Ep 683 - The Princess Diaries, by Meg Cabot

Summary

Overdue Podcast Episode 683: "The Princess Diaries" by Meg Cabot

Release Date: December 30, 2024

Hosts: Andrew and Craig | Provided by Headgum

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Introduction

In Episode 683 of Overdue, hosts Andrew and Craig delve into Meg Cabot's beloved novel, The Princess Diaries. The episode offers an in-depth exploration of the book, contrasting it with its popular film adaptation, and provides listeners with rich insights into the characters, plot, and underlying themes.

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Author Background

Craig begins by sharing Meg Cabot's journey as an author. Born in 1967 in Indiana, Cabot’s early interest in writing is evident as she penned Star Wars fanfiction during her pre-teen years. Despite initial rejections from over 30 publishing houses, Cabot's persistence paid off with the publication of The Princess Diaries in 2000 by HarperCollins. By the time the movie adaptation was greenlit, Cabot had already started working on several sequels, establishing a robust Princess Diaries series that spans over two decades.

Notable Quote:

Craig [04:26]: "Meg sent her manuscript to 30 or 40 publishing houses, all of whom said, 'No, that's classic. This is my first book. I don't know if it's going to make it story.'"

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Publication and Movie Adaptation

The rapid adaptation of The Princess Diaries from book to film is a focal point of the discussion. Craig explains how Disney, eager to capitalize on the novel's potential, secured the movie rights even before the book was officially published. This swift transition led to a major change in the narrative—specifically, the exclusion of Mia's father to accommodate Julie Andrews' casting as Mia's grandmother.

Notable Quote:

Andrew [04:26]: "She had not had hits. She was a not. I wouldn't say struggling, but she was not."

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Book vs. Movie Differences

A significant portion of the episode contrasts the novel with its film counterpart. While the movie centers around Mia Thermopolis' sudden transformation into a princess of the fictional European country Genovia, the book offers a more nuanced and relatable high school experience. The hosts highlight how the book delves deeper into Mia's internal struggles, friendships, and everyday teenage dilemmas, which the movie simplifies for broader appeal.

Notable Quote:

Craig [37:22]: "From Meg Cabot in an oral history from Cosmopolitan magazine... 'We want to go back to that gentler pre-pandemic, pre-9/11 era.'"

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Plot Overview

Andrew provides a comprehensive synopsis of the novel. Mia Thermopolis, a self-conscious 14-year-old in New York City, navigates the complexities of high school while grappling with her mother's new relationship with her algebra teacher. Her mundane life takes a dramatic turn when she discovers her royal lineage, forcing her to balance teenage life with the responsibilities of impending queenship.

Notable Quote:

Andrew [25:49]: "She is like, yeah, look at this kind of progressive, diverse neighborhood and upbringing that I've had. This is my life."

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Character Analysis

Mia Thermopolis: Portrayed as a relatable protagonist, Mia's diary entries capture the essence of teenage angst and the desire for normalcy amidst extraordinary circumstances.

Lily Tells-it-Like-It-Is: Mia's activist friend, Lily, embodies the spirited 90s youth with her commitment to various causes, adding depth to the social dynamics in the book.

Grandma Amelia: Unlike her benevolent portrayal in the movie, Grandma Amelia in the book is depicted as abrasive and manipulative, using her influence to thrust Mia into the spotlight.

Notable Quote:

Andrew [55:05]: "Grandma sucks on toast in this movie."

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Themes and Insights

The hosts delve into several themes present in the novel:

• Identity and Self-Acceptance: Mia's journey is one of self-discovery, balancing her everyday life with her royal heritage.

• Friendship and Social Dynamics: The evolving relationship between Mia and Lily highlights the challenges and growth within teenage friendships.

• Responsibility and Leadership: Mia grapples with the weight of her future role as Genovia's princess, pondering the implications of power and duty.

Notable Quote:

Andrew [44:46]: "The voice of the book is really interesting. But I also think it's cool how Mia gets to grow a little bit..."

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Personal Reflections by Hosts

Andrew shares his personal connection to the book, noting how Mia's diary format resonated with his own high school experiences. Craig contrasts this with his experience watching the movie, appreciating Anne Hathaway's portrayal of Mia while critiquing the film's departure from the book's depth.

Notable Quote:

Andrew [55:08]: "But yeah, Grandma sucks on toast in this movie."

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Conclusion

Episode 683 of Overdue offers a thorough and engaging examination of The Princess Diaries, celebrating Meg Cabot's storytelling while thoughtfully critiquing its cinematic adaptation. Andrew and Craig's conversation provides both fans and newcomers with a nuanced understanding of the novel's charm and its differences from the beloved film.

Notable Quote:

Craig [68:03]: "Andrew, please. That's true."

Additional Resources

For more insights and to support the podcast, listeners can visit Overduepodcast.com or follow the hosts on social media platforms like Instagram and Blue Sky. To support the show further, consider contributing via their Patreon page at patreon.com/overduepod.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

• Craig [04:26]: On initial publishing rejections.
• Andrew [04:26]: On Meg Cabot's publishing status.
• Craig [37:22]: On the era backdrop of the novel.
• Andrew [25:49]: On Mia's progressive upbringing.
• Andrew [55:05]: On Grandma Amelia's character in the movie.
• Andrew [44:46]: On the book's voice and Mia's growth.
• Andrew [55:08]: On Grandma Amelia in the movie.
• Craig [68:03]: On supporting the podcast.

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the rich discussions between Andrew and Craig, offering listeners a detailed overview of The Princess Diaries novel and its multifaceted exploration within the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Andrew]

This is a Headgum podcast.

[Craig]

While Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale, they will not shy away from spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus, these are books you should have read by now. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Overdue, a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is Craig.

[Andrew]

My name is Andrew.

[Craig]

I'm feeling chipper because think maybe I'm gonna learn something about myself that's gonna change my station.

[Andrew]

You are always complaining about your station.

[Craig]

It's really. Well, actually, I don't want anybody to notice my station, but it is a station that is kind of hard to be in sometimes.

[Andrew]

Well, but then. Okay, so imagine. So I think you're gonna be unpleasantly surprised, I think, because you, you think you don't like your station now, but then you find out a new thing that's gonna upend your station and you're gonna be like, wow, I wish that I just had my original station to worry about. Now I have all this other stuff.

[Craig]

To worry about is how it always goes. The station's always brighter on the. At the end of the track or something, as they say.

[Andrew]

That's. They say that? Yeah, they say that.

[Craig]

Welcome to our book podcast, where each week one of us reads a book and tells the other person about it. This week, Andrew, what book did you read?

[Andrew]

I read the Princess Diaries. The novel, not the movie or its screenplay or novelization.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

By Meg Cabot.

[Craig]

Meg Cabot. And I watched the Princess Diaries, the film directed by Garry Marshall, based on the novel. The manuscript of the novel by Meg Cabot. There's a cool talk about a quick turnaround.

[Andrew]

Right. Because this book comes out in 2000 and then that movie comes out in like, what, zero, one or two?

[Craig]

So the big thing with the, with the publication of this book is that it had not secured a publisher by the time Disney was interested. I see they. They started shopping the manuscript of the novel to producers in Hollywood before Harper Avon, I think, was the initial publisher of the book, signed on. And so Disney is calling. It was a. It was a studio. One of the producers is Whitney Houston. They're interested in this book and they start production. And like, the book hasn't even been published yet. So, like, it was a quick turnaround. She'd already churned out like one or two sequels by the time the movie did come out. But it is one of those interesting things where, like, they sold the movie rights before the book had even hit shelves.

[Andrew]

Had she, like, had hit. I mean, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, I guess, had Meg Cabot had not had a hit before this. Because sometimes you see that happen where you've got an author who's established and everybody's like, okay, let's. You're working on a new thing, huh? How can we get in on the rights for that? But that's not the case here.

