Once We Were Robot #4 | Episode 33

Summary

Podcast Summary: Once We Were Spacemen

Episode: Once We Were Robot #4 | Episode 33

Hosts: Nathan Fillion (B), Alan Tudyk (A)
Date: June 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a characteristically playful, behind-the-scenes look at the realities and oddities of life as an actor, focusing on Alan Tudyk’s ongoing experience playing "Gary" the robot in the upcoming Superman sequel. Nathan Fillion and Tudyk reflect on career highlights and lowlights, challenges with guest stars, the etiquette of being a good collaborator, and how artists handle mistakes and ego on set. Interwoven are stories from their careers, affectionate roasts, and ideas for the podcast’s future, all delivered in their signature witty, candid style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Alan Tudyk’s Superman 2 Experience

• Alan is currently filming in Atlanta, playing Gary (formerly Robot Number Four) in "Superman 2: Super Duper, The Rise of Gary".
  • [01:46]
  • “At the end of the last movie... when I showed up at work, I had Gary on my trailer door, which... filled me with joy, which is definitely not always the case.” (A, 02:09)
• Costume & Motion Capture:
  • Alan describes his unflattering mocap suit and the set culture of body acceptance around motion/mocap roles.
  • [03:46]
  • “It's snug… You gotta wear the right undergarments or else people can, you know, see all your bits.” (A, 03:46)
• Improv and Actor’s Conviction:
  • Motion capture offers freedom—improv is easier since the best takes can be composited.
  • “I improv more as a motion capture actor... As long as their side... follows the script... I pretty much say anything.” (A, 05:37)
  • Conviction is key: “It was my conviction that started the whole thing... advocate for yourself...” (A, 08:48 & 12:04)

2. On-Set Dynamics & Collaborations

• Naming the Robot "Gary":
  • Originated from Alan’s desire not to be credited as "Robot No.4" and was embraced by fellow cast and crew, especially David Corenswet (Superman).
  • Memorable exchange:
    • A: “Maybe one day you’ll give me a name.”
    • B: “Four is a name.”
    • A: “So is Gary.” (08:38)
• Working with Directors and Improv:
  • Contrast between improv-friendly environments (Rogue One, Resident Alien) and more structured directors (like James Gunn on Superman 2).

3. Navigating Ego and Professionalism in Acting

• The Spectrum of Actor Behavior:
  • The importance of being a team player, knowing when to advocate for yourself, but also understanding the hierarchy and collective goals of a set.
  • [14:58] B: “The danger with people who have this tighter aura... They can eat up a lot of time if they aren’t considering the whole scene.”
  • Alan recounts working with actors who excessively improvise without serving the story, extending shoots (“two weeks over because... this guy is improvising,” 16:22).
• Memorable Set Stories – Handling Difficult Guest Stars:
  • Alan recalls Adam Baldwin swiftly shutting down a complaining guest on Firefly:
    • “[Adam] said, just shut him up and said, you know what’s not great? Somebody comes and guests on a show and just complains about our show to our faces and shut the guy down.” (A, 17:22)
  • Nathan describes his limited but memorable confrontations and the importance of making guests feel included (21:12).

4. The Guest Star Perspective

• Being a Guest vs. a Series Regular:
  • Nathan highlights the difference between feeling welcome (positive sets like Desperate Housewives) and unwelcome “just keep your head down and survive” environments.
• Alan's Worst and Best Guest Experiences:
  • Worst: Early stage career derailed by a diva actress who literally tried to cut his part from the script—who reappeared years later on Frasier with similar behavior, only to be put in her place by Kelsey Grammer.
    • [33:13] “She gets up and Kelsey Grammer stands up... ‘Actually, what you would do in this situation is you would sit there and you’d listen because you don’t know what to do. So you’re gonna sit there, not knowing what to do, just like the scene says.’” (A, 33:14)
    • [34:12] “She repeated it like it was her idea. I would just sit here and not know what to do. It was a gift from God.” (A, 34:12)
  • Best: Positive, playful experience on Frasier with main cast generosity and genuine inclusion.
  • Nathan shares a rich story about feeling welcomed and included as a guest on Desperate Housewives, complete with party game escapades and camaraderie on and off-camera ([41:49]).

5. Dealing with Mistakes & Perceptions on Set

• Embracing Failure:
  • Speedy acknowledgment and humor dissolve mistakes faster than denial or wallowing.
    • [48:27] “Let’s talk about being wrong... the fastest way... is to embrace it.” (B, 48:27)
    • [49:00] “If you say ‘oh I thought this would be a good idea, it turns out it’s terrible’... the faster you embrace it, the faster everyone can move on.” (B, 49:00)
• Supporting Scene Partners:
  • Practical tip: Nathan sometimes tapes co-stars’ lines to his own forehead as a cue to help them through difficult takes ([51:26]).

6. Tales From Drama School & Industry Observations

• Actors as Misfits:
  • “A lot of actors are crazy... There’s a certain thing, you know, when you’re coming up, you’re young and people are trying to figure out where they go... if your oddity is something you can turn into a job.” (A, 24:00 approx.)
• Industry Enablers:
  • Success can lead actors to lose touch with social reality (“stuff that would get you slapped at a Wendy’s” [25:27]).

7. Podcast Merchandise and Community

• Joking product pitches:
  • Life-sized cardboard cutouts of Nathan and Alan that compliment passersby.
  • Magnet "paper dolls" featuring their various roles, with removable wardrobe ([38:40]).
• Naming the Patreon Community:
  • "Space Cadets" suggested for supporters—other variants explored in their typical riffing manner ([39:50]).

8. Upcoming Podcast Plans

• Future Episode Tease:
  • Interviewing their behind-the-scenes team for a “warts and all” episode about the show’s creative and production process ([57:19]).

9. Quirky Personal Confessions

• Toe Oddities:
  • Alan: 10 toes, 12 toenails—double nails on each pinky toe ([60:00])
  • Nathan: Big toes that stick up cartoonishly, wearing out shoes "like a periscope" ([64:53])
• Fan mail weirdness:
  • Both share odd fan interactions and requests regarding their feet ([66:42]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On advocacy as an actor:
  • “You have to advocate for yourself, which is not always easy on set.” (A, 12:04)
• On actor egos:
  • “I didn’t want my IMDb to say Alan Tudyk, Superman, robot number four, because it sounds like a really crappy role.” (A, 07:57)
• Adam Baldwin's shutdown:
  • “Somebody comes and guests on a show and just complains about our show to our faces...” (A, 17:22)
• On guest star etiquette:
  • “It’s like being a guest in someone’s home. Being a guest on a TV show, that is not an easy ordeal.” (B, 21:44)
• Kelsey Grammer’s power move:
  • [33:14] “What you would do in this situation is you would sit there and you’d listen because you don’t know what to do. So you’re gonna sit there, not knowing what to do, just like the scene says.” (A, 33:14)
• On building the right community:
  • “Our Patreon people. They should be called our space cadets.” (A, 39:50)
• On admitting being wrong:
  • [49:00] “The faster you embrace it, the faster everyone can move on. Because when you are wrong, it’s apparent...” (B, 49:00)
• On personal oddities:
  • “I have 10 toes, you probably knew that. I have 12 toenails. I'm a freak, Nathan.” (A, 60:01)
  • “My big toe would exit [the shoe] like a periscope coming up.” (B, 64:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:46 | Alan discusses filming Superman 2 and playing "Gary" | | 03:46 | The realities of motion capture suits and body acceptance | | 07:34 | The importance of conviction and self-advocacy | | 08:38 | The improv that named “Gary” | | 14:58 | Discerning the types of actor “concern” on set | | 17:22 | Adam Baldwin’s legendary guest star shutdown | | 21:44 | Nathan on being a guest star and inclusion on set | | 33:13 | Kelsey Grammer handles a diva guest star on Frasier | | 41:49 | Nathan’s positive guest experience on Desperate Housewives | | 48:27 | Embracing mistakes on set | | 51:26 | Nathan’s trick: taping lines to his forehead to help partners | | 57:19 | Teasing the upcoming “meet the team” episode | | 60:01 | Alan’s twelve toenails confession | | 64:53 | Nathan’s upright big toes and shoe-wearing issues |

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Final Thoughts

This episode exemplifies the casual intimacy and professional insight at the heart of “Once We Were Spacemen.” With frank stories, self-mockery, and a gift for comedic sidebars, Alan Tudyk and Nathan Fillion offer aspiring performers and fans alike a window into the real workings—and real personalities—behind iconic screen robots, spacemen, and beyond. Listeners come away with both laughs and genuine wisdom about collaboration, humility, and finding joy (and comedy) in the quirks of the business and in themselves.

