Once We Were Foolish Girls with Summer Glau | Episode 15

Summary

Once We Were Spacemen

Episode 15: Once We Were Foolish Girls with Summer Glau

Hosts: Nathan Fillion & Alan Tudyk
Guest: Summer Glau
Date: February 18, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this heartwarming and hilarious episode, Nathan Fillion and Alan Tudyk welcome their “Firefly” co-star Summer Glau to reflect on her journey from dancer to beloved actress and now stay-at-home mom. Through candid storytelling and playful banter, the trio explore themes of career pivots, imposter syndrome, the power of fandom, parenting, and the randomness of destiny (including the surprising influence of a camel saddle). For “Firefly” fans and anyone navigating change, the episode offers rich memories, personal insights, and plenty of affection.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Internet Myths & Celebrity Misconceptions

[02:02]

• Nathan opens by asking, “What does the Internet get wrong about you?” highlighting persistent false trivia online.
  • Nathan: “I have never once been engaged. So I don't know how smart you are thinking you are, Mr. Whoever's posting that on the Internet, but you are dead wrong.”
• Summer shares her own discomfort with online information and editing Wikipedia.

2. Firefly, Fandom, and Industry Stories

[03:23–05:40]

• Alan recounts meeting Gail Berman, who is often remembered for cancelling “Firefly.”
  • The group reflects on “Firefly” fandom’s outsized commitment, even before social media was prevalent.
• Summer: “That was before social media was quite as ubiquitous as it is now...They made it happen...Even back then. What could they do now?”

3. Cast Reunions & Where Are They Now

[06:44–07:29]

• Updates on fellow cast members, especially Sean Maher (living in Michigan, “being a dad”) and the joy of watching friends thrive.
• Summer: Shares about her two daughters: “They're complete opposites...My oldest is very bold and confident...my little one is very quiet and shy and loves animals.”

4. Motherhood & Identity Shift

[08:33–13:09]

• Summer details her transition from performer to stay-at-home mom, and the unexpected emotional challenges of redefining herself.
  • Summer: “I realized that every time the phone would ring and every time I would get an audition, I would become very anxious and I was very difficult to be around...It was really hard because that's how I identified myself.”
• The meaning and impact of children being “on your WiFi”—emotionally attuned to their parents.
• Alan and Nathan reflect on how parenting shapes patience and perspective.

5. Beginnings—Dancing, Injury, and Acting

[14:51–21:15]

• Summer’s early life as a ballet dancer, her struggle with injuries (tendinitis, arthritis at age 10), and how a broken toe (on a camel saddle!) led her into acting.
• Her fortuitous involvement in an acting class for adults fearful of public speaking, which led to her first script, her broken toe, and finally, auditions in Los Angeles.

Summer: “Camel saddles can have unexpected impact and unknown uses that can change the course of your destiny.” [41:28]

6. Hollywood Rejection, Persistence, and Landing Firefly

[21:11–26:13]

• Rejection from agents (“you're a foolish girl with no credits”), Summer’s reply letter of defiance, and her first significant break—a “Bell South” commercial.
• Meeting Joss Whedon via a ballet audition (showing up in literal ballet attire), working first on “Angel,” then being cast for “Firefly.”

Nathan: “You have had some unusual roles where they like, hey, we need someone who's kind of, like, off-putting, but can really bring it home and can ground something in reality.” [22:47]

7. Growth, Imposter Syndrome, and Looking Back

[29:16–32:23]

• The communal creativity and “alive” feeling on the “Firefly” set.
• Both Summer and Nathan discuss being critical of their own early work, wishing they could change things if they could go back.
  • Summer: “I just made so many mistakes. I was such an embarrassing character…But I think maybe it's better that way.”

8. What Ifs, Regrets, and the Legacy of “Firefly”

[33:48–34:37]

• Alan: “There’s a point in every episode where...I cannot believe this show was canceled. How good is this show?”
• Nathan: “I constantly think about what Firefly would have evolved into with success, with some budget behind it…”

9. Stepping Back and Possible Returns

[34:53–36:03]

• Summer talks openly about her current priorities as a mom, but considers a potential return to acting, especially as her children become more independent.
  • Summer: “I do miss being creative. I miss the thrill...and I really miss the camaraderie, you know, when you are on a show.”

10. Writing, Creativity, and Internet Distractions

[36:03–37:46]

• Alan discusses his slow writing process and the distractions of the Internet, comparing himself to James Gunn’s disciplined “ten pages a day.”

11. Rapid-fire ‘Get to Know You’ and Personal Revelations

[37:47–39:51]

• “Something we don’t know about you” prompts charming admissions (Alan hits traffic cones for fun, Summer reveals she’s organized but not OCD).
• Family anecdotes, camel saddles, and more tales from youth.

12. Serendipity, Friendship, and “Firefly” Found Family

[41:18–48:48]

• Alan & Nathan recount their New York burrito-waiter connection pre-“Firefly.”
• Reminiscences about the unique chemistry among the cast, especially in scenes that still move them deeply.

Nathan: “What you guys did in that scene [with Sean in Serenity] never fails to elicit a very strong emotional response in me. Ever.” [45:15]

13. The Power of Meaningful Work

[46:26–47:19]

• How conventions, fan engagement, and powerful character portrayals have enduring impact on viewers—and on the actors themselves.
• The group agrees: “It is a privilege. It is a gift. It is an honor to be able to walk away from a project and say, I truly love all of those people.” [48:33]

14. Aging, Perspective, and Leadership

[49:01–51:46]

• The cast reflects on the passage of time (“Has it been 25 years?”), the joys of ongoing work, and the role of leadership in ensemble casts.

15. Gratitude, Ribbing, and Emotional Goodbyes

[53:02–53:44]

