How to Raise an Imaginative Child — and Why Imagination Matters More Than You Think

Summary

Raising Good Humans — “How to Raise an Imaginative Child — and Why Imagination Matters More Than You Think”

Host: Dr. Aliza Pressman
Guest: Professor Cassandra Vieten, Director of the Center for Human Imagination at UC San Diego
Air Date: July 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Aliza Pressman welcomes Professor Cassandra Vieten, a leading researcher on imagination and the director of the Center for Human Imagination at UCSD. The discussion centers on what imagination truly is, why it matters for children and adults, how parents can foster this essential skill, and the ways in which imagination intertwines with anxiety, creativity, neurodiversity, and our daily family life. The conversation is both practical and philosophical, exploring the science behind imagination and offering hands-on ideas for parents.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Imagination Matters

• Imagination is Underestimated: Prof. Vieten notes that we often see imagination as frivolous, when, in fact, it is a vital skill for emotional, social, and cognitive development.
• A Fundamental Human Strength: Imagination is not just pretend play; it's a tool for problem-solving, empathy, and envisioning new realities.

“The brain doesn't discriminate as much as we might think between what we imagine and what's real.” — Professor Cassandra Vieten (00:00)

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2. Defining Imagination

• Synthesis of Research: The working definition developed at UCSD is:
  "Imagination is the mind’s ability to simulate reality and also to transcend it." (06:55)
  • Simulating reality: Recalling your home, picturing someone's face, or mentally rehearsing a conversation.
  • Transcending reality: Envisioning things never seen or experienced, allowing for innovation and inventive solutions.

"To simulate reality is obviously a huge evolutionary advantage ... and then once we began to be able to go beyond reality, that made us able to find solutions that didn’t look anything like the present reality." — Prof. Vieten (07:57)

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3. The Developmental Arc of Imagination in Children

• Natural in Early Childhood: Young children have porous boundaries between fantasy and reality, which benefits emotional expression and learning.
• Tends to Diminish with Age: As children grow, adults often discourage imagination, urging them to "get serious."
• Practical Parenting Tip: Engage children with imaginative prompts rather than routine questions.

"If there was a superhero at your school, who would it be? … If there was a superpower you wish you had, what would it be?" — Prof. Vieten (04:38)

Timestamps for Parenting Strategies:

• Imaginative prompts for after school: (05:09)
• Dinner table “If today was an animal...” game: (05:31)

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4. Imagination as a Trainable Skill—for All Ages

• It’s a Muscle: Imagination can be re-strengthened, even in adults, through intentional practice and play.
• Shared Exercises: Role play, creative prompts, “imaginary time,” and thought experiments help parents and children bond and build this skill together.

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5. Imagination & Emotional Wellbeing

• Imagination’s Double-Edged Sword: The ability to imagine can also fuel anxiety when directed toward negative outcomes.
• Mindfulness as Balance: Mindfulness helps us notice when we’re creating stories in our minds and allows us to consciously shape the “thread” imagination weaves into our reality.

“Imagination actually makes up a lot of my reality...Part of what a mindfulness or meditation retreat helps you do is disentangle those two threads.” — Prof. Vieten (14:08)

• Empowering Reframes: Choosing to imagine kindness or positive intentions in everyday life (like in traffic) influences mood, physiology, and relationships.

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6. Parenting Tactics to Foster Imagination

• Join, Don’t Interrupt: Meet children where they are, especially teens immersed in fantasy worlds (Harry Potter, anime, etc.)
• ‘Geek Therapy’: Drawing conversation through fictional universes helps kids open up and process emotions.

“If you're Frodo, who's your Sam? ... All of a sudden the kids are talking and talking and talking about all the problems in their lives.” — Prof. Vieten (18:40)

• Thought Experiments: When handling conflict or mistakes, ask kids to brainstorm “three other possibilities” they could have tried, rather than focusing only on consequences. (20:11)

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7. Imagination, Technology, and Screen Time

• The Dilemma: Excessive screen time correlates with lower outcomes in creativity and imagination, but not all screen time is equal.
• Interactive Use Over Passive Consumption: Encourage children to use technology for creative exploration (e.g., finding poems, building paper airplanes, searching for new ideas together).

