Episode #4: Once We Were Warrior Women

Summary

Once We Were Spacemen

Episode #4: Once We Were Warrior Women

Hosts: Nathan Fillion & Alan Tudyk
Guest: Gina Torres
Release Date: November 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and heartfelt episode, Nathan Fillion and Alan Tudyk reunite with their "Firefly" co-star and friend Gina Torres. The conversation weaves through their shared experiences on sci-fi sets, the roots and resilience needed for a lasting acting career, and the bonds formed in the forge of Hollywood and genre TV. With warmth, humor, and a dose of nostalgia, the trio reflect on friendship, professional journeys, and the unexpected impact their work has had over the years—both on themselves and their fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

A Reunion of Kindred Spirits ([01:07]–[06:59])

• Opening Banter: Gina and Alan joke about their “makeout” scene, setting a cheeky, close-knit tone.
  • "You're an excellent kisser, Alan." — Gina Torres ([00:00])
• Introduction: Nathan and Alan describe how their favorite podcast guests are often those entwined in their own weird, wonderful creative journeys, highlighting the unique bond they share with Gina through "Firefly."
• Firefly Memories: The trio reminisce about mishaps in promotional trailers—especially the frequent mispronunciation of Alan’s last name.
  • "In both versions, he mispronounced Alan's last name. It was Alan Tudyk. And Alan Tudyke." — Nathan Fillion ([05:39])

Life Before and After Firefly ([06:59]–[16:48])

• Gina’s Genre Trajectory: She discusses her earlier work in "Cleopatra 2525," "Hercules," and "Xena," noting how "Firefly" pulled her from a niche corner of genre TV into broader sci-fi territory.
  • "So you went from niche to a little more broadly niche." — Nathan Fillion ([09:12])
• Meeting Stories & First Impressions:
  • Memory lane includes first meetings at costume fittings and the authenticity of on-set friendships. Gina recalls being relieved that Nathan was tall—so she wouldn’t have to deal with shorter leading men griping about height ([12:18]).
• Early Career Jitters: Nathan shares an early “near-firing” scare—thinking he was to be replaced, only to learn it was another cast member.
  • "I had no idea what I was doing..." — Nathan Fillion ([15:08])

Roots & Artistic Formation ([16:48]–[22:56])

• New York Beginnings: Gina tells about her formative years at LaGuardia High (“the Fame school”) and being inspired by her sister and early brush with live applause ([17:11]).
• Family Pride: Despite Gina’s fame, her family largely shrugs it off, though remains proud of her perseverance ([21:13]).
• The “House Guest” Analogy: Gina likens a guest-spot-heavy early career to being everyone’s favorite house guest, gradually staying longer until she’s truly “home” ([22:28]).

Endurance & Craft: The Actor’s Life ([22:56]–[26:53])

• Longevity Over Relevance: Gina emphasizes focusing on the craft and seizing any learning opportunity, not chasing trends.
  • "I don't worry about staying relevant. I worry about working." — Gina Torres ([23:24])
  • "You have to love the game…" — Gina Torres ([24:02])
• Not Being Precious: She underscores the importance of humility, adaptability, and finding value (and fun) even in “ridiculous” or challenging jobs.

Impact & Belated Success ([26:53]–[31:56])

• Big Break vs. Body of Work: Gina doesn't believe in the “one big break” myth; instead, it's about consistent, quality work in every role.
• Suits Resurgence: Gina discusses the phenomenon of "Suits" becoming a mega-hit post-COVID, and how its effects rippled into daily life—now even supermarket staff are starstruck ([28:41]).
• Cultural & Character Resonance:
  • Jessica Pearson ("Suits") is especially beloved for her powerful, well-dressed presence, resonating deeply with women and diverse audiences ([30:19]).

The “Makeout” Scene & Onscreen Chemistry ([31:56]–[36:38])

• Behind the Scenes: Alan and Gina fondly recall their rare romantic scenes in "Firefly," especially their marathon makeout from "Our Mrs. Reynolds."
  • "We made out for hours. So it was on the episode of our Mrs. Reynolds." — Gina Torres ([32:06])
  • "You’re an excellent kisser, Alan." — Gina Torres ([33:12])
• Comedy and Chemistry: Nathan jokes about Alan being “consumed” by Gina’s famous lips, while Gina shares a Jaws-inspired quip to a makeup artist:
  • "You're going to need a bigger brush." — Gina Torres ([35:12])
• Trust and Authenticity: They recount trusting each other enough for spontaneous intimacy, such as Alan’s unexpected (but in-character) butt slap ([35:46]–[36:22]).

