FLASHBACK FRIDAYS: VATICAN COVER-UP: KNIGHTS TEMPLAR and the Secret HOLY BLOODLINE of Jesus! with Templar Timothy Hogan

Summary

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Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari

"Vatican Cover-Up: Knights Templar and the Secret Holy Bloodline of Jesus!"

Guest: Templar Grand Master Timothy Hogan
Date: September 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Next Level Soul dives deeply into the hidden and esoteric history of the Knights Templar with Grand Master Timothy Hogan. Hosted by Alex Ferrari, the conversation explores the Templars’ secret origins, their spiritual philosophy, lost technologies, international adventures, and the truth behind myths like the Holy Grail and Jesus’ bloodline. The discussion challenges mainstream religious narratives, exposing Vatican cover-ups, and re-centering ancient wisdom on consciousness, reincarnation, and unity that modern spiritual seekers are rediscovering today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Knights Templar—Myth vs. Reality

• Endurance after Suppression
  • The Templars officially suppressed by Pope Clement V in 1307, but survived by going underground, changing names, and blending into other professions like stonemasons.
  • “They staged a roundup of Templars...they went to round them up. There should have been thousands of them in Paris at the time and there just weren’t...the Templar treasury in Paris was gone by the time they went to round them up.” —Timothy Hogan (05:00)
• Friday the 13th's Dark Origin
  • This date's unlucky reputation stems from the Templar purge: “October 13th, 1307 is when that took place...From that point on, Friday the 13th just became unlucky.” (08:05)
• Ancient Roots Beyond the Crusades
  • The Templar Order helped develop modern banking to empower the people rather than monarchs and the Church. Their early role was to protect all pilgrims, not just Christians.
  • “They were literally giving everybody the opportunity to worship as they chose in holy space. Very Christ like, you know.” (11:10)

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2. Templar Spiritual Philosophy & Esoteric Knowledge

• Teachings on Reincarnation and Initiation
  • Templars practiced the “consulamentum” rite, granting freedom from reincarnation unless one chooses otherwise—a belief traceable back to the Albigensians and even Manichaeism.
    • “If you receive this rite, it means you don’t have to reincarnate anymore unless you choose to...So they believed in reincarnation back then in the West.” —Timothy Hogan (16:15)
• Christ Consciousness
  • Templars saw Jesus as a brother and the Christos as universal consciousness (akin to Buddha consciousness). Christ was both a man and a state of divine realization.
    • “They recognized Christ—or the Christos—as a universal consciousness. They saw Jesus as like their brother. The Christ was speaking as the universal consciousness.” (16:45)
• Numerology and Symbology
  • Jesus’ (Iesous) gematria equals 888, representing the eight sphere, i.e., higher consciousness or Gnosis—mirroring Eastern notions of enlightenment and the chakras.
    • “The seven seals...the seven chakras...so the opening of each seal represented the death of our old perception and awakening to a new state of universal consciousness.” (18:16)
• Cross Symbolism Across Cultures
  • The Templar red cross predates Christianity, found in Sumerian and countless ancient cultures, symbolizing the union of spirit (vertical) and matter (horizontal), united by consciousness.
    • “The combination of the two represented spiritualizing the material and materializing the spiritual. The medium that unites both...is consciousness.” (21:15)

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3. Templars, Atlantis & Ancient Technologies

• Connecting Flood Myths and Atlantis
  • The Templar search for artifacts links Noah’s flood with Atlantis legends. Templars recognized identical stories in cultures worldwide and sought relics from that lost age.
    • “They...realized they were talking about the same thing, that the flood myths of Noah were the same myths as the Atlantis myth...” (29:39)
• Templar Voyages to America
  • Evidence and oral traditions indicate Templars traveled to the Americas centuries before Columbus, sharing knowledge and secret grips with native cultures.
    • “The Templars were...trading silver with the Mayans...the Nahuatl cultures of Mexico referred to their homeland as Aztlan...Aztlan, Atlantis...the same thing.” (30:18)
• Ark of the Covenant as Atlantean Technology
  • The Ark is described as an ancient energy capacitor—one of many, not one—based on alternating gold and acacia wood, using monoatomic elements to create free energy.
    • “What we would refer to today as the Ark of the Covenant was actually an Atlantean technology power source...We found several of these...our order has found six.” (32:52)
    • “If you put a superconductive substance in a super static capacitor, it just builds up a tremendous amount of electricity...Free energy, yeah.” (37:09)

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4. Guardianship, Conscience, & the Grail Mysteries

• Spiritual & Ethical Custodianship
  • The Templars became guardians to prevent ancient technology or sacred artifacts from falling into the wrong hands (e.g., “Genghis Khan with this kind of power causes problems...You can’t do that”—40:47).
• Cathedrals as Body Metaphors
  • Templar builders designed cathedrals to mirror the human body and inner spiritual process, seeing each person as a “walking temple”—the pineal gland (third eye) as the Holy of Holies.
    • “Where your third eye is, that’s where your communication device is with God. It’s implying that we are all walking temples, literally.” (42:36)
• Holy Grail Origins
  • The Grail myth predates Christianity, rooted in Sumerian alchemy (“Graal”). In Templar tradition, it’s not just a cup, but a symbol of transmutation, enlightenment, and the marriage of individual and universal consciousness.
    • “First place in history where the word grail shows up is...GRA AL...was associated with the alchemical science of ancient Sumer.” (55:31)
    • “From a Templar perspective, Christ is a universal consciousness...What’s the life force of the universal consciousness?...that’s the secret of the Grail.” (64:43)
  • Legends of the Grail are also associated with alchemical elixirs (the “blood of Christ”)—possibly even entheogens (“If you take...DMT and opens your perception to the other side, that could also be the Grail”—66:12).

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5. Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and the Secret Bloodline

• Alternative Templar Gospels
  • Templar tradition holds that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, who was herself previously married to John the Baptist, the original destined Messiah. After John’s death, Jesus took on the messianic mission.
  • Both Jesus and Mary Magdalene were initiates in ancient mystery schools, with Mary understood as the incarnation of Sophia (Wisdom), and Jesus as Christos (Universal Consciousness).
    • “She was probably a high priestess of the Egyptian tradition...the wedding of Cana...really the wedding between Mary Magdalene and Jesus.” (85:16)
    • “Mary Magdalene symbolically represented Sophia, the goddess of Wisdom...the wedding of Cana really represents our own individual soul wedding with the universal consciousness.” (83:52)
• Jesus Survived the Crucifixion
  • Templar lore, confirmed by symbolic depictions in places like Rosslyn Chapel, states Jesus survived crucifixion, lived on, and fathered a bloodline—a tradition also echoed in Eastern legends.
  • “He survived the Crucifixion and he went on to live and had kids. 100%, moved over to India, in fact.” (69:50)
• Challenge to Mainstream Doctrine
  • The podcast persistently examines how the Vatican and other powers suppressed the feminine, altered records, and rewrote history to maintain control.

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6. Templar Influence: From Freemasonry to America

• Freemasons and Rosicrucians as Templar Descendants
  • After suppression, Templar wisdom went underground and resurfaced as Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism, which in turn played key roles in American revolution and founding.
    • “The two big expressions that came out of the Templar Order were Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism...most of the founding fathers were Freemasons or Rosicrucians.” (110:01)
  • Benjamin Franklin and many founders were directly linked to this lineage.
• Transatlantic Treasures and Columbus
  • Templar relics (arks, ossuaries, texts) hidden in America inspired Columbus, who used the Templar cross on his voyage, trying to gain trust from indigenous peoples.
    • “The whole reason Columbus went to Spain to get funding...he knew that the Templars were already coming over here. That's why he flew the Templar Cross on his boats.” (114:25)

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7. Vatican Archives, Cover-ups, and Napoleon

• The Vatican’s Role in Historical Suppression
  • Napoleon seized and examined the Vatican’s archives, seeking Templar secrets. Documents were later selectively returned, but new “discoveries” (like the Chinon Parchment) are likely forgeries meant to exonerate the Vatican.
    • “Napoleon...brought all the Vatican archives back to France...sifting through...specifically looking for Templar information.” (128:49)

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8. Modern Templars: Mission and Message

• Contemporary Templar Work
  • The warrior-monk concept persists: spiritual seekers striving to unite inner reflection and outward worldly action in pursuit of higher consciousness.
    • “How do you engage in the spiritual practice on the one hand, while also doing your work in the world?...That’s still the mission of the Templars today.” (134:13)
  • “What you’re doing right now with the show, that's Templar work. You are looking at these deeper spiritual truths while still paying your taxes.” (135:16)
  • The Order aims to protect, foster, and share this perennial wisdom for the benefit of all humanity—promoting the unity behind all spiritual traditions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Meaning of the Grail:
  • “What's the connecting point between the universal consciousness of the Creator and our individual consciousness? That’s the secret of the Grail.” —Timothy Hogan (64:43)
• Love and Oneness:
  • “Love is the conscious connection that unites everything. But it’s realized. You can't have love without it being realized as a connection.” (141:26)
• On God:
  • “To me, Source or God is the pure light of and life of realized consciousness...The true God is a God of light and love, and that's our destiny of who we're becoming.” (139:48, 141:03)
• What It Means to Be a Templar:
  • “A Templar is a warrior monk. In the original Star Wars script, the Jedi were referred to as Templar-Jedi Knights.” (133:22)
• On Modern Religion:
  • “We recognize that the seed of God, what we call the sacred flame, is within everybody and every culture and every religion.” (52:24)
• Revelations and Chakras:
  • “144,000 are saved…it’s alluding to the number of petals or the extensions out of each chakra.” (95:19)
• Joining of the Masculine and Feminine in Gnosis:
  • “The wedding of Cana represented not only Jesus and Mary Magdalene getting married, but…symbolically represented...the Christos and the Sophia, which was the goddess of wisdom.” (83:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Knights Templar’s Survival & Friday the 13th: 04:48–08:20
• Spiritual Philosophy: Christ Consciousness & Reincarnation: 16:15–19:13
• The Cross: Ancient Symbolism: 20:46–23:46
• Atlantis and Templar Artifacts: 26:29–33:56
• Ark of the Covenant as Technology: 33:56–42:36
• Templars as Jedi & Spiritual Guardians: 43:14–46:17
• The Holy Grail’s Origins and Alchemy: 55:31–66:23
• Templar Tradition on Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Bloodline: 66:32–87:37
• Templar Wisdom in Freemasonry and US Founding: 108:10–114:25
• Vatican Archives, Napoleon, and Cover-ups: 123:38–131:02
• Modern Templar Mission: 133:11–137:03
• Timothy Hogan on Fulfillment, God, Love, and Oneness: 137:05–142:33
• Closing Spiritual Encouragement: 143:14–144:41

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Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, candid, and accessible, directly challenging orthodox narratives with a mix of scholarly confidence, wit, and spiritual openness. Timothy Hogan’s explanations call on ancient texts, personal research, and modern parallels, while Alex Ferrari keeps things relatable with humor and contemporary references ("They're the Jedi of their day"). The episode is equally suited for history buffs, spiritual seekers, and fans of transformative, myth-busting podcasts.

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Final Reflection

This episode offers a sweeping view of Western esotericism, showing the Templars as carriers of a forgotten yet perennial wisdom: a spirituality that honors unity, personal gnosis, and liberation—hidden beneath layers of political intrigue and religious dogma, yet more relevant and accessible today than ever before.

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For more:

• Timothy Hogan’s Gaia series "Mysteries of the Knights Templar"
• Find Timothy Hogan on Facebook and online for more in-depth talks and writings.

