Healing Through Loss with Julie Cluff

Summary

Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari

Episode: Healing Through Loss with Julie Cluff

Date: July 7, 2026
Guest: Julie Cluff
Main theme: Transforming profound loss, grief, and spiritual evolution after tragedy

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deeply moving conversation between host Alex Ferrari and spiritual teacher, grief coach, and former Mormon, Julie Cluff. Julie bravely shares her story of losing two of her children in a tragic car accident, how she coped with the guilt and grief, and her journey through trauma, faith deconstruction, and spiritual awakening. The conversation expands into spiritual frameworks of understanding loss, soul contracts, healing, near-death-like experiences, mediumship, and connecting with guides and angels. Julie also offers a channelled session with her Council of Wisdom, providing perspective on grief, the afterlife, and our soul’s journey.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Julie’s Background and Life Before the Loss

• Raised in the Mormon (LDS) church—"born into it," lived and served in the faith for six decades.
• Volunteered extensively but was not in paid church employment.
• Describes herself as “all in” with her spirituality, using Mormonism as her framework for understanding life.

The Accident and Immediate Aftermath 

[06:00] Mother’s Day 2007—The Tragic Accident

• Julie recounts falling asleep at the wheel with three of her youngest children while driving from Houston, TX, to visit grandparents.
• Despite feeling alert, she drifted off, causing the SUV to roll across the median. Julie lost consciousness briefly; her children were thrown from the car.
• Two of her children, Carrie (10) and David (8), died; her son James (12) survived with severe leg injuries.
• Julie describes the chaos, shock, and otherworldly aspects of the moment—“as the car started to roll, I heard a voice in my head: ‘bring your arm in.’” (09:25, Julie)
• After regaining consciousness, she was overcome with guilt: “I was screaming, I killed my kids.” (12:00, Julie)

Mystical and Spiritual Elements in Grief

[12:13] Out-of-Body Experiences & Messages from Spirit

• Later realized she had a brief out-of-body experience while knocked unconscious, joining her children and being able to say goodbye, as well as glimpsing a “Spirit Council.”
• While hospitalized, entered states of peace and calm, feeling “accompanied in a meadow by Jesus” (now referred to as Yeshua), with a deep telepathic knowing, alternating between “war movie” trauma and “love story” serenity. (14:00, Julie)
• “I often tell people, it’s almost as if I was asleep before this accident, I died the day of the accident and woke up three years later.” (16:22, Julie)

The Depths of Grief: Guilt, Darkness, and Support

[20:01] Navigating Self-Hate and Support

• Grief compounded by personal guilt—"It was all my fault. There's no other explanation." (20:09, Julie)
• Julie discusses intense support from her community and “miracles in the darkness”—for example, the hospital’s top surgeon was on hand unexpectedly to save her son's leg. (21:06, Julie)
• “Everything that I needed to heal was in the moment of the accident, it was there... In spirit, there is no time and space... In physicality, I needed time and space to integrate what I had experienced.” (23:01, Julie)

Processing Through & Beyond Religion

[24:40] The Role and Limitation of Faith in Healing

• Early Mormon framework provided comfort, but also caused “injuring and pain” as she processed the events, wrestling with teachings about suffering, guilt, and divine punishment.

• “The framework of Mormonism was very helpful to me in the beginnings of my healing process, but it was also very, very injuring as well.” (23:01, Julie)

• Alex and Julie discuss how organized religion gives foundational frameworks for meaning but can also inflict shame, guilt, and confusion if taken dogmatically.

• Julie shares situations that exacerbated her guilt—questioning if she was ‘being punished’ for driving on a Sunday, missing church, etc. (53:10, Julie)

The Concept of Soul Contracts and Pre-Life Agreements

[31:40] Why Do Souls Choose Hard Paths?

• Alex raises the idea of soul contracts: “Do you think you chose this path for your soul and your children's souls?” (33:33, Alex)

• Julie shares a profound message received weeks after the accident:

  • “I heard, they're right where they're supposed to be.”
  • “But why did it have to happen this way? …How would you have liked it to happen?” (39:16, Julie)

• Discussion of “exit points,” and the comfort this framework can give, regardless of whether we understand all the reasons.

  • “No one dies before their time… the exit point is a time when we could have passed and we didn’t.” (40:50, Julie)

• Spiritual growth is nonlinear and layered—“I don’t think we even totally grasp what that was for. I think we have this, like, kindergarten level of what that was for.” (33:17, Julie)

Finding Meaning, Miracles, and Rebirth

[54:41] Sudden Healing and Reawakening

• Three years after the accident, following a trip to Stonehenge and a special prayer, Julie experienced a “miraculous healing”—“within 24 hours, the light bulbs came on. I was a different person. The darkness just lifted." (54:41, Julie)
• “I woke up to the joy of life…a new awareness…it was just a clearing of the darkness.” (54:51, Julie)
• Emphasizes the importance of “making friends with grief”—grief is not something to banish or bypass; it is part of the healing process. (57:07, Julie)

From Wound to Purpose: Becoming a Grief Coach

[63:44] Turning Pain Into Service

• Messages and “nudges” from Spirit led Julie to realize she could help others:
  • “I could have died too. There’s a reason I’m still here. Why am I still here?”
  • A powerful affirmation from another inspired soul: “You’re supposed to do something with this.” (65:39, Julie)
• Became a grief coach, built programs, and developed a framework for healing and growth.
• Describes feeling the presence of figures like Elisabeth Kübler-Ross while designing courses on grief. (70:13, Julie)

Expansion: Mediumship and Channelling

[71:18] Mediumship & Relating Messages from the Departed

• As she worked with grieving clients, she felt presences of their loved ones, received messages (“I didn’t want her to feel guilty. This isn’t about her.”) but initially kept this secret due to religious and social pressures.
• After leaving the church (about three years ago), she embraced her gifts publicly:
  • “You are your highest authority... Discernment is something that needs to be taught more.” (90:40, Julie & Alex)
  • Started channeling a collective called the Council of Wisdom.

Navigating Religious Deconstruction & Community Responses

[75:00 - 79:44] Leaving Mormonism

• Describes the pain, grief, and relief of leaving religion and coming out publicly—
  • “When you leave a foundation, a religion, an organization... It’s a grief experience.”
  • "I knew that I couldn’t be authentic and still have people thinking this is what I was or what my belief system was."
  • Julie was met with both kindness and private messages from others who were similarly struggling silently.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “As the car started to roll, I heard a voice in my head: ‘bring your arm in.’ I don’t know how I had the consciousness to do that in the middle of that…” (09:25, Julie)
• “It’s almost as if I was asleep before this accident and I died the day of the accident; I woke up three years later.” (16:22, Julie)
• “Everything that I needed to heal was in the moment of the accident.” (23:01, Julie)
• “I had this clear, like, your life has changed forever.” (10:43, Julie)
• “This was their decision too. This was part of their plan too.” (47:43, Julie, on her surviving children’s experience)
• “You are your highest authority.” (90:40, Julie)
• “I could have died too. There’s a reason I’m still here. Why am I still here?” (63:44, Julie)
• “The days of the guru are gone... A true guru teaches you how to get back to the power that’s within you.” (89:26, Alex)

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Channeling the Council of Wisdom (Julie as Channel)

[93:31–109:31] Segment featuring live channeling
Key insights and direct answers (Julie/channel):

• On dealing with grief:

  • “The darkness is real. The experience is real. It is to be in the experience… to feel what you’re feeling, but also feel those moments of joy… Many will push the goodness away. We invite you to not push the goodness away…” (94:06, Council)

• Why do tragic things happen?

  • “You are having these experiences for your learning... for the growth of your spiritual development. Especially for those who are willing to look at their experiences that way...” (95:42, Council)

• What happens to the soul after death?

  • “It returns to the higher presence of that being, of that spirit… There is no soul that is alone. There are always spirits around them to assist in their transition... at the end all souls will be in what you might call heaven.” (97:46, Council)

• Is there a hell?

  • “There is no hell. There is a residual... of the earth that is taken with a soul when it leaves the earth... it is not an actual place or a destination as much as it is an experience for that particular soul.” (99:09, Council)

• What should people know?

  • “Each one of you have [a] spirit team. You have a spirit guide, spirit angels, ancestors, and family members and so much love and light... inviting you into the light.” (101:31, Council)

• On soul families:

  • “A soul group or a soul family is a group of souls that have made a bond, a contract, created a bond of energy in which they travel through space and time... They will choose a group to go in together... It is much like a play; some are on the stage, some are behind the scenes.” (105:21, Council)

• Final message:

  • “Enjoy your experiences here, do not take spirituality quite so seriously... Let go of any expectations that it’s going to look a certain way.” (108:27, Council)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:10]—Introduction to Julie and her Mormon background
• [06:00]—Julie recounts the 2007 car accident
• [10:28]—Spiritual experiences during and after the accident
• [20:01]—Navigating deep guilt and community support
• [23:01]—The dual nature of religion in grief
• [31:40]—Soul contracts, exit points, and life’s blueprint
• [54:41]—Turning point: miraculous inner healing years later
• [63:44]—Purpose rising from pain and starting her coaching journey
• [71:18]—Emergence of mediumship and channeled communications
• [75:00]—Journey of leaving Mormonism and public authenticity
• [93:31–109:31]—Live channeling with the Council of Wisdom
• [109:57]—Where to find Julie and her work

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Stylish Episode Takeaways

• Transformation from loss is possible: Julie’s journey illustrates how the darkest moments can eventually reveal new purpose and light when integrated with courage and openness.
• Grief is not a pathology but a passage. It must be felt and processed, not bypassed—healing involves validating both pain and fractured faith.
• Spiritual growth isn’t linear, nor unique to religion—expansion can happen concurrently (or even in tension) with inherited or organized beliefs.
• We are all supported and never alone in the journey—Julie’s story and her channeled guidance affirm the presence of spiritual assistance, soul families, and a guiding love even in the most challenging experiences.
• Authentic living means embracing your evolving truth—whether about faith, loss, or your own gifts.

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Resources & Connect with Julie Cluff

• Website: juliecluff.com
• Podcast: Light the Day (interviews & channeled messages)
• YouTube/Instagram: Julie Cluff Coaching
• Free Angel Guide: Download via juliecluff.com
• Julie’s book: "Miracles in the Darkness"

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“You are your highest authority. Every session.” — Julie Cluff (90:40)

“Let go of any expectations that it’s going to look a certain way.” — Council of Wisdom channelled by Julie (108:27)

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This summary captures the emotional depth, spiritual insights, and practical wisdom of Julie Cluff’s episode. For anyone facing loss, questioning faith, or seeking deeper meaning in suffering, this conversation offers reassurance, validation, and hope.