• Nathan and Alan recall ribbing Summer on set—“if anything went wrong, we would call out your name to take the piss out of you because we adored you so much.”
• Affectionate farewells and genuine appreciation for the journeys they’ve shared.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nathan: “You have had some unusual roles where they like, hey, we need someone who's kind of, like, off-putting, but can really bring it home and can ground something in reality.” [22:47]
• Summer: “Camel saddles can have unexpected impact and unknown uses that can change the course of your destiny.” [41:28]
• Alan (about writing): “All I need to do is turn off my Internet, because...suddenly 20 minutes are gone...and then you're on a deep dive on factories making cookies.” [37:14]
• Nathan: “If you could go back in time and do Firefly all over again, would you do anything different?” [30:59]
  • Summer: “Oh, so many things...I was such an embarrassing character. Just in general...But I think maybe it's better that way.” [31:06]
• Alan: “I cannot believe this show was canceled. How good is this show? I genuinely feel it, like it's—I have to just take a break, breathe into it.” [33:48]
• Nathan (about the show’s legacy): “It doesn't live in a bubble...everybody can go and access it at any point in time and see what we did.” [48:48]
• Nathan (to Summer): “You may be living in a forest, Summer, but you always live a little bit in our hearts.” [53:04]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:09 | Summer discusses her audition for Firefly and vulnerability in acting | | 02:02 | Discussing internet myths and correcting online info | | 05:57 | Cast party memories and cast check-ins | | 07:33 | Summer describes her daughters, parenting dynamics | | 14:51 | Summer’s early life in ballet and transition to acting | | 21:02 | Hollywood rejections and her break into commercials | | 26:07 | Early “Angel” audition and being cast by Joss Whedon | | 29:16 | The creative energy of Firefly and reflections on growth | | 33:48 | Alan on watching Firefly, “cut too soon” sentiment | | 34:53 | Summer on possibly returning to acting someday | | 36:14 | Alan talks his writing process and distractions | | 37:47 | “Get to know you better” segment | | 41:28 | Camel saddle as accidental catalyst for Summer’s destiny | | 43:04 | Nathan and Alan’s “burrito connection” pre-Firefly | | 45:15 | Nathan’s favorite scene in Serenity | | 46:26 | On convention fans and meaningful connections | | 49:01 | Reflections on 23 years since Firefly | | 53:02 | Affectionate ribbing and goodbyes to Summer |

---

Takeaways & Themes

• Chance and Circumstance: Small, random moments can radically alter careers (the camel saddle!).
• Self-Doubt and Growth: Even the most beloved actors feel insecurity and are their own harshest critics.
• Found Family: The camaraderie among the Firefly cast, both then and now, is genuine and lasting.
• Legacy and Fandom: Powerfully written, short-lived shows can have lifelong, positive impacts for both audiences and creators.
• Change and Identity: Life phases—whether as an artist, a parent, or both—are meaningful, messy, and always evolving.

---

Final Words

The episode beautifully intertwines nostalgia with honest, present-day reflection. For listeners, it’s a touching exploration of how embracing vulnerability, friendship, and change shapes not just careers, but entire lives.

Transcript

[A]

You've always brought something really beautiful and sensible and powerful. The one project I worked on with Firefly, you were always brilliant.

[B]

Thank you. I think it was the. I think it was the moment in time. It was the right role at the right moment in the right environment because I didn't know what I was doing. And I think it actually worked in my favor because river was so unpredictable and so raw and vulnerable. And it's something that I struggled with in my career moving forward is the more people thought they were fans of my work, the more insecure and protective I became.

[C]

Once we were spacemen.

[A]

Spacemen.

[C]

I tend to play weird people, usually aliens and robots and things that don't have romance.

[A]

I once didn't get a job where they were looking for a Nathan Fillion type. Once We Were spacemen.

[C]

Once we were spacemen. And welcome to another episode of Once We Were Spacemen, where Nathan Fillion and Alan Tulik are your hosts who were once at one time spaceman. And when we were spaceman, we were there with space women. And of the women, who was the spaciest that. It was Summer Cloud, a Korean gymnast turned dancer who now is working for the massage. Here she is.

[A]

That took a turn. I didn't see that coming.

[C]

Get all my info from AI and I feel like it's starting to learn off a slope.

[B]

Who gave you my bio?

[C]

That's actually.

[A]

That is something I wanted to talk about. Actually. This is a question I want to start asking people is what does the Internet get wrong about you? Something you see on the Internet. Oh, Summer glow. Little known fact about Summer Glow. And it's something that's. It's entirely untrue. Here's an example. I. When I look myself on the Internet, I have been engaged three times.

[B]

And that's not true.

[A]

I have never. It is not true. I have never once been engaged. So I don't know how smart you are thinking you are, Mr. Whoever's posting that on the Internet, but you are dead wrong. I have never once been engaged.

[B]

Sorry, Nathan. My mistake. Did you ever go on Wikipedia and try to fix any of those errors or.

[A]

That can be done. I can do that.

[B]

Well, I never figured out how, but I hear that you can.

[C]

Yeah, it is something that you can fix. I have a little story for you about how people fix and change, because it is. It is contributor change. When I met. This has to do with Firefly. When I met Gail Berman. I'm telling this story and I know that Gail might not like it, but it's true. Maybe I shouldn't tell this story. You say this all the time.

[A]

Maybe I shouldn't tell this story.

[C]

It's so tough to know she is my boss on an animated thing. But I went to go bring her Con man, which you both were a part of. Thank you, Summer.

[A]

Yeah, Summer did a great job.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Yes. With Joss. The three of you were in the same show.

[A]

That was great.

[C]

And I went to Gail Berman. I said. I was introduced to her. They said, alan, this is Gail. And she goes, oh, I know Alan. And Alan knows me because I canceled Firefly. You know, I've done a lot of things in my career, not just Firefly, but it seems like when you go my Wikipedia page, they always reserve a couple of lines to say, gail Berman, cancel Firefly. They don't say, I picked up Firefly. They say, I canceled Firefly. And when you take it down, it just comes right back up two weeks later. So you're gonna like this pitch. It's called Con Man. It's based on Firefly.

[B]

See, we see, Nathan, you need to just request. Just put it out to the brown coats and they'll take care of it.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Maybe that's what we should do.

[B]

I bet they could. They'll figure it out, I'll tell you that.

[A]

You, you know, you get. You do the social media stuff, and you have people that follow you, and they'll heart what you do. And there's like, levels of engagement, and we enjoy. Because if you say, hey, everybody, follow me on Twitter. And they do, that's a low level of engagement. If you say, hey, I'm doing this thing. I'm trying to raise funds for Conman for a charity, and they come out in droves. That's a level of engagement that is considered to be extremely high, when people will rally when you ask them to. And that's something that we have enjoyed as members of the Firefly cast, that we have fans with extreme levels of engagement.

[B]

And that was before social media was quite as ubiquitous as it is now. Or.

[A]

Yes. I don't know what that word means, but yes, pervasive. You used a lot of ten words today, Summer.

[B]

Yeah, I may have used that word wrong.

[C]

No, no, you did. That was correct.

[B]

But yeah, you know, that was way back when there were just chat rooms. Remember?

[A]

Remember those?

[B]

Yeah, they. They made it happen. Even. Even back then. What could they do now?

[A]

When I was first engaging in chat rooms, my area only had dial up. I didn't even have high speed Internet in Studio City at that house.

[C]

Over there that we used to come over and party at after. We would like every weekend, basically. Party at is kind of. We would. We would have parties, there would be gatherings.