[Craig]

No. This is apparently like Whitney Houston and her public, her producing partner, whose name was, if I can find it, Deborah Martin Chase.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Just like it was on their desk. They thought it was very good. Disney was in a place where they had had a live action success, like a live action movie for girls success with the Parent Trap. And they were like, we could do another one of those.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And they just went for it. And there's a pretty. I'll talk about one of the major changes that the film makes a little bit later. But they made a major change to the film after they cast Julie Andrews or as part of the Julie Andrews casting.

[Andrew]

I've got to imagine that I know what the change is gonna be. And it's gotta be that her character is not a monster so much anymore. Right?

[Craig]

Her character is not a monster. And there is there other characters are impacted by making space for Julie Andrews to be in the film. Gary Marshall was like courting her and Meg Cabot was on board. I have the quote for that later. But no, she had not had hits. She was a not. I wouldn't say struggling, but she was not. She said she sent this manuscript to 30 or 40 publishing houses, all of.

[Andrew]

Whom said, no, that's classic. This is my first book. I don't know if it's going to make it story.

[Craig]

Yeah, not her first book, but her breakthrough book. So she's born in nineteen nineteen sixty seven in Indiana. Both of her parents were teachers, I believe her dad was. Was teaching at Indiana University where she got her degree. She says she started one of her first writing projects as a kid, was writing Star wars fanfiction when she was 11 or 12. A lot of it about Princess Leia and I. This was from a. I think a Cosmo article she had written herself about like her career. And she said she didn't know that they were brother and sister. So I don't think that she had seen Jedi when she was writing these. Or Jedi probably hadn't even come out. And so she's like writing adventures of them having romances and like going on adventures, which is pretty cool.

[Andrew]

She write anything where little like teddy bears come and help them fight the Fascists. Is that a. Is that it? I just don't know if, you know, another mind other than George Lucas's could have come up with such a thing.

[Craig]

But her parents did caution her about writing stories with things that were already trademarked.

[Andrew]

I mean, that's fair. You know, you gotta have your own ip and, you know, you can always turn your fanfic into thinly veiled original characters, as has happened in many books that we've read, especially Star wars ones.

[Craig]

But, yeah, that is very true. She's written over 80 books. Her series include the Princess Diaries, the Mediator, which is about communing with, you know, spirits, including the main character's father. Her father passed away when she was in her twenties. It seems relevant to a lot of the work that she has since become famous for the Heather Wells novels and Avalon High, which Disney also did an adaptation of. She now lives in Key West, Florida, with her husband and cats. I believe. Her bio says she moved to New York City as a kid, you know, out of school, after Indian University, because she wanted to be an illustrator. And that wasn't going so well, and she needed a job with benefits and wound up working at NYU in residential life for 10 years. And she said that it was great because she could write in the morning while all the kids slept till noon, all the college kids were asleep, and she could get her writing done. She met her husband when she was pretty young. They eloped in the early 90s. And then after her father passes away, she begins, you know, pursuing her writing career in earnest. She writes a historical romance for adults called where the Roses Grow Wild under a pseudonym, Patricia Cabot. Other pseudonyms she's used include Jenny Carroll and maybe one or two others. I think the Jenny Carroll books were folded into her proper crediting not long after Princess Diaries took off because they were just like, listen. She's like, I don't want to manage three different websites. I need you to help me here.

[Andrew]

This is before they invented websites that help you make websites. You just.

[Craig]

That is true.

[Andrew]

Back in these days, you just sign up for Angelfire and you hope for the best.

[Craig]

That is true. So the first of these books was, as we said, published in the year 2000.

[Andrew]

Future. Remember when they used the year 2000. Yeah. To make everything sound like the future. It's funny.

[Craig]

In the year 2000. Yes. But she. The thing about this series that I like, there are like a dozen novels through 2023. We'll talk about a few of them in just a second in the UK and Australia. And New Zealand for many of them. At least through book. No, for most of them, they all have a subtitle that includes the number that the book is. So, like, okay. The Princess Diaries. Sure. Second book is called Princess in the Spotlight, but in the UK it's called the Princess Diaries. Take two. Take.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Then there's Princess in Love, AKA Third Time Lucky.

[Andrew]

Mm.

[Craig]

Or Princess in Waiting. Or Mia Goes Forth.

[Andrew]

Okay. This. I'm enjoying this so far. I'm princess. This is the sort of thing that you think Meg Cabot was like, really excited to do for the first two or three of them. And then she felt. And then I've got to imagine that you just feel trapped by this convention for the rest of the time that you're doing these.

[Craig]

Yeah. I mean, Seventh Heaven makes sense, but Sixational doesn't.

[Andrew]

Sensational isn't anything.

[Craig]

It's not really anything.

[Andrew]

Like, what could you use? Like Sexual Healing?

[Craig]

Yeah. I don't really. You're out of it. But it's. It's a funny. It's a funny thing.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And then in 2009, she writes an in universe romance novel by the main character of these books. What called Ransom My Heart. Just interesting. She says she was driven to write these novels because her mom started dating one of her teachers after her father's death. And her mom used to also joke about her real parents, a king and queen, coming to get her. So she's got this kind of like, well, my worlds are colliding and my mom's making cracks about my lineage.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I was going to ask how a small European country that doesn't exist entered into the.

[Craig]

Yeah, I don't really have anything on that, but just, you know, I think. What. In the novel, it is somewhere near Italy. Right.

[Andrew]

It's between France and Italy. Now. I always remember the movie putting it like, between Spain and Portugal.

[Craig]

They read. They reference Spain and Portugal. Oh, yes.

[Andrew]

Why? Like Portugal already feels like. Is just kind of a little like a little thing growing on Spain's back.

[Craig]

Portugal.

[Andrew]

No, I mean Portugal. I got nothing against you, Portugal. It just feels like we already got a little one crammed in next to Spain. I don't know how we have room for another one.

[Craig]

There's a scene in the movie where she dances a dance, a Genovian dance that is a mix between a waltz and a tango.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

And she calls it a wango that. But I don't neither of those. I don't think that there's much. I mean, is tango a Spanish dance or is that An Argentinian dance?

[Andrew]

I do not know. Now, I will say that in the book, Genovia does seem like it's culturally mostly French. Like the language is mostly French. Yes.

[Craig]

The tanko is Argentinian, I guess.

[Andrew]

And listen, I guess if you're going to live between France and Italy and you're going to pick a state to kind of tie your fortunes to, you probably would pick France instead of Italy, right? Okay.

[Craig]

Probably.

[Andrew]

Again, sorry, Italy. Nothing. Like, you're fine. I've been to you once. We had a great time.

[Craig]

Other books in the series include a spin off series in 2015 called from the Notebooks of a Middle School Princess, about the main character's half sister, as well as a Royal wedding book, which was. There's a Cosmo article from 2015 where she talks about reopening the series. A lot of her readers were like, hey, there's this William and Kate royal wedding thing. Wouldn't you ever write about Prince Mia, Princess Mia getting her, like, big wedding.

[Andrew]

To do, wearing a big hat?

[Craig]

Yes. So this is billed as a novel for adults. The Royal Wedding is not. Not a super sexy book, apparently.

[Andrew]

But trying to, like, age up with the audience that would have read the original ones or what.

[Craig]

Yep, yep, yep, yep. And then in 2023, she published the Quarantine Princess Diaries. Andrew.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Another novel for adults. It was published. I think she must have been publishing blog posts in the main character's voice during lockdown and then decided to turn that into a full book. Seems to be what happened sometimes.

[Andrew]

I think back to the amount of, like, the very specific kind of time there was to fill during that. And I just don't.

[Craig]

When people were, like, feeling really not allowed to go and do anything.

[Andrew]

And they were like, you were like, regularly doing bar trivia for everybody over zoom. And you had like 50 people showing up every week for months and months.

[Craig]

Yep. But no, one of the things that I thought was interesting about this book was that one of the main characters invents an intranasal vaccine for Covid. Okay, cool. Meg Cabot.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Craig]

But yeah, there's a. Okay, I'll save that bit about the change from the novel.

[Andrew]

I'm like, I'm the. The Princess Diaries books relationship with the, like, the English royal family. I don't know if you ran into anything specific about that. One of the most other.

[Craig]

Other than the William and Kate thing.