The Legacy of Onscreen Relationships ([36:38]–[39:52])

• Serving the Story: Gina reflects on sometimes feeling underused on "Firefly," but always giving respect to the work and character.
  • "You have to have love and respect for what you do to make that happen.…" — Gina Torres ([37:00])
• Unexpected Audience Impact: The legacy of Zoe and Wash, a loving, respectful, and “unlikely” couple, has had deep resonance—especially for biracial and unconventional couples.
  • "The great lesson in all of this...you never know what you're putting out there…" — Gina Torres ([37:00])
• Importance of Kindness: Nathan and Alan praise Gina’s warmth off-camera as well as on, noting it’s key to her professional legacy and personal relationships.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the strange intimacy of sci-fi romance:
  "I tend to play weird people, usually aliens and robots and things that don't have romance. Not a lot of sex on camera."
  — Alan Tudyk ([00:44])

• On acting longevity:
  "I don't worry about staying relevant. I worry about working."
  — Gina Torres ([23:24])

• On industry humility:
  _"I call that being everybody's house guest...and hopefully, you know, your reputation gets out there: 'Oh, no, she's a good house guest.'"
  — Gina Torres ([22:28])

• On Seismic Moments:
  "To work hard on something, to enjoy the success...and then to kick back and let it all hit all over again, but even in a bigger way. Whoa."
  — Nathan Fillion ([29:23])

• On giving and receiving:
  "It’s so humbling to see all that come back in this really beautiful, beautiful way."
  — Gina Torres ([38:47])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Opening jokes & chemistry: [00:00]–[02:10]
• Firefly trailer mispronunciations: [05:37]–[06:04]
• Reflections on Firefly’s uniqueness: [07:33]–[09:16]
• Meeting each other & first impressions: [09:21]–[14:01]
• Near-firing/First Lead Nerves: [15:08]–[16:48]
• Gina’s “Fame” school stories: [17:11]–[18:45]
• The “House Guest” phase: [22:28]
• Advice for long-term survival in acting: [23:24]–[24:52]
• On “Suits” global resurgence: [28:41]–[30:19]
• Iconic Wash & Zoe scenes: [31:56]–[36:38]
• The legacy and impact of Zoe & Wash: [37:00]–[38:54]
• Closing mutual appreciation: [39:52]

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is warm, playful, and candid—moving fluidly between backstage goofiness, practical industry advice, and genuine reflection. The camaraderie and mutual admiration among the hosts and Gina Torres are palpable, as are the lessons about humility, persistence, and the unpredictable magic of genre TV.

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For fans or newcomers, this episode is:

• A nostalgic celebration of “Firefly”
• A treasure trove of behind-the-scenes anecdotes
• A meditation on the nature of artistic careers, resilience, and friendships that endure across time and genres

Final words from the hosts:
"Clearly, Alan and I love you to death. We adore you and thank you so much for doing this."
— Nathan Fillion ([39:52])

"The feeling is mutual. Oh, yes."
— Gina Torres ([39:52])

Transcript

[Gina Torres]

You're an excellent kisser, Alan.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yes, so are you. It was great. We made out for a long time.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Nathan Fillion]

Alan has talked about this on more than one occasion. It left an impression, an indelible, lasting, etched in stone impression on Alan. It's a well known fact you have the largest lips in show business.

[Gina Torres]

That's right.

[Nathan Fillion]

How do you compete with that? Alan's got these little paper clips over his teeth. Is he going to be consumed entirely? Is he dancing? Is he fighting for his life?

[Alan Tudyk]

Once we were spacemen. I tend to play weird people, usually aliens and robots and things that don't have romance.

[Nathan Fillion]

I once didn't get a job where they were looking for a Nathan Fillion type. Once we were spacemen.

[Alan Tudyk]

Once we were spacemen.

[Nathan Fillion]

Alan Tudyk, Nathan Fillion. Today we have a guest on our podcast who is not only an incredibly talented actress and lovely human being, but a friend of ours. Yes, we basically were calling on. My favorite guests are the ones that feel indebted to us, that we have to somehow. That they have to do the podcast, and they do.

[Alan Tudyk]

It's for people that when we say we once were spacemen, they say, me too. I was a spaceman or a space woman.

[Nathan Fillion]

In this case, kindred spirits. Yes, you might say yes, you might say yes.

[Alan Tudyk]

Similar experiences in life, if not.

[Nathan Fillion]

This particular guest has a special place, I think, in our hearts.

[Alan Tudyk]

She got a big one in mind, that's for sure. You'll hear about it as we talk to her. It'll just be coming. It'll be oozing out of me. Not in a gross way, but in one that requires some cleanup.

[Nathan Fillion]

I'll decide how gross it is.

[Alan Tudyk]

Okay. I think it's already proven to be grosser than I wanted it to be.

[Nathan Fillion]

Sometimes it just amazes me that I know these people.

[Alan Tudyk]

Really?

[Nathan Fillion]

Yeah. She's a powerhouse.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah. Like when I look at all the interviews that she has done, you see her on all the mornings. You do these things too. You both have disability. You, you, you. You've got that figured out. You do all the Good Morning Americas, you do the daily shows, you do all of that stuff. She knows how to work it.

[Nathan Fillion]

She's brilliant, she's clever. She knows how to work it. When I'm doing those things, I'm just inside my head thinking, I sure hope my fly is up right now.

[Alan Tudyk]

I think you're multitasking then, because you do the. You do the shows well. So you're thinking about your fly, but you're also doing some good, good stuff.

[Nathan Fillion]

I'M going to share this with you, Alan. Anytime I have a pair of pants that have more than one button at the top. Like, if there's that inside button, then the hook and then another button, I will forget the zipper entirely. If there's one snap at the bottom and a zipper, it's good. If it's a button fly, that's okay, too. But if there's, like, more than one button at the top and a zipper, I will forget the zipper. It's like a disability.

[Alan Tudyk]

That's not good. How did you make it through the 80s? There were so many zippers on pants and buttons and zippers and snaps.

