Sit Me Baby One More Time Ep 07 - Jessi's Secret Language (The Baby-sitters Club #16)

Summary

Overdue Podcast: "Sit Me Baby One More Time" Ep 07

Book: Jessi's Secret Language (The Baby-sitters Club #16)
Release Date: January 23, 2026
Hosts: Andrew and Craig

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Overdue’s Baby-sitters Club miniseries, Andrew and Craig dive into Book #16, Jessi’s Secret Language by Ann M. Martin. The episode explores representation of hearing-impaired characters, the nuances of American Sign Language (ASL), and the intersectionality of Jessi's experiences as one of the only Black girls in Stoneybrook. The hosts bring humor, nostalgia, and insightful commentary to Martin's 1988 novel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Series and Miniseries Context [04:45–08:10]

• The show “Sit Me Baby One More Time” moves through the BSC series, spotlighting new members.
• Jessi, introduced after Mallory, is the focus of Book #16.
• The hosts mention they skipped Book #15 (Little Miss Stoneybrook…and Dawn), summarizing its subplot for continuity.
• Quote:

  "We're still only two books later, we're still in the first year of the perpetual eighth grade." – Andrew [06:39]

2. Jessi and Representation [11:57–12:25]

• Jessi is from one of the only Black families in the area; this theme returns throughout the book.

• She’s also younger than most club members, in the sixth grade with Mallory.

• The book centers on inclusivity, both in terms of race and disability.

• Quote:

  “My family is Black. I know it sounds funny to announce it like that. If we were white, I wouldn’t have to, because you’d probably assume we were white. But when you’re a minority, things are different.” – Jessi (quoted by Craig), [21:50]

3. On Deaf Characters & Sign Language [12:25–19:45]

• Martin was inspired by deaf readers; Matt Braddock, a young deaf boy, is introduced.

• Discussion about outdated terminology in the book: “Amslan/Amazon” used instead of ASL.

• The book presents the Braddocks’ choice to emphasize sign language over lip reading, highlighting the societal expectation for deaf people to adapt.

• Hosts appreciate the book’s respectful, informative ASL depiction.

• Quote:

  “It’s a neat thing... lots of words are like, you take the finger sign for the letter, and then you do something with it...” – Andrew [17:00–17:58]

4. Exploring Inclusion & Intersectionality [19:45–22:36]

• The club’s reaction to Matt is compassionate and curious, not hesitant.

• Various characters—Haley, Matt’s sister; Jessi; Christy—share conversations about feeling different, reinforcing the book’s intersectional themes.

• The book does not create a single “villain” but shows social and systemic challenges.

• Quote:

  “Martin is generally just really... patient with all these characters and gives them room... we, the reader, just kind of get to see, like, a spectrum of human experience, which is like one of the better ways to represent disability.” – Craig [18:41]

5. Babysitting Plots & Cross-Family Adventures [23:57–38:50]

• Jessi babysits for Matt and Haley, quickly immersing herself in learning ASL.

• The club’s monopoly on babysitting leads to ample opportunities for cross-pollination between families.

• A subplot with bratty Jenny (Prissy Pants) illustrates negative reactions to difference, but most kids respond positively.

• Haley’s complex feelings about being Matt’s sister are sensitively explored.

• Quote:

  “Having a brother like Matt really stinks. It’s so horrible. People think Matt’s weird, but he isn’t. Deaf is not weird.” – Haley (quoted by Craig) [33:14]

6. Ballet School Storyline [25:14–31:15]

• Jessi’s ballet commitments (Coppélia) intersect with her club duties and feelings of imposter syndrome.

• Rivalry with Katie Beth evolves into a moment of connection through ASL—the ballet “mean girl” turns out to have a deaf sister.

• Jessi’s family is shown as supportive, pragmatic, and loving.

• Quote:

  “One of the things that winds up being useful to her when she’s learning ASL is that she is very in touch with her body and... ASL is expressed physically, it taps into the same skill set that serves her in ballet.” – Craig [26:14–27:27]

7. “Secret Language” Spreads at Pike House [38:50–40:08]

• ASL becomes a trend among Stoneybrook kids after Jessi and Mallory’s idea of making new friends by linking the Braddocks to the sociable Pikes.

• Personalized signs for insults (“stupid”) delight the kids; they turn ASL into a playful secret code.

• Quote:

  “The Pike kids have really latched on to this secret language... you can talk without getting in trouble.” – Craig [37:59–38:14]

8. Big Ballet Plan & Inclusive Performance [43:15–48:10]

• Jessi realizes Matt and other deaf kids have never experienced a live performance due to accessibility barriers.

• She organizes a special, interpreted show, inviting Matt’s whole class and arranging translations of ballet plot points.

• Quote:

  “Jessi talks to her ballet instructor, talks to Mrs. Braddock... They invite Matt’s class to the ballet, and [provide] sign language descriptions at the beginning of each act.” – Andrew [45:42]

9. Dynamic BSC Meetings & Club Business [49:17–53:25]

• Craig and Andrew delight in Christy’s “benign dictatorship” over the BSC.

• Subplot about club treasury running low due to Christy’s travel expenses; humorous moments about double dues.

• Quote:

  “Christy moving clear across town has kind of upset the business model a little bit. Christy can’t work remote because the Babysitters Club is big on RTO.” – Andrew [50:15]

10. Climax & Emotional Payoff [54:04–62:46]

• At the performance, Matt presents Jessi with flowers, and Katie Beth’s deaf sister connects with her for the first time.

• Jessi’s cousin Keisha visits, and Mallory graciously shares “best friend” status—a mature friendship moment.

• Quote:

  “The emotional intelligence on these sixth graders—unbelievable.” – Andrew [61:46]

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Notable Moments & Quotes

• French Edition Joke:

  “Secret language translates into langage secret... La Grande Secret de Jessi!” – Andrew [09:15]

• On BSC Perpetual Eighth Grade:

  “They're all Time Lords and they're all just kind of slipping through the time stream.” – Andrew [62:14]

• On Childhood Extracurriculars:

  “Am I wrong, Andrew? In all of the books that we have read...this seems like the most extracurricular-heavy book of this crew.” – Craig [55:20]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Series recap & setup: 04:45–08:10
• Discussion of Jessi, representation, and ASL: 11:57–19:45
• Intersectionality and spectrum of difference: 19:45–22:36
• Ballet subplot and imposter syndrome: 25:14–31:15
• Pike house & ASL spreads: 38:50–40:08
• Planning inclusive ballet performance: 43:15–48:10
• Club meeting, “dues,” and Christy’s dictatorship: 49:17–53:25
• Climactic performance & emotional resolution: 54:04–62:46
• Final thoughts and next episode preview: 66:48–end

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Tone and Style

Warm, gently irreverent, and often nostalgic, Andrew and Craig balance genuine admiration for Ann M. Martin’s work with playful riffs and parent-adult observation. They celebrate the BSC’s emotional nuance and progressiveness while poking gentle fun at its quirks (“Time Lords”, “perpetual eighth grade”, Christy’s RTO policies).

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Episode Conclusion

Jessi’s Secret Language receives praise for its empathetic representation, intersectional themes, and deft but gentle handling of issues around disability, difference, and friendship. While Craig and Andrew note the book is “frictionless” and its conflicts largely abstract or systemic, they agree that its approach offers a utopian vision of community support and inclusion in middle-grade fiction.

Next up: Book #90, Welcome to the BSC, Abby! and a look at the 1990s BSC movie adaptation.

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“I think Christy should call for elections. I think it’s time to just check in.”
– Andrew [69:24]

Transcript

[Andrew]

This is a Headgum podcast.

[Craig]

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[Andrew]

I'm trying not to think about February, I'll tell you that much.

[Craig]

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[Andrew]

Don't I know it.

[Craig]

Every new year I say I will get better at it. But life gets busy and next thing you know I'm back to order. Ordering takeout.

[Andrew]

I'm always saying this to you is Craig, you're back to ordering takeout again.