[Andrew]

Yeah. One of the very interesting artifacts of this is it's public. So Mia Thermopolis, the main character, is a like a ninth Grader in New York City in that teeny, tiny little window of American culture that was after Princess Di passed away in, like, mid to late 1997.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And before 911 happened on 9 11, 2001. Never forget. It's like that was that. That's also the time period, like, I went to. I went on my school field trip to New York in 1998. So I just feel like. I don't know, I have this very. And like, Seinfeld is ending in this. In this kind of window too. This, like, mid to late 90s, pre 911 New York is a very, like. Captures a very specific version of the city that I am, like, dimly familiar with for my own life and from pop culture that I grew up with. So, yeah, it was just weird to revisit it and have it be, like, mostly modern feeling. But also, it's not like 9 11. It hasn't happened yet.

[Craig]

Yeah. So two things. One, anybody who's listening to this, who's only seen the film, it's set in San Francisco, and it's a very San Francisco y movie. There are plot points that hinge on how high the hills are. It's pretty San Francisco y. Yeah, sure. But there is an article on Meg cabot's website from 2021 about 20 questions about the 20th anniversary of the Princess Diaries. And she's like, oh, my God, it's been 20 years. I'm just gonna read verbatim. And it gets to kind of what you were just saying. August 2001 was such a. And this is 20 years from the movie. August 2001 was such a simpler time. We were all so young and innocent. Some of you reading this were so young, you might not even have been born. We didn't have smartphones and social media didn't exist, at least as we know it today. No one had the faintest notion that a little over a month after the movie's premiere, we'd be dealing with 911 or that 20 years later we'd be facing a global pandemic. So let's go back for a moment to that gentler pre pandemic, pre 911 era. Here are some answers to the questions I've been getting lately about the Princess Diaries.

[Andrew]

Who could have guessed that there would be 911 and then there later there would be a pandemic. Also, Meg.

[Craig]

She seems like she kind of really noped out on the film production process at all. Like, she did not want to be a part of that.

[Andrew]

She just, like, sold the rights and was like, Dimly approving of the. Of the Julie Andrews stuff and then was out after that.

[Craig]

Yes. They were calling her with. With Stu about, you know, production and things like that, but she did not. She was like, I don't want to try to work on the screen. Like, stop it. Like, this is just take it and go. Because she. She. There was some article I read about where she was like, yeah, that's like, the quickest way to ruin my love for what I do is to, like, really get invested in that whole process.

[Andrew]

To, like, make me comb over it and, like, with a bunch of other people and change it in response to a million different inputs. Yeah, okay, I could see that.

[Craig]

So that's a lot of what I have, except for this one quote about a pretty major change to the novel. So I think I want to save that.

[Andrew]

Aside from the New York, San Francisco thing.

[Craig]

Aside from the New York, San Francisco thing, which I think I'm glad you don't seem to know about. So.

[Andrew]

I don't know because I haven't seen the movie in a long time. I've seen it, but it's been. I realized I would never have seen it in theaters. I think probably it would have been like an early DVD rental for us. Like, this is back when DVDs are becoming a thing and you just kind of. You just kind of get as many as you can get because it's so convenient and it looks so nice on your tv.

[Craig]

Yeah, I feel like it's a. I watched, like, scenes of it on ABC Family, but never the whole thing through. So I sat down to watch it last night and I was like, I'm. This is familiar, but I've never had this full movie experience before. It's a charming movie, but.

[Andrew]

And also, like, that hits at that interesting stage of Anne Hathaway's career where it's like, okay, Anne Hathaway is going to be a thing.

[Craig]

It's her. It's her debut feature film.

[Andrew]

And then for some reason, like, a few years later, we were like, we don't like Anne Hathaway anymore. We all. We said collectively as a culture. And then later. I think later there was like a. We were wrong about. We were wrong to toss aside Anne Hathaway.

[Craig]

There is a.

[Andrew]

It did feel like somebody was trying to make her happen in a way that maybe struck people as a little forced.

[Craig]

But she made a lot of weird choices after her Academy Award nomination for Rachel Getting Married. That felt bizarre. And then she has the Year of the Dark Knight Rises, which is not a great movie, but she's fine in it. And she wins an Oscar for Les Mis.

[Andrew]

That's the last, Nolan.

[Craig]

That's the last. It's the least of the three. But she's cool in it.

[Andrew]

I think the first one of those is kind of nothing a little bit.

[Craig]

Oh, interesting.

[Andrew]

It's not like, it's just so.

[Craig]

It's overshadowed by Comic Booky.

[Andrew]

It's so overshadowed by the second one that I think people forget that it was like, whatever.

[Craig]

Yeah. And then she has Les Mis and Dark Knight Rises. And then like, she kind of has her more modern career after that. But she was also in, what was it? The Devil Wears Prada. Big movie.

[Andrew]

Ocean's Eight. Was she one?

[Craig]

She was. She's great at Ocean's Eight.

[Andrew]

Yeah, she's good Notions eight.

[Craig]

The. I think the thing with her, and some of it is misogyny, and some of it is, like, people who don't like theater kids is they're just, like, annoyed by her and think that she tries too hard. And actually she's just, like, willing to do the work and is enthusiastic about the work, I think.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I came away. We may be worth noting that we're talking about this in the shadow of all the Blake Lively stuff where you can just, like, spend low six figures to totally ruin somebody's career in life for no reason. Yep.

[Craig]

I came away from watching the Princess Diaries going, oh, yeah, that's a movie star. Like, I totally get it. She has a, like, as a 19 or 20 year old, she has a Audrey Hepburn, like, slash, complete class clown thing going on.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. She's got movie star, like, bone structure for sure. And she's a big part of it.

[Craig]

A big thing of the movie for, like, stretches of it is just her, like, doing prat falls and being goofy and willing to make herself look like an idiot. And not every movie star is good at that. And she actually is. So that's my quick review of her performance in Princess Diary.

[Andrew]

Yeah. This is our section where we dimly recall the arc of Anne Hathaway's career and perception in the public eye.

[Craig]

We should take a quick break and then you can tell me about the book.

[Andrew]

Wonderful. Calling all over Do Dads. Now this, then this is overdue Dads all one word. And also dads who listen to Overdue. We are conducting an audience survey at Gum FM Overdue. And we want to hear from you so we can keep making content you love. You know this. We know this. There are ads on our podcast. You might be listening to one right now. Gotcha. We want to improve the experience of listening to ads, including fewer gotchas. But in order to do this, we need to know a little, a little bit more about you, our audience. The survey is a quick, easy and free way to support this podcast. It'll take you two minutes and you'll be helping us out so much by doing it. I paused for a second there because I don't want you to feel bad if it does take you more than two minutes. But the copy says two minutes.

[Craig]

It's intended to not be a long.

[Andrew]

Duration experience and it's important to note that at averages, you know, you have to have people who take it one minute. You have to have people take in three. Like it's all you know. It encompasses a wide range of possible outcomes. So go to Gum FM Overdue to fill out our audience survey. That's G u M F M O V E R D U e. Fill out our audience survey and help us serve you better.

[Craig]

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[Craig]

Good. I'm glad that you're listening.

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[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

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We do. We do know somebody. They regularly spook me a lot. So I think it really. I think it helped them out.

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[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

The novel by Meg Cabot.

[Andrew]

The novel By Meg Cabot. Not the movie that you watched?

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

The thing, the thing about this book that I, that I had a fun read of this book. This is a. Like I'm at my brother in law's house for Christmas, Everybody's hanging out. But I also sometimes need to like go off and hide and just do something by myself for a little bit. And this, this book is what I was reading in that. And so it kept me company.

[Craig]

Oh, nice.

[Andrew]

Yes. And it was, it was a fun time.

[Craig]

Okay, cool.

[Andrew]

So the thing, the thing that I like the most and like the big thing about this book is just the voice of it. Like, it is very true to, I think a diary written by.

[Craig]

It is a diary. Okay.

