← Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari
Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari
FLASHBACK FRIDAYS: Your Soul Wants You to Know This with Jeffrey Davis
01:16:41
Today's guest will be helping us tap into out own sense of wonder that can help you on your creative path. We have on the show author, entrepreneur and human potential expert Jeffrey Davis. Jeff approach's life and work as a quest. Everything he does...
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- [00:00]
Freddie Prinze Jr.
Hey, I'm Freddie Prinze Jr. On my podcast Wrestling with Freddie, we talk about what happens when things take a turn in and outside of the ring. Like when the heel wrestlers back you up into a corner and your tag team partner jumps in to have your back. It helps to have backup. That's why so many people turn to their State Farm agent to help choose the coverage you need and to be there when it counts. Because when life gets unpredictable, it's good to know someone's in your corner. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.
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Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is hot out there this summer, right? But don't sweat it. We got tons of ways to save on your family's favorite personal care items to keep yourself feeling cool and smelling good. Now through September 9th, earn four times points when you shop for items from your favorite brands like Right Guard, Raw Sugar, Dove Soft Soap and Olay. Then use your points for discounts on groceries or gas on future purchases. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details. I'm Scott Hansen, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's knows Sundays are for football. That's why we're here to help you get your next DIY project done. Even when the clock isn't on your side. Whether that's a new Filtreat filter or Bosch and Cobalt power tools, Lowe's has everything you need to feel like the MVP of diy. So get it done and earn your sundae. Shop now in store and online. Lowe's Official Partner of the NFL.
- [01:31]
Alex Ferrari
Welcome to the Next Level Soul podcast, where we ask the big questions about life. Why are we here? Is this all there is? What is my soul's mission? We attempt to answer those questions and more by bringing you raw and inspiring conversations with some of the most fascinating and thought provoking guests on the planet today. I am your host, Alex Ferrari. Now, if you wanted to go deeper down the rabbit hole with Next Level Soul, please download the free Next Level Soul app on Apple or Android. All you've got to do is go over to next levelsoul.com subscribe, download and get access to meditations, exclusive interviews, live streams with me, and early access to episodes before they air anywhere else and so, so much more. So again, head over to next levelsoul.com forward/subscribe Disclaimer the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of the show. Its host or any of the companies they represent. Now guys, today on the show we are going to go into wonder, specifically tracking your wonder, opening your creative juices up and connect with your inner child, the thing that keeps you creative, the thing that artists like Steven Spielberg has been able to do throughout his career to stay in touch with that inner child. And today's guest is the person to do that. Today on the show we have best selling author Jeffrey Davis, who is the writer behind the new book Tracking Wonder, Reclaiming a life of meaning and possibility in a world obsessed with productivity. And Jeff and I had a fantastic conversation about the creative process and how you can tap into that well of creativity to get into the flow of things to understand where your creative well lives and how you understanding wonder and tracking wonder in your life will allow you to be more creative in any kind of creative endeavor you do, regardless if it's creative or even in business or in life in general. And it's a really, it was a really eye opening conversation. So let's dive in. I'd like to welcome to the show Jeffrey Davis. How you doing Jeffrey?
- [04:06]
Jeffrey Davis
I'm doing great, how are you?
- [04:07]
Alex Ferrari
I'm doing great my friend. I'm doing great. I really wanted to have you on the show because I need some wonder in my life. I need to track some of that wonder and I need to use it to help me in my creative path as well as not only creative path, but honestly your soul's path in so many ways just like your life's journey. So I have to ask you, how did you get started in this field of work?
- [04:34]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, yeah, this field of work, of tracking wonder. Right. It's the name of my company and consultancy. Like how do you do that? So yeah, I'll just start off briefly, we can talk about more what is wonder and what I've come to discover about the nature of these experiences of wonder after 15 plus years of deliberate research into it. Currently I'm a strategist and consultant and that's often been my line of work for quite some time. And over 15 years ago I was researching another project related to creativity and the creative process. Came across a book, little known book of Yoga philosophy. And it kind of really opened me up. And I'll just say briefly, that was kind of the moment of inspiration because the commentary said something about the nature of reality might be like this ordinary waking world and this world of the interior world of the dreams and mind that we have. And when you can experience ultimate reality right here in this ordinary world, then you're characterized quite often by wonder or a sort of joy filled amazement. And so when I read that, that was a moment of inspiration for me because I realized I've been looking for much of my life for those sets of experiences, those sets of experiences where you feel fully alive and like this is it in this ordinary world without having to seek transcendence or some other reality. Yeah, so that was a moment of inspiration. I then devoted a lot of my work toward researching and taking some deep dives into these experiences of Wonder. This is 2004, so there is very little science of wonderful available.
- [06:31]
Alex Ferrari
So I didn't know that there was any, there was any period.
- [06:35]
Jeffrey Davis
There was actually some science of awe just starting. And so I was talking with some of Those psychologists like Dr. Keltner at a UC Berkeley who actually confers with Pixar Studios on the science of awe. Now so there was a little science of awe, but very little. Yes on the science of wonder. And so, but I was taking some deep dives in some other areas trying to make some, some connections about wonder. Kind of an intellectual journey. And then a few years later, after experiencing just a set of personal adversity, within a year of my wife and I getting married and buying our dream house farmhouse in the Hudson Valley of New York, we had a house fire. I had Lyme disease that, the, the fire put us out of our house for 15 plus months. We ended up having a baby in that 15 months, our first baby. There was just like a number of things that was just like a domino effect. But I did what I did and I got really curious about what was going on with me in tandem with my explorations of wonder. So this is kind of the defining moment to your question. This was a set of inflection points for me in that period. I got really curious about the relationship between our experiencing adversity, constant challenge, constant change, and whether or not experiences of wonder could help us not only navigate that adversity, but ultimately flourish in that adversity. So I committed a lot of my research and a lot of my delivery to my, my clients with that framework in mind. And I'll just say in brief. Part of my discovery and part of the premise of the book Tracking Wonder is that when we look at what I call fulfilled innovators, people who have really contributed to their fields, but who describe their lives as being fulfilled, not burnt out, their surprising advantage is not necessarily 10,000 hours of deliberate practice or grit or wealth or some DNA genius talent. It is actually they have maintained an abiding sense of wonder. And that's what I've continued to test out and further now with the emerging science of wonder in the past six years, I've corroborated that hypothesis.
- [09:16]
Alex Ferrari
There's one director that I always look at that, that has that sense of wonder. Is that Steven Spielberg?
- [09:25]
Jeffrey Davis
Oh, yeah.
- [09:26]
Alex Ferrari
Yes. Steven Spielberg is one of those guys who, who just, you could just tell, even though he's not making his. I mean, his films that he's been making recently in the last, let's say 10, 15 years have been more serious, more grown up tackling like Lincoln and Munich and other things like that. But there's always a sense of wonder in the stuff that he does and he's maintained that wonder throughout his career.
- [09:51]
Jeffrey Davis
You're absolutely right. So Spielberg's early work is definitely wonder driven. Very specifically and just with what I said, it's wonder in this ordinary world. Right. So I'm curious about the Harry Potter movies in part because I have a 12 year old daughter who's really interested in them and the Harry Potter stories. But what I, the reason I'm less interested in those is because there's some other sort of warlock world out there. You know, I'm really interested in the magic among the Muggles, among the ordinary people. But you're absolutely right. Steven Spielberg, Wes Anderson is another one who is constantly full of wonder, who can sometimes take on serious subjects satirically, but also wondrously.
- [10:36]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah. And it's interesting as you start going down the list of filmmakers or just creatives in general in whichever field, the people who are at their highest level, they all seem to have a sense of wonder, of what they do, of awe almost. And Pixar is a great example of that. I mean, Pixar is, you know, without, without a doubt one of the best track records in history of, of wonder within their storytelling. So when you said, oh yeah, I think we were talking about earlier, that you've interviewed people or have talked to people from Pixar, from animation, that world seems to have so much more wonder than normal Hollywood or normal storytelling. In many ways.
- [11:22]
Jeffrey Davis
In many ways. And yeah, so part of my interviews with innovators in so many different areas in my research, including filmmakers like Mark Osborne, who directed Kung Fu Panda. He also directed the audacious remake of the Little Prince, the most adored story in all of France. And he. And he had to do it very different.
- [11:48]
Alex Ferrari
It was beautiful.
- [11:49]
Jeffrey Davis
It's beautiful.
- [11:50]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah.
- [11:50]
Jeffrey Davis
Credible remake. You know what I'm, I saw, yeah, I saw it.
