Is Diet Coke killing you… or is it fine?

Summary

NO SUCH THING – Episode Summary
"Is Diet Coke killing you… or is it fine?"
Published June 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Manny, Noah, and Devin dive into the ever-contentious debate over diet sodas—asking: Is Diet Coke (or its many competitors) actually bad for you, or mostly harmless? They mix pop culture, scientific studies, personal anecdotes, and expert opinions to separate fact from fiction around artificial sweeteners and soda habits. The show blends banter, interviews, and even an on-air experiment—the notorious "Fat Joe Challenge"—to get to the bottom of a group chat classic: will Diet Coke kill you, or is it totally fine?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pop Culture & Personal Diet Soda Journeys

[02:33-08:55]

• Hosts open up: None of the hosts claim to be diet soda evangelists, though Noah’s spouse is a committed Diet Coke drinker.
• The episode tees up with the viral Fat Joe quote, who claims to drink “30 to 40” Diet Pepsis a day.
• Donald Trump, Taylor Swift, Elon Musk, and Olivia Rodrigo—all noted Diet Coke fiends.
• Devin introduces Gen Z’s concept of the “fridge cigarette”—a quick Diet Coke as a work break or treat.
• Quote:
  “I think Diet Coke may be one of the last unifiers of this country. You know, our president Donald Trump, famously a Diet Cokehead.” — Devin [03:27]
• Fat Joe’s 40-can-a-day habit is weighed as absurd and possibly exaggerated, but sets up the later challenge.

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2. The Case for Diet Soda (with journalist Michael Easter)

[09:02-14:32]

• Why Diet Soda? Michael Easter, wellness writer and Diet Coke aficionado, explains his switch from sugar sodas to diet for calorie reduction.
  • He lost weight simply by ditching regular Coke for diet versions.
  • Argues diet soda provides “a short term hit of pleasure without a long term penalty.”
• Caffeine content: “A 12-ounce coffee has 150mg of caffeine, Diet Coke just 50—it’s a nice little boost, not a jolt.” — Michael Easter [12:34]
• Willing to quit? Easter says he’d need “long term human data” to prove any major harms; current evidence is mostly weak or rat-focused.
  • “Show me the long-term human data. … Maybe I'll take it down to one or two a day.” — Michael Easter [14:18]

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3. Diet Coke vs. Coke Zero: Pop Culture, Gender & Branding

[18:18-27:06]

• Adam Chandler (WSJ food columnist): Breaks down the “civil war” between Diet Coke and Coke Zero fans.
  • History: Diet Coke (1980s) succeeded Tab, was aggressively marketed at career women, models, and “power” imagery—tied to diet culture and thinness.
  • Coke Zero (2000s): Launched to court men put off by the “diet” label; branding uses more masculine associations (e.g., FIFA tie-ins).
  • Quote:
    “The aspiration in other places outside the US is not to be thin and powerful, but to have a good life.” — Adam Chandler [21:40]
  • Europe: Diet Coke is hard to find; “Coke Lite” and Coke Zero have more traction due to both regulations and branding.
  • Coke Zero is now the growth engine, with double-digit sales increases, riding the wave of the “zero sugar” movement and functional sodas.
  • Gendered marketing discussed—Diet Coke targeted toward women, Coke Zero rebranded for broader (especially male) appeal.
  • Quote:
    “It’s all right. It says dude on it. … Coke doesn’t say diet. It’s not feminine to drink this non sugar Coke.” — Manny & Devin [25:04-25:07]

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4. Artificial Sweeteners and the Science

[28:37-48:21] – with Giles Yeo, Cambridge Professor

• Debunking cancer claims: Most carcinogenic findings are in rats at “crazy” doses. “Many things become cancerous if you put it in at 10,000 times the dose you’re supposed to have.” — Giles Yeo [30:34]
• How they work: Artificial sweeteners activate sweet receptors, but aren’t metabolized as sugar—tricking the brain to expect energy that doesn’t arrive.
  • Potential downside: Repeatedly “breaking” this evolutionary link could eventually mess up metabolism, but so far, human data is lacking.
  • “Is switching to sweeteners better than mainlining sugar? Yes. Is it better than drinking water? No.” — Giles Yeo [34:17]

Orange Juice vs. Coke:

• Surprising claim:
  “I have said and been on the record as saying that orange juice is worse than Coke.” — Giles Yeo [38:38]
  • Rationale: Orange juice has as much sugar as Coke but is “marketed as healthy”—so people drink much more of it, not realizing the sugar content.
  • Our bodies evolved for chewing, not drinking calories (except for milk as infants).
• Sugar’s real issue:
  It’s not that sugar is poison, but Americans are simply consuming too much, especially in liquid form.
  • “The dose makes the poison.”

Recommended Intake:

• No universal “safe number” of diet sodas; depends on individual metabolism, health, and genetics.
  • “Do it moderately, because it really depends who you are. … I don’t think we have an answer that’s universal.” — Giles Yeo [45:03]
• Fat Joe’s 30-40 a day is “undoubtedly too much.” [46:16]

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5. The Fat Joe Challenge

[52:52-57:25]

• Noah attempts to drink 30-40 Diet Pepsis in 24 hours
  • Starts with one every 20 minutes at 6am, but realizes quickly it’s “a lot harder than expected.”
  • Maxes out at 15 cans: “It’s about noon and I have to say this is a lot harder than I expected. … My new goal is to get to 20.”
  • Main complaints: Not caffeine jitters, but excessive urination and fullness—“Just like drinking more liquid than I ever would.” [55:11]
  • Concludes it’d be impossible with full-sugar soda, but felt mostly fine (if very full) with diet soda.
  • No lingering effects the next day.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “If there’s even one ounce of truth to the myth that drinking soda stunts your growth, I would have been in the NBA for sure.” — Manny [07:13]
• “How many things in life can give you just this short term hit of pleasure without a long term penalty on your life? Not many.” — Michael Easter [11:15]
• “Fat Joe has to donate his body to science. We got to see what the hell is going on in there.” — Manny [57:46]

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Key Timestamps

• Intro & main question: [02:33]
• Fat Joe/celebrity shoutouts: [02:54–05:00]
• Personal soda histories: [06:00–09:01]
• Interview: Michael Easter: [09:02–14:32]
• Diet Coke vs. Coke Zero history/interview: [18:18–27:06]
• Science explainer (Dr. Giles Yeo): [28:37–48:21]
• Orange juice vs. soda segment: [36:45–43:09]
• Noah’s Fat Joe Challenge: [53:02–57:25]
• Takeaways & closing reflections: [57:28–58:55]

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Consensus & Takeaways

• No strong human evidence that diet sodas cause cancer at typical consumption levels.
• Artificial sweeteners may disrupt evolved metabolic signaling, but this is mostly theoretical; for now, they’re “better than sugar, worse than water.”
• No magic “safe” number—moderation is key, and impacts likely vary based on health, genetics, and habits.
• Sugar in drinks (even juice) is generally worse than sugar in whole foods due to satiety and fiber.
• Coke Zero’s rise reflects both dietary trend shifts and marketing genius; gendered branding has shaped soda preferences.
• The Fat Joe Challenge is extreme and inadvisable, but Noah survived 15 cans with only mild discomfort.