[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

So this January, quit overspending on Wireless with 50% off unlimited premium wireless plans start at $15 a month at mintmobile.com overdue that's mintmobile.com overdue limited time offer upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, $180 for 12 month plan required $15 month equivalent tax and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Cable device required availability speed and coverage var to mobile.com while Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale, they will not shy away from spoiling specific.

[Andrew]

Story beats when necessary.

[Craig]

Plus, these are books you should have read by now. Sit me baby One more time Bop. Welcome to this. That's part of the song right where.

[Andrew]

Where she goes.

[Craig]

Bump Spears they called her. Welcome to our podcast called Sit Me Baby One More Time. It's a podcast from the boys at Overdue. A podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is Craig. My name is Andrew and I am part of the podcasting club here at my school.

[Andrew]

We every week, once a week we sit for an hour and we sit by the phone waiting for people to call in and ask us to record a podcast.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And nobody is ever for like 700 episodes, nobody's ever called. And so we just like talk about something else the whole time and we record and release that. And that's the incredible true story of over overdo the podcast about the books you've been meaning to read.

[Craig]

I don't know.

[Andrew]

Is this been a podcasting club this whole time?

[Craig]

We keep paying for this phone line, Andrew.

[Andrew]

A private phone line in your house.

[Craig]

In my. In my. That's why you always have to come over here.

[Andrew]

I always have to come over to your house. My brother has to drive me over to your house without using our dues.

[Craig]

We'll talk about that.

[Andrew]

Yeah. There's a moment in here that I feel like could have been more of a moment.

[Craig]

There's a little. There is a. Some of that in this. This book. So we're gonna. This is our seventh episode of our miniseries here with the Babysitters Club. We've been moving through the series. If you're listening, you know what the deal is. We move through the series one new member at a time. Last episode, we said, hello, Mallory, and we talked about Mallory's first book in the. In the Club. And now we are covering book 16, Jesse's secret language. Worth noting that we did skip book 15 called Little Miss Stony Brook. Dot, dot, do and dawn. Amazing title.

[Andrew]

Missed a Dawn book.

[Craig]

That's too bad. Yeah, it is a little too bad.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, we're still only two. Two books later, we're still in the first year of the perpetual eighth grade.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Where it's not clear that they're in it. They're. They. They don't know that they're in a loop yet.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

They're still just going through eighth grade like normal. Like, they plan to go through and graduate normally in the space of one year.

[Craig]

I did a quick summary of Little Miss Stony Brook and Dawn, just in case there was anything that seemed super relevant. A bunch of the younger girls that they regularly sit want to compete in a pageant. And the BSC girls become their, like, mentors, and they become very competitive. Like, they've each chosen a Pokemon and they have to fight it out at the pageant. Dawn also takes a little umbrage at Mallory and Jesse getting inducted with a little bit of ceremony to the Babysitters.

[Andrew]

Club because Dawn was kind of ceremoniously brought in.

[Craig]

You're here now. Yes.

[Andrew]

And then Stacy left, and you have to be the secretary one of treasurer or whatever her job is.

[Craig]

Subplots is that Dawn's brother moves back to California. He is struggling in Stony Brook and being separated from where he used to live. And so now she is feeling even just a little more adrift than she already was. So that's. We don't get a lot of that here, but that's just kind of where.

[Andrew]

Dawn is, like mentioned in passing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig]

So this book, as I said, book number 16, cover art Hodges Swallow Pub, date 1988 in the original 1995 reprint. 2021 reprint. I don't have a lot on, like differences between versions. Andrew. The Baby Sitters Club wiki didn't have any non English language titles for this book. I was very disappointed.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you always like those. You like the French ones.

[Craig]

I just want. Ooh la la.

[Andrew]

You know, I don't know if you.

[Craig]

The Club de Babysitter, if you want to Google them real quick while I read the back cover summary for us. Jessie knows a secret language. She learned it from Matt Braddock, the BSC's newest charge. Matt's been deaf since birth and he uses sign language to speak. Since Jesse is Matt's babysitter, she has to use sign language too soon. All the kids in Stony Brook want to learn to sign, which keeps the members of the Babysitters Club busy. Jesse is the busiest of all. She's working on another super secret just for Matt. Will Jesse be able to keep the secret and pull off her special event? Of course she will. She's a member of the Babysitters Club.

[Andrew]

These overachieving goody goodies.

[Craig]

Truly, truly just.

[Andrew]

I just have that secret language translates into langage secret. So I don't. You could do like La grande secret de Jersey.

[Craig]

That tickles me. There was an ad I kept hearing on the radio while we were driving around this weekend where some ladies pretended to be French because she's drinking wine or something and she says, Wisconsin. And it got me pretty good. And there's a. There's a letter from Anna Martin, per usual at the back of the book where she references the novel the Secret Language by Ursula Nordstrom, also referenced in the text, where two girls at a boarding school invent a secret language for themselves. Show us that. That was neat. And she wanted to include a hearing impaired character in the series because she had heard from several deaf or otherwise hearing impaired Babysitters Club fans. And that is where Matthew Braddock and a bunch of the other characters that we meet are going to come from.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's interesting, I think, and I think this, you know, we aren't reading the whole series, so I don't know like how true this is for how many of the books, but it does seem like we've, you know, now that we're in book 16, the series kind of up and humming, we've established our main characters. Mostly it feels A little bit like, Anna Martin is like, okay, like, who's. Whose plight? Have I not called attention to who's.

[Craig]

Not at the table?

[Andrew]

Yeah. What kind of. What kind of representation can I come up with to put in this book?

[Craig]

Yeah. And Matt, who we'll talk about, does go on to, like, reappear in a bunch of the other books in the series.

[Andrew]

Most of the kids, once introduced, do tend to hang around. Like, we see a bunch of the kids from the different families that we've encountered in previous books. Like the little kid who dresses like an American Girl doll from Marianne.

[Craig]

Oh, my God.

[Andrew]

Keeps coming back problem or whatever. We have the. The kids whose mom is. Is scatterbrained. Is never around. They're all still hanging out. All Mallory's brothers and sisters are still here.

[Craig]

Apparently, Matt joins a baseball team run by Christy called Christie's Crushers. And Crushers is spelled with a K. Yes. I'm on board. I love it. So, yeah, that's kind of what I have for the setup of this book. She was interested to include a deaf character, and she had this idea that the secret language would make this interesting title. And there we go. And it's time to. And it's time to do a Jesse book. Jesse is one of the. You know, comes from one of the few black families in Stony Brook, which we'll talk about.

[Andrew]

The only black family. The only black family at the school, for sure.

[Craig]

But yes.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And became Mallory's best friend in book 14. They both needed a best friend, and they hit it off together. Their love of reading, among other things. And now they're both in the babysitters club together. But crucially, they are younger than the other girls. They're sixth graders, not eighth graders. Anything else you want to talk about, Andrew?

[Andrew]

The only thing, really, is, like, just a little tiny bit on American Sign Language, which I know a tiny bit about, because Henry goes to a preschool program that's like, a mix of deaf and hearing kids.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yet something weird that the book does. It refers to American. Like, it does say American Sign Language, but it never says asl. It says Amazon.

[Craig]

Amazon.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure I'm pronouncing that right. It does sound like. Like a fictional lion that you would. That you would encounter in a kingdom that existed inside your wardrobe. Yeah, but it's a it. From what I can find, it is considered to be a mostly, like, obsolete attempt to, like, make ASL into a.

[Craig]

Like, a word.

[Andrew]

A word that sounds like something.

[Craig]

So. Yeah. And that is.

[Andrew]

Uses Amazon. A Bunch of times in this. In this book. To me, in asl, like, it's the same language.

[Craig]

I double check that, too. I listened to a little bit of an audiobook version, and I heard Amazon, and I was like, oh, I've never heard that before. Yeah. And I know it is also different from what is called signed English, which is like a manual translation of the English language and does not have as much of its own grammar. I think in the same way that American Sign Language does.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And what's. What's interesting. And so what the book. Something the book gets into a little bit. I think how the book kind of introduces Jesse to it because. Because what happens is Matt's mom calls the club because they're always putting all their ads up everywhere. They've driven all the other babysitting agencies kind of out of town.