[Nathan Fillion]

I had a zipper tie. One zipper fine. Button fly, fine. Button, zipper, fine. It was just the. It's usually just dress pants that have this one quality.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah, it's so that, that. So that you get a good, secure waistband so it hangs the proper way. It's that exact tour. It's that very simple.

[Nathan Fillion]

I used to wear, like, some. Some of the linen type. Do you remember? Do you remember? I ran into Don Johnson recently, and I was able to thank him for providing my wardrobe for 10th grade and 11th grade. I wore the mesh shoes. My big toes are kind of the same. They kind of point up. Like there's that artist in MAD magazine where the toes almost point, like, off the ground. Yeah, Like a. Curled right up, like a little. Like a little elf shoe. But in those mesh shoes, my toenail would just wear a little hole right through the. Right through the tip of the shoe. And you'd wear them anyway.

[Alan Tudyk]

It was the 10th grade. It was 11th grade.

[Nathan Fillion]

I wasn't impressing anybody.

[Alan Tudyk]

No, they were too focused on your white jacket with the collar upturned to really pay too much attention to your shirt.

[Nathan Fillion]

I don't know if I upturned the collar, but I certainly did the pastel T shirt.

[Alan Tudyk]

I want to guess 70 to 75%. Yes, you had the collar up, but what a treat.

[Nathan Fillion]

Yes, we. Today, our guest is the Lovely and talented Ms. Gina Torres.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yes. The incomparable, the incalculable, the most amazing janitors. All right, and here we are on Once. We were spacemen with another space person who was not a man, but did fly in our spaceship China Tours. Do you remember. Do you guys remember when we were doing Firefly? They. When we first did Firefly, we got the. The first Serenity.

[Nathan Fillion]

When we did Serenity.

[Alan Tudyk]

No, it was Serenity. I thought it was when. When Fox first put together a promo of. Hey, this is what our promo is going to look like, and they said.

[Nathan Fillion]

Our names, so it was Serenity.

[Alan Tudyk]

My name was Alain. To Dick, I think it was Firefly.

[Nathan Fillion]

No, Firefly was mad as well. Be walking on the sun. Ladies and gentlemen, first of all, let's just introduce Gina Torres. Gina, thank you very much. Yes.

[Gina Torres]

Hi, everybody. You're very welcome.

[Nathan Fillion]

Now, what Alan was referencing was the trailer for Serenity had a couple of different versions. It had the guy with the movie voice. You're shaking your head, Alan, but I'm telling you, this is a fact, really? And it went through everybody's names, and it did two versions. And in both versions, he mispronounced Alan's last name. It was Alan Tudyk. And Alan Tudyke.

[Gina Torres]

Jewel was mispronounced, and I think Sean as well.

[Alan Tudyk]

Mayhar.

[Gina Torres]

Maybe. Go on.

[Nathan Fillion]

I don't know. It's a better story if it's only Alan, but, Gina, welcome.

[Gina Torres]

Thank you.

[Nathan Fillion]

Thanks for doing this. We three had dinner together not too long ago in Seattle.

[Gina Torres]

True story.

[Alan Tudyk]

I didn't.

[Gina Torres]

No, you weren't there. I wasn't there.

[Nathan Fillion]

You weren't there. You joined the day for the panel.

[Alan Tudyk]

I came the next day.

[Gina Torres]

Right.

[Nathan Fillion]

All the important people were there. It was really a beautiful dinner. I don't think we've ever had one that was so personable and just loving. Huh?

[Alan Tudyk]

I mean, we've had those before. It's probably similar to those.

[Gina Torres]

That was my first time.

[Alan Tudyk]

It was great to see you all on stage. We didn't get the entire Firefly cast together. We were missing a couple of pieces. But, Gina, you were there. Nathan, you were there, I was there. And that's pretty much most of what people wanted to see. Also, Jewel, who's done the podcast, so I'm gonna include her.

[Nathan Fillion]

We three are tied inextricably together through something that doesn't tie a lot of people together. Not a lot of people have this particular experience of having been on a very short lived, very much loved sci fi TV series. But we all shared this wonderful, bizarre, interesting, heartbreaking, and joyful experience together. Gina, how. How did Firefly change your life?

[Gina Torres]

Oh, did it? Oh, I met you guys.

[Alan Tudyk]

Is that.

[Nathan Fillion]

Oh, yeah, you did.

[Alan Tudyk]

Wait a second. It changed your life more than that.

[Nathan Fillion]

Any regrets?

[Gina Torres]

I don't have any regrets. You know, I was already in the sci fi world.

[Nathan Fillion]

Yes, you were.

[Alan Tudyk]

I was a big fan with Cleopatra 2525 or what?

[Gina Torres]

Was that it? Yeah, it was Cleopatra 2525. And I had also go Hercules, the birth of that fantasy, otherworldly mythological uprising right on tv. And so and so I had a recurring part on Hercules Legendary Journeys and then Xena.

[Nathan Fillion]

Didn't you also participate in.

[Gina Torres]

I did one episode of Xena where I played Cleopatra. And so I was doing like these crazy stunt shows and then Firefly came along and I thought, well, okay, here we go. I guess this is my world now. But it resembled nothing of the worlds that I was previously a part of. So that was interesting. It was Joss's take on what the future looked like. That was really, in a lot of ways more mainstream than the sci fi and the fantasy worlds that I had already been a part of. So that was interesting. So I think in some way it took me out of that very specialized, specific world and brought me into a place that was a little more mainstream than, you know, wearing rubber hot pants and a silver corset as I kept the world safe from evil.