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For extras, Patreon members (soon to be “Space Cadets”) can expect more humiliating confessions, industry stories, and perhaps, if the merchandise jokes pan out, a talking cardboard Alan Tudyk in their foyer.

Transcript

[A]

I played two very small roles in the play. And the first one was this great scene where she comes in and I played a guy in a. More In a morgue. And she's there to identify her sister. And I pull out a drawer and we have a conversation. And she's like, she looks so different, but she's been years since I've seen her. I'm like, yeah. You know, people change. People change. I'm like a young kid with headphones on, chewing gum. Like, yeah, yeah. And then at a certain point, I go, oh, well, wait a minute. And I close the drawer and I open up a different drawer. And she's like, oh, my God. I'm sorry. I just give you a little time here at that. Once we were spacemen spacemen, spacemen. I tend to play weird people, usually aliens and robots and things that don't have romance.

[B]

I once didn't get a job where they were looking for a Nathan Fillion type. Once We Were spacemen Once We Were

[A]

Spacemen Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Once We Were Spacemen. And by once, I mean we still are. Because that once time is the beginning of a time that still continues and will continue until our death, when we will become spirits in space. So we will still be spacemen with.

[B]

Oh, my God, do I send an emergency crew? What happened there at the end?

[A]

So I'm holding my mic because I can't figure out how to make it work. I had to disassemble it and bring it here to Hotlanta, as they say, where I'm working.

[B]

You're working in Atlanta right now. What is the project you're working on, Alan?

[A]

Well, it's a project called Superman 2. Super Duper, I think, is the name. I can't. I'm not supposed to give that out.

[B]

Is that official?

[A]

That's the. That's what's on all of my call sheets. Superman 2 Super duper. The rise of Gary, which is my character, the robot.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Named Gary at the end of the last movie, which was really great. And I was very happy to see that make it into the movie. It definitely wasn't a sure thing that it would make it in the movie. And I'm happy that when I showed up at work, I had Gary on my trailer door, which already, like, just stepping on set, I had. I was filled with joy, which is definitely not always the case. That's just a given. You walk up, you see your character name. But my character was named Gary. Now, as opposed to Robot Number four. Yeah. So I'm already, I'm so just stepping up to do a costume fitting. I started out happy.

[B]

When you do your costume fitting, are they, are they, are they dressing you up any. In anything robot like?

[A]

No, it's the usual mocap suit that you see in many behind the scenes situations or outtakes and whatnot. Over the years we've been, I feel like audiences have been educated on the basics of that technology. And it's that it, it's actually a suit that ILM came up with. It's that gray suit with numbers on it and it, you can't, like, it doesn't make sense to look at it like, oh yeah, I see how that connects to the human frame reference wise. But it's a, it's a digital.

[B]

Those suits, those suits. Not, not very modest. Those suits. They, they, they really, they kind of. It's got like a little, like a little like a, like the luge snowsuits they wear. It's little. Is it kind of like a tight, like a snug little.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta, yeah, it's, it's snug. And you've got to wear the right undergarments or else people can, you know, see all, all your bits. You got to be careful.

[B]

Now when you're not working, do you, do you put on a robe or something so you're not wearing your, your, your suit at like the craft service table while people are training?

[A]

No, you don't care. Nobody cares because you're surrounded by him. So I'm, I'm Gary. I'm Robot4SL. Gary. And Superman has other robots, so there's a bunch of other people out there and everybody has their own body type. And you know, we're all representing our own body type out there. And it's. Even Superman himself has a very immodest silhouette. You know, David Corn sweat is there, so, you know, you don't want to. It's like the one person at the orgy who's like, don't look at me. You know, you all, everybody resents that person.

[B]

How is the how, how is the. How's the attitude on set? How's the, how's the. What's the energy? Like, are people excited to be back? Like the first one, I was a big success. People really enjoyed that first movie.

[A]

Yeah, I've. Everybody's excited. It's early in the shoot, so it hasn't had a chance. You know, I think towards the end of production where you've had trials and tribulations, your hopes have been Dashed. And you're certain that this is the last project you ever work on as that can. Those, those moments can stack up and you can. Where you're not quite sure of what you've done and what you haven't done. That sounds awful. Let me say that again.

[B]

Does that still happen? Does that still happen to you though? Does it still happen where you get like nerves where you think, oh my God, I'm. What am I doing? This is the. I have no, no clue what's going on. Why did they hire me? Do you still get like an insecure flash at all?

[A]

Not with motion capture roles I don't. These roles tend to be easier because you're not on camera, you're referencing your character, but they erase you at the end of the day and they can take your best take and they can take your best take and put it with the best take of all the people around you. Which is why I improv more as a motion capture actor. Because as long as their side, as long as the actors I'm working with, their side is good and, and follows the script and the line that I feed them prompts them to say their line. I can I pretty much say anything. I, I don't with James Gunn because he's not the kind of director who's like just freewheel it. But like when I did K2. So in Rogue One, is that a name drop or was that me? I'm blowing smoke up my own ass. I feel like that should have its own. That was up my own ass.

[B]

I did. So this, this is a fact of your life. I don't think that that's self serving. This is, this is, this is the facts. This is how you, Alan, you go to work. This is nothing you can do about it. You're not really all right at all by any means. But my question, here's my question, okay? Someone out there right now is listening to this and going, oh my God. Alan Tudyk is like a very good actor and he's like on top of it and he knows his business and he knows what to do when he hits the set. Like he's got years and years of experience, study and skill. And you're, when you talk about a joke, you're. You go into humor theory like this. You are in psychology and science behind it. Alan, what is something you can kind of bottle and just regurgitate so that someone like let's say me can steal it. All your hard work of years of experience, schooling and just condensed into like two sound bites. That I can go. I can use that, and then off I go and make a joint career.

[A]

I don't know, man. I think it's conviction, you know, like, if you have. If you feel it like I felt, let's. Let's use the Superman. I wanted Gary or I didn't want Gary. I wanted a name.

[B]

Alan wanted a name for his character in the movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then the character wanted a name for himself. Is that what you're saying? That what's. Where it came from?

[A]

It was. Yeah.

[B]

Grounded in reality.

[A]

Right. So I think it came from an ego part. It came from my ego that I didn't want my IMDb to say Alan Tudyk, Superman, robot number four, because it sounds like a really crappy role. So I, I wanted for my own ego reasons to have a name. And I thought Robot Number four was just a terrible name for the lead robot because he, he did seem to be in charge and he had. He had a quirky personality. And I guess I told David Corn Sweat, play Superman, and he was on board with it because he fed me something. He was right there on top of it. I've seen it in that. They posted that out.

[B]

I've seen this outtake. Yes.

[A]

Maybe one day you'll give me a name.

[B]

Four is a name.

[A]

So is Gary.

[B]

I just made the movie.

[A]

But it was my conviction that that started the whole thing. I've had that in other. Definitely when I did Resident Alien. Alien. That was up my own ass. Okay. Yeah. So like on Resident Alien, I would. When I read the script, I'd be like, there's a joke there. There's a joke there. There's a joke there I'd like to do. And I could go to the creator of the show and say, here's the joke I'm proposing. Here's the joke I'm proposing. And he would usually just let me, because we had years of experience together. He would just let me write in my jokes and even change respect. If there are any other Resident Alien actors listening right now, he'd let me change their lines or add jokes to their scenes. It's just what comes to your head when you see. It's like when you read it, you see it. You're like, oh, there's a joke there, or we're not paying off. You do this as well. You, you, you did this in Superman. There was a joke that didn't make it into the movie, but everybody laughed on set. What was that?

[B]

That's right. And it was also a scene with David Corn Sweat. So here's where I'd like to toot David's horn like you were.

[A]

Oh, you can't. You have to get permission to toot his horn. You have to say, do you mind if I toot your horn? Then there's. Because if you're too. You can't.