[A]

When we did Serenity, we had. I had everybody over for sushi and some drinks and we played Win, lose or draw. Like a Pictionary type of. We had like the board up by the front door and it was girls against the guys. And boy, man, we were a raucous bunch. We were loud, we were hollering at each other. It was high energy game. I'll not forget that one.

[C]

We don't mess around when it comes to win, lose or draw.

[A]

That's right. You get drawing the same thing. Draw something different.

[C]

Take my life. Take my leg.

[A]

Alan, stop singing. Start guessing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, Summer. So thank you. First of all. Thank you very much for being here. Thanks for doing this. We conceived of this idea and our idea was to pretty much work our way through the entire Firefly cast. I think we're only halfway there at this point.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Well, we got Sean, we got Gina. We have now you. Jewel.

[B]

Jewel.

[A]

Oh, and Alan and I. Boy, we're almost done.

[C]

Ron's people aren't calling me back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I've got bad news.

[C]

Funny.

[A]

No, Ron would have wanted it that way.

[C]

I Ms. Ron. Ms. Ron.

[B]

How's everybody? Where is everybody? Did you call Sean in Michigan?

[A]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's in Michigan. He's. He's being a dad. He's enjoying his life. He's happy. I think he's doing what he has been designed to do. I think having a family is. Is exactly what he's meant for. Boy, he loves those kids.

[B]

He's made a beautiful family.

[A]

Speaking of, how many do you have now?

[B]

I just have two I love.

[A]

Just two.

[B]

Yeah, it's just two. And they're so sweet. And I'm trying to hold. Hold on to the time that flies by.

[A]

What are they like, your kids?

[B]

Well, they're complete opposites. It's so funny they come the way they are, you know, because they come to the same family, but they come as. As they are and meant to be. So my oldest is very bold and very confident and never met a stranger and she wants to be an entrepreneur and she wants to have a bakery and she's very determined. And then my little one is. She's very quiet and shy and she loves animals and she's very sensitive. She's always reading my face, you know, always looking to me to see. I didn't know I was going to Bring up Gwyneth Paltrow, but she said that kids are always on your.

[C]

We always get around to her in every episode.

[B]

Oh dear.

[C]

She comes up.

[B]

But she said, kids are on your WiFi. They're on your Wi Fi network. And I really feel that. And I didn't realize what it was going to be like when I had kids. Only had one friend who had a baby and she was only three months older. So I just didn't know what to expect and how much my life would need to change for me, particularly just because of how I am. And I didn't know what I was going to talk to you guys about because, you know, I'm. I'm a stay at home mom now. And I called my sister and I said, Nathan and Alan, they asked me to be on the podcast. And I'm so scared because I don't know what I'm going to say. And she said, oh, well, you know, Amy Poehler has this podcast that I really enjoy listening to and you should check it out. It's very casual, you know, she just has all of her acting friends on it and they just talk about whatever. So I go on there thinking, okay, well maybe I'll. Maybe it'll build my confidence. And so I picked this episode that Jon Hamm is on and Amy Poehler says, you know, it's so hard to get in touch with John. You know, he's on set, but he said for me to just call him on his cell phone. So we're just going to call him. And. And so she calls him and it's like six in the morning and he answers and he's wearing a tuxedo. He said, I'm sorry, I'm in a tuxedo. And. And then he said, I just got off of a hot air balloon. We just finished shooting this scene. And I'm like, okay, great. So you know, super casual. I can talk about like folding laundry and. Now I organize my grocery list. And anyway, so that was really helpful.

[A]

So did not get too far off track. You're saying kids are on your WI Fi. That's a tremendous amount of responsibility because you have to really monitor your own reactions to things because you know that your kids are tuned into those.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I'm very knee jerk reaction to a lot of things. I need to slow down, I think a little bit. I have maybe in my old age, but I just think that that's a lot of pressure.

[B]

Yes, it was. Because for me, when I was an actor, I really just let everything out. And when I was on my own. That's how I prepared for work and how I prepared for auditions. And I just was able to be really more raw. And then when I had my oldest, it was right during pilot season and I decided that I was just going to go out and go to auditions. And it was so nerve wracking because I had not been working for three months because in my last trimester I couldn't work. And I felt so embarrassed that I hadn't worked in three months. So I went into every room and said, I just had a baby. I'll win. Three days ago, I just wanted to prove that nothing had changed. Nothing. You know, I'm still, I can still do this. And then I realized after the first few months of trying to act like nothing had changed, I realized that everything had changed and that I wanted to be with her around the clock. And I wanted to, I wanted to be the one who was always there with her. And, you know, I co. Slept with her. And I realized that every time the phone would ring and every time I would get an audition, I would become very anxious and I was very difficult to be around. I thought it would change. And my manager, she really, she was really very encouraging and she said, why don't you just keep the door open so that if something comes along that you really, that you really love, you can go for it. But I just found it too hard to keep one foot in and one foot out because I felt like I really became more and more disconnected from it. But I needed to do that. And that's what I've felt for me, that I've needed to do. I see other girls able to really seamlessly do both. But for me, everything shows. Like I said, they can tell if I wake up and I'm just having an off day. And it really does affect them. I felt like the work I was able to turn in just wasn't maybe as exciting or as alive because I was kind of distracted at first. It was really hard because that's how I identified myself. And now that I've had years of separation, I'm much more comfortable with it. And I've loved it. And it's going by so quickly. I can't believe how quick it goes.

[C]

You mean with your children, like the, the time goes by that they're so fast?

[B]

Yeah, so fast. And I've loved every age. Every age, it shifts so quickly. And it's funny, like when you talk to moms about strategizing about, you know, how you're going to deal with certain issues. I just, over time realized it won't be an issue in six months because everything changes so quick.

[C]

That's. That's a special kind of patience.

[B]

Ah.

[C]

It's just six months away. I got this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I can handle this for six months. It'll change.

[B]

Much more patient than I used to be, but yeah. Sean. I remember the first time I met his baby. His first baby, when he first became a parent. He pulled up behind me in Los Feliz. You know, neither of us live there, but I don't know why. We just both happened to be driving around in Los Feliz, and he pulled up behind my car, and so we both pulled over and he opened the door and he says, look, I have a baby. And it was really cool. It goes fast. You know, his are in high school now. No, he has one in college.

[C]

That's right. I mean, I listened when we did our podcast. That's crazy. And Gina has a baby. Adam always had babies.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Out of Wed. No, that's not true. He just had the two children that he came in with.

[B]

And then Adam was always a dad. When we knew him, he was kind of like the dad. And I had so much fun with them because I was new in la. When we did Firefly, I didn't really know anybody, and he would have me over for dinner.

[C]

You were 12, if I'm remembering correctly.

[B]

I was mentally 12, yeah.