Transcript

[Julie Clough]

El Marte siete de Julio la espera

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[Alex Ferrari]

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[Julie Clough]

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[Julie Clough]

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[Alex Ferrari]

tremphyaradio.com welcome to next Level Soul, the place where we deep dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness, and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host Alex Ferrari and every week we sit down with the world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists and truth seekers to illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask Questions that truly matter. Why are we here? Where are we going? And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and our consciousness to the next level? This is a space for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember who you really are. So take a deep breath, open your mind, and prepare to step into your Next Level soul. Now, if you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the next level, explore Next Level Soul tv. Our streaming platform filled with exclusive movies, docs, original shows, transformative series, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and deep spiritual teachings you won't find anywhere else. New content drops every week, helping you expand your consciousness and live from your highest potential. Start your journey today at Next LevelSoul TV. The views, opinions and statements expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the beliefs or positions of Next Level Soul, its host, or any of the companies they represent. Now let's dive into today's episode. I'd like to welcome to the show Julie Clough. How you doing, Julie?

[Julie Clough]

Great. It's so good to be here. Thanks.

[Alex Ferrari]

Thank you so much for coming down to Next Level Soul Studios. I appreciate you making the effort.

[Julie Clough]

This is really fun for me. We lived in Texas for many years, so it's fun to come down here.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, I, you know, I was. We were having a lovely conversation beforehand, so we know a lot about each other already. But your, your story, what has happened to you, your journey is a very interesting journey. Before we get into the loss that you had, some loss that I can't even comprehend, I want to go back a little bit and just talk about where you started in your spiritual space, in your spiritual journey, which is in the Mormon Church.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

And you were apparently with the Mormon Church for six decades. So you were all in.

[Julie Clough]

I was all in.

[Alex Ferrari]

You worked at the Mormon Church as well?

[Julie Clough]

I didn't work for them, but like the, the way they do things, it's all volunteer basis, mostly except at headquarters. And so, yeah, I did a lot of work.

[Alex Ferrari]

So you were in. So you were born. You were born into it?

[Julie Clough]

I was.

[Alex Ferrari]

All right. So you were born into that faith, as most of us. I was born into the Catholic faith.

[Julie Clough]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

You know, Jewish faith and so on recovering. I am a recovering Catholic Mormon.

[Lady Luck]

I like.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, my friend Julie Ryan always says she's a cafeteria Catholic. She takes and picks and chooses what she likes.

[Commercial Announcer]

So.

[Alex Ferrari]

So what was it about? What happened? Well, first of all was the loss, the grief that you. That we're going to talk about in a minute, was that the thing that turned or did you already start leaving prior?

[Julie Clough]

No, I didn't start leaving prior.

[Alex Ferrari]

Okay.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, it was, but it was a catalyst.

[Alex Ferrari]

Got it.

[Julie Clough]

So the loss that I experienced was a catalyst to where I am now, my spiritual journey. Yeah, got it.

[Alex Ferrari]

All right, so let's go back to, if you don't mind, to Mother's Day 2007. What happened that day?

[Julie Clough]

Just a little bit of context. I've been married before. Second marriage. We had our Brady Bunch family. I had three children from my first marriage, and then Ron and I had three more children. So we had six children. Our three oldest stayed at home, actually. Our oldest daughter was off at college and our three youngest were traveling with me from our home in Houston, Texas east, to visit grandparents. And about midway through the afternoon, I was. I fell asleep at the wheel. And the crazy part is I never felt tired that day. And that is the part that's like so hard for me to like wrap my head around because I never felt tired that day. And it was almost as if we were all awake and talking and laughing. And then the next thing you know, I fall asleep at the wheel. I wake up and I'm bouncing along the median between eastbound and westbound lanes of highway near the Mississippi, Alabama border.

[Alex Ferrari]

Wow.

[Julie Clough]

And when I tried to pull the SUV back up on the road, we started rolling. The wheels just lifted off the road and we started rolling and we rolled all the way across two lanes of highway into the grass on the other side.

[Alex Ferrari]

How fast were you. I mean, it must have been, I

[Julie Clough]

mean, just, you know, normal speeds on the highway in that, that area. Wow. So it was, it was crazy. It was really, really crazy. And, and in that moment and what I realized later, I didn't, I didn't know this. I didn't recognize this at the time, but the, the rolling knocked me out. And so I just thought that I had lost my eyesight. But it was like my consciousness came back before my eyesight came back, if that makes sense. But yeah, as I came to and as I. My eyesight came back and I saw all the destruction around me. I wish I could paint that picture for people because it was just unbelievable. Like just everything in the car, just everything everywhere. But I was. Before my eyesight came back, I was calling for my kids. My 12 year old son was sitting in the seat next to me. And then my daughter Carrie was in the backseat. She was 10 and my son David was 8. And they were in the backseat. And as I was calling for them, I could hear my son crying. But I Wasn't getting any answer from Carrie and David. I could hear James, who was in the seat next to me, crying. And as my eyesight came back and I started to scan, I saw that they had been thrown from the car. And what it felt like. It felt like. Like the car was a football field away from where they were. It probably wasn't sure, but that's what it felt like because I was physically and in every way in shock and stunned. And, yeah, it was. It was horrific. But there were some really interesting things that happened even while the car was rolling. I heard a voice in my head as the car started to roll that said, bring your arm in. And I brought my arm. I don't know how I had the consciousness to do that in the middle of that, but I brought my arm in. And three months later, I learned of a woman who had lost her arm in a rollover car accident. And a couple years after that, I met another woman who had lost her arm in a rollover car accident. So it's interesting because I heard that voice in my head, spirit speaking to me, angels speaking to me, telling me to bring my arm in. I don't know how I did it, honestly, but it's hard to wrap your head around because, like, how is. How could that voice not have come before I fell asleep that said, oh, you're tired. You know, you need to pull over? But it wasn't. There was none of that that day. So it kind of pointed to this, which I couldn't hold onto at that moment. There's so much. Because it's. It's like so much happened in that moment, and there were so many things that happened in that moment, and then there were so much that happened afterwards, you know, so much that happened afterwards that helped me to integrate the loss.

[Lady Luck]

Right.

[Julie Clough]

And the experience. But, yeah, it was. It was a horror, horrible situation.

[Alex Ferrari]

I can't even. I mean, I have kids, so I can't even. I can't even imagine that kind of loss.

[Julie Clough]

It's. It's.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's. It's baffling to me, so.

[Julie Clough]

Well, in that moment, I knew, like, I had this clear, like, your life has changed forever. And I didn't even know if they were alive or had passed, but it's like I just knew that our life had changed forever.

[Alex Ferrari]

So when you went through that process was, you know, and you're still. You know, obviously, you're still Mormons. And I'm laying that out because where we're going.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Did anything mystical or anything like that happen? Did you see anything different? Because you. Things have opened up for you and we'll talk about that as we keep going. But in that moment, did you see anything?

[Julie Clough]

Did you hear anything in that moment? I was in complete shock and terror. I was screaming, I killed my kids. I killed my kids. I was screaming that. And I often think of my son sitting next to me in the car and he's a 30 year old man now, right. And he's doing beautifully. But boy, I was just completely traumatized. And it wasn't until long time later that I realized that I'd had an experience while the car was rolling when I was blacked out where I had left my body and I had joined Carrie and David and had an opportunity to say goodbye. I don't have a lot of memory around that. I just have this. Glimpses, glimpses of this vision and interestingly enough I also have this glimpse of me going and, and visiting with the Council or with.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, yeah, with Spirit Council.

[Julie Clough]

Spirit Council, right, which. That came online much later.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, yeah, but that came out after. Do you remember that?

[Julie Clough]

I remember that much, much later.

[Alex Ferrari]

So at that point did you have a conversation like hey, hey, hey, hey, what's going on? Like, did I sign up for this?

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, and that's the thing, I don't remember a lot.

[Alex Ferrari]

But you remember that like a glimpse

[Julie Clough]

again, I just have these little visions. It's interesting too because in those visions I see myself as very calm. Just like that voice that said, you know, bring your arm in. And when I tune back into that voice, it was very calm. Yeah, it was very peaceful. Wasn't frantic. I was frantic.

[Alex Ferrari]

Who was that voice, do you think?

[Julie Clough]

You know, I'm not quite sure, but I feel like. So I have a main guide and we'll call him Jacob. And there's a whole story behind that, but that's okay. That has come in vocally for me for years, but it's only been in more recent years that I've really made that connection and that relationship. But yeah, it's, it's, it's. You know, we went to the hospital and James and I were taken to a different hospital than Carrie and David. And I didn't know if they were dead or alive. And I'm laying on a striker board in the hospital as they're doing tests and stuff to make sure that I didn't have more injuries than what they could see. And as I was laying there and we're in an emergency room and the only way I know how to really explain this Is that it's as if you're in a movie theater and you're watching a war movie. And then it cuts to this beautiful love story. A commercial like a love story. Like this beautiful love story. Because as I was laying in the hospital, I was going in and out of being there in that hospital and being in a field with Jesus, who I call Yeshua now to distinguish from the. The Jesus that I knew as a previously. But in that space, I felt so much peace and so much calm and there were no words exchanged. It was as if we were standing in a meadow. These beautiful flowers and distant mountains. Which is so weird because I'm from Florida. I'm like, why am I in a meadow with mountains? I don't know. But that, that was the, the. The little, the imprint that I have of this, the surroundings. But more, more. It was just him standing there with me, holding my hands and just like that deep look in my eye, just that deep connection and that deep. Just holding, just that holding that. It's really remarkable. And I would feel that peace. And then I would come back into that hospital room and. And be in my freakout state of not knowing what was happening.

[Alex Ferrari]

Interesting. So it was like this kind of, like you said, you're watching a war movie and then you cut to a love story and then you're coming back to a war movie and going back to a love story kind of thing. So you were kind of having in and out of these experiences. No words were exchanged, but information was exchanged by either telepathy or something. But you knew there was a knowing.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Of what was happening. Yeah, that sounds to me very, very near death experience. But not because you didn't technically die.

[Julie Clough]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

But there's elements of a near death experience where you. In near death experiences, there is no communication, but you know everything well.

[Julie Clough]

And it's funny because I often tell people, it's like it's almost as if I was asleep before this accident and I died the day of the accident and I woke up three years later.

[Alex Ferrari]

Explain that, please.

[Julie Clough]

Three years later, I had a miraculous healing.

[Alex Ferrari]

What brought that on? What was the catalyst for that?