[B]

And for a very effective horn, you want it to be made of kryptonite. David is very concerned about making sure the scenes are great. He has that in him. He wants it to be of quality all the time, which is really great. But he's always open. He does a lot of hard work, but again, he's always open to what makes us better, what makes us better. But we were. We. We were at. At dinner, we were about how excited we were for a scene after the Kaiju fight. And the original line was. After he says, you know, I was hoping we could do something a little more humane with this fella. I. My line was, oh, come on, man. Don't be such a. And he wanted to say, hey, guy, and kind of grab my arm and say, come on, there's kids around. And I pulled my arm away from him and said. I said, don't be. And we thought that was pretty funny. Yeah, we thought that was pretty funny at dinner. And he said, we have to try that. We have to do that on the day. And then on the day, I'd forgotten all about it. And he remembered and stopped James before James pursued. You know, went on to the next scene. He goes, no, no, no. This is the thing we wanted to try. And so, yeah, we wound up doing it. And there was a big kind of an issue as to whether or not you could call Superman a pussy. And that didn't work out.

[A]

So because of that.

[B]

But the joke made it to the cutting room floor. But there is.

[A]

It was because of the. Because of the. The. Because of the language that it. It got lost. Not because of the.

[B]

It.

[A]

It worked. It. That. That joke worked because it.

[B]

Oh, the bit work. They just. They were very concerned about the setup for the joke was.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

They thought it was a little much for the kids to be on Superman. That which you. You have to be understanding about that kind of thing, I totally get.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you, David, two people concerned about what makes this great, what grounds it in reality. Some of the advice that I was. I was asking for you was, you know, what's the sound bite that you can kind of squish this down to? And what I'm hearing from you, Alan, is what do you want you be selfish. Get to set. I missed the.

[A]

Yeah, that is. That is admit. Although, you know, you have. I think what I was trying to say was you have to advocate for yourself, which is not always easy on set. Also, when you're in a role, in a lesser role, and it depends on who your cast is. When you're working with David Cornswed as the lead, he's very generous as a scene partner. I've worked with other actors who are not that way. When you get to set with a director, if you're an actor out there and you get to a scene, if you haven't been able to do a lot of table work, which is my favorite way to do it, where you actually all go through the script together and read through it and like, deal with your issues and questions before you get to set, that's the best way. But if you get to set and you haven't done. Had the opportunity to do that work, then all of those issues come up and so they get dealt with by your hierarchy in the. In the cast. So the. The lead, let's say Russell Crowe has his issues. His are going to be dealt with. And then this actor, then this actor, then this actor. And if you're down, you know, you're. You're lucky if you get your concerns or your line or your changes in. But let's say I still haven't answered it, have I? Let's.

[B]

Here's something. Here's something I'm noticing. And tell me if you think that

[A]

I'm frazzled, sort of in a weird. Like, I drank three coffees this morning. Oh, my goodness, the coffee's great.

[B]

You're a two coffee guy.

[A]

I know. And right now you're looking at three coffee. Allen is not. Is. It's not very clear coffee.

[B]

And that was. You come out of the coffee shop, you need a push door because you're holding extra coffee for you, one for Carissa. Yeah. And now you're saying you drank all three. All three. So first of all, that's too many coffees.

[A]

Plus a sugar snack, which was delicious. Yes.

[B]

That sounded like Flula or one of our former guests.

[A]

Sounds like me.

[B]

I wanted to say that, you know, those characters could be related. Your character and then Flula Borg. I feel like down the line, share some ancestry.

[A]

Somebody tried to cast us. Yeah.

[B]

When you're working with someone, it's almost like an aura of concern. Imagine an aura of concern around an actor. And you can have an actor who comes to set and says, I'm very concerned. That what I do is good. And there's a. There's a very kind of a tight aura of concern as to. Around that person. Then there are other actors I've worked with. And I'll say, you fall into this category. I'll say David Coret, because we're talking about him, falls into this category where the aura of concern is much wider. It's right. Everything that is within his view, what, anything he can see, it's his aura of concern of how is this going to go? Stretches far wider. And he is one of those actors who says, how do we make this great for everybody?

[A]

Absolutely. The danger with people who have this tighter aura where they have their ideas and they come in and they've got their. Let's say they have an idea for funny jokes that aren't in the script that they want to do and they just force them on the scene. You can eat up a lot of time. Those actors can eat up a lot of time if they aren't considering the whole scene, the whole whole movie. Like a movie is always when you finish shooting, it's way too long and you've got to cut it. So there's. You start cutting the things that don't further the story. Don't help what everybody's here to do. Tell this story. Some people come in and just tell their own. Their own character story. I did a movie once, it will go unnamed, but I, I was. It went two weeks longer. I, I wanted the movie to be done by the end of. Talked about this.

[B]

Yeah, you've talked about this.

[A]

This one person kept going, I've got an idea. And then. And the director was very accommodating. And they'd start and I'd be like, that's going nowhere. I know I've.

[B]

I.

[A]

Honestly, some of them, I'd be like, I had that thought, but I crossed it off because it doesn't go anywhere. That's an easy joke, but it doesn't help anything here. We have to get to the next scene and you're sending us in a completely different direction. So, you know, think of, think of the overall story. I guess, if, if, if anyone is wondering if anyone tuned in today to go, how do I do it? That's how.

[B]

That's interesting because you're talking about the responsibility of the actor to make sure you keep it on point here. Like what? Somebody's going to move the story forward. And at what point are you serving the story and what point are you serving yourself? We have spoken about this and I love this also, too, there's a responsibility. Two weeks over, because this guy is improvising. That director really should have kept that train on the track.

[A]

He was enjoying the process, you know, I think.

[B]

Yeah, but two weeks over. That's. Let's, let's, let's, let's tighten that process. Another thing. Now, this leads me to a question. Let's talk about experiences with guest stars, guest actors, someone who is like, on,

[A]

like on a TV show.

[B]

We, you and I have shared an experience where we're on a program and this is. It's your house. And now guests are coming. Let's talk about that experience. The guest star that comes in, there's a way of being a welcome guest who's really good and stuff. And then let's talk about some of the kind of experiences where you go, oh, my goodness, this is going to be an ordeal.

[A]

Yeah. I remember when we were on Firefly, there was one guy that was complaining when we were on. We were in the desert. We were way out in that up north on one of the Disney. Anyway, we were out. Out on the planet, and there was a guy there, and he was complaining something about the weather or the something. And Adam Baldwin said, just shut him up and said, you know what's not great? Somebody comes and guests on a show and just complains about our show to our faces and shut the guy down. He's like, well, no, no, I just. I just met. He's like, stop it. Be quiet. Stop it. Like, just. It was a immediate. Like, it was like, where does Jane end and where does begin? Because he just. He was ruthless. And that was the first time I thought about it. Like, oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's a guy, Adam Baldwin. I mean, there's a lot of love in that man. I. You know, this. He. He loves to work. He loves to be. He's almost boyish in his energy of attacking scenes. And he's like, he's got a process and he works hard. I can't imagine him turning that switch on me and looking at me going, you need to shut up. That would be so horrifying and intimidating and awful.

[A]

Are we saying that he's scary?

[B]

Sure, a little bit.

[A]

He was. He was cast in the right role. Like all people on that show. Everybody was cast in the right role. And that's what made it part of it, made it so good.

[B]

I just. I can't imagine being on the receiving end of that. First of all, just the humiliation. Just like, oh, my God, I really stepped over it here. And Then second put someone put it right in your face. And Adam. Yeah, if Adam's had enough, you've gone too far.

[A]

Yeah. That guy, it shut him down and then his character was killed soon after, so his character was fully shut down.

[B]

That's the first time you thought about the guest star being a issue.

[A]

Yeah, because I had never been on a TV show. I had done one episode of Frasier and I had a blast.

[B]

Have you ever had to have an awkward conversation with somebody where you told them, hey, you got to get with the program here?

[A]

No. Everybody that came on, the only time that I've ever been in a position that I would have been the guy to have to say it would have been Resident Alien. But even then, Chris Sheridan, who, who ran the show, he was on set every day. He was rarely not on set, so he would have been the one to say it. And. Yeah, so I never, I never had to do that. But I don't think we had anybody that was out of line in any way.

[B]

You've never had that experience where you've had to say, hey, put a lid on this.

