Ma’s Justice – Gunsmoke (05-07-61)

Summary

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Old Time Radio Westerns: “Ma’s Justice – Gunsmoke” (05-07-61)

Host: Andrew Rhynes
Date: November 15, 2025
Podcast: Old Time Radio Westerns

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Episode Overview

This episode features a classic Gunsmoke radio drama, “Ma’s Justice,” which originally aired in 1961. The story centers on a violent conflict between frontier families, the aftermath of a deadly shooting, and a mother’s moral reckoning with both justice and the law. The digitally restored episode immerses listeners in the harsh realities and ethical choices of the Old West, ultimately exploring themes of feuds, retribution, and trust in law.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Conflict (04:00 – 07:02)

• Jakey and Reed Sayles return home with wild horses, boasting to their Ma about outmaneuvering the Sloat family on the open range.
• Tensions escalate as the Sloats arrive to claim the horses, accusing the Sayles boys of theft.
• Violence erupts: In the confrontation, Reed is shot by old man Sloat, and Jass Sloat is killed by Ma Sayles defending her family.
• Ma Sayles issues a warning: “You killed my boy, you get off this land before I kill you too. Now get!” (07:02, Ma Sayles)

2. Summoning the Law (08:12 – 13:29)

• Ma instructs Jakey to ride to Dodge City for the doctor and Marshal Matt Dillon, signaling a shift from handling matters privately to seeking lawful intervention.
• Jakey’s journey reveals the family’s old ways: “We never needed the law, Ma. We can handle them Sloats. Pa said there never was…” (08:23, Jakey)
• Upon reaching town, Jakey is directed to Miss Kitty, who helps him find Marshal Dillon and Doc Adams.
• Marshal Dillon learns of the incident and heads out:
  “You know who shot him? Yeah, the old man Sloat. He’d done it.” (12:51, Jakey)

3. Law Confronts the Old Ways (13:29 – 17:42)

• Matt Dillon and Chester approach the Sloats’ homestead, risking their lives to disarm and arrest old man Sloat.
• Justice and pragmatism: The Marshal’s intervention ends the immediate feud, promising legal consequences rather than continued violence.

4. Aftermath and Morality (20:10 – 25:17)

• Inside the Sayles home, the family is worn and desperate as Reed’s life hangs in the balance.
• Tenderness in hardship: Doc Adams tends to Reed; Ma Sayles and Jakey anxiously assist.
• Relief: “His fever’s breaking. That’s good, isn’t it? His heart’s strong. Looks to me like the worst is over…” (22:41, Doc Adams)
• Ma Sayles’ reckoning: She insists that Marshal Dillon arrest her for killing Jass Sloat, wanting her sons to see law take precedence over personal vengeance.
  • “We've been living without the law for a long time, Marshal. We've been doing our own fighting and saying what was right. My husband didn't see no need for the law, and he was shot... Feudin’ without the law. I don't want that no more, Marshal, for me or for my boys. I want them to lean to the law instead of to their guns.” (24:08-24:32, Ma Sayles)

5. Resolution (24:39 – 25:14)

• Marshal Dillon reassures Ma that the killing was in self-defense but resolves to “arrest” her to satisfy her need for legal legitimacy.
• Doc Adams’ wisdom: “Go ahead, Matt, arrest her. She’s teaching a hard lesson and it may take hold.” (24:53, Doc Adams)
• Ma’s quiet gratitude: “Thank you, Marshal.” (25:14, Ma Sayles)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On learning restraint:
  “I want the judge to say that [I’m free].” (24:06, Ma Sayles)
• On the futility of feuds:
  “He was shot. Feudin’ without the law. I don’t want that no more, Marshal, for me or for my boys.” (24:18, Ma Sayles)
• Doc Adams observes:
  “She’s teaching a hard lesson and it may take hold.” (24:53, Doc Adams)
• Reflection from Jakey:
  “No, ma’am. I think maybe I should thank…” (25:17, Jakey)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Wild horse conflict and shooting: 04:00 – 07:02
• Jakey seeks the law at Dodge: 11:13 – 13:29
• Confrontation at the Sloat homestead: 13:29 – 17:42
• Doc Adams tends to Reed: 22:04 – 22:51
• Ma Sayles asks to be arrested: 23:13 – 25:14

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Tone and Style

The episode is delivered in the classic, straight-shooting style of Gunsmoke, with rugged dialogue, ethical dilemmas, and a sense of weary honor. The restored audio heightens the atmosphere—coarse wind, tense standoffs, and the quiet, heavy moments of family tragedy and resilience. Themes of justice, personal responsibility, and the transition from frontier lawlessness to trust in formal justice loom large throughout the drama.