“Try to move it out of the slot machine mode and move it into... let's build it together.” — Prof. Vieten (22:55)

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8. Neurodiversity and Different “Flavors” of Imagination

• Many Ways to Imagine: Some are vivid visual thinkers, some experience “aphantasia” (no mental imagery), others are storytellers or embodied imagineers.
• Tailor Environments: Notice strengths and support different imaginative styles within the family.

“Some people are very vivid, visual imagineers ... some might be more storytellers ... some more embodied.” — Prof. Vieten (26:27)

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9. Imagination vs. Creativity

• Imagination = Field of Possibility: Mind wandering and envisioning the impossible.
• Creativity = Making Real: Applying imaginative concepts to real life. All creativity springs from imagination, but not all imagination results in creativity.

“Imagination is kind of like, oh, what are you doing just sitting around mind wandering?...That mind wandering is a very, very important part of imagination.” — Prof. Vieten (31:00)

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10. Practical Steps to Encourage Imagination

• Value It: Treat imagination as a core aspect of cognition, not an afterthought.
• Set the Right Conditions: Create internal (free time, quiet, mindfulness) and external (whimsy, color, artifacts) conditions tailored to family members’ personalities.
• Show Curiosity: Dive into children’s interests even when they differ from your own, turning eye rolls into family memories.

“Show your kids that you value it, that it’s not frivolous ... And you’re going to be surprised at how many truths you learn about your kids through those explorations.” — Prof. Vieten (36:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Imagination and Anxiety:
  “If you go through every day imagining the worst that could happen ... your brain is sort of treating it as though those things are already happening.” — Prof. Vieten (09:23)

• On Family Imaginative Play:
  “It’s almost like your own little D&D game at home … it allows you to role play with those things. And what people find is they start to integrate those qualities into their life.” — Prof. Vieten (17:16)

• On Connecting via Children’s Interests:
  “If you can switch that mindset and just be like, tell me more. What does that character do? ... Because you’re not actually asking them about the world. You’re asking them about their minds.” — Prof. Vieten (20:11)

• On Inclusive Environments:
  “Notice what type of imagineer they are, you can play to their strengths. And you can also play to... act out something else with your body. Or, you know, tell me a story about what you just acted out.” — Prof. Vieten (27:44)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:36: Introduction of Professor Vieten and the theme
• 03:45–05:09: Practical ideas for engaging children with imagination
• 06:55–09:16: Defining imagination (simulate vs. transcend reality)
• 09:23–10:52: Imagination and anxiety—brain treats imagined as real
• 13:45–16:22: Mindfulness, reality tapestry, and reframing with imagination
• 17:05–19:19: 'Imaginary time’ and role playing as family practice
• 20:11–21:43: Using imaginative alternatives to handle behavioral issues
• 22:19–24:24: Imagination and screens—active vs. passive technology
• 25:51–28:17: Neurotypes and diversity in imagination
• 30:14–31:15: Imagination versus creativity—and the value of mind wandering
• 33:49–34:47: Empathic imagination—relating to theory of mind
• 35:27–38:35: Environmental and personal conditions for nurturing imagination

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Takeaways for Parents

• Imagination is essential, not extracurricular. It supports not only creative pursuits, but emotional regulation, problem solving, and empathy.
• Join your child’s imaginative worlds. Use fiction, role play, and creative questions to deepen connection and draw out their inner world.
• Reframe behavior challenges as creative puzzles. Encourage “what else could we do” thinking instead of defaulting to discipline.
• Recognize and respect different imaginative styles. There is no one right way to imagine. Support your child’s unique approach.
• Value and model imaginative exploration in your family life. Make space, both literal and figurative, for imagination to flourish—for your children, and for yourself.