[A]

Thank God. No, I've, I've always been like, my God, you're the greatest. It's always been luckily, like, thank you so much for, for coming, you know, spending your time here with us.

[B]

Good. I'm so happy that you've not yet.

[A]

It sounds like experience. It sounds like you may have had to have it.

[B]

I've had. I've had a couple of awkward conversations, Alan, where I have. I've had to say, like, hey, man, where would you rather be right now?

[A]

Here or at the bottom of an unmarked grave?

[B]

Every fiber of your being is telling me that you don't want to be here. And on top of that, you're looking for allies, like, oh, I can't believe this. Can you? Like I say, I love it here. Right. And you know, these people are the people I work with every day. If you have an issue, come to me. It's unpleasant and it makes me resentful to the person.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it's, you know, Yeah, I, I agree. It's. I hope you don't have to do it more. Although you are in the longest one of the longer running shows ever on television, and that comes off of another long running show. So you've had a lot of, you've, you've met a lot of guest stars, so you're going to have a lot more exposure to different personality types.

[B]

Thank you for the perspective, because eight years on Castle and coming on nine now. Thank you very much. On Rookie. Yeah, I've seen a lot of guest stars and for the sheer number of people that I've worked with, just the sheer number, it's almost not worth mentioning. The times that I've had awkward conversations, that's how. A few times, yes. So by and large, people are well behaved. It's like being a guest in someone's home. Being a guest on a TV show, that is not an easy ordeal. It's.

[A]

No.

[B]

You are at the mercy of everyone in that cast. And I've been get. I've guessed it on shows. How about this one? Let's talk about being a guest on someone's show. I have guested on shows where they are not happy. They, as a crew or cast, they're not happy. They don't want to be there. And all I can think about is get me out of here, let me do my job and just go. And that's not my best work. I will tell you right now. Now, you go to a place and they say, hey, welcome. Come on, we're all going to go out for a smoke. Come with us. You don't smoke well, but you, you chat, right? Why don't you stay upwind and then we'll all just chat. But you hang out with us. We'll smokers over here and we'll just talk at a distance. You know, just making sure I was included. Come join us for lunch. Right, right, right. Just making sure, Making sure you're comfortable, making sure you're a part of it. Making sure you feel invested and safe. And I learned a lot from those experiences. I, I try to make sure that people have that experience when they come to a show that I'm on. I want their best work.

[A]

Do you want to bump cigarettes or you want them to bump your.

[B]

Some smoke? There's no cigarettes. You know, there's a tax now. They will charge the crap out of you. Right. Sucking on cancer.

[A]

Yeah, I don't do it anymore. Only 19 years. Yeah, I'm fine to quit. It's good.

[B]

Good job. We'll see.

[A]

We'll see if I'm out of the woods.

[B]

You know, they told my grandmother she was drinking and smoking until she was very old. And they said, well, it hasn't killed you yet. It's not gonna. So knock yourself out. They kind of told her that. But she did kick the cigarettes.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, I guess of the two, that's the one I'd put down if I had a choice.

[B]

She always had Bailey's in Her coffee, though. Every morning she put Bailey's in her coffee. And then if she stepped away from her coffee, her dog would jump up on her chair and drink her coffee. So he'd be a drunk, B wired. That dog was a mess.

[A]

You'd have to give him cigarettes to calm him down. Wow.

[B]

It's true. She quit. But that dog could not. He could not.

[A]

You know, I think it's also. I think it's something that. That is. That could be said. And I don't think I love actors. Listen, I love actors. Whenever I meet somebody, you know, that's just like, hi, nice to meet you. I just want to say, hi, I'm an actor. I'm always like, whoa, okay, cool. Let's talk. You know, I love to. I like meeting actors, but a lot of actors are crazy. I think that's something I learned in drama school, that there's a certain thing, you know, when you're coming up, you're young and. And people are trying to figure out where they go. What their strengths are as people, as humans that keep. Some people who have huge imaginations or they're odd, they're different. They get. Go over there to the drama department. Let's see if that. If your oddity is something you can turn into a job. And sometimes people are inspired or inspiring as actors, but only in a. In a narrow band of their own quirkiness. You know what I mean? And so you can end up with people in acting jobs, whether it's drama school or on a. Or on a show in a guest role that are good at the acting part, but the social skills are a mess, or they can only do their best with certain conditions which aren't conducive to a professional job. So there's an opera, you know, you'll meet people who aren't well, often. And it's tricky.

[B]

Then there's a phenomenon of the. Of the entertainment industry in itself, where at a certain point, first of all, you're just an actor. Just shut up and just do your thing. That's when you're starting. And then there's a point where it kind of turns a little bit, and then people won't tell you, no, there's a right. There's a level at which you get away with more. And if you are. If you're not grounded, if you are a little bit quirky.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Problematic. And all of a sudden you're kind of removing some guardrails of what would be considered normal reality society, like something that would get you slapped at A Wendy's right people are doing at work.

[A]

Wendy's a slapper though that. I'm sorry, I don't mean to call her that, but that's just my experience. Anyway. Yes.

[B]

She's as cold as a frosty.

[A]

You cannot get it through a straw. She's as thick as a Frosty Stupid is what I'm saying. I just called Wendy a stupid. I realized this and I want to apologize. I want to say right now, whatever we have that. Sorry. Apologies. I went too far.

[B]

Wendy, you love those friends.

[A]

I, I certainly do. The, the. The. The salt is smaller.

[B]

What was the best that you to. To your recollections something you think about upon fondly as the. One of the best experiences you had as a guest actor on someone else's show. And it's okay if you say with me on the Rookie.

[A]

That was. Was really fun working with you. That was great. It was like. Well, it wasn't like work. I have a. Oh, this is. I can't. Can I tell this story? I think I can. Enough time to come back and. Okay, look. So when I was first starting out, I mean and I mean first starting out, I was still at school in New York. I did this. This New York stage and film is what it was called now. This was a. This was a thing. It's not as big as it was back then, but in the summertime up in Poughkeepsie, New York, they would do new plays, all new work. In the first part of the summer they would do readings where it's just a bunch of actors get together. They read a play for. For an audience and then they were staged readings. That was like the next step. Then there was workshops of plays where you actually spent a kinks working out some kinks, the writers there, rewriting, finding stuff within it. And then you put on a staged reading of that production. And then there were full productions where there was sets, there were costumes, there was all that kind of stuff.

[B]

It sounds amazing.

[A]

It was all new directors who are just. Just popping up, just starting to really make a name for themselves in New York. Actors who you're like, oh, that's Davis Tritharn is an actor that I got to work with. If you don't know him, look them up. He. And you'll go, oh my God, that's David Strathearn. And that's where I. That's where I did a workshop of Bunny. Bunny, the play that ended up being the first thing I did off Broadway and started my career.

[B]

That was that your Big break, Alan. Yeah.

[A]

It would have been the summer between my second and third year at school, because I stayed up there. I just went to go do a reading with David Strathearn, and I did the reading and I got done. They said, you know what? We really want you to do this workshop with Alan Zweibel, and it's called Bunny Bunny, and you're going to play a bunch of different roles. So I did that. And then while that was happening, somebody fell out of a main production. A young actor fell out, and they said, would you stay on and do that? And I had luckily been saving my money from my burrito job that I was able just to go up because I didn't pay anything and I did three shows. So I stayed up the whole summer and I met all these people and met directors, and it's how I got an agent. A director helped me get an agent after that.

[B]

Was that a guest role scenario, though? Wasn't everybody fresh like I'm talking about? You go to.

[A]

Everybody was fresh. Yes, yes. Wait, it's. This is my long. My long story.

[B]

Oh, I see. You're setting it up. You're setting up.

[A]

So I'm setting it up. So I was there. I was at New York Stage and Film, and I was in a production. John Slattery, who you might know from Mad Men and many other things, he was in it. And David Strathairan was in this one as well, because he lives up there or something, so he was available. And then this unnamed actress was there. I played two roles, two very small roles in the play. And the first one was this great scene where she comes in and I played a guy in a.

[B]

More.

