing a rosary, doing. You know, those start to calm you and, and center you. But then the mistake isn't as much a mistake. It's. It's that the map hasn't been. You don't know what you're looking for.
- [69:37]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [69:40]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Lindor, Chips Ahoy, Gatorade, host, Ziploc and Zoa. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings. When you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.
- [70:10]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes best in state five years running.
- [70:17]
Locke Kelly
Why?
- [70:18]
WSECU Announcer
Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [70:41]
Locke Kelly
Too fast, Trevor. Too fast.
- [70:43]
Howie Mandel
Here at the Zebra, research shows people would rather teach their kids to drive than search for auto and home insurance.
- [70:48]
Locke Kelly
I know what I'm doing, mom.
- [70:50]
Howie Mandel
Or attend a corporate team building workshop.
- [70:53]
Alex Ferrari
Go team. Feel that synergy.
- [70:54]
Howie Mandel
Or be regaled by Uncle Frank's conspiracy theories.
- [70:58]
Alex Ferrari
They're listening to us right now.
- [71:00]
Howie Mandel
That's why the Zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can compare. Today at the Zebra.com we do the searching, you do the saving.
- [71:10]
Locke Kelly
Shh.
- [71:11]
Howie Mandel
They're here.
- [71:15]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show.
- [71:20]
Locke Kelly
You don't know. And you don't know how to look. And you don't know what's looking. So the strange thing is that the spirit is already within you. Whether you want to call it the spirit or this awareness, consciousness or wake consciousness, it is what knows itself. And it's invisible. It's. And yet it's alert and. And knowing. But it doesn't know any information. It's just awake. Which is why the word awake, it also includes and is inherent within your body and all the personality parts. It's not separate, it's not other, it's not looking from outside. There's a wholeness to the spirit and the body that body, mind and spirit are not separate and that. But that what is knowing is not thought. It's some kind of clear awareness. So it's not just intuition. So this category of what that is, there's words for it, you know, the Sacred Heart in, in Catholicism they call it the Sacred Heart or bodhichitta in, in Tibetan Buddhism, which means, it means awake consciousness or awake heart. But it has a compassionate clarity that it's called rigpa, which just means awake awareness or turia, which again means that there's some dimension. So that's the first thing to find that is not on the map of psychology and even philosophy is this awareness based knowing that's not bypassed, that's not dissociated, but is actually spacious and pervasive. And how to experience that, when people experience that through a glimpse of, they're like, oh my God, that's so simple. Like, and it's so freeing. Why didn't anyone ever tell me this?
- [73:32]
Alex Ferrari
Now we kind of touched upon this earlier, but I want to kind of ask you in a different way because I think it is something that stops people from going down the path which so many people fear awakening because it means losing ambition, losing the edge that they have built up to.
- [73:50]
Locke Kelly
Right.
- [73:50]
Alex Ferrari
Be able to do what they're doing in the world. What actually happens to drive creativity and success when you're doing it? And again, it's that balance we were talking about. What do you think?
- [74:01]
Locke Kelly
Yeah, so. So this is first. So for that very reason and because much of what I'm doing is this path which is in the world, you know, and, and is teaching people who are just doing everyday work and not not separating it out into being a monastic. Is that one of the best doorways to awakeness is what I call awake loving flow. So what I say to people is, okay, so tell me what you do in your free time that you love doing. And isn't it with your eyes open and isn't it engaged with something? So people will start to say, I play music, I walk in nature, I do this sport. What sport? Oh, there's a particular sport. This person does skiing, this person does surfing, this person swims, this person does bicycling, this person runs. Oh, really? Okay, what else? Oh, gardening. Oh, I garden. So what you do in your ch. In your free time is you do an activity with your eyes open that drops you out, wakes you up from the ego centered life and connects you to the world and to the spirit. So that doorway, I call the doorway of flow. So the flow, the flow. No. So I, I take people into this, I do this a couple different things, but called a memory door where I'll say, okay, now go back, remember that. Take yourself there right now. Remember, very specific time, you're walking with friends, you walk up this mountaintop, you're laughing, you look out over the sky, you just feel so good. And normally you come back down and say, oh, I can't go back there for a year. You know, like, what am I going to do? That's the only time I felt. So do that now. Go, go there. Visualize this, feel that. Now notice it's not about the mountain, it's not about the people. It's you what's revealed by the support of that, those conditions. You, the free, awake you. Now let go of the visualization, now let go of the qualities and open your eyes right now. Aren't you the same free, awake, open eyed human being right now? And couldn't you just go and do something that's the same, that doesn't require a person, place or thing like that?