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Closing Thoughts

NO SUCH THING’s approach is informal, funny, and deeply curious; it blends science, pop culture, and personal experience to demystify a hotly debated kitchen-table topic. Final verdict: No, Diet Coke probably isn’t killing you (unless you’re pulling a Fat Joe)—but it’s not nature’s healthiest treat, either. Moderation is key, and branding, perception, and personal preference play as big a role as the science.

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To hear Manny’s blind taste test (Coke Zero vs. Diet Coke vs. regular Coke), check out their Instagram: @nosuchthing.show.

Transcript

[Manny]

I'm Manny.

[Noah]

I'm Noah.

[Devin]

And this is Devin. And this is no Such Thing. The show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research on today's episode. Will Diet Coke actually kill you? And Noah attempts the Fat Joe Pepsi challenge.

[Fat Joe]

I drink too many diet Pepsi. 30, 40 a day.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

There's no. No such thing. No such thing. No such thing. No such thing. No such thing.

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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Giles Yeo]

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[Devin]

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[Giles Yeo]

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[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Goodbye.

[Devin]

All right, fellas, so today we're going to be talking about diet sodas. So we got Diet Coke, Coke Zero, Diet Pepsi. We don't discriminate here. We're going to get to the bottom of just how bad they really are for you. There've been Some headlines over the last couple of years about artificial sweeteners using these sodas causing cancer.

[Michael Easter]

The World Health Organization now classifies the low calorie swee aspartame as a possible carcinogen.

[Giles Yeo]

A provocative study now links diet soda with a higher risk of stroke and dementia. In fact, researchers found that men and women who drank as little as one diet soda a day were at almost three times the risk.

[Devin]

This can of Diet Coke is slowly killing you.

[Manny]

It contains a sweetener called aspartame.

[Devin]

But also, I'm gonna spend some time talking about, you know, why people love these sodas.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Noah]

It's on the bright side, a lot

[Devin]

of diet heads in our lives. I think Diet Coke may be one of the last unifiers of this country. You know, our president Donald Trump, famously a Diet Cokehead.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

He drinks up to 12 a day.

[Manny]

But didn't he have that tweet once where he's like, I've never seen a skinny, skinny person drinking Diet Coke.

[Devin]

I know that's he's, you know, he contains multitudes. My man has layers. A lot of contradictions. He has a Diet Coke button and he. Oval Office.

[L (Emergency Physician / Diet Soda Drinker)]

Oh, yeah.

[Giles Yeo]

This is a very ominous looking. Because of the red button.

[Noah]

What does that get you?

[Giles Yeo]

Get you a Coke or get you a Pepsi? One or the other. I'd have to be.

[Devin]

And more recently, he reportedly, this is according to Dr. Oz, says that diet soda kills cancer.

[Noah]

Kills it.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Let me play this clip.

[Manny]

Well, my president said it, then heard this.

[Devin]

This is Dr. Oz on Donald Trump Jr's podcasts. Your dad argues that diet soda is

[Giles Yeo]

good for him because it kills grass. It's poured on grass. So therefore it must kill cancer cells inside the body. What?

[Manny]

Well, I can't even begin to fathom the line of thinking there.

[Noah]

So it kills one thing, so it kills another, but not you. I see where it's coming from.

[Devin]

So, you know, some people saying it causes cancer, some people saying that it kills cancer.

[Noah]

We'll find out.

[Devin]

Other fans of Diet Coke include Taylor Swift, Ben Affleck, Elon Musk, Kate Moss, and Olivia Rodrigo.

[Noah]

Wow.

[Devin]

You know, so it's a wide range of people. And then last year, there's this big viral moment of Gen Z calling Diet Cokes a fruit cigarette. Did you guys see this?

[Manny]

No.

[Giles Yeo]

No.

[Devin]

So they were comparing it, you know, younger people of food, cigarette. Younger people at a certain point were smoking less. I don't know if that's still true. A lot more people are smoking again.

[Michael Easter]

But.

[Devin]

So, you know, back in the day when Our parents were in the office, people to go out and have. Yeah, your cigarette break days. You know, Gen Z was like, oh, midday when I want a little break from work, I'll go and get a little Diet Coke to have, like a little treat, a little moment. Something that's bad for me, but it's a little tasty, Little, like a little treat.

[Giles Yeo]

Yeah.

[Manny]

So fridge cigarette, meaning they're going to the fridge.

[Devin]

Having a little moment, having a little break.

[Manny]

That's a real treat.

[Devin]

Something that's a little bad for you but makes you feel good.

[Manny]

Okay, so makes sense.

[Devin]

And they call it fruit cigarettes.

[Manny]

Good for them. Enjoy.

[Devin]

Yeah, Multi generational Donald Trump down to

[Manny]

Gen Z. Yeah, that's true.

[Adam Chandler]

That's.

[Devin]

You know, there's a wide range of people, but like I said, we don't discriminate. We like Diet Pepsi here, too. Famously, my girl Addison Rae had a big hit two years ago called Diet Pepsi. And more recently, Fat Joe. On his podcast, Joe and Jada announced that he has 30 to 40 diet Pepsis A day.

[Noah]

Unbelievable.

[Fat Joe]

I drink too many Diet Pepsis a lot. You know what I'm saying? Very, very much. I got a problem. 30, 40 a day.

[Devin]

Let me tell you something.

[Fat Joe]

If I went to the doctor, God forbid, and they told me, yo, you have a problem due to Diet Pepsi, I gotta take the shit on the chin. I gotta just be like, I knew I was just doing too much with them Diet Pepsi, right?

[Devin]

So, fellas, let me ask you this. I want to hear about your relationship to diet sodas. Are you Diet Pepsi heads? Diet Coke heads?

[Manny]

I'm no diet at all.

[Devin]

No diet at all.

[Manny]

It's gross.

[Devin]

So what do you do?

[Manny]

You just do hard, hard, regular, original recipe, Coca Cola.

[Devin]

You know, I'm the same way. I grew up the same way. I didn't grow up with diet sodas in my house.

[Noah]

Did you have sodas in the house?

[Devin]

Yes.

[Manny]

Oh, yeah. If there's even one ounce of truth to the myth that. So drinking soda stunts your growth, I would have been in the NBA for sure. I now, I was probably doing two and a half per day back when I was a kid. Not every hour like Fat Joe.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Devin]

For a full day.

[Manny]

But yeah, for a full day. When I was, you know, I was actually those things up.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Manny]

And in a really bad way.

[Adam Chandler]

Yeah, we never had soda in the

[Noah]

house, really, except for, like, holidays, special occasions.

[Hershey's Ad Narrator]

Oh, right.

[Devin]

It's like a special treat.

[Manny]

Yeah, but that's why I don't understand diet sodas. Unless, of course, you're using it as like a weight loss loss thing is that the, the diet ones aren't a treat, they just taste.

[Noah]

Well, I'll say this as someone. So my wife is a big Diet Coke drinker.

[Michael Easter]

Yeah.

[Manny]

I'm sure it's acquired taste and it's,

[Noah]

I think it's a little bit. Because it's less intense. The sugariness that it, I think that's part of the appeal.

[Manny]

Oh, yeah.