[A]

In a morgue. And she's there to identify her sister. And I pull out a drawer and we have a conversation, and she's like, she looks so different, but she's been years since I've seen her. I'm like, yeah. You know, people change. People change. I'm like a young kid with headphones on, chewing gum. Like, yeah, yeah. And then at a certain point, I go, oh, wait a minute. And I close the drawer and I open up a different drawer. And she's like, oh, my God. I'm sure I just give you a little time. So it's like a little comedy bit right at the top of the play that introduces. That's the action that sets off the whole play that this. His. Her sister has died. And so we're in rehearsal, and this actress, who was really good in stage and had, like, one won Things big, big awards. Goes, was. It was a terror. She was a terror. She was a terror. And it's why her career didn't go where it should have gone. She was like, listen, I wouldn't say any of this, any of these lines with his character. I wouldn't say any of this. So she was already making the mistake of saying, I, myself, my personal person, would not say these lines, although the writer wrote those lines. So it would suggest that you would say those things. And since it isn't actually you, it's a character, why don't you try?

[B]

Yeah, you're in luck. It's not you, it's your character.

[A]

So she comes in with that attitude. I wouldn't say any of this. So what we're going to do holds up her finger, is we're going to cut. And she starts just sort of wagging her finger in the air. Cut, cut, cut, cut. Flips the page. Cut, cut, cut. Okay, and then I'll pick up right here with the phone call. And the director goes, that was Alan's role. And I'm looking at my script like, she just cut me from the play. And she goes, yeah, that's. This is going to make it better. And he's like, no, no, no, no, we can't do that. Back it up, back it up. We're going to do this. Let's read through it. And she starts screaming at him, and he's just trying to defend himself. She ends up screaming, why do you make me yell at you? It was such.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And it was like that almost every day about something. It was so difficult. And I questioned whether or not I was gonna be able to be a professional actor, because that was my first experience of doing something professional. And I was like, if this is

[B]

what it's like, oh, my God, that's horrifying.

[A]

Cut to. Years later, I'm on Frasier as a guest star. I just got off doing Knight's Tale. My hair's wildly red because I had just gotten home. I touched down, and they were like, you want to do a thing on Frasier? I was like, yeah, yeah, I love that show.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

This actress. I show up and there she is. She's on it. Like, oh, my God, she's terrified.

[B]

She.

[A]

She haunts my dreams. And I'm. We're rehearsing, and this is why. This is the greatest. This is why this was the greatest guest spot. It was great to work with everybody. They gave me leeway to have fun. It was a great group of people. Everybody was like, the main cast was really fun with one another. They played jokes on each other, they were laughing. They were really a family and were very generous to me in letting me in. So that was one side of the greatness. The other part of it was I was doing a scene with Kelsey Grammer in the living room set that everybody knows from Frasier with the one chair and all of that. And there was a restaurant scene taking place right next door. So on a. On a sitcom set, the sets are just right there on the same stage. You just shift the cameras over, right? And it cuts from our scene to that scene. We're doing a run through. Camera run through. So that we did one half of our scene. Then we cut to the restaurant scene where this person is. And she starts the same crap that she was doing on that stage at New York Stage and film with me where she's like, I wouldn't say this, I wouldn't do this, I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't do this. And it just starts.

[B]

Flum the holes.

[A]

Everything grinds to a halt.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

David Hyde Pierce is one of the nicest men on the planet. And he wouldn't. He's like, I don't know. Yeah, I guess. Then let's try to accommodate you this way. And everybody's trying to accommodate her. And. And the director was trying to accommodate her. And she's like, you know what? My character wouldn't even be here. My character would just get up and leave. So I'm just gonna do that. I'm just gonna get up and leave. Because I certainly wouldn't listen to these people talk about me this way. I would just leave. And she gets up and Kelsey Grammer stands up. We were both on the couch. She stands up and goes, actually, with that big voice, what you would do in this situation is you would sit there and you'd listen because you don't know what to do. So you're gonna sit there not knowing what to do, just like the scene says. And she goes, I think that what I would do is sit here and not know what to do. It was a gift from God. I couldn't believe I watched.

[B]

She just repeated what Kelsey said.

[A]

She repeated it like it was her idea. I would just sit here and not know what to do. It's. I do. And she sat down and finished the scene. Yes. So she just repeated exactly what he said. And that was the gift of that guest star for me. It. It was greater than any paycheck that I got. It was greater than you know, it was great. My mom got to see me on a show she liked. And that red hair gets another opportunity to be preserved on film.

[B]

I. I can't get over just the justice. Just that. Just that feeling of yes.

[A]

Yeah. And he just said, no, actually, what do you want? He didn't go over there. He just stood up where he. He was. It was almost like a. Some kind of play where the people speak out and not to one another. He spoke straight out. She was to the left. He just stood up, spoke out and sat back down and we moved on. Oh, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. And then I ended up working with David Hyde, Pierce Slater on Spamalot and John Mulaney, who played the. The father. I ended up working with him on stage as well.

[B]

John Mahoney, so.

[A]

And also with. I'm not gonna.

[B]

I saw that play.

[A]

Damn it.

[B]

I saw that play.

[A]

Wait, which. Which play did you see when he.

[B]

When he played your father? I saw. I went to. I went to New York. I saw that play.

[A]

Prelude to a Kiss.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you remember?

[B]

I don't know. Well, you don't remember because I was in the audience. But for you, that was very different experience for me. You did a great job. You were up there on stage, and then afterwards there was like a Q A thing that we could. We got to watch. Yeah. Really fun.

[A]

Yeah, it was fun. It was good. It was at the Roundabout. So now I'm back in New York. Not currently, but I will be back in New York, hopefully.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I worked with Jane Leaves on a thing called An Evening Without Monty Python. I worked with John Mulaney, John Mahoney, and I worked with David Hyde Pierce for Spamalot. So I. It's a weird. I have a weird Frasier connection.

[B]

Yeah. We are going to have the Lovely and talented Mr. Jim Rash as a guest coming up on one of our podcasts. And he and I met doing a pilot many, many years ago just after Firefly called Alligator Point. That didn't end up going, but Kelsey Grammer was the executive producer of that particular little. It was a sitcom.

[A]

No. What?

[B]

Yeah, he was around. And. And do you have a copy of it?

[A]

You must do.

[B]

I have a. I don't think I do. I. You know what I had for ages was like life size cutouts of me as a race car driver. I had that from that show. I had a bunch of Valvoline.

[A]

I'm surprised I haven't seen those.

[B]

Sponsored. I'm surprised I didn't keep them.

[A]

Yeah, they're not in your house.

[B]

Now this is a little side note here. We have merchandise for this little podcast of ours. I have a pitch for another piece of merchandise I think we should do. Imagine this, okay. A cardboard cutout, life size of you, one version of you, one version of me. It's got a little motion sensor in it and a little, little chip and a speaker and a battery. You can charge it up a little bit, but when you walk past it, it senses you're walking past and it pays you a compliment.

[A]

This seems, what do you think? Seems like something that. Yeah, this would be a Christmas gift for 2020, 2026. Christmas. Who wouldn't want one of these?

[B]

Imagine walking down the hallway, passing by a life size cutout of Nathan Fillion in your house. And as you walk by he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You look great.

[A]

And then do I say something or is it like.

[B]

Well, you can get either version. So you would have to decide what your version says. So like someone could get the Nathan Fillion version and someone could get the Alan Tudyk version. So, so let's say I'm walking down my hallway and there's, you know, right by the master bath, there's Alan Tudyk's version. I walk past and what does he say?

[A]

I hate to see you go, but I love to watch you leave. Maybe that's, maybe that's wrong. That's not, that feels like that is.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

I've crossed the line. It works tooting some. I'm tooting somebody's horn. You know what? In 2026 you get permission to toot.

[B]

That's just a little, little, little merchandise plug idea suggestion. Okay. That I have. I also had another idea for if there were magnets of you and I that you stick on your like a flat magnet that you stick on your fridge. And then you can dress us up with clothes that go over top of the magnet. You know, you can just overlay it.

[A]

Oh, like there's like ah, like dolls, like paper dolls.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like little cutout, like a cutout thing and you put. But you just slap it on, it's magnetic. And you can dress up your, your Allen and your Nathan in their different roles for different things or for like,

[A]

oh, how naked do they get? I think that's the key. Like in any paper doll situation, I think the first thing you do is how naked can you get it?

[B]

Well yours, if you took your, all your clothes off, underneath you would have a motion capture suit. And then for me.

[A]

Oh, it's true.