- [76:44]
Alex Ferrari
Beautifully said, my friend, beautifully said. Now my final question is if humanity is in a collective awakening crisis right now, which I believe they are, you know, what do you think we're being asked to learn in this moment as the rest of this world seems to be crumbling around us as we speak?
- [77:03]
Locke Kelly
I mean, I think, I think it's gotta be what we've been discussing, which is how do you bring together the, the spiritual and the, and the human? How do those two go together and how do you experience that? Don't think about what you should be doing in response until you go and become it and then see what you're moved to do. See what kind of curiosity and courage and creativity come forth in how to respond. So, so it's really, you know, finding deep, clear ways of glimpsing who you are, of returning there that are effective and not just doing the initial calming meditation of just calm your, calm your body and brain and thinking, that's enough. But you got to go to the heart of, of who you are to just be and then learn how to do from being.
- [78:07]
Alex Ferrari
Now, Locke, where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world? Sir?
- [78:11]
Locke Kelly
So certainly the best place is the website, which is Lockelly.org L O C H-K-L-L-Y.org It's a non profit organization and there are a bunch of courses, online courses, live events, and particularly my app, which is, you know, available in your pocket and has 1 minute, 2 minute, 3 minute, 4 minute, 5 minute, 10 minute. Get glimpses for different types of people. And it kind of takes you through an intro course and you can get a feeling or an experience of what. Of what this is like. So yeah, go check it out and see if it's for you.
- [78:58]
Alex Ferrari
Locke. It's been a pleasure, my friend and honor, speaking to you today. I hope it helps people awaken a little bit more and also just
- [79:07]
Howie Mandel
do
- [79:07]
Alex Ferrari
that balance that we've been talking about, balancing the spiritual and the human all in one. Because we're not here to be purely spiritual. No, we're here to experience the human.
- [79:17]
Locke Kelly
Absolutely. Yes. It's more fun that way.
- [79:21]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah. Because we got the spiritual on the other side covered. That's. Yes, we do that all the time. We're actually doing it right now as you and I are talking.
- [79:29]
Locke Kelly
That's right. Our.
- [79:30]
Alex Ferrari
Our higher selves are hanging out in a bar somewhere here laughing about what we're doing right now. They're right here.
- [79:36]
Locke Kelly
No, they're. They're actually right here and they're in the middle of it, connecting each other.
- [79:41]
Alex Ferrari
But then, but. But also, if. If everything is. If. If we are living all of our lives at this one time and there's no pass in those future, then there are versions as of somewhere sitting in a bar.
- [79:52]
Locke Kelly
That's right.
- [79:54]
Alex Ferrari
While we're also here, it's. It starts to make the head hurt. Lock. It has been a pleasure, my friend. Thank you again and keep up the good work, my friend. I appreciate it.
- [80:01]
Locke Kelly
You so great. Thank you so much, Alex. Great to meet you. Great to be with you. Hope everyone enjoys.
- [80:09]
Alex Ferrari
Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today. If you feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll find the show notes for this episode@nextlevelsoul.com 676 and if your soul is craving an even deeper journey, step into Next Level Soul tv. Our streaming sanctions sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries, original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and transformative teachings. It's a space created to support your awakening, your healing, and your return to the truth of who you really are. Begin your journey at Next LevelSoul TV. Until next time. Keep expanding, keep seeking and keep walking your path towards the next level. Soul of your soul.
- [81:02]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's Stock Up Savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Lindor, Chips Ahoy, Gatorade, Post, Ziploc and Zoa. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.
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WSECU Announcer
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Howie Mandel
Most people would
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Alex Ferrari
rather assemble a 300 piece cabinet than search for insurance.
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Howie Mandel
That's why the zebra searches for you, comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can compare.
- [82:15]
Alex Ferrari
Today@the zebra.com
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Ryan Seacrest
hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's Stock Up Savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker and Culture Pop. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.
- [82:50]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the elite mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's Credit Union here's the truth.
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Ryan Seacrest
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Howie Mandel
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Ryan Seacrest
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Ryan Seacrest
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Ryan Seacrest
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