Ep 686 - Chicken Soup for the Soul, by Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, and Amy Newmark

Summary

Overdue Podcast Episode 686 Summary: "Chicken Soup for the Soul"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Overdue
• Host/Author: Headgum (Andrew and Craig)
• Episode: 686
• Release Date: January 20, 2025
• Book Discussed: Chicken Soup for the Soul by Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, and Amy Newmark

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1. Introduction and Patreon Updates (00:02 - 01:30)

Andrew and Craig kick off the episode by sharing exciting news about their Patreon project. They announce the introduction of new features such as a newsletter, monthly Q&A streams, and experimental non-book episode formats, including a 90-minute discussion on the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 movie. They encourage listeners to support their endeavors through Patreon, highlighting benefits like ad-free episodes and early access to special projects.

Notable Quote:

• Craig (00:04): "Howdy everyone. It's Craig and Andrew. We've got some news for you. News you can use and be enthusiastic about."

2. Overview of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" (02:04 - 12:10)

Craig introduces the main topic: Chicken Soup for the Soul. He mentions reading the 30th-anniversary edition edited by Amy Newmark, differentiating it from the original editions authored by Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen. The hosts delve into the history of the book, highlighting its inception in 1993, rapid succession of sequels, and the expansion into niche markets with titles tailored for various audiences (e.g., Chicken Soup for the Baseball Lover’s Soul, Chicken Soup for the Nursing Soul).

Notable Quotes:

• Andrew (08:38): "The first one comes out in 1993 and then sells 11 million copies around the world, according to the website."
• Craig (11:04): "The whole series is checkout line impulse buys."

3. Sale of the Company and Diversification (12:10 - 25:16)

Andrew and Craig discuss the sale of Chicken Soup for the Soul to William Ruhanna Jr., detailing his controversial background, including his previous ventures and legal troubles. They explore how Ruhanna expanded the company into entertainment and pet food, noting the mixed success of these ventures. Despite failures like the Progresso soup drops and streaming services acquisitions (e.g., Crackle), the pet food segment thrives due to its emotional branding.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig (24:44): "Craige, I'm so glad that this book activated something in your research brain that you have just been on fire."
• Andrew (25:16): "They are selling pet food, which is doing pretty well."

4. Discussion of the 30th Anniversary Edition (39:35 - 56:19)

The hosts examine the 30th-anniversary edition, noting the inclusion of 30 additional stories from contemporary thought leaders like Deepak Chopra and Tony Robbins. They critique the book's content, citing specific stories that blend genuine emotion with what they perceive as exploitative “tragedy porn.” Craig shares his frustration with certain narratives that unintentionally place blame on individuals for systemic issues, undermining the book’s positive messages.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig (40:11): "He makes a list of his soulmate goals. He wrote 112 soulmate qualities that he wanted his soulmate to have."
• Andrew (56:20): "As far as I can tell, the Chicken Soup for the Soul franchise has never published a book called Chicken Soup for the Soul Mate, which seems like a missed opportunity."

5. Critical Analysis of the Book's Themes (56:19 - 85:57)

Andrew and Craig delve into a critical analysis of the book's overarching themes. They argue that Chicken Soup for the Soul perpetuates the Law of Attraction and individualistic success narratives, aligning it with other self-help literature like The Secret. This perspective, they contend, ignores systemic issues and places undue responsibility on individuals to overcome adversity without addressing broader societal failures.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig (81:31): "The parts that come away feeling good are like, yes, people are worth loving. You are worth loving. You can learn from bad experiences. The one that I mentioned earlier that I was like, I'm not sure if this is Chicken Soupy in a like comforting way, but there's a whole chapter about like when your parent gets ill and you become a caregiver."
• Andrew (80:43): "And it just says something bigger about, like, the health of the society that we're living in."

6. Community Feedback and "Glurges" (85:57 - 84:45)

The hosts share insights from their Patreon Discord community. They introduce the concept of “Glurges,” a term coined by Snopes to describe misleading inspirational stories often involving celebrities. This segment underscores the skepticism surrounding many of the narratives presented in self-help literature, highlighting the lack of factual basis and the propagating of unrealistic success myths.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig (84:16): "Snopes.com calls these kinds of stories Glurges and has a whole category just debunking these kinds of inspirational stories."
• Andrew (85:00): "Apparently I've heard the word glurge used mostly in reference to the output of AI chatbots."

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts (86:44 - End)

Andrew and Craig wrap up the episode by reflecting on their critiques of Chicken Soup for the Soul. They acknowledge that while some stories are heartwarming and offer genuine emotional value, the book's underlying messages can be problematic. They express hope that future readings, like Andrew’s upcoming exploration of Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle, will offer more substantial and less exploitative content.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig (88:27): "I do think it is in conversation with what we really didn't like about stuff like The Secret and a lot of this power of positive thinking stuff."
• Andrew (90:01): "Overdue Podcast.com is the Internet website. Up there we have the books that we have read and the ones that we are going to read so you can keep pace with us or just look through your back episodes."

Key Takeaways:

• Chicken Soup for the Soul originated as a collection of inspiring true stories and rapidly expanded into a vast franchise catering to diverse niches.
• The sale of the company led to diversification into ventures like pet food and entertainment, with mixed outcomes.
• The 30th-anniversary edition includes new stories from modern thought leaders, but the hosts criticize the book for promoting individualistic success narratives that neglect systemic issues.
• Community feedback highlights skepticism towards the veracity and intent behind many inspirational stories, labeling some as "Glurges."
• Despite their criticisms, Andrew and Craig acknowledge that the book contains valuable emotional narratives, though they urge listeners to approach it with discernment.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Craig (00:04): "We've got some news for you. News you can use and be enthusiastic about."
2. Andrew (08:38): "The first one comes out in 1993 and then sells 11 million copies around the world."
3. Craig (24:44): "I got just been on fire at the concept of Chicken Soup for the Soul entertainment."
4. Andrew (56:20): "The Chicken Soup for the Soul franchise has never published a book called Chicken Soup for the Soul Mate."
5. Craig (84:16): "Snopes.com calls these kinds of stories Glurges..."
6. Andrew (90:01): "Overdue Podcast.com is the Internet website..."

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For More Information:

• Website: OverduePodcast.com
• Patreon: patreon.com/overduepodcast

Next Episode Preview: Andrew and Craig announce their next book, The Jungle by Upton Sinclair, marking their first foray into muckraker literature. They express enthusiasm for exploring more substantive and reformist texts in future episodes.

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Episode 686, providing an insightful overview for those who haven’t listened while maintaining the engaging and critical tone of the hosts.

Transcript

[Andrew]

This is a headgun podcast.

[Craig]

Howdy everyone. It's Craig and Andrew. We've got some news for you. News you can use and be enthusiastic about.

[Andrew]

Oh, boy.

[Craig]

As you might know, we have a little patreon [e-mail] overdue podcast this year we're excited to try out some new stuff. We've got a newsletter. We're going to be doing monthly Q and A streams. Andrew, what are we doing?

[Andrew]

We're playing with some non book episode ideas. We did record 90 minutes on the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 movie and we're going to be playing with some other forms, other things, other media. We've also got what works and what doesn't.

[Craig]

Yeah, add free episodes of the podcast if you.

[Andrew]

Oh yeah, that too. Yep.

[Craig]

Want to skip over the break and just get right to the rest of the show? We've got that for you as well. And we've, we, of course we have the existing amazing Discord community. We've got early access to our long read project. You can plug your own stuff, but like we've got new stuff.

[Andrew]

Come on over. New stuff, yes. So read all about all the old and new [e-mail] overdue Pod your support, support helps the show go. And thank you so much for taking a look because I know you're gonna do it.

[Craig]

I dare you. Hey everybody. Welcome to Overdue. It's a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is Craig.

[Andrew]

My name is Andrew. Now, we are not a. We're not a breaking news. Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start with that.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Usually one of us reads a book and that we've never read before tells the other person about it and you, the audience, gets to come along for the ride. But today I got breaking news. Well, I'm going to drop you a link in the slack right there. So this, this week, Craig, what'd you read?

[Craig]

I read Chicken Soup for the soul by like 50 people. Jack. What's it, John?

[Andrew]

The two guys who wrote this one are Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen.

[Craig]

And I read.

[Andrew]

We'll talk about all the people involved in this elaborate the elaborate scheme that is this company.

[Craig]

I also I read the 30th anniversary edition edited by the editor in chief of Chicken Soup for the Soul books. Amy Newmark, I believe is her name.

[Andrew]

Yep. She was not involved with the original at all. She's the person who currently, yeah. Edits the series.

[Craig]

So that's what I read. But you have sent me a Link.

[Andrew]

I've sent you a link because you. Something in your brain is like stuck on actual soup. As like you know to do some like the new patreon [e-mail] every pod you're like, why don't I write about actual soup?

[Craig]

I'm thinking about it.

[Andrew]

So I sent you this press release from today as we record this January 16, 2025. No, this is from General Mills. Their brand Progresso, famous for their soups. Soup you can suck on. Introducing Progresso soup drops, the ultimate cold and flu season comfort. Craig, these are soup flavored cold lozenges.

[Craig]

Is that what they are?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

That's awful.

[Andrew]

It's not. It. See they look like bouillon, but they're soup lozenges. And listen, I've not, I've not tried one of these. I can only imagine they taste like salt and like menthol, which is, which is going to be pretty vile. But yeah, they, I mean it's. They're playing into the have soup when you have a cold thing. Just like the creators of this book were playing into like eat soup to make your health, to restore yourself, to soothe yourself.

[Craig]

I don't like the. I'm just reading through this copy that you've sent me. I don't like the phrase savory drops. I don't like. I don't like that they're trying to not just stop at the soup bowl. You can enjoy them anywhere in the carpool line. What? During a grocery. It's a carpool lane during a grocery run while folding. Just folding laundry in my basement, sucking on a soup drop.