[B]

For me, it would be, like, dressed as a cop, and then you would take off the cop clothes, and there'd be, like, some, like, Underoos of, like, Green Lantern. And if you took those off, it'd be like another cop suit under

[A]

you. Just the far. The closer to the core, the more cop you are. Well, can I. I want to make a recommendation. This isn't for merch, but this is for the Patreon people. They need a name. Like, I don't want to call them our Patreon people. They should be called our space cadets.

[B]

Oh, I like that. I was thinking of, like, something firefly centric. But I like. I like this space centric more. It's more in the theme of the show.

[A]

Our space folk, our space trash. I don't know. We gotta. Maybe we do. We vote. And we can, like, send out a thing to all of all the people.

[B]

We call our Patreons. Space cadets and non Patreons. We can call them astronauts, but not to spell N O T S. I like it.

[A]

Or can it be N A U G H, T?

[B]

Astronaut astronauti I have. So I wanted to. Before we go on, we were talking about guest star experiences. I had an ex. There was one I had that was kind of just negative, and I just wanted to. Like I said, you just want to keep your head down and just kind of get out of there. No one's. No one's really having a lot of fun. And. And it was early on in my career, and I just didn't know what to do about it. I just. I don't know. I mean, I feel like if I guessed it on someone's show now and. And it wasn't any fun. I. I'd make my own fun. I'd. I'd have my own time. I'd say, all right, I'm. I'm. I'm going at this alone. I'm only here for a week or so, whatever. But one of the more positive experiences I had, I guested for a year, approximately a season, on Desperate Housewives.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I had so much fun on that show. I had so many little adventures. I had worked with Dana Delaney, who played my wife on that show. She and I were guesting for the same season. I'd worked with her once before on a show called Pasadena, so we were already friends. That was one of those experiences where someone takes really good care of you as you're a guest. You're a stranger in a strange land. Dana was the one who made sure I was feeling super duper comfortable in Pasadena. By the time we got to Desperate Housewives, oh, my God, we were thick as thieves. So.

[A]

Okay, can I just real quick, because I don't. I think we missed it. You're talking about Dana Delaney.

[B]

Name drop. That is an impressive IMDb I'm going to tell you right now. So Doug Savant was on that program. He was on a little show you and I were on called Firefly. He played the alliance fella who interrogated us. That's one of my favorite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bits that you do in the outtakes.

[A]

He dropped like a stone.

[B]

When. When we're all being interrogated and your wife won't say anything, it's like, so you're not going to say anything. And then you. You're just a. You can't stop talking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Interrogation. Took control of the interrogation. You're just. You're just going from one to the next. And that's the Patricia Cassanti first year down there, if you know what I'm talking about. That. I'll never forget that stuff. I laugh. I've stolen that bit more than. I've adjusted it, but stolen it more than I can tell you. So we had Doug Savant. We had. There was another fellow on that show that was a guest on two guys who grown a pizza place. So he and I had a relationship some beforehand. So. So there's some people that I knew and. And they were very cool and very caring. I met Kyle McLaughlin on that show, and he was exceedingly kind. Eva Longoria. There was. We did a scene where there was a party. It was a party scene. There was a party game. They were playing charades at the party. In real life, when they were between setups, we were next door in a living room set actually playing party games. I brought a little game called Catchphrase where you have, like this Frisbee with a word on it, and it's ticking like a time bomb, and you got to get people to guess the word before you pass it on. And. And let me tell you.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

Very competitive. She's very competitive. And we played this. We played this game.

[A]

I love Firefly, people.

[B]

We were actually playing this game when one of the names for celebrities came up, and it was Laurence Fishburne. And they just pointed at Laurence Fishburne because he was there.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That was.

[A]

That was my house, and that was my Venice. We were in Venice. That was great.

[B]

That was. Okay. There we go. So him. Lawrence Fishburne. Got it. And then you move on. Yeah. So we were playing. We were playing that catchphrase next door. People were screaming and laughing and having a good time. It was a party game next to the set where we actually filming the party game. I had a friend of mine visit from Edmonton from a buddy of mine from high school who was a huge fan of Twin Peaks, huge fan of dune. And Kyle McLaughlin sat with us for a good hour and a half. You know, all told, just given him the skinny on anything he wanted to. And he's one of those encyclopedia guys about producers and directors and he knows everything was happening at the time. And he had so many insightful questions for. For Kyle, who was so incredible to us and just. And Kyle, I mean, he's another fellow I remained friends with over the years. That was probably one of my most glorious guest star experiences. I had such a lovely time.

[A]

It was a nice time, man. It was a nice time period in life. That was what that was. Right? You did waitress right in there.

[B]

You were.

[A]

You were. You were hitting. You're hitting some good stuff. You were working. You're working.

[B]

Had nothing but potential. Alan, what happened?

[A]

What happened? You just had to become a. You became too famous.

[B]

My character would never. I would never say this line. My character would never do this.

[A]

Too much success.

[B]

Yeah, I. Oh, my God. I was once on a set. We were working all day, right at the end of the day, and one of the other cast members comes in and this was. We were all guests. It was like kind of like a one off episode. So we're all guests. So it wasn't anybody's house in particular. But I remember this one actor came in and said, well, my character would never say this line from here. He'd say it from up there. And I said, well, tell your character that there's no cameras up there, because we'd been there all freaking day. And we were just. We were there all day and it was like, this is the last scene. We're just gonna do this and go home. Everybody's tired. And he comes in and goes, everybody stop. And the whole thing grinds to a halt. My character would never say it from here. He'd say it from 20ft over there. Like, 20ft. Like, that's. That's the shaking my head. I'm gonna tell you right now, Alan, that guy's career did not explode. And.

[A]

No, go forward and implode, but not explode. Yeah, it's. It's, it's a. It's a tough job. And you. There, there, there's. I feel like there's A lot of people scamming you on the, on the way to, to breaking in. There's a lot of. You have to deal with a lot of BS and a lot of shysters and all of that. And you get to a place where you're actually working with people who are doing the work and you forget to turn off your. You feel like you're still a victim. You have to, you know, fight for every thing. Chill. Be grateful now, now just be grateful. You don't have to. You don't have to distrust everyone around you and everything that people say is a way of trying to screw you over.

[B]

Alan, when you watch someone in, in a work environment shooting themselves in the foot, just, just doing themselves disservice. When you're watching them just. And you're just shaking your head going, what, what's the plan? Because how do you see this shaken up with you on top? When you see someone doing that, do you think in failure they look back and go, I could have played that a little differently maybe, Maybe this is on me? Do you think they reflect and say, what's my part in this?

[A]

I have no idea. I've moved on to a new job and I don't care. I don't know, man. I try not to. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I guess you just watch. Maybe you. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I feel I. I've seen people struggle with their own demons, you know, like that they are aware that they are inappropriate, but they can't help themselves, you know, that they need. They need a therapist or some kind of some outside help that will help them understand their emotions better and control their own emotions. But that's what some people need. And I'm not above that. I need my own therapist. But yeah, you and the. I'm sorry, you got your hand up.

[B]

Yeah, I often thought.

[A]

Sorry, not you. Not. I'm sorry, not you.

[B]

Right, sorry, the other guy. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

Oh, I put his hand down. Yeah, go on.

[B]

Oh, then I'll go.

[A]

Okay, you in the front if you're ready. Time for one more question.

[B]

Let's talk about being wrong. And when you're wrong, I have found the fastest way to get through it. And beyond it. Blame someone else is to embrace it.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

No, no, I like yours. Let's go with that one. Point the finger outward. The faster you embrace it, the faster everyone can move on. Because when you are wrong, it's apparent you're going to be wrong.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And if you were to say, oh, I thought this would be a good idea. It turns out it's terrible. They all can't be gold. Guys, let's move on. Let's not harp on this. As soon as you say, oh, my God, I'm so terribly wrong. Whose idea was that? That was a terrible idea. Whose idea was this? This was my idea. Never mind. Everybody, let's forgive and forget.

[A]

That's a good way to do it.

[B]

I do it constantly. Embracing being wrong makes it so small. But there are so many people who are wrong and can't. There's. That there. There's just no way. Admitting being wrong is just. It's too intense.