[Julie Clough]

It was actually a prayer, a special prayer that was given. And interestingly, I didn't. Again, all these pieces that start to come into the equation that you don't recognize at the time. About a week before the accident, I had been in England with my husband. He was traveling there for work and we, my daughter and I had gone over there and I learned later that he took me because I was doing so poorly because at that point in my journey of recovery, I was probably the worst I'd been. It was. The darkness in me felt tangible. It just was. I, it was.

[Alex Ferrari]

Let's kind of analyze that for a little bit because this is, I think, an important part of the healing process for people. And again, I'm trying to put myself in your place. It. As a parent. Yeah, I'm trying to as a parent. And it's, it's. Everything inside of me is like, don't go there. Because it's something, it's, it's the worst thing that could ever happen to a parent is losing a child and then feeling responsible for the loss. Oh, it's a whole other level of thing. So we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com, the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite slots, live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players, 30 coin packs are on sale for 10 bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

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[Julie Clough]

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[e-mail]. And now back to the show I'm trying to analyze in my time. I've gone through dark times in my life. I've dealt with loss and things. Nothing like this. But I'm trying to picture myself in what you're going through and you say this darkness. So I need to ask you, how could you survive this with the guilt and its darkness of losing two young children? I personally don't like that. Cracks that'll break most people. So what did you do and how long were you in? I don't think you ever get over it. But how long were you in this darkness that you're talking about? And how did you start kind of walking your way out through the. To the light?

[Julie Clough]

It is. It's a. It's a journey. I was in such self hatred.

[Alex Ferrari]

Of course, you're beating yourself up at a level that we can't even comprehend.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. I mean, it was all my fault. I can't blame it on anybody else. It was my fault. There's no other explanation. Right. And I was seeing the pain that my husband was in. I was seeing the pain that my children were in. I was seeing the pain of their friends and their family. We had an amazing community of people that. That wrapped their arms around us. It was. It brings tears to my eyes to even think about all the people. There were almost a thousand people at the funeral, at the service. But we had. I had my tennis group that had organized, you know, a whole group of people to bring meals in. We had our church group that organized all these people to help us in service. I was homeschooling at the time, and so, you know, these were my youngest children and I was homeschooling. And so the homeschool community wrapped their arms around us. We just had so much love around us. And one thing I will say is that the day of the accident, right around the day of the accident might have been the day after, I was still laying in the hospital. My injuries were pretty minor, but they kept me in the hospital for two or three days. What I didn't share was that my son, who was 12, he had a pretty severe injury to his leg. And when we got to the hospital, it's Mother's Day. It's a holiday, it's a Sunday. And I'm hearing all these, the hospital attendants, the nurses talking about asking why the doctor was there. The doctor that actually created or pioneered the procedure that my son needed was at the hospital that day. I mean, that's not a miracle. That's why I called my. On a holiday, my first book, Miracles in the Darkness, because there were so many miracles. And everyone's around, you know, and I would hear them say, why is he here? Why is he here? The hospital was actually named after his family. I mean, got it this. And he was not only an angel to our son in the work that he did and, and saving his leg, he's doing great. You know, he's totally fine now. But he was an angel to our family too, because he actually advocated for us with the hospital and helping us figure out how to get home, we had a funeral. And I mean, just. There was so much. There was so much. And. Sorry, I kind of took us off track a little bit. But part of my healing and one of the things that I realized much, much later was everything that I needed to heal was in the moment of the accident, it was there. And that.

[Alex Ferrari]

What do you mean?

[Julie Clough]

What I mean by that is everything was lined up, everything was available, everything was a part of the journey. For my healing was present. It's. It's kind of. And I haven't really shared it this way in the past, but as. As we know that in spirit, there is no time or space like we experience it here. And it's kind of the same thing with this accident. There was no time and space in spirit, but in physicality, I needed time and space to integrate what I had experienced. So on the day of the accident, I had a very clear knowing that Carrie and David were okay. And I think some of that came from my religious background. I think some of that came from that, that programming, if you will, that I. I had from the religious background. But here's the part of it is that regardless of what our background is, they're good and bad for every background. And that framework of Mormonism was very helpful to me in the beginnings of my healing process, but it was also very, very injuring as well.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, the thing that's. And I think this is an important point for people because, you know, you and I came from not similar backgrounds. I wasn't 60 years in the Catholic religion, six decades in it. But I've. I've said this so many times publicly, but I'm very grateful that I was, Was. Was born into the Catholicism and people are like, how could you. It's is a horrible. It's a lot of. Yeah, but I like the cafeteria aspect of things where it introduced me to a greater power than myself. It introduced me to angels, introduced me to saints. Saints, ascended masters, introduced me to Christ and his teachings. And that framework allowed me to then go off and search Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and then all the other yogic philosophies and Confucianism and all these different philosophies. But the framework, the foundation, was based on Catholicism. So I'm very, very grateful for that because it gave me a sense of understand and belonging in the universe.

[Julie Clough]

Yes.

[Alex Ferrari]

There's a lot of crap that came with it and a lot of guilt and a lot of other controlling avenues I did not gel with. But I felt it eventually and I just left. Yeah, even young, young I was in. I was in high school and I was like, in a Catholic high school. I was like, this is ridiculous.

[Julie Clough]

This isn't working for me.

[Alex Ferrari]

This is not what happened to Jesus in those yada, yada years, you know, those kind of. That kind of stuff. But I'm very grateful. So I'm glad you said that because a lot of people who are listening, who might be in a organized religion, that they're not happy with you. You were. You chose that as a soul to come in to this life through that lens because you could have been born Hindu.

[Julie Clough]

I could have.

[Alex Ferrari]

I could have been born Jewish. It's just that's what we happen to choose to learn the lessons that we needed to learn and to best serve us in this life. A lot of people, don't get me wrong, I was angry. I'm sure you were too, at organized religion for a long time. And there's still spurts of it that pop up when I speak about it, because it still irks me a bit. But I'm very grateful for it. I wouldn't have changed anything. I don't know if you could say that.

[Julie Clough]

But I absolutely. Because when I look at, you know, my father came from a very difficult background. His father had died by suicide. His brother had died by suicide. I had a brother who died by suicide. And all of these pieces are aspects of our journey. And so, like I said, my dad came from this really challenging background. And he wasn't lds, my mom was. And so we were raised LDS is Latter Day Saint. Latter Day Saint, yes. Mormon. Latter Day Saint, yes. It's interchangeable. And so. And I have a sibling that says, imagine what our life would have been like had it not been for the church, that community, that framework, that teaching of. That conservative teaching of avoiding alcohol. I don't know that we needed to avoid coffee, but it was just part of.

[Alex Ferrari]

Depends on where you buy the coffee. But I understand what you're saying.

[Julie Clough]

Devil bean juice.

[Alex Ferrari]

See, this is where I have problems. Mind you, in my church, I'm a first grader getting given wine.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, well, remember, they were the blood of Christ.

[Julie Clough]

And I wasn't allowed to have wine at all.

[Alex Ferrari]

I literally remember in the first grade or second grade, they were like. And they would give a big gold cup and they would pour wine and you would you like. Once I. I was in second grade, so I had. I. You have to have communion first. So I had communion and then they would give me the wine, and then the priest would just wipe it off with a cloth and give it to everybody else in the entire, I mean, it was insane. So I remember. So yes, I was. And I don't drink and never have. Other than a few sips of that.

[Julie Clough]

Other than as a first year writer,

[Alex Ferrari]

as a second grade, second grader. Let's, let's be fair. Second, third grade.

[Julie Clough]

We want to make sure that we're second grade, not first grade. Exactly.

[Alex Ferrari]

Because there's a huge difference there. But it's fat. But it's fascinating. And that's where I find problems with a lot of the organizers is these kind of dogmatic things that don't make sense, like no eating meat on Fridays. We, you go back in the histories, you understand why that was originally. Because pork was not very sanitary and all that stuff back then.

[Julie Clough]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

And they just kept carrying these ideas over. But the Mormon Church is interesting because they're fairly new.

[Julie Clough]

Oh yeah, it's a couple hundred. 18, 30.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julie Clough]

A few hundred years coming up on the 200.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, a couple hundred. Yeah, a couple hundred years. So it's a fairly young religion.

[Julie Clough]

It is.

[Alex Ferrari]

So it doesn't have the lineage of Catholicism or the Vatican or anything like that, but there's still dogma that's been carried around from those days.

[Julie Clough]

Absolutely. And it's, you know, and it is considered a high control, high demand religion. And it, it did create a conditioning and a way that I viewed every experience that I had.

[Alex Ferrari]

Sure.

[Julie Clough]

Through that, through that lens. Exactly. But, and interestingly, before any family was able to get to the hospital, because I was in at the border of Mississippi and Alabama, and before anybody was able to get to the hospital, a bishop, which is what they call the pastor essentially of a local congregation, came to visit me in the hospital and started talking to me about, you know, the plan of salvation and they're going to be okay and this and that and the other. And I, and I, I look back on that and at the time I'm listening to this man thinking, do you really think this is what I need to hear right now? And, and I, he was doing the best he could. He was. And I, and I have so much compassion for that man. I cannot imagine, imagine walking. Yeah, you're having Sunday dinner, Mother's Day dinner with your family and you get a phone call. Hey, this horrific accident just happened. And this mom needs, you know, to have somebody there with her. And I, I, I could see his nerves a mile away. I mean, I just, it's, it's a horrific situation and I don't blame him at all for doing that. Because that's. That's what he did. You know, that's.

[Alex Ferrari]

That's his job.

[Julie Clough]

Right. But I. There were little things that were happening all along the way that were pointing to that this was part of the plan.

[Alex Ferrari]

That brings me to my next question. Yeah, perfect. Thank you for that segue. We're here.

[Julie Clough]

I didn't even know we were here like that.

[Alex Ferrari]

The. The idea that we choose our lives and the idea that we have sold contracts and we come into a life to do certain things, and soul group around you goes, oh, I'll be your son this time, or I'll be your daughter this time, and I'm going to be a horrible daughter and I'm going to put you through hell, because that's what you need to learn this life, or I'm going to be loving or this or that, or I'm going to pass at this point in my life to help you, catalyze you to something else, and I'm willing to do that for you. That's the understanding and framework I understand of the other side and what we choose here. It's extremely difficult to hear that in this time. When something bad is. When something good is fine. When you're in the Amalfi coast on a. On a yacht eating lobster, you're like, I chose this. This is. I needed to experience.

[Julie Clough]

Limoncello ice cream.

[Alex Ferrari]

Stop it. Stop it. Some Napoli pizza. But, but. But when bad things are happening, not just on a personal level, but like on a global level, wars and things like that, it's very difficult for people to understand.