[Andrew]

You know, really, really hungry for hard, hard soup.

[Craig]

General Mills makes the food the world loves.

[Andrew]

They say while mo. While most folks flock to the. I mean, we can't go on about this for too long lest it become a munch squad bit. But while most folks flock to the cough drop aisle at the first sign of a cold, Progresso is here to say, hold my spoon. Progresso soup drops deliver the classic hearty flavor of Progresso chicken noodle soup in a format that will definitely sue Prise fans.

[Craig]

Okay. Okay.

[Andrew]

It's a convenient hard candy drop reminding you of the comfort you can find in a bowl of Progresso soup. So there are a couple things in that paragraph that are kind of confusing. Like one implying that they're not going to be in the cough drop aisle. So like, are they actually like, are these candies or are these medicine?

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah. Stock up on anyway. You can suck on and feel supported. This cold and Flu season.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So I just wanted to.

[Craig]

Just wanted to thank you for sharing.

[Andrew]

Bring that to everyone. If anybody wants to know more, they can. You know, Ali Barzik at Adelman or [e-mail] which is the general press contact email.

[Craig]

I do think that there is a connection here. Aside from the soup. Aside from the it's soup in general one, which is. You've asked a question of like, what is soup? And I do. I. There are stories in this collection where I thought to myself, what about this is supposed to be chicken soup? Like, what about this is supposed to make me feel good?

[Andrew]

What's. What's soothing my soul? The way hot chicken soup soothes my throat.

[Craig]

And there is.

[Andrew]

When I have a cold.

[Craig]

We'll get to it. There's one story in particular where I think I made this note where it's not. It's not one of the more objectionable tales that I found because I found many of these tales objectionable.

[Andrew]

I There.

[Craig]

It's not one of the ones that like is the most kind of tragedy porn esque, which is a thing that is like, this book is rife with. But it is like kind of a here's what you do in a crappy situation essay that I didn't find. Like, it was not a welcoming broth. It was not. It didn't make me feel happy to be inside from the cold. It just was a thing I read and thought, well, that's an interesting point.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So here we are.

[Andrew]

Here we are. I have. Staring down the gaping maw of the chicken. Chicken Soup for the Soul.

[Craig]

So I want to ask you to tell me about the authors in just a second. But I do like, hold on.

[Andrew]

Well, I gotta. I gotta pop a soup drop in my.

[Craig]

Suck on that while you talk. I will say that I feel like there was a Chicken Soup for the Something soul book in my house when I was a kid. I don't think it was the original. I don't know if it was the Teenage soul or something else. I remember kind of leafing through it, but it kind of bounced off my brain like blaster bolts. Unable to hit Han Solo. Like, I just. I didn't make any sense, but I didn't get hit.

[Andrew]

Susanna said she had teenage Soul and she does remember several of the stories in it.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

But this was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I passed her as I was going down to get a podcast drink and she was going to bed.

[Craig]

I've done this before.

[Andrew]

So we didn't like, yeah, we didn't we didn't talk about it at length.

[Craig]

Okay. But you did not read any of these.

[Andrew]

I did not. I did not read any of these.

[Craig]

But we know it.

[Andrew]

We know it. And these. So the first one comes out in 1993 and then sells 11 million copies around the world, according to the website.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And then is followed up quickly through the mid to late 90s with, like, straight sequels. So the sequels to this are second helping, a second helping of Chicken Soup for the Soul, a third serving of, a fourth course of, a fifth portion of, and a sixth bowl of. And then also of course, the Chicken Soup for Little Souls reader, which is stories in a fun bedtime story format for kids.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

It sounds like a joke, but it isn't. It's real.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

But yeah. And. And then also they started coming out with all kinds of ones that were for, like, specific kinds of people. So I have a lot of titles here. I'm just going to read them all in one big, yeah, shot. Unless you have particular ones that you wanted to highlight.

[Craig]

I will just really say that I think in the introduction written by Jack Canfield, he cites, like, the first two that he remembers were Chicken Soup for the Women's Soul, based on, like, because they said they were soliciting stories from the readers. And so, like, a lot of these books would get. People would get published in these collections. And so they were getting a lot of submissions from women. So they made that a collection. And then they. I think he said his sister came up with the idea for Teenage Soul because maybe they had teenage readers or teenage submissions or whatever. But other than that, I just know that, like, they knew that a lot of women were buying these books. And if they knew that people were buying these books as gifts for, like. I know, I know about you superficially. Here's Chicken Soup for your Soul.

[Andrew]

Yep. So a lot of these titles are clearly meant to be like, I know one thing about you and I have to get you a gift for, like, an office gift spot or something. Like, there is a Chicken Soup for the Soul book for that. And you probably, honestly, probably wouldn't even have to put anything in them. Like, because the people, the recipients of the gifts are never going to actually open them and read them. They're just going to be like, oh, you know the thing about me. But here are some of. Here's some of the titles is not comprehensive, but this is titles in the Chicken Soup for the Blank Soul format. Okay. They have abandoned post, like, sale of the brand. But we'll talk about the sale of the brand in a second.

[Craig]

Okay?

[Andrew]

Okay. Chicken soup for the adopted soul.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

For the African American soul. For the African Americans woman's soul. For the baseball fan's soul. For the beach lover's soul. For the breast cancer survivor soul. The cancer survivor soul. The caregiver soul. Cat lovers, childs, coffee lovers, chiropractic Christian, Christian family, Canadian entrepreneurs, expectant mothers, fathers, father and daughters, father and sons, gardeners, girlfriends, golfers, grandmas, grieving soul. Horse lovers soul. Vroom, vroom. Craig. The NASCAR soul.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Nature lovers, nurses, parents, preteens, pet lovers, prisoners, recovering roping, romantic shoppers, singles, single parents, sisters, sports fans, tea lovers, teenage teachers, woman golfers, working woman's. And chicken Soup for the Soul at work. And then a personal favorite, Chicken soup for the soul of America.

[Craig]

Oh, no.

[Andrew]

Gotta be Joe Biden's favorite. Chicken soup for the soul.

[Craig]

But chicken soup, some of those get dangerously close to, like, the bizarre nouns that Spotify spits out in your raft. Now I like the AI generation. Chicken soup for the normcore pop princess soul. You know, Soup for the goblin head bonk soul.

[Andrew]

You can also get offshoot stuff like day planners. The Chicken Soup for the Soul cookbook. As of 2005, there are greeting cards and a syndicated better just be soup. There is a. Okay. There was a magazine. I can't figure out how long this ran. I can find via ebay and Google image search hard evidence of a fall 2005 Elvis issue with two COVID variants. A winter 2005 issue, February 2006 issue, and that's it. Contemporary coverage of the launch from the New York Times and Baltimore sun both end with people being like a lifestyle magazine in 2005. Really?

[Craig]

Yeah. Okay.

[Andrew]

Also on ebay, saw Chicken Soup for the Soul Word find books clearly intended to be checkout lane. Impulse buys.

[Craig]

Yep. The whole. The whole series. The whole series is checkout line. Impulse buys.

[Andrew]

Like, they.

[Craig]

There are interviews where they say, like, we were not trying to get into bookstores. We were trying to get into supermarkets. Like, that. They know that this is where their audience is. And that's. Yeah, I don't. I'm gonna have to. This episode. I'm gonna have to work. I think I did. I did not like this book.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

For reasons I will try to get into and not forget to, which does happen sometimes. But I don't want to, like, impugn people for having read this and, like, gotten something out of it. I think that there. If you go back and listen to our secret, the episode on the Secret, which is Relevant because of the Law of Attraction and all that nonsense. I do think that, like, there are times where we read some of this stuff and we're like, well, if it helped someone be a good person, like, I don't want to rob that from the reader who, who like turned it into something good. But I don't think that that is outweighed. I don't think that that outweighs like some of the wack stuff in this like, world of flim flam. Get rich quick people public, like creating an empire out of making you cry. You know what I mean?

[Andrew]

Yeah. And then this is. And this is gonna dovetail with our secret episode and our thinking Grow rich episode. Like basically every time we've done sort of a self help book. It's all kind of in this common lineage. So this first book, like we said, written by motivational speakers Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen from quote, inspiring true stories they had heard from their audience members. This. So I don't have a ton on either of their, like, biographies because a lot of their biographies are like dominated by them doing this franchise. But Canfield, I read this in a Business Insider piece by Amanda Chicago Lewis, which is hilarious and, and very informative. He says that he learned about the Law of Attraction from a boss of his insurance magnate, W. Clement Stone. So that's kind of the mindset that you need to be in for people who don't remember our the Secret episode. The Law of Attraction theory is a thing that basically says if you. You have to think, not just positive thoughts, you have to think about the thing that you want to make the thing that you want happen.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

The implication of that being if things are happening that you don't want, it's because you didn't think about them hard or good and good enough.

[Craig]

Both of these guys were born in the 40s. I don't know that Canfield was on particularly hard personal times. He was teaching in high school when he found his way.

[Andrew]

I think he did. He did grow up poor.

[Craig]

Yes. Okay. Yeah. And I think Hansen has kind of a similar background. His, you know, father was like a baker with a struggling business. And what I found in Hanson was that he was like, he paid for college with a band that he was in. He then got into geodesic domes, like, which then became very expensive to sell during the OPEC embargo because PVC was so expensive. And he was on really hard times. Times. And he like found a self help tape by Cavett Robert and zeroed in on it and like most self help guys, they hear about oneself. They. They hear from a self help guy about how to improve their lives. And the answer is always become a self help guy.