[Andrew]

Yes, it is a diary. It is written by a 9th grader named Mia Thermopolis who has begun keeping this diary because her mother has started dating her algebra teacher. And also algebra is a class that she's failing. And her mom and the algebra teacher only even met because they needed to meet about like him tutoring Mia after school to help her stop doing so bad in algebra.

[Craig]

Oh, dear.

[Andrew]

And so you're hitting her in a, in a, in a. Her life is in flux in a lot of ways. And that's before even the, the princess twist comes in and, and upends things further. So as far as she knows, here at the beginning of this book, the first entry is dated Tuesday, September 23rd. So we are pretty early into her ninth grade year.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

But she, you know, her, her mom is dating her algebra teacher. She's doing bad in algebra. She's self conscious about her like, physical appearance because this is a. Just an awkward time to be a human.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

To be like 14, 15 and to be, to be a human. Like everybody doesn't already think I'm a freak. I'm practically the biggest freak in the entire school. I mean, let's face it, I'm 5 foot 9, flat chested and a freshman. How much more of a freak could I be? If people find. If people at school find out about this, I'm dead. That's it. Dead. Oh, God, if you really do exist, please don't let them find out about this. There are 4 million people in Manhattan, right? That makes about 2 million of them. Guys. So out of 2 million guys, she has to go out with Mr. Giannini? She can't go out with some guy. I don't know. She can't go out with some guy she met at D'Agostino's or wherever. Oh, no, this is her writing about her mom dating her math teacher because her mom's like, you know, I feel like you need to get your feelings out somehow somewhere. Why don't you start writing a diary?

[Craig]

What is the deal with her mom? Is her mom, like, her mom is.

[Andrew]

Kind of a hippie dippy.

[Craig]

Yes. Okay.

[Andrew]

Artist. Like bohemian artist type.

[Craig]

She's raised in the film.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. She's raising Mia mostly alone in Greenwich Village in New York. There is a section where Mia and her friend Lily, who has like a public access TV show.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Called I think Lily Tells it how it Is or something like that.

[Craig]

I don't remember what it's called in the movie, but she the similar, like a very activist. A 90s activist character in the film.

[Andrew]

Very 90s activist. And so there. There is a. There is a segment on Lily Tells It Like It Is where they go around a park and ask people to. To pronounce Greenwich Village. And whenever they say, you know, Greenwich Village or whatever, they scream and run away from the green witch. And that's the. That's the joke.

[Craig]

It's just Billy on the Street.

[Andrew]

It's a little bit Billy on the street is this Billy on the street is. Lily tells it like it is.

[Craig]

How do you pronounce this? I'm very tall. That's my impression of Jerry Seinfeld doing Billy on the Street. Excuse me.

[Andrew]

Sure. Jerry on the street.

[Craig]

Okay, sorry, go ahead.

[Andrew]

Comedians in coffee shops, yelling about cars. Is that a.

[Craig]

That's something. We're getting there. But this is all you talking about. You like the voice, you like the setup.

[Andrew]

I like the voice. It's all like this. So you get a lot of like diary kind of constructs. Like, Mia likes to make a list of things that she's gonna do or stop doing. Mia likes to jot little algebra notes in. At the. In at the end of entries or like her school schedule or whatever. Just like the things that. In like a pre smartphone world that you would jot down in your little notebook as you flitted from class to class in high school. You just get a bunch of little.

[Craig]

Things in your bullet journal. Your bujo.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And I.

[Craig]

Well, okay, no, I mean, bujos didn't exist back then.

[Andrew]

That's what I'm. You know, for one, that's the worst Stephen King novel I ever read is bujo.

[Craig]

That dog stinks.

[Andrew]

That dog sucks bujo. But. And it's even like that. That stuff is all. It is all used to build this character because she is bad at algebra. Somebody who is trying to help her get better at algebra was like, what if you had an algebra notebook instead of just like writing little bits and pieces in this diary and then never being able to find them or learn from them or anything ever again? So. So, yeah, the book does a really great job. I think of one having a distinctive voice from the start and one that definitely does transport you back to high school.

[Craig]

Cool.

[Andrew]

In terms of just like the social and because you and I had liveness. Yeah, I. My.

[Craig]

I used my LiveJournal in high school.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like writing in my.

[Craig]

Think I've nuked it.

[Andrew]

Writing in my livejournal was more of a. More of a college thing. I definitely made it private before I lost the password. I don't remember if I ever, like fully.

[Craig]

You're looking.

[Andrew]

I just don't like. Is it even still. Is the site even still up?

[Craig]

Yes, LiveJournal still exists.

[Andrew]

My LiveJournal is still there. I will not say or reveal anything else about it. But it's still there.

[Craig]

Okay. But we. We had live journals and. Which explains our high school experience a little bit, I'm sure.

[Andrew]

I think in high school I had a Zenga briefly.

[Craig]

I never had a Zanga.

[Andrew]

Never had a Zanga.

[Craig]

Never had a Zanga, Never had a Friendster, never had a MySpace. I don't think what I'm interested to hear is like, that the diary is kind of woven into the. I'm not surprised the. That is woven into the structure of the novel because, like, there is very little in the movie that is this character has a diary that is like not a thing until the end of the movie, if I recall correctly.

[Andrew]

Yeah, this is. This is hitting an interesting point Internet wise too, because the Internet is a thing. And she does chat via. I don't remember if.

[Craig]

Oh, neat.

[Andrew]

Specifically aim. But you do get some IMing in this between her and a couple of characters. Lily's brother, who is like, not even before Mia even realizes it. We, the audience know that she clearly has some kind of a crush on Lily's brother Michael. But yeah, a big thing with him is he's always on the Internet. And so they're thinking about getting a second phone line because nobody can make phone calls while this guy's on the Internet.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, we just. We learn about Mia, we learn about her friend Lily. We learn about Lily's brother Michael. We learn a little bit about Mia's mom. We learn about some of the other characters in the school. So we get a little bit about Mr. Giannini, who is her algebra teacher who her mom is seeing. And it's going very well between Mrs. Thermopolis and. And Mr. Giannini.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

He is. He is. He is staying over.

[Craig]

Whoa.

[Andrew]

And he. They didn't. They didn't do anything. He just slept on the couch. Her mom said convincingly. But, yeah, Mia's mom definitely thought that Mia was gonna sleep over at Lily's one night, and so had Mr. Mr. Giannini stay over and then was very surprised to hear that Mia had come. Come home for some reason.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, things are going great there. But the book isn't about adults or from an adult perspective. And so mostly Mia's perception of this is, like, he seems like he makes mom happy. She does threaten to kick his butt if he makes her mom sad. So, like, a lot of her dislike of him is coming from a place of concern about her mom, but she's a teenager, so she doesn't know that yet.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

And we learn about Josh Richter, who is a hot boy.

[Craig]

Oh, yeah. Gotta be a hot boy.

[Andrew]

He's a hot boy at high school. And this. This is the guy who Mia is, like, explicitly crushing on, or thinks she is. She is crushing on. And then Josh Richter's girlfriend, Lana Weinberger, who is a. Like, a cheerleader, popular girl type.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Who mostly makes fun of Mia when she acknowledges her existence at all. So you get a lot of, like, classic high school archetypes in here.

[Craig]

I think Mandy Moore plays that role in the film. Pretty good use of Mandy Moore as Lana.

[Andrew]

Does she also put on, like, old age makeup to play Weinberger's mom or anything?

[Craig]

No, they don't confuse the timelines.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

But it is a pretty good reminder of, like. No, she actually is a compelling screen presence. I don't really know this boy. Eric Thomas Van Von Detten, who played Josh in the film. He has. He has credits. I just don't. I can't place him in anything major. But that's. That's whatever. People have careers.

[Andrew]

Lily and Michael exist in the movie. Or.

[Craig]

No, Lily, very fun actress Heather Matarazzo, who has, like, kind of, like, really fun best friend energy. Also very good, like, yelling about Greenpeace the whole movie. And Michael, her brother, also very compelling guy with bangs in the movie.