[Craig]

They really have.

[Andrew]

They've got a monopoly on the babysitting game in Stony Brook. And so Matt's mom calls the club and is like, I need somebody. But I need two things. I need them to be able to sit consistently, like, a couple days a week. And I. And my son is deaf, and I need whoever is. Is sitting to be willing to, like, learn asl to, like, communicate with. With him.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

So it's. Yeah. So it's Mrs. Braddock and the slightly older daughter whose name is Haley. I think.

[Craig]

Haley. I think they're nine and seven or something.

[Andrew]

Nine and nine and seven, yeah, Haley. And. And so Mrs. Braddock, like, brings Jesse over and sits her down and explains, like, you know, he goes to a special school for deaf kids. There are all different kinds of, like, levels of deafness. You know, Matt is, like, almost totally deaf, so he can not really hear anything. And that also makes it so he can't really speak. So ASL is like. She presents it as a. Like a decision that they decided to make because there's a lot of pressure, and I think there still is some, for deaf people to learn to lip read and for that to be, like, a main way that they communicate. But as. As is explained in the book and as Jesse kind of works out, there are a lot of words that just look the same when you are lip reading.

[Craig]

Yep, yep.

[Andrew]

Which is why, like, the. The, you know, doing that sort of thing for comedic effects, like that bad lip reading series of videos where you just kind of take it and make it silly works. It's just because so many things. So many things look like that. But she, you know, she. She also acknowledges, you know, it means. That it means he has, like, a much larger range of communication that he can. That he can reliably do. It means he gets less frustrated sometimes when he's trying to communicate with people. But it also means there's more of a. More of a barrier because fewer people can, like, talk to him.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And so Jesse kind of throws herself into it. But, yeah, I was reading a little bit about asl, and just, you know, it's. It is that that focus on trying to learn to lip read was kind of the status quo for. For many, many, many years. And it's not until, like, the 50s and 60s that you really, like, codify, like, ASL in education and you start. And this is all, like, part of the civil rights movement, I guess. So, you know, it's.

[Craig]

This book is very intersectional. Yeah. A lot of tempting to be, at least.

[Andrew]

Yeah. But, yeah, this guy, William Stokoe, was a. Was a linguist who argued for, like, use using this language, devised, like, a transcription system for it, and kind of set the stage for the more, like, widespread usage of ASL that we're more familiar with now. So it's kind of neat. It's a neat thing.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

He knows a little. Henry knows a little bit of signing Susanna. Like, the school offers a class for adults that Suzanne has been able to make the time to go to.

[Craig]

And. Oh, that's great.

[Andrew]

Like, learning and fingerspelling and stuff. But, yeah, so to your point about it, like, it's. It's status as a language. Something that happens a lot in asl, which I think is super cool and which Jesse also thinks is cool is like, a lot of words are like, you take the finger sign for the letter, and then you do something with it, and that means, like. Like she says in the. The sign for apple is to make an A sign and then to, like, bite. To bite it because you're eating an app. And the way that name signs work is like, you know, you. You spell somebody's name when you're getting to know them, but then you. You know, as. As you get to know somebody better, you come up with, like, a name sign for them. And it's usually the first letter of their name combined with, like, a word that is, like, meaningful to them in some way. So, like, Haley. Haley is like an H, but the sign for comet, because of Haley's comet. Jesse, who dances ballet, is like a J sign, but then the sign for dancer.

[Craig]

It's cool.

[Andrew]

Like, the second day, I think Henry started at this preschool. The deaf teacher in his class came up with the. The Sign for him, which is the 8, the letter H and the sign for sweet, which.

[Craig]

Oh, that's right.

[Andrew]

He made me and Suze not feel any way at all. We didn't have any feelings about it.

[Craig]

No, it's not the most beautiful thing in the world I've ever heard. Not at all.

[Andrew]

No, it's not that. So anyway, like, I've got a little bit of, like, contact with it, and I think it is. I think it is neat. And it was neat. Neat to see it in a book from, like, 1988.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Presented, like, probably, you know, it's probably not, like, fully up to date in terms of, like, what best practices or how you would, like, introduce somebody to it are. But I thought it was mostly pretty, like, deftly handled.

[Craig]

The hallmarks of the series are there in terms of Martin's. Like, how is Martin thinking about it? Like, to your. What you said earlier, where Mrs. Braddock is pretty clear that, like, this is a choice our family made. You know, like, people can disagree with us. We're operating within a system, and we made a decision for our family. And, like, the. There are a lot of other points of, like, when new. When people encounter Matt or another deaf character in the book for the first time, like, what choices have they made or what are their reactions? Like, Martin is generally just really, you know, patient with all these characters and, like, gives them room to have the responses that they would make. And then we, the reader, just kind of get to see, like, a spectrum of. Of human experience, which is, like, one of the better ways to represent disability, I think, rather than, like, saying it's always going to be one thing or there's only one, you know, way to move forward or whatever it might be.

[Andrew]

Well, and you see. You see a lot of kids, like, earnestly trying to relate to each other in, like, so with Jesse and Matt and Matt's sister Haley, who, like, is really protective of Matt but also, like, resents him in some ways because she feels like his, like, having to stand up for him and explain things for him also divides her in some ways from the kids. So, like, she's dealing with that.

[Craig]

And they're new to town also.

[Andrew]

Yeah, they're new to town also. Like, every. Somebody's always moving to Stony Brook. This is a city on the grill. There's always new customers moving in for the babysitters club to pick up. But Haley, Jesse have a conversation about, you know, what it feels like to be, like. Like different. And even I think Christy has one. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Christy and Haley I think talk.

[Craig]

Oh, it's.

[Andrew]

Is it Haley?

[Craig]

It's. No, it's Christy and Jesse's younger sister.

[Andrew]

Right, right, right. You're right. You're right. And Christie's like, yeah, my. My mom married a rich guy, and all the kids in my. In this new town, like, made fun of me for being poor. And it's. It's not like. It's never trying to be like, I'm. I'm comparing my experience directly to yours and trying to, like, one up you or. Or imply that these two things are exactly the same, but, like, these are. These are ways that we feel singled out and we feel different, and I think then they all make us feel a similar way. And how can we use that to, like, understand each other better? So it's just. It's. It's well handled, I think.

[Craig]

New Year, same extra value meals at McDonald's now get a savory sausage McMuffin with egg plus hash browns and a small coffee for just $5 for a limited time only. Prices and anticipation may vary.

[Andrew]

Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery.

[Craig]

Let's talk about the plot.

[Andrew]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Craig]

So it opens with. It's Jesse's perspective, and she says, this is a fun story that I'm going to tell you, and it wouldn't have happened if I weren't so good at languages. I'm the best at languages. And it's almost like how I'm good at ballet. And then she talks a little bit about ballet and her family, and she reminds the reader, she says, I'm 11, and my full name is Jessica Davis Ramsey. My family is black. I know it sounds funny to announce it like that. If we were white, I wouldn't have to because you would probably assume we were white. But when you're a minority, things are different. I just appreciate Martin being like, yeah, a lot of people reading these books are probably just gonna assume these characters are white. Unless I say something. It's set in Connecticut. Like, let's be clear what's happening here.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, thinking about going back to the Hunger Games universe and.

[Craig]

Yeah, right.

[Andrew]

Some of the characters in that who are either, like, explicitly described as having darker skin or, like, it's not mentioned. And everybody, every time anybody who's not white is cast in one of those movies is like, where's all the white people?

[Craig]

So obnoxious.

[Andrew]

Why isn't there a white, white Hunger Games?

[Craig]

My God. So Jesse is like, you know, just like, I'm gonna level with You. Here's what's going on. People in this town have not been chill about my family being here. The word she uses is they've been wary, which is like, they have not all been mean. They have not all been aggressive, but they have not been as welcoming. And we saw that in the Mount. In the hello Mallory book as well.