[C]

Were you 17 or 18?

[B]

I think I had just turned 19.

[C]

19.

[A]

And you. Did you consider yourself an actor at that point? Point. Because you were first a dancer, Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Spent how many years training for that?

[B]

Well, I started dancing when I was five, and then, you know, I joined a junior company when I was 12. And then I meant to keep dancing, but I had a number of injuries that just were not healing well. And I.

[A]

Feet, toes, hips.

[B]

I had really bad tendonitis in my heels. I got arthritis in my toes when I was 10. From dancing.

[C]

From doing pointe shoes and stuff like that. From ballet. Pointe shoes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a tough life.

[C]

Yeah, dancing is. But I. Can I say that. My wife, Cortis, of course, a choreographer and a dancer, and she said, you're very good. She said, oh, she's actually good. She actually has training, she said, which is. That sounds like she's a snotty person, but you know how dancers are. Like, there'll be a. A. A billboard of a ballerina, and she'll be like, what the hell? Look at her hand, look at her knee. Look at her. Like, her Line is off, this is off, this off like that there. You're just trained because you're doing it for yourself so much that other people drumming that into your head that you see it as well. And technique is important. And she was. She liked your dance.

[B]

She did. She said that?

[C]

Yes, she did. She said she might have arthritis in her toes, though.

[A]

But other than that, that's all she said.

[B]

That's actually awesome.

[A]

Was. So was it the injuries that made you say, maybe I pointing myself in another direction?

[B]

Well, partly. I had a feeling that I was going to be an actor even from a very young age, but I was homeschooled and there were really no outlets to any kind of acting for me because I didn't, you know, I didn't go to any school and I was in all the church plays, except I was supposed to be Mary in the Nativity and I got pneumonia. I remember it distinctly that that was one of the greatest sorrows of my life, that I had to stay home that. That night.

[A]

I thought they would demote you to like, oh, you're gonna be the sheep now.

[B]

We'll put you in the back. I was coughing too much, so I had to stay home.

[C]

You're one of those popular animals.

[A]

Who got the role then? Who got the role?

[B]

My mom didn't tell me. Even back then. I took things really hard.

[A]

No one got the. They can't worry about it. They can't sit at all because they.

[B]

Can'T sell the native.

[A]

So no outlets for drama and acting. As you are being homeschooled, you don't really have the. The right access. So what. How. How did you land in it so, so profoundly my.

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of a. I. I don't know how I got. I don't know how I got here. Honestly, I just. My mom enrolled me in this class for. For. It was actually a class for adults who were afraid of public speaking. And it was in an old Jazzer size building, and I was the only Jazzer size building. Yeah, it was in an old Jazzercise. And the woman who was running it was this amazing professor from the University of Miami. I don't know how she got to San Antonio, but she was just trying to get these adults to express themselves. And that's the only acting class that I took before I came to la. And it's so weird, you know, that one of the guys in the class was a playwright and he thought he saw something in me and he said, I've written this script and I want you to read it. So I took it home and I read it. It was the first script I'd ever seen was this guy in the Jazzercise class. So I was so excited. Cause it was a script. And anyway, I had the script laid out on the ground and I. The phone rang, I scooped a script up, I ran in the living room, I jumped over this camel saddle that my mom had in there, and I broke my toe. So once I broke my toe, I had to take a break from my ballet for the summer. And that's when I went to LA the first time. Cause I had a friend who was. He was a dancer, but he was doing, like commercials, you know, more. More like commercial work. I could still dance. I just couldn't wear my pointe shoes. So he said, you should come out to la. And there was this manager that I met who was scouting people in San Antonio. He. He said, come out and I'll send you out on auditions. So I went for three weeks and I got a commercial and.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

What was the product?

[C]

Not easy.

[B]

It was a Bell south telephone commercial. And.

[A]

And what was your role? What was your line?

[B]

I played a rather greedy young bride whose dad was over budget on the wedding. And it was a really fun commercial. And I remember Winnie Cooper was at the audition, too. I got to see her in person, and it was so exciting for me because people had told me all through my childhood that I looked like her. Yeah.

[A]

You bear a resemblance?

[B]

Yes, kind of. Yeah. More when I was young.

[C]

This is from Winnie Cooper. From growing?

[B]

No, from wonder years. Danica McKellar. She might not have been auditioning for the same thing. Cause, you know, back then, the commercial studios, where they weren't audition people, there were just big waiting rooms and they would have different signup sheets and things and. But I saw her. It was such a thrill, you know, being a kid. Even though I'm from San Antonio and it's a big city, I was a really small town kind of person. I had really big dreams and I wanted to travel and I wanted to see beautiful things and I wanted to feel. So that was really exciting for me to see that I could get paid. Get paid to act. Yeah, yeah. So it was cool. I just went to Samuel French. Remember Samuel French? You would go into the agency book, and I just sent my headshot out to everybody.

[C]

I mean, yeah, but that is such a shot in the dark. Like, that is not like the way you do it. That's one way. And it's. That is.

[A]

That's like a good luck Yeah.

[B]

I was so lucky.

[C]

Good. Good luck. If that'll come back. And. And it worked.

[B]

It worked. I sent my. I sent my headshots out, and I got some meetings. You know, I signed up with more like youth agents in the beginning. And one agent wrote to me, and he said, you're a foolish girl, and you have no credits, and you have no right to think that you're. That you could just be an actor. You need to go to college and, you know, learn how to act. And I wrote him back. I don't know why my mom let me do that, but I wrote back to him, and I said, I. I know I can do this. And then I spent my first year dancing. I think it took me 10 months to meet Joss and get. To get. Get on Angel.

[A]

Wow. Okay. I can't believe that rather than just say, I'm not going to represent this girl, someone will reach out and say something so very negative, like, I'm gonna try to discourage you in this way, like, you don't know what you're doing.

[B]

He wrote me a letter.

[A]

You're foolish.

[B]

Yes. He was very.

[C]

I love that you stood up to him.

[A]

I love that you wrote that back and said, to hell with you. What do you know?

[B]

My mom. I think my mom and that guy.

[A]

Had to watch you on tv, by the way. He had to watch you on that wonderful show Firefly. He had to watch it.

[B]

Oh, I hope he saw it.

[C]

I know. I. I hope he had to drive by that poster view from Terminator where you were just tall as a building. Foolish girl.

[A]

Every time I drove by that Hollywood and Highland. Hollywood and Highland, Yeah.

[C]

Foolish Girls. Foolish Girls, Yeah.

[A]

I used to drive by that big old billboard all the time and go, yeah, man, summer's rocking it. By the way, you were great on that show.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

I didn't see every episode, but I saw a couple. I went, she is just hitting you. You have had some unusual roles where they like, hey, we need someone who's kind of, like, off putting, but can really bring it home and can ground something in reality.