[Noah]

And it's, it's a different flavor kind of almost entirely than.

[Manny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Noah]

Than full fat Coke. So I, I see. Now I'm just more used to that too, to be fair. But I, I see both, I think. Like, for me, nothing's ever going to beat proper red Coke.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Noah]

But, but if you're drinking them regularly, it's nice to have something a little dialed down.

[Devin]

So. So nowadays if you're drinking a Diet Coke or a Coke Zero is. It's just because that's what's in the house.

[Noah]

Yeah. I mean, it's probably a little bit like, yeah, I don't really want to have all that sugar. Like, it is, it's intense to have that if you're having it every day.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

But, yeah, for me, it's more just like I'll, I, I'll drink whatever's in available.

[Adam Chandler]

Yeah.

[Devin]

If there's.

[Noah]

But like weekly we're buying.

[Giles Yeo]

Yeah.

[Noah]

But weekly we're buying Diet Coke or Coke Zero.

[Devin]

So. But you, so you like the taste of it now.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Yeah.

[Devin]

All right, so let's call up someone who loves this stuff. We're going to call it Michael Easter. He's a New York Times bestselling author and journalist. He also has a huge wellness newsletter called 2%, which is also the name of his new podcast. Michael, thank you for joining us. We just got done talking about our Diet Coke journeys. I would love to hear about your own Diet Coke journey. How did you fall in love with Diet Coke?

[Michael Easter]

How did I fall in love with Diet Coke? It's been a long, strange, wonderful trip. I started drinking diet soda when I was probably in high school.

[Devin]

Huh.

[Michael Easter]

So in high school, I mean, I was, I was active, played some sports. Not well. And then I, you know, I look down and I'm like, hey, you're looking a little soft. What's going on here? And I started kind of looking at like, well, what are you eating? What are you doing? I go, oh, well, I wonder if it's like the 80 ounces of soda with sugar that you're drinking every day. Like, I start doing the math on that, I'm like, that's like almost a thousand calories of pure sugar. So I go, well, here's the thing though is I love soda. It's going to be a hard one to give up. I love it, so what could I do? Oh, it turns out there's this thing my mom has been drinking for as long as I can remember, diet soda. So I start drinking that. Literally just that one change. I lost weight from that.

[Giles Yeo]

Wow.

[Michael Easter]

So the point, I think big picture, when we look at diet soda, the key is that it gives you something delicious in liquid form with no real penalty. Like you look at all the data on diet soda and people would be like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's no real data that shows that it is bad for you. I'm not saying it's good for you. We gotta think about it in terms of something that is neutral yet delicious and amazing for those of us who love it. Like how many things in life can give you just this short term hit of pleasure without a long term penalty on your life? Not many.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Michael Easter]

Cigarette, that'll give you the short term pleasure, but you could get cancer in 20 years. Drinking alcohol, same deal. You're gonna have long term health problems. Even something like dessert, delicious. But if you overdo dessert now, you're gonna find yourself, you know, maybe with some health issues. So it's like this amazing technology that is just makes my life better every day.

[Devin]

Well, first of all, how many are you having a day? How many diet drinks are you having in a day?

[Michael Easter]

I'm probably four, five.

[Noah]

Okay, wow.

[Devin]

So you're having like, that's like as much tease as I have in it. Yeah.

[Manny]

That's also crazy.

[Devin]

Yeah, that's. Yeah.

[Manny]

You try to make it sound like it was normal.

[Devin]

No, it's normal.

[Manny]

Are these, Michael, are these like paired with your meals or just kind of whenever you get the feeling, the craving.

[Michael Easter]

Whenever I get the feeling. Here's something that I love about diet soda. So afternoon hits, you know, it's 2:00pm you're like, I'm kind of tired, but I still have work to do. Yeah, I'm feeling a little low now. I could drink coffee, but here's the problem with coffee is it's a lot of caffeine.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Michael Easter]

And so if you compare like 12 ounces of your standard cup of coffee with a 12 ounce cannon, diet soda, we're talking coffee has probably about 150 milligrams of caffeine, whereas the Diet Coke will have about 50.

[Noah]

Oh, wow.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Yeah.

[Michael Easter]

So it's enough that you're kind of like, all right, I get this little boost. I feel a little bit elevated. But at the same time, it's not so much that it's, you know, you're on GM and I'm going, why can't I sleep? So, yeah, a lot in the afternoon, I would say, is the TLDR that.

[Devin]

Is there anything that we would be able to tell you about diet soda that would make you rethink your relationship to it? If there was some, like, information that you're like, oh, no, I didn't know it did that.

[Michael Easter]

I think so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm open.

[Michael Easter]

I'm definitely open. It would have to be strong.

[Devin]

Okay.

[Michael Easter]

I want to see some human data, you know, with a lot of these things. I used to work at Men's Health magazine and we also owned Runner's World.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Michael Easter]

And there was kind of like this idea going around that running marathons long distances hurt heart health and was leading people to get heart attacks. And I remember one of the guys on staff, he was like this old school runner. He just goes, okay, show me the bodies of all these runners who are dying. And you're like, oh, well, it turns out there really isn't that many of them, like, at a grand scale.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Michael Easter]

Running, obviously is very good for your health.

[Manny]

Right.

[Michael Easter]

So I kind of think about that with diet. So it's like, yeah, people can probably quibble. They'll talk about like, oh, well, it might disrupt your gut microbiome.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Michael Easter]

Well, this one study in rats found blah, blah, blah, and it's like, okay, show me the long term human data. And it's. It's really hard to find. But if you find that, tell me, because, I don't know, maybe I'll. Maybe I'll take it down to one or two a day.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Devin]

Not eliminating your fluid, but yeah, maybe we'll have it. That was Michael Easter. Check out his wellness newsletter, which is now a podcast called 2%. When we get back, we're going to hear about the history of Diet Coke. We're going to find out just how bad diet sodas are for your health. And Noah will attempt the Fat Joe Challenge.

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[Giles Yeo]

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[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

The number you have dialed is not available at present. Please leave your message after the beep.

[Sarah (Diet Soda Drinker Caller)]

Hi, this is Sarah. I'm calling to tell you that I am a big diet soda drinker. In Diet Pepsi in particular. I really anticipate the drink such that my eyes water. So yeah, I really like it.

[Devin]

Have one a day. Drug of choice is Diet Coke in a can. The hierarchy being can, bottle, then liter if necessary. McDonald's Diet Coke is God tier.

[L (Emergency Physician / Diet Soda Drinker)]

Started drinking diet soda because I got sober from alcohol about four years ago. And in the beginning, first year or so, I was drinking a lot of regular soda just to, I don't know, turn up with meals or whatever. And then it just started being too many calories. So I switched to diet. I have what doctors call a stupid pancreas, but I think I should get new doctors because most would call it type 1 diabetes. And so I drink diet soda because it's an indulgence that I can have without sending my blood sugars to the moon.

[Giles Yeo]

I'm a heavy diet soda drinker and

[Devin]

the main reason for that is a health condition.

[Michael Easter]

I have type 1 diabetes.

[L (Emergency Physician / Diet Soda Drinker)]

I am an emergency physician and am a diet soda drinker myself. I usually use it kind of at the end of a shift to kind of get me through

[Devin]

okay, we're back.