[Nathan Fillion]

So you went from niche to a little more broadly niche.

[Gina Torres]

A little more broadly niche, yes.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah. As a sci fi western.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah.

[Nathan Fillion]

First impressions, Gina? I met you at our costume fitting.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Nathan Fillion]

That was when I first laid eyes on you in person, having already seen you on Cleopatra 25. 25. I said, oh, my God, here's a lady who's. She was living in New Zealand having these incredible stunt oriented scenes on sets somewhere. And then you would do your grappling hook and then you'd come out and they'd put a. Like a manhole cover in the middle of the New Zealand forest somewhere. And you'd pop out of the manhole and you're like, I've said this about New Zealand. It kind of looks like a different planet.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, it does.

[Nathan Fillion]

Everything has a familiarity, but the leaves aren't quite right. All the animals are different, everybody speaks English. It's kind of like Star Trek visiting a family visiting a planet.

[Gina Torres]

Beautiful.

[Nathan Fillion]

I was wildly impressed by you. And we're trying on these outfits, so I was one of the first people to see that statuesque form in that kick ass kind of western warrior wear.

[Gina Torres]

Oh, shit.

[Nathan Fillion]

Little bit pioneer, little bit gunfighter. And I was beside myself, I'm not gonna lie. Do you remember meeting Alan for the first time?

[Gina Torres]

I do.

[Alan Tudyk]

Really?

[Gina Torres]

Yes, absolutely. It was.

[Alan Tudyk]

And I do too.

[Gina Torres]

We were in the hair and makeup trailer.

[Alan Tudyk]

We were in the hair and makeup trailer. We were gonna say it together.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alan Tudyk]

And is that where we really met? The first time was in the hair and makeup trailer.

[Nathan Fillion]

What about the read through? We did a read through.

[Gina Torres]

I don't know. No, it might have been if I was. Everything's so okay. This was a long time ago, guys. Yeah.

[Nathan Fillion]

No, no, this is 25 years. A quarter century. This is a quarter century.

[Gina Torres]

This is a long time ago. So it might have been that we were doing camera tests.

[Nathan Fillion]

Camera testing.

[Gina Torres]

Right, right. That's probably true. They were trying to.

[Alan Tudyk]

They would want to put us together.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah. What our look was going to be.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah.

[Gina Torres]

I was so relieved that. Although I knew, I knew because, you know, Nathan was a big daytime soap opera star.

[Nathan Fillion]

That's right.

[Gina Torres]

And I had worked on One Life to Live. That's right.

[Nathan Fillion]

While I was there. But why do I have.

[Gina Torres]

But he doesn't remember me because he was gonna pay attention to the recurring riffraff.

[Nathan Fillion]

Well, we never had any storylines together, first of all, did we? No, we didn't.

[Gina Torres]

We didn't have any storylines together. We worked on one day. I remember it was like this big Fourth of July episode where everybody played because it was like the camera was roaming from one storyline cast to another storyline cast. So everybody was on deck at the same time. And I just remember because it was. I had on a T shirt and a miniskirt, and it was cold as F on that soundstage. And I could not get my nipples to relax.

[Alan Tudyk]

Oh, my God. It's like something that Nathan would remember.

[Gina Torres]

And it's. They. The whole time. I'd go back outside and just, like, hold them together. It was the most. This was before there were pasties and silicone things. There were the special. No. So that was. And then Nathan. So I remembered how tall you were. And so when I got this job, I remembered, thank God he's tall. Cause I'm so tired of standing there while leading men bitch about having to stand on an apple box next to me. So I was knowing. This is a little background information. I was relieved that you were as tall as you are. While we were going through these costume fittings, when Alan and I met in the hair and makeup trailer, I just remember you brought out a genuine laugh in me. And it just gurgled up, and I said, I can. Yes. These are the men that I want to spend time with.

[Nathan Fillion]

Oh.

[Alan Tudyk]

Aw, that's wonderful. Can I say that? My mother. So once we were doing Firefly, she was always asking me about how tall you were. Since you just mentioned height, she's saying, she looks much taller than you, Alan. And I was like, well, I think I'm actually a little. A little taller than you.

[Nathan Fillion]

Not.

[Alan Tudyk]

Not on tv. You're not. Not on tv. And it's because when I would. When I was in character, you were Wearing a little bit of a heel. And I was always a little slumped. Wash was a little bit slumped. There's no way he would ever stand up to.

[Gina Torres]

No. We're about the same character, aren't we?

[Alan Tudyk]

What's that? We're about I'm five, eleven and a.

[Nathan Fillion]

Half, I think, Gina, you carry yourself taller.

[Gina Torres]

That might be it.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah, I'm ducking usually as I go around life.

[Nathan Fillion]

By the time Gina, you. By the time you did Firefly, if Warren were to look you up on IMDb, you already had 20 plus credits before Firefly. Really, Alan, you were probably the same.

[Alan Tudyk]

No, I did some stuff, but I didn't do all that.

[Gina Torres]

You'd done stuff, you'd done Robin Williams stuff by the time you got to.