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Summary

“Ma’s Justice” is a powerful portrait of frontier morality, illustrating how hard-won experience—and loss—can teach a family to seek justice over revenge. The episode highlights the turning point when trust is placed in the law rather than personal arms, typified by Ma Sayles’ insistence on standing before a judge for her actions. The story closes with hope that this example might “take hold,” offering a rare victory for empathy, order, and lasting peace in the Old West.

Transcript

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[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

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[Andrew Rines / OTRWesterns Host]

Welcome to the Old Time Radio Westerns. I'm your host Andrew Rines and I'm excited to bring you another episode. This is one of over 80 episodes released monthly for your enjoyment. You can find more Western shows at our website by going to otrwesterns.com now let's get into this episode.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

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[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

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[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

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[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

All right, Jinky, head that one in there.

[Andrew Rines / OTRWesterns Host]

Look out.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

The other one's.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Good.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

That's good.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

All right.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

All right.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Get out of there, Jinky. I'll get the gate there. We got him, Reed. We got him right in front of them sloped noses. Leave your horse here, Jinkie. We'll tell Ma. Yeah. We just rode them wild horses right away from them, didn't we, Reese? They're probably still looking for him. We got two, Ma. Two wild horses in the corral.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I seen you driving men. Yeah.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

They'll bring good money. That's right, Mark. They're sound.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Any trouble?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

No, we just rolled away from them.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Rode away from who?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Old man Sloat and his second boy. That Jasp.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

You do you take him away from the Sloat?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

No, we just outrode him.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Now, Reed, you tell me straight. That's right, Ma. They was out on open range. We got them rounded up first.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Yeah, and we got away first, too.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I don't want no trouble.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Oh, we can handle it, Ma. We can always handle him slow.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I don't want nothing to handle now, Ma.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

There ain't no cause to worry.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

That's what your PA said. And he lays dead.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Paul was alone that day, Ma. Hey, somebody's coming. It's them. Yep. Jass and his old man.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Well, leave them.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Come. They'll take the course we brought in. Come on, Jakey.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Jakey.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

In the corral. Cass, get a pure paw. Set your horses. We're taking the coats. One, Jess, you better hold on. We roped them. They're our coats. Ain't they reading? They are, right enough. There ain't never no call for you Sloats riding onto our place. And there sure ain't no call for you trying to take them Colts. I'm ordering you off our land right now. He's talking big like his paw did. Go on, Cass. Go gather up them quotes. Sure, Fob. Get him. Not likely. You won't, Jakey. It wasn't no call to shoot him, mister. That was my brother you shot. You hold it, boy. Right where you are. You want the same? You murdering her off. He drawed too late. Just like his pa. Well, go on, Jas, get the coat suit. You just gonna leave em alive? Folk, if they need burying, their ma can do it. Will you get them Colts? All right, folks.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Get off my land.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Fox, he's got a gun. Never mind her. Just go on. You killed him. You killed my Boy, you get off.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

This land before I kill you too. Now get Jakey.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

You sure drove off, Ma.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Oh, no credit to that. You're right, Jakie. Can you stand? Sure.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

So, Ma, just got my head creased, I guess.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Well, let's look to your brother.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Oh.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

He'S living, Jake, but in bad hurt. We gotta get him in. You fit to carry?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Sure, Ma.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I'll take his head. No, I can lift him. I'll take his head.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

All right.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Soon as we. As we get him down, you ride right off to dodge.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Sure, Ma. Yeah, I'll bring the doc right back.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

The dock and the marshal.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

The marshall. We never needed the law, Mom. We can handle them slurks. Pa said there never was.

[Andrew Rines / OTRWesterns Host]

Pa.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Your PA ain't saying no more. You bring the marshal Straight.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

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[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Tomorrow, as some of you know, is Monday. And Monday, as all too many of you know, can mean the beginning of another dreary workaday week. It can mean that. But it doesn't have to. Not if you're tuned to your favorite CBS radio network station to hear the great morning lineup of entertainment. This is what you'll hear. Arthur Godfrey Time presided over by the irrepressible Redhead. The with big name guest stars like Arlene Francis and Kay Ballard and musical treats from singers Kong Ling and Richard Hayes. The jazz harmonica player Jean Thielman and Nick Hyman's orchestra. The Garry Moore Radio show starring one Garrison Morphett and his sidekick Durward Kirby. In lots of lively talk, art, link, letters, house party with fun for all the guests, including you. And highlighting art's inimitable children's interviews. And finally, the Bing Crosby Rosemary Clooney show. Presenting two great singers bringing song and friendly banter. All here, all available Monday through Friday at this dial address. And you can see for yourself, Miss Kitty. We got rid of three cases last week.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Well, all right, Sam. I'll order it the next time the drummer comes through.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Whoa. Sorry, ma'.