[Andrew]

And Jesse's like, yeah, I don't know if they're actually racist or if they just don't know how to act, but it has been. There's been a breaking in period.

[Craig]

Yes. And then she. And then she rattles off like, there's some. Especially other kids are like, whatever. You know, like, we want to. Want to be friends with my neighbors. I made best friends with my friend Mallory. I miss my friend Keisha, who's my cousin from my old town. And she's like, but things are okay. And then we cut to a babysitter's club scene. We get our usual, like, here are all the girls. You have to meet the girls. Here are their deals.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Here's each girl's main trait.

[Craig]

I like that. The. The only one I really remember is when she's, like, talking about Christy being bossy, and she. And I just kind of like Jesse being like. I kind of like that she's bossy. Like, I get it. I get being bossy.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I think, like, Claudia is always. I think in this book and the Mallory book, Claudia is always described in the most, like, rapturous, complimentary terms. They're like, girls are so impressed with. With Claudia and how she has her own sense of style and she eats junk food all the time.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

She's an artist.

[Craig]

That she has a sense of style, I think, is so impressive.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

To a sixth grader. And so, yes, the Braddock family has moved to town. Mrs. Braddock calls during the meeting, and no one else is available on the particular schedule. It's not like, given the setup, I was expecting, like, one of the girls to be, like, I don't know, that I'm, like, up for that, you know, language acquisition job.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's just that never comes up. It's never framed that way.

[Craig]

No. So Jesse takes the gig because she has the schedule, and then we also are gonna set up her ballet school. Tell me about her ballet school.

[Andrew]

So she, you know, we talked about this a little bit in the Mallory episode, but she has tried out for this kind of elite ballet school in Stony Brook. And it's like, was it in Stamp? It might be in Stanford. They definitely do their show in Stanford. But it's like they. They do. They put on big shows for the public that people come.

[Craig]

They do.

[Andrew]

People come and see.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So she, you know, she got into this. This school in the Mallory book.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And now we're spending time with her there. She's like. She's the only 11 year old. I think she's the youngest kid. And some of the kids kind of like resent her for it a little bit. She was in the Mallory book. She was. She was worried about also being like the only black girl in the class. That's not really. It's never really framed that way in this book at all. I'm just commenting on.

[Craig]

Yeah, no, it's a slightly different, as you say that. I think I was reading it, the whole book, like, expecting that shoe to drop.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Instead. Instead, the shoe that at least we get to see is a teacher's pet. Like, goody, goody.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

We're jealous of you thing, of course, because Jesse is.

[Andrew]

Jesse's a perfect. Jesse's a perfect.

[Craig]

She is very good at it.

[Andrew]

She's the perfect girl.

[Craig]

The reason she.

[Andrew]

But she, like, turns her enemies into friends, or she turns one enemy into a friend and then the other enemy just kind of disappears and never comes.

[Craig]

Back narratively vaporizes the other girl. But no, it's like she says early on, like, one of the things that winds up being useful to her when she's learning ASL is that she, like, is very in touch with her body and can, like, she's good at languages. But also, like, the fact that ASL is expressed physically, it taps into the same skill set that serves her when she is doing ballet and, like, learning choreography and things like that. So that's just kind of a neat way to think about it. But yeah, these. Some of these girls are just, you know, it's like Caddy, you know, dance school stuff where, like, they're jealous of. They're all trying out for a performance of Coppelia Capelia.

[Andrew]

And so I did paste this, the. The Wikipedia page for Coppelia. I just. Can you give me the subtitle real quick of this. Of this French ballet from 1870?

[Craig]

Oh, what does it say that it sometimes. Oh, Coppelia. Sometimes subtitled La fille you Demel. The girl of the. Of the old. Of the eyes of email.

[Andrew]

Not of email. Of ename. But it does look like the girl with the email eyes.

[Craig]

The girl with the email eyes. That's funny because.

[Andrew]

Well, first, because it's my favorite strong bad song. The girl that they Did.

[Craig]

You're right. It is an 1870 comic ballet by choreographer Arthur St. Laurent. St. Leon, excuse me. And music by Leo De Lieb. And it does involve a dancing, like, automaton puppet girl.

[Andrew]

So that's like a woman who pretends to be a puppet come to life.

[Craig]

Yes. The.

[Andrew]

The plot is explained in this book multiple times, and I was glad to look it up and realize that it was real and not like the. The Slime Kings or whatever, that weird band that Anna Martin made up. Like, I'm. I'm glad. I'm both glad and disappointed that she didn't invent a. A nice French palace.

[Craig]

No.

[Andrew]

This bad boy's in the public domain, so you can do whatever you want.

[Craig]

Funny to me that her name is her. That she's the girl with the email eyes, because she is, like, a little robot girl. And there is a character named Swanhilda who is the lead who's gonna pretend to be the robot girl. I did find it also interesting that it is based on a story called Der Sound man by E.T.A. hoffman, German writer, I think, who is the same dude who wrote the Nutcracker.

[Andrew]

Whoa.

[Craig]

Another ballet. Yeah. Guys got bangers. So.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, she's. She has tried. She has tried out for this ballet. She's super nervous about it, but she gets. Not only does she get into it, and she would have been happy just to be a townsperson, she says, but not only did she get into it, but she's like the lead. She's the girl.

[Craig]

She's Swanhilda doll.

[Andrew]

Yes, she's Swanhilda.

[Craig]

Yeah. And all those girls are like.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And practice for rehearsal for this is pretty intense. Like, she has to rehearse, like, two or three times a week and fit in her babysitting obligations. And. And yeah, the.

[Craig]

The snotty girl is led by Katie Beth. Katie Beth and the girl who doesn't exist.

[Andrew]

What's the other one's name? I don't even remember.

[Craig]

Truly.

[Andrew]

She truly vanishes. Yeah.

[Craig]

Because Katie Beth becomes like, a human, and the other girl doesn't exist. They call her a teacher's pet, and then she goes home to her mom and has, like, big imposter syndrome. And I just appreciated when we read a lot of these books this start. You know, we talked about this with Ramona Quimby, Andrew. Now that I'm a parent, I'm, like, really sensitive to, like, depictions of good and interesting parenting.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And, like, it's Hillary and Katie Beth.

[Craig]

Hillary and Katie Beth. When Jesse's mom is like, listen, when we moved here, we looked for the best school. We looked up this French lady who is strange but is apparently the best. Would. Do you think that she would cast someone just because she liked them? And Jesse's like, no, you're right. Like, it's just like a. I just appreciated a little window into their relationship as mother and daughter and like the parenting style of Jesse's mom, which is just like, yeah, we did the homework. We don't make decisions foolishly. And you can use that information to like, inform your own self esteem, please.

[Andrew]

Yeah, like, I do. I did look it up. Hillary's Name does appear last 49 of the way through. She's. It's not even that she's a background character because she is cast in the. In the ballet. Not even that she's a background character in later crowd scenes where they like, go out to the.

[Craig]

Sean, this girl is too messy.

[Andrew]

She has a moment 49% of the way through the book where Katie Beth and Hillary both, like, begrudgingly give a genuine nice job to Jesse. And then Hillary is abducted by aliens and never appears in the book again. And then Katie Beth is revealed to have a deaf sister.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Katie Beth has never tried to talk to. And. And Jesse's like, well, I know some sign language and I know that your sister is asking you go to bathroom, Adele.

[Craig]

Her name is, I think.

[Andrew]

Yes. And like, there are multiple points through this book where a kid has an opportunity to like, lash out at Jesse in like some kind of embarrassment or something, but instead is like open to the experience of learning sign language and like, not, you know, like becoming part of this cool little click that's speaking.

[Craig]

Yeah, we'll talk about that. Yeah.

[Andrew]

American Secret Language. More like, hey, but yeah, Hillary's gone. Hillary doesn't exist.

[Craig]

No, never did.