[Nathan Fillion]

That's what I said when I first met Alan, was how did we get this movie star? I love how this guy's a movie star.

[Alan Tudyk]

I love how you saw me. It is true. You had done at least 20 things before you came onto Firefly.

[Gina Torres]

Wow.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah, incredible.

[Gina Torres]

I mean, most of you were a.

[Nathan Fillion]

Pro and I was a pebble in a stream with a movie star. A full on pro. And I'm just going with. As the water pushed me thinking, boy, I hope I did ever tell you the story where I thought I got fired? No.

[Gina Torres]

No.

[Nathan Fillion]

So before we hired Morena Backron, we had a young lady on the show who filmed one day with us. And I was constantly afraid of like. Cause this is my first lead role, first one hour drama. I had no idea what I was clearly I had no idea what I was doing. Joss pulls me aside and says, hey, can I talk to you alone? I was like, oh, this is bad. I hope it's. Sure hope I'm not getting fired. And he went for a little walk on the Fox lot and he said, listen, it's nothing personal. Sometimes these things just happen. I went, oh, no. Sometimes things don't work out. I'm like, oh God, this is happening and it's nobody's fault. But we are gonna go a different direction with that Anara character. And I went, oh my God. I had tears in my eyes. I thought that was it for me. But that's the precarious nature of where I was just at that time working with two people. And then Adam Baldwin, he had a forever career. Jewel State probably was in the business longer than all of us put together. By the time she hit that show.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, Ron.

[Nathan Fillion]

It was just Ron. Ron Glass just bringing the class. I was so wildly impressed by you guys and thinking I really gotta pull up my space boots here and keep up with these people.

[Gina Torres]

Never would have guessed.

[Alan Tudyk]

Never would have guessed. Yeah, you keep up from the lead. You happen to keep up from in front of us. It was an interesting way you pulled that off because you were definitely leading the cast. There was no doubt about it. Yeah, you, you were. You were comfortably in charge.

[Nathan Fillion]

Gina, when did you know acting was for you? You went to a famous, like, a hoity toity acting school. You're one of those. Both of you again. Here we are, both of you. Intimidating.

[Gina Torres]

I, I look, when you grow up in New York City, it's actually a public school. It's just a public school that everybody. That couple people made movies about. So I went to the quote unquote Fame school.

[Alan Tudyk]

Is that on 65th? Is that right over there by.

[Gina Torres]

Okay, yeah.

[Nathan Fillion]

You're gonna live forever.

[Gina Torres]

LaGuardia. Yeah, yeah.

[Alan Tudyk]

That's where Moreno went too.

[Nathan Fillion]

You're gonna learn how to fly. Hi.

[Gina Torres]

And yes, exactly. That's the one where we danced on tabletops during lunchtime, drilled out into the streets.

[Nathan Fillion]

Did that ever happen once? Did it ever happen once?

[Gina Torres]

No, but we would take over train cars and just sing. Really? Yeah, we would do that. We would absolutely do that. Whether it was the gospel choir, whether it was the senior chorus or the junior chorus, because whatever our major was, whether it was singing, whether it was a musical instrument or art, we had shows, and those counted for our grade. So twice a year, there would be concerts from every major, there would be a play from every major, there would be an art exhibit from the art majors. And so we would leave rehearsals from chorus. And if a group of us were all going uptown at the same time or downtown at the same time, somebody would break into whatever it was that we were learning. And it would be even better if you had a tenor, an alto, and a soprano.

[Nathan Fillion]

Now, did you walk into that school saying, oh, I guess I'm gonna be an actor? Or did you walk in there saying, this is what I wanna do. I'm gonna be an actress. I'm gonna sing. Or did you walk in there and go, oh, everybody else is doing this. Maybe I'll try.

[Gina Torres]

I knew about the school because my sister went to that school as well, and she was part of. She's older than I am. And so she was actually one of the students that was studying in the school at the time that they were making the original movie.

[Alan Tudyk]

Wow.

[Gina Torres]

I remember seeing the musical theater department do pajama game. I went to that show and one of the lead singers One of the soloists in the film was the lead of the pajama game. The year that I saw it. Wow.

[Alan Tudyk]

So I was just like, starstruck.

[Gina Torres]

It was like my. Like, what is going on here? So that was my world where I had entree into this world that I always knew I wanted to be a part of, but no real way of getting there, because nobody in my family was in show business at really at all. No. I had done a play in junior high where I had a solo and I got applause, thundering applause at the age of. Of 14. And I thought, oh, I like that. That hits. That hits just right. How do I get more. By the time I was a senior in high school and I was applying to all the colleges and I knew I didn't want to go to college. I knew. I knew I wanted to hit the streets and start. And I was in one of two cities in the country where you could do that.

[Alan Tudyk]

Right, right.

[Gina Torres]

You know, where most people, like, if they screw up, they go home. Well, if I screwed, I was already home.

[Alan Tudyk]

If you can make it there, they say you can make it. Really? Mostly.

[Nathan Fillion]

You're the youngest of three siblings.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Nathan Fillion]

Now, your sister went to the same school, but she didn't pursue the entertainment industry.

[Gina Torres]

She studied film. So she went to visual arts, private university, studied film to become a filmmaker, actually to become a director of photography, and then fell in love with photography. So she has been a very successful photographer and living in. Yeah, she's. She's got shows. She's. What's her name? Gisela Torres. And she's been living in London.