[Andrew Rines / OTRWesterns Host]

Am.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

I'm sure sorry, ma'. Am. I didn't mean to run into.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

It wouldn't hurt you to look. Never mind. It's all right.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Well, I didn't.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Well, I hope you didn't. I'd hate to think you nearly knocked me down on purpose.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Oh, no, no, ma'. Am. Just that I was looking for somebody.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Who are you looking for?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

For the lady that runs this place, ma'. Am.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

You found her.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

What you mean it's you?

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Something the matter with that?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Well, no, no, ma'. Am. I just figured she'd be bigger and older like. Like anybody that.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

That runs us alone.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Well, yes, ma'. Am.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I'll take that as a compliment. What can I do for you?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

They told me up the street you always know where the marshal is.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I'll take that as a compliment, too. You look in his office?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Yes, ma'. Am. Yes. He ain't there. You know where I can find him? Or the doctor?

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

You sound like you're in real trouble.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

My brother's shot bad. Ma said come to dodge and fetch him, but I ain't found neither one of them.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Well, sometimes they come in here about this time and sometimes they don't. Well, you're halfway in luck anyway. Matt. Matt, the marshal just walked in.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

That big fella?

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Yeah, a big fella.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Hello, kitty. Something up?

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

This boy. What's your name?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Jakey Sayles.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

He's in trouble, Matt. Oh, this is Marshall Dylan.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Jakey.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

How do you.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Marshall. It's trouble, Jakey. My brother Reed has been shot. Ma said to get you and the dock. I couldn't find him. Where is your brother? Out to the home place. That's west of town, isn't it? Yes, sir. Out past Turkey Creek. Uh huh. You know who shot him? Yeah, the old man, Sloot. He'd done it. Why? Well, they come after our horses and we tried to stop them. They shot your brother? Did they get the horses? No. No, sir. Now, after Ma shot Jass old man Sloat, he rode right off. Your mother shot Jass? Yeah, Marshall, she did. Never seen her use a rifle before, neither. All right, I'll get right out there.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Well, the floats won't let her go. At that, will they, Matt?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

No, Kitty, they won't. Do what you can to help the boy find Doc, will you?

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Yeah, sure.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Chester and I'll start on out. The boy can show Doc the wave. Never called in the law before. Yeah, sounds like it. So long, Kitty. We'll see you. I declare, Ms. Dylan, I ain't been this far west since I was calling on Ms. Ruthie face worker. Whatever happened to that romance, Justin? Well, I wouldn't exactly call it no romance, Mr. Jones. Though she did let me kiss her one time when we was both out in the barn. Oh, well, I'm glad you were both there. Well, of course we was both there. How else in the world could I have kissed her? She married Sam Bigwell, didn't she? Yes, she did. And I never could rightly understand it, neither. Old Sam's a nice enough fella, but not as nice as you are. That it? Well, for Ms. Jones, I don't think he's no nicer. I'll say that Ruthy Fay must have thought so. Well, what does a woman know about men? Yeah. Ain't that the slope place just yonder there? Yes, it is. I didn't expect to find him here. These two horses tied in front of the house. You're right. Come on, get over behind those trees. Seems like that shot came from back there. Yeah. Watch the house, too. That's right. I'm the U.S. marshal. I want to talk to you. Got nothing to say to the law. Well, I got something to say to you. It'll be easier if you put down your gun. I ain't aiming to make it easy. I see Mr. D over by the side of the barn. Yeah. I'm coming out, Sloat. I can shoot if I have to. I wouldn't try it, Marshall. There's two of us. We got the drop. You better ride off like you come. Put the gun down. You keep an eye out, Chester. I'm going to try to get closer behind that rock up there. You get a milk. You got a good shot from up there. Up there. The barn roof. Mr. Dillon. You got him. He fell clean off. All right, Sloat, you lost your rod. You better come out. I ain't coming out. Okay, Chir, work around to the other side and then you'll have a clean shot at him. All right, sir. Oh, no. Wait, wait. I give up. Don't kill me and throw your gun down here. All right, come on, Chester. You gonna hang me? Let the judge figure that. I got his gun, Mr. Jones. All right, Chester, tie him up and Watch him. I'm gonna go to sales. I'd had them Colts and been gone. If Milk didn't come late, he should have been a little later. Watch him good, Chester. I'll pick you up on the way back.