[Manny]

I'm Manny.

[Noah]

I'm Noah.

[Devin]

Devin. So as I was reporting for this episode, an article was published by the Wall Street Journal with the title, the Ice Cold Civil War between Diet Coke and Coke Zero Drinkers. So I reached out to the guy who wrote it.

[Adam Chandler]

My name is Adam Chandler. I'm a food columnist at the Wall Street Journal.

[Devin]

All right, Adam, first question for you. Are you. Are you a Diet Coke drinker?

[Adam Chandler]

I probably shouldn't say, but, you know, I'll break my. My. My neutrality here and say I am an ex Diet Coke drinker who's now a Coke Zero drinker. Yeah.

[Giles Yeo]

Wow.

[Devin]

All right, so can you walk me through a little bit? You touched on this a little bit in your article of, like, the pop culture history of Diet Coke and how it is this, like, intergenerational thing?

[Adam Chandler]

Yeah, well, Diet Coke kind of pops up in the early 80s, and it secretly, or not so secretly carries on the banner of Tab

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Tap

[Giles Yeo]

Tap, which

[Adam Chandler]

was a lifestyle drink that was meant to be low calorie and didn't taste at all like Coca Cola. It wasn't branded that way. And Diet Coke was meant to carry on that flavor profile of Tab in ways that Tab drinkers say never happen. So that's one aspect of it that's interesting. But the way that it was marketed was buzzy fashion associated with models, associated with pop star. Associated with boardroom swashbuckling. All of these major themes of, you know, power and aspiration in a way that Coca Cola was never about power and aspiration. Coca Cola is about hanging out with your friends. Diet Coke comes along as this, unapologetically a diet soda. And it's interesting on a number of levels. And I. I'll ramble forever if you don't stop me. But thinking about what the word diet means to that generation versus what diet means to this generation, it's freighted. You know, a lot of other countries don't even call their Diet Coke Diet Coke. They call it Coca Light or something else, because diet culture is seen as negative or. Or damaging in a way that American diet culture is only now kind of resisting, which is why Zero sugar is so much more popular as a trend than diet sodas are right now.

[Devin]

So something I didn't know is that you can't, like, outside of the U.S. it's kind of hard to get Diet Coke, especially in Europe, because, yeah, I

[Noah]

feel like it's Coke Zero there.

[Devin]

So I asked Adam, like, why. Why is that the case?

[Adam Chandler]

Some of it appears to be nutritional standards in other countries where it's not outright banned, but it's frowned upon because of what it contains.

[Devin]

So Coke actually formulates its formula overseas to meet EU standards and sells it as Coke Lite.

[Adam Chandler]

Even if it's renamed, the way that it's marketed doesn't resonate in the same way. I think the aspiration in other places outside of the US is not to be thin and powerful, but to have a good life. And that can mean just drinking a Coca Cola or something else. But I also think that Coke Zero has come along and again, kind of in a way that's ahead of its time here, taken the markets overseas by storm because of its resemblance to Coca Cola.

[Devin]

So we got, like you said, Diet Coke comes out as like this aspirational thing. Can you talk about the introduction of Coke Zero

[Adam Chandler]

in the early aughts? Coca Cola is looking to expand their portfolio and they are thinking of different ways that they can market their sodas. And Coke Zero comes out at a time where people are still thinking differently about nutrition and sugar. And also we're reconsidering what the word diet means perhaps for the first time. And it comes out in sort of that heyday of how can we present more choice to consumers? And in this way, they're trying to lock down men who for many reasons, some complicated and silly, do not want to drink a diet, so do not want to be seen drinking a diet soda.

[Giles Yeo]

Real taste, zero sugar, as it should be.

[Adam Chandler]

And this gives them permission in some ways to drink a diet soda without it being called diet soda. So there is that aspect to it and then there is the branding of it, which is that it's supposed to be more like a proper regular Coca Cola.

[Noah]

It's over, done. We nailed it. Real Coke taste with zero calories as

[Adam Chandler]

opposed to Diet Coke, which doesn't really resemble Coca Cola at all. So it has this kind of fascinating branding exercise around it that is meant to bring the guys along and also bring Coke drinkers who are perhaps rebelling against full sugar sodas right now. If you go to a bodega, if you go to a store, you may see lined up next to each other, Coke Zero cans are FIFA themed and Diet Coke cans are Doublers Prada 2 themed. And if you want to look at like the way that these two diet sodas, which are scientifically and calorically very similar, are marketed, that's a really nice snapshot of what you'll see.

[Manny]

I never considered whether my aversion to Diet Coke had to do with sexism. Toxic, masculine.

[Noah]

When he gave the example of the Devil Wears Prada versus FIFA, that's what I thought of more than it representing ambition. Yeah, it's more like this for women. I mean like one for girls, marketing wise that, you know, and I think that, I mean, in my life.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

The people I know who talk about

[Adam Chandler]

Diet Coke are women.

[Manny]

Yeah, like, yeah, it's true.

[Noah]

You know, and certainly that's changing. But. And then, yeah, when he hit that with then Coke Zero being kind of a bridge between the two that is more neutrally gendered.

[L (Emergency Physician / Diet Soda Drinker)]

Yeah.

[Devin]

It's like, makes sense. I was telling him, it's like, dude, wipes. Yeah, yeah. It's like, hey guys, you could wipe your butts now. Okay.

[Manny]

It's all right.

[Devin]

It says dude on it.

[Manny]

It has. Yeah, exactly.

[Devin]

It's like, it's this. Coke doesn't say diet. It's not feminine to drink this non sugar Coke. Can you talk a little bit more about, you know, Coke Zero's ascendance now of like becoming a new like golden child?

[Adam Chandler]

It is the golden child. Coke Zero has become the golden child. In the last, you know, 10 years, you've seen this zero sugar category which includes, you know, all kinds of major brands, but also smaller ones too, kind of are coming out of obscurity and becoming super popular. Because the idea of zero sugar again is something that isn't quite as freighted as a diet soda. And also, you know, a lot of these sodas have different benefits that people are interested in. We're looking at sodas with probiotics now and a lot of fiber and a lot of different things that people are looking for optimizing their diets and being functional in their beverages.

[Chase Secure Banking Advertiser]

And we get to drink soda before bedtime.

[Giles Yeo]

Yeah, it's got less sugar and good stuff like fiber.

[American Family Insurance Announcer]

Now

[Adam Chandler]

Lollipop and Coke Zero is very much a part of that partially because of the way that it's branded and also just because of, I think, associations people have with Diet Coke that are negative. In the last year or two, we've seen, you know, 10 or 12% growth from Coke Zero. And that's a really impressive figure because a lot of things are contracting right now. People are spending less and Diet Coke has been flat, relatively flat, no pun intended. And so it, it's not dethroned Diet Coke yet, but it's coming for it. And it's growing really quickly in a way that is giving Coke Zero drinkers a real opportunity to say, why is it when I go to a restaurant, the only option is Diet Coke first for a diet beverage, it should be both, or it should be Coke Zero as well. It should be just Coke Zero because, you know, it tastes better, it goes better with food.

[Noah]

Whatever.