[Julie Clough]

Oh, yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Or even grasp that idea. And it's difficult for me to understand that. Like, it's hard. I was. You know, I've gone through things. I'm like, why? Even after I've kind of come to these awakenings, I go, okay, you're putting me through this. What am I supposed to learn here? Because I can't see it. And a lot of times when you're in the storm, you cannot see past the rain. Only after a little bit of time do you look back at the storm and go, oh, that's what that was for.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. And I don't. You know, and to that point, I don't think we even totally grasped what that was for. I think we have this, like, kindergarten level. Absolutely what that was for. I think there's so much more going on than multiple layers can even comprehend.

[Alex Ferrari]

So with that framework laid out, why do you think. Do you think you chose this path for your soul and your children's children. And this is such a hard conversation to have, man. And I'm, and I'm saying this for people listening to give them some sort of understanding of why things like this happen. Because the whole concept of why think good things happen to bad people are bad. Bad things happen to good people.

[Julie Clough]

Good things happen to bad people too. Let's be clear about that.

[Alex Ferrari]

So both sides, thank you very much. As I was about to say that I was like, wait a minute. Yeah, why that that unfairness is like that person's horrible yet but they have all this money or those success and this and this person is an angel and she is broke or he's broke and poor and lost everything. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

[Julie Clough]

Hey everybody.

[Lady Luck]

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[Julie Clough]

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[Julie Clough]

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show. The framework that we choose this path for soul growth for whatever reason resonates and makes sense with me even in the bad times. You know, in the good times it's easy, but in the bad times, it makes sense. Why did Christ choose to come down here? And let's not get into the whole salvation messiah thing, but just. Or why did Buddha decide to go that or why did Gandhi decide to do all the struggle or Martin Luther King come and decide to do all the things that they did. That framework makes sense to me. What are your thoughts on that?

[Julie Clough]

Well, I'll tell you, that was one of the things that I struggled with within religion was because I was taught, we came here this one lifetime and you. You have to be baptized, all that kind of thing. And. And from a young age, that didn't make a lot of sense to me because I would look around and I would see people who were living totally different lives and they're completely checked out to the need for baptism, or they're in a country that's like, well, what's baptism? Or it didn't make any sense to me. It didn't make any sense to me at all. And so. And the one thing that was really beautiful about Mormonism was they did have a. A policy of being baptized for someone who has passed. So you're being baptized, you're representing that person. So. So that was, in a way, that was a beautiful compromise, if you will, that everyone can be baptized, even if they've already left the earth, they can be baptized and that. So I. I appreciated that part of it, but it. It didn't make a lot of sense to me. And it was. Yeah, so that was. That was part of some of my questioning early on. But my. So a couple of things happened. One was about five months after the accident, it was beginning of October. I walked into a Walgreens. They were putting costumes out. I saw this witch's costume and immediately thought of my daughter Carrie and thought, oh, she would love that. And then, of course, it hits like a brick on your head that she's not here. She's. There's not going to be a Halloween, you know, and that just that sadness, because my. You can even see from that reaction of you still expecting them to come downstairs in the morning or still expecting seeing a costume and thinking, oh, she would love that. You know, I don't do that anymore. I mean, it's been 19 years. It's been. Yeah, it's been 19 years. And. But at that point, I was still trying to integrate. So I had that thought, and then in my head, I thought, why did this have to happen? And that spirit spoke to me and said, they're right where they're supposed to be. And when I heard that in my head, I said, but why did it have to happen this way? And I heard, how would you have liked it to happen? And when you hear a question like that, your brain goes and looks for answers, of course, which not pleasant to think about other possibilities of their passing.

[Alex Ferrari]

Sure.

[Julie Clough]

But I will also share that five years before this happened, we had just moved into our home in Houston and they were upstairs in the bonus room leaning on the screen, talking to the dog in the backyard. It was spraying and they both fell out the second floor window together.

[Alex Ferrari]

Those two.

[Julie Clough]

The two of them together. Minor, minor injuries. David was three years old, essentially had no injuries. They fell onto the pool deck. I didn't even say that they fell onto the gravel.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, at that age, they're just rubber. Yeah, yeah. And if they don't, he just bounced off the ground.

[Julie Clough]

I kept saying angels, like carried him down to the ground. Or I'd say, you must have landed on Carrie. He's like, I did not land on Carrie.

[Alex Ferrari]

I hit this.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Julie Clough]

Upset, but. And Carrie had two minor fractures to her wrists and had casts on. And she was. Yeah, she was five and she was hilarious with those casts. And I can only imagine everybody was coming over and bringing her things. And you know, a five year old, she's like, you think somebody could bring me a Barbie? I don't think that's the biggest.

[Alex Ferrari]

That's not the way it works. But okay.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. But anyway, so that had happened, which could have been an exit point for them.

[Alex Ferrari]

And the exit points is something that a lot of people don't understand what the exit points are. Could you explain the concept of an exit point for people?

[Julie Clough]

Well, I really believe that no one dies before their time.

[Alex Ferrari]

Right.

[Julie Clough]

And that's an important concept for us to remember because we all. Even if you're not the driver of the car when something awful happens like that. We all carry some level of guilt when we lose someone we love because we think, oh, we should have taken them to the doctor sooner, we should have gone to the hospital sooner. We should have seen these signs. We should have seen this or that or the other. Right. So we all carry a little bit of that guilt when a loved one dies. And so that piece of just knowing that they didn't die before their time. And the exit point is a time when we could have passed and we didn't. And so they could have passed falling out the second floor window.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, no question.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. I mean, I've. I've known people, I know you, I'm sure you do. Who have died with. In circumstances that you're like, how did that happen?

[Alex Ferrari]

And then the opposite, like, how did you not die Exactly.

[Julie Clough]

On all the near death experiencers that have, you know, Lightning Vinnie in a body bag, for example. Right. He's in A body bag. He's been pronounced dead. He was dead before they arrived.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah. Then he pulls a zombie situation comes up. It scares the hell out of me.

[Julie Clough]

Exactly. Exactly. So. So those. All those little pieces are evidence that things are happening in the order that they. They should be happening. But, you know, so there was. There was that aspect, and then there was the. You know, and having that message again, that spirit that spoke to me. And it wasn't the first time I'd heard spirit just speak to me. In my 20s, I was. I woke up in the middle of the night. I had been reading this book about this woman who had. Who was probably about my age when this happened, but she had created a. Just this huge business. And one of the things that she had done was gotten up really early in the morning and so. And to, you know, get busy, get on with her day. And so I woke up in the middle of the night, and spirit was speaking to me and telling. Telling me I needed to be getting up early in the morning. I. I already do. I have two babies. You know, I don't know what you're talking about, but I had this whole conversation with Spirit telling me, okay, you need to go talk to this person. You need to do this. You need to do that. I'm like, what? And. But I frankly thought, this is crazy. I actually woke up my husband at the time, and I said, I just need to tell you what happened, because I think when I wake up, I'm not going to believe that this just happened. And I actually went and I had the conversation that spirit was suggesting that I have. And the person, as soon as I said, I need to talk to you, they said, I knew it. So there was evidence to the communications that I was receiving, which was interesting. You know, a couple of years after the accident, by this time, my oldest daughter, you know, she's at college. My second daughter went to college. She graduated from high school two weeks after the accident happened, and then went off to college.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh.

[Julie Clough]

And so I'm at home, you know, I'm a mom of six children. We all live together, you know, the big Brady Bunch family. And all of a sudden, our home is quiet and just two teenage boys. Two teenage, teenage boys. I want to emphasize that because I was thinking, oh, my gosh, I was feeling so guilty because I was so not present. I was not present for them.

[Alex Ferrari]

Listen, as a parent, I get you. I have teenagers.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. It's a nightmare. It's. It's a beautiful nightmare.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's a beautiful nightmare. Agreed. But we do the. And I've realized this and I know my parents, probably especially my mom, watches everything I do, so she'll hear this and I'll go. Only recently, within the last few years, did I understand that our parents truly just did the best they could.

[Julie Clough]

Oh, absolutely.

[Alex Ferrari]

They are flawed human beings, like all of us, doing the best under the circumstances. And sometimes they hit it out of the park and other times they strike out. And I do it too, as a parent. And you have to have some compassion with the parent and also think about where that lineage comes from. How did their grandparents treat those parents? And with that training and that programming and that experience, what they did to you might have just been a reflection of how they did. And they're trying to do the best they can. And some generations, which is something I was going to ask you, some generations break cycles of violence, of guilt, of other things, of abuse, verbal abuse. And they go, no more, no more. Like, you know, my parents didn't follow, didn't let me follow my dreams. So it had to be an attorney. Not me personally, I'm just saying in general. But when I came to my mom with the insane idea of being a filmmaker in 1993, she's like, let's do it, let's go. And she broke that cycle. So now with mine, I said, what do you want to do? Follow your dream, you know, so that cycle breaking is something. So I just wanted to kind of put that out there for people because a lot of times people don't. They blame their parents for everything. And there might be a very good reason for it.

[Julie Clough]

Absolutely.

[Alex Ferrari]

But should be some compassion about where they came from, how they did it, why they did it. Because I think at the core of every human being, we're good.

[Julie Clough]

We are. We're all doing the best we can. We're all doing the best. And that concept is hard because even in that state of being checked out, I was doing the best I could.

[Alex Ferrari]

Right.

[Julie Clough]

100%, because look what you went through. I know.

[Alex Ferrari]

They don't do anything.

[Julie Clough]

And I felt so bad though, because I thought my girls grew up in a totally different household.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's.

[Julie Clough]

And so I was having this conversation in my head again. I'm having this conversation in my head. I'm like, I just feel so guilty that my boys are growing up with a checked out mom. I just feel so bad about it. And Spirit again spoke to me and said this was their decision too. This was part of their plan too. Now, keep in mind, I'm still in the religious.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, you haven't left church. Yeah, you haven't left the church.

[Julie Clough]

But I'm having these experiences that are kind of outside the realm in some ways. But I, I could still make it work, but they were kind of out a little bit outside the range.

[Alex Ferrari]

How did you, how did you process this? Because you're like in, in the Mormon tradition. I mean there's the devil's work obviously in the Catholic religion as well. I mean, dep. Who's talking to you? You know, because there's obviously a big history of like divine intervention and angels and stuff like that, but it's generally frowned upon if you go to your priest and go, or pastor and go, hey, I've been talking, God has been talking to me or angels have been talking to me. It's generally not looked fondly upon.