[Nathan Fillion]

What is it like being the famous sibling, the recognizable sibling.

[Gina Torres]

They care less.

[Nathan Fillion]

God bless family.

[Gina Torres]

I know, right? Very proud, I will say, Very, very proud. They more than anything, I think, because I was so doggedly persistent about doing this. And we all know it's not easy. Everybody listening to this, I hope, understands how brutal it is. And then it was even more brutal once I was in the thick of it, trying to figure out where I fit in, or actually, I didn't have the problem figuring out where I fit in. It was convincing everybody else of where I fit in. There's a great deal of pride there.

[Nathan Fillion]

From them that doesn't surprise me.

[Alan Tudyk]

And especially looking at your career the way that it started because you had 20 credits before you were in Firefly. You have a career where you've been working and things have. Is it either one episode here, one episode here, and then taking that last episode and pointing to it as you go into another Room and go, look what I just did.

[Gina Torres]

Shouldn't you give.

[Alan Tudyk]

You should give me this job now? And just having to scrap and.

[Gina Torres]

Yep, I call that being everybody's house guest. I was everybody's favorite house guest for years. And sometimes they let you stay a weekend, which is like, you know, a longer arc. Sometimes it's a three episode arc, sometimes it's two, sometimes it's four. And yeah, you just keep building and keep building and keep building and hopefully, you know, your reputation gets out there as. Oh, no, she's a good house guest. She's something that you want on your side.

[Alan Tudyk]

Oh, that's good.

[Nathan Fillion]

The question for both of you, you both have similar backgrounds from the same city. What is the key to success? And not just like, hey, I want to be an actor, what should I do? Like, what would you tell someone who is actually in the business? That they know what they're doing. They got their foot in the door, so to speak. I mean, Gina, you've had a long career. How do you stay relevant? What is the key?

[Gina Torres]

I don't worry about staying relevant. I worry about working.

[Nathan Fillion]

Oh my God, I've been doing it wrong. I knew it.

[Gina Torres]

I've been so blessed. I've been so blessed to have gotten parts in shows that somehow hit the zeitgeist at just the right time. And so, you know, if you're part of something that is resonating with people, then you get the effects of that. Right. Sort of guilty of disassociation. Be lucky, what I'm saying.

[Nathan Fillion]

But that'll only carry you so far. You had to do something.

[Gina Torres]

So I can only speak for myself. Yes, but I think for me, what has worked is not being precious. Because there is always something to learn. There is always a person to meet. There is always an opportunity in every job. And so if you wait for the stuff that is hot in the moment, then you're missing out on really sharpening your toolkit. And so that's part of not being precious about it. And the only way, honestly, I mean, you have to love the game, you have to be in it for the love of the game. You have to love what you do and be passionate about what you do.

[Alan Tudyk]

Because, yeah, to specify the game, the game being the acting of the craft of acting. That.

[Gina Torres]

Okay, right. The craft of the game, the acting part of it. If that in and of itself isn't sustainable to you, then the rest of it sure as hell won't be.

[Nathan Fillion]

Agreed.

[Alan Tudyk]

It's all that saves you. Usually is when you get the. The when you get to do it, finally, the feeling you get of doing it and creating and having that come together.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Alan Tudyk]

Those moments. That's what.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Alan Tudyk]

Spurs you on to continue the hustle.

[Gina Torres]

Absolutely. I was. I was just as excited about what I could do between action and cut on Hercules as I was about what I could do between action and cut on Lone Star, on suits, on. It's just.

[Alan Tudyk]

I don't know about that.

[Gina Torres]

We do.

[Alan Tudyk]

I don't.

[Nathan Fillion]

I don't.

[Alan Tudyk]

I think that's a very generous thing to say, but I. I met you soon after you did Cleopatra. 25. 25.

[Gina Torres]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Alan Tudyk]

And we talked about.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, yeah. I didn't say it was easy. You're right.

[Alan Tudyk]

That's what. That's what you're talking about being precious. That when you're in a situation where it's tough and you have. And you have challenges that you look for the good challenges that you can sharpen your tools with and not look to the thing that's going wrong. Because it's really easy to be in a. In a job going, that's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong.

[Gina Torres]

Absolutely.

[Alan Tudyk]

And that's bad House guest.

[Gina Torres]

I mean, I had. I had to make sense of ridiculous shit.

[Alan Tudyk]

Why am I wearing rubber pants, for God's sake? It's hot as hell.

[Gina Torres]

And I got to the end of the day and I went, yeah, I did that. Yeah, I did that. Yeah, I did. Yeah.

[Nathan Fillion]

I always wondered in that dystopian future, who was doing your hair? You girls had some amazing hairdos. I was like, they get up pretty early and someone's gotta be doing.

[Gina Torres]

We had a robot.

[Nathan Fillion]

There you go.

[Alan Tudyk]

God bless the robots.

[Nathan Fillion]

Gina, what was your. Not your first gig, but the one that was your big break? The one that propelled you and where you said, holy crap, I think I've made it. Oh, the one that set you on the motherhood. Now this, like, for her motherhood. The greatest role ever.

[Gina Torres]

There's some truth to that, I bet.