[Andrew]

We don't talk about Hillary anymore.

[Craig]

Well, we meet the Braddocks. We talked about this. That Matt is seven, he's deaf. He goes to a school for other kids who are deaf or have other hearing impairments. We talk about all the family's decision to use asl. His older sister. They give Jesse a dictionary, which comes up later in the book, and she, you know, starts learning right away. There is a short chapter in the Babysitter Club Notebook where Marianne is babysitting little Jenny Prissy Pants. I presume that's what her name means.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's what her name is. Yeah.

[Craig]

They run into Matt and Jesse outside, and this little girl is just being awful to him. Like, really just not she. Combination of too Young and she's a little prissy pants.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And is just kind of rude to him and does not. Not listening to any of the older kids about like, what the situation is.

[Andrew]

And like, like, tries to like, yell at him, like to make him hear. Like, goes right up to him and yells in his ear and he just kind of steps back and is like, what do you.

[Craig]

I think it's smart of Martin to use a character that we know kind of stinks for this.

[Andrew]

Like, yeah, we got to have. We have a couple sinker kids who can, who can represent like, what, bad child behavior.

[Craig]

Yes. And then we get this first kind of unloading from Haley, Matt's sister, where she says having a brother like Matt really stinks. It's so horrible. People think Matt's weird, but he isn't deaf. Is not weird. Everybody's unfair. And you just see the full spectrum of her being like, it's. It's frustrating that he's my brother because people don't respond to him well. And I hate that people don't respond to him well. And I hate that I'm nine and I have to deal with it. Like, that's Haley's deal right now.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And usually a lot of these books have had like, the babysitters being like, oh, this is why this 9 year old is acting this way. Like, they. This is a. This is not a, an uncommon plot point for the series, but it's just specific to these characters.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And Jesse's plan to like, help Haley and Matt make some friends is to take them to the Pikes. Her plan being there are eight kids there. You will make friends with one of them. It will happen. And also the Barretts are. There's so many children in this house. And this is where this, the like secret society starts. Andrew, tell me more about that. How does this pop off?

[Andrew]

It's so it's. They're babysitting. Yeah. For the, for the Pikes and the Pike. Every crowd scene with the Pikes is like one interaction away from just like spinning into total.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's true. It's true.

[Andrew]

But yeah, they go over and. And I think they basically just explain the, the ASL situation and put Haley in a position of being able to like, help interpret. It helps that Matt is into sports and all of the, the other kids over there are into sports. I don't know that that happens like, right off the bat, but that is a, an early point of bonding that helps kind of bridge the communication gap. Because playing baseball, like, you don't need to be, like, shouting at each other the whole time to be doing that.

[Craig]

Matt does say that he thinks that the Patriots are going to the super bowl this year. I did look it up. This is a 1988 Super Bowl 23. The Patriots were not in the Super Bowl. It was the Niners and the Bengals. The Patriots.

[Andrew]

The Patriots. That clothes get close.

[Craig]

They finished 9 and 7, but they did not make it into the playoffs, and it was their last season with a winning record until 1994. So I also looked up the halftime show. This was before the kind of convention of you would just have, like, an artist be the halftime show. It was mostly Elvis impersonators and, like, CG footage of Elvis songs. It was. I don't. It was very. What was it called? It was called the bebop bamboozled in 3D was the theme for the halftime show.

[Andrew]

I just think we need to scale them back.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Like, I. I like the series halftime show a lot. Mostly because it's. I mean, for a lot of reasons. Partly because it appeared in the middle of a game where our beloved birds.

[Craig]

Did so good, but also because it was a diss track.

[Andrew]

Yeah, also because of that. But I just think in general, we can. Yeah, this. This year's show also did kind of represent a toning down of ridiculous, like, people dancing in the air on transparent platforms or whatever. Like, there was a little less artifice to it, and some people complained about it. I thought it was great. I think we should make it so that you could. So that you could do weird hologram Elvis again. I just don't think it should be that big a deal anymore. Just, like, tone down the pressure a little bit. What else can we do?

[Craig]

Make the weekend get lost again. I liked when he was lost in that. In that video. He couldn't find his way out of the mirrors. More of that, please. But also, yes, make it just weird. More marching bands. Marching bands, please.

[Andrew]

Yeah, bring them back. Every pro football team should have a marching band that travels with them everywhere.

[Craig]

So the pike kids have. Have, like, really latched on to this secret language, because one of the things that the babysitters tell them is that if you use asl, you can talk without getting in trouble. Like, you could say things without getting in trouble. When you got in trouble.

[Andrew]

They do share the sign for stupid.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Which is very, I think, very true to kid language acquisition, which is like, what are. What are the cusses and what are the insults?

[Craig]

And we got a quick little story from dawn and Mallory, who were Babysitting the pikes where the kids. This is one of those long like dinner scenes where the kids are all grossing each other out. And as you said Andrew, like society could collapse at any second. They all get sent to the language to the. To the basement together. And they're coming up with goofy sign language language. Like they are like coming up with their own symbols. It's very fun.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And they so and they also sing two of the great like oh boy, the kids worms. Nobody knows the source for like Jingle Bell's Batman smells. Like these kids songs that just kind of materialize from nowhere and are taught to kids.

[Craig]

Where did Jingle Bells Batman.

[Andrew]

Nobody knows where Jingle Bell's Batman smells came from. Like it's like one of the like the recorded data points for it is that Simpsons episode where Bart sings it.

[Craig]

I sang it in school.

[Andrew]

Like yeah, but like it was written.

[Craig]

Before down in music class.

[Andrew]

But nobody knows where it actually came from.

[Craig]

Huh.

[Andrew]

Jingle Bell's Batman smells. Robin laid an egg. So they do sing on top of spaghetti all. All covered in cheese. Yeah, I lost my poor meatball. Etc. Etc. And the nobody likes me, everybody hates me. I guess I'll go eat worms.

[Craig]

Yes. And the kids are just getting on each other's nerves and the babysitters banish them to the basement and they're like wow, they're like behaving in the basement and it's because they're coming up with like fun sign language and asking questions and having a good time. And so then we get a little bit. So now like this sets the stage for sign language as a thing that is like taking the community by sweeping Stoney Brook. Kids are having fun.

[Andrew]

Everybody's having fun because all like the then something I think is nice. And one benefit of having just like a million kids per per capita in.

[Craig]

My God, so many kids.

[Andrew]

So many kids is that there's a lot of cross pollination on babysitting gigs.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

The babysitters let the neighborhood kids like play with each other. And so there's a lot of like socializing and passing around of information and.

[Craig]

Yes, in between some babysitting jobs. We get the scene you alluded to earlier Andrew, where Katie Beth, after a ballet practice, one of the mean girls at ballet, is waiting for a ride at the same time as Jesse is. And we are introduced to Katie Beth's younger sister Adele, who is also deaf. But Katie doesn't sign we. And we learn that Adele goes to a school that like a resident school and so is not around that much and so Katie Beth has not been forced to, nor has she chosen to learn any sign language, and her parents.

[Andrew]

Don'T know it either. So, yeah, basically, yeah, nobody's communicating with this kid when she is there with them.

[Craig]

And so, like, Jesse signs a little bit with Adele, and, like, it's this, like, bonding moment between the two of them and then turns into a bonding moment with her and Katie Beth. And I like the little paragraph where, like, Jesse's like, hey, me and this girl who I thought, like, didn't like me now have a connection. I don't think we're gonna be best friends. I have two best friends, but we're not enemies anymore.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's nice that we have this connection.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And it's nice that somebody's disappeared Hillary so that we don't need to figure.

[Craig]

Out a way she was the problem. There's like, a whole scene where Claudia is babysitting Chr. Besties. Like, youngest sibling and her sibling in laws.

[Andrew]

I always really appreciate Anna Martin's commitment to Claudia can't spell anything.

[Craig]

Oh, my God, what is that?

[Andrew]

We're reading the little paragraphs of Claudia writing in the. The mandated babysitter diary.