[Andrew]

Let's. Let's talk about Lily's arc real quick, because. Okay, in the. So in the book, Mia, she has a dad named Philippe Ronaldo, who is kind of out of the picture. He and her mom still talk sometimes, and she knows that he Lives in, like, Genovia and does important things in Genova, but she doesn't really make any connections. It's revealed to her that Philippe had testicular cancer and can no longer reproduce. And he had kind of been banking on being able to produce another heir. And he just couldn't. I don't know why.

[Craig]

Like, her parents split and like that. Like, she would have to. She wouldn't have to be involved in Genovia, maybe.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Her. Her parents split. Like, Mrs. Thermopolis was happy to, like, take Mia and raise her and, like, not really have Philippe in their lives. Like, that was fine. And he had never really committed to any woman for more than a couple of years. It doesn't sound okay.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

But, yeah, he was kind of banking on. On, you know, fathering a future heir. And this person would do all the Genovia stuff. And Mia would never have to really know about it. Like, Mia just knows of Genovia as a place where she goes in summers and gets treated really nice for some reason that she hasn't really thought about before. What. How's it in the movie? How's it in the. My memory of the movie is just, like. She gets blindsided with it. Like, she doesn't know.

[Craig]

Do you want me to tell you?

[Andrew]

Yes. Okay.

[Craig]

The father is dead. The father is not in the movie at all. Oh, no.

[Andrew]

Did he die of his. Die of his.

[Craig]

They don't. I don't think that they explain it.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

From Meg Cabot in a. A oral history from Cosmopolitan magazine. Deborah, the producer, called me and said, we have to kill off the father. From your book. And I said, why? And she said, we want to have a bigger role for the grandmother because we've got this great actress that wants to play her. And I asked, who's the actress? And she said, it's Julie Andrews. And I was like, oh, my God. Kill him. Kill the dad.

[Andrew]

That's. That's the. That's the right reaction, I think.

[Craig]

So that's the way.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Quickly. The way that it's handled in the movie is there's, like, not a lot of setup of. Of this whole, like, date my mom is dating my teacher thing. That is a very low subplot of the film. That is mostly supplementing Mia's anxiety about the fact that her mom kept Genovia at all it. From her entirely for her entire life.

[Andrew]

Yeah. In the book, it's presented more as just, like, Mia's own inability to put two and two together. That mostly. That's wild away from her, like, her mom doesn't push the Genova thing at all. Because I think she is expecting Philippe to solve the issue another way and just never have it come up. But, yeah, Mia is unaware of her status as Genovian royalty, but mostly through her own, like, lack of which curiosity.

[Craig]

Honestly, makes more sense in a book where it is like a pov. Confined to her diary.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

The novel is not really engaged. The movie is not really engaged in the diary construct. So it is like, no, the parents had this agreement that they wouldn't tell her about Genovia until she was 18. But then he died two months ago. And so now the Queen of Genovia is spending all of her time at the San Franciscan Consulate so that she can begin to, like, tell her granddaughter about Genovia and convince her to be a princess. That's the setup of the film.

[Andrew]

I think what it is. What it is in the book specifically, which is so wild, is that Mia knows that her dad is named Philippe Ronaldo, and he lives in Genovia. And that he does important stuff in Genovia. And then she also knows that in Genovia there's this other guy named Prince Ronaldo who is a totally. Who couldn't possibly have anything to do with her dad, because why would he.

[Craig]

I do love that. That feels very teenager, though. That's good.

[Andrew]

But, yeah, Philippe blows into town. He's saying, I don't remember if it's at the consulate. I think it's just, like, a fancy hotel that he stays in all the time.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

Has come to say, okay, I had ball cancer and I can't do heirs anymore. And so now you're my only heir. And you need to. You are Princess of Genovia now because you're gonna need to take over my duties. Yeah, it's a wild setup. Her full name is Emilia Mignonette Grimaldi Thermopolis Ronaldo. Princess of Genovia.

[Craig]

Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah. It's a real name. As someone with many names, I get it.

[Andrew]

So, okay, so Mia finds this out and she is not. She's not telling anybody about it, including Lily. And so Mia is dealing with this with her own thing. I think Lily senses that something's going on and Mia's not telling her about it. And then Lily's political cause in this book is there is a, like, an Asian run grocery store across from the high school called, like, Ho's Deli or something. And she finds out Lily does that Asian students shopping at this convenience store get charged a nickel less than students of other races. And she. Lily, has. Has decided to take this up to combat racism. Because she's like, yeah, first they're charging us more for stuff at their convenience store. But that. That way leads to fascism and Hitler. And I've got. I've got to use my public access TV show to solve this. To solve this problem.

[Craig]

I don't know how I feel about Lily's stance here.

[Andrew]

I don't know how I feel about it either. Lily Moskovitz, like, she's Jewish, and her mom and dad. Yeah, yeah. Are pretty. It sounds, like, observant. Ish. Jewish.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

So, like, there's another dimension to it, too.

[Craig]

I think this is way more specific than I was.

[Andrew]

So this is. You mentioned that she's just like, yeah, Greenpeace. Greenpeace. And I think that Mia mentions Greenpeace in the same way that she mentions being, like, vegetarian and a couple other things. She's just like. She's just, like, ambiently liberal because of her mom and because of her, like, upbringing.

[Craig]

But, yeah, Lily in the film is, like, ever. Almost every scene she has a different cause. And she's, like, committed to all of them. But they don't build to a plot. It is, like a character trait more than a plot thing. This is interesting.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like, the peak of their. Of their kind of feud in the book, where they aren't really talking is that Mia has. Okay, so Mia's grandma also blows into town. And Grandma sucks. Grandma is really nasty to everybody. Grandma calls the tabloids and tells them that Mia is a princess and completely upends Mia's life because now the press is following her around everywhere. And she has to go around with, like, a bodyguard all the time. And so she's already got all this anxiety about, like, status and just, like, being perceived as a teenager who goes to high school. And Grandma blows this all up because it's all this is what Grandma wants for Genovia. And of course, Philippe is completely. He's impotent in more ways than one in this book. And one of the ways that he's impotent is that he can't produce an heir. And so Mia has to be the princess of Genovia. But the other way he's impotent is he can't stand up to his mom at all.

[Craig]

Sucks.

[Andrew]

So Mia. Mia has been outed. And Lily, of course, is anti royalist.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

This is one of her traits. She's anti royalist because this is not, like a representative. This is not a representative form of government.

[Craig]

Lily's Locketifa. Yes.

[Andrew]

Is Lily's. Yes, mainly. And so Lily is enjoying this like a bump of popularity from taking on a cause du jour that has briefly gotten a bunch of like, publicity and a bunch of people who are instantly going to lose interest in it. Have not yet lost interest in it as sure as a cause. At the same time that Mia has been totally excluded because she's got this bodyguard now and everybody knows she's Princess of Genova and it's just like called all this unwanted attention to her and it's. So. Yeah, the voice of the book is really interesting. But I also think it's cool how Mia gets to grow a little bit like Mia in this period where she and Lily are fighting and she feels really alienated is she's like, I don't know where to sit at lunch now. And so she goes to sit at a table where this girl, Tina Hiki. Tina Hikim Baba, who is. Her dad's like a. Like an oil baron or something.

[Craig]

Not in the movie at all. I saw this in the Wikipedia and I was like, I've. I'm gonna let Andrew tell me all about this because this is not in the movie whatsoever.

[Andrew]

She. She always sits alone at a lunch table with her bodyguard. And she's perceived as a weirdo because she has a bodyguard and her like, dad is rich and nobody wants to be friends with her. And then Mia sits with her and realizes, hey, this girl is really nice and has like these. All these little moments of growth where like, it is actually like bad of me as much as Lana Weinberger or whoever, like, torments me for being unpopular and weird looking or whatever. Like, I also have been so obsessed with like cliquishness and like being seen with the right people and whatever that this perfectly nice girl who I myself was like making fun of and avoiding, you know, a couple of weeks ago. She's so nice. Yeah. And wouldn't it just be nice if everybody could just be nice to each other?

[Craig]

Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.

[Andrew]

That's nice. And so she like, she and Lily reconcile because there's some like, specific stuff with Genovian politics where they like make all their money from tourism or something. Where somehow this is the one monarchy on the planet Earth. It's not like, built on the backs of like, workers or what.