[American Family Insurance Legal Disclaimer]

Whatever.

[Adam Chandler]

The reason is, 10, 15 years ago, Chipotle kind of changed everything because you had the opportunity to create a burrito or bowl based on exactly what you wanted, as opposed to this preset orders that existed. It's been fascinating to see how other brands have kind of jumped on that, whether it's like fast casual brands or even fast food brands that are trying to replicate the ability, especially using apps to customize your orders. And I think beverages are part of that. People want to be able to kind of choose their own adventure, and that's part of the fun of being a consumer. But it's also crazy for these companies that have to kind of handle the operations of it. People are more discerning in ways that can feel maybe unnecessary. And I think that that is something that is kind of shaping our behaviors in a lot of ways outside of how we consume food and beverage, too.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Yeah.

[Manny]

What is the. The actual beef between the Diet Cokes and the. I mean, Coke Zero? I could see it being that.

[Noah]

Well, it's. I think it's the taste, but then it's like, yeah, if you're, if you. I think the restaurant thing is probably restaurant. And like a movie theater would be a great example of if you go and you want a diet. If you want a Diet Coke and they only have Coke Zero or you want to cook Zero and they don't have it.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Because I was like, well, who really care? Like, you're allowed to buy whatever you want in this country still.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Yeah.

[Manny]

Yeah,

[Devin]

all. So next up, I wanted to find out just how bad diet soda is for us actually, in terms of health. So I called up Giles Yeo.

[Giles Yeo]

I'm a professor at the University of Cambridge, where I study the genetics of body weight and how our brain controls our feeding behavior.

[Devin]

Are you a diet soda drinker, Diet Coke, or Pepsi drinker?

[Giles Yeo]

I am a diet soda drinker, and not because I'm on a particular diet, but I don't Diet Coke in particular. Other drinks are available. I. I prefer the taste just to tell you rather than if I drink a full fat Coke, a full sugar Coke. It's too sweet and syrupy for me. So, yeah, I. When I have a soda, it tends to be a diet soda and it tends to be Diet Coke.

[Devin]

From what I've learned so far, it seems like the biggest difference between a. A diet Soda. And a regular soda is you're substituting out, you know, sugar for a sugar substitute. I've seen a lot of stories about these sugar substitutes and whether or not they're good or bad for you. So I just want to start, like at a basic level, like, what do we know about, like, sugar substitutes and the effect they have on us?

[Giles Yeo]

Not as much as you might think. Can I just myth bust something out of the box? Okay.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Giles Yeo]

And the first is that people, the big fear is that they says, oh, in particular the synthetic sweetness. Okay. Aspartame and things like that. People says, oh my God, they're cancerous. Now look.

[Devin]

Yeah, these, in a lot of that,

[Giles Yeo]

These cancerous studies typically are done in rats, okay. And they give the rat the equivalent of like a hundred liters, whatever that is, in gallons, you know, gallons and gallons and gallons of like diet soda concentrated. So. But I think many things become cancerous if you put it in at like 10,000 times the dose you're supposed to have.

[Michael Easter]

Yeah.

[Giles Yeo]

So I, I don't think they're cancerous in there. So that's just myth busters. So what they do is they have different versions of it. Now, it depends what kind of, what kind of sweetener we're talking about.

[L (Emergency Physician / Diet Soda Drinker)]

Right.

[Giles Yeo]

But typically these all somehow activate the sweet tasting receptors on our tongue. Okay. And our tongue, clearly we have a number of different types of receptors on our tongue. Bitter, salt, sour, sweet and umami. Okay. So, so umami is the, it tastes the glutamate, what tastes msg. And so, but they will signal to the sweet receptors and so therefore signal whatever sweetness. The big difference is when this sweetness then gets into our body, they are sugars that our body can deal with.

[Devin]

Okay.

[Giles Yeo]

In other words, use as energy or store as energy. And there are stuff that are not sugars at all, but sort of turn on the sweetness flavor, but once they actually get, get into us, are either metabolized or comes out the other side. So that pretty much is what an artificial sweetener is. It's just there to sort of tickle the sweet taste in our tongue without giving us any energy. That's good and that's bad. Ultimately, that's the case.

[Devin]

Yeah. So what is bad about that? You know, the good makes sense, right? It's like, okay, you're getting the benefits of sugar without the effects in your body. What's the bad?

[Giles Yeo]

So the bad is this. Why do we have these taste receptors on our tongue? And you might think, oh, it's just to make food taste better. No, that's not. The evolutionary reason is not that the taste on our tongue allows us to model what it is we're eating. Now, remember, we are only two steps away from a caveman brain, okay? But not even that far away, okay? So, in fact, I think we're probably still the caveman brain, the way we behave today.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

So.

[Giles Yeo]

But what it does is you use it to model the world, okay? So very often, bitter is associated with poison, okay? So you take a goo. Sour specific things, but the sweetness in particular is down to the amount of energy in a food. And so they're there to allow us to model the world so that as we are munching it and eating it, because it's a direct connection to the brain there, your brain is beginning to model and learn. Red berry, poison, blueberry, you know, thingy, greenberry, lion, whatever, whatever we're trying to do in order to learn. You're modeling the world. And so what that sweetness tastes is, first of all, does it taste nice? Therefore, is it high in energy? And then your body gets ready to sort of receive the energy. Because once you've learned it, okay, like, once you've learned, okay, if I ate three bananas or X amount of honey, I know this is the amount of energy I get. Now, we don't think about it like that, but your brain thinks about.

[Devin]

Your brain is doing that work in the background.

[Giles Yeo]

Exactly. Now, the bad thing happens is, well, what happens when you break that connection? Okay, When. Now you're tasting something that is sweet but gives you no energy. So over a period of time. Well, what does that do with our metabolism? What. What does that do? So metabolism is sort of a broad way of saying how quickly we use our fuels, okay, that are actually in our body. That pretty much is our metabolism. And, well, what does that do to our metabolism, right, which is typically quite finely tuned in order to make sure we're matching what we're eating with what we're storing and burning, that has to kind of match. Otherwise, you either run out of food or you run out of energy, right? And that's but bad. So I think that's where the bad probably might emerge over long term. And we don't know enough about it yet. But over the long term, the question is, if you have a lot of these artificial sweeteners, does it begin to increase your risk of metabolic disease? And so I think that is probably where the bad is. I. I'm not trying to scaremonger because I think when people say, are sweeteners bad for you? The Question is often like, is vaping bad for you? I said, well, compared to what is. Is vaping compared to. Is better than smoking? Yes. Is it better than not vaping? No. I get the feeling the same thing is going to be true for these artificial sweeteners. If you're diabetic. Okay. Or you have too much sugar in your life and you're trying to sort of take step. Steps away, is switching over to some form of artificial sweeteners better for you than mainlining sugar? Yes. Is it better than drinking water? No. Right. And so I think that's probably. It's a nuanced. I'm giving you a nuanced answer because I still think it's nuanced. There's people who scaremonger. I think they go too far. There are people who say that this is the best thing since sliced bre. I think they are being. I don't think they're looking at the science.

[Manny]

Okay, let me see if I can try and synthesize.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Manny]

Accurately. So basically, sweetness is an evolutionary indicator of energy. But if you're consuming synthetic sweetness, you are disconnecting what your brain is supposed to do when it receives energy.