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[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

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[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Out the long johns because saving over.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

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[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

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[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

You the marshal?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Yes, ma'. Am. Mad Dylan.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Where's Jakey?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Well, he's waiting to bring the doctor out. They should be here before long.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I need more firewood. Round the side there. My boy Reed's shivering cold.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Sure, ma'. Am. I get it for you. Here you are, ma'. Am.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Thanks. The stove could use a stick or two.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Yes, ma'. Am. There you are.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Would you bring me the pan of water, Marshall?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Sure, ma'. Am.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

He's bad. Took Marshall.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Yeah, I see. He is.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I. I don't know what to do. But keep him warm and keep his head cool. I've been at it all day.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Doc Adams will fix him up.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

We gotta keep him going till he gets here.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

We'll sure try, ma'. Am. We sure try to.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Ma.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Ma, I brought the doc.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Oh, I'm sure relieved to see you, Doctor.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Sorry I couldn't get here sooner, ma'.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Am.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Hello, Doc. Oh, hello, Matt. Let's have a look here.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I missed him all I could.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Hold that light over here, won't you, Matt? Yeah, sure. Well, let's see. Bullet went in, came out. That's good.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Then you won't have to do no cutting.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

No, I won't have to do any cutting. Is he all right, Doc? I'm trying to find out. His fever's breaking.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

That's good, ain't it?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Yes, that's good. His heart's strong. Looks to me like the worst is over, Mr. Sale. I think he'll make it all right.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Oh, thank the Lord.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

I'll sit around, watch him for the next few hours, just to be sure.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Well, I'd be beholden, Doctor.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Can the boy put my horse up, J.C. right off, Ma. I'll do it right off. And rub it down good, too.

[Andrew Rines / OTRWesterns Host]

I.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

I'm glad for the good news, Ms. Sale. Guess I can be getting on back now.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I called you here because of the shooting, Marshal.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Oh, yeah, but that's all over, Ms. Sale. I told you the Sloats won't be bothering you anymore. Milton. Jass are dead, and I'm picking up old man Sloat on the way back to Dodge.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I didn't call you here because of the slopes.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

No? Well, why did you?

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Because of me.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Because of you?

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I want you to arrest me for the killing I did.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Ms. Sale. I was just a shooting. Your two boys have been gunned down. I'm not gonna hold you for that.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

I want the judge to say that.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Well, there's no need for the judge.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

There is for me, Marshall. I killed a man. I killed Jas Slope, and I want to answer for it.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Ms. Sale.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

We've been living without the law for a long time, Marshall. We've been doing our own fighting and saying what was right. My husband didn't see no need for.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

The law, and he was shot.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

He was shot. Feudin without the law. I don't want that no more, Marshall, for me or for my boys. I want them to lean to the law instead of to their guns.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Honestly, that's the right way to think. But this time there's no need for me to arrest you. The killing was justified.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Then the judge would let me go, wouldn't he?

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

Sure, he'd let you go.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

And the boys would see how the law works. All right, Marshall, you can arrest me now.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

But let's say. Oh, go ahead, Matt, arrest her. She's teaching a hard lesson and it may take hold. You think so, doc? I think so. All right then, Ms. Sail, you're gonna have to come with me. I'm arresting you.

[Narrator / Matt Dillon]

Thank you, Marshall.

[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

No, ma'. Am. I think maybe I should thank.

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[Jakey Sayles / Supporting Characters]

When you need someone to do a specific type of job, you hire someone specially trained to do that job. After all, this is an age of specialization. What you may not know is that right now there are several hundred thousand men and women who have received special training and are searching for employment. These people, many of whom are veterans, have physical handicaps, which actually often makes them better able to fill specific jobs. Sound strange? Maybe so, but here's the explanation. These men and women, recognizing their shortcomings, have sought and received special rehabilitation and training in specific areas of work. They are all highly skilled because they have been taught to make the best use of the physical and mental abilities they possess. Looking for help? Contact your state employment service and ask about physically handicapped workers. Employing the physically handicapped is good business. Gun Smoke, produced and directed in Hollywood by Norman McDonald, stars William Conrad as Matt Dillon, U.S. marshal. The story was specially written for Gunsmoke by Marion Clark with editorial supervision by John Meston. Featured in the cast were Virginia Christine, Richard Crenna, John Dana, Sam Edwards and Vic Parron. Harley Bear is Chester, Howard McNear is Doc, and Georgia Ellis is giddy. This is George Walsh inviting you to join us again next week when CBS Radio presents another story on gun smoke. The laughs are on Arthur Godfrey every Weekday on the CBS Radio Network.

[Andrew Rines / OTRWesterns Host]

This has been a presentation of OTRWesterns.com and we hope you enjoyed. Please take some time to like and rate this episode within your favorite podcast application. Follow us on Facebook by going to otrwesterns.com and subscribe to our YouTube channel by going to otrwesterns.Com YouTube become one of our ranch hands and unlock some exclusive content. We want to thank our most recent ranch hands, Steve and Ron W. Who joined us recently. You too can join by going to otrwesterns.com donate send us an email podcasttrwesterns.com and you can call and leave us a voicemail. 707-986-8739 this episode is copyrighted under the Attribution Non Commercial Share Like Copyright for more information go to otrwesterns.com copyright have a great day and thanks for listening.

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