- [11:53]
Alex Ferrari
It's beautiful.
- [11:53]
Jeffrey Davis
So beautiful. And I asked it. So he said, you know, every animate making every animated film is like a nightmare, which is not unlike what Ken Burns also says. So Ken, you know, amazing documentary filmmaker.
- [12:14]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [12:16]
Honey German
This mood check is brought to you by State Farmte. Honey German Checking in. Contigo. Take a second. Literal mente un momentico parati. How's your corazon feeling today? If it's a little tired, a little oof. You're not alone. Have you eaten algoritho? Taken a deep breath, maybe even turned off your phone for cinco minutitos, I promise the memes will still be there. Sometimes self care isn't candles and meditation, it's just saying no. It's drinking a little bit of agua. It's letting yourself rest. Simpena, you don't have to prove anything today. Just be breathe. Estas haciendo lo mejor que puedes. And yes, that's enough. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [13:03]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is hot out there this summer, right? But don't sweat it. We got tons of ways to save on your family's favorite personal care items to keep yourself feeling cool and smelling good. Now through September 9th, earn four times points when you shop for items from your favorite brands like Right Guard Raw Sugar Free, Dove Soft Soap and Olay. Then use your points for discounts on groceries or gas on future purchases. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [13:34]
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- [14:22]
Alex Ferrari
And now Back to the show says.
- [14:26]
Jeffrey Davis
That every documentary is like a million problems. So if you know that, right, so let's just pause there for a moment because one of the premises of the book, tracking wonder in my body of work, this is what I tell everybody I work with. Every big idea begets a series of challenges. You have a great idea for a film, it's like, yeah, let's make this film. This sounds great, well that's fine, but just know that that's going to beget a series of challenges. So you normalize that. So the question is for Mark Osborne or Ken Burns or Alex or anybody is like, what is going to get you and your team through those series of challenges without burning out and without burning bridges.
- [15:16]
Alex Ferrari
Now one thing I remember about myself when I was younger is my sense of wonder was a lot more than it is today. And I'm not talking about when I was a child. I was talking about like even when I was in my early twenties at film school or, you know, had my new first job and everything seemed wonders to me. Like, oh my God, is that a machine that edits? What is that? What is that camera? What is it? Every, every little part of the process for me was wondrous. And yet as you get older, you become more cynical and you kind of lose that wonder a bit. And those moments that I've always found happiness is when I reconnect to that wonder, wherever that that wonder might be. And I think it's something that comes and we're born innately with that and the world beats it out of us. Is that a fair statement?
- [16:08]
Jeffrey Davis
It's in part true. I so appreciate that you acknowledge that about your earlier self. I think that's true for most of the people I work with. Certainly it's been true for myself. If I could, I'll elaborate just a bit on why does wonder wane. Every human being is born wide eyed with wonder. And certain cultural anthropologists corroborate this. That we human beings impart uniquely are born wide eyed with wonder. We're perhaps here, some evolutionary biologists are suggesting, to wonder. So the question is, why do we lose it? As you're saying, it's in part neurological. At about 12 or 13 years old. You remember that time, it was like the time I called the lowest ring of the inferno for myself. It was really hard years.
- [17:02]
Alex Ferrari
Oh yeah, puberty sucks. Puberty sucks.
- [17:04]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, yeah, it's hard. My 12 year old daughter is navigating, navigating it Grace graciously so far, but far better than I did. But what's happening neurologically even for her is her synapses are paring out. She's not making as many synaptical connections. And so not everything seems so amazingly new anymore already. Right. That just is natural neurologically. The other part is in part social and cultural. We start becoming self conscious how we're being sized up with other people. It's also cultural, Alex. I mean, we swim in a culture in this country that prizes productivity to a fault and daydreaming and wondering doesn't appear productive, although I could argue and demonstrate why it ultimately is. But it certainly doesn't appear that way. Right, so that's a part of it too. Now what you identified as a young filmmaker is the novelty part of that wide eyed wonder. Right? Wonder has several facets that I explore in the book. But one is that wide eyed openness. Right. When things are new, when the ideas are new, when the equipment's new and like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be a filmmaker. And you're right, if we're not careful, we can become jaded, we can become cynical, we can become, we can approach the world as been there, done that. Oh yeah, tell me something I don't already know. That whole mindset is self defeating and it's clearly wonder defeating. Yeah, so, so to answer your question, yes, it's all of that and more. Right. It's not that the world beats it out of us, it's that the, the world we've inherited does not necessarily support us as wondering grownups. But I will argue that wonder is not kid stuff. It is radical. Really important, grown up stuff.
- [19:01]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah, absolutely. And I've, I had friends of mine, very good friends of mine who worked at Disney Animation and I would walk into Disney Animation and I would just see people playing video games. They would have like full room set up with video games and arcades and whatever, you know, basketball nets and things that are absolutely nothing to do with productivity because it allowed their juices to flow and allow that, I guess, sense of wonder, that creativity to roll to, to come through. And when I saw that, I was like, this is amazing, is remarkable. And now they have that in the tech companies in the, you know, Google and Apple and those, they have those kind of environments now where it's not the cubicle, sit down, do your job nine to five. Yes, those worlds exist, but those companies I find don't, aren't nearly as productive as, I mean, I just mentioned it. Google, Apple, I mean Disney, these are, these are top of their industry. Kind of companies, and they're letting their. Their employees just kind of goof around, quote, unquote, goof around. But they realize the benefit of allowing yourself, even if you're working at home, allowing yourself time to wonder, time to reconnect with that child. And I go back to Spielberg because he said it so much. I've talked to so many people who've worked with him over the years, and they said it's like seeing a child on set. And a lot of these big directors, a lot of these big screenwriters and filmmakers and other people in others in other fields, they seem to be able to connect to that at will. And that's their superpower.
- [20:40]
Jeffrey Davis
Boy, you just said it. So I love that you're making these connections. Ron Howard, I think, is another one as well.
- [20:48]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah, Ron is. He's. Yeah. I've spoken to a few people who've worked with him, and he's just like this child on set, and you could see it in their eyes. And the actors love working with these because they start feeling like, oh, I'm at home dressing up for my parents to put on a show. And when you can connect to that energy as an adult, it's extremely powerful because we all watching that on a subconscious level, are yearning for that. That those good times, if those were good times for you. But to go back to that moment of wonder, to go back to believing in all the things that we believed in when we were children, it was just such a. You know, not nostalgia, but it's just something that connects you to that source. Whatever. You want to use it, use it.
- [21:38]
Jeffrey Davis
No, you. So hit it. And. And. Right. Our childhoods are complicated. And I do watch my two girls and my younger one, I think, wow, childhood's actually really confusing. Oh, nothing's. Nothing's at your scale. You know, nothing sized for you and so forth. Like, it's really confus. You're learning these crazy rules that these crazy giants have set up for you. And so you've hit it on so many tracks. So there's actually an essay I often go back to. It was written in the late 1800s by a poet and art critic named Charles Baudelaire. And he was looking at the artwork of this artist, Constantine Guise, who had just started painting in his 60s, I think. You know, it started pretty late, and was naively trained, not formally trained, exhibiting some of his early work in Paris, like the art center of the world. And he's writing this essay about Constantine Guise as sort of like a portrait of the future. Modern artist, sort of forcing the 20th century. And what he was recognizing in guise, who Gies wasn't drawing or painting the sort of common romantic figures of the heroic past. He was painting ordinary women and people on the streets and sidewalks right around him. And so Baudelaire, to like something you said a minute ago, Baudelaire says about guise and about painters in general and about us in general, is that genius is the capacity to retrieve childhood at will. Genius is the capacity to retrieve childhood at will, which is exactly what you're getting on. And so not to get too philosophical for your audience, but I'm sure there are lots of, you know, if this is a film audience, I can go a little philosophical. So genius. So I've studied philosophy for a long time too. And in Greek philosophy, among Aristotle and others, genius, the word, the Greek word for genius is daemon. And so Aristotle and others contended that we're each born with a daemon, this unique force of character that is unique to every one of us. You know, Steven Spielberg has his, Ron Howard has his, Alex has his, I have mine. The thing is, we're born forgetting what that unique force of character is. And occasionally, in certain moments, you will remember it. Occasionally, in certain moments, maybe a mentor will reflect back to you something innately talented in you that you don't quite see in yourself.