[Craig]

I don't think Jesse comments on it. I remember Mallory or someone else commenting on it being like, what is this that I'm reading?

[Andrew]

I think Mallory commented on it because she's like, these girls are trying to say I'm stupid about babysitt. And, like, Claudia can't spell the words that she's asking you to define in the. In the babysitting quiz. Like, what gives?

[Craig]

And Jesse's just, like, reading the book. And so it's. It's a story about the kids, like, telling ghost stories and getting, you know, learning some additional sign language where they. I think they wind up calling Jesse to get some signs, some definitions.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So, like, the big, like, emotional payoff of the book. Book. And we. There. There are a couple other little, like, character points we can talk to. I do want to talk about Christy and the Deuce.

[Craig]

Yeah, I have a. I just. Because the books are. That whole club meeting ever struck me.

[Andrew]

Funny by it so fast. And I just. I think one of our running things is keeping track of the benign dictatorship of. Of Kristy Thomas, this babysitter that she founded.

[Craig]

But no, set up the, like, the whole, like. Like, last act of the book from a. From a plot perspective.

[Andrew]

So Jesse is. And this is. This is also a real thing that I've experienced when I've gone to see, like, little. Like, little shows that Henry's class has put on in preschool is. She is talking. She's thinking about how, like, Matt and some of the other, like, deaf kids who she's. Who she's encountered, like, can't really. Like, she's sort of talked to them about ballet a little bit, but they can't really hear the music, but they can. She realizes, as her, like, ballet instructor is walking around, like, tapping her. Tapping a stick on the floor to. To. In time, that they can feel, like, vibrations, and they can see the movement of the dancers. And Jesse does think a couple of. At a couple of points, like, sign language is a little, like, ballet in that you're kind of using your body to communicate, like, things and ideas. And this is. This is part of why. It's, like. It's connecting so well for her, I think this. But she ends up. Yeah, go ahead.

[Craig]

It comes quickly. It just. It comes out of a scene where they have another babysitting, like, adventure where the boys play baseball and, like, Matt is bonding with some other kids while they play baseball. We get this, like, intersectional conversation between Jesse and Haley where Haley is talking a little bit about, like, I wish I was an only child sometimes. And I feel weird about saying that out loud. And Jesse's like, yeah, I feel that way about my. My sister, too. Like, I. I don't want to share my parents. I. I kind of. There. There are times where it's annoying to have Becca and her younger brother squirt around. But, like, Becca and Becca is the only person who understands what it's like to be the only. Like, some of the only black kids in Stony Brook. Like, I need Becca in my life. And they talk a little bit about Matt and Haley's relationship with Matt and how Matt has, like, never seen a play or never, like, been to a live performance. Because when they watch things on tv, there can be subtitles and stuff like that. And that gives Jesse the idea, what if they came to the ballet?

[Andrew]

Yeah. So just Jesse talks to her ballet Instructor, talks to Mrs. Braddock about going to the school that Matt goes to and talking to the teacher and seeing this is a thing she would be interested in doing. But it ends up being this sort of. This thing she puts together where they invite Matt and all his whole class to see the. See the ballet. And they're gonna have Mrs. Braddock and Haley, like, before the beginning of each act, like, describe and sign what the. The ballet is about.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

To the kids. And they're gonna.

[Craig]

I do have a note.

[Andrew]

Okay. Yes. Go ahead.

[Craig]

If you are going to invite a group of students to a performance, generally give them more than eight days notice. Like don't go into their classroom.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And tell the kids you're all coming to my ballet performance. And then the school has to go to all the parents and be like, permission slips. Let's figure it out.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's pretty short notice.

[Craig]

It's just a silly, you know, it's.

[Andrew]

A little, I think everybody, like every, everybody in this book who is, who is deaf just seems very chuffed to have somebody like trying to do something.

[Craig]

That is the vibe of the book. You're right. You're right.

[Andrew]

Which is, yeah. Which, which is a little reflective of, of Jesse's experience too. Is like, yeah, what if, what if I, I would just like some of these people to be like nicer and nicer to me a little bit. Like that's, that's all I'm asking. Asking for. And I did like, no, your, your point, your point is completely valid, but it just struck me as not a thing that the book wants to like no time thinking.

[Craig]

It's a, it's a struck me funny. It's just a kind of silly thing for an 11 year old to be like, hey, all you six to nine year olds, I'm telling you to come to this ballet in a week, make sure your parents are okay with it. Was kind of funny. I did like all like the scene at the school was really interesting in its depiction of the spectrum of deafness. Like I, you know, and also this is something I've been encountering at work a lot recently. Just kind of that classroom seems pretty like strength based in terms of the students learning abilities rather than like deficit based. Like there's lots of visual information because that's the way that they learn. Right. Like, there's lots of other tool, adaptive tools for them.

[Andrew]

But the kids who have a little hearing have like cassette tapes and things that they can listen to. Like it's all very. Yeah.

[Craig]

And it's, it's just, it's something that I have learned a lot about recently in the, in the, the work that I've been doing. But I appreciate a depiction of education that is not like, well, let's just like figure out how we shore up the things that these kids don't have access to and is, isn't instead saying, well what. What are they good at? What can they, what are the ways that they like to learn? And leaning into that. So it was just kind of an I appreciate again, this is written in 1988. Like, I just. I am grateful for these texts to be out there in the world.

[Andrew]

The only. The only other struck me funny that happens at all is like, Jesse goes to a bunch of like, 8th grade girls and is like, hey, do you want to come to a ballet performance? And all the girls are like, oh, ballet sick.

[Craig]

That is. That is true.

[Andrew]

You know, would that, would that all 8th graders were so excited about, like, you know, the arts in general and a play from like a ballet from 1870 in particular.

[Craig]

We might as well talk about it now. The other circumflex. Funny I have is the dues conversation, Andy. We should just talk about it now.

[Andrew]

So it's.

[Craig]

I don't know. In this club meeting.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Where the girls are like, listen, Christy is running the meeting. She's like, hey, treasury's a little low.

[Andrew]

Well, dawn is saying treasury's a low. Little low. She's the treasurer.

[Craig]

Now that Stacy's fair enough. And. And they're all like, yeah, we've been paying a lot of money to have your brother drive you from the rich neighborhood, Christie.

[Andrew]

And Christie, like, instantly deflects and it's like, well, maybe we can all just pay double dues.

[Craig]

She does. Like, maybe. Maybe today we pay double dues. And everyone's like, I don't think that's gonna fix it, Christie. Even though they all admit, like, the business is booming, like, things are going.

[Andrew]

Well is booming and they don't mind putting in extra because they are making so much from the babysitting gigs.

[Craig]

It's just so fun.

[Andrew]

But it is. It is just clear that Chrissy moving clear across town has kind of upset the. The business model a little bit. Christy can't work remote because the babysitters club is like, big on rto, so they all have to be. They all have to be at Claudia's room buts and seats.

[Craig]

I did appreciate. I have no idea what will come of this. Or not. Like, we're gonna skip ahead after this episode and learn about. What's her name? Abby. I guess.

[Andrew]

I look. Welcome to the bsc, Abby.

[Craig]

Yes, I appreciate the. These BSC meetings, like in the middle of books where they can. They can kind of seed future plot points a little bit if they want to. So, like, the thing we get in this book is, you know, Christie's mom, who has had four kids, I think, and is now had. Has two children in law. Step kids. Yeah, step kids.

[Andrew]

Children. Children in law.

[Craig]

That's not how it works. Sorry.

[Andrew]

These are my. These are my children. These are my in laws.

[Craig]

These Children? No, they're step kids. Excuse me. I've seen Step by Step. I know how it works.

[Andrew]

And I guess, like, technically they are children in law.

[Craig]

Like, that's what all children are. Children in law. In a way, that's when you think about it.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Until they're emancipated. And she, Christy says, like, my mom has been talking about, like, wishing she was pregnant.

[Andrew]

Christy's mom's got the baby crazy, got the baby fever.