Transcript

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[Alex Ferrari]

Welcome to the Next Level Soul Podcast where we ask the big questions about life. Why are we here? Is this all there is? What is my Soul's mission? We attempt to answer those questions and more by bringing you raw and inspiring conversations with some of the most fascinating and thought provoking guests on the planet today. I am your host, Alex Ferrari. Now, before we dive into today's conversation, I want to invite you to experience something truly transformative. Next Level Soul tv. Our spiritual streaming platform where seekers from around the world can awaken, heal and expand. We've curated a powerful collection of life changing documentaries, deep dive interviews, original series, audiobooks, courses, master classes and live events all focused on conscious, personal transformation, ancient wisdom and the soul's journey. This isn't just content, it's a calling. Or whether you're exploring your spiritual gifts, seeking answers from the beyond, or just craving something real in a noisy world. Next Level Soul TV was made just for you. And here's the best part. It's commercial, free, available around the world and growing every week with new soul expanding content. So if you're ready to go deeper, head over to NextLevelSoul TV and start streaming your awakening. Now, let's begin today's episode. Disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of this show, its host, or any of the companies they represent. Now, today on the show, we welcome Timothy Hogan, who is a Grand Master of the Knights Templar. And in this episode, Tim and I go deep down the rabbit hole about myth and legend of the Knights Templar, the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, with what really happened On Friday the 13th, what the Vatican had done and still does to the Knights Templar, and much, much, much more. Let's dive in. I'd like to welcome to the show Timothy Hogan. How you doing, Timothy?

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Great.

[Timothy Hogan]

Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here with you.

[Alex Ferrari]

Thank you so much for coming down to Next Level Soul Studios. I appreciate it, man. We were supposed to do this in Zoom. We were on Zoom. And you're like, but I'm going to be in Austin in a week or two. I'm like, why don't you just stop by? I think it'll be a lot better.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's much better. I think it's, you know, being in person, the energy is always better. And plus, I get to see your studio, which is amazing.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, I appreciate that.

[Timothy Hogan]

I love how you've decorated it, and it just. It's got the right energy to it.

[Alex Ferrari]

So appreciate you, my friend. Appreciate you. So when I first, when you first came across my path, when I heard that you were a Knights Templar.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

I'm like, what? They're still around?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

Like, how is that. Are you waving the sword? Do you have the red.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

You have the red cross on your. On your lapel.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's right. We're not doing the Crusades. You know, there's that whole, thank God we're not doing that thing.

[Alex Ferrari]

But. But how did you, you know, you're. It's a grand grandmaster.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Alex Ferrari]

Grandmaster of the Knights Templar.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

So how does one become the grand master of the Knights Templar? And how did it get to where it is right now? Because all we remember is, you know, Indiana Jones and the Grail, which we'll get into all that stuff and the historic, the Crusades and that historical thing. But how did it survive to where we're sitting right now?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. So, you know, by 1307, the order was suppressed by, well, the Roman Church, particularly Pope Clement V. Stop it.

[Alex Ferrari]

The Church did something like that?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. I mean, there was some, I think some of it was jealousy. The, the, the Order had grown in wealth and influence. It had set up the first modern banking system specifically to get power out of the hands of the monarch and the Church and back into the hands of the people, by the way. But of course this went over great with everybody except for the heads of some of the monarchies in the Church. In particular the French monarchy at the time that was looking to start some new wars and was out of money. And they saw the Templar Order as an easy means to usurp that. And so they did, they staged, they staged a roundup of Templars. Most of them, most of the Templars, I mean, they knew ahead of time that this was going to happen. This would have been one of the great mysteries of history, is because they went to round up the Templars. There should have been thousands of them in Paris at the time and there just weren't. There was maybe a few hundred and that was it. And all of their Paris hold, all the holdings that should have been in the treasury, the Templar treasury in Paris was all gone by the time they went to round them up. And the whole entire fleet of ships had disappeared.

[Alex Ferrari]

Magically.

[Timothy Hogan]

Magically, because it was known ahead of time this was going to happen. But as a result of that, the Templar Order was able to go underground and survive in different means over the centuries, changing its name. One of the things it was able to do was back in those days, we don't think about it much today. Today you could just travel wherever you want, pretty much. But back in those days, you had to have, you know, some sort of a charter from the king giving you permission to even leave the kingdom and go anywhere else. The only people that were allowed to travel freely were different workers that would work in different kingdoms, particularly stonemasons. And since the Templar Order had a whole, you know, they had ship captains, they had farmers, they had clerics, they had stonemasons. They had all of these people that were working within the Order, other than just the knights on horseback that you think of, they were able to easily and quickly shift their identity and disguise themselves as other things in order to hide and to, to travel to other kingdoms where they might have more safety.

[Alex Ferrari]

Now, when you were mentioning that they were going to be round up, isn't that, is that Friday the 13th, correct?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, it's the origin of Friday the 13th. You know, October 13th, 1307 is when that took place.

[Alex Ferrari]

And that's when they killed. They killed a whole bunch of them. And from that point on, Friday the 13th just became unlucky.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Alex Ferrari]

Definitely for the Templars. Definitely for the Templars.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

I've always wanted to ask a Templar this. Yeah, we, we kind of joked about the Crusades earlier. That is a very. That was a very tough time.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's a sensitive time.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, it was a very tough time for the Templars and, and the Crusades in general.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yes.

[Alex Ferrari]

I always wanted to ask, you know, if you follow Christ, Christ's true teachings, not the Roman Catholic stuff, but actually the true teachings. He never once said, I need you to kill anybody who does it. Whoop ass, kill anybody who does not believe you and all that stuff. How did that become what it became?

[Timothy Hogan]

That's a great question, and I'm really glad you asked it, actually. So first of all, we have to set the stage where we put ourselves in the time of the people living there.

[Alex Ferrari]

Correct.

[Timothy Hogan]

And for almost 200 years, Europeans were being attacked by basically like terrorist organizations of the day. Middle east of the day.

[Alex Ferrari]

The Moors.

[Timothy Hogan]

The Moors and everything else. I mean, the Barbary Pirates, there were different groups that were relentlessly attacking Europeans. And so people were tired of that after 200 years of that. And that's part of what led to the Crusades. Now, the Templars actually weren't involved in any of that at first. They were when the Templar Order was founded. Their only objective was they had a secret agenda and they had a public agenda. The secret agenda was they knew that if the Crusades happened, they were going to get out of hand, and that there were texts and there were artifacts and there were holy treasures that were in places like Jerusalem and other places around the Middle east. That would be the sacrifice of the Crusades, that they would. These things would be rounded up, they'd be given to the Roman Church and they would disappear because they didn't fit with the narrative that the Roman Church was trying to do at the time. So part of the reason why the Templar Order was founded was to convert, go into these areas and try to secure this stuff and hide it from the Roman Church itself to ensure it survived. These included things like apocryphal and gnostic, texts that painted a different picture of Christianity than what the Roman Church was perpetuating at the time. The outside. The official purpose of the founding of the Templar Order was to protect pilgrims on their way to the Holy Land. And it's important to realize that the Templar Order wasn't just protecting Christian pilgrims. On the way to the Holy Land, they were protecting Jewish pilgrims on the way to the Holy Land, they're protecting Muslims on their way to the Holy Land. It wasn't discriminatory. I mean, it was literally giving everybody the opportunity to worship as they chose in holy space. Very Christ like, very Christ like, you know, that was the idea. Now, later on, they ended up having to get pulled into fighting along with some of the other knighthood orders at the time. And the big knighthood order was the Knights Hospitalia at the time, which later became known as the Knights of Malta. But they were also like the Teutonic Knights. There were all kinds of different knighthood orders that were fighting the Crusades.

[Alex Ferrari]

But the Templars got a lot of press.

[Timothy Hogan]

They got a lot of press because they were good at fighting when they had it too. And they, they truly believed that, that the soul survived this body and it didn't really matter so much if you ended up dying. What mattered is what you're living for. And so in their mind, they really believe that, okay, look, if we're going to be pulled into this, you know, we can defend people. If we die defending people, there's worse things.

[Alex Ferrari]

Good death, it's a good death.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's a good death.

[Alex Ferrari]

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

You know, and at that time, though.

[Alex Ferrari]

There were still a lot of conversations about the soul and the body completely. It's not like, yeah, there's still a lot of conversations today about the soul and the body and what happens and if we have multiple lives and all that kind of stuff. But it seemed like they were very, I mean, it sounds. And not exactly like samurai.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Very similar, very honorable. It's a good death to fight. I mean, even, even the Spartans, like, it's a good death to fight.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. And they recognized your competitor as the true word of the. The true meaning of the word competition, which is calm. As with like you, you are. With the person you're fighting. The idea that they are helping you become better.

[Alex Ferrari]

That is a very spiritual way of looking at this.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, that is how they had to look at it.

[Alex Ferrari]

When did they actually start? What were the years after Christ?

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, so officially the Templar Order was started as early as 1096.

[Alex Ferrari]

Okay. So it's a while after Christ.

[Timothy Hogan]

Most historians put it at founding around.

[Alex Ferrari]

1118, but just generally around that time.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, it was around that time. Okay.

[Alex Ferrari]

So it's significantly a lot of time.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. And one of the things that will surprise most people probably on this show and anyone who looks into it, is one of the things, the spiritual doctrines that the Templar Order was perpetuating is they set up relations with these different groups all throughout Europe and they practiced something that was known as the consulamentum. And what is significant about this consulamentum is it basically means that if you receive this rite, it means you don't have to reincarnate anymore unless you choose to.

[Alex Ferrari]

So they believed in reincarnation.

[Timothy Hogan]

So they believed in reincarnation back then in the West.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Alex Ferrari]

Not the East. The east was all over that.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

That's right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. So you have to remember. So the Temple Order largely came out of a group known as the Albigensian.

[Alex Ferrari]

How old is that group?

[Timothy Hogan]

They go back even further. They probably came out of Manichaeism, which dates to around 150 to 300.

[Alex Ferrari]

Closer to Christ time.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right, Exactly.

[Alex Ferrari]

Is Christ a very central figure in the Knights Templar and all of those.

[Timothy Hogan]

All the way through, insomuch as the Templar Order and the Albigensians before them, that they came out of recognized Christ or the Christos as a universal consciousness. They saw Jesus as like their brother. So Jesus, Jesus, when Jesus was speaking as the Christ, he was speaking as the universal consciousness.

[Alex Ferrari]

So he was. So they understood Christ consciousness.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Alex Ferrari]

Which is. Or Buddha consciousness or something like that.

[Timothy Hogan]

Same thing.

[Alex Ferrari]

At a time where that was not even on the radar of most, most people at that, especially in the thousand year mark. Well, Christ is the. Is God, Christ is the Savior. Everything's. They're looking at Christ as. No, he's our brother. He's here to teach us.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's right.

[Alex Ferrari]

But when he speaks, he speaks for conscious Christ consciousness. Universal consciousness.

[Timothy Hogan]

Correct. Yeah, yeah. And otherwise he's just Jesus. And even Jesus they recognized as an esoteric name or an initiate name. Yeah. So like Yeshua, you know, there were even aspects to that name. For example, in Greek, Jesus.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's Jews.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. But if you apply gematria to it, which is the science in which letters are replaced with numbers, the sum total of that name is 888. Or 888.

[Alex Ferrari]

You mean Jesus.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Which to the Templars represented what was known as the Agoad, which was the eight sphere of consciousness that transcends our physical form. So they recognize the seven, what are known as the seven seals in Revelations, as the seven chakra. And so the opening of each seal represented the death of our old perception of the world and the awakening to a new state of universal consciousness. And so the eighth sphere then represented the Gnosis. It represented the divine experiential knowledge.

[Alex Ferrari]

Enlightenment.

[Timothy Hogan]

Enlightenment, yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

I mean, you're shocking me right now. You're like blowing my mind right now because I did not think that the Knights Templar were that spiritually evolved to the point of. You're talking about thousands of years of Eastern Christian thought, the Vedic text.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yogic philosophy.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. In fact, did they overlap?

[Alex Ferrari]

How do they.

[Timothy Hogan]

They completely overlapped. In fact, if you, if you read, there's a book that was published in the 1200s by the Templars in Spain and it was known as Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach. And in the story, it talks about how the Templars are the guardians of the Holy Grail and some other things like this, but it also refers to this sacred kingdom in India where the Grail guardians end up going to and end up. That's where they're living their life out of. And it's really what they were pointing to was this philosophy and the knowledge from India. I mean, think about, think about it. You know, one of the things that you'll see regularly in India is you'll see a three faced idol, you know.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And it represented, you know, the different aspects of Krishna and.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So. And one of the things that the Templars were accused of worshiping when they were persecuted in 1307 was a three faced idol that was referred to as Baphomet, you know, but, but it was, it's the same thing. It was the same thing. They were gaining lots of knowledge from India and Indian philosophy that matched and meshed perfectly with their version of Christian thought at the time.