[C]

But we're talking to her or me.

[A]

Both of y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

That's right. We got the same thing. Both from Texas, both robots, both odd.

[A]

Yeah. If you had a niche, it would be very specific. I'm not saying that you. You can't do more, and you have done more.

[B]

But.

[A]

But there is something that you can do that you're very gifted at, this kind of otherworldly quality where you're not quite. You had to Invent something from the ground up. It's not something that everybody can do. I. E. Me. I can't do that.

[B]

Well, I can't. I can't do what you guys do either.

[A]

You're not old enough.

[C]

No, I think you. We actually. You and I have a. I never thought of it. We have a similar thing. Like you can. I bet you edged out a lot of people. Well, Josh. Did he write the rule for you? I want to back up. And when. How did you meet Josh? Because I don't know that story. I don't know how.

[A]

I want to back up a little bit first, because this all happened because you. Your mom had a camel saddle.

[C]

Yeah. That's okay. I want to back up.

[A]

You were from riding camels.

[C]

In your family are now in the massage.

[B]

Weird.

[C]

Yeah. Who was riding camels?

[B]

My mother's father was in the military, and she lived in Libya as a kid, and they collected a lot of cool stuff.

[A]

One hump or two? The saddle. Does that work for a two humped camel or a one humped camel?

[B]

Well, I'm gonna have to ask her.

[C]

Depends on what your rank is. Two humps. That's a general.

[A]

So thank God for that saddle because that changed the course of everything.

[B]

I think it did.

[A]

And then you get a phone call. Someone says, hey, Joss Wheaton, have you heard of Joss Whedon?

[B]

I hadn't.

[A]

What was that day?

[B]

Well, I wasn't allowed to watch any of those kinds of shows. I know I was 19, but see, I. I conservative family. And my mom had read this book.

[C]

Were you Mennonites? I'm just trying to gauge on conservative level, not. Oh, just papa.

[B]

Got it, got it, got it. Okay. So my mom read this book when we were young called Turmoil in the Toy Box. And so we weren't allowed to watch anything that was, you know, witchy or had any, you know, demons in it or anything like that. So, you know, Harry Potter is out. Yeah, that would have been an influence that. I mean, I've seen it now as an adult, but so I didn't watch any of, like, the vampire type stuff. I didn't know who Joss was. I. I went to the audition because they said they wanted a ballet dancer. I missed the ballet audition, and so my manager snuck me into the callback. I read I wore a ballet uniform, which was so embarrassing. Now I look back and I think, oh, gosh, you weren't supposed to dress, so literally for the part. But I didn't know. So I was standing there in my you know, in my tights and my leotard. And I did the monologue. It was a monologue. I didn't know that Joss was in the room, but he said, will you go out and come back and do it with an accent? So I came in and tried to do it with a British accent. And then he and Amy decided to cast me. And he said. He told Amy, I hope she doesn't have feet of cement, because I don't know if she can dance.

[C]

But feet of cement, you know, which is a movie.

[B]

I don't know. Is it something like. It was something. You know, something but, like, more poetic. He said, where. Where have you been? And he flipped over my fake resume. He read chorus from Paint yout Wagon, Majestic Theater in San Antonio, Texas. And that was it. And I wasn't even in the chorus. I was just a dancer in it. And, yeah, he cast me in it. Then he told me when I was on set, he said, I'm writing this new show, and, you know, maybe you could come audition for. There's one role that you might be right for. And that was, I think, a month later.

[A]

Oh, the initial audition was for Buffy. Right.

[B]

It was Angel. So I didn't. My first thing was that one episode of Angel.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

And that's when I met you. I met you first, Nathan.

[A]

That's right. I remember seeing you at the thing. I had to go in five times.

[B]

Oh, you did?

[C]

Five times?

[A]

Five times. And, like, the fifth time, they said, they think you keep doing it the same. And I said, I am doing it the same. I haven't gotten any notes. They said, oh, they want you to do it funnier. I said, oh, someone's got to tell me. No one told me. No one told me. Try something different. So I got in. I said, hey, just so everybody knows, I can take direction. The notes didn't get to me. I didn't know you wanted to see it funnier now. You will see it funnier now that I know. So here we go. Boom. And on my way out, I saw Summer there, and I said, I hope she doesn't have feet of cement.

[B]

Maybe it was concrete. I don't know. He said something about, you know, like.

[C]

No, that's.

[B]

Yeah, so you.

[A]

I hope she doesn't have two lead feet, you know.

[C]

So, wait, how did you have an English accent, coming from Texas, never going to drama school, you know. You know, watching limited amounts of.

[B]

Because I watched Pride and Prejudice a million times, and that was my. Sense and Sensibility was my favorite movie. So I just watched it over and over and over again. I watched Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, Anne of Green Gables and the Rocky series, and that was like it. That was my influence.

[A]

And such a strange little collection.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That made it past the censors. There was no magic or demons in there.

[B]

My parents really liked it.

[C]

And then it paid off. It's like the saddle. It's like you just. You're Owen Meanie. You've learned all the important. The things you needed to know for that moment.

[A]

It wows me because knowing that Firefly was your second project outside the commercial, let's say. Let's say, like, the acting portion of it, I always say, like, oh, there's, you know, there's folks who can. You can point them in the right direction, say. Say this line and. And they can do that. And then there's, like, people who have, like, a knack for acting above that. And then you go higher, up, higher, and there's, like, people have an intrinsic ability to understand and to tap into something that communicates feelings and emotions and stories and can move people. And Summer, you've always been up there. You've always brought something really beautiful and sensible and powerful. The one project I worked on with Firefly, you were always brilliant.

[B]

Thank you. I think it was the moment in time. It was the right role at the right moment in the right environment because I didn't know what I was doing. And I think it actually worked in my favor because river was the one unpredictable and. And so raw and vulnerable. And it's something that I struggled with in my career moving forward, is the more people thought they were fans of my work, the more insecure and protective I became. I don't know if you guys ever struggle with that, because you guys bring. Not only do you bring so much to each character that you take on, but you're also bringing, like, a creative force, like, to every set that you're on and a confidence where you can be really unpredictable and spontaneous and just alive. And I guess, you know, now you're producing and you're directing. And that was something that I wasn't comfortable doing. As I went on, you know, what was suggested to me, well, maybe you should start trying to come up with your own projects and being more proactive instead of just trying to be whatever someone's looking for for a particular character. But that was really scary for me. And with River, I just think that it. It worked for me that I didn't have anything to protect yet. I could be very free it was a very safe environment, and it was a very creative environment, which I haven't quite experienced in the same way. Again, the cast was just very alive somehow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

If you could go back in time, Summer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If you go back in time and do Firefly all over again, would you do anything different?