[Julie Clough]

Well, the interesting thing about the LDS Church is that they actually promoted and, and asked us to become familiar with the spirit and to have that connection. But it needed to fit within the, the realm of what they were teaching. So if you received a revelation and it didn't fit within the construct of what they had prescribed, then you needed to realize that you were not getting it right, that you were not hearing it right. And there were some people within the church, I will say who. Because, because in, in the church they did talk about the pre. Existence that we were here, that we existed before we came here, but it's still like a one off life. And, and you know, and then another thing that never made sense to me while we're, while we're talking about it, another thing that never made sense to me. This is kind of not just Mormonism,

[Alex Ferrari]

this is religion, organized religion in general.

[Julie Clough]

Is this idea that we came down here and then we had to be like die for our sins.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, for, for. Yeah, for Christians. Yeah.

[Julie Clough]

That just never. Well, that means it did and it didn't.

[Alex Ferrari]

No, no, it didn't make any sense.

[Julie Clough]

It was, you know, the more. And, and this was, this is the deconstruction that I went through over the years after the accident was the God that I was becoming familiar with was so loving and so kind and having that experience, that face to face experience with Yeshua, with Jesus.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Julie Clough]

I thought it was safe.

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Julie Clough]

And that's how I knew spirit. So it didn't make any sense that there was a God that would have all these rules, all these regulations, and if you don't follow all these rules. And there were times after they passed where I thought, did I do enough? You know, there were. There were moments where I thought, is it possible that I didn't do enough? And that Carrie and David aren't okay? That somehow the guilt, they have been. They've been judged. Not good enough. I didn't spend a lot of time there. More of that was against myself. I actually, for a long time held this belief that I was being punished. And that's why the. The children died. Because I was driving on a Sunday.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, Jesus. My God. It's diabolical, isn't it. Our brains.

[Julie Clough]

It is. You know, and I'm not saying if someone's listening to this and they're. They're a member of the church and they believe. I'm not seeing that the church directly said that to me. I'm not implying that at all. But it's like you said, your brain starts to go through all these stories.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, that's not a. That's not a teaching that. I mean, yeah, know, you should. The Sunday's God's day. I get that. But you got to drive to church, so it's not a. Yeah, it's. That's. But you. You made that up.

[Julie Clough]

I miss church to go on a trip.

[Alex Ferrari]

I mean, I mean, I mean, and

[Julie Clough]

I was, you know, I was a very strict Sabbath follower. And so it was. It was challenging. But you. In at that three year mark, I ended up in London. I kind of circle back to that real quick. And, and I didn't realize this at the time, but we ended up on a side trip to Stonehenge. And I did not realize at the time that Stonehenge is considered the heart chakra of the earth. That area. Right. And then a week later, I have this prayer that was given by someone at the church. And within 24 hours, the light bulbs came on. I was a different person. The darkness just lifted.

[Alex Ferrari]

Why? So tell me, explain to me what happened.

[Julie Clough]

I don't know.

[Alex Ferrari]

You just. It was like night and day.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Like someone literally switched on a light and you're like, oh, I get it all. It all kind of. It was a download almost.

[Julie Clough]

It was just a clearing of the darkness.

[Alex Ferrari]

An awareness.

[Julie Clough]

It was a new awareness. It was a. I woke up to the joy of life that I did. I don't think I even experienced before the accident.

[Alex Ferrari]

And it was around Stonehenge that this happened.

[Julie Clough]

Well, Stonehenge was the week before. Then I had this prayer and then within 24 hours of that prayer, I was.

[Alex Ferrari]

Do you think anything happened to do with. I mean, everybody, not everybody has to go to Stonehenge to find us.

[Julie Clough]

I say that all the time. Thank you for saying that.

[Alex Ferrari]

Please, you don't have to fly to Stonehenge. There's many places.

[Julie Clough]

That was part of my path. That was part of my path. It was not. It's not something that everyone needs to do. But I also say that in. In that when we are. When we are doing the work of healing and when I say work, I'm not saying like we're efforting out of healing, but out of grief. What we're doing is we are making friends with grief. Grief is part of the healing process. Yes, it's part of the healing process. And. And because in society, we think we shouldn't be grieving, we shouldn't be sad, we shouldn't have bad feelings. We do have bad feelings. We do have hard days. We do it. So it's just allowing what is and not getting stuck there. So it's. I was doing. I was really engaged with my own healing after we got back from, you know, and I'm backing up again. Sorry. I'm, like, all over the place. I hope that's okay. But after we came back from the. From Alabama, from the hospital, and I remember sitting in the backyard and I remember sitting in a chair and thinking, somehow I came back after my brother passed away. Sometimes, somehow I came back after a horrific divorce. Is it possible I could come back from this? And I can remember where I was sitting. I was by myself. And I had that thought. Is it possible I could come back from this? Now Facebook wasn't a thing, or it was a baby thing.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah.

[Julie Clough]

I didn't have Facebook to go to to look for grief groups. What I noticed when. After my healing journey and when I received the message that I was supposed to do something with this story and. And. And help other people with it, I went on Facebook and I started looking around, and it's abysmal. It's awful. The. The messages that parents can't overcome, you know, they can't move forward after the death of a child is pervasive. It's everywhere, really, and it's so damaging.

[Alex Ferrari]

Why do you think that that is it? I mean, I know in the religious standpoint, it can be like you're being punished for something you did and you shouldn't. Like, if God did this to you, then this is something. This is just part of what you have to deal with. It's like you gotta swallow it, and you can't come out of the darkness. You must live there now kind of energy, which you're not saying that you're saying, and you've got it, like, from what the stories that you're saying. The brother, you know, losing your brother in the way you lost him, your, you know, horrific divorce and then losing your children. You went through some stuff.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. And that's just a part of what I went through.

[Alex Ferrari]

I'm sure you. You chose. You chose a hell of a run.

[Julie Clough]

I did. At one of my. One of my spiritual friends said your soul was very creative.

[Alex Ferrari]

You're like, I'll take one of these. I'll take. I'll take five of those. I'll take two of these. Oh, that's gonna be fun. You know, it's. It's hard to think about, like a soul walking through a supermarket and just grabbing and grabbing things and putting in the cart. And then you go to the checkout and you're so. And your spirit guides are there and going, you sure you want to do this all in one? I mean, we could spread this over three or four lifetimes.

[Julie Clough]

Exactly. For sure. And we, we. Yeah. Because. Because for years, even before this accident happened, I would literally tell people I stood in the wrong line in heaven.

[Alex Ferrari]

I just got everything.

[Julie Clough]

I was like, somehow I stood in the wrong line in heaven. I'm trying to figure out how to get off that path. I don't know how to get off that path. And I had finally gotten to a place in my life. I was remarried, you know, my kids were growing up. Everything was good. But my nervous system was still a mess because I was still supercharged from all these previous experiences that I'd had. And I was finally getting to that point where I thought, you know what? I can relax. Things are good. And then this accident happened. And I don't say that to say, you know, the minute you relax, that happens. But my system is still trying to relax. Honestly.

[Alex Ferrari]

I have to say, though, and it's interesting and I love to hear your thoughts on this is just me analyzing the scenario that when something like this happens, I mean, a car accident is a wake up call. A near death experience in a car accident is a wake up, is a kind of wake up call. Near death experiences. I think probably one of the ultimate wake up calls to put you on a new path because you've been going down this one path for so long. This. What happened to you sounds like, you know, to. To leave the program. And you were talking about six decades as you said, to leave that programming, something had to rock your world even more so than it's already been rocked. And it sounds like this is what you. I mean, just looking at it from an, like, not that way. You needed this. But that's the result of it. Like it shifted your entire world into a new path that would. If that hadn't have happened. Who are you?

[Julie Clough]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

I'm asking seriously, have you thought of that?

[Julie Clough]

Well, and here's the thing. This is. This is. I had gone through two and a half years of therapy. I had PTSD after the accident. I had complicated, complex grief. Grief that I was Dealing with weeks of therapy. My therapist, who wasn't somebody who calls you at home, would call me at home because she was worried about me. Yeah, of course. And I'd even tried a medication at one point because she suggested maybe I should try to get on a medication. She's like, I feel like the chemistry in your brain has just changed so much. And. And I tried something in it, like, oh, yeah, I'm talking about voices in your head. And these aren't the kinds that are

[Lady Luck]

like,

[Alex Ferrari]

kind, gentle spirit guys.

[Julie Clough]

No, no, this was. And so within three days, I just. I threw those away. This isn't going to work for me. My. I'm pretty sensitive to things. And so that was. That was hard. So I. I was going through a lot trying to. To overcome this grief. After this healing experience. It was a year later, we moved and we moved away from where we were. And I will say that my husband lost his faith in church and all of that pretty quickly after the kids passed away. But we moved. And that was a whole different wake up call. I went into another level of depression. Yeah, of course. And because I moved away from all of my kids, friends, I moved away from all of this, but in that space. And I only lived there for two years. We moved away. We were there for two years and I moved back. And that was interesting. But while I was there, while I was in Louisville, we moved to Louisville, Kentucky. I was having these impressions like, you know, you're supposed to do something with this. And I would dismiss it immediately. Yeah, like, who wants to hear this story? This is. Nobody wants to hear this.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's a downer.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, exactly. People would ask me how many children I have, and it's a hard question.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, my God.

[Julie Clough]

That's just triggering. That's a conversation starter for most people and. And they don't know what they're getting into when they ask that question.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's an innocent question. Yeah. Like, how's your day?

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, exactly. Well, actually, let me tell you so. So we had moved and I was going kind of going through this other level of depression. And interestingly, again, the spirit spoke to me and said, you're never going to go back to that place that you were. Because I was nervous. I was nervous I was going to go back to that darkness that I had felt before, But I got this reassurance that I wouldn't. And that just brought me to the next level of healing. So we talk about being awake, but we're awake, but we're constantly awaking to a new level.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's never a next level, if you will. A next level of a next level soul, if you will.

[Julie Clough]

Good. Good one. Good one. Yeah. But I kept. I kept. Kept getting this message that I needed to do something with this. And. And I kept thinking, oh, no, nobody wants to hear this story. But also the thought kept coming to me, I could have died too. There's a reason I'm still here. Why am I still here? And. And then I had an experience in 2012 where I was introduced to this couple, and this man had gone through some really challenging mental health issues. And he had. And he had experienced a healing and some healing from his experience, and he was helping other people. And I just met this couple, and at this lunch, my mom turns to me and says, julie, share your story. And I went, oh, yeah. So I did. Begrudgingly, I shared my story. And as we were walking out of that restaurant, that man and took me by the arm and he said, you're supposed to do something with this. He says, I don't know what it is. And this brings tears to my eyes, just saying it out loud. She says, I don't. I can't tell you what it is, but you're supposed to do something with this. And it was as if lightning struck me. It was as if my whole soul entered my body in that moment. It was as if God was standing in front of me saying. And he was telling me what I had been hearing, but ignoring. So it took me a little while to kind of figure out, like, what is that thing? What is that thing that I'm supposed to be doing? I didn't know what it was, but my eyes were open to it. And it was about a year after that, maybe two, somebody else said the same thing to me. You're supposed to be doing something with this.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah.