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Transcript

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

The brain doesn't discriminate as much as we might think between what we imagine and what's real. So we're already reacting to our imagined scenarios psychologically, physiologically. And so if you go through every day imagining the worst that could happen or worrying about what could go wrong, your brain is sort of treating it as though those things are already happening.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think of imagination as frivolous time or mind wandering? Because it is so important. And today we're talking with the author of Imagine Unlocking the Science of Imagination to transform the way you think and feel. This is with the director of the center for Human Imagination at the University of California, San Diego, and she talks about her original research on the science of imagination, how to grow it, how to keep growing it, because we need it through adulthood, and how to better engage with our kids through imagination. And it's quite a bit different than, I think, the picture that some of us have in our head of what imagination is. So I'm very excited to share with you Professor Cassandra Vitin, so that we can talk about growing our imagination.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

I'm Dr. Eliza Pressman, Developmental psychologist, New York Times best selling author, associate clinical professor at the Icahn School of Medicine, and the host of Ray Amazing Good Humans podcast. I am so glad you're here.

[Podcast Host]

So tell us about imagination.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Well, I have become captivated by the topic of imagination, and I really think it started in childhood. And, you know, when we were growing up, you know, I just loved that kind of pretend play. And then as I got older, I was very interested in science fiction fiction and movies like ET And Close Encounters and things like that. So I had that fascination from early on. And then I went into the field of psychology because I really wanted to help people. And now, you know, 30 years later, I'm coming back to, you know, one thing that really does help people is training their imaginations because it's something that can tend to get a little bit flattened over time. We're really into it with kids to cultivate their imagination often, but as we grow older and as our teenagers become teenagers, we say, you know, oh, now you got to get serious, you know, and we train it out of ourselves. So psychologically, there are ways that imagination helps us. Physically, there are ways that imagination helps us. And interestingly, we don't really continue to train kids in imagination as time goes on.

[Podcast Host]

Well, so let's start with kids, like the developmental trajectory of imagination, because it is true that in early childhood, like I think even any, any parent of young children or parent Remembering young children, they light up when we engage in imaginative play and pretend play. And then, you know, I have had many parents come to me and say, I don't even know how to do that anymore. Like, I don't know how to engage in this imaginative play with my littles. And I think that's one thing I've noticed which makes sense. We like, it's a muscle that doesn't get exercised much. But it's interesting because it's so helpful and beneficial to young children. I wonder in the mind of a parent, like, how can they grow that muscle to help support that skill in their kids and kind of get. You get like a double benefit?

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah, I mean, I think imagination is actually a skill that can be trained just like any other skill. And especially when you've learned something as a child and then you go back to as, as an adult, there are already the pathways there. So it's not quite as hard for you to remember as you might think. And not only is imagination a skill, but it's also kind of a territory of our being. So you can imagine I want to visit the territory of imagination more often. And sometimes it helps when you visit a territory to have a map. You know, what is imagination? What, what does it look like? What language does it speak? What are the different rules in the imaginative realm of our lives? And so, you know, one very practical way to think about this is when your kid gets home from school or when you pick them up, you might say, how was your day every day? And you know, you might be a little frustrated because every day they say, fine. And instead you could be like, hey, I have a question for you. If there was a superhero at your school that was in charge of like taking care of people and doing good, who do you think it would be? And if there was a villain at your school, who do you think it would be? And if there was a superpower that you wish you had, what do you wish you had? And just having those kinds of conversations will often draw your child out a lot more than how was your day?

[Podcast Host]

I love that you're picking your child up anyway. You're getting in the car, let's say, or you're walking. So this isn't like, here's a to do list of 20 things that are going to take extra time in your life. And it's stressed out parents and all that. It's actually built into our interactions and can grow our connection with each other.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah. I mean, at the dinner table, you can sit down and say, all Right. We're going to do one of our exercises tonight, you guys. If today was an animal, what kind of animal would it be and why? And just enliven the dinner table conversation. And what happens is, kids are sort of naturally imaginative. They have a much more porous boundary between the world of fantasy and creativity and the world of reality.