- [24:21]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [24:23]
Honey German
This mood check is brought to you by State Farm. Honey, German, checking in. Contigo, Take a second. Literal mente un momentico para t. How's your corazon feeling today? If it's a little tired, a little. Oof. You're not alone. Have you eaten algorico? Taken a deep breath, maybe even turned off your phone for cinco minutitos. I promise the memes will still be there. Sometimes self care isn't candles and meditation. It's just saying no. It's drinking a little bit of agua. It's letting yourself rest. Simpena, you don't have to prove anything today. Just be breathe. Estas haciendo lo mejor que puedes. And yes, that's enough. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [25:10]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is hot out there this summer, right? But don't sweat it. We got tons of ways to save on your family's favorite personal care items to keep yourself feeling cool and smelling good. Now through September 9th, earn four times points when you shop for items from your favorite brands, like Right Guard, raw sugar, Dove Soft soap and olay. Then use your points for discounts on groceries or gas on future purchases. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [25:43]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.
- [25:45]
Jeffrey Davis
Say hi, Dan.
- [25:46]
Dan Morgan
Hey. How's it going today?
- [25:47]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [25:50]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [25:56]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion one. 20 billion is an insane number.
- [26:05]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [26:17]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [26:23]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.
- [26:32]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow.
- [26:33]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [26:37]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.
- [26:44]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show.
- [26:47]
Jeffrey Davis
So one thing I have teams do is actually recall moments when they might have been 7 or 8, 9 or 10 years old before some of that neuronal pairing and recall certain moments when you felt alive and free to be distinctly you without regard for reward or recognition. And when you really delve into those memories in sensory ways, maybe even write about them, you will remember certain traits about sort of your young genius, so to speak. And the evidence is showing that when you do that, when you actually recall those moments, share those moments, and then actively bring forward some of those traits to your work at hand. I just imagine if you recalled that young genius every morning and wrote down, say, three of those traits of your young genius every morning and then looked at your schedule and said, how am I going to bring one or more of those traits with me today at work? Things change. And I've seen it happen over and over again that somebody who feels like they've lost that sense of wonder starts to up their wonder ratio. It's not like you go through the whole day like Peter Pan. God forbid you do up your wonder ratio and you maintain some of that idealism but in a pragmatic way.
- [28:17]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah, there's. There's a thing I always say when I'm. When I'm speaking. I. I always tell people, how many here know an angry and bitter filmmaker? And then people would. People would raise their hands or screenwriter, and they would raise their hands, and I go, whoever didn't raise your hand, you are the angry and bitter filmmaker that everybody else knows. Because it's just the way it is. What, in your opinion, causes. You know, you know, we're using the. We're using filmmaking as a. As an example, but they're in any field, whether it be opening a business, writing a book, you know, being an actor or a painter or anything. What is it that causes us to lose that hope, lose that wonder of what got us started in the first place and turns us into those angry and bitter souls walking around the planet who we have to deal with on Twitter?
- [29:13]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, that's tough. It's a tough question. It's really a tough question. You know, part of my job, I feel like, is to keep open and wondering about our fellow human beings, especially the ones and the behaviors that so puzzle me. Like the trolls, right? And, yes, very bitter people. And I've had some of them, and often, like, I'm like, how can I. How can I get through a little bit? And I often will succeed by just, like, acknowledging, okay, they're coming from some. Some place, some dark place that has.
- [29:44]
Alex Ferrari
Nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with you.
- [29:46]
Jeffrey Davis
Nothing to do with me. Right.
- [29:47]
Alex Ferrari
I always have to remember, has nothing.
- [29:49]
Jeffrey Davis
To do with me. It's not personal. Like, how can I get through here, you know, through Twitter, which is, you know, this strange medium. And sometimes, you know, sometimes that can succeed and get a little opening and connection between us. That is a complicated question. I don't know if I can answer it, but I will say this. Certainly excessive trauma, betrayal, crisis upon crisis leads to it. But one of the facets of wonder, one of the six facets of wonder that I lay out in tracking wonder, and this comes after a lot of research, is the facet of hope. And I have to admit my own bias against hope. Before I really dug into the science of hope with Shane Lopez and some other psychologists, I had a bias against hope because it sounded sort of like, oh, you're just hoping, you know, you got maybe false hope, you're delusional, something like that. Sort of wishful thinking. It turns out that the facet of hope is not wishful thinking. It's very proactive. So I can't completely answer what it is that leads a certain individual to completely lose hope after crisis, after trauma and so forth. But I will maybe tell a story about Nick Cave, since we're talking to a creative audience here. Nick, for those listeners who don't know, is a phenomenal. He's probably the most renowned musician in all of Australia. He's a bard, singer, songwriter. The Bad Seeds have been his band for, for a few decades. I think one of his musical scores has been on a Harry Potter film again. So, so Nick, like his muse just doesn't stay in any one lane either. I think he's, he's published novels as well. 2000, he married his wife Susie and they had twin sons. And he said in an interview around 2000 that he became a nine to five man. His muse, like would come to work at nine, was off at five because he wanted to be full on as a father and husband and so forth, have a kind of integrated life, was very successful that way and kind of operating that way. Um, it's quite often how I function and flourish too. I have to like bring my muse on at will. So 2015, his sons are 15 years old. One of them falls off a chalk cliff while they're on vacation and falls to his death at 15 years old. And as somebody who's a father of a 12 year old and a 7 year old daughter, like that is just, I can't really fathom what he went through. So what, what, what possibly gets us out of that crisis, out of that darkness when the world has gone so bleak and dark and as it did for him, as you can imagine and for Susie as well, he said he was just completely off centered and completely, of course, self absorbed. Like they couldn't just imagine why this happened to them. And it took a while to get out of that. There were a couple of, I think, central pieces to his story about what brought him hope again. One was community. His community of fans reached out to him. So he started a blog called the Red Hand Files where he writes these intimate letters to people who are asking him questions. And that support network is really important for us when we're experiencing crisis and adversity or trauma, to surround ourselves with other hopeful people, genuinely hopeful people, give us real encouragement, not just bad advice. And so the other piece though, Alex, he says in the very first blog on Red Hand Files, somebody says, how are you getting through this incredible grief and mourning? What's getting you through? How are you able to create again? So he says in that opening blog he said we had lost our center. What was our center? Well, for me and probably for most creative people, if not all human beings, it's a sense of wonder. And the trauma completely divorced us from that sense of wonder, he said. And so we had to go through our mourning and through our grief and gradually find our back, our way back to the creative process. He couldn't stick to a 9 to 5 process. It was messy.
- [34:21]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.
- [34:31]
Jeffrey Davis
So messy. But he gradually started to string together a few chords, a few lyrics, and ultimately created Alex, an incredible album that I would recommend to all of your listeners called Ghost Teenage. And it really illustrates how wonder can meet you on the other side of grief. So was a long way of not answering your question. I can't say what leads somebody to be so dark and cynical and so forth, but I suspect, and it's been my experience with such people, that there is still a glimmer and a desire for wonder on the other side. And if they can surround themselves with other people who are hopeful and if they can just move a little more forward towards something creatively, they will have more light than dark along the way.
- [35:22]
Alex Ferrari
Now, when, when we talk about wonder, we're also talking about connecting to creativity, creating. And that creativity could be obviously in the arts, but that also could be in business. That could also be in, you know, in architecture. It could be in a million different fields. How do you use wonder to tap into creativity? Or does creativity just begin to flow? I always, I always talk to a lot of these high performing people who, who are able to get into the zone. It's a fascination of mine. I've been there a couple times. I've been there many times in my life. Especially when you're creative, like, you just lose track of time and, and you're just flowing. You're in the flow. You're just there. You don't even see what's coming in. Sometimes when I write my books, I'm sure you feel this as well. When you're writing, you'll stop writing and you'll go back the next day and read what you wrote. You're like, who wrote that? Like, I don't even. That this is good. Like, I didn't, I don't even remember writing it. When you get to that place in your. And you think, how does wonder. How can you use wonder to tap into that creativity? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [36:34]
Honey German
This mood check is brought to you by State Farm porque tu bienestar Ta am bien. Merced protecion que tal mi gente, honey. German checking in. Contigo. Take a second Literal mente un momentico para t. How's your corazon feeling today? If it's a little tired, a little. Oof. You're not alone. Have you eaten algorico? Taken a deep breath, maybe even turned off your phone for cinco minutitos. I promise the memes will still be there. Sometimes self care isn't candles and meditation. It's just saying no. It's drinking a little bit of agua. It's letting yourself rest. Simpena, you don't have to prove anything today. Just be breathe. Estas haciendo lo mejor que puedes. And yes, that's enough. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [37:20]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Feel good and look good this summer with savings on your personal care favorites and earn four times points now through September 9th. Shop in store or online for items like Dollar Shave Club razors, hydro silk razors and Edge shave gel. Plus some favorite brands like Tampax, Pearl, Depend and Poise to earn four times points to use for later discounts on groceries or gas. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer ends September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [37:53]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.