[Julie Clough]

And eventually I came across coaching. It was. And when I came across coaching, that just resonated with me. Oh, okay, I'm supposed to be coaching. And we had a family business, and I was an entrepreneur, and I was studying coaching, thinking, well, the low hanging fruit is I can help entrepreneurs with their mindset. But it kept coming back. I needed to talk about grief and healing. And my initial thought was because, like I said, I'd gone through all these years of therapy after the accident. And actually after that experience where I woke up, I went back to my therapist and I was like, why am I here? And she's like, you're good. And I walked out of her office and I thought, I'm good. But what I don't know what I'm supposed to do with my life now because three years before I was a homeschooled mom, I was, I was, I was in line to take over the homeschool group. I was, I thought that my kids would grow up, they would have kids and I would be the homeschool grandma that would go around to conferences speaking because I would speak at conferences. That's what I thought I would be doing. And so I walked out of her office thinking, yeah, I'm good, but I don't know who I am or what I'm supposed to be doing with my life. So I discovered coaching. And in that process, I thought that what I was going to be doing was helping people rebuild their Life After Loss, which was the name of my company, Build a Life After Loss, which I eventually sold, by the way. But at any rate, I created this whole program that.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

[Julie Clough]

Hey everybody.

[Lady Luck]

Lady Luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all, all summer long, I'm going to be celebrating by playing on spinquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a 30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

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[Julie Clough]

I thought it was safe.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Alex Ferrari]

about to hear is going to be

[Commercial Announcer]

filled with F words when you're hiring.

[Lady Luck]

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[Julie Clough]

to find fabulous people, only to get

[Lady Luck]

flooded with candidates who are just fine. Fortunately, ZipRecruiter figured out how to fix

[Julie Clough]

all that and right now you can

[Lady Luck]

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[Alex Ferrari]

Fantastic.

[Julie Clough]

So whether you need to hire 4,

[Lady Luck]

40 or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com Zip Zip to try ZipRecruiter for free. Don't forget that ZipRecruiter.com Zip finally that ZipRecruiter.com zip

[Alex Ferrari]

and now back to the show.

[Julie Clough]

I realized that I needed to not only have coaching skills, I needed grief skills. And then I began to develop a grief program and a model of healing and five foundations of growth. And it was remarkable working with people. And during that process, and I don't say this to just anybody, but I'm going to say this to you and the. Whoever happens to listen. I felt Elizabeth Kupler Ross in the room while I was writing that. Who is Elizabeth? So she is the pioneer of the five foundation or she's the pioneer of the five. Five stages of grief.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, wow. Really?

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. Palliative care, hospice, all of that.

[Alex Ferrari]

Wow.

[Julie Clough]

And she was there with me while I was writing this program. And at the time I thought, I actually didn't share that with anybody for a long time because I don't want to be, I don't want people. First of all, honestly, it sounds a little egotistical and I don't like that because we think of that in this world, but it's not like that on the other side.

[Alex Ferrari]

Like Jesus is talking to me. Yeah, right.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. And he does. And so, and, and, and that's right. And it's. But I, I said, I, I did end up telling a friend, I said, this is really strange, but I feel like Dr. Elizabeth Kubler Ross is with me while I'm writing this. And she literally broke into tears. She just like, like fell apart in that moment. Super sensitive. She's like, she absolutely is. So she can, she confirmed it for me in that moment. But as I was working with people, I would feel their loved ones in the room.

[Alex Ferrari]

So you were, you were opening up mediumship abilities, essentially.

[Julie Clough]

And I didn't, I wasn't intending to. It was just happening. But I didn't know how to say, hey, Alex, by the way, you know,

[Alex Ferrari]

Uncle Bob is behind you.

[Julie Clough]

Uncle Bob is here in the room whispering in my ear. And this is what he's telling me. But I would use the information they were giving me and it was so helpful. And. And again, I didn't know what to do with that. But I had learned to communicate with my daughter and my son and my brother. And at that point, it was 2020. My book had just come out. When I wrote my book, I was still very much in the. The Mormon bubble.

[Lady Luck]

Really?

[Alex Ferrari]

So you were. It's. You have not left the church yet?

[Julie Clough]

No.

[Alex Ferrari]

All of this is happening while you're in the church?

[Julie Clough]

Yes.

[Lady Luck]

Wow.

[Julie Clough]

But I was. I was teaching. It was funny, because in my mind, I would look at what was being taught, and I would think, we're all just, you know, very much. A lot of members are kind of like. Like early in their development. That's the way I would look at it. Right. In their spiritual development. That's the way I would see it. And then I started to see. Wait a second. A lot of this that I'm looking at, it's not feeling correct and not feeling right. It's not just the people around me. It's coming from the top. And I would start hearing these things from the top and go. That's not aligning with what I'm getting. So it was right after my book came out. 2020, the middle of the lockdown. I'm in a parking lot. It's middle of the summer. I get in the car, and I feel my friend's son with me. And he had just passed two weeks before. He was a young man. And I thought, I don't know what to do with this.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, you can't say anything to your friend.

[Julie Clough]

And I did the only thing I could think to do. I pulled out my phone, and I just started putting the messages that I was hearing in my phone. And eventually I delivered that message to her.

[Alex Ferrari]

How did that work?

[Julie Clough]

She's pretty private, and I was already struggling to kind of stay connected with her. And we lived in different areas at that time and so forth, so I know she got the message, but I didn't really hear too much from her after that. But then a year or two, I don't even know how much time had passed, but I was telling another friend, and again, I wasn't sharing a lot of this. I was very much in the spiritual closet. But I was telling another friend about my experience with, you know, having this young man show up or having a. I'd be working with somebody whose son had passed, you know, at his own hand. And I would hear her son in my ear just like. Just like. Like as strongly as he could, saying, I don't want her to feel guilty. This isn't about her. Yeah, this isn't about her. This is not her fault. And so all this was happening and my friend said to me, what if you leaned into it a little bit?

[Alex Ferrari]

This is a non Mormon friend.

[Julie Clough]

This is a Mormon friend.

[Alex Ferrari]

Interesting.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

So they're fat. She was fascinated with what was going on.

[Julie Clough]

Right. Well, and there's a lot of people in the LDS community who are very. Are energy healers who are very involved in the woo. Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

Really?

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

But that's frowned upon. It is, but they keep it quiet.

[Julie Clough]

But it's not interesting, really. There are a lot of people living very, very close to the. To the Spirit. And interesting. It's really interesting.

[Alex Ferrari]

And still go to church on Sunday.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. And so in this experience where she said, lean into it, I thought, okay. So I sat down at my desk one day and I thought, okay, I'm going to lean into this a little bit. And immediately I felt the daughter of one past client that I hadn't talked to for a while and the father of another client. Well, what happened with this father is this father gave me this message. And at the end of the message, he says, tell my daughter that when she gets married, she has children, I'll be there for her. Well, when the last time I had met with this woman, it had been a while, and she had had very difficult relationships, and I didn't even know if she wanted to get married. So I was very resistant to that idea of having that message. So I kind of argued with Spirit. This is what I do. I argue with Spirit. And I said, I can't really say that. And it was so insistent. The message was so insistent. So I delivered the message. Message I actually wrote to her. And I said, this might seem a little weird, but, you know, I had a visit with your father. Are you interested in the message?

[Alex Ferrari]

Pass the tea.

[Julie Clough]

She said, yes, absolutely. And so I delivered the message to her. She said, and she was so grateful. She was so grateful. And I kid you not, less than two months later, her aunt, who I was connected with, posted pictures of her wedding. She was actually engaged when I received that message. She was actually planning her mess. Her wedding when I received that message. And I had no idea. Wow. And I had argued with Spirit, saying, I can't say that.

[Alex Ferrari]

She's not even married.

[Julie Clough]

She doesn't want to. I don't think she wants to get married.

[Alex Ferrari]

And Spirit's like, we know better.

[Julie Clough]

We know better.

[Alex Ferrari]

So. So at what point did you finally officially leave. Leave the. The church? And how did that How'd that go?

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, it went okay. My immediate family, my husband and three of my four living children had all left the church at that point, had already left, and I was still, you know, going every week, and. But I was seeing the handwriting on the wall, and there were things that were. There were more things coming to my attention, and it was probably. It's been about three years ago when I started to exit, so it hasn't been that long ago. And honestly, I think I would probably still be in the angry stages of things if it weren't for all the work that I've done in grief and understanding grief. And when you. When you leave a foundation, a religion, an organization, even if somebody leaves a career, they've been working someplace for 20 years and they leave grief, it's a grief. It's a grief experience. And a lot of times we just associate grief with a death, but it's. Anything that we have lost creates feelings of grief and that. And it was really challenging. And so luckily, my kids and my husband, we're all great. Even my, you know, one. One child who's still in great, great relationship, but there's some distant. There's some other relationships that are a little challenging.

[Alex Ferrari]

I could only. I could only imagine.

[Julie Clough]

And I. I don't have as many. As much association with. Yeah. But I had lived. I had lived in Florida, I'd lived in Texas, and I'd lived in Kentucky. I'd lived in Utah. I'd lived all over the place. And. And I have a lot of followers on Facebook, and I thought everybody still sees me as this very devout Mormon girl, and I. I'm not that anymore. And I knew that I couldn't be authentic and still have people thinking this is what I was or what. How I felt or my belief system. So I came out publicly on Facebook, which is a big no, no in the church. In the church.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yes.

[Julie Clough]

And. But it was. It was absolutely beautiful, the responses I got, because the members were polite mostly. And then the. But the private messages I got. I got dozens of private messages from people who were either trying to leave or were still in, but had left mentally. And they weren't believing it anymore, but they were still very. Seen as active in the church.

[Alex Ferrari]

That's.

[Julie Clough]

So that was really sad and hard. And. And then I became more public, and then I got all the backlash and all the. Yeah. And. And I. I know people are not. I know people just want the best for. For other people in general. In fact, I'll tell you this story. You know, after the kids passed away that day, like, in the hospital. I. I received this message that I was not to be concerned about what other people say or think about what happened, which was really interesting, because a lot of people, as I've worked with a lot of people who are grieving, I've seen a lot of people that really hung up on what. What somebody says.

[Alex Ferrari]

Oh, yeah.