[Craig]

I do have a lot of questions just on watching the film about like. And I'm sure this first book can't answer any of them of like, okay, the film references a parliament but how strong is that? Parliament versus the monarchy. The monarchy, very important. And the, the falling out that they have in the film has to do with Mia missing a scheduled appearance on Lily's talk show.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Mia has. Has missed out on filming like the hose deli stuff that's way more specific. Yeah, sure. Breaking point.

[Craig]

Yeah. And they get back together because Lily is not as anti royalist as it sounds like she is in the book, but that she is like, I believe in my friend as an agent for change. Seize the reins of power. Like, yeah, take the throne and you can be a good person in a place where someone who would be less than you would otherwise take the throne.

[Andrew]

That's interesting. That's an interesting way to do it. Because in the book what happens is. So after this initial period where Mia is feeling very alienated and cut off from everybody, people suddenly start being really nice to her, including Lana. Weinberger tries to get in good with her. Josh Richter breaks up with Lana and then is like, hey, are you going to the multicultural dance? It's a multicultural dance. And there are just a couple of really funny little notes about, like, what does and does not count as a culture for purposes of, like, getting a table at the multicultural dance. Michael really didn't have anyone else to hang out with since Principal Gupta ruled that the Internet is not a culture and therefore cannot have its own table. And so the computer club boycotted the cultural diversity dance on principle. Whoa. A lot of Star Trek stuff in this book also, like, Mia regularly compares Philippe to Jean Luc Picard. Sounds like he's got a very, like, so interesting. A very. Yeah, Patrick Stewart kind of stentorian grandpa.

[Craig]

That is the stuff that is definitely going to get ironed out as, like, Disney moves into, like, this is our movie.

[Andrew]

Then somebody started talking about Star Trek, Deep Space Nine, and whether or not there's caffeine in Replicator coffee. And Michael insisted that the matter used to make the things that come out of the Replicator is from refuse. Which means maybe when you order an ice cream sundae, it might be made out of urine, but with the germs and impurities extracted. And that is basically how I understand Replicator technology to work.

[Craig]

Meg Cabot admitted to writing Star wars fan fiction.

[Andrew]

She is here, but she's also doing Star Trek stuff.

[Craig]

I love it.

[Andrew]

Mia's big into Star Trek. I mean, if you're listening to Star.

[Craig]

Trek deep space stuff that you talk.

[Andrew]

About, you're watching Deep Space Nine in, like, 1998. You are. You. You are not. I mean, you're sitting at the table.

[Craig]

By yourself, looking for something like a big nerd who knows what a Replicator is. And I get it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Deep Space Nine, objectively, is the best one, but I do. It does. There's a cred that comes with talking about Deep Space Nine rather than being like, wow, would they really put up with Neelix on Voyager? Wow.

[Craig]

Wow. Deep Space Mine is the Ronald Moore one, right? Is that right? See, that's the one that I've thought about if I'm going to sit and do a Beginning to end Star Trek.

[Andrew]

I've never done a beginning to end. I'm so excited to hear that you're even entertaining.

[Craig]

DS9 is the one I've considered because of the Ronald Moore connection.

[Andrew]

I will make you a curated list of first and second season episodes so you don't have to watch the bad ones in the first second season. You can just. And then you can just. And I got. Listen, I got it all. Got it all. My.

[Craig]

I know.

[Andrew]

It's on my media server. It's all on your server.

[Craig]

I can just tap in there.

[Andrew]

It's really good.

[Craig]

This is a good idea.

[Andrew]

Ben would be excited too, if you watched you say, okay, anyway.

[Craig]

But no. So this is interesting because, like, there's not a lot of this stuff in the film. Like the.

[Andrew]

When you write between Disney and Paramount would have been to even get our true mention in there.

[Craig]

Right? The. The stuff. The. The reveal of her identity happens because of a hairdresser, Larry, played by Larry Miller, the dad from 10 Things I Hate about you in a great fun role where he is so egotistic about how well he did her makeup and her hair that he spilled it to the press and then it becomes the talk of the school. But there's never this, like, prolonged exploration of what it would be like, you know, like her and Lily are kind of navigating their stuff. Manny Moore is still being mean to her. Josh punks her to. To like, get with the press. Like, it's not. What is interesting about the novel as you're describing it is. Is we don't have as much time with her, like, kind of thinking about herself in this. In this new way. Because. Because it also has to balance this stuff with the, like the. All of her princess lessons with a much more likable Julie Andrews than what it sounds like.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So she does do. She does do some princess lesson stuff in this, but it's just not a huge part of the book. Like, she and her dad work out early that. Okay, I'LL be Princess of Genovia. But until I graduate from high school, like, I'm gonna live in New York with my mom. I'm gonna go to the same high school I've been going to. Like, I'm gonna try and continue living my normal life. And so, yeah, the princess stuff does upend her insofar as it completely, like, blows up her spot in the high school hierarchy. But that is most of what the book is concerned about is like, very high school level. Like.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yep.

[Andrew]

Like, she could be. She could be popular, like, suddenly popular for any reason. And I think that a lot of the book could. Could play out the exact same way. Like the princess stuff. I think it has some resonance in the book because she, Mia talks about, like, Princess die. Because it happened pretty recently. And so I think there. There is a lot of, like, she was this phenomenon because she was like a. She was more of a common person and people in America were like, totally nuts about her. Like, I remember my. Well, I had an aunt who was really, really upset when Princess Di died.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Because she was just like, occupied a weird, like, celebrity space in. In American culture that I think Mia is also like, Mia and everyone around her are responding to a little bit. You know what I mean?

[Craig]

I don't think that that comes through in the novel the same way that in the film in the same way, like, there is this, like, kind of bizarre press fascination with her that as I was watching it yesterday, I was like, what is this about? As you're talking about the Princess Die stuff, it makes more sense. The movie makes no explicit references to her, which maybe kind of makes that, like, feel a little less connected.

[Andrew]

When you're talking the media as a big cloud of vultures, you are often thinking about them in terms of, like, blaming them for Princess Di dying. I mean, a lot of people.

[Craig]

There's a scene in the movie where, like, she's at a. Instead of the multicultural dance, they do a almost like 60s style teens on the beach dance where Mandy Moore gets to sing a song. Of course.

[Andrew]

Of course she does. That's gotta be. That's been in her writer for. For decades now.

[Craig]

And then, like, Josh tricks her into a room to, like, make out. But then he knows the press will see him, which is fun.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And that's.

[Andrew]

That's what ends up happening at the cultural diversity dance too, is they go like. They go on a bad date and he gets like. He gets super drunk and then he kisses her in front of the cameras. And then he gets in and she. This is part of her character growth, too, is just becoming more assertive and being like, yeah, you're not. You're not here for the right reasons, and I'm gonna kick you to the curb and you suck. And that's. That is why she and Lily reconciles. Like, Lily sees her, like, still being the. The girl that Lily knows. And yes, like, kind of lifting a veil from Lily's eyes. But anyway, continue.

[Craig]

Oh, no, because then there's like, a scene where you're like, oh, is Mandy Moore gonna be like, oh, yeah, we all hate that guy. Josh and Manny Moore is like, get in this tent and change your clothes. And then, like, immediately calls the press over and like, a paparazzi in a helicopter shows up on the beach. Like, it's just bananas. And it. I'm surprised I did not think about the princess die stuff because of the way. I just don't think that the movie is, like, really engaging with that. Even though there is a paparazzi thing in the film.

[Andrew]

I just think that, like, a Disney.

[Craig]

Like, a Disney movie just never uses her name. So I didn't think about it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I just. I don't even think it's, like, a name. I just think a Disney movie is, like, trying not to bum you out too much in a way that might preclude them from drawing a bunch of, like, explicit princess die compare. That's true.

[Craig]

And. And because there is a much warmer relationship with the grandmother, like, all of this press navigation stuff, immediately, every time there's a scene of it, it gets, like, thrown into the do Anne Hathaway and Julie Andrews, like, like each other in the scene or not? And, like, how are they responding to each other? We obviously want them to love each other. And are they mad at each other or not in this. In whatever scene it is. Like, that's the whole movie.