- [37:55]
Jeffrey Davis
Say hi, Dan.
- [37:56]
Dan Morgan
Hey, how's it going today?
- [37:57]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Hey, it's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [38:01]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [38:07]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently. It said 20 billion one. 20 billion is an insane number.
- [38:16]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north. Probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [38:28]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [38:33]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.
- [38:43]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow.
- [38:43]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [38:48]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.
- [38:55]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show.
- [38:58]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, yeah, they're. They're intimately related and so maybe a couple of definitions are useful. So, and I do address creativity full front in the early chapters of the book. Creativity we could define in the field of psychology as the capacity to generate and act on ideas, novel and useful ideas, from fantasy to fruition. Right? You've got a new idea for a film, you got a new set of problems for the film or for the book or for the business, you're going to meet those challenges all along the way. Creativity is being able to face and finesse each of those challenges and generate novel and useful solutions and then move forward with them. Right? So that's part of the creative process, and it's not always so float. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, actually the one who coined flow, just died last week at 87 years old. And so he did not define flow as being in a state of relaxation.
- [40:05]
Alex Ferrari
No, no, no.
- [40:06]
Jeffrey Davis
He clearly acknowledged, like it is often involving taking on voluntary challenges like filmmaking or starting a business or up leveling up. Leveling a business, Right? So the creative process is like, how do we face and finesse those challenges more expansively with a broader range of resources, both cognitively and socially, to generate and move on those novel and useful solutions? Okay, that's creativity. Wonderful. Define wonder. Right, so wonder is a heightened state of awareness that's brought on by something that's unexpected, that defies your expectations, that either delights you, disorients you, or both. And for a fleeting moment, right, whether it's a bald eagle that suddenly lands in your backyard, which actually happened here last week, we couldn't believe it. That certainly was delightful and disorienting. Whether it's something a colleague of yours says that helps you see that colleague in a new and beautiful way, you're like, wow, I never saw that part of that person. That's a moment of wonder as well. These moments of wonder disrupt our biased ways of looking at a project, disrupt our biased ways of looking at a collaborator, disrupt our biased ways of seeing what we think is real. And something happens cognitively in our minds and neurologically that opens us up right, to another possibility. So it turns out that these moments of wonder are essential both to starting the creative process with a brand new idea and moving us through from curiosity to the middle stages of bewilderment, which is another facet of wonder. Right? We're in the middle of a project, we're thinking, I'm never going to get out of this. Like, why did I even start this project? All the way to forming really good connections with our collaborators, Wonder happens at every one of those stages throughout the creative process. Does that make sense?
- [42:20]
Alex Ferrari
It makes. Yeah, it makes all the sense in the world. Because, you know, when you. When I started this podcast, I'm sure you feel the same way with your show. When I started this, with all of my podcasts, when I start them, especially the first one, I, you know, was just like, hey, can I get a guest? Any guest, you know, someone who can come on, Let me show. You know, let me start providing value to an audience that's not listening, because I was nobody at the time. So you just. And. And as you go through that, I'll use the analogy of a podcast where, you know, you just keep doing it and keep doing it and keep showing up and keep doing it. And for me, I literally live in a moment. I live in a world of wonder every day with my show, because every day I get an email from something from somebody pitching a show or, like, yourself, or I have these amazing, ridiculous people who I've admired all of my life who call up and, like, I'd love to be on your show, and I get to talk for a couple hours with a hero of mine. It's become almost. It's almost become normal now on the show. And everyone listening will understand why, because I've had these amazing guests coming on again and again and again and again. And it's been going like this now for the last, I don't know, year and a half. So it's just been growing and growing, and I just never really put a name to it. But I'm in a moment. I'm in a constant state of wonder because I'm waiting now for Steven Spielberg's people to call me, and Steven's, like, stephen would love to be on your show. I'm waiting for that call. I'm not. Hasn't come yet, but I'm waiting for that call to happen because that would just. You want to talk about disruptive? It would just. It would completely this, like, completely shake my world. And my world has been shaken multiple times over the course of the last year and a half by people calling me up like, hey, can I be on your show? I'm like, what is going on? So I never really noticed that before, and then I. And then all the. All those connections and relationships that I've built open up other doors. Ever since I started this whole show, I've been in a state of wonder. Because every day, every week, something would come up. I'd be like, what the hell is going on? So it's constant. It's really constant. It's really interesting. I've never really put a name to it before.
- [44:37]
Jeffrey Davis
I love that you said that too. I never put a name to it because that was my experience back in 2004. It's like, oh my gosh, I think this is what I've been wanting since I was a towheaded boy wandering the woods. And, and so I love that on so many levels. Alex, let me kind of lay out for the listeners the six facets of one.
- [44:57]
Alex Ferrari
Yes, please.
- [44:57]
Jeffrey Davis
And how they directly relate to this creative process. And even your experience in developing the podcast, it's so spot on what you've said. So I think of these six facets in three pairs, and the first pair are openness and curiosity. So openness is like what I call the wide sky facet of wonder. It is that radical openness to possibility that we want to foster, particularly at the onset of a new idea, a new chapter in our life, when we just want to be, you know, we want to reclaim that sort of wide eyed wonder that we were talking about. Curiosity is what I call the rebel facet of wonder, because curiosity is very proactive at seeking new knowledge. It's, it's, it's when you, you know, you got really curious once you moved into the podcast idea. Like, okay, what's the best equipment? And like, who could I really get on here? Could I just set up a minimal viable experiment to, like, see if this is going to work? All of that experimentation is part of curiosity. Curiosity also allows us to question the status quo, which makes it really important these days to foster true curiosity. So openness and curiosity are foundational to, to us being able to approach our life and work more creatively than reactively. Really important distinction there. The second pair are bewilderment and hope. And this pair, so bewilderment is what I call the deep woods facet of wonder. This is when we get into that world of confusion. It's what much of the globe, frankly, has experienced for the past year and a half, since 2020, is a state of bewilderment. And if we're fortunate and we can put language to it, then we're like, okay, this is a normal state. Can I actually fertilize this confusion? Instead of pathologizing, can I bring some curiosity forward into the deep woods? And then there's hope. Hope is the rainbow facet of wonder. It's proactive. It is when we set our sights on just sometimes small near future goals. And it's where we do deliberately daydream to foresee a better possible future. And I saw a lot of literature on this during the pandemic that was actually advocating some deliberate daydreaming. Those two facets, bewilderment and hope, are essential for us. Developing resilience without hardening up, grit without burning out. Really, really important for us in our well being, our mental and physical wellbeing. The third facets are connection and admiration. These, I think, may be the most important facets of wonder for our times. And they're not what we typically associate with wonder. But connection is what I call the flock facet. It speaks to our yearning to sync up with one another on a film crew. Right. And a dance troupe and a band, or just on a team of collaborators. And it's where we really can experience wonder with one another when we're feeling supported and buoyed and encouraged among one another. Admiration is the mirror facet of wonder and the actual root, the Latin root of the word. I'm kind of a word geek. The root of the word admiration is mira, which is Latin for wonder. It is a part of wonder. And it's kind of like what you feel for Spielberg is what I would call maybe a surprising love for someone's excellence in craft. Sure. In character, or both. Right.
- [48:41]
Alex Ferrari
It's like, wow.
- [48:42]
Jeffrey Davis
And it wakes something up in you that's like, oh, I want to show up a little better in my character.
- [48:53]
Alex Ferrari
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [48:56]
I
This live check in is brought to you by State Farm Pol. Quel bienestad de familia. Tambien merce protecion. Okay, real talk. I'm about to become a dad again. And wow. It hits different the second time. Hi, I'm Umar Valderrama, and I've done, you know, I've done the red carpets, the long days on set and all that, but nothing prepares you for that moment when you're building a crib and you realize you're building a future. Familia is everything to me. The laughs, the chaos, the unconditional love, but also the pressure. La responsabilidad. If you're stepping into something big right now, starting a family, getting engaged, moving cities, you're not alone. Take one step at a time. Why breathe? Be present and lean into the people. They've got your back. It is fruta. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.