[Devin]

Yeah. Your body's preparing for it, but then it doesn't happen. And if you do that repeatedly over time, maybe you start to break those connections. So that messes up your metabolism in some way.

[Manny]

Wow.

[Devin]

But this is, you know, he's saying there's. We don't know.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

This could be a thing down the line that we start to see, but there's nothing.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Currently showing us that this is horrible for you.

[Manny]

Yeah. And it makes sense, too, what he was talking about with the nuance there that, like, of course you can look at these diet sodas as a way to step away from, you know, mainlining sugar, as he said, but it doesn't mean it's healthy.

[Devin]

No, it's not water. Yeah, yeah, I've heard this argument. And maybe because I, you know, surround myself with some full sugar drinkers where they'll say, actually, regular coke is actually better for you because sugar's not that bad for you.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Or like, how bad is sugar actually? Regular sugar, actually. Right. And he has this crazy thing where he says that actually orange juice is worse than Coca Cola.

[Manny]

No way. I gotta hear this.

[Devin]

Than raw Coca Cola.

[Manny]

Play the. Play the tape.

[Devin]

I see a lot of stuff that's like, sugar is the absolute worst thing you could put in your body. It's terrible. No amount of it is good. I see some stuff that's like, hey, a little bit of sugar is fine. You know, it's in fruits. You know, it can't be that bad for you. What is your point of view on just sugar in general and how much, you know, we should be intaking day to day.

[Giles Yeo]

Okay, once again, a nuanced answer. I think we're eating too much sugar. Undoubtedly true. So that, that is. But that doesn't mean that there is no safe dose of sugar. I think it's the point. I mean, clearly one of the arguments is we don't need dietary sugar because we eat complex carbs, starches, bread, pasta that breaks down into, into sugar to glucose in particular, we're talking about. And that's accurate. That's true. But that being said, sugar does bring some level of joy to our lives. Yeah, it does. Let's ice cream, you know, you know, all kinds of things. Why would you not life. So I think, as with everything, I think Paris, that, that philosopher Paracelsus, I think he said that the dose makes the poison, and I think that probably is, is going to be true. Now it's interesting what you say about, what you say about fruit.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Giles Yeo]

And, and it's true, but there is a distinct difference. Okay. The sugar and fruit is exactly as the same sugar in, in Coke, in a soda. All right?

[Devin]

So, yeah, I've seen, I've seen, I've heard you talk about this. And it's. This is crazy. You said that you compare. You said orange juice is actually worse than Coca Cola.

[Giles Yeo]

I say the.

[Devin]

I'm paraphrasing.

[Giles Yeo]

No, no, you're not. You're not. You're not paraphrasing at all. I have said and been on the record as saying that orange juice is worse than Coke. Not because, because people consider orange juice a health drink.

[Devin]

Yeah, right.

[Giles Yeo]

Whereas it contains as much sugar as Coca Cola. Now, orange juice does have more minerals and vitamins and all these things. Those are true.

[Devin]

All right?

[Giles Yeo]

But ultimately we're thinking about the sugar. It has as much sugar as a soda. No one considers a soda a health drink. Nobody does. And so you treat soda with the respect it is given because I am drinking a soda. Whereas a lot of people use orange juice as a health drink and therefore may drink gallons of it compared to something else. That is why I think it's worse than a soda, because I think people don't think soda is healthy. People think that orange juice is actively healthy for you.

[Devin]

So you're, you're, you're saying basically that people, because they consume, will consume much, so Much more orange juice. Thinking it's, oh, this is just healthy. You know, it's basically like a better version of water. There's, you know, there's vitamins and other benefits to it. That's what makes it less healthy for you versus having, you know, if I were to drink the same amount of coke, is the same amount as orange juice, the orange juice would be better for me. If you're gonna pick between the two.

[Giles Yeo]

Yes, yes. Before people start writing into you and saying, what is this? Who are you interviewing? What an idiot. Right? So, yeah, that is my point, is the perception of orange juice that I think is dangerous is a strong word that troubles me compared to something else. But I guess the point I'm being is that we were never designed. Now, the main issue, I think, with sugar doesn't. My big issue is not with the eating of sugar as much as it is the drinking of sugar. Because we, through evolution, have never actually been designed to drink our sugar, in fact, to drink our food in general. Okay? Now, except for one type of food which is ubiquitous, and that is milk. Now, milk is obviously, okay, we are mammals. So the moment we're born, so it comes out, milk obviously has protein, has fat, but it has lactose, and that's the sugar. Okay, because lactose is cut into half and it becomes glucose and galactose. So that's the sugar we were born. Now, what happens when a baby mammal is born? They need to grow quickly to avoid becoming tiger food. Correct. And so the first, they latch onto that biggest source of energy available, the boob, and then. Okay. And so therefore, their drive to eat that sugary thing is there. That's the only time we drink our food. All right? Whereas typically, we have now evolved to eat the rest of our food, it's only relatively recently that now we. We're actually consuming quite high quantities of our food in liquid form, typically as typically as a soda. Now, the difference between eating something is a number of. Let's say an orange.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Let's.

[Giles Yeo]

Let's go back to oj. Let's go back to orange juice. Here. Here's an orange, and here's a glass of oj. Now, the thing about eating is the first thing you do, you're chewing. Now, the moment you begin chewing, this is part of the model. Your body says, ah, food's coming down. Okay, everybody, let's get ready to receive the food. And so they're getting ready to receive the food. Second, because orange has fiber in it, all right? Your body then has to work harder in Order to extract the sugars from the fiber while you get exactly the same dose of sugar from orange versus just squeezing the orange into a glass. The delivery of the sugar into your bloodstream is far. It looks different, the shape is different. Orange juice goes to patong because it just gets absorbed, whereas you eat an orange, it goes whoop. Okay, so difference number two. Okay. Difference number three. Because foods that travel further down the gut, they tend to make you feel fuller because of gut hormones. And so there's fiber.

[Noah]

We don't.

[Giles Yeo]

Fiber comes out the other side. And so what happens with eating an orange versus drinking orange juice is that the orange actually even with exactly the same calories because we don't absorb, digest, fiber actually makes you feel fuller for longer because of the fiber. And then finally the fiber is good for the bugs in our gut, the microbiome. So there are many reasons you want to eat something like a fruit which had, which has sugar in it versus drinking it.

[Manny]

Wow, that's kind of mind blowing.

[Devin]

It's a lot happening there. So let's start with the sugar aspect of it. Right. And him saying that no orange juice is, is worse for you than Coke.

[Noah]

I, I agree. The perception. I agree what he's. With what he's saying. That said, no one, I don't. I've never seen anyone drinking orange juice in a similar way to the way people drink Coke. Like, even people who like orange juice basically have one usually small glass in the morning, maybe two if you're having a nice luxurious breakfast. But like, I've never, I've never heard of anyone be like, have. I'm gonna have three, the equivalent of three cans of orange juice in a day. Like, that's just not.

[Devin]

But juices, juices are.

[Noah]

I'm talking about orange juice. I'm talking orange juice here.

[Adam Chandler]

Yeah.