[Andrew]

Become a self help guy. Yep. So these two guys meet at a holistic health conference and become friends.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And then this is. I'm just going to read from the Business Insider piece for a bit because it sums it up better than I could paraphrase. The tale that Hansen and Canfield tell about their success follows the same structure as a Chicken Soup for the Soul story. Two outsiders have a brilliant idea. Heartwarming stories that illustrate the law of attraction. All the so called experts, the publishing companies in New York look down on them. They're rejected over and over 33 times if you asked in 1998, nearly 100 times if you asked in 2014, 144 times if you ask. Sure. And yet through tremendous will and perseverance, they somehow managed to bring their little book to the public. Not only reaping acclaim and huge financial rewards, but validating their unshakable belief in themselves. Now it is true that they could not get publishers for this book, but what they started doing was putting little commitment to buy slip on the chairs at their self help conferences that they were like hosting and speaking at. And so they build up all these little slips of paper with people who have come to these, these conferences and have agreed to buy the book. And they bring these to like some indie publisher in Florida.

[Craig]

Florida, yeah.

[Andrew]

Who prints the first run of 20,000 copies which they have already sold because they have commitment to buy things from people. And they, yeah, they then they turned around and sold those copies using all the sales techniques they learned as motivational speakers, requiring each audience member to buy multiple copies, say or selling copies at bakeries and mortuaries. 1994, a little over a year after the book came out, it became a bestseller.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

So that is, that is the seeds that grows into the Chicken Soup empire.

[Craig]

Canfield says that the words when he. When they were thinking about what to call it, they knew that they had 100 and they wanted 101 stories. Hansen said, not 70. Because quote, when I was a student ambassador in India, I learned that 101 is the number of completion. Okay, it's good to.

[Andrew]

I mean probably the, probably the 101 Dalmatians people knew that too also.

[Craig]

You're right.

[Andrew]

70 Dalmatians.

[Craig]

No, you gotta have 31 more.

[Andrew]

Gonna remember that.

[Craig]

Canfield says he had a dream in which the hand of God wrote Chicken soup on a chalkboard Mm. And that's how they arrived at Chicken Soup for the Soul.

[Andrew]

Sure. So they're writing all these books. Right. And the format. Chicken Soup for the Blank Soul is the format that they're using while these two guys own the company that Canfield and Hanson's names are on all of the books from this period. But starting in the mid-90s, you start to see other people credited. So, you know, I'm sure that they are being at some point. I would bet this is not based on any research or analysis of the prose, but I would bet these are being mostly ghostwritten by the time you hit the 2000s.

[Craig]

And in the edition that I have, almost every story has a different author credit. There's like a dozen of them.

[Andrew]

They're all supposed to be true stories that have been gathered from real people.

[Craig]

And many of them are other motivational speaker people. Many of them are kind of randos. There's one that's first heard by. And then it's like somebody else who's not even in the story.

[Andrew]

I heard that. I heard this. I heard tell of this one.

[Craig]

Yeah. I will say that there's a, like, maybe like a half dozen pretty outlandish tales in this book that I was able to like, find other tellings of.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

In newspapers now, maybe like, some of the things were not like, fully one to one, but, like, the people existed. So there is an. There is an interesting nugget there in that. Like, like a lot of self help stuff and motivational speaking stuff. There's usually some kernel of truth that is then like, you know, spun out or you've glossed over some, like, really big part that. My biggest sticking point with a lot of these stories, they kind of gloss over something systemic or gloss over some like, you know, real, real hardship in favor of a thing that is, like, narratively convenient. So.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So in 2005, footage of Canfield speaking is recorded for a little documentary you might have heard of called the Secret.

[Craig]

Oh.

[Andrew]

So there's a lot of overlap, like, obviously a lot of overlap with the theory behind these books. Like the Law of Attract, kind of undergirding both of them, but in terms of, like, brands. So the Secret hits in like the mid 2000s, 2005, 2006, and it is a even bigger success than the. The Chicken Soup stuff was. And it also takes a lot of, like, cultural fire. Like. Yeah. Absorbs a lot of the abuse that the Chicken Soup series kind of avoided. Like, the brand of the backlash to it. Yeah. Is more associated with sort of a woo, woo, like positivity kind of thing. So in 2007, 2008, Hansen is going through a very expensive divorce and Canfield claims just not to be feeling it anymore.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

And they sell the company to this guy. One of the buyers is named William Ruhanna Jr.

[Craig]

The husband of Amy Newmark.

[Andrew]

Yes. And his wife's the current. Yeah, his. Newmark is the current publisher and editor in chief of the book. She is the host of the Chicken Soup for the Soul podcast, which puts out three, like 10 to 15 minute episodes a week that I assume are mostly culled from various books.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

So this guy Ruhana is a, you see, he's an interesting, he's an interesting character, this guy. So they, they sell the company. Now Ruana owns it. Again from the Business Insider piece. At the time, Newmark was managing a hedge fund that invested in telecommunications company Ruhana had started called Windstar. Windstar raised billions of dollars on the stock market before going bankrupt in 2001. The man who bought it out of bankruptcy later called the purchase one of the worst business mistakes he'd ever made and told the Washington Post that Windstar had continued to charge customers after they canceled their service, apparently to convince Wall street investors the company was growing faster than it really was. Ruhana and Windstar's leadership later settled a class action lawsuit and a related case for $25 million that alleged they had engaged in covert practices designed to benefit themselves at the expense of the company and its investors. So the Chicken Soup for the Chicken Soup for the Soul company, after these people buy it, seems like the book side of it was and is still on good footing, like new. Newmark comes in and says, okay, I'm going to chop books from the lineup. There are like 30 of 180 books that they, they've, they've published it in 2008. She says, we're gonna, we're gonna chop the ones that don't like, conform to the 101 stories format. Also, we're gonna stop with the like Chicken Soup for the Golf Lovers soul thing. So all the Chicken Soup books that have come out since then have been titled something like Chicken Soup for the Soul colon ever. Best mom ever. A Book of miracles. Be the best you can be. There's one in 2014 that I like, Chicken Soup for the Soul. Colin the cat did what?

[Craig]

My God. I think there's one, I think one of the most recent one is like 101 ways to think Positive or some nonsense like that. Yeah, okay, sure.

[Andrew]

And I believe the company also is selling pet food. Yes, it sells pets. At time of acquisition, it sold pet food and the pet food was doing pretty well. And you can still buy chicken soup for the sole pet food for your dog and your cat. You can get dry and wet pet food for dogs and cats and also lots of different snacks. And some of them have chicken, but not all of them.

[Craig]

Andrew, I'm so glad that this book activated something in your research brain that you have just been on fire.

[Andrew]

I can't. I feel like my brain is melting out of my ears. But Ruhana sees this and he's like, oh, they do. They do books. They do, they do dog food. People have a positive relationship with this brand. Let's see what else I can squeeze in here. So in 2017, there's a new York Times piece that kind of notes the failures of the company over the last nine years. There was a movie that fell through. There was a line of literal soup that they tried to sell that Ruhana says. Ruhana says the soup failed because they were like contracting with like a white box generic soup manufacturer and the product wasn't good. Sure, but the pet food is all house. Why Chicken Soup for the Soul? Struggle to sell soup would seem baffling, says a New York Times piece. But the problem turned out to be a bad partnership. Mr. Ruhana said he worked with a company, Damon Worldwide, that made generic white label products. The soup sold well, but not well enough. When problems arose with the partner, Mr. Ruhana said he knew he could not continue the line on his own. I didn't have the capital or the expertise to fix it, he said. The pet. But the pet food which the company now produces itself is thriving. The pet food clearly succeeded because of their emotional message, which appeals to segment of dog owners who think of their animal as their child. Also, Edward M. Tauber, president of Brand Extension Research, the people don't eat the.

[Craig]

Dog food, so they don't know if it's good or bad.

[Andrew]

Yeah, but the. So the Chicken Soup for the Soul company is doing the books, they're doing the pet food. It's going pretty well. But there is another.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

In 2017, a subsidiary company called Chicken Soup for the Soul Entertainment goes public under something called Regulation A plus, which lets companies skip the hard part of an IPO where you have to like prove that you have a good company that can make money and you could just sell shares to anybody.

[Craig]

Yeah, because it's democracy financially.

[Andrew]

So they raised $30 million from this and Ruhana decides, what if I just Picked up a bunch of weird. Also ran video streaming services online.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So they require something called a media. They acquire Screen Media Ventures ll, which owns something called popcorn flicks.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

2019, they bought crackle Crackle, the big one.

[Craig]

Crackle is big.

[Andrew]

This, so that's a big one. But this is the one that I like the most. In April 2021, they acquired the catalog of Sonar Entertainment, which Craig gives them. Gives Chicken Soup for the Soul, the rights to most Laurel and Hardy movies and almost all of the Little Rascals.

[Craig]

No. What?

[Andrew]

This continues. In 2022, they acquired something called 1091 Pictures. And then they acquire Redbox.

[Craig]

Oh, yes.

[Andrew]

Which at the time. So Redbox, for those of you who don't remember, were these boxes that sat outside grocery stores that you could like, rent DVDs from.

[Craig]

When somebody stole my credit card in Chicago, they used it to use a red box before they went to a Buffalo Wild Wings.

[Andrew]

That guy was having a good night.

[Craig]

He was having a great time.

[Andrew]

Gonna go to BW3s and then watch Harold and Kumar. At the time, Redbox had $300 million of debt on the books. There's some weird, like, meme stock stuff around the red box purchase that I don't even really understand. Do you have a better grasp?