- [49:46]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Feel good and look good this summer with savings on your personal care favorites and earn four times points now through September 9th. Shop in store or online for items like Dollar Shave Club razors, hydro Silk razors and Edge shave gel. Plus some favorite brands like Tampax, Pearl, Depend and Poise to earn four times points to use for later discounts on groceries or gas. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [50:19]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.
- [50:21]
Jeffrey Davis
Say hi, Dan.
- [50:22]
Dan Morgan
Hey, how's it going today?
- [50:23]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [50:26]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [50:33]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently. It said 20 billion one. 20 billion is an insane number.
- [50:41]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [50:54]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [50:59]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.
- [51:09]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow.
- [51:09]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [51:14]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.
- [51:20]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show. That's, that's, that's an under. That's a very big understatement, my friend.
- [51:30]
Jeffrey Davis
Too, possibly for you and your experience with your podcast is that it's possible that you have, and I mean this in a very genuine way, perhaps you've seen yourself differently, too in the past year and a half. Like the bracket, some things you're like, whoa, like, I can show up and do. Like, why are people coming to me? Like, there must be something they're seeing in me, too, that all has to do with the facet of admiration. So I hope that was helpful to you and your and your listeners.
- [51:57]
Alex Ferrari
No, it was. Without question. I mean, yeah, I mean, to show up with love that you said that. To show up a little bit, a little bit better. I promise you with Mr. Spielberg shows up, it's going to be a different conversation, no offense, obviously, with anybody else I speak to. But, you know, I'm not. The funny thing is, I'm not the only one. I mean, there's a generation, you know, of people who were raised with his films, and he's one of the most famous human beings on the planet, who's not a star in front of the camera. He's. He's, you know, he's like Hitchcock. You know, he's like one of those names that people know. So, you know, as for. I mean, and in every field, there's that, you know, there. I mean, and every few in the tech world, you want to talk to, you know, Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or, you know, any of these guys who start up these. So it's. There's always somebody for everybody.
- [52:44]
Jeffrey Davis
Can I. Can I up the Spielberg thing you were talking about? Like, you didn't have a word for wonder. I recognize, too, that before I had a word for it, when I look at the people I was drawn toward from my teenage hood, like, why was I drawn toward these musicians? What was it when I look at Spielberg that I was drawn to starting in the 90s, I recognize it was that element of wonder in his films. And I realized when I was really looking into Spielberg's history in his films, I thought, oh, or I remembered when I was a boy, I saw on television his first student film, duel with, I think, Sam Weaver. Yeah.
- [53:26]
Alex Ferrari
It wasn't. It wasn't a student film, but, yes, it was. It was his first. It was his. It was a TV movie. It was a TV movie that wasn't that. It wasn't supposed to go anywhere, but it was so good, they released it theatrically because everyone was like, what the hell's going on?
- [53:42]
Jeffrey Davis
What is that? Right. He completely just, like, changed everything. So. Yeah, but I do I, again, like, I do remember, like, my early fascination with Spielberg and later I realized it was like, oh, it was his sense of wonder. Right. Even. Even in Schindler's List. Right. That use of color was in part his sense of where's the wonder amidst this devastating story? Yeah.
- [54:10]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah. And even. Even in his later work that he's. There's still senses of wonder. Even in Lincoln. Even in Lincoln. And.
- [54:18]
Jeffrey Davis
Absolutely.
- [54:18]
Alex Ferrari
There's just a different. It's just, you know, it doesn't all have to be Peter Pan, you know, running around. It's really interesting. Why do you. I have to ask you, why do you think that wonder is looked at as being so childish that daydreaming is looked upon being so childish. I know specifically here in the States, but I think worldwide there's a little less variations depending on where country you're in and what culture you come from. But generally speaking, you know, I don't know at least of any cultures or countries that are just like, you know what you need to go do. You need to just go daydream. And you need like, that's not something that happens. Why is it.
- [54:55]
Jeffrey Davis
Look, you know, I've spent some time in India, and so, you know, and I referenced, like, there wasn't a lot of science of wonder in 2004. So what did. I went to the philosophers, I went to the wisdom traditions of the east, and I went to the poets, and I've published collections of poetry. I went to all those sources because they, of course, were advocating wonder in many ways, because they got it, they understood it. There are certain cultures that actually will promote at least a wondrous state of being more so than others. I can speak specifically to the one that I have swum in all of my life and inherited, and that's this one specifically in the United States. And part of the cultural heritage that we've inherited, whether we're part of this lineage or not, it in part goes back to, in this country to a sort of Scottish Irish heritage related to the Protestant work ethic. Part of that lineage, you know, considered idleness, the devil's playground.
- [56:05]
Alex Ferrari
Idle hand. Idle hands is a devil's.
- [56:08]
Jeffrey Davis
The devil's playground, right? And so just. And so I dug into this more. In Scotland in the 17th century, there was a. An illness called the wonders that was characterized by sort of numbness and just sort of gazing, sort of being in a stupor. This is part of what we've inherited, like you can imagine, right? A boy out in the field and he's daydreaming, and they're like, oh, look at that lad is not going to amount to anything, right? But he turns out to be an innovator who makes may make labor conditions even better, you know, a generation later from his daydreaming. So in this culture too. So I've been looking at the history of work as I'm, you know, we're questioning the nature of work now at tracking wonder. Been looking at the history of work and a fellow named. His last name was Taylor in the turn of the 20th century, started to be one of the first organizational consultants, so to speak, who later influenced Henry Ford and others. He was. He was determined. He Gave a talk in 1903 where he's like, you know, there's hardly a laborer alive, you know, in this country who's not always trying to scheme or figure out some way to make it appear as if he's working more than he actually is. So, you know, then there was this whole perspective that, like, to be a successful company or a successful business, you needed to treat human beings as labors of unit. As units of labor. Right. And your virtues were discipline, control, and speed. Right. And so then the measurement of a worker's value was all related to efficiency and speed. Right. Not daydreaming, not having Google's 20% off.
- [57:55]
Alex Ferrari
To, like, figure out Innovate. Innovate project.
- [57:59]
Jeffrey Davis
Right? So this is all of what we've inherited and certainly what we're questioning. It's certainly in part what the pandemic and other elements of the past year and a half have started to make us question. But I can't help but tell you a recent story related to film that illustrates this point and part of its heritage in Ireland. And part of my heritage is from Ireland and Scotland, so apologies to any Irish listeners, but they'll appreciate it, I think. So. My daughters and I recently watched two films last week, both set in Ireland. One was Billy Elliot and the other was Sing Street. Yeah. You know, those both, right? They're both set in Ireland. They're both like, you know, and they're both of a. Billy Elliot is a great illustration, right? He's in Ireland, his father and his older brother involved in the labor wars, you know, trying to get better conditions for labor. And Billy, here's Billy, he's wanting to dance. To dance and to dance. Ballet, of all things. Ballet, Ball. Ballet. Right.
- [59:02]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah.
- [59:03]
Jeffrey Davis
And so. But it is a beautiful story of just what we're talking about, a culture that does not support wonder. And yet the most beautiful aspect of that story, of course, is how the father ultimately recognizes the beauty of his son's dancing and why it is how he really needs to flourish. So it's a long way of answering this question, right, that we. We just inherited some of this paradigm, right, that. That reduces wonder to child's play. The other thing is what we have to do, I would argue, Alex, is then test ourselves and our own minds and disrupt our own default assumptions about wonder, about ourselves and about each other, right? To just kind of check in and say, yeah, what is my. What is my view of wonder? Like what? Like, could I actually see some parts of myself that are really hungering to be more Creative, more imaginative, more caring in my relationships. And, you know, have I kind of boxed myself in over the past 10, 15, 20 years. Right. To kind of disrupt my own default assumptions and not just blame the culture I've inherited.
- [60:20]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's, that's the thing. We. There's, Look, I. You could imagine me speaking to my father, who's a Cuban, who's a Cuban man who worked in a factory, and I'm like, hey, I'm going into the film business. And it's like, what? And to this day vaguely understands what I do 25 plus years later. And he's been on set with me and he's like, I don't know what he does, but everyone listens to him on set.
- [60:45]
Jeffrey Davis
So it's a great example. Right. And so many people I've interviewed too. Right. Who often come from first generation immigrant families.
- [60:55]
Alex Ferrari
Right.
- [60:56]
Jeffrey Davis
Face that, that conflict. Right? Like, wait, we didn't come here to the United States for you to become a philosopher or, you know, or a musician or something like that.