[Podcast Host]

And.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

And so the interesting thing is that there are many truths about our existence, about our feelings and our lives, that are better expressed by creativity and fantasy than they are by linear, logical thinking. So, in a way, you're almost speaking their language when you talk to them in these terms. And they can tell you a lot more about the truths of what it. What their life is like using these imaginative prompts, as opposed to, you know, what did you do today? How did it go? You know, they're sort of like, I don't know, it was fine. But when you say something like, if today were an animal, what would it be? They're like, it would be a tiger. Because, you know, all day long, I felt like I was being chased. And, you know, it really opens up room for conversation.

[Podcast Host]

Just going back for a second, can you just define what imagination is? I know it feels obvious, but I think it might not be.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

I don't think it is. And in fact, even among scientists who study imagination, which are not that, there are long conversations about what imagination is and what it isn't. But one of the things our team did at the Arthur C. Clarke center for Human Imagination at UC San Diego, where I direct the science programs, we took all of the published literature on imagination that we could find, and we reviewed it all and kind of synthesized it into not only a definition of imagination, but also different types of imagination. The definition we came up with was imagination is the mind's ability to simulate reality and also to transcend it. And that's just a great definition because we all know what we mean when we say simulate reality. Like, right now, imagine the house you live in. So you're simulating. You're saying, I'm just building an image of my house in my mind. Maybe you can even go inside and look at the rooms and where they are. For most people, it's going to be a little fuzzy. It's not going to be like a picture of your house, but you get the general gist of where everything is in your house. And then going beyond it is okay. Now imagine a spaceship landing in your front lawn. And all of us can pretty much imagine that, too. Even though it's completely not real, it's nothing we've ever seen, but we can imagine for us what that might look like. So to simulate reality is obviously a huge evolutionary advantage. You know, until imagination came online in people's brains, it was very hard for whoever we were back then, the little fuzzy creatures we were, to predict something or to say, you know, I wonder what's around that corner. I bet it's this, or maybe I shouldn't get in that stream because it's going really fast and it could carry me down. They just couldn't imagine it. Once we started to be able to simulate, we had a lot more tools. And then once we began to be able to go beyond reality, that made us able to find solutions that didn't look anything like the present reality. And that is a hu advancement too, not only for humanity, but for each individual person. To practice being able to simulate reality and to practice being able to go beyond it, to explore possibilities is a core skill.

[Podcast Host]

What is the connection between imagination and anxiety?

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Well, so imagine that the rest of your day from here forward was just going to be super stressful, that you were going to get in a traffic jam on the way home, that you were going to get in an argument with a friend, that your kid was going to come home from school and say, I got beat up today. You can imagine so many things that even right now, if you really let yourself imagine it in a fully embodied way, you would already start to get tense and stressed and cortisol pumping through your system. Because the brain doesn't discriminate as much as we might think between what we imagine and what's real. So we're already reacting to our imagined scenarios psychologically, physiologically. And so if you go through every day imagining the worst that could happen or worrying about what could go wrong, your brain is sort of treating it as though those things are already happening. And it makes you feel anxious, it makes you have long standing anxiety, and it makes it kind of hard for you to be around, frankly. Like it's hard for your family, it's hard for your kids because they can see. Why are you kind of in urgency when nothing's actually happening right now? It's like, well, I'm in urgency because all of this stuff is happening in my head.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

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[Podcast Host]

It's so interesting because like the skill of imagination, I mean, I'm in a very creative town and there are a lot of people who are adults who get to use their imagination all the time because I'm in Los Angeles and also all of my friends who are super creative and imaginative have a side of them that can go too far into predicting a future and imagining things and telling themselves stories that can bend pretty anxious. So I'm curious, like if you, if you have this skill natural and you've like kept it, what is a way to harness it for good versus the imagine the parts of imagination that are kind of making you imagine the worst case scenarios?