[A]

But then there's also the, oh, God, I screwed up. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to do. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And then you can beat yourself up for a while. That one is another one that drags it on and everybody's uncomfortable. Like, let's just move on. At least in. In. In filming or making something, you don't have time for all that. You just have to go up. Call that was on me moving on. It's not. It's. That's not as important as all that. We. The most important thing is getting the thing. Getting the.

[B]

That is so entirely true. When I'm working with people often sometimes, you know, someone's getting a little nervous or just for whatever reason they can't hold on to a line, or they keep making a mistake on a line, you keep going back and they start getting into their own head. And so I'm so sorry. My God, you guys, this is too bad. And I go, I always say, hey, first of all, don't worry about it. We're going to cut around it. You'll never see the mistake on tv. So this is all going to end up perfectly. Second, if you make a really big deal out of not knowing your lines, all these people are going to expect that that's how people are supposed to act when they don't know their lines. And that's not how I act. So they're going to have to have expectations of me when I forget my line.

[A]

Chill, chill, please. Yeah, I have.

[B]

Here's a little trick Alan I've done more than once. I started this on Firefly. One scene with Adam Baldwin, you know, super long week, super long day, late at night. He was having trouble with this one line. And I've done this before, and I've done it a couple times since. You tear that line out of the script, you know, your little sides you get because you have a little mini version of your scripts. You tear that line. I take a piece of tape and I glue it right between my eyes. I stick it right there on my face so that where the camera's behind me, whoever's looking at me is reading their line right from between my eyes.

[A]

That's generous.

[B]

That's not generous. The only time I've done it, I've done it on Rookie a few times. I've done it on Castle. It's a long day, and someone's just having a hard time. I get it here. Just tear it out and stick it to my face.

[A]

If I did that, I would get a zit where I put the tape and then. But I would.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's the kind of sacrifice I would do for someone. Mark Addy, who we. Who we? Who? Friend of the pod. A fellow spaceman. He did a. He did around the world 180 days, something like that, with Jackie Chan. And Jackie Chan, his first language is not English, as most people know. He talked about having lines phonetically written, like out in cue cards. Maybe I'm telling things out of school, but whatever. Mark, you don't mind. Mark's not gonna listen to this. Nobody tell Mark. Nobody tell Jackie. He had, like, cue cards. But that's. That's also. Mark was like, look, just hand them to me. I'll do it. Because Mark's a really big team player. Truly, truly, truly. One of the biggest team players I've ever known. I've never seen an actor grip like him. Gripping. Like we need to. Anyway, he's just. He has his. He's talking about somebody who's got that. That loose shroud idea that you were talking about, like, carrying, like, a loose garment. Anyway, he was holding his cue cards for him so Jackie Chan could say his lines.

[B]

You would hope that if you're doing a project where even the language is. Is a challenge for you, that you would be working with someone as accommodating as Mark.

[A]

Nathan, I have a song that I want to. I want to. I need to. Because it's. This is. This is just us. This is.

[B]

What's Alan listening to, what you listen to.

[A]

And this is going to go on my Spotify for those. For the space cadets that can get. So I think the space cadets will already know this song. I'll just tell you just a little bit about this song. It is a song from Ozo Motley, great band, Ozomatli. It is kind of a. It is a Song that is on its face kind of funny. It's called Gay Vatos in Love. And but the truth of this song is it's a Hispanic Latin American song writing team and they sing a song about these two guys who are in love. And the Latin culture is very much, oh, you know, the language has masculine words and feminine words and there's a lot of macho going on down south. And I don't mean in your pants, although there as well. They wrote this song that they mean it like, this is a song for the guys. Hey, these two guys are in love. They're gay vatos in love. And hey, vato. You know, it's just kind of, it's kind of has like a hey, buddy. Like, hey, brother. But it's, hey, gave autos in love and they mean it. And they, they caught some from their fans, you know, Come on, what are you doing? We're all macho here. We don't need this. I'm like, screw you. There's nothing wrong with being gay. And this is a song about two gay vatos in love. And I, I got, I got that from the songwriter personally because he's friends with Carlos Sosa, who wrote our, our theme music. Our theme song. Thank you. Yeah, so I, I, I, I put that on the album. Raul Pacheco is his name is the guy who wrote it and he is one of the coolest musicians, man. They're just a different kind of cool. They're nerds. They're music nerds that are cool. It's, it's, it's like the cool. You know how nerds can be cool? They're that, but they're, they're used to being in front of large groups of people with adulation that just infuses them with this different kind of cultural importance. Anyway, it's, it's a, it's a weird kind of cool, but they're down to earth nerds. At least people like Raul are.

[B]

I wonder if there was a shift for Carlos. Like he was like one of the, the nerdy kids in band turned to like the ultra cool head of the horn section for many a band's composer.

[A]

Yeah, but I don't know because if

[B]

I made a list of like, there's some really cool dudes that I know. Carlos Sosa is on that list. He's cool dude.

[A]

Yeah, man. So Carlos Sosa groove line horns. You can follow him on Instagram. You'll see what he looks like. He's just like, he kind of looks like a mob boss or Something.

[B]

Yeah, like, you want him on your team in a street fight?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. But he's a musician, and if he gets punched in the face, it'll ruin his career. Like, if they knock out his tooth, then he's screwed. So, you know, not really a fighter that way. He's in the lover camp pretty solidly. But I remember being out to dinner with him one time and, like, the owner came over and was, like, giving us free stuff. All because of Carlos. Yeah, because he just seemed to own the place by sitting in the place. That's just Carlos. I don't know. I think it has to do with being on stage and being like that. The energy you're being given by audiences, by live audiences, and living inside the music. I mean, music is a powerful force, man.

[B]

Like performance. Yeah, You.

[A]

You.

[B]

Yeah. He's the star of the show. That's the thing you. When you. You are featured for your talents. I mean, people can look and go, wow, that's. I really admire people who do things I cannot do. And the music is one of them.

[A]

Balance a checkbook.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's one of them.

[B]

Remember checkbooks? I have a pitch.

[A]

Clean up after their dinner. I love those guys. You know, those are all the ones. People who can comb their hair. I love those guys. Anyway. Yes. What? Brush their teeth.

[B]

My pitch is.

[A]

Wash their legs. Yes. What?

[B]

Wash. Yeah, Watch the legs. My pitch is. Let's do an episode where we. Well, we'll split it up into quick segments, but we got to interview the people that are behind this show. We'll bring in Carlos Sosa. We'll bring in Siobhan Homan. We'll talk to Josh Levy. We can talk to Michelle Chapman. We can talk to Louis Jensen. We can talk to some of the people that we mention in the credits after the show.

[A]

Do you don't think that's going to be boring as hell? What am I saying?

[B]

I mean, I don't know what you're planning.

[A]

Can I just. I mean, I have a feeling like, I'm gonna get the worst.

[B]

Like, they're gonna cut. My voice is now gonna start to break up. Screw Alan. He thinks we're boring.

[A]

No, I'm just trying to.

[B]

We can't just talk. Well, we have to talk about other things than the podcast that you're already listening to. We're gonna talk about that.

[A]

Okay, Got it.

[B]

Sorry. Please put my voice back.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

[B]

Well, I think. I think everybody is interested when you just. You gotta dig a little bit. But this will give People out there, an understanding of who. Who is it that's responsible for. I mean, here it might seem to the world it's you and I here, but there's a whole list we're gonna have to talk about at the end of every episode.

[A]

Right. We need to get and dig into the personal that. Those awkward, uncomfortable moments that these people.

[B]

These are people we have personal relationships with. We can talk about that for a moment. We get to go to a little bit about their. Their journey and then where they are right now and. And how they feel about this particular program.

[A]

We can talk warts and all. All of it. Yeah.

[B]

This is our 33rd episode.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

We've done 33 of these things, man. Collision 33 is the production company behind us. This is our 33rd episode. I'm just saying.

[A]

Wow. And we just collided right into it without even. Because we were texting while podcasting. Bam. Nathan, do you want to go and say the things that we have that I don't know about you and, you

[B]

know, let's get to know you better?

[A]

Okay. Yes. Let's do that. I know you and you know me.

[B]

Let's get to know you better. Start. You go.

[A]

I go. Mine's pretty simple. I have. I have a few. I've been collecting these now.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I got nothing. I got nothing.

[A]

You got nothing. You know what?

[B]

I was prepared for something else today. I honestly thought Jim Rash's episode was today. I didn't know it was just gonna be you and me. I've been having.