[Craig]

Well, you know, she's recently married. She loves this guy. Like, it's probably a thing they've talked about.

[Andrew]

And they're like, and Chrissy, how old's your mom? And Christie's like, my mom's like, 37, I think.

[Craig]

Yeah. And they're like, okay.

[Andrew]

Which made me feel 9,000 years old.

[Craig]

It put me in the earth. I was dead when I read that. But it, like, I don't know if that's going to come up in certain. In other books. I would bet it would not be here if it wasn't going to. But I just kind of wanted to recognize, like, I think that these BSC meetings that are not critical to the plot of the book sometimes, like, it's an interesting way to, like, use your series. Like, it's just an interesting place to put in other storylines that may pay off later.

[Andrew]

But I did. But I, you know, I also was like, oh, Christie's mom is up here. Christie's mom. Hello. How are you?

[Craig]

That's fair enough.

[Andrew]

Could create.

[Craig]

That's.

[Andrew]

That's gonna be an interesting thing, watching the 90s movies. Because, yeah, the 90s movie had, like, Larissa Oleynik and many other crush objects.

[Craig]

Yeah, checks. This is my drawer of crush.

[Andrew]

Objects. And I'm just wondering, like, am I going to watch this movie and be overwhelmed with. With hot moms? How is this going to hit me now as a 39 year old?

[Craig]

Are all the hot moms, like, younger than we are now also, like, that. That's the thing that. That is a bummer sometimes, but. Yeah, no, that's totally.

[Andrew]

Sometimes you gotta think. Sometimes you gotta think about it. Sometimes you think about thinking about, I'm married, not buried. You know what I mean?

[Craig]

Whoa. So the plot. We don't.

[Andrew]

We try not to have a lot of, like, dudes rock moments on this podcast, like, as a rule, but sometimes they do.

[Craig]

Sometimes dudes do, in fact, rock. Like when I watched that TikTok of a man using his electric power gun, his power drill to spin around on the floor because he'd attached a cool Attachment to it. Dudes rock. So the plan is to invite all these kids to a cool ballet to have the translation, as Andrew said. And it's great. It goes off super well.

[Andrew]

Great. Matt is like, I love you, Jesse. You're my favorite grown up.

[Craig]

There's a very dramatic curtain call where Matt comes up with flowers and says this. And then also Adele comes up with flowers and gives them to Katie Beth.

[Andrew]

Because, like, her sister's talking to her for the first time ever.

[Craig]

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And then they go backstage and they, you know, all sorts of people are congratulating Jesse for being an amazing lead in the show.

[Andrew]

If. If this were an episode of a TV show, I think the camera would linger momentarily on a milk carton with Hillary's face on it as everybody kind of filtered out of the room.

[Craig]

Like, where's Hillary? Yeah, there would be like, you know, maybe there'd be a shot of the, like, the call board where, like, Hillary never checked in for that performance.

[Andrew]

Yeah. You know, her understudy would be there.

[Craig]

Justice for Barb. It'd be that kind of thing if this were like a Stranger Things for sure. And we get some fun moments where, like, Mallory is very excited for Jesse, who I did expect a little bit of more of Mallory in the book, given their relationship in. In the prior book.

[Andrew]

Jesse's just so busy. She's busy every day. She doesn't have any time to hang out with anybody.

[Craig]

This is. Am I wrong, Andrew? In all of the books that we have read, aside from the Babysitters Club, this seems like the most extracurricular, heavy book book that we have read of this crew.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Yeah, I think so. Because for most of the girls, like, the Babysitters Club is their extracurricular.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Like, the babysitting is.

[Craig]

Is it because, like, Jesse's always late to meetings because she has other stuff.

[Andrew]

Because she has ballet and stuff. But. But it's never. Like, her parents are supportive of her doing ballet and they buy her the shoes that wear out all the time and they have, like a bar in the basement for her to, like, practice on. But they're not. They're never like stage parents.

[Craig]

No, they're not about it.

[Andrew]

They're like, oh, you. You really love this and you are driven to do it, so we're going to support you in that, but we're not gonna be. We're not gonna be hovering over you, like, insisting that you get good at Olympic level ballet.

[Craig]

Yeah, well, and. And even Jesse says early in the book, she's like, I don't think I want. I don't know that I did. I have designs on being a professional ballet performer. I just like how it feels. I just like like the experience of doing it. I'm sure we've ever talked about versions of this Andrew, but did you do any non school extracurriculars growing up? Like I was thinking about when I was these girls age in middle school and I was doing, I was doing some sports. Sports I played were soccer and wrestling. I never won a wrestling match. That's why I do a book podcast and. And then in high school I did theater and I did band but those.

[Andrew]

Are all like school affiliated.

[Craig]

But they were all school affiliated. I never did a like I was never in a non school like performance group. I was never on a non school sports team after like being eight and doing like weekend soccer kind of stuff.

[Andrew]

Once I was 16 I had a part time job and then I had.

[Craig]

A part time job in high school.

[Andrew]

Yeah pretty continuously until 18 and but yeah I did like I, I played football in seventh grade for one year. I got trophies. Said most improved that I'm sure still knocking around my parents house somewhere. Which was both an achievement and kind of a. It was more about where I started where than where I ended up if. If you know what I mean.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And then I did all the kinds of band that there were. Marching, jazz.

[Craig]

Marching jazz or orchestral pep. Huh?

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig]

It wasn't called or not orchestral.

[Andrew]

It's concert like putting on too many airs. But yeah concert band. There were a couple where you play the, the overture from Lord of the Rings.

[Craig]

There were a couple of band kids who would go and play with the orchestra for the orchestra concerts. Oh what the heck. Who are those kids? What were they doing?

[Andrew]

Snooty kids.

[Craig]

Snooty orchestra kids.

[Andrew]

So yeah I did did all of that. There was like man I forget what it was called but a couple of times I like the, the like cream of the crop from all the, the. The concert bands.

[Craig]

Did you go to like county.

[Andrew]

The Marion county school system would get together and like have like put on a concert.

[Craig]

Yep. Went to, went to county choir a few times. Yep for sure.

[Andrew]

But yeah again all, all school affiliated except for the, the part time job. Like my, my extracurriculars were like. It was me and squared like Square Enix.

[Craig]

Yes that's. I was thinking about middle school specifically.

[Andrew]

I was mostly square soft. It was a Square Enixoft.

[Craig]

But I was me and me and.

[Andrew]

Me and my uncle who works at Nintendo. We're hanging out a lot.

[Craig]

If I wasn't losing wrestling matches or playing in jazz band, I was across the street at my neighbor's house playing a squaresoft game. Like that's what I was doing.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

It just struck me as like, I do. I don't have access to the kid goes to a studio extracurricular or to the travel team sport extracurricular. In my own personal experience. And it's just. It's not a thing we've seen in the series either. So it's kind of neat that all, like, the kids show up for her, but it's just beyond my lived experience.

[Andrew]

I want to know. I can. I can already tell I need to push myself a little bit harder to make sure Henry has. Has access to some of that stuff. Because my default stays like, man, I just sat around the house all the time. And like, I hung out with my friends sometimes. I play games sometimes. But I was not, you know, mostly because we didn't have any money when.

[Craig]

That was sort of a similar thing.

[Andrew]

I didn't have, like, music lessons. I didn't have that kind of, like, time filling stuff.

[Craig]

I was very. I was very lucky to get it through school. And not every school has the means to do that.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

And so maybe it was just that I was fortunate enough to.

[Andrew]

To.

[Craig]

To get enough of it through school.

[Andrew]

Right. Yeah.

[Craig]

We don't get.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I did get.

[Craig]

That approach is like, doesn't have arts programming, but also arts programming, but also Jesse came to town set with a ballet agenda as well.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, just. It ends on a nice note. They all go. And they get. They get.

[Craig]

They go to Good Time Charlie's.

[Andrew]

Is that a real thing?

[Craig]

I looked it up.

[Andrew]

Is this Slime Kings or there's something else?