[Alex Ferrari]

Now, I wanted to ask you, it's another question I've always wanted to find out about, is the cross.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

The cross on the lapel.

[Timothy Hogan]

Sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

That's a very famous cross. It's been taken by many, many different cultures and things. But the first signs of it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is Sumerian.

[Timothy Hogan]

Sumerian? Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Inside of like in engravings, on walls and tablets and things. So how did that get from the Sumerians to the Templars?

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So yeah, oftentimes in Sumer you'll see the gods known as the Anunnaki, they're wearing that same cross. And from a Templar standpoint, it's an equal armed cross, first of all. And people have associated it with lots of things, including in modern days, a photon under a microscope kind of looks like that. But to the Templar, the vertical arm always represented spiritual ascent and spirituality. The horizontal arm always represented material things, materiality. And so the combination of the two represented spiritualizing the material and materializing the spiritual. And the way you do that is through consciousness.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

The medium that unites both the physical and the spiritual is consciousness. And so it's understanding the nature of consciousness really. And by doing that, we can understand how these two extremes unite. And it was red specifically because red, it was the color of blood, but it was also the color of transformation and action within the Templar tradition throughout history.

[Alex Ferrari]

It seems like the cross, specifically the original cross, which is that has always played a part in humanity. Whether it's that cross, whether it's crisis cross, whether it's the Buddhist wheel of Dharma or the wheel of Dharma which then got mutated into the Nazis, took it and took it. Crosses seem to be a thing even in Egypt and every culture. Why is that? Why is it from your. If I don't. If you can answer this or not, but why is humanity always have that kind of cross? If is this the oldest in existence, it's like this or close to it?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yes. One of the oldest. I mean we find it in there's a culture known as the vinta that have a writing system from Eastern Europe which is the oldest that we've been able to find. We just haven't been able to translate it yet. But it's full of crosses as part of the symbolism. But even on cave art you find.

[Alex Ferrari]

The cross as a symbol.

[Timothy Hogan]

The cross is a symbol, you know, being used to represent things. So there's something inherently about it in our nature. And from a symbolic standpoint, it's come to associate with everything from.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

Obviously the things I just talked about with the materialism and the spiritual combination. But it's also you find it in representing the quadrants of north, south, east and west. It has an element of as above. So below to it. You know, I mean and it's so it's, it works very well for a lot of things.

[Alex Ferrari]

Fair enough, fair enough.

[Timothy Hogan]

The elements, the classical elements of antiquity.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Sure, of course.

[Alex Ferrari]

So we're going to go a little farther back than even Egypt with Templars. What is the Templars connection and understanding of Atlantis.

[Timothy Hogan]

Oh, yeah. So this is important. So one of the things that the Templar Order, when it was founded, specifically it was created, as I mentioned, to go find artifacts. I mean, for the first nine years the Templars were founded, when they were in Jerusalem, all they were doing was digging under the Temple Mount looking for things. And we know this because we found the tunnels and where they were digging and everything else. In fact, my great, great granduncle, Charles Warren was later on. He was the police chief in the Jack the Ripper murders. But what he's also known for was doing all this digging under the Temple Mount. In fact, if you go to Jerusalem today, you can go under the Temple Mountain, see all the places he was digging, and there's a place called Warren's Gate that's named after him. But really going far back, what the Templar Order was trying to do was they were trying to find artifacts. And they knew enough to know that there were all these different cultures in Europe initially. And then as they spread out further, that they all had flood myths, right? They're noticing that, like all these cultures that weren't connected, didn't appear to be connected, all had these same flood myths which they associated with, you know, Noah in the, in the, the Torah in the Old Testament. So they started looking for evidence of this flood and these flood myths, and they just kept coming across more and more and more. And then as they went into the Middle east, they started associating with groups like the Druze and the Sabeans and even some Christian groups that were outside of the Catholic mainframe, like the Coptic Church and others. And these people were all, not only were they perpetuating different texts about the apocryphal texts about the flood and that type of thing, but they were also translating Greek texts that had never been seen the light of day, you know, in 2,000 years, including the works of Plato. And these myths were also talking about a flood, right? And so they began to recognize that, yeah, there was probably some sort of a universal flood in antiquity. Plus, Plato is talking about this, you know, this civilization known as Atlantis. And they quickly realized they were talking about the same thing, that the flood myths of Noah were the same myths as the Atlantis myth of antiquity.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

And so the artifacts that they began to look for then were evidence of this high technology and this high spiritual philosophy from this time of Atlantis. Now, with further exploration, one of the things that, again, it's not standard history, but will become so, in my opinion, in the years ahead with the proof that's adding up is the Templars were also traveling over to the New World of the Americas hundreds of years before Columbus. Really?

[Alex Ferrari]

So where do they through. Through the same thing. Through ships or do they come up to the top?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, through ships. And they, they. And they were. They began meeting with different native tribes who had their own flood myths. They were trading silver with the Mayans down in Mexico. Mexico area, Central America area. And they. And they had their own flood myths. And not only did they have their own flood myths, but like the Nuado cultures of Mexico, they referred to their homeland as Aztlan. Well, and it had been destroyed by a flood. Well, it's not too much of a stretch to recognize that Aztlan and Aztlan tis are the same thing. Right. So the Templar, and not only that, but the Templar Order had a ritual that they performed that they still perform to this day that includes several elements to it, but one of which is the candidate is presented with a handshake, a specific handshake. And they're told that this handshake was what was given to all of the cultures in antiquity before they were separated.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

When everyone was still working together at this time, referred to as Atlantis. They had this hand grip to recognize each other by. And then they went on their different ways.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And to this day, there are several cultures that still perpetuate this secret handshake. And so when the Templars came over to the New World and they started giving this grip, it was recognized by certain cultures, including the Mayans, who still in the Hopi and the Mandan and the Mi' Kmaq and, you know, a number of different tribes, the Black Feet, they perpetuate it. So they all knew that they were perpetuating the ideas from the same root tradition. And by the way, they also shared this grip with certain groups in the Middle East. This is how the Templars were able to get around and move around and put their ship in places with no problem, at a time when certain Muslim factions were attacking everybody else, but they weren't attacking the Templars.

[Alex Ferrari]

So did they ever find any of the technology or anything, any proofs of the Atlantis?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yes. So they definitely found not only some of the philosophical ideas associated with Atlantis, but they did find technology in particular in the form of what are known as what we would refer to today as like the Ark of the Covenant was actually an Atlantean technology power source. It was a power capacitor. And we found several of these, not just in Jerusalem, by the way, but a lot of them were found in Egypt.

[Alex Ferrari]

So there's not just one.

[Timothy Hogan]

There's not just one. There were probably hundreds at one point in time.

[Alex Ferrari]

So Indiana Jones lied to us is what you're saying.

[Timothy Hogan]

It was a good approximation of the truth. Yeah, I mean, but you know, but there was. So our order has found six we know of where there's potentially four more, totaling 10. But they're in all actuality, they're probably a hundred at one point in time.

[Alex Ferrari]

So these, so these kind of. And I've heard that the ark was a power thing.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Some sort of power generator of some sort. Do you know what was inside that caused. Because I heard there's like there was the Ethiopian one.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

That got apparently took the second that documentary came out. They went in and took it because it was like four old guys.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right. Guarding it. Right, right, right.

[Alex Ferrari]

But anyone who got near it was. It's radiation poisoning.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, they have radiation type of symptoms.

[Alex Ferrari]

And things like that. So what was inside of it? Do you know?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. So what was put inside? So the ark was built with alternating layers of basically gold. And the Bible says Acacia wood, which is probably pretty accurate. Caecia has high concentrations of these platinum monoatomic elements in them.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

[Timothy Hogan]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway Cough. And cold season is coming, so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products. Now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy relief tablets or liquid gels, Halls cough drops and Mucinex fast day and night so you and your family are Armed and ready for the season ahead. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, the other thing you could put, you put in the arc is you can actually extract these and convert platinum metals into these monoatomic states. When you do that, first of all, it just appears as a white powder. Secondly, it becomes superconductive. And so when you put a super conductive substance in a super static capacitor, it just builds up a tremendous amount of electricity. You can also add a catalyst to it, like pomegranate juice or something like an acid. And it will. Yeah, it'll just work as this giant.

[Alex Ferrari]

Battery and just keeps generating.

[Timothy Hogan]

It just keeps generating itself.

[Alex Ferrari]

So free energy, essentially.

[Timothy Hogan]

Free energy, yeah. And if you put this in like a desert condition or in a tabernacle, like, like Moses did, which had wool curtains, you know, which is that all that would help to build up and generate the electricity and then it would just discharge through the top. The belief was that these things were originally put in pyramids.

[Alex Ferrari]

You mean like the pyramid?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, like the Great Pyramid. But, but other ones around the world, specifically to the pyramids, they're piezoelectric from the granite and the silicon. The granite, as they get pushed together with pressure, they generate electricity in itself. In fact, if you've ever used one of those lighter things that have the long thing that, you know.

[Alex Ferrari]

Barbecue lighter.

[Timothy Hogan]

Barbecue lighter. Most people think that there's. Oh, there must be a battery or something. It's not. It's actually piezoelectric. There's little stones in there and as they get pushed together, they produce the electricity. The little spark.

[Alex Ferrari]

The little spark.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

But it works the same way with the Great Pyramid. I mean, the big. Those heavy stones, as they're pressing against each other, they help just. That helps to produce the electricity.

[Alex Ferrari]

And in the king's chamber, there's that.

[Timothy Hogan]

The box.

[Alex Ferrari]

The box that they thought was a sarcophagus. But there's no, no writing anywhere in the Great Pyramids.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

But if you were to put one of these arcs on in that, it would just generate tremendous amount of electricity.

[Alex Ferrari]

Room, specifically, the king's chamber, specifically is designed in such a way. I mean, the sound there, the energy, incredible. It's. It's so precise.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

It could, I mean, just. It's insane to think of it as.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's right.

[Alex Ferrari]

A place of.

[Timothy Hogan]

And it used to be too, that the sarcophagus was in a different place in that king's Chamber. It was more centralized in it. They ended up moving it at one point in time. But it's all. There was just like a world grid of these different temples all over the world.

[Alex Ferrari]

The 33rd paradox.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. That had these arcs in them, and then it would just generate the electricity for the world. And it was very. You could just plug. And the other thing too is we think one of the other things we also see is, like, temples around Egypt, they have these perimeters. Kom Ombo is a good example of this for anyone who studies Egypt stuff where they have these perimeter of stones and the stones have what are called butterfly clamps between the stones. Well, those used to be filled with metal, like copper. And so you just have this, like. It's almost like a zipper of these metal holdings that went around the temple. And what that would do is that would just pick up on the electricity being broadcasted, and then you could just literally your temple could run itself, you know, off of whatever you put had in there that needed to use electricity for including healing.

[Alex Ferrari]

So. So then let me ask you, the. The six arcs that they've found, the Templars found, I assume that they seem. They seem to be a little bit more evolved spiritually and consciously to understand that you couldn't just let this fall into the wrong hands because.

[Timothy Hogan]

Correct. Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Genghis Khan, with this kind of power.

[Timothy Hogan]

Sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

Alexander, the greatest examples.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Causes problems like giving them a news.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Like you can't do that.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

So they were protectors of this technology, making sure it didn't fall in the wrong hands.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. Yeah. That was the main thing. Yeah. They didn't want it to fall into the wrong hands. They also didn't want the symbolic value of the ark or the arks to be missed. And that is, you know, if you look at how a temple is built and this is how the Templars would build temples. I mean, in fact, the Templars helped to build the cathedrals initial. The initial cathedrals, they were the ones building those of Notre Dame and such.

[Alex Ferrari]

And the St. Peter's Basilica.