[Devin]

But I think that would carry over

[Giles Yeo]

to juice and juice in general.

[Devin]

Right.

[Giles Yeo]

People.

[Noah]

I'm responding to what he said.

[Devin]

That's fair.

[Noah]

He said orange juice specifically. Okay, okay, fair. We're not talking juice.

[Devin]

But. But people have this perception that juice, anytime they're drinking juice, that's how they cook. So I could have 10 juices in a day.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Because that's healthy. Versus, oh, if I had 10 full fledged Cokes in a day.

[Giles Yeo]

Yeah.

[Devin]

So I want to get from him, as we said, Noah is about to do the fat Joe Pepsi challenge.

[Manny]

Yes.

[Devin]

But I want to know before we got there what is a normal amount that someone should be having. And then also get some advice for Noah as he embarks on this Journey. Exactly. So back to diet sodas, right? Is there a sort of like, magic number in your head of like, hey, if you're, you know, if I can't get you to just drink water, if you're gonna drink a diet soda, here's like sort of the limit you should have per day, per week. How should we think about that?

[Giles Yeo]

That's a good, that's, that's an excellent question. I don't have an answer for two reasons. I don't know. That's probably the main answer. No, but actually the reality is I don't know if anybody knows. I get, I, I, I'm a geneticist now, right? Why, why are people the same? Why are people different? I get the feeling that that number, that tins or, or glass, whatever, cans, whatever, however you drink, you consume your soda, I get the feeling that number is going to differ depending on who you are, are, depending on how large you are, depending on your metabolism and everything like that. So I don't think there is an answer to that as a general piece of advice, aside from the fact that do it in moderate, moderately, because I do think that it really depends on who you are. And some people will absorb it well and metabolize it and actually probably see next to no harm from it, whereas other people might not respond well to it at all based on what their other dietary requirements are as well. So I think that would be my answer. I don't think we have an answer that's universal.

[Devin]

I don't know if you know the rapper Fat Joe, but one of the reasons we're doing this is he talked about on his podcast he has 30 to 40 diet Pepsis a day.

[Giles Yeo]

Okay. That I think might go into the. Too high. It's just. Now I'm going to stick my neck out here. I think that's too much that you,

[Devin]

you say safely say, that's, that's too much.

[Fat Joe]

It's.

[Devin]

I, that is, it blew my mind. I think he's lying maybe a little bit or, you know, exaggerating. I drink a lot of water. You know, I drink a lot of tea. And even then I'm like, I couldn't have 30 or 40.

[Giles Yeo]

You know, how much is cups of

[Devin]

water or tea in a day?

[Giles Yeo]

Let me, let me, let me do the math. Just wait a minute. Now I'm curious. So if it's an average of 330 mils, right. Times 30. Let's go with the lower number.

[Devin]

Yeah, let's go with the lower.

[Giles Yeo]

Oh, my God, that's 9.9 liters.

[Devin]

That's so much liquid. I'm like, how are you not just using the bathroom all day, you know, just constantly.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Yeah.

[Devin]

So this is maybe a horrible idea, but one of our co hosts, Noah, is going to attempt to do this in 24 hours. He's going to attempt to drink 30 to 40.

[Giles Yeo]

So short term. Not. Not. Yes, go.

[American Family Insurance Legal Disclaimer]

Just one.

[Giles Yeo]

Like a month or something, right?

[Devin]

No, no, just one day. Any advice for him on how he can get through this successfully or what he should do afterwards to bring him back to equilibrium?

[Giles Yeo]

Okay, I think what you want to do is if you want to go back to equilibria equilibrium, you want to clear your system of it, then the. The easiest way, I mean, you'll automatically, automatically be weing the water out. The problem is what you do with those artificial sweeteners. Do you absorb them at all? Some. Some of you absorb, some you don't absorb quite as well. I would go, literally go for a workout at the end because that increases your metabolism and therefore your liver then works. First of all, your blood moves faster through your liver. Your liver is your detox organ is able to then. So that's what I would do. So once you've done the experiment, I would. Then you're hydrated. Right. So you may. You may as well. So you may go for. Go for a workout so that you increase your metabolism and encourage your liver to actually get rid of. Get rid of the stuff you don't want to be in there. That's what I would do.

[Devin]

That was Giles Yeo. Check out his book why Calories Don't Count. Wherever you buy books. After the break, it's finally time Noah attempts the Fat Joe challenge.

[American Family Insurance Announcer]

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[American Family Insurance Legal Disclaimer]

Products, pricing and availability vary based on where you purchase insurance and by state. Some exclusions apply. American Family Mutual Insurance Co. SI and its operating companies. 6000American Parkway, Madison, Wisconsin.

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[Malcolm Glebel]

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[Michael Easter (continued)]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans. In the digital age.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which is a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology. And digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com ferrari.

[Sarah (Diet Soda Drinker Caller)]

I am 21 years old. I live in Utah and so this feels like my forte. I've been drinking Diet Coke since I was probably about 14 or 15 years old. The reason I drink it is because I grew up in a family where we were told that you shouldn't drink your calories, so it was either water or a diet soda. I really like fun flavors and I like to switch it up. My current has been the Strawberry Splash diet Ginger ale and I've also dabbled in Mountain Dew, Zero Sugar, Baja Blast, Cabo Crush. Part of my reason for drinking is pulse in the sense that I just don't have a lot of calories that I can eat in a day. I'm quite short. If I had to choose, it would definitely be a Diet Coke. Although recently I did do that viral trend of trying different diet colas to see if I could tell the difference. And I visibly winced when I drank the Diet Coke and said it tasted bad. So maybe I've just finished myself because of branding and I actually like the Diet Pepsi more. But I refuse to make the switch.

[L (Emergency Physician / Diet Soda Drinker)]

My soda of choice is an ice cold Coke Zero. I drink diet soda mostly for, I guess, the health reasons in terms of no sugar. I'm adhd. So I love caffeine and need it pretty much all the time. The irony is that when I called this number the first time I had written it down wrong and by one digit and it sent me to some sort of Coca Cola helpline.

[Devin]

All right, we are back again.

[Manny]

I'm Manny.

[Noah]

Noah.

[Devin]

Devin. So Noah, during our break.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Manny]

Just be like it's been a day.

[Devin]

Yeah. You, you did this challenge.

[Noah]

I answered the call.

[Devin]

You, you volunteered to try to drink 30 to 40 Diet Pepsis. Diet Pepsi is Fat Joe's drink of choice.

[Noah]

Yep.

[Devin]

In a 24 hour span.

[Malcolm Glebel]

That's right.

[Devin]

Tell us how it went.

[Noah]

So a little bit about strategy. My plan, I always wake up early anyway, usually around 6. My plan was basically as soon as I wake up I'm not going to have coffee or anything else. I'm going to grab my first can right at six. I was trying to game it out to, to hit the 40 number and I was like, okay, if I start at 6 and basically have one every 20 minutes, oh my God. Through like you know, 6pm yeah. You know, knowing I'll probably drop a few or whatever.

[Devin]

You're good.

[Noah]

I'll be on track.