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Well, as you know, one of my other longstanding research and clinical interests has been mindfulness. And so it's kind of interesting because mindfulness in a way is learning how to notice how much you are imagining. It's not so much to make you stop imagining. It's just to notice. I am making that up versus I am observing that through my senses, through my eyes, through my nose, through my ears, through my mouth. Like, I am present with what actually is, and I'm going to rest in what actually is. That's kind of the definition of mindfulness. But part of that is noticing. Look at how when I'm sitting here resting in just what is. I'm still thinking about making dinner. I'm still thinking about the thing that I said yesterday that I thought was dumb. I'm still thinking about 10 years ago, somebody who bummed me out. You know, these things are kind of always going through my mind. And so you start to notice, wow. Imagination actually makes up a lot of my reality. And so in my forthcoming book, the Imagine that how you can transform how you think, feel, and live through the science of imagination, I talk about the reality tapestry. And so if you imagine that, two threads weave together to make up your perception of reality. One is what's actually happening, just unembellished. The other is what you imagine about everything that's happening. And they really do weave together to form your reality. Part of what a mindfulness or meditation retreat helps you do is disentangle those two threads. But it doesn't say, get rid of the imagination thread. It actually says, how would you like your thread to be? Would you prefer to weave into your life kindness? Giving people a chance, Giving things the benefit of the doubt? We're in a traffic jam. But you know what? Probably everybody's kind of doing their best here. Nobody's an idiot. We're just all here trying to get home or trying to get to work.

[Podcast Host]

Work.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

You can choose to imagine good intentions on the part of most people, or you can choose to imagine negative intentions on the part of most people. And that one single pattern of imagining will change your entire outlook, your physiology, even probably aging. You know, things like that are highly influenced by how you choose to imagine. So you can start to get some empowerment about how you choose to imagine, and that can change how you perceive reality.

[Podcast Host]

I think it's such an interesting. And it makes so much sense to me that you would study mindfulness and study imagination. It totally aligns because it's part of thinking about paying attention and having these intentions, but like opening and expanding the possibilities of what you're thinking about.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

How do we notice what our kids are growing in these skills? Like what? What are the Points at which we can not interrupt, but kind of notice where their imaginations are starting to unfold and keep expanding it versus stopping it.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah, exactly. Well, another easy one would be to say, okay, everybody's doing homework, everybody's watching tv, they're on social media, and you just spend a half hour every afternoon slash evening, maybe it's right after dinner or right before and say, okay, everything goes away. All screens. And we're gonna do imaginary time. You know, okay, we live in a castle. Who do you want to be in the castle? I'm going to be the knight, I'm going to be the queen. I'm going to be the king. I'm going to be the warrior, you know, okay, what happens next? You know, it's almost like your own little D and D game at home that you don't even have to learn how to play D and D. But I guarantee you. Yeah, oh my gosh, it's a total revival of D and D. I tell you, women my age are like, I'm going to my women's D and D group tonight. Oh my God. And I'll tell you, there's actually some incredible science showing that even for adults, that kind of interactive role playing game can help people learn to navigate social situations. It can help people who feel lonely, who feel insecure, who feel lack of confidence. You know, if you're someone who's kind of introverted and feel awkward, but then all of a sudden you are the warrior or you are the dragon or whatever it is, it allows you to role play with those things. And what people find is they start to integrate those qualities into their life. In fact, there's something called geek therapy that has been used often with kids, with teenagers and younger kids, kids who you couldn't really get them to talk at all. These geek therapists, and they're certified to be geek therapists, will talk to them like, hey, do you like Harry Potter? Do you like anime? And they'll be like, you know, no, I'm totally into Lord of the Rings. And you'll say, great, okay, so who's. If you're Frodo, you know, who's your Sam? Who's your. The guy who, who's the friend that always sticks with you? And who would you say is the wizard in your life and who would you like? They just start going into it with them and all of a sudden the kids are talking and talking and talking about all the problems in their lives and all the issues because they went in through that doorway.

[Podcast Host]

That is so Cool. Because parents can do that. Anybody can do that. And I've never heard of geek therapy. That's wild. Okay, so that's another way in is not only not interrupting their imagination, but joining them. And one of the ways that we talk about connecting with teenagers in particular, but generally, if you're struggling is to meet them where they are and have them come to you with what gets them excited, what lights them up. And one of the complaints that parents have is sometimes, you know, my. My kid is obsessed with Harry Potter, but I'm not interested in Harry Potter. And I think it's such a missed opportunity because of exactly what you're saying. It's not geek therapy, but it is like a way in through this imaginative, beautiful content. If you could just find a way to connect with it.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah. And if you can just use, like, genuine curiosity. You know, sometimes as a parent, you're like, oh, my God, please stop talking about this. I don't want to hear any more about this. But, you know, if you can switch that mindset and just be like, tell me more. What does that character do? What are they into? Why are they like that? How does that work? Because you're not actually asking them about the world. You're asking them about their minds. They're trying to tell you something about their experience and their minds by the things that they get into the spandom around. And. And then I want to say it's not only fantasy. You can do simple thought experiments. Like, you know, let's say your kid knocked down someone at school, and they come home and they were like, you know, I had to. He was yelling at my friend. He was bullying my friend. You know, instead of punishing them or instead of, like, drawing consequences, you could be like, all right, I need you to write three other possibilities that you could have done in that moment. What are three possibilities you could have done in that moment other than that? And at first, they'll say there was no other possibility. Nothing. It was either take it or. Or knock them down. And it's like, no, I want you even come up with any three other possibilities that's so much better than, hey, you're in a timeout or you don't get your phone this afternoon, it's like, as soon as you give me those written three possibilities that were different than that, then that's what I needed from you. So you're actually giving them real, real possibilities that they could have, and they have to stretch their mind as they think about that.

[Podcast Host]

I love, love that. Okay, so what about video games, let's say, like, where does imagination? And I think this is one that's harder for me because my kids were not into video games, so I did not have that challenge. But the kids who are parents are like, I don't even understand this world. And I think video games are bad. So how to. And it's screen time and they get really. It's fraught. And I wonder if there's a way to incorporate imagination and supporting imagination, even if it's with that kind of context.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a debate in the literature right now. I mean, the preponderance of the evidence shows that the more screen time there is, the less well kids score on multiple outcomes. Health, you know, social capacity, imagination, creativity, all this stuff. However, on the other hand, there is some minority of data that show that even social media or phone use can be a form of extended mind wandering and extended imagination. I mean, back to my childhood, you know, it was like, I'm not going to be able to find this out until we go to the library on Friday. Like, you had to wait to find stuff out. It's hard for kids today to imagine that you couldn't just turn to your phone and find out anything. So unless you're going to ban these things in your home and you're going to accept them as a choice that you allow your kids to make within limits, then you can look at are they using it more like somebody sitting at a slot machine where it's just like, dopamine hit, dopamine hit, dopamine hit. And you know they're paying and you know the house always wins. That's not a great use of social media or video games. So what you can do instead is try to move it out of the slot machine mode and move it into, hey, can you use your phone right now? Would you mind going to find me three things online that are different ways to do build a paper airplane. And you know, after a while your kid might catch on, but you know, at least you can start to be like, let's find online how to build a paper airplane and then let's build it together, right? That's the great use of social media is like, please go find a poem online that describes how you feel right now and I'm going to do the same thing and then let's share it with each other. Those are great uses of social media. Of course your kid's going to be rolling their eyes, but I'll tell you, they might remember it a month later. A year later or even as an adult. Like, my mom used to make me find poems online and I hated it so much. But now I'm so glad that she did that, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Anytime you can make it, an interactive experience is going to bolster the opportunities that you have to connect. And it does exist. So I do like the conversation of. Okay. There's a difference between slot machine use and really engaging together, which then turns into a memory.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I also don't mind eye rolls because I feel like, I mean, I don't like getting eye rolls, but I think our kids are going to eye roll.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And then they're still going to remember it still was something that, you know. So I don't mind that. I like to sometimes pretend I didn't see the eye roll.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Because I don't want to have to react to it. Yeah.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Well.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

And it really ends up being your own mindfulness and self regulation as a parent, just being able to say like, you know, I don't know everything. But I'm pretty sure that what I'm asking you to do is better than just scrolling and, you know, and then also giving them a time limit. Like it's. We check out as adults, they get to check out. It's like, check out for 30 minutes. But then I want you to bring your phone and let's go both look up a poem and share it with each other.

[Podcast Host]

Let's talk about the diversity of imagination. Because you have so many, you know, ways that we can look at this and sometimes our imagination is not there yet to know all of these diversity of opportunities.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah. Well, first of all, it looks like there really is a neurodiversity of imagination, not necessarily meaning the neurodiversity that we talk about on the autism spectrum, although it could be, but more about brain diversity and the way people imagine. So some people are very vivid, visual, embellished imagineers. I mean, you may have a kid who's just like, I was in a castle and there was hay and there was a horse and he was eating it and then he turned and started talking. Like very, very detailed worlds where you might have another kid where you're like, hey, let's imagine we're in a castle. And they're like, can't see anything. And that's not bad for the second kid. It probably means they have a different form of imagination. So there are people who are called aphantasic and that means they don't have pictures in their head. And some of our greatest geniuses are aphantasic. They can't picture things. So when I go back to saying, picture the house you live in. There's one professor at UCSD called, named Craig Venter who discovered how he actually just passed away. So honor him. But he figured out how to sequence the human genome. And he's, he said he's not able to picture things in his head. He was not able to do that. He knew that his house existed. He just didn't see any visual images of it. But he says because of that inability to visualize, he had to find other ways to imagine. And because he had to strengthen diagramming logic, these other kinds of imagination, he was able to figure out how to sequence the genome. And so some of your kids might be more storytellers. There's not a lot of images, but they can tell a story like nobody's business. Some of them might be more embodied imagineers. Like every single time they tell you something, they're like, I thought about punching that guy. You know, like they're always moving their bodies. And so if you can notice what type of imagineer they are, you can play to their strengths. And you can also kind of play to, hey, I noticed that you acted that out with your body. Let's act out something else with your body. Or, you know, tell me a story about what you just acted out. Where did it start, what happened next, what happened at the end and kind of play with the different styles of imagination.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

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[Podcast Host]

Is there any research on imagination and the more highly sensitive temperaments?

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

I don't think so. I would love to see it. I mean, it may be out there, but I haven't seen it yet. And honestly, there's a ton of research on creativity. There's not that much on imagination. And the difference really is imagination is kind of going into the field of possibility, like everything that is possible and everything that's impossible. And the more time you can spend in that field of possibility, that's when you might bring back an idea and say, wait a minute, this idea, this could actually help people. Or this could become something real. And as soon as you start to make it into something real, that's where creativity comes in. So creativity gets a lot of attention, but imagination is kind of like, oh, what are you doing just sitting around mind wandering? You know, get to work, do something. Well, that mind wandering is very, very important part of imagination. And in fact, the rush to creativity can sometimes inhibit imagination.

[Podcast Host]

So is imagination required for creativity or are they separate?

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

A question that comes up all the time now for me is AI is it creative? And, you know, if you've used it and you've made one of those crazy memes about yourself, or you've asked it to make a poem about your life or something, you're like, whoa, that's amazing. It's so creative. But really what AI is doing is, you know, very much synthesizing information that's already exists and just putting it into new, sometimes amazing synthesis. But I tend to think that the human advantage is going to be that we can go beyond synthesizing what's already there. So creating without imagination would be copying something else, you know, making something, but just adding one little tiny thing to it, right? So you imagine all of the knockoffs of iPhones. That's creativity. Steve Jobs had imagination. He was like, we're gonna make something that nobody has ever seen before. And everyone around him was like, that's impossible. And he's like, yeah, that's why we're gonna do it. So, you know, that's an extreme example, but giving your kids and yourself time to mind wander, to think of things that are beyond the possible, and then to bring back a little nugget and say, oh, this might actually help in us figuring out how to get the chores done at home. Or in, you know, there's. There are practical applications of imaginative concepts because most of them have like a little tiny nugget of truth in them.

[Podcast Host]

It is so interesting. As we're talking about this, I'm thinking about. I think of my younger daughter as being more creative and imaginative because she is attuned and she's an artist and she fits the, I don't know, whatever my image was of it before. But as you're talking about it, I'm thinking my older daughter, who was like, such. Talk about geek therapy. She was like, you know, to this day she'll read Harry Potter to just soothe herself.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Right? Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

She's a physics geek and she thinks, she thinks about, you know, like, her favorite movies would be Interstellar.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

And I'm realizing, like, she's so imaginative and it has led to incredible problem solving skills.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

I have kind of confused creativity and imagination a little bit. And also the point about the divergence, like, or the diversity of imagination, because they both are imaginative, creative people. But it's is a totally different flavor.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Exactly. Different flavors. And I don't know how you are. Maybe you are very socially imaginative that you can imagine what's going on with another person or what they might be feeling or thinking. So there's this empathic form of imagination where people are really good at imagining what somebody else might be going through or imagining what someone else might be thinking. That's a totally valid form of imagination. They might not be able to draw a face to face. Yeah, right. But. But that's an incredible skill, is to be like, I can pretty much imagine what other people are going through.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I was also thinking about the development of theory of mind.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

I'm saying this not for you, but for the benefit of everybody else, but understanding the mental state of other people, and we start to see that, you know, emerge around age 4. But how interesting if you notice in your kids and you grow that skill in your kids, that it's stretching imagination skills.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Are there barriers to imagination, developmental barriers or divergent brain barriers, like. Or are we sort of. Do we need to be more imaginative about how the brain works?

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah, I mean, I think there are really A few ways to cultivate imagination in your household or in yourself. One is just to notice it as a fundamental feature of cognition, an important feature of cognition. It's not just for Disney and, you know, stories and stuff like that. It's actually a fundamental way that we all think. Memory uses imagination, planning uses imagination, empathy uses imagination, solution, decision making, all of it. The second is to create the conditions within yourself that make it more likely for your imagination to want to come through. And not surprisingly, those are feelings of spaciousness, of giving yourself more free time, unscheduled time, being in nature, you know, all of the obvious things. But it also can even just be in your environment, like in your room, have more whimsical things in your house. Paint the walls different colors. You know, make a more external, inviting place for imagination to run free. Show your kids that you value it, that you value their imaginations, that it's not frivolous, you know, Tell me more about that story you were just telling. Is there really a teddy bear in the back room? Who is he? What's his name? What's he doing? Like, just go for it. And you're going to be surprised at how many truths you learn about your kids through those explorations.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I feel like it's just reminding me of households where we get so, like, stuck on everything having order, which for some people, like my sister, needs a lot of order in order for her to be able to think with her imagination. She says otherwise, she's too distracted. And. And I don't even notice if there's. Like, I. I just don't notice things. They don't get in my space. I guess I maybe don't just, like, the visual world doesn't bother me in the same way, or it doesn't crowd me in the same way as it does for her. And I find it so interesting because if you looked at her space, like her office, for example, you would think there is no imagination happening.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Right?

[Podcast Host]

It's so stark. But I think it's actually, she has an enormous capacity for imagination, and it is too overwhelmed by the visual stuff. So she has to set up to your point, like, the conditions for her particular brain and body in order for her to have that capacity. And I probably would be the exact opposite. Like when you were describing giving color and texture to your environment, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, I don't even notice. But, like, that does help light me up. And so really recognizing what the conditions are uniquely for us to support that and for our kids is such a helpful reminder.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Yeah, absolutely. So it's valuing imagination as something that is important and a skill that you can train in a territory that you can spend more time in for. And it's valuable. Number two, creating the internal conditions for imagination, quiet, even mindfulness practice. Even though it's kind of like disentangling imagination, it's that that spaciousness inside allows for more ideas to come through. Most people will say they have their best ideas, like in the shower or on a walk or when they're really not trying to attack the issue and then creating the external cond that, as you say for you, are conducive to imagination.

[Podcast Host]

I love that. Thank you so much.

[Professor Cassandra Vitin]

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

[Dr. Eliza Pressman]

Thank you for joining me for this conversation. Please stick around and subscribe to this channel for more episodes and practical content that you can learn from and use in your parenting in real time. Watch the next video here or sign up for my Sub stack newsletter at drelizapressman substack. Com and consider becoming a paid subscriber for access to Me Live each month in our subscriber Q and A.