[Timothy Hogan]

They didn't build St. Peter's but they did. But St. Peter's became. Was based on earlier temples that had been being built. But the science behind this building was basically like the building was a macrocosm of the human body, which was a microcosm.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So as you go into a building like a cathedral, the baptismal fonts at the area, the belly button, the choirs at the area of the lungs, the priest speaks from the area of the heart and the sacrament is kept at the period of the third eye, you know, or the. What was known as the Nazar in the ancient world. So the Ark, being a communication device with God, was placed in the sanctum sanctorum of the tabernacle.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

The holy of holies of the tabernacle. And so using the macrocosm of the building to the microcosm of the human form, the ark actually represented as the communication device with God. It represented the area of the pineal gland, or the third eye, where that ark was placed. And so symbolically speaking, it says that look where your third eye is. That's where your communication device is with God.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's implying that we are all walking temples, literally, hence why. That's right, between. That's at the area of your temple.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's why they call it the temple. That's why it's called the temple. And that each one of us, through our own divine connection, are tapped into that universal consciousness of the creator, whatever you want to call it.

[Alex Ferrari]

What I find so fascinating about our conversation so far, Tim, is that the Templars, their public fame is not what we're having a conversation about. It's generally mostly about the Crusades, about the Grail, which we're going to get into in a second. The Ark of a Covenant. I am just. I. I have so much more love now for the Templars because they seem like the. The guardians. The. They're the Jedi of their day.

[Timothy Hogan]

They were.

[Alex Ferrari]

They essentially were the Jedi of their day. They were defending honor. They were protecting. They, you know, and they. Yeah, they got pulled into the Crusades a bit because they're like.

[Timothy Hogan]

Ah. Because everyone was pulled into them.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah. At a certain point, like, either you come in with us or we're gonna attack.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right, exactly.

[Timothy Hogan]

Essentially.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

But. But what you're talking about is these. Your. The order seems to be. And it's still even like a Jedi Order. It's called. An Order has this. This real deep connection to ideas that we're now truly exploring as a society.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

As. As our society. Ancient stuff. I mean, like we said, we're talking about six, 8,000 years, maybe even older.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Ideas which are now starting to bubble up into these kind of conversations that are publicly put out in the world where. 15 years ago. Yeah, not so much.

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, as soon as the, you know, as soon as we had the Internet where we could start talking, talking with people on other sides of the globe, you know, and sharing ideas and recognizing like.

[Alex Ferrari]

Wait a minute.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, there's. Wait, we have a lot more. I mean, it used to be, right. The best way you could figure out what other cultures were doing is you took what, a pilgrimage.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

When you took a pilgrimage, allowed you to see that, like there are other cultures and other people out there that are practicing and doing the same thing that you're doing. It may be labeled differently, but it's. I mean, when a Christian from Europe who was practicing baptism first went to India and saw a bunch of people bathing in the Ganges River.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

As a sacred form of cleansing, it's like, oh, it's baptism.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's just, it's just under a different name, under a different religion, but it's the same thing. And that's part of what a pilgrimage allowed you to do. And that's what the, the Templars were protecting was pilgrims.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

So they could go and enjoy and grow their understanding of the world.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's exactly right.

[Alex Ferrari]

And that's, I think one of the biggest problems we have here in America specifically, that most don't ever leave the country.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. Completely.

[Alex Ferrari]

That they, they are just so stuck in. And you know, I love America. I love being here. It's wonderful. But when you go out of the country. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway Cough. And cold season is coming, so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy Relief tablets or Liquid Gels, Hulls Cough drops and Mucinex Fast, day and night. So you and your family are armed and ready for the season ahead. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show. And you go to Europe and you go to other areas of the world, you start seeing things.

[Timothy Hogan]

You're like, oh, that's exactly right.

[Alex Ferrari]

This is different. Oh, oh, the food's a bit different. Oh, this. And now, you know, we're in. America's a melting pot. So we had a lot of these cultures come here.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

But when you go out to these other worlds and you start walking at the same places, you read about, for sure, you know, and you're like, oh, wow, this is different. It really does open you and educate you in a way that a university can.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's true.

[Alex Ferrari]

Can't. And a book can't.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. And you may even come across things. I. I have a. It's so interesting. In my travels, I've encountered certain cultures that just aren't written about, Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, yeah, the Western world.

[Timothy Hogan]

So, like, you encounter them, you get to know them, you get to know their philosophies and so on and so forth. And then, you know, I came back to the US and I started writing about them and it was like, now we live in a world where they're trying to even censor what's going on digitally. They're trying online, they're trying. So, like, you know, I'll get fact checked on this group that nobody knows about, you know, like. Because it hasn't been written about in the Western world and, like, in. In a large amount, you know, so. So it's a very interesting time, you know, it is.

[Alex Ferrari]

I think trying to do that is very difficult on the Internet. It's just. It's right on both sides.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's an echo chamber.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Try to try and erase. Trying to erase anything off the Internet is like trying to take the eggs.

[Timothy Hogan]

Out of a cake. Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Like, it just.

[Timothy Hogan]

Even with the Templar stuff, I can reveal documents from the 1200s that talk about, like, the consulamentum, for example, and the Internet will want to argue with me on, well, no, that's not true, because this is the box we want to keep the Templars in, you know, where. Where they're just Roman Catholic guardians, you know, and it's like, they never really were.

[Alex Ferrari]

So, yeah, it sounds like Roman. The Roman Catholics and the Templars didn't really see eye to eye.

[Timothy Hogan]

No, I mean, they had. They were. They. They received Roman Catholic patronage for a while in Exchange for the Templars would answer to the Pope and protection. And protection. They would protect Roman Catholics and they, you know, they would, the Templars would come back and they help to do things like build cathedrals and such, you know, for the template for the Roman Catholics. But it wasn't like, so like the Internet will tell you. When the Templar Order was suppressed by the Roman Catholic Church, well then that was the end of the Templar Order because the Roman Catholic power structure. Power structure was the all dominant thing of the day. And there's no way you could exist without that, you know, which just isn't the truth. You know, it's just, just not the truth.

[Alex Ferrari]

So being a recovering Catholic myself.

[Timothy Hogan]

Fair enough.

[Alex Ferrari]

I understand completely that that whole world and on the show we talk a lot about that, that, that entity specifically.

[Timothy Hogan]

Sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

Power structure and what it did and how it continues to do continues in many, many.

[Timothy Hogan]

Largest land owner in the world.

[Alex Ferrari]

Largest landowner in the world. So much money. So much money. That's not even funny. And even though, you know, and I, and I'd love to hear your thoughts though. At a certain point in time, even in our lifetime.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

The Roman Catholic Church was an important impenetrable monolith completely. Today though, it's different.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's, it's.

[Alex Ferrari]

There's cracks, there's cracks now and people are not buying. Yeah, they're not buying what they're selling anymore.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, yeah. And that's not to say, and I'll tell you, like, from a Templar perspective, we have Roman Catholic members who join all the time. No problem. We have no problem.

[Alex Ferrari]

Absolutely.

[Timothy Hogan]

Because we recognize that the seed of God, what we call the sacred flame.

[Alex Ferrari]

Is within everybody and every culture and every religion.

[Timothy Hogan]

Every culture, every religion, sure. So we have no problem. We have no problem with Roman Catholicism and Roman Catholicism has done a lot of charity and good for the world.

[Alex Ferrari]

Absolutely.

[Timothy Hogan]

And that shouldn't be thrown out. And they continue to do great work. The thing that's changing is that people are less likely to just be coming from a place where they just worship these things outside of themselves and follow these rules. Rules that are being given to them.

[Alex Ferrari]

Through random people without real contemplation.

[Timothy Hogan]

Without real contemplation. Yes, exactly. And you see that not only within Christianity but with all the religions. I mean, you see that within Buddhism. You see that within Islam. I mean, like Islam, for example, has, you know, it has the Quran which was given to the Prophet Muhammad through revelation, divine revelation. But then you have all these other things called hadiths which were the supposed Saying of Muhammad, peace be upon him. But who, you know, they were created by his generals after he was dead. And if he had actually said everything that is said in all of the hadith, Muhammad would have had to have lived, you know, 100 years longer than he actually did. So we know these were created by people trying to impose power, you know, their power and control on others.

[Alex Ferrari]

And same script, different movie.

[Timothy Hogan]

Same same script, different movies. So this happens everywhere and it falls upon each person to be able to. To look within themselves and determine what resonates with them and why. And is it, Is it kind of.

[Alex Ferrari]

Is it hurting someone?

[Timothy Hogan]

Is it hurting someone else?

[Alex Ferrari]

Is it fear based?

[Timothy Hogan]

Is it fear based? Exactly. And. And you have to sort those things out for yourself. My opinion.

[Alex Ferrari]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Now I want to go down the road of the Grail.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

The Grail is one of the most famous artifacts in the world.

[Timothy Hogan]

Sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

A Templar made a cameo in last Crusade.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yep, that's right.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's right.

[Alex Ferrari]

And the Holy Grail, which is the cup of Christ at the Last supper, from my understanding. Okay, that's.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's one of the interpretations one.

[Alex Ferrari]

Exactly. That's why I'm to my understanding. So again, I'm a filmmaker, so I'm sure pull most of my knowledge for movies.

[Timothy Hogan]

All good.

[Alex Ferrari]

So what is from the Templars point of view, what was the Grail? What was their, what was their part in the Grail legend, the Grail myth, protecting the grail, hiding the grill, all of that. So let's go down the grill.

[Timothy Hogan]

Okay, I'll tell you. So the first, the first place in history where the word grail shows up is an ancient Sumer. And it was referred to as Graal. And it was GRA Al. And this name for Graal was associated with the alchemical science of ancient Sumer. And I say alchemical science. Alchemy, the word alchemy actually comes from Alkem, which was ancient name for Egypt. Kemet was. But it was alchemy was the science of transmutation. So how do you take something of lesser value and transmute it into something of greater value? And you know, that was the science of alchemy, of transmutation. The name of that in ancient Sumer was Graaling.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Okay.

[Timothy Hogan]

So that's the earliest origin of that name. By the Middle ages of Europe, European Middle Ages. So, you know, 1100s, 1200s, the grail was still being associated on some level with transmutation. The midst of the Grail story is that there's this, there's this king who's in charge of the grail, he ends up running off and leading a charge in the name of love. But it, but it was not love. It was, it was really lust.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

And he ends up, he ends up getting wounded in his, some, some legends say it's his thigh, others say it was basically his genitals. But he ends up, he ends up getting wounded and as a result he gets very sick. The legends say that he can't, he can't sit, but he can't stand. He's, he's alive, but he's hardly alive. But he's also not dead. You know, he's, he's, he's in this torn between the stated dualities. By the way, he's known as the Fisher King is the name of him.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Great movie.

[Timothy Hogan]

Which is.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

But it's really, it's alluding to the age of Pisces, which is torn between dualities, right? Everything's black and white, good or evil. There's no middle ground. So according to These myths, the Fisher King can only be healed through the Holy Grail. And even though he was in charge of the Grail, because he had led this charge in lust and not in true love, he is now being denied the very thing that he is supposed to that could heal him. And it requires someone else to find that Grail and administer it to the Fisher King in order to heal him. And there's an as above, so below relationship between the king and the land, because as he gets sick, the land also gets sick.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So crops start, stop growing, disease and famine starts to spread across the planet. And so everyone's pretty miserable. And so this is the whole reason why the knights have to go on this quest to find the Grail so they can heal the Fisher King, to therefore heal the land that's suffering. And so that's the legend as far as King Arthur goes.

[Alex Ferrari]

But, but is the Grail in this legend associated to Christ or. No?

[Timothy Hogan]

It is, sorta. So it's, it's, it's. It says that the, the Templars specifically are the guardians of this Grail and that it is associated with the blood of Jesus.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Now, when we say the blood of Jesus, this is even more complicated because in the Middle Ages, the blood of Christ represented not only Jesus's blood, but it also represented an alchemical substance that was, could be extracted out of nature, which had these healing properties. And it just so happens that the same elixir, if you will, was described in ancient myths of ancient Sumer of ancient Egypt. In ancient Egypt, it was known as the blood of Osiris. But it was the same thing, same script, different. Same script, different movie, you know, and even the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is one of the earliest flood myths Right. On the planet.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's the earliest story that they have.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct, Correct.