[Julie Clough]

But people are just doing the best they can. And I. I'm in this, you know, I. I been in the grief world, you know, working in the grief world, and I still say dumb things, you know, when I'm trying to. Trying to comfort someone. So that was such a huge, huge blessing to me to receive that message, because there were, for the most part, no matter what anybody said, I just knew that they were just doing the best they could to comfort and to be there for me.

[Alex Ferrari]

So as you have gone through this, we've kind of hinted upon it that there's certain things that have opened up in you, certain abilities that have opened up with you, and you've been dealing with all of that as well as everything else. You really did go through that spiritual supermarket and picked up a lot.

[Julie Clough]

I did. I'm like, I have a little of this and a little of that. You know, my life is good. But, you know, even my therapist, at one point, she's like, I want you to write down all the losses that you've had. And I filled, like, five pages, and I came back. And she's like, this is really unusual for somebody to still be speaking.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah. And not in the same asylum somewhere.

[Julie Clough]

And not to say, you know, it's not a competition. So if you experience the loss. I just did a reading for someone the other night, and her father, she said her first loss was her father at 60, and she was 60, is what I'm saying, when he passed. And that is real. The grief is real. We all experience our grief at 100%, no matter. But I think part of. I always felt like the grief. Grief and the losses that I had previous to my kids passing really helped me because I had already had those experiences. And so I had that conversation on the back porch with myself. Can I come back from this? Right, right. Yeah. I. So a few years ago, this was after 2020, I started seeing twelves everywhere. What is going on? And I was, I. You don't know this about me, but math was my favorite subject. I'm a very linear thinker. I'm, like, very black and white. Like, this is truth. This isn't, you know, blah, blah, Blah. Right. And I started seeing these 12s everywhere and it opened me up to like angel numbers. And I started searching angel because I couldn't ignore it. And I'm born on the 12th of the month, which I didn't say, but my birthday was the same weekend as the accident. So my birthday was the 12th of May, and the accident was on the 13th of May. So there was a lot going on, a lot of energy there. But the twelves were everywhere. I couldn't ignore them anymore. Started learning about angels, started connecting to angels at a different level. Started receiving messages at a different level. Started understanding the spirit that was speaking to me all my life, that I didn't understand that, oh, I can actually go and speak to that spirit anytime. I can sit down and type out a question. Yeah, type out a question and receive an answer. Right. So I, I started learning about angels and I went to Cabo. This is about three years ago, three and a half years ago. And we went on a whale watching trip. And I was really grumpy because it was middle of the afternoon, I was tired. We weren't actually getting on a boat then when we got on a boat, it was a dumb boat. It was like an oversized life raft, seriously. And I thought, this is the dumbest whale watching trip ever. We'd never been on one before and I was excited about it. But when we got there, I was like, this is really dumb. And we're like halfway through the trip and we're not seeing anything except for a tail, like way off in the distance. And. And I heard in my head, julie, you have angels. And so I started repeating in my head, thank you angels, for bringing the whales close to the boat. Thank you angels, for bringing the boat close to the whales. And I just started repeating that like a mantra. And within 10 minutes, we were surrounded by whales. It was the most blissful experience of my life to date. Honestly, like, it feels like an out of body experience. I was so awed by the experience that I couldn't even take out my phone.

[Alex Ferrari]

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. Forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on spinquest. And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10, all the table games you love with hundreds of slot games and real cash Prizes. That's at spinquest.com s p I n

[Commercial Announcer]

q u e. Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited visit spinquest.com for more details. You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft.

[Julie Clough]

I thought it was safe.

[Commercial Announcer]

If that happens, LifeLock gives you a US based restoration agent who will stick by your side from start to finish. Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims. Your age agent handles it all. In fact, we're so confident restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 30% with promo code [e-mail] terms apply.

[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Julie Clough]

And I'm watching these whales and then a whole pod of dolphins came and swam next to the boat. I mean, it was spectacular. Wow. And then our excursion guide said, we've got to go back. Like, you know, this is over. And all the whales started to swim off and then this one whale came up, put his tail up and started waving goodbye. I know that's not technically what they're doing, but that's what it feels like when you're at SeaWorld or you're on a whale watching trip. And the next day that voice came to me and said, start teaching about angels.

[Alex Ferrari]

Wow.

[Julie Clough]

And I went home that next week and started doing webinars about angels. And, and then that all led to mediumship and, and channeling. And channeling. And that was crazy. I was actually taking a class about Akashic Records.

[Alex Ferrari]

Uh huh.

[Julie Clough]

And in this class we were supposed to be practicing reading for someone. And as I was reading for someone, all of a sudden words started coming out of my mouth before they were consciously going through my head. And I, I thought, what is that? And I'd had a couple experiences like that in the past where I said something to my husband one day and I was like, I am so sorry. I have no idea where that came from. But it, it changed his life. Like he changed his health routine because of what I said in that moment. But I would have never consciously have said that. But what I did. But at any rate, yeah, it's been, it's been a miraculous, interesting journey.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, I mean since you, since you. We brought it up now with the channeling.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

You've seen the show. So we like, we always love having channelers on and talk. What is your process of connecting to angels? And if we can connect to them, can we ask them a few questions about.

[Julie Clough]

We can. They call themselves the Council of Wisdom and Good Branding. Good Branding Collective. Yeah, I won't go into all how that came about, but at any rate, yeah, they call Themselves, The Council of Wisdom. It's a collective. I have tried to get a number from them, and they're like, yeah, don't worry about it. I'm like, okay, I won't. And my process is I just get quiet for a minute and then I go into channel.

[Alex Ferrari]

And so it's trans.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. And internally, how it happens for me is I will hear a phrase in my head and I will hear it repeated, and then I know that we're there. I don't know if that makes sense,

[Alex Ferrari]

but that's the first I've heard of that. I mean, that's. Every channel is different. Everyone does their thing, and then the energy that comes through them. Very different personalities, very different energy. What I always tell people, and I'm sure you kind of gone through this as now kind of being more public about your channeling. Is people like, is it real?

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

You know, is it an evil spirit? Is it that kind of stuff? And I always tell people, I don't care what the package is. Is the information good?

[Julie Clough]

Right.

[Alex Ferrari]

Is it helping you? If it isn't, let it go. It's okay.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. Well, anything that we say, period. I don't claim to be the guru of anything. I think the days of the guru are gone.

[Alex Ferrari]

I think the days of the guru, as it was laid out for us in the west is gone. I think the traditional Indian, Vedic aspect of the guru, the yogi.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

That's different. Because a true guru does not say, I am the way. The true guru teaches you how to get back to the power that's within you.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, I love that.

[Alex Ferrari]

That's what all of these did.

[Julie Clough]

I love that.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah. Christ was always talking about the power of the kingdom of heaven is within you. What I can do, you can do.

[Lady Luck]

And more.

[Julie Clough]

More.

[Alex Ferrari]

These are the. These are basic core teachings of Christ. Buddha did the same thing. Vishnu did this, everyone. A true guru, true guide, a true teacher teaches you how to find the power within you. That's what we do here. That's what we always. So I do agree with you. The guru as the expert.

[Julie Clough]

The expert for you.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah. Everything I am, I am obviously much more evolved than you. You must follow me. And then it's just another. It's another dogmatic path. Whereas the guru should be challenge. Everything I say is this resonating with you? Are you. Are you getting into you?

[Julie Clough]

It's like I start every session that I do with people. You are your highest authority. Every session.

[Alex Ferrari]

Discernment is something that needs to be taught more.

[Julie Clough]

So no matter what we talk about here. You choose. Choose what you do. If.

[Alex Ferrari]

Exactly. So that's why I always say. And then. And then the. The argument's like, well, it must be evil spirits or dark energies. I'm like, they're horrible at their job. Because generally speaking, I have had many channels on, and none of them have gone, you must eat the goat. On the third. Like, no, no. It's usually love and light.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, it's. It's interesting, too, because early on when I was channeling and I would channel for people and I would, would. I would literally, I'd be hearing the words as they were coming out of my mouth, and I'd be thinking, should you be saying that? Should you be saying it that way?

[Alex Ferrari]

You question it.

[Julie Clough]

I was. My consciousness was in the background questioning.

[Alex Ferrari]

So the funny thing is I'm gonna. I'm gonna just bring in one of my favorite channels, Paul Selig. Paul is similar. He argues with them, and he has the guides that come in. And while we were doing. We did a mastery course here a couple weeks ago, actually. They come in. It is hilarious. We start recording. And the first lesson, it's like, he's in the way. He's trying to do it. And they're like, get out of the way. Second they get out of the way. He gets like, okay, I don't have to do the heavy lift. And let them do the heavy lifting. They come in. But the funny thing about it is he would say, welcome to lesson number to. And then the guys would just take over and like, we will now talk the way we would. Like, not the man and not the man in the chair. And then just start going into the lesson. I'm like, dying. I'm like. And every lesson was like, we will not. We will do what we want, not what the man in the chair would like to say. And this is how we will say it. And it's just genius to listen to. So they do have their, like, their energy that they just want to kind of put through. But that must be funny when you're like, wait a minute, it. And sometimes with. Because he's the only one that can. That argues that I could think of off top of my head. That argues with.

[Julie Clough]

I, I. I don't like having that reputation, but I do say that. I do do.

[Alex Ferrari]

But no, it's not a reputation. No, no, but it's not a reputation.

[Julie Clough]

Actually.

[Alex Ferrari]

It actually level. It's another level of authenticity for you because you are questioning. Something doesn't make sense to you. Like, wait, I don't feel comfortable saying this. Explain it deeper. And I've. And I've heard. I've heard Paul, sometimes the guys will be like, like, hold on a second. We must stop now because Paul is questioning the qu. And that kind of thing.

[Julie Clough]

Well, in the middle of my channeling, especially when I'm doing it for myself, sure, I will. They'll. They'll start to say something, and in the back of my brain I'm like, but what about this? And what about this? And they'll say, okay, according to what you're. And they'll start answering the questions that I'm bringing forward. So it's interesting.

[Alex Ferrari]

Well, let's bring in the council of wisdom and let's see what they have to say.

[Julie Clough]

Okay, let's do it. Thank you. Thank you for having us here today. We are so grateful for this opportunity. We are grateful for this opportunity to share love and light and peace. And we are grateful. Thank you.

[Alex Ferrari]

Thank you for being here. We've been talking a lot about grief. In this conversation, can you give us any insights on how people can deal, who are struggling right now with a tremendous amount of loss or grief, what they can do to help them get out of this darkness?