[Craig]

It had to do with, they had something to do with. They were putting the red box, like, stock super low because it was going to convert into chicken soup stocks. Like, somebody got wind that these, like, very low red box stocks were then going to convert and that's why people were picking them up. And so meme stonkers on Reddit were like, well, let's punish these people by driving up the, the red box price to try and short sell so that all these people that were like, acquiring it because it would be, because it was supposed to be low and then gain value. They were trying to make it so that all those shares would be high value and then lose value.

[Andrew]

And this is in that same wave of meme stocks as, like, GameStop, AMC, I think, like BlackBerry. There were a couple other, like, more minor meme stock companies.

[Craig]

Lockdown was still sort of happening. We were, we were, we're not normal now, but we were definitely not normal then. Nobody knew what we were doing.

[Andrew]

Did I. Have I ever told you that I spent, I spent a hundred dollars on AMC stock during the height of that fairly certain.

[Craig]

I made money on AMC stock? Yes.

[Andrew]

On ice. I, I, I chickened out and sold mine for like, roughly what I paid for it. I think I had held on If I had just put my phone away and forgotten about it for months and months, I couldn't. Could have made several hundred dollars for this.

[Craig]

But hey, listen, I was just like, listen, Diamond Hands.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Diamond Hands. I'm sitting. I'm sitting in my house. I don't have anything to do. It's apparently really easy to buy this app and just buy stuff.

[Craig]

I remember checking it in the grocery store. I hated that week of my life. Hated it.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, so they buy all these really dumb things that you can suit. For the sole Entertainment subsidiary. By April 1st of 2024, they are delisted from NASDAQ. And then by April 23rd, they have filed for bankruptcy. Like, ask for relief so they can pay their employees. New York Times reported in April 2024 that the subsidiary had debts of 7 of $970 million against assets of $414 million and owed millions to companies like Universal Studios, Sony Pict Studios Americas and Walgreens and Walmart, for some reason.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

So when this happened, 26,000 Redbox kiosks were shut down. The subsidiary had 1100 employees. I believe they were all laid off. All the, like, video streaming sites got shut down. I don't know if since then those have been like resold or resurrected or.

[Craig]

Anything, but what's his name got trounced in July, I think of 2024. Bru. Bruhanna.

[Andrew]

Bruhana. Yeah.

[Craig]

Yeah. He's still like listed in Amy's bio on the website there. Through Googling, I found a website for Chicken Soup for the Soul Entertainment that I couldn't find by going to it directly and like, found his bio on it. Still, this seems pretty recent that because like, he dissolved the board of directors and like, had done some bad financial stuff in addition to these bad decisions. So I don't believe he's with the company anymore. Or at least not with Chicken Soup for the Soul Entertainment.

[Andrew]

If I know, I don't. I don't know that Chicken Soup for the Soul Entertainment exists.

[Craig]

Yeah, fair enough.

[Andrew]

But if I, if I am Amy Newmark, I am like, please, please, honey, stay home. Please do not, please do not stink up my functioning business with whatever it is that you are trying to do. Yeah, but yeah, he's so. He's trying to get in on like the streaming video, like the wave of streaming video services that are ad supported just, just a couple of years before Netflix has that one bad quarter where they like lose subscribers for the first time ever or the first time in a long time and the bottom falls out and everybody realizes, oh, these have all been underpriced. Infinite growth is not possible. And there are way too many of them, which is why all streaming services are now instituting, like, three price hikes a year until the service is actually. Until they're actually charging for the service what it costs to run it. So whatever.

[Craig]

The last thing I will say.

[Andrew]

Okay, the last thing you will say.

[Craig]

Because before we take a break, because then I need to talk about the book.

[Andrew]

Can't believe this has. This hasn't even touched any of the book stuff. But what this weird company has been.

[Craig]

Doing, it is bananas that this company exists. Like, and. And it is such a pre. Internet company in. In the. In book form and pet food form that it is not surprising that it has not endured when it became an Internet company. But. But I did. Like, I'm reading this book where these two guys are, like, being motivational speakers and whatever, and I'm thinking, like, yeah, these guys are kind of snake oil guys. Like, what in there? One of their history is just kind of wet. What's kind of wacky in there? And like, nothing too much in Hanson's that I could find other than the geodesic dome stuff. I don't. I don't know the story of his divorce after 27 years, which is covered.

[Andrew]

In the book based on the Business Insider thing. Like, it sounded like he's a bit of an exaggerator. Yeah, it sounds like. Imagine Amanda Chicago Lewis, I think got to have, like, a lot of FaceTime with Canfield. And it's. Yeah, she mostly talked to Hanson on the phone, but, yeah, it's. I mean, it sounds like they're both their own kind of weirdo. But Hanson is definitely the kind of guy who you have to like, like, really stringently fact check every single thing that he tells you because he's either lying on purpose or he just doesn't remember it, or he's told the story so many times that it's been. Yeah. Like exaggerated and inflated until it does. You know, there's still like a kernel of truth in there, but it's been obscured by a bunch of subsequent fabrication.

[Craig]

The thing about Canfield I found, which is, like, just there's. The whole first section of this book. Book is about love and about how important love is.

[Andrew]

Sure. I mean, I. Yeah, sure.

[Craig]

Dude's been married three or four times. And like, listen, he's just got a.

[Andrew]

Lot of love to give Craig.

[Craig]

He left his first wife after having one child with her while she was pregnant with his second.

[Andrew]

Didn't the Jonathan Livingston Seagull guy also do that? I don't with these people.

[Craig]

Is that true? Because he's named something in this book.

[Andrew]

I, I, he either, I, he, at a bare minimum, he left his wife and they're like four kids or something.

[Craig]

Yes. As I recall, my notes say that Jack Canfield pulled a Billy Crudup. That's what I have in my notes.

[Andrew]

I don't understand that reference.

[Craig]

Oh, yeah, he left. Who did he leave? Mary Louise Parker for Claire Danes while she was pregnant. And that's why he got put in movie jail for a little bit, but.

[Andrew]

Got got exiled to the Morning show.

[Craig]

One of Canfield's sons wrote a memoir about his like, life with drug addiction and stuff. And I found a whole article about it and he mostly is like, yeah, my dad's kind of, I mean my dad are fine now, but like he ran out of my family and now I had problems, so.

[Andrew]

Well, if you got problems, guess what I got. I got a book series that you can turn to.

[Craig]

All right.

[Andrew]

Trouble times, man.

[Craig]

This book. All right, let's take a break. I could charge.

[Andrew]

We really have read for another. I know about Chicken Soup for the Soul stuff. This company's so wild.

[Craig]

We could have done like 10 minutes just on the pet food. To be clear. Let's take a quick.

[Andrew]

They have like peanut butter bites. They have one that's made with real duck. Craig.

[Craig]

They should be pairing with the Progresso people. Anyway.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

We'll see you on the other side after the break. I will tell you how this chicken soup tasted with my soul.

[Andrew]

Craig, I've got some Chicken Soup for the webmaster Soul to share with you today. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. You know about Squarespace Familiar.

[Craig]

But like the web is so it just changes every day.

[Andrew]

Andrew and I just, it's changing all the time. Squarespace is kind of a self help service in that it helps yourself make a good website and you don't need to know anything about websites.

[Craig]

Okay, tell me more.

[Andrew]

You can think good website and the law of attraction and also Squarespace will bring good website to you. They give you beautiful, beautiful templates, templates, drag and drop tools, 247 customer support, all kinds of other stuff that you need to make and maintain a good website without having to think about it all that much. We have a website on Squarespace. That's how much I think about like running updates on it. Very. I never think about it. None. Zero.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Here's some other things that we like about Squarespace. Apart from all the other stuff that we just said, there's design intelligence. Using two decades of industry leading design expertise, Squarespace helps you unlock your strongest creative potential with design intelligence. It empowers anyone to build a beautiful, more personalized website tailored to your unique needs and craft a bespoke digital identity to use across one's entire online presence. Also got SEO tools get discovered fast. With integrated SEO tools, every Squarespace website is optimized to be indexed with meta description, an auto generated sitemap and more. So you show up more often to more people in global search engine results. You can also sell hashtag content. Squarespace makes it easy to sell access to content on your websites like online courses, blogs, videos and memberships. Earn recurring revenue by gating your content behind a paywall. Simply set the price and choose whether to charge a one time fee or subscription for access. If any of this sounds good, you can go to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com overdue to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com overdue to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Craig]

Okay, Andrew, the soup.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Soup's on.

[Andrew]

Soup's on.

[Craig]

So this is a book that I read. It's the 30th anniversary. The original had 101 stories. This apparently has 30 additional stories from the best thought leaders in existence today, including Deepak Chopra, Eric Handler, Brad Melt, Zibby Owens, Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins gets like three stories in this book. I really dislike Tony Robbins.

[Andrew]

Is it in just the new section or in the old?

[Craig]

He gets at least one in the new and one in the old. He might get another one in the old, I just don't.

[Andrew]

He's still associated with the brand though. That's commitment.

[Craig]

Don't like his whole deal, people. His whole fire walking deal. Do you know, you know Tony Robbins?

[Andrew]

I know of him.

[Craig]

He is pseudoscience given human form. He's not worth.

[Andrew]

There are just so many people like this. It's 2025. There are so many guys who are. This guy. Yeah, like this. This guy is the predominant form of thought on the Internet right now.

[Craig]

Out there.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Craig]

So my overall takeaway from this book, like I think I alluded to earlier is that like, like I can see how you might read some of these stories and go, wow, that's kind of moving. I have one or two examples that I will share.

[Andrew]

Okay, move me. Move Me with how moved you were.

[Craig]

I was not very moved because I couldn't shake the, like the bootstrap capitalism of it.

[Andrew]

All of the same thing that we complain about in every other self help book that we do.

[Craig]

Yeah. Where it's like, you know, the first section. I think this is very clever that the fir. There are six sections of the book after the introduction where they tell you the story about where these came from and how every day they did five things to help the book succeed, including sending them to the O.J. jurors. And when Judge Ito talked about it, it got them on the news.