[Timothy Hogan]

But what is Gilgamesh? You know, what's he trying to do in this story? He's trying to find this elixir of immortality.

[Alex Ferrari]

Fountain of Youth.

[Timothy Hogan]

Right, Fountain of Youth. So this was, it was the same thing. It was just applied to, you know, this thing called the Grail later on.

[Alex Ferrari]

And it is a cup.

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, that's the thing. It's sometimes depicted as a cup, sometimes it's depicted as a, as a bowl, sometimes it's depicted as a emerald, sometimes it's depicted as a emerald cup.

[Alex Ferrari]

So when, at what point in history did the Catholics, I'm assuming, yeah. Pick up this story and say, no, this was actually the cup of Christ at the Last Supper, and that's what this is at what point did that myth or that story get taken over?

[Timothy Hogan]

So right around the. By some estimates, you know, right around a thousand years after Christ.

[Alex Ferrari]

So it's around when you guys were being formed.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Timothy Hogan]

Because there was. There were earlier Celtic myths as well. Talking about a sacred cauldron.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, more.

[Timothy Hogan]

The Druid and more Druid stuff. Yeah. And then. And then. And then sometimes it's even depicted as a head, this human head, like a severed head. So hence it became associated with John the Baptist's head, you know, in certain myths as well. So. And all these things have symbolic meaning behind them that all point to what it really is.

[Alex Ferrari]

But it just seems like throughout history.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

There's a group somewhere. It doesn't have to be the Catholics, but just in general. There's always a group that picks up on a storyline.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

And goes.

[Timothy Hogan]

Runs with it.

[Alex Ferrari]

And we're like, you know, we're gonna take a. Take that.

[Timothy Hogan]

And we're gonna totally.

[Alex Ferrari]

And go with this. Because the only Grail that I know of. And of course, it probably has a lot to do with Indiana Jones.

[Timothy Hogan]

Sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because that's in the Zeitgeist. I mean, the Grail is right behind you, by the way. I don't know if you noticed that or not. That's the grill right behind you. So that is the idea that most people in the west have. That's. Oh, it's the cup of Christ.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's a receptacle that contains the blood of Christ.

[Alex Ferrari]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

But you have to ask yourselves, well, what's the blood? Well, first of all, what's Christ? From a Templar perspective, Christ is a universal consciousness.

[Alex Ferrari]

And the man.

[Timothy Hogan]

So what's the blood of the universal consciousness? What's the life force of the universal consciousness? And this is where the real mystery is. What is the connecting point between the universal consciousness of the Creator and our individual consciousness? And it's when you get to that point, that meeting point between where the individual consciousness stops and the universal consciousness begins, that's the secret of the Grail. That's the point where when you partake of that, you know, you're opening yourself up to enlightenment or gnosis.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And so that was the real mystery of what was behind it. And they recognized that there were certain alchemical substances that could be created that helped to open your mind to that. You know, I wouldn't. Some would say, you know, this is where you're getting into some, you know, psychedelic type of stuff, you know, But, I mean, or. But even, like. Like, for example, someone takes DMT or.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, so you're talking about. So this alchemical idea, it could either, it could be psychedelics, it could be dmt, it could be toads, it could be mushrooms.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, if you, if you take that and you opens your perception to the other side. The other side in this higher universal consciousness, that could also be the Grail.

[Alex Ferrari]

In the Grail.

[Timothy Hogan]

Correct.

[Alex Ferrari]

So these stories of the Templars moving the Grail and protecting the Grail throughout history, how is that?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, so, so that then, then it gets tied into the fact that there's also a belief, a knowledge within the Templar tradition that the temple tradition is passed down, that not only was there a great prophet who we now recognize as Jesus and that he was a person just like any one of us, but he had access to this greater secrets of universal consciousness. But he was also, according to Templar tradition, he was also married to Mary Magdalene, who herself was a great initiate. And according to Templar tradition, she was actually married to John the Baptist, who was meant to be the original Messiah figure, the dude. But he died before he could complete that mission. So Jesus took the mission over from him. And that there are certain family lineages that came out of that who have protected that philosophy over the centuries. And that that philosophy was not always in line with what the power structures, philosophies were at the time.

[Alex Ferrari]

Generally always is never aligned with the power structure.

[Timothy Hogan]

Exactly.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because truth never generally leans on where the power structure.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, so, so plus places a different emphasis on some of the, the meanings of the sacred texts.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

I mean if you, if, for example, if you believe in reincarnation based on, and you could back it up with things you're reading in the New Testament. Well that's going to be very different than what the, the standard Christian power structure is of what they're saying the interpretation is.

[Alex Ferrari]

I mean you could actually, in the Bible there is still remnants of reincarnation. A couple things here.

[Timothy Hogan]

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean there's a great passage where the disciples go to Jesus and they say, Jesus, the people are saying the prophet Elias has come back. And Jesus says, well, he has come back. It's just not everybody's recognized him yet. And it says. And then the disciples understood he was talking about John the Baptist. Well, we know who John the Baptist's parents were. So if John the Baptist is the prophet Elias who's come back, the only way he could be coming back is through reincarnation.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

So when you said that Jesus is married in other shows, it might be a shock. We've spoken about this a lot of times. But I'm fascinated that the Templars have that same belief system. So now it's another chip on that side of the story because I've heard that from the east for sure, the Hindus, of course, the Tibetans.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yes.

[Alex Ferrari]

Have a long history of Jesus actually was married.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's right.

[Alex Ferrari]

And I'd love to ask you this and tell me if I'm what the Templars think, that he actually didn't die.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct. Yeah.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. He survived the Crucifixion and he went.

[Alex Ferrari]

On to live and he went on, had kids. 100%, moved over to India, in fact.

[Timothy Hogan]

100%. In fact. If you go to Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland, which was built by the Templars.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats. Now through October 7th, you can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, raw sugar, milk, chocolate, caramel, Jack O Lanterns, Brock's Candy Corn Charms, Mini pops and more. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

And you go and you look at the crucifixion that's found near the front of the sanctum area of the chapel. Go and look behind it. You'll see a guy on a ladder who's actually untying Jesus to let him down so he could walk away, but.

[Alex Ferrari]

He was tied not Nailed.

[Timothy Hogan]

He was tied, not nailed. The symbolism of the nail comes in from. In Hebrew, the Hebrew letter vow means nail, and it has a numeric value of six.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And the word, the letter that represents a cross in Hebrew is tao, which is the tav, which is the last letter of the Hebrew Alphabet. Well, tav means cross. Okay. And tav is made up of three of the Hebrew letter vow. So at the end of the Hebrew Alphabet, you have a cross and three nails, symbolically.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And each one of those vowels, which means nail, has a numeric value of 6. So 6, 6.

[Alex Ferrari]

6. The mark of the beast.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Which has nothing to do with the devil in the ancient world. Had everything to do with transformation.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, there was no devil in the Torah.

[Timothy Hogan]

There's no.

[Alex Ferrari]

There's no hell.

[Timothy Hogan]

There's no hell, there's no devil. Yeah. It represented 666. Represented transformation. That was it. And so the fact that you find that in the Hebrew Aleph, bet, or Alphabet, suggests that there's a symbolic language that was going on that was being passed down by what we would say would be the initiates of that tradition, the families of that tradition. And that philosophy is still passed down. So what matters about the bloodline is not so much that, oh, Jesus and Mary Magdalene had magical powers, and they're passing on their magical powers through some sacred bloodline. Had nothing to do with that. Had to do with the fact that their bloodline was passing down. A different interpretation of these sacred texts than what is being perpetuated by the establishment.

[Alex Ferrari]

Now, Mary Magdalene, she's such an interesting figure in history because the powers that be could not have a female with the kind of powers or enlightenment or, you know, being an avatar, ascended master. That can't happen.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because if we did that, then there have to be female priests, and we can't do that, all that kind of stuff. So we can't do any of that. So she's literally thrown out as the whore.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right, right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Of the town, and she just happens to hang around because she could. They couldn't get rid of her completely because she was too much in the historical text.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's right.

[Alex Ferrari]

So they like, okay, let's just change her character.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because generally speaking, a man, a Jew, like Jesus, sure, at that time period, would be married.

[Timothy Hogan]

They'd have to be married.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because he was a preacher. So he had to. Part of that culture.

[Timothy Hogan]

And not only that, but you have to remember, too, that in that region, at the time you had Jerusalem, which was largely. There were traditional Jewish elements there.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

That were practicing, which we know historically, but just outside of that, I mean, like you're Talking less than 100 miles away, you have groups like the Canaanites that were, they were really the descendants of the Phoenicians. And the Canaanites had their own tradition that was 99% the same as the Jewish tradition, only it had that 1% or that 2% difference that made them unique in their own thing. And part of what is included in that is the Canaanites, they did have female priests. They were allowed to have female priests. So it wouldn't have been unusual at all for someone like Mary Magdalene to have come out of that tradition. And Jesus, by the way. And then by the time they go to Jerusalem, you have the Jewish priests, like amazed. Here's this guy Jesus, who they've never encountered before, who knew all their mysteries, even though he didn't grow up with them. Well, of course he would because he learned it all on the Phoenician side, the Canaanite side, where it wasn't an issue at all. And by the way, both those traditions came out of the Egyptian tradition, the mystery schools of Egypt. So of course they're going to have similarities and of course they're going to be. All you have to do, all you have to do from a, from a linguistic standpoint is look at the Egyptian hieroglyphs for each letter of the Alphabet, right? Then look at the. Compare it to the Phoenician and you'll see that the Phoenician is just a, like a shorthand version of the Egyptian hieroglyphs. And then compare the Phoenician to the Hebrew and you could see the Hebrew came out of it, right? So there's an exact correlation between the ancient Egyptian and the Hebrew via the Canaanite or the Phoenician. And so they, I am sure that Jesus and Mary Magdalene and even John the Baptist probably had been schooled in that Phoenician Canaanite tradition, which was just so similar to the Jewish that it.

[Alex Ferrari]

Was just a little bit off.

[Timothy Hogan]

But it's just enough, you know what I mean? It's like the difference between human and a chimpanzee. 2%.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's a very interesting.

[Timothy Hogan]

A huge 2%.

[Alex Ferrari]

You know, still a 2% right now, going back, because John the Baptist is also a very interesting character. I really haven't spoken a lot about John the Baptist, but in this show. But from the Templar's point of view, what did, what was the position of John the Baptist in this narrative of Jesus of Mary Magdalene was he, you know, essentially kind of like as an avatar or prophet?

[Timothy Hogan]

He was, yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because even in the Christian, John the Baptist is still John the Baptist.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

But he's also John the Baptist at the same time.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's very interesting. Well, you know, even Jesus said, of men born of women, none is greater than John the Baptist. So he's including himself in that. In that description.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

When he says that from a Templar standpoint, John the Baptist was meant to be the leader of that whole thing that became Christianity because he was killed early.

[Alex Ferrari]

And why was he killed again?

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, he was. So basically there was a woman by the name of Solon who had solemnly. But she had wanted him. It's. It's implied that. That she wanted to sleep with him and he wouldn't do it. And so she demanded his head.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

And how.

[Alex Ferrari]

Power. She was that powerful.

[Timothy Hogan]

She was that powerful. And. And she. So she got it, you know, he had his head cut off for her.

[Alex Ferrari]

You know, it's a telenovela, essentially, basically. Well, the Antiquity is a telenovela, right?

[Timothy Hogan]

For sure, completely. That's a general statement. Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

And did. And from the Templars point of view, did Mary Magdalene also have power?

[Timothy Hogan]

Like very powerful? She was very powerful. Wealthy woman.

[Alex Ferrari]

Wealthy's another thing.