[Craig]

There's a Good Time Charlie's in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which seems to be different from a different chain restaurant called Good Time Charlie's that may or may not have existed in other towns in the 80s in New Jersey, at least someone on Reddit was sharing a 1982 ad for the Kingston Good Good luck. Good Time Charlie's. I just like that is called Good Time Charlie.

[Andrew]

Good Time Charlie's is it? I guess it sounds like a place where you're gonna have a good time or a bad time. Yeah, I can't tell which one.

[Craig]

There is a moment before they go to Good Time Charlie's where Keisha has shown up, Jesse's cousin and. And her best friend prior to moving to Stony Brook. And there's just some really, like, nice heartwarming like, navigation of that, like, whole deal.

[Andrew]

It's nice. It feels a little bit like an echo of a thing that they already did in, I think, one of the Stacy books. Stacy's New York friend and her, like, reconnected.

[Craig]

You're totally right.

[Andrew]

The diabetes thing.

[Craig]

But, yeah, where Mallory is, like. Mallory is very gracious in. In front of her new best friend, telling Keisha that she is still Jesse's best friend.

[Andrew]

The emotional intelligence on these sixth graders.

[Craig]

Unbelievable.

[Andrew]

And I'm sure. I'm sure that this gets gets weirder the further into the perpetual eighth grade. Yeah, but, like, the emotional age of these kids is already sort of getting Busy.

[Craig]

They become 38 by book 100. Yeah, but they are.

[Andrew]

Because I think. I think Mallory and Jesse are both already acting more mature than like, Christie was in the first book.

[Craig]

You are correct. You are very correct.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And that, you know, some of that's just the difference between kids, but some of it is. Is that they're all Time Lords and they're all just kind of slipping through the time stream.

[Craig]

No. Yeah. It's an interesting thing that comes about where the. Where Martin has introduced these younger characters who are, like, trying to prove themselves, and also these younger characters who have these other. These, like, different family situations and have something to teach the older girls a little bit, you know, which makes them feel older even though they. They know that they're not.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Yeah. So I liked this book a lot. I had a good time.

[Andrew]

It's good.

[Craig]

And I've liked all of these books. I have no complaints.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like, I don't. I think my only. My only complaint about it, even a little bit. And it's not much is, like, it's. It's a pretty frictionless book. I don't think there needs to be friction. And there is a little bit in, like, the Katie Best death situation and that the little prissy girl who yells at Matt and then.

[Craig]

You're totally right later. Yeah.

[Andrew]

But they're just little tiny points of conflict compared to, I think, you know, what. What's been a more, like, noticeable and sustained effort to find, like, an antagonist or, like, a problem to be overcome.

[Craig]

Yep. Yep.

[Andrew]

Like, this. I don't know. Like, it's. It's. It's a mild complaint. And it's not, like, there's not stuff. You know, Jesse has a narrative journey in this book. There. There are. There are things to be learned. There are, you know, needs to be. Needs to be met. And I guess that's. That's where the Conflict that's here is mostly. Mostly coming from. But it's pretty.

[Craig]

It's pretty, like, it's pretty chill.

[Andrew]

And everybody's just, like, very accepting of everything. And it's like, it's. It's cool. And I like a series and a time where that is kind of considered to be the cultural norm. And we don't have to see Jesse deal with, like, parents who don't go to the school. Like, don't have kids in the school system and don't have any kids at all coming in and screaming at them about being woke for having a sign language interpreter.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

At an event like, you know.

[Craig]

Yep. No, you're totally right. Yeah. It's interesting because it seems like the conflict in the book is with more abstract or systemic issues, and Martin has resisted, like, boiling them down to one terrible character, which is like another narrative device you could employ. I think that would make the book a little less interesting, but it also, compared to the other books, it does make it, like, easier.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Maybe not to say that it's like, what Jesse's dealing with is easy, but you're right. There's not a. Like, I think back to the. We have to vanquish this. Of these other bad babysitters.

[Andrew]

We have to vanquish the bad babysitters. Like, we have to vanquish the other girls in the babysitter's club because they're administering a dumb testament. I don't like it.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's totally what it is.

[Andrew]

But it's just like. It's a different. It's a different form for the conflict to take. It's just. It's just the only thing that I kind of noticed as I was reading was like, everything is very kind of placid and smooth and, like, everything kind of works itself out.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

In a way. Which is like. It's, you know, it is a. It is a. It is middle grade fiction for kids. So it's okay because.

[Craig]

Because even, like, contrasting it with. And this. This can be my. My last thought.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we can keep.

[Craig]

I could keep talking about this, but, like, thinking back to the Stacy book where she is, like, dealing with her parents and dealing with quack doctors and things like that. And it's like, how do I tell my parents what I want? Like, that is like, kind of the. One of the conflicts of that book. In this book, Jesse's like, yeah, I have this babysitting gig. I love these kids. I'm gonna learn how to help them. And then I'm gonna just show up at their school and make a bunch of stuff happen. Like that. That scene, while very interesting to me in terms of, like, learning about deaf experience and things like that was a little narratively like. And then we just do this, and then this just happens. If we had to find critiques, I think that's. That's kind of where I'm aligned with you, Andrew, which is just like. And then Jesse can just make stuff happen. She is very competent. And we don't get a sense of what, like, maybe she gets in her own way ever. Whereas, like, I think the other girls get. Martin has drawn them a little bit more like they can get in their own way. So maybe that happens in other books. That. In other Jesse books. So we will not read those, unfortunately, because next time on Sit Me Baby One more time, we will read. Welcome to the bsc Abby. I don't know who Abby is.

[Andrew]

We're gonna find out.

[Craig]

I have no idea. We're Gonna Skip Like 70 books or nearly 70 books, I think is the. Is the deal. Right. This is book 90.

[Andrew]

Yeah. We're moving. I forget which year of. I'll look up which year of eighth grade we're gonna end up in, but it's gonna be deep in the.

[Craig]

Into the reaper, into the time loop. Yeah. Okay. Well, I can't wait to find out what's going on there. That will be our. Our last, like, kind of regular episode on these books. We are planning to watch the 90s movie, as we discussed, and then in one of those two episodes, we will announce our next Long Reach project. Give you the. Give you the scoop.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

You know, as it were. Yeah. So please tune in for those.

[Andrew]

Might be a little silly.

[Craig]

It might be a little silly. Might get a little silly. Thank you to everybody who listened. You can send us an email if you have thoughts on this book or other babysitters books. Overdue podmail.com overdue pod on various social media websites, our theme song is composed by Nick Lauren. Just Andrew. The quick version of. If they want to know more about the show, where do they go?

[Andrew]

Overdue podcast.com our Internet website. You can also go to patreon.com overdue pod if you are hearing this in March of 2025, congratulations. You're already behind the paywall or you found a way past it.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

You've never gonna ask a lot of questions. I would prefer that you not do that. But, you know, whatever, I guess. Honor system. But if you're hearing it sometime after that. Patreon.com oakdoopod is how you get access to these episodes early and of whatever long read project we are we are working on when you hear this and you get access to our Discord community, all kinds of other stuff. Patreon.com overdue pot that's it Andrew Next.

[Craig]

Time we're talking about welcome to the BSC Abbey book 90 of the Babysitters Club. In the meantime, what do we say at the end of every episode of Sit Me Baby One more time?

[Andrew]

I think Christy should call for elections. I think it's, I think it's time to just check in.

[Craig]

That was a Headgum Podcast hi, I'm Drew Offalo. And I'm Dason Afualo, and we host the Headgum Podcast Two Idiot Girls. Each episode we're discussing plenty of topics that you would be giggling at at.

[Andrew]

A sleepover with your weird cousins.

[Craig]

We talk about all kinds of things, like weird dating, horror stories, maybe a really, really bad wedgie you had once, or even a show you're loving and anything in between. So you can listen to two Idiot Girls on your favorite podcast app or watch full video episodes on YouTube. New episodes will be posted every Tuesday.