This is our unabridged interview with Laurie Santos.

Many of us spend years chasing the things we believe will make us happy, success, recognition, the next promotion, the perfect relationship, only to discover they don’t satisfy the way we expected.

Why are we so often wrong about what will make our lives better?

Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos, creator of the most popular course in Yale’s history, Psychology and the Good Life, joins Lee C. Camp to explore the science of well-being. Drawing from decades of research in psychology and happiness science, Santos explains why our minds often “miswant” things we think will make us happy, but won’t actually do so. We cover how social comparison continually moves the goal post of our satisfaction and why practices like gratitude, social connection, and self-compassion actually do move the needle on well-being.

Key Ideas

Correct Our “Miswanting”

Humans consistently mispredict what will make them happy, often overvaluing achievements, money, or status while underestimating the power of relationships, gratitude, and meaningful activity.

Practice the Bronze Mindset

Happiness often depends on our reference point; learning to focus on what we have rather than what we narrowly missed can transform how we experience success and disappointment.

Invest in Real Connection

Genuine social interaction—from deep friendships to small conversations with strangers—remains one of the strongest predictors of long-term well-being.

Embrace Negative Emotions as Signals

Feelings like sadness, loneliness, or overwhelm are not failures of happiness but important psychological signals that guide us toward needed changes.

Turn Knowledge Into Practice

Knowing the science of happiness isn’t enough; lasting flourishing comes through habits—small, repeated behaviors like gratitude, rest, and time affluence.

Take Baby Steps Toward Well-Being

Even small practices—ten minutes of meditation, a gratitude journal entry, or a meaningful conversation—can gradually shift our lives toward greater happiness.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Laurie Santos⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.

Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

254: Unabridged Interview: Laurie Santos