This is our unabridged interview with James Kimmel, Jr.

There's a grievance that keeps coming back to you: in the shower, in traffic, at two in the morning. You replay it, win the argument again and settle the score again. It feels like justice, but it never quite satisfies.

James Kimmel Jr. spent decades trying to understand that pull. At seventeen, he came within seconds of committing a mass shooting, then drove away and devoted his life to the question of why he had wanted it so badly.

Now on the faculty of Yale's medical school, he makes a startling, evidence-backed claim: revenge is a literal addiction. A grievance activates the pain network in your brain, and your brain reaches for the dopamine hit of payback. It's why mass shooters are "grievance collectors," and why social media, in his words, has become a grievance transmission machine. But there's a second half to the story. Forgiveness, he argues, is a wonder drug we're already hardwired to take, one that stops the pain rather than masking it and asks nothing of the person who wronged you. Lee is invited to try it on the spot during the interview, and you can hear what happens. Listen as they discuss James’ new book, ⁠The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World's Deadliest Addiction - and How to Overcome It⁠.

Name the Grievance Revenge often begins with real pain, and recognizing that pain is the first step toward freedom.

Understand Your Brain Kimmel explains how grievance activates the brain’s pain network and makes retaliation feel rewarding.

Resist Revenge Culture From social media to entertainment, our culture often trains us to nurse grievances and seek payback.

Forgive Without Excusing Forgiveness does not require pardon, reconciliation, or staying in unsafe relationships; it can be an internal act of healing.

Practice Letting Go Imagining forgiveness, even briefly, can interrupt pain and open space for better choices.

Heal the Common Good Kimmel suggests that forgiveness is not only personal medicine but a social good that can help communities flourish.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with James Kimmel, Jr.⁠

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No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠

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