[Andrew]

Wait, really? Yeah, those people were busy. I know they had stuff they were doing.

[Craig]

It was a long trial. They needed some chicken soup for their souls, man.

[Andrew]

Chicken soup for the O.J. juror's soul. That's how specific some of these are getting.

[Craig]

But there are sections on love, learning to love yourself, on parenting, on learning live your dream, overcoming obstacles, and then eclectic wisdom. And the first section on love is like, there's weird stuff in here. There's like.

[Andrew]

Oh, you don't say.

[Craig]

There's fine stuff in here. And it kind of like, if. If this is what you think Chicken Soup for the Soul is like, I don't. I don't blame you for being like. Yeah, that kind of spoke to me at some point. Like, like. So there's like a story about.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I think. I think this happens with. The secret too is it's like the tightrope to walk when we talk about this stuff is. And you alluded to this earlier, is like, there's a lot of, I think, well intentioned stuff in here, but it's all tied to and undergirded by a worldview that I find repugnant.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

[Andrew]

So it would. So if. If you have managed to take something positive and helpful from this that has actually helped you. That's. That's amazing. But on balance, I don't think. I don't think it's great.

[Craig]

No.

[Andrew]

I don't think the message is great.

[Craig]

No. And so like, we've got stories in. I'm just gonna go through these sections, I guess. And.

[Andrew]

Yeah, so it's structured, what with like big subheadings and then a few stories.

[Craig]

Per subheading or many, many stories per subheading.

[Andrew]

There are seven.

[Craig]

There are seven subheadings. And there are many stories per.

[Andrew]

And are the 30 new ones just like interspersed?

[Craig]

They are all at the beginning of each section.

[Andrew]

Okay, okay.

[Craig]

And they are like bolded in the table of contents. So that, you know.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Just in case you've read it before and you don't want to waste your time.

[Craig]

You also can tell because those are the ones that mention the Internet. Like, sure, you know, like live space streamers appear at one point, you know, but like the first story in the whole book. And this is a new. This is one of the new ones is from a rabbi. This is like a classic, I think what we think of when we think of Chicken Soup for the Soul. It's called Remembering what Has Been Forgotten. It's about a guy's dad who dealt with Alzheimer's for 10 years and then finally passes away. And he is a rabbi going through the grief of his father passing. And he's not quite sure how to deal with it. He thought he would be better prepared than he was. And he is finding himself thinking about what it is for his dad to be gone. And then thinking, oh, what are the ways in which my dad is not gone? Like, what are the ways in which he lives through me? What are the ways in which I, like just by living my life, he is part of me. Whether it's like a rhetorical flourish I use in a speech or a writing or, you know, something that my son says or does that, like, reminds me of him. And the closing paragraph is, if I could put my ear to my own chest I know my father's heart still beats within. Memory is light illuminating and reminding me of so many things about my dad. Summoning each of us who mourn a love both gone and yet still present still warm and aglow Even when skies are gray when we remember nothing can take our sunshine away. That's a reference to Hank Williams song. I think that's mentioned earlier. But, like, there's nothing. I find nothing objectionable about that. If I was actively grieving especially, and I read that, I would probably be consoled or identify with it. You know, like, fine, wonderful, great. But then a few chapters later, there's a chapter called Soulmate that is written by Mark Victor Hansen. And it is about the soulmate that he wants to have now that his 27 years of marriage are over. Okay, and cool radio. He makes a list of his soulmate goals. He wrote 112 soulmate qualities that he wanted his soulmate to have.

[Andrew]

As far as I can tell, the Chicken Soup for the Soul franchise has never published a book called Chicken Soup for the Soul Mate, which seems like a missed opportunity.

[Craig]

So I'm going to send you, like, this list. It's the first 15 and then a Few later that I think think are funny. Okay, let me just make sure.

[Andrew]

Is this the thing you wanted me to read?

[Craig]

I think so, yes. I'm going to send them to you right now. I want you to just read. These are. Let me just give you the sentence ahead of time. Mark's desires in his future soulmate.

[Andrew]

Number one. Available. Number two. Master kisser slash lovingly tactile. That has an asterisk that I don't.

[Craig]

I don't know what that asterisk is about. I'm going to click on. It doesn't. It doesn't take me anywhere.

[Andrew]

I don't know what it is. Number three. Similar values. Number four. Has great personal strength. Five. User friendly. I want this person to have an easy to understand UI that I can really. That I can really interface with. 6. Elegant. 7. Intelligent. 8. Conservative personality.

[Craig]

I don't know what, I don't know what that means.

[Andrew]

9. Great lover. Seems like that kind overlaps with master kisser slash loving link tactile. Yeah, fine. 10. Adventure. 11. Lives in SoCal or willing to move here or we agree to another place.

[Craig]

Never Has a more 5th grade sentence been written.

[Andrew]

12. Well traveled and willing to travel. 13. Totally loves me and demonstrates it. I think that probably also that that overlaps with great lover and master kisser. I'm just read, I'm reading into the list. 14. Working on self mastery and spiritual mastery. 15. Likes my business.

[Craig]

Likes my business. Skip ahead.

[Andrew]

32. A smile. Just has to have one, I guess. 33. Clean, neat and smells good naturally, which is nothing. And 34. Inspires evermore love.

[Craig]

Evermore love.

[Andrew]

Evermore is one word. Inspires evermore love.

[Craig]

This goes on for 112 and the 112 is integrated.

[Andrew]

What, like racially?

[Craig]

No. Or like a business like my, like my various businesses. Like a vertical integration.

[Andrew]

She, I mean she's gotta like my business.

[Craig]

It's just like I can tell some of these. We were reading articles like this is the Most Blogs in 2006.

[Andrew]

This is the most unhinged dating profile I think I've ever.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's just like what this is.

[Andrew]

I gotta assume that. Sure. Because he hadn't been. He hadn't gone through a painful divorce in the original, but in this one he's like, listen, I'm putting out feelers. I'm eligible if you want to live in Southern California. Cool. Or we could agree to move to another place. I just, it has the feeling one of these, one of these numbers feels like it's gotta be no fat chicks or Something just really? You can't have 220 or whatever.

[Craig]

Hold on, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Where is it? There is one that's like vitally healthy, health oriented, slender and radiantly fit.

[Andrew]

Slender and ready. Radiantly fit.

[Craig]

But has a great personality.

[Andrew]

Yes. Right.

[Craig]

And user friendly, non smoker, non alcoholic, non alcoholic, non drug user.

[Andrew]

Like in O'Tools.

[Craig]

My career is second to her. What? That doesn't make any sense.

[Andrew]

I think he means that his career as a retired self help book author is second to work on her well being ness.

[Craig]

I could do a whole hour on this list. So that's like, okay, I can't.

[Andrew]

I can't get past user friendly. You can't talk about a woman with the same language that you would use for an MP3 player. Like, it's just not allowed. You can't do it.

[Craig]

I will concede that maybe he meant some of these to be humorous, but I bet some of the ones he did not are. And that's a problem.

[Andrew]

I see. Like, even the ones that are jokes, it's like it's a quote unquote joke. Yeah, it's like, I'm gonna be a little bit funny, but really I'm pretty serious about most of these, so.

[Craig]

One of the first non 30th anniversary update stories is about how one teacher's love made 200 young men at risk in Baltimore grow up to be lawyers, doctors, and businessmen.

[Andrew]

Okay, okay. The power of love. Jaime Escalante is.

[Craig]

Yes. The. The. One of the stories that is the, like chicken soupiest story for me is about this woman who comes to see her dad on his deathbed. He is clearly not well, and she puts his head on. Her head on his chest, and she can hear his heartbeat after, you know, he can't speak anymore, etc. Etc. She heard from within the man the beat of his heart. The heart where the music and the words had always lived. The heart beat on steadily, unconcerned about the damage to the rest of the body. And while she rested there, the magic happened. She heard what she needed to hear. His heart beat out. The words that his mouth could no longer say. I love you, I love you, I love you. Little girl, little girl, little girl. And she was comforted. That is like. That is what Chicken Soup for the Soul, when you think of it is, I think is like stories of grief or change or trauma that have this kind of like, you know, heartwarming ending that I think that's what they're selling when they're selling this Book. Yeah, not all of them are like this.

[Andrew]

I think it's, like. It definitely is. Okay, so thinking about the Secret coming out in the mid-2000s and getting a bunch of, like, negative, negative backlash to a bunch of the weird ideas in it, but also both books espousing kind of fundamentally similar ideas. Is it just that this book doesn't have a bunch of people talking about, like, I thought about checks instead of bills, and then checks suddenly started showing up. Like, is there just, like, no goofy, tautological stuff in this? Or, like, why do you think that people don't associate the bad stuff about the law of attraction with this book.

[Craig]

That happens later in the book? Like, that kind of like, there's a story.

[Andrew]

So it's, like, past where most people read probably.

[Craig]

I think that is probably part of it. Like, there. There are stories later in the book in the. What is it in the live your dream section where there's a whole story about this guy, this little boy, Tommy, who sells bumper stickers, like, about peace, like, kids want peace during the cold War, and he, like, sold some to Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev. This is a real kid. It did happen. Oh, it did.

[Andrew]

Oh, boy.

[Craig]

But it's like all the. You know. And at the end of the story, it's like, well, because he actually had get rich quick tapes from Mark Victor Hansen, which is how he became an expert on selling his bumper stickers. His name is Tommy Tighe, According to a 2017 article I read that I think is the same guy. He's a hipster Catholic podcaster.

[Andrew]

So nice.