[Timothy Hogan]

I mean, the name Magdala or Magdal basically means tower. It implied that she had this property where she had a giant tower, you know, and that was really where she got her name from, in that she was the one financially supporting John the Baptist initially, and she was married to him and had children with him, according to the Templar tradition. And then when he was killed, Jesus was like second in command. And so he took over the role of John the Baptist. And as a result, Mary Magdalene also started supporting him. And then they ended up getting married, too. And really the wedding of Cana. Cana. Canaanite, right, was really the wedding between Mary Magdalene and Jesus. And this is why Jesus mother was the one who ordered him to go get more wine.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Because she would have been the host of the wedding.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So. But not only that, but more. So there was a.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Timothy Hogan]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats now through October 7th. You can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers Miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, Raw Sugar, Milk Chocolate, Caramel, Jack O Lanterns, Brock's Candy Corn Charms, Mini Pops, and more. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

There was a historical, physical aspect to these stories, but then there was also a mythological, symbolic aspect to it. So the wedding of Cana represented not only Jesus and Mary Magdalene getting married, but Jesus and Mary Magdalene symbolically represented something else. And this is from a mythological standpoint. Jesus represented the Christos, the universal consciousness. Mary Magdalene represented the Sophia, which was the goddess of wisdom.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Who was the consort of the Christos and who represented the human soul. And the idea that the human soul, as it goes through its incarnation, as it incarnates here on this planet, it gets lost in the dualities. It gets lost in the. Everything appears as separate.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And in pieces and separate from ourselves and how we have to work through that. And eventually the universal soul weds with the universal consciousness.

[Alex Ferrari]

So she is. So is this in the which tradition?

[Timothy Hogan]

This would be the Gnostic tradition.

[Alex Ferrari]

And the Gnostic tradition, yeah.

[Timothy Hogan]

And so the idea is she represents that wisdom that that human soul that has to go through that, in a sense, becomes a prostitute.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

It has to copulate with everything.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

To understand it and to recognize that what it is is something bigger than all that before it can unite with the universal consciousness and bring it all back into oneness.

[Alex Ferrari]

So she was essentially almost a great yogi as well.

[Timothy Hogan]

She was, yeah. She would. It's depicted based on the things she does with Jesus. It's assumed she was probably a high priestess of the Egyptian tradition because she anoints him with his. With her hair, which is something that the, The. The priestesses of Egypt would do. They would. They would actually anoint the pharaoh with crocodile fat and would. And. And frankincense. Golden myrrh.

[Alex Ferrari]

That sounds familiar.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Timothy Hogan]

I mean, in fact, that's why. That's the reason why the pharaohs were buried with those things. But it was a. They all had symbolic value. And, but it was based on this idea that in the story of Sophia, Sophia, this is what she does. She comes to the world, she gets lost in it. Eventually she finds her way back to the universal consciousness of the Christos and she weds it. And that's that. That point where the universal. That's the Grail. That's the point where the universal consciousness unites with the individual consciousness. And. And that's where enlightenment is achieved or gnosis is achieved. And so we find that in the story of Sophia in the Christos, which is being emulated in the story of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. And so the wedding of. Of Cana really represents our own individual soul wedding with the universal consciousness.

[Alex Ferrari]

When does. From the Templar's point of view, when does Christ. I always joke, like, he's 12 years old last time we see him, yada, yada, yada. He comes in on a donkey. I'm very interested in yada, yada.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

From the Templar's point of view, when does he.

[Timothy Hogan]

Where was Jesus?

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, yeah, and from my understanding, he went. He studied in Egypt in the Mystery School. He studied in Tibet, India heavily as well.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Wherever he went, he got kicked out. Because he's a troublemaker, because he's calling all the, all the, the priests of the area. At first they're like, oh, this guy is cool. Wait a minute. They're like, no, no, no, he's a troublemaker.

[Timothy Hogan]

Calling him out on their hypocrisy. Exactly.

[Alex Ferrari]

But he learned from wherever he went and then eventually brought back. Is that what the Templars believe as well?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yes, absolutely. We know, at least according to Templar records, which came from other cultures, records that he definitely studied in Egypt. In fact, we even acknowledge he was initiated in the Great Pyramid itself, which is during a ceremony that the Temple Order continues to do to this day. And that the Egyptian civilization was in pretty close contact with the Indian civilization and they were practicing similar ideas. I mean, there's a reason why, for example, in the Vedic tradition that you find in India, you find emphasis on things like Rama, for example, and the kingdom of Rama.

[Alex Ferrari]

What is Rama?

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, so Rama was a Great leader in the Vedic tradition who was perpetuating the spiritual ideas of what was to become the entire Vedic system.

[Alex Ferrari]

And how old. That goes back thousands.

[Timothy Hogan]

Thousands pre Egypt. Correct, correct. But at the same time in Egypt you find the God Ra and Maat, which were what established universal order and power within Egypt. You know, same idea, same names, same script.

[Alex Ferrari]

Different.

[Timothy Hogan]

Same script, different movie.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So there was a lot of that crossover. So there wasn't a problem between. And so really all that early Christianity was. And early Judaism for that matter. I mean, Abraham or Abram. So in the Old Testament, Abram became Abraham Right. After he was initiated by Melchizedek. Well, and he had his, his sister wife Sarah. Right, well that just comes from. Probably comes from Abraham or Abram. Probably comes from Brahma.

[Alex Ferrari]

Brahma, right. Not a stretch.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And sister white Saravita.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Which is, it's just, it's just transferred over into a new, new vehicle.

[Alex Ferrari]

I mean if you look at Buddha's. Look at Buddha's life, there's a lot of early parts of his life that, that can translate Right. Into Jesus's myth.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yes.

[Alex Ferrari]

Or if you will.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

And that was hundreds of years. Yeah, hundreds of years before.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

In the, in the mythos that was created, it seems like there's so much proof outside of the narrative that we've all been sold.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Like in the Templars. I mean, look, Templar, Templar. Ancient artifacts and ancient text. I mean we're not talking about 100 years ago. I mean we're talking about.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

A long time ago. So it's, it's as significant as any, any, any text in antiquity.

[Timothy Hogan]

Sure.

[Alex Ferrari]

But yet the narrative that has been continuously perpetrated is what we hear now.

[Timothy Hogan]

Correct.

[Alex Ferrari]

But I think that is changing. People are starting to discover the Gnostics. Yeah, there was the Gnostics, the Templars and other stories that are going. Well, wait a minute, maybe there's a.

[Timothy Hogan]

Little more to it.

[Alex Ferrari]

There's a little bit more than what they told us to.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Which I think is one of the reasons why there's so many people who are having trouble believing anything thing anymore.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's true. It's true. Well, and I think, I think part of it, what it comes down to is people have received conditioning, of course, programming, growing up, programming another, another name for brainwashing, you know, of, of a, of a, of a certain way of looking at things, A certain way of looking at these texts and a certain way of looking at these rituals that have been passed down through whatever religious establishment they're raised in from a Templar perspective, we recognize that is all cultural, tied into places and territories, but that the real essence of it transcends all that and that there's usually a deeper meaning going on there and it was usually a deeper thing that was implied when it was set up. That's just kind of being lost now.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats now through October 7th. You can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers Miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, Raw Sugar, Milk Chocolate, Caramel, Jack O Lanterns, Brock's Candy Corn Charms, Mini Pops and more. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

And that actually these different religions have more in common with each other than they realize.

[Alex Ferrari]

Correct.

[Timothy Hogan]

And that the myths and that the symbolism behind them tell a deeper story. I mean, let me give you an example. So we talked about revelations earlier. We talked about the seven seals.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

Or the seven chakra of the Eastern tradition to bring that back even further. Within the Eastern tradition, each of the chakra have a certain number of petals.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

And so the total number of petals from the first chakra to the sixth chakra. 144.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

The last chakra, which is the Thousand Petal chakra.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

The crown chakra. If you times that last seventh chakra towards the other seven, you get a total of 144,000. Well, this is really why in Revelations it talks about 144,000 are saved.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's alluding to the number of petals or the extensions out of each chakra. That's not how people in the Western world are used to looking at it. They look at it as, oh, it's 144,000 people. No, it's talking about 144,000 possibilities, you know, that came out of those seven chakra. And to re emphasize that even further in the, the Western alchemical tradition, one of the things that you learn how to produce within the, the alchemy, the science of alchemy is you produce a substance that's known as mana.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And this mana is what was said to be the, the powerhouse behind any elixir. It was the. In, in the Bible it was talks referred to as manna from heaven or it was considered the sacred bread. It was the origin of the bread and the communion. It was the buddy. But you find it in ancient Egypt as well, being being alluded to of what goes in their arks.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And this mana is, it was also called the white stone and it was given to he who overcometh. In fact, in Revelations it says to he who overcometh will be given the hidden mana and the sacred white stone. Well, in the Eastern traditions they have the same thing. It's just referred to as mani.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So instead of mana, it's mani, but it's the same thing. And so when, when in Tibetan mantra when you, when you say Om Mani, Padme hum Om is the word of creation. Mani is the precious white stone of illumination. Padmi is the, the crown lotus opening up and whom is the completion?

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So saying the same thing to who he overcometh is given the, the Mani stone.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

The, the Chinchimani is another name for it, but it's the same thing as the manna. You know, it's just we're not used to looking at it that way.

[Alex Ferrari]

So you mentioned Abraham and I know very little about Abraham. So I'm just going to ask you a simple question from the Templar's point of view. I've heard of the Abrahamic Accord, Judaism, Christianity, Islam.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

How is that connection made? Because those three are. Two are somewhat close.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

There's another one that's very far off and there's many wars between all of.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Them at this point in the game.

[Alex Ferrari]

How did one man, you know, support or create or help create these three, three of the major religions on the planet?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. Well, they're based on the idea that. So when. When Abraham. So when Abram was initiated by Melchizedek, he then became. Abraham was the king of priests, the. The king of peace from Salem.

[Alex Ferrari]

And what years are we talking about here? Well, we're talking pre Christ, obviously.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Pre Christ, But.

[Timothy Hogan]

But after Noah, shall we say?

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, because Noah was way, way, way back.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right back.

[Alex Ferrari]

So we're talking about probably a thousand. A thousand years before.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, about a thousand years before Christ, according to the standard.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because there's no. Judy, is there Judaism at that point?

[Timothy Hogan]

There is.

[Alex Ferrari]

There's no Judaism. There's no Christianity.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Pre.

[Timothy Hogan]

Pre Judaism.

[Alex Ferrari]

This is all of that.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

All right, right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So years before all that. So. But the idea is that, of course, the story is that Abraham went to sacrifice his son Isaac. He ended up sacrificing a ram instead, which just symbolically represented the end of the Age of Aries, which was the ram, you know, so you had to symbolically sacrifice the Age of Aries in order to come into the next age, just like Moses had to. Had to burn the golden calf, which represented the age of Taurus in order to bring about the age of Aries.

[Alex Ferrari]

Is the age of Christ and all of these religions. Pisces.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Christ.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. So Christianity started right at the beginning of the Age of Pisces.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now we're. And we're going into the Age of Aquarius.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Aquarius, right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Which is the chalice bearer, the grail.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

We're going towards better consciousness, higher consciousness, which makes sense.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And this is why even in Christianity, it talks about how Jesus says, for the Last Supper, he says, look for the person carrying the water jug and follow them into that house. While a house was the name of a zodiacal age. And so that represented the water bearer, the chalice bearer, the vase bearer was the Age of Aquarius or is the Age of Aquarius that we're going into. So each age has these symbolic elements to it.

[Alex Ferrari]

So back to Abraham.

[Timothy Hogan]

So back to Abraham. So Abraham, he's sacrificed. You know, he sacrifices the. The ram, ending the Age of Aries symbolically. So. But out of him and out of his sons, basically came all three faiths of specifically Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And so the whole reason why these peace projects like the Abrahamic Accords and things of that nature, it's basically saying, okay, what's the origin of these three religions and how do we get them to get along? I like to say that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are like three teenage girls showing up to high school wearing the same dress.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

I mean, they're so similar, but they're gonna fight like hell against each other over it. Dare you, Dare you wear my dress? You know, I mean, I mean they just call it different names, but it's the same, it's the same stuff, you know.

[Alex Ferrari]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And so in. And Islam will take even a step further. They refer to the Koran, talks about the people, what's referred to as the people of the book. And these are the people that are accepted in God's eyes. Problem is it includes Jews, Christians, Muslims and Sabians.

[Alex Ferrari]

What are Sabians?

[Timothy Hogan]

So Sabeans. This is great. So the Sabeans originally were a group that was found in Haran, which is more northern Turkey. And they, they worshiped the God Hermes as here are we talking about here we're talking as late as around 500 of our, of our current era.