[B]

Oh, so many things. That question in general. I'm always so baffled by people who are like, I wouldn't change a thing. Really. Like, I would change so many things that I did. So many. I just made so many mistakes. I was such an embarrassing character. Just in general, you know, just. I made a lot of mistakes. I didn't know what I was doing. But I think maybe it's better that way. Would you change anything?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Listen, I. My experience was not that different because I. Although no one would give me a chance to play a lead role, we think he's good. We don't know if he can carry a show. You're never going to know until someone gives me a show. So Joss was the guy. He was the number one. He said, I'm going to give this kid a shot. And I go back and I watch Firefly, and it's hard because I've learned a great deal since then, and I'll see something and go, I see what I was trying to do, but it didn't work. Now, I would have done that differently. And, oh, there's a mistake that I made on this episode, this episode, and this episode. I don't make that mistake anymore. I learned. Then I go, I got to stop doing that.

[B]

Yeah, Well, I don't. I don't see that. But. But I'm sure I don't tend to watch anything that I do because it's not mentally sanct.

[A]

Well, that's a great choice, because when you do, you look back and go, oh, man.

[C]

I would change things, like quit smoking and things that are just like my own personal. The way I live my life. But I liked.

[B]

When did you quit smoking?

[C]

17 years ago. It's been a while now.

[A]

Was it. So it was after Firefly.

[C]

It was after Firefly. It was after even Spamalot. I. I kind of. I wouldn't smoke. If I ever did a play, I would always put them. I back burner them because to protect my voice. And for Spamalot, I did that. But towards the end of my six months, I started smoking again. I did a rewatch of Firefly. I recommend if you haven't done it a while, Summer. I forgot so many things that I could enjoy Watching it as a show in a way that I couldn't at the time because I had so many things in my head like, oh, I meant to, I wanted to do this in this scene and I didn't achieve it. So I'm just watching it as a, just as a casual observer pretty much. And my God, there's a point in every episode where I would end up stopping it, putting it on pause and getting up and having to pace around a little bit and saying, I cannot believe this show was canceled. How good is this show? I genuinely feel it, like it's, I have to just take a break, breathe into it. Which is, I think powered a lot of the fandom.

[A]

If you've ever seen Star Trek the Next Generation, the first season of that was very low budget and you compare it to the final season of that, it was extremely well done. It was flawless. The special effects that just. The models, the shipping, the flying. I constantly think about what Firefly would have evolved into with success, with some budget behind it, with us becoming the well oiled machine that shows become when they run for four, five, six, seven, eight years. Yeah, I would have loved to see that evolution.

[B]

Well, you've had that experience a number of times now, getting to stay with a character for many years. So yeah, been such a champ in keeping shows going.

[C]

Summer. Do you think you'll ever want to come back? Like let's say once your brood is off on their own in college and maybe to play a role that is a mother or something that you could draw on your own experience, you know, whatever.

[A]

Would you, would you come back to acting?

[B]

I think I might. You know, I do miss being creative. I miss the, the thrill of, you know, occasionally there's always this high when you do hit a scene and it goes well and you really feel like you kind of lost yourself for a minute. Sometimes it doesn't happen, but then when it does, it is, it's a thrill like nothing else. And I miss that and I really miss the camaraderie, you know, when you are on a show, it's hard when you're fighting for work, that's really hard. And it was hard to fight for work when I, you know, when I have children. It felt, it just, it feels off to me. I, it's better for me to be really predictable for my kids right now. But I do miss, I miss the thrill and I miss the camaraderie probably most of all. So I, I could see that happening. I could see myself coming back. I think, you know, my girls Are becoming more independent by the day, and I'll want to take something on more, you know, when they're. When they're grown. I hope so, maybe.

[C]

Right? That's a yes.

[B]

The only other thing I could see myself doing is teaching dance. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Alan's writing something now.

[C]

Oh, I am writing something now.

[A]

It won't be ready for 20 years.

[C]

But I write slow. God, I write slow.

[B]

Do you have a process of making yourself right? Like, do you have a schedule where you just say, I am writing now.

[C]

When I'm writing, I'm writing something right now. I do better with someone. Like, partnering. Like, when we did Con man and we did season two, Season one, I wrote just over time, by myself, blah, blah, blah. I would just write and write and write, wanting it. And I was fueled. Like, the energy I had to write was whenever I had auditions and they wouldn't go well, or I get auditions for roles that I just wasn't right for, or a lot of people going, I don't see him as that. Then I come back, I'm like, I'm writing my own thing, then I'm going.

[A]

To write my own thing.

[C]

And that energy got me 10 episodes.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

But season two, we had writers, and, oh, my God, it was so much better. So right now, I write in the mornings. I write in the mornings. But James Gunn writes ten pages a day.

[B]

Whoa.

[C]

Ten pages a day. And the type of thing I'm writing right now, 10 pages, is a huge. It would take all day.

[A]

Just double space, Alan. Just double space.

[C]

All I need to do is turn off my Internet, because it's. The Internet sucks me over. I'll be like, oh, let me. Oh, you know what I should. Yeah, what is that? I need to look something up for the piece. And just real quick. And then suddenly 20 minutes are gone because.

[A]

And then you're on a deep dive on factories making cookies. Yes, I've been there.

[C]

And the red bellied thrush and how it's under threat and, you know, whatever else the Internet wants to throw at me, I'll just. Ugh. Anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. This is the portion of the show called get to know you better.

[C]

I know you and you know me. Let's get to know you better.

[A]

Summer, we've known you for some time. What is something we don't know about you?

[C]

That thing that we don't know that no one's ever asked you about, that you don't just share with anybody, but you're gonna share it with us.

[B]

Now, this is really high stakes because what can I say? That would. That would be.

[A]

It could be. It could be a petting. It could be like your feelings on ice cream versus sorbet.

[C]

Yeah. It could be. Sean's. Was his father. I mean, I don't know. Don't try to top this, because this was a big one. His father was a mortician.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

We didn't know that.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

That's a really good one.

[C]

That is a really good one. I'll give you one of mine. Here's one of mine. You know when there's cones in the street and they're set up, and if it's. If there's cones in the street and I don't see them having any purpose, I'll usually hit one.

[B]

Are you serious? I know.

[C]

I don't know. I'm not proud of this. Yeah. That is a true thing that I have never. I don't know. I just. I don't knock it over. I don't run the whole thing over, but I will run over the edge of it, and I'll make it go ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.

[B]

To see how it feels.

[C]

Wow. Teach it a little lesson.