[Craig]

You know, there are multiple versions of, like, inspirational guy living in his car and then started an international foundation. Stories. There is a lady. This. These are all in the later chapter, live your dream. There is a story about a Vietnamese baker called willing to pay the price. This man and his wife are living in their bakery shop in the mall because they cannot afford a real house. And they take showers in the bathroom because they are saving up for a proper house. And this isn't meant to be inspirational as opposed to damning of systems that this. I find. I have a note here that says, I find this story 50 inspirational at best. I do not want to take anything away from this man's accomplishments. Yeah, but that he was falsely imprisoned in North Vietnam and then, like, successfully made it to the United States and then had to live in a mall is not a great reflection of America, I would say.

[Andrew]

No, probably not. It's kind of giving me terminal, like, Tom Hanks is the terminal vibes.

[Craig]

A little bit. There's like a story about a Girl Scout who sells a bajillion cookies to take her mom on a trip and, like, even charms like a prison warden. I'm not sure what part of that is supposed to be chicken soupy for me. I'm not. I don't know. Multiple chapters. Start with things like. When we first read the following story, we had just begun teaching a course called the Million Dollar Forum, a course designed to teach people to accelerate their income up to levels of a million dollars a year or more. Stuff like that just, like, throws me off the whole project. Like, whatever else could be here that might be enjoyable or might teach me about how people live, like, just really sends me away from the book.

[Andrew]

It does, yeah.

[Craig]

Emotionally.

[Andrew]

One big thing about this kind of self help that. That bills itself as sort of spiritual and like, self improvement is the point that occurs in all of them where, where they turn to you and like, all right, let's talk about money. Let's talk about what you're. What you're really here for.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Financial success.

[Craig]

Yes. And it's like this guy turned his time into $5, and then he turned it into $100, and then yada, yada, yada, he was a millionaire.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's like that, that red. The, you know, the, the. The Legend of Zelda. Yes, the Legend of Zelda Fetch Quest. That is the red paperclip story.

[Craig]

Yes. You know that there's, like.

[Andrew]

You always get to the part where it's like, okay, what's in it for me? Me?

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Like, monetarily.

[Craig]

And there, There are also things that, like, I just don't really know how to feel about some of the real icky kind of tragedy stuff or like, people overcoming adversity stuff that is usually about, like, disability or things like that where, like, I just don't. I don't. I don't find it inspirational. I feel. I find it exploitative.

[Andrew]

Is that. Well, and what. What is the tone of those. Is it like, and this is how they learn to be more normal? Or what is it going?

[Craig]

Okay, so in the, in the section on love, which is again, the beginning of the book, there is a story called the Hugging Judge, which you might presume is a little weird.

[Andrew]

The worst Shel Silverstein book that I've ever read, by the way.

[Craig]

And it's like this judge who goes around hugging people. And people are on the news, they're like, I bet that person won't give you a hug. And he is that.

[Andrew]

Is that meant to be a play on hanging judge. It must be. Oh, no, that actually is kind of funny.

[Craig]

And, like, he's, like, doing Billy on the street, but giving out hugs. And then, like, at the end of it, he goes into, like, a mental institution, effectively.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And, like, sees people who have all sorts of capital P problems and, like, hugs a guy who then, you know, can't speak, but now he's, like, smiling, and no one's seen him smile in 20 years. And it's just like, I. I guess that was nice. I don't know that I feel good about this being here or reading it. It feels kind of mockish and like, it's gawking at, like, disadvantaged and marginalized folks. And then it's followed up with a story about a guy who's like, I love hugging people in the workplace. Everybody should get a hug. You gotta throw this book in the trash.

[Andrew]

I like consensual hugging in the workplace. You can't just do indiscriminate workplace hugging. That's against. That's against the rules. There's a couple as we record this. This. Yeah. Who knows what happens on Monday? But that's fair.

[Craig]

You're right. There's a couple stories in the, in the overcoming obstacles part of the book. One is about a real tennis player who overcame his. He didn't overcome. He learned to play tennis. Even though he has a disability that affects, you know, multiple limbs. And he becomes like, the first Division 1 tennis player to have a disability that severe. Okay, okay, fine. Overall, it has the aggregate effect of, like, you, person reading this book, who we presume has none of these problems, have no excuse for not being more successful than you are. Like that. That, to me, is what reads as exploitative.

[Andrew]

Like, you just, you just didn't want it as bad as this guy.

[Craig]

Yes. One of the books, one of the stories starts, what if at age 46, you were burned beyond recognition in a terrible motorcycle accident and then four years later, were paralyzed from the waist down in an airplane crash? Can you imagine yourself becoming a millionaire, a respected public speaker, a happy newlywed and a successful business person? Can you see yourself going whitewater rafting, skydiving, running for political office? W. Mitchell has done all these things and more after two horrible accidents. And you're like, I've got to say.

[Andrew]

After I had the motorcycle accident and the plane accident, I would be like, you know what? I'm not going on the whitewater rafting trip. I'm. I kind of gotta be done with, with these, these modes of transportation.

[Craig]

It's like, I don't. I. I don't want to take anything away from W. Mitchell and what he's gone through, but I don't like what this book is making me feel about him and myself.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

When it's. When it's throwing this at me. And then there's.

[Andrew]

It is very. It's like. It's. It's trying to be like, you. People. People are. People are so resilient, and they can overcome anything.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

But the subtext is always like, well, if these freaks can do it, then what's your excuse?

[Craig]

Yes. There's a story about a guy who lived his entire adult life, like, not being able to read, but he's, like, somehow had this successful business career, but it's starting to crumble underneath him.

[Andrew]

Oh, no. This is a story about me, isn't it?

[Craig]

He finally. He finally, like, at the library, encounters a lady who's willing to teach him to read. He's, like, 48 years old, and then he stands up in front of a bunch of these other CEOs, and he's like, illiteracy is slavery. And I'm like, okay, I do. I like your passions.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that does whip. Yeah.

[Craig]

And I respect your drive to learn to read.

[Andrew]

Literacy is a thing that a lot of people take for granted.

[Craig]

But then there's also, like, the. The other version of the Overcoming Obstacle stories is like, here's a list of famous people that had someone in their life say, you're trash, like Beethoven or Tennessee Williams or the guy who wrote Jonathan Livingston Seagull. And it's. All of it feels. I would see a. I might see a boomer posted on Facebook. Like, it's like. It is.

[Andrew]

Is.

[Craig]

It is tropey now as, like, kind of social media pablum of, you know, here's an inspirational block quote. That's the. That's. Some of these stories kind of are not structured as narratives, and they're just kind of lists like this, and that's where they're at their worst.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

All right. What? There's a. Okay.

[Andrew]

So, like. Okay, okay. Tell me. Tell me about a couple more individual stories that hit you in a specific way. And I don't know if you want to talk about, like, the. The book's project or just, like, how it made you feel while you were reading it or, like, what you think the. The appeal of the. I mean, we've already talked about the appeal of the franchise a little bit, but, like, I. I don't know if you have, like, an overarching take that we haven't already hit.

[Craig]

But maybe I. Maybe I gotta find.

[Andrew]

We gotta find a way to, to land this plane so I can get. Get back to figuring out how I'm gonna buy soup drops.

[Craig]

Okay. There. Let me, Let me share a few things I like if I can. If I can find them in my notes.

[Andrew]

Oh, okay.

[Craig]

And then I'll go back to a few things that I found kind of weird or objectionable. Okay. There's a story. What is it called? I don't know. My notes just say, I like the starfish guy. There's a story about, like, making an. Making an impact on the world. Like one decision at a time. Time. And it's a guy walking down the beach and every time he sees like a beached starfish, he just throws it in the ocean. And like some guy runs up to him and it's like, what are you doing? That's not like your. Feels like you're wasting your time. There's so many starfish like that. Like, how will you ever. Like you're not gonna save all the starfish.

[Andrew]

Like, what are you doing?

[Craig]

And the starfish guy goes. The starfish guy goes, well, that starfish seemed to like it. And then like walks on and keeps chucking starfish back in the ocean. No, I like starfish guy.

[Andrew]

I like starfish guy. The extent to which I would never go up to anyone on the beach ever and ask anything about what they were doing is like, I cannot convey to you enough how little I want to talk with anyone at the beach who I did not go to the beach with.

[Craig]

There is a story about a guy. I don't know what I. I don't know why the setup to this story is so long, but this. But the story is that a guy went to a Sizzler, a restaurant. Rip in peace. The Sizzler.

[Andrew]

Oh, man. What happened to the Sizzler?

[Craig]

I. I don't know. I went to. We had a Sizzler in King of Prussia that I went to a bunch as a kid. And I feel like they, they got got before I was even in college.

[Andrew]

Sizzler USA Restaurants Incorporated, doing business as Sizzler is a United States based restaurant. Present tense.

[Craig]

Where. Where can I sizzle?

[Andrew]

I'm gonna figure out where Sizzlers exist.

[Craig]

Okay, While you're figuring that out, I will.

[Andrew]

Sizzler.com is find a Sizzler, please. It is a west coast and sort of like you can find some in the Sunbelt, like Idaho, Utah has Sizzlers.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Arizona has some Sizzlers.

[Craig]

But mostly.

[Andrew]

Mostly Southern California and then kind of up the. Up the West Coast.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

It doesn't. They don't make it as far as Portland.

[Craig]

All right, well, I will put that on my list when I eventually make it to the West Coast.

[Andrew]

It's a business expense now because you mentioned it on the podcast.