[Alex Ferrari]

Wow.

[Timothy Hogan]

And so what happened is when the Muslims came across the Sabians, they were like, you know, when Muhammad came across the Sabians and they were worshiping the God Hermes, he basically said, well, excuse me, he said, well, we can't have you worshiping a pagan God, so change his names to Idris and we're all good. So, so the, so the Sabians were like, cool, we're worshiping Idris now and which was Hermes. And so they were accepted. So. But it suggests that hermetic Hermes and Hermetic writings were considered part of that tradition because that's what who Idris really was was Hermes. And that's also why.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

Interestingly, if we look at like the Najemundi Library, which were the apocryphal texts found in egyp, these clay jars, not unlike the Dead Sea Scrolls, we found a bunch of Old Testament writings, we found New Testament writings and we also found Hermetic writings in there.

[Alex Ferrari]

The New Testaments were non Paul or were Paul.

[Timothy Hogan]

They were. No, they were non Paul. There were no Paul letters in those.

[Alex Ferrari]

So that was a little cleaner, a little bit closer to the source.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, the Templars. So from a Templar perspective with Paul, they actually looked at him as a potential Gnostic, but who then later got. He was on his road to Damascus, he was taken up to the third heaven where he experienced Christ as a vision of light. Well, what's the third heaven? Most both Roman Catholics, they don't know there's just heaven. What are you talking about, third heaven? Well, from a Gnostic standpoint, third heaven was like the third level of initiation. So they had. It made total sense to them. But what happened was there was a bishop by the name of Irenaeus who wrote a book called against the Heresies. And it was a book written by the Roman Church designed to specifically persecute Gnostics, which was deemed as a competing religion. So they turned Paul, you know, Paul, which they viewed as a Gnostic, they tried to turn him into. Rewrite his character, so to speak, and turn him into more in line with Roman Catholic doctrine. And so right at the same time that Bishop Irenaeus wrote against the herodies heresies, he also discovered these new letters of Paul that had never existed before. Where, where Paul is condemning Gnostics and stuff. You know, so it's, it was like a revisionist, you know, control the past, you can control the future type of.

[Alex Ferrari]

Deal the Romans have.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

So yeah, they're good at that.

[Timothy Hogan]

Right, Exactly.

[Alex Ferrari]

Question. Now I'm going to go a little farther, a little farther down the line with the Templars.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Who were the presiding brethren that counted Benjamin Franklin as one of their own.

[Timothy Hogan]

Oh sure. So by. So we're moving forward quite a bit in history.

[Alex Ferrari]

We jumped, we've been in the back.

[Timothy Hogan]

We've been in the back. So now, so keep in mind, 1314 Templar orders completely suppressed, move forward to the 1700s. You know, the order has remained largely underground. It is, it is taken on new expressions in the form of Freemasonry, Which.

[Alex Ferrari]

Freemasons come from the Templar.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Correct.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. So by 1717, the Grand Lodge of England is formed out of other bodies underground Templar bodies, including a group known as the Kabbalah Club and other groups. The Society of Unknown Philosophers is another group that contributed to the Kabbalah Club, which became standard Freemasonry. But so Freemasonry then becomes this Templar expression and it becomes very big, especially here in the forming United States with, with people like. Well, like my great grandfather seven generations back, was physician and general Joseph Warren, who fought at the Battle of Bunker Hill. And he's the one who also planned the Boston Tea Party. He initiated Paul Revere. He was a. And he was a past grand commander of the Templar Order.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's like one of the national treasures.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, very similar, very similar. His son, Joseph Warren Jr. Ended up marrying Elizabeth Burns, who was Robert Burns, the poet of Scotland, his daughter. And Robert Burns was a very famous Freemason as well. He wrote ol enzyme that we. That we sing during New Year's, amongst other things. But so, but there was. So, but Freemasonry became one of these expressions. I mean, the two big expressions that came out of the Templar Order were Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism.

[Alex Ferrari]

The Rosicrucians, Yes.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So by the way, Rosicrucian was, whose symbol is Rose Cross. Where that came from originally is when the Templars went down into Egypt, they were trying to find this place known as Rostow, which was deemed to be where all the Atlantean records and everything were kept. And it's actually this region between Giza and Saqqara in ancient Egypt, which is about this 20 mile area where there's all these tunnel networks underneath the ground. But in the Egyptian language, Rostau, if we translate that into Latin, Ross becomes rose and Tao becomes cross. So Rostau of ancient Egypt became symbolized by a rose cross, which is why the Templars made all of the cathedrals in the shape of crosses, but they put rose windows in them to make them rose crosses.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

To symbolize the technology and the knowledge of ancient Egypt which they were trying to replicate on these cathedrals. So a little sideshow. But then that became this whole Rosicrucian.

[Alex Ferrari]

Movement, which now, by the way, makes sense because I've discovered the rooster. I started discovering the Rosicrucians recently.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

And a lot of the ideas that they come up with that they talk about is essentially what you're talking about, right?

[Timothy Hogan]

Exactly.

[Alex Ferrari]

The consciousness, all this stuff that Christianity, everything.

[Timothy Hogan]

All of it.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Timothy Hogan]

And alchemy and everything.

[Alex Ferrari]

All of these things have come from that. So now, I didn't know that they're start. They're oranges.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah. So they're. So their origin is Templar and Freemasonry too. So the two big expressions by the 1600s are Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism. So. So by the time of Benjamin Franklin, Freemasonry is very public, right?

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, yeah, big time.

[Timothy Hogan]

You know, I mean, it's. It is. It has become the secret glue of the new founding republic. And, you know, most of the founding fathers were Freemasons or Rosa and. Or Rosicrucians. And so the knowledge and some of the secrets that had been preserved over the centuries, over the centuries, they became custodians of. And Benjamin Franklin was right in there with it. And he becomes a Grand Master of Freemasonry. He is. His influence on the founding of the Republic is huge. So much so that one of the things that the Templars had done previously is they had secured all these artifacts, including these arks, as well as ossuaries that contain the bones, fragments of important people and as well as texts, they secured all this stuff to hide it from the powers that be in Europe at the time. They brought it all over here to the Americas to hide it. And specifically, this is the, really, the reason why Columbus went to Spain to get funding to come to the New World, because he knew that the Templars were already coming over here. That's the whole reason why he flew the Templar Cross on his boats.

[Alex Ferrari]

You're right, they did that. They were depicted with the Templar Cross on.

[Timothy Hogan]

Correct. Because he was trying to fool the natives and make them think that he was a Templar so that he could try to get. Because he knew that the Templars were working with the natives, so he was trying to fool them into thinking he was a Templar so that he could get those secrets of where these treasures are to bring them back to Spain. And that's the whole reason why Spain funded him to do it.

[Alex Ferrari]

So technically, we should be having Templar Day sales instead of Columbus Day.

[Timothy Hogan]

Totally. Yeah, totally. Completely. 100%. 100%. He even Columbus, even, you know, he even pulled one of the Grandmaster's daughters out of a convent and married her to try to get this, the secrets of how to how to get to the new world. And prior to Spain, he went to Portugal and he tried to get Portugal to fund him and they wouldn't fund him because Portugal was funded, was started as a Templar state and the king of Portugal was when the Templar order was suppressed, one of the places they went to was Portugal. They just changed their name to the Knights of Christ and kept operating. So the king of Portugal already knew there was land on the other side.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, let me ask you this then. Why has the narrative been that Christopher Columbus. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Timothy Hogan]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats. Now through October 7th, you can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkin, Snickers Miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, Raw sugar, milk chocolate, caramel, Jack O' Lanterns, Brock's Candy, Corn Charms, Mini Pops and more offerings October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show. There's. There's the rhymes about it. It's. It's the first thing you learn.

[Timothy Hogan]

1492, 1492, sail the ocean blue. All that stuff. Why.

[Alex Ferrari]

Why is that narrative been completely upheld if everybody knew the Templar. I mean when. Even when I went to school they said there's chances the Vikings came over.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right? Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Actually discover. So they at least mentioned that. But Chris is the one that gets all the attention.

[Timothy Hogan]

Gets all the attention.

[Alex Ferrari]

Why is that?

[Timothy Hogan]

Ironically, it was from a Political move. Shocking in the. It was the. I wish I could put. Put the date, and I don't. The details are kind of fuzzy, so bear with me. But basically what happened was there was a. An instance. I want to say it was in. I can't remember what state it was, but there was a. An instance in which there were Italian. There was an issue between the Italians and the Irish at the time.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

Where. Where there was these Italian gangs that had killed this. This Irish police commissioner. And I want to say it was in New York or someplace like that. And as a result.

[Alex Ferrari]

But this is 14. So this. This is going into the 1400.

[Timothy Hogan]

No, no, no. This is like in the early 1900s.

[Alex Ferrari]

No, no, I understand. So is that where is this. This is where the origin.

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, I'm telling you where Columbus State came from.

[Alex Ferrari]

Okay, right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So. So what happened was this police commissioner had been killed by these Italians, and it led to this reaction by the population who's then started persecuting anyone who is Italian.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

To the point where. I mean, it was really bad. It was really bad. We're talking, like gangs in New York type of deal. So there were. And to the point where there were all these Italian families that had been prosecuted or persecuted by the larger population in the area. And the. It just so happened at the same time, the ambassador from Italy was visiting the United States, and United States almost went to war with Italy over it.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

I mean, it was. It got that bad.

[Alex Ferrari]

So it really had nothing to do with it. It was just these guys.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right, right.

[Timothy Hogan]

That happened to be Italian.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So, I mean, but it was really bad. I can't remember who the president was at the time. You know, people have to look this up. So I'm just giving you the.

[Alex Ferrari]

The broad strokes.

[Timothy Hogan]

The broad strokes. I apologize. But what happened then was the. The Italian ambassador said to the President of the United States, he said, you know, you need to make this right. I. We need reparations for the. The Italian families that have been, you know, hurt through all of this. And the president of the United States at the time said, okay, yeah, we'll get it straightened out. I'm sorry. What else can we do? And the ambassador of Italy at the time said, and we want Columbus to be celebrated within the United States. And the president of the United States at the time said, no problem. He created Columbus Day and the narrative, and then. That was the narrative.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Yeah, right.

[Timothy Hogan]

And it's been going ever since.

[Alex Ferrari]

But it's not that long ago.

[Timothy Hogan]

It's not that long ago. So like, like over the. Maybe 100 years, 150 years at most.

[Alex Ferrari]

So that. But. So then. But was it very public knowledge that the Templars were on the other side, on the other side of the world, or is it more.

[Timothy Hogan]

No, I don't think. I don't think it was super public knowledge. It's become so more over the years, more and more. Okay, but I mean, there was always that knowledge of the Vikings.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, the Vikings.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, but the Vikings. You know, the thing that. The truth of the matter is there were a lot of different groups coming over here to the Americas long before Columbus, including the Egyptians.

[Alex Ferrari]

They could cross the bridge over the river. The Vikings, at that point, that bridge was open.

[Timothy Hogan]

The Phoenicians. There were even Celtic travelers. You know, I live in Colorado, and in Colorado there are. There are probably 30 different archaeological sites that have Celtic Ogham writing on them.

[Alex Ferrari]

Which makes no sense.

[Timothy Hogan]

Which makes no sense from a standard narrative. But like. But the reality is there were all these groups that were coming over here, and this is part of where the Templars learned about it. The Templars had associations with the Vikings, by the way. Viking just means pirate. Yeah, you know, that's because that's really what they were. They were just pirates. And that's really how the Templars started out, too. They were seafaring. When they were suppressed, they became the first pirates, you know, attacking back at the. At the establishment. The establishment that did suppress them.

[Alex Ferrari]

They were rebels.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So, of course they were associated with Viking lineages, you know, and they gained that knowledge in Egypt. There were even Jewish travelers that had come here to the Americas. So. So learning all of this, that's how the Templars learned of it. And then they just took advantage of it and they came over here and established great relations with the different tribes. And. Yeah, so Columbus was like, way later. Like, way later, you know, so I'll.