- [61:06]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy. I mean, if you look at, I mean, look, Steve Jobs, I mean, who created one of the biggest company in the world. World. Who arguably was very full of wonder. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [61:19]
I
This live check in is brought to you by State Farm. Okay, real talk. I'm about to become a dad again. And, wow, it hits different the second time. Hi, I'm Wilmar Valderrama and I've done, you know, I've done the red carpets, the long days on set and all that, but nothing prepares you for that moment when you're building a crib and you realize you're building a future. Familia is everything to me. The laughs, the chaos, the unconditional love, but also the pressure. La responsabilidad. If you're stepping into something big right now, starting a family, getting engaged, moving cities, you're not alone. Take one step at a time. Why breathe? Be present and lean into the people. They've got your back. It is fruta. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.
- [62:09]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is hot out there this summer, right? But don't sweat it. We got tons of ways to save on your family's favorite personal care items to keep yourself feeling cool and smelling good. Now through September 9th, earn four times points when you shop for items from your favorite brands like Right Guard raw Sugar, Dove Soft soap, and Olay Then use your points for discounts on groceries or gas on future purchases. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [62:42]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.
- [62:44]
Jeffrey Davis
Say hi, Dan.
- [62:45]
Dan Morgan
Hey, how's it going today?
- [62:46]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [62:49]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [62:55]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion won. 20 million is an insane number.
- [63:04]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [63:16]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [63:22]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247365.
- [63:31]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow.
- [63:32]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [63:36]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.
- [63:43]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show. And you know, he complicated gentleman to say the least. But he definitely had vision and was tapped into stuff that nobody else was. No one else saw a lot of the stuff that he saw. And he saw it five, six steps before anybody else did.
- [64:02]
Jeffrey Davis
I mean, one of Jobs most common consistent muses was the 18th century poet William Blake. And Blake, you know, I can't recite it, unfortunately right now. I used to a long time ago. But, you know, Blake and some of the poems that Jobs would carry around were sort of like being able to see eternity in an hour. Right. You know, Blake just had these visionary poems, really being able to see wonder. Blake would talk about how most of us human beings experience reality through narrow caverns.
- [64:42]
Alex Ferrari
Right.
- [64:42]
Jeffrey Davis
But we occasionally can break out of those caverns of reality to experience infinity in the present. Yeah.
- [64:51]
Alex Ferrari
And the other book that he had, the only book he had on his iPhone, an iPad, when he died, was Autobiography of a Yogi, you know, by Yogananda. So that's. I mean, talk about wonder. That book will. That book will mess you up in the best way possible without question. Now, in your book, you have some examples of people using wonder to kind of build Lives or to do extraordinary things.
- [65:20]
Jeffrey Davis
In every chapter. So there are six facets of wonder that I laid out for you. There is an UN chapter. There is an UN chapter that we intentionally did not number that. Actually, the designer surprised me. It sounds true. And published Sideways. There is a Sideways chapter where you actually have to be the book Sideways. Right. They did just some incredible work design wise. So that's the chapter on your young genius and your young genius genius. I talk about Arianna Huffington. In other chapters, another one I talk about Tracy Fullerton, who's an amazing innovator in video games. Nick Cave. I recount part of that story in the chapter on hope. But there are both what I would call exemplary geniuses of creativity whose stories I tell in a variety of industries and everyday geniuses of creativity. And these are people in our international community at tracking wonder. They're people I've worked with. They're people like Evelyn asher, who is 80 years old, who is still working hard, and she reclaimed her young genius just a few years shy of 80 years old to completely revive her business. Right? And it's those everyday geniuses of creativity over the years who have taught me so much and about the real applications and the real necessity of wonder in our times.
- [66:50]
Alex Ferrari
Now, what are some tools or exercises that creatives, you know, filmmakers, screenwriters, anybody listening can. Can tap into, to use to tap into that. That sense of wonder. If you've become that angry and bitter person, how do you get out of the darkness? How do you see the light? Jeffrey?
- [67:08]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow. Okay.
- [67:09]
Alex Ferrari
No pressure, no pressure. How do you come towards the light, Jeffrey?
- [67:14]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. So actually, every chapter also includes some specific tools, and I tried to be very generous in that aspect as well. And we can start, actually sort of foundational practice is what I call dose D, O, S, E that then we can apply very specifically. So D is detecting your default pattern of thinking about something or of reacting to a surprise or challenge. Right? So your default ways of trying to solve a problem or advance a business or think about your podcast. Can you detect what that default pattern is? Can you detect your confirmation bias? And can you just kind of feel, right, so O stands for open up, pause, and just feel that reaction or that default pattern. And then S stands for seek out wonder. Seek out some different possibility. And I'll give you some examples in a moment. And then E stands for extend, which means to really appreciate and reflect upon whatever possibility or moment of wonder or surprise that you actively sought out. So this can go to the level of how you Shape your days for more wonder and openness on a daily basis. Your default pattern in the morning. Many people I know check their phones first thing in the morning for text and emails. It's like a default addictive thing that's detecting the pattern. And when you notice that, just like, detect it, open up to it. Like, oh, how does this feel? Like, not so great. Like, it puts me in a state of reactivity and I'm just allowing other things to stimulate my curiosity instead of me directing it. So could I just feel that and then seek out something different? Instead of checking my phone every morning, could I just actually get up and step outside for three minutes and look up at the sky for just a moment and see how that helps me feel? And then could I extend and like, just write three minutes about what that experience was like? So you're shifting your default patterns. This is core to being a grownup and. Right. That is really fostering wonder. There are other things you can do then to disrupt your patterns. Morning, afternoon, and evening. We lay out some of what we call wonder interventions for teams and for individuals. So during the day, you and I, I'm sure, can work really hard and just get stuck. It's not really flow. It's just like, work hard and get through your to do list. Right. That's not real flow. So we know cognitively and psychologically we can only focus for so long, optimally. So to work well, we have to break better. So how could we break better? So we have teams actually take wonder walks for five minutes. The science out of Stanford's overwhelming for why this benefits your creativity and why it reboots your focus. So is there something you could do to just kind of disrupt your work patterns? Could you take a break and just have a curiosity conversation with somebody to open up in the evening rather than default and check out and numb out? That turns out to be Alex. When you are tired and fatigued in the afternoon or evening, one of your best opportunities to generate new and novel useful ideas. So rather than numbing out or checking out, it's a time to maybe take that meandering walk, but also to reflect on, okay, what were three good highlights today? I can tell you at the end of this of today, this conversation I've had with you will actually be a highlight. It's been very surprising, I anticipated, which I've loved. I just love being in the open moment with you. Really. I had no idea, going to talk about Spielberg and so forth. Right. And so I will look back at the end of this day. And I will actually write a few things about this experience. Why? Because that reflection will be. Will increase the meaning in my life. We make meaning in part by reflecting on these sorts of moments. And so we have teams do this sort of activity as well to recognize the meaning that happens sometimes in the margins of our work that help us work better.
- [71:47]
Alex Ferrari
There's. There's one thing and I wanted to just go a little bit deeper on, on a certain thing that, because we're talking about creativity. And I always love asking high performing individuals who are creative in every field, you know, that they, in whatever they do, where it comes from. Like, where does this creativity come from? Where is that thing? And I was talking to someone who, on, on my other show that had the. I love this story. It is. I keep repeating the story because it's so beautiful. He was heartbroken. He moved. He. He went on a job to India in the 60s, 63 if I'm not mistaken. And his girlfriend broke up with him while he was over there. He was heartbroken. He didn't know what to do. And someone said, you should go try some meditation. And he goes, and he goes to, to this ashram where this yogi is teaching meditation. And he gets to the front door and he's like, I'm here to learn meditation. I'm sorry, the ashram's closed. He goes, why is the ashram closed? He goes, the Beatles are here. And I'm like. And he's like, what? He's like, yeah, the Beatles are here and we're close. He's like. And he tells him his story. He's like, look, I can't let you in now. I want you to just stay. I'll bring you food and you could sleep in one of our tents outside the door. And he did. He stayed there for eight days until finally, like on the eighth day, he just, he would just stay there because he had nowhere else to go and he was obviously needing help. They let him in. They go, come in, I'll teach you how to meditate. They taught him how to meditate. They taught him TM meditation. And then right after, he was full of this amazing, you know, euphoria after meditating for the first time. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [73:39]
Freddie Prinze Jr.