[A]

Still gonna be that. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Well, let's go see what happens.

[A]

I have 10 toes. You probably knew that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You just assumed it, but you were right. I have 12 toenails. I'm a freak, Nathan. I'm a freak, but it's not a good enough freak that I could, like, get a career in a circus.

[B]

Are we saying that if your socks were to be removed.

[A]

I don't recommend it, but yes.

[B]

One of the toes would have an extra nail. Or is it divided amongst five toes? There's one fifth of a nail, completing one total nail. The.

[A]

The piggy that goes wee, wee, wee all the way home on both feet has a toenail, and then on top of that toenail is growing another toenail. I have two toenails on each little piggy toe.

[B]

It's a double layered nail.

[A]

It's a double. It's. It's double glazing. It's what you're going to want to keep out the cold on your windows. It keeps out the cold on my

[B]

little toe when the nail comes out

[A]

freakish and ugly to look at. Yes. What.

[B]

When you. When you're trimming, do you need an extra strong. Do you have to clip twice or do you once all the way through? Both

[A]

does require a special. You got to get down to the second one because it's. It's growing over and it's. It's a little further down usually, but you gotta. It's a thickness and you gotta push down. It's not a very big toe. Neither one of them are big toenails. It's not the littlest dots. Like, sometimes you see those people who just have, like a weird little dot of a toenail, but I have to give it a good hefty squeeze on the clippers to give it the clack.

[B]

When you go for a pedicure, does the lady ever say,

[A]

I don't get pedicures?

[B]

When did you discover. When did you. When did you go, oh, my God, wait a minute.

[A]

When I was a kid and I was clipping my toenails, and I was like, look at this to my mom, like, am I normal? And she said, no, no, you're not. And this is the least of it.

[B]

You're adopted.

[A]

That would have been more.

[B]

We're putting you up for adoption now that we've learned about your toe is what.

[A]

Yeah, you freak. And they tried to put me in a circus. They're like, no, come back when he's got a sixth toe. We need 12 toes, not 12 toenails. This isn't good enough.

[B]

Shoving a pair of socks at you, saying, never take these off. You will shame our family in our name. It's two dick, not two toenail. Thank you. Thank you, Alan.

[A]

12 toenails. Nice to meet you. Dozen nails.

[B]

That is bizarre and odd, and I was not expecting that. Is there an evolutionary advantage to having a double toenail? Pinky toenail?

[A]

It puts more holes in my socks. It does it. It like. It like. It. It grows out. Like, one of them snags easier. I think it's the top one. It'll. It'll comes. It's. It's like growing that direction. It's just one of the. It's just one of the freakish things about me that I've just had to

[B]

learn to live with.

[A]

But at least I'll have, like, 19 nipples or something. You know, people with those supernumerary nipples all over their bodies, you know, they're like, look at this nipples. Is it a mole? Is it a Nipple. So that is mine.

[B]

And.

[A]

And okay. And it's crazy, but are you saying you don't have one?

[B]

I know. Well, now, now that you shared that it's not, I thought it might share my own toe affliction.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Do you remember Mad magazine? The artist Sergio Aragones, I think his name was.

[A]

While Sergio Aragones was an artist with Mad magazine, the artist you are thinking

[B]

of is Don Martin.

[A]

I'm going to say yes. Nope.

[B]

He had the weird course I do kind of cartoony characters with long jaws. Their jaw was.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, ye.

[B]

And their hands were always kind of their pinkies up like doing like a spider man web slinging thing. Their pinkies were always up and their big toes were always sticking straight up in the air.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That, that's right. Is my affliction. My big toes are like kind of like double jointed. They kind of, they kind of point up in a way that the very first thing to wear out on a pair of shoes, you know, when you're a kid and you wear your sneakers until. So they fall off.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The very first part of my sneakers to wear out would be right where the tip of my big toe rubs against the top of the shoe. Remember mesh shoes that were so popular because of Miami Vice? Remember Miami Vice? You'd wear a white. Oh, yeah, right. Pastel T shirt underneath. And you'd wear mesh shoes.

[A]

Still wear it. Still rock. It still rock.

[B]

There we go. Yeah, those mesh shoes, which I found very comfortable. We wore them constantly. The first part to wear off was right at the big toe. My big toe would exit that. Like a periscope coming up.

[A]

So your, your, your piggy went to market. Straight up. It was going north to market. This little piggy went to market up over there.

[B]

Yeah. How does, how does it go? What's the first piggy do? No, the last goes to market.

[A]

We.

[B]

We first. Okay. So this little pig goes to market. My market piggy is like.

[A]

Which I think in, in your, in your head, at least in your kid's head. I think it's important to point out the little piggy went to market. I always thought of him going to market to go shopping, but that little piggy was going to get slaughtered. So your piggy is going to get slaughtered. Yeah, because he's going to market, gonna get sold and gonna become bacon.

[B]

Oh, I just realized that. How dark that is.

[A]

That's pretty dark. So your piggy is about to get slaughtered. It's almost like, God, he created your foot. Praise him. And then he came up with a ball opener and went and popped right up. Yeah. Straight up. To. To praise be. Up. Straight up.

[B]

Like when I was like, taking me out of the oven, like the. The. When it was still soft, he kind of nudged against something and knocked the toe straight up and went, oh, it'll be all right. And just kept going.

[A]

He probably said first. That's.

[B]

That's. But that is something, like in my. In my psyche, it's always like a. Things like, I can't let that toenail get too long because it'll Right through the top of my shoe.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It'll claw its way to freedom. And I always think of that Mad magazine characters with their fingers up and their toes up. I always think of them when I'm looking at that toe.

[A]

So we're both freaks, buddy.

[B]

You will not find an only fans account for this. These feet.

[A]

My. I have a foot. Somebody sent it to me some.

[B]

Like.

[A]

There have been pictures of my feet taken on shows.

[B]

Has anyone ever requested a picture of your feet? Have you ever had that fan letter

[A]

kind of a picture besides Carissa? No,

[B]

that has happened to me. That has happened to me. Yeah. A young woman wrote to me on social media saying, can I have a picture of your feet? And I did not respond. And the next thing was. It's just your feet. Apparently. It's not. It's not. It is not to you. Just my feet. I had a. Icky about that.

[A]

I was doing a play on. Yeah, that's icky. There's something. It's nice, though, that people write letters. You know, it's. It's nice that that's. That's still going on. How was rependmanship? I was doing a play on off Broadway where I was naked and playing a gay character. I was playing the first gay man, Adam, and an Adam and Steve play of a Paul Rudnick called Most Fabulous Story. And I got a postcard where a guy asked me to get together and bear ass. I was like, bare ass? Is that a thing? Is that how it works? We both just. What is slot A into slot A? I don't get it. Anyway, I guess that would be slot B. But Slot B for but. But bear our asses.

[B]

You and I once talked about how when you joke about something in print, the joke doesn't come across right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I was once asked in a print article, what's something that people would be surprised to know about you? And I said, I'm like five foot nothing. I stand on a box for the show. And this was my first show. Like the soap opera. And I started getting letters from people saying, oh, my God, I'm so inspired by you, because I too, am short. And I just. I felt pretty bad about that one. Come on, stand on a box for the whole show. Come on. How do I walk around? He tie boxes to my feet. Clip, clop, clip, clop. That's the inspiration not happening.

[A]

That. That's why I'm inspired.

[B]

I think we just came to the end of this particular episode. Fantastic job once again, Alan, it's so lovely to see you. I say this, this mission's been accomplished. As always, Alan, a pleasure.

[A]

Thank you for listening to Once We Were Spaceman. If you haven't yet, head over to our Patreon to get bonus content, longer episodes, and the ch. Chance to take home some incredible crap. The most amazing crap. The kind that does not smell. And if you love this show, please leave us a review and tell your friends. Once We Were Spaceman is a collision 33 production. Whatever the hell that is. The show is produced by Michelle Chapman, Siobhan Holman, and Josh Levy of Collision 33. The that is again. I'm sick of it. Production services are done by Rabbit Grin Productions. Why is the rabbit grinning? I don't like it. Our theme music is from the minds of Carlos Sosa and Joshua Moore and the playing of Fernie and also Rallo. And the artwork is created by Louis Jensen. Until next time,

[B]

Astronau.