[Noah (Fat Joe Challenge Updates)]

6:13am first sit. It's 9:40. I'm about to start. Can 4. This one I took out of the fridge a little early because the straight out the fridge ones are a little too cold to really chug. So hopefully this one's a little better. Pepsi 5 it is 10:37. It's about noon and I have to say this is a lot harder than I expected. Especially I got a decently early start. I mean I'm only averaging basically one an hour.

[Noah]

I'm hoping in the afternoon I can

[Noah (Fat Joe Challenge Updates)]

pick up the pace but it's,

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

it's

[Noah (Fat Joe Challenge Updates)]

not looking good to hit even the low end of Joe's 30 to 40 range.

[Manny]

You drank seven Diet Pepsis by noon.

[Pedigree Dog Food Announcer]

Yeah.

[Manny]

In insane.

[Noah]

And this is when I started then having to pee a lot and it was.

[Devin]

Oh, by noon. That's when it started.

[Noah]

Yeah, it was a while and then suddenly it was like, oh, I'm, I'm having a pee. And I didn't feel bad. Like, like. Yeah. How did you feel the caffeine wasn't. It's not a lot of caffeine. It's less caffeine or about that amount is probably about the same amount of caffeine I would typically have through just having coffee almost.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Manny]

Oh, okay.

[Noah]

So I wasn't like jittery that way. It was Just like drinking more liquid than I ever would.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Yeah.

[Noah]

So then afternoon, I switched. I started pouring, pouring them into glasses instead, which let some of the fizziness out, so that made them easier to drink, too.

[Noah (Fat Joe Challenge Updates)]

My new goal is to. To get to 20, which is a significant stretch away.

[Noah]

It is almost 4 o', clock, and

[Noah (Fat Joe Challenge Updates)]

I'm finally starting to make some serious break progress. I'm about to crack open my 13th can. I'm gaining some momentum right now. My goal is just to hit 20 by the end of the day. I'm looking for a movie soon, so I don't really know what I'm gonna do. I don't really want to pee that many times during the back rooms, but, yeah, we'll see. I. I want to get to 20 tonight, so I need. I need eight more.

[Noah]

My grand total is one of final guesses.

[Devin]

I don't think you did 30. I think that's two. I. I would say if I had the guess.

[Manny]

18, I'll put you at 14.

[Noah]

15. Wow. Yeah.

[Manny]

You weren't trying to rush through it to catch up to the Fat Joe number. You were. But you were largely always drinking a Diet Pepsi, I think.

[Noah]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't drink anything else at all.

[Manny]

Like, you always.

[Noah]

I always have. Yeah. Constantly.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Noah (Fat Joe Challenge Updates)]

Yeah.

[Noah]

So. And it was always in my head, like, oh, let me take a sip. And I would take bigger sips than I normally would, certainly, because I'm also. Then you're drinking and you're not thirsty at all because.

[Devin]

Yeah. You're just forcing yourself to.

[Noah]

Yeah. And I was saying, like, there's no way I could do it with a full fat Pepsi or.

[Giles Yeo]

Oh, yeah.

[Noah]

Like, if they. It actually had the sugar, then I would feel insane.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[American Family Insurance Legal Disclaimer]

But like.

[Noah]

Yeah, my stomach and stuff was fine. I just had.

[Devin]

That was it. You didn't. Yeah, that's.

[Manny]

That's really interesting.

[MGLIS Medication Announcer]

I really.

[Noah]

I mean, I don't. I wouldn't say I felt great, but.

[Manny]

You feel bloated or anything.

[Noah]

Just because I was full. But not like a.

[Manny]

Because it's.

[Noah]

It wasn't. If I ate a lot of other food, like, say I ate a lot of bread or something.

[Manny]

You've been fuller before.

[Noah]

Definitely.

[Devin]

So today you don't feel any. I woke up after effect.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Devin]

I mean, from it. You didn't feel like, I got to go for a run and get this out of my system?

[Noah]

I did. Like, I wished if I hadn't gone to the movie or something, I probably would have tried to go at least for like a walk or something. Like, that would feel nice, but I don't feel like I have lingering aspartame.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Noah]

In me. All right. You know, I don't feel it.

[Manny]

This is fascinating.

[Devin]

All right, so. So takeaways. Do artificial sweeteners cause cancer?

[Manny]

Probably.

[Devin]

Maybe if you inject it into your veins at, you know, 10,000 times the amount you're supposed to have, we'll see long term effects. What it has on your. On your metabolism down the line, we don't really have.

[Manny]

Yeah, Fat Joe has to donate his body to something.

[Devin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Manny]

We got to see what the hell

[Noah]

is going on in there.

[Devin]

Patient zero. There's no magic number of diet drinks you should have in a day. Yeah, like you said, a lot depends on just, like, how Noah could probably have the Fat Joe diet and be fine. Yeah, he didn't really feel the effects of it. If you're gonna have sugar, you should probably eat it versus drinking it.

[Manny]

Yeah, that's a. That's a big one.

[Devin]

You know, orange. Orange juice is worse than Coke. So a lot of takeaways here.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

And Manny might try some Coke Zero, so.

[Giles Yeo]

Yeah.

[Noah]

So do you think you're ever gonna opt for a Coke Zero?

[Manny]

I think. You know, I would never pick a Coke Zero because of the taste, obviously, but I could see myself, you know, swapping them out here and there.

[Devin]

Yeah, Maybe not even everyone.

[Giles Yeo]

Yeah, maybe every other one.

[Noah]

That's how I kind of treat it, too.

[Manny]

If you put it on ice, you know, you're barely. It's barely different.

[Noah]

It's more like if I'm at home. So I want a little treat.

[Manny]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Noah]

A light treat. I'm not. It's not like, okay, this is my feast.

[Devin]

It's just like, you want a little fridge.

[Noah]

It's a casual thing. It's a fridge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll give it to him.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

No, no, no, no. No such thing.

[Devin]

We actually had Manny do a blind taste test with Coke Zero, Diet Coke and regular Coke. You can check that out on our Instagram. No such thing. That show will link to it in the show notes. No such thing as a production of Kaleidoscope Content. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne and man guest Huda Kadur. The show was created by Manny Fadal, Noah Friedman, and me, Devin Joseph. Theme and credit song by Manny. Our guests this week were Michael Easter, Adam Chandler, and Giles Yeoh, and also you, the listeners. Thanks for sharing your diet soda stories. If you have feedback for us or question, you can email [e-mail] or you can leave us a voicemail by calling the number in our show notes. Go to no Such Thing show to subscribe to our newsletter. Alright y', all, we'll see you soon.

[Pedigree Dog Food Announcer]

Down.

[No Such Thing (Podcast Tagline/Chorus)]

Such thing

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Pedigree Dog Food Announcer]

we learned how to love dogs from the dogs that loved us and waited for us to get home from school. They were the dogs that raised us. We returned the love with Pedigree Dog Food. It was good then. It's better now. For 40 years, Pedigree has been bringing out the goodness in dogs. Every bowl serves up 100% of the nutrition your dog needs, supporting six health essentials. That's the pedigree goodness promise. Good then, better now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial 4 month or longer dose of about 4 in 10 people taking MGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[MGLIS Medication Announcer]

MGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids don't use if you're allergic to Ebglis, allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglis. Before starting ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

Ask your doctor about ebgliss and visit eglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.