[Craig]

There are. I don't know why this man is hanging out with multiple Buddhist monks, but he goes to a Sizzler with them and he's like, nervous about what he's gonna eat in front of these Buddhist monks. That. He's sure, like, respect all life and whatever. So he's like, I gotta eat only vegetables. I gotta make sure it's vegan. And the. The Buddhist monks start eating a steak. They're all eating beefsteak.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And he's like, what's the deal with the. Why are you eating red meat Buddhist monks? And they go, they go, well, we're not Buddha yet. And it's this, like, story about, like, listen, you're not perfect. It's okay. I like that. I like that. That was kind of fun. There's a story about a cellist that. This was kind of like, this is not funny. This was just like, hey, like, you can get in a mindset about, like, practicing an instrument and making music where you're like, oh, I'm learning how to play the cello versus I play the cello. And he's like, I'm a professional cellist and I am always learning how to play the cello. That's just. Some of these literally are like a paragraph long. And like, those kind of work a little bit better for me than the ones that are these kind of like, longer pablum narratives. There is a funny one where it's called the Perfect American Family, I think. And this dad's kid comes up to him and it's like, hey, like, what? So, like, when all the people die, like, what's gonna happen? Like some kind of, like, you know, six year old question about death. Death. And the dad is like, oh, that's a big question, bud. And the kid asks it again, and you get a few paragraphs of this guy being like, well, I don't know, man. Like, what should I tell my son? This feels like a really high stakes moment. We haven't talked this out yet. I don't know what to tell him. I don't want to shake his. I don't want to both form or shake his belief system this early. And, like, as he starts to formulate an answer, his kid's just like, hey, can we just go play video games?

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And he, like, kind of learns a lesson about the big questions and his child. In that moment, I thought that was kind of fun. And is there anything else in the back half of the book that I actually liked? There was a parable about. There was a parable about two seeds in the ground. One of them is very excited to spread its roots and open up its flower to the world. It doesn't know what's going to happen, but it is excited for the next part of its life. And there's another seed who's in the dirt who goes, I'm scared to send out my roots. And I'm scared because what if a kid picks my flower? I'm going to stay a seed. And then a bird eats the seed that's still in the ground. It's not a flower yet because it's just a seed. So the lesson is, you know, don't be afraid to grow.

[Andrew]

Andrew, I feel like an hour and eight minutes in, we can finally talk about kind of the. If you don't listen to the podcast, if Books could kill.

[Craig]

Yeah, sure.

[Andrew]

A primer is they read a lot of these self help books and have a theory that it is all one book.

[Craig]

It is all one book because it.

[Andrew]

All ultimately gets back to the same thing. And so we've established that Chicken Soup for the Soul and the Secret are part of the one book book.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And then this parable is very basically, who Moved my Cheese? Yeah, I'm very mad at them for doing who Moved My Cheese? Because I wanted to do it on our show, but I feel like we have to wait a respectful amount of.

[Craig]

Time until the cheese has become moldy and then we can.

[Andrew]

Yes. Until someone has moved and still someone has moved the cheese. And then we can do it.

[Craig]

There are multiple stories in this. Okay, so now I'm going back to stuff that I found, like, kind of weird.

[Andrew]

Like, did your so you just. Just to ask a question about something?

[Craig]

Yeah, please.

[Andrew]

About finding a story you actually like from the back half of the book? Is it just that the back half of the book is more about subjects that remind you of how exploitative it all is? Or is it that the whole thing was kind of fricasseeing your brain as you read it and you just were out of patience by the end? Or what's the, what's the arc of your. What's the arc of your.

[Craig]

Great question. Yeah, no, that's a great question. I. There's. There's stuff in the first section on love that I have not talked about yet that I did not like at all.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

There is stuff in the Learning to Love section, which is the second chapter, that is, like, basically fine. That's where the monks all eat Sizzler. That's where we are all. A golden Buddha hidden under clay. You know, 10 rules for being human. There's. The next one is on parenting. And most of those I thought were, like, fine in general. Like, the On Parenting and On Learning section, with one major exception that I'll talk about in a second.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Are really about, like, hey, children are here to teach you about yourself and about the world. We should not be overly prescriptive with what. With what we teach children. There's a lot of stuff in. On the learn in the. In the On Learning section that is like, teach the child, not the subject. And the best version of that is like, teach the kid to paint, not what to paint. Like, that's kind of like, a really interesting thing that I agree with.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

There are some little stories in that section that I think are a little vague enough that because my hackles are already up about the book in general. I could see people who have maybe political or social values I don't agree with. Like, reading this and feeling like it allows them to go do what they do with children. Like, to teach them, like, oh, okay. To, like, teach them about the world in a way that I think is. Is, like, factually incorrect, you know? And so, like. But by and large, I think, like, that part is mostly fine, with one exception. And then after that, it's like, live your dream. Here's Tony Robbins. Sell your bumper sticker to Mikhail Gorbachev. Overcoming obstacles, tragedy, porn. Eclectic Wisdom. The big story in Eclectic Wisdom is we've all heard the expression, remember to stop and smell the roses. Here's a story about two blind people who crossed the street. Wasn't it so brave that they crossed the street and all of us in our cars, our death machines, decided not to run them over because we were so amazed that there were two blind people walking down the street. I hated that story. It was really whack.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Because it, like, ends with, like, wouldn't it suck to be blind? And you're like, I mean, yeah, but, like, you also just spent a page telling me about how you were amazed that no one in their car ran them over. Like, maybe. Maybe make a walkway that they don't have to risk being run over. But there's stuff in the first section, Andrew.

[Andrew]

Okay, this is the love the love section. Okay. And this is apart from the hugging judge. Well, the hugging judge and then also the long list of, of cool, cool girlfriend qualities.

[Craig]

Yeah. Okay. Has a skirt, has a long jacket. There's one that. There's two who you are makes a difference and a simple gesture. Both of these stories end with someone either like saying I love you or like saying something nice to someone or helping them. And the other person, a character heretofore undeveloped, saying that were it not for that simple act of kindness, they would have, they were, they would have ended their life today.

[Andrew]

Whoa.

[Craig]

And it is like a real. The listener that is like recoiling from this at the moment. Like that is the effect of reading the book where you're like, I mean, I guess that's a thing you could tell me.

[Andrew]

I was expecting it to be more of an It's a Wonderful Life thing where she doesn't marry George Bailey and so she becomes an old maid who works at the library and wears classes. Which is the worst a fate worse than death?

[Craig]

It is a fate worse than death, you're right. But no, there's like a few of those stories sprinkled throughout that like just feel really heavy handed and feel like you are reaching for the most, like literally violent version of. You never know what people are dealing with. You should be a good person. And I don't disagree with that as a way to live your life, but it just is like, it's kind of weird to read. There's a story called Amy Graham where Mark Victor Hansen says that he basically like, like prayer healed a girl who had like severe illnesses and was probably going to die. And then like in a big group of people, they all gave her healing energy and then she got better. Don't like that. Not a fan of that story. And then in the on learning section, there's a story about kind of a. I don't know if it's like a big brother, big sister, like volunteer or something who like takes a kid to a Baltimore Orioles game. And then there's a cute little girl who doesn't know how to say I'm happy. She instead says, I'm happiness. And you're like. All kids say the darndest things.

[Andrew]

They do say the darndest things, famously.

[Craig]

And then the next chapter is about Sandy Hook.

[Andrew]

What?

[Craig]

And the author. What?

[Andrew]

What about Sandy Hook, Craig?

[Craig]

And the author says, well, well, following this terrible tragedy, I was one of the folks who met with family members and taught them tapping, AKA emotional freedom technique, which is at best a pseudoscience that can be beneficial when paired with actual therapeutic science to help them heal after their trauma. It is a placebo, pseudoscientific riff on acupuncture and can be paired with actual therapeutic techniques. And then it ends with this paragraph that just really infuriates me. I know nobody here in the community will ever forget that fateful day, but it's my hope, my expectation that each person here and around the world can take that tragedy and use it to remember, to love more, to forgive, to heal. It's only with that approach and that intention that we can create a world where this never happens again. Again. No, that's not the only way that.

[Andrew]

We can do that. No, that's not how you do it.

[Craig]

That's not. No. You need, like, a strong, robust ban on assault weapons as well as mental health resources for people who need them.

[Andrew]

And also, like, six or seven guards at every school.

[Craig]

That's another thing you could do. I'm not a huge fan of that.

[Andrew]

But because, Craig, they're soft targets, and we just have to protect.

[Craig]

It's like, that's the stuff. Like, that was one of the ones in this book that was just like, I don't like the book. I don't like it.

[Andrew]

Yep. Yep.

[Craig]

I don't need you. I don't need you to brag about how you did pseudoscience on a bunch of grieving parents. I don't even know if that really happened. But. But it. That dovetails with the. And this can maybe be our closing section here. I do have some notes from our Discord community that I want to share, but sure.

[Andrew]

I just like to close the Sandy Hook section of the.

[Craig]

Huh.

[Andrew]

The first time Henry came home from preschool and, like, I learned that there had been a lockdown drill, and then I realized what that was a euphemism for, which is active shooter drill. That. That sucked. I hated that. And I mean, it's. I think today, on this particular Monday, where nothing. Nothing of note is happening.

[Craig]

Nothing.

[Andrew]

We're trying mostly to be positive and have a little bit of fun, but, like, it's within living memory that it was not like this.

[Craig]

Correct? Yep. Yep.

[Andrew]

And it is so frustrating to me to talk to my own parents and be like, remember when I was a child that you were literally raising and it was not like this, and can we not draw lines between some things here and to just have settled on. Well, I guess every school needs to have some cop and a metal detector and clear backpacks and all this. We have to do all of this.

[Craig]

Rather than the upstream thing.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Or even, like, trying an upstream thing. Like, it's all just gotta be like, well, this is just the way the world incontrovertibly is. It's just nature that everybody has hot metal killing machines in their. In their homes at all times.

[Craig]

This is a story that was added, I'm fairly certain, because obviously Sandy. Sandy Hook had not happened in 1993.