This stress check, AKA friendly reminder that your hobbies matter is brought to you by State Farm because you deserve to lose yourself in the stuff that brings you joy. Here's mine. Painting my tabletop battle miniatures. Yeah, seriously. After a long day, I grab a brush, pop in some music and just get into it and there's no wrong way to do it. It helps me clear my head, slow down and just breathe. But it works. Big stress mini warriors, total reset, no pressure. Just paint. Creativity and a little reminder of what makes me happy. Some people bake, some people garden. Me, I paint warriors with interesting tech. And guess what? It works. You don't have to be good at your hobby, you just have to enjoy it. So carve out that time, tune out the noise and do something that's just for you. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.
- [74:32]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Feel good and look good this summer with savings on your personal care favorites and earn four times points now through September 9th. Shop in store or online for items like Dollar Shave Club razors, hydro silk razors and edge shave gel. Plus some favorite brands like Tampax, Pearl, depend and poise to earn four times points to use for later discounts on groceries or gas. Hurry in. These deals are gone. Offer ends September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [75:05]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.
- [75:07]
Jeffrey Davis
Say hi, Dan. Hey.
- [75:08]
Dan Morgan
How's it going today?
- [75:09]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [75:12]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [75:18]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion one. 20 million is an insane number.
- [75:27]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [75:39]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [75:44]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to to take your call. 24, 7, 365.
- [75:54]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow.
- [75:55]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Dan Morgan from Morgan & Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [75:59]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.
- [76:06]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show. He's going out and he goes go meet the others at the table. And he's walking and there's John, Paul, George and Ringo with his wives and, and, and girlfriends. And as he's Walking, he's still in a blissful state, but his heart rate starting to. Starting to go faster and faster and faster. And he's starting to realize as he's walking towards it, like, oh, my God, it's the Beatles. And for people listening, The Beatles in 1963, 64, were the biggest human, the most famous human beings on the planet. Everybody knew who they were. And he was about to go sit down with them at a table privately. And I never forgot what he said. He said the little voice inside of his head, and you could say wherever it came from, but the little voice inside of his head said, hey, calm down. They're human beings. They fart and are scared of the dark completely.
- [77:09]
Jeffrey Davis
And they all think they're imposters, right?
- [77:12]
Alex Ferrari
So. But what I found out from talking to him was when he was talking to. Because he actually saw them for. I think he stayed there for like eight, nine days and saw them writing like, hey Jude and like an album of theirs. I forgot which album was. I think it was after sergeant Pepper, I'm not sure, but it was. It wasn't the White Album. It might have been the white part of the White app, I don't remember. But it was like these amazing songs. And he was just there taking pictures of them. Not that he was a professional photographer. He just happened to have a camera. He was taking pictures of him. And he noticed something about their openness, their sense of wonder. I mean, being there meditating on a daily basis with, with this, with this yogi. And that's a sense of wonder. But anyone I've talked to who's been around, Sir Paul McCartney or Ringo Starr or any of them say the same thing, there is this lightness of energy around them. There is this openness to ideas that they were able because, I mean, you can't argue with the output of what the Beatles did when they, all four of them were in flow for. For a long, long time, they tapped into something that consistently, for decades, for a couple decades at least, that was the magical part of it. So for. Again, this is a long question. I just wanted to tell you that story, but I always wonder, and I'd love to hear what you think about where you think your creativity comes from. Where, where that thing when you're writing the book and you lose yourself in the writing process and you don't even recognize the words that are coming out of. Of your fingers. Where that comes from, in your opinion?
- [78:59]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, so I actually want to demystify flow and creativity a little bit because a lot of my process in writing this book was like pacing, talking to myself, sort of like knocking my head up against the wall. All of which I would describe as part of flow. Okay, so inspiration, the root of which is like to be breathed in. To breathe. Right. And, and so, yeah, so your question was like, what are the origins of.
- [79:37]
Alex Ferrari
Well, the muse, like the Greeks use. The Greeks used the muse, that the muse would come in and whisper something in your ear. But there's people that I've continued to study over my work over the years that, and I've been studying high performers since I was in high school. I've been reading books about. And all of them seem, even scientists seem to be able to tap into that, well, effortlessly for a period of time. Not many do it for their entire life, but for a period of time, moments, they're able to tap into that. What is, what is that thing?
- [80:13]
Jeffrey Davis
I teach a course that like 8,000 people have taken around the world called deepen your focus and flow at work. Right. So it's incremental. I don't know what the source of that sort of spark is because I think it can be so defeating for people who don't necessarily experience that to sort of chase after it. But I will say this. If it's true that all wisdom begins in wonder, all true knowledge begins in not knowing. I really do think that wonder actually begins in our human relationship with the natural world. I would contend that it is our human capacity to be attuned to and to actually perceive patterns in nature, including Steve Jobs and others, that actually gives us some neuronal, psychological, soulful, spiritual networking. Right. To be able then, in those seemingly magical moments, to come up with some new inspired moment that then we can act upon. Yeah, yeah. Now for me, over the years and the people that I work with who are high performers, they ultimately learn to set up conditions to be able to create at will, to retrieve their childhood at will. You know what I mean? And that can be so individual. How do you work with the constraints of your, your life circumstances? But how do you shape time? How do you redirect your attention? How do you create 90 minute blocks where you like, everything else is gone and your mind is fully focused and in flow, though that requires usually some setting up conditions to make the muse appear at will. Does that make sense?
- [82:12]
Alex Ferrari
It makes, it makes all the sense in the world.
- [82:14]
Jeffrey Davis
I was kind of approaching it both from, you know, more of a pragmatic, dramatic. Yeah, really help people like actually know that it's possible for them to create at will, you know, it's imperative. Yeah.
- [82:28]
Alex Ferrari
And the thing is, too, that. And everyone listening, I want you to understand, is like, I'm not saying that you have to tap into Steven Spielberg's well or Steve Jobs as well. Those are their wells there. That's their flow. That's their. That's the thing that they get that they're able to tap into. You need to find out where yours is and how to tap in in yours. And now we're getting really deep. But sometimes Spielberg said this so beautifully, and I think I have a print story too, that illustrates this as well. Where Spielberg says ideas float around the universe and when they come, they'll come to you. If you don't do something with it, it will leave you and go somewhere else. And that he's had so many times where an idea has come to him, he's like, nah, I won't do that. And like a week or two later, someone's announcing that exact same idea. Like, why is it all of a sudden we had Armageddon, Deep Impact. All these movies show up at the same time. Why did you know the exact same sort of volcano movies all of a sudden became hot? Or there was something that popped in all of us. And Prince heard this wonderful story about the late, great Prince who said he would get. He had.
- [83:40]
Jeffrey Davis
He.
- [83:41]
Alex Ferrari
I don't know if you know this or not. He has 8,000 songs done that were in a vault through his life that never got released. Ever, ever got released. So he has an album up until the year 3000. He'll release a new album up until the year 3000. He will be releasing music. That's who Prince was. But he had people on call all the time. When the muse hit him and he one day called up one of his backup singers and said, hey, hey, what are you doing? He's like, prince, it's three o' clock in the morning. Because, yeah, I need you. I need you to come down. We need to record. And she's like, but. But it's three o' clock in the morning. She's like, I got to get this out, because if I don't. Michael Jackson's gonna take. Is such a beautiful way of looking at. You want to talk about someone who have wondered, Jesus, look at Prince's career.
- [84:34]
Jeffrey Davis
But people like Prince and. And others, they pay attention to their innate capacity for those sort of goldfish ideas. We all have that capacity, and we all can retrieve that capacity. And there are different tools. Meditation being one of them.
- [84:53]
Alex Ferrari
Huge.
- [84:54]
Jeffrey Davis
Constantly, you know, every day writing in the morning just to see what is in that murky mind. These are all ways of learning to be in wonder with one's own mind. It's a mystery. The mind is. And these people like Prince and Spielberg and others have honed the ability to pay attention to and capture those ideas, those inspirations. That's the difference. We all have them. There are goldfish floating past the aquarium of our awareness constantly, all day long. But have we set up conditions to actually observe them and capture those goldfish?
- [85:35]
Alex Ferrari
Oh, my God. That's an amazing analogy. I've never. There's such a visual analogy that you're absolutely right. Most of us walk through life seeing the fish go by, and there's a handful of us who've been able to go, oh, no, no one sees that. Let me just grab that.
- [85:50]
Jeffrey Davis
I'm sure it now. Because it's going to swim away before I forget it.
- [85:54]
Alex Ferrari
IPhones. Okay, we'll do iPhones. Jurassic Park. Okay, that'll be good. We'll be right after a word from our sponsor.
- [86:03]
Freddie Prinze Jr.