[Andrew]

Grandma, like, sometimes she does things that seem not awful sometimes, but I think mostly she sucks. Like, she kind of wall to wall sucks.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

I'm comfortable making that assertion, I think.

[Craig]

No, no, it sounds like it. That sounds like.

[Andrew]

That's Grandma. Grandma in the book, wall to wall sucks.

[Craig]

Right?

[Andrew]

But yeah, so, I mean, at the end of the book, you get this nice thing where, like, she and Michael, like, have a little dance, realizing that they both kind of. Kind of like each other. And Sheila and Lily are friends again. And Tina Hakeem Baba is. Is friends again. And like, Tina Hakeem Baba's bodyguard and Mia's bodyguard are, like, super cool pals. I love that you only Get. You only get to see it in passing when they're, like, talking about what their favorite guns are or whatever. But they're super good bodyguard friends.

[Craig]

That's great.

[Andrew]

Mia's bodyguard sometimes like, high fives Michael when he's, like, doing a really good job with me.

[Craig]

That's very good.

[Andrew]

He just get. He. Lars, I think, is our bodyguard's name. He gets. He gets fleshed out in the. In the margins in a way where he's like. You know, you watch these shows that have, like, kind of a taciturn kind of guy who ends up being like a breakout character in his. In his way, like a real Mike Ehrmantraut kind of.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Presence. I think that's what you get from Lars, a little.

[Craig]

Hector, somebody who read the manuscript of the novel, knew that. That when they created Joe, who is Mia's, like, limo driver and the. The queen's head of security. Hector Elizondo plays him in the film. He's like the moral compass of the film. He's very charming. He does make a weird joke about San Francisco that I didn't love, where he was buying pumps, and he's like, this is a weird town. They asked me if I wanted them wrapped up or if I wanted to wear them out of here. You're like, huh? It's very 90s.

[Andrew]

Yeah. The book is very.

[Craig]

This is all San Francisco.

[Andrew]

Of course, the. The book in. In New York is. Is very. Like, you never learn about whether, like, Lars is, like, Chandler Bing style homophobic or whatever. Like, you never, you know, you don't get that from Lars. It's very much like Mia is living in a pretty liberal neighborhood in a pretty liberal city, and like, gay people and trans people are, you know, pretty, like, par for the course for her. And that doesn't mean that it is in the rest of the country, but it's just like this is. This is normal for Mia. And so to the extent that it goes remarked upon at all, it is just like, yeah, look at this. Look at this kind of progressive, diverse neighborhood and upbringing that I've had. This is. This is my life, is what I'm used to.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah. The movie. I don't think the movie fully delivers on that, but it does kind of gesture to that with, like, it's San Francisco, baby. In San Francisco.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Anyway, yeah, the security character is kind of. It sounds like it's pretty similar, but yeah, they just.

[Andrew]

By the end.

[Craig]

But where does this build to? What does the novel build to?

[Andrew]

By the end, everybody's kind of Friend, like, Mia has expanded her friend circle. She's feeling more comfortable with herself. She's, like, kind of admitted this crush that she has on Michael and things are going well. It just seemed like everything was going really bad for her because things just kept happening and happening and happening. And now things kind of seemed like they're falling into place. And that's kind of where the. The book ends is like in this post cultural diversity dance glow where she's feeling more confident in her. In herself and in her place. And I don't know where the next, like, 12 Princess Diaries books.

[Craig]

Yeah, sure.

[Andrew]

From there. But that. That's where we leave. That's where we stop here. It's like you never. You never go to Genovia.

[Craig]

That. I have a huge.

[Andrew]

We never go to Genovia. These people don't know who she is. No. You know, you're in New York doing heist, like New York high school student stuff the entire time. Except for princess lessons or whatever. But. Yeah. No, you never. You never see Genovia. She never has to do any official duties. She does seem like she's doing okay at princess class, but that's it.

[Craig]

That's just what I guess, like, was she.

[Andrew]

How many of these did you say she had written when she was shopping? The first one around? Like, two or three of them already, I think.

[Craig]

I think she'd written two or three by the time the first movie came out.

[Andrew]

Okay. Yeah. I just. It feels like Meg Cabot maybe knew she had a lot of. She had a lot of ideas and she didn't want to burn through them all in one book.

[Craig]

Yeah, she did. There was an interview where she mentioned that, like, as soon as the movie was on a fast track and maybe it got picked up at the book publisher, there was already an international publisher who was like, we'll do it. And maybe more than one, please.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like, especially once Disney comes to call in. You're like, even if this is like a pretty bad Disney movie, this is gonna call a level of attention to me.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

That I can and should capitalize on. And so let's. Let's do it. Let's do a series, baby.

[Craig]

Everything she's. She's said about it seems like it's pretty magnanimous. And like, listen, they made a great. They made a movie that people love out of a book that I wrote that people love. It changed my life. Cool, cool, cool. She seems like a pretty down to earth lady. I was just surprised that from your telling of the plot, there is not this like will or will she not become the princess? Because that is a very. That is the focus of the movie. It is like by the end of the movie, she's going to tell Julie Andrews whether or not she abdicates her birthright.

[Andrew]

No.

[Craig]

That it is like a whole thing.

[Andrew]

I think the. The door is still open to that, but they kind of dispense with that pretty, pretty quickly. It's like, yeah, I'm. I have worked out with my dad that I am going to be able to stay in. Stay with mom, do high school, like, keep my life sort of familiar for a while. And because I am 15, that I've. I consider. This can kicks down the road.

[Craig]

Like, this is sure interesting.

[Andrew]

You know, if you're thinking about. I'm not gonna have to think about this until after I graduate high school and you're a freshman. That's like forever. That's your whole life.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

You've got a wild unlimited time.

[Craig]

I. I get why the movie changed it, because the movie is like, hey, after this movie's over, she's gonna move to Genofia right away. And then I. And then I have a lot of questions about how the Genovan Press is gonna deal with this American girl.

[Andrew]

Listen, I'm not. And I'm not familiar with the second movie at all. And I don't know how or the extent to which it mirrors what happens in any of the books, but are.

[Craig]

There hijinks in this book? As my last question for you, what.

[Andrew]

Do you mean hijinks?

[Craig]

Like, there's a whole scene in the film where she's at, like, a fancy dinner and she, like, sets a guy's arm on fire and then she, like, eats ice cubes. Weird. And then trips a guy under the table.

[Andrew]

There are no Three Stooges style physical comedy shenanigans that happen.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

No, just.

[Craig]

That is what the movie uses a lot of to make you like her. And it sounds like from you. You like the character because of the voice.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And. And the little like. I feel like I know I've ever been this type of person or whatever.

[Andrew]

The feeling is, the voice, the extent to which it spoke to my version of the high school experience or like our generation version of the high school experience. Like me and me as a couple years older than us. But not bad so much that it would dramatically, like, change anything. But yeah, like that. The familiarity of that, the, like the, the fun of, like the teenage girl voice, you know, like, in a way that didn't feel like, overdone or played or anything. And then. Yeah, the, the bits of fun, gratifying, like character development that you, you do get while she like stays herself the entire time. Yeah, like that, that is all. That's all what, what kept me entertained as I read. Yeah.

[Craig]

Well, I'm glad you dug it.

[Andrew]

And yeah, there's no, there's no scene where Mia like pokes somebody's eyes out with her fingers and then somebody else like smashes a creep pie in her face or anything.

[Craig]

I think the best.

[Andrew]

It's none of that.

[Craig]

I think the best scene in the movie is she's trying. She. She has a 1965 Mustang that she's been trying to get repaired. That she is.

[Andrew]

There's none of that because she lives in New York City.

[Craig]

No. So she's driving.

[Andrew]

She doesn't have a hill, she doesn't have a car.