[Alex Ferrari]

Go back a few. A few hundred years back now. Napoleon. Napoleon. Napoleon Bonaparte, you know, when he took over, he took over a lot of stuff.

[Timothy Hogan]

A lot of stuff.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah. When he was scouring, what did he find when he got into the Vatican archives?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, so, so.

[Alex Ferrari]

And what is the Templar part in that?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, so part of what he was looking. So Napoleon, first of all, was he. He was the illegitimate grandson of Bonnie Prince Charlie, who was the Scottish king in exile in France. Okay. So when Bonnie Prince, he was a steward, and they had been perpetuating some of this knowledge from this bloodline, quote unquote, from Jesus and Mary Magdalene that was passing on knowledge of the Egyptian mysteries and everything else and some of these gnostic ideas. So, so even though he was outwardly a Roman Catholic, he was secretly practicing this knowledge, the sacred knowledge that was being passed on. He had a bastard son who had a son who was Napoleon, Right. Hence Bonaparte, which means of good blood, basically.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So Napoleon was raised in this. He was, he would been aware of many of these mysteries. This is also why he married Josephine, who was a Merovingian princess. The Merovingians were also part of this bloodline, Right. And by the way, they had a myth who, who also pointed to Atlantis. They talk about how there was this, this almost like sea monster that came out of the ocean and that gave birth to the Merovingians. And it was, it was really, it was alluding to the myths of Awanas, who was a, according to the Sumerian traditions, was a. This God who came out of the sea, who wore fish skins and who baptized priests kings and set up civilization.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

I use one of the seven gods or immortals or you know, they were described as different ways who came out of the sea to set up the civilization. So Napoleon had not only that Stuart line, but the Merovingian line. And then Napoleon's personal physician was Bernard Raymond Fabre Palaprat, who was the Grand Master of the Templar Order.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So he had all of these influences very early on. When he became emperor, he declared himself the head of all Masonic lodges in France. And he took all this knowledge with him and he went on his campaigns, including raiding the Vatican, bringing all the Vatican archives back to France where they were at.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

Stored at St. Sulpice Cathedral and where people like Eliphas Levi, also known as Alfonso Constance, he was put in charge of sifting through. And Charles Nodier and others, they were all. They were all put in charge of sifting through all of these Vatican documents from the Vatican archives, specifically looking for Templar information.

[Alex Ferrari]

But this is. I mean, did they take all of it or most of it?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, they took most of it. It's hard to say. Yeah, but a lot of it did. A lot of it.

[Alex Ferrari]

How did it get back to the Vatican?

[Timothy Hogan]

They gave it back afterwards after they would slip through it all. Yeah, so he was. He was just looking for certain information, you know, and so he cataloged it all, sent it back. And this part of the reason why there's a. There's a document known as the Sheenan Bartram, which has just been revealed in the last 20 years, which is supposedly this document that the Vatican happened to find in their archives, which just happens to exonerate them from having anything to do with the Templar persecution. Right. Saying, oh, no, we forgave them, but they got, you know, they got burned at the stake anyways, that Friday the 13th thing. Yeah.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So. But the. But. But to me, as looking at that objectively, not as a Templar Grand Master, but just subjectively, if Napoleon had already captured all the Vatican archives, was specifically looking for Templar documents and brought them back to France and never found the Qinon parchment, but it just happened to be found a couple years ago, that suggests to me that that's a later.

[Alex Ferrari]

Forgery, probably more unlikely. But let me ask you, when they were going through all of the archives, which I have to imagine was extensive and vast.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Andrea, all that kind of stuff that they had. Is there any. Because that's the only time I understand to my understanding that there is anyone else but the Vatican in control of the archives.

[Timothy Hogan]

That's correct, yes.

[Alex Ferrari]

Is there any records that they kept In France, is there anyone that wrote down some stuff like, oh, so this is the meaning of life?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think some of it. So, like, if you read the writings of Eliphas Levi, who. He has a book on transcendental magic, and. But I think he was a priest, but he wrote all this weird, esoteric stuff. I think what he was writing was largely based on what he was finding within those archives. And by the way, Albert pike, who became one of the leading lights in Freemasonry, he wrote his book Morals and Dogma, which is almost like. If the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry had a Bible, it would almost be Albert Pike's work. His Morals and dogma. It used to be presented to every member who went through the Scottish Rite. But 85% of morals and Dogma, I would say this is. My estimate, is actually just a complete copy of the writings of Eliphas Levi. They just changed the word. Anytime that Eliphaz Levi used the term magic, Albert pike changed it to Reason. But aside from that, it's plagiary. It's complete. Like, 85% of morals and Dogma comes directly from Eliphas Levi.

[Alex Ferrari]

That's amazing.

[Timothy Hogan]

But, I mean, I think pike probably also knew and recognized why he was doing that, and it was because Elvis Levi was one of the people in charge of sifting through those Vatican documents.

[Alex Ferrari]

What is. Let me ask you before we finish up, Timothy, because I could keep talking.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

To you for days.

[Alex Ferrari]

Days and days.

[Timothy Hogan]

I could be talking to you.

[Alex Ferrari]

What is the purpose and what is the mission now of the Knights Templar? Since we're not crusading anymore.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

You know, and doing all that stuff. What are you. What is the Order doing? Correct. Now, and what's the mission?

[Timothy Hogan]

Well, first of all, we have to understand what a Templar is. A Templar is a warrior monk.

[Alex Ferrari]

A Jedi.

[Timothy Hogan]

A Jedi. In fact, in the original Star wars script, the Jedi referred to as Templar. Jedi Knights is what they referred to as. And even the word Jedi comes from the jed, which is the background backbone of Osiris, the background pillar of Osiris, you know, and it was. How do you. How do you build up the energy along the spinal column?

[Alex Ferrari]

Hence.

[Timothy Hogan]

Hence the chakra system and everything. Kundalini energy, you know, that's. That's found in ancient Egypt to utilize it. So that's kind of the esoteric backstory of that. But from a modern standpoint, what is a warrior monk?

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Well.

[Timothy Hogan]

It doesn't mean. In ancient times, we might say, oh, it was someone who studied scripture, Baku could also kick ass. Right. But really what it's about is how do you engage in the spiritual practice on the one hand, while also doing your work in the world? How do you unite those two things? How do you go to your 9 to 5 job, or you're an accountant or whatever, or you're a mechanic, auto mechanic, or you're whatever you do while still engaging in the spiritual practice? So it's, how do we unite those things? And that's still the mission of the Templars today. How do we do the inner work, the inner reflective work in the spiritual practice while still engaging in the world?

[Alex Ferrari]

Beautiful.

[Timothy Hogan]

And so, yeah, that's. I mean, what you're doing right now with the show, that's Templar work, right? I mean, you are looking at these deeper spiritual truths while still paying your taxes. You know what I mean?

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, I've been associated with worse groups, sir, so I appreciate that in my life.

[Timothy Hogan]

So ultimately, that's the Templar work. Now, how that's applied in other ways is as Templars, one of the things we do, modern Templars is the quest is still the same. We are still exploring the different spiritual truths out there, the different cultures, the recognizing the. Their contribution to the greater unfoldment of consciousness of humanity. And how do we celebrate that and how do we. How do we try to wake up other people to that as well so we can recognize we are one human family. And you know, on the Great Seal of the United States, it says, e pluribus unum. Many out of one. Well, that's who we are. I mean, not only symbolically as a nation, but as people. We appear as separate.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

But in reality, we're one mind, which.

[Alex Ferrari]

Is what so many religions and ideas and philosophies and masters have said. They are all one.

[Timothy Hogan]

And as soon as we recognize that, that's how we can come to living in harmony with this universal order, each other.

[Alex Ferrari]

Beautifully said.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Timothy Hogan]

So that's the work of the Templar.

[Alex Ferrari]

So I'm going to ask you a few questions, ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

[Timothy Hogan]

In my opinion, living a fulfilled life is living in harmony with that universal consciousness. Because the more we're in tune with that, the more everything else falls into place.

[Alex Ferrari]

Now, if you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Timothy, what advice would you give him?

[Timothy Hogan]

I would tell him to stay focused on the spiritual path and don't get too caught up in this. Yeah, the bs. You can't save everybody. All you can do is provide opportunities for new ways of reflection. Personal reflection. But you can't do it for people.

[Alex Ferrari]

How do you define God or source? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

[Timothy Hogan]

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Timothy Hogan]

To me Source or God or whatever you want to call it is the the it is the pure light of and life of realized consciousness in that.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

It.

[Timothy Hogan]

Is beyond the human some of the petty human traits you have to be careful as however you define God gives you permission to be the way you are.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh my God.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

So if you believe in a jealous God, well that allows you to be jealous, right?

[Alex Ferrari]

Wrathful.

[Timothy Hogan]

Want to be wrathful. But God, yeah loves you to be wrathful. So prideful. So we have to get beyond all that. And I'm not trying to to criticize followers of the Old Testament. I'm just saying that we need to be able to be better than that.

[Alex Ferrari]

Agreed.

[Timothy Hogan]

And and I think that's that's the reason why in my opinion the true God is a God of light and love and and that's and that's our destiny of who we're becoming.

[Alex Ferrari]

It is.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

And we are getting better.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

We're getting better. We still got a long way to go.

[Alex Ferrari]

But what is love?

[Timothy Hogan]

Love is the conscious connection that unites everything. But it's realized.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Right?

[Timothy Hogan]

You can't. You can't have love without it being realized as a connection. And so.

[Alex Ferrari]

And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

[Timothy Hogan]

The ultimate purpose of life is embodying that. That universal consciousness, that love. That's where we're heading. We're all striving towards that. As we incarnate into this world, we.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

Get.

[Timothy Hogan]

Distracted and we take on all kinds of bs and it buries who we really are. But the purpose of life is unburying. All that, aligning more with that source.

[Alex Ferrari]

And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing with the Templars?

[Timothy Hogan]

Oh, thanks. Yeah, people find me on Facebook Timothy W. Hogan, or you just Google Timothy Hogan. You'll find me. But I do. I can be found, you know, giving presentations like this. You can find me on Gaia. I have a series, Mysteries of the Knights Templar.

[Alex Ferrari]

Fantastic.

[Timothy Hogan]

Which is. Thank you. And. But yeah, those are the best ways to find me. Find me on Facebook is the best way to find me, probably.

[Alex Ferrari]

And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, I would just encourage. I mean, obviously anyone who watches, listens to this or watches this point of this conversation. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they're already tuned into wanting to know more about themselves, their place in the universe, and their. Their spiritual practice is already being called into question. And I would just encourage people to continue with that, continue following that from a Templar perspective. That's the quest. That's the quest for the Holy Grail, right. Is going out into the world or going within yourself and encountering those dragons, encountering those. Those challenges that are out there, and then figuring out what you need to learn from them. And that's going to ultimately lead you to your true self, which is ultimately connected with the great mystery of who we really are, where we really come from, and where we're really going. And that's what the spiritual quest is all about.

[Alex Ferrari]

Very well said, my friend.

[Timothy Hogan]

Very well said.

[Alex Ferrari]

Timothy, it's been such a pleasure and honor talking to you today. I appreciate you and everything you're doing to help awaken the planet, my friend.

[Timothy Hogan]

Likewise. Thank you so much for having me on. And I'm so happy about everything you do, all your interviews that you're doing for everybody. You care about, what it's really about.

[Interjecting Speaker (possibly Timothy Hogan or co-host)]

And.

[Timothy Hogan]

Yeah, it's such an honor to be on here. Thank you.

[Alex Ferrari]

Appreciate you my friend. I'd like to thank Timothy so much for coming on the show and sharing his knowledge and wisdom with all of us. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at next levelsoul.com forward/496 now if this conversation stirred something in you, there's more waiting. You can listen to this episode completely commercial free on next level Soul TV's app where Soul meets streaming. Watch and listen on Apple iOS, Android, Apple TV, Roku, Android TV, Fire TV, LG and Samsung apps anytime, anywhere. Begin your Awakening at next LevelSoul TV. Thank you so much for listening. As I always say, trust the journey. It's there to teach you. I'll see you next time.

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[Timothy Hogan]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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