[Andrew]

No.

[Craig]

So that also can, like, point you towards the worldview of some of the folks who are contributing to this enterprise.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I don't think that they are all, like.

[Craig]

I don't mean to say that, like, the person who shared this story is, like, you know, advocating for evil things to continue.

[Andrew]

No. And maybe this is too far afield from the book and we just end up cutting it or something. It's just like. It is something I can't let myself think about, or I get so incandescently angry that I cannot function. And there's gonna be a lot of, like, figuring out how to balance those two impulses over the next few years.

[Craig]

The reason I wanted to talk about it is because I do think it is in conversation with what we really didn't like about stuff like the Secret and a lot of this power of positive thinking stuff, which it does not account for large systemic failures. It puts all of the blame on individuals because it attributes all the success to individuals. So naturally, if something bad is happening to you, it's your fault or you are not learning the right lesson from the bad thing that's happened to you. And that is really what this chapter in this book is about, is that, like. Like, now all these people who are grieving are, like, you know, like, processing it better and learning to love and, like, heal and, like, isn't that wonderful? And it's like, yeah. I want those people to be able to live their lives in a way that is healthy, as healthy as possible. I also want the thing to not have happened to them.

[Andrew]

Right. And it just says something bigger about, like, the health of the society that we're living in. That. The sort of rise of this. This genre and the prevalence of this mindset is coinciding with a. Like, a societal inability to recognize and implement, like, change that addresses structural problems. Like, we. Yeah. Like, as. As people who run society become less able to, like, address problems within the society, then, okay, we all have to, like, it's every person for themselves. We all just have to, like, turn in and find the reasons why it's our fault and do what we can to address it. Ourselves because that's all we can. That's all we've got.

[Craig]

And I think that's why I found I. I was so unmoved by the like inspirational parts of this book where it's like, look at this person who had incredible hardship and they quote unquote, overcame it. I just don't. There. There are other portions of this book that undercut that for me and I don't. So I don't come away feeling good about that. The parts that come away feeling good are like, yeah, people are worth loving. You are worth loving. You can learn from bad experiences. The one that I mentioned earlier that I was like, I'm not sure if this is Chicken Soupy in a like comforting way, but there's a whole chapter about like when your parent gets ill and you become a caregiver. Here are the things you need to be thinking about. I thought that was really interesting. There are a couple paragraphs in there about like how this impacts people in their jobs and stuff like that. And that was all interesting writing. I did not find it particularly inspirational or comforting, but I did find it of value. So maybe that's chicken soup of the value, I suppose. Value chicken soup, I suppose. Okay.

[Andrew]

I mean that sounds like a kind of stackout that you would find it acme or something.

[Craig]

But that's. I don't know. Like there's enough stuff in this book that I think to your point, like maybe not everybody read as far the way in or maybe not everybody was reading into the self helpiness of it. That is clearly undergirding the book structurally and in the subtext of it, if not in the actual text. So a few quotes from our. From our Patreon Discord community if you want to join us. Patreon.com overdue pod Nora says it was cool among middle school girls in the late 90s, one of my friend group convinced her mom to buy a copy. My mom refused and we would pass it around and brag about how late we stayed up reading it and how much we cried. Too young to recognize tragedy porn, I guess. June said. Also read a lot in the early 2000s, I was in elementary school. I think the stories gave me a taste of more mature narrative voices and storytelling without getting into anything explicit or super detailed in ways that might have been beyond me at the time. I do think that that is like if these books were in your house and people are like, these are good books to read about feeling good about the world or something or like life lessons you might stumble upon them as a kid who likes to read. But it's not like a story. So it's not like you're reading. You're not reading an adult book that's out of your depth or something like that. It's an interesting perspective.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

And then Jason shared. Snopes.com calls these kinds of stories Glurges and has a whole category just debunking these kinds of inspirational stories that have little to no basis in fact, usually involving a celebrity. Carrie shared that from Wikipedia. Glurges are so named because they are imitative of the retching that might be induced by stories of this kind. It comes from the Snopes forums from years ago.

[Andrew]

Apparently I've heard the word glurge used mostly in reference to the output of AI chatbots.

[Craig]

Oh sure, yeah.

[Andrew]

Not that humans can't produce Glurge. It's just that it's all that AI chatbots can do.

[Craig]

There is an example. I did find a post on Snopes about Glurges and it shares this like, like parable about Bill Gates going to a restaurant with his son. And his son tips the waiter $500 and Bill Gates tips him $5 and the waiter's like, what's the deal, Bill Gates? And he's like, well, my son's the son of Bill Gates, but I'm the son of like whatever Bill Gates his dad did. And so he's like, you don't, don't change. Like live. You remember your history. And it doesn't. A, it doesn't make any sense sense. And that doesn't. And it doesn't actually make Bill Gates look good. And B, the Snopes is like people were attributing this to like Carnegie like a hundred years ago. Like this is not a real story.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no.

[Craig]

And the lesson is bad anyway.

[Andrew]

So the lesson is just like, well, rich people, as long as they built themselves up from, from nothing, it's cool that they're bad.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Still.

[Craig]

So that's Chicken Soup for the Soul. I bet that if you dig into the. More. It's interesting reading this one because it doesn't have the same user generated content. So maybe in some of the like we cast around for entries from people who read these books, there's less of the self help capitalist stuff in the DNA of it. So maybe if folks are listening to me kind of really slag on this book and they're like, but I had a great time reading Chicken Soup for the Knitter's Soul or Chicken Soup for The Baseball Lover Soul. Like maybe you did. Maybe those stories weren't as bad as these were possible.

[Andrew]

Well, I'm gonna assume that like Soup for the Coffee Lover Soul has less stuff about like how to address society's ills and.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah, it's very possible. So that, that's my experience. I did not eat any chicken soup this week. I had turkey chili a few times, leftovers for lunch. It was pretty good. I didn't eat any of those Progresso Dumpo lozenges.

[Andrew]

So I've been. I've been looking at. I've been looking at the lozenges, Craig.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

The limited edition Progresso Soup drop are available exclusively at progressosoupdrops.com starting on Thursday, January 16th at 9:00am Eastern with additional quantities released every Thursday for the rest of National Soup Month while supplies last. Which is two more. Two more Thursdays. Okay, so at 9am I'm gonna set a calendar reminder for myself at 9am on January 23rd. This is a busy day for me already, but I'm gonna get on progressivesoupdrops.com and buy some soup drops.

[Craig]

Okay. I can't promise that I could endure one for more than three seconds, but if you bought them, we could find out.

[Andrew]

I'm just. I'm just saying what I intend to do and it doesn't have to have anything to do with you listen.

[Craig]

Fair enough. Thanks for listening me tell you about all this super soup. Andrew. I do appreciate your brain becoming on fire at the concept of Chicken Soup for the Soul entertainment.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And I hope that our listeners have had a good time hearing me complain about this.

[Andrew]

It's fun for you to be the one who doesn't like something.

[Craig]

I was thinking about that.

[Andrew]

Usually I'm like, I'm. I'm the one who does that. To the extent that it is a category in the fan made awards show that our discord runs every year.

[Craig]

And I just. I just feel like sometimes I, you know, this is a book that is particularly rubbing against in slash, negative, slash uncomplimentary, like my now radicalized brain that Maybe even like 5 years ago I wouldn't have been so mad at this book. I don't know, maybe I would have. Maybe it was always worth being mad at. But here I am today mad at the book. So if you have a history, you, the listener, have a history with the Chicken Soup series you want to share again, I don't begrudge you it making you feel good or having a good cry. I just think some of these Stories were not enjoyable for me to read here in 2025. Send us an email overdupadmail.com hit us up on social media. We're using a few of them. If they still stand verdupod, find us on Blue Sky.

[Andrew]

Blue Sky's the main one.

[Craig]

Blue Sky. Just go there. We'll keep posting there. Hi Sven, Sue, Cat, Linda and Robert and many more who reached out in the last week or so. And our theme song. Ooh, our theme song composed by Nick Larando. Andrew, if folks want to know more about the show, where do they go?

[Andrew]

Overdue Podcast.com is the Internet website. Up there we have the books that we have read and the ones that we are going to read so you can keep pace with us or just look through your back episodes. We've also got links to the social things that Craig mentioned and to plug our Patreon one more time. Patreon.com overduepod Get AD FREE versions of the show. Get access to bonus episodes early. Join us for some streams. Join our Discord community. All kinds of stuff, stuff that you can do. And yeah, we made changes a couple weeks ago and people have responded pretty positively, which we're happy about. And we're going to keep trying new things and seeing what works and just generally trying to make more things that hit better and are more consistent than some of the tiers that we've offered there in the past.

[Craig]

In the most recent newsletter, Andrew talked about the wizard of Oz and I talked about goose books.

[Andrew]

Uh huh.

[Craig]

Just trying to wet people.

[Andrew]

I don't know if that's the sales pitch that I would go with.

[Craig]

Just trying to wet people's whistle.

[Andrew]

Yes. Well, we were already having fun outlining and getting the next month's newsletter ready. So I think this will be a thing that we are that is more creatively fulfilling for us and also more fun to read for you. So again, patreon.comoverduposs to get that stuff. Your support means the world. If you can't support us financially, that also is fine. But for the people who can and do, thank you very much.

[Craig]

Yep. Andrew, what are you reading next week for this podcast?

[Andrew]

That is an amazing question. I am reading. Oh yes, the Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Another uplifting.

[Craig]

I think our first, maybe our first Muckraker book. Like our first. I was trying to think if we had covered a real like reformist text. Yeah, I mean it was kind of striking out. So I'm excited to talk about it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I am. I am too. In, in my way. All right, everybody, until we explore the jungle with you next week, please try to be happy.