[A]

That is the imp of the perverse. That's the little thing inside you that says, I ignore that. I ignore that. Alan says, all right.

[C]

I don't think it's a good voice.

[B]

That's exciting that, you know, that's some insight into you as a creative type.

[A]

Do you have any OCD type behaviors like, oh, my God, I have to. I have to check that the stove is off three times or that the door is locked or. No, when I fold the paper, it has to be exact.

[B]

I don't have that. My. My older daughter is kind of going through a phase where she likes things just so I'm organized and clean, but I'm not really ocd.

[A]

Do you have a pet peeve about people's hygiene? When you see someone with dirty nails.

[C]

You notice it from across the room.

[B]

You don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We've learned so many new things about you today. That there was a camel's saddle in your house and that your grandfather was in the armed forces in Libya.

[B]

He was a pilot.

[C]

He was a pilot. And the camel was on the plane?

[A]

No.

[C]

Oh, no.

[A]

The saddle was on the camel.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

I didn't ride any camels when I was a kid. No. Neither did she. You know, they had a. They. They had a lot of adventures, but no. I did go to Dubai, though. It's been a number of years now. But I wasn't able to get on the camel because I was holding the baby. I had just had a baby, but Val did. He got to ride the. Have you guys ever ridden a camel?

[A]

Oh, yes. One time my camel was disguised as an elephant, but I got rid of the camel.

[B]

Oh, it was an elephant. Because you like to do tropical.

[A]

It was a camel dressed as an elephant. We couldn't get the elephant.

[C]

Was it really?

[A]

They wouldn't. They said, no, we're not going to allow you to have an elephant. So they did a camel dressed as an elephant.

[C]

Is that. That's good. Because you shouldn't ride elephants. Elephants, they're too intelligent. Camels love it. They love. Yeah, I rode one in Egypt once.

[A]

Well, thank God for that camel saddle. That changed the course of your life.

[C]

Yes. And your toes have taken quite a beating. That's something else I learned. Because you had arthritis in them and then you had to break it just to get into acting.

[A]

That camel saddle broke your toe and said, dancing's gotta wait. I'm gonna do this other thing and I'm gonna express myself creatively in this way. And, boy, did it work out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess if you could take one thing away from this, it would be that camel saddles can have unexpected impact and unknown uses that can change the course of your destiny.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Of your entire life. Yes. That is what I'm pulling from this. We were just referencing the fact of how we didn't want it to be a Firefly podcast because we wanted to talk to other people about other things outside of Firefly. And Firefly was very short lived. So it wouldn't be a lot to talk about after a while. But we did want to reference that's how Alan and I came to be friends. Not how we met, but how we came to be friends. We met over a burrito.

[B]

Where'd you meet?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is an old story, but you haven't heard it. Alan was my burrito waiter in New York City when we were both up and coming young. He was a Juilliard student and I.

[C]

Was a Juilliard waiter.

[A]

There you go. And I was a young soap star. Joey Buchanan. I was the best Joey Buchanan ever. Just ask me.

[B]

Really?

[C]

And I served in burritos. And it wasn't until we were doing Firefly that we figured that out. Yeah. I was going home to New York while we were shooting the first season. And he said, hey, if you want to get some Mexican food, there's a great Mexican food restaurant on 71st on Columbus 71st, between 71st and 72nd. I was like, I worked there. He's like, oh, I used to go in there all the time. And then the second he said that, I went, oh, my God, I know who you are. You would come in with that girl. You came in and you were rollerblading that one day and that. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you were.

[A]

Yeah, that was. My main mode of transportation was rollerblades in New York City. Well, summertime anyway, in the 1900s.

[C]

It's what people did in the 1900s.

[A]

And then Alan comes walking into the table read. I met you at the audition, but Alan, the first time I laid eyes on him was at the table read. He came in for the table read of Firefly. I said, oh my God, that dude's a movie star. And he was wearing a suit. Do you remember that? I remember Allen used to always wear suitcases.

[C]

He always wears suits. That's right.

[A]

Alan used to wear suits to everything I did. He was Hugo Boss and he was.

[C]

All, yeah, summer, you. You kept a distance from me back in the day. I think it was probably wise. I was wild. I had that impish. What would you call it, Nathan?

[A]

Imp of the perverse.

[C]

Yeah, well, that sounds a little accurate. Well, when I'm thinking of her staying away from me, imp of the perverse. Sounds like he's in flat shirt or something. But what do you call yours? I call him. Anyway, he's my aunt. Won't see. Anyway. Yeah, I always wore suits. I wore suits a lot. I dated a lot of ladies back then. You remember all of that? I was always like, I remember. I remember you one time saying to me, I'd had. I was going out on a date and you made some comment about another one. And I remember feeling like. And it was when you said that I went, do I date a lot of women? And then realized, I guess I do. I guess I. In fact, I do. But that was a short lived time. But yes, I did. During the Firefly days that you have.

[A]

To do that to find the. The right one. You gotta. You gotta make your way through all the other ones.

[C]

Maybe not all of them, but some of them. Anyway, that was early 2000s.

[B]

We've all been lucky. Yeah, and you had a really fast car too. That was another thing. You drove that Audi.

[C]

It was my little spaceship. And I drove it fast. I drove it with impish perversity. And I drove. Yeah, I was a little wild. I was a little more wild back then.

[B]

You were wild. I was very intimidated.

[C]

I've mellowed. I've mellowed. I'm happily married. I have two dogs. They're the cutest children you could ever have.

[A]

You held your own, though, Summer. You held your own and you prospered. You really made an impression. I'll say it to this day, your scene. And I told Sean when we talked to him, you're seeing with Sean in Serenity, where it's right after he gets shot, and you are comforting him and he's trying to say what needs to happen next and he apologizes to you. That scene never fails to make me cry. Really? Brother stuff, family stuff, father, son stuff. Those things, those. They really tap into something that's meaningful to me. But what you guys did in that scene never fails to elicit a very strong emotional response in me. Ever. I can watch it anytime and I will get teary eyed and snotty nosed.

[C]

And when that scene where you slash Adam Baldwin with a knife makes me laugh every time. Every time. Never fails. Like tears come out of my eyes from the light.

[B]

You guys have really pumped me up. Thank you so much. I've been very lucky. Well, it was good riding, you know, I just had to.

[A]

You don't need us to tell you things. Listen, you go to the conventions. I see you there. We've attended conventions together. I see how much you mean to these fans. And there are people who just absolutely love what you do. And then again, there are the young ladies who just look at you and say, you have no idea what you've done. For me, I see it. And it's really beautiful to have an opportunity to do a project that truly affects people, that truly speaks to people. When I started acting, you know, I was. I'm in theater and people are clapping. You do something right, the response is immediate and visceral. It's in the room and you feel it. If you do something right or wrong, you know it right away. But in this industry, it's a slow burn. But when people do see you, they have an opportunity to say to your face, how meaningful. And I've seen it happen to you time and time again. It's really beautiful.