[Craig]

She's driving it uphill in San Francisco even though she doesn't have a driver's license. And she has the Queen of Genovia in the car with her. And the, this, the car gives out and she falls backwards into a San Francisco trolley. And then she gets. She's starting to get in trouble with the cops and the trolley driver and the Queen of Genovia like has a, like rolls a nat 20 on a persuasion check. And it's like, hey you. I'm gonna bestow a made up order on these wonderful men here in San Francisco from Genovia.

[Andrew]

And I think if you were, if, if you were the monarch of a small country that exists to European countries, you've got to be. Yep, rolling up with like at least 20 in your natural charisma. Like that is your. I don't know, you could, you could dump most of the other stats, but you don't need, you really need charisma. Yes, you do. In this space.

[Craig]

Yeah. And so, and it's just really charming. Like Julie Andrews. Like you watch her decide to break rules for the first time in the movie. And Anne Hathaway's character Mia, like sees her differently for the first time. And it's this like interesting turning point in their relationship, which is really fun. None of that, but none of that sounds like it's in the book.

[Andrew]

Grandma sucks on toast in this movie.

[Craig]

Is she closer to her dad in like a meaningful way by the end of the novel?

[Andrew]

Not really. Like he's just, he is around mostly to be ineffective in the face of the gale force winds that are Mia's mom and grandma.

[Craig]

Okay. Okay, cool.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like we don't. I don't think we hate him. I think we. See there are a couple people in the book who I think we're mainly supposed to feel bad about. Like, Lana. I think Lana, who does not get some kind of, like, redemption, redeeming moment or any kind of, like, final. Like, she kind of disappears from the book after Josh breaks up with her. And Mia is like, I do. I do actually feel bad for Lana. And my gut reaction to be skeptical of a guy who would dump someone.

[Craig]

Yeah, sure.

[Andrew]

Out that quickly. Like, I was right to have that. It's a good lesson in my head was talking to me about that.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

But, yeah, like, Lana, I think you're mainly supposed to feel bad for. I think the dad you're mainly supposed to feel bad for because now he's like, you know, he had his ball cancer and now he can't reproduce. And he never settled down with anybody. And he just kind of seems like he doesn't know what to. What to do with himself. Yeah.

[Craig]

And he has to. He has, like, reconnect with this person he deliberately intended not to have to reconnect with in a real way.

[Andrew]

It's not that they didn't have a connection. It's just that he. You know, she never. He never thought that she was going to be the princess of Genovia. Because he thought he was going to. You know.

[Craig]

It is wild.

[Andrew]

Spread some more oats. Ever.

[Craig]

That she ever spent any time in Genovia before.

[Andrew]

The plot of this Summers. She summers in Genovia all the time.

[Craig]

So absurd.

[Andrew]

Anyway, it's like if I read in the newspaper tomorrow that there was a. There was a little country that was nestled in between, like, Poland and somewhere that there was like a. There was king. King getting. Was there.

[Craig]

And I. And I've been going there for a while, but, like, you know anything about it?

[Andrew]

Like a bunch of T shirts or something with, like, the name of the country on them.

[Craig]

They have barcades. I love it over there.

[Andrew]

And people would always be making jokes about how the king was getting. Like, this king's getting a good deal or what. Like the kind of cool, funny jokes that you would inevitably have to make if you ran for any kind of elected office.

[Craig]

I can't remember if I've said this on the pod. I was surprised that the first time someone made a joke about my last name in earnest was, like, high school. It took that long.

[Andrew]

I think that's more about a reflection.

[Craig]

Of the people I was spending time with.

[Andrew]

Maybe like a reflection of, like, English education in the People just were not making those kind of sophisticated word plays until they were at the high school level. You know, that's fair.

[Craig]

Maybe if I'd grown up in Europe, I would have been getting blasted in third grade. Who knows?

[Andrew]

Craig getting blasted in third grade?

[Craig]

Oh, no.

[Andrew]

You said it, not me. Princess Diaries. I liked it.

[Craig]

Okay, go read the book. Also watch the movie. It's a charming film. It's just very different from the book.

[Andrew]

Very different.

[Craig]

Gary Marshall did a good job. Anne Hathaway is wonderful. Julie Andrews is very charming.

[Andrew]

All you San Fran sickos, go watch the movie.

[Craig]

I guess they probably already have. Andrew, please.

[Andrew]

That's true.

[Craig]

They go to the mission, they eat a burrito. They watch Princess Diary.

[Andrew]

One of the iconic San Francisco movies. That.

[Craig]

Yeah, that and the Sting or whatever.

[Andrew]

And the. And the Star Trek where they go back in time to save the whales. Because that's also San Francisco also. Yeah.

[Craig]

All right, send us an email. Overduepotgmail.com Let me know if the Sting is actually a San Francisco movie. From thinking of something else. Hit us up on social media @overdue pod. We're on Instagram and Blue sky most of the time these days. You can follow us there. Thanks to some people for spending time with us on social media. Ryan Gav, Jeffrey, Robert, Shayla Rabia, and many more. Our theme song is composed by Nick Laurengis. Andrew, if folks want to know more about the show, where do they go?

[Andrew]

Everything I can find about the Sting indicates that it happens in Illinois.

[Craig]

But what or should be am I thinking about?

[Andrew]

I don't have no idea. What's Roger Rabbit's an LA movie, Right?

[Craig]

I'm thinking about because it's lamenting the.

[Andrew]

Passing of public transit in L. A.

[Craig]

I can't just Google San Francisco car chase. I have to add movie to it. Oh, it's Bullet. It's Bullet. It is a Steve McQueen movie, though. Yes. Okay, Bullet. Thank you. Tell him about the website.

[Andrew]

Andrew does not appear to be involved in the movie. The Sting.

[Craig]

Whoops. Okay.

[Andrew]

It's a Paul Newman joint. Robert Redford's in it.

[Craig]

This is. This is like last week when you didn't know which princess.

[Andrew]

Like last week where I did mix up the Princess Diaries and the Princess Bride. That's. Thank you for reminding. Thank you for getting out of your own awkward situation by reminding everybody that I did that. Overduepodcast.com is our Internet website. Up there we have links to the books that we have read and are going to read. Our January schedule is going to be ready when it's ready, everybody. Okay.

[Craig]

Okay. Please.

[Andrew]

We also have a Patreon page. Patreon.com overdue pod Big changes are brewing over there, as we've been saying for several weeks and months.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But they should be, they should be ready to go in January. I'm gonna say that I'm gonna plant. I've just been trying to state my intentions lately in the hopes that it will like push me to, to do more stuff.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Instead of just thinking about it. So that's, that's a thing. But. Patreon.com overdue pod buy the show equipment and books. Buy us childcare. Your financial support makes, literally makes the show exist. So thank you so much. Everybody who supports and who is thinking about supporting you get access to bonus episodes early, including our current long read project about Ann M. Martin's the Babysitters Club. We just posted episode five of that, which is about four. Well, yes, episode four, because the first episode is episode zero. Yes, you're right. Marianne saves the day, wherein Marianne does save the day. And then also access our Discord community and all kinds of other stuff. Patreon.com overdue pod Andrew, quickly, before we.

[Craig]

Close out, I do need to tell you that according to starringthecomputer.com there is an Apple clamshell iBook G3 in the Princess Diaries 2001.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

The web Max, Mia's friend Jeremiah, who I think dates Lily briefly. There's a five star rating scale on this website. One stars for importance, five stars for realism, three stars for visibility. Just need you.

[Andrew]

I think the iBook G3 is one of the last ones before they fix the Apple logo so that it was right side up. If you were looking at the laptop from the back when it was open. Do you remember this? Oh, these old Apple laptops.

[Craig]

I didn't think about this while I was watching them.

[Andrew]

No, the apple logo on them is upside down. When you're looking at the open laptop from.

[Craig]

Oh, that's bananas. Because it's right side up when you're looking at it closed.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And then they changed. They changed it later. And so current it's not bananas, it's apples. It's apples. They have the right side up apple logo now, but all right, just like this one. Goofy old upside down logos. Think about it.

[Craig]

Think about it. Get us out of here, Andrew.

[Andrew]

Thank you, everybody. All right, until we talk to you next week, please, please, please try to be happy.