This stress check, AKA friendly reminder that your hobbies matter, is brought to you by State Farm because you deserve to lose yourself in the stuff that brings you joy. Here's mine. Painting my tabletop battle miniatures. Yeah, seriously. After a long day, I grab a brush, pop in some music and just get into it. And there's no wrong way to do it. It helps me clear my head, slow down and just breathe. But it works. Big stress mini warriors, total reset. No pressure, just paint. Creativity and a little reminder of what makes me happy. Some people bake, some people garden. Me, I paint warriors with interesting tech. And guess what? It works. You don't have to be good at your hobby. You just have to enjoy it. So carve out that time, tune out the noise, and do something that's just for you. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.
- [86:56]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Feel good and look good this summer with savings on your personal care favorites and earn four times points now through September 9th. Shop in store or online for items like Dollar Shave Club razors, hydro silk razors and Edge shave gel. Plus some favorite brands like Tampax, Pearl, Depend and Poise to earn four times points to use for later discounts on groceries or gas. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer ends September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [87:29]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.
- [87:31]
Jeffrey Davis
Say hi, Dan.
- [87:32]
Dan Morgan
Hey, how's it going today?
- [87:33]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [87:36]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [87:43]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion. Wonderful. 20 million is an insane number.
- [87:51]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north. Probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [88:04]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [88:09]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 24 7, 365.
- [88:19]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow.
- [88:19]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [88:23]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit for the people.com for an office near you.
- [88:30]
Alex Ferrari
And now back to the show. You know, things, you know, because how is it that nobody on the planet thought of an iPhone?
- [88:41]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, right.
- [88:42]
Alex Ferrari
Nobody on the planet thought of an iPhone and had the. The biggest and the brightest minds in the world thinking about stuff like that.
- [88:48]
Jeffrey Davis
And when, of course, before Apple, there was somebody who had thought of the iPhone and what, what, you know, Jobs was really good at was coming up in second and then doing best what somebody had innovated actually before him.
- [89:01]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah, right. But, oh, yeah, I mean, the Mac Os, I mean, from Xerox, of course, the famous story, but the ability to take that goldfish and then repackage it and rebuild it and redo something with it. And there was a kernel of an idea there, but how many people walked by the Xerox labs and saw that technology? And actually the owners of Xerox saw that technology and said that inspiration is.
- [89:28]
Jeffrey Davis
Only about 3% of the whole creative process.
- [89:30]
Alex Ferrari
Correct.
- [89:31]
Jeffrey Davis
Another 97% requires ongoing experiences of wonder to move you through from that inspiration. To like, is this going to work? Who do we bring on board? You see what I'm saying? It's like, that's like, that's what requires ongoing experiences of wonder to get you through all of the hell that I know they experienced. And finally making the iPhone work.
- [89:56]
Alex Ferrari
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And as a writer, I found that. And I've talked to so many writers over the years and authors, for everyone listening who wants to write, wants to be a Creative in whatever field. They. Yeah, they. They are able to turn on the muddy water and they have to let the mud come through first. And you just have to write and write and write and write and write. Because if not, once you have that, then the mud starts and the water starts clearing up little by little, and.
- [90:31]
Jeffrey Davis
Eventually you can drink it completely. Yes. It's what Annie Lamott calls the sfd or the shitty first draft. You just have to.
- [90:38]
Alex Ferrari
Gotta get it out. Got to get it out. Got to get it out.
- [90:41]
Jeffrey Davis
So true.
- [90:42]
Alex Ferrari
Now, I'm going to ask you a few questions, ask all of my guests. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film, in the film industry, in your industry, or in life?
- [90:53]
Jeffrey Davis
The longest lesson to learn. That's the question.
- [90:55]
Alex Ferrari
What is the longest lesson that you've taken you to learn? Like, the universe kept beating you with it and you were like, no, patience. That's mine.
- [91:03]
Jeffrey Davis
That's it.
- [91:04]
Alex Ferrari
That's mine.
- [91:05]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah. Yeah.
- [91:06]
Alex Ferrari
It's taking me. I'm still learning that. I'm still learning that lesson.
- [91:10]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah.
- [91:12]
Alex Ferrari
What advice would you have for somebody who wants to find that wonder, wants to be able to connect to that creativity and is having trouble, I would.
- [91:22]
Jeffrey Davis
Say, recognize that wonder is the most pervasive yet evasive emotional experience we have. It's all around. And the first thing you could do is actually relax your eyes from hunting so much information to step away from a screen and actually just let your eyes rest and pause and then gaze upon something very ordinary right around you for just a few breaths, just to really let your eyes gaze. And then maybe praise, maybe just find the words of praise for that doorknob or the window pane, whatever it is, really, I could almost promise you if you do that, if you pause, gaze and praise, something's going to shift for you and you say, oh, yeah, actually, there are moments of wonder that pass by me potentially every day.
- [92:12]
Alex Ferrari
Jeffrey, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for writing the book and making me think about wonder a little bit more than I normally do and actually being able to put a name to what I've been feeling these last years. And hopefully I can tap a little bit more into that myself. But thank you so much for what you do. And where can people find the book and find out more work about what you do?
- [92:36]
Jeffrey Davis
Yeah, well, first, thank you, too, for the conversation. You really do illustrate that wonder can happen in a conversation is one of the most beautiful places where wonder can happen. So tracking wonder, reclaiming a life of meaning and possibility in a world obsessed with productivity comes out with sounds true probably by the time this airs. And you can go to trackingwonder.com and you you also can go to trackingwonder.com podcast bonus and we'll have a couple of bonuses for you.
- [93:06]
Alex Ferrari
Awesome Jeffrey. Thank you again my friend. And be well.
- [93:09]
Jeffrey Davis
Thank you Alex. Take care.
- [93:12]
Alex Ferrari
I want to thank Jeffrey so much for coming on the show and dropping his Wonder bombs. Thank you again so much Jeffrey. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, including how to get his new book Tracking Wonder, head over to the show notes at next levelsoul.com forward/021 and if you like this content and want to go deeper down the spiritual rabbit hole, just head over to next LevelSoul TV and we have movies, series, original shows, live events, and of course all of Next Level Soul completely ad free. Again, just head over to next LevelSoul TV available on Apple, Roku, Amazon Fire, Android and iOS and Android phones. And if you've only been listening to these episodes and want to watch these amazing conversations, head over to our YouTube channel at nextlevelsoul.com forward/YouTube. Thank you so much for listening and as I always say, trust the journey. It's there to teach you. I'll see you next time.
- [94:16]
Freddie Prinze Jr.
This stress check, AKA friendly reminder that your hobbies matter is brought to you by State Farm because you deserve to lose yourself in the stuff that brings you joy. Here's mine. Painting my Tabletop Battle Miniatures. Yeah, seriously. After a long day, I grab a brush, pop in some music and just get into it. And there's no wrong way to do it. It helps me clear my head, slow down and just breathe. But it works. Big Stress Mini Warriors. Total reset. No pressure pressure. Just paint. Creativity and a little reminder of what makes me happy. Some people bake, some people garden. Me, I paint warriors with interesting tech. And guess what? It works. You don't have to be good at your hobby, you just have to enjoy it. So carve out that time, tune out the noise and do something that's just for you. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.
- [95:09]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Feel good and look good this summer with savings on your personal care favorites and earn four times points now through September 9th. Shop in store or online for items like Dollar Shave Club razors, hydro Silk Razors and Edge Shave Gel. Plus some favorite brands like Tampax, Pearl, Depend and Poise to earn four times points to use for later discounts on groceries or gas. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [95:42]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.
- [95:44]
Jeffrey Davis
Say hi, Dan.
- [95:45]
Dan Morgan
Hey, how's it going today?
- [95:46]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [95:49]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [95:55]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion. 120 billion is an insane number.
- [96:04]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [96:16]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [96:21]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.
- [96:31]
Jeffrey Davis
Wow.
- [96:32]
Podcast Host (possibly Alex Ferrari or another host)
Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [96:36]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com or an office near you.
- [96:40]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is hot out there this summer, right? But don't sweat it. We got tons of ways to save on your family's favorite personal care items to keep yourself feeling cool and smelling good. Now through September 9th, earn four times points when you shop for items from your favorite brands like Right Guard, Raw Sugar, Dove Soft Soap and Olay. Then use your points for discounts on groceries or gas on future purchases. Offer ends September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [97:11]
Dan Morgan
Chances are you've been to the doctor recently and you probably handed over your insurance, your ID and even your Social Security number. Your doctor is just one of many places that has your personal info. And if any of them accidentally expose your details, you could be at risk for identity theft. Lifelock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off terms apply.