[B]

It's been a gift. It was so unexpected. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't. You know, you audition for things and you just don't know where it's going to lead. That's part of the thrill. And it's a moment in time. It's so different from ballet because when you're doing ballet, there's certain ballets that every company does and it's just over and over again, different dancers. But with acting, there's a moment in time. There's one role and one person who gets to play it, and it's a thrilling part of being an actor. Have y' all talked to Marina? Did you have Marina yet?

[A]

Not yet. No.

[C]

Not. Not yet.

[B]

She's really busy, I'm sure. But yeah, I was just thinking about my. The first time meeting her, too, and the first time meeting Jewel, and just how each person was so uniquely themselves and so different from each other from really different walks of life. And maybe that's another reason why people really love Firefly, too, is because it's such an unexpected group of people that come together and really belong to each other and love each other.

[A]

Yes. I love being able to walk away from that show, truly being able to say, I had a fantastic time, and I truly love all of those people. But you see people interviewed and you. Oh, yeah. I really love working with them. I can tell when they're lying.

[B]

You can?

[A]

On love, I can always tell because I've done it. But it is a privilege. It is a gift. It is an honor to be able to walk away away from a project and say, I truly love all of those people.

[B]

Yeah, we had a blast.

[A]

We really did. We shared something really, really wonderful. And it doesn't live in a bubble. I mean, everybody can go and access it at any point in time and see what we did. Oh, my God. Has it been 25 years?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Is that possible? Yeah. Yeah, it has.

[C]

No, it's 21, 22, 23 years.

[A]

It's 23 years. It was 2002, right? Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, 2000, right? It was 2002. We were shooting it for 2010.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Damn. Good God. Wow, Man, I should get my prostate checked. I'm just realizing now that seems like time for the colonoscopy.

[A]

We'll save that for after the podcast.

[B]

Does it feel the way you thought it would be to be an adult and be fully in the middle of life?

[C]

That's generous.

[A]

Middle. I think I'm past the middle. I don't know how long I plan on lasting. I am thrilled every time I get a job. I am absolutely thrilled. And I say to myself, I can't believe I'm still working and the job I have presently. I've asked around. When we did season five, I asked around, I said, could you do five more seasons? And everybody said, oh, yes, immediately. They didn't have to think about it. No one. No one did that. They said, yup.

[B]

It's awesome.

[A]

Yep. One girl said, I'll Grey's Anatomy this bitch.

[B]

So funny. When I was on Grey's Anatomy, those guys were.

[A]

I was right into the ground.

[B]

What they have is amazing and they know it, and they, you know, they appreciate it. Yeah. Getting on a show that lasts. I mean, I wanted that for so long, and I kept ending up on things that got canceled, and it's always so. It's so hard to say goodbye and. But I think it has a lot to do with you, Nathan. I mean, you said that Joss was the first person who cast you as a leading man, and then. I mean, nothing. But for 20 years. I think it has to do with your leadership, too, and the. Like you were saying about how you treat people. Because I've been on other sets and, you know, it's not that. It's not that I've seen people be unkind. It's just maybe it is like a kind of taking it for granted kind of thing.

[C]

I've seen people be unkind.

[B]

You have?

[A]

I've seen it.

[C]

It can. Oh, yes. It can absolutely happen. Well, that's that entitlement thing that we were talking about.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Where you just get. It comes from fear and, like, it's the wrong way to handle the situation where you're like, I feel insecure, so I'm going to hold tighter and I'm going to try to edge people out or whatever, throw my weight around.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love that idea. I love the thought that. But the fact is, I want to believe it, that I have something to do with it. The fact is, audiences are fickle. There's no guarantee that the next show I do is going to be a success. There's no guarantee I'll get another show. I am lucky. And I'm gonna ride it for as long as I can, and I'm going to enjoy the ride while it rains. I'll make hay, and then I'll try to look back on this with fond memories. I think, as we all want to.

[C]

I'm somewhat unemployed right now, and I feel like your talk has made me more insecure, Nathan. Like, it's never. It's over, it's. Jesus Christ. I'm never gonna work again.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

Alan. Alan. Okay, take a deep breath. Alan, you okay?

[C]

I've burned more than one bridge, Nathan.

[A]

You. You build your bridges out of gasoline soaked timber, my friend.

[C]

It just seemed like the right material to use.

[A]

All right, listen, Summer, we have taken up enough of your time. This has been absolutely fantastic and wonderful. It's so lovely to see you as always. Oh my gosh, we adore you so much. We talk about you fondly all the time. We just did a little podcast with Mark Addy, who was talking about when he first met Alan that they used to give him a rough time. And the British call it taking the piss. When you take the piss out of somebody and you give them a hard time, but it's meant as affection. It is meant as a sign of love and trust. And Canadians, we do that a lot, too. When I moved to New York, I had to adjust myself. I had to pull it back. But I'm sure you remember all the time if anything went wrong on Firefly, first thing we would say is summer, because you were flawless.

[C]

Yeah, you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yes. The times you blew it in some way. Forgot a line or something I could count on one hand. So if anything went wrong, we would call out your name to take the piss out of you because we adored you so much and still do. You may be living in a forest, Summer, but you always live a little bit in our hearts.

[B]

So lucky that I got to be there with you guys.

[C]

Sweet Jesus. I swear I wasn't gonna cry.

[A]

Alan, don't do it.

[C]

You're gonna get me started. We love you, Summer.

[A]

I love you, Summer.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[D]

Hello, and thank you for listening. This is Nathan Fillion. Now is the part where I read aloud the credits for our show in my best telephone voice. So put on some headphones, lay back and relax because this is our time.

[A]

If you haven't yet, you can always.

[D]

Head over to our Patreon to get bonus content, longer episodes, and a chance to get your hands on some incredible crap. If you love the show, please leave us a review and feel free to tell all your friends. If you didn't love the show, now is the time for quiet contemplation. Once We Were Spacemen is a collision 33 production. Some of the names I will mention are my favorite people in the world, and some of them have room for improvement. You know who you are. If you hear your name being read, please stand up. This show is produced by Siobhan Homan, Michelle Chapman and Josh Lebbey of Collision 33. We are edited, mixed and produced by Resonate Recordings with special thanks to Courtney Blomquist and Adam Townsell. Our theme music is done by Carlos Sosa and Joshua Moore. Artwork by the incredible and incomparable Louis Jensen. But gonna tell you right now, I think he faked his accent. Until next.