[Julie Clough]

The darkness is real. The experience is real. It is to be in the experience. It is to not try to bypass the experience, but to be in the experience. To feel what you're feeling, but also feel those moments of joy, feel those moments of passion. When those moments arise, do not allow yourself to feel that. You must suppress any of the emotions that you are having. It will feel like a very, we might say, violent roller coaster in the moment because your emotions will be all over the place. This is to be expected. This is to be expected. And you can stay within that energy, to sit with that energy, to be with that energy of grief and to also be in the energy of happiness when it. When it arises, because it will arise and many will push the goodness away. And we would invite you to not push the goodness away, but to allow all of the emotions to arise and to move through. It is the moving through that you are experiencing. It is the moving of the energy. Energy. Energy is, after all, emotions are energy in motion.

[Alex Ferrari]

Can you explain to people listening why these. These terrible things, the way we look at them, as terrible things or tragic things or traumatic things happen to us in our lives?

[Julie Clough]

Well, from our vantage point, it is challenging for us to share the answer to that question because we do not want to negate. We do not want to overlook the pain that is caused by these experiences. We acknowledge the pain caused by these experiences. And our explanation may feel somewhat clinical, it may feel somewhat cold, in that you are having these experiences for your learning. You are having these experience for the depth of your knowledge. You are having these experiences for the growth of your spiritual development. Especially for those who are willing to look at their experiences that way. There are many. There are many. There are many who will not take the journey. They will stay within the pain of the experience. And that is, is part of their journey here. It is not to, from your vantage point, or from Julie's, or from anyone else's, to talk them out of what they are experiencing or feeling, as it would not be beneficial to anyone to talk them out of anything that they're experiencing or feeling. It is rather to be with them in that experience. But for those who are willing, who are willing to move through the grief, they can look upon this grief and this experience as something that their soul chose before they came here. Their soul chose from a space of love and acceptance and peace, not from this space in which they find themselves now. So it would make sense that the soul would choose things that the humanness that you are here would not understand.

[Alex Ferrari]

Can you explain to people who are watching, who have dealt with trauma, loss, what truly happens to the soul once they leave the body?

[Julie Clough]

What truly happens to the soul once it leaves the body is it returns to that which it is. It returns to the higher knowing. It returns to the higher presence of that being, of that spirit. And each soul will have a little different experience transitioning. Although each soul will be accompanied, there is no soul that is alone. We, we want you to know that there is no soul alone in passing, in death. There are always spirits around them that are there to assist them in their transition. Every soul will have a little different experience based on their belief systems as they are letting go of the earthly realm and as they are passing into the spirit realm. But at the end, all souls will be in what you might call heaven. We do find that word, we will say not fully complete. But it is a reference point by which many of you can understand.

[Alex Ferrari]

Can you please let people know, is there such a place as a hell or a negative experience for souls?

[Julie Clough]

There is no hell. There is a residual, we will call it of the earth that is taken with a soul when it leaves the earth. And so some people will come back from a near death experience talking about a hellish experience. But it is their soul, it is their spirit letting go of the earthly programming that they have experienced here. It is not an actual place or a destination as much as it is an experience of that particular soul, of that particular spirit that must go through, and we say must lightly. They don't necessarily have to go through that, but it may be in their process to go through that, to experience the light as they move from the darkness of this earth to the light of their eternal existence.

[Alex Ferrari]

For all the souls who are watching this episode now and in the future, what is the message that you believe that they need to hear right now? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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[Julie Clough]

I thought it was safe.

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[Alex Ferrari]

And now back to the show.

[Julie Clough]

It is to believe that you all, each one of you, each one of you, each one of you have spirit team. You have a spirit guide. You have spirit angels and ancestors and family members and so much love and light that is pouring, pouring from our dimension to your dimension and inviting you forward, inviting you into the ex. Inviting you into the light that they are here to promote the light, to promote your ascension from the darkness of your world here into the light that it can be that the light of. We will say heaven on earth for to use a simple phrase, that would be maybe helpful. We thank you again for this opportunity. We are so very, very grateful for your platform and for the opportunity to speak at this time. We thank you. Goodbye.

[Alex Ferrari]

And how was that?

[Julie Clough]

Great.

[Alex Ferrari]

How do you feel?

[Julie Clough]

I feel great.

[Alex Ferrari]

Do you remember it?

[Julie Clough]

I do. There's like, there's little pieces. In fact, it was funny because in the middle of it, I remember thinking, oh, I hadn't ever thought of it that way. As they were talking, talking and then. But now I can't even tell you what it was. So I have to go back and listen because it was very beautiful. It's a lot of times when I will channel and then I'll go back and I'll read it, I'm like, wow, there was a lot more there than I thought there was. So. Yeah. And it's a lot of. It's the energy too.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah. How is, how does your. Because normally, from my understanding, you have to kind of ramp your nervous system up.

[Julie Clough]

I knew you were going to say that. And. And to be quite frank, my body has gone. Has been through. It's kind of like I've taken it on bumper car ride and it's, it's a, it's a little, it's a little beat up, but we're doing okay.

[Alex Ferrari]

It's. It sounds like that from your life experiences, you have been just already building up to a place where it just turned on.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

As opposed to others that have to really work at it because you've gone through so much trauma. Trauma.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

In your life that.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. It happened very quickly and without trying.

[Commercial Announcer]

Really.

[Julie Clough]

Without really trying. It was kind of crazy. Yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

I was gonna say.

[Julie Clough]

But I will say. Okay, so I do want to back up because remember I told you I went through two and a half years of therapy and, and I had this journal and she was asking me to write things. I wasn't doing my job because I wasn't doing anything. But a month after that light switch went on, I started writing in that journal again. And to see the difference is like, wow. Wow. But I've been doing that since 2010. I've been writing questions and writing down the answers since 2010.

[Alex Ferrari]

So you've been slowly building up.

[Julie Clough]

I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't realize that. This is interesting. Yeah. That's fascinating. It was much later I was like, where did this come from? And because I was doing hour long sessions with people a month after this started happening vocally, I'm like, I don't know how this happened.

[Alex Ferrari]

And when you do a session with the, with the, the Council of. The Council of Wisdom, they. It's just like doing a session.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. And I would actually come in and out.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah.

[Julie Clough]

So I would come out and I'd say, okay, what's, what's your, you know, next session? And then. Yep. Exactly.

[Alex Ferrari]

Do. Can you, can you jump in real quick? I have a question for them.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alex Ferrari]

I have a question.

[Julie Clough]

Passion for. Thank you. Thank You, Alex, we are ready for your question.

[Alex Ferrari]

My. My question to you is, can you explain to people what a soul group or a soul family is?

[Julie Clough]

A soul group or a soul family is a group of souls that have made a bond, have made a contract, have created a. A, for, again, lack of a better word, a bond of energy in which they travel through space and time. Time, again, from a space, from a spirit standpoint. Together, they travel through iterations of Earth and maybe other galaxies, other planets, other dimensions together. And it is not that they are always together. It is not that they are always together. It is that they will choose a group to go in together. And it is much like a parachuter. They have the helicopter above and the operators and the helicopter, and a group has decided to parachute down, and they still have the part of the group in the helicopter making sure that the terrain is correct and that everything is. The mission is being executed as needed. And so that's the way that we would explain it is not that everyone that you know on Earth is part of your soul family, but those in which you have a strong, energetic bond. For example, some people will say they met their spouse, and the first time they met them, they said, oh, what are you doing here? And yet they had never seen them before. And so it is not that they are all here together at one time. It is that there is an energy that propels this group forward to experience things as a group. Does that make sense?

[Alex Ferrari]

It does, it does. It does make sense. But there's multiple players, if you will. If it's a cast of actors going through different adventures in the material world. There are actors that kind of come in and out depending on the lifetime. So let's say there's four group core, but in the next lifetime, you might be bringing in someone else who is maybe just an uncle in this lifetime or maybe a distant friend in this lifetime, but in the next lifetime, they're your father. Other things like that. Does that make sense?

[Julie Clough]

Yes, it does make sense. And we love that you brought forward this idea of an actor, because we're thinking of, like, a play that would be put on. You have some members of the group that is putting on the play that are on the stage and others that are behind the scenes. And so this is very much how a soul family or a soul group would work, that some would be in front and others would be behind the scenes.

[Alex Ferrari]

And. And finally, is there any other message that you would like to leave for the audience?

[Julie Clough]

We would say to enjoy your experiences here, to not be take spirituality quite so seriously. Yes, it is. Has its serious elements to it and we are here to love and guide you. But we, we, again, we just bring forward so much love, so much peace, so much calm to your soul, to your being, to your experience here. And we invite you to connect with that energy and to be with that energy and to let go of any expectations that it's going to look a certain way. Not everyone is going to be a channel. Not everyone is going to be a medium. Medium. Not everyone is going to be a doctor or an attorney. It is in your soul plan to play out your life time and your life experience in the manner in which you have planned it.

[Alex Ferrari]

Thank you. And we're back.

[Julie Clough]

We're back.

[Alex Ferrari]

I just had a question about the soul family. I needed to, I wanted to get their opinion of it.

[Julie Clough]

That was really interesting.

[Alex Ferrari]

Yeah, you're like, that's fascinating.

[Julie Clough]

Yeah. Because they'll bring, they'll drive, drop pictures into my head. And, and so they, they showed me the whole when I just got back from New York. So it's interesting that they brought that in.

[Alex Ferrari]

The Broadway, the Broadway vibe of the whole thing. It's like I said of Hamilton, Julie, where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing?

[Julie Clough]

Juliecloft.com it's that simple. You go to juliecliffe.com I love showing up on Instagram. I have a YouTube at Julie Cleft Coaching where I do. I have a podcast called Light the Day where I do interviews similar to you, not at a scale, but. And I, I do share channeled messages on Sundays. I just started that probably two months ago. I share channeled messages on Sundays and some other things that happened there and Facebook and all the things. So yeah, juliecliffe.com if you go to juliecliffe.com right. Kind of right underneath the header, you can download an angel guide and it's all about connecting with our angels.

[Alex Ferrari]

Julie, it's been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for not only being here and this amazing conversation, but having the bravery of what you're doing to come out, to leave an organized religion that didn't connect with you or vibe with you and to publicly talk about this grief in a way that is helping people. So I applaud you and I appreciate everything you're doing to appreciate awaken the planet.

[Julie Clough]

Thank you so much. It's been absolute pleasure.

[Alex Ferrari]

Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today. If you feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll find the show notes for this episode at next levelsoul.com forward/706 and if your soul is craving an even deeper journey, step into Next Level Soul tv, our streaming sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries, original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks and transformative teachings. It's a space created to support your awakening, your healing, and your return to the truth of who you really are. Begin your journey at Next LevelSoul TV. Until next time. Keep expanding, keep seeking and keep walking your path towards the next level of your soul.

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[Julie Clough]

Oh no.

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