[Nathan Fillion]

Actually.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, there is some truth to that. I don't believe there is any one thing. I mean, certainly for me. Certainly for me, there wasn't any one thing. It was a combination of many things. Like I said, it was a combination of a lot of being a lot of house. Being a house guest in a lot of different houses and meeting the challenge every time. That was the thing. It's like, oh, she met that bar. She did not disappear standing next to Dabney Coleman. She did not disappear standing next to Alan Tudyk.

[Alan Tudyk]

Alan Tudyk. Thank you. I got it. You also had the rare thing, which is you did a show and it had its success in suits. And then not only did you have a spin off that you produced, but you made happen, which is a whole different kind of artistry. And you built the house for the house for all the guests to come in, but also it became popular many years after. It was like the hottest show.

[Nathan Fillion]

That was incredible.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nathan Fillion]

How did that feel? That must have come out of left field.

[Gina Torres]

It did, and it came out of left field just as everybody was coming out of their houses again, because it became really popular during COVID So I went from being on a popular show and being recognized to now, all of a sudden, people are back out in the world, experiencing it and telling their friends, did you see this the first time around? You need to see this. And suddenly, like, the supermarket that I'd been going to for years and years and minding my own business and getting suddenly, like, the cashiers who knew me were like, I started watching. I'm like, wow, K.

[Nathan Fillion]

That'S incredible. What a pleasant surprise that something that you did such a great job on, by the way. You do calm control so well. You've got that in a bottle. It's so great watching you. But to work hard on something, to enjoy the success of something, to have a positive experience and then to kick back and let it all hit all over again, but even in a bigger way. Whoa. Who does that happen to?

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, yeah. Well, it happened to six of us.

[Alan Tudyk]

That's crazy. That's like when people go to. When actors go places, they're like, hey, I'm big in Japan. I had no idea. I'm suddenly famous. But you were suddenly famous in your home, at your favorite places that you went to. It's just coming out after the pandemic.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah, yeah. And we were. We were actually were bigger in Europe than we were here in the States until, you know, until the Netflix of it all happened.

[Alan Tudyk]

Wow.

[Gina Torres]

So that was interesting, too. That was interesting. Traveling abroad and having that kind of response. And it's something about that character in particular, like, Jessica Pearson just is so beloved by women in particular, but also by men and young people. You know, it's. It's a very.

[Nathan Fillion]

She comes in, she rocks the room all the time.

[Gina Torres]

There's pretty much. Yeah, there's that. She. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's dressed really well.

[Nathan Fillion]

Oh, yeah, she does. Amazing.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah, I noticed. I don't want to say anything that would be bad, but there's something. When I think back on Firefly with Gina, and I think back to our days in Firefly, and as we were working, I know you two play leading men and leading ladies. You play romantic interests. You have romantic interests. I had one in Firefly with Gina, which is. It's rare for me. I tend to play weird people, usually aliens and robots and things that don't have romance. Not a lot of sex on camera. I haven't had to deal with that. I don't. And when I do, it's usually done for the benefit of humor that I'm doing such a bad job of it, or we're so mismatched in the situation. It's just a. It's a. It's a lot. See, the whole thing is just wrong. So, Gina, when I think about you, I have a big fondness in my heart because you're one of the few marriages that I had. And also, we had to make out one time.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Alan Tudyk]

Remember?

[Gina Torres]

Yes. We made out for hours.

[Alan Tudyk]

So it was on the episode of our Mrs. Reynolds.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah.

[Alan Tudyk]

And I don't even know if we appear in that scene, except for just.

[Nathan Fillion]

A brief flash as we pass by you for a hot second.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah.

[Alan Tudyk]

And then I think maybe they use a little piece of that for the opening where the two of us are on a bale of hay and we're smiling.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Alan Tudyk]

And that was the night.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah.

[Alan Tudyk]

So the director we had just said, you're in every shot.

[Gina Torres]

Pretty much. Because every time he did a pass, first of all, we were, like, in each other's faces. So no idea of when the camera was coming at us, going, walk. You know, walking past us, through us. And done. Right. Until they yelled at me.

[Nathan Fillion]

You had no idea when you were gonna be on lens?

[Gina Torres]

No.

[Nathan Fillion]

During the shot.

[Gina Torres]

Yeah. Cause usually they're like, okay, they're past you. Or usually. But it's like everything kept going and moving because it was what it was. And I just. Yeah, we were in a clincher. You're an excellent kisser, Alan.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yeah, so are you. It was great. We made out for a long time.

[Gina Torres]

Yes.

[Nathan Fillion]

Alan has talked about this on more than one occasion. It left an impression, an indelible, lasting, etched in stone impression on Alan. And he does the same thing every time. He'll say, you know. And he'll look up, you know, There was a time. I know, Alan. There was a time when we had to kiss. I know, Alan. And we didn't know when to start, when to stop. We just had to, like, the whole time. And we. It was Hours. I know, Alan.

[Gina Torres]

I heard you were a little obsessed with it as well. Nathan, listen, I had questioned that whole time.

[Nathan Fillion]

I had to walk around and I'm just looking over at you guys going, well, there's someone's having all the fun.

[Gina Torres]

I heard that there were specific questions asked about that.

[Nathan Fillion]

I wanted to know.

[Gina Torres]

Uh huh. Do tell.

[Nathan Fillion]

Listen.

[Gina Torres]

I'm listening.

[Nathan Fillion]

It's a well known fact you have the largest lips in show business.

[Gina Torres]

That's rad.

[Nathan Fillion]

How do you compete with that? Alan's got these little paper clips over his teeth. Is he going to be consumed entirely? Is he dancing? Is he fighting for his life?

[Gina Torres]

There you go. Actually, I remember we were getting touch ups and I think there was. We had a makeup artist and my usual makeup artist wasn't there. She was probably working on somebody else. And there was another makeup artist who pulled out what's a standard lip brush and she was going to retouch my lips. And you're standing. Do you remember this? You're standing there. And I, and I quoted Jaws in that moment. And I looked at her and I said, you're going to need a bigger brush.

[Nathan Fillion]

I called. I didn't even know the difference. And I called it. I swear I shouldn't have spoiled it.

[Alan Tudyk]

Well, it was a beautiful. It was a beautiful. It was a beautiful night. But that did leave a. I don't.

[Gina Torres]

Remember you left him here. I don't remember you being overwhelmed at all.

[Nathan Fillion]

He was hanging on for dear life.

[Gina Torres]

I will say I'm willing to go to another episode. Gosh, which one was it? It's actually the only bed scene that we had. It's where Skoeto.

[Nathan Fillion]

Where Alan's doing his eulogy.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yes.

[Nathan Fillion]

There's the.

[Gina Torres]

And yeah, who cares? The world may be ending and the whole thing. And as much as we made out there, there was an even more intimate moment. And that scene when. Yes, you slapped my butt. And so. And so. Don't call. It's too late to call hr. But what's so great about But. But it was a surprise. But it was this wonderful surprise because if you notice, I didn't even flinch.

[Nathan Fillion]

Not a flinch.

[Alan Tudyk]

Oh my God.

[Gina Torres]

That was the level of trust. It felt natural and closeness.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yes.

[Gina Torres]

And just like it was just like we're married.

[Alan Tudyk]

Yes. It felt like it wasn't planned, that's for sure. It just happened.

[Nathan Fillion]

That was something you two did very, very well because you were unlikely as a couple. Your two characters were an unlikely couple. But man, that marriage had love and respect. It had what it needed. And you guys sold that really, really well. Congrats. Well done.

[Gina Torres]

Thank you.

[Nathan Fillion]

Have I told you what a great job you did on Firefly?

[Gina Torres]

No, not yet. But I will say, this is what I will say about that. This is something that I've learned in retrospect, because you talk about the work. That's how we started this, and what's important about what you put out there and. And really caring about. You're in service to the script, and you're in service to the characters. And so you have to have love and respect for what you do to make that happen. It's not a perfect world. And I remember being frustrated while I was doing Firefly because I. Because I wanted to do more, right? I was like, give me the ball. Give me the ball. Give me the ball. Like, let me out. Let me do this. But it never. You can feel that way. Like, both things can be true. You can feel that way and still serve your character, still serve the script, right? Still serve the story. So I say all that to say all these years later, right? You just. You never know what you're putting out there. You never know how the energy and the stories that you're a part of and that you're putting out into the universe, you never know how they're landing on any individual person, on any individual family, on any individual couple. So the great lesson in all of this is all these years later, when we go to the cons, when we meet people on the street, what our marriage meant to fans of the show and our dedication to each other and that couple, how it resonated with biracial couples, with couples that people wouldn't necessarily put together.

[Alan Tudyk]

With men with paperclip lips who struggle to be understood.

[Gina Torres]

It's so humbling to see all that come back in this really beautiful, beautiful way.

[Nathan Fillion]

You know, that's the version of, like, when you talked about when you were in junior high school and you had a song and you sang it to roars, applause. TV doesn't give you that anymore. You don't wrap up a scene to applause, but 25 years later, you're walking down the street and someone stops and says something meaningful to you. Wow. I've noticed throughout my career, when I meet people, the ones that stick around are only the ones I like. You do deliver. You do a fantastic job. You call upon your craft. The job you do is amazing. But it's also what you do and how you treat people behind the camera. It's how you treat the others around you. I think that is Part of your longevity is who you are as a human being and what you bring to not the show, but the day to day with everybody you gotta spend time with. Clearly, Alan and I love you to death. We adore you and thank you so much for doing this.

[Gina Torres]

Thank you. The feeling is mutual. Oh, yes.

[Nathan Filia (podcast host)]

Hello, and thank you for listening. This is Nathan Filia. Now is the part where I read aloud the credits for our show in my best telephone voice. So put on some headphones, lay back and relax because this is our time. If you haven't yet, you can always head over to our Patreon to get bonus content, longer episodes, and a chance to get your hands on some incredible crap. If you love the show, please leave us a review and feel free to tell all your friends. If you didn't love the show, now is the time for quiet contemplation. Once We Were Spacemen is a collision 33 production. Some of the names I will mention are my favorite people in the world, and some of them have room for improvement. You know who you are. If you hear your name being read, please stand up. This show is produced by Siobhan Homan and Josh Lepe of Collision 33. We are edited, mixed and produced by Resonate Recordings, with special thanks to Courtney Blomquist and Adam Townsell. Our theme music is done by Carlos Sosa and Joshua Moore. Artwork by the incredible and incomparable Louis Jensen. But I'm going to tell you right now, I think he faked his accent. Until next time.

[Nathan Fillion]

He was hanging on for dear life.