Podcast
No Such Thing as Normal
Hosted by NZME · EN
At least 20% of New Zealanders are believed to be neurodivergent, but there is very little awareness, understanding and support for people with conditions such as ADHD, Autism and Dyslexia.
Sonia Gray has a neurodivergent daughter and is an ADHDer herself. In this 10-part series she’ll talk to dozens of experts and people with a lived-experience of neurodiversity to better understand how we can support and celebrate those whose brains are wired differently.
No Such Thing as Normal is brought to you by NZ Herald and Team Uniform, with support from NZ on Air. New episodes are available every Saturday.
22episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
35. Neurodiversity in Aotearoa: How are we doing?
2w ago00:44:43Tap to summarizeIn the past decade, neurodivergence has become far more visible in Aotearoa. But awareness is not the whole story - the real question is whether neurodivergent people and their whānau feel truly seen and understood. There will always be gaps in services, funding and support. But not every change depends on a budget. Some begin with how we see neurodivergent people, how we listen to them, and whether we are willing to make room for who they really are. This episode opens with a family getting ready for school. On the surface, it looks smooth. But for many neurodivergent families, the hardest parts are hidden - what the world sees is often only a fraction of what parents are managing. We also hear from Raiha Tahuri, whose non-speaking autistic son Tomokia has taken his whānau on “a journey of self-reflection”, and opened their eyes to new ways of understanding communication, belonging and difference. Autism researcher Dr Jessica Tupou joins the conversation to discuss how Te Ao Māori, mātauranga Māori and collective wellbeing could help shape a more inclusive, neurodiversity-affirming Aotearoa. The challenges facing neurodivergent families are real, and the need for better support is undeniable. But if we focus solely on where the gaps are we risk missing what neurodivergent people have to teach us. This episode asks whether Aotearoa New Zealand is ready to build a society that recognises both the support they need and the gifts they bring. In this episode: The hidden reality behind a child who “looks fine” at school The emotional and financial cost for parents in New Zealand when the system does not fit their child Why meaningful change doesn’t always depend on funding The unexpected gifts of listening to, and embracing, neurodivergence The importance of Te Ao Māori perspectives in the way we understand difference Why support needs to be culturally grounded The advantages of being a small, interconnected country What true neuro-inclusion could look like in Aotearoa No Such Thing as Normal is made with support for NZ On AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →34. Mental health, medication and neurodivergent burnout
3w ago00:36:44Tap to summarizeAnxiety, depression, chronic stress and low self-esteem are common co-occurring conditions for many neurodivergent young people. But are these struggles caused by neurodivergence itself, or by trying to fit into environments that don’t work for them? Child and adolescent psychiatrist Darryl-Lee Prince says not only is she seeing more school refusal and shutdown, but also more complex presentations. Among them, neurodivergent burnout. Professor Dave Coghill unpacks what the evidence says about SSRIs, therapy, non-stimulant ADHD medication and non-drug treatments. This episode is about what helps. And why these young people are not broken, but in need of the right support, understanding and environments that recognise their strengths. In this episode Neurodivergent burnout and masking Anxiety, dysregulation and school refusal When SSRIs can help Why therapy needs to be tailored for those who are autistic, ADHD or AuDHD Non-stimulant ADHD medication The truth about the effects of sugar, food colouring, fish oils and brain training on ADHD symptoms Is the information on TikTok trustworthy? No Such Thing as Normal is made with support from NZ ON AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →33. What can science tell us about neurodivergent brains?
4w ago00:40:00Tap to summarizeIf you - or your child - is neurodivergent, it can often feel like the world doesn’t always take you seriously. The challenges might be huge, but they’re largely invisible, and often unpredictable. So life can become a cycle of apologies and explanations. But advances in science are beginning to change this. In this episode we look at some of the important research happening here in Aotearoa. From brain imaging studies into ADHD, to genetic research revealing the biological pathways of autism. As these brain differences become measurable, the impact on individual lives is profound. In this episode: What brain scans are revealing about ADHD and the role of movement Why those with ADHD struggle to hold two ideas in their mind at one time The emerging science behind the genetic basis of autism Why identifying specific genetic variants can be life-changing for families The ethical considerations of autism research, and why community involvement matters The importance of having a biological explanation for differences Guests: Dr Jessie Jacobsen and Dr Ruth Monk: Centre for Brain Research, University of Auckland Dr Gil Newburn and Paul Condron: Mātai Medical Research Institute To support the work of the Centre for Brain Research click here No Such Thing as Normal is made with the support of NZ On AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →32. ADHD and Perimenopause: The Perfect Storm
Apr 2400:43:51Tap to summarizeFor many women, perimenopause brings more than just hot flushes. The impact on their cognition and mood is so extreme it feels like the chair has been pulled out from under them. Strategies that once held everything together stop working. Anxiety spikes, brain fog sets in, and confidence takes a hit. In this episode, Dr Rachael Sumner discusses why hormonal changes can hit ADHD brains harder - not just in perimenopause, but throughout their lives. And we look at why so many women are only discovering their ADHD in mid-life. Research is still catching up, but this episode helps shed some light on a hidden struggle affecting thousands of women, and offers validation, understanding, and a way forward. In this episode: Why ADHD symptoms often worsen during perimenopause The role of estrogen in supporting dopamine and serotonin The link between ADHD and PMDD (Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder)Why neurodivergent women may be more sensitive to hormonal shifts across the lifespan. Why so many women are diagnosed with ADHD in their 40s and 50s The collapse of coping strategies and ‘unmasking’ Separating ADHD symptoms from hormonal changes The mental health impact: including anxiety, burnout and emotional dysregulation Why research into women’s health is still lagging behind The power of connection, validation and being understood Guests Dr Rachael Sumner, Senior Research Fellow, University of Auckland Dr Jacqui Johnson, ADHD Coach Partnering with ADHD Fiona Winfield, ADHD Coach Fiona Winfield And a special thanks to the women from the workshop - When ADHD meets Menopause. For more information on upcoming workshops go to A Hot Mess No Such Thing as Normal is made with the support of NZ On AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →31. Gender diversity & neurodiversity: Understanding the intersection
Apr 1700:43:27Tap to summarizeNeurodivergent young people are more likely to question their gender identity, and it can be a confusing and confronting time. Not just for the individual, but also for their loved ones. The support and validation of families is vital, but many feel unprepared; struggling to even navigate things like the role of pronouns. This episode gives some insight into the unique way a number of autistic and ADHD young people experience identity - including gender identity. Through deeply personal stories and expert insight, we look at how families can best support young people as they navigate this complex space, and how they can reframe it as a natural period of exploration. At the heart of this conversation is mental health. The statistics for those at this intersection are confronting, but responsibility for better outcomes extends beyond immediate families; it rests with society as a whole. Greater awareness of lived experience can help reduce stigma - and with it, much of the suffering. As can recognising the immense courage it takes to live authentically, especially when that identity sits outside societal norms. In this episode: Adolescence: a time of identity formation for all young people. The mental health risks and what can significantly reduce them The role of interoception in identity The reality for parents: Uncertainty, and the fear of ‘getting it wrong’. The impact of stigma, and what it feels like to navigate the world as non-binary or trans and neurodivergent Practical advice for parents: how to support without rushing or shutting things down Why authenticity isn’t a choice No Such Thing as Normal is made with support from NZ On AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →30. Neurodiversity at work: why traditional workplaces fail ‘different thinkers’
Apr 1000:35:34Tap to summarizeWhy do so many neurodivergent people struggle in the workplace; even when they are highly capable? In this episode, Sonia speaks to workplace strategist Rich Rowley about why modern workplaces value one narrow style of thinking, and how that can leave ADHD, autistic and dyslexic employees exhausted, ashamed and underperforming. Rich argues neurodivergent people are not simply workers who need accommodations and support; they’re an untapped valuable resource for organisations. Neurodivergent minds often excel at complex problem-solving, and workplace culture can either unlock or suppress that potential. Rich says that when organisations get this right, every metric improves - including the bottom line. Because true neuroinclusion benefits everyone. Guest: Rich Rowley For more on Brainbadge go to https://neurofusion.co.nz/ In this episode: Why ADHD, autistic and dyslexic employees often struggle in traditional workplaces The hidden toll of masking, burnout and “fitting in” at work Why neurodivergent people may excel at solving complex problems How businesses may be overlooking their most valuable thinkers The Values–Decisions Gap Why psychological safety is the foundation of true neuroinclusion How better workplace design can benefit all employees No Such Thing as Normal is made with support from NZ On AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →29. Is there real hope for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?
Apr 300:48:51Tap to summarizeIsabella* is just 22, but she’d been living with severe contamination OCD for eight years. It had taken over her life - touching people, objects, even parts of her own home, felt dangerous. Every interaction came with a cost: hours of cleaning, sanitising and rituals. In this episode we follow Isabella’s story. From a life ruled by OCD to her experience with a revolutionary therapy: the Bergen 4 day Treatment (B4DT). Over 100 thousand New Zealanders are estimated to suffer from OCD and access to treatment is difficult. Thanks to the charity Open Closed Doors the B4DT had it’s first New Zealand trial in January of this year. And the results were phenomenal. Guests: Isabella* Dr Bjarne Hansen Dr Marthinus Bekker Emma Chapman Mihi Gillies To find out more, or to support the charity go to Open Closed Doors. Resources: Open Closed Doors. Fixate - FB group In this episode: Isabella’s story: what OCD feels like from the inside The hidden cost of OCD: intrusive thoughts, compulsions, and the exhausting mental load Why OCD is so often misunderstood, and why logic alone doesn’t work The impact on families, relationships, and daily life The gold-standard treatment: Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), and its limitations The first New Zealand trial of the Bergen 4-day Treatment (B4DT) - an intensive four-day therapy Insights from co-founder Bjarne Hansen on anxiety, intention, and “cracking the code” Willingness: the key predictor of recovery A strengths-based reframe of OCD: these traits are not weaknesses. “Don’t feed the cat”. Learning to respond differently to intrusive thoughts What recovery looks like in real life. Honest reflections on early recovery, the highs, the doubts, and what comes next Practical insights for parents and families: supporting without reinforcing OCD No Such Thing as Normal is made with support from NZ On Air See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →28. Why ADHD still feels so hard - even when you understand it
Mar 2700:31:46Tap to summarizeADHD is being talked about more than ever. But for many, life still feels harder than it should. Even with a diagnosis there can be a lingering sense of “Why is life still so difficult?” In this episode, Sonia speaks with ADHD coach Alex Campbell, to find out what we’re missing. Alex says ADHD brains are motivated by interest, not importance. But the world expects the opposite, and that’s the where issues arise. People often develop hidden systems to try to meet life’s demands - hypervigilance, hyper-independence and a harsh inner-critic. But these come at a cost. Their are high rates of burnout and exhaustion for those with ADHD. This conversation explores a different way forward: understanding how your brain works, and learning how to work with it, rather than constantly pushing against it. In this episode: How interest acts as the fuel for focus and executive function Why simple tasks can feel disproportionately hard to start How the brain creates stimulation when things feel boring Negative interest: why anxiety and urgency often become the default fuel The hidden coping systems (hypervigilance, masking, hyper-independence) The role of the inner critic The long-term cost: exhaustion, stress and burnout Internal vs external hyperactivity. ADHD and emotional intensity Spiky strengths: brilliant in some areas, challenged in others Practical ways to begin working with your ADHD brain, rather than against it The value of connection Identifying strengths, and using them to get activated Guest: Alex Campbell ADHD CoachAlex’s book ADHD… Now What? Is available here. Resources: VIA Character StrengthsADHD NZ No Such Thing as Normal is made with the support of NZ On AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →27. Strengths-based education (Part 2): What happens when we build around strengths?
Mar 2000:43:54Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Sonia Gray speaks with 12-year-old Benjamin, whose extraordinary creativity sits alongside the challenges of dyslexia. His mother, Gretchen, reflects on the hidden effort behind his learning, and what changed when his strengths were recognised and understood. Dyslexia advocate Dean Bragonier returns, making the case that strengths-based education is not just better for individuals, but for society. He argues that when we fail to recognise neurodivergent strengths, we fail to realise that potential, along with the innovation and creativity that come with it. The Hyphen Project in Auckland offers a different model of learning for gifted and neurodivergent teenagers who have struggled in mainstream education. For 17-year-old Travis, who has ADHD, that shift has been life-changing. A talented digital artist, Travis couldn’t find his place in the traditional school system. He arrived at Hyphen in a mental health crisis — and found an environment that worked with his brain, not against it. In this episode: Strengths-based education in practice at The Hyphen Project ADHD, dyslexia and “spiky” learning profiles Why many neurodivergent students disengage from school The link between anxiety, mental health and learning The role of belonging in re-engaging young people How motivation changes when learning is built around strengths Real-world pathways for creative and neurodivergent thinkers The “opportunity cost” of overlooked potential This is a continuation of the previous episode, Strengths-based education: Unlocking the gifts, which explores how identifying strengths early can transform a child’s experience of learning. Guests: Dean Bragonier Noticeability Benjamin Gretchen Holly Gooch The Hyphen Project Travis Resources: Dyslexia Foundation NZ No Such Thing as Normal is made with the support of NZ On AirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →26. Strengths-based education (Part 1): Unlocking the gifts
Mar 1300:39:31Tap to summarizeFor many dyslexic children, school is where self-doubt begins. Literacy and numeracy sit at the centre of how ability is measured, so it doesn’t take long for kids who struggle in these areas to absorb the message that something is wrong with them. And this extends beyond dyslexia. Many neurodivergent learners - including those with ADHD and autism - have strengths that sit outside the narrow skills schools traditionally measure. Ensuring all kids learn to read and write is important, and many will need targeted support. But are we missing something vital in this process? Should the same emphasis be placed on the unique gifts of those with learning difficulties? Dean Bragonier is an international dyslexia advocate and founder of non-profit organisation NoticeAbility. He held a series of workshops in New Zealand, designed to help dyslexic students recognise their cognitive strengths. In this episode, Sonia speaks to Dean, and from some of the children who took part in the workshops here. This conversation focuses on dyslexia, but the idea reaches far beyond it. When young people discover their strengths, the story they tell about themselves can begin to change. In this episode you’ll hear: Why many dyslexic students internalise the belief that they’re “not smart”. How the changing nature of the workplace may favour neurodivergent strengths. Why a negative self-perception created in school can have lifelong effects. Advice for parents of dyslexic learners. Why learning ‘the basics’ is hard for non-linear learners. This is Part 1 of a two-part focus on Strengths-based education. Guests: Dean Bragonier NoticeAbility Ella Deanna Emily Resources: Dyslexia Foundation NZ TED X: The True Gifts of a Dyslexic Mind | Dean